Dec 1 -

[steffaroob4]

Something I found: (http://en.allexperts.com/q/Hunting-1633/Hornady-17-Mach-2.htm)

Question
I have recently read in Guns & Ammo that the Hornady .17 Mach 2 will fit in a 22 long rifle magazine. I have two Browning Long Rifles, one semi-auto and a lever action that shoots BL 22/cal/22 Short/Long and Long Rifle. Will they shoot safely in my rifles and will they shoot accurate? Thank you for the assistance.

Answer
There is no way that you want to fire a .17 caliber bullet through a .22 caliber bore.
Briefly; the .17 caliber bullet is roughly .17 inches in diameter and the .22 caliber bore on your .22 rifles, is .22 inches in diameter. Therefore the smaller .17 caliber bullet would not seal into the .22 caliber bore and would bobble on down the bore, bashing side to side until it exited. You could expect near zero accuracy. Doing this exercise is probably not dangerous, save for doing some damage to the bore and the eratic flight that the bullet would take, once it leaves the bore.


It is interesting that there seems to be a magazine aricle about this, I will keep digging.

[GentleBreeze]

Since there were problems at work it could be related to the person those problems were with.

From the beginning the little boy denied shooting either one. It wasn't until he was led into confessing that he claimed he shot them and even then what he said doesn't fit known facts.


They said they were minor disputes. IIRC, Tim Romans was a foreman and Vincent was a supervisor. They said there was a dispute with a coworker and Vincent about keys to a forklift.

The minor disputes in a bar may have been over politics at the time.



imoo

[GentleBreeze]

phone woke hubby.

Does a .22 rifle shoot .17 caliber ammo?
No... Well, maybe it could (not sure if it can be modified, says bullet is longer and a little thinner that a .22 bullet), A .17 caliber gun is great for killing small rodents and such, it would be a great gun for place like the desert.

I guess he wasn't much help, but his initial thought was NO.


That is what my hubby said too.

He looked at the photo and thinks the casing is either a .22 long or a .22 long rifle. He measured some .22 shorts he has but said that he thinks those are a little short to be the casing in the photo.

imoo

[LindaNJ1216]

Since there were problems at work it could be related to the person those problems were with.

From the beginning the little boy denied shooting either one. It wasn't until he was led into confessing that he claimed he shot them and even then what he said doesn't fit known facts.

ok...a guy from work...he doesn't bring his own weapon? Give me a scenario for the boy and his actions that day. How do you explain the phone call Tim was on and the boy if it was a guy from work?

[bkwits]

Something I found: (http://en.allexperts.com/q/Hunting-1633/Hornady-17-Mach-2.htm)

Question
I have recently read in Guns & Ammo that the Hornady .17 Mach 2 will fit in a 22 long rifle magazine. I have two Browning Long Rifles, one semi-auto and a lever action that shoots BL 22/cal/22 Short/Long and Long Rifle. Will they shoot safely in my rifles and will they shoot accurate? Thank you for the assistance.

Answer
There is no way that you want to fire a .17 caliber bullet through a .22 caliber bore.
Briefly; the .17 caliber bullet is roughly .17 inches in diameter and the .22 caliber bore on your .22 rifles, is .22 inches in diameter. Therefore the smaller .17 caliber bullet would not seal into the .22 caliber bore and would bobble on down the bore, bashing side to side until it exited. You could expect near zero accuracy. Doing this exercise is probably not dangerous, save for doing some damage to the bore and the eratic flight that the bullet would take, once it leaves the bore.


It is interesting that there seems to be a magazine aricle about this, I will keep digging.

Thanks, Steff, good info. :smile:

[bkwits]

LOL Mine finally said the other night that he is going to take me to shoot every gun he and his grandfather owns, so I'll know for myself.

Oh and to Linda, I can't say if he did or didn't do it. I would think if he didn't do it, look at the step mother. I think the intruder theory is a little unlikely, but then again stranger things have happened. Again, I haven't seen enough evidence to point me one way or the other. jmo

LOL, I had asked my son to tell me about guns. He looked startled and worried for a few seconds until I told why I wanted to know about them. Later when we talked about it, he said I would be dangerous with a gun. He is right. :ohmy:

[steffaroob4]

That is what my hubby said too.

He looked at the photo and thinks the casing is either a .22 long or a .22 long rifle. He measured some .22 shorts he has but said that he thinks those are a little short to be the casing in the photo.

imoo

Lol, at least you got him to look at some pics. Hubby says .22 ammo would be cheaper, so I say, well then a guy would just buy the cheap stuff for his kid to shoot. Hubby said NO, some guys are just quirky about shooting and would spend extra money for better accuracy, even for their kids.

[GentleBreeze]

ok...a guy from work...he doesn't bring his own weapon? Give me a scenario for the boy and his actions that day. How do you explain the phone call Tim was on and the boy if it was a guy from work?

Yeah, doesn't bring his own weapon to the scene and decides to pick a .22 youth rifle where there were other guns in the home.:confused: Then walks out and leaves them both alive knowing somehow that the boy then will come behind them and finish killing them both. :confused:

The Apache website said that Mrs. Romans was on the phone at 4:52 pm and she asked him where he was and he told her at Vincent's home and Vincent had just walked in the door.

imoo

[bkwits]

ok...a guy from work...he doesn't bring his own weapon? Give me a scenario for the boy and his actions that day. How do you explain the phone call Tim was on and the boy if it was a guy from work?

At this point, we don't know what weapon was used, so why are you assuming someone did not bring their own weapon?

[GentleBreeze]

Lol, at least you got him to look at some pics. Hubby says .22 ammo would be cheaper, so I say, well then a guy would just buy the cheap stuff for his kid to shoot. Hubby said NO, some guys are just quirky about shooting and would spend extra money for better accuracy, even for their kids.


He said that the 17 is slimmer and it would wear and scar the bore of a .22 when it is fired as it would wobble since it is slimmer than a .22.

LOL I know what you mean. Some want the latest thing out and the cost is not in the equation.

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

What is minor to you or I or even the police might not be minor to someone else. A female Yankee fan intentionally ran over and killed a Boston Red Sox fan. I'm sure some people thought that rivalry was minor but to her it wasn't.


If that were true they would have come prepared and not pick the lightest caliber gun there that required 10 shots to get the job done imo.

imoo

[bkwits]

Shooting them may not have been the intent. It could have been a spur of the moment decision.

We don't know what the boys actions were that day. You have labeled him a liar in other posts but you believe every word he said AFTER he admitted to the shootings. I think his original story was the truth and he admitted to the shootings after being led into it.


If the child was mad at his dad and shot him, what was his reason for shooting Tim. According to LE's theory, Tim did not witness the child shooting his dad, but had to call Tim into the house. If he shot his dad, why didn't he just run out the back door?

Why was it necessary to shoot Tim?:confused:

[lurkinghere2]

What I'd really like to know is.............For those of you that do not believe he did this...exactly how do you think it happened?

if he had no part in the shootings...we're supposed to believe he walked over a dead Tim...through a cloud of smoke & stuck his bookbag under the kitchen table then found his dad...???????

someone ...an intruder...came into the house to murder two men with no gun or weapon instead using one he finds in house, takes no money and frames a little boy???


Tif wanted out & found a way to pull a Mary Winkler -- only she didn't take the kid to keep him protected, she hung him out to dry & fed him a story to tell -- which he tried & got confused on & mucked up -- & she said to him something like "don't worry, you're just a kid. you'll go to "juvie" for a little while, but they'll know it wasn't you & then you'll get out & it will all be OK" --- since we're speculating. :cool:

[steffaroob4]

If that were true they would have come prepared and not pick the lightest caliber gun there that required 10 shots to get the job done imo.

imoo

Since you mention 10 shots, here is something I found during my searches. Browning 10-Shot .22-Caliber Buck Mark Pistol Magazine (http://www.gandermountain.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?r=view&i=402956)

Can forensics tell what gun was used to fire the shell casings if it was a rifle used?

[Justice_Dawg]

phone woke hubby.

Does a .22 rifle shoot .17 caliber ammo?
No... Well, maybe it could (not sure if it can be modified, says bullet is longer and a little thinner that a .22 bullet), A .17 caliber gun is great for killing small rodents and such, it would be a great gun for place like the desert.

I guess he wasn't much help, but his initial thought was NO.

I new that. :tonguewag:

[lurkinghere2]

It's as good a theory as an 8 year old shooting 2 grown men repeatedly with a childs gun.

There is also the report that Tif is pregnant. If that is true, I would wonder if it is VRs. If not, it would make this speculation more plausible.

[Justice_Dawg]

#1 the crime scene photo with the manual, look in the bottom right hand corner to see part of the gun.
http://ktar.com/?nid=237&sid=993970&pid=4

#2 the crime scene photo of the bullets are 17 caliber, not .22 caliber
http://www.kpho.com/slideshow/news/18019101/detail.html

#3 The manual that is in the Crime scene photos was for a semi-automatic rifle with a detatchable mag that held 10 rounds. It is for a mossberg 702 Plinkster 22 caliber

[Justice_Dawg]

There is also the report that Tif is pregnant. If that is true, I would wonder if it is VRs. If not, it would make this speculation more plausible.

I just saw photos of her. She looks skinnier than she did in her wedding photos.

[muska]

Full transcripts of the lawyer's interviews with the two women detectives now available at

azfamily.com

I've only read one quickly - three quick interesting items: there was a different type of bullet hole in the truck, the grandfather refused the second interview for the boy but the police went and overrode him by getting permission from Tiffany(grandfather must actually have legal say over step-mom) and there were significant problems with people from work

[Justice_Dawg]

If the child was mad at his dad and shot him, what was his reason for shooting Tim. According to LE's theory, Tim did not witness the child shooting his dad, but had to call Tim into the house. If he shot his dad, why didn't he just run out the back door?

Why was it necessary to shoot Tim?:confused:

Only stepmom and dad did beatings. They were to hard on the boy. He had nothing against Tim. I could tell that from the "confession" tape.

That is only one of the reasons I don't think he did this crime.

[steffaroob4]

#3 The manual that is in the Crime scene photos was for a semi-automatic rifle with a detatchable mag that held 10 rounds. It is for a mossberg 702 Plinkster 22 caliber

Wait a minute, who said the boy's gun was a cricket .22???

[Crispy]

Wait a minute, who said the boy's gun was a cricket .22???

In the hearing transcripts the one officer said cricket, in the video the boy said chipmunk.

[lurkinghere2]

Oh, so new evidence came in then? Where is the link, I'm dying to see. Where are the phone records indicating that Tim was on the phone before he was killed. How long was the phone call? Who was he talking to? Do tell, curious minds and all.
She was speculating based on someone else's speculation.
No new evidence here.

[Justice_Dawg]

Wait a minute, who said the boy's gun was a cricket .22???

He did, his grandmother did. Why?

[steffaroob4]

In the hearing transcripts the one officer said cricket, in the video the boy said chipmunk.

This is all so strange, why the picture of that manual, if that isn't the case the gun came from? So maybe that gun could have had a 10 shot clip???

[Justice_Dawg]

In the hearing transcripts the one officer said cricket, in the video the boy said chipmunk.

http://www.uberarms.com/long-guns-keystone-sporting-arms.html

[steffaroob4]

Only stepmom and dad did beatings. They were to hard on the boy. He had nothing against Tim. I could tell that from the "confession" tape.

That is only one of the reasons I don't think he did this crime.

I thought there was only ONE .22 rifle in the house. Where is this other .22 at, that has a 10 shot clip?

[GentleBreeze]

Shooting them may not have been the intent. It could have been a spur of the moment decision.

We don't know what the boys actions were that day. You have labeled him a liar in other posts but you believe every word he said AFTER he admitted to the shootings. I think his original story was the truth and he admitted to the shootings after being led into it.


How does one reload and shoot ten times and it be spur of the moment.

The very repeated actions shows premeditation. He didn't stop until he got the job done.

imoo

[Justice_Dawg]

This is all so strange, why the picture of that manual, if that isn't the case the gun came from? So maybe that gun could have had a 10 shot clip???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSCSDpp8aA0

[steffaroob4]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSCSDpp8aA0

Thanks.
Man, I wish I was in AZ, so I could grab the crime scene photo disc from the state. I wonder what other pictures we are missing, something sure is odd, I was definately under the impression there was only one .22 in the house.

[GentleBreeze]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSCSDpp8aA0


Sure is no pop and then a delay between those shots. He shoots slowly at first but then shoots the gun repetitively 10 shots in a row sounding like continuous fire.

Not consistent with the neighbors statement to police about hearing a pop then a delay each time but the .22 youth rifle is which has to be reloaded each time.

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

Thanks.
Man, I wish I was in AZ, so I could grab the crime scene photo disc from the state. I wonder what other pictures we are missing, something sure is odd, I was definitely under the impression there was only one .22 in the house.


Wasnt that said in the transcripts as well? Only found one .22?

[Justice_Dawg]

Thanks.
Man, I wish I was in AZ, so I could grab the crime scene photo disc from the state. I wonder what other pictures we are missing, something sure is odd, I was definately under the impression there was only one .22 in the house.

Nope Two .22 rifles

The photo of the manual gun:
The generous 10-round capacity metal magazine keeps you ready for all the action, and the 702 Plinkster® features an automatic bolt lock - keeping the bolt open, after the last shot is fired from the magazine. The .22 caliber (Long Rifle only) free-floating barrel employs an 8-groove, 1 in 16" RH twist, and is locked to the receiver for long-lived reliability.
http://www.mossbergintl.com/pages/702plinkster.htm

And the .22 chipmunk on the dog cage.

[Justice_Dawg]

Thanks.
Man, I wish I was in AZ, so I could grab the crime scene photo disc from the state. I wonder what other pictures we are missing, something sure is odd, I was definately under the impression there was only one .22 in the house.

That gun does pop.

[steffaroob4]

Wasnt that said in the transcripts as well? Only found one .22?

I thought they said only one .22 in the house.

[GentleBreeze]

If the child was mad at his dad and shot him, what was his reason for shooting Tim. According to LE's theory, Tim did not witness the child shooting his dad, but had to call Tim into the house. If he shot his dad, why didn't he just run out the back door?

Why was it necessary to shoot Tim?:confused:

Collateral damage. Soon Tim would be walking in that house and then he would see his friend murdered on the stairway. Tim would know that no one was there but this boy.:ohmy:

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

I thought they said only one .22 in the house.


Yes, I was under the same impression too, steff.

[Justice_Dawg]

Anyone else think that is where Brewer was going when he asked if any bullets were dropped or scattered anywhere?

And think about it,

10 round gun.
10 shots fired.
Crime scene photo
No bullets dropped

[muska]

It's unbelievable in the Avilla interview how she insists that she thought the child was covering for someone and that's why she kept hammering him. She says she didn't stop to read him his rights because she didn't believe he meant it when he started saying "maybe I did it" and then all of a sudden....Bingo! We're suppose to believe she didn't consider him a suspect until the very last time he says "I think..." And if she thought he was covering, why would she suddenly think he wasn't?

Maybe you've discussed the bullet in the truck. I thought I looked through the earlier posts but I'll look again. If you haven't, what do you think? And how about Leroy not wanting that second interview to occur?

[Justice_Dawg]

I thought they said only one .22 in the house.

Nope. They never said that.

[Justice_Dawg]

Wasnt that said in the transcripts as well? Only found one .22?

Give me a transcript page and line on that please.

[LindaNJ1216]

At this point, we don't know what weapon was used, so why are you assuming someone did not bring their own weapon?

OK, the intruder brought his own weapon and just for kicks the intruder decided to grab a child's gun and place it on the dog kennel. Is that what you expect me to believe? Where does the phone call & the boy come in?

[LindaNJ1216]

Shooting them may not have been the intent. It could have been a spur of the moment decision.

We don't know what the boys actions were that day. You have labeled him a liar in other posts but you believe every word he said AFTER he admitted to the shootings. I think his original story was the truth and he admitted to the shootings after being led into it.


I never said I believed what came out of the boys mouth afterwards. I said the boy was a liar and a murderer.

Oh and you still haven't answered my questions

[Justice_Dawg]

OK, the intruder brought his own weapon and just for kicks the intruder decided to grab a child's gun and place it on the dog kennel. Is that what you expect me to believe? Where does the phone call & the boy come in?

Any 8 yr old who does something bad, HIDES IT.

[steffaroob4]

Anyone else think that is where Brewer was going when he asked if any bullets were dropped or scattered anywhere?

And think about it,

10 round gun.
10 shots fired.
Crime scene photo
No bullets dropped

I think there is a reason Brewer hasn't accepted the plea deal, I feel safe to say that it was a good deal for a guilty child. I wonder what he knows, I also thought his questions for the police officers that questioned the boy was great, he seems to headed in a certain direction.
I tell you, ever since I heard 10 shots, something just seems wrong with the state's theory. I also want to know what the 2 different sets of crime scene markers were on the news video outside of the home. I have never liked that hole in the screen door, either.

[LindaNJ1216]

If the child was mad at his dad and shot him, what was his reason for shooting Tim. According to LE's theory, Tim did not witness the child shooting his dad, but had to call Tim into the house. If he shot his dad, why didn't he just run out the back door?

Why was it necessary to shoot Tim?:confused:

The boy imo thought it was necessary

[bkwits]

Thanks.
Man, I wish I was in AZ, so I could grab the crime scene photo disc from the state. I wonder what other pictures we are missing, something sure is odd, I was definately under the impression there was only one .22 in the house.



Where did it come from that there was only one .22 in the house?

[Justice_Dawg]

Where did it come from that there was only one .22 in the house?

Linda and Breezy.

[bkwits]

The boy imo thought it was necessary

Why, it makes no sense. Why take a chance that someone sees him out in front.?

[LindaNJ1216]

Tif wanted out & found a way to pull a Mary Winkler -- only she didn't take the kid to keep him protected, she hung him out to dry & fed him a story to tell -- which he tried & got confused on & mucked up -- & she said to him something like "don't worry, you're just a kid. you'll go to "juvie" for a little while, but they'll know it wasn't you & then you'll get out & it will all be OK" --- since we're speculating. :cool:

So she murdered them? She has an alibi as well as phone records to back up her story.

[Justice_Dawg]

So she murdered them? She has an alibi as well as phone records to back up her story.

What phone records does Tiffany have?

[LindaNJ1216]

Not if shooting them was a spur of the moment decision.
Impossible....your conveniently forgetting the phone call

[steffaroob4]

Where did it come from that there was only one .22 in the house?

Honestly, I have thought that for a while, I will have to see where I got that from tomorrow, I had to pick it up somewhere.

[LindaNJ1216]

Oh, so new evidence came in then? Where is the link, I'm dying to see. Where are the phone records indicating that Tim was on the phone before he was killed. How long was the phone call? Who was he talking to? Do tell, curious minds and all.

It's common sense. All they had to do was pick up his cell phone and look:tonguewag:

[Justice_Dawg]

I never said I believed what came out of the boys mouth afterwards. I said the boy was a liar and a murderer.

Oh and you still haven't answered my questions

Boy are you in for a surprise. :tonguewag:

[LindaNJ1216]

She was speculating based on someone else's speculation.
No new evidence here.

Please don't respond for me.

[Justice_Dawg]

It's common sense. All they had to do was pick up his cell phone and look:tonguewag:

Then not say anything about the "exact time" of the call at the hearing.

LOL Mayberry cops. :tonguewag:

[GentleBreeze]

Since you mention 10 shots, here is something I found during my searches. Browning 10-Shot .22-Caliber Buck Mark Pistol Magazine (http://www.gandermountain.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?r=view&i=402956)

Can forensics tell what gun was used to fire the shell casings if it was a rifle used?

Yes they can, steff. Each gun has its own unique strike mark where it hits the end of the bullet/casing. It leaves markings and those markings will be consistently seen at the same place on each casing that was fired from the same gun. The firearm expert will fire the weapon and have casings for comparison.

imoo

[LindaNJ1216]

Linda and Breezy.

Link to where I stated that please

[LindaNJ1216]

Boy are you in for a surprise. :tonguewag:

I won't hold my breath:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[bkwits]

OK, the intruder brought his own weapon and just for kicks the intruder decided to grab a child's gun and place it on the dog kennel. Is that what you expect me to believe? Where does the phone call & the boy come in?

You can believe what you like. My mind is open to many possibilities. From the looks of that house, that gun could have laying there for days. IMO

[Justice_Dawg]

Link to where I stated that please

:tonguewag::tonguewag::tonguewag:

[GentleBreeze]

It's common sense. All they had to do was pick up his cell phone and look:tonguewag:

You mean it was that hard? :tonguewag:

And of course they will also have Mrs. Romans phone records too. I am sure she saved that call and did not delete it. She may have even showed it to them if he called her and it was on her caller ID.

imoo

[LindaNJ1216]

Then not say anything about the "exact time" of the call at the hearing.

LOL Mayberry cops. :tonguewag:

OBVIOUSLY they didn't need to:tonguewag:

[Justice_Dawg]

OBVIOUSLY they didn't need to:tonguewag:

Because the timeline doesn't fit

[LindaNJ1216]

:tonguewag::tonguewag::tonguewag:

I NEVER said there was one 22

I don't know if there was one, two or six.

Why ? do you think now that an intruder used another gun and then returned it....only to retrieve the boys and leave it on the crate?

[GentleBreeze]

I think there is a reason Brewer hasn't accepted the plea deal, I feel safe to say that it was a good deal for a guilty child. I wonder what he knows, I also thought his questions for the police officers that questioned the boy was great, he seems to headed in a certain direction.
I tell you, ever since I heard 10 shots, something just seems wrong with the state's theory. I also want to know what the 2 different sets of crime scene markers were on the news video outside of the home. I have never liked that hole in the screen door, either.


One set would be for casings found and the other ones would be for any blood drops that were found.

imoo

[Justice_Dawg]

You can believe what you like. My mind is open to many possibilities. From the looks of that house, that gun could have laying there for days. IMO

An 8 yr olds reaction would have been to throw it in the closet...IF he had been the shooter.

[LindaNJ1216]

Because the timeline doesn't fit

Only in your mind....the judge thought it all fit well enough:wink:

[Justice_Dawg]

One set would be for casings found and the other ones would be for any blood drops that were found.

imoo

Are you an investigator like me?? :tonguewag:
Or do you watch CSI? :lol:

[GentleBreeze]

Because the timeline doesn't fit


It fits perfectly to me.

No one there but Tim, Vince and the boy.

I have always felt the time line is going to be one of the best things the DA has in the case.

They have cinched him down to such a tight time line it leaves no room for anyone else to have done this crime.

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

Are you an investigator like me?? :tonguewag:
Or do you watch CSI? :lol:

I use to work for one and have three family who are investigators.

I don't watch CSI.

imoo

[LindaNJ1216]

An 8 yr olds reaction would have been to throw it in the closet...IF he had been the shooter.

Wow you sure have it all figured out, except you still can't explain away what little evidence we know about. Hmmmm sounds like grasping at straws to me....I understand your wanting this boy to be innocent and your attempting to spin it beyond recognition..... I like to call it the Cindy Anthony Syndrome
:tonguewag:

[GentleBreeze]

Only in your mind....the judge thought it all fit well enough:wink:

:lol: What does he know.......he is just THE Judge presiding of the actual case. :tonguewag: He probably watches CSI too. lol

[Justice_Dawg]

Only in your mind....the judge thought it all fit well enough:wink:

The hearing was the 7th. The men weren't even cold yet! The judge had the cops word. Nothing else. NOTHING.

HOW MUCH DO YOU WANT TO BET THAT MR. BREWER DOES NOT HAVE FORENSIC/BALLISTIC DISCOVERY AT MONDAY'S HEARING?????

I am serious.

[Justice_Dawg]

I use to work for one and have three family who are investigators.

I don't watch CSI.

imoo

I guess working fo one qualifies you. I am sure you followed family members to crime scenes.

I guess you are in.

[Justice_Dawg]

:lol: What does he know.......he is just THE Judge presiding of the actual case. :tonguewag: He probably watches CSI too. lol

The judge that let him out for the Holiday. :tonguewag:

[LindaNJ1216]

The hearing was the 7th. The men weren't even cold yet! The judge had the cops word. Nothing else. NOTHING.

HOW MUCH DO YOU WANT TO BET THAT MR. BREWER DOES NOT HAVE FORENSIC/BALLISTIC DISCOVERY AT MONDAY'S HEARING?????

I am serious.

How much do you want to bet the boy takes the deal?

Be careful what you wish for...one day... this boy...with a name change no doubt .......could be living near you and interacting with your loved ones

[Justice_Dawg]

It fits perfectly to me.

No one there but Tim, Vince and the boy.

I have always felt the time line is going to be one of the best things the DA has in the case.

They have cinched him down to such a tight time line it leaves no room for anyone else to have done this crime.

imoo

The neighbor who got home at 4:45pm saw and heard nothing. How does he fit?

[LindaNJ1216]

The judge that let him out for the Holiday. :tonguewag:


Where's the boy now?:tonguewag::tonguewag:

[GentleBreeze]

The judge that let him out for the Holiday. :tonguewag:

Yeah and put him right back in 48 hours.

imoo

[bkwits]

It fits perfectly to me.

No one there but Tim, Vince and the boy.

I have always felt the time line is going to be one of the best things the DA has in the case.

They have cinched him down to such a tight time line it leaves no room for anyone else to have done this crime.

imoo

Not really. IMO

[LindaNJ1216]

The neighbor who got home at 4:45pm saw and heard nothing. How does he fit?

Reminds me of myself! When I lived in a condo the man that lived behind me. His bedroom backed up to mine. He laid on his bed and shot himself in the head. I was lucky the firewall was there! :scared: I never heard a thing, yet across the parking lot in another condo building neighbors had heard it.

I was awake too, tv was on low. Maybe it had to do with which way the wind is blowing? I have no idea about the finer points of ecoustics

[GentleBreeze]

Give me a transcript page and line on that please.

A link to what? My questions?:confused:

When steff, mentioned that about the only .22 found all I know is I have read it. I asked was it said in the transcripts.:confused:

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

Not really. IMO

IMO, it does.

imoo

[Crispy]

HOLY CRAPANOLI!!!

I just read both of the transcripts of the interviews.
My eyes are about done.

OK, in the first hearing the guy said there was only one .22. It's in Vol. 1 Part B page 42 I think. Then in these interviews, they say they took all the .22's. They also say that there was bullets spilled everywhere upstairs and Tiffany Romero said Vincent was always dropping them. They say that they collected his clothes but that the gunpowder residue wasn't back yet and then she goes on to say they are going to test the height of the GSR to determine the height of the shooter. They also say that there was some blood on his jeans, but they don't know who's yet. The bullet hole in the truck was from a stray bullet at a party that Tim was at on the reservation. Tim was involved with the girl at the bar and the boys attorney insinuated that there could be more than one girl but they weren't sure about that. There is way more but I can't remember all of it.

[LindaNJ1216]

IMO, it does.

imoo

I share your opinion!

The phone call is what really does this kid in. The time is soooo tight, no one else could have done it

[muska]

The phone call between Tim and his wife was only 2 minutes and 30 seconds....not much time. Wasn't he already on the phone as they pulled up, I remember something about his wife saying they got home and Vincent went inside.

[GentleBreeze]

Any 8 yr old who does something bad, HIDES IT.

What 8 year old kid has done something this bad? I have never even heard of an 8 year old killing their parent much less committing double homicides.

And 8 year olds aren't like shoe sizes. What fits one may not fit the other one.

imoo

[Justice_Dawg]

A link to what? My questions?:confused:

When steff, mentioned that about the only .22 found all I know is I have read it. I asked was it said in the transcripts.:confused:

imoo

Sorry, My Bad.
I don't know where you read it, but is isn't true.

[Crispy]

Tim did have a prior drug arrest and he did serve time in prison for it. They didn't have all the criminal records on everybody back yet.

Tanya Romans has gotten an attorney and is being difficult. that's what the det. said, not me. She refused something about Tims cell phone, but they do have the records that she was on the phone with him for like 2 minutes at 4:52(I'm not exactly sure about that)

The step mother was at the store. She went to two different stores after work. She got a call from Vincent at 4:27 saying he just got off work. They do have videotape that puts her at Wilburs at like 4:20, but the videotape is digital and it shuts off and retapes over it I think is what they said.

[Justice_Dawg]

What 8 year old kid has done something this bad? I have never even heard of an 8 year old killing their parent much less committing double homicides.

And 8 year olds aren't like shoe sizes. What fits one may not fit the other one.

imoo


There you go!!
Case Closed!

[lurkinghere2]

Please don't respond for me.

Geez, sorry. Was I wrong in that interpretation?
Thought I was helping.

[LindaNJ1216]

What 8 year old kid has done something this bad? I have never even heard of an 8 year old killing their parent much less committing double homicides.

And 8 year olds aren't like shoe sizes. What fits one may not fit the other one.

imoo

Remember that red haired boy named Jeffery that killed the little neighbor kid named Dillon years ago? He was charged as an adult and is still in prison...I just can't remember how old he was when he murdered that little boy. He was scary as hell....he had walked right into the police station and offered to help them.

[Justice_Dawg]

Tim did have a prior drug arrest and he did serve time in prison for it. They didn't have all the criminal records on everybody back yet.

Tanya Romans has gotten an attorney and is being difficult. that's what the det. said, not me. She refused something about Tims cell phone, but they do have the records that she was on the phone with him for like 2 minutes at 4:52(I'm not exactly sure about that)

The step mother was at the store. She went to two different stores after work. She got a call from Vincent at 4:27 saying he just got off work. They do have videotape that puts her at Wilburs at like 4:20, but the videotape is digital and it shuts off and retapes over it I think is what they said.

From your mouth to God's ears.

Yep, that is the what we know so far. Well a little more than that but it's a start.

How did you find out?

[Crispy]

I put the individual PDF's in the Links thread for anybody that needs them

[LindaNJ1216]

Geez, sorry. Was I wrong in that interpretation?
Thought I was helping.

yes, you were

apology accepted

[lurkinghere2]

So she murdered them? She has an alibi as well as phone records to back up her story.


In the transcripts I see where she may have an alibi. Due to the gag order, I don't know that it has been confirmed. So, yeah, she could have done it or had it done.

You asked for theories & based on the information we have so far, and the lack of it, too, mine is as plausible as the "the kid did it" one.

[LindaNJ1216]

I put the individual PDF's in the Links thread for anybody that needs them

thank you:)

[LindaNJ1216]

In the transcripts I see where she may have an alibi. Due to the gag order, I don't know that it has been confirmed. So, yeah, she could have done it or had it done.

You asked for theories & based on the information we have so far, and the lack of it, too, mine is as plausible as the "the kid did it" one.

actually yours isn't as credible/ You haven't explained the boy and the phone call away.

[Crispy]

The civil attorney that Tanya Romans got was interested in the video games that the boy was playing. Also, she refused to give them Romans cell phone number and her attorney called three days later and said she would cooperate.

[lurkinghere2]

yes, you were

apology accepted

OK. Then what did you mean, 'cause I really thought I was reading your response to the other person in that fashion.

If you've already answered, then just tell me what post # & I'll go read. I just don't recall seeing it.

[Crispy]

When the boy was interviewed by CPS, he asked her aren't you gonna ask me why I did it? and she said if you wanna tell me and he said cause he got to his 1,000 spanking that weekend. :sad:

Of course that is paraphrased through me and through the detective so I will say jmo

[Justice_Dawg]

The phone call between Tim and his wife was only 2 minutes and 30 seconds....not much time. Wasn't he already on the phone as they pulled up, I remember something about his wife saying they got home and Vincent went inside.

And a car pulled up.

The boy said it looked like Leroy's car.

[LindaNJ1216]

OK. Then what did you mean, 'cause I really thought I was reading your response to the other person in that fashion.

If you've already answered, then just tell me what post # & I'll go read. I just don't recall seeing it.

Your post was 862...you made the allegation that it was speculation based on someone else's. Before answering for ME, you should have familiarized yourself with my posts.

Then you apologise....only to turn around & want me to clear it up for you? The audacity:w00t:

[lurkinghere2]

actually yours isn't as credible/ You haven't explained the boy and the phone call away.

Which call?
The one from VR to Tif?
The one from the child to Tif?
or the one from TRs wife to him?

If you mean the reference TR saying he was being called by the boy, if there was someone in the house with the boy, at that point he could have been being held & told to call Tim in.

[LindaNJ1216]

Which call?
The one from VR to Tif?
The one from the child to Tif?
or the one from TRs wife to him?

If you mean the reference TR saying he was being called by the boy, if there was someone in the house with the boy, at that point he could have been being held & told to call Tim in.

Tims

oh...well that explains it:rolleyes:

[lurkinghere2]

Your post was 862...you made the allegation that it was speculation based on someone else's. Before answering for ME, you should have familiarized yourself with my posts.

Then you apologise....only to turn around & want me to clear it up for you? The audacity:w00t:

It's not audacity. Really.
I know what I posted to the other poster relative to what you had posted prior. I've read this whole thread & I'm not trying to cause or have a problem with you. I am at a loss as to why you have decided to have this attidude with me & I will go back and try to understand what happened in my misunderstanding of what you answered.

I apologized sincerely & tried to ask a question sincerely because I'm confused.

[LindaNJ1216]

goodnight...off to read these transcripts

[Justice_Dawg]

I like that pdf file. I can copy and paste from it. :thumbsup:



BB: Um, i-is the difficulty in interviewing her, is she’s refusing or because, no one wants ta, broach that issue because ‘a the difficult nature of what we’re talking about?


DN: No, um, she, got an attorney, um, fairly quickly. Um, a civil attorney, um, from what he’s told us, he’s interested in any of the video games ***** was playing. So, she refused to even give us Tim’s cell phone number, and, she told us we had ta go through her attorney, um, he, after he called me three days later, um, told me that, he, um, has asked her ta cooperate with us, and, but she’s been very, difficult. She does, you don’t, if you get the ch, opportunity, to, um, question Tanya, she questions you. It’s not the other way around.

Didn't someone here tonight say that they just had to look at Tim's cell phone to know the time of the call???
$hit they can't even get his phone number!! ROFLMAO

Mayberry cops.:w00t:

[Justice_Dawg]

It's not audacity. Really.
I know what I posted to the other poster relative to what you had posted prior. I've read this whole thread & I'm not trying to cause or have a problem with you. I am at a loss as to why you have decided to have this attidude with me & I will go back and try to understand what happened in my misunderstanding of what you answered.

I apologized sincerely & tried to ask a question sincerely because I'm confused.

You are fine. No worries!:smile:

[lurkinghere2]

OK, Linda. I see where I should not have used " speculating based on someone else's speculation " as the answer I gave. But, January was asking about new evidence and I was only trying to let her know that there was no new evidence.
When I asked you to show me where you answered, I meant where you answered her question about new evidence, that you got mad at me for answering out of turn.
_____________________
#837
12-06-2008, 09:22 PM
LindaNJ1216

Quote:
Originally Posted by bookie
Since there were problems at work it could be related to the person those problems were with.

From the beginning the little boy denied shooting either one. It wasn't until he was led into confessing that he claimed he shot them and even then what he said doesn't fit known facts.
++++++

ok...a guy from work...he doesn't bring his own weapon? Give me a scenario for the boy and his actions that day. How do you explain the phone call Tim was on and the boy if it was a guy from work?
_____________________
#856
12-06-2008, 10:03 PM
January
Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by LindaNJ1216
ok...a guy from work...he doesn't bring his own weapon? Give me a scenario for the boy and his actions that day. How do you explain the phone call Tim was on and the boy if it was a guy from work?
++++++
Oh, so new evidence came in then? Where is the link, I'm dying to see. Where are the phone records indicating that Tim was on the phone before he was killed. How long was the phone call? Who was he talking to? Do tell, curious minds and all.

_____________________
#856
12-06-2008, 10:03 PM
January
Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by LindaNJ1216
ok...a guy from work...he doesn't bring his own weapon? Give me a scenario for the boy and his actions that day. How do you explain the phone call Tim was on and the boy if it was a guy from work?

++++++
Oh, so new evidence came in then? Where is the link, I'm dying to see. Where are the phone records indicating that Tim was on the phone before he was killed. How long was the phone call? Who was he talking to? Do tell, curious minds and all.
___________________________-
#862
12-06-2008, 10:10 PM
lurkinghere2
Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by January
Oh, so new evidence came in then? Where is the link, I'm dying to see. Where are the phone records indicating that Tim was on the phone before he was killed. How long was the phone call? Who was he talking to? Do tell, curious minds and all.
++++++
She was speculating based on someone else's speculation.
No new evidence here.
_____________________

[GentleBreeze]

I am not through looking at all of them but I find the blood found on his pants extremely interesting. So much can be learned from blood patterns such as blow back and blood spatter.

He made a point to say he nudged his father's body with the toe of his shoe.

So it will be interesting when those forensic tests comes back, for sure.

imoo

[lurkinghere2]

You are fine. No worries!:smile:

Thanks:biggrin:
But I have obssesively searched out the error of my ways and posted it to clear my name. Maybe it didn't need clearing, but I was feeling inappropriately called out & I am new enough on this board that I didn't want to be remembered that way.:unsure:

[bkwits]

I like that pdf file. I can copy and paste from it. :thumbsup:



BB: Um, i-is the difficulty in interviewing her, is she’s refusing or because, no one wants ta, broach that issue because ‘a the difficult nature of what we’re talking about?


DN: No, um, she, got an attorney, um, fairly quickly. Um, a civil attorney, um, from what he’s told us, he’s interested in any of the video games ***** was playing. So, she refused to even give us Tim’s cell phone number, and, she told us we had ta go through her attorney, um, he, after he called me three days later, um, told me that, he, um, has asked her ta cooperate with us, and, but she’s been very, difficult. She does, you don’t, if you get the ch, opportunity, to, um, question Tanya, she questions you. It’s not the other way around.

Sounds like Tonya is getting ready for the big lawsuit.

[Justice_Dawg]

Sounds like Tonya is getting ready for the big lawsuit.

Cause hubby was messin with Candy? :scared:

[bkwits]

Thanks:biggrin:
But I have obssesively searched out the error of my ways and posted it to clear my name. Maybe it didn't need clearing, but I was feeling inappropriately called out & I am new enough on this board that I didn't want to be remembered that way.:unsure:

Some of us love you.
:

[bkwits]

Cause hubby was messin with Candy? :scared:

No, sue the Romero family. Her lawyer asked for the video games that the boy played.

[Justice_Dawg]

It looks like they are going to blame Sony and/or Nintendo.

Maybe he was playing CandyLand


:ohmy:

[bkwits]

It looks like they are going to blame Sony and/or Nintendo.

Oh yeah, that's where the money is. She has a lawyer for some reason. IMO

[Justice_Dawg]

No, sue the Romero family. Her lawyer asked for the video games that the boy played.

Back to the Crowe case with the Dungens and Dragons games.

GMAB!

[Crispy]

It looks like they are going to blame Sony and/or Nintendo.

Even if she plans to sue, what is the harm in giving them the cell phone number? I would think that would be something that she would want to give so it could verify her story. jmo

[bkwits]

Maybe he was playing CandyLand


:ohmy:

And got stuck in the molasses? :thumbsup:

[bkwits]

Even if she plans to sue, what is the harm in giving them the cell phone number? I would think that would be something that she would want to give so it could verify her story. jmo

Maybe there was no phone call. Could be. :sneaky:

[Justice_Dawg]

And got stuck in the molasses? :thumbsup:

We are bad. This is serious. :cool:

Now does everyone know why I posted about The "NEW RACIAL CHIEF" the other night?
Now that the paper is out you can all see Vincent was Hispanic.
The Chief was sued twice in Mass in 2005 and 2008 for racial slurs to officers ie" "token jew" "token black" things of that nature.

The boy is very Hispanic looking.
He didn't get a lot of his moms looks.

[muska]

When the boy was interviewed by CPS, he asked her aren't you gonna ask me why I did it? and she said if you wanna tell me and he said cause he got to his 1,000 spanking that weekend. :sad:

Of course that is paraphrased through me and through the detective so I will say jmo

Why would he have been talking with a CPS person without a lawyer present? If his mother had been in town, could she have said no to this CPS interview? It seems he should have had a right not to say self-incriminating things about himself, as an adult would, but because he's eight and doesn't know any better, they just trampled his rights.

[Crispy]

I have no clue why there wasn't anyone there.

[bkwits]

Sorry, I posted this in the WRONG place.
-----------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by Crispy
PDF of Commander Avilla's interview with defense atty
http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/Avilla.pdf
PDF of Det. Neckles interview with defense atty
http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/Neckel.pdf

---------------------------------------------------
Crispy, this is interesting.


BB: Um, and, and how long was yer interview with him?
TA: Oh, maybe fifteen minutes.
BB: And what was he wearing?
TA: You know, I believe, blue jeans and, maybe a, long sleeve, navy blue, black, type, s, pullover shirt.
BB: What kinda shoes, you remember?
TA: I know he had tennies, but I don’t remember what they looked like.
BB: Okay.
TA: I remember that wa, noticin that but I don’t, remember the color. Think they, I don’t think they were white.
BB: Did anything, distract yer attention or draw your attention to, his clothing…
TA: No.
BB: …any, unusual?
TA: No.

This is from the first link you posted. BB is Ben Brewer, Esq. and TA is Theresa Avilla, the cop? Is that right? Does anyone notice what's wrong with this picture?

WHAT????? I've read that six times. Nothing jumps out.

Does the child go to Catholic school?

[Crispy]

Question: Does anyone know if the woman that Tim was having the affair with (Cindy or Candy was it?) is she married or does she have any other b/f(s) besides Tim? Has anyone checked that out yet?

It was Candy and in the one PDF with Neckel it says that she is not married.

[muska]

Tim did have a prior drug arrest and he did serve time in prison for it. They didn't have all the criminal records on everybody back yet.

Tanya Romans has gotten an attorney and is being difficult. that's what the det. said, not me. She refused something about Tims cell phone, but they do have the records that she was on the phone with him for like 2 minutes at 4:52(I'm not exactly sure about that)

The step mother was at the store. She went to two different stores after work. She got a call from Vincent at 4:27 saying he just got off work. They do have videotape that puts her at Wilburs at like 4:20, but the videotape is digital and it shuts off and retapes over it I think is what they said.

It said they had video of her first trip at about 3:30 but by the time they realized she'd made a later trip, the store's video had already been erased. There was no video of her in the store at 4:20. She had a receipt to show she was there, but anyone could have given her a receipt to use as an alibi. She did have someone who said he/she saw her at another store right afterwards though.
I can't help but feel that she has some big or small role in all of this.

[Crispy]

Thanks muska, I knew it was something that happened where they didn't have the video. I read through it so fast!

[bkwits]

Well, for someone that has just blown away two men's heads off, NO BLOOD ON THIS KIDS CLOTHES? The lawyer asks, do you see see anything about his little outfit that is out of the ordinary and Goober there goes, nope! :blush:

Of course, Brewer set that up nicely.

[Justice_Dawg]

Sorry, I posted this in the WRONG place.
-----------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by Crispy
PDF of Commander Avilla's interview with defense atty
http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/Avilla.pdf
PDF of Det. Neckles interview with defense atty
http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/Neckel.pdf

---------------------------------------------------
Crispy, this is interesting.


BB: Um, and, and how long was yer interview with him?
TA: Oh, maybe fifteen minutes.
BB: And what was he wearing?
TA: You know, I believe, blue jeans and, maybe a, long sleeve, navy blue, black, type, s, pullover shirt.
BB: What kinda shoes, you remember?
TA: I know he had tennies, but I don’t remember what they looked like.
BB: Okay.
TA: I remember that wa, noticin that but I don’t, remember the color. Think they, I don’t think they were white.
BB: Did anything, distract yer attention or draw your attention to, his clothing…
TA: No.
BB: …any, unusual?
TA: No.

This is from the first link you posted. BB is Ben Brewer, Esq. and TA is Theresa Avilla, the cop? Is that right? Does anyone notice what's wrong with this picture?

What am I missing???--------
This is Neckel Report:
BB: Okay. Um, Did you, did you photograph the clothes before you seized them?
DN: No I didn’t.
BB: Aand, a-and, and Matt didn’t either, then?
DN: No.
BB: And you together on this, as far as goin there?
DN: Mm-hm.
BB: Um, and did you notice anything un-unusual about the clothing?
DN: No.
BB: Were they blue jeans?
DN: Blue jeans, yes.
BB: And, uh, uh, and the pullover was, what color?
DN: Black, I believe, very dark.
BB: Okay. And that was his shirt, jacket…
DN: It was his shirt.
BB: …-combo er…
34
DN: It was a shirt but, it had a funky texture to it. And I’m, thinkin that, um, I don’t umm, thermal, maybe, it’s, it just had a, a different texture.
BB: Okay. And then you collected some shoes?
DN: Um, yes.
BB: And what, what kinda shoes were those?
DN: Just tennis shoes.
BB: Were they white, were they black, were they old, new, dirty?
DN: Ol, um, dirty, yeah, dirty tennis shoes, dirty jeans…
BB: Okay.
DN: I mean, they were, they were, older, blue jeans, too.
BB: Um, and, uh, but you didn’t notice anything unusual when you were pickin up the clothes.
DN: Nothing.
BB: I mean, no, stains from wet pants er anything like that.
DN: No.
BB: Um, no sox?
DN: No sox.
BB: No underwear?
DN: No underwear.
BB: And no, other shirt.
DN: No other shirt.BB: (unk), okay. Um, a-a-as far as the, um, uh, the collection of the evidence, you indicated that you both, had gloves on.

[Justice_Dawg]

Well, for someone that has just blown away two men's heads off, NO BLOOD ON THIS KIDS CLOTHES? The lawyer asks, do you see see anything about his little outfit that is out of the ordinary and Goober there goes, nope! :blush:

LOL, I don't see him as the shooter, so of course I was taking that for granted.:thumbsup:


Tiffany went to NAPA (AUTO PARTS) to EXCHANGE CLOTHS.

ROFLMAO!

[muska]

There's been a lot of talk about the child not showing much emotion. We already had heard that he went to Tiffany and was upset when she arrived at the house. In the transcripts, it also said that he asked to call his step-mother within about 10 minutes of this happening. He called her on a neighbor's cell phone but couldn't get the words out so the neighbor talked to Tiffany. He trusted her.

[bkwits]

Why would he have been talking with a CPS person without a lawyer present? If his mother had been in town, could she have said no to this CPS interview? It seems he should have had a right not to say self-incriminating things about himself, as an adult would, but because he's eight and doesn't know any better, they just trampled his rights.

Exactly right. I am not emotionally invested in whether the kid did it or not (I hope he didn't) but rather in the total trampling of his rights. And unlike adult cases where it is done in secret, this is right out in the open. Like no one in LE sees anything wrong with it. Well, as long as they can pin it on someone, I guess. IMO

[Crispy]

LOL, I don't see him as the shooter, so of course I was taking that for granted.:thumbsup:


Tiffany went to NAPA (AUTO PARTS) to EXCHANGE CLOTHS.

ROFLMAO!

I believe she went to order Vincent more coveralls. From the reports it doesn't look like one hand is aware of the other hand. I mean so far in everything we have read, they all say something different. Most of it is not big glaring things, but little differences. jmo and all that

[Justice_Dawg]

Yeah, like where's the blood, where's the gray matter? :ohmy:

Head shot, close range.
Blood and matter spatter EVERYWHERE!

[Justice_Dawg]

I believe she went to order Vincent more coveralls. From the reports it doesn't look like one hand is aware of the other hand. I mean so far in everything we have read, they all say something different. Most of it is not big glaring things, but little differences. jmo and all that

Tiffany didn't work that day.

[bkwits]

Good night all. It's way past my bedtime. :seeya:

[Justice_Dawg]

So I'm late to the party and I don't have all the information. Tiffy went to NAPA to exchange clothes. her clothes or the boys clothes?????

some cloths it says.

[Crispy]

Tiffany didn't work that day.

Oh, in the other report it said she went to Wilburs for work and that was the one they had on videotape. I know the report said that she went to order coveralls, cause when I read she went to Napa to exchange clothes I knew that couldn't be right. jmo

[Justice_Dawg]

Good night all. It's way past my bedtime. :seeya:

Night!!!:seeya:

[Crispy]

Good night all. It's way past my bedtime. :seeya:

Night :seeya:

[muska]

Tiffany didn't work that day.

Why do you say that? In the transcripts it says she made her first trip to the store at 3:30 to get milk and donuts to take back to work.

[Justice_Dawg]

Oh, in the other report it said she went to Wilburs for work and that was the one they had on videotape. I know the report said that she went to order coveralls, cause when I read she went to Napa to exchange clothes I knew that couldn't be right. jmo

What is a Wilbers?
This is Ohio speaking:tonguewag:

[Crispy]

What is a Wilbers?
This is Ohio speaking:tonguewag:

LOL Fellow Buckeye here. I can only guess that Wilburs is a kind of grocery store. She said she went back to get the stuff to make dinner. Only a guess though

ETA: We have hit 1,000 posts so I'm going to start a new thread for this coming week.

[Dallasnc]

http://www.azfamily.com/yahoo_rss/stories/phoenix-local-news-110708-double-murder.18c702709.html?ocp=1#slcgm_comments_anchor

This is the link of spoke of the other night. Lots of opinions from locals.
There are alot of pages but well worth the read. Here is an example.

Anla: I Understand that and agree to a point. But unfortunately for him, his skin is brown and he's not Mormon. He will NEVER get a fair shot in this town.

[Justice_Dawg]

Okay, so I am presuming that the boy did not change his clothes before this local yocal questioned him. If that is the case, it begs to be asked WHY didn't she take his clothing? If he DID change his clothes, this begs to be asked, WHY didn't she take his clothing?

And this final question that just begs to be asked. Are these cops on drugs? Because even if he was being questioned as a "witness" or a "victim" everyone knows that in a murder, EVERYONE is a suspect until they are cleared. That is SOP.

g'night BK!It's Mayberry hon.

They said NOTHING but a spot of blood on the pants.
I am at looking at NO GSR. They test for that before they test for blood. :thumbsup:

[Justice_Dawg]

This is the link of spoke of the other night. Lots of opinions from locals.
There are alot of pages but well worth the read. Here is an example.

Anla: I Understand that and agree to a point. But unfortunately for him, his skin is brown and he's not Mormon. He will NEVER get a fair shot in this town.

Thank you so much for all of your help! :beer:

[Crispy]

OK I started a new thread and I PM'd for a sticky, so we are all set for this coming week. There is supposed to be a hearing on Mon. isn't there?

[Dallasnc]

Thank you so much for all of your help! :beer:

Forgot the link but I edited my post. It's there now.

[Justice_Dawg]

OK I started a new thread and I PM'd for a sticky, so we are all set for this coming week. There is supposed to be a hearing on Mon. isn't there?

Yes, 9AM MST I think it's Mountian ??

[Justice_Dawg]

I for one would like to see Tiffy's itinerary for the day moment by moment. I would like to know where she was, who she was with and what she was doing.

I would also like an investigation into whether Candy has any other boyfriends who may have a pending interest in where Candy and Tim spend their free time together.

You guys are the detectives......go detect!

I'll check back tomorrow. Going to bed.
Good Night my friend!

[muska]

One last thought tonight. When the lawyer, Brewer, asks Neckles about her interview of the boy, she goes on a lot about her feeling that he did not seem to be lying:

"I was looking for signs he was lying and IM TRAINED TO LOOK FOR THOSE SIGNS AND UM I WASNT SEEING ANYTHING. I mean, no, he just, kind of swung his legs n, kind of played with his fingers a little bit, BUT HE DIDNT SHOW ANY TYPICAL, IM NOT TELLING THE TRUTH SIGNS."

If she's so trained and she couldn't find any signs that he was lying, maybe it's because he wasn't. I don't know why that possibility didn't occur to her. I guess she just had her mind so made up before she ever walked in the room.

The thing that's scary now is that they may never want to admit to all these mistakes.

[PensiveOne]

OK maybe I missed this or maybe I just wasn't paying attention.

In the transcript of the hearing (Vol 1 Part B Page 42), the guy, Rodriguez?, said no other type of 22 was found in the house. In the crime scene photos they have a pic of a manual for a Mossberg. Where is that gun?

Bingo...the missing piece. I think it was Justice that talked about this the other day. The mossberg also has a magazine that hold 10 bullets. JMO

[PensiveOne]

OK..It's my understanding IF he's charged as an adult that would be he would be placed in a secure residential facilty for youthful violent offenders where he would be educated and recieve intensive therapy until he's 18 yrs old. It's my understanding at that time he would be evaluated and it would be determined at that time if he was rehabiliated, he'd be released. If he was deemed to still be a danger he would then be moved to an adult prison.

Is this incorrect? Is that how it works in AZ?

If that is correct...what's wrong with that?

Linda, my cousin was charged as an adult. He was held in one of the worst prisons in Indiana until his trial. He was segregated for his protection. He was there 2 and 1/2 years. I don't know about Arizona, I would like to know. What happened to my cousin was many years ago and I hope things have improved, but I don't know...good question:sad:

[PensiveOne]

I am not seeing anything but the manual and then the brown soft gun cases underneath it. Looks like another gun case to the right and maybe another manual.

Here is a 17 caliber bullet.

http://www.castleofevil.com/othersites/17cal/main.htm

Found this blog: http://www.convolutedbrian.com/prosecutor-and-police-undermining-their-child-victim.html


excerpt:
Investigators are claiming that the boy shot each male at least four times with a Crickett Youth Rifle. This bolt‑action rifle requires a precise placement of the shell in the barrel. After the bolt is closed, the firing pin must be manually cocked before firing. Then the bolt is used to open the breech again. The only ammunition collected so far is a partial box of 22 caliber casings necked down to 17 caliber bullets. The empty shell casings around the scene do not match.

I don't know where he is getting his (blogger) info...but if he is correct then the box of ammo isn't related to the shooting...JMO

[PensiveOne]

If the child was mad at his dad and shot him, what was his reason for shooting Tim. According to LE's theory, Tim did not witness the child shooting his dad, but had to call Tim into the house. If he shot his dad, why didn't he just run out the back door?

Why was it necessary to shoot Tim?:confused:

Yep, that has been bothering me, as well...:thumbup:

[PensiveOne]

When the boy was interviewed by CPS, he asked her aren't you gonna ask me why I did it? and she said if you wanna tell me and he said cause he got to his 1,000 spanking that weekend. :sad:

Of course that is paraphrased through me and through the detective so I will say jmo
:unsure: So he says he did do it...I didn't want to hear that...

[Justice_Dawg]

New Thread!

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=346309

[interested]

Found this blog: http://www.convolutedbrian.com/prosecutor-and-police-undermining-their-child-victim.html


excerpt:
Investigators are claiming that the boy shot each male at least four times with a Crickett Youth Rifle. This bolt‑action rifle requires a precise placement of the shell in the barrel. After the bolt is closed, the firing pin must be manually cocked before firing. Then the bolt is used to open the breech again. The only ammunition collected so far is a partial box of 22 caliber casings necked down to 17 caliber bullets. The empty shell casings around the scene do not match.

I don't know where he is getting his (blogger) info...but if he is correct then the box of ammo isn't related to the shooting...JMO


I really wish folks would actually check into what they're talking about rather than assuming they know. A .22 necked down to a .17 mearly means the casing, is a .22 & exactly what would be used in the rifle.

The neck has been pinched to hold a smaller bullet to increase velocity and in doing so the damage or power of the shot.

The best definition I can find, although in an article regarding language not ballistics.

http://www.umsl.edu/~sauterv/analysis/creativity/30ONLANGUAGE.html

''It refers to ammunition,'' volunteered another viewer, Freeman Dennis. ''Usually the bullet and the casing are the same size. However, if one wanted to put a smaller bullet on the same-size casing, it would be necessary to close the neck of the shell casing to accommodate the smaller bullet -- to 'neck it down.' This is done to increase the velocity of the bullet or improve its ballistics.

Yes I realize there's another thread, I see no need to put this there, it doesn't belong there.

[PensiveOne]

I really wish folks would actually check into what they're talking about rather than assuming they know. A .22 necked down to a .17 mearly means the casing, is a .22 & exactly what would be used in the rifle.

The neck has been pinched to hold a smaller bullet to increase velocity and in doing so the damage or power of the shot.

The best definition I can find, although in an article regarding language not ballistics.

http://www.umsl.edu/~sauterv/analysis/creativity/30ONLANGUAGE.html



Yes I realize there's another thread, I see no need to put this there, it doesn't belong there.

Thanks for the clarification.

[Justice_Dawg]

New Thread!

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=346309

BUMP, we are way over the limit here.