Michelle Marie Young 4/30/08

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by annalyzer



Why didn't she "try" when she first discovered her sister laying there?

By the time they got to that part in the 911 call it should've been well established that Michelle was dead and beyond help. [/*]

IIRC--and Scout's blog would be an excellent place to find this information--Michelle's corpse was in full rigor upon arrival at the morgue? I think rigor had passed by the time they commenced her autopsy? JMO

[jerzeegirl]

Do we have a doctor in the house to describe trying to move someone in that state? I just cant imagine it would be easy, possible im sure, but at the point you feel her cold and stiff, what is the point of rolling her over? We dont know how "twisted" she was either, weve never been shown a diagram.

[JHP]

Originally posted by forpsystudent


That would depend on the position of the body, which is an unknown factor here. JMO [/*]

ITA. Maybe we will know someday. forpsy, you've been missed!

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by jerzeegirl


Is "not easily" some kind of code for I killed my sister? I just hope noone here ever has to try to roll over their dead sister and then have their every word picked apart. To some, she couldnt do or say anything correct or to their liking. I feel bad for her to have had to witness all that. Geez if she wasnt doing drugs before, i think i would be now, at least prescripts. [/*]


LOL

"not easily"
read as probable guilt

"impossible"
read as certain guilt

"piece of cake"
read as proof of innocence?

JMO

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by jerzeegirl
Do we have a doctor in the house to describe trying to move someone in that state? I just cant imagine it would be easy, possible im sure, but at the point you feel her cold and stiff, what is the point of rolling her over? We dont know how "twisted" she was either, weve never been shown a diagram. [/*]

My recall is sssssssssssssssooooooooooo rusty.
What I recall is that Michelle's body was half lying and half sitting--kind of twisted with her face down but her feet facing the ceiling. I seem to recall livor mortis being on her back? I could be wrong though. JMO

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by JHP


ITA. Maybe we will know someday. forpsy, you've been missed! [/*]

Thanks JHP

It's good to be back.
Thanks for the kind words.:seeya:

[jerzeegirl]

Originally posted by forpsystudent



LOL

"not easily"
read as probable guilt

"impossible"
read as certain guilt

"piece of cake"
read as proof of innocence?

JMO [/*]

yeah that sounds about right.....like she should have flung her around like a rag doll. Key words, cold, stiff and twisted. May i never have to find anyone in that state.

I guess some people would be happy if she didnt call 911 at all, should have called her lawyer first, under the advise of her lawyer, shush-it, and taken CY and left the building. Whats good for the goose........

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by jerzeegirl


yeah that sounds about right.....like she should have flung her around like a rag doll. Key words, cold, stiff and twisted. May i never have to find anyone in that state.

I guess some people would be happy if she didnt call 911 at all, should have called her lawyer first, under the advise of her lawyer, shush-it, and taken CY and left the building. Whats good for the goose........ [/*]


I could not agree more.

Plus, I would like to add that medical professionals aren't always prepared for post-mortem changes, especially in a loved one. I thought Meredith had a psych degree and worked as a waitress? Even if she were in some ancillary field, like a lab tech or radiology tech, unless you work in the morgue or you work as an RN or LPN or nursing assistant or whatever, you prepare dead bodies to be taken away. Fresh dead bodies. Not bodies in full rigor. In any event, no one can state with any certainty how they would react in this situation.

JMO

[jerzeegirl]

Originally posted by june1943


There was no point of moving her once it was established she was dead. Why did it take so long to establish she was dead is my question? This is just me but I would be on top of my sister when I first entered the room. If she had done that she would have known she was dead. We have no way of knowing how long she was in the house before the 911 call but we do know it was 5 minutes before she touched the body and said it was cold and stiff. Before that she just rattled on. I question if there is a woman on this forum that wouldn't have ran to their sister the minute they saw her on the floor. Niece in the room or not nature would make you run to the aid of your sister. Why didn't Mere? [/*]


Her first words to the dispatcher was i i i think my sister is dead. Ill c/p and link it if you want. I believe she touched or nudged her before she even picked up the phone. I mean think about it......My first reaction would be to call her name as im rushing toward her on the floor, then when no response, shake her arm or nudge her to see if she moves as im still calling her name. Then run for the phone.

[annalyzer]

Originally posted by forpsystudent


IIRC--and Scout's blog would be an excellent place to find this information--Michelle's corpse was in full rigor upon arrival at the morgue? I think rigor had passed by the time they commenced her autopsy? JMO [/*]

All the more reason why Meredith should've known her sister was dead and beyond help if she had bothered to check her upon finding her laying there.

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by jerzeegirl



Her first words to the dispatcher was i i i think my sister is dead. Ill c/p and link it if you want. I believe she touched or nudged her before she even picked up the phone. I mean think about it......My first reaction would be to call her name as im rushing toward her on the floor, then when no response, shake her arm or nudge her to see if she moves as im still calling her name. Then run for the phone. [/*]


I think it was apparent from the scene that Michelle was dead and some part of Meredith DID know. It would have been completely normal for her to act in the calm, measured way that she did because of Cassidy. She would not have been thinking at the time of the level of trauma Cassidy had sustained, she just would have gone on automatic pilot in order not to inflict trauma or more trauma at least. JMO

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by jerzeegirl


yeah that sounds about right.....like she should have flung her around like a rag doll. Key words, cold, stiff and twisted. May i never have to find anyone in that state.

I guess some people would be happy if she didnt call 911 at all, should have called her lawyer first, under the advise of her lawyer, shush-it, and taken CY and left the building. Whats good for the goose........ [/*]

Jerzee, you are a breath of fresh air. Welcome to the board.

:)

[annalyzer]

Originally posted by june1943


There was no point of moving her once it was established she was dead. Why did it take so long to establish she was dead is my question? This is just me but I would be on top of my sister when I first entered the room. If she had done that she would have known she was dead. We have no way of knowing how long she was in the house before the 911 call but we do know it was 5 minutes before she touched the body and said it was cold and stiff. Before that she just rattled on. I question if there is a woman on this forum that wouldn't have ran to their sister the minute they saw her on the floor. Niece in the room or not nature would make you run to the aid of your sister. Why didn't Mere? [/*]

ITA

[jerzeegirl]

Originally posted by june1943


There was no point of moving her once it was established she was dead. Why did it take so long to establish she was dead is my question? This is just me but I would be on top of my sister when I first entered the room. If she had done that she would have known she was dead. We have no way of knowing how long she was in the house before the 911 call but we do know it was 5 minutes before she touched the body and said it was cold and stiff. Before that she just rattled on. I question if there is a woman on this forum that wouldn't have ran to their sister the minute they saw her on the floor. Niece in the room or not nature would make you run to the aid of your sister. Why didn't Mere? [/*]

with all due respect june.......where in that transcript does Meredith say that she DIDNT touch or nudge michelle before she dialed 911? For all we know while 911 was asking her questions, she was touching or nudging her. One of the first things she said was, i think shes dead. Now if she was guilty of course she would know that but cant you see the possiblility that she touched her or tried to move her before she called 911? She doesnt have to state that to the dispatcher, the dispatcher doesnt ask her if she touched her before she made the call.

[Barbara2]

Originally posted by june1943


There was no point of moving her once it was established she was dead. Why did it take so long to establish she was dead is my question? This is just me but I would be on top of my sister when I first entered the room. If she had done that she would have known she was dead. We have no way of knowing how long she was in the house before the 911 call but we do know it was 5 minutes before she touched the body and said it was cold and stiff. Before that she just rattled on. I question if there is a woman on this forum that wouldn't have ran to their sister the minute they saw her on the floor. Niece in the room or not nature would make you run to the aid of your sister. Why didn't Meredith? [/*]

Knowing it and accepting it are two different things. I just had a discussion along those lines with my daughter earlier today. She has a medical emergency a month ago and she was apologizing today for not calling me sooner. She said that even though she knew what was happening she couldn't let herself believe it. She didn't call me for over 2 hours. I hope I'm never in a situation like Meredith found herself but I don't know that I would make a lot of sense either.

Oh, when my daughter did call me I said some really dumb things on the phone as well. I'm sure you all would have ripped me apart for my response to her but I didn't want to believe what she was telling me either. (She is fine now.)

[JHP]

Originally posted by zed


There was blood spatter up the wall beside Michelle's body. There must have been blood on the floor, there was blood on the bed, and there were bloody footprints everywhere. Meredith probably checked to see if there was a pulse, but after that she knew, but didn't want to know, that her sister was deceased. [/*]

Exactly. Just today I was in my front yard and came across a dead snake. A cat had brought it over for a gift. I knew right away it was dead without taking it's pulse or rolling it over.

I feel so bad for her because what I hear on the phone is complete disbelief. She is trying to function but her mind is going so much faster then she can keep up with. Remember when she said I came here as a fluke? I think she was realizing at that moment who killed her sister.

JMO

[jerzeegirl]

Originally posted by Cardinal


Jerzee, you are a breath of fresh air. Welcome to the board.

:) [/*]

thanks cardinal, i mostly lurk, but sometimes have to jump in.

[Barbara2]

Originally posted by Fireflies_3



Glad that shes doing ok now. [/*]

Thank you. :rose:

[jerzeegirl]

Originally posted by june1943

If that was the case then when the dispatch ask why do you think she is dead why didn't she say because she is stiff and cold. She said I don't know. I need to go listen to that call again I think he ask her twice and both times she said I don't know. [/*]

never once does the dispatcher ask why do you think shes dead.......

she asks are you sure?


she asks did you see what happened?

never asks why you think shes dead.


oops sorry forgot dispatcher is a he

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by june1943


That what I'm talking about. So she tell them she is there with the baby. I couldn't make that out. It sure sounds to me like there is a animation in her voice. Like she is excited. [/*]


Like she was talking to or in front of a toddler?

[jerzeegirl]

Originally posted by Fireflies_3



Why is it that important? She was in shock when she found her imo i am sure she did the best she could at the time.:shrug: [/*]

no its not important because it never happened......

MEREDITH: I just really think she’s dead.

DISPATCHER: Pardon?

MEREDITH: I really think she’s dead.

DISPATCHER: Okay. Are you certain?

MEREDITH: Hang on. Casssidy, sweetie, please go in your room. Okay, honey?

MEREDITH: I um…I um…I’m pretty sure.

DISPATCHER: You are?

MEREDITH: I…I don’t know…I don’t know. I’m…

DISPATCHER: Okay, we need to make sure.

[Barbara2]

Originally posted by forpsystudent



Like she was talking to or in front of a toddler? [/*]

I know exactly what she's talking about. It's right at the moment when she's being transferred to the sheriff. The "excitement" isn't like the kind when you're at a party. It sounds to me more like something that she considers VERY important that she wants to tell the sheriff. I would bet if the poster listened to the tape and heard what was said right before the transfer, she might guess the cause of the animation in the voice. IMO

[jerzeegirl]

and


MEREDITH: Um…I…I…I think my sister’s dead.

DISPATCHER: Okay, tell me what happened, ma’am.

MEREDITH: I have no idea. Oh my God.

DISPATCHER: Alright stay on the phone with me please.

MEREDITH: Um.

DISPATCHER: What’s your name?

MEREDITH: Meredith Fisher

DISPATCHER: Alright, Meredith.

MEREDITH: And this is the Young address. Oh my God.

DISPATCHER: Meredith, listen to me please.

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by june1943

If that was the case then when the dispatch ask why do you think she is dead why didn't she say because she is stiff and cold. She said I don't know. I need to go listen to that call again I think he ask her twice and both times she said I don't know. [/*]


I think, and this is just my opinion, that when the dispatcher was questioning Meredith and she said she "didn't know" that she was actually trying to explain to herself (Meredith) WHAT (emphasis only) had happened to cause Michelle's death--not the fact of the death itself. If that makes sense.
JMO

[jerzeegirl]

and


DISPATCHER: Did you say...Can you tell me why she looks dead...looks like she's dead?

MEREDITH: I don't know. I have no idea. There's blood all over the place.

DISPATCHER: Okay, did you say she's cold?

MEREDITH: Sh..uh yes.

[JHP]

Originally posted by zed


I agree. I'm sure her mind was completely racing about what a fluke it was that she was at the house in the middle of the day when no one supposed to be home, only to find her niece alone with her mother's body.

I congratulate Meredith on her handling of the situation. She remained as calm as possible, did her best not to alarm CY, tried to follow directions from the 911 operator, and tried to process what she was dealing with. I doubt many people could have handled it so well; an opinion based partially on my reading here. [/*]


I know I would not have dealt with it as well. I think she did a great job too of not traumitizing Cassidy more then she already was.

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by Barbara2


I know exactly what she's talking about. It's right at the moment when she's being transferred to the sheriff. The "excitement" isn't like the kind when you're at a party. It sounds to me more like something that she considers VERY important that she wants to tell the sheriff. I would bet if the poster listened to the tape and heard what was said right before the transfer, she might guess the cause of the animation in the voice. IMO [/*]


Yup

It's that "oh my god the baby has walked out near the pool" kind of thing. JMO

[annalyzer]

Originally posted by jerzeegirl


dumb and evasive? A very ignorant remark if i must say so, and i must. Did you see what happened? No, you werent there, so your ignorance is pretty translucent. You can call it your opinion all you want, its one of the most ignorant remarks ive seen on here because she didnt pass your 911 test. Did you call the dispatcher dumb and evasive for not asking if there was anyone in the house or if CY was safe from an intruder or to get her and the child to safety? Do you think the dispatcher killed MY because of that flaw? Yeah i thought not. Should change your name from annalyzer to imheretostirthepotbetweenbothsidesandthefencesitte rs, because an annalyzer you definitely are not. [/*]

Yes I think she sounded dumb and evasive.

"Did you see what happened?"

"I don't know."

And that's just the beginning. As far as the rest of your post the term ignorance is apt. ;)

[jerzeegirl]

she says i dont know, but immediately says theres blood all over the place and asnwers that shes cold.......

so she says i dont know, but immediately answers the question

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by jerzeegirl


thanks cardinal, i mostly lurk, but sometimes have to jump in. [/*]

Jump away, jerzee. I think a fresh perspective is much needed here, and I like your style.

:biggrin:

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by annalyzer


Yes I think she sounded dumb and evasive.

"Did you see what happened?"

"I don't know."

And that's just the beginning. As far as the rest of your post the term ignorance is apt. ;) [/*]

I would hate to regret defending you, annalyzer. That was totally uncalled for.

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by june1943


You need to go listen to it again. He says can you tell me why does she look like she is dead and she says I don't know.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/audio/1119462/ [/*]


And again, I'm probably not explaining this as well as I should but I think she was answering his physical questions from a meta-physical point of view. JMO


ETA
Meaning that when he asked her "why does she look like she is dead...?", Meredith isn't having trouble describing Michelle's state of being but she IS having trouble coming to grips with WHAT happened. Does that make sense?

[Barbara2]

Originally posted by june1943


You need to go listen to it again. He says can you tell me why does she look like she is dead and she says I don't know.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/audio/1119462/ [/*]

Refer to forpsystudent's 9:10 post. She does a great job of explaining it. IMO

[jerzeegirl]

Originally posted by annalyzer


Yes I think she sounded dumb and evasive.

"Did you see what happened?"

"I don't know."

And that's just the beginning. As far as the rest of your post the term ignorance is apt. ;) [/*]


Its funny how you leave the rest of her sentence and following sentence out......thats the ignorant part

[Barbara2]

Originally posted by jerzeegirl



Its funny how you leave the rest of her sentence and following sentence out......thats the ignorant part [/*]

Taking things out of context certainly changes the meaning of things. I appreciate you copying the entire portions of the transcript to refresh the memories of those who have faded. It doesn't capture the voice inflection but it's better than the fractured pieces taken out of context.

[annalyzer]

Originally posted by jerzeegirl


never once does the dispatcher ask why do you think shes dead.......

she asks are you sure?


she asks did you see what happened?

never asks why you think shes dead.


[/*]

Yes he does.

"Can you tell me why she's dead, why she looks like she's dead?"

Not a big difference between why do you think she's dead, why is she dead or why does she look like she's dead.

[jerzeegirl]

Originally posted by june1943


The whole conversation is wrong . When he asked is any thing else out of place she says this house doesn't look like it usually does. My God her sisters teeth were laying around there was blood on the walls on a lamp and on the bed and all she says is this place doesn't look like it normally does. I would hope it doesn't unless they lived in a slaughter house. [/*]

and she does say about the blood and footprints, blood on wall and bed

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by june1943


The whole conversation is wrong . When he asked is any thing else out of place she says this house doesn't look like it usually does. My God her sisters teeth were laying around there was blood on the walls on a lamp and on the bed and all she says is this place doesn't look like it normally does. I would hope it doesn't unless they lived in a slaughter house. [/*]


But the entire conversation is in keeping with Meredith struggling to stay in the fight part of fight or flight mode. In fight mode you simultaneously take everything in cognitively but selectively take in those things you can pyschologically process. Flight mode you're just flooded and subsequently overwhelmed. She couldn't flee. Cassidy, a child she loved and cared for deeply, was there.

JMO

[annalyzer]

Originally posted by Cardinal


I would hate to regret defending you, annalyzer. That was totally uncalled for. [/*]

No, her post to me calling me ignorant was uncalled for. Just because my opinion of what Meredith sounded like on the call doesn't jive with her opinion is no excuse to call me ignorant. There was no excuse for the rest of her post either.

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


You're correct. A lot of new arrivals with selective memory it seems and with no apparent knowledge of physics.

~snipped~

jmo [/*]

I don't think the problem is selective memory or knowledge of physics.

I think the problem is "new arrivals". That seems to threaten some people. I mean, heaven forbid anyone new should show up and have an opinion. Because certain people "own" this board, right?

Pathetic, imo.

[Barbara2]

Originally posted by forpsystudent



But the entire conversation is in keeping with Meredith struggling to stay in the fight part of fight or flight mode. In fight mode you simultaneously take everything in cognitively but selectively take in those things you can pyschologically process. Flight mode you're just flooded and subsequently overwhelmed. She couldn't flee. Cassidy, a child she loved and cared for deeply, was there.

JMO [/*]

Oh, it is so nice to have you back! I hope others here can appreciate your knowledge and expertise.

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by annalyzer


No, her post to me calling me ignorant was uncalled for. Just because my opinion of what Meredith sounded like on the call doesn't jive with her opinion is no excuse to call me ignorant. There was no excuse for the rest of her post either. [/*]

There's no excuse for much of what is happening on this board, imo.

Good night.

[annalyzer]

Originally posted by zed


She was following directions and moved the pillow that was over Michelle's body at the dispatchers request, but she was also conscientious about altering the scene. [/*]

That pillow would have been moved when I first got there so I could see if I could help my sister.

[jerzeegirl]

Originally posted by annalyzer


No, her post to me calling me ignorant was uncalled for. Just because my opinion of what Meredith sounded like on the call doesn't jive with her opinion is no excuse to call me ignorant. There was no excuse for the rest of her post either. [/*]

It may have been, but you werent there, to call someone dumb because they dont act or say what YOU think they should, is certainly along those lines.

[Barbara2]

Originally posted by MandyMutton



No and a jury won't buy it, either. Michelle's "state of being" was very, really, dead and if Meredith had no problem articulating the dog was freaking out, she certainly should have had no problem articulating the condition of her very really dead sister.

JMO [/*]

You're comparing things that have no comparison. A dog freaking out is pretty easy to accept. Finding your sister dead isn't something that a normal person's brain wants to accept. BIG TIME denial for most. I can relate to Meredith's reaction because I wouldn't want to accept the fact that my sister was dead either. I would want it to be anything else but that.

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by MandyMutton



No and a jury won't buy it, either. Michelle's "state of being" was very, really, dead and if Meredith had no problem articulating the dog was freaking out, she certainly should have had no problem articulating the condition of her very really dead sister.

JMO [/*]

May you never be in the position of articulating the condition of your very really dead sister.

And I mean that sincerely.

[jerzeegirl]

Originally posted by TIAZ
And, if we are to believe the media reports and LE, the only reason Meredith was there was becase JASON sent her there to retrieve a document, yet thats not "off" or "odd" to those who continue to dissect the 911 call? Look at the big picture!

He sent her there to discover Michelle's body and save Cassidy. The accusers on this board of Meredith are an added bonus for JY. I bet even in his wildest dreams he didn't imagine Meredith being blamed for Michelle's murder.

Since I choose to look at the big picture, the reality is, if JASON LYNN YOUNG never made that call to Meredith, she would not even be a subject here. [/*]

exactly, even if hes innocent, and innocently made that phone call, she still wouldnt be under this scrutiny if it wasnt for that. She didnt just go there to stop and water the plants and wooops,, there she is......she was asked to go. Now if she were guilty, would she have gone there, or would she have called him back and said, im so busy at work, sorry. I dont know, we all dont know. She was a nice sil to go there for him, and now shes being called a killer.

[annalyzer]

Originally posted by jerzeegirl


It may have been, but you werent there, to call someone dumb because they dont act or say what YOU think they should, is certainly along those lines. [/*]

Do you even know what is the definition of dumb? :read:

[Barbara2]

Originally posted by zed


You present your opinion as though it is fact. I haven't listened to the tape for a while, but I do recall something about a pillow. I think she moved the pillow and mentioned it just after trying to move Michelle. I'll have to listen to it again, but I think there's a connection. [/*]

The dispatcher told her not to touch anything and she said that she had moved a pillow. That's what you're remembering.

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by Barbara2


Oh, it is so nice to have you back! I hope others here can appreciate your knowledge and expertise. [/*]

You're so kind.
It's good to see you too!:seeya:

[Barbara2]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


I agree, it would be big time denial. A normal person would hope the person is still alive and still try to help. Meredith keep asking if she should help her sister but she resisted touching her. Not normal at all, imo. [/*]

You can know something and not want to know something. I think that she knew her sister was dead but she didn't want to believe it. Did you ever think that maybe she was avoiding the confirmation of what she logically knew but psychologically didn't want to accept?

[jerzeegirl]

Originally posted by annalyzer


Do you even know what is the definition of dumb? :read: [/*]

dont bait me, you do to others, you said what you had to say, just as i did.

[JHP]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


The media reports are all based on what Mere told LE. Jason hasn't said if what Mere told LE is true or not. That's the big picture you refuse to see, imo. [/*]

Jason hasn't said anything... except here's my attorney.

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by MandyMutton



No and a jury won't buy it, either. Michelle's "state of being" was very, really, dead and if Meredith had no problem articulating the dog was freaking out, she certainly should have had no problem articulating the condition of her very really dead sister.

JMO [/*]


LOL


I guess it is a good thing then that I won't be called before any juries in the immediate future then huh? Seriously, a dog "freaking out" hardly equates from a pyschophysiological point of view with encountering your murdered sister's body being attended to by her daughter. JMO

[annalyzer]

Originally posted by TIAZ


Thats why I get so frustrated at the constant criticism of the 911 call. It was a normal day like any other before Jason called her to discover the horrific scene he created. I can think of no document that I could print out that I'd have to send my family over to retrieve to "hide" from my spouse. I'd simply tell him I printed something, please don't look at it, its a surprise! Its all bogus and if you want to discuss some really bizarre "abnormal" behavior, its Jason we should be discussing, not poor Meredith who is only involved because of HIM. [/*]

That's why he is my number one suspect but that doesn't lessen my belief that the 911 call was odd. Neither Jason or Meredith are talking, right? Why is there so much silence in this case? If Michelle were my daughter (or wife or sister) I'd be screaming from the rooftops for justice to be served and I would be getting in the media's face every chance I got to see that this case doesn't go cold. Why all the silence?

[Barbara2]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


The media reports are all based on what Meredith told LE. Jason hasn't said if what Meredith told LE is true or not. That's the big picture you refuse to see, imo. [/*]

So you think he just called Meredith that morning to say, "Good morning" to her? Any record of a call from him to her is suspicious. IMO

[annalyzer]

Originally posted by Fireflies_3



omg i wouldn't dare go there if i were you just drop it and get back on topic.:D [/*]

I'll "go" anywhere I please. Why don't you try staying on topic?

[Barbara2]

Originally posted by annalyzer


That's why he is my number one suspect but that doesn't lessen my belief that the 911 call was odd. Neither Jason or Meredith are talking, right? Why is there so much silence in this case? If Michelle were my daughter (or wife or sister) I'd be screaming from the rooftops for justice to be served and I would be getting in the media's face every chance I got to see that this case doesn't go cold. Why all the silence? [/*]

Witnesses have been asked not to say anything. IMO

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by zed


I concur, it's good to see you forpsy. Your insight into the 'fight or flee' instinct is interesting and helps explain the dichotomous interpretations of the 911 call. [/*]


It's fascinating stuff, or at least it is to me which probably speaks volumes about my life. Actually the fight or flight thing is right up my current alley. They can do PET scans now that detect two distinct areas of your brain that handle extreme stress and the two roads your brain tells your body to take. I understand Meredith's reaction perfectly. I understood it from a human perspective before though and that is more or less what one should expect on a site such as this, don't you think? Oh, and thanks to you too for the sentiment. It's nice to be back.
JMOOC:seeya:

[Barbara2]

Originally posted by zed


I skimmed over all the discussions about whether Jason's message to Meredith is retrievable. We know that in any organization, everything that happens on the computer is independently backed up every day or two. Phone companies back up all messages and they are probably available for several weeks. A person erasing a message reminder on their phone could not erase or delete a message on a phone server. [/*]

Absolutely true. Those messages would be saved on a server to be retrieved as needed. If the customer deletes the message, it would still be on the back up server for a period of time.

[annalyzer]

Originally posted by Barbara2


Witnesses have been asked not to say anything. IMO [/*]

Okay. How long do they plan on honoring that request? I've never seen a case before with so much silence from all involved.

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


No, I think he phoned Meredith at some point in the day after he was unable to reach Michelle.

Jason was out of town, knew his wife had a doctor's appointment and knew they had lost the last baby. So please explain why a call from him to his wife's sister would be suspicious? [/*]


It wouldn't be if he tried and failed to reach Michelle.

[annalyzer]

Originally posted by TIAZ


Jason isn't concerned. He isn't screaming from the rooftops for justice for his murdered wife and unborn child, but you all say he is just invoking his rights. [/*]

I've never said that. :no:

[jerzeegirl]

Originally posted by Barbara2


Witnesses have been asked not to say anything. IMO [/*]

well meredith isnt saying anything because she cant say anything right.

JY isnt saying anything because he was told not to.

Right? Wrong? Neither probably. They are within their rights but sure would be helpful to LE if they knew more to clear or indict either.

[Barbara2]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


No, I think he phoned Meredith at some point in the day after he was unable to reach Michelle.

Jason was out of town, knew his wife had a doctor's appointment and knew they had lost the last baby. So please explain why a call from him to his wife's sister would be suspicious? [/*]

So then where did the request for the document come from? Police have said the document was on the printer. That's a far stretch to ignore all of the known evidence to try and believe something that has no known evidence. IMO

[Barbara2]

Originally posted by annalyzer


Okay. How long do they plan on honoring that request? I've never seen a case before with so much silence from all involved. [/*]

Until the guilty person is brought to trial and the witnesses testify. That's when you'll hear from them.

[annalyzer]

Originally posted by TIAZ


Sorry, I have heard it SO MANY times here that its hard to keep who said it straight. Its the general defense of the JII's. I didn't mean to lump you in if you never said that. [/*]

No apology necessay. Just wanted to get it straight.

[jerzeegirl]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


No, I think he phoned Meredith at some point in the day after he was unable to reach Michelle.

Jason was out of town, knew his wife had a doctor's appointment and knew they had lost the last baby. So please explain why a call from him to his wife's sister would be suspicious? [/*]


i dont believe its suspicous if hes innocent, my bil called me the other day to go to his house and sit and wait for 3 hours for the ups man to deliver a tig welder (whatever that is). And when i got there, low and behold, my sil wasnt dead in the bedroom (omg thank god) But if hes guilty, it just shows that he did that to have someone go and get CY so she wouldnt be alone with her mother all day, which she pretty much did.

My point is lol, all these things can be explained away individually, its when you have mounds of this, thats when the suspisions start.

[Barbara2]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


Why would phone companies go to the expense to back up and store billions of voice messages running through their servers? What's in it for them? Once a voice message is deleted, it's gone. If you think otherwise, contact your provider.


[/*]

If your company does not have redundant backup, you should fire them. IMO.

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by TIAZ



Right. And instead of Meredith saying she was sent over on a "fluke" to retrieve a document, she would have said "he called me to check on Michelle since he could not reach her".

But that isn't what was reported. AND, if it were what Jason called her for, again, it would be easy enough to prove. [/*]

Sometimes it's easier to prove a negative. If, for instance, this were the first call JY had placed to Meredith in a long time--or ever--that is telling too.

JMO

[jerzeegirl]

Originally posted by Barbara2


If your company does not have redundant backup, you should fire them. IMO. [/*]

i can retrieve deleted voicemails from my phone companies website, i have voice over ip so i dont know if thats different than regular copper land line.

[Barbara2]

Originally posted by jerzeegirl


i can retrieve deleted voicemails from my phone companies website, i have voice over ip so i dont know if thats different than regular copper land line. [/*]

A cell phone's voice messages are saved on a server. I have no doubt that all reputable companies have a second server in case the first server crashes for any reason. The deleted messages do not immediately erase from the back up server. This is, of course, MO.

[Barbara2]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


According to the search warrants, Meredith told LE that Jason sent her to the house to retrieve documents. If I think there's a strong possibility Meredith killed Michelle, obviously I think there is a possibility Meredith lied to LE about why she was in the house.

jmo [/*]

But there was a document there and it was something that he had printed. Or do you believe that all of his friends lied too?

[Barbara2]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


Why? Name me one phone company that retains deleted voice messages. Just one.

jmo [/*]

All of them? :shrug:

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by zed


I know someone that is being monitored for physiological response to stress, and learning to remap the reaction. It's something to do with preventing headache. I don't see anything unusual in Meredith's reaction to discovering her sister's body. I have yet to read any comments describing how it could have been done better. Screaming out of the house has been suggested, but that's anything but a better reaction. [/*]

Exactly. This dual circuitry, for lack of a better term, is what makes biofeedback so successful. Your brain prepares you for physical flight but gives you a second to reassess whether you need to or not. Biofeedback is taking control of the switchback.
jmooc

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


Why? Name me one phone company that retains deleted voice messages. Just one.

jmo [/*]


Verizon.

[Barbara2]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


I asked for only one. Good luck. [/*]

Mine does.

ETA: And it's not Verizon.

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by TIAZ


Hey! Its good to see you!!!!

Since Meredith said it was a "fluke" I would tend to think she never got a request from JY like this before. [/*]


Hey Tiaz!

Yup, fluke is a pretty descriptive term.

[Barbara2]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


What's the name of your phone company? [/*]

Not something I care to share.

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


I know Verizon doesn't retain deleted voice messages. There is no reason to do so and the cost would be prohibitive.

Try again. [/*]


Nextel?
Sprint?
Alltel?

Can I have a few more minutes?

[Barbara2]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


I know Verizon doesn't retain deleted voice messages. There is no reason to do so and the cost would be prohibitive.

Try again. [/*]

The cost is not prohibitive. It's a back up server. That's already in place. This really is another topic that has nothing to do with this case and derails the conversation. It doesn't matter. It doesn't impact the outcome of this case. IMO

[Barbara2]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


typical.

:rolleyes: [/*]

Very typical. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by Barbara2


The cost is not prohibitive. It's a back up server. That's already in place. This really is another topic that has nothing to do with this case and derails the conversation. It doesn't matter. It doesn't impact the outcome of this case. IMO [/*]

Thanks for going after that ball Barbara2.
MandyMutton:

Verizon most assuredly keeps records of all voice messages including those which the client opts to delete and it does so for 14 days on it's, as *2 stated, backup server. The cost is not prohibitive. It is all 010101010101010101010 to it anyway.
JMO

[annalyzer]

Originally posted by zed


I don't see anything unusual in Meredith's reaction to discovering her sister's body. I have yet to read any comments describing how it could have been done better. [/*]

Uh, checking her out to see if there was any way she could help her would be a start. She didn't know if Michelle was breathing or not. She didn't check her pulse until well into the call.

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by TIAZ


I guess the discussion was not argumentive enough for Mandy so she had to throw that in???

JMO of course:biggrin: [/*]


Oh, I dunno.
I was left out of the "typical" group.
Just like High School all over again.:)

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


Police haven't said it was a gift. And the NC Wanted program wasn't a documentary.

Meredith's claim of why she was at the house can't be corroborated through cell phone records if she deleted the message and LE didn't listen to it. That's a fact whether you believe it or not.

It's impossible to debate the variety of garbage you throw out and insist are facts.

jmo [/*]


When debating garbage I find it useful to consider quality as well as variety.
...just sayin'


JMOOC:biggrin:

[Barbara2]

Originally posted by annalyzer


Uh, checking her out to see if there was any way she could help her would be a start. She didn't know if Michelle was breathing or not. She didn't check her pulse until well into the call. [/*]

You don't know that. You don't know what she did or didn't do before she picked up the phone. She was in a state of shock and denial (IMO) and wasn't following the script that some here believe she should have been following. She did not want to accept the fact that her sister was dead even though the evidence of this fact was overwhelming. IMO

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by zed


What are you saying? The police said the scene was one of the most horrific they had scene, yet you think Meredith had to interact with Michelle's body to know if she was deceased? [/*]

Let's take this one step further.
Meredith didn't call 911 and ask to speak to the police.
She called 911 and asked for an ambulance.
Cognitively she was punching all the right buttons.
Psychologically, not so much.

jmo

[annalyzer]

Originally posted by zed


What are you saying? The police said the scene was one of the most horrific they had scene, yet you think Meredith had to interact with Michelle's body to know if she was deceased? [/*]

How long into that five minute phone call was it finally established that Michelle was in fact dead? If she had checked her sister when she first found her she would've known she was dead. She wouldn't have said I think my sister's dead. She would've said my sister is dead. And who walking into that "horrific" scene would not have known right away that a murder had occurred?

[Barbara2]

Originally posted by annalyzer


How long into that five minute phone call was it finally established that Michelle was in fact dead? If she had checked her sister when she first found her she would've known she was dead. She wouldn't have said I think my sister's dead. She would've said my sister is dead. And who walking into that "horrific" scene would not have known right away that a murder had occured? [/*]

Do you think that maybe she "knew" but didn't want to accept it? It's not like you're walking in and finding your dog has chewed up your slippers. This is a SHOCKING event. Some people would go into shock at seeing something like this. Their body might continue to move and their mouth might form words but part of their brain isn't receiving the information. It's not NORMAL when you are witnessing or receiving information that is traumatic and life changing. I can speak from experience on this point. She didn't react like a "normal" person because the scene she walked into was not "normal". IMO

[Kat4Eagles]

Originally posted by zed


CY thought her mom could be fixed with bandaids. 2 year olds don't have a concept of death and it's permanence. I'm sure she has a much better understanding of it now.

Furthermore, she'd been alone and awake for about 6 hours with her mother's body, so she was probably all cried out when her Aunt arrived, and tremendously relieved that someone had arrived who could fix things. [/*]

Why do you think C was with Michelle for 6 hours?
She certainly did not sound as if she needed anything, like food or water .
The only thing she asked for was a washcloth.

:shrug:

Kat

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by annalyzer


How long into that five minute phone call was it finally established that Michelle was in fact dead? If she had checked her sister when she first found her she would've known she was dead. She wouldn't have said I think my sister's dead. She would've said my sister is dead. And who walking into that "horrific" scene would not have known right away that a murder had occured? [/*]

How do you know this? What is the basis of your reasoning?
There isn't any logic in tragedy. Everyone, and this includes you, is in the dark about how they will handle any given situation on any given day. Now raise the psychological stakes exponentially and your resulting opinion is just that, an opinion. We have all heard and discussed what was on that tape and the only people who find it at all extraordinary are the people who want Jason Young not to have--in all probability--killed his wife and unborn son. Now maybe you are ignoring the IMO clamoring logic because the thought of a woman's husband doing something so heinous, so cruel, is something you cannot conceive of with emotional comfort. So be it. Some other people think otherwise, ok? If your sister has been murdered and you were the one to find her body, I apologize.

[Kat4Eagles]

Originally posted by zed


She was following directions and moved the pillow that was over Michelle's body at the dispatchers request, but she was also conscientious about altering the scene. [/*]

The dispatcher did not ask the only sister to move a pillow.
She volunteered that 411 all by herself.

Why did she think that was so necessary to tell him?

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Originally posted by zed


Meredith was trying to remove CY from the scene, but she wasn't having much success. Maybe it was obvious that her sister was dead without touching anything. The police said it was one of the most horrific (not sure of the exact word) scenes they had seen. Meredith was not stupid, so if it was horrific to the police, it was probably obvious to Meredith.

She did her best, and I commend her on handling the situation as well as she did. [/*]



You have to be kidding.

All she had to do to remove C from the scene was to take her from the home to somewhere close that was safe......

Good thing, the murderer wasn't still there, or we would be talking about 3 dead people....

Unreal.

:(

Kat

[Barbara2]

Originally posted by Kat4Eagles




You have to be kidding.

All she had to do to remove C from the scene was to take her from the home to somewhere close that was safe......

Good thing, the murderer wasn't still there, or we would be talking about 3 dead people....

Unreal.

:(

Kat [/*]

The murderer was no longer there. There was no immediate danger in the house. You're talking about a hypothetical situation that did not exist. Your armchair 20/20 hindsight analysis just to try and make Meredith look bad is not productive. It adds nothing to this case except pettiness. Pardon the pun but it really does make you appear very "catty", IMO.

[Kat4Eagles]

Originally posted by TIAZ


Since Jason called her to retrieve a doument, I am sure she had a good guess as to who killed her sister.

Unreal. [/*]

So, she tells police that Jason killed her sister, takes C back to her home, invites Jason to spend the nite, and then later at the funeral home hugs him, and then weeks later wants to move in with him and C.........

I saw this episode on Melrose Place.

I think it was Sydney, Michael and Jane...

Kat

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by zed


What were the first words spoken by Meredith when she called 911.

What is your point? Do you think that Meredith said "I think my sister is dead" and then suddenly thought she was alive? [/*]


I think some people are missing the point zed and maybe not accidentally. Have you ever read any of Stephen King's books? He is, in case you've not heard of him, known for his fictional but oh so close to real as to be even more frightening works of horror. Want to know how he does it? If you've read him, or have one of his books handy, notice how he writes. He very effectively, IMO, uses stream-of-consciousness narrative. He doesn't make you read the story so much as live it. Stream of consciousness narrative fuses the reader with the author emotionally and that is one reason why what King writes is so frightening--because it strikes a chord in all of us. We have all been afraid to look under the bed, etc. When I heard Meredith's voice on that 911 call I had the same type of reaction. Meredith wasn't just relating a set of facts to the 911 dispatcher, she was narrating a horrid event that she was living at that very minute--her consciousness was streaming and she wasn't exactly editing for content ya know? When we are in doubt we all go back to basics. Meredith's lack of sophistication was the only reaction that she could have had. Hope that makes sense.

[Kat4Eagles]

Originally posted by Barbara2


The murderer was no longer there. There was no immediate danger in the house. You're talking about a hypothetical situation that did not exist. Your armchair 20/20 hindsight analysis just to try and make Meredith look bad is not productive. It adds nothing to this case except pettiness. Pardon the pun but it really does make you appear very "catty", IMO. [/*]

And, how would anyone know the murderer was not still there?
Did she check the home to make sure?
But, then why would she?
Other than a dog, a child, blood, and a dead body, why should she even think of the word" danger"?

Kat

[annalyzer]

Originally posted by forpsystudent


How do you know this? What is the basis of your reasoning?
There isn't any logic in tragedy. Everyone, and this includes you, is in the dark about how they will handle any given situation on any given day. Now raise the psychological stakes exponentially and your resulting opinion is just that, an opinion. We have all heard and discussed what was on that tape and the only people who find it at all extraordinary are the people who want Jason Young not to have--in all probability--killed his wife and unborn son. Now maybe you are ignoring the IMO clamoring logic because the thought of a woman's husband doing something so heinous, so cruel, is something you cannot conceive of with emotional comfort. So be it. Some other people think otherwise, ok? If your sister has been murdered and you were the one to find her body, I apologize. [/*]

Oh lord, a great big :rolleyes: .

I follow murder cases all of the time. To say I cannot conceive (with emotional comfort :rolleyes: ) the thought of a woman's husband doing something this heinous is just laughable.

Oh, and I couldn't care less whether it was Jason who killed Michelle and I find the call "extraordinary".

The basis for my reasoning? Listening to the 911 call.

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by annalyzer


Oh lord, a great big :rolleyes: .

I follow murder cases all of the time. To say I cannot conceive (with emotional comfort :rolleyes: ) the thought of a woman's husband doing something this heinous is just laughable.

Oh, and I couldn't care less whether it was Jason who killed Michelle and I find the call "extraordinary".

The basis for my reasoning? Listening to the 911 call. [/*]


So, all the circumstantial evidence means nada to you?
You've got the killer nailed based on her sub-par performance, in your opinion, during what has to have been the worst moments of her life. Meanwhile, back at the proverbial ranch...
JMO:(

[annalyzer]

Originally posted by TIAZ


Maybe because she had EMT training?
:shrug: [/*]

:eek: You've got to be kidding me. :eek:

[Kat4Eagles]

Originally posted by annalyzer


:eek: You've got to be kidding me. :eek: [/*]

I know it.
It makes it even worse. :rolleyes:

But they are going to get Jason , don't worry!!

18 months and mountains of evidence later..........

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Originally posted by zed


Come off it. We all know that she didn't tell the police that Jason killed Michelle. She was the nearest relative to look after CY until Jason arrived, so nothing strange. Jason is her brother in law so offering him a place to stay so CY doesn't have to be woken up is normal.

What are you talking about? [/*]

Zed, I was answering the poster who thought it was not necessary to be scared or look for an intruder, cause the only sister knew from the minute she walked in the door, that Jason had killed Michelle.
:rolleyes:

Kat

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by zed


I have never had any doubts about the authenticity of Meredith's phone call. I doubted that Jason was guilty for about 6 weeks, but for different reasons. [/*]

zed:

I hope you didn't think I meant that you were one of the "but she HAS to be guilty, that was one of the lamest 911 calls I've ever heard. Ok, so, maybe I haven't heard that MANY 911 calls, whatever, but if I DID they would have all sounded like I think they should have sounded..." crowd.*

*caps for emphasis only
JMOOC

[Kat4Eagles]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


You sure seem to have comprehension problems.

I believe Meredith murdered her sister prior to Jason's call. Is that clear enough for ya?

jmo [/*]

27 pages later............time for a new thread?

If Jason gets arrested , PM me collect!!

Nite.......

Kat

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by annalyzer


I thought you flew the "coop". Looks like you'll be flying again real soon if you can't address posters by their nic. :no: [/*]


Et tu annalyzer?

[annalyzer]

Originally posted by Fireflies_3




Your getting on my last nerve:cuss: [/*]

And why is that? Why would you take offense because I'm shocked that Meredith had EMT training? Hmmm?

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by annalyzer


Even I what? [/*]


Context.

[annalyzer]

Originally posted by forpsystudent



Context. [/*]

Oh was you here last night? ;)

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by annalyzer


Oh was you here last night? ;) [/*]


What?

Et tu annalyzer?
Never mind.
I thought you would get it.

[annalyzer]

Originally posted by zed


I gave you the link a couple of days ago to your esteemed source, Nancy Grace, stating that CY was found with her mother's body. What more do you need? [/*]

Nancy only reported what she was told. She wasn't there.

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by zed


Not according to your preferred sources.

Wasn't the date the show aired, November 16, the same day that the house was released? [/*]

Nancy Grace did a show on Michelle in November and it is still being talked about?

[annalyzer]

Originally posted by zed


Not according to your preferred sources.

Wasn't the date the show aired, November 16, the same day that the house was released? [/*]

Wasn't NG going by what she read/heard in the 911 transcript/video?

[annalyzer]

Originally posted by forpsystudent


Nancy Grace did a show on Michelle in November and it is still being talked about? [/*]

Only when someone brings it up as a source of information.

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by annalyzer


Only when someone brings it up as a source of information. [/*]


Oh.
Does that happen more or less often than a lunar eclipse?
TIa

[annalyzer]

Originally posted by forpsystudent



Oh.
Does that happen more or less often than a lunar eclipse?
TIa [/*]

I have no idea. Ask zed. :shrug:

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by annalyzer


I have no idea. Ask zed. :shrug: [/*]

I beg your pardon.

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


yes but apparently not in Zed's world. That's altogether another metaphysical plane of reality. [/*]

Is that supposed to be some sort of insult to me MM?

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by zed


Where to you think the customer's messages are stored, in their phone? [/*]


Is this a metaphysical question?
If so, that would be MandyMutton's department.
:rolleyes:

[annalyzer]

Originally posted by forpsystudent


I beg your pardon. [/*]

:confused:

[annalyzer]

Originally posted by forpsystudent


Is that supposed to be some sort of insult to me MM? [/*]

:rolleyes:

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by annalyzer


:rolleyes: [/*]

Refresh my memory for me annalyzer.
Exactly when was it I befouled your Wheaties?
TIA

[annalyzer]

Originally posted by forpsystudent


Refresh my memory for me annalyzer.
Exactly when was it I befouled your Wheaties?
TIA [/*]

You'd never get the chance to befoul my Wheaties.

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by annalyzer


You'd never get the chance to befoul my Wheaties. [/*]

The question was rhetorical.
Your retort was a little over the top even so.
I did not recall you having animosity toward me.
Notwithstanding the enormity of it's impact I must confess it may have slipped my mind. My bad.

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by zed


I know the killer is under the watchful eye of the police, and they were recently snooping around his vehicle and bedroom with the blessing of a Judge. I'm sure he's always going to be afraid of moving out of mommy's house to spare his family having to move his things one more time.

PS: I don't think he will have much contact with the women on death row. [/*]

Well, not a genetically predestined woman anyway.

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by zed


I'm sure he'll get along well with Mike Peterson. [/*]


Oh my.
I just now realized how similar those two are.

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by zed


Both had lots of blood, spatter up the wall, and repeated beatings for starters. They both wanted social status and hoped their wives could offer it, both will go down in history as missing their their nuts. [/*]

I was thinking along the lines of ugly.
IMO anyway.

[alter ego]

Originally posted by zed


Yes, we all need a link from you supporting your suggestion that electronic messages are not stored after an individual deletes a message, or that an individual cell phone can delete a message from a corporate server. That is what you are suggesting, and which contradicts already provided links. Now, it's your turn to provide something to support your suggestion.

It's not enough to keep repeating yourself, no one has that much credibility around here. [/*]

Can I retrieve a voicemail message that I deleted?
You can only retrieve deleted messages if you are still logged into the voicemail system.

While still in the voicemail system:

Press * to go back to the Main Menu
Press 6 to hear your deleted messages
The system will begin to play your deleted messages. After listening to the message you can:

Press 9 to mark it as a new message
Press # to skip to the next message
Press 0 for more options
Press * to go back to the Main Menu

Once you have logged out of the voicemail system, your deleted messages are removed completely.

http://www.comcast.com/Customers/Faq/FaqDetails.ashx?Id=3076


Deleted Messages

Once a message is deleted and the call to voicemail ended, the message cannot be retrieved.
http://www.wireless.att.com/answer-center/main.jsp?t=solutionTab&solutionId=KB25563

[alter ego]

Originally posted by zed


Both had lots of blood, spatter up the wall, and repeated beatings for starters. They both wanted social status and hoped their wives could offer it, both will go down in history as missing their their nuts. [/*]Is there a credible link to support your claim that Jason wanted social status and that he hoped his wife could offer it?

[annalyzer]

Originally posted by alter ego
Is there a credible link to support your claim that Jason wanted social status and that he hoped his wife could offer it? [/*]

That part is just laughable. I want to know where he heard of the "repeated beatings". Is there anything to back up the claim? Any record of 911 calls of domestic violence? Any photos of bruises? Any record of trips to the ER?

Or is this just another vicious rumor started to cast Jason in a bad light?

[JHP]

Originally posted by annalyzer


That part is just laughable. I want to know where he heard of the "repeated beatings". Is there anything to back up the claim? Any record of 911 calls of domestic violence? Any photos of bruises? Any record of trips to the ER?

Or is this just another vicious rumor started to cast Jason in a bad light? [/*]

Perhaps that poster was pointing out the multiple times Michelle was struck the night she was killed. I believe some people have referred to it as overkill.

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by JHP


Perhaps that poster was pointing out the multiple times Michelle was struck the night she was killed. I believe some people have referred to it as overkill. [/*]

That's the way I interpreted it, the second time I read it.

[Barbara2]

Originally posted by alter ego


Can I retrieve a voicemail message that I deleted?
You can only retrieve deleted messages if you are still logged into the voicemail system.

While still in the voicemail system:

Press * to go back to the Main Menu
Press 6 to hear your deleted messages
The system will begin to play your deleted messages. After listening to the message you can:

Press 9 to mark it as a new message
Press # to skip to the next message
Press 0 for more options
Press * to go back to the Main Menu

Once you have logged out of the voicemail system, your deleted messages are removed completely.

http://www.comcast.com/Customers/Faq/FaqDetails.ashx?Id=3076


Deleted Messages

Once a message is deleted and the call to voicemail ended, the message cannot be retrieved.
http://www.wireless.att.com/answer-center/main.jsp?t=solutionTab&solutionId=KB25563 [/*]

Not by the owner but by a police request. Cell phone companies do not want consumers calling them everyday asking for deleted messages. I don't know that all companies have this but some do (for police requests) ranging from a few hours (like a rollover time of 2 a.m.) to a few days. I know because I checked.

[Jules2]

Originally posted by alter ego


Can I retrieve a voicemail message that I deleted?
You can only retrieve deleted messages if you are still logged into the voicemail system.

While still in the voicemail system:

Press * to go back to the Main Menu
Press 6 to hear your deleted messages
The system will begin to play your deleted messages. After listening to the message you can:

Press 9 to mark it as a new message
Press # to skip to the next message
Press 0 for more options
Press * to go back to the Main Menu

Once you have logged out of the voicemail system, your deleted messages are removed completely.

http://www.comcast.com/Customers/Faq/FaqDetails.ashx?Id=3076


Deleted Messages

Once a message is deleted and the call to voicemail ended, the message cannot be retrieved.
http://www.wireless.att.com/answer-center/main.jsp?t=solutionTab&solutionId=KB25563 [/*]


The first link you provided is for Comcast digital home phone service. I am not aware of Comcast being a cell phone provider.

Google cell phone forensics and several links are displayed that show how even deleted data can be retrieved from cell phones. LE has used specific data retrieval tools in many cases.

If the cell phone has a SIM card, then much of the data is stored until the memory becomes full and it is over-written. Several cell phone providers keep deleted voice mails on their servers from 48 hours up to two weeks. This is even if the cell phone owner has deleted text messages and or voice mails. Deleted data can also remain in the SIM card for an indefinite period of time depending on when the data is overwritten when the SIM card's memory should become full.

[annalyzer]

Originally posted by JHP


Perhaps that poster was pointing out the multiple times Michelle was struck the night she was killed. I believe some people have referred to it as overkill. [/*]

Multiple beatings translates into multiple blows? I don't think so. Michelle incurred a beating before her death. Multiple beatings means she was beat more than once.

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by annalyzer


Multiple beatings translates into multiple blows? I don't think so. Michelle incurred a beating before her death. Multiple beatings means she was beat more than once. [/*]

We could just ask to poster to clarify what they meant, rather than drawing inferences.

[alter ego]

Originally posted by Barbara2


Not by the owner but by a police request. Cell phone companies do not want consumers calling them everyday asking for deleted messages. I don't know that all companies have this but some do (for police requests) ranging from a few hours (like a rollover time of 2 a.m.) to a few days. I know because I checked. [/*]I can't find one single instance of LE ever getting a court order for a cell phone provider to retrieve a deleted voice msg.

Deleted phone msgs are not kept as a matter of course, that 'space' is reused at rates that cannot be predicted or controlled.

[annalyzer]

Originally posted by Cardinal


We could just ask to poster to clarify what they meant, rather than drawing inferences. [/*]

I took it literally. :shrug:

I also believe this same rumor was posted on here before. But if I'm wrong I apologize. :seeya:

[alter ego]

Originally posted by annalyzer


That part is just laughable. I want to know where he heard of the "repeated beatings". Is there anything to back up the claim? Any record of 911 calls of domestic violence? Any photos of bruises? Any record of trips to the ER?

Or is this just another vicious rumor started to cast Jason in a bad light? [/*]I thought there were posts at one time stating Jason had a history of being physically abusive, I think the car crash was used to promote that line of "reason".

And yeah, yet another rumor.

[annalyzer]

Originally posted by alter ego
I can't find one single instance of LE ever getting a court order for a cell phone provider to retrieve a deleted voice msg.

Deleted phone msgs are not kept as a matter of course, that 'space' is reused at rates that cannot be predicted or controlled. [/*]

The only thing I have ever seen in cases is LE tracking the pings of the cellphone to be able to ascertain where the perp was when the call was made. But with today's technology I wouldn't doubt that LE could retrieve an erased msg. in a certain time period.

[alter ego]

Originally posted by Blaze



Yes, I have heard Jason's sister is being watched as well. This would also explain why Gojo has inserted himself into the case. There is a lot at stake. [/*]Really? Is that why RPD inserted himself into the case too, cuz there is so much at stake?

[annalyzer]

Originally posted by alter ego
I thought there were posts at one time stating Jason had a history of being physically abusive, I think the car crash was used to promote that line of "reason".

And yeah, yet another rumor. [/*]

Yes I believe you're right because there was a long discussion about why Michelle wouldn't have told certain people she was being abused and the possibility that was the reason why she was seeing a therapist.

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by annalyzer


Yes I believe you're right because there was a long discussion about why Michelle wouldn't have told certain people she was being abused and the possibility that was the reason why she was seeing a therapist. [/*]

I'm glad I missed that discussion. I don't believe Michelle was being physically abused.

JMO

[alter ego]

Originally posted by annalyzer


The only thing I have ever seen in cases is LE tracking the pings of the cellphone to be able to ascertain where the perp was when the call was made. But with today's technology I wouldn't doubt that LE could retrieve an erased msg. in a certain time period. [/*]I dunno, annalyzer...it's my understanding that the search would be problematic since the provider has no way to know where on the server, or which server, the msg was left on. They would have to look at ALL servers and listen to millions of messages.

I've seen cases where deleted text msgs were retrieved, but never where a deleted voice msg was retrieved or asked to be retrieved.

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by alter ego
I dunno, annalyzer...it's my understanding that the search would be problematic since the provider has no way to know where on the server, or which server, the msg was left on. They would have to look at ALL servers and listen to millions of messages.

I've seen cases where deleted text msgs were retrieved, but never where a deleted voice msg was retrieved or asked to be retrieved. [/*]

I would be really surprised if the case hinges on the existence of the actual voicemail message. Meredith's phone would still have shown the incoming call, or not. I don't think the content of the call will matter.

JMO

[alter ego]

Originally posted by zed


Not that I don't have better things to do this morning, but:

You can log into your mailbox and select option 1 to get to the Review Messages menu. If you have previously saved messages you will be prompted to select option 7. While listening to deleted messages press 2 to save it back to the active voicemail queue or press 3 to re-delete the message.
Help Desk: Sprint-Coral Voice Mail FAQs - NetCom - Office of...•Related

http://www.querycat.com/faq/72723fbe453bb5e1fadfd4f1c17237f8

There's lots more info related to VM servers, voice message storage, SIMS memory cards in the phone, and voice message retrieval on the net. It is possible, but I doubt it's widely available to every teenage girl that accidentally deleted a message and wants it restored now. [/*]

uh, your link is to the Univerisity of Utah and instructions on how to use their inhouse phonemail system. We are discussing deleted voice messages from a cell phone.

[alter ego]

Originally posted by zed


"Most cell phone owners think simply removing a phone's SIM card removes personal information, but the phone's internal memory, even communication exchanged between the phone and its server, remain. Phone manuals detail how to perform multiple reset commands to erase personal information and some online recycling phone services offer command sets for specific phones, but most people never bother to go through the tedious process, Mislan says. For example, child predators who stalk "moblogs" — the cell phone equivalent of web blogs that are popular with young phone users — may believe they have deleted text messages and postings, but the evidence may still exist within the phone's memory. Mislan recently examined the cell phone of an alleged child pornography ringleader and pulled off 250 "deleted" contacts from its memory."

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1653267,00.html [/*]

What does a text msg have to do with a voice message?

And a SIM card does not house voice messages.

[alter ego]

Originally posted by zed


Of course not. That's my opinion. Jason was the dorky guy standing at the bar while Michelle and her friends were the life of the party. We've heard rumors of Jason swallowing rings to get attention. We know that Jason frequently changed jobs, presumably because he frequently had difficulties succeeding. Michelle had a past and future with promise of success.

"Michelle made work fun by always taking the initiative to organize social events and to recognize her co-workers' personal and professional achievements. Michelle was an outstanding professional who had a very promising future."
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1063178/ [/*]
Looks like your opinion is based on rumors and presumptions based on nothing.

[alter ego]

Originally posted by zed


I believe the line under that quote was this:

Help Desk: Sprint-Coral Voice Mail FAQs - NetCom - Office of...•Related

I'd love to spend the day bantering with you about cell phone message retrieval, but I think the Time Magazine article answers all your questions. [/*]

Time magazine article says nothing about voice mail :confused:

Click that line under your quote, it goes right to the Univ of Utah website:

http://www.it.utah.edu/services/helpDesk/phonehelp/ngv/ngvvoicemail_faq.html#lostpassword

[alter ego]

Originally posted by zed


There is no doubt that Jason frequently changed jobs, and there is no doubt that Michelle had a promising future. The same has never been said about Jason.

Both are based on fact. [/*]No it's not a fact that that has "never" been said about Jason.

It's just a presumption of yours.

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by june1943


You are absolutely right. Had this statement gone unchallenged next week it would be a proven fact Michelle was a battered woman. This is how they get their rumors started. [/*]

The original poster did not state that Michelle was a battered woman. That was a misinterpretation of the poster's statement. Neither of them were starting any rumors, imo. It was a misunderstanding.

[alter ego]

Originally posted by zed


There are published statements to prove that it has been said about Michelle. There is nothing to prove that it has been said about Jason, so it's safe to assume it hasn't happened. Furthermore, it's not exactly common for a guy that changes jobs every few months, or who is out of work for months, to be described as a guy with a promising future.

It is my logical conclusion, not a presumption. [/*]it was published in the media about Michelle to honor her memory. Had she not been murdered, it is highly unlikely you would have read anything about her in the media.

It is common for sales people to change jobs on a regular basis and yes, salesmen who change jobs frequently can have a promising future in sales.

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by alter ego
well duh, it was published in the media about Michelle to honor her memory. Had she not been murdered, it is highly unlikely you would have read anything about her in the media.

It is common for sales people to change jobs on a regular basis and yes, salesmen who change jobs frequently can have a promising future in sales.

So much for your logic. [/*]

True, it's common for "promising" sales people to change jobs on a regular basis; however, they typically leave one job and go straight to the better one, without several months of unemployment in between.

JMO

[alter ego]

Originally posted by Cardinal


True, it's common for "promising" sales people to change jobs on a regular basis; however, they typically leave one job and go straight to the better one, without several months of unemployment in between.

JMO [/*]Wait a minute, when was Jason's employment history made public?

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by alter ego
Wait a minute, when was Jason's employment history made public? [/*]

I have no idea. I was talking about sales people.

[alter ego]

Originally posted by Blaze


Like Gojo has a personal connection to Jason, RPD had one to Michelle. [/*]
:lol: No he didn't, his neighbor did.

RPD admits that intrigue was his motivation to see the photos, because his neighbor was a friend of Young.
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1196458/

[alter ego]

Originally posted by Cardinal


I have no idea. I was talking about sales people. [/*]Oh ok.

[alter ego]

Originally posted by Blaze



Wouldn't that be considered a personal connection? Are we now going to spend hours defining that term? It seems discussion of voice mail has reached its end, finally. [/*]No, a personal connection to someone is not when you know someone who knows them.

sheesh.

[annalyzer]

Originally posted by zed


In Mike Peterson's trial (which is off topic) there was smeared blood over dried blood spatter. In Michelle's case, there were 10 to 20 blunt force wounds. I don't see any doubt in whether there was a repeated beating. [/*]

Repeated blows . A beating means to strike repeatedly. If there was a repeated beating that would mean she had been beaten on more than one occasion.

[Jules2]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


have you noticed over the last 18 months how every single one of those rumors has fizzled into duds?

:beer: [/*]


Just like all the rumors about Meredith?

Fizzled.........kaput.........nothing more than hot air floating on the breeze.

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


It's yet another bizarre claim that poster pulls from thin air. Michelle wasn't a socialite and there is absolutely nothing to indicate Jason married her to achieve social status that he couldn't achieve otherwise. [/*]

I don't think Jason is the country club type either. And that's a good thing, because if even ONE of the RUMORS about his partying is true, he wouldn't fit in.

:biggrin:

[Jules2]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


hot air created by Meredith herself on various 'net postings. Can't put that genie back in the bottle.

:biggrin: [/*]


Net postings from how many years ago, again?

The only hot air, is that which has been created by those few posters who have nothing better to do than to attack the sister of the murder victim. An attack based on desperation. IMO

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


hot air created by Meredith herself on various 'net postings. Can't put that genie back in the bottle.

:biggrin: [/*]

Why would anyone want to put "that genie back in the bottle"? Even if Meredith has used recreational drugs, I don't see the relevance to Michelle's murder. LE has at no time said the murder was drug-related.

JMO

[Kat4Eagles]

Originally posted by alter ego

:lol: No he didn't, his neighbor did.

RPD admits that intrigue was his motivation to see the photos, because his neighbor was a friend of Young.
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1196458/ [/*]

I like the part that says despite his screen name he is not a Raleigh Police Officer.
I wonder why he chose that name.

I bet the cops love him, lol.

:)
Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Originally posted by zed


Come off it. We all know that she didn't tell the police that Jason killed Michelle. She was the nearest relative to look after CY until Jason arrived, so nothing strange. Jason is her brother in law so offering him a place to stay so CY doesn't have to be woken up is normal.

What are you talking about? [/*]


I would like to know the first time L F started to suspect Jason..
Before or after she got to Raleigh?
Before or after she heard about MM?

?

Kat

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


I don't believe LE gave the info to LF, I think it was the other way around. And LE would have immediately given the info to Jason's friends and family in order to divide and conquer. I think they also would have immediately questioned MM about it because she would be considered a suspect. Evidently LE had their own doubts about the validity of the information and decided to puruse it with a s/w. We've heard nothing since that search warrant. I still believe we've heard nothing more because they found nothing.

~snipped~
[/*]

I asked this question the other day, but I don't believe I ever got a response.

How would LF have known about MM unless Michelle told her?

[Kat4Eagles]

Originally posted by Cardinal


I don't think Jason is the country club type either. And that's a good thing, because if even ONE of the RUMORS about his partying is true, he wouldn't fit in.

:biggrin: [/*]

So, Card, how did the only sister measure up to all the young professional friends Michelle and Jason had?

How did Michelle introduce her?

Oh, this is my sister.................,she is a waitress.
She has a 4 year degree , but, has not bothered to do anything with it.'
But, maybe someday.
We still have hopes for her after~all.
She was our Nanny for awhile, but that didn't work out either.
Mom brought her a house so she doesn't have to go back in NY.
Why did she leave?, oh, well, you would have to ask her.
There are certain things we don't talk about.
Oh, well, she is still my sister and I love her...

Something like that?

Was she invited to the NC homecoming?

Kat

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by Kat4Eagles


So, Card, how did the only sister measure up to all the young professional friends Michelle and Jason had?

How did Michelle introduce her?

Oh, this is my sister.................,she is a waitress.
She has a 4 year degree , but, has not bothered to do anything with it.'
But, maybe someday.
We still have hopes for her after~all.
She was our Nanny for awhile, but that didn't work out either.
Mom brought her a house so she doesn't have to go back in NY.
Why did she leave?, oh, well, you would have to ask her.
There are certain things we don't talk about.
Oh, well, she is still my sister and I love her...

Something like that?

Was she invited to the NC homecoming?

Kat [/*]

What makes you think Meredith was interested in meeting Michelle and Jason's young professional friends? Maybe she found them boring. Maybe she preferred her own friends.

And maybe Michelle just said, "John and Sally, this is my sister, Meredith."

[Kat4Eagles]

Originally posted by june1943

I would like to know where LF was when Michelle was murdered? Was she already in Raleigh? Its be rumored on the forum that she was spending time with Michelle and Jason and was a thorn in Jason's side. So where was she when Michelle was murdered? Before any one jumps me I am in no way saying LF had anything to do with Michelles murder. [/*]


Rumor is she stayed with Michelle and Jason after C was born, but she was in NY the day Michellle was murdered , and no ,I don't think she had anything to do with the murder at all, but she may have played a part in keeping the girls from their Dad when they were growing up, or even causing some of the sister rivalry.
Cheerleading can be very competitive...and Michelle was chosen to go to the Olympics to cheer, and, oh ~no~madison, the other sister stayed home.

:(

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Originally posted by Cardinal


What makes you think Meredith was interested in meeting Michelle and Jason's young professional friends? Maybe she found them boring. Maybe she preferred her own friends.

And maybe Michelle just said, "John and Sally, this is my sister, Meredith." [/*]

Who are John and Sally..??

:biggrin:


Kat

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by Kat4Eagles


Who are John and Sally..??

:biggrin:


Kat [/*]

Oh, you know, John and Sally Y.P. Friends. :D

[Kat4Eagles]

Originally posted by Allison


Too bad you never knew Michelle, because it would have saved you from typing that scenario.

Michelle Young would have never said that about her sister. Never. They loved one another and were best friends.

And now that I think about it, Michelle Young would have never said that about anyone.

I don't understand how you have drawn the conclusion that she would say that, Kat. What have you learned about Michelle Young that makes you think she is that petty and shallow?

She wasn't at all. [/*]

I respect Michelle and the kind of person she was......
She adored Jason and C.
She worked hard and everyone loved her.

Can you say the same for her sister?
Some people in Sayville have very different stories about the sisters to tell.

Michelle would also be upset to hear or read the things about Jason too, but that does not stop people from posting them.

:shrug:

Kat

[Jules2]

Originally posted by Kat4Eagles


So, Card, how did the only sister measure up to all the young professional friends Michelle and Jason had?

How did Michelle introduce her?

Oh, this is my sister.................,she is a waitress.
She has a 4 year degree , but, has not bothered to do anything with it.'
But, maybe someday.
We still have hopes for her after~all.
She was our Nanny for awhile, but that didn't work out either.
Mom brought her a house so she doesn't have to go back in NY.
Why did she leave?, oh, well, you would have to ask her.
There are certain things we don't talk about.
Oh, well, she is still my sister and I love her...

Something like that?

Was she invited to the NC homecoming?

Kat [/*]


Wow! You know that much about Meredith from reading her set to private myspace blog?

FWIW....I have a sister who has a college degree that she chose not to "do anything with" yet, I love her for the person she is, and the accomplishments she has achieved, not the ones she hasn't. I'm proud to call her my sister and my friend, and would never think for one second that I would still have hopes for her. Hopes for what? That she would become something she didn't want to?

Perhaps Michelle was proud of her sister in every way no matter what she chose to do with her life. This is something you will ever know, so assuming otherwise is rather presumptuous of you, don't you think?




On the other hand, I wonder how proud she was and how often she boasted about her husband. You remember him, right? The one who had a *wink wink relationship with one of her best friends? Now that's something to brag about!

[Kat4Eagles]

Originally posted by Cardinal


Oh, you know, John and Sally Y.P. Friends. :D [/*]


Dang, I thought we had some new people to discuss!!:cool:

Kat

[alter ego]

Originally posted by Allison


Exactly.

It makes no sense that LF knew about MM before the murder. If she did, that would mean Michelle had talked to her about the "relationship" because she had a problem with it.

That would mean there was indeed a relationship between MM and JY.

IMO [/*]Of course Michelle knew about it, as did Mr Money - they were all friends.

[Kat4Eagles]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jules2

<snipped>

Perhaps Michelle was proud of her sister in every way no matter what she chose to do with her life. This is something you will ever know, so assuming otherwise is rather presumptuous of you, don't you think?

<QUOTE>



Michelle was proud of Jason too.

:)
Kat

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by Kat4Eagles
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jules2

<snipped>

Perhaps Michelle was proud of her sister in every way no matter what she chose to do with her life. This is something you will ever know, so assuming otherwise is rather presumptuous of you, don't you think?

<QUOTE>



Michelle was proud of Jason too.

:)
Kat [/*]

Has anyone said differently?

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by alter ego
Of course Michelle knew about it, as did Mr Money - they were all friends. [/*]

So out of all of her friends, she chose MM to discuss with her mother in such a way that would make her mother conclude, according to MandyMutton, that "something was going on"?

And, coincidentally, (according to the SW) MM and Jason had been in daily communication for 3 months prior to the murder?

[Jules2]

Originally posted by Kat4Eagles
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jules2

<snipped>

Perhaps Michelle was proud of her sister in every way no matter what she chose to do with her life. This is something you will ever know, so assuming otherwise is rather presumptuous of you, don't you think?

<QUOTE>



Michelle was proud of Jason too.

:)
Kat [/*]


I'm sure she was.
Despite his many flaws...... flaws he possessed just like her sister. I'm sure Michelle was proud of him AND her sister because that was the type of person she was.

[Kat4Eagles]

Originally posted by Cardinal


Has anyone said differently? [/*]

Only when they call him a Murderer.


So, 18 months ago, right now, Michelle was getting ready to watch G A with her g.f, and Jason was getting ready to leave for his meeting, and C was getting ready to go to bed......
None of them knowing in just a few hours , all their worlds would fall apart, and nothing would ever be the same......
The nightmare on Birchleaf Road was about to begin.

:(
Kat

[alter ego]

Originally posted by agathachristie


MM must have told LE they had a romantic relationship.
JY isn't talking.
Did LE just make that up?
I doubt it.
MOO Aggie [/*]MM told LE no such thing or that would have been included in the SW.

Instead, LE simply said that MM confirmed almost daily contact with Jason.

[Kat4Eagles]

Originally posted by Allison

>snipped>

And furthermore, you assume Meredith is not a hard worker just because she was a waitress. Why? I have never heard or seen anything that says Meredith wasn't a good employee. [/*]

Being a waiter/waitress/server is hard work...and one that pays well, but it something you usually do to put yourself through school to get your degree so you can go on to something better.

Why didn't she apply herself more?

Michelle would have never been content not being the best she could be and you know it..

:shrug:


Kat

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by Kat4Eagles


Only when they call him a Murderer.


~snipped because it gave me chills~

:(
Kat [/*]

But no one has said that Michelle didn't love him, or that Michelle wasn't proud of him, Kat. In fact, I think that's one of the things that makes the JDIs so angry. Michelle DID love Jason; she WAS proud of her husband. And they're convinced he killed her, despite that.

JMO

[alter ego]

Originally posted by Cardinal


So out of all of her friends, she chose MM to discuss with her mother in such a way that would make her mother conclude, according to MandyMutton, that "something was going on"?

And, coincidentally, (according to the SW) MM and Jason had been in daily communication for 3 months prior to the murder? [/*]
I don't know what Mandy has said about any such discussion between Michelle and her mom about MM. :shrug:

[alter ego]

Originally posted by Allison


So exactly what did Michelle know about that she would have talked to her mother about? What did Michelle tell LF that LF thought it was important enough to tell LE about Jason's relationship with MM? [/*]What are you talking about :confused:

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by alter ego

I don't know what Mandy has said about any such discussion between Michelle and her mom about MM. :shrug: [/*]


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by MandyMutton


I don't believe LE gave the info to LF, I think it was the other way around. And LE would have immediately given the info to Jason's friends and family in order to divide and conquer. I think they also would have immediately questioned MM about it because she would be considered a suspect. Evidently LE had their own doubts about the validity of the information and decided to puruse it with a s/w. We've heard nothing since that search warrant. I still believe we've heard nothing more because they found nothing.

~snipped~


This is the quote, AE. My question was, how would LF know about MM unless Michelle told her something. Something to make LF suspicious.

[alter ego]

Originally posted by Allison


Michelle and Meredith are different people. Comparing them is not fair in the least. Michelle had a totally different personality than Meredith. Does that mean Meredith is a bad person? I don't think so. She simply has a different outlook on life.

Everyone that I know that knows Meredith loves her, too. So what, she chose to do something after college that did not involve her degree.

Big deal.

You forget, she did get a college degree. Maybe when she did her student teaching, which is done the very last semester before graduation, she decided the classroom is not where she wanted to be. Soooo...instead of doing nothing, she waitressed, which, I will inform you, in NC (in the city she waitressed in) she probably makes more than a teacher and works fewer hours.

Meredith loved and adored her sister and Cassidy. She had a good relationship with Jason, which is why she ran the errand for him that caused her to find her sister's body.

He knew he could count on her to go by the house at his request. Anything she could do to help him out and knowing the what she was doing was going to be a surprise for Michelle and make her happy after the rough summer she had had, Meredith would do. Jason knew it, and he expoited it, imo.

And furthermore, you assume Meredith is not a hard worker just because she was a waitress. Why? I have never heard or seen anything that says Meredith wasn't a good employee. [/*]
Unless Jason told you what he was thinking. you have no idea what his inner thoughts and feelings were.

Or Meredith's.

Or Michelle's.

:rolleyes:

[alter ego]

Originally posted by Cardinal




This is the quote, AE. My question was, how would LF know about MM unless Michelle told her something. Something to make LF suspicious. [/*]I have no idea, I don't think there was any such conversation.

[alter ego]

Originally posted by Allison


I guess I feel like I know the aforementioned people to make that assumption.

No different than Kat continuously speaking for Michelle, saying she adored Jason and was proud of Jason and all the ramblings of what she thinks Michelle might have felt.

Are her comments off limits, too?

Are you going to roll your beady eyes at her fantasy Michelle dialogues? [/*]:rolleyes:

[alter ego]

Originally posted by Cardinal


But no one has said that Michelle didn't love him, or that Michelle wasn't proud of him, Kat. In fact, I think that's one of the things that makes the JDIs so angry. Michelle DID love Jason; she WAS proud of her husband. And they're convinced he killed her, despite that.

JMO [/*]No, they just mock and ridicule the man she loved and call him names.

[alter ego]

Originally posted by Allison


I read your posts as insinuating that LF told LE about JY and MM.

The only way LF would have known anything about a relationship between JY and MM is if Michelle told her mother there was something about it that she did not like. LF knew Michelle and Jason and the Money's were friends, the two Michelle's were friends before they ever went to NCSU, so for Michelle Young to mention the relationship to LF, there would have to be something wrong.

I was wanting to know what exatly you thought Michelle told her mother about MM and JY that LF found important enough to tell LE?

(that is, if you think LF told LE about JY/MM if not, then disregard). [/*]
I'm of the opinion that if Michelle mentioned MM to her mother, it was in the contecxt of all them being friends and weekend plans they were working on.

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


Or maybe LF did have everything to do with the murder? We don't know the dynamics between the sisters or the relationship with their mother. If LF played favorites or played one sister off the other that could very well foster deep resentment, bitterness that boils over into rage.

jmo [/*]

True. But how would we know which sister she favored?

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


Maybe LF is able to become suspicious all by herself? LE checked out MM and apparently it leads to nowhere. Kinda like that accident in the French Broad River didn't lead to attempted murder. :shrug: [/*]

LF conicidentally becoming suspicious of a woman who, it turns out, is in daily contact with Jason for 3 months prior to the murder is reaching, imo.

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by Allison


Right.

It would appear that if LF did favor one, it was Meredith.

She was living in the house that LF bought. She lived with LF free and clear after college, before she moved to NC.

But, we don't know what LF gave Michelle that equaled what she gave Meredith and vice versa. [/*]

I agree. My sister has 2 children, 3 years apart. The older one is very much like Michelle - stable, ambitious, goal-oriented - he's never given her a moment's concern.

Guess which one she favors? The younger one, who "needs her more".

JMO

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


Maybe LF is able to become suspicious all by herself? LE checked out MM and apparently it leads to nowhere. Kinda like that accident in the French Broad River didn't lead to attempted murder. :shrug: [/*]


Why would LE charge JY with attempted murder when they have the ability to charge him with murder instead?

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


examining letters and emails.... [/*]

Is there a link to "letters and emails" ?

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


How is that reaching? Daily contact for three months isn't a crime. [/*]

No, it isn't. But you seemed to have missed my point. My point was that it would be stretching the limits of credulity to think that LF coincidentally became suspicious of the very woman who was in daily contact with Jason for 3 months prior to the murder.

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


Or maybe LF did have everything to do with the murder? We don't know the dynamics between the sisters or the relationship with their mother. If LF played favorites or played one sister off the other that could very well foster deep resentment, bitterness that boils over into rage.

jmo [/*]


If there were any basis to believe this theory then what was the precipitating event? Apparently Meredith, according to your theory, had all the time in the world to kill Michelle. Why did she opt to murder Michelle (again, in your opinion) when she did? TIA

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


Yes and apparently you missed them.

:rolleyes: [/*]

Apparently I did. If you're going to use them to substantiate your argument, you could do us the courtesy of providing the link.

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


And LE checked it out over a year and a half ago. That daily contact must have been explained to LE's satisfaction. Nuthin suspicious. You can't seem to grasp that point. [/*]

I fully grasp that LE found no motive for murder on the part of MM. But that was never my argument. I'm still waiting for you to explain why you think LF would have told LE about MM.

[Breakingnews]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


Yes and apparently you missed them.

:rolleyes: [/*]

Did you find the link for GA friend's search warrant yet?

:rolleyes:

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


both. [/*]

Link please?

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


LE was in Michelle's house for nearly two weeks. They seized all communications devices. I'm not going to waste my time providing links to facts that have been known for over a year. [/*]

I doubt LE has made public any communications on devices found in the home. That would seriously compromise the investigation.

And I highly doubt you have seen them. If, by chance, you have, someone's job is at risk. I think the media would be very interested in that.

JMO

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


I already explained. [/*]

No, you didn't. And you're obviously not going to, or can't.

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


Yes I did but apparently I can't explain it on a level you are capable of understanding. [/*]

Nice try.

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


Doubt all you like.

:biggrin: [/*]

So, you are confirming that you have seen written/electronic communications that were seized from devices at Birchleaf?

I will forward your confirmation to the WCSO.

[Breakingnews]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


Yes I did but apparently I can't explain it on a level you are capable of understanding. [/*]

She has no problem understanding anything, you're dancing again. Just like my request for that link to the SW for GA friend, instead of admitting you were mistaken you chose to ignore it. It's your MO. I can't count the times I've seen you claim to put people on ignore when you're WRONG.

[Barbara2]

Originally posted by zed


I think parents typically love all children equally. They recognize different strengths and weaknesses in different children, and respond to those accordingly. From the outside it may appear unequal, but I it usually balances out. [/*]

There are some that do a lot of projecting. Because they favor one child over another or grew up in a dysfunctional situation where they were not loved as much as a sibling, they assume all families are like that. IMO

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by Allison


But no one but LE knows what evidence LE obtained from the SW's concerning the JY and MM relationship.

The daily contact may have been explained to LE's satisfaction, but what did the evidence obtained explain? Relationship or no relationship?

No one knows what evidence LE has regarding an affair with MM. They very well could have obtained all the info they needed from the computers/phones to verify that Jason was cheating on his wife. They may have a confession from MM herself.

So, really, you cannot say with 100% certainty that there was no affair and that because the public has not been informed of the status of the relationship, there must not have been one. [/*]


Has the affair thing been debunked now?
It was in all of the media articles at the time.
JMO

[Breakingnews]

Originally posted by forpsystudent



Has the affair thing been debunked now?
It was in all of the media articles at the time.
JMO [/*]

No. Several just keep batting it around because LE never used the word "affair". I guess they need LE to link a pic of the two of them in bed together. Relationship and romantic relationship isn't enough for them to accept that at one time MM & JY were doing more than sharing family news.

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by Breakingnews


No. Several just keep batting it around because LE never used the word "affair". I guess they need LE to link a pic of the two of them in bed together. Relationship and romantic relationship isn't enough for them to accept that at one time MM & JY were doing more than sharing family news. [/*]


Oh, now I recall Donnie saying in so many words that it was an affair. Sort of a "wink-wink" thing. He was being facetious but he made his point. JMO

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by MandyMutton



:rolleyes: [/*]

I'm not kidding.

[Kat4Eagles]

Originally posted by Allison


But if there was no relationship, what would Michelle have told her that LF found important enough to tell LE?

And, if LF was lying to LE about Jason having an affair to get LE to focus on him, why would she choose MM who was one of Michelle's closest friends since they were teenagers? Who had a husband and a child and lived in Fla.?

Why would LF not just simply say Michelle told her JY was having an affair with a colleague?

It makes no sense that LF told LE about the relationship. [/*]

Or, what if someone else told LF after she got to Raleigh and before she talked to LE.?
Someone like MF?

It is all going to come out.

:shrug:

Kat

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


and I care because???????

:rolleyes: [/*]

I never presumed that you care. I, however, care deeply if the WCSO's investigation of Michelle Young's murder has been compromised. I'm sure Donnie Harrison will care as well, when he receives my email.

[Breakingnews]

Originally posted by zed


That's interesting. So in fact Jason had a condo from his bachelor days, and Michelle was co-owner of really cute little house. Michelle also had a very successful, promising future. I think Linda must have been a fantastic mother. I have no doubt that Meredith has plans and aspirations equal to Michelle, but as second born she was slower to start (almost middle child syndrome). It all would have balanced out. If she co-owned with Meredith, I bet that paperwork was quickly looked after by Linda regarding transfer of ownership/wills. Meredith inherited Michelle's half. I guess Meredith now co-owns with her mom? [/*]

The condo Michelle owned with her mom was sold before Jason came in the picture. I believe it must have been near NCSU from the description. Linda could have bought instead of paying dorm fees. I really don't know, just a guess as I'm thinking of doing the same thing soon.

Jason bought into his condo with RS less than a year before he married Michelle.

Linda owns the house that Meredith is living in. My understanding from early posts is that LF planned on retiring in NC. So she could have purchased the home for that purpose and to help out Meredith when Cassidy no longer needed a nanny.

IMO

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


and how exactly have I compromised the WCSO investigation?

Do tell. [/*]

If anyone other than LE or the DA has seen the communications you claim to have seen, the investigation has been compromised.

But you don't have to agree. I'm sure Donnie Harrison will.

JMO

[Barbara2]

Originally posted by zed


I guess so. I read about people like that sometimes, but I am confident that Michelle would not have favored one child over another, and I don't think her mother would either. [/*]

It's obvious to those who have paid attention that LF did not favor one child over the other and that all three had a very close relationship.

[Kat4Eagles]

Originally posted by Cardinal


True. But how would we know which sister she favored? [/*]

You know that saying a picture is worth a thousand words?
I am not saying this to be mean, but look at the contrast of sisters. Especially when they were little, like in that Easter pic.
Michelle smiling and happy, and the other sister brooding, moody, and looking pretty miserable.

Is that how it was when they were growing up?
Michelle being popular, going out , doing things, and having lots of friends.
While the sister was home with her Mom who she refers to as the leezard.
Michelle making the cheerleading squad with ease, while the sister makes the cut cause Mom is in charge?

Cheerleading is , like I said before, very competitive.
Cheerleading was a big part of their lives, practices, etc/

You think it was easy, the only sister always being in the background, always taking a backseat to Michelle.

Did you get Michelle's hand me downs, left overs?

And, what is the true story why she relocated to NC?
Some people know, it is not my place to tell it.

So, then what?
Now Michelle and the sister are all grown up.
Michelle gets a great job, good pay, benefits, etc.She meets and falls in love with Jason.
They get married, buy a beautiful home, and start a family.

Guess who is still on the outside looking in?

You guys keep asking us why she is on our radar?
That and the 911 call, there is no way I can take her off.

Kat

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by Kat4Eagles


You know that saying a picture is worth a thousand words?
I am not saying this to be mean, but look at the contrast of sisters. Especially when they were little, like in that Easter pic.
Michelle smiling and happy, and the other sister brooding, moody, and looking pretty miserable.

Is that how it was when they were growing up?
Michelle being popular, going out , doing things, and having lots of friends.
While the sister was home with her Mom who she refers to as the leezard.
Michelle making the cheerleading squad with ease, while the sister makes the cut cause Mom is in charge?

Cheerleading is , like I said before, very competitive.
Cheerleading was a big part of their lives, practices, etc/

You think it was easy, the only sister always being in the background, always taking a backseat to Michelle.

Did you get Michelle's hand me downs, left overs?

And, what is the true story why she relocated to NC?
Some people know, it is not my place to tell it.

So, then what?
Now Michelle and the sister are all grown up.
Michelle gets a great job, good pay, benefits, etc.She meets and falls in love with Jason.
They get married, buy a beautiful home, and start a family.

Guess who is still on the outside looking in?

You guys keep asking us why she is on our radar?
That and the 911 call, there is no way I can take her off.

Kat [/*]

Kat, I've told you before, I have no problem with Meredith being on your radar.

But you are projecting a scenario that may or may not be applicable to the relationship between Michelle and Meredith. It isn't fact; it's conjecture.

JMO

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by Allison


The affair thing has been debunked from the get-go because LE went all PC and called the affair a relationship.

Since then, the running mantra has been since the affair was called a relationship by the WCSO, there was no affair.

Now, the conclusion has been drawn that since the public hasn't been told what evidence LE gathered from the sw regarding MM, there was no affair.

I want to know how that conclusion can be drawn. Isn't it just as easy to say that because we haven't heard anything else regarding the MM relationship, that LE gathered enough evidence to prove JY was having an affair with MM and is satisfied with that? [/*]


Since proof of the "relationship" between JY and MM would be part of any prosecution of JY, I'm not surprised we haven't heard "proof" per se. JMO

[Kat4Eagles]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


Ok.

Michelle was a child of divorce and apparently it was acrimonious, which is a dysfunctional situation for any child to be in growing up. [/*]

Hi Mandy!!
It is also very possible that Michelle felt guilty from all the years she was estranged from her Dad and needed help working on that....

We heard that they reconciled, but they may have missed a lot of time together that Michelle may have regretted, especially with what we know now.

:shrug:

Kat

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


why would my seeing anything compromise the investigation?

You're really not making much sense.

:rolleyes: [/*]

Why? At the very least, because you're referring to what "you've seen" on a public message board.

But it's fine if I'm not making sense to you. I'm quite sure my email to Harrison was very clear.

[Kat4Eagles]

Originally posted by Cardinal


Kat, I've told you before, I have no problem with Meredith being on your radar.

But you are projecting a scenario that may or may not be applicable to the relationship between Michelle and Meredith. It isn't fact; it's conjecture.

JMO [/*]

My scenario is just as real and just as valid as a non~existent murder attempt in a car or in a boat.

We don't know who was behind all that rage that killed Michelle, someone was pretty pissed at her, to say the least.
Kat

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


With that 911 call, Meredith put herself on the radar., imo [/*]

Yes, she did. But not by choice, imo.

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by Kat4Eagles


My scenario is just as real and just as valid as a non~existent murder attempt in a car or in a boat.

We don't know who was behind all that rage that killed Michelle, someone was pretty pissed at her, to say the least.
Kat [/*]

I don't buy the car/boat scenarios, either, Kat. :)

But yeah, someone was pretty pissed.

:mad:

JMO

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


and what exactly have I claimed to see? [/*]

Go back and read page 32 of this thread. That's what I saved for Harrison.

[Breakingnews]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


I've seen the same court records that the media has seen. No mention of a "romantic relationship" in any of them. As I mentioned previously, LE's not going to be tossing out libelous accusations. They want to solve the murder not feed the gossip mill. [/*]

You also claim to have seen a SW for GA friend.

[forpsystudent]

Originally posted by zed


It is in court records. "Court records also alleged that Jason Young was involved in a romantic relationship with another woman and was in almost daily contact with her in the months leading up to Michelle Young’s death."

Mutton only posts the last half of the sentence:
"... was in almost daily contact with her in the months leading up to Michelle Young’s death."

Half the truth isn't a lie, but it's not the complete truth.

http://www.newsobserver.com/102/story/535009.html [/*]


Actually, omission is considered lying,
:no:

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by Breakingnews


You also claim to have seen a SW for GA friend. [/*]

That's true. But I haven't seen one, and I went to the media sites and looked for it.

I'll mention that to Harrison when he responds to my email.

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


I would if a page 32 existed and it doesn't.

:rolleyes: [/*]

Really? I show we're on page 34 right now. Strange.

But the page number doesn't matter. It's not referenced on the screen dump I saved anyway.

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by zed


Mutton also claims to have seen crime scene photographs. [/*]

Really? Okay, the list is getting longer.

[Breakingnews]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


Michelle Money can sue. It's her reputation that you can't seem to let go.

How on earth could a relationship with MM be proved as a motive? She's lived hundreds of miles away, still married to someone else and has another child. [/*]

If MM felt her rep had been unfairly smeared I'm sure we'd seen a lawsuit by now. She's not lawyered up, as far as I know. Unlike JY.

Pattern of behavior. JY liked spreading the love. MM just another link in the chain.

IMO

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by june1943


Not true. She saw pictures taken after it was released as a crime scene. Don't try and rewrite what someone sees it doesn't become you. [/*]

Is that true, June? Because I don't want to include anything that hasn't actually compromised the investigation.

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


okie dokie! Should I expect Donnie's call yet this weekend or will he wait 'til Monday? I have some gardening I'd like to finish up but don't want to miss his call. [/*]

Be flip. That's fine. I doubt Harrison is in the office this weekend. So go pull your weeds.

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


Could you check just to be sure? Do you know the secret knock to the war room?

:lol: [/*]

No, I can't and I don't. I sent an email to Harrison through the WCSO website, explained my concerns, and asked for an email address to send the file.

ETA: I doubt sending the file will be necessary. He only needs to read the board.

[Breakingnews]

Originally posted by Cardinal


No, I can't and I don't. I sent an email to Harrison through the WCSO website, explained my concerns, and asked for an email address to send the file. [/*]

Good for you. She's made plenty of claims about knowing of SWs that haven't been pubished, not just GA friend either.

Most of what she posts is just parrotting the teacher and KY's speculation/hopes/wishes. The teacher finally admitted elsewhere the entire Young family has been in the dark. JY isn't talking nor is his atty or LE telling them anything. Mushrooms, the whole bunch.

IMO

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


silly, Donnie doesn't read the board hisself, he has deputies do that for him. I'm pretty sure they've been here since a certain someone claimed to be a female Raleigh Police Officer.

Wave big, 'k? :biggrin: [/*]

No matter which member of the WCSO follows up on my email, I have no doubt they will be highly entertained by your humor.

Keep 'em laughing, Mutton.

[Cardinal]

Originally posted by Allison


OK... I gotta ask....when do you have time to garden?

You are here 24/7. [/*]

Now THAT'S funny. :lol:

Good night :seeya:

[Kat4Eagles]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


Michelle Money can sue. It's her reputation that you can't seem to let go.

How on earth could a relationship with MM be proved as a motive? She's lived hundreds of miles away, still married to someone else and has another child. [/*]

I don't get it either, the only way MM could be a motive is if she and Jason were planning and plotting to be together, and that does not make any sense.

18 months ago to the minute Jason was calling Michelle....
I wish we could back in time and change it..

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Originally posted by MandyMutton


Could you check just to be sure? Do you know the secret knock to the war room?

:lol: [/*]


lol

Kat

[Barbara2]

Originally posted by Kat4Eagles


I don't get it either, the only way MM could be a motive is if she and Jason were planning and plotting to be together, and that does not make any sense.

18 months ago to the minute Jason was calling Michelle....
I wish we could back in time and change it..

Kat [/*]

Who said MM was a motive? She's a symptom of a bigger disease, IMO. I get the impression that he didn't want to be married to his wife anymore, not that he wanted to be with MM.

[Barbara2]

Originally posted by Kat4Eagles



lol

Kat [/*]

:rolleyes:

[Kat4Eagles]

35 pages is enough, we have to start a new thread.
Anyone want to do it?

Kat

[Jules2]

Originally posted by Kat4Eagles
35 pages is enough, we have to start a new thread.
Anyone want to do it?

Kat [/*]


Done

[Kat4Eagles]

Originally posted by Allison


LE did not know what the nature of the relationship when they learned of it. They had a dead mother in her home so they explored every lead.

I do not think MM was involved in the murder in any way, BTW.

But, If LE has proof of Jason having an affair, that may show a jury that there was indeed trouble in paradise. [/*]

I agree that they had to look at everything they could find in the beginning.

I always thought that was one of the reasons they took the wedding photos, so they could show the happy couple before and after if it turned out Jason killed her.

But, it also reminds me of the posters who tried to portray the picture of Jason and Michelle as having to get married, when there was nothing farther than the truth..

New thread, okay?
I don't want to be the one always starting them, as I get accused of running the Board.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Originally posted by Jules2



Done [/*]

Thank you.

:)

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Please continue on the 05/03 thread.