Michelle Fisher Young murder: Dec. 5/08 >>

[Leanne Weich]

There still is the possibility he had an accomplice. I wonder if that is what is holding up this investigation and arrest.

anna, I've got a feeling we may just see an indictment come Tuesday.

[alter ego]

I'm not sure they could make a positive ID unless they had the license plate number or some defining characteristic like a bashed in fender or something. The information in the PC for the search warrant is to obtain the search warrant. I'm sure they know more than they are telling us and with what they know, the detective believes that Jason is the one responsible. That leads me to believe that it is more likely than not that he is guilty. If Jason has any evidence that shows this isn't true, he should let the investigators know that.

As for the lights on in the house, I have wondered how frantic the situation might have been that night if it was Jason who killed Michelle and Cassidy did wake up at some point and really complicate matters. I've wondered if Jason wouldn't run through the house trying to deal with the situation. Maybe the medicine was kept downstairs in the kitchen and he went down turning on lights as he went. I can see the possibility that he wouldn't have thought to turn them back off before he left. If it was him, his timeline got narrowed down considerably if he had to deal with the child. Obviously just some thoughts not based on evidence but it is one possibility. IMOIt seems apparent that Cassidy did wake at some point and walk thru her mother's blood and then her feet were cleaned. And evidently her feet were clean when LE arrived. So, did the blood she walked thru at one point dry or did she not go near her mom's body and stay in bed?

And was she walking around the home when Meredith arrived or was she in her parent's bed under the sheet?

[Cardinal]

It seems apparent that Cassidy did wake at some point and walk thru her mother's blood and then her feet were cleaned. And evidently her feet were clean when LE arrived. So, did the blood she walked thru at one point dry or did she not go near her mom's body and stay in bed?

And was she walking around the home when Meredith arrived or was she in her parent's bed under the sheet?

I've only spot-checked so I may have missed one, but it appears that the SWs which refer to Cassidy walking around the home were the ones issued immediately after the murder. The ones that refer to her under the sheets came much later. Maybe by the later ones, the exact circumstances had been clarified.

JMO

[annalyzer]

It seems apparent that Cassidy did wake at some point and walk thru her mother's blood and then her feet were cleaned. And evidently her feet were clean when LE arrived. So, did the blood she walked thru at one point dry or did she not go near her mom's body and stay in bed?

And was she walking around the home when Meredith arrived or was she in her parent's bed under the sheet?


Also in the 911 call the child is very apparent of her mother's "boo boos everywhere".

[alter ego]

Sure they do, AE. They testify all the time that, based upon their investigation and the evidence, they had reason to believe that the defendant committed the crime and took some kind of action as a result.

JMONot as it pertains to an investigation where they are trying to determine who the perp is and they are trying to rule someone out. They don't get on the stand and tell a jury they believe the defandent is guilty. It's up to the jury to make that determination.

[annalyzer]

anna, I've got a feeling we may just see an indictment come Tuesday.


I truly hope so. If Jason had an accomplice it would surely come out in the trial. Finally put to rest my suspicions once and for all.

[Cardinal]

Also in the 911 call the child is very apparent of her mother's "boo boos everywhere".

That still breaks my heart. So, the SW says that Cassidy was under the sheets, but it doesn't say whether or not she was asleep. It's obvious from the bloody footprints in her bathroom that she had approached Michelle at some point. And it seems that her feet were cleaned afterward.

Was she left in the bed after she was cleaned up, or did she awaken in her own bed at some point, get up and crawl under the sheets in her mom's bed?

[alter ego]

There still is the possibility he had an accomplice. I wonder if that is what is holding up this investigation and arrest.Yeah, they have to explain the Franklin10 shoe print.

[alter ego]

That still breaks my heart. So, the SW says that Cassidy was under the sheets, but it doesn't say whether or not she was asleep. It's obvious from the bloody footprints in her bathroom that she had approached Michelle at some point. And it seems that her feet were cleaned afterward.

Was she left in the bed after she was cleaned up, or did she awaken in her own bed at some point, get up and crawl under the sheets in her mom's bed?And did she approach her mom's body again? If so, how did she keep from getting blood on her feet?

[Cardinal]

And did she approach her mom's body again? If so, how did she keep from getting blood on her feet?

So maybe she was asleep until Meredith arrived, and didn't approach Michelle again after her feet were cleaned. But that brings up the sedation question again. IF she were sedated, the fact that the medicines were still in her room makes me think that she would have been put back to bed in her own room. But then, she obviously woke up at some point and got in the other bed.

This part has me going in circles.

[annalyzer]

So maybe she was asleep until Meredith arrived, and didn't approach Michelle again after her feet were cleaned. But that brings up the sedation question again. IF she were sedated, the fact that the medicines were still in her room makes me think that she would have been put back to bed in her own room. But then, she obviously woke up at some point and got in the other bed.

This part has me going in circles.


She doesn't sound like a toddler who had just awoke in that 911 call. Especially a toddler who had been drugged to sleep.

[sayvillegrad92]

just to throw something out there as well cassidy may have cleaned off her own feet at some time. Wasn't there some conversations of her with a wash cloth trying to clean her moms boo boos? I know my kids knew how to wioe off there own feet if they stepped in something at two and and half.
I am sure cassidy is a victim in all of this and she may have seen more then we are aware of. The mind would of repressed this to protect her. In years from now maybe she will remember it.

[Cardinal]

She doesn't sound like a toddler who had just awoke in that 911 call. Especially a toddler who had been drugged to sleep.

No she doesn't. So maybe she awoke in her own bed, went into Michelle's bedroom, couldn't wake her, so she crawled into the bed.

This really upsets me.

[Leanne Weich]

She doesn't sound like a toddler who had just awoke in that 911 call. Especially a toddler who had been drugged to sleep.

I'm not so sure Cassidy was drugged to sleep per se. I think the murderer probably gave her something that would ensure she would sleep deeply for a while and may have laid with her until she fell asleep. If she woke up to a fight in progress, I could see her crying herself to sleep quite quickly if all became quiet and someone stayed with her soothing her. By the time Meredith arrived, she could very well have slept off the effects of whatever she was given, imo.

[Lindsey]

Did you see Lindsey's question yesterday about the little bloody footprints "all over the place"? If there were no little bloody footprints visible why did MF say that in the 911 call?

Thank you Anna. I'm still trying to figure that one out. That bathroom is an interior room with no window to let light in, IIRC.

[Lindsey]

The hall bath that was described as Cassidy's bathroom was right across the hall from the master bedroom door. It's my understanding that there were footprints everywhere on that floor. If that is where Meredith was looking while she was standing outside the master bedroom door talking to the 911 operator, I can see how she would make that statement.


Do you have a link to the floorplan? I saw one way back but don't remember where it was. I believe MF would just about have to be standing on the top step of the stairs to look into that bathroom, if IRC. And the light would have to be on too.


IMO

[annalyzer]

just to throw something out there as well cassidy may have cleaned off her own feet at some time. Wasn't there some conversations of her with a wash cloth trying to clean her moms boo boos? I know my kids knew how to wioe off there own feet if they stepped in something at two and and half.
I am sure cassidy is a victim in all of this and she may have seen more then we are aware of. The mind would of repressed this to protect her. In years from now maybe she will remember it.

There should have been some messy evidence of that.

[Lindsey]

No she doesn't. So maybe she awoke in her own bed, went into Michelle's bedroom, couldn't wake her, so she crawled into the bed.

This really upsets me.

If she tried to wake Michelle, she would have covered in blood. She would not have just stood at a distance and called Mommy.

Why was CY clean, not hungry, not thirsty, and didn't seem to be upset at 1:25 PM ?

[Lindsey]

just to throw something out there as well cassidy may have cleaned off her own feet at some time. Wasn't there some conversations of her with a wash cloth trying to clean her moms boo boos? I know my kids knew how to wioe off there own feet if they stepped in something at two and and half.
I am sure cassidy is a victim in all of this and she may have seen more then we are aware of. The mind would of repressed this to protect her. In years from now maybe she will remember it.

I think what you're remembering is Cassidy mentioned wash cloth and boo boos in the background of the 911 call. Other posters might have added to that and thought she was trying to clean her mom's boo boos but again she would have been covered in blood when found. She wasn't.

[annalyzer]

If she tried to wake Michelle, she would have covered in blood. She would not have just stood at a distance and called Mommy.

Why was CY clean, not hungry, not thirsty, and didn't seem to be upset at 1:25 PM ?

What time would Jason have to leave the house to make it to wherever he went? In other words, I want to know how many hours was Cassidy supposedly alone in that house?

Also the dog isn't mentioned anywhere in the sw's. Was the dog bloody, bloody pawprints everywhere, and if not, why?

[Cardinal]

If she tried to wake Michelle, she would have covered in blood. She would not have just stood at a distance and called Mommy.

Why was CY clean, not hungry, not thirsty, and didn't seem to be upset at 1:25 PM ?

Where does it say she wasn't hungry or thirsty?

[Silsbee]

just to throw something out there as well cassidy may have cleaned off her own feet at some time. Wasn't there some conversations of her with a wash cloth trying to clean her moms boo boos? I know my kids knew how to wioe off there own feet if they stepped in something at two and and half.
I am sure cassidy is a victim in all of this and she may have seen more then we are aware of. The mind would of repressed this to protect her. In years from now maybe she will remember it.


That doesn't explain no blood trail to the bathroom though. How did her bathroom end up with blood all over it but no trail of her going in?

Sils

[annalyzer]

Where does it say she wasn't hungry or thirsty?


I don't hear her asking for something to drink or eat on the 911 call.

[Silsbee]

Thank you Anna. I'm still trying to figure that one out. That bathroom is an interior room with no window to let light in, IIRC.


Hi Lindsey,
Well they did say all of the lights were on so maybe the bathroom light was on when she got there. Wasn't there a rumor about blood being located by the light switch?

Sils

[Silsbee]

If she tried to wake Michelle, she would have covered in blood. She would not have just stood at a distance and called Mommy.

Why was CY clean, not hungry, not thirsty, and didn't seem to be upset at 1:25 PM ?

This bothers me considerably... She really didn't sound drugged when Meredith was on the phone with 911. How was she prevented from approaching her mother again after the killer left? There are still so many questions I have.

Sils

[Cardinal]

I don't hear her asking for something to drink or eat on the 911 call.

I can't understand much of what she says on the 911 call, but that's only a few minutes. I don't think that's definitive proof of whether or not she was hungry or thirsty.

[Lindsey]

What time would Jason have to leave the house to make it to wherever he went? In other words, I want to know how many hours was Cassidy supposedly alone in that house?

Also the dog isn't mentioned anywhere in the sw's. Was the dog bloody, bloody pawprints everywhere, and if not, why?

I believe it's been stated Raleigh is close to 3 hrs from the HI and another 2 1/2 from there to his meeting. I'm still curious to see where he was at 7:49 am Friday when he made the call to MM.

If JY went back home that night and killed Michelle, it seems he would have had to leave Raleigh again no later than 5:00 am. That would put Cassidy in the house alone for 8 1/2 hours ?

We heard some things about the dog in the early days but all those posts are gone now. You're right tho, I didn't see any mention of the dog in the SWs.

[Cardinal]

That doesn't explain no blood trail to the bathroom though. How did her bathroom end up with blood all over it but no trail of her going in?

Sils

Hello, Silsbee. :smile: It's good to see you.

The only explanation that makes sense to me is that she was carried to the bathroom.

[Lindsey]

Where does it say she wasn't hungry or thirsty?

I believe a neighbor said that in the early days. The same neighbor whose house MF and CY went to after help arrived. I don't have a link.

[Silsbee]

What time would Jason have to leave the house to make it to wherever he went? In other words, I want to know how many hours was Cassidy supposedly alone in that house?

Also the dog isn't mentioned anywhere in the sw's. Was the dog bloody, bloody pawprints everywhere, and if not, why?


Those are great questions Anna. I am wondering too how long Cassie was by herself? Why was she in Michelle's bed and not her own - if the killer put her there? It just doesn't make sense. What was the killer trying to accomplish in regards to Cassie? In other words - did they intend for her to stay away from her mother or just stay out of the way? That's just one of many questions.

I too wonder if the dog had blood - I don't think he did. IMO

Sils

[Silsbee]

Hello, Silsbee. :smile: It's good to see you.

The only explanation that makes sense to me is that she was carried to the bathroom.

Hi Card,
Yes I definitely think she was carried but why??

Sils

[MerriMent]

The hall bath that was described as Cassidy's bathroom was right across the hall from the master bedroom door. It's my understanding that there were footprints everywhere on that floor. If that is where Meredith was looking while she was standing outside the master bedroom door talking to the 911 operator, I can see how she would make that statement.

The search warrant contradicts "your understanding" and LE didn't find "footprints everywhere." It's my understanding that the inside of Cassidy's bathroom can not be seen from the doorway of the master bedroom.

[Lindsey]

Hi Lindsey,
Well they did say all of the lights were on so maybe the bathroom light was on when she got there. Wasn't there a rumor about blood being located by the light switch?

Sils

Hey Sils,

Yes, I believe there was. I had forgotten the blood by the light switch. Have we seen anything about the lights in the SWs, other than the newspaper delivery driver's account?

Good to see you again.

[Silsbee]

The search warrant contradicts "your understanding" and LE didn't find "footprints everywhere." It's my understanding that the inside of Cassidy's bathroom can not be seen from the doorway of the master bedroom.

I am not familiar with where her bathroom is located. Would she have to walk past the master bedroom to see inside the bathroom?

Sils

[Cardinal]

Hi Card,
Yes I definitely think she was carried but why??

Sils

I don't think the killer was in the room when Cassidy entered and approached her mother, getting her feet bloody, because I don't think she'd have been allowed to get that close. So if the killer returned to the room and found Cassidy standing next to Michelle, it was probably a natural reaction to pick her up and carry her to her bathroom to clean the blood from her feet.

JMO

[Silsbee]

Hey Sils,

Yes, I believe there was. I had forgotten the blood by the light switch. Have we seen anything about the lights in the SWs, other than the newspaper delivery driver's account?

Good to see you again.

Good to see you to Lindsey,
No I don't believe there was any other mention of the lights that I recall but I have been busy lately so I could have missed it.

Sils

[Silsbee]

I don't think the killer was in the room when Cassidy entered and approached her mother, getting her feet bloody, because I don't think she'd have been allowed to get that close. So if the killer returned to the room and found Cassidy standing next to Michelle, it was probably a natural reaction to pick her up and carry her to her bathroom to clean the blood from her feet.

JMO

That makes sense but how did she stay out of the blood from that moment on? The SW indicates the killer may have given Cassie the Tylenol with the "mistaken" belief it would make her drowsy. So was this before she got in the blood? And if it didn't have the effect that was intended and Jason is the killer how did she stay clean for all those hours?

Sils

[MerriMent]

I believe Spivey did that as well, and those facts are what the judge based his decision on. But they also testify as to their conclusions based on the evidence, do they not?


The Judge made his decision on Spivey's opinion, not Spivey's facts because Spivey didn't present facts. Neither Jason nor his attorney showed, leaving the Judge no choice but to declare Jason the slayer and directing the life insurance proceeds be paid to the next beneficiary if one is designated. Considering the insurance policy was obtained when Michelle was pregnant with another child, it's likely Cassidy Young, minor child of Jason and Michelle Young, is listed as a beneficiary on the policy.

[Lindsey]

I am not familiar with where her bathroom is located. Would she have to walk past the master bedroom to see inside the bathroom?

Sils

There is a floorplan out there somewhere. Maybe someone will be kind enough to post a link to it. Do we know whether MF used the back stairs or the front stairs? It's been posted both ways I think.

[sayvillegrad92]

I know there is lots of questions i still have it seems like they will not be answered until all the evidence is out there for all of us to see.

[MerriMent]

I am not familiar with where her bathroom is located. Would she have to walk past the master bedroom to see inside the bathroom?

Sils

Yes. The door to the master bedroom was at the top of the stairs, immediately to the left. To get to the bath, MF needed to turn right at the top of the stairs and then right again and walk several feet parallel to the stairwell to see into the bathroom doorway.

[Cardinal]

That makes sense but how did she stay out of the blood from that moment on? The SW indicates the killer may have given Cassie the Tylenol with the "mistaken" belief it would make her drowsy. So was this before she got in the blood? And if it didn't have the effect that was intended and Jason is the killer how did she stay clean for all those hours?

Sils

I don't know, Silsbee. There's still a lot of this that doesn't fit together for me.

[MerriMent]

I don't think the killer was in the room when Cassidy entered and approached her mother, getting her feet bloody, because I don't think she'd have been allowed to get that close. So if the killer returned to the room and found Cassidy standing next to Michelle, it was probably a natural reaction to pick her up and carry her to her bathroom to clean the blood from her feet.

JMO

Please explain how Cassidy, supposedly alone in the house for hours, would return to that bedroom and rather than again approach her mother, would remain perfectly clean and crawl under the covers instead? LE don't seem to believe that's what happened.

[Cardinal]

The Judge made his decision on Spivey's opinion, not Spivey's facts because Spivey didn't present facts. Neither Jason nor his attorney showed, leaving the Judge no choice but to declare Jason the slayer and directing the life insurance proceeds be paid to the next beneficiary if one is designated. Considering the insurance policy was obtained when Michelle was pregnant with another child, it's likely Cassidy Young, minor child of Jason and Michelle Young, is listed as a beneficiary on the policy.

You can't know what Spivey presented.

[MerriMent]

There is a floorplan out there somewhere. Maybe someone will be kind enough to post a link to it. Do we know whether MF used the back stairs or the front stairs? It's been posted both ways I think.

I've got a hard copy, not a link, but use of either stairway still had the master bedroom in the first line of vision, not the bathroom.

[MerriMent]

You can't know what Spivey presented.

Yes, I do know. I read his affidavit.

[MerriMent]

That makes sense but how did she stay out of the blood from that moment on? The SW indicates the killer may have given Cassie the Tylenol with the "mistaken" belief it would make her drowsy. So was this before she got in the blood? And if it didn't have the effect that was intended and Jason is the killer how did she stay clean for all those hours?

Sils

LE stated the most reasonable explanation is that CY was removed from the home for a period of time. I have yet to see a more reasonable explanation than that, have you?

[jerry50]

I truly hope so. If Jason had an accomplice it would surely come out in the trial. Finally put to rest my suspicions once and for all.

If he had an accomplice do you think that they had something to do with the actual murder or were more like accessories after the fact?

[Lindsey]

I know there is lots of questions i still have it seems like they will not be answered until all the evidence is out there for all of us to see.

I agree with that and it can't happen too soon for me.

[Cardinal]

Yes, I do know. I read his affidavit.

Then you read the part that says:

"I am familiar with other items of fact developed during this investigation that have not been placed in the public record to support a search warrant, and, in my opinion, this evidence, [emphasis added] together with the facts set forth in Exhibits A and B indicates that Jason Young was the perpetrator. Since our investigation is ongoing, it is important that I not recite facts beyond those in Exhibits A and B."

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/12/05/4088438/20081205190702957.pdf

You don't know what facts he presented that were not in Exhibits A and B.

[Lindsey]

Please explain how Cassidy, supposedly alone in the house for hours, would return to that bedroom and rather than again approach her mother, would remain perfectly clean and crawl under the covers instead? LE don't seem to believe that's what happened.

As a mother and now a grandmother, I can't believe it either.

[MerriMent]

If she tried to wake Michelle, she would have covered in blood. She would not have just stood at a distance and called Mommy.

Why was CY clean, not hungry, not thirsty, and didn't seem to be upset at 1:25 PM ?

The only reasonable explanation as to why CY was clean, not hungry, not thirsty and wasn't upset is that someone took care of her to prevent that from happening up to the very point the 911 call was made.

[MerriMent]

Then you read the part that says:

"I am familiar with other items of fact developed during this investigation that have not been placed in the public record to support a search warrant, and, in my opinion, this evidence, [emphasis added] together with the facts set forth in Exhibits A and B indicates that Jason Young was the perpetrator. Since our investigation is ongoing, it is important that I not recite facts beyond those in Exhibits A and B."

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/12/05/4088438/20081205190702957.pdf

You don't know what facts he presented that were not in Exhibits A and B.

He refers to "this evidence" but he doesn't present the evidence. I'm not sure why you can't understand he didn't have to present the evidence because neither Jason nor his attorney showed up.

[Silsbee]

I don't know, Silsbee. There's still a lot of this that doesn't fit together for me.

I agree Cardinal, I am still waiting for that moment when all doubts are gone. Hasn't happened yet even though there is a lot that points to Jason. I want to know exactly how he got from point A (planning, etc) to point B (accomplishing, etc).

I never considered this murder to be planned ahead but that appears to be what LE thinks but I don't get why some things appear to be planned well while others are poorly thought out.

Sils

[MerriMent]

If he had an accomplice do you think that they had something to do with the actual murder or were more like accessories after the fact?

Somebody took care of CY. Somebody carried her to the bathroom and removed her bloody socks and washed her up. That is the only reasonable explanation for her remaining clean for hours to the point LE arrived.

[Cardinal]

He refers to "this evidence" but he doesn't present the evidence. I'm not sure why you can't understand he didn't have to present the evidence because neither Jason nor his attorney showed up.

Because the judgment says that Judge Stephens relied particularly upon Spiveys 3 affidavits (A, B and the non-public one) to make his decision - "...[d]ue to the gravity of the Complaint's most material allegation...."

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/12/05/4088144/32274-20081205174636577.pdf

But you can believe what you like.

[alter ego]

You can't know what Spivey presented.

It says right in his affidavit to the court that the probable cause affidavits from the the 2/13/08 and 11/6/08 warrants plus, as Spivey puts it, other facts that can't be revealed cuz it's still an ongoing investigation.

[Cardinal]

I agree Cardinal, I am still waiting for that moment when all doubts are gone. Hasn't happened yet even though there is a lot that points to Jason. I want to know exactly how he got from point A (planning, etc) to point B (accomplishing, etc).

I never considered this murder to be planned ahead but that appears to be what LE thinks but I don't get why some things appear to be planned well while others are poorly thought out.

Sils

I want to know the whole sequence too. And I'm still not 100% convinced it was premeditated - especially because, as you say, the "planning" is inconsistent IMO.

[alter ego]

Because the judgment says that Judge Stephens relied particularly upon Spiveys 3 affidavits (A, B and the non-public one) to make his decision - "...[d]ue to the gravity of the Complaint's most material allegation...."

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/12/05/4088144/32274-20081205174636577.pdf

But you can believe what you like.
Here is the affidavit Spivey gave to the court. Exhibit A and B are the probable cause portions of SWs. There is no 3rd nonpublic affidavit.

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/12/05/4088438/20081205190702957.pdf

[MerriMent]

As a mother and now a grandmother, I can't believe it either.

From what is contained in the search warrants released yesterday, it is an impossibility that Jason Young committed this crime without the help of an accomplice.

[Lindsey]

I agree Cardinal, I am still waiting for that moment when all doubts are gone. Hasn't happened yet even though there is a lot that points to Jason. I want to know exactly how he got from point A (planning, etc) to point B (accomplishing, etc).

I never considered this murder to be planned ahead but that appears to be what LE thinks but I don't get why some things appear to be planned well while others are poorly thought out.

Sils

Well said and ITA.

Now I have to go to a Christmas event. Hope you're here later.

[Cardinal]

It says right in his affidavit to the court that the probable cause affidavits from the the 2/13/08 and 11/6/08 warrants plus, as Spivey puts it, other facts that can't be revealed cuz it's still an ongoing investigation.

Yes, it does, which is exactly my point. MerriMent's point OTOH was that Spivey didn't present any facts.

[MerriMent]

Because the judgment says that Judge Stephens relied particularly upon Spiveys 3 affidavits (A, B and the non-public one) to make his decision - "...[d]ue to the gravity of the Complaint's most material allegation...."

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/12/05/4088144/32274-20081205174636577.pdf

But you can believe what you like.

He didn't reveal non-public facts to the judge. Sheesh, you're in denial.

[MerriMent]

Yes, it does, which is exactly my point. MerriMent's point OTOH was that Spivey didn't present any facts.

My point was that Spivey didn't present any non-public facts. He didn't have to.

[Cardinal]

Here is the affidavit Spivey gave to the court. Exhibit A and B are the probable cause portions of SWs. There is no 3rd nonpublic affidavit.

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/12/05/4088438/20081205190702957.pdf


You are right AE. I stand corrected.

[Cardinal]

He didn't reveal non-public facts to the judge. Sheesh, you're in denial.

Why would I be in denial? I have nothing at stake here personally. I just want to see justice for Michelle and Rylan.

[MerriMent]

It says right in his affidavit to the court that the probable cause affidavits from the the 2/13/08 and 11/6/08 warrants plus, as Spivey puts it, other facts that can't be revealed cuz it's still an ongoing investigation.


Interesting how some of those "other facts" were suddenly revealed yesterday. How did the child remain "clean" all those many hours Jason can prove he was in Virginia?

[Cardinal]

Interesting how some of those "other facts" were suddenly revealed yesterday. How did the child remain "clean" all those many hours Jason can prove he was in Virginia?

So, what's your theory?

[Silsbee]

LE stated the most reasonable explanation is that CY was removed from the home for a period of time. I have yet to see a more reasonable explanation than that, have you?

No, I can't say that I have but if she was removed when was she returned and by whom?

If it was Jason - how did he have the time? Where did he take her and for what purpose did he remove her from the home? The more interaction with her the more I think Cassidy would have talked about Daddy being with her.

If it was Meredith - where did they go and for how long? What would be her purpose in taking Cassidy and if she is somehow involved wouldn't taking Cassie be a bad idea? If it hadn't been for the convenient phone call from Jason how would she explain them being together? Same thing applies to Meredith in regards to interaction with the child. Even more so since it would have been out of the ordinary for her to leave with her.

Maybe this is why she was drugged (if she was drugged)? Maybe the drugging was not to prevent her from interfering but to prevent her from knowing she left the home. Just a thought. I just don't get the reasons behind taking Cassidy out of the house.

Sils

[Silsbee]

Somebody took care of CY. Somebody carried her to the bathroom and removed her bloody socks and washed her up. That is the only reasonable explanation for her remaining clean for hours to the point LE arrived.

It certainly appears that way. The size 10 shoe also indicates a second person could be involved. No wonder LE said this case is complicated.

Sils

[alter ego]

Yes, it does, which is exactly my point. MerriMent's point OTOH was that Spivey didn't present any facts.I agree that he didn't present any facts that prove murder. He gave his opinion as to who killed Michelle.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

I agree that he didn't present any facts that prove murder. He gave his opinion as to who killed Michelle.

The order talks about his training and experience. Where is that listed or described?

[MerriMent]

No, I can't say that I have but if she was removed when was she returned and by whom?

If it was Jason - how did he have the time? Where did he take her and for what purpose did he remove her from the home? The more interaction with her the more I think Cassidy would have talked about Daddy being with her.

If it was Meredith - where did they go and for how long? What would be her purpose in taking Cassidy and if she is somehow involved wouldn't taking Cassie be a bad idea? If it hadn't been for the convenient phone call from Jason how would she explain them being together? Same thing applies to Meredith in regards to interaction with the child. Even more so since it would have been out of the ordinary for her to leave with her.

Maybe this is why she was drugged (if she was drugged)? Maybe the drugging was not to prevent her from interfering but to prevent her from knowing she left the home. Just a thought. I just don't get the reasons behind taking Cassidy out of the house.

Sils

Jason would have no reason to take Cassidy any where, much less in Michelle's car. I've also seen no evidence that Jason wanted to end his marriage.

If it was Meredith, and these latest search warrants point right at her, the purpose could have been to dispose of the murder weapon, take an accomplice home. It was the middle of the night and nobody was around who would really take note of Michelle's car. The newspaper delivery person was the exception. Meredith would not want to leave the child alone in the house with her mother's body while she did these things. If CY had received adult-strength Tylenol, her ability to remember would be impaired because it's a pain killer.

[Cardinal]

I agree that he didn't present any facts that prove murder. He gave his opinion as to who killed Michelle.

Regardless, it was enough for the judgment to be entered. Whether or not Jason killed Michelle, the slayer statute now applies and Jason is not entitled to any of Michelle's assets.

[alter ego]

You are right AE. I stand corrected.No worries, the way some of the articles and SWs are worded, it gets rather confusing.

[Cardinal]

Jason would have no reason to take Cassidy any where, much less in Michelle's car. I've also seen no evidence that Jason wanted to end his marriage.

If it was Meredith, and these latest search warrants point right at her, the purpose could have been to dispose of the murder weapon, take an accomplice home. It was the middle of the night and nobody was around who would really take note of Michelle's car. The newspaper delivery person was the exception. Meredith would not want to leave the child alone in the house with her mother's body while she did these things. If CY had received adult-strength Tylenol, her ability to remember would be impaired because it's a pain killer.

Why wouldn't Meredith use her own car?

[annalyzer]

Why wouldn't Meredith use her own car?


Baby car seat?........

[MerriMent]

So, what's your theory?

Meredith knew Jason was gone and she and an accomplice entered the house to steal valuables and Michelle awakened.

[Jester]

From what is contained in the search warrants released yesterday, it is an impossibility that Jason Young committed this crime without the help of an accomplice.

I can see the following as a possible scenario:

Jason returned to the house, murdered Michelle, took a shower to clean up, Cassidy woke up, came into the bedroom, and tracked blood around the room while he was in the shower. He came out of the shower, and put Cassidy in her bathroom while he got dressed, cleaned up, and staged a robbery. Cassidy would have been upset and struggling, which explains blood on the wall and door of the bathroom. Jason then took her out of her bathroom, back to the master bathroom, where he washed her feet. This accounts for the blood smear on the wall in the master bathroom shower. He took Cassidy to her own bedroom, and gave her medication to make her sleep. After she fell asleep, he put her in his bedroom on his side of the bed, where she was found by Meredith that afternoon. This accounts for the second shoe print, as Jason was now dressed for work. He was also much later than he planned, and in his rush he forgot about the medication in Cassidy's room. This also explains the delay that caused him to be late for his meeting, and also coincides with the sighting of a vehicle similar to his by a delivery person in the early hours of the morning.

As a pharmaceutical rep, Jason may have known how long it would take for the drugs to wear off, which accounts for Jason calling Meredith at 12:10 in the afternoon. He didn't want Cassidy to be found in a drugged condition, so by waiting 6-8 hours, he could be sure that she no longer appeared drugged.

The crime could have been committed by one person if that person was Jason. No stranger would have gone through the trouble of settling Cassidy after the murder, and it's unlikely an accomplice would have waited around a murder scene while dad settled his daughter.

[alter ego]

Regardless, it was enough for the judgment to be entered. Whether or not Jason killed Michelle, the slayer statute now applies and Jason is not entitled to any of Michelle's assets.
But will it be enough to hold on appeal if it's appealed?

The burden of proof in civil matter is lower than in criminal matters but I sure thought it was higher than an opinion of who is guilty from a police officer.

[MerriMent]

Why wouldn't Meredith use her own car?

I don't believe Meredith's car was right there to use.

[Cardinal]

Baby car seat?........

She just bludgeoned her sister and drugged her niece and she's worried about a car seat? Besides, wasn't the garage door broken? Wouldn't that have made it more difficult to get Michelle's car out of the garage? Why bother?

[BSNBREVARDNC]

But will it be enough to hold on appeal if it's appealed?

The burden of proof in civil matter is lower than in criminal matters but I sure thought it was higher than an opinion of who is guilty from a police officer.


That’s why I was wondering about the training and experience of the officer that the judge speaks about in the order.

[Cardinal]

But will it be enough to hold on appeal if it's appealed?

The burden of proof in civil matter is lower than in criminal matters but I sure thought it was higher than an opinion of who is guilty from a police officer.

I don't think it will be appealed. That would be more expensive than contesting it in the first place.

JMO

[Cardinal]

I don't believe Meredith's car was right there to use.

Fine, then why not just use the accomplice's car?

[alter ego]

The order talks about his training and experience. Where is that listed or described?
where is what listed or described?

[MerriMent]

She just bludgeoned her sister and drugged her niece and she's worried about a car seat? Besides, wasn't the garage door broken? Wouldn't that have made it more difficult to get Michelle's car out of the garage? Why bother?

Meredith's car wasn't there, imo. Michelle managed to get her car in and out of the garage. The door was not broken, the automatic opener was broken. No big deal to get it open.

[Silsbee]

I agree that he didn't present any facts that prove murder. He gave his opinion as to who killed Michelle.

If he could do that then he should be able to arrest him, right?

Sils

[Cardinal]

I can see the following as a possible scenario:

Jason returned to the house, murdered Michelle, took a shower to clean up, Cassidy woke up, came into the bedroom, and tracked blood around the room while he was in the shower. He came out of the shower, and put Cassidy in her bathroom while he got dressed, cleaned up, and staged a robbery. Cassidy would have been upset and struggling, which explains blood on the wall and door of the bathroom. Jason then took her out of her bathroom, back to the master bathroom, where he washed her feet. This accounts for the blood smear on the wall in the master bathroom shower. He took Cassidy to her own bedroom, and gave her medication to make her sleep. After she fell asleep, he put her in his bedroom on his side of the bed, where she was found by Meredith that afternoon. This accounts for the second shoe print, as Jason was now dressed for work. He was also much later than he planned, and in his rush he forgot about the medication in Cassidy's room. This also explains the delay that caused him to be late for his meeting, and also coincides with the sighting of a vehicle similar to his by a delivery person in the early hours of the morning.

As a pharmaceutical rep, Jason may have known how long it would take for the drugs to wear off, which accounts for Jason calling Meredith at 12:10 in the afternoon. He didn't want Cassidy to be found in a drugged condition, so by waiting 6-8 hours, he could be sure that she no longer appeared drugged.

The crime could have been committed by one person if that person was Jason. No stranger would have gone through the trouble of settling Cassidy after the murder, and it's unlikely an accomplice would have waited around a murder scene while dad settled his daughter.

Possible, imo. I've had similar thoughts.

[Cardinal]

Meredith's car wasn't there, imo. Michelle managed to get her car in and out of the garage. The door was not broken, the automatic opener was broken. No big deal to get it open.

Again, why not just use the accomplice's car?

[BSNBREVARDNC]

where is what listed or described?


The last sentence in #6 of the Judgement.

The training and experience of the officer that the judge speaks about in the order.

Where is it listed?

[MerriMent]

Fine, then why not just use the accomplice's car?

imo, whatever car Meredith and her accomplice arrived in was parked a distance away, not in the driveway where somebody might see it and take note of it.

[MerriMent]

I don't think it will be appealed. That would be more expensive than contesting it in the first place.

JMO

He has no need to appeal it if the life ins money goes to the next beneficiary, his minor child. The only reason to appeal is if it goes to the estate and I doubt it will.

[annalyzer]

She just bludgeoned her sister and drugged her niece and she's worried about a car seat? Besides, wasn't the garage door broken? Wouldn't that have made it more difficult to get Michelle's car out of the garage? Why bother?


No, I believe Jason killed Michelle.

[Jester]

The last sentence in #6 of the Judgement.

I've been wondering if defaulting on the wrongful death claim didn't have an upside for Jason. He could not get the insurance money on his own without being questioned, and he does not want to answer any questions. If Linda applies for the insurance money, then the funds become a little more accessible to Jason. He can apply to receive some of the funds for Cassidy's day to day care from Linda. It looks like it could be in Jason's favor to have Linda have the insurance money released.

Being named a Slayer is only a small problem, as he will remain free until he is convicted in a trial.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

imo, whatever car Meredith and her accomplice arrived in was parked a distance away, not in the driveway where somebody might see it and take note of it.

So you think Meredith helped Jason?

[Cardinal]

imo, whatever car Meredith and her accomplice arrived in was parked a distance away, not in the driveway where somebody might see it and take note of it.

So instead they use Michelle's car, which someone might see and take note of? Not to mention the risk of being seen driving it wherever they were going. Or being pulled over. Besides, if they used Michelle's car, they would have left trace evidence. The car was searched for trace evidence. If LE thought Meredith was guilty and found indications of the crime in that car, Meredith would have been arrested by now.

JMO

[Jester]

Possible, imo. I've had similar thoughts.

The scenario explains the facts that are known, yet leaves Jason as the most likely suspect.

[JHP]

I don't think it will be appealed. That would be more expensive than contesting it in the first place.

JMO

If Jason were to appeal I would think the Judge would just throw it out. Because Jason and his attorney didn't answer the civil suit in the first place.

JMO

[Cardinal]

He has no need to appeal it if the life ins money goes to the next beneficiary, his minor child. The only reason to appeal is if it goes to the estate and I doubt it will.

If Jason were only concerned that the LI proceeds go to Cassidy, he could have renounced his interest in favor of her long ago.

[Jester]

If Jason were to appeal I would think the Judge would just throw it out. Because Jason and his attorney didn't answer the civil suit in the first place.

JMO

There have to be reasonable grounds to appeal, and not showing up doesn't sound like reasonable grounds.

[annalyzer]

The scenario explains the facts that are known, yet leaves Jason as the most likely suspect.

Why would Jason put the child in the bloody bedroom with her dead mother instead of in her own bed?

[Cardinal]

No, I believe Jason killed Michelle.

It certainly looks like it, doesn't it? Do you think someone removed Cassidy from the house?

[MerriMent]

I've been wondering if defaulting on the wrongful death claim didn't have an upside for Jason. He could not get the insurance money on his own without being questioned, and he does not want to answer any questions. If Linda applies for the insurance money, then the funds become a little more accessible to Jason. He can apply to receive some of the funds for Cassidy's day to day care from Linda. It looks like it could be in Jason's favor to have Linda have the insurance money released.

Being named a Slayer is only a small problem, as he will remain free until he is convicted in a trial.

imo, the default has a tremendous upside for Jason and that's why I think his attorney chose this strategy. The Judge's ruling makes it clear the life insurance will be paid to the next beneficiary and only if there are none does it go to the estate. If CY is listed as a beneficiary, Jason controls her money.

[alter ego]

I don't think it will be appealed. That would be more expensive than contesting it in the first place.

JMOI don't think it would be more. Same amt of research into case law.

[Jester]

If Jason were only concerned that the LI proceeds go to Cassidy, he could have renounced his interest in favor of her long ago.

If he had renounced his interest, could he have had access to any of the funds for Cassidy's day to day care? Do you know if he would if Linda has the funds?

[JHP]

So you think Meredith helped Jason?

Hi BSNBREVARDNC How are things in Brevard? Is there anything going on?

[annalyzer]

So you think Meredith helped Jason?



Let's see now, the very strange 911 call, the massive weight loss after the murder, Jason telling MM that MF counseled him on his relationship with Michelle ~ "Thank God for Meredith". And now the latest released sw's. The keys, the footprints (or lack thereof), where the child was found ~ inconsistent stories.

I know it all can be explained away individually but taken together it points to Meredith as Jason's accomplice. IMO of course

[Cardinal]

If Jason were to appeal I would think the Judge would just throw it out. Because Jason and his attorney didn't answer the civil suit in the first place.

JMO

I think so too, JHP.

[Jester]

imo, the default has a tremendous upside for Jason and that's why I think his attorney chose this strategy. The Judge's ruling makes it clear the life insurance will be paid to the next beneficiary and only if there are none does it go to the estate. If CY is listed as a beneficiary, Jason controls her money.

I'm not familiar with how it works, but if Cassidy is the beneficiary, and Linda is the executor, wouldn't that leave Linda in control of the funds, rather than Jason?

[JHP]

There have to be reasonable grounds to appeal, and not showing up doesn't sound like reasonable grounds.

not at all.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

imo, the default has a tremendous upside for Jason and that's why I think his attorney chose this strategy. The Judge's ruling makes it clear the life insurance will be paid to the next beneficiary and only if there are none does it go to the estate. If CY is listed as a beneficiary, Jason controls her money.


Plus, think of all the people Jason can make jealous with his new title. Jason the Slayer.
Why would anyone see an upside in being declared a Slayer?

[BSNBREVARDNC]

Let's see now, the very strange 911 call, the massive weight loss after the murder, Jason telling MM that MF counseled him on his relationship with Michelle ~ "Thank God for Meredith". And now the latest released sw's. The keys, the footprints (or lack thereof), where the child was found ~ inconsistent stories.

I know it all can be explained away individually but taken together it points to Meredith as Jason's accomplice. IMO of course

Interesting.

[Jester]

Why would Jason put the child in the bloody bedroom with her dead mother instead of in her own bed?

I think Jason could have put Cassidy to sleep in her own room and then transferred her to his side of the bed after she was asleep. It's possible that Jason thought he gave Cassidy enough medication to do permanent harm, so he put her in the room with Michelle. It's also possible that he wanted Meredith to find them together. I don't understand the minds of murderers, but there may be a reason why Jason wanted Cassidy and Michelle to be found in the same room.

[Jester]

not at all.

Blowing off a court appearance could be reasonable grounds to appeal?

ETA: sorry, misunderstood. You're agreeing that it's not grounds for appeal

[Cardinal]

I've been wondering if defaulting on the wrongful death claim didn't have an upside for Jason. He could not get the insurance money on his own without being questioned, and he does not want to answer any questions. If Linda applies for the insurance money, then the funds become a little more accessible to Jason. He can apply to receive some of the funds for Cassidy's day to day care from Linda. It looks like it could be in Jason's favor to have Linda have the insurance money released.

Being named a Slayer is only a small problem, as he will remain free until he is convicted in a trial.

None of the funds have to be released - to Jason or anyone who's caring for Cassidy. Distributions will likely be in the discretion of the custodial trustee.

JMO

[alter ego]

There have to be reasonable grounds to appeal, and not showing up doesn't sound like reasonable grounds.He would have to move to set aside the default judgment and if that is denied he could appeal.

Any decision made by a judge can be appealed. There doesn't have to be reasonable grounds, only case law to support the argument that the judge erred in his ruling.

[annalyzer]

Plus, think of all the people Jason can make jealous with his new title. Jason the Slayer.
Why would anyone see an upside in being declared a Slayer?

I wonder if he'll add that title to his dating site? :unsure:

[MerriMent]

So instead they use Michelle's car, which someone might see and take note of? Not to mention the risk of being seen driving it wherever they were going. Or being pulled over. Besides, if they used Michelle's car, they would have left trace evidence. The car was searched for trace evidence. If LE thought Meredith was guilty and found indications of the crime in that car, Meredith would have been arrested by now.

JMO

Why would LE arrest Meredith if trace evidence was found in Michelle's car? How is that evidence against Meredith or anyone else?

There is no guarantee trace evidence will be found, especially when they waited over a year to check Michelle's car for it but, again, that still doesn't help identifying the driver.

Even if Michelle's car was seen, Michelle's car had an explanation for being there. In the darkness of night, it would be difficult to see the driver well enough to identify her. The fact is, a light-colored SUV was seen by a witness. Identifying the driver is the problem.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

I think Jason could have put Cassidy to sleep in her own room and then transferred her to his side of the bed after she was asleep. It's possible that Jason thought he gave Cassidy enough medication to do permanent harm, so he put her in the room with Michelle. It's also possible that he wanted Meredith to find them together. I don't understand the minds of murderers, but there may be a reason why Jason wanted Cassidy and Michelle to be found in the same room.

I thought that there was another SW that dealt with a powerful cold medicine that was found in CY’s room. Didn’t this medicine have some connection to Jason? This was a more recent SW and the cops would have already had CY’s DNA, so….

The plot thickens.

[JHP]

Blowing off a court appearance could be reasonable grounds to appeal?

no, no I was agreeing with you. It's no looked at as a good thing at all to not show, and then appeal cause you don't like the judges decision.

I'm not sure what Jason or his advisers were thinking.

JMO

[Jester]

Plus, think of all the people Jason can make jealous with his new title. Jason the Slayer.
Why would anyone see an upside in being declared a Slayer?

I think there may be an up side to having Linda apply for the insurance funds. There's no up side to being called a slayer, but there's no real downside as he's still a free man until there is a trial.

[Cardinal]

I'm not familiar with how it works, but if Cassidy is the beneficiary, and Linda is the executor, wouldn't that leave Linda in control of the funds, rather than Jason?

http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/PDF/BySection/Chapter_33A/GS_33A-14.pdf

There will likely be a custodian appointed by Linda and/or the Court to control the funds. The custodian is not required to make distributions - it's discretionary.

[Jester]

I thought that there was another SW that dealt with a powerful cold medicine that was found in CY’s room. Didn’t this medicine have some connection to Jason? This was a more recent SW and the cops would have already had CY’s DNA, so….

The plot thickens.

The November 6 warrants imply that Jason had knowledge of pharmaceutical drugs, and that he was familiar with dosages and effects. There were several drugs found in Cassidy's room, and Jason may have given her a bit of everything to make her sleep for a long time.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

I think there may be an up side to having Linda apply for the insurance funds. There's no up side to being called a slayer, but there's no real downside as he's still a free man until there is a trial.

Free?

I don’t know. There are different kinds of prisons. The big house might not be that bad after @# &*#’s house. (See, I didn’t use the forbidden nickname).

[MerriMent]

I'm not familiar with how it works, but if Cassidy is the beneficiary, and Linda is the executor, wouldn't that leave Linda in control of the funds, rather than Jason?

If Cassidy is listed as beneficiary, the insurance is paid directly to her, not the estate. Linda is only the executor of the estate. She has no control over Cassidy's assets.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

If Cassidy is listed as beneficiary, the insurance is paid directly to her, not the estate. Linda is only the executor of the estate. She has no control over Cassidy's assets.

Maybe we should wait and see what the judge says.

[MerriMent]

http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/PDF/BySection/Chapter_33A/GS_33A-14.pdf

There will likely be a custodian appointed by Linda and/or the Court to control the funds. The custodian is not required to make distributions - it's discretionary.

Wrong. I suggest you re-read the Judge's order. If CY is listed as beneficiary, the insurance company will pay the benefits directly to her. The estate won't see any of that money unless another beneficiary was not designated by Michelle.

[Jester]

I don't remember reading any articles or seeing any reports calling Meredith a "slayer".

All I have seen is this:

"A senior resident Superior Court judge on Friday afternoon found that Jason Young "willfully and unlawfully killed" his wife, Michelle Young more than two years ago."

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/4081439/


Can you provide a link please?

True. There's no reason to accuse Meredith when Jason has been declared Michelle's slayer. Meredith's only role in this gruesome murder was to find her sister and Cassidy in the master bedroom. She was lured to the scene under the guise of retrieving a document that was meaningless, and outdated.

[Cardinal]

Why would LE arrest Meredith if trace evidence was found in Michelle's car? How is that evidence against Meredith or anyone else?

There is no guarantee trace evidence will be found, especially when they waited over a year to check Michelle's car for it but, again, that still doesn't help identifying the driver.

Even if Michelle's car was seen, Michelle's car had an explanation for being there. In the darkness of night, it would be difficult to see the driver well enough to identify her. The fact is, a light-colored SUV was seen by a witness. Identifying the driver is the problem.

Well, it's obvious that LE doesn't agree with your theory. The only way Meredith's involvement would fit with LE's investigation is if she were, as annalyzer suggested, Jason's accomplice.

JMO

[MerriMent]

Maybe we should wait and see what the judge says.

I've already seen what the Judge said: the money goes to the next beneficiary. If none, it goes to the estate.

[Jester]

None of the funds have to be released - to Jason or anyone who's caring for Cassidy. Distributions will likely be in the discretion of the custodial trustee.

JMO

The funds will be released to the executor, Linda Fisher. Couldn't Jason apply to have some of those funds for Cassidy's care?

[Cardinal]

If Cassidy is listed as beneficiary, the insurance is paid directly to her, not the estate. Linda is only the executor of the estate. She has no control over Cassidy's assets.

The insurance company is not going to pay the proceeds to a minor, nor are they likely to pay them to a guardian who has just been declared a slayer under NC law.

JMO

[jerry50]

Wrong. I suggest you re-read the Judge's order. If CY is listed as beneficiary, the insurance company will pay the benefits directly to her. The estate won't see any of that money unless another beneficiary was not designated by Michelle.

At the very end of the judge's ruling it stated something about the remaining requests by Linda were still pending. Could these be pertaining to overseeing the money?

[Cardinal]

The funds will be released to the executor, Linda Fisher. Couldn't Jason apply to have some of those funds for Cassidy's care?

He can apply, sure, but the custodian doesn't have to distribute them.

[MerriMent]

Well, it's obvious that LE doesn't agree with your theory. The only way Meredith's involvement would fit with LE's investigation is if she were, as annalyzer suggested, Jason's accomplice.

JMO

It's not obvious if you'd bother to read those warrants released yesterday. LE believes that Meredith is involved. She's made conflicting statements to LE. So far, they haven't had luck proving Jason's participation.

[Cardinal]

At the very end of the judge's ruling it stated something about the remaining requests by Linda were still pending. Could these be pertaining to overseeing the money?

I thought the pending requests were the claims for damages and funeral expenses that were in the WDS.

[Jester]

no, no I was agreeing with you. It's no looked at as a good thing at all to not show, and then appeal cause you don't like the judges decision.

I'm not sure what Jason or his advisers were thinking.

JMO

It would have been a major decision to not respond, so there has to be a good reason. One obvious reason is that Jason did not have to answer any questions. I'm wonder if there wasn't a second reason. If the funds haven't been released, no one can touch the money. If they've been released, and are in trust for Cassidy, then I see no reason why Jason couldn't apply for the funds to be distributed to Cassidy so she can travel to Puerto Rico, and enjoy a higher standard of living. Jason could apply for funds to cover his travel expenses as well, because he's her legal guardian.

[Cardinal]

It's not obvious if you'd bother to read those warrants released yesterday. LE believes that Meredith is involved. She's made conflicting statements to LE. So far, they haven't had luck proving Jason's participation.

Luck or not, Spivey made his position clear.

[JHP]

The insurance company is not going to pay the proceeds to a minor, nor are they likely to pay them to a guardian who has just been declared a slayer under NC law.

JMO

I think Cassidy just applyed for an AM/EX last week.:wink: I'm sure the insurance company just cut her a check. Cardinal I just don't understand what people are thinking sometimes.

[Cardinal]

It would have been a major decision to not respond, so there has to be a good reason. One obvious reason is that Jason did not have to answer any questions. I'm wonder if there wasn't a second reason. If the funds haven't been released, no one can touch the money. If they've been released, and are in trust for Cassidy, then I see no reason why Jason couldn't apply for the funds to be distributed to Cassidy so she can travel to Puerto Rico, and enjoy a higher standard of living. Jason could apply for funds to cover his travel expenses as well, because he's her legal guardian.

Good luck with that application.

[MerriMent]

At the very end of the judge's ruling it stated something about the remaining requests by Linda were still pending. Could these be pertaining to overseeing the money?

Again, if the life insurance has another beneficiary listed, it goes directly to them and it does not go to the estate.

Linda also requested the town house be turned over to the estate.

[Jester]

http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/PDF/BySection/Chapter_33A/GS_33A-14.pdf

There will likely be a custodian appointed by Linda and/or the Court to control the funds. The custodian is not required to make distributions - it's discretionary.

One possible result of this judgment is that Jason may have an easier time getting access to the funds.

[JHP]

It would have been a major decision to not respond, so there has to be a good reason. One obvious reason is that Jason did not have to answer any questions. I'm wonder if there wasn't a second reason. If the funds haven't been released, no one can touch the money. If they've been released, and are in trust for Cassidy, then I see no reason why Jason couldn't apply for the funds to be distributed to Cassidy so she can travel to Puerto Rico, and enjoy a higher standard of living. Jason could apply for funds to cover his travel expenses as well, because he's her legal guardian.

I'm wondering if it's just stupidity?

[Cardinal]

I think Cassidy just applyed for an AM/EX last week.:wink: I'm sure the insurance company just cut her a check. Cardinal I just don't understand what people are thinking sometimes.

:biggrin: Me either.

[alter ego]

If Jason were to appeal I would think the Judge would just throw it out. Because Jason and his attorney didn't answer the civil suit in the first place.

JMOThere is no legal basis to that.

[Jester]

Free?

I don’t know. There are different kinds of prisons. The big house might not be that bad after @# &*#’s house. (See, I didn’t use the forbidden nickname).

He can travel, or move to some small town and start over. He doesn't have to stay where he is. Maybe he will apply for some of Cassidy's money to start a new life some place where he is not potentially viewed as a pariah.

[Cardinal]

One possible result of this judgment is that Jason may have an easier time getting access to the funds.

Really? Who's going to give them to him?

[Cardinal]

He can travel, or move to some small town and start over. He doesn't have to stay where he is. Maybe he will apply for some of Cassidy's money to start a new life some place where he is not potentially viewed as a pariah.

I thought he wasn't interested in the LI money?

[MerriMent]

The insurance company is not going to pay the proceeds to a minor, nor are they likely to pay them to a guardian who has just been declared a slayer under NC law.

JMO

So far today, you have been incorrect on a number of things, including this one. The insurance company most certainly must pay proceeds to the next beneficiary, minor or not. They have no choice in the matter.

[Silsbee]

The insurance company is not going to pay the proceeds to a minor, nor are they likely to pay them to a guardian who has just been declared a slayer under NC law.

JMO

I'm not very well versed on this topic but from my own experience with life ins. we do not have our children as the beneficiaries. My father is the beneficiary if something were to happen to my husband and I he knows that the money is to be used to provide for our kids.

I was told early on not to name my minor children as the beneficiary because a court ordered property guardian would have to be appointed and can be costly. A competent trustworthy adult is a better choice.

So I am wondering if an adult was named and not Cassie. Could it be Jason's mom or Michelle's mom?

Sils

[alter ego]

I thought the pending requests were the claims for damages and funeral expenses that were in the WDS.Yeah the compensetory and punitive damages.

[MerriMent]

One possible result of this judgment is that Jason may have an easier time getting access to the funds.

He'll not only have an easier time, he'll have direct control. That's why it is such a brilliant strategy on the part of Jason's attorney. The money must be paid directly to the next beneficiary as ordered by the court. As a parent, Jason remains in total control of his child's assets.

[Cardinal]

So far today, you have been incorrect on a number of things, including this one. The insurance company most certainly must pay proceeds to the next beneficiary, minor or not. They have no choice in the matter.

I have no problem admitted when I'm wrong, unlike some posters. A minor can't sign the claim form.

[MerriMent]

Yeah the compensetory and punitive damages.

The source of funds she wanted to obtain (the insurance money) is now out of the picture.

[Jester]

I'm wondering if it's just stupidity?

Could be stupidity, or fear.

Jason strikes me as a linear sequential type person. I think he was rather thoughtful and organized in his murder, carefully anticipating several possible outcomes. He carefully researched methods for murder, planned his alibi, and arranged for someone to find the murder scene. He managed to navigate around the violent murder without too much difficulty, even though that doesn't appear to be one of the scenarios he anticipated. Stupidity and confusion may be problems he has today, but his previous actions suggest an organized planner.

[MerriMent]

I have no problem admitted when I'm wrong, unlike some posters. A minor can't sign the claim form.

Her parent can.

[alter ego]

The funds will be released to the executor, Linda Fisher. Couldn't Jason apply to have some of those funds for Cassidy's care?The LI proceeds would only be part of Michelle's estate if Jason is the only beneficiary.

[Cardinal]

I'm not very well versed on this topic but from my own experience with life ins. we do not have our children as the beneficiaries. My father is the beneficiary if something were to happen to my husband and I he knows that the money is to be used to provide for our kids.

I was told early on not to name my minor children as the beneficiary because a court ordered property guardian would have to be appointed and can be costly. A competent trustworthy adult is a better choice.

So I am wondering if an adult was named and not Cassie. Could it be Jason's mom or Michelle's mom?

Sils

Thank you, Silsbee. You were told correctly.

An adult could have been named, but I think it's more likely that the estate was the contingent beneficiary.

[Jester]

Really? Who's going to give them to him?

I don't know, but if the money is intended for Cassidy in the event that her mother is murdered, then a good lawyer may be able to argue that Michelle would have wanted Cassidy to enjoy a higher standard of living throughout her childhood. Therefore, it could be argued that Cassidy should receive a sum every month for her day to day care. It could be argued that Jason has suffered undue financial distress since Michelle was murdered, that he now cannot afford to support his daughter without the assistance of his family. With some of the LI funds, he could establish a home for himself and Cassidy. I don't see it being all that difficult to apply for funds once they are released from the insurance company.

[MerriMent]

I'm not very well versed on this topic but from my own experience with life ins. we do not have our children as the beneficiaries. My father is the beneficiary if something were to happen to my husband and I he knows that the money is to be used to provide for our kids.

I was told early on not to name my minor children as the beneficiary because a court ordered property guardian would have to be appointed and can be costly. A competent trustworthy adult is a better choice.

So I am wondering if an adult was named and not Cassie. Could it be Jason's mom or Michelle's mom?

Sils

Jason's attorney knows who is listed and he desided to default so my bet is that CY is listed as a secondary beneficiary. Jason is still her parent/guardian.

Our children are listed as secondary beneficiaries on all our insurance. We also name a guardian for their finances in our Will in case both of us die before they are adults. I think when an attorney is involved drawing up a will, this is pretty standard.

[Jester]

I thought he wasn't interested in the LI money?

That's not something I've said. I think Jason has always been interested in the insurance money, but he didn't want to answer any questions to access it. With Linda applying to have the funds released, he avoids answering any questions and the funds are released for Cassidy's benefit.

[MerriMent]

The LI proceeds would only be part of Michelle's estate if Jason is the only beneficiary.

And considering the willingness to default, it is highly doubtful Jason was the only beneficiary listed.

[Jester]

I'm not very well versed on this topic but from my own experience with life ins. we do not have our children as the beneficiaries. My father is the beneficiary if something were to happen to my husband and I he knows that the money is to be used to provide for our kids.

I was told early on not to name my minor children as the beneficiary because a court ordered property guardian would have to be appointed and can be costly. A competent trustworthy adult is a better choice.

So I am wondering if an adult was named and not Cassie. Could it be Jason's mom or Michelle's mom?

Sils

I think the funds would be released to the executor of the estate, Linda Fisher.

[alter ego]

If he could do that then he should be able to arrest him, right?

SilsNot w/o an indictment.

[Jester]

He'll not only have an easier time, he'll have direct control. That's why it is such a brilliant strategy on the part of Jason's attorney. The money must be paid directly to the next beneficiary as ordered by the court. As a parent, Jason remains in total control of his child's assets.

Linda is the executor, not Jason, so I don't think he will suddenly have direct control over the funds. The executor of the estate would have control over the funds, and would not transfer that control to the slayer of her daughter.

If Jason has legal options to apply for a monthly sum, then it was somewhat of a brilliant move by his attorney. As I mentioned, there is the downside of being labeled a slayer, but that doesn't effect his freedom.

[alter ego]

I think the funds would be released to the executor of the estate, Linda Fisher.The funds will only be part of Michelle's estate if Jason is the sole beneficiary.

[MerriMent]

I think the funds would be released to the executor of the estate, Linda Fisher.

Not if there is another beneficiary listed on the policy. The entire point of having beneficiaries and secondary beneficiaries is to bypass probate.

[Silsbee]

Thank you, Silsbee. You were told correctly.

An adult could have been named, but I think it's more likely that the estate was the contingent beneficiary.

Why the estate? It seems like that would cause just as many problems as leaving it to the minor child by having to go through the courts to determine control of the assets. Am I understanding this correctly?

Sils

[MerriMent]

Linda is the executor, not Jason, so I don't think he will suddenly have direct control over the funds. The executor of the estate would have control over the funds, and would not transfer that control to the slayer of her daughter.

I suggest you re-read the Judge's order. The life insurance is not part of the estate if there are other beneficiaries listed.

[annalyzer]

It's not obvious if you'd bother to read those warrants released yesterday. LE believes that Meredith is involved. She's made conflicting statements to LE. So far, they haven't had luck proving Jason's participation.

And therein lies the holdup.

[Jester]

The funds will only be part of Michelle's estate if Jason is the sole beneficiary.

I don't understand what you're saying. The funds are part of Michelle's estate, and Linda Fisher is the executor of that estate. She will look after the estate for Cassidy.

[MerriMent]

Why the estate? It seems like that would cause just as many problems as leaving it to the minor child by having to go through the courts to determine control of the assets. Am I understanding this correctly?

Sils

The only reason to name your estate as a beneficiary is if you don't have children and you want your debts such as funeral expenses paid from the proceeds of the life insurance. Considering Michelle already had a child at the time she took out the policy and she had an attorney draw up her will, it is highly unlikely she didn't name her child as a secondary beneficiary so that the money would go directly to her benefit and not be tied up in the estate probate process, which can take over a year to complete.

[alter ego]

That’s why I was wondering about the training and experience of the officer that the judge speaks about in the order.He's basing that on Spivey's own words.

[MerriMent]

I don't understand what you're saying. The funds are part of Michelle's estate, and Linda Fisher is the executor of that estate. She will look after the estate for Cassidy.

The life insurance funds are NOT part of Michelle's estate.

[Cardinal]

Her parent can.

If you want to believe the insurance company is going to pay the proceeds to Jason as Cassidy's guardian, that's fine with me. You thought Linda Fisher would be removed as Executrix, too.

[alter ego]

I don't understand what you're saying. The funds are part of Michelle's estate, and Linda Fisher is the executor of that estate. She will look after the estate for Cassidy.The LI funds? No, they are not part of Michelle's estate unless Jason was listed as the only beneficiary.

[MerriMent]

And therein lies the holdup.

I doubt it's going to be a hold-up much longer. They keep looking for proof Jason participated and can't find any. One reason they've been unsuccessful could be the guy is innocent.

[Cardinal]

Why the estate? It seems like that would cause just as many problems as leaving it to the minor child by having to go through the courts to determine control of the assets. Am I understanding this correctly?

Sils

Since Michelle had a will, her will would control the disposition of the LI if it were paid to her estate.

[MerriMent]

If you want to believe the insurance company is going to pay the proceeds to Jason as Cassidy's guardian, that's fine with me. You thought Linda Fisher would be removed as Executrix, too.

According to the Judge's order, the next beneficiary gets the money. The insurance company has no choice in the matter. That's good enough for me.

I thought Linda Fisher would be removed as executrix but that would take effort, expense and time. I admit I didn't realize that defaulting was a less expensive, more rapid strategy to defeat Linda's attempt to get control of the life insurance. Kudos to Jason's attorney.

[Silsbee]

The only reason to name your estate as a beneficiary is if you don't have children and you want your debts such as funeral expenses paid from the proceeds of the life insurance. Considering Michelle already had a child at the time she took out the policy and she had an attorney draw up her will, it is highly unlikely she didn't name her child as a secondary beneficiary so that the money would go directly to her benefit and not be tied up in the estate probate process, which can take over a year to complete.

So in your experience naming your minor child(ren) as beneficiary on your life ins. policy is typical as long as a guardian is named in the will? That sounds reasonable.

Sils

[annalyzer]

According to the Judge's order, the next beneficiary gets the money. The insurance company has no choice in the matter. That's good enough for me.

I thought Linda Fisher would be removed as executrix but that would take effort, expense and time. I admit I didn't realize that defaulting was a less expensive, more rapid strategy to defeat Linda's attempt to get control of the life insurance. Kudos to Jason's attorney.

Isn't there a slayer law or something that prevents Jason from receiving the money? As a slayer he is looked at as having died after Michelle or something so he wouldn't be considered?

eta: I think I read that on one of the links yestersday.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

Jason's attorney knows who is listed and he desided to default so my bet is that CY is listed as a secondary beneficiary. Jason is still her parent/guardian.

Our children are listed as secondary beneficiaries on all our insurance. We also name a guardian for their finances in our Will in case both of us die before they are adults. I think when an attorney is involved drawing up a will, this is pretty standard.


I think Jason’s lawyer knew his client could not be deposed without incriminating himself. Jason had to pick the money or his freedom.

The LI will go to Linda Fisher after damages, etc. are set by the judge.
Wait and see.

[annalyzer]

Where did you ever come up with the idea that LE believes that Meredith is involved? Where?

"A senior resident Superior Court judge on Friday afternoon found that Jason Young "willfully and unlawfully killed" his wife, Michelle Young more than two years ago. The order comes as part of a civil wrongful death suit filed by Michelle Young's mother, Linda Fisher, against Jason Young."

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/4081439/

I have never seen anything stating Meredith was involved.

Link please.

Meredith would not be named in that. Jason was the only one named in the WDS. Also it nowhere states that Jason acted alone.

[MerriMent]

The LI funds? No, they are not part of Michelle's estate unless Jason was listed as the only beneficiary.

And Jason and his attorney most certainly know who was listed.

Fisher asked the judge to designate the funds go to Cassidy but all the Judge could do was to bar Jason and that's what he did.

[alter ego]

Isn't there a slayer law or something that prevents Jason from receiving the money? As a slayer he is looked at as having died after Michelle or something so he wouldn't be considered?

eta: I think I read that on one of the links yestersday.He is deemed to have preceeded Michelle in death. So anything of hers that he would receive as a result of her death would pass on to other designated benefiaries or heirs or her estate.

[Cardinal]

According to the Judge's order, the next beneficiary gets the money. The insurance company has no choice in the matter. That's good enough for me.

I thought Linda Fisher would be removed as executrix but that would take effort, expense and time. I admit I didn't realize that defaulting was a less expensive, more rapid strategy to defeat Linda's attempt to get control of the life insurance. Kudos to Jason's attorney.

Yes, the "next beneficiary" gets the money - whoever that is. Most life insurance policies have provisions regarding payments to minors, that will control HOW it is paid to them, usually to a court-appointed guardian. In fact, some policies provide that the company sets up its own trust for minor beneficiaries.

ETA: http://www.progress-energy.com/retirees/benform.pdf

[MerriMent]

So in your experience naming your minor child(ren) as beneficiary on your life ins. policy is typical as long as a guardian is named in the will? That sounds reasonable.

Sils

That's the way our lawyer explained it.

[Cardinal]

That's the way our lawyer explained it.

Maybe you should share this with your attorney:

http://finance.qandas.com/insurance/can-a-minor-be-a-beneficiary-on-a-life-insurance-policy.html

"Yes, a minor can be a beneficiary on a life insurance policy. However, if the minor is plainly stated as the beneficiary, no money can be paid directly to the minor.

In that case, an adult will need to petition the court on behalf of the minor and be made guardian of that minor. Then the money owed will be paid to the guardian, who can give it out to the minor as desired."

I don't think the court would accept a petition from Jason.

[Jester]

Yes, the "next beneficiary" gets the money - whoever that is. Most life insurance policies have provisions regarding payments to minors, that will control HOW it is paid to them, usually to a court-appointed guardian. In fact, some policies provide that the company sets up its own trust for minor beneficiaries.

ETA: http://www.progress-energy.com/retirees/benform.pdf

The judges decision says that the alternate beneficiary will receive the funds, or, if no one else is named, the funds will be included as part of Michelle's estate. For the purpose of beneficiary, Jason is as good as dead and cannot ever have any control over the funds. That's my understanding.

According to the order: http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/12/05/4088144/32274-20081205174636577.pdf

I wonder how Jason feels about being labeled a slayer who is as good as dead.

[MerriMent]

Yes, the "next beneficiary" gets the money - whoever that is. Most life insurance policies have provisions regarding payments to minors, that will control HOW it is paid to them, usually to a court-appointed guardian. In fact, some policies provide that the company sets up its own trust for minor beneficiaries.

You keep making generalizations when, in fact, it's is governed by insurance statutes. One thing is certain: Jason Young and his attorney know EXACTLY what the policy says, what is required and they chose this strategy.

Our insurance policiies make no mention that benefits must go into a trust for minors.

[MerriMent]

Maybe you should share this with your attorney:

http://finance.qandas.com/insurance/can-a-minor-be-a-beneficiary-on-a-life-insurance-policy.html

"Yes, a minor can be a beneficiary on a life insurance policy. However, if the minor is plainly stated as the beneficiary, no money can be paid directly to the minor.

In that case, an adult will need to petition the court on behalf of the minor and be made guardian of that minor. Then the money owed will be paid to the guardian, who can give it out to the minor as desired."

I don't think the court would accept a petition from Jason.

A Will names a guardian when neither parent survives.

Jason is already the guardian of the child. No petition needed or required.

[Jester]

A Will names a guardian when neither parent survives.

Jason is already the guardian of the child. No petition needed or required.

Jason has been deemed to be dead regarding all claims on the life insurance money. He is Cassidy's guardian, but he will never have any control over the life insurance money. At most, he can apply on Cassidy's behalf for a monthly payment for her care, and, even then, every penny would have to be itemized, accounted for, and approved.

[MerriMent]

Jason has been deemed to be dead regarding all claims on the life insurance money. He is Cassidy's guardian, but he will never have any control over the life insurance money. At most, he can apply on Cassidy's behalf for a monthly payment for her care, and, even then, every penny would have to be itemized, accounted for, and approved.

Wishful thinking on your part. Sure not based on the law. Fact is, legally, Jason is still Cassidy's parent and under his parental rights, has total control over all things Cassidy.

[Jester]

Wishful thinking on your part. Sure not based on the law. Fact is, legally, Jason is still Cassidy's parent and under his parental rights, has total control over all things Cassidy.

Not at all.

Jason "is barred from collecting any proceeds of any insurance on the life of Michelle Marie Fisher Young and that any insurance payable to Defendant, Jason Lynn Young, by virtue of his surviving Michelle Marie Fisher Young shall be paid to the person or persons who would have been entitled thereto as if Jason Lynn Young had predeceased Michelle Marie Fisher Young or to the Estate of Michelle Marie Fisher Young if no alternate beneficiary is named, and that the Defendant, Jason Lynn Young, is barred from testate or intestate succession from the Estate of Michelle Marie Fisher Young under G.S. section 31A-4 and is deemed to have died immediately prior to Michelle Marie Fisher Young."

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/12/05/4088144/32274-20081205174636577.pdf

[MerriMent]

All that pertains to is the estate. If there is another beneficiary, the insurance doesn't go to the estate. I do believe Michelle's Will names a guardian for Cassidy and also believe Jason sure doesn't have a problem with the insurance proceeds being paid to that person on Cassidy's behalf.

It's a win-win for Cassidy and the Youngs and Michelle. Not so good for Fisher, who wanted to be named guardian of Cassidy's money. The Judge didn't do that. :thumbsup:

[Jester]

All that pertains to is the estate. If there is another beneficiary, the insurance doesn't go to the estate. I do believe Michelle's Will names a guardian for Cassidy and also believe Jason sure doesn't have a problem with the insurance proceeds being paid to that person on Cassidy's behalf.

It's a win-win for Cassidy and the Youngs and Michelle. Not so good for Fisher, who wanted to be named guardian of Cassidy's money. The Judge didn't do that. :thumbsup:

Who do you think Michelle would name as beneficiary of her will after Jason? Wouldn't that be her children?

I don't think this relates to a guardian of Cassidy, but rather an alternate beneficiary of the policy. Jason apparently was the beneficiary of the policy, now he is not. If there was an alternate, in the event both parents died at the same time (which is deemed to be the case), that would most likely be Cassidy. If the will was written prior to the birth of Cassidy, the alternate would most likely be one of Michelle's relatives, like her sister or mother. I don't see any reason why Michelle would name someone in Jason's family to be the beneficiary of her life insurance policy in the event that both spouses were deceased and there were no children. If there are children, they are usually the alternate beneficiary.

[MerriMent]

Who do you think Michelle would name as beneficiary of her will after Jason? Wouldn't that be her children?

I don't think this relates to a guardian of Cassidy, but rather an alternate beneficiary of the policy. Jason apparently was the beneficiary of the policy, now he is not. If there was an alternate, in the event both parents died at the same time (which is deemed to be the case), that would most likely be Cassidy. If the will was written prior to the birth of Cassidy, the alternate would most likely be one of Michelle's relatives, like her sister or mother. I don't see any reason why Michelle would name someone in Jason's family to be the beneficiary of her life insurance policy in the event that both spouses were deceased and there were no children. If there are children, they are usually the alternate beneficiary.

I believe the Will was written when Michelle was pregnant with her second child and that Michelle named a guardian for her children in her Will. The guardian can file the insurance claim on Cassidy's behalf. It has been posted here that Michelle's Will named Jason's sister as guardian if she and Jason were unable to serve.

[Jester]

I believe the Will was written when Michelle was pregnant with her second child and that Michelle named a guardian for her children in her Will. The guardian can file the insurance claim on Cassidy's behalf. It has been posted here that Michelle's Will named Jason's sister as guardian if she and Jason were unable to serve.

Jason is Cassidy's guardian, so there is no need for any alternate guardian to be considered. Therefore, discussion about guardians is outside the conditions set for the life insurance policy. As Michelle's slayer, Jason is barred from having any access to Michelle's life insurance policy. Linda is the executor of Michelle's estate. Since the life insurance money is part of Michelle's estate, and Linda is the executor of that estate, then she will look after the insurance money on Cassidy's behalf until such time that it is transferred to her.

ETA: it seems like you're mixing up beneficiary for the life insurance policy and guardian in the event that both parents are deceased.

[Cardinal]

I believe the Will was written when Michelle was pregnant with her second child and that Michelle named a guardian for her children in her Will. The guardian can file the insurance claim on Cassidy's behalf. It has been posted here that Michelle's Will named Jason's sister as guardian if she and Jason were unable to serve.

I hate to burst your bubble, but guardian of the person and guardian of the estate of a minor are 2 separate things under the law:

http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/PDF/BySection/Chapter_35A/GS_35A-1224.pdf

The guardian of the estate controls the minors funds, not the guardian of the person.


Gotta run!

[BSNBREVARDNC]

All that pertains to is the estate. If there is another beneficiary, the insurance doesn't go to the estate. I do believe Michelle's Will names a guardian for Cassidy and also believe Jason sure doesn't have a problem with the insurance proceeds being paid to that person on Cassidy's behalf.

It's a win-win for Cassidy and the Youngs and Michelle. Not so good for Fisher, who wanted to be named guardian of Cassidy's money. The Judge didn't do that. :thumbsup:

I don’t think this will play out the way you are hoping it will. :wink:

[MerriMent]

Jason is Cassidy's guardian, so there is no need for any alternate guardian to be considered. Therefore, discussion about guardians is outside the conditions set for the life insurance policy. As Michelle's slayer, Jason is barred from having any access to Michelle's life insurance policy. Linda is the executor of Michelle's estate. Since the life insurance money is part of Michelle's estate, and Linda is the executor of that estate, then she will look after the insurance money on Cassidy's behalf until such time that it is transferred to her.

Linda Fisher won't ever get her hands on the insurance money because the insurance money is not part of Michelle's estate. Please read the Judge's order. If another is named as a beneficiary, the insurance money goes to them, not the estate. Don't you want the child to collect the money immediately?

Because of the Judge's ruling, the life insurance company can make payment to a guardian for Cassidy other than Jason. Michelle's Will names a guardian if Jason can't serve and all the guardian needs to do is submit the Will with the claim. Fisher has nothing to do with it because the life insurance isn't part of Michelle's estate. It's separate.

[MerriMent]

I hate to burst your bubble, but guardian of the person and guardian of the estate of a minor are 2 separate things under the law:

http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/PDF/BySection/Chapter_35A/GS_35A-1224.pdf

The guardian of the estate controls the minors funds, not the guardian of the person.


Gotta run!

Typical of you. Post something untrue and run. Michelle's Will didn't name Fisher guardian of Cassidy's assets. GMAB. You really are desperate.

§ 35A‑1225. Testamentary recommendation; guardian for incompetent minor.

(a) Parents are presumed to know the best interest of their children. Any parent may by last will and testament recommend a guardian for any of his or her minor children, whether born at the parent's death or en ventre sa mere, for such time as the child remains under 18 years of age, unmarried, and unemancipated, or for any less time. Such will may be made without regard to whether the testator is an adult or a minor. If both parents make such recommendations, the will with the latest date shall, in the absence of other relevant factors, prevail.

[MerriMent]

I don’t think this will play out the way you are hoping it will. :wink:

So far it has played out exactly as I hoped. :tonguewag:

[BSNBREVARDNC]

So far it has played out exactly as I hoped. :tonguewag:

Congrates!!!

I was unaware that you wanted Jason to be named as Michelle’s Slayer.
:tonguewag:

[Jester]

Linda Fisher won't ever get her hands on the insurance money because the insurance money is not part of Michelle's estate. Please read the Judge's order. If another is named as a beneficiary, the insurance money goes to them, not the estate. Don't you want the child to collect the money immediately?

Because of the Judge's ruling, the life insurance company can make payment to a guardian for Cassidy other than Jason. Michelle's Will names a guardian if Jason can't serve and all the guardian needs to do is submit the Will with the claim. Fisher has nothing to do with it because the life insurance isn't part of Michelle's estate. It's separate.

I have to agree with the previous poster, and this will not play out as you hope. Jason is barred from access to the funds, so I doubt a judge would name his mom or sister as executor of the estate. A decision like that would go against the spirit of the order.

[MerriMent]

Congrates!!!

I was unaware that you wanted Jason to be named as Michelle’s Slayer.
:tonguewag:

What I wanted was Fisher not getting her mitts on Cassidy's money and she didn't!!! :thumbsup:

[MerriMent]

I have to agree with the previous poster, and this will not play out as you hope. Jason is barred from access to the funds, so I doubt a judge would name his mom or sister as executor of the estate. A decision like that would go against the spirit of the order.

Michelle's Will named a guardian for Cassidy in the event she nor Jason could serve. You obviously don't understand the difference between an executrix and a guardian. :rolleyes:

[BSNBREVARDNC]

What I wanted was Fisher not getting her mitts on Cassidy's money and she didn't!!! :thumbsup:

You haven’t been paying attention. LF was doing this for Cassidy. The important thing is that the Youngs will never get their hands on Cassidy’s money. The Judge will make sure that Linda Fisher is able to make that happen. Jason Young, the Slayer, will never profit from this crime. Neither will his mother nor his sisters. Linda Fisher will make sure that Cassidy is well taken care of. :smile:

[Jester]

What I wanted was Fisher not getting her mitts on Cassidy's money and she didn't!!! :thumbsup:

Who do you think is going to get their "mitts" on the life insurance policy?

The entire wrongful death suit specified that the money should go to Cassidy, not the slayer of Michelle. That application has been successful. There was no mention of anyone other than Cassidy benefiting from the application other than Cassidy, so I'm not sure where you get the idea that someone other than Cassidy would have their "mitts" on the money.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

Michelle's Will named a guardian for Cassidy in the event she nor Jason could serve. You obviously don't understand the difference between an executrix and a guardian. :rolleyes:

You obviously don’t understand the power of having someone named a Slayer.
You obviously don’t understand the power that the judge now has in this case when it comes to damages.
You obviously don’t understand that Jason Young is now a Slayer in all civil proceedings.
You obviously don’t understand that Jason Young can never be deposed nor take the stand in any hearing.
His attorney knows that to do so will send him to the big house.

[Jester]

Michelle's Will named a guardian for Cassidy in the event she nor Jason could serve. You obviously don't understand the difference between an executrix and a guardian. :rolleyes:

Jason is Cassidy's guardian, and there's no legal reason why Jason cannot act as her guardian at this time. He will continue to look after her day to day care. He is deemed dead when it comes to deciding who will look after Cassidy's inheritance. Any alternate guardian that Michelle appointed to look after Cassidy's day to day care is completely independent of who Michelle named as an alternate beneficiary in her will. It seems that Cassidy is the alternate beneficiary, and it seems that Linda has taken steps to ensure that Cassidy will benefit. I have a clear understanding of the difference between guardian of a child, and beneficiary of an estate. You seem to think that Jason will now receive the proceeds of the life insurance policy, but you are overlooking the order which states that Jason is barred from doing so.

[MerriMent]

You haven’t been paying attention. LF was doing this for Cassidy. The important thing is that the Youngs will never get their hands on Cassidy’s money. The Judge will make sure that Linda Fisher is able to make that happen. Jason Young, the Slayer, will never profit from this crime. Neither will his mother nor his sisters. Linda Fisher will make sure that Cassidy is well taken care of. :smile:

It's pretty much over for Fisher in regards to the life insurance proceeds. The Judge didn't rule they are part of Michelle's estate. Cassidy is a Young, isn't she? In the care of other Youngs, correct? There's a guardian for her named in Michelle's Will. If CY is the beneficiary, the money goes to her without Linda's involvement. Bravo!! (I really am thrilled for Cassidy and the Youngs!!!). I'm confident the guardian will continue to take good care of Cassidy. Michelle made a good choice.

The Judge in a wrongful death lawsuit doesn't have jurisdiction or control over life insurance proceeds that go to another beneficiary. The life insurance is out of his hands now and will soon be benefitting Cassidy. Aren't you thrilled, too?

[MerriMent]

You obviously don’t understand the power of having someone named a Slayer.
You obviously don’t understand the power that the judge now has in this case when it comes to damages.
You obviously don’t understand that Jason Young is now a Slayer in all civil proceedings.
You obviously don’t understand that Jason Young can never be deposed nor take the stand in any hearing.
His attorney knows that to do so will send him to the big house.


I understand perfectly. It's you who seems to be in meltdown mode. If LE can't make a case against Jason without his help, that's LE's problem. You can't blame Jason's attorney or him for their ineptitude.

I certainly understand the life insurance goes to other beneficiaries and will not be a source for any damages.

[MerriMent]

Jason is Cassidy's guardian, and there's no legal reason why Jason cannot act as her guardian at this time. He will continue to look after her day to day care. He is deemed dead when it comes to deciding who will look after Cassidy's inheritance. Any alternate guardian that Michelle appointed to look after Cassidy's day to day care is completely independent of who Michelle named as an alternate beneficiary in her will. It seems that Cassidy is the alternate beneficiary, and it seems that Linda has taken steps to ensure that Cassidy will benefit. I have a clear understanding of the difference between guardian of a child, and beneficiary of an estate. You seem to think that Jason will now receive the proceeds of the life insurance policy, but you are overlooking the order which states that Jason is barred from doing so.

I never said Jason will receive the proceeds. I said Cassidy will receive the proceeds. Cassidy is the beneficiary of LIFE INSURANCE that isn't part of the estate. Her mother named a guardian in her Will who can collect those proceeds on Cassidy's behalf.

[MerriMent]

Who do you think is going to get their "mitts" on the life insurance policy?

The entire wrongful death suit specified that the money should go to Cassidy, not the slayer of Michelle. That application has been successful. There was no mention of anyone other than Cassidy benefiting from the application other than Cassidy, so I'm not sure where you get the idea that someone other than Cassidy would have their "mitts" on the money.

Cassidy is a minor so an adult is required to control the money. Fisher wanted the life insurance deposited into the estate so that she could control it. That didn't happen. Fisher failed. All the Judge ruled is that Jason Young was barred from collecting the proceeds. He said nothing about Jason being barred from ever getting his mitts on it. Neither Judge nor the insurance company can control money after it is dispersed.

[JHP]

I never said Jason will receive the proceeds. I said Cassidy will receive the proceeds. Cassidy is the beneficiary of LIFE INSURANCE that isn't part of the estate. Her mother named a guardian in her Will who can collect those proceeds on Cassidy's behalf.


Yes, Cassidy will recieve the LI, that was why Linda Fisher went to court to make sure that this money was not used to defend Jason in a murder case(if there ever is one). However it will be placed in a trust and she will not be in charge of it until she is at least 18. In my family the children don't get to have any until they are 21. except for college and expenses. My teenager happens to think a lotus is necessary for higher learning. But not according to me.

JMO

[Jester]

I never said Jason will receive the proceeds. I said Cassidy will receive the proceeds. Cassidy is the beneficiary of LIFE INSURANCE that isn't part of the estate. Her mother named a guardian in her Will who can collect those proceeds on Cassidy's behalf.

For some reason you seem to be mixing up custodial guardian with beneficiary of the life insurance policy. Let's see how it plays out, because nothing I say seems to clarify the difference for you.

Jason is, has been, and will continue to be, Cassidy's one and only guardian. He is barred from touching the funds, so the guardian will have nothing to do with the funds forever.

[MerriMent]

Yes, Cassidy will recieve the LI, that was why Linda Fisher went to court to make sure that this money was not used to defend Jason in a murder case(if there ever is one). However it will be placed in a trust and she will not be in charge of it until she is at least 18. In my family the children don't get to have any until they are 21. except for college and expenses. My teenager happens to think a lotus is necessary for higher learning. But not according to me.

JMO

If that's why Fisher went to court, she lost. Linda Fisher will not be in charge of the insurance money. The judge barred Jason and ruled it will go to the next beneficiary. That's Cassidy. It's not going to the estate. Since it goes to Cassidy, it can't be tapped to pay damages in Fisher's wrongful death action or her attorney and administrative fees or whatever else she wanted to dip into it to pay.

The guardian named in Michelle's Will can now collect the life insurance on CY's behalf. The life insurance company will recognize the guardian named in Michelle's will.

The money can be used to benefit CY however the guardian see fit and attorneys' fees are legit expenses (Schaivo case.)

[Jester]

If that's why Fisher went to court, she lost. Linda Fisher will not be in charge of the insurance money. The judge barred Jason and ruled it will go to the next beneficiary. That's Cassidy. It's not going to the estate. Since it goes to Cassidy, it can't be tapped to pay damages in Fisher's wrongful death action or her attorney and administrative fees or whatever else she wanted to dip into it to pay.

The guardian named in Michelle's Will can now collect the life insurance on CY's behalf. The life insurance company will recognize the guardian named in Michelle's will.

The money can be used to benefit CY however the guardian see fit and attorneys' fees are legit expenses (Schaivo case.)

Jason is the guardian named in Michelle's will, and he has not been removed as Cassidy's guardian. He is barred from collecting the life insurance money. What next?

[JHP]

If that's why Fisher went to court, she lost. Linda Fisher will not be in charge of the insurance money. The judge barred Jason and ruled it will go to the next beneficiary. That's Cassidy. It's not going to the estate. Since it goes to Cassidy, it can't be tapped to pay damages in Fisher's wrongful death action or her attorney and administrative fees or whatever else she wanted to dip into it to pay.

The guardian named in Michelle's Will can now collect the life insurance on CY's behalf. The life insurance company will recognize the guardian named in Michelle's will.

The money can be used to benefit CY however the guardian see fit and attorneys' fees are legit expenses (Schaivo case.)

Linda Fisher WON big time. I think you don't realize what is going to happen to the money, But thats ok I wont argue with you.

Funny you mention the Schaivo case. I actually am very familiar with that. It's apples and Oranges

IMO

[MerriMent]

For some reason you seem to be mixing up custodial guardian with beneficiary of the life insurance policy. Let's see how it plays out, because nothing I say seems to clarify the difference for you.

Jason is, has been, and will continue to be, Cassidy's one and only guardian. He is barred from touching the funds, so the guardian will have nothing to do with the funds forever.

It is you who is very confused. I know how it will play out. Jason isn't Cassidy's guardian, he is her parent. Michelle names a guardian for Cassidy in her Will. JY is not barred from "touching the funds." He's only barred from collecting them. The guardian named in Michelle's Will can collect for Cassidy.

[MerriMent]

Jason is the guardian named in Michelle's will, and he has not been removed as Cassidy's guardian. He is barred from collecting the life insurance money. What next?

Michelle named a guardian other than Jason in her Will in case something also happened to Jason. It has now happened. The guardian named in her testamentary Will can now file a claim on CY's behalf.

[MerriMent]

Linda Fisher WON big time. I think you don't realize what is going to happen to the money, But thats ok I wont argue with you.

Funny you mention the Schaivo case. I actually am very familiar with that. It's apples and Oranges

IMO

According to the Judge, the money goes to the next beneficiary. How does Linda Fisher win anything in that scenario? She's not the next beneficiary, is she?

[JHP]

According to the Judge, the money goes to the next beneficiary. How does Linda Fisher win anything in that scenario? She's not the next beneficiary, is she?

Jason Young has been deemed to be Michelle's SLAYER She won.

Pleade show me a link to Cassidy's guardian. While your at it show me a link to her will. TYIA

[5swab5]

If that's why Fisher went to court, she lost. Linda Fisher will not be in charge of the insurance money. The judge barred Jason and ruled it will go to the next beneficiary. That's Cassidy. It's not going to the estate. Since it goes to Cassidy, it can't be tapped to pay damages in Fisher's wrongful death action or her attorney and administrative fees or whatever else she wanted to dip into it to pay. (snipped)


WOW,

I am speechless at the wording used to describe the actions of a murder victim's mother.

Maybe the SLAYER Jason Lynn Young should have dipped into his own back pocket to bury his wife and child.

Where does the unemployed one get his mitts on enough money to routinely go to Puerto Rico, yet he didn't even place a marker on Rylan and Michelle's grave?

You certainly have a twisted sense of what is right and wrong regarding the SLAYER Jason Lynn Young and his enabling family. I don't think I have ever seen such insensitive postings about a murder victim's Mom. MOO

[jerry50]

Thank you, Silsbee. You were told correctly.

An adult could have been named, but I think it's more likely that the estate was the contingent beneficiary.

I agree. Years ago when we applied for life insurance we were recommended by several knowledgeable people that the estate should be listed as beneficiary. Plus as smart as Michelle was in the money field she certainly would have done it by the book. JY will have no control over the LE proceeds.

[MerriMent]

Jason Young has been deemed to be Michelle's SLAYER She won.

Pleade show me a link to Cassidy's guardian. While your at it show me a link to her will. TYIA

What did she win? Jason deemed to Michelle's slayer doesn't win her anything at all. The insurance money goes to the next beneficiary. I'm pretty sure Fisher isn't the next beneficiary.

The Will is public record. I don't have a link, sorry.

[JHP]

What did she win? Jason deemed to Michelle's slayer doesn't win her anything at all. The insurance money goes to the next beneficiary. I'm pretty sure Fisher isn't the next beneficiary.

The Will is public record. I don't have a link, sorry.

It is SO SO sad that Linda Fisher has lost her beautiful daughter and grandson she'll never know. Think of the fun they would have had this year at christmas. SOMEONE snatched it away from her. And now a court of LAW has named her killer. Until Jason is in jail for this, having him recognized as the person responsible is HUGE.

JMO

[MerriMent]

It is SO SO sad that Linda Fisher has lost her beautiful daughter and grandson she'll never know. Think of the fun they would have had this year at christmas. SOMEONE snatched it away from her. And now a court of LAW has named her killer. Until Jason is in jail for this, having him recognized as the person responsible is HUGE.

JMO

It is very sad but a civil court naming someone a killer isn't going to change anything at all, except probably ensure lack of visitation with a grandchild.

[jerry50]

If you want to believe the insurance company is going to pay the proceeds to Jason as Cassidy's guardian, that's fine with me. You thought Linda Fisher would be removed as Executrix, too.

Didn't we hear that "fact" at least 20 times a day until Friday afternoon when the judge released his ruling that Jason Young is indeed responsible for the bludgeoning deauth of his wife?

[BSNBREVARDNC]

It is very sad but a civil court naming someone a killer isn't going to change anything at all, except probably ensure lack of visitation with a grandchild.


Since it’s a charitable time of year, how about helping me out? Do you find some sort of amusement in taking the unpopular side of topic and then playing the devil’s advocate or do you really not see how you come across? I personally think that this is how you amuse yourself and if that’s true so be it. You would certainly not be the only one that does so.

But if you are for real then you and I (and most people I know) must exist in a totally different realms of reality. I know the Youngs. I know Jason. I even know his biggest advocate that did post here and still post on other sites. How anyone with any decency can defend what Jason did and how his family and “friend” have acted is beyond astounding. It is even more unbelievable that you can use this same mind, heart, and logic (?) to so vehemently attack the Fishers. Especially Linda Fisher who has lost a child in such a brutal and gruesome way.

Many of your post make me question just how depraved some in our society have become. Where is the decency?

JMO

[Cardinal]

Typical of you. Post something untrue and run. Michelle's Will didn't name Fisher guardian of Cassidy's assets. GMAB. You really are desperate.

§ 35A‑1225. Testamentary recommendation; guardian for incompetent minor.

(a) Parents are presumed to know the best interest of their children. Any parent may by last will and testament recommend a guardian for any of his or her minor children, whether born at the parent's death or en ventre sa mere, for such time as the child remains under 18 years of age, unmarried, and unemancipated, or for any less time. Such will may be made without regard to whether the testator is an adult or a minor. If both parents make such recommendations, the will with the latest date shall, in the absence of other relevant factors, prevail.

The phrase you bolded merely applies to conflicting recommendations in the parents' respective wills.

From the link I provided:

"If the minor's parent or parents have made a testamentary recommendation pursuant to G.S. 35A 1225 for the appointment of a guardian, the clerk shall give substantial weight to such recommendation; provided, such recommendation may not affect the rights of a surviving parent who has not willfully abandoned the minor, and the clerk shall in every instance base the appointment of a guardian or guardians on the minor's best interest."

The part you seem to be overlooking is that the will is a "testamentary recommendation" - only the Clerk can appoint a legal guardian. You remember the Clerk - the one who decided it was in Cassidy's best interest to appoint Linda Executrix?

Let me explain it a different way. A minor can't release and indemnify the LI company for payment of the proceeds. The LI company is only going to pay the proceeds to a court-appointed guardian of the estate, because the Court's oversight relieves the LI company of liability.

JMO

[Cardinal]

Since you didn't like my generalizations, here is the brochure for the AICPA life insurance program:

http://www.cpai.com/pdfs/4225_Life_Brochure-web.pdf

Their program - Michelle's insurance according to the SW - is administered by Prudential. Here's the Prudential claim form:

http://www.prudential.com/media/managed/GL.98.50.pdf

"If the beneficiary is
a) an estate, minor, or not competent to handle financial affairs: attach a certified copy of the court order appointing the legal representative."

Prudential requires court-issued letters of guardianship for a minor, not a will.

[sundrop]

The life insurance money goes to Cassidy not to Michelle's estate. The legal representative of Cassidy is the person who Michelle deemed in her Will to be her guardian if Jason couldn't be. Unless LF contest the Will that names the person as guardian, then the guardian will oversee the life insurance money for Cassidy.

[Cardinal]

The life insurance money goes to Cassey not to Michelle's estate. The legal representative of Cassey is the person who Michelle deemed in her Will to be her guardian if Jason couldn't be. Unless LF contest the Will that names the person as guardian, then the guardian will oversee the life insurance money.

You apparently didn't understand what I just posted. The guardian that will oversee the LI proceeds is the guardian appointed by the Clerk - which isn't necessarily the one named in Michelle's will.

JMO

[sundrop]

You apparently didn't understand what I just posted. The guardian that will oversee the LI proceeds is the guardian appointed by the Clerk - which isn't necessarily the one named in Michelle's will.

JMO

I disagree.

[Cardinal]

I disagree.

That's fine. Read the law and the insurance claim form for yourself. I'm just quoting them.

[Lindsey]

The life insurance money goes to Cassidy not to Michelle's estate. The legal representative of Cassidy is the person who Michelle deemed in her Will to be her guardian if Jason couldn't be. Unless LF contest the Will that names the person as guardian, then the guardian will oversee the life insurance money for Cassidy.


I think LF can not contest Michelle's will since she is the executor, can she? I stand to be corrected.

[Cardinal]

I think LF can not contest Michelle's will since she is the executor, can she? I stand to be corrected.

No, you're correct. Linda's responsibility as Executrix is to execute the terms of the will.

But a will can't appoint a guardian - it can only recommend one to the court. The Clerk has to actually appoint the guardian. And the law distinguishes between a guardian of the person and a guardian of the estate. So while the Clerk may allow the person named in Michelle's will to serve as guardian of the person (which is irrelevant anyway, since Jason is currently in that role), it is very unlikely that the Clerk would appoint that person guardian of the estate with $1 million involved. In fact, I would be really surprised if anyone other than an attorney or a trust company were named guardian of the estate for that kind of money.

JMO

[Lindsey]

No, you're correct. Linda's responsibility as Executrix is to execute the terms of the will.

But a will can't appoint a guardian - it can only recommend one to the court. The Clerk has to actually appoint the guardian. And the law distinguishes between a guardian of the person and a guardian of the estate. So while the Clerk may allow the person named in Michelle's will to serve as guardian of the person (which is irrelevant anyway, since Jason is currently in that role), it is very unlikely that the Clerk would appoint that person guardian of the estate with $1 million involved. In fact, I would be really surprised if anyone other than an attorney or a trust company were named guardian of the estate for that kind of money.

JMO

So, if Jason was unable to be Cassidy's guardian (upon an arrest) would Michelle's will kick in or would a judge have the option of naming someone else as CY's guardian? I'm not talking about the money now, talking about the person who actually raises Cassidy.

I would think the LI would be put in a trust for Cassidy, that no one could touch, until she reaches age of maturity. But I don't know the law ... just makes sense to me.

IMO


ETA: I should have said Clerk instead of Judge? If a will can be changed so easily, what good is a will.

[Cardinal]

So, if Jason was unable to be Cassidy's guardian (upon an arrest) would Michelle's will kick in or would a judge have the option of naming someone else as CY's guardian? I'm not talking about the money now, talking about the person who actually raises Cassidy.

I would think the LI would be put in a trust for Cassidy, that no one could touch, until she reaches age of maturity. But I don't know the law ... just makes sense to me.

IMO

The Clerk or a judge would have the option of naming someone else as guardian of the person. Typically, Michelle's wishes as stated in her will would carry tremendous weight, but if Jason is convicted of killing Michelle, who's to say what the court would decide about his family raising Cassidy?

And a guardianship is a form of a trust, so you're right about that. The guardian would have discretion to disburse funds for her benefit (no one else's) until she's an adult, when the funds would become hers.

JMO

ETA: A will controls the disposition of property, and once probated, can't be changed. Children (despite some people's belief to the contrary) are not property. The court retains jurisdiction over minors.

[JHP]

So, if Jason was unable to be Cassidy's guardian (upon an arrest) would Michelle's will kick in or would a judge have the option of naming someone else as CY's guardian? I'm not talking about the money now, talking about the person who actually raises Cassidy.

I would think the LI would be put in a trust for Cassidy, that no one could touch, until she reaches age of maturity. But I don't know the law ... just makes sense to me.

IMO


ETA: I should have said Clerk instead of Judge? If a will can be changed so easily, what good is a will.

I would think under these circumstances social sevices would step in. And while what is in the will might be considered, a lot will also depend on what has taken place in the time since Michelle died.
We have "heard" that Heather was the choice in the will. but was there an alternate or two named? Since we havent seen the actual will it's all just rumor.

And nothings going to happen unless Jason is arrested for this crime.
JMO

[Cardinal]

I would think under these circumstances social sevices would step in. And while what is in the will might be considered, a lot will also depend on what has taken place in the time since Michelle died.
We have "heard" that Heather was the choice in the will. but was there an alternate or two named? Since we havent seen the actual will it's all just rumor.

And nothings going to happen unless Jason is arrested for this crime.
JMO

I think you're probably right, JHP. I'm sure there would be home studies and whatever else is required by the court. And you make an interesting point about alternates - Michelle named an Alternate Executrix. Maybe she named an alternate guardian.

Wouldn't you think one of those Wake County posters would scan a copy of Michelle's will for us? :biggrin:


ETA: Goodnight!

[Lindsey]

I think you're probably right, JHP. I'm sure there would be home studies and whatever else is required by the court. And you make an interesting point about alternates - Michelle named an Alternate Executrix. Maybe she named an alternate guardian.

Wouldn't you think one of those Wake County posters would scan a copy of Michelle's will for us? :biggrin:


ETA: Goodnight!


Is Michelle's will a matter of public record now? I wonder why the media outlets haven't scanned a copy of it and put it online.

I'm multi-tasking here ... unable to give full attention to the board.

[Barbara2]

That poor boy in California was placed with his aunt as a guardian after the boy's mother died and the father was abusing him. That didn't work out so well. The aunt was abusing him too! It is possible that a named guardian can be found to be unfit and the courts can name someone else as guardian. It happens all the time. IMO

[Kat4Eagles]

Since it’s a charitable time of year, how about helping me out? Do you find some sort of amusement in taking the unpopular side of topic and then playing the devil’s advocate or do you really not see how you come across? I personally think that this is how you amuse yourself and if that’s true so be it. You would certainly not be the only one that does so.

But if you are for real then you and I (and most people I know) must exist in a totally different realms of reality. I know the Youngs. I know Jason. I even know his biggest advocate that did post here and still post on other sites. How anyone with any decency can defend what Jason did and how his family and “friend” have acted is beyond astounding. It is even more unbelievable that you can use this same mind, heart, and logic (?) to so vehemently attack the Fishers. Especially Linda Fisher who has lost a child in such a brutal and gruesome way.

Many of your post make me question just how depraved some in our society have become. Where is the decency?

JMO




I would like to take a shot at this, Brevard,
but, first Sils, I am so glad you are back !!

I know I am mean and insensitive to LF an MF's pain,
but for almost 2 years, I have questioned how
anyone can think someone murdered their daughter
and continue to let their granddaughter or niece live with them.!!

No one ever has an answer...
LF was privvy to much more knowledge probably than we
ever have.

And, still did nothing.

From the very beginning, the child was labeled as a potential
witness, the child was left alone with her dead mother,
and now we find out the child may have been drugged.

So, what does the grandmother do?,
Not fly into NC and demand
a emergency custody hearing or removal of the child from her father
in fear of her safety,

What does she do?

She files a wrongful death suit to collect money, whether for her
or C, it is about money..

Whether to keep Jason from it, or whatever reason, she files
a civil suit.

Nothing about the child's welfare.

If Jason killed Michelle, and I have had a good 24 hours to think
and rethink my position, I don't even know the guy, but if he did,
I find myself hating him for the first time, and feeling somewhat
foolish for defending him...

I can live with that and the opinions of people from a Message Board.

I still would have never sold out to be a JDI, never.

But, there still has to be that indictment and an arrest..and, for some reason ,that is not easy to get, so it leaves me with still some doubts.

But, please do not tell me how to react to a granddaughter who could be in danger if Jason killed Michelle
The walls are closing in, and
C could be in more danger than ever.

Now, the other reasons for not being able to identify with LF and MF, may be more superficial, and based on internet rumors, so, I will just wait for that to come out.

But, of course I feel bad they lost their daughter and sister, anyone would, but their non~action to do anything about C, causes
me more to question their thinking.

And, on another note, I am not even going to pretend I know all that is involved with the will , life insurance, and/or guardianship.

Completely over my head, out of my field.

And, lastly, one of the bottles of medicine I saw in the s/w does not even look like it was opened...


JMO

Kat

[Jester]

I would like to take a shot at this, Brevard,
but, first Sils, I am so glad you are back !!

I know I am mean and insensitive to LF an MF's pain,
but for almost 2 years, I have questioned how
anyone can think someone murdered their daughter
and continue to let their granddaughter or niece live with them.!!

No one ever has an answer...
LF was privvy to much more knowledge probably than we
ever have.

And, still did nothing.

From the very beginning, the child was labeled as a potential
witness, the child was left alone with her dead mother,
and now we find out the child may have been drugged.

So, what does the grandmother do?,
Not fly into NC and demand
a emergency custody hearing or removal of the child from her father
in fear of her safety,

What does she do?

She files a wrongful death suit to collect money, whether for her
or C, it is about money..

Whether to keep Jason from it, or whatever reason, she files
a civil suit.

Nothing about the child's welfare.

If Jason killed Michelle, and I have had a good 24 hours to think
and rethink my position, I don't even know the guy, but if he did,
I find myself hating him for the first time, and feeling somewhat
foolish for defending him...

I can live with that and the opinions of people from a Message Board.

I still would have never sold out to be a JDI, never.

But, there still has to be that indictment and an arrest..and, for some reason ,that is not easy to get, so it leaves me with still some doubts.

But, please do not tell me how to react to a granddaughter who could be in danger if Jason killed Michelle
The walls are closing in, and
C could be in more danger than ever.

Now, the other reasons for not being able to identify with LF and MF, may be more superficial, and based on internet rumors, so, I will just wait for that to come out.

But, of course I feel bad they lost their daughter and sister, anyone would, but their non~action to do anything about C, causes
me more to question their thinking.

And, on another note, I am not even going to pretend I know all that is involved with the will , life insurance, and/or guardianship.

Completely over my head, out of my field.

And, lastly, one of the bottles of medicine I saw in the s/w does not even look like it was opened...


JMO

Kat

So, in summary, does that mean you think worse of Michelle's family because they did not immediately attempt to take custody of Cassidy? Cassidy has been under the watchful eye of Pat since Michelle's murder. Do you have concerns about this arrangement?

[Kat4Eagles]

So, in summary, does that mean you think worse of Michelle's family because they did not immediately attempt to take custody of Cassidy? Cassidy has been under the watchful eye of Pat since Michelle's murder. Do you have concerns about this arrangement?


No, but first I have to apologize for such a long post!

But, there had to be times when C was alone with Jason.

I never understood the lack of concern for C , I saw on this
board.

People would even post that she said the words "daddydidit" .

But, no one seemed to mind that she was living with someone
they perceived a killer.

I personally have never thought she was in danger, but, then
I am still struggling with the thought that Jason is a killer.

But, most of you had determined that ages ago.

Me?

I wanted proof.

Kat

[annalyzer]

I must not have looked at the sw's completely, or missed one. I didn't see any photos in them.