Ray Gricar, missing since 4-15-2005

[Politigal]

gone but not forgotten

A song for Tony

http://youtube.com/watch?v=AKGpZuadMsA

[J. J. in Phila]

"will soon become a campaign issue for the PA Attorney General, Tom Corbett," is perhaps too optimistic. There is no sign yet that his opponent plans to even discuss it.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks



I choose optimism. It seems there are quite a number of issues all of which point to the fact Corbett makes only the moves he wants to and avoids any he doesn't want to. Morganelli hopefully will call him on his prosecutorial moves and non-moves.

http://www.citizensvoice.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=19327023&BRD=2259&PAG=461&dept_id=571464&rfi=6
JMO [/*]

Optimism is quite different from fact:

Fact: Neither candidate has raised the issue.

Fact: There is no great outcry, from the electorate, to involve the Attorney General's Office.

I'm not happy about either fact, but that doesn't change the facts.

[Cloudbuster]

JJ the facts can be changed just like the constitution got a makeover with the patriot act. Anything including facts can change. Nothing stays the same forever. The person who picks up the ball and runs with this case would be politically smart. So many folks out there have been dubbed by this case and they are misinformed. It really needs more attention. A officer in my area thought that this case was being handled by the sheriffs office lol. I told him thats not true, he told me that it should be. He really thought it was. Thats the mentality of this case. Someone should go public with the fact that it isn't being handled properly. BPD did everything that they knew how to do. Now MM should be faced with preasure of why it remains in the BPD's hands. TC also needs to be publiclly addressed on why that isn't happening. If need be Mr Rendell should be addresses to. While we are at it why isn't Murtha a higher channel being asked? Now that Im banging on my drum lol who is higher than Murtha?:lol:
GOD are you listening?

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by logicworks



I choose optimism. It seems there are quite a number of issues all of which point to the fact Corbett makes only the moves he wants to and avoids any he doesn't want to. Morganelli hopefully will call him on his prosecutorial moves and non-moves.

http://www.citizensvoice.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=19327023&BRD=2259&PAG=461&dept_id=571464&rfi=6
JMO [/*]

I tried to contact the author of the link but the email address does not work.

I have written to that newspaper with a request to follow up on AG Tom Corbette and running mate John Morganelli with questions on the case of one of Pa's District Attorney's who has been missing for 3 years (during AG TC's watch) and no help has come forth from Attorney General Tom Corbette to find RG.

I have also ask if a question and answer on RG's case could be given to the two men running for the AG's position in the upcoming election, BEFORE the election, and as part of their campaign election questions.

I don't want to hear what they will do after they are elected. I want to hear it as part of their campaign, NOW

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila




Fact: Neither candidate has raised the issue.

[/*]

FACT: No newspapers or newsmen/women have brought the question up of Centre Counties missing District Attorney Ray Gricar, to either of the men, AG Tom Corbette and John Morganelli, who is running against him.

Why not?

[sherrijean981]

ELECTION OF ATTORNEY GENERAL

I was reading an article in Citizen's Voice on the internet, about the Attorney General's upcoming election.

One thing I have not seen in the questions and answers and what they will do if in office concerns the Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar, who has been missing since 2005, while under the watch of Attorney General Tom Corbette.

I would like DA Ray Gricar's missing case brought out to the public, before the election. I want to know why Attorney General Tom Corbette has not stepped in with any help, and where John Morganelli stands on it, BEFORE the election.

I would like the news to pick up on Centre County DA Ray Gricar's case and lack of action on Attorney General Tom Corbette's part and lack of stepping in on the case.

I want to know how one of the Pennsylvania's District Attorney's, DA Ray Gricar, can disappear and the Attorney General does nothing.

It is up to the newsmen and women who are asking questions of the running mates to ask these question of the two men. Without the questions we get no answers voluntarily. The pressure needs put on by the newsteams of PA.

Please make this part of your stories on the upcoming election and before they are elected. There are thousands of us out here who want to here and see these questions answered as part of their campaign. Without those answers we don't know what will happen to the case or who to elect in the future elections.

God Bless Ray Gricar and there are some of us who have not given up.

Lost and forgotten?? I pray not.

Thank you.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by sherrijean981


FACT: No newspapers or newsmen/women have brought the question up of Centre Counties missing District Attorney Ray Gricar, to either of the men, AG Tom Corbette and John Morganelli, who is running against him.

Why not? [/*]

I'm not too sure that this is the case or will be the case. I will agree that the press should ask JM.

[Cloudbuster]

Nice letter SJ!!! I think they should ask both men.:rose:

[J. J. in Phila]

The Barns foundation case had no relation to the AG's office and was being in the process of being settled in 2004; the initial decision being handed down prior to TC term begining. The whole issue in the suit was if the foundation could be moved to a better site, in Philadelphia. Again, it is a civil matter, not a criminal one; I'm not even sure that any AG could claim jurisdiction.

I know, slightly, several of the attorneys involved.

Now, there is a good question, raised by Grammybear about what happened in the investigation. The first weekend, great, even most of the first week, fine. After that, there were problems; the follow ups were not done.

[Cloudbuster]

Well said logic well said.:)

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks



Mr. Barnes stated exactly what his desires were before he passed away. Your 'better' location obviously suits you, not Mr. Barnes.


Mr. Barnes, who died in 1951, is in no position to communicate that in 2002-4. Oh, unless, you're channeling him as well.


Perhaps you need to tell Judge Ott that the AG's office has nothing to do with it. He apparently has been confused for some time.


Once the ruling was made (and, IIRC, the appeal turned down), there is nothing for the AG (or anyone else to do). You really don't seem to understand that, a governor, an AG, or a DA cannot order a judge what to do.


AND once again, the voice of the people, simply doesn't matter to the 'richest poor' of them all, those who can make a difference, and instead turn away from the honor of doing so.


They have, by electing Judge Ott, and electing the judges who declined the appeal. Such cases, where a provision of a will is overturned, is reasonably common, as were the Girard School case in Philadelphia, and the Fisk University case.


"While the case eventually ended because a judge ruled that local residents, through the advocacy group Friends of the Barnes, did not have legal standing, Morganelli insisted that Corbett could have provided that standing."
JMO [/*]

After the initial suit was brought, and lost, the "Friends of the Barnes," filed suit. The judge, apparently based on a 2005 decision of the State Supreme Court, ruled that they didn't have standing. Again, this has nothing to do with AG's office. And, as pointed out, TC was not the AG when the case was originally filed nor when it was decided.

Once more, we see LW's multiple conspiracy theories at work, with the same laughable results.

[J. J. in Phila]

I see it more clearly. A holistic "Dirk Gently" type will be lost from the Gricar case. :(

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks
It's quite clear.........After the death of Barnes confidante and successor, Violette de Mazia, in 1989, the last in line who could control Mr. Barnes wishes, the fox-in-waiting was released. All that was necessary was to create financial disaster. With the last Barnes successor out of the way, the 'coast was finally clear' to open the Barnes hen house door.



First, it is "quite clear," that there was no involvement between Ray Gricar and the Barnes Foundation, which is more than 200 miles from Bellefonte, by car.

Second, it is "quite clear" that when the financial problems hit, in the late 1990's, Tom Corbett was not Attorney General.

Third, it is "quite clear" that when the Barnes Foundation Board ask for permission, from the court, to modify the provisions of Barnes' will, in 2002, Corbett was not Attorney General, and had no connection to the Barnes Foundation.

Fourth, it is "quite clear" that when the decision was handed down by Judge Ott, in 2004, Corbett was not Attorney General, and had no connection to the Barnes Foundation.

Even tying Corbett to the Barnes Foundation is utter garbage, much less anything related to the Gricar disappearance.

I certainly believe Corbett can do a lot more in relation to the Gricar disappearance, but LW's latest conspiracy theory isn't even close.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks

Morganelli called it exactly like it is......

"The failure of Attorney General Corbett to protect Dr. Barnes, and thereby the public interest, undermines the likelihood that generous individuals will do good things with confidence that their wishes will be respected," Morganelli said.



If Morganelli thinks that after the case was settled by the courts, the AG should do something, the perhaps he shouldn't be AG. The same article notes, "Corbett was not Attorney General when the legal dispute ignited in 2004." The case actually started in 2002 or before.

Here, Morganelli is attempting to use a legal decision, unrelated to Corbett, for political purposes. Shame on him.

Corbett doesn't object to it, but even if he did, the AG cannot reverse a judge.

I'm becoming very troubled about John Morganelli. His big issue is illegal immigration, but that is not the most pressing problem facing PA. He publicly said more than thirty days ago that he'd speak out about the Gricar case, but he has yet to; of course, he's never said what he'd say about it. I seriously doubt if PB will ever be able to report it.

Now he's trying to make waves about a case that happened before Corbett was in office, but he's not saying what he'd do, legally. As one put it:

"'I just want to know why now and not during the court case,' Lower Merion resident Joan Hindin told PolitickerPa.com. 'It's a little late.'"

http://www.politickerpa.com/danh/1208/morganelli-corbett-failed-represent-public-interest-barnes-dispute

The same thing can be said regarding Morganelli's semi appearance in the Gricar case.

[Serendipitous1]

Is Pete Bosak leaving the Centre Daily Times at the end of the month and, if so, why so?

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
Is Pete Bosak leaving the Centre Daily Times at the end of the month and, if so, why so? [/*]

You'll have to ask him.

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila
You'll have to ask him. Why? That's what we have The Amazing Criswell here for (when he's not over at WS):
Originally posted by J. J. in Phila
I see something ... someone departing... an allied force ... about a fortnight ... it's hazy. A holistic "Dirk Gently" type will be lost from the Gricar case. [Morganelli] publicly said more than thirty days ago that he'd speak out about the Gricar case, but he has yet to...I seriously doubt if PB will ever be able to report it. I was just getting settled in, reading PB's followup story about the exploits of the Mifflin streaker, Ms. Burke, and her attorney (two fine looking women, BTW)...
http://www.centredaily.com/news/local/story/780153.html
http://community.centredaily.com/?q=node/5618
...when I saw that the Crime & Courts guy got a new assignment yesterday...covering that other hotbed of iniquity -- Penn State's summer commencement. [WTH, are they short-staffed over there?]
http://www.centredaily.com/news/local/story/780904.html

Then you continued your sequel to "The day that the dawn comes from the west". Only this time, your crypto-posts seemed a tad less...well, crypto. So give us the scoop Criswell. Don't make us come to Philly and beat the fortnight out of you, lol.

[J. J. in Phila]

Some people do have to work weekends.

As for my cryptic posts, the answer is 42, but perhaps you don't understand the question. ;) I'm using tarot card, but I don't have a full deck.

As I have pointed out, I was originally from west/central PA, but moved to Philadelphia. Employment was the reason.

[Serendipitous1]

OK, I will leave you off the hook. Besides...after waiting through 174 of them...what's another sennight or two?

[Cloudbuster]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
OK, I will leave you off the hook. Besides...after waiting through 174 of them...what's another sennight or two? [/*]

Grisswell is most likely refering something about me lol. AS for my psychic visions I think McClathcy land might be having some head in a different direction in life and only JJ might understand that.:)

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
Why? That's what we have The Amazing Criswell here for (when he's not over at WS):
I was just getting settled in, reading PB's followup story about the exploits of the Mifflin streaker, Ms. Burke, and her attorney (two fine looking women, BTW)...
http://www.centredaily.com/news/local/story/780153.html
http://community.centredaily.com/?q=node/5618
...when I saw that the Crime & Courts guy got a new assignment yesterday...covering that other hotbed of iniquity -- Penn State's summer commencement. [WTH, are they short-staffed over there?]
http://www.centredaily.com/news/local/story/780904.html

Then you continued your sequel to "The day that the dawn comes from the west". Only this time, your crypto-posts seemed a tad less...well, crypto. So give us the scoop Criswell. Don't make us come to Philly and beat the fortnight out of you, lol. [/*]



Sounds like MM might be having to fight to keep his job, if the rumors around the court house are true. Ms Parks Miller running against MM might just be his down fall. With her as DA you know the Ray Gricar case will go somewhere, and not under any rock.!!

http://community.centredaily.com/?q=blog/2


Quote:
"Attorney Stacy Parks Miller is undefeated when it comes to defending Mifflin Streakers. She's pretty darn impressive in just about every other kind of criminal case as well.

It's no wonder her name keeps coming up around the courthouse as a possible candidate to challenge Michael Madeira to become the next Centre County District Attorney."
Quote

[J. J. in Phila]

She certainly has a good record, and she'd probably make a fine DA. I have not heard her comment on the RFG case however.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
Is Pete Bosak leaving the Centre Daily Times at the end of the month and, if so, why so? [/*]

Yes. New job.

http://community.centredaily.com/?q=node/5640

The Amazing Criswell just cleaned his crystal ball.

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila
She certainly has a good record, and she'd probably make a fine DA. I have not heard her comment on the RFG case however. Stacy Parks Miller has been more vocal than the vast majority of local attorneys in regard to this failed investigation. One need only fill in between the lines...her lines. And she would be a fine DA. But she has already done the "prosecutor thing", and might be more inclined, if inclined at all, to set her sights on a judgeship, or higher.

The percentages would say there is no point in pursuing a cause with so many apparent dead-end roads. And it has been interesting to watch people move on, with regrets that they must leave though this mystery remains unsolved...LG, DD, KA, DZ, TG, PF, and now PB.

I understand the myriad of reasons which exist for moving on...the need some feel to move on. For myself though, maybe it is those quotes by Thoreau, which have rattled around my brain for decades, that keep me involved...if only at a visceral level...that most men are slaves to their work and enslaved to those for whom they work.

"I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived. I did not wish to live what was not life, living is so dear; nor did I wish to practice resignation..." "The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. What is called resignation is confirmed desperation...."

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1


The percentages would say there is no point in pursuing a cause with so many apparent dead-end roads. And it has been interesting to watch people move on, with regrets that they must leave though this mystery remains unsolved...LG, DD, KA, DZ, TG, PF, and now PB.


I don't expect anyone to automatically drop there lives and pursue the mystery of RFG as a quest.

I actually have seen too many "dead end roads" in this case suddenly branching off in all directions. Some are no doubt dead ends, but some seem to parallel to I-81.

There are just too many things unchecked.

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila <Snip>
I don't expect anyone to automatically drop there [sic] lives and pursue the mystery of RFG as a quest. That is where we differ. And I am not necessarily talking about PB or the few of us who (more or less) remain committed to "intelligent" speculation here. There are others who possibly could have made an actual difference...but chose not to. I say, their worth is reflected by their own "resignation"...and that they will never be able to rise above it.

That is the chief reason why I believe Corbett's dream is dead...and Madeira's star is falling. It has nothing to do with Ray Gricar...and it has everything to do with Ray Gricar.

I am not personally connected. So it has never mattered as much to me what actually happened to Ray Gricar, as it has that whatever happened to him becomes known. And I still have hope that there are some people out there, of like mind.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
That is where we differ. And I am not necessarily talking about PB or the few of us who (more or less) remain committed to "intelligent" speculation here. There are others who possibly could have made an actual difference...but chose not to. I say, their worth is reflected by their own "resignation"...and that they will never be able to rise above it.


Well, I don't blame DD for following through with retirement, which, IIRC was planned prior to 4/15/05, for DZ from finding another job, EN, for accepting a promotion, PB, who has moved on to greener, or at least southern, pastures, TG for continuing to work, LG for finding love and getting married (best of luck, BTW), PEF for not quitting her job (and ending up living under a bridge) so she can look for RFG. Should JKA have come out earlier with some of her information? Possibly, but I doubt that made that Wiley connection prior to me mentioning it. Should she chuck everything and start searching the Susquehanna? No.




I am not personally connected. So it has never mattered as much to me what actually happened to Ray Gricar, as it has that whatever happened to him becomes known. And I still have hope that there are some people out there, of like mind. [/*]

I'm not tied personally to RFG, family, friends, et c. The sole reason that I'm interested is because of the possibility of murder. If Mr. Gricar's actions were due solely to the actions of Mr. Gricar, I'm out of here.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila
She certainly has a good record, and she'd probably make a fine DA. I have not heard her comment on the RFG case however. [/*]

She was in the court room when the friends of DA MM came to put DA Buehner down. Wasn't she throwing questions at the panel of men?

We also don't know if she has made comments since most of the posters on the forum are unknown.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by sherrijean981


She was in the court room when the friends of DA MM came to put DA Buehner down. Wasn't she throwing questions at the panel of men?

We also don't know if she has made comments since most of the posters on the forum are unknown. [/*]

That's great! :)

She's obviously a capable attorney.

[J. J. in Phila]

I just checked, not bad at all.


http://www.lawyers.com/Pennsylvania/State-College/Miller,-Kistler,-Campbell,-Miller,-Williams-and-Benson,-Inc.-1565929-f.html

[day2day]

Just thought I would "drop by" and check in on the Gricar case (while checkin on a few other things here)...

WOW...PB is actually leaving Happy Valley??~ Buh-bye petie..:D
It also tickles the "sh$$" out of me that he is being replaced by a WOMAN!!!
Maybe she won't be baffled with all of the bs the men (and a woman or two) in Centre County seem to dish out..

As for PF living under a bridge if she quit her job..that is so far from the freakin truth! (i think i threw up in my mouth a little when i read that)

It kills me that the poor poor PF BS goes on still today..~lets NEVER forget that Mr. Gricar paid off her home...bought her a brand new car. So ya see she would NOT have had to live under a bridge..she could have slept in her brand new car~

take care my friends...:seeya:

[gstickley]

Originally posted by day2day
Just thought I would "drop by" and check in on the Gricar case (while checkin on a few other things here)...

WOW...PB is actually leaving Happy Valley??~ Buh-bye petie..:D
It also tickles the "sh$$" out of me that he is being replaced by a WOMAN!!!
Maybe she won't be baffled with all of the bs the men (and a woman or two) in Centre County seem to dish out..

As for PF living under a bridge if she quit her job..that is so far from the freakin truth! (i think i threw up in my mouth a little when i read that)

It kills me that the poor poor PF BS goes on still today..~lets NEVER forget that Mr. Gricar paid off her home...bought her a brand new car. So ya see she would NOT have had to live under a bridge..she could have slept in her brand new car~

take care my friends...:seeya: [/*]

Please stay, Day. I miss you.

Also feel the same way you do about all of the above.

Signed: Fool #2

[day2day]

Originally posted by gstickley


Please stay, Day. I miss you.

Also feel the same way you do about all of the above.

Signed: Fool #2 [/*]


Hey gs...how the heck have you been?~ I sure have missed you also!!
Hope everything is going great with you!!! Summer is nearly over and here we are ..still not knowing the truth. Blows my mind.
:seeya:

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by day2day
Just thought I would "drop by" and check in on the Gricar case (while checkin on a few other things here)...

WOW...PB is actually leaving Happy Valley??~ Buh-bye petie..:D
It also tickles the "sh$$" out of me that he is being replaced by a WOMAN!!!
Maybe she won't be baffled with all of the bs the men (and a woman or two) in Centre County seem to dish out..

As for PF living under a bridge if she quit her job..that is so far from the freakin truth! (i think i threw up in my mouth a little when i read that)

It kills me that the poor poor PF BS goes on still today..~lets NEVER forget that Mr. Gricar paid off her home...bought her a brand new car. So ya see she would NOT have had to live under a bridge..she could have slept in her brand new car~

take care my friends...:seeya: [/*]

Let's also remember that when RFG disappeared, PEF lost a great deal of her household income. It would be different if she inherited, but nobody has.

Why should it surprise you; PB replaced a woman Erin Neissy (if I have the spelling correct).

[day2day]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila


Let's also remember that when RFG disappeared, PEF lost a great deal of her household income. It would be different if she inherited, but nobody has.

Why should it surprise you; PB replaced a woman Erin Neissy (if I have the spelling correct). [/*]

Hey there J. J....
Oh believe me i realize she lost money when Mr. Gricar vanished. I just really believe that she could survive without this particular job.

Not surprised at all..just happy that we finally get a new set of eyes..and to beat it all....they are a girls~~ ( i swear i am loving this)..:seeya:

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by day2day


Hey there J. J....
Oh believe me i realize she lost money when Mr. Gricar vanished. I just really believe that she could survive without this particular job.


I don't blkame her for staying, especially since we're referrin to the DA as "one term Mike," and another candidate, who has repeatedly humiliated the DA's office in court, might be in charge.


Not surprised at all..just happy that we finally get a new set of eyes..and to beat it all....they are a girls~~ ( i swear i am loving this)..:seeya: [/*]

Ah, the person who said that PEF was checked out throughly, was EN, a woman. You want to try again? :rolleyes:

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by day2day <Snip>
WOW...PB is actually leaving Happy Valley??~ Buh-bye petie..:D
It also tickles the "sh$$" out of me that he is being replaced by a WOMAN!!! Maybe she won't be baffled with all of the bs the men (and a woman or two) in Centre County seem to dish out.. I think that sex is not likely a determining factor in that regard, day...but I wish SG every success. I am curious though, whether she will take up the cause, anywhere near the point PB is at...or at all.

She is very young...just starting out. When RG went missing, SG was just finishing up high school in Florida. OTOH, she went to Penn State that June and wrote some of the Gricar articles for the Collegian, has done a fair amount of "cops and courts" reporting already, and wrote a Gricar article just last month for AP Philadelphia. So she is familiar with the genre and the Gricar case.

And she got a rave review from the CDT editor...even a quip from, of all people, SS. http://blogs.centredaily.com/happy_valley/2008/05/unlikely-gradua.html
So I suppose we should all expect big things from her. And I do.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks


EN's repeating what she was told by someone else, someone close to the investigation, hardly qualifies her for being the 'one' who said PF was checked out thoroughly, other than in print.
Someone else is the 'ONE' who said PF had been 'checked out thoroughly. EN was merely the 'messenger', not the 'ONE'.
In NO way does that statement alone prove the 'checking out was thorough'. That is one of the reasons there is a need for a full investigation.
JMO [/*]

So was PB, for that matter, though I know that in his case, he's done a lot of digging. A lot of it has been unreported, because it was a dead end.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by logicworks


That's the first time I've noticed the capital letters, DA MM, together....Could be a 'clue'.....lol. [/*]

Funny you should say that. Check your email. I sent a "forward" that has photo's of a local dam. Drained!

[Serendipitous1]

When will the PDAA "suits" learn? Loyalty to Attorney General Tom Corbett is tantamount, in and by itself, to insurrection. Pennsylvania and Centre Couny could not have more ineffectual people in office in regard to Ray Gricar's disappearance.

A career prosecutor suddenly and inexplicably went missing. And the powers that be are just as suddenly impotent. I say, get rid of the powers that be...Tom Corbett (this November) and Mike Madeira (next). Together, they have not amounted to a pinch of sh....together, they have been as useless as twin teats on a bull.

[Serendipitous1]

I understand that Sarah Louise (Heath) Palin is the topic of the day. And I am just as psyched by her entry into the political mainstream. But I would be remiss in not lodging my anti-Republican sentiment when it comes to the pathetic losers we have in this (my own) state.

[Serendipitous1]

Palin hunts moose in Alaska. I respect her for that. If she wants to hunt the fleet-footed PA deer or elusive black bear, I can arrange it.

But do you know why buffalo nearly became extinct? They herd together and are not easily stampeded. One falls, and the others look around. A word to the wise DAs and ADAs...find some new leaders. Do not get caught standing around...waiting for the "next time".

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by logicworks
Did you happen to see this in the Daily Item?
http://www.dailyitem.com/0100_news/local_story_243004528.html
Although it says Sunbury woman, it appears to be a Lewisburg address. When I pulled up the address on Mapquest, it is just off River Road, the one on the other side of the bridge from where RG's car was found, and off the lower River Road.

I was mildly surprised considering I hadn't read anything about this before and many other missing person, unsolved murders have been brought up on board.
JMO I did see that...but Point Township appears to be south of Lewisburg and in Northumberland County. Still, of particular notice was that the person of interest was in LE. This should not, IMO, be discounted in RG's disappearance.

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by logicworks
Just bringing this article over because it is interesting that in a matter of days, there were two reports of bones being found/seen, albeit in the one case, proven to be animal bones, and in this one, ??? I haven't noticed any update on this sighting.

http://www.dailyitem.com/0100_news/local_story_231161311.html

JMO There was also a recent report (and I cannot seem to find it now) that the Union County coroner was looking to identify a 61-year-old man who died at Evangelical Community Hospital. I will assume, for the moment, that DA Johnson is not quite that incompetent.

[Cloudbuster]

Thanks Logic for the article update. I think when all is said and done there will be bones to be found in high places.

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by logicworks <Snip>
I agree, LE certainly should not be discounted in RG's disappearance. We need a FULL investigation, and it won't happen as long as the two parties sitting on it now, the AG's office and the local office, refuse to move on the case. Our only hope now is for a change happening at the polls in November; TC voted out of AG office. Re-elect Corbett, and we are guaranteed to have the same useless nonsense. Get Morganelli installed as Attorney General and maybe things change, with or without Madeira's obstinance. And yet, all of this may come too late. But that is on Corbett and Madeira. They could have made a difference...but chose (agreed) not to. Go figure!

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by logicworks
In the event of a Morganelli win, what would the next step be that would move the case out of MM's hands and into a full investigation? Just curious as to how deeply entrenched the law is that has allowed MM to sit on this case for his good buddy, TC, and do nothing.
JMO As far as I know, TC has hid behind the Attorney General law, whereby he is not required to act in the people's interest unless Madeira requests it. But I have yet to see where the AG could not institute an investigation on his own, especially where the potential certainly exists (as in this case) the DA's office has insufficient resources and/or a conflict of interest.

There is no question whatsover that a concerned AG would have made a difference in this case. It is the difference between the BPD and the PSP leading the investigation...calling the shots. That has been what is lacking. That is why Corbett and Madeira should both be held accountable.

Get rid of the "dead wood" and maybe there will yet be an actual investigation...if it is not too late.

[Cloudbuster]

something to look at a reference for anyone interested in the landfill timeline (waste management)
RRLLC withdraws its request for the zoning change in Snow Shoe Township.

WJAC-TV News discovers $8.5 million dollars in the state budget for RRLLC to build and repair 17 miles of rail in Centre and Clearfield counties to service their dump. This line item, which can stay in the budget for six years waiting for approval, was included at the request of Senator Stout of Washington County. Senator Stout did not consult with local legislators about this item and has no connection with central Pennsylvania so why is he proposing $8.5 million dollars for RRLLC? RRLLC stated from the beginning their project would be a privately funded venture. Both Representative Mike Hanna and Representative Bud George express their objection to this budget item to Governor Rendell. NOTE: As of April 2005 PPC has faxed over 2,000 signatures to the Governor opposing this budget item. Let the Governor know you oppose state money funding RRLLC's dump.

Both Herb Flosdorf, Vice President of RRLLC, and Ed Abel, President of RRLLC, refuse to name other partners in their venture, but expect it to cost hundreds of millions of dollars according to a Lancaster New Era article (June 9, 2004). ????They portray the area as a brownfield due to some former mining on the site. However, Centre County Land Office records indicate over 5,200 acres of the 5,800 acre parcel are wooded. USGS maps indicate there are also 17.8 miles of perennial streams on the site as well.
http://www.stoplandfill.com/timeline.htm

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks


I just pulled up Lithia Springs, but still couldn't find any such address other than listed as Lewisburg. Must be a lane too small to be on the map.

Lithia Springs is off Route 11 northeast of Northumberland. Oak Park is the turnoff.

I believe it was more than 50 days ago when Morganelli said that he'd be coming to Centre County and speaking about the Gricar case. Perhaps someone should mail him directions to Bellefonte?

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by logicworks


Here is another interesting read if you want to know what the citizen's voice means to the elected officials.......as in, 'we've heard enough, let's vote yes to the dump'.

I would LOVE to see the reactions if the dump was going to be in their own back yards. I personally do not see how anyone with a conscience could agree to sell PA out again and again and again. We are #1 in more waste hauled into the state than any other state and they want to haul more in yet.

Flosdorf was the rep for RRLLC, but I also see he was on the PA DEP Advisory Committee.

http://www.ccmpo.net/Minutes/Coordinating/2006/3-28-06Coord.pdf


Flosdorf was the rep for RRLLC in the RUSH for Rush Twp. dump, but I also see he was on the PA DEP Advisory Committee. He is now GM of Lancaster Biofuels, although the following article from more concerned citizens speaking up regarding the new ethanol plant; same show, different day. Who cares what the citizen's want or that big money is being spent on what doesn't work, and what is being created does NOT solve any problem, but instead creates bigger ones?
(The link doesn't show the photos, not certain why, but scroll down for info. Also not certain why the 'consultant' status is listed, when the news states General Manager.)

http://www.fightethanol.com/

JMO [/*]

I don't remember what company it is, but recently saw a commercial on TV that there is a company using the ethanol from a land fill to run that plant. I will research that one!

[Cloudbuster]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila


Lithia Springs is off Route 11 northeast of Northumberland. Oak Park is the turnoff.

I believe it was more than 50 days ago when Morganelli said that he'd be coming to Centre County and speaking about the Gricar case. Perhaps someone should mail him directions to Bellefonte? [/*]

JJ for once I agree with you where is Morganelli? :cuss:

[Cloudbuster]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
Re-elect Corbett, and we are guaranteed to have the same useless nonsense. Get Morganelli installed as Attorney General and maybe things change, with or without Madeira's obstinance. And yet, all of this may come too late. But that is on Corbett and Madeira. They could have made a difference...but chose (agreed) not to. Go figure! [/*]

If rumor has it right StacyParks is spoken in the CH as a possible canaidate against Maderia.
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“You can't spin this. You've got to have a real solution, ... This is not a war of words, this is a war.” ......John P Murtha

[Cinderella]

Well who knows what will happen with the election. Firefly said that someone has to tie up the loose ends. Apparantely someone will get offed concerning Ray Gricar, but who. Will be watching. Firefly stated that there is fighting going on all ready and whoever is involved in Ray's demise is getting antsy. I will have to stay informed.

Hey Cloudbuster, I just noticed. Could S. Parks be your Sparks. OMG.:shrug:

[Cinderella]

Sorry that I posted to the wrong board. I will copy it over to the other board. Sorry again.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster


If rumor has it right StacyParks is spoken in the CH as a possible canaidate against Maderia.



Please don't quote Murtha; my feelings about him are about the same as yours.

Parks was mentioned in PB's blog, I believe in that regard, a few months ago.

JM, so far as I've seen is a dead issue. Even if he'd come out now, it will be largely swallowed up by the election. The Gricar issue will not swing the election, even if JM speaks out.

TC (along with MM and Johnson) could have done more, IMO.

I'll revise the odds downward on suicide in a few weeks, unless something new develops.

[Cinderella]

Clouldbuster, I have to agree with J. J. Get a new line or else. :punch: hammer

[Cloudbuster]

Originally posted by Cinderella
Clouldbuster, I have to agree with J. J. Get a new line or else. :punch: hammer [/*]

LOL you know the old saying "if you can't beat em join em."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“What's unconscionable? It's up to the judge.” BP

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila <Snips>
JM, so far as I've seen is a dead issue. Even if he'd come out now, it will be largely swallowed up by the election. The Gricar issue will not swing the election, even if JM speaks out.

...I'll revise the odds downward on suicide in a few weeks, unless something new develops. Being able to swing the election on any issue depends on what Morganelli has to say...and, possibly, on when he says it. Be patient...JM has said that the campaign would not begin in earnest until after Labor Day, that he will address the Gricar issue, and that he expects to have one or more head-to-head debates with Corbett.

Speaking of Labor Day...I thought you were going to give us some revelations about now. Cannot say I blame you for postponing it though...as an epiphenominal reaction to PB's 'left but may not be gone', "kicking around an idea for a blog focusing on Gricar, where I can go a little more outside the lines" teaser.

[Cloudbuster]

One of the many problems with this case is the inability to discuss certain matters. Just look at my above recent quote I had to abbreviate it so I don't speak of her. Ouch to this and ouch to that. Lets not get so and so ticked ect...

Lets not discuss the people closest to Ray God forbid. Sorry folks cases don't follow that lead or they would never get solved. We know nothing about a good friend of Ray's Ed Walker. We can't discuss him and his silence cause it makes whom mad....
Ray's girlfriend is way OFF limits don't speak of it....
Reminds me of see no evil, hear no evil movie lol.........

Let us not speak of the possibility that Ray just might have disappeared else where and not Lewisburg. Just because HIS car is left behind in Lewisburg does not mean he stayed in Lewisburg ...crap he didn't have his car so how could you just assume Lewisburg is where he disappeared from? He obviously went somewhere with someone, otherwise he would have had his car.

Then you had 2 polygraphs when one of those family members lives way far away but yet you had other family within closer range...... (and tha's not to tick anyone off, but it's true).

Oh and all those moves politically.....running for congress....another in the house of representitives......a new sherriff job......a new warden..... a new DA ect.....

while Im on the subject I recently posted a time management on RRLLC , waste management stuff and this morning at 8:23 am I got a call which the caller ID said UNKNOWN NAME. Unknown Number and guess what it played none other than a waste management garbage truck noise on it and yes I know what they sound like to a tee cause I live right next to disposal pickup dock. They pick up nightly so I was able to understand that background noise beyond a shadow of a doubt. Coindence.......Hmmmm maybe. But why the truck noise and no message? Also why that early.

This song goes with this case:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DONbY9wd6vU

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1

Speaking of Labor Day...I thought you were going to give us some revelations about now. Cannot say I blame you for postponing it though...as an epiphenominal reaction to PB's 'left but may not be gone', "kicking around an idea for a blog focusing on Gricar, where I can go a little more outside the lines" teaser. [/*]

Actually, I have.

It was in response to one of CB's posts.

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila
PEF's holds out hope that RFG is out there, according to the Daily Item comment. TG has not ruled out a voluntary departure.

A number of the people associated with RFG thought, and think, it is a possibility. He did have an interest in several cases where people left voluntarily.

It is "in character" for RFG to have left voluntarily, to the extent that those know him consider it a possibility. It's not based on wishful thinking, but on comments he made, some of which were reported.

That certainly doesn't prove he did walk away, but it is one of the reasons it's being considered. It's not enough for me to say he walked away. Even looking at the stuff that hasn't been reported, I would not be moving the odds tremendously in favor of walkaway. [/*]

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster
One of the many problems with this case is the inability to discuss certain matters. Just look at my above recent quote I had to abbreviate it so I don't speak of her. Ouch to this and ouch to that. Lets not get so and so ticked ect...



I thing there are some legitimate questions of privacy. I say EG to refer to someone because her name, while reported has not been widely so. People who have not identified publicly, I choose not to.


We know nothing about a good friend of Ray's Ed Walker. We can't discuss him and his silence cause it makes whom mad....


Who claimed this? EW has been identified as a close friend of RFG's.


Ray's girlfriend is way OFF limits don't speak of it....
Reminds me of see no evil, hear no evil movie lol.........


No, but the constructing of far fetched, and in some cases literally impossible scenarios without evidence should be. Also, just focusing on the the possibility of a crime and just one person, who has an alibi, is a waste of time.


Let us not speak of the possibility that Ray just might have disappeared else where and not Lewisburg. Just because HIS car is left behind in Lewisburg does not mean he stayed in Lewisburg ...crap he didn't have his car so how could you just assume Lewisburg is where he disappeared from? He obviously went somewhere with someone, otherwise he would have had his car.


The problem the now 8 or more people who saw him there after noon on 4/15/05, including the McKnight witness, who saw him driving the Mini.


Then you had 2 polygraphs when one of those family members lives way far away but yet you had other family within closer range...... (and tha's not to tick anyone off, but it's true).



One seems to have been for contact, not direct involvement.


Oh and all those moves politically.....running for congress....another in the house of representitives......a new sherriff job......a new warden..... a new DA ect.....


What "moves," except for RFG's retirement, announce the year before?

[Serendipitous1]

Historically (and based on more recent developments), RG's public, outspoken friends/relatives appear to be limited to Ted McKnight, Bob Buehner, Tony Gricar and Stacy Parks Miller. I note (without having to post their names) the many who have been conspicuous by their absence. Go figure!

I would never give up trying to find my dad, my uncle, my friend. And I would be damned if I would hold back pertinent information (including scathing criticism) as if there was some greater good in my silence.

[Cloudbuster]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
Historically (and based on more recent developments), RG's public, outspoken friends/relatives appear to be limited to Ted McKnight, Bob Buehner, Tony Gricar and Stacy Parks Miller. I note (without having to post their names) the many who have been conspicuous by their absence. Go figure!

I would never give up trying to find my dad, my uncle, my friend. And I would be damned if I would hold back pertinent information (including scathing criticism) as if there was some greater good in my silence. [/*]

I agree S1 what the hay is really going on? It leaves you wondering what is up with the silence? Somebody knows something.

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster
I agree S1 what the hay is really going on? It leaves you wondering what is up with the silence? Somebody knows something. Here's what really gripes my ***...and I don't really care if I get banned for it. LG left after two weeks and basically hasn't been heard from since. I don't care what Tony Gricar or anyone else says...that just ain't right. I have tried schmoozing and cajoling...and berating. It just hasn't mattered. And I am at the end...of it mattering to me.

[Cloudbuster]

I do understand S1 how you feel. I feel the same. This is LG's dad and she says nothing to even help those of us that want to help her. Maybe TG feels the same and decided he can't handle the tool this has taken in his life no more. Maybe it bugs him too about her silence? A while back he did say something on here about he can't believe what someone close to him did. I often thought it was related to this case. He took a strange IMO view in the paper when Bob * spoke up. Something feels really wrong here.:rose:
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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
– Margaret Mead

[Tokuen]

What does In Session have in common with the Centre Daily Times? – no sustained interest in why Ray Gricar suddenly seemed to vanish.

Gone from online archives is nearly every CDT article of import, as well as the extensive list of Questions & Answers. And other than the “links” (many of which no longer work), gone is nearly every post here more than a year old. The wealth of earlier information and sentiments (from billywahoo, day2day, logicworks, saunterer, parlorelephant, jjinphila, undertheradar, lustorumanimae, serendipitous1, tonygricar and many others) are all gone. They are gone, just as assuredly as is Ray Gricar.

You have all done well, even if some have been misguided. But you few who remain here should understand that you are being asked to leave also. Doesn’t that make you the least bit inquisitive, or angry?

[sherrijean981]

Wow, not so sure about this new forum. I am getting new "want to be friends" and strange things going on. CB and I are checking out the User CP and some of the profiles of names coming up on sites. Hope no one takes offense at our being on their profiles.

Check out the User CP because you can stay invisible and you can get messages privately, just change specifications.

I can't believe others can read some of these messages! And know where I have been! Big Brother is here! Just be careful what you say about me. :no: CB was able to see JJ's message to me.

[sherrijean981]

What does In Session have in common with the Centre Daily Times? – no sustained interest in why Ray Gricar suddenly seemed to vanish.

Gone from online archives is nearly every CDT article of import, as well as the extensive list of Questions & Answers. And other than the “links” (many of which no longer work), gone is nearly every post here more than a year old. The wealth of earlier information and sentiments (from billywahoo, day2day, logicworks, saunterer, parlorelephant, jjinphila, undertheradar, lustorumanimae, serendipitous1, tonygricar and many others) are all gone. They are gone, just as assuredly as is Ray Gricar.

You have all done well, even if some have been misguided. But you few who remain here should understand that you are being asked to leave also. Doesn’t that make you the least bit inquisitive, or angry?

I don't get that we are being "asked to leave". I get that we are going to be closely watched to what we say. I am not leaving! :flamemad:

[J. J. in Phila]

I can't believe others can read some of these messages! And know where I have been! Big Brother is here! Just be careful what you say about me. :no: CB was able to see JJ's message to me.

Just o be clear. Your message to me, and my response, were not private messages, but posted on my "user page." CB should be able to see your initial message to me as well.

[Cloudbuster]

Just o be clear. Your message to me, and my response, were not private messages, but posted on my "user page." CB should be able to see your initial message to me as well.

It wasn't that I wanted to see what was said, but I figured some stopped posting due to something with the new board. So SJ and I was checking it out. :)

[J. J. in Phila]

What does In Session have in common with the Centre Daily Times? – no sustained interest in why Ray Gricar suddenly seemed to vanish.


I can uderstand some of this. In spite of a great effort to keep up interest, "Ray Gricar is still missing," isn't a headline; it isn't news.


Gone from online archives is nearly every CDT article of import, as well as the extensive list of Questions & Answers. And other than the “links” (many of which no longer work), gone is nearly every post here more than a year old. The wealth of earlier information and sentiments (from billywahoo, day2day, logicworks, saunterer, parlorelephant, jjinphila, undertheradar, lustorumanimae, serendipitous1, tonygricar and many others) are all gone. They are gone, just as assuredly as is Ray Gricar.


Some of those, Saunterer, lustoranimae, we lost for other reasons. The deletion seems to be InSession decision.

The bulk of the RFG articles are here: http://www.centredaily.com/138/

The rest of the removal is a McClatchy situation.


You have all done well, even if some have been misguided. But you few who remain here should understand that you are being asked to leave also. Doesn’t that make you the least bit inquisitive, or angry?

Judging from my off board experience, we are not being ask to leave. If would be fairly easy to ask me to leave, and under certain circumstances, I would. It could be done directly, and privately. What messages I have received have been so far, **continue.**

[sherrijean981]

Just o be clear. Your message to me, and my response, were not private messages, but posted on my "user page." CB should be able to see your initial message to me as well.


Actually I had no idea what type message I was sending you. I thought it was private until CB and I started checking things out. Then we went to the User CP and found how it was to work, I changed some things and found out I could pm you by just clicking your name on your post and selecting the link. Confusing but interesting, the things we were learning, what can be seen on our profile page, and what we didn't know. :shrug:

[sherrijean981]

But you few who remain here should understand that you are being asked to leave also. Doesn’t that make you the least bit inquisitive, or angry?


Who is asking us to leave?

Inquisitive more than angry if what you say is true. If true, my thought would be RG is alive and everyone knows it and it is soon coming out. Close??

[Cloudbuster]

SJ looking at the new thread that was put back up it seems like a message forth coming. If you read the first post from 2007 it's a thank you and then some. :confused:

[sherrijean981]

SJ looking at the new thread that was put back up it seems like a message forth coming. If you read the first post from 2007 it's a thank you and then some. :confused:


A threat to a tremendous cost to us all, in what we say we found/think in our researching? Is it a threat or just the personal cost of our hearts in not finding RG and dealing with the loss?

I don't think we would question it, if not for Tokeun's mysterious message earlier. Tokeun needs to come out and say what needs to be said and why, and not make it so dramatic and mysterious.

I am angry at the lack of speaking your mind without hiding behind words and inuendoes. What ever happened to coming out and telling what you know, what is bothering he/her and speaking the truth and explaining the comments being made.

I want the truth and not the bs being said.

[J. J. in Phila]

Who is asking us to leave?

Inquisitive more than angry if what you say is true. If true, my thought would be RG is alive and everyone knows it and it is soon coming out. Close??

That is one possibility. It would explain why there has been a seeming lack of effort in recent months.

[sherrijean981]

That is one possibility. It would explain why there has been a seeming lack of effort in recent months.

I don't want to come out and make a bunch of claims that RG is alive because I don't know that. No news in the CDT, from Rickard, a new crime reporter, or any of the family members and there is a feeling of waiting, like something is going to happen.

Why would Tokuen say they want us to leave if no one has said anything, unless Tokuen has inside information? Why has everyone stopped posting? Is there a lawsuit in the making for all of us, with Tokuens reference to TG's last post? :shrug:

[J. J. in Phila]

I don't want to come out and make a bunch of claims that RG is alive because I don't know that. No news in the CDT, from Rickard, a new crime reporter, or any of the family members and there is a feeling of waiting, like something is going to happen.

Why would Tokuen say they want us to leave if no one has said anything, unless Tokuen has inside information? Why has everyone stopped posting? Is there a lawsuit in the making for all of us, with Tokuens reference to TG's last post? :shrug:

I don't know it either, Some of the reported evidence does point to walkaway. Some of the unreported evidence, witness reports, points to it, though not strongly, IMO. More of it has come out.

I have not gotten a message to stop asking questions; it has been suggested that I continue. It obviously isn't because I have "inside information," because I don't have any. Any information I have is known to LE.

I do know that the messages I've received has been "keep posting." I don't hope to find the right answers, just ask the right questions.

[sherrijean981]

I don't know it either, Some of the reported evidence does point to walkaway. Some of the unreported evidence, witness reports, points to it, though not strongly, IMO. More of it has come out.

I have not gotten a message to stop asking questions; it has been suggested that I continue. It obviously isn't because I have "inside information," because I don't have any. Any information I have is known to LE.

I do know that the messages I've received has been "keep posting." I don't hope to find the right answers, just ask the right questions.

Good, then at least 3 of us will still be here. Just be careful searching some sites.

[Politigal]

What does In Session have in common with the Centre Daily Times? – no sustained interest in why Ray Gricar suddenly seemed to vanish.

Gone from online archives is nearly every CDT article of import, as well as the extensive list of Questions & Answers. And other than the “links” (many of which no longer work), gone is nearly every post here more than a year old. The wealth of earlier information and sentiments (from billywahoo, day2day, logicworks, saunterer, parlorelephant, jjinphila, undertheradar, lustorumanimae, serendipitous1, tonygricar and many others) are all gone. They are gone, just as assuredly as is Ray Gricar.

You have all done well, even if some have been misguided. But you few who remain here should understand that you are being asked to leave also. Doesn’t that make you the least bit inquisitive, or angry?

I feel slighted....:tongue:

I'm still here, tho' not posting as often....but still reading every day & checking all news sources for any smidgen of news on Ray Gricar. There have been times I actually wanted to travel to PA and investigate on my own...

This case has been one of the most frustrating I've ever read about, and the lack of interest *by authorities* takes the cake IMO. I can only imagine how your family is dealing with this nightmare.

But just so you know....I *still* don't think I was misguided with my opinions. I'm still going with What are the odds....

[sherrijean981]

I feel slighted....:tongue:

I'm still here, tho' not posting as often....but still reading every day & checking all news sources for any smidgen of news on Ray Gricar. There have been times I actually wanted to travel to PA and investigate on my own...

This case has been one of the most frustrating I've ever read about, and the lack of interest *by authorities* takes the cake IMO. I can only imagine how your family is dealing with this nightmare.

But just so you know....I *still* don't think I was misguided with my opinions. I'm still going with What are the odds....


P-gal makes 4! Glad you are still here. I know S1 said he/she would be watching. He/she makes 5.

Please come to PA! Would love to go investigating with a group from here! Talk about our theories and take a walk on the theory side of town.

Still researching things but not finding much. :read:

Pgal is you site still up and can you re-post for me? I just had my new hard drive restarted do to problems already. Missing a lot of things I had saved. Do you still have all the links that were posted on your site?

[gstickley]

Still here, FWIW . . .
Still feel the same as ever: no walkaway, no suicide.
Still waiting on Mr. Morganelli . . .
Still waiting on something/anything from LE, family, co-workers, so-called friends, media . . .

(Fool #2)

JMO

[sherrijean981]

Still here, FWIW . . .
Still feel the same as ever: no walkaway, no suicide.
Still waiting on Mr. Morganelli . . .
Still waiting on something/anything from LE, family, co-workers, so-called friends, media . . .

(Fool #2)

JMO

So glad to see you on yet!

[Politigal]

P-gal makes 4! Glad you are still here. I know S1 said he/she would be watching. He/she makes 5.

Please come to PA! Would love to go investigating with a group from here! Talk about our theories and take a walk on the theory side of town.

Still researching things but not finding much. :read:

Pgal is you site still up and can you re-post for me? I just had my new hard drive restarted do to problems already. Missing a lot of things I had saved. Do you still have all the links that were posted on your site?

Yep, the site is still up...I haven't checked for broken links lately though.

http://politigal.googlepages.com/

[J. J. in Phila]

Still here, FWIW . . .
Still feel the same as ever: no walkaway, no suicide.
Still waiting on Mr. Morganelli . . .
Still waiting on something/anything from LE, family, co-workers, so-called friends, media . . .

(Fool #2)

JMO

One of the problems is that is nothing yet new to report, though there are some unreported things. I'm optimistic that PB may return in blog form, though I have not heard anything.

Morganelli, even if he were come forward tomorrow, it would be too late and whatever message he had would be swallowed up in the political seas.

I kind of some idea of what friends and co-workers, at least, think. There have been some tidbits that have been published; the answer keeps on coming up walkaway. Same with the witnesses. Now, frankly, that isn't enough for me.

As for LE, we might hear about the laptop.

[Cloudbuster]

SJ maybe they want to close the board so we don't find out what PB has to say? Someone seems to want to close it maybe? My question of being inquisive is who and why but I think TC would have the most agenda to do that because of election forth coming. I don't know if that is it but Tokuen is trying to say something.

Tokuen spill your guts if you don't want Ray a dead issue. We need to know what we can do to help. Please step up to the plate if you will and tell us what needs to be done to help the situation. I think you know what needs to be done so help us to help Ray.:rose:

We lost TG it seems and need some help here.

[Serendipitous1]

No one gives a crap about this board, except the few of us who remain. But that is not the same as saying no one else cares what happened to Ray Gricar...or why the local investigation floundered...or why the state's top law enforcement officer turned his back on Ray Gricar...not by a long shot.

We are not literally being asked to leave...not yet. But there is some truth in what Tokuen said (which is surprising given the usual obtusiveness of his/her annual or semiannual cryptic contributions). It does seem that we are being herded toward the door. McClatchy torpedoed the online Ray Gricar article archives and the Q&A in the CDT. And CourtTV/TruTV/InSession thoroughly gutted the Ray Gricar threads here.

Those of us who have been here all along can easily continue...not so anyone new. My recent energy has been primarily directed at Morganelli and the race for Attorney General. Re-electing TC would be an insult...on so many levels. But with JM as AG, there is a chance to right this particular ship.

[ladyheartfixer]

still here...still reading daily...still archiving...count me in too:seeya:

[UndertheRadar]

Also still here when I can be, reading whatever little is here and waiting for that "stroke of luck" to give us something meaty to discuss in this case again.

[J. J. in Phila]

Something Meaty. A number of RFG's friends and coworkers believe he walked away. It is now on the record.

New Odds:

Walkaway: 46%

Murder: 44%

Suicide: 9%

Something Else: 1%

BTW: There is still more out there, and possibly some more from the laptop.

[Serendipitous1]

Something Meaty. A number of RFG's friends and coworkers believe he walked away. It is now on the record.
New Odds: Walkaway: 46%, Murder: 44%, Suicide: 9%, Something Else: 1%. BTW: There is still more out there, and possibly some more from the laptop.Ridiculous! There is nothing "out there" even remotely suggesting one theory over another. Where are the quotes from RG's friends and coworkers? Prove me wrong.

[J. J. in Phila]

Ridiculous! There is nothing "out there" even remotely suggesting one theory over another. Where are the quotes from RG's friends and coworkers? Prove me wrong.

We have it reported in the public record (which I've also heard privately). We did that quote from PEF. Sorry, but that is what his friends think.

I did indicate that when some of this information gets out, it would look more like walkaway.

[Serendipitous1]

We have it reported in the public record (which I've also heard privately). We did that quote from PEF. Sorry, but that is what his friends think. I did indicate that when some of this information gets out, it would look more like walkaway.What information? Whatever it is, to my knowledge, has not come from the BPD. Let's stick to facts here...instead of PBisms.

[Serendipitous1]

I have yet to hear even one of Ray Gricar's family, friends or close associates publicly state their belief that he is alive...not one. If there is information to the contrary, let's hear it. Better yet, wrap it in a message to Morganelli, the next AG of PA, with a copy to Buehner and McKnight.

[J. J. in Phila]

What information? Whatever it is, to my knowledge, has not come from the BPD. Let's stick to facts here...instead of PBisms.

No, since RFG's friends are not posting. Sorry, PB has been a good source, to the point that you wanted to hear from him. Your wish has been granted. And frankly, he probably knows the case better than anyone outside of LE. At best, I ask the right question, occasionally.

In looking at motivation, we have only the recollections and impressions of RFG's friends and coworkers. I've never had a problem with motivation, except to dismiss the **No he wouldn't,** comments.

I'm interested in means. If means are not there, RFG didn't walk away. If means are there, I stop posting.

[Serendipitous1]

The means were there...that I am certain of...if, in fact, that was his plan. But no one, including you and PB, has ever suggested a motive. What is possible is not nearly the same as what is probable. And straying from the other possibilities is definitely not smart.

[J. J. in Phila]

The means were there...that I am certain of...if, in fact, that was his plan. But no one, including you and PB, has ever suggested a motive. What is possible is not nearly the same as what is probable. And straying from the other possibilities is definitely not smart.

One has been suggested, you just don't like it, but there be another. Why don't you attempt to answer the questions:

1. Was it claimed that the reason RFG put the Mini in PEF name was to protect that asset in the event of a lawsuit?

2. In the ten years prior to RFG disappearing, was he ever the defendant in a lawsuit?

3. Are there any seemingly missing assets?

[sherrijean981]

No, since RFG's friends are not posting. Sorry, PB has been a good source, to the point that you wanted to hear from him. Your wish has been granted. And frankly, he probably knows the case better than anyone outside of LE. At best, I ask the right question, occasionally.

.


I agree with you on PB. He had access to the CCCH and BPD, Det. Rickard, PF and many of RG's co-workers. I believe he knows things that haven't even been told yet. Looking forward to hearing what he has to say!!

[J. J. in Phila]

Thanks S1 for the news article about Morganelli under links.
I look for a win in November for Morganelli and moving this case to a new level.

Like you, I have neither read nor heard anything that even remotely points toward the family or those close to him believing it is a walkaway and he is alive. A full investigation is our only hope for seeing this case solved, and it will NEVER happen while Corbett is in office.
JMO

Except what Sloane said, not to mention PEF "holding out hope." Neither points to murder or suicide.

At least some of those who were close to RFG on 4/15/05 think he left voluntarily. They knew him and think it was in character.

Now, there is more to come. One bit of information will knock the odds on murder down a bit, but not that much. I suspect there is more out there.

BTW, LW. Do you want to take a crack at my three questions.

[J. J. in Phila]

Another slight revelation.

http://community.centredaily.com/?q=node/5858



I also was told the so-called Lewisburg "mystery woman" was carefully checked out, which also wasn't the case.


More to come.

[Serendipitous1]

Another slight revelation.
http://community.centredaily.com/?q=node/5858
More to come.PB has been duped. There is a world of difference between offering state assistance to a local PD, and conducting a state-run investigation. The AG has great latitude...but not to just take over the investigation. I understand the pertinent law. But my perception is that the law was circumvented in this case...what someone close to the investigation once described to me as an "incestuous" relationship.

TC could have used his influence to gain control of the investigation. He could have ordered his own, parallel investigation. Or at the very least, he certainly could have been outspoken in this matter. But TC did none of these things. And that includes the sham PSP-CIA unit's review...which was not an investigation at all.

PB gets added to my growing list of foot-draggers...there is no evidence, this case is unsolvable, "and don't you forget it". And PB seems to think Corbett will be re-elected. I believe otherwise. In any event, Gricar...now a political football...is fair game for the debate(s), assuming Corbett has the guts to debate Morganelli.

[J. J. in Phila]

S1, the slight revelation is this:


I also was told the so-called Lewisburg "mystery woman" was carefully checked out, which also wasn't the case.


PB has been duped. There is a world of difference between offering state assistance to a local PD, and conducting a state-run investigation. The AG has great latitude...but not to just take over the investigation. I understand the pertinent law. But my perception is that the law was circumvented in this case...what someone close to the investigation once described to me as an "incestuous" relationship.


You will have to flesh that out, a lot more than have. The law I mean. The AG, unfortunately, is not the "super prosecutor" or "investigator of last resort."


TC could have used his influence to gain control of the investigation. He could have ordered his own, parallel investigation. Or at the very least, he certainly could have been outspoken in this matter. But TC did none of these things. And that includes the sham PSP-CIA unit's review...which was not an investigation at all.


Take over? Probably not. Parallel? Possibly. I suspect there was more to PSP-CIA review than meets the eye.


PB gets added to my growing list of foot-draggers...there is no evidence, this case is unsolvable, "and don't you forget it". And PB seems to think Corbett will be re-elected. I believe otherwise. In any event, Gricar...now a political football...is fair game for the debate(s), assuming Corbett has the guts to debate Morganelli.

He might debate Morganelli, but no one will watch them. Morganelli has a good proposal, but it doesn't really do anything in this case. It's still up to the locals to call in the unit.

[Serendipitous1]

S1, the slight revelation is this: "I also was told the so-called Lewisburg 'mystery woman' was carefully checked out, which also wasn't the case."

You will have to flesh that out, a lot more than [you] have. The law I mean. The AG, unfortunately, is not the "super prosecutor" or "investigator of last resort." Take over? Probably not. Parallel? Possibly. I suspect there was more to PSP-CIA review than meets the eye.

He might debate Morganelli, but no one will watch them. Morganelli has a good proposal, but it doesn't really do anything in this case. It's still up to the locals to call in the unit.I am aware that a woman of interest may not have been thoroughly scrutinized...and that the BPD is probably better off under its current management. But, what exactly has MR been up to...besides reading fiction novels?

One major stone wall which has surrounded this case though (and I think of it as a conspiracy) revolves around Corbett and the Corbett/Madeira relationship. TC has never demonstrated any leadership whatsoever in regard to this case...or even any concern, notwithstanding the unscripted gem (where are his keys), when TC went to State College in May '05, prepared only to endorse MM for DA. There is a reason why TC turned his back on RG. And it most certainly has nothing to do with the law...that is just an incredible excuse.

I do not believe we have heard many details of Morganelli's plan yet. But it has to be within the state AG's power to investigate matters of state importance...even if it is not spelled out in the law. And, while I am disappointed that Morganelli has not addressed RG's case "in depth", as he apparently promised, I have already heard more from him than TC has ever said on the topic. Reelect TC and it will be more years of nothingness. Elect Morganelli and there is the promise of change...and "change" seems to be the catchword for this election cycle.

[J. J. in Phila]

I am aware that a woman of interest may not have been thoroughly scrutinized...and that the BPD is probably better off under its current management. But, what exactly has MR been up to...besides reading fiction novels?



I would suspect a lot more.


One major stone wall which has surrounded this case though (and I think of it as a conspiracy) revolves around Corbett and the Corbett/Madeira relationship. TC has never demonstrated any leadership whatsoever in regard to this case...or even any concern, notwithstanding the unscripted gem (where are his keys), when TC went to State College in May '05, prepared only to endorse MM for DA. There is a reason why TC turned his back on RG. And it most certainly has nothing to do with the law...that is just an incredible excuse.


I see the problem as MM, more so than TC. MM could simply say that he believes this is across county jurisdictions and call on TC to investigate. He hasn't. That is where the stumbling block is.

We can focus on TC all we want, but at the end of the day, whoever is AG will still have to contend with MM. As can be seen with Bob Buehner, the AG doesn't get to order local DA's around.


I do not believe we have heard many details of Morganelli's plan yet. But it has to be within the state AG's power to investigate matters of state importance...even if it is not spelled out in the law.


Why, because you think that is how it should work? Sorry, but these people, and RFG was one of "these people," do what is "spelled out in the law."

Now, in general, Morganelli has a good idea, including advocating the use of an investigative grand jury, but again he cannot force MM to do anything. His proposals, while good, don't add anything because they are tools that used to help the local DA. MM is unwilling to pick up the tools he has now.

It would take a change in statute to do what you want done. Even Morganelli is not suggesting that.