Attorney General watch

[Serendipitous1]

On November 4, a little more than 6 months from now, Pennsylvanians will have the opportunity to vote for the next state Attorney General...4 more years of the same Tom Corbett (unless, as some suggest, he has his eye on the governorship in 2009), or 4 new years of John Morganelli.

There are issues in the race for Pennsylvania AG. No doubt we shall hear (from ‘Friends of Tom Corbett’) all about TC's successes. http://www.tomcorbett2008.com/index.php . . .No doubt we shall also hear (from 'Citizens for John Morganelli’) all about TC’s failures too. http://www.johnmorganelli.com/

Ray Gricar was a county district attorney, a representative of the Commonwealth. The AG has a moral (if not legal) obligation to publicly remonstrate against the failed local investigation, and to publicly, and at the state level, press for an answer to RG’s disappearance.

But will RG's plight be among the campaign issues? And will we hear from the candidates themselves on this issue? For more than 3 years, TC has used his flacks to publicly dodge the RG quagmire. And early indications are that JM has no intention of making RG’s plight a campaign issue. My response is, that essentially leaves us where we are (where we have been for 3+ years) and it is not nearly good enough...not from the candidates who want to be the chief law enforcement officer in Pennsylvania.

Oftentimes a single issue can sway blocks of voters. It appears to be up to the public and the media to make RG’s plight a campaign issue. I hope that happens. I hope it is discussed and debated. And I hope there will be some ‘meat’ to add to this bare-boned thread in the coming months. Time will tell.

All of the above is JMOO.

[Serendipitous1]

All JMOO (wearing my new ‘political analyst/activist’ cap):

Come November, TC’s number one dilemma will be the national climate of change. What helped him (a Republican) in 2004 (when, out of more than 5.42 million votes cast, he garnered less than a 109-thousand plurality) will work against him this year. Add to that serious allegations of a possible conflict of interest regarding one or more contributors to his ‘war chest’. And add to that his complete and utter (public, official) disregard toward the unexplained disappearance of one of the state’s law enforcement representatives.

I will look closely for what both candidates intend to do, if elected, to reverse three years of state inaction and initiative in investigating the RG disappearance. And if, come November, they both have refused to commit (publicly), I will vote accordingly and move on to press Centre Countians to do the same analysis next year, when MM comes up for re-election.

That’s right. Though I may not be as active here in coming months...and I am just one person...I have this year’s and next year’s political objectives lined up.

[Serendipitous1]

MOO - When given the choice between two equally qualified candidates, the decision often comes down to the 'finer' points...especially when, as in this unprecedented, national 'year of the Democrat', any Republican incumbent's sense of security has already been wiped out. Tom Corbett has steadfastly refused to acknowledge his moral obligation to drive the Ray Gricar investigation. How saith Morganelli? This is as good a tipping point as there is. A moment of reflection is in order: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHpye0M34JQ

[Cloudbuster]

Originally posted by logicworks


Pennsylvania has an long overdue obligation to fulfill. Ray Gricar is 'owed' a full investigation by the State, one that should have been shouldered by the State to begin with instead of being carried off, cast off or driven off by someone or something.

Since the investigating county isn't the county where the evidence was found, it appears whatever was believed to have occured, was to have originated in Centre County, not Union County. Taking it from the hands of the county where there was evidence of possible foul play and returning it to Centre County then leaves the two theory investigation, suicide without a body or walk away.

It's as if the evidence found in Union County doesn't exist. All one has to do is ignore everything......Just ignore ashes in a non-smoker's vehicle; ignore a laptop found in a river in an area that had previously been searched; ignore a hard drive found in an area that had been searched; ignore the fact there were no readable prints of RG's found inside the vehicle; ignore the fact that the 'lead' investigator hid that from family and public......just ignore it all, and sure 'nuff, you've got a walk-away. Homicide has been proven without a body, but suicide cannot be proven without a body. Walk-away without a body is forever nothing but a theory.

The next months are indeed going to prove interesting. Now is the time for pressure on those who can and must make a difference. Justice and common sense demand a full investigation into the disappearance of Ray Gricar.

Centre County cannot and must not be permitted to 'cold case' that which is not now, nor has it ever been, their case by rights. An injustice has been done by the State and it must be corrected. If not, the shame lays forever at the State's door.
JMO [/*]

Here is a interesting yet sad story on a suicide. He was found within a few days.
11.25.97
Top criminal prosecutor takes his own life
Hundreds mourn Michael F. Burns at a hastily arranged Mass in downtown Providence.
By W. ZACHARY MALINOWSKI, MIKE STANTON and TRACY BRETON
Journal Staff Writers

http://www.projo.com/words/burns.htm

[Serendipitous1]

Montour County DA Bob Buehner was the guest today (Tuesday) on WKOK’s moderated program, “On The Mark”...responding to moderators’ and callers’ comments and questions. When a caller asked about Ray Gricar (a question, he quipped, which was inevitable), Buehner’s usual passionate and authoritative tone (I have listened to him speak before) ‘ratcheted’ up a notch or two.

There was no new information...and he admitted that his “great” friendship with RG tended to cloud his view. But just hearing how ‘juiced’ he is when speaking about his friend.....how he would often tease Ray about prosecuting Penn State football players but (jokingly) that Ray could not get him tickets to a game; his unshakable belief that his friend was murdered, and the chilling affect that has on all DAs; his questioning of the BPD’s jurisdiction and ability to manage the kind of investigation that is needed; and his disdain for the AG who he said “walked away from this case”, “a shame and shameful”, instead of showing leadership (reminded that he had previously called TC a “gutless coward”)...has a humanizing affect, an intimacy, not often displayed publicly, and almost never effectively communicated by the written word.

Anyway, I thank Bob Buehner for, once again, speaking up for Ray Gricar. I think this program can be heard...either this week or next at: http://www.wkok.com/1070_WKOK/OTM.htm
There was some discussion about this election year for AG. Buehner stopped short of commenting directly about that. But he did suggest that the one book we would not likely find on TC’s desk was “Profiles in Courage”. I really must find time to go watch Buehner in the courtroom. He, like Ray Gricar, is my kind of guy.

All JMOO

[Cloudbuster]

Thanks S1 for the update! I agree with you LW. It would also be nice if Mcnight would join in too.

[tonyGricar]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
Montour County DA Bob Buehner was the guest today (Tuesday) on WKOK’s moderated program, “On The Mark”...responding to moderators’ and callers’ comments and questions. When a caller asked about Ray Gricar (a question, he quipped, which was inevitable), Buehner’s usual passionate and authoritative tone (I have listened to him speak before) ‘ratcheted’ up a notch or two. [/*]
Thanks for the heads up, S1. I'll definitely give a listen.

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by tonyGricar
Thanks for the heads up, S1. I'll definitely give a listen. Yesterday's program is available now.
http://www.wkok.com/1070_WKOK/OTM.htm
I had to find a high-speed connection...and I had to right-click on the program to open it. The Gricar discussion is in the last quarter, but I found the whole program interesting.

[J. J. in Phila]

"If someone can take out, and cause to vanish, or cause to one of Pennsylvania's 67 district attorneys they can do it to anybody." - - Montour County DA Bob Buehner

My own impression is that the people in Central PA do not believe that "someone" did it (rightly or wrongly).

I'm in complete agreement with Buehner on calling a grand jury.

I think he made a number of excellent points about the judicial system, including plea bargaining and the "CSI effect" that have been made here.

One possible reason for TC not calling a grand jury is that he he didn't want a major unsolved case.

[Serendipitous1]

My own partial transcript of comments made by Montour County District Attorney Bob Buehner, on WKOK’s “On the Mark” program, Tuesday, April 29, 2008. Listen to it if you can...the words alone will not always accurately reflect the tone of the speaker.

Caller (Jim from Shamokin): And what do you think, sir, with Ray Gricar?

Bob Buehner: Well, that was a question that I thought I’d be asked at some point today. And let me tell you Jim, Ray Gricar, the district attorney of Centre County for over 20 years [who] has gone missing from Lewisburg on April 15th and 16th of 2005, was a very close friend of mine.

I tell people the joke I had about Ray Gricar. Being the DA from Centre County, he had to prosecute a lot of football players from Penn State. So I’d always call him up in football season, and I’s say, “Hey Ray. Do you got any extra tickets for the big Penn State - Michigan game?” And he would...he’s a very serious fellow, and it would take him about ten seconds of silence and he’d go, “Would you stop that? You know I can’t get you any tickets!” I’d say, “Now listen Ray. I know you can get me tickets...just a matter of calling the coach up...”. And he actually told me he had actually never had spoken...with all the years of prosecuting people at Penn State (football players, etc.)...that no one from the athletic department ever actually reached out to him on those cases.

So, Ray Gricar and I had a standing joke. And in the summertime, when all the district attorneys get together for a week-long conference where we go over cases and latest court decisions, etc., he and I always went to dinner together. He enjoyed the comradery of his fellow district attorneys. So, that friendship clouds my view of this, because I just simply want to know what happened to my friend.

I think he was murdered. I don’t think that the leaders of law enforcement out in Centre County have done enough. [And] I think the attorney general has walked away from this case. He should be actively involved in this and he refuses. I was on the show with Greta Van Susteren several years ago, and I called for the attorney general to convene a grand jury and a special investigative group of officers, with a prosecutor leading the charge. And that fell on deaf ears.

It’s just a tragedy. They’re still treating this case, Jim, as if it were a missing person. Back in January ‘06, I was asking our attorney general to take over this case. And he, for whatever reason, refuses to do so.

Here’s what we have, Jim. We have a guy who was in Centre County, gone missing, who was seen in Union County last, and whose computer and its hard drive was found in Susquehanna River in Northumberland County. Now, the attorney general’s the only one who has statewide jurisdiction...and refuses to do so.

And he’s been very unpleasant to me when I have called upon him to take the case. Now, why wouldn’t the attorney general...why wouldn’t law enforcement across Pennsylvania be outraged that one of our own is missing. Absolutely, he’s refused. And it’s a shame. And it’s shameful. And I think that what I said one time...if you want me to be a little more provocative...

Moderator: I’ve heard you call him a gutless coward.

Bob Buehner: I did say that. But I also said, Jim, that there’s one book you won’t find on Attorney General Corbett’s bookshelf. And that’s called “Profiles in Courage”.

Moderator: Well yeah. It wouldn’t be politically expedient to do so if he’s running for re-election, which he is this year. He’d have a major unsolved case...

Bob Buehner: But imagine this Jim. If someone can take out, and cause to vanish, one of Pennsylvania’s 67 district attorneys, they could do it to anybody.

Jim: Oh yeah. Then you’d have to be afraid.

Bob Buehner: Absolutely. And to do so without a trace. I mean, there’s only 3 theories of what happened to Ray Gricar. Number one, he committed suicide. Number 2, he took a walkabout, he just took off and he’s sipping Mai Tais on some South Pacific island. Or 3, that he was murdered.

Jim: Just like that attorney general that got killed down in Lancaster.

Moderator: You mean U.S. attorney.

Bob Buehner: That was a U.S. attorney. At least they found a body there. We have no body of Ray Gricar that’s turned up, despite exhaustive efforts by (for example) the State Police up at Milton, who have gone up and down the Susquehanna River numerous times...with cadaver dogs, with boats, with helicopters. Nothing was ever found.

I dismiss the fact that he jumped into the river. Jim, as you know, the Susquehanna River over in Lewisburg...the last thing you want to do if you want to commit suicide is jump in the river in Lewisburg, off the river bridge. Because the only thing you are going to do is break your ankles. It’s not deep enough, frankly.

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster
Thanks S1 for the update! I agree with you LW. It would also be nice if Mcnight would join in too. Unbeknownst to me, Ted McKnight appears to have gotten bounced in last year's primary in Clinton County. And I cannot now find much of anything in the way of an explanation, online. But he has had his own problems to deal with. I suppose he has returned to full-time private practice. I wish him well. But yes, it would be nice if he were as outspoken as Bob Buehner.

DA transition off to a rough start
http://www.lockhaven.com/page/content.detail/id/500543.html

A Lycoming County judge awarded former Clinton County DA Ted McKnight damages for emotional distress caused by repeated threats from a man...
http://www.lockhaven.com/page/content.detail/id/501519.html

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila
"If someone can take out, and cause to vanish, or cause to one of Pennsylvania's 67 district attorneys they can do it to anybody." - - Montour County DA Bob Buehner

My own impression is that the people in Central PA do not believe that "someone" did it (rightly or wrongly).

I'm in complete agreement with Buehner on calling a grand jury.

I think he made a number of excellent points about the judicial system, including plea bargaining and the "CSI effect" that have been made here.

One possible reason for TC not calling a grand jury is that he he didn't want a major unsolved case. And did you also catch the refinements being made to polygraph testing? As to the reason for TC's recalcitrance...I will go with the "gutless coward" quote. What saith Morganelli? MOO

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
And did you also catch the refinements being made to polygraph testing? As to the reason for TC's recalcitrance...I will go with the "gutless coward" quote. What saith Morganelli? MOO [/*]

Yes, an a means of exoneration, without further evidence to the contrary (though, ironically, I take a slightly (and only slightly) dimmer view of a polygraph).

It does raise the question of what the "big secret" is. The "big secret" might be that TC doesn't want to take responsibility for an unsolvable case (though I'd be happy it if some things could be ruled out).

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1

Bob Buehner: That was a U.S. attorney. At least they found a body there. We have no body of Ray Gricar that’s turned up, despite exhaustive efforts by (for example) the State Police up at Milton, who have gone up and down the Susquehanna River numerous times...with cadaver dogs, with boats, with helicopters. Nothing was ever found.

I dismiss the fact that he jumped into the river. Jim, as you know, the Susquehanna River over in Lewisburg...the last thing you want to do if you want to commit suicide is jump in the river in Lewisburg, off the river bridge. Because the only thing you are going to do is break your ankles. It’s not deep enough, frankly. [/*]

In fairness to everyone involved, the Susquehanna was much higher at the time. Still, looking at the history of the river, bodies usually do turn up.

[Cloudbuster]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
Unbeknownst to me, Ted McKnight appears to have gotten bounced in last year's primary in Clinton County. And I cannot now find much of anything in the way of an explanation, online. But he has had his own problems to deal with. I suppose he has returned to full-time private practice. I wish him well. But yes, it would be nice if he were as outspoken as Bob Buehner.

DA transition off to a rough start
http://www.lockhaven.com/page/content.detail/id/500543.html

A Lycoming County judge awarded former Clinton County DA Ted McKnight damages for emotional distress caused by repeated threats from a man...
http://www.lockhaven.com/page/content.detail/id/501519.html [/*]

WOW S1 the stories leave me with more questions than answers now lol, its all weird stuff. I would like to know why he was bounced from the primary too. I had no idea about any of this. :confused:

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks


A couple of thoughts on the above quoted statement.
Question........does TC want elected into the AG position in November, or does he instead want to run for Governor in 2009? Losing the AG position would free him up to run for Governor, correct?


No. First, the Governorship isn't up until 2010. Second, losing it hurts fund raising and free media. Every time an AG makes a drug bust, he gets free TV, especially in "T" counties.

Others have run as state row officers for the governorship. Both Caseys (though one after), Bailey, Preate, Baker-Knoll, Fisher, and Dwyer was planning on a run for Lt. Governor, had the incitement come down. Lt. Governors are also in the mix with Scranton and Single


Letting the case 'ride' until a new AG comes in and takes over won't smear TC's record and any AG with one ounce of fortitude and moral fiber, is going to do what should have been done three years ago, take on the State's case.

The Ray Gricar case IS now and always has been the elephant that TC did not want laying in the middle of the State's office, so he shuffled it off to Bellefonte, where it simply lays. No one bothers it or disturbs it in anyway locally. They wouldn't know what to do with it if it did need attention.


No, there will be no pressure on that one either, unless public pressure builds.



The elephant being housed in Bellefonte belongs to the State. Don't let anyone fool you that it doesn't.
JMO [/*]

While it might belong to the state, only someone making it an issue will help.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks


I was referring to 2009 as year necessary for campaigning, not as election year. I would think a full year's work ahead of time would be a necessity for running for the key top position in PA.

What a conundrum, free TV or top position in the State as choices!


No, the conundrum is free television versus paid television ads. And a successful run for governor will have basically started at this point. It will be someone positioning himself years in advance.

A loss, or even a poor showing, could greatly undermine that.


TC's refusal to investigate his own case is a State shame, morally and politically wrong, that will not be forgotten when it comes time to vote.


Not by you, but by nearly everyone else. RFG is not a statewide issue; unless it ultimately becomes part of a statewide scandal, it never will be. I'm not happy about it, but that this the reality of the politics. It should be in Centre and Union Counties, and isn't.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks


Really? By nearly everyone else? I think you must be confused, since it's not what your neighbors obviously think, and one would think that to state such facts, it would, of course, be based on YOUR neighborhood action at the polls.


Philadelphia County
Democratic Primary

Candidate Votes Percent
MORGANELLI, JOHN M. (DEM)
270,086 100.0%
Republican Primary

Candidate Votes Percent
CORBETT, TOM (REP)
16,572 100.0%


http://www.electionreturns.state.pa.us/ElectionsInformation.aspx?FunctionID=15&ElectionID=27&OfficeID=5 [/*]

From the same source:

D
Obama 282,140

Clinton 150,534

D total: 432,674

R
Paul 3034

McCain 17, 113

Huckabee 1374

R total: 21,521

http://www.electionreturns.state.pa.us/ElectionsInformation.aspx?FunctionID=15&ElectionID=27&OfficeID=1

For both candidates, a number of voters didn't even bother to vote for a nominee for attorney general:

At least 4,949 Republicans didn't vote for Corbett.

At least 162,588 Democrats didn't bother to vote for Morganelli.

Not a hot race, not a groundswell. And that is in Philadelphia alone.

[Serendipitous1]

I would agree there is nothing significant about the AG primary results...where both candidates ran unnopposed, and the attention was on Clinton vs. Obama. But I believe national politics will inure to the benefit of Democrats in state races come November. The rest is up to Morganelli.

"War of Words Already Brewing Between A.G. Candidates" (WFMZ-TV, posted 02-06-2008):
http://wfmz.com/view/?id=211325

Pre-primary election, and taken out of context (perhaps), but a nonetheless interesting quote from Corbett: "We're not afraid to do investigations." This could become TC's 'mantra', if JM keeps him on the defensive...to include Ray Gricar's case. MOO

[day2day]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
I would agree there is nothing significant about the AG primary results...where both candidates ran unnopposed, and the attention was on Clinton vs. Obama. But I believe national politics will inure to the benefit of Democrats in state races come November. The rest is up to Morganelli.

"War of Words Already Brewing Between A.G. Candidates" (WFMZ-TV, posted 02-06-2008):
http://wfmz.com/view/?id=211325

Pre-primary election, and taken out of context (perhaps), but a nonetheless interesting quote from Corbett: "We're not afraid to do investigations." This could become TC's 'mantra', if JM keeps him on the defensive...to include Ray Gricar's case. MOO [/*]

Sighs...they aren't afraid to do them-they just DON'T bother....
:punch:

jmo

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
I would agree there is nothing significant about the AG primary results...where both candidates ran unnopposed, and the attention was on Clinton vs. Obama. But I believe national politics will inure to the benefit of Democrats in state races come November. The rest is up to Morganelli.

"War of Words Already Brewing Between A.G. Candidates" (WFMZ-TV, posted 02-06-2008):
http://wfmz.com/view/?id=211325

Pre-primary election, and taken out of context (perhaps), but a nonetheless interesting quote from Corbett: "We're not afraid to do investigations." This could become TC's 'mantra', if JM keeps him on the defensive...to include Ray Gricar's case. MOO [/*]

I seriously doubt that this will be a state wide issue, but it could get some publicity in central PA.

[Cloudbuster]

LW well said!!!! It is a state issue. Heck we got one federal prosecutor that was killed and left by the way side and another missing. Two unsoved cases. Maybe they should check out who the Kingpin in Baltimore that almost died that has a interesting nickname. Drug related , just can't shake it. Mo

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks


It IS a State issue. It is the State's unsolved case. 'State wide' is exactly where it needs to be heard, loud and clear.


And statewide is where it will fall on deaf ears, as a political issue.

I'm sure that in the last week there was a murder in Pittsburgh, or the surrounding area. It doesn't make the news in Phila or probably central PA, because it doesn't affect the lives, or does so very tangentially, at best.

This case is basically the same. Now, you state what people ]should feel about the case as a political issue, but that won't change about what people do feel.


Buehner has taken the lead.

Buehner is largely correct, IMO, but he took the lead more than a year ago, and you can see how it's moved the public.

I'm not overjoyed that there hasn't been a greater outcry, but there has not been an outcry in Centre and Union Counties; why do you think that people out of the area will vote on the issue?

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks


This case is not a Pittsburgh or Philadelphia murder, the news of which did not reach other areas of the state. This case went nationwide in the news. It is not an issue local only to central PA, as you constantly imply. It is a State issue, a State problem requiring a State investigation and an expert lead. MM does NOT qualify as being such an expert.


Please note I said statewide issue. The issue might have been known statewide, and the subject of curiosity, but it doesn't affect the voters day-to-day life, in a blatantly obviously manner (it does, but not obviously).

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks


Any time the State government shrugs off it's responsibility, it is a statewide issue.


No it isn't. It, on the surface, does not affect the daily lives of people out of the area. That a murderer might be running around Union and Centre Counties, doesn't move too many voters in Pittsburgh, Erie, Allentown, or Philadelphia.

Any time a local government willingly accepts full responsibility for a State government issue, it is a statewide issue.

That is the political reality in this political campaign, which is what we are discussing.

[Serendipitous1]

All JMOO:

Many voters have probably paid little attention to "bonusgate", or Louis DeNaples, or Ray Gricar. But when the Republican AG's office appears to go after Democrats only, while there are former Republican legislative leaders who presided over the awarding of huge bonuses and who gave thousands of dollars to TC’s campaign committee...that is a concern.

When OAG investigators subpoena the campaign finance records of several Democratic state lawmakers who split $45,000 in campaign donations from DeNaples, while TC's committee holds on to $35,000 (or more) from the same source...that is a concern. And while TC had primary authority to investigate DeNaples for perjury, he chose to allow a county DA to pursue the case. That is a concern also, in light of campaign contributors.

And when the state's chief law enforcement officer, who just two weeks earlier stood shoulder-to-shoulder with Ray Gricar at a drug-bust press conference, turned his back on the DA when he disappeared without a trace...did not show leadership, or anything more than a passive interest...that is a concern too.

The political reality is, while these matters (questionable bonuses, generous gaming licensee, missing DA) are diverse and perhaps only of regional interest, the central issue is (or should be) TC's judgement...his fitness to be the state's chief law enforcement officer. And that central issue should be of statewide interest to voters.

JM has done a fair job thus far in questioning TC's judgement. But he has yet to publicly address the Gricar matter. If he wants to draw TC out on the central issue he should consider every means available to do so.

See 'Press Releases' at http://www.johnmorganelli.com/
http://wfmz.com/view/?id=211325
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/valleyindependent/news/s_563312.html

[Serendipitous1]

Bob Buehner recently mentioned that he had been on a program hosted by GVS, when he called for the AG to convene a grand jury, etc. I had no recollection of it...could not find anything posted here about it, or at FoxNews.com. I did find a lead-in at AccessMyLibrary.com. I was wondering if anyone had a better link or a complete transcript. Here is what I was able to find by some intense 'googling' (note - this is an incomplete transcript, and some Qs & As are probably out of sequence):

Search Stalls For Missing Pennsylvania Prosecutor. (Fox News Channel, Greta Van Susteren, 1/5/06)

VAN SUSTEREN: What happened to Pennsylvania DA Ray Gricar? It has been almost nine months since he disappeared. And police have reached, apparently, a dead end. Gricar's car was found one day after [he] disappeared. And, in the following months, police got many reports of sightings, but none of them has panned out. Now two other prosecutors in Pennsylvania are hoping that the state attorney general's office will take over the case and solve it. District attorneys Ted McKnight and Bob Buehner join us live from State College Pennsylvania. Ted, you want the state attorney general to take over the case? Why hasn't that been done already?

TED MCKNIGHT, CLINTON COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: There has not been a request made so far, Greta. And we are trying to encourage the people to do that. We are also trying to encourage the attorney general to take a look at it independently to see if it ought to be done. Quite frankly, there are possibilities that there are multiple jurisdictions involved here. Exactly where the foul play took place involving Ray, it could be several different places. So, this is a case that clearly is one in which someone who has statewide jurisdiction ought to be involved. And I think it ought to be the Pennsylvania State Police as the investigative agency, and the attorney general in charge of the investigation.

With -- with -- with Pennsylvania law, the state police can go all over the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, investigating this matter.

VAN SUSTEREN: You know, Ted, I -- I don't know Ray Gricar. I was up there looking around. It didn't [seem] like a place -- the -- the water at the time was so shallow, it didn't seem like a place you would commit suicide, near to where the car was found.

MCKNIGHT:

VAN SUSTEREN: But you have known Ray for 20 years. Any -- what do you think?

MCKNIGHT: I have felt from day one it was -- he was the obtain [object?] of foul play. I thought that the aspect and this talk about suicide was totally off center on this thing and should not have been considered. I'm absolutely convinced today that, as time has passed, that -- that he clearly was the obtain [object?] of foul play. And because of the time that has passed, I'm afraid that Ray is dead at this point [in] time.

MCKNIGHT: But I think the attorney general is the solution to this thing. And, quite frankly, I think we need to have somebody dedicated to this, and a -- a special report [prosecutor?] ought to be appointed to do the job. And, frankly, we are not sure where the foul play occurred, which county of the 67. So, the one person that can do that is the attorney general. And it is about time, I think, that he comes forward and joins with all of us to solve this very serious matter.

VAN SUSTEREN: Bob, if -- you know, it doesn't -- I cannot understand why that has not been done. I mean, you would think -- you would think that everyone would sort of get off the dime and do that. You sort of circle the wagons. It is one of your own. And the top prosecutor, you would think, would seize upon the opportunity. Why hasn't that been done, Bob?

BOB BUEHNER, MONTOUR COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA, DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Well, it is surprising to me that it hasn't so far, Greta. But the local police in Bellefonte have really been taking the lead in this investigation. They have worked diligently. They have worked hard. I think they have run into a lot of dead ends now. It's now time for an attorney, who has the ability to convene a statewide grand jury, who has the ability to have statewide jurisdiction, and also involve the state police.

VAN SUSTEREN: Bob, we only have 30 seconds left. So, what -- what is the producer? Just to tell the attorney general, take this?

BUEHNER: Well, I think district attorneys can ask the attorney general to do it. And we are going to be meeting in February, all of the 67 district attorneys. That is going to be topic one discussion for us...

VAN SUSTEREN: And...

BUEHNER: ... to ask the attorney general to go forward.

VAN SUSTEREN: And I hope, at the same time, throw into the mix the federal prosecutor from Maryland who was found, Jonathan Luna, who was found dead in your state.

VAN SUSTEREN: Ted, Bob, thank you. And good luck to both of you.

MCKNIGHT: Thank you.

VAN SUSTEREN: Coming up...

BUEHNER: Thank you, Greta.

VAN SUSTEREN: Coming up...

[Serendipitous1]

Morganelli to Corbett: Reduce gunfire in Pa.
"One of the most serious public safety issues facing all of our communities, death by gunfire, has been all but ignored by the current attorney general."
http://blog.pennlive.com/lvbreakingnews/2008/05/morganelli_to_corbett_reduce_g.html

MOO - Serendipitous1 to Corbett: Form a special task force to find out what happened to Ray Gricar. One of the most serious failures of your administration was turning your back on a fellow prosecutor...a representative of the Commonwealth...who mysteriously disappeared.

[Serendipitous1]

In an interview on May 12, 2005, TC said he had not encountered any similar case – a prosecutor missing and no evidence left behind – in his more than 25 years of experience. “I certainly hope we find him alive”, he said, while adding that hope for a happy ending was fading because so much time had gone by without a trace of him. TC said the first thing he asked about was where his keys were. Since they had not turned up, he concluded that Gricar planned to return to his car.
http://www.centredaily.com/news/ray_gricar/story/3777.html

MOO - This is the only instance I recall where the AG personally addressed the matter publicly, and only then because he was in CC on other business and was 'cornered' by a reporter. It sounded to me like TC was thinking foul play from the beginning. But, just one month after the disappearance, everyone involved was saying there were no clues, IIRC.

I believe McKnight, Buehner and other DAs likely discussed getting the case into the AG’s hands, when the group of DAs met privately with local LE on May 20, 2005. I believe TC convinced them, particularly MS, that it was not necessary. I believe he walked away from the case...that of a prosecutor who had vanished, seemingly without a trace...perhaps looking forward -- that (as a WKOK personality recently said) it would not be politically expedient to have a major unsolved case come time for re-election.

Then on July 30, evidence was discovered...the laptop, sans hard drive...but which was of no help. On September 6 (in the Philly Inquirer) DZ is quoted as saying, "To me, it looks more and more like a homicide by someone who planned this out...". Two days later, Buehner publicly called for a statewide task force, to include the OAG and the PSP (and said one should have been formed months before), on WKOK’s “Leaders and Lawmakers” program. But other media apparently failed to pick up on that.

Then in late Sep/early Oct, more evidence was found...a hard drive...but which apparently failed to yield any clues. In a January 1, 2006 article, both McKnight and Buehner spoke out publicly, apparently hoping for (but not counting on) MM's support (MM, a former senior deputy attorney general, pledged to use his connections in the OAG, if it would help). They said they were also considering making a direct request to the AG. McKnight also believed that any DA with a connection to the case could request the AG to step in, and he pledged to raise that idea at the midwinter PDAA meeting.
http://www.centredaily.com/news/ray_gricar/story/3799.html

MOO - Four days later, McKnight and Buehner reiterated their position on GVS's program. Again no other media took notice. Then on January 11, MM and SW gave their joint 'no stone left unturned' speech, following a 90-minute meeting with investigators. MM stated he would not formally seek assistance from the OAG.

The PDAA met in Philadelphia on February 8 & 9. Obviously McKnight's and Buehner's initiatives were thwarted. I can imagine that politics and 'Corbett worshipers' abound at all levels of government in the state (can you hear me now, former senior deputy attorney general MM?). Good luck finding out what really went on at that meeting (and at every PDAA meeting since).

At the one-year anniversary (in a Patriot-News/AP article)...while MM was looking for "that lucky thing, that fortuitous event" to jump-start the investigation, all the while fiercely holding on to the investigation...McKnight again called for a state agency to take over. And again, one month later, when the proverbial 's__t hit the fan' (missed leads, ignored sightings, etc.) and Buehner went ballistic on the AG. That is when MM appeared to compromise a bit, calling for what turned out to be a long-delayed and apparently useless review by the PSP elite.

Since From May 12, 2005, TC has been publicly silent on the matter, even while his office gave private assurances that Ray Gricar’s disappearance was a matter of great importance to the entire Commonwealth. Instead of stepping up, to publicly show leadership and a personal commitment, he sent his underling(s) out to try to hush his critics.

By his public inaction, TC has failed the state’s citizens...especially past and present prosecutors and their families, friends and colleagues. That is certainly not a trait I look for in the state's chief law enforcement officer. TC needs to answer this and other questions about his judgement...in person (not through his spokesperson). If JM will not hold TC’s feet to the fire, others should (e.g. through letters to editors, editorials, articles, debate questions, etc.).

[Serendipitous1]

Just as he has done for 3 years running in the Gricar matter, Corbett sent his flack out to scoff at criticisms, rather than speak to the issues personally (MOO).
http://www.mcall.com/news/nationworld/state/all-a3_5morgo.6395168may07,0,862430.story

MOO - It's going to be a l-o-n-g six months for Corbett. Then again, dodging the issues is probably the only exercise he gets.

------------------

2008 Campaign Voters Guide - General Primary Election - The League of Women Voters of Pennsylvania - Question: What specific priorities do you have if elected to the office of Attorney General?

Corbett: Throughout my career, I have fought to protect all Pennsylvanians and as Attorney General I will continue to aggressively pursue those who prey on the most vulnerable of our communities – our children and our seniors. I am committed to providing safety and security for PA’s families in our homes, neighborhoods, schools and businesses. As Attorney General I will: Protect our children from child sexual predators and child pornography, ensure that our schools are safe havens where our children can learn without the threat of violence.

Morganelli: 1. Pass a gang statute that makes gang membership a crime so as to attack the gangs before they commit their next murder or drug deal. 2. Address the proliferation of handguns into the hands of criminals, young children and those with mental illness. 3. Abolish parole for violent criminals. 4. Crackdown on illegal criminal aliens who have no respect for our laws, commit crime and use fraudulent identities.

http://www.palwv.org/voting/vg2008_Primary.pdf

MOO - in other words, four (or 2 if he runs for Governor) more years of the old Corbett, doing what the position demands, but without rocking any political boats...or four new years of Morganelli, doing what the position demands, plus lobbying aggressively for new tools to combat serious crimes/criminals (and maybe even some ideas on how to get a state-wide task force investigating the disappearance of Ray Gricar).

[Serendipitous1]

$55,000 to State Attorney General Tom Corbett from 2003 to 2005 - a stunning contribution from a convicted felon to the chief law enforcement officer of Pennsylvania.

"The facts of Attorney General Corbett’s performance may convince voters that, contrary to past performance, it is the Democratic nominee, John Morganelli, who is a better candidate and these facts, in [the] mid part of state, which Corbett needs to win, may convince R voters to vote D for AG."
http://crnblog.org/?p=209

MOO - Now *there* is a novel thought - a Democrat who might be considered more conservative than a Republican.

[Serendipitous1]

Frankly, I am way more than tired of hearing TC's flack, Kevin Harley-har-de-har-har, stutter and sputter about what amounts to his boss' holier-than-thou position. Either TC addresses the issues himself...in person and on point (including his near total failure to publicly address the mysterious disappearance of one of Pennsylvania's top prosecutors)...or he may just as well call an illegal in to dust off his private practice. MOO

[puzzled]

I just have a few things to say. S1 I love you! Please do not stop! I respect you with every fiber of my being! You are the man!

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by puzzled
I just have a few things to say. S1 I love you! Please do not stop! I respect you with every fiber of my being! You are the man! Thanks, puzzled...however misguided your affections may be [S1 blushes].

I do not recall seeing Kevin Harley's name on the primary ballot for AG. And I am wondering who pays him to be TC's campaign surrogate. MOO, of course.

[J. J. in Phila]

S1, I have no doubt that TC has dropped the ball, big time, on the Gricar case. However, there are two questions:

1. What makes you think Morganelli won't do the same thing?

2. Even if Morganelli were to "champion" a grand jury for the RFG case, very crudely put, how many votes will it move?

Personally, I'd vote for him (and I probably will anyhow) if he'd stand up and say, "If I'm elected, I'll impanel a grand jury to investigate the disappearance of Ray Gricar," but how many others would(that are actually registered voters in PA)?

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by logicworks
Great summary of what TC has NOT done.

For three years, he has turned his back on the case, which meant turning his back to RG and loved ones, turning his back to every law enforcement representative in the state, while turning his back to the state citizens.

Has he done so deliberately? Every indication indeed indicates the lack of movement has not only been deliberate, but it has been calculated from the 'git-go'. For that lack of honor, intergrity, courage, he needs to be elected OUT of office. Who wants or needs a top law enforcement official in the state like that?

Was he serious when he said he thought RG must have been planning to return because he took his keys with him???? Egad! We ARE in big trouble with that level of investigating prowess.

I think the truly remarkable people are the ones who, like RG, are completely satisfied with a job well done. The others are just satisfied with a job, forget the 'well done'. All just my own opinion.

You previously asked if it was possible that the OAG was working, behind the scenes, to solve this mystery. I think that is not the case, else private assurances to key people would not have resulted in their public remonstrances...from September '05 and continuing to this day.

I took TC's 'keys' and other comments (in May '05) as subtle hints that he suspected foul play because, regarding the other theories, RG taking his keys with him would not seem to be consistent with leaving his car behind, neatly parked.

Someone saying they will not be satisfied until an answer is found is not remotely the same as saying we will pull out all of the stops to solve this mystery, especially to determine if Ray Gricar's disappearance was a direct result of his chosen career.

I was impressed by the quick (and successful) response to the recent assassination of a Philadelphia police officer. There must be something, some secret perhaps, to explain why a county DA's sudden and unexplained disappearance does not get the same attention. Regardless, may God bless everyone in law enforcement...today and always.

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila
S1, I have no doubt that TC has dropped the ball, big time, on the Gricar case. However, there are two questions:

1. What makes you think Morganelli won't do the same thing?

2. Even if Morganelli were to "champion" a grand jury for the RFG case, very crudely put, how many votes will it move?

Personally, I'd vote for him (and I probably will anyhow) if he'd stand up and say, "If I'm elected, I'll impanel a grand jury to investigate the disappearance of Ray Gricar," but how many others would(that are actually registered voters in PA)? MOO - I believe you mentioned the Pennsylvania 'T', meaning the state, minus the Pittsburgh and Philadelphia regions. It is an awesome block of voters...which neither candidate can safely choose to ignore. And this year, it includes the home ground of the Gricar and DeNaples issues.

I am aware of certain private assurances. But, until JM publicly states his position, I have no reason to believe anything will change in regard to the AG's moral obligation to pursue an answer to RG's disappearance. JM has already picked several 'fronts' in his battle with TC. Maybe RG's case will become another...maybe not. But the common thread is TC's judgement...and whether or not he is fit to remain the state's top LE official. That is what can sway votes, statewide.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1

The PDAA met in Philadelphia on February 8 & 9. Obviously McKnight's and Buehner's initiatives were thwarted. I can imagine that politics and 'Corbett worshipers' abound at all levels of government in the state (can you hear me now, former senior deputy attorney general MM?). Good luck finding out what really went on at that meeting (and at every PDAA meeting since).

[/*]

Here is a link to the PDAA and there is to be a meeting in July again. Wonder if there is any way to get the attention of other DA's by JM at that meeting. Put the issue on the table then about RG. Maybe a couple letters or emails to JM and other DA's in Central PA?

http://www.pdaa.org/history.html

Maybe the people who were talking about a rally for RG would be better off finding out where this meeting is held in July and having a rally there. :D

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by logicworks <Snip>
I always thought it was a ventriloquist's act, S1.....lol.
Actually I was hoping I wasn't the only one perturbed when reading har-de-har-har's pontificating. LOL. Visions of the slow-witted Mortimer Snerd...
http://www.ventriloquistcentral.com/tribute/makers/curtis.jpg

...Edgar Bergen should be so 'proud'! MOO

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by sherrijean981
Here is a link to the PDAA and there is to be a meeting in July again. Wonder if there is any way to get the attention of other DA's by JM at that meeting. Put the issue on the table then about RG. Maybe a couple letters or emails to JM and other DA's in Central PA?
http://www.pdaa.org/history.html

Maybe the people who were talking about a rally for RG would be better off finding out where this meeting is held in July and having a rally there. MOO - The PDAA is a joke when it comes to standing up for one of its own...not unlike a herd of buffalo paying little notice when one of them falls to the 'hunter'. Too bad for Ray Gricar. OTOH, here is a little known factoid: The PDAA took measures in 2006 to limit Internet access to the details of its meetings...a security issue no doubt prompted by the uncertainty regarding RG's disappearance.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
MOO - The PDAA is a joke when it comes to standing up for one of its own...not unlike a herd of buffalo paying little notice when one of them falls to the 'hunter'. Too bad for Ray Gricar. OTOH, here is a little known factoid: The PDAA took measures in 2006 to limit Internet access to the details of its meetings...a security issue no doubt prompted by the uncertainty regarding RG's disappearance. [/*]

I don't know how long my computer will hold out before the hard drive is replaced but I will try for a while.

I was on the PDAA site and all the DA's of the state of PA are listed with email addresses and the physical address of their office. Why don't we make up a letter to send them, either by email or snail mail, and let them know how we feel, how their lack of having RG upfront and personal in the news, in their meetings and their lack of doing anything, makes the communties of PA wonder if they don't stand up for one of their own, what are they going to do for the citizens of PA? That is how I feel.

www.pdaa.org/history

On the above site they have this statement:

Quote:
"The Association periodically mails to all District Attorneys' offices notice of recently enacted or moving legislation of importance to District Attorneys. ((((((Through the Association's statewide telephone and e-mail network, District Attorneys are also contacted by members of the Executive Committee to actively participate in legislative efforts which will impact on the prosecution of criminal cases, victim rights and public safety. ))))))Periodic trips have been made to Harrisburg to meet with Pennsylvania senators and representatives to address State legislative issues, and also to Washington, D.C. to address relevant federal issues."
Quote

Where were RG's victim's rights? Why were his rights and public safety not made an issue by members of the Executive Committee? Why did not the AG, DA, the Assistant DA's or other PA county DA's make a case for RG? Why did TG, LG, the other nephew's, PF, BG, SS, EW, or any of a number of Centre County Attorney's, or one of his friends, not file any type of grievance on the actions of the Centre County DA and the AG for their lack of response to RG's case?

There has to be a way for someone to make a case here, someone to file a petition against the lack of response and action from the AG and DA. Someone has to be able to make ripples against all this BS. Someone has to be able to stand up for RG's rights!

What can we do and who can be get in touch with to do so? What legal rights can be brought into action for RG?

Maybe we can write letters to the people on these links:

http://www.pdaa.org/links.html
http://www.pdaa.org/officers.html

[J. J. in Phila]

Welcome back SJ.

I think writing JM might be helpful.

[Serendipitous1]

Corbett rival contends state fumbled suit

Morganelli: "Corbett basically eviscerated Pennsylvania law by his agreement. We are now stuck with this as a legal precedent. . . . The AG messed up. . . . He should never have stipulated as to what the law is."

Harley [TC's campaign surrogate - MOO]: "We don't agree with the judge. We're reviewing the decision to decide whether we're going to appeal or not." Morganelli "does not understand either state or federal law."

http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/18853434.html

[sherrijean981]

What is Harley saying? That Morganelli knows nothing about any law and shouldn't be running or be a DA? What kind of statements is he making and what is he meaning?

I am about sick of hearing Harley's voice speaking for the AG. Does TC only speak in front of a camera during drug busts?

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by sherrijean981
What is Harley saying? That Morganelli knows nothing about any law and shouldn't be running or be a DA? What kind of statements is he making and what is he meaning?

I am about sick of hearing Harley's voice speaking for the AG. Does TC only speak in front of a camera during drug busts? [/*]

TC is sending out an attack dog. That is common in larger political campaigns.

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila
TC is sending out an attack dog. That is common in larger political campaigns. This is what I heard last night in D.C., from an appointed AG (an ultra 'good guy', IMO):
http://www.usdoj.gov/ag/speeches/2008/ag_speech_080513.html

I expected something similar from our elected state AG in regard to Ray Gricar...but have yet to hear it. Corbett is a 'gutless coward'. And hiding behind his campaign surrogate (who gets $100K+ taxpayer dollars annually to deflect criticisms) is proof enough. That is a given.

You say it is politics, as usual. I say it is immoral. So what saith Morganelli? MOO

[Serendipitous1]

Six state lawmakers called Tuesday for the state attorney general to investigate whether state gaming regulators broke the law when they, according to sources, ordered their investigators to change a background report on Mount Airy Casino Resort owner Louis DeNaples.
http://www.mcall.com/all-probe051408,0,4771927.story

Question: Why, in God's green earth, would anyone call upon the AG to investigate anything in regard to DeNaples...when he holds on to $55,000 in campaign contributions from DeNaples' D&L Realty...and it fell upon a county DA to break the DeNaples case wide open?

Question: Why, in God's green earth, would anyone think that the solution to Ray Gricar's complex case would be of any importance to Tom Corbett...given his political aspirations?

Tom Corbett is a gutless coward. So saith Buehner...and I whole heartily agree. MOO

[Serendipitous1]

House Republicans have asked the state AG to investigate whether the Gaming Control Board failed to follow the gambling law. The AG's flack says the law bars the AG from offering the General Assembly an opinion or commenting on investigations.
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2008/05/house_gop_asks_whether_gamblin.html

MOO - Every decision TC makes (or has made) in regard to the gaming industry is tainted by the $55,000 contribution from D&L Realty (DeNaples)...which he holds on to. I would point the General Assembly to the Dauphin County DA. And, BTW, it is good to see Republicans 'tagging' TC (a Republican). They will latch on to TC's 'game'...eventually.

[Serendipitous1]

TC's campaign, thus far:
There are no current press releases. Please check back soon.
http://www.tomcorbett2008.com/news.php
There are no current news articles. Please check back soon.
http://www.tomcorbett2008.com/news.php?type=arti

MOO - Your party is looking for you, TC. But they cannot seem to get past your flack either.

[Serendipitous1]

$55,000 from a convicted felon...Pennsylvania Attorney General...that is a lot of 'grease'. I could live on that for 5 years (OK, maybe 4 with the gasoline crunch, and all). Morganelli will dig at you. But I already have you 'pegged'...as a loser. MOO

[Serendipitous1]

Thanks for the links, logicworks. ***-sher is yet another reason to vote political hacks out of office. MOO

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks
[

I am not trying to create a conspiracy theory, but this is MY Pennyslvania, too. I wouldn't leave a felon in my house, let alone want the felon 'buying' decisions that affect PA and me.
How, after getting out of prison, did he get back into the political realm? Was everyone asleep that day?



Short answer: MONEY


http://www.constitutional.net/Luksik/inq-gc1.html

[J. J. in Phila]

I gave you the answer, Asher raised funds and, while there wasn't a quid pro quo, I'm sure that brought Asher to Ridge's attention.

If you don't like it, you can always contribute a $100 K to a Republican Candidate for Governor.

[Serendipitous1]

Having listened to no fewer than 4 outstanding bagpiper complements playing the tune in Washington D.C. on Tuesday...and hearing it sung again yesterday in Bellefonte (trumping MM's address, which got no notice in the press)...I cannot get 'Amazing Grace' out of my head.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHpye0M34JQ

I listened as the US Attorney General graciously 'stuck around' to read some of the names of fallen heroes. I watched the profound affect 'Amazing Grace' had on LE officers. But I could not find a single instance online where TC (or JM for that matter) even recognized this week's tribute to LE officers...go figure. MOO

[J. J. in Phila]

I strongly suspect that the real reason TC won't become involved is because he doesn't an unsolved case on his record.

We can forget all about conspiracies, past criminal activities dating back to the 1980's , and political games.

It's sad. :(

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks



I don't buy the 'unsolved case' bit and some of 'we' will NOT 'forget' to look at past, present and future connections criminal and political.

How did TC know it would be an 'unsolved' case three years later? Is that the kind of confidence he has in his AG office investigations?
JMO [/*]

He knew it was likely to be easily solved by January 2006. There has been no new physical evidence since before that point.

I would add that it was Buehner who initially suggested it, publicly. He certainly is not a fan of TC.

We also don't have a political connection between the two. RFG had ruled out ay future run, and as a retired DA, wouldn't be in a position challenge him in 2008. He also lacked the money. Add to that the fact that no statewide incumbent has ever lost a primary challenge for re-election in the last 30 years (either party), and that TC still has strong support from fund raisers and there isn't any connection.

[J. J. in Phila]

Buehner never had an "at bat." It wasn't in his jurisdiction.

It is not just MM, or TC, however. Nothing from Union County, where RFG was last seen and where the car was found. Nothing from Smith in those eight months he was in charge. Nothing from JKA, both in the campaign or afterwards. (No, I do not believe all these people in a conspiracy.)

To me it's interesting that Buehner brought up a grand jury. OOBrett brought it up here. With one exception, there has no negative comment to it here. Nobody in Centre County has brought it up that I know of

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks


I was not referring to Buehner having the opportunity to head the investigation. I was referring to his opportunity to step up to say what he thought should be done investigation-wise. He didn't have to. He wasn't forced to. He chose to do so, which is more than can be said for 65 others who sat back and said nothing. He and McKnight were the only two.



And, no one that could call a grand jury has said so.

Now, let's look at this:

1. MS, in charge of the DA's office for 8 months. I can argue that the case was still unfolding and MS didn't want to tie the hands of the next DA (whomever that would be).

2. MM, in charge now, basically after the case went cold. Use to work for TC.

3. TC, the state AG, had ability to call a grand jury at any point.

4. D. Peter Jones, DA of Union county. Lost R primary in 2005, but won the D Nomination on write-ins. Went on to win the general and was re-elected. Jones has no ties to the AG or Centre County government.

The AG does not have the ability to order a local DA around in regard to calling a grand jury.

These 4 could have established a grand jury (three still can).

Now, we can add another name, JKA. Ran for the office in 2005. I can understand her not raising it in the campaign, but she has commented publicly on the case, and has not called for one. Her situation is like that of Buehner and McKnight in that regard.


I am not as certain as you there was no Union County involvement. They had jurisdiction and I find it doubtful that the DA would just hand the evidence found in that county over to another county, a county whose DA was 'missing', without a higher 'say-so'. That higher 'say-so' could still point back to the AG's office.


As indicated, the local DA is independent of AG in regard to if he can call a grand jury. Likewise, he isn't the one that "would just hand the evidence" over. Because there is ongoing investigation by his office, there is no need for permission.



At the time of RG's disappearance, IIRC, April 4th, jury selection in the AVM case was just beginning.



Jury selection had not started. The earliest trial day was in October, which RFG seemed to reject. You are talking about a trial that wouldn't have occurred until 2006.


Call it a 'conspiracy theory' or whatever you will. I personally think there is more than one reason, an unsolved case on TC's record, that causes the 'silence' to continue in the RG case.
JMO [/*]

Yes, when it attempts to link people with no connection, I call it, rightly, a conspiracy theory. This isn't TC silence, it's TC's, MM's, and DPJ's silence, and they don't have a connection. It's the silence of JKA on the issue of the grand jury. I do not believe that all of them are involved in a conspiracy of silence.

I could understand TC and MM, because of their past relationship, getting together to decide not call a grand jury, but DPJ doesn't have that past relationship. Nor does JKA.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks


According to this timeline, the last thing on RG's plate just prior to disappearance was jury selection in the AVM case.

2005:

04/04 - jury selection (continued)
-----------------------------------------[RFG disappears]
04/29 - A. Roy DeCaro and Charles Philip Hehmeyer file entries of appearance [/*]

The "continued" is the key. Jury selection wasn't carried out; it was "continued" for several months, i.e. it would be carried out later.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks


'Cart-before-the-horse' thinking, IMO.
The case went 'cold' as a result of MM's decisions.
It wasn't cold until he put it on ice with his 'every stone overturned' revelation with his 'fortuitious luck' statement as only hope for solution. He chose the 'cold case' route.
JMO [/*]

The last bit of physical evidence, the drive, was found in September. It was analyzed in late November or early December 2005, before MM took office.

After that, the only new things were stuff from the "Missed Leads" article and most of that was known by LE before Summer 2005.

Now, this in no was suggests that MM should not have called a grand jury, but there were no new developments in the case (until Wiley).

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks



'Continued' has nothing to do with it. It was what was next to occur as far as RG was concerned.
The nearest committee member re: the latest edition of Criminal Jury Instructions was Lewisburg based.


Yes it does. There was originally an attempt to set the trial date. When that wasn't sent, jury section was "continued," i.e. postponed. You should see other references to jury selection being "continued."



'The committee's mission is to assist the administration of justice in court proceedings by developing pattern jury instructions ***for use by both the bench and the bar.'***

http://www.courts.state.pa.us/INDEX/Aopc/annualreport/2005/14cpsji.pdf [/*]

That deals with jury instruction and, as of 4/15/05, there was no jury to instruct.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks



IIRC, the hard drive was found in October, not in September.

'Cart-before-the-horse' again, IMO---- A good investigative team looks for evidence and leads, rather than the opposite, the LEAD creating the image of a good investigation. Sitting back waiting for someone else to do the work is not investigative in any sense of the word and is SO well illustrated when fishermen and river bank strollers stumbled across both the laptop and the hard drive.


As pointed out, they did look. The date of finding the drive might have been October, but it was still prior to the election and obviously prior to MM taking office.

That's not the "the cart before the horse." In terms of known physical evidence, that was the last piece.



IMO, Wiley was not a new development or an old development. I would guess it about much to do with the reason for RG's disappearance as it does as being the reason gas prices have gone up.
JMO [/*]

That you for sharing your abiliity to do the Vulcan mind meld with RFG.

Wiley was a "development." Weather or not is is a relevant one to RFG disappearance is questionable. It certainly isn't "physical evidence." It, along with a few other things, might point to what thoughts were on RFG's mind. So might the Shotts comment. It is a development, but far from conclusive.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks


SO when exactly would we expect RG to research it? The day before jury selection? IF he took his laptop along, research seems most likely reason.
JMO [/*]

Probably not five to six months, minimum, before the jury selection for the Vargas trial. No jury was ever selected for it.

I would seriously doubt that RFG would drive for two hours and sit in his car just to read a CD that he could order.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by logicworks



I have been doing some researching on the contributions made by Bob Asher, who is also a convicted felon.

Search under wikipedia, Bob Asher. I tried to link here but it didn't come up so removed it in editing.

I happened to run across this re: Corbett and Asher and couldn't resist following the trail from there.

http://www.harrisburgbuzz.blogspot.com/

Another can of worms.
JMO [/*]

And RG's local Senator Corman, who has done nothing to get help in Centre County to find RG, was also listed above your mentioned article on Corbett and Asher. quote: "two faced and back stabbing" being part of his problem. I had sent a letter to him previously about RG's case with no actions at all.

Wouldn't it be nice if all those in government postions, who are costing the PA residents so much money in wasteful spending could be gotten out of office? Who would be in a position above AG Tom Corbette and Governor Rendell? Who is their superiors?

I am really getting tired of reading all the stories of waste, as in the Corman article on your link, and my taxes going up to pay for their wasteful spending. Manicures? I have never had one. Vacations? Have never had one. Eating in plush restaurants? What is that like?

It is definitely time to get someone in office who will get rid of ALL the people commiting the crimes and fraud. Whether they can help win an election or not. I would love to see some of those Big Shots brought down and made to pay up.

Is Morganelli the man to do that job? What are his thoughts on it? Or will he not do the job either?

[J. J. in Phila]

In terms of Rendell and Cobert, they are the people in charge. Short of impeachment, criminal conviction, or, with Cobert, losing reelection, they are it.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila
In terms of Rendell and Cobert, they are the people in charge. Short of impeachment, criminal conviction, or, with Cobert, losing reelection, they are it. [/*]

Where does the US Attorney General and President fit into the picture of how to control the people who run the states? Just curious

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by sherrijean981 <Snip>
It is definitely time to get someone in office who will get rid of ALL the people commiting the crimes and fraud. Whether they can help win an election or not. I would love to see some of those Big Shots brought down and made to pay up.

Is Morganelli the man to do that job? What are his thoughts on it? Or will he not do the job either? MOO - I listened to the "Senator Bob Rovner Talks to the Stars" program on WNWR radio (Philadelphia)...I think it aired this past weekend. The guests were John Morganelli and state treasurer democratic candidate Rob McCord.

JM spoke about his agenda, if elected...tough on crime and more to protect consumers...nothing that is not already on his campaign website. He expects a close race (all but one past election for AG were decided by a 1 or 2% margin), noting that this will be the first time the state democratic party has backed a sitting DA for AG. It was also noted that democrats ousted several incumbent republican legislators in 2006.

Anyway...nothing public about RG yet from JM's camp. This radio program was not a "call-in" format. Hopefully there will be some of those, and debate(s) with Corbett, in the coming months.

[Serendipitous1]

MOO - OTOH, TC seems poised to use the investigation of democrats in the Bonusgate Scandal to best political advantage this year. "Waiting for the explosion":

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/columnists/bumsted/s_568078.html

[Serendipitous1]

In a Pittsburgh Tribune-Review Editorial ("Gaming smell") over the 'DeNaples flap', it is suggested that TC "has no choice -- NONE -- but to open a full investigation into the machinations of the state Gaming Control Board."

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/archive/s_568061.html

MOO - but TC has a conflict of interest... his campaign committee is holding on to $55,000 in DeNaples contributions (2003-2005). What did that (and other) money buy? Did it already cause TC to defer the DeNaples investigation itself to the Dauphin County DA?

ETA - another opinion piece: "Get to the bottom of Gaming Board actions"

http://www.mcall.com/news/opinion/all-a.6407492may18,0,4942625.story

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by sherrijean981


Where does the US Attorney General and President fit into the picture of how to control the people who run the states? Just curious [/*]

Short answer. They don't. They could create political pressure and if there violation of federal law, the US AG could investigate.

Another way that the AG could be removed (though it has not happened in memory) would be ask 2/3 of State Senate to approve of his removal. Even then, I'm not sure of the [state] constitutionality.

A State Supreme Court Chief Justice (Rolf Larson)was impeached by the State House and removed by the Senate in the early 1990's, but he had been convicted in court (forging prescription or something).

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks


I assume you are referring to Hon. D. Peter Johnson, Union County, Office of the District Attorney, office in County Courthouse 103 South Second Street Lewisburg PA [/*]

You would assume correctly. In theory he could call a grand jury, because a crime could have been committed in his jurisdiction. He's also one of the DA's that has not commented.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks



You continue to point a finger in the direction of JKA, who has never had the authority to see that a Grand Jury occurred, while your other fingers curl around those in authority who could have done so. JKA offered her opinion, while others hold the power.



No, I don't point a finger at JKA in regard to impaneling a grand jury. I do categorize her with the people that have publicly commented on the case, like Buehner and McKnight. Unlike those, no call for a grand jury or, IIRC, calling for the case to be taken out of Centre County. Now, I can understand, as a candidate, why she didn't, but not afterward. (I can understand MS not wanting to form one either.)

I do care why no one from Centre County seems to want another group of investigators on this case. Now that includes JKA, but it certainly isn't limited to her.

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by logicworks <Snip>
Help me to understand this a little better, if you would please. MOO - I wish I could. I am inclined to think it is arrogance and state politics as usual. But I must rely on others who are in the know. That is why I would like JM to publicly address all of the issues, including RG's case. But it may take the news media (for instance) to draw this out of both candidates.

[Serendipitous1]

As of May 12, Tom Corbett had $1.1 million to spend on his re-election campaign...a half-million more than John Morganelli, who has about $618,000. TC raked in recent contributions from several wealthy donors.
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politics/state/20080526_Corbett_campaign_enjoys__500_000_funding_ advantage.html

MOO - It does not take a rocket scientist to understand that TC has been using his office to generate free (meaning at the taxpayers’ expense) campaign publicity. One has only to compare the “Google News” list with the ghost town that is his official campaign website.

I believe TC publicly abandoned Ray Gricar to serve his own selfish political interests. In the end, I think his coffers (regardless of the overage) will not be enough to counter JM’s challenges on a number of issues. But I am still waiting to hear (publicly) how JM intends to address RG’s cold case.

[Serendipitous1]

"Pennsylvania: The race to succeed Gov. Ed Rendell (D), who is term-limited, should be highly competitive. Democrats start with a modest edge, with Auditor General Jack Wagner and Allegheny County Executive Dan Onorato. Top Republicans include Attorney General Tom Corbett, 2006 nominee and professional football legend Lynn Swann, who lost to Rendell in 2006, and former U.S. Rep. Pat Toomey.

With the Keystone State poised to lose a seat, Pennsylvania could see major changes to its Republican-leaning map. With the GOP likely to keep its edge in the state Senate and with a close state House up for grabs, Democrats could use the governorship to secure some sway in redistricting."

http://www.stateline.org/live/details/story?contentId=313322

MOO - If Corbett is looking to run for Governor, and that race has already started, why on God's green earth would anyone re-elect him to an office he has no intention of serving? It would be unfair to the many good people in the OAG. And it would leave us (PA residents) without an elected top LE officer...not to mention NO CHANGE in the MM/TC stranglehold on the RG investigation.

[Cloudbuster]

S1 good questions!!! I think TC is running all right but running from something IMOO----OH TC are you runnnnnnnning?:lol:

[Serendipitous1]

MOO - Decisions, decisions...and no safe political ground anywhere for the AG who showed his true colors more than 3 years ago by publicly abandoning Ray Gricar, a representative of the state.

Gaming Board executive director Anne Neeb resigned last week...perhaps because of recent reports that she and another board official ordered changes to an internal background report on DeNaples. Republican lawmakers have asked TC to investigate.
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/columnists/heyl/s_570453.html

MOO - Add that to the investigation of questionable political contributions from DeNaples. But it will be 'kinda' dicey to investigate anything DeNaples while 'Friends of Tom Corbett' holds on to $55,000 of DeNaples 'generosity'.

Some Republicans are concerned that TC has not done very much campaigning. But the bonusgate investigation threatens to send the state budget into legislative chaos...as well as damaging TC's re-election hopes (not to mention derailing his "2010 train"). http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/columnists/bumsted/s_570265.html

MOO - could not have happened to a 'nicer' guy. Where's a flack when you need one?

[J. J. in Phila]

I can think of at least three people that were later convicted of felonies that were elected (two re-elected) to statewide office in PA.

I agree that TC should have done more in the RFG case, but I'm not sure how any of this is in the least relevant to the RFG case.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks




Of course, it is revelevant, unless, of course, you can't see the elephant TC has MM holding locally for him.
JMO [/*]

No, I don't see it. RFG wasn't investigating any of this stuff. None of it, as of yet at least, has a Centre County tie. I see no link with Pete Johnson, the union County DA, either

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila <Snip>
I agree that TC should have done more in the RFG case, but I'm not sure how any of this is in the least relevant to the RFG case. All JMOO. It comes down to this, J.J.

1. The state has a vested interest in determining if Ray Gricar was a victim of foul play, in connection with his position - a county DA...a representative of the Commonwealth, prosecuting violators of state laws. The state cannot choose to decline to act, simply because there is 'no evidence' of foul play, else there might very well be a 'next time'...another DA, a county judge, etc., who mysteriously disappears. If there is a possibility of foul play, the local investigation must yield to the state, because of the potential for there to be a conflict of interest in the DA's office.

2. Friends and family of Ray Gricar have been pleading for a state-level investigation for 3 years. The state AG is the one person, in particular, who could make that happen. The state AG has a moral obligation to ensure that the matter is resolved. But Tom Corbett has refused, without explanation, to even publicly acknowledge a state interest...hence (for instance) Buehner's "gutless coward" tag.

3. Tom Corbett is up for re-election...and he needs to be re-elected to keep his "2010 train" on track. John Morganelli is in an excellent position to defeat Corbett. Neither has, thus far, publicly mentioned the Ray Gricar issue.

4. There is zero expectation that Corbett will do anything different, if re-elected. There is an expectation (based on certain private assurances at this point) that Morganelli will at least do something. Unless and until the Ray Gricar issue is discussed by the candidates, in public, the best chance lies with Morganelli defeating Corbett.

5. Corbett has made bad decisions on a number of state issues. At this time, every issue that helps defeat Corbett helps Ray Gricar. "There's your sign" (relevance).

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1


4. There is zero expectation that Corbett will do anything different, if re-elected. There is an expectation (based on certain private assurances at this point) that Morganelli will at least do something. Unless and until the Ray Gricar issue is discussed by the candidates, in public, the best chance lies with Morganelli defeating Corbett.

5. Corbett has made bad decisions on a number of state issues. At this time, every issue that helps defeat Corbett helps Ray Gricar. "There's your sign" (relevance). [/*]

Just as long as it's clear that none of this stuff deals with the actual disappearance of Ray Gricar, fine. Or, in other word, Corbett has done a bad job overall and should be defeated.

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila
Just as long as it's clear that none of this stuff deals with the actual disappearance of Ray Gricar, fine. Or, in other word, Corbett has done a bad job overall and should be defeated. Actually, Corbett has done a decent job overall...as 'pretty-boy' politicians go. But this life-long Republican is ready to vote for Morganelli, just on the principle that we don't need a "gutless coward" (or his flack) running the OAG for 2-4 more years. MOO

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila
Just as long as it's clear that none of this stuff deals with the actual disappearance of Ray Gricar, fine. Or, in other word[s], Corbett has done a bad job overall and should be defeated. Correct. OTOH, this is all being scrutinized...as we type. There are CC connections...just none (that I know of) to Ray Gricar........yet. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .MO.....distanced.....opinion!

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
Actually, Corbett has done a decent job overall...as 'pretty-boy' politicians go. But this life-long Republican is ready to vote for Morganelli, just on the principle that we don't need a "gutless coward" (or his flack) running the OAG for 2-4 more years. MOO [/*]

He won't get my vote. In fairness, however, this is pretty much what I'd expect from a Pennsylvania politician.

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila
He won't get my vote. In fairness, however, this is pretty much what I'd expect from a Pennsylvania politician. Yes of course...though you might want to probe Morganelli yourself. The key is to get him 'on the record' in regard to RG. JM impresses me as a "can do - will do" kinda guy...and TC as a "woulda, coulda, shoulda"...but "let my flack handle it" kinda guy. MOO

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
Actually, Corbett has done a decent job overall...as 'pretty-boy' politicians go. But this life-long Republican is ready to vote for Morganelli, just on the principle that we don't need a "gutless coward" (or his flack) running the OAG for 2-4 more years. MOO [/*]

I agree S1!. From reading the AG's web-site, no one can find fault with the things the AG's office has done. He has hundred's of arrests of drug dealers, both in gangs, and in doctor practices. He has arrested many online predators, arrested people in government who have been scamming the people of PA of their tax dollars by pocketing their own and family members pockets (still need a lot more arrests made there), elder abuse, scams in every field, illegals, illegal LE, and the list goes on.

One big fault. Nothing on DA Ray Gricar! No attempts, no questions, no answers! I don't particularly like not having my questions to AG Tom Corbette answered by someone that wasn't elected AG, just an office boy, or as you say - "his flack". AG Tome Corbette himself needs to answer these questions. I want to know why he isn't? Doesn't look good, doe not look good at all!!!:flamemad:

[Serendipitous1]

If you have been following the DeNaples fiasco, you would understand that much of this article could have appeared yesterday...but it was copyrighted on 1/6/05, originally published in The Philadelphia Inquirer: http://archive.poconorecord.com/2005/tdo31266.htm

MOO - While TC was still writing his inaugural speech, the press was sounding the alarm about DeNaples. But TC, who benefited from DeNaples' generosity in his campaign for AG, turned a deaf ear.

TC is the AG. But what does that mean? Has he done anything except dress for the cameras? When was the last time he was actually in a courtroom? OK, if his office constrains him to being a figurehead...a delegater, he still could have helped the RG investigation immensely by becoming personally involved. But he chose to sit on the sidelines...the "gutless coward"!

TC's flack (one of several), Harley-har-de-har-har, makes $100K+ to speak for him...because TC has no answers...no imagination...no loyalty...no honor...no courage. What a total waste of taxpayer (my/your) money. http://www.pennlive.com/patriotnews/news/index.ssf?/patriotnews/stories/agency.html

Yet another TC 'oopsey' (originally caught by John Morganelli): http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/20080603_No_appeal_in_campaign-finance_ruling.html

MOO - TC has sent his high-paid flack out to ridicule Buehner, Morganelli, et al...that they do not know the law. One wonders if TC knows the law.

[Serendipitous1]

TC to "swap gags" with JM at the 18th Annual Stu Bykofsky Candidates Comedy Night in Philly.
http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/20080616_Stu_Bykofsky__Comedy__charity___public_se rvants_who_hold_back.html

Having never heard of Stu Bykofsky before (or any of the previous 17 annual comedy nights), I am supposing this is a local anomaly (J.J. should know). I think this must not be unlike national candidates appearing on national comedy shows. And Stu seems a little indignant that his 'righteous' gig got passed over by some local candidates.

But TC and JM apparently feel the need to appear. So I wonder if political 'digs' are allowed/encouraged. TC already has Harley-har-de-har-har to write one-liners for him. But JM's 'go-to guy' has his own legal problems right now, courtesy of the AG. If JM needs any uncharitable material for this charity event, I can come up with some. MOO

[J. J. in Phila]

Stu Bykofsky is a columnist for a paper a rarely read; I hadn't hear of him or the event.

He has a Wiki entry.

[Cloudbuster]

S1 here is a article:
http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:DULO34OKF9AJ:www.democracyguard.org/ben/node/139+tom+corbette&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=42&gl=us

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster
S1 here is a article:
http://www.democracyguard.org/ben/node/139 Thanks Cb. I tried to 'patch' your link. The article originally appeared 9 months ago, and TC has yet to announce any indictments. Maybe he is still looking for a sacrificial Rep to add to the Dems. MOO

[Serendipitous1]

"More than a year ago, Buehner called Corbett a 'gutless coward' for refusing to take the investigation from Centre County authorities. Buehner said Corbett retaliated by putting up a candidate to beat him in the last election. 'Like many things Tom Corbett has done, he failed miserably,' Buehner said. 'Attorney General Corbett tried to silence me because I had the audacity to question his handling of the disappearance of Ray Gricar.'"

http://community.centredaily.com/?q=node/5239

[Cloudbuster]

I would like to know the many things TC has done. I had a feeling RG and TC didn't see eye to eye and I think those many things might loom in the last investagation they did together???

[Serendipitous1]

MOO - and what was TC up to yesterday...fighting crime, prosecuting criminals, chasing down scammers? No, he was taking a potato plant tour (nice hairnet BTW):
http://www.republicanherald.com/articles/2008/07/02/news/local_news/pr_republican.20080702.a.pg1.pr02potato_s1.1783748 _top2.txt

[Cloudbuster]

S1 Im roflmao!!!!:D The net fits him. I guess he is not worried about what is currently going on oh yea Kevin Hardee Harr can deal with it.:lol:

SJ told me that Tony did a swell job on speaking up for the family. Way to go Tony the Tiger!!!

It was said well in the articles about the investagation itself being a bigger mystery than RG disappearing or at least the same. Someone(s) don't want cans of worms crawling out.
moo

[Serendipitous1]

"Buehner also accused state Attorney General Tom Corbett of using political pressure to try to quiet him and McKnight. 'Ted and I won't be silenced,' he said, adding they have the support of Gricar's daughter, nephew and former wife."
http://www.pennlive.com/news/patriotnews/index.ssf?/base/news/1214963726228090.xml&coll=1

In May 2005, Buehner convened a meeting at the PDAA office in Harrisburg, where seasoned prosecutors from across the state discussed the case with DD, DZ and MS. An invitation was delivered to the AG, who sent one of his top deputies. But that deputy made it clear he was only there to listen. The deputy did not contribute anything to the discussion. The AG sent "a listener". That showed TC's lack of commitment. It is really all about protecting his political career.
http://www.wkok.com/1070_WKOK/OTM.htm ("On the Mark", Wednesday)

[Cloudbuster]

Thanks S1! When RG endorses someone he seems passionate about it. I did not see that with MM. I did see it with Attorney General Ernie Preate. This article shows the passion he had when he was endorsing someone.
http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/1988/10/10-20-88tdc/10-20-88dnews-06.asp

Then ironically TC took over for Preate. I think that might have started some problems with RG. Im not sure how yet. Kinda looks like Preate was politically set up moo. Also if you research Denaples is spoken about by Preate.

http://www.communityinvestmentnetwork.org/single-news-item-states/article/tom-corbett-pennsylvania-state-attorney-general/?tx_ttnews%5BbackPid%5D=319&cHash=4cd200a976

http://www.dsl.psu.edu/groups/speakers/Corbett.pdf

moo

[Cloudbuster]

S1 here is the article.
Ernie Preate Jr. knows about being accused
By Tim Darragh | Of The Morning Call
January 31, 2008
On the day Louis A. DeNaples Sr., northeast Pennsylvania's most prominent businessman and philanthropist, was charged with four counts of perjury, who better to call than the last well-known northeast Pennsylvania public figure to find himself on the hot seat?

Cue up Ernie Preate Jr.
http://www.mcall.com/news/local/all-a2_5preate.6251510jan31,0,317290.story

[Cloudbuster]

I don't think fast Eddie will be available for a special task force rats!! fresh from my mailbox:
http://www.yardbird.com/reform_pa_DeWeese_Rendell_indictment.htm

[Cloudbuster]

Gov. Rendell, a Democrat, and state Attorney General Tom Corbett, a Republican, both received large political donations from DeNaples in the run-up to the awarding of the slots license. Rendell received two donations from DeNaples totaling $115,000 in August 2002. AG Corbett accepted a $25,000 contribution from DeNaples in 2004.

Both Rendell and Corbett to date have refused to return DeNaples' contributions
The link is posted in my last post. Looks like TC is going to be busy.
MOO

[Cloudbuster]

Thanks LW! I often think back to saturday April 16th 2005 and I keep wondering who owned the black airplane or jet, that flew overhead of us that day. You could tell it was going to land. It seemed like someone important was going to arrive. I often felt it was connected to this case. i suppose I will never know.:rose:

[Serendipitous1]

Morganelli is planning a news conference in Centre County in the very near future. "I'm going to be addressing this in depth," Morganelli said. He declined to say, for now, what his points will be when he addresses the Gricar investigation. But I'm willing to bet Corbett is not going to like it.

http://community.centredaily.com/?q=node/5348

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
Morganelli is planning a news conference in Centre County in the very near future. "I'm going to be addressing this in depth," Morganelli said. He declined to say, for now, what his points will be when he addresses the Gricar investigation. But I'm willing to bet Corbett is not going to like it.

http://community.centredaily.com/?q=node/5348 [/*]

I'll reserve judgment until he does.

[gstickley]

S1, I'm so happy to have contact with you; I feel like a long lost relative has returned home!!!

I have faith in Morganelli. At the very least, I believe things will get interesting; I can't think he'd let RG slide into nothingness the way TG has done. (I sure hope he doesn't pat anyone on the back except BB & TM!!!)

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by gstickley
S1, I'm so happy to have contact with you; I feel like a long lost relative has returned home!!!

I have faith in Morganelli. At the very least, I believe things will get interesting; I can't think he'd let RG slide into nothingness the way TG has done. (I sure hope he doesn't pat anyone on the back except BB & TM!!!) [/*]

I hope you mean TC, not TG.

[Serendipitous1]

This was in an e-mail, for what it is worth:

Corbett went to State College on May 12, 2005 only to playup his little buddy Mikey for district attorney. He commented on the Gricar investigation only when prodded by a reporter. Corbett has never shown any concern about Gricar’s disappearance. There was some bad blood there. Corbett needed Madeira to be elected so the investigation would stay local. Arnold was a loose cannon. When she brought up all that Bob Jones stuff, Madeira went ballistic. Corbett sent money to Madeira through the Centre County Republicans so he could stomp her down. Corbett and Madeira both need to go.

I was able to confirm some of the particulars via:
http://www.centregop.org/madeira_da/endorsements.htm#endorsement_corbett and
http://www.campaignfinance.state.pa.us/ReportSearch.aspx

An aside - Wanted: captions for these pictures:
http://www.centregop.org/madeira_da/images/mm_and_tc2.jpg
http://www.centregop.org/madeira_da/images/mm_and_tc3.jpg
http://www.centregop.org/madeira_da/images/mm_and_tc4.jpg

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by gstickley
S1, I'm so happy to have contact with you; I feel like a long lost relative has returned home!!!

I have faith in Morganelli. At the very least, I believe things will get interesting; I can't think he'd let RG slide into nothingness the way TG has done. (I sure hope he doesn't pat anyone on the back except BB & TM!!!) Ditto that, and I knew what you meant in re: Tom Corbett.

Morganelli is still chipping away at the edges:
http://www.campaignsitebuilder.com/news/disp_news.asp?ID=10577&siteid=178
But he needs to break out of southeastern PA. And there is nothing better to show Corbett's true color as his complete lack of interest in the sudden and unexplained disappearance of a sitting DA.

And all of the Corbett worshipers (we now know the names of several in the PDAA) are damned along with him. They did precisely what they accused Bob Buehner of doing (even though Buehner knows more than they do about it)...and their fraud was rightfully and thankfully exposed. And in typical style (quote now hangs on my wall) Bob Buehner said: "I have faced murderers, rapists and pedophiles in court and a few pansy DAs in suits don't bother me."
http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2008/07/03/da_association_announces_suppo.aspx

[gstickley]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila


I hope you mean TC, not TG. [/*]

Definitely meant TC.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by gstickley


Definitely meant TC. [/*]

I kind of thought that was the case. :)

[J. J. in Phila]

I frankly still don't see the disappearance cutting as a campaign issue. TC had major indictments of some Democratic House staffers and Veon, and the scandal makes him look like a "reformer."

[Cloudbuster]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
This was in an e-mail, for what it is worth:

Corbett went to State College on May 12, 2005 only to playup his little buddy Mikey for district attorney. He commented on the Gricar investigation only when prodded by a reporter. Corbett has never shown any concern about Gricar’s disappearance. There was some bad blood there. Corbett needed Madeira to be elected so the investigation would stay local. Arnold was a loose cannon. When she brought up all that Bob Jones stuff, Madeira went ballistic. Corbett sent money to Madeira through the Centre County Republicans so he could stomp her down. Corbett and Madeira both need to go.

I was able to confirm some of the particulars via:
http://www.centregop.org/madeira_da/endorsements.htm#endorsement_corbett and
http://www.campaignfinance.state.pa.us/ReportSearch.aspx

An aside - Wanted: captions for these pictures:
http://www.centregop.org/madeira_da/images/mm_and_tc2.jpg
http://www.centregop.org/madeira_da/images/mm_and_tc3.jpg
http://www.centregop.org/madeira_da/images/mm_and_tc4.jpg [/*]

If Corbett endorsed MM then noway nohow would RG be backing MM IMOO. As for the photo's I will say MM and TC look alot happier and merrier than the photo of TC and Ray together. Mighty big difference.
Caption1- United we stand
Caption 2-Hand In Hand
Caption3- We swear to tell books of lies. LOL

JMOO LOL

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila
I frankly still don't see the disappearance cutting [it] as a campaign issue. TC had major indictments of some Democratic House staffers and Veon, and the scandal makes him look like a "reformer." I think you are confusing the man with his office. TC may be calling some of the shots, but I doubt he has done any of the 'heavy lifting' over there in 3-1/2 years.

I am much more interested in his character. And his refusal to publicly show any leadership or concern in regard to the disappearance speaks volumes. I am sick and tired of hearing what TC cannot legally do...that is not an excuse for doing nothing. If TC had actually wanted the investigation (as he should have), I doubt it would have taken much arm twisting to get it from MS or MM.

Cloudbuster and logicworks: thanks for the witty photo captions. They will look good on my wall too.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks


I wonder if anyone checked to see if this book was open to the page about what to do in the event a DA disappears....... [/*]

It wasn't the one found, which wasn't hardcover.

[Serendipitous1]

In the political stock market, Mr. Corbett is sinking while Mr. Meehan is looking good in the downturn.
http://www.thebulletin.us/site/index.cfm?newsid=19826209&BRD=2737&PAG=461&dept_id=576361&rfi=8

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
In the political stock market, Mr. Corbett is sinking while Mr. Meehan is looking good in the downturn.
http://www.thebulletin.us/site/index.cfm?newsid=19826209&BRD=2737&PAG=461&dept_id=576361&rfi=8 [/*]

For Governor, but not for re-election as AG. Meehan is local; the Bulletin basically covers Meehan's home county, Delaware.

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila
For Governor, but not for re-election as AG. Meehan is local; the Bulletin basically covers Meehan's home county, Delaware. Did you read the article?

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
Did you read the article? [/*]

Yes, and you apparently missed the word "front-runner," used to describe TC. Actually, his 3 point lead is an improvement over the last time. His opponent (Eisenhower?) was declared elected by the press on election night. Then those last counties in the "T" came in.

I have reason to believe that:

1. It will be a good year for the GOP in PA in general.

2. The indictments in "Bonus-gate" make him look like a hero. He comes off as a "reformer."

[Serendipitous1]

http://www.phoenixvillenews.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=19861316&BRD=1673&PAG=461&dept_id=635495&rfi=6

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
http://www.phoenixvillenews.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=19861316&BRD=1673&PAG=461&dept_id=635495&rfi=6 [/*]

Not much of a bind. He spouts "It's an ongoing investigation. I can't talk about it," until November.

[J. J. in Phila]

Asher went back into politics under Ridge. He's the RNC member for PA and owner of Asher Chololates.

I actually was invited, but I didn't want to spend $1,000 to meet TC.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks



I do not call a conviction for conspiracy, five counts of mail fraud, four counts of interstate transportation in aid of racketeering, and one count of perjury, sole purpose to gain $300,000 in campaign contributions 'small peanuts', whether in or out of chocolate.



"Small peanuts" is your term, not mine. I'm merely noting that Asher's post conviction involvement precedes TC entering on to the political scene, IIRC, even before his appointment after Preate left.

Asher is also personally wealthy, and contributes, IIRC. He was Thornburgh's choice GOP State Committee Chair.

[Serendipitous1]

Tom Corbett was so concerned about Ray Gricar's mysterious disappearance, that he drove up to State College less than one month later..........to endorse MM as Gricar's replacement.
http://www.centregop.org/madeira_da/images/mm_and_tc2.jpg
http://www.centregop.org/madeira_da/images/mm_and_tc3.jpg

Well done, one term Uncle Tom. Well done, one term Mike. Your reward awaits you.

[puzzled]

Don't make me puke!

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by puzzled
Don't make me puke! [/*]

It's not too uncommon for a state row officer to sweep in and endorse the party nominee. In this case, Madeira worked for him (and, of course, still seems to be, politically).

S1, did TC give his endorsement after the primary?

[J. J. in Phila]

I just checked, and it was before the primary. That is interesting. TC really wanted MM in there. MM would also be somewhat more "beholden" to TC for that.

[Serendipitous1]

State AG's workers help on campaign
They do it legally, a spokesman said, but activists said it's poor judgment.
http://ydr.inyork.com/ci_9936542

Although dual roles are not illegal, Morganelli's campaign alleges some of those staffers were reimbursed for campaign work with taxpayer money. "During the period that they were doing the political work, they did NOT take a leave of absence, but still were on the state payroll," the campaign said in a statement. "It is the same conduct, in part, for which Senator Fumo is being prosecuted for."
http://www.politickerpa.com/alexroarty/961/morganelli-accuses-corbett-mishandling-bonusgate

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
State AG's workers help on campaign
They do it legally, a spokesman said, but activists said it's poor judgment.
http://ydr.inyork.com/ci_9936542

Although dual roles are not illegal, Morganelli's campaign alleges some of those staffers were reimbursed for campaign work with taxpayer money. "During the period that they were doing the political work, they did NOT take a leave of absence, but still were on the state payroll," the campaign said in a statement. "It is the same conduct, in part, for which Senator Fumo is being prosecuted for."
http://www.politickerpa.com/alexroarty/961/morganelli-accuses-corbett-mishandling-bonusgate [/*]

What happens if someone gets hurt while helping Corbette campaign? Will they file worker's compensation or bill the state for any medical treatments?

Where are those checks coming from that were paid to these people? Out of the state bank account? If yes, then tax payers are paying for it.

Does Tom Corbette have to repay these people out of his own personal funds?

When a present Attorney General is running for office, does the state pay his expenses to do so?

Are the people who are covering for the ones helping him, putting in more hours a week themselves or doing the other person's work at the same time as their own? Are they expected to do this person's 40 hour week in just a couple hours with no overtime? Doesn't seem quite right for the person doing the extra work? And if they can do the person's work in a matter of hours what does the Attorney General need the person on leave for?

Seems like Mr. Hardy-har-har has himself something going and it does sound exactly like what some of the 12 who were arrested were doing. "Do as I say, not as I do, AG Tom Corbette"

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by sherrijean981


What happens if someone gets hurt while helping Corbette campaign? Will they file worker's compensation or bill the state for any medical treatments?

Where are those checks coming from that were paid to these people? Out of the state bank account? If yes, then tax payers are paying for it.

Does Tom Corbette have to repay these people out of his own personal funds?

When a present Attorney General is running for office, does the state pay his expenses to do so?



If they would have an accident on their own time, the workers would not get workman's compensation.

The campaign pays for these things. Corbett (and Moragnelli, for that matter), raise funds from private individuals and pay them out for expenses.

In all fairness, a lot of this is standard state politics, both ways. We're basically hearing just Morganelli's side, because nobody's sticking up for Corbett (and I have no intention of starting).

[Serendipitous1]

For a long time I have been looking for the big secret...not a big lie or at the obvious bunches of official little lies. No one from the family has come forward with anything, so I am thinking they do not know. But I am thinking that the AG's office is where the big secret may lie. And I am convinced, more than ever, that TC must go if we are ever to learn the truth. I will vote for John Morganelli, even if he does not offer a plan to reverse the 3+ years of state stone-walling.

There is less than 4 months left for those who know what happened to Ray Gricar to come forward. I truly believe John Morganelli, if elected, will clean house and solve this case. And the King and all of his horses will be looking for new jobs, if not at criminal charges. It is going to happen...I can feel it!

[day2day]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
For a long time I have been looking for the big secret...not a big lie or at the obvious bunches of official little lies. No one from the family has come forward with anything, so I am thinking they do not know. But I am thinking that the AG's office is where the big secret may lie. And I am convinced, more than ever, that TC must go if we are ever to learn the truth. I will vote for John Morganelli, even if he does not offer a plan to reverse the 3+ years of state stone-walling.

There is less than 4 months left for those who know what happened to Ray Gricar to come forward. I truly believe John Morganelli, if elected, will clean house and solve this case. And the King and all of his horses will be looking for new jobs, if not at criminal charges. It is going to happen...I can feel it! [/*]



I really pray that you are right S1. I do....

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
For a long time I have been looking for the big secret...not a big lie or at the obvious bunches of official little lies. No one from the family has come forward with anything, so I am thinking they do not know. But I am thinking that the AG's office is where the big secret may lie. And I am convinced, more than ever, that TC must go if we are ever to learn the truth. I will vote for John Morganelli, even if he does not offer a plan to reverse the 3+ years of state stone-walling.



While there is stonewalling, no doubt, from AG, I question the "big secret" coming from there.

PA has three state wide row officers, the State Treasurer, the State Auditor General, and the State Attorney General. In the 20 years prior to RFG disappearing all three were convicted, in office, of wrongdoing, Auditor General Benedict and Treasurer Dwyer in 1986-7, and Attorney General Preate in 1995. All three were brought down by the FBI. (As an aside, I have an acquaintance who was questioned by the FBI in two of the three.)

If RFG had something on someone in the office, that was criminal, he'd go to the FBI, almost beyond doubt. If it was something political, he could have released it in the 2004 primary, when TC faced a tough race against Bruce Castor.

Buehner suggested that RFG and TC were not close. If there was some problem between the two, that might help explain the lack of interest in the case on TC's part. Perhaps a "little secret," but not one that would lead to murder.

[Cloudbuster]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
For a long time I have been looking for the big secret...not a big lie or at the obvious bunches of official little lies. No one from the family has come forward with anything, so I am thinking they do not know. But I am thinking that the AG's office is where the big secret may lie. And I am convinced, more than ever, that TC must go if we are ever to learn the truth. I will vote for John Morganelli, even if he does not offer a plan to reverse the 3+ years of state stone-walling.

There is less than 4 months left for those who know what happened to Ray Gricar to come forward. I truly believe John Morganelli, if elected, will clean house and solve this case. And the King and all of his horses will be looking for new jobs, if not at criminal charges. It is going to happen...I can feel it! [/*]

S1 I think the secret belongs to one or 2 in the AG office. I think she knows something. I think the secret will have something to do with wiretaps and who payed for the phone calls. Some type of corruption, a investagation if you will.

[Serendipitous1]

May 9, 2005 - TC’s Remarks for the 2005 Pennsylvania Police Memorial, Harrisburg.
“There is no place in our society for those who would harm our peace officers. An attack on an officer is an attack on the very fabric of our society. We are forever indebted to every man and woman who carries a badge in this great country of ours. They are the guardians against lawlessness. They protect and defend the peaceful society that most of us take for granted on a daily basis, and they risk injury or death to come to our aid in times of emergency.”
http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/press.aspx?id=425

I have been to the DC memorial for fallen officers. I wonder if TC has. Too bad RG did not carry a badge, I guess...because TC was already thinking he was likely dead:

May 12, 2005 - TC said he concluded that, because Ray Gricar's keys have not been recovered, he intended to return to his car...and that hope for a happy ending to Gricar's disappearance is fading because so much time has gone by without a trace of him.
http://www.centredaily.com/news/ray_gricar/story/3777.html

In which case, what should an AG do?:

May 14, 2006 - TC's Waynesburg College Commencement Remarks, entitled 'Do the right thing'.
“Responsibility means taking on risk and uncertainty to accomplish something you believe in. Responsibility means long hours of hard work gathering the information you need to make wise choices. And responsibility means having the inner moral strength to always do what is right, even when those around you make other choices. As Mark Twain said: ‘Do the right thing. It will gratify some people and astonish the rest.’"
http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/theoffice.aspx?id=1275

Too bad TC did not believe in RG or his office. Too bad TC did not exercise his moral obligation to be a responsible AG. But hey, he is a good looking, smooth talking a-hole, in a world full of a-holes...perfect gubernatorial material.

On the other hand, Bob Buehner said he is guided by the principle, “You can never go wrong doing the right thing.” And he did it. He did the right thing. And he is not even seeking a higher political office.

But JM is. I believe JM can make a difference as the next AG; that it is not too late to provide closure for RG’s loved ones and some measure of relief for all of Pennsylvania’s fine prosecutors (even the Corbett worshipers)...something TC is quite apparently not capable of.

But we have yet to hear from JM. And so we must wait. Go figure.

[Serendipitous1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmCxE76jkjc

[Cloudbuster]

This song reminds me of this case but this one goes out as special to S1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEJIQzUT8dc

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster
This song reminds me of this case but this one goes out as special to S1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEJIQzUT8dcThanks Cb. Some people looked at me "funny" when I used Osama's likeness for target practice. It taught me a lot though, about the lack of commitment...and the consequences.

[Serendipitous1]

When the hydrogen bubble built up under the dome at TMI, I took my family away to State College...a familiar place, far enough away, I figured. It was an impromptu "vacation" for the kids. We took in a gymnastics event at Penn State and had a wonderful time. And, as it turned out, nothing bad happened at TMI...because the right people acted in the right way and in time to prevent a disaster.

I observed the security 'flinch' after Ray Gricar disappeared. I know what was on the minds of district attorneys across the state. But taking their families away for several days was not going to be their solution to this potential crisis...because the right people did not act in the right way or timely way in this instance.

Time has a way of making many forget. But the families of Luna and Gricar will surely never forget. And it would be tragic if another family has to be added to the list before there is an appropriate response.

Personally, I do not care so much what happened to Gricar as I do that whatever happened to him becomes known. If his disappearance was connected to his career, that is a matter of state importance. But the potential for another, similar disaster exists to this day, because this case was mishandled...and the state...my state...does not care.

[Cloudbuster]

S1 I agree with you 100 percent!!! I also think RG wants it known what happened. If it was'nt for that feeling I probably might have given up, but for me it's like it haunts at me to go on for the truth. It never leaves my mind and it's so intense. I do believe everyone who has stayed with this case it must be the same feeling for them. I know we have all stayed dedicated on here.:rose: Surly something has got to give. Im sure there are many that would like us to forget, but we won't!!! NO SECRET REMAINS A SECRET FOREVER!!!! A secret is somethng that wants to be known.

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by logicworks
Interesting read......

http://www.ldnews.com/ci_9935739 Also:

http://politicker.com/corbett-campaign-questions-how-morganelli-raising-money

Brian [Mc]Nutt...another Corbett brown-noser. He can take an extended leave of absense from his "duties" in the AG's office to campaign for TC, and we Pennsylvanians are somehow still suppose to feel secure? Why, on God's green earth, do we need him in the first place? Just another waste of precious resources!

[Serendipitous1]

And to think that Morganelli does not have to rely on the likes of Louis DeNaples, et al., for campaign money, as did/does Corbett. And to think that Morganelli does not have to hand feed political support and campaign money to the likes of Mike Madeira, at the expense of Ray Gricar, as did Corbett. Go figure, Mr. [Mc]Nutt!

[J. J. in Phila]

It's standard politics.

[J. J. in Phila]

There are numerous problems that Morganelli is facing (none of his own making).

1. Democratic turnout. While Democratic registration is higher, it got higher because of the PA Democratic primary for president. Who won that? Clinton. Who probably won't be the Democratic nominee? Clinton. Some of that increase in Democratic registration will either stay Republican or stay home.

2. Bonusgate gave Corbett a chance to shine. He looks like a crusader who is there to "clean things up." It's very high profile.

3. Because of the nature of Bonusgate, the Democrats can't use an effective campaign tool this year (It helped to deliver PA to Kerry in 2004).

4. There is some power to generate press that comes with incumbency. For several months, I've heard TC on the radio, and seen his name on buses. I don't recall seeing Morganelli's name.

5. Corbett's fund raising is much better.

Morganelli is a strong candidate, but so was James Eisenhower in 2004.

I'm not happy about that, but I'm not looking for a political solution tho the RFG case.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila
There are numerous problems that Morganelli is facing (none of his own making).

1. Democratic turnout. While Democratic registration is higher, it got higher because of the PA Democratic primary for president. Who won that? Clinton. Who probably won't be the Democratic nominee? Clinton. Some of that increase in Democratic registration will either stay Republican or stay home.

2. Bonusgate gave Corbett a chance to shine. He looks like a crusader who is there to "clean things up." It's very high profile.

3. Because of the nature of Bonusgate, the Democrats can't use an effective campaign tool this year (It helped to deliver PA to Kerry in 2004).

4. There is some power to generate press that comes with incumbency. For several months, I've heard TC on the radio, and seen his name on buses. I don't recall seeing Morganelli's name.

5. Corbett's fund raising is much better.

Morganelli is a strong candidate, but so was James Eisenhower in 2004.

I'm not happy about that, but I'm not looking for a political solution tho the RFG case. [/*]

There was the week of exciting news that Mr. Buehner and Mr. McKnight created that put Centre County DA Madeira and Attorney General Tom Corbette in a bad light. It was cast over the news networks in multiple counties.

These quotes came from the article posted:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08209/899909-178.stm

Quote:
"The attorney general has proven with many, many of his investigations that he'll go after crime and corruption anywhere it is and will do his job no matter what the circumstances," Mr. Nutt said."
Quote

Quote:
"Tom Corbett has proven that he will do what he has taken the oath of office to do, and that is to protect the residents of the commonwealth," Mr. Nutt said."
Quote

From what is going on in Centre County, with the disappearance of one of his officers of the court, DA Ray Gricar, he has not done his best to protect the residents of Centre County.

RG is still missing and his office has not gone out of his way to do anything. If Mr Nutt and Mr Farley can take leaves of absence to run his campaign, why could they have not been put in Centre County to help the investigator, Det. Rickard, with his investigation? Obviously their jobs in the Attorney General's office are not needed if a few other people can cover what they do while they are out campaigning and riding around in jets with the AG or for the AG.

With that many people in the AG's office there has to be squandering of state money in many places, in both Republican and Democratic parties. He should have investigated his party first. Then he wouldn't be looking like it is part of his campaign run.

As for his setting up an Elder Abuse Network, they don't respond to letters when one happens. I am still waiting for a response to my letter. Of course it was probably one of the items in the recycling bin, since it was going on in Centre County.

[J. J. in Phila]

S1, take a look at the Post Gazette coverage. How many times is Buehner's (totally justified, IMO) criticism of TC mentioned in its coverage of the press conference?

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila
S1, take a look at the Post Gazette coverage. How many times is Buehner's (totally justified, IMO) criticism of TC mentioned in its coverage of the press conference? I did not see it mentioned at all. But then Buehner was not campaigning for JM at the time. JM has yet to publicly address the AG's role in the RG investigation...something he has told PB (and a number of others) that he will do during the campaign.

Hopefully, when that happens, there will be additional information made public (by JM and others) which will call TC's attitude and judgement (perhaps even his character) in this matter into question. It may be viewed as just one added point of (negative) attack...and it remains to be seen how far beyond Centre County it might resonate. But JM has listed a number of other issues...people in different parts of the state can pick their own pet peeve if they choose to vote for JM.

I do not know what JM will bring to Centre County...simple criticism or something more substantial. But to be of benefit to the RG investigation, he must couple whatever it is with what he will do, if elected. And it has to be a sound plan, under the law. Stay tuned...it should be interesting.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
I did not see it mentioned at all. But then Buehner was not campaigning for JM at the time. JM has yet to publicly address the AG's role in the RG investigation...something he has told PB (and a number of others) that he will do during the campaign.


Here is a link to the article:

http://post-gazette.com/pg/08184/894214-100.stm

It doesn't even cover Buehner's (legitimate) criticism of TC. This is a guy who sent the letter called TC "gutless" and sent him the letter; no mention of TC in the article.

Wade through the Post Gazette's overall coverage of the RFG disappearance. They have a certain slant to their stories on the disappearance.

I'm not happy about it, but it is another problem, that will bounce into the political arena.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1


Hopefully, when that happens, there will be additional information made public (by JM and others) which will call TC's attitude and judgement (perhaps even his character) in this matter into question. It may be viewed as just one added point of (negative) attack...and it remains to be seen how far beyond Centre County it might resonate. But JM has listed a number of other issues...people in different parts of the state can pick their own pet peeve if they choose to vote for JM.

[/*]

Just a political note here, but which is more damaging to to TC?

1. Moganelli (TC's Democratic opponent) critical of TC's conduct as AG in regard to the Gricar case.

2. Buehner (a local DA, not running against him and in the same party as TC) critical of TC's conduct as AG in regard to the Gricar case.

I would argue #2.

What story was run?

Buehner (a local DA) critical of Madeira and Johnson's (two other local DA's) conduct in regard to the Gricar case.

I'd be very happy with the Post Gazette story if I was TC.

[Serendipitous1]

I cannot speak to the Post-Gazette's politics or editorial proclivities. And it appears other news outlets, particularly in western PA, also ignored the early July fireworks in regard to TC. Buehner's remarks, alone, have clearly not been enough to register this as an issue in the race for AG...even in central PA. But in hastily assembling and sending an ill-equipped “posse” (including Dep. AG Sheetz) to Bellefonte, Buehner’s remarks obviously struck a nerve which JM had yet to reach.

Buehner laid the foundation for an issue JM can now exploit. There is plenty of time. If he levels similar criticism and states what he will do if elected AG (something legally sound), it will become an issue even the Post-Gazettes of the state will report on, as the P-G has done on other issues JM has raised: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08209/899909-178.stm

I believe both candidates are technically qualified to be AG. But we know where this investigation will be next year if TC were to be reelected. Taking up this issue should be good for JM and, hopefully, ultimately benefit the investigation. For me, it is only necessary to know that JM has a sound plan to jumpstart the RG investigation. There are other issues with TC that should garner enough votes for JM.

If I had my druthers though, there would be something more substantial brought to light...something more than mere criticism of TC in regard to the investigation...something which would make this particular issue really resonate with large numbers of voters. I do not know what it might be or from where it might come. But if it does come, neither candidate will be able to ignore this issue.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
I cannot speak to the Post-Gazette's politics or editorial proclivities. And it appears other news outlets, particularly in western PA, also ignored the early July fireworks in regard to TC. Buehner's remarks, alone, have clearly not been enough to register this as an issue in the race for AG...even in central PA. But in hastily assembling and sending an ill-equipped “posse” (including Dep. AG Sheetz) to Bellefonte, Buehner’s remarks obviously struck a nerve which JM had yet to reach.


The "Pickett's Charge" of DA's were not there in defending TC. There were there defending MM. Most were his cronies from DA's Association.

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila
The "Pickett's Charge" of DA's were not there in defending TC. There were there defending MM. Most were his cronies from DA's Association. My view:

Then you missed the most distressing point of that press conference. Rallying around MM was just the cover for gathering the players and for setting the modus operandi for much of that event. But the real nexus and agenda was damage control on TC's behalf.

TG: "[the] panel said that they showed up on their own, not at the behest of MM or TC. (on july 3rd? okeedokee... )". TG was disheartened that his uncle was almost forgotten in what he said seemed to be more of a political rally. "Two DAs stick their necks out [for Ray Gricar] and 8 to 10 guys rally around the DA who hasn't disappeared. I don't get it."

Read TC's July 2nd letter to Buehner again...and note, at the bottom - copies to Dobias, Foulk, Madeira and Johnson. TC (and his flack, KH) had just taken the second round of verbal shelling from Buehner that morning on the radio. His letter was not written to lecture Buehner about the law...it was to choreograph the PDAA "dance". And he sent one of his top people to Bellefonte to oversee the no-rehersal performance.

MM was counting on getting some political refuge via the hastily assembled group, led by Corbett worshipers. Instead, the plan backfired and he got left in the lurch he helped create. I guess there is something to be said for rehersals...they probably do not teach how to feign righteous indignation in law school. Come to think of it, they probably do not teach righteous indignation either, else Buehner and McKnight might have found more support among colleagues long ago, when it mattered most to RG's case.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
My view:

Then you missed the most distressing point of that press conference. Rallying around MM was just the cover for gathering the players and for setting the modus operandi for much of that event. But the real nexus and agenda was damage control on TC's behalf.


I disagree there. Of the 9 DA's there, at least 6 were officers/board members of the PDAA (I just put it on the Press Conference thread). Who are two of those? MM and Johnson.

Look who didn't speak, at least. The DA's from the local area, save Johnson, either were not there or didn't speak. Clinton, Huntingdon, Blair, Clearfield, Lycoming, Mifflin, Snyder, Cambria and Indiana County DA's, all close, didn't come rushing to a colleagues' defense. Who showed up? The guy from Delaware County, south of Phila, more than 200 miles away; the guy from Erie, closer than Canada than to Bellefonte.


I guess there is something to be said for rehersals...they probably do not teach how to feign righteous indignation in law school.

They do, to trial attorneys.

This was an attempt for MM to cover his own a$$, in his own constituency. It failed.

Here is what the CDT:

Gricar’s nephew, Tony, who has been the family spokesman through the entire agonizing process, offered this perspective: “Two district attorneys stick their necks out to stick up for Ray, and Madeira wrangled up eight DAs to counter their attempts. Two DAs stick their necks out and eight to 10 guys rally around the DA who hasn’t disappeared. I don’t get it.” Nor do we.

http://www.centredaily.com/329/story/711516.html

Emphasis added.

There was a political defeat on July 3; it was of Madeira. You won't it this September, but you might in April or November of 2009.

There are three prosecutors that could do something in this case; two were in that room. One of those two just got his head handed to him.

[Serendipitous1]

Corbett faces tough race against Dem wave, Morganelli.
http://www.mcall.com/news/local/all-a1_5agrace.6523989jul30,0,4001117.story

[Mc]Nutt thinks the state AG can hide from Democrats in the political cellar.

Corbett: Note to self - must get new spokesperson AND new campaign manager.

[J. J. in Phila]

From the same article:


The Bonusgate busts make it hugely difficult for Morganelli to cast his foe as a business-as-usual creature of Harrisburg, said G. Terry Madonna, a veteran pollster and political science professor at Franklin & Marshall College in Lancaster. That means Morganelli will have to find other ways to ding Corbett's armor.

[Serendipitous1]

Morganelli has the credentials to be a fine AG...even a remarkable AG because he, unlike his opponent, apparently comes to the table without the suffocating and insufferable political baggage.

As a fairly recent former president of the PDAA, Morganelli is perfectly positioned to hang Corbett out to dry on this case...a case which begs the question, why did Corbett deliberately turn his back on Ray Gricar?...a flaw (or worse) which is absolutely unbecoming of the state's chief law enforcement officer.

There is plenty of time left...and timing is, no doubt, important to Morganelli. I only hope he can get the AG's office out of the political cellar, and undo the wrong by doing something positive for Ray Gricar's case.

[J. J. in Phila]

S1, I think you should read my last post under the press conference thread. The political doom of someone else may be more likely, though not from the RFG case.

[Serendipitous1]

Pennsylvania Department of State. Campaign Finance Reporting:

Friends of Senator Dave Brightbill - 3/27/2006, refund of $10,000 contribution, to D & L Realty.

Friends of Senator Dave Brightbill - 4/6/2006, refund of $10,000 contribution to, D & L Realty.

------------

Friends of Tom Corbett - 7/27/08 - retained $55,000 in campaign contributions in 2004 and 2005 from D & L, an organization run by Louis DeNaples.

"To say there's any issue there is just outrageous," said Brian Nutt, Mr. Corbett's campaign manager, adding that the donations were properly disclosed and came before casino license applications were submitted to Mr. Corbett.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08209/899909-178.stm

Hey [Mc]Nutt. We believe you, buddy! A minor point though...why did it fall on the Dauphin County DA to investigate DeNaples?

[J. J. in Phila]

30 days ago, JM spoke with PB and said the following:



Northampton County District Attorney John Morganelli, the Democratic nominee to take on state Attorney General Tom Corbett in the upcoming election, told me today he's planning a news conference in Centre County in the very near future.

"I'm going to be addressing this in depth," Morganelli said.



And



Morganelli said he knew Gricar and, like just about everyone else who knew the man, had a great deal of respect for him. He declined to say, for now, what his points will be when he addresses the Gricar investigation.



http://community.centredaily.com/?q=node/5348

I'm still waiting.

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila <Snip>
http://community.centredaily.com/?q=node/5348
I'm still waiting. Patience. There is time...and timing seems to be important to these guys. Some of us have been waiting even longer, based on assurances from him or his campaign staff...before he spoke to PB, before Buehner's press conference even. You can ask for yourself. Contact The Campaign:
http://www.johnmorganelli.com

[Serendipitous1]

"That giant sucking sound is state government"
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/columnists/whispers/s_582052.html

Seems there is this call-in talk show, 'The Inside Story with Marty Griffin', on KDKA news radio (Pittsburgh). Recently (July 21?), while MG was on vacation, Ron Klink, a Democrat, filled in. Klink invited JM on the show to rip TC over Bonusgate. Then, when MG went on vacation again last week, TC apparently guest-hosted the show (on Friday)..."acting in his capacity as a public official, not as Tom Corbett campaigning for re-election" (according to a campaign spokesman). Oh yeah, like that would ever happen...with the demand for equal time being what it is...especially in Corbett country.

I was hoping to find both shows online. I did not find last Friday's show with TC yet, but I did find the Klink/JM show (in 2 parts):
http://www.kdkaradio.com/pages/43265.php
Bonusgate...and TC's conflict of interest, plus DeNaples (Casinogate?)...and TC's conflict of interest. But no mention of TC's most blatant character failure...the one that has transcended nearly his entire term in office...turning his back on Ray Gricar's plight.

Go figure. Hopefully, after trading blunted jabs at Bykofsky's charity event next week, JM will take off the gloves and come to the hub of Pennsylvania's "T" voters, where state elections are won...and lost.

[Serendipitous1]

Gricar said he would not endorse a candidate for any other office. "There's only one office where I believe my experience is important to the public," Gricar said. "I have an obligation to the public to state who I think would make a better attorney general."
(Preate, 1988, http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/1988/10/10-20-88tdc/10-20-88dnews-06.asp )

AG Preate says top Centre County prosecutor Ray Gricar is grossly underpaid, weakening law and drug enforcement efforts. "Here we are in a first-rate county, treating the D.A. like he's a second-class citizen."
http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/1990/04/04-09-90tdc/04-09-90dnews-03.asp

AG Preate proposed establishing a Centre County Drug Task Force whose sole purpose would be to target narcotics traffickers in the county.
http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/1991/04/04-09-91tdc/04-09-91dnews-02.asp

Centre County DA Ray Gricar also announced his "total, wholehearted and enthusiastic" support for [Preate's re-election]. "I'm very impressed by his record," Gricar said.
http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/1992/10/10-19-92tdc/10-19-92dnews-5.asp

Seven years after former AG Preate launched a statewide campaign against drug pushers, his successor [TOM CORBETT] declared it an expensive failure. And Ray Gricar was forced to scrap plans to form a regional drug task force when it appeared Preate was in legal trouble. "We didn't want to get involved at that point,'' Gricar said. (CDT, 09/17/96).

[Serendipitous1]

That is "bad blood 101...dash A". There is more. But it has apparently all gone "under the radar" in Centre County for all these years Ray Gricar has been missing. Go figure.

Suffice it to say, we need a people's AG, not someone with political aspirations (and payback) uppermost in their puny brain. We need someone who has a genuine interest in learning what happened to Ray Gricar. The question is, is JM that person? What saith JM?

[J. J. in Phila]

I doubt if RFG's support for a convicted felon (Preate) is really important here.

:rolleyes:

BTW, what "conflict of interest" in Bonusgate?

[Cloudbuster]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila
I doubt if RFG's support for a convicted felon (Preate) is really important here.

:rolleyes:

BTW, what "conflict of interest" in Bonusgate? [/*]

JJ lol what do u find important in this case? Every theory you have shoot down (scrathes my head) What does seem to be the right theory by your standards?:punch:

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster


JJ lol what do u find important in this case? Every theory you have shoot down (scrathes my head) What does seem to be the right theory by your standards?:punch: [/*]

CB, posting "conflict of interest," when TC prosecutes a case, really doesn't add anything to the RFG case or to to the case S1 is trying to make against TC.

It just makes him look like someone with a vendetta against TC. This is almost to the point of saying, **TC is bad because he's prosecuting corrupt politicians.**:punch:

We, S1, you, don't seem to have a theory of how any of this relates to RFG. :punch:

We have a candidate in TC who's done virtually nothing in the RFG case versus a candidate JM who's said virtually nothing in the RFG case, a case that, frankly, most voters don't care about.

[Serendipitous1]

A senior deputy AG filed a federal lawsuit against TC and other officials, charging that he was denied a promised promotion because he tried to blow the whistle on what he alleged was illegal activity which may have cost taxpayers millions of dollars over the years.

http://www.ldnews.com/news/ci_10167880

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
A senior deputy AG filed a federal lawsuit against TC and other officials, charging that he was denied a promised promotion because he tried to blow the whistle on what he alleged was illegal activity which may have cost taxpayers millions of dollars over the years.

http://www.ldnews.com/news/ci_10167880 [/*]

Probably not illegal, and definitely not related to RFG (Kimmett started working for the office in 2006), but at least something.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila


Probably not illegal, and definitely not related to RFG (Kimmett started working for the office in 2006), but at least something. [/*]

Sounds quite illegal to me. I know someone being harrassed by a company like that, for the state, and the fees they are charging are horrendous!! And why should the state be getting outsiders to collect state fees anyways? What is wrong with the financial dept of the state government?

I am really getting sick of hearing TC's "mouth's" telling everyone there is nothing wrong, nothing going on or nothing illegal about it, no matter what is said about his office.

I am sick of paying huge taxes and people working for the government screwing the tax payers out of money, giving it to their family and friends and TC letting it go. Have they started looking into the Democrates and the Republicans yet? Both parties!!!

I also think forgiving all the doctor's, certain students the price of their education is the numbest thing they could do. Why should they make hundred's of thousands of dollars and not pay back their debt to the government, when other students are made to pay it back. It pi$$e$ me off!!

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by sherrijean981


Sounds quite illegal to me.


And what law would be broken?

They may be expensive, but being expensive isn't illegal.

In any event, it's a civil suit, not a criminal action.

It also doesn't involve RFG.

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila
Probably not illegal, and definitely not related to RFG (Kimmett started working for the office in 2006), but at least something. Interesting that you seem eager to reject accusations from a senior deputy AG about an alleged illegal activity which has possibly gone on for a number of years, and one which TC failed to address when brought to his attention...other than perhaps "shooting the messenger". But, as to this (or any other beef on the growing anti-TC list) being related to RG - it most definitely is...within the context of this thread, the premise of which is clear enough.

The RG investigation was mishandled. The state AG should have personally weighed in at the beginning...and should have jumped in with both feet by the end of April '05. Instead TC deliberately turned his back on the matter, from the beginning and for a reason or reasons which I have not nearly finished exploring.

Re-electing TC is not acceptable (to me). Therefore, anything which casts him in a bad light has the potential to help RG's case - that is the connection. What I will give you, to this point in time though, is that I would rather vote for JM than vote against TC; meaning that, other than via certain private assurances, we do not know that JM will actually try to make a difference in this matter (something that TC has not and will not do). But I believe JM will eventually weigh in publicly...as he has said he would.

I started this thread back in April, after 3 years of no results, and with no expectation that MM or the BPD would ever get beyond a wall they helped to build against solving this mystery. But I have no delusions about the political reach of this forum. OTOH, just posting the names, Tom Corbett, John Morganelli and Ray Gricar could draw the attention of someone with a tad more clout than this motley crew (including myself) could ever hope to muster.

Meat - Lawyer friends sit at a table, in a park, in a town from where RG seemingly just disappeared, questioning (for the umpteenth time), where is the AG in this?...a definite no-no in lawyer circles. Meanwhile, 'crimebuster TC' dons a hairnet and tours a potato factory. Does not make sense, does it? Or...does it?

[Cloudbuster]

I'll tell what makes some sense to me. It seemed like RG didn't plan on wanting to stay in his position as for him (RG) it meant he would have to continue through with working with TC on all the rising drug cases. Did RG want that? IMO NOWAY. RG's decision was set to retire at a early age.????hmm I wonder if TC's position and how it affected RG was a contributing reason RG set out to retire at a reasonable early age.

Weirdly the HW didn't seem to want to work for the AG office either. Was her new job a promotion or a step down? If a step down could it be she didn't care either but wanted out of the AG office???hmmm

He left and she left. Problem is she is accounted for but RG is not. So question is what rule did TC play into all of that?:patriot:

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
Interesting that you seem eager to reject accusations from a senior deputy AG about an alleged illegal activity which has possibly gone on for a number of years, and one which TC failed to address when brought to his attention...other than perhaps "shooting the messenger". But, as to this (or any other beef on the growing anti-TC list) being related to RG - it most definitely is...within the context of this thread, the premise of which is clear enough.


No, I am impressed that TC was in office for approximately 85 days when RFG disappeared. I am also aware that the "senior deputy AG" wasn't employed with the AG's office when RFG disappeared and that a "senior deputy AG" would probably turn to law enforcement prior to filing a civil suit.


The RG investigation was mishandled.


I agree, but what does this have to do with that?


Re-electing TC is not acceptable (to me). Therefore, anything which casts him in a bad light has the potential to help RG's case - that is the connection.


What you are now doing is similar to the "poisoning" that you've accused PE/Lustor of doing in regard to PEF. You are trying to tie a situation with a guy who wasn't employed with the AG's office until at least months after RFG disappeared with some reason for the AG acting as he his.


I started this thread back in April, after 3 years of no results, and with no expectation that MM or the BPD would ever get beyond a wall they helped to build against solving this mystery. But I have no delusions about the political reach of this forum. OTOH, just posting the names, Tom Corbett, John Morganelli and Ray Gricar could draw the attention of someone with a tad more clout than this motley crew (including myself) could ever hope to muster.


S1, the political reach of this forum ends when posters begin to grasp at straws, to make connections where none exists. That was JKA's mistake.


Meat - Lawyer friends sit at a table, in a park, in a town from where RG seemingly just disappeared, questioning (for the umpteenth time), where is the AG in this?...a definite no-no in lawyer circles. Meanwhile, 'crimebuster TC' dons a hairnet and tours a potato factory. Does not make sense, does it? Or...does it? [/*]

Of course it makes sense, when the AG hasn't been asked to come in and there no pressure from him from the local people. You own signature alludes to it.

There is a problem with the conduct of the investigation, but it's not in Harrisburg. It's in Bellefonte and Lewisburg.

[Cloudbuster]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster
I'll tell what makes some sense to me. It seemed like RG didn't plan on wanting to stay in his position as for him (RG) it meant he would have to continue through with working with TC on all the rising drug cases. Did RG want that? IMO NOWAY. RG's decision was set to retire at a early age.????hmm I wonder if TC's position and how it affected RG was a contributing reason RG set out to retire at a reasonable early age.

Weirdly the HW didn't seem to want to work for the AG office either. Was her new job a promotion or a step down? If a step down could it be she didn't care either but wanted out of the AG office???hmmm

He left and she left. Problem is she is accounted for but RG is not. So question is what rule did TC play into all of that?:patriot: [/*]

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster
I wonder if TC's position and how it affected RG was a contributing reason RG set out to retire at a reasonable early age.


RFG announced his retirement about 9-10 months prior to the election, which was extremely close and in which TC had a reasonably tough primary challenge. There was no way he could have known who the next AG would be (even the AP called the wrong results).

I don't recall any mention of where the HW worked.

[Cloudbuster]

JJ I think RG knew --Ray was intelligent I think he had his own opinion about TC getting in. I think that furated him. Preate goes to jail--that's a person Ray endorsed and Preate himself said he was politically set up. Ray most likely agreed. Therefore leaving the runway open for TC as a fill in. To me anyone can tell there was something to that politics. lol

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster
JJ I think RG knew --Ray was intelligent I think he had his own opinion about TC getting in.


Whether or not he had a low opinion of TC, TC was not the favorite at the time, even to win the GOP primary. Bruce Castor was. Whomever was nominated, the Democratic candidate, who almost won, was Eisenhower, who'd had a good showing in 2000. He couldn't have known on the day before the election, much less in early 2004. Even AP declared Eisenhower had won. That's nonsense.


I think that furated him. Preate goes to jail--that's a person Ray endorsed and Preate himself said he was politically set up.

Preate pleaded guilty; he admitted it.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila


And what law would be broken?

They may be expensive, but being expensive isn't illegal.

In any event, it's a civil suit, not a criminal action.

It also doesn't involve RFG. [/*]

First off I didn't say anything in that post had to do with RFG.

TC should be fining the mortgage company the same as he did others who made calls to Do Not Call lists. They had to pay so much for each call, as far away as FL.

He is going after this company in a civil suit? I thought civil suits were under $5000? or is that just to a Justice of the Peace for taxpaying citizens? And if he has the right to make a complaint against an out of state company I would say his Deputy AG has every right in the world to make waves on illegal activity in the state government.

Why should an outside company make a tax paying citizen pay huge fees on top of what they owe & their late charges? Why is our own state offices not collecting those fees themselves, with one of the hundreds of employees sitting on their duffs or taking long leaves of absence to campaign for the AG? Obviously there is a lot of waste in those offices if the AG is going after one of the political parties members. I think major changes need to be made in the offices of the state government and the AG's office!

Stop tearing apart everything everyone says, JJ.
I swear you sound more like one of TC's "mouth's" every time someone posts something. "We are all wrong, TC is not, you are not, and it doesn't have to do with RFG. Don't go here and don't go there. "

[Cloudbuster]

In Harrisburg the Attorney General’s Office, headed first by Ernest Preate, then Thomas Corbett, and now Michael Fisher, have all assisted in this obstruction of justice by fighting the Private Criminal Complaint put forth by Smith and Buckley and have not pursued the true perpetrator(s) of the crime. The Supreme Court of Pennsylvania in a tie vote has not overturned the lower courts and in doing so has upheld the decision of the Superior Court and ordered that Michael Brown be arrested and tried for perjury and obstruction of justice.

Along with that, the Office of Attorney General has wasted over $300,000 in a convoluted, contrived, and a vendetta contrary to written and case law against this writer. It is a clear effort to destroy my credibility and even today they proceed with criminal charges over procedural errors during a political campaign in 1995. The total amount in question is the enormous sum of $370, all documented as being received and verified as being spent on legal campaign expenses. The problem is the proper form allegedly was not completed. That is the price of standing up for what is right and demanding our elected leaders and police do their jobs and not frame an innocent man.

How many innocent people are in jail because of lies and fabricated evidence? How many other people, like myself, must take the harassment of the Attorney General of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania because I have had the courage to demand that corrupt officials be sanctioned for their parts in trying to murder an innocent man?

Michael Fisher, people can call you "General" but we all know that you were never even a private. Quit being a political hack using your office to put forth grudges held by the Republican Party. You will never be the Governor of this state because you are now exposing how incompetent you really are. Solve the Kathy Wilson Murder! Use the evidence you have available and get the job done. Nothing else really matters.

http://www.mlrmag.com/sections/k_wilson/k_wilson_remembered.html

[Cloudbuster]

Tom Corbett, the state attorney general, cast the decisive vote.

"He shot her with a pump-action shotgun, three times," Mr. Corbett said. "This was a cold-blooded killing."



A few days before the hearing, Mr. Corbett, the state attorney general, met with Mr. Thompson.

"I walked out of the room thinking and feeling that he was going to say yes," Mr. Thompson later said. "He was not coldhearted. He wasn't drilling me. He gets to the point. He's a decent man."

But in the end, that visit, Mr. Goodwin's pleas and Mr. Chubb's offer were not enough to sway Mr. Corbett, the one dissenting vote on the five-member parole board.

"I am not prepared," Mr. Corbett said, "at this time to vote in the affirmative."

John F. Cowley, the district attorney in Tioga County, where the killing took place, agreed that Mr. Thompson should never be free.

"At the end of the day, in Pennsylvania life means life," Mr. Cowley said. "I come down on the side - not firmly - but I come down on the side that there should be no pardon. It's a tough case. The only reason is the age at the time of the crime. Everything else is way beyond ugly."

http://www.capps-mi.org/material%20to%20put%20up/To%20More%20Inmates,%20Life%20Term%20Means%20Dying %20Behind%20Bars%20-%20New%20York%20Times.htm


Seems to me TC was for life sentences and possibly opposed to death Penalty cases? Wonder if we can find out more? Sad story this is because this guy was only 15 at the time he committed the crime. Worth the read. TC is a cold hearted person for this one!!!:cuss: It seems only criminal convictions are his ticket to look good in the public eye. Sorry some cases deserve MERCY and this is one of them cases.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by sherrijean981


First off I didn't say anything in that post had to do with RFG.



Well, that is the general subject I'm interested in. Not how badly the AG does other things.


He is going after this company in a civil suit? I thought civil suits were under $5000? or is that just to a Justice of the Peace for taxpaying citizens?


A civil suit beans a basic lawsuit, not a claim directly that someone committed a crime, but that someone did something wrong. And it can be millions of dollars. I'm actually party to one, but I don't expect millions.


Stop tearing apart everything everyone says, JJ.
I swear you sound more like one of TC's "mouth's" every time someone posts something. "We are all wrong, TC is not, you are not, and it doesn't have to do with RFG. Don't go here and don't go there. " [/*]

I think there is a lot to be critical of with how TC has conducted himself in regard to the RFG case. The stuff that's being posted has no connection to the RFG case, and the main criticism isn't at Harrisburg. The people that could dump this case right in TC's lap have refused to do so. The people that have the ability to user investigating toles MM and Johnson, and could do so no matter what TC says, have not done so.

So, instead of asking why, we are insisting on coming up with reasons, frankly not very good ones, to be critical of TC.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster

http://www.mlrmag.com/sections/k_wilson/k_wilson_remembered.html [/*]

While, because somebody says it on the Internet, it must be true.

Okay we've just crossed into the Bidlesburg Group/ Skull and Bones/Jesuit/Freemason/Trilateral Commission/CIA/Bohemian Grove/Grey Alien, Conspiracy Zone.

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
Gricar said he would not endorse a candidate for any other office. "There's only one office where I believe my experience is important to the public," Gricar said. "I have an obligation to the public to state who I think would make a better attorney general."
(Preate, 1988, http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/1988/10/10-20-88tdc/10-20-88dnews-06.asp )

AG Preate says top Centre County prosecutor Ray Gricar is grossly underpaid, weakening law and drug enforcement efforts. "Here we are in a first-rate county, treating the D.A. like he's a second-class citizen."
http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/1990/04/04-09-90tdc/04-09-90dnews-03.asp

AG Preate proposed establishing a Centre County Drug Task Force whose sole purpose would be to target narcotics traffickers in the county.
http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/1991/04/04-09-91tdc/04-09-91dnews-02.asp

Centre County DA Ray Gricar also announced his "total, wholehearted and enthusiastic" support for [Preate's re-election]. "I'm very impressed by his record," Gricar said.
http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/1992/10/10-19-92tdc/10-19-92dnews-5.asp

Seven years after former AG Preate launched a statewide campaign against drug pushers, his successor [TOM CORBETT] declared it an expensive failure. And Ray Gricar was forced to scrap plans to form a regional drug task force when it appeared Preate was in legal trouble. "We didn't want to get involved at that point,'' Gricar said. (CDT, 09/17/96). The point of my original post was not Preate. It was what could have been the beginning of bad blood between RG and TC. Anyway, I wanted to add that it was not until 1999, under AG Fisher, that the Centre County Drug Task Force, which continues to be a potent weapon against drug trafficking, was finally established.
http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/1999/04/04-13-99tdc/04-13-99dnews-9.asp

And the Centre County group also then joined with similar groups in Clearfield and Blair counties to form the state's Region IV West Task Force (CDT, 4/13/99).

[Serendipitous1]

Morganelli on Corbett's Bonusgate publicity: 'Part of the game'.
JM says he will get his message out in Sep and Oct when the campaign heats up.
http://www.politickerpa.com/danh/1209/morganelli-corbetts-bonusgate-publicity-part-game

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
The point of my original post was not Preate. It was what could have been the beginning of bad blood between RG and TC. Anyway, I wanted to add that it was not until 1999, under AG Fisher, that the Centre County Drug Task Force, which continues to be a potent weapon against drug trafficking, was finally established.
http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/1999/04/04-13-99tdc/04-13-99dnews-9.asp

And the Centre County group also then joined with similar groups in Clearfield and Blair counties to form the state's Region IV West Task Force (CDT, 4/13/99). [/*]

S1, Fisher was elected in 1996 and started serving in 1997. TC was AG for very short time in the 1990's, less than 16 months. RFG, from what you just quoted, backed off because of Preate's legal problems, which really became prevalent during 1994-5; TC wasn't involved in that, either as a defendant or a prosecutor.

Again, yes, there may have been "bad blood" between TC and RFG, but I have not found anything that is related. If RFG had a major problem, he could done something during the campaign. I couldn't find anything.

[Serendipitous1]

TC invested time and money in 2005 to get MM in place. But that was when Centre was a Republican county. Now, not only is it a decidedly Democratic County, but TC's public indifference to Ray Gricar's plight will come back to bite him. MM will not be able to deliver Centre County come November. And I would not be surprised to see other central counties also go blue on this issue alone.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
TC invested time and money in 2005 to get MM in place. But that was when Centre was a Republican county. Now, not only is it a decidedly Democratic County, but TC's public indifference to Ray Gricar's plight will come back to bite him. MM will not be able to deliver Centre County come November. And I would not be surprised to see other central counties also go blue on this issue alone. [/*]

First, I would never have said that MM, or RFG, were in a position to deliver Centre County.

Second, Centre County has been slowly drifting to the Democrats since 2000, at least.

Third, judging from the public outcry, extremely little, this might not even be an issue in MM's next bid, much less TC's.

TC gets reelected, probably by a greater margin than the last time, and possibly, by a greater margin than the presidential victor in PA.

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila
First, I would never have said that MM, or RFG, were in a position to deliver Centre County.

Second, Centre County has been slowly drifting to the Democrats since 2000, at least.

Third, judging from the public outcry, extremely little, this might not even be an issue in MM's next bid, much less TC's.

TC gets reelected, probably by a greater margin than the last time, and possibly, by a greater margin than the presidential victor in PA. For sale: antique bridge in Philadelphia. Best offer. Must sell by November. If interested, call 555-XXXX.

Centre County, state AG election results:
1996: Rep Mike Fisher - 26,235, Dem Joe Kohn - 17,533.
2000: Rep Mike Fisher - 29,282, Dem Jim Eisenhower - 15,285.
2004: Rep Tom Corbett - 32,214, Dem Jim Eisenhower - 27,282.
http://www.co.centre.pa.us/elections/results/results.asp

Centre County voter count:
1/07/08: Rep - 36600, Dem - 31699, Other - 14,368.
4/15/08: Rep - 36992, Dem - 39997, Other - 13,346.
8/12/08: Rep - 37085, Dem - 40558, Other - 14,328.
http://www.co.centre.pa.us/elections/report.asp

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
For sale: antique bridge in Philadelphia. Best offer. Must sell by November. If interested, call 555-XXXX.

Centre County, state AG election results:
1996: Rep Mike Fisher - 26,235, Dem Joe Kohn - 17,533.
2000: Rep Mike Fisher - 29,282, Dem Jim Eisenhower - 15,285.
2004: Rep Tom Corbett - 32,214, Dem Jim Eisenhower - 27,282.
http://www.co.centre.pa.us/elections/results/results.asp


And? You'll note that Eisenhower, running for the second time, dramatically improved in 2004; RFG didn't have anything to with that.


Centre County voter count:
1/07/08: Rep - 36600, Dem - 31699, Other - 14,368.
4/15/08: Rep - 36992, Dem - 39997, Other - 13,346.
8/12/08: Rep - 37085, Dem - 40558, Other - 14,328.
http://www.co.centre.pa.us/elections/report.asp

Wow, you have a lot of people registering, most of them registering to vote in the contested Democratic Primary, for Obama, and a sizable number of the college students, something like 20% won't be there on election day.

Most of JM's campaign, other than attacking TC, is about illegal aliens, which isn't a major issue and might be a slight negative in Centre County.

Expect TC to be reelected, by a larger margin than before; he won by 2.1%. Expect the RFG case to play virtually no role in this election.

[Cloudbuster]

Maybe the real problem was with the MW and TC and it involved RG. Just a thought.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster
Maybe the real problem was with the MW and TC and it involved RG. Just a thought. [/*]

Except, we don't have a dead/missing/seemingly threatened MW.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks

The move on 'bonusgate'.....Democratic party only by AG, with press leak occuring in January 2007, a full year and a half before the 'guilty' are paraded in handcuffs...... obviously was saved for a last minute campaign 'sucker punch' but those I talk with see it for exactly what it is........campaigning of the lowest kind. That move coupled with the destruction of the Republican's hard drives the summer of 2007 doesn't go unnoticed by PA voters.



The thing was, that they started an investigation based on the news report, not the other way around. It wasn't a "leak." That's what prompted the investigation, according to TC.

As to the drives, the investigation was ongoing, but the initial reports put it in the House Democratic Caucus (which is why the Senate Democratic Caucus hasn't taken a hit yet).

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by logicworks



Did you happen to see this in the news? Very sad.......

http://news.aol.com/article/gunman-kills-state-party-chairman/132098?icid=200100397x1207450276x1200415882
JMO [/*]

Did you notice this article with a link on the same page?

Programs on Shaken Baby Syndrom
http://news.aol.com/health/article/programs-target-shaken-baby-syndrome/94545

[J. J. in Phila]

The Harrisburg Patriot-News broke the story on 1/27/07, and that's what led TC to start the investigation.

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/uploadedFiles/Press/Harrisburg-Bonus-GJ-Presentment.pdf

I thought it was rather funny that he'd start an investigation based on a newspaper story.

[Cloudbuster]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila


Except, we don't have a dead/missing/seemingly threatened MW. [/*]

JJ I didn't say who's side she was on. That answers why we might not have a dead/missing/threatened MW.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster


JJ I didn't say who's side she was on. That answers why we might not have a dead/missing/threatened MW. [/*]

Okay, your idea is now that MW and TC killed RFG in a parking lot?

[Cloudbuster]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila


Okay, your idea is now that MW and TC killed RFG in a parking lot? [/*]

I NEVER EVER said that JJ.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster


I NEVER EVER said that JJ. [/*]

Hence the question mark. What are you saying?

[Serendipitous1]

Passage to "Revelation Range" has for too long been denied by the Bellefonte Police Department, Mike Madeira and Tom Corbett. It is time to put that nightmare to an end. I believe the proverbial sh_t will hit the fan soon, meaning within the next 2-1/2 months...and meaning "it" will be about TC and RG. And I believe "it", more than any other issue (and there are many) will, once and for all, end TC's miserable political career.

I do not care what reason voters have to elect JM, as long as they do. The only question I have is will that, alone, finally set into motion, solving the mystery of RG's disappearance?

[Serendipitous1]

Tom Corbett's only personal, public entreaty with respect to Ray Gricar's disappearance was that it was not looking good because his keys were missing. WTH? He did not say 'suicide' or 'foul play' or 'walk away'. But it seemed to not matter, since he was, at the time, really interested only in Gricar's replacement. This is the chief state law enforcement officer saying, I do not really care what happened to Ray Gricar...that is for others to figure out...I am only here to endorse MM as the next Centre County DA.

And MM has refused...despite proof positive of the lack of resources to investigate the case and the potential conflict of interest which, to this day, exists in the DA's office...to formally request the AG's office to investiagte.

That is where we have been. That is where we are. But "that" could change dramatically,in coming months. The question is, Will it?

[Serendipitous1]

Marakay Rogers is Pennsylvania's alternative (Libertarian Party) candidate for AG
http://www.rogersforattorneygeneral.com/

Rogers got 70,624 votes when she ran in 2004 as the Green Party candidate for AG.
http://www.gp.org/elections/candidates/

In 2006 she was the Green Party's choice for Governor, but withdrew her petition rather than incurring the legal expenses that would have been required to defend against a signature-by-signature challenge from the Democratic Party's staff lawyers.
http://www.gp.org/press/pr_2006_10_09.shtml

Sounds familiar...as in "Bonusgate".

In 2004, Corbett beat Eisenhower by 108,791 votes.
http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/state.php?year=2004&off=9&elect=0&fips=42&f=0

So Rogers did not appear to affect that outcome. Still, her appearance on the ballot could diminish this year's vote for JM.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks



What is the difference between a 'leak' and a letter showing up at the newsroom that someone wanted in the news? According to Wikipedia.....


It wasn't "leaked" from the AG's office. The AG's office had nothing to do with the timing. You really cannot blame or credit Corbett for the timing. The story could have been reported six months later.

It took them 18 months from the first report to the handing down of indictments. That is not uncommon.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks



Eighteen MONTHS? TLee was arrested mid-January and on March 31st, 2.5 months later, Corbett was here to toot the horn for MM's great 'bust', and to alert all of Centre County before the primary. (Same show, different year.)

Some think timing is everything. I think character is......
JMO [/*]

IIRC, that was a two year investigation. I am familiar with one other grand jury indictment. The incident was reported in January 2006, the report was issued Febuary/March of 2007; it was no where nearly as complex as Bonusgate.

[Serendipitous1]

Well, now that the Stu Bykofsky Candidates Comedy Night went totally unnoticed (except by Stu of course: http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/20080821_Stu_Bykofsky__At_Bykofsky_Candidates_Come dy_Night__Jokes__digs__gasps_and_a_Barr_mitzvah.ht ml ), let the campaign begin. Reminder to JM: US-22 to Harrisburg and State College. Further reminder:

[Serendipitous1]

If Corbett calls Morganelli a "great Monday morning quarterback", would that not also mean that Corbett admits to being a 'weekend loser'?
http://www.politickerpa.com/alexroarty/1273/corbett-fires-back-rendell-morganelli

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
If Corbett calls Morganelli a "great Monday morning quarterback", would that not also mean that Corbett admits to being a 'weekend loser'?
http://www.politickerpa.com/alexroarty/1273/corbett-fires-back-rendell-morganelli [/*]

Apparently Morganelli's attacks are so troubling to TC that he's taking a vacation.

Morganelli's statewide track record is not particularly good; he lost the primary to Eisenhower the last time.

And still no word on RFG.

[Serendipitous1]

TC is a political suck-up. I trust he will return from St. Paul with nothing more than a severe case of brown-nose.
http://www.politickerpa.com/danh/1351/talk-2010-gov-senate-races-sure-be-topic-conventions

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1
TC is a political suck-up. I trust he will return from St. Paul with nothing more than a severe case of brown-nose.
http://www.politickerpa.com/danh/1351/talk-2010-gov-senate-races-sure-be-topic-conventions [/*]

One thing that I learned a very long time ago, conventions and inaugurals are places where the campaign starts. Where there isn't anything to really be contested, this is where deals are done.

The question is going be if Patrick Meehan and Lynn Swann show up.

And, to refocus on the RFG case, 45 days ago Morganelli told a reporter he'd speak out on the RFG case. Still silent.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by logicworks


The first is, just as in the RG case, there is an absolute conflict of interest in Bonusgate and a definite need for an independent prosecutor.



Bonusgate is not "his own." and they do have a grand jury.





Second is changing the AG position to 'one term only'. Morganelli moves it from two- four year terms to one-six year term.



He can't do that, because it's in the state constitution; A AG cannot amend the state constitution.


The third is in drawing attention to the DeNaple connection, which will not go away as long as TC insists on holding onto the 'large' campaign contribution.


And that attention is being overshadowed by Bonusgate.

And still no comment about RFG.

[Serendipitous1]

Fug us once Corbett, et al....shame on you. Fug us again (and again, and again)...shame on us.
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/dailycourier/news/s_584960.html
http://www.citizensvoice.com/articles/2008/08/26/news/wb_voice.20080826.t.pg17.cv26cdag_s1.1903226_loc.t xt

Meanwhile, Corbett's goon squad is busy checking on Morganelli's "felonious" abuse of parking privilege. Good call Tom!
http://www.ldnews.com/news/ci_10307418

"I hear the train a-comin'. It's rollin' 'round the bend."

[Serendipitous1]

I watched (olympics withdrawl) Corbett...and Morganelli (while his 2-hour parking meter apparently expired outside) on PCN last night. Corbett took his coat and tie off, so he could speak down to farmers. Morganelli wore his coat and tie, so he could speak up to Corbett's conflicts of interest in office.

Ya know, that and today's news coverage stirred me to action. If the Harrisburg city council wants 6 bucks for Morganelli's parking, let me know...I got at least that much entertainment, just from watching the tube and reading the "news".

[Serendipitous1]

Is it not amazing...Google News records 65 hits in the last 8 hours on Morganelli's failure to feed a parking meter...albeit with his "official business" pass visible through the windshield. And Brian [Mc]Nutt demands that Morganelli fork over the 6 bucks he figures is due to the city of Harrisburg. Makes one wonder what [Mc]Nutt does in his "spare time"...on the public dime!

A representative of the Commonwealth mysteriously disappeared...April 2005...and [Mc]Nutt, and therefore Corbett, is looking for a metermaid? Are you people serious?

[Serendipitous1]

Oh, OK, I forgot...you are not looking at all. That is the deal you guys worked out with MM. Sorry. Good luck with the metermaid then.

Good gravy! I will send Morganelli a role of quarters...if and when he mentions Ray Gricar.

[Serendipitous1]

Too late to edit. Make that a "roll" of quarters. I did not mean to bring George Washington (may he rest in peace) into the fray. . . . . . . :D

[Cloudbuster]

TC is being PETTY and a whinny crybaby!!!! If thats all he can get against Morganelli than Im sold on Morganelli. Now let us compare TC's record and the 35 thousand dollars hmmm ching ching ching that's a far cry from a 6 dollar bill.


TC $35,000<--------------->Morganelli $6
Who are you sold on?:hat:

[Serendipitous1]

Personally, I will forever think of TC in a hairnet, cloak and booties...touring a potato factory the same day Buehner was lambasting him and his sidekick, MM.

[Serendipitous1]

Traditionally, fall election campaigns begin on Labor Day.
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=20100989&BRD=1282&PAG=461&dept_id=182121&rfi=6

Some Thoughts On The AG's Race.
http://blogs.mcall.com/capitol_ideas/2008/09/some-thoughts-o.html

Micek might not qualify as an investigative reporter...or a deep thinker, for that matter. But he does have a flair (or flare) for the obvious. And I hope that will come out in the lack-lustre race for PA's row offices.

[sherrijean981]

I just received a phone call, paid for by US A J PAX, to make a phone call to Attorney General Tom Corbett to return the $50,000 that he received from DeNable, who is being prosectued for fraud.

Too bad no phone number was given. I tried to call the number back and got a voice that said the number has been disconnected or not available as dialed. ODD!! It was from Virginia.

[Cloudbuster]

Originally posted by sherrijean981
I just received a phone call, paid for by US A J PAX, to make a phone call to Attorney General Tom Corbett to return the $50,000 that he received from DeNable, who is being prosectued for fraud.

Too bad no phone number was given. I tried to call the number back and got a voice that said the number has been disconnected or not available as dialed. ODD!! It was from Virginia. [/*]

SJ I agree it is odd especially since the call orginates from Virginia. I had a call with a silent message on waste management and now you get one about TC? Hmmm see I think something is going on. :rose:

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by sherrijean981
I just received a phone call, paid for by US A J PAX, to make a phone call to Attorney General Tom Corbett to return the $50,000 that he received from DeNable, who is being prosectued for fraud.

Too bad no phone number was given. I tried to call the number back and got a voice that said the number has been disconnected or not available as dialed. ODD!! It was from Virginia. [/*]

Robo-call. I've them Bush, Clinton, Rendell, and McCain, Monday.

[sherrijean981]

I meant there was no number listed to call Corbett and I used my caller ID and called back the number from which the phone call came from. I find it odd they called me from that number yet I couldn't get through to it.

I know I have received a lot of calls from the Republican committee in the last couple weeks, including McClain the other day. I guess they don't get the list of people who have changed parties, do they?

[sherrijean981]

Where is everyone tonight?

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by sherrijean981
Where is everyone tonight? [/*]

Watching Sarah Palin. :)

[Politigal]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila


Watching Sarah Palin. :) [/*]

listening to the lies eh

barf

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Politigal


listening to the lies eh



No, watching the Democrats being trounced, again.

[Serendipitous1]

Well, I was glued to C-Span myself last night. It is amazing how much more informative and enjoyable political conventions are to watch, free from commercials and and the annoying commentary from the ankle-biters. I even saw TC yuking it up with the PA delegation.

Speaking of politics, I do not know now quite what to make of Morganelli, who has announced that Carbon County DA Dobias has endorsed him. I understand democrats sticking together and all that. But, as president of the PDAA, Dobias led the counter-assault against Buehner just 2 months ago...when Morganelli also said he would address the Gricar issue in depth.

It seems to me that Morganelli is now going to be conflicted, if in fact he ever does candidly address the Gricar issue "in depth". At least it would certainly seem that Morganelli will not now go down nearly the same path as did Buehner...which, to me, would be unfortunate in that it would skirt the real problem with the investigation in hand. Still, if he promises to initiate a state investigation, that will seal the deal with many voters on this issue alone.

[Cloudbuster]

Originally posted by Politigal


listening to the lies eh

barf [/*]
Oh Politigal how I agree with you on the lies. i think it's all the same old same old. I think they should be more concerned about upcoming issues with Russia. See you can't go to a bears den and poke at a sleeping bear. When the bear wakes up your gona get nulled. They also need to look into the RG case.:)

Also I was watching the Caylee case on Nancy Grace and there was a guy on there that said a laptop no matter what you do to it even immerse in water it will still not get rid of your searches. Has anyone seen this? All searches can and will still exist.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by Politigal


listening to the lies eh

barf [/*]

I was watching the Republican Convention tonight, too. I don't know where the lies were but it was an interesting speech. First I have ever listened to him.

I have a better feeling about Senator McCain and Sara Palin now that I have heard their speeches.

What lies did you hear?

[puzzled]

Speaking of laptop. Has anyone heard whether or not MM did send the laptop/harddrive to that other place yet? If so have they retrieved any data from it? SJ do you still want me to send the photo's to you so you can post them for firefly? Also will you be able to send them back to me?:D
Have a great weekend everyone!

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by puzzled
Speaking of laptop. Has anyone heard whether or not MM did send the laptop/harddrive to that other place yet? If so have they retrieved any data from it? SJ do you still want me to send the photo's to you so you can post them for firefly? Also will you be able to send them back to me?:D
Have a great weekend everyone! [/*]

He sent it and Kroll was working on it, which means that it was not hopeless.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by puzzled
Speaking of laptop. Has anyone heard whether or not MM did send the laptop/harddrive to that other place yet? If so have they retrieved any data from it? SJ do you still want me to send the photo's to you so you can post them for firefly? Also will you be able to send them back to me?:D
Have a great weekend everyone! [/*]

Thanks, but I was able to send one to Cloudbuster and she got one to Firefly. Won't be needed now.

Have a nice weekend at your end too.

[puzzled]

Thanks SJ and JJ I greatly appreciate the info! I will keep my fingers crossed and hope and pray that they are able to glean some helpful information from it! We really need a break!
Go Bucks!:cool:

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by Serendipitous1 <Bump>
Well, I was glued to C-Span myself last night. It is amazing how much more informative and enjoyable political conventions are to watch, free from commercials and and the annoying commentary from the ankle-biters. I even saw TC yuking it up with the PA delegation.

Speaking of politics, I do not know now quite what to make of Morganelli, who has announced that Carbon County DA Dobias has endorsed him. I understand democrats sticking together and all that. But, as president of the PDAA, Dobias led the counter-assault against Buehner just 2 months ago...when Morganelli also said he would address the Gricar issue in depth.

It seems to me that Morganelli is now going to be conflicted, if in fact he ever does candidly address the Gricar issue "in depth". At least it would certainly seem that Morganelli will not now go down nearly the same path as did Buehner...which, to me, would be unfortunate in that it would skirt the real problem with the investigation in hand. Still, if he promises to initiate a state investigation, that will seal the deal with many voters on this issue alone.

[Cloudbuster]

Politics may be the oldest profession but the outcome is always the same.....CB

[sherrijean981]

Attorney General Tom Corbette was on TV yesterday about the next part of the Legislative investigation and arrests, but has decided to wait until after the election to bring it to the public.

I went to the AG home page but nothing was listed about that part at all but I did find the July newsletter:

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/press.aspx?id=3771

Went back and found it on a TV site!

http://wfmz.com/view/?id=393772

[J. J. in Phila]

It's been roughly 60 days since Morganelli told PB that he'd be addressing RFG case in depth.

[Cloudbuster]

Wonder what happened? Maybe someone persuaded him not to? But it isn't over till the fat lady sings. Maybe he has something planned that we just don't know about.:)

[J. J. in Phila]

Wonder what happened? Maybe someone persuaded him not to? But it isn't over till the fat lady sings. Maybe he has something planned that we just don't know about.:)

He tells people what he thinks they want to hear.

He probably decided it was a weak issue and just quietly dropped it.

[Serendipitous1]

This new format still has some quirky things going on. But it seems a bit better now.

Morganelli wants 6 televised debates, one in each of the state’s media markets. [Mc]Nutt thinks at least 2 are likely.
http://www.dailyitem.com/panews/local_story_257030823.html

Let me guess...Pittsburgh and Philadelphia...avoiding the T-voters' media markets...mistake, mistake. Anyway, if any of you get wind of where these debates will be held, please let the rest of us know. I would like to personally suggest that the moderators pose a simple question of character. Maybe there will even be a call-in or e-mail feature.

[Serendipitous1]

By his own timetable, Corbett has 15 days to file charges against Republican legislators/staffers...or kiss this election (and his chance to run for Governor) goodbye. As if the Democratic cult-like wave is not scary enough, Pennsylvania Republicans...clinging to their religion and guns, as it were...know how to split their vote.

So tell us Mr. Corbett. Which Republican legislators/staffers are you going to throw under the bus...to further your own political career? Or, as in the Gricar case, are you going to leave the heavy lifting to others, like the Dauphin County DA...and John Morganelli?

[sherrijean981]

By his own timetable, Corbett has 15 days to file charges against Republican legislators/staffers...or kiss this election (and his chance to run for Governor) goodbye. As if the Democratic cult-like wave is not scary enough, Pennsylvania Republicans...clinging to their religion and guns, as it were...know how to split their vote.

So tell us Mr. Corbett. Which Republican legislators/staffers are you going to throw under the bus...to further your own political career? Or, as in the Gricar case, are you going to leave the heavy lifting to others, like the Dauphin County DA...and John Morganelli?


He was on TV and said he wasn't going to name names until after the election. Has that changed? And for what purpose would that be for? To get the Republican votes before he slams them with an arrest warrant?

[J. J. in Phila]

He was on TV and said he wasn't going to name names until after the election. Has that changed? And for what purpose would that be for? To get the Republican votes before he slams them with an arrest warrant?

To hurt the Democrats more so. Basically TC has made a name for himself with "Bonusgate." He's probably had the race won since July. :(

Now, he won't get my vote, for numerous reasons.

[Serendipitous1]

Attorney general candidate talks Gricar case, proposes cold case unit
By Sara Ganim
http://www.centredaily.com/news/breaking_news/story/844069.html

[gstickley]

Bless you, Mr. Morganelli!!!

(You might want to read Pete's Blog. Seems he is big fan of MM after all.)

Fool #2

[Serendipitous1]

And Morganelli said the first case he would assign to the Cold Case Unit would be the disappearance of Ray Gricar. He said Corbett hasn't provided enough leadership to help solve the case.

http://www.wqkx.com/1070_WKOK/WKOK_local_news.htm

[Serendipitous1]

Madeira drags his feet, crying "foul" [go figure], but did add that the hard drive is still being searched for information.

http://wearecentralpa.com/content/fulltext/?cid=29991

[J. J. in Phila]

It will be time to change the odds again, with this:



I wish I had kept count of courthouse workers or legal professionals who told me they believe he's out there somewhere. One of his better friends and longtime coworker, Centre County Assistant District Attorney Steve Sloane, said all along he thought Ray is alive and well out there somewhere. Steve's not alone, not by a longshot.


http://community.centredaily.com/?q=node/5851#comment-7497

You've all been wondering what those in proximity to RFG were saying. There it is.

[Serendipitous1]

Bless you, Mr. Morganelli!!!
(You might want to read Pete's Blog. Seems he is big fan of MM after all.)
Fool #2Yes...good for Morganelli, accompanied by Bob Buehner. It has never mattered as much to me what actually happened to Ray Gricar, as it does that whatever happened to him becomes known. Unlike PB however, a state investigation is precisely what this case has needed...from the get-go.

PB has never seemed to recognize the potential impact of RG's disappearance on the state's justice system, or the difference between a local LE ageny pursuing the investigation as opposed to a state investigation. He has always treated this case as a "local" incident. And his recent, rather abrasive, blog post only reinforces my belief that he (and therefore the public) are skewed into thinking "intentional disappearance"...because that is the theory where LE would be most forthcoming with information.

But is it the correct theory? PB has promised to share his ideas. I believe he should consider just how pernicious he is willing to be in regard to Ray Gricar's family (to include PF). Still, I welcome his input...even if it is just speculative. Speaking as one who was wholly disillusioned by his (now long departed) 'A's to 'Q's, PB's opinions have been long overdue.

[Serendipitous1]

It will be time to change the odds again, with this:
http://community.centredaily.com/?q=node/5851#comment-7497
You've all been wondering what those in proximity to RFG were saying. There it is.Well I wonder what the "séance" in the courtroom was all about then. But look at it this way...if RG disappeared himself, which agency is more capable of finding him? If he is out there, he can be found...but only if there is an aggresive investigation, following up on leads. Remember the Lewisburg MW?

[J. J. in Phila]

.

PB has never seemed to recognize the potential impact of RG's disappearance on the state's justice system, or the difference between a local LE ageny pursuing the investigation as opposed to a state investigation. He has always treated this case as a "local" incident. And his recent, rather abrasive, blog post only reinforces my belief that he (and therefore the public) are skewed into thinking "intentional disappearance"...because that is the theory where LE would be most forthcoming with information.


Sorry, I don't agree, and I think he's been a lot more willing to consider this as a murder than most of the rest of the press. Here he is reporting what RFG's friends/co-workers feel regarding the disappearance. This explains a lot of the current situation.

One of the terms I've heard about the case is, "There is no evidence of a crime." That, coupled with the belief, in some cases "from the start," that RFG walked away, explains the attitude of local LE.

Is that correct. Well, I raised the odds on walkaway a whole 1%. It still comes down to if RFG had the means to get out of Lewisburg, at least for me.

[J. J. in Phila]

Well I wonder what the "séance" in the courtroom was all about then. But look at it this way...if RG disappeared himself, which agency is more capable of finding him? If he is out there, he can be found...but only if there is an aggresive investigation, following up on leads. Remember the Lewisburg MW?


It's also not a police matter, if he did.

[Serendipitous1]

It's also not a police matter, if he did.You are wrong. It IS a matter of vital state interest. Even if he disappeared himself, which is not illegal, it is still necessary for the state to investigate the matter to its logical conclusion. Corbett has absolutely refused to do so, and his buddy Madeira has acceded to it. But Morganelli has proposed to change all of that. And that is good news for Pennsylvanians, no matter what shakes out.