July 2 thru 12/31

[lotty]

Originally posted by walton
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700253767,00.html

A judge in Kingman, Ariz., has declined to throw out an indictment against Fundamentalist LDS Church leader Warren Jeffs.
Mohave County Superior Court Judge Steven Conn released his ruling late Monday, denying a motion by Jeffs' attorneys to remand the case back to the grand jury. In a 14-page ruling, Conn noted the massive amounts of publicity coverage surrounding the case, but said there was nothing to show it deprived Jeffs of a fair and impartial grand jury.



Looks like Warrens attorney is starting to speak up. He isn't anything like ol' Wally. Should be interesting. [/*]

Walton,
Judge Conn really had me worried on this one...

Woohooo!
:seeya: As always JMO/IMO.

[Roux]

Originally posted by walton
http://thehopeorg.org/YFZ_case-2833-motion-8-5-08.pdf

Really long but ya gotta read this.


:eek: [/*]

I read as much as I could take, but all that nonsense in Warren's diary is way more than I can stomach. It is so utterly disgusting to portray himself as hearing from God and thereby dictating people's lifes. Like Imperfect said, it's all about control.

And I guess I had been a little confused about his marriages, thinking there were two in question, but it seems there was LJB at 14, BLF at 12, and MJ at 12.

Thank goodness that Judge Conn ruled the way he did; I was nervous about it. Warren's attorney can appeal to the 12th of never and he will not find a grand jury acceptable to him. These appeals are costly -- where is the $$ coming from to pay him?

And one last comment regarding the poll that juliekan posted. If the majority of the people seem to be in favor of federal intervention (albeit it was a very small poll), why hasn't Shurtleff been more aggressive? I had always thought he let sleeping dogs lie because of public tolerance of the FLDS.

[walton]

Roux try to get past the yawn Warren is the Almighty stuff.

When Warren was in hiding and they were bringing him monies (lots of money) some of it was missing. They were short changing the Prophet.

When Warren was talking about gathering all of his wives to " rub the aches and pains" he mentioned Patricia. :eek: Is this Patricia Keate?

When he was talking about Bishop William Jessop was he talking about the one we all know as Willie?

Namoi is listed as a witness to other marriages.

At one point Shurtleff wanted the UEP put into his name. :O What the heck?



This stuff is powerful imo.

I should have been looking at all that stuff (links) from get go. I thought it would be a bunch of lawyer language that would be over my head.

[walton]

Originally posted by lotty


Walton,
Judge Conn really had me worried on this one...

Woohooo!
:seeya: As always JMO/IMO. [/*]

It isn't like I don't trust Judge Steven F. Conn.

But I really have a hard time having faith in a Judge that did what he did and topped it off with the comments he made. jmo

ok... maybe I don't trust the guy. But this is obviously a good thing.

[juliekan]

I need to get some brain food so I will remember some of these things I keep forgetting. I think I read that William Jessop is a different person from Willie J. Some extraneous article, can't back this up :punch:

[Roux]

While I was reading juliekan's poll link, I clicked over to Brooke's blog to see if she had anything recent. There is stuff there on Barbara's reaction and feelings about Merrianne being taken away. It just doesn't add up to me, i.e., the clinging and crying and how horrible to be separated from her child. We know that Barbara travels a lot, I believe that the FLDS mothers only project bonding and beatific maternal poses to sway the public and/or when it suits their needs. They live in homes with multiple women and call each one mother. How attached could they truly be?

The video of Merrianne was hard to watch but I kept thinking that was very immature behavior for a 14 year old. I'm not being hard-hearted about it, but that's the way it seemed to me.

[walton]

Imperfect I had ordered Carolyns book but I haven't read it yet.

I opened it up and read about the difficulties she had during her 4th pregnancy. I stopped when she said that the husbands had to authorize a trip to the hospital. The chapter is called Warrens Rise to Power.

I haven't continued because I don't want people like Tophound to say that I am swayed by those writing books. I can't tell you how hard it is for me to have these books here and not read them.

I still haven't seen the video of Merriane. My son flys home tonight and hopefully he'll be able to straighten out my computer.

I can't remember when but they had a rally in Utah. Some of those practicing polygamy were taking a stand. Heidi was one of them.

They put the kids in the forefront voicing how they are living a happy life/ polygamy is about choice and it shouldn't be anyones business as it was consenting adults that chose this lifestyle.

But these were the voices of their kids. This is a form of Abuse imo.


It seems to be a pattern to put the kids up front to fight their battles. jmo

[walton]

Originally posted by Roux
While I was reading juliekan's poll link, I clicked over to Brooke's blog to see if she had anything recent. There is stuff there on Barbara's reaction and feelings about Merrianne being taken away. It just doesn't add up to me, i.e., the clinging and crying and how horrible to be separated from her child. We know that Barbara travels a lot, I believe that the FLDS mothers only project bonding and beatific maternal poses to sway the public and/or when it suits their needs. They live in homes with multiple women and call each one mother. How attached could they truly be?

The video of Merrianne was hard to watch but I kept thinking that was very immature behavior for a 14 year old. I'm not being hard-hearted about it, but that's the way it seemed to me. [/*]

I've been reading the blog and the comments. I am not sure why I keep reading the comments.

rericson is driving me crazy. She comes off as an expert and if she truly was an expert I wish she would say at what. I might be more understanding. But for now it seems to me that she is one of the do-gooders that hasn't a clue. jmo

Texasbluesman is really good about calling her on things. :) Straight and to the point that man is.

[walton]

Originally posted by lotty


Yes!
<sarcasm on> But, I'm sure he has a legitimate explanation for how he gets around on the FLDS dime.

<sarcasm off> Or he won't be explaining it at all...and not one journalist will ask the question. "Exactly how do you afford to get around the country so quickly Mr. Jessop?"

As always JMO/IMO. [/*]

lotty do you remember sometime ago there was a few articles about the people in CPark expanding? Was that near or on the Berry Knoll area?

Was there some politican/politicans involved?

I am not sure but is this property between the FLDS and the CPark group? Are they merging?

Is the person that wants to buy this big hunk of land one of the Kingstons? or is it one of the Allreds?

Has there been a follow up to the young man (Merril Jessops son) who died out at the Ranch?

[juliekan]

Originally posted by walton
http://thehopeorg.org/YFZ_case-2833-motion-8-5-08.pdf

Really long but ya gotta read this.


:eek: [/*]

I've gotten through 29 pages and:eek: is right!!

[juliekan]

Originally posted by walton
http://thehopeorg.org/YFZ_case-2833-motion-8-5-08.pdf

Really long but ya gotta read this.


:eek: [/*]

From the above article:

Millie is chastised for her looseness in her talk and touching of others. Merrianne is warned to beware of her childhood weaknesses of light-mindedness. The men are told to be more strict with allowing the women to "rub each others" aches and pains as this is like a chiropractor and such is of the devil. WJ reads confession letters from the ladies. So, no fun, no hugs, no physical relief for these ladies!

WJ notes that not all the money is being received from Short Creek. Later complains that David Allred is now in Nevada, not Short Creek, and is doing work that has not been cleared with WJ. Intimates that he thinks Allred is not sending his share of $$ to Short Creek. Also complains that LeRoy Jeffs and Ron Rohbock and others are "fighting against us." WJ complains that the people up north want him dead so that they can keep their homes, lands, and families. (well duh). He says this is why they have had to have changes in the priesthood. (I guess they got booted.)

At the bottom of one page it starts with FBI agent called Mike Emack on his mobile.... :confused: it doesn't continue after that but what is an FBI agent doing calling one of them on their mobile?

WJ recounts how a man came down to YFZ from Short Creek via Albequerque for his daughter to be married. But WJ had a vision(more likely a phone call) of the enemy following Seth Jeffs who was with them and made them turn around and drive back. Who was following them? FBI? Could have caught them crossing state lines to marry off an underage girl if they had gone through with the ceremony that night as planned.

On their marriage licenses, there is a spot labeled "duration". Noticed that they were all for Time and Eternity except when some of Rulon's wives were remarried to WJ, it was labeled for Time only. I guess he doesn't get credit in heaven for those.

And there's Naomi writing all this down. Can you imagine the power she must have wielded with all this inside information?

[juliekan]

Originally posted by Roux
While I was reading juliekan's poll link, I clicked over to Brooke's blog to see if she had anything recent. There is stuff there on Barbara's reaction and feelings about Merrianne being taken away. It just doesn't add up to me, i.e., the clinging and crying and how horrible to be separated from her child. We know that Barbara travels a lot, I believe that the FLDS mothers only project bonding and beatific maternal poses to sway the public and/or when it suits their needs. They live in homes with multiple women and call each one mother. How attached could they truly be?

The video of Merrianne was hard to watch but I kept thinking that was very immature behavior for a 14 year old. I'm not being hard-hearted about it, but that's the way it seemed to me. [/*]

They probably told her to perform for the camera. So she drew on her own life experience...she called up the emotions she felt when she found out she was getting married to an old goat......

sorry, i'm just cynical today

[walton]

juliekan what did he mean on page 28

Something about a private revelation for the greater atoning sacrifice required.

What was all that about?


Does anyone know?

[juliekan]

Originally posted by walton
juliekan what did he mean on page 28

Something about a private revelation for the greater atoning sacrifice required.

What was all that about?


Does anyone know? [/*]

I don't know, but I think he referenced it more than once, the Sept, 2003 revelation. The first time was the women, and then I don't remember who it was next. I may have to slog through it again and see if I'm right. I just know it gave me the chills, brought up visions of kool-aid, because he referred to it while complaining of the persecution that he was foreseeing and difficult times for the cult in the future.

and the 3 women he told, Naomi, Ida, and Patricia. Patricia Keate?

[walton]

I don't know if he is talking about Patricia Keate or not. Keep in mind though that she Patricia Keate was one of the people that went to see Warren with Naomi before and after the Raid.

Man, I really was thinking it was Warren dressing up in a wig and going to and from the jail.

In this diary book that we are reading he talks about Naomi telling him that he had left his physical being for up to 45 minutes,

Is he sniffing that stuff in those air cans that people use to clean their computers? chewing on peyote buttons? drifting in and out? Was he sickly?

Wow. There is more stuff on the bottom of that page over at the Hope org. I gonna see if there is more of this in those links.

[juliekan]

Originally posted by walton
I don't know if he is talking about Patricia Keate or not. Keep in mind though that she Patricia Keate was one of the people that went to see Warren with Naomi before and after the Raid.

Man, I really was thinking it was Warren dressing up in a wig and going to and from the jail.

In this diary book that we are reading he talks about Naomi telling him that he had left his physical being for up to 45 minutes,

Is he sniffing that stuff in those air cans that people use to clean their computers? chewing on peyote buttons? drifting in and out? Was he sickly?

Wow. There is more stuff on the bottom of that page over at the Hope org. I gonna see if there is more of this in those links. [/*]

Yeah, to all who read what I posted from the site, that was just a few things I noted while reading. There's tons more going on than what I wrote. I don't know if this guy is nuts, or probably just using all his continual revelations (and I mean CONTINUAL ) to rationalize all his decisions, but it's probably BOTH.

I had a roommate at college once who wouldn't even go to visit her boyfriend on the weekend unless she felt "God opened that door." God gave you a mind, make your own decisions.

[juliekan]

Originally posted by Imperfect


Walton ...

#1 - I sure wouldn't let another poster here (or anyone else) keep you fron reading your books. Read away, I say.

#2 - The men use the women as their mouthpieces and shields; the women do the same with the children. I feel like I'm watching a bunch of actors on a stage, starting with Warren and his 'revelations.' They're all acting. It's sooo creepy. [/*]

Walton, you would let a "sock puppet" keep you from reading....you are so being too polite. You have shown yourself capable of looking objectively at what you read, no matter who is posting. No need to give Evalles the satisfaction that she was finally able to change anyone's way of thinking or what they read. Tophound, I mean Eva, should not be rewarded for her "ignore the issue, attack the poster" schtick.

[juliekan]

I posted earlier that Mike Emack received a call from the FBI on his phone per the long diary kept by WJ. Just dawned on me he is one of the men that got charged with assault of a child and bigamy...DUH...:punch: actually that just makes it more interesting i guess

[lotty]

Originally posted by walton


lotty do you remember sometime ago there was a few articles about the people in CPark expanding? Was that near or on the Berry Knoll area?

Was there some politican/politicans involved?

I am not sure but is this property between the FLDS and the CPark group? Are they merging?

Is the person that wants to buy this big hunk of land one of the Kingstons? or is it one of the Allreds?

Has there been a follow up to the young man (Merril Jessops son) who died out at the Ranch? [/*]
I don't recall, depending what you read CPark is anywhere from 1 to 3 miles from CC...and yes in the Berry Knoll vicinity (which btw was supposed to be the future site of the FLDS Temple, if they were ever worthy enough, depending on how you read things.) Or should I say depending on who you are willing to believe.
I don't recall politicians being involved, could be wrong.
This is the property between the two, CP and CC/Hildale...I don't know about merging...I would think not, unless FLDS is willing to walk away from WJ. I can't see the CP members returning from whence they came, that would involve giving up way to much free agency, to my way of thinking.
I don't know who is interested in buying the berry knoll property.

As usual Walton these are very good questions. Sure would like to hear some answers.

As always JMO/IMO

[lotty]

http://www.slweekly.com/index.cfm?do=article.details&id=04EB3C67-14D1-13A2-9F13F266BD9ED864
Feature | Halfway Home: FLDS Lost Boys Find Life Begins at The House Just Off Bluff

By John Pike
Posted 08/28/2008

[juliekan]

Originally posted by lotty
http://www.slweekly.com/index.cfm?do=article.details&id=04EB3C67-14D1-13A2-9F13F266BD9ED864
Feature | Halfway Home: FLDS Lost Boys Find Life Begins at The House Just Off Bluff

By John Pike
Posted 08/28/2008 [/*]

thanks lotty, terrific article...my heart just about broke when Hiram was saying (twice) that he'd probably fail if he goes to college. God bless those that are helping these kids. There's got to be a special place in heaven for them.

[walton]

Hey everyone waving hello ( using the smilies elsewhere)

I'm just stopping in for a bit but I'll stop back later. Here is a picture of me and my family.

:) :) :) ( Good lookin' bunch aren't we?) lol

Can't use any more smilies. But the other kids are coming later. I crack me up sometimes.

Lotty wonderful article thanks for bringing the link over. I really liked the whole thing but this made me laugh.

Hyrum is soft-spoken and responds with a “Yes, ma’am,” or “No, sir.” His friend Bruce wants to know what kind of language they can use during an interview with a reporter.



I even left a short comment over there.

Juliekan and Imperfect I am going to take your advice and say the heck with it- I am going to read my books. Another smilie would go here. I love to read. I'll deal with anything as it comes my way.

There is something about Berry Knoll that keeps swimming in the back of my head. I will try to look into it some more. Were they going to add a sub-division or something there and the politicans got involved? Yeah, I know the FLDS wanted to use that as a special place. I'll post a link there about the history thing.

And..... the story that Ben did where it stated Warren was in jail. Doran did not say Yes, Warren is in jail. He just said "yes, he is in jail." Doran and Gary Engles are straight up people. Kinda like Texasbluesman. Straight up and to the point.

Doran wouldn't lie. So.... Yes, someone is in jail. But is Warren Jeffs in jail? .........That sneaky Ben.

Think about it. Am I right? or am I wrong?

Catch ya all later.

[lotty]

You are welcome everyone, I liked the article as well.

Walton,
what you are saying about the subdivision sounds familiar, I will keep checking. Enjoy your family!
:)
Good to "see" everyone else.
I'll be in and out quite a bit, but will try to keep up.
I tried to read the thing on Merriane. I'll get back to it later. Between the :eek: and barf I had to stop.
As always JMO/IMO.

[juliekan]

walton, glad your family is together, here's mine

:punch: kids, :cuss: me, :shrug: my DH

[walton]

I really like you guys. :)

Today is Insessions Food day at our house. All of the meals I've planned today are using the reciepes from the food court here. The kids say I am weird but they ask for Warhorses French toast bake every time they come home.

I am going to pass on some links that I hope are new to you.

And then of course I have some questions.

Berry Knoll Farms is that the same as the Harker Farms? If so... Check this out.

http://books.google.com/books?id=NMJKHM9vLQoC&pg=PA158&lpg=PA158&dq=berry+knoll+farms+flds&source=web&ots=tUdGN6_d6O&sig=Q1wdWSVzIsMuukrD1D1dc0k78Kk&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result#PPA158,M1 I don't know how to make those small linky things.

Ben Bistline talked about Berry Knoll Farms in his book the Polygamists. ( I have that book but not the one listed above.) Although it appears he touches the same base in this one.

Interesting little peice of history with the farm/UEP and who got it and how.

I decided to take your advice and started reading Escape. I'm not that far but what I've read is very interesting.

One of the things that Carolyn mentions is the games that they use to play was based on some history that happened at the Berry Knoll. It concerned a story about Robert, Joseph and Isabella Berry.

Geez I love the internet. Here is some facts concerning the true story about that event. Go down to the part where they talk about Grafton Cemetary. Now they used this story to scare the heck out of the kids.

Now step it up a notch...http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy15.html

The Liftoff: Most versions of the story have the righteous members lifting off from the base of a juniper-covered hill south of town known as Berry Knoll, which is said to be the site for the temple the polygamous church had hoped to construct one day.

Berry Knoll was coincidentally the site of a tragedy in April 1866 when early pioneer settlers Joseph Robert and his wife, Isabella, were slaughtered by the local American Indians.

The hill today is owned by a church trust called the United Effort Plan, which is governed by a powerful board of seven religious leaders, called the quorum, including Rulon Jeffs.


Mind Control? You betcha!!

I am not very far into the book. But I am very glad I've started and very very glad Carolyn wrote the book.


Just a note. As I was reading about this I tried to reflect on my life as a small child. How easily we are influenced by what people say.

Growing up during the time that I did we were told to eat everything on our plates. No matter. Mom made cream peas. Dad told me that they were actually fish eyes.

I sat there while the others got dessert. I was still sitting there when the others were getting ready for bed.

That plate of fish eyes was still sitting there when I went to bed.
Got up in the morning those fish eyes were still sitting there. No Cheerios for me.

I was scared those fisheyes would be there when I came home from school.

They weren't.

Never had to have them again after I told mom what Dad told me what they were. Dad thought he was funny but mom didn't. She handed him a can of peas and a spoon that night for supper.

But to this day- I don't like peas.

Funny thinking about it today. But I was scared of that plate of fisheyes.


Have a good day everyone.

[lotty]

I've thought a lot about a poster's posts...and Walton I'm glad you are reading Carolyn's book.

To inform ourselves is important, I think this is a well informed group. I try to read everything I can about this group, somethings even if I don't agree, I can see some of where it is coming from...some just make me sick, but I think it all helps to form an honest and complete opinion. Everyone here, I think makes an honest effort to be respectful of everyone's opinions...even if they disagree. I don't like the personal attacks a poster made...it isn't conducive to an open conversation.

So some of the things a poster brought up were interesting, such as the "fact" that we as outsiders don't understand their language or use of common words. That they are open to family members and friends who are no longer members of their group (I have not read an account of this being true, if it is it seems to not be for long periods of time, it seems to always come to an end, whether quickly or after a few years.)

So I came across this and found it quite interesting when applied to the FLDS and what they do and how they do it (in the public eye ofcourse,) what they say and how they say it. Just something else to think about.

As always JMO/IMO.

http://www.factnet.org/coercivemindcontrol.html

[Roux]

Walton, I am sitting here having my coffee and just thoroughly enjoying your post. First thing I do every morning after everyone's left the house is to sit down with my coffee and see what news and links the great posters here have added.

Like Imp, I've been reading a lot on the Caylee Anthony thread but there's way too many posters & it moves too fast for me.

Happy & safe holiday weekend to all.
:seeya:

[Roux]

Thanks Lotty! Another great link to read while I have my second cup.

[lotty]

Originally posted by Roux
Thanks Lotty! Another great link to read while I have my second cup. [/*]

YW! I sent you a pm.
Isn't it interesting how people can be controlled...several things caught my attention in that article. The hypnotic way of speaking, listening to the tapes of WJ over and over, the development of an inside language, punishment and reward, isolation....a lot of this makes perfect sense.

[lotty]

This was e-mailed to me this morning...I thought it appropriate for this thread.
As always JMO/IMO.



Matt. 18:4-5
'Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
And who ever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me.'


Johnny's Mother looked out the window and noticed
him 'playing church' with their cat.
He had the cat sitting quietly and he was preaching to it.
She smiled and went about her work.
A while later she heard loud meowing and hissing and ran back
to the open window to see Johnny baptizing the cat in a tub of water.
She called out, 'Johnny, stop that! The cat is afraid of water!'
Johnny looked up at her and said,
'He should have thought about that before he joined my church.'


Smile, it gives your face something to do!

:biggrin:

[lotty]

GGW,
Pm's coming your way! Good to see you!:seeya:

[Roux]

Originally posted by GollyGeeWhiz
Roux -- you need to clean out your PM box, my friend.

:seeya: [/*]

Thanks. Glad you've come back to post with us. :seeya:

[lotty]

Originally posted by walton
I really like you guys. :)

Today is Insessions Food day at our house. All of the meals I've planned today are using the reciepes from the food court here. The kids say I am weird but they ask for Warhorses French toast bake every time they come home.

I am going to pass on some links that I hope are new to you.

And then of course I have some questions.

Berry Knoll Farms is that the same as the Harker Farms? If so... Check this out.

http://books.google.com/books?id=NMJKHM9vLQoC&pg=PA158&lpg=PA158&dq=berry+knoll+farms+flds&source=web&ots=tUdGN6_d6O&sig=Q1wdWSVzIsMuukrD1D1dc0k78Kk&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result#PPA158,M1 I don't know how to make those small linky things.


Have a good day everyone. [/*]
<respectfully snipped> Harker Farms is about 100 miles from Colorado City, AZ it is in Beryl, Utah.:)

[lotty]

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635186759,00.html
Huge farm in Nevada aids FLDS
Profit from thousands of acres of hay may go to fund church

By John Hollenhorst
KSL-TV
Published: Wednesday, Feb. 22, 2006 11:40 p.m. MST
It's visible in satellite photos from space.
A giant green patch stands out from the surrounding Nevada desert. And the greenery may be an important source of revenue for the church led by fugitive polygamist Warren Jeffs.

[juliekan]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by walton

<snipped>
Now step it up a notch...http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy15.html

The Liftoff: Most versions of the story have the righteous members lifting off from the base of a juniper-covered hill south of town known as Berry Knoll, which is said to be the site for the temple the polygamous church had hoped to construct one day.
<snipped>

From this article: A resident speaks. "You can imagine the *ss-kissing that's taking place...stress levels are running high with only 2,500 getting chosen. I'll bet with all the evil thoughts going around, there aren't too many qualified for heaven at this point."

:biggrin:

[juliekan]

Originally posted by lotty
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635186759,00.html
Huge farm in Nevada aids FLDS
Profit from thousands of acres of hay may go to fund church

By John Hollenhorst
KSL-TV
Published: Wednesday, Feb. 22, 2006 11:40 p.m. MST
It's visible in satellite photos from space.
A giant green patch stands out from the surrounding Nevada desert. And the greenery may be an important source of revenue for the church led by fugitive polygamist Warren Jeffs. [/*]

so could it be flds and not aliens making all those crop circles? :biggrin: sorry weak joke. Do you know if this farm is still being worked?

[Roux]

Originally posted by lotty
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635186759,00.html
Huge farm in Nevada aids FLDS
Profit from thousands of acres of hay may go to fund church

By John Hollenhorst
KSL-TV
Published: Wednesday, Feb. 22, 2006 11:40 p.m. MST
It's visible in satellite photos from space.
A giant green patch stands out from the surrounding Nevada desert. And the greenery may be an important source of revenue for the church led by fugitive polygamist Warren Jeffs. [/*]

The "green patch" made me remember that guy that was chairman of the mental health group who so criticized CPS; didn't he have some irrigation company?

[lotty]

Originally posted by juliekan


so could it be flds and not aliens making all those crop circles? :biggrin: sorry weak joke. Do you know if this farm is still being worked? [/*]

LOL, yes it is listed as still being worked. PM coming your way.

[lotty]

Originally posted by Roux


The "green patch" made me remember that guy that was chairman of the mental health group who so criticized CPS; didn't he have some irrigation company? [/*]

OMG! I think you are right. Do you remember his name? I can't for the life of me...see if I can look it up.:punch:

[lotty]

Roux,
Was it W. John Walsh, can you remember?

Julie,
You should look at the satellite image on google maps! Wow. If the water table is pretty high there, it might not be too expensive to water all of that. I don't know.

[Roux]

I think it is John Knight, on board of ttees, Hill Country Mental Health.
I guess the state can't refute all those nasty accusations, but it really bothers me that nothing more was ever said about their claims. IMO they were exaggerated, anonymous and not truly legitimate.

[juliekan]

http://www.custercountynews.com/localnews/2008/08/more-flds-men-engage-in-underage-marriages/

Documents identify at least 10 more men who were married to girls age 16 or younger

[lotty]

Originally posted by Roux
I think it is John Knight, on board of ttees, Hill Country Mental Health.
I guess the state can't refute all those nasty accusations, but it really bothers me that nothing more was ever said about their claims. IMO they were exaggerated, anonymous and not truly legitimate. [/*]

My brain isn't working as well as I would like today. I remember the story, ugh, as it was brought up with lots of enthusiasm from some posters. I remember the sprinkler thing, I just can't remember the whole thing, will look it up later. My brain needs a nap.

I agree it was pretty overstated. JMO

[Roux]

Originally posted by juliekan
http://www.custercountynews.com/localnews/2008/08/more-flds-men-engage-in-underage-marriages/

Documents identify at least 10 more men who were married to girls age 16 or younger [/*]

From the article: they will have a hard time getting convictions.
Yes, especially if the attorneys for the girls behave in the future like they have behaved in the past, except for poor Melonis. She was criticized so roundly for having the courage to stand up to her client and her client's family. Now the truth has come out on that situation!

[juliekan]

http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_10339447

FLDS Church Seeks $8.8 Million in UEP Trust Lawsuit

Rodney Parker doesn't have a leg to stand on IMO.

[juliekan]

Articles on Apple Valley

http://www.childbrides.org/politics_des_FLDS_truss_firm.html

Zoning change opposed

Anti-polygamy activist Bob Curran of Help the Child Brides in St. George accused Hildale officials of trying to expand the FLDS church's land holdings by annexing Apple Valley (from 2003)

[juliekan]

UEP land may be sold next month

http://www.childbrides.org/UEP_spec_UEP_land_may_be_sold.html

From 2005:

Explains who and how Apple Valley property was transferred to FLDS insiders.
Note that part of the proceeds of this sale would go to pay Rod Parker attorney fees.

[juliekan]

http://ronlawhouston.blogspot.com

I love reading "Ron's Insanity" (well it's only 2nd behind TxBluesman.) Good blogs and tasty for discussing. Hope ya'll stop by today. :seeya:

[juliekan]

Originally posted by grammybear


Julie thanks for opening this thread and bring this article over. I do not believe The FLDS have a leg to stand on. It just sounds to me like it is sour grapes to wait this long to bring on a suit of this. My understand of the FLDS is that not one member of that group holds title to any property. It is all held by the UEP in other words Warren Jeffs. I think this group is just mad because the public is seeing their true colors and they are being brought up on charges of illegal activities now. They did this to themselves. If they had not broke the laws they would not be in the mess they are in now.

jmoo [/*]

I think it's funny that Rod Parker (I assume) is being paid to represent FLDS in this case, and earlier, per the other articles, he was supposed to get money previously owed him from another suit AGAINST the FLDS. :mad: He gets money comin' and a goin'

[juliekan]

Originally posted by grammybear


<snipped>

Barbara Jessop was so adamant about her testimony when she continually pled the 5th but now she is crying to the public that she misses her child when she thought it was ok to let her then 12 year old be married to a much older man.

Unbelievable. I think we are just seeing the tip of the iceberg of all the atrocities of this group.

jmoo [/*]

Barbara is in sort of a no win situation, damned if she does testify, damned if she doesn't....guess what....damn ME if it comes down to my kids, leave them alone

[walton]

Originally posted by juliekan
UEP land may be sold next month

http://www.childbrides.org/UEP_spec_UEP_land_may_be_sold.html

From 2005:

Explains who and how Apple Valley property was transferred to FLDS insiders.
Note that part of the proceeds of this sale would go to pay Rod Parker attorney fees. [/*]

Hi everyone. Just poppin in for a little bit. Thanks for the links. I just took this link and did some google things and look what I got. lol

Sure seems as though people are gonna start sweating even if the weather isn't hot. more lol

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2006/Dec-10-Sun-2006/business/11041288.html

Hmmmm


If they can't do it in one big swoop I guess I'll watch them do the babystep thing. :D

[walton]

Originally posted by juliekan
UEP land may be sold next month

http://www.childbrides.org/UEP_spec_UEP_land_may_be_sold.html

From 2005:

Explains who and how Apple Valley property was transferred to FLDS insiders.
Note that part of the proceeds of this sale would go to pay Rod Parker attorney fees. [/*]

Hi everyone. Just poppin in for a little bit. Thanks for the links. I just took this link and did some google things and look what I got. lol

Sure seems as though people are gonna start sweating even if the weather isn't hot. more lol

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2006/Dec-10-Sun-2006/business/11041288.html

These nominee officers and directors even can sign for bank accounts for these Nevada corporations.

Arizona requires corporate officials owning more than 10 percent of a company's stock to report whether they have been convicted of certain felonies, mainly financial white-collar crimes, said David Raber, corporations division director for the Arizona Corporation Corporations Commission.

Inhale Solutions lists Charles Bain, the administrator at Nevada First Holdings, as its president, secretary, treasurer and director. He is the only official named on the filing with the Nevada secretary of state's office. Yet, Bain is only a nominee officer and nominee director.

Bain is listed as one or more officers for about 90 active companies who filed business organization papers with the Nevada Secretary of State's Commercial Recordings Division.

Hmmmm


If they can't do it in one big swoop I guess I'll watch them do the babystep thing. :D

I do wonder where those Allred boys are keeping themselves.

[walton]

Sorry about the double post.

Kids have been working on my computer.

The print is so small I gotta lean into... and they threatened to do the Homer simpson asking for Beer thing again everytime I sign in.


Adult kids playing practical jokes( they moved my shelves around in the fridge, moved the living room furniture into the dining room so they could practice bowling) grandson with whistles, husband must be going blind as he doesn't see the need to help with dishes.

I am loving it. :) Have a good day and I'll see ya after they all go to bed. My time of the day.

[juliekan]

Originally posted by walton


Hi everyone. Just poppin in for a little bit. Thanks for the links. I just took this link and did some google things and look what I got. lol

Sure seems as though people are gonna start sweating even if the weather isn't hot. more lol

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2006/Dec-10-Sun-2006/business/11041288.html

These nominee officers and directors even can sign for bank accounts for these Nevada corporations.

Arizona requires corporate officials owning more than 10 percent of a company's stock to report whether they have been convicted of certain felonies, mainly financial white-collar crimes, said David Raber, corporations division director for the Arizona Corporation Corporations Commission.

Inhale Solutions lists Charles Bain, the administrator at Nevada First Holdings, as its president, secretary, treasurer and director. He is the only official named on the filing with the Nevada secretary of state's office. Yet, Bain is only a nominee officer and nominee director.

Bain is listed as one or more officers for about 90 active companies who filed business organization papers with the Nevada Secretary of State's Commercial Recordings Division.

Hmmmm


If they can't do it in one big swoop I guess I'll watch them do the babystep thing. :D

I do wonder where those Allred boys are keeping themselves. [/*]

I can find no where that Ross Miller has tried to change a thing. From the article "Ross Miller,...cited reasons for the corporate secrecy in Nevada but called for reforms." He goes on to cite several things that would be good to be changed.
Now check http://www.nevadafirst.com/

No changes in how incorporating is handled.

Aug. 20, 2008
http://www.politickernv.com/wallynv/2250/miller-making-gubernatorial-waves

Miller Making Gubernatorial Waves

Also, Google ads when you pull up Miller's name includes www.nevadaonly.com, a company just like Nevada First

Politicians.....:punch:

[juliekan]

Originally posted by GollyGeeWhiz
Roux,

Your mailbox is still full. Did you clean out your sent and tracking messages, too?

:seeya: [/*]

hope so, I just pm'd her. I keep thinking I'm forgetting to send someone a pm that we're here.

then I remember who....

RIP :D

[Roux]

Originally posted by GollyGeeWhiz
Roux,

Your mailbox is still full. Did you clean out your sent and tracking messages, too?

:seeya: [/*]

Sorry, didn't mean to be rude. I cleared mailbox but didn't know about tracking :D

[Shells2]

I hope they don't see one red cent. Those people are freaks IMO and money would only help them continue this disgustingness..

[Roux]

Originally posted by grammybear
Hi Golly, It is so nice to see you here again. I do not think the FLDS are as pure as some people claim. With the corporation laws being what they are of course people are going to take advantage of this factor.
I think we will see this group taken down one by one. It will be slow but I think we are seeing it happen.
I suspect with all the indictments coming down in Texas and now Nevada taking a fresh look at the corporation laws I am sure sone of these people are really starting to worry. For so many years this group has gotten away with so much but the tide is turning and we are going to see more indictments coming down.

jmoo [/*]

I'd still like to know if Warren will be in Texas for the Sept 7 (or was it the 8th?) hearing. Probably not; he'll probably still be in AZ jail.

I must go back and read more about the additional men who have been charged with underage marriages.

[Roux]

Originally posted by Shells2
I hope they don't see one red cent. Those people are freaks IMO and money would only help them continue this disgustingness.. [/*]

Financial collapse of their various enterprises will certainly go a long way toward melting the glue that holds them together. No way should they ever be given another government contract of any kind after all the illegal stuff they have done.

[walton]

Originally posted by GollyGeeWhiz
aHA! Now I understand more about why so many FLDS businesses have 'relocated' to the Las Vegas area.

I was assuming it was because Vegas is in relatively close proximity to C-City, and also because there's so much growth in Vegas that there'd be no scrutiny.

NOW I see that it has to do with incorporation laws. Makes even more sense now.

There are some very tricky folks in and around those simple, humble FLDS'ers, aren't there? [/*]

Very nice to see you. :seeya:

I can't imagine what Bruce Wisans office must look like. :eek:

[walton]

http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy379.html

From 2005

Bruce Wisan was appointed by the court to manage the trust. Now circumstances have forced him to deal with the same so-called shell companies. He needs cash himself to operate the trust so he negotiated a 2 million dollar deal to sell 436 acres.

But former Jeffs lawyer Rod Parker gets a piece of the deal. Jeff's loyalists insisted on a $425,000 payment to Parker's law firm, which they said the trust owed in unpaid legal fees.

Bruce Wisan: "Certainly it was part of the deal and it was non-negotiable and I believe that Warren Jeffs was behind that." Q: "But you've said you think the fees are probably legitimate?" A: "Oh I think the fees were legitimate."

The implied threat was, accept the package deal or Jeffs' people could tie up trust properties for years in expensive legal battles.

So I wonder what the deal is with Rod Parker the on and off attorney for the FLDS. He is and he isn't and he is again.

[walton]

http://www.deseretnews.com/pdf/082908_fldscom.pdf

I wonder if Rod Parker and firm charge by the page?

:( Why can't they ever keep it simple?

I'll have to pop over to texasbluesman and Rons place to figure this one out.

[lotty]

Where has Scott Berry been in all of this? Does he even work for anything FLDS anymore? What's up?

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data2/circs/10th/064121p.pdf

[lotty]

Originally posted by walton
http://www.deseretnews.com/pdf/082908_fldscom.pdf

I wonder if Rod Parker and firm charge by the page?

:( Why can't they ever keep it simple?

I'll have to pop over to texasbluesman and Rons place to figure this one out. [/*]

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_10342963
UEP trust dispute
FLDS seek $8.8M in suit
Church says an '07 award to property trust it once held was obtained by fraud
By Jason Bergreen
The Salt Lake Tribune
Article Last Updated: 08/30/2008 01:34:24 AM MDT

The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints filed a lawsuit Friday asking a Utah court to set aside a 2007 judgment that awarded nearly $8.8 million to a trust once overseen by Warren S. Jeffs.


Walton,
Read the comments at the end of this article...Wow! JMO

[walton]

Originally posted by lotty


http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_10342963
UEP trust dispute
FLDS seek $8.8M in suit
Church says an '07 award to property trust it once held was obtained by fraud
By Jason Bergreen
The Salt Lake Tribune
Article Last Updated: 08/30/2008 01:34:24 AM MDT

The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints filed a lawsuit Friday asking a Utah court to set aside a 2007 judgment that awarded nearly $8.8 million to a trust once overseen by Warren S. Jeffs.


Walton,
Read the comments at the end of this article...Wow! JMO [/*]

There were 10 posts there at the time that I read it. I get side tracked so easily sometimes. The kids fixed my computer and I got lost in Trents photo blog. Wow!! Amazing photos.

I was looking at the photo of Bruce Wisan and his office. My gut told me that this guy is the one that is going to make things right. And my gut is still telling me so. Thumbs up Bruce Wisan and to Judge Lindberg for choosing him.

Now... I think some of the property that they are talking about has something to do with Wendall Nielson and I would think also some of the property that ended up missing overnight. Remember they took a pole barn down in the night? One day it was there and the next it was gone.

They also had moved some of that property over into Nevada.

The UEP trust was set up supposedly for the sake of the Church/business and ALL the people living there. Rulon was a money hungry/power gotta be in control type guy. Warren learned from him.

Anyone living there signed these papers in agreement with Rulon/Warren. When you sign a deal with the devil there are prices to pay.

It happens everyday to a lot of people. Bad decisions+ lose monies= Better luck next time and be cautious.

I really can't see how any individual could own the property outright because it was to be used as a whole.
In other words, imo Harker doesn't own that property. UEP does.

If it was ran as a business than they must have EIN numbers/ must have paid wages/ must have paid taxes/ must have paid employment taxes and the whole works. Did they?

Bruce Wisan and Judge Lindberg are trying to do what is right for the whole community. Not just a selected few.

If the lawsuits pending take the rest of the monies after lawyer fees and other bills then they should get what is left.

I think this part of the story will go on for a long time. Those dang spidey webs have been just a spinning since get go with this group.

Rod Parker facing Bruce Wisan in court? My money is with Bruce Wisan. jmo

[walton]

Originally posted by grammybear


If I remember correctly the authorities in Texas do pick up WJ and take him into custody in Texas for the September hearing. I think Texas will do just like AZ has done and house him and when they are done he will go back to AZ. Maybe they will keep him right where he is and his attorney will speak on his behalf. I would hope that security is really tight, because if the FLDS want him out bad enough they may try to break him out. Maybe this group thinks he is another Joseph Smith and think they can take him out of jail and put him in hiding again. Nothing surprises me anymore with this group. For a group that wants its life to be private they sure have doing things to bring the spotlight right on themsleves.

jmoo [/*]

Grammy wouldn't that be great if they did bring Warren to Texas? I for one really hope that they do.

Would Utah have to pay Arizona and Texas for housing Warren?

Where has Gary Engles been? What has changed for him since Warrens arrest? Have any of the families from Texas moved back? Are there any more leaving?

[LisaM22]

found this on youtube, christian cults can be very ugly and the brain washing seems to effect even some of the brightest of our children

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=yuyWq-AWlw4&feature=related

[walton]

Originally posted by LisaM22
found this on youtube, christian cults can be very ugly and the brain washing seems to effect even some of the brightest of our children

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=yuyWq-AWlw4&feature=related [/*]

This is really messed up!! What can anyone do? For now the members are 18 and over.

I wonder what will happen when the whipping isn't enough. :mad:

[walton]

Willie E. Jessop- Who is he? Why has Willie E. taken such an active role since the Raid?

If Warrens "confession" was to be taken serious where was Willie prior to the raid? Where was his voice? Where was Willies name on the visitors list at the jails?

If Willie E. Jessop is actually Willie Timpson son of Alma Timpson do you think that Willie will try to merge the two groups? The FLDS and the Centennial Park Group?

If you look at some of the pictures that Trent (from the Trib) and some of the pictures from Deseret News you will see the pictures of books of sermons by LeRoy Johnson.

Check this out: http://www.thespectrum.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080705/LIFESTYLE/807050318

I wonder where Parker would fit in?

[juliekan]

Nothing new...:seeya: all, thanks for stopping by this weekend. Hope everyone had a nice day off.

[juliekan]

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700255627,00.html

Utah banking on FLDS Evidence

"We're certainly interested, and we will follow up on that stuff," Utah AG Mark Shurtleff said..."If we're not allowed to keep that evidence or use it in criminal prosecutions, then we're back to square one."

IMO, that is true to a certain extent, but ever heard of trying to "unring a bell" or "put the cat back in the bag"?

[walton]

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635186759,00.html

Harker and other partners filed a quit claim deed and later transferred their stock to the FLDS Church's Corporation of the Presiding Bishop, the lawsuit states. In 2005, the courts took control of the UEP Trust amid allegations that FLDS leaders mismanaged it. Wisan bought the farm at sheriff's auction is now trying to sell it to members of the Harker family who are not FLDS members to raise money for the cash-strapped trust.

[walton]

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635186759,00.html

This link provides a map of the area in question.

A giant green patch stands out from the surrounding Nevada desert. And the greenery may be an important source of revenue for the church led by fugitive polygamist Warren Jeffs.

Over the past two years, families linked to Jeffs have quietly begun operating a large hay farm in a remote valley 30 miles north of Pioche, Nev. Investigators are trying to figure out if farm equipment, and even buildings, have been illegally moved there from the Utah-Arizona border.

A former insider says he believes the Nevada operation, known as Atlanta Farms, was launched with the approval and direction of Jeffs. "It's all his doing," said Sterling Harker.


Has there been any other activity in this area in the last couple of weeks?
If so.... wow!!

[walton]

http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_fpl61x

Just a little info about Harker farms.

[juliekan]

Originally posted by walton
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635186759,00.html

Harker and other partners filed a quit claim deed and later transferred their stock to the FLDS Church's Corporation of the Presiding Bishop, the lawsuit states. In 2005, the courts took control of the UEP Trust amid allegations that FLDS leaders mismanaged it. Wisan bought the farm at sheriff's auction is now trying to sell it to members of the Harker family who are not FLDS members to raise money for the cash-strapped trust. [/*]

Lotty posted something about this on the other thread a few days ago. IIRC, this farm employs 8 people and made around $2,500,000 last year.

[lotty]

Originally posted by juliekan
http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700255627,00.html

Utah banking on FLDS Evidence

"We're certainly interested, and we will follow up on that stuff," Utah AG Mark Shurtleff said..."If we're not allowed to keep that evidence or use it in criminal prosecutions, then we're back to square one."

IMO, that is true to a certain extent, but ever heard of trying to "unring a bell" or "put the cat back in the bag"? [/*]

From the above link:
A judge in San Angelo has scheduled an Oct. 1 hearing on the matter. Lawyers for the church claim the search was illegal, having been based on a hoax phone call that launched the raid, and what was seized may fall under priest-penitent privilege.


Talk about a slippery slope...priest-penitent privilege, without being a registered church in Texas? JMO:no:

[juliekan]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by lotty


From the above link:
A judge in San Angelo has scheduled an Oct. 1 hearing on the matter. Lawyers for the church claim the search was illegal, having been based on a hoax phone call that launched the raid, and what was seized may fall under priest-penitent privilege.


Talk about a slippery slope...priest-penitent privilege, without being a registered church in Texas? JMO:no: [/*][/QUOTE


oooh, thanks Lotty, that wasn't in there when it was first posted!

http://www.menstuff.org/issues/byissue/mandatoryreporting.html

In Texas, ANY PERSON suspecting child abuse or neglect is a mandated reporter. This applies without exception to attorneys, clergy, medical or mental health practitioners, social workers, etc.

There is NO clergy-penitent privilege. But I guess they are going to challenge it anyway. :rolleyes:

[juliekan]

Unfortunantly, looks like Utah and Arizona do have clergy-penitent priviledge.

[lotty]

Originally posted by juliekan
[QUOTE]Originally posted by lotty


From the above link:
A judge in San Angelo has scheduled an Oct. 1 hearing on the matter. Lawyers for the church claim the search was illegal, having been based on a hoax phone call that launched the raid, and what was seized may fall under priest-penitent privilege.


Talk about a slippery slope...priest-penitent privilege, without being a registered church in Texas? JMO:no: [/*][/QUOTE


oooh, thanks Lotty, that wasn't in there when it was first posted!

http://www.menstuff.org/issues/byissue/mandatoryreporting.html

In Texas, ANY PERSON suspecting child abuse or neglect is a mandated reporter. This applies without exception to attorneys, clergy, medical or mental health practitioners, social workers, etc.

There is NO clergy-penitent privilege. But I guess they are going to challenge it anyway. :rolleyes: [/*]Wow!! Thanks! I just can't believe they are going to challenge it. I know it is important to their case to challenge it, but please...I'm glad there are no exceptions. JMO

[lotty]

Thanks for the link Julie
http://www.menstuff.org/issues/byissue/mandatoryreporting.html


IMO, I'm not exactly sure what I just read, I'm going to have to read it again.:confused:

[juliekan]

Originally posted by lotty
Thanks for the link Julie
http://www.menstuff.org/issues/byissue/mandatoryreporting.html


IMO, I'm not exactly sure what I just read, I'm going to have to read it again.:confused: [/*]

there are official sites that say the same thing, but this one is easier to read :)

[lotty]

Originally posted by juliekan


there are official sites that say the same thing, but this one is easier to read :) [/*]

I was reading Texas, then Arizona, then Utah...then I threw in New Mex. (curiosity.) Then I got completely confused on who could do what where. I'll get it straight...maybehammer !

[juliekan]

Originally posted by juliekan
Unfortunantly, looks like Utah and Arizona do have clergy-penitent priviledge. [/*]

My posts are are related to child abuse, only, if this helps :shrug:

[juliekan]

this site has a chart if you scroll down that makes it easier to figure out.

http://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwide/laws_policies/statutes/clergymandated.cfm

[lotty]

Originally posted by juliekan
this site has a chart if you scroll down that makes it easier to figure out.

http://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwide/laws_policies/statutes/clergymandated.cfm [/*]
:) That helped a lot! Thank you very much! Julie you are a ton of help...where would I be without helpful people?:punch: I need all of the help I can get. Thanks the chart clears up a lot.

[juliekan]

:patriot: i get it right about once a year.......

[lotty]

Originally posted by juliekan
:patriot: i get it right about once a year....... [/*]
It was perfect...now that I've had some sleep, it makes sense.

[lotty]

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700255907,00.html
FLDS teen seeking a new lawyer
By Ben Winslow
Deseret News
Published: Wednesday, Sept. 3, 2008 12:22 a.m. MDT
SAN ANGELO, Texas — A hearing about who should represent two children caught up in the custody battle involving the Fundamentalist LDS Church returns to court today.

[walton]

Check out the comments made after this story.

MIB is Jay Beswick.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/May/14/polygamous-sect-buying-land-in-2-colo-counties/

[lotty]

Originally posted by walton
Check out the comments made after this story.

MIB is Jay Beswick.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/May/14/polygamous-sect-buying-land-in-2-colo-counties/ [/*]
I think JB is a good guy, I like the way he called the FLDS men out...no response from them. I've listened to a lot of his stuff on youtube. JMO

[juliekan]

Originally posted by lotty
http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700255907,00.html
FLDS teen seeking a new lawyer
By Ben Winslow
Deseret News
Published: Wednesday, Sept. 3, 2008 12:22 a.m. MDT
SAN ANGELO, Texas — A hearing about who should represent two children caught up in the custody battle involving the Fundamentalist LDS Church returns to court today. [/*]

I wonder what happened today? I can't find an update anywhere :confused:

[juliekan]

Originally posted by walton
Check out the comments made after this story.

MIB is Jay Beswick.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/May/14/polygamous-sect-buying-land-in-2-colo-counties/ [/*]

I googled JB, wow has he spent years chasing this stuff down!!

[walton]

Originally posted by juliekan


I wonder what happened today? I can't find an update anywhere :confused: [/*]

I haven't seen anything anywhere.

[lotty]

Originally posted by walton


I haven't seen anything anywhere. [/*]
This was up this morning, continued today. Sounds like things were getting pretty ugly yesterday. JMO

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700256166,00.html
Texas attorneys battle over who should represent 17-year-old FLDS member
Unresolved issue: Do parents or court have the final say?

By Ben Winslow
Deseret News
Published: Thursday, Sept. 4, 2008 12:43 a.m. MDT

SAN ANGELO, Texas — A hearing over who should represent a 17-year-old member of the Fundamentalist LDS Church will resume here today.

[lotty]

http://gosanangelo.com/news/2008/sep/04/hearing-goes-on-today-on-sect-girls-attorney/
Hearing goes on today on sect girl's attorney
By Paul A. Anthony (Contact)
Thursday, September 4, 2008

The faces were more telling than the words.

Groups of haggard attorneys stumbling down the steps of the Tom Green County Courthouse testified Wednesday just as accurately as any witness to what had been another long day of events in the continuing saga surrounding the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

[Roux]

Originally posted by lotty

This was up this morning, continued today. Sounds like things were getting pretty ugly yesterday. JMO

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700256166,00.html
Texas attorneys battle over who should represent 17-year-old FLDS member
Unresolved issue: Do parents or court have the final say?

By Ben Winslow
Deseret News
Published: Thursday, Sept. 4, 2008 12:43 a.m. MDT

SAN ANGELO, Texas — A hearing over who should represent a 17-year-old member of the Fundamentalist LDS Church will resume here today. [/*]

Judge Walther said the question is whether the parents have a right to select the attorney or it's the court's decision. I thought the lawyers for the FLDS children were supposed to look out for the children's best interests; otherwise, why even bother for the children to have an attorney.

Does Annette have a job? How is she paying for Futrell?

I sure wish we knew what was going on behind those closed doors!

[juliekan]

Originally posted by lotty
http://gosanangelo.com/news/2008/sep/04/hearing-goes-on-today-on-sect-girls-attorney/
Hearing goes on today on sect girl's attorney
By Paul A. Anthony (Contact)
Thursday, September 4, 2008

The faces were more telling than the words.

Groups of haggard attorneys stumbling down the steps of the Tom Green County Courthouse testified Wednesday just as accurately as any witness to what had been another long day of events in the continuing saga surrounding the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. [/*]

:seeya: thanks lotty

Only 2 hours of the 7 hours was public testimony, the rest behind doors.....that's crazy! I think Walther should just appoint another lawyer to take Malonis's place. The family should absolutely not get to pick their own lawyer in a CPS case.

[juliekan]

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/sep/04/breaking-news-sides-reach-discovery-agreement-in/

Sides Reach Discovery Agreement

The agreement affects 13 mothers in the case represented by Texas Rio Grande Legal Aid and sets up deadlines for CPS to respond to requests for documents and other evidence pertaining to the women who remain under investigation.

Help :confused: I don't understand what's going on in this article, have read it 3 times.

[lotty]

Originally posted by juliekan
http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/sep/04/breaking-news-sides-reach-discovery-agreement-in/

Sides Reach Discovery Agreement

The agreement affects 13 mothers in the case represented by Texas Rio Grande Legal Aid and sets up deadlines for CPS to respond to requests for documents and other evidence pertaining to the women who remain under investigation.

Help :confused: I don't understand what's going on in this article, have read it 3 times. [/*]
I'm not sure exactly what this article is saying either. :shrug:

[juliekan]

Originally posted by lotty

I'm not sure exactly what this article is saying either. :shrug: [/*]

where's our resident expert, Walton? Heeeelp!! hammer

gotta run out for DD's VB tourney, will try to look at other sites later if Walton is MIA :)

[PerryPeabody]

Originally posted by juliekan


where's our resident expert, Walton? Heeeelp!! hammer

gotta run out for DD's VB tourney, will try to look at other sites later if Walton is MIA :) [/*]
I'm not Walton but I'll try to help.
In July, Judge Walther "stayed" (put a temporary stop on) all discovery--so that meant that the attorneys for the parents who still had to litigate with CPS if they wanted their children (and wanted them without restriction) could not get the information that CPS "had" that CPS was using and had already used to convince the court to keep restrictions on the kids. It made the playing field uneven; CPS supposedly had "information" upon which the judge based her decision to keep restrictions on these children and the parents did not have access to that information.
The agreement reached would give the parents' attorneys a way to get the information so that they could prepare for litigation.
Hope that helps.

[lotty]

Originally posted by PerryPeabody

I'm not Walton but I'll try to help.
In July, Judge Walther "stayed" (put a temporary stop on) all discovery--so that meant that the attorneys for the parents who still had to litigate with CPS if they wanted their children (and wanted them without restriction) could not get the information that CPS "had" that CPS was using and had already used to convince the court to keep restrictions on the kids. It made the playing field uneven; CPS supposedly had "information" upon which the judge based her decision to keep restrictions on these children and the parents did not have access to that information.
The agreement reached would give the parents' attorneys a way to get the information so that they could prepare for litigation.
Hope that helps. [/*]
Hi PerryPeabody!
Thanks, that helps a lot. What did the judge mean by sanctions in that article?

[lotty]

Originally posted by Roux


Judge Walther said the question is whether the parents have a right to select the attorney or it's the court's decision. I thought the lawyers for the FLDS children were supposed to look out for the children's best interests; otherwise, why even bother for the children to have an attorney.

Does Annette have a job? How is she paying for Futrell?

I sure wish we knew what was going on behind those closed doors! [/*]

I don't know the answers, but, oh...to be a fly on the wall! That would be something.

[PerryPeabody]

Originally posted by lotty

Hi PerryPeabody!
Thanks, that helps a lot. What did the judge mean by sanctions in that article? [/*]
Normally, if one side is going to make a motion to a judge (in this case to halt discovery), the other side has to be notified and receive the pleadings that say "Judge, please stay discovery for x, y and z." CPS, for some reason inexplicable to me, didn't do that. The rules are clear about notification--so I don't know why the judge didn't sanction CPS (with a fine) or even chastise them.
The quote from the newspaper:
"I don't know how I invoke sanctions for that" in advance, Walther said. "They know the rules. They should follow the rules."
doesn't make sense to me. The judge can (but did not) assess sanctions for past infractions of the rules AND also can (but did not) say that each time something like that happens again the sanction will be "x".

[lotty]

Originally posted by PerryPeabody

Normally, if one side is going to make a motion to a judge (in this case to halt discovery), the other side has to be notified and receive the pleadings that say "Judge, please stay discovery for x, y and z." CPS, for some reason inexplicable to me, didn't do that. The rules are clear about notification--so I don't know why the judge didn't sanction CPS (with a fine) or even chastise them.
The quote from the newspaper:

doesn't make sense to me. The judge can (but did not) assess sanctions for past infractions of the rules AND also can (but did not) say that each time something like that happens again the sanction will be "x". [/*]

Oh, ok I understand, what you are saying...
It was exactly this quote that was throwing me for a loop.

quote:
__________________________________________________ __
"I don't know how I invoke sanctions for that" in advance, Walther said. "They know the rules. They should follow the rules."
__________________________________________________ __
Thank you!

[juliekan]

Originally posted by PerryPeabody

I'm not Walton but I'll try to help.
In July, Judge Walther "stayed" (put a temporary stop on) all discovery--so that meant that the attorneys for the parents who still had to litigate with CPS if they wanted their children (and wanted them without restriction) could not get the information that CPS "had" that CPS was using and had already used to convince the court to keep restrictions on the kids. It made the playing field uneven; CPS supposedly had "information" upon which the judge based her decision to keep restrictions on these children and the parents did not have access to that information.
The agreement reached would give the parents' attorneys a way to get the information so that they could prepare for litigation.
Hope that helps. [/*]

Welcome Mr. Peabody! Always need new blood on these threads! Thanks for explaining the legal side of this issue since I couldn't figure it out. :punch:
I want to welcome you properly, so check out this site that has a childhood hero of mine. :)

http://www.tvacres.com/dogs_cartoons_peabody.htm

wouldn't life be interesting with a WABAC (way-back) machine?

[lotty]

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700256467,00.html

FLDS teen's lawyer stays, judge says
By Ben Winslow
Deseret News
Published: Friday, Sept. 5, 2008 12:20 a.m. MDT

SAN ANGELO, Texas — It got ugly.

[juliekan]

http://ronlawhouston.blogspot.com/

Natalie Malonis Pros and Cons

[Roux]

Originally posted by juliekan
http://ronlawhouston.blogspot.com/

Natalie Malonis Pros and Cons [/*]

Thanks for that juliekan. Very interesting comments also, and some of them told ron exactly what I would have said. Malonis may not have done everything exactly right but at least she was trying to protect her client. A client who told her to shut her mouth! I was flabbergasted at that very disrespectful and sassy remark.

One thing that I had wondered about was Futrell representing Theresa in possible future criminal charges. If the articles were referring to Theresa and not Annette, what possible criminal charges could this 15 yr old girl face? Then I read one of the comments which mentioned her being charged with bigamy. Personally, I don't see that as any possibility at all.

[walton]

Hi everyone :seeya:

Just popped in to say hi and that I am reading When Men Become Gods.

It is good!! If you haven't read it ... you should.

I'll stop back when I am done.

[walton]

Wow!!

Stephen Singular did an awesome job!!

:rose: < That is for his wife Joyce who encouraged him to look into this story.

You guys he wrote about things that I thought but until I read his book it had never been confirmed.

I could not/would not put this book down.

Details. Lots of details. Not so many that it made the book boring but made the book interesting.

He captured the personalities behind the names of some of the people we have been reading about.

I don't want to give anything away. But I do really encourage anyone following this story to buy this book. If anyone has read this book pm me. I wanna talk.

Again a very good book.

Now.... will there be a second book ?

:D

[walton]

Heads up. Check out the notice on top of the page issued by Keyo.

Who is Keyo?

[walton]

Originally posted by GollyGeeWhiz
Hiya Walton :seeya:

I still need to finish Carolyn's book, but I'll definitely order the Singular one now, after your recommendation. It sounds very interesting -- I expected it would be just based on the synopsis I read.

'Keyo' probably works for TruTV, along with CW. That's my guess. Probably a tech. I take the notice to mean that there will be intermittent times during which we can't get onto the board next week. There were a few hours earlier this week when that also occurred -- don't know if anyone on this thread noticed.

Hope everyone is enjoying their weekend. :) [/*]

Let me know when your done reading the book. I think I am gonna burst. :eek: j/k but boy do I wanna talk about what I read.

[walton]

Private messages work a little like email, but are limited to registered members of this board. You may be able to include vB Code, smilies and images in private messages that you send.

You may send a private message to a member of this board by clicking the 'Send A Private Message' link in the private messaging section of your user control panel, or by clicking the button in a member's posts.

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Yup, it works. This is not a trick. Go ahead pm me.

Walton
% pm
Insession Message Board

Pm button located at the bottom of post.

:)

[lotty]

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700256964,00.html
Warrants could lead to more FLDS charges
Grand jury will weigh evidence as church seeks their dismissal
Copyright 2008 Deseret News
By Ben Winslow
Deseret News
Published: Sunday, Sept. 7, 2008 12:19 a.m. MDT
...
"In Arizona, Jeffs is facing sexual misconduct charges, accusing him of performing similar marriages. Texas prosecutors have said they will seek to extradite him here to face charges."...

[LLaFren]

This topic is very quiet lately, I check in every day, but don't always post. I looked at the Caylee Anthony thread, but it's to heartbreaking to stay there, I did see a few old "friends" hanging out there.

Talk to you soon...

[walton]

http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy636.html

A dairy and alfalfa farm operated by members of a polygamous sect will be seized to satisfy an $8.8 million judgment against Warren S. Jeffs and the FLDS church.

Harker Farms Inc., in Beryl, has until May 25 to either comply with or object to the seizure sought by Bruce R. Wisan, a court-appointed fiduciary overseeing the United Effort Plan Trust. Harker & Sons, the entity that operates the farm, faces the same deadline.

The property to be seized includes land, cash and equipment. These assets will be used to pay the judgment and benefit the trust, which could keep the farm or sell it.

The Harkers were served with a writ of garnishment on Friday. Nevada Attorney Greg Miles, who represents them, said they would comply with the order.


1. Parley Harker bought the farm located in Beryl in 1950 with the aide of those in the Church.
2. In 1977 Parley Harker and Rod Parker drew up papers and Harkers and Sons was turned over to the Church.
3.1998 Parley died.
4. 2004 Some of Parleys sons and a grandson re-signed those papers.

Though it was farmed by Parkers it was and is essentially owned by UEP.

The Harker farm is the also known as the farm in the Berry Knoll area.

[walton]

Now here is Pliggy's thoughts on the whole UEP attack.

http://fldsview.blogspot.com/2008/06/uep-attack.html

Pliggy is supposedly Al Holm. Brother of Fawn Holm.

I had asked Pliggy about the keys on Texasbluesmans site. No response to first question.

I had asked him again thinking he didn't see my question.

Pliggys response was to pretend he didn't know what I was talking about.

I also asked Pliggy about Patricia Keate. Again Pliggy was evasive. But he did say that she was in one of the videos on his web site.

[walton]

http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy379.html

Bruce Wisan was appointed by the court to manage the trust. Now circumstances have forced him to deal with the same so-called shell companies. He needs cash himself to operate the trust so he negotiated a 2 million dollar deal to sell 436 acres.

But former Jeffs lawyer Rod Parker gets a piece of the deal. Jeff's loyalists insisted on a $425,000 payment to Parker's law firm, which they said the trust owed in unpaid legal fees.

Bruce Wisan: "Certainly it was part of the deal and it was non-negotiable and I believe that Warren Jeffs was behind that." Q: "But you've said you think the fees are probably legitimate?" A: "Oh I think the fees were legitimate."

The implied threat was, accept the package deal or Jeffs' people could tie up trust properties for years in expensive legal battles.

Bruce Wisan: "We did not have any other offers that were comparable that would have benefited the trust in the way that we're benefiting today."

Marlene Mohn: "One of my clients said, 'You know, Warren Jeffs isn't here but he's still controlling everything.' And that's our fear."

Wisan believes it was the best deal possible under the circumstances, and the judge approved it. But future battles are likely. The trust is valued at close to 100 million dollars.

Attorney Rod Parker refused comment on camera, but he said he the fact that the FLDS officials insisted on paying his legal fees shows they are honorable, decent people.



That Rod Parker sure is one funny guy.

[walton]

http://farm.ewg.org/farm/persondetail.php?custnumber=009405978

So the Harker Farm is worth 10 million and they end up getting subsidies of a mere $33,994.

This isn't a large amount. But did they get more? And do farms that are worth 10 mil really need subsidies?

What year did they move out to Texas?

[walton]

Originally posted by grammybear
Walton,
I have been doing some checking about the questions you asked about who would pay for Jeffs to be housed in the Texas jail when he awaits trial. I have found out that each state that lays charges against him will pay the cost for housing him. So Utah pays for while he is in Utah and the other states do the same.

Just thought I would check on this because I really did not know at the time. This was done while talking to other people. So this is jmo [/*]

Thanks Grammy.

So if Warren goes to Texas.. would he be staying at Sheriff Dorans place (jail) ?

[walton]

Originally posted by LLaFren
This topic is very quiet lately, I check in every day, but don't always post. I looked at the Caylee Anthony thread, but it's to heartbreaking to stay there, I did see a few old "friends" hanging out there.

Talk to you soon... [/*]

I've been reading, searching , reading some more and I am underway with major fall cleaning.

:)

[walton]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700257259,00.html

Raymond Merril Jessop, 36, Allan Eugene Keate, 56, Michael George Emack, 57, and Merril Leroy Jessop, 33, appeared for pre-trial hearings on sexual assault charges. Merril Leroy Jessop also had a hearing on a bigamy charge.

The men filed into the Schleicher County Memorial Building, which once a month acts as a courthouse for this tiny rural Texas county. Folding tables served as the judge's bench and the prosecution and defense tables. Lawyers, clerks, inmates and spectators sat on folding chairs set up in the one-room building.

[LLaFren]

Hi guys...checking in to let everyone know I haven't forgotten what's going on here:shrug:

I hope everyone is well!

[walton]

Well I sure don't get it. Parley bought the farm with some of the monies that other FLDS member gave. Parley signed it over to the Church. Then the boys signed the agreement as well. And Parker drew up the papers twice. :shrug:

Grammy I can't figure out exactly where the farm is located. Could you take a look at this map and explain to me where it is?

http://www.go-utah.com/Pine-Valley-Mountains-Area-Map

Carolyn Jessop talked about an incident in her book that happened in the Berry Knoll area. http://www.graftonheritage.org/historic_features.htm

Scroll down to the Grafton Cemetery.

When I stayed in Utah so many years ago, I thought that there were a bunch of Harker trucks (semi's) moving on down the roads. Some over by Brigham City and that little speed trap south of there. (yup, they got me) Peach stands from Idaho all the way to Salt Lake. Willard I think the name of the little one gas-station town.

Now those Harker trucks have been seen at the YFZ ranch prior to the raid. Why? They bringing them milk? They had their own cows. All 6.

Where they bringing them feed? Why? Kinda spendy bringing it from Utah to Texas.

Now in todays paper it said that those 6 men needed to get out and find jobs. Well what were they doing prior? Doesn't take an army of men to milk 6 cows. What were all those folks doing for money?

And what was Harkers doing there with their big trucks?

[lotty]

Walton,
IIRC Harker Farms and Berry Knoll Farm are two separate farms. Harker Farms is in Beryl, UT about 100 miles from C/C Hildale (IIRC)this would be the Harker Family Farm. Berry Knoll farm would be in AZ or right on the state line. I'd have to look at a map to be sure.

P. Harker was the person that purchased Berry Knoll Farm for UEP (IIRC) or however that worked out (I get confused.):confused:

[lotty]

[QUOTE=walton;12084366]Well I sure don't get it. Parley bought the farm with some of the monies that other FLDS member gave. Parley signed it over to the Church. Then the boys signed the agreement as well. And Parker drew up the papers twice. :shrug:

Grammy I can't figure out exactly where the farm is located. Could you take a look at this map and explain to me where it is?

http://www.go-utah.com/Pine-Valley-Mountains-Area-Map


QUOTE]
Respectfully snipped:
Your map doesn't seem to go north or west enough try this:
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=beryl+ut&ie=UTF8&ll=37.88786,-113.318481&spn=0.966764,1.757813&z=9

Beryl is the town you are looking for. Hope it helps.

[walton]

Thanks Lotty. I gotta go back and look at everything again. ughhh


I don't know why I can't seem to get this. It seems to me that both farms would then belong to the UEP. right? Parley signed his over, the kids signed it over all with the help of Rod Parker. Then with the other farm as stated in Ben Bistlines book Parley had boughten the Berry Knoll Farms with monies from ALL those in the FLDS. right?

I don't know... I gotta look again.

While the kids were here they fixed my computer. I've been going back and looking at things again and some of it even though it is dated is new to me.

Check this out: http://www.azfamily.com/sharedcontent/southwest/azfamily/features/polygamy/index3.html

There are so many good clips here and so very informative. But for sure look at the ones titled Fred Jessop, Issac Wyler and Dan Cox.

I just got done viewing the one where Mike Watkiss ran into Orson Black in Mexico after a day of searching. :eek:

[lotty]

Thanks for the link, I like Mike Watkiss.

The whole FLDS, UEP confuses me sometimes. Last names, first names (like all of the Willie Jessops.) Sometimes it is too much, it takes me a while to sort things out, and sometimes I don't get them completely sorted. Bruce Wisan must be sharp as a tack!

[walton]

:D I have finally done it. After almost 4 plus years I have never been able to post on Brookes blog.

Determination. I tell ya don't ever let anyone tell ya an old dog can't learn. I signed up for a blogger account. Started a blog. And now I can post.

Except right now I don't have anything to say. :(

But when the time is right. I Walton will be able to do it.

tis those little things in my life that just tickle me.


Hey Senora where ever you are. Thanks. :rose:

[LLaFren]

:D I have finally done it. After almost 4 plus years I have never been able to post on Brookes blog.

Determination. I tell ya don't ever let anyone tell ya an old dog can't learn. I signed up for a blogger account. Started a blog. And now I can post.

Except right now I don't have anything to say. :(

But when the time is right. I Walton will be able to do it.

tis those little things in my life that just tickle me.


Hey Senora where ever you are. Thanks. :rose:


Congrats Walton!

[Roux]

:D I have finally done it. After almost 4 plus years I have never been able to post on Brookes blog.

Determination. I tell ya don't ever let anyone tell ya an old dog can't learn. I signed up for a blogger account. Started a blog. And now I can post.

Except right now I don't have anything to say. :(

But when the time is right. I Walton will be able to do it.

tis those little things in my life that just tickle me.


Hey Senora where ever you are. Thanks. :rose:

Yay and a high five for Walton! I'm so glad that you can now really put it out there and tell it like it is on behalf of all of us. Did you read Brooke's comments the other day about the Lost Boys? She down-played it, and made it sound like just normal teen angst. Strange how she is so talented at seeming to be objective and presenting "truth" but IMO she has definite undertones of being pro-polygamy.

[walton]

Yay and a high five for Walton! I'm so glad that you can now really put it out there and tell it like it is on behalf of all of us. Did you read Brooke's comments the other day about the Lost Boys? She down-played it, and made it sound like just normal teen angst. Strange how she is so talented at seeming to be objective and presenting "truth" but IMO she has definite undertones of being pro-polygamy.

Yup I read the article. Others have said that Brooke has played favorites. But then I see the comments from some of those that think she is/has been reporting only the negative things about the FLDS.

I guess I don't see her favoring one or the other side. From what I see is both sides being reported. jmo

If she were truly favoring one side over the other we wouldn't be seeing some of the facts concerning the story.

Now.. concerning her blog and some of those that comment on her blog. :eek: rericson has me going. I've bitten my tougne so many times over the last four years but it is ericson that really has me going. I can't figure her out.

Coram Non Judice aka Texasbluesman is another site that makes me think and appreciate others views.

And that Ron guy from Rons Insanity is really quick with the comebacks. He makes me smile and makes me look for things.

I really respect Uncleduff from the Texas Polygamy site.

I don't want to blog. I just want to be able to respond. Some of those sites won't let ya if you don't have a blog. But this is home.

[walton]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700257679,00.html

The court-appointed special fiduciary for the United Effort Plan Trust is engaging in a "sociological and psychological war" with its beneficiaries, lawyers for Fundamentalist LDS Church members claim in newly filed court documents.

They note a November 2007 time entry for one of the fiduciary's attorneys about reviewing a DVD of a jailhouse conversation FLDS leader Warren Jeffs had in which he renounced being a prophet. UEP trust lawyer Jeffrey L. Shields' notation detailed a phone conversation with UEP fiduciary Bruce Wisan and a strategy session on "how to use the DVD in the sociological and psychological war with the beneficiaries of the Trust."


Looks like the light just went on for Parker and crew.

"Sociological and psychological War". Please.

For 150 years the games have been played. Parker should have been spending some of that 425 thousand on getting some advice. lol

Wissan didn't make anything up. Warren is the one that said he was NOT the Prophet. Then he recanted. Is he? or isn't he?

If he is the Prophet then he better start scrambling and say something before Willie and Rod Parker take him to the cleaners.

If he isn't the Prophet than Willie or Rod which ever the one that is next in line better start getting some stuff down on paper. Is Willie the Prophet or is Rod?

Did some checking on Merlin Jessop and Dan Johnson. Can't find anything on Johnson but M Jessop could he be the one that has Mer Farms in Nevada? Now what the heck is he doing whining about anything in Utah? He has his own place. Unless of course that is part of the UEP trust as well. :shrug:



I really like Bruce Wissan.

[Roux]

Oh my goodness, won't it be interesting if Willie gets that seat on the board of advisors. How ironic that he says Wisan has surrounded himself with "hateful, spiteful people who use misleading information." Willie is the expert on misleading information.

[walton]

yeah I know. What I don't get is how Parker and Willie are joined at the hip.

Warren said he wasn't the Prophet and then said he was the Prophet. Then they said Willie was the spokesperson for the group and then they said that Rod was the spokesperson.

Pliggy said that Warren is still the Prophet. But he won't answer me as to why Willie and Rod are doing the talking. Can't get a straight answer out of a one from what I can see.

Now look at this: http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_10430031

An FLDS family is fighting a court-appointed fiduciary's attempt to evict them from property they have occupied for three generations in a polygamous community.
Guy and Ilene Steed filed court documents in 5th District Court in St. George on Tuesday aimed at preventing Bruce R. Wisan from evicting them from their home in Hildale. Wisan oversees the United Effort Plan Trust, which holds virtually all property in the adjoining towns of Hildale and Colorado City, Ariz.
The towns are the home base of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
In June, Wisan posted notices on 57 residences that gave occupants until July 15 to sign occupancy agreements and catch-up on a $100 monthly fee. The fee, begun in January, is being used to cover various costs associated with managing the trust, Wisan says.
While some residents responded to the notices, most did not and Wisan began eviction proceedings against one family - the Steeds.


They signed the same agreement that Warren had everyone else sign.
Wissan has tried time and time again to get these people to help figure out the property lines. He asked for their help when they were doing a who's who list of who was living where.

They tore off notices that were hung in public places. They tossed notices to the floor of the Post office unopened.

They slammed their doors shut when Wyler would try to give them their notices.

Those homes are made of stick and stone. No glass bubble and as hard as it is welcome to 2008.

Instead of paying Warrens elite the 1000 per month. They should have paid Wissan the $100.00 a month and make arrangement to make it their own.

If their property is in bad shape it is their own fault. jmo

[walton]

http://mormontimes.com/MITN_newsmakers.php?id=3512

"It's a difficult book to read -- and yet you don't want to quit reading it, because . . . you want to see if something does happen to stop it, but you know it won't because you know the end from the beginning," Leonard said.

"And yet, by going through that emotional witnessing of what happened, you begin to learn what really happened and learn whatever lessons can be gleaned from it," Turley said.


And further:

That writing had its affect on the authors.

"It changed us all physically. Aged us," Walker said.

"Out of proportion to the amount of time spent," Turley said.

"There is (also) a change within as you see, as you look at this . . . wishing that these people had more patience and tolerance and forbearing and hoping that you can have that as well in your life. So I think there is an enriching aspect of this horrible tragedy," Walker said.


I really think that these guys did a good job with the book. I can't imgaine the amount of research that they did but it unfolds in the book. Leonard said it well.

"It's a difficult book to read -- and yet you don't want to quit reading it, because . . . you want to see if something does happen to stop it, but you know it won't because you know the end from the beginning," Leonard said.



:rose: << For President Hinckley and those that listened.

[walton]

http://www.ueptrust.com/


What the heck is Rod Parker thinking?

And I am not even gonna go there with Willie.


If they would have been tending business when all this was going on instead of trying to hide Warren in his Road trip running from the Feds these people wouldn't be in the situation they are today. jmo


Parker in my opinion is out of gas. Or full of it pending on how you wanna look at it.

[walton]

http://blogs.sltrib.com/plurallife/ And here we have it folks.

Scroll down to where it says You snooze, you lose.

Brooke was able to gather up some photos of the Berry Knoll Farms.


Interesting indeed.

[lotty]

http://truthwillprevail.org/
Birds Of A Feather

This is the first time I've read anything from the FLDS complaining about less than honorable business dealings committed by their own.
Generally the ones complaining of these sort of dealings are outsiders who have been duped by businessmen that are members of the FLDS. Generally those members deny anything of the sort...so my questions are:
1. When were Jethro Barlow and Richard Holm excommunicated?
2. Where did the money go? Into their own pockets, or to the prophet?
3. Why are we hearing about this now, these transactions date as far back as 1990 according to Mr. Richter's article?
:shrug: As always JMO/IMO.

[lotty]

http://truthwillprevail.org/
Birds Of A Feather

This is the first time I've read anything from the FLDS complaining about less than honorable business dealings committed by their own.
Generally the ones complaining of these sort of dealings are outsiders who have been duped by businessmen that are members of the FLDS. Generally those members deny anything of the sort...so my questions are:
1. When were Jethro Barlow and Richard Holm excommunicated?
2. Where did the money go? Into their own pockets, or to the prophet?
3. Why are we hearing about this now, these transactions date as far back as 1990 according to Mr. Richter's article?
:shrug: As always JMO/IMO.
http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy187.html
So if this article is about the same Richard Holm (knowing my luck there are probably 14 of them) then he was ex'd November 11, 2003. Hmmm...still looking.

[walton]

Thanks for the link lotty. :eek:

Holy cow!! Looks like they all should have had Bruce Wissan looking at the books long ago. They wouldn't be in this mess today. jmo

But from what I've read this kinda wheeling and dealing took place long before Wisan was but knee high to a grasshopper as they say.

If you look back to when Harley Parker took over the Berry Knoll Farms they were kinda "not so up front" with everyone then. The women were having bake sales to raise monies and the men were wheeling and dealing in big dollar operations.

No.. two wrongs don't make a right but then they should go wayyyyy back to the beginning.

Maybe all the trust monies should be turned over to the tax-payers just to end this mess.

But there are a couple of things that are troubling me... If this Mr. Richter knew about all this stuff going on.... why didn't he say something?

If he saw a thief break into his neighbors home is he the kinda guy that would tell his neighbor 10 years from now?

If he saw underage girls getting married to older men would he just sit back and watch or is he the kinda guy that has the type of morals that would make him speak up today?




The popsicle stand is about to blow I am afraid. jmo

[lotty]

Walton,
I think this all boils down to...if you are in it's ok, illegal or not. If you're out...keep your mouth shut...or look out. Frankly, if I were a member I would be looking for a way out pretty dang quick. From what I have found so far, both men were ex'd in 2003. Everything I've read on RH so far, the reason for being asked to leave had nothing to do with business deals...I take that to mean...the leadership had no problems with what he was doing, they were probably benefitting from it. I can't imagine what the real reason WJ asked him to leave was, maybe RH was getting a little too big for his britches, or maybe his contributions (tithes) weren't big enough to satisfy WJ.

Typical FLDS I think. They'll keep the secrets so long as it benefits them. Now I'm wondering how much of all the rumors we hear, that they call lies, really are lies. I'm really interested to see how far they will dig up their own past to discredit former members. It sure doesn't seem to help their image, if they were willing to keep such "scoundrels" around for so long. JMO

[walton]

This is what I got from Brookes blog under the comment section from the post called You Snooze you lose.

Berry Knoll Farm and Harker farms are 2 different properties.

Harker Farm is located in Beryl Utah.

Berry Knoll farms is located north of Hilldale and Colorado City.


As far as the good ol' boys spilling the beans. I do believe that my friend Senora would call this a diversion. Hmmm

Does make me wonder though why Willie and Rod appear to be so quiet.

Hmm But then again maybe they aren't so quiet after all.

[walton]

http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy9.html

One-man rule: Although Jeffs did not have a permanent home in either Colorado City or Hildale, he eventually became the anointed successor to longtime fundamentalist prophet Leroy S. Johnson, who died in 1986. But this triggered a bitter fight over Jeffs' insistence upon ``one-man rule'' over the church. Several prominent members wanted power to reside with a seven-man priesthood council, which Jeffs' loyalists derided as a ``seven-headed monster.''

Jeffs and his supporters promptly sent eviction notices to dissidents living on church land. His power became even more apparent when the FLDS Church formally incorporated in 1991. Only his name appears on documents, as agent, president and sole trustee.

And.............

Jeffs was ousted as president of Federated Security Insurance Co. in 1958 after the board of directors discovered he had solicited proxies in his own name in a failed attempt to fire all the directors. At the time, the Salt Lake City-based company had $41 million of insurance policies in force.

According to Hodson, Jeffs' religion ultimately forced him to withdraw from the boards of several companies. Some of his partners have reportedly been squeamish about public association with a known polygamist.

Jeffs retired from his accounting business in 1983, turning it over to his son Leroy, a CPA. Leroy, 45, is an officer in four other businesses in Salt Lake County and an electrical company and retail store in Hildale.




Have to wonder where old Donald Richter was when this was going on. jmo

[walton]

http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy493.html

Also imprisoned in April were Mica S. Barlow, a Colorado City police officer, and James R. Allred, a postal clerk. Both men surrendered to authorities April 6 after a federal judge issued warrants for their arrest for contempt because they disregarded subpoenas.

More recently -- July 14 -- Samuel K. Allred and Leroy B. Timpson, two men with connections to the FLDS church and businesses, were booked into the Florence prison, authorities confirmed.

Samuel K. Allred works for Aspen Management Investment and R&W Excavating, companies owned by high-ranking church official Willie Jessop, a former trustee for the United Effort Plan Trust, which holds the collective property of church members, Holm said.


Judge Lindberg made the right choice in picking Bruce Wisan to unravel 50 + years of tangled webs.

[walton]

Walton I think essentially the FLDS are fighting anything that is normal society and not their community. Also it seems to methat this group is doing everything backassward. Why they would agree to 1000 a month instead of 100 tells me these people are not thinking they are just doing what their leaders tell them to do.

But at what point do they start taking responsibility for themselves?

Warren is jail.

When does the excuse "Warren told me so" stop?

[walton]

I was digging around for something and got lost again. I found this article that I don't believe I've read before.

http://www.eldoradosuccess.com/YFZ%20Pages/YFZ102804.html

I have never written a story. I have never worked for a news outlet. I am just one of those little town type people that likes to read.

I can't imagine what it must be like to be a reporter. I can't imagine what it must be like to be a writer for such an outlet.

But I like so many others appreciate those that do.

If it is being talked about in the local coffee shops it might be news.

If it is being talked about in the local barber shop it might be news.

If it is talked about at the local grain elevators it might be news.

If it is talked about at the local hair salons it might be news.

If it is talked about in ALL these places it is the news.

When other news outlets want to snag the story it is the news.




Where would Big News outlets get all their stories if the "little guy" didn't talk about it or write about it?







Thank goodness for Freedom of the Press.

Thank goodness for small town newspapers that aren't afraid to print what is going on in their communities.

:patriot:

[lotty]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080916.BCPOLYGAMY16/TPStory/National
Canadian seized in Texas set to be free
Judge to end supervision of teen, now 18, one of 400 young people removed from religious sect's compound

[walton]

Thanks for the link lotty.

One of the things that I never understood about this girl, is that she came from the sect up in Canada. Was it Winston Blackmore group?

Or does Warren have a group up there?

[lotty]

Thanks for the link lotty.

One of the things that I never understood about this girl, is that she came from the sect up in Canada. Was it Winston Blackmore group?

Or does Warren have a group up there?

Warren has a group there. That is why Wisan has sued the FLDS school in Bountiful, they won't allow the children from Blackmore's group to go to school there. So Winston built his own little school.

IIRC it is a Palmer or Oler that is running things for WJ in Bountiful, since Blackmore was ex'd. The way it reads is Blackmore's group has been ostracized. I'll have to look up who is running things (FLDS) for sure. JMO

[lotty]

About the school in Bountiful...
http://www.religionnewsblog.com/21946/bountiful-flds-school

About the raid in Texas...
http://timeinmoments.wordpress.com/2008/04/22/british-columbias-bountiful-community-is-watching-texas-flds-case-closely-update/

I guess it's an Oler running things for the FLDS in Bountiful, WB has already disavowed WJ as prophet. So you have two groups in the same community, one FLDS the other Blackmore's group. JMO

Maybe this will clear it up...
http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy522.html

[walton]

Thanks lotty.

http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy279.html

Bonners Ferry Mayor Darrell Kerby thought he would be reading an adventure story when he was given a copy of the John Krakauer book, "Under the Banner of Heaven." He'd read his previous book, "Into Thin Air," which chronicled the reporters ordeal as the only survivor of a trip up Mt. Everest, and expected "Under the Banner of Heaven" to be along the same lines.

When he began reading the expose of the FLDS, however, he immediately became concerned, and he began learning all he could about the cult.

"Since being made aware of the possibility of Boundary County becoming a major locale for polygamy, I have interviewed and talked to as many people as I've been able to reach to see what I can learn about this," Kerby said. "I believe it's important to determine as many facts as possible as to what is actually occurring. Are they practicing polygamy? If so, why aren't we prosecuting? What of the reports of underage girls being trafficked between these communities? If that's happening, what can we do to stop it? Are FLDS members moving north? If so, how many? These are just some of the questions we have to answer. It's a great concern."

He said that as he began talking to people in the community, he was told that there are polygamists already living in Boundary County, and a check of the assessor roll shows that Winston Blackmore owns two parcels near Porthill. On one is a large cabin, and it's suspected that this is but one home where his purported several wives live.


I googled.

Libby Montana is only 58 miles from Bonners Ferry.
Porthill Idaho is 1 hour and 25 minutes.

:eek:

[walton]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700259489,00.html

Meanwhile in Utah, lawyers for a group of ex-FLDS members said they do not object to FLDS member and spokesman Willie Jessop serving on an advisory board for the court-controlled UEP Trust — provided he is thoroughly vetted before being appointed.

The UEP Trust, which is the real-estate holdings arm of the FLDS Church, has an opening on its advisory board for an FLDS representative. In a recent letter to the judge overseeing the trust, Jessop accepted an invitation and recommended another member join him.

"The person fulfilling this position is to provide non-binding input regarding the just wants and needs of Trust Participants in light of the religious principles of the FLDS Church," attorney Greg Hoole wrote in papers filed in Salt Lake City's 3rd District Court last week. "No person can be considered for this position until they are first designated in writing by the FLDS Church to fulfill this position."

:) Now... who is going to sign the papers saying that Willie is designated?

The Prophet? Who is the Prophet? The spokesperson? Who is the spokesperson? Who designated the spokesperson? The other spokesperson? Who designated him? The on and off lawyer?

lol

Has anything been mentioned about Merril Jessop?

Wendall Nielson?

Wayman?

Allreds?


Wonder whose picture is hanging on the wall next to Warrens, is it Wendall, Willie or is it Rod Parker?




:D

[walton]

http://www.sltrib.com/News/ci_10491303

Child welfare officials plan to ask a Texas judge to keep a 14-year-old FLDS girl in custody because her parents continue to be uncooperative.
Merril Jessop, the girl's father and bishop of the Yearning For Zion Ranch in Eldorado, remains in hiding and Barbara Jessop, her mother, has circumvented visitation rules on several occasions, a newly filed court document says.
It says that Barbara Jessop asked the state to let the girl's younger brother or friends be allowed to join her in custody. She also asked that another daughter be allowed to trade places with the 14-year-old.

I wonder if the "daughter" she wants to trade isn't actually Carolyns daughter.

IMO the rest of the kids should be taken away.

[Roux]

Maybe Ike has rattled my brain, I don't understand Barbara wanting to swap another child for the girl in custody. What sense does that make? Is there some ulterior motive?

[walton]

It doesn't make any sense.

If anything at all it shows that Barbara needs to be monitored and supervised closely. Very closely. jmo

[walton]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700260181,00.html

Texas authorities are fighting a challenge to a pair of search warrants served during the raid on the Fundamentalist LDS Church's YFZ Ranch.

In a 51-page court filing, the Texas Attorney General's Office lays out a case for "probable cause" that a crime had occurred on the Utah-based polygamous church's sprawling Eldorado property.

"Both affidavits set forth facts establishing probable cause on each element of sexual assault of a child (both warrants) and bigamy (second warrant) and properly allege a particular description of the property to be served," deputy Texas attorney General Stephen R. Lupton wrote.


I wonder if those living on the Ranch had each building marked as to who lived in which building. If so the man at the gate should have just told them. Oh... wait. He said there wasn't any Sarahs living there. Oh wait.... they found how many Sarahs living there?

shaking head icon >>>>> here

[LLaFren]

http://www.sltrib.com/News/ci_10491303

Child welfare officials plan to ask a Texas judge to keep a 14-year-old FLDS girl in custody because her parents continue to be uncooperative.
Merril Jessop, the girl's father and bishop of the Yearning For Zion Ranch in Eldorado, remains in hiding and Barbara Jessop, her mother, has circumvented visitation rules on several occasions, a newly filed court document says.
It says that Barbara Jessop asked the state to let the girl's younger brother or friends be allowed to join her in custody. She also asked that another daughter be allowed to trade places with the 14-year-old.

I wonder if the "daughter" she wants to trade isn't actually Carolyns daughter.

IMO the rest of the kids should be taken away.

IMO I agree, does Barbara think she's at a swap meet? Good Grief...

[walton]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700260835,00.html

Parker appeared alongside Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff for a discussion on "Polygamy and the Law," discussing polygamy-related prosecutions and the recent raid on the FLDS Church's YFZ Ranch. Past attempts to overturn the polygamy ban have failed, some because they involve underage marriages — which could still cloud the issue.

"One of the interests the state has in prohibiting polygamy is this ... protecting vulnerable individuals from exploitation and abuse and I'm quoting: 'The practice of polygamy in particular often coincides with crimes targeting women and children,"' Shurtleff said, quoting from a Utah Supreme Court opinion that struck down a recent challenge to overturn a bigamy conviction.

[walton]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700261040,00.html

The Fundamentalist LDS Church is backing off of a challenge to a pair of search warrants served during the raid on the YFZ Ranch.

In court papers filed here, lawyers for the Utah-based polygamous church, YFZ Ranch leader Merril Jessop and FLDS member Lyle Jeffs asked to withdraw their requests for a hearing on the search warrant challenge, calling the issue "moot."

The motion lists several reasons why they are withdrawing the challenge. Most notably, none of them have been charged with a crime.

"Accordingly, movants are not 'defendants' in any criminal proceeding," attorneys Daniel Hurley and Cynthia Orr wrote.

:confused:

Something kicked in?

Lack of money for lawyers?

Deals made?



Hmmmmm

[walton]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700260943,00.html

Fundamentalist LDS Church leader Warren Jeffs was briefly hospitalized last week for an undisclosed medical condition, sheriff's deputies confirmed.

Jeffs was taken to Kingman Regional Medical Center for a few hours on Thursday after jail medical staff recommended he be taken to the hospital. Authorities refused to release any more details.

"I cannot comment on the medical situation," Mohave County Sheriff's spokeswoman Trish Carter told the Deseret News on Monday. "Obviously, Kingman Regional determined him to be OK and he was returned to our jail."


Last week? He didn't go to Vegas? Wonder if he had any visitors while he was at the hospital?


Rod? Merril? Lyle? Patricia Keate?

[walton]

http://thehopeorg.org/GregHooleOpEdPieceforTribune.pdf


I feel like a child caught in the middle. :(

[walton]

I had no idea Jeffs went to the hospital. Could it be that Texas is making arrangements to take him to Texas on the charges against him?

It seems too coincidental to me that every time there are new charges brought forward or any of the states talk to him or try to get information from him he ends up in the hospital. I do not like the feeling I am getting about this guy. He has been used to being in control and this may be his way to stay in control.
I would also like to know who his visitors have been lately. There are to man coincidences with this guy. I also do not like the fact that the states have to pick up the bill on all of his shenanigans. It is bad enough to me that the taxpayers are going to pay for him to be in each states jails and prisons. This man did so much to control all of this group for his own fantasies and now we are seeing a big problem with these people. I really hate what he has done to these young children.
Ok no more ranting. I just hate to see him doing anything that will put him in control even if it is for a very short time.

jmoo


Rant away grammy. Check out the latest link. There is a whole lot that we don't know. I wish the games would stop. jmo

I tried to follow Brookes blog and I got so dang disgusted I only made a couple of posts. Waited 4 years to post over there and then bam. I just didn't want to be a part of it.

I know the Feds are investigating so many parts of this story and that it takes time. So many angles. But while they investigate the victims list grows. :(

[juliekan]

Hiya Roux! Great to see you! :seeya:

She probably wants to swap girls because the one in state's custody is 'special' being married to the prophet and all. :rolleyes:

:seeya: everyone, just catching up on my reading

To be blunt, the offered "swap" is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard. Let's swap the abused child in custody of the state with one that isn't???? But of course these kids are interchangeable units up for barter in the FLDS. And how does the child feel that Barbara wants to "reassign" to take M.'s place ?? Talk about throwing one of your kids under the bus....oh, Barbara already has done that by just not complying with what the state has asked her to do.
I still cannot understand what the FLDS thinks they gain by Barbara not complying.

[juliekan]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700261040,00.html

The Fundamentalist LDS Church is backing off of a challenge to a pair of search warrants served during the raid on the YFZ Ranch.

In court papers filed here, lawyers for the Utah-based polygamous church, YFZ Ranch leader Merril Jessop and FLDS member Lyle Jeffs asked to withdraw their requests for a hearing on the search warrant challenge, calling the issue "moot."

The motion lists several reasons why they are withdrawing the challenge. Most notably, none of them have been charged with a crime.

"Accordingly, movants are not 'defendants' in any criminal proceeding," attorneys Daniel Hurley and Cynthia Orr wrote.

:confused:

Something kicked in?

Lack of money for lawyers?

Deals made?



Hmmmmm

Let sleeping dogs lie? I think there is evidence they want to keep hidden as long as possible.

[juliekan]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700260943,00.html

Fundamentalist LDS Church leader Warren Jeffs was briefly hospitalized last week for an undisclosed medical condition, sheriff's deputies confirmed.

<snipped>
Last week? He didn't go to Vegas? Wonder if he had any visitors while he was at the hospital?


Rod? Merril? Lyle? Patricia Keate?

Surely LE and/or the Feds are keeping an eye on who visits WJ in jail or elsewhere. Wish I could get my hands on the visitors log...then again, no telling what name the people write down when they visit.
I saw a picture at a site that showed Warren and Naomi when they were first apprehended, Warren in shorts and Naomi in jeans. Whatever happened to Naomi? Was she charged with anything like aiding and abetting? I bet she is at least finally recovering from the writer's cramp she got from transcribing every squirrly thing that came out of WJs mouth. :D

[juliekan]

http://thehopeorg.org/GregHooleOpEdPieceforTribune.pdf


I feel like a child caught in the middle. :(

Good article. Wonder who Hoole represents.......

[juliekan]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700261040,00.html

The Fundamentalist LDS Church is backing off of a challenge to a pair of search warrants served during the raid on the YFZ Ranch.

In court papers filed here, lawyers for the Utah-based polygamous church, YFZ Ranch leader Merril Jessop and FLDS member Lyle Jeffs asked to withdraw their requests for a hearing on the search warrant challenge, calling the issue "moot."

The motion lists several reasons why they are withdrawing the challenge. Most notably, none of them have been charged with a crime.

"Accordingly, movants are not 'defendants' in any criminal proceeding," attorneys Daniel Hurley and Cynthia Orr wrote.

:confused:

Something kicked in?

Lack of money for lawyers?

Deals made?



Hmmmmm

http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_10506824
FLDS fights warrants;Texas fights back (from 9/19)

"The state asks Walther to deny the FLDS claims since no charges have been filed against either Jeffs or Jessop and they thus have no standing in the case. Nor does the church, which does not own the ranch, the state argues. The men also have failed to show privacy or property rights were violated because neither has proved he lives at the ranch."

The state's arguments seem to hold merit. Maybe for once the FLDS lawyers decided not to fight against a legal, logical argument(like that has ever stopped them before :rolleyes:). They haven't even proved they live at the ranch?? Why would they avoid doing that? Also, wouldn't Merrill have to show up for the Oct. 1 hearing? Maybe he doesn't want to come out of hiding.......

[juliekan]

Good article. Wonder who Hoole represents.......

Hoole represented Elissa Wall

[juliekan]

Jeffs again hospitalized after fasting
http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_10537893

The Jail has asked its attorneys to look into getting a court order to force-feed Jeffs. Also, jail has imposed a 15 minute, 3 times per day limit on the amount of time Jeffs can spend on his knees praying (he has been treated for ulcerations before.) Jeffs refuses to comply.

"We have had to have staff literally pick him up off his knees and place him on his bed and then use soft restraints on his bed to keep him so he can't get off his bed," Brown said. "Then he gets checked every 45 minutes to every hour and has to be let up to go to the bathroom or whatever and then he has to go back into restraints.":eek:

He must be weak as a kitten if he spends all day in bed and is not eating. Also crazy as a loon if all he does is lay in bed with all that crazy stuff running through his head with no one to write it down.

[juliekan]

Just another thought on Barbara Jessop not complying with CPS...Remember when Dr. Barlow had to be called to come to court to sign the papers to agree to the CPS family plans to be able to get his kids back? His wife was there, but he had to sign also. So we know Merrill isn't going to come out of his hidey-hole and sign any paperwork just so his daughter can go home and be with her family.

[lotty]

Grand jury is meeting again...
http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700261187,00.html

I have come to the understanding that, I don't understand how FLDS think. On the "child swap", Oh My Goodness, more proof that women and children are chattel. I don't get it, don't think I will ever get it, hope I never get it.JMO

[lotty]

Per Shurtleff from that article:



This is a ridiculous statement, IMO. It is hardly the presence of LE officials that creates fear in the FLDS -- it's what they are taught about any and all outsiders that creates the fear. If they weren't taught to fear and hate outsiders, and they weren't breaking the law, they'd have no reason to fear law enforcement officials or investigations.

Shurtleff gave the FLDS another excuse to cop out, IMO. He's got some nerve criticizing what the state of Texas did, while he's stood around shifting from one foot to the other, blindfold on and his hands over his ears.
ITA! GGW
He has no room to criticize Texas actions...when Utah has been a lot of inaction (unless the E.W. case is supposed to erase the past.) JMO

[juliekan]

Five more indictments
http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/sep/23/5-more-indictments-against-sect-members/

5 felony indictments against 3 people. Hopefully more info to follow

[juliekan]

Grand jury is meeting again...
http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700261187,00.html

I have come to the understanding that, I don't understand how FLDS think. On the "child swap", Oh My Goodness, more proof that women and children are chattel. I don't get it, don't think I will ever get it, hope I never get it.JMO

this article has been updated...3 indictments for sexual assault of a child, 2 for bigamy. No witnesses were called, just diaries, etc.apparently were used for evidence.

[juliekan]

Five more indictments
http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/sep/23/5-more-indictments-against-sect-members/

5 felony indictments against 3 people. Hopefully more info to follow

This article was updated this pm

"3 further indictments were issued in late August although it was not disclosed who was indicted."

WHAT! How did I miss this...are they still missing, since they do not disclose who was indicted until the subpoenas are issued? Once again, where is Merril.
Just a shot in the dark....when did we last see Willie J?

[Roux]

The longer this goes on, the more Warren Jeffs shows himself to be about as far from a man of God as it gets. imo

Where is his calm resolve? Where is his faith that he is right where God chooses that he be at this moment? Where is his humility? Is he looking for ways to do God's work behind bars?

I don't see God in Warren Jeffs. I certainly didn't see it when he was a free man, ruling his followers with his twisted philosophies. And I don't see it now. I see a fanatic who wants things his way, not God's way.

I wonder how many, if any, of the FLDS membership see the truth about Warren yet?

As much as I hate it when a poster says "Post of the day" it is true of your post GGW. Warren's actions, or lack thereof, are so telling of his true character and motives. I don't believe that the FLDS will ever see the truth, or acknowledge the error in following Warren.

Being away from the board for over a week, I have a lot of catching up to do. Wasn't there another hearing or something scheduled for this week?

[juliekan]

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/sep/24/judge-extends-restraining-order-in-flds-custody/

Judge extends restraining order against Willie J

[juliekan]

Check out Brooke's blog re: Moroni family. It has a link to their blog. Article on them going to a concert to see the band pedifile? Strange blog entries from a polygamous family. JMO.

[Roux]

Check out Brooke's blog re: Moroni family. It has a link to their blog. Article on them going to a concert to see the band pedifile? Strange blog entries from a polygamous family. JMO.

Hi juliekan. I read a couple of Moroni's entries and words (except "white trash") fail me. Why would anyone brag about going to see a band called Pedifile, and the description of the T shirt was lovely. barf Methinks he wants to be perceived as a bada$$ in his younger days.

He just spouts more of the same old defenses of polygamy, and I don't believe he is a true Mormon but that he hides behind that and uses it as an excuse to make his lifestyle seem wholesome and legit. Wonder how, in the Jessop family tree, Moroni is related to Willie.

[Roux]

Regarding Warren's fasting, it seems to me that he utilizes it as a means of control and manipulation. I think they should proceed with a court order for IV feedings. And maybe he watched the Sopranos and took a clue from Uncle Jun on playing the crazy card?
Notwithstanding that response tophound gave about why he's in jail, I still don't get it. Why shouldn't he be in prison until they are READY to go to trial. It's been months and nothing has moved forward. Does anyone know when he can be transferred to TX? Probably not until the AZ thing has been tried?
I wish the authorities would be able to serve those newly indicted so we know who they are!

[juliekan]

CPS Lawyers Dispute FLDS Representative
http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700261463,00.html

:confused:

[juliekan]

FLDS mother seeks to change attorneys
http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/sep/25/flds-mother-seeks-to-change-attorneys/

Once again, an attorney has an attorney (Shockley) and there were questions "by the state and Malonis." Malonis????? I am so :confused:

[juliekan]

[QUOTE=juliekan;12184078]FLDS mother seeks to change attorneys
http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/sep/25/flds-mother-seeks-to-change-attorneys/

Finally, we see where they are going with this. These flds are wily little creatures!
Barbara Jessop once again states she doesn't understand why her daughter was taken away. Someone please show her the TEXAS STATUTES ON MARRIAGE. The hearing on the continuance of this case is .............January 8th. :tongue:
The request for Shockley to be the attorney for Jeffs gets abruptly withdrawn at the break. Her own attorney, Edwards, was let go. Now Jeffs has no attorney.
Now Shockley wants to be co-counsel on the Jessop case with Rios.
"that means...that Shockley would represent the mother of an alleged victim and relative of an alleged perpetrator in the same crime, which is a conflict of interest."

Who is obviously more important to Jeffs? The underage girl that he married, not his own child. Barbara also "chose to remain silent" to more than 20 questions. How dumb do they think Walthers is??? At least she is hearing their lame-o arguments so no one can throw that back in her face.

:seeya: grammy, GGW, Roux, Tex...Where is Walton, our resident expert, and Lotty? Check in guys. I worry too much these days.....

Had to add a last thought...wonder if Shockley ran across any $$$$$$$$ in her decision to take on this quest? I know, I'm cynical.

[lotty]

:seeya: Hi ev1!
Julie,
I've been busy, that's all. Grammy & GGW are right.
So has anyone seen this?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/26/AR2008092600417.html?hpid=sec-religion

If the feds can use the Mann Act to arrest someone like this, why don't they use it with FLDS? I believe they were moving these girls state to state for the same reason avoid the laws in Utah, go to Texas or South Dakota...where ever. :confused:

I am so happy to see Texas-SE, Roux and Julie back. Glad to know you faired well through Ike.:)

[lotty]

This is an interesting item
http://www.truthwillprevail.org/
Paying their taxes? IIRC the pictures of YFZ are the same pre-raid green, lush and neat. Post-raid brown, unkempt. Are these differences due to BW or FLDS leaving CC/Hildale? Just had to ask.

[Roux]

This is an interesting item
http://www.truthwillprevail.org/
Paying their taxes? IIRC the pictures of YFZ are the same pre-raid green, lush and neat. Post-raid brown, unkempt. Are these differences due to BW or FLDS leaving CC/Hildale? Just had to ask.

Hi Lotty and all,
The article on the left column regarding Stephen Singular's distortion of Warren Jeff's character caught my eye. Only read a little snippet but I immediately thought of Walton -- isn't that book she read and said was so good? I'd like to get her thoughts on it. Anything that truthwillprevail denies so vehemently must be true.

[walton]

Hi everyone :seeya:

I've been just really really busy. I've been reading thru tired eyes wanting to respond but just didn't have enough time.

I wanted to bring these links a couple of weeks ago.. So here they are.

A man named Val Jessop died a week or so ago. I remember reading about him in the many articles written.

Polygamy is rarely just about consenting adults.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_/ai_n11460973

Out of the mouths of babes: "I want to stay in the (FLDS) church," said Anthony, who added he will marry and love whomever is assigned to him by church elders when that time comes. "If Mother doesn't want anything to do with our religion, then that's OK. But I worry about my sisters."

Anthony was 14 when he said that.

http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy419.html

Meanwhile, her estranged husband, Val, lived alone in an empty house on the edge of Colorado City. For reasons he won't discuss, FLDS ex-communicated him and took away his other wife. He said he missed his children most of all.

Val denied asking the police to arrest Laurene for disobeying him, and he claimed she was mentally ill and violent. He maintained he was the true victim, because he lost his children, and he questioned the authority of the man-made laws that awarded Laurene custody.

Val Jessop defended his "plural marriage." "I was born Mormon, OK?" he said. "It's in my blood, you know? I'm not going to go be something else. I'm who I am."

I can't help but wonder how Anthony feels today.

[walton]

Hi Lotty and all,
The article on the left column regarding Stephen Singular's distortion of Warren Jeff's character caught my eye. Only read a little snippet but I immediately thought of Walton -- isn't that book she read and said was so good? I'd like to get her thoughts on it. Anything that truthwillprevail denies so vehemently must be true.

Roux the Book by Stephen Singular is a must read. It is good. Imo very good. I've been waiting for someone else to read it so I can talk about some stuff in there.

I had read about them talking about Bruce Wisan. I looked at the article/pictures.

Donald Richter is wrong.

Desperate measures by desperate folks. not just my opinion but fact.

:D

[walton]

Wow -- what an awesome oped piece! Do we know if it ran, Walton?

I so agree with Mr. Hoole about the sympathetic to the FLDS slant the Tribute seems to put on stories.

If it did run anyplace I can't find it. I tried hooking up the the Deseret News to see if it was in their opinion section but I couldn't find it. But... Hoole had to have written it otherwise someone would be in trouble for saying it.

It made me feel kinda bad. I really have learned a lot thru Brookes articles. I really didn't see her leaning one way or the other. And I know Mr. Hoole is trying to help some of the victims.

That is why I feel like the middle child.



I am going to be busy for about another week or so. But I will stop in and read. Off to bed for me. You guys are awesome!!

[juliekan]

This is an interesting item
http://www.truthwillprevail.org/
Paying their taxes? IIRC the pictures of YFZ are the same pre-raid green, lush and neat. Post-raid brown, unkempt. Are these differences due to BW or FLDS leaving CC/Hildale? Just had to ask.

The pictures of Western Precision made me laugh...all it tells me is that someone fired the gardener. :biggrin:

[juliekan]

FLDS seeking CPS evidence
http://deseretnews.com/article/0,5143,700262193,00.html

Interesting that Judge Walthers has ruled to make video, audio, and photographs available...what about all the written evidence? I guess the lawyers are having to file requests for that since it says that numerous court orders have been filed providing lawyers with evidence.

[juliekan]

Hi everyone :seeya:

I've been just really really busy. I've been reading thru tired eyes wanting to respond but just didn't have enough time.

I wanted to bring these links a couple of weeks ago.. So here they are.

A man named Val Jessop died a week or so ago. I remember reading about him in the many articles written.

Polygamy is rarely just about consenting adults.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_/ai_n11460973

Out of the mouths of babes:

Anthony was 14 when he said that.

http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy419.html

Meanwhile, her estranged husband, Val, lived alone in an empty house on the edge of Colorado City. For reasons he won't discuss, FLDS ex-communicated him and took away his other wife. He said he missed his children most of all.

Val denied asking the police to arrest Laurene for disobeying him, and he claimed she was mentally ill and violent. He maintained he was the true victim, because he lost his children, and he questioned the authority of the man-made laws that awarded Laurene custody.

Val Jessop defended his "plural marriage." "I was born Mormon, OK?" he said. "It's in my blood, you know? I'm not going to go be something else. I'm who I am."

I can't help but wonder how Anthony feels today.

It would be great if people could go back and talk to these people today and get updates, but that would probably be turned down by them. I want to say I can't believe she went back and TOOK HER DAUGHTERS BACK, but being raised this way gets into these peoples souls and their conscience just can't let go of it. Since she is refusing to have a plural marriage, I wonder if her daughters get that option? Also, how do her daughters feel about going back to prairie dresses and what do they do about those offensive holes in their earlobes?

[juliekan]

This is an interesting item
http://www.truthwillprevail.org/
Paying their taxes? IIRC the pictures of YFZ are the same pre-raid green, lush and neat. Post-raid brown, unkempt. Are these differences due to BW or FLDS leaving CC/Hildale? Just had to ask.

I went back to this site since I had not checked it out in a while. Wow, talk about lying for the Lord. The only thing I liked was the handwriting by Merrianne in her letter to her mother: Palmer Method? Only old people like me will know...:)

[walton]

It would be great if people could go back and talk to these people today and get updates, but that would probably be turned down by them. I want to say I can't believe she went back and TOOK HER DAUGHTERS BACK, but being raised this way gets into these peoples souls and their conscience just can't let go of it. Since she is refusing to have a plural marriage, I wonder if her daughters get that option? Also, how do her daughters feel about going back to prairie dresses and what do they do about those offensive holes in their earlobes?

Offensive holes in the earlobes? :confused:

[juliekan]

Offensive holes in the earlobes? :confused:

they got their ears pierced :)

[juliekan]

Dorothy Allred Solomon has a blog on FLDS in Marie Claire. Here's one article from June.
http://www.marieclaire.com/hair/celebrity/blog/False-Dilemma-And-Mind-Control

[walton]

I wondered when it would told who the three were. It figures that two would be a Jeffs. Apparently the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. On the third one is this someone related to Parley Dutson, the young kid found guilty of killing his girlfriend. I would expect with more time that we will see more indictments coming down.
I think all they guys should just turn themselves in because I do believe there will be many more indicted.

jmoo

Grammy do you know who Parley Jeffs Dutson has as an attorney? I know that he had to go for an evaluation before they sentenced him I think but that was a while ago already.

[walton]

they got their ears pierced :)

Oh boy, I told you guys I was tired. :o

[walton]

News media reports that the 3 men indicit by the grand jury last week have been arrestred; http://www.myeldorado.net

Also from SLC newspaper: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700262736,00.html

The bad news is that the men arrested are not Willie the thug, Merrill the wife beater or Lyle Jeffs.

Two of the men are Jeffs, Abram Harker Jeffs, 27, and Lehi Barlow Jeffs, 29 in their early twenties as well as Keith William Dutson Jr., 23.

The good news the grand stays in sessioon till January 09.

Did you notice that they were all freed on bond?

For those living in Texas, does anyone hear a small group of "older men" singing?

Warren, Merrill, Wendall Nielson or Willie? All singing?



Do you guys think we will ever hear the whole story?

[lotty]

Hi everybody,

I went back and checked to see what I could see about Parley Dutson and I found an article dated August 22, 2008 from the Deseret News. Judge Royal Hanson ordered a 60 day evaluation at the Utah State Prison for Parley Dutson. Then there will be a hearing on October 24th to decide on his punishment.
Members of the girls family were upset that he was not already sentenced and they all hoped he got the harshest sentence. His family also said that they hoped he got the harshest sentence which would be 15 years instead of 6 or ten years. So I am thinking that he would get out in 7 years. I can well imagine that Parleys attorney is still involved in his case.
If I an not mistaken the judge ordered the evaluation because of his attorney who probably argued for extenuating circumstances. So that is what is going on right now. This is another court date I will put on my calender to keep an eye out for.
Hi Grammy,
IIRC A. Steed has a hearing on October 22, to see if there is enough evidence to go to trial. Rape charges on the E.W. case. I believe it is the 22nd. Just thought you would want to know, if you didn't have the date already.

[juliekan]

I was reading an article this morning about the three that were indicted that they were bonded out. I cannot remember the sum but it was not for a little change either. Imagine that the women have no money but all these men are able to come up with bond.

Also while I was reading about Parley Kara's family was saying that the two had been dating for a couple of years. That does not seem to be in sync with the rest of the philosophy of the FLDS. I have read over and over again that the leaders pick the spouses for the men. I have never heard of any of them dating. Does anybody have any other information on this subject that maybe I have missed?

jmoo


:seeya: grammy

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/17917/parley-jeffs-dutson

Dutson was expelled from Colorado City by order of Warren Jeffs when he was only sixteen. The boy moved to St. George, where he met the teen who became his victim.

So if the crime occured when he was 18, he could have known her for 2 years.

[juliekan]

:lol:I just have to laugh, I know just what those white prison buses look like....:patriot: Texas

[Roux]

Dorothy Allred Solomon has a blog on FLDS in Marie Claire. Here's one article from June.
http://www.marieclaire.com/hair/celebrity/blog/False-Dilemma-And-Mind-Control

I see she has a book coming out this month. I'm going to have to get a loan -- uh oh, forgot credit is frozen:biggrin: -- to cover my charges from Amazon for all the books that have been recommended. Not to mention all the time it will take me to get caught up on the reading.

It is interesting that the men have money to post bail but yet the women are getting lawyers for free, soliciting and selling items via internet. I'd still like to know where their (the ones who have relocated) day-to-day living expenses are coming from.

Thanks for the dates Lotty. And juliekan I remember well Palmer method and that remains my style of penmanship to this day.

[juliekan]

www.gosanangelo.com reporting that
"A ninth FLDS man remains at large despite being indicted on two undisclosed charges months ago."

:eek:

Merrill?

[juliekan]

http://www.childbrides.org/news_raid_YO_fashion_magazines_promote_polyg_hairs tyles.html

October issues of Vogue and W features models with FLDS hairdos.

We have a saying in Texas, known for its big hair....

"The higher the hair, the closer to God." :D

[juliekan]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700263418,00.html

FLDS Mom Seeks Sanctions

"wrongful misconduct" alleged by Naomi Johnson.

Here comes the FLDS with 400 lawsuits.

This will end up being like the whistle-blowers that had information on big corporations and got "papered" to death with legal mumbo-jumbo from lawyers that were paid to do just that.

God help us all.

[walton]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700263418,00.html

FLDS Mom Seeks Sanctions

"wrongful misconduct" alleged by Naomi Johnson.

Here comes the FLDS with 400 lawsuits.

This will end up being like the whistle-blowers that had information on big corporations and got "papered" to death with legal mumbo-jumbo from lawyers that were paid to do just that.

God help us all.

Morning Julie

This won't fly. When the cops raid a big party of underage drinkers at a party where only some of the kids are drinking but all were hauled in can those kids that weren't drinking sue? I don't think so.

I think unless the homes on the compounds were clearly marked they don't stand a chance with this lawsuit. They lived as a group. LE did what they had to and so did the CPS. Done deal imo.

[juliekan]

Morning Julie

This won't fly. When the cops raid a big party of underage drinkers at a party where only some of the kids are drinking but all were hauled in can those kids that weren't drinking sue? I don't think so.

I think unless the homes on the compounds were clearly marked they don't stand a chance with this lawsuit. They lived as a group. LE did what they had to and so did the CPS. Done deal imo.

:seeya: Mornin'

Hope, dear lord, you are correct...and you usually are

[walton]

We can only hope we hear them singing those ole Texas prison blues on that long ride to Huntsville, Texas. Yes lets hope these dudes get to sing on that white prison bus Lordy Lordy! And they will be singing a different tune when they met the folks in the cellblock showers where they will truly recieve that which they have given in the past, truly they will sing those ole Texas prison blues!:lol:

As to if we will all hear the whole story, only time will tell.;)

Oh wow!! The vision. Big white prison buses, the windows open and the song Amen being led by Wally B. (Warrens first lawyer).

Work release will be working the fields and singing Workn' the Chain Gang.

:)

I met a woman from Dallas this last week and I swear if the rest of Texas folks is anything like this woman they ought to just spread that attitude everywhere.

Straight up and no BS. And a great sense of humor.

Gotta love them Texans!!

[walton]

:seeya: Mornin'

Hope, dear lord, you are correct...and you usually are

Do you think they stand a chance? I know zip about the legal stuff but I don't know how this could get past phase one.

The houses weren't marked. I would hope that we would back those that are there doing their jobs such as LE and CPS. Their call, their judgement on accessing the situation.

Even a landlord of an apartment building can tell ya who is living in a 100 unit building. They didn't do that. They couldn't do that. They would not do that.

The LE and CPS were doing their job imo.


Has anyone heard anything from Rod Parker?

[walton]

Hi everybody,

I went back and checked to see what I could see about Parley Dutson and I found an article dated August 22, 2008 from the Deseret News. Judge Royal Hanson ordered a 60 day evaluation at the Utah State Prison for Parley Dutson. Then there will be a hearing on October 24th to decide on his punishment.
Members of the girls family were upset that he was not already sentenced and they all hoped he got the harshest sentence. His family also said that they hoped he got the harshest sentence which would be 15 years instead of 6 or ten years. So I am thinking that he would get out in 7 years. I can well imagine that Parleys attorney is still involved in his case.
If I an not mistaken the judge ordered the evaluation because of his attorney who probably argued for extenuating circumstances. So that is what is going on right now. This is another court date I will put on my calender to keep an eye out for.

Thanks Grammy. But do you know who his attorney is? I thought I had it someplace and I remember trying to look for this person via the internet. Couldn't find a link directly to the attorney.

[juliekan]

Thanks Grammy. But do you know who his attorney is? I thought I had it someplace and I remember trying to look for this person via the internet. Couldn't find a link directly to the attorney.

W, I looked the other day, but could not find who the attorney was. Am not as familiar with this case as ya'll are though

check pm...

[walton]

W, I looked the other day, but could not find who the attorney was. Am not as familiar with this case as ya'll are though

check pm...


It is a very tragic story for everyone involved. I'll try to gather the links and bring them up front later. But for now I gotta run.

[Roux]

:cuss: My thumb just slipped and I lost two paragraphs of thoughtful prose, so I will have to begin again.
Anyway, as I was saying, I don't believe Naomi's lawsuit has any merit but am afraid someone of the mindset of evalles would give it credence. The documents seized and things that happened subsequently confirm that CPS had plenty of reason to remove children. Wonder which judge would rule on it -- wouldn't Walther be a conflict?
What is atty Gibson getting at with "...to disseminate false allegations of abuse to other agencies..." Which agencies? Why? Wouldn't be wefare b/c they weren't receiving any. And of course he had to throw in the obligatory claim of destroying "disfavored beliefs."
Walton, thanks for your generous offer but I would not trouble & inconvenience you. I promise that I will get a copy of Stephen's book and we will discuss it.

[juliekan]

http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/discovering_eldorado/print/

article cited in Brooke's blog today, recounting some of the experiences of the ad litems who worked with the FLDS.

found one quote interesting...the FLDS MEMBERS say Merrill has the power to decide when and to whom someone should be married.
I'm guessing with that known by LE, we won't be seeing Merrill anytime soon.

[juliekan]

:cuss: My thumb just slipped and I lost two paragraphs of thoughtful prose, so I will have to begin again.
Anyway, as I was saying, I don't believe Naomi's lawsuit has any merit but am afraid someone of the mindset of evalles would give it credence. The documents seized and things that happened subsequently confirm that CPS had plenty of reason to remove children. Wonder which judge would rule on it -- wouldn't Walther be a conflict?
What is atty Gibson getting at with "...to disseminate false allegations of abuse to other agencies..." Which agencies? Why? Wouldn't be wefare b/c they weren't receiving any. And of course he had to throw in the obligatory claim of destroying "disfavored beliefs."

:D sorry your thumb slipped, I know I've had incredibly wonderful replies all crafted just to...oops! :punch:
I believe Naomi was one of the women who had no sister wives. So I can see why they are putting her forward, since she had a regular, non polygamous, marriage.
The attorney also stated CPS actions were "to turn a profit." How in the world could this action turn a profit?

[walton]

:cuss: My thumb just slipped and I lost two paragraphs of thoughtful prose, so I will have to begin again.
Anyway, as I was saying, I don't believe Naomi's lawsuit has any merit but am afraid someone of the mindset of evalles would give it credence. The documents seized and things that happened subsequently confirm that CPS had plenty of reason to remove children. Wonder which judge would rule on it -- wouldn't Walther be a conflict?
What is atty Gibson getting at with "...to disseminate false allegations of abuse to other agencies..." Which agencies? Why? Wouldn't be wefare b/c they weren't receiving any. And of course he had to throw in the obligatory claim of destroying "disfavored beliefs."
Walton, thanks for your generous offer but I would not trouble & inconvenience you. I promise that I will get a copy of Stephen's book and we will discuss it.

Not a problem Roux. You know I had said that the book I want hasn't been written yet but I gotta say that I've read some really good ones lately. I guess I am just looking at the final chapter on all this.

Or I should say I would like to see the final chapter. I just think that there is sooo much more that they haven't even touched on and I am just waiting. A person gets a feeling in their gut and sometimes they are right and sometimes they are wrong.

[Roux]

http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/discovering_eldorado/print/

article cited in Brooke's blog today, recounting some of the experiences of the ad litems who worked with the FLDS.

found one quote interesting...the FLDS MEMBERS say Merrill has the power to decide when and to whom someone should be married.
I'm guessing with that known by LE, we won't be seeing Merrill anytime soon.

I haven't read the entire article yet, but just got to the part that covers one of my pet peeves and find it impossible to control myself. :flamemad:
The attorneys found the mothers so wonderful because they forbade junk food and TV in their homes and the children were "noticeably well behaved." Oh puhleeze! No junk food or TV but their 12, 13 yr old daughters could be joined to the likes of Warren Jeffs? Maybe they're well behaved because they've been subject to physical abuse and punishment. If Merriane is any indication, many of them are little robots.

I remember seeing atty Hays, on NG I think, and I did not like her attitude and demeanor. Very arrogant and condescending IMO.
Back to reading...

[Roux]

Further down in the article atty Balovich, a self-proclaimed feminist, thinks the FLDS women are very independent and assertive; very capable of expressing what they love about their lifestyle!
And they are so pious, yet liberal and politically correct with Hays providing abortions to teens without parental knowledge. I've got to quit reading for now before I have a fit of apoplexy.

[juliekan]

Further down in the article atty Balovich, a self-proclaimed feminist, thinks the FLDS women are very independent and assertive; very capable of expressing what they love about their lifestyle!
And they are so pious, yet liberal and politically correct with Hays providing abortions to teens without parental knowledge. I've got to quit reading for now before I have a fit of apoplexy.

I figured those FLDS women were saying in their head "They told us these people are heathens."

[lotty]

:seeya:
Hi everyone,
I've missed all of you, I'm trying to keep up. I have been putting in a lot of extra hours working :(. Will stay in touch.
lotty

[juliekan]

:seeya:
Hi everyone,
I've missed all of you, I'm trying to keep up. I have been putting in a lot of extra hours working :(. Will stay in touch.
lotty

:seeya: lotty, don't work too hard. We miss you too.

[lotty]

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700263907,00.html
Arizona defends search of FLDS ranch
By Ben Winslow
Deseret News
Published: Friday, Oct. 3, 2008 3:14 p.m. MDT

"Additionally, since the defendant relinquished his role as leader of the FLDS while in Utah custody, he cannot now assert that he was in control of the YFZ Ranch as the leader of the FLDS at the time of the search on April 6, 2008," Smith wrote. "It is settled law that one has no standing to complain of a search or seizure of property he has voluntarily abandoned."

[walton]

I don't get it.

Lotty's link says it was published yesterday. The link I bring up says it is published today.

When I looked for it via the newspaper today I can't find it in todays news or yesterdays news.

Are they using the " I wasn't a Prophet " story so they can go after Merril and others?

Are they charging Jeffs with anything concerning the Texas raid?



Am I missing something?

[walton]

:seeya:
Hi everyone,
I've missed all of you, I'm trying to keep up. I have been putting in a lot of extra hours working :(. Will stay in touch.
lotty


:rose: I feel your pain. 78 hours last week. I was bouncing off of walls.

[LLaFren]

What's with all of us putting in so much OT? I put in 61hrs myself last week, finally got the house clean today and am reading while folding laundry (where do all these clothes come from anyway?)

It's good to see everyone still posting on this thread and keeping it active.

I truly appreciate being able to go the links and catch up.


Thanks for all ya'lls work on keeping this thread active and keeping me up to date.

THANK YOU!

[walton]

What's with all of us putting in so much OT? I put in 61hrs myself last week, finally got the house clean today and am reading while folding laundry (where do all these clothes come from anyway?)

It's good to see everyone still posting on this thread and keeping it active.

I truly appreciate being able to go the links and catch up.


Thanks for all ya'lls work on keeping this thread active and keeping me up to date.

THANK YOU!

With all the hours put in last week I would wake up, shut the alarm off and then I wasn't sure if I was setting the alarm or turning it off. Ugggh

We have a program at work where the cut off date on the computers would be 3 pm. Anything after 3 pm would be considered tomorrow, so even if I was looking at today's events I would actually be looking at yesterdays. Tis no wonder I don't know if today is actually today or if today is tomorrow but considered yesterday.

I forget to check out the links thread. I always just click on the little > from the last poster. But there is a new link there from lotty. Thanks lotty.

http://homemakers.com/Life&Times/reallives/polygamy-in-canada-our-dirty-little-secret-n260428p1.html

:) Daphne Bramham has written a lot of articles concerning the Polygamy issues in Canada. In my opinion she has been straight up when writing her articles. I think she is one of the good guys.

I still don't get it concerning Warren and the charges or non charges from the compound. Yes? No? Maybe?

[walton]

http://www.clippertoday.com/ Scroll down to the story Patterns of Polygamy - Son of ‘Kingston Clan’ founder comes forward
Tom Busselberg 02.OCT.08


He says he was kicked out, along with his 80-year-old mother and other family members, in 1990.

Where Lionel draws the line, however, is in what he considers incestuous marriages that first took place in 1950, two years after his father Elden died.

“They claim they would build the bloodline” and keep it pure, he told the Clipper.

But there have been some physical and mental problems as a result of that practice, Lionel said.

“They have mental problems; some of them are handicapped,” he said. “A few go in and out of mental hospitals.”

But he said most with severe deformities “die, usually when they’re born. They take them to the hospital (usually the University of Utah Medical Center), where it’s free” for medical care, he said.

In most cases, though, babies are not delivered at a hospital. “They always do home births. Paul (Kingston) has delivered more babies than most doctors, and he’s good at it,” Lionel said.

[walton]

Hey there Grammy :seeya:

I am not a fan of Heidi Mattingly.

Lionel spoke of delivering many children. He also spoke of many children born with deformities and that many die at birth. Are those births and deaths recorded?

[walton]

http://www.truthwillprevail.org/

It is titled An Answer to a Prayer

As you know I am fascinated with the history of Utah and especially the history of the LDS move to Utah.

Grammy take a look at this story. Do you understand what he is saying?


I don't agree with Polygamy. I don't agree with the practice of Polygamy. But I think I understand what he is trying to say.

[walton]

Grammy thanks for your response. I am gonna think about it all for a day before I come back with my questions.

:rose:

[juliekan]

Ack!! :chicken:

My sister is a Fashion Editor for W. I doubt she had anything to do with this layout, but I intend to ask! Ack!

There are pictures of my mom with that hairstyle back in the 40's, I thinks she said it was called a victory flip or something? Let's hope the greatest generation inspired this look, not the FLDS.

[juliekan]

http://www.truthwillprevail.org/

It is titled An Answer to a Prayer

As you know I am fascinated with the history of Utah and especially the history of the LDS move to Utah.

Grammy take a look at this story. Do you understand what he is saying?


I don't agree with Polygamy. I don't agree with the practice of Polygamy. But I think I understand what he is trying to say.

Thanks you grammy and GGW for your insight to this article.

One thing that sounded false in this article was when he did not fight the excommunication after a woman visiting his wife in their trailer was mistaken for being another wife he had taken. Why would the councilman just assume she was another wife? And wouldn't it be real easy to clear up the misunderstanding by putting forward the woman's real husband? Sounded like he wanted to be misjudged by the LDS and blame it on them in order to change to the FLDS.
He never referred to taking other wives, but that's necessary to get a "good seat" in heaven for the FLDS. I wonder if he took other wives.

[Roux]

http://www.truthwillprevail.org/

It is titled An Answer to a Prayer

As you know I am fascinated with the history of Utah and especially the history of the LDS move to Utah.

Grammy take a look at this story. Do you understand what he is saying?


I don't agree with Polygamy. I don't agree with the practice of Polygamy. But I think I understand what he is trying to say.

I read several paragraphs of this man's story. (After tophound jumped all over me, I said I wasn't going to make any more comments about religion but I lied :D) God did not reveal anything to Joseph Smith that He would not reveal to the entire world. There are no secrets or hidden enlightenment; God gives freely to all and favors no one above another. IMO polygamy is simply a false teaching, and the proof of it lies in the actions of the FLDS.
There was a time in my life when I was very much against organized religion because of the fundamentalist church I was brought up in (Church of Christ), but deep down I knew God existed -- I just had to find a way to understand what was true and what was some old geezer's interpretation. Thirty years later I'm still on my journey and although I don't have all the answers, I know it's what you have in your spirit and heart that matters, not outward behavior. Everyone has to find their own way, and God is patient and kind.
I don't know why this man, if he fasted and prayed as he says, hasn't understood that these are false teachings. Lots of things I don't understand and maybe never will.
O/T a bit but I saw that ad for Bill Maher's new movie and I'd like to answer him about why God has delayed destruction --He's waiting for people like you Bill to see the light!

[juliekan]

County Attorney Responds in Jeffs case--Polygamist leader's attempt to relinquish control as the key holder may have backfired

http://www.kingmandailyminer.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&subsectionID=1&articleID=17823

"The Lord has shown me that I am one of the most wicked men on the face of the Earth since the days of Adam, that I do not hold priesthood anymore and that you, my family, should look to Brother William E. Jessop as keyholder of the priesthood and Brother Merrill is his second counselor," Jeffs said.

[juliekan]

FLDS suit: Seizing Trust Violates Religious Freedom
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_10652777

The filing also alleges that one of the reasons for reorganizing the trust -that UEP supported bigamy-is invalid because Utah's bigamy law targets "religious polygamists and is not enforced in a religiously neutral manner."

Religiously neutral manner????
So are they saying that other religous bigamists in Utah are not being targeted? What other religions in Utah practice bigamy, that are happily running large corporations for their religion, and are being given free rein by LE?

[Roux]

County Attorney Responds in Jeffs case--Polygamist leader's attempt to relinquish control as the key holder may have backfired

http://www.kingmandailyminer.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&subsectionID=1&articleID=17823

"The Lord has shown me that I am one of the most wicked men on the face of the Earth since the days of Adam, that I do not hold priesthood anymore and that you, my family, should look to Brother William E. Jessop as keyholder of the priesthood and Brother Merrill is his second counselor," Jeffs said.

Looks like it will be poetic justice if Warren's words do indeed come back to bite him in the butt. That picture of him -- what a doofus! Hard to understand the power and control he has been able to exert over people.

Wish I was brave enough to click on that ad on the right of the page --Polygamy Personals! :eek:

[texski]

I agree their life is not simple at all. I have always felt like it took more effort to lie and keep the lies straight instead of just telling the truth in the begining. Most people are honest and would be embarassed to stoop as low as the FLDS do.
grammy bear i have not posted in a long time, but i felt that i must tell you that your posts about the Mormon Church have meant a great difference to me in how i view you and your fellow church members. in our small town some land has been purchased for a new church by your fellows. i am now looking forward to meeting them and hopefully expect they will be as good as you are.

[walton]

Ok grammy

I thought about this for a couple of days now.

One question- (Yup, just one.) I am running late, but I will be back tonight.



What about the 8 hour meeting?

[Roux]

Grammybear,
I hope that no one, and most especially you, did not misconstrue my comment upthread. I have the utmost respect for you and meant no insult or disrespect in my comment about Joseph Smith. What I was trying to convey was that IMO no religion, denomination, sect, whatever-group has an inside track to God. God gives freely to all and I'm suspect when anyone teaches they're the only ones going to heaven.
To any reader here, I apologize if I offended. FLDS is the only group I had in mind when I posted.

[walton]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700265113,00.html

In a ruling that could have widespread impact on the ongoing legal war involving the Fundamentalist LDS Church, the judge overseeing the polygamous sect's real-estate arm has ousted the law firm that used to represent it.

Rod Parker and the Salt Lake law firm Snow Christensen & Martineau were disqualified Wednesday from representing the FLDS Church and some of its members in a challenge to the reforms of the United Effort Plan Trust.

"This is an irreconcilable conflict, and it mandates the disqualification of Mr. Parker and the law firm," 3rd District Judge Denise Lindberg said. "It extends to the consultation of present and future litigants."



:D << grin from ear to ear

[walton]

http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_10674586

Attorney Richard Van Wagoner, who represented Parker in the Wednesday hearing, said he will appeal Lindberg's decision.

He also plans to appeal the judge's order requiring Parker and R. Scott Berry, who also represented the FLDS church, to turn over documents related to the trust to Wisan.

Lindberg said Wisan is entitled to see documents related to the trust's past management.



:D


Despite all the law books and legal talk sometimes that good old common sense just jumps out all over the place.

[walton]

Here's a bit of humor at Warren Jeffs expense from the SL Tribune newspaper: http://166.70.44.68/blogs/trent/2008/10/warren-jeffs-turns-into-bat-boy/

Article & photo written by Trent, SLTrib photo journalist. Had me LMAO it's funny. Wonder what ole Warren the felonious prophet thought?:lol:



For a lot of reasons I thought it was funny.

[walton]

Hi Walton,

I am still searching for answers on that very question. I will let you know if I find out anything.

Thanks Grammy. I appreciate your patience with me.

[lotty]

Wow, three great posts to brighten my day. Walton, I hope Parker and Berry have to turn every document on UEP over. I hope Parker doesn't get to defend the FLDS anymore (Sorry, JMO that relationship is not right.) I loved the batboy pic, TY Texas-SE, I am roflmao!:lol:

[Roux]

Thanks for the links Walton. Glad Parker & his crew are out for now, and I hope that Judge Denise's ruling is upheld. If Parker knew of all the wrong doing by Warren and crew, he should face some consequences.
The FLDS always want it their way. In the Deseret News article Willie claimed "psychological and sociological warfare," yet they always accuse others of playing the religious persecution card. Also I wonder when was the Berry Knoll Farm designated as a temple site? Was this documented somewhere in the past, or something they came up with to stop the sale.
Anyone know what's going with AZ and Warren? Do y'all think we'll ever see Merrill on the FBI's mosted wanted list? I would love to turn on AMW one Saturday night and see his face on the screen.
:seeya:

[juliekan]

http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_10674586

Attorney Richard Van Wagoner, who represented Parker in the Wednesday hearing, said he will appeal Lindberg's decision.

He also plans to appeal the judge's order requiring Parker and R. Scott Berry, who also represented the FLDS church, to turn over documents related to the trust to Wisan.

Lindberg said Wisan is entitled to see documents related to the trust's past management.



:D


Despite all the law books and legal talk sometimes that good old common sense just jumps out all over the place.

I was confused how Parker played both sides, until I read a comment on this article. Basically, Parker used to represent lawsuits to evict FLDS families, but now he is suing the trust for selling land and trying to evict FLDS families for not paying the $100/mo fee or signing occupancy papers. Is this correct?

[lotty]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/6049314.html
Ex-trust attorneys barred from representing sect
© 2008 The Associated Press
Oct. 9, 2008, 2:49PM

JMO I think I smell trouble for RP. Anyone know if he is licensed to practice law in Texas?