melanie Mcguire

[nsm]

has anyone heard of any news regarding Melanie Mcguire? Is she appealing? (not that she has a chance)

[GinoA797]

I'm from NJ and I haven't heard or seen anything about her in our newspapers....

[totallyBARD]

Originally posted by nsm
has anyone heard of any news regarding Melanie Mcguire? Is she appealing? (not that she has a chance) [/*]

Like other convicted murderers who maintain their innocence, which is virtually all of them, Melanie McGuire is appealing her conviction. (They have nothing to lose in doing so) There are many others in front of her waiting in the long NJ appeals line, so she may be in for quite a wait.

In the meantime, John Glatt's book on the Melanie McGuire case will be in book stores December 2, entitled "To Have and To Kill: Nurse Melanie McGuire, An Illicit Affair, and the Gruesome Murder of Her Husband." (It can be pre-ordered on Amazon.com too)

[bugsy]

Yup, the case is being appealed.

The appeal, being handled by Baker Botts law firm, should be filed early fall (give or take of course).

[bugsy]

Originally posted by MISSIONMM
Bugsy- I'm sure you didn't mean to give the wrong impression so allow me to make this issue clear so there are no misconceptions. The appeal is being handled by counsel appointed by the State of New Jersey, as McGuire has claimed indigency. Perhaps Baker Botts is assisting in some capacity, but they are not representing or "handling" her case. If your information comes from "inside sources", you might want to question the veracity of their claims.

In any event, it is a non-story and she is yesterdays news. She's just another convict claiming innocence. Don't they all? [/*]

Well now you're just being silly.

The appeal is being written, researched, and if necessary, will be argued by lawyers from Baker Botts.

But, if, as you say, it's a non story, you have nothing to worry about, right?

[totallyBARD]

Originally posted by MISSIONMM
Bugsy- I'm sure you didn't mean to give the wrong impression so allow me to make this issue clear so there are no misconceptions. The appeal is being handled by counsel appointed by the State of New Jersey, as McGuire has claimed indigency. Perhaps Baker Botts is assisting in some capacity, but they are not representing or "handling" her case. If your information comes from "inside sources", you might want to question the veracity of their claims.

In any event, it is a non-story and she is yesterdays news. She's just another convict claiming innocence. Don't they all? [/*]

You are quite correct in that there are several misconceptions being put forth in the MM case, including who is representing her in any appeals.

I understand any possible accomplice persons-of-interest remain under the investigative radar screen. (Some accomplices are arrested years after the mastermind is convicted.)

Do you know if any of Melanie's people are still lawyered up? My own opinion is that possibly as many as 3-4 assisted in various aspects of Melanie's egregious actions.

[kakax]

Good to see you all again! Just stopped by to check if there was any new news...I see there isn't.

BTW, I can feel the love in here!;)

[bugsy]

Originally posted by MISSIONMM
Absolutely no worries here. I have the utmost confidence that her conviction will be upheld throughout the appeals process.

I stand by my assertion, however; if believing they are in charge of her appeal makes you feel optimistic about the outcome then keep believing. I remember the unrealistic optimism when Tacopina took over her case. We all know how that panned out.

Obviously, you are another one of her victims. I won't bother arguing this point with you in the future. [/*]

"another one of her victims"?

[totallyBARD]

Originally posted by kakax
Good to see you all again! Just stopped by to check if there was any new news...I see there isn't.

BTW, I can feel the love in here!;) [/*]

Hi KAKAX! Good to see ya! Maybe you didn't read the whole thread? There certainly IS new news.

Esteemed investigative journalist John Glatt's eye-opening book on the MM case is scheduled for release on December 2. Prepare yourself for what may be more surprising revelations about Melanie McGuire.

And of course, like virtualy all convicted killers, she is still claiming innocence and preparing for the lengthy appeals process. As has been said, although unsubstantiated rumors persist that certain lawyers are helping her behind the scene, Melanie has declared herself indigent, so Public Defenders are expected to handle any appeal presentations.

BTW, I personally could not feel love or any form of it for someone who premeditates the murder of their husband and then desecrates his body. To each his own, but it's just not me or anyone I know. Even discussing a murder case in general does not cause emotions of love to surface. Sorry, I'm not with you on this one.

[Pooh]

Originally posted by 12AngryMen


Baker Botts LLP is one of the world's most respected law firms. I'm expecting Melanie's conviction to be reversed and her case remanded for a new trial. [/*]
:beer: I'm right there with ya 12!

[JConnolly]

Originally posted by Pooh

:beer: I'm right there with ya 12!
Just out of curiosity... Convince me that she's not guilty as charged/convicted. I didn't follow the case that much when it was on CourtTV, and only know what I've read here, and a couple of "Dateline" type shows that have aired the case.

I really would like to know what the NGs here consider convincing that she's not guilty. :)

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Originally posted by JConnolly

Just out of curiosity... Convince me that she's not guilty as charged/convicted. I didn't follow the case that much when it was on CourtTV, and only know what I've read here, and a couple of "Dateline" type shows that have aired the case.

I really would like to know what the NGs here consider convincing that she's not guilty. :) [/*]


Since you didnt watch this trial live..ou could not understand some of the reasons for reasonable doubters..Much as I dislike Tacopena, I think he did try to point to reasonable other connections to what happened to Melanies husband...This was a circumstantial case..and after numerous examinations of their house, drains, extensive..and given the dismemberment of the deceased..it is a wonder how Melanie could have done this deed. Having said all that, it is not dificult to see just where the jury hung their hats on tho..but for myself?..Not sure she did this..and hope they come up with some exculpatory evidence ..enough to either clear Melanie or Nail it shut in my mind..Just a question mark for me..thats all.

LMShammer

[JConnolly]

Originally posted by Lyndawitha"Y



Since you didnt watch this trial live..ou could not understand some of the reasons for reasonable doubters..Much as I dislike Tacopena, I think he did try to point to reasonable other connections to what happened to Melanies husband...This was a circumstantial case..and after numerous examinations of their house, drains, extensive..and given the dismemberment of the deceased..it is a wonder how Melanie could have done this deed. Having said all that, it is not dificult to see just where the jury hung their hats on tho..but for myself?..Not sure she did this..and hope they come up with some exculpatory evidence ..enough to either clear Melanie or Nail it shut in my mind..Just a question mark for me..thats all.

LMShammer ]
Thanks! Yeah, I didn't know about about nothing coming 'up or out' of the drains... but... wasn't she a nurse? I'm just sayin' -- she'd know "how" to cut someone up? I'm all for looking at both sides. Thanks again for your kind reply. :)

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Originally posted by JConnolly

Thanks! Yeah, I didn't know about about nothing coming 'up or out' of the drains... but... wasn't she a nurse? I'm just sayin' -- she'd know "how" to cut someone up? I'm all for looking at both sides. Thanks again for your kind reply. :) [/*]

LOL...Im a nurse and worked in ICU's, Emergency Rooms, Caserooms, Trauma Rooms front lines for almost 4 decades..and even I would not know how to cut up a body, sterilze my drains, dispatch a body without any trace..Yiks..not to mention the strength needed!! I believe Melanie was a nurse and worked in a Fertility Clinic...certainly no expertise learned in that line of work..yep sterile technique maybe..but be able to pull this off like a surgeon, nope..then be able to clean up after..doubt it!!

I also recal that her husband was a gambler, and had some exposure to the underworld so to speak.and had DEBTS..unpaid..


LMS:seeya:

[JConnolly]

Originally posted by Lyndawitha"Y


LOL...Im a nurse and worked in ICU's, Emergency Rooms, Caserooms, Trauma Rooms front lines for almost 4 decades..and even I would not know how to cut up a body, sterilze my drains, dispatch a body without any trace..Yiks..not to mention the strength needed!! I believe Melanie was a nurse and worked in a Fertility Clinic...certainly no expertise learned in that line of work..yep sterile technique maybe..but be able to pull this off like a surgeon, nope..then be able to clean up after..doubt it!!

I also recal that her husband was a gambler, and had some exposure to the underworld so to speak.and had DEBTS..unpaid..


LMS:seeya:
Well, you DO make a valid point. I watched a rerun over the weekend, of Charlie (Carl) Brandt, who killed his wife, his niece ("Victoria's Secret" he called her) then hung himself ... this happened in FLA around the time of hurricane IVAN. Anyway, he dismembered Michelle Jones' (the niece) body with exact precision, and cut out her heart. The LE found posters of skeletons/muscle, etc., on the back of his bedroom door. He was an engineer. Not a surgeon. But his ability to dismember was astonishing!

What does LMS mean?

eta-- Still on Charlie Brandt: Come to find out, he shot his father, murdered his own pregnant mother when he was 13 years old, and has been linked to at least three other victims who matched the way Michelle was killed.

Not that any of that has anything to do with anything... I guess my point was that Brandt was not even a medical person.

[totallyBARD]

Originally posted by Lyndawitha"Y


LOL...Im a nurse and worked in ICU's, Emergency Rooms, Caserooms, Trauma Rooms front lines for almost 4 decades..and even I would not know how to cut up a body, sterilze my drains, dispatch a body without any trace..Yiks..not to mention the strength needed!! I believe Melanie was a nurse and worked in a Fertility Clinic...certainly no expertise learned in that line of work..yep sterile technique maybe..but be able to pull this off like a surgeon, nope..then be able to clean up after..doubt it!!

I also recal that her husband was a gambler, and had some exposure to the underworld so to speak.and had DEBTS..unpaid..


LMS:seeya: [/*]

Hi Lynda! If I could set the record straight per trial testimony: Melanie McGuire had no surgical amputation experience that I know of, in her few years working at the fertility clinic. And the tecniques used to dismember her husband have previously been used on other victims by undereducated murderers. Body chopping is not a fine art, especially if you are a spouse in a hurry and wanting to do a suitcase disposal which would look normal to any possible onlooker thinking you were simply getting ready to move or going on a vacation.

And not that her affairs with doctors etc makes her a murderer, but there was much evidence involving her (and possibly accomplices) which point directly to her planning, executing, and INTENSIVE covering up of what she did to her husband.

Her defense attempted to paint Melanie's husband as an out-of-control, womanizing, abusive husband. When the truth was revealed, husband Bill McGuire was mostly watching the very young children while Melanie was visiting her lovers and calling them up to 20 times a day and several evenings a week. Husband William gambled 4 times in 2004, the year he was murdered, not exactly a gamble-holic. And if he had heavy debt, he would not have qualified for the mortgage on the house he obtained for his family. On the day Bill and Melanie closed on the house, April 28, 2004, Melanie called her lover and told him. He was upset, as they had discussed future plans to dump their spouses and be together. Melanie told him, (paraphrase): "Don't worry. Everything is going to be okay."

Within a few hours after assuring her lovesick Daddy-Doc Warbucks that she was taking care of business, Melanie did. William was dead and dismembered. She concocted many stories for different people who asked questions, both before and after the suitcases popped up. Some stories are incredulous. Some are laughable. The smart jury saw the truth through all that obstruction.

I think Melanie wanted her husband out of the way because her latest lover was a very wealthy doctor who apparently was emotionally pliable and Melanie apparently fancied herself as moving up the financial ladder with this dude she had on the hook for so long.

I don't think she EVER expected those suitcases to pop up, with strong evidence as to where the murder took place and who did it. When the hundreds of pieces of evidence were all put together, it pointed to guess who.

Do not forget that although Melanie's mother, stepdad (who owned many saws) and best friend from childhood supported Melanie's stories on lots of TV shows, they never took the trial stand to alibi Melanie or testify as to her "pure" character. Taking the witness stand means having to be legally accountable for what you say. In other words, you MUST tell the truth or be held liable. None of the aforementioned took the stand. Like Melanie, they only told stories on TV interviews. And the murder investigation is still open on the subject of any possible accomplices, so we may hear something on that score in the future.

I think you'll need to read crime investigator John Glatt's book and the former CTV crime library to get the real basic story. The trial is long over and done with. Message board posters are anonymous nics who do not provide their true identities. For all you know, I could be one of Melanie's lover's wives, husbands, or another victim of her sordid past. Or someone who knows someone in my own past, just like this killer. So do not take my word for authenticity. Get the facts from reliable sources.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Originally posted by Beebee


"sterile technique maybe" is where you don't give her enough credit. I work in an OR... how do you think we can turn over sterile rooms in 15 minutes or less?

Her "finding" his car and then moving it is what convinced me.

Also- the suitcases and blanket from her work. Did he take empty suitcases to have his body put into? How do you explain that?

The missing gun SHE bought?? Hmm. [/*]

Ido get where you are coming from..however..the murder couldnt have happened in their house..and she couldnt have never done this by herself..so in that they could not tie anybody else into this I do have to questions..Just the way I look at it...thats all..She indeed do alot of suspicious things post murder..but then again she was the prime suspect..For me, OR nurse does not enable or educate someone to know how to coverup such bloody activities..unless one had HELP to commit this..I cant see this women pulling this off on her own..But certainly can see the suggestiveness!!

Given HIS particular lifstyle I only wish his contacts and whereabouts could have been substantiated..

LMS:shrug:

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Originally posted by totallyBARD


Hi Lynda! If I could set the record straight per trial testimony: Melanie McGuire had no surgical amputation experience that I know of, in her few years working at the fertility clinic. And the tecniques used to dismember her husband have previously been used on other victims by undereducated murderers. Body chopping is not a fine art, especially if you are a spouse in a hurry and wanting to do a suitcase disposal which would look normal to any possible onlooker thinking you were simply getting ready to move or going on a vacation.

And not that her affairs with doctors etc makes her a murderer, but there was much evidence involving her (and possibly accomplices) which point directly to her planning, executing, and INTENSIVE covering up of what she did to her husband.

Her defense attempted to paint Melanie's husband as an out-of-control, womanizing, abusive husband. When the truth was revealed, husband Bill McGuire was mostly watching the very young children while Melanie was visiting her lovers and calling them up to 20 times a day and several evenings a week. Husband William gambled 4 times in 2004, the year he was murdered, not exactly a gamble-holic. And if he had heavy debt, he would not have qualified for the mortgage on the house he obtained for his family. On the day Bill and Melanie closed on the house, April 28, 2004, Melanie called her lover and told him. He was upset, as they had discussed future plans to dump their spouses and be together. Melanie told him, (paraphrase): "Don't worry. Everything is going to be okay."

Within a few hours after assuring her lovesick Daddy-Doc Warbucks that she was taking care of business, Melanie did. William was dead and dismembered. She concocted many stories for different people who asked questions, both before and after the suitcases popped up. Some stories are incredulous. Some are laughable. The smart jury saw the truth through all that obstruction.

I think Melanie wanted her husband out of the way because her latest lover was a very wealthy doctor who apparently was emotionally pliable and Melanie apparently fancied herself as moving up the financial ladder with this dude she had on the hook for so long.

I don't think she EVER expected those suitcases to pop up, with strong evidence as to where the murder took place and who did it. When the hundreds of pieces of evidence were all put together, it pointed to guess who.

Do not forget that although Melanie's mother, stepdad (who owned many saws) and best friend from childhood supported Melanie's stories on lots of TV shows, they never took the trial stand to alibi Melanie or testify as to her "pure" character. Taking the witness stand means having to be legally accountable for what you say. In other words, you MUST tell the truth or be held liable. None of the aforementioned took the stand. Like Melanie, they only told stories on TV interviews. And the murder investigation is still open on the subject of any possible accomplices, so we may hear something on that score in the future.

I think you'll need to read crime investigator John Glatt's book and the former CTV crime library to get the real basic story. The trial is long over and done with. Message board posters are anonymous nics who do not provide their true identities. For all you know, I could be one of Melanie's lover's wives, husbands, or another victim of her sordid past. Or someone who knows someone in my own past, just like this killer. So do not take my word for authenticity. Get the facts from reliable sources. [/*]

It seems you do have inside knowledge that the jury never got to hear..so since lowly me only heard tetimony..that all I can make a opinion on..that is not an excuse..but a reason for my thoughts on this..She (Melanie) was not a happily married women..yet wonder how a small lady like this could do all this on her own??

Just wondering??

LMS:shrug:

[RayStar]

Originally posted by Lyndawitha"Y



Since you didnt watch this trial live..ou could not understand some of the reasons for reasonable doubters..Much as I dislike Tacopena, I think he did try to point to reasonable other connections to what happened to Melanies husband...This was a circumstantial case..and after numerous examinations of their house, drains, extensive..and given the dismemberment of the deceased..it is a wonder how Melanie could have done this deed. Having said all that, it is not dificult to see just where the jury hung their hats on tho..but for myself?..Not sure she did this..and hope they come up with some exculpatory evidence ..enough to either clear Melanie or Nail it shut in my mind..Just a question mark for me..thats all.

LMShammer [/*]Hello I am one of the doubters. I really did not want MM to be convicted. I was glued to the TV on this one. If anything swayed me it was her BIG mouth. That love sick friend of hers $)(*&^%! What a friend! The poor doctor was really in love/lust. That female DA Ms. P is tough. I'd like to see MM2.:)

[totallyBARD]

Originally posted by Lyndawitha"Y


It seems you do have inside knowledge that the jury never got to hear..so since lowly me only heard tetimony..that all I can make a opinion on..that is not an excuse..but a reason for my thoughts on this..She (Melanie) was not a happily married women..yet wonder how a small lady like this could do all this on her own??

Just wondering??

LMS:shrug: [/*]

My opinions are based mostly on trial testimony, personal experience with people in general, and the media, although I noted that one media source might sometimes have had a different slant than another media source regarding things discussed at the trial.

Note: Although Tacopina described Melanie on a TV show as practically a midget on TV and he described Bill McGuire as VERY tall and heavy, neither was the truth if you check media-researched records. If you check out Melanie's physical stats upon entering prison, she is neither short or anything close to a 90 pound weakling. Being of average size and weight and using good body mechanics, she could easily have done what she did. Could she have had help any/every step of the way, from the planning through all the obstruction? I personally think so.

Could one of her problems have been that it wasn't so much she was unhappily married (their closest friends stated they looked very happy) .... but could she have had a few screws loose and needed to have as many already-attached men as possible for reasons only a good psychiatrist can determine? Was Bill McGuire her only murder victim? Was she a nympho as a young teen? Was lying second nature to her even as a young child? Did her parents know about any problems and if so, did they ever get help for her? There are so many questions about why depraved people like Melanie become like they are. Is it nature? Is it nurture? Is it both?

Go through the trial testimony again and read the Glatt book when it comes out Dec 2.

[Roux]

The prosecution did a fantastic job in their CA, taking everything point-by-point. I watched the trial and am convinced that Melanie was responsible for Bill's death. Do I wonder about a few things? Yes, but not nearly enough to dismiss the majority of the evidence. The guilty verdict was the right verdict.

[totallyBARD]

Originally posted by MISSIONMM
12Angry's post above, citing MM's accomplishments and history, was permanently removed from Wikipedia for multiple inaccuracies and omissions. Below is an excerpt from Judge DeVesa's sentencing remarks, which more closely reflect Melanie McGuire's character.

Judge DeVesa's Sentencing of Melanie McGuire- July 19, 2007

"...THE DEPRAVITY OF THE MURDER WAS FURTHER MANIFESTED BY THE EFFORTS ON THE PART OF THE DEFENDANT TO PORTRAY WILLIAM MCGUIRE AS AN ABUSIVE HUSBAND AND A CHRONIC GAMBLER WHO WAS INDEBTED TO ORGANIZED CRIME FIGURES AS PART OF HER ATTEMPT TO SHIFT THE BLAME FOR HIS MURDER TO OTHERS. AND AS THE ATTORNEY GENERAL POINTED OUT DURING THE COURSE OF THE TRIAL, THERE WAS SIMPLY NO CREDIBLE EVIDENCE TO SUGGEST THAT THIS CHARACTERIZATION OF MR. MCGUIRE WAS IN ANY WAY ACCURATE. BUT PERHAPS MOST TRAGICALLY, THE MURDER OF WILLIAM MCGUIRE AND THE ATTACK ON HIS CHARACTER HAS SURELY CAUSED GRAVE HARM TO HIS CHILDREN. THEY MUST NOW GROW UP WITHOUT A MOTHER OR A FATHER, AND THEIR MEMORIES OF BOTH WILL BE DISTORTED AND CONFUSED BY THE WEB OF DECEPTION CREATED BY THE DEFENDANT..." [/*]

I watched Judge DeVesa deliver his powerful statement during Melanie McGuire's sentencing, after twelve jurors found her guilty of first degree murder, buying a gun for illegal purposes, desecrating her husband's body after she brutally killed him, and lying to the NJ Court system.

Unfortunately, I did not tape Judge DeVesa's sentencing statement, in which he explicitly set forth his reasons for removing this depraved woman from society for life.

If you have more of his statement, I'd sure like to read it. Thank you.

[Marcia3]

Well stated, MissionMM. I watched most of the trial and would have had no trouble finding her guilty, and apparently the jury was able to come to the same conclusion.

The appeals process, IMO, will serve no useful purpose for Ms. Melanie. I believe she will die in prison, and as for any potential accomplices...well, there may be some folks out there who jump every time a car pulls into their driveway or their phone rings.

JMO of course.

[totallyBARD]

With apologies, I'd like to make the following correction. I said in a recent previous post that William McGuire had gambled 4 times in 2004.

According to court testimony for the Prosecution in April of 2007 by Leon Sarao, Taj Mahal Supervisor, he reviewed for jurors records based on the victim's use of a loyalty card that allows patrons to earn complimentary services, such as free drinks and hotel rooms. He said card records indicate McGuire made a dozen trips to Atlantic City in 2003, staying for as long as three days at a time and gambling for 53 total hours. In 2004, the year of his death, he only went ONCE.

Entire story resource: http://www.courttv.com/trials/mcguire/040207_ctv.html

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by MISSIONMM
Thanks, Marcia. Sometimes the things I read cause me to shake my head in disbelief. I hope I didn't come across in the wrong way, but I just don't understand how some people are eager to put stock in the multiple lies told by MM- despite her being proven a liar, time after time after time. Not to mention the fact that none of her allegations were made under oath by anyone, including her. [/*]

You're welcome, MissionMM. I thought your post was thoughtful and you laid out the facts quite well. I don't understand anyone's doubt here either, reasonable or otherwise. Poor William McGuire, whatever his faults were, did not deserve what his wife (working alone or with someone else) did to him.

JMO, of course.

[nsm]

Originally posted by Lyndawitha"Y


LOL...Im a nurse and worked in ICU's, Emergency Rooms, Caserooms, Trauma Rooms front lines for almost 4 decades..and even I would not know how to cut up a body, sterilze my drains, dispatch a body without any trace..Yiks..not to mention the strength needed!! I believe Melanie was a nurse and worked in a Fertility Clinic...certainly no expertise learned in that line of work..yep sterile technique maybe..but be able to pull this off like a surgeon, nope..then be able to clean up after..doubt it!!

I also recal that her husband was a gambler, and had some exposure to the underworld so to speak.and had DEBTS..unpaid..


LMS:seeya: [/*]

He may have been a gambler but according the the testimony from a manager at the TAJ where he played, according to his play card, he actually WON alot and not lose.
If she had an accomplise, why would she not speak up and take the blame for the whole thing? She cleaned her apt up so well, there was NO dna from anyone. She is quilty as charged.

Nicole

[totallyBARD]

Originally posted by MISSIONMM

Hi TB,

I have noted in the past that you are one of the most conscientious and reliably honest posters on these boards, so it comes as no surprise that you would correct yourself before anyone could point out your mistake. I'd like to add that I always enjoy reading your posts and find them very informative.

I'd like to add that there was only one 3 day trip to AC in October '03, for a vacation with his wife and the Rices. The remaining number of visits that year (9) were of very short duration (sometimes as little as 20 minutes), and average out to less than once per month. Hardly a prolific or addicted gambler by any stretch of the imagination. [/*]

Thanks very much, MNMM! I'm blushing to the roots of my dyed blond hair! lol

I read quite a bit about how Melanie embellished much about William which turned out to be untrue, including his so-called gambling "addiction" and association with mobsters. Where could she have gotten such silliness from? I've heard that her own family spent a lot of time gambling in AC for many years and they themselves had a fondness for Tony Soprano characters in books, ETC. Could Melanie's imagination have conjured up stories from her own background??? Maybe John Glatt's book will shed light on this? I sure hope so.

I'm surprised no one has brought up Melanie's penchant for lying over many years to so many, especally her family. For her to be able to have so many men on the side and call them up to 20 times a day and see them several evenings a week.....William must have really been crazy about her to believe her lies about having to "be with her patients" at all hours of the evening and weekends. He obviously didn't know about her other life, or her plans for him. If he did, he surely would not have worked extra hard to provide a fine home for someone who obviously did not know the meaning of the word love.

[totallyBARD]

Originally posted by totallyBARD


I watched Judge DeVesa deliver his powerful statement during Melanie McGuire's sentencing, after twelve jurors found her guilty of first degree murder, buying a gun for illegal purposes, desecrating her husband's body after she brutally killed him, and lying to the NJ Court system.

Unfortunately, I did not tape Judge DeVesa's sentencing statement, in which he explicitly set forth his reasons for removing this depraved woman from society for life.

If you have more of his statement, I'd sure like to read it. Thank you. [/*]

Thanks to the person who steered me to Judge Frederick P. DeVesa's entire sentencing remarks of Melanie McGuire on the following web site:

http://helpfindthemissing.org/forum/showthread.php?t=355

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Originally posted by MISSIONMM
Lynda,


"...I also recal that her husband was a gambler, and had some exposure to the underworld so to speak.and had DEBTS..unpaid..." and "Given HIS particular lifstyle I only wish his contacts and whereabouts could have been substantiated.."


Regarding your remarks above, I don't understand how you fail to differentiate between sworn testimony by witnesses subjected to cross-examination and unsubstantiated allegation made by the defendant's attorney during opening and closing remarks. MM's lies were never corroborated or shown to have any factual basis, and the defense presented no witnesses to buttress her ever-changing fictional stories. Additionally, neither her parents, brother, nor best friends or work associates could give her an alibi for any of the weeks and months in question both before and after the murder, they did not testify to help lend even the most minute validity to her claims, and they did not take the stand to testify to her character. Instead, those closest to her lawyered up and shut their mouths, except for statements to the media bashing the victim.

There was absolutely no testimony that WM had any "exposure" to the underworld nor was there any evidence presented of even the hint of "debts unpaid". That was merely desperate fabrication by her defense in an effort to cast suspicion elsewhere and to try to provide the jury with some degree of doubt. As for "Given HIS particular lifestyle", I have no idea what you mean by that. I assume you refer again to MM's unsubstantiated allegations, with no basis in fact, but since nothing you allege was proven, then one can safely assume that your desire for confirmation of her prevarications will not be forthcoming. Throughout 6 weeks of trial testimony, MM's stories were given no credibility by any witness.

There was no mob involvement, nor was there a letter written by a mobster claiming responsibility for the crime. There were no unpaid debts, there was no request by WM that she purchase a gun, there was no history of "pranking" each other by moving cars, there was no cab ride, there was no argument, there was no threat that "he said he was leaving and never coming back", to name just a few. In fact, I can't think of a single thing she said which was supported through witnesses or testimony.

As for any doubt that she could have committed this crime alone, the prosecution indicted her on accomplice-liability, meaning that they think she had help, however; any accomplices have yet to be charged. The case remains officially open.

Please read Judge DeVesa's sentencing remarks. And remember, he was also privy to ALL of the evidence found through investigation, much of which he ruled would have been too prejudicial to be heard by the jury. [/*]

Man oh man..I have never seen my posts quoted so many times..and I was only questioning..not saying anything other than I had questions..Once again.. post death behavior is so very important ..I truly wish that anyone related to a deceased (murdered victim) behave appropriately..as it seems to me it was her affair..the taped phone calls from friend and lover which was her undoing..Sorry if I offended anyone..I just dont see this women doing this on her own!!..I do recall speculation about her father's input..but no one else implicated..Her lover apparantly was cleared and cooperated..So who knows?

LMS

:shrug:

[Sherri]

Absolutely no worries here. I have the utmost confidence that her conviction will be upheld throughout the appeals process.

I stand by my assertion, however; if believing they are in charge of her appeal makes you feel optimistic about the outcome then keep believing. I remember the unrealistic optimism when Tacopina took over her case. We all know how that panned out.

Obviously, you are another one of her victims. I won't bother arguing this point with you in the future.


I agree, there's not much doubt to her guilt. Still its an interesting case and I for one would like to read about it further.

[Sherri]

Why do they always google murder from their computers? :no:

And there's always the strong smell of bleach, lol. This case reminds me of Peterson, on so many levels. Of course putting the body in your own set of luggage isn't probably bright nor well planned.


http://www.courttv.com/trials/mcguire/031307_ctv.html



http://www.courttv.com/trials/mcguire/031507_ctv.html


http://www.courttv.com/trials/mcguire/032807_ctv.html

[Jack&Jill]

[QUOTE=Sherri;12085676]Why do they always google murder from their computers? :no:

And there's always the strong smell of bleach, lol. This case reminds me of Peterson, on so many levels. Of course putting the body in your own set of luggage isn't probably bright nor well planned.


http://www.courttv.com/trials/mcguire/031307_ctv.html



http://www.courttv.com/trials/mcguire/031507_ctv.html


http://www.courttv.com/trials/mcguire/032807_ctv.html[/QUO



Other than the bodies ending up in a bay of water, I don't see a lot of similarities. I don't recall Lacy's house smelling of bleach. I can understand cleaning with bleach, but why that coworker said it smelled like a morgue was unclear. If that townhouse smelled so bad, why would the woman buy a couch from MM? It was a velvet couch wasn't it? That would easily pick up bad odors. I think that woman just wanted to put on a show for the jury.

[totallyBARD]

[QUOTE=Sherri;12085676]Why do they always google murder from their computers? :no:

And there's always the strong smell of bleach, lol. This case reminds me of Peterson, on so many levels. Of course putting the body in your own set of luggage isn't probably bright nor well planned.


http://www.courttv.com/trials/mcguire/031307_ctv.html



http://www.courttv.com/trials/mcguire/031507_ctv.html


http://www.courttv.com/trials/mcguire/032807_ctv.html[/QUO



Other than the bodies ending up in a bay of water, I don't see a lot of similarities. I don't recall Lacy's house smelling of bleach. I can understand cleaning with bleach, but why that coworker said it smelled like a morgue was unclear. If that townhouse smelled so bad, why would the woman buy a couch from MM? It was a velvet couch wasn't it? That would easily pick up bad odors. I think that woman just wanted to put on a show for the jury.

The woman was a fellow nurse who had no idea the house smelled of bleach until she was actually IN the house. When she was near the master bathroom, she felt that the area smelled like a morgue, according to court testimony.

Almost NO ONE wants to testify if they can get out of it. Yet this testimony added credibility to the townhouse being completely and thoroughly SUPER-CLEANED. (The townhouse lease only called for the place to be in "broom clean" condition. Apparently there was much to clean and cover up before police looked at the place about 3 weeks later.)

[Jack&Jill]

Another thing about the couch that coworker bought from MM. Who would want to buy a couch if they thought that there had been a murder there? I don't think this coworker thought that at the time, but her trial testimony sure got ramped up from what she had testified to early by the sounds of things. Was she pressured by the prosecutor? I still don't think cleaning with bleach is any big deal. What is broom cleaning anyway?

[totallyBARD]

Another thing about the couch that coworker bought from MM. Who would want to buy a couch if they thought that there had been a murder there? I don't think this coworker thought that at the time, but her trial testimony sure got ramped up from what she had testified to early by the sounds of things. Was she pressured by the prosecutor? I still don't think cleaning with bleach is any big deal. What is broom cleaning anyway?

Broom clean condition means that the townhouse apartment has to be left in a reasonable condition. The apartment complex maintenance crew then comes in to repaint the walls, clean the floors and get ready for new tenants. In the case of Melanie McGuire, apparently the walls, floors and fixtures were in literally NEW condition, which is MORE THAN HIGHLY UNUSUAL for a normal tenant-moving-out-situation.

Now that we know she did her husband in, it is easy to understand why she (and any possible accomplices) spent three weeks destroying some major evidence of the crime.

When I listened to the trial, the evidence against Melanie McGuire quickly piled up way beyond any one person's testimony. All the defense could do was try to make the murder victim seem worse than the defendant (a common defense tactic) but it didn't wash. Neither did Melanie's many obstruction tricks. The evidence against her as a depraved murderer was far too substantial, which is why she is now spending the rest of her life in prison.

[Jack&Jill]

Broom clean condition means that the townhouse apartment has to be left in a reasonable condition. The apartment complex maintenance crew then comes in to repaint the walls, clean the floors and get ready for new tenants. In the case of Melanie McGuire, apparently the walls, floors and fixtures were in literally NEW condition, which is MORE THAN HIGHLY UNUSUAL for a normal tenant-moving-out-situation.

Now that we know she did her husband in, it is easy to understand why she (and any possible accomplices) spent three weeks destroying some major evidence of the crime.

When I listened to the trial, the evidence against Melanie McGuire quickly piled up way beyond any one person's testimony. All the defense could do was try to make the murder victim seem worse than the defendant (a common defense tactic) but it didn't wash. Neither did Melanie's many obstruction tricks. The evidence against her as a depraved murderer was far too substantial, which is why she is now spending the rest of her life in prison.


TB,
Thanks for clearing that up for me. Didn't anyone come over to the townhouse right after the murder? I would have thought someone would be there for her as she had just lost her husband. If a murder had occurred there, wouldn't the people who were given some stuff seen or smelled something? You wouldn't start cleaning until the place was mostly empty. I am just not sure that the murder happened there. There just seems like that there would have been better options for MM than shooting him there. Do you know if there were neighbors close by and how big the building was? I have often wondered how close the McGuires were able to park to their place. Could people have heard car doors slamming from their homes?

[Sherri]

The prescription for Chloralhydrate was another smoking gun and Melanie's undoing.

[totallyBARD]

TB,
Thanks for clearing that up for me. Didn't anyone come over to the townhouse right after the murder? I would have thought someone would be there for her as she had just lost her husband. If a murder had occurred there, wouldn't the people who were given some stuff seen or smelled something? You wouldn't start cleaning until the place was mostly empty. I am just not sure that the murder happened there. There just seems like that there would have been better options for MM than shooting him there. Do you know if there were neighbors close by and how big the building was? I have often wondered how close the McGuires were able to park to their place. Could people have heard car doors slamming from their homes?

This particular townhouse complex, like many similar in the area, drew many college students, single professionals, and young marrieds. People moving in and out all the time was the norm. People working and not being home during the day was the norm.

If you are asking whether any possible Melanie accomplices visited soon after the murder to help her dismember/dispose of the body and clean up, I guess that is entirely possible. Court testimony seemed to indicate she had assistance. And those few who were in her private group, like her mom, stepdad and best friend Selene, never took the stand to alibi Melanie, support Melanie, or say anything in her behalf. I found it odd that they felt okay to talk to the media but not to the jury. It raised another huge red flag for me.

To learn more about this case, its principal players, and what may be new information to you, see John Glatt's book on the subject, due for release this Dec 2. The book is titled, "To Have and To Kill: Nurse Melanie McGuire, an Illicit Affair, and the Gruesome Murder of Her Husband"

[totallyBARD]

The prescription for Chloralhydrate was another smoking gun and Melanie's undoing.

Don't forget that Melanie telling at least 4-6 different versions of her gun story to several different people was yet ANOTHER smoking gun! She lied to a judge. She lied to law enforcement. She lied to certain family members and friends.

She even denied owning her virtally brand new suitcases to law enforcement, until she realized others knew she had purchased the set months prior to the murder. So she had to cover her tracks and SUDDENLY remembered she had owned those suitcases. I wish I could have been there to see the look on her face when she was informed those suitcases popped up with all that evidence inside.

[Sherri]

Don't forget that Melanie telling at least 4-6 different versions of her gun story to several different people was yet ANOTHER smoking gun! She lied to a judge. She lied to law enforcement. She lied to certain family members and friends.

She even denied owning her virtally brand new suitcases to law enforcement, until she realized others knew she had purchased the set months prior to the murder. So she had to cover her tracks and SUDDENLY remembered she had owned those suitcases. I wish I could have been there to see the look on her face when she was informed those suitcases popped up with all that evidence inside.


Too bad she didn't google how to keep a body from floating to the surface, :D.

[Jack&Jill]

This particular townhouse complex, like many similar in the area, drew many college students, single professionals, and young marrieds. People moving in and out all the time was the norm. People working and not being home during the day was the norm.

If you are asking whether any possible Melanie accomplices visited soon after the murder to help her dismember/dispose of the body and clean up, I guess that is entirely possible. Court testimony seemed to indicate she had assistance. And those few who were in her private group, like her mom, stepdad and best friend Selene, never took the stand to alibi Melanie, support Melanie, or say anything in her behalf. I found it odd that they felt okay to talk to the media but not to the jury. It raised another huge red flag for me.

To learn more about this case, its principal players, and what may be new information to you, see John Glatt's book on the subject, due for release this Dec 2. The book is titled, "To Have and To Kill: Nurse Melanie McGuire, an Illicit Affair, and the Gruesome Murder of Her Husband"


Thanks for the information and about the book coming out. I look forward to reading it. I had wondered if someone would do a book. If this townhouse was in a roudy neighborhood, I could understand someone dismissing the gun shots. Otherwise, I'm thinking someone should have heard gunshots. I thought posibly why her family didn't testify was because they had nothing really important to add. They didn't live very close to the McGuires did they?

[totallyBARD]

Thanks for the information and about the book coming out. I look forward to reading it. I had wondered if someone would do a book. If this townhouse was in a roudy neighborhood, I could understand someone dismissing the gun shots. Otherwise, I'm thinking someone should have heard gunshots. I thought posibly why her family didn't testify was because they had nothing really important to add. They didn't live very close to the McGuires did they?

Noisy parties are common in this type of neighborhood. I remember reading a link once, where a few residents complained they regularly reported loud noises in that area. College kids, young singles, remember? Besides, the shots could easily have been muffled, and don't forget that Bill McGuire was probably shot when most people were not home.

I'm not naive. Melanie trusted very few people, and mom, stepdad and Selene were apparently among the very very few she bonded with. I feel they did not take the witness stand for legal reasons. The investigation is still officially open and I wonder if they still have lawyers on retainer just in case.

I understand they lived about the same distance from Melanie as her former place of work was.

Read the book when it is released, J&J. I'm thinking it will provide a lot more detail about Melanie, who she is, and the crimes she committed. I saw the trial, read message boards, and viewed media coverage including print media. But this book might shed even more light on the case.

[Jack&Jill]

Noisy parties are common in this type of neighborhood. I remember reading a link once, where a few residents complained they regularly reported loud noises in that area. College kids, young singles, remember? Besides, the shots could easily have been muffled, and don't forget that Bill McGuire was probably shot when most people were not home.

I'm not naive. Melanie trusted very few people, and mom, stepdad and Selene were apparently among the very very few she bonded with. I feel they did not take the witness stand for legal reasons. The investigation is still officially open and I wonder if they still have lawyers on retainer just in case.

I understand they lived about the same distance from Melanie as her former place of work was.

Read the book when it is released, J&J. I'm thinking it will provide a lot more detail about Melanie, who she is, and the crimes she committed. I saw the trial, read message boards, and viewed media coverage including print media. But this book might shed even more light on the case.


I will definitely get the book as i followed the trial some. When you say that MM did it while most of the other residents were gone confuses me as someone heard them yelling I thought. So then I am thinking this same person would have heard a gun shot. Were the police sure where the fiber came from that was on the bullets? Do we even know if WM was wearing clothes when shot? If he was wearing clothes, where would she put the bloody clothes? I cannot remember if there was any evidence in her vehicle or in WM's vehicle besides the tissue that may have come off from WM on the floor. I just don't know what to believe about the CH. If there was no way to say he had ingested any of it, why did the prosecutor make it such a big deal? I mean he was found in their suitcases, no less, which does sound quite stupid. That to me says a lot. I am thinking she may have done it in another location and not the home, but where?

[totallyBARD]

I will definitely get the book as i followed the trial some. When you say that MM did it while most of the other residents were gone confuses me as someone heard them yelling I thought. So then I am thinking this same person would have heard a gun shot. Were the police sure where the fiber came from that was on the bullets? Do we even know if WM was wearing clothes when shot? If he was wearing clothes, where would she put the bloody clothes? I cannot remember if there was any evidence in her vehicle or in WM's vehicle besides the tissue that may have come off from WM on the floor. I just don't know what to believe about the CH. If there was no way to say he had ingested any of it, why did the prosecutor make it such a big deal? I mean he was found in their suitcases, no less, which does sound quite stupid. That to me says a lot. I am thinking she may have done it in another location and not the home, but where?

A tremendous amount of evidence was presented to the jury, despite Melanie's attempts to foil the investigation. The defense job was not to prove innocence, but to create REASONABLE doubt. It was the Prosecution's burden to prove guilt, and in my opinion they did a tremendous job, despite the smoke screens.

Once Melanie McGuire's appeals are exhausted or any possible accomplices are arrested and charged, the few remaining questions may be answered. The who, what, where, how and why have already been answered in spades by the piles of evidence and the twelve jury members who convicted MM. In my opinion, how many other people were involved in Melanie's plot and a few other details, may be answered at any time, or never.

[nsm]

The victim was dead for almost a month before his body was identified. Killed on April 28th/29th, remains identified around May 21, but police from VA did not get up to NJ to begin investigation until June 1 or so. It's not as if the police got into her townhouse the day after the murder, or even the week of the murder. More than a month had passed and any evidence was long gone. Melanie moved out on May 31. No one knows what she was wearing when she killed him 4 weeks before and we don't know if he was clothed when he was shot. We know that he was found wearing only underwear.

The lease said you must leave the unit in broom clean condition. That means to sweep up and don't leave your garbage behind. You don't even have to vaccuum. You DO NOT have to clean the bathrooms at all, and you absolutely DO NOT have to do such a perfect job that you need to enlist the aid of a friend to help scrub your master bath with clorox and cleansers wearing latex gloves. You DO NOT have to repaint. You DO NOT have to refinish the floors. You most certainly DO NOT have to remove all traces of human inhabitance.

I think it's important to put yourself in any normal woman's mindset at the time. Melanie's husband had "supposedly" walked out on the day they closed on their first house, she's notified on May 25 that his body has been found in 3 suitcases, she's a widow left to raise 2 children alone, and now she has to move in 6 days because her lease is up. The week that you are told that your husband has been shot, dismembered, and thrown into the Chesapeake Bay, do you think you would be doing all of this unneccessary cleaning, painting, and refinishing of floors when your lease specifically said YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO? I DON'T THINK SO! Not a normal woman.

Not a normal woman raising 2 special needs children. Not even a woman who supposedly wanted a divorce. No, a normal woman would be a basket case regardless of how she felt about the father of her children and she would be consumed with grief for those children, scared out of her wits wondering who could have done this and if she and the kids were in danger, and she would be busy speaking with police. A normal woman would be planning as dignified a funeral as possible, not lawyering up and giving the police false information- unless, of course, that woman had something to hide.


I enjoy reading your posts. Are you in the Law Field?

[Jack&Jill]

A tremendous amount of evidence was presented to the jury, despite Melanie's attempts to foil the investigation. The defense job was not to prove innocence, but to create REASONABLE doubt. It was the Prosecution's burden to prove guilt, and in my opinion they did a tremendous job, despite the smoke screens.

Once Melanie McGuire's appeals are exhausted or any possible accomplices are arrested and charged, the few remaining questions may be answered. The who, what, where, how and why have already been answered in spades by the piles of evidence and the twelve jury members who convicted MM. In my opinion, how many other people were involved in Melanie's plot and a few other details, may be answered at any time, or never.


I'm thinking you are right about accomplices in this murder. We think there was a fight because of the neighbor saying so, right? So do you think he left or do you think that the prosecutor was right about the location of the murder? She said she didn't have to prove where it took place. I just feel that the prosecutor's opinion of where it happened was quite weak. Possibly the accomplices took the incapacitated WM and shot him somewhere else. When you said he was found only in his underwear, that jogged my memory about the underwear being purple. That sounded questionable to me because what man wears purple underwear?

[dtviewer]

I'm thinking you are right about accomplices in this murder. We think there was a fight because of the neighbor saying so, right? So do you think he left or do you think that the prosecutor was right about the location of the murder? She said she didn't have to prove where it took place. I just feel that the prosecutor's opinion of where it happened was quite weak. Possibly the accomplices took the incapacitated WM and shot him somewhere else. When you said he was found only in his underwear, that jogged my memory about the underwear being purple. That sounded questionable to me because what man wears purple underwear?

The fight the neighbor testified to hearing was NOT on the night William disappeared.

Since no one ever saw William outside of the apartment after that day, and Melanie was caught on video hiding his car at a hotel over a hundred miles away at 2 o'clock or so in the morning, I would say poor William never left the house alive.

[Jack&Jill]

The fight the neighbor testified to hearing was NOT on the night William disappeared.

Since no one ever saw William outside of the apartment after that day, and Melanie was caught on video hiding his car at a hotel over a hundred miles away at 2 o'clock or so in the morning, I would say poor William never left the house alive.,



dtv,

I am confused it seems. I thought that there was a police officer or someone said that there was a fight on the night in question. Why would the judge let that testimony come in when it didn't pertain to the night in question? It just appeared to me that the officer was talking about the night that MM claimed she fought with WM and then WM left or so she said. I don't see why MM would lie about the fight. It sounds like the murder had been in the planning stages anyway. Did she think it would sound better that they had fought? What makes you think it was at a previous date or don't you think it ever happened?

I think the mob letter was sent to confuse the people working on the case. It is surprising that MM would think that the mob letter would really help her. I don't blame the jury for not convicting her on that charge because they had already convicted her on the big issues.

[totallyBARD]

.... So do you think he left or do you think that the prosecutor was right about the location of the murder? She said she didn't have to prove where it took place. I just feel that the prosecutor's opinion of where it happened was quite weak. Possibly the accomplices took the incapacitated WM and shot him somewhere else....

Prosecutor Patty Prezioso presented actual strong EVIDENCE of WHERE the murder took place. The contents of the suitcase, the condition of the crime scene, and MM's wild stories, were fact, not fiction. Prezioso simply untangled the web of deception and the evidence practically presented itself.

That William was incapacitated before he was shot was obvious. And there was no reason for Melanie to shoot him elsewhere. It was so much easier, in a townhouse complex where people move in and out all the time, to fit a dead body into 3 suitcases and dump him where she thought he would never surface again.

Melanie told the whole country that she recorded her TV video diaries specifically "FOR HER CHILDREN," and that her last words to their father were, "F-U." I remember thinking, "What a true sicko!"

I'm glad Bill McGuire rose up to have the final word, so that the truth would be known to all.

[Jack&Jill]

You don't see why a killer would lie? :shrug:

MG,

I don't know when or if MM lied, but that is not what I am talking about. I am talking about the police officer who said the neighbor, Dawn Zue, or something like that, told the officer that there was a fight that night in question. Why do you say there was no fight when the policeman quoted the neighbor? What motive would the neighbor have to lie or the policeman lie?

[totallyBARD]

Not that it matters....but Naheed Mustafa, the McGuires' neighbors in the Woodbridge apartment complex where the prosecution contends the murder occurred, said she neither heard gunshots, nor the sounds of a fight on April 28, 2004, the last day William McGuire was seen alive.

The trial is over. Melanie McGuire is quite quilty of first degree murder based on tons of evidence.

If you still have doubts, read the book by John Glatt when it comes out. Except for her very few allies, Melanie has no support for what she has done.

Previous posters have mentioned repeatedly for a long time now that Melanie lied to anyone about anything. That was proven time and time again in court. If you keep ignoring this glaring evidence, you will forever be asking questions. :no:

[bugsy]

I've heard this lease spoken about many times. But I've never seen anyone post a link to it, so we can actually see what it says.

Anyone here hazard to guess if MM got her entire security deposit back on the townhouse? If not, I'd say the whole idea of it being in pristine, like new condition is out the window.

Anyone wonder about whether MM had to return the walls of her TH to a neutral color because she had painted them previously before moving out in an attempt to recover the full security deposit.

Anyone wonder why PP called the TH an end unit, touching only the Mustafa's, when it in fact touched the Mustafa's TH, 3 single floor apartments to the rear of the McGuire's TH, and 3 single floor apartments (including the Zhu's, off its rear corner)? The Mustafa's were certainly not the only people living around there. Curious the state wanted everyone to think so.

ps Hey everyone.

[Jack&Jill]

I've heard this lease spoken about many times. But I've never seen anyone post a link to it, so we can actually see what it says.

Anyone here hazard to guess if MM got her entire security deposit back on the townhouse? If not, I'd say the whole idea of it being in pristine, like new condition is out the window.

Anyone wonder about whether MM had to return the walls of her TH to a neutral color because she had painted them previously before moving out in an attempt to recover the full security deposit.

Anyone wonder why PP called the TH an end unit, touching only the Mustafa's, when it in fact touched the Mustafa's TH, 3 single floor apartments to the rear of the McGuire's TH, and 3 single floor apartments (including the Zhu's, off its rear corner)? The Mustafa's were certainly not the only people living around there. Curious the state wanted everyone to think so.

ps Hey everyone.


Bugsy,

Thank you for clearing that up. I remember the policeman talking about this Dawn Z.'s comment that she heard a fight. The other people were making me think I was stupid for thinking what I thought I heard. Yes, I agree MM may have lied sometime, but I don't know for sure and I don't think any of us do. We know that several on the stand were caught back tracking on previous testimony. I still don't think for positve that there was a pile of evidence that the murder happened in the townhouse. I think the prosecutor was just taking a wild guess. That is why I asked where else could she have done it? I'm thinking if the owners of that complex thought a murder took place there, they would not have rented it out again. Who would want to live where a murder took place? WM was identifed in less than a month from his death and I am sure MM would have been a suspect right away. I just can't see how she would have got every thing so clean that quickly.

[Jack&Jill]

It was mentioned earlier that MM had 2 special needs children and I seem to remember that the children were near 2-4 years old. I have no idea how many days MM had off from work, but when you consider working full time, taking care of two kids, you drastically cut down on your cleanig time. I just think PP missed into looking at other locations. Bugsy says there were several townhouses nearby so someone should have heard or seen something. So, why would PP distort the truth about the posistioning of the buildings? Does anyone know if she went to the McGuire's townhouse? If she didn't, how could she get things so mixed up?

Most 4 year olds are quite talkative, I would think that the child would have said something if the home was all messed up and I would think that the murder as portrayed by the prosecutor would have been a disaster.

[Jack&Jill]

As for what we know or don't know about this case? We know she was convicted of murder. We know she was convicted of dismemberment. We know she was convicted of perjury. We know she was convicted of gun charges. We know she was found guilty, guilty, guilty, and guilty. We know she is serving a life sentence. That's what we know.

But I expect a few will ignore the facts and continue to post their wishful thinking, unfounded speculation, or pure fabrication. Nothing odd about that.

"...Regrettably, history is replete with evil-doers... who also have their supporters...". Superior Court Judge Michael DeVesa


:shrug:


Does the judge at the McGuire trial have a brother named Michael or was this quoted from another trial?

[dtviewer]

[QUOTE=Jack&Jill;12103432],



dtv,

I am confused it seems. I thought that there was a police officer or someone said that there was a fight on the night in question. Why would the judge let that testimony come in when it didn't pertain to the night in question? It just appeared to me that the officer was talking about the night that MM claimed she fought with WM and then WM left or so she said. I don't see why MM would lie about the fight. It sounds like the murder had been in the planning stages anyway. Did she think it would sound better that they had fought? What makes you think it was at a previous date or don't you think it ever happened?

---snipped---QUOTE]


There was a fight testified to by the neighbor that happened on a different night.
Only Melanie claims there was a fight the night William disappeared.

[bugsy]

hi dt,

How many times do you think you will have to repeat the same factual information?

Some people only hear what they want to hear and believe only what they want to believe- regardless of the facts.

So true.

Just wait until the appeal is submitted, and I think we'll all be amazed by the amount of "guiltys" who start running around with their fingers in their ears, humming real loud.

[totallyBARD]

That's really funny Bugsy. But seriously, I think MGundy has an excellent point. No matter what is thought by the court of MM family opinion, the jury has spoken loudly and clearly in the Melanie McGuire trial.

No matter how case facts are changed here and on other message boards, Melanie was convicted of murdering and desecrating her husband by a jury of her peers.

Except for her very few family members and prison fans thinking otherwise, Melanie's goose is cooked for life.

I'm just hoping any accomplices will join her sooner than later. C'mon NJ law enforcement. I know accomplices can be arrested years later, but let's get on the ball here!

[Jack&Jill]

hi dt,

How many times do you think you will have to repeat the same factual information?

Some people only hear what they want to hear and believe only what they want to believe- regardless of the facts.



MG and possibly ToT,dtv,
You people seem really to believe the case as presented and I agree there are some questionable acts by MM, but I found where it was Darymple who quoted Dawn Zhu saying the fight was the night of the murder. Somebody is confused, I believe. Either the policeman got it wrong or you guys got it mixed up. But for now, I think I will believe Darymple got it right, so what is the big deal that the fight happened the night he was killed? I don't quite follow your reasoning to deny something that has been proven to have been testified in a court of law. The same court of law you claim got everything right. You see this townhouse thing with being the murder scene bothers me. I still think MM could have gotten him away from the home some how.

[totallyBARD]

You certainly are entitled to have an opinion. It's just that the trial is so over and the obstruction-diversions Melanie (and possible accomplices) created to keep LE off track, really do not matter anymore, except to charge anyone who helped in this murder plot & cover-up. The overwhelming evidence convicted Melanie and she is in jail for life.

This Bugsy seems to think she has a chance at an appeal for a new trial, and I'd love to hear any solid reasons for that. But other than discussing why anyone would think this case is appealable, there is really nothing to discuss except any possible accomplices getting charged, and any books or new TV shows coming out on the case.

The thread is about NEW news, not Melanie-Minutia which distracts from the real facts of what she actually did.

[bugsy]

Care to share? :lol:

Now now, you're just going to have to wait and see.

Numerous appealable issues.

Patience:-)

First the state needs to get them the last few missing transcripts. That's why that 45 day window to appeal hasn't started yet after a year plus.

[bugsy]

My opinions are based mostly on trial testimony, personal experience with people in general, and the media, although I noted that one media source might sometimes have had a different slant than another media source regarding things discussed at the trial.

Note: Although Tacopina described Melanie on a TV show as practically a midget on TV and he described Bill McGuire as VERY tall and heavy, neither was the truth if you check media-researched records. If you check out Melanie's physical stats upon entering prison, she is neither short or anything close to a 90 pound weakling. Being of average size and weight and using good body mechanics, she could easily have done what she did. Could she have had help any/every step of the way, from the planning through all the obstruction? I personally think so.

Could one of her problems have been that it wasn't so much she was unhappily married (their closest friends stated they looked very happy) .... but could she have had a few screws loose and needed to have as many already-attached men as possible for reasons only a good psychiatrist can determine? Was Bill McGuire her only murder victim? Was she a nympho as a young teen? Was lying second nature to her even as a young child? Did her parents know about any problems and if so, did they ever get help for her? There are so many questions about why depraved people like Melanie become like they are. Is it nature? Is it nurture? Is it both?

Go through the trial testimony again and read the Glatt book when it comes out Dec 2.


You are using MM's weight from July(?) 2007 to argue what her weight would have been in April of 2004?

That seems a bit off. She weighed much much less at the time of WM's murder. To say otherwise is intellectually dishonest.

[totallyBARD]

You are using MM's weight from July(?) 2007 to argue what her weight would have been in April of 2004?

That seems a bit off. She weighed much much less at the time of WM's murder. To say otherwise is intellectually dishonest.

It's way more than "a bit off." Actually, Melanie's height and weight were normal for the average sized female. In no way was she TINY, as the defense was trying to portray as a defensive strategy.

In no way was Bill McGuire a 6ft 4in giant and weighing 225+ pounds, as was the strategy employed to make it seem like a midget had carved up a giant.

When you add to the mix that Melanie may have had people assisting her with her plans to get Bill McGuire out of the way and cover up the crime, that adds a lot more weight to the situation. Literally.

Like I said, it's water over the bridge anyway. The trial is so over. And in my opinion the appeal will be ever so baseless, and therefore fruitless.

[Jack&Jill]

You certainly are entitled to have an opinion. It's just that the trial is so over and the obstruction-diversions Melanie (and possible accomplices) created to keep LE off track, really do not matter anymore, except to charge anyone who helped in this murder plot & cover-up. The overwhelming evidence convicted Melanie and she is in jail for life.

This Bugsy seems to think she has a chance at an appeal for a new trial, and I'd love to hear any solid reasons for that. But other than discussing why anyone would think this case is appealable, there is really nothing to discuss except any possible accomplices getting charged, and any books or new TV shows coming out on the case.

The thread is about NEW news, not Melanie-Minutia which distracts from the real facts of what she actually did.


ToB,

I wish we had some new news, but for right now all we have is our own viewpoints, memeory, and what sources are left on the web. I also would like to hear about the solid reasons Bugsy is talking about, but we will all have to wait and see what happens. I have already told you that I believe MM is responsible, but I don't think she did it in the townhouse as PP said. If it wasn't done there, where? Brad Miller may have helped, IMO. But then, where were the children?

I don't know why her weight is such a big deal anyway. She looked really tiny in the arrest photos, so what? You people say she was heavy at the time of the murder and say there is no fight the night of the murder, but there are glaring facts that prove differently. Tiny women can still be muscular.


Did the police ever figure out if it was nail polish in with WM's body? If it wasn't nail polish, what was it? I would love to see this woman get a new trial because I don't think we know the true story. I hope John Glatt's book is informative. He probably will do a better job than of explaining than the trial.

[totallyBARD]

ToB,

I wish we had some new news, but for right now all we have is our own viewpoints, memeory, and what sources are left on the web. I also would like to hear about the solid reasons Bugsy is talking about, but we will all have to wait and see what happens. I have already told you that I believe MM is responsible, but I don't think she did it in the townhouse as PP said. If it wasn't done there, where? Brad Miller may have helped, IMO. But then, where were the children?

I don't know why her weight is such a big deal anyway. She looked really tiny in the arrest photos, so what? You people say she was heavy at the time of the murder and say there is no fight the night of the murder, but there are glaring facts that prove differently. Tiny women can still be muscular.


Did the police ever figure out if it was nail polish in with WM's body? If it wasn't nail polish, what was it? I would love to see this woman get a new trial because I don't think we know the true story. I hope John Glatt's book is informative. He probably will do a better job than of explaining than the trial.

Regarding Melanie's appeal, I honestly do not have to wait to know the outcome. Denied is definite in my book. Lawyers like to rant on that this strategy will work or that motion will work. But as Melanie saw, when you really ARE guilty of murder, no amount of legal mumbo jumbo is going to change that.

Please refer to the exact post which stated that Melanie was HEAVY when she committed the murder. Unlike the baloney fed to the jury that she was physically incapable of murder due to being so tiny, and Bill was supposedly a giant, Melanie was NORMAL size and weight. Not at all tiny. And Bill was FAR from being a giant.

I am looking forward to John Glatt's book with great interest. I'm hoping he thoroughly researched Melanie and her background. I agree there is far more to her than meets the eye.

[Jack&Jill]

KR,

Interesting what you have to say about online gambling. I do not understand the 3rd party pocessors you talk about. Please explain more completely. Are these processors in other countries and how do you even find these gambling sites? The computer person found that WM had been to one in the UK right?

Even if WM was doing this online thing secretively, other than WM getting money illegally which possibly happened, I still think that MM murdered her husband. She just got tired of his losing so much money and she was in love with another man. I don't agree with the prosecutor that the murder happened at the McGuire's, but she had other places it could have been committed. So, you probably think that someone WM owed money to him shot him? Well, I don't!

[Jack&Jill]

Did anyone ever get an autopsy report on WM . such as stomach contents ...it would be interesting to see the full autopsy report of WM .I know the immersion in the water is a souce for uncertanty ,but again tosee the full report .........also isn't it interesting that it was said the body was bled and that the blood went down the drain at the townhouse ,yet there was not a trace of this found even when the internal pipes were disected from the townhouse ..........when decomposed DNA can be differentiated ,how is it that nothing was found ,absolutely impossible in todays science.


Post morbid lividity can show how a body was positioned at time of death and many other tellings factors ,such as if it had been moved shortly after death .once the cardiovascular sytem shuts down as it does at time of death the pooling , lividity of blood leaves telling signs , if in fact the body was bled out as was hypothasized ....this would had to have been researched beforehand and if MM supposedly was the one who reserached CH on the home computer where is the computer evidiedence that she also researched post morbid lividity ?


KR,

Plesae don't try to tell me that MM being a nurse wouldn't know about post morbid lividity. She knew exactly what she was doing when she killed WM and her unknown helpers. The only thing I do agree with you is that she didn't do it at the townhouse. She very easily could have someone come watch the kids that night and she took him somewhere and killed him. I just think with Miller having a saw that had a blade missing was a little too coincidental. Don't forget that there was skin off from her shoes in the car! Why did she tell Miller the night of the closing, "everthing will be OK?" Your idea that these people WM owed money to, were the killers, just doesn't have enough evidence to support it.

[Topaz]

You should have testified at the trial, if this evidence exists!

In fact NOT ONE piece of financial evidence was presented by the
defense.

The site in UK was a gaming site (not Gambling site)...gaming as in video games. It had been closed since the murder and before the trial.

I too am looking forward to the book. I have read several Glatt books.
This summer one very horrible one --Cries in the Desert. That one would give anyone the heebeejeebees!
But in my opinion his books tend to be short and to the point.
Most of Ann Rule's are more detailed. A true crime book depends on the data shared with the significant others involved in the crime..victim's family and perp's family, and friends, coworkers.
What we have seen with MM is that her circle is a pretty tight ship.
Many lies, many secrets etc. I think this crime is pretty obvious. What seems to keep interest for so long are the LIES, the machinations, the coverups. Even lying to the judge to get the TRO was unnecessary. But MM had to do that to create her alibi, and deflect motive. There was no other reason to lie to that judge. (that was a very big telling factor to me regarding post crime behavior).

Easy pass records, forged prescriptions, moving the car, lying about the two way cab ride, the blanket from the clinic, the stay in the motel, the babysitting of the kids, the stupid letters to LE (one even with the car keys in it), the batteries in the lock box to imply the gun was still in there (would WM put batteries in there if he took the gun?), the emails to MM's male friend which were really over the top, and purchase of the gun with fake ID. Lying about the suitcases, admitting to being on that bridge at the time the suitcases were dropped, the RiteAid video, the tapes talking to Lover Boy, telling him to not worry, the tapes with MM's mother, the pieces of flesh found in WM's car --when she admitted to moving it there, WM's comp card found in StepDaddy's sock drawer during a warrant search, the garbage bag data, the horribly soiled underwear MM forgot and left in the bottom of her closet, the computer searches for undetectable poisons, chloral hydrate, murder.
(and I am sure I am missing something...there was sooooo much.)
edit-- the ultraclean apartment, with DNA removed from all members of the family!
Her taped videos were the most chilling thing I have ever seen!
I can't believe she thought they would be helpful in any way...but then that is how narcissists are...they often have no clue. :punch:

Yeah, sure, someone else did it! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :lol:

[Jack&Jill]

DTV,

I do remember about KR talking about WM's sister being involved in the murder somehow, but I cannot remember what was said about the family business. Also, wasn't KR saying about a house that CL owned being demolished? Where that fit into her equation, I just can't remember. I remember KR blasting CL for writing the doodle list and what she and WM were planning on doing to her sister. Why MM had that slip of paper always seemed odd to me. Was she saving it for a reason or was it just because it got mixed up in other papers?

[Jack&Jill]

[QUOTE=dtviewer;12130862]You remember correctly.
KR said Wm was killed because of the family pharmacy dealing illegal drugs. Of course not a single fact to back it up.
KR said Wm's sister killed him. Of course not a single fact to back it up.
KR said the house was demolished right after the murder. Of course not a single fact to back it up.
KR said the pharmacy was closed right after the murder. Of course not a single fact to back it up.

Seems KR can spin some tale tales. Too bad they have nothing to do with the evidence.

My thoughts about the doodle paper? Mel saved it because she hated Wm and Cindy. She seems vindictive to me and I think she thought it could be used later. I dont think it was saved with the murder in mind though.
(but it also could have just been mixed in with papers as you say)[/QUOTE

DTV,

Thanks for the refresher. Wasn't there testimony at the trial that CL and MM got along well together prior to the murder? Didn't CL babysit with the children when the McGuire's met the Rices for the weekend at the casino? It appeared to me that WM and CL were very close as they talked frequently. I am sure the rift got huge when MM was made a suspect for the murder. I have often wondered whatever happened to the McGuire's children. They are truly the real victims.

[Topaz]

You think I want to be a hero , please..............I started here just like the rest of you ,simply intrigued with current cases in trial......thats it .


I don't want to be a hero at all. I just see so many things that don't ADD up and there is always 2 sides to everything , since MM I feel was set up for the murder didn't stand a chance ,because she never saw it coming I and many others have specualted on what could very well have been involved ............none of this effects any of us personally right ?


But can hardly wait for the appeals ,as I for one would love to see the case retried ..............since we have all been bumping heads for so long.;)

The MAJOR reason things don't ADD UP is that MM is a massive liar and manipulator. That is the only thing that keeps this subject alive!

I will be DEAD before this case is retried. And maybe MM will be dead too!

[dtviewer]

The MAJOR reason things don't ADD UP is that MM is a massive liar and manipulator. That is the only thing that keeps this subject alive!

I will be DEAD before this case is retried. And maybe MM will be dead too!


This case will never be retried.
Melanie is right where she will always be.

[Jack&Jill]

Oh ,I forgot to add my thoughts on WHY MM had the note Cindy wrote her brother William on ways to get under their sisters skin.

( if you want to call inticing a little sister who had been sexually molested by their own father and jabbing her as getting back at her for annoying them OKAY ..and there was more ,but thats enough don't ya think)


I think MM was aware of Cindy's corrupt mind and way of thinking and possibly held onto this note in rememberence ,not thinking she would ever use this note ,but just as a reminder of the whole familys corruptness , because thats all that note speaks to me is utter corruptness.

KR,

What are you talking about that MM was aware of CL's corrupt mind? There was no testimony that they did not get along prior to the murder. You are way off on a tangent IMO. To say that MM was on to the whole family's corruptness is crazy. MM used CL as a babysitter, I think, so if she thoght she was corrupt, MM wouldn't have left her children with CL. That doodle note was a whole lot of nothing, just siblings goofing around.

[totallyBARD]

You think I want to be a hero , please....................{Melanie} never saw it coming.

But can hardly wait for the appeals ,as I for one would love to see the case retried ..............since we have all been bumping heads for so long.;)


I think Melanie never saw it coming either. By "it," I mean she never saw those suitcases popping up, which put police squarely on her trail, since so much evidence was contained in those suitcases alone. The rest of the evidence was where Melanie hung herself with many lies and obstructions.

I feel John Glatt's upcoming chronology of Melanie's criminal activities will be lengthy, thorough and a confirmation of the jury's conviction that Melanie was beyond evil.

I strongly believe there will be no retrial. Despite efforts by some to fictionalize MM's trial, the truth will prevail and Melanie will serve life in prison for murdering her husband.

[Jack&Jill]

I think Melanie never saw it coming either. By "it," I mean she never saw those suitcases popping up, which put police squarely on her trail, since so much evidence was contained in those suitcases alone. The rest of the evidence was where Melanie hung herself with many lies and obstructions.

I feel John Glatt's upcoming chronology of Melanie's criminal activities will be lengthy, thorough and a confirmation of the jury's conviction that Melanie was beyond evil.

I strongly believe there will be no retrial. Despite efforts by some to fictionalize MM's trial, the truth will prevail and Melanie will serve life in prison for murdering her husband.

TOB,

I hate to say it, but I would love to see this trial retried. This case had a little bit of everything, sex, lies and videotape. It appears to me that there may have been something that the judge didn't rule correctly on. Who knows for sure when there were so many issues he had to rule on. I am not a lawyer so I have no idea if there will be a new trial, but it is like watching a movie more than once, I would watch this again.

[4Life]

This case will never be retried.
Melanie is right where she will always be.

You're right!

She will never get a re-trial.
The "issues" on the appeal are laughable.
Melanie is not very confident she will get a new trial. Last month she gave POA(Power of Attorney) to 5 people.

1 Her mother
2 Her stepfather
3 Her younger Brother
4 Selene (her friend that helped her clean the TH after the murder)
5 Alex (Selenes' husband who told LE that William was shot. Wonder how he knew that,no information on how William was killed was released to anyone at the that time)

Why give Selene and Alex POA?

[Jack&Jill]

You're right!

She will never get a re-trial.
The "issues" on the appeal are laughable.
Melanie is not very confident she will get a new trial. Last month she gave POA(Power of Attorney) to 5 people.

1 Her mother
2 Her stepfather
3 Her younger Brother
4 Selene (her friend that helped her clean the TH after the murder)
5 Alex (Selenes' husband who told LE that William was shot. Wonder how he knew that,no information on how William was killed was released to anyone at the that time)

Why give Selene and Alex POA?


4L,

Why would that many people need to have POA?? POA has to be done by an attorney, so why on earth do you expect us to believe this? And what does this have to do with this case or her future appeal? You have totally lost me on this crazy info. MM would not have any money,
so why would she need this many to have POA?? Did her house ever sell?

[4Life]

4L,

Why would that many people need to have POA?? POA has to be done by an attorney, so why on earth do you expect us to believe this? And what does this have to do with this case or her future appeal? You have totally lost me on this crazy info. MM would not have any money,
so why would she need this many to have POA?? Did her house ever sell?
POA can be granted to anyone.
You don't have to believe anything, but it is the truth. I found out the week it happened. I was informed that as of a week ago it became public record, so you can look it up yourself.
Why so many? That is something on Melanie and her family could answer.
Her house is gone.

What does it have to do with the cases you ask?
Melanies helper in cleaning up the murder site and the husband ( the one who knew WM was shot but no one else did) have been granted POA. Very odd

[Topaz]

You're right!

She will never get a re-trial.
The "issues" on the appeal are laughable.
Melanie is not very confident she will get a new trial. Last month she gave POA(Power of Attorney) to 5 people.

1 Her mother
2 Her stepfather
3 Her younger Brother
4 Selene (her friend that helped her clean the TH after the murder)
5 Alex (Selenes' husband who told LE that William was shot. Wonder how he knew that,no information on how William was killed was released to anyone at the that time)

Why give Selene and Alex POA?

Please point us to where you found this new info. I looked and keyworded several searches and found nothing.

That list does look like an accomplice list however!
One has to wonder why 5 of them?
Does she have secrets (hidden funds/equity) hidden from her family?

[Topaz]

POA can be granted to anyone.
You don't have to believe anything, but it is the truth. I found out the week it happened. I was informed that as of a week ago it became public record, so you can look it up yourself.
Why so many? That is something on Melanie and her family could answer.
Her house is gone.

What does it have to do with the cases you ask?
Melanies helper in cleaning up the murder site and the husband ( the one who knew WM was shot but no one else did) have been granted POA. Very odd

I sent you one of those new visitor messages...I hope I did it right?
In case I flubbed it up, Thank you for the link. I will be saving it for sure!
;) I didn't know about those new features in our upgrade. ;)

[4Life]

I sent you one of those new visitor messages...I hope I did it right?
In case I flubbed it up, Thank you for the link. I will be saving it for sure!
;) I didn't know about those new features in our upgrade. ;)

Very interesting, isn't it?
Why so many Alts? I see she added two more, that now makes 7 people.
I have never seen a POA with so many Alts.

[Topaz]

for someone who claims to be bankrupt?
Very hinky.

did you notice the new address for Selene and husband?
I found that interesting as well.

I have to clean out my mail box... it is full now.

(but our Melanie...always full of surprises?)

[Jack&Jill]

Very interesting, isn't it?
Why so many Alts? I see she added two more, that now makes 7 people.
I have never seen a POA with so many Alts.

Topaz,

I just don't understand the purpose of so many POA's being needed, even if there were accomplices. What good is a POA for MM going to do for an accomplice? There are only certain places a POA can be used and I didn't think that they were public record. Could you give the link where you found the information?

Thanks.

[Topaz]

is in the NJ public records search.

Suffice it to say, that if you had several close in your tight (illegal) circle and didn't know who might be arrested at any time...you'd need
as many POAs as possible.

At this late time, I wonder tho. The two new names....who are they?
I'll be searching them tomorrow. I do know when I searched in the spring the owner of the alternate website that supported MM's innocence, it
pinged back to Penn. (I think it was a cousin).

What is a POA for? Well, when I was pregnant years ago, I lost the use of my hands-- severe carpal tunnel. I could not sign checks or manage my money (I have some separate $$ from our joint accounts). So I had to have my husband designated as POA...it was easy to get. Also I could not sign hospital forms/releases, for my surgery.

If a person is incompetent, a POA is handy. It is also handy for medical approval. If MM were to be injured in the prison, someone would have to sign for her when needed. But 7 people?

Makes one wonder? You'd think Mother, Father, Brother would be enough? Two of the POAs are in NY now, and two in S. Carolina. DUH?

Maybe this will be in John Glatt's book?

The whole thing bears thinking about. Maybe she is planning on suing people?

[Jack&Jill]

is in the NJ public records search.

Suffice it to say, that if you had several close in your tight (illegal) circle and didn't know who might be arrested at any time...you'd need
as many POAs as possible.

At this late time, I wonder tho. The two new names....who are they?
I'll be searching them tomorrow. I do know when I searched in the spring the owner of the alternate website that supported MM's innocence, it
pinged back to Penn. (I think it was a cousin).

What is a POA for? Well, when I was pregnant years ago, I lost the use of my hands-- severe carpal tunnel. I could not sign checks or manage my money (I have some separate $$ from our joint accounts). So I had to have my husband designated as POA...it was easy to get. Also I could not sign hospital forms/releases, for my surgery.

If a person is incompetent, a POA is handy. It is also handy for medical approval. If MM were to be injured in the prison, someone would have to sign for her when needed. But 7 people?

Makes one wonder? You'd think Mother, Father, Brother would be enough? Two of the POAs are in NY now, and two in S. Carolina. DUH?

Maybe this will be in John Glatt's book?

The whole thing bears thinking about. Maybe she is planning on suing people?


Topaz,

Thanks for the info. I knew about a POA as several years I had one made for my mom and dad. But it only worked for things like you mentioned. But what would a POA do if MM was suing someone? We need a lawyer on here, I think.

[Topaz]

can use a POA. YOu do not need an attorney. I got the forms from the bank, if I recall.

Any contracts, money, medical, permissions, that require a signature.
Being in prison has to be extremely limiting.

I just find so many listed as extremely ODD. Like "overkill", but then, that is how MM functioned.

[4Life]

can use a POA. YOu do not need an attorney. I got the forms from the bank, if I recall.

Any contracts, money, medical, permissions, that require a signature.
Being in prison has to be extremely limiting.

I just find so many listed as extremely ODD. Like "overkill", but then, that is how MM functioned.
It is extremely odd.
Like I said earlier, I have never seen a POA with 7 people. I have seen 2 and MAYBE 3, but never 7

Did you notice the dates?

[dtviewer]

TOB,

I hate to say it, but I would love to see this trial retried. This case had a little bit of everything, sex, lies and videotape. It appears to me that there may have been something that the judge didn't rule correctly on. Who knows for sure when there were so many issues he had to rule on. I am not a lawyer so I have no idea if there will be a new trial, but it is like watching a movie more than once, I would watch this again.

It would take much more then just an incorrect ruling for a new trial to be granted. It would have to be shown that the incorrect ruling caused a miscarriage of justice.

I sure dont see that happening in this case at all.

[Topaz]

I see that date:
Oct 04 !!

Filed with NJ in 8-08.

This may have something to do with her bankruptcy filing.
Most POAs are not filed with the state. But once you get into
taxes, and other monetary things (liens) it might have to be filed
this way. But I am not sure.
If you look at the deed for 8-08-- you see MM's name there
on the Brick house and both Mom and Dad share the ownership! Same date as the POA. So I think it has to
do with legal notification of property sales etc.

My POA was done at the bank and notarized and my husband then
had the form to show when requested. I don't think it was posted anywhere publically.

Her first arrest was in June 05?
http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/releases/2005/mcguire_0602.htm

I believe the 2nd arrest came AFTER the DA received those fake letters and MM's bond was increased to over a million?

So I suspect her attorney at the beginning got that POA started
back then "just in case"?

[Jack&Jill]

I see that date:
Oct 04 !!

Filed with NJ in 8-08.

This may have something to do with her bankruptcy filing.
Most POAs are not filed with the state. But once you get into
taxes, and other monetary things (liens) it might have to be filed
this way. But I am not sure.
If you look at the deed for 8-08-- you see MM's name there
on the Brick house and both Mom and Dad share the ownership! Same date as the POA. So I think it has to
do with legal notification of property sales etc.

My POA was done at the bank and notarized and my husband then
had the form to show when requested. I don't think it was posted anywhere publically.

Her first arrest was in June 05?
http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/releases/2005/mcguire_0602.htm

I believe the 2nd arrest came AFTER the DA received those fake letters and MM's bond was increased to over a million?

So I suspect her attorney at the beginning got that POA started
back then "just in case"?

Topaz,
Thanks for updates. So, the POA's were just taken out this past Aug. correct? I still don't understand the laundry list of POA's though. I couldn't find the link to the POA's. Would you mind posting it for us?
Thanks for your info.

[Topaz]

on the document shown on the NJ public records site, is
a 2004 date. That appears to be when it was signed/taken out.

The date stamped on the document along the right border is
8-08 !

[4Life]

MM must have been nervous that her arrest might be imminent.

I would say so.
The murder happened in April 2004
Melanie started the paper work for the POA in Oct 2004
She was not arrested until June 2005
POA filed Aug 2008
7 people on POA

[Jack&Jill]

I would say so.
The murder happened in April 2004
Melanie started the paper work for the POA in Oct 2004
She was not arrested until June 2005
POA filed Aug 2008
7 people on POA


To all:

I do think this was just a normal thing for MM to do in that MM was a single parent and didn't know what was coming up criminally.

[Topaz]

To all:

I do think this was just a normal thing for MM to do in that MM was a single parent and didn't know what was coming up criminally.

It was "normal" and suggested by her attorney at the time. He would have known, that she was a "person of interest".

However, putting 7 people on that Power of Attorney, is really strange.
To me it suggests that she may have felt that certain persons would not be available in the near future for some reason.

I wonder if LE knew of this list? Since it hadn't been publically filed, I suppose not.

[4Life]

It was "normal" and suggested by her attorney at the time. He would have known, that she was a "person of interest".

However, putting 7 people on that Power of Attorney, is really strange.
To me it suggests that she may have felt that certain persons would not be available in the near future for some reason.

I wonder if LE knew of this list? Since it hadn't been publically filed, I suppose not.

I agree with you and you made a good point.

5 out of the 7 people on that POA were/are suspects
It also suggests to me that MM felt/fells that a number of those people would not be available in the future.............Mom,Stepdad,Selene and Alex

[Jack&Jill]

I agree with you and you made a good point.

5 out of the 7 people on that POA were/are suspects
It also suggests to me that MM felt/fells that a number of those people would not be available in the future.............Mom,Stepdad,Selene and Alex


4L,

The POA would not protect the other suspects and why would MM give POA to people that might be prosecuted and then could do none of her business? I think she must have had a long list of people just in case something came up and whoever was the closest to what needed to be done could do it. I just don't think we can read anything into this paperwork being filed in 8-08.

[4Life]

4L,

The POA would not protect the other suspects and why would MM give POA to people that might be prosecuted and then could do none of her business? I think she must have had a long list of people just in case something came up and whoever was the closest to what needed to be done could do it. I just don't think we can read anything into this paperwork being filed in 8-08.

I never said the POA would protect suspects.
She didn't know who would be prosecuted and wouldn't be. She didn't even know she would be.
You say she has the long list in case something came up and whoever is closest can take care of it?
2 in NJ
3 in NY
2 in S Carolina

MM is born and raised in NJ and all her business was in NJ

[Topaz]

4L,

The POA would not protect the other suspects and why would MM give POA to people that might be prosecuted and then could do none of her business? I think she must have had a long list of people just in case something came up and whoever was the closest to what needed to be done could do it. I just don't think we can read anything into this paperwork being filed in 8-08.

I am sorry, I don't follow this reasoning ..
1) a POA does not protect anyone. It just allows for legal signing of documents when the original person is unable to sign.

2) 4 of the 7 are not CLOSE at all---they live in other states.
In fact it could be a physical hardship for them to execute their POA status. They would have to rely on phone and delivery services.
4 of them are not blood relatives, even. Sometimes the attorney becomes a POA, but that was not chosen in this case for some reason.

3) I think the paperwork was filed publically to deal with the disposition of the Brick property. If that had not existed, and MM was living in an apartment instead, then we would possibly never see this document publically at all.

4) if you look closely at the NJ public records, you will find a 2 million
mortage insurance policy listed there too. I haven't investigated that yet, but the property insured was $300,000 according to the deed.
This might just be a blanket policy that reads the same for everyone.
But still she did have mortage insurance on Brick. I don't think she could claim it however, since her Mom and Dad are co-owners, and would be responsible for the payments, as well.

[Jack&Jill]

I am sorry, I don't follow this reasoning ..
1) a POA does not protect anyone. It just allows for legal signing of documents when the original person is unable to sign.

2) 4 of the 7 are not CLOSE at all---they live in other states.
In fact it could be a physical hardship for them to execute their POA status. They would have to rely on phone and delivery services.
4 of them are not blood relatives, even. Sometimes the attorney becomes a POA, but that was not chosen in this case for some reason.

3) I think the paperwork was filed publically to deal with the disposition of the Brick property. If that had not existed, and MM was living in an apartment instead, then we would possibly never see this document publically at all.

4) if you look closely at the NJ public records, you will find a 2 million
mortage insurance policy listed there too. I haven't investigated that yet, but the property insured was $300,000 according to the deed.
This might just be a blanket policy that reads the same for everyone.
But still she did have mortage insurance on Brick. I don't think she could claim it however, since her Mom and Dad are co-owners, and would be responsible for the payments, as well.

Topaz,

Thanks again for more clarification. This is just another odd thing happening in an already complicated case. Let us know if you learn any more details, very interesting.....

[Jack&Jill]

can use a POA. YOu do not need an attorney. I got the forms from the bank, if I recall.

Any contracts, money, medical, permissions, that require a signature.
Being in prison has to be extremely limiting.

I just find so many listed as extremely ODD. Like "overkill", but then, that is how MM functioned.


Topaz,

You said that is "how MM functioned". Did you know her?

[Topaz]

the whole trial. Listened to her on tapes presented.

I watched her interviews on TV. (her videos done in her BEDROOM were totally spooky)

I listened to her behaviors as testified to by many witnesses.

She is complex, controlling, and self absorbed.
She convicted herself IMO. She lied to a judge in order to get a TRO...and was convicted of perjury. Her lie was in WRITING!
I believe she knew her husband was dead (she arranged that fact) yet found it necessary to LIE to try and create an alibi for herself. That perjury was a very bad decision..and part of her functioning self.
(not to mention the secret liasons with Dr. Miller for YEARS)

I am eager to read John Glatt's book soon. I hope there will be even more background on her in it.

In many ways I know her better than some of my neighbors (who probably still keep THEIR secrets secret). :rolleyes:

[totallyBARD]

It was "normal" and suggested by her attorney at the time. He would have known, that she was a "person of interest".

However, putting 7 people on that Power of Attorney, is really strange.
To me it suggests that she may have felt that certain persons would not be available in the near future for some reason.

I wonder if LE knew of this list? Since it hadn't been publically filed, I suppose not.

I, too, think it is very strange that MM would put so many people on that POA list, of whom a number lawyered up. I notice none of her closest confidantes (five people on the list) got on the witness stand to testify in Melanie's behalf or alibi her for anything.

I also thought it extremely odd that mom, stepdad, and Selene stuck together like glue when it came to bashing the murder victim on TV, but none of them would put their statements to the test on the witness stand, where TRUTH mattered. Could they have been afraid of having to answer questions which might later come back to haunt them?

Their allegations about William McGuire turned out to be untrue. Certain people seemed to have gotten together and decided how to trash William publicly and uniformly. They all said the same thing Melanie said, which no one outside that click verified. In fact, people outside that group testified the couple always looked happy together. If any REAL evidence existed which would have substantiated abuse or Bill in deep debt, Melanie's defense would have presented the absolute proof for days on end.

Melanie didn't even go to the local Emergency room to have pictures taken with the alleged dryer sheet hanging out of her mouth. Instead she ran to AC to continue with her murderous obstruction plans.

Then she ran and perjured herself ..... along with a lot of other "interesting" activities.....And let's not forget her secret double life.

I can't wait to read the book.

[Jack&Jill]

I, too, think it is very strange that MM would put so many people on that POA list, of whom a number lawyered up. I notice none of her closest confidantes (five people on the list) got on the witness stand to testify in Melanie's behalf or alibi her for anything.

I also thought it extremely odd that mom, stepdad, and Selene stuck together like glue when it came to bashing the murder victim on TV, but none of them would put their statements to the test on the witness stand, where TRUTH mattered. Could they have been afraid of having to answer questions which might later come back to haunt them?

Their allegations about William McGuire turned out to be untrue. Certain people seemed to have gotten together and decided how to trash William publicly and uniformly. They all said the same thing Melanie said, which no one outside that click verified. In fact, people outside that group testified the couple always looked happy together. If any REAL evidence existed which would have substantiated abuse or Bill in deep debt, Melanie's defense would have presented the absolute proof for days on end.

Melanie didn't even go to the local Emergency room to have pictures taken with the alleged dryer sheet hanging out of her mouth. Instead she ran to AC to continue with her murderous obstruction plans.

Then she ran and perjured herself ..... along with a lot of other "interesting" activities.....And let's not forget her secret double life.

I can't wait to read the book.


ToB,

I watched all of the TV shows, but I don't remember that much bad being said about WM. I am certain MM said they fought and did someone say, "he wasn't a very nice person"? I see no reason for MM to go to the emergency room if she wereen't heard so that is nothing unusual. But I really agree with you that so many POA's is strange. Couldn't the prosecutor made the parents and friends testify? Do you think MM mudered WM in AC?

[4Life]

ToB,

I watched all of the TV shows, but I don't remember that much bad being said about WM. I am certain MM said they fought and did someone say, "he wasn't a very nice person"? I see no reason for MM to go to the emergency room if she wereen't heard so that is nothing unusual. But I really agree with you that so many POA's is strange. Melanies Mother,Stepfather and her best friend Selene all bashed WM on TV

Ok, MM didn't have to go to the emergency room if she was not hurt, but if she was so afraid of him like she said, why didn't she call 911?
Instead:
1 she said she drove over 100 miles to AC to look for and find his car to move it.
2 Couldn't find her own car after SHE parked it, so she took a cab home(that was her 1st story)
3 Was too tired to drive home, so she took a cab home(2nd story)
4 Took a cab back to AC the next day to look for her car

Mind you her parents live approx. 20 mins from AC so why didn't she call them or take the cab to their house?

She admitted to being in AC that night, so where were the kids during this time?
Did she pack them up in the car at 3am and drive them all the way down to AC with her or did she just leave them in the TH alone?
Maybe mommy and daddy or Selene were already at the TH?

[Topaz]

April 28th 2004
Chloral hydrate picked up in the morning.
Close on house
had calls with Dr. Miller, saying things will be fixed
Bill last phone call around 7pm

April 29th
2:30 am alleged fight
6:am alleged last call from WM's blackberry to call in sick
Kids at day care in daytime, then taken to Parent's for babysitting
MM registers at 8pm at Red Roof inn, stays 3 days!

April 30th
just after midnight-- car dumped in AC
WM dead by then, since his "flesh" was found on the floor of the car, which MM admitted to moving.

A more complete timeline can be found here, copied from a news report:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1089.0
Some of the actual news items are no longer available. (I could not find them).

I am sure the Glatt book will cover this timeline at least!

I recall that the children were with the grandparents. Dr. Miller did visit her at the Red Roof Inn at least once, he testified, and the kids were not there.

I don't think she would have shot WM with the kids present. That is why PP and LE think he was drugged. He was murdered after the kids were in daycare, and most of the people in the apartment complex had gone to work, on the 29th during the day. The car transport to AC was in the early hours of April 30th. She did not take the car the night of the alleged fight.

[totallyBARD]

My comment about MM going to the ER with the alleged dryer sheet in her mouth was totally facetious!!!!

Since she gave out different versions of that silly story to people including a judge and there is no evidence that it or ANY abuse actually happened, and MM is an infamous liar .....I was obviously poking fun at one of her more notorious stories.

If we are being serious, I believe there is no way MM would have shown up at an ER after she shot and cut up her husband, because the ER staff would have wondered why she might have been wearing bloody garments and acting oddly. Instead, she went to AC to start covering her tracks.

Personally, I believe Melanie McGuire had help with her crimes from at least a few people, which imo ties in with why they were not put on the witness stand by the defense, why they lawyered up, and why the investigation is still open. The Prosecution had no reason to put "HOSTILE witnesses" on the stand, and the defense had good reason to keep them off the stand so they would not be held liable for answers the Prosecution might ask them while they were under oath to tell the truth, the whole truth, and NOTHING but the truth. JMO

You raised a good point, 4Life, that if MM was TRULY afraid of Bill, she would have called 911. She CERTAINLY would never have bought him a gun. That is one of her ridiculous cover stories which no one but her confidantes believe.

It's obvious to me Bill was BLINDLY in love with her and imo believed years of MM's lies. That blindness allowed Melanie to plot his murder. Let's not forget that Melanie apparently helped other lovers to deceive their partners as well. She was a master of deception. I even wonder if Bill was her first murder victim.

[Satyagraha]

Oh, please , TOTAL .
Now she's a Serial Killer ?
September , 2008 .
I can't believe you guys are
still going 'round and 'round
about this .......

[4Life]

Yup, the case is being appealed.

The appeal, being handled by Baker Botts law firm, should be filed early fall (give or take of course).
:no:

You really need to stop believing what MMs stepfather tells you.
The "Firm" is not handling the appeal. ONE person from Botts his HELPING write up the appeal, Jamie Kilberg. IF IF MM gets a new trial, it will be argued by a STATE appointed lawyer.

[4Life]

:no: Please don't start listing things again as fact when they are not

How do you know the CH was never used?
It was testified that it was not tested for
The Vile only had a SMALL trace of CH left in it.

[Satyagraha]

So true.

Just wait until the appeal is submitted, and I think we'll all be amazed by the amount of "guiltys" who start running around with their fingers in their ears, humming real loud.
No, Bugsy, I hope for the best .
I hope for Justice . This case warrants a retrial because Patty Prez. arguments
were Swiss Cheese and to DOZENS of people (who can't ALL be idiots ) .:
the case was not proven Beyond a Reasonable Doubt .
I don't like any of the McGuire's lifestyle : the affairs , the gambling :
I just don't live like that .
But it doesn't add up to murder .
And it certainly doesn't add up to a pattern of murderS ; Total, reckless of
you to suggest it . I'm surprised at you . You usually don't stretch for a hypothetical like that .

[bugsy]

:no:

You really need to stop believing what MMs stepfather tells you.
The "Firm" is not handling the appeal. ONE person from Botts his HELPING write up the appeal, Jamie Kilberg. IF IF MM gets a new trial, it will be argued by a STATE appointed lawyer.

Not really sure what you're trying to get at here. My information on this matter does not come from MM's stepfather.

What makes you think it does?

There are multiple people at Baker Botts working on the case, Jamie Kilberg is just one of them.

I really don't understand the reasoning for this arguement... what makes it so important to you and others to repeatedly lie about Baker Botts part in the appeal.

Also, No one knows who will argue the new trial after the appeal is granted. It may be someone from the PD's office, it may be a private attorney. It's way to early to say for sure.

[GardenGirl]

I see there is no new news.
When will this appeal be filed?
I would have thought it would have been done by now if there was any gross and/or obvious miscarriage of justice noted.
I look forward to the book's coming out tho, maybe there will be a few new tidbits in there that we don't all ready know.

I wonder why ABC didn't put out more of the tapes? That would have been interesting.............

Hello to all, sorry I've not been around, have had a sick husband and all....

[bugsy]

I see there is no new news.
When will this appeal be filed?
I would have thought it would have been done by now if there was any gross and/or obvious miscarriage of justice noted.
I look forward to the book's coming out tho, maybe there will be a few new tidbits in there that we don't all ready know.

I wonder why ABC didn't put out more of the tapes? That would have been interesting.............

Hello to all, sorry I've not been around, have had a sick husband and all....

It will be filed as soon as they can.

One problem is they're still waiting to get some of the transcripts, and they won't file until they've been able to go over everything.

[Jack&Jill]

Case needs retried in a serious way ...........there is so much more to dispute ,so much , so very much more ,and hopefully this time around alot will be revealed..........,

KR,

There is one thing you and I agree on is that this case deserves to be retried. I have always thought she was guilty, but now, after all you have said and what Saty has said, I am really confused. I always believed that the murder could not have happened in the townhouse. Even if WM had been sedated, it doesn't remove the FACT that he had 4 bullets pumped into him. So, if he was laying down, there should have been holes in the mattress or couch. Someone testified that they saw both of those articles with no damage, so that is why I thought it had to have happened somewhere else. But it gets more complicated with what she would have done with the kids. I thought there was flesh on the floor, but now you say it could have been just incidental skin shedding.

I always thought Saty thought she may be guilty, but now she is questioning MM's innocence. I just never thought that WM knew about the affair between Miller and MM. I think he would have told his sister about it and I never heard that she knew about it. I suppose the fair thing to be done is a retrial without PP involved.

[Jack&Jill]

It will be filed as soon as they can.

One problem is they're still waiting to get some of the transcripts, and they won't file until they've been able to go over everything.


Bugsy,

Why is it taking so long to get the transcripts? Are they short on help in the courthouse? Is there any chance they the court lost some of the transcripts? If that were the case, would that be an appellate issue?

[4Life]

Vera might not know what is going on behind closed doors with MMs appeal, BUT I sure do.
One poster said the Guiltys are going to be running around with their fingers in their ears,LOL, part of that is true, but it won't be the guiltys doing it. ;) :patriot:

[Jack&Jill]

You know I was just thinking ........William was the executor of his mothers will and I understand that Cindy and Nancy were extremely short changed .I understand that Williams Children actually were written intot he will ...I find that odd , but hey ,who knows maybe Williams mother felt some animosity over her husband and the father of her daughters being sexually inapropriate with them ...you know it does make one wonder .As a mother ,if my husband EVER touched our children inapropriately ,you don't even want to know where my husband would be , but it appears that Williams mother took her husbands side , but had no probelm with William .......so much that she left him executor of the estate and his children were the ones to reap..............


I can't say I would blame cindy or Nancy for being a bit miffed at that ...so very ..these touchy situations can make relationships very toxic ...NO WONDER Cindy was able to write that note to William on ways to get back at ?Nancy when she annoyed them ...I jusy have a problem with the way she did it ....and over the reason she did it , I mean seriously I could never get over Cindy taunting her sister with the subject of theirs fathers molestation as the topic ...its just hard to swallow ............


KR,

This is some VERY interesting information you have posted. The doodle note was supposedly written because Nancy was being "difficult" is what we heard in court. But if WM got more than CL??..... This puts a whole new slant on the motive for WM's murder. MM's alledged motive was to be with a lover which seemed a little hard to believe, but it was the only one presented. But if what you say is true, this is a huge motive for someone to be upset. I keep saying I am so confused and I really am. I started out thinking she definitely did it but not in the townhouse. Now I hear several saying she deserves another trial and hear where there could be a greater motive than just a woman wanting to be with her boyfriend. So the bare minimum I would think is MM deserves another trial. I would like to know what other information or appellate issues are coming out? Maybe the guiltys will be plugging their ears and running for cover. I just have no idea what to think anymore.

[4Life]

Something to ponder:

IF Melanie is SO innocent, WHY was she carrying HER homemade will in her purse when she was arrested?
Was she going to kill herself because she felt guilty about what she did to her husband and kids? Or did she know she was going to get caught and didn't want to die in prison?
Either way it is too late because she will now die in prison

[4Life]

MM had a handwritten will in her handbag , that says just one thing to me..............she was in fear for her life and WHY not........William her deceased husband had instructed her to find him a gun , she knew he was acting very paranoid as of late . MM also saw that whoever had it out for her husband may come after her too .....she was probably thinking that if her remains were found ,someone may find her handwritten will and her childrens rights and gaurdianship would be protected.


MM would not have killed herself .....she was a loving mother protecting her childrens future rights in case whomever had it out for her hsuband William , decided they were going to take her out as well.


I think the handwritten will that you just tolf me about ,if in fact is true , is hugely relevant to her innocense.

:rolleyes:
Her afraid? LOL LOL
Why didn't she try to get the real killer found if she was afraid for her life and for the children? She didn't want ANYONE to talk to the police.She told EVERYONE not to talk to the police
She said she just wanted to get on with her life. That is something a person who is afraid she and her children will be murdered would not say.
She did not once try to help the police. She walked around for almost a year before she was arrested and NEVER helped in anyway. Out of all the taped convos with people, she NEVER said she was afraid of being murdered,she NEVER said she was worried about her saftey or the childrens safety,she never said I hope the police find the real killer...Why? Because she was the real killer.
She continued to sleep around. Is that a person who is afraid of being murdered?
So you saying she was in fear of her life is total BS

[4Life]

[QUOTE=KR12345;12157891]


MM would not have killed herself .....she was a loving mother protecting her childrens future rights in case whomever had it out for her hsuband William , decided they were going to take her out as well.


QUOTE]

A loving mother doesn't leave her children with people so she could go out nightly to have an affair with another married person. A loving mother doesn't go out to have a affair while 8 months pregnant.
The children didn't know what a loving mother was until they moved into the Ligosh home.


Nite!!!!

[bugsy]

False.

There was a syringe and a vial of pinkish liquid recovered from the glovebox of the Maxima.

The pinkish liquid was later determined to be CH. There was only a small amount missing from the vial. Much more than a trace amount.

The syringe was tested and found to be negative for CH.

[4Life]

MM had a handwritten will in her handbag , that says just one thing to me..............she was in fear for her life and WHY not........William her deceased husband had instructed her to find him a gun , she knew he was acting very paranoid as of late . MM also saw that whoever had it out for her husband may come after her too .....she was probably thinking that if her remains were found ,someone may find her handwritten will and her childrens rights and gaurdianship would be protected.


MM would not have killed herself .....she was a loving mother protecting her childrens future rights in case whomever had it out for her hsuband William , decided they were going to take her out as well.


I think the handwritten will that you just tolf me about ,if in fact is true , is hugely relevant to her innocense.

False.

There was a syringe and a vial of pinkish liquid recovered from the glovebox of the Maxima.

The pinkish liquid was later determined to be CH. There was only a small amount missing from the vial. Much more than a trace amount.

.

:no: Remnants of CH was found in the vile
Remnants = trace

Allen said he vacuumed the car for trace evidence and, inside the glove compartment, discovered a syringe and a vial containing "a pinkish liquid." Prosecutors say the liquid is the remnants of the chloral hydrate McGuire purchased and left in the glove compartment after driving her husband's car to Atlantic City.

[Topaz]

The vast manipulations of MM are just that...ways she thought to deflect suspicion away from herself. (just as WM's body "had" to be dumped far away from her. Get the car, far away...etc.)

If this business of the handmade "will" in her purse is true, I find that
puzzling. She had seen an attorney in late May, and at other times
before her arrest. He could have easily made a proper will for her.
Her POA's were dated Oct 04. She was not arrested for the first time until June 05. That "will" in her purse was just a prop IMO to bolster her fantasy alibi fear of the non-existant mob killer. She told her lover on the tapes
that LE was looking at her, and it would be "all right". I am sure she was lying and scheming like mad. We have seen the results of those lies and schemes.

[Jack&Jill]

:no: Remnants of CH was found in the vile
Remnants = trace

Allen said he vacuumed the car for trace evidence and, inside the glove compartment, discovered a syringe and a vial containing "a pinkish liquid." Prosecutors say the liquid is the remnants of the chloral hydrate McGuire purchased and left in the glove compartment after driving her husband's car to Atlantic City.


4L,

I remember what Bugsy says about the CH and I remember that was said in court. You know I was certain that MM killed WM, but when you lie about what we know was testified to,--you lose all credibility. If you are mixed up about the facts, then I apologize, but if you are trying to twist the facts, I wonder what is your game plan. How do I know what you say about the will is the truth rather than KR's?? I don't. The handwritten will sounds a little far fetched as she did have a lawyer, unless MM is really innocent and she had written that after WM took off and she was afraid he might come and kill her.

[4Life]

4L,

I remember what Bugsy says about the CH and I remember that was said in court. You know I was certain that MM killed WM, but when you lie about what we know was testified to,--you lose all credibility. If you are mixed up about the facts, then I apologize, but if you are trying to twist the facts, I wonder what is your game plan. How do I know what you say about the will is the truth rather than KR's?? I don't. The handwritten will sounds a little far fetched as she did have a lawyer, unless MM is really innocent and she had written that after WM took off and she was afraid he might come and kill her.
Excuse me?!!!!!!
What I posted was from the trial and from the State. How is that a lie from me? The "remnants" was discussed in court, on Court TV and in the Newspapers. The word "remnants" was used by all as I quoted above from the article.

Everything MM did was far fetched and overkill..The letters,the will,the POA,using a patients name and personal info illegally...etc....

You have the wrong person twisting the facts,JB

[4Life]

The poster who mentioned that the CH was not used because the vile of it was found in the car, was trying to get people to believe that the vile was still full. That is false, the vile only had remnants in it..so where is the rest of the CH?

[bugsy]

:no: Remnants of CH was found in the vile
Remnants = trace

Allen said he vacuumed the car for trace evidence and, inside the glove compartment, discovered a syringe and a vial containing "a pinkish liquid." Prosecutors say the liquid is the remnants of the chloral hydrate McGuire purchased and left in the glove compartment after driving her husband's car to Atlantic City.

Was described as a partially filled vial.

More than just a trace.

[4Life]

Was described as a partially filled vial.

More than just a trace.

I recall the term "remnants" being used in the trial and by others reporting about the case, as my quote above says,

Either way, remnant = trace or small part.

The vile was not full as when purchased, so where did the rest of it go?

Main Entry: 1rem·nant
Pronunciation: \ˈrem-nənt\
Function: noun

1 a: a usually small part, member, or trace remaining b: a small surviving group —often used in plural

[4Life]

Was described as a partially filled vial.

More than just a trace.

partially filled does NOT mean more than just a trace.

Partially is a wide range..can mean a drop-can mean any amount except full

Remnant, as the State used, it a better word to describe what was left in the once full vile

[Topaz]

The syringe was a 1ml type, used for allergy shots, and insulin.
It could also be used for FERTILITY drugs.

The dose it measures is too small to drug an adult...you'd need
5 to 10 refills of it to get an adult dose of oral CH. Some people remove the needle and give oral doses to small children as well. 1 to 1.5 ml CH oral is typically used in small children before dental or medical
procedures. (not commonly anymore--Vistaril has replaced it)

MM could easily have used her husband's car, to go to patients and
inject them...she also gave the neighbor her MS shots (testified to the defense case) which also are
1ml. A nurse with a syringe is not a novel thing.

I don't think the syringe is connected to the vial of CH, even tho they were found together that time.The vial may have been planted by MM, and that is how the DNA got on both passenger and driver sides of the car. It is just another misdirection by her IMO.

[4Life]

Nope, WMs kids were not left in his mothers will. She was deceased before they were born.
Once again you have been mis informed or are playing a game :no:

[totallyBARD]

A hearty thanks to 4Life, Topaz, DTViewer, Veracity, MGundy and others who have reiterated the factual basics of the MM trial.

Though I am not related to noted investigative journalist John Glatt as one has suggested, I truly wished I were. Then I might be able to get a bit of insight into his upcoming book on who Melanie McGuire really was and the many many circumstances which proved to the jury that she indeed killed and dismembered her husband.

Regarding the Chloral Hydrate issue: We could talk for days about Melanie researching this drug on the computer, Melanie using her lover's clinic facilities for the info and other tools/materials to help with the murder, Melanie planting a used CH bottle and syringe equipment in William's car as one of her many obstruction angles, etc etc etc.

As I have always maintained, the cumulative effect of Melanie's MANY MANY MANY lies and actions which she was caught in, is what did her in.

I fully believe no new trial will be granted because nothing in the fair and impartial judicial process as it was conducted, will ever change the overwhelming evidence against Melanie and outcome of the verdict.

Her famous defense team was given verbal-flowers on TV for how wonderfully they tried to raise reasonable doubt for their client. Yet the facts spoke for themselves. When you put it all together, MM was the killer and the fat lady even sang an international opera about it!

Now if only any possible accomplices could be rounded up and charged.

[totallyBARD]

You know I was just thinking ........William was the executor of his mothers will and I understand that Cindy and Nancy were extremely short changed. I understand that Williams Children actually were written intot he will ........


What ever gave you the idea that the siblings of the man Melanie murdered ever felt "shortchanged" over their mother's will? Do you have a media link which states their mother left much beyond FEW material assets? And wasn't the younger generation, William and his side of the family, mostly made up of successful professionals???? I think it is just plain baseline to inject such an unfounded allegation in an attempt to deflect from the criminal things Melanie did, which caused the jury to convict her of first degree murder.

All that aside, what does ANY of that have to do with Melanie having I cannot even guess how many lovers, and finding one she would kill to be with??? When push comes to shove, I think William went to work every day to to buy a nice house for the family he loved. Melanie apparently went to work to engage in sex with doctors who worked there. Once she found one rich enough, she put her murder plans in motion to rid herself of the husband who was in the way.

I am hoping John Glatt's book explores Melanie's past in great detail, so we can learn more about why she did what she did.

[Satyagraha]

Wow , GoldBug . Boy : have I missed you .
Love the thread , guys .
Don't know who lit the fire :
but Welcome back everybody !

[Topaz]

What we don't know about the chloral hydrate.

1) We do not know if THIS chloral hydrate is the SAME as picked up on the morning of Apr 28th.

2) It is conceivable that MM (who claimed to have autistic kids)...but who wanted to keep her kids quiet at times anyway--selfish mothers tend to drug their kids unfortunately-- would have had some chloral hydrate in the PAST for THEM. Say for dental appointments etc.
The most common choice to calming kids down OTC for NON medical people is Benadryl. But I could see a nurse giving CH to her kids, especially since SHE used Xanax commonly! Some children ( and some adults) have paradoxical reactions to Benadryl and react with
hyper behaviors. So maybe she HAD to have CH to sedate those kids.

3) LE did not search pharmacies for PAST dispensing of the drug. We do not know if MM went to other pharmacies at all before this murder.

4) We do not know if MM had received legally or forged CH in the past.

5) She could just as easily have looked it up that recent time to find the adult sedative dose.(after having used it in the past for the kids)

6) It was NOT stated in the trial if the CH vial was the original bottle with the Walgreen's label on it. I seem to recall that on the TV shows at least (and this may not be accurate) that LE found the computer search on her computer that led to the Walgreen's she searched to find it. They did NOT backtrack the CH in the car to her. They used her computer searches to find the source.

7) MM may have used CH in the past, and KNEW it was hard to find, so when she needed THIS one--she forged it, and searched for pharmacies close by and called them to see if they had it in stock.
Chloral hydrate liquid is not used much anymore and would go out of date sitting on shelves in a drug store. So it would be commonly special ordered for that rare occurance of an RX showing up.
(I worked in a long term health care facility that served over 30,000 beds --10,000 RXs a DAY and we never dispensed chloral hydrate much.
When this trial occured I looked and we had a partial bottle of 8oz only).

There are alot of things about this CH vial in the car that are unexplained. Notice it was not described as a small bottle. 60ml is 2 ounces and bottle would be about 3 inches high, and not considered a VIAL...a vial is a small little thing about an inch high. The 2 oz dispensed bottle had 6 doses in it. I don't think a "vial" would even have 10ml capacity, for an adult. I personally think MM kept CH in the car..to sedate the kids. After using the 1ml syringe it would be discarded, so she carried 2 or 3 syringes around that could be had at her clinic easily since she traveled to patients's homes to administer fertility shots. This is basically unsafe for the CH because HEAT would degrade it over time. Cars are dangerous places to keep any kind of medication over time, but many people do it.

[GardenGirl]

,

KR,

There is one thing you and I agree on is that this case deserves to be retried. I have always thought she was guilty, but now, after all you have said and what Saty has said, I am really confused. I always believed that the murder could not have happened in the townhouse. Even if WM had been sedated, it doesn't remove the FACT that he had 4 bullets pumped into him. So, if he was laying down, there should have been holes in the mattress or couch. Someone testified that they saw both of those articles with no damage, so that is why I thought it had to have happened somewhere else. But it gets more complicated with what she would have done with the kids. I thought there was flesh on the floor, but now you say it could have been just incidental skin shedding.

I always thought Saty thought she may be guilty, but now she is questioning MM's innocence. I just never thought that WM knew about the affair between Miller and MM. I think he would have told his sister about it and I never heard that she knew about it. I suppose the fair thing to be done is a retrial without PP involved.



The place is irrelevant in this case. All that's required is that the crime took place in the State of NJ, a jurisdictional issue resolved way back before the case ever ended up in NJ courts. Resolved between the State of Virginia and the FBI I think.
As for the transcripts MM filed bankruptcy, and they cost $14,000.00. We taxpayers are footing the bill to produce a sheaf of documents that will be over 7 feet tall.
We are obviously in no rush.

[GardenGirl]

Hi Topaz,
The interesting thing about the CH is that it was not part of the conviction and not used as evidence other than to suggest it was used in some way as part of a larger crime.
With no CH in his bloodstream, all PP could really do was hint at it.
Which she did.

[Topaz]

Hi Topaz,
The interesting thing about the CH is that it was not part of the conviction and not used as evidence other than to suggest it was used in some way as part of a larger crime.
With no CH in his bloodstream, all PP could really do was hint at it.
Which she did.

Hi GG... I am sorry your husband is still ill.

If I remember correctly, VA LE did not test for chloral hydrate. It is very uncommon, and this horrible crime did not suggest poisoning/drugging when it was discovered. Chloral hydrate leaves the body in minutes, and it metabolized into other compounds. When NJ wanted to retest, the samples in VA were already discarded, and MM quickly cremated WM.

So the evidence is gone. And you are correct, it was inferred only because of the forged RX the day of the house closing and the beginning of the crime. The gun purchase and CH purchase within 2 days of each other lead people to infer they were connected. (forging the RX also lends to a criminal intent). If the RX had been for the boys with one of their names on it and with a Pediatrician signature, the CH might have NOT even come up in this trial as significant.

I still think the small residue of CH in the vial in the glove box of WM's car is a misdirection and/or red herring. The RX bottle itself seems to have been discarded. A small vial does not contain enough to drug an adult. (and the syringe was too small in volume too).
Just for comparison's sake~~
Anna Nicole Smith's fatal dose was about 100-120 mls. Ten Times the typical dose for adult sedation. Her issues also had other drugs combined with it which were additive to the CH in toxicity.

The only way we will ever know about the actual facts of the CH
would be from MM herself, IMO.

Best wishes to you and your hubby!

[YankeeGirl]

4L,

Why would that many people need to have POA?? POA has to be done by an attorney, so why on earth do you expect us to believe this? And what does this have to do with this case or her future appeal? You have totally lost me on this crazy info. MM would not have any money,
so why would she need this many to have POA?? Did her house ever sell?


Maybe so they can never testify against her, should there ever be enough evidence to convict these accomplices.

[Jack&Jill]

Maybe so they can never testify against her, should there ever be enough evidence to convict these accomplices.


Yankee Girl,

A POA will not help any accomplices. There are very strict rules where a POA can be used and a POA is not going to give the accomplices any immunity. I have often thought it possible that Miller could have helped her because his wife would have given him an alibi. But the cops would have checked him out big time I would have thought. Was Miller given immunity? I just don't feel like they will get any accomplices as it has been over 4 years now.

[totallyBARD]

Accomplices have even been charged MANY years after the ringleader has been sentenced. There is no statute of limitations on murder. I wonder if Melanie's confidantes, who avoided the witness stand like the plague, still have lawyers on retainer.

As has been discussed many times on this forum, Miller did NOT receive immunity from prosecution. That fact was authenticated by trial testimony and also by the CTV crime library.

[Jack&Jill]

Accomplices have even been charged MANY years after the ringleader has been sentenced. There is no statute of limitations on murder. I wonder if Melanie's confidantes, who avoided the witness stand like the plague, still have lawyers on retainer.

As has been discussed many times on this forum, Miller did NOT receive immunity from prosecution. That fact was authenticated by trial testimony and also by the CTV crime library.


ToB,

Thanks for the reminder. I knew that there was a lot of discussion on immunity for Miller, but I just could not remember. Yes, we will have to wait and see if any accomplices are charged.

[totallyBARD]

ToB,
.... Yes, we will have to wait and see if any accomplices are charged.

I'm hoping any day now, but it could take a while. These people seem like such a sinister, sneaky, conniving bunch to me. Have you heard any rumors that the state is slowly building a solid case against at least one of them?

[Jack&Jill]

I'm hoping any day now, but it could take a while. These people seem like such a sinister, sneaky, conniving bunch to me. Have you heard any rumors that the state is slowly building a solid case against at least one of them?


ToB,

No rumors, but let's hope so.

[Topaz]

that a proffer was granted to Mr. Finn for his testimony.

But I can't recall if a proffer was offered to Bradley Miller too.

http://definitions.uslegal.com/p/proffer-agreement/

This was discussed at times by the guest commentators at CourtTV/TruTV (I think it was Court TV at the time).

I definitely remember Michel (he covered the trial alot) saying a proffer was given to Finn.
I would assume one was offered to Dr. Miller, too. They could both be considered accessories etc. Both appeared nervous and frightened when they testified.

[YankeeGirl]

I do not believe either one of them had anything to do with WM's murder. The mere fact that Finn was associated with this murderess is what probably made him sweaty and nervous, and because he realized he was duped and used by MM.
As for BM, he was in enough hot water at home, I'd guess, and his being exposed to the world as MM's lover, with his professional reputation at stake, made him as nervous as a nun in a cucumber patch.
I also heard that MM was given a proffer...is that true?

[dtviewer]

that a proffer was granted to Mr. Finn for his testimony.

But I can't recall if a proffer was offered to Bradley Miller too.

http://definitions.uslegal.com/p/proffer-agreement/

This was discussed at times by the guest commentators at CourtTV/TruTV (I think it was Court TV at the time).

I definitely remember Michel (he covered the trial alot) saying a proffer was given to Finn.
I would assume one was offered to Dr. Miller, too. They could both be considered accessories etc. Both appeared nervous and frightened when they testified.


Actually BM was the one with the proffer, not Finn.

[YankeeGirl]

When Finn realized what a snake MM was/is, he also realized that she could have easily manipulated him into being an accomplice, even setting him up to look as though he did the murder. He was going to help LE in any way he could.

Yanks are out, yes, Gundy. But they did'nt play ball this year!

[seawolf4]

Just going on memory here so it could be that I don't remember it correctly, but I recall they thretened to charge Finn with something like giving information on how to illegally obtain a gun.
He had resisted giving MM that information but she played him like a fiddle.
The charge would not have meant much, no jail time and he could still own a gun, But he would lose his collectors license. Apparently Finn had a gun collectors license and an extensive collection including many valuable antique guns. This type of license allowed him to show, buy and sell guns.
MM not only did not care if he took the rap for her murder she also did not care if he lost his collectors license, something that meant so much to him.
This is MOO.

[Jack&Jill]

Just going on memory here so it could be that I don't remember it correctly, but I recall they thretened to charge Finn with something like giving information on how to illegally obtain a gun.
He had resisted giving MM that information but she played him like a fiddle.
The charge would not have meant much, no jail time and he could still own a gun, But he would lose his collectors license. Apparently Finn had a gun collectors license and an extensive collection including many valuable antique guns. This type of license allowed him to show, buy and sell guns.
MM not only did not care if he took the rap for her murder she also did not care if he lost his collectors license, something that meant so much to him.
This is MOO.


Sea,

You may be right on Finn, but wasn't there talk that Finn had some prior arrest or some kind of criminal charges? The one part I disagree with you on is that MM didn't care because if you read the transcripts of their conversations, it doesn't seem like she didn't care. I do think Finn would have done about anything for MM as he loved her, but when it came to save himself, he chose himself first. Who wouldn't?

[totallyBARD]

Sea,

........ The one part I disagree with you on is that MM didn't care because if you read the transcripts of their conversations, it doesn't seem like she didn't care. I do think Finn would have done about anything for MM as he loved her, but when it came to save himself, he chose himself first. Who wouldn't?

I understood that Finn once had a crush on Melanie years earlier, but that was it. She apparently contacted him out of the blue in Feb 2004, and I guess she thought she'd capitalize on his previous crush by trying to get a gun out of the deal. I feel Finn knew she was playing him, just as I feel Melanie knew she was being taped early on.

As far as the unconscionable Melanie caring about anyone, I do not think she cared about anyone but herself. And her actions proved that over and over.

[down'trout]

No, MM did contact J. Finn out of the blue. Before Feb,2004, she had no contact with him for a few years.

[down'trout]

Before Feb. 2004, MM and Finn did not have contact with each other for a few years!

[Topaz]

That Finn testified that after school he saw her about once a year or so, but when the emails started up all of a sudden, it had been a 6 yr
break since he had contact. I recall a six year figure..seemed like a long time to me.

I think he had a proffer too or some kind of agreement. It is hard to find on the net now, and our old forum is gone...it had alot of the facts on it, sadly.

When MM's trial started it overlapped with the Anna Nicole Smith tragedy.
So I missed opening statements live. When the talking heads discussed MM's new trial...I became interested in it. (I had never heard about this case before that). I do remember that one week, Chloral Hydrate came up at the same time on both situations...and I was thinking how bizarre that coincidence was! Such an uncommon drug and to show up as part of a crime or suicide...was just very amazing to me then.

[totallyBARD]

Before Feb. 2004, MM and Finn did not have contact with each other for a few years!

I believe you are correct, and I do hope John Glatt touches on this aspect in his new book about how Melanie planned and executed the murder of her husband.

In the mean time, here is one key piece of email evidence where Melanie tried to use Finn, as she used so many others.

http://www.courttv.com/trials/mcguire/docs/email1.html

[down'trout]

Wrong.............And its not working ,just so you know ,its very obvious

Wrong! Finn and MM went for a few years before any contact with each other. The 1st contact they had with each other for a few years was in Feb. 2004

[GoldBug]

4-5 years went by before MM & Finn had any communication

[down'trout]

Wrong. Somewhere James admitted that He and Melanie did have contact ,mostly by email and atleast ONCE a year. James daid he tried to get her to meet up with him ,but she never would and then when she contacted HIM through email at this particular time ,they talked alot...but in the past years since their departure from school there was email contact atleast once a YEAR ...........You guys will find that I am right on this .

Sorry but wrong.
Yes they had contact once a year after school, but that contact stopped for a few years and started up again on Feb. 2004.
The same thing happened with Allison. They didn't have contact for many years until MM was arrested and Allsion came out of the wood work

[totallyBARD]

At the beginning of trial testimony, Prosecutor Patty Prezioso said, "...It is likely that she {Melanie McGuire} had help with certain parts of this horrible crime..."Under New Jersey law ... you will hear that whether she pulled the trigger or helped or commissioned for it to be done, it doesn't matter. She is guilty just the same."

Yes, Melanie was found guilty based on overwhelming evidence. Any accomplices remain free as of this writing. It might take years for the whole truth to come out about who may have helped this killer .... but with the investigation still open, I imagine having to constantly look over your shoulder does not make for emotionally "free" days.

Most people would never help with so horrific a crime or spend so much time trying to cover it up. But then, most people have a conscience. It shocks the senses to think that deviants who may have helped Melanie, are still walking among us.

[down'trout]

FULL COVERAGE: Melanie McGuire Murder Trial
FULL COVERAGE:
Melanie McGuire Murder Trial
Watch the trial CourtTV Extra






He testified that, after graduation in 1996, she married and their communication dropped to occasional e-mails and rare phone calls. He said that in the spring of 2004, however, she initiated more frequent e-mails and ultimately asked him for advice about buying a gun.

Occasional and rare do not mean once a year.
I see from your quote that in 2004 SHE initiated frequent emails

[down'trout]

"WRONG" Wrong wrong.

:punch: Wrong. You just proved you were wrong.

[totallyBARD]

Relative to that commentary by Melanie in the link referred to above ( http://www.courttv.com/trials/mcguire/docs/gifs/email3.gif ) ...

Since Melanie was apparently quite experienced in turning men on privately and privately, one wonders what she said to Finn in the previous day's conversation, to elicit that guy-response from him. It's clear she was deliberately moving forward with Finn who had not seen her in many years. Melanie knew he knew about guns. Melanie knew he had guns. (No need to wonder if Melanie told lover Miller about her communications with Finn. She was not one to let one of her men know about her actions with other men.)

Finn figured out she used him and then worked with police to tape her.

Melanie kept many things from her past filed away, just in case. Finn was just one of many.

[Topaz]

The bottom line is that MM was not willing to see a good old friend in person for many years (6), until she needed something from him. She needed a gun!
And if she obtained his gun, then he would be a suspect in what she intended to do with the gun. Maybe she was going to frame him?
When he would not "bite" she was forced to get a gun with no waiting period in Penn. and with an ID with false residence. (this was one of her convictions)

Finn narrowly escaped a horrible fate!

[totallyBARD]

If only the "book smart" Melanie McGuire had taken the time to read this short story about Mary Maloney.....She might have stood a much better chance of getting away with murder.

http://www.classicshorts.com/stories/lamb.html


Thanks to a fellow InSessions poster for providing this link.

[totallyBARD]

Her husband William Mcguire needed a gun , not MM ....

The 12 person jury obviously did not buy into this Melanie retread silliness. Which is why we are now past the phony tall tales and into finding any accomplices who may have helped her with the murder and with making up these stories.

PS: Do you think MM couldn't find the time to look at houses with her husband because she was too busy with that apparently extensive secret life she led??? So many men. So little time!

[GoldBug]

Now that I have shown you where you are wrong ..I have other things to do ...so please take your iime and read thourghly...oh yeah.....also the emails state that it had been 6 years that he had seen her in person ,thats where Topaz got that 6 year thing ...........


So yes James and Melanie did have contact by EMAIL atleast once a year as James stated in his email as well the article from court T.V clarifys that yes the occasional email and rare phone contact , occasional acording to James hiself is once a year ....


Thankyou for allowing me to be of assistance to you.
You are joking right? That proves nothing. You were so very wrong about the HOA and now this.

Please take your rude/snide comments to another thread

[GoldBug]

...... the only reason she had to use a PA drivers license was because that is where she was forced to have AUTO insurance due to Willima having 34 driving convictions in NJ and they could not get insured in NJ so she too was forced ( to carry drivers license and insurance in PA )

:no: No No, that is not true. She was not forced to have auto insurance in PA.She had her own
insurance for her own car. She could have easily had insurance in NJ,but she wanted cheaper insurance. PA insurance is cheaper, NJ insurance is very high. She commited insurance fraud.

[Topaz]

Her husband William Mcguire needed a gun , not MM . I hardly think Melanie could very well tell James ,who was in love with her that her husband needed a gun for protection , Melanie was asking James for the gun because William had been looking for one with no luck and he being a convicyed felon could not obtain one on his own...so Melanie was doing her best to get her husband a gun. When she couldn't get one from James , she actually went and bought and registred the gun in her own name , the only reason she had to use a PA drivers license was because that is where she was forced to have AUTO insurance due to Willima having 34 driving convictions in NJ and they could not get insured in NJ so she too was forced ( to carry drivers license and insurance in PA ) But she registred that gun in her ownname because she had NO INTENT on killing her husband with it ..............if I were going to kill someone with a gun do you think I'd register it in my own name ? No , and neither would Melanie or anyone else , she was buying it for William as he asked her to ....and YES she did do whatever william asked ....she was moving with him to a new house ,one HE picked out , he was very controling obviously .

She was FORCED to defraud her insurance company? NOPE...
She chose to defraud to save some bucks.

She had to buy the gun in HER name, because HER name was on the license. I never for one moment believed that she was buying that gun for WM. She was buying it for herself. She thought she'd not be found out (and that almost did come true).

If she wanted a gun, she could have purchased it in New Jersey, but then her license was a fraud wasn't it? Besides NJ had a waiting period and Penn did not. It appears to me that the time frame for the e-mails is pretty close to the date the crime started (April 28th). Looks sort of like a "rush job". Perhaps she did not expect the closing so soon, or there was another factor. It was so convenient for WM to have 2 wks vacation all planned so his absence would not be discovered right away.

And yeah...I suppose the fabrication of putting the heavy batteries in the lockbox would be done by a guy, who allegedly took the gun when the alleged argument took place (NOT). WM and mostly any other person would just take it and leave. After all if we are to believe the argument story, he would have been angry and in a huff. Not leave a dummy thing inside that box!

But then this case is so chock full of all these weird conniving situations that always point back to MM herself.

[down'trout]

For those of you that do not know, Melanie had PA insurance before she met WM. WM had nothing to do with Melanie getting insurance in PA

[totallyBARD]

She was FORCED to defraud her insurance company? NOPE...
She chose to defraud to save some bucks.

She had to buy the gun in HER name, because HER name was on the license. I never for one moment believed that she was buying that gun for WM. She was buying it for herself. She thought she'd not be found out (and that almost did come true).

If she wanted a gun, she could have purchased it in New Jersey, but then her license was a fraud wasn't it? Besides NJ had a waiting period and Penn did not. It appears to me that the time frame for the e-mails is pretty close to the date the crime started (April 28th). Looks sort of like a "rush job". Perhaps she did not expect the closing so soon, or there was another factor. It was so convenient for WM to have 2 wks vacation all planned so his absence would not be discovered right away.

And yeah...I suppose the fabrication of putting the heavy batteries in the lockbox would be done by a guy, who allegedly took the gun when the alleged argument took place (NOT). WM and mostly any other person would just take it and leave. After all if we are to believe the argument story, he would have been angry and in a huff. Not leave a dummy thing inside that box!

But then this case is so chock full of all these weird conniving situations that always point back to MM herself.

You have touched on several really good points regarding Melanie's plan. It would take a book to fill up the many pre-plans and obstruction devices she put in place. She must have pooped a ton of bricks when those suitcases unexpectedly surfaced, because she (and any helpers) would have to spend so much more time devising additional false roads for LE to travel.

But she did not count on top notch people like Assistant Attorney General Patricia Prezioso to step forward with both extensive science and legal disciplines under her belt. Prezioso knew how to get to the very heart of what happened to Bill McGuire, one piece of evidence at a time. She and her team did an incredible job, especially considering the overkill-obstacles Melanie (and any helpers) put in front of the facts.

[YankeeGirl]

The bottom line is that MM was not willing to see a good old friend in person for many years (6), until she needed something from him. She needed a gun!
And if she obtained his gun, then he would be a suspect in what she intended to do with the gun. Maybe she was going to frame him?
When he would not "bite" she was forced to get a gun with no waiting period in Penn. and with an ID with false residence. (this was one of her convictions)

Finn narrowly escaped a horrible fate!

That poor guy must say Novenas every Friday! I wonder if her sudden interest in seeing him and guns ever struck him as peculiar. I recall that he said in court that when she called and announced that "He's dead", something clicked, and creeped him out.

[down'trout]

When a husband and wife have cars " 2" that were both registered in both their names , you can't have ONE registered in PA and the other in NJ .......William's 34 driving convictions clearly is the reason they had insurance and cars registered in the state over from where they lived to even be able to have insurance and again ,NO , you can;t have insurnace registered in 2 different states when BOTH were on the reagistraions of EACH CAR...anyone can SEE who led the way for insurance fraud and BOTH were guilty of it ,but MM was only doing what she had to to even be able to HAVE CAR insurance ....34 driving convictions GEEEZ!

Show me proof that the cars were registered under both their names!!
MMs car was registered only under her name
Her family did the same years ago.
They all played the insurance fraud game

[bugsy]

Show me proof that the cars were registered under both their names!!
MMs car was registered only under her name
Her family did the same years ago.
They all played the insurance fraud game

Let's be fair.

I'd assume the only type of proof you'd take in this situation is copies of the car registrations. What else could prove it to you? I don't think anyone here has access to such.

But since you are asking for such proof from a poster, I'm sure you'd return the favor.

Can you show us proof MM had car insurance in PA prior to meeting WM?

Can you show us proof "her family did the same"?

Is that fair?

[BigDude]

Let's be fair.

I'd assume the only type of proof you'd take in this situation is copies of the car registrations. What else could prove it to you? I don't think anyone here has access to such.

But since you are asking for such proof from a poster, I'm sure you'd return the favor.

Can you show us proof MM had car insurance in PA prior to meeting WM?

Can you show us proof "her family did the same"?

Is that fair?


Hey Bugsy,

Long time no see. I thought this forum was long gone. Same ole stuff different day, huh? The same old mud slinging by the people who think they know everything. I agree with you that MM had no reason to get insurance in PA. She was a model citizen until she hooked up with WM.
Just because WM had a horrible record doesn't mean everybody else did and had to go to PA to get a cheaper rate. The G's are just saying that to make WM not looked so bad IMO. Later.........

[Satyagraha]

IS THERE a point to this trip down Memory Lane besides people annoying each other ?
Because the World has moved on ; the banks are failing and you are back and forth with this nonsense all over again .
If you believe Melanie McGuire guilty as charged : she's already in prison what more do you want from her already ?
If you believe she is innocent : check out 12AngryMen's Profile and you will be instructed how to make yourself useful . Otherwise , rent a movie or something .

[totallyBARD]

IS THERE a point to this trip down Memory Lane besides people annoying each other ?
Because the World has moved on ; the banks are failing and you are back and forth with this nonsense all over again .
If you believe Melanie McGuire guilty as charged : she's already in prison what more do you want from her already ?
If you believe she is innocent : check out 12AngryMen's Profile and you will be instructed how to make yourself useful . Otherwise , rent a movie or something .

Along with the State of NJ and most people who watched the MM trial, I heartily support the conviction and life sentence of Melanie McGuire. While you are certainly free to say just the opposite, as you have expressed regularly on other boards including earlier today. I think we all share your concerns about those living on credit beyond their means and Wall Street being in bed with government officials on both sides of the aisle. I feel that the country's financial issues are for another thread, not the MM thread.

That being said, there is room for your pro-MM stance on this thread too. We're strong. We can handle both sides of an issue. :patriot:

PS: MM's guilt has already been decided by a jury of her peers. Most of us have moved on to discussions of finding any accomplices and seeing what motions may be raised if appeal motions are deemed appropriate to be heard. There is a new book coming out which may present a much more detailed side of Melanie past and present. You might be very interested in checking it out.

[Satyagraha]

Along with the State of NJ and most people who watched the MM trial, I heartily support the conviction and life sentence of Melanie McGuire. While you are certainly free to say just the opposite, as you have expressed regularly on other boards including earlier today. I think we all share your concerns about those living on credit beyond their means and Wall Street being in bed with government officials on both sides of the aisle. I feel that the country's financial issues are for another thread, not the MM thread.

That being said, there is room for your pro-MM stance on this thread too. We're strong. We can handle both sides of an issue. :patriot:

PS: MM's guilt has already been decided by a jury of her peers. Most of us have moved on to discussions of finding any accomplices and seeing what motions may be raised if appeal motions are deemed appropriate to be heard. There is a new book coming out which may present a much more detailed side of Melanie past and present. You might be very interested in checking it out.


Sure will . Pre-ordered TWO copies .
Hope I can read the print........

[4Life]

Well I see people are still posting things here not are just not true, What is the game?
1 MM and JF did not have contact with each other for quit sometime
2 MM had insurance in PA before dating WM
3 Mother and Father also used another state to get cheaper insurance, seems that runs in the family
4 There was a post here that said there is no other investigations going on, where did that post go? Well that is not true.
5 Team from BB working on the appeal? Not true, it is ONE person along with Steve and the Court appointed lawyer
6 The POA was filled out in 04, 6 months after the murder, On 8/08 it was filed and put into action. Why 7 people? Who knows, but 3 of those 7 were/are considered accomplices

Now Now Bugsy, you know certain records/Information can not be posted on these boards, against TOS. For some one that has stressed you do not know the Capps and MM, you seem to act like you do. :shrug:

I do recall you saying you would ONLY pass someone in the family from time to time standing outside of work.

Have a nice day :seeya:

[bugsy]

Now Now Bugsy, you know certain records/Information can not be posted on these boards, against TOS. For some one that has stressed you do not know the Capps and MM, you seem to act like you do. :shrug:

I do recall you saying you would ONLY pass someone in the family from time to time standing outside of work.

Have a nice day :seeya:


Nope, sorry, never said that:-) You better check again, you're a bit off.

An attempt by you to twist my words to fit some sort of an agenda, perhaps?

[4Life]

Nope, sorry, never said that:-) You better check again, you're a bit off.

An attempt by you to twist my words to fit some sort of an agenda, perhaps?
I figured you would say that since all the old messages from the old Courttv board are gone. You did say to many of the people on here that you do not know any of the Capps or MM and you only saw one of them in the passing sometimes
I recall Dtviewer(?) called you out on that once and you denied it but he/she found a post from you that did say that.
DT if it wasn't you I'm sorry but someone did.

[bugsy]

I figured you would say that since all the old messages from the old Courttv board are gone. You did say to many of the people on here that you do not know any of the Capps or MM and you only saw one of them in the passing sometimes
I recall Dtviewer(?) called you out on that once and you denied it but he/she found a post from you that did say that.
DT if it wasn't you I'm sorry but someone did.

No, what I had said was that I had worked with a member of the family.