July 2 thru 12/31

[walton]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700239834,00.html

The jury found him guilty of both offenses and 3rd District Judge Royal Hansen set a tentative sentencing date of Aug. 22. Prior to that, officials will conduct a presentence investigation to determine sentencing recommendations.

The murder charge carries a potential sentence of 15 years to life. The judge could impose a sentence ranging from 6 years to life, 10 years to life or 15 years to life on the aggravated sexual assault conviction

[walton]

http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_9729470

"They still always say they're being persecuted for polygamy," Chapman said, of reaction to recent crackdowns. "Well, they're being prosecuted for crimes."
FLDS elder and sect spokesman Willie Jessop blasted discussion of the group at a conference focused on cults. He called it stereotyping.
Likewise, Mary Batchelor, co-founder of Principle Voices, an advocacy group for polygamous communities, said some people are unwilling to see the diversity in polygamous groups and only see good or bad.
"We have a legitimate culture and obviously there is variety in how that culture is practiced among the groups," Batchelor said. "Some may view it [polygamy] as a cult. We don't."


It is a cult. imo

[walton]

Originally posted by Imperfect
Hi Walton,

Any idea where our thread from 6/30 - ? went? Did you get a chance to read any of it?

Mimi's was the last post on it at 7:39pm, and now it's gone.

There was lots of good stuff on that from yesterday and today.

:confused: [/*]

Don't know what happened, where it happened or what happened to it.

Last post I read was the post grammybear made to me.

:shrug:

[evalles]

I had no idea the raid took place at night.

This is what two of the legal aid attorneys said.
I think the link was posted first on the last thread, wherever that went ?


While CPS agents repeatedly insisted (and the media largely regurgitated this insistence) that the agency had no choice but to pull children from the YFZ ranch, that it was acting out of extreme concern for the safety and well-being of those individuals, Chisholm and Balovich found the actions of the state in the ensuing weeks “unbelievably horrible.”

For starters, said Chisholm, the initial investigation by CPS to question YFZ members was instigated at 9 pm, and subjects, including young children, were questioned well into the night, while armed agents (and a tank) surrounded them.

Then, once YFZ children were taken into custody, those under five years old were initially allowed to remain with their mothers, albeit all housed in a sports coliseum in San Angelo (anyone reminded of New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina?). Mothers’ mobile phones were confiscated, said Chisholm, and the coliseum entrances/exits were barricaded and guarded by Department of Public Safety (DPS) agents. CPS maintained that it was not preventing mothers from leaving the premises; if a mother left, however, CPS would not allow her back in. “If you had a child in there, what would you do?” asked Chisholm, who represents 4 of the mothers.

Further, after being blocked for an entire day by DPS from access to her clients into the coliseum, Balovich was forced to file a motion for a lawsuit before agents relented

http://www.bigbendgazette.com/blog/_archives/2008/7/1/3771392.html

[walton]

I do believe that the questions late into the night is due to the different answers from the leaders and the "parents".

And if memory serves me right, the "shuffling" of kids from one home to the next might have added to the length of time.

jmo

[evalles]

Originally posted by walton
I do believe that the questions late into the night is due to the different answers from the leaders and the "parents".

And if memory serves me right, the "shuffling" of kids from one home to the next might have added to the length of time.

jmo [/*]

They started at 9pm, how could it be the parents fault ? It's gonna take hours when over 400 chilgren involved.

It hasn't even been proven that they were shuffling kids around.
It's also just as possible that the parents weren't lying or misleading them and they were confused by the sheer number of children they were dealing with.
Also per the attorney :
it turned out that the CPS list of where each child went was not always accurate

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by evalles


They started at 9pm, how could it be the parents fault ? It's gonna take hours when over 400 chilgren involved.

[/*]

IIRC, from a long interview with Sheriff Doran, the reason for the late start was because they were all stalled off at the gate for hours upon hours, trying to negotiate with the FLDS & hoping to not have to enter by force.

[Mimi428]

Here's the article of the interview with Sheriff Doran -

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700231536,00.html

On the first page, he explains that no one knew beforehand how many children were on the compound nor did they know how many might be removed. Sheriff Doran had been lied to by the FLDS, who had maintained that there were approximately 100 people TOTAL on the compound.

[evalles]

Originally posted by Mimi428


IIRC, from a long interview with Sheriff Doran, the reason for the late start was because they were all stalled off at the gate for hours upon hours, trying to negotiate with the FLDS & hoping to not have to enter by force. [/*]

That's what he says, isn't there any video coverage ?
So far I haven't seen any of the claims they made against these parents turn out to be true.

[juliekan]

Originally posted by Mimi428


IIRC, from a long interview with Sheriff Doran, the reason for the late start was because they were all stalled off at the gate for hours upon hours, trying to negotiate with the FLDS & hoping to not have to enter by force. [/*]

As Mimi sited: http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700231536,00.html?pg=2

Quoting the article:
Deseret News: The FLDS have said they cooperated from the beginning. From the gate, everything. That they provided everyone that was asked to talk to.

Doran: No, there was a level of accomodation, but I can't say there was a full level of cooperation. They met us at the gate, we laid out what we had going on. We were held up at the gate for about two to three hours. When the leader of the group showed up, that's when the Texas Ranger who was the affiant on the search warrant, presented him with the search warrant and handed it to him and that's when we took Child Protective Services in. They set us up at the school...(CPS) put in a request to see so many girls, but that request was not carried out. It was in small increments through the night and not as requested by Child Protective Services.

edited for spelling, hope I finally got it all correct

[juliekan]

IIRC, the Amish only marry one woman, not several?

[walton]

Originally posted by juliekan


As Mimi sited: http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700231536,00.html?pg=2

Quoting the article:
Deseret News: The FLDS have said they cooperated from the beginning. From the gate, everything. That they provided everyone that was asked to talk to.

Doran: No, there was a level of accomodation, but I can't say there was a full level of cooperation. They met us at the gate, we laid out what we had going on. We were held up at the gate for about two to three hours. When the leader of the group showed up, that's when the Texas Ranger who was the affiant on the search warrant, presented him with the search warrant and handed it to him and that's when we took Child Protective Services in. They set us up at the school...(CPS) put in a request to see so many girls, but that request was not carried out. It was in small increments through the night and not as requested by Child Protective Services.

edited for spelling, hope I finally got it all correct [/*]

That is what I remember reading.

[walton]

Originally posted by 1314
I still don't understand what all the hoopla is about. This behaviour has gone on for decades in the regions that border Arizona and Utah. It is no secret nationally or internationally.

Why is this being treated like it's news. It isn't, and most people know it. [/*]

The hoopla might be that there are states out there that are willing to act on calls about abuse within any community. Unlike a few other states. Namely Utah and Arizona.

The hoopla is that even though the abuses were well known in those states the local agencies did not/have not responed accordingly. Check the many links on the link thread.

The hoopla might be that this call involved over 400 children when only 100 plus people were expected to be living at the ranch.

Yup, this is big news. And I still believe that Texas did the best thing that they could under those circumstances. I am still proud of Texas. :patriot:

[walton]

Originally posted by evalles


That's what he says, isn't there any video coverage ?
So far I haven't seen any of the claims they made against these parents turn out to be true. [/*]




Sheriff Doran wouldn't lie.

[walton]

Originally posted by grammybear
I had to take off for a little while due to a crisis with one of our daughters and come back and find the thread deleated.
I heard about the guilty verdict with Dutson Parley. I sure hope the court takes into consideration his background with the FLDS. I have seen cases go either way and even though I do not agree with this boy killing his girlfriend I think there are issues that need to be considered.

The biggest problem that I see is that the FLDS have been lying for so long that authorities cannot take anything they say as gospel. I think this group should have been charged with their criminal behavior along time ago. They say it is religion and I say they are just using religion as an excuse for their sickening behavior. They have committed crines and they should be made to pay for it. The rest of society for the most part pay for their crimes and the FLDS should have to play by the same rules.

I still say that CPS did the what they thought was the right thing to do with what they had to work with. I do not think they realized exactly what they would find when they got there.

I also remember that the sheriffs dept and the social workers had to wait a long time to get in. I though I heard somewhere that the FLDS were shedding documents when the CPS workers came in.

jmo [/*]

grammy have you noticed anything missing from any of the articles about Parley?

Comments from his parents. Nothing stating that the parents were even there. All I've seen is that he might have had one brother there at this last court hearing.

[walton]

Originally posted by evalles


They started at 9pm, how could it be the parents fault ? It's gonna take hours when over 400 chilgren involved.

It hasn't even been proven that they were shuffling kids around.
It's also just as possible that the parents weren't lying or misleading them and they were confused by the sheer number of children they were dealing with.
Also per the attorney :
it turned out that the CPS list of where each child went was not always accurate [/*]

When they were asked about Sara the CPS and LE were told that there were NO Saras that lived there. After asking some of the others they found I think 5 Saras living there.

[juliekan]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by juliekan


As Mimi cited: http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700231536,00.html?pg=2

Quoting the article:
Deseret News: Do you believe the call was a hoax?

Doran: Hard to say. We uncovered a Sarah Barlow that matched that description, and based on their fear of talking to law enforcement, who's to say? I don't have the proof and evidence in front of me to say that she does not exist.

(Doran talks about the investigation into the hoax caller)

Doran: At the same time, when we were told there was no Sarah Barlow out there with that name, we uncovered several and one closely resembling that description. I really don't have a good answer for that.

[juliekan]

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/jul/02/sect-affiliated-company-bids-on-tom-green-county/

Sect affiliated company bids on Tom Green County project

[Roux]

Originally posted by Imperfect


Last time I looked, we were behaving ourselves.

:mad: [/*]

I was worried and upset when I checked in last night to catch up and found our thread missing. My last post was congratulating Juliekan on her bday so thought maybe my O/T got us banished!

[lotty]

Originally posted by juliekan
http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/jul/02/sect-affiliated-company-bids-on-tom-green-county/

Sect affiliated company bids on Tom Green County project [/*]

I wonder if it has anything to do with the link(s) I posted on the link thread that was pulled. IIRC I posted two different newspaper articles about it. :shrug:
As always JMO/IMO.

[juliekan]

Originally posted by Roux


I was worried and upset when I checked in last night to catch up and found our thread missing. My last post was congratulating Juliekan on her bday so thought maybe my O/T got us banished! [/*]

thanks, honey, never got to see it. Nope, I sent CW an e-mail last night and they reported that it was a technical problem. I've also been surfing around this morning and there are at least 4 other threads complaining...and I mean stuff like cooking threads..how can you offend anyone there? Like your cooking can stink on-line:lol: We can stop worrying, we didn't tick anybody off. Just lost a lot of info...hammer

[juliekan]

Originally posted by Imperfect
[
One of the disappearing threads was from a poster whose mother passed away. :( [/*]

I SAW that, how awful!

[Vinnie]

Originally posted by Imperfect


Thanks for the link, JK.

IMO, there should be a moratorium on awarding contracts to FLDS-affiliated companies until the entire subject of possible criminal conduct has been put to bed.

No state government, nor the federal government, should aid and abet whatever is going on inside that cult until we know what truly IS going on inside that cult. And I think Bruce Wisan should be in the big fat middle of it.

If they want to live on compounds, behind gates, in secrecy so they can break whatever laws of the land they feel like, then they can figure out how to fund that mess on their own, without government assistance. [/*]

At the very least they have to prove they will not use underage laborers!!

[juliekan]

Originally posted by juliekan
http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/jul/02/sect-affiliated-company-bids-on-tom-green-county/

Sect affiliated company bids on Tom Green County project [/*]

One company is JNJ Engineering Construction Inc. which is owned by Jacob Nathan Jessop. Couldn't locate who owns Paragon T Contractors, but they are supposedly also out of Hilldale.

Lotty sent me this info. :seeya: Lotty

http://www.hesperianbeacon.com/051707news.htm

Very interesting story about Samuel Fischer who has relocated to the Texas Panhandle from Hilldale. He has bought 3 homes in the area, one for his family and other for "key people." Mr. Fischer's wife had complications with her"last 6 children" that she gave birth to (out of 13), so when Mr. Fischer happened upon some children who were from a family" torn apart", he adopted all 9 of them. And Lo and Behold, he also adopted their mother!
This article is HIM, talking about his life. No spin allowed. :D

Thanks Lotty

[juliekan]

Originally posted by Vinnie


At the very least they have to prove they will not use underage laborers!! [/*]

Wouldn't yu think? Then again we know how hard it is to pin them down on things like age, parentage, etc.

[Mimi428]

I'm trying to re-find the links that were on the poofed thread & at least get them on the "Links" thread. May take me awhile, I've got to leave very soon & I imagine by the time I get back this board will be closed for the Holiday weekend.

Walton - I still have not found anything specific on David Mackert, but I will continue to look.

The details that came out in the murder trial of Parley Dutson are horrifying. Read an article on him the other day, written before the guilty verdict.

I hope that during our 4th of July celebrations, we can all take a moment to reflect on the innocent minors, unfortunate enough to be born into families who view them as disposable tickets to glory. If ever there has been a group who have been used as if they are no more than tools - useful only as long as they work for their elders & to be disposed of should they fail to perform - it is the FLDS children.

JMO

[juliekan]

:patriot: Mimi

[lotty]

Originally posted by juliekan


One company is JNJ Engineering Construction Inc. which is owned by Jacob Nathan Jessop. Couldn't locate who owns Paragon T Contractors, but they are supposedly also out of Hilldale.

Lotty sent me this info. :seeya: Lotty

http://www.hesperianbeacon.com/051707news.htm

Very interesting story about Samuel Fischer who has relocated to the Texas Panhandle from Hilldale. He has bought 3 homes in the area, one for his family and other for "key people." Mr. Fischer's wife had complications with her"last 6 children" that she gave birth to (out of 13), so when Mr. Fischer happened upon some children who were from a family" torn apart", he adopted all 9 of them. And Lo and Behold, he also adopted their mother!
This article is HIM, talking about his life. No spin allowed. :D

Thanks Lotty [/*]
You are welcome!
Anyone catch this from the above link? As always JMO/IMO.

"According to Fischer the business specializes in custom cabinet work, however he intends to branch out into the modular line of cabinet making."

[juliekan]

Originally posted by lotty

You are welcome!
Anyone catch this from the above link? As always JMO/IMO.

"According to Fischer the business specializes in custom cabinet work, however he intends to branch out into the modular line of cabinet making." [/*]

thanks, that was my tie-in to the other article and then I noticed I had completely left that out after I got enraged about the rest of the article:cuss:

[juliekan]

Just a warning in case anyone wants to write down some of these links.....surfing around again and sites are going

POOOOOOF

all over the boards :punch:

[evalles]

Originally posted by walton





Sheriff Doran wouldn't lie. [/*]

How exactly do you know that ?

[Roux]

Originally posted by juliekan
http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/jul/02/sect-affiliated-company-bids-on-tom-green-county/

Sect affiliated company bids on Tom Green County project [/*]

Parker seems to butt in and make comments on anything and everything FLDS, but I suppose he gets calls from newspaper people asking for a blurb.

What really cracked me up was his comment that the FLDS companies are very familiar with the bidding process on govt projects. Well of course they are -- they've got it down to a T. :rolleyes:

And the icing on the cake, he said they have a good track record on compliance. Not according to some of the links I've read.

[walton]

I first heard about Ken Driggs when he was going to be at Warrens trial. I believe he was called a "Mormon expert".

Then I heard Ken Driggs was called an expert on the FLDS.

I just found this: http://www.amazon.com/Evil-Among-Us-Missionary-Murders/dp/1560851384

:D

He was on the MSNBC special the other night. I wish I could have heard his take on things. Maybe he knows who has the keys.

:shrug:

Check out the comments: doesn't stop researching and investigating until he gets to the truth. Cool.

[walton]

Originally posted by Imperfect
Hello!

We're back from the holiday.

Anyone home? :D [/*]

I missed you guys. Hope everyone had a safe and happy holiday.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by Imperfect
I missed everyone, too.

We went camping up in the Sierras for a couple days -- came back yesterday. It was very peaceful. No TV, no phone, no computer or internet.

I took the opportunity to read some more of 'Escape' by Carolyn Jessop. I learned Merril married her in order to stop a lawsuit Carolyn's father had initiated against him for some business dealing they had. Also learned that Merril's intent was to ask the then-prophet ('Uncle Roy') for Annette Jessop, Carolyn's younger and more beautiful sister. But he GOT THEIR NAMES CONFUSED, and asked Uncle Roy for Carolyn instead. So they started out their already doomed marriage with neither of them having ever intended to marry the other. What a mess. [/*]

Good Morning Ev1 :seeya:

I was in Texas for a week. I too the book 'Escape' with me to read. It is shocking to read about the way Warren Jeffs took control of the 'cult'.

It is also interesting to read about the 'family dynamics' within a polygamist society. The jealousy and cruelty that go on between the sister wives is astonishing.

[walton]

Originally posted by Imperfect
Well as I live and breathe!

We're back! [/*]

Feels good doesn't it? :)

[witchy1]

Yes!!!! :beer:

[LLaFren]

OMG, we are back....

Let the postings begin!:D I missed you guys!

[witchy1]

:rose: Thank you. Not much on Warrens hospital stay, huh? They said that they are watching him but were not for sure if he had been fasting.
Do you know anything else?
TIA

[LLaFren]

The only thing I recall reading (I'll go back and try to find the link) is that he's weak from "fasting"...give me a minute and I'll try refind the article

[LLaFren]

Nope I was wrong, the fasting thing was old news.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,379321,00.html

No one is talking about what this one was about.

LL

[witchy1]

Have you seen this?
http://usatoday.feedroom.com/index.jsp?fr_story=1f873f65f3fcfe72acb3*9ccf295296 8187d3ec2&rf=rss

[witchy1]

also, I think this happened while the boards were down, didn't they court order DNA swabs, like, last week to verify if those children he married ( the young girls he was photographed with) had bore his children?
I'll go see if I can find a link. BRB

ETA my first edit didn't take. I was mistaken about the dates here, the swabs were earlier, but the results have not been disclosed. Sorry :shrug:

[lotty]

I read somewhere the D.A.'s office took a third swab from one of WJ's wives and child. She is 19yo now, they believe she was under age when she conceived the child.
Here's the link.

http://origin.sltrib.com/news/ci_9864515
Texas officials gather more DNA evidence for criminal case
By Brooke Adams
The Salt Lake Tribune
Article Last Updated: 07/12/2008 11:59:47 PM MDT

[kellygreen]

According to a CASA report filed on July 18, Teresa Jeffs was married to Warren's 34-year old buddy the day after Teresa's 15th birthday--oh, and daddy officiated.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_9926360

Didn't the FLDS maintain Teresa had never been married? Apparently Teresa kept a diary of the big event, and the FLDS ladies made a scrap book for Teresa and her new husband.

[walton]

Thanks you guys for bringing the links and stories over.

Witchy I couldn't get that one link to work... What did you want us to see?


From Kelly's link:

An excerpt from the girl's own diary also included a recollection of the marriage to Raymond Jessop, which appears to have taken place July 26, 2006, at the "Home of President Warren Jeffs."
In a Dec. 27, 2006, entry, the girl wrote "The Lord blessed me to go forward in marriage July 27, 2006, the day after I turned 15 years old."

Gee I do wonder where Merril and Wendall are keeping themselves?

Anyone find anything on Patricia Keate?

[walton]

Originally posted by lotty
I read somewhere the D.A.'s office took a third swab from one of WJ's wives and child. She is 19yo now, they believe she was under age when she conceived the child.
Here's the link.

http://origin.sltrib.com/news/ci_9864515
Texas officials gather more DNA evidence for criminal case
By Brooke Adams
The Salt Lake Tribune
Article Last Updated: 07/12/2008 11:59:47 PM MDT [/*]

From the link: The Texas Attorney General's Office served a search warrant on Veda Keate, 19, in Converse, Texas, at the apartment where she is living with her 2-year-old daughter, sister and mother. Robert Switzer, a San Antonio defense attorney, arranged for Keate to meet with a nurse and two deputies.


We are remodeling my office. What should have been a two week job has turned into now at least 6 weeks. Uggh All my stuff is scattered in boxes. Does anyone have the Bishops list handy?

Does it list Veda Keate any where? Her mother?

Could it be? :eek:

[lotty]

Hi Walton, long time no see.

I caught the name Veda Keate as well. I don't recall seeing her name on the Bishop's list. I don't think the whole list was made public information. I noticed none of Warren's family was listed, seems to be a lot of them there. I'll have to check and see. You can still read the Bishop's List at gosanangelo.com , they have all the FLDS articles and documents under one link.


Went to read...I didn't see a Veda Keate near the age of 16, 17, that would be about the right age I think. Found a few young Veda's 12 or under at the time.
ETA I might have missed something.
Bishop's list
http://web.gosanangelo.com/pdf/BishopsList.pdf


Hope the remodel goes smoothly and ends soon.
:seeya:

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by kellygreen
According to a CASA report filed on July 18, Teresa Jeffs was married to Warren's 34-year old buddy the day after Teresa's 15th birthday--oh, and daddy officiated.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_9926360

Didn't the FLDS maintain Teresa had never been married? Apparently Teresa kept a diary of the big event, and the FLDS ladies made a scrap book for Teresa and her new husband. [/*]

Thanks for posting that link.

We are only a few days away from the next meeting of the grand jury. I have a hunch that before too long they will be issuing some indictments. I seriously doubt that Teresa was the only young girl to be married at the YFZ compound when she was underage.

We heard so little about Warren's recent trip to the hospital, which I guess isn't surprising considering the strict rules for maintaining confidentiality, but I sure would like to have been a fly on the wall during that episode.

[Mimi428]

Friendly reminder to everyone - please remember CW does not want us to offer personal comments on the 'Links' thread. Bring a link over to the current running thread & then comment. TIA

:seeya:

[walton]

Here are the links Texas SE brought over: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5895744.html

"I was shown that I should perform three marriage sealings tonight," according to a journal dictated by Warren Jeffs in which he describes marrying his daughter and two others, including the marriage of an 11-year-old girl to himself, on Thursday, July 27, 2006.

His daughter was married to Raymond Jessop, son of FLDS Bishop Merrill Jessop, considered by many to be Jeffs' right-hand man.

"I did gather my daughter ... and her mother Annette in this afternoon and gave her a training on how to be a heavenly wife and to get close to her husband," Jeffs wrote.

The girl's own diary, excerpted and attached in the court filing, confirmed that series of events.

And Warrens diary entry found here: http://images.chron.com/content/news/photos/08/07/19/flds.pdf


Texas SE thanks for the links.



Doesn't this make your skin crawl?

[walton]

Originally posted by lotty
Hi Walton, long time no see.

I caught the name Veda Keate as well. I don't recall seeing her name on the Bishop's list. I don't think the whole list was made public information. I noticed none of Warren's family was listed, seems to be a lot of them there. I'll have to check and see. You can still read the Bishop's List at gosanangelo.com , they have all the FLDS articles and documents under one link.


Went to read...I didn't see a Veda Keate near the age of 16, 17, that would be about the right age I think. Found a few young Veda's 12 or under at the time.
ETA I might have missed something.
Bishop's list
http://web.gosanangelo.com/pdf/BishopsList.pdf


Hope the remodel goes smoothly and ends soon.
:seeya: [/*]

I was thinking that maybe Patricia might be Vedas mother. Dang! I think Patricia Keate plays an important role here somewhere but I just don't know where. :shrug:

The remodel isn't as bad as I make it out to be. But man I am sitting in my garage with my computer and all other office stuff scattered thru the house. Grrrrr I feel like that guy from the movie Office space.

So very nice to see everyone. I truly missed everybody. I haven't seen Evalles posting anywhere other than a couple on Bills site. Hope all is well with her as well.

[walton]

Originally posted by grammybear
Hi everybody, it is nice to be back together. I had read about Jeffs being in the hospital but it was only like 2 days IIRC/ I couold find no other information on him.
He must not have bneen too sick considering the short time he was in the hospital. He was also in the hospital just before his trial in Utah.
I do not know when his next trial starts.

On the issue of his child brides. There wasa picture of one being 12 at the time of wedding and I think the other was like 14. I have read nothing in regards to these two girls. So it will be interesting to see what is happening.
I think that when the grand jury meeding on monday that we may read about indictments coming down. Also hopefully Texas is getting the results of the DNA so that all questions will be answered about what has gone on with the flds.

jmoo [/*]

I don't understand if Warren is truly up and about why he or his lawyer aren't making any comments. No pictures- No comments- no nothing. Next picture up should be good ol Willy with foot in mouth.


Did you guys know that Warrens dad Rulon had Parkinsons Disease?

[walton]

http://coramnonjudice.blogspot.com/

Holy Cow!! :eek:

[lotty]

CW,
Sorry for posting a comment on the link thread. Won't happen again.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Walton,
Texasbluesman...I agree "Holy Cow!"

As for the pilot, that is an amazing amount of work he has done. The video is something to watch.

[Roux]

Originally posted by walton
http://coramnonjudice.blogspot.com/

Holy Cow!! :eek: [/*]

Well that explains a lot about Medvecky!

Did anyone read any of the reader comments in Deseret News article? It is simply astounding to me that some of those people can't seem to see a thing wrong with Theresa's marriage.

I noticed that in Theresa's diary she referred to Warren as "Father." I had also noticed -- guess I'm very nit-picky -- over the last few months never hearing any maternal term other than "Mother." No Mommy, Mom, Mama, no Dad, Daddy, Pop, Poppa. I suppose when you eat healthy organic foods and dress modestly you have to use formal terms for your parents.

[juliekan]

Originally posted by Imperfect
Hello!

We're back from the holiday.

Anyone home? :D [/*]

Back from 2 weeks at the beach...will stop by later and read

:seeya:

[juliekan]

http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_9944477

Polygamy hearing: There may be a role for the federal government

Sen. Harry Reid contends that FLDS is a crime syndicate that has engaged in bribery, extortion, fraud, embezzlement, witness tampering and labor violations and wants the Justice Dept. to launch a racketeering investigation.


If nothing ever gets resolved about the underage marriages in San Angelo, at least maybe they can legally undermine the entire cult by attacking their other illegal activities, causing the eventual demise of the FLDS. JMO

[juliekan]

http://www.wkcurrent.com

YFZ may not have made use of programs in Texas, such as food stamps, but they're still using OUR Federal Tax Dollars. And my husband is self employed, so about a third of our income goes to taxes. :flamemad: So I'm helping support them too.
Above is a good recap how FLDS has used our tax dollars.

Gotta run to the store for hurricane stock-up before the rush. I always say, if I'm prepared, nothing will happen:tongue:

[lotty]

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700244874,00.html
Witness list released for Senate polygamy hearing
By Ben Winslow
Deseret News
Published: Monday, July 21, 2008 11:44 a.m. MDT
The U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee has released its witness list for Thursday's hearing in Washington, D.C., on crimes associated with polygamy.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by juliekan
http://www.wkcurrent.com

YFZ may not have made use of programs in Texas, such as food stamps, but they're still using OUR Federal Tax Dollars. And my husband is self employed, so about a third of our income goes to taxes. :flamemad: So I'm helping support them too.
Above is a good recap how FLDS has used our tax dollars.

Gotta run to the store for hurricane stock-up before the rush. I always say, if I'm prepared, nothing will happen:tongue: [/*]

Wow! I marvel at how succintly Lise Lieder Miller was able to compact all of the pertinent info & deliver the 'nutshell' version.

I thought it was very revealing to read that derogatory remarks were made to people of color who were working with the FLDS children. For the Southern Poverty Law Center to have taken enough notice of the FLDS to list them as a hate group is a very troubling sign, IMO.

Very heartening to read that the 18 volunteer chaplains with the Victim Relief Ministries all had good words to say about how the state workers treated the children. Makes me wonder even more about the anonymous letters that were sent - there was something about that whole thing that really did not ring true, to me.

I hope the Grand Jury members are all possessed of superior critical thinking skills because I think they are going to need it will all the easy lying the FLDS do.

Excerpt from above link -

When Utah’s comptroller took over the UEP Trust and Jeffs’ assets were frozen. FLDS workers dismantled several buildings like the grain elevator, machine shop and feed store. The dismantled structures were relocated or sold against court order. The furnishings and fixtures had evidently been previously stripped. Tractors, 18-wheelers and other vehicles disappeared under cover of darkness.

To recap, the FLDS church flagrantly ignores laws prohibiting sex with minors, repeatedly lies to officials, mismanaged public funds, dumped raw sewage into dry creek beds, refused to follow reasonable requirements for legal marriage for 16 year olds and counseled innocent children to lie about their fathers and ages so the men could avoid prosecution or financial responsibility.

[Mimi428]

This is Part 1 of the article that juliekan just posted the link to. It is written by Lise Lieder Miller.

http://www.wkcurrent.com/default.asp?sourceid=&smenu=71&twindow=&mad=&sdetail=1535&wpage=1&skeyword=&sidate=&ccat=&ccatm=&restate=&restatus=&reoption=&retype=&repmin=&repmax=&rebed=&rebath=&subname=&pform=&sc=1107&hn=wkcurrent&he=.com

Just one infuriating excerpt. . .

These records exhibited in court show a number of underage illegal marriages, with children resulting. More disturbing are the four girls illegally 'wedded' to Warren Jeffs at the Ranch between January of 2004 and July 2006 who are between 12 and 14 years of age. Records indicate one of these brides of the pedophile conceived at 15. Photos show Jeffs posing with the child and her newborn.

The 52-year old convicted Jeffs consummated three of the unions with the girls 38 years his junior in the inner sanctum of the YFZ Temple, according to a confidential informant working with law enforcement. The DNA test results provide additional evidence the state may need to indict Jeffs on aggravated sexual assault charges and habitual child rape. The names of children identified as victims of sexual abuse are not shown in public court records. Some of these assaults apparently occurred at YFZ while Jeffs was a fugitive from Utah's felony charges of accomplice to rape.

I wonder if the thought of additional charges regarding those 4 young girls has contributed to Warren's 'spells'.

[juliekan]

Originally posted by lotty
http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700244874,00.html
Witness list released for Senate polygamy hearing
By Ben Winslow
Deseret News
Published: Monday, July 21, 2008 11:44 a.m. MDT
The U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee has released its witness list for Thursday's hearing in Washington, D.C., on crimes associated with polygamy. [/*]

Surely this isn't only a one day hearing? I can think of a few more names I'd like to see on that list...

[lotty]

Originally posted by juliekan


Surely this isn't only a one day hearing? I can think of a few more names I'd like to see on that list... [/*]

It's a short list! I thought a few more names should be there as well. Who knows maybe they will be tied up with the grand jury. I definitely thought Sam Brower should be there, but if he is tied up in Texas. I don't know, how they would work all of that out.

[juliekan]

Originally posted by lotty


It's a short list! I thought a few more names should be there as well. Who knows maybe they will be tied up with the grand jury. I definitely thought Sam Brower should be there, but if he is tied up in Texas. I don't know, how they would work all of that out. [/*]

Definantly Sam...What about Bruce Wisan? Looks like they are just starting with state officials and cult specialists?

[juliekan]

Originally posted by Imperfect


As I was reading in this article about Rod Parker's outrage that no FLDS members have been invited to the hearing, all I could think was, "What would be the point? If they speak at all, it'll be to tell more lies."

Then I read the one comment to the article -- the poster said exactly what I was thinking. [/*]

So which WOMEN were they going to send with Willie to testify? We know the men all hide behind their skirts.......

[juliekan]

Originally posted by Imperfect


Good point.

How about Teresa and Annette? They seem to be able to lie with the best of em.

:rolleyes: [/*]

Walton would want Patricia Keate...not knowing about her drives Walton crazy ....a little national press and I bet we'd find out more about her. :D

[Roux]

That was an awesome article by Ms. Miller. I sat here just shaking my head; it makes quite an impact when you see it all laid out like that.

ITA that if called before Reid's hearing they would probably just lie, but I'd sure like to see them squirm and reach for an answer if confronted with specific accusations.

(O/T Imp, hope you had good weekend in mts & Juliekan her beach break.)

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by juliekan


So which WOMEN were they going to send with Willie to testify? We know the men all hide behind their skirts....... [/*]

ITA, if any of them appear, it will be the women. The men don't have the cajones to show up in person.

(I'm not close enough to need hurricane supplies but I sure as shootin' hope we get some RAIN here)

[walton]

Originally posted by juliekan


Walton would want Patricia Keate...not knowing about her drives Walton crazy ....a little national press and I bet we'd find out more about her. :D [/*]


And it does.

Hey check out that last link I put up in the link thread. The book called When Men Become Gods written by Stephen Singular. Has anyone read it?

I've seen him on tv talking about the story I didn't know he had written a book about it. Kinda cool huh?

I've been waiting for the trials to get done before I buy any books but man with all the books being written I might never get caught up.

I wish someone would write a book and tell me who has those dang keys. Heck they don't have to write a book, they can just tell me who has the keys. That would help end this whole mess. jmo

[walton]

Originally posted by juliekan
http://www.wkcurrent.com

YFZ may not have made use of programs in Texas, such as food stamps, but they're still using OUR Federal Tax Dollars. And my husband is self employed, so about a third of our income goes to taxes. :flamemad: So I'm helping support them too.
Above is a good recap how FLDS has used our tax dollars.

Gotta run to the store for hurricane stock-up before the rush. I always say, if I'm prepared, nothing will happen:tongue: [/*]

Awesome article!! Thanks for bringing the link over.

Here is part one of her special. http://wkcurrent.com/default.asp?sourceid=&smenu=71&twindow=&mad=No&sdetail=1535&wpage=&skeyword=&sidate=&ccat=&ccatm=&restate=&restatus=&reoption=&retype=&repmin=&repmax=&rebed=&rebath=&subname=&pform=&sc=1107&hn=wkcurrent&he=.com

I am hoping she writes more articles on this.

Hurricane? Your in Hurricane land? You and yours will be in my thoughts and prayers. Stay safe. :rose:

[walton]

Originally posted by Roux
That was an awesome article by Ms. Miller. I sat here just shaking my head; it makes quite an impact when you see it all laid out like that.

ITA that if called before Reid's hearing they would probably just lie, but I'd sure like to see them squirm and reach for an answer if confronted with specific accusations.

(O/T Imp, hope you had good weekend in mts & Juliekan her beach break.) [/*]

Yeah. Super article!!

I've been following the story for so long but even after reading this one it just kinda takes ones breath away with all the twists and turns and the length of time that all this has been ALLOWED to go on.

I am wondering what some of those attending the hearing will have to say. And if those listening will either step over the doo doo or if they will come up with some ideas on how to clean it all up.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by Mimi428
This is Part 1 of the article that juliekan just posted the link to. It is written by Lise Lieder Miller.

http://www.wkcurrent.com/default.asp?sourceid=&smenu=71&twindow=&mad=&sdetail=1535&wpage=1&skeyword=&sidate=&ccat=&ccatm=&restate=&restatus=&reoption=&retype=&repmin=&repmax=&rebed=&rebath=&subname=&pform=&sc=1107&hn=wkcurrent&he=.com

Just one infuriating excerpt. . .

These records exhibited in court show a number of underage illegal marriages, with children resulting. More disturbing are the four girls illegally 'wedded' to Warren Jeffs at the Ranch between January of 2004 and July 2006 who are between 12 and 14 years of age. Records indicate one of these brides of the pedophile conceived at 15. Photos show Jeffs posing with the child and her newborn.

The 52-year old convicted Jeffs consummated three of the unions with the girls 38 years his junior in the inner sanctum of the YFZ Temple, according to a confidential informant working with law enforcement. The DNA test results provide additional evidence the state may need to indict Jeffs on aggravated sexual assault charges and habitual child rape. The names of children identified as victims of sexual abuse are not shown in public court records. Some of these assaults apparently occurred at YFZ while Jeffs was a fugitive from Utah's felony charges of accomplice to rape.

I wonder if the thought of additional charges regarding those 4 young girls has contributed to Warren's 'spells'. [/*]

Thanks Mimi!! This is a great read. It read like a personal conversation with the writer. She covered all the points very well, capturing the essense of the evil the FLDS do in the name of religion.

I can't wait to read part 2.

:seeya:

[juliekan]

Originally posted by juliekan
http://www.wkcurrent.com

YFZ may not have made use of programs in Texas, such as food stamps, but they're still using OUR Federal Tax Dollars. And my husband is self employed, so about a third of our income goes to taxes. :flamemad: So I'm helping support them too.
Above is a good recap how FLDS has used our tax dollars.

Gotta run to the store for hurricane stock-up before the rush. I always say, if I'm prepared, nothing will happen:tongue: [/*]

Here's part 2, Katy. :seeya: But that was from today's issue, you may need to look for it at this link tomorrow.

[juliekan]

Originally posted by walton


Awesome article!! Thanks for bringing the link over.

Here is part one of her special. http://wkcurrent.com/default.asp?sourceid=&smenu=71&twindow=&mad=No&sdetail=1535&wpage=&skeyword=&sidate=&ccat=&ccatm=&restate=&restatus=&reoption=&retype=&repmin=&repmax=&rebed=&rebath=&subname=&pform=&sc=1107&hn=wkcurrent&he=.com

I am hoping she writes more articles on this.

Hurricane? Your in Hurricane land? You and yours will be in my thoughts and prayers. Stay safe. :rose: [/*]

Lise Lieder Miller is a terrific writer, i need to follow up on her and send her my appreciation for her articles. And thank you for your concern...we hope we are going to be a little north and east of the storm (more so than our house on the beach), it's just you never know in the Gulf. Had a chance to leave, and didn't, then had to ride out Alicia on the seawall in Galveston in the 80s, don't want to do any other hurricanes. I only do prep every year because I believe if I'm prepared, nothing happens! Has worked so far. :D

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by juliekan


Here's part 2, Katy. :seeya: But that was from today's issue, you may need to look for it at this link tomorrow. [/*]

Thank you juliekan!!

I really like the way this writer puts the information forward. You feel like she is having a conversation with you sitting across the table over coffee.

:seeya:

[lotty]

http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/20...SHOW_index.html
The Young Women of the F.L.D.S.

[KatyDid]

Ms. Miller summarizes the evil of this cult perfectly. Maybe the committe should print out her 2-part article to use as a road map in their discussions. :)

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by juliekan


Lise Lieder Miller is a terrific writer, i need to follow up on her and send her my appreciation for her articles. [/*]

Yes, she certainly is. I am so impressed that she and a small newspaper serving a couple of little communities have put together such a good overview of the whole Warren Jeffs, FLDS, YFZ collective mess.

I got the impression from reading her articles that she & her husband have been given information in more conversational settings than the typical interview-by-a-reporter situation.

This excerpt from the 1st article still sticks with me in a very troubling way.
http://www.wkcurrent.com/default.asp?sourceid=&smenu=71&twindow=&mad=&sdetail=1535&wpage=1&skeyword=&sidate=&ccat=&ccatm=&restate=&restatus=&reoption=&retype=&repmin=&repmax=&rebed=&rebath=&subname=&pform=&sc=1107&hn=wkcurrent&he=.com

A well known feature of the FLDS women is the long plaited hair. While the raid was progressing, young girls were told to grab just the necessities they could carry. For those with babies, this often meant whatever they could fit in the one free hand.

While most of us might have grabbed any number of toiletries (I would have taken a toothbrush) and clean undergarments, their choices were based on their identity in the group some have called a cult. Preteen girls left the large $1 million log structures with their hairspray and a brush in hand.

I just can't imagine the limited mindset of these young girls that their belief in the importance of their hairstyle took precedence over taking more practical toiletries than hairspray!

[juliekan]

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/jul/22/breaking-news-attorney-general-others-file-into/

BREAKING NEWS: Attorney General, others file into grand jury proceeding in Eldorado

Texas AG Greg Abbott at hearings today. Willie J is also there, says he will have a statement later today, and he "sees what they do to me today." Cops also pulled him over on US 277 North of Eldorado early this am. :tongue:

[juliekan]

Salt Lake Tribune states that Las Vegas Attorney Richard Wright accompanied Willie J to court today.

[Mimi428]

I was wondering why there was such a fuss when the cheek swab had to be repeated on Veda Keate's daughter - but seeing this photo & remembering what I have read about how the FLDS have strong racist beliefs, I think I can see where part of the problem was. It appears to me that the young man who was the investigator & was going to do the collection is a person of color.

http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2008/07/27/magazine/20080727_FLDS_SLIDESHOW_14.html

[juliekan]

Originally posted by Mimi428
I was wondering why there was such a fuss when the cheek swab had to be repeated on Veda Keate's daughter - but seeing this photo & remembering what I have read about how the FLDS have strong racist beliefs, I think I can see where part of the problem was. It appears to me that the young man who was the investigator & was going to do the collection is a person of color.

http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2008/07/27/magazine/20080727_FLDS_SLIDESHOW_14.html [/*]

Actually with that bald head and dark beard, he does look a little scary :chicken:

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by juliekan


Texas AG Greg Abbott at hearings today. Willie J is also there, says he will have a statement later today, and he "sees what they do to me today." Cops also pulled him over on US 277 North of Eldorado early this am. :tongue: [/*]

To serve him a subpoena!

http://www.sltrib.com/News/ci_9958624

FLDS spokesman Willy Jessop was pulled over and handed a subpoena early Tuesday morning to appear before a grand jury considering criminal charges against members of his polygamous sect.

:beer:

[juliekan]

Originally posted by Mimi428


To serve him a subpoena!

http://www.sltrib.com/News/ci_9958624

FLDS spokesman Willy Jessop was pulled over and handed a subpoena early Tuesday morning to appear before a grand jury considering criminal charges against members of his polygamous sect.

:beer: [/*]

Glad you found that! I wondered, since he showed up with his lawyer
:beer:

[Roux]

I can't get over the way the children are dressed. Not to be redundant on TX weather, but it has been 97 and 98 degrees the past few days. Even if those pix were taken in June, it was still over 90. How can you put a toddler in a long dress like that? How about the baby napping on the bed in long jeans? It is not healthy for children to be dressed like that.

[juliekan]

Originally posted by Roux
I can't get over the way the children are dressed. Not to be redundant on TX weather, but it has been 97 and 98 degrees the past few days. Even if those pix were taken in June, it was still over 90. How can you put a toddler in a long dress like that? How about the baby napping on the bed in long jeans? It is not healthy for children to be dressed like that. [/*]

Just imagine the heat and diaper rashes :eek:

[lotty]

<respectfully snipped>
Originally posted by Imperfect
First -- apologies to CW for posting on the links thread yesterday. I guess I forgot which thread I was on.

lotty -- interesting link with the pics of the FLDS teenagers. I'm not sure what to make of it, honestly.

It also makes me sad that they all look so dang uncomfortable in all that clothing. The toddler sleeping on the bed was fully dressed in long pants and long sleeves, IIRC. How can they ever relax or have any fun in all that starched, pressed fabric, and those hairdos on the females? I did see the trampoline and the tricycle, but I can't much believe either gets much use. Those kids are scrubbed within an inch of their lives, and so are their clothes. That's fine for church ... but all day, every day?

I'm also wondering why it was Jeffs' families, almost exclusively, that gave access for the photos. Some sort of misguided PR campaign, perhaps? [/*]

My impression of these photos or any photos of FLDS members, they never look comfortable. They may be totally comfortable in photos, I don't know if it is the clothes or the camera, but it appears to me that they always look stiff. I think to see them relaxed would probably surprise me. It does make me wonder if they appear this way all of the time (I think so,) or if they are actually able to really cut loose sometimes (I don't think so.) As always JMO/IMO.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by juliekan


Here's part 2, Katy. :seeya: But that was from today's issue, you may need to look for it at this link tomorrow. [/*]

Part 2, another great read!!

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by juliekan
http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/jul/22/breaking-news-attorney-general-others-file-into/

BREAKING NEWS: Attorney General, others file into grand jury proceeding in Eldorado

Texas AG Greg Abbott at hearings today. Willie J is also there, says he will have a statement later today, and he "sees what they do to me today." Cops also pulled him over on US 277 North of Eldorado early this am. :tongue: [/*]

I hope they trip up Willie J. :D

[lotty]

Thoughts on the FLDS Young Women photos, and a lack of in depth reporting. I agree. It's what completely interests me about Willie being the spokesman for the FLDS, he will say things that will never be said by attorneys or silence. As always JMO/IMO.

http://www.motherjones.com/riff_blog/archives/2008/07/9084_yearning_for_be.html

[juliekan]

Originally posted by juliekan
http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/jul/22/breaking-news-attorney-general-others-file-into/

BREAKING NEWS: Attorney General, others file into grand jury proceeding in Eldorado

Texas AG Greg Abbott at hearings today. Willie J is also there, says he will have a statement later today, and he "sees what they do to me today." Cops also pulled him over on US 277 North of Eldorado early this am. :tongue: [/*]

This article was updated at 2:46 today, no indictments yet. Man named Ben (FLDS) stated that the women called to testify would invoke their 5th amendment rights.

[juliekan]

http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_9960907


Now they're trying to drag Malonis through the mud. Teresa Jeff's request to change lawyers cites that Malonis's ex-husband got full custody of their 2 kids.

[lotty]

Originally posted by juliekan
http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_9960907


Now they're trying to drag Malonis through the mud. Teresa Jeff's request to change lawyers cites that Malonis's ex-husband got full custody of their 2 kids. [/*]

Too bizarre! I actually think she (Malonis) has done her job well, since the big public blow up when Teresa Jeffs let the cat out of the bag. JMO

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by juliekan
http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_9960907


Now they're trying to drag Malonis through the mud. Teresa Jeff's request to change lawyers cites that Malonis's ex-husband got full custody of their 2 kids. [/*]

I can't even begin to imagine how in the world the judge would take seriously a motion stating "personal behavior" of attorney Natalie Malonis, who represents her in an ongoing child welfare investigation, demonstrates "choices that brought her judgment, lifestyle and her ability to cope with responsibilities and obligations into question."

This is just one more of those incidences like the so-called doctor & supposed child advocate writing letters in a fashion that real professionals in their fields don't DO.

Just my personal opinion, but I think a great deal of this stems from the FLDS living such isolated lives of being told what to do, what to believe, etc. that they cannot comprehend the very idea of critical thinking.

Poor judge Walther, what a burden it must be for her to have to tolerate these sorts of shenanigans.

JMO

[Mimi428]

From the Houston Chronicle -

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/hotstories/5900712.html

Very complicated day, it seems. The women/girls called to testify were supposedly told they would have immunity from prosecution on the state level, however, the question was raised about whether federal prosecutors would honor such immunity.

Greg Abbott, our AG, was present in order to oversee the staff of state attorneys & how they presented evidence.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by juliekan


This article was updated at 2:46 today, no indictments yet. Man named Ben (FLDS) stated that the women called to testify would invoke their 5th amendment rights. [/*]

the 5th amendment...the right not to self-incriminate oneself in a crime.

well, ya know what i think about people who take the 5th...they wouldn't be taking the 5th if they were not involved in some way with the crime.

hammer

jmo~~of course

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by Imperfect


Interesting blog entry, lotty. I think one of the things I find most frustrating about all this is that we may never hear much of anything from those women. And for many of us, it's like we NEED to hear how in the name of all that is holy they could think the way they live is a good idea or a legacy to pass down to their children.

I think the insider's look must come through books ex-FLDS members write, like those by Carolyn Jessop and Elissa Wall.

The Texas FLDS women really leave me no choice but to believe that their lives truly are more about horror than happiness, and that their silence and scripted responses to questions are so they can continue to hide and deny that reality.

You would think that pure instinct would inform at least some of them that if you're living a life that involves constantly hiding from and lying to anyone and everyone outside your community -- there's something inherently wrong with the way you're living. [/*]

IF the FLDS are the only righteous people in the world and all others are evil and the devil, then what in heaven's name is God waiting for, if you believe the FLDS diatribe.

If out of millions and millions of people in the world, the only ones that are righteous are the 15,000 or so FLDS members...

I just don't get it. These people have lost all ability to view life with any kind of logic. And by golly, they CAN do math. Well, maybe not Willie J. :biggrin:

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by Imperfect


I give Malonis major credit for getting into the middle of this. It would've been so much easier to buy the lies and move on with her life. There's a point at which trying to help someone who refuses to be helped becomes more trouble than its worth. Especially when you've got a clown like Willie running back and forth, making sure all the sheep keep their mouths shut. [/*]

And we also have to keep in mind the list the Texas Rangers had compiled of the 'goon squad' sort of men that are also smack in the middle of the FLDS. I have had serious concerns about Malonis' safety once it became known that she was opposing Willie J.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by juliekan
http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_9960907


Now they're trying to drag Malonis through the mud. Teresa Jeff's request to change lawyers cites that Malonis's ex-husband got full custody of their 2 kids. [/*]

So they want to play dirty huh?

If I was Malonis I would tell them to bring it on.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by Imperfect


Yep ... and he's sufficiently out of touch with reality to think he could make a person disappear and no one would be the wiser. And if he's clever enough to pull it off like they probably pulled off the torching of the governor's mansion, he could conceivably get away with it.

I hope Malonis and Walther have security in place.

Stupidity + ego + living in a parallel universe = anything is possible. [/*]

Judge Walther had security at one time. I bet as long as she is on this case, the security will continue.

Could Malonis request security if she felt she needed it?

[Roux]

Originally posted by juliekan
http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_9960907


Now they're trying to drag Malonis through the mud. Teresa Jeff's request to change lawyers cites that Malonis's ex-husband got full custody of their 2 kids. [/*]

From the article on Teresa's new filing, "...Malonis has argued, cajoled, threatened and all but called the child a liar."

After CASA's report last week, we all now know that the child is indeed a liar.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by Imperfect


I dunno. I would certainly think so, but I don't know if the state would fund it.

I have to believe that there are enough Texas Rangers and other LE who would happily watch out for her -- maybe even pro bono. :cool: [/*]

Yeppers, I betcha there are some who would do it pro bono. ;)

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by Imperfect


I find myself wishing that every time an FLDS member was quoted in the press, there would be an identifier about the lying right along with any other descriptive identifiers.

For example: Teresa Jeffs, 16, daughter of Warren Jeffs and known liar said, "IamnotspirituallymarriedBlahblahblah."

Willie Jessop, a/k/a Willie the Thug, 30-something, FLDS spokesman and known liar stated that, "TexasispickingonmewahwahBlahblusterblah."

Sarah 'RoboMom' Barlow, 32, 3rd spiritual wife of Dan Barlow, mother of 12, grower of organic veggies and known liar said, 'WejustwantthechildrenbackBlahblahblah."

:rolleyes:

It disturbs me that anyone is taking anything out of their mouths on blind faith.

IMO all over the place. [/*]

:D no Willie...Texas isn't picking on you, it's your own compadres picking on you...throwing you to the wolves. What have they promised you Willie? Why do they hide WIllie?

[BorderCollieMom]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080723/ap_on_re_us/polygamist_retreat_11


Sorry if this is a dup.


ELDORADO, Texas - A Texas grand jury Tuesday indicted polygamist sect leader Warren Jeffs and four of his followers on charges of felony sexual assault of a child. Another was indicted for failing to report child abuse.

Attorney General Greg Abbott said the five men are charged with one count of sexually assaulting girls under the age of 17. One of them, but not Jeffs, faces an additional charge of bigamy.

Abbott said a sixth member of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is charged with three counts of failure to report child abuse.
more at link

[juliekan]

Originally posted by Imperfect


I dunno. I would certainly think so, but I don't know if the state would fund it.

I have to believe that there are enough Texas Rangers and other LE who would happily watch out for her -- maybe even pro bono. :cool: [/*]

Can't quote the site, but read something the other day that indicated she was still under guard. Hope Malonis is also. Don't forget this is Texas, you betcha that it's "pro bono". :patriot:

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by KatyDid


So they want to play dirty huh?

If I was Malonis I would tell them to bring it on. [/*]

I can't say that I would ever be that bold. With such a large group of people willing to do WHATEVER the 'prophet' demands, it is too risky to assume that no one will ever be told that the 'prophet' wants person X or Y or Z to be snuffed out. A demand like that would be couched in terms to make the person believe they would not go to heaven if they didn't obey.

This whole group is already so entrenched in the 'kiss up, kick down' mentality that I doubt the upper tier would have sufficient doubts to prevent them from sending some lower ranking fool on a mission to eliminate someone who has been labeled a demon or a devil or sent from Satan.

The same blind obedience combined with a martyr mentality exists, I believe, in this group as it does in those who convince young men & women overseas to go on suicide missions. They promise them rewards in heaven, they fill their heads with such inflamed rhetoric that they become convinced they are doing the right thing in God's eyes.

JMO

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by Imperfect


Now it'll be interesting to see if the other men will turn themselves in, or keep running like their fearless prophet did when he was a wanted man.

[/*]

I hope arrests are made quickly & we learn the identities & the specific charges. On the other hand, I think it has been obvious to all of us that the majority of the menfolks have made themselves mighty scarce.

But let's now ponder on this - if these men are apprehended & charged with sexually assaulting minors, those minors are most likely still quite young, since the law raising the legal age for marriage in TX has only recently been changed.

That means that these young women will be out of the 'breeding pool' unless ol' Warren gets a new revelation to take them away from their current (locked up) husbands & assigns them to another husband who can keep the whole bunch of them impregnated. If there is one thing this band of evil men are committed to, it is to keep these women pregnant as often as possible.

JMO

[Mimi428]

Ay yi yi! I don't know where my brain has been, but I had not even thought about the fact that Warren will have to be brought to Texas to face these charges. AG Abbott is apparently going to be working on getting him extradited here. I wonder where in the world they will hold him???

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gqKV2A61srElnsUHvhTfHkIsQ3fQ

Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott said Tuesday he hopes to extradite sect leader Warren Jeffs, who was convicted last year of being an accomplice to rape and is currently in an Arizona jail.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by Imperfect


I can't imagine that things in the FLDS cult -- at least in Texas -- will return to anything approaching business as usual for the foreseeable future.

This is BIG, IMO. Their entire upper echelon is either in jail or heading there or permanently in hiding.

I can't imagine there's a lower level of hierarchy that has been groomed to take over -- Warren was way too much of a paranoid control freak to have any sort of succession plan. All that's left are followers -- no leaders.

And IMO, there's too much scrutiny of the group now, in other states, and at the federal level, for them to get away with even half what they've gotten away with for years. [/*]

ITA with you, I think this is big, very big.

Somewhere, somehow, somebody has continued to have access to huge amounts of cash. If the upper tier ends up either hiding so well that they can't control daily activities, or if they end up in jail, I am wondering if the leaders of the split-off groups will be making a sort of 'coup' attempt to come in & take over with the fractured followers who are left.

I agree with grammy when she commented that these followers will still need & will SEEK someone who will tell them what to do. And when. And how.

If this was a group of less than 100 grownups, I would have more confidence that the hierarchy could be so completely dismantled that it would not re-group with a new leader. But this bunch is so used to being followers I fear a whole lot of them will just fall in line behind the next man bold enough to declare himself a prophet.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by Imperfect


Me thinks Warren's last appearance in court will look like a walk in the park compared to what's in store for him in Texas. [/*]

I have to wonder if Schleicher County will try to find a bigger county facility to hold him. I'm thinking maybe Tom Green County, which is where San Angelo is located. Warren is entirely too high profile for the typical manpower of a small county to keep up with.

(now it would REALLY be interesting if there was any chance he would come to my county, cuz my former son-in-law works in corrections here...)

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by Imperfect


Now THAT would be cool. :cool: Walton, in particular, would like to be able to keep tabs on Warren's jail time. :D [/*]

Don't want to go completely O/T, but I will say that the unofficial motto in this county (among LE) is "arrive on vacation, leave on probation". IOW, they believe in law & order, law & order, law & order.

I can't imagine either Schleicher or Tom Green County would be a walk in the park, either.

[dellbelle]

Originally posted by Imperfect
Don't mess with Texas. :cool:

So ... where's King Willie? Wasn't he due to hold a presser this afternoon after his long day in court?

Wonder if he's the 6th member charged with failure to report child abuse?

Oh Willie .. we're waiting ...! :chicken: [/*]

Could the 6th member charged be Annette Jeffs because she allowed her three of her minor daughters to be married?

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by Imperfect


Couldn't happen to a nicer fella that Warren Steed Jeffs. :D

I can about imagine how kindly Texas LE and other inmates will look on a serial child molester and abuser. Especially one who weighs about 80 lbs. soaking wet and thinks he's a frickin prophet. [/*]

Did I tell you about the ongoing problem we have in Texas (& elsewhere, I know) of prison gangs? Ol' Warren, if he has not already, will have to get used to people of color being around him, at the very least.

There exists in every jail some young punk who knows he is going to go to the bigger prison & he wants, needs & craves the protection of one of the prison gangs. - That sort of punk is very easily manipulated to commit violence. The older members, the ones who have already established their reputations never lift a finger - they don't have to. This is one reason why I believe Warren is way too high profile to be managed by a smaller county facility with less manpower.

If he ever ends up in TDCJ, I'm sure the Aryan Brotherhood will be more than happy to offer him 'protection' - in exchange for a whole lotta cash.

[dellbelle]

Originally posted by Imperfect


I was wondering, too, if it was one of the sect women, but I just came across something that referred to the 6th member as a 'him.' Can't recall which link, though. (I've been reading like a madwoman. :D ) [/*]

Thanks for replying to me!
I've been trying to read a lot too.
This is why I think it may be Annette...
I hope I posted it right so you can follow it--
See this link http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_9962290?source=rss

The grand jury handed down seven indictments, which contained a total of nine charges. Jeffs, currently awaiting trial in Arizona, is accused of one first-degree felony count of sexually assaulting a child.
Four other men were indicted for allegedly sexually assaulting girls under the age of 17. Each of those suspects faces one felony count of sex assault, and one faces an additional charge of bigamy.
The final defendant has been charged with three counts of failure to report child abuse.

Then in this link http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/Polygamist_sect_members_refusing_to_answer_questio ns.html

One of the women who was called before the grand jury today was a 16-year-old at the center of a civil battle over which attorney is to represent her. The teen was married at age 15 to 34-year-old Raymond Jessop, the son of Jeffs’ top deputy, Merrill Jessop.
Two of her sisters are also married to Raymond Jessop.
Also called before the grand jury were:
Leann Jeffs, 17, who has a 1-year-old daughter.
Annette Jeffs, Warren Jeffs’ first wife and the mother of the 16-year-old who was also called to testify.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by dellbelle


Could the 6th member charged be Annette Jeffs because she allowed her three of her minor daughters to be married? [/*]

I have been wondering about that, too. Several of the news articles give the impression that all the charges are against men, but since AG Abbott did not release the names of anyone other than Warren, I don't think we can be completely assured that the one last person is also a male.

I do think she would be an appropriate woman to start with, on the "failure to protect" aspect. I wonder how many of her own daughters besides Teresa were married off as minors...

[juliekan]

Originally posted by Mimi428


ITA with you, I think this is big, very big.

Somewhere, somehow, somebody has continued to have access to huge amounts of cash. If the upper tier ends up either hiding so well that they can't control daily activities, or if they end up in jail, I am wondering if the leaders of the split-off groups will be making a sort of 'coup' attempt to come in & take over with the fractured followers who are left.

I agree with grammy when she commented that these followers will still need & will SEEK someone who will tell them what to do. And when. And how.

If this was a group of less than 100 grownups, I would have more confidence that the hierarchy could be so completely dismantled that it would not re-group with a new leader. But this bunch is so used to being followers I fear a whole lot of them will just fall in line behind the next man bold enough to declare himself a prophet. [/*]

Good points. I don't think we will have split-offs show up, but the group could further disintegrate (I wrote degenerate to begin with LOL) with in-fighting for control...because we all know there is money for the taking out there somewhere, and women for the taking out there, and power over a lot of people who have never learned to think for themselves. No matter what happens with the indictments, the group has to be in disarray, and men on the run. Just feel awful for the families that totally believe and must feel really scared now. I know, I'm showing my weak spot. :punch:

[juliekan]

Originally posted by dellbelle


Thanks for replying to me!
I've been trying to read a lot too.
This is why I think it may be Annette...
I hope I posted it right so you can follow it--
See this link http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_9962290?source=rss

The grand jury handed down seven indictments, which contained a total of nine charges. Jeffs, currently awaiting trial in Arizona, is accused of one first-degree felony count of sexually assaulting a child.
Four other men were indicted for allegedly sexually assaulting girls under the age of 17. Each of those suspects faces one felony count of sex assault, and one faces an additional charge of bigamy.
The final defendant has been charged with three counts of failure to report child abuse.

Then in this link http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/Polygamist_sect_members_refusing_to_answer_questio ns.html

One of the women who was called before the grand jury today was a 16-year-old at the center of a civil battle over which attorney is to represent her. The teen was married at age 15 to 34-year-old Raymond Jessop, the son of Jeffs’ top deputy, Merrill Jessop.
Two of her sisters are also married to Raymond Jessop.
Also called before the grand jury were:
Leann Jeffs, 17, who has a 1-year-old daughter.
Annette Jeffs, Warren Jeffs’ first wife and the mother of the 16-year-old who was also called to testify. [/*]

:seeya: belle, welcome to the boards. Thanks for the links, I was out playing bunco tonight and am just catching up with the news.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by juliekan


Good points. I don't think we will have split-offs show up, but the group could further disintegrate (I wrote degenerate to begin with LOL) with in-fighting for control...because we all know there is money for the taking out there somewhere, and women for the taking out there, and power over a lot of people who have never learned to think for themselves. No matter what happens with the indictments, the group has to be in disarray, and men on the run. Just feel awful for the families that totally believe and must feel really scared now. I know, I'm showing my weak spot. :punch: [/*]

I don't think you have a weak spot at all. Other people have literally made it their life's work to study rigid, fundamentalist religious cults & one of the truly devastating consequences is that even those who break away continue to have many troubles with not being able to comprehend how to engage in critical thinking or how to view themselves as autonomous human beings. They are so indoctrinated to be obedient without thinking & without questioning & they suffer from not knowing how to CHOOSE & DECIDE for themselves what to do, how to live, etc.

So they fall prey to others who are more than willing to manipulate & manuever them. And that is a sad fate for anyone.

JMO

[juliekan]

I've been over the Bishop's list 3 times and cannot find Leann, Annette, or Teresa Jeffs names. I'm either tired and missing them or that page was pulled?

[juliekan]

Bishop's List again: Also noticed that Allen E Keate had 2 children listed as 3 mo. old and 5 mo. old......not even named yet. Never noticed that before. How could they not even have a name for the kids yet?

[walton]

Originally posted by Imperfect


I find myself wishing that every time an FLDS member was quoted in the press, there would be an identifier about the lying right along with any other descriptive identifiers.

For example: Teresa Jeffs, 16, daughter of Warren Jeffs and known liar said, "IamnotspirituallymarriedBlahblahblah."

Willie Jessop, a/k/a Willie the Thug, 30-something, FLDS spokesman and known liar stated that, "TexasispickingonmewahwahBlahblusterblah."

Sarah 'RoboMom' Barlow, 32, 3rd spiritual wife of Dan Barlow, mother of 12, grower of organic veggies and known liar said, 'WejustwantthechildrenbackBlahblahblah."

:rolleyes:

It disturbs me that anyone is taking anything out of their mouths on blind faith.

IMO all over the place. [/*]

:D This whole post is a keeper!! The area in which I live give family members their own little nicknames but dang.... they all should come to you for suggestions.

Love it. Just love it.

[juliekan]

Originally posted by walton


:D This whole post is a keeper!! The area in which I live give family members their own little nicknames but dang.... they all should come to you for suggestions.

Love it. Just love it. [/*]

Best post :beer:

[walton]

Originally posted by Mimi428


And we also have to keep in mind the list the Texas Rangers had compiled of the 'goon squad' sort of men that are also smack in the middle of the FLDS. I have had serious concerns about Malonis' safety once it became known that she was opposing Willie J. [/*]

Has anyone seen or heard from evalles?


Check this out: http://www.flds.ws/who-is-bill-medvecky-and-why-does-he-hate-us-so-very-much/

I hope that secure measures are being taken for all those involved. jmo

[walton]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700245096,00.html


The law firm that once represented the Fundamentalist LDS Church is fighting subpoenas to hand over documents to the court-controlled real estate arm of the polygamous sect.
Lawyers for the United Effort Plan Trust served the subpoenas on Snow, Christensen & Martineau, seeking to compel the law firm into handing over documents. The firm is resisting, arguing attorney-client privilege.


How would this work out in court? If they are no longer representing Warren is it still considered lawyer client privlege?

Hmmm interesting avenue to take. imo

But wow!! Could you imagine if this is allowed?

[juliekan]

Originally posted by walton
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700245096,00.html


The law firm that once represented the Fundamentalist LDS Church is fighting subpoenas to hand over documents to the court-controlled real estate arm of the polygamous sect.
Lawyers for the United Effort Plan Trust served the subpoenas on Snow, Christensen & Martineau, seeking to compel the law firm into handing over documents. The firm is resisting, arguing attorney-client privilege.


How would this work out in court? If they are no longer representing Warren is it still considered lawyer client privlege?

Hmmm interesting avenue to take. imo

But wow!! Could you imagine if this is allowed? [/*]

I'm no lawyer, but I don't think you can get around the lawyer/client privilege. But yeah, the info...hmmmmm.

[walton]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700245136,00.html

Looking ahead to Thursday's hearing before the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee on crimes associated with polygamy, Utah Sen. Orrin Hatch said it will show that polygamy is not just a "Utah problem."
In a statement to the Deseret News on Tuesday, Hatch said the hearing will give state and federal law enforcement a chance to talk about their efforts. Hatch is a member of the powerful committee.

"As we have seen just this year, polygamy is not merely a 'Utah problem.' Recent enforcement efforts have shown that polygamists have set up shop in states around the country such as Arizona, Nevada, Texas and others," Hatch said. "I look forward to hearing the witnesses' testimonies concerning the tools and means they are using to effectively crack down on those who practice polygamy."





Good thing Hatch is speaking up. :rolleyes: I don't care for Hatch. I think he is lazy and overpaid. jmo

This whole thing about involving the FLDS in on the meeting is BS. Does the LE invite other criminals in on their game plans when it comes time to investigate their activities? Maybe it will be the new trend for the future. BS pure BS.

The reason that these other states are NOW having issues is because Utah gave them a free ride for over hundred years. I don't know if Hatch really believes what he is saying but I ain't buying it. I would love to see on paper what Hatch has done to help stop the abuse.

[juliekan]

Eva's been over on the Caylee Anthony site, there was a bail hearing today for the child's mother that was a little crazy.

[walton]

Originally posted by juliekan


I'm no lawyer, but I don't think you can get around the lawyer/client privilege. But yeah, the info...hmmmmm. [/*]

:seeya: Hey there juliekan

Have you had those highwinds yet? Keepin' ya in my thoughts.

julie was it you that said you were going to write to Lise Lieder Miller? Does she work for that paper? or was that one of those AP things that gets carried all over?

I looked for an addy but couldn't find anything...pm me if ya find an addy will ya?

Thanks

[juliekan]

Originally posted by walton
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700245136,00.html

<snipped>
Good thing Hatch is speaking up. :rolleyes: I don't care for Hatch. I think he is lazy and overpaid. jmo

This whole thing about involving the FLDS in on the meeting is BS. Does the LE invite other criminals in on their game plans when it comes time to investigate their activities? Maybe it will be the new trend for the future. BS pure BS.

The reason that these other states are NOW having issues is because Utah gave them a free ride for over hundred years. I don't know if Hatch really believes what he is saying but I ain't buying it. I would love to see on paper what Hatch has done to help stop the abuse. [/*]

:lol: Yes I want the meth lab workers and insider traders etc. to have an open forum in the future, maybe we'll put Willie J in charge of that.

What IS Hatch's point in getting riled up now? Up for re-election?

[juliekan]

Originally posted by walton


:seeya: Hey there juliekan

Have you had those highwinds yet? Keepin' ya in my thoughts.

julie was it you that said you were going to write to Lise Lieder Miller? Does she work for that paper? or was that one of those AP things that gets carried all over?

I looked for an addy but couldn't find anything...pm me if ya find an addy will ya?

Thanks [/*]

I wrote the paper she works for, hope she gets the big thumbs up I sent for her eloquent articles. Couldn't find another addy,yet.

[walton]

Originally posted by juliekan


:lol: Yes I want the meth lab workers and insider traders etc. to have an open forum in the future, maybe we'll put Willie J in charge of that.

What IS Hatch's point in getting riled up now? Up for re-election? [/*]

Hatch is trying to save face. Won't work though. The sweat beads on his forehead are not from the high temps. Again jmo

I wonder if Warren contributed any pennies from Heaven towards the Hatch fund?

[juliekan]

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_9959809

Senate leader to push polygamy victims bill

"As people get a closer look into these polygamous groups they're able to see some of the crimes that are committed." Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.

[juliekan]

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700245230,00.html

FLDS members indicted

Four of the men indicted on charges of sexual abuse of a child face this: "1st degree felonies carry a potential of 99 years in prison or even a life sentence."

"We are certainly shocked," FLDS member Willie (wahwahBlahblusterblah) Jessop said. "We'll face those allegations as soon as we know who they're looking for."

"I believe they're not in the area" Schleicher County Sheriff David Doran said.

[juliekan]

Just googled Lise Lieder Miller, who wrote the great articles we were discussing (did it night before last but did not see In Session included) Mimi they're quoting you....must have liked your use of "succinct" :beer:

[walton]

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/jul/22/six-indicted-in-flds/

"It's the continued harassment of FLDS for the women to be drug out in the sun all day," Willie Jessop, FLDS spokesperson, said before the indictments were announced.



Odd that he is concerned about them being in the "sun all day". Where was his voice when they were working the fields with small children?


Oh Willie boy...:punch:

[lotty]

Originally posted by juliekan
http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700245230,00.html

FLDS members indicted

Four of the men indicted on charges of sexual abuse of a child face this: "1st degree felonies carry a potential of 99 years in prison or even a life sentence."

"We are certainly shocked," FLDS member Willie (wahwahBlahblusterblah) Jessop said. "We'll face those allegations as soon as we know who they're looking for."

"I believe they're not in the area" Schleicher County Sheriff David Doran said. [/*]

Wow! On the indictments, I just found out this morning!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"We are certainly shocked," FLDS member Willie (wahwahBlahblusterblah) Jessop said. "We'll face those allegations as soon as we know who they're looking for."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is what I find so interesting, who does Willie actually think believes this? He just keeps on spouting, I thought yesterday when he said he might have a comment depending on what the GJ did to him. Who was he kidding, I knew he was going to make a comment, I don't think he could NOT comment. JMO

Who does anyone remember in the past that would speak for the FLDS? No one! Now we get to hear how gullible they believe we are. Listening to Willie's comments and statements, says a lot about what they think of us on the outside. JMO

As for the mothers, I believe they are all in on this. I think every single FLDS member knows that many of their practices are illegal. I think it is taught as early as possible so that lies will be told by everyone to protect them. The youngest to the oldest never speak the truth unless they leave or are kicked out (not necessarily even then.) It must be like teaching an oral history. JMO

[lotty]

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iIdMpRHjN4hpNKBhfYyAsR4DDo4QD923EVVO0
Texas grand jury indicts polygamist sect members
By MICHELLE ROBERTS – 5 hours ago

"We're actually quite shocked. As soon as we know who they're looking for, we'll try to face it," Willie Jessop, a church member and spokesman, told The Associated Press in an interview Tuesday. "We believe in our innocence."

He said he didn't know who was indicted and that no one from law enforcement had tried to enter the ranch Tuesday evening.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think this means:
1. House of hiding (look at the Bishops Records.)
2. Pringle
3. Bountiful
4. Westcliffe, Mancos

I think who they are looking for are long gone, except Warren of course.
"We'll try to face it" I think this just means, FLDS is going to do their best to hide them, and we on the outside get an ear full of Willie, as LE tries to find the others. How long before Willie trips himself up?

What do you think Willie will have to say (to the media) in D.C. Thursday?
As always JMO/IMO.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by walton



Check this out: http://www.flds.ws/who-is-bill-medvecky-and-why-does-he-hate-us-so-very-much/

I hope that secure measures are being taken for all those involved. jmo [/*]

Not only is this man seriously disturbed, it appears he is proud of it. By his own acknowledgment & declaration, he is willing to commit violence.

Excerpt...


If the goons think they have a problem with Willie, they need to thank their lucky stars I wasn’t within a casual drive from the Ranch on the 3rd of April. As they’ll probably tell you the citizen that doesn’t fear them is probably the most dangerous of all; they know to go for the head.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by walton


julie was it you that said you were going to write to Lise Lieder Miller? Does she work for that paper? or was that one of those AP things that gets carried all over?

I looked for an addy but couldn't find anything...pm me if ya find an addy will ya?

Thanks [/*]

As far as I can tell, LLM lives somewhere near Sonora, Texas where her husband has a business. Population of Sonora is about 3,000 & the town is about 65 miles south of San Angelo.

I believe she has (so far) only written for the West Kerr Current. I cannot stress enough how it has impressed me to find that a very small newspaper has such a gem of a writer contributing. Ingram has a population of about 2,000, Mountain Home, which is not exactly a town but more of a stretched out community has a population of less than 1,000 (I have kinfolks who used to live there), Hunt has around 700.

I hope she is able to continue her coverage of the FLDS & I emailed the newspaper yesterday to express my thanks to them & to her for her articles.

[lotty]

Originally posted by Mimi428


Not only is this man seriously disturbed, it appears he is proud of it. By his own acknowledgment & declaration, he is willing to commit violence.

Excerpt...


If the goons think they have a problem with Willie, they need to thank their lucky stars I wasn’t within a casual drive from the Ranch on the 3rd of April. As they’ll probably tell you the citizen that doesn’t fear them is probably the most dangerous of all; they know to go for the head. [/*]
I think he is a very scary person...the first time I saw nazi and gestapo on the website, which was right away, I was bothered by the whole thing. I've only looked at that site three times (maybe) and once was to read the quote posted.

I also have a problem with this...Notice who the people in the New York Times Magazine were? Notice who was at the courthouse yesterday? All with ties to Warren. Why pics of them? Are they trying to convince everyone they are normal, I don't understand their logic. What about the people with lesser ties to Warren (since I think everyone there is tied to Warren one way or another,) how do they live, now? The FLDS seems bent on putting pictures and names of the people involved in the public, if they are female. The magazine photos named one male through all of the pics an 8yo. Yet, one man in the photos is identified as one of Warren's son in laws, no name, shouldn't he be an adult? They can identify every female by name and age, but not him? Did you also notice in almost every pic, there is someone in the background watching? Tricycle, look on the couch. Trampoline, look on the roof. Swingset, look at the back door.
As always JMO/IMO

[Mimi428]

From what we have read so far, I believe Willie J. really doesn't know the identities of those who have been indicted & I would bet that LE has no intentions of telling him.

I think it is at least possible (not sure of the percentage of probability, though) that those indicted might actually turn themselves in.

If they hide out in FLDS locations those locations had better be completely without any records whatsoever, because as soon as LE shows up to get them, anything in plain sight is subject to being taken. I personally think they are all still smarting like the dickens over knowing that the Bishop's records are out of their hands.

Lotty & Imperfect - ITA that Medvecky is self-centered & obsessed with his own issues & the FLDS simply provided a fortuitious vehicle for him to voice his rants.

JMO

[Mimi428]

Our fellow poster, Details, brought up the notion that the person who has been indicted for "failure to report" may be the doctor. I hadn't thought of that, but I think that is highly possible. Doctors are mandatory reporters in this state. If he was treating pregnant minors he had a legal obligation to report that to CPS.

So let's speculate that it is the physician. If he is indicted, his records are subject to be requested in a search warrant. Hmmmmm.

[lotty]

Originally posted by Imperfect


lotty ... great catch! It went right over my head that the males weren't identified. I also didn't notice the 'watchers,' but that doesn't surprise me in the least. I'll have to go back and look at the photos again (much as they disturb me).

Interesting that in a cult(ure) where toys are frowned upon, we have pics of a trike, a trampoline and a swingset. Now I'll have to see if they look brand new.

This is feeling more and more staged to me. For what purpose I have no idea, since I really don't think those photos successfully portray any level of 'normal.'

Probably Willie's idea. :rolleyes: [/*]
I think a lot of things that happen are Willie's ideas. The big PR push after the children were removed. The June 3rd statement that FLDS does not and will not recognize or condone underage marriages...when lo' and behold two to three weeks later Teresa Jeffs is going public, and Natalie Malonis is seeking a restraining order against Willie Jessop to stay away from Teresa Jeffs. I seem to recall a poster that argued vehemently that Malonis was making it all up.
I don't know if Willie thinks I (the public) will remember his statements and forget the rest of what is going on. The math and logic is pretty weird if you look closely.

From the photos LeAnn Jeffs 17yo with 1yo daughter. I'm no scholar, but 17 - 1 = 16, take away another 9 months...
As always JMO/IMO.

[lotty]

Imperfect,
ITA! You summed it up very well.:beer:

[dellbelle]

Hey and thanks to everyone who replied to me and welcomed me to the boardlast night!
The following link http://www.imagineclay.com/index.html
looks like all indictments were men after all.
Not Annette like I suggested.....

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by dellbelle
Hey and thanks to everyone who replied to me and welcomed me to the boardlast night!
The following link http://www.imagineclay.com/index.html
looks like all indictments were men after all.
Not Annette like I suggested..... [/*]

I also thought it could be Annette, but I'm leaning more towards it possibly being the doctor.

About the link - it took me to a page called Imagine Clay Studio.

Imagine is a working clay studio offering workshops and classes in clay for adults.

[walton]

Originally posted by Mimi428


I have to wonder if Schleicher County will try to find a bigger county facility to hold him. I'm thinking maybe Tom Green County, which is where San Angelo is located. Warren is entirely too high profile for the typical manpower of a small county to keep up with.

(now it would REALLY be interesting if there was any chance he would come to my county, cuz my former son-in-law works in corrections here...) [/*]

How well do you get along with your former son-in-law? Time to rekindle that good old bond. :)

[walton]

Originally posted by Mimi428


Did I tell you about the ongoing problem we have in Texas (& elsewhere, I know) of prison gangs? Ol' Warren, if he has not already, will have to get used to people of color being around him, at the very least.

There exists in every jail some young punk who knows he is going to go to the bigger prison & he wants, needs & craves the protection of one of the prison gangs. - That sort of punk is very easily manipulated to commit violence. The older members, the ones who have already established their reputations never lift a finger - they don't have to. This is one reason why I believe Warren is way too high profile to be managed by a smaller county facility with less manpower.

If he ever ends up in TDCJ, I'm sure the Aryan Brotherhood will be more than happy to offer him 'protection' - in exchange for a whole lotta cash. [/*]

What is TDCJ ?

If Warren is held in isolation would he need protection?

As much as I don't like the man and if he is still with us, I really don't want nothing to happen to him. Too many questions that are unanswered. jmo

[juliekan]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by walton


What is TDCJ ?

<respectfully snipped>

Texas Dept. of Corrections

[walton]

:o Sometimes it is just those simple things that has me totally confused. Thanks juliekan


http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700245378,00.html

Malonis chuckled when the Deseret News read her the motion and said she had no clue what she was doing in 2000 that was so wrong. Other media have suggested her divorce and child custody matters were at issue. But Malonis said she was divorced in 1998.
"Alan Futrell is not anyone to do anything with any kind of standing in the civil case. There's no need to respond at all (to his motion). However, since it's being published by the media ... what appears publicly is not necessarily an accurate portrayer of the facts. Alan can discuss whatever he wants in whatever way he wants, but that certainly doesn't make it accurate. This young lady is being controlled and manipulated and exploited and improperly influenced. My greatest desire is to get her out from under that," she said.

I still think that Malonis is doing a great job.

I think some of those trying to dig up stuff are using desperate measures to tackle her. She is stronger than Willie or Rod Parker could ever wish to be. jmo

I wonder what Rod Parkers firm thinks of Rods tactics and his continued voice for the FLDS/Warren Jeffs and the Arizona eight?

Rod Parker has been in contact with Bill M. wonder if any of the comments on Bill M's sight are in reflection to Rod and Bills conversations?
It appears that BillM was allowed a personal visit to the Ranch as well. Hmmmmm

[juliekan]

They are dealing with a woman who has her own life and her own mind...Malonis is an oddity in their lives. No way they know how to deal with her.

edit: sheesh, i cannot spell worth a hoot tonight

[dellbelle]

Originally posted by Mimi428


I also thought it could be Annette, but I'm leaning more towards it possibly being the doctor.

About the link - it took me to a page called Imagine Clay Studio.

Imagine is a working clay studio offering workshops and classes in clay for adults. [/*]

I am so so so sorry - my child is taking a class there and I've obviously spent way too much time on the internet copying and pasting and not paying attention.

The link just referred to all those being indicted as men... You may be right about the doctor...

Darn - sorry to waste your time with the pottery site.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by dellbelle


Darn - sorry to waste your time with the pottery site. [/*]

Not to worry, not to worry. I've done the same myself & more than once!

I know what you mean by some of the websites going as far as declaring that all of the un-named indictees are male, which is one of the reasons I have thought it could be the doctor more than it could be Annette. The doctor is a 'mandatory reporter'.

We know the GJ will meet again on Aug. 21st, AG Abbott indicates the investigation is ongoing. We also know that the records they took away were voluminous & I have no doubt it is taking a Herculean effort to sort & try to make sense of them. I think it is possible that the AG's office is very carefully deciding on the order & the identities of people they are presenting evidence about.

Kind of like the notion that if you cut off the head, the body will fail - I think they may be focusing on the hierarchy first - & will get to the lesser ranking members later on.

Could be wishful thinking, though.

JMO

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by walton


What is TDCJ ?

If Warren is held in isolation would he need protection?

As much as I don't like the man and if he is still with us, I really don't want nothing to happen to him. Too many questions that are unanswered. jmo [/*]

I don't want a hair on his wretched head harmed, either - for several reasons. On a personal level, I don't believe in it - on a bigger level I don't want him to appear to be any more of a martyr to the followers than he already is. I am sure none of the true believers are thinking he is in jail because he is a horrible criminal - but think he is in jail because he is persecuted for his religious beliefs, like Christ & like Joseph Smith, their original prophet.

In the world of prison gangs, anyone with any money whatsoever needs 'protection'. They will create the danger if none exists beforehand just so they can extort money out of the protectee. Depending on the facilities, they can keep Warren snug as a bug in a rug & I imagine they will - if not for his own protection then certainly to limit any chance that someone who is a follower will be able to get closer to him than they want.

JMO

[juliekan]

This is from www.dallasnews.com/ under Texas/Southwest section--can never get my links to this site to work.

"If they tell us who they are looking for, they will step up to the allegations," Willie Jessop said. "What we're afraid is that they won't tell us the names, and then they'll try to justify their actions by staging some hocus-pocus raid."

So that's what they are afraid of, in the search for men who are HIDING, more documents will be seized. I can hear the shredders just humming out there.

And I'd like to hocus pocus your a**, Willie
:flamemad:

POOOOF , now you're a frog:biggrin:

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by juliekan


"If they tell us who they are looking for, they will step up to the allegations," Willie Jessop said. "What we're afraid is that they won't tell us the names, and then they'll try to justify their actions by staging some hocus-pocus raid."

So that's what they are afraid of, in the search for men who are HIDING, more documents will be seized. I can hear the shredders just humming out there.
[/*]

<bandwidth snip>

Yep, ol' Willie & Warren & The Boys are smart enough to know that if they can only get LE to divulge who the warrants are on several things can be accomplished. They can either hide out better or turn themselves in (doubt they would do that). They will know whose records to shred, shred, shred. And Willie J. is right - it won't be hocus-pocus, but if there is credible information to indicate one of the indictees is in a specific location & LE goes to find that person, things present in that location can be subjected to seizure.

He's an evil man but I don't think he is nearly as dumb or naive as he would like the world to believe. Like the rest of the hierarchy, I'm sure he has spent pretty much every waking hour of his life learning to perfect deceit as best as he can.

There is one other factor though that I wonder about. Some of the hierarchy have to know that Warren isn't going to see the outside of a jail cell anytime in the near future (if at all). I would be very surprised if there were no machinations going on behind the scenes by specific individuals jockeying for more powerful positions.

Let's just say that Raymond Jessop & Merrill Jessop are on the list of men indicted - if you were just a little bit lower-ranking than they are - & you knew their names were on the list - it would definitely be a benefit to you for them to be in the jailhouse, wouldn't it?

[juliekan]

Just ask Utah AG Mark Shurtleff....in 2006 when he took on the Kingston family, he tried to work with the families' attorneys instead of keeping the warrants secret. And of course the people disappeared and he couldn't serve the warrants.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by juliekan
Just ask Utah AG Mark Shurtleff....in 2006 when he took on the Kingston family, he tried to work with the families' attorneys instead of keeping the warrants secret. And of course the people disappeared and he couldn't serve the warrants. [/*]

A timely reminder - perhaps one of the reporters who next interviews Willie J. will ask him what he is willing to do to avoid such an episode with this group.

:beer:

[juliekan]

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/jul/24/live-from-the-senate-flds-coverage/

"A reporter asked one of the FLDS men how many wives he has. Willie Jessop said the reporter would get the answer to that if the reporter would say how many people he's slept with. The reporter said nothing."

:o I wish the reporter had said one, yo' mama, now answer ME. But since FLDS eschew people of color, they probably don't understand yo' mama jokes.

[juliekan]

Originally posted by Mimi428


A timely reminder - perhaps one of the reporters who next interviews Willie J. will ask him what he is willing to do to avoid such an episode with this group.

:beer: [/*]

Great idea but I think the reporters are not nearly as well versed in this case as you are :read:

[walton]

Originally posted by juliekan
This is from www.dallasnews.com/ under Texas/Southwest section--can never get my links to this site to work.

"If they tell us who they are looking for, they will step up to the allegations," Willie Jessop said. "What we're afraid is that they won't tell us the names, and then they'll try to justify their actions by staging some hocus-pocus raid."

So that's what they are afraid of, in the search for men who are HIDING, more documents will be seized. I can hear the shredders just humming out there.

And I'd like to hocus pocus your a**, Willie
:flamemad:

POOOOF , now you're a frog:biggrin: [/*]

Your hocus pocus made me laugh. :)

[Details]

Originally posted by juliekan
http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/jul/24/live-from-the-senate-flds-coverage/

"A reporter asked one of the FLDS men how many wives he has. Willie Jessop said the reporter would get the answer to that if the reporter would say how many people he's slept with. The reporter said nothing."

:o I wish the reporter had said one, yo' mama, now answer ME. But since FLDS eschew people of color, they probably don't understand yo' mama jokes. [/*]Stupid reporter. There are three easy ways to answer that question:

Reporter: "So - you're saying that in the FLDS, getting married is the same as having sex? That's why wives can be reassigned, because it's just the same as having casual sex?"

Reporter: "25. Your answer?"

Reporter: "To answer the same question for myself would be how many times I've been married. It's once. Your answer?"

[lotty]

Originally posted by Details
Stupid reporter. There are three easy ways to answer that question:

Reporter: "So - you're saying that in the FLDS, getting married is the same as having sex? That's why wives can be reassigned, because it's just the same as having casual sex?"

Reporter: "25. Your answer?"

Reporter: "To answer the same question for myself would be how many times I've been married. It's once. Your answer?" [/*]
I immediately thought of Wilt Chamberlain...and his book. Could you imagine the look on Willie's face..."over 2,000 I don't want a planet, I'm shootin' for the universe!"

Not a big sports fan, I think it was Wilt Chamberlain's book that said he intimately knew over 2,000 women. So I'll add IIRC, JMO and I could be wrong.

[lotty]

Originally posted by Imperfect
I really wish the media would stop asking that stupid question about 'how many wives.' It's utterly irrelevant and it gives flipping Willie another excuse to haul his lying buttocks back up on his religious persecution soapbox.

If the press is going to throw out questions that they know dang well won't be answered, or answered truthfully, I wish they'd stick to important questions ... about underage girls, bilking the government, lying about identities, hiding the prophet from authorities, abandoning teenage boys, disallowing laughter, swimming, and birthdays, incest-related birth defects, and the whereabouts of Merril Jessop, Raymond Jessop, Wendell Nielsen, and other male hierarchy who haven't been seen since the raid.

I don't give a flip how many wives Willie has at the moment, unless any of them are under age. The media needs to stop giving the FLDS a platform from which to try to compare their 'religious' practices with the sexual promiscuity of our society at large. That ain't the dang point!

:cuss: [/*]
Amen!

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by Imperfect


I don't give a flip how many wives Willie has at the moment, unless any of them are under age. The media needs to stop giving the FLDS a platform from which to try to compare their 'religious' practices with the sexual promiscuity of our society at large. That ain't the dang point!

[/*]

<snipped for bandwidth, not content>

ITA that there are too many media sources who seem to be deliberating missing the larger points. If our society as a whole does not care that there are so many adults leading lives of essential slavery to Warren, I would hope the slavery of children would raise at least a little concern.

Before they reach the age of majority, there are far too many male children being disposed of as if they are nothing more than litter thrown out on the highway & far too many female children put in a position to be nothing more than breeding vessels. That is wrong, wrong, wrong.

[walton]

What will happen next? Do they sit on this for 7 days and then come back and tell us what their ideas are on how to fix this?

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by Imperfect
Mimi,

I actually do care that the FLDS followers seem to be brainwashed and enslaved.

But ... first things first, I think. Carefully sequence which battles to fight in what order, starting with the prosecutable stuff. By doing that, and hopefully dismantling a lot of the FLDS business as usual in the process, it's conceivable some of those folks will come to see the light on their own.

We can hope. [/*]

My main concern is with what AG Abbott referred to in his testimony - that without a task force of some kind & without the general assistance of the feds, the FLDS can very easily pick up & move. They can move people, certainly. The trust fund manager found out they will also dismantle all sorts of things, move them part & parcel right outta town & claim they have no idea what happened! Any of those sorts of things will never be adequately stopped without federal help - there is a limit on what individual states can do for & with one another.

Certainly the feds can bring every pressure to bear on all the businesses that are fronts for the FLDS & are getting huge contracts, but if they are being looked at with any scrutiny, I haven't read about it.

I don't have a clue on what the committee members will actually do, but I sure agree that we can hope that whatever it is, it will lead to more efforts to systematically dissemble the structures that keep these evil men so well financed & in positions of power.

[Details]

The money enables part of their lifestyle - it's not what I'd consider the worst of the FLDS - but looking at the RICO aspects, welfare fraud, etc. may well solve the problem. No money for compounds, paying off police, no child labor - they'll have to live a bit more normally, and the kids will have a better chance to call for help when it's needed, maybe even to know help is there.

[juliekan]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Imperfect
I can't remember which of the testimonies it was in, but IIRC and if I understood it correctly, officials have yet to go through everything that was confiscated from Warren's big red Caddy Escalade when he was apprehended in NV.

<snipped>

Per the audio tape posted by Walton on the Senate hearings thread, Shurtleff states that the FBI hasn't allowed others access to whatever they got from Warren's Caddy. He stated it would be helpful if they could get their hands on it.

[juliekan]

http://www.marieclaire.com/world/articles/polygamist-cult-kids-wife?click=main_sr

Just saw this at the nail salon. Teressa Wall in Marie Claire. Don't know if it has anything new for anyone. I did learn what the law of Sarah was. Somehow never heard that before.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by juliekan
http://www.marieclaire.com/world/articles/polygamist-cult-kids-wife?click=main_sr

Just saw this at the nail salon. Teressa Wall in Marie Claire. Don't know if it has anything new for anyone. I did learn what the law of Sarah was. Somehow never heard that before. [/*]

Do you know what month that article appeared? I couldn't tell from reading it at the website.

I hope Teressa garnered enough attention from relating that story that she has more legal assistance now to help keep her children out of the hands of the FLDS in Canada.

[juliekan]

The article was from May

[juliekan]

BREAKING NEWS: Judge divides FLDS cases

Haven't read it yet, was just surprised to see that something was happening

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/jul/25/breaking-news-judge-divides-flds-child-cases/

[juliekan]

From the above site:

"The new alignment of the cases, in sibling groups according to the mother, has been one of our consistent goals, and it is the standard practice in CPS cases," he said. "This was not possible at the outset of this case due to lack of reliable information at the time the children were removed."


DNA and "other documents" have confirmed the mother-child link


:patriot: TEXAS

[juliekan]

http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_9997223

Discovery Control Plan order?

[juliekan]

http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_10000665

Call the G men: It's time for a federal polygamy task force

"It's time for the Justice Dept. to launch a systematic response."

Interesting that this is by the "tribune editorial" and not *.A. You know who I mean.

[juliekan]

And you gotta read this, that I got from you know who's blog (refuse to acknowledge for my own personal reasons)

http://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith%27s_marriages_to_young_women

[juliekan]

Originally posted by juliekan
From the above site:

"The new alignment of the cases, in sibling groups according to the mother, has been one of our consistent goals, and it is the standard practice in CPS cases," he said. "This was not possible at the outset of this case due to lack of reliable information at the time the children were removed."


DNA and "other documents" have confirmed the mother-child link


:patriot: TEXAS [/*]

Sorry :shrug: to quote myself...but I'm the only one up....

NOW WILL THE FATHERS PLEASE STEP FORWARD?

[walton]

grammy this is off topic (kinda) did you go to any of the Pioneer days events?

As you know I've talked about Utahs rich history a lot here on the board it as it truly fascinates me. Do you know if any of the local papers put out a special with photos?

[walton]

Originally posted by Imperfect


Ahh ... that's right. Thanks for clarifying, JK.

Well, then I'd suggest the FBI get the led out. Time's a'wastin. And inquiring minds want to know what all was in that SUV.

:punch: [/*]

Just a few questions. lol ok I surely have a lot of questions.

1. Who's names were on the titles of all those vehicles Warren had the keys ?

2. Who was listed on the safe house list?

3. Was one of those red wigs Warren had the same color red hair of one Patricia Keate?

4. On the list of names of people to contact where any of them politicans, local Judges or law enforcement?

5. Were there any passports?

6. Has there been any charges brought about against Naomi and the other person.

Just a few questions. lol

[walton]

Originally posted by grammybear
Hi Walton,
Yes we did go to the parades when our children were growing up. I do not know about now but the papers did carry pictures and stories about the parade. I would think that they would still this because this is a holiday for our state and all of the floats revolve around our ancestors. [/*]

Thanks Grammy. I've been looking on line and didn't see anything. I'll call the local papers there and see what they have.

I remember being in Brigham City during this time and it was amazing the amount of people that came out.

[walton]

Originally posted by juliekan
http://www.marieclaire.com/world/articles/polygamist-cult-kids-wife?click=main_sr

Just saw this at the nail salon. Teressa Wall in Marie Claire. Don't know if it has anything new for anyone. I did learn what the law of Sarah was. Somehow never heard that before. [/*]

juliekan did you see who wrote that article? Great article!! I knew that Teressa was having a tough time of this but didn't know the extent. Makes me sick when I hear and see Rod Parker talking about Justice for those that he defends. jmo

http://www.dorothyallredsolomon.com/about.php

:rose: << For Dorothy

[walton]

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/jul/25/flds-practices-at-issue/

In testimony Thursday before the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee, Abbott painted a picture of a mobile Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints whose members and resources slip easily across state and international borders to escape crackdowns.

The final panel included ex-FLDS member Carolyn Jessop, who spoke of an insular and limited life in a sect allowing women few rights.

I wonder if the missing are helping Winston with his chores?




And further..........

They weren't even allowed to drive a legally registered car or have a driver's license, she said.


I wonder what their reasoning behind all that is about?

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by juliekan


Sorry :shrug: to quote myself...but I'm the only one up....

NOW WILL THE FATHERS PLEASE STEP FORWARD? [/*]

I doubt it, except for the few that have one wife only.

I have to wonder what the CPS workers can reasonably (& legally) ask the mothers about the identities of their children's father(s). There is a legitimate interest in knowing the living conditions of each child & the parenting styles of each mother - whether they are abusive, etc.

I just don't know if they can be questioned re: "who is the father, where is the father, what daily contact/influence does the father have on this child" & stuff like that.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by walton


And further..........

They weren't even allowed to drive a legally registered car or have a driver's license, she said.


I wonder what their reasoning behind all that is about? [/*]

I can see a couple of possibilities for not registering the cars. For one thing, MONEY has to be spent & I don't believe this group is at all inclined to give money to the government. TAKE money, yes - give, no.

Applying for a driver's license for the first time requires that identity be established - & I do not believe the FLDS as a rule want any of that to be known to others. I just don't think they want picture IDs established for their members. Plus, it's another instance of having to pay MONEY to the state to get a license.

I also wonder about the names of the registered owners of the vehicles. Somebody's name has to be on the titles, after all.

And then there is a matter of liability insurance. In Texas (& I'm sure other states) every one MUST carry liability insurance on their vehicle. We know Willie J. was stopped by LE the other morning on the way to the courthouse so they could serve him with a subpoena. I'm curious to know what vehicle he drives, in whose name it is registered, what insurance company insures it, where it was issued a state inspection sticker, etc.

So many questions. . .

[KatyDid]

Hey walton :seeya:

In Carolyn's book 'Escape', she said the vehicles driven by the women were kept unregistered on purpose so if they tried to escape in them they would be quickly stopped by LE.

I am :read: trying to catch up. I've been checking in reading, but not posting like I wish I could. :)

[lotty]

http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/20...727-ZION_2.html
Inside Their World
The New York Times Magazine

More photos, this time at YFZ.

[lotty]

Originally posted by grammybear


Lotty I could not get the link to work. Is there another link that will take me to this article.
tyia [/*]
Sorry. Try this one.
http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2008/07/27/magazine/0727-ZION_index.html

ETA This one works.

[Cat2007]

Originally posted by lotty

Sorry. Try this one.
http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2008/07/27/magazine/0727-ZION_index.html

ETA This one works. [/*]

Thanks for posting that, Lotty. Very interesting. I wonder what that guy was doing on the roof while the girls were on the trampoline--watchdog? Also, they should be informed that only one person should be on the trampoline at one time. People break they necks falling off those when more than one are on.

What a study in opposites is the photo of the girl with her attorney on the couch. One barefoot in comfortable clothes, one in a long dress and tights.

[Roux]

IMO those photos at the ranch are entirely posed and for propaganda to show how "wholesome" they are. It's all a facade to try and deflect the truth of the recent hearings.

No way can you work in a Texas garden in July and not get sweaty and dirty. The women and girls look pristine. I was outside yesterday working with my plants, and within 10 minutes my hair was damp and sweat was pouring into my eyes. And as we mentioned a few days ago, those uncomfortable clothes on the toddlers and the 8 mo. old baby wrapped up as though it's winter.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by Roux
IMO those photos at the ranch are entirely posed and for propaganda to show how "wholesome" they are. It's all a facade to try and deflect the truth of the recent hearings.

No way can you work in a Texas garden in July and not get sweaty and dirty. The women and girls look pristine. I was outside yesterday working with my plants, and within 10 minutes my hair was damp and sweat was pouring into my eyes. And as we mentioned a few days ago, those uncomfortable clothes on the toddlers and the 8 mo. old baby wrapped up as though it's winter. [/*]

You have the exact same thoughts about it as I have. There is NO way people actually working in the sun are going to look as clean, unwrinkled, hair all in place, unsweaty as what the pictures show. It isn't possible in this climate even if you aren't wearing a set of long underwear plus long sleeved dresses, etc.

I only saw one woman with a hat on in the pictures - & if we are supposed to believe they all work outside w/o hats on - especially the children - that is an issue that should be covered with the CPS workers - it is unhealthy to the point of dangerous to be in full sun w/o a hat on during the summertime.

At the very least, ol' Warren needs to receive a message from God telling him to get straw hats for the field workers.

Those pictures make the comments made by Willie J. last week look all the more ridiculous - the ones where he complained that the state was 'forcing' the women to be outside all day.

[walton]

Originally posted by lotty

Sorry. Try this one.
http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2008/07/27/magazine/0727-ZION_index.html

ETA This one works. [/*]

Thanks for the link.

I've looked at those pictures a few times and each time I've noticed different things.

Mothers with the last names different than their children. Sisters holding siblings with different last names.

The living room. So out of place was the toy in the living room lined with straight back chairs.

I noticed the wall lined with photos of their prophets from years past to the present Warren Jeffs. (Missing is any pictures of Willie.)

I noticed the older ladies didn't look at the cameras. I wonder if the Mrs. Jeffs shown is one of Rulons wives that Warren later took as his own wife.

Looking at all those photos and the ones that the Pilot has taken still doesn't show me how those people made their monies.

Beautiful photos. Thank you for sharing.

[walton]

Originally posted by Texas-SE


Ole King Willie the thug is just blustering because he has ran into something he can't scare into submission, unfortunately he wasn't one of the indicted, so he's not a guest at the greybar hotel, but IMO it's only a matter of time before he join's his hero Warren Jeffs in the big house.

Genocide, now that's far fetched, if he expects us to buy that, he will be trying to sell us the Galveston causway next!hammer

Hope ole Merril Jessop is one of the indicted, but he wouldn't have the guts to turn himself in! :no: [/*]

How can anyone turn themselves in unless the names are released?

[walton]

Originally posted by Imperfect


Good point. I have no idea. I guess LE will have to go after them, using whatever information they have on the various FLDS compound and community locations, safe houses, known associates, etc.

Wonder if they'll put all of them on the most wanted list like they did Warren? [/*]

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/jul/28/authorities-seek-to-apprehend-indicted-sect/

Raymond Merril Jessop, 36, the alleged husband of a 16-year-old daughter of Warren Jeffs, is charged with one count of sexual assault of a child.
Allan Eugene Keate, 56, is charged with one count of sexual assault of a child.
Michael Gorge Emack, 57, is charged with one count of sexual assault of a child.
Merril Leroy Jessop, 33, is charged with one count of sexual assault of a child and bigamy.
Lloyd Hammond Barlow, 38, is charged with three counts of failure to report child abuse.


Wow. Just the begining imo.

[walton]

http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_10027362

Willie Jessop, who has been speaking for the sect in Jeffs' absence, has said since last week that the men would turn themselves in when they were identified. But law enforcement officials had been hesitant to identify the suspects, fearing they would flee.
Abbott, acknowledging the deep financial pockets of the Mormon breakaway sect, said he still thought the $100,000 bail was sufficient, and said authorities would keep close watch over any of the individuals who are released on bond.


They turned themselves in and all 5 were arrested at the Ranch?

If no names were mentioned how did they know that they were wanted?

At what point were they identified?

This doesn't make sense to me. Do all the men from the Ranch have paid lawyers except [/*] the women and children?

Who is Patricia Keate?

[walton]

http://coramnonjudice.blogspot.com/

Check out his latest entries.



I like this guy.

[LLaFren]

Originally posted by walton
http://coramnonjudice.blogspot.com/

Check out his latest entries.



I like this guy. [/*]

Me to! He definitely states his opinion clearly:D

[Mimi428]

The Austin American Statesman is a (free) subscription website, but this little article does give us a bit of a hint on how the 5 came to be in custody.

http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/07/29/0729flds.html

Excerpt. . .

Five members of a West Texas polygamist sect, indicted last week on charges that included sexually assaulting teenage church members, turned themselves in to Schleicher County authorities Monday.

The arrests, which were negotiated during the past several days with a lawyer representing the sect, included members of the Jessop and Barlow families, who are prominent within the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, a Mormon splinter group.

Goes on to say that AG Abbott is concerned (rightly so!) that the victims will not be protected from these men should they post bond, other than that, he isn't saying much of anything about the specific charges.

A phone call to Willie J. by the AAS was not returned.

[Mimi428]

Interesting coincidence in timing, the state & federal investigators for the fire at the Governor's Mansion have today released a video of the arsonist(s), hoping that someone out there may be able to identify the culprit(s).

Now I'm not saying that the fire & the FLDS are related, but it does make ya wonder.

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/blotter/entries/2008/07/29/investigators_release_video_of.html

Link to video

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/video/news/video.htm

[lotty]

I've been away for a few days. I don't know if anyone posted this, but the journalist, Willie Jessop had an interesting discussion with after the Senate Judiciary Committee Hearing, was Mike Watkiss.

I think Mike Watkiss is a good journalist, he has written some in depth articles on the FLDS in Arizona. Here is the video clip of the exchange between Mike Watkiss and Willie Jessop.

http://www.azfamily.com/video/localnews-index.html?nvid=266688

[lotty]

The pending motions and omnibus hearing for Warren Jeffs have been moved to Aug. 22, 2008 @ 9:00 am.

[lotty]

http://www.myeldorado.net/
!!! BREAKING NEWS !!!
ELDORADO TX -- 4:00 p.m CST -- July 29, 2008
Doctor Lloyd Barlow was released from the Schleicher County Jail this afternoon after posting bail on three Class * misdemeanor charges of Failure to Report Child Abuse. The remaining four suspects are reportedly having trouble making bail after the Texas Attorney General's Office opposed a bail reduction.

Raymond Jessop, Allan Keate and Michael Emack, all charged with Sexual Assault of a Child (1st Degree Felony) remain behind bars awaiting $100,000 cash bond for each. Meanwhile Leroy Jessop is held in lieu of $200,000 bail on a charge of Sexual Assualt of a Child and Bigamy, both 1st Degree Felonies.

[LLaFren]

Originally posted by lotty
I've been away for a few days. I don't know if anyone posted this, but the journalist, Willie Jessop had an interesting discussion with after the Senate Judiciary Committee Hearing, was Mike Watkiss.

I think Mike Watkiss is a good journalist, he has written some in depth articles on the FLDS in Arizona. Here is the video clip of the exchange between Mike Watkiss and Willie Jessop.

http://www.azfamily.com/video/localnews-index.html?nvid=266688 [/*]

I thought it was telling that their lawyer refused to answer any questions by Mike Watkiss, and Jessop still managed not to answer any questions anything he was asked he turned around and asked back (or tried to turn around)

[lotty]

Grammy,
I'm glad you were able to watch the video. Until I found it, I kept wondering which journalist would know enough that Willie J. would have a problem with them...I should have known it was Mike Watkiss. :beer:

[lotty]

So, I'm wondering how this works on the bail? Does each member have to come up with their own bail or will the FLDS pay it for them? A half of a million dollars (total) is an awful lot of money. JMO/IMO.

[juliekan]

Just got back in town and have been trying to read, but due to a little pink pill I took while traveling, I'm working with about 1/8th of my brain...Only thing I noticed is that it looks like these guys could get off with the dates/ages/ etc. listed since TX didn't change their marriage laws until sometime late 2005 (or was it 2006?)IIRC? Will research it later if my brain resurfaces.
:seeya:

[walton]

I can't get the video to work.:(

I really like Mike Watkiss. I would love to see him go toe to toe (question to answers ) with Willie.

Is there a another way to view that video? All I get is something spinning in circles.

[walton]

Turned off the pop up blocker.

Signed into the site.

Still spinning wheels.

I've seen Mike in action before. And with the descriptions that you folks are giving it is almost as good.

:D

[walton]

Originally posted by Mimi428
Interesting coincidence in timing, the state & federal investigators for the fire at the Governor's Mansion have today released a video of the arsonist(s), hoping that someone out there may be able to identify the culprit(s).

Now I'm not saying that the fire & the FLDS are related, but it does make ya wonder.

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/blotter/entries/2008/07/29/investigators_release_video_of.html

Link to video

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/video/news/video.htm [/*]

I hope that someone can tell who they are in those videos and I hope that they turn the tip into LE.

[Roux]

I was out of town for a couple of days and am getting caught up with reading everyone's posts, and watching the video. Willie's responses to Mike's questions were laughable. I wish that more in the media would press the hard questions. And OMG that clip of attorney Bradshaw after the hearing last week. How can some of these lawyers, Parker and Bradshaw particularly, live with themselves. You know darn good and well that they know the truth.

Where is the income coming from to support the rental houses in San Antonio and New Braunfels (the slides we saw at NY Times magazine spread). I sure would like to see a chart of the money being streamed to the various households. They've probably signed up for food stamps and WIC!

[lotty]

Originally posted by walton
Turned off the pop up blocker.

Signed into the site.

Still spinning wheels.

I've seen Mike in action before. And with the descriptions that you folks are giving it is almost as good.

:D [/*]

I really hope you can watch this video Walton, you would completely enjoy it. I don't know what else to do :confused: the link is good. I hope you can see it!

Hi ev1! :seeya: In and out of the house a lot!! Catch up later.

[lotty]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/073008dnmetpolygamist.1a2ff1aa.html
Polygamist group tries to raise bail for 4 charged with sexual assault

06:40 AM CDT on Thursday, July 31, 2008
By EMILY RAMSHAW / The Dallas Morning News
eramshaw@dallasnews.com

AUSTIN – The spokesman for a West Texas polygamist sect said the group is trying to pull together half a million dollars in bail money for four men charged with sexual assaulting young girls. For now, Willie Jessop said, the members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints remain in jail.

[walton]

Originally posted by Imperfect
I was trying to find a transcript of the interview ... registered at the AZ 3 site and blahblahblah. Couldn't find a transcript, but I think I have another link. It may or may not work, but worth a shot.

http://www.azfamily.com/sharedcontent/southwest/azfamily/features/polygamy/Washington_national_news_072408_poly-task-force-he.8aeae505.html [/*]

It isn't the link. It is me. I even tried going thru Anderson Coopers site. Nothing.

Tried something else and I got it. I got it. I got it.

It worked. :D You guys were right. Descriptive words were good but the visual is AWESOME.

Squirm squirm squirm Willieboy. :D

Could you imagine Mike Watkiss and Nancy Grace going after Willie. I would pay money.

Thanks everyone for your help.

[walton]

Originally posted by lotty
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/073008dnmetpolygamist.1a2ff1aa.html
Polygamist group tries to raise bail for 4 charged with sexual assault

06:40 AM CDT on Thursday, July 31, 2008
By EMILY RAMSHAW / The Dallas Morning News
eramshaw@dallasnews.com

AUSTIN – The spokesman for a West Texas polygamist sect said the group is trying to pull together half a million dollars in bail money for four men charged with sexual assaulting young girls. For now, Willie Jessop said, the members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints remain in jail. [/*]

I wonder if they are all kept in the same holding area?
I wonder if they have to share a cell with anyone else?
I wonder if Doran is playing the guitar and singing like Ricky Nelson. :) j/k

I still can't figure out why those people are counting on Willie for anything. Nothing from Warren? I wonder if anyone has been to see Warren.

[lotty]

Originally posted by walton


I wonder if they are all kept in the same holding area?
I wonder if they have to share a cell with anyone else?
I wonder if Doran is playing the guitar and singing like Ricky Nelson. :) j/k

I still can't figure out why those people are counting on Willie for anything. Nothing from Warren? I wonder if anyone has been to see Warren. [/*]

Doran / Ricky Nelson ROTFL!

I have no idea what the answers to your questions are....but it sure would be interesting to know the answers. I can't figure out the deal with Willie either...
Warren, I have no idea there either...I would like to know if he has had any visitors and who.

[juliekan]

Originally posted by Imperfect
I was trying to find a transcript of the interview ... registered at the AZ 3 site and blahblahblah. Couldn't find a transcript, but I think I have another link. It may or may not work, but worth a shot.

http://www.azfamily.com/sharedcontent/southwest/azfamily/features/polygamy/Washington_national_news_072408_poly-task-force-he.8aeae505.html [/*]

WOW. That was great. I like how Willie J said that the allegations can never be proven. I guess with the men charged and in jail, they can now kindly provide the state with their DNA. I don't think that's going to help their case any.

Why was the one man charged with bigamy? They all could be charged if they have more than one wife. The other wives would be covered under the "purported to marry" section of the marriage laws. But I thought LE was not going to go after this issue.

[juliekan]

Originally posted by Roux
I was out of town for a couple of days and am getting caught up with reading everyone's posts, and watching the video. Willie's responses to Mike's questions were laughable. I wish that more in the media would press the hard questions. And OMG that clip of attorney Bradshaw after the hearing last week. How can some of these lawyers, Parker and Bradshaw particularly, live with themselves. You know darn good and well that they know the truth.

Where is the income coming from to support the rental houses in San Antonio and New Braunfels (the slides we saw at NY Times magazine spread). I sure would like to see a chart of the money being streamed to the various households. They've probably signed up for food stamps and WIC! [/*]

I read somewhere that the FLDS woman that is a nurse is working at a hospital in Abilene (some of the kids were sent there after the raid). Maybe she's doing double shifts to come up with the money. ;)

[walton]

http://gosanangelo.com/news/2008/jul/30/medical-board-may-eye-doctor/

Jill Wiggins, public information officer for the Texas Medical Board, said her agency has the authority to open an investigation into the violation of a medical practice as related to the charges Barlow faces. She could not confirm whether the medical board is pursuing an investigation, but she said the medical board could choose to take action based on the findings of a criminal investigation.



Barlows license should be suspended or yanked completely imo.

Further into the article: Physicians have a "moral obligation to help those who cannot help themselves," said Dr. Eugene Boisaubin, a professor of medicine and ethics at the University of Texas Medical School at Houston.

[walton]

Originally posted by juliekan


I read somewhere that the FLDS woman that is a nurse is working at a hospital in Abilene (some of the kids were sent there after the raid). Maybe she's doing double shifts to come up with the money. ;) [/*]

I wonder if Rod Parker and his team will jump in to help out? Wasn't it him that said it wasn't all about money?

For him it was about true Justice. ( Although he was interested only in "true justice" for the men.) jmo

[walton]

Originally posted by Imperfect
grammy,

I agree with you on the 4 felons still in jail.

I think they turned themselves in so that LE wouldn't have to go looking for them, and in the process find more pregnant teens and teen mothers, and hundreds more boxes of sect documents to confiscate. If they'd stayed hidden, it would've given LE a reason to search every FLDS compound and community in the states and Canada. Imagine the Pandora's Box THAT would've opened.

And I also don't think they'll make bail, because then there'd be a money trail the authorities could follow. There are lots of folks on the state and national level who are interested in following the FLDS money -- starting with Bruce Wisan, and including Harry Reid's committee.

I think you're right -- I think the 4 who are sitting in jail will be hung out to dry. [/*]

But they are not done yet. Missing in this little line-up is good ol' Merril Jessop. Jeffs brothers. Allred boys.

Doran better place an ad and get some help. Wouldn't it be a kick if the jailer was a woman? lol

If these guys got caught in the Arizona area where that one Warden has Tent City they all could be wearing pink undies.


oh I am bad today. :biggrin:


Right after the raid there was a lawyer on Nancy Grace. He was from Texas and appeared with other Texas lawyers. Big guy. Friendly. He appeared to be down to earth and no BS. Does anyone remember him?

[juliekan]

Originally posted by Imperfect


I'm severely confused on the bigamy vs. polygamy issue, but at a link I read this morning ... probably the most recent one lotty supplied ... it said that Raymond Jessop got the bigamy charge because Teresa Jeffs was under 16 when daddy-prophet Warren handed her over. Now, how RJessop can receive a bigamy charge for a 'spiritual' marriage I have no clue, but IIRC, that's what I read.

:shrug: [/*]

I hope you're right...I keep trying to apply marriage laws that don't apply. I guess if the 2nd wife was of age, she could choose to "live with" a man that already had a wife? It has to be related to being underage? Been thinking about this all morning and am still badly confused :punch:

[juliekan]

Originally posted by walton


But they are not done yet. Missing in this little line-up is good ol' Merril Jessop. Jeffs brothers. Allred boys.

Doran better place an ad and get some help. Wouldn't it be a kick if the jailer was a woman? lol

If these guys got caught in the Arizona area where that one Warden has Tent City they all could be wearing pink undies.


oh I am bad today. :biggrin:


Right after the raid there was a lawyer on Nancy Grace. He was from Texas and appeared with other Texas lawyers. Big guy. Friendly. He appeared to be down to earth and no BS. Does anyone remember him? [/*]

I like bad :D

Was the lawyer the one that was picked to set up the whole thing in San Angelo? The one that got all the lawyers lined up for the hearings? I remember liking him.

[juliekan]

Originally posted by juliekan


I like bad :D

Was the lawyer the one that was picked to set up the whole thing in San Angelo? The one that got all the lawyers lined up for the hearings? I remember liking him. [/*]

http://www.law.com/jsp/tx/PubArticleTX.jsp?id=1207824256884

Tom Vick?

[juliekan]

FLDS classes to focus on "core strengths"

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700247186,00.html

This 7 part program includes such tidbits as how to "control primary urges" and "...children are taught that the family is the child's most important group."

Who wrote this, Warren Jessop?

Would like to see the entire program, because this just looks stupid JMO:rolleyes:

[juliekan]

Originally posted by juliekan
FLDS classes to focus on "core strengths"

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700247186,00.html

<snipped>
Would like to see the entire program, because this just looks stupid JMO:rolleyes: [/*]

"The Six Core Strengths for Healthy Childhood Development" written by Bruce D Perry,M.D. Ph.D, the specialist that LE called in from Houston when the raid happened. I'm guessing he has a little more experience in this than I do. :o
http://www.childtrauma.org/aboutCTA/bio_bruce.asp

[walton]

Originally posted by juliekan


http://www.law.com/jsp/tx/PubArticleTX.jsp?id=1207824256884

Tom Vick? [/*]

It might be him. Except I think the guy I was thinking about was clean shaven.

For the longest time I thought Willie was that guy and that someone was playing games.



Nope, I don't have trust issues. ha ha That is one reason that when I saw the video on the Senate hearing I started crying. oy

[walton]

Originally posted by Imperfect


LOL. That's 'America's Toughest Sheriff' -- Maricopa County's Sheriff Joe Arpaio - a controversial figure, to say the least.

His prisoners live in tents, wear pink undies, work on chain gangs, eat mostly bologna, and lots of other fun stuff.

This is O/T, but too good to pass up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Arpaio



Much more at link! [/*]

Yup. That is who I was thinking about. I personally don't see that what he is doing is wrong. If I was a criminal I sure wouldn't be a criminal in his neck of the woods.

[walton]

Originally posted by juliekan
FLDS classes to focus on "core strengths"

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700247186,00.html

This 7 part program includes such tidbits as how to "control primary urges" and "...children are taught that the family is the child's most important group."

Who wrote this, Warren Jessop?

Would like to see the entire program, because this just looks stupid JMO:rolleyes: [/*]

From the link: The descriptions for the various classes say the children will be taught how to "form and maintain healthy emotional bonds with another person," "control primary urges," and become aware and tolerant of different races and cultures.



Interesting info on Mr. Perry. Thanks Juliekan

[walton]

http://attorneygeneral.utah.gov/610.html

House Bill 307 would make it a second degree felony if a married adult takes an additional spouse under the age of 18. A person convicted of child bigamy would face one to 15 years in prison.
"These young girls need our help," says Rep. Lawrence. "We need to buy them enough time to reach adulthood before they are asked to make this choice, when they have few other options open to them."
Attorney General Mark Shurtleff asked Rep. Lawrence to sponsor the legislation. "Our focus has been and will continue to be on protecting children," says Shurtleff. "Regardless of where they live or what they believe, this law will make it clear that we will prosecute anyone who commits a crime against a child."


Does this law apply to Texas?

[juliekan]

Originally posted by walton
http://attorneygeneral.utah.gov/610.html

House Bill 307 would make it a second degree felony if a married adult takes an additional spouse under the age of 18. A person convicted of child bigamy would face one to 15 years in prison.
"These young girls need our help," says Rep. Lawrence. "We need to buy them enough time to reach adulthood before they are asked to make this choice, when they have few other options open to them."
Attorney General Mark Shurtleff asked Rep. Lawrence to sponsor the legislation. "Our focus has been and will continue to be on protecting children," says Shurtleff. "Regardless of where they live or what they believe, this law will make it clear that we will prosecute anyone who commits a crime against a child."


Does this law apply to Texas? [/*]

http://www.johntfloyd.com/comments/may08/24a.htm

This site gives the background with the Supreme Court ruling 130 years ago on polygamy. Interesting reading. If you scroll down the article you will see the Texas bigamy statute with the following:

(e) An offense under this section is a felony of the third degree, except that if at the time of the commission of the offense, the person whom the actor marries or purports to marry or with whom the actor lives under the appearance of being married is:
(1) 16 years of age or older, the offense is a felony of the second degree; or
(2) Younger than 16 years of age, the offense is a felony of the first degree

[Roux]

Originally posted by walton
http://gosanangelo.com/news/2008/jul/30/medical-board-may-eye-doctor/

Jill Wiggins, public information officer for the Texas Medical Board, said her agency has the authority to open an investigation into the violation of a medical practice as related to the charges Barlow faces. She could not confirm whether the medical board is pursuing an investigation, but she said the medical board could choose to take action based on the findings of a criminal investigation.



Barlows license should be suspended or yanked completely imo.

Further into the article: Physicians have a "moral obligation to help those who cannot help themselves," said Dr. Eugene Boisaubin, a professor of medicine and ethics at the University of Texas Medical School at Houston. [/*]

LOL, I read some of the reader comments and thought I was on Brooke's blog! It is so apparent that many of those posting are FLDS.

[Roux]

Originally posted by walton


From the link: The descriptions for the various classes say the children will be taught how to "form and maintain healthy emotional bonds with another person," "control primary urges," and become aware and tolerant of different races and cultures.



Interesting info on Mr. Perry. Thanks Juliekan [/*]

The thing that stood out for me was the "...healthy emotional bonds..." because I have wondered how a child must feel in a household with so many siblings (as many as 36!) and so many maternal figures. I have one sister, one daughter, one niece, two granddaughters so my experience has been only with a small family unit. Don't these children get lost in the shuffle? How can they bond with the mother? We've seen the pictures of the older girls taking care of younger siblings, most likely necessary because there are so many children. The alleged sharing of nursing babies does not seem like a good thing IMO, when that is so necessary to bonding with your baby.

I'm sure that there are large families that raise well-adjusted children, but I honestly wonder if it can be done in an FLDS setting.

[walton]

Originally posted by Roux


LOL, I read some of the reader comments and thought I was on Brooke's blog! It is so apparent that many of those posting are FLDS. [/*]

Some might be of the FLDS faith but something tells me that many are not. I think that there are an awful lot of "do-gooders" out there that haven't a clue what this cult is like.

I also think that some are posting to stir things up a bit.

I don't know how to blog. Thru out this whole thing I've bitten my tounge many times from wanting to respond..... but then it is a good thing that I haven't.

I just wonder where all these peoples voices were when Caroline and Flora where looking for help. When the kids got tossed out to fend for themselves I wonder where those people were?



:(

[walton]

Originally posted by Texas-SE


No, Utah laws are only valid in Utah, Texas has a similar law already on the books. From Texas penal code:

" e) An offense under this section is a felony of the third
degree, except that if at the time of the commission of the offense,
the person whom the actor marries or purports to marry or with whom
the actor lives under the appearance of being married is:
(1) 16 years of age or older, the offense is a felony
of the second degree; or
(2) younger than 16 years of age, the offense is a
felony of the first degree. See links below

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/
http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/fa.toc.htm

Current bigamy law in Texas: http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/pe.toc.htm

Click on link for offense against family, then click link for bigamy.

Gregg Abbot, Texas Attorney General is going after the crooks of the FLDS. Ole Warren and his buddies will be singing those Texas prison blues by the time this is all over, Huntsville bound on that white bus! Wearing those white prison clothes chopping cotton!

http://www.oag.state.tx.us/ [/*]

Tex the way I read that bigamy law they could actually go after anyone with two or more wives legal or not. Do you think that they will press charges against the women as well?

The only thing I found on that 2nd link was something about Abbot going after the wheelchair scam and Sunmart.

[walton]

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_10063178

Utah entrepreneur who has waged a public campaign to assist teens who fled or were kicked out of a polygamous sect was an abusive father and husband who abandoned some of his own children, according to affidavits submitted Thursday to the Senate Judiciary Committee.
The allegations against Dan Fischer, founder of South Jordan-based Ultradent Products Inc., are detailed in sworn statements from a former wife, three children, three siblings and others familiar with his family.



This article imo is a tell all.

[walton]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700247461,00.html

An anti-polygamy activist who has been a lightning rod of controversy when it comes to the Fundamentalist LDS Church will publish her autobiography next year.
Flora Jessop's "Church of Lies: The True Story of Escaping Slavery and Polygamy, and Rescuing Women and Children from the Notorious Fundamentalist Church of Latter Day Saints" will hit bookstore shelves in February 2009. It's being published by Jossey-Bass, a division of Wiley Publishing.

"It's a book about my life, about what I come from and why I do what I do," Jessop told the Deseret News on Thursday. "I think that it's important to know why I do what I do, and for people to know why I'm fighting for these children."

[walton]

Originally posted by Roux


The thing that stood out for me was the "...healthy emotional bonds..." because I have wondered how a child must feel in a household with so many siblings (as many as 36!) and so many maternal figures. I have one sister, one daughter, one niece, two granddaughters so my experience has been only with a small family unit. Don't these children get lost in the shuffle? How can they bond with the mother? We've seen the pictures of the older girls taking care of younger siblings, most likely necessary because there are so many children. The alleged sharing of nursing babies does not seem like a good thing IMO, when that is so necessary to bonding with your baby.

I'm sure that there are large families that raise well-adjusted children, but I honestly wonder if it can be done in an FLDS setting. [/*]

Being part of a big family has to have its super good moments. And like you said there has to be some bad times as well.

A little freedom can go a long way. I've seen people that can not go across town with out having someone with them because they are soooo use to having someone around. Many never leave town for fear of the unknown.

I know some that can't even go to any store alone because they are not use to making a decision by themselves.

What ever Mr.Perry can share I would think would be a very good thing.

[juliekan]

Originally posted by walton


<snipped>

A little freedom can go a long way. I've seen people that can not go across town with out having someone with them because they are soooo use to having someone around. Many never leave town for fear of the unknown.
[/*]

Was watching a show about a cult on Larry King last night and he asked them why they couldn't leave...They said they could leave anytime they wanted, no one would chase them down or put them in a psych ward or send them to another family. BUT, they said, the "psychological barriers" (their term) were instilled from birth. They were afraid of all the unknowns outside of the group. Sounds like what you described above.

[juliekan]

Hi grammybear. Great post. I agree. :)
Also agree with your DH...I was raised hell-fire and brimstone religion, and know how frightening it is to stray even the tiniest bit from the group's doctrine.

[juliekan]

Dan Fischer has paid for private investigators and attorneys to assist in the conviction of Warren Jeffs and to assist the young men who were thrown out of their homes by the FLDS in a lawsuit. Why were these accusations against him not brought up until now?

Is it because the FLDS has decided to denigrate the character of all their foes, or because they never thought it was "extreme" behavior because they are so far out of mainstream society?

The men have been given total power over their families and obviously will need to do whatever possible to keep them all in line. If it includes abusive behavior, it sounds as if this may be acceptable in their society, otherwise, why didn't any of the Elders in the group step forward to correct such behavior?

I am sad that Dan Fischer may have been abusive with his family. I'm glad he's spending the rest of his life and his wealth to try and atone for whatever is in his past. JMO

[juliekan]

While surfing around found 2 things I haven't noticed before:

On Wiki regarding an article about the Lost Boys there was a note saying that the site had been nominated to be checked for its neutrality.

and

http://childbrides.org/news_raid_des_Dan_Fischerexploring_custody_solutio ns.html
states that you probably cannot reach this article because the Salt Lake Tribune made us(The Hope Organization) remove their articles from our site

Is this a new occurence or old?

Also the wiki site YFZ_Ranch is anything BUT neutral. Check it out.

[juliekan]

Originally posted by Imperfect


JK -- absolutely none of the links work at childbrides.org. WTH?
<snipped>
[/*]

I did get some other links to work when I was looking. Are none of them working now?

[Cat2007]

Have most of you hear read WHEN MEN BECOME GODS, by Stephen Singular? I just finished it. He did a wonderful job writing this. I came away with enormous respect for all the people who have been helping ex-FLDS people, the investigator, Gary Engels, and all involved.

This book gave me some optimism about the FLDS situation when reading about the changes that have come about in the past few years with letting FLDS people own their own houses, how some are connecting to the outside world now since Jeffs cannot deny them reading material and how some even have satellite dishes now. I know there's a long way to go, but any progress is encouraging.

[walton]

:seeya: Hi there Cat

Mr. Singular was one of the guys that was at the Senate hearing. And he also is one that has been on tv talking about this story. He is on my list as one of the good guys.

I haven't read his book..... yet. But his is one for sure that I am going to read.

Did you know that it was his wife that told him to check all this out? And.... he gives her credit for it. The guy gets a thumbs up from me and so does his wife.

[walton]

Originally posted by juliekan


I did get some other links to work when I was looking. Are none of them working now? [/*]

juliekan this link still works for me. http://thehopeorg.org/

On the very top you have to hit current events to get the latest story. They changed something about a year ago I think.

I quit using winki when I found out the articles could be changed.

The thing with the Trib and the hope org. has been there for sometime. I don't understand the details and quite frankly I was kinda scared to ask. I have used a lot of Brookes articles over here.

There is something in the air and I haven't figured it out.

[walton]

Originally posted by juliekan


Was watching a show about a cult on Larry King last night and he asked them why they couldn't leave...They said they could leave anytime they wanted, no one would chase them down or put them in a psych ward or send them to another family. BUT, they said, the "psychological barriers" (their term) were instilled from birth. They were afraid of all the unknowns outside of the group. Sounds like what you described above. [/*]

I watched a movie called the Villiage and that is about the best example of what "psychological barriers" can do to a person.

When I was watching it, I told my husband that is what it is like for those inside of the FLDS walls.

Warrens cult kept building these walls not only around the homes of these people but the people themselves. What is ironic is that Warren supposedly is now himself behind walls.

Very good movie. imo

[walton]

http://www.truthwillprevail.org/index.php?index=0&parentid=1

Read the articles Real Child Abuse and Dan Fischer Abusive Husband and Father

Earlier in one of my posts I had said that the article is a tell all and a person should read between the lines.

I hate abuse of any kind. And I have little tolerance for those that do the abusing. I have even less tolerance for those that see abusive behaviour and do NOTHING to stop it.

I don't know if Mr. Fischer did any of those things. What I do see is people that say they saw it happen, knew it was abusive and they did NOTHING. Now that just makes my skin crawl and blood boil.

They are saying that the culture that they grew up in was abusive and mentally unfit. And yet they defend this very same culture and want to remain inside.

At least Mr. Fischer is out of there. At least Mr.Fischer is using his experience and putting it towards the good.

I believe all this crap coming out about Mr. Fischer and Natalie are desperate measures made by desperate people.

I wonder if Rod Parker is helping this kind of Justice move along so swiftly from net to net.

[Cat2007]

Originally posted by walton
:seeya: Hi there Cat

Mr. Singular was one of the guys that was at the Senate hearing. And he also is one that has been on tv talking about this story. He is on my list as one of the good guys.

I haven't read his book..... yet. But his is one for sure that I am going to read.

Did you know that it was his wife that told him to check all this out? And.... he gives her credit for it. The guy gets a thumbs up from me and so does his wife. [/*]

Yes, walton; I just read that in his acknowledgements today. Good for her for getting him interested.

There is about a chapter that is basically rehash of what Elissa Wall wrote in her book, so I could skip that part. I know it had to be included for someone who hadn't read extensively about her.

[Cat2007]

Originally posted by Imperfect


Hi Cat,

I haven't read the book, but it's on my list.

Based on your review, it'll be the next one I get. [/*]

Imperfect, I'm sure you won't be disappointed.