Beginning Oct 31

[Ellie]

Wow, do I actually get to start a whole new thread?

Post away! Glad to see we're past the shoe situation (and Lana's mom paid for the shoes, there's no way Lana would have let her mom buy her 7 pairs of shoes if she was planning to end it all any time soon...).

Moving on. :seeya:

[tartangirl]

Good Halloween Morning, Thanks for the thread.

Just posted on the other thread that LKB is on Lisa Bloom now. They have been talking about PS1 and PS2 a little bit.

Still wish we were all watching it together but this will have to do until the closing statement and the verdict I suppose...:confused:

The shoes, guess that will be brought back again too....when they revisit it during the trial.

as always, my opinion, Justice for Lana and those who love her~

[hiitsme]

Lana's state of mind will be an issue in the retrial. The defense contends it was suicide. The same witness' will probably testify in the retrial.



By Harriet RyanCourt TV



LOS ANGELES — Lana Clarkson was disappointed in her career and worried about her future as an aging actress in Hollywood in the months before her death, two former friends told jurors at Phil Spector's murder trial Tuesday.

http://www.courttv.com/trials/spector/071007-pm_ctv.html

MHO

Assuming it will be Punkin Pie and Jennifer Hayes, that's great news for the prosecution. They are hardly qualified to discuss Lana Clarkson's "undiagnosed" depression. MOO

[bballgrl]

Assuming it will be Punkin Pie and Jennifer Hayes, that's great news for the prosecution. They are hardly qualified to discuss Lana Clarkson's "undiagnosed" depression. MOO

Perhaps P Pie will actually wear decent clothing this time around? If she makes a solid first impression, that could be good for the defense. Although, I still doubt the jury will buy anything she is selling ;)

Hi itsme.... LOL

[PJnFlorida]

Whew! I was starting to think our precious board was gone forever. I left after SP1, now I have to start my post count all over again! :confused:

Anyway, I guess KTLA is airing some, but not all, coverage? I missed AJ's opening....

Now I know what I will be doing when the election is over next week!

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Not sure if this is the right place to post this link..and have not seen any links to video of opening statements..so here a little blurp about the opening of PS2:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27431464/

LMS:)

[warhorse46]

Lana's state of mind will be an issue in the retrial. The defense contends it was suicide. The same witness' will probably testify in the retrial.



By Harriet RyanCourt TV



LOS ANGELES — Lana Clarkson was disappointed in her career and worried about her future as an aging actress in Hollywood in the months before her death, two former friends told jurors at Phil Spector's murder trial Tuesday.

http://www.courttv.com/trials/spector/071007-pm_ctv.html

MHO


From your own link

<<Even as they detailed Clarkson's anxiety about her work, however, both men said she never spoke of taking her own life and they did not consider her suicidal.

Asked by a defense attorney about his reaction to an e-mail in which Clarkson said she was going to "tidy up my affairs and chuck it all," Schapiro said he found it "a bit overdramatic." (VIDEO)

Later, he agreed with a prosecutor's assessment of Clarkson as "high maintenance."

"She was given to overdramatics and sort of describing situations in terms..." he said.

"More dire than they were?" suggested the prosecutor.

"Yes," Schapiro said.>>

[warhorse46]

Whew! I was starting to think our precious board was gone forever. I left after SP1, now I have to start my post count all over again! :confused:

Anyway, I guess KTLA is airing some, but not all, coverage? I missed AJ's opening....

Now I know what I will be doing when the election is over next week!


None of the trial is being aired live.

[kennedy06]

Not sure if this is the right place to post this link..and have not seen any links to video of opening statements..so here a little blurp about the opening of PS2:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27431464/

LMS:)

Thank You Lynda, I was never able to view the check offering video before. The one about the hair was good too. The changes are so subtle that I had almost forgotten there were so many different looks. JMO

[roytoy]

You are correct about seeing the physical face of Phil Spector, the appearence of the toad's mind and personality came later.

When people laugh hard, saliva can be expelled when seeing something very funny.

MHO
SFWS

some people, especially when overimbibing, go to the loo and don't sit.

[PJnFlorida]

None of the trial is being aired live.

I haven't checked KTLA yet. I had read this on Sprockets blog,

From my understanding it's because there isn't that much media interest in Spector 2 and because of the high cost of covering a long trial. No one really knows how long the trial will last this time around.

KTLA is not covering it gavel to gavel, just the beginning, maybe some testimony here and there, closings, verdict and sentencing.

:shrug:

[warhorse46]

A person needs to know they are depressed BEFORE they have it "diagnosed!" Or why would they go to a doctor unless they recognized a depression? Even if it is never diagnosed, it doesn't mean the person wasn't suffering from depressions. Friends may recognize it. Of course friends can discuss it. They saw her moods and actions.

The jury will have Lana's words she was depressed. Her emails will no doubt be entered into evidence. What her friends testify to will be backed up by Lana's own words.

She had a depression so severe she trashed her apartment.

From Lana's emails:

"Well, I'm gonna hit the hay. I'm beat after tidying up my pad. I really trashed it in the midst of my depression. Trying to hold my head up high and know that God Samp: Guru has many wonderful things for me. For us all."

http://www.courttv.com/trials/spector/docs/emails.html?page=6



MHO


Once again you are incorrect. A person does not need to know they are depressed to seek medical treatment. Most just know something is not right with them, then they go to a doctor & are diagnosed. Just like when a person is having pain in their chest, they do not know if they are having a myocardial infraction or a severe case of heart burn or an episode of anxiety, they just know something is not right so they go to a doctor to be diagnosed.

[kipswife]

is pumkin pies real name pumkin pie? i didnt notice her on the witness list but did see henry lee's name and wrecht's name.

[kipswife]

Phil Spector is guilty. if he goes to jail, all the better but the truth is the truth. believe what you want, no one will make anyone change their mind. He is a guilty, sad, pitifully man. the majority agrees, the others dont matter.

here's drinking to ps, may we never be like him or like him.

[joolz]

Correct!

But she went to his castle with him, didn't she? I guess his looks weren't an issue with her.

And why did the prosecution only show old photos of Lana Clarkson? And they were old photos, as evidenced by PP's youth and attractive looks in the photos.Why didn't they show more recent photos? What did she look like at that point in her life? Old and tired looking? Whatever the case, the prosecution had a reason for showing only old photographs.

MHO

Have you ever been the the House of Blues in L.A.? They don't hire women who are "old and tired looking" to be hostesses anywhere, let alone the VIP lounge.

[Ellie]

I believe this picture was taken very shortly before Phil killed Lana.... old and tired looking? Hardly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lana_Clarkson

Have you ever been the the House of Blues in L.A.? They don't hire women who are "old and tired looking" to be hostesses anywhere, let alone the VIP lounge.

[hiitsme]

The only castles I've been in were on a guided tour. If someone invited me to Mr. Spector's castle and I walked into that, my first thought would have been this must be the set for the Addams Family and get me out of here!

[hiitsme]

is pumkin pies real name pumkin pie? i didnt notice her on the witness list but did see henry lee's name and wrecht's name.

Her last name is Laughlin ( Eileen Elizabeth or something close)

[hiitsme]

His castle looks pretty nice from the outside.

It did from the pictures shown during PS1. Have you seen it in person?
Maybe he justed needed a new interior decorator.

[kipswife]

It did from the pictures shown during PS1. Have you seen it in person?
Maybe he justed needed a new interior decorator.

i read somewhere that the castle use to be apartments at one point before it got turned back into a house

[hiitsme]

His castle looks pretty nice from the outside.

It did from the pictures shown during the first trial. Perhaps he just needs to hire an interior decorator.

[kennedy06]

I had remembered there is information out there on the web about how the Castle once was and how he came about buying it, but I couldn't remember exactly where I had read it. I looked over on Michelle's blog and while scanning the posts I came across what I believe might be an answer to a question I asked yesterday. The question being wouldn't the help might know if that gun was kept in that drawer. Now it is not an exact answer but the few words does indicate something at least to me that maybe it was. Doesn't indicate if it was there that night but.... I don't know if I can paste it here but:

post titled unfair and unbalanced. 4th paragraph

http://mcontrolblogs.blogspot.com/2007_09_01_archive.html

JMO

[JConnolly]

Correct!

But she went to his castle with him, didn't she? I guess his looks weren't an issue with her.

And why did the prosecution only show old photos of Lana Clarkson? And they were old photos, as evidenced by PP's youth and attractive looks in the photos.Why didn't they show more recent photos? What did she look like at that point in her life? Old and tired looking? Whatever the case, the prosecution had a reason for showing only old photographs.

MHO
PS was probably way more interested in what LC looked like, as opposed to vice versa. Don't forget... SHE was eventually told exactly WHO he was, and to treat him golden. So, I don't believe that her opinion or impression of HIS LOOKS had any bearing whatsoever, in that respect I agree w/you. They weren't an issue with her. She finally broke down and reluctantly accepted his invitation, and it's my opinion she did so only because of what the HOB told her... who he was and how to treat him. I can't remember if it was a no-no for HOB employees to "go home" with a patron tho. Most definitely, it goes without saying that she should never have done that! Regardless of "who" he was.

Anyway, about the photos and age thereof. How do you know that they were so "old" ?? It sounds to me like you're basing that on how PP "looked" youthful and attractive in the photos... so are you saying she no longer looks youthful and attractive? Or have you seen more recent photos (c 2003) of PP that make her look unattractive? I know that makeup and lighting, etc., can make an unattractive person look pretty good.

I don't buy that all the photos of LC were "old" and that any more recent ones would EVER show her "old and tired" -- that wasn't very nice! And I'm curious...
Whatever the case, the prosecution had a reason for showing only old photographs.
I understand this is your opinion, but truly, I sure can't see any reason that 'old' photographs would benefit either side. Can you elaborate on what possible motive the prosecution could've had??

The last photo I ever saw taken of Lana Clarkson showed her DEAD. That wasn't an old photo then...



(I'm not feeling too well today, I hope I made sense)

[kipswife]

Cyril might testify, he might not testify. Same as before.

If Henry Lee is also on the witness list... don't think for one second he'll be testifying.

Ain't gonna happen.

i doubt we will be seeing dr. lee this time around. i cant imagine the new defense will use half of the witnesses from last time. they are trying to get him off and the last time the jury hung on 10:2 for conviction. DA will do a third trial if they hang again because this case calls for conviction. the witness list is pretty long

[kennedy06]

Here is some info on the castle and a comment by PS about the purchase of it. I think there are more details out there to be found. Photos of its original look are easy to find, but LOL I find those pictures most fitting for today, they remind me of the house in Dark Shadows!

http://articles.latimes.com/2007/apr/08/local/me-then8

picture of it back when

http://www.cityofalhambra.org/community/castle.html

JMO

[warhorse46]

Why then did the prosecution only show old photos of Lana Clarkson?

MHO


Incorrect. The pictures of Lana the prosecution used were a year or less old. The ones of her @ a party with the casts still on her arms were less than a year old & the professional head shot one used most often was taken only weeks before her death. That was in the testimony in the first trial.

[warhorse46]

Once again you are incorrect with sweeping statements. That doesn't apply to all persons who have depressions. Some recognize the depression and seek medical treatment, which means they recognize the depression.

I think you also know that some persons suffering from depressions will go on shopping sprees, and can have risky and dangerous behavior. And that suicides are not always planned out, but can be spontaneous--a sudden impulse.

MHO



MHO


Apparently you did not read my post very close or you would have seen the word MOST.

[True2Blues]

I think it is safe to assume Lana saw what Phil looked like BEFORE she left with him to go to his castle! :rolleyes: Also, IIRC, Lana's DNA was found on his private parts, according to testimony.

The procecution contends he straddled Lana, and shoved the gun in her mouth and killed her. This theory doesn't fit the jacket forensics.

There was a void on her dress, where there was no blood. If this is the case, if Phil was straddling her his arm would have intercepted the blood spatter. The sleeve was pristine.

Theory based on the jacket forensics: He walked in the room, saw her with the gun doing role playing or kinky gun play, and in an excited defensive gesture he put his arm across his face and turned slightly to the side when the gun went off. There was blood on the backside of the jacket.

MHO

The DNA was found on his scrotum, along with other unidentified male DNA, as I recall.

As far as straddling Lana goes, I don't recall the Prosecution saying that was the undoubted case. In fact, the animation they used in the last trial showed PS standing beside Lana, not straddling her.

[roytoy]

Correct!

But she went to his castle with him, didn't she? I guess his looks weren't an issue with her.

And why did the prosecution only show old photos of Lana Clarkson? And they were old photos, as evidenced by PP's youth and attractive looks in the photos.Why didn't they show more recent photos? What did she look like at that point in her life? Old and tired looking? Whatever the case, the prosecution had a reason for showing only old photographs.

MHO
kind of hard to show more recent photos of a person who was murdered 5 years ago.

[Ellie]

Incorrect. The pictures of Lana the prosecution used were a year or less old. The ones of her @ a party with the casts still on her arms were less than a year old & the professional head shot one used most often was taken only weeks before her death. That was in the testimony in the first trial.

THANK YOU, warhorse46!! That's what I thought--- the picture of Lana in the blue shirt was taken very close to the day she was killed, I was looking for a link but could't find one, so I'm glad you concur.

[GPSpector]

Lana's state of mind will be an issue in the retrial. The defense contends it was suicide. The same witness' will probably testify in the retrial.



By Harriet RyanCourt TV



LOS ANGELES — Lana Clarkson was disappointed in her career and worried about her future as an aging actress in Hollywood in the months before her death, two former friends told jurors at Phil Spector's murder trial Tuesday.

http://www.courttv.com/trials/spector/071007-pm_ctv.html

MHO


This article is from OCT 7, 2007. No longer can it be considered for this case unless the same witness take the stand THIS YEAR.

No reply is needed.

[bballgrl]

Why then did the prosecution only show old photos of Lana Clarkson?

MHO

How do you know they were old? I was sure they were pretty recent...

[roytoy]

I meant when the Lana Clarkson "old" photographs at te first trial, hadn't been recent. I wasn't talking about photos AFTER the murder! :rolleyes:

MHO

well, the recent years have not been kind to p pie.

the headshot photo was taken right before she was murdered, she had just approved the proof and had not even gotten the photos yet before she was murdered.

since she was murdered over 5 years ago, obviously ms. pie has aged. poorly.

[roytoy]

The photo of Lana with the casts on her wrists were taken in 2002. She had fallen and broke her wrists in December of 2001. Doing the math the photo with Lana with casts on her wrists, was 4 or 5 years old when at the time of the first trial.


MHO


she was murdered in february 2003. what do you not understand?

[hiitsme]

THANK YOU, warhorse46!! That's what I thought--- the picture of Lana in the blue shirt was taken very close to the day she was killed, I was looking for a link but could't find one, so I'm glad you concur.

I think I remember that it was Lana's mom on the witness stand who said when that beautiful picture of Lana was taken. And yes, I'm sure she said it was taken within months of her death. I'm mentioning this from memory, so I have no links.

[bballgrl]

she was murdered in february 2003. what do you not understand?

You can lead a horse to water....;)

[bballgrl]

Professional photographs can be airibrushed to a person look younger. I am sure Lana wouldnt want photos of herself looking old and tired, if that is the case.

Those photos of PP were old photos at the time of the first trial. They weren't talem AFTER Lana's death. Lana was in pictures with PP, and in the photos with the both of them, PP looked young and very attractive!

mho

IMO - PP was NEVER attractive and could not hold a candle to Lana. I think that may have been the reason for her saying what she did about Lana after her death... It's called jealousy. (JMHO)

[roytoy]

Professional photographs can be airibrushed to a person look younger. I am sure Lana wouldnt want photos of herself looking old and tired, if that is the case.

Those photos of PP were old photos at the time of the first trial. They weren't talem AFTER Lana's death. Lana was in pictures with PP, and in the photos with the both of them, PP looked young and very attractive!

mho


i have no idea whether any retouching was done on lana's headshots. she was murdered 5 years ago, and in those 5 years, pp has gone to heck in a handbasket. you'd have to ask her why the years have not been kind to her.

she did look dreadful when she testified last year to the mass xmas letter she sent out in 2003. moo.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

I found this link on KTLA..regarding yesterday's halting of trial due to juror falling an breaking his foot....

http://www.ktla.com/landing_news/?Testimony-Abruptly-Halted-in-Spector-Ret=1&blockID=110746&feedID=171


It seems we're going to be a day late and a dollar short on this trial..but will try to keep up to date as best I can...LOL

LMS:hat:

BTW...has anyone ound the video of opening statements yet??

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Just found Utube site..so far nothing other than initial blurb..but they did say the jury was made up of 6 men and 5 women..with 6 alternate jurors...

When they start downloading actual video of trial.I will put in the link....

LMS:seeya:

[True2Blues]

well, the recent years have not been kind to p pie.

the headshot photo was taken right before she was murdered, she had just approved the proof and had not even gotten the photos yet before she was murdered.

since she was murdered over 5 years ago, obviously ms. pie has aged. poorly.

Some of those photos of PP were definitely older, but they weren't put in by the Prosecution, they were put in by the defense when PP testified.

[GPSpector]

I noticed that no one has put up links to the moving papers. How come? They are online.

Who's moving?

Now would definitely not be a good time to consider buying a new house. If there is a conviction, Rachelle will be stuck with that bill and any monies put on the property will be lost and unless it's paid in full, I doubt she could sell a newly bought house. she probable have to take a huge lose and give the house back.

If he wins, he may be ok, but he sure is risking an awful lot and Rachelle will be the one to lose big time. I hope they have thought long and hard on this.:confused:

[True2Blues]

Professional photographs can be airibrushed to a person look younger. I am sure Lana wouldnt want photos of herself looking old and tired, if that is the case.

Those photos of PP were old photos at the time of the first trial. They weren't talem AFTER Lana's death. Lana was in pictures with PP, and in the photos with the both of them, PP looked young and very attractive!

mho


Even in death, Lana Clarkson was a beautiful woman. As horrible as those photos of her in that chair are, it is still obvious how lovely she was in life.

What possible difference does it make if the photos were "retouched", which they wouldn't have been if they were proofs?

I didn't see one photo where Lana looked old and tired. Pie on the other hand, showed age in her photos and her personal appearance. Both a weight gain and severely sun damaged skin, IMO. If she hadn't wanted those photos shown, she wouldn't have handed them over.

Since they were all celebrations where drinks were present, and the defense was trying to make Lana out to be an alcoholic and or drug user, they found them very helpful. Pie, no matter how bad she looks, got the spot light, which I sincerely believe she'd sell her Granny, Mother, Child (should she have one) and already has sold her soul for. MOO

[GPSpector]

The DNA was found on his scrotum, along with other unidentified male DNA, as I recall.

As far as straddling Lana goes, I don't recall the Prosecution saying that was the undoubted case. In fact, the animation they used in the last trial showed PS standing beside Lana, not straddling her.


Not to be a nit-picker, but did they ever state what type of DNA was found on him? I only ask this because during that last trial (which the poster you were responding to, seems to prefer to talk about), it was stated by the Defense Team (many times) that Lana's DNA was on the bullets, which we all know was very misleading information meant to imply that she loaded the gun when in fact, it was Lana's blood.

[kipswife]

Not to be a nit-picker, but did they ever state what type of DNA was found on him? I only ask this because during that last trial (which the poster you were responding to, seems to prefer to talk about), it was stated by the Defense Team (many times) that Lana's DNA was on the bullets, which we all know was very misleading information meant to imply that she loaded the gun when in fact, it was Lana's blood.

who knows....maybe the DNA is Lana's blood. he may have touched himself after getting all the blood all over him. maybe his privates needed to be adjusted after the let down from killing her. he knew he wont get any after that.

[GPSpector]

I just went to PP's my space. I read someones post that the BC was closed down. I failed to look at the date though. She's the party gal for sure........

Funding probably was not what it used to be to support it. Maybe a major "share holder" lost interest and bailed out.:rolleyes:

[Ellie]

See, I was kinda thinkin' it's called MONEY. "Lana, my best friend, my sister, was murdered at the hands of Phil Spector" (sorry, maybe not word for word...). And then calling the Christmas card she sent out POLITICALLY CORRECT? That's called something else that I don't think we're allowed to say here. ;)


IMO - PP was NEVER attractive and could not hold a candle to Lana. I think that may have been the reason for her saying what she did about Lana after her death... It's called jealousy. (JMHO)

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Not to be a nit-picker, but did they ever state what type of DNA was found on him? I only ask this because during that last trial (which the poster you were responding to, seems to prefer to talk about), it was stated by the Defense Team (many times) that Lana's DNA was on the bullets, which we all know was very misleading information meant to imply that she loaded the gun when in fact, it was Lana's blood.

Nit Pic all you want...I would just guess that Lana's DNA got there when Phill scratched himself..or when he relieved himself..he must of had blood on his hands...not completely washed from his hands with that wet diaper..
I would venture to say..there was NOTHING other than Lana's blood around...and given her wound..it didnt get spread around by anyone other than Phil...I dont believe there was any Sexual fluids found that belonged to Lana...or Phil's fluid on Lana..It is sick to think that Lana would "Chuck it all"..on account of this "Has been"..Sorry Gary..but Lana didnt even know your dad..let alone want to end her life in his presence??..I find that most Suicidal people either do it in privacy..or murder then do themselves in...Certainly not the scenerio Defense wishes to make look probable!!

LMS:seeya:

[Ellie]

Respectfully snipped... Nit Pic all you want...I would just guess that Lana's DNA got there when Phill scratched himself..or when he relieved himself..he must of had blood on his hands...not completely washed from his hands with that wet diaper..LMS:seeya:

Could PS have transferred Lana's DNA through the pockets of his pants, do you think, when he put his bloody hands in them?

[Lyndawitha"Y]

I really hope that the Prosecution brings on the ideations and likelihood of anyone wanting to kill themselves..put themselves in danger or wishing for death..and facts behind that "Mindset"...I would think that this possibility would be so remote..that it would be improbable... using Expert Phychologist/Psychiatrists..Lana..was a lady..and if she wanted to kill herself.it would not be in this way!!

Quoting self inflicted gunshot wounds..okay..well, then use those numbers to equate the enviornment done...i.e. alone/in company/in stranger company/ etc.....The percentage would drop like a stone..to .0001 %...Just a thought..and hope prosecution persuits that avenue!!

LMS:read:

[GPSpector]

who knows....maybe the DNA is Lana's blood. he may have touched himself after getting all the blood all over him. maybe his privates needed to be adjusted after the let down from killing her. he knew he wont get any after that.

That's kind of what I was thinking since every time the Defense wanted to imply something that showed Lana's participation, they always seemed to refer to her DNA as proof. And every time, it's discovered that the DNA turns out to be her Blood, not her fingerprint or other body fluids that they seem to imply.

I guess we will see if they take the same approach this time. I sure hope not because it really does not help the Defense to do that.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Respectfully snipped...

Could PS have transferred Lana's DNA through the pockets of his pants, do you think, when he put his bloody hands in them?

Woulda..Coulda...Shoulda...Who knows?..But it is suffice to say that Lana didnt put it there on her own accord!! JMOO of course..and no way would she shoot herself either!! It is obvious to me..but others just want to assume Lana wished to end her life with a "stranger..who meant nothing to her..who harrassed her into coming back to his castle..Yikes...IF nothing else...any women should run to the hills if anyone has to force his will on you...( coming back..going with him..keeping his company)..IF any man begs/conjoles like that..should big a huge RED FLAG!!

LMS:cuss:

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Not all suicidal people want privacy when they commit suicide. A tv anchor committed suicide during a live broadcast. Apparently some suicide victims need an audience:

"Christine Chubbuck[1] (August 24, 1944 – July 15, 1974) was an American television news reporter who committed suicide during a live television broadcast.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Chubbuck

MHO

Rediculous to compare that suffering..depressed.known suicidal person to Lana....Rediculous!!..My point was Those that chose suicide usually ( high percentage chose privacy)..then you get NUTBARS..with history!!..who chose to do it front of GOD AND EVERYBODY!!.I think if you read the history of this person..it speaks to MY POINT!!!

LMS:no:

[GPSpector]

Nit Pic all you want...I would just guess that Lana's DNA got there when Phill scratched himself..or when he relieved himself..he must of had blood on his hands...not completely washed from his hands with that wet diaper..
I would venture to say..there was NOTHING other than Lana's blood around...and given her wound..it didnt get spread around by anyone other than Phil...I dont believe there was any Sexual fluids found that belonged to Lana...or Phil's fluid on Lana..It is sick to think that Lana would "Chuck it all"..on account of this "Has been"..Sorry Gary..but Lana didnt even know your dad..let alone want to end her life in his presence??..I find that most Suicidal people either do it in privacy..or murder then do themselves in...Certainly not the scenerio Defense wishes to make look probable!!

LMS:seeya:


No apology needed.

some NG poster last year, sent me quite a few cases of women that committed suicide as a way to prove that women do commit suicide (which I already knew women have done). Of all the cases (about 8 names), I did research on each and every one and there was only 1 case of a lady that shot herself in the face that had a career that depended on her face. The problem was, this lady was great looking when she was younger but she committed suicide in her 80's and this happened in the 1930's or late 20's.

My point is that if Lana committed suicide by shooting herself in the face, she would probably be the 1st lady that was still young enough and still pretty enough to promote her face to commit suicide.

Being the 1st says a lot about the odds of probability. :read:

[GPSpector]

Respectfully snipped...

Could PS have transferred Lana's DNA through the pockets of his pants, do you think, when he put his bloody hands in them?

Yes, it's possible if the form of DNA was her blood but he would have had to have fresh blood and not minute traces. He would have had quite a bit on his hand to have it soak through. ind of like the amount AD claimed he saw and to get that much, my father had to have his hands within inches of her face.

The problem with that is that this possible scenario goes against the Defense's argument and all the NG posters.

[True2Blues]

Not to be a nit-picker, but did they ever state what type of DNA was found on him? I only ask this because during that last trial (which the poster you were responding to, seems to prefer to talk about), it was stated by the Defense Team (many times) that Lana's DNA was on the bullets, which we all know was very misleading information meant to imply that she loaded the gun when in fact, it was Lana's blood.


Not nitpicky at all. I believe that all of the DNA found in this area, was traces. Something anyone could pick up on their hands sitting at a restaurant table, touching a counter near a cash register that others had touched etc. They could tell maybe gender, but IIRC none of it was anything that the person who testified about it would have considered from direct contact.

One of those things like Lana and the bullets, a lot was suggested as the reason for it's presence, but it didn't actually come to that.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Yes, it's possible if the form of DNA was her blood but he would have had to have fresh blood and not minute traces. He would have had quite a bit on his hand to have it soak through. ind of like the amount AD claimed he saw and to get that much, my father had to have his hands within inches of her face.

The problem with that is that this possible scenario goes against the Defense's argument and all the NG posters.

Gary, you are so reasonable..and have done your homework..and you see all sides of this horrendous death...I feel very good that you can sleep well knowing you have remained fair throughout this whole nightmare since day 1..bless you..and someone did a great job in raising you to be fair..and reasonable..(rather doubt it was your papa..)

In my opinion..you are a peach..and I truly respect your thoughts and feelings about this!!

LMS:)

[True2Blues]

That's kind of what I was thinking since every time the Defense wanted to imply something that showed Lana's participation, they always seemed to refer to her DNA as proof. And every time, it's discovered that the DNA turns out to be her Blood, not her fingerprint or other body fluids that they seem to imply.

I guess we will see if they take the same approach this time. I sure hope not because it really does not help the Defense to do that.

From what little I've seen, it sounds like they're heading down that same path.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

A psychological autopsy on Lana Clarkson wasn't performed...so I don't think any of can say for certain what she would or would not do!

I am sure a high percentage choose privacy, but there are a small number who choose to kill themselves in front of others. Just because a majoriity choose privacy, it doesn't follw that others do not. What it boils down to is: Lana may be in the small majority who don't commit sucide in privacy.

I don't think she went to his home to kill herself. If she committed suicide, as the defense contends, it was spontaneous--a sudden impulse.


MHO


The numbers of females killing themselves in not only this circumstance
or any public situations is so sooo so low...you cannot give that theory much probabilty at all..let alone possible???!!!!....You speak of small majority..you mean minority..actually, statically it isnt even a number....there has never been a women under the age of 80 who shot themselves in the face in public that lacked psychiatiric history..or attempts in the past..Yes..I truly hope that the prosecution brings on those historical facts!!!

Suicide in this case is not probable..much less likely!!

LMS:no:

[True2Blues]

Rediculous to compare that suffering..depressed.known suicidal person to Lana....Rediculous!!..My point was Those that chose suicide usually ( high percentage chose privacy)..then you get NUTBARS..with history!!..who chose to do it front of GOD AND EVERYBODY!!.I think if you read the history of this person..it speaks to MY POINT!!!

LMS:no:

It is ridiculous, since there is no evidence that Lana was severely depressed or suicidal.

[stown]

Rediculous to compare that suffering..depressed.known suicidal person to Lana....Rediculous!!..My point was Those that chose suicide usually ( high percentage chose privacy)..then you get NUTBARS..with history!!..who chose to do it front of GOD AND EVERYBODY!!.I think if you read the history of this person..it speaks to MY POINT!!!

LMS:no:

I so agree. This is a major stretch. If I thought there was a possibility that Lana Clarkson commited suicide, which I don't believe for a second, this would surely NOT be the case I would use to prove my point!

Christine Chubbuck was by all accounts I have read, severely depressed, to the point of probably being quite mentally ill.

There is no indication that Lana Clarkson was any more depressed than any of us, living day to day in a life that is not always easy.

Where MOST suicides by gun are accomplished privately, we have a very very few that are purposely public. Like two. This one, and Budd Dwyer.

There is no comparison. But good try.

Edited to add:
If things are as the defense will have us believe, Phil wasn't even in the room. So who was the supposed "audience" she was performing for?

[GPSpector]

Gary, you are so reasonable..and have done your homework..and you see all sides of this horrendous death...I feel very good that you can sleep well knowing you have remained fair throughout this whole nightmare since day 1..bless you..and someone did a great job in raising you to be fair..and reasonable..(rather doubt it was your papa..)

In my opinion..you are a peach..and I truly respect your thoughts and feelings about this!!

LMS:)

I really wish I could give some credit to my father but who influenced me the most to stay honest and true was George C. Brand. He was our live in Guardian and our friend and I also give credit to our neighbor as well as my Sr Army Instructor in Jr. ROTC. Sad to say, they have all passed away :( but will never be forgotten. :rose:

[GPSpector]

No No.. Moving papers are the Motions filed, and I did post the links on the links thread.

Ah, thank you. I was worried that my father was making a huge mistake and was worried about that.:)

[stown]

The defense contends it was a suicide. I think it could be a suicide...or that she shot herself accidently during gun play.
MHO
I have seen you refer to this "gun play" theory going back the the first trial. What is "gun play" Is this some kind of sexual thing I have never heard of?

I mean this seriously, and I am not trying to pull your chain, but what the heck is "gun play"

Most people realize that a loaded gun is not something to be played with. Is there some kind of underground cult of "gun play" sexual deviants that I am not aware of, kind of like those people that choke themselves almost to death for sexual pleasure?

I would think that anyone that thought playing with a loaded gun is sexy, would be a pretty sick individual.

Is this what you think was going on here?

[wasapi]

No No.. Moving papers are the Motions filed, and I did post the links on the links thread.

I was unable to get any of the links you posted today to work.

[roytoy]

[COLOR="Blue"]Even in death, Lana Clarkson was a beautiful woman. As horrible as those photos of her in that chair are, it is still obvious how lovely she was in life.

What possible difference does it make if the photos were "retouched", which they wouldn't have been if they were proofs?




thanks for reminding me about the proofs. i remember her mother testified that lana had selected the photo from the shoot and ordered the prints-200, iirc and the prints were not ready until after she was murdered.

a suicidal person in "depressions" does not sit for a photo shoot, pick a head shot and order prints unless they plan on using them.

[stown]

I was unable to get any of the links you posted today to work.


I had the same problem.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

I don't know if it is probable or improbable in Lana Clarkson's case. There'd need to be a psychological autopsy performed on Lana to judge the probablites.

I pointed out that just because it is a small number it doesn't follow that she didn't commit suicide in front of Phil. She could be in the the minority who don't choose privacy. No matter how low it is, there is that low number that don't choose privacy to kill themselves.

The defense contends it was a suicide. I think it could be a suicide...or that she shot herself accidently during gun play.

My neighbor's daughter never had suicide attempts in the past before she committed suicide. Same with a relative of mine. Nobody saw it coming.

The jacket forensics tell me that he did not kill Lana. And if he didn't kill her as the jacket forensic's attest to, then she shot herself.


MHO


1) What the hey is "Jacket Forensics"???
2)Your neighbours daughter committed suicide..(So Sorry for your experience.).but does give incite to your views..and did she do this awful thing in some stranger's presence with their weapon??
3) Defense can contend all they want..but IF NOT FOR PHIL's GUN..nothing would have happened!
4)That small number you spoke of is really for all purposes NON-aplicable in this scenerio...

Bottom line is that given the scene..the timeline..the gun..given Phil with that bloody gun in his hand..given Phil's history of holding guests hostage with guns...given Lana, who knew him for a few hours..never in his house (Castle)??...It is not reasonable doubt that Phil never did this thing..and we must remember that he is not charged with 1st Degree Murder..but 2nd Degree...which fits this crime!!!

LMShammer

[roytoy]

you have absolutely no proof of that and are insinuating something about a crime victim. low.

[Anakerie]

No No.. Moving papers are the Motions filed, and I did post the links on the links thread.
Maybe it's just me or my computer, but none of those links you posted on the links thread work. I get a "Page cannot be found" error message.

[Anakerie]

It is the defense's contention Lana killed herself accidently during gun play...and Judge Fidler didn't object to it. Low? Is Judge Fidler low for allowing it? He allowed it as a defense in the first trial. Accidental gun play suicide will be the defense's contention in the retrial.

It is not proven she is a victim of murder; thus, she is not a crime victim of murder. She could have killed herself.

mho
:confused: "Accidental gun play suicide" makes NO sense. geezzzzzzzzz

[True2Blues]

:confused: "Accidental gun play suicide" makes NO sense. geezzzzzzzzz


It's not supposed to make sense, it's supposed sound sleazy and dirty.

[GPSpector]

In reference to ticket 111:

Great, I really think Dan10 is amongst us.

It was stated during the last trial by a real expert that the only way for the Back Spatter to get on the jacket was if the jacket was within 2' of the blast when it occurred.

I have no problem with entertaining all these "possibles" and "what-ifs" but ONLY if they come with facts from the case to back them up or you're just spouting fantasy cases.

when new evidence is presented, as always, I will re-evaluate what I think may have happened an see if it fills in any of the holes.

I am willing to go to either side based on the evidence but when the Defense starts with supporting "Probable Suicide", they are already starting behind the 8-Ball. The Defense needs facts just as much as the Prosecution. Of course, all they need is just enough facts to raise doubt, not solve the case, that's what the Prosecution needs to do or at least convince the Jury they have.

[Anakerie]

I can't get your court links to work. Is it just me? Sometime these things don't work and you go back later and they're fine. Everyone else able to see them?
It's not just you. So far as I can tell, no one has been able to open those links.

[Anakerie]

It's not supposed to make sense, it's supposed sound sleazy and dirty.
I think you're right. But somewhere along the line she forgot to add her favorite description of the "gun play"; "kinky"... :rolleyes:

[True2Blues]

Jacket forensics:


The evidence points more to Lana shooting herself than Phil shooting her. The jacket forensics and void on her dress tell the story of what happened.

There was a void on her dress where no blood sprayed, which means if he was straddling her, his sleeve would have intercepted it. His sleeve was pristine. The blood on the backside of the arm of the jacket, tells me he had his arm across his face when the gun went off. He probably walked in the room when the gun went off and in an excited defensive gesture, he put his arm across his face and had turned to the side a little and his jacket caught the blood on the backside.

There was also what was described as a fingernail chip on her chest. Her fingernail had a chip in it, which I believe broke off when she fired the gun.

The prosecution has it's theory for the void and pristine jacket, and the defense has their theory. It's a matter of whose theory we accept. I accept the defense's. It is common sense.

Lana had a high alcohol content in her system, and she was on medications. Despressions can strike suddenly without warning. With all that alcholol and meds in her system, she could have shot herself accidently during gun play. Or as the defense contends she committed suicide.

The can be sudden depressions and spontaneous remissions. It can turn into a vicious circle.

I don't think she went to his house to commit suicide. . If it was suicide, as the defense contends, it was a sudden impulse brought on by a sudden overwhelming depression. There is evicence in her emails that she had depressions.

Depression and spontaneous remission link to:

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/July06/Levine01.htm

mho

That link is about a corrupt test of anti-depressants by doctors who had a stake in the companies making the drugs. It has nothing to do with depression. I guess you're just taken with that phrase, since it's the second time you've posted it.

Depression does not just appear from nowhere, it develops over a period of time.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

It is the defense's contention Lana killed herself accidently during gun play...and Judge Fidler didn't object to it. Low? Is Judge Fidler low for allowing it? He allowed it as a defense in the first trial. Accidental gun play suicide will be the defense's contention in the retrial.

It is not proven she is a victim of murder; thus, she is not a crime victim of murder. She could have killed herself.

mho

Keep the faith..even tho the evidence and circumstances... plus the history of the defendent dont back that up...most Defense teams throw what they can against the wall and hope something sticks...so given your viewpoint..you wish to be on the least likely plausible likely circumstances..this hoping and praying that 12 people (jury) are of your "Mindset"...it is your right to play in that " Field"..it's just fellow playmates may not play by the same rules..or view points..LOL..its like playing with one arm behind your back...you may get in a punch.but the fight will get lost in the end..LOL

LMS:D

[Anakerie]

Tell it to Judge Fidler!

MHO
When did Judge Fidler describe the case as being "accidental gun play suicide? Or "kinky"?

[Lyndawitha"Y]

When did Judge Fidler describe the case as being "accidental gun play suicide? Or "kinky"?

Plain and simple..Judge Fidler will allow any defense along as th defense allege it. I dont think I have ever heard of any judge negating any defense???As long as they profess innocents..Yikes...Confessed killers..shooters..slashers..profess alot of things...No judge will preclude them from presenting any defense!!!!

LMShammer

[True2Blues]

Tell it to Judge Fidler!

MHO

So you keep saying. I must have missed an article somewhere, because despite reading everything I can get my hands on, I haven't seen anything that quotes DW as saying that "Kinky Gun Play" was what happened.

[True2Blues]

Tell it to Judge Fidler! Is he "low?"

It's the defenses contention that Lana committed accidental suicide during gun play. It will be Phil's defense in the retrial.

MHO

No, he has to allow PS and his lawyers any defense they wish to present. It is DW and PS who would be responsible for making that claim, not Judge Fidler. He has no choice but to allow it.

The correct question would be Are PS and DW "Low"?

The answer is, I don't think there's a low that's low enough for PS, after listening to him and his last defense team. As for DW, since his other current clients were charged with child pornography and child molestation respectively, I'd say he's got a tolerance for great depths himself.

[GPSpector]

Way off topic but



H A P P Y
H A L L O W E E N
☻

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Way off topic but



H A P P Y
H A L L O W E E N
☻


RIGHT BACK AT YOU...AND MANY MORE... HAPPY Halloween!!..LOL

HOPE YOU VOTE come Tuesday..and as for your dadhe seems to be in the netherland..LOL..but thats only me...YOU on the other hand live in the reeee...ALLL..WORLD!!!//Bless ya!!

LMS

[kennedy06]

About the links that wouldn't open such as for the motion on Diane O., if it helps any this link works for me. JMO

http://www.lasuperiorcourt.org/courtnews/ui/HPDocumentList.aspx?title=People+vs.+Phillip+Spect or&casenum=BA255233&date=2005-10-21%2010:27:06



Happy Halloween!