Daily thread 5/15 - 5/21

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by GollyGeeWhiz
So I'm reading about Arthur Barlow, the man who was excommunicated and/or exiled, who is now back in Texas trying to get custody of his 5 kids.

http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_9322072

He claims that the mother of the children, Esther Barlow, is a great mother and the children should be with her.

My question is ... so who did Esther and those children get reassigned to when Arthur was shipped out? Whoever that dude is needs to be part of the equation with regard to releasing these children to their mother (or to their father, because we know what will happen - he'll hand them right back to her since she's such a swell parent).

And I find it interesting that the kids are insisting they just want to be with their mother - even though their father might have a better chance of getting them out of state custody. According to what I've read, when a man is excommunicated and his family is reassigned, the 'ex' family is ordered to have nothing more to do with him.

(By the way, dear Arthur has another 12 children with another wife - can't tell from the story where they are located.) [/*]

Great minds GGW~~I asked the same thing about 'who' Esther and the kids got reassigned to in Texas.

I betcha there has been a lot of paper shredding and burning going on in the other FLDS compounds lately.

[walton]

Isn't Esther one the ladies interviewed shortly after the raid?

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by walton
Isn't Esther one the ladies interviewed shortly after the raid? [/*]

Aw, now ya got my mind going walton. :D

Once I finish working I'm gonna have to find those videos. I think one was Esther, the one that sat on the left side of Marilyn.

[Cat2007]

Originally posted by KatyDid


I gotta get that book this weekend. We are going on a road trip next week. I'll be wanting something to read. This sounds like a good one, especially if it covers John D Lee too.

ETA: Thanks Cat for sharing passages from the book with us. :seeya: [/*]

You're welcome. It just struck me when I read that, good Lord, not even his brothers like him.

I agree with Walton, excellent book. It is copyright 2003 (just FYI).

[Cat2007]

Originally posted by GollyGeeWhiz


Hmm. Not sure. Was she the one in the pastel prairie dress?

:biggrin: Just being a wise acre, walton.

I honestly can't tell those women apart to look at them, nor can I keep the names straight (all 4 of them).

I am totally freaked out by the sameness factor. I'm realizing that I'm much more attached to my individuality than I knew.

:eek: [/*]

So am I, GGW. I could never live that way.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by walton
Isn't Esther one the ladies interviewed shortly after the raid? [/*]

Here is an Esther in an interview with abc news.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVGK2Aa4uEk&feature=related

Esther is the one on the far right in the video. She is not the one I was thinking of in my prior post.

ETA: I take it back, it is the same woman. She was interviewed with Marilyn and Sally on Larry King.

[KatyDid]

Esther is on the far left in the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y32dtx6mvxo&feature=related

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by Cat2007


You're welcome. It just struck me when I read that, good Lord, not even his brothers like him.

I agree with Walton, excellent book. It is copyright 2003 (just FYI). [/*]

;) Thanks again Cat!

[walton]

Yes, Esther is the one with the long dress and hair worn high. j/k



Here is a picture of Esther. http://www.sltrib.com/ci_9322072

If I remember right she was one of the few women that they interviewed right after the raid. I want to say Larry King Live. I looked for the transcripts but couldn't find that one. Found April 17th but not April 16th. It was the one where they did the tour thru the compound.

But I thought this Esther had one child. A girl. :shrug:

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by walton
Yes, Esther is the one with the long dress and hair worn high. j/k



Here is a picture of Esther. http://www.sltrib.com/ci_9322072

If I remember right she was one of the few women that they interviewed right after the raid. I want to say Larry King Live. I looked for the transcripts but couldn't find that one. Found April 17th but not April 16th. It was the one where they did the tour thru the compound.

But I thought this Esther had one child. A girl. :shrug: [/*]

The Esther on Larry King had 5 or 6 kids, IIRC. I posted the YouTube of that LK show. There may be a better one on YouTube than the one I posted. Some guy is talking over the recording in the beginning.

[KatyDid]

I think it is the same one Walton. :seeya:

[Katprint]

Walton - Actually, most cross-examination questions start with, "Isn't it true that ..." Because usually the attorney doing the cross-examination already knows and can prove the truth - I like to be holding their deposition transcript rolled up slightly like I am going to hit them in the head with it if they lie to me - and any attorney who asks a question in front of a jury, should already know the answer to that question.

And I don't care how many "spiritual" marriages he had with underage girls, so long as they don't involve "carnal knowledge" aka physical/sexual contact. Unfortunately, these "spiritual" marriages are never limited to the "spirits" and always seem to progress to the temptations of the "flesh."

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by Soldiermom08


Does anybody remember when Charles Manson was arrested and the rest of his "followers" spoke of Charlie, Charlie, Charlie in the same way these women chant the same mantra over and over, and just blatantly NOT answer a simple question- how old are the girls, or what is the age in which a child can be married, and they skipped right over the question and said nobody was forced into marriage..the one in the middle, she looked like she was wearing a clown smile, but she looked like she had a little trouble spewing one or two of her lies, thought I saw a tinge of sadness and not wanting to lie, but no, I was wrong, they all WANT to be right where they are. But I feel like Jeff's has drilled into them that their children are in DANGER (from who? Why do they say that? Why doesn't someone pin them down to answer one question?) and that THEY NEED THEIR CHILDREN.
all jmo [/*]

classic brainwashing, IMO.
The one in the middle is Marilyn. She is one of Warren Jeffs wives, IIRC. The one on the right of Marilyn is Sally, who I believe is Marilyn's mother.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by Soldiermom08
Who was it that was walking to the courthouse the other day in a brown or darker color prarie dress and had sunglasses on and was carrying a cup of ?coffee? in a to-go cup. Did anybody else see her? [/*]

Missed the coffee, but have noticed lately a couple of them are wearing the dark clothes, like they are wearing mourning clothes.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by Soldiermom08


Oh, thank you for that. I lost track of who is who long ago. Sorry but they all look alike to me. And thats probably the point.
Marilyn looks like she is so meek you could knock her over just by flicking her chest. They practically cower. How many times did all of them attempt to answer a question with the same exact words? It happened more than once. ITA classic brainwashing.
Am sure Marilyn got her marching orders from Warren what to do and say, and probably some "talking points" a la BOR, lol. They seemed determined to get the word "danger" in there, too. [/*]

And notice how Sally, Marilyn's mom, had to finish many of Marilyn's answers.

My initial thought when the interview first aired was Marilyn had trouble telling the lies.

[KatyDid]

Anybody know if the hearings are still going on today? There hasn't been an update since about 3:45 pm Texas time. Yesterday, there was an end of the day update at gosanangelo.com.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by Soldiermom08


That was my impression also. I am sure she will get better with lying in time, after her first 10 or so interviews :rolleyes:

Jeffs told them all that they would be persecuted, and we would accuse them of things, etc and everything he said to them is coming to pass (in their world) which only strengthens what Jeffs told them. They are lying to protect the men. I suspect they would go to their death, or impriosonment, lying for them, too.

jmo [/*]

It just shows how cowardly the men are...hiding behind the skirts of the women they abuse.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by grammybear
I just heard on our news that a couple more fathers are making their way to take the DNA tests. My husband also asked me what are they going to do if they cannot find the biological parents of some of the 100 children unidentified. I don't know what the answer is. The mentioning upthread about the color of clothing now being worn maybe being mourning. That sent chills up my spine. I really think there is a lot more going on here then what meets the eye. I am really worried about what is going to happen. I do worry about violence. I may be all wrong in this but with having this kind of mentalitywhich has been shown before in other cases it sure makes you wonder.

Also on the news tonight it was stated the Jeffs has filed an appeal to his conviction last year in Utah. I also read in our local paper yesterday that Jeffs was on suicide watch around the first part of May. This happened right after the raids in Texas.

By the way it was in the saltlaketrib.com If you look under the polygamist section there are all kinds of stories about all of this issue.

We are only two days into the court hearings and of course one of the fathers asked for Judge Wahlam being taken off these cases and another judge said no she had followed the law.

As much as these parents and attorney's protest that this is all about religious freedom, they are going to find out this is not about religion this is about breaking the laws and abusing children. They should be ashamed of themselves for their behavior.

I think a lot of us can thank our lucky stars for the parents we were born to. Many were dysfunctional and had problems of their own but they did not sell us off at 12 and 13. Shoot my mom did not want me to date when I was 16 but that is a whole other story.

jmoo [/*]

Hiya grammybear :seeya:

About the unidentified children, they will go to permanent foster homes and be put up for adoption.

[walton]

Originally posted by Katprint
Walton - Actually, most cross-examination questions start with, "Isn't it true that ..." Because usually the attorney doing the cross-examination already knows and can prove the truth - I like to be holding their deposition transcript rolled up slightly like I am going to hit them in the head with it if they lie to me - and any attorney who asks a question in front of a jury, should already know the answer to that question.

**snipped**

Katprint
Always only my own opinions [/*]



Your post sure made me smile. Thanks.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by grammybear


Hi katydid,

Yes I am sure that is what is going to happen. It just breaks my heart that any child would be abandoned by their parents. It will be very hard for them, but in a lot of ways they will probably be better off. Having parents who choose to adopt an abanded child and love them with everything they've got is what every child needs. [/*]

Mine too grammy :(

It just shows how callous these people are and to what lengths they will go to protect their prophet and the beliefs of this cult.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by GollyGeeWhiz
Same link:



' ... laughter causes the spirit of God to leak from their bodies.'

hammer [/*]

What a miserable little man he is. :cuss:

[Charity]

Originally posted by GollyGeeWhiz
Same link:



' ... laughter causes the spirit of God to leak from their bodies.'

hammer [/*]

Wonder what type of leakage blue lights behind his Escalade caused from his body?

[spageddy]

Originally posted by KatyDid


We've been trying to figure out the 'house of hiding' reference and what that means when women and children are placed there. So far, I haven't been able to find an answer. I haven't seen an answer posted here, but I could have missed it.

As for the Cox family on the list, it looks like the person entering the information was confused about what the relationship column meant. [/*]

I can certainly understand confusion with regard to relationships,considering the polygamy, inbreeding and family dynamics.The Cox family entry sruck me as particularly pathetic. I'm guessing it's a very young mom who doesn't even understand what family relationships are, or how she fits in to the picture. It seemed sad that someone who was old enough to have an infant could be confused about what the "relationship" column meant on that form.

[KatyDid]

http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_9330823

Parents object to ban on books, Jeffs' pics
The Salt Lake Tribune
Article Last Updated: 05/21/2008 01:39:11 AM MDT

FLDS parents again objected Tuesday to Texas Child Protective Services' ban on religious literature or photographs of polygamous sect leader Warren S. Jeffs.
During one hearing, Seth Jeffs said he was told he could not mention his brother's name during visits with his children. Other parents have said their children's copies of the Book of Mormon were removed because photographs of Jeffs were taped inside.
Caseworkers also have said collections of sermons by Jeffs and other FLDS prophets need review before they are given to the children.
A CPS spokeswoman said that until DNA evidence, due in mid-June, proves Warren Jeffs is a child's biological father, they along with all FLDS children in custody will be prohibited from having his photo.
Texas rules state that children in foster care can only have pictures and talk about a convicted sex offender if that person is a parent who has not victimized them. Jeffs was convicted of rape as an accomplice in Utah for conducting a teenager's marriage.
"The problem we have is discussing him in the context of him being the prophet or his specific teachings because he is a convicted sex offender," said Marissa Gonzales, a CPS spokeswoman.

[Rainkiss]

Hm, tough call... trampling on religious freedom, or censorship, or simple shielding children from the words of a convicted sex offender. Gonna have to think on that one for awhile, but my first impression is that it's a good thing. The law was in place (I believe) for foster children before this happened, so it's not directed at the faith specifically. Makes sense.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by Rainkiss
Hm, tough call... trampling on religious freedom, or censorship, or simple shielding children from the words of a convicted sex offender. Gonna have to think on that one for awhile, but my first impression is that it's a good thing. The law was in place (I believe) for foster children before this happened, so it's not directed at the faith specifically. Makes sense. [/*]

Another thing, how do they define 'victimized'?

Is brainwashing victimizing? :shrug:

IMO, it is.

[KatyDid]

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/may/21/live-from-the-courthouse-day-3-of-the-60-day-in/

LIVE FROM THE COURTHOUSE: Day 3 of the 60-day status hearings in the YFZ Ranch child custody case
Staff reports

Wednesday, May 21, 2008

Live reports from the Tom Green County Courthouse on the third day of 60-day status hearings in the YFZ Ranch child custody case:

Courtroom A - Jennifer Rios

Child Protective Services caseworker Jennifer Kennedy testified for more than an hour this morning about the cases of the three children of Adeline Barlow Jeffs and Leroy Steed. Jeffs signed the service plan, adding her written objections to it.

San Antonio State District Judge John Specia, who was filling in for 119th District Judge Ben Woodward, reminded attorneys for the children to move their questions along because he has other cases to hear. He ultimately approved the service plan.

[KatyDid]

Shouldn't the state have a psychiatric expert or cult expert review the tapes?

I vote for a cult expert.

[withay]

Remember Rulon & Lorene Keates?

Here they are in a Today show interview 5-12 saying the question (underage marriage) doesn't apply to him because they have all BOYS.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/2113454...575095#24577612

Here's a Dateline interview.....same couple....talking about their DAUGHTER who is very attached to her mother.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwKbz_l3kTE

Lying for the Lord or an honest mistake?.....you decide.



Originally posted by Devotion


WOW.....What a bunch of BS...
They still think we're all stupid and fall for anything they say.
This is PROOF the males and females are LYING, LYING, LYING.

Here the same COUPLE is on the Today show interview 5-12, saying the question (underage marriage) doesn't apply to him,
because THEY HAVE ALL BOYS!

Here's a Dateline interview.....with the SAME COUPLE....
talking about their DAUGHTER who is very attached to her mother.....Hmmmmm!

IMO..the truth isn't IN these people, they have been born and bred to LIE FOR THE LORD....just saying what ever it takes to get their "virgins" and "worker bee's back", to satisfy the old men and their bank accounts...jmo

Something just occurred to me; maybe the reason the Keates did not claim Natalie is because she is one of the children who were "placed" on the ranch and she is not their biological daughter at all! Since they know the DNA will show that, they thought they would just deny her.

[Roux]

Originally posted by KatyDid
Shouldn't the state have a psychiatric expert or cult expert review the tapes?

I vote for a cult expert. [/*]

I agree on a cult expert.

It's troublesome and been mulling over all morning those things GollyGee posted about what Jeffs is alleged to have denied: no laughing; no water sports; no internet, TV, video (not altogether bad for kids as we definitely need to limit and monitor), etc. How can those things he declared as spiritual commands but which are so stupid and ignorant be legitimate religious beliefs? How can we say those things are innocuous and if that's their belief let them have them, when they are apt to warp a child's emotions and perception of reality.

I just can't help but feel that somewhere deep inside each of us there is a kernel of truth which God has given each of us to discern right from wrong and no matter how much brainwashing, one should be able to know that Warren Jeffs is no true prophet. BTW it was interesting that Flora said on NG the other night that she thought the mothers should be held accountable as well. Does that indicate she doesn't buy the brainwashing defense?

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by withay
Remember Rulon & Lorene Keates?

Here they are in a Today show interview 5-12 saying the question (underage marriage) doesn't apply to him because they have all BOYS.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/2113454...575095#24577612

Here's a Dateline interview.....same couple....talking about their DAUGHTER who is very attached to her mother.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwKbz_l3kTE

Lying for the Lord or an honest mistake?.....you decide.





Something just occurred to me; maybe the reason the Keates did not claim Natalie is because she is one of the children who were "placed" on the ranch and she is not their biological daughter at all! Since they know the DNA will show that, they thought they would just deny her. [/*]

:eek: You may be on to something there.

All the more reason for CPS and the judges to be ABSOLUTELY sure these children are biological children.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by Roux


I agree on a cult expert.

It's troublesome and been mulling over all morning those things GollyGee posted about what Jeffs is alleged to have denied: no laughing; no water sports; no internet, TV, video (not altogether bad for kids as we definitely need to limit and monitor), etc. How can those things he declared as spiritual commands but which are so stupid and ignorant be legitimate religious beliefs? How can we say those things are innocuous and if that's their belief let them have them, when they are apt to warp a child's emotions and perception of reality.

I just can't help but feel that somewhere deep inside each of us there is a kernel of truth which God has given each of us to discern right from wrong and no matter how much brainwashing, one should be able to know that Warren Jeffs is no true prophet. BTW it was interesting that Flora said on NG the other night that she thought the mothers should be held accountable as well. Does that indicate she doesn't buy the brainwashing defense? [/*]

I believe that too Roux...about God giving us the born intuition to understand when somthing isn't right. The fact that some of the women escaped when their God-given intuition told them 'it wasn't right' is even more proof, IMO.

[KatyDid]

Latest court room update:

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/may/21/live-from-the-courthouse-day-3-of-the-60-day-in/

Courtroom C - Paul A. Anthony

The attorney for a "wife" of Warren Jeffs said she is willing to reject life on the YFZ Ranch and her jailed husband's alleged tenet of "marrying" girls whenever they're physically ready to produce children.

Local attorney Tim Edwards said Annette Jeffs has submitted in writing a pledge to 51st District Judge Barbara Walther that she will not allow any of her young girls to marry before they turn 18.

She also has found a place to live in San Antonio and will not return to the ranch, Edwards said.

The state's Child Protective Services agency filed a notice of non-suit on a seventh woman, acknowledging that she is an adult, and state attorneys said they plan to file another notice on a boy who turned 18 last month.

:eek:

If this woman's statements hold true, then one girl/woman has been saved from the grips of Warren Jeffs and this cult.

[cloe23]

Originally posted by KatyDid
Latest court room update:

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/may/21/live-from-the-courthouse-day-3-of-the-60-day-in/

Courtroom C - Paul A. Anthony

The attorney for a "wife" of Warren Jeffs said she is willing to reject life on the YFZ Ranch and her jailed husband's alleged tenet of "marrying" girls whenever they're physically ready to produce children.

Local attorney Tim Edwards said Annette Jeffs has submitted in writing a pledge to 51st District Judge Barbara Walther that she will not allow any of her young girls to marry before they turn 18.

She also has found a place to live in San Antonio and will not return to the ranch, Edwards said.

The state's Child Protective Services agency filed a notice of non-suit on a seventh woman, acknowledging that she is an adult, and state attorneys said they plan to file another notice on a boy who turned 18 last month.

:eek:

If this woman's statements hold true, then one girl/woman has been saved from the grips of Warren Jeffs and this cult. [/*]

Hi KatyDid:seeya:
I have not been following this form only the news. So sorry if this has been discussed before.
OT- I am following the Mason case, the suspected bodies buried at the ranch in Death Valley, CA.
From the sounds of all the technology available to LE to locate cadavers why or has TX began to search the LDS compound for bodies? IMO once the bodies are found then many of the followers and caring couples will leave and reunite with their children. AJMO
Cloe

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by cloe23


Hi KatyDid:seeya:
I have not been following this form only the news. So sorry if this has been discussed before.
OT- I am following the Mason case, the suspected bodies buried at the ranch in Death Valley, CA.
From the sounds of all the technology available to LE to locate cadavers why or has TX began to search the LDS compound for bodies? IMO once the bodies are found then many of the followers and caring couples will leave and reunite with their children. AJMO
Cloe [/*]

HIYA cloe :seeya:
I've missed posting with you.

My thought on that is...the FLDS built a crematorium on the site. My thinking is, if they have bodies to dispose of, they would be cremated. They probably started the practice of cremation after all the controversy over the large number of babies buried at the Utah compound.

[KatyDid]

Another court room update:

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/may/21/live-from-the-courthouse-day-3-of-the-60-day-in/

Staff reports

Originally published 10:30 a.m., May 21, 2008
Updated 12:16 p.m., May 21, 2008

Courtroom * - Matt Phinney

Arguments in Courtoom * this morning followed a similar pattern as Day Three of CPS status hearings continued at the Tom Green County Courthouse.

Louanna Jessop appeared before 391st District Judge Tom Gossett, but the children's father, Leroy Steed, was not there, and CPS workers have not been able to contact him.

Like dozens of lawyers before him, the attorney representing Louanna Jessop said the service plan was too vague and didn't try to fit Jessop's family specifically.

The couple has seven children, and Gossett approved the service plan.

The plan's purpose is to get to know Jessop, said CPS worker Juan Martinez.

"Then it will be more individualized," he said.

Under the plan, parents have to undergo parenting classes to help them recognize and protect their children from physical and emotional abuse and neglect. Jessop also must undergo psychological evaluations to determine her personality and whether she "needs more help."


This confirms the mothers will have to work closely with CPS and ungergo psych evals to determine their ability to protect their children.

More at the link.

[Roux]

I didn't understand Willie's comment about 500 to 600 voter registration cards. Are there 500 to 600 unregistered Texas FLDS and he's threatening the judges will be voted out of office?

[cloe23]

Originally posted by KatyDid


HIYA cloe :seeya:
I've missed posting with you.

My thought on that is...the FLDS built a crematorium on the site. My thinking is, if they have bodies to dispose of, they would be cremated. They probably started the practice of cremation after all the controversy over the large number of babies buried at the Utah compound. [/*]

TY.Cloe:)

[Mimi428]

Just got an email from the Austin American Statesman - supposedly CPS is back at the ranch, looking for more children. Don't know if this has been verified or not, so take this with a grain of salt.

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/politics/entries/2008/05/21/flds_leader_cps_at_ranch_again.html

AAS is a subscription site. You don't have to pay, but you do have to give info to be registered. Just so ya know. . .

SAN ANGELO — Child Protective Services workers may have returned to the ranch in West Texas where they removed more than 460 children amid charges of widespread sexual abuse early last month.

“We have heard that CPS is down at the ranch,” said Rod Parker, a spokesman for the sect, the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by Roux
I didn't understand Willie's comment about 500 to 600 voter registration cards. Are there 500 to 600 unregistered Texas FLDS and he's threatening the judges will be voted out of office? [/*]

Yes. IMO, he has called them all out & has said that he will do to that county what has been done in other states, like AZ & UT - if members of the FLDS make up the majority of the residents of any community, be it local or county - they can run & elect their OWN candidates.

I believe Walton may still have a bunch of old links about this. I recall reading about this sort of thing a couple of years ago. It was one of the reasons the Short Creek community was so difficult to break down - the FLDS made sure every elected 'official' was one of them.

JMO

[xray ra]

Originally posted by Roux
I didn't understand Willie's comment about 500 to 600 voter registration cards. Are there 500 to 600 unregistered Texas FLDS and he's threatening the judges will be voted out of office? [/*]

BINGO!!!!

IMO, that has been and is still a big problem in many jurisdictions.
I have lived in many states from coast to coast and always found it interesting that some places ELECT their judges and in some places Judges are appointed.

As the branch of government that is charged with the interpretation of the laws, I have always felt that Judges should not be polititians.
I believe that has left many elected judges owing favors to their contributors and the people that can influence votes.
VERY BAD :no: IMO

I want to know the name of the judge that would not sign a search order for Warren Jeffs' DNA in respect to the case of unknown children in Texas. You know that a request for that DNA was made by someone prior to these hearings.
Why in the world has no LE agency been able to obtain his DNA?

Questions people want to know!!!!
:shrug: :

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by Roux
I didn't understand Willie's comment about 500 to 600 voter registration cards. Are there 500 to 600 unregistered Texas FLDS and he's threatening the judges will be voted out of office? [/*]

LOLOLOL!!! That guy is such a blow hard!!! He actually BELIEVES the FLDS can control Texas government like they have Utah and Arizona.

A lot of sound and fury signifying nothing.

The fact he thinks 500-600 FLDS votes could alter the elected officials is absurd.

Now, my question is...where are these 500-600 FLDS people who are eligible to vote and hold these elected offices.

It is absurd...almost as absurd as Willie Jessop himself.

:biggrin: my thinking on it

[KatyDid]

http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy360.html

In 2005 registered voters totaled 1699.

Again, where are these FLDS members from this Texas county that total 500-600?

Jessop is asking for a legal fight, one he can't win, IMO.

FLDS is NOT in control in Eldorado, TX.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by KatyDid


LOLOLOL!!! That guy is such a blow hard!!! He actually BELIEVES the FLDS can control Texas government like they have Utah and Arizona.
[/*]

When the information became better known that the property in Eldorado had been purchased by the FLDS, there was considerable concern that something like that would be tried - that they would register to vote en masse - & be able to significantly affect county & local elections.

We know now that they did not choose to do that, but I recall reading a long article (I think it may have been in the Austin Chronicle) a couple of years ago covering that very concern.

JMO

[xray ra]

But on the other hand Katy, I read on one of the links that the FDLS in Eldorado, Texas, put lots of money (close to 1,000,000$) into the local economy. By buying building supplies, equipment, cars, and all other life essentials.
All small communities are stuggling in today's economy and if their tax and revenue basis are threatened, no telling how local politians, (including congressmen and judges) will be effected!! :mad:

[Mimi428]

This website has voter registration stats for Schleicher county - but the last year it has info for is 2004.

In 2004 there were 1900 registered voters. Of those voters, 1329 voted (I am guessing they are using a major general election to get that stat, not a local one).

Now let's say the FLDS decides to move a bunch of adults to the Eldorado compound. If they registered 500 voters, that would have a VERY large affect on their local elections.

JMO

http://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/historical/schleicher.shtml

[xray ra]

"Another FLDS-linked company, Paragon, was hit with a permanent injunction a few weeks ago by a federal judge. It was for "repeatedly and willfully" violating child labor laws. We encountered a Paragon crew last week and saw no children. But the workers suddenly stopped and drove away as soon as they saw our camera"

This is from the links thread, an article from 2/2008 , in a Utah paper.
(Sorry, I don't know how to post a link and a quote at the same time)hammer

FGS, what about the word "permanent" don't they get?

Also, interesting that the injuction was filed by a FEDERAL Judge!!

Boy, does anyone else wish we had a lawyer posting here? Or is Katydid a lawyer?:)

I know we have some social workers and foster parents as well as a WONDERFUL Mormon woman (gmy) and myself as well as Lyndawitha Y and warhorse are able to give medical opinions.

Any attys out there?

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by xray ra
But on the other hand Katy, I read on one of the links that the FDLS in Eldorado, Texas, put lots of money (close to 1,000,000$) into the local economy. By buying building supplies, equipment, cars, and all other life essentials.
All small communities are stuggling in today's economy and if their tax and revenue basis are threatened, no telling how local politians, (including congressmen and judges) will be effected!! :mad: [/*]

Well, if the residents and business owners of the community wish to sell their soul to the devil, then so be it.

I would be shocked if they chose that route after all the information that has come forward about the abuses of this cult.

How many people can live with the fact that they support a child molesting cult because they want the money?

I sure hope I never meet any of them. ;)

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by Mimi428
This website has voter registration stats for Schleicher county - but the last year it has info for is 2004.

In 2004 there were 1900 registered voters. Of those voters, 1329 voted (I am guessing they are using a major general election to get that stat, not a local one).

Now let's say the FLDS decides to move a bunch of adults to the Eldorado compound. If they registered 500 voters, that would have a VERY large affect on their local elections.

JMO

http://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/historical/schleicher.shtml [/*]

Yeppers, it would.

Does the FLDS have that many of age voters who are not actively practicing polygamy, sexually abusing young girls, and sending their underage boys to work for FLDS held companies?

Me, just being fascitious :punch:

Hopefully the gov can stop these people before they ever get a strong hold. If the men and women have to comply over a period of time with evaluations to keep their children, I think they will fold.

Tis an election year this year. I am curious to see what develops.

[Roux]

Originally posted by Mimi428
This website has voter registration stats for Schleicher county - but the last year it has info for is 2004.

In 2004 there were 1900 registered voters. Of those voters, 1329 voted (I am guessing they are using a major general election to get that stat, not a local one).

Now let's say the FLDS decides to move a bunch of adults to the Eldorado compound. If they registered 500 voters, that would have a VERY large affect on their local elections.

JMO

http://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/historical/schleicher.shtml [/*]

There's no doubt in my mind that they would try to perpetrate voter fraud if they thought it was necessary to obtain their desired result.

Hard to say what could happen in a sparsely populated, remote county but Texas is not Utah and I don't think Willie wants to start throwiing his considerable girth around some good ole Texas boys.

[Roux]

Originally posted by xray ra
But on the other hand Katy, I read on one of the links that the FDLS in Eldorado, Texas, put lots of money (close to 1,000,000$) into the local economy. By buying building supplies, equipment, cars, and all other life essentials.
All small communities are stuggling in today's economy and if their tax and revenue basis are threatened, no telling how local politians, (including congressmen and judges) will be effected!! :mad: [/*]

I posted a question yesterday but no one commented on it, i.e., why couldn't the FLDS be prosecuted under RICO and their assets confiscated? Hit 'em in the pocketbook and much of their power and influence will be diminished.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by Roux


There's no doubt in my mind that they would try to perpetrate voter fraud if they thought it was necessary to obtain their desired result.

Hard to say what could happen in a sparsely populated, remote county but Texas is not Utah and I don't think Willie wants to start throwiing his considerable girth around some good ole Texas boys. [/*]

:D oh, wouldn't I love to see that.

I am born and raised in Texas. You're right...Texan's are not frightened by the likes of Willie Jessop.

[Roux]

Originally posted by KatyDid


:D oh, wouldn't I love to see that.

I am born and raised in Texas. You're right...Texan's are not frightened by the likes of Willie Jessop. [/*]

I've only lived here 3-1/2 yrs but I knew of the expression Don't Mess with Texas long before I moved here!

[evalles]

Originally posted by KatyDid


Yeppers, it would.

Does the FLDS have that many of age voters who are not actively practicing polygamy, sexually abusing young girls, and sending their underage boys to work for FLDS held companies?

Me, just being fascitious :punch:

Hopefully the gov can stop these people before they ever get a strong hold. If the men and women have to comply over a period of time with evaluations to keep their children, I think they will fold.

Tis an election year this year. I am curious to see what develops. [/*]

The governor can't stop them from voting.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by GollyGeeWhiz


Beautifully stated, Roux.

WARNING: RANT AHEAD!

IMO, Warren Jeffs is one of the most dangerous men to rule a cult, and those who follow him so obediently are equally as scary.

The more I read about the entire group, the more strongly I feel that those children should remain in someone else's custody indefinitely -- especially when I hear that the FLDS parents are fighting to get or keep images of Jeffs and his voice recordings front-and-center in their children's lives even while they're in foster care.

These people are going to blindly adhere to Jeffs teachings and commands, no matter what. That's clear enough. The pervert is an incarcerated convicted felon, and even now that their children have been removed by the state of Texas, they STILL insist the kids be subjected to the face and voice and brainwashing of their filthy prophet.

I don't happen to agree with most here that the polygamy would be okay as long as the children weren't involved. I believe the FLDS practice of polygamy was invented for no other reason than as the result of some horny prophet's 'revelation' - and since prophets exercise complete control, old horny dude could just wave his revelation wand (pun intended) and it became law for this group.

FLDS polygamy is nothing more 'sacred' than a way for the men to have lots of sex with different, ever younger partners, and it's a way to very effectively and efficiently control the women in the cult. Even if they never laid hands on a teenage girl under 18, IMO, this is absolutely NO environment in which children - and so many of them - should be raised.

From all the reading I've done, most of the 'revelations' of these prophets are entirely self-serving and/or about keeping tight control on the followers.

Enter a true whack job prophet like Jeffs, and the 'revelations' get wilder and wilder - such as the one that outlaws laughing. And all the dutiful FLDS parents just went for it - swallowed it whole. Those people cannot, in my opinion, be trusted to raise children. [/*]

:D :beer: Rant On GGW!

[xray ra]

:lol:

Katydid::::

Katprint::::::

Katmandu?

Sorry, I'm confused. But I still love Katydid's posts :seeya:

And you too GGW:)

[KatyDid]

Check this out:

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_9332171

Texas lawmaker wants FLDS to pay for the raid, child care

The Associated Press
Article Last Updated: 05/21/2008 06:09:06 AM MDT

Texas state lawmakers have begun adding up the costs related to the YFZ Ranch raid and figuring out where to find the $30 million the case is expected to cost over the next year.
It will cost about $1.7 million a month to care for the roughly 450 children in state custody, according to Health and Human Services Executive Commissioner Albert Hawkins.
The initial raid cost an estimated $5.3 million, mostly in travel to the isolated Schleicher County ranch and employee overtime during the weeklong search. The state also paid for buses, building and equipment rental and fuel.
At least $2.2 million will be needed to help the local courts handle legal proceedings for the children.
One lawmaker on the Senate Finance Committee questioned whether the state could make the adults left behind on the ranch - valued at $20.5 million - foot the bill.
"I would encourage you to aggressively pursue any of those assets to fund this," said Republican Sen. Bob Deuell of Greenville.



Last sentence...aggressively pursue FLDS assets...
Can they confiscate and sell the ranch?

Hmmmm :tongue:

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by xray ra
:lol:

Katydid::::

Katprint::::::

Katmandu?

Sorry, I'm confused. But I still love Katydid's posts :seeya:

And you too GGW:) [/*]


Aw, thanks xray

[Cat2007]

Originally posted by Mimi428


Yes. IMO, he has called them all out & has said that he will do to that county what has been done in other states, like AZ & UT - if members of the FLDS make up the majority of the residents of any community, be it local or county - they can run & elect their OWN candidates.

I believe Walton may still have a bunch of old links about this. I recall reading about this sort of thing a couple of years ago. It was one of the reasons the Short Creek community was so difficult to break down - the FLDS made sure every elected 'official' was one of them.

JMO [/*]

Mimi, as early as Nauvoo, Joseph Smith was mayor. They learned to run things real fast.

[KatyDid]

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/may/21/cps-looks-at-whether-more-children-are-on-sects/

CPS seeks access to polygamist ranch to search for more children
By Paul A. Anthony (Contact)
Originally published 01:15 p.m., May 21, 2008
Updated 02:16 p.m., May 21, 2008

ELDORADO - The state's Child Protective Services agency returned this morning to Schleicher County, responding to reports that additional children still live on the YFZ Ranch.

A spokesman for parents in the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, which owns the ranch, said a ranch guard turned CPS employees away from the gate after they couldn't produce a search warrant.

"We have received information about children who may be living at the YFZ Ranch," CPS spokeswoman Marleigh Meisner said, declining any comment beyond a short statement. "This morning, accompanied by law enforcement, we went to the ranch and made initial inquiries. We are conferring with law enforcement."





More at the link.

[Cat2007]

"I would encourage you to aggressively pursue any of those assets to fund this," said Republican Sen. Bob Deuell of Greenville.

Katydid, I hope so, I hope so. I hope they get a search warrant to find any other children that may be there, also.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by Cat2007
"I would encourage you to aggressively pursue any of those assets to fund this," said Republican Sen. Bob Deuell of Greenville.

Katydid, I hope so, I hope so. I hope they get a search warrant to find any other children that may be there, also. [/*]

:beer: ME TOO FRIEND!!

[emdragon]

I always thought CPS didn't need a search warrant to go into a home and check on the children, since they are not LE,I'm guessing that is misconception after all.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by GollyGeeWhiz


My guess is that if there were still kids at the compound, there weren't any about 10 minutes after CPS left today.

Wonder what or who tipped CPS off? Seems like either there's a mole inside the compound, or someone is watching the place ... from the air?

:confused: [/*]

That was my thought too. It sounded like maybe somebody snitched. I hope LE is keeping a close eye on the compound and who comes and goes.