Friday Afternoon/Early Evening Discussion - September 12th

[ccat]

:shrug: I don't know what to think anymore. I do think that Caylee is well hidden, wherever she is. imo
Yes, Joan. I agree. I think Casey knows they will not find a trace and that is why she is so smug and confident. Time is on her side.

[Oregongal]

The words I have to describe people who actually IDENTIFY with casey Anthony would make you all tyhink alot less of me, and likely get me banned for life. It is just unbelieveable that people are telling her to look for the "rainbow after the storm"...what stinking rainbow decorates your life after you "lose" your child...not lost because someone took her from you, but because you "lost" her...:flamemad:
I could see telling her you are praying for her or being nice and encouraging her to do the right thing ( neither of which I think will do more than stroke her already formidable ego)...but to actually believe in her?!?! just goes to prove that htere are more maladjusted people in the world than any of us are comfortable thinking about...and some here are worrieed about the Protesters? trust me, there are far more disturbed people than them in this world.
JMO...mini rant, I really am icked out, disgusted, and mortally offended by Casey Anthony. Esp. today for my own reasons.

For you OneUp...:rose:
Hope tomorrow is better.

[bchand]

Hello, I'm new here, well not really I was here a long time ago... I just feel like I'm new... Anyway, I was thinking about creating a thread with links to the official docs online and audio files, video etc. Is that allowed on this board? andis there already a post with it? I tried searching for one but could not find one with all of it in it.

ty :)


Hi Lorakai - welcome.

See the links page:

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=338043

[Joan Weiss]

Hello, I'm new here, well not really I was here a long time ago... I just feel like I'm new... Anyway, I was thinking about creating a thread with links to the official docs online and audio files, video etc. Is that allowed on this board? andis there already a post with it? I tried searching for one but could not find one with all of it in it.

ty :)There already is one, it's called the "links sticky," but thank you for the offer.

Welcome back. :seeya:

[Laurieann]

Little bitty brought out a good point tonight in our phone call...she said once they told her they believed she was lying...she closed herself off...and of course hired a lawyer..


When she said she would turn over her lap top and do whatever to help...I wish they had said ..ok lets go take a LDT...

See, I think she closed herself off and lawyered up when she realized they weren't going to play her game, by her rules.
She still talked to them and even offered her computer after they called her a liar, but she was still trying to play. ie "I wish I had more to tell you to help you" (paraphrased) IMO it was an invitation to LE to keep comming back and play some more.
when she lawyered up, it was more like a "hey, you guys aren't playing fair! I'm gonna take my ball and go home!" than it was that she was pissed for being called a liar.
kwim?

[mags]

I have posted on this forum before for one other case. It seems I was no longer registered. Oh well. I knew I could come here for some up to date information.

I was really hoping she would be rearrested today but her day will come.

This may have been brought up before but this really bothers me. The Anthonys always wearing those butterfly shirts for Caylee. I always butterflys were symbolic of death of a loved one.

[anyonesguess]

The bit about her not wanting him to open the trunk was overdone imo. I think the purpose of that story was 1. Casey has nothing to hide but gas cans and 2. There was no stench in the car.

He opened the trunk on the 24th. Where was Caylee then? Noone had seen her since the 16th. So where was she from the 16th - 24th? I have said I do believe George at the very least DID smell something when he opened the trunk that day imo. I believe he had smelled something in his back yard sometime from the 16th - 24th, and knew that it didn't bode well, and so he insisted on getting the "chocks from the car" to see if Caylee was possibly in the trunk imo.

[n/t]

Well I wonder if Baez will use that as a defense ?

How can he? She was never diagnosed with it and never exhibited any of the symptoms described in the link I posted. At least none that we're aware of. He can try, I suppose, but it won't work. Also, she had psych evaluations done so we'll have to wait and see but imo, she's exhibits psychopathology symptoms. I don't remember the name of the guest on Nancy Grace at the very beginning of the case who said Casey has ALL of the hallmarks of a Psychopath. She was right.

[day2day]

thanks house. There is just something wrong here and it is just not psychopath. I might be wrong, but my instincts as a medical person tell me this. If i knew baez' phone number i'd call him in a heartbeat.

Isabelle,
ray'smom

1-800-693-9565

[Oregongal]

At Anytime during interrogation, Casey (if she'd been smart enough) could have said "I have a right to have an attorney present during questioning" which doesn't make you automatically guilty, but is there for your protection. Can everything she has said be thrown out because she didn't have a lawyer present? She could claim harrassment , Etc.

She was advised of her Miranda rights, so no.

[ginky41]

1-800-693-9565

Dang Day...you're good!


:seeya:

[msjoni]

He opened the trunk on the 24th. Where was Caylee then? Noone had seen her since the 16th. So where was she from the 16th - 24th? I have said I do believe George at the very least DID smell something when he opened the trunk that day imo. I believe he had smelled something in his back yard sometime from the 16th - 24th, and knew that it didn't bode well, and so he insisted on getting the "chocks from the car" to see if Caylee was possibly in the trunk imo.

Do you think George helped cover it up? I'm beginning to....

[Joan Weiss]

At Anytime during interrogation, Casey (if she'd been smart enough) could have said "I have a right to have an attorney present during questioning" which doesn't make you automatically guilty, but is there for your protection. Can everything she has said be thrown out because she didn't have a lawyer present? She could claim harrassment , Etc.That was discussed on Nancy Grace tonight. A legal TH said no problems with that interrogation, they mirandized her and it WILL make it into court. imo

[dixie77]

I agree, I think they needed to let her talk more.
==============

I wish they would have asked her....."if u dont have a job, then why do u need a babysitter.....and where do spend your days"? JMO

[hamebone]

Thanks house. There is just something wrong here and it is just not psychopath. I might be wrong, but my instincts as a medical person tell me this. If I knew Baez' phone number I'd call him in a heartbeat.

Isabelle,
Ray'sMom

Call 800-693-9565 to Talk to a Florida Criminal Defense Lawyer at Baez Law Firm in Central Florida.

http://www.baezlawfirm.com/

[day2day]

Dang Day...you're good!


:seeya:

lol.thanks ginky! :seeya:

[msjoni]

Split brain syndrome is not an analogy. It is a very real condition. For more info see my link on an earlier post.

Isabelle,
Ray'sMom

Wouldn't the psych's in the jail notice this and run medical tests? For all we know she did have medical tests.........

[n/t]

Thanks house. There is just something wrong here and it is just not psychopath. I might be wrong, but my instincts as a medical person tell me this. If I knew Baez' phone number I'd call him in a heartbeat.

Isabelle,
Ray'sMom

I disagree. She exhibits all the signs, imo. This is just one link....


The psychopath is one of the most fascinating and distressing problems of human experience. For the most part, a psychopath never remains attached to anyone or anything. They live a "predatory" lifestyle. They feel little or no regret, and little or no remorse - except when they are caught. They need relationships, but see people as obstacles to overcome and be eliminated. If not, they see people in terms of how they can be used. They use people for stimulation, to build their self-esteem and they invariably value people in terms of their material value (money, property, etc..).

A psychopath can have high verbal intelligence, but they typically lack "emotional intelligence". They can be expert in manipulating others by playing to their emotions. There is a shallow quality to the emotional aspect of their stories (i.e., how they felt, why they felt that way, or how others may have felt and why). The lack of emotional intelligence is the first good sign you may be dealing with a psychopath. A history of criminal behavior in which they do not seem to learn from their experience, but merely think about ways to not get caught is the second best sign.

http://www.oregoncounseling.org/Handouts/PsychopathicPersonality.htm

[kakax]

1-800-693-9565


:biggrin: oh the things I could do with this number.

[EGirl]

I think she always has meant that her father cleaned up her mess and she has no idea what he did with her remains. I'm still pretty firm on that Joan I go a little back n forth but not much. I believe that when he opened her trunk he found Caylees body. And the cover up began then, early on. For all we know George could have driven that car to Amscott. Because we all know that Casey didnt stand there from 7am until 1 2pm with groceries in her arms. Casey said her dad was going to help her with the car. I believe that he did alright. I seriously do.

Dots

I have only, in the last few days, started to believe that George helped with the clean up. BUT, not when he opened the trunk the day he found the gas cans. I think when he picked up the car at the tow yard and then went and searched the backyard, moving the playhouse and sandbox, that's when I think he found Caylee.


IMO that is the ONLY way I can make sense of the Anthony's focusing all of their energy on saving Casey, because they KNOW Caylee is gone. And have known since the day they picked up that car.

JMO

[Oregongal]

I think the biggest mistake was arresting her too soon instead of following her around, bugging the phone etc. But maybe they couldnt do that because of having to take the car because it smelled like decomp?
:shrug:

Could it be that they were afraid she'd run? She did say in there that if she wanted to get rid of Caylee she would have left her with her parents and gone somewhere.
:shrug:

[Takotna]

I think she always has meant that her father cleaned up her mess and she has no idea what he did with her remains. I'm still pretty firm on that Joan I go a little back n forth but not much. I believe that when he opened her trunk he found Caylees body. And the cover up began then, early on. For all we know George could have driven that car to Amscott. Because we all know that Casey didnt stand there from 7am until 1 2pm with groceries in her arms. Casey said her dad was going to help her with the car. I believe that he did alright. I seriously do.

Dots

Hi Dots - You and I are still on the same page about George! Re the car - somehow he knew it was out of gas and he told the tow man his g'daughter was missing - not Casey. These little tidbits could only mean he'd had contact with Casey. (Not to mention all the other obvious stuff)

There are too many questions about G and his unexplained absences.

AllMO:)

[Joan Weiss]

See, I think she closed herself off and lawyered up when she realized they weren't going to play her game, by her rules.
She still talked to them and even offered her computer after they called her a liar, but she was still trying to play. ie "I wish I had more to tell you to help you" (paraphrased) IMO it was an invitation to LE to keep comming back and play some more.
when she lawyered up, it was more like a "hey, you guys aren't playing fair! I'm gonna take my ball and go home!" than it was that she was pissed for being called a liar.
kwim?She was arrested before she hired the lawyer. In fact, she hired him while in jail. imo

[barskin&co.]

How can he? She was never diagnosed with it and never exhibited any of the symptoms described in the link I posted. At least none that we're aware of. He can try, I suppose, but it won't work. Also, she had psych evaluations done so we'll have to wait and see but imo, she's exhibits psychopathology symptoms. I don't remember the name of the guest on Nancy Grace at the very beginning of the case who said Casey has ALL of the hallmarks of a Psychopath. She was right.


Oh for pity's sake. She is just a psychopath, or a sociopath, if you will. There is no "illness." It's not like she is deluded. She knows she's lying. When LE finally has her backed in a corner, she admits she lied. Then she tries new lies- like her "30 day script" story. :rolleyes:

[joolz]

Split brain syndrome is not an analogy. It is a very real condition. For more info see my link on an earlier post.

Isabelle,
Ray'sMom


I didn't say it was an analogy. I said that Stevenson's story uses an analogy. It's a literary interpretation, not a medical one.

[baywench]

==============

I wish they would have asked her....."if u dont have a job, then why do u need a babysitter.....and where do spend your days"? JMO

I really don't think it's a matter of asking her the right questions unfortunately. She bold-faced lied about everything. She would have lied about that too. None of the cop tricks worked on her. She will never talk imo.

[dixie77]

Do you think George helped cover it up? I'm beginning to....
============

Yes....along with Cindy. If i'm wrong, i'll be the first to post an apology. JMO

[day2day]

:biggrin: oh the things I could do with this number.

Mmm..he does give his clients VERY personal attention!! hammer

[Joan Weiss]

Rather than rehash and rehash with really nothing new but her taped interrogations, go read and post at the IF Caylee were to come home thread. You really can't beat a dead horse, lose sleep, not eat over this child that her family doesn't even look for. I love all of you for caring and searching but hey, until someone talks besides us, the case won't be resolved. It may never be as sad as that is. JMOIn your opinion. We'll post wherever we like, thank you very much. In MY opinon.

[dixie77]

I really don't think it's a matter of asking her the right questions unfortunately. She bold-faced lied about everything. She would have lied about that too. None of the cop tricks worked on her. She will never talk imo.
=========

U r right. but it sure would have answered questions for me. JMO

[purplepoints]

Thanks house. There is just something wrong here and it is just not psychopath. I might be wrong, but my instincts as a medical person tell me this. If I knew Baez' phone number I'd call him in a heartbeat.

Isabelle,
Ray'sMom
http://www.baezlawfirm.com/

[hamebone]

Split brain syndrome is not an analogy. It is a very real condition. For more info see my link on an earlier post.

Isabelle,
Ray'sMom

I thought SNS happens/ or may happen after a callosotomy...

[ginky41]

Oh for pity's sake. She is just a psychopath, or a sociopath, if you will. There is no "illness." It's not like she is deluded. She knows she's lying. When LE finally has her backed in a corner, she admits she lied. Then she tries new lies- like her "30 day script" story. :rolleyes:

Methinks you've hit the nail on the head barskin. I still can't wrap my mind around that concept though. I can't identify with it at all...thankfully.

[kakax]

http://media.myfoxorlando.com/live/live10pm11pm.html

Live news at 11

[barskin&co.]

Rather than rehash and rehash with really nothing new but her taped interrogations, go read and post at the IF Caylee were to come home thread. You really can't beat a dead horse, lose sleep, not eat over this child that her family doesn't even look for. I love all of you for caring and searching but hey, until someone talks besides us, the case won't be resolved. It may never be as sad as that is. JMO

I'm not as pessimistic. Will Casey come clean? Nah, never. But I do think she will be convicted with a strong forensic and circumstancial case.

[Lorakai]

ty bc, and house :)

[Joan Weiss]

Oh for pity's sake. She is just a psychopath, or a sociopath, if you will. There is no "illness." It's not like she is deluded. She knows she's lying. When LE finally has her backed in a corner, she admits she lied. Then she tries new lies- like her "30 day script" story. :rolleyes:Yep. In jail she had plenty of time to think; she revised her story. imo

[Takotna]

I have only, in the last few days, started to believe that George helped with the clean up. BUT, not when he opened the trunk the day he found the gas cans. I think when he picked up the car at the tow yard and then went and searched the backyard, moving the playhouse and sandbox, that's when I think he found Caylee.


IMO that is the ONLY way I can make sense of the Anthony's focusing all of their energy on saving Casey, because they KNOW Caylee is gone. And have known since the day they picked up that car.

JMO

ITA - This would explain why the Anthonys aren't searching for Caylee -dead or alive. They already know. I think G was really busy between picking up the car and the 9:44pm 911 call.

AllMO:)

[day2day]

Day2day that is a really good point. That was the night that the 3rd 911 call was finally made?
Yes where was George Anthony. What was it about this family that he had to have Lee go "check on his family" much like in the McCann case, same thing, the father sent a friend to "check" on his wife. Very disturbing!! Not normal. I wonder, if it was a common occurrence. The drama and the fighting and the violence and again yes I DO believe there was violence in this home. Even casey said that Caylee was being exposed to fighting and she didnt want that.

It's one of the few tiny truths that I believe. The neighbors know.

I believe that it was the 15th, the next day Casey deleted the 200 pics of Casey from her puter :(. I believe the night of the 15th is VERY important. I have it all worked out in my head but will not post it.
Remember the neighbors also reported the "loud disturbance" on the
15th.
And yes -I believe this violence has been ongoing. The police have been to this house on several occasions before Caylee vanished.
all mo

[Joan Weiss]

I know that a brain tumor can cause seizures. Not calling 911 with some story or planning in any way for the day she would have to account for herself still has me stunned. Maybe this is part of sociopathy. I don't know. I only know that I have never seen it before.

The first thing I thought of was that she planned to party until time ran out and then kill herself.

MOOShe'll never kill herself. The act of murder is turned either inward (suicide) or outward (another individual). She was relieved after Caylee disappeared.

Tony's roomies said she was fun and the diligent little housewife/cook. imo

[anyonesguess]

Do you think George helped cover it up? I'm beginning to....

I have just always believed that he saw or smelled something on the 24th when he opened the trunk of the car.

I am wondering now if the 9th is a date they all came up with because it would have been a date that George didnt work, and they thought they could explain that he was at home when in fact he was covering up something.

I would be curious to know what his work schedule was from the 9th of June - 16th of July, and if he called in during any of those days, etc.

After he picked up the car, why didn't he then see Casey for the first time until right before the police came that evening. Where was he for the few hours after picking up the car, taking it home, cleaning it up, then calling Lee to get over to the house, etc. Where was GEORGE at when he called Lee and told him to go to the house, and why wasn't he at home himself until AFTER Cindy brought Casey home. :confused:

[WinnieLeigh7]

Oh for pity's sake. She is just a psychopath, or a sociopath, if you will. There is no "illness." It's not like she is deluded. She knows she's lying. When LE finally has her backed in a corner, she admits she lied. Then she tries new lies- like her "30 day script" story. :rolleyes:


i agree...

well maybe not with the 'illness' per se, because she's definitely one sick sick individual...

but i aint buying into any 'medical defense' type explanations.

casey knows what she's done, she knows it was wrong, now she's lying in attempt to cover her hide

[Joan Weiss]

I believe that it was the 15th, the next day Casey deleted the 200 pics of Casey from her puter :(. I believe the night of the 15th is VERY important. I have it all worked out in my head but will not post it.
Remember the neighbors also reported the "loud disturbance" on the
15th.
And yes -I believe this violence has been ongoing. The police have been to this house on several occasions before Caylee vanished.
all moThat's right. I forgot about the numerous police calls. Poor Caylee...:rose: imo

[summer4meplz]

I'm not as pessimistic. Will Casey come clean? Nah, never. But I do think she will be convicted with a strong forensic and circumstancial case.


she'll go to prison for a long long time on the current charges, imo...even if they never charge her for murder...

[JainDough]

I disagree. She exhibits all the signs, imo. This is just one link....


The psychopath is one of the most fascinating and distressing problems of human experience. For the most part, a psychopath never remains attached to anyone or anything. They live a "predatory" lifestyle. They feel little or no regret, and little or no remorse - except when they are caught. They need relationships, but see people as obstacles to overcome and be eliminated. If not, they see people in terms of how they can be used. They use people for stimulation, to build their self-esteem and they invariably value people in terms of their material value (money, property, etc..).

A psychopath can have high verbal intelligence, but they typically lack "emotional intelligence". They can be expert in manipulating others by playing to their emotions. There is a shallow quality to the emotional aspect of their stories (i.e., how they felt, why they felt that way, or how others may have felt and why). The lack of emotional intelligence is the first good sign you may be dealing with a psychopath. A history of criminal behavior in which they do not seem to learn from their experience, but merely think about ways to not get caught is the second best sign.

http://www.oregoncounseling.org/Handouts/PsychopathicPersonality.htm

Do you happen to know if there are varying degrees? I mean are all psychopaths likely to murder, or are there some people who affected by only a few of the symptoms? TIA

[Joan Weiss]

I don't know which is worse, but both make me nuts.

Isabelle,
Ray'sMomEXACTLY.
imo

[dixie77]

On the first tape.......where Casey says the Nanny took care of Caylee and the little boy...(sorry, i cant remember the lil boys fathers name).....but anyhow......has it ever been established that his son was being taken care of by anyone? I know it wasnt ZG.

[Amused]

In your opinion. We'll post wherever we like, thank you very much. In MY opinon.



Oh, thank goodness.

I thought we'd have to table our discussion and leave.


whew.

[bluwaters]

Too late to edit my post, so I am quoting my post.

For more on "Split Brain Syndrome" , see:www.indiana.edu/~pietsch/callosum.html

Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde aka split brain personality.
I would really like to know more about that "seizure" that Casey had that she had to be taken to the hospital for. Really want to know. Sorry, it's the medical part of me coming out.

Isabelle,
Ray'sMom
Thank you for that link. It looks very interesting.

[day2day]

That's right. I forgot about the numerous police calls. Poor Caylee...:rose: imo

It breaks my heart. She deserved so much more. Night ya'll...i have to get up at 5 and if i don't get some sleep..i'm gonna be a grouch tomorrow! Sweet dreams!!

[Joan Weiss]

I have just always believed that he saw or smelled something on the 24th when he opened the trunk of the car.

I am wondering now if the 9th is a date they all came up with because it would have been a date that George didnt work, and they thought they could explain that he was at home when in fact he was covering up something.

I would be curious to know what his work schedule was from the 9th of June - 16th of July, and if he called in during any of those days, etc.

After he picked up the car, why didn't he then see Casey for the first time until right before the police came that evening. Where was he for the few hours after picking up the car, taking it home, cleaning it up, then calling Lee to get over to the house, etc. Where was GEORGE at when he called Lee and told him to go to the house, and why wasn't he at home himself until AFTER Cindy brought Casey home. :confused:I think he went to work.

[msjoni]

Thanks dots. It may well have been an OD that caused an irregular heart rhythm and resulted in a clot to the brain, which could cause a seizure. And, I do believe a clot in the right place could interrupt the interaction between the two hemispheres of the brain, thus, split brain. I think it would be very rare, but possible.

Isabelle,
Ray'sMom

Then what would explain her behavior as a young teen denying the dog she was walking wasn't hers? From what I read she has always been a liar...

[Joan Weiss]

It breaks my heart. She deserved so much more. Night ya'll...i have to get up at 5 and if i don't get some sleep..i'm gonna be a grouch tomorrow! Sweet dreams!!Me, too. Sleep well. :seeya:

[bluwaters]

I'm off to bed too. Work tomorrow. Hopefully tomorrow Casey will crack and tell where she his the daughter she IMO, murdered and left alone.
G'night Rebel & Boxer :seeya:
Not much longer here for me either.

[ginky41]

That's right. I forgot about the numerous police calls. Poor Caylee...:rose: imo

Wait...I thought I knew everything about this case. (Well, except the important stuff, obviously - like where is Caylee?) But somehow I missed something. Several calls to 911? Police visiting the house on various occasions? Where can I read more about this?

[tiny paw-prints]

Day2day that is a really good point. That was the night that the 3rd 911 call was finally made?
Yes where was George Anthony. What was it about this family that he had to have Lee go "check on his family" much like in the McCann case, same thing, the father sent a friend to "check" on his wife. Very disturbing!! Not normal. I wonder, if it was a common occurrence. The drama and the fighting and the violence and again yes I DO believe there was violence in this home. Even casey said that Caylee was being exposed to fighting and she didnt want that.

It's one of the few tiny truths that I believe. The neighbors know.

I just recently read somewhere that George was previously married to a woman in Ohio in the early 70's, who claims he had a violent temper and was a habitual liar.

[hamebone]

SBS

The corpus collosum is the structure in the human brain that connects the left and right hemispheres, and allows them to communicate. Sometimes disease or a stroke will impact the collosum, damaging it. At other times, it may be sugically severed as an extreme measure to cure some types of drug-resistant epilepsy. As a result of the collotomy, split brain syndrome may develop in the patient.
Collotomized patients usually behave much like other people, but there are a few ways in which they are markedly different. Ask a patient to hold an object in their right hand and they will be able to name it. Tell them to pick it up with their left hand, and they will be at a complete loss for words. The same thing happened when the patient was asked to cover one eye and read words off of a card. As long as the right eye was covered, they were unable to do this. This is because the right side of the body is connected to the left hemisphere of the brain, which is the side responsible for language skills. With the pathway to the right hemisphere disabled, it is unable to communicate with the sensory hardware handled by that side, and thus unable to identify the object.

Once you realize this, you have no trouble at all understanding the next part of the test, where subjects were asked to fondle ten items behind a screen, and match them up to the image projected in front of their left eye. They had no trouble doing this, as the right hemisphere is better with abstract concepts and spatial relationships. They could even select the best match, i.e. if a pack of cigarettes were shown but not placed behind the screen, the right brain would select an ashtray.

The weird part is that after the collotomy, each hemisphere may develop a different personality with different emotions, so that an argument with a collotomized person might involve them giving you sober, well-reasoned arguments while their mute right brain expresses itself by bringing the left arm up to slap you.

Collotomized people eventually learn to live normal lives, as the two hemispheres learn to communicate using the relatively low-bandwidth spinal column. The hero of Stanislaw Lem's book Peace on Earth is a man who has had a collotomy.

http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=511029

I dont see it...I think she is just a sociopath

http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

Profile of the Sociopath
This website summarizes some of the common features of descriptions of the behavior of sociopaths.



Glibness and Superficial Charm


Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.


Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."


Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.


Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.


Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.


Incapacity for Love


Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.


Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.


Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.


Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.


Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.


Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.


Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.


Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

[Takotna]

I have just always believed that he saw or smelled something on the 24th when he opened the trunk of the car.

I am wondering now if the 9th is a date they all came up with because it would have been a date that George didnt work, and they thought they could explain that he was at home when in fact he was covering up something.

I would be curious to know what his work schedule was from the 9th of June - 16th of July, and if he called in during any of those days, etc.

After he picked up the car, why didn't he then see Casey for the first time until right before the police came that evening. Where was he for the few hours after picking up the car, taking it home, cleaning it up, then calling Lee to get over to the house, etc. Where was GEORGE at when he called Lee and told him to go to the house, and why wasn't he at home himself until AFTER Cindy brought Casey home. :confused:


Exactly - that's my main question - Where's George? Another thing that caught my attention surrounding the events of the evening of the 15th - he called Lee and was 'unable' to answer his phone when Cindy called him - he finally was able to get hold of her sometime later. (the whole phone call thing is scattered in about 3 places in the docs)

You'd think if G had just found and cleaned out the dead body car, sent Cindy to hunt down Casey, called Lee to get home ASAP - you'd think he'd at least answer the phone! This bugs me.

G must have had something very important to do in the middle of this family crisis.

AllMO:)

[steffaroob4]

I agree with that. Whenever she wanted to expand on something they already knew was a lie, they cut her off.

The more I think about these tapes the more it makes me think that LE thought she was hiding Caylee from her Cindy or sold her. I thought them asking her if ZFG gave her money was very interesting.

I don't think LE thought she was dead during these interviews, I think they were trying to get to admit to where she hid Caylee.

I know they were talking about her being dead, but it seems like they still had an open mind to it being something like child selling.

[ginky41]

I meant she'd kill herself rather than go to prison. And live life to the fullest before that time. She made NO plans to cover herself. She even burned more bridges. Why? Is it arrogance? It can't be simple stupidity.

I think she's much like SP in this respect. Her lies get her out of the pickle she's in at any given moment in time, she lacks any forward-thinking ability. I don't think she had some big grand plan for all of this. I think she acts in the moment without much thought to the immediate future let alone the distant future.

[BobbysGirl]

Yes, Joan. I agree. I think Casey knows they will not find a trace and that is why she is so smug and confident. Time is on her side.

Time is on her side, for the time being. If she was kept in jail w/o yo-yo's out there keep bailing her out she will still clam up.

I SAID BEFORE 3rd time is a charm. And it will not be hers. She will stay in jail and no one will post any more bonds. IMO She has used herself up. Threw her daughter away to God only knows and her day in court will come.

She has enablers, but IMO the LE have what they have and there will be no out for her. Cautious is. They LE, I am sure are fed up to the hilt. And poor darling Casey with no friends no, nothing has used up her lies to get out of her mess.

Sad, so very sad a dear sweet child is lost and gone forever. Time for the charade to stop. Caylee nor her family
<involved or not> will never have peace. They will wallow in self pity and what if for the rest of their lives. They will self destruct. It is a matter of time. IMO

:rose:

Caylee, we (I) are with you in life, love and Spirit. You will forever remain the beautiful child you are. And IMO, that is a promise.

BG

[kakax]

she'll go to prison for a long long time on the current charges, imo...even if they never charge her for murder...

I want a better charge than child neglect though. There has to be something else they can charge her with.

OT....Geraldo may be blown off the face of the earth....someone tell him to go inside LOL!

[anyonesguess]

If it was a COYA and they had my wheels spinning for weeks I will be a little miffed (would really rather use another word, but won't).

Thanks dots.

Isabelle,
Ray'sMom

I worked with a nurse once that had a glioma blastoma. She was saying she was doing patients treatments, giving their meds, and signing off that she gave them. When confronted with proof that they were not given or treatments not given, she looked me straight in the eye and said yes they were without hesitation. Just sudden bizarre behaviour, and so very unlike her normally conscientious, caring behaviour. She was diagnosed shortly after that with the glioma blastoma, and passed away within 1 year. She was young too.

IMO, I don't think Casey has a BT, but what do I know. I do believe her brain however is short circuited imo

[Joan Weiss]

Exactly - that's my main question - Where's George? Another thing that caught my attention surrounding the events of the evening of the 15th - he called Lee and was 'unable' to answer his phone when Cindy called him - he finally was able to get hold of her sometime later. (the whole phone call thing is scattered in about 3 places in the docs)

You'd think if G had just found and cleaned out the dead body car, sent Cindy to hunt down Casey, called Lee to get home ASAP - you'd think he'd at least answer the phone! This bugs me.

G must have had something very important to do in the middle of this family crisis.

AllMO:)He worked second shift. He called Lee because he wanted someone there for Cindy, imo. He got home in the middle of the third 911 call. imo

[Oregongal]

Im sorry OneUp I hope you feel better. :rose: THis is getting to us all, even NG.

I've been having horrible nightmares for weeks now, lack of sleep not hungry, etc. Im under a great deal of stress too in Real Life so I understand that my SubCon is really struggling. Yesterday I started to get hives. Now, I havent had hives in more than 10 years, it takes a lot to start them but once they start that is IT.

I wonder what Casey will "never be able to forgive herself for" because it's not giving her child away to a negligent caretaker named Zanny that NO ONE has ever met....NO O N E .....Not even a picture of Zanny on this womans hard drive has been released. I believe that was what prevented any major grid search for caylee early on. The lies this family has told. And I do believe they are lying. To save Casey A, not that she is worth that. I dont believe she is worth that at all, actually. this family KNEW. When someone LIVES with you; you KNOW exactly what their behaviors are, right or wrong. The spare key BS that Casey had to have in her pocket, is early indication something really wrong in this family and with their way of thinking.

Who, would CONDONE that??? IOW, she was too wasted, and would lose her keys often so HAD TO keep a spare key in her pocket so she could "get to" Caylee. Now that was said early on; and I will not forget it, I'll never forget that actually. (!!!!!)

She won't be able for forgive herself for getting caught. It's all about her with this girl. If she ever cries or fakes crying it's because she's been caught. Period. When she says about beating herself up, it's not because of what happened with Caylee, it's because she's going thru all this wasted of time trouble and has been caught.
And yes I believe her family KNEW. A mother that calls her daughter a sociopath has had a long time to figure it out. This word did not just fly out of her mouth for effect, it came out because she has known or at least suspected for a very long time. This is not a common word a parent would use for a child that is just troublesome, just a liar. Cindy has probably spent alot of time researching mental disorders to try and figure out what was wrong with Casey and this disorder is what she thought fit with everything she'd seen and experienced with Casey. There are certain criteria laid out to diagnose a sociopath readily available online and add that to her profession as a nurse, she used this word, this disorder because she knew that's most likely what her daughter is.
My question is why she continues to protect her? Why won't she just come out and admit this is what her daughter may be and beg for someone to help her daughter? Beg for someone to help guide her in the best way to handle this all. Why the defensiveness, anger, denial and lashing out at everyone?
I can understand the horror and grief she may be feeling because of the fact Casey did something horrible to her grandaughter, but wouldn't it be more loving and respectful to Caylee to do everything she could to not protect, to try and get help for Casey, to try and do everything she could to get the truth from Casey?
Ok, rant over. Thanks for listening.

[steffaroob4]

reposting neat map I found (http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&gl=us&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=112207365672542480712.000455b4884de4fdc7516)

[msjoni]

I just recently read somewhere that George was previously married to a woman in Ohio in the early 70's, who claims he had a violent temper and was a habitual liar.

I read that too, they were married for 5 years in the early to mid 70's...:eek:

[Takotna]

Wait...I thought I knew everything about this case. (Well, except the important stuff, obviously - like where is Caylee?) But somehow I missed something. Several calls to 911? Police visiting the house on various occasions? Where can I read more about this?

Hi Ginky - it seems like the discussion was many nights ago. I think searching for 'criminal mischief' might get you there. There was a list of the 911 calls and the abbreviations for the reasons called. I'll try to find it too. (IIRC posters were trying to figure out what CM meant)

MO:)