Odds and Ends, Pt. II

[day2day]

I am thinking of a 'psychic sideline' for next year...as a hedge against inflation. But I need to get this game prediction right...so I can advertise. Joe ended his Michigan jinx last week. I figure the Lions can keep it rolling at the horseshoe.

As for RG...lotsa calm water between them there ripples, doncha think?! ... :shrug:

lol!!! if you are counting on your latest prediction to get you on the "team" you should hurry and CHANGE it!! You have a few more hours-my friend!! :lol:

As for the ripples-yes they are slow-but they are moving. And i pray that they will bring some closure to the family!!

[Serendipitous1]

lol!!! if you are counting on your latest prediction to get you on the "team" you should hurry and CHANGE it!! You have a few more hours-my friend!! :lol:

As for the ripples-yes they are slow-but they are moving. And i pray that they will bring some closure to the family!!Oh yeah, that win was impressive...totally unlike anything TC or MM has mustered so far! But I was off by 5 points. Do you think that messes up my chance at being a lucky guesser...I mean, psychic?

[day2day]

Oh yeah, that win was impressive...totally unlike anything TC or MM has mustered so far! But I was off by 5 points. Do you think that messes up my chance at being a lucky guesser...I mean, psychic?

Oh S1 i am SO sad that the Buckeyes lost. But it was a really good game. And nope-i think your chances of joining the psychic team look pretty good this mornin!! Did you see "murtha" on SNL last night? it was so fitting..lol~
i haven't laughed so hard in a long long time :lol:

[sherrijean981]

Didn't know where to put this so thought here would be okay.
Don't know if it had anything to do with the riot in State College last night after the game or not but looks like a lot of damage done.
Can anyone make out the name on the Sheriff's van?

http://www.centredaily.com/news/local/story/923474.html

[sherrijean981]

www.centredaily.com (http://www.centredaily.com)

From the article on the Centre County Courthouse vandalism in previous post

"Bellefonte police say they are looking into whether the acts were caught on video surveillance that surrounds the courthouse".

They are saying here there are video's SURROUNDING the courthouse. Did they just put them in? Are they only angled at the doors and if they didn't see all of RG the night before he disappeared, are they going to find the same thing on this incident?

[sherrijean981]

I had a pm from a little birdy who said the previous post should be sent elsewhere but I feel the item is here for legitimate reasons. It does have something to do with Ray Gricar, but not the crime itself.

I posted the CCCH incident not because of what was done at the court house, but because in the story it is said there are camera's surrounding the building. I didn't mention it in my original first post before I hit the submit button so made a second one to bypass the reason I am editing it.

Ray Gricar was caught on camera on Thursday night, 4/14/05, about 9:00 pm or a little later, but only coming out the back door. (At least that was all that was told to the public). If these camera's are surrounding the building are they able to get the whole parking lot? Were they able to see the side parking meters going up and down both sides of the CCCH? Were they able to see Judge Grine and Carolyn Fenton leaving the CCCH at the same time and was there an odd car in the lot at anytime previously to their leaving the courthouse? Could the car CF saw have been sitting in the lot for a short period of time?

[day2day]

Didn't know where to put this so thought here would be okay.
Don't know if it had anything to do with the riot in State College last night after the game or not but looks like a lot of damage done.
Can anyone make out the name on the Sheriff's van?

http://www.centredaily.com/news/local/story/923474.html

Thanks for posting this sj! Lord they did alot of damage :(...
All i can make out is g-unit and something screem 94.

[day2day]

www.centredaily.com (http://www.centredaily.com)

From the article on the Centre County Courthouse vandalism in previous post

"Bellefonte police say they are looking into whether the acts were caught on video surveillance that surrounds the courthouse".

They are saying here there are video's SURROUNDING the courthouse. Did they just put them in? Are they only angled at the doors and if they didn't see all of RG the night before he disappeared, are they going to find the same thing on this incident?

Interesting isn't it. I think that they should release the tapes of the night of 4/14/05. Why are they holding them back...
It breaks my heart that he is still out there...somewhere!!

[gstickley]

Hey Day & SJ. (I just turned into a poet!)

Glad you 'see' you again, Day. I was rootin' for OS all the way!

SJ, thanks for posting about the destruction of that beautiful courthouse. It probably came as a result of the win Sat. (Here, we just burn couches in the street!)

3 yrs. 6 mos., 15 days since RG disappeared, & here we still are . . . but 'they're' workin' on it . . .

[day2day]

Hey Day & SJ. (I just turned into a poet!)

Glad you 'see' you again, Day. I was rootin' for OS all the way!

SJ, thanks for posting about the destruction of that beautiful courthouse. It probably came as a result of the win Sat. (Here, we just burn couches in the street!)

3 yrs. 6 mos., 15 days since RG disappeared, & here we still are . . . but 'they're' workin' on it . . .

hiya gs!!
So nice to "see" you. 3 years -6 months and 15 days. It breaks my heart to think we may never know the truth. The silence is still deafening...and it makes me angry. WHY doesn't someone DO something about this case. Doesn't anyone CARE?

There are so many cases -it is beginning to make my head spin. I really wonder about this world and the people in it. It is scary. Mama's killing their littleones, families being murdered in their own homes and DA'S that simply vanish into thin air....

:mad:

[sherrijean981]

hiya gs!!
So nice to "see" you. 3 years -6 months and 15 days. It breaks my heart to think we may never know the truth. The silence is still deafening...and it makes me angry. WHY doesn't someone DO something about this case. Doesn't anyone CARE?

There are so many cases -it is beginning to make my head spin. I really wonder about this world and the people in it. It is scary. Mama's killing their littleones, families being murdered in their own homes and DA'S that simply vanish into thin air....

:mad:


I receive email from the FBI siteand today received the following one. I am posting the link because of you saying "doesn't anyone care". I find this group very caring, although it doesn't help with RG, it does help missing children.

http://www.fbi.gov/page2/oct08/innocencelost_102708.html

I will salute my flag :patriot: to these groups of people for a job well done! I pray they might hear something in one of the many cities they are giong to that could lead to some other missing children, men (RG) and women.

[day2day]

I receive email from the FBI siteand today received the following one. I am posting the link because of you saying "doesn't anyone care". I find this group very caring, although it doesn't help with RG, it does help missing children.

http://www.fbi.gov/page2/oct08/innocencelost_102708.html

I will salute my flag :patriot: to these groups of people for a job well done! I pray they might hear something in one of the many cities they are giong to that could lead to some other missing children, men (RG) and women.

Thanks for the link SJ....and yes i agree these people are awesome. There are many great people who fight everyday for missing children and adults. i just find it very sad that noone has stepped up to help in the search of Mr. Gricar. Mr. Gricar from what i have read and have been told by those who knew him and loved him lots-helped many people. i would only hope that someone out there is trying to help his family have peace. They certainly deserve that much...

jmo..and thanks again for the link. 47 chldren saved. :rose:

[sherrijean981]

Thanks for the link SJ....and yes i agree these people are awesome. There are many great people who fight everyday for missing children and adults. i just find it very sad that noone has stepped up to help in the search of Mr. Gricar. Mr. Gricar from what i have read and have been told by those who knew him and loved him lots-helped many people. i would only hope that someone out there is trying to help his family have peace. They certainly deserve that much...

jmo..and thanks again for the link. 47 chldren saved. :rose:

Read to the bottom of the article. There actually were over 500, which might include children reported by the 47, or found due to the investigations. I don't think they were all being put out as prostitutes but found anyways.

You never know about these investigations. When people are caught and going to jail they will tell all kinds of things thinking they will get time off their sentence.

[Cloudbuster]

Thanks for posting this sj! Lord they did alot of damage :(...
All i can make out is g-unit and something screem 94.


Looks like the word Creepy 94. On the 3rd pillar is a star and the letter S. The last pillar looks like a money sign. The first pillar looks like the letter Z. I didn't realize the sherriffs vechicle is a white van. Interesting. It has a star on it too and a S10 and a 911. Ya learn something new everyday. I don't remember camears all the way around but I know they got back ones and possible front ones.

[Serendipitous1]

Union County Sheriff John Shrawder, 59, died of a heart attack yesterday.
http://www.wqkx.com/1070_WKOK/WKOK_local_news.htm

He did a lot for DD during the early part of the investigation. This was the man I will always remember seeing, walking alone along the river, searching for any sign of RG...even into the evening, on his own time. He also spent many hours in a boat on the river.

Just after the laptop was discovered JS said, "I've been telling myself from day one that he's here. He's here. He's here, here, here. And he's dead." (CDT, 8/2/05).

Perhaps so. And now, so too is JS...before his time. Rest in peace John Shrawder. ... :rose:

[Cloudbuster]

Union County Sheriff John Shrawder, 59, died of a heart attack yesterday.
http://www.wqkx.com/1070_WKOK/WKOK_local_news.htm

He did a lot for DD during the early part of the investigation. This was the man I will always remember seeing, walking alone along the river, searching for any sign of RG...even into the evening, on his own time. He also spent many hours in a boat on the river.

Just after the laptop was discovered JS said, "I've been telling myself from day one that he's here. He's here. He's here, here, here. And he's dead." (CDT, 8/2/05).

Perhaps so. And now, so too is JS...before his time. Rest in peace John Shrawder. ... :rose:


S1 thanks for letting us all know about this dedicated man. I feel SO bad. 59 is not old. My Ex is in the hospital he is 49 years old they think he had his first heart attack. They are conducting tests. Ya just don't ever know. :(

[Serendipitous1]

RG disappeared at age 59, John Shrawder, dead at 59. Geez...is there some sort of '60 wall' I should know about?

PB laments over cold cases today, on the eve of Cindy Song's disappearance. And so do I. I think PB fairly assessed CB's "contributions". If he could write a book on RG, I could add a lot to the "psychic realm" chapter. CB was involved with both cases, to the point of coaxing a private S&R group to take cadaver dogs to various areas in PA in 2005. The PSP put a stop to it in Cindy Song's case, despite strong local suspicions of a connection between Song and other missing persons (not RG)...and previously found bodies. And the search for RG's "remains", of course, yielded nothing.

But there is another connection between Song and Gricar. In both instances the PSP-CIA unit was called in to evaluate. In both cases the unit offered areas to further pursue. Both investigations have remained local. And both cases remain unresolved.

The AG's office dismantled Lee's drug organization in late March 2005...but only after RG and the locals already had Lee in jail, that January, based on the local investigation. Lee was not the top of that "food chain". Which PA agency is best qualified to investigate statewide, and get out-of-state LE cooperation? The BPD?

AVM (or AMV) was headed toward the gas chamber in 2005. His supporters made RG's adamance in that regard a central issue...in a supposed injustice. There remains a question whether RG's staff were totally onboard with his call for the DP. AVM's supporters were from all over the place. Which PA agency is best qualified to investigate statewide, and get out-of-state LE cooperation? The BPD?

There is a huge difference between a local PD trying to think of ways the state AG's office or FBI could assist...and a state-run or FBI-run investigation. And when the current AG cannot find it within himself to even be bothered by the possibility that a representative of the state might have been murdered...isn't it time for a new AG?

[Cloudbuster]

Tonight is the night that Cindy Song has disappeared. Lets us all remember her tonight and each say a pray for a closure for her family and for all those who worked her case. Im sure it still haunts many!! Cindy wherever you are tonight I pray you be found!! May God place it in someone heart out there to talk. Someone out there knows what happened and you know who you are. please come forward!! :rose:

[Serendipitous1]

There are so many, long missing and recent. Be on the lookout for Jessie Richmond, missing since October 23.
http://www.statecollegepa.us/index.asp?NID=1030

[J. J. in Phila]

Agreed. I hope that there will be closure in the Cindy Song case.

[Cloudbuster]

Today in Pete Bosak's blog is a article on the death of Matthew Gricar 6 months old. I want to send my deepest sympathy to all the Gricar family!!! May God help you at your time of loss!!!!:rose:
http://community.centredaily.com/?q=blog/2

[Serendipitous1]

This goes out to Debbie (we could be friends, in another life...no, surely, we are friends...and I know you know what I mean):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-T35WXFOmwI

[Cloudbuster]

http://www.whitecollarfraud.com/1583432.html
The Art of Spinning:

Sell people hope. My cousin ‘Crazy Eddie’ Antar taught me that “people live on hope” and their hopes and dreams must be fed through our spin and lies. In any situation, if possible, accentuate the positive.
Make excuses as long as you can. Try to have your excuses based on at least one truthful fact even if the fact is unrelated to your actions and argument.
When you cannot dispute the underlying facts, accept them as true but rationalize your actions. You are allowed to make mistakes as long as you have no wrongful intent. Being stupid is not a crime.
Always say in words you “take responsibility” but try to indirectly shift the blame on other people and factors. You need to portray yourself as a “stand up” guy or gal.
When you cannot defend your actions or arguments attack the messenger to detract attention from your questionable actions.
Always show your kindness by doing people favors. You will require the gratitude of such people to come to your aid and defend you.
Build up your stature, integrity, and credibility by publicizing the good deeds you have done in areas unrelated to the subject of scrutiny.
Build a strong base of support. Try to have surrogates and the beneficiaries of your largess stand up for you and defend you.
If you can, appear to take the “high road” and have your surrogates do the “dirty work” for you. After all, you cannot control the actions of your zealots.
When you can no longer spin, shut up. For example, offer no guidance to investors or resign for “personal reasons.” Your surrogates and so-called friends can still speak on your behalf and defend you.
If you are under investigation always say you will “cooperate.” However, use all means necessary legal or otherwise to stifle the investigators. Remember that “people live on hope” and their inclination is to believe you.
When called to testify under oath (if you do not exercise your 5th amendment privilege against self-incrimination) have selective memory about your questionable actions. It is harder to be charged with perjury if you cannot remember what you have done rather than testify and lie about it.
However, before you testify have other friendly witnesses testify before you to defend you. You need to “lock in” their stories first (before they change their minds) so your testimony does not conflict with their testimony and your story will appear to be more truthful.
Try not to have your actions at least appear to rise to the level of criminal conduct or a litigable action. Being stupid or being unethical is not always a crime or a tortious action.
One last rule, to be a most effective spinner always keep your friends close and your enemies closer. The kindness you show your enemies will reduce their propensity to be skeptical of you.

[Cloudbuster]

http://www.libraryindex.com/pages/497/White-Collar-Crime-MONEY-LAUNDERING.html
In 2001 the Strengthening America Act by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism, informally called the Patriot Act, strengthened laws dealing with how U.S. banks use foreign correspondent banks to transfer money into and out of the country and the financing of terrorist organizations and activities. It also outlawed bulk cash smuggling, making it illegal to take more than $10,000 in concealed cash across the border to avoid reporting requirements. In addition to these federal measures, 36 states have adopted money laundering laws since 1985.

Increased awareness of money laundering is reflected in the number of Suspicious Activity Reports (SAR) submitted by banks to the U.S. Department of the Treasury. These reports, required whenever a bank has reason to believe that a transaction of at least $5,000 involves money derived from illegal activities, increased by 206 percent from 1997 to 2001. In 2002 over 273,000 reports were filed. The states of New York, Nevada, and California had the highest SAR levels, while the highest levels for metropolitan areas were found in New York and Los Angeles.



If Ray is out there then he would need more than $10,000 to live this long on. How could he be able to cross the border with that cash?

[J. J. in Phila]

The short answer is the same way a few 100,000 people do when they set up off shore bank accounts, in theory at least. And RFG would likely have a knowledge of how to do it, because he was familiar with the laws governing transfers.

It is possible, though since the financial data is (rightly) private, we are not going to know.

[sherrijean981]

Interesting video. Happy holidays to all, a little early.

http://www.youtube.com/swf/l.swf?swf=http%3A//s.ytimg.com/yt/swf/cps-vfl64504.swf&video_id=x-JMePMCRhc&rel=1&showsearch=1&eurl=&iurl=http%3A//i1.ytimg.com/vi/x-JMePMCRhc/hqdefault.jpg&sk=WHBtEdzpSrmaGa3BXecdm0otrQFAKB7BC&use_get_video_info=1&load_modules=1&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&fs=1%22%3E%3C/param%3E%3Cparam

[gstickley]

I think I know what happened to RG.

RG walked away with Hortense Hootenanny (you know, the elderly telephone operator in the courthouse basement). They were 'best buds' & she listened in to everyone's telephone calls after answering the phone & transmitting the calls to the proper offices; after all, the courthouse did not have up-to-date telephone equipment). Hortense is the reason RG returned to the courthouse on Thu. evening; together they made final plans to walk away, as they had discussed same for many years.

In fact, years before, RG deliberately brought up stories of other professionals who disappeared so everyone would think that's what happened to him when he & Hortense decided to leave. Their plans had been in effect since the 80's, but both were very patient.

Hortense took off work on Fri., leaving PF to answer the phones, so she could take all her 59 cats to other homes in the country. RG took the Mini, & used his cell phone to call the courthouse to know for sure that Hortense had left too; he hadn't been able to contact her because of leaving a trail on his cellphone or landline phone, & Tracfones hadn't been invented yet.

Hortense & RG then met in Lewisburg, where RG left the Mini in the SOS parking lot, & got into Hortense's silver/metallic car. Many people (8-10possibly more) saw RG in Lewisburg but couldn't see Hortense because she was so short.

RG drove Hortense's car back to Bellefonte to the courthouse, because Hortense had forgotten to leave her key (she was such a loyal employee!). Curses, RG & the car were seen; Hortense, being so short, was not seen.

Sometime later, they were both seen in Michigan (can't remember exact state because I'm on such a roll!); you will remember the sighting of RG & 'the elderly lady', I'm sure. Well, folks, that was RG & Hortense.

I don't know where they went or what they're doing, but I'm pretty sure cats are involved, because Hortense loved cats. And, RG doesn't need any of his money; they live happily on Hortense's Social Security check (so that settles the problem of all of RG's money being left behind.)

The end.

[J. J. in Phila]

Well, GS, if the CDT ever has a fairy tail contest you can cobble together most of your posts and win.

[gstickley]

Well, GS, if the CDT ever has a fairy tail contest you can cobble together most of your posts and win.

Thanks. I thought it was as good as some of the other BS I've seen lately. Glad you agree.

[J. J. in Phila]

Thanks. I thought it was as good as some of the other BS I've seen lately. Glad you agree.

I whole heartedly agree that if we take the bulk of your posts, we wouldn't need the Brothers Grimm.

I like evidence, not fantasy. Fantasy can be enteraining. I am occasionally entertained by your posts.

[gstickley]

I whole heartedly agree that if we take the bulk of your posts, we wouldn't need the Brothers Grimm.

I like evidence, not fantasy. Fantasy can be enteraining. I am occasionally entertained by your posts.

Ahhh, but you have no evidence!!!!!! Your fantasy about equal with mine! And I know I have no evidence.

[J. J. in Phila]

Ahhh, but you have no evidence!!!!!! Your fantasy about equal with mine! And I know I have no evidence.

Wrong again, we, that is the public does have that evidence reported.

[gstickley]

Wrong again, we, that is the public does have that evidence reported.

Exactly what evidence has been reported to the public by LE &/or the DA's office?

[J. J. in Phila]

Exactly what evidence has been reported to the public by LE &/or the DA's office?


Is this more of the grand conspiracy that everybody is suppose be part of except you.

No, in some cases, witnesses have come forward apart from LE. They are talking to participants directly.

[annalyzer]

Does anyone think this man is still alive?

[J. J. in Phila]

Does anyone think this man is still alive?


Yes, including some of closer friends. I'm undecided.

Legally, no one has declared him dead yet, so he is in that way.

[gstickley]

Is this more of the grand conspiracy that everybody is suppose be part of except you.

No, in some cases, witnesses have come forward apart from LE. They are talking to participants directly.

This is what you said a couple posts ago: "Wrong again, we, that is the public does have that evidence reported."

It only becomes EVIDENCE if LE says it is EVIDENCE. And they haven't told the public about any EVIDENCE. (However, Bellefonte PD has made 'mistakements' in the past.)

[gstickley]

Does anyone think this man is still alive?

I don't. But, we'll never know for sure unless a REAL investigation is conducted into his disappearance.

[J. J. in Phila]

This is what you said a couple posts ago: "Wrong again, we, that is the public does have that evidence reported."

It only becomes EVIDENCE if LE says it is EVIDENCE. And they haven't told the public about any EVIDENCE. (However, Bellefonte PD has made 'mistakements' in the past.)

Who told you that????

There is EVIDENCE in terms of the witness reports, that has not been filtered through LE. Fenton is a very good example, as is Judge Grine.

On the points both Fenton and Grine agree on, I give those a great deal of weight.

[gstickley]

Who told you that????

There is EVIDENCE in terms of the witness reports, that has not been filtered through LE. Fenton is a very good example, as is Judge Grine.

On the points both Fenton and Grine agree on, I give those a great deal of weight.

Common sense tells me that.

And, who put you in charge of determining the evidence in the disappearance of Ray Gricar?

Well, I know you're not much, but maybe you're as good as the BPD.

Are you saying the investigation into disappearance of Ray Gricar is now in your hands & not in the hands of the BPD??

[J. J. in Phila]

Common sense tells me that.

And, who put you in charge of determining the evidence in the disappearance of Ray Gricar?

Well, I know you're not much, but maybe you're as good as the BPD.

Are you saying the investigation into disappearance of Ray Gricar is now in your hands & not in the hands of the BPD??

I never claimed that I was. Evidence, however, is evidence, whether or not LE says it is.

[day2day]

Common sense tells me that.

And, who put you in charge of determining the evidence in the disappearance of Ray Gricar?

Well, I know you're not much, but maybe you're as good as the BPD.

Are you saying the investigation into disappearance of Ray Gricar is now in your hands & not in the hands of the BPD??

:lol:gs-you crack me up!!

IMO i think ANYONE would be as good as the bpd. I have said MANY times i wish i had the money to hire someone to investigate this. It NEEDS to be done. Whoever harmed Mr. Gricar is still free....

[J. J. in Phila]

:lol:gs-you crack me up!!

IMO i think ANYONE would be as good as the bpd. I have said MANY times i wish i had the money to hire someone to investigate this. It NEEDS to be done. Whoever harmed Mr. Gricar is still free....

And thre is the possibility that no one harmed Mr. Gricar.

[day2day]

And thre is the possibility that no one harmed Mr. Gricar.

I agree -it is possible..but not probable.

[J. J. in Phila]

I agree -it is possible..but not probable.


Unfortunately, excluding RFG, the odds probably always have made it probable.

[Serendipitous1]

Renner's new book: The Serial Killer’s Apprentice, including: "This one sends chills up my spine. In 2005 Cleveland-native Ray Gricar vanished from Western Pennsylvania nine years after his brother went missing. Here’s where it gets bizarre: A few years prior Ray had encouraged a friend to complete writing a science fiction novel involving a murder that takes place on the same day Ray disappeared. Something tells me this isn’t a coincidence."
http://jamesrenner.wordpress.com/
http://amymihaljevic.blogspot.com/2008/10/arrest.html

My opinion: Since the man-kisser's "teaser" itself contains silly errors (and remembering his last pathetic attempt at "journalism" in this case), this book is not on my Christmas list. Someone else will have to tell me how it ends.

[Politigal]

I posted this in the links thread but I found a photo of Asst DA Mark Smith...Scroll to the third photo.

Wow, if he's the tall guy in the center, he soooo resembles Ray Gricar.

http://www.pagrandlodge.org/freemason/0807/page12.html

[J. J. in Phila]

I posted this in the links thread but I found a photo of Asst DA Mark Smith...Scroll to the third photo.

Wow, if he's the tall guy in the center, he soooo resembles Ray Gricar.

http://www.pagrandlodge.org/freemason/0807/page12.html

P'gal, you are now either joking or you are seeing things. :rolleyes:

[Politigal]

P'gal, you are now either joking or you are seeing things. :rolleyes:

No, I'm dead serious. If Mark Smith is the tall man in the center, he resembles Gricar ...with the hair, stature, even the smile.

[J. J. in Phila]

No, I'm dead serious. If Mark Smith is the tall man in the center, he resembles Gricar ...with the hair, stature, even the smile.

RFG has a high hairline, possibly receding. Smith doesn't. RFG was exceptionally trim. Smith is a bit heavy set, not fat but not thin. He has very broad shoulders.

Here is one of the last photos:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08106/873326-85.stm

That hairline is hugely different.

[sherrijean981]

No, I'm dead serious. If Mark Smith is the tall man in the center, he resembles Gricar ...with the hair, stature, even the smile.


No way! I sure don't see it.

[Politigal]

No way! I sure don't see it.

are you looking at the third photo?

[J. J. in Phila]

are you looking at the third photo?

I am, yes. This is the similarity, they are both older white men with graying hair.

I enlarged Smith's photo. His jaw is squarer; his face more angular. His eyebrows are thicker. The real difference is the hairline. Smith's skin looks less wrinkled as well, but it's hard to tell.

[Cloudbuster]

I posted this in the links thread but I found a photo of Asst DA Mark Smith...Scroll to the third photo.

Wow, if he's the tall guy in the center, he soooo resembles Ray Gricar.

http://www.pagrandlodge.org/freemason/0807/page12.html

Pgal it seems those in the photo are freemason's. Are they? I wanted to bring up there is a Masonic hall in Lewisburg I remember it in one of my maps. Can anyone find it? I wonder if RG was a mason?

[J. J. in Phila]

Pgal it seems those in the photo are freemason's. Are they? I wanted to bring up there is a Masonic hall in Lewisburg I remember it in one of my maps. Can anyone find it? I wonder if RG was a mason?

I don't think he was. I asked about any clubs he was a member of once. Lewisburg has a Masonic Lodge on Front Street. Meetings are the Second Tuesday, so it isn't too likely that he was there for a lodge meeting.

[Cloudbuster]

I don't think he was. I asked about any clubs he was a member of once. Lewisburg has a Masonic Lodge on Front Street. Meetings are the Second Tuesday, so it isn't too likely that he was there for a lodge meeting.

Thanks!!! Well the hall would be a great place for a secret meeting though.:biggrin:

[J. J. in Phila]

Thanks!!! Well the hall would be a great place for a secret meeting though.:biggrin:

Not really. They tend to be locked when not in use and they are in a public place. Some are rented out for weddings and the like.

[sherrijean981]

are you looking at the third photo?


Yes, and both men are tall, good looking but in different ways. I don't see any comparison between the two men. Sorry.

[Politigal]

Just another interesting "odds & ends" item....IMO

Assistant District Attorney Mark Smith went to school at:

Ohio Northern University - Ada, OH (about 150 mi from Cleveland)

and

Indiana University of PA - Indiana, PA (about 175 mi from Cleveland)

Whaddya wanna bet that *he* is a Cleveland Indians fan???

[Politigal]

and no...I do not think that Mark Smith was in Wilkes-Barre.

I don't think Gricar was in Wilkes-Barre either.

[J. J. in Phila]

Just another interesting "odds & ends" item....IMO

Assistant District Attorney Mark Smith went to school at:

Ohio Northern University - Ada, OH (about 150 mi from Cleveland)

and

Indiana University of PA - Indiana, PA (about 175 mi from Cleveland)

Whaddya wanna bet that *he* is a Cleveland Indians fan???

Considering Indiana is east of Pittsburgh, and the Johnstown/Altoona/State College media markets, though the Pittsburgh media market overlaps. It isn't a Cleveland connection.

Likewise, Ada, is closer to both Toledo and Columbus than to Cleveland. FT. Wayne is closer.

I'd "wanna bet" *he* isn't an Cleveland Indians fan, if he's from Indiana, PA.

[Cloudbuster]

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/jonbenet-ramsey/TCQF5AANDRV5UJPMN This mentons Brenda Condan it's weird.

http://www.geocities.com/pasec_centre_county_chapter/Minutes/PaSEC_Funding_Letter.doc

http://www.centrelaw.com/page.php?id=40

[J. J. in Phila]

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/jonbenet-ramsey/TCQF5AANDRV5UJPMN This mentons Brenda Condan it's weird.

http://www.geocities.com/pasec_centre_county_chapter/Minutes/PaSEC_Funding_Letter.doc

http://www.centrelaw.com/page.php?id=40

The Goodall article has been mentioned before; having had a guardianship situation, I can kinda understand why he wrote it.

I guy on the message board seems to tying up unrelated cases.

[Cloudbuster]

I wonder who the Gary is he is talking about?

[J. J. in Phila]

I wonder who the Gary is he is talking about?

My guess is Gary Hilton, an alleged serial killer.

[Politigal]

RE: Polygraphs

Several posters keep talking about how Patty survived a 3 hour long polygraph (and passed with flying colors.) :rolleyes:

Here's a generic polygraph procedure:

http://www.polygraphspecialist.com/faq.html#q2


* Pre-Test: The polygraph examiner will explain your legal rights and the voluntary nature of the examination. There will be a review of background information to assess your suitability for the examination. The examiner will assist you with the formulation of the questions and review how the instrument works (approximate time: 2 hours).
* In-Test: The examiner will review all the questions with you and conduct an acquaintance/demonstration test to develop a baseline of physiological responses. Several tests of the relevant issue will then be conducted with a minimum of three tests (approximate time: 40 minutes).
* Post-Test: The examiner will analyze the polygraph charts and render an opinion which will be reviewed with the client (20-30 minutes).

Note the 40 minute test section - where the examiner reviews all the questions first....

geez, what a tough test. Not.

the actual test comes out to be all of about 20 minutes. whew

Add to that....it was reported Zaccagni was present...

probably for moral support IMO.

[J. J. in Phila]

Ah, P'gal, who are these posters that discussed the length of the test? The only reference to the time, 3.5 hours, is in a news story.

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2005/07/07-19-05tdc/07-19-05dnews-01.asp

Likewise someone did refer to the test in the same article:



Tony Gricar said he thought the polygraph was emotionally draining for Fornicola.

"She clearly loved Ray very much," he said. "To be going down that path as a possible suspect could have been emotionally wrecking for anyone."



He thought it was a hard test.

[Politigal]

All polygraphs consist of 3 phases

1. Pre-test Phase
2. In-test Phase
3. Post-test Phase

#2 is the actual test time

Per my link previously posted, the first phase takes the most time of the whole process.

The actual test phase is quite short.

[J. J. in Phila]

All polygraphs consist of 3 phases

1. Pre-test Phase
2. In-test Phase
3. Post-test Phase

#2 is the actual test time

Per my link previously posted, the first phase takes the most time of the whole process.

The actual test phase is quite short.

It doesn't seem to take a lot of time to answer yes or no questions, so what's your point? It was noted that the test took 3.5 hours. I don't see anyone, other than you and TG, in the press, making an issue about the time. I'm also not sure that the post test would be within that 3.5 hours.

As long she told the truth, it shouldn't be a difficult test.

[Serendipitous1]

A summary of the investigation, to date:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrEkbIHlV1E