Daily Thread 5/12, 5/13, 5/14

[Rainkiss]

Moving back over from the Mother's Day board, welcome back!

[KatyDid]

I'm watching Today Show interview two sets of FLDS parents whose children were taken.

The men sound like they have a Canadian accent.

[lotty]

Has anyone seen this yet?

http://www.truthwillprevail.org/

Another FLDS website.

[Rainkiss]

Originally posted by KatyDid
I'm watching Today Show interview two sets of FLDS parents whose children were taken.

The men sound like they have a Canadian accent. [/*]

Possible, I believe the FLDS is stating that citizens of Canada and Utah were at the compound and were taken. Identity is still pretty up in the air, though.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by Rainkiss


Possible, I believe the FLDS is stating that citizens of Canada and Utah were at the compound and were taken. Identity is still pretty up in the air, though. [/*]

Has Canada been silent about these citizens? Maybe they are saying good riddance.

[warhorse46]

Originally posted by KatyDid


Has Canada been silent about these citizens? Maybe they are saying good riddance. [/*]


I have read that there are some pretty large compounds in Canada. During the Warren Jeffs trial they talked about sending unruly members up there as punishment sometimes.

[warhorse46]

Originally posted by Rainkiss


Possible, I believe the FLDS is stating that citizens of Canada and Utah were at the compound and were taken. Identity is still pretty up in the air, though. [/*]


I think it is going to take months & months to match children to parents, maybe even years if the adults keep setting up road blocks.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Originally posted by warhorse46



I think it is going to take months & months to match children to parents, maybe even years if the adults keep setting up road blocks. [/*]

ITA..It's like the "Shell Game" only using women, Children, locations and yes even countries to hide their agenda..it is amazing that a handful of men can hold so much power over so many..Baffling outsiders is just what they have done for generations..One only has to look to the likes of Jim Jones and other cults (Sects) throughout the world!

I truly hope they unravel their web of deceit, one layer at a time, like peeling an onion..including all that stench!

LMS:mad:

[Lyndawitha"Y]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult




[edit] *.I.T.E.
Steven Alan Hassan, former member of the Unification chruch, and now an exit counselor and mental health counselor, has developed his own model, the BITE Model, to determine how destructive mind control can be understood in terms of four basic components, which form the acronym BITE:

Behavior Control
Information Control
Thought Control
Emotional Control
It is important to understand that destructive mind control can be determined when the overall effect of these four components promotes dependency and obedience to some leader or cause. It is not necessary for every single item on the list to be present. Mind controlled cult members can live in their own apartments, have nine-to-five jobs, be married with children, and still be unable to think for themselves and act independently.[29]

I took a portion from the link I posted about which in a nutshell describes the FLDS in this case at hand..unfortunately the Jeff's and Jessops of this world are not alone in this activity..but they simply must be dealt with and exposed for their devient agenda.
I for one just can't swallow that bitter pill they are trying to force on those outside of their CONTROLLED ENVIORNMENT1

LMS

:cuss:

[Rainkiss]

Originally posted by Lyndawitha"Y


ITA..It's like the "Shell Game" only using women, Children, locations and yes even countries to hide their agenda..it is amazing that a handful of men can hold so much power over so many..Baffling outsiders is just what they have done for generations..One only has to look to the likes of Jim Jones and other cults (Sects) throughout the world!

I truly hope they unravel their web of deceit, one layer at a time, like peeling an onion..including all that stench!

LMS:mad: [/*]

Well, DNA testing should start nailing things down. I'm sure most, if not all, of the men who had underage "brides" are already moving to hide from Texas authorities.

[Rainkiss]

Originally posted by KatyDid


Has Canada been silent about these citizens? Maybe they are saying good riddance. [/*]

I haven't heard them say anything... I did find this.

WordWide Religious News Site (http://www.wwrn.org/article.php?idd=28492&con=5&sec=26)

A Globe and Mail investigation last week discovered that a 17-year-old girl from Bountiful was among a group of 463 children and teenagers under 18 years old who were apprehended during the Texas raid on April. 3. Authorities say they found at the compound indications of sexual abuse and a pervasive pattern of grooming girls for underage sex with older men.

The Canadian girl's parents have said their daughter was at the Texas compound to visit her grandmother. Former FLDS women said in interviews the sect regularly sends young girls across the border, in both directions, for religious marriages to older men. The men are encouraged in the religion to have at least three wives. Former members say the movement of women across the border is akin to trafficking of young girls for sexual purposes.

[not.another]

Here we go.....


http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/05/12/flds.letter/index.html

I wonder how Mr. Bush will respond?

[juliekan]

I'm guessing he will refer this to whoever he has tracking this case. I bet he doesn't want to say a word!

[juliekan]

www.rickross.com/reference/yahweh/yahweh42.html

Test case for Texas anti-polygamy laws
Leader of Yahweh sect in Texas arrested for bigamy, breaking child labor laws, and aggravated assault of his 14 yo stepdaughter who he planned to make his wife

[evalles]

Polygamist sect work takes toll on social workers

http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/05/08/0508stress.html

These workers are used to going into homes where things are really bad and feeling good about moving children from risk and danger," Hansen said. "This situation is completely different. To look at the mothers and children, you would see love and affection and bonds, plus children who appear to be in good physical condition. It was wrenching to pull children away from their mothers."
Secrest says she is troubled by what she sees as misconceptions about the FLDS mothers.

They're not brainwashed, she says. They're not zombies. Each woman has her own personality. Some are funny. Some are quiet. All seem strong and independent.

[evalles]

Texas child welfare attorneys say children were removed from the YFZ Ranch and should not return there because its residents live as one big family and all have the same dangerous belief system.


I thought they were removed for abuse, not their beliefs.

http://trla.wordpress.com/2008/05/10/deseret-news-texas-says-all-yfz-kids-at-risk/

[dsmith]

Originally posted by evalles
Texas child welfare attorneys say children were removed from the YFZ Ranch and should not return there because its residents live as one big family and all have the same dangerous belief system.

I thought they were removed for abuse, not their beliefs.

http://trla.wordpress.com/2008/05/10/deseret-news-texas-says-all-yfz-kids-at-risk/ [/*]

also from the same link

The new filing refers the appeals court to testimony from child psychiatrist Bruce Perry, who described an "unhealthy" belief that it's OK to have sex with and marry young women. "This pervasive practice and belief creates an environment that develops people who have a high potential of replicating sexual abuse of young children as a part of their belief system," the court document states.

"Part of the danger to the boys is that their belief system requires that they follow the prophet," it also stated

As for possible temporary restraining orders against men at the ranch, DFPS says that wasn't practical. "How could the department have identified the alleged perpetrator or perpetrators when the evidence demonstrated that the entire male and female population at the YFZ Ranch had been enculturated into the belief that underage marriage was sacrosanct?"

[evalles]

Originally posted by dsmith


also from the same link

The new filing refers the appeals court to testimony from child psychiatrist Bruce Perry, who described an "unhealthy" belief that it's OK to have sex with and marry young women. "This pervasive practice and belief creates an environment that develops people who have a high potential of replicating sexual abuse of young children as a part of their belief system," the court document states.

"Part of the danger to the boys is that their belief system requires that they follow the prophet," it also stated

As for possible temporary restraining orders against men at the ranch, DFPS says that wasn't practical. "How could the department have identified the alleged perpetrator or perpetrators when the evidence demonstrated that the entire male and female population at the YFZ Ranch had been enculturated into the belief that underage marriage was sacrosanct?" [/*]

Is this the same expert witness who said he obtained his knowlege of the FLDS from the media ?

What evidence ? The opinions of the DFPS ?

[evalles]

This is who is in charge of the FLDS kids. I certainly don't feel better.


Salt Lake Tribune reports that Carey Cockerell, commissioner of TX Department of Family and Protective Services, claimed FLDS ‘child abuse’ as he testified to the TX Senate Committee on Health and Human Services

Existing Sexual Abuse Suit Pending Against Commissioner Cockerell of TX DFPS


http://www.flds.ws/tag/babies/

Children claim repeated sex abuse
They were punished for reporting the abuse.

Besides administrators at Nixon and HHS officials in Washington and South Texas, the suit accuses state officials of negligence. Specifically named are Carey Cockerell, Dianna Spiser and Joyce James, the top bosses at the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA021608.01*.immig-childabuse.3689173.html

[dsmith]

Originally posted by evalles


Is this the same expert witness who said he obtained his knowlege of the FLDS from the media ?

What evidence ? The opinions of the DFPS ? [/*]

here is some info on Dr Perry so go to this link and read

http://www.childtrauma.org/CTAMATERIALS/sexual_abuse.asp

the only problem with leaving the children with the mother/wife is that they also have the same belief as the men

no matter how you slice it, it is still child abuse

[Details]

Originally posted by evalles
Texas child welfare attorneys say children were removed from the YFZ Ranch and should not return there because its residents live as one big family and all have the same dangerous belief system.


I thought they were removed for abuse, not their beliefs.

http://trla.wordpress.com/2008/05/10/deseret-news-texas-says-all-yfz-kids-at-risk/ [/*]The dangerous belief is that child abuse is OK. So, in this case, the belief and the abuse are the exact same thing.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Originally posted by Details
The dangerous belief is that child abuse is OK. So, in this case, the belief and the abuse are the exact same thing. [/*]


There you go..ITA..What ever happened to the therories of :
"Better Safe than Sorry"..

and for those out there who want to quote " Innocent until proven guilty"..I'll just say..no one is at this point charged with anything..only suspect!

LMS:punch:

[evalles]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Details
The dangerous belief is that child abuse is OK. So, in this case, the belief and the abuse are the exact same thing. [/*][/QUOTE


Funny that witnesses that were actually with the families disagree.


They weren't abused but the parents believe in abuse ??
Doesn't make sense.
They're not even providing evidence of abuse.
So it's not the same thing.

[evalles]

Originally posted by dsmith


here is some info on Dr Perry so go to this link and read

http://www.childtrauma.org/CTAMATERIALS/sexual_abuse.asp

the only problem with leaving the children with the mother/wife is that they also have the same belief as the men

no matter how you slice it, it is still child abuse [/*]

And yet, the CPS physician testified that the children were healthy and well taken care of.
I'll take medical science over psycho science any day.

[Details]

Evidence of abuse has been provided - physical evidence, documentation from the cult of the abuse, statements from the children and cult members, testimony in court cases - the evidence of the abuse has been thouroughly documented.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by GollyGeeWhiz


Unless it involves the need for vaccinations, apparently. [/*]

:lol: That cracked me up GGW!

[walton]

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_9235389

The White House has not received a letter from those seeking help in the aftermath of the polygamous sect raid in Texas despite comments by an FLDS member that he gave one to "presidential staffers" at Bush's Crawford ranch.




I can not stop smiling.

[Details]

And I'm sure the White House couldn't care less that the letter didn't reach them. Especially not from pedophile supporting wedding crashers.

[Rainkiss]

Originally posted by walton
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_9235389

The White House has not received a letter from those seeking help in the aftermath of the polygamous sect raid in Texas despite comments by an FLDS member that he gave one to "presidential staffers" at Bush's Crawford ranch.




I can not stop smiling. [/*]

Gotta wonder if he even was there, or just posted the thing on the internet, made a press statement, and never even left home.

[Details]

I think that's quite likely. Pretend you got to talk to a presidential staffer or such - because no way are you going to get even close to that wedding in real life.

[walton]

Either way it works. :D

[Rainkiss]

Originally posted by Details
I think that's quite likely. Pretend you got to talk to a presidential staffer or such - because no way are you going to get even close to that wedding in real life. [/*]

Yah, the article mentioned that reporters with White House clearance and credentials weren't even allowed near the place. I could buy maybe he got close enough to get stopped, and handed the letter over, but the article also says that the Secret Service wouldn't accept it... And, with all the anthrax scares, I doubt I'd want to take something like that from random guys driving around, either.

[walton]

With the letter all over the internet, newspapers, radio and tv, you would think that our President would 1. make a comment or 2. Have someone else make a comment on the Biggest Raid since Waco. Something of which he has not done since this started.

How many other stories involve govt. officials moving in on a Ranch to pull out over 500 people?

The Texas Rangers? Big Iron Machines that protect 12 people? Scores of LE? Media? Something that involves 3 states maybe 3 countries?


Everyone has noticed but the White House and those running for office.


Now watch the shuffle.

[Rainkiss]

Originally posted by walton
With the letter all over the internet, newspapers, radio and tv, you would think that our President would 1. make a comment or 2. Have someone else make a comment on the Biggest Raid since Waco. Something of which he has not done since this started.

How many other stories involve govt. officials moving in on a Ranch to pull out over 500 people?

The Texas Rangers? Big Iron Machines that protect 12 people? Scores of LE? Media? Something that involves 3 states maybe 3 countries?


Everyone has noticed but the White House and those running for office.


Now watch the shuffle. [/*]

Too touchy an issue. If any of the candidates touch this one, they'll get blasted right out of the election. If you think CPS did the right thing, you're anti-family rights. If you think they were wrong, you're condoning child molestation. Unless any of them have a better idea on how it could have been handled, you won't hear it discussed unless it's lobbed at them out of left field at some Q&A session. (And, by the way, I asked not too long ago on the Mother's Day Board thread for anybody who had a problem with the way CPS handled the situation for a better idea on how it COULD have been handled. In case anybody missed it, I'll repeat it here, 'cause I still haven't heard an answer to that one.)

The White House DID comment. I believe what that article is stating is, essentially, "kindly keep your lies to yourself." If the President had anything else to say, he'd've said it, but he's in the same position as the candidates. His approval ratings are lower than a snake's belly as it is, he does NOT want to step in this one.

[evalles]

Originally posted by Details
Evidence of abuse has been provided - physical evidence, documentation from the cult of the abuse, statements from the children and cult members, testimony in court cases - the evidence of the abuse has been thouroughly documented. [/*]

I haven't seen any evidence. Please show me evidence, all have I"ve seen are statements made by disgruntled ex-members.

[juliekan]

http://www.foxnews.com/studiob/index.html

Dockstader Interview on Shepard Smith this afternoon.

The family states they have a 23 yo daughter that is being held by CPS even though she has a Utah DL and birth cert. They say that CPS states she is 16 years old. Willie Jessop (writer of all the letters to the state, pres etc.) They deny that underage marriage has happened at all, because underage marriage has to lack parental consent. When asked didn't Warren Jessop have "children with children" Willie again states that the girl is never underage with parental consent....Then Willie says at the end of the converstation that the girl in question is 29? Shepard says that after the interview, the groups lawyer states that if this interview is aired, no Fox affiliate will get any interview. This is after they invited him out to the compound for an interview.

So if you know Shep, the minute he was threatened, he aired the interview...Questions, why does the child in question only have Utah IDs? (Fake) Why did Willie Jessop get so angry during the interview:flamemad: and then have his lawyer threaten him?

Final note: Willie J said he didn't like Shep treating them like perverts. Shep actually was very polite and caring with the parents. Watch and see.

[evalles]

Originally posted by juliekan
http://www.foxnews.com/studiob/index.html

Dockstader Interview on Shepard Smith this afternoon.

The family states they have a 23 yo daughter that is being held by CPS even though she has a Utah DL and birth cert. They say that CPS states she is 16 years old. Willie Jessop (writer of all the letters to the state, pres etc.) They deny that underage marriage has happened at all, because underage marriage has to lack parental consent. When asked didn't Warren Jessop have "children with children" Willie again states that the girl is never underage with parental consent....Then Willie says at the end of the converstation that the girl in question is 29? Shepard says that after the interview, the groups lawyer states that if this interview is aired, no Fox affiliate will get any interview. This is after they invited him out to the compound for an interview.

So if you know Shep, the minute he was threatened, he aired the interview...Questions, why does the child in question only have Utah IDs? (Fake) Why did Willie Jessop get so angry during the interview:flamemad: and then have his lawyer threaten him?

Final note: Willie J said he didn't like Shep treating them like perverts. Shep actually was very polite and caring with the parents. Watch and see. [/*]

He was compassionate to the parents, the kids aren't together and it's going to make visits very difficult. He understood why they were upset.
What made Willie Jessop mad, I think is when Shep said he believed the state. It was more or less calling them liars.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by juliekan
http://www.foxnews.com/studiob/index.html

Dockstader Interview on Shepard Smith this afternoon.

The family states they have a 23 yo daughter that is being held by CPS even though she has a Utah DL and birth cert. They say that CPS states she is 16 years old. Willie Jessop (writer of all the letters to the state, pres etc.) They deny that underage marriage has happened at all, because underage marriage has to lack parental consent. When asked didn't Warren Jessop have "children with children" Willie again states that the girl is never underage with parental consent....Then Willie says at the end of the converstation that the girl in question is 29? Shepard says that after the interview, the groups lawyer states that if this interview is aired, no Fox affiliate will get any interview. This is after they invited him out to the compound for an interview.

So if you know Shep, the minute he was threatened, he aired the interview...Questions, why does the child in question only have Utah IDs? (Fake) Why did Willie Jessop get so angry during the interview:flamemad: and then have his lawyer threaten him?

Final note: Willie J said he didn't like Shep treating them like perverts. Shep actually was very polite and caring with the parents. Watch and see. [/*]

:lol: So they still think they are in charge!

FCS~~WillieJ can't even keep his lies straight. The young woman goes from age 23 to age 29 in one interview setting.

LOL!!! They threaten Shep and Fox News like Fox has something to lose. These people are so full of bulhooey.

Jessop got angry because Shep was asking the hard questions. What do liars do when they get asked questions they can't answer with a spontaneous lie...

they get angry!

[juliekan]

Originally posted by evalles


He was compassionate to the parents, the kids aren't together and it's going to make visits very difficult. He understood why they were upset.
What made Willie Jessop mad, I think is when Shep said he believed the state. It was more or less calling them liars. [/*]

What did you think of Willie Jessop? I expected an older, soft spoken, perhaps stern man...not this young fireball.

[juliekan]

Originally posted by KatyDid


:lol: So they still think they are in charge!

FCS~~WillieJ can't even keep his lies straight. The young woman goes from age 23 to age 29 in one interview setting.

LOL!!! They threaten Shep and Fox News like Fox has something to lose. These people are so full of bulhooey.

Jessop got angry because Shep was asking the hard questions. What do liars do when they get asked questions they can't answer with a spontaneous lie...

they get angry! [/*]

Did they not want the interview aired because he claimed marriage cannot be illegal without parental consent or because he screwed up half the facts?:chicken:

[evalles]

TRLA's Response to CPS Steed.pdf
This is regarding the mandamus


http://3033920633817195966-a-trla-org-s-sites.googlegroups.com/a/trla.org/eldorado-media-updates/legal-documents/TRLA%27s_Response_to_CPS_Steed.pdf?attredirects=0

[evalles]

Originally posted by juliekan


What did you think of Willie Jessop? I expected an older, soft spoken, perhaps stern man...not this young fireball. [/*]

I'm not sure, he seems like a control freak.
Despite his comments, this guy's not dumb.

[walton]

Originally posted by juliekan


What did you think of Willie Jessop? I expected an older, soft spoken, perhaps stern man...not this young fireball. [/*]

Thanks for sharing the link! :)

Did you guys know that Willie was one of Warrens body guards? I am sure that Willie was quite intimidating to many people. Kind of a big guy with a lean forward in your face type of guy. Top that with a gun and yeah I'd be afraid.

Put me in a room with Willie and enough furniture between us and I'd like to finish where Shep left off.

Idiot. Nope, it is ok for old men to have sex with young girls as long as their parents give the ok.

Their thinking process is all messed up. Holy cow.
What a learning process for Rick Ross. Course I guess he has seen all this before.

Wow!! Thank you,thank you, thank you for sharing the link. And thank you Fox news for going forward.

[Details]

Originally posted by evalles
I haven't seen any evidence. Please show me evidence, all have I"ve seen are statements made by disgruntled ex-members. [/*]I knew you'd say that. Almost answered this question in the original post - but I figured I'd give you the chance to remember that you've asked this, and I've answered numerous times - once after awhile of trying to confirm if you'd actually bother reading it. Guess not, since here we are, with the same question again.

If you haven't seen the evidence, that's your choice. It's been put in your face more than enough times.

[walton]

Originally posted by Rainkiss


Too touchy an issue. If any of the candidates touch this one, they'll get blasted right out of the election. If you think CPS did the right thing, you're anti-family rights. If you think they were wrong, you're condoning child molestation. Unless any of them have a better idea on how it could have been handled, you won't hear it discussed unless it's lobbed at them out of left field at some Q&A session. (And, by the way, I asked not too long ago on the Mother's Day Board thread for anybody who had a problem with the way CPS handled the situation for a better idea on how it COULD have been handled. In case anybody missed it, I'll repeat it here, 'cause I still haven't heard an answer to that one.)

The White House DID comment. I believe what that article is stating is, essentially, "kindly keep your lies to yourself." If the President had anything else to say, he'd've said it, but he's in the same position as the candidates. His approval ratings are lower than a snake's belly as it is, he does NOT want to step in this one. [/*]

And blasted right out of election they should be.

If a candidate can not answer questions about some of todays events that concern not only these families but every taxpayer out there do we really want some like that leading our Country? I don't. I am quite frankly sick to death of those that can't stand up for what they believe in. A whole lotta talk about nuttin'.

jmo

[walton]

Originally posted by lotty
Has anyone seen this yet?

http://www.truthwillprevail.org/

Another FLDS website. [/*]

Maggie has more issues than what we've talked about on this board. jmo

Once again proof that TEXAS did the right thing. :patriot:

[LLaFren]

Thank you for link Juliekan!

http://www.foxnews.com/studiob/index.html

I love Shep, he states very clearly "we don't pull interviews, you decide"

Shep for president:D

[dsmith]

http://www.sltrib.com/

Second FLDS mother gives birth while in Texas custody
By Brooke Adams
The Salt Lake Tribune

Article Last Updated: 05/12/2008 11:59:05 PM MDT

May 13:
Mental health workers criticize treatment of FLDS women, children by TexasWhite House denies receiving letter from FLDS memberAn FLDS woman whose age is disputed by Texas officials gave birth in Austin around noon today to a son - and hours later her attorney won a ruling preventing authorities from moving her immediately to San Antonio.
Austin Judge Darlene Bryne granted a temporary restraining order to prevent the Texas Department of Family and Protective services from moving Louisa Jessop and her newborn to San Antonio this evening, according to Rod Parker, an FLDS spokesman and Salt Lake City attorney.
Louisa Bradshaw Jessop maintains she is 22, but the department has her classified as 17. She has two other children, ages 3 and 2, and is in state custody with them after an April 3 raid on her home, the YFZ Ranch in Eldorado. Parker said the plan to move the mother and infant was a "forum shopping maneuver" that would have allowed the state to file custody papers on the baby in San Angelo.
"Why else would they move a 6-hour-old baby halfway across Texas in the middle of the night when they have dozens of FLDS children in shelters in Austin?" Parker said.
Texas DFPS spokesman Patrick Crimmins said the agency would not comment on the issue. The agency filed a similar petition two weeks ago to take custody of another baby born to a woman also deemed to be a minor.

[Rainkiss]

Originally posted by juliekan
http://www.foxnews.com/studiob/index.html

Dockstader Interview on Shepard Smith this afternoon.

*bandwidth snip* [/*]

Great interview, thanks, Julie! Shep was great, I'm very impressed.

I honestly can't believe that Willie said, on the record, that no marriage is underage without parental consent. There's no state in the country where that's true. VERY aggressive body language, he strikes me as a man very used to getting his own way.

I hadn't figured he'd be too old. He was one of Jeff's bodyguards, I figured him for the imposing type. It was interesting that they got the ages mixed up, but I'm not too worried about that, 23 or 29 doesn't matter. I'm a little surprised they didn't actually BRING any of their evidence where they could put it up on TV, though.

[Rainkiss]

Originally posted by evalles
TRLA's Response to CPS Steed.pdf
This is regarding the mandamus


http://3033920633817195966-a-trla-org-s-sites.googlegroups.com/a/trla.org/eldorado-media-updates/legal-documents/TRLA%27s_Response_to_CPS_Steed.pdf?attredirects=0 [/*]

I keep checking their site, and I can't get a single legal document to load. Anybody else having any luck?

[LLaFren]

Originally posted by Rainkiss


Great interview, thanks, Julie! Shep was great, I'm very impressed.

I honestly can't believe that Willie said, on the record, that no marriage is underage without parental consent. There's no state in the country where that's true. VERY aggressive body language, he strikes me as a man very used to getting his own way.

I hadn't figured he'd be too old. He was one of Jeff's bodyguards, I figured him for the imposing type. It was interesting that they got the ages mixed up, but I'm not too worried about that, 23 or 29 doesn't matter. I'm a little surprised they didn't actually BRING any of their evidence where they could put it up on TV, though. [/*]


You know I didn't think of the proof, If I were being "persecuted", I would be waiving proof under everyones nose I could find that I was telling the truth, I would be shouting it from the rooftops, and forcing reporters to read and scrutinize it.

I would not want to meet Willie Jessop in a dark alley, he's seems to be a very scary person.

I dang sure wouldn't let him near my 15d, even if I had to face him in the above alley

[dsmith]

I started a new daily 5/13 and another woman gave birth

[Rainkiss]

More detailed article on second baby born (http://www.startribune.com/nation/18879874.html)

Crimmins acknowledged Monday that the mother is among 27 girls whose ages are in dispute.

He said officials were reviewing documentation for those who claim they are of legal age, and will release them from state custody if they are adults. He added that he didn't know how long it will take to investigate their claims.

Rod Parker, an attorney and spokesman for the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, accused state officials of deliberately holding a pregnant mother they to knew to be of legal age so they could take her baby into custody upon birth.

"They just wanted to keep the mother in custody until they could get the baby," Parker said.

Crimmins said sect members whose ages were in dispute were being kept in custody because sect members have given conflicting information about their names and ages.

"We didn't have documentation. The other thing, too, frankly, is the information we got ... changed over time," he said.


They're playing it safe, sounds like... If they're not sure of the age of a young mother, they're holding on to them to keep the possibility of an sixteen year old returning to her abuser low. It's a shame the FLDS members have muddied the waters so much that the authorities can't tell the ages of some of these girls.

Of course, her husband is trying to use the situation to get not only his wife and the baby released, but their two OTHER children. I wonder if they've been positively identified, and the proper paperwork filed.

[LLaFren]

Morning D, heading that way....:seeya:

[LLaFren]

Even if she is over 18 (doubtful), the child will be (or already is) a ward of the state.

Is TX still letting Identified (identified being the key word) stay with the children under one? For some reason I thought they had stopped that practice. If I was a new mother, I would claim whatever age I needed to be to stay with my child.

But that would be making the assumption that I wanted the child to begin with, and not had the pregnancy and resulting child forced upon me.

:shrug:

[Rainkiss]

I found this very interesting, and reassuring:

Interview with attorney representing some of the FLDS children (http://wwwwakeupamericans-spree.blogspot.com/2008/05/exclusive-interview-with-natalie.html)

There are some pretty strict restrictions on what she is permitted to discuss regarding the case, but she can state that the children she represents can and do have supervised visits with their parents. S.D is the interviewer, and Malonis is the attorney.

S.D.: I understand that you can discuss issues that are already public record, so with that in mind, I see that recently the Department of Family and Protective Services has issued a preliminary report to the Senate Health and Human Services Committee. In that report it states that they have reason to believe that some of the children in the state's care do not have parents at the FLDS compound. What do you know about this claim?

Malonis: I did read that report, and I have seen it mentioned in the press. I do not know anything about any specific child, but it is my understanding that in trying to locate the parents of all of the children, CPS has preliminarily concluded that none of the adults living at the compound are the parents of some of the children in custody. I know that CPS is looking at a variety of records and sources to determine those identities and the process was initially obfuscated because some adults and some children would not speak of certain issues and would not identify family relationships. It is my understanding that situation has improved but is not resolved.

This is the first time I've seen this discussed, that it appears there are children that were taken from the compound that have no parents there at all.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by walton


Maggie has more issues than what we've talked about on this board. jmo

Once again proof that TEXAS did the right thing. :patriot: [/*]

Maggie doesn't seem to 'get it'. Her rantings on that site are only more testimony to just how brainwashed she is. I would love to hear a psychologist's take on her ramblings.

Go figure :shrug:

[KatyDid]

I know I get behind reading the posts, but I hadn't seen this. Interesting~~who is lying: The White House staff to protect the pres from getting involved, or Willie Jessop to further his crusade. I was VERY surprised when I read his statement that he delivered the letter to the pres Crawford address on the eve of his daughter's wedding. IMO, any and everybody would be truned away unless it was another 9/11 event.

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_9235389

White House denies receiving letter from FLDS member

WASHINGTON -- The White House has not received a letter from those seeking help in the aftermath of the polygamous sect raid in Texas despite comments by an FLDS member that he gave one to "presidential staffers" at Bush's Crawford ranch.
A White House official said Monday they had not received the letter that Willie Jessop, a member of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, told another newspaper he hand-delivered to Bush staffers.
Jessop told the Deseret News that he gave it to the staffers and had a "cordial" conversation with them about the letter. It was unclear whom Jessop was referring to as the staffers and he did not return calls for comment on Monday.
Jessop's letter pleaded for Bush to intercede on behalf of the FLDS group.
"Mr. President, it does not require a foreign country to commit terrorist acts on American soil," Jessop wrote. "Terrorist acts can be committed by federal, local, and private entities that are operating under the guise of 'protecting the public.'"
But it's questionable how close Jessop could have got to the Texas ranch on a weekend when Bush's daughter Jenna wedded Henry Hagar in a private ceremony at the ranch. Security was tight in the area around the ranch, and even White House-credentialed reporters weren't allowed near.
And since the 2001 anthrax scare in Washington and New York, people attempting to deliver letters to the White House or other top government properties typically are turned away. Secret Service agents do not accept letters on behalf of the president, either.
tburr@sltrib.com

[dsmith]

Originally posted by Rainkiss
I found this very interesting, and reassuring:

Interview with attorney representing some of the FLDS children (http://wwwwakeupamericans-spree.blogspot.com/2008/05/exclusive-interview-with-natalie.html)

There are some pretty strict restrictions on what she is permitted to discuss regarding the case, but she can state that the children she represents can and do have supervised visits with their parents. S.D is the interviewer, and Malonis is the attorney.
This is the first time I've seen this discussed, that it appears there are children that were taken from the compound that have no parents there at all. [/*]

ROBERT MATAS
From Monday's Globe and Mail
May 5, 2008 at 4:32 AM EDT

SAN ANGELO, TEX. — The federal government should intervene to speed up the return to Canada of a 17-year-old girl who was apprehended during a raid of the Yearning For Zion polygamist compound in Texas, the parents' lawyer says.

The Canadian teenager was among 463 children under 18 years old who were taken into custody during a raid of the isolated compound run by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, 523 kilometres southwest of Dallas.

The girl's parents told their lawyer that their daughter had come to the YFZ compound from the Canadian FLDS community of Bountiful, *.C., a few weeks before the April 3 raid, to visit her grandmother. Former FLDS members say young FLDS girls are brought as child brides from Canada to the U.S. and assigned to be "celestial wives" of older men. They accuse the church of trafficking women across the Canada-U.S. border for sexual purposes.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2011412/posts?page=59

this is prob ally why they could not find the parents and why everyone is keeping silent

[Rainkiss]

Originally posted by GollyGeeWhiz


I saw him this morning on the Today show with those two FLDS couples who are doing the Persecution Tour.

I was just glad Willie was wearing regular clothes and didn't speak in that infernal simpering monotone that so many of them seem to have adopted. [/*]

I found a tape of this interview...

link (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/24575095#24575095)

Interesting... the mother states that her daughter is 23, and has a driver's license and birth certificate, and states that the (the mother) gave CPS HER OWN license and said that she'd vouch for her daughter. She never states that her daughter's license was produced.

Also, I note that in the entire 9 1/2 minute interview about the children, not one child's name was mentioned.

taking questions after the interview (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/24575095#24577612)

Also interesting... Are there any interviews out there where willie isn't hovering over them and watching every word that comes out of their mouths?

[Katprint]

Originally posted by Rainkiss
Too touchy an issue. If any of the candidates touch this one, they'll get blasted right out of the election. ... [/*]
Almost seems like Mitt Romney had a personal revelation telling him to bail out of the election before this whole situation blew up, doesn't it? Maybe he can still be someone's VP if things are straightened out in time.

Katprint

[evalles]

Originally posted by Details
I knew you'd say that. Almost answered this question in the original post - but I figured I'd give you the chance to remember that you've asked this, and I've answered numerous times - once after awhile of trying to confirm if you'd actually bother reading it. Guess not, since here we are, with the same question again.

If you haven't seen the evidence, that's your choice. It's been put in your face more than enough times. [/*]

You've answered, but never shown anything to back it up.
You've never posted any links that show anything other than vague claims by the state. And stories by ex- FLDS'rs that didn't even live at this compound. The state has changed things from actual abuse to the abuse being their belief system.

Every time I ask, I hear the same thing, pregnant teens and claims by ex-members. The state isn't even stating the broken bones were due to abuse.

Give me one link with actual evidence that shows for a fact that these children were abused. These children at this compound.

[Rainkiss]

Originally posted by evalles


You've answered, but never shown anything to back it up.
You've never posted any links that show anything other than vague claims by the state. And stories by ex- FLDS'rs that didn't even live at this compound. The state has changed things from actual abuse to the abuse being their belief system.

Every time I ask, I hear the same thing, pregnant teens and claims by ex-members. The state isn't even stating the broken bones were due to abuse.

Give me one link with actual evidence that shows for a fact that these children were abused. These children at this compound. [/*]

You mean aside from the pregnant teenagers?

We won't see it. How much evidence do you USUALLY see released in a rape case? ESPECIALLY before the investigation is complete, and before the rapists are arrested? The investigation is still open, and CPS is still working with these children, now that they're away from the adults who've been telling them to lie, to get to the truth.

Still waiting to hear how CPS could have handled it while not removing the children.

[Roux]

Originally posted by Rainkiss


I found a tape of this interview...

link (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/24575095#24575095)

Interesting... the mother states that her daughter is 23, and has a driver's license and birth certificate, and states that the (the mother) gave CPS HER OWN license and said that she'd vouch for her daughter. She never states that her daughter's license was produced.

Also, I note that in the entire 9 1/2 minute interview about the children, not one child's name was mentioned.

taking questions after the interview (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/24575095#24577612)

Also interesting... Are there any interviews out there where willie isn't hovering over them and watching every word that comes out of their mouths? [/*]

On the one hand the mother says she hasn't seen her sons in 37 days, yet told Shep they are having to travel "from the top of the state to the bottom" to visit their children. They imply the state purposefully split them widely along geographic lines, yet the state could hardly place all their children together since they are of different ages and sexes.

Notice that of the 5 FLDS people, all except Willie have that same droning monotone manner of speech. And their continued lies and exaggeration regarding invasion with weapons and "armored personnel carriers" is to inflame and sway public opinion, as well as always throwing out the religious persecution lie.

[Rainkiss]

Originally posted by Roux

*bandwidth snip* And their continued lies and exaggeration regarding invasion with weapons and "armored personnel carriers" is to inflame and sway public opinion, as well as always throwing out the religious persecution lie. [/*]

Actually there was one armored personnel carrier there, and law enforcement officials were armed. It's the "tanks" comment that was inaccurate and intended to imflame public opinion. And, especially given that they were entering a walled compound with at least one visible guard tower, seems reasonable. (Especially considering the history of the area, it's not THAT far from Waco, where there were ten deaths.

I can't believe people are pitching fits because law enforcement went there prepared for problems.

[BJames]

Originally posted by Rainkiss
<<<snipped only for brevity>>>
Still waiting to hear how CPS could have handled it while not removing the children. [/*]

I have thought about this a million different ways, and there is no way that it could have been done any differently.
These folks are very adept at 'shuffling', it is what they have done for so many years...so many generations, it is part of their learning curve from birth. And it isn't as if they (or most of them) have ever had any alternative way of viewing the world at large, they are told (again from birth) that anyone who lives unlike (outside) them are evil.
I am not without compassion and/or empathy, I do feel for those whom have lived what they have been told...but by doing 'nothing' we are perpetuating and furthering the psychological/physical/emotional abuse of even more generations to come. Literally...the buck has to stop here.
We have basic human rights and standards of care that we try to uphold even in other countries, to not 'expect' that for our own children would be a travesty.
Are they 'upset'? Of course they are...any 'change' is difficult, especially if it has been the only basis your entire life...but that doesn't make it 'right'. We can't turn a blind eye on questionable sub-standard practices in fear of 'upsetting' folks.
Does the end result justify the 'means' in this case? I don't believe there is an option...we can't wait for another generation to propagate...gee whiz, 415 kids are 415 too many as it is.
We can not go back and make this retroactive...but by failing to investigate it now would be turning a blind eye....almost condoning the practices.
It would be 'nice' if all the 'families' would agree to come in and chat 'truthfully' about the 'family dynamics and practices'...if indeed they believe in what is happening (ie/ child brides/mothers)...there should be no need to 'hide'...it should be very easy indeed.
We have basic caring/living standards and rights for our minors for a reason...not applying them in a self sanctified 'belief system' that puts these children in harms way should cause us shame...at least it does for me.
Education is power...there indeed is a reason why so many of these folks (especially women) are kept under educated.
Don't ask any questions...just follow me.
I have raised cattle with more free thought...sadly.

Just my opinion of course.

[dsmith]

http://www.gosanangelo.com/

BREAKING NEWS: CPS says sect mother who gave birth April 29 not a minor
Texas Child Protective Services said today at a custody hearing for a child born to one of the YFZ Ranch children that the agency no longer believes the mother is a minor.

CPS officials at the time believed the pregnant female to be a minor, and she was included in a massive custody action approved April 18 by 51st District Court Judge Barbara Walther in San Angelo.

Walther presided over today's hearing at the Tom Green County Courthouse.

The FLDS member gave birth the boy on April 29 in San Marcos.

Today's custody hearing was continued to Friday to allow attorneys to prepare. The mother will need a new attorney because the attorneys representing her also are representing other minors and were concerned about conflicts of interest.

When the hearing resumes, state officials said, they will continue to seek custody of the infant.

jmoo until they can prove no abuse then no children should be returned

[SilSal]

who does the updo on these women?

Looks like they would need an awful lot of hairspray to hold up them locks like that.

From what era is this style? of has it just come about now?

Do they spin their own?

What kind of dyes do they use that they are all pastel?

thank you.

[dsmith]

Originally posted by evalles


You've answered, but never shown anything to back it up.
You've never posted any links that show anything other than vague claims by the state. And stories by ex- FLDS'rs that didn't even live at this compound. The state has changed things from actual abuse to the abuse being their belief system.

Every time I ask, I hear the same thing, pregnant teens and claims by ex-members. The state isn't even stating the broken bones were due to abuse.

Give me one link with actual evidence that shows for a fact that these children were abused. These children at this compound. [/*]

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/may/13/cps-says-sect-mother-who-gave-birth-april-29-not/
Court Documents:

Affidavit in Support of Original Petition for Protection of a Child
Affidavit for Search and Arrest Warrant
Order for Investigation of Child Abuse
Order Authorizing Appointment of a Cout Appointed Special Advocate
State's Motion to Transfer Seized Property (1)
State's Motion to Transfer Seized Property (2)
Court Order Removing Cell Phones
Order for DNA Parentage Testing
Order on Placement of Children
Petition for Protection of Children in an Emergency
Bishop's Record listing families of the YFZ Ranch
Order Appointing Special Prosecutor

here are some links to read

[Rainkiss]

Just a thought... They say they haven't been able to make an appointment to see their sons... Why are they driving back and forth if they know they won't be getting in?

They KNOW that CPS isn't allowed to discuss details of individual cases, and can't step forward and say, "Yes, Mr. and Mrs. WhateverItWas, they saw Jimmy and Tommy on Thursday the 16th."

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by Rainkiss


Actually there was one armored personnel carrier there, and law enforcement officials were armed. It's the "tanks" comment that was inaccurate and intended to imflame public opinion. And, especially given that they were entering a walled compound with at least one visible guard tower, seems reasonable. (Especially considering the history of the area, it's not THAT far from Waco, where there were ten deaths.

I can't believe people are pitching fits because law enforcement went there prepared for problems. [/*]

ITA!! LE had to be prepared in case there was another David Koresh in the compound. Better to be prepared and not have to use instruments of force than to have another Waco errupt.

What is that saying about prevention...

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by SilSal
who does the updo on these women?

Looks like they would need an awful lot of hairspray to hold up them locks like that.

From what era is this style? of has it just come about now?

Do they spin their own?

What kind of dyes do they use that they are all pastel?

thank you. [/*]

their sister wives do their hair

the style is from the 1800s...referred to as prairie dressing

I'm betting they hit the Wal-Mart discount fabric table to buy the fabric for their dresses. You know Wal-Mart will keep them stocked up as long as they will buy it.

[juliekan]

Originally posted by juliekan
www.rickross.com/reference/yahweh/yahweh42.html

Test case for Texas anti-polygamy laws
Leader of Yahweh sect in Texas arrested for bigamy, breaking child labor laws, and aggravated assault of his 14 yo stepdaughter who he planned to make his wife [/*]

complaint and affadavit for this case, better info than article

http://www.dentonrc.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/05-08/0511yahweh.pdf

[Details]

Originally posted by dsmith
http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/may/13/cps-says-sect-mother-who-gave-birth-april-29-not/
Court Documents:

Affidavit in Support of Original Petition for Protection of a Child
Affidavit for Search and Arrest Warrant
Order for Investigation of Child Abuse
Order Authorizing Appointment of a Cout Appointed Special Advocate
State's Motion to Transfer Seized Property (1)
State's Motion to Transfer Seized Property (2)
Court Order Removing Cell Phones
Order for DNA Parentage Testing
Order on Placement of Children
Petition for Protection of Children in an Emergency
Bishop's Record listing families of the YFZ Ranch
Order Appointing Special Prosecutor

here are some links to read [/*]Yeah, like that'll happen. If a poster can't remember that there are pregnant underage girls, underage girls with children, and FLDS records picked up via search warrent showing the underage births and marriages, then they just are not interested. If they choose to ignore all of the people hurt by this cult in a crusade to punish CPS for daring to do their job, that's just a choice - that's all it is.

[darcie]

Originally posted by evalles


You've answered, but never shown anything to back it up.
You've never posted any links that show anything other than vague claims by the state. And stories by ex- FLDS'rs that didn't even live at this compound. The state has changed things from actual abuse to the abuse being their belief system.

Every time I ask, I hear the same thing, pregnant teens and claims by ex-members. The state isn't even stating the broken bones were due to abuse.

Give me one link with actual evidence that shows for a fact that these children were abused. These children at this compound. [/*]


It's pretty obvious then, that you don't see sex with a minor as abuse. Or a mother permitting sex with HER minor child as abuse. Or a father allowing his minor daughter to participate in a spiritual marriage as abuse.


There as been several links that have shown that So I again, would say that it is safe to asssume that you do not consider sex with a child abuse, much less a crime.

How sad that is.





:(


MOO

[walton]

Originally posted by Katprint

Almost seems like Mitt Romney had a personal revelation telling him to bail out of the election before this whole situation blew up, doesn't it? Maybe he can still be someone's VP if things are straightened out in time.

Katprint [/*]

:lol: < I don't believe that I've ever used this lil guy before but dang I giggled when I read the above.

[walton]

Originally posted by Rainkiss


I found a tape of this interview...

link (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/24575095#24575095)

Interesting... the mother states that her daughter is 23, and has a driver's license and birth certificate, and states that the (the mother) gave CPS HER OWN license and said that she'd vouch for her daughter. She never states that her daughter's license was produced.

Also, I note that in the entire 9 1/2 minute interview about the children, not one child's name was mentioned.

taking questions after the interview (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/24575095#24577612)

Also interesting... Are there any interviews out there where willie isn't hovering over them and watching every word that comes out of their mouths? [/*]

Thank you for the links. Watched both with much interest.

Did anyone notice that Nancy Dockstader said she had a 23 year old daughter?

She and her loving husband according to the Bishop records never wrote this then 22 year old daughters name down on the list.
They named 6 kids and the oldest being a 20 year old son named James Alan.

The list was made 3-23-07

Couldn't find the Keates on the lists.

I wish we had a list of all the people that were there. jmo

[Katprint]

Originally posted by darcie
It's pretty obvious then, that you don't see sex with a minor as abuse. Or a mother permitting sex with HER minor child as abuse. Or a father allowing his minor daughter to participate in a spiritual marriage as abuse. [/*]
When I defended school districts in California, some of the cases involved teachers who had molested students. It was VERY unusual for forcible rape to be involved. Generally, the teacher had "groomed" the student to accept slowly increasing levels of (inappropriate) intimacy and the ultimate sexual acts were consensual but illegal.

When I hear the husbands/parents/sister wives of the underage wives say things like, "Nobody was forced" I tend to believe that there may not have been violent physical force but clearly, to the extent that underage girls expected to be assigned to a much older man for a "spiritual" marriage accompanied by unlawful sexual intercourse, there was "grooming" going on.

Furthermore, regardless whether girls in Texas can be legally married at age 16 - or previously at age 14 - with their parents' written consent, if they are not legally married ("spiritual" marriages which are not also "legal" marriages do not count) then the age of consent remains age 17. So, those bishop's records listing many 16 year old polygamist wives are proof of statutory rape.

Katprint
Always only my own opinion

[juliekan]

Great post Katprint...thanks:)

[walton]

Originally posted by Katprint

When I defended school districts in California, **snipped**

Katprint
Always only my own opinion [/*]

Are you a lawyer Katprint? Guess I really shouldn't ask that. Sorry.

I'll say it like this: If you were a lawyer Katprint what do you think all of this is going to do to all those lawyers in Texas that are working for free?

Do you think that at the end of the day that maybe just maybe everyone will come together and come up with some recomendations so that this puts an end to these types of cults/ cult like situations?

Do you think a task force needs to be formed to investigate things like this?

[LLaFren]

Hey guys, home from work, going to read what I missed today!:seeya:

[Katprint]

Originally posted by walton

Are you a lawyer Katprint? Guess I really shouldn't ask that. Sorry.

I'll say it like this: If you were a lawyer Katprint what do you think all of this is going to do to all those lawyers in Texas that are working for free?

Do you think that at the end of the day that maybe just maybe everyone will come together and come up with some recomendations so that this puts an end to these types of cults/ cult like situations?

Do you think a task force needs to be formed to investigate things like this? [/*]
It's probably not a secret that I am a lawyer LOL.

All lawyers do some work for free (aka "pro bono" - "for the good.") In California, the State Bar asks attorneys to donate at least 50 hours per year. http://calbar.ca.gov/calbar/pdfs/accessjustice/2003-Pro-Bono-Res.pdf

I doubt you can outlaw cults, what with all the constitutional guarantees of freedom of religion etc. What you CAN do, is allow freedom of religious beliefs while prosecuting illegal behavior.

The FLDS is not the first group to claim religious persecution when their illegal behavior is prosecuted. This same issue came up with the Haitian voodoo animal sacrifices which violated Florida's animal cruelty laws, and the Christian rattlesnake handlers who violated child endangerment laws (the adults cannot allow the children to hold the rattlesnakes anymore), and the native Americans who wish to consume cannabis and peyote, so forth.

I really commend law enforcement in Texas for having the guts to take on such an overwhelming challenge. Sure, they did not do it perfectly and some mistakes were made. However, I find it OUTRAGEOUS that the FLDS parents are trying to blame problems that they themselves created (for example, children's ages and parentages not known because of the FLDS' intentional failure to keep birth records) on law enforcement. I hate to think what kinds of trouble those poor kids will have if they ever decide to, say, get a drivers' license or apply for a passport so they can travel internationally or apply for a social security number so they can be lawfully employed or otherwise try to live a normal life.

Katprint
Always only my own opinion

[walton]

Katprint if you've been following along with me- you must know that I am just plain old nosey. Thank you for your reply.

When all this started I was just amazed at the number of people that came forward to help. And then to find out that they all were volunteers. Kinda cool ya know? Big tough lawyers fighting for the little guy.( The kids.) Can't get any better than that.

I understand not going after any certain religion or any certain group but maybe setting some new guidelines concerning taxes, concerning living behind 9 foot walls, identity and education.

There just are so many loose ends don't you think?



Is there anything that you can think of that I could do to help?

[LLaFren]

I'm a licensed short term foster parent, I'll help where I can to! Only problem? I'm in FL no FLDS kids here (that I know of).

[lotty]

Anyone hear where Merrill Jessop went, his name was everywhere in the beginning. Now it is all Willie Jessop, what is going on?:confused:

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by lotty
Anyone hear where Merrill Jessop went, his name was everywhere in the beginning. Now it is all Willie Jessop, what is going on?:confused: [/*]

Betcha 'ol Merrill has tucked tail and run. He probably had an underage wife or 2, or 3, or 4, or 5 living on that compound. Willie has had time to stash his underage girls.

Isn't Merrill the supposed 'prophet in waiting' to follow Warren. I think I read some where the followers are already putting his photo on their walls.

[lotty]

Originally posted by KatyDid


Betcha 'ol Merrill has tucked tail and run. He probably had an underage wife or 2, or 3, or 4, or 5 living on that compound. Willie has had time to stash his underage girls.

Isn't Merrill the supposed 'prophet in waiting' to follow Warren. I think I read some where the followers are already putting his photo on their walls. [/*]

:eek: Yep, Willie is making the rounds "big time" tv, internet, newspapers. Ol' Merrill better lookout!

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by lotty


:eek: Yep, Willie is making the rounds "big time" tv, internet, newspapers. Ol' Merrill better lookout! [/*]

A bad move on the part of FLDS IMO. Willie comes off as a bully, not to mention insincere.

[lotty]

Originally posted by KatyDid


A bad move on the part of FLDS IMO. Willie comes off as a bully, not to mention insincere. [/*]

ITA! After seeing all of these very lean men, young men, and boys...OMG he is huge. I think it looks very controlling, I'm sure their PR people are giving them "great" advice. As always JMO/IMO

[lotty]

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/viewpoints/articles/0511vip-dougherty0511.html

Marvin Wyler's family has abandoned him
John Dougherty
May. 11, 2008 12:00 AM

COLORADO CITY

After spending much of the past six years covering the FLDS for Phoenix New Times and now the New York Times, it is painstakingly clear that, although FLDS parents may love their children, they have ceded their parental rights and control to Jeffs and other church leaders.

[sheltiemom]

Originally posted by evalles
Polygamist sect work takes toll on social workers

http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/05/08/0508stress.html

These workers are used to going into homes where things are really bad and feeling good about moving children from risk and danger," Hansen said. "This situation is completely different. To look at the mothers and children, you would see love and affection and bonds, plus children who appear to be in good physical condition. It was wrenching to pull children away from their mothers."
Secrest says she is troubled by what she sees as misconceptions about the FLDS mothers.

They're not brainwashed, she says. They're not zombies. Each woman has her own personality. Some are funny. Some are quiet. All seem strong and independent. [/*]

From you own link:

"Secrest generally helps crime victims through Texas RioGrande Legal Aid, a nonprofit that provides free legal services to low-income clients. The organization is representing 50 of the FLDS mothers, severalof whom are living in Austin to be near their children. Local nonprofits are working to find the women housing, jobs and counseling, said Cynthia Martinez, spokeswoman for the group."

These two (Secrest and Martinez) are hired to represent the FLDS and the FLDS mothers (I really have trouble referring to these mindless robots as mothers).

As for them being funny, independent, strong, read Carolyn Jessop's Escape to see the ways she and her children were tormented by these women. Also Jon Krakauer's Under the Banner of Heaven is an excellent read for insite into this sect.

Until I saw these women interviewed on tv, I thought the Stepford Wives as total fiction!

OOOPs - the cat is back and insists I turn this laptop off so he can have the lap.

Goodnight for sure this time.



:seeya:

[Details]

Wow - just finished with that article - what an unbelievable bit of misinformation and innuendo.

While it suggests a lot - when you read it - it's nearly all suggestion. Look at this: Experts say many of those professionals may be suffering from secondary traumatic stress, a condition that affects people working with victims of trauma. Symptoms include anxiety, sleeplessness, nightmares and intrusive thoughts.The key word is "may" - experts say CPS may be suffering from stress - in other words, you call an expert up, ask them to hypothesize, then put it in the article as if it's referring to someone real, real symptoms - without ever a quote from any CPS or other worker.

The person talking about losing sleep and how wonderful the FLDS mothers are is the person who is working for the FLDS mothers - not a CPS or other neutral party, but someone working for FLDS.

[evalles]

Originally posted by Details
Wow - just finished with that article - what an unbelievable bit of misinformation and innuendo.

While it suggests a lot - when you read it - it's nearly all suggestion. Look at this: The key word is "may" - experts say CPS may be suffering from stress - in other words, you call an expert up, ask them to hypothesize, then put it in the article as if it's referring to someone real, real symptoms - without ever a quote from any CPS or other worker.

The person talking about losing sleep and how wonderful the FLDS mothers are is the person who is working for the FLDS mothers - not a CPS or other neutral party, but someone working for FLDS. [/*]

LOL, may an possibly are the key words used by gov't officials.
Funny, when they say the boys may have been molested, you run with it as fact. Gov't officials frequently use possibility and may have and it's quoted as gospel here.
CPS is not a neutral party. They are under a ton of scrutiny due to this. The state has a lot to lose if they don't 'find' something substantial to use against these people.
The social workers from the mental health center are from a completely different agency why would they be biased ? they have nothing to gain by coming out with this. In fact it could cost them any future business from CPS.

[evalles]

Originally posted by sheltiemom


From you own link:

"Secrest generally helps crime victims through Texas RioGrande Legal Aid, a nonprofit that provides free legal services to low-income clients. The organization is representing 50 of the FLDS mothers, severalof whom are living in Austin to be near their children. Local nonprofits are working to find the women housing, jobs and counseling, said Cynthia Martinez, spokeswoman for the group."

These two (Secrest and Martinez) are hired to represent the FLDS and the FLDS mothers (I really have trouble referring to these mindless robots as mothers).

As for them being funny, independent, strong, read Carolyn Jessop's Escape to see the ways she and her children were tormented by these women. Also Jon Krakauer's Under the Banner of Heaven is an excellent read for insite into this sect.

Until I saw these women interviewed on tv, I thought the Stepford Wives as total fiction!

OOOPs - the cat is back and insists I turn this laptop off so he can have the lap.

Goodnight for sure this time.

IT WASN'T THEIR ATTORNEY THAT SAID THIS. SOCIAL WORKERS FROM AN OUTSIDE MENTAL HEALTH AGENCY WERE WITH THE FAMILIED AND MADE THESE OBSERVATIONS.

:seeya: [/*]

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by lotty
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/viewpoints/articles/0511vip-dougherty0511.html

Marvin Wyler's family has abandoned him
John Dougherty
May. 11, 2008 12:00 AM

COLORADO CITY

After spending much of the past six years covering the FLDS for Phoenix New Times and now the New York Times, it is painstakingly clear that, although FLDS parents may love their children, they have ceded their parental rights and control to Jeffs and other church leaders. [/*]

So there is karmic law...
from the article:

"It's ironic, Wyler said, that FLDS members are now suffering the agony of separation from loved ones after Texas last month removed 462 FLDS children from their religious compound and placed them in foster homes.

"I wish it on nobody, but the pain and suffering they are now feeling is exactly what they put us through six years ago," Wyler said."



They reap what they sow, IMO

[juliekan]

Originally posted by KatyDid


So there is karmic law...
from the article:

"It's ironic, Wyler said, that FLDS members are now suffering the agony of separation from loved ones after Texas last month removed 462 FLDS children from their religious compound and placed them in foster homes.

"I wish it on nobody, but the pain and suffering they are now feeling is exactly what they put us through six years ago," Wyler said."



They reap what they sow, IMO [/*]

My first thought was of all those teenage boys separated...thrown away...by their "loved ones."

[juliekan]

Originally posted by KatyDid


Betcha 'ol Merrill has tucked tail and run. He probably had an underage wife or 2, or 3, or 4, or 5 living on that compound. Willie has had time to stash his underage girls.

Isn't Merrill the supposed 'prophet in waiting' to follow Warren. I think I read some where the followers are already putting his photo on their walls. [/*]

From a site I posted last week, Merrill had 21 wives and 35 children at YFZ, besides his family in Arizona.

[lotty]

Originally posted by juliekan


My first thought was of all those teenage boys separated...thrown away...by their "loved ones." [/*]

JMO/IMO I did too...The parents in the FLDS are at least getting a small taste of what has been done to many of their boys. Just a small taste.

[juliekan]

They just had a short spot on good morning america talking about the FLDS using a web site-CaptiveFLDSChildren.org-in order to get their story out there...how surprising they would use a tool of the 21st century. I just giggled out loud because one picture showed a man stirring a bowl of something in the kitchen :lol:

[juliekan]

www.portfolio.com/in-this-issue/

my direct link won't work, but scroll down this page to:

Satan's Accountant
"They came up with a name for him almost as soon as he arrived: state-ordained-bishop--S.O.*. for short."

This is a terrific article about Bruce Wisan and a trip he took to Short Creek with this reporter.

[BorderCollieMom]

Originally posted by juliekan


complaint and affadavit for this case, better info than article

http://www.dentonrc.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/05-08/0511yahweh.pdf [/*]

Hi Juliekan

I just started this Sects topic on a seperate thread. Trials are coming up....and I thought talking about 2 sects in Tx., at the same time, on one thread, would get very confusing....

Thanks for the link there !!!! I didnt see that one but I posted a few others on the " House of Yahweh" thread.

:seeya:

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by juliekan


From a site I posted last week, Merrill had 21 wives and 35 children at YFZ, besides his family in Arizona. [/*]

Yep, the coward ran and left his 'women' to do his bidding.

I get so frustrated with these 'holy' men who will not stand up for the religion they so proudly profess as God's law. :no: they run and hide.

They care not for their religion or for any human being, just for their own disgusting arses.

:cuss:

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by juliekan
They just had a short spot on good morning america talking about the FLDS using a web site-CaptiveFLDSChildren.org-in order to get their story out there...how surprising they would use a tool of the 21st century. I just giggled out loud because one picture showed a man stirring a bowl of something in the kitchen :lol: [/*]

They use the tools of modern America that they profess to despise.

They are nothing but a bunch of liars, who now contradict themselves daily with new lies.

[juliekan]

:patriot: time to get my AARP card...I'm now a senior member...
sorry OT

[warhorse46]

Originally posted by KatyDid


Yep, the coward ran and left his 'women' to do his bidding.

I get so frustrated with these 'holy' men who will not stand up for the religion they so proudly profess as God's law. :no: they run and hide.

They care not for their religion or for any human being, just for their own disgusting arses.

:cuss: [/*]


The elder men run & hide behind the skirts of the adult women. They push the women out in front of the cameras to plead the case for marrying multiple wives, wives who are minor children. They push the adult women in front of the cameras to try to convince us how blissful their criminal life style is. The men don`t have the kahunas to stand before the cameras & admit their life style.

[juliekan]

Originally posted by BorderCollieMom


Hi Juliekan

I just started this Sects topic on a seperate thread. Trials are coming up....and I thought talking about 2 sects in Tx., at the same time, on one thread, would get very confusing....

Thanks for the link there !!!! I didnt see that one but I posted a few others on the " House of Yahweh" thread.

:seeya: [/*]

Thanks, I already found it and posted. :)

[BorderCollieMom]

Originally posted by evalles


LOL, may an possibly are the key words used by gov't officials.
Funny, when they say the boys may have been molested, you run with it as fact. Gov't officials frequently use possibility and may have and it's quoted as gospel here.
CPS is not a neutral party. They are under a ton of scrutiny due to this. The state has a lot to lose if they don't 'find' something substantial to use against these people.
The social workers from the mental health center are from a completely different agency why would they be biased ? they have nothing to gain by coming out with this. In fact it could cost them any future business from CPS. [/*]

Well, the article you posted used the words APPEAR, SEEM, MAY, etc also and you ran with it.

BTW....I havnt seen or heard anything here in Tx that states "CPS is under ton of scrutiny " and I havnt seen or heard that " The State of Texas has a lot to lose if they don't 'find' something substantial to use against these people."

Please post a link stating this. I'm not a big fan of Tx. CPS but in THIS CASE and most others, I applaud them and most all other TEXANS do too.


moo

[BorderCollieMom]

Originally posted by juliekan
:patriot: time to get my AARP card...I'm now a senior member...
sorry OT [/*]

:lol:

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by warhorse46



The elder men run & hide behind the skirts of the adult women. They push the women out in front of the cameras to plead the case for marrying multiple wives, wives who are minor children. They push the adult women in front of the cameras to try to convince us how blissful their criminal life style is. The men don`t have the kahunas to stand before the cameras & admit their life style. [/*]

A lesson they learned well from their founder Joseph Smith. He did the same thing. I can't help but laugh every time I read about how intimidated he was by his REAL wife.

[juliekan]

http://www.abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=4844915&page=1

"The woman who stood up to Warren Jeffs shares her story"

Elissa Wall has written a new book on leaving the sect and will be featured on Oprah today and "GMA" and "20/20" on Friday.

[evalles]

Originally posted by BorderCollieMom


Well, the article you posted used the words APPEAR, SEEM, MAY, etc also and you ran with it.

BTW....I havnt seen or heard anything here in Tx that states "CPS is under ton of scrutiny " and I havnt seen or heard that " The State of Texas has a lot to lose if they don't 'find' something substantial to use against these people."

Please post a link stating this. I'm not a big fan of Tx. CPS but in THIS CASE and most others, I applaud them and most all other TEXANS do too.


moo [/*]

I don't claim it's gospel.
While there were some mays and appears, there was also statements made based on eye witness testimony.
Texas applauds them, a lot of other states make fun of them.

[lotty]

Originally posted by evalles


I don't claim it's gospel.
While there were some mays and appears, there was also statements made based on eye witness testimony.
Texas applauds them, a lot of other states make fun of them. [/*]

Which states?

What eye witnesses?

[juliekan]

Originally posted by GollyGeeWhiz


Great read, juliekan. Thank you. [/*]

you are welcome ggw :) . I read it twice I thought it was so good.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by wendyRN
hi guys.

im watching Lisa Ling's report on Oprah right now. one thing that has always bothered me about the women is the way they talk. every one of them talk in that soft, meek, tone of voice.

it's so sad to know there is a cult like this in our country that can do this to women and children. [/*]

I believe they refer to that as 'keeping sweet'.

I have to wait two more hours to see Oprah here. :(

[Details]

Originally posted by evalles
LOL, may an possibly are the key words used by gov't officials.
Funny, when they say the boys may have been molested, you run with it as fact. Gov't officials frequently use possibility and may have and it's quoted as gospel here.
CPS is not a neutral party. They are under a ton of scrutiny due to this. The state has a lot to lose if they don't 'find' something substantial to use against these people.
The social workers from the mental health center are from a completely different agency why would they be biased ? they have nothing to gain by coming out with this. In fact it could cost them any future business from CPS. [/*]Gov't officials post a "may" with the facts that back it up (such as writings from journals being a basis for sexual abuse of boys). This is a "may" with no facts, pure speculation.

CPS is a neutral party. They gain nothing from taking the children other than a ton of work, heartache, scrutiny, and expense - that has to come out of their current budget. Nothing has ever been posted, BTW, showing your contention they get paid per child, is true.


The MHMR workers also are neutral - just as neutral as CPS (maybe less so - when their time was done with the kids - did that affect their income? It doesn't for CPS workers). But their role is different - it's to be the sympathetic ear and help people understand and deal with what is going on. Seems obvious to me that they overstepped that, didn't like the tone of CPS (which is in an investagatory role), and objected to necessary decisions - and that is not part of their role. I wonder if this is the first time they've been exposed to what goes on in the real world, as CPS tries to determine what is going on against a parent who is still trying to cover it up.

[evalles]

Originally posted by lotty


Which states?

What eye witnesses? [/*]

There are lots of blogs where most of the bloggers think Texas' action was way out of line.

They eyewitnesses were the social workers that were there with the mothers and the children.

[evalles]

Originally posted by Details
Gov't officials post a "may" with the facts that back it up (such as writings from journals being a basis for sexual abuse of boys). This is a "may" with no facts, pure speculation.

CPS is a neutral party. They gain nothing from taking the children other than a ton of work, heartache, scrutiny, and expense - that has to come out of their current budget. Nothing has ever been posted, BTW, showing your contention they get paid per child, is true.


The MHMR workers also are neutral - just as neutral as CPS (maybe less so - when their time was done with the kids - did that affect their income? It doesn't for CPS workers). But their role is different - it's to be the sympathetic ear and help people understand and deal with what is going on. Seems obvious to me that they overstepped that, didn't like the tone of CPS (which is in an investagatory role), and objected to necessary decisions - and that is not part of their role. I wonder if this is the first time they've been exposed to what goes on in the real world, as CPS tries to determine what is going on against a parent who is still trying to cover it up. [/*]

They'll get the feds to cover it.
The mental health workers have experience with abused kids and said they show none of the characteristics of abused children.
I don't care if CPS isn't there to be sympathetic, they have no right to disrespect these people.

[Details]

Originally posted by evalles
There are lots of blogs where most of the bloggers think Texas' action was way out of line.

They eyewitnesses were the social workers that were there with the mothers and the children. [/*]But - of course - only some of the eyewitnesses count. Only those who say CPS is wrong. The eyewitnesses raised by the cult, LE, CPS, the records of FLDS marriages and births, current FLDS members who accidentally let truth slip during an interview - all those eyewitnesses - they must be lying.



There are blogs, and lots of them, proclaiming the racial superiority of the white race. There are blogs, and lots of them saying Bigfoot really exists. You going on the word of a blogger?

[lotty]

Originally posted by evalles


There are lots of blogs where most of the bloggers think Texas' action was way out of line.

They eyewitnesses were the social workers that were there with the mothers and the children. [/*]

Bloggers are states? I thought bloggers were individuals.:confused:

Who are these social workers...to talk out of school seems very unprofessional to me.

[Details]

Originally posted by evalles
They'll get the feds to cover it. ..[/*]Link? :lol:

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by lotty


Bloggers are states? I thought bloggers were individuals.:confused:

Who are these social workers...to talk out of school seems very unprofessional to me. [/*]

Blogs are sites owned by individuals where they can post THEIR OPINIONS and rant into a black hole all they want.

I haven't seen too many of those posted here, mostly the ones that are owned by FLDS members.

You're doing a great job lotty! I salute you :patriot:

[lotty]

Originally posted by evalles


They'll get the feds to cover it.
The mental health workers have experience with abused kids and said they show none of the characteristics of abused children.
I don't care if CPS isn't there to be sympathetic, they have no right to disrespect these people. [/*]

I just have a question and maybe it is not very smart, but...if a child is raised a certain way, if they don't know it is abuse, and I believe it is abuse, are they going to have the characteristics of abused children?
Who is CPS disrespecting?

[Ladyhawk]

Originally posted by walton


Thank you for the links. Watched both with much interest.

Did anyone notice that Nancy Dockstader said she had a 23 year old daughter?

She and her loving husband according to the Bishop records never wrote this then 22 year old daughters name down on the list.
They named 6 kids and the oldest being a 20 year old son named James Alan.

The list was made 3-23-07

Couldn't find the Keates on the lists.

I wish we had a list of all the people that were there. jmo [/*]

Yes Walton, I heard her comment about her 23 year old daughter. She must have been married when they wrote the list....I also heard her say she had five kids, 3 boys and 2 daughters. The boys in Amarillo, 1 daughter in San Antonio and 1 in Corpus Christi. There is no 2nd daughter listed on the Bishop's List...just an 8 year old.

When and how did she get the 2nd daughter? How old is the 2nd daughter? Is she claiming a child as hers because she knows it really belongs to an underage girl?

Two of her listed five sons would now be 21 & 18 respectively if this list is correct.....are they still at Eldorado?

So many questions I would like to have answered.

moo

[KatyDid]

Watching Oprah now. They are on the Texas compound.

Ooooooooo not allowed to ask age of Sara, how many children she has, or how many sister wives she has. Sara couldn't even tell Lisa Ling how many children live in the house she lived in.

Warren Jeffs photo in all the rooms including all the children's rooms.

[Ladyhawk]

Originally posted by Ladyhawk


Yes Walton, I heard her comment about her 23 year old daughter. She must have been married when they wrote the list....
~~snip~~
moo [/*]

There's a Megan E. Dockstader Jessop, age 21, listed as 3rd wife to James Jessop. Maybe this is the 23 year old daughter she is talking about.

jmo

[KatyDid]

Just fiished watching Oprah with Lisa Ling's report. WOW!!! a lot of information in a short period of time. I wish it had lasted two more hours.

It made my heart happy to see Elissa happy! She can do so much to help these girls who are going through what she went through.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by GollyGeeWhiz


My local Oprah station is belly up, apparently. I can watch 9,312 stations right this minute - but not Oprah. Arrgghh!

Hopefully I can catch today's show this evening on some obscure satellite channel.

Hopefully. :cuss: [/*]

OH NO!!! :eek:

It is worth the watch, IMO. It could have used three seperate shows to cover everything fully. We got a little bit of the different stories.

I was very interested in the last segment on the show, an escapee from the Jeffs compound in Colorado City. She just escaped 4 months ago with her 7 children. I would REALLY like to hear more of her story.

[Details]

Originally posted by lotty
I just have a question and maybe it is not very smart, but...if a child is raised a certain way, if they don't know it is abuse, and I believe it is abuse, are they going to have the characteristics of abused children?
Who is CPS disrespecting? [/*]I don't believe CPS is disrespecting anyone - expecting mothers to not actively sabotage an investigation is not disrespect, asking the hard questions is not disrespect.

If a child is raised to believe something is right, I don't believe they would act abused - not until they start to realize - either through finding out that other children don't go through this, or through getting old enough to think some things through - that something is wrong. The one FLDS guy in jail - he said he didn't think he was doing anything wrong in fondling all his daughters breasts and such - they were his livestock, essentially - he was checking on their progress. The children finally figured it out, somehow or other.

What I'm thinking of is studies on spanking children (not abusively, but for discipline). The study on whether it is harmful or not has found that this depends on whether or not the community the child is raised in considers it normal. If it's not considered normal, the child will feel abused. If it's normal, they feel like nothing wrong happened.

[Details]

Please - more info on what exFLDS and/or FLDS people said on Oprah?

[lotty]

Originally posted by juliekan
www.portfolio.com/in-this-issue/

my direct link won't work, but scroll down this page to:

Satan's Accountant
"They came up with a name for him almost as soon as he arrived: state-ordained-bishop--S.O.*. for short."

This is a terrific article about Bruce Wisan and a trip he took to Short Creek with this reporter. [/*]

Wow! Thanks for the link.

[walton]

What happened to the sticky link thread?

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by walton
What happened to the sticky link thread? [/*]

I was looking for it earlier too when a poster 'needed' a link. Maybe it will be back. I sure hope so. There was a lot of link work in there.

[walton]

Originally posted by GollyGeeWhiz


OMG. CW put a warning up yesterday because people were responding instead of just pasting links.

Wonder if she pulled it? :eek: [/*]

Pulling a link thread because two people responded? Big deal!

In the mean time here is one of the many links that I have in my head that I know was on that thread.

It talks about the reasons Judge Steven F. Conn gave for being so leniant to an older man marrying a young girl.

http://blogs.sltrib.com/plurallife/archives/2006_08_01_archive.htm
During sentencing for polygamist Kelly Fischer Wednesday, Mohave County Superior Court Judge Steven F. Conn made one thing clear.
The practice of plural marriage isn't the only religious belief he finds odd.
Conn said he believes Fischer was motivated by "sincere religious" conviction when he took his 16-year-old stepdaughter as a plural wife.


Kelly Fischer got 45 days.

[walton]

Originally posted by KatyDid


I was looking for it earlier too when a poster 'needed' a link. Maybe it will be back. I sure hope so. There was a lot of link work in there. [/*]

Yup. It is like tearing pages out of book. :(

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by walton


Pulling a link thread because two people responded? Big deal!

In the mean time here is one of the many links that I have in my head that I know was on that thread.

It talks about the reasons Judge Steven F. Conn gave for being so leniant to an older man marrying a young girl.

http://blogs.sltrib.com/plurallife/archives/2006_08_01_archive.htm
During sentencing for polygamist Kelly Fischer Wednesday, Mohave County Superior Court Judge Steven F. Conn made one thing clear.
The practice of plural marriage isn't the only religious belief he finds odd.
Conn said he believes Fischer was motivated by "sincere religious" conviction when he took his 16-year-old stepdaughter as a plural wife.


Kelly Fischer got 45 days. [/*]

:eek: What?
So because he has a sincere religious conviction he gets a free pass for breaking the law.

When are these people going to wake up?

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by walton


Yup. It is like tearing pages out of book. :( [/*]

EXACTLY!!

[walton]

Take a quick look at this: http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?threadid=298391&perpage=40&pagenumber=10

There were people talking to one another on that sticky link thread and it is still there.

So... that can't be the reason that the thread was pulled.

I don't know if I have all the links saved. But I do believe I have most of the stories floating around in my head. So if anyone has questions- or when things need to be backed up... I will try to supply the link.

A missing thread isn't going to stop me. Right Coldwater? :)

[walton]

Originally posted by GollyGeeWhiz


Great read, juliekan. Thank you. [/*]

This was a really good article. I always wondered if Bruce Wisan would be bald by the time he finished this paper trail of Warrens. Bruce is one of the good guys. imo

lol



Really good article. Thanks for sharing the link juliekan.

[lotty]

Originally posted by walton


This was a really good article. I always wondered if Bruce Wisan would be bald by the time he finished this paper trail of Warrens. Bruce is one of the good guys. imo

lol



Really good article. Thanks for sharing the link juliekan. [/*]

Talk about sacrificing to benefit others! What an undertaking...and the right person for the job "to boot!" I think the FLDS in CC/Hildale are very lucky to have Mr. Wisan (if they realize it or not.)

[juliekan]

Originally posted by walton
What happened to the sticky link thread? [/*]

I checked back in at about 3pm and did not notice it gone!! Worried now...

[juliekan]

Originally posted by KatyDid


OH NO!!! :eek:

It is worth the watch, IMO. It could have used three seperate shows to cover everything fully. We got a little bit of the different stories.

I was very interested in the last segment on the show, an escapee from the Jeffs compound in Colorado City. She just escaped 4 months ago with her 7 children. I would REALLY like to hear more of her story. [/*]

Write Oprah...I have had good luck with sending e-mails to people lately...actually we all should send.

[walton]

Originally posted by KatyDid


EXACTLY!! [/*]

Off topic here just a bit.

One of the ladies from Banking on Heaven said that she had such a thirst for knowledge. And she spoke about how the FLDS leaders would tear pages out of a book. They would take books away from them.

When we were kids we didn't have a whole lot of the fancy things that the others did. But we had each other and we had parents that loved and provided for us.

My Dad always would comment about how lucky we were that we could read. "There are kids out there that can't. Kids out there that are not able to buy books. You can read a book and travel the world inside and out".

Never close a book until it is done he would say. And read I did. Weekly readers, the school books, the book program, the summer book programs and librarys. I've never stopped.

I found out later in life my father could only read very little. Just enough to get by.

I swear I am the luckiest person ever to have had such parents. And I also feel very very lucky to have found this board and so many wonderful people.



:rose:

[lotty]

Thank you Walton, for bringing enlightenement through your diligent research.:rose:

[Details]

Originally posted by walton
...My Dad always would comment about how lucky we were that we could read. "There are kids out there that can't. Kids out there that are not able to buy books. You can read a book and travel the world inside and out".

Never close a book until it is done he would say. And read I did. Weekly readers, the school books, the book program, the summer book programs and librarys. I've never stopped.

I found out later in life my father could only read very little. Just enough to get by.... [/*]A very wise father. It's wonderful he gave you that gift, knowing what it was worth because he lacked it.

[juliekan]

Originally posted by walton


Off topic here just a bit.

One of the ladies from Banking on Heaven said that she had such a thirst for knowledge. And she spoke about how the FLDS leaders would tear pages out of a book. They would take books away from them.

When we were kids we didn't have a whole lot of the fancy things that the others did. But we had each other and we had parents that loved and provided for us.

My Dad always would comment about how lucky we were that we could read. "There are kids out there that can't. Kids out there that are not able to buy books. You can read a book and travel the world inside and out".

Never close a book until it is done he would say. And read I did. Weekly readers, the school books, the book program, the summer book programs and librarys. I've never stopped.

I found out later in life my father could only read very little. Just enough to get by.

I swear I am the luckiest person ever to have had such parents. And I also feel very very lucky to have found this board and so many wonderful people.



:rose: [/*]

We had virtually nothing...but a free library about a block from our house. Where did my mom send us every day? We even ended up with our pictures in the paper for reading more books than anyone in town one summer. (I and my two sisters).
We moved to Colorado when my son was 5 months old. At 6 months my mom and I were talking on the phone and she was appalled that I wasn't reading to him. She immediately mailed us some age appropriate books, and now he is a senior and ranked 12th in his class. Sorry O/T, but freedom of reading and knowledge should rank right up there with freedom of speech. And it makes the conversation better...right...freedom to read...and speak?

I just hope that these children that have been moved away from the FLDS compound can see that some other things in life are possible...I don't want to change their whole life...but it would be wonderful if they could see what was out there and make a decision on their own.