Daily Thread 5/7 thru 11

[LLaFren]

Morning all {yawn},

I see the Attorney General's office will now be involved.

May 6, 2008, 3:27PM
Texas AG office to prosecute polygamist sect cases


By TERRI LANGFORD
Copyright 2008 Houston Chronicle

A judge at the center of the largest custody battle in U.S. history has approved a request to bring in the Texas Attorney General's office to prosecute any future criminal charges in the case.


I wonder how the DNA testing is going? Anybody heard?

[Rainkiss]

I'd imagine that a lot will depend on what criminal charges are filed, and against whom. I'd hope the men who they can prove had sex with underage girls wind up in jail... Of course, that'll put the mothers of their children right back on welfare.

[Devotion]

spirit07
Member
Registered: Aug 2007
Location:
Posts: 418

Re: Re: Re: Daily Thread 05/06
quote:
Originally posted by xray ra


OK so he says he has ONE legal wife and two other "spiritual wifes. He has at least 5 illegitemate children.(at least according to the law). I wonder if the "spiritual wife/mother" collects welfare for those children?

People want to know????

How the he!! could he possible support 3 wives and 13 children without support from the state and federal government.

Most regular people have a hard enough time supporting a wife and two kids unless the wife works.

Just sayin [/*]

I'd like to know also how he supports them.

I believe these folks should have to answer these tough questions if they are allowed air time/news time.

I know I said this before, but I also do not believe they should be allowed to speak out if they don't accurately identify who

they are and who all is in their immediate family.

Not sure if this guy did, but I am a bit tired

of interviews where they only identify themselves by first names
(mostly or names that no one can find on the list of who was at that ranch or names that could be more than one person, etc.).

__________________
These are my opinions only
IMO...YES, they should answer these questions and more.

[Devotion]

I found this Link very interesting.
Don't miss reading the comments/posts at the bottom of the article, very informative...
sorry I don't know how to link it! please help with this!.....imo

"Texas rep calls for probe of FLDS firm receiving defense contracts".

[BorderCollieMom]

Originally posted by Devotion
I found this Link very interesting.
Don't miss reading the comments/posts at the bottom of the article, very informative...
sorry I don't know how to link it! please help with this!.....imo

"Texas rep calls for probe of FLDS firm receiving defense contracts". [/*]

http://gosanangelo.com/news/2008/may/03/texas-rep-calls-for-probe-of-flds-firm-receiving/

[KatyDid]

I just heard an ad for today's Oprah show. They mentioned something about the polygamist compound raid. I went to her site, but there isn't anything there about it being on today's show.

:shrug:

So maybe she is covering it today.

[Rainkiss]

So, assuming all children were tested, just 135 adults have been tested?
:chicken:

[lotty]

Ok, so I sent an e-mail to the ACLU, asking why they are not defending the rights of the children. I told them plenty of people are willing to defend the rights of the parents. No one is allowing any choices for the children. I am not a fan of the ACLU, but I thought it was a legitimate question. I'm sure that due to the high volume of e-mails they receive daily, my e-mail will go unanswered. They will represent NAMBLA in MA over first amendment rights. No one will help these children receive an adequate education, or choices that they should be free to make about their adult lives.

SARCASM...I'm sure a 14 or 15 or 16 yo girl getting married off and having kids before she is 18 yo has no other hopes or aspirations.

As always JMO/IMO:flamemad:

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by GollyGeeWhiz


She's doing some sort of 'week in review' show today, according to previews. Have NO idea what that's about. One of the topics to be covered is the FLDS compound raid, which even confuses me further, since I tend to keep up with Oprah's show topics, and I don't recall her having doing a show on the compound to be 'reviewed.'

I'm corn-fused. :shrug: [/*]

Hmmm, I am confused too. I heard it as I was walking into the den this morning, but missed the whole ad spot. The words polygamist compound raid caught my attention.

I was hoping she would be asking some of the 'real' questions we have been asking here on the board.

[Rainkiss]

Originally posted by lotty
Ok, so I sent an e-mail to the ACLU, asking why they are not defending the rights of the children. I told them plenty of people are willing to defend the rights of the parents. No one is allowing any choices for the children. I am not a fan of the ACLU, but I thought it was a legitimate question. I'm sure that due to the high volume of e-mails they receive daily, my e-mail will go unanswered. They will represent NAMBLA in MA over first amendment rights. No one will help these children receive an adequate education, or choices that they should be free to make about their adult lives.

SARCASM...I'm sure a 14 or 15 or 16 yo girl getting married off and having kids before she is 18 yo has no other hopes or aspirations.

As always JMO/IMO:flamemad: [/*]

Great! Please let us know if they respond, and if they do, what they have to say for themselves. I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd like to know!

[juliekan]

Originally posted by KatyDid


Hmmm, I am confused too. I heard it as I was walking into the den this morning, but missed the whole ad spot. The words polygamist compound raid caught my attention.

I was hoping she would be asking some of the 'real' questions we have been asking here on the board. [/*]
the promo I heard make it sound like audience members would be part of the discussion? Maybe giving their opinion?

[juliekan]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


I wonder that myself. I have been out of touch with the news for about 3 days, don't you hate it when that happens. Spending more time out in the yard and out shopping :) . I haven't heard anything about the DNA testing. I wonder what they will do once they have kids and moms sorted out, then what? And are the welfare payments going to continue? How will the women survive, or are they going to go right back to those men if they are 'of age'. Will they seperate families, at risk kids don't go back, girls and teens- and the rest can? It will be interesting to see how this is handled. jmo. Hope it sets a precident and they follow suit in Utah and other states where this is going on unchecked. Send them all to Mexico. Maybe that will counterbalance the influx of mexican coming over the border to here. They say they want to live a simple lifestyle, they can live real simple in mexico. Oh no, they won't go there. No welfare.

jmo

www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/casey/5747910.html

The people in YFZ did NOT receive welfare.

AB [/*]

[Rainkiss]

Also, as the article pointed out (great find, Julie!), Texas is pretty live-and-let-live about many things... But, if they suddenly noticed a serious drain on resources, I imagine they'd react. (Wasn't Texas the state that had the "needed killin' law" I heard about awhile back?)

[juliekan]

Jim Kirkpatrick of Houston Tx demands an apology from the state of Utah

www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_9162130

[xray ra]

Originally posted by GollyGeeWhiz
I think it's because they've figured out other ways to support themselves (government contracts, for one), and the more they can stay under the government's radar in terms of ages, family ties, addresses, last names, etc., the happier they are. [/*]

Good afternoon GGW:seeya:

I wonder how the taxpayers in Arizona, Utah, Colorado, and elsewhere are feeling right about now?

Their tax dollars have been funneled to Texas!!!!

Other members of FDLS collect public assistance in those states and contribute 10% (at least) to the nationwide FDLS leadership.
They send these contributions to Texas.
Then the members of the YFZ ranch can pay for their computers, building materials, cars, farm equipment, food, cloth (to make those great dresses), pay electric, fuel, cell,ect bills.

Sound about right?

FOLLOW THE MONEY!!!!!!

Of course: jmo, imo

[Vinnie]

I bet there are some politicians in Utah who are hoping & praying that the FLDS gets crushed, regardless of the mealy-mouthed statements they've been making. Even though the vast majority of Utahns are not polygamists, many are sympathetic with their fundamentalist brethren. The politicians who tried to crack down on the polygamists often found themselves out of office next election. Even though the Short Creek raid was carried out by Arizona, Utah learned its lesson: go soft on the polygamists.

Even though they may be suffering now, the best thing that ever happened to the women and children of the Jeffs faction was moving to Texas and getting "liberated" by the state.

As Texas continues to investigate and prosecute, the Mormons back in Utah may back off their politicians and let them enforce the laws. Let's hope.

[lotty]

Originally posted by Rainkiss


Great! Please let us know if they respond, and if they do, what they have to say for themselves. I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd like to know! [/*]
At least I know they received it. My son said "If they don't answer, start e-mailing every day." I think I just might! I just don't know how long to wait for an answer.:shrug:

[Rainkiss]

Originally posted by lotty

At least I know they received it. My son said "If they don't answer, start e-mailing every day." I think I just might! I just don't know how long to wait for an answer.:shrug: [/*]

Mmm... Business etiquette is to allow 24 hours for a response to an e-mail. Every day sounds about right... Forward your original mail (if you kept a copy) and add another note asking for a response.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by lotty

At least I know they received it. My son said "If they don't answer, start e-mailing every day." I think I just might! I just don't know how long to wait for an answer.:shrug: [/*]

With attorneys, you might allow a 3 day time to reply. They aren't in their office(s) every day. I am dealing with an attorney now regardng my mother's estate. It usually takes him 3 days to return my calls or answer an email. Some days I get lucky and he answers right away. :D

[xray ra]

Originally posted by Rainkiss


Mmm... Business etiquette is to allow 24 hours for a response to an e-mail. Every day sounds about right... Forward your original mail (if you kept a copy) and add another note asking for a response. [/*]

I'm not sure that the response from the ACLU will be favorable to the children.
I have found that the cases where the ACLU do get involved, the situation gets worse, not better.

I think that they were called in on behalf of the "mothers". Now, until maternity can be proved by DNA, the ACLU cannot take a stand.

IMO, that is why we haven't heard from them. The "mothers" don't have the necessary documents. And when they do, the documents are tied to births of children to underage females!!!!

:biggrin:

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by xray ra


I'm not sure that the response from the ACLU will be favorable to the children.
I have found that the cases where the ACLU do get involved, the situation gets worse, not better.

I think that they were called in on behalf of the "mothers". Now, until maternity can be proved by DNA, the ACLU cannot take a stand.

IMO, that is why we haven't heard from them. The "mothers" don't have the necessary documents. And when they do, the documents are tied to births of children to underage females!!!!

:biggrin: [/*]

I wonder if the mothers are trying to get away with lying to their attorneys. :punch:

Wouldn't you love to be a fly on that wall?

[lotty]

Originally posted by xray ra


I'm not sure that the response from the ACLU will be favorable to the children.
I have found that the cases where the ACLU do get involved, the situation gets worse, not better.

I think that they were called in on behalf of the "mothers". Now, until maternity can be proved by DNA, the ACLU cannot take a stand.

IMO, that is why we haven't heard from them. The "mothers" don't have the necessary documents. And when they do, the documents are tied to births of children to underage females!!!!

:biggrin: [/*]

The point I'm trying to make to the ACLU, is, of all the rights being "trampled" on, the children are the worst off. It is one thing to make choices as an adult, even if you are ignorant...because you can always find a way to learn. I basically told them, that these children are forced (born) into oppression. Of anyone in the FLDS, the children are forced to be silent, and never taught that they have options, rights, and freedoms. They are defenseless, they have less voice than the mothers.
BTW Thank goodness for Texas! The only people willing to give the children a voice...or to help them find their voices!

[xray ra]

Originally posted by lotty


The point I'm trying to make to the ACLU, is, of all the rights being "trampled" on, the children are the worst off. It is one thing to make choices as an adult, even if you are ignorant...because you can always find a way to learn. I basically told them, that these children are forced (born) into oppression. Of anyone in the FLDS, the children are forced to be silent, and never taught that they have options, rights, and freedoms. They are defenseless, they have less voice than the mothers.
BTW Thank goodness for Texas! The only people willing to give the children a voice...or to help them find their voices! [/*]

Lotty, I am behind you 100%!!!!:patriot:

I, too, hope that someone in the ACLU will see the obvious.

Thankfully, I have not seen anywhere that they are coming to defense of the men in this cult.
:)

[xray ra]

Originally posted by KatyDid


I wonder if the mothers are trying to get away with lying to their attorneys. :punch:

Wouldn't you love to be a fly on that wall? [/*]

Lying for the Lord!!
I can't believe it, :rolleyes: (she says sarcastically)

[juliekan]

Oprah's on, supposed to address the FLDS issue along with others. Audience supposed to have their say today.

[xray ra]

Originally posted by juliekan
Oprah's on, supposed to address the FLDS issue along with others. Audience supposed to have their say today. [/*]

Darn, I missed it. Was watching Ellen!!!! Take good notes, Julie:seeya:

[spydernweb2006]

Originally posted by lotty
Ok, so I sent an e-mail to the ACLU, asking why they are not defending the rights of the children. I told them plenty of people are willing to defend the rights of the parents. No one is allowing any choices for the children. I am not a fan of the ACLU, but I thought it was a legitimate question. I'm sure that due to the high volume of e-mails they receive daily, my e-mail will go unanswered. They will represent NAMBLA in MA over first amendment rights. No one will help these children receive an adequate education, or choices that they should be free to make about their adult lives.

SARCASM...I'm sure a 14 or 15 or 16 yo girl getting married off and having kids before she is 18 yo has no other hopes or aspirations.

As always JMO/IMO:flamemad: [/*]

I just got home from work and saw your post. I and 9 Other Mom's found the reason Political Figures/Groups hate to get involved when we lobbied Congress for the rights of kids in Daycare. The reason for non involement:

KIDS DONT VOTE.

Its also combined with the FDLS kids Parent's breaking the Bigamy and Lord knows what other laws. Noone is gonna publically step forward and have fingers pointed back at them. Hell I am PROUD Texas even did anything considering UT and AZ turning blind eyes to the issues for so long.

JMHO

Hugs,

Spyder

[juliekan]

WOW never thought of that! :flamemad:

[juliekan]

On Oprah:
Starts with "a polygamist mother who lives in the suburbs and drives a minivan answers questions." A second wife in Salt Lake City is on (her twin sister is also married to the man), and says she is concerned about the psychological trauma to the kids. Should have done a "case by case" assessment only. But then states "Very real possibility of abuse." Then Oprah states her producers told her the lady had said LE should have removed all the men, not the women and children. The woman says oh no, "should have investigated the men first."
Then there is David Mattingly from CNN news who ran through the spiel of facts that we online already know. Don't know who this guy is but he did a good job of reporting facts. Oprah was nodding big when he talked about having to remove all the kids when there is a complaint and that documents back up the underage bearing of children. He also says he is amazed at the scope of all this. "Everything is big in Texas" he says and this is just one of the things...

Next Wednesday on Oprah....full show about FLDS in Texas.

How bout some of our expert posters e-mail Oprah with info, to make sure the show is really great?:beer:

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by juliekan
On Oprah:
Starts with "a polygamist mother who lives in the suburbs and drives a minivan answers questions." A second wife in Salt Lake City is on (her twin sister is also married to the man), and says she is concerned about the psychological trauma to the kids. Should have done a "case by case" assessment only. But then states "Very real possibility of abuse." Then Oprah states her producers told her the lady had said LE should have removed all the men, not the women and children. The woman says oh no, "should have investigated the men first."
Then there is David Mattingly from CNN news who ran through the spiel of facts that we online already know. Don't know who this guy is but he did a good job of reporting facts. Oprah was nodding big when he talked about having to remove all the kids when there is a complaint and that documents back up the underage bearing of children. He also says he is amazed at the scope of all this. "Everything is big in Texas" he says and this is just one of the things...

Next Wednesday on Oprah....full show about FLDS in Texas.

How bout some of our expert posters e-mail Oprah with info, to make sure the show is really great?:beer: [/*]

THANKS juliekan for the recap of the show.

I had a doc appointment and missed it. :(

Marking my calendar for next Wednesday to watch Oprah.

[Topher]

Aside from the child abuse and bigamy, another thing which has not been addressed: There are men with up to twenty one wives, and countless children who received welfare and food stamps. From what I have read, the sect has various successful business enterprises. But, the men did not use the money from those businesses for the care of the wives or children, who got their money and food stamps from the government. So, I can only conclude that this is welfare fraud on a massive scale. When the DNA tests start identifying fathers, and mothers of the children, will there be charges of welfare fraud? Feedback?

Topher

[juliekan]

www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/casey/5747910.html

I found the story but couldn't get my site to work. This is courtesy of KatyDid:)

[juliekan]

Nancy Grace is supposed to have an update tonight....where is everybody? I haven't had a chance at the computer lately and have it tonight...wish you :cool: were here.

[lotty]

Hi :seeya: Julie.

[Topher]

Originally posted by juliekan
www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/casey/5747910.html

I found the story but couldn't get my site to work. This is courtesy of KatyDid:) [/*]
---------------------------------------------------

I read the article. Okay, so if only 203 get food stamps, and only 63 are enrolled in the Children's Health Insurance program, that is still fraud, because according to the article there is a real estate trust worth from 10 to 15 million dollars, 10 good sized companies, a large farm, and uncounted construction firms and small businesses. They should not be taking anything from the welfare system. Furthermore, they should have to pay the enormous costs incurred by the state, including the DNA testing because they have obstructed justice, by withholding the necessary information . If the article is correct about the high numbers receiving public assistance in the Hildale and Colorado City in 2002, the federal and state governments should be investigating to see if the numbers are still that high (66% federal assistance and 78% food stamps). If THEY are still "Bleeding the Beast," and if the same abusive practices are going on in those communities as well. How do you feel about your tax dollars paying for cult harems in the name of god? Do not misunderstand me. The abuse of the children is first and foremost on my mind. A question: During a Nancy Grace show, it was said that many male children and babies are removed from the compound. When a community is based on males having many wives, then most male children are not wanted. Does anyone know what becomes of the unwanted male children and babies who are removed from the compound's population? I am hoping that it is not a practice to kill male babies when there are too many in relation to the number of female baby births.

Topher

[lotty]

<respectfully snipped for length>
Originally posted by Topher

---------------------------------------------------

A question: During a Nancy Grace show, it was said that many male children and babies are removed from the compound. When a community is based on males having many wives, then most male children are not wanted. Does anyone know what becomes of the unwanted male children and babies who are removed from the compound's population? I am hoping that it is not a practice to kill male babies when there are too many in relation to the number of female baby births.

Topher [/*]

There is a thread here about the "Lost Boys"... lot's of information. Generally the boys are given the boot, out of the community and religion, in their teen years...then they lose their parents, siblings, and friends, sometimes much later in life...then they lose their wives and children.

[evalles]

Originally posted by Topher

---------------------------------------------------

I read the article. Okay, so if only 203 get food stamps, and only 63 are enrolled in the Children's Health Insurance program, that is still fraud, because according to the article there is a real estate trust worth from 10 to 15 million dollars, 10 good sized companies, a large farm, and uncounted construction firms and small businesses. They should not be taking anything from the welfare system. Furthermore, they should have to pay the enormous costs incurred by the state, including the DNA testing because they have obstructed justice, by withholding the necessary information . If the article is correct about the high numbers receiving public assistance in the Hildale and Colorado City in 2002, the federal and state governments should be investigating to see if the numbers are still that high (66% federal assistance and 78% food stamps). If THEY are still "Bleeding the Beast," and if the same abusive practices are going on in those communities as well. How do you feel about your tax dollars paying for cult harems in the name of god? Do not misunderstand me. The abuse of the children is first and foremost on my mind. A question: During a Nancy Grace show, it was said that many male children and babies are removed from the compound. When a community is based on males having many wives, then most male children are not wanted. Does anyone know what becomes of the unwanted male children and babies who are removed from the compound's population? I am hoping that it is not a practice to kill male babies when there are too many in relation to the number of female baby births.

Topher [/*]


The article states that there were 212 receiving food stamps before the FLDS ever moved there. There's less now.

They aren't the ones that are receiving food stamps.

There have been numerous posts stating they were receiving welfare based on nothing but rumors & speculation.
Here's one so-called "fact" that has been disproven.

[lotty]

:eek: Has anyone else seen this?

http://yearningforzion.com/

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by lotty
:eek: Has anyone else seen this?

http://yearningforzion.com/ [/*]

Dang~no I hadn't seen it.

What are they saying, there wasn't probable cause? Maybe they should read the law and the latest ruling by the Supreme Court.

These people get on my last nerve. :cuss:

[lotty]

Originally posted by KatyDid


Dang~no I hadn't seen it.

What are they saying, there wasn't probable cause? Maybe they should read the law and the latest ruling by the Supreme Court.

These people get on my last nerve. :cuss: [/*]

ITA! :beer: Funny how people have selective reading skills.

And the website is for sale...

[juliekan]

Originally posted by evalles



The article states that there were 212 receiving food stamps before the FLDS ever moved there. There's less now.

They aren't the ones that are receiving food stamps.

There have been numerous posts stating they were receiving welfare based on nothing but rumors & speculation.
Here's one so-called "fact" that has been disproven. [/*]

thanks Evalles:)

[juliekan]

Originally posted by lotty
Hi :seeya: Julie. [/*]
:seeya: been at dinner...see you've been digging up good dirt. Check your pm lately?

[lotty]

Originally posted by juliekan

:seeya: been at dinner...see you've been digging up good dirt. Check your pm lately? [/*]

Yeah, I got it. ;) Hope dinner was good. Just posted a link Warren Jeffs hearing has been accelerated to May 16 @ 1:30.

[juliekan]

Originally posted by lotty


Yeah, I got it. ;) Hope dinner was good. Just posted a link Warren Jeffs hearing has been accelerated to May 16 @ 1:30. [/*]

As I said, you've pulled up some new info that we all need to see. I've had a prob with T....tonight disagreeing with the welfare payed in Texas to the FLDS. You can check his thread.

[juliekan]

Just caught Lotty's last link on Sticky...boy are you working overtime tonight or what?? Thanks for the info.

[lotty]

Got it! Haven't been able to be around much the last week and away from the computer...kind of catching up myself. I did not know Warren Jeffs attorneys sought a new trial in Utah, and just a couple of weeks ago or so I posted an article about the jurors in the Elissa Wall case complaining about a private investigator WJ hired harrassing them. The argument for a new trial was of course "a juror." Go figure. :cuss:

[juliekan]

www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/how-dangerous-flds

Lotty posted this on stickies...definantly a must read.

[lotty]

:seeya: Good night Julie, see ya' tomorrow!

[juliekan]

:seeya:
pleasant dreams, all

[LLaFren]

Morning all :seeya: Should we just continue on this thread? Or do we want to start a new Daily sticky?

[walton]

Originally posted by juliekan
Nancy Grace is supposed to have an update tonight....where is everybody? I haven't had a chance at the computer lately and have it tonight...wish you :cool: were here. [/*]

:D Too cool. I think they need to extend Nancy's show just a bit longer.... or she needs to do a special.

One of the things tonight that has me all fired up is why do they continue to talk about not having any witnesses?

The wives won't testify. The children won't testify. Do children really need to testify? Shouldn't the state be their voice?

They won't listen to the ones that have called, the ones that are talking. Why would anyone else step forward?

They have people that are telling the cops, lawyers, judges, news media about the abuses that they have suffered. Why don't they prosecute? Why don't they give the offenders just sentences?

When a child is beaten into a coma- do they need that child to testify that someone beat them up? Isn't the state suppose to be the voice for that child?

If there is a domestic violence call and the police respond don't they remove the offender and the state becomes her voice?


Nancy needs to do a special. jmo

[walton]

Thank you lotty for all the links!!

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/2/free-the-innocent-flds

Did you guys see this? The kid (not so kid) is a member of the LDS Church.

Appears to be well traveled. Apprears to have a taste for Politics.

Gotta love the 20 year old something kid that like to travel and play on the computer. :)

It appears that the kid needs to visit with someone on the dangers of mental abuse, physical abuse and mind control.

Yup, gotta love those kids.

[walton]

Originally posted by juliekan
www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/how-dangerous-flds

Lotty posted this on stickies...definantly a must read. [/*]

I thought this article was good.

The only thing is...... the FLDS/LDSpolygamy issues have been preatty much left alone for the last 53 years. imo



Look where it has gotten us. jmo

467 kids from the Texas Rescue.
over 1000 kids at Dr. Fischers place, an unmarked Babyland Graveyard and score of others unaccounted.

Billions of tax dollars fed into programs that have either helped or encouraged the Abusers to continue.



:(

[walton]

Originally posted by lotty


Yeah, I got it. ;) Hope dinner was good. Just posted a link Warren Jeffs hearing has been accelerated to May 16 @ 1:30. [/*]

Why do you suppose they moved it up a whole whopping 3 days?

1:30 in the afternoon? Why so late? and on a Friday?

Hmmm. Will Warren be there?

If it appears that they move someone named Warren Jeffs keep in mind that the man is very tall and very thin. So if he is walking behind a sheet held by LE, he should stand above most LE. jmo

[walton]

Originally posted by evalles



The article states that there were 212 receiving food stamps before the FLDS ever moved there. There's less now.

They aren't the ones that are receiving food stamps.

There have been numerous posts stating they were receiving welfare based on nothing but rumors & speculation.
Here's one so-called "fact" that has been disproven. [/*]



No evalles it only proves that they are not on the welfare programs in Texas.

[lotty]

Originally posted by walton




No evalles it only proves that they are not on the welfare programs in Texas. [/*]

Didn't the Los Angeles newspaper do a long and extensive story on FLDS and the things involved : welfare, police all the things going on in CC/HIldale a few years back. I might go look it up.

[Rainkiss]

Originally posted by walton


:D Too cool. I think they need to extend Nancy's show just a bit longer.... or she needs to do a special.

One of the things tonight that has me all fired up is why do they continue to talk about not having any witnesses?

The wives won't testify. The children won't testify. Do children really need to testify? Shouldn't the state be their voice?

They won't listen to the ones that have called, the ones that are talking. Why would anyone else step forward?

They have people that are telling the cops, lawyers, judges, news media about the abuses that they have suffered. Why don't they prosecute? Why don't they give the offenders just sentences?

When a child is beaten into a coma- do they need that child to testify that someone beat them up? Isn't the state suppose to be the voice for that child?

If there is a domestic violence call and the police respond don't they remove the offender and the state becomes her voice?


Nancy needs to do a special. jmo [/*]

Here's the problem, Walton... The state can step forward to speak for the wives and children... But, then, the defense can put those same wives and children up on the stand, and let them say, "No, no, he didn't do anything wrong."

The sister of a friend of mine was assaulted by her boyfriend, years back. I wasn't there, but I know the man who stopped by to see her and caught him with his hands around her throat. There were clear finger marks on her neck.

There was no trial. She refused to get up on the stand, and, even with photographs, without her cooperation the DA didn't believe he could get a conviction.

She married him, I'm still waiting to hear that he lost it again and has killed her, or, God forbid, one of her three daughters.

[lotty]

Originally posted by Rainkiss


Here's the problem, Walton... The state can step forward to speak for the wives and children... But, then, the defense can put those same wives and children up on the stand, and let them say, "No, no, he didn't do anything wrong."

The sister of a friend of mine was assaulted by her boyfriend, years back. I wasn't there, but I know the man who stopped by to see her and caught him with his hands around her throat. There were clear finger marks on her neck.

There was no trial. She refused to get up on the stand, and, even with photographs, without her cooperation the DA didn't believe he could get a conviction.

She married him, I'm still waiting to hear that he lost it again and has killed her, or, God forbid, one of her three daughters. [/*]
Texas takes over DV cases...if charges were filed, the state continues on with it if a minor is involved. I know a person who left TX, her husband battered her and her child. They called the police, and were put in a shelter. Because a minor was involved the state has carried on with it, even though the mom tried to drop charges and stop everything. The state continues on...in Texas. I think this is due to the minor, and Texas changed the law for this reason, too many moms return to their abusers with their children. I don't know that they do this for adults. Maybe someone from TX can enlighten us on the laws there. JMO/IMO

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by walton


Why do you suppose they moved it up a whole whopping 3 days?

1:30 in the afternoon? Why so late? and on a Friday?

Hmmm. Will Warren be there?

If it appears that they move someone named Warren Jeffs keep in mind that the man is very tall and very thin. So if he is walking behind a sheet held by LE, he should stand above most LE. jmo [/*]

They probably want to get it over and done with before Texas announces their charges. Maybe they think it would show prejudice. Just guessing.

Is this for the trial or hearing motions?

[walton]

Originally posted by LLaFren
Morning all :seeya: Should we just continue on this thread? Or do we want to start a new Daily sticky? [/*]

I think we should keep it. jmo


What happened to the Welfare thread? If it is here and I just can't see it.... I brought a link for them.

http://thehopeorg.org/taxes.html

http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy5.html

Hildale received $405,006 from federal housing grants to remodel 19 homes on FLDS land. And Hildale Mayor David K. Zitting, an FLDS member, was appointed by two Utah governors (Republicans Norm Bangerter and Mike Leavitt) to sit on the state Housing Development Advisory Council.

In 1998 Hildale ranked last among Utah towns for average payment of federal income taxes paid per filer ($651 annually), but it is first for tax exemptions (3.62). The average income on Hildale tax returns is $14,500, which was last in Utah's 170 towns and cities in 1998. However, FLDS "prophet" Rulon T. Jeffs owned a four-acre estate within one of best areas of Utah. He has visited his church in a chartered Learjet.




..... there is so much more at that link.

edited to add that the Welfare thread is actually on this thread. I thought it was a seperate thread. Sorry folks.

[lotty]

<respectfully snipped>
Originally posted by walton


I think we should keep it. jmo


What happened to the Welfare thread? If it is here and I just can't see it.... I brought a link for them.

http://thehopeorg.org/taxes.html

http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy5.html


edited to add that the Welfare thread is actually on this thread. I thought it was a seperate thread. Sorry folks. [/*]

The welfare thread was a different thread...I can't find it either. The one before that, I think it was called "Who is supporting the FLDS?" thread, that was about the same, thing disappeared as well.:shrug:

[walton]

Originally posted by lotty
<respectfully snipped>


The welfare thread was a different thread...I can't find it either. The one before that, I think it was called "Who is supporting the FLDS?" thread, that was about the same, thing disappeared as well.:shrug: [/*]

ahhhh I thought I might have been reading too much and things were starting to blend together. lol

Missing threads have never stopped me.


I am confused. What is the court thing all about on the 13th?

This has to be about all the Arizona charges right? Why start it on a Friday afternoon?

[lotty]

Originally posted by walton


ahhhh I thought I might have been reading too much and things were starting to blend together. lol

Missing threads have never stopped me.


I am confused. What is the court thing all about on the 13th?

This has to be about all the Arizona charges right? Why start it on a Friday afternoon? [/*]
I have no idea...I was surprised to read it. Just check in once and a while, remembered his date was coming up and...well what do you know? Sorry, I really don't know...will definitely keep my ear to the ground though.:seeya:

It is all Arizona, correct.

[Ladyhawk]

Originally posted by lotty

Texas takes over DV cases...if charges were filed, the state continues on with it if a minor is involved. I know a person who left TX, her husband battered her and her child. They called the police, and were put in a shelter. Because a minor was involved the state has carried on with it, even though the mom tried to drop charges and stop everything. The state continues on...in Texas. I think this is due to the minor, and Texas changed the law for this reason, too many moms return to their abusers with their children. I don't know that they do this for adults. Maybe someone from TX can enlighten us on the laws there. JMO/IMO [/*]

You are correct Lotty....Once domestic violence charges are filed, the option of dropping domestic violence charges is in the hands of the State alone. It is the State of Texas, not the accused’s spouse or partner, that has filed charges, so it is the State’s decision whether or not to prosecute. Only the State can dismiss the charges. It doesn't matter if there are minor children involved....if 911 is called and there is injury, someone is going to jail and it becomes a criminal matter.

[lotty]

Originally posted by Ladyhawk


You are correct Lotty....Once domestic violence charges are filed, the option of dropping domestic violence charges is in the hands of the State alone. It is the State of Texas, not the accused’s spouse or partner, that has filed charges, so it is the State’s decision whether or not to prosecute. Only the State can dismiss the charges. [/*]
Thank you Ladyhawk,
I wasn't exactly sure. :seeya:

[lotty]

Originally posted by walton


ahhhh I thought I might have been reading too much and things were starting to blend together. lol

Missing threads have never stopped me.


I am confused. What is the court thing all about on the 13th?

This has to be about all the Arizona charges right? Why start it on a Friday afternoon? [/*]

http://www.azprosecution.org/rules/procedure/r16/r16-1.html

Rule 16.1
General provisions
a. Scope of Rule. This rule shall govern the procedure to be followed in cases between arraignment and trial, unless specifically provided by another rule. Rules 16.1 and 16.2 shall apply to criminal proceedings in all courts.

*. Making of Motions Before Trial. All motions shall be made no later than 20 days prior to trial, or at such other time as the court may direct. The opposing party shall have 10 days within which to file a response, unless the opposing party waives response. Lack of jurisdiction may be raised at any time.

An omnibus hearing will be held only if affirmatively requested in writing by either or both parties within 30 days of the date of arraignment in the Superior Court, or ordered by the court on its own motion. The omnibus hearing shall be set at the earliest convenient date following the filing of the request but no later than 20 days prior to the trial date.

c. Effect of Failure to Make Motions in Timely Manner. Any motion, defense, objection, or request not timely raised under Rule 16.1(*) shall be precluded, unless the basis therefor was not then known, and by the exercise of reasonable diligence could not then have been known, and the party raises it promptly upon learning of it.

d. Finality of Pretrial Determinations. Except for good cause, or as otherwise provided by these rules, an issue previously determined by the court shall not be reconsidered.


Maybe things are moving forward! JMO/IMO:cool:

[Ladyhawk]

Your welcome. If LE is involved, they're going to take someone into custody...doesn't matter if you're begging and pleading and crying for the perp to not be arrested and all your kids are crying, whichever one committed the assault is going away. They will not leave the perp on the premises and I totally agree with that procedure. I thought it was that way in every state, not just here.

[walton]

http://www.childbrides.org/sex_pnt_f_for_god.html

Roberta and Beth both were under the age of 15 when they first moved into Black's home, maintains Peterson, who says she made more than a dozen calls to state Child Protective Services workers about the situation, beginning in 1997.

"They didn't respond," Peterson says. "Not at all."

_______________

http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy113.html

"We are taking a look at this from an organized-crime standpoint," Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff tells New Times.

Shurtleff says his office is "trying to get some cooperation with the feds looking for potential violations that might come under RICO and [involve allegations that some FLDS leaders are the same as] crime bosses."

Shurtleff declined to elaborate on the extent of the investigation, but he says it includes the FLDS in Hildale and other polygamous communities scattered across Utah. Shurtleff was emphatic that his office intends to aggressively prosecute polygamists who are involved in sexual misconduct with minors.

"I want them to get the message that we will prosecute," Shurtleff says. "We want to get two, three or four cases under our belt."

[wandering]

Originally posted by walton


I thought this article was good.

The only thing is...... the FLDS/LDSpolygamy issues have been preatty much left alone for the last 53 years. imo



Look where it has gotten us. jmo

467 kids from the Texas Rescue.
over 1000 kids at Dr. Fischers place, an unmarked Babyland Graveyard and score of others unaccounted.

Billions of tax dollars fed into programs that have either helped or encouraged the Abusers to continue.



:( [/*]They need to get answers for all those dead babies. :flamemad:

[evalles]

Originally posted by walton




No evalles it only proves that they are not on the welfare programs in Texas. [/*]

exactly,we are discussing the TX FLDS. To say the people at this compound are receiving it anywhere else would be speculation.

[juliekan]

Originally posted by walton
http://www.childbrides.org/sex_pnt_f_for_god.html

Roberta and Beth both were under the age of 15 when they first moved into Black's home, maintains Peterson, who says she made more than a dozen calls to state Child Protective Services workers about the situation, beginning in 1997.

"They didn't respond," Peterson says. "Not at all."

_______________

http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy113.html

"We are taking a look at this from an organized-crime standpoint," Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff tells New Times.

Shurtleff says his office is "trying to get some cooperation with the feds looking for potential violations that might come under RICO and [involve allegations that some FLDS leaders are the same as] crime bosses."

Shurtleff declined to elaborate on the extent of the investigation, but he says it includes the FLDS in Hildale and other polygamous communities scattered across Utah. Shurtleff was emphatic that his office intends to aggressively prosecute polygamists who are involved in sexual misconduct with minors.

"I want them to get the message that we will prosecute," Shurtleff says. "We want to get two, three or four cases under our belt." [/*]

www.dallasnews.com/nationworld/

can't get my direct link to work...scroll down this page to Mexico, and this article

Polygamists Unwelcome in Mexico Morman Community

Residents say members from FLDS would not be welcome. States that William Black fled to the LeBaron Community in Mexico and arrived with 3 wives and one underage bride to be. He was turned away and is thought to be in hiding somewhere in Mexico.

[lotty]

JMO/IMO If you take "FLDS" out of the story, the general public would be screaming about what is going on. I know the odd ball in New Mex. was arrested. I haven't heard much from people hollering about his right to "freedom of religion." Freedom to practice religion stops when you start breaking the law. FLDS knew they were breaking the laws...that's why they moved into compounds. Any member of the FLDS that has knowledge of the Short Creek raid, knows why they hide their beliefs, their beliefs are illegal.:flamemad:

Just a link on the "nut job" in New Mexico. I like the end of the article about the alarms going off. As always JMO/IMO

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/07/arts/television/07cult.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

Television Review | ‘Inside a Cult’

New Mexico Compound’s Enraptured Believers
By NEIL GENZLINGER
Published: May 7, 2008
Sure, there is a point of view in the documentary, as evident from Mr. Anthony’s excessive use of close-ups of cult members’ vacant stares. But even if the film is, say, only 10 percent accurate, it’s an alarm bell, especially after the recent accounts involving the much larger, polygamist sect in Texas. The authorities in New Mexico, at least, seem to have heard the alarm: two weeks ago they came in and removed three minors from the compound, and on Tuesday they arrested Mr. Travesser on three charges of criminal sexual contact, The Associated Press reported.

[walton]

http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_9192642

A senior Justice Department prosecutor will work with Utah, Arizona and Nevada to review how the federal government can help attack polygamy related crimes.
That revelation comes in a letter penned by Senate Majority Harry Reid.
Reid, writing this week to Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff and Arizona Attorney General Terry Goddard, said that U.S. Attorney General Michael Mukasey has appointed a senior, career prosecutor to work with the Western states' officials on how federal authorities might help "tackle this complex problem" of crimes in polygamous sects.


I don't know a lot about this Mukasey. I know he is from NY. That has to be a good thing right?

[BorderCollieMom]

http://www.star-telegram.com/local/story/631299.html

There is alot of info on this article that I havnt seen yet.

[juliekan]

Originally posted by walton
http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_9192642

A senior Justice Department prosecutor will work with Utah, Arizona and Nevada to review how the federal government can help attack polygamy related crimes.
That revelation comes in a letter penned by Senate Majority Harry Reid.
Reid, writing this week to Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff and Arizona Attorney General Terry Goddard, said that U.S. Attorney General Michael Mukasey has appointed a senior, career prosecutor to work with the Western states' officials on how federal authorities might help "tackle this complex problem" of crimes in polygamous sects.


I don't know a lot about this Mukasey. I know he is from NY. That has to be a good thing right? [/*]

http://judiciary.senate.gov/pdf/MukaseyWaterboardingLetter.pdf

Mukasey stance on waterboarding?

[juliekan]

Also on his waterboarding views

www.salon.com/opinion/blumenthal/2007/11/01/mukasey

[Devotion]

Originally posted by juliekan

http://judiciary.senate.gov/pdf/MukaseyWaterboardingLetter.pdf

Mukasey stance on waterboarding? [/*]

IMO....Upon reading the article I understand that WATER TORTURE has long been reconized as a form of torture!
The article sayes, the U.S. has historically repudiated this practice as ILLEGAL and violates Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions.

To threaten a person with imminent death, to include drowning is TORTURE under 18 U.S.C. @ 2340

The American Courts has uniformly reviewed it as ILLEGAL, often with severely punitive results for the PERPETRATORS...

What these men do to these innocient babies is against the Law!
IMO...these men and women SHOULD be held accountable under the laws of the U.S..!...moo

[LLaFren]

Originally posted by Ladyhawk


You are correct Lotty....Once domestic violence charges are filed, the option of dropping domestic violence charges is in the hands of the State alone. It is the State of Texas, not the accused’s spouse or partner, that has filed charges, so it is the State’s decision whether or not to prosecute. Only the State can dismiss the charges. It doesn't matter if there are minor children involved....if 911 is called and there is injury, someone is going to jail and it becomes a criminal matter. [/*]

It's the same here in FL, only our LE go one step further, if they can't figure out who threw the first punch, they take both and let the judge sort it out.

Thats how I end up with emergency placements:(

edit: someday I will learn to proofread before I hit submit.

[walton]

Originally posted by juliekan
Also on his waterboarding views

www.salon.com/opinion/blumenthal/2007/11/01/mukasey [/*]

A yes man?

:mad:

[xray ra]

Originally posted by LLaFren


It's the same here in FL, only our LE go one step further, if they can't figure out who threw the first punch, they take both and let the judge sort it out.

Thats how I end up with emergency placements:(

edit: someday I will learn to proofread before I hit submit. [/*]

In California, if the victim has physical proof ie: bruises, black eyes, cuts, fractures, ect. LE MUST make an arrest.
But when my Ex hit me he didn't leave a mark and I didn't have him arrested. I knew he would make my life and the lives of my kids he!! if I did.
I just left. It was a long drawn out process, but I did have a police report to admit with my divorce papers!!!

Thank God that was 11 yrs ago and life is much, much better.

:)

[juliekan]

Originally posted by walton


A yes man?

:mad: [/*]

Well his bios look like he is an expert on dealing with terrorism. I'm trying to find a logical link...terrorism...FLDS....terrorism....FLDS...
Nope, not even I can find how one would make you best equipped to deal with the other...without being facetious. :tongue:

[xray ra]

Hubby wants HIS computer back, See ya later:beer:

[LLaFren]

Hi Guys, :seeya: home from work, going to see what I missed today.

I seen the petition board, couldn't go near that, I would have said some things that would not have been kind.

:seeya:

[Devotion]

Company Profile: Newera Manufacturing, Inc

Year Started:2006

State of Incorporation:N/A

URL: Activate Links www.WesternPrecision.com

Location Type:Single Location

Stock Symbol:N/A

Stock Exchange:N/A

Also Does Business As:N/A

NAICS:N/A

SIC #Code:3599

Est. Annual Sales:$6,900,000

Est. Employees:93

Est. Employees at Location:93

Contact Name: John Wayman

Contact Title:President & Chief Executive Officer

Data above provided by D&*. [/*] QUOTE

WOW! Do these numbers seem to wave a red flag at anyone?
Only 93 employees...Let's hope someone is SHARP enough to check this out!

1. How many hours a week each employee worked.
2. How much State and Federal TAX each of these 93 employee's each year.
3. Employee's Social Security Numbers, did they pay social security, did the company pay any retirement benefits or medical or workmans comp. for the 93 people?
4. Ages and sex
5. If they own property
6. If wife or children are drawing public assistance.
7. Are the employees legal citizens over 18 yrs. old?
8. Is this company owned by the FLDS?

my opinions only!

[LLaFren]

Originally posted by LLaFren
Hi Guys, :seeya: home from work, going to see what I missed today.

I seen the petition board, couldn't go near that, I would have said some things that would not have been kind.

:seeya: [/*]

I saw the petition board, I saw...

I promise to learn how to proofread....
:rolleyes:

[xray ra]

Originally posted by LLaFren


I saw the petition board, I saw...

I promise to learn how to proofread....
:rolleyes: [/*]

:lol: ROFLMAO

ETA: proofread or proof read or proof-read?

Still laughing:)

[walton]

http://www.foxnews.com/americaspulse/

I don't know how to bring the actual video link here.

Scroll down to the spot where it says In case you missed it.

Safety net Summit

You can see ED Hill talking to Mark Shurtleff.

I've heard him say many times.. We have so many more Polygamists than Texas. We don't have the resources to go after all the polygamists.

Well Mr. Shurtleff how do you suppose those numbers got so high?

Mr. Shurtleff tell us how much are you saving by going after them one at a time? By going after one family at a time how many more young teenage girls will be married to old men?



I thought ED did a great job.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by walton
http://www.foxnews.com/americaspulse/

<respectfully snipped>
Well Mr. Shurtleff how do you suppose those numbers got so high?

[/*]

EXACTLY walton!!! :beer:

Shurtleff continues to show his incompetence and complacency, IMO.

[LLaFren]

OMG - I think she ought to be the AG, I love her questions!

He is a weasel, asking how are you going to prosocute those guys?

How about by arresting them?

[walton]

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_9200984

- Attorney General Mark Shurtleff called a raid on a polygamous sect's ranch in Texas no surprise given the group's resistant, secretive practices but said Thursday he would never authorize such a move in Utah.
"I know you are worried about that. We're not going to do it," said Shurtleff, drawing applause from a crowd at the Dixie Center packed with fundamentalist Mormons. "We don't believe that is the answer."
It's been more than a month since Texas authorities took more than 400 children from the ranch, home to members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, because of abuse allegations.
But aftershocks of the event continue to reverberate through fundamentalist Mormon communities thousands of miles away, as shown during the fourth annual town hall meeting on polygamy at the Dixie Center.
At the back of the hall, a caution-yellow banner advertised the sect's Web site and thanked the public for its support.

further into the article........ One panel, comprised of plural wives from all but the FLDS community, said media tend to miss the diversity of the various groups, which collectively have about 35,000 members.




35,000 members

[walton]

35,000 members and growing....

And Mr. Shurtleff and Terry Goddard said they don't need any help that they are "cracking down" on the problem.

From the same link:
As in previous years, some audience members asked the attorneys general for help in pushing for decriminalization of polygamy, which they said would do more to open the closed communities than any prosecutorial action.

Shurtleff's advice: "Wait until after the election" to bring up any such proposals.


:flamemad:

[walton]

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=3256650

One polygamist said, "I am somewhat scared when you say that we will not prosecute polygamy for the fact of polygamy alone, because we don't have the resources for it. I am afraid that one day you will have the resources for it, and then you will come after me and after my friends who are good people."

The message from law enforcement tonight-- allegations of abuse of women and children within polygamy will be handled individually.

Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff, said, "We assure you we do not plan a raid to end polygamy. I know you are worried about that. We are not going to do it. I don't care how many talking heads on cable TV shows tell us we need to cowboy up and be like Texas, we do not believe that is the answer."

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by walton
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=3256650

One polygamist said, "I am somewhat scared when you say that we will not prosecute polygamy for the fact of polygamy alone, because we don't have the resources for it. I am afraid that one day you will have the resources for it, and then you will come after me and after my friends who are good people."

The message from law enforcement tonight-- allegations of abuse of women and children within polygamy will be handled individually.

Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff, said, "We assure you we do not plan a raid to end polygamy. I know you are worried about that. We are not going to do it. I don't care how many talking heads on cable TV shows tell us we need to cowboy up and be like Texas, we do not believe that is the answer." [/*]

Is Shurtleff an elected official?

I wonder what Harry Reid is thinking about these statements.

Shurtleff is pandering to this cult. He is part of the problem that allows innocent children to suffer physical and sexual abuse.

"...allegations of abuse of women and children within polygamy will be handled individually."

Does he mean like they have handled the abuses in the past?

When can the feds step in? Are there any crimes considered a federal offense?

If this guy is an elected official in Utah, I wish I were a voter there. I would be first to organize a campaign against his re-election and put all his dirty laundry out for the world to see.

:cuss:

[lotty]

Originally posted by KatyDid


Is Shurtleff an elected official?

I wonder what Harry Reid is thinking about these statements.

Shurtleff is pandering to this cult. He is part of the problem that allows innocent children to suffer physical and sexual abuse.

"...allegations of abuse of women and children within polygamy will be handled individually."

Does he mean like they have handled the abuses in the past?

When can the feds step in? Are there any crimes considered a federal offense?

If this guy is an elected official in Utah, I wish I were a voter there. I would be first to organize a campaign against his re-election and put all his dirty laundry out for the world to see.

:cuss: [/*]

http://attorneygeneral.utah.gov/bio.html

Attorney General Mark Shurtleff - Bio

Home / About / AG Bio

Biography

Mark L. Shurtleff was re-elected as the Utah Attorney General in November 2004 with a strong 70% of the vote; and is now serving his second term. Since taking office, the number of meth labs has been decreased by two-thirds and he has talked to thousands of students and parents about the dangers of drugs. He has also toured the state to warn about the predators on the Internet. The AG's Office investigates and prosecutes child pornographers that use the Internet to abuse children and has a 100% conviction rate. Shurtleff set up Utah's AMBER Alert, helped pass the state’s Child Protection Registry and stopped the federal government from illegally taking control of millions of acres of public lands in Utah.

Shurtleff was born and raised in Utah, graduating from Brighton High School, Brigham Young University and the University of Utah School of Law.

He served in the U.S. Navy Judge Advocate General (JAG) Corps as an Officer and Attorney, prosecuting hundreds of cases from 1985 to 1990. Shurtleff was a private practice trial lawyer in California from 1990 to 1993. He returned to Utah to serve as an Assistant Attorney General from 1993 to 1997. During that time, Shurtleff was appointed Section Chief for Civil Rights & Corrections and served as the lead attorney for public safety. From 1997 to 1998, he was a Deputy County Attorney for Salt Lake County. He also served as a Small Claims Judge Pro Tem in the Third District Court and a law enforcement and corrections instructor. From 1998 to 2000, Shurtleff served as Salt Lake County Commissioner.

Attorney General Shurtleff is the Immediate Past Chairman of the Conference of Western Attorneys General (CWAG), and has served several times on the Executive Committee for the National Association of Attorneys General (NAAG). He currently Chairs the NAAG Internal Relations Committee and Civil Rights Committee. In addition, he serves on the Board of Directors of the America‑Israel Friendship League, Fight Crime: Invest in Kids Association and the Washington Legal Foundation. Locally, he serves on the Boards of the Utah Prosecution Council, Commission on Criminal & Juvenile Justice, the Constitutional Defense Council, and Utah Citizens Against Pornography.

Mentoring and volunteerism have been a major part of Shurtleff’s life. He has been a Boy Scout leader for 22 years and in March 2007 he was honored with scouting’s highest award for adults: the Silver Beaver. He is an anti‑drug lecturer in our schools, an At‑Risk Youth Mentor, and has coached youth basketball, soccer, volleyball and softball. He is currently the Honorary Chair of the Utah Mentor Network and has personally mentored two elementary school students. He has received numerous awards for protecting children including the 2004 "Champion of Children" Award, the 2005 Utah "Protector of Children" Award, the 2005 "Guardian of the Light" Award, the 2006 Internet Safety Person of the Year by the Boys and Girls Clubs, and the 2006 "Humanitarian of the Year" Award from the National Conference for Community and Justice. In November 2006 he received the highest award given by Mexico to a non‑Mexican, The Order of the Aztec Eagle, presented to him by President Vicente Fox.

Most importantly, he and his wife, M’Liss, have been married 26 years and are the parents of five incredible children.

| Accessibility | AG Links | AG News | Privacy Policy | Sitemap | Terms of Use | Utah State Gov |
Copyright © 2005 Utah Attorney General – All rights reserved.

[lotty]

http://prismcontractors.com/

Welcome to Prism Contractors
We are a licensed general engineering contractor serving Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Idaho, Colorado, and New Mexico, and able to travel just about anywhere else. We have been incorporated since 1999, and our founder C. Paul Holm brings you 18 years general engineering experience. Prism is committed to maintain the highest level of quality while delivering cost efficient results and meeting the most demanding schedules.


Perhaps just a little more of where the money goes?...JMO/IMO

[Ladyhawk]

FLDS man seeks wife's release from state custody......


http://www.kxan.com/Global/story.asp?S=8292438&nav=0s3c2VyA

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by Ladyhawk
FLDS man seeks wife's release from state custody......


http://www.kxan.com/Global/story.asp?S=8292438&nav=0s3c2VyA [/*]

That is the same young man that appeared on several news shows with two other men. He was the one that seemed the least 'smart' of the group.

The article states his wife is not underage, but they don't say how old she is. She has a 2 y/o son, a little girl and a child due to be born May 10.

My question is how old was she when they married and how old was she when she was impregnated with the 2 y/o.

These people do a lot of whining and accusing 'the government', but never give ALL the information to bolster their 'claims'.

I hope the judge has a document specialist verify the documents this man and his attorney are presenting to show his wife's age.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by GollyGeeWhiz
The fact remains that if the residents of the Eldorado compound had cooperated with authorities in the beginning with regard to who they are, how old they are, who their children are, etc. and so forth - much of this ongoing 'who's on first?' nonsense could've been avoided. Pardon me if I feel little sympathy for the plight of those who thought it was such a grand idea to play hide the salami initially.

Being willing and able to identify who and how old we are, who we are related to, and where we live is a daily occurrence and a no-brainer for most Americans. It's one of the first things children are taught by their parents before they enter society. People who hide their identities in our society are generally criminals.

The fact that the FLDS play so fast and loose with something as basic as identity speaks volumes - at least to me. [/*]

Yeppers!!! :beer:

I'm on the same train with you. My smpathy extends only to the children who are not of age to make their own decisions.

[Ladyhawk]

Originally posted by KatyDid


That is the same young man that appeared on several news shows with two other men. He was the one that seemed the least 'smart' of the group.

The article states his wife is not underage, but they don't say how old she is. She has a 2 y/o son, a little girl and a child due to be born May 10.

My question is how old was she when they married and how old was she when she was impregnated with the 2 y/o.

These people do a lot of whining and accusing 'the government', but never give ALL the information to bolster their 'claims'.

I hope the judge has a document specialist verify the documents this man and his attorney are presenting to show his wife's age. [/*]

I'm reading they both are 24....the video clip says she's 22 and also gives the daughter's age as 3.

I think you're on the right track suggesting a forensic document examiner look at their papers....could be there's another Mark Hofmann in the fold.

[evalles]

Shurtleff was born and raised in Utah, graduating from Brighton High School, Brigham Young University and the University of Utah School of Law.

He went to Brigham Young.

So is he LDS or FLDS ?

[evalles]

Texas isn't willing to accept the documents they have provided.
Some presented birth certificates and Utah ID's and that wasn't good enough.

[Details]

I wouldn't take a Utah document on this - they're too tight with the FLDS. Reassuring them there will be no raids, let's talk about legalizing polygamy after the election - pretty obvious that FLDS still has a good hold on some local officials. Especially in the smaller towns they used to pretty nearly own, where LE would return an abused wife to her husband.

If it's a FLDS owned and operated doctor issuing the birth certificate - I'm sure they figured it'd be easier not to have an accurate age on the girls. IIRC, none of the infants in the compount had a birth certificate yet - they get one when convenient - likely with a convenient birthdate on it.

[evalles]

Originally posted by Details
I wouldn't take a Utah document on this - they're too tight with the FLDS. Reassuring them there will be no raids, let's talk about legalizing polygamy after the election - pretty obvious that FLDS still has a good hold on some local officials. Especially in the smaller towns they used to pretty nearly own, where LE would return an abused wife to her husband.

If it's a FLDS owned and operated doctor issuing the birth certificate - I'm sure they figured it'd be easier not to have an accurate age on the girls. IIRC, none of the infants in the compount had a birth certificate yet - they get one when convenient - likely with a convenient birthdate on it. [/*]

Then it didn't matter if they provided documentation or not, their kids were gone anyway.
Do they refuse to accept out of state ID's for everyone or just the FLDS ?

[walton]

http://blogs.sltrib.com/plurallife/archives/2006_06_01_archive.htm

entry dated June 29, 2006

You may remember that in May, Terrill Johnson, interim mayor of Colorado City, was arrested during a town council meeting for fraudulent vehicle registration.

Apparently, skipping over the border to register vehicles may not be the only way a few residents in the polygamous community at the Utah/Arizona border try to avoid paying state taxes.

A couple of residents apparently have bought membership in the so-called "Little Shell Pembina Band of North America" in an attempt to gain protection from state laws under its "sovereign nation" claim.

In the past 14 months, Hurricane Police stopped two residents of Hildale who were subsequently found to have fraudulent registrations issued by the sham tribe -- which is not to be confused by the similarly named, legitimate "Little Shell Band of Montana."

The Anti-Defamation League describes the "Little Shell Pembina Band" as an anti-government movement that claims ties to the Chippewas. The federal government has rejected its appeals for recognition.

But that hasn't stopped the Pembina band from offering, for a fee, fake license plates, driver licenses and vehicle registrations.

more about Little Shell Pembina Band :

http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/Little_Shell.asp?LEARN_Cat=Extremism&LEARN_SubCat=Extremism_in_America&xpicked=3&item=little_shell


I wonder how many people can get jobs bringing in a Bishops list proving their age and identity while applying for a job? a drivers license? the ability to purchase a car, automobile insurance? ID is needed to buy certain farm chemicals. Heck you even need ID to buy certain cell phone packages.

[Roux]

Regarding the polygamy "summit" meeting, how about if Utah legalizes polygamy, then all who wish to participate in that lifestyle can just move there and live peacefully. It seems the entire state and government officials pander to the polygamists anyway. If that's what they want, then let them do it and stay out of other states that are not controlled by Mormons.

[Details]

Nah - no mini-theocracies in the USA - even if people want it - for one thing, while I'm fine with adults choosing, the past of merely the FLDS shows that pretty soon the adults aren't allowed to change their minds - not if they're women anyway. And the children have a right to be able to make their own choices.

[walton]

Without Federal funding and all the grants how long do you suppose it would last?

If they had to pay their share of taxes and child support how many wives do you think one man would take?

If they could continue to use child labor how long do you suppose it would take before we see a 6 year old up on equipment?

If Utah and Arizona want to continue to watch the numbers grow why should the rest of the country pay for their lack of a backbone.

If they would have followed thru with what Gov. Pyle started in 1953 we wouldn't have this problem today. jmo

[Roux]

Originally posted by Details
Nah - no mini-theocracies in the USA - even if people want it - for one thing, while I'm fine with adults choosing, the past of merely the FLDS shows that pretty soon the adults aren't allowed to change their minds - not if they're women anyway. And the children have a right to be able to make their own choices. [/*]

IMO Utah is already a mini-theocracy, they just don't say it out loud. If polygamy wasn't underground perhaps it would be easier for the children to make their own choices. Personally I think the whole idea of polygamy and plural marriage is a bunch of baloney. I fail to understand how people can accept the teachings of Joseph Smith. But that's another discussion for the religion thread I guess!

BTW did you see that attractive woman from Salt Lake on Oprah the other day? She and her polygamous family (her twin sister and one other wife IIRC) do not live underground. They were on Oprah's show before explaining their lifestyle.

[Details]

Polygamy isn't entirely illegal - we just won't formalize it in law. But if you want to live with a bunch of people, and call each other husband and wife - no biggie. Laws against adultery and cohaitation have mostly gone the way of the dodo. So there's no reason to be underground.

IMO, Utah is attempting to be a theocracy - but so long as we refuse to accept it, that holds the worst of the excesses at bay.

[Roux]

Originally posted by walton
Without Federal funding and all the grants how long do you suppose it would last?

If they had to pay their share of taxes and child support how many wives do you think one man would take?

If they could continue to use child labor how long do you suppose it would take before we see a 6 year old up on equipment?

If Utah and Arizona want to continue to watch the numbers grow why should the rest of the country pay for their lack of a backbone.

If they would have followed thru with what Gov. Pyle started in 1953 we wouldn't have this problem today. jmo [/*]

Well isn't that the whole point, ie, that Utah will not do anything about polygamy. In doing nothing, the AG is giving tacit approval. Incidentally, I was highly insulted at his describing the Texas situation as a "fiasco." I don't care how many child pornographers he's convicted, he is ----, oh heck I don't know a word but I don't like him!

[Rainkiss]

Originally posted by evalles


Then it didn't matter if they provided documentation or not, their kids were gone anyway.
Do they refuse to accept out of state ID's for everyone or just the FLDS ? [/*]

I'd have a problem accepting ANY birth certificate as identification when dealing with a group who've blatantly tried to conceal information. A birth certificate isn't proof of identity (unless it's one of the rare ones that have, say, footprints). At this point, they've had plenty of time to get a stack of birth certificates from Utah that "prove" the ages and relationships of children to adults.

[evalles]

Originally posted by Rainkiss


I'd have a problem accepting ANY birth certificate as identification when dealing with a group who've blatantly tried to conceal information. A birth certificate isn't proof of identity (unless it's one of the rare ones that have, say, footprints). At this point, they've had plenty of time to get a stack of birth certificates from Utah that "prove" the ages and relationships of children to adults. [/*]

Someone posted earlier that they wouldn't accept utah driver's licences either. Children don't have picture ID. If they have to submit to DNA, they should require it of everyone.