Michelle Young Sept 26, 2008

[bookie]

I am trying to discuss the case. I see you refuse to do so by dissecting every post I have made this evening to suit your agenda. I hope you have had some fun at my expense. You are the one derailing the thread by your constant nit-picking. Now please put me on ignore, and I will return the favor.

Useless! barf

And thanks to all who actually tried to discuss this case today. It was interesting.



:lol::lol:

[HI_CYCLE]

Ok, fair enough...but even though you have acknowledged the possibility of Jason being the murderer, you still don't believe he is and you don't entertain ANY of the theories proposed by those who think he is guilty. You refuse to discuss them other than to discredit them.

You don't expect others to entertain theories that they don't believe are a possibility, do you?

I'll go on the record and state that it is possible that Jason did not murder Michelle, but I see more evidence that points to the exact opposite. Therefor I believe he is responsible for her murder.


I'll entertain any theory that I believe is possible, but you nor anyone else can make me believe theories I don't agree with no matter how hard you argue your point.

I'll believe what I want to believe. And I believe....that it's my right.

IMOAnd...It is OK with you if we all believe and want to believe because that is also our right? Right?

[Jules2]

I think we all can agree on who it is and just use the ignore button. That little button works wonders. Just look at the posts and tell me if you alll would have missed any thing important by using ignore?

Sorry but I don't agree with who you think that poster is, so kindly don't speak for me when you say "we can all agree".

We've had a very intelligent discussion going on earlier. It went to pieces when the multiple nics came up again.

Face it....it will always be an issue. It's too bad it has to be such a big deal.

[HI_CYCLE]

You go on with your bad self, june. I am not who you think I am, and you are too nosy to ignore anyone. And here you are derailing the discussion after midnight. Why is that. Am I hitting too close to home, once again? Meredith did NOT murder her sister. You can take that to the bank. All other theories are up for grabs.

Jason is the most likely candidate, since all the known search warrants seem to involve him. No one will convince me a SW is issued to "clear" anyone. They are granted to discover evidence. If, in the process, it clears someone, that's a good thing, but the recurrance of warrants for Jason, his property, & his living space, tells me he hasn't been cleared of anything.
IMOWhen was the last one served on him. I think it was to R/O Jason 100%. There will NOT be any more served on him or his family. I think I will state that as a fact.
:patriot:

[Jules2]

And...It is OK with you if we all believe and want to believe because that is also our right? Right?


You can believe ANYTHING you want.


Makes no difference to me.

[5swab5]

I think it's pretty safe to state that as fact. There is nothing else for them to search for in his property. Some of it they've gone over at least twice. If it's not there, it's not there.


Yep, the only searches from here on out for Jason are going to be cavity searches.

The indignity. Oh well, shouldn't have beaten his wife and child to death.

MOO

Swabby

[Barbara2]

When was the last one served on him. I think it was to R/O Jason 100%. There will NOT be any more served on him or his family. I think I will state that as a fact.
:patriot:

I think you are probably correct. I don't think there will be any more search warrants served on anybody. I think the case has been handed over to the DA. I will state that as my opinion.

[annalyzer]

OK, I read that article and still don't see what it has to do with Michelle Young. The Hampton case was a "missing person" case and Michelle was murdered in her home.

As for the detective "debunking" early statements, that occurs frequently in these type cases. :shrug: No wonder LE in Michelle's case has been so tight lipped.


You have to admit though that there seems to be an awful lot of unsolved murders of young women in NC.

Here's two more.

http://www.ncwanted.com/unsolved/story/3307322/


One article I read speculated there could be a serial killer.

"The case

The two sets of bones, found April 26 in a wooded area off the 3500 block of Carolina Beach Road, sparked an investigation that's been a priority for several detectives at the Wilmington Police Department.

A detective involved with the case acknowledged one possibility police are investigating is that the women were the victims of a serial killer. Although police later downplayed, that possibility, an expert on serial killers said the work could be that of an organized, prolific killer.

Police have confirmed they suspect the remains are of two murdered women who went missing a year apart in the summers of 2006 and 2007."

[Cardinal]

You have to admit though that there seems to be an awful lot of unsolved murders of young women in NC.

Here's two more.

http://www.ncwanted.com/unsolved/story/3307322/


One article I read speculated there could be a serial killer.

"The case

The two sets of bones, found April 26 in a wooded area off the 3500 block of Carolina Beach Road, sparked an investigation that's been a priority for several detectives at the Wilmington Police Department.

A detective involved with the case acknowledged one possibility police are investigating is that the women were the victims of a serial killer. Although police later downplayed, that possibility, an expert on serial killers said the work could be that of an organized, prolific killer.

Police have confirmed they suspect the remains are of two murdered women who went missing a year apart in the summers of 2006 and 2007."


I've wondered a few times since I started following Michelle's case whether there were always this many cases of murdered women or whether I'm just more aware of them.

I don't believe, however, that Michelle was the target of a serial killer.

JMO


And I know how unpleasant it is to be ganged up on, so I hope that's ended.

[annalyzer]

I've wondered a few times since I started following Michelle's case whether there were always this many cases of murdered women or whether I'm just more aware of them.

I don't believe, however, that Michelle was the target of a serial killer.

JMO


And I know how unpleasant it is to be ganged up on, so I hope that's ended.


I'm not implying she was. That was in response to the other poster's question of what another murdered woman has to do with the MY case. If nothing else the numerous unsolved murders of young women show the detective work is not exactly up to par.

[annalyzer]

Have you seen this? :(

http://nccoldcases.com/w_-_z.htm

[annalyzer]

Our fine detectives have no way to defend theirselves. They are open to public criticisism but cannot respond. I think that is not fair. We might have thought they were doing nothing a year ago but they were looking for information from China. We also didn't know last February that they were looking for a suspicious shirt while we thought they were doing nothing. They were also searching a storage building. There is also a sealed warrant we know nothing about. We just don't know what they are doing.


The murder occurred in Nov. 2006 and they searched for the shirt and the storage bldg. in February of what year?

[annalyzer]

Interesting info that goes back decades
I did notice the majority of the victims are men....many Hispanic.
Yes, very sad.


I was referring to Michelle Young in the video.

[annalyzer]

Yes, there seems to be a lot, but I'm not sure it is specific to NC. There are a lot of unsolved murders everywhere. It really is unfortunate. I do wonder, since this case happened in NC, if we aren't hearing/reading more about murders in that state than other states. Say if it occurred in PA, would our attention be drawn to more murders there? :shrug:

ETA - oops, I see I'm repeating what's already been said, right down to PA. I apologize for not reading before posting.


I'm sure there are just as many or more unsolved murders in some other states, especially of high populations, but since this is a discussion of an unsolved murder victim in NC I think the other unsolved murders of young women in that area is relevant to the discussion for various reasons.

[bookie]

The murder occurred in Nov. 2006 and they searched for the shirt and the storage bldg. in February of what year?


Feb '08. 15 months after police saw him on the video wearing the shirt.

[bookie]

I think it was a year later. But I think the detectives could not ask Jason to produce the suspicious shirt right when they noticed it. Jason was not talking to them. At that time the detectives were also busy traveing to other locations and other states while they searched for evidence. Maybe they are still traveling elsewhere and investigating other people. We just do not know.



Jason had an attorney early on. The police could have asked him through his attorney for the shirt. They had no problem asking him for his dna, fingerprints and foot impressions within days of the murder.

[annalyzer]

The finally found out the shoes were HP's 1/2008
They executed a SW the next month to confirm he did not have the shoes or the missing shirt.

Sounds like smart detective work to me.


I'm not even sure I would have a certain pair of shoes or a certain shirt almost sixteen months later.

[annalyzer]

What video :shrug:


Oh sorry. I watched a video too. I meant in the link.

[JHP]

Jason had an attorney early on. The police could have asked him through his attorney for the shirt. They had no problem asking him for his dna, fingerprints and foot impressions within days of the murder.


Maybe they did. IIRC a court order was involved in him showing up for that. And it was rumored that he showed up late. We don't know if LE asked Mr. Smith any questions. Everyone has been extremly quiet about this case.

JMO

[HI_CYCLE]

I'm not even sure I would have a certain pair of shoes or a certain shirt almost sixteen months later. Men usually have their favorite,comfortable shoes they wear everyday to work and other events. Jason most likely wore those shoes out within a year or so. My guess from life experience. Women tend to wear different shoes with certain out fits and they last longer. Was the shirt listed on the SW or speculation. I really don`t remember.

[annalyzer]

Well now there is no chance he can suddenly produce those 2 items at trial.

Hey, I want Michelle's murderer to fry just as much as you but you know the defense is going to bring up the wait of almost 16 months to explain away the shirt and shoes.

[bookie]

Oh sorry. I watched a video too. I meant in the link.


I thought 2 were very interesting.


Beulah Dickerson, Raliegh NC...blunt force trauma in her home 2001.


WAYNE COUNTY - Latasha T. Sutton, 20, was killed by a gunshot wound. Her body was found Aug. 26, 2003, in her home, Apartment 50, in Jefferson Court at 1100 N. Jefferson Ave. Investigator: Chad Calloway. She found Latasha lying on her bedroom floor, the baby sitting beside her, covered in blood. Her daughter had been shot in the head, and the baby was unharmed.


Both of these were within 4 years of Michelle's murder but look at the similarities of the them. One was found dead from blunt force trauma in her own home and the other's baby was found sitting next to her body.

Wayne and Wake counties are close enough that a serial killer could be on the loose.

[bookie]

Maybe they did. IIRC a court order was involved in him showing up for that. And it was rumored that he showed up late. We don't know if LE asked Mr. Smith any questions. Everyone has been extremly quiet about this case.

JMO


What does that have to do with the fact that the police had no problems asking for evidence from Jason early on? They knew about the shirt within a day or 2 so they could have asked for it just as easily as they asked for the dna and other stuff.

[HI_CYCLE]

NTO means NONTESTIMONIAL ORDER.
That means they have a specific court order for DNA, ect.
JY refused to talk or cooperate.
Why would the cops tip their hand to his attorney about their evidence at that time ?Tip their hand?? Everyone on this message board at the beginning of this case knew LE had those pictures of him.No, that is not an excuse. Had they ask at that time he may have been able to produce it. his living arrangements by Feb.08 had change three times. His home in EO,to his sister,then his Mother`s. i would imagine many pieces of clothing and maybe shoes may have been discarded or donated in those 15 months. That was negligence on LE part.
Speaking of shoes, Men wear out shoes much faster then women.IMO. Men tend to wear the same comfortable shoes when working and many other events. Women change more often depending on what they wear.

[bookie]

JY refused to be interviewed or cooperate with the cops.
What part of that don't you understand :shrug:



What part of he had an attorney don't you understand? :punch:

[annalyzer]

This statement has no factual basis what so ever.

It's her opinion and I agree with it.

[bookie]

Nothing.
JY obtained counsel and refused to be interviewed or cooperate.
The sheriff said numerous times they tried to get him to cooperate through his attorney but that also failed.

:punch:



The police say a lot of things, doesn't mean they are true. In another Wake county case police claimed the husband refused to explain scratches on his neck but we find out later that they never asked about the scratches....scratches that weren't visible a few days later.

[HI_CYCLE]

This statement has no factual basis what so ever. Ask women how many pairs of shoes they own. How many do the men own. Then tell me my statement " has no factual basis ".:lol:

[bookie]

It's her opinion and I agree with it.



Considering I have to buy hubby 3 or 4 pairs of work boots a year to my 1 pair of shoes I have to agree as well.

[Cardinal]

It's her opinion and I agree with it.


I agree with it, too. DH gets attached to a pair of shoes and wears them every chance he gets. I won't share how many pair of shoes I have. :)

[HI_CYCLE]

You seem to forget that Jason has been uncooperative since the very beginning. He hung up on LE before he even got back to Raleigh. How was LE to ask him anything and expect an answer when his attorney told him to zip his lip?

He hung up on LE because they were INSISTING he drive straight to the bloody crime scene. Had Michelle`s body even been removed from her home. I certainly can NOT hold that against him.

[annalyzer]

Nothing.
JY obtained counsel and refused to be interviewed or cooperate.
The sheriff said numerous times they tried to get him to cooperate through his attorney but that also failed.

:punch:


They could've executed a search for the shoes and shirt much sooner. It should not have taken over a year to figure out one of the shoe prints came from an HP and the other from a Franklin. Our student poster (what happened to him?) found a Franklin size 10 on ebay in a matter of minutes.

[HI_CYCLE]

I agree with it, too. DH gets attached to a pair of shoes and wears them every chance he gets. I won't share how many pair of shoes I have. :)LOL. That goes for purses VS men`s wallet. Women have a closet of shoes and purses,men usually have maybe 3 or 4 pair at the most and wallet,well we know they hang on to them as long as the threads holds it together.

[annalyzer]

Ask women how many pairs of shoes they own. How many do the men own. Then tell me my statement " has no factual basis ".:lol:


Perhaps you should have clarified that as "manly" men. ;)

[HI_CYCLE]

I never heard that was the reason he hung up on LE. Do you have a link for that?
Yes it was in the just released SW in describing reasons for suspecting JY as the murder. You can look it up or disbelieve,your choice.

[HI_CYCLE]

OK, I disbelieve. That was never mentioned as the reason in any search warrant.I stated,your choice,but it was in the warrant and discussed on this board.

[annalyzer]

Also shoes tear up sometimes. Especially shoes bought at a discount store. I bought a pair of arcopedico at a discount shoe store back in Jan 2008. I thought I was getting a bargain for 30.00. The rubber sole came off about 6 weeks ago and I had to pitch them. I think those maybe seconds the discount shoe stores sell. Wonder how many pair of HP shoes were sold in Raleigh in 2003?

omg they are going by a sales receipt of shoes bought in 2003? lol

Hey, anyone have a link to the latest sw?

[Cardinal]

OK, I disbelieve. That was never mentioned as the reason in any search warrant.


The 2/14 warrants state that Jason "refused to come to the scene." That implies he was asked to do so.

Page 4:

http://dig.abclocal.go.com/wtvd/youngwarrants.pdf

[bookie]

omg they are going by a sales receipt of shoes bought in 2003? lol

Hey, anyone have a link to the latest sw?





http://dig.abclocal.go.com/wtvd/youngwarrants.pdf

[annalyzer]

http://dig.abclocal.go.com/wtvd/youngwarrants.pdf

I believe it says 2005 for the shoes.

[bookie]

I believe it says 2005 for the shoes.



July 4, 2005. I wasn't posting about the date, just giving you the link.

[bookie]

I was surprised when I saw what Jason paid for his shoes. From the information we had I thought he was a wild spender who wasted the income of the family. Then we saw how much he spent on his shoes. He does not come across as a wid spender to me when he spends less than 50 for new shoes.


And all of his shoe purchases on that receipt had discounts. The single women's purchase didn't.

[HI_CYCLE]

OK, I disbelieve. That was never mentioned as the reason in any search warrant.
You might want to reread page 3 of the Feb SW.I would copy and paste but I am unable to do so. It want take you but a minute if you really want the truth.

[Jules2]

He hung up on LE because they were INSISTING he drive straight to the bloody crime scene. Had Michelle`s body even been removed from her home. I certainly can NOT hold that against him.


According to the SW, the investigator was attempting to "enlist Jason Young's assistance" The SW continues to state that Jason could have done a walk through of the home, that he could have provided names of people who may have had a conflict with either him or his wife, he could have provided names of recent visitors or workers to the home. "However, he refused to come to the scene or continue speaking with the investigators"

"The conversation concludes with Jason Young hanging up on the investigator who is speaking with him."


No where does it state that investigators insisted he come to the scene. They were asking him to help with the investigation by providing information. He refused.

This is what has always stuck out as a red flag to me. Your wife, the woman you supposedly love with all your heart, is found murdered in your home and you don't want to help find her killer in any way shape or form. If you are innocent of the crime, then what on earth do you have to hide? Go ahead and say that he chose to keep quiet because he knew he was going to be the first suspect, but like I said.....if he had nothing to do with it, then why did he assume that his helping LE was a bad idea?


It's almost like he just wanted to wash his hands of it right then and there and continue on with his life. :shrug:


IMO

[Cardinal]

What bothers me more about the LE in Wake county is the leaks. There was a sealed warrant and days before it came out it was reported on line what would be in the warrant. Now just weeks before that the Sheriff and 2 officers went to a memorial for Michelle and I think they did a lot of talking that day. Now it was stated they told them there would be an arrest. So I guess if they were telling the truth about the warrant then there probably is going to be an arrest. I think if it is Jason he will never be convicted and the real killer got a free ride. You know every one has picked apart where Jason was on the night Michelle was killed I have never seen one time were any one can offer an alibi for MF. Wouldn't you think all these people that say she can't be guilty would offer up a reason why?


June, the LE officers who went to the LBLO were not the only people who had seen those warrants. Mrs. Young and Heather would have been given copies of them, and could have shown them to any number of people. It is said that one of their friends posts about this case; if true, I think it more likely that any leaks came from him than from LE.

As for Meredith, other than some very dated paragraphs and the 911 call, I haven't seen people offer any reason she could be guilty. I have asked, several times, but those things have always been the only answers I got.

JMO

[bookie]

Implications aside, where in that warrant is it stated that LE "INSISTED" he return to Birchleaf? I'm still not seeing it.



"The investigator was attempting to enlist Jason Young's assistance in the early stages of the investigation. He could have done a walk through of the residence to look for items that were missing or out of place."


It may not use the exact words but the meaning is there. Was Jason supposed to be psychic and know the police wanted him to walk through the home or was it discussed?

There were early posts about how friends called Jason and told him police were focusing on him as a suspect and told him to get a lawyer before he got back to town. It's possible that the tone was hostile from LE and that's why Jason hung up on them.

[annalyzer]

July 4, 2005. I wasn't posting about the date, just giving you the link.


I know, I was clarifying my earlier post about the 2003 date.

[HI_CYCLE]

Are you saying you think the detectivs lied when they said in the warrant that Jason hung up on them? I do not think they would be allowed to do that. Do you have a reason for the detectives to lie? I don`t think they lied about Jason hanging up on them,I believe the conversation was going NO where. Jason Young was NOT going to the bloody crime scene and I think that set up the future of his cooperation. Again, anyone know if Michelle`s body had been removed from the home at the time of that conversation?

[annalyzer]

"The investigator was attempting to enlist Jason Young's assistance in the early stages of the investigation. He could have done a walk through of the residence to look for items that were missing or out of place."


It may not use the exact words but the meaning is there. Was Jason supposed to be psychic and know the police wanted him to walk through the home or was it discussed?

There were early posts about how friends called Jason and told him police were focusing on him as a suspect and told him to get a lawyer before he got back to town. It's possible that the tone was hostile from LE and that's why Jason hung up on them.


His stepfather likely told him to hang up. IIRC the stepfather had some harsh words to say about LE. Anyone remember that?

[bookie]

Are you saying you think the detectivs lied when they said in the warrant that Jason hung up on them? I do not think they would be allowed to do that. Do you have a reason for the detectives to lie?



No that wasn't what I said. I was talking about the part about the police saying Jason wouldn't cooperate through his attorney.

Police lie all the time. They are allowed to lie. Look at the Tankleff case or the Stephen Crowe case. Police lied to Marty Tankleff and told him his father woke up from a coma and named him as the assailant. That never happened and MT spent years in prison because he thought he'd blacked out and killed his parents because of that police lie.

[annalyzer]

Huh ?

The FBI matched the HP shoe print 1/2008.
What does finding a pair of Franklin's on e-bay have to do with anything ? Was the seller Jason Young by chance ? :lol:

Can you discuss this case like an adult?

[annalyzer]

No that wasn't what I said. I was talking about the part about the police saying Jason wouldn't cooperate through his attorney.

Police lie all the time. They are allowed to lie. ~snip


Yes, they are allowed to lie to get the info they want or need.

[bookie]

His stepfather likely told him to hang up. IIRC the stepfather had some harsh words to say about LE. Anyone remember that?




McIntyre said he told Jason Young to get a lawyer. He said he was afraid that police would pin the death on his stepson, regardless of evidence.

"I do not want my son to be talking to any type of investigators," he said. "They're not going to be trustworthy when they talk to him."

http://www.newsobserver.com/102/story/507222.html

[HI_CYCLE]

Huh ?

The FBI matched the HP shoe print 1/2008.
What does finding a pair of Franklin's on e-bay have to do with anything ? Was the seller Jason Young by chance ? :lol:It was also a year later before the FBI was EMAILED a copy of the HP shoes to be identified. Why wasn`t it sent when local LE could not identify it. A year after KNOWING local LE could NOT identify.

[annalyzer]

The FBI matched the HP shoe print 1/2008.




And what date was the FBI given the info from LE to start the search for the prints?

[HI_CYCLE]

And what date was the FBI given the info from LE to start the search for the prints?
Thank You.

[annalyzer]

It was also a year later before the FBI was EMAILED a copy of the HP shoes to be identified. Why wasn`t it sent when local LE could not identify it. A year after KNOWING local LE could NOT identify.


Thank you, you just answered my question.

[bookie]

And what date was the FBI given the info from LE to start the search for the prints?



December 11, 2007, more than a year after the murder.



"On December 11, 2007, Agent Murray emailed a photograph of the unidentified footwear impression to Michael Smith of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) in Quantico, Virginia."

[annalyzer]

McIntyre said he told Jason Young to get a lawyer. He said he was afraid that police would pin the death on his stepson, regardless of evidence.

"I do not want my son to be talking to any type of investigators," he said. "They're not going to be trustworthy when they talk to him."

http://www.newsobserver.com/102/story/507222.html


I have always held Jason's silence against him but I was thinking, lol, and you know how when you put off something and put off something and then it gets harder to do it? Like visiting or calling someone, etc? Is there a possibility that Jason kept his mouth shut in the beginning because his dad told him to and then as time went on it just got harder and harder to talk with LE? :shrug:

[bookie]

I have always held Jason's silence against him but I was thinking, lol, and you know how when you put off something and put off something and then it gets harder to do it? Like visiting or calling someone, etc? Is there a possibility that Jason kept his mouth shut in the beginning because his dad told him to and then as time went on it just got harder and harder to talk with LE? :shrug:


It's very possible.

The NTIO order was sought without the police even asking Jason to submit dna or fingerprints but once the news got ahold of it it became "the police had to force Jason to submit dna" and other than 1 brief interview the police never corrected that misinformation.

Then the sheriff started making the "uncooperative" comments to the media within days. They didn't give Jason time to grieve before the media villification started so I can see someone deciding that the police have already decided I'm their man so let them prove it.

[annalyzer]

December 11, 2007, more than a year after the murder.



"On December 11, 2007, Agent Murray emailed a photograph of the unidentified footwear impression to Michael Smith of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) in Quantico, Virginia."


So it took the FBI less than a month to identify the prints. If the local LE had given them this info soon after the murder they could've had it back to them before the end of 2006 and a sw executed by then. Not almost 16 months later. Now who was arguing about the detective work not being up to par?

[HI_CYCLE]

Does anyone know if there is information out there that would state what time the coroner removed Michelle`s body from the crime scene?

[bookie]

So it took the FBI less than a month to identify the prints. If the local LE had given them this info soon after the murder they could've had it back to them before the end of 2006 and a sw executed by then. Not almost 16 months later. Now who was arguing about the detective work not being up to par?


I agree. But I also think the actual shoe should have been sent and not just an emailed photo.

[annalyzer]

I would be surprized if you are right. Maybe no suspect should talk to detectives. ~snip

No surprise. Haven't you ever watched a good police interrogation?

[HI_CYCLE]

I would like to hear an explanation of why it took 13 days to complete the investigation inside the home. This is so ridiculous. 13 days??

[HI_CYCLE]

I agree. But I also think the actual shoe should have been sent and not just an emailed photo.
Bookie LE didn`t have the actual unidentified shoe.

[annalyzer]

I would like to hear an explanation of why it took 13 days to complete the investigation inside the home. This is so ridiculous. 13 days??

If Jason is arrested and goes to trial the defense will have a lot to work with. Unfortunate if Jason is the killer but a missed tooth and no rape kit done....

[bookie]

I would be surprized if you are right. Maybe no suspect should talk to detectives. By the way, the stepfather was not in the car going to Raleigh. He was in Brevard. He did not tell Jason to hang up on the detective.



In 1936 the Supreme Court outlawed using force to get a confession but lying has been allowed because the courts assume an innocent person would never admit to a crime. Typically about half of all suspects confess during questioning and lying can help speed things up.


It is rare, but police do use even more elaborate lies to catch criminals. A few years ago, officers in Seattle duped a murder suspect into giving them DNA. They mailed him a return envelope from a fake law firm and made him think he might be owed money.

http://wcco.com/goodquestion/Good.Question.police.2.361562.html

[bookie]

Bookie LE didn`t have the actual unidentified shoe.


LOL I meant the actual shoe impression. I left a word out.

[HI_CYCLE]

No surprise. Haven't you ever watched a good police interrogation?
Ask a LE officer if he/she was a target in a crime if they would consent to a interrogation with out a lawyer.

[annalyzer]

I think we should remember the detectives were not investigating just this one case. From what I have read in the Raleigh papers they had many other cases to spend time on also. I don't mean to offer an excusefor anything but I think the detectives did have other cases to work on.

I'm sure but when time is of the essence then getting shoe prints to the FBI should have been a high priority. We're talking almost a year later.

[annalyzer]

Wake County does not have a coroner.
The ME performed the autopsy Saturday morning.

What time was the body removed from the home?

[annalyzer]

LE didn't have the actual shoe. They only had a print to work with. .

She meant the actual shoe print instead of a photo.

[bookie]

LE didn't have the actual shoe. They only had a print to work with. The point of sending the photo to the FBI lab was so they could determine what kind of shoe left the print.




bookie
Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,098

Quote:
Originally Posted by HI_CYCLE
Bookie LE didn`t have the actual unidentified shoe.


LOL I meant the actual shoe impression. I left a word out.

[HI_CYCLE]

I'm sure but when time is of the essence then getting shoe prints to the FBI should have been a high priority. We're talking almost a year later.This entire investigation has been a puzzle to me. If and when this case goes to trial LE are going to walk out looking like idiots due to all the delays. IMO
A good defense lawyer will rip them to pieces.They will begin with the 13 days in the home taking evidence and move on to why all the delays in getting evidence out for identification and having to go back to the home and the storage sheds for even more evidence. This investigation has been a joke from the git go. I understand why no arrest in almost 2 years. I hope someone has some really good explanations.

[bookie]

What time was the body removed from the home?



Since the police have to process the scene it could have been hours or days. I remember one case where the body wasn't removed until late the following day. And Heath Ledger was found dead in the afternoon (around 3) but his body wasn't removed until almost 9 pm the night he died.

[annalyzer]

Ridiculous ?

It's called a thorough job HC

And no surprise. It took them a year to get the shoe prints to the FBI so what's 13 days? :shrug:

[HI_CYCLE]

Ridiculous ?

It's called a thorough job HC


:lol: LMBO, surely you jest...

[annalyzer]

Since the police have to process the scene it could have been hours or days. I remember one case where the body wasn't removed until late the following day. And Heath Ledger was found dead in the afternoon (around 3) but his body wasn't removed until almost 9 pm the night he died.


Hi C wanted to know for some reason. :shrug:

[5swab5]

(snipped)
Speaking of shoes, Men wear out shoes much faster then women.IMO. Men tend to wear the same comfortable shoes when working and many other events. Women change more often depending on what they wear.

For some men, I am sure this is true. But I doubt it, with Jason the fashion plate.

We know from videos and testimony that Jason had on at least 3 different outfits within a 24 hour period, not much wear and tear there.

MOO

Swabby

[HI_CYCLE]

Since the police have to process the scene it could have been hours or days. I remember one case where the body wasn't removed until late the following day. And Heath Ledger was found dead in the afternoon (around 3) but his body wasn't removed until almost 9 pm the night he died. I ask that because I think LE was cruel enough to want Jason to enter that house and bedroom with Michelle still on the floor in a bloody mess. How cruel would that be???

[annalyzer]

snip~ We know from videos and testimony that Jason had on at least 3 different outfits within a 24 hour period, not much wear and tear there.




LOL :tongue:

[bookie]

Ridiculous ?

It's called a thorough job HC



If it had been a thorough job police wouldn't have missed a tooth fragment and they wouldn't have had to go back a year later to take measurements and get planks.

[annalyzer]

Yes, I saw that after I posted. Shame on me for responding before reading everything posted. I did that earlier, too. When will I learn?


That's okay. We all do it sometimes. :seeya:

[bookie]

Hi C wanted to know for some reason. :shrug:



I know. I was being lazy and quoting the closest post about it.

[JHP]

I ask that because I think LE was cruel enough to want Jason to enter that house and bedroom with Michelle still on the floor in a bloody mess. How cruel would that be???

They obviously had a very brief conversation. I think LE just requested he come by the house. How would J know the scene was bloody? Unless of course he had been there before.

JMO

[HI_CYCLE]

For some men, I am sure this is true. But I doubt it, with Jason the fashion plate.

We know from videos and testimony that Jason had on at least 3 different outfits within a 24 hour period, not much wear and tear there.

MOO

SwabbyWould you expect him to attend a meeting in the same clothes he wore on his trip? So he put on a heavier shirt to go outside to the office. i would gander to guess,the temperature had dropped significantly from when he left Raleigh. I am not all that familiar with the mountainous area but what little I do know there is quite a dip in temps the closer you get to the mountain area. If I am wrong I am sure you will correct me.

[annalyzer]

If it had been a thorough job police wouldn't have missed a tooth fragment and they wouldn't have had to go back a year later to take measurements and get planks.

And I can understand why the family would make a "big deal" over the tooth fragment and get shoes out to compare to prints, etc., (if that happened). I'd likely do the same thing if it were my brother under suspicion.

[HI_CYCLE]

Wake County does not have a coroner.
The ME performed the autopsy Saturday morning.

OK, but someone had to remove her body,regardless of whether she was put in a police cruiser or what ever. My question was when,what time of day or night. Was she still in the home when LE was insisting Jason come there.

[HI_CYCLE]

If it had been a thorough job police wouldn't have missed a tooth fragment and they wouldn't have had to go back a year later to take measurements and get planks.
And..Let`s not forget the furniture in the shed..

[bookie]

And I can understand why the family would make a "big deal" over the tooth fragment and get shoes out to compare to prints, etc., (if that happened). I'd likely do the same thing if it were my brother under suspicion.



I probably would too. Gerald had some knowledge of police obviously. Heck, maybe he has posted on crime based message boards in the past? Lord knows we have discussed comparing evidence in other cases so maybe someone in that family was a crime junkie like us.

[HI_CYCLE]

They obviously had a very brief conversation. I think LE just requested he come by the house. How would J know the scene was bloody? Unless of course he had been there before.

JMO:lol: It was a murder scene and I am sure he had talked to Meredith about cassidy and she is a talker,I gather that from her conversation with the 911 operator,so I am sure she described it to everyone who would listen. Jason`s friends and Jason himself.

[bookie]

And..Let`s not forget the furniture in the shed..



Right, I did forget about that. The crime scene was so thoroughly investigated that police issued a search warrant 15 months later to check the bedroom funriture for dna.

I'm with you. What the heck were they doing in that house for 13 days considering how much they needed to go back for more than a year later? And how could they say it wasn't random if they never checked the furniture for unknown prints or dna?

[JHP]

:lol: It was a murder scene and I am sure he had talked to Meredith about cassidy and she is a talker,I gather that from her conversation with the 911 operator,so I am sure she described it to everyone who would listen. Jason`s friends and Jason himself.

I don't think it was ever said he talked to Meredith. Even if J's friends had gathered at the crime scene I doubt LE was talking to them. They were busy with a crime scene. Have we heard that he even tried to talk to Cassidy? So how would he know how bloody it was?

[bookie]

They obviously had a very brief conversation. I think LE just requested he come by the house. How would J know the scene was bloody? Unless of course he had been there before.

JMO


IIRC Michelle's family told Jason's family? If so I'm sure they knew about the blood from Meredith and told Jason's family about it.

[HI_CYCLE]

I don't think it was ever said he talked to Meredith. Even if J's friends had gathered at the crime scene I doubt LE was talking to them. They were busy with a crime scene. Have we heard that he even tried to talk to Cassidy? So how would he know how bloody it was?Common sense tell`s me he spoke with Meredith because she had his daughter and found Michelle. I think Jason's friends were at Meredith`s house when he arrived. Common sense my dear,common sense.

[JHP]

IIRC Michelle's family told Jason's family? If so I'm sure they knew about the blood from Meredith and told Jason's family about it.

I don't think anyone knows who called J's mother for sure. It has been reported that it was Meredith, Linda Fisher. and I believe mimi a poster from long ago, stated it was friends from far far away.

[JHP]

Common sense tell`s me he spoke with Meredith because she had his daughter and found Michelle. I think Jason's were at Meredith`s house when he arrived. Common sense my dear,common sense.

I know I would have called immediatly. But I also would have gotten into the car and drove immediatly to my daughter, not waited around for anyone. So common sense may not come into play here. until we get some proof.

JMO

[Cardinal]

I ask that because I think LE was cruel enough to want Jason to enter that house and bedroom with Michelle still on the floor in a bloody mess. How cruel would that be???

As cruel as when Meredith entered that house and bedroom with Michelle still on the floor in a bloody mess, HC.

JMO

[HI_CYCLE]

Maybe the search for a shirt and shoes and inspection of furnture were just a cover for something else. I mean, maybe the detectives were looking for something else and used the other stuff as an excuse to look. I have been told that detectives are allowed to lie so why do we believe anything they tell us? I think I will not be critical of the detectives untl I see what they were really after."Maybe the search for a shirt and shoes and inspection of furnture were just a cover for something else" I believe that. A excuse to get in the shed to get DNA from furniture that should have been gotten in those 13 days spent in the house investigating. It`s called CYA in my line of work with out looking like a dummy.

[HI_CYCLE]

I know I would have called immediatly. But I also would have gotten into the car and drove immediatly to my daughter, not waited around for anyone. So common sense may not come into play here. until we get some proof.

JMOAnd not going to a bloody crime scene with your wife`s body still there. I agree straight to my child.

[HI_CYCLE]

As cruel as when Meredith entered that house and bedroom with Michelle still on the floor in a bloody mess, HC.

JMO
Jason did NOT know his wife had been murdered..I will stick to my statement until prove different.

[Cardinal]

"Maybe the search for a shirt and shoes and inspection of furnture were just a cover for something else" I believe that. A excuse to get in the shed to get DNA from furniture that should have been gotten in those 13 days spent in the house investigating. It`s called CYA in my line of work with out looking like a dummy.


I agree that the DNA on the furniture should have been sampled during the initial crime scene investigation. But I don't think LE spent 13 days 24/7 at Birchleaf. They had it secured for that long, but I would think different teams were in and out of there for some period of time.

JMO

[JHP]

And not going to a bloody crime scene with your wife`s body still there. I agree straight to my child.

But I then would have done whatever LE wanted me to do, as soon as I had made sure my child was ok. Unless of couse I was hiding something.

JMO

[HI_CYCLE]

I agree that the DNA on the furniture should have been sampled during the initial crime scene investigation. But I don't think LE spent 13 days 24/7 at Birchleaf. They had it secured for that long, but I would think different teams were in and out of there for some period of time.

JMORegardless how you explain the 13 days,LE was in that house 13 day.

[Cardinal]

Jason did NOT know his wife had been murdered..I will stick to my statement until prove different.

My statement wasn't about Jason being guilty or not. I was simply saying that it couldn't have been any more difficult for him than it was for Meredith. At least he would have been more prepared than she was.

JMO

[HI_CYCLE]

But I then would have done whatever LE wanted me to do, as soon as I had made sure my child was ok. Unless of couse I was hiding something.

JMO
That`s fine,your choice,but don`t criticize Jason`s choice if you have not walked in his shoes.

[JHP]

I think you can throw away common sense in such a horible tragedy. I would have been in no shape to drive. I don't knowq how Jason was at the time. A long time ago it was posted by someone that he did talk to Meredith and Cassie before he left Brevard.

Yes, but his mom supposedly knew before he arrived. She should have been ready to go IMO.

But until we hear from Meredith or LE it's just rumor that he talked to anyone. Until he hung up on LE. We do know he did that.


JMO

[JHP]

That`s fine,your choice,but don`t criticize Jason`s choice if you have not walked in his shoes.

HP's aren't my style;)

[bookie]

Maybe the search for a shirt and shoes and inspection of furnture were just a cover for something else. I mean, maybe the detectives were looking for something else and used the other stuff as an excuse to look. I have been told that detectives are allowed to lie so why do we believe anything they tell us? I think I will not be critical of the detectives untl I see what they were really after.



They are allowed to lie to suspects/witnesses during an investigation. They are not allowed to lie to a judge at any time. Lying in a search warrant affadavit could get the evidence thrown out in court. Read the line above the judge's signature. It says "sworn and subscribed before to me." That's because the officer is swearing to the truth.

[HI_CYCLE]

My statement wasn't about Jason being guilty or not. I was simply saying that it couldn't have been any more difficult for him than it was for Meredith. At least he would have been more prepared than she was.

JMOI agree,but it was a known fact Michelle had been murdered after Meredith found Michelle`s body.If she was not involved,I hurt for her.But just because it did happen to Meredith does not make it right to expect her husband to go through the same scene. Two wrongs do NOT make a right.It was wrong for Meridith to experience what she did if she has nothing to do with her sister`s murder,but you can`t blame Jason if he did NOT know what she would find.
ETA:How in the heck do you prepare for a murder scene of you wife???

[bookie]

Yes, but his mom supposedly knew before he arrived. She should have been ready to go IMO.

But until we hear from Meredith or LE it's just rumor that he talked to anyone. Until he hung up on LE. We do know he did that.


JMO




According to the stepfather Jason fell to his knees as soon as he heard the news. He may not have been ready to go. He may have needed time to cry and then get himself under control.

[Cardinal]

I agree,but it was a known fact Michelle had been murdered after Meredith found Michelle`s body.If she was not involved,I hurt for her.But just because it did happen to Meredith does not make it right to expect her husband to go through the same scene. Two wrongs do NOT make a right.It was wrong for Meridith to experience what she did if she has nothing to do with her sister`s murder,but you can`t blame Jason if he did NOT know what she would find.
ETA:How in the heck do you prepare for a murder scene of you wife???

I wasn't blaming Jason for anything, and I don't know how you prepare. But people do, all the time, unfortunately.

[HI_CYCLE]

I think the dead spot was in Raleigh. But if it is true that detectives are allowed to lie about anything and everything I do not know how I can believe anything they say. Did Jason hang up on them? Maybe everything we think we know about this case is based on lies by the detectives.
I am sure there is a lot of embellishment and omission of words.

[JHP]

I recall early on it was posted that LE wanted to speak with JY, while they were enroute to Raleigh , and his mother said he couldn't speak with them. I wonder if this was before or after he hung up on them? Mrs. Young supposedly reassured them they were on the way back .

MOO Aggie

Hi Aggie, this is whats so frustrating, we know so little to be true. I was surprised when the S/W said he hung up on them. Because we had been told about his mom and J not being able to speak to them. Like from the start.

I sure do hope some action in this case comes soon.

JMO

[HI_CYCLE]

I recall early on it was posted that LE wanted to speak with JY, while they were enroute to Raleigh , and his mother said he couldn't speak with them. I wonder if this was before or after he hung up on them? Mrs. Young supposedly reassured them they were on the way back .

MOO Aggie
This was posted as a rumor before the Feb. SW were made public. We now know for a fact Jason spoke with LE.

[5swab5]

I probably would too. Gerald had some knowledge of police obviously. Heck, maybe he has posted on crime based message boards in the past? Lord knows we have discussed comparing evidence in other cases so maybe someone in that family was a crime junkie like us.

IF the original rumors are true, Gerald has a first hand working knowledge of LE and the courts.

MOO

Swabby

Please don't scream at me, if this has already been mentioned. I am a little behind on this thread. :)

[bookie]

I think the dead spot was in Raleigh. But if it is true that detectives are allowed to lie about anything and everything I do not know how I can believe anything they say. Did Jason hang up on them? Maybe everything we think we know about this case is based on lies by the detectives.



This must be the first case you have ever followed if you don't know that police are allowed to lie to suspects/witnesses. A little research will answer the question for you. Call your local police department and ask a detective if you don't believe they are allowed to lie.




Suffolk County homicide detective James McCready bragged about the way he tricked 17 year old Martin Tankleff into confessing to the murder of Tankleff's parents. McCready immediately focused on Martin's guilt, finding it suspicious that Martin slept undisturbed while his parents were attacked in a different part of the house. After hours of interrogation, McCready told Martin that his father had come out of a coma and had identified Martin as his assailant. McCready lied: Martin's father died without regaining consciousness. But the lie did its job:

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2004/04/04/644/36950

[bookie]

That is exactly what I thought. But where is the lie? The detectives told the judge they wanted to look for shoes and a shirtb. They did. But then they also took documents not described on the warrants. Maybe the lie was in that they did not tell the judge everythig they wanted to look for. They said Jason hung yup on them. How can anybody dispute that? How do we know what to believe even if it is in a sworn statement?




The documents that they took may eventually be thrown out if Jason goes to court. Michelle's death certificate had nothing to do with her murder.

I didn't say they lied on the warrant. You posted that maybe they weren't really looking for the shoes and shirt then comented about police being allowed to lie. I was clarifying that they can lie to suspects/witnesses but they can't lie to a judge even in a search warrant application.

[5swab5]

I think you can throw away common sense in such a horible tragedy. I would have been in no shape to drive. I don't knowq how Jason was at the time. A long time ago it was posted by someone that he did talk to Meredith and Cassie before he left Brevard.


I don't think Jason was in any shape to drive either. Sleep deprivation will do that to you.

My guess is that he slept all the way back to Raleigh.

MOO

Swabby

Wonder how many times he checked his voice mail during the hours directly after "falling plumb to his knees? Frequently?

[HI_CYCLE]

The documents that they took may eventually be thrown out if Jason goes to court. Michelle's death certificate had nothing to do with her murder.

I didn't say they lied on the warrant. You posted that maybe they weren't really looking for the shoes and shirt then comented about police being allowed to lie. I was clarifying that they can lie to suspects/witnesses but they can't lie to a judge even in a search warrant application.Lets not forget Cassidy`s therapist`s notes. I believe that will definitely get it thrown out of court and anything that should come out of the search. Of course I don`t believe they found anything,MOO

[5swab5]

Lets not forget Cassidy`s therapist`s notes. I believe that will definitely get it thrown out of court and anything that should come out of the search. Of course I don`t believe they found anything,MOO

It was NOT "therapist's notes"!

The seized item was a "progress report" for Cassidy.

They don't need it anyway, the State will have the therapist on the stand.

MOO

Swabby

[bookie]

I think I would call that lying by omission.



Call it what you will but lying on a search warrant application can result in evidence being thrown out in court.

[annalyzer]

Maybe the search for a shirt and shoes and inspection of furnture were just a cover for something else. I mean, maybe the detectives were looking for something else and used the other stuff as an excuse to look. I have been told that detectives are allowed to lie so why do we believe anything they tell us? I think I will not be critical of the detectives untl I see what they were really after.

I would think the shirt he was last seen in and the shoes that may have left prints at the murder scene would be more important than that.

[annalyzer]

It was NOT "therapist's notes"!

The seized item was a "progress report" for Cassidy.

They don't need it anyway, the State will have the therapist on the stand.

MOO

Swabby

Couldn't a progress report from a therapist be considered therapist's notes? :shrug:

[Barbara2]

Couldn't a progress report from a therapist be considered therapist's notes? :shrug:

The notes would contain a lot more information. The progress report would contain generalizations and not necessarily details. IMO

[HI_CYCLE]

I would think the shirt he was last seen in and the shoes that may have left prints at the murder scene would be more important than that.
AND........... They knew in advance they were planning on getting DNA because to collect it LE had to take the tools with them to collect the DNA.......oops,another minor act of stupidity.

[HI_CYCLE]

Couldn't a progress report from a therapist be considered therapist's notes? :shrug:
Absolutely..

[HI_CYCLE]

The notes would contain a lot more information. The progress report would contain generalizations and not necessarily details. IMOTell that to a judge when you try to get it into evidence. NO WAY..

[HI_CYCLE]

Ya think ?

There is nothing I read in any of the SW's that appears to be a lie.
If a cop intentionally lies to a judge to get a SW, that is perjury and he will be held accountable. I doubt nailing Jason Young with lies to a judge is worth the criminal consequences.
Do you think they had a SW to obtain DNA from furniture in the shed? I didn`t see it. Obtained W/O a SW for it.:no:

[bookie]

Ya think ?

There is nothing I read in any of the SW's that appears to be a lie.
If a cop intentionally lies to a judge to get a SW, that is perjury and he will be held accountable. I doubt nailing Jason Young with lies to a judge is worth the criminal consequences.



If you had followed along you'd see I wasn't talking about this case specifically but clarifying for the poster who seems to doubt police are allowed to lie to suspects/witnesses. :rolleyes:

[bookie]

Do you think they had a SW to obtain DNA from furniture in the shed? I didn`t see it. Obtained W/O a SW for it.:no:



If you are talking about the storage unit they did have a warrant to obtain dna samples from the furniture. It's talked about on page 16 of the Feb 14th warrant.

[HI_CYCLE]

If you are talking about the storage unit they did have a warrant to obtain dna samples from the furniture. It's talked about on page 16 of the Feb 14th warrant.
TY for correcting me. I will run and re-read it.I need too any way.

[5swab5]

From the point of view, of someone that thinks that Jason is guilty, something occurred to me.

Lots has been said in recent months about the effect that shows like CSI have had on juries.

I was reviewing this board and thinking that the "effect" is a two-way street.

Only a small percentage of people ever see the inside of a Courtroom, but CSI type shows are beamed right into our living rooms.

In the olden days, all anyone had was the SODDI defense. That has now been expanded to include:

Framed
Sloppy Police Work
Rush To Judgment
Tried in The Press
False Confessions
Tunnel Vision
Legal Technicalities
Circumstantial evidence isn't as important as Direct Evidence


That's just off the top of my head, I'm sure there are others. But the fact remains, that these all too common defense strategies are now well known with the public at large, and I think that is a good thing.

I have seen all of them used here and more. But people across this good Nation are sick and tired of offenders getting away with Murder. I am sure that the good Citizens of N.C. chosen for jury duty will feel no differently.

MOO

Swabby

K.I.S.S. method is the way to go. Plain and simple.

[Cardinal]

The documents that they took may eventually be thrown out if Jason goes to court. Michelle's death certificate had nothing to do with her murder.

I didn't say they lied on the warrant. You posted that maybe they weren't really looking for the shoes and shirt then comented about police being allowed to lie. I was clarifying that they can lie to suspects/witnesses but they can't lie to a judge even in a search warrant application.

In the execution of a SW, items other than those specified in the SW may be seized they constitute evidence of a crime:


http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/PDF/BySection/Chapter_15A/GS_15A-253.pdf

http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/PDF/BySection/Chapter_15A/GS_15A-242.pdf

My guess is they took the therapist's notes in order to identify the therapist and the nature of her work with Cassidy. If that's meaningful, I think they'd subpoena the therapist rather than try to introduce the progress report.

As for the death certificate, that's a public record. It can be introduced regardless.

JMO

[annalyzer]

No doubt about that. But I believe the detectives have the shirt and the shoes. ~snip


Oh sweetie, if LE had the bloody shirt and shoes Jason would've been arrested.

[bookie]

From the point of view, of someone that thinks that Jason is guilty, something occurred to me.

Lots has been said in recent months about the effect that shows like CSI have had on juries.

I was reviewing this board and thinking that the "effect" is a two-way street.

Only a small percentage of people ever see the inside of a Courtroom, but CSI type shows are beamed right into our living rooms.

In the olden days, all anyone had was the SODDI defense. That has now been expanded to include:

Framed
Sloppy Police Work
Rush To Judgment
Tried in The Press
False Confessions
Tunnel Vision
Legal Technicalities
Circumstantial evidence isn't as important as Direct Evidence


That's just off the top of my head, I'm sure there are others. But the fact remains, that these all too common defense strategies are now well known with the public at large, and I think that is a good thing.

I have seen all of them used here and more. But people across this good Nation are sick and tired of offenders getting away with Murder. I am sure that the good Citizens of N.C. chosen for jury duty will feel no differently.

MOO

Swabby

K.I.S.S. method is the way to go. Plain and simple.



CSI type shows may help you form your opinion but not mine. I don't need a tv show to tell me police needing to go back, a year later, to a crime scene they had possession of for almost 2 weeks isn't stellar police work.

And it's people like Nancy grace, a former prosecutor, and Catherine Crier, a former judge, who are responsible for suspects being tried in the press.

Other people across the nation are tired of innocent people spending any time in prisons for crimes they didn't commit.

[annalyzer]

snip~
I have seen all of them used here and more. But people across this good Nation are sick and tired of offenders getting away with Murder. I am sure that the good Citizens of N.C. chosen for jury duty will feel no differently.




Yep, a good defense attorney will use just about anything to win his case. But let's not forget that those same people who are sick and tired of offenders getting away with murder are the ones judging them at trial: the general public.

[bookie]

In the execution of a SW, items other than those specified in the SW may be seized they constitute evidence of a crime:


http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/PDF/BySection/Chapter_15A/GS_15A-253.pdf

http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/PDF/BySection/Chapter_15A/GS_15A-242.pdf

My guess is they took the therapist's notes in order to identify the therapist and the nature of her work with Cassidy. If that's meaningful, I think they'd subpoena the therapist rather than try to introduce the progress report.

As for the death certificate, that's a public record. It can be introduced regardless.

JMO


I never said they couldn't collect other evidence. Michelle's death certificate obviously has nothing to do with her murder since it wasn't issued until after she had died. Possessing a loved one's death certificate isn't sinister so I don't know how the police would justify taking that.

[annalyzer]

snip~ And it's people like Nancy grace, a former prosecutor, and Catherine Crier, a former judge, who are responsible for suspects being tried in the press.



Love, Love, Love both of them! :patriot:

[bookie]

Oh sweetie, if LE had the bloody shirt and shoes Jason would've been arrested.



The police have to list items found during a search. They don't have either listed so I doubt they have either.

[annalyzer]

In the execution of a SW, items other than those specified in the SW may be seized they constitute evidence of a crime:


http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/PDF/BySection/Chapter_15A/GS_15A-253.pdf

http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/PDF/BySection/Chapter_15A/GS_15A-242.pdf

My guess is they took the therapist's notes in order to identify the therapist and the nature of her work with Cassidy. If that's meaningful, I think they'd subpoena the therapist rather than try to introduce the progress report.

As for the death certificate, that's a public record. It can be introduced regardless.

JMO


Isn't it sad that here we are, two years later, still guessing? :(

[bookie]

Love, Love, Love both of them! :patriot:



I would rather gouge my eyes out and pour acid in my ears then watch NG but each to their own.

[bookie]

No surprise.
NG normally supports the victim in crime, not the suspect.



It has nothing to do with who she supports and everything to do with the fact that she is rude and obnoxious and treats her guests like garbage.

[annalyzer]

I would rather gouge my eyes out and pour acid in my ears then watch NG but each to their own.


LOL I know a lot of people feel the same but since I rarely get to see her anymore because of my cable I love seeing her when I get the chance. I always liked her attitude. :tongue:

[5swab5]

CSI type shows may help you form your opinion but not mine. I don't need a tv show to tell me police needing to go back, a year later, to a crime scene they had possession of for almost 2 weeks isn't stellar police work.

And it's people like Nancy grace, a former prosecutor, and Catherine Crier, a former judge, who are responsible for suspects being tried in the press.

Other people across the nation are tired of innocent people spending any time in prisons for crimes they didn't commit.


I didn't say me. I said that others are now better versed in Defense Attorney tactics.

There is not a single thing that I listed, that hasn't been pulled out of Houdini's old hat on these boards to try and exonerate Jason.

Typical desperation.

MOO

Swabby

[5swab5]

I never said they couldn't collect other evidence. Michelle's death certificate obviously has nothing to do with her murder since it wasn't issued until after she had died. Possessing a loved one's death certificate isn't sinister so I don't know how the police would justify taking that.


You have no way of knowing what was written, doodled, added or scratched out on it.

MOO

Swabby

[JHP]

I don't know if it would justify taking it, but maybe the original had the time of death on it. There is a box for that on the documet.

Or maybe somone had altered it in someway such as writing a different time of death. I had always thought it was unusual for LE to take a death certificate. I would think they could get one themselves pretty easily. Also, progress reports from Cassidys therapist. I don't think it's usual practice to send a report home. But I've never known a child that was in Cassidy's situation.

JMO

[5swab5]

No surprise.
NG normally supports the victim in crime, not the suspect.

Yep,

Instead of sitting there all day long, every day making excuses for murderers, (Jamie Floyd) Nancy Grace is a true victims advocate!

The world needs more like her!

MOO

Swabby

[annalyzer]

snip~
As for Meredith, other than some very dated paragraphs and the 911 call, I haven't seen people offer any reason she could be guilty. I have asked, several times, but those things have always been the only answers I got.

JMO


She was there, she found the body. Often the murderer is the one that "finds" the body.

Not saying I suspect MF but those are some other reasons.

[bookie]

She treats rude and obnoxious criminal defense attorneys like the garbage they are.


Mark Lunsford had NOTHING to do with his daughters disappearance and murder but she treated him like garbage because of his looks. She is lower than slime.

[bookie]

I don't know if it would justify taking it, but maybe the original had the time of death on it. There is a box for that on the documet.


That doesn't give the police reason to take it.

[annalyzer]

Is she the one who drove some poor woman to suicide? Or maybe that is just a rumor I heard somewhere? .


Must've been rumor because NG didn't "drive" anyone to suicide. The woman in question had the option of ending the interview if she didn't want to be asked hard questions. IMO

o/t but does anyone have the video, audio or transcript of that interview of Melinda Duckett?

[bookie]

Is she the one who drove some poor woman to suicide? Or maybe that is just a rumor I heard somewhere? I think everone should support the victim and condemn the guilty while giving suspects the benefit of a doubt.


Melinda Duckett committed suicide hours after being grilled by Nancy Grace. Her show had no compassion and aired the video with a banner down bottom saying she'd killed herself. MD's family now has a civil suit against NG that the courts ruled will go to trial despite her attorney's trying to get it dismissed.

She invites people on her show then ridicules and mocks them while cutting them off and not letting them finish what they are trying to say. She is no one's hero or advocate. She is a bitter woman who thinks she is the only one who is right and everyone had better agree with her.

[5swab5]

She was there, she found the body. Often the murderer is the one that "finds" the body.

Not saying I suspect MF but those are some other reasons.

Please don't make me type this again.:)

Even the PC section of the SW states that Jason SENT Meredith to BirchLeaf.

I am sure that this FACT was not only verified, but verified over and over again.

Darn those pesky phone records.

MOO

Swabby

That pesky shirt. So many pesky things. MM for another.

[JHP]

He knew this because the first call to his Mom was LF and she was talking about blood all over the place and Michelle being dead. The Mom thought Michelle died of another miscarriage until MF called later and explained it to her. How much later I don't know.

Was there a link to this? IIRC it was all rumor, no one really knew for sure.

[annalyzer]

Mark Lunsford had NOTHING to do with his daughters disappearance and murder but she treated him like garbage because of his looks. She is lower than slime.

Yeah but for how long, how many times? I also questioned whether he was involved at first, until I saw him a couple more times talking to the press. :shrug:

[bookie]

Yeah but for how long, how many times? I also questioned whether he was involved at first, until I saw him a couple more times talking to the press. :shrug:



Until police had arrested Couey if not longer. She had ML guilty because of his looks and lifestyle and she wasn't giving that up easily.

[5swab5]

Melinda Duckett committed suicide hours after being grilled by Nancy Grace. Her show had no compassion and aired the video with a banner down bottom saying she'd killed herself. MD's family now has a civil suit against NG that the courts ruled will go to trial despite her attorney's trying to get it dismissed.

She invites people on her show then ridicules and mocks them while cutting them off and not letting them finish what they are trying to say. She is no one's hero or advocate. She is a bitter woman who thinks she is the only one who is right and everyone had better agree with her.


Guilty consciences cause people to do strange things. Haven't found that little boy yet either, now have they?

Can't wait for Nancy to sink her talons into the Brevard clan!

MOO

Swabby

[annalyzer]

snip~

Even the PC section of the SW states that Jason SENT Meredith to BirchLeaf.




IIRC it says, paraphrased, "according to Meredith".

[annalyzer]

Until police had arrested Couey if not longer. She had ML guilty because of his looks and lifestyle and she wasn't giving that up easily.

Well okay but we'd better drop this o/t before CW comes in here and cleans house. :chicken:

[bookie]

Guilty consciences cause people to do strange things. Haven't found that little boy yet either, now have they?

Can't wait for Nancy to sink her talons into the Brevard clan!

MOO

Swabby



Since the police just released an age enhanced photo of him obviously they don't think he's dead either. He might have been found by now if NG's show didn't lie to MD about why they wanted her on the show that day. But like Anna just said....we'd best get back on topic.

[5swab5]

Wait until Det. Spivey's email is read to the jury. LOL


What is this email that I keep seeing mentioned here every once in a while?

TIA

Swabby

[JHP]

Well there is no link but there are people that really know. Would you have me invite them to meet you for coffee ?

Anytime june, I'd love to meet you for coffee. However I'm afraid I would only believe them if it was Meredith or Linda. Maybe the next time I'm in NC it can be arranged.

[5swab5]

Well there is no link but there are people that really know. Would you have me invite them to meet you for coffee ?


By all means!

Get them to talk to someone in LE, instead of a poster on a message board. Lotta' good that is going to do.

MOO

Swabby

[annalyzer]

What is this email that I keep seeing mentioned here every once in a while?

TIA

Swabby

Scout around, you'll find it.

[JHP]

I'll arrange it . I'm sure MF and LF would be happy to clear it up for you.

Wonderful! Can't wait, I hope Linda Fisher can make it into town. At the moment I won't be there until June. I hope there's an arrest before then. But strange things do happen. Maybe I can be there sooner.

[5swab5]

Scout around, you'll find it.


???????????????

[Cardinal]

Wait until Det. Spivey's email is read to the jury. LOL

How would that get admitted into evidence, June? IIRC, it said nothing about the facts of the case.

JMO

[bookie]

Scout around, you'll find it.



If it's something that can't be posted would you pm me a link?

[annalyzer]

How would that get admitted into evidence, June? IIRC, it said nothing about the facts of the case.

JMO

It said nothing of any evidentiary value period.

[5swab5]

It said nothing of any evidentiary value period.

Just as I suspected.

Thanks,

Swabby

[annalyzer]

In a nut shell, the lead detective said:
"While other forums have,for some inexplicable reason, stooped to trashing a murder victim, her mother, and her sister, your forum seems to have remained above the fray."

And that will help in a civil trial how?

[annalyzer]

You need to read the rest of the e-mail for that.
No, i'm not gonna post it or PM it to anyone.


I've read it. Don't you think if there were questions of the detective
that he'd testify in person instead of showing a personal email?

[5swab5]

In a nutshell, the lead detective said:
"While other forums have,for some inexplicable reason, stooped to trashing a murder victim, her mother, and her sister, your forum seems to have remained above the fray."

Thanks Brooklyn,

Sounds innocuous enough for me.

MOO

Swabby

[5swab5]

You need to read the rest of the e-mail for that.
No, i'm not gonna post it or PM it to anyone.


Gotcha!
Deep dark secrets.

Now you have me intrigued.

MOO

Swabby

[annalyzer]

Yes, I feel quite sure he will testify on the stand.
The e-mail is just a time stamped basis for the libel spewed
against the Fisher's from several posters that are known to LE.

Oh lol. I thought you were referring to a civil trial with the Fisher's suing JY for wrongful death.

Don't hold your breath on the other. LOL

[annalyzer]

Gotcha!
Deep dark secrets.

Now you have me intrigued.

MOO

Swabby


Weren't you here in May? Surely Brooklyn will be nice enough to pm it to you.

[annalyzer]

Don't worry annalyzer, they are not interested in libel spewed on this forum.


Worrying never crossed my mind.

[5swab5]

Weren't you here in May? Surely Brooklyn will be nice enough to pm it to you.

I guess not. We left before Mother's Day.

Once again I have to apologize for my shortcomings.

When I leave town...I am gone for weeks.

Swabby

ZERO computer access.

[sonya]

Gotcha!
Deep dark secrets.

Now you have me intrigued.

MOO

Swabby

The e-mail from Det. Spivey also stated that he and the other detectives would never take their own families to functions with people they couldn't trust, he was speaking about the Lady Bug Lift-Off thrown in honor of Michelle, by her mother and sister. The detectives had their families with them when they attended the memorial for Michelle, and he also stated that they appreciated Linda and Meredith and their patience while the murder was being solved. So, in short, it seemed to say that Meredith was not a suspect in the murder of her sister.

[bookie]

Yes, I feel quite sure he will testify on the stand.
The e-mail is just a time stamped basis for the libel spewed
against the Fisher's from several posters that are known to LE.


Messageboards are a place for people to post their opinions. Many of the posts acknowledge that they are opinions in some way. Some have it in their sig lines (like me), others have it in their locations and others type it at the end of their posts.

There has been a ton more libel spewed here about Jason's family, without the use of IMO, then there ever was about Michelle's family. I wonder how Det Spivey feels about Jason's sisters and mother being libeled on these boards?

BTW....thanks for the pm's Anna. I had to cook dinner so I was able to read them a few minutes ago. I'd seen parts of the email discussed but never read it.

[Barbara2]

it's unrealistic to believe a detective cares about libel other than why someone feels the need to lie about anyone in the victim's family. Detectives themselves can lie, say anything they want, including telling somebody something they know they want to hear.

People close to a murder suspect have been known to tell people what they want them to believe and repeat as well. They are not necessarily telling the truth. IMO

[Barbara2]

Maybe lie to give a false sense of security as they did in the Susan Smith case? Some are assuming that because LE wrote an email that Meredith isn't a suspect. I think that's a false assumption to make.

There were plenty of reasons to believe that Susan Smith was guilty of killing her children. I've seen no reason to believe that Meredith is guilty of anything other than trusting her brother in law. IMO

[bookie]

You seem to think the detective wrote the letter to give Meredith a false sense of security. Is that right? The detective lied to make her think she was ot a suspect? I still do not see what the detective would gain by doing that.



Telling a suspect that they aren't a suspect might make them loosen up and reveal something incriminating to others or get rid of evidence when they think they aren't being watched. And no, I'm not saying that happened with Meredith.

[Barbara2]

Where did I say Meredith is guilty? Do you believe a suspect is always guilty?

I don't believe she's a suspect. JMO

[Kat4Eagles]

That certainly is an eye opener for me. Thank you, Analyzer for finding it. That stll does not convince me the detectives are not working on Michelle's murder. We learned a long time ago that the detectives traveled to several other states in their investigation of this case. We also learned the detectives have been to Brevard several times. Maybe the detectives are investigating other leads as we speak. We just don't know what they are doing.


:no:
We don't know the detectives have been to Brevard at all, let alone several times.

How did Philly get associated with crimes from Raleigh?


Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Oh sweetie, if LE had the bloody shirt and shoes Jason would've been arrested.



Yep.

:biggrin:

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

I didn't say me. I said that others are now better versed in Defense Attorney tactics.

There is not a single thing that I listed, that hasn't been pulled out of Houdini's old hat on these boards to try and exonerate Jason.

Typical desperation.

MOO

Swabby

But we are not the ones that are desperate to have Jason arrested, you are.

:)

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

The documents that they took may eventually be thrown out if Jason goes to court. Michelle's death certificate had nothing to do with her murder.

.

Has anyone come up with an explanation, of why L E took a "copy" of Michelle's death certificate?

:confused:

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

I believe you have a point about the several times. They did go to Brevard at least once with warrants. I do not know anythng about Philly.



There have been no reports that L E has ever been to Brevard, except, like you said to carry out the search warrants.

I don't understand what Philly has to do with Raleigh, our crime rate has always been off the charts.

Oh, well.

Kat

[bookie]

Has anyone come up with an explanation, of why L E took a "copy" of Michelle's death certificate?

:confused:

Kat

One poster told me I didn't know what might have been doodled or written on it and one thought maybe it had the time of death and the police didn't want that information public. I don't think either is very likely.

[Kat4Eagles]

It said nothing of any evidentiary value period.

I thought it was junk email, it was never proven who it was from and was removed from this forum for being questionable.

But, we could run it by CW....again.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

And that will help in a civil trial how?


There won't be a civil trial unless an arrest is made by Nov..2nd, 2008.

5 weeks.

The clock is running down !

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Worrying never crossed my mind.

Maybe we were supposed to believe that someone dressed up as a lady bug in a public park in the middle of the afternoon is someone that L E is going to bring in their enitre SWAT team for?

A fly swatter could have worked too.

:shrug:


New thread in the am, please.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

The e-mail from Det. Spivey also stated that .
<snipped>

We were told not to discuss this matter here.

:no:

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

One poster told me I didn't know what might have been doodled or written on it and one thought maybe it had the time of death and the police didn't want that information public. I don't think either is very likely.


I see.

Thank you, Bookie.

:)
Kat

[5swab5]

Maybe we were supposed to believe that someone dressed up as a lady bug in a public park in the middle of the afternoon is someone that L E is going to bring in their enitre SWAT team for?

A fly swatter could have worked too.

:shrug:


New thread in the am, please.

Kat


Too bad Jason couldn't see fit to take Cassidy to celebrate her Mother's life.

In fact, too bad Jason hasn't given a flying-purple ***From the moment he slayed Michelle!

MOO

Swabby

[5swab5]

We were told not to discuss this matter here.

:no:

Kat


Since When?

You made me look.

I see NOTHING in TOS that addresses that issue.

Is Gerald,
Embezzlement,
Michelle Money,
Extra Marital affairs,
Michelle & Jason's wedding rings, also off limits?

What's next?

ANYTHING & EVERYTHING against Jason Lynn YOUNG?

JUSTICE wants to know.

MOO

Swabby