Michelle Fisher Young - Wednesday Dec 10 thru dec. 14

[Lindsey]

Let's see if we can start a new thread now.

[Lindsey]

Bringing over the link to a new story posted today on ABC News.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=6427041&page=1

This part is especially interesting to me.

Wake County Assistant District Attorney Howard Cummings said that explaining why Jason Young has not been charged would require revealing evidence that he's not allowed to comment on.

Cummings said Stephens' ruling would not further his office's investigation into Jason Young because it was based largely on police statements, which the District Attorney's Office has already reviewed. He also declined to comment on when or whether charges in Michelle Young's murder would be forthcoming.

[alter ego]

That is interesting Lindsey.

It's maddening that they can't comment. I sure would like to know for certain what is preventing them from bringing charges.

And I hope the display of Spivey's obvious bias doesn't prevent the DA from bringing charges or getting a conviction.

[Lindsey]

It's all going to come out sometimes and IMO it's past time. Somebody is getting away with murder and that's just not right.

Justice for Michelle means arresting and convicting the person who killed her, whoever that may be.

BBL

[MerriMent]

That is interesting Lindsey.

It's maddening that they can't comment. I sure would like to know for certain what is preventing them from bringing charges.

And I hope the display of Spivey's obvious bias doesn't prevent the DA from bringing charges or getting a conviction.

I think there is evidence that can't be tied to Jason or Meredith and there is also evidence Jason never left the hotel.

[alter ego]

I think there is evidence that can't be tied to Jason or Meredith and there is also evidence Jason never left the hotel.
Don't tell Spivey, his mind is made up.

[Kat4Eagles]

Let's see if we can start a new thread now.


Thank you, Lin and CW.
:)

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

It's all going to come out sometimes and IMO it's past time. Somebody is getting away with murder and that's just not right.

Justice for Michelle means arresting and convicting the person who killed her, whoever that may be.

BBL


Killer or killers must have nerves of steel..

Kat

[MerriMent]

Don't tell Spivey, his mind is made up.

his mind is closed. No wonder this case hasn't been solved.

[annalyzer]

Bringing over the link to a new story posted today on ABC News.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=6427041&page=1

This part is especially interesting to me.

Wake County Assistant District Attorney Howard Cummings said that explaining why Jason Young has not been charged would require revealing evidence that he's not allowed to comment on.

Cummings said Stephens' ruling would not further his office's investigation into Jason Young because it was based largely on police statements, which the District Attorney's Office has already reviewed. He also declined to comment on when or whether charges in Michelle Young's murder would be forthcoming.



This case gets stranger by the day, er, I mean year. :unsure:

[Barbara2]

BARD is pretty universal in meaning.

I think what gets in the way is the confusion of suspicion with inference. From everything that has been released, I can see why there has been no indictment.

There certainly is reason to have suspicions that Jason killed Michelle. But suspicion won't sustain a charge let alone a conviction.

Thank you. This is an honest response without the nonsense that come with many. I appreciate your honesty and candor.

[Kat4Eagles]

This case gets stranger by the day, er, I mean year. :unsure:

This is another link to a story posted at WRAL today, concerning trials.

This killer was in custody 24 hours after the slaying, but it took 4 1/2
years to get to trial, now this is also outside the big cities there, but, wow.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/wral_investigates/story/4115489/


In Wake County, it is an average of 13 months or 403 days of cases pending.

Rarely does a defendant come in and ask for a speedy trial, says Colin Willoughby.
Kat

[alter ego]

I also saw where the ADA is not going after the DP for Brad Cooper because they didn't have proof of any mitigating circumstances. I know I had a lively conversation w/someone here about that and altho 1st degree murder can be punished by death, it still requires proof of aggravating circumstances.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1321657.html

So....the question remains IF Jason murdered Michelle and IF he is ever charged, will the DP be sought and what aggravating circumstance(s) will be cited?

[Kat4Eagles]

It goes on to say, that the longer that defense lawyers are to delay a murder trial,
it is more likely it is to weaken the state's case, Willoughby says.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

I also saw where the ADA is not going after the DP for Brad Cooper because they didn't have proof of any mitigating circumstances. I know I had a lively conversation w/someone here about that and altho 1st degree murder can be punished by death, it still requires proof of aggravating circumstances.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1321657.html

So....the question remains IF Jason murdered Michelle and IF he is ever charged, will the DP be sought and what aggravating circumstance(s) will be cited?


Do you think the fact that C was left behind alone be considered an aggravating factor?

Kat
I know this case is aggravating me.

[Kat4Eagles]

I was trying to think of one word to describe this case.

Endless, is what comes to mind.

What would yours be?

Kat

[annalyzer]

I also saw where the ADA is not going after the DP for Brad Cooper because they didn't have proof of any mitigating circumstances. I know I had a lively conversation w/someone here about that and altho 1st degree murder can be punished by death, it still requires proof of aggravating circumstances.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1321657.html

So....the question remains IF Jason murdered Michelle and IF he is ever charged, will the DP be sought and what aggravating circumstance(s) will be cited?

At this point I couldn't care less whether the murderer of Michelle got the death penalty or LWOP. I just want the murderer(s) arrested, tried, convicted and in prison.

[Hey Paula]

North Carolina capital punishment aggravating factors:

North Carolina-
(1)The murder was especially heinous, atrocious, cruel or depraved (or involved torture)
(2) The capital offense was committed during the commission of, attempt of, or escape from a specified felony (such as robbery, kidnapping, rape, sodomy, arson, oral copulation, train wrecking, carjacking, criminal gang activity, drug dealing, or aircraft piracy)
(3)The murder was part of a course of conduct in which the defendant engaged
(4) The defendant knowingly created a grave risk of death for one or more persons in addition to the victim of the offense
(5) The murder was committed for pecuniary gain or pursuant to an agreement that the defendant would receive something of value
(6) The murder was committed to avoid or prevent arrest, to effect an escape, or to conceal the commission of a crime
(7) The capital offense was committed to interfere with the lawful exercise of any government function or the enforcement of the laws
(8) The defendant has been convicted of, or committed, a prior murder, a felony involving violence, or other serious felony
(9) The capital offense was committed by a person who is incarcerated, has escaped, is on probation, is in jail, or is under a sentence of imprisonment
(10) The victim was a government employee, including peace officers, police officers, federal agents, firefighters, judges, jurors, defense attorneys, and prosecutors, in the course of his or her duties
(11)The murder was committed against a witness against the defendant while engaged in the performance of his official duties

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/aggravating-factors-capital-punishment-state

North Carolina fetal homicide law:


N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14-18.2 relates to injury to pregnant woman. The law states that any person, who in the commission of a felony, causes injury to a woman, knowing the woman to be pregnant, in which injury results in the miscarriage or stillbirth by the woman is guilty of a felony that is one class higher than the felony committed.

http://www.ncsl.org/programs/health/fethom.htm

AE,

Do you think Nos 1, 4 and 5 might apply?

[alter ego]

No Paula, I do not think any of those are aggravating circumstances in this case.

And NC does not have a fetal homicide law.

[Hey Paula]

No Paula, I do not think any of those are aggravating circumstances in this case.

And NC does not have a fetal homicide law.

Thanks for your reply, AE.

I thought that although JY didn't pursue the proceeds from the LIP, that it would nevertheless be viewed as a motive, given the circumstances of his alibi not being ironclad. I also felt that due to the number of wounds Michelle sustained, and that the murder was committed while Cassidy was home, that #1 might apply.

Re NC Fetal Homicide Law:

Do you mean that the law wasn't in effect in 2006? The link I posted was updated in 2008 and reads that there are FHLs in the following states:

Currently, at least 36 states have fetal homicide laws. The states include: Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Nebraska, Nevada, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia and Wisconsin. At least 19 states have fetal homicide laws that apply to the earliest stages of pregnancy ("any state of gestation," "conception," "fertilization" or "post-fertilization"), indicated below with an asterisk (*).

[annalyzer]

There is a difference between Laci's law and the fetal homicide law?

I'll go google.

[annalyzer]

There is a difference between Laci's law and the fetal homicide law?

I'll go google.

Under Laci and Connor law the death of the fetus would be a seperate offense.

[Kat4Eagles]

At this point I couldn't care less whether the murderer of Michelle got the death penalty or LWOP. I just want the murderer(s) arrested, tried, convicted and in prison.

Me too, it is taking forever.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

This also does not sound too promising.

From the article at WRAL today:

Referring to time going by in a murder case.....

"You can't find a witness,you lose a piece of evidence,someone's
memory is unfaulty or uncertain.
Passage of time usually works in the favor of the defendant."

Then Willoughby goes on to say ,and I find this interesting.
"The personailty of the D A's also plays a role, some are more willing to accept a plea offer than others"

Hmm.

Kat

[Barbara2]

This also does not sound too promising.

From the article at WRAL today:

Referring to time going by in a murder case.....

"You can't find a witness,you lose a piece of evidence,someone's
memory is unfaulty or uncertain.
Passage of time usually works in the favor of the defendant."

Then Willoughby goes on to say ,and I find this interesting.
"The personailty of the D A's also plays a role, some are more willing to accept a plea offer than others"

Hmm.

Kat

I seriously doubt that the murderer has requested a plea deal at this point since he has yet to be indicted/arrested. JMO

[Kat4Eagles]

I seriously doubt that the murderer has requested a plea deal at this point since he has yet to be indicted/arrested. JMO

I didn't have anyone special in mind when I posted that, just a concept of what is going on within the system.

Kat

[Hey Paula]

Bringing over the link to a new story posted today on ABC News.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=6427041&page=1

This part is especially interesting to me.

Wake County Assistant District Attorney Howard Cummings said that explaining why Jason Young has not been charged would require revealing evidence that he's not allowed to comment on.

Cummings said Stephens' ruling would not further his office's investigation into Jason Young because it was based largely on police statements, which the District Attorney's Office has already reviewed. He also declined to comment on when or whether charges in Michelle Young's murder would be forthcoming.



I think the evidence DA Cummings is referring to is the same evidence Det Spivey submitted to Judge Stephens which, if made public now, might jeopardize their case.

I believe JY will be charged, but only at a time when the DA believes it will serve in a successful prosecution and result in a conviction.

IMO

[achristie]

I think the evidence DA Cummings is referring to is the same evidence Det Spivey submitted to Judge Stephens which, if made public now, might jeopardize their case.

I believe JY will be charged, but only at a time when the DA believes it will serve in a successful prosecution and result in a conviction.

IMO

Nice to see you, Paula. Always the voice of reason.
I agree that JY will be charged EVENTUALLY.
Some earlier discussion about the death penalty.
I'm so torn about that. Are you? Ever since reading Sister Helen Prejean her words have haunted me.

MOO Aggie

[annalyzer]

I think the evidence DA Cummings is referring to is the same evidence Det Spivey submitted to Judge Stephens which, if made public now, might jeopardize their case.

I believe JY will be charged, but only at a time when the DA believes it will serve in a successful prosecution and result in a conviction.

IMO

But what will more time give him to get a successful conviction? I'm thinking the more time that elapses the less successful he will be.

[Lindsey]

I think the evidence DA Cummings is referring to is the same evidence Det Spivey submitted to Judge Stephens which, if made public now, might jeopardize their case.

I believe JY will be charged, but only at a time when the DA believes it will serve in a successful prosecution and result in a conviction.

IMO


Or he could be referring to something that doesn't point to Jason at all. That would certainly explain why he hasn't been arrested. It could even be the therapist's notes.

IMO

[Lindsey]

But what will more time give him to get a successful conviction? I'm thinking the more time that elapses the less successful he will be.

Hi Anna.

I'm thinking the same. The longer this goes on, the less hope I have of ever seeing justice for Michelle.

[Hey Paula]

Nice to see you, Paula. Always the voice of reason.
I agree that JY will be charged EVENTUALLY.
Some earlier discussion about the death penalty.
I'm so torn about that. Are you? Ever since reading Sister Helen Prejean her words have haunted me.

MOO Aggie

Hi there Aggie!

It's always a pleasure to see you too, my dear!

I haven't read Sister Helen's thoughts re the DP. Are they posted on the internet or have you read one of her books?

As for myself, I feel LWOP is often the best punishment, i.e., poetic justice, especially for those who choose murder as a means to obtain personal freedom and/or to enrich themselves.

[Kat4Eagles]

Or he could be referring to something that doesn't point to Jason at all. That would certainly explain why he hasn't been arrested. It could even be the therapist's notes.

IMO

Wouldn't that be something?

If we were to make a list of all they have that we know of, there is no way there is not enough there to indict.

And, yet they don't.

Or maybe, they can't.

Kat

[achristie]

But what will more time give him to get a successful conviction? I'm thinking the more time that elapses the less successful he will be.

Anna, I think that may hold true for the small cadre of people that have followed this case since day one. MOST people are not like US. A jury comes in cold, listens to the facts that are presented, then makes their decision. To me, the more time it takes doesn't necessarily translate to less success. We have eaten just about every morsel, rumor and fact, for a VERY long time. We have angst and yearning and questions BECAUSE we have stuck with it since day 1. Not so for an unbiased jury. In fact, not one of us would make good jurists on this case. Something to think about.

MOO Aggie

[Kat4Eagles]

Hi Anna.

I'm thinking the same. The longer this goes on, the less hope I have of ever seeing justice for Michelle.



It just should not be taking be this long.

That is why when someone writes this case is a slam dunk, and an arrest is imminent, I have to wonder what case they are following.!!

The biggest thing in Jason's favor, to me, is that there is no motive .


Kat

[Barbara2]

Anna, I think that may hold true for the small cadre of people that have followed this case since day one. MOST people are not like US. A jury comes in cold, listens to the facts that are presented, then makes their decision. To me, the more time it takes doesn't necessarily translate to less success. We have eaten just about every morsel, rumor and fact, for a VERY long time. We have angst and yearning and questions BECAUSE we have stuck with it since day 1. Not so for an unbiased jury. In fact, not one of us would make good jurists on this case. Something to think about.

MOO Aggie

Excellent point! (I looked for an icon but none were appropriate. Just pretend. :wineglass: )

[Barbara2]

It just should not be taking be this long.

<snipped>

The biggest thing in Jason's favor, to me, is that there is no motive .


Kat

I know you said that you followed the Laci Peterson case and you believed all along that he was guilty. What did you see as his motive? I don't see a lot of difference in the two cases in terms of circumstances so I'm curious.

[Hey Paula]

Or he could be referring to something that doesn't point to Jason at all. That would certainly explain why he hasn't been arrested. It could even be the therapist's notes.

IMO

I think the therapist's notes might perhaps refer to a transgender issue Michelle might have learned about, which LE might feel was motive for her murder, given the proximity of the disclosure to her death. A search of "gay bars in NYC" was found on JY's computer.

IMO

[Lindsey]

It just should not be taking be this long.

That is why when someone writes this case is a slam dunk, and an arrest is imminent, I have to wonder what case they are following.!!

The biggest thing in Jason's favor, to me, is that there is no motive .


Kat

I think they can't place him at the scene or even they can't prove he actually left the hotel that night. Walking down the hall toward the exit door doesn't mean anything if it doesn't show him going outside. The stairs are in the same direction he is walking too ... not just the exit.

I also think they might have evidence from the crime scene that does not fit Jason and they can't explain that.

JMO

[Kat4Eagles]

I know you said that you followed the Laci Peterson case and you believed all along that he was guilty. What did you see as his motive? I don't see a lot of difference in the two cases in terms of circumstances so I'm curious.

1) Scott lied every time he opened his mouth.
2) Scott told Amber Laci was dead, before she was.
3) Scott pretended to be in Paris with Francois and Pasquale.
4) Scott did not want to be a Father.
5) Scott pretended to be something he wasn't.

And, now he is right where he should be.

Kat

[Lindsey]

I think the therapist's notes might perhaps refer to a transgender issue Michelle might have learned about, which LE might feel was motive for her murder, given the proximity of the disclosure to her death. A search of "gay bars in NYC" was found on JY's computer.

IMO

You could be right. But I remember pages and pages and pages of discussion here that it was the luck of the draw that Michelle got a therapist who specializes in those issues.

I'm somewhat confused about the gay bars in NYC search since it was Michelle that went to NY several times a year. Jason sometimes went with her but she most often went alone or with her sister. I wish we knew when those searches were done.

IMO

[annalyzer]

Anna, I think that may hold true for the small cadre of people that have followed this case since day one. MOST people are not like US. A jury comes in cold, listens to the facts that are presented, then makes their decision. To me, the more time it takes doesn't necessarily translate to less success. We have eaten just about every morsel, rumor and fact, for a VERY long time. We have angst and yearning and questions BECAUSE we have stuck with it since day 1. Not so for an unbiased jury. In fact, not one of us would make good jurists on this case. Something to think about.

MOO Aggie


Oh I understand what you're saying. But unless one can't be a juror if they've read newspaper stories about the case I think many of us would be good jurists on this case.

[Barbara2]

1) Scott lied every time he opened his mouth.
2) Scott told Amber Laci was dead, before she was.
3) Scott pretended to be in Paris with Francois and Pasquale.
4) Scott did not want to be a Father.
5) Scott pretended to be something he wasn't.

And, now he is right where he should be.

Kat

A lot of those same things apply to Jason except the part about lying everytime he opens his mouth (since those incidences are not public). I still fail to see the gigantic difference in the two cases. Well there is one. Jason does have a child. But in both cases, the mothers were killed while carrying a male child. (More similarities than differences, IMO)

[Kat4Eagles]

I think they can't place him at the scene or even they can't prove he actually left the hotel that night. Walking down the hall toward the exit door doesn't mean anything if it doesn't show him going outside. The stairs are in the same direction he is walking too ... not just the exit.

I also think they might have evidence from the crime scene that does not fit Jason and they can't explain that.

JMO

Yep, and I keep thinking about those darn keys and why they deemed necessary to be entered in the search warrant!!

Makes no sense, that is something you would bring up in trial when questioning a witness on the stand, not a s/w.!!

It seems more like a pre~emptive defensive strike!

Think about it!!

Kat

[Lindsey]

I knew that Michelle had gone to NY less than two weeks before she was murdered but I didn't realize it was a business trip. Did Michelle often have to travel on business?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/Story?id=6427041&page=4

[Barbara2]

You could be right. But I remember pages and pages and pages of discussion here that it was the luck of the draw that Michelle got a therapist who specializes in those issues.

I'm somewhat confused about the gay bars in NYC search since it was Michelle that went to NY several times a year. Jason sometimes went with her but she most often went alone or with her sister. I wish we knew when those searches were done.

IMO

Maybe he was looking for something to do those times he did go to New York.

[annalyzer]

Yep, and I keep thinking about those darn keys and why they deemed necessary to be entered in the search warrant!!

Makes no sense, that is something you would bring up in trial when questioning a witness on the stand, not a s/w.!!

Think about it!!

Kat

I want to read those again. Anyone have the links handy?

[kingbuff]

Another reason the police hesitate to arrest anyone in this case is because of what they don't know. If the police discarded Cassidy's supposedly bloody socks as unimportant to the investigation, perhaps they missed something important. Was that really blood on the socks? Were the footprints made from blood or from some other red substance? Were they really Casidy's prints? Of course, I don't know. On another board someone said the police didn't test the prints nor the socks. I don't know if that is true, but I have heard the police bungled the initial investigation so they are wary of what the private investigators found. Perhaps that explains the strange baseless ridicule and insults on the boards whenever the private investigators are mentioned. They're afraid of the PIs. I've wondered about that.

[Lindsey]

Yep, and I keep thinking about those darn keys and why they deemed necessary to be entered in the search warrant!!

Makes no sense, that is something you would bring up in trial when questioning a witness on the stand, not a s/w.!!

It seems more like a pre~emptive defensive strike!

Think about it!!

Kat

Yep, those keys are a puzzle to me too. Same with the little bloody footprints in CY's bathroom that MF talked about during the 911 call. I guess those things and more will be covered in a trial, if we ever get that far.

[Barbara2]

Another reason the police hesitate to arrest anyone in this case is because of what they don't know. If the police discarded Cassidy's supposedly bloody socks as unimportant to the investigation, perhaps they missed something important. Was that really blood on the socks? Were the footprints made from blood or from some other red substance? Were they really Casidy's prints? Of course, I don't know. On another board someone said the police didn't test the prints nor the socks. I don't know if that is true, but I have heard the police bungled the initial investigation so they are wary of what the private investigators found. Perhaps that explains the strange baseless ridicule and insults on the boards whenever the private investigators are mentioned. They're afraid of the PIs. I've wondered about that.

Or maybe that's what you are HOPING. IMO

[Barbara2]

I'm not sure where my keys are right now. Perhaps I should call the police and turn myself in. :rolleyes:

[kingbuff]

I knew that Michelle had gone to NY less than two weeks before she was murdered but I didn't realize it was a business trip. Did Michelle often have to travel on business?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/Story?id=6427041&page=4

I read somewhere (maybe at Bonnie's blog?) that Michelle had a meeting of some sort in a nearby town the day before the murder. I don't know if this was a business meeting.

[Kat4Eagles]

I want to read those again. Anyone have the links handy?


I am so bad at links !!
Let me ask Lin.!!

But, what is the reasoning to where the keys were found to the connection of Michelle's car possibly being used.??

What difference would it make whose keys were where?

But, it has to mean something, or it would not have even been mentioned in the s/w.

It would be like a "who cares" or "so what"?

Unless................, and I do have one theory..

Kat

[annalyzer]

I'm not sure where my keys are right now. Perhaps I should call the police and turn myself in. :rolleyes:


Why was such a big deal made of the keys in the sw?

[Lindsey]

I want to read those again. Anyone have the links handy?

I think this is the one. Let me know if it's not.

LINK (http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/12/05/4083955/1228504020-20081205131306653.pdf)

[Kat4Eagles]

Yep, those keys are a puzzle to me too. Same with the little bloody footprints in CY's bathroom that MF talked about during the 911 call. I guess those things and more will be covered in a trial, if we ever get that far.


Lin, you got the link handy for Anna?

You always have my back, thank you.
:)

Kat

[kingbuff]

Or maybe that's what you are HOPING. IMO

I'm not hoping anything. I'm just offering another theory about why no one has been arrested. Do you disagree with my theory?

[Kat4Eagles]

I'm not sure where my keys are right now. Perhaps I should call the police and turn myself in. :rolleyes:

:no:

Did you just find a dead body too?

Kat

[Lindsey]

I'm not sure where my keys are right now. Perhaps I should call the police and turn myself in. :rolleyes:

I bet they aren't on the hood of your murdered sister's car!

You surprised me with this post. Not like you at all. IMO

[Barbara2]

Why was such a big deal made of the keys in the sw?

I didn't really see it as a big deal. I believe the police were curious as to why the keys were there and they used it as an excuse to search the car. They didn't find anything and the search warrant went nowhere as a result. I think what it does show is that the investigators did not have tunnel vision and they did look at all possibilities. They were able to eliminate some. There is at least one that they are still investigating because they have not been able to eliminate that one. JMO

[kingbuff]

Why was such a big deal made of the keys in the sw?

I think it's because the police think someone took Casidy out of the house and used Michelle's car. Since Meredith lied (or was mistaken) about her keys, the police were curious. Thus they went to the mountains to check Michelle's car for blood.

[Kat4Eagles]

Another reason the police hesitate to arrest anyone in this case is because of what they don't know. If the police discarded Cassidy's supposedly bloody socks as unimportant to the investigation, perhaps they missed something important. Was that really blood on the socks? Were the footprints made from blood or from some other red substance? Were they really Casidy's prints? Of course, I don't know. On another board someone said the police didn't test the prints nor the socks. I don't know if that is true, but I have heard the police bungled the initial investigation so they are wary of what the private investigators found. Perhaps that explains the strange baseless ridicule and insults on the boards whenever the private investigators are mentioned. They're afraid of the PIs. I've wondered about that.


This is part of my key theory.

I think photos of the car and garage were taken and shown around, to witnesses.

I think for some reason either MY or MF had a distinguishable key ring..

I think once someone identified the keys belonging to MF on the car and not MY's, that L E needed to somehow clarify it.

But, that does not explain why MF's keys were on the hood of Michelle's car, to begin with.

It sounds to me like there was a mistaken key switch..especially if L E has reason to suspect someone took C in Michelle's car.

JMO
Kat

[Lindsey]

I think it's because the police think someone took Casidy out of the house and used Michelle's car. Since Meredith lied (or was mistaken) about her keys, the police were curious. Thus they went to the mountains to check Michelle's car for blood.

It says that on the last page of the SW, plain as day.

[Barbara2]

I bet they aren't on the hood of your murdered sister's car!

You surprised me with this post. Not like you at all. IMO

Excuse me? The argument has been that the sister is under suspicion because she stated the wrong place in terms of where she left her keys. It was under extreme circumstances. I'm not at all surprised that she forgot where she put her keys down and why. The investigators OBVIOUSLY looked into it and didn't find the reason to be sinister after all. I frequently forget where I put my keys. If I came home and expected my husband to be at work but his car was in the garage, I just might freak and put my keys down in a strange place. I'm not getting how this one piece makes Meredith a murderer but everything pointing to Jason is ignored. I don't get it.

[annalyzer]

I think this is the one. Let me know if it's not.

LINK (http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/12/05/4083955/1228504020-20081205131306653.pdf)

Yes Lindsey, thanks. :wub:

[Kat4Eagles]

I think it's because the police think someone took Casidy out of the house and used Michelle's car. Since Meredith lied (or was mistaken) about her keys, the police were curious. Thus they went to the mountains to check Michelle's car for blood.


Okay, but think about this.

If C was washed clean, how much blood would there have been on her?

And, if I am not mistaken, wasn't Michelle's car checked out like not until 8 months later? (July, 2007)

That is crazy!!

Kat

[Lindsey]

Excuse me? The argument has been that the sister is under suspicion because she stated the wrong place in terms of where she left her keys. It was under extreme circumstances. I'm not at all surprised that she forgot where she put her keys down and why. The investigators OBVIOUSLY looked into it and didn't find the reason to be sinister after all. I frequently forget where I put my keys. If I came home and expected my husband to be at work but his car was in the garage, I just might freak and put my keys down in a strange place. I'm not getting how this one piece makes Meredith a murderer but everything pointing to Jason is ignored. I don't get it.


I don't think it was a matter of LE asking MF where she left her keys and she said I don't remember. Little bit more to it than that, IMO.

MF was supposed to freak just because she saw her sister's car at home but not freak when she found her body?

[achristie]

Oh I understand what you're saying. But unless one can't be a juror if they've read newspaper stories about the case I think many of us would be good jurists on this case.

I disagree. I think you are the only one that could be a jurist. Everyone else is biased one way or the other. On second thought, you probably would be excluded once they found out you were following for this long on a message board.:biggrin:

[Lindsey]

yes lindsey, thanks. :wub:


yw .......

[Kat4Eagles]

Excuse me? The argument has been that the sister is under suspicion because she stated the wrong place in terms of where she left her keys. It was under extreme circumstances. I'm not at all surprised that she forgot where she put her keys down and why. The investigators OBVIOUSLY looked into it and didn't find the reason to be sinister after all. I frequently forget where I put my keys. If I came home and expected my husband to be at work but his car was in the garage, I just might freak and put my keys down in a strange place. I'm not getting how this one piece makes Meredith a murderer but everything pointing to Jason is ignored. I don't get it.


All I am getting at is why was this information is so important that it had to be in the s/w??

And, it has to be important..........or it wouldn't be there!!

It is not like L E is asking who left the Skippy peanut butter jar opened on the counter, this has to be relevant in some way.

Kat

[Barbara2]

I don't think it was a matter of LE asking MF where she left her keys and she said I don't remember. Little bit more to it than that, IMO.

No. She said that she put them on the kitchen counter. When they asked about the keys on the hood of the car she told them that yes, those were hers. How is that not forgetting where she put her keys? It's all in the SW. I'm not telling you anything that you can't read for yourself. IMO

[Barbara2]

All I am getting at is why was this information is so important that it had to be in the s/w??

And, it has to be important..........or it wouldn't be there!!

<snipped>
Kat

And yet the latest search warrants have not been for her computers, cell records or anything else related to her. Can you imagine that maybe she really WAS investigated and CLEARED a long time ago?

[annalyzer]

I disagree. I think you are the only one that could be a jurist. Everyone else is biased one way or the other. On second thought, you probably would be excluded once they found out you were following for this long on a message board.:biggrin:


:unsure:


:lol:

[Kat4Eagles]

Hi Kat When this murder first happened there was a photo of a police office standing by the garage door. I have looked in the timeline files and can't find it. Does any one know where that photo was? It might give us a look into the garage and perhaps we can figure out exactly where MY's car was. I have a theory also and have all ready posted it.

I remember that photo, and I wouldn't be surprised if Lin has it !!

I would love to hear your theory.

Kat

Ps. What size was their boat?

[Kat4Eagles]

I don't think it was a matter of LE asking MF where she left her keys and she said I don't remember. Little bit more to it than that, IMO.

MF was supposed to freak just because she saw her sister's car at home but not freak when she found her body?

:thumbup:
Exactly.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

And yet the latest search warrants have not been for her computers, cell records or anything else related to her. Can you imagine that maybe she really WAS investigated and CLEARED a long time ago?


The only thing in this case that is real and not imagined, is that Michelle is dead, someone killed her, and L E can not make an arrest.

:shrug:

You don't put something as trivia as key placement in a search warrant unless it means something more than we know!!

Why does L E think C was moved to the car/garage, and possibly from the home, what are they basing that on?

Why release that info unless that was important too?

Search warrants are not written up for things like this without some reason behind them.

All I am asking is what is their basis of this and why are the keys so meaningful?

[Barbara2]

<snipped>

All I am asking is what is their basis of this and why are the keys so meaningful?

They are not. IMO

[Kat4Eagles]

They are not. IMO

Then why were they in the search warrant at all?

:biggrin:

Kat

[Barbara2]

I don't think its as simple as that. For some reason LE is including the different stories that was told. She found the child walking around the house . The child was under a sheet on the bed. JY called in the morning . JY called in the afternoon. Bloody footprints all over the house. The child's feet were clean. She threw her keys on the counter. Her keys were found on the hood of her sisters car. Why is LE putting these discrepancies in the warrants?

The lead investigator stated in an affidavit that based on the known evidence, he believes that Jason Young killed his wife. There is no discrepancy there. IMO

[Barbara2]

Then why were they in the search warrant at all?



Kat

The lead investigator stated in an affidavit that based on the known evidence, he believes that Jason Young killed his wife, Michelle Fisher Young.

[Kat4Eagles]

The lead investigator stated in an affidavit that based on the known evidence, he believes that Jason Young killed his wife, Michelle Fisher Young.


Yes, we know that.

But, for some reason he can not arrest him.

[Lindsey]

I remember that photo, and I wouldn't be surprised if Lin has it !!

I would love to hear your theory.

Kat

Ps. What size was their boat?

Sorry, I don't think I have that one saved.

I did find a cute pic of Michelle and Cassidy with Meredith, all three in matching PJs, one Christmas morning. It makes me sad.

[annalyzer]

I don't think it was a matter of LE asking MF where she left her keys and she said I don't remember. Little bit more to it than that, IMO.

MF was supposed to freak just because she saw her sister's car at home but not freak when she found her body?


Exactly. Finding her sister's car there when she wasn't supposed to be home may cause some concern but hardly enough to freak out over. At that point she wouldn't know if Michelle had just decided to stay home or why she was there.

[Barbara2]

How was she investigated? Have you seen any warrants with her name on them? She wasn't investigated and everyone here knows that.

The lead investigator stated in an affidavit that based on the known evidence, he believes that Jason Young killed his wife, Michelle Fisher Young.

[achristie]

And yet the latest search warrants have not been for her computers, cell records or anything else related to her. Can you imagine that maybe she really WAS investigated and CLEARED a long time ago?

LOL, Barbra. I am continually amused by the discussion that has filled the last seven pages. It is patently clear that JY is the center of this investigation , yet certain people are STILL on a mission to discredit her . I believe it is "sweetly" couched in the words "searching for the truth". I do believe MF was investigated and cleared long ago. I've never understood why the GA friend has escaped their criticism. Why is that? She was the last person to be with an alive and well MY. Ya think she was investigated and cleared? I would suspect so, yet she's been given a pass on these treacherous boards. Hmmmmm.

MOO Aggie

[annalyzer]

Sorry, I don't think I have that one saved.

I did find a cute pic of Michelle and Cassidy with Meredith, all three in matching PJs, one Christmas morning. It makes me sad.


That latest news link had a couple of pics of Michelle and Cassidy I don't think I'd seen before. Yes, makes me sad too. :crying:

[annalyzer]

LOL, Barbra. I am continually amused by the discussion that has filled the last seven pages. It is patently clear that JY is the center of this investigation , yet certain people are STILL on a mission to discredit her . I believe it is "sweetly" couched in the words "searching for the truth". I do believe MF was investigated and cleared long ago. I've never understood why the GA friend has escaped their criticism. Why is that? She was the last person to be with an alive and well MY. Ya think she was investigated and cleared? I would suspect so, yet she's been given a pass on these treacherous boards. Hmmmmm.

MOO Aggie

The GA friend, does she have a name? Why is it never spoken?

[Barbara2]

LOL, Barbra. I am continually amused by the discussion that has filled the last seven pages. It is patently clear that JY is the center of this investigation , yet certain people are STILL on a mission to discredit her . I believe it is "sweetly" couched in the words "searching for the truth". I do believe MF was investigated and cleared long ago. I've never understood why the GA friend has escaped their criticism. Why is that? She was the last person to be with an alive and well MY. Ya think she was investigated and cleared? I would suspect so, yet she's been given a pass on these treacherous boards. Hmmmmm.

MOO Aggie

I don't think GA friend should be thrown under the bus either. She is no more involved than Meredith. Why aren't they scrutenizing the voluminous evidence that indicates that Jason killed his wife? I can understand GA friend being given a pass but why is JASON being given a pass?????

[achristie]

The GA friend, does she have a name? Why is it never spoken?

I don't know her name and have no clue why it's never been spoken, Anna. But she was the last person known to see an alive MY. Her testimony should be interesting, don't you agree?

[annalyzer]

The lead investigator stated in an affidavit that based on the known evidence, he believes that Jason Young killed his wife, Michelle Fisher Young.


I have never seen the words "solely" or "he acted alone".

[kingbuff]

The lead investigator stated in an affidavit that based on the known evidence, he believes that Jason Young killed his wife, Michelle Fisher Young.

You want to repeat that one more time? Just kidding. You seem to think Spivey is beyond error, that he is the one individual on the planet who is never wrong. He has been proved wrong at least once already in this case. He encouraged the wrongful death suit because he thought that would force Jason to submit to interrogation. He was wrong.

[achristie]

I don't think GA friend should be thrown under the bus either. She is no more involved than Meredith. Why aren't they scrutenizing the voluminous evidence that indicates that Jason killed his wife? I can understand GA friend being given a pass but why is JASON being given a pass?????

Coaching? :wink:

MOO Aggie

[Barbara2]

You want to repeat that one more time? Just kidding. You seem to think Spivey is beyond error, that he is the one individual on the planet who is never wrong. He has been proved wrong at least once already in this case. He encouraged the wrongful death suit because he thought that would force Jason to submit to interrogation. He was wrong.

Really? That was his reason??? Where is the link to that? I'm not sure how you know what he's thinking but I would love more insight. TIA

[annalyzer]

I don't know her name and have no clue why it's never been spoken, Anna. But she was the last person known to see an alive MY. Her testimony should be interesting, don't you agree?

Not if it was just another ordinary night of tv watching. It would be if Michelle told her something or she heard Michelle arguing on the phone or something.

[Lindsey]

LOL, Barbra. I am continually amused by the discussion that has filled the last seven pages. It is patently clear that JY is the center of this investigation , yet certain people are STILL on a mission to discredit her . I believe it is "sweetly" couched in the words "searching for the truth". I do believe MF was investigated and cleared long ago. I've never understood why the GA friend has escaped their criticism. Why is that? She was the last person to be with an alive and well MY. Ya think she was investigated and cleared? I would suspect so, yet she's been given a pass on these treacherous boards. Hmmmmm.

MOO Aggie

I would love to know more about her. Anything you can share? I've always wondered about her statement that she felt they were being watched that night while watching TV. For the longest time, the theory on this board was that Jason didn't really leave town until after GA friend went home and he watched them from the bushes, then he went back in and killed Michelle. I think that theory lost steam when we found out there was proof Jason arrived at the hotel at a time consistent with when he supposedly left town.

Do you think SS/GA got jealous when she found out Michelle was naming her baby Rylan? It's not a common name, you know.

IMO

[Barbara2]

I have never seen the words "solely" or "he acted alone".

You are right. There may be an accomplice and I'm sure they had to investigate Meredith to make sure she didn't play a role other than unwitting patsy in being sent to find the body. I would hope that they have been able to clear that up by now. IMO

[Lindsey]

The GA friend, does she have a name? Why is it never spoken?

Her name is Shelly Schaad, Ryan's wife. (Ryan was co-owner of the townhouse with Jason) They got married Oct 14, 2006.

I think we got used to calling her GA friend when we didn't know her name and we just kept doing it ?

[kingbuff]

The only thing in this case that is real and not imagined, is that Michelle is dead, someone killed her, and L E can not make an arrest.

:shrug:

You don't put something as trivia as key placement in a search warrant unless it means something more than we know!!

Why does L E think C was moved to the car/garage, and possibly from the home, what are they basing that on?

Why release that info unless that was important too?

Search warrants are not written up for things like this without some reason behind them.

All I am asking is what is their basis of this and why are the keys so meaningful?

I found that bolded part interesting. The police see keys on a car hood and conclude someone took Casidy for a ride that night? The police must have more to make such a leap.

[Silsbee]

I seriously doubt that the murderer has requested a plea deal at this point since he has yet to be indicted/arrested. JMO

I didn't know that's something that could be requested.

Sils

[kingbuff]

Her name is Shelly Schaad, Ryan's wife. (Ryan was co-owner of the townhouse with Jason) They got married Oct 14, 2006.

I think we got used to calling her GA friend when we didn't know her name and we just kept doing it ?

I remember some posters saying it was because she was an innocent bystander. No one ever said she had a motive. I prefer calling her GA friend.

[achristie]

I would love to know more about her. Anything you can share? I've always wondered about her statement that she felt they were being watched that night while watching TV. For the longest time, the theory on this board was that Jason didn't really leave town until after GA friend went home and he watched them from the bushes, then he went back in and killed Michelle. I think that theory lost steam when we found out there was proof Jason arrived at the hotel at a time consistent with when he supposedly left town.

Do you think SS/GA got jealous when she found out Michelle was naming her baby Rylan? It's not a common name, you know.

IMO

I know not a whit about the poor girl. The statement that she felt like they were being watched belongs in the rumor pile , as far as I'm concerned. Have no clue why you think the girl would be jealous about MY's choice of baby names. I don't think she is any more complicit in this crime than Michelle's beloved sister.

MOO Aggie

[Barbara2]

Her name is Shelly Schaad, Ryan's wife. (Ryan was co-owner of the townhouse with Jason) They got married Oct 14, 2006.

I think we got used to calling her GA friend when we didn't know her name and we just kept doing it ?

I did it out of respect for her because I was afraid she would be thrown to the wolves when I witnessed some posts on this board. IMO

[Barbara2]

I didn't know that's something that could be requested.

Sils

Right. That's what I said. We agree on that one.

[Silsbee]

I think the evidence DA Cummings is referring to is the same evidence Det Spivey submitted to Judge Stephens which, if made public now, might jeopardize their case.

I believe JY will be charged, but only at a time when the DA believes it will serve in a successful prosecution and result in a conviction.

IMO

Hey Paula,
If you are talking about the info Det Spivey submitted to the judge for the WDS; he did not submit any more info than what is already available to the public. If you read the affidavit he states he can not give more (including to the judge) than what is included in Exhibit A & B which is the probable cause info from SW's for the houses in Brevard and the SW for Jason's work computer.

Sils

[Silsbee]

But what will more time give him to get a successful conviction? I'm thinking the more time that elapses the less successful he will be.


I worry about that to anna. I don't think waiting years is optimal for anyone.

Sils

[annalyzer]

Her name is Shelly Schaad, Ryan's wife. (Ryan was co-owner of the townhouse with Jason) They got married Oct 14, 2006.

I think we got used to calling her GA friend when we didn't know her name and we just kept doing it ?

Thanks yet again Lindsey.

I'll continue using GA friend too but it's nice to know who we keep referring to.

Looked up the baby's name

http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/Rylan

[Silsbee]

Anna, I think that may hold true for the small cadre of people that have followed this case since day one. MOST people are not like US. A jury comes in cold, listens to the facts that are presented, then makes their decision. To me, the more time it takes doesn't necessarily translate to less success. We have eaten just about every morsel, rumor and fact, for a VERY long time. We have angst and yearning and questions BECAUSE we have stuck with it since day 1. Not so for an unbiased jury. In fact, not one of us would make good jurists on this case. Something to think about.

MOO Aggie

Hi Aggie,
You still hanging in there to I see. :biggrin:

I think it can hurt especially if this continues into years. People move, evidence gets misplaced, degrade, memories fade, etc. There is a lot that can hurt a case the longer it takes to bring it to trial. I'm not saying it can't be done - just that it's not the best scenario when you want a conviction.

Sils

[kingbuff]

What else do the police not know? What about the rumored bed linen? Did the police really leave behind the bloody sheets and bedspread? Did the private detectives perhaps find evidence on that linen that the police missed? Where are the bloody sheets now? I don't know. Again, maybe the police hesitate to arrest anyone because they don't know everything the private investigators found. If the police were to arrest Meredith (for example) now, they don't know what the PIs found that might indicate it was someone else. If they were to arrest Jason (for example), the police have the same problem.

[Silsbee]

You could be right. But I remember pages and pages and pages of discussion here that it was the luck of the draw that Michelle got a therapist who specializes in those issues.

I'm somewhat confused about the gay bars in NYC search since it was Michelle that went to NY several times a year. Jason sometimes went with her but she most often went alone or with her sister. I wish we knew when those searches were done.

IMO

Hi Lindsey
Speaking of searches - has anyone actually searched the other terms mentioned in the SW. "Head Trauma Knockout", Anatomy of a Knockout, and "Right posterior parietal occipital region".

I don't know about anyone else here but all of those terms sound like study searches. It sounds like stuff someone would research to write a paper about head trauma. Those search words are an odd choice for someone looking to kill someone. The first term brought a lot of stuff about boxing and concussions, etc. Most of the info was medical related or about this case now that it's out there. I find it an odd choice of words to search for.

Sils

[Lindsey]

I know not a whit about the poor girl. The statement that she felt like they were being watched belongs in the rumor pile , as far as I'm concerned. Have no clue why you think the girl would be jealous about MY's choice of baby names. I don't think she is any more complicit in this crime than Michelle's beloved sister.

MOO Aggie

The statement that she felt like they were being watched was in the media before it was ever repeated on this board.

[Lindsey]

Hi Lindsey
Speaking of searches - has anyone actually searched the other terms mentioned in the SW. "Head Trauma Knockout", Anatomy of a Knockout, and "Right posterior parietal occipital region".

I don't know about anyone else here but all of those terms sound like study searches. It sounds like stuff someone would research to write a paper about head trauma. Those search words are an odd choice for someone looking to kill someone. The first term brought a lot of stuff about boxing and concussions, etc. Most of the info was medical related or about this case now that it's out there. I find it an odd choice of words to search for.

Sils


Good point, Sils. I haven't searched any of those terms but what you're saying makes sense. Who might have been looking up those things for a term paper or something similar tho?

[Silsbee]

I don't think GA friend should be thrown under the bus either. She is no more involved than Meredith. Why aren't they scrutenizing the voluminous evidence that indicates that Jason killed his wife? I can understand GA friend being given a pass but why is JASON being given a pass?????

Just because I still have questions doesn't mean Jason gets a pass. I don't think it's fair to lump everyone that questions things as a Jason supporter. I hate that you have to be one or the other. I cannot state with 100% certainty that Jason is the ONLY one who could of killed Michelle. We only have one side of the case and that is from LE, who happens to believe Jason is guilty. There is some reason they won't arrest him so why can't those possibilities be discussed?

Sils

[Silsbee]

Good point, Sils. I haven't searched any of those terms but what you're saying makes sense. Who might have been looking up those things for a term paper or something similar tho?

Were any of their friends in the medical field? What about the GA friend - I thought I remember something posted about her being a nurse. She was already out of school but maybe did research for work. I don't know just a thought.

Sils

[Lindsey]

Were any of their friends in the medical field? What about the GA friend - I thought I remember something posted about her being a nurse. She was already out of school but maybe did research for work. I don't know just a thought.

Sils

Yes, she is a nurse and she might have still been in school at that time. She is a good bit younger than Michelle, IIRC.

I think it was posted here she is a anesthesiology (sp?) nurse ? Is that the same as a Nurse Anesthetist or is that different?

What do Nurse Anesthesia majors study?

The nurse anesthesia classroom curriculum emphasizes anatomy, physiology, pathophysiology, biochemistry, chemistry, physics and pharmacology. The clinical component provides experience with a variety of anesthesia techniques and procedures for all types of surgery and obstetrics.



http://www.allnursingschools.com/faqs/crna.php

Sorry it took so long to respond. Computer froze up and I had to restart.

ETA: I verified she is a Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetist (CRNA).

[annalyzer]

Hi Lindsey
Speaking of searches - has anyone actually searched the other terms mentioned in the SW. "Head Trauma Knockout", Anatomy of a Knockout, and "Right posterior parietal occipital region".

I don't know about anyone else here but all of those terms sound like study searches. It sounds like stuff someone would research to write a paper about head trauma. Those search words are an odd choice for someone looking to kill someone. The first term brought a lot of stuff about boxing and concussions, etc. Most of the info was medical related or about this case now that it's out there. I find it an odd choice of words to search for.

Sils


Great questions as usual Silsbee. :thumbup:

[Hey Paula]

I found that bolded part interesting. The police see keys on a car hood and conclude someone took Casidy for a ride that night? The police must have more to make such a leap.

What I took from reading that SW was that LE believed Michelle's blood might have been found in her vehicle, transferred from Cassidy's feet, leading them to believe she was placed in her mother's vehicle by the person who killed Michelle, and that the blood might be mingled with the killer's DNA.

I don't think the mix-up of Meredith's keys are mentioned as being related to the crime itself, only that they are visible in the photos taken when the crime scene was secured.

IMO

[bookie]

The only thing in this case that is real and not imagined, is that Michelle is dead, someone killed her, and L E can not make an arrest.

:shrug:

You don't put something as trivia as key placement in a search warrant unless it means something more than we know!!

Why does L E think C was moved to the car/garage, and possibly from the home, what are they basing that on?

Why release that info unless that was important too?

Search warrants are not written up for things like this without some reason behind them.

All I am asking is what is their basis of this and why are the keys so meaningful?



I think I figured out why the keys were so important. Meredith tells them she her keys on thecounter but it was really Michelle's keys that were on the counter. Meanwhile Meredith's keys are on the hood of a vehicle police think may have been used to take Cassidy out of the home. And then there is this question....how did Meredith get into the house if her keys were on the car and Michelle's keys were where Meredith said she put hers? Does that make sense? Long hard day at work.

[Lindsey]

What I took from reading that SW was that LE believed Michelle's blood might have been found in her vehicle, transferred from Cassidy's feet, leading them to believe she was placed in her mother's vehicle by the person who killed Michelle, and that the blood might be mingled with the killer's DNA.

I don't think the mix-up of Meredith's keys are mentioned as being related to the crime itself, only that they are visible in the photos taken when the crime scene was secured.

IMO


So, why would they mention the keys 'mix-up' in the SW?

[Kat4Eagles]

I did it out of respect for her because I was afraid she would be thrown to the wolves when I witnessed some posts on this board. IMO


No one is throwing anyone to the wolves, or under the bus, or accusing anyone of anything..

Something else I wonder about is Alan, Michelle's Dad, May he rest in peace. :rose:

Do you think he thought Jason killed Michelle and would not do anything about it?

Even just confront him.??

I know he was ill, and I apologize if this seems insensitive..

I was just wondering if Jason could take C to see him, and just act like everything was okay.

Like " I killed your daughter, but here, visit with your granddaughter?"

Do you think they ever had words, or did Alan believe in Jason's innocence.?

Sorry again !!

Kat

[bookie]

What I took from reading that SW was that LE believed Michelle's blood might have been found in her vehicle, transferred from Cassidy's feet, leading them to believe she was placed in her mother's vehicle by the person who killed Michelle, and that the blood might be mingled with the killer's DNA.

I don't think the mix-up of Meredith's keys are mentioned as being related to the crime itself, only that they are visible in the photos taken when the crime scene was secured.

IMO



That was no reason to mention them in the s/w. In a report maybe but not in the PC portion of a warrant.

[Hey Paula]

So, why would they mention the keys 'mix-up' in the SW?

Because the keys were visible in the photos taken of Michelle's vehicle.

[Kat4Eagles]

I think I figured out why the keys were so important. Meredith tells them she her keys on thecounter but it was really Michelle's keys that were on the counter. Meanwhile Meredith's keys are on the hood of a vehicle police think may have been used to take Cassidy out of the home. And then there is this question....how did Meredith get into the house if her keys were on the car and Michelle's keys were where Meredith said she put hers? Does that make sense? Long hard day at work.

It would make sense if the door was opened and she didn't need them, I guess.

But, she wouldn't know that unless she tried the door, hmmm.

And, she wouldn't go backwards with the keys to the car?

Let's see, she gets out of her car, keys in her hand or purse.

I think we were told she came in through the side garage door, that was usually unsecured..

She walks through the garage.

She has to hear Mr. G who is freaking.

She sees Michelle's car, which should mean Michelle is there.

Why does she drop her keys on the hood of Michelle's car?

Is she carrying something heavy?

[MerriMent]

I didn't really see it as a big deal. I believe the police were curious as to why the keys were there and they used it as an excuse to search the car. They didn't find anything and the search warrant went nowhere as a result. I think what it does show is that the investigators did not have tunnel vision and they did look at all possibilities. They were able to eliminate some. There is at least one that they are still investigating because they have not been able to eliminate that one. JMO

You sure are in denial about those keys. LE do not sit on search warrants and seal them a year later if the warrants "went nowhere" as you claim. Meredith's conflicting statements and "revelation" (LE's term, not mine) haven't eliminated her from the suspect list, imo.

[MerriMent]

I don't think its as simple as that. For some reason LE is including the different stories that was told. She found the child walking around the house . The child was under a sheet on the bed. JY called in the morning . JY called in the afternoon. Bloody footprints all over the house. The child's feet were clean. She threw her keys on the counter. Her keys were found on the hood of her sisters car. Why is LE putting these discrepancies in the warrants?

So Meredith's attorney will see them.

[Lindsey]

No one is throwing anyone to the wolves, or under the bus, or accusing anyone of anything..

Something else I wonder about is Alan, Michelle's Dad, May he rest in peace. :rose:

Do you think he thought Jason killed Michelle and would not do anything about it?

Even just confront him.??

I know he was ill, and I apologize if this seems insensitive..

I was just wondering if Jason could take C to see him, and just act like everything was okay.

Like " I killed your daughter, but here, visit with your granddaughter?"

Do you think they ever had words, or did Alan believe in Jason's innocence.?

Sorry again !!

Kat

No need to apologize. I know how you meant your comment.

I was thinking about Alan earlier tonight when I read the article about cases that take so long to prosecute. If he had any information that would be helpful to this case, I hope he was deposed or else that info is gone to the grave with him.

I think they had a good relationship right up to the end so that makes me think he still believed in him. And Alan's widow included Jason as a son-in-law in his obituary. That tells me a lot.

IMO

[MerriMent]

The lead investigator has been shown in several photos with her. I think its been stated on here they are very good friends. Just sayin.

Do we know for certain the lead investigator hasn't changed?

[annalyzer]

It would make sense if the door was opened and she didn't need them, I guess.

But, she wouldn't know that unless she tried the door, hmmm.

And, she wouldn't go backwards with the keys to the car?

Let's see, she gets out of her car, keys in her hand or purse.

I think we were told she came in through the side garage door, that was usually unsecured..

She walks through the garage.

She has to hear Mr. G who is freaking.

She sees Michelle's car, which should mean Michelle is there.

Why does she drop her keys on the hood of Michelle's car?

Is she carrying something heavy?

Unless she laid her keys down there after calling 911, maybe while exiting the house with the child to wait on emergency personnel to arrive. Possible?

[Hey Paula]

The SW states Meredith passed through the unsecured garage and entered the residence through the garage/kitchen door.

[MerriMent]

Well they do. They have clean clothes and feet on a kid that was supposed to have been alone all day with her mother laying in a pool of blood. Does any one know a kid that would have stayed out of the blood if they were there all day by themselves. We know at one point she was in the blood because of her bloody tracks and socks. So who cleaned her up and why did she stay clean? I don't buy into the drugged theory at all. Maybe if she hadn't been allowed to be in the back ground of the 911 call. But after hearing that I would never believe she was drugged.

Someone intentionally kept that child away from her mother's body and that person is most likely Meredith. Nobody else could time her arrival perfectly to ensure CY stayed out of the blood and away from her mommy. LE also believes someone carried the child into the bathroom. It couldn't be Jason, he was in Virginia. If not Meredith, who? LE has steadfastly refused to confirm what Jason's phone records say about day, time and frequency of calls to/from Meredith.

[MerriMent]

I think I figured out why the keys were so important. Meredith tells them she her keys on thecounter but it was really Michelle's keys that were on the counter. Meanwhile Meredith's keys are on the hood of a vehicle police think may have been used to take Cassidy out of the home. And then there is this question....how did Meredith get into the house if her keys were on the car and Michelle's keys were where Meredith said she put hers? Does that make sense? Long hard day at work.

The keys are important because Meredith lied but LE didn't catch her in the lie until they went back and examined photos. Truth is much easier to remember than a lie. Meredith intentionally lied because she drove Michelle's car the night of the murder.

I don't have the exact wording in the search warrant but Meredith told them she placed her keys on the kitchen counter where SHE always put them. Her statement smacks of deception. More likely, Meredith put Michelle's keys on the counter where Michelle always put them. How many months did it take LE to figure out this lie and how much valuable time and evidence was lost?

[Lindsey]

Someone intentionally kept that child away from her mother's body and that person is most likely Meredith. Nobody else could time her arrival perfectly to ensure CY stayed out of the blood and away from her mommy. LE also believes someone carried the child into the bathroom. It couldn't be Jason, he was in Virginia. If not Meredith, who? LE has steadfastly refused to confirm what Jason's phone records say about day, time and frequency of calls to/from Meredith.

There is an 'unconfirmed rumor' (according to Wyn) that JY called MF on Thursday night. Maybe that's when he left the vm asking her to go to the house to get the printout.

It will be interesting to see all the phone records instead of hearing about a select few.

IMO

[MerriMent]

It would make sense if the door was opened and she didn't need them, I guess.

But, she wouldn't know that unless she tried the door, hmmm.

And, she wouldn't go backwards with the keys to the car?

Let's see, she gets out of her car, keys in her hand or purse.

I think we were told she came in through the side garage door, that was usually unsecured..

She walks through the garage.

She has to hear Mr. G who is freaking.

She sees Michelle's car, which should mean Michelle is there.

Why does she drop her keys on the hood of Michelle's car?

Is she carrying something heavy?

heavy or awkward, such as a wiggling toddler?

[MerriMent]

There is an 'unconfirmed rumor' (according to Wyn) that JY called MF on Thursday night. Maybe that's when he left the vm asking her to go to the house to get the printout.

It will be interesting to see all the phone records instead of hearing about a select few.

IMO

if so, yet another lie from Meredith Fisher.

[MerriMent]

Unless she laid her keys down there after calling 911, maybe while exiting the house with the child to wait on emergency personnel to arrive. Possible?

I doubt LE allowed her to exit through the garage because the front door was closer to the master bedroom.

[annalyzer]

I doubt LE allowed her to exit through the garage because the front door was closer to the master bedroom.


This would be before LE or anyone else had arrived.

[MerriMent]

This would be before LE or anyone else had arrived.

I think LE kept her on the phone until first responders were on the scene.

[Hey Paula]

There is an 'unconfirmed rumor' (according to Wyn) that JY called MF on Thursday night. Maybe that's when he left the vm asking her to go to the house to get the printout.

It will be interesting to see all the phone records instead of hearing about a select few.

IMO

Michelle's body was discovered on Friday, November 3, 2006. If JY called Meredith Thursday night, that would be the same day he left the house for his business trip, and the same night the GA was there with Michelle. I wonder why JY didn't merely call the GA and have her retrieve it before Michelle had a chance to see the printout?

[MerriMent]

Michelle's body was discovered on Friday, November 3, 2006. If JY call Meredith Thursday night, that would be the same day he left the house for his business trip, and the same night the GA was there with Michelle. I wonder why JY didn't merely call the GA and have her retrieve it before Michelle had a chance to see the printout?

GA was right there with Michelle. How could she get a phone call from Jason and retrieve something from Jason's office and Michelle not know about it?

[Hey Paula]

GA was right there with Michelle. How could she get a phone call from Jason and retrieve something from Jason's office and Michelle not know about it?

The GA could have feigned a trip to the bathroom and retrieved the document, which would have ensured Michelle not seeing the surprise.

[Lindsey]

Michelle's body was discovered on Friday, November 3, 2006. If JY called Meredith Thursday night, that would be the same day he left the house for his business trip, and the same night the GA was there with Michelle. I wonder why JY didn't merely call the GA and have her retrieve it before Michelle had a chance to see the printout?


Right, the same night he left, maybe as he was driving to the hotel he remembered he left the printout. It could have happened that way. Actually, it would make more sense to me if it did happen that way.

How could he call the GA friend and ask her to do that without Michelle being suspicious of the reason for the call?

[MerriMent]

The GA could have feigned a trip to the bathroom and retrieved the document, which would have ensured Michelle not seeing the surprise.

A phone call was still required and GA friend was sitting right there with Michelle, a bathroom only steps away. It's also possible the GA friend had already left by the time Jason remembered it.

[Lindsey]

The GA could have feigned a trip to the bathroom and retrieved the document, which would have ensured Michelle not seeing the surprise.

They were watching TV downstairs in the family room. There is a bathroom downstairs. The home office with the print out was upstairs.

[MerriMent]

Right, the same night he left, maybe as he was driving to the hotel he remembered he left the printout. It could have happened that way. Actually, it would make more sense to me if it did happen that way.

How could he call the GA friend and ask her to do that without Michelle being suspicious of the reason for the call?

And why would GA friend immediately assume her phone was ringing with a secret request?

[annalyzer]

There is an 'unconfirmed rumor' (according to Wyn) that JY called MF on Thursday night. Maybe that's when he left the vm asking her to go to the house to get the printout.

It will be interesting to see all the phone records instead of hearing about a select few.

IMO

Meredith and Jason making other plans too?

[MerriMent]

They were watching TV downstairs in the family room. There is a bathroom downstairs. The home office with the print out was upstairs.

I'm not convinced Jason phoned Meredith and asked her to retrieve the printout. I think it more likely he phoned her and asked her to keep an eye on the auction for him because he was traveling. Meredith auctioned a purse on ebay after the murder and I've wondered if it was the same purse.

[Lindsey]

Meredith and Jason making other plans too?

Stranger things have happened, IMO.

[Lindsey]

I'm not convinced Jason phoned Meredith and asked her to retrieve the printout. I think it more likely he phoned her and asked her to keep an eye on the auction for him because he was traveling. Meredith auctioned a purse on ebay after the murder and I've wondered if it was the same purse.

If the purse he was wanting to buy Michelle was a Coach, that's not the one that MF sold on ebay. I don't remember the name but wasn't Coach. Jason might have just used ebay to print out pics to show, not intending to buy it from there. Not long ago, someone here looked on ebay for a pic of Franklin shoes just to show us what they look like. Jason might have done the same with the purse.

IMO

[MerriMent]

If the purse he was wanting to buy Michelle was a Coach, that's not the one that MF sold on ebay. I don't remember the name but wasn't Coach. Jason might have just used ebay to print out pics to show, not intending to buy it from there. Not long ago, someone here looked on ebay for a pic of Franklin shoes just to show us what they look like. Jason might have done the same with the purse.

IMO

Didn't the search warrant say Jason was tracking more than one auction on ebay?

[Lindsey]

Didn't the search warrant say Jason was tracking more than one auction on ebay?

I'm not remembering that part but it could have said that. I'll go back and read again tomorrow.

Goodnight.

[dkny]

IMO, MF had a rock solid albi and the different "interpretations" are to ensure anyone reading them would not be able to come up w/a "story". Have we seen MF's sworn statement ? JMO

[Kat4Eagles]

The SW states Meredith passed through the unsecured garage and entered the residence through the garage/kitchen door.

We know that.

[Kat4Eagles]

After emails from him were showing up on the INTERNET I would have thought he would have been replaced a long time ago. If this ever gets to court he will have to explain why he wrote that email. LE is supposed to be unbiased. I don't believe he
fits that qualification.


Would that come into play, the email that was posted?

I never thought that was a very smart thing to do in an ongoing
investigation.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

I think it is more likely he called and ask her to check on MY. He tried to call her just before he called MF . He may just have called to see if she had seen or talked to her. He could have told her about the purse when he talked to her the night before and she used that conversation for being there. The warrants are very explicate about some things but just say according to MF she went there to retrieve a document. If LE knew for sure why she went there I think it would be stated.



I want to see if the phonecalls start to reflect anywhere a time, when Jason started to become worried about Michelle.

There are several different things he could have done to get someone to check in on Michelle.

And, the s/w in reference to the keys is starting to remind me of the 911 call , in the fact, that there is almost too much information. (TMI)

If I were to grant that s/w for probable cause, I would be asking myself why the need for the keys explanation.?

If I were on the jury, I would be thinking .."So what?"

So, to add this in there,at that time, does not make sense, to say the least.

On the 911 call, when MF says she usually doesn't go there during the day,

it's like "No one asked you when you go there, why do you need to
explain"? or the part where she says she is usually good under pressure, "Who cares?, no one is asking you not to freak out , you are

allowed, you just found the body of your dead sister" go ahead and freak out, this is a legitimate qualified freak out moment if ever there was one.....

Or saying she is moving the pillow?
When does it hit her not to touch anything cause, :lightbulb moment: a crime had been committed.

A brutal, horrific, gruesome murder.

So much in this case just does add up.

Same with C, we know she had to be near Michelle at some point in order to see her wounds , she talks about them, and yet MF does not see them?

C sure did.
:confused:


Kat

[Lindsey]

O/T Little girl's body found near Caylee Anthony home.

Go to her thread (page 12) for more info

[kingbuff]

After emails from him were showing up on the INTERNET I would have thought he would have been replaced a long time ago. If this ever gets to court he will have to explain why he wrote that email. LE is supposed to be unbiased. I don't believe he fits that qualification.

Not sure about the unbiased part. If I were a detective and I became convinced of one person's guilt, I believe I would concentrate my efforts on that person while keeping my mind open to other possibilities. I forget the details in the letter but I remember thinking it strange. Why try to convince others the Fishers were not suspects, assuming that was the purpose of the letter. Or do I have that purpose wrong?

[Lindsey]

I want to see if the phonecalls start to reflect anywhere a time, when Jason started to become worried about Michelle.

There are several different things he could have done to get someone to check in on Michelle.

And, the s/w in reference to the keys is starting to remind me of the 911 call , in the fact, that there is almost too much information. (TMI)

If I were to grant that s/w for probable cause, I would be asking myself why the need for the keys explanation.?

If I were on the jury, I would be thinking .."So what?"

So, to add this in there,at that time, does not make sense, to say the least.

On the 911 call, when MF says she usually doesn't go there during the day,

it's like "No one asked you when you go there, why do you need to
explain"? or the part where she says she is usually good under pressure, "Who cares?, no one is asking you not to freak out , you are

allowed, you just found the body of your dead sister" go ahead and freak out, this is a legitimate qualified freak out moment if ever there was one.....

Or saying she is moving the pillow?
When does it hit her not to touch anything cause, :lightbulb moment: a crime had been committed.

A brutal, horrific, gruesome murder.

So much in this case just does add up.

Same with C, we know she had to be near Michelle at some point in order to see her wounds , she talks about them, and yet MF does not see them?

C sure did.
:confused:


Kat


All very good points, Kat.

[Lindsey]

Not sure about the unbiased part. If I were a detective and I became convinced of one person's guilt, I believe I would concentrate my efforts on that person while keeping my mind open to other possibilities. I forget the details in the letter but I remember thinking it strange. Why try to convince others the Fishers were not suspects, assuming that was the purpose of the letter. Or do I have that purpose wrong?

I've always thought that's what a good investigator does.

IMO

[Kat4Eagles]

[QUOTE=Lindsey;12517005]O/T Little girl's body found near Caylee Anthony home.

Go to her thread (page 12) for more info[/QUOTE



OMG, I just saw this too.

Thank you, Lin.

:(

Kat

[kingbuff]

You have the purpose correct. IIRC that was one of the questions he was asked . He assured them that MF wasn't a suspect. I don't think we are allowed to link the email here as this forum doesn't have permission from the det. to publish it.

Spivey no longer has a suspect in mind. In his opinion, Jason is not a suspect anymore. All Spivey lacks now is the proof and maybe the means. Maybe he entered the civil suit in hopes someone will give him the proof. I suspect Spivey has bugged Jason's Brevard home, his telephone, his car. No proof so far. Maybe the labs will turn up something he can use.

[kingbuff]

I think he entered the civil suit because he is such good friends with the Fishers. The civil suit might even has been his idea. It was posted on here where they all went to MF's home including the attorney that wrote up JY and MY's wills. Maybe that meeting was about the civil suit and how to go about it.

Have you seen any information about Richard Coleman Spivey III? I wonder if he has any previous connection to anyone in this case. Some people with computer skills might be able to check. Maybe that might explain why he is such good friends with the Fishers, if he is.

[JD1974]

I think the evidence DA Cummings is referring to is the same evidence Det Spivey submitted to Judge Stephens which, if made public now, might jeopardize their case.

I believe JY will be charged, but only at a time when the DA believes it will serve in a successful prosecution and result in a conviction.

IMO



I think it is stranger than that because he said the reason he couldn't reveal why Jason had NOT been arrested would jeopardize the case. If Spivey had the information already and gave it to the judge then they have the so called missing information, it is obviously something that they can't quite figure out, so thinking that would help any judge come to a determination against Jason just seems backward. It shows to me either they really are looking at someone else OR there is a huge hole somewhere in this case and they cannot figure out how to close it.

[alter ego]

Thanks for your reply, AE.

I thought that although JY didn't pursue the proceeds from the LIP, that it would nevertheless be viewed as a motive, given the circumstances of his alibi not being ironclad. I also felt that due to the number of wounds Michelle sustained, and that the murder was committed while Cassidy was home, that #1 might apply.

Re NC Fetal Homicide Law:

Do you mean that the law wasn't in effect in 2006? The link I posted was updated in 2008 and reads that there are FHLs in the following states:

Currently, at least 36 states have fetal homicide laws. The states include: Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Nebraska, Nevada, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia and Wisconsin. At least 19 states have fetal homicide laws that apply to the earliest stages of pregnancy ("any state of gestation," "conception," "fertilization" or "post-fertilization"), indicated below with an asterisk (*).Since Jason did not attempt to collect the LI proceeds, the State would have an uphill battle trying to prove pecuniary gain.

Senate Bill 295 was introduced in 2007 to update murder statutes to include the death of an unborn child, but it never passed. I'm not sure where the info that you quoted came from, because as recent as Jan this year, there was outcry because NC has no fetal homicide law.

http://www.wwaytv3.com/no_fetal_homicide_law_in_nc/01/2008

eta: new bills were introduced this year
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/2433919/

[JD1974]

Or he could be referring to something that doesn't point to Jason at all. That would certainly explain why he hasn't been arrested. It could even be the therapist's notes.

IMO

That is exactly what I am thinking, there is something that just isn't right and they can't quite figure it out. That is what the comment says to me because he says he cannot say why he has not been arrested and if he did then it would jeopardize the case. I don't understand the comment that Spivey gave this evidence to the judge to make Jason look guiltier because that is the exact opposite of what "the reason he has NOT been arrested" means. The reason they cannot arrest him has to be something that would exonerate him and they can't firgure out how to get around it yet.

[JD1974]

You could be right. But I remember pages and pages and pages of discussion here that it was the luck of the draw that Michelle got a therapist who specializes in those issues.

I'm somewhat confused about the gay bars in NYC search since it was Michelle that went to NY several times a year. Jason sometimes went with her but she most often went alone or with her sister. I wish we knew when those searches were done.

IMO


I still IMHO think those searches were done for or by Rhett. I am not saying anything bad about Rhett in any way when I say this. I am honestly just putting two and two together.

[alter ego]

There is a difference between Laci's law and the fetal homicide law?

I'll go google.Laci and Conner Law applies when the death of an unborn child occurs during the commission of specific federal crimes.

Fetal Homicide Laws are state laws dealing with the death of an unborn child when the mother is murdered or attacked.

Both treat the death of the unborn child as a seperate murder, which allows the death penalty to be sought in some states (as it did in Peterson West) because more than one person was murdered.

If the military were trying Cesear Lauren, he could be charged with 2 murders but since the state of NC is trying him, he has only been charged with one murder.

[kingbuff]

Laci and Conner Law applies when the death of an unborn child occurs during the commission of specific federal crimes.

Fetal Homicide Laws are state laws dealing with the death of an unborn child when the mother is murdered or attacked.

Both treat the death of the unborn child as a seperate murder, which allows the death penalty to be sought in some states (as it did in Peterson West) because more than one person was murdered.

If the military were trying Cesear Lauren, he could be charged with 2 murders but since the state of NC is trying him, he has only been charged with one murder.

I've never understood how a state justifies the fetal homicide law. When the mother aborts the fetus, it's a right. When someone else kills the fetus, it's murder of a human. But that's an argument for another day and forum.

[JD1974]

I have. After reading and looking up things for the past two years I am thinking about taking a drill to my hard drive. God forbid any one gets murdered close to me.



I have always said that if my neighbors husband/wife poisons the other one I may be in big trouble! I searched anti-freeze poisioning during the Jensen trial so many times to get links that I think I would even be looking at myself differently.

[jerry50]

I think there is evidence that can't be tied to Jason or Meredith and there is also evidence Jason never left the hotel.


If there was evidence that Jason never left the hotel they would not be issuing search warrants on him. With the pictures that LE has shown of JY in the hotel hallway I will not be surprised if they also have pics of him leaving although that does not prove murder. It is just another piece of CE. They still have to put him in the room.

[jerry50]

Have you seen any information about Richard Coleman Spivey III? I wonder if he has any previous connection to anyone in this case. Some people with computer skills might be able to check. Maybe that might explain why he is such good friends with the Fishers, if he is.


This isn't the first time that LE has befriended a victim's family. They have seen the carnage done to a victim's family and want to see justice done. Maybe if Jason had talked to LE he would be a friend of Spivey's also.
If it bothers you so much you should encourage him to give the detective a call.

[MerriMent]

If there was evidence that Jason never left the hotel they would not be issuing search warrants on him. With the pictures that LE has shown of JY in the hotel hallway I will not be surprised if they also have pics of him leaving although that does not prove murder. It is just another piece of CE. They still have to put him in the room.

If evidence exists that Jason never left the hotel, LE would still be looking at him as a co-conspirator. The Nov. 6 search warrant states they have been unable to rule him out as a participant meaning they think he may have co-conspired.

[jerry50]

The befriending isn't the odd part. The odd part is why put the discrepancies in the PC of the warrants? We have three now . There could be more if someone wants to print out the warrants and study them. Why what purpose did they serve? Does any one believe in subliminal messages.?


I wonder how many discrepancies there would be if Jason talked to LE.

[kingbuff]

This isn't the first time that LE has befriended a victim's family. They have seen the carnage done to a victim's family and want to see justice done. Maybe if Jason had talked to LE he would be a friend of Spivey's also.
If it bothers you so much you should encourage him to give the detective a call.

Hi, Jerry. I think Jason doesn't need any advice from me, lol. I think all the police who saw the murder scene would want justice for the cornage. I think it would take more than talking to become a friend of Spivey.

[kingbuff]

The befriending isn't the odd part. The odd part is why put the discrepancies in the PC of the warrants? We have three now . There could be more if someone wants to print out the warrants and study them. Why what purpose did they serve? Does any one believe in subliminal messages.?

I don't know what you mean about subliminal messages and discrepancies. Maybe you will explain that. But befriending with the Fishers still seems strange to me. From what I read, the policeman voluntarily involved himself in the civil case. He volunteered to talk to the judge and give his opinion. The judge naturally gave weight to that opinion. So now Spivey the individual is a part of the civil case. That seems to be differeant than Spivey the policeman giving testimony.

[Kat4Eagles]

I don't know what you mean about subliminal messages and discrepancies. Maybe you will explain that. But befriending with the Fishers still seems strange to me. From what I read, the policeman voluntarily involved himself in the civil case. He volunteered to talk to the judge and give his opinion. The judge naturally gave weight to that opinion. So now Spivey the individual is a part of the civil case. That seems to be differeant than Spivey the policeman giving testimony.


Evening, King Buff.........

I think everyone is waiting for word in the Caylee case.

Don't worry, we shall return!!

Kat

[kingbuff]

Evening, King Buff.........

I think everyone is waiting for word in the Caylee case.

Don't worry, we shall return!!

Kat

Hi, Kat. I haven't kept up with that case. But Good Lord! Could a mother sleep at night knowing her daughter was in a bag in the woods?

[kingbuff]

That looked like a question but I guess not.

You don't want to explain the discrepancies and subliminal messages? It sounds like you found something.

[Cardinal]

~snipped~ Does any one believe in subliminal messages.?

Is that like receiving messages from aliens?

[Kat4Eagles]

Hi, Kat. I haven't kept up with that case. But Good Lord! Could a mother sleep at night knowing her daughter was in a bag in the woods?

I don't know...that case is way too sad for me to follow on a daily basis.

I did some MY homework and googled the name you mentioned, and all I found was this Board.

But, :::drum roll please:::

I found this early statement I forgot about.!!

"Jason Young is part of but not the focus of this investigation."

I think we got a hint that even back then, there were clues that more than one person was involved.

You know what else?
Remember that Lion King video and Jelly bean post, no one ever said that happened in MY's home.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Is that like receiving messages from aliens?

WB, Card.....:lol:.

I don't know, remember in the SP case, when he said something to the effect that Laci loved to fly kites and her friends should all go fly one.!!

That was as subliminal as it gets,
Kat

[Cardinal]

Kat, it seems as though the case has finally gotten some national media coverage:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=6427041&page=1

[Kat4Eagles]

You don't want to explain the discrepancies and subliminal messages? It sounds like you found something.


I think, and Confused, correct me if I am wrong, that they mean
if you read the warrants , there is something else in there besides
the obvious.

[Cardinal]

WB, Card.....:lol:.

I don't know, remember in the SP case, when he said something to the effect that Laci loved to fly kites and her friends should all go fly one.!!

That was as subliminal as it gets,
Kat

LOL I didn't follow the SP case that closely, but that's pretty funny.

So what did confused mean about subliminal messages in this case?

[Kat4Eagles]

Kat, it seems as though the case has finally gotten some national media coverage:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=6427041&page=1

Yep, saw it yesterday, Lin ponted out the words "when and whether" when discussing an arrest.

Does not sound promising.

[Kat4Eagles]

LOL I didn't follow the SP case that closely, but that's pretty funny.

So what did confused mean about subliminal messages in this case?


We should let Confused answer!!

Confused, where are you?

QQ

[Cardinal]

I think he entered the civil suit because he is such good friends with the Fishers. The civil suit might even has been his idea. It was posted on here where they all went to MF's home including the attorney that wrote up JY and MY's wills. Maybe that meeting was about the civil suit and how to go about it.

Confused, if you're around....

I remember the post you're referring to, and the gathering happened after Michelle's memorial service. The WDS had already been filed at that point.

[Kat4Eagles]

Confused, if you're around....

I remember the post you're referring to, and the gathering happened after Michelle's memorial service. The WDS had already been filed at that point.


That is true, but according to the latest articles , the WDS
can not even be mentioned or considered in the criminal trial, if, there ever, ever, ever, is one.

[Cardinal]

That is true, but according to the latest articles , the WDS
can not even be mentioned or considered in the criminal trial, if, there ever, ever, ever, is one.

I don't think it can either, and I don't think it was filed for that reason. I think it was filed to prevent Jason from benefitting financially from Michelle's death.

[Cardinal]

For those here that harp on the details of the 'car keys' and the possibility the Lexus SUV was used to transport Cassidy.....C. Richard Spivey III signed that SW :tonguewag:

You're right, he did. It seems as though his "friendships" may not have interfered with the investigation after all.

JMO

[Cardinal]

I heard the "friendship" with Meredith started 10/07.

We can certainly add that to the rumor collection. :biggrin:

But if that's true, it would seem that 11 months after the murder, Det. Spivey did not believe that Meredith was involved.

For the record, I have no problem with the questions about Meredith. But no matter the alleged discrepancies, I just don't see a motive.

JMO

[Cardinal]

In the end, investigating Meredith thoroughly was a very smart thing to do .;)

I agree. I hope that LE investigated everyone close to Michelle, including Meredith. I don't like to think that LE would give anyone a pass for such a brutal crime.

But the fact that the later SWs didn't focus on Meredith, and the fact that we haven't seen any SWs that specifically target her, make me think that her involvement in this tragedy was peripheral.

JMO

[annalyzer]

I want to see if the phonecalls start to reflect anywhere a time, when Jason started to become worried about Michelle.

There are several different things he could have done to get someone to check in on Michelle.

And, the s/w in reference to the keys is starting to remind me of the 911 call , in the fact, that there is almost too much information. (TMI)

If I were to grant that s/w for probable cause, I would be asking myself why the need for the keys explanation.?

If I were on the jury, I would be thinking .."So what?"

So, to add this in there,at that time, does not make sense, to say the least.

On the 911 call, when MF says she usually doesn't go there during the day,

it's like "No one asked you when you go there, why do you need to
explain"? or the part where she says she is usually good under pressure, "Who cares?, no one is asking you not to freak out , you are

allowed, you just found the body of your dead sister" go ahead and freak out, this is a legitimate qualified freak out moment if ever there was one.....

Or saying she is moving the pillow?
When does it hit her not to touch anything cause, :lightbulb moment: a crime had been committed.

A brutal, horrific, gruesome murder.

So much in this case just does add up.

Same with C, we know she had to be near Michelle at some point in order to see her wounds , she talks about them, and yet MF does not see them?

C sure did.
:confused:


Kat

Yeah that 911 call is hinky as hell.

[annalyzer]

You're right, he did. It seems as though his "friendships" may not have interfered with the investigation after all.

JMO

But remember, cops are allowed to lie to get the info they need. :wink:

[kingbuff]

Reckon a husband can sleep at night knowing he bashed his wife's skull in :unsure:

Hi, R P D. I don't know how to answer that, if it is a question. I think each husband would have to answer that for himself.

[kingbuff]

In the end...12/08 to be exact, this sworn statement was given to Judge Stephens :

Spivey wrote in the affidavit: "I am familiar with other items of fact developed during this investigation that have not been placed in the public record to support a search warrant and, in my opinion, this evidence … indicates that Jason Young was the perpetrator

You're right, rpd. Spivey is very clear about his opinion. No way anyone can misinterpret that. You mention it is a sworn statement. I didn't realize anyone's opinion had to be sworn. But if he did, he did. I still can't help but wonder why/how Spivey blundered into this civil matter. I know that at times witnesses in a civil suit are paid to testify. Some so-called experts make a good living at testifying, or so I have read. Maybe Spivey was paid?

[annalyzer]

In the end...12/08 to be exact, this sworn statement was given to Judge Stephens :

Spivey wrote in the affidavit: "I am familiar with other items of fact developed during this investigation that have not been placed in the public record to support a search warrant and, in my opinion, this evidence … indicates that Jason Young was the perpetrator


Who do you think kept Cassidy clean and away from her mother's blood all those hours when Jason wasn't there?

[kingbuff]

Thanks buff.
I reckon I forgot to clarify my question.
I should have said...sociopathic husbands.

Sorry I didn't understand your question. I stlll don't know how to answer it. Maybe you can answer it.

[MerriMent]

I heard the "friendship" with Meredith started 10/07.

does it include "benefits"???

[MerriMent]

For those here that harp on the details of the 'car keys' and the possibility the Lexus SUV was used to transport Cassidy.....C. Richard Spivey III signed that SW :tonguewag:

He sure did and it was sealed. :thumbsup:

[MerriMent]

I agree. I hope that LE investigated everyone close to Michelle, including Meredith. I don't like to think that LE would give anyone a pass for such a brutal crime.

But the fact that the later SWs didn't focus on Meredith, and the fact that we haven't seen any SWs that specifically target her, make me think that her involvement in this tragedy was peripheral.

JMO

sealed warrants mention inconsistent statements made by Meredith Fisher. I'm not surprised you want to believe it was merely "peripheral"

[kingbuff]

Affidavits are sworn statements :wink:

Thanks, RPD. I think I understand that. I was thrown by his having to swear this was his opinion, as if it might belong to someone else. But maybe he was swearing he saw the evidence before he gave his opinion? Doesn't matter, I think. If we see a criminal crime develop from this case, I doubt Spivey would be allowed to testify.

[MerriMent]

It was sealed to protect the innocent. :glare:

Nothing innocent about Meredith's lies she told to the cops.

[MerriMent]

The lead investigator for 18 months will certainly testify at Jason's murder trial.

You think the many cops that plainly state in SW affidavits that a suspect is likely guilty are not allowed to later testify at trial :blink:

Cops are not allowed to state their opinion at trial.

[MerriMent]

~~~BUMPED~~~

In the end...12/08 to be exact, this sworn statement was given to Judge Stephens :

Spivey wrote in the affidavit: "I am familiar with other items of fact developed during this investigation that have not been placed in the public record to support a search warrant and, in my opinion, this evidence … indicates that Jason Young was the perpetrator

And here we are five days later and Spivey's opinion hasn't managed to result in solving the case, which is supposed to be his JOB.

[MerriMent]

Thanks, RPD. I think I understand that. I was thrown by his having to swear this was his opinion, as if it might belong to someone else. But maybe he was swearing he saw the evidence before he gave his opinion? Doesn't matter, I think. If we see a criminal crime develop from this case, I doubt Spivey would be allowed to testify.

Spivey can't be held accountable for his opinion and if he can't manage to solve the case in all this time, I doubt he remains assigned to it.

[MerriMent]

Nobody.
She got covered in her mother's blood while her father was cleaning himself in the bathroom. Her father then carried her to the hall bath and closed the door while he finished his cover. He then cleaned Cassidy, drugged her, tickled her back until she was fast asleep.

The child was old enough to open doors and refused to stay in her room during the 911 call. Her father was hours away in Virginia. You might want to read up on Tylenol. It doesn't cause sleepiness.

Tickled her back? Is that what Meredith did? Most children do not enjoy being tickled for any length of time.

[kingbuff]

The lead investigator for 18 months will certainly testify at Jason's murder trial.

You think the many cops that plainly state in SW affidavits that a suspect is likely guilty are not allowed to later testify at trial :blink:

Thanks, RPD, for your opinion. I think Spivey was paid as an expert witness to intervene in the civil trial. No facts to back that, but just an opinion. Would his prejudiced testimony be allowed in a criminal trial? I doubt it. If he weren't paid but blundered into the civil trial as a friend of Mrs. Fisher, would his prejudiced testimony be allowed in a criminal trial? I think if I were a defense lawyer I would challenge it. Of course, I'm not a lawyer nor do I play one LOL.

[annalyzer]

He sure did and it was sealed. :thumbsup:


Yes why seal that sw of all of them?

[caffeinated]

The child was old enough to open doors and refused to stay in her room during the 911 call. Her father was hours away in Virginia. You might want to read up on Tylenol. It doesn't cause sleepiness.

Tickled her back? Is that what Meredith did? Most children do not enjoy being tickled for any length of time.

rubbing the back "like it tickles" light pressure with finger tips only...my 10 and 15 yo children still like me to rub their backs that way...might be a "southern" thing...

[MerriMent]

Yes why seal that sw of all of them?

so that Meredith wouldn't know LE had discovered she had lied. She didn't receive the search warrants, Jason did.

[MerriMent]

rubbing the back "like it tickles" light pressure with finger tips only...my 10 and 15 yo children still like me to rub their backs that way...might be a "southern" thing...

rubbing a toddler's back "like it tickles" in order to go to sleep is not an expression I've heard a child say, much less a 15 year old or an adult.

btw, Michelle Young wasn't a southerner.

Tickling is the act of touching a part of the body, so as to cause involuntary twitching movements or laughter. Such sensations can be pleasurable or exciting, but are sometimes considered highly unpleasant, particularly in the case of relentless heavy tickling. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tickle

[kingbuff]

Like I stated when it first came out...I believe they left it sealed because it was barking up the wrong tree. They investigated why Meredith's statements were inconsistent, realized it just had to do with the commotion of the day, and thus nothing more came out of it. But, they chose to keep it sealed as long as they could so that rabid Jason supporters wouldn't jump on it and go nuts (essentially, protect Meredith from more undeserving bashing).

I think we would have seen more search warrants for Meredith's stuff (phone records, computers, etc.)...if ANYTHING would have come of that SW. But, it obviously DIDN'T.

But...alas, it is unsealed and the bashing has commenced (well, continued rather...and at an even more unstomachable level).

Hi, Onederwomyn. That makes sense to me. Spivey has the opinion that Jason is guilty. Why would he release any search warrants aimed at Meredith, or GA friend, or Mrs. Fisher, or anyone else? The police can just withhold those warrants and maybe eventually just discard them. I'm sure the results of those warrants are available to the police, but not to others.

Say, do you get the idea the police don't have much respect for Judge Stephens. Despite the orders the judge issued last summer, the police still handle the search warrants the way they always have. For example, the July 25 warrants were returned....when? I don't remember. Were the July 25 warrants ever sealed? Were they listed in the notebook the judge ordered the clerk to keep updated? One of these days the judge might get peeved and drop the hammer on the police.

[MerriMent]

Like I stated when it first came out...I believe they left it sealed because it was barking up the wrong tree. They investigated why Meredith's statements were inconsistent, realized it just had to do with the commotion of the day, and thus nothing more came out of it. But, they chose to keep it sealed as long as they could so that rabid Jason supporters wouldn't jump on it and go nuts (essentially, protect Meredith from more undeserving bashing).

I think we would have seen more search warrants for Meredith's stuff (phone records, computers, etc.)...if ANYTHING would have come of that SW. But, it obviously DIDN'T.

But...alas, it is unsealed and the bashing has commenced (well, continued rather...and at an even more unstomachable level).


Lying to the cops might be okay to you but I have yet to see a cop, a DA or a jury give it a free pass.

[MerriMent]

I keep seeing where MF was investigated and cleared. Could someone please explain when she was investigated? I haven't seen one warrant with her name on it. Every one was saying they could tell where the investigation was leading by the warrants. So how was MF cleared?

What you're seeing is spin. MF hasn't been cleared. Her apologists want you to believe it's okay to lie to the cops and LE will "clear you" nonetheless. Most adults know that's a myth.

[MerriMent]

Hi, Onederwomyn. That makes sense to me. Spivey has the opinion that Jason is guilty. Why would he release any search warrants aimed at Meredith, or GA friend, or Mrs. Fisher, or anyone else? The police can just withhold those warrants and maybe eventually just discard them. I'm sure the results of those warrants are available to the police, but not to others.

Say, do you get the idea the police don't have much respect for Judge Stephens. Despite the orders the judge issued last summer, the police still handle the search warrants the way they always have. For example, the July 25 warrants were returned....when? I don't remember. Were the July 25 warrants ever sealed? Were they listed in the notebook the judge ordered the clerk to keep updated? One of these days the judge might get peeved and drop the hammer on the police.

I think the DA might do the honors instead of the Judge.

[MerriMent]

The lead detective for the pat 18 months cleared Meredith.
I reckon you just missed the news ?:wink:

Only news I've seen is the lead detective hasn't solved the case anywhere but in his head. A real cowboy, that one.

[MerriMent]

Read on MM.
The case is solved.
Jason Lynn Young has been declared the killer of Michelle.

that and a quarter will get you about 10 minutes on a parking meter.
:thumbsup:

[Leanne Weich]

How long do you think she was awake before the 911 call? The child in the back ground of that call certainly hadn't been drugged. At least not that day. IMOO


http://www.wral.com/news/local/audio/1119462/

I believe she had slept off the effects of any drugs she may have been given. I don't, for one minute, think she was drugged to the point of being comatose but, if she was drugged, was given enough of whatever to ensure she had a good and deep sleep. On that premise, I'd say she would have been her normal self when she awoke. JMVHO.

[Kat4Eagles]

The child was old enough to open doors and refused to stay in her room during the 911 call. Her father was hours away in Virginia. You might want to read up on Tylenol. It doesn't cause sleepiness.

Tickled her back? Is that what Meredith did? Most children do not enjoy being tickled for any length of time.


Omg, I know I am not reading this.
:ohmy:

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

I keep seeing where MF was investigated and cleared. Could someone please explain when she was investigated? I haven't seen one warrant with her name on it. Every one was saying they could tell where the investigation was leading by the warrants. So how was MF cleared?


She hasn't..no one has.
L E has never changed their statement that everyone close to Michelle was being looked at.

The latest s/w's show that.
It is the lead detective's opinion that Jason killed Michelle, but for some reason can not prove it.

So, therefore we go back to looking at everyone again, to see what is missing.

For one thing, Michelle's rings.
Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

What you're seeing is spin. MF hasn't been cleared. Her apologists want you to believe it's okay to lie to the cops and LE will "clear you" nonetheless. Most adults know that's a myth.


Or there is a "revelation".

What a strange choice of words to be used in a search warrant.

I hope it wasn't meant sarcastically .

Why not just say "remembered"?

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

I believe she had slept off the effects of any drugs she may have been given. I don't, for one minute, think she was drugged to the point of being comatose but, if she was drugged, was given enough of whatever to ensure she had a good and deep sleep. On that premise, I'd say she would have been her normal self when she awoke. JMVHO.


How could she be normal anything with her Mother being dead in the same room?

Kat

[Leanne Weich]

How could she be normal anything with her Mother being dead in the same room?

Kat

Please ... at 2 years old, Cassidy didn't know anything more than Michelle was sleeping on the floor and wouldn't wake up, imo.

[JD1974]

Just because I still have questions doesn't mean Jason gets a pass. I don't think it's fair to lump everyone that questions things as a Jason supporter. I hate that you have to be one or the other. I cannot state with 100% certainty that Jason is the ONLY one who could of killed Michelle. We only have one side of the case and that is from LE, who happens to believe Jason is guilty. There is some reason they won't arrest him so why can't those possibilities be discussed?

Sils


This is exactly what I think, I hate being put into a JII lumped group, I am not a JDI or a JII, I am a person who wants to discuss and ask questions and I am sorry but I am also one of those people who don't just take LE at their word, I need proof. I don't care if 10 officers think Jason did this, I wish people would realize that people have been found not guilty and/or charges dropped my DA's all over the country even though LE were positive that was the person who did it. LE are just like us, human.

If all we need in this country if for a DA and officers to say someone is guilty why do we even have a court system, why not just arrest the person and have the DA, LE testify and state they "know" the person did it then pass a sentence? Because sometimes strangely enough DA's and LE can be wrong.


I like to ask questions that maybe a juror would ask, not all people believe that just because a person is charged with a crime they are automatically guilty, then again Jason hasn't even been charged.

Silsbee I am also one who can accept the things that come out against Jason, my question remains though especially about the s/w's if all of the stuff in the search warrants are true, why has he not been arrested? I think since most of the sw's are so old, most of this stuff has been found and/or explained long ago.

[JD1974]

Not sure about the unbiased part. If I were a detective and I became convinced of one person's guilt, I believe I would concentrate my efforts on that person while keeping my mind open to other possibilities. I forget the details in the letter but I remember thinking it strange. Why try to convince others the Fishers were not suspects, assuming that was the purpose of the letter. Or do I have that purpose wrong?


Detectives are human just like we are, I just can't say that I know someone killed someone else because a detective believes it to be so. That's why the Innocence Project keeps getting people released on factual innocence, can you honestly say that the DA, LE didn't think these men were 100% guilty also?

[Kat4Eagles]

Please ... at 2 years old, Cassidy didn't know anything more than Michelle was sleeping on the floor and wouldn't wake up, imo.

:no:

C knew that her Mom had been hurt.
Listen to the 911 call.

Kat

[kingbuff]

You mean the 6/08 procedure order by Judge Stephens that requires all SW's be returned with no delay ?

I reckon you mean the 7-25-07 SW that was held until 6/08 and sealed until 12/08 ? :thumbup:

Thanks, RPD. And I thought I kept up with all the documents in this case. When you get time, would you mind directing me to the seal order of the July 25 warrants? I'm sure I never saw it. I like to think the police are following state law and the judge's order. Thanks.

[Kat4Eagles]

This is exactly what I think, I hate being put into a JII lumped group, I am not a JDI or a JII, I am a person who wants to discuss and ask questions and I am sorry but I am also one of those people who don't just take LE at their word, I need proof. I don't care if 10 officers think Jason did this, I wish people would realize that people have been found not guilty and/or charges dropped my DA's all over the country even though LE were positive that was the person who did it. LE are just like us, human.

If all we need in this country if for a DA and officers to say someone is guilty why do we even have a court system, why not just arrest the person and have the DA, LE testify and state they "know" the person did it then pass a sentence? Because sometimes strangely enough DA's and LE can be wrong.


I like to ask questions that maybe a juror would ask, not all people believe that just because a person is charged with a crime they are automatically guilty, then again Jason hasn't even been charged.

Silsbee I am also one who can accept the things that come out against Jason, my question remains though especially about the s/w's if all of the stuff in the search warrants are true, why has he not been arrested? I think since most of the sw's are so old, most of this stuff has been found and/or explained long ago.


I agree.
:thumbup:

Kat

[JD1974]

If there was evidence that Jason never left the hotel they would not be issuing search warrants on him. With the pictures that LE has shown of JY in the hotel hallway I will not be surprised if they also have pics of him leaving although that does not prove murder. It is just another piece of CE. They still have to put him in the room.

I don't think it is that there is evidence that he never left, I think it is more like they cannot prove that he did. That falls on their shoulders, they have to prove that he left the hotel. So like I said I don't think there is evidence he never left, there just isn't any that he did.

[JD1974]

This isn't the first time that LE has befriended a victim's family. They have seen the carnage done to a victim's family and want to see justice done. Maybe if Jason had talked to LE he would be a friend of Spivey's also.
If it bothers you so much you should encourage him to give the detective a call.



Like Brad Cooper talked to LE? You see where that has gotten him, just for arguments sake let's say Brad isn't guilty..how do you think talking to LE has helped him? Personally I think Jason knew when Michelle was murdered that LE was going to find out everything about what he had been up to, MM being the major thing, THATS why IMO he won't talk to LE, he knew all of this stuff would be found out and it would make him look bad, by talking to LE and that pesky little thing about everything you say can be used against you...I think he did what he thought was best and if he really didn't commit this crime I think he was hoping it would of been solved long before and they wouldn't need him to do it, now that everything is out if he were to talk to LE it would just be a Jason bash fest, trying to get him to slip up on anything possible.

Then again it could be the opposite, he was hoping the stuff about MM wouldn't be found out, the crime would of been solved before then. So when he talked to LE he would of had to spill about the affair etc and if he lied and said there wasn't an affair that would of put him into bigger trouble. Pretty big odds when the other half of the couple is questioned one of the first questions would be, was there trouble in the marriage...

[JD1974]

We know Rhett and MY were good friends. We know Rhett had just broken up with his SO. IIRC his name was Jake. Could he have gone to NY with MY for those two weeks?



That's honestly what I am thinking. Even if he didn't go with Michelle to NY maybe he was thinking of going with her at another time and was looking it up for that reason. Or Rhett was planning a trip himself and he or MY or even Jason looked it up for him. I just really think that is the most likely scenario, instead of Jason being a closet homosexual looking up gay bars in NY.

[alter ego]

Like I stated when it first came out...I believe they left it sealed because it was barking up the wrong tree. They investigated why Meredith's statements were inconsistent, realized it just had to do with the commotion of the day, and thus nothing more came out of it. But, they chose to keep it sealed as long as they could so that rabid Jason supporters wouldn't jump on it and go nuts (essentially, protect Meredith from more undeserving bashing).

I think we would have seen more search warrants for Meredith's stuff (phone records, computers, etc.)...if ANYTHING would have come of that SW. But, it obviously DIDN'T.

But...alas, it is unsealed and the bashing has commenced (well, continued rather...and at an even more unstomachable level).'barking up the wrong tree' and keeping 'rabid Jason supporters from jumping on it and going nuts' are not valid nor legal reasons to ask a court to seal a public document.

[JD1974]

Kat, it seems as though the case has finally gotten some national media coverage:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=6427041&page=1


Ok I was gone for awhile but I noticed this comment in the abc news story...

Fisher, who lives in Sayville, N.Y., where her daughter was raised, said that the headstone on her daughter's grave includes an etching of two hearts, one inside the other to represent her daughter and the unborn Rylan


I thought there was NO headstone, which of course made Jason look guilty for not having one there?

ETA One more thing I found, I really thought I was right about the Tylenol not putting a child to sleep and apparently I was right..now how can a pharm rep NOT know Tylenol will not put a child to sleep. This is also from the link..


"It is further believed that the medication was delivered to the child under the mistaken belief that it would cause drowsiness," read a portion of a search warrant for a DNA swab of Cassidy's cheek, dated July 25, 2007. "Once the child was asleep, the perpetrator would have been able to commit or continue with their attack without worrying about interference from the child."

[alter ego]

Only news I've seen is the lead detective hasn't solved the case anywhere but in his head. A real cowboy, that one.No kidding.

Nothing like delivering a torpedo to the criminal case by swearing under oath just how biased one is.

[alter ego]

Please ... at 2 years old, Cassidy didn't know anything more than Michelle was sleeping on the floor and wouldn't wake up, imo.Well there are some that believe they hear Cassidy say 'she's dead' when referring to her mom in the 911 tape.

Cassidy knew her mommy had boo boo's everywhere and said something about a washcloth. That would tend to show that Cassidy approached her mother's body.

Yet she was said to have been found with no blood on her feet.

I can't get the two to reconcile.

[alter ego]

Ok I was gone for awhile but I noticed this comment in the abc news story...

-snipped-

ETA One more thing I found, I really thought I was right about the Tylenol not putting a child to sleep and apparently I was right..now how can a pharm rep NOT know Tylenol will not put a child to sleep. This is also from the link..


"It is further believed that the medication was delivered to the child under the mistaken belief that it would cause drowsiness," read a portion of a search warrant for a DNA swab of Cassidy's cheek, dated July 25, 2007. "Once the child was asleep, the perpetrator would have been able to commit or continue with their attack without worrying about interference from the child."
Oh, I like the part where Spivey swears to a judge that the evidence he has seen "indicates that Jason Young was the perpetrator."

Indicates.

Not proves.

[Kat4Eagles]

Ok I was gone for awhile but I noticed this comment in the abc news story...

Fisher, who lives in Sayville, N.Y., where her daughter was raised, said that the headstone on her daughter's grave includes an etching of two hearts, one inside the other to represent her daughter and the unborn Rylan


I thought there was NO headstone, which of course made Jason look guilty for not having one there?

ETA One more thing I found, I really thought I was right about the Tylenol not putting a child to sleep and apparently I was right..now how can a pharm rep NOT know Tylenol will not put a child to sleep. This is also from the link..


"It is further believed that the medication was delivered to the child under the mistaken belief that it would cause drowsiness," read a portion of a search warrant for a DNA swab of Cassidy's cheek, dated July 25, 2007. "Once the child was asleep, the perpetrator would have been able to commit or continue with their attack without worrying about interference from the child."

At the 2 year anniversary memorial of Michelle's death, the headstone was unveiled, purchased by L F who in her WD suit is asking for reimbursement from Jason.


Kat

[annalyzer]

Please ... at 2 years old, Cassidy didn't know anything more than Michelle was sleeping on the floor and wouldn't wake up, imo.


The toddler sounds a lot more aware of what has happened to her mother than the adult woman who made the 911 call.

[annalyzer]

'barking up the wrong tree' and keeping 'rabid Jason supporters from jumping on it and going nuts' are not valid nor legal reasons to ask a court to seal a public document.


Exactly. .....

[JD1974]

At the 2 year anniversary memorial of Michelle's death, the headstone was unveiled, purchased by L F who in her WD suit is asking for reimbursement from Jason.


Kat


Oh you know what, I forgot I read that!

[JD1974]

Oh, I like the part where Spivey swears to a judge that the evidence he has seen "indicates that Jason Young was the perpetrator."

Indicates.

Not proves.



I am really confused as to why everyone think Spivey saying the evidence indicates Jason did it is such a smoking gun, obviously they think/thought he did it or else why would they be looking into everything he has done since he was born? Is it because he actually said it in court that it has more weight now? :confused:

[kingbuff]

The 7/07 SW's are old news.
If you want to update yourself on the cop's drug theory, read the 11/08 search warrant. The Tylenol is out, Pancof-PD is in :wink:



A search of the crime scene also found bottles of Tylenol Extra Strength adult cold medicine and Pancof-PD, a drug used to treat cough and nasal congestion associated with upper respiratory tract infections and allergies, in daughter Cassidy’s bedroom, according to the affidavits. Pancof-PD has sleep-inducing side effects.

The medications were located on shelves with children’s vitamins and medications. The safety of the Pancof-PD’s components – chlorpheniramine, dihydrocodeine and phenylephrine – for children younger than 2 has not been established, according to the Web site Drugs.com.

Cassidy Young’s medical records, obtained through a May 29, 2008, court order, showed no mention, prescription or reference to Pancof-PD, investigators said. The records did contain notes of children’s medications, ibuprofen, Tylenol and rash creams, the affidavits continued.

Investigators found Jason Young was a pharmaceutical sales representative for Pan American Laboratories, now known as Pamlab, from March 2002 until January 2005. According to the warrant, company representatives told investigators Jason Young was trained about and represented Pancof-PD.
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/3912962/

And it is your belief that----Sorry, I'm sounding like a lawyer again LOL. Do you believe Jason phoned the killer that night and gave the location of the drug and correct dosage? Do you have any information about when the child was drugged, before the murder or afterward?

[kingbuff]

I forgot the other question I was going to ask. Okay, do you have any information about why the killer put Casidy to bed in the murder room? I've read but don't know for sure that the blood smell in that room would have been pretty strong. I think the other part of that question is do you believe Meredith's story about finding Cassidy?

[kingbuff]

I believe he cleaned her up and put her in her own bed between 3-5 am. She obviously woke up sometime before 1:30 Pm and got in her mom's bed.

Do I believe Meredith found her in her mom's bed at 1:30 PM ?
Why would she lie about that ? Who cares if she was in the bed or walking around when MF came in the house ?

Ok, I have a question for you.
Why was the dog locked up in the garage when Meredith came in ?

I have heard the garage door was not pulled all the way down because something on it was broken. Did someone tell you the dog was locked up?

[Kat4Eagles]

The toddler sounds a lot more aware of what has happened to her mother than the adult woman who made the 911 call.


She sure does!!
Kat

[MerriMent]

All it tells me is the WCSO, after investigating full time for 2 years, believes Jason Young killed Michelle and Rylan.
RC Spivey just happens to be the full time lead investigator for the past 18 months and knows the evidence better than anyone. He executed the 7/07 Search warrants on the Lexus and composed the probable cause that some here believes pointed to MF. 18 months later, the same cop has submitted a sworn statement that says he believes Jason and only Jason is the killer.

Spivey's sworn statement doesn't say Jason and only Jason is the killer anywhere on it but then you know that so why the desperate need for you to pretend?

[Kat4Eagles]

I have heard the garage door was not pulled all the way down because something on it was broken. Did someone tell you the dog was locked up?



But, if the garage door was even partly open, the dog could have got out, or woke the neighbors since he was supposedly freaking out..

Now, I guess someone is going to say the dog was given some cough medicine too.

Too bad, another weekend, no arrest!!

Kat

[Hey Paula]

I was told the automatic opener was broken, not the door itself.
The door was manually closed kinda like the old days.

Yes, someone told me the dog was in the garage.

Hi RPD!

If the dog was in the garage and was "freaking out", perhaps this is when Meredith inadvertently put her keys on Michelle's vehicle. Given the heinous events of the day, Meredith might have forgotten this, and upon seeing a set of keys on the kitchen counter, thought they were hers because that's where she always put them.

IMO

[MerriMent]

I have heard the garage door was not pulled all the way down because something on it was broken. Did someone tell you the dog was locked up?

Meredith said the dog was freaking out but if it was in the garage with an open door it would be roaming around rather than freaking out. It did, after all, live there. CY wasn't freaking out.

On the other hand, maybe Meredith took the child and the dog away from there and the dog was freaking out in the car?

[kingbuff]

But, if the garage door was even partly open, the dog could have got out, or woke the neighbors since he was supposedly freaking out..

Now, I guess someone is going to say the dog was given some cough medicine too.

Too bad, another weekend, no arrest!!

Kat

Hi, Kat. The way I remember it, the door was usually left half open so Michelle could handle it. Someone could have pulled the door all the way down.

[MerriMent]

But, if the garage door was even partly open, the dog could have got out, or woke the neighbors since he was supposedly freaking out..

Now, I guess someone is going to say the dog was given some cough medicine too.

Too bad, another weekend, no arrest!!

Kat

Exactly. An open door and the dog would have walked right out of that garage. Unless, of course, it was closed up in Michelle's car located in the garage. Neighbors wouldn't likely hear it if that were the case.