Smiley Face Killers [murder connects dozens around country]

[gestalt]

Another reinvestigation:

http://capitalnews9.com/content/headlines/116718/mcnulty-thinks-szostak-case-deserves-second-look/Default.aspx

All previous stories are listed below article.

[margaritaville]

Originally posted by spirit07
Thanks for the link Tara. From the article...

"He was loaded into a vehicle, a van, driven around and eventually murdered," Jan Jenkins told CNN. "He was murdered and thrown away like a piece of trash."

I keep reading this about the van, but does anyone know how they obtained this evidence? [/*]


I will try and find the link to this...

But IIRC... There were feathers from his costume found in a parking garage and they traced him back to a van (maybe from cameras in the garage?)

I will keep looking for the link........

[gestalt]

I read something on WS. A report that drops of his blood were found and a red feather in a nearby parking garage. That's all I know.

[Knick]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,358901,00.html

They found the body of Nick Garza.

[spirit07]

Thanks both margaritaville and gestalt for the info on the van.

And, thanks Knick for the news. I'm glad they found Nick and the family has some closure. I thought I'd read earlier that there were a number of cases where they thought bodies would be found once Spring was well on it's way in the Midwest and NE.

[chick a saw]

Sinsinewa is the name of an early massacre of Indians. Could it be that now some organized group of Indians are massacring the sons of North American invaders? Is this a unrealized race war? Sorry, but the possibility of this just popped into my head based on admittedly scanty evidence.

[gestalt]

chick a saw -

IMO. I think you are on to something here--the detectives may want to find out if there are any persons of interest who may travel from state to state with the pow-wow circuit.

Also, the "Indian" costume, may have been a provoking factor.

[gestalt]

The smiley face graffito motif could be interpreted as a kind of rock painting or "glyph"

[gestalt]

Native American gangs, IMO

[gestalt]

I must admit my naivety concerning gangs, much less native gangs. Point being that there is a network that spans the country. Many of the tribal members themselves are extremely afraid of retribution. I'm sure that the investigators have not only been looking into this, but finding it difficult to acquire any information.

[gestalt]

wrong spelling, sorry, it is: naivete not naivety

[baywench]

Originally posted by gestalt
Native American gangs, IMO [/*]

I read somewhere that they were looking into people that worked for Trane because their main offices and alot of their service contracts were in these areas. Anyone heard that? JMO

[gestalt]

baywench -

I was the first one to hint that I read that on another site. We did make note of it several posts up. Thank you anyways!

[annalyzer]

Originally posted by Knick
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,358901,00.html

They found the body of Nick Garza. [/*]



Smiley face connection

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/local&id=6131011

[gestalt]

I was reminded of this detail when re-reading this article:

The detectives discovered the nicknames of the group at more than one location.

http://kstp.com/article/stories/s421846.shtml?v=1

[Oehll]

Originally posted by gestalt
I was reminded of this detail when re-reading this article:

The detectives discovered the nicknames of the group at more than one location.

http://kstp.com/article/stories/s421846.shtml?v=1 [/*]
--------------------------


Yes!!! This is one of the main reasons I have such a hard time with the FBI "blowing this off"!!

I have read about everything I could find re. this, and it seems to me there HAS to be something connecting all these cases......and they have kept happening this year.......

What is LE and the FBI thinking?!?

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by Oehll

--------------------------


Yes!!! This is one of the main reasons I have such a hard time with the FBI "blowing this off"!!

I have read about everything I could find re. this, and it seems to me there HAS to be something connecting all these cases......and they have kept happening this year.......

What is LE and the FBI thinking?!? [/*]

I know it's been said before, but if there had been 40 young women die at the hands of a serial killer, someone at the FBI would be working on this already, IMO.

If there is any possibility that someone is targeting young men on college campuses and killing them, IMO it warrants investigation at the highest level and with the high priority it deserves.

[AmndaRcknwth]

Justamama, interesting theories. TY.

[Marcia3]

Justamama, welcome to the forum. I don't post here too often, but I like to read and try to keep up with any news on this situation.

I think you may be onto something with the profile info, and theory that it could be a man dressed as a woman who is luring these guys into an alley or side street. We have a case of a missing college student near where I live (he has not been found) and he fits the profile of the victims in this case to the letter. I believe when he is found, he will be added to the list of possible victims of this killer/killers.

Thanks for your information and thoughts. It made for quite interesting reading!

:seeya:

[gestalt]

Justamama -

I believe the detectives are thinking it is a gang because of the travel distance between the locales; most likely directives are communicated to members in various locations either over the internet or by phone.

They would have to have a common revenge motivation, IMO.

One person said on another web site that security cameras showed what he believed to be 3 Hispanic women talking to one of the victims before he left the bar. Question: could it have been 3 Native American women who are in this gang who serve as lures.

And what you said about crude, drunken behavior is exactly what a pictured in my mind as a trigger to further enrage the perpetrators.

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by Justamama
Marcia3:

I know this is off topic however I wanted to tell you that I collect really great little sayings like on bumper stickers ect... and your signature statement made me laugh like I haven't for a good week or so!

I LOVE IT!! Mind if I collect that one as well?

Here's one from my collection:

"Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in Australia!" (Charles Schultz).


Also: I am an enormous advocate of NEVER revealing your personal identification on the internet, however is there some way you could post the name of the missing student in your area without giving away any of your own personal info?

Just a hint or whatever so that I can research the missing person.

Sometimes (and this is VERY rare) I or others could be of help.

Thanks again! [/*]

You are more than welcome to add it to your collection. I have had more reaction to that tag line than any other I have ever used here!

The missing college student is Brian Shaffer, who dissaappeared on 4/1/06 from a bar in Columbus OH. There is a thread on the Amber Alerts forum for Brian. A body was recently found in a river about 1.5 miles from the bar where Brian was last seen, but it was not Brian. But when the young man was found in the river, my first thought was that it might be Brian, and my second thought was that it might be another smiley face killing.

I didn't know Brian, but when he first went missing, there was a lot of media coverage of the case. He was a medical student with a bright future and a fiance' and plans to leave the following week on a vacation for spring break. He was out with friends that Friday night, bar hopping, and is seen on video footage going into a bar, but there is no footage showing him going out of the same bar, so that rings a bell.

Brian was (or is) tall, handsome, athletic, and was out for a night of drinking and fun with his buddies. Another commonality of these cases.

[Oehll]

Originally posted by Justamama
Marcia3;

I wish the investigators would leak just a little bit more information out to the public. This is going to drive me batty. [/*]

-------------------------------

Good to see a new perspective on the board....WELCOME!

I don't post much, but do read all posts, and keep up with some other forums re. this.

In a way I can understand why the dets. are keeping a lot of things close to the vest, but it sure is hard on us armchair sleuths!

This case has totally grabbed my attention, too, for some reason.... maybe because I raised 2 sons.

The attitude of LE and the FBI truly upsets me. Like you, I am hoping someone on one of the forums will be able to help put the pieces together. There are a lot of people interested! AND a lot of prayers being said for these families.....

[Magnum357]

Originally posted by Justamama


Any chance in a million that I knew this "astute" woman ???

I also met a supremely intelligent man on a web site many years ago and his posts contributed greatly to many discussions. [/*]

My apologies for going off topic but I feel compelled to post this:

((((((((((Justamama)))))))))

hammer :D

[Oehll]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Justamama
Oehll :
snipped
I do know that when I was following another case several years ago I was told by someone that there isn't one single case that has ever been solved by a non law enforcement person ie: the average citizen like me.

Still doesn't stop me from reading and keeping track.

Nite [/*
---------------------------------


AMEN!

[gestalt]

I saw this case on a tv show, don't remember which; however I was wondering about the substance used to render the victims helpless.

Could it have been succinylcholine chloride, which is a muscle relaxant for surgery and can cause paralysis and death. The substance was not detected in the victim's body.

Scroll down and read the Kimberly Hricko case.

http://www.equaljustice.ca/cgi-bin/forum.cgi/noframes/read/6421

When I saw the program on tv, the reporter said that the victim, though paralyzed, could probably still be alive and conscious but not able to move when she set the fire.

[Oehll]

Originally posted by gestalt
I saw this case on a tv show, don't remember which; however I was wondering about the substance used to render the victims helpless.

Could it have been succinylcholine chloride, which is a muscle relaxant for surgery and can cause paralysis and death. The substance was not detected in the victim's body.

Scroll down and read the Kimberly Hricko case.

http://www.equaljustice.ca/cgi-bin/forum.cgi/noframes/read/6421

When I saw the program on tv, the reporter said that the victim, though paralyzed, could probably still be alive and conscious but not able to move when she set the fire. [/*]
_________________________

Possible......but, It seems to me that GHB would be a lot easier for people to get than succinylcholine. IMO, only folks in the medical profession would have access to sc, and it would likely be an iitem that was closely controlled.

Also it seems GHB's effects would be effective for quite a bit longer than the 4 minutes it says it takes for sc to kill someone. Sounds like an awful way to go, doesn't it!?!

[gestalt]

I guess it depends on how much of the sc is administered. In smaller doses it can paralyze but not kill, I guess. You are right about difficulty in obtaining it.

Now I am thinking about the whole Zombie thing. I remember reading about some substance that would cause a person to be paralyzed but aware of everything going on.

My sister, before she died in a car accident, was "date" raped after a roophie was put in her drink.

[gestalt]

This is the paralyzing poison where the victim can stay conscious, from the Blowfish--scan down and read Tetrodotoxin Poisoning.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrodotoxin

The fish is a delicacy in Japan and now in New York, after the poison is removed.

[annalyzer]

Originally posted by gestalt

My sister, before she died in a car accident, was "date" raped after a roophie was put in her drink. [/*]

:rose:

[gestalt]

Thank you for so very much everyone for caring. That's not all of it, including my own victimization (multiple); however, those experiences give us empathy, understanding and a special insight to try to help others.

[Oehll]

Originally posted by gestalt
Thank you for so very much everyone for caring. That's not all of it, including my own victimization (multiple); however, those experiences give us empathy, understanding and a special insight to try to help others. [/*]
-----------------------

So sorry to hear of your loss & your own personal victimization. IMO your observations about your experience are right on......and I would just add that it likely gives you extra impetus to work in helping others. May you continue to be so caring.

[annalyzer]

Nothing new in this case lately? :confused:

[SaraSidle]

There is a man missing in MN. There is a thread here about it and I think he may be another victim. IMO

[FortKnoxWife]

I read things here everyday, I just don't post much, I am originally from Minnesota and will be moving back in a few months.
I wanted to give a HUGE thank you here to all the people here for all the information, I have 3 sons (ages from 15-24) and I appreciate the informative posts. I have spoken to each of them about never being alone anywhere, it is just to dangerous.
God Bless you all!
God Bless the families:rose:

[theletter_Q]

I never put much stock in the smiley face killer theory until I read this thread here. It just seemed too far-fetched. After reading several posts, though, I'm almost ready to consider it.

The posts that got to me where the ones that mention how there aren't any female victims found. I realize it is more likely that a male will wander off on his own or stay behind at the bar after his friends leave. Still, though, why have they only been mostly males that have vanished from college towns where there is a river or good sized creek?

You have really made me start to think out of the box. I honestly believed these were just young men who had to much to drink along with drugs. But now I'm wondering.

[Kip]

Now, if a person was looking at this case simply with a dry, scientific and mathmatical eye, simple STATISTICS would tell you that if you believed what the FBI was saying and what the police in LaCrosse, WI were saying and these drownings were all just a simple, open and shut case of young, stupid, drunk kids falling in the river and drowning then by God that vacation area of college students tubing the river should by the very LEAST have a drowning or two each weekend right??? At the very LEAST!

Justamama, I really enjoyed reading your take on things.

I've been following these drowning deaths of young men for 8 years now. I agree with what you posted above. This is a real statistical anomaly. Also, drunk young men in the Midwest weren't drowning before this time period and drunk young men aren't drowning in other parts of the country. There are lots of colleges and universities where I live and lots of water and not one young man has gone missing and drowned in this same time period.

[spirit07]

Don't know if anything about this has been posted or not ....

http://www.bclocalnews.com/opinion/20574754.html

Mysterious deaths piling up
Published: June 19, 2008 1:00 PM

"Earlier this month a Vancouver Courier feature story showed some staggering numbers. Going back to 2003, as many as 22 men aged 18-52 have vanished with no real leads whatsoever. The similarities are there, however hazy. Most are young, athletic, work construction or labour jobs and have tattoos, and go missing after a night of drinking or partying with friends at crowded places. Some have vanished during the day and a ton of false sightings have occurred...

The no-bodies aspect is particularly puzzling. With the so-called Smiley Face murders in the U.S. Midwest, young men were reported missing, but their bodies washed up on riverbanks days later. The remains gave some form of closure, such as in the case of convicted killer Robert ‘Willy’ Pickton, when DNA samples from decomposed remains found on his Port Coquitlam pig farm were matched to missing Vancouver prostitutes."

[spirit07]

Justamama... yeah, I thought 'how weird' also! Now it's in another country! Creepy. I'm also curious, wondering, maybe the smiley faces aren't really a solid part of the MO or never were? Although, since they have never found any of these bodies, I guess they can't track back to a location or don't even know if the 'water' is a common theme. Too much of a coincidence though that now there are so many missing in another area/country when they are mostly males of a particular profile that were last seen in a bar/party? Good grief, maybe we have some strange bartenders thing going on?

[spirit07]

I just had a strange thought. On rereading part of the Canadian article, it almost sounds like some sort of game - first "go after athletic, college guys with high grade point averages", now, "go after muscle bound construction workers with tattoos."

Maybe it really only has to do with location - what guys are typically there as long as they are strong, good looking, or whatever? The tattoo thing threw me a bit the second read through though - maybe most construction guys just have tattoos?

Geez, I still think they are stealing sperm or DNA! I've watched too much science fiction over my lifetime.

[gestalt]

You know what, I've been thinking lately we haven't heard much about these type of drownings recently in the U.S. Many of the rivers in the U.S. have been flooding. Could it be that the people responsible for the deaths have been more focused on Canada where the rivers are at usual level, easier to access?

[Oehll]

Originally posted by gestalt
You know what, I've been thinking lately we haven't heard much about these type of drownings recently in the U.S. Many of the rivers in the U.S. have been flooding. Could it be that the people responsible for the deaths have been more focused on Canada where the rivers are at usual level, easier to access? [/*]


Could be........but haven't there also been some young men disappearing here in the US whose bodies have not been found either??? Just a thought....I am totally stymied by all this!!

[CuppyCakes]

hey all.. haven't posted here in AWHILE, but logged on tonight, and read this forum first... and ummm, creeeepy!!! i hadn't heard a thing about this until i read the postings, and i'm here in s. west michigan in the middle of it all... what i don't understand is why the FBI is so quick to dismiss these detectives findings?

[Marcia3]

This just in from central Ohio:

http://www.10tv.com/live/content/local/stories/2008/07/01/story_body_river.html?sid=102

Not enough details yet to know if this death has anything in common with others that have been reported so far, but we do have a missing young man, gone two years now, from the Columbus area. I keep waiting for him to be found, and since he fits the basic description of the others in this case, I am concerned that he, too, has fallen victim.

[gestalt]

Originally posted by Justamama
Both of you make excellent points here in the development of this new thing going on in Canada.

Quite frankly I'm mystified by the magnitude of the situation.

Spirit like you were mentioning it does almost sound like a game, first with the college, athletic types and second with the construction types. After reading all of that you just KNOW that there's definitely some drugs involved to subdue these guys. Just no way to get some big construction guy kidnapped without some type of anesthetic.

But the LACK of bodies.

gestalt you make an EXCELLENT point also about the rivers being high and the flow of water. MAYBE these bodies are in the river and the water is just too high and fast yet to find some of the recent ones.

You know though, remember back when we were discussing the connection between Native Americans and retaliation for the slaughter of innocent members of their communities (most of those murdered where homeless or quite impoverished), anyway the one article I have saved was from Alaska and the Native people up there were also being murdered.

(Remember me mentioning the 7 homeless indian men in Rapid Creek, SD who were found "drowned"?).

When I read that this was also going on in Canada that was my initial impression...the Native American connection.

Lastly...As you were mentioning, without the bodies, it is quite impossible to determine where they went into the water. But, when you think about bridges and general public water access where teenagers might hang out I would think it's fair to say that a person would be able to find a good amount of graffitti at these locations.

Having said that, I have wondered about the validity of the "smile" face symbol to begin with. Like I had mentioned before, other than writing swear words or signing your initials what would be the single other most common thing to draw with a paint can? Probably smiley faces.

This Canada thing has caught me so totally off guard I'm going to have to go back to my maps and re-think some of these movements. [/*]


I'm between the native gang retaliation motive and the pervert sociopath motive. There is no reason whatsoever that it couldn't be both simultaneously.

[gestalt]

Originally posted by Justamama
Both of you make excellent points here in the development of this new thing going on in Canada.

Quite frankly I'm mystified by the magnitude of the situation.

Spirit like you were mentioning it does almost sound like a game, first with the college, athletic types and second with the construction types. After reading all of that you just KNOW that there's definitely some drugs involved to subdue these guys. Just no way to get some big construction guy kidnapped without some type of anesthetic.

But the LACK of bodies.

gestalt you make an EXCELLENT point also about the rivers being high and the flow of water. MAYBE these bodies are in the river and the water is just too high and fast yet to find some of the recent ones.

You know though, remember back when we were discussing the connection between Native Americans and retaliation for the slaughter of innocent members of their communities (most of those murdered where homeless or quite impoverished), anyway the one article I have saved was from Alaska and the Native people up there were also being murdered.

(Remember me mentioning the 7 homeless indian men in Rapid Creek, SD who were found "drowned"?).

When I read that this was also going on in Canada that was my initial impression...the Native American connection.

Lastly...As you were mentioning, without the bodies, it is quite impossible to determine where they went into the water. But, when you think about bridges and general public water access where teenagers might hang out I would think it's fair to say that a person would be able to find a good amount of graffitti at these locations.

Having said that, I have wondered about the validity of the "smile" face symbol to begin with. Like I had mentioned before, other than writing swear words or signing your initials what would be the single other most common thing to draw with a paint can? Probably smiley faces.

This Canada thing has caught me so totally off guard I'm going to have to go back to my maps and re-think some of these movements. [/*]


I'm between the native gang retaliation motive and the pervert sociopath motive. There is no reason whatsoever that it couldn't be both simultaneously.

[airportwoman]

I'll be tuning in.

IMHO, if women were turning up drowned, this would have been solved a long time ago (assuming it is a serial killer; we just don't know).

[iluvmua]

There is a new website up about the Smiley Faced Killers:

www.sfkillers.com

It was started by Kristi Piehl and Bill Szostak; Josh Szostak's dad.

[airportwoman]

Did anyone see the "Larry King Live" show about this last night? That criminologist was very interesting and he could have done it for the whole hour.

He, and the other panelists, believe this is an organized group in more than one location.

[iluvmua]

There is a new website about the Smiley Faced Killers:

www.sfkillers.com

This website was started by Kristi Piehl and Bill Szostak; Josh Szostak's Father.

[incognito]

Just a heads up. Jan Jenkins (Chris Jenkins mom) just published a book about their sons case. The book is called Footprints of Courage

http://www.footprintsofcourage.com/

[Casspian]

There is a new website about the Smiley Faced Killers:

www.sfkillers.com

This website was started by Kristi Piehl and Bill Szostak; Josh Szostak's Father.

Some interesting discussion on this page...

http://sfkillers.com/?p=603

[Shelby1]

Just a heads up. Jan Jenkins (Chris Jenkins mom) just published a book about their sons case. The book is called Footprints of Courage

http://www.footprintsofcourage.com/

I just got this book in the mail yesterday. Jan even signed it and put a very nice inscription. I couldn't get past the first page without crying :crying: It's a very well-written book so far.