Michelle Young Sept 26, 2008 [Archive] - In Session Message Boards

JHP

09-26-2008, 02:13 PM

I worked in hotels too and yes floors are vacuumed often but they aren't steam cleaned which is what is needed to kill germs. Not that any of this has anything to do with the case. A person's shoe wearing habit is their own. Just because I always wear shoes and you feel comfortable walking hotel hallways in your socks doesn't prove Jason was leaving the hotel that night.

What we don't know is if there are more photos of J in the hallways at any time after the midnight one on the S/W. If there are none I would say he left the hotel for some reason. For a long period of time. If they have pictures of him retuning to the room at say 2:15
then I think the chance he killed her is slim. But maybe there was an accomplice he met with.

I would like to know more.
JMO

I hate shoes, I don't think twice about running around hotels barefoot. However after some of your comments I might have to rethink it.

HI_CYCLE

09-26-2008, 02:14 PM

I agree about the shoes, no biggie one way or another.

But, nothing says I am leaving for the night like a long sleeve sweater, especially a missing long sleeve sweater.

MOO

Swabby
Who says it is missing,someone has to be looking for it to be missing. MOO
ETA Is it a sweater or sweat shirt?:patriot:

annalyzer

09-26-2008, 02:17 PM

Who says it is missing,someone has to be looking for it to be missing. MOO
ETA Is it a sweater or sweat shirt?:patriot:

Looks like a regular pullover shirt to me.

5swab5

09-26-2008, 02:18 PM

In your opinion maybe. It's 76 degrees here right now and my MIL is sitting in her house wearing a sweater and has a throw blanket on her legs. I could be sweating and she'd be freezing. So that's also that depends on the person.

Comparing what women and men do at any given temperature is useless.

Jason didn't need a sweater to go to the front desk.

MOO
Swabby

Kat4Eagles

09-26-2008, 02:19 PM

Hey, I'm still catching up over there! j/k Still lmao over your not rude because you covered your mouth comment. lol

Hi Anna........!!

CW says to wrap it up around Page 15 or so, and we went over the speed limit.

Thank you and everyone else for joining us here !!

:)

Kat

Kat4Eagles

09-26-2008, 02:24 PM

Comparing what women and men do at any given temperature is useless.

Jason didn't need a sweater to go to the front desk.

MOO
Swabby

Whoa now, hold up there, little lady. :)

Let's say Jason got a shower and had to go out to the car for something he forgot.

A sweater would make sense so he did not catch a cold or :cough:

Same with shoes, it was cold out....remember??

Kat

Kat4Eagles

09-26-2008, 02:37 PM

That is your opinion, not mine but I do tend to keep an open mind.

This is one of those arguments that could go on for days, like the leaves, (which, ,thankfully I slept through) cause we just don't know what Jason's habits were.

But, I am one of the neat freaks too, shoes come off at the door, carpets are clean and I walk around barefooted.

But, I don't do that so much when I stay over in AC.

No matter how clean the room looks, you never know who slept in that bed or what they did in that room before we got there.

So, I guess it is a toss~up.

:shrug:

Kat

5swab5

09-26-2008, 02:52 PM

(snipped)ETA Is it a sweater or sweat shirt?:patriot:

My good deed for the day, I looked it up.:)

Page #1 of the Feb SW:

#5) dark colored, long sleeve pullover garment with a lighter colored thin stripe bisecting the chest area.

So I guess we don't know. I will say that the texture of the garment in that pic at the front desk looks much rougher to me, than the lighter colored shirt that Jason had on when he checked in.

MOO

Swabby

Kat4Eagles

09-26-2008, 02:53 PM

So he left his room open and left the building?

I actually would have no problem with the "needed something out of his car" scenario....had he used his keycard to get back into the room.

Vending machine with door propped...ok...I can imagine that. Parking lot? No.

That's hard to say.

I could see a guy leaving his door open, more than a woman, though.

I think Jason supposedly traveled a lot, and I don't know what his habits were.

Sometimes card keys can be a pain, they will keep giving you a red light, instead of the green light to let you in..

We always stay on the 28th floor or above , so it's not like I am running down to the lobby without using the elevator.

But, now here is a neat thing, you need a elevator card to get to your floor to get to your room to use your door key card.

I see people leaving doors open a lot though.

As for Jason, I just don't know..

Kat

Kat4Eagles

09-26-2008, 04:26 PM

On the supposedly traveled alot note...how often? Does anyone really know? I mean, I know he traveled for work, but I would be really interested in seeing how often he spent the night and specifically for business within 6 hours from home.

I am not saying that him staying is not believable, because I have stayed half way for certain things. I just would like to know to establish a pattern. For example, had he done this twice a month for a year and this fit the pattern? Or, was this particularly night a once in a blue moon (like, first time in 6 months) type of thing.

I don't know , I just read/ heard he was on the road a lot .

I am not sure how often he traveled or if it required him to stay over much.

You did remind me of an earlier post that someone said they once asked Michelle if she was afraid to stay alone.

To which she supposedly replied "No, why?
Is someone going to break in and kill me?"

Early post, no link, just eerie words to remember.

Kat

5swab5

09-26-2008, 04:29 PM

On the supposedly traveled alot note...how often? Does anyone really know? I mean, I know he traveled for work, but I would be really interested in seeing how often he spent the night and specifically for business within 6 hours from home.

I am not saying that him staying is not believable, because I have stayed half way for certain things. I just would like to know to establish a pattern. For example, had he done this twice a month for a year and this fit the pattern? Or, was this particularly night a once in a blue moon (like, first time in 6 months) type of thing.

You are correct, Jason's travel log will indeed be interesting at trial.

I cannot believe that any company that shows a profit, is in the habit of paying for its "traveling salesmen" to routinely stay in hotels only 170 miles from their home. That is absurd.

It is 5 hours from my house to Kitty Hawk on the shore and no one has ever contemplated stopping and spending the night half way there.

MOO

Swabby

Kat4Eagles

09-26-2008, 04:42 PM

You are correct, Jason's travel log will indeed be interesting at trial.

I cannot believe that any company that shows a profit, is in the habit of paying for its "traveling salesmen" to routinely stay in hotels only 170 miles from their home. That is absurd.

It is 5 hours from my house to Kitty Hawk on the shore and no one has ever contemplated stopping and spending the night half way there.

MOO

Swabby

There you go, talking about Jason's trial again.

2 killers, Swabby.

There has always been that pesky 2 killer theory floating around, and now you got 2 different shoes, 2 different styles, 2 different sizes, 2 different patterns, 2 killers.

I was thinking about the pillow.

If it were a bed pillow, that managed to get on the floor during the struggle, I can't see anyone deliberately walking on a bed pillow.

I am wondering if there was some kicking involved and if the pillow was on Michelle as if she was shielding herself, and that is how the prints came about.

Could any of Michelle's head injuries or wounds come from being kicked?

Remember that old post that someone said something was done to Michelle after she was dead...

Could it be that she was kicked?

Sorry for the insensitivity.

:(

Kat

Kat4Eagles

09-26-2008, 04:47 PM

:snipped:

It is 5 hours from my house to Kitty Hawk on the shore and no one has ever contemplated stopping and spending the night half way there.

MOO

Swabby

So, if Jason got on the road close to 8:pm, and wanted to drive straight through to Clintwood, it is ,once again"::, a 5 hour and 34 minute drive, putting him there at approx 1:30 in the morning.

:shrug:

Kat

5swab5

09-26-2008, 05:09 PM

So, if Jason got on the road close to 8:pm, and wanted to drive straight through to Clintwood, it is ,once again"::, a 5 hour and 34 minute drive, putting him there at approx 1:30 in the morning.

:shrug:

Kat

So?

He should have either left earlier, or better yet...got up early in the morning to leave. Much ado about nothing for a brief meeting that he was late for.

Besides, what is a 5½ hour drive for a traveling salesman, they stay on the road.

MOO

Swabby

Cardinal

09-26-2008, 05:42 PM

There you go, talking about Jason's trial again.

2 killers, Swabby.

There has always been that pesky 2 killer theory floating around, and now you got 2 different shoes, 2 different styles, 2 different sizes, 2 different patterns, 2 killers.

I was thinking about the pillow.

If it were a bed pillow, that managed to get on the floor during the struggle, I can't see anyone deliberately walking on a bed pillow.

I am wondering if there was some kicking involved and if the pillow was on Michelle as if she was shielding herself, and that is how the prints came about.

Could any of Michelle's head injuries or wounds come from being kicked?

Remember that old post that someone said something was done to Michelle after she was dead...

Could it be that she was kicked?

Sorry for the insensitivity.

:(

Kat

I'm sorry too, but I've always wondered if she might have been kicked. I think that could account for what some think is 2 different strengths of blows.

The kicks putting the prints on the pillowcase is an interesting possibility, Kat.

JMO

And I will now pack slippers when staying in a motel!

Kat4Eagles

09-26-2008, 05:52 PM

So?

He should have either left earlier, or better yet...got up early in the morning to leave. Much ado about nothing for a brief meeting that he was late for.

Besides, what is a 5½ hour drive for a traveling salesman, they stay on the road.

MOO

Swabby

:no:

We don't know for a fact that Jason was late..

That is an unknown.

Kat

Cardinal

09-26-2008, 06:06 PM

Why would 2 different shoes 'kick' a pillowcase ?
Maybe to soften the blows :shrug:

I don't know - I still don't have a good scenario for the footprints being on the pillowcase at all. But I have always thought it possible that some of the blows were kicks. I guess it would make more sense to me that the footprints occurred as a byproduct of a rage that would lend itself to kicks, than if someone just stepped on a pillow.

JMO

Kat4Eagles

09-26-2008, 06:12 PM

I'm sorry too, but I've always wondered if she might have been kicked. I think that could account for what some think is 2 different strengths of blows.

The kicks putting the prints on the pillowcase is an interesting possibility, Kat.

JMO

And I will now pack slippers when staying in a motel!

I am not sure if any of Michelle's wounds are consistent with kicking ,though, do you think that they could be?

Or, if someone just stomped on the pillow if Michelle was holding it?

I just don't get the walking on a pillow.

Bed pillow, throw pillow, actual pillow, or pillow case?

Good idea about the slippers.:)

Kat

Kat4Eagles

09-26-2008, 06:18 PM

I don't know - I still don't have a good scenario for the footprints being on the pillowcase at all. But I have always thought it possible that some of the blows were kicks. I guess it would make more sense to me that the footprints occurred as a byproduct of a rage that would lend itself to kicks, than if someone just stepped on a pillow.

JMO

So, then I guess the pillow was on the floor, and somehow this pillow was involved in the struggle and the murder,and that this was the pillow mentioned and moved in the 911 call.

I am staying with that .

Kat

Cardinal

09-26-2008, 06:20 PM

I am not sure if any of Michelle's wounds are consistent with kicking ,though, do you think that they could be?

Or, if someone just stomped on the pillow if Michelle was holding it?

I just don't get the walking on a pillow.

Bed pillow, throw pillow, actual pillow, or pillow case?

Good idea about the slippers.:)

Kat

I checked the SW and the autopsy report. The SW just says "pillow". I suppose it could be a bed pillow, or one of those decorative smaller ones. The smaller one might be more likely to be stepped on.

But the autopsy report.......remember the "crescentic abrasion"? Suppose it was the tip of a shoe?

JMO

Cardinal

09-26-2008, 06:21 PM

I bet we hear about many more prints in that room.
The pillow on the floor just provided the clearest evidence due to the smooth texture.

I can see that. And I would be really surprised if there weren't other footprints in the room.

JMO

5swab5

09-26-2008, 06:26 PM

So, then I guess the pillow was on the floor, and somehow this pillow was involved in the struggle and the murder,and that this was the pillow mentioned and moved in the 911 call.

I am staying with that .

Kat

There is zip, nada, nothing to indicate that the pillow that Meredith moved was the one with the footprints on it.

Good Grief, how many married couples only have one pillow in their bedroom?

MOO

Swabby

Kat4Eagles

09-26-2008, 06:33 PM

There is zip, nada, nothing to indicate that the pillow that Meredith moved was the one with the footprints on it.

Good Grief, how many married couples only have one pillow in their bedroom?

MOO

Swabby

In order to get to Michelle, if there were a pillow by her, it would have to be moved, right?

Why would you take a pillow off the bed?
Or just reach for another pillow somewhere else?

This is the pillow.

Kat

Cardinal

09-26-2008, 06:36 PM

In order to get to Michelle, if there were a pillow by her, it would have to be moved, right?

Why would you take a pillow off the bed?
Or just reach for another pillow somewhere else?

This is the pillow.

Kat

It could be, Kat. But IIRC, right before Meredith moved the pillow, she mentioned blood in the bed. So she could have moved a pillow on the bed, instead.

JMO

Cardinal

09-26-2008, 06:49 PM

It's all about the mindset. Anyone but Jason. ;)

Actually, I don't think we were talking so much about "who did it" as we were about "how it was done".

JMHO

Kat4Eagles

09-26-2008, 06:59 PM

Actually, I don't think we were talking so much about "who did it" as we were about "how it was done".

JMHO

Yes, we were.

Thank you, Card.
:)
Kat

Cardinal

09-26-2008, 07:10 PM

Yes, we were.

Thank you, Card.
:)
Kat

You're welcome. And I think it was a good discussion. FWIW, I really enjoyed reading the discussion earlier today. Very constructive, I thought.

The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that the abrasion was the tip of a shoe.

JMO

5swab5

09-26-2008, 07:18 PM

In order to get to Michelle, if there were a pillow by her, it would have to be moved, right?

Why would you take a pillow off the bed?
Or just reach for another pillow somewhere else?

This is the pillow.

Kat

Nope, no way of knowing that.

You actually believe that Michelle endured the beating she did and only one pillow fell off the bed?

Not logical.

MOO

Swabby

Cardinal

09-26-2008, 07:18 PM

I disagree. Although Swabby was the one to mention Meredith, the insinuation was there when Kat4Eagles talked about the pillow being moved on the 9-1-1 call. I guess it's all in how you read what's put out there. Thanks for correcting me.

I wasn't trying to correct you; I'm sorry if that's how what I said came across. I was just stating my perspective, and my position in the conversation.

I guess everyone interprets things from their own perspective and position. I know I do.

JMO

Cardinal

09-26-2008, 07:26 PM

Nope, no way of knowing that.

You actually believe that Michelle endured the beating she did and only one pillow fell off the bed?

Not logical.

MOO

Swabby

I think the first blow sent Michelle off the bed - I think she would have tried to get away at that point. If that's true, there's no way to know how many pillows fell off the bed.

And that's assuming she was in the bed when first attacked. I'm not sure that's a valid assumption.

JMO

Kat4Eagles

09-26-2008, 07:40 PM

You're welcome. And I think it was a good discussion. FWIW, I really enjoyed reading the discussion earlier today. Very constructive, I thought.

The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that the abrasion was the tip of a shoe.

JMO

Yes, we have been having some good discussions.

Something else always continues to bug me, it was an old post where someone said something awful was done to Michelle after she died.

I never forgot that, although I have no idea what it meant.

Possibly nothing, because Michelle suffered such a horrible death as it was.

And, if it really was that horrible, than MF would have noticed it.

Then I remember C's words of Mommy having boo boo's everywhere and I am wondering what she sees, if Michelle is twisted and facing down..what is visible to C, and again why did MF not notice the wounds C describes.

What is C talking about?

Then I wonder how long this struggle took place, and why it took so long to kill Michelle, it almost seems like the killer was prolonging it, and why would they do that?

Unless it was a thrill kill, and they were in no hurry to leave, and they even left all the lights on in the house as their calling card.

Then , there is this.
Maybe the attempted strangulation was stopped on purpose..!!

I need a break!!

Kat

Cardinal

09-26-2008, 07:41 PM

It has been a really tough week. I'm all in.

Goodnight, everyone. :seeya:

:rose: And justice for Michelle and Rylan.

gorealtors

09-26-2008, 07:49 PM

I think the first blow sent Michelle off the bed - I think she would have tried to get away at that point. If that's true, there's no way to know how many pillows fell off the bed.

And that's assuming she was in the bed when first attacked. I'm not sure that's a valid assumption.

JMO

I think it is a valid assumption since blood was found in the bed. The first blow either sent her off the bed or she attempted to right herself in an effort to fight back, which is obvious due to the cuts on her hands. The massive blows to her jaw and mouth rendered her helpless. JMO

gorealtors

09-26-2008, 07:52 PM

Yes, we have been having some good discussions.

Something else always continues to bug me, it was an old post where someone said something awful was done to Michelle after she died.

I never forgot that, although I have no idea what it meant.

Possibly nothing, because Michelle suffered such a horrible death as it was.

And, if it really was that horrible, than MF would have noticed it.

Then I remember C's words of Mommy having boo boo's everywhere and I am wondering what she sees, if Michelle is twisted and facing down..what is visible to C, and again why did MF not notice the wounds C describes.

What is C talking about?

Then I wonder how long this struggle took place, and why it took so long to kill Michelle, it almost seems like the killer was prolonging it, and why would they do that?

Unless it was a thrill kill, and they were in no hurry to leave, and they even left all the lights on in the house as their calling card.

Then , there is this.
Maybe the attempted strangulation was stopped on purpose..!!

I need a break!!

Kat

What was visible was the back of her head bashed in. GMAB.:flamemad:

Kat4Eagles

09-26-2008, 11:12 PM

What was visible was the back of her head bashed in. GMAB.:flamemad:

So, then MF saw the wounds but still thought she fell.?

Hmmmm..

Kat

Barbara2

09-27-2008, 08:10 AM

So, then MF saw the wounds but still thought she fell.?

Hmmmm..

Kat

You have been corrected many times on this but continue to post a misrepresentation. There is no indication that Meredith "thought she fell". She was talking to a small child. It's not like she could come out with the brutal truth and still remain a calming influence to an innocent child.
JMO

Cardinal

09-27-2008, 08:18 AM

I think it is a valid assumption since blood was found in the bed. The first blow either sent her off the bed or she attempted to right herself in an effort to fight back, which is obvious due to the cuts on her hands. The massive blows to her jaw and mouth rendered her helpless. JMO

IIRC, it has been said that there was blood spatter on the bedside lamp and wall. This makes me wonder if the first blow occurred when Michelle was standing beside the bed, and the force of the blow caused her to fall onto the bed. The attempted strangulation could have taken place at that point, as well as other blows, while Michelle bled onto the bed. Then she broke free for a moment, but.......

I hate having those images in my head, so I apologize for putting them in anyone else's head. But I think that's a possibility.

JMO

Barbara2

09-27-2008, 08:25 AM

Cardinal

09-27-2008, 08:34 AM

I remember that discussion as well in the early months after the murder. Some were wondering if there was a phone on that nightstand that she may have tried to get to. I don't know that anyone ever answered that question definitively.

I honestly was not here in the early months, so I didn't know it had been discussed. Maybe a phone. Or maybe, she was trying to get something from the closet to defend herself?

Barbara2

09-27-2008, 09:01 AM

I honestly was not here in the early months, so I didn't know it had been discussed. Maybe a phone. Or maybe, she was trying to get something from the closet to defend herself?

I would be curious to know if her closet had been torn apart as well. We heard early on (rumor) that his closet had stuff thrown out of it but there was no mention of hers and the closets were side by side. I thought it odd that a burglar would ransack one closet looking for things and not touch the other.

HI_CYCLE

09-27-2008, 09:28 AM

You have been corrected many times on this but continue to post a misrepresentation. There is no indication that Meredith "thought she fell". She was talking to a small child. It's not like she could come out with the brutal truth and still remain a calming influence to an innocent child.
JMOBarbara, unless you are Meredith and I don`t believe you are, you have NO idea what she was thinking when she ask Cassy if her Mom fell. So accusing Kat of, posting"a misrepresentation". is a little hypocritical,doncha think?

HI_CYCLE

09-27-2008, 09:33 AM

I would be curious to know if her closet had been torn apart as well. We heard early on (rumor) that his closet had stuff thrown out of it but there was no mention of hers and the closets were side by side. I thought it odd that a burglar would ransack one closet looking for things and not touch the other.It would tell me that someone knew exactly what they were looking for. Money? Who would know that Jason kept money in his closet, a place that many keep cash for emergencies? Maybe someone who had lived with them before and knew there routine's?

Barbara2

09-27-2008, 09:36 AM

Barbara, unless you are Meredith and I don`t believe you are, you have NO idea what she was thinking when she ask Cassy if her Mom fell. So accusing Kat of, posting"a misrepresentation". is a little hypocritical,doncha think?

Not at all. Kat keeps repeating that as if it is a true statement, not her opinion. When I take the entire call together and put that question made to Cassidy in context, it is my opinion that Meredith did not think that Michelle fell.

HI_CYCLE

09-27-2008, 09:38 AM

Not at all. Kat keeps repeating that as if it is a true statement, not her opinion. When I take the entire call together and put that question made to Cassidy in context, it is my opinion that Meredith did not think that Michelle fell.
But you didn`t say it was your opinion. You posted it a fact and chastising Kat for posting it.

Barbara2

09-27-2008, 09:38 AM

It would tell me that someone knew exactly what they were looking for. Money? Who would know that Jason kept money in his closet, a place that many keep cash for emergencies? Maybe someone who had lived with them before and knew there routine's?

Or it could tell you that an angry wife was throwing everything out of her husband's closet because she found out something that was the final straw and she wanted him and his stuff out of the house. That is another possibility.

Barbara2

09-27-2008, 09:40 AM

But you didn`t say it was your opinion. You posted it a fact.

JMO=Just my opinion. That was a part of my post. Just my opinion.

HI_CYCLE

09-27-2008, 09:44 AM

JMO=Just my opinion. That was a part of my post. Just my opinion.
I stand corrected Thank you for pointing that out.:)

HI_CYCLE

09-27-2008, 09:46 AM

Or it could tell you that an angry wife was throwing everything out of her husband's closet because she found out something that was the final straw and she wanted him and his stuff out of the house. That is another possibility.
I have always stated there are a lot of possibilities in this unsolved murder.That is why I try to keep an open mind.

JHP

09-27-2008, 10:08 AM

Barbara, unless you are Meredith and I don`t believe you are, you have NO idea what she was thinking when she ask Cassy if her Mom fell. So accusing Kat of, posting"a misrepresentation". is a little hypocritical,doncha think?

Don't you supposedly have a 2 year old living with you? What do you think Meredith should have asked her? It wasn't as though Cassidy said "Aunt Meredith there has been a home invasion and I believe someone bludgened my mother to death, she appears to be unconcious"
And Meredith replied did she fall? She was trying to figure out if Cassidy knew what happened.

JMO

annalyzer

09-27-2008, 10:29 AM

I have always stated there are a lot of possibilities in this unsolved murder.That is why I try to keep an open mind.

I try to have an open mind too but now, after listening to that 911 call for the umpteenth time, I am going to have to give MF the benefit of the doubt and put it all down to shock. There is absolutely no evidence that MF had anything to do with Michelle's murder and until there is that leaves only Jason as suspect. He is keeping his mouth shut for a reason.

Barbara2

09-27-2008, 11:47 AM

I try to have an open mind too but now, after listening to that 911 call for the umpteenth time, I am going to have to give MF the benefit of the doubt and put it all down to shock. There is absolutely no evidence that MF had anything to do with Michelle's murder and until there is that leaves only Jason as suspect. He is keeping his mouth shut for a reason.

I agree. When asked by the dispatcher what happened, I believe MF said, "I have no idea".

HI_CYCLE

09-27-2008, 11:54 AM

Police are looking for it and can't find it. I guess that means it's missing.Can you post a link where "police" are looking for it? I know posters are but LE?

HI_CYCLE

09-27-2008, 11:55 AM

Don't you supposedly have a 2 year old living with you? What do you think Meredith should have asked her? It wasn't as though Cassidy said "Aunt Meredith there has been a home invasion and I believe someone bludgened my mother to death, she appears to be unconcious"
And Meredith replied did she fall? She was trying to figure out if Cassidy knew what happened.

JMONo, I don`t supposedly, I do have a 28 month old granddaughter living with me and you can bet your bippy I would get her out of the house as soon as I seen there was nothing I could do for the victim,which would take less then 10 seconds in this case. She would be my very first concern.I could call 911 from a cell phone and i would not need a 911 operator to tell me to remove her from the scene. You don`t ask a baby to tell you what happened,period. A child is to be protected and staying in that room with a bloody body of her mother was not only stupid but dangerous. Adults PROTECT children, not put them in danger.hammer

HI_CYCLE

09-27-2008, 11:58 AM

In that case, there would be footage of him going outside and coming back in. Good to see that, even with your open mind, you're still making excuses for Jason.Not true,the video is not continuous.I remember one of the JDI posting that LE was lucky capturing the still`s they did.

HI_CYCLE

09-27-2008, 12:00 PM

I try to have an open mind too but now, after listening to that 911 call for the umpteenth time, I am going to have to give MF the benefit of the doubt and put it all down to shock. There is absolutely no evidence that MF had anything to do with Michelle's murder and until there is that leaves only Jason as suspect. He is keeping his mouth shut for a reason.He has a reason,his lawyer told him 2. Good enough reason since spin is the strongest word used in LE and politics today.

HI_CYCLE

09-27-2008, 12:04 PM

Yet just yesterday you posted that you are willing to consider anyone except Jason as the perpetrator. Is that an open mind :shrug:IMO, Jason has been ruled out IMO, because he has a alibi that LE has NOT been able to break in 22 plus months.

annalyzer

09-27-2008, 12:12 PM

Or it could tell you that an angry wife was throwing everything out of her husband's closet because she found out something that was the final straw and she wanted him and his stuff out of the house. That is another possibility.

How would this work into the theory that this murder was premeditated?

Barbara2

09-27-2008, 12:14 PM

How would this work into the theory that this murder was premeditated?

It would be a possibility that the husband himself provoked the anger. It's been known to happen in marriages and relationships. IMO

HI_CYCLE

09-27-2008, 12:17 PM

Is it a timed video, where pictures are taken at intervals?
I think so.

annalyzer

09-27-2008, 12:19 PM

HI_CYCLE

09-27-2008, 12:20 PM

Jason has given an alibi that cannot be verified, so it's not worth much at this time.He has NOT been arrested and if LE has all the evidence the JDI think they have he would be behind bars awaiting trial. IMO

annalyzer

09-27-2008, 12:26 PM

It would be a possibility that the husband himself provoked the anger. It's been known to happen in marriages and relationships. IMO

Yes but when did this anger erupt and how does that fit in with the premeditation, him staying only 2.5 hours away, etc.?

HI_CYCLE

09-27-2008, 12:26 PM

Says a lot about the person who left her there in the first place.
I agree,someone who would murder would care less,but...... Meredith had a chance to get her out,she was the adult in charge of the situation once she went in the bedroom. EVEN in shock.
She certainly did not need to keep her in the BR and question her.That was stupid IMO

Barbara2

09-27-2008, 12:29 PM

Yes but when did this anger erupt and how does that fit in with the premeditation, him staying only 2.5 hours away, etc.?

I don't think that killing a person is that easy to do. I can see someone provoking a fight prior to the act against someone that they are supposed to love in order to get the adrenaline flowing in order to carry it out. That's the way I envisioned it anyway.

annalyzer

09-27-2008, 12:36 PM

I agree,someone who would murder would care less,but...... Meredith had a chance to get her out,she was the adult in charge of the situation once she went in the bedroom. EVEN in shock.
She certainly did not need to keep her in the BR and question her.That was stupid IMO

Okay, let's say she's not the sharpest tool in the shed. Do you still find the 911 call puts her under suspicion in her sister's murder?

annalyzer

09-27-2008, 02:46 PM

I completely agree. I also give absolutely NO creedence to anyone who posts that they know what they would do in the same situation. You know what you THINK you would do or what you would HOPE you would do...but until in that actual situation, you cannot know. Shock and panic make people react differently. Let's hope that no one on this board ever is put in the situation where they find out.

I believe I know that if I came upon a loved one on the floor I would first check the immediate area for safety and then check my loved one to ascertain their condition. My cpr training has taught me that.

I have compared MF's 911 call with Jessie Davis' mom's 911 call and saw a striking difference. I can understand why some would question it but at this point, two years later, how can we still doubt it was genuine when there has been nothing else pointing at MF?

But on the other hand if the case is so strong against Jason why hasn't there been an arrest? What are they waiting on?

Cardinal

09-27-2008, 02:53 PM

Yes but when did this anger erupt and how does that fit in with the premeditation, him staying only 2.5 hours away, etc.?

I've never been convinced that IF Jason killed Michelle, it was premeditated by more than a few hours. The anger could have erupted during a phone call to Michelle.

JMO

5swab5

09-27-2008, 02:59 PM

(respectfully snipped)I have compared MF's 911 call with Jessie Davis' mom's 911 call and saw a striking difference. (snip)

I don't know if Blake was chattering in the background on the 911 tape or not, because I didn't follow that case from the very beginning, but I do know that LE listened closely to what that child had to say.

I hope Wake County LE was as prudent with Cassidy's words.

MOO

Swabby

annalyzer

09-27-2008, 02:59 PM

I've never been convinced that IF Jason killed Michelle, it was premeditated by more than a few hours. The anger could have erupted during a phone call to Michelle.

JMO

Then that would make him stopping at a hotel only 2.5 hours away not so suspicious.

Barbara2

09-27-2008, 03:04 PM

Then that would make him stopping at a hotel only 2.5 hours away not so suspicious.

The printout would not seem so suspicious either.

annalyzer

09-27-2008, 03:05 PM

I don't know if Blake was chattering in the background on the 911 tape or not, because I didn't follow that case from the very beginning, but I do know that LE listened closely to what that child had to say.

I hope Wake County LE was as prudent with Cassidy's words.

MOO

Swabby

Yes, I heard him in the background. But what he had to say was broadcast all over the news, "Mommy fell. Mommy's in a rug.", or something like that. He kept repeating the same thing for days. He was very traumatized. But that may be because he was left totally alone whereas Cassidy had her mother with her, she not knowing what dead means.

Cardinal

09-27-2008, 03:06 PM

Then that would make him stopping at a hotel only 2.5 hours away not so suspicious.

It has been said that, as a salesman, he should have been able to drive longer than 2.5 hours. That has been countered with the argument that he was tired, and the roads were about to get mountainous.

I think both arguments are valid. But suppose the reason he left that evening was because Michelle asked him to leave. Suppose the reason Jason was tired was because he was upset. Suppose he called her and upset became angry.

JMO

annalyzer

09-27-2008, 03:07 PM

The printout would not seem so suspicious either.

Why is that?

Barbara2

09-27-2008, 03:08 PM

Why is that?

If he didn't plan this ahead of time, there would have been no need to set up the excuse to get someone over there.

annalyzer

09-27-2008, 03:09 PM

It has been said that, as a salesman, he should have been able to drive longer than 2.5 hours. That has been countered with the argument that he was tired, and the roads were about to get mountainous.

I think both arguments are valid. But suppose the reason he left that evening was because Michelle asked him to leave. Suppose the reason Jason was tired was because he was upset. Suppose he called her and upset became angry.

JMO

I think we would have heard about this from the GA friend. I don't think all that could've taken place and then Michelle just had her usual tv nite with her friend without confiding in her.

5swab5

09-27-2008, 03:11 PM

Since the board was reformulated or whatever?

There is a difference between banned and a time out.

I realize that.LOL

This has been going on since the very beginning of the Michelle Young case and continues to this day.

IMO

Swabby

I have lost count of all her banned nics.

annalyzer

09-27-2008, 03:11 PM

If he didn't plan this ahead of time, there would have been no need to set up the excuse to get someone over there.

Oh right. The printout was left on the computer or wherever. Could he have done that after the murder or do we know he left it there before leaving home?

Barbara2

09-27-2008, 03:14 PM

Oh right. The printout was left on the computer or wherever. Could he have done that after the murder or do we know he left it there before leaving home?

I believe if he had done it after the murder, he would be tied to the house in the early morning hours and he would have been arrested a long time ago. I think he printed it out before leaving the house the evening of the 2nd.

Cardinal

09-27-2008, 03:14 PM

If he didn't plan this ahead of time, there would have been no need to set up the excuse to get someone over there.

IF Jason killed Michelle, he had a long drive back to Hillsville to think of a reason to get someone over there. Maybe the purse printout was shown to the GA friend for exactly the reason the JIIs have said, and Jason hit on that as a ruse because it was fresh in his memory.

Maybe there wasn't as much of a plan as some think.

JMO

annalyzer

09-27-2008, 03:15 PM

I realize that.LOL

This has been going on since the very beginning of the Michelle Young case and continues to this day.

IMO

Swabby

I have lost count of all her banned nics.

I disagree. Before a banned poster was allowed back on under a new nic and then once they violated TOS they were banned again. Since the new format the banned posters are are not allowed back on once they're found out. This forum also allows posters to have several nics so someone you think may have been banned may be just posting under an alternate nic.

Sorry for the o/t.

5swab5

09-27-2008, 03:16 PM

It has been said that, as a salesman, he should have been able to drive longer than 2.5 hours. That has been countered with the argument that he was tired, and the roads were about to get mountainous.

I think both arguments are valid. But suppose the reason he left that evening was because Michelle asked him to leave. Suppose the reason Jason was tired was because he was upset. Suppose he called her and upset became angry.

JMO

I believe that they hadn't really been getting along for some time. Could be Michelle Money, could be anything, maybe Jason wanted to know why she was going to a therapist...I just don't know.

But, I do believe that he knew that the end was near, and like Scott Peterson, didn't want that child support, alimony or a divorce to tarnish his image.

MOO

Swabby

5swab5

09-27-2008, 03:20 PM

I believe if he had done it after the murder, he would be tied to the house in the early morning hours and he would have been arrested a long time ago. I think he printed it out before leaving the house the evening of the 2nd.

Definitely before he left. (time stamp)

The charge will have to be pre-meditated.

MOO

Swabby

Cardinal

09-27-2008, 03:21 PM

I believe that they hadn't really been getting along for some time. Could be Michelle Money, could be anything, maybe Jason wanted to know why she was going to a therapist...I just don't know.

But, I do believe that he knew that the end was near, and like Scott Peterson, didn't want that child support, alimony or a divorce to tarnish his image.

MOO

Swabby

I agree with your first thought, but disagree with your second one. I don't think Jason would have wanted his marriage to end because he wouldn't want to appear to have failed, and because he wouldn't have wanted to be separated from Cassidy.

JMO

5swab5

09-27-2008, 03:25 PM

I disagree. Before a banned poster was allowed back on under a new nic and then once they violated TOS they were banned again. Since the new format the banned posters are are not allowed back on once they're found out. This forum also allows posters to have several nics so someone you think may have been banned may be just posting under an alternate nic.

Sorry for the o/t.

Good enough, I didn't know we could have multiple nics, thanks for the explanation.

~~~~~~~~`
You know, between Jason's closet being in disarray and (it would seem that) neither of them were wearing their rings. That magical $500.00 in a new wallet in Jason's closet seems more and more like a red herring.

MOO

Swabby

5swab5

09-27-2008, 03:27 PM

I agree with your first thought, but disagree with your second one. I don't think Jason would have wanted his marriage to end because he wouldn't want to appear to have failed, and because he wouldn't have wanted to be separated from Cassidy.

JMO

I agree 100%!

Failure and Cassidy were huge parts of it.

MOO

Swabby

I notice he even got his dog back too.

annalyzer

09-27-2008, 03:41 PM

Good enough, ~snipped Swabby

I forgot IMO. I don't know it for certain. :o

Cardinal

09-27-2008, 04:00 PM

Plan or no plan, premeditation does apply. Whoever murdered Michelle could have stopped when the strangulation attempt failed. Rather than stop, they bludgeoned her to death. Whoever did this, wanted her dead. Of course, this is all presuming the strangulation attempt came first.

As I posted earlier, I'm not convinced the strangulation attempt came first. But I agree, under the law, premeditation would apply, whether or not there was a plan, IF Jason drove to Raleigh with the intention of killing Michelle.

JMO

5swab5

09-27-2008, 04:06 PM

Barbara2

09-27-2008, 04:15 PM

That is for sure.

Such overkill.

Venomous hatred, IMO

Swabby

Not only overkill but very specific overkill. She wasn't beaten all over her body. It seemed like it was just her head. I think that's one reason that investigators believe it was personal.

5swab5

09-27-2008, 04:34 PM

Not only overkill but very specific overkill. She wasn't beaten all over her body. It seemed like it was just her head. I think that's one reason that investigators believe it was personal.

So true.

The torso is such a larger target and easier to hit.

To pound on the head, time after time. Annihilation was the project here.

Poor Michelle.:rose:

MOO

Swabby

Barbara2

09-27-2008, 04:43 PM

If Jason didn't pre-plan and commit this murder, he has to be the unluckiest guy on earth. On the very night that he decides to stay overnight only 2.5 hours away, leave his room with no record of reentering, call his sister in law to go to the house for an unusual request, decide at the last minute to spend the night with his mom meaning he wouldn't return home that day (even though out of town guests were expected) and a shoe print in his shoe size in a brand that he is known to have purchased left in blood at the scene, his wife is murdered. The odds of his wife being murdered have to be high. The odds of all of the other pieces happening as they did has to be ASTRONOMICAL!

JHP

09-27-2008, 04:44 PM

No, I don`t supposedly, I do have a 28 month old granddaughter living with me and you can bet your bippy I would get her out of the house as soon as I seen there was nothing I could do for the victim,which would take less then 10 seconds in this case. She would be my very first concern.I could call 911 from a cell phone and i would not need a 911 operator to tell me to remove her from the scene. You don`t ask a baby to tell you what happened,period. A child is to be protected and staying in that room with a bloody body of her mother was not only stupid but dangerous. Adults PROTECT children, not put them in danger.hammer

The person who left Cassidy in that situation is the one who put her in danger. NOT Meredith. I guess your granddaughter isn't a big talker, Cassidy seemed quite knowledgable about mommy having Boo-Boo's and how to fix them. She might have known what happened. I have spent alot of time with many 2-3 year olds, and they tell it like it is, if they are verbal.

Meredith did protect her by staying calm and not freaking out and screaming. Didn't a Grandmother in Ohio question her grandson after a crime in which he was left alone? I hope LE brought in someone to question Cassidy what she knew might have been very important.

JMO

O/T I am a UF graduate please don't hit me in the head.hammer

Barbara2

09-27-2008, 04:50 PM

The person who left Cassidy in that situation is the one who put her in danger. NOT Meredith. I guess your granddaughter isn't a big talker, Cassidy seemed quite knowledgable about mommy having Boo-Boo's and how to fix them. She might have known what happened. I have spent alot of time with many 2-3 year olds, and they tell it like it is, if they are verbal.

Meredith did protect her by staying calm and not freaking out and screaming. Didn't a Grandmother in Ohio question her grandson after a crime in which he was left alone? I hope LE brought in someone to question Cassidy what she knew might have been very important.

JMO

O/T I am a UF graduate please don't hit me in the head.hammer

The person who left Cassidy not only alone but motherless is the ONLY person who should be critisized in terms of their behavior regarding the child. (IMO)

O/T Sorry about your loss in a nail biter! I'm not a Gator fan but I feel your pain.

JHP

09-27-2008, 05:03 PM

I agree 100%!

Failure and Cassidy were huge parts of it.

MOO

Swabby

I notice he even got his dog back too.

I think Cassidy was a huge part of it too. Although I'm not sure if she was for J or his family. If someone truly loved their child they would have been outraged at the person who put her in that situation. I haven't seen that from any of his family members. Only upset with NC wanted, when they called J a suspect GMAB.

JMO

JHP

09-27-2008, 05:06 PM

The person who left Cassidy not only alone but motherless is the ONLY person who should be critisized in terms of their behavior regarding the child. (IMO)

O/T Sorry about your loss in a nail biter! I'm not a Gator fan but I feel your pain.

Exactly Barbara2! thank you for understanding my point. And feeling my pain.;)

Cardinal

09-27-2008, 05:20 PM

Barbara2

09-27-2008, 05:28 PM

Yes, he would have to be. And added to that, IF he didn't do it, is losing his wife and his life as he knew it.

But I'm still holding back on the pre-planning. Everything you've listed could have come into play after Jason left the house - IF he killed Michelle.

JMO

The last minute decision to stay the next night at his mom's house came shortly after he left his home on Thursday. (According to his mom's neighbor)

Leaving his hotel with the latch on and/or knowing he wasn't returning had to have been planned before he left the hotel.

Leaving the document on the printer was before he left the house.

Cardinal

09-27-2008, 05:36 PM

The last minute decision to stay the next night at his mom's house came shortly after he left his home on Thursday. (According to his mom's neighbor)

Leaving his hotel with the latch on and/or knowing he wasn't returning had to have been planned before he left the hotel.

Leaving the document on the printer was before he left the house.

The first 2 things are after he left the house. And the document could have been left on the printer for innocent reasons, and then used later to get Meredith to the house.

I could be completely wrong - I know that. But if I were on a jury, looking only at the information we currently have, I would have an easier time of it believing it had not been planned far in advance. The "plan" just isn't good enough for that, imo.

JMO

Barbara2

09-27-2008, 05:41 PM

The first 2 things are after he left the house. And the document could have been left on the printer for innocent reasons, and then used later to get Meredith to the house.

I could be completely wrong - I know that. But if I were on a jury, looking only at the information we currently have, I would have an easier time of it believing it had not been planned far in advance. The "plan" just isn't good enough for that, imo.

JMO

Very few of those plans ever are. That's why the majority get caught. Look at the Scott Peterson case for a great example. IMO

Barbara2

09-27-2008, 05:44 PM

Cardinal

09-27-2008, 05:46 PM

Very few of those plans ever are. That's why the majority get caught. Look at the Scott Peterson case for a great example. IMO

Exactly. Don't you think that if Jason planned this far in advance, as some believe, that he looked at the SP case too?

Wouldn't it have made more sense for him to have set up a fake drive-by or something? He had to know, "alibi" or not, that he would be the first person that LE looked at. He had to know he couldn't prove he was in his room.

JMO

Cardinal

09-27-2008, 05:49 PM

The 'proof' the strangulation came first are MY's fingernail scratches on her neck. After that vicious bludgeoning with a base skull fracture, she would likely be dead. No need for the killer to 'finish' her off with a choke hold.

I don't think the attempted strangulation was to "finish her off". I think she may have been standing for the first blow, which knocked her onto the bed, and the attempted strangulation occurred at that point. The rest of the blows occurred when the strangulation didn't work, imo.

Barbara2

09-27-2008, 05:50 PM

Cardinal

09-27-2008, 05:55 PM

If he did this, I'm not sure it was so much planned as fantasized. I know what I mean but I'm not exactly sure how to explain it.

I understand what you mean. And that could be the explanation. But does fantasy constitute planning? If so, I could be in trouble. :)

Cardinal

09-27-2008, 05:58 PM

Ok, you must consider he knocked 5 of her teeth out of her mouth with that standing blow. IMO she would be so stunned at that point a strangulation would not be a 'failure'.

How do you know the first blow avulsed the teeth? That could have happened after she was on the floor. From a kick, even. The first blow could have been a punch that knocked her onto the bed, but left her fully conscious.

JMO

5swab5

09-27-2008, 06:05 PM

The first 2 things are after he left the house. And the document could have been left on the printer for innocent reasons, and then used later to get Meredith to the house.

I could be completely wrong - I know that. But if I were on a jury, looking only at the information we currently have, I would have an easier time of it believing it had not been planned far in advance. The "plan" just isn't good enough for that, imo.

JMO

Even discounting all the other preparations.

According to the law, premeditation can be accomplished in an instant.

Once the strangulation failed and the beating began, his intent is plain to me.

MOO

Swabby

Cardinal

09-27-2008, 06:07 PM

I don't know.
However, the blows to the head were on the back and side of the head.
The report described a blow to he mouth, breaking her jaw.
That was likely a single blow and likely occurred while she was standing (likely after she escaped the choke hold)

I don't know either. And honestly, talking about it this graphically makes me sick to my stomach.

But maybe no murder weapon was found because she was kicked/stomped to death. It has been known to happen.

JMO

Barbara2

09-27-2008, 06:13 PM

I don't know either. And honestly, talking about it this graphically makes me sick to my stomach.

But maybe no murder weapon was found because she was kicked/stomped to death. It has been known to happen.

JMO

I think there was a murder weapon and it went the way of the bloody clothes.

Cardinal

09-27-2008, 06:31 PM

Based on the autopsy diagrams I saw, Michelle was not "stomped" to death. IMO, there was a murder weapon of some sort.....
Easily disposed of along with the bloody HP shoes and dark pullover.

What on the diagrams makes you say that?

Barbara2

09-27-2008, 06:36 PM

What on the diagrams makes you say that?

My guess based on my own view of the diagrams is the separate and distinct wounds. I think a "stomping" would have blurred those distinctions.

Cardinal

09-27-2008, 06:43 PM

Lets just say a base skull fracture is not happening with a 'kick or stomp' to the head, imo

I'm not arguing with you, because I'm not that familiar with linear skull fractures. Why not?

Because the rest of what I read is bruising, abrasions, lacerations and sharp force characteristics caused by underlying bone fracture.

So, in all sincerity, please explain to me why a kick could not have caused a linear skull fracture.

TIA

Cardinal

09-27-2008, 06:59 PM

I am not a medical professional but I did read that a fracture at the base of the skull is very rare (4% of SF's) and requires a tremendous amount to force to the back of the head. IMO, "stomping" on a head simply is not going to produce the velocity or force needed to produce this type of skull fracture.

I just googled "linear skull fracture":

http://www.emedicinehealth.com/head_injury/article_em.htm

"A linear skull fractures is a simple break in the skull that follows a relatively straight line. It can occur after seemingly minor head injuries (falls, blows such as being struck by a rock, stick, or other object; or from motor vehicle accidents). A linear skull fracture is not a serious injury unless there is an additional injury to the brain itself."

Suppose Michelle's head hit the edge of the nightstand as she went down. Could that cause a linear skull fracture?

Kat4Eagles

09-27-2008, 07:08 PM

Cardinal

09-27-2008, 07:13 PM

Basilar skull fracture is not the same thing.
The linear fracture was on the side of the skull behind her left ear (likely from the blows to the left side of her head above and behind the temple).
The basilar fracture was at the 'base' of the skull...only confirmed when her brain was removed at autopsy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basilar_skull_fracture

Okay, help me please. I have looked at the autopsy report again, and I am simply not seeing a basilar skull fracure. Where is it?
TIA

Kat4Eagles

09-27-2008, 07:17 PM

IIRC, it has been said that there was blood spatter on the bedside lamp and wall. This makes me wonder if the first blow occurred when Michelle was standing beside the bed, and the force of the blow caused her to fall onto the bed. The attempted strangulation could have taken place at that point, as well as other blows, while Michelle bled onto the bed. Then she broke free for a moment, but.......

I hate having those images in my head, so I apologize for putting them in anyone else's head. But I think that's a possibility.

JMO

I think the strangulation was stopped as to prolong death and to make the killing itself last longer.

I think whoever was killing Michelle enjoyed it and didn't want it to be over.

It reminds me of an early theory I made about a goth killing.

It reminds me even more of the Dyleski case.

I am almost certain we are going to find out there was more than 1 person involved.

I think the killing lasted all nite, and if it happened prior to 3 am, and later than 4:30 am, Jason is in the clear.

He would need 5 - 5 1/2 hours to get to Clintwood, maybe a stop at Hillsville at the hotel, dispose of anything incriminating, maybe get gas, coffee, and arrive at his meeting like nothing was wrong.

Good luck thinking Jason did this, and even better luck proving it.

Kat

Barbara2

09-27-2008, 07:23 PM

I don't know where anyone got the idea that multiple nics are allowed just because this is a new system.

If we even think you are using two nics or more and we can prove it somehow they will all be banned. It becomes difficult to match up names as most IP's change all the time.

I was told to create a second account in order to participate in the main Michelle Young forum if and when it reopens because this nic is mistakenly blocked from that board. I can't even see it when I view the main board. So I still have this nic to use when I am here and a new nic to use when the other board opens. I really hope that I'm not going to be banned for that!!

Kat4Eagles

09-27-2008, 07:24 PM

What was visible was the back of her head bashed in. GMAB.:flamemad:

And, her sister didn't see this?

Kat

Kat4Eagles

09-27-2008, 07:27 PM

You have been corrected many times on this but continue to post a misrepresentation. There is no indication that Meredith "thought she fell". She was talking to a small child. It's not like she could come out with the brutal truth and still remain a calming influence to an innocent child.
JMO

Then many other misrepresentations should be cleared up as well, right?

Like the shotgun wedding, or Jason not wanting any financial obligations, when clearly the webpage story about their marriage shows he proposes, and we know he purchased a condo..

Kat

Cardinal

09-27-2008, 07:34 PM

Page 11 shows the 2 linear fractures of the temporal bone
Page 12 shows the fracture at the base of the skull (left side)

I still only see notations of a linear skull fracture, but anatomy was never my best subject. I'll concede.

I'm about to call it a night, but I'll leave the JDIs and the JIIs with this:

SUPPOSE Michelle asked Jason to leave that night. He called his mother as a ruse, to give himself somewhere to go. He got to the hotel and decided, after a phone call, to return home to talk to Michelle. Things got heated, and he hit her, and the situation deteriorated rapidly from there. He never intended to kill her - rage and fear took over. When he realized he had killed her, he did the best he could to cover the situation.

I'm not saying that's what I think, but if Jason goes to trial, and I were his defense attorney, I'd give that scenario some serious thought.

Goodnight, everyone. :seeya:

Kat4Eagles

09-27-2008, 07:34 PM

Don't you supposedly have a 2 year old living with you? What do you think Meredith should have asked her? It wasn't as though Cassidy said "Aunt Meredith there has been a home invasion and I believe someone bludgened my mother to death, she appears to be unconcious"
And Meredith replied did she fall? She was trying to figure out if Cassidy knew what happened.

JMO

Why did she need to find out exatly what happened , especially, in front of C?

Why not determine what type of help she could be, if any, to Michelle and leave the rest to the 911 operator's judgement.?

And, if C did see what happened, and was a witness, then, gosh, let's just make her relive the horror again. Unreal.

Makes no sense.

:confused:

Kat

Barbara2

09-27-2008, 07:36 PM

I still only see notations of a linear skull fracture, but anatomy was never my best subject. I'll concede.

I'm about to call it a night, but I'll leave the JDIs and the JIIs with this:

SUPPOSE Michelle asked Jason to leave that night. He called his mother as a ruse, to give himself somewhere to go. He got to the hotel and decided, after a phone call, to return home to talk to Michelle. Things got heated, and he hit her, and the situation deteriorated rapidly from there. He never intended to kill her - rage and fear took over. When he realized he had killed her, he did the best he could to cover the situation.

I'm not saying that's what I think, but if Jason goes to trial, and I were his defense attorney, I'd give that scenario some serious thought.

Goodnight, everyone. :seeya:

Pre-planned in a court of law means nothing. It's only pre-meditated. IMO

Kat4Eagles

09-27-2008, 07:39 PM

I have always stated there are a lot of possibilities in this unsolved murder.That is why I try to keep an open mind.

Yep, there are, an open door, noises in the woods, people watching through the window, ( re: Shelle) at a time when Jason had to be long gone.

The fact it happened a few days after Halloween, the fact that Jason's car was gone from the driveway where he usually parked it, the fact the house was a little isolated.

The fact that someone may have seen Michelle have company and waited for them to leave, the fact that Michelle may have left Mr G out..so many possibilities.

Kat

Kat4Eagles

09-27-2008, 07:43 PM

I still only see notations of a linear skull fracture, but anatomy was never my best subject. I'll concede.

I'm about to call it a night, but I'll leave the JDIs and the JIIs with this:

SUPPOSE Michelle asked Jason to leave that night. He called his mother as a ruse, to give himself somewhere to go. He got to the hotel and decided, after a phone call, to return home to talk to Michelle. Things got heated, and he hit her, and the situation deteriorated rapidly from there. He never intended to kill her - rage and fear took over. When he realized he had killed her, he did the best he could to cover the situation.

I'm not saying that's what I think, but if Jason goes to trial, and I were his defense attorney, I'd give that scenario some serious thought.

Goodnight, everyone. :seeya:

But, wouldn't Shelle have spoken up sooner if she noticed anything wrong or if Michelle had told her?

Accordingy to early posts, all was fine , and Jason called home during
Grey's Anatomy, and Michelle asked him to call back. when it was over.

:confused:

:seeya: Card.

Kat

Kat4Eagles

09-27-2008, 07:54 PM

Do you think the pillow was taken off the bed? I understood that there was quite a violent struggle in the bedroom, and that Michelle was most likely in bed when she was attacked. Pillows, bedding, and Michelle were probably flying in every direction during the murder.

Exactly.!!..so, you are describing the murder crime scene in the bedroom the way it would have looked when MF got there, and all she can come up with is a ::fall::

Her words, not mine.

I wonder if someday when the actual photos are passed around to Jurors if we ever get there, that they will think a ::fall:: happened too?

Kat

Barbara2

09-27-2008, 07:55 PM

Exactly.!!..so, you are describing the murder crime scene in the bedroom the way it would have looked when MF got there, and all she can come up with is a ::fall::

Her words, not mine.

I wonder if someday when the actual photos are passed around to Jurors if we ever get there, that they will think a ::fall:: happened?

Kat

Actually her words were, "I have no idea", just to be correct.

Kat4Eagles

09-27-2008, 07:57 PM

In that case, there would be footage of him going outside and coming back in. Good to see that, even with your open mind, you're still making excuses for Jason.

There very well may be more video footage of Jason at an earlier or later time.

These photos, stills from the video were probably used for identification purposes and to get the s/w.

Kat

Kat4Eagles

09-27-2008, 08:00 PM

Jason has given an alibi that cannot be verified, so it's not worth much at this time.

It's not worth much?

This Thursay will make 23 months this "alibi" has held.

I would say it is worth plenty.

:)

Kat

Kat4Eagles

09-27-2008, 08:04 PM

Actually her words were, "I have no idea", just to be correct.

She should have known from the minute she entered the home, from the dog barking, to seeing the condition of the room , the blood, the body, the struggle that took place, anything and everything that was out of place, that something bad happened.

Good thing that no one was still there, she may have been a victim too.

If you walk into a room that looks like that, or you have been robbed, you are told not to go inside.

You grab C and leave.

Period.

Kat

Kat4Eagles

09-27-2008, 08:11 PM

I believe that they hadn't really been getting along for some time. Could be Michelle Money, could be anything, maybe Jason wanted to know why she was going to a therapist...I just don't know.

But, I do believe that he knew that the end was near, and like Scott Peterson, didn't want that child support, alimony or a divorce to tarnish his image.

MOO

Swabby

So, instead of paying child support or alimony, let's go to jail where we can make .18 cents a day*

:shrug:
* based on Rae Carruth's janitor salary

And instead of tarnishing our image as a divorced man, let's be a man on death row.

:shrug:

Kat

Barbara2

09-27-2008, 08:11 PM

She should have known from the minute she entered the home, from the dog barking, to seeing the condition of the room , the blood, the body, the struggle that took place, anything and everything that was out of place, that something bad happened.

Good thing that no one was still there, she may have been a victim too.

If you walk into a room that looks like that, or you have been robbed, you are told not to go inside.

You grab C and leave.

Period.

Kat

Known that her sister had been murdered???? That's not what she was expecting when she walked into the house. I'm sure most normal people would be in some stage of shock in a situation like that. She had been sent there by her brother in law on a fluke and I'm sure she was disoriented by what she had to experience. I don't think grabbing C, running and screaming from the house would have helped much at that point. JMO

Kat4Eagles

09-27-2008, 08:13 PM

I agree with your first thought, but disagree with your second one. I don't think Jason would have wanted his marriage to end because he wouldn't want to appear to have failed, and because he wouldn't have wanted to be separated from Cassidy.

JMO

Card, if Jason were caught and sent to Death Row , he would be separated from C forever.

And, she would hate him.
And, so would everyone else.

But, that is not the case.

Kat

Jules2

09-27-2008, 08:15 PM

Kat4Eagles

09-27-2008, 08:16 PM

Known that her sister had been murdered???? That's not what she was expecting when she walked into the house. I'm sure most normal people would be in some stage of shock in a situation like that. She had been sent there by her brother in law on a fluke and I'm sure she was disoriented by what she had to experience. I don't think grabbing C, running and screaming from the house would have helped much at that point. JMO

I wonder when L E arrived, if they did not, at some point, draw their guns, or check out the premises, before determining what was safe.

I wonder how fast they ushered MF and C out of the home!!!!!!!!

Kat

Jules2

09-27-2008, 08:16 PM

Card, if Jason were caught and sent to Death Row , he would be separated from C forever.

And, she would hate him.
And, so would everyone else.

But, that is not the case.

Kat

Murderers always think they will never get caught.

IMO

Kat4Eagles

09-27-2008, 08:17 PM

If I walked in to a room where my only sister is found covered in blood, no matter what condition the place is in or what the Proper Way To React When Coming Upon A Crime Scene manual says, I would NOT leave her. No matter what.

Period.

Then you do know, that if the killer was still there, you could end up dead too.?

Wow.

Kat

urseen

09-27-2008, 08:18 PM

She should have known from the minute she entered the home, from the dog barking, to seeing the condition of the room , the blood, the body, the struggle that took place, anything and everything that was out of place, that something bad happened.

Good thing that no one was still there, she may have been a victim too.

If you walk into a room that looks like that, or you have been robbed, you are told not to go inside.

You grab C and leave.

Period.

Kat

Kat when the poor people that were victims in the Twin towers saw flames shooting all around them do you think they thought a jet hit the building? No . Many thought there was a terrible explosion from a bomb Do you think they realized right away a jet crashed? I think many died not realizing this
Meredith arrived at the home doing a favor for Jason. Even when walking into a bloody room why would she think of murder? A terrible accident, yes and I'm sure she was plenty confused to how and what was happening You beleive she should have known it was a murder simply because you are already aware of the fact but she wasn't
I think it started to sink in that a murder had occured a few minutes into talking with the 911 operator IMO

Kat4Eagles

09-27-2008, 08:19 PM

The first 2 things are after he left the house. And the document could have been left on the printer for innocent reasons, and then used later to get Meredith to the house.

I could be completely wrong - I know that. But if I were on a jury, looking only at the information we currently have, I would have an easier time of it believing it had not been planned far in advance. The "plan" just isn't good enough for that, imo.

JMO

The plan is so bad, that for it to have held up this long, is something I always question.

What plan??

Kat

Barbara2

09-27-2008, 08:20 PM

I wonder when L E arrived, if they did not, at some point, draw their guns, or check out the premises, before determining what was safe.

I wonder how fast they ushered MF and C out of the home!!!!!!!!

Kat

What's your point? That MF should have watched a few more episodes of "Cops" and instinctively drawn her gun or instinctively run from the house?

Jules2

09-27-2008, 08:21 PM

So, instead of paying child support or alimony, let's go to jail where we can make .18 cents a day*

:shrug:
* based on Rae Carruth's janitor salary

And instead of tarnishing our image as a divorced man, let's be a man on death row.

:shrug:

Kat

Look at how many husbands have murdered their wives. And they all thought they'd get away with it. The sad thing is, that there are probably many spouses who HAVE gotten away with murder with the cases going unsolved. Then again....some eventually get caught even after many many years.

IMO

Kat4Eagles

09-27-2008, 08:23 PM

Kat when the poor people that were victims in the Twin towers saw flames shooting all around them do you think they thought a jet hit the building? No . Many thought there was a terrible explosion from a bomb Do you think they realized right away a jet crashed? I think many died not realizing this
Meredith arrived at the home doing a favor for Jason. Even when walking into a bloody room why would she think of murder? A terrible accident, yes and I'm sure she was plenty confused to how and what was happening You beleive she should have known it was a murder simply because you are already aware of the fact but she wasn't
I think it started to sink in that a murder had occured a few minutes into talking with the 911 operator IMO

I agree with some of this and the way you explained it,thank you, btw, but, we are not talking a plane hitting Michelle's home, although I bet it looked like it.

I am going by what the seasoned hard core investigators who came on the scene, and the words that they used.

Bloody, horrific and one of the most gruesome murder scenes ever.

Ever.

That is why I have so much trouble reconciling what her sister said.

It just does not match.

Kat

Jules2

09-27-2008, 08:25 PM

Then you do know, that if the killer was still there, you could end up dead too.?

Wow.

Kat

Sorry,Kat....but I'd risk my own life for my only sister. That's just the way it is.

I know it's rather shocking to you......but some people actually put others before themselves.

urseen

09-27-2008, 08:28 PM

Kat4Eagles

09-27-2008, 08:29 PM

I don't know either. And honestly, talking about it this graphically makes me sick to my stomach.

But maybe no murder weapon was found because she was kicked/stomped to death. It has been known to happen.

JMO

I still can not figure out how someone could leave foot prints on a pillow?
Who walks on a pillow?
Even if it is on the floor?

Kat

Kat4Eagles

09-27-2008, 08:33 PM

Sorry,Kat....but I'd risk my own life for my only sister. That's just the way it is.

<snipped>
.

Even cops cover for each other's safety, but they are trained.

Was Michelle's sister trained for such?

And, with a child at the scene and possibly still in danger?

:shrug:

Kat

Barbara2

09-27-2008, 08:35 PM

Even cops cover for each other's safety, but they are trained.

Was Michelle's sister trained for such?

And, with a child at the scene and possibly still in danger?

:shrug:

Kat

It seems that Michelle's sister instinctively knew that she and Cassidy were not in danger.

It seems her instinct was correct.

End of story.

Jules2

09-27-2008, 08:38 PM

Even cops cover for each other's safety, but they are trained.

Was Michelle's sister trained for such?

And, with a child at the scene and possibly still in danger?

:shrug:

Kat

I don't need any training when it comes to my sister or what I would do if ever in the same horrible circumstance.

We all know now that Michelle was murdered. Although it is quite possible that it was the last thing on Meredith's mind when she found her. No matter how bloody the scene was. Have you ever witnessed the amount of blood present at a suicide scene? I'm not insinuating that Michelle was suicidal, but perhaps Meredith was NOT thinking murder when she came upon her sister's body.

IMO

urseen

09-27-2008, 08:39 PM

I still can not figure out how someone could leave foot prints on a pillow?
Who walks on a pillow?
Even if it is on the floor?

Kat

Maybe a murderer who was in a panic? Maybe thinking it wasn't supposed to happen this way. Stepping over the pillow checking if she is really dead? Trying to take a closer look to see if she was breathing?
:shrug:

Kat4Eagles

09-27-2008, 08:43 PM

Then what did she have to gain by not immediately acknowledging Michelle was murdered?

This is another one of those discussions that could go on forever.

I am not trying to convince you that her actions were wrong, as much as I think they do not make sense with what we know.

Had she walked into a home and the crime scene was not described by LE as it was, then I wouldn't have any trouble with her asking C if her Mommy fell.

It is because of what we know, that it does not make sense.

To me.

If it makes sense to you, and you can explain it , then fine.

Kat

annalyzer

09-27-2008, 08:45 PM

OMG

:lol:

Not so funny. You'd think the murderer would be aware of the possibility of leaving shoe prints, aware enough to not step on a pillow at least. But this killer left not one but two different shoe prints on a pillow.

Kat4Eagles

09-27-2008, 08:47 PM

It seems that Michelle's sister instinctively knew that she and Cassidy were not in danger.

It seems her instinct was correct.

End of story.

You do realize what you just posted.

How could she possibly know she was safe??

Kat

Jules2

09-27-2008, 08:47 PM

Maybe a murderer who was in a panic? Maybe thinking it wasn't supposed to happen this way. Stepping over the pillow checking if she is really dead? Trying to take a closer look to see if she was breathing?
:shrug:

I agree, and since her body was found in a rather tight space, it could be very possible that pillows had fallen off the bed during the initial struggle and landed in that same small area between the bed and wall and the murderer had no choice but to step on them while he delivered the final blows. He may have even tried to kick or push them out of the way with the sole of his shoe. I guess only the killer would really know how his print ended up on a pillow. But it is very possible and almost laughable to think no one would ever step on a pillow.

IMO

JHP

09-27-2008, 08:47 PM

Yep, there are, an open door, noises in the woods, people watching through the window, ( re: Shelle) at a time when Jason had to be long gone.

The fact it happened a few days after Halloween, the fact that Jason's car was gone from the driveway where he usually parked it, the fact the house was a little isolated.

The fact that someone may have seen Michelle have company and waited for them to leave, the fact that Michelle may have left Mr G out..so many possibilities.

Kat

Is this a rumor or did Shelle have an interview with someone about being watched? Did LE state this? Because I think if that were actually true and Michelle was concerned she would have asked Shelle to stay with her, or called her sister to come over. Even if it was after work.

Barbara2

09-27-2008, 08:49 PM

You do realize what you just posted.

How could she possibly know she was safe??

Kat

How could she possibly know she wasn't safe?? :shrug:

annalyzer

09-27-2008, 08:49 PM

snip~ We all know now that Michelle was murdered. Although it is quite possible that it was the last thing on Meredith's mind when she found her. No matter how bloody the scene was. Have you ever witnessed the amount of blood present at a suicide scene? I'm not insinuating that Michelle was suicidal, but perhaps Meredith was NOT thinking murder when she came upon her sister's body.

IMO

Excellent point.

urseen

09-27-2008, 08:50 PM

Not so funny. You'd think the murderer would be aware of the possibility of leaving shoe prints, aware enough to not step on a pillow at least. But this killer left not one but two different shoe prints on a pillow.

So you believe these prints were visible to the naked eye? I'm not sure about that

Kat4Eagles

09-27-2008, 08:51 PM

How could she possibly know she wasn't safe?? :shrug:

So.............
Did she look around?
Check other rooms?

Hmm..strange, that you say she "knew" she was safe, but did have the same instinct to know her sister was dead, murdered.

Hmmm...

Kat

lilismom

09-27-2008, 08:52 PM

Exactly. Don't you think that if Jason planned this far in advance, as some believe, that he looked at the SP case too?

Wouldn't it have made more sense for him to have set up a fake drive-by or something? He had to know, "alibi" or not, that he would be the first person that LE looked at. He had to know he couldn't prove he was in his room.

JMO

Evening all.

This has me scratching my head, yet again.

Was the midnight desk appearance to be seen on video really? Did he even think about the cameras at all? Why not make a call to the front desk at around midnight from INSIDE the room for towels or a blanket or a pillow where you've already used your keycard to enter. In your room, locked up tight for the night right? No, he goes down to the desk for someone unknown reason (to be seen on camera or not), props the door (maybe) and then there is no record of a re-entry into his room with his keycard. Why not make your presence known from inside the room? Instead he's outside the room at midnight ever recorded re-entering. Maybe he really wasn't aware of the cameras.

Still doesn't explain the wardrobe change and the rock in the door but I'm typing out loud trying to figure out the plan for the night. Stay in room and call or go out to desk and never have my entrace back into the room recorded. If I call, at least I'm IN the room at midnight and then I can say, when seen on camera in the hallway, that I propped the door to run to get ice/soda/chips, and yes, in different clothes and shoes, prove that wasn't what I did! But if I'm out of the room wandering down to the desk and what not, it gets harder to believe my propped door story because I'm out of my room too long. Hmmm....

Rambling I know...forgive me.

IMO,
Lilismom

Jules2

09-27-2008, 08:54 PM

This is another one of those discussions that could go on forever.

I am not trying to convince you that her actions were wrong, as much as I think they do not make sense with what we know.

Had she walked into a home and the crime scene was not described by LE as it was, then I wouldn't have any trouble with her asking C if her Mommy fell.

It is because of what we know, that it does not make sense.

To me.

If it makes sense to you, and you can explain it , then fine.

Kat

I think Meredith's choice of words when speaking to Cassidy were very appropriate for a child her age. Perhaps by asking her if mommy fell, Cassidy might have provided some valuable information. What was she supposed to ask her? "Cassidy, honey, do you know who bludgeoned mommy to death?"

I don't mean to be disrespectful to Michelle in any way by posing that question, but I believe Meredith was sensitive to a young child's grasp of the English language and the situation at hand, and the word "fall" is one a child would be able to understand and elaborate on.

Kat4Eagles

09-27-2008, 08:54 PM

Is this a rumor or did Shelle have an interview with someone about being watched? Did LE state this? Because I think if that were actually true and Michelle was concerned she would have asked Shelle to stay with her, or called her sister to come over. Even if it was after work.

It was posted here.

I wish she had asked someone to stay with her.

I wish the alarm had been activated.

:(

Kat

Barbara2

09-27-2008, 08:54 PM

So.............
Did she look around?
Check other rooms?

Hmm..strange, that you say she "knew" she was safe, but did have the same instinct to know her sister was dead, murdered.

Hmmm...

Kat

I'm not saying that she knew she was safe. I'm saying that she would not have been thinking, "I'll bet she's been murdered" when she walked into that house. That would not be a normal person's first thought, IMO. She may not have even realized that she could have possibly been in danger until after the police arrived and secured it as a CRIME SCENE.

JHP

09-27-2008, 08:54 PM

Evening all.

This has me scratching my head, yet again.

Was the midnight desk appearance to be seen on video really? Did he even think about the cameras at all? Why not make a call to the front desk at around midnight from INSIDE the room for towels or a blanket or a pillow where you've already used your keycard to enter. In your room, locked up tight for the night right? No, he goes down to the desk for someone unknown reason (to be seen on camera or not), props the door (maybe) and then there is no record of a re-entry into his room with his keycard. Why not make your presence known from inside the room? Instead he's outside the room at midnight ever recorded re-entering. Maybe he really wasn't aware of the cameras.

Still doesn't explain the wardrobe change and the rock in the door but I'm typing out loud trying to figure out the plan for the night. Stay in room and call or go out to desk and never have my entrace back into the room recorded. If I call, at least I'm IN the room at midnight and then I can say, when seen on camera in the hallway, that I propped the door to run to get ice/soda/chips, and yes, in different clothes and shoes, prove that wasn't what I did! But if I'm out of the room wandering down to the desk and what not, it gets harder to believe my propped door story because I'm out of my room too long. Hmmm....

Rambling I know...forgive me.

IMO,
Lilismom

I think he was picking up his receipt with the check out date on it.

JMO

JHP

09-27-2008, 08:57 PM

It was posted here.

I wish she had asked someone to stay with her.

I wish the alarm had been activated.

:(

Kat

I was thinking it would have been nice if she went to her sisters to sleep too.

JMO

Kat4Eagles

09-27-2008, 08:57 PM

Evening all.

This has me scratching my head, yet again.

Was the midnight desk appearance to be seen on video really? Did he even think about the cameras at all? Why not make a call to the front desk at around midnight from INSIDE the room for towels or a blanket or a pillow where you've already used your keycard to enter. In your room, locked up tight for the night right? No, he goes down to the desk for someone unknown reason (to be seen on camera or not), props the door (maybe) and then there is no record of a re-entry into his room with his keycard. Why not make your presence known from inside the room? Instead he's outside the room at midnight ever recorded re-entering. Maybe he really wasn't aware of the cameras.

Still doesn't explain the wardrobe change and the rock in the door but I'm typing out loud trying to figure out the plan for the night. Stay in room and call or go out to desk and never have my entrace back into the room recorded. If I call, at least I'm IN the room at midnight and then I can say, when seen on camera in the hallway, that I propped the door to run to get ice/soda/chips, and yes, in different clothes and shoes, prove that wasn't what I did! But if I'm out of the room wandering down to the desk and what not, it gets harder to believe my propped door story because I'm out of my room too long. Hmmm....

Rambling I know...forgive me.

IMO,
Lilismom

Evening LM..

I don't know what Jason knew about the videos, but they are everywhere you go now.

Kat

Kat4Eagles

09-27-2008, 09:01 PM

So you believe these prints were visible to the naked eye? I'm not sure about that

I'm not either, but to get 2 different prints from 2 different shoes , not just 1, seems strange.

I wish we knew the placement of the pillow.

Kat

Kat4Eagles

09-27-2008, 09:04 PM

I was thinking it would have been nice if she went to her sisters to sleep too.

JMO

In retrospect, I am sure a lot of Michelle's friends would have offered, but Michelle did not seem like the type who would scare easily being left alone at nite. She had Mr. G and C.

Was her sister invited over to watch GA too?

Kat

lilismom

09-27-2008, 09:10 PM

I agree with some of this and the way you explained it,thank you, btw, but, we are not talking a plane hitting Michelle's home, although I bet it looked like it.

I am going by what the seasoned hard core investigators who came on the scene, and the words that they used.

Bloody, horrific and one of the most gruesome murder scenes ever.

Ever.

That is why I have so much trouble reconciling what her sister said.

It just does not match.

Kat

I have wondered this before. Who said "one of the most gruesome murder scenes ever". Seasoned cops who, sadly, have seen more than their fair share of murder scenes or a rookie, a first timer? I'm not saying it wasn't the most gruesome scene ever, I just wonder who said that. In who's opinion?

I know this is gross but it helps get my point across. I can watch a child throw up and be completely unaffected by it, even help clean it and the child up because my DD has thrown up so much. Some people would leave the room.

Am I making any sense?

IMO,
Lilismom

tpw

09-27-2008, 09:12 PM

I'm not either, but to get 2 different prints from 2 different shoes , not just 1, seems strange.

I wish we knew the placement of the pillow.

Kat

How about one set of prints came from the shoes worn when the actual murder was committed, and the second set of prints from the pair of shoes he wore when he returned to her body to make sure she was dead ?

Also I think we're thinking of the prints as if they were a 'stamp' on a blank pillow case ; perhaps there was so much blood on the pillow , that the murderer did not notice the 'imprints' left by his shoes.What was that special machine brought into the house for ?? Anyone know yet ??

lilismom

09-27-2008, 09:13 PM

In retrospect, I am sure a lot of Michelle's friends would have offered, but Michelle did not seem like the type who would scare easily being left alone at nite. She had Mr. G and C.

Was her sister invited over to watch GA too?

Kat

Maybe she was. Maybe she wasn't. Maybe she was working. Maybe when you're young and single you don't want to be in watching GA. Maybe GA wasn't her bag. I've never watched one episode.

IMO,
Lilismom

JHP

09-27-2008, 09:14 PM

In retrospect, I am sure a lot of Michelle's friends would have offered, but Michelle did not seem like the type who would scare easily being left alone at nite. She had Mr. G and C.

Was her sister invited over to watch GA too?

Kat

This is why I have trouble with the being watched story. Because if the GA friend had felt like she was being watched also, I think other arrangements would have been made. Thats why I was wondering if that was a rumor.

I think because she had Cassidy it would be all the more reason to be concerned if someone was watching.

jmo

lilismom

09-27-2008, 09:17 PM

How about one set of prints came from the shoes worn when the actual murder was committed, and the second set of prints from the pair of shoes he wore when he returned to her body to make sure she was dead ?

Also I think we're thinking of the prints as if they were a 'stamp' on a blank pillow case ; perhaps there was so much blood on the pillow , that the murderer did not notice the 'imprints' left by his shoes.What was that special machine brought into the house for ?? Anyone know yet ??

Coulda been an "almost step" that barely touched the pillow. But it did. Damn. Now what do I do? I know, get out those old "clean up" shoes and make another print to make LE think there were two people here. Or, maybe there were.

Has to be other prints or the pillow would have been taken. Makes no sense to have something else to have to get rid of when the prints are other places too.

Wonder if there is more than one Franklin print?

IMO,
Lilismom

Barbara2

09-27-2008, 09:19 PM

This is why I have trouble with the being watched story. Because if the GA friend had felt like she was being watched also, I think other arrangements would have been made. Thats why I was wondering if that was a rumor.

I think because she had Cassidy it would be all the more reason to be concerned if someone was watching.

jmo

I've always thought that it was a feeling based on the fact that there were no curtains on the big window in that room. I remember when we moved into a new house years ago, we did not have curtains on the windows yet and I had friends over. We felt like we were being watched. (Of course goofy husband came home and banged on the window and scared us to death, but it seems he was the only one who saw us through the window.)

lilismom

09-27-2008, 09:22 PM

I think he was picking up his receipt with the check out date on it.

JMO

Which was found in the truck right? Makes me wonder why he would leave definite proof of where he was, which in the short time frame it took LE to get there could be verified on video and would be fresh in the minds of the employees. Why not make them guess? Why not make them search harder? Why lead them right there if you knew you were seen on video exiting or near the exit and in different clothes AND left no record of re-entry into your room after midnight?

IMO,
Lilismom

Barbara2

09-27-2008, 09:24 PM

Which was found in the truck right? Makes me wonder why he would leave definite proof of where he was, which in the short time frame it took LE to get there could be verified on video and would be fresh in the minds of the employees. Why not make them guess? Why not make them search harder? Why lead them right there if you knew you were seen on video exiting or near the exit and in different clothes AND left no record of re-entry into your room after midnight?

IMO,
Lilismom

Shades of Scott Peterson (if you followed that case) with the receipt from the marina.

lilismom

09-27-2008, 09:32 PM

It is because of what we know, that it does not make sense.
To me.
Kat[/QUOTE]

SNIPPED.

Key. What WE know. Meredith knew nothing. What's that saying?Hindsight is 20/20? Monday morning quarterbacking? All Meredith knew when she went there that day was that she was doing a favor for her BIL and ultimately for her sister. Not ruining the surprise. Maybe she was a hysterical mess when LE arrived? Maybe she has nightmares about that day often? Bet she has trouble ridding her mind of that horrible scene. Doubt she ever will. Maybe after the fact she said to LE "what the heck was I thinking, I should have just gotten the heck outta there with C" and they said "you weren't thinking straight, how could you have been". Maybe.

IMO,
Lilismom

lilismom

09-27-2008, 09:34 PM

Shades of Scott Peterson (if you followed that case) with the receipt from the marina.

I did. I think of Laci often. I was pregnant at the same time. :(

IMO,
Lilismom

Jules2

09-27-2008, 09:36 PM

Do you honestly think he realized the cameras recorded ?
If he did, he is dumber than he looks.

I agree, Brooklyn. He probably thought that the cameras only recorded live activity that could be watched on a monitor by the front desk personnel.

lilismom

09-27-2008, 09:36 PM

Do you honestly think he realized the cameras recorded ?
If he did, he is dumber than he looks.

That is exactly what has me scratching my head tonight. Was the front desk visit to be seen on video or to get the receipt? If to be seen on video, how did he not know there were cameras in other places? Specifically near the entrances and exits?

:shrug:

IMO,
Lilismom

lilismom

09-27-2008, 09:40 PM

IIRC it was the sheriff who said that.

I knew he said it at some point but was he first on the scene? Was he just repeating it? Was this REALLY the worst crime scene ever? I'm not saying it wasn't and thank god I didn't see it but why was that even said? To make sure every one knows just how much the perp HATED the victim?

I'm probably not making any sense. I'll just drop it.

IMO,
Lilismom

Barbara2

09-27-2008, 09:41 PM

There was no blood in Jason's vehicle. Either he wasn't wearing either pair of shoes that left the prints or he changed shoes atleast 3 times.

Or by the time he got in his car all of the blood had been wiped from his shoes by the carpet, wet grass, concrete, whatever. IMO

lilismom

09-27-2008, 09:41 PM

There was no blood in Jason's vehicle. Either he wasn't wearing either pair of shoes that left the prints or he changed shoes atleast 3 times.

Why is that so hard to believe? He lived there and now two pair have Michelle's blood on them. He didn't have to put the second pair on to make a print.

IMO,
Lilismom

lilismom

09-27-2008, 09:48 PM

I think he wanted people to know that our first responders have emotions or maybe convey that only a monster would leave a little one alone like that.

I think that's my point. Some want to string Meredith up for not knowing what went on and not knowing that a brutal murder took place by using LE's words against her. I just don't think that's fair.

IMO,
Lilismom

Jules2

09-27-2008, 09:48 PM

Or by the time he got in his car all of the blood had been wiped from his shoes by the carpet, wet grass, concrete, whatever. IMO

Or removed in the bedroom and then placed in a garbage bag retrieved from the kitchen. He probably left in his stocking feet and had the shoes he was seen wearing when he arrived at his mother's in he car.

No one knows what he may have packed in his vehicle prior to leaving that night. He could have tossed in the shoes he wore during the murder and slipped them on before entering the house.

Pull in the drive. Remove shoes. Slip on two different shoes. Murder your wife. Remove shoes and place in bag with murder weapon. Re-enter vehicle and put the original shoes you took off, back on again. Toss bag.

IMO

lilismom

09-27-2008, 09:50 PM

I agree with you. I think it really was truly awful.

I don't disagree. I'm sure it was awful. See my post above.

IMO,
Lilismom

Kat4Eagles

09-27-2008, 09:54 PM

I have wondered this before. Who said "one of the most gruesome murder scenes ever". Seasoned cops who, sadly, have seen more than their fair share of murder scenes or a rookie, a first timer? I'm not saying it wasn't the most gruesome scene ever, I just wonder who said that. In who's opinion?

I know this is gross but it helps get my point across. I can watch a child throw up and be completely unaffected by it, even help clean it and the child up because my DD has thrown up so much. Some people would leave the room.

Am I making any sense?

IMO,
Lilismom

LM, you always ask if you are making sense, and you always crack me up. :biggrin:

You make as much sense as the rest of us!!

Don't worry about your posts, you are fine!!

:)

Kat

lilismom

09-27-2008, 09:58 PM

If he'd stepped in blood then got in his truck there would have been traces of it from all that I've ever read.

Huh? 2 pairs of his shoes have Michelle's blood on them? The warrant doesn't say they were Jason's shoe prints. The word similar was used for a reason. If they matched they would have said matched.

Did I say they were Jason's shoes? Maybe I'm getting tired. I'm thinking that both the HP and the Franklin shoe had Michelle's blood on them no matter who they belonged to. I think he only changed once. Out of the HP's (that there is a record of them purchasing) and into different shoes taken from the closet. Technically, he didn't have to put the Franklin shoe on to make the print.

Wonder what type of shoes were found on him the next day? Two pairs of dress shoes you would wear with a suit? Sneakers and dress shoes? Some other casual shoe?

IMO,
Lilismom

Kat4Eagles

09-27-2008, 10:04 PM

I agree with you. I think it really was truly awful.

Okay, let's pretend for the sake of argument,that the crime scene photos have just been released and everyone of us here now has a copy of them in front of us.

First, we are going to argue about what if anything determines if the home looks safe to enter.

What if some things downstairs were disturbed before MF ever gets to the bedroom.?

We KNOW from her words that the dog is freaking out, and that Michelle's car is there, but it is not supposed to be.

Red flag 1 and 2, are there others?

Then we go into the bedroom and see for ourselves, not second hand, but we get to see the crime scene exactly as MF did.

Would we all still react differently as to what we would do?

Or once you saw the scene and if it was horrible, would you change your mind?

Kat

lilismom

09-27-2008, 10:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilismom
Why is that so hard to believe? He lived there and now two pair have Michelle's blood on them. He didn't have to put the second pair on to make a print.

IMO,
Lilismom

From the wording of your post it read like you were saying 2 pairs of his shoes had her blood on them.

We know they purchased HP's. Notice I didn't say THE HP's. The Frankin is indeed a mystery.

IMO,
Lilismom

Barbara2

09-27-2008, 10:11 PM

Okay, let's pretend for the sake of argument,that the crime scene photos have just been released and everyone of us here now has a copy of them in front of us.

First, we are going to argue about what if anything determines if the home looks safe to enter.

<snipped>

Kat

It doesn't matter. It has nothing to do with the crime. Maybe she should have realized that a crime had been committed. Maybe she should not have gone into shock. Maybe she should have been a seasoned professional and responded as such. But she didn't. She responded like a human being who was presented with a completely unreal situation and responded in a manner that the 20/20 hindsight posters critisize as "the wrong way to do it". It's over and can't be changed but it has zero to do with the murder. IMO.

lilismom

09-27-2008, 10:11 PM

welcome to my corner. Wish there were more of us.

Random then? Or do you have someone else in mind? Care to share?

Honestly, I wish someone else did this. It is too sickening to think that a child's father (or aunt if you think it was Meredith) would kill Michelle and then leave CY alone with mommy who wouldn't wake up.

Sickening.

IMO,
Lilismom

Kat4Eagles

09-27-2008, 10:13 PM

How about one set of prints came from the shoes worn when the actual murder was committed, and the second set of prints from the pair of shoes he wore when he returned to her body to make sure she was dead ?

Also I think we're thinking of the prints as if they were a 'stamp' on a blank pillow case ; perhaps there was so much blood on the pillow , that the murderer did not notice the 'imprints' left by his shoes.What was that special machine brought into the house for ?? Anyone know yet ??

How about after hitting someone 20-25 times and knocking their teeth out, do you still need to see if they are dead?

This sounds awful, I know.

But, if the killer really wanted her dead, one good blow would have done it..

I am not sure about the special machine, but I know they had the crime scene for close to 2 weeks.

Kat

urseen

09-27-2008, 10:17 PM

lilismom

09-27-2008, 10:26 PM

I'm not sure Michelle's car being home would be much of a red flag to her sister. Haven't heard that the downstairs was disturbed. Michelle did live there and could be many reasons she was home such as becoming ill at work or little one become ill and babysitter asked to come pick up. Maybe Meredith went inside worried because her sister had a history of miscarriage and that drove her thoughts and actions.

If I had been in Meredith's shoes and had arrived on a secret mission to protect a surprise and saw the car, I doubt I'd even go inside. I'd phone her husband and tell him "oops, too late" and leave it at that.

Right and maybe the dog just hadda GO BAD! Probably would have called him and said "sorry, I went by there, she's home, her car is there, maybe she called in sick, I'm didn't go in, she's probably already seen it anyway". Wonder what he would have said then? No no no, go back and check? Would he even have answered the phone?

But she went in. Probably calling Michelle's name and thinking, great, now I gotta 1. come up with a reason for being here when I thought she wouldn't be and didn't call ahead (keeping the surprise and all) to know she was home sick or ____ and 2. find a way to get upstairs and get the darn paper.

I'm glad she did or CY may have been there even LONGER with her mommy who she couldn't get to wake up.

IMO,
Lilismom

lilismom

09-27-2008, 10:32 PM

And which was supposed to protect Michelle, the old dog, Mr. G, or the toddler, Cassidy? Michelle was the protector in that house that night.

Right to the end. Amen.

Goodnight all.

IMO,
Lilismom

Barbara2

09-27-2008, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by Whitmore
Who said the hush puppies were his change of shoes ??????

1- He killed her wearing the HP's
2- He briefly changed into the Franklin's to clean up
3- Placed both pair with bloody clothes and weapon in a garbage bag
3- He then changed into a 3rd pair from the closet ...possibly found
in his luggage when he returned

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=340238&page=14

The original post is gone since the poster was apparently banned but you can see his quoted post, as well as others, on the last thread. It's not hard to find. :rolleyes:

It really doesn't matter because you can't prove he was in the home or changed shoes even once let alone the 3 times that some have tried to throw around.

That post you quoted still only shows two changes. He was already wearing the one pair. Three changes would involve four pairs of shoes.

Jules2

09-27-2008, 10:35 PM

Okay, let's pretend for the sake of argument,that the crime scene photos have just been released and everyone of us here now has a copy of them in front of us.

First, we are going to argue about what if anything determines if the home looks safe to enter.

What if some things downstairs were disturbed before MF ever gets to the bedroom.?

We KNOW from her words that the dog is freaking out, and that Michelle's car is there, but it is not supposed to be.

Red flag 1 and 2, are there others?

Then we go into the bedroom and see for ourselves, not second hand, but we get to see the crime scene exactly as MF did.

Would we all still react differently as to what we would do?

Or once you saw the scene and if it was horrible, would you change your mind?

Kat

If I was Meredith.....

First of all, I don't see another vehicle in the drive suggesting someone else is there yet I see hers in the garage so I find that odd. Second, the dog freaking out might mean pacing and acting anxious or even trying to get me to go directly to Michelle. The dog isn't however growling or acting defensive towards a possible intruder. I walk through the first floor sensing that something it not quite right. Is my sister home sick today? Why is her car here? Why isn't she answering me as I walk through every room on the first floor looking for her. Things just look "out of place", not like they normally do but I didn't come upon an intruder while I was looking ( didn't expect to either) so still no need to be frightened....baffled yes, but not frightened.

I continue to call for my sister. I get no response, but I can hear my niece upstairs either walking around or chattering or even calling out my name.

I go upstairs and notice my niece and footprints on the carpet and I also notice her feet have something red on them. Perhaps the last thing I am thinking is blood. Did she get into finger paints? Did she walk in catsup?

I continue to call for my sister and enter her bedroom to check for her there. I notice the bed is a mess. Furniture is tossed about. Pillows are on the floor. Now I see blood on the bed. My sister is pregnant. Did she have a miscarriage? Now I am really worried but still not frightened for my safety. I am ONLY thinking of my sister and completely baffled and confuse by what I am seeing. I go further in to the room to eventually find my sister laying on the floor between the bed and the wall and there is blood everywhere around her. I call out her name. I am now frightened half out of my mind, but not for myself. I am frightened for my sister.

I grab the cordless phone and call 911.

As horrific as the scene may appear to be, I am not thinking murder at this point. Not in this quiet safe neighborhood. And the fact that I have looked in just about every room and wasn't attacked by anyone, and also finding my niece wandering around by herself apparently unharmed doesn't even put that thought in to my head.

IMO

Barbara2

09-27-2008, 10:37 PM

If Jason was in on the murder, he'd just find another ruse to get Meredith over there. I'm not sure if he was in on it but don't believe he was present. I think he really did stay in VA.

I'd like to know where CY was when Meredith found her and how much blood, if any she had on her. She had to have some on her after all that time unless she wasn't in the room. Meredith didn't mention any condition or details about her on the call and I've wondered if she was locked up somewhere along with the dog and that's why the dog was freaking out.

I've wondered about that too; where CY was and where the dog was and if the dog was locked up away from CY. I know that my dogs are instinctively protective of little ones. It's uncanny to me that they can sense that a baby is in need of protection. I would think that a dog who was the family dog of the child would be even more protective.

Barbara2

09-27-2008, 10:40 PM

If I was Meredith.....

<snipped only for space>

As horrific as the scene may appear to be, I am not thinking murder at this point. Not in this quiet safe neighborhood. And the fact that I have looked in just about every room and wasn't attacked by anyone, and also finding my niece wandering around by herself apparently unharmed doesn't even put that thought in to my head.

IMO

Excellent synopsis!!

Barbara2

09-27-2008, 10:44 PM

My mistake for assuming JDI's would understand that meant 3 pairs of shoes and need to make an issue of it. :rolleyes:

It's a matter of you making a mistake in posting. It has nothing to do with my position. If you meant 3 pairs of shoes and not three changes, it's O.K. to say that so that the meaning is clear. No need to lay it on me because you didn't post what you meant. IMO

Jules2

09-27-2008, 10:56 PM

just semantics. Changing twice or thrice doesn't make sense to me. That smaller shoeprint is why I don't believe JY was even there.

Who do you think might have left the Hushpuppy shoe print then?

Barbara2

09-27-2008, 10:59 PM

The posts involved included 3 pairs of shoes, which is the same as 3 changes. If you choose to play word games then go ahead but since you were present on the thread it was talked on I did expect more from you. Silly me. :rolleyes:

Taking off 2 pairs of shoes and putting on a third is 3 changes.

It doesn't really matter. This is like the stupid "leaf raking" argument that went on for pages and meant nothing. I don't really care. Shoes may have been changed. Since there were not bloody footprints outside of the bedroom, it makes sense. I don't know how many times shoes were changed. It doesn't change the outcome. Is it really that important to you? Would it not be easier for you to just say, "You're right. That would only be two changes of shoes"?

But I'm not going to argue. It's a dumb argument, IMO.

Jules2

09-27-2008, 11:00 PM

You haven't busted anything. You are choosing to play word games. Go for it. :punch:

This really seems so trivial but the first pair of shoes were already on his feet so when he changes in to the second pair it is actually the first shoe change. The third pair is the second shoe change. If he changed three times, then he put on a fourth pair, and that's not what either Barbara2 or Brooklyn are stating.

Jules2

09-27-2008, 11:03 PM

my first thought was a hit man trying to implicate Jason just in case Jason tried to implicate a hit man later on. Nothing about the murder indicates it was a hired hit, which is why I wonder if maybe it was.

To be honest, I have always been open to that possibility, too.

I'm just not convinced of it, though.

Barbara2

09-27-2008, 11:18 PM

I've wondered for awhile if Michelle could have had an unknown stalker? It could explain the "being watched" feeling that was talked about long ago.

I don't think so. I think the "being watched" feeling came from not having curtains or blinds over the windows in that room.

Jules2

09-27-2008, 11:18 PM

Is the reason you want to derail the discussion because you can't handle differing opinions?

02¢ agreed with you that it's too bad politics get entangled with LE. How is that a different opinion? :shrug:

HI_CYCLE

09-27-2008, 11:37 PM

I've wondered for awhile if Michelle could have had an unknown stalker? It could explain the "being watched" feeling that was talked about long ago.I think a stalker is a big possibility. I think there are several scenarios possible but unfortunately I think LE was sure the husband did it and forgot to do a dual investigation. BIG MISTAKE on LE side.

HI_CYCLE

09-27-2008, 11:42 PM

Trust me, that won't happen. However, I will feel a whole lot better when you learn the usage of then & than. It really does make a difference, and you won't be so noticeable when you post under 2 different nics. JMO. Good luck with that, and shrug and a hug and a bug in a rug! :seeya:
Building that arsenal of names back up? Looks like you are going to have 2 pull some more out before long.
A zebra never changes his stripes.:D

annalyzer

09-27-2008, 11:47 PM

I think we can all see what is "plainly seen" by your posts and discussion isn't it.

A lot of new nics lately. Whatever happened to Janesdean?

Jules2

09-27-2008, 11:50 PM

In the real world a stalker is possible but here the only possibility is Jason. The responses tonight are proof of what I said the other night. Some of us try to offer reasonable possibilities but closed ears won't hear.

Bookie, with all due respect, your ears are pretty closed to anything that is said by those who believe Jason murdered Michelle, so what is your point exactly?

:shrug:

annalyzer

09-28-2008, 12:05 AM

I'm still wondering where my favorite all time poster "heathen" disappeared to. :confused:

Oh yeah, forgot about her. We have several mia's.

Jules2

09-28-2008, 12:06 AM

I have acknowledged that Jason could have murdered Michelle but I haven't seen any evidence that he did but my point is that some people here claimed they would entertain other theories but when some are presented they refuse to discuss them.

Ok, fair enough...but even though you have acknowledged the possibility of Jason being the murderer, you still don't believe he is and you don't entertain ANY of the theories proposed by those who think he is guilty. You refuse to discuss them other than to discredit them.

You don't expect others to entertain theories that they don't believe are a possibility, do you?

I'll go on the record and state that it is possible that Jason did not murder Michelle, but I see more evidence that points to the exact opposite. Therefor I believe he is responsible for her murder.

I'll entertain any theory that I believe is possible, but you nor anyone else can make me believe theories I don't agree with no matter how hard you argue your point.

I'll believe what I want to believe. And I believe....that it's my right.

IMO

HI_CYCLE

09-28-2008, 12:07 AM

I used it as a comparison case about details that at first sound ominous but ultimately may prove to be unimportant in solving the case. I do know one fact,there have been 2 many women murdered in a small area an I do NOT think it is a coincidence. LE better start looking at a serial killer before more are murdered. MOO

Jules2

09-28-2008, 12:11 AM

Since I posted earlier tonight that I don't think Meredith killed Michelle it looks like you are the one in the wrong.

See, Bookie, there's something I'll agree with you on...... I don't believe Meredith killed Michelle either.

HI_CYCLE

09-28-2008, 12:13 AM

Ok, fair enough...but even though you have acknowledged the possibility of Jason being the murderer, you still don't believe he is and you don't entertain ANY of the theories proposed by those who think he is guilty. You refuse to discuss them other than to discredit them.

You don't expect others to entertain theories that they don't believe are a possibility, do you?

I'll go on the record and state that it is possible that Jason did not murder Michelle, but I see more evidence that points to the exact opposite. Therefor I believe he is responsible for her murder.

I'll entertain any theory that I believe is possible, but you nor anyone else can make me believe theories I don't agree with no matter how hard you argue your point.

I'll believe what I want to believe. And I believe....that it's my right.

IMOAnd...It is OK with you if we all believe and want to believe because that is also our right? Right?

Jules2

09-28-2008, 12:18 AM

I think we all can agree on who it is and just use the ignore button. That little button works wonders. Just look at the posts and tell me if you alll would have missed any thing important by using ignore?

Sorry but I don't agree with who you think that poster is, so kindly don't speak for me when you say "we can all agree".

We've had a very intelligent discussion going on earlier. It went to pieces when the multiple nics came up again.

Face it....it will always be an issue. It's too bad it has to be such a big deal.

HI_CYCLE

09-28-2008, 12:19 AM

You go on with your bad self, june. I am not who you think I am, and you are too nosy to ignore anyone. And here you are derailing the discussion after midnight. Why is that. Am I hitting too close to home, once again? Meredith did NOT murder her sister. You can take that to the bank. All other theories are up for grabs.

Jason is the most likely candidate, since all the known search warrants seem to involve him. No one will convince me a SW is issued to "clear" anyone. They are granted to discover evidence. If, in the process, it clears someone, that's a good thing, but the recurrance of warrants for Jason, his property, & his living space, tells me he hasn't been cleared of anything.
IMOWhen was the last one served on him. I think it was to R/O Jason 100%. There will NOT be any more served on him or his family. I think I will state that as a fact.
:patriot:

Jules2

09-28-2008, 12:22 AM

And...It is OK with you if we all believe and want to believe because that is also our right? Right?

You can believe ANYTHING you want.

Makes no difference to me.

5swab5

09-28-2008, 04:21 AM

I think it's pretty safe to state that as fact. There is nothing else for them to search for in his property. Some of it they've gone over at least twice. If it's not there, it's not there.

Yep, the only searches from here on out for Jason are going to be cavity searches.

The indignity. Oh well, shouldn't have beaten his wife and child to death.

MOO

Swabby

Barbara2

09-28-2008, 08:35 AM

When was the last one served on him. I think it was to R/O Jason 100%. There will NOT be any more served on him or his family. I think I will state that as a fact.
:patriot:

I think you are probably correct. I don't think there will be any more search warrants served on anybody. I think the case has been handed over to the DA. I will state that as my opinion.

annalyzer

09-28-2008, 09:34 AM

OK, I read that article and still don't see what it has to do with Michelle Young. The Hampton case was a "missing person" case and Michelle was murdered in her home.

As for the detective "debunking" early statements, that occurs frequently in these type cases. :shrug: No wonder LE in Michelle's case has been so tight lipped.

You have to admit though that there seems to be an awful lot of unsolved murders of young women in NC.

Here's two more.

http://www.ncwanted.com/unsolved/story/3307322/

One article I read speculated there could be a serial killer.

"The case

The two sets of bones, found April 26 in a wooded area off the 3500 block of Carolina Beach Road, sparked an investigation that's been a priority for several detectives at the Wilmington Police Department.

A detective involved with the case acknowledged one possibility police are investigating is that the women were the victims of a serial killer. Although police later downplayed, that possibility, an expert on serial killers said the work could be that of an organized, prolific killer.

Police have confirmed they suspect the remains are of two murdered women who went missing a year apart in the summers of 2006 and 2007."

Cardinal

09-28-2008, 09:44 AM

You have to admit though that there seems to be an awful lot of unsolved murders of young women in NC.

Here's two more.

http://www.ncwanted.com/unsolved/story/3307322/

One article I read speculated there could be a serial killer.

"The case

The two sets of bones, found April 26 in a wooded area off the 3500 block of Carolina Beach Road, sparked an investigation that's been a priority for several detectives at the Wilmington Police Department.

A detective involved with the case acknowledged one possibility police are investigating is that the women were the victims of a serial killer. Although police later downplayed, that possibility, an expert on serial killers said the work could be that of an organized, prolific killer.

Police have confirmed they suspect the remains are of two murdered women who went missing a year apart in the summers of 2006 and 2007."

I've wondered a few times since I started following Michelle's case whether there were always this many cases of murdered women or whether I'm just more aware of them.

I don't believe, however, that Michelle was the target of a serial killer.

JMO

And I know how unpleasant it is to be ganged up on, so I hope that's ended.

annalyzer

09-28-2008, 09:51 AM

I've wondered a few times since I started following Michelle's case whether there were always this many cases of murdered women or whether I'm just more aware of them.

I don't believe, however, that Michelle was the target of a serial killer.

JMO

And I know how unpleasant it is to be ganged up on, so I hope that's ended.

I'm not implying she was. That was in response to the other poster's question of what another murdered woman has to do with the MY case. If nothing else the numerous unsolved murders of young women show the detective work is not exactly up to par.

annalyzer

09-28-2008, 10:06 AM

Have you seen this? :(

http://nccoldcases.com/w_-_z.htm

annalyzer

09-28-2008, 10:29 AM

Our fine detectives have no way to defend theirselves. They are open to public criticisism but cannot respond. I think that is not fair. We might have thought they were doing nothing a year ago but they were looking for information from China. We also didn't know last February that they were looking for a suspicious shirt while we thought they were doing nothing. They were also searching a storage building. There is also a sealed warrant we know nothing about. We just don't know what they are doing.

The murder occurred in Nov. 2006 and they searched for the shirt and the storage bldg. in February of what year?

annalyzer

09-28-2008, 10:41 AM

Interesting info that goes back decades
I did notice the majority of the victims are men....many Hispanic.
Yes, very sad.

I was referring to Michelle Young in the video.

annalyzer

09-28-2008, 10:47 AM

Yes, there seems to be a lot, but I'm not sure it is specific to NC. There are a lot of unsolved murders everywhere. It really is unfortunate. I do wonder, since this case happened in NC, if we aren't hearing/reading more about murders in that state than other states. Say if it occurred in PA, would our attention be drawn to more murders there? :shrug:

ETA - oops, I see I'm repeating what's already been said, right down to PA. I apologize for not reading before posting.

I'm sure there are just as many or more unsolved murders in some other states, especially of high populations, but since this is a discussion of an unsolved murder victim in NC I think the other unsolved murders of young women in that area is relevant to the discussion for various reasons.

annalyzer

09-28-2008, 10:51 AM

The finally found out the shoes were HP's 1/2008
They executed a SW the next month to confirm he did not have the shoes or the missing shirt.

Sounds like smart detective work to me.

I'm not even sure I would have a certain pair of shoes or a certain shirt almost sixteen months later.

annalyzer

09-28-2008, 10:52 AM

What video :shrug:

Oh sorry. I watched a video too. I meant in the link.

JHP

09-28-2008, 10:58 AM

Jason had an attorney early on. The police could have asked him through his attorney for the shirt. They had no problem asking him for his dna, fingerprints and foot impressions within days of the murder.

Maybe they did. IIRC a court order was involved in him showing up for that. And it was rumored that he showed up late. We don't know if LE asked Mr. Smith any questions. Everyone has been extremly quiet about this case.

JMO

HI_CYCLE

09-28-2008, 11:01 AM

I'm not even sure I would have a certain pair of shoes or a certain shirt almost sixteen months later. Men usually have their favorite,comfortable shoes they wear everyday to work and other events. Jason most likely wore those shoes out within a year or so. My guess from life experience. Women tend to wear different shoes with certain out fits and they last longer. Was the shirt listed on the SW or speculation. I really don`t remember.

annalyzer

09-28-2008, 11:05 AM

Well now there is no chance he can suddenly produce those 2 items at trial.

Hey, I want Michelle's murderer to fry just as much as you but you know the defense is going to bring up the wait of almost 16 months to explain away the shirt and shoes.

HI_CYCLE

09-28-2008, 11:14 AM

NTO means NONTESTIMONIAL ORDER.
That means they have a specific court order for DNA, ect.
JY refused to talk or cooperate.
Why would the cops tip their hand to his attorney about their evidence at that time ?Tip their hand?? Everyone on this message board at the beginning of this case knew LE had those pictures of him.No, that is not an excuse. Had they ask at that time he may have been able to produce it. his living arrangements by Feb.08 had change three times. His home in EO,to his sister,then his Mother`s. i would imagine many pieces of clothing and maybe shoes may have been discarded or donated in those 15 months. That was negligence on LE part.
Speaking of shoes, Men wear out shoes much faster then women.IMO. Men tend to wear the same comfortable shoes when working and many other events. Women change more often depending on what they wear.