Legal Question

[JD1974]

Ok guys I need some help with this one. Friend of mine was dating a guy, they were together maybe 2 years, she called the law on him a few times and he broke her nose last year (she didn't press charges). Everytime she tried to leave she would get welfare called on her, he broke into her house and busted some items, plus her vehicles would have something wrong with it (only while they were broke up) well anyway she left him for another guy, hoping finally he would leave her alone, didn't work. So when she left the new guy and went back to him it was worse, emotional abuse like I have never seen, mind games, crazy stuff.

Ok so anyway, he gets arrested in May and gives her power of atty, including power of atty for his social security. They write back and forth and in the letters he tells her what to spend the money on, you know buy the kids this, pay the electric bill etc. Oh and his mom had to sign over his car (although it has never been in his name, always in his moms) over to her because she is going through bankruptcy.

So fast forward to July, she starts talking to someone she has known for 10 years and she has been in love with him for that long, he was married so it never went far, nothing improper at all. Anyway the guy tells her he still has feelings for her, friend still does too. So she is now scared to tell the boyfriend that is in jail whats going on, she finds out he will get out in Oct and she books to another state and marries the new guy. In Oct they stopped his soc sec because they found out he was in jail.

Now the ex from hell is trying to get her for felony theft, how can he do that if she has poa, opened the account in both names and changed his soc sec to go there because the bank where he had his account was so far away, his mom voluntarily put the car in her name, which by the way HE has posession of, she just has the title. Plus she has letters from him stating what to spend the money on, not to mention all the phone bills she paid with his and her money so he could call every day, dropped him money off in jail etc.

Only gave the background to be fair to both sides. She called LE on him numerous times and kicked him out numerous times, finally when she escapes this is what happens, so any answers out there?

[Details]

IMO - ignore him until and unless actual charges are filed. Threats are cheap - and empty. Most likely he's got nothing. Even if there is something (I'm wondering about collecting those SS funds he wasn't supposed to have in prison) - he'd be equally guilty, and very unlikely to call the law.

Ignore him, keep him at arms length. And there's a board - IIRC, Findlaw - where she can get better advice from real lawyers. There are places online to get free advice from real lawyers - go find them.

[JD1974]

To my knowledge there are no real lawyers on this board. If you're friend needs help she should ask a lawyer because from what it sounds like she is going to need one anyway. She can go down to the court house and ask to set up an appt with the public defender if she has no money.

Has she been charged?

Has a summons to appear for a felony, what I don't get is I don't think she even got enough ss money for it to be a felony and since it is small town he is trying to use the car is mine and everyone knows it and no one has ran the registration yet.

[JD1974]

IMO - ignore him until and unless actual charges are filed. Threats are cheap - and empty. Most likely he's got nothing. Even if there is something (I'm wondering about collecting those SS funds he wasn't supposed to have in prison) - he'd be equally guilty, and very unlikely to call the law.

Ignore him, keep him at arms length. And there's a board - IIRC, Findlaw - where she can get better advice from real lawyers. There are places online to get free advice from real lawyers - go find them.

Oh yeah I think he is trying to blame her for not turning him in when he was in jail because they are coming after him for it. For one I don't think she even knew you couldn't collect and makes me wonder if he has lied about some stuff to ss to get this to go forward. I seen some records she has from paying for him to call also, at max he collected 2k in ss while in jail she paid 500 of that on phone bills.

[Details]

Has a summons to appear for a felony, what I don't get is I don't think she even got enough ss money for it to be a felony and since it is small town he is trying to use the car is mine and everyone knows it and no one has ran the registration yet.If he's charging her, and a summons will do that - then it's time to talk to that lawyer - a free one should probably do for now, they'll say if you really need a proper lawyer.

But - the thing is - if he makes the charge, they have to go through with the summons and all of that - the court case is to find out what the truth is. After all, the registration could have been forged. The judge will want to see her paperwork, and it could be dismissed out of hand, or might go for awhile. Hmm - since she's charged, or has a summons, she might be due a public defender, free of charge. She should look into that immediately.

[Details]

Oh, please - can we please, just this once, not spend half the thread attempting to dissect if this is a 'real' poster, or if they're talking about someone and looking for hidden motives, lies, etc. - and just discuss the problem? I hate these threads for that reason - someone posts a problem, and a bunch of bitter sleuths (don't ask me why they're bitter - they were fooled once and are determined never to be again, even if that means hurting and accusing a bunch of honest people?) start looking to poke any hole they can in the story, in the poster's past, etc.

I've seen a lot of honest requests for help turn into 'gotcha' threads - and the 'gotcha' posters never seem to learn when the request turns out real - they just go on to the next with the same attitude.

Doesn't matter whether this is the poster or not, whether someone here is definitely a lawyer or not, etc. - this is a person presenting a problem they'd like to help a friend with - other people can post advice or not, as they'd like.

[JD1974]

Who told you that if you don't take enough SS money that belongs to someone else it is not a felony? Theft of SS no matter what amount is a felony.

IMO, You are posting way too much TMI that can come back to hurt you. How do you know your ex or someone he knows isn't here reading here or anywhere else you post?

:shrug:


LOL I have been married for years, everyone who has seen my posts know that. Mistyped because I was on the phone talking to her. Not sure about the computer thing though.
I did find out there are letters threatening that if she doesn't go back to him THEN he will turn it in. Also tells her in Sept, the last time there is a check, that he isn't supposed to be getting ssi and that he is the only one that can turn that in, that part was weird I don't know.

[Details]

LOL I have been married for years, everyone who has seen my posts know that. Mistyped because I was on the phone talking to her. Not sure about the computer thing though.
I did find out there are letters threatening that if she doesn't go back to him THEN he will turn it in. Also tells her in Sept, the last time there is a check, that he isn't supposed to be getting ssi and that he is the only one that can turn that in, that part was weird I don't know.Threats are, IMO, empty. If he had anything, he'd go for it. Especially since it sounds like she's got more than enough on him that if he went for her, she could put him back in jail for a long time.

[JD1974]

Oh, please - can we please, just this once, not spend half the thread attempting to dissect if this is a 'real' poster, or if they're talking about someone and looking for hidden motives, lies, etc. - and just discuss the problem? I hate these threads for that reason - someone posts a problem, and a bunch of bitter sleuths (don't ask me why they're bitter - they were fooled once and are determined never to be again, even if that means hurting and accusing a bunch of honest people?) start looking to poke any hole they can in the story, in the poster's past, etc.

I've seen a lot of honest requests for help turn into 'gotcha' threads - and the 'gotcha' posters never seem to learn when the request turns out real - they just go on to the next with the same attitude.

Doesn't matter whether this is the poster or not, whether someone here is definitely a lawyer or not, etc. - this is a person presenting a problem they'd like to help a friend with - other people can post advice or not, as they'd like.


Thanks the part I am trying to find out is if it was illegal for him to give her permission to spend that money. Obviously he knew she was he wrote multiple letters about it, then the threatening her if she doesn't go back to him or show him "respect" then he will turn her in for spending them after he knew she was. I am totally lost lol I am trying to find the power of atty he signed, she said she got it from a free site and it states specifically on there she can make changes with ssi, his lawyer and a police officer were witnesses so there is no way he can say she forged that. Also car was never in his name, only her name, then to his mom, then back to her cause his mom was filing bankruptcy and they would of taken it.

[JD1974]

Threats are, IMO, empty. If he had anything, he'd go for it. Especially since it sounds like she's got more than enough on him that if he went for her, she could put him back in jail for a long time.

That was my initial thought, he killed his case by writing the letters that she was smart enough to keep!

[Details]

Yeah. If she doesn't want to ignore him completely, I'd just write back - I've got every letter you sent me telling me how to spend the money, I've got the title, and I've got the power of attorney - file charges, and I'll turn it all over to the DA or SS administration so they can decide what to file on you - or some similar thing.

But she knows most hopefully about how safe this all is - how violent he might be, does he know where she is, etc. Maybe more subtle wording about how she's checked all the letters of his that she has, the POA, and doesn't see where there's anything she could be convicted of - make the point more subtly that she has the documentation to prove the truth.

Legally - she'd need to find an attorney to be sure she's in the clear. But to me, it sounds like he'd be in trouble too, on anything they could get her on. And as a felon, he'd be in far worse trouble. And as a felon, he no doubt knows this. So he'd be trying to bluff her into caving into him again.

[JD1974]

Yeah. If she doesn't want to ignore him completely, I'd just write back - I've got every letter you sent me telling me how to spend the money, I've got the title, and I've got the power of attorney - file charges, and I'll turn it all over to the DA or SS administration so they can decide what to file on you - or some similar thing.

But she knows most hopefully about how safe this all is - how violent he might be, does he know where she is, etc. Maybe more subtle wording about how she's checked all the letters of his that she has, the POA, and doesn't see where there's anything she could be convicted of - make the point more subtly that she has the documentation to prove the truth.

Legally - she'd need to find an attorney to be sure she's in the clear. But to me, it sounds like he'd be in trouble too, on anything they could get her on. And as a felon, he'd be in far worse trouble. And as a felon, he no doubt knows this. So he'd be trying to bluff her into caving into him again.


I am just confused as to what he is trying to say she stole, if he gave permission?

[Lil Nubbin]

I am just confused as to what he is trying to say she stole, if he gave permission?

Beacause "power of attorney" does not mean she gets the money. It does not mean she can do anything she wants with it. She is just assigned to use the money ON HIS BEHALF. Every cent spent is still in his ocntrol. She is just acting as his agent. If she used any of the money for her own purposes, without his directive, then she is guilty of stealing his money. Power of attorney does not give her any of the money. It is still his.

[JD1974]

Beacause "power of attorney" does not mean she gets the money. It does not mean she can do anything she wants with it. She is just assigned to use the money ON HIS BEHALF. Every cent spent is still in his ocntrol. She is just acting as his agent. If she used any of the money for her own purposes, without his directive, then she is guilty of stealing his money. Power of attorney does not give her any of the money. It is still his.


Yeah I got that, the thing is she has his letters stating use the money for this and this, also paid one hell of a phone bill 500+ because he called from jail.

[Lil Nubbin]

Yeah I got that, the thing is she has his letters stating use the money for this and this, also paid one hell of a phone bill 500+ because he called from jail.

Well, that would all be fine if he wasn't getting the SS illegally. I think she will be an accomplice even if she didn't know it was illegal... ignorance is no excuse in the eyes of the law.

I should think that if the money was deposited into an account that was in both their names, she is entitled to (and responsible for) the money regardless of the source. If you are a part of a joint account, you are both entitled to it.

If she just took the checks and cashed them (if they did not share an account) it would be different. But in this case, I think she is ok to spend anything in that account, legally.

Her problem is (which is a separate issue) that the ss is gotten illegally, and therefore anyone a part of it will get in trouble for it and have to pay it back. jmo

[JD1974]

Well, that would all be fine if he wasn't getting the SS illegally. I think she will be an accomplice even if she didn't know it was illegal... ignorance is no excuse in the eyes of the law.

I should think that if the money was deposited into an account that was in both their names, she is entitled to (and responsible for) the money regardless of the source. If you are a part of a joint account, you are both entitled to it.

If she just took the checks and cashed them (if they did not share an account) it would be different. But in this case, I think she is ok to spend anything in that account, legally.

Her problem is (which is a separate issue) that the ss is gotten illegally, and therefore anyone a part of it will get in trouble for it and have to pay it back. jmo


Very interesting and thanks. I cannot go to court with her because we live in two different states, I do believe they had an account with both names but on that I cannot be positive, I will have to ask her about that because I never even thought about that. Anyway thanks for your help, she is trying to file a ppo on him now because he keeps calling and threatening her, he even said he would run his car through her house...I don't get how women can date men like that and she has children (not his) to think about. I guess all in all and not to sound callous it could of been worse, he could of done something to her children.