8-Year-Old Arrested In Double-Homicide

[Crispy]

As soons I read your post, Crispy, I got a very sick, queezy feeling which I am still feeling. I can't believe they are going forward with this travesty. Is anyone else besides me being affected so hard by this case?

This case is getting to me too. The notice was filed by the defense. It's basically saying the court and/or the government has 45 days from the hearing (the 7th) to take the matter to trial. They can file in writing to have more time.

[StarShine]

Why does this case remind me of the Crowe case? I don't know much about it but the so-called taped alleged confession that I heard sounded more like a coerced false confession to me similar to the Crowe case except this child is only 8 years old.

[Details]

Why does this case remind me of the Crowe case? I don't know much about it but the so-called taped alleged confession that I heard sounded more like a coerced false confession to me similar to the Crowe case except this child is only 8 years old.It's a ton like the Crowe case. In that case, they got two kids to confess to something they didn't do. Didn't bother testing evidence (Tuite's sweatshirt) because they were sure of who was guilty. Ignored information that contradicted who they wanted to be guilty in the case.

We'll see if the parallels continue - in Crowe, they had forensics guys explaining how this crime had to be more than one person (so not Tuite), and how the blood likely wouldn't have splattered, so the lack of blood on the boys wasn't exculpatory (the blood was on Tuite's sweatshirt).

[Details]

Interesting questioning in part 1B - the 47 year old police veteran was shocked - yeah, you'd expect an 8 year old to be far more shocked!

[Justice_Dawg]

As soons I read your post, Crispy, I got a very sick, queezy feeling which I am still feeling. I can't believe they are going forward with this travesty. Is anyone else besides me being affected so hard by this case?Yes, Me :seeya:

[interested]

Why does this case remind me of the Crowe case? I don't know much about it but the so-called taped alleged confession that I heard sounded more like a coerced false confession to me similar to the Crowe case except this child is only 8 years old.

I don't think that confession has any chance of seeing the light of day in a court room. I don't think LE expects that confession to make it into court. They generally don't release the evidence to the press before trial. They may say they have a confession. Releasing the tape of the confession? They don't do that for rightful fear of tainting the jury and setting the defense up for a successful change of venue.

Either the boy did it which will be supported by his finger prints on the casings and the rifle or he didn't.

I'm far more worried about this boy if he did do it, than if he didn't.

[Justice_Dawg]

I don't think that confession has any chance of seeing the light of day in a court room. I don't think LE expects that confession to make it into court. They generally don't release the evidence to the press before trial. They may say they have a confession. Releasing the tape of the confession? They don't do that for rightful fear of tainting the jury and setting the defense up for a successful change of venue.

Either the boy did it which will be supported by his finger prints on the casings and the rifle or he didn't.

I'm far more worried about this boy if he did do it, than if he didn't.

They tainted a jury by releasing it. :rolleyes:

[interested]

They tainted a jury by releasing it. :rolleyes:

You really should be careful with all that eye rolling, they may stick like that.

Did you have anything intelligent to add to the conversation or were you just dropping by?

[Justice_Dawg]

You really should be careful with all that eye rolling, they may stick like that.

Did you have anything intelligent to add to the conversation or were you just dropping by?

I just posted a fact to your comical post. :seeya:

[Details]

Tainting a jury is a very relevant fact. Without releasing that confession, with it almost certainly inadmissible in court, what a jury would hear is that they've decided this 8 year old killed two men because the wife says she can hear his voice calling Tim - and nothing else. Without that 'taint', I think this would be laughed out of court.

[Details]

Part 2B, page 151 - the hole in the security screen that the officer is pretty darn sure is a bullet hole - he says it's going from outside to in (the shooter was outside) - and from the position he thinks the shooter was aiming at the head and missed - and then he also states that the track of the bullet appears to be downwards, at a down angle.

How tall is this 8 year old supposed to be? Was there a ladder outside?

[interested]

Tainting a jury is a very relevant fact. Without releasing that confession, with it almost certainly inadmissible in court, what a jury would hear is that they've decided this 8 year old killed two men because the wife says she can hear his voice calling Tim - and nothing else. Without that 'taint', I think this would be laughed out of court.


Since we've not yet gotten any of the lab results, I'm not certain how you've made that determination. That's generally why they hold the trial & that's generally when we get to see/hear the evidence.

[Crispy]

Part 2B, page 151 - the hole in the security screen that the officer is pretty darn sure is a bullet hole - he says it's going from outside to in (the shooter was outside) - and from the position he thinks the shooter was aiming at the head and missed - and then he also states that the track of the bullet appears to be downwards, at a down angle.

How tall is this 8 year old supposed to be? Was there a ladder outside?

I took it to mean that Tim was already on the ground and another shot was fired at him. Even with that, the boy doesn't say anything about firing and missing. jmo

[interested]

I just posted a fact to your comical post. :seeya:

Really? Where was that? Facts are something you don't seem to care much for, anonymous comments on blogs and rumors are more up your alley, aren't they?

[Hey Paula]

I don't think that confession has any chance of seeing the light of day in a court room. I don't think LE expects that confession to make it into court. They generally don't release the evidence to the press before trial. They may say they have a confession. Releasing the tape of the confession? They don't do that for rightful fear of tainting the jury and setting the defense up for a successful change of venue.

Either the boy did it which will be supported by his finger prints on the casings and the rifle or he didn't.

I'm far more worried about this boy if he did do it, than if he didn't.

I agree and don't think the "confession" will make its way to the courtroom either. Perhaps they released the confession tape to quell public opinion against LE, since many might find it inconceivable that an 8 year old child would/could commit double murder, one of the victims being his own father.

I recall reading LE was called to that house in the past for domestic violence, but they didn't release the details, TMK. Like you, I'm more concerned about this boy if he did kill his father and Tim. No matter how perfect things appear on the outside to others, no one knows what goes on behind closed doors. Unless this boy has serious psychiatric problems, something caused him to commit such a heinous act.

The incidents of children/teens killing their parents, teachers and fellow students today is certainly alarmingly on the rise. Have they become immune to violence? Many of the video games they play are extremely violent, but the big difference is that those they kill rise up again the next time they play the game, giving them a false sense of the true finality of death.

IMO

[interested]

The police were trying to determine when those calls were made for domestic violence. It appears if they happened, it wasn't recent. I kinda think it may have been during the first marriage?

If they'd been recent, there wouldn't be any need to research when they were or who was involved the father and step mom have only been married since September IIRC. There is a reason dad was given custody of this child rather than mom.

[Details]

No 8 year old - videogame or not - understands death. I share concerns about violent videogames - but when they're 8, they don't need a videogame to tell them death isn't final - they're too young to really grasp that anyway.


Reading all of this, I keep thinking that it sounds more and more like a wife or ex. The idea of some thugs, druggies, or gangster or whatever doesn't fit with Tim's wife's statement - unless again, they threatened the kid to make him call out - and did something like tell him they'd kill mom next if he talked - which is not impossible, not that uncommon. The kid was in shock, or worse yet made to help and told of awful consequences if he told the truth.

The defense lawyer sounds reasonably good so far - not too obnoxious, but bringing out most of the points he should (a crime that shocks 47 year old police officers means an 8 year old who has just seen his father and dad's roomate killed or dead, can be excused for being in no small amount of shock himself).

[Hey Paula]

There is likely much more to this tragedy. I hope and pray LE learns all the facts before prosecuting this little boy. His life has already been negatively altered, but incarcerating him with young criminals/troubled youths, especially if innocent, would likely destroy him.

IIRC, the boy mentioned he was going to "juvie". I wonder where he'd heard that, as I wouldn't think an 8 year old child would have heard that word before because it isn't part of everyday vocabulary. Was he told he would go to "juvie" if he misbehaved?

IMO

[Details]

There is likely much more to this tragedy. I hope and pray LE learns all the facts before prosecuting this little boy. His life has already been negatively altered, but incarcerating him with young criminals/troubled youths, especially if innocent, would likely destroy him.

IIRC, the boy mentioned he was going to "juvie". I wonder where he'd heard that, as I wouldn't think an 8 year old child would have heard that word before because it isn't part of everyday vocabulary. Was he told he would go to "juvie" if he misbehaved?

IMOThere are so very few times when 8 year olds kill - and nearly all of them are a tragedy - abuse of some kind. If he's guilty, they need to look at what happened. But if he's innocent - and that really looks likely right now with how the evidence goes - that little we know about - he's being horribly abused right now - his father is dead, he sees it, then he's told he did it, and he'll be locked away from all of his remaining family. This bit of time he's already been locked away is really bad for him, if innocent - even if guilty, I'd think they could find someplace better to keep him that would be safe.

I'm wondering too about "juvie". Three options - one being a fairly normal bit, a parent, or even roommate who is a bit frustrated, using it as a scare tactic - that's where 'bad boys' go. One would be from classmates and the like - someone from the area mentioned it's got a fair bit of a drug problem, he might have a classmate or friend with an older brother in juvie. Or it could have been a police tactic, scare him with 'juvie' to convince him to tell the truth. Of course, when an 8 year old has told the truth, and is told by an adult that it's not good enough, and pressured, they'll just make up a story that they hope is what the adult wants to hear.

[lucytalk]

What evidence convinced you he was innocent?


well there is that whole innocent until proven guilty thing. he 8 years old, i think he deserves an open mind.

[bkwits]

There is likely much more to this tragedy. I hope and pray LE learns all the facts before prosecuting this little boy. His life has already been negatively altered, but incarcerating him with young criminals/troubled youths, especially if innocent, would likely destroy him.

IIRC, the boy mentioned he was going to "juvie". I wonder where he'd heard that, as I wouldn't think an 8 year old child would have heard that word before because it isn't part of everyday vocabulary. Was he told he would go to "juvie" if he misbehaved?

IMO

One of the female officers who were interviewing the boy had also interviewed him the evening before. I have also been wondering about him using the term "juvie." IMO, it is disgraceful that they treated the boy this way. In reviewing the "interview" or rather interrogation, it is obvious that they suspected him and were leading him into a confession. This whole case is shameless from the beginning when the news came out about the men being killed, the child was immediately labeled a cold killer, without any facts being known.

He may have done it, I don't know. I discussed the case with my son this afternoon. He is an outdoor sportsman, hunter and fisherman. He learned to shoot at 11, and taught his son to shoot at about 13. His daughter now 14 can shoot but not load.

He had heard of the case, but not the details. When I told him that LE seemed to believe that 10 bullets were shot into the men from a single shot rifle allegedly by the boy, he was quite doubtful that was possible.

BTW, as I read the transcript of the Sgt. who first went into the house and surveyed the crime scene, i noticed that he said he saw no unspent shells on the floor or anywhere. That would mean that if a single shot rifle was used, there was not one shell dropped anywhere while the shooter loaded at least 10 times. There is a lot more to come out in this case, IMO.

[Details]

Later testimony describes the position of the shell casings - they were found inside the house. Some on the top landing top of the stairs (they were of the type where it goes halfway up, has a little landing, 180 degree turn, and the other half of the stairs - father's corpse was found on the upper half of the stairs), some on the middle landing in the middle of the stairs, and the rest by Tim's body, IIRC, outside.

Strongly suggests Tim was killed outside. And the trail of blood - described somewhat incorrectly as a stream (in later testimony they explain that what htey mean by stream is a set of dots and spots of blood, indicating Tim was bleeding as he went from his truck to the front door) - fits a gunman outside, coming maybe from a white car, not a gunman inside the house, calling Tim over to him.

Also, the father's body on the landing - 2 casings at the top and more at the middle landing means the gunman had to have stepped over the body. Hard to do with 8 year old short legs.




Ooooh - I see - unspent shells. Yeah, if we want to believe this was an 8 year old kid, he grabbed a bunch of shells, reloaded 10 times, and never dropped a shell and left it there. Had no extras, without putting them neatly in the box. This doesn't sound like a kid, sociopath, abused, anything - none of that changes an 8 year old's coordination and concentration level to something this adult.

[Crispy]

I was reading over at HFTM and someone said the mother will be on Good Morning America tomorrow. It was posted(at least it said) yesterday. I wonder if she is really going to be on, is she not covered by the gag order, I forget? I'm going to DVR it just in case. jmo