April 22 to 27

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by hinman
I doubt anybody really believes in partial justice.

I have seen people convicted just because they are not liked. I would hate that more then partial justice. Tor ruin some one's life because someone feels like they were involved yet has no proof would be devastating.

I think that is why I am cautious on who to blame for Maria's death. I would hate to think that if I was related to Christina or friends with Christina then I would be guilty by association.

Anyway just thought I would throw my opinion in on partial justice. To think that there would not have to be evidence to bring someone full justice is freightening. [/*]

Hinman, that IS......POST OF THE DAY!!!!!!!!!

:beer:

:rose:

[sunstar]

Originally posted by Babes
Capt Sutherland said :



"think"? "possible?" Then how could they rule she's innocent if they are not really sure about this information?

Hmm am confused - Let me go home now and ill login there :) [/*]
He's definitley leaving the door open, just in case!

[strick10]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


I was trying to find a reasonable response to Babes, as I truly respect her opinion. But this is what bothers me too.

WHY ON EARTH ARE WE FOCUSING ON A RAPE ALLEGATION right now, when the accused is within our reach and we will be seeing a road to justice?

Who wants to see it destroyed by blunders of this magnitude? These people have to think about what they are doing. I don't see anything wrong with trying to make changes, but there is a time and a place for a review of the rape allegations IMO. :patriot: [/*]

That's just it CK they are not thinking. They've already publicly convicted CAL on both issues. I can understand what Mary is trying to accomplish I really can but she is going about it the wrong way. Turner has an agenda and he's using Maria and Mary. I really hope their actions don't result in embarassment to Marias memory.

[GentleBreeze]

I am just going to paraphrase an answer given by Sutherland because I don't think we are allowed to quote him from another site.

Anyway, I found this interesting.

It is in regards to the rape allegation question and he says they aren't investigating any complaints of rape against Maria which we pretty much already knew since that is a MC issue. He goes on to say they have probable cause against Cesar (strange he calls him by his first name imo) but he goes on to say that it is possible that new evidence could arise in the future and implicate someone else. He said he can't predict or exclude.

So since he was giving an answer about the rape allegation is he talking about someone else may be involved in the rape allegations? Could this have something to do with Lindell's source that said they think Laurean is not the father?

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by hinman
I doubt anybody really believes in partial justice.

I have seen people convicted just because they are not liked. I would hate that more then partial justice. Tor ruin some one's life because someone feels like they were involved yet has no proof would be devastating.

I think that is why I am cautious on who to blame for Maria's death. I would hate to think that if I was related to Christina or friends with Christina then I would be guilty by association.

Anyway just thought I would throw my opinion in on partial justice. To think that there would not have to be evidence to bring someone full justice is frightening. [/*]

The only person I can think of that may have been convicted because they were not liked was Cindy Sommer and I think the jury also believed the faulty forensic testing on the arsenic which the Judge was in error and should have never let it in. I have seen detestable defendants go free.

I think 99% of the jurors in the country do an exemplary job day in and day out. Then you have the few cases where biases of some kind come into play even resulting in guilty people going free or them getting merely a slap on the wrist when they deserved a much stiffer punishment or those who are innocent and found guilty but it is extremely rare and bound to happen as long as our court system is run by human beings who are flawed and imperfect. Thank goodness the vast majority of cases are upheld and have been tried and tested and remain solid.

Full justice to me means that all persons who participated in a crime of this magnitude should be fully accountable. I most definitely believe that all of those persons if charged .........their cases should be proven BARD.

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Babes
Capt Sutherland said :



"think"? "possible?" Then how could they rule she's innocent if they are not really sure about this information?

Hmm am confused - Let me go home now and ill login there :) [/*]

Oh sheesh here we go again with the wishy washy talk.

Think? Possible? What about stating "We KNOW she has no involvment?" Sounds pretty simple to me since we are coming up on 4 months.

imoo

[hinman]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


The only person I can think of that may have been convicted because they were not liked was Cindy Sommer and I think the jury also believed the faulty forensic testing on the arsenic which the Judge was in error and should have never let it in. I have seen detestable defendants go free.

I think 99% of the jurors in the country do an exemplary job day in and day out. Then you have the few cases where biases of some kind come into play even resulting in guilty people going free or them getting merely a slap on the wrist when they deserved a much stiffer punishment or those who are innocent and found guilty but it is extremely rare and bound to happen as long as our court system is run by human beings who are flawed and imperfect. Thank goodness the vast majority of cases are upheld and have been tried and tested and remain solid.

Full justice to me means that all persons who participated in a crime of this magnitude should be fully accountable. I most definitely believe that all of those persons if charged .........their cases should be proven BARD.

imoo [/*]Ron Williamson is another one I can think of who was found guilty and spent many years in prison due to his lifestyle only to be exonerated.

I agree Full justice means all persons should be held accountable but there has to be proof first. A lot of times that does not happen ( full justice).

I just watched a trial where that did not happen , I can't think of the name now ( where the girlfriend of the married guy kills his wife at the bank she worked at. Her friend who planned it with her got no charges.)

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by hinman
Ron Williamson is another one I can think of who was found guilty and spent many years in prison due to his lifestyle only to be exonerated.

I agree Full justice means all persons should be held accountable but there has to be proof first. A lot of times that does not happen ( full justice).

I just watched a trial where that did not happen , I can't think of the name now ( where the girlfriend of the married guy kills his wife at the bank she worked at. Her friend who planned it with her got no charges.) [/*]

I am not familiar with that case. Was there an eye witness? Many times that is one of the main reasons innocent people are sent to prison as eye witness testimony can be so faulty.

imoo

[IvySterling]

~snipped
Originally posted by GentleBreeze


The only person I can think of that may have been convicted because they were not liked was Cindy Sommer . [/*]
You've got that right, and the Marines were coming out of the woodwork trash talking her on local message boards. Everyone in the area was trash talking her, it was a mess.

[Babes]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Oh sheesh here we go again with the wishy washy talk.

Think? Possible? What about stating "We KNOW she has no involvment?" Sounds pretty simple to me since we are coming up on 4 months.

imoo [/*]

IMO If some defense lawyer is going to volunteer to be Cesar's lawyer in the future then they might as well start printing what was posted there by RS not unless Cesar will fully admitted to everything that was charged to him

[hinman]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I am not familiar with that case. Was there an eye witness? Many times that is one of the main reasons innocent people are sent to prison as eye witness testimony can be so faulty.

imoo [/*]I can't remember GB. Sorry. I don't think there was though.

Anyway I am ready for some new info to be released in this case.

[Babes]

Originally posted by Coldwater
[/*]


Thanks Coldwater. :)

[Babes]

Originally posted by hinman


Anyway I am ready for some new info to be released in this case. [/*]

Me too. Cant wait to hear something from CL's family ( parents and sister ) - i do think that Blanca knows more about this IMO

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by hinman
I can't remember GB. Sorry. I don't think there was though.

Anyway I am ready for some new info to be released in this case. [/*]

I know what you mean. Maybe they will drop a huge package into the laps of the media tomorrow and we will have some new information to discuss.

Way too quiet in here and we need to keep this board up and running because Laurean could come back quicker than expected especially if he waives extradition at his first hearing.

imoo

[Babes]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I know what you mean. Maybe they will drop a huge package into the laps of the media tomorrow and we will have some new information to discuss.

Way too quiet in here and we need to keep this board up and running because Laurean could come back quicker than expected especially if he waives extradition at his first hearing.

imoo [/*]

I am curious how could Cesar continue to trust Christina and talk to her via internet after LE already said she's a cooperating witness. How sure is Cesar that he's not chatting with someone from LE instead of Christina?

[Pag Boi]

Originally posted by Babes


IMO If some defense lawyer is going to volunteer to be Cesar's lawyer in the future then they might as well start printing what was posted there by RS not unless Cesar will fully admitted to everything that was charged to him [/*]

Bingo! Seems more likely to me that LE would be on a board online trying to gather info not give it away or grant doubt to the defendant. I think it makes the DA's job much tougher.

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by Babes


Me too. Cant wait to hear something from CL's family ( parents and sister ) - i do think that Blanca knows more about this IMO [/*]
I think there are several people who know a lot about this case on both sides of the family.

Until CAL is back here in the States I don't expect to hear anything from those who know more, and maybe not even then until there's a trial.

[IvySterling]

It was interesting to read that several feet by several feel located in the garage had been painted, and yet no photos of that area were ever shown :shrug:

[Babes]

Originally posted by IvySterling

I think there are several people who know a lot about this case on both sides of the family.

Until CAL is back here in the States I don't expect to hear anything from those who know more, and maybe not even then until there's a trial. [/*]

:)

where is greta when we needed her :D

[alter ego]

Originally posted by Babes


IMO If some defense lawyer is going to volunteer to be Cesar's lawyer in the future then they might as well start printing what was posted there by RS not unless Cesar will fully admitted to everything that was charged to him [/*]If RS is posting fact from the case file then Cesar's atty will get it first hand from discovery.

[Jan Powell]

If the decision on extradition in the mock trial in TX has any relevance; IMO this is not the time for DOD to hold hearings about the handling of the alleged sexual assault. Because it's the silly season (election) the participants would need to be gagged and I don't see that happening.

The MC and what they fear them doing may keep the Mexican government from extraditing. And apparently the MC is who CL fears the most, why would he not fight extradition to avoid that?

[alter ego]

Originally posted by Jan Powell
If the decision on extradition in the mock trial in TX has any relevance; IMO this is not the time for DOD to hold hearings about the handling of the alleged sexual assault. Because it's the silly season (election) the participants would need to be gagged and I don't see that happening.

The MC and what they fear them doing may keep the Mexican government from extraditing. And apparently the MC is who CL fears the most, why would he not fight extradition to avoid that? [/*]Per the extradition treaty, Mexico will decline to extradite if the offense is purely a military one. Desertion would fall under that umbrella, but not rape.

[chance]

Originally posted by IvySterling

In all honesty I don't understand Mary at all. To me at this time her entire focus should be on her daughter's murder and finding out the truth. [/*]


IMO. The rape or no rape has everything to do with the murder. Mary wants the whole truth and I think she is very focused. She is starting from the beginning. We have not heard the last of her. IMO she will not give up.

It is going to be a long road to finding out the truth. If ever.

moo

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Oh sheesh here we go again with the wishy washy talk.

Think? Possible? What about stating "We KNOW she has no involvment?" Sounds pretty simple to me since we are coming up on 4 months.

imoo [/*]

I think that's saying something pretty major. Consider it this way....the vast majority of posters like yourself have said time and time again it is IMpossible that she was not involved. 100% IMPOSSIBLE. So for anyone to say, "yes it is possible she wasn't involved" is a pretty huge big deal. In other words, "NO, you posters are WRONG, it IS possible." IMO.

[MoonFlwr]

Originally posted by Babes


I am curious how could Cesar continue to trust Christina and talk to her via internet after LE already said she's a cooperating witness. How sure is Cesar that he's not chatting with someone from LE instead of Christina? [/*]

Maybe he just kept the conversation vague and didn't give away any clues/info that could be used against him, should it be a member of LE that he was actually talking to.

[Charlotte]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


I think that's saying something pretty major. Consider it this way....the vast majority of posters like yourself have said time and time again it is IMpossible that she was not involved. 100% IMPOSSIBLE. So for anyone to say, "yes it is possible she wasn't involved" is a pretty huge big deal. In other words, "NO, you posters are WRONG, it IS possible." IMO. [/*]

ITA Savannah. Sutherland was responding to a specific question, wherein a poster had quoted Ed Brown as saying "it's possible she didn't know" and then asked RS if he held the same opinion as Ed Brown. Sutherland's answer was that yes, he also thought it was possible that Christina had no idea of what had happened at her home when she returned there that night.

It was a declarative statement to a direct question. Both Ed Brown and RS believe the same thing regarding Christina, any differing opinions from others notwithstanding.

There was nothing wishy-washy about it. IMO

[cuppajoe]

Originally posted by Charlotte


ITA Savannah. Sutherland was responding to a specific question, wherein a poster had quoted Ed Brown as saying "it's possible she didn't know" and then asked RS if he held the same opinion as Ed Brown. Sutherland's answer was that yes, he also thought it was possible that Christina had no idea of what had happened at her home when she returned there that night.

It was a declarative statement to a direct question. Both Ed Brown and RS believe the same thing regarding Christina, any differing opinions from others notwithstanding.

There was nothing wishy-washy about it. IMO [/*]

:beer:

[Charlotte]

Question for Coldwater (asking publicly so we all know the answer):

Is it all right to discuss the posts "over there" that involve the questions and answers posed to and given by Capt. Sutherland?

If not, I apologize for my above post and please delete it.

Not sure if it's just the bickering between posters here and there that is to be kept off of this board, or also the posts from Capt. Sutherland and/or Lindell Kay? Thanks in advance for direction on this.

[KKKKKKatie]

Originally posted by Charlotte
Question for Coldwater (asking publicly so we all know the answer):

Is it all right to discuss the posts "over there" that involve the questions and answers posed to and given by Capt. Sutherland?

If not, I apologize for my above post and please delete it.

Not sure if it's just the bickering between posters here and there that is to be kept off of this board, or also the posts from Capt. Sutherland and/or Lindell Kay? Thanks in advance for direction on this. [/*]

Morning Charlotte :seeya:

I took it to mean the bickering as CW's post came after some posts about it (mine included...sorry CW)

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by Babes


I am curious how could Cesar continue to trust Christina and talk to her via internet after LE already said she's a cooperating witness. How sure is Cesar that he's not chatting with someone from LE instead of Christina? [/*]

Now that is a very good question Babes, but something tells me they had established codes for free speech when in communication. I guess you could consider such a maneuver as conspiring to avoid being caught up in something that might not look good to LE. Who knows???? barf

I'll be eager to find out when trial time comes on that one.

;) ALL JMO

[Charlotte]

Originally posted by KKKKKKatie


Morning Charlotte :seeya:

I took it to mean the bickering as CW's post came after some posts about it (mine included...sorry CW) [/*]

Morning, KKKKKKatie :seeya:

I originally took it to mean that too, but on re-reading my post after it went up it occurred to me that I was talking about posts and posters at the other site, and got to worrying that I may have just directly violated a rule that CW had just reminded us about. I'm hoping that I didn't, as that was not my intent.
I'm also hoping that only the bickering stuff is what is not allowed to be referenced here. I asked CW to clarify it so that we'll all know for sure what the parameters are, and nobody will risk unintentionally violating them.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Charlotte


Morning, KKKKKKatie :seeya:

I originally took it to mean that too, but on re-reading my post after it went up it occurred to me that I was talking about posts and posters at the other site, and got to worrying that I may have just directly violated a rule that CW had just reminded us about. I'm hoping that I didn't, as that was not my intent.
I'm also hoping that only the bickering stuff is what is not allowed to be referenced here. I asked CW to clarify it so that we'll all know for sure what the parameters are, and nobody will risk unintentionally violating them. [/*]

I am glad you asked that question, Charlotte. I am a little unclear on what can be discussed and what can't. I so agree with CW that the bickering that is going on over on a blog has no place here (I made comments about that myself and realized I should not have done so)

But since Captain Sutherland has answered questions for a crime reporter on his blog are we able to discuss what CS has said or not? That is what I am unsure about and also if Lindell writes an article in the Jacksonville Daily News can those topic be up for discussion here?

imoo:seeya:

[KKKKKKatie]

Originally posted by Charlotte


Morning, KKKKKKatie :seeya:

I originally took it to mean that too, but on re-reading my post after it went up it occurred to me that I was talking about posts and posters at the other site, and got to worrying that I may have just directly violated a rule that CW had just reminded us about. I'm hoping that I didn't, as that was not my intent.
I'm also hoping that only the bickering stuff is what is not allowed to be referenced here. I asked CW to clarify it so that we'll all know for sure what the parameters are, and nobody will risk unintentionally violating them. [/*]

you are right...she did re-post it. I guess we will just have to wait and see what she says. Thanks for asking the question!

[daniel green]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


Yes! Who was it that said the rape is now history? Daniel I think. [/*]

Yep. It was me.

And I still stand on that, despite the blathering of any congressman trying to get some publicity somehow.

[daniel green]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


snipped

I don't see anything wrong with trying to make changes, but there is a time and a place for a review of the rape allegations IMO. :patriot: [/*]

Well, in fact, the marines have already reviewed their actions on this case and have found that everything was followed to a t.

It seems that ML's mother is trying to get a hook into the bigger alleged "rape in the military" story--as she already has said she told ML. Think of the OTHER women. Etc.

But I think that it is a rather flimsy attempt at trying to bolster the obviously false accusations with other women's stories.

[daniel green]

Originally posted by hinman
I think the rape allegations really bother Mary especially when it was looking like they were false add that on top

snipped
I am not sure if the rape allegations will be brought in to the trial of the murder since he has never been charged. [/*]

It does seem it bothers the mother a great deal. Especially since they were false. I am getting a whiff of Beth Twitty "my daughter was a spotless virgin" going on here. And that never serves anyone well. In fact, I believe it does the opposite.

I disagree about the rape allegations coming in at trial. If there is a trial, I would think that CL's lawyers would bring it in. They would want to show that ML acccused him falsely and that she then told the marines that he was not the putative father, etc.

[daniel green]

Originally posted by Babes


Hi Candy :seeya:

The only thing i can think of here is Mary Lauterbach wants full justice for Maria. She would like someone to pay for the Rape Charges

snipped. [/*]

How is justice served with a false accusation? Or trying to in some way backtrack or join in with other women to make a rape accusation, while patently ridiculous on its own, made stronger?

How is that justice? Let alone "full justice," whatever that means?

(Nevermind how someone finds "justice" in an allegation or court room, but that discussion is for a different place and time)

The rape investigation is over. DONE.

Heck, even the POST review of the rape investigation is over. The marines have reviewed the handling of this case and everything was done according to the rules. Despite the changing accusations, backtracking, date changing and later retractions.

What is the fee/charge for the "rape charges?" How does one pay for that?

Unless she wants her daughter branded more of a liar and a false accuser in death? :eek:

[daniel green]

Originally posted by Babes
Capt Sutherland said :



"think"? "possible?" Then how could they rule she's innocent if they are not really sure about this information?

Hmm am confused - Let me go home now and ill login there :) [/*]

They have not ruled it out because it is impossible to rule it out altogether, just like with any other case in which the time of death is unavailable and therefore, alibis don't mean much.

However, from S's post, we can finally put the old they will charge CL down the line with dessecration. It ain't happening.

Per CS at your link:

I believe that the crime dealing with the handling of a corpse is derived from English Common Law. I do not know that it was codified in the General Statutes. I know that it is a Misdemeanor. I believe that the crime is charged where the suspect is not believed to be responsible for the death of the victim and only interacts with the corpse after the death.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by daniel green


Well, in fact, the marines have already reviewed their actions on this case and have found that everything was followed to a t.

It seems that ML's mother is trying to get a hook into the bigger alleged "rape in the military" story--as she already has said she told ML. Think of the OTHER women. Etc.

But I think that it is a rather flimsy attempt at trying to bolster the obviously false accusations with other women's stories. [/*]

I am deeply saddened by much of what I've seen lately concerning Maria's mother. The mere idea that changing the myspace would be a concern and we would be worrying about rape allegations when there is a murder trial coming down the pike is hard to understand.

I think she has found a place now and probably won't be returning to her job at the college if she hasn't already. JMO tho. It seems the after-calling is prevalent in this society.

IF these same people who find themselves drawn to that calling out of tragedy would get personal responsibility and safety on their agenda, I would find myself much more supportive.

JMO tho. :(

[daniel green]

Originally posted by Babes


snipped

I dont believe in Partial Justice as well just like Ocean. [/*]

Not being snarky here, really. I am asking this most respectfully because I really would like to know.

What is partial justice?

What is full justice?

Does anyone like partial justice?

Thank you.

[daniel green]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


snipped

The mere idea that changing the myspace would be a concern and we would be worrying about rape allegations when there is a murder trial coming down the pike is hard to understand.

snipped

IF these same people who find themselves drawn to that calling out of tragedy would get personal responsibility and safety on their agenda, I would find myself much more supportive.

JMO tho. :( [/*]


I so agree, CK. I know I hate to read posts that say some variation of "I would never _____," or "I would always ____," but here I go, nonetheless, and my apologies.

If my child, G-d forbid, died the very last thing on my mind would be a my space page. Ever. I find it difficult to believe that for years I would be able to just make it through a day, let alone change beer to soccer or know or care.

Sorry, but these carry on the cause for life victim families have always left me rather cold. Perhaps because I work and have always worked, with perpetrators, victims and their families that it just rings so false to me.

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by daniel green


Not being snarky here, really. I am asking this most respectfully because I really would like to know.

What is partial justice?

What is full justice?

Does anyone like partial justice?

Thank you. [/*]

:biggrin: Oh you know what it's meant on here.

[strick10]

Originally posted by daniel green


-respectfully snipped-

Unless she wants her daughter branded more of a liar and a false accuser in death? :eek: [/*]

DG you said it! I am afraid that that is going to be the end result. Though the MC will not release all the information/facts they have regarding Maria so as not to embarass Maria or her family I believe everything is eventually going to come out as Mary and Turner continue to press the issue. If this happens then Mary will have failed her daughter and her daugters memory.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by daniel green



I so agree, CK. I know I hate to read posts that say some variation of "I would never _____," or "I would always ____," but here I go, nonetheless, and my apologies.

If my child, G-d forbid, died the very last thing on my mind would be a my space page. Ever. I find it difficult to believe that for years I would be able to just make it through a day, let alone change beer to soccer or know or care.

Sorry, but these carry on the cause for life victim families have always left me rather cold. Perhaps because I work and have always worked, with perpetrators, victims and their families that it just rings so false to me. [/*]

I think it's fair to brand it an escape from dealing with reality in some of these cases, and trust me I DO NOT MEAN ALL CASES.

I believe there are some people who truly have a calling and are capable of turning a tragedy around. But if we digress to the Walmart call Mary contemplated answering because Maria was calling too much and Mary was screening her calls by HER OWN WORDS....

Then we can at least admit she was already bolstering the idea of helping out all the sister marines. :o Not so much from my POV.

This was a wide eyed plan from that day IMO and the pregnancy foiled some of the plan to take this up the ladder. While I know Mary has to be grieving in her own way over the MURDER of her DAUGHTER, it's as tho she is stuck on RAPE ALLEGATIONS that were never proven.

Will she ever accept the idea that her daughter had two reports to the USMC, but only one to Mary from what we have heard out of MARY???

Will she ever accept the idea that Maria had a relationship as alleged by several people now to include Christina who accused her husband of cheating and confronted Maria?

I think she is busy rewriting a life story and she is stuck on that one thing she can't iron out. I continue to hope for the USMC to keep this public and call it like it is no matter what may come out.

JMO based on following this case for months now. :patriot:

I certainly don't want to see the civillian prosecutors hampered too and this time it may be her mother at the helm if it happens.

Again, JMO.:(

[daniel green]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


:biggrin: Oh you know what it's meant on here. [/*]

That CL will be found guilty of a rape he did not commit? :confused:

That one?

[daniel green]

Originally posted by strick10


DG you said it! I am afraid that that is going to be the end result. Though the MC will not release all the information/facts they have regarding Maria so as not to embarass Maria or her family I believe everything is eventually going to come out as Mary and Turner continue to press the issue. If this happens then Mary will have failed her daughter and her daugters memory. [/*]

That's it right there.

The marines have been very good about limiting the information to the public. Why on earth would ML's mother be intent on hitting that hornet's nest? :shrug:

[daniel green]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES



Then we can at least admit she was already bolstering the idea of helping out all the sister marines. :o Not so much from my POV.

snipped.:( [/*]

I agree with your whole post, CK.

But on the above point, not only not so much; in my eyes, not even a little.

It was some backtracking, trayingtovalidatebyenjoining, not very authentic or honest thing. JMO.

[Babes]

Originally posted by daniel green


How is justice served with a false accusation? Or trying to in some way backtrack or join in with other women to make a rape accusation, while patently ridiculous on its own, made stronger?

How is that justice? Let alone "full justice," whatever that means?

(Nevermind how someone finds "justice" in an allegation or court room, but that discussion is for a different place and time)

The rape investigation is over. DONE.

Heck, even the POST review of the rape investigation is over. The marines have reviewed the handling of this case and everything was done according to the rules. Despite the changing accusations, backtracking, date changing and later retractions.

What is the fee/charge for the "rape charges?" How does one pay for that?

Unless she wants her daughter branded more of a liar and a false accuser in death? :eek: [/*]

The thing is false accusation or not - this rape charges cant be proven any longer so moving forward to help other women in the military could be their intention or maybe you are right - just a congressman who wanted some attention but on the other side of it - it is the women in the military who could benefit for this cause. Turner is there temporary but if they will pass a law to make this better then why not. Why wait later. IMO - I am looking at the action as long term help for women in the Military and not just to satisfy Mrs Lauterbach and Mr Turner.

[alter ego]

Originally posted by daniel green


It does seem it bothers the mother a great deal. Especially since they were false. I am getting a whiff of Beth Twitty "my daughter was a spotless virgin" going on here. And that never serves anyone well. In fact, I believe it does the opposite.

I disagree about the rape allegations coming in at trial. If there is a trial, I would think that CL's lawyers would bring it in. They would want to show that ML acccused him falsely and that she then told the marines that he was not the putative father, etc. [/*]
The only reason Cesar's atty's would try to bring in the rape allegations would be to mitigate the charges with that little 'sufficient provocation' clause.

Maria is not on trial. Cesar will be. Maria is the victim. Cesar is the alleged perp. In your quest to support victims, you might want to remember that.

You of all people harping on about someone being less than truthful about a rape. Wow.

Just Wow.

[Babes]

Originally posted by daniel green


Not being snarky here, really. I am asking this most respectfully because I really would like to know.

What is partial justice?

What is full justice?

Does anyone like partial justice?

Thank you. [/*]

For me, partial justice is making one person go to jail while giving another person a free ticket in exchange for their testimony. We see this happening in some trials where some DA is giving immunity to some criminals in exchange for their testimony to put down another criminal. I dont like this. I do believe that a full justice is bringing everyone in jail for a crime they all committed. But this is just my opinion. :)

[Babes]

Originally posted by daniel green


That CL will be found guilty of a rape he did not commit? :confused:

That one? [/*]

Like you - i dont believe there will be a trial for rape on this case - but when i say something like Mary wants someone to pay for the rape charges - i do mean the process the way how the Marines handled the rape charges. They cant prove any rape charges here any longer IMO but the process of handling it and making changes to it is necessary to better protect other women in the Military. If a new law will protect this then for me that's already a fruit that Mrs Lauterbach might be seeking IMO.

[Babes]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


Now that is a very good question Babes, but something tells me they had established codes for free speech when in communication. I guess you could consider such a maneuver as conspiring to avoid being caught up in something that might not look good to LE. Who knows???? barf

I'll be eager to find out when trial time comes on that one.

;) ALL JMO [/*]

Hi Candykisses

I cant wait for the trial - I am expecting too many surprises here :)

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by daniel green


That CL will be found guilty of a rape he did not commit? :confused:

That one? [/*]

No.

[Babes]

Did LE check the ATM transactions on the 14th and 24th and see if there are other transactions being done by another person ? December 24th is a busy day IMO - people are withdrawing money to buy gifts. Is there any withdrawal / deposits done within 5-10 minutes before and after the transactions on Maria's ATM card?

[alter ego]

Originally posted by Babes
Did LE check the ATM transactions on the 14th and 24th and see if there are other transactions being done by another person ? December 24th is a busy day IMO - people are withdrawing money to buy gifts. Is there any withdrawal / deposits done within 5-10 minutes before and after the transactions on Maria's ATM card? [/*]What could they determine with that info?

[Babes]

Originally posted by alter ego
What could they determine with that info? [/*]

They could possibly find a witness who saw this and that - or maybe if ( sample only ) one of CL's friend withdraw money after 3 minute Maria checked her ATM on the 14th then they have to question that friend. IMO.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by Babes


Hi Candykisses

I cant wait for the trial - I am expecting too many surprises here :) [/*]

Me too babes. I will be following this one with due diligence.

JMO. :seeya:

[Babes]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


Me too babes. I will be following this one with due diligence.

JMO. :seeya: [/*]

LOL you think we are going to a crow feast?

Here is the proposed Menu ( feel free to add more ) :
Smothered Crow
Crow Casserole
Summer Crow Kabobs
Pan Fried Crow
BBQ Crow
Crow Bean Roast

Dessert: Crow's Nest Pudding

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by Babes


LOL you think we are going to a crow feast?

Here is the proposed Menu ( feel free to add more ) :
Smothered Crow
Crow Casserole
Summer Crow Kabobs
Pan Fried Crow
BBQ Crow
Crow Bean Roast

Dessert: Crow's Nest Pudding [/*]

I can't think of better company. But I am wishing they would release the search warrants and whatever else will go public soon. :)

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


I think it's fair to brand it an escape from dealing with reality in some of these cases, and trust me I DO NOT MEAN ALL CASES.

I believe there are some people who truly have a calling and are capable of turning a tragedy around. But if we digress to the Walmart call Mary contemplated answering because Maria was calling too much and Mary was screening her calls by HER OWN WORDS....

Then we can at least admit she was already bolstering the idea of helping out all the sister marines. :o Not so much from my POV.

This was a wide eyed plan from that day IMO and the pregnancy foiled some of the plan to take this up the ladder. While I know Mary has to be grieving in her own way over the MURDER of her DAUGHTER, it's as tho she is stuck on RAPE ALLEGATIONS that were never proven.

Will she ever accept the idea that her daughter had two reports to the USMC, but only one to Mary from what we have heard out of MARY???

Will she ever accept the idea that Maria had a relationship as alleged by several people now to include Christina who accused her husband of cheating and confronted Maria?

I think she is busy rewriting a life story and she is stuck on that one thing she can't iron out. I continue to hope for the USMC to keep this public and call it like it is no matter what may come out.

JMO based on following this case for months now. :patriot:

I certainly don't want to see the civillian prosecutors hampered too and this time it may be her mother at the helm if it happens.

Again, JMO.:( [/*]

Not snipped 'cuz I don't know which words I would remove.

ITA, CK. I was shocked at some of the things Mary was quoted as saying as this story was coming to the forefront, then fell back a bit and wondered just how much of her "quotes" were taken out of context.

But this campaign to uncover what sounds like what they believe to be a conspiracy in terms of the rape allegations confuses me, too. Well, except for the part where Turner is going to exploit the victims and situation for his own political benefit.

What benefit is there for Mary? Is it just a mother's fight for justice as she perceives it for rape victims in the military? Or an attempt to assuage any guilt she may have regarding her words about Maria? Or denial of the situation that Maria may have created by making a false allegation (if that's what she did)?

JMO.

[Babes]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


I can't think of better company. But I am wishing they would release the search warrants and whatever else will go public soon. :) [/*]

We are still waiting for that 200 pages document. :)

[daniel green]

Originally posted by Babes


The thing is false accusation or not - this rape charges cant be proven any longer so moving forward to help other women in the military could be their intention or maybe you are right - just a congressman who wanted some attention but on the other side of it - it is the women in the military who could benefit for this cause. Turner is there temporary but if they will pass a law to make this better then why not. Why wait later. IMO - I am looking at the action as long term help for women in the Military and not just to satisfy Mrs Lauterbach and Mr Turner. [/*]

This has nothing to do with anyone else's cases.

Nothing to do with long term help for women in the military.

Do you believe that the military does not provide adequate help for its members?

[daniel green]

Originally posted by Babes


For me, partial justice is making one person go to jail while giving another person a free ticket in exchange for their testimony. snipped [/*]

AHHHHHHHHHH. Gotcha. You are referring to Mrs L.

I thought you were talking about having "justice" for the rape.

I am confused, I guess. Since your post was about ML's mother wanting "full justice." :shrug:

[daniel green]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


No. [/*]

:punch: to me on that one.

I am sooooooo outta the loop here.

[Babes]

Originally posted by daniel green


This has nothing to do with anyone else's cases.

Nothing to do with long term help for women in the military.

Do you believe that the military does not provide adequate help for its members? [/*]

Have you seen some post and stories of some women who brought rape charges to their "superiors" in the Military? If the Military is perfect in handling these cases then we will not see these stories IMO.

What's wrong if the DOD check the process of the Military in handling rape charges?

[daniel green]

Originally posted by Babes


Have you seen some post and stories of some women who brought rape charges to their "superiors" in the Military? If the Military is perfect in handling these cases then we will not see these stories IMO.

What's wrong if the DOD check the process of the Military in handling rape charges? [/*]

Nah, I've passed on those websites. As well as that alleged expert on the subject invited over here by a poster.

I am quite confident that the military handles these cases well and extensively and competently.

However, as this board (as per CW) is not about rape in the military, but about the ML case, I will not speak further to that.

We do know that in this case, with these allegations, the marines acted correctly and investigated fully and provided ML with everything they mandate and have available.

[daniel green]

Originally posted by Marcia3


snipped

What benefit is there for Mary? Is it just a mother's fight for justice as she perceives it for rape victims in the military? Or an attempt to assuage any guilt she may have regarding her words about Maria? Or denial of the situation that Maria may have created by making a false allegation (if that's what she did)?

JMO. [/*]

I think you have posted exactly what ML's mother's benefits are on this.

IMO, her harsh words about her daughter being a compulsive liar and bi-polar fills her with guilt.

[Babes]

Originally posted by daniel green


Nah, I've passed on those websites. As well as that alleged expert on the subject invited over here by a poster.

I am quite confident that the military handles these cases well and extensively and competently.

However, as this board (as per CW) is not about rape in the military, but about the ML case, I will not speak further to that.

We do know that in this case, with these allegations, the marines acted correctly and investigated fully and provided ML with everything they mandate and have available. [/*]

I understand . I cannot say that they mishandle Maria's rape case or not but i would like to see and hear the right process being carried correctly. I have a pretty stepdaughter and she's 12 now and would like to go to the Military when she 's in the right age. I would like the system to be fixed if it is broken and if is not broken then they can find means or ways to improve it.

[strick10]

Originally posted by Babes


I understand . I cannot say that they mishandle Maria's rape case or not but i would like to see and hear the right process being carried correctly. I have a pretty stepdaughter and she's 12 now and would like to go to the Military when she 's in the right age. I would like the system to be fixed if it is broken and if is not broken then they can find means or ways to improve it. [/*]

I understand what you're getting at Babes. If there is something that needs to be added or changed then so be it. The MC as a whole has moved forward in great leaps and bounds on matters of sexual assault through education and through enforcing the regulations that have been set forth. To that I can attest to.

What get's me is that Mary and Turner are trying to blame the MC directly when in fact the DOD and other government entities are the ones that have a hand in writing these types of orders for the MC and other services to follow. That's not to say that the MC doesn't have imput I'm sure they do. It has been proven that CLNC followed the rules and regulations that are formally in place for them to follow. When they don't believe the Commandant that the procedures were followed what does that say? I don't think Mary will ever believe that the regulations were followed regardless of whom does the investigation.

[daniel green]

Originally posted by strick10


snipped

I don't think Mary will ever believe that the regulations were followed regardless of whom does the investigation. [/*]

I agree.

There is no evidence that the system is broken, either, so the whole attempt to try to tie this particular blame game to other people seems very disingenious (sp).

[baywench]

Originally posted by daniel green


I agree.

There is no evidence that the system is broken, either, so the whole attempt to try to tie this particular blame game to other people seems very disingenious (sp). [/*]
.
I am all for improving and monitoring rape in the military if it is needed. I am sure there are some very high profile cases that can be used as the examples of poor procedure. It is, however, ridiculous and (I would imagine) insulting to victims to use a case where there are no rape allegations charged. This doesn't make sense to me. I feel Mary has some deep-seated guilt she's trying to handle by pursuing this cause. Maria was murdered, probably by Lauren, that should be her focus IMO

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by daniel green


I agree with your whole post, CK.

But on the above point, not only not so much; in my eyes, not even a little.

It was some backtracking, trayingtovalidatebyenjoining, not very authentic or honest thing. JMO. [/*]

Yes, the more we see and hear, the more convinced I am that this is cathartic for Mary in dealing with guilt IMO. :(

We all make mistakes and I so hoped she would try to get through it by putting the knowledge gleaned through this tragedy into a better understanding of her other children. Instead we are seeing more denial and rewriting of history from my POV. When I heard her say (paraphrased here) something about Cesar having a problem with perception as she continued to deny a relationship, I couldn't believe my EARS. It was so bizarre to hear her talking about a man she claimed to have never heard a word about other than that he was an alleged rapist. WOW WOW WOW. History took another turn that day for me.

While I have learned that hoping or expecting someone else to behave as I hope they will is fruitless, it doesn't always stop me.

ALL JMO :shrug:

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by Marcia3


Not snipped 'cuz I don't know which words I would remove.

ITA, CK. I was shocked at some of the things Mary was quoted as saying as this story was coming to the forefront, then fell back a bit and wondered just how much of her "quotes" were taken out of context.

But this campaign to uncover what sounds like what they believe to be a conspiracy in terms of the rape allegations confuses me, too. Well, except for the part where Turner is going to exploit the victims and situation for his own political benefit.

What benefit is there for Mary? Is it just a mother's fight for justice as she perceives it for rape victims in the military? Or an attempt to assuage any guilt she may have regarding her words about Maria? Or denial of the situation that Maria may have created by making a false allegation (if that's what she did)?

JMO. [/*]

I am sadly repulsed to think Congressman Turner is going to use a case like this to save his own hide in OH by using the family, the military and a nation IMO.

I can't believe this is the only case he could take issue with since by all standards we've seen they followed procedure. So as a member of the ARMED FORCES COMMITTEE, why not use a case that had KNOWN MISTAKES where TWO PEOPLE CAN (or choose not to) speak out about it?

The idea that he would be going to such lengths on a case where an ALLEGED VICTIM would not be able to speak about what happened, AND WHERE THE POSSIBILITY EXISTS that it could compromise a MURDER TRIAL is not a good sign from my POV.

I strongly feel Mary may be using this platform to absolve herself of guilt about things she said early on, but we continue to see everything changing right in front of our eyes IMHO.

ALL JMO. :seeya:

[baywench]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


I am sadly repulsed to think Congressman Turner is going to use a case like this to save his own hide in OH by using the family, the military and a nation IMO.

I can't believe this is the only case he could take issue with since by all standards we've seen they followed procedure. So as a member of the ARMED FORCES COMMITTEE, why not use a case that had KNOWN MISTAKES where TWO PEOPLE CAN (or choose not to) speak out about it?

The idea that he would be going to such lengths on a case where an ALLEGED VICTIM would not be able to speak about what happened, AND WHERE THE POSSIBILITY EXISTS that it could compromise a MURDER TRIAL is not a good sign from my POV.

I strongly feel Mary may be using this platform to absolve herself of guilt about things she said early on, but we continue to see everything changing right in front of our eyes IMHO.

ALL JMO. :seeya: [/*]

You said that so well CK....

[alter ego]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


I am sadly repulsed to think Congressman Turner is going to use a case like this to save his own hide in OH by using the family, the military and a nation IMO.

I can't believe this is the only case he could take issue with since by all standards we've seen they followed procedure. So as a member of the ARMED FORCES COMMITTEE, why not use a case that had KNOWN MISTAKES where TWO PEOPLE CAN (or choose not to) speak out about it?

The idea that he would be going to such lengths on a case where an ALLEGED VICTIM would not be able to speak about what happened, AND WHERE THE POSSIBILITY EXISTS that it could compromise a MURDER TRIAL is not a good sign from my POV.

I strongly feel Mary may be using this platform to absolve herself of guilt about things she said early on, but we continue to see everything changing right in front of our eyes IMHO.

ALL JMO. :seeya: [/*]
Candy, how could an inquiry into the MCs handling of the rape allegations compromise the murder case?

[sunstar]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


I am sadly repulsed to think Congressman Turner is going to use a case like this to save his own hide in OH by using the family, the military and a nation IMO.

I can't believe this is the only case he could take issue with since by all standards we've seen they followed procedure. So as a member of the ARMED FORCES COMMITTEE, why not use a case that had KNOWN MISTAKES where TWO PEOPLE CAN (or choose not to) speak out about it?

The idea that he would be going to such lengths on a case where an ALLEGED VICTIM would not be able to speak about what happened, AND WHERE THE POSSIBILITY EXISTS that it could compromise a MURDER TRIAL is not a good sign from my POV.

I strongly feel Mary may be using this platform to absolve herself of guilt about things she said early on, but we continue to see everything changing right in front of our eyes IMHO.

ALL JMO. :seeya: [/*]
Excellent post, CK :seeya: I agree this seems to be the wrong case for him to address, and would like to see someone on the Armed Forces Committee explain why convicted felons (including sex crimes and manslaughter) into the military?

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jhDnoNMdMZSJBJlw1YFK-*4TxgywD906FEQO0

It seems this would be a more relevant topic, imo.

[hinman]

Originally posted by alter ego

Candy, how could an inquiry into the MCs handling of the rape allegations compromise the murder case? [/*]I wonder the same thing. I really do not see the big deal in this.

As long as the Marine Corps is doing everything possible to keep alleged rape victims safe then they have nothing to worry about.

Heck this could even benefit them by putting all rumors of the military being lax in this area out. So I am not so sure what the big deal is over this or what the harm is.

[baywench]

Originally posted by hinman
I wonder the same thing. I really do not see the big deal in this.

As long as the Marine Corps is doing everything possible to keep alleged rape victims safe then they have nothing to worry about.

Heck this could even benefit them by putting all rumors of the military being lax in this area out. So I am not so sure what the big deal is over this or what the harm is. [/*]

My problem with it Hinman is the perception that by using this case they are intimating the Marines did not handle it properly. It has been shown, I believe, that they did considering the unusual circumstances. If they needed a "poster child" case i just don't think this is the one. IMO

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by baywench


My problem with it Hinman is the perception that by using this case they are intimating the Marines did not handle it properly. It has been shown, I believe, that they did considering the unusual circumstances. If they needed a "poster child" case i just don't think this is the one. IMO [/*]

ITA on that baywench.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by alter ego

Candy, how could an inquiry into the MCs handling of the rape allegations compromise the murder case? [/*]

I don't think it's prudent as they have a murder trial coming up. How can this benefit anyone at this point? The person making the accusations isn't able to make testimony herself and we have seen they followed the current protocol IMO.

I think a defense attorney will be able to use it to show prejudicial inferences given at a congressional level and the fact remains that their client was never charged. So already you would have a possible tained jury pool and it wouldn't be limited to one area either from my POV.

With the current knowledge out there, this case looks quite possibly to be a love triangle that went bad as opposed to a rape case IMO. Over a month to report, two rape allegations that later went to one, but only telling her outcry witness (Mary in my estimation) of ONE are just the beginning, so I think a defense attorney would be able to show a pre-conceived prejudice.

Do you think Turner couldn't find another case that has a LIVE ALLEGED VICTIM?

If they are simply trying to get policy change, there shouldn't be an immediate need for a review of this case IMO. :seeya:

[hinman]

Originally posted by baywench


My problem with it Hinman is the perception that by using this case they are intimating the Marines did not handle it properly. It has been shown, I believe, that they did considering the unusual circumstances. If they needed a "poster child" case i just don't think this is the one. IMO [/*]I agree with that Bay but see I don't think they should wait for a case to fail to see if there are any loop holes are problems in there procedures.

I feel the military did do everything possible don't get me wrong. I agree that it has been shown, so let the congressmen make a full of himself. What is it going to hurt. I don't see how the military is going to get hurt by this. That is my point.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by baywench


My problem with it Hinman is the perception that by using this case they are intimating the Marines did not handle it properly. It has been shown, I believe, that they did considering the unusual circumstances. If they needed a "poster child" case i just don't think this is the one. IMO [/*]

Yes ITA bay.

jmoo

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by hinman
I agree with that Bay but see I don't think they should wait for a case to fail to see if there are any loop holes are problems in there procedures.

I feel the military did do everything possible don't get me wrong. I agree that it has been shown, so let the congressmen make a full of himself. What is it going to hurt. I don't see how the military is going to get hurt by this. That is my point. [/*]

OMG, I guess you missed it when the woman who leads the charge on MST posted here hinman. She made all kinds of claims about how women are treated.

I'd like to see Congressman Turner take her to the meeting with his nineteen buddies. :o Now she could school them according to what she was claiming.

She had live women who could answer questions about their claims. She also told us they begged to be heard and to get help. Why wasn't Turner listening then?

JMO tho.

[alter ego]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


I don't think it's prudent as they have a murder trial coming up. How can this benefit anyone at this point? The person making the accusations isn't able to make testimony herself and we have seen they followed the current protocol IMO.

I think a defense attorney will be able to use it to show prejudicial inferences given at a congressional level and the fact remains that their client was never charged. So already you would have a possible tained jury pool and it wouldn't be limited to one area either from my POV.

With the current knowledge out there, this case looks quite possibly to be a love triangle that went bad as opposed to a rape case IMO. Over a month to report, two rape allegations that later went to one, but only telling her outcry witness (Mary in my estimation) of ONE are just the beginning, so I think a defense attorney would be able to show a pre-conceived prejudice.

Do you think Turner couldn't find another case that has a LIVE ALLEGED VICTIM?

If they are simply trying to get policy change, there shouldn't be an immediate need for a review of this case IMO. :seeya: [/*]

Because the murder charges and the inquest in the military handling of the rape allegations are two seperate cases. They involve the same players to an extent, but are seperate.

If the defense wants to use media exposure to argue COV, then that is their duty and right.

Since the one that made the allegation in this case ended up dead, Turner is using that to lodge his own allegations that the military didn't do all it could to protect Maria. I just don't see how his "cause" will adversely affect the murder case.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


I don't think it's prudent as they have a murder trial coming up. How can this benefit anyone at this point? The person making the accusations isn't able to make testimony herself and we have seen they followed the current protocol IMO.

I think a defense attorney will be able to use it to show prejudicial inferences given at a congressional level and the fact remains that their client was never charged. So already you would have a possible tainted jury pool and it wouldn't be limited to one area either from my POV.

With the current knowledge out there, this case looks quite possibly to be a love triangle that went bad as opposed to a rape case IMO. Over a month to report, two rape allegations that later went to one, but only telling her outcry witness (Mary in my estimation) of ONE are just the beginning, so I think a defense attorney would be able to show a pre-conceived prejudice.

Do you think Turner couldn't find another case that has a LIVE ALLEGED VICTIM?

If they are simply trying to get policy change, there shouldn't be an immediate need for a review of this case IMO. :seeya: [/*]

I must agree with you on this Candy. Many times it is not necessarily what is done but how it is perceived. First and foremost there has not even been a definitive answer if this was indeed rape or not. With a case being so iffy and plagued with so many muddy areas as to what really transpired I think it is highly prejudicial and totally unfair to give weight to the rape allegation when charges have not even commenced against a defendant who is now going to be on trial for murder. It is underhanded and double dipping imo and done without substantiation.

I think that OCSD/MC have only talked in generalities to the Lauterbachs and there is much still they are not aware of.......that is normal procedure for LE, they will not divulge the evidence not even with the family members although they will talk to them peripherally and give them assurances that they are working tirelessly on the case and making progress.

It would be nice if we could separate these two issues to insure Laurean would get a fair trial but imo that is not going to happen. By it being publicized then just by the hearings alone it is like they have already deemed him guilty of rape and that mindset can very easily taint the jury pool.

I was under the impression that Congress is the ones that must oversee these procedures and guidelines for the DOD. Is Turner saying that they too failed to do their part? It certainly wasn't the Commander at Camp Lg. that wrote the procedures but much higher ups and imo the procedures were in place and done accordingly. I don't know what else they could have done. No one in a million years could have guessed Maria would go to Cesar's home.

To me it smacks of trying to stack the deck and pretend that rape allegations were true and proven whether they have been tried and tested in a court of law or not.

More trying to re-write history, perhaps?

imoo

[baywench]

Originally posted by hinman
I agree with that Bay but see I don't think they should wait for a case to fail to see if there are any loop holes are problems in there procedures.

I feel the military did do everything possible don't get me wrong. I agree that it has been shown, so let the congressmen make a full of himself. What is it going to hurt. I don't see how the military is going to get hurt by this. That is my point. [/*]

Oh I see....OK Gotcha!

[baywench]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I must agree with you on this Candy. Many times it is not necessarily what is done but how it is perceived. First and foremost there has not even been a definitive answer if this was indeed rape or not. With a case being so iffy and plagued with so many muddy areas as to what really transpired I think it is highly prejudicial and totally unfair to give weight to the rape allegation when charges have not even commenced against a defendant who is now going to be on trial for murder. It is underhanded and double dipping imo and done without substantiation.

I think that OCSD/MC have only talked in generalities to the Lauterbachs and there is much still they are not aware of.......that is normal procedure for LE, they will not divulge the evidence not even with the family members although they will talk to them peripherally and give them assurances that they are working tirelessly on the case and making progress.

It would be nice if we could separate these two issues to insure Laurean would get a fair trial but imo that is not going to happen. By it being publicized then just by the hearings alone it is like they have already deemed him guilty of rape and that mindset can very easily taint the jury pool.

I was under the impression that Congress is the ones that must oversee these procedures and guidelines for the DOD. Is Turner saying that they too failed to do their part? It certainly wasn't the Commander at Camp Lg. that wrote the procedures but much higher ups and imo the procedures were in place and done accordingly. I don't know what else they could have done. No one in a million years could have guessed Maria would go to Cesar's home.

To me it smacks of trying to stack the deck and pretend that rape allegations were true and proven whether they have been tried and tested in a court of law or not.

More trying to re-write history, perhaps?

imoo [/*]

great post GB. ITA. It's unecessary pile-on to no good end. JMO

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by hinman
I wonder the same thing. I really do not see the big deal in this.

As long as the Marine Corps is doing everything possible to keep alleged rape victims safe then they have nothing to worry about.

Heck this could even benefit them by putting all rumors of the military being lax in this area out. So I am not so sure what the big deal is over this or what the harm is. [/*]

IMO Hinman it is wrong because Turner is inferring that the Marine Corps did something wrong as he has been doing since he came out even before he got the answers he didn't like. I think he is doing this to help himself. Just like we see politicians that never on a daily basis come up with laws on their own to protect our children but just let some poor little child be murdered and raped and it becomes a high profile case........all of a sudden they jump all over the opportunity because of the notoriety.

If he has taken the time to read the actual guidelines and procedures they had to follow he would already know they followed protocol.

imoo

[daniel green]

Originally posted by baywench


My problem with it Hinman is the perception that by using this case they are intimating the Marines did not handle it properly. It has been shown, I believe, that they did considering the unusual circumstances. If they needed a "poster child" case i just don't think this is the one. IMO [/*]

Oh man do I ever agree with you here.

This is just the absolutely wrong case.

[mini-me]

I just read on onslowcrime that Maria bought the bus ticket for Dec 15 to leave at 10:05 am. Don't know how supply a link for you.Can someone do that. TIA

[Hedda Lettis]

Originally posted by mini-me
I just read on onslowcrime that Maria bought the bus ticket for Dec 15 to leave at 10:05 am. Don't know how supply a link for you.Can someone do that. TIA [/*]

Here you are, mini-me. Thanks for finding this. Wow, it makes everything clear as mud, doesn't it?

Maria left the note for her roommate, DD, on the 14th, and she planned to leave on the morning of the 15th.

Where was she going to spend the evening of the 14th?

[martha]

This makes no sen where was she going to stay that night at? CL said in his note she came to his house wanting money. but she had money of her own. Boy this case is so strange.none of it makes any sen to me:rose:

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


I am sadly repulsed to think Congressman Turner is going to use a case like this to save his own hide in OH by using the family, the military and a nation IMO.

I can't believe this is the only case he could take issue with since by all standards we've seen they followed procedure. So as a member of the ARMED FORCES COMMITTEE, why not use a case that had KNOWN MISTAKES where TWO PEOPLE CAN (or choose not to) speak out about it?

The idea that he would be going to such lengths on a case where an ALLEGED VICTIM would not be able to speak about what happened, AND WHERE THE POSSIBILITY EXISTS that it could compromise a MURDER TRIAL is not a good sign from my POV.

I strongly feel Mary may be using this platform to absolve herself of guilt about things she said early on, but we continue to see everything changing right in front of our eyes IMHO.

ALL JMO. :seeya: [/*]

Precisely my problem with this whole scenario. That's it in a nutshell for me.

JMO of course.

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


IMO Hinman it is wrong because Turner is inferring that the Marine Corps did something wrong as he has been doing since he came out even before he got the answers he didn't like. I think he is doing this to help himself. Just like we see politicians that never on a daily basis come up with laws on their own to protect our children but just let some poor little child be murdered and raped and it becomes a high profile case........all of a sudden they jump all over the opportunity because of the notoriety.

If he has taken the time to read the actual guidelines and procedures they had to follow he would already know they followed protocol.

imoo [/*]

Yep, yep, and yep. IOW, ITA.

:seeya:

[Cardinal]

Good morning, everyone. :seeya:

I was going to quote CK's post, then GB's, then bay's......well, you get it. :D Nice to see you all, and some very well-thought-out posts this morning.

[martha]

GOOD MORNING EVERYONE HOPE YOU ALL HAVE A GOOD DAY. I guess there is no news today or everyone is sleeping in lol jk I will be checking back every little bit to see if anything new comes up today. :rose:

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I must agree with you on this Candy. Many times it is not necessarily what is done but how it is perceived. First and foremost there has not even been a definitive answer if this was indeed rape or not. With a case being so iffy and plagued with so many muddy areas as to what really transpired I think it is highly prejudicial and totally unfair to give weight to the rape allegation when charges have not even commenced against a defendant who is now going to be on trial for murder. It is underhanded and double dipping imo and done without substantiation.

I think that OCSD/MC have only talked in generalities to the Lauterbachs and there is much still they are not aware of.......that is normal procedure for LE, they will not divulge the evidence not even with the family members although they will talk to them peripherally and give them assurances that they are working tirelessly on the case and making progress.

It would be nice if we could separate these two issues to insure Laurean would get a fair trial but imo that is not going to happen. By it being publicized then just by the hearings alone it is like they have already deemed him guilty of rape and that mindset can very easily taint the jury pool.

I was under the impression that Congress is the ones that must oversee these procedures and guidelines for the DOD. Is Turner saying that they too failed to do their part? It certainly wasn't the Commander at Camp Lg. that wrote the procedures but much higher ups and imo the procedures were in place and done accordingly. I don't know what else they could have done. No one in a million years could have guessed Maria would go to Cesar's home.

To me it smacks of trying to stack the deck and pretend that rape allegations were true and proven whether they have been tried and tested in a court of law or not.

More trying to re-write history, perhaps?

imoo [/*]

You have outlined much of what concerns me too GB. I hate to think of another trial like that of Bonnie, Robert Blake's wife. There wasn't a credible witness in the bunch and too much publicity out there damning RB IMO.

Yesterday is the first time I saw a judge step up and address the credibility of the witnesses as he announced a verdict. The idea of NOT GUILTY seemed so far removed, he felt it necessary to explain just how he drew that conclusion.

This morning I saw a talking head hitting the high points on that trial and why the defendants in NY chose a judge over a jury and it certainly made sense from the defense's standpoint.

This was the Shawn Bell murder or not.....:( The groom in NYC.

But I was surprised to hear the judge talk to credibility of witnesses and we all have to remember that. Maria had the same issue with the allegations she made of rape and her mother reinforced this when she first went missing IMO.

Now, we are seeing many things that can be used by a decent defense attorney as he/she mounts a vigorous defense for Cesar and I fear this Congressional Hearing will be on the list too and whatever Mary is claiming now will be used too from my POV.

I am truly at a loss for sympathy concerning Mary right now with what we have seen. I wish I could feel it, but it's almost as if she is trying to save her own skin as she re-writes history.

The icing on the cake was listening to that interview last week as she attempted to talk about Cesar's problems with perception when she said she KNEW NOTHING of him OTHER THAN HE WAS AN ATTACKER before.

But now, she knows he has issues with perception but still denies there was a relationship between her daughter and the man she accused of rape. Mary knows she was told of one rape accusation and the date. She is being disingenuous to herself and the memory of her daughter while trying to absolve herself of guilt.

I am truly saddened for Maria and the life she didn't have as well as that of Gabriel.

Now my concerns are more with whether Mary is going to wake up to her other children before time passes her by.

ALL JMO based on months of following this case. :patriot:

[baywench]

Originally posted by martha
This makes no sen where was she going to stay that night at? CL said in his note she came to his house wanting money. but she had money of her own. Boy this case is so strange.none of it makes any sen to me:rose: [/*]


The asking if she could leave the car there overnight ties right in with this. Were would she have been going that she herself would not had to have driven to? How intriguing now that we know for sure when the ticket was for. How reliable is the information? The other site disgusts me so I'm trying not to go there. Run into some strange fowl there I think. We know CSL was at the party, and I am assuming she was going to go home. This leaves me with my (1 of four) theories that they were either 1) going to leave together and stay in a hotel (perhaps the one the underground said they had stayed in? That's sounding more probable now) and CSL caught them getting ready to leave or 2)Maria went back to his house unexpectedly and they fought. Number 2 is less likely to me now 'cos he made a point of saying he helped her buy the bus ticket, I realize he's a POS but if that is true he knew when the bus was leaving. Thank you for tolerating my ramblings and a rather scary walk through my mental exercises! JMO

[baywench]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


You have outlined much of what concerns me too GB. I hate to think of another trial like that of Bonnie, Robert Blake's wife. There wasn't a credible witness in the bunch and too much publicity out there damning RB IMO.

Yesterday is the first time I saw a judge step up and address the credibility of the witnesses as he announced a verdict. The idea of NOT GUILTY seemed so far removed, he felt it necessary to explain just how he drew that conclusion.

This morning I saw a talking head hitting the high points on that trial and why the defendants in NY chose a judge over a jury and it certainly made sense from the defense's standpoint.

This was the Shawn Bell murder or not.....:( The groom in NYC.

But I was surprised to hear the judge talk to credibility of witnesses and we all have to remember that. Maria had the same issue with the allegations she made of rape and her mother reinforced this when she first went missing IMO.

Now, we are seeing many things that can be used by a decent defense attorney as he/she mounts a vigorous defense for Cesar and I fear this Congressional Hearing will be on the list too and whatever Mary is claiming now will be used too from my POV.

I am truly at a loss for sympathy concerning Mary right now with what we have seen. I wish I could feel it, but it's almost as if she is trying to save her own skin as she re-writes history.

The icing on the cake was listening to that interview last week as she attempted to talk about Cesar's problems with perception when she said she KNEW NOTHING of him OTHER THAN HE WAS AN ATTACKER before.

But now, she knows he has issues with perception but still denies there was a relationship between her daughter and the man she accused of rape. Mary knows she was told of one rape accusation and the date. She is being disingenuous to herself and the memory of her daughter while trying to absolve herself of guilt.

I am truly saddened for Maria and the life she didn't have as well as that of Gabriel.

Now my concerns are more with whether Mary is going to wake up to her other children before time passes her by.

ALL JMO based on months of following this case. :patriot: [/*]
I am very sorry Mary lost a daughter but I am beginning to think she is a publicity junkie, like the Mccanns. JMO

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by baywench

I am very sorry Mary lost a daughter but I am beginning to think she is a publicity junkie, like the Mccanns. JMO [/*]
Or Cindy Sheehan

[baywench]

Originally posted by IvySterling

Or Cindy Sheehan [/*]

Oh I hadn't thought of her a long time. I think she is one of the worst. God Bless her son. JMO

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by IvySterling

Or Cindy Sheehan [/*]

barf

(I SELDOM use that little guy but that's my feelings about Cindy Sheehan.)

[baywench]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


barf

(I SELDOM use that little guy but that's my feelings about Cindy Sheehan.) [/*]


Very appropriate use it is too!

[martha]

I think the mother has something wrong with her but can;t put my finger on it. Never in my whole life time would I not take a call from my daughter. she might not want anything or just some little silly thing she wanted to tell me then I would always take her call. Nothing would ever keep me from talking to my daughter unless i was six feet under. I have always told my children when GOD made me a mother he did not make me prefect but I will always be there for them. Even when I think they or in the wrong. no one will stand up for your children so we have to be there for them. no matter what.jmho. I just don;t think ml mother knew what all was going on with her.:rose:

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by IvySterling

Or Cindy Sheehan [/*]

That's the first time I've seen her name in print in quite a while.

(As my grandma used to say, "Don't talk her up" :D )

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by martha
I think the mother has something wrong with her but can;t put my finger on it. Never in my whole life time would I not take a call from my daughter. she might not want anything or just some little silly thing she wanted to tell me then I would always take her call. Nothing would ever keep me from talking to my daughter unless i was six feet under. I have always told my children when GOD made me a mother he did not make me prefect but I will always be there for them. Even when I think they or in the wrong. no one will stand up for your children so we have to be there for them. no matter what.jmho. I just don;t think ml mother knew what all was going on with her.:rose: [/*]

martha you took the words right outta my mouth....er, keyboard.

There is something very irritating about her and I don't know what it is.

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by martha
I think the mother has something wrong with her but can;t put my finger on it. Never in my whole life time would I not take a call from my daughter. she might not want anything or just some little silly thing she wanted to tell me then I would always take her call. Nothing would ever keep me from talking to my daughter unless i was six feet under. I have always told my children when GOD made me a mother he did not make me prefect but I will always be there for them. Even when I think they or in the wrong. no one will stand up for your children so we have to be there for them. no matter what.jmho. I just don;t think ml mother knew what all was going on with her.:rose: [/*]
IMO martha, IF Mary HAD believed everything Maria said from being raped, slugged and car keyed she WOULDN'T have screened the calls.

IMO Mary never believed the stories Maria was telling her.

[martha]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


martha you took the words right outta my mouth....er, keyboard.

There is something very irritating about her and I don't know what it is. [/*] I know I hate to watch her on tv. I just think she;s not telling things the way they really or. This is just my gut feeling and I don;t want to say anything to hurt her but??? One thing I just can;t see how she did not know the name of the one ml was saying raped her. My daughter would have told me or I would have had her head. my daughter knows with out a doubt she would have had to tell me. She knows I would have been there for her. jmho:rose:

[martha]

Originally posted by IvySterling

IMO martha, IF Mary HAD believed everything Maria said from being raped, slugged and car keyed she WOULDN'T have screened the calls.

IMO Mary never believed the stories Maria was telling her. [/*] Yes honey you or so right have you ever heard of a mother screening their daughter calls? I never have and I am old lol I would have been so worried that someone was going to hurt her. ml preg and people treating her like that boy I would have been on a bus or in my car on my way to where she was to see what was going on.:rose: jmho

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by martha
I know I hate to watch her on tv. I just think she;s not telling things the way they really or. This is just my gut feeling and I don;t want to say anything to hurt her but??? One thing I just can;t see how she did not know the name of the one ml was saying raped her. My daughter would have told me or I would have had her head. my daughter knows with out a doubt she would have had to tell me. She knows I would have been there for her. jmho:rose: [/*]
IF what Mary says about telling Maria to report the alleged rape immediately then you can bet she also asked the name of the alleged rapist.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by IvySterling

IF what Mary says about telling Maria to report the alleged rape immediately then you can bet she also asked the name of the alleged rapist. [/*]

I really don't think she knew Cesar's name until the MPO was found. I really don't.

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


I really don't think she knew Cesar's name until the MPO was found. I really don't. [/*]
Really you don't? Well, if she didn't then she's even more disconnected than I thought.

[baywench]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


I really don't think she knew Cesar's name until the MPO was found. I really don't. [/*]

I don't think she did either...I'm not sure Durham did also. JMO

[martha]

Originally posted by IvySterling

Really you don't? Well, if she didn't then she's even more disconnected than I thought. [/*] ITA I think she knew more than she is letting on. I think a lot of people knew what was going on between cl and ml and who ever !!!! They or just not talking right now and may have been told not to talk.by le and mc. I think the MC did what was right in this case no doubt in my mind. If I had let someone move in with me you can be sure I would have known what was going on with her. I think D did know and he may have felt sorry for ml. She was in a mess and he knew that and wanted to be a friend. I would have wanted to help her too. I think ml talked to him about what was going on. I feel so sorry for ml she needed a friend bad. she was in a bad place in her life. she wanted to keep her baby. mother did not want her to do that how sad:rose:

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by baywench


I don't think she did either...I'm not sure Durham did also. JMO [/*]
My guess would be that DD knew CAL's name, and probably so did her sister.

Maria MAY have shared A TON of things with DD, her sister and with others who may have been staying at DD's house at the time.

[martha]

Originally posted by baywench


I don't think she did either...I'm not sure Durham did also. JMO [/*] I don;t know what part Durham played in this but we may be sup when we find out. Is he in nc now ? :rose:

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by IvySterling

My guess would be that DD knew CAL's name, and probably so did her sister.

Maria MAY have shared A TON of things with DD, her sister and with others who may have been staying at DD's house at the time. [/*]

And I bet they're 180 from what Mary was told, or Uncle Peter for that matter.

[martha]

Originally posted by IvySterling

My guess would be that DD knew CAL's name, and probably so did her sister.

Maria MAY have shared A TON of things with DD, her sister and with others who may have been staying at DD's house at the time. [/*] ITA and none of this will if it does then come out until the trial. I don;t have a sister but I think if I had there would have been nothing i would not have shared with her. my older brother and I was very close and he was the only one in my family that cared anything about me and i would have told him anything. all this is jmho :rose:

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


And I bet they're 180 from what Mary was told, or Uncle Peter for that matter. [/*]
Agreed, Maria told Mary & Peter ONLY what they wanted to hear. I have no idea what she told her father in emails, but probably very little about her private life.

[martha]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


And I bet they're 180 from what Mary was told, or Uncle Peter for that matter. [/*] I don;t think uncle peter knows all he sayes he knows about ml. for some reason i don;t think ml told him eveything. ITA with you on the 180 from what she told mary. mary did not want to talk to her all the time and i think ml knew that. jmho :rose:

[martha]

Originally posted by IvySterling

Agreed, Maria told Mary & Peter ONLY what they wanted to hear. I have no idea what she told her father in emails, but probably very little about her private life. [/*] ITA If ml was close to her mother and uncle she would have told them the name of the rapest. imho and even her father would have known his name. does anyone know where ml bio mother and daddy live? what their names or? I have not heard much about them. did ml know who her bio father and mother is?:rose:

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by martha
ITA If ml was close to her mother and uncle she would have told them the name of the rapest. imho and even her father would have known his name. does anyone know where ml bio mother and daddy live? what their names or? I have not heard much about them. did ml know who her bio father and mother is?:rose: [/*]
Since Peter offered up the background of Maria and her sister which was un-necessary IMO I'm thinking the girls knew who their bio parents where/are.

[baywench]

I have always been of thought that DD felt sorry for her because of her pregnancy. It puzzles me that if he knew about CL (and especially his name) that he would caution Mary to wait to report her missing so she wouldn't get in trouble. Just makes no sense that if he knew the whole story he would say that JMO

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by baywench
I have always been of thought that DD felt sorry for her because of her pregnancy. It puzzles me that if he knew about CL (and especially his name) that he would caution Mary to wait to report her missing so she wouldn't get in trouble. Just makes no sense that if he knew the whole story he would say that JMO [/*]
Maybe it was because DD knew Maria and CAL were seeing one another and also that Maria was dis-heartened by the MC as she told her one friend in early December.

Maybe DD thought Maria was just down and would return without the MC knowing.

[baywench]

Originally posted by IvySterling

Maybe it was because DD knew Maria and CAL were seeing one another and also that Maria was dis-heartened by the MC as she told her one friend in early December.

Maybe DD thought Maria was just down and would return without the MC knowing. [/*]

Good point Ivy. There are so many ways to look at this aren't there? Makes me crazy. :cool:

[IvySterling]

I'm thinking any discussion here has died until the SW info. is released.

[baywench]

Originally posted by IvySterling
I'm thinking any discussion here has died until the SW info. is released. [/*]

I guess I'll just sit here on the dock of the bay and wait....

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by baywench


I guess I'll just sit here on the dock of the bay and wait.... [/*]
You and Otis Redding :D

[daniel green]

Originally posted by baywench



The asking if she could leave the car there overnight ties right in with this. Were would she have been going that she herself would not had to have driven to? How intriguing now that we know for sure when the ticket was for.

snipped

[/*]

Uh huh.

It does make it a lot more intriguing.

And that leaving the car there overnight certainly makes more sense now.

[daniel green]

Originally posted by IvySterling

IMO martha, IF Mary HAD believed everything Maria said from being raped, slugged and car keyed she WOULDN'T have screened the calls.

IMO Mary never believed the stories Maria was telling her. [/*]

EXACTLY!

But now it's let's get a lawyer and let's blame the marines. :rolleyes:

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by baywench
I have always been of thought that DD felt sorry for her because of her pregnancy. It puzzles me that if he knew about CL (and especially his name) that he would caution Mary to wait to report her missing so she wouldn't get in trouble. Just makes no sense that if he knew the whole story he would say that JMO [/*]

BINGO BAYWENCH. This says it all IMO.

There was some reason things were anything but as Mary describes them and my guess is due to a relationship with a married man and Maria probably feared Mary's reaction.

JMO tho. :read:

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by IvySterling

Maybe it was because DD knew Maria and CAL were seeing one another and also that Maria was dis-heartened by the MC as she told her one friend in early December.

Maybe DD thought Maria was just down and would return without the MC knowing. [/*]

I can't even begin to imagine how bad he feels about that even tho it wouldn't have changed Maria's fate from what we know.

It's a good thing he and Anne have some kind of relationship to get through the different emotions they will both feel as this moves to a trial and is out there in the public domain a bit more.

JMO again. :patriot:

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by baywench
I have always been of thought that DD felt sorry for her because of her pregnancy. It puzzles me that if he knew about CL (and especially his name) that he would caution Mary to wait to report her missing so she wouldn't get in trouble. Just makes no sense that if he knew the whole story he would say that JMO [/*]

Maybe he did know but felt she may have gone off with CL but thought she would come to her senses and come back before Monday when she had to report for duty. Her UA wouldn't even start until then.

But what is even more interesting. How did DD and Maria get together in the first place? I don't think he has the same MOS as Maria because admin. clerks don't go to TNP to do maneuvers They are both from Ohio so did he perhaps know some of Maria's family and they asked him could she hang out there while he was deployed to Twenty Nine Palms and if that was true then I would think whomever that person was that may have known him beforehand may have told him about Maria's personal and professional problems she was dealing with.

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


BINGO BAYWENCH. This says it all IMO.

There was some reason things were anything but as Mary describes them and my guess is due to a relationship with a married man and Maria probably feared Mary's reaction.

JMO tho. :read: [/*]

I think he knew more than people thinks he did. I also think his laptop that she used will also disclose pertinent things.

imoo

[martha]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


BINGO BAYWENCH. This says it all IMO.

There was some reason things were anything but as Mary describes them and my guess is due to a relationship with a married man and Maria probably feared Mary's reaction.

JMO tho. :read: [/*] ITA I think ml feared her mother reactions to what was going on. I also think ml knew her mother was screening her calls and that would make a child feel like she was not loved. It is awful when you know your mother and daddy don;t care about and will not sup you in what is going on in your life. :rose:

[martha]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I think he knew more than people thinks he did. I also think his laptop that she used will also disclose pertinent things.

imoo [/*] I do too. I don;t think le or the mc will let him do to much talking until the trial. jmoo :rose:

[Pag Boi]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


BINGO BAYWENCH. This says it all IMO.

There was some reason things were anything but as Mary describes them and my guess is due to a relationship with a married man and Maria probably feared Mary's reaction.

JMO tho. [/*]


ITA. I think the reason was because they didn't happen. Why would DD say that to Mary? He reported her on Monday and turned over the note. MC would not have been looking for her on her time off. She wasn't due at work on the 15th or 16th.

Maria isn't the only Lauterbach DD felt sorry for and offered to ease their burdens. A stellar marine and man. JMO tho2.

[IvySterling]

~snipped
Originally posted by Pag Boi
Maria isn't the only Lauterbach DD felt sorry for and offered to ease their burdens. A stellar marine and man. JMO tho2. [/*]
Not understanding the above PB :confused:

[Pag Boi]

Originally posted by IvySterling
~snipped

Not understanding the above PB :confused: [/*]

I don't think DD ever told Mary not to report Maria missing because she might "get in trouble"How would that happen? She wasn't on duty so she wasn't UA as I understand it.

He reported her to MC after she didn't show up for work.

Rather I think Mary said that during a rewrite. Mary probably asked DD what would happen when MC found out......Maria would get in trouble.

I think DD has a lot of guilt himself and seems like a good person. I think he feels very sorry for Maria's family, especially Mary, and sees no reason to correct Mary's version of events. IOW and JMO that DD seems willing to serve Maria's family in whatever way he can. Just as he does for his county.

Are you more or less confused now? :D

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by Pag Boi


I don't think DD ever told Mary not to report Maria missing because she might "get in trouble"How would that happen? She wasn't on duty so she wasn't UA as I understand it.

He reported her to MC after she didn't show up for work.

Rather I think Mary said that during a rewrite. Mary probably asked DD what would happen when MC found out......Maria would get in trouble.

I think DD has a lot of guilt himself and seems like a good person. I think he feels very sorry for Maria's family, especially Mary, and sees no reason to correct Mary's version of events. IOW and JMO that DD seems willing to serve Maria's family in whatever way he can. Just as he does for his county.

Are you more or less confused now? :D [/*]
Got ya! Me no more confused :D

[martha]

I understand ml had a lot going on in her life but if i had been her I would not have moved in the house with someone I did not know really well and I would have wanted him to know what kind of mess my life was at the time so if anything happened he would understand why. Do you think if they or anyone was treating her bad that dd would have known that??? I just wonder if dd knew ml before any of this happened. Maybe he is a friend of the family??? there is just so much that none of us know. I just wish these kids and I do mean kids had worked something out before this awful thing happened. this is such a sad case all the way around. my heart goes out to them all both sides of the case. I hope one day we will know the truth but we may never know really what happened. I don;t understand cl saying he loved her because he knew his wife would hear that. I love all the people in the mc and just can;t understand how this happened.LOVE can make anyone do strange things. jmho:rose:

[martha]

Good night my friends may the love of GOD keep you safe until tomorrow and everyday there after. see you all tomorrow.:rose:

[martha]

GOOD MORNING EVERYONE I guess everyone is sleeping in ha jk someone please keep posting so this board will not get closed. I just know we will get some news soon to talk about. I hope they bring cl home soon. Is there any chance they will not have a trial? :rose:

[henry]

good morning martha . . . you're not alone! just waiting for some facts to discuss, but i read here every day.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by martha
GOOD MORNING EVERYONE I guess everyone is sleeping in ha jk someone please keep posting so this board will not get closed. I just know we will get some news soon to talk about. I hope they bring cl home soon. Is there any chance they will not have a trial? :rose: [/*]

good morning, Martha. I personally think either Durham was a family friend, or a friend of a friend in Ohio, or maybe someone recommended him as a possible housing source - either in Ohio or NC. Or for that matter, he could have just placed an ad in the paper/online and ML responded. But because her uncle said something like he offered her housing because he was concerned about her situation, I tend to think it wasn't just an ad placed in the paper.

jmo

[martha]

Originally posted by henry
good morning martha . . . you're not alone! just waiting for some facts to discuss, but i read here every day. [/*]HI Henry I am glad you or here I enjoy your post. good morning to you and you have a good day. :rose:

[martha]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


good morning, Martha. I personally think either Durham was a family friend, or a friend of a friend in Ohio, or maybe someone recommended him as a possible housing source - either in Ohio or NC. Or for that matter, he could have just placed an ad in the paper/online and ML responded. But because her uncle said something like he offered her housing because he was concerned about her situation, I tend to think it wasn't just an ad placed in the paper.

jmo [/*]Hi gaelicpeas, I don;t think it was just a paper ad I think he knew her situation and really wanted to help her. I think he was trying to be a good friend to ml. I think he knows a lot but the mc and le is not letting him do much talking right now. maybe later we will hear from him more. I think there was a lot more going on in this case than we know yet.jmho have a good day:rose:

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


martha you took the words right outta my mouth....er, keyboard.

There is something very irritating about her and I don't know what it is. [/*]

Good morning peeps! :rose:

Cryme, I have even considered that maybe the things she was projecting on Maria were actually things she could be dealing with. It just saddens me to think she is more concerned about cleaning up her mistakes than anything else at this time. I hope I am wrong. This is one crow pie I would dive into.


JMO

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by IvySterling

IMO martha, IF Mary HAD believed everything Maria said from being raped, slugged and car keyed she WOULDN'T have screened the calls.

IMO Mary never believed the stories Maria was telling her. [/*]

IVY, in all fairness to Mary, SHE WAS SCREENING BEFORE she was given the news. That scares me even more, because IMO she knew this wasn't turning out to be a good fit for Maria IF MARIA was needing to call home that often. That's just my take on it tho.

I think we have to take what some of the friends from Jessica, to Mrs. Renner to Melinda Artzer to Lisa had to say about her in an effort to get any idea of what was going on with Maria. At best it would appear she was telling mom one thing and the USMC another. Her stories to her friends seem to be more consistent with what she was telling the USMC and mom is out there in left field IMO.

The truth will emerge as everyone continues to seek justice for Maria and Gabriel IMHO. :rose:

[martha]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


Good morning peeps! :rose:

Cryme, I have even considered that maybe the things she was projecting on Maria were actually things she could be dealing with. It just saddens me to think she is more concerned about cleaning up her mistakes than anything else at this time. I hope I am wrong. This is one crow pie I would dive into.


JMO [/*]good morning candykisses I think you or right about thing mary is dealing with. I will help you eat the pie if I am wrong. For some reason I think mary has a very deep prob. maybe she took on to much when she adop. those children. hope i am wrong. just wondering as always.:rose:

[daniel green]

Originally posted by Pag Boi


I don't think DD ever told Mary not to report Maria missing because she might "get in trouble"How would that happen? She wasn't on duty so she wasn't UA as I understand it.

He reported her to MC after she didn't show up for work.

Rather I think Mary said that during a rewrite. Mary probably asked DD what would happen when MC found out......Maria would get in trouble.

snipped [/*]

Good afternoon, Pag boi.

Excellent point.

I agree that it is another of Mary's "misremembering" or re-writes.

To explain her not filing a missing person's report for so long.

[chance]

I was reading over at OTC and this was just posted.

Maria's bus ticket purchase Info.

http://onslowcrime.encblogs.com/?p=160

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by chance
I was reading over at OTC and this was just posted.

Maria's bus ticket purchase Info.

http://onslowcrime.encblogs.com/?p=160 [/*]

Hi Chance, I understand the reporters from JDN are doing their own investigation and it's certainly spicing up a dry time for any NEW NEWS, that's for sure.

I thought the first assertion was that she bought a 10AM ticket for Saturday. So now it was 550PM and with a military ID for the discount....hmmm....

This would put a serious krimp in her time allowance given she already left a note for Dan Durham, no?

There had to be a plan and I continue to wonder if there was an UNCONFIRMED reservation at that hotel we read about early on on the base site.

I've heard the Inn was checked out and wonder how far it is from Laureans house or if there were any searches? Where would Maria have planned on staying until Saturday?

Did we ever know for sure whether Christina going to the party was a PLAN? Could she have been there to check up on Cesar?

The only things I remember hearing early on in the case were saying that she went to his Christmas party and he did not. VERY UNUSUAL for any military gathering IMO. :confused:

I dunno, more twists and turns coming is what I fear most.

JMO tho. :patriot:

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by martha
good morning candykisses I think you or right about thing mary is dealing with. I will help you eat the pie if I am wrong. For some reason I think mary has a very deep prob. maybe she took on to much when she adop. those children. hope i am wrong. just wondering as always.:rose: [/*]

Martha, good day to you! You have such a kind soul and at the same time can use the wisdom you have garnered through your years to see what some of us just can't IMO. :rose:

Mary is a study within a study as she moves through this tragedy and as always I pray she is strengthened by her family and her faith. I hope she is seeking therapy as well. It's going to take much strength to face the road ahead from my POV.

JMO.

[martha]

Oh candy you or so right Mary needs all the help she can get. I hope and pray I never face anything like this. My daughter is 48 so she done set in her life but I have 2 grandaughters and 2 grandsons that anything could happen with them because they or so very young. I try to tell them there is nothing so bad that they can;t come to me or their mother and daddy. I always want the lines open between them and me so they will know I will stand up for them no matter how bad it could get. Everything is great with them now but we never know what young people will do. old people too.ha I think LOVE puts people in a blind place in their lives. If you love someone enough you will do almost anything for that person. Maybe ml and cl thought they were in love? could have been cl loved ml and she had someone elce she was covering for? this is just questions not facts just guessing again. Please no one get mad at me for guessing. jmho:rose:

[martha]

Candy honey do you think maybe Mary is bipolar? I just think something is going on with her and i can;t understand some of the things she does and sayes. I know she is in a bad place in her life right now but, she seems so very strange in ways. I know I need to pray for her and not judge her so if she reads these post I want her to know she is in my prayers. GOD is the only one that can help her now. He can give her some peace. Was DD higher up in the mc than ml or cl? I don;t know anything about the mc or the law but I do know ml needed someone help and a good friend long before dec 14 2007 and it is so sad that she had to end up like this ended. I still want who ever is behind the death of ml and her baby punished.as everyone elce does:rose:

[chance]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


Hi Chance, I understand the reporters from JDN are doing their own investigation and it's certainly spicing up a dry time for any NEW NEWS, that's for sure.

I thought the first assertion was that she bought a 10AM ticket for Saturday. So now it was 550PM and with a military ID for the discount....hmmm....

This would put a serious krimp in her time allowance given she already left a note for Dan Durham, no?

There had to be a plan and I continue to wonder if there was an UNCONFIRMED reservation at that hotel we read about early on on the base site.

I've heard the Inn was checked out and wonder how far it is from Laureans house or if there were any searches? Where would Maria have planned on staying until Saturday?

Did we ever know for sure whether Christina going to the party was a PLAN? Could she have been there to check up on Cesar?

The only things I remember hearing early on in the case were saying that she went to his Christmas party and he did not. VERY UNUSUAL for any military gathering IMO. :confused:

I dunno, more twists and turns coming is what I fear most.

JMO tho. :patriot: [/*]

Hello

It clears up the fact that someone else purchased the bus ticket. Because in order to get the military discount she would have had to use her military ID.

Also that the bus for the Friday evening departure to El Paso was not full. So I guess the theroy of her plans of leaving Friday fell through and she returned to CLs to tell him, can be disregarded too.

But I think that the mention on the marine site about the hotel might have some truth to it after all.

I have wondered sometimes if CL told CSL not to come to the party as it would be boring and no fun for her and she showed up anyway to see if he would be there with Maria.And he was nowhere in site and neither was Maria. This could be the reason she was there alone.

I dunno either.
The answers too all of this won't come soon enough for me though.

moo

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by martha
Candy honey do you think maybe Mary is bipolar? I just think something is going on with her and i can;t understand some of the things she does and sayes. I know she is in a bad place in her life right now but, she seems so very strange in ways. I know I need to pray for her and not judge her so if she reads these post I want her to know she is in my prayers. GOD is the only one that can help her now. He can give her some peace. Was DD higher up in the mc than ml or cl? I don;t know anything about the mc or the law but I do know ml needed someone help and a good friend long before dec 14 2007 and it is so sad that she had to end up like this ended. I still want who ever is behind the death of ml and her baby punished.as everyone elce does:rose: [/*]

Martha, I would never come right out and say that not really knowing Mary and only seeing her in some of the situations we have been privvy to. But I would say impulsive could have been the word she was looking for when she was describing Maria at first. Yet she continued with that for some time IMO and was still stating she thought Maria was bipolar on the youtube video with Dan Abrams.

The last video I watched with her and the attorney she has chosen was a little more telling about Mary's behavior. It was the best twelve minutes of Mary I have seen in this tragedy. She seemed to be in her element as she was weaving a story we had not heard yet with subtle changes and even going as far as to project problems with perception on Cesar. We have to remember she has claimed she only knew him to be called the attacker, yet now she knows he has issues with perception.

One other thing I noticed in that video was that MW (the attorney) kind of SEEMED TO KNOW when to interject himself and answer for her IMHO. Maybe he sees where some of this will be problematic too. I don't know that tho, just human observation.

She continues to surprise me each time I see and hear her speak with the animations and changing story. I just don't know where it comes from, but I still hope she will seek therapy.

I can't remember Dan's rank off the top of my head but for some reason I think he was maybe the same rank as Cesar. I continue to hope and pray for the truth to come out and justice to prevail for Maria and Gabriel with all parties involved being brought to justice.

JMO THO. :rose:

[Ionmhainn]

This discussion about Mary Lauterbach really disturbs me. She has just lost a daughter in a most horrific way, and I just can't see judging her in any way right now. She is still "reeling" and her emotions are, quite naturally, all over the place. She is flailing for a way to fnd acceptance, and driven by a need to "do something." I totally understand that whoever Mary used to be is forever changed. It's not at all unusual, in the initial stages of grief...and let's remember it has only been a few months...to look for somebody, or something, to "blame." In my opinion, she is trying to find some way to come to terms with what has happened, perhaps feeling that, "when all is said and done," the pain will be unbearable.
IMO

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by Ionmhainn
This discussion about Mary Lauterbach really disturbs me. She has just lost a daughter in a most horrific way, and I just can't see judging her in any way right now. She is still "reeling" and her emotions are, quite naturally, all over the place. She is flailing for a way to fnd acceptance, and driven by a need to "do something." I totally understand that whoever Mary used to be is forever changed. It's not at all unusual, in the initial stages of grief...and let's remember it has only been a few months...to look for somebody, or something, to "blame." In my opinion, she is trying to find some way to come to terms with what has happened, perhaps feeling that, "when all is said and done," the pain will be unbearable.
IMO [/*]

I pretty much agree with you, Ionmhainn. I don't post too much when the discussion turns to Mary, the rape allegations, Maria's relationship with her family, etc. It's just not of real interest to me and has little bearing on her murder, in my opinion. But....there is little real news right now, so I guess that is what is on the agenda for discussion.

I too have much sympathy for Mary. She's a mother who has lost a daughter and grandchild, first and foremost. If she wants to "rewrite history" that too doesn't interest me. I supposed it's a study in human nature, but as I said, has little to do with the murder.

Give me some MEAT and BONES and I will be back to the discussion. :D

[martha]

I am so sorry some of you think I am judgeing mary I AM NOT!!! I am a mother and a grandmother and I can;t begin to even know what mary is going thru. I am not blameiing her in anyway. I am sure if it was me people would be saying things about me and no one really knows the hurt she is going thru. I am saying there is something about her I just can;t put my finger on that rings strange with me. I am sorry if I sounded like I was judgeing her I AM NOT. I said I was just wondering about something. sorry I will get off here if it is affending anyone.all jmho:rose:

[IvySterling]

~snipped
Originally posted by CANDYKISSES
I can't remember Dan's rank off the top of my head but for some reason I think he was maybe the same rank as Cesar. [/*]
Sgt. Daniel Durham

[CANDYKISSES]

Unfortunately when you decide to utilize the US Congress for your own agenda, it's using a TRAGEDY to make this POLITICAL IMO.

All over the map not not, and sympatizing with her or not, the fact remains she is choosing to keep herself out there for others to opine IMO.

Rep. Michael Turner, R-Ohio, set up meetings between Lauterbach and nearly a dozen House members. Lauterbach's daughter Maria was killed in December and a fellow Marine, Cpl. Cesar Laurean from North Carolina, is charged in connection with her death. Earlier last year, Maria accused Laurean of rape - a charge some say the military didn't do enough to investigate.

http://www.whiotv.com/news/15975505/detail.html

"Mary Lauterbach was in today, meeting with 19 members of Congress who were similarly concerned about the situation sexual assault in the military," Turner said Wednesday. "Almost all of the members that we spoke to highlighted the need for further inquiry."

http://www.cleveland.com/newsflash/cleveland/index.ssf?/base/news-39/120900594287170.xml&storylist=cleveland


Just like the USMC, the US CONGRESS and the reading public are subjected to her opinions, I feel we are open to voice ours as well concerning where things have gone wrong.

:shrug:

If you don't have a live alleged victim to answer questions or voice concerns, how can this benefit anyone?

IF this is an attempt to get policy change, then why not use someone who can talk about it?


JMO

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by martha
I am so sorry some of you think I am judgeing mary I AM NOT!!! I am a mother and a grandmother and I can;t begin to even know what mary is going thru. I am not blameiing her in anyway. I am sure if it was me people would be saying things about me and no one really knows the hurt she is going thru. I am saying there is something about her I just can;t put my finger on that rings strange with me. I am sorry if I sounded like I was judgeing her I AM NOT. I said I was just wondering about something. sorry I will get off here if it is affending anyone.all jmho:rose: [/*]

I don't think you have done anything you need to attone for here Martha. This is a board to discuss the Lauterbach case and certainly Mary falls within that criteria as she continues her crusade. Just like Cindy Sheehan did what she wanted to, Mary is doing the same.

IF Mary was staying out of the limelight, I could see people thinking she should not be discussed on a regular basis, but she continues to put herself in front of the cameras IMO and with an agenda.

Granted it may be personal and in an attempt to some free herself from pain she has over HER OWN WORDS about her child, but she is using a very public entity to do it.

That entity is a branch of our GOVERNMENT and she is making this very public from my POV. IF she wants to blame the USMC then it's seems fair to look at her actions too.

She had Maria in the most formative years of her life and she claims to have suspected certain things about her child but felt she needed the structure of the military. Again, she was screening calls BEFORE Maria even reported this to her mother.

There are underlying things that fueled the trauma she wants to put up for Congress to investigate and I don't think it's all the USMC and their lack of protection but we will see as more and more things are made public.

JMO.

Hopefully soon there will be other public documents to discuss.

[martha]

ITA with you candy, You expressed the way I feel about Mary too. maybe tomorrow we will get some news on this case. I hope they have a trial. would love for it to be on tv. I doubt they do that tho. :rose: I am so prowd of our mc and I don;t think they did anything wrong.jmho:rose:

[IvySterling]

~snipped
Originally posted by CANDYKISSES
Hopefully soon there will be other public documents to discuss. [/*]
Hopefully next week :shrug:

[Babes]

What's up with Amber's ex-relationship with a married man? How is that affecting anything on this case? :seeya:

[Babes]

Did anyone ask Capt RS whether Christina was out of town beginning first week of December as being discussed before by the Alanders?

[martha]

Is Anber ml sister?

[Babes]

Originally posted by martha
Is Anber ml sister? [/*]

christina

[martha]

Oh thanks, Just wondering I have missed out on a lot about this so I have not started my note book yet on all the people in this case lol:rose:

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by martha
Is Anber ml sister? [/*]
No martha, Amber is CSL's sister, not ML's sister Anne

[sunstar]

Originally posted by chance
I was reading over at OTC and this was just posted.

Maria's bus ticket purchase Info.

http://onslowcrime.encblogs.com/?p=160 [/*]
Thanks for posting the update, chance :) and this is interesting information ~ like where did she plan to stay that night? IIRC, there was a morning bus, so it doesn't really make sense that Maria opted for the evening bus on the 15th. I really wish we knew what she planned to do between buying the ticket and 5:50pm on the 15th. :shrug:

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by martha
Oh thanks, Just wondering I have missed out on a lot about this so I have not started my note book yet on all the people in this case lol:rose: [/*]

Good Evening Martha!

It is hard to keep up with all the people that are relevant to this case in someway.

Hope you are well.

imoo:seeya:

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by sunstar

Thanks for posting the update, chance :) and this is interesting information ~ like where did she plan to stay that night? IIRC, there was a morning bus, so it doesn't really make sense that Maria opted for the evening bus on the 15th. I really wish we knew what she planned to do between buying the ticket and 5:50pm on the 15th. :shrug: [/*]

Hey Sun, I thought the ticket agent first said she bought a ticket for the 10AM bus that Saturday. I was just surprised to learn it was for the evening bus too.

That does make you pause for thought. She had to plan to stay somewhere IMO. :shrug:

[chance]

Originally posted by sunstar

Thanks for posting the update, chance :) and this is interesting information ~ like where did she plan to stay that night? IIRC, there was a morning bus, so it doesn't really make sense that Maria opted for the evening bus on the 15th. I really wish we knew what she planned to do between buying the ticket and 5:50pm on the 15th. :shrug: [/*]


I found it interesting too.

There had to be some PLAN in the works.

Just not sure what that was and why it went so wrong.

[Babes]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


Hey Sun, I thought the ticket agent first said she bought a ticket for the 10AM bus that Saturday. I was just surprised to learn it was for the evening bus too.

That does make you pause for thought. She had to plan to stay somewhere IMO. :shrug: [/*]


Hi Candy

This is why i was thinking that CSL isnt at that home and possibly spending time at her relatives during the first week of December. Maybe they ( CL AND CSL ) are already fighting as CL is having an affair with Maria. IMO, CSL decided to go back w/ CL and possibly is going to surprise him at the Christmas party but she's the one who got surprised as CL didnt attend that party - CSL went home and found CSL AND CL together . They possibly knew that CSL is going back at that house so they are deciding to go to El Paso and they got shock that CSL came one night early

Remember the Alanders said on their TV Interview that Christina isnt at home during the first weeks of december ( or they didnt see her those days )

[CanCan]

Originally posted by baywench



The asking if she could leave the car there overnight ties right in with this. Were would she have been going that she herself would not had to have driven to? How intriguing now that we know for sure when the ticket was for. How reliable is the information? The other site disgusts me so I'm trying not to go there. Run into some strange fowl there I think. We know CSL was at the party, and I am assuming she was going to go home. This leaves me with my (1 of four) theories that they were either 1) going to leave together and stay in a hotel (perhaps the one the underground said they had stayed in? That's sounding more probable now) and CSL caught them getting ready to leave or 2)Maria went back to his house unexpectedly and they fought. Number 2 is less likely to me now 'cos he made a point of saying he helped her buy the bus ticket, I realize he's a POS but if that is true he knew when the bus was leaving. Thank you for tolerating my ramblings and a rather scary walk through my mental exercises! JMO [/*]

Your Theory #1 gets my vote, Bay!
:seeya:
jmo

[martha]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Good Evening Martha!

It is hard to keep up with all the people that are relevant to this case in someway.

Hope you are well.

imoo:seeya: [/*] Hi GB Good to see you or here I really miss you when you or not on here posting. I been sick so much I have not keep up really good on the names. But plan to now. i am feeling a lot better. Hope you had a good day. :rose: