Caylee Anthony 09-10-08 A.M thread

[♫Rock*Star♫]

omgoodness your name is so cool! :D

and to make this post "on topic" my answer to your question is no

Thank you! :) If we don't know where George was with the car, I'm afraid Caylee may have been in the car inside where the spare tire would be kept. Under the carpeting in the trunk. That could explain why George was wiling to tell LE he checked the backyard. Probably trying to throw off LE. George may be looking at charges himself down the road a bit. JMO

[Cury-us Coyote]

The article your quote was addressing was written in 2004. It is but one of several, the latest published in the March 2008 issue of the Journal of Forensic Science. I won't go through the trouble of enumerating the evidentiary hurdles all the Body Farm research would have to clear to be admitted in court. No one would read it anyway. IMO it would be admitted as evidence. 'Nuff said.


Please send the link. I would definitely like to read an updated JFS article and appreciate your opinion. TIA

[Rebel Rouzer]

Yes, I so wanted that reporter to come right out and ask him about Cindy's comments, especially about Tim, but also all the other ridiculous things she has said over the past few weeks.
Me too. Maybe another reporter will ask those questions in the future. We can only hope.

[Kathlb]

Thank you.
Gatekeeper isn't well understood either IMO.

I definitely understand precedent, but Gatekeeper in this context...no.
Can you explain please. Thanks!

[Mandysmom]

See, that's the thing.

We don't know that there were searches on the computer for that at all. That's just a rumor that was on Nancy Grace.

As for producing chloroform, you have to understand, there's a difference between producing pure chloroform that can be used for medical purposes, and producing chloroform that would register on the test they use to detect it.

Bleach and luminol could likely give a false positive for chloroform, depending on what test the CSI tech used. It's VERY easy to contaminate a scene with some of the equipment they have.

This is why, as I said before, it's likely that many of these leaks are not true. They're just trying to get their prime suspect to slip up.How much more can they get her to slip up?

She's lied about everything under the sun from the first day of questioning. I'm pretty sure the FBI lab knows all the many ways chloroform can be made and how it can be detected.

Let's get real here. If Zenaida and Samantha took Caylee and the Anthony family have had people "watching" them or the other suspected kidnappers, why hasn't anything developed at all?

If Casey had a "script" to follow for 30 days, then she fulfilled her mission, now she can tell the truth. The 30 days is up.

Instead of getting money together for Casey's defense, why haven't they used the said funds for hiring private detectives to find Caylee?

Using common sense, the only reason I can think of is that they don't want her found now. That would only be damning to Casey. They have circled the wagons and are hitting the message boards and airwaves throwing out these "could haves, would haves, should haves, might bes, could bes, to the extent of no logic at all.

Just pure nonsensical b.s. imo.

[day2day]

Agree with you. Especially whe he said the Anthony's appreciate all who are looking and the media attention even if they diagree If that were true i don't think they would be calling people maggots and parasites etc. I don't like when people speak out both sides of their mouth with a forked tongue. IMO

I don't think the Anthony's realize just how flippin lucky they really are. First ..how many parents of missing children would give up everything they own for a couple nights of THEIR child being "featured" on Nancy Grace. How many families of missing childen would give ANYTHING for Tim Miller and TES to come and HELP THEM search for their child.

Instead of praising them and thanking God for their help in finding Caylee-they choose to "name-call" and even go as far as to send NASTY emails about Tim.

Instead of searching for precious Caylee-they are out shopping for an attorney to protect their name. Amazing...

I just hope that if by some slim chance that Caylee is found alive...that the State of Florida finds a NEW FAMILY for her..one who truly loves her and cares for her. She deserves that much.

JMO

[Rebel Rouzer]

How much more can they get her to slip up?

She's lied about everything under the sun from the first day of questioning. I'm pretty sure the FBI lab knows all the many ways chloroform can be made and how it can be detected.

Let's get real here. If Zenaida and Samantha took Caylee and the Anthony family have had people "watching" them or the other suspected kidnappers, why hasn't anything developed at all?

If Casey had a "script" to follow for 30 days, then she fulfilled her mission, now she can tell the truth. The 30 days is up.

Instead of getting money together for Casey's defense, why haven't they used the said funds for hiring private detectives to find Caylee?

Using common sense, the only reason I can think of is that they don't want her found now. That would only be damning to Casey. They have circled the wagons and are hitting the message boards and airwaves throwing out these "could haves, would haves, should haves, might bes, could bes, to the extent of no logic at all.

Just pure nonsensical b.s. imo.

IMO the ONLY script Casey got for 30 days were medication scripts. IMO

[ginky41]

I don't think the Anthony's realize just how flippin lucky they really are. First ..how many parents of missing children would give up everything they own for a couple nights of THEIR child being "featured" on Nancy Grace. How many families of missing childen would give ANYTHING for Tim Miller and TES to come and HELP THEM search for their child.

Instead of praising them and thanking God for their help in finding Caylee-they choose to "name-call" and even go as far as to send NASTY emails about Tim.

Instead of searching for precious Caylee-they are out shopping for an attorney to protect their name. Amazing...

I just hope that if by some slim chance that Caylee is found alive...that the State of Florida finds a NEW FAMILY for her..one who truly loves her and cares for her. She deserves that much.

JMO

Amen to that day! :beer:

[WinnieLeigh7]

Thank you! :) If we don't know where George was with the car, I'm afraid Caylee may have been in the car inside where the spare tire would be kept. Under the carpeting in the trunk. That could explain why George was wiling to tell LE he checked the backyard. Probably trying to throw off LE. George may be looking at charges himself down the road a bit. JMO



I agree and have stated numerous times previously, that's exactly what I think the 'hole' is in the investigation.

Not that they don't have enough evidence to know Caylee is dead

But they can't pinpoint exactly WHO was in the car, WHO did really see her last, and WHO was she with, WHO is responsible for her death and WHO has disposed of her. (and that's not necessarily one person or the same person for all those 'who's')

That's what they can't make concrete in the court I'm afraid and that's why they are trying to build the case, make it stronger, get to the bottom of the lies and eliminate that 'reasonable doubt'

MOO, Always

[hamebone]

I watched the interview NeJame gave the local orlando station, posted by kakax on the links thread. It was totally ineffectual IMO and I don't think they've gotten their monies worth from him so far. Did not see Today appearance.

I understood some of what he had to say.

Like it being hard for them to let go of hope.

But he said some stuff that was wrong, like CA & GA appreciations of those searching for the body of Caylee.

I didnt get the impression from Cindy when she called into NG, she liked it at all.

[Rebel Rouzer]

I don't think the Anthony's realize just how flippin lucky they really are. First ..how many parents of missing children would give up everything they own for a couple nights of THEIR child being "featured" on Nancy Grace. How many families of missing childen would give ANYTHING for Tim Miller and TES to come and HELP THEM search for their child.

Instead of praising them and thanking God for their help in finding Caylee-they choose to "name-call" and even go as far as to send NASTY emails about Tim.

Instead of searching for precious Caylee-they are out shopping for an attorney to protect their name. Amazing...

I just hope that if by some slim chance that Caylee is found alive...that the State of Florida finds a NEW FAMILY for her..one who truly loves her and cares for her. She deserves that much.

JMO


Agree. Amazing isn't even describing it well enough but for lack of a better word. I do agree.

[redcard]

How much more can they get her to slip up?

She's lied about everything under the sun from the first day of questioning.

They need to get her to slip up and admit something factual or something that they can use against her.

Simply lying is not evidence that she killed Caylee. Yes, it's circumstantial, and it'll inflame a jury to hell and back, but this case never gets to trial without evidence that Caylee is 1) dead, and 2) that Casey did it.

We can argue all day about how much we "think" she did it. We can discuss that she's a liar and a horrible person, and you'll get zero disagreement from me on that.

But..

We need her to mess up and to give up something that can be used. Right now, all they really have her on is lying to investigators. That's serious, but, a liar does not mean a murderer. There must be evidence of the murder.

[kakax]

Mark Nejame on Today show

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/26639848#26639848

[AlohaRainbow]

Ok, does Chloroform bleach fabric?
*snip*
hmmm.... had to google a bit, but from this article, it doesn't seem that chloroform by itself bleaches fabric (i could be wrong of course!)

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Bleaching-agent
:read:

[Roux]

He touched on that in the interview when stating the fact that George & Cindy do not believe that Caylee is dead, therefore, cannot support anything that goes to that theory.


But he fell far short of offering an apology, or really even an excuse, for Cindy's reprehensible comments about Tim Miller.

[day2day]

Amen to that day! :beer:
:seeya: ginky!!

[♫Rock*Star♫]

From anything i have seen on the Body farm it has been held in high esteem. Anybody catch any of the shows on Discovery channel???

I've read a couple of the books. Death's Acre: Inside The Body Farm, The Legendary Forensic Lab and Beyond The Body Farm: A Legendary Bone Detective Explores Murders, Mysteries, And The Revolution In Forensic Science. Both by Dr. Bill Bass with Jon Jefferson. Those two together have also written a couple of fiction novels under the name Jefferson Bass. I can't remember the titles though. Good reading all around. :)

[ginky41]

I see there's not much new today? Darn. :mad:

[kitty1182]

I understood some of what he had to say.

Like it being hard for them to let go of hope.

But he said some stuff that was wrong, like CA & GA appreciations of those searching for the body of Caylee.

I didnt get the impression from Cindy when she called into NG, she liked it at all.

That's the impression I got also..

[shelbar53]

I cant imagine just about the entire country saying such bad thoughts about me. I get upset if one person says anything bad about me. To go out in public and having horrible things being screamed at you or just written about all over the internet would give me a nervous breakdown...I would crack and spill the beans on my daughter , or just wait for the 1.5 mill...change my name and move away and live happily ever after.....NOT

[tisamystery]

Just a thought . . . is it possible Casey's parents are "behind her" because they're scared of her?

Think about it. If you believe your daughter, who you already think is a sociopath, has murdered her child, are you going to go against her or challenge her when she's staying in your house with you? Would you be concerned that she might come after you in the middle of the night?

[beemeup]

I don't think the Anthony's realize just how flippin lucky they really are. First ..how many parents of missing children would give up everything they own for a couple nights of THEIR child being "featured" on Nancy Grace. How many families of missing childen would give ANYTHING for Tim Miller and TES to come and HELP THEM search for their child.

Instead of praising them and thanking God for their help in finding Caylee-they choose to "name-call" and even go as far as to send NASTY emails about Tim.

Instead of searching for precious Caylee-they are out shopping for an attorney to protect their name. Amazing...

I just hope that if by some slim chance that Caylee is found alive...that the State of Florida finds a NEW FAMILY for her..one who truly loves her and cares for her. She deserves that much.

JMO
Great post-I think this is how most of us feel. they have not even adressed any of the logical questions. What makes me so MAD is the LE time they are tying up and good folk like Tim's team who need to be out searching elsewhere. And the folk here who gave up there blessed time away from their own families. All any of us want is to find Caylee. We are waiting with baited breath to see such a sign from the family. For Cindy to say We need to get off our asses and search???? And what the he.. have u done other than coddle your little family socio. Is it guilt parenting that could make a grandparent overlook a grandchild. This case just defies all logic.:rose: For Caylee

[BrownEyedF]

Although I believe Casey is responsible for Caylee's disappearance, the chloroform being used to knock Caylee out while her mother partied seems so far fetched. I agree with other posters who have wondered why not benadryl or Nyquil. Chloroform does not make sense to me at all. Although I have heard Dr. Baden and others speak of cases with chloroform, it sounds to me like it is something very rare. I am not saying it didn't happen, I am saying there is something about this particular fact that doesn't sit well with me. It would be easier for me to accept that she used it in a murder, more than I would be willing to accept that she used it to sedate Caylee while she partied.

My gut feeling is that she did something intentionally to that baby. However, I am putting myself on a jury here based on all I have read and watched (extensively), and I don't think it can be proven yet. I think that they have ample evidence that she is dead, but the DA is not sure what he can charge her with. I think they are waiting until they have the big picture so they know what her exact role was. They probably will not be too hasty to file charges since she is already facing charges which could potentially have her behind bars for years.

In this day and age with news being on the 24-hour cycle and Google at your fingertips, people want results fast. I WANT the results fast. I just don't think LE is willing to do a rush job to satisfy the public's need for vengeance at the risk of making a mistake that would result in her never being charged.

All JMO. I have enjoyed lurking on this board. Thanks for all the posts!!

[tiny paw-prints]

Thank you! :) If we don't know where George was with the car, I'm afraid Caylee may have been in the car inside where the spare tire would be kept. Under the carpeting in the trunk. That could explain why George was wiling to tell LE he checked the backyard. Probably trying to throw off LE. George may be looking at charges himself down the road a bit. JMO


There was sufficient time between the 2nd and 3rd 911 calls to dispose of a body and IIRC, that's when the cleaning took place.

Was the Pontiac's spare "donut" tire missing?

[tisamystery]

Although I believe Casey is responsible for Caylee's disappearance, the chloroform being used to knock Caylee out while her mother partied seems so far fetched. I agree with other posters who have wondered why not benadryl or Nyquil. SNIPPED

You make a good point but remember some kids have an opposite reaction to Benadryl and Nyquil.

[AlohaRainbow]

From anything i have seen on the Body farm it has been held in high esteem. Anybody catch any of the shows on Discovery channel???
ita about the body farm being held in esteem.

about a week ago i saw a show on a&e (modern marvels:corpse tech) which featured the body farm in one of its segments... they described and showed how they determined which decomp gases were produced by *human* cadavers.

they placed 'venting' type tubes and pipes in the ground at varying depths directly over a buried human cadaver, and collected and analyzed the various gaseous compounds that were given off.

[st777jo]

The comparisons he made to families of MIA soldiers was particularly inappropriate. And to keep harping on the fact that G & C want to protect and believe their daughter only reinforces what most of the public already think.


Exactly what I thought. Comparing MIA to the Anthony's, is horrendous, IMO.

As for having compassion for G & C, not when Cindy has complained about LE, people getting off their a$$es, and so on. I don't blame them for having hope, but behaving the way they do, turns me off.

[forpsystudent]

Please send the link. I would definitely like to read an updated JFS article and appreciate your opinion. TIA



I have a link to my school library and the article itself contains a reference to an online site. I'm pretty sure the online site would cost money. Back when I mentioned this the first time I spoke of my concern about TOS and copyright laws and asked the board what options, if any, I had for posting a link. I figured posting a link to a college library was out so I asked about the online site and never heard a word. If my not receiving a response to my post was atypical I would have been more persistent but since I can count the number of responses to my posts on one hand I let it go. Under the circumstances there isn't any point in my being banned for TOS.

[Pooh]

Does anyone know if Dr. Kobi (as Nancy Grace calls him) has ever said whether or not chloroform is detectable after death if a body is recovered? Is it one of those chemicals that "sticks around"? Anyone know?

[kakax]

Nancy Grace Field Producers give first-hand accounts of the search for missing tot Caylee Anthony. Check here for frequent updates as producers blog live from the scene.

Orlando, Florida -- Wednesday - September 10, 2008

1:28 PM ET - Spoke to Deputy Padilla to confirm UCF search and to get Sheriff Beary's thoughts on possible million dollar deal when police have used countless resources and dollars to find Caylee. (From Natisha Lance, Nancy Grace Field Producer)


http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/09/08/NGfindcayleeblog/index.html

[Velouria]

ITA with your post Mandysmom, and the following in particular:



Instead of getting money together for Casey's defense, why haven't they used the said funds for hiring private detectives to find Caylee?

Using common sense, the only reason I can think of is that they don't want her found now. That would only be damning to Casey. They have circled the wagons and are hitting the message boards and airwaves throwing out these "could haves, would haves, should haves, might bes, could bes, to the extent of no logic at all.

Just pure nonsensical b.s. imo.

I've said the very same thing about hiring private investigators. I thought that was precisely the type of thing Caylee's Trust was intended for - the search for Caylee. Not for bailing out the very person who betrayed her the most.

I find it very telling that they're taking the time to print out message boards. If there ever was a script, it's being written NOW, based on whatever bits of theory and evidence they know is weighing against Casey, and it's constantly changing.

[KimD]

Quote:Originally Posted by msgatorslayer
I'm not much of a dreamer at all. But Mr.Gator, he dreams just about ever time he sleeps and he has some weird ones, lol.

Anyway, he took a nap yesterday and woke up saying he had a dream about 'that girl' - he was talking about Caylee.

Said her body was by a fence at a church. First time he ever had a dream about a case I was following.

***********************************

While following this case from the beginning, I've observed several reasons why I think it would be a good idea to search around a church.

Does anyone know which church the Anthony family attends. Have any of them avoided going to the church?

So weird... I posted a few days ago about a dream I had in which Caylee was found behind a church. I'm certainly not a psychic and I'm sure it was nothing but I just could not get it out of my head. I found a church less then a mile from the Anthony home and the surroundings looked like what I pictured in my dream. I actually emailed the blogger who was requesting areas to search. I'm not sure if he actually did but I tried. Again, I don't want to sound like a wacko but just figured I would mention it. Here's the church I found:

St Issac Jogues Catholic Church‎
4301 S Chickasaw Trail

[Hey Paula]

The article your quote was addressing was written in 2004. It is but one of several, the latest published in the March 2008 issue of the Journal of Forensic Science. I won't go through the trouble of enumerating the evidentiary hurdles all the Body Farm research would have to clear to be admitted in court. No one would read it anyway. IMO it would be admitted as evidence. 'Nuff said.

Hi Forpsy!

Although I'm not in any related field to render a professional opinion in this matter, it does seem logical to me that this would pose evidentiary problems if such info were to be used as key evidence. However, do you think it might have a place if played in a corroboratory role, (e.g., in conjunction with CE, cadaver dogs, etc) absent of finding a victim's remains?

[tisamystery]

Does anyone know if Dr. Kobi (as Nancy Grace calls him) has ever said whether or not chloroform is detectable after death if a body is recovered? Is it one of those chemicals that "sticks around"? Anyone know?

I believe she asked him that yesterday and he said probably not detectable. I could be wrong, though.

[5boxersmom]

Has it been said what was printed off from WS?

Caylee:rose:

[WillowInFlight]

You make a good point but remember some kids have an opposite reaction to Benadryl and Nyquil.

That is so true, my son would be bouncing off the walls after taking Benadryl.

[deep*fear]

hmmm.... had to google a bit, but from this article, it doesn't seem that chloroform by itself bleaches fabric (i could be wrong of course!)

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Bleaching-agent
:read:

Thank you -- I was going to test this, but didn't have enough ice for the recipe hammer

[♫Rock*Star♫]

There was sufficient time between the 2nd and 3rd 911 calls to dispose of a body and IIRC, that's when the cleaning took place.

Was the Pontiac's spare "donut" tire missing?

I don't know. But I agree they had plenty of time to dispose of Caylee and attempt to clean the car out. JMO

[Velouria]

Just a thought . . . is it possible Casey's parents are "behind her" because they're scared of her?

Think about it. If you believe your daughter, who you already think is a sociopath, has murdered her child, are you going to go against her or challenge her when she's staying in your house with you? Would you be concerned that she might come after you in the middle of the night?


Except they weren't forced to allow her to come home with them. They could have refused, and cited security concerns, not to mention not bailing her out in the first place.

[redcard]

I believe she asked him that yesterday and he said probably not detectable. I could be wrong, though.

Which begs a question.

How could they collect / detect CHCL3 in the trunk, but not in\on the human body/lungs post mortem?

I suspect this chloroform thing is going to go away soon.

[forpsystudent]

I definitely understand precedent, but Gatekeeper in this context...no.
Can you explain please. Thanks!


I think the easiest way to explain that is Wiki. Here's a link.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daubert_Standard

[WinnieLeigh7]

Just a thought . . . is it possible Casey's parents are "behind her" because they're scared of her?

Think about it. If you believe your daughter, who you already think is a sociopath, has murdered her child, are you going to go against her or challenge her when she's staying in your house with you? Would you be concerned that she might come after you in the middle of the night?

She's only in the house because mommy and daddy posted the bail though.

[Pooh]

I believe she asked him that yesterday and he said probably not detectable. I could be wrong, though.
If it is true that chloroform is not detectable, then that would be the reason Casey picked that chemical rather than something else. It is MY belief that she intended to kill Caylee - not to simply knock her out.

[Roux]

Mark Nejame on Today show

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/26639848#26639848

A minute into the interview he said there was misinformation and mis-statements out there but never gave a specific instance.

I guess just like we never got a specific instance of Casey's constitutional rights being trod upon, as claimed last week.

[jbellaj]

I believe she asked him that yesterday and he said probably not detectable. I could be wrong, though.


He did say that last night.

[KimD]

Just a thought . . . is it possible Casey's parents are "behind her" because they're scared of her?

Think about it. If you believe your daughter, who you already think is a sociopath, has murdered her child, are you going to go against her or challenge her when she's staying in your house with you? Would you be concerned that she might come after you in the middle of the night?

Nope.. not at all. They could have easily said "no" to home confinement... at least in their home.

[redcard]

He did say that last night.

And that'd be wrong.

Chloroform itself was given up as an anesthesia method because it left traces and was carcinogenic.

[crymeariver2006]

Do we know how many times they have met with NeJame? I only knew about the one time she went last week, just before the 20/20 program aired. NeJame says they cry every time he talks to them?

And exactly how several of us predicted how Cindy would turn on Tim Miller when he told her something she didn't want to hear....

The same goes for NeJame.

Watch and see.

[WillowInFlight]

A minute into the interview he said there was misinformation and mis-statements out there but never gave a specific instance.

I guess just like we never got a specific instance of Casey's constitutional rights being trod upon, as claimed last week.

Also don't forget Lenny said we would be hearing bomb shell information in the next coming weeks. some of which would shock us all. :rolleyes:

[Pooh]

He did say that last night.
I think our little princess did her homework to find just the right chemical to use. Recent cases would have ruled out antifreeze.

[WinnieLeigh7]

Does anyone know if Dr. Kobi (as Nancy Grace calls him) has ever said whether or not chloroform is detectable after death if a body is recovered? Is it one of those chemicals that "sticks around"? Anyone know?

I thought it was not, did not...

:shrug:

I thought that's what was stated on NG

But I can't confirm that.

[msgatorslayer]

Has it been said what was printed off from WS?

Caylee:rose:

I'm starting to wonder if she really found those. She's fallen off radar. Haven't heard anything more about the docs and I thought for sure, media would be all over them.

[♫Rock*Star♫]

I think George and Cindy are putting the cart before the horse with their defense of sociopath Casey. I think they're working on a murder defense because they know she will be convicted on the current charges and there is no point in trying to come up with a defense for the current charges. Those charges are pretty much open and shut. JMO

[redcard]

I think the body farm fails Daubert in this case on the basis that it's not a low enough error rate.

[girlspell]

If it is true that chloroform is not detectable, then that would be the reason Casey picked that chemical rather than something else. It is MY belief that she intended to kill Caylee - not to simply knock her out.

Thats my thinking too. She just wanted to get the kid away from her. She wanted a life with Tony. I think she was really hung up on him. To the point, she would do anything. I know she's had one night flings with god know Caylee asleep in the the corner. Look, it's always a man. She wanted Tony. In her thinking, a good reason to ditch the kid.

Caylee sometimes was an asset to Casey. Really beautiful child. She was a head turner. It bring attention to Casey. Something she basked in. If Tony didn't want the kid around, only reason I can think of the reason why

[dixielover]

Does anyone know if Dr. Kobi (as Nancy Grace calls him) has ever said whether or not chloroform is detectable after death if a body is recovered? Is it one of those chemicals that "sticks around"? Anyone know?

I think there would have to be soft tissue or organ tissue which is not likely now after 60 days. I do think he stated that it would not show up in bones .jmo

[Rebel Rouzer]

And exactly how several of us predicted how Cindy would turn on Tim Miller when he told her something she didn't want to hear....

The same goes for NeJame.

Watch and see.

I agree. Unless official proof comes down before he states something she doesn't want to hear first. She will drop him like a hot potato. JMO

[BrownEyedF]

If Casey had a "script" to follow for 30 days, then she fulfilled her mission, now she can tell the truth. The 30 days is up.

__________________________________________________ ____


Does anyone else think it is strange that this 30-day script story just happened to coincide with it being 30 days later that Cindy found her? She didn't go to Cindy after 30 days....Cindy found her. If she hadn't found her that night, say she found her a week later, would Casey talk about a 40-day script??

The girl can lie, but her lies don't fit together. That is what will be her undoing.

[tiny paw-prints]

So weird... I posted a few days ago about a dream I had in which Caylee was found behind a church. I'm certainly not a psychic and I'm sure it was nothing but I just could not get it out of my head. I found a church less then a mile from the Anthony home and the surroundings looked like what I pictured in my dream. I actually emailed the blogger who was requesting areas to search. I'm not sure if he actually did but I tried. Again, I don't want to sound like a wacko but just figured I would mention it. Here's the church I found:

St Issac Jogues Catholic Church‎
4301 S Chickasaw Trail

Interesting! Do you know if there's a park setting nearby the church, children's playground, a pavillion?

[day2day]

Great post-I think this is how most of us feel. they have not even adressed any of the logical questions. What makes me so MAD is the LE time they are tying up and good folk like Tim's team who need to be out searching elsewhere. And the folk here who gave up there blessed time away from their own families. All any of us want is to find Caylee. We are waiting with baited breath to see such a sign from the family. For Cindy to say We need to get off our asses and search???? And what the he.. have u done other than coddle your little family socio. Is it guilt parenting that could make a grandparent overlook a grandchild. This case just defies all logic.:rose: For Caylee

Thanks beemeup. This has to be THE strangest and one of the saddest cases i have EVER followed. And you are right i have never in my life see a family do so little. Wait. Do NOTHING. Most people do more for lost animals.
imo

[deep*fear]

hmmm.... had to google a bit, but from this article, it doesn't seem that chloroform by itself bleaches fabric (i could be wrong of course!)

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Bleaching-agent
:read:

Sorry to quote you again. I *think* I found an answer, but don't understand how it would work. Chloroform restoring color affected by other cleaning methods.

http://books.google.com/books?id=zuBAAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA573&lpg=PA573&dq=chloroform+bleach+fabric+-softener&source=web&ots=eC_GWRpVBd&sig=h9YK27xXylKX34jA8fadmjlU9Ms&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=10&ct=result

I don't know whether to believe this was used to subdue Caylee or to clean with, I don't think it's common known used for Chloroform unless kids are using it as an excuse for having it.

[Cury-us Coyote]

I have a link to my school library and the article itself contains a reference to an online site. I'm pretty sure the online site would cost money. Back when I mentioned this the first time I spoke of my concern about TOS and copyright laws and asked the board what options, if any, I had for posting a link. I figured posting a link to a college library was out so I asked about the online site and never heard a word. If my not receiving a response to my post was atypical I would have been more persistent but since I can count the number of responses to my posts on one hand I let it go. Under the circumstances there isn't any point in my being banned for TOS.

After reading the 2004 article, IMO the following concerns surfaced -

only four 'current' subjects & 1 'aged' subject are too few samples,
needed one base test without a cadaver to eliminate decaying vegetation factor,
presence of fluorinated compounds unexpected and remains a mystery could be dependent upon subject drinking fluorinated water,
chloroform present in halogen compound class - probably the only halogen someone (without an organic chemistry background) would recognize (leak?),
Significant amount is a relative/comparative term the details specs are not included,
needed infant & child subjects,
investigative tool may not yet attain Daubert standards,
absence of universally accepted Putrescine & Cadaverine requires explanation,
first detectable compound not recorded until day 17 of burial,
effects of varying environment not clearly understood.
jmho

Were these concerns addressed in later tests? Does your library link require membership? TIA

[Roux]

I think our little princess did her homework to find just the right chemical to use. Recent cases would have ruled out antifreeze.

I was thinking about that too with the recent re-broadcast of the Jensen case. Wonder if Casey ever watched Court TV during the day when she was supposed to be planning events.

[damienstoy]

They have outings twice a month usually, more fortunate homes have them more often. And some have them very infrequently, They do a Spring drive to looks at places that have beautiful spring flowers, that might include nighborhoods. They go look at the decorated houses on a night treip around Halloween and Christmas. Other Van Rides can include a request from a rider to drive by what used to be his family farm, or 'homestead' :(sad usually that occurs when they go on what is known as "A Country Ride". Restuarant trips are really special and all cannot go. Only the more lucid ones. Bob Evans, or Cracker Barrell here they come!! They just wanted to soo in person what they had been seeing on the local news. JMO

Thank you. And although altzheimers takes away memory, the earlier memories last the longest. Perhaps some of these folks are remembering their own days of protest, back in the 60s. I can imagine that some might wish to relive that for a few moments. Or even to reassure themselves that people do still care enough about some things to go out and protest.

JMO, of course.

[iluvmua]

Is it possible that Casey cut up Caylee's body and disposed of it in different dumpsters around Orlando?

[SavannahStar]

Funny, but I'm not at all suprised that you say that.

I guess I need to realize that people feel differently about cases. Some stick to realistic theories, even when it's not what they want. I don't for a second want to think Caylee is dead. I've prayed and prayed that she's not. All of the things that have been brought out since the day she went missing (400 pages of documents alone) lead me to believe that she is. I apologize, they were actually things brought out 31 days after she went missing since her mother didn't care enough to notify anyone immediately.

Then again there are others that cling to shoddy theories no matter what evidence is thrown into their face. Natalee Holloway is alive and that silly Joran just got high and made up the story about how he dumped her not knowing whether she was dead or alive!!! Caylee is alive and well and hanging out with Zanny - how silly of us to disregard cadaver dogs and chloroform and lies and witness statements and Casey's behavior and..............................oh, nevermind.

All IMO, MHOO, and all that jazz.

It was probably a very realistic theory that Richard Ricci killed Elizabeth Smart....just sayin'

[EGirl]

Does anyone know if Dr. Kobi (as Nancy Grace calls him) has ever said whether or not chloroform is detectable after death if a body is recovered? Is it one of those chemicals that "sticks around"? Anyone know?


I did see this article / post that Pooh posted on the 'Chloroform' thread, but not relating to the body itself but that vaporized chloroform could not come from cleaning products or human body fluids?

Florida chemist Jeff Flowers


http://www.wesh.com/news/17392699/detail.html


(eta: Pooh, I just realized that you were the original poster of the link that I was responding. Sorry!)

[redcard]

Is it possible that Casey cut up Caylee's body and disposed of it in different dumpsters around Orlando?

No way.

That'd be FAR too much forensic evidence out there. Plus there would be records of purchases.

I do some mystery writing.. the fastest and best way to get rid of a body is quickly. The longer you hold the body, and the more you do to it, the more likely it will be that you'll get caught.

[girlspell]

Is it possible that Casey cut up Caylee's body and disposed of it in different dumpsters around Orlando?

Gah...horrible as it is, she might have. That knife in the trunk?

[VC2]

I don't think the Anthony's realize just how flippin lucky they really are. First ..how many parents of missing children would give up everything they own for a couple nights of THEIR child being "featured" on Nancy Grace. How many families of missing childen would give ANYTHING for Tim Miller and TES to come and HELP THEM search for their child.

Instead of praising them and thanking God for their help in finding Caylee-they choose to "name-call" and even go as far as to send NASTY emails about Tim.

Instead of searching for precious Caylee-they are out shopping for an attorney to protect their name. Amazing...

I just hope that if by some slim chance that Caylee is found alive...that the State of Florida finds a NEW FAMILY for her..one who truly loves her and cares for her. She deserves that much.

JMO


If by some miracle she is found alive, there is nothing to stop the grandparents who love her having custody. They will have been proven right and most of the arguments against them will go away.

I still don't believe they are "covering" for casey at all. I disagree with them, and don't like their actions but completely understand that if someone believes their granddaughter is alive (and almost has to because the alternative is to horrendous, that their daughter killed her) its normal to be against any theory suggesting otherwise and also normal to be supporting their daughter at least insofar as getting her out on bond and they have to believe her account of what happened since otherwise they lose all hope.

What many here are doing seems to suggest that they don't believe casey so they must be covering up the crime..i find the simplest most obvious solution normally is the correct one. In this case they do believe her for oh so many reasons psychologically, everything from denial, to undoing, to few ppl able to face that their daughter no matter how much of a liar could or would go as far as murder of their child, to desperately holding on to hope as the one way to stay sane

jmo

[beemeup]

ita about the body farm being held in esteem.

about a week ago i saw a show on a&e (modern marvels:corpse tech) which featured the body farm in one of its segments... they described and showed how they determined which decomp gases were produced by *human* cadavers.

they placed 'venting' type tubes and pipes in the ground at varying depths directly over a buried human cadaver, and collected and analyzed the various gaseous compounds that were given off.

That was very similar to what i saw. Fascinating.:rose: For Caylee

[Laurieann]

have you guys seen this yet?
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70707&page=11

picture of Casey with Annie.
Annie is wearing the ball cap the trash lady found yesterday in the Anthony's garbage.
Who is Annie?

Sorry if it's already been posted.

[Pooh]

I was thinking about that too with the recent re-broadcast of the Jensen case. Wonder if Casey ever watched Court TV during the day when she was supposed to be planning events.
And don't forget about Lynn Turner. She was a piece of work.

[cassidy]

Thank you. And although altzheimers takes away memory, the earlier memories last the longest. Perhaps some of these folks are remembering their own days of protest, back in the 60s. I can imagine that some might wish to relive that for a few moments. Or even to reassure themselves that people do still care enough about some things to go out and protest.

JMO, of course.

WHOA! Hold those horses there kiddo! I protested in the 60's and am no where near the age of altzheimers! Those people would be more my parents age! Unless they had a bus full of early onsets. :eek:

[forpsystudent]

Hi Forpsy!

Although I'm not in any related field to render a professional opinion in this matter, it does seem logical to me that this would pose evidentiary problems if such info were to be used as key evidence. However, do you think it might have a place if played in a corroboratory role, (e.g., in conjunction with CE, cadaver dogs, etc) absent of finding a victim's remains?



Well, Hey Hey Paula!

I posted a link upthread about our court system's evidentiary rules. I have to admit I was far more familiar with what they used to be as those rules really made it easy to get expert witness testimony in. I DO think this will come in as corrorboratory. A lot of people here tend to discount cadaver dogs and their evidence. I don't know of specific guidelines, e.g., a federal court case or even several state court cases but my understanding is that in cases involving cadaver dogs their evidence is not at all unusual in the courtroom. I think that is a result of drug and bomb sniffing dogs' evidence coming in almost without exception. Cadaver dogs are an offshoot from them in that they are searching for something specific as opposed to SAR dogs in general. After saying all that, all bets are off if:seeya: the handlers are not training and testing and certifying--reputably--their dogs. I hope that answered your question.

[deep*fear]

Although I believe Casey is responsible for Caylee's disappearance, the chloroform being used to knock Caylee out while her mother partied seems so far fetched. I agree with other posters who have wondered why not benadryl or Nyquil. Chloroform does not make sense to me at all. Although I have heard Dr. Baden and others speak of cases with chloroform, it sounds to me like it is something very rare. I am not saying it didn't happen, I am saying there is something about this particular fact that doesn't sit well with me. It would be easier for me to accept that she used it in a murder, more than I would be willing to accept that she used it to sedate Caylee while she partied.

My gut feeling is that she did something intentionally to that baby. However, I am putting myself on a jury here based on all I have read and watched (extensively), and I don't think it can be proven yet. I think that they have ample evidence that she is dead, but the DA is not sure what he can charge her with. I think they are waiting until they have the big picture so they know what her exact role was. They probably will not be too hasty to file charges since she is already facing charges which could potentially have her behind bars for years.

In this day and age with news being on the 24-hour cycle and Google at your fingertips, people want results fast. I WANT the results fast. I just don't think LE is willing to do a rush job to satisfy the public's need for vengeance at the risk of making a mistake that would result in her never being charged.

All JMO. I have enjoyed lurking on this board. Thanks for all the posts!!

Using Chloroform instead of Benadryl or Nyquil speaks to society being more geared to wanting instant results. If one is going to drug their child for the sole purpose of making them sleep, the method won't much matter, imo.

[crymeariver2006]

Also don't forget Lenny said we would be hearing bomb shell information in the next coming weeks. some of which would shock us all. :rolleyes:

Well, I don't know about that....I was shocked when I heard about the chloroform.

:shrug:

[tiny paw-prints]

I don't know. But I agree they had plenty of time to dispose of Caylee and attempt to clean the car out. JMO


I also agree. And too, although it can be agreed upon by many that there was sheer panic in Cindy's voice during the 3rd 911 call, I think since that timeline; many can Now agree that Cindy is a good actor and liar; especially after Both George and Cindy's testimony at the bond hearing.

[impartial]

It was probably a very realistic theory that Richard Ricci killed Elizabeth Smart....just sayin'


Nancy Grace sure thought so ... ;)

:seeya:

[OneUp]

I think the easiest way to explain that is Wiki. Here's a link.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daubert_StandardTY ! I do recall hearing about Daubert and Frye way back in my first years of colloege ( I was a criminology major then, 1990+).
I personally have not needed the links to the viability of the air testing under discussion as I am not in a court of Law on a jury, and I tend to believe testing results ( and their reliability) from "The Body Farm".
I've followed some of their testing before, and their methodology is good enough for me.
:) TY for the offer of links to professional level sources though! I would not be likely to comprehend thoroughly anything that was terribly scientific anyway, and they would be wasted on me.
JMO.

[beemeup]

Thank you. And although altzheimers takes away memory, the earlier memories last the longest. Perhaps some of these folks are remembering their own days of protest, back in the 60s. I can imagine that some might wish to relive that for a few moments. Or even to reassure themselves that people do still care enough about some things to go out and protest.

JMO, of course.

Thank You for your kind reminder that i am trying to get across. Look beneath the surface. These folks are still and were once productive parts of society. Their voice still matter's. They should not be reduced to drive by folks "On a Bus"

[msgatorslayer]

have you guys seen this yet?
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70707&page=11

picture of Casey with Annie.
Annie is wearing the ball cap the trash lady found yesterday in the Anthony's garbage.
Who is Annie?

Sorry if it's already been posted.

Don't know how Annie is. But I've seen other St. Patty pics.

It looks to me like they pulled over to take that pic on the side of the road. You can see all the traffic and lil Caylee is in her carseat.

[Rebel Rouzer]

have you guys seen this yet?
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70707&page=11

picture of Casey with Annie.
Annie is wearing the ball cap the trash lady found yesterday in the Anthony's garbage.
Who is Annie?

Sorry if it's already been posted.

I don't remember an Annie unless that's the girl she was dirty dancin with in some of the photos. Don't know :shrug:

[threesnugbugs]

Don't know how Annie is. But I've seen other St. Patty pics.

It looks to me like they pulled over to take that pic on the side of the road. You can see all the traffic and lil Caylee is in her carseat.

or they are in a parking lot.

[KimD]

Interesting! Do you know if there's a park setting nearby the church, children's playground, a pavillion?

You can check out the location by zooming in with the satellite view of this address on Google Maps. If you zoom it in a lot, you can see what appears to be some sort of small covered structure in the back of the church. It seems too small to be a separate building... that could maybe be a pavillion. Check it out and let me know.

Like I said, I'm not a weirdo and I'm certainly not looking to interject myself into this. The dream just really struck me but I'm sure most of us on here have had some sort of dream about this case. I just wish they would find her so she can finally be at peace :rose:

[AlohaRainbow]

I have a link to my school library and the article itself contains a reference to an online site. I'm pretty sure the online site would cost money. Back when I mentioned this the first time I spoke of my concern about TOS and copyright laws and asked the board what options, if any, I had for posting a link. I figured posting a link to a college library was out so I asked about the online site and never heard a word. If my not receiving a response to my post was atypical I would have been more persistent but since I can count the number of responses to my posts on one hand I let it go. Under the circumstances there isn't any point in my being banned for TOS.
pubmed has an abstract for that article (march 2008)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18366571?ordinalpos=7&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

if anyone has access to obtaining articles from pubmed, such a medical library-type account, they could probably retrieve the article (again, most likely would need to pay for it).

springer also has link to the article - anyone with an account to springer articles could retrieve it (payment required i would think)
http://www.citeulike.org/journal/hum-fsmp

[5boxersmom]

Don't know how Annie is. But I've seen other St. Patty pics.

It looks to me like they pulled over to take that pic on the side of the road. You can see all the traffic and lil Caylee is in her carseat.

I think Annie is in the pic with Casey throwing up. Her 21st birthday?

jmo

Caylee:rose:

[crymeariver2006]

WHOA! Hold those horses there kiddo! I protested in the 60's and am no where near the age of altzheimers! Those people would be more my parents age! Unless they had a bus full of early onsets. :eek:

Of course you and I were the youngest protesters evah!

As I recall, you know from books and stuff :D, lots of people in their 30's, 40's and 50's were protesting back in the 60's.

[msgatorslayer]

or they are in a parking lot.

Doh!!:punch:Yes, now that I look again,nobody is driving the cars, lmao.

[WillowInFlight]

Well, I don't know about that....I was shocked when I heard about the chloroform.

:shrug:

Lenny alluded that what ever the news is, Cindy, George and Lee already know.

[Laurieann]

have you guys seen this yet?
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70707&page=11

picture of Casey with Annie.
Annie is wearing the ball cap the trash lady found yesterday in the Anthony's garbage.
Who is Annie?

Sorry if it's already been posted.

Quoting my own post for the link.

Here is a pic of the hat ffrom the trash (psot 341)
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70707&page=14


The cap doesnot look torn to me, it looks cut or sliced. I wnder if the girl in the pic talked t LE and CAsey had a little fit all over that cap?

[crymeariver2006]

I think Annie is in the pic with Casey throwing up. Her 21st birthday?

jmo

Caylee:rose:

Yes! Is that the same Annie?

I thought the hat looked familiar but couldn't wrap my brain around where I saw it. Then it came to me that the picture was one of the craigslist photos.

[WinnieLeigh7]

Who's Annie? And where's her statement on this situation?

[n/t]

If by some miracle she is found alive, there is nothing to stop the grandparents who love her having custody. They will have been proven right and most of the arguments against them will go away.

I still don't believe they are "covering" for casey at all. I disagree with them, and don't like their actions but completely understand that if someone believes their granddaughter is alive (and almost has to because the alternative is to horrendous, that their daughter killed her) its normal to be against any theory suggesting otherwise and also normal to be supporting their daughter at least insofar as getting her out on bond and they have to believe her account of what happened since otherwise they lose all hope.

What many here are doing seems to suggest that they don't believe casey so they must be covering up the crime..i find the simplest most obvious solution normally is the correct one. In this case they do believe her for oh so many reasons psychologically, everything from denial, to undoing, to few ppl able to face that their daughter no matter how much of a liar could or would go as far as murder of their child, to desperately holding on to hope as the one way to stay sane

jmo


So who do you think George meant when he said <paraphrasing> the body in that trunk is not my granddaughter?

[Armchairdet]

I understand the difference, however, imo Casey was the biological parent but Cindy was really the mom of Caylee.

I agree Cindy may have been more the responsible 'parent' because Casey didn't provide for the needs of Caylee in a financial way. But when I watched that video of the three of them in the kitchen eating cake I believe it was, Casey seemed more relaxed with Caylee, but Cindy seemed to want to clean up any mess right away. I know that is only one moment in their three years together as a family, but I wonder if Cindy was not somewhat strict when it came to neatness etc., and Casey was perhaps more laid back. I keep wondering why if Casey wanted to party etc., she did not just let Cindy have Caylee. I wonder if there was not some truth to there being problems at home that drove her away. I just cannot figure this family out at all.

[Armchairdet]

The dinner knife?
:rolleyes:

Was it a butter type knife? Perhaps used to cut up fast food type meals for Caylee? To put peanut butter on crackers? I may have missed the importance of the knife.

[beemeup]

;) And yet the lessons are never learned by some.
Most people base their lessons on logic and life experience. I would say we are all posting here based on pure logic. Yes u get the 1 in a million that proves to be wrong but you cant base most cases on that. If i did in my work i would probably not be here. I have clients who are 280 lbs. to my 105 lbs. If they approach me calling me names and in a threatening manner of course i am going to push that button. And yet i have had 280 lb. men crawling under my desk just to not talk to me. Ya not think i am still not on high alert. We all base things on logic,experience and most reasonable people act appropriately. These people i cant even wrap my head around. They defy logic. There are principles of beh. we expect in society in a given sit. Of course we all grief ya da ya diff. but it's not any one thing it's the sum of it all.

[desmom]

Does anyone know how LE decides what areas to search? I know they are going off of the cell phone pings for areas of interest. But it seems Casey was a girl with a pretty regular routine. IMO, she wouldn't have tried that hard to find a place to put Caylee's (gulp) body.

I could see her driving by the same routes everyday, and then thinking to her self 'that looks like a good spot'.

I don't understand why they didn't start the search at the A's house and work the 3 mile radius out from there.


Maybe during the time period in question Casey's phone did not ping near the Anthony's house. :shrug:

[forpsystudent]

After reading the 2004 article, IMO the following concerns surfaced -

only four 'current' subjects & 1 'aged' subject are too few samples,
needed one base test without a cadaver to eliminate decaying vegetation factor,
presence of fluorinated compounds unexpected and remains a mystery could be dependent upon subject drinking fluorinated water,
chloroform present in halogen compound class - probably the only halogen someone (without an organic chemistry background) would recognize (leak?),
Significant amount is a relative/comparative term the details specs are not included,
needed infant & child subjects,
investigative tool may not yet attain Daubert standards,
absence of universally accepted Putrescine & Cadaverine requires explanation,
first detectable compound not recorded until day 17 of burial,
effects of varying environment not clearly understood.
jmho

Were these concerns addressed in later tests? Does your library link require membership? TIA


Yes, my library does require membership. Your summation of the 2004 test is excellent btw--the first thing I noticed in reading it was that they were unable to account for the source of the fluorinated compounds (I'm thinking the refrigerated morgue but I'm way out of my league). I also shared many of your concerns, especially about the non standardization of Putrescine and Cadaverine as these are what is used (mainly) by cadaver dog trainers and I have a special interest in that area as my dog is in training. If I go much further we are going to be O//T.

[SavannahStar]

They need to get her to slip up and admit something factual or something that they can use against her.

Simply lying is not evidence that she killed Caylee. Yes, it's circumstantial, and it'll inflame a jury to hell and back, but this case never gets to trial without evidence that Caylee is 1) dead, and 2) that Casey did it.

We can argue all day about how much we "think" she did it. We can discuss that she's a liar and a horrible person, and you'll get zero disagreement from me on that.

But..

We need her to mess up and to give up something that can be used. Right now, all they really have her on is lying to investigators. That's serious, but, a liar does not mean a murderer. There must be evidence of the murder.

EXCELLENT post! :beer:

[5boxersmom]

Yes! Is that the same Annie?

I thought the hat looked familiar but couldn't wrap my brain around where I saw it. Then it came to me that the picture was one of the craigslist photos.

I don't know. I just remember seeing her in that photo with the toilet. :)

jmo

Caylee:rose:

[OneUp]

Quoting my own post for the link.

Here is a pic of the hat ffrom the trash (psot 341)
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70707&page=14


The cap doesnot look torn to me, it looks cut or sliced. I wnder if the girl in the pic talked t LE and CAsey had a little fit all over that cap?
Quite likely. That's what I thought too.
JMO.

[jill collins]

have you guys seen this yet?
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70707&page=11

picture of Casey with Annie.
Annie is wearing the ball cap the trash lady found yesterday in the Anthony's garbage.
Who is Annie?

Sorry if it's already been posted.

Are we now allowed to post links from other boards??

[Armchairdet]

Might have been used for just about anything other than cutting up a body. imo

I agree totally with that.

[happy2bme]

Might have been used for just about anything other than cutting up a body. imo


You didn't answer the poster's question. I am curious also. Was it a butter knife? Is that what you would call a dinner knife?

[impartial]

I heard it too. "The body in that car is not the body of my granddaughter"



I'm pretty sure he said the "person" in the trunk was not my granddaughter ... I think he was referring to the recent disclosure of evidence that indicated there was a decomposing body in the trunk ... not that he was admitting there was a body in the trunk.

It was an odd statement, he was quite upset when he made it, so who knows what he really meant when he said it.

:shrug:

[desmom]

Are we now allowed to post links from other boards??

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showpost.php?p=6998131&postcount=4

Q. I thought it was against TOS to repost someone else's posts.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A. As long as you copy someone's post from CTV site to CTV site it is OK. All of CTV website is covered by the same copyright. Same if you copy an article from any other web page of CTV's to anyplace else on CTV site.

You CANNOT copy a post from another Message Board without the posters written permission as they are covered under that MB's copyright.

You CAN post the link to their post however, or paraphrase it.


Links to other boards are allowed, not posts as they need permission. HOWEVER, YOU CANNOT use a link to a message board as proof of a statement. If they had a link to an article, you can check that article, and post that link within copyright rules.

[Laurieann]

Are we now allowed to post links from other boards??

we can post links to other boards. We can"t post the content of the link, only a description of what is in it.

[crymeariver2006]

Quite likely. That's what I thought too.
JMO.


She probably made a voodoo doll of Annie and trashed it after she found out that Annie had talked to police.

Too bad the trash didn't get sifted thru right after the 400 page docs came out. No telling what could have been found.

[Rebel Rouzer]

we can post links to other boards. We can"t post the content of the link, only a description of what is in it.


That is what I understood as well. :shrug:

[♫Rock*Star♫]

BUT, George admitted that there was a BODY in Casey's car. Thus, IMHO they do know that SOMEONE is dead, so who do you think that someone is in their mind?

George sure did say a body was in the car. All evidence points to it being Caylee. Occam's razor. Casey killed Caylee and George may have something to do with the cover up. JMO

[Kathlb]

I think the easiest way to explain that is Wiki. Here's a link.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daubert_Standard


Okay, thank you. That makes sense. Another question. At one point during the Spector trial, a special person (and I wish I could remember the exact title) was appointed by the judge to handle that type of situation to keep himself out of the loop so as not to show prejudice in any way. I believe it was a woman. So then, would she be called the Gatekeeper in that instance?

[forpsystudent]

I think the body farm fails Daubert in this case on the basis that it's not a low enough error rate.


I can't defend this one because as Cury-Us-Coyote noted, the number of subjects is small and I don't know how many of these studies they have conducted to compensate for that. I may be wrong in assuming this but I think they have done several and these scientists are well regarded by their peers. The number of studies would be good to know though as it would help make a case for corroboration. JMO

[Pooh]

IF Caylee is dead, and IF Casey murdered her, I agree with you that God will handle this in His own way.
AFTER Casey serves time in the State Pen.....

[Armchairdet]

She probably made a voodoo doll of Annie and trashed it after she found out that Annie had talked to police.

Too bad the trash didn't get sifted thru right after the 400 page docs came out. No telling what could have been found.



I can't imagine Casey had this gals cap. She could not keep track of her own stuff. If it was a cap belonging to Annie, then it was left in the car imo. That would make it evidence imo. However more likely to me she and Casey had matching caps and out of anger, yes Casey destroyed her own cap. imo

[SavannahStar]

good post. I like logical posts, like this one.

I do too. FABULOUS post by VC....

[happy2bme]

I believe it has been officially referred to as "dinnerware".


oh okay. Does anyone know if people consider "dinnerware" as a steak or butter knife? I am curious for my own reasons.lol

[WillowInFlight]

George sure did say a body was in the car. All evidence points to it being Caylee. Occam's razor. Casey killed Caylee and George may have something to do with the cover up. JMO

Didn't he say that when he was lashing out at the media while he was in his front yard? Between him and Cindy they are probably regretting a lot they have said in public.

[Kathlb]

BUT, George admitted that there was a BODY in Casey's car. Thus, IMHO they do know that SOMEONE is dead, so who do you think that someone is in their mind?

Dori, that is one of the most far fetched things in this mess. ( I say one since there are so many on the Anthony's side) What are the chances of a random dead body being in the trunk of their daughter's car? Talk about wild scenarios thrown out there by the Anthony's. That surely is right up there toward the top of the list IMHO.

[♫Rock*Star♫]

You didn't answer the poster's question. I am curious also. Was it a butter knife? Is that what you would call a dinner knife?

Google dinnerware knife and you will see what kind of knife it might have been. It's no butter knife that's for sure. But I doubt Casey used a knife on Caylee.

[marshmallow]

Was it a butter type knife? Perhaps used to cut up fast food type meals for Caylee? To put peanut butter on crackers? I may have missed the importance of the knife.

the only importance I can see about the knife is why Cindy would take it out and wash it then put it back in the vehicle.

[WinnieLeigh7]

ANNIE DOWNING

The friend that went with her to get the tattoo????

[WillowInFlight]

Dori, that is one of the most far fetched things in this mess. ( I say one since there are so many on the Anthony's side) What are the chances of a random dead body being in the trunk of their daughter's car? Talk about wild scenarios thrown out there by the Anthony's. That surely is right up there toward the top of the list IMHO.
ITA and the dead body just happens to be there around the same time Caylee goes missing.:rolleyes:

[Armchairdet]

oh okay. Does anyone know if people consider "dinnerware" as a steak or butter knife? I am curious for my own reasons.lol

I think it can vary as to what people consider it. I myself, would picture the unsharp butter type knife that would go with any table setting at a nice restaurant, vs. the steak knife that would be brought to a table depending on what the diner ordered. IMO

[jill collins]

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showpost.php?p=6998131&postcount=4

Thank you Desmom.

[Deb7]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurieann
have you guys seen this yet?
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...=70707&page=11

picture of Casey with Annie.
Annie is wearing the ball cap the trash lady found yesterday in the Anthony's garbage.
Who is Annie?

Sorry if it's already been posted.




BUT, George admitted that there was a BODY in Casey's car. Thus, IMHO they do know that SOMEONE is dead, so who do you think that someone is in their mind?

Does anyone know where Annie is? Hmmm? Maybe it's Annie?
JMO
:confused:

[WillowInFlight]

I bet the chloroform belonged to one of Casey's friends and it was used with marijuana. I understand this is done by many because it results in a higher "high".

As far as chloroform for cleaning, that would make for a happy cleaner.
Or, a dead one.

Isabelle,
Ray'sMom
I have heard the kids soaking blunts in embalming fluid, but have never heard them using chloroform. :shrug:

[Rebel Rouzer]

Dinnerware knife can mean either Butter knife or Steak Knife or a combination of both. just like you get at Outback Steakhouse. It's used for Bread, butter and Steaks. IMO

[jammies]

Interesting! Do you know if there's a park setting nearby the church, children's playground, a pavillion?

I'll bet they are RCC.

[♫Rock*Star♫]

Didn't he say that when he was lashing out at the media while he was in his front yard? Between him and Cindy they are probably regretting a lot they have said in public.

I bet they are regretting alot of what they have said in the media. Now they have a criminal defense lawyer who is trying to take all their words back. JMO

[crymeariver2006]

I can't imagine Casey had this gals cap. She could not keep track of her own stuff. If it was a cap belonging to Annie, then it was left in the car imo. That would make it evidence imo. However more likely to me she and Casey had matching caps and out of anger, yes Casey destroyed her own cap. imo

Huh? You can't imagine Casey having this girl's cap? For one thing, she stole things. Not that I think she stole the cap, I'll agree that the cap was most likely left in the car. And yes, anything that was in that car would and should have been considered evidence, provided it was still in the car when it was picked up at Amscot. But we all know what happens to stinky things left in Casey's car, right?

This looked like deliberate destruction. Not that the cap was just thrown away, but cut, torn, and then thrown away.

[beemeup]

oh okay. Does anyone know if people consider "dinnerware" as a steak or butter knife? I am curious for my own reasons.lol
I personally do not derive anything from the dinnerware. Much more to look at. I keep a paring knife in my car as when i am on the road i am constantly eating fruit. However if i had all the other clues in this case in my car i would expect LE on my back.

[jammies]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurieann
have you guys seen this yet?
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...=70707&page=11

picture of Casey with Annie.
Annie is wearing the ball cap the trash lady found yesterday in the Anthony's garbage.
Who is Annie?

Sorry if it's already been posted.








Does anyone know where Annie is? Hmmm? Maybe it's Annie?
JMO
:confused:



Link doesn't work. Which thread is it on at WS?

[crymeariver2006]

I bet they are regretting alot of what they have said in the media. Now they have a criminal defense lawyer who is trying to take all their words back. JMO


I don't even think Dave Oreck makes a product that can do that.

;)

[WillowInFlight]

I bought dinnerware from Target. It was butter knive's in the box.

Thats what I would consider dinnerware, Steak knives are generally called steak knives aren't they?:confused:

[Rebel Rouzer]

I have heard the kids soaking blunts in embalming fluid, but have never heard them using chloroform. :shrug:

I know people who have relatives. Who soak Blunts and Swisher Sweets in Codeine or Robitusin for better and faster high. Not sure if they do that with Chloroform or not. :shrug:

[happy2bme]

Google dinnerware knife and you will see what kind of knife it might have been. It's no butter knife that's for sure. But I doubt Casey used a knife on Caylee.



I found them.

[forpsystudent]

TY ! I do recall hearing about Daubert and Frye way back in my first years of colloege ( I was a criminology major then, 1990+).
I personally have not needed the links to the viability of the air testing under discussion as I am not in a court of Law on a jury, and I tend to believe testing results ( and their reliability) from "The Body Farm".
I've followed some of their testing before, and their methodology is good enough for me.
:) TY for the offer of links to professional level sources though! I would not be likely to comprehend thoroughly anything that was terribly scientific anyway, and they would be wasted on me.
JMO.



YW!
Thanks for responding!

[SavannahStar]

Google dinnerware knife and you will see what kind of knife it might have been. It's no butter knife that's for sure. But I doubt Casey used a knife on Caylee.

A lot closer to a butter knife than a steak knife. I consider a dinnerware knife like the kind I set out for place settings (when NOT eating steak), the kind that came with the forks and spoons, LOL. Very NON-sharp blade, like a butter knife only bigger.

But I agree, a knife was not used in this case. I consider the found knife to be a red herring.

[Armchairdet]

Huh? You can't imagine Casey having this girl's cap? For one thing, she stole things. Not that I think she stole the cap, I'll agree that the cap was most likely left in the car. And yes, anything that was in that car would and should have been considered evidence, provided it was still in the car when it was picked up at Amscot. But we all know what happens to stinky things left in Casey's car, right?

This looked like deliberate destruction. Not that the cap was just thrown away, but cut, torn, and then thrown away.

I was under the understanding I could post an opinion here followed by imo, which I did. I also did not say she did not steal. Actually I said I could not imagine her having it. She did not live at home. She dumped her car. She lost her purse. Yet apparently she carried this gals cap around with her? I just did not think so. If I want to believe that two friends had matching caps, and one ruined hers out of anger at the other person, and I am not sitting on a witness stand stating it is fact, I see no harm. IMO

[Kathlb]

oh okay. Does anyone know if people consider "dinnerware" as a steak or butter knife? I am curious for my own reasons.lol


I just Googled "dinnerware knife" and came up with pages that showed both butter knives and some pages depicting "dinnerware chef's knives" which were of course sharp and included steak knives also. So it's a matter of what the person calling it dinnerware means. Clear as mud as is everything else in this case. :rolleyes:

[Ionmhainn]

oh okay. Does anyone know if people consider "dinnerware" as a steak or butter knife? I am curious for my own reasons.lol

The description makes me think of a butter knife, and I don't find it that unusual a thing to be found in a car. I keep one in with my art supplies.:shrug: Lots of uses, none of them "cutting." jmo

[crymeariver2006]

Makes ya wonder why Cindy didn't wash it along with the pants and whatever else might have been in the car.


I just re-read my post and didn't mean that the car was picked up at Amscot, but rather picked up at the tow yard. :D

Anyhooo, I also wonder what was in the car at the time the Anthonys picked it up. What was washed, what was discarded......I wonder if we'll ever know the truth about that.

:shrug:

[Joan Weiss]

:lol:


That's funny! I don't know what ya'll are talking about...

I'm not even sure what discussion about "leaks" are, what "leaks?"

But the gabby girl at the water cooler is funny LOL ~~~~~~:biggrin:~~~~~~

[barskin&co.]

New thread. All aboard!
http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=339742

[happy2bme]

I know people who have relatives. Who soak Blunts and Swisher Sweets in Codeine or Robitusin for better and faster high. Not sure if they do that with Chloroform or not. :shrug:


I have heard of them using embalming fluid also.

[Velouria]

But I agree, a knife was not used in this case. I consider the found knife to be a red herring.


Agreed, Savannah. I think this is what happens when there are no new statements from LE to talk about.

[Joan Weiss]

Who knows? She has a pool. Chloroform is CHCL3.

That means that Chlorine only needs to bond with a hydrocarbon to produce it. IF there were pool supplies being carried in the back of the trunk, and the air sniffer that they used for testing for the body had improper venting or cross contaminated, you could potentially get a false positive from that.

Heck, if you go to your bank and get a $20 from the ATM, I suspect that trace amounts of chlorine could be found on the bill.

And we don't know if the searches were for cholorform. Only that they were related to chloroform. I know that I have friends who own pools who search for chlorine and pool supplies online.

Technically, if you looked anything up about chloroform, there are searches on YOUR computer too.That trunk is getting bigger every day. Arm & Hammer, garbage, wheel wedges, and now pool supplies...That Casey is a busy, hard-working woman...:rolleyes:

imo

ETA: Oh dang, I forgot the gas cans...Is there any room left?

[happy2bme]

<p>A lot closer to a butter knife than a steak knife. I consider a dinnerware knife like the kind I set out for place settings (when NOT eating steak), the kind that came with the forks and spoons, LOL. Very NON-sharp blade, like a butter knife only bigger. </p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>But I agree, a knife was not used in this case. I consider the found knife to be a red herring.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>I don't think the knife was used either. I had two in my car because I was trying to get a jammed CD out of my player.</p>

[crymeariver2006]

I was under the understanding I could post an opinion here followed by imo, which I did. I also did not say she did not steal. Actually I said I could not imagine her having it. She did not live at home. She dumped her car. She lost her purse. Yet apparently she carried this gals cap around with her? I just did not think so. If I want to believe that two friends had matching caps, and one ruined hers out of anger at the other person, and I am not sitting on a witness stand stating it is fact, I see no harm. IMO

Not quite sure why you think I was questioning your right to have an opinion and state it as such.

You can believe they had matching caps and maybe they did. Only thing is Annie is wearing hers in the picture and Casey isn't. So I don't know if Casey owned one or not.

I don't know that she lost her purse. I don't know that she carried this girl's cap around with her as opposed to it having been left in the car at some point prior to the car being abandoned.

[Rebel Rouzer]

Swisher Sweets are made with marijuana now?

I know i said lastnight that I would not post to you again but I refuse to have my posts twisted into something I did not state. The exact reason I didn't want to reply to you anymore.

I did not state that Swisher Sweets were made with marijuana. I stated that there are people related to others I know that soak them in Codeine and Robitusin for a faster and better high along with doing the same with BLUNTS. BLUNTS contain marijuana. Swisher sweets do not unless They use a Swisher Sweet and create a blunt with it just likethey do with a regular cigar.

[luvinlife]

butter knife I would think, since it's part of a table setting.



I also believe it to be a butter knife. I eat dinner with dinner ware, I eat steak with a steak knife.

[OneUp]

ANNIE DOWNING

The friend that went with her to get the tattoo????AHA! I thought I remembered an Annie...wasn't she friends with Sean D.

I'm searching the doc.s for her. Mine are such a mess though, some of the links I have are missing pages...at least they won't download for me.
I thought she had something to do with the tattoo as well. Maybe she was at the Tat. shop?
JMO...I'm looking for a link once baby falls to sleep.

[Armchairdet]

I'm sure at some point in my life, a knife of some sort or another could be found in my car.

You might try meat tenderizer, btw.



I have actually had a knife of sorts in my trunk quite often. Hunting, fishing, camping, picnics. So yeah, I have.

[VC2]

So who do you think George meant when he said <paraphrasing> the body in that trunk is not my granddaughter?

pretty well exactly what he said, i think george is more realistic about the evidence but he is also a quick reactor (witness his temperment). When someone told him about the evidence, at first he accepted it and then immediately believed that it was anyone or thing except caylee in the trunk. Perhaps a dog, perhaps some homeless person got in and died, anything but anything except his granddaughter.

Once he thought more and realized it was pretty impossible imo he now doesn't believe the forensics, thinks there was probably some contamination, screwed up results, again ANYTHING but evidence caylee is dead.

That is where they can't go, and that is why they say bizarre things. George may suspect it more, seems that he is pretty tense with casey in the house if padilla/dick can be believed but i still don't think he is close to thinking caylee is dead or caysee did it.

Soon as its possible to accept the grandparents are just unable to face caylee's death is possible/true then almost all of their words make sense. They are only nonsense if they believe she is dead and i will say it again, that is not going to come easily since it means they need to accept their daughter is not just a monster but the sort of evil rarely seen. Far worse than a liar, sociopath, thief. That shakes the very foundations of both of them in their own self identity. Mother, father, raising children right etc etc. One is screwed up, but so are many kids. Murdering her own child though? facing they loved/lived/raised this evil? undercuts everything they believed about their lives and who they are. i would be more shocked if the gp's could accept it by now.

imo



































jmo

[beemeup]

A lot of things in life defy logic, but thankfully there are people who aren't ready to castrate victims by jumping to conclusions on their own, purely out of frustration that they themselves, who are totally undeserving of answers to an ongoing Criminal case, aren't 'being told'.

Making something more sinister than it already is with Caylee missing isn't going to provide anyone with anything other than more board fodder, rumor, and unfounded innuendo.

It's simply unproductive and inhumane.
But then why should the person in question lie if they have nothing to hide. Of course when a person of question lies it brings about more questions.

[redcard]

That trunk is getting bigger every day. Arm & Hammer, garbage, wheel wedges, and now pool supplies...That Casey is a busy, hard-working woman...:rolleyes:

imo

You know , liquids can leak into a trunk, right? They didn't say they found a bottle of chloroform, just that the tests showed trace amounts of chloroform..

What that means is not that there was chloroform in the trunk, but that the reactive test showed something that hit positive on the test for chloroform. Lots of things can do that.

It doesn't require a big trunk . Unless you clean your trunk with a steam vac and sanitation equipment, I'd imagine you'd be surprised at what science can say they find in there.

[jbellaj]

Swisher Sweets are made with marijuana now?


:lol:That was good, I liked that

[crymeariver2006]

We don't know what all was even in that trunk, Cindy could have removed a host of items.

Heck for all we know Casey could have had Georges gun in that trunk and he got that back before LE showed up.

Who knows how much tampering with evidence that Cindy and George did..

For all we know...

True dat!

:D

[forpsystudent]

Okay, thank you. That makes sense. Another question. At one point during the Spector trial, a special person (and I wish I could remember the exact title) was appointed by the judge to handle that type of situation to keep himself out of the loop so as not to show prejudice in any way. I believe it was a woman. So then, would she be called the Gatekeeper in that instance?



No clue.
Except that, in a way, the judge did "open the gate?"

[♫Rock*Star♫]

A lot of things in life defy logic, but thankfully there are people who aren't ready to castrate victims by jumping to conclusions on their own, purely out of frustration that they themselves, who are totally undeserving of answers to an ongoing Criminal case, aren't 'being told'.

Making something more sinister than it already is with Caylee missing isn't going to provide anyone with anything other than more board fodder, rumor, and unfounded innuendo.

It's simply unproductive and inhumane.

George and Cindy have made almost everything in this case sinister. How inhumane of them. JMO

[day2day]

:lol:That was good, I liked that


Why do i see a rush of certain posters runnin to the store for swisher sweets...:D

[Kathlb]

Do you realize how long it's been since we have had any statements, news or leaks from the LE? What do you think they are doing all of a sudden? I have my own thoughts on that but wondered why you all think it's so quiet all of a sudden?

[day2day]

First of all, no, I'm not doing what most are doing here, which is continually making something sinister out of the behaviors of grieving Grandparents. Those posts comprise the majority of these threads.

Secondly, don't pretend that you, or anyone else is allowed to create post after post doing the above mentioned, but yet I'm not allowed to voice my displeasure in the fact that these Grandparents are being put through a sieve.

It doesn't work that way.

GRIEVING?! They are GRIEVING? For the love of God..if they are ..I don't see it....
I have SEEN grieving famiies..i have HEARD their screams and listened to their sobs...

Grieving grandparents DON'T spend their time hiring PR firms..and attornies to protect their public image

JMO

[spiritwolf46]

Well pray-tell what is logical about this case? This case seems to defy logic.

For sure no one has ever accused me of being logical, because after all I do believe in God and do believe that somebody will answer for this injustice in the end, whether a body is found or not.

GAWD do I love this post! :seeya:

[redcard]

GRIEVING?! They are GRIEVING? For the love of God..if they are ..I don't see it....
I have SEEN grieving famiies..i have HEARD their screams and listened to their sobs...

Grieving grandparents DON'T spend their time hiring PR firms..

JMO

Uh, actually.. since the Duke case, it's been pretty much a standard for innocent people to hire PR Firms to control the out of control media.

[♫Rock*Star♫]

It's ridiculous to view their belief that their Granddaughter is alive, as being something sinister.

I agree. Who said that?

[WinnieLeigh7]

That trunk is getting bigger every day. Arm & Hammer, garbage, wheel wedges, and now pool supplies...That Casey is a busy, hard-working woman...:rolleyes:

imo

ETA: Oh dang, I forgot the gas cans...Is there any room left?

:beer:


True, True...

Clothes, Backpacks, Laptops, Purse, every except the kitchen sink...

although we do have a knife.

[Rebel Rouzer]

Why do i see a rush of certain posters runnin to the store for swisher sweets...:D


My understanding is By themselves Swisher sweets do not get you high. Soaking them in the things I mentioned. Gets you a fst and better high that having the codeine or robitusin alone.
Never tried it myself but hey whoeever wants to google it or try it is their personal choice. not mine. IMO

[Deb7]

Link doesn't work. Which thread is it on at WS?


Sorry, link doesn't work maybe because I quoted someone or something... I have no idea what the link is, it was just a part of that quote.

:shrug:

[day2day]

Uh, actually.. since the Duke case, it's been pretty much a standard for innocent people to hire PR Firms to control the out of control media.

Oh please...
And next you will try to make me believe that grieving families don't bother searching for their missing loved ones. I don't buy it.
jmo..

[redcard]

Do you realize how long it's been since we have had any statements, news or leaks from the LE? What do you think they are doing all of a sudden? I have my own thoughts on that but wondered why you all think it's so quiet all of a sudden?

My suspicion is that LE has told the media to shut the hell up or risk ruining the case.

I suspect that LE has been told by the Anthony's lawyer to move forward on charges or stop the leaks under threat of lawsuit and harassment charges.

This, I believe, has pushed the investigation into the point where it will either live on the evidence it has.. or I suspect.. die on the vine due to the evidence proclaimed simply not being there.

[Kathlb]

It's ridiculous to view their belief that their Granddaughter is alive, as being something sinister.

If I had a child (yes I raised three) that told me as many stories as the Anthony's have told concerning Caylee's absence and their daughter's involvement, and kept switching their "facts" almost daily but surely weekly, I would probably not term it sinister. However I would definitely know that they were lying and covering something up. Just common sense. MOO

[jbellaj]

I know. I wonder how many people just went out to get themselves a box of swishers?
:seeya:

Check your PM

[day2day]

Most grieving grandparents also don't have a lynch mob outside their home, yelling "baby killer" either.

imo

Hmm..well IF they didn't want to hear those things. They might could have left her arse in jail where she belongs. JMO

[Kathlb]

No clue.
Except that, in a way, the judge did "open the gate?"

Evidently. Or he opened the gate and let someone else guard it while he took a break. ;)

[frances1]

You know , liquids can leak into a trunk, right? They didn't say they found a bottle of chloroform, just that the tests showed trace amounts of chloroform..

What that means is not that there was chloroform in the trunk, but that the reactive test showed something that hit positive on the test for chloroform. Lots of things can do that.

It doesn't require a big trunk . Unless you clean your trunk with a steam vac and sanitation equipment, I'd imagine you'd be surprised at what science can say they find in there.


According to Nancy Grace, it was not trace amounts, but large amounts.

[num1barb]

Believe me, you'll get no argument from me about Casey's character, or shall we say, lack thereof.

I don't condone nor believe her lies, and never have.

But wait....I thought you were a poster who believed that Caylee was kidnapped?? Do I have you mistaken for some other poster??? TIA for your response

[day2day]

My understanding is By themselves Swisher sweets do not get you high. Soaking them in the things I mentioned. Gets you a fst and better high that having the codeine or robitusin alone.
Never tried it myself but hey whoeever wants to google it or try it is their personal choice. not mine. IMO

I have heard of this...(not tried it)..but i am sure there are "certain" posters who haven't. :read:

[redcard]

According to Nancy Grace, it was not trace amounts, but large amounts.

Yeah, well, according to Nancy Grace, Richard Ricci killed Elizabeth Smart, the Duke Boys are Rapists, her fiance was killed by someone the police knew and he almost got off, and a variety of other things.

There's a reason she's not a lawyer anymore, and you know it's got to be bad when a LAWYER gets kicked out of the game.

All reports are now saying "trace" amounts. Only one saying large amounts is the one who constantly lies and makes things up.

[tiny paw-prints]

George sure did say a body was in the car. All evidence points to it being Caylee. Occam's razor. Casey killed Caylee and George may have something to do with the cover up. JMO

I'm sure LE has tracked George's pings. At one point, Cindy has said she called George to "get home now" and during the 3rd 911 "panic" call--you can hear Cindy talking to George in the background.

I think George knew who the "kidnappers" were before Cindy's 3rd 911 panic call.

[Rebel Rouzer]

Check your PM

Check yours

[Laurieann]

Link doesn't work. Which thread is it on at WS?


it's on the digging thru trash thread
page 11 for pic of friend in the hat
page 14 post 341 for hat in the trash


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70707&page=14

[spiritwolf46]

Most grieving grandparents also don't have a lynch mob outside their home, yelling "baby killer" either.

imo

That is 100 percent correct and as that poster implicated, George and Cindy ARE NOT GRIEVING! Which is WHY they have the protestors outside yelling what they are yelling!

IMO, Casey is exactly what they are yelling and she and the grandparents have no grieving pulses in their bodies.

Anything else? :seeya:

[FoxySly]

I am sure they have alot of experience with situations like this then we all do. Their org. name is never loose hope thats exactly what the A's are doing. Whether it is right or wrong. I am back to defending the A's we can all say we would do this or we would do that. But who knows what we would really do untill you are in those shoes and lets all hope to god that does not happen to any of us. Again I have pity on them it is actually really sad they will come to the realization one day the their g-child was killed by their daughter and live the rest of their life with that horror. Why should we feel the need to speed up the process they are working with police. I do feel they have done things that have been completely wrong such as the tim episode. The whole thing is a nightmare not the worlds nighmere not this board nighmare it is the A's nightmare

Well patty I know what I would do & it sure ain't what the anthony's are doing but then I raised my Son to have morals & character.

I lost my 2nd Child, a Son before he was 6 months. I could never have no more Children after his birth

My 1st Son when he was 20 got a girl pregnant who end up being a melinda. she wigged out and killed my 1st Grandchild. It was an accident (NOT).

When I was 8 years old I was given the care of my Baby Brother, later I got legal custody from the state of Nevada.
He was killed by a 3X convicted drunk driver. His death was like losing a Son & Brother.

A few years back my Grandpa J was stabbed to death in his kitchen by one with mental health problems who didn't think they needed their meds.

These are facts that can be found on the net, Nevada is pretty open with their court records.

I'm not typing this for sympathy or roses, I'm typing it so you understand that I DO KNOW WHAT I WOULD DO.

But I guess I had an Ace up my sleeve because MY BOYS (Son & Brother) were taught about morals & to have character.

It is unbelievable to me that ones own Child could live under a parents roof for years & them believing in her fake job, fake nanny, fake life.

she learned that IMO from her parents & george being former LE will it is easy to see why he ain't no more when he can't even figure out his daughter who is living UNDER HIS ROOF is lying every time she opens her mouth.
Dang, if people are really that ignorant they should be housed somewhere for theirs & others safety, so we could still have Caylee.

Unbelievable to me that someone with a normal IQ would fall for such bull. IMO they just wanted to believe even knowing casey's life was all lies.
I bet cindy bragged to her co-workers word for word of the great job casey told her about while knowing deep down they were lies. IMO

Sly

[day2day]

Apparently she doens't belong there, at this point, or she would be there.

They invited her home. They might as well get used to this hell they are living with. It isnt' goin away anytime soon. jmo

[jbellaj]

Do you realize how long it's been since we have had any statements, news or leaks from the LE? What do you think they are doing all of a sudden? I have my own thoughts on that but wondered why you all think it's so quiet all of a sudden?

IMHO They are going to drop the big one soon.

[FrankieBones1]

Hi, folks. A new thread has been started for the afternoon. Would love to see you all over there.

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?p=12093827&posted=1#post12093827

[spiritwolf46]

Well patty I know what I would do & it sure ain't what the anthony's are doing but then I raised my Son to have morals & character.

I lost my 2nd Child, a Son before he was 6 months. I could never have no more Children after his birth

My 1st Son when he was 20 got a girl pregnant who end up being a melinda. she wigged out and killed my 1st Grandchild. It was an accident (NOT).

When I was 8 years old I was given the care of my Baby Brother, later I got legal custody from the state of Nevada.
He was killed by a 3X convicted drunk driver. His death was like losing a Son & Brother.

A few years back my Grandpa J was stabbed to death in his kitchen by one with mental health problems who didn't think they needed their meds.

These are facts that can be found on the net, Nevada is pretty open with their court records.

I'm not typing this for sympathy or roses, I'm typing it so you understand that I DO KNOW WHAT I WOULD DO.

But I guess I had an Ace up my sleeve because MY BOYS (Son & Brother) were taught about morals & to have character.

It is unbelievable to me that ones own Child could live under a parents roof for years & them believing in her fake job, fake nanny, fake life.

she learned that IMO from her parents & george being former LE will it is easy to see why he ain't no more when he can't even figure out his daughter who is living UNDER HIS ROOF is lying every time she opens her mouth.
Dang, if people are really that ignorant they should be housed somewhere for theirs & others safety, so we could still have Caylee.

Unbelievable to me that someone with a normal IQ would fall for such bull. IMO they just wanted to believe even knowing casey's life was all lies.
I bet cindy bragged to her co-workers word for word of the great job casey told her about while knowing deep down they were lies. IMO

Sly

You are getting a couple of roses anyway. For you and your family!!!!

:rose::rose::rose:

[Unperson1984]

Dinnerware knife can mean either Butter knife or Steak Knife or a combination of both. just like you get at Outback Steakhouse. It's used for Bread, butter and Steaks. IMO


I tend to believe that LE would have called it a steak knife if it was a steak knife. It was likely a place knife, in other words the one used in a standard four piece place setting.

[frances1]

Yeah, well, according to Nancy Grace, Richard Ricci killed Elizabeth Smart, the Duke Boys are Rapists, her fiance was killed by someone the police knew and he almost got off, and a variety of other things.

There's a reason she's not a lawyer anymore, and you know it's got to be bad when a LAWYER gets kicked out of the game.

All reports are now saying "trace" amounts. Only one saying large amounts is the one who constantly lies and makes things up.


Please show me the link for "trace" amounts.

[♫Rock*Star♫]

I tend to believe that LE would have called it a steak knife if it was a steak knife. It was likely a place knife, in other words the one used in a standard four piece place setting.

Do you recall what Cindy described it as?

[SavannahStar]

Please show me the link for "trace" amounts.


Bookie posted it earlier.

[forpsystudent]

Evidently. Or he opened the gate and let someone else guard it while he took a break. ;)


Probably went out to smoke a Swisher Sweet.

[WinnieLeigh7]

You know , liquids can leak into a trunk, right? They didn't say they found a bottle of chloroform, just that the tests showed trace amounts of chloroform..

What that means is not that there was chloroform in the trunk, but that the reactive test showed something that hit positive on the test for chloroform. Lots of things can do that.

It doesn't require a big trunk . Unless you clean your trunk with a steam vac and sanitation equipment, I'd imagine you'd be surprised at what science can say they find in there.

Wait, wait, Wait...


But they did say "Cleaning fluids" way back when...


It was "rotting pizza" and "Cleaning fluids" that may that horrible smell, sitting in the car for "12 days" in the heat...


Because I remember asking, well who cleans their car and leaves trash in it.


CLEANING FLUIDS!!!!

This was announced by the Anthonys, BEFORE the chloroform info

:eek:


Okay, I just remembered this...
anyone else recall this?? Have a link to that statement?

[jbellaj]

Well patty I know what I would do & it sure ain't what the anthony's are doing but then I raised my Son to have morals & character.

I lost my 2nd Child, a Son before he was 6 months. I could never have no more Children after his birth

My 1st Son when he was 20 got a girl pregnant who end up being a melinda. she wigged out and killed my 1st Grandchild. It was an accident (NOT).

When I was 8 years old I was given the care of my Baby Brother, later I got legal custody from the state of Nevada.
He was killed by a 3X convicted drunk driver. His death was like losing a Son & Brother.

A few years back my Grandpa J was stabbed to death in his kitchen by one with mental health problems who didn't think they needed their meds.

These are facts that can be found on the net, Nevada is pretty open with their court records.

I'm not typing this for sympathy or roses, I'm typing it so you understand that I DO KNOW WHAT I WOULD DO.

But I guess I had an Ace up my sleeve because MY BOYS (Son & Brother) were taught about morals & to have character.

It is unbelievable to me that ones own Child could live under a parents roof for years & them believing in her fake job, fake nanny, fake life.

she learned that IMO from her parents & george being former LE will it is easy to see why he ain't no more when he can't even figure out his daughter who is living UNDER HIS ROOF is lying every time she opens her mouth.
Dang, if people are really that ignorant they should be housed somewhere for theirs & others safety, so we could still have Caylee.

Unbelievable to me that someone with a normal IQ would fall for such bull. IMO they just wanted to believe even knowing casey's life was all lies.
I bet cindy bragged to her co-workers word for word of the great job casey told her about while knowing deep down they were lies. IMO

Sly


I'm very sorry for your loss :rose:

[redcard]

Please show me the link for "trace" amounts.

http://www.540wfla.com/cc-common/mainheadlines3.html?feed=227698&article=4189566

http://www.abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=5725163&page=1

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/national/south/view/2008_09_04_Chloroform_traces_found_in_Casey_Anthon y_s_car__FBI_lab_reports/srvc=home&position=recent

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/09/03/fla.missing.girl/?iref=hpmostpop

Also, note that the CNN link was the one that was up AS NANCY GRACE was on the air screaming about LARGE AMOUNTS.

If you read the transcripts, you'll see that in the span of a show, she basically turned trace amounts of what could have been a false positive into LARGE HUGE AMOUNTS OMG!

[OneUp]

Hello Rebel!
I found a link just for you...

Smokenders:
http://www.smokenders.co.za/smokenders/reference/Addiction_is_nicotine_addictive.htm
"In February 2000, the Royal College of Physicians (RCP) published a report on nicotine addiction which concluded that "Cigarettes are highly efficient nicotine delivery devices and are as addictive as drugs such as heroin or cocaine."... "
So, to any who felt the need to mock Rebels statement about getting an enhanced "high" from soaking Swishers in cough syrup...I guess this link will clear up for you the FACT that nicotine is a drug and can create a "high" all on it's own....as do many other substances. I don't even generally partake of caffeine myself for the same reason. I'm wired enough most days w/o stimulants.
JMO.
ETA: therefore, people might soak even a Swisher Swet in Chloroform to get a "high".
JMO>

[SavannahStar]

Please show me the link for "trace" amounts.


http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-caylee0408sep04,0,6717044.story
Chloroform traces found in Casey Anthony's car, FBI lab reports

[SavannahStar]

http://www.540wfla.com/cc-common/mainheadlines3.html?feed=227698&article=4189566

http://www.abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=5725163&page=1

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/national/south/view/2008_09_04_Chloroform_traces_found_in_Casey_Anthon y_s_car__FBI_lab_reports/srvc=home&position=recent

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/09/03/fla.missing.girl/?iref=hpmostpop

Also, note that the CNN link was the one that was up AS NANCY GRACE was on the air screaming about LARGE AMOUNTS.

If you read the transcripts, you'll see that in the span of a show, she basically turned trace amounts of what could have been a false positive into LARGE HUGE AMOUNTS OMG!


Good job. You should post this on the new afternoon thread too. Lest anyone continues with the "huge amounts of chloroform" NG ranting......:tongue:

[WinnieLeigh7]

In relation to the "grieving grandparents" believe Caylee is alive, just remember they were the FIRST of ANYONE to report dead body smells, searching for Caylee under the playhouse, suspecting foul play....


Then BAM, the world was against them, and Caylee was alive and we're all maggots for thinking otherwise!!

[jammies]

If I had a child (yes I raised three) that told me as many stories as the Anthony's have told concerning Caylee's absence and their daughter's involvement, and kept switching their "facts" almost daily but surely weekly, I would probably not term it sinister. However I would definitely know that they were lying and covering something up. Just common sense. MOO


THey are repeating their daughters lies and expecting us to buy it. Then they lie and change their stories....so yes, I think it's sinister.

[anon-o-miss]

I was under the understanding I could post an opinion here followed by imo, which I did. I also did not say she did not steal. Actually I said I could not imagine her having it. She did not live at home. She dumped her car. She lost her purse. Yet apparently she carried this gals cap around with her? I just did not think so. If I want to believe that two friends had matching caps, and one ruined hers out of anger at the other person, and I am not sitting on a witness stand stating it is fact, I see no harm. IMO
I think it is the same hat as in the picture because the hat as frayed in the same spots in both pictures. Casey could have been wearing a hat when she disposed of Caylees body , or her car. IMO the hat was ripped to the extreme, it could have been done out of anger or just ripped up so that if LE was looking through their trash they wouldn't wonder why she threw away a perfectly good hat. Whatever happened to the hat was intentional IMO for whatever reason. I do think that maybe that hat could have been evidence she was trying to dispose of.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70707&page=14
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70707&page=11

[frances1]

http://www.540wfla.com/cc-common/mainheadlines3.html?feed=227698&article=4189566

http://www.abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=5725163&page=1

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/national/south/view/2008_09_04_Chloroform_traces_found_in_Casey_Anthon y_s_car__FBI_lab_reports/srvc=home&position=recent

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/09/03/fla.missing.girl/?iref=hpmostpop

Also, note that the CNN link was the one that was up AS NANCY GRACE was on the air screaming about LARGE AMOUNTS.

If you read the transcripts, you'll see that in the span of a show, she basically turned trace amounts of what could have been a false positive into LARGE HUGE AMOUNTS OMG!


Look, I'm not particularly a Nancy Grace fan, but I think it depends on how the article is interpreted, and we are not yet privy to the forensic facts. The articles (three of which were identical=written by one individual) states "traces of" chloroform. It does not say trace amounts. "Traces of" could mean that it was evident, it does not necessarily quantify. We shall see when this case goes to trial.

[Mandysmom]

They need to get her to slip up and admit something factual or something that they can use against her.

Simply lying is not evidence that she killed Caylee. Yes, it's circumstantial, and it'll inflame a jury to hell and back, but this case never gets to trial without evidence that Caylee is 1) dead, and 2) that Casey did it.

We can argue all day about how much we "think" she did it. We can discuss that she's a liar and a horrible person, and you'll get zero disagreement from me on that.

But..

We need her to mess up and to give up something that can be used. Right now, all they really have her on is lying to investigators. That's serious, but, a liar does not mean a murderer. There must be evidence of the murder.
I agree with you and I do believe that they are working towards that goal.

[redcard]

Look, I'm not particularly a Nancy Grace fan, but I think it depends on how the article is interpreted, and we are not yet privy to the forensic facts. The articles (three of which were identical=written by one individual) states "traces of" chloroform. It does not say trace amounts. "Traces of" could mean that it was evident, it does not necessarily quantify. We shall see when this case goes to trial.

Oh please.

We're not privy to them, but Nancy is? Get over it. Trace amounts , traces of, traces.

It's the same damn thing, and we watched Nancy take it from Trace amounts to LARGE HUGE AMOUNTS.

Traces of means trace amounts. That's why it's called "traces."

If you are going to get traces of rain.. that doesn't mean you're getting huge amounts.

If your child has traces of the flu, that doesn't mean he's about to keel over from pneumonia.

The fact is, traces means trace amounts.

It always has, it always will, and when forensics are talking about traces, that's ALWAYS what they mean.

[Loves2Read]

That is 100 percent correct and as that poster implicated, George and Cindy ARE NOT GRIEVING! Which is WHY they have the protestors outside yelling what they are yelling!

IMO, Casey is exactly what they are yelling and she and the grandparents have no grieving pulses in their bodies.

Anything else? :seeya:

What a logical post. I agree that the people are paying lots of attention to this case because of the way the family is acting. Not very many people buy into the lies and are supporting people who obviously have something to hide IMO.

[Mandysmom]

It was probably a very realistic theory that Richard Ricci killed Elizabeth Smart....just sayin'
I don't believe that after Ricci's death however, that Elizabeth's parents gave up on the searching for their daughter.

They certainly didn't go over book and movie deals and were very gracious to the people who took the time and effort to look for Elizabeth.

Two very different cases. There was reason to suspect Ricci at the time and if he hadn't died, I believe he would have been cleared of the suspicion in Elizabeth's disappearance, before she was found.

We'll never know though.

[Mandysmom]

good post. I like logical posts, like this one.

Logical? Not really. The logical thing to do in order to prove their daughter's innocence is to pull out all of the stops in order to find Caylee.

That's the one thing they aren't doing though. They are so busy defending her actions, yet they don't seem to be too keen on finding Caylee.

I've heard the arguments about the denial and the thoughts that she's alive. Then put that money they used to bail Casey out of jail to better use in finding the one person who could set her free.

It makes no sense.

[Armchairdet]

I think it is the same hat as in the picture because the hat as frayed in the same spots in both pictures. Casey could have been wearing a hat when she disposed of Caylees body , or her car. IMO the hat was ripped to the extreme, it could have been done out of anger or just ripped up so that if LE was looking through their trash they wouldn't wonder why she threw away a perfectly good hat. Whatever happened to the hat was intentional IMO for whatever reason. I do think that maybe that hat could have been evidence she was trying to dispose of.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70707&page=14
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70707&page=11

I do believe you are correct about the cap. Thanks for the links.:beer:

[Mandysmom]

A lot of things in life defy logic, but thankfully there are people who aren't ready to castrate victims by jumping to conclusions on their own, purely out of frustration that they themselves, who are totally undeserving of answers to an ongoing Criminal case, aren't 'being told'.

Making something more sinister than it already is with Caylee missing isn't going to provide anyone with anything other than more board fodder, rumor, and unfounded innuendo.

It's simply unproductive and inhumane.
Yes, what would we do without those with a higher calling who take it upon themselves to make sure we who are totally undeserving of answers or speculation on a message board are kept in line?

Whew! That was a long run on sentence. lol

[kakax]

New Motion Filed In Casey Anthony Case

http://www.wesh.com/news/17438472/detail.html

[Carol25]

Well patty I know what I would do & it sure ain't what the anthony's are doing but then I raised my Son to have morals & character.

I lost my 2nd Child, a Son before he was 6 months. I could never have no more Children after his birth

My 1st Son when he was 20 got a girl pregnant who end up being a melinda. she wigged out and killed my 1st Grandchild. It was an accident (NOT).

When I was 8 years old I was given the care of my Baby Brother, later I got legal custody from the state of Nevada.
He was killed by a 3X convicted drunk driver. His death was like losing a Son & Brother.

A few years back my Grandpa J was stabbed to death in his kitchen by one with mental health problems who didn't think they needed their meds.

These are facts that can be found on the net, Nevada is pretty open with their court records.

I'm not typing this for sympathy or roses, I'm typing it so you understand that I DO KNOW WHAT I WOULD DO.

But I guess I had an Ace up my sleeve because MY BOYS (Son & Brother) were taught about morals & to have character.

It is unbelievable to me that ones own Child could live under a parents roof for years & them believing in her fake job, fake nanny, fake life.

she learned that IMO from her parents & george being former LE will it is easy to see why he ain't no more when he can't even figure out his daughter who is living UNDER HIS ROOF is lying every time she opens her mouth.
Dang, if people are really that ignorant they should be housed somewhere for theirs & others safety, so we could still have Caylee.

Unbelievable to me that someone with a normal IQ would fall for such bull. IMO they just wanted to believe even knowing casey's life was all lies.
I bet cindy bragged to her co-workers word for word of the great job casey told her about while knowing deep down they were lies. IMO

Sly
Oh, FoxSly, I commend you and consider your experience gives you credence to be an expert on emotions and what is happening in this case. I enjoy your posts and find them informative. May God give you boundless blessings! :rose:

[Carol25]

New Motion Filed In Casey Anthony Case

http://www.wesh.com/news/17438472/detail.html
Imagine that! A bus load of Alzheimer's patients wanted to go by the Anthony's home to do something different. It's so nice to think that some of them are able to follow the case and request this. I bet the bus driver got a chuckle out of that and had a big smile!

Anything they can relate to is a blessing. I would love to be there if they wish to view the trial an d listen to their comments on the trial! (My mom was afflicted, and I can remember her suddenly talking about a current event. I was overjoyed!)

No need to bash..

[spiritwolf46]

New Motion Filed In Casey Anthony Case

http://www.wesh.com/news/17438472/detail.html

UN-FREAKIN-BELIEVABLE! So, instead of getting answers from his precious litte princess killer, he comes out with a publicity stunt?

:flamemad:

[kakax]

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=339742&page=8


Come on over to new thread!!!

[Carol25]

UN-FREAKIN-BELIEVABLE! So, instead of getting answers from his precious litte princess killer, he comes out with a publicity stunt?

:flamemad:
I think he wants to do forensics tests himself. Fine! Go after it! The pros. is being so careful, they won't make any mistakes.

Keep spending money, Baez. Who is going to pay for these forensics tests? I still cannot believe people are giving money to this "defense fund!"

[spiritwolf46]

I think he wants to do forensics tests himself. Fine! Go after it! The pros. is being so careful, they won't make any mistakes.

Keep spending money, Baez. Who is going to pay for these forensics tests? I still cannot believe people are giving money to this "defense fund!"


I cannot believe that they are still giving to this fund either, Carol! Make me ill!

[Joan Weiss]

My suspicion is that LE has told the media to shut the hell up or risk ruining the case.

I suspect that LE has been told by the Anthony's lawyer to move forward on charges or stop the leaks under threat of lawsuit and harassment charges.

This, I believe, has pushed the investigation into the point where it will either live on the evidence it has.. or I suspect.. die on the vine due to the evidence proclaimed simply not being there.Oh, please. The media is not to blame for the stories Cindy and George and Casey make up. Did you forget the roundtable discussion in which LE had to call the media to discredit all the Anthonys' assertions?

Ha, ha, imagine a lawyer telling LE to stop the leaks and making threats. You can't sue LE on those assertions, since there is no proof of same.

Is this your wish list? imo

[Joan Weiss]

Please show me the link for "trace" amounts.Yes, I'd like to see that, too.

[redcard]

Yes, I'd like to see that, too.

Posted repeatedly in this thread and others.

Please read.