Michelle Young..Oct.4th.'til

[5swab5]

Please continue.

I hope things speed up!

Swabby

[Cardinal]

Cardinal,
Any thoughts on the wrongful death deadline that is fast approaching ?
Linda will need 'legal standing' before she can file.
I suppose she can sue JY for that 'standing' and file the WD in the same motion.

I don't know if it could be done in the same motion, Maddox, but it could be done sequentially if all of the paperwork were in order. The time frame is getting pretty tight though.

Something else occurs to me - the statute of limitations for Cassidy to file doesn't start running until she turns 18, I believe.

JMO

[gbmy]

I don't know if it could be done in the same motion, Maddox, but it could be done sequentially if all of the paperwork were in order. The time frame is getting pretty tight though.

Something else occurs to me - the statute of limitations for Cassidy to file doesn't start running until she turns 18, I believe.

JMO

We have no new information to suggest that things are going to change here.......Coming up on 2 years now. We could hit 3. Then 4. And then 5. And if we do, all of the JDI's will still be taking the same position they are now using the same old rationale........Ya gotta make sure your case is iron clad. Dot the i's, cross the t's. Don't rush to judgement. All true. But at some point, when you hear that over and over again, it just loses a little meaning each and every day.

Yeah, some murders have taken 10+ years to solve. And, if this board is open 8 more years, the JDI's will be saying the same thing....

[Cardinal]

We have no new information to suggest that things are going to change here.......Coming up on 2 years now. We could hit 3. Then 4. And then 5. And if we do, all of the JDI's will still be taking the same position they are now using the same old rationale........Ya gotta make sure your case is iron clad. Dot the i's, cross the t's. Don't rush to judgement. All true. But at some point, when you hear that over and over again, it just loses a little meaning each and every day.

Yeah, some murders have taken 10+ years to solve. And, if this board is open 8 more years, the JDI's will be saying the same thing....


So what if they are? The length of time it takes doesn't make the JDIs wrong or the JIIs right, imo. I'm sorry if it's losing meaning for you. If I'm still alive, and it takes 10 more years, I'll still be waiting for justice for Michelle and Rylan.

[5swab5]

We have no new information to suggest that things are going to change here.......Coming up on 2 years now. We could hit 3. Then 4. And then 5. And if we do, all of the JDI's will still be taking the same position they are now using the same old rationale........Ya gotta make sure your case is iron clad. Dot the i's, cross the t's. Don't rush to judgement. All true. But at some point, when you hear that over and over again, it just loses a little meaning each and every day.

Yeah, some murders have taken 10+ years to solve. And, if this board is open 8 more years, the JDI's will be saying the same thing....

I think the same could be said of the JI²s.

MOO

Swabby

[Barbara2]

We have no new information to suggest that things are going to change here.......Coming up on 2 years now. We could hit 3. Then 4. And then 5. And if we do, all of the JDI's will still be taking the same position they are now using the same old rationale........Ya gotta make sure your case is iron clad. Dot the i's, cross the t's. Don't rush to judgement. All true. But at some point, when you hear that over and over again, it just loses a little meaning each and every day.

Yeah, some murders have taken 10+ years to solve. And, if this board is open 8 more years, the JDI's will be saying the same thing....

So are you trying to suggest that the investigators should give up? Do you WANT Michelle and Rylan's murderer to go free? Serious question.

[annalyzer]

So what if they are? The length of time it takes doesn't make the JDIs wrong or the JIIs right, imo. I'm sorry if it's losing meaning for you. If I'm still alive, and it takes 10 more years, I'll still be waiting for justice for Michelle and Rylan.

Same here Cardinal but please Lord let it be sooner.

[5swab5]

And your point is :shrug:

The cops and Wake county DA knew Ann Miller poisoned her husband Eric , but it took 4 years for this same DA to move on the indictment.

That was a travesty!

The worst part of the DA dragging his feet, was the child. False hopes and dreams after already losing one parent.

I see the same thing in Cassidy's future, unfortunately.

MOO

Swabby

[annalyzer]

Off to google Ann Miller..........:read:

[Cardinal]

Same here Cardinal but please Lord let it be sooner.

Amen.



o/t I see what you mean about too many letters. :)

[annalyzer]

In the end, the DA had far from a slam dunk case, yet she plead guilty on a deal to 2nd degree murder.

Pull the trigger Colin, Linda needs to be in CY's life again.


What a wicked witch. Was it ever found out when and how she gave him the poison?

I see the grandparent's are refusing to let their granddaughter visit her mother in prison. Good!

[Barbara2]

Who knows, maybe the size 10 shoes belonged to an accomplice of JY ?

I have thought of that possibility too, but I think it would be an accomplice after the fact. It's possible that he had to call on a trusted family member or friend to help with the aftermath so that he could get back to Virginia.

[Jules2]

Probably but do they have anything better to do? Doubtful. So far, those who have steadfastly held to their view that Jason is innocent are the ones who seem to be right. Those who have invested years spreading the *Jason and only Jason did it* mantra have accomplished nothing of value. The considerable passage of time and inability for LE to solve this crime is an indication the answer isn't *Jason and only Jason did it.*

Murders that have taken years to solve have usually involved co-conspiracies.


The ones who seem to be right? :lol:

Excuse me, but there has been plenty posted by the JDI's that is valuable, truthful and extremely logical. In fact most of the far-fetched posts have been those of the JII's.

Perhaps you were dreaming when you posted. That's okay, though.......You'll get a wake up call soon enough.


IMO

[5swab5]

(snipped)Murders that have taken years to solve have usually involved co-conspiracies.

Got a linky-poo for that?

Otherwise it is just drivel.

MOO

Swabby

[5swab5]

Doubtful, if JY was also there himself. He didn't need an accomplice.

How can Jason "also" be there himself.......without an accomplice?

MOO

Swabby

[annalyzer]

How can Jason "also" be there himself.......without an accomplice?

MOO

Swabby


In addition to the ones known to be there, Michelle and Cassidy?

[gbmy]

So what if they are? The length of time it takes doesn't make the JDIs wrong or the JIIs right, imo. I'm sorry if it's losing meaning for you. If I'm still alive, and it takes 10 more years, I'll still be waiting for justice for Michelle and Rylan.
I agree with you that justice is what's important. What's also important to me is to feel compassion and empathy for a free man with no criminal record who has lost his 29 year old wife to a tragic murder and is raising a daughter who suddenly found herself without a mother whom she loved.

This is why I defend JY and seek justice for Michelle. I don't know the truth, but it will eventually come out. It sounds like you're of the opinion that if 5, 10, 15, or 20 more years go by that it's just as likely as it is today that JY murdered his wife assuming no new information. I don't share that opinion.

[gbmy]

So are you trying to suggest that the investigators should give up? Do you WANT Michelle and Rylan's murderer to go free? Serious question.

The answer is clearly no to both questions. My hope is to solicit compassion for a free man and single parent with no criminal record who tragically lost his wife in a senseless murder.

[Barbara2]

The answer is clearly no to both questions. My hope is to solicit compassion for a free man and single parent with no criminal record who tragically lost his wife in a senseless murder.

Being free and having no record does not equate innocence. There are plenty of murderers with no priors.

[Jules2]

sorry but there is nothing remotely logical or even intelligent about a theory that has Jason as a lone killer who changed shoes and stepped on a pillow twice.


It's more logical than 99% of the theories you've gone on and on about.

I see you are back to posting as your usual self. I see the initial "niceness" and non-insulting posts to disguise your identity didn't last very long.

I can hardly keep up with placing all your nics on ignore these days.

:shrug:

[Barbara2]

It's more logical than 99% of the theories you've gone on and on about.

I see you are back to posting as your usual self. I see the initial "niceness" and non-insulting posts to disguise your identity didn't last very long.

I can hardly keep up with placing all your nics on ignore these days.

:shrug:

It's pretty easy. You don't have to put the nics on ignore. You just don't pay any attention to her. It works. :)

[gbmy]

Being free and having no record does not equate innocence. There are plenty of murderers with no priors.

Ok Barbara2, let me try again using different verbage. It's a fact that JY's legally innocent. It's a fact that he's a single parent who has lost his wife in a tragic murder. And, it's a fact that I personally have compassion for such a person.

[Barbara2]

Ok Barbara2, let me try again using different verbage. It's a fact that JY's legally innocent. It's a fact that he's a single parent who has lost his wife in a tragic murder. And, it's a fact that I personally have compassion for such a person.

Did you also have compassion for OJ Simpson when he was in a similar situation?

[gbmy]

Did you also have compassion for OJ Simpson when he was in a similar situation?
I absolutely did. And, so did the 12 jurors. But today I don't have much compassion for him since he was found to have commited an armed robbery and faces up to life in prison.

[Barbara2]

I absolutely did. And, so did the 12 jurors. But today I don't have much compassion for him since he was found to have commited an armed robbery and faces up to life in prison.

Being found "not guilty" is not the same as being found "innocent". Not being charged with a crime is not the same as being innocent either. Someone killed Michelle and Rylan and that person has not been charged. That person is still just as guilty as they will be when the verdict is read. IMO

[sonya]

I suggest you provide a link to the theories I've "gone on and on about."

I use one and only one nic here. I've noticed you have a bad habit of resorting to baseless insults and accusations at anybody and everybody who disagrees with you. Very tacky and certainly reflects your lack of maturity.

Can you possibly post without that nastiness in your comments? The majority of posters here want to discuss this case, and you seem to be here just to insult posters and basically, pick a fight. Thank you

[sonya]

sorry but there is nothing remotely logical or even intelligent about a theory that has Jason as a lone killer who changed shoes and stepped on a pillow twice. :lol::lol::lol:

Everyone here is entitled to their opinion, about the murder case that is. I don't recall there being a free pass to insult fellow posters by calling them unintelligent or illogical and you continue to do that with nearly every one of your posts. Very rude and immature...

[sonya]

Originally Posted by sonya View Post

A well placed kick could have stopped the strangulation attempt, easily

************************
gbmy answered:
Sure, you're right, it 'could' have.

************************

Yes, that's right it could have stopped Jason from strangling Michelle and it probably did !

[Barbara2]

Originally Posted by sonya View Post

A well placed kick could have stopped the strangulation attempt, easily

************************
gbmy answered:
Sure, you're right, it 'could' have.

************************

Yes, that's right it could have stopped Jason from strangling Michelle and it probably did !

I don't think some realize how difficult it must be for a person to look into the eyes of a human being and strangle the life out of them. It is even more difficult if the person is one that you are supposed to love. If that person resists at all, I imagine it would be tough to continue. Much easier to beat them from behind without having to look at their face. IMO

[annalyzer]

I absolutely did. And, so did the 12 jurors. But today I don't have much compassion for him since he was found to have commited an armed robbery and faces up to life in prison.


Are you saying you had compassion for OJ because he wasn't found guilty of the murders but now don't have compassion since he was found guilty of armed robbery?

[gbmy]

Being found "not guilty" is not the same as being found "innocent". Not being charged with a crime is not the same as being innocent either. Someone killed Michelle and Rylan and that person has not been charged. That person is still just as guilty as they will be when the verdict is read. IMO
Let me make sure I understand your points.

1. If you're found not guilty, it's 'possible' you really could be guilty.
2. If you're found guilty, it's 'possible' you really could be innocent.

and, from the moment the crime is commited to any point in time in the future, you're just as guilty or innocent.

If conveying this point was the intent of your post, I'll let others comment on its value. I'll just say 'I understand'.

[gbmy]

Are you saying you had compassion for OJ because he wasn't found guilty of the murders but now don't have compassion since he was found guilty of armed robbery?

Yes. I have more compassion for innocent, law abiding citizens than for people who are justice system determines broke the law.

[Barbara2]

Let me make sure I understand your points.

1. If you're found not guilty, it's 'possible' you really could be guilty.
2. If you're found guilty, it's 'possible' you really could be innocent.

and, from the moment the crime is commited to any point in time in the future, you're just as guilty or innocent.

If conveying this point was the intent of your post, I'll let others comment on its value. I'll just say 'I understand'.

No. My point is that someone is guilty. Someone killed a beautiful woman and her baby. That person doesn't have to have a jury declare them guilty. That person was guilty from the moment the crime was committed. Many believe based on the little known evidence that that person guilty of killing Michelle may well be her husband. If he did kill her, not having been brought before the courts doesn't make him any less guilty of the crime. That was my point.

[annalyzer]

Yes. I have more compassion for innocent, law abiding citizens than for people who are justice system determines broke the law.


Uh, just because that jury found OJ not guilty does not mean he didn't murder Nicole and Ron.

[gbmy]

<snipped> Many believe based on the little known evidence that that person guilty of killing Michelle may well be her husband. If he did kill her, not having been brought before the courts doesn't make him any less guilty of the crime. That was my point. <snipped>
Knowing the infallible truth like God does, then of course that's true. But, we can only carry on a discussion as mere mortals. If someone is arrested for a crime and brought before the courts, then most mortals would believe that person is more likely to be guilty. If JY is arrested and brought before the court, then as a mortal, I'd believe he's more likely to be guilty. And, so would the DA. After, that's why they are waiting correct? They want to make sure they can be as close as possible to convicting 'beyond a reasonable doubt'.

[jerzeegirl]

No. My point is that someone is guilty. Someone killed a beautiful woman and her baby. That person doesn't have to have a jury declare them guilty. That person was guilty from the moment the crime was committed. Many believe based on the little known evidence that that person guilty of killing Michelle may well be her husband. If he did kill her, not having been brought before the courts doesn't make him any less guilty of the crime. That was my point.


wow barbara, i totally agree with your post here. So many here like to woo hoo and cheer each day that goes by that JY is not arrested. I understand, they think he is innocent but it seems they also think just the fact that he hasnt been arrested or named a person of interest or suspect, that he is innocent. So not true, so many cold cases in filing cabinets across this country, does that mean these murder victims werent murdered, because noone was arrested? Of course not.....someone is guilty, but they got away with it. So many people get away with murder and its truly disgusting.

I believe drew peterson killed his first and second wife. Im hoping some day he will be arrested, tried and convicted of both wives murders. Until then, hes walking around free as a bird. Does that mean he didnt do it? If he did, he got away with it twice, and some people here find it impossible that JY could get away with it once, so he must not be guilty.

Also find it interesting that Ann Miller was never named a person of interest nor a suspect.

JMO

[Barbara2]

Knowing the infallible truth like God does, then of course that's true. But, we can only carry on a discussion as mere mortals. If someone is arrested for a crime and brought before the courts, then most mortals would believe that person is more likely to be guilty. If JY is arrested and brought before the court, then as a mortal, I'd believe he's more likely to be guilty. And, so would the DA. After, that's why they are waiting correct? They want to make sure they can be as close as possible to convicting 'beyond a reasonable doubt'.

You lost me on that one. I thought you were the one arguing that just because a person was brought before the court didn't mean they are guilty. You seem to be arguing the opposite in that post.

I'm saying that the evidence will convict a person in a court of law but the guilt is there at the moment the crime is committed. Some people get away with it even though they are guilty but that does not make them innocent. That's my point.

[jerzeegirl]

Barbara2 is the one who says there is evidence to lead some to conclude Jason killed Michelle. I merely asked her what that evidence is since I'm not aware of it. I guess you're not aware of it either, huh?


we are not privy to all the info that LE has. Ive been following these cases on ctv/trutv since the SP case. Ive yet to see LE and DA as tight lipped as the ones in this case. No leaks, no nuttin. Just some SW's that LE has no control over their release to the public after time. I do believe if there was a mountain of evidence against him, he would be in jail right now but that doesnt mean that they dont have anything in those files, just not enough to make the DA feel that they could have a conviction BARD.

[gbmy]

Uh, just because that jury found OJ not guilty does not mean he didn't murder Nicole and Ron.
That's right. It simply means that a jury of 12 had reasonable doubt. Listen, based on the logic you and barbara2 are using, there will never be true, certain, 100% justice for Michelle. Because after all, only God will ever know 'for sure'. But, I suppose atheists would argue that point to.

If Michelle's murderer is arrested and a jury convicts, then I will see that as justice for Michelle and her loved ones. I will not shortchange that justice by continuing to plant seeds of mortal doubt which would only take away from the feeling of closure that MY's loved ones want so bad right now.

[gbmy]

You lost me on that one. I thought you were the one arguing that just because a person was brought before the court didn't mean they are guilty. You seem to be arguing the opposite in that post.

I'm saying that the evidence will convict a person in a court of law but the guilt is there at the moment the crime is committed. Some people get away with it even though they are guilty but that does not make them innocent. That's my point.
I understand and agree with your point. In fact, it's impossible for it to be false.

[jerzeegirl]

That's right. It simply means that a jury of 12 had reasonable doubt. Listen, based on the logic you and barbara2 are using, there will never be true, certain, 100% justice for Michelle. Because after all, only God will ever know 'for sure'. But, I suppose atheists would argue that point to.

If Michelle's murderer is arrested and a jury convicts, then I will see that as justice for Michelle and her loved ones. I will not shortchange that justice by continuing to plant seeds of mortal doubt which would only takes away from the feeling of closure that MY's loved ones want so bad right now.

i didnt read where barbara said anything about god, ill have to read back again. There certainly could be 100 percent justice for Michelle without any doubt, a confession from the murderer would do just fine.

[gbmy]

i didnt read where barbara said anything about god, ill have to read back again. There certainly could be 100 percent justice for Michelle without any doubt, a confession from the murderer would do just fine.
Oh, but the 'anything is possible' crowd could always argue that the confession was coerced. Or, perhaps blame psychological problems that render the confession 'not reliable'. Only one who is infallible would know for sure. You know anyone is?

[gbmy]

Yep, God DOES know for sure.
In the end, that is all that really matters imo.
Amen Maddox.

[jerzeegirl]

Oh, but the 'anything is possible' crowd could always argue that the confession was coerced. Or, perhaps blame psychological problems that render the confession 'not reliable'. Only one who is infallible would know for sure. You know anyone is?

Well then by all means, lets just open up all the gates at all the prisons and let everyone out. Noone is guilty i guess. If noone is caught and convicted of this murder, does that mean she did this to herself, or maybe this is some form of death by natural causes that we dont know about? Or its some rare disease that she picked up that noone has ever heard of?

The killer knows, maybe a confession will be our only hope, but at least theres hope.

Michelle knows, too bad she didnt survive the attack to put this horrible person behind bars forever.

[gbmy]

You seem to be the king of 'anything is possible' .

To the contrary, I lead with my beliefs and acknowledge that the opposing belief is possible. There are some people that operate in the reverse. As long as you state which it is, a good discussion can be had else it could just be a case of playing devil's advocate.

[Jules2]

I suggest you provide a link to the theories I've "gone on and on about."

I use one and only one nic here. I've noticed you have a bad habit of resorting to baseless insults and accusations at anybody and everybody who disagrees with you. Very tacky and certainly reflects your lack of maturity.


You might be using only one nic at a time, but you have been on these boards under many nics. When and where have I insulted you or anyone else here for that matter? Have I called any poster here a name such as the ones you just called me? Let's see......insulting, tacky and immature were the insults you just slung.


Pot/kettle

Nothing new.

*clicks on ignore button :beer:

[jerzeegirl]

GMAB. If noone is caught and convicted of this murder, it's because LE failed to do their job adequately. Convicting someone on emotion isn't giving justice to the victim or the accused.

I didnt convict anyone on emotion :shrug:

[gbmy]

Well then by all means, lets just open up all the gates at all the prisons and let everyone out. Noone is guilty i guess. If noone is caught and convicted of this murder, does that mean she did this to herself, or maybe this is some form of death by natural causes that we dont know about? Or its some rare disease that she picked up that noone has ever heard of?

The killer knows, maybe a confession will be our only hope, but at least theres hope.

Michelle knows, too bad she didnt survive the attack to put this horrible person behind bars forever.
I'm actually arguing the same point you are. When someone is arrested and convicted of a crime, then we declare them guilty and sentence them. Barbara2 said, and I quote, "Being found "not guilty" is not the same as being found "innocent". Is that literally true? Of course it is. But, it reaks of the "us mortals don't know anything for sure" mentality. And, it's that thinking that lends itself to the statement you made about just 'opening the gates and letting all of the prisoners out'. I'm with you 100%. Such a thing would be ludicrous.

JY is legally innocent. Only God knows for sure if he is truly innocent. But, if he's found guilty he should be locked up......Regardless of the devil's advocate mentality that says 'well, he might not have did it'. That type of thinking is what I'm taking a stand against.

[jerzeegirl]

I'm actually arguing the same point you are. When someone is arrested and convicted of a crime, then we declare them guilty and sentence them. Barbara2 said, and I quote, "Being found "not guilty" is not the same as being found "innocent". Is that literally true? Of course it is. But, it reaks of the "us mortals don't know anything for sure" mentality. And, it's that thinking that lends itself to the statement you made about just 'opening the gates and letting all of the prisoners out'. I'm with you 100%. Such a thing would be ludicrous.

JY is legally innocent. Only God knows for sure if he is truly innocent. But, if he's found guilty he should be locked up......Regardless of the devil's advocate mentality that says 'well, he might not have did it'. That type of thinking is what I'm taking a stand against.


Ok, i fully understand what you are saying now. We do agree. But what i was trying to say is that some people on this forum believe just because he hasnt been arrested and convicted, that alone makes him innocent. Not all, but some truly express that on this forum. I agree that he is "legally" innocent, everyone on this earth is legally innocent of Michelles murder as of now, but someone is still guilty of her murder. Basically, someone was guilty of her murder the second michelle drew her last breath.

[gbmy]

Ok, i fully understand what you are saying now. We do agree. <snipped>But what i was trying to say is that some people on this forum believe just because he hasnt been arrested and convicted, that alone makes him innocent. <snipped>
Ah, gotcha. Speaking for myself, another point I've made is, I believe that the longer we go without an arrest, the less likely he is to be guilty. Now, let me make another statement just to illustrate my 'literal' understanding of barbara2's point.

Speaking for God, JY is equally guilty or equally innocent regardless of how much time goes by. But, that's kind of a silly, philosophical point even though it's true. And, that is precisely why I spent so much time trying to bring the discussion back 'down to earth' since it is us earthly beings who are discussing it on this board..

[5swab5]

Ah, gotcha. Speaking for myself, another point I've made is, I believe that the longer we go without an arrest, the less likely he is to be guilty. (snipped)

That may be your belief or hope, but you are only fooling yourself.

MOO

Swabby

[gbmy]

That may be your belief or hope, but you are only fooling yourself.

MOO

Swabby
Sounds like your opinion differs which is fine. I'm interested in better understanding your opinion. Given that I'm fooling myself by believing (as a mortal, not someone divine who 'knows') that the longer we go without an arrest the more likely it is that JY is innocent, would I need to make the following statement in order to not 'fool myself'?

<beginning of statement (spoken by a mortal, not a divine, infallible source.....and assuming no new information)

"Even if there is still no arrest by the time JY is 35, 40, 50, 70, or 90 years old, the belief that he is guilty will be just as strong along this entire timeline as it is today almost 2 years after the murder."

<end of statement>

Is this your belief? If not, then we are in agreement. If it is, then our opinions of what's likely vs. not differ. All fair game with both deserving respect.

[annalyzer]

Can LE arrest Jason at any time or do they have to get an indictment first? If the latter what are the next grand jury dates? Is it possible Jason will be arrested before the second anniversary of his wife's murder?

[Barbara2]

Can LE arrest Jason at any time or do they have to get an indictment first? If the latter what are the next grand jury dates? Is it possible Jason will be arrested before the second anniversary of his wife's murder?

There are two more grand jury dates this month before the 2nd anniversary of Michelle's death. I think one is this coming Tuesday and the other is two weeks from this Tuesday.

[annalyzer]

There are two more grand jury dates this month before the 2nd anniversary of Michelle's death. I think one is this coming Tuesday and the other is two weeks from this Tuesday.


Thanks Barbara. I'm really hoping there is an arrest soon. LE last said to direct all questions to the DA. Does that mean they are done with their investigation?

[Barbara2]

Thanks Barbara. I'm really hoping there is an arrest soon. LE last said to direct all questions to the DA. Does that mean they are done with their investigation?

That's my guess. I'm sure if something else came across their desk they would investigate and turn it over to the DA but it sounded to me like they had investigated everything that was available to them.

[sonya]

There seems to be some game being played here where a select group of us are attacked with baseless insults and accusations and if we dare respond, we're accused of initiating the attack. :shrug:

You've described your "gameplay" to a T

[sonya]

The last SW we are aware of was almost 8 months ago. They looked for trace on the furniture , other than that I don't see anything they took that could be of any value. I see where some think the Grand jury will hand down an indictment before the 2 year mark. Why would LE or the DA wait until a few weeks before the 2 year mark if they had enought evidence for an arrest. Maybe they are waiting for the 2 year mark so LE can't benefit from Michelle's death. So much has been made about her suing Jason for the ins. money Maybe LE wants to assure she can't do it. That's assuming Jason is the person they arrest. Funny when some speculate that an arrest will be before summer is over or before the 2 year mark they never say who will be arrested.

If you meant Linda Fisher where you typed "LE", I can't begin to understand why on earth you would think Law Enforcement would stoop to such a low as to impede anyones right to sue for wrongful death.

[annalyzer]

When Jason is arrested, and I have no doubt he will be, what will happen to Michelle's LI? Can whoever is assigned her guardian use it to raise Cassidy and the rest be put in trust for her? If it is proven her husband murdered her is it going to still be payable if he was named the beneficiary?

[sonya]

snipped from gbmy post:
"the longer we go without an arrest the more likely it is that JY is innocent"

*************

that theory has been dispelled time and time again, plenty of murderers have gone free for years only to be convicted years and sometimes decades later.

[sonya]

I believe if you would read all posts you would see she was playing defence not offence. What do some feel its OK for the JDI to dish it out but they sure can't take it.

I have read enough of her posts to know exactly where she is coming from and what her agenda is. This dishing it out thing you're speaking of, I see it coming from only a couple posters, maybe actually only one and it is a constant part of her posts. Only thing I can figure about that is, that poster is a very unhappy person and really shouldn't be projecting it here.

[sonya]

I was shocked to see the New and Observer selling pictures of Michelle Young on coffee cups and on Christmas ornaments. Does anyone know who is behind this, who profits from these sales ?

http://gallery.pictopia.com/raleighno/photo/NAO-1204074/

[annalyzer]

I wonder if the LI has been earning interest the past two years and if there is a time limit on when it can be collected?

[annalyzer]

I was shocked to see the New and Observer selling pictures of Michelle Young on coffee cups and on Christmas ornaments. Does anyone know who is behind this, who profits from these sales ?

http://gallery.pictopia.com/raleighno/photo/NAO-1204074/

It looks to me like the newspaper itself but there is a "contact us" link at the bottom if you want to find out for sure. :shrug:

[bookie]

It looks to me like the newspaper itself but there is a "contact us" link at the bottom if you want to find out for sure. :shrug:


The answer is right there at the top. It's the N&O Store. The newspaper itself is selling the items.

[gbmy]

snipped from gbmy post:
"the longer we go without an arrest the more likely it is that JY is innocent"

*************

that theory has been dispelled time and time again, plenty of murderers have gone free for years only to be convicted years and sometimes decades later.
That's true. So, in this case, in the absence of new information, if we are having this discussion in 2030 (for example) are you saying your opinion of guilt or innocence will be the same as it is now?

[sonya]

my gameplan is to continue to discuss the case and express my opinion. If you can't handle it, engage the ignore feature.

*******
Nice try, but this is YOUR post I was responding to:
*******
Posted by reinya:
There seems to be some game being played here where a select group of us are attacked with baseless insults and accusations and if we dare respond, we're accused of initiating the attack.
__________________
JMO, fwiw
*******
When I said, your description of gameplaying suits YOU to a T

[BiggerRedDog]

It looks to me like the newspaper itself but there is a "contact us" link at the bottom if you want to find out for sure. :shrug:
Click on the "Buy Photo" button under most photos on the N & O website and it takes you to the same page, with whatever photo you chose. Somebody simply clicked on the "Buy Photo" button under Michelle's photo and posted the link.

[sonya]

Click on the "Buy Photo" button under most photos on the N & O website and it takes you to the same page, with whatever photo you chose. Somebody simply clicked on the "Buy Photo" button under Michelle's photo and posted the link.

Yes, that is how I came across it, but still wondering why on earth they are selling coffee mugs, ornaments etc. with her picture on them ?

[BiggerRedDog]

Yes, that is how I came across it, but still wondering why on earth they are selling coffee mugs, ornaments etc. with her picture on them ?It's tacky but it's just the way their website is set up, Sonya. I suppose the family could request the "Buy Photo" links, or all photos, be removed.

[Maddox]

I was shocked to see the New and Observer selling pictures of Michelle Young on coffee cups and on Christmas ornaments. Does anyone know who is behind this, who profits from these sales ?

http://gallery.pictopia.com/raleighno/photo/NAO-1204074/

It appears anyone can request a photo that was PUBLISHED by the N&O. They will then add the photo to the available gallery.

That photo of Michelle is probably the most unflattering I have seen.
It is really creepy when you see her killer's hand on her neck.

[annalyzer]

It appears anyone can request a photo that was PUBLISHED by the N&O. They will then add the photo to the available gallery.

That photo of Michelle is probably the most unflattering I have seen.
It is really creepy when you see her killer's hand on her neck.

Why does it say "banned" under your name? :confused:

[bookie]

Thanks, Sonya. Bizarre and tasteless. Sounds like a glitch in their system. Hopefully someone will rectify it.

MOO Aggie



It doesn't sound like a glitch at all. It sounds like they are trying to make money in a cheap, tasteless way.

[bookie]

Well, it should be rectified, don't you agree?

MOO Aggie



Cheap and taseless isn't against the law. If they own the copyright on that picture then they have the right to be sleazy and sell it on mugs.

[bookie]

Yuck. O/T is this board slow and sticky for you? I'm having problems. Very annoying !

I agree that it's yuck but it's life. We can't stop people from doing something that is legal.

Yes, the board is very slow especially when I refresh or try to go to other threads. Someone started a thread about it on the feedback forum and a post there said CW said it's the ads.

[annalyzer]

Cheap and taseless isn't against the law. If they own the copyright on that picture then they have the right to be sleazy and sell it on mugs.

When and where was that photo of Michelle taken for this newspaper to own the copyright on it?

[bookie]

When and where was that photo of Michelle taken for this newspaper to own the copyright on it?



They didn't have to take it to own the copyright on it. If someone sold them the picture then they would own the copyright.

[gbmy]

That's true. So, in this case, in the absence of new information, if we are having this discussion in 2030 (for example) are you saying your opinion of guilt or innocence will be the same as it is now?
Sonya, I don't recall seeing a reply and I'm interested in understanding your opinion.

[annalyzer]

It doesn't sound like a glitch at all. It sounds like they are trying to make money in a cheap, tasteless way.

They are only giving their customers the option of having a photo of their family, friends, pets, etc., that has been published in the paper, being put on a mug or ornament.

[Wyn]

Ah, gotcha. Speaking for myself, another point I've made is, I believe that the longer we go without an arrest, the less likely he is to be guilty. Now, let me make another statement just to illustrate my 'literal' understanding of barbara2's point.

Speaking for God, JY is equally guilty or equally innocent regardless of how much time goes by. But, that's kind of a silly, philosophical point even though it's true. And, that is precisely why I spent so much time trying to bring the discussion back 'down to earth' since it is us earthly beings who are discussing it on this board..


I don't presume to speak for GOD. Speaking for myself, based on what we "earthly beings" do know, I am fairly certain Jason is guilty. Time makes no difference in the truth, just your perception which is incorrect. Ann Miller, four years. David Temple, seven years. Just to name two which time neglected to make less guilty.

If you presume to speak for GOD again, remember these. Jason apparently didn't.

SIX: 'You shall not murder.'

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'

[Amy]

Where are you getting the information Michelle was healthy, fit athletic woman? Michelle had lost one baby and gotten pregnant with another within a years time. She hadn't been a cheerleader for years. Actually I think it was 6 years. I doubt very much she was what you describe.

OTOH, we don't know that she WASN'T a healthy, fit athletic woman. Losing one baby and getting pregnant again in a year's time does not mean that she physically went in the hopper. She might not have been a cheerleader for some years, but it is quite possible that she worked out, or that she walked, or any number of things to keep her fit.

[annalyzer]

snip~ As a former cheerleader, she would be very fit as an adult. A healthy, athletic lifestyle throughout childhood automatically translates into a healthy, fit, athletic adult life. Ask any healthy, fit, athletic female adult whether they sat around eating bonbons, or scooping peanut butter out of the bucket with a spoon, as a child if you need confirmation.

Hate to break it to ya but there are many fit adults who were chubby or fat as children. And vice versa. There are many fit children and teens, cheerleaders even, that end up fat and unfit as adults.

[annalyzer]

All very well. It's a good thing we have video of Michelle when Cassidy was 2 so we can see for ourselves that she was still fit, healthy, and athletic.


She looks fit and healthy to me. What is the argument about?

[annalyzer]

There is indisputable evidence that strangulation was attempted, and we know that was not the cause of death.

Is it your theory that only men shorter than the victim will have problems with successful strangulation? Do you really think that skinny Jason could strangle a healthy, fit, athletic woman without a little bit of a struggle?

Please enlighten us on the rules of successful strangulation.


Jason was also fit and healthy and much larger than Michelle. Stephen Grant had no problem strangling his wife Tara. I believe she also struggled to survive.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/download/2007/0413/11836907.pdf

[sonya]

Michelle quit cheer leading after her freshman year . That was 6 years before she was murdered not a couple. I am judging it on experience. My daughter lost a baby spring of 2007. She got pregnant again in Nov. of 2007. Baby was born this Aug. My daughter was very athletic ,played soft ball for the firemens team in town etc. but the lost of the baby and the carrying of another took its toll. She certainly doesn't have the muscles she did. I never said Michelle was sickly. I just don't think she was muscle bound. Look at the picture on the reward poster she had a sagging chin.

Oh please, she was 5'6" and 124 pounds, give it up

[sonya]

I'm sorry. Maybe you didn't know that on a message board, it's not like individual discussions between isolated people. That is the type of discussion that occurs in private messages. On the open forum, all comments are open for response by all people.

I respectfully suggest that, as a new poster, you take some time to familiarize yourself with the case, particularly with the evidence that is available.

I find it amazing that you manage to keep your cool with this troublesome poster, and despite her rudeness, you always seem to post politely.:beer:

[sonya]

I'm certain I don't know who you are and I'm also quite certain you don't know who I am so stop pretending that you do.

I am not pretending anything, your rude posts speak for themselves along with your incessant baiting and insulting the other posters.:D

[sonya]

I've very nicely asked repeatedly for the link to this evidence that Jason killed Michelle that you and Barbara2 both claim is available. I haven't seen it. I've thought that I've read up on this case but that stuff I guess I missed. Why won't you provide the link?

Obviously you haven't read up on this case enough or you would plainly see that for one thing all the search warrants are for Jason Young, his homes, cars, storages, relative homes and no one else. And, I won't elaborate further, you should really start reading up on this case, it's amazing ! :read::read:

[annalyzer]

Oh please, she was 5'6" and 124 pounds, give it up


And how tall is Meredith?

[annalyzer]

I've read search warrants for Michelle Money's computer, cells, etc, and a search warrant that's sealed so that makes you wrong to say all point to Jason and no one else. Still no evidence Jason killed Michelle. Search warrants aren't evidence, btw.

The sw's for MM's computer don't point to her though.

[annalyzer]

We discussed that the other day. I think people who have met her said about 5'2" with shoes.

So Michelle was 5'6" and Meredith was four or five inches shorter than her? I thought they looked near the same height in the video.

[Leanne Weich]

Not sure. June was saying that Michelle was too sickly, or weak, or something like that. I don't know why anyone would suggest that, nor what the point is. It may have something to do with the fact that Michelle was able to fight off the strangulation attempt. Yes, it's coming back to me. Michelle was indeed able to fight off the strangulation, which wouldn't surprise me since she was a fit, healthy, athletic 20 something.

Besides appearing to be in great shape, no doubt a huge adrenalin rush helped thwart the strangulation attack, imo.

[Kat4Eagles]

I find it amazing that you manage to keep your cool with this troublesome poster, and despite her rudeness, you always seem to post politely.:beer:


I don't agree, I find that poster to be very rude.

:no:

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

I thought they looked similar in the video as well, but it was hard to tell because Mededith was in the foreground, and Michelle was in the background. I think there must be other video around that would help answer the question. They clearly had different builds, so it would not be unusual that they had different heights.

Similiar in height and weight????

:confused:
Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Fit and healthy wasn't enough to save her life. Zed's theory seems to be that Jason was too weak compared to Michelle to complete the strangulation so he had to resort to repeatedly bludgeoning her head with an object. While it is possible Michelle may have temporarily interrupted a strangulation, there is no indication she did so with enough force to flee to another room, grab the phone or take a more defensive position. Whomever was too weak to strangle her also had to inflict numerous and repeated head blows to kill her. A weakling killer who wore a size 10 Franklin shoe.




This is one of the few posts from the last 5 days that I skimmed over this morning, that makes any sense.

This and ones made by Annalyzer and GBMY.

Well,........back to the plan again, that detailed and well thought out diabolical plan to kill Michelle, cash in the insurance policy, and walk away free to do nothing but troll the internet for the rest of his life. :rolleyes:

First, Jason is going to strangle Michelle and then if that does not work, he is going to buy smaller shoes years prior to the murder and keep them to make bogus shoe prints.

So he anticipated every little detail, that the strangulation would go wrong, and that it would turn into a bloodbath.!!!

Okay, and what jury on what planet is going to buy this ?

Oh, and here is another one.!!
Jason was stupid enough to get "caught" on the hotel video?

Ummm, No, he was "caught: exactly where he was supposed to be.

Had there been no video of him at the Hampton Inn on the nite in question, then he has a problem. Big problem, huge.

There are so many flaws to this perfect plan.!!

Could be why there is still no arrest, you think?

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Absolutely. She was gorgeous, and I loved her curly hair.

True, Michelle was gorgeous, but she wore her hair straight.
:(

Kat

[bookie]

I looked at the autopsy report this morning to confirm height and weight and there were some defensive wounds, so there had to have been some time between the attempted strangulation and Michelle being incapacitated.



How do you figure that? First off we don't know which came first but assuming the strangulation was first she could have gotten the defensive wounds while trying to fight off that attack. Defensive wounds don't indicate time between the 2.

[Kat4Eagles]

She is talking about Meredith, as Michelle was already deceased at the time of the Ladybug Liftoff.

IMO

Then there may be other pics unavailable to me , that fits the description that was made, sorry!!

I have never seen them, therefore I can not comment.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

That's a good question. I think Linda and Meredith organized the memorial a year ago. I wonder if anyone can check with them and find out if anything is planned. It would sure be a good thing to finally have a gravestone.

I don't think there's much of a chance that Jason will mark Michelle's grave. I seem to recall discussions about him not being able to afford a gravestone, but with all his travels with mom, that doesn't seem to be the issue. I wonder what is wrong with Jason that he has left her grave unmarked. It's similar to other men that murder their wives, but other than that, it makes no sense.


I think it would be nice to put Michelle's sister in charge of collecting for a trust fund or scholarship for C .

I think I remember reading something about that in the beginning.
Anyone else remember?
I know we lost early posts.

:confused:

Kat

[5swab5]

Enough about the shoe size.

A size 10 mens shoe fits a foot that is 10.69 inches long.
A size 12 mens shoe fits a foot that is 11.31 inches long.

http://shoes.about.com/od/fitcomfort/a/men_inches.htm

That means the difference in foot length is approximately .62 inches. That means that Jason's feet could be 11 inches long, and fit into either shoe, depending on the manufacturer. Check it on a ruler. It's a very small difference. We are talking about men's size 10 and men's size 12, so make no mistake and think that we can compare a women's size 10 with a men's size 12. (respectfully snipped)

Thank You Zed!

Excellent find. That certainly puts things in better perspective for the nay-sayers.

MOO

Swabby

[Kat4Eagles]

How do you figure that? First off we don't know which came first but assuming the strangulation was first she could have gotten the defensive wounds while trying to fight off that attack. Defensive wounds don't indicate time between the 2.



Morning, Bookie.

There is no way to know which came first...during........or after......

Wow, we are getting down there, less than 27 days to the 2 year mark, wow...

I wonder if this case could go into the IS cold case thread at that time.

We do have one set up.

Or, maybe a miracle will happen, a confession, or some new clues!!

Should be an exciting 27 days running out the clock.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Why don't you set up a trust fund for Cassidy while you're making sure the story stays in the news. How's that memorial coming along?



That would be something that Michelle's family or friends that post here could do, good idea.!!

I would love to see NCSU set up a Michelle Young cheerleading scholarship.

I don't believe in strangers interferring in someone's personal life or tragedy, or viewing autospy photos,(ewwwww) that kind of thing just crosses the line !!


Kat

[5swab5]

Oh please, she was 5'6" and 124 pounds, give it up

Oh Please is right!

Why let a little thing like the FACTS get in the way of a fantasy?

MOO

Swabby

[Kat4Eagles]

Thank You Zed!

Excellent find. That certainly puts things in better perspective for the nay-sayers.

MOO

Swabby


Not going to fly.

Why is it so hard to think there may have been 2 killers?

It is something I thought of way, way back..

Hmmm.

Kat

[5swab5]

(snipped)I don't believe in strangers interferring in someone's personal life or tragedy, or viewing autospy photos,(ewwwww) that kind of thing just crosses the line !!
Kat

But that kind of thing happens all the time with trial/crime watchers, nothing unusual or illegal about it.

Different watchers follow different avenues in their quests for the truth.

MOO

Swabby

[Kat4Eagles]

Though I agree with not interferring in someone's personal life or tragedy (or having complete strangers set up funds or memorials, etc.), I don't agree about viewing autopsy photos. To me, that is another piece of the puzzle which hasn't yet been solved. For those that can stomach it, go for it. Anything for more intelligent discussion on a case. It is directly related to the case, whereas some of the other stuff is not.

I agree , but can you imagine the pain it must have caused to have personal info leaked out here that did not have to be?
:no:
The official autopsy report was enough.

There should be a line between common decency when it comes to what victims and their families should have to endure from total strangers.

:(

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

But that kind of thing happens all the time with trial/crime watchers, nothing unusual or illegal about it.

Different watchers follow different avenues in their quests for the truth.

MOO

Swabby

I am sure it has happened, like that guy in the Ramsey case, John/ David Mark Karr,I think,(ewwwwwwwww) but I have never seen it before ,until I started posting here..

Very troubling.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

I am not so closed minded as to not be open to the possibility that there may have been two killers. However, I do not like how emphasis is given to the Franklin shoes over the Hushpuppies. To me, each print is of equal weight. If you can find who wore either, you may be able to answer the one versus two killer theory.


Absolutely, the thought of a re~enactment of the killer hopping around in 2 different sized shoes in the courtroom should be a bombshell moment.
:rolleyes:

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

No kidding. Do you think the police explored that possibility?



I have no idea what they explored and what they haven't, only that whatever they have done has produced no arrest in over 23 months.

Wow, I missed the 23 month mark.

:(

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

I suppose if you avoid the gruesome facts like the autopsy report, it's easier to make jokes about a brutal murder.


Who is joking?

The jokes about pics of Jason looking sinister and C in fear?
Those jokes about Jason trolling on the internet?

I must have missed them.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

ITA. I couldn't do it, but was glad it was done. I am glad there is someone out there gathering facts and info on the case for us to discuss.


You are not the only one, even Amanda Lamb who had to do it, as part of her job as a reporter, did not want to.!!

Can you imagine someone doing it willingly??

Hmmm,
Oh, and would they be qualified to testify as to their findings?

Thanxxx.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

ITA. Its not "real" to some of the posters here who have chosen to turn a blind eye to the harsh reality of Michelle's murder.




Again, who is joking?

I think everyone here wants to see this case solved.

Just cause I don't want to pretend I am an insider or mis~rep myself as to who I am, does not mean I don't care about Michelle or finding out who killed her.

But, I have never pretended to know her.

So, you think that someone pretending to be someone else by calling hotels or mis~repping themselves here as someone to get inside info, cares more than others?

:no:

Not true.

Hope this helps.


Kat

[5swab5]

You are not the only one, even Amanda Lamb who had to do it, as part of her job as a reporter, did not want to.!!

Can you imagine someone doing it willingly??

Hmmm,
Oh, and would they be qualified to testify as to their findings?

Thanxxx.

Kat

:shrug:
Why would they testify to their findings? Reporting what Amanda saw was part of her job, another viewer reported what he saw on a blog. No Court in either instance, thus no "testimony", not now, not ever...as to their opinions.

MOO

Swabby

[sonya]

How do you figure that? First off we don't know which came first but assuming the strangulation was first she could have gotten the defensive wounds while trying to fight off that attack. Defensive wounds don't indicate time between the 2.

Huh? The defensive wounds were on her hands, wrists and forearm I believe. I don't think she could have been being hit while the perp was strangling her, and her hands were on her own neck at that time trying to get his OFF ! She had scratches on her neck from her own nails. Her defensive wounds (on her hands, wrists and forearm) consisted of bruises, abrasions and some cuts, so it stands to reason they were caused by the same weapon her head wounds were caused by, hardly by fighting off the strangulation attempt. :rolleyes:

[sonya]

I don't agree, I find that poster to be very rude.

:no:

Kat

that's nice

[sonya]

I agree , but can you imagine the pain it must have caused to have personal info leaked out here that did not have to be?
:no:
The official autopsy report was enough.

There should be a line between common decency when it comes to what victims and their families should have to endure from total strangers.

:(

Kat

I disagree, RPD's blog defines just what happened to Michelle, and the anger/hate that is involved in those injuries. For people (like me) who would rather not view those photos, his assessment of them helped me greatly in understanding what happened that day and I am grateful to him for his report. You're right there is a line that total strangers should never cross when it comes to a case like this, that includes the bashing of the victims family (mother and sister) and rude innuendo about them as well.

[sonya]

Who is joking?

The jokes about pics of Jason looking sinister and C in fear?
Those jokes about Jason trolling on the internet?

I must have missed them.

Kat

That was no joke, he looks sinister as he77 in that picture and Cassidy looks scared to death. But you seem to be missing Zed's point, once again. Is that deliberate on your part or do you really not get it ? :shrug:

[annalyzer]

Thank You Zed!

Excellent find. That certainly puts things in better perspective for the nay-sayers.

MOO

Swabby

I don't think anyone ever said that Jason couldn't get his feet into a size 10 shoe.

[sonya]

You are not the only one, even Amanda Lamb who had to do it, as part of her job as a reporter, did not want to.!!

Can you imagine someone doing it willingly??

Hmmm,
Oh, and would they be qualified to testify as to their findings?

Thanxxx.

Kat

I believe that would be the medical examiner that would be called to testify, not RPD or Amanda Lamb. And yes the ME is qualified...:rolleyes:

[sonya]

Ok...I now remember vaguely seeing the autopsy report way back when, but I just reread the whole thing again.

I have just one thought. I can't say with 100% who did it, but I can say that if it was random, I will eat my shirt. There is no way that much brutality would be inflicted on a stranger. It was overkill indeed.

ITA, overkill.

[Kat4Eagles]

That was no joke, he looks sinister as he77 in that picture and Cassidy looks scared to death. But you seem to be missing Zed's point, once again. Is that deliberate on your part or do you really not get it ? :shrug:


I don't think Jason looks sinister at all.
And C looks tired or cranky.
Not at all scared.

Hope this helps.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

snipped from RPD's autopsy photo blog:

"The drawings you see on the report cannot come close to helping you truly understand the gravity of the vicious wounds."

"Another photo showed 3 perfectly formed teeth, with roots intact. In other words, these 3 teeth were totally knocked /ejected from Michelle’s gums, not just broken off."


At the end of 5 months:
* Baby is 8 to 10 inches long
* Weighs about 1 pound
* Hair begins to grow on his head
* Michelle begins to feel fetal movement
* Eyebrows, eyelids and eyelashes appear

http://autopsyphotos.blogspot.com/


Did you ask CW if you could post something from a banned poster?
Not sure of the rules.

:confused:

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

I don't think anyone ever said that Jason couldn't get his feet into a size 10 shoe.


But, why would he?

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

I believe that would be the medical examiner And yes the ME is qualified...:rolleyes:


You think?!!

Kat

[5swab5]

Did you ask CW if you could post something from a banned poster?
Not sure of the rules.

:confused:

Kat


Kat,

That is ridiculous, YOU brought up another poster viewing the autopsy photos! You started the conversation!

IF you don't like where it is going, then change the topic, but don't attack those that bring links here, to counter your disdain for a certain prior poster.

MOO

Swabby

[Kat4Eagles]

I will admit I called the hotel once (you remember I am sure) saying that I was coming in late and wondered about the hours of the fitness center and pool. I didn't do it to garner inside information, as I suspect many don't. I did it to try confirm or put to rest some of the theories that were being thrown around that day. That is all. Why discuss something that wasn't possible? From that phone call, I found out you have to use the keycard to enter the pool after 10 pm, so thoughts that Jason may have went for a swim could be discarded because his keycard wasn't used after his initial entrance to his room.

Not everything has to be sinister.



There is nothing wrong about being curious, I am sure if the crime happened near where someone lived, they could do a drive by of the home.

Or, if they lived near a Hampton Inn, they might check out the stairs, elevators, hallways, lobby, etc , that kind of thing.

I am sure when you called the hotel, you did not mis~rep yourself.

There is a difference of being curious in a murder case as to becoming obsessed with a case..big difference, huge.

I hope people can see that.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

http://autopsyphotos.blogspot.com/

This is an excellent site for the autopsy info.



No, Swabby, this is the original post that brought it up and linked it here

Time 3:44 pm. GMT

My post was at 3:50 pm, GMT 6 minutes later.

Hope this helps.


Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

I've been thinking back over the last 2 years this morning. When the murder first happened it was to have been a slam dunk case and Jason would be arrested any minute. Feb. 2007 came and no arrest but then the therapist notes were released and they were the smoking gun. That was a year and half ago and no arrest. I guess the deck planks were next and they for sure was a nail in his coffin, no arrest. Feb. 2008 came and the new SW's. Now for sure they had him. 7 months later no arrest. Don't forget the lady bug memorial. Some where told there for sure would be an arrest before the end of summer. Well we are in Fall now and no arrest. Now its there will be an arrest before the 2nd. anniversary. But when questioned they can't or won't say would will be arrested. Dare we believe them once again? Yes I posted I heard there was an indictment handed down ,but the person the information came from didn't realize 2 women had been killed at PE. I think that LE just made a big mistake when they first listened to certain people that said Jason did this. When they realized their mistake the real killers had covered their trail. Then again maybe LE is sticking to their theory Jason is guilty and no matter what they do they can't prove it. Someone should tell them its hard to put a square peg in a round hole.



Hi June..:seeya:

I don't know what has caused the delay of the arrest promised to us many times ,even with specific dates.

Maybe there is something there that excludes Jason completely, and, any case they thought they had against him, has failed to materialize.

I would like something to happen in the next 4 weeks.

Case needs to be closed.


Kat

[5swab5]

No, Swabby, this is the original post that brought it up and linked it here

Time 3:44 pm. GMT

My post was at 3:50 pm, GMT 6 minutes later.

Hope this helps.


Kat


Sorry Kat, but I am not on GMT.

You have lost me, Sorry.


All I have is your post:


10-06-2008, 11:50 AM
Kat4Eagles
Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Philly
Posts: 5,009

Quote:
Originally Posted by zed
Why don't you set up a trust fund for Cassidy while you're making sure the story stays in the news. How's that memorial coming along?



That would be something that Michelle's family or friends that post here could do, good idea.!!

I would love to see NCSU set up a Michelle Young cheerleading scholarship.

I don't believe in strangers interferring in someone's personal life or tragedy, or viewing autospy photos,(ewwwww) that kind of thing just crosses the line !!


MOO

Swabby

[Kat4Eagles]

Sorry Kat, but I am not on GMT.

You have lost me, Sorry.


All I have is your post:


10-06-2008, 11:50 AM
Kat4Eagles
Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Philly
Posts: 5,009

Quote:
Originally Posted by zed
Why don't you set up a trust fund for Cassidy while you're making sure the story stays in the news. How's that memorial coming along?



That would be something that Michelle's family or friends that post here could do, good idea.!!

I would love to see NCSU set up a Michelle Young cheerleading scholarship.

I don't believe in strangers interferring in someone's personal life or tragedy, or viewing autospy photos,(ewwwww) that kind of thing just crosses the line !!


MOO

Swabby


Just go back to 11:44 , then.

Salt's post beat mine by 6 minutes.

Kat

[5swab5]

Good Grief Kat!

I just figured it out. Salt's post that you cited was from Saturday. This is MONDAY.

Hurry-Up and Catch-Up, every chance you get.

MOO

Swabby

EDITED for correctness.

OK Kat, I got it now. Finally. Sorry!

[5swab5]

A bombshell moment as in "If it doesn't fit, you must acquit!!"?

I think trying to persuade 12 people (at least one will have common sense, I hope) that the killer (no matter who it is) stepped on a pillow, then changed into shoes at least a half-inch shorter than his foot--ouch!-- and then stepped on the pillow again and then changed shoes again would be such a moment, yes.:lol:

There is not one scintilla of evidence or common sense, to say OR insist that a footprint made with the Franklin shoe had to be on anyone's foot!

It could have been simply dipped in blood to further the notion, that there were two murderers in that room, instead of one.

MOO

Swabby

[5swab5]

Does this mean posts are going to start disappearing????

Unfortunately, you quoted my post before my edit worked.

I missed the post that Kat was talking about.

I got lost between GMT & EDT...Sorry to all.

I apologized to Kat as well..

Swabby

[5swab5]

The Franklin shoe whether on foot or off still must be tied to Jason Young's ownership and hasn't been. It is common sense that I'm concluding that shoe was on someone else's foot but you use whatever else works best for you.


I guess I can't help you.

This was a very planned out slaughter. Jason cut corners very close, even IF the strangulation has succeeded.

I don't find it possible to logically come to the conclusion, that a "footprint" can ONLY be made, with someone actually wearing a shoe. Neither will a jury.


But if it makes you feel better to insist that there was a foot in that Franklin, go for it.

I have made mention MANY times, that Jason is a "gym rat", he has to this day numerous opportunities for extra "sneaks" for all kinds of reasons. nefarious or not.

IMO

Swabby

[lilismom]

A bombshell moment as in "If it doesn't fit, you must acquit!!"?

I think trying to persuade 12 people (at least one will have common sense, I hope) that the killer (no matter who it is) stepped on a pillow, then changed into shoes at least a half-inch shorter than his foot--ouch!-- and then stepped on the pillow again and then changed shoes again would be such a moment, yes.:lol:


Is there just one Franklin print? If there is just the one then either you have a very careful second person who only messed up once and stepped on the pillow and then immediately removed their shoes or one killer and a very deliberate attempt to throw off LE. Which is it?

If it is Jason, for me, you wouldn't have to put the shoe ON his foot necessarily. He didn't have to put the shoe ON to leave the print. No ouch involved. But you do have to put the shoe in his possession. It appears as if they put the HP's in his possession. Could he have bought the Franklin's with cash so there is no trace? Sure. But did he? If he did, do you have to believe he planned to leave prints? Prints in what if the plan was to strangle her? Smaller shoes just in case he left prints? Did the Franklin prints come first? Was the plan to leave a two sizes two small print to begin with? After all, he wears a 12 right? Who could believe he squeezed his size 12's into a size 10.

Will they run with the one killer that left two prints on purpose to throw off LE theory? If they do, does the jury buy the "bought with cash" story and dismiss the Franklin as just that? Or is it enough of a sticking point to leave just enough doubt for 1 juror? Maybe there isn't enough of a complete puzzle to have the jury buy the "bought with cash" Franklins?

Will they or are they investigating everyone close to Jason's footwear purchases? Maybe someone did by him a cheap pair of sneakers in the wrong size no less, that he never wore and never got around to returning?

My head is spinning. I've talked myself into a circle. Again.

IMO,
Lilismom

[annalyzer]

Lili, aren't the Franklin's the ones that are supposed to have also left impressions in the deck stain?

[JD1974]

You posted a video of Michelle a couple of days ago. Are you going to try to say that she looked sickly? She was fit, healthy, and athletic. As a former cheerleader, she would be very fit as an adult. A healthy, athletic lifestyle throughout childhood automatically translates into a healthy, fit, athletic adult life. Ask any healthy, fit, athletic female adult whether they sat around eating bonbons, or scooping peanut butter out of the bucket with a spoon, as a child if you need confirmation.



You cannot be serious, kids, age and stress change an adult body. I have seen many of my former classmates whom I was on the cheerleading squad with turn into 250 lb wrecks.

[JD1974]

Where are you from? People are not convicted on the basis of emotion in America.


Please tell that to the men who have been freed thanks to the Innocence Project, obviously the evidence was faulty, so what else could of been used?

[5swab5]

You cannot be serious, kids, age and stress change an adult body. I have seen many of my former classmates whom I was on the cheerleading squad with turn into 250 lb wrecks.


Take a look at the Autopsy Report and then tell me what BAD shape Michelle was in.

124 pounds & 5' 6" tall.

Swabby

[5swab5]

Lili, aren't the Franklin's the ones that are supposed to have also left impressions in the deck stain?

Like I have said before, I think Jason thought long and hard about this crime.

MOO

Swabby

[5swab5]

Why are you apologizing , Swabby?
It's patently clear that poster was on a mission to stir the pot and cause trouble. I just got caught up. Take the time to go back and read the comments. Like I said , GLARING and patently clear.

MOO Aggie


I apoligized, because, when I tried to look up Salt's post. I found it on Sat., and I assumed that was the one that Kat was using. I missed Salt's post earlier today.

GMT & EDT contributed to my confusion, I admit.

BUT, the fact also remains, that regardless of who mentions that ex-poster Kat is on a vendetta. That part..I do stand by.

MOO

Swabby

If this post doesn't put it to bed, I quit.

[JD1974]

Take a look at the Autopsy Report and then tell me what BAD shape Michelle was in.

124 pounds & 5' 6" tall.

Swabby


124 lbs and being 5 ft 6 means nothing about how athletic a person is. It is their height and weight period, you can be 6 ft and weigh 170 lbs and not be able to lift 50 lbs. I am not saying in general Michelle wasn't fit, I am just saying it is being assumed she was. The part I was actually responding to was where it was posted that because you are a fit althletic child you automatically become a fit athletic adult and that is the strangest thing I have ever heard.


Originally Posted by zed
You posted a video of Michelle a couple of days ago. Are you going to try to say that she looked sickly? She was fit, healthy, and athletic. As a former cheerleader, she would be very fit as an adult. A healthy, athletic lifestyle throughout childhood automatically translates into a healthy, fit, athletic adult life. Ask any healthy, fit, athletic female adult whether they sat around eating bonbons, or scooping peanut butter out of the bucket with a spoon, as a child if you need confirmation.

[annalyzer]

Like I have said before, I think Jason thought long and hard about this crime.

MOO

Swabby


Well if he wore shoes during the murder that he also used when staining the deck then he didn't think too long and hard.

[5swab5]

124 lbs and being 5 ft 6 means nothing about how athletic a person is. It is their height and weight period, you can be 6 ft and weigh 170 lbs and not be able to lift 50 lbs. I am not saying in general Michelle wasn't fit, I am just saying it is being assumed she was. The part I was actually responding to was where it was posted that because you are a fit althletic child you automatically become a fit athletic adult and that is the strangest thing I have ever heard.

I'm not here to argue Athletic vs fit with you. IF you think that Michelle was out-of shape. Then we will have a different discussion.

The Autopsy Report does not bear that out.

MOO

Swabby

I'd really rather talk about Jason's "new" predatory look that he displayed on an on-line ad , but I doubt you would be willing to go there.

[5swab5]

Or, he didn't realize there was a print in the deckstain. Not sure how many people go around looking for that. I don't.


Makes me more convinced than ever that it was planned, well planned.

One of the VERY first things to come out of Brevard, was the INSISTENCE, that Jason did NOT work on THAT deck. (well, that and that the relatives were playing with shoe sizes on the visible prints)

I think I am starting to see a pattern.

It also shows me, that the CSIs on the scene looked at EVERYTHING!

MOO

Swabby

[5swab5]

And I apologized since as I had no idea that I needed permission to link that blog here.

Don't worry about it.

There does seem to be a discrepancy in the rulings. I know that Kat HATES that former poster, but I am sure that she & I will kiss and make up.

:biggrin:

Swabby

[Kat4Eagles]

Good Grief Kat!

I just figured it out. Salt's post that you cited was from Saturday. This is MONDAY.

Hurry-Up and Catch-Up, every chance you get.

MOO

Swabby

EDITED for correctness.

OK Kat, I got it now. Finally. Sorry!


That's okay , I do know what day it is and to what post I was responding to.

It was today, and it was 6 minutes prior to my response.

:biggrin:
Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Sorry, I didn't know that I couldn't link that blog here. I found it very informative and so did many many others.


But, I didn't.

I found it to be very intrusive and disturbing and if I felt that way, imagine the pain that Michelle's friends and family must have felt, knowing that a complete stranger went to view the remains of their loved one and then reported it on the internet. :no:

The official autopsy report was enough, it was written with someone who had the knowledge and credentials necessary.


Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

A bombshell moment as in "If it doesn't fit, you must acquit!!"?

I think trying to persuade 12 people (at least one will have common sense, I hope) that the killer (no matter who it is) stepped on a pillow, then changed into shoes at least a half-inch shorter than his foot--ouch!-- and then stepped on the pillow again and then changed shoes again would be such a moment, yes.:lol:



That's a big :ouch:!!

I wear a Size 7 1/2 shoe and I am always falling in love with something in a Size 6, but it is just not going to happen.

I have to admit I tried though!!

Kat

[JD1974]

That's a big :ouch:!!

I wear a Size 7 1/2 shoe and I am always falling in love with something in a Size 6, but it is just not going to happen.

I have to admit I tried though!!

Kat


I was thinking along those lines also, I seen the size conversion but I guess my feet can't read or measure well, because there is no way I am going to fit into a size smaller than I normally wear.

[Kat4Eagles]

That is a pretty creepy thing to do. I remember the bruhaha when the media wanted to gain access to Dale Ernhardt's autopsy photos and his wife had to wage an expensive battle to prevent it. It is disrespectful of the deceased's right to death with dignity.


I was in Florida when that happened, and there was a huge war over privacy issues vs. the public's right to know.

It is a very sensitive matter and I was glad Teresa won.

I only hope the same can be applied here.

Kat

[5swab5]

But, I didn't.

I found it to be very intrusive and disturbing and if I felt that way, imagine the pain that Michelle's friends and family must have felt, knowing that a complete stranger went to view the remains of their loved one and then reported it on the internet. :no:

The official autopsy report was enough, it was written with someone who had the knowledge and credentials necessary.


Kat

Maybe for you. ARs are pretty clinical. If that works for you, then fine. I was happy that someone that was following this case had the nerve to go there. I almost PMed him the night before to go too...for moral support...if nothing else. But, my tummy won't take it.

There is going to be twelve + innocent citizens that are also going to be subjected to ALL the horrors of this crime. Murder is ugly, and as much as we would all like to believe that privacy has a place in one's life... sometimes, after death it can't.

MOO

Swabby

For Michelle & Rylan:rose:

[Kat4Eagles]

I was in Florida when that happened, and there was a huge war over privacy issues vs. the public's right to know.

It is a very sensitive matter and I was glad Teresa won.

I only hope the same can be applied here.

Kat

Just a little O/T concerning the rights of autopsy photos.

The Florida Senate by a vote of 40-0 passed SB1356, also dubbed the Earnhardt Family Protection Act, which made releasing autopsy photos a 3rd degree felony!!!

This bill contained a clause making it retroactive , thereby sealing Dale's autopsy materials ...

I guess they do not have that law in NC.

I think that is where #3 was from too,
Coincidence.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Maybe for you. ARs are pretty clinical. If that works for you, then fine. I was happy that someone that was following this case had the nerve to go there. I almost PMed him the night before to go too...for moral support...if nothing else. But, my tummy won't take it.

There is going to be twelve + innocent citizens that are also going to be subjected to ALL the horrors of this crime. Murder is ugly, and as much as we would all like to believe that privacy has a place in one's life... sometimes, after death it can't.

MOO

Swabby

For Michelle & Rylan:rose:


Okay, Swabby, and in how many cases have we followed that the

victim's family either asks to be excused, does not show up that day, or
walks out of the courtroom when it knows the court is going to reveal

such hurtful, painful, and traumatic pics or testimony?

Good grief, and as for the Jurors*, you don't think some of them had to have counselling afterwards?

The Laci Peterson case, for instance, gave many of them nightmares for months to come, one juror had a nervous breakdown!!


Kat

[5swab5]

Just a little O/T concerning the rights of autopsy photos.

The Florida Senate by a vote of 40-0 passed SB1356, also dubbed the Earnhardt Family Protection Act, which made releasing autopsy photos a 3rd degree felony!!!

This bill contained a clause making it retroactive , thereby sealing Dale's autopsy materials ...

I guess they do not have that law in NC.

I think that is where #3 was from too,
Coincidence.

Kat


Apples and Oranges.

There were many reasons that the AR photos in the Earnhardt "case" were sealed.

Not the least of which, was the Insurance and/OR the failure of the 5-point seat belt to preform properly. Liability... ring a bell?

Now, back to the case at hand.

TIA

Swabby

[Kat4Eagles]

Well if he wore shoes during the murder that he also used when staining the deck then he didn't think too long and hard.



Exactly, and yet it somehow has to "fit" in the perfect plan.
:rolleyes:
Kat

[5swab5]

Okay, Swabby, and in how many cases have we followed that the

victim's family either asks to be excused, does not show up that day, or
walks out of the courtroom when it knows the court is going to reveal

such hurtful, painful, and traumatic pics or testimony?

Good grief, and as for the Jurors*, you don't think some of them had to have counselling afterwards?

The Laci Peterson case, for instance, gave many of them nightmares for months to come, one juror had a nervous breakdown!!


Kat

You are preaching to the choir.

I told you I couldn't do it.

NO Defense Attorney wants my gag reflex in the "box".;)

MOO

Swabby

[Kat4Eagles]

Don't worry about it.

There does seem to be a discrepancy in the rulings. I know that Kat HATES that former poster, but I am sure that she & I will kiss and make up.

:biggrin:

Swabby


Only because we try to be mature enough to separate posts from posters.

I can not dream of liking or disliking someone simply because of what they post or because they have a different opinion from me.

If I did that, I would be banging my head on the keyboard constantly, although there are days that are more trying than some!!
This is one of them...
:biggrin:


Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

You are preaching to the choir.

I told you I couldn't do it.

NO Defense Attorney wants my gag reflex in the "box".;)

MOO

Swabby

:thud:


Kat

[5swab5]

(respectfully snipped)Don't try to berate someone's intelligence when you yourself are coming up with theories that the hush puppies were in the closet, Cassidy took them out and played in the blood with them, and then the killers threw them away (because they aren't anywhere to be found in the documents that have been made public). I am not calling your theory unintelligent, so don't call other people's. They are discussion points. You can say you disagree, but don't insult people.

You should have been here, when this one poster insisted that someone dipped Cassidy's socks in the blood and put her prints on the back of the upstairs bathroom door.

We have heard it all!

Except for a reasonable explanation of why everything that Jason coveted in that house, is now his and HIS alone.

MOO

Swabby

[Kat4Eagles]

You should have been here, when this one poster insisted that someone dipped Cassidy's socks in the blood and put her prints on the back of the upstairs bathroom door.

We have heard it all!

Except for a reasonable explanation of why everything that Jason coveted in that house, is now his and HIS alone.

MOO

Swabby


Okay, we can Board experiment with the shoe size thing.

Tomorrow morning when all your husbands, boyfriends, significant others wake up, try this.

Put one of his shoes in his regular size and one 2 sizes too small, and send them off in the world.

I will be waiting for the results at the end of the day.
:biggrin:

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Let me see if I have this correct. The Franklin could have just been dipped in blood and used as a decoy but not the HP. Was I correct in what you are saying?



Yep, that is correct.

Or more to the point, if it makes Jason look bad, guilty, sinister, evil, and a murderer, the answer = yes.

If it precludes him, exempts him, clears him, or gives him the benefit of the doubt, the answer= no.

:)
Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

If I remember correctly and I think I do. It was Jason's investigators that found the print on the deck. Jason knows very good and well who's print that is and it isn't his.



They (Jason, the Youngs and the good guys) also had time to go back to the home after the investigation was complete , and destroy anything that could have pointed or incriminated him, if that were the case.

They could have ripped up all the deck boards and simply said they were remodeling, in order for the home to sell.

:confused:

Kat

[5swab5]

Let me see if I have this correct. The Franklin could have just been dipped in blood and used as a decoy but not the HP. Was I correct in what you are saying?


I never said that.

I was responding to the notion, that Jason had to switch shoes all over the place.

Swabby

[5swab5]

If I remember correctly and I think I do. It was Jason's investigators that found the print on the deck. Jason knows very good and well who's print that is and it isn't his.

I agree, he knows.

But why? IF it isn't his own paw print, is he withholding that info from LE?

TIA

Swabby

[lilismom]

Okay, we can Board experiment with the shoe size thing.

Tomorrow morning when all your husbands, boyfriends, significant others wake up, try this.

Put one of his shoes in his regular size and one 2 sizes too small, and send them off in the world.

I will be waiting for the results at the end of the day.
:biggrin:

Kat

To be fair, while they're at it, ask them to just slip on the shoe for a minute or so and step in some paint, and then step on a pillow case. Then take the shoe right back off. Shouldn't take all day for those results.

IMO,
Lilismom

[5swab5]

They (Jason, the Youngs and the good guys) also had time to go back to the home after the investigation was complete , and destroy anything that could have pointed or incriminated him, if that were the case.

They could have ripped up all the deck boards and simply said they were remodeling, in order for the home to sell.

:confused:

Kat

HAH!

That was never going to happen.

IMO, because of Jason's close family member (that will work) and his, shall we call it a "close-shave" with his former relative? They knew to SHUT up and PUT up money with a lawyer.

Worked once, why not try again?

MOO

Swabby

[5swab5]

I am still baffles by livor being on her front and back. To me that indicates she lay for a good while on her back and was then turned over on her stomach. I haven't seen any thing reported by LE or the ME how this happened if she wasn't turned.


No big mystery to me.

Jason had a LOT to do that night.

Some want to think that Meredith didn't react properly...HE had to MAKE sure that there was ZERO chance that she was coming back to life.

Bless Michelle's heart, she put up a "battle royal".

MOO

Swabby

[Kat4Eagles]

To be fair, while they're at it, ask them to just slip on the shoe for a minute or so and step in some paint, and then step on a pillow case. Then take the shoe right back off. Shouldn't take all day for those results.

IMO,
Lilismom


It is still going to :ouch:

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

HAH!

That was never going to happen.

IMO, because of Jason's close family member (that will work) and his, shall we call it a "close-shave" with his former relative? They knew to SHUT up and PUT up money with a lawyer.

Worked once, why not try again?

MOO

Swabby


You need to be a little clearer.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

No big mystery to me.

Jason had a LOT to do that night.

Some want to think that Meredith didn't react properly...HE had to MAKE sure that there was ZERO chance that she was coming back to life.

Bless Michelle's heart, she put up a "battle royal".

MOO

Swabby



I agree with Michelle putting up a fight.

That is why I think the killer(s) should have had some marks, scratches or bruises on them.

Do you or anyone else think this means there was no dna found under her nails,or that they weren't able to get some prints from her throat ?

Tomorrow is a GJ day, this could be it!!

Kat

[5swab5]

I agree with Michelle putting up a fight.

That is why I think the killer(s) should have had some marks, scratches or bruises on them.

Do you or anyone else think this means there was no dna found under her nails,or that they weren't able to get some prints from her throat ?

Tomorrow is a GJ day, this could be it!!

Kat


According to video camera surveillance...

There is a pretty good rendition of how Jason traveled at night, when he checked into the Hampton on 11-2. Less than an hour later, he was dressed for war AND NEVER used his keycard again.

I would expect no less out of a well thought out plan. He was protected from her nails.

WHERE IS THAT pesky "dark colored pullover garment"?????

Swabby

[5swab5]

It's in the trash
without the cash
post Michelle bash... :flamemad:

I fear you are correct, along with:

One shoe,
Two shoes.
Red shoes,
Blue shoes.

Jason had an advantage, he started thinking about this, long before we even knew it happened.

The Therapist's notes will be important IMO. Jason wasn't depressed, he was pensive... absorbed in planning!


MOO

Swabby


*D* all the CSI programs! (In all fairness) I don't think the news agencies should be telling certain enemies, where the chinks in our armor are either!

[5swab5]

It's in the trash
without the cash
post Michelle bash... :flamemad:

2¢,

Sorry to double hit your post.

But my dial up won't let me edit right now.


You are correct about the money tho. Took the Young family 6 (SIX) months to come up with that scenario. Missing $500.00 in a new missing wallet, hidden in Jason's closet.

GAG me with a SPOON!

MOO

Swabby


The Youngs must think that this is our first rodeo.

[5swab5]

I know - what's up with that? Why did it take that long to let LE know what was missing? Did Jason actually go through all the contents of what was retrieved from the Birchleaf house and make note of what he thought was missing all those months later? Pearl necklace, wallet, $500 cash, wedding rings... Now that's something that makes me go hmmmm.


I Dunno?

Secret pay back for a trip that Jason took with his family MONTHS before the murders. Yet, the murders knew right where to look?

Makes NO sense.

I wouldn't believe anything that Pat Young says, no matter what.

She is posturing for a defense and covering for Jason, plain and simple.

IMO

Swabby

Wonder why she didn't mention the $500.00 & new wallet before witness "A" & "B" were on record? According to early records, she was plenty inconvienced, ::roll eyes:: having to talk to LE and all. BETCHA! there was never a word said about the $$$$, until Jason needed it.

[Kat4Eagles]

According to video camera surveillance...

There is a pretty good rendition of how Jason traveled at night, when he checked into the Hampton on 11-2. Less than an hour later, he was dressed for war AND NEVER used his keycard again.

I would expect no less out of a well thought out plan. He was protected from her nails.

WHERE IS THAT pesky "dark colored pullover garment"?????

Swabby


.............and who does those pesky "size 10 shoes belong to?"

Kat

[lilismom]

It is still going to :ouch:

Kat

Why the yawn? Ya bored?

Yea, maybe it would hurt for a second or two while he made the print IF he put it on his foot and tied it. Just ask him to take one for the team, ya know, for the experiment.

Brings me back to Annalyzer's post from earlier though - the "similar" print in the deck stain. It appears as if someone was wearing Franklins around that house at some point.

Who?

IMO,
Lilismom

[Barbara2]

.............and who does those pesky "size 10 shoes belong to?"

Kat

Maybe you should ask the owner of those pesky Hush Puppies. He should know the answer to your question.

[5swab5]

.............and who does those pesky "size 10 shoes belong to?"

Kat

I guess you would have to ask Jason about that. According to some, he KNOWS who was on that deck.

Who is Jason protecting?

Do they own "missing" HushPuppies too?

Are their "dark colored pullover garments" also falling off and disappearing as they walk down the street?

MOO

Swabby

Must be a bunch of nekkid people in that family, if they walk very far.

[lilismom]

I agree with Michelle putting up a fight.

That is why I think the killer(s) should have had some marks, scratches or bruises on them.

Do you or anyone else think this means there was no dna found under her nails,or that they weren't able to get some prints from her throat ?

Tomorrow is a GJ day, this could be it!!

Kat

Killer likely had gloves on during the attack. Plus how often do they get useable prints off of skin? Truly asking here.

Makes me wonder about the palmprint on the closet door jamb/area. One glove on? One glove off? Hand placed on the wall to steady himself not realizing that it would later be found to be surrounded by blood spatter/splatter/drops? Did Michelle tear the glove/gloves off?

I asked before - anyone have a layout of the bedroom? Honestly trying to get a visual of the area to explain the palm print.

DNA under her nails, if any, is probably her own. So sad.

IMO,
Lilismom

[bookie]

Actually, he could have been wearing the too small of shoes during the majority of the crime. What a great way to throw off people who don't have an imagination. Perhaps he grabbed the hush puppies out after the fact and had to go back to the bloody mess for some unknown reason.

It is not unintelligent at all. Do you not think that people will go to GREAT LENGTHS to not get charged with murder? A few hours of your feet hurting is a hell of a lot less pain than lethal injection or the chair. Or, perhaps a killer should just waltz right in wearing a pair of shoes everyone is familiar with, in the correct size. Yeah, that will make it tough to find the killer, huh?

snipped



It works both ways. A killer could have reached into the closet to grab a pair of shoes after stepping in blood in their size 10's to "go to great lengths to not get charged with murder".

[annalyzer]

I know - what's up with that? Why did it take that long to let LE know what was missing? Did Jason actually go through all the contents of what was retrieved from the Birchleaf house and make note of what he thought was missing all those months later? Pearl necklace, wallet, $500 cash, wedding rings... Now that's something that makes me go hmmmm.


Perhaps it took LE that long to get around to asking the family what was missing. It took them over a year to give the shoe prints to the FBI. :shrug:

[Barbara2]

It works both ways. A killer could have reached into the closet to grab a pair of shoes after stepping in blood in their size 10's to "go to great lengths to not get charged with murder".

And yet Jason and his mother apparently didn't list the size 12 Hush Puppies as being missing. That could be problematic.

[bookie]

And yet Jason and his mother apparently didn't list the size 12 Hush Puppies as being missing. That could be problematic.


The police didn't know until this year that the shoe inpression was made by a Hushpuppy and it wasn't looked for until February so why would Jason or his mom be suspicious of a missing pair of shoes? For all we know they could have thought they were misplaced when the home was packed up.

[lilismom]

It works both ways. A killer could have reached into the closet to grab a pair of shoes after stepping in blood in their size 10's to "go to great lengths to not get charged with murder".

True. With that though, were they trying to frame the male homeowner? Why not take the Franklins you came in with and leave the HP's? Too stupid? Or so smart? Will it be enough for doubt?

Anyone knowledgeable enough or have enough time on their hands to lay out the argument for both sides? If so, is everyone here open minded enough to give it thoughtful consideration if someone takes the time to do it?

If it seems too silly or too time consuming just skip it.

IMO,
Lilismom

[Barbara2]

The police didn't know until this year that the shoe inpression was made by a Hushpuppy and it wasn't looked for until February so why would Jason or his mom be suspicious of a missing pair of shoes? For all we know they could have thought they were misplaced when the home was packed up.

But the other items were not misplaced? You think a jury is going to buy that??

[Kat4Eagles]

Why the yawn? Ya bored?

Yea, maybe it would hurt for a second or two while he made the print IF he put it on his foot and tied it. Just ask him to take one for the team, ya know, for the experiment.

Brings me back to Annalyzer's post from earlier though - the "similar" print in the deck stain. It appears as if someone was wearing Franklins around that house at some point.

Who?

IMO,
Lilismom

That is an ouch, I had to improvise.

Until the new icons arrive.

:biggrin:

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Killer likely had gloves on during the attack. Plus how often do they get useable prints off of skin? Truly asking here.

Makes me wonder about the palmprint on the closet door jamb/area. One glove on? One glove off? Hand placed on the wall to steady himself not realizing that it would later be found to be surrounded by blood spatter/splatter/drops? Did Michelle tear the glove/gloves off?

I asked before - anyone have a layout of the bedroom? Honestly trying to get a visual of the area to explain the palm print.

DNA under her nails, if any, is probably her own. So sad.

IMO,
Lilismom




Do you see the reason why there is so much confusion?

One minute the killer had 1 shoe, then 2 shoes, 1 pattern, 2 patterns, one size, 2 sizes, then 1 glove, then 2 gloves.......

Who should the police be looking for?

Seriously.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Perhaps it took LE that long to get around to asking the family what was missing. It took them over a year to give the shoe prints to the FBI. :shrug:



Good point, Annalyzer.
Maybe they were not all that interested, either.

:shrug:

Kat

[bookie]

But the other items were not misplaced? You think a jury is going to buy that??

I added then removed a sentence form that post before submitting it but what the hay. Maybe they thought Michelle had thrown them away. It was a pair of shoes. Jewelry and other valuables are usually treated differently when packed and moved. I know I'd notice missing jewelry or money long before I'd notice a missing pair of shoes.

[Kat4Eagles]

True. With that though, were they trying to frame the male homeowner? Why not take the Franklins you came in with and leave the HP's? Too stupid? Or so smart? Will it be enough for doubt?

Anyone knowledgeable enough or have enough time on their hands to lay out the argument for both sides? If so, is everyone here open minded enough to give it thoughtful consideration if someone takes the time to do it?

If it seems too silly or too time consuming just skip it.

IMO,
Lilismom


No, it is a very good idea.

It could be helpful to both the Prosecution and the defense to play some things out, like they do with a mock jury.

The big question right now though, is something going to happen tomorrow.??

Oooooooooooh, scary..

Kat

[Barbara2]

I added then removed a sentence form that post before submitting it but what the hay. Maybe they thought Michelle had thrown them away. It was a pair of shoes. Jewelry and other valuables are usually treated differently when packed and moved. I know I'd notice missing jewelry or money long before I'd notice a missing pair of shoes.

And a tooth box? That would stand out over a pair of shoes that you owned? That doesn't add up for me. I doubt that most jurors with common sense will buy it either.

[bookie]

And a tooth box? That would stand out over a pair of shoes that you owned? That doesn't add up for me. I doubt that most jurors with common sense will buy it either.

Yes it would. I guess it's all in a person's priorities. Anything having to do with my children I would definitely notice over shoes. Same with jewelry that was worth money. But I'm just funny like that and I'd guess some potential jurors would be too. The world isn't full of Imelda Marcos'.

[Barbara2]

I don't know for a fact that he is. He may not have told them himself but I am sure the investigators he hired are in contact with Wake county. How would Wake have know about the print on the deck if the investigators hadn't told them?

How would this hired gun know that the print was relevant to the crime unless he had been tipped off by someone in the know? He would have no way of knowing about the print on the pillow.

[Barbara2]

Yes it would. I guess it's all in a person's priorities. Anything having to do with my children I would definitely notice over shoes. Same with jewelry that was worth money. But I'm just funny like that and I'd guess some potential jurors would be too. The world isn't full of Imelda Marcos'.

Most men have a limited wardrobe of shoes. They would notice if a pair were missing. Most men would not notice jewelry or most certainly a tooth box. The only way that would be noticed is if his mother had bought it and for all we know, Michelle hated it and sold it on ebay. There is no way to know that it is really missing unless Jason kept it under his pillow or something. IMO

[Kat4Eagles]

And a tooth box? That would stand out over a pair of shoes that you owned? That doesn't add up for me. I doubt that most jurors with common sense will buy it either.



That tooth box may turn out to be key, sometimes killers like to keep a souvenir <sp> to prove they were there, or maybe this was an item they were told to take.

Complicated case, right?

Can't rule out anything.

Kat

[Barbara2]

That tooth box may turn out to be key, sometimes killers like to keep a souvenir <sp> to prove they were there, or maybe this was an item they were told to take.

Complicated case, right?

Can't rule out anything.

Kat

You realize that that is just the sort of thing that rules Jason in, right?

[Barbara2]

You say she put up a battle royal and yet Jason had no wounds on him. If Jason killed Michelle he couldn't have been the one to turn her over there wasn't enought hours for him to do that. Some one was at the house that day and turned her over. I am assuming that the ME did note the livor at the house before she was moved. If they didn't then that was another oops for them. Here's a good read on livor and the time line.

http://www.coronerstories.com/2005/06/22/%E2%80%9Clivor-mortis%E2%80%9D/

You really have no idea what you're talking about, IMHO.

[Barbara2]

I could certainly be wrong but i have always thought the tooth box was Michelle and had her baby teeth in it. Why would they have a tooth box for Cassie she was at least 4 years from loosing a tooth.

That would be "losing" and it's just the sort of thing that a grandmother would buy. I'm guessing Jason's mother. How else would they realize it was missing?

[Barbara2]

Ok if you say so Barbara. All day you guys have talked about the AR. In the AR it states there was livor on Michelle back side. Michelle was found face down so the livor should have been on her front. There was some livor there also but the livor on her posterior was dark. That to me means Michelle lay a good long time after death on her back and was then turned over. So my question is who turned her over. MF states on the 911 call that she can't and the first responders shouldn't have . They should have been able to establish death without moving the body and waited for the ME. I do know what I am talking about do you not understand what I am saying?


http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2007/01/22/1175523/MichelleYoungAutopsyReport3.swf


I'm not one of the "you guys" talking about the autopsy report because I wasn't here and never mentioned it. I will say that unless you are the ME or you are one of the investigators or you have inside info to the autopsy, you have no idea what you're talking about. IMO

[Barbara2]

I happen to have inside info to the autopsy. I gave you a link to the autopsy. The AR says dark livor on the posterior. Michelle was found face down. The livor should have been on her front.

Are you sure? I thought her body was twisted. Apparently there is some confusion as we were not there, are not privvy to the details and are not the investigators. Unless you have definitive proof that what you guess is true, it's not. IMO

[gbmy]

I don't presume to speak for GOD. Speaking for myself, based on what we "earthly beings" do know, I am fairly certain Jason is guilty. Time makes no difference in the truth, just your perception which is incorrect. Ann Miller, four years. David Temple, seven years. Just to name two which time neglected to make less guilty.

If you presume to speak for GOD again, remember these. Jason apparently didn't.

SIX: 'You shall not murder.'

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'
Stands to reason that the more time and resources you invest in investigating someone you believe is guilty and you aren't finding enough evidence for an arrest, then at some point you have to question the likelihood of the key pieces of evidence you're waiting for actually exist.

This said, no one is debating that there have been cases where a lot of time passed and the person being investigated was found guilty. But, there have also been cases where the person was not arrested. The question is, how does that scale balance.

[Wyn]

Stands to reason that the more time and resources you invest in investigating someone you believe is guilty and you aren't finding enough evidence for an arrest, then at some point you have to question the likelihood of the key pieces of evidence you're waiting for actually exist.

This said, no one is debating that there have been cases where a lot of time passed and the person being investigated was found guilty. But, there have also been cases where the person was not arrested. The question is, how does that scale balance.

Your mistake is thinking that LE isn't finding what they need to arrest Jason, based purely on the fact he hasn't been arrested. There could be a number of reasons. All the way from more shoe info or labs down to Becky Holt being too busy with all the OTHER murders/crimes around Wake County. It hasn't been that long since it was turned over to the DA. If they don't have the "key pieces of evidence" yet, then at some point they will have to consider it a cold case. It doesn't make the person they think is guilty, any less guilty. It's not even close to cold yet. (Sorry Kat, I know you love that term and want it to apply here, but not yet.)

Your "scale balance" isn't even relevant in regards to murder investigations. This case is less than two years old and too many posters watch CSI and such. The last search warrants were served less than eight months ago.

Your scale will be the Scale of Justice that will be balanced when Jason is arrested.

[Kat4Eagles]

are you, too, unable to use your imagination? Unable to suspend belief that someone first leaves a print with his regular-sized shoe and then leaves another print from a shoe two sizes too small that just happens to be lying around? :D



Lol, yep, and I have a good imagination too, but I am having difficulty picturing someone hopping around a murder scene in 2 different shoes and 1 glove stealing a tooth box.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Why would they be? LE measured Jason's feet. If a print didn't match the size of his feet, LE would not be so stupid as to claim it belonged to him and by golly they haven't claimed that so far.


Those search warrants are almost 8 months old!!!!!

But, let's see what happens these last few weeks before the 2 year mark..

Kat

[annalyzer]

Lol, yep, and I have a good imagination too, but I am having difficulty picturing someone hopping around a murder scene in 2 different shoes and 1 glove stealing a tooth box.

Kat



Well someone murdered that poor woman. And according to Jason's family the toothbox was taken. And according to LE there were two different shoe prints left at the scene. The question is who murdered Michelle? And why?

[5swab5]

It works both ways. A killer could have reached into the closet to grab a pair of shoes after stepping in blood in their size 10's to "go to great lengths to not get charged with murder".


I am so SURE, that is a whole litany of people all over the world that were just waitng to "FRAME" Jason Lynn Young!

MOO

Swabby

Where is the shirt, the HushPuppies and why was he checking his VM so often?

[5swab5]

The police didn't know until this year that the shoe inpression was made by a Hushpuppy and it wasn't looked for until February so why would Jason or his mom be suspicious of a missing pair of shoes? For all we know they could have thought they were misplaced when the home was packed up.


You might have a little problem in court with your scenario.

Jason's luggage was confiscated as soon as he FINALLY got back to Cassidy, and HIS mommie was "interviewed".

According to her, he didn't change clothes, switch out anything, do anything, EXCEPT hang-UP on LE on the way back.

MOO!

Swabby

Somebody's a liar! Clothes/shoes just don't FLY out of vehicles running down the road, unless you WANT to get rid of them.

[5swab5]

I added then removed a sentence form that post before submitting it but what the hay. Maybe they thought Michelle had thrown them away. It was a pair of shoes. Jewelry and other valuables are usually treated differently when packed and moved. I know I'd notice missing jewelry or money long before I'd notice a missing pair of shoes.

Not "these" shoes and NOT "that" shirt, too!

What are the odds?

ASTRONOMICAL!

MOO

Swabby

BOGO

[5swab5]

I don't know for a fact that he is. He may not have told them himself but I am sure the investigators he hired are in contact with Wake county. How would Wake have know about the print on the deck if the investigators hadn't told them?


Really? (read...quit jerking my chain)

I am happy to know that Jason has finally taken a step forward!

Has he run out of money? Lawd knows that he has been pizzing it out of both barrels for a while. Why would he NOW be dealing with a private investigator?

MOST IMPORTANTLY! WHY is he keeping their findings secret from LE? Collateral damage?

TOO little TOO late, if you ask me!

MOO

Swabby

Cause, just like the tombstone...NEVER happened!

[5swab5]

You say she put up a battle royal and yet Jason had no wounds on him. If Jason killed Michelle he couldn't have been the one to turn her over there wasn't enought hours for him to do that. Some one was at the house that day and turned her over. I am assuming that the ME did note the livor at the house before she was moved. If they didn't then that was another oops for them. Here's a good read on livor and the time line.

http://www.coronerstories.com/2005/06/22/%E2%80%9Clivor-mortis%E2%80%9D/


We will never know that for sure.

Like everything ELSE involving Rylan & Michelle's murder..Jason is always a few days late to show up.

He hired an Attorney, instead of going in for the NTO in a timely manner, AS COURT ordered.

Boy had on a VERY thick long sleeved "dark colored, pullover garment"...In the middle of the night, when we last saw him on VIDEO!

MOO

Swabby

Where's the shirt?

[5swab5]

I could certainly be wrong but i have always thought the tooth box was Michelle and had her baby teeth in it. Why would they have a tooth box for Cassie she was at least 4 years from loosing a tooth.


Interesting idea, was that where Kim got the "tooth shard", that DNA-wise works, YET got morphed into a full fledged tooth?

TIA

Swabby

[5swab5]

On the back of the door? What was the purpose of that? Why would the killer want LE to think CY walked up the door? That's as absurd as the theory Jason intentionally wore shoes too small, changed them and managed to twice step on a pillow before changing again. :shrug:


I really wish I could tell you to read back.

Unfortunately SO many things have been purged.

Hope that helps!

Swabby

[5swab5]

Ok if you say so Barbara. All day you guys have talked about the AR. In the AR it states there was livor on Michelle back side. Michelle was found face down so the livor should have been on her front. There was some livor there also but the livor on her posterior was dark. That to me means Michelle lay a good long time after death on her back and was then turned over. So my question is who turned her over. MF states on the 911 call that she can't and the first responders shouldn't have . They should have been able to establish death without moving the body and waited for the ME. I do know what I am talking about do you not understand what I am saying?


http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2007/01/22/1175523/MichelleYoungAutopsyReport3.swf


As SICK as it is for me to even type this...AND...I believe it with ALL my heart!

Jason flipped her over to continue his "staging of the crime scene".

MOO

Swabby

[5swab5]

Stands to reason that the more time and resources you invest in investigating someone you believe is guilty and you aren't finding enough evidence for an arrest, then at some point you have to question the likelihood of the key pieces of evidence you're waiting for actually exist.

This said, no one is debating that there have been cases where a lot of time passed and the person being investigated was found guilty. But, there have also been cases where the person was not arrested. The question is, how does that scale balance.


Ya know what,

When you FIRST started posting here, you claimed that GBMY, was God Bless Michelle Young.

Nothing has been further from the truth.

Whatever happened to TRUTH in advertising?

You wore my butt out this weekend with your interpretations of "what" IS---IS.

MOO

Swabby

Must be getting REAL close to THE Magic Tuesday, they have called in reinforcements.

[5swab5]

Lol, yep, and I have a good imagination too, but I am having difficulty picturing someone hopping around a murder scene in 2 different shoes and 1 glove stealing a tooth box.

Kat

:shrug:

What "glove"?

Urban legends are formed out of less.

MOO

Swabby

[Cardinal]

:rose:

Praying for justice for Michelle and Rylan

[Wyn]

Ya know what,

When you FIRST started posting here, you claimed that GBMY, was God Bless Michelle Young.

Nothing has been further from the truth.

Whatever happened to TRUTH in advertising?

You wore my butt out this weekend with your interpretations of "what" IS---IS.

MOO

Swabby

Must be getting REAL close to THE Magic Tuesday, they have called in reinforcements.


Derailment Swabby, runs in the family. No facts, just attempts at imaginary and unrelated philosophical theories to make the JII's FEEL they are on the right track. Too bad that light at the end of the tunnel is a train.

[annalyzer]

:rose:

Praying for justice for Michelle and Rylan


Right there with ya Cardinal. If an indictment was handed down today when will we hear about it?

[Cardinal]

Right there with ya Cardinal. If an indictment was handed down today when will we hear about it?

I don't think there's any way to know, Anna. Even if Michelle's case is on the agenda, there could be many others. And there's always the possibility that the indictment could be sealed.

But I'm hopeful, as always, that it could be today.

[JHP]

I don't think there's any way to know, Anna. Even if Michelle's case is on the agenda, there could be many others. And there's always the possibility that the indictment could be sealed.

But I'm hopeful, as always, that it could be today.

I too am hopeful, but I don't quite understand why there has been such a holdup. Maybe someday we will know.
I hope for the people who love Michelle that there is some resolution soon.
If the indictment were sealed we would probably know after an arrest. Correct?

[annalyzer]

I too am hopeful, but I don't quite understand why there has been such a holdup. Maybe someday we will know.
I hope for the people who love Michelle that there is some resolution soon.
If the indictment were sealed we would probably know after an arrest. Correct?
If an indictment is handed down today would there be an immediate arrest?

[bookie]

You might have a little problem in court with your scenario.

Jason's luggage was confiscated as soon as he FINALLY got back to Cassidy, and HIS mommie was "interviewed".

According to her, he didn't change clothes, switch out anything, do anything, EXCEPT hang-UP on LE on the way back.

MOO!

Swabby

Somebody's a liar! Clothes/shoes just don't FLY out of vehicles running down the road, unless you WANT to get rid of them.


If the shoes were at home why would you expect to find them in his luggage the day Michelle was found murdered? I was talking about when the home was packed up after the murder and Jason moved to his sisters.

Your little dig at Jason's mother was useless because it didn't fit what I was talking about. It just shows the agenda you feel the need to spew here. :punch:

[bookie]

:shrug:

What "glove"?

Urban legends are formed out of less.

MOO

Swabby



If you bothered to actually read posts you'd see where Lillismom posted about a possible glove.

[bookie]

I don't think there's any way to know, Anna. Even if Michelle's case is on the agenda, there could be many others. And there's always the possibility that the indictment could be sealed.

But I'm hopeful, as always, that it could be today.


I could see an indictment being sealed if the police were after another suspect. In this case if an indictment is handed down (and I think there is little to no chance of that) I think an arrest would happen relatively quickly. There is no reason to seal it.

The warrants were obtained 8 months ago. While the information in them has been new to us it hasn't been to the police and DA. If they'd found any incriminating evidence they'd have gone to the grand jury long before now.

[HI_CYCLE]

I am so SURE, that is a whole litany of people all over the world that were just waitng to "FRAME" Jason Lynn Young!

MOO

Swabby

Where is the shirt, the HushPuppies and why was he checking his VM so often?My question is why didn`t LE get a SW for that missing shirt as soon as they saw it on the video? Why wasn`t all of Jason`s shoes collected as evidence as soon as the print`s were seen? He was a salesman, they check their VM frequently. Good morning E1.

[HI_CYCLE]

If an indictment is handed down today would there be an immediate arrest?IMO,before the ink was dry.

[JD1974]

My question is why didn`t LE get a SW for that missing shirt as soon as they saw it on the video? Why wasn`t all of Jason`s shoes collected as evidence as soon as the print`s were seen? He was a salesman, they check their VM frequently. Good morning E1.


Morning Hi Cycle, you know that bothers me also, why did it take so long to collect obvious evidence? They see the video, he has shirt on that they say is not in his luggage, yet they do nothing? They see shoeprints on the pillow or anywhere in blood for that matter and yet again they do nothing? I just realized after they found the shoeprints they requested a cast of his foot, yet not shoes?

This has got to be one of the most confusing cases I have ever seen. Honestly if they have all of this evidence that people see in the s/w's even I am curious why he hasn't been arrested?

[lilismom]

Morning Hi Cycle, you know that bothers me also, why did it take so long to collect obvious evidence? They see the video, he has shirt on that they say is not in his luggage, yet they do nothing? They see shoeprints on the pillow or anywhere in blood for that matter and yet again they do nothing? I just realized after they found the shoeprints they requested a cast of his foot, yet not shoes?

This has got to be one of the most confusing cases I have ever seen. Honestly if they have all of this evidence that people see in the s/w's even I am curious why he hasn't been arrested?


Perhaps to see the actual size of his foot? To see if his foot, regardless of the size shoe he buys, could fit into a smaller size? I'm guessing because I don't believe that he had to put his foot into the size 10 at all to leave the print. Then again, who was wearing the Franklin's on the deck? Were they size 10s too?

Good morning all. Swabby - I posted about gloves when Kat asked about prints that may or may not have been found on Michelle's neck. I figure the killer was wearing gloves. Don't you? Doesn't explain the palm print though. Gloves on? Gloves off? Maybe there was, and forgive me for this, so much blood that it splattered when the killer removed their bloody clothing right on the spot, next to the closet, causing the blood to be found "around" what happens to most likely be Jason's palm print(I forget the exact SW wording about it). Nah, too fantastical right?

IMO,
Lilismom

[JHP]

You have inside info to the autopsy ? You mean you have more info than was available in the AR ? Could you enlighten us further with more details? What do you think the murder weapon was?

Hello Aggie, Aren't we so lucky to have experts about everything here?
A sad to think about possibility, was Michelle was killed in her bed. And when Cassidy was trying to wake her up she somehow pulled or pushed her off. Or perhaps the killer left her in bed while cleaning up, and pushed her off the bed so Cassidy might not think she was in the room.

Hopeful for some news today, but I'm not holding my breath.

[JD1974]

Perhaps to see the actual size of his foot? To see if his foot, regardless of the size shoe he buys, could fit into a smaller size? I'm guessing because I don't believe that he had to put his foot into the size 10 at all to leave the print. Then again, who was wearing the Franklin's on the deck? Were they size 10s too?

Good morning all. Swabby - I posted about gloves when Kat asked about prints that may or may not have been found on Michelle's neck. I figure the killer was wearing gloves. Don't you? Doesn't explain the palm print though. Gloves on? Gloves off? Maybe there was, and forgive me for this, so much blood that it splattered when the killer removed their bloody clothing right on the spot, next to the closet, causing the blood to be found "around" what happens to most likely be Jason's palm print(I forget the exact SW wording about it). Nah, too fantastical right?

IMO,
Lilismom


Honestly, who knows? I can go along with just about any theory. Maybe the house is in the matrix?

[Kat4Eagles]

:seeya: all.
Anything going on?

Just checking in !!

Nail biting day in Raleigh....you think?

If nothing happens before the 2 year mark, then do we have to wait until Dec. for the release of the next s/w??!!

Ackkk.

Kat

Tick tock!!

[Kat4Eagles]

Perhaps to see the actual size of his foot? To see if his foot, regardless of the size shoe he buys, could fit into a smaller size? I'm guessing because I don't believe that he had to put his foot into the size 10 at all to leave the print. Then again, who was wearing the Franklin's on the deck? Were they size 10s too?

Good morning all. Swabby - I posted about gloves when Kat asked about prints that may or may not have been found on Michelle's neck. I figure the killer was wearing gloves. Don't you? Doesn't explain the palm print though. Gloves on? Gloves off? Maybe there was, and forgive me for this, so much blood that it splattered when the killer removed their bloody clothing right on the spot, next to the closet, causing the blood to be found "around" what happens to most likely be Jason's palm print(I forget the exact SW wording about it). Nah, too fantastical right?

IMO,
Lilismom

That would be Ms. Kat, Lilismom!!

:)

Kat

[Cardinal]

Good points though I wouldn't go so far as to say they did nothing. You're right about the shirt. When they saw the hotel video, they still had the house secured as a crime scene. Still had his car so they knew whether or not there was blood tracked into the car. They did obtain his foot impressions/prints. If there were smaller-sized prints at the crime scene, they'll have a real uphill battle persuading a jury that they belong to JY and so far, they haven't done it.

I wasn't aware that "they" had tried to convince a jury of anything so far.

[annalyzer]

Hello Aggie, Aren't we so lucky to have experts about everything here?
A sad to think about possibility, was Michelle was killed in her bed. And when Cassidy was trying to wake her up she somehow pulled or pushed her off. Or perhaps the killer left her in bed while cleaning up, and pushed her off the bed so Cassidy might not think she was in the room.

Hopeful for some news today, but I'm not holding my breath.

I highly doubt the two year old could pull or push her mother's dead body off the bed. :confused: Meredith couldn't even turn her sister over.

[annalyzer]

so far, no indictment.


Would we know already if it happened today?

[Cardinal]

Would we know already if it happened today?

I think the grand jury is still in session - and we won't know until there's either an arrest, the media gets the story or someone with inside connections makes it known, imo.

[JHP]

I highly doubt the two year old could pull or push her mother's dead body off the bed. :confused: Meredith couldn't even turn her sister over.

It was rumored that Meredith found Michelle in a small space between the bed and the wall. We don't know why Meredith couldn't turn her. But just thinking about my children they would have started at the side of the bed pulling at me. Then they would have climbed up and started pushing me and jumping to get my attention. Just thinking that Cassidy had hours to try and get her Moms attention. One poster was saying that someone would have had to have turned Michelle. I was just thinking this was a possibility and a sad one at that.

JMO

[annalyzer]

It was rumored that Meredith found Michelle in a small space between the bed and the wall. We don't know why Meredith couldn't turn her. But just thinking about my children they would have started at the side of the bed pulling at me. Then they would have climbed up and started pushing me and jumping to get my attention. Just thinking that Cassidy had hours to try and get her Moms attention. One poster was saying that someone would have had to have turned Michelle. I was just thinking this was a possibility and a sad one at that.

JMO

Very sad to think that could have happened. I don't necessarily believe the rumor about her being in a tight space next to a wall though. I know every dang house I've lived in my bed is always close to a wall on one side but the Young's lived in a really nice large house and I figure they had ample room on both sides of their bed.

[JD1974]

It was rumored that Meredith found Michelle in a small space between the bed and the wall. We don't know why Meredith couldn't turn her. But just thinking about my children they would have started at the side of the bed pulling at me. Then they would have climbed up and started pushing me and jumping to get my attention. Just thinking that Cassidy had hours to try and get her Moms attention. One poster was saying that someone would have had to have turned Michelle. I was just thinking this was a possibility and a sad one at that.

JMO



I can definitely see her trying to push or pull on Michelle to wake her up, but I can't see a 2 year old being able to move that much weight on her own, it is possible, in this case it seems almost anything is, but I just don't think probable. I guess we would have to know how Michelle was situated on the bed, if she was half on half off it would be more easily accomplished.

IMO

[Kat4Eagles]

Most men have a limited wardrobe of shoes? Really? How many shoes does that wardrobe entail? Ten pair? Two pair? Can you please break it down according to age and socioeconomic factors and also tell us why it matters? Most men would not notice jewelry rather than shoes? Really? Do police always ask a family to inventory shoes after a murder? I've never heard of a case where that's happened. Can you cite a case? I bet a majority of people (regardless of gender) who live in a $300,000+ home that has been the scene of a horrible crime can easily prioritize their possessions and jewelry is far ahead of a pair shoes.

All these board experts, huh, Reinya?

:)

Kat

[BiggerRedDog]

The inside info I had was the AR. I gave you the link.:confused:

[BiggerRedDog]

June, you just posted this yesterday. What am I missing?

#339 10-06-2008, 10:24 PM
june1943
Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 1,304

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbara2
I'm not one of the "you guys" talking about the autopsy report because I wasn't here and never mentioned it. I will say that unless you are the ME or you are one of the investigators or you have inside info to the autopsy, you have no idea what you're talking about. IMO


I happen to have inside info to the autopsy. I gave you a link to the autopsy. The AR says dark livor on the posterior. Michelle was found face down. The livor should have been on her front.
__________________
JuneI read this the same way you did, Agatha. I was thinking June had extra ("inside") info regarding the AR. I guess not.

[JD1974]

I think June's point was a good one in that Michelle was found face down on the floor yet dark rigor was on her back. Rigor takes hours to become fixed. It's not likely the toddler was able to turn or pull anything the shape of a 125 lb body. So this is our second compelling clue that Jason isn't the killer.

1. Franklin shoe two sizes smaller than Jason's size
2. Body apparently turned over several hours after death. Jason was in VA and the toddler didn't have the strength

so who turned over the body and why?

I wonder if #2 on the list is the missing puzzle piece?

[Kat4Eagles]

I read this the same way you did, Agatha. I was thinking June had extra ("inside") info regarding the AR. I guess not.




:lol: But the other insiders you believe without any questions to their credibility, reliability, responsibility, and respectability!!


Gotcha, I see how it works now!!

You know it is all going to come one day, eventually, you do know that, right?

And I believe June when she says she heard LF call Jason a murderer at the funeral home.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

I think June's point was a good one in that Michelle was found face down on the floor yet dark rigor was on her back. Rigor takes hours to become fixed. It's not likely the toddler was able to turn or pull anything the shape of a 125 lb body. So this is our second compelling clue that Jason isn't the killer.

1. Franklin shoe two sizes smaller than Jason's size
2. Body apparently turned over several hours after death. Jason was in VA and the toddler didn't have the strength

so who turned over the body and why?


To me, there is a lot more to add:

3) No visible signs of Jason being in a struggle.
4) No one can come with a motive that makes sense
5) No eyewtiness
6) The 911 call that borders on bizarre
7) Timeline scrunched from seeing Jason @ midnite in Hillsville

Kat

[annalyzer]

I think June's point was a good one in that Michelle was found face down on the floor yet dark rigor was on her back. Rigor takes hours to become fixed. It's not likely the toddler was able to turn or pull anything the shape of a 125 lb body. So this is our second compelling clue that Jason isn't the killer.

1. Franklin shoe two sizes smaller than Jason's size
2. Body apparently turned over several hours after death. Jason was in VA and the toddler didn't have the strength

so who turned over the body and why?Isn't it possible that she was twisted so that her face was facing down but part of her back was was also facing down? Like almost on her side but her face towards the floor?

Does that make sense?

[Kat4Eagles]

That's how I read it, too. Sure threw me for a loop to read we all have inside info on the autopsy report and we didn't even know it. :read:


So, it is necessary for all of you to jump on June because you did not understand her post?

:no:

Kat

[Cardinal]

Isn't it possible that she was twisted so that her face was facing down but part of her back was was also facing down? Like almost on her side but her face towards the floor?

Does that make sense?


It both makes sense, imo, and is supported by Meredith's comment during the 911 call about Michelle's body being twisted in such a way that she couldn't turn her over easily.

[Cardinal]

Has to be. As June pointed out, the dark rigor on Michelle's back was the result of being positioned on her back for hours after death.

I think you mean livor, not rigor, and the AR doesn't say livor was present on her back; it says "posterior". That could just as easily mean the backs of her legs or the back of her neck.

JMO