Daily Thread 4/23, 24, & 25

[Rainkiss]

Originally posted by KatyDid


I heard the same last night.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24306122/page/2/

The case has been marked by confusion, even on the number of children involved. The state’s count rose, for the second time, to 462 on Thursday because officials believe 25 more mothers from the compound who had claimed to be adults are under 18.


This is from page two of the article. There is also a related video link at the site. [/*]

I wonder if that's why they allowed the mothers of the youngest children to stay, on the chance that those mothers claiming to be over 18 were actually some of the victims, and not ready to admit it, yet.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by Rainkiss


I wonder if that's why they allowed the mothers of the youngest children to stay, on the chance that those mothers claiming to be over 18 were actually some of the victims, and not ready to admit it, yet. [/*]

Oh, good point. They probably suspected these girl were underage and hoped they would 'fess up.

It also makes me wonder if and WHEN these girls were taught to lie about their age. If they thought nothing was wrong with marrying as a young teen, why not just tell their true age.

:shrug:

[Rainkiss]

Originally posted by KatyDid


Oh, good point. They probably suspected these girl were underage and hoped they would 'fess up.

It also makes me wonder if and WHEN these girls were taught to lie about their age. If they thought nothing was wrong with marrying as a young teen, why not just tell their true age.

:shrug: [/*]

They haven't said specifically what age kids are changing their names and ages, but I imagine they're taught that one young. Probably they're told not to be clear about ANYTHING with outsiders.

[lotty]

Originally posted by KatyDid


Oh, good point. They probably suspected these girl were underage and hoped they would 'fess up.

It also makes me wonder if and WHEN these girls were taught to lie about their age. If they thought nothing was wrong with marrying as a young teen, why not just tell their true age.

:shrug: [/*]

JMO/IMO Because they know the laws, Men, women and children old enough to understand, are more than likely told what to say because of those laws. You know how the threat goes..."Here's how we do it, those people don't like it, if you say anything they will take you away." Nothing like fear to keep people in line.

Did you ever notice on the interviews, the men would say "We didn't know we are criminals?" Want to bet on that? One man that is there in Eldorado, has already been through a jury trial, was found not guilty...but don't even try to convince me he doesn't know the law." As always JMO/IMO

[Rainkiss]

Originally posted by lotty


JMO/IMO Because they know the laws, Men, women and children old enough to understand, are more than likely told what to say because of those laws. You know how the threat goes..."Here's how we do it, those people don't like it, if you say anything they will take you away." Nothing like fear to keep people in line.

Did you ever notice on the interviews, the men would say "We didn't know we are criminals?" Want to bet on that? One man that is there in Eldorado, has already been through a jury trial, was found not guilty...but don't even try to convince me he doesn't know the law." As always JMO/IMO [/*]

Ignorantia juris non excusat


Ignorance of the law is no excuse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorantia_juris_non_excusat)

[lotty]

Originally posted by Rainkiss


Ignorantia juris non excusat


Ignorance of the law is no excuse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorantia_juris_non_excusat) [/*]

ITA!:beer:

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by lotty


JMO/IMO Because they know the laws, Men, women and children old enough to understand, are more than likely told what to say because of those laws. You know how the threat goes..."Here's how we do it, those people don't like it, if you say anything they will take you away." Nothing like fear to keep people in line.

Did you ever notice on the interviews, the men would say "We didn't know we are criminals?" Want to bet on that? One man that is there in Eldorado, has already been through a jury trial, was found not guilty...but don't even try to convince me he doesn't know the law." As always JMO/IMO [/*]

They may be look and sound stupid, but they are not. If they don't believe they are criminals, or they are ingnorant of the laws, then why aren't they coming forward. Why did they run and hide...COWARDS.

Even as they profess their religion, they are cowards. They claim to be prophets of the Lord. The Lord NEVER ran and hid from his beliefs and teachings. He suffered the consequences.

Oh yeah, they know...they know very good and darned well!!

:cuss:


Most of you know how passionate I am about this case and this whole mess. I apologize if my ferver gets up.

[lotty]

JMO/IMO I know this is a long list, but did you ever look at some of the parents names from the legal notice in the Eldorado Success? JMO/IMO
http://www.myeldorado.net/Pages/LegalNotices.html

Barlow, Donald Robert July 28, 1956
http://www.thehopeorg.org/texas_YFZ_10K_reward_offered_for_info.html
(you have to scroll down a little on this one.)

Jessop, Jennetta, Unknown
a/k/a Jennetta Barlow
http://www.eldoradosuccess.com/YFZ%20Pages/YFZ111804.html

Harker, Sterling John Unknown
http://www.abc4.com/mostpopular/story.aspx?content_id=c7ea64a0-da1*-4f62-a73f-cd5d024922f8

[lotty]

JMO/IMO I thought from the beginning there would be children in Eldorado who didn't have a parent/parents in Texas with them. IMO the government has only repeated the action of the FLDS (for those who think separating children from parents was the first wrong thing to do.) Three different articles, three different men, denied seeing their children by the FLDS. Pot, Kettle, black? JMO/IMO

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1734818,00.html
"Williams had driven 1,200 miles (1,900 km) to Eldorado, Texas, in the hope that a brief encounter with modernity would allow him--and others like him--to push it once more far from his life. He is a believer in an antique and renegade Mormon sect that has endeavored for more than a century to keep polygamy alive in North America. His three sons were among the 437 children removed in early April from the sect's ranch in Texas, and Williams was doing his part to get them back."

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by lotty
JMO/IMO I thought from the beginning there would be children in Eldorado who didn't have a parent/parents in Texas with them. IMO the government has only repeated the action of the FLDS (for those who think separating children from parents was the first wrong thing to do.) Three different articles, three different men, denied seeing their children by the FLDS. Pot, Kettle, black? JMO/IMO

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1734818,00.html
"Williams had driven 1,200 miles (1,900 km) to Eldorado, Texas, in the hope that a brief encounter with modernity would allow him--and others like him--to push it once more far from his life. He is a believer in an antique and renegade Mormon sect that has endeavored for more than a century to keep polygamy alive in North America. His three sons were among the 437 children removed in early April from the sect's ranch in Texas, and Williams was doing his part to get them back." [/*]

:beer: I'm glad you posted this lotty. I read it yesterday and wanted to post it but knew I couldn't without getting an attitude about it.

YES, they criticize the same actions they themselves participate in under the guise of their religion. hammer

[lotty]

Originally posted by KatyDid


:beer: I'm glad you posted this lotty. I read it yesterday and wanted to post it but knew I couldn't without getting an attitude about it.

YES, they criticize the same actions they themselves participate in under the guise of their religion. hammer [/*]

JMO/IMO Did you ever notice how hypocracy only applies to others. How does that saying go? About pointing a finger and three pointing back. Anyway, this is definitley a situation that takes a lot more than casual knowledge. As always JMO/IMO
Please excuse any spelling errors. BP a little high.:read:

[Rainkiss]

Originally posted by KatyDid


:beer: I'm glad you posted this lotty. I read it yesterday and wanted to post it but knew I couldn't without getting an attitude about it.

YES, they criticize the same actions they themselves participate in under the guise of their religion. [/*]

Please, all, post anything you find. And, though some of us may disagree on exactly what it is, I think we all want what's best for the children... If people start to be afraid to post what they find for fear of attitudes, we're defeating our purpose here, no?

One man, who gave his name only as Rulon, declared, "We have broken no laws"--though the laws against having multiple wives are more than a century old. "I am a loving and honorable father," said Williams--though he has not seen his children in years, by order of the sect's leader, Warren Jeffs. Asked how he can revere Jeffs as a prophet even after the man drove him from his home, his family and the community he grew up in, Williams first spoke of a "test" he was given, but then words failed him. "I don't ... I don't ... without the full truth being understood, putting a small amount of information in it does not complete a whole picture," he said. "So I will not get into that."

Interesting stuff.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by lotty


JMO/IMO Did you ever notice how hypocracy only applies to others. How does that saying go? About pointing a finger and three pointing back. Anyway, this is definitley a situation that takes a lot more than casual knowledge. As always JMO/IMO
Please excuse any spelling errors. BP a little high.:read: [/*]

"If you point your finger at someone, remember there are 3 more pointing at you!"

The whole thing is, this stuff i taught to these people in their everyday lessons from Warren. I hope LE gets a full copy of those insane lesson tapes. There should be a ton of stuff they can use in those.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by Rainkiss


Please, all, post anything you find. And, though some of us may disagree on exactly what it is, I think we all want what's best for the children... If people start to be afraid to post what they find for fear of attitudes, we're defeating our purpose here, no?



Interesting stuff. [/*]

I have to temper my anger at this cult. I'm not afraid to post, just concerned I might get banned for the comments I WANT to make at the time. So I choose my times to post and comment according to my calmness meter. :D

[lotty]

Originally posted by KatyDid


I have to temper my anger at this cult. I'm not afraid to post, just concerned I might get banned for the comments I WANT to make at the time. So I choose my times to post and comment according to my calmness meter. :D [/*]

DITTO! :beer:

[Rainkiss]

Originally posted by KatyDid


I have to temper my anger at this cult. I'm not afraid to post, just concerned I might get banned for the comments I WANT to make at the time. So I choose my times to post and comment according to my calmness meter. :D [/*]

Ah, wise. :cool:

It's a charged issue, and I can understand that.

[lotty]

JMO/IMO I see the "link gremlins" are after me today. So here goes again. JMO/IMO

http://www.abc4.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=C7EA64A0-DA1*-4F62-A73F-CD5D024922F8&gsa=true

Banished polygamist fathers hope to reunite with kids
Reported by: Brent Hunsaker
Last Update: 4/18 1:36 am

"With his daughters caught in the child custody mess in Texas, Sterling represents another class of parent that may have to be given standing in the court that ultimately decides the fate of the 416 children being held by Texas Child Protective Services. It's not just the people on the ranch who have a stake in what happens to the children. There in fact be several men from Colorado City who's families were taken away and sent to Texas."

[lotty]

So the link will not work. Here is the article. I thought this was very interesting, it presents another side to the story that many people are missing. IMO/JMO


Banished polygamist fathers hope to reunite with kids
Reported by: Brent Hunsaker
Last Update: 4/18 1:36 am

Print Story | Email Story

COLORADO CITY, Arizona (ABC 4 News) - Sterling Harker couldn't believe it. He was following news coverage on the internet of the raid of the YFZ Ranch and there she was: Phyllis. She was decrying the raid that took all 416 children from the polygamous community. Phyllis is Sterling's ex-wife. She and at least two of their children - both girls and both minors - were living at the ranch. He had no idea. He remembered, "She was bawling and pleading her case. I guess I should have been more sensitive, but I thought, what goes around comes around. She's crying; I cried. It's hard on her; it was hard on me."

With his daughters caught in the child custody mess in Texas, Sterling represents another class of parent that may have to be given standing in the court that ultimately decides the fate of the 416 children being held by Texas Child Protective Services. It's not just the people on the ranch who have a stake in what happens to the children. There in fact be several men from Colorado City who's families were taken away and sent to Texas.

Back in the late 90s, Sterling Harker made it known that he was opposed to marriages between underage girls and older men. He says that put him on Warren Jeffs' "blacklist." Jeffs would eventually take away his two wives and children and kick him out of the FLDS sect. "He just cuts people off," Sterling said. "No remorse, No consideration. Ruthless."

But with the state of Texas now in control, Sterling has at least a faint hope that he can get custody of his two youngest daughters, LaDonna, 13, and Shauna, 11. The child welfare system in Texas favors relatives over foster care as long as the children are kept from the abusive environment. Sterling still lives among the FLDS, but he no longer is a member of the sect. "All I can say is that I'm the biological father. I love my family. I have always loved them."

He believes the girls would be better off with him, but he also realizes that it has been a long time since he's had any contact with them. "I want to reach out to them if I can," Sterling explains, "I just want to offer them something better."

[Rainkiss]

Originally posted by lotty
JMO/IMO I see the "link gremlins" are after me today. So here goes again. JMO/IMO

Banished polygamist fathers hope to reunite with kids
Reported by: Brent Hunsaker
Last Update: 4/18 1:36 am

"With his daughters caught in the child custody mess in Texas, Sterling represents another class of parent that may have to be given standing in the court that ultimately decides the fate of the 416 children being held by Texas Child Protective Services. It's not just the people on the ranch who have a stake in what happens to the children. There in fact be several men from Colorado City who's families were taken away and sent to Texas." [/*]

Your link's busted. :( However, if these men want to come foward, excellent. Test 'em, match 'em up, and make sure they're supporting these kids, and the rest of us aren't.

Great, let them come forward!

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by lotty
So the link will not work. Here is the article. I thought this was very interesting, it presents another side to the story that many people are missing. IMO/JMO


Banished polygamist fathers hope to reunite with kids
Reported by: Brent Hunsaker
Last Update: 4/18 1:36 am

Print Story | Email Story

COLORADO CITY, Arizona (ABC 4 News) - Sterling Harker couldn't believe it. He was following news coverage on the internet of the raid of the YFZ Ranch and there she was: Phyllis. She was decrying the raid that took all 416 children from the polygamous community. Phyllis is Sterling's ex-wife. She and at least two of their children - both girls and both minors - were living at the ranch. He had no idea. He remembered, "She was bawling and pleading her case. I guess I should have been more sensitive, but I thought, what goes around comes around. She's crying; I cried. It's hard on her; it was hard on me."

With his daughters caught in the child custody mess in Texas, Sterling represents another class of parent that may have to be given standing in the court that ultimately decides the fate of the 416 children being held by Texas Child Protective Services. It's not just the people on the ranch who have a stake in what happens to the children. There in fact be several men from Colorado City who's families were taken away and sent to Texas.

Back in the late 90s, Sterling Harker made it known that he was opposed to marriages between underage girls and older men. He says that put him on Warren Jeffs' "blacklist." Jeffs would eventually take away his two wives and children and kick him out of the FLDS sect. "He just cuts people off," Sterling said. "No remorse, No consideration. Ruthless."

But with the state of Texas now in control, Sterling has at least a faint hope that he can get custody of his two youngest daughters, LaDonna, 13, and Shauna, 11. The child welfare system in Texas favors relatives over foster care as long as the children are kept from the abusive environment. Sterling still lives among the FLDS, but he no longer is a member of the sect. "All I can say is that I'm the biological father. I love my family. I have always loved them."

He believes the girls would be better off with him, but he also realizes that it has been a long time since he's had any contact with them. "I want to reach out to them if I can," Sterling explains, "I just want to offer them something better." [/*]

What does this mean, I wonder?

"Sterling still lives among the FLDS, but he no longer is a member of the sect."

Is he still practicing the FLDS religion, or is it that he still lives 'around' them?

I say, if he can pass the test for parental competency, then his children should be with him.

At least he stood up against Jeffs...kudos to him and his courage. HE is a man of courage, he suffered the ultimate by standing for what he believes. Not like these cowards who have abused these girls and run and hide.

Another testament to the evil Warren Jeffs perpetrated in the name of religion.

Beware wolves in sheep's clothing...this one is named Warren Jeffs.

[lotty]

Originally posted by KatyDid


What does this mean, I wonder?

"Sterling still lives among the FLDS, but he no longer is a member of the sect."

Is he still practicing the FLDS religion, or is it that he still lives 'around' them?

I say, if he can pass the test for parental competency, then his children should be with him.

At least he stood up against Jeffs...kudos to him and his courage. HE is a man of courage, he suffered the ultimate by standing for what he believes. Not like these cowards who have abused these girls and run and hide.

Another testament to the evil Warren Jeffs perpetrated in the name of religion.

Beware wolves in sheep's clothing...this one is named Warren Jeffs. [/*]

JMO If you use the link and put his name in the search thingy, the article and a video come up. He has their birth certificates and pics.
A lot of former FLDS members still live in CC/Hildale. However they are shunned by current members. So I would guess they are like citizens of the town who have never been members. I wish the man luck, for getting his daughters back. JMO/IMO
After thought, maybe shunned is not the right word, I guess it would depend on whether FLDS views them as an "apostate" or "gentile."

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by lotty


JMO If you use the link and put his name in the search thingy, the article and a video come up. He has their birth certificates and pics.
A lot of former FLDS members still live in CC/Hildale. However they are shunned by current members. So I would guess they are like citizens of the town who have never been members. I wish the man luck, for getting his daughters back. JMO/IMO
After thought, maybe shunned is not the right word, I guess it would depend on whether FLDS views them as an "apostate" or "gentile." [/*]

Thanks lotty :seeya:

I will do that.

If he still lives on the 'compound', and his daughters would still be under the 'influence', I'm not too sure the gov will give him his girls back. I wish him luck too. At least he has their birth certificates and I believe their best interest in mind too.

[lotty]

Originally posted by KatyDid


Thanks lotty :seeya:

I will do that.

If he still lives on the 'compound', and his daughters would still be under the 'influence', I'm not too sure the gov will give him his girls back. I wish him luck too. At least he has their birth certificates and I believe their best interest in mind too. [/*]

JMO CC/Hildale is not a compound, they are two incorporated communities. There are people who live in the towns that have never been FLDS. JMO/IMO

[not.another]

Okay, I have a question. When the mothers were taken away yesterday by bus, they had two choices of where to go. One choice of course was back to the ranch. If anybody knows, where
is the other choice? It was said to be another locations as per my msnbc link below.(hope the link works)



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/24307704#24307704

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by lotty


JMO CC/Hildale is not a compound, they are two incorporated communities. There are people who live in the towns that have never been FLDS. JMO/IMO [/*]

:o I didn't realize that. I thought they WERE the compound. :tongue:

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by not.another
Okay, I have a question. When the mothers were taken away yesterday by bus, they had two choices of where to go. One choice of course was back to the ranch. If anybody knows, where
is the other choice? It was said to be another locations as per my msnbc link below.(hope the link works)



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/24307704#24307704 [/*]

I heard this morning on CNN, they could go to a woman's shelter in the towns where their children would be located.

[lotty]

Originally posted by KatyDid


:o I didn't realize that. I thought they WERE the compound. :tongue: [/*]

The "compound" outside of a town, and fenced off is more of a new thing. Privacy fences in CC/Hildale didn't really start going up in numbers until Warren got in trouble. Colorado City, AZ and Hildale, Utah are incorporated communities, public schools, etc. etc. Lots of places to drain taxpayer money. When Warren forced FLDS children into private school, it left under 100 students in the public school in Colorado City, AZ. This is from memory, but the articles are out there. The school has been renamed El Capitan, it is still in receivorship, since the state started investigating where the money was going. Sounds like the new administration is doing a good job. As always JMO/IMO

[not.another]

Originally posted by KatyDid


I heard this morning on CNN, they could go to a woman's shelter in the towns where their children would be located. [/*]

That's interesting because only a few of the moms went back to the ranch and the rest went to this "other" place. Maybe they will have some "eye opening" experiences and realize that what they have been subjected to at the ranch truly are abusive in nature. JMO

[cloe23]

Originally posted by KatyDid


I have to temper my anger at this cult. I'm not afraid to post, just concerned I might get banned for the comments I WANT to make at the time. So I choose my times to post and comment according to my calmness meter. :D [/*]

Ok KatyDid,
I am going to follow your advise and become a luker again, until I settle down. I actually found myself at the pharmacy this morning talking the them about this darn case. I need to get a grip, first I wanted to go to Texas and help, but now I know I am better off being without knowledge of the happenings to this women and children.
Thanks you for your words!
Im sending you a PM, will you watch for it?

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by cloe23


Ok KatyDid,
I am going to follow your advise and become a luker again, until I settle down. I actually found myself at the pharmacy this morning talking the them about this darn case. I need to get a grip, first I wanted to go to Texas and help, but now I know I am better off being without knowledge of the happenings to this women and children.
Thanks you for your words!
Im sending you a PM, will you watch for it? [/*]

LOLOLOL!!!

I know, I have painters here and I am talking to them about it. I'm sure they are :rolleyes:

:D

I'll keep my eyes posted!

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by not.another


That's interesting because only a few of the moms went back to the ranch and the rest went to this "other" place. Maybe they will have some "eye opening" experiences and realize that what they have been subjected to at the ranch truly are abusive in nature. JMO [/*]

Maybe they will be able to feel what REAL love is. Not the sexual stuff, the stuff from the heart.

:)

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by cloe23


Ok KatyDid,
I am going to follow your advise and become a luker again, until I settle down. I actually found myself at the pharmacy this morning talking the them about this darn case. I need to get a grip, first I wanted to go to Texas and help, but now I know I am better off being without knowledge of the happenings to this women and children.
Thanks you for your words!
Im sending you a PM, will you watch for it? [/*]

Oops...mailbox full. Be sure to use the drop down list that says inbox and go to your sent and message tracking areas to delete whatever might be in there.

;)

[cloe23]

Originally posted by KatyDid


Oops...mailbox full. Be sure to use the drop down list that says inbox and go to your sent and message tracking areas to delete whatever might be in there.

;) [/*]

I just read the guideline coldwater has written. I got it now.
TY

[cloe23]

Originally posted by KatyDid


Maybe they will be able to feel what REAL love is. Not the sexual stuff, the stuff from the heart.

:) [/*]

As a young mother how could they not, and the love just grows.
I suspect brainwashing more intense with the elder moms, lesser with the teenagers. I would take dna testing and stay in a safe house, do anything to be near my children. I believe this option should be offered regaurdless of the age of the mother. Just keep the safe house full of qualified staff. Thus no continued brain washing. JMO Always supervised visits. Have a list of rules when and where they can continue to practice there choosen religion. But still accomadate it. If the mother is for real, she will follow those rules. Heck the state rules very well could be lesser then the ones at the sect. JMO

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by cloe23


As a young mother how could they not, and the love just grows.
I suspect brainwashing more intense with the elder moms, lesser with the teenagers. I would take dna testing and stay in a safe house, do anything to be near my children. I believe this option should be offered regaurdless of the age of the mother. Just keep the safe house full of qualified staff. Thus no continued brain washing. JMO Always supervised visits. Have a list of rules when and where they can continue to practice there choosen religion. But still accomadate it. If the mother is for real, she will follow those rules. Heck the state rules very well could be lesser then the ones at the sect. JMO [/*]

Hmmm, good point. I think the elder mom's have had more of their lifetime exposed to those rediculous teachings.

I wonder how much time the young mothers spend with their babies. This is their chance to be with their babies. I tell ya, that's where I would be, but that is just my opinion.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by lotty


The "compound" outside of a town, and fenced off is more of a new thing. Privacy fences in CC/Hildale didn't really start going up in numbers until Warren got in trouble. Colorado City, AZ and Hildale, Utah are incorporated communities, public schools, etc. etc. Lots of places to drain taxpayer money. When Warren forced FLDS children into private school, it left under 100 students in the public school in Colorado City, AZ. This is from memory, but the articles are out there. The school has been renamed El Capitan, it is still in receivorship, since the state started investigating where the money was going. Sounds like the new administration is doing a good job. As always JMO/IMO [/*]

Thanks for this great explanation lotty! :seeya:

I was totaly unaware of how the compound was laid out. I thought it WAS the two cities, but I get it now. ;)

[lotty]

Originally posted by KatyDid


Thanks for this great explanation lotty! :seeya:

I was totaly unaware of how the compound was laid out. I thought it WAS the two cities, but I get it now. ;) [/*]

IMO It can explain why things are done differently, when the call a week a later came in AZ, and they went and checked the house, and for the "person" making the call and didn't find anything. It is different when you live in a town versus the "ranch", but that is just my opinion. As always JMO/IMO:shrug:

[Rainkiss]

Originally posted by lotty


IMO It can explain why things are done differently, when the call a week a later came in AZ, and they went and checked the house, and for the "person" making the call and didn't find anything. It is different when you live in a town versus the "ranch", but that is just my opinion. As always JMO/IMO:shrug: [/*]

The fact that the "ranch" in Texas was, I believe, just one street address made a big difference, I expect. The warrant was for one street address, the entire YFZ ranch, so they could search the whole place.

[lotty]

Originally posted by Rainkiss


The fact that the "ranch" in Texas was, I believe, just one street address made a big difference, I expect. The warrant was for one street address, the entire YFZ ranch, so they could search the whole place. [/*]

ITA

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by Rainkiss


The fact that the "ranch" in Texas was, I believe, just one street address made a big difference, I expect. The warrant was for one street address, the entire YFZ ranch, so they could search the whole place. [/*]

I tiny flub on the part of FLDS with their layout in Texas, but thank goodness for it! :D

[cloe23]

Originally posted by KatyDid


I tiny flub on the part of FLDS with their layout in Texas, but thank goodness for it! :D [/*]

Am I picking up what has been put down? The tax payers are the ones that put up the fences?
Futhermore, if it is a neighborhood that me and my children lived in or next too, I would want to fences. Protect my children from the past acts of Seth Jeffs and his possible commons, they he learned from and elder once upon a time.imo
I do not have a prob with any sexual orentation so to speak but sagatory(sp) rape I do. I also do not like illigal prostution, jmo.
Go to a state where it is legalized and regulated. See how I get going from topic to topic.
But my questions is who paid for the fences?
:punch:

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by cloe23


Am I picking up what has been put down? The tax payers are the ones that put up the fences?
Futhermore, if it is a neighborhood that me and my children lived in or next too, I would want to fences. Protect my children from the past acts of Seth Jeffs and his possible commons, they he learned from and elder once upon a time.imo
I do not have a prob with any sexual orentation so to speak but sagatory(sp) rape I do. I also do not like illigal prostution, jmo.
Go to a state where it is legalized and regulated. See how I get going from topic to topic.
But my questions is who paid for the fences?
:punch: [/*]

Hi cloe :seeya:

I only know about the compound in Mancos, CO. The occupants of the property (believed to be FLDS, but they deny it) put up the fences, much to the dismay of their neighbors since it blocked their view of the mountains.

I still get a mailbox full notice when I try to pm you. Just don't want you to think I am ignoring your pm's. ;)

[Carol25]

:seeya: Afternoon, everybody! I just heard on the news that Rosita Swindle (sp?) has multiple personalities. Had you heard this? This case has so many twists and turns!

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by Carol25
:seeya: Afternoon, everybody! I just heard on the news that Rosita Swindle (sp?) has multiple personalities. Had you heard this? This case has so many twists and turns! [/*]

NO, I hadn't heard that yet. That would explain a lot though. But how in the world did she know the inner workings of the FLDS compounds? Maybe she read Flora Jessop's book. Flora is who she called before calling the crisis center hotline.

[lotty]

Originally posted by cloe23


Am I picking up what has been put down? The tax payers are the ones that put up the fences?
Futhermore, if it is a neighborhood that me and my children lived in or next too, I would want to fences. Protect my children from the past acts of Seth Jeffs and his possible commons, they he learned from and elder once upon a time.imo
I do not have a prob with any sexual orentation so to speak but sagatory(sp) rape I do. I also do not like illigal prostution, jmo.
Go to a state where it is legalized and regulated. See how I get going from topic to topic.
But my questions is who paid for the fences?
:punch: [/*]
:confused: Which fences? CC/Hildale or Texas?

[Carol25]

Originally posted by KatyDid


NO, I hadn't heard that yet. That would explain a lot though. But how in the world did she know the inner workings of the FLDS compounds? Maybe she read Flora Jessop's book. Flora is who she called before calling the crisis center hotline. [/*]
IIRC, there was alot of information about the FLDS in her house.

Flora was just on tv and said that Rosita had been abused as a child and her other personalities would try to protect her. Jessop talked about it so casually, like everyone knew this.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by Carol25

IIRC, there was alot of information about the FLDS in her house.

Flora was just on tv and said that Rosita had been abused as a child and her other personalities would try to protect her. Jessop talked about it so casually, like everyone knew this. [/*]

hiya Carol :seeya:

WOW! I live in Colorado. I think I will go digging in the local news sites to see if there is anything on them.

I can't believe if the local LE knew this that she wasn't recommended for admission to a mental facility.

:shrug:

[Carol25]

Originally posted by KatyDid


hiya Carol :seeya:

WOW! I live in Colorado. I think I will go digging in the local news sites to see if there is anything on them.

I can't believe if the local LE knew this that she wasn't recommended for admission to a mental facility.

:shrug: [/*]
As you said, it does makes sense, though. She's been making these "rescue calls" for some time. Finally, she probably had a psych work up.

[KatyDid]

http://www.keyetv.com/content/news/topnews/story.aspx?content_id=8291f5ad-740*-4e67-93*2-a691*733d26f

There is a link to the arrest warrant for Swinton under the reporter's picture. (I hope the link works)

"An arrest warrant from Colorado -- just released -- indicates the phone call that triggered this child abuse investigation may have been a hoax, from a woman claiming to have multiple personalities."

RATS~~~the link won't work and I don't know how to use the tiny url thing.

[KatyDid]

I'll try posting the link for the arrest warrant. It's a pdf file.

http://www.keyetv.com/media/news/9/4/5/945cbb92-2a80-4d71-8762-efe2400973e1/CO_arrest_warrant_for_Rozita_Swinton.pdf

:( hope it works

[Carol25]

Originally posted by KatyDid
I'll try posting the link for the arrest warrant. It's a pdf file.

http://www.keyetv.com/media/news/9/4/5/945cbb92-2a80-4d71-8762-efe2400973e1/CO_arrest_warrant_for_Rozita_Swinton.pdf

:( hope it works [/*]
Katy, try putting a bee in the place if the star on the last link.

[Rainkiss]

Katy,

Try using the http:// button up above the box you type in when you're posting, it seems to work much better.

This woman sounds DEEPLY disturbed.

[KatyDid]

http://www.keyetv.com/content/news/topnews/story.aspx?content_id=8291f5ad-740*-4e67-93*2-a691*733d26f

this is the link to the article with the link to the arrest warrant. hope it worked this time.

ETA: obviously I am an idiot. That didn't work either. :tongue:

[KatyDid]

one more time, then i give up. i tried the tinyurl thing.

http://tinyurl.com/5zxdxc

for article and link to arrest warrant for rosita swinton

[Ladyhawk]

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1734818,00.html

The Texas Polygamist Sect: Uncoupled and Unchartered
By David Von Drehle

"I am a loving and honorable father," said Williams--though he has not seen his children in years, by order of the sect's leader, Warren Jeffs. Asked how he can revere Jeffs as a prophet even after the man drove him from his home, his family and the community he grew up in, Williams first spoke of a "test" he was given, but then words failed him. "I don't ... I don't ... without the full truth being understood, putting a small amount of information in it does not complete a whole picture," he said. "So I will not get into that."

With Sterling H his wives and daughters were taken from him and sent to Texas for disagreeing with the sect on marrying under age girls to older men...with Williams it was a "test" and his wife and 3 boys went to Texas. Is it possible Williams was no longer welcome because he could only father boys? If you can't father girls then you're a waste of space? You can stay if you have boys AND girls but out you go if it's only boys you can contribute.

moo

[Carol25]

Originally posted by KatyDid
one more time, then i give up. i tried the tinyurl thing.

http://tinyurl.com/5zxdxc

for article and link to arrest warrant for rosita swinton [/*]
What is tinyurl?

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by Ladyhawk
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1734818,00.html

The Texas Polygamist Sect: Uncoupled and Unchartered
By David Von Drehle

"I am a loving and honorable father," said Williams--though he has not seen his children in years, by order of the sect's leader, Warren Jeffs. Asked how he can revere Jeffs as a prophet even after the man drove him from his home, his family and the community he grew up in, Williams first spoke of a "test" he was given, but then words failed him. "I don't ... I don't ... without the full truth being understood, putting a small amount of information in it does not complete a whole picture," he said. "So I will not get into that."

With Sterling H his wives and daughters were taken from him and sent to Texas for disagreeing with the sect on marrying under age girls to older men...with Williams it was a "test" and his wife and 3 boys went to Texas. Is it possible Williams was no longer welcome because he could only father boys? If you can't father girls then you're a waste of space? You can stay if you have boys AND girls but out you go if it's only boys you can contribute.

moo [/*]

:eek: I bet you are right Ladyhawk!!

With one, has girls but doesn't want them marrying underage.

The other only produces boys, which complicates the dirty old men getting their young virgins.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by Carol25

What is tinyurl? [/*]

:o that is the website i went to so i could shrink the length of the original link. i clicked on it and it goes to the news site that posted the story and the link to the arrest warrant.

[Carol25]

Originally posted by KatyDid


:o that is the website i went to so i could shrink the length of the original link. i clicked on it and it goes to the news site that posted the story and the link to the arrest warrant. [/*]
I think I have it. Will have to keep that on my favorites list.

[Details]

CNN reports all children now in their foster care homes. Some of the mothers have been allowed to stay.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/25/polygamy/index.htmlSeventeen of those women were allowed to stay in a shelter with their infant children, he said, but another 47 women were separated from their children. Of those, seven women chose to return to the YFZ Ranch, he said, and another 40 opted to go to "a separate location."

Azar emphasized the women were not coerced to make the decision and said it will not affect whether their children could eventually be returned, which will be decided by a court.OK, I'm an optimist - but 40 more out in the world - could be a good start.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by Details
CNN reports all children now in their foster care homes. Some of the mothers have been allowed to stay.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/25/polygamy/index.htmlOK, I'm an optimist - but 40 more out in the world - could be a good start. [/*]

Count me in on your optimist list. I think it is wonderful they chose not to go back to the ranch. That takes courage on their part.

[KatyDid]

Watching Nancy Grace. She played a video snippet of some of the women/girls walking together. Not sure where they were. Anyway, I noticed most of the women walking with their arms crossed in front of their waist and their hands covered.

Is that an action they are taught? Is there some significance to it?

[KatyDid]

Caller on Nancy Grace asking where are the older women, where are the grandmothers?

TH says she saw some women outside the courthouse that look like they were in their 70's, but not many.


Not much of an answer, was it :rolleyes:

I wish Nancy would ask her guest Carolyn Jessop that question.

[flygirl]

I am trying to listen to NG and type in another room and I know that I am missing some good stuff by not watching just what you have mentioned KatyDid.

I am late to this thread, but I have been following this story from the beginning. I am amazed at the whole situation.

I have a lot of feelings about the women and the children.

Any place away from the ranch is a good place. I can only hope the children get all of the help that they need.

I am so grateful to the people of the wonderful state of Texas for what they are doing and are trying to do for all involved in this big fiasco. They were a little late to the dance, but they came through for them and that is what counts right now.

I have always loved Texas and have some really great memories of trips all around that good state. I now some tender feelings and a respect for the law that is being enacted each day during these difficult times there.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by flygirl
I am trying to listen to NG and type in another room and I know that I am missing some good stuff by not watching just what you have mentioned KatyDid.

I am late to this thread, but I have been following this story from the beginning. I am amazed at the whole situation.

I have a lot of feelings about the women and the children.

Any place away from the ranch is a good place. I can only hope the children get all of the help that they need.

I am so grateful to the people of the wonderful state of Texas for what they are doing and are trying to do for all involved in this big fiasco. They were a little late to the dance, but they came through for them and that is what counts right now.

I have always loved Texas and have some really great memories of trips all around that good state. I now some tender feelings and a respect for the law that is being enacted each day during these difficult times there. [/*]

Love that signature line flygirl! :beer:

I have been following this since the Warren Jeffs trial. It is absolutely heartbreaking, IMO.

Nancy interviewed a man (didn't catch his name) who talked about the children at the children's shelter he was at. He said the young kids got off the bus, spotted red bikes, hoped on them and starting riding around. He said they were laughing and having a good time. It warmed my heart to hear that.

There should be a transcript of Nancy's show up on cnn later.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ng.html

:seeya: Welcome flygirl!

[Details]

I love the thought of these children able to laugh and play and be children for awhile. Even while I know they also miss their families.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Please, you all have to excuse me, but I truly think I am an enlightened human being?! However, this case and after hearing the evidence in the Warren Jef's trial, I have become sckeptical of these communes, cults or whatever you want to call them. I don't have a major problem with polygamy..even though it's not somet hing I condone...but given the known facts about breading children to a few select donors, and raised as future breaders, is something out of a horror movie ( given the youngster born, raised and given over to the chosen ones...not of their own free will, but out of duty to their leader!)

This lifestyle is so wrong, and totally against the philosphy of "Free Will" and recognition of equality of the sexes. This is not applicable in their lifestyle, and the males born into their community are expelled unless they adopt the secular beliefs, and continue in the power over their flock attitude..not love but a power seeking attitude. Literally a handful of leaders tell each and every person what to do, how to think, and never question any direction or demand..It's heartbreaking to think that there are 400++ little ones who only know one thing..they are alive only at the beheast of the grand poobaah..Warren Jeffs even in jail has power over these people..Disgusting!

Sorry, as I said, I am tolerant, but in cases like this, I am overwhelmed by disgust!

LMS :no:

[emdragon]

Lyndawitha"Y

I have to agree with you... In fact I really have an impossible time even seeing the other side of this case... And those that have posted with me before know that is not a normal thing for me.

I always try and see every side of a case but with this one i simply don't understand how there could ever be anything but outrage. period.

Even putting the sex with the children aside I am perhaps just as angry about the "Bastardization" of my Christian faith.

I remember Jonestown and maybe that is part of it. But I just have no tolerance for people follow these self proclaimed profits. I don't understand them at all. I know everything they say and do goes against the teachings of the Bible and I don't understand how a true believer could fall for their bull... And I am not only talking about the FLDS.

Maybe it is a combination of elements in this case.. The Child RAPE, The Cult mentality and the exploitation of women.

[walton]

Originally posted by Ladyhawk
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1734818,00.html

The Texas Polygamist Sect: Uncoupled and Unchartered
By David Von Drehle

"I am a loving and honorable father," said Williams--though he has not seen his children in years, by order of the sect's leader, Warren Jeffs. Asked how he can revere Jeffs as a prophet even after the man drove him from his home, his family and the community he grew up in, Williams first spoke of a "test" he was given, but then words failed him. "I don't ... I don't ... without the full truth being understood, putting a small amount of information in it does not complete a whole picture," he said. "So I will not get into that."

With Sterling H his wives and daughters were taken from him and sent to Texas for disagreeing with the sect on marrying under age girls to older men...with Williams it was a "test" and his wife and 3 boys went to Texas. Is it possible Williams was no longer welcome because he could only father boys? If you can't father girls then you're a waste of space? You can stay if you have boys AND girls but out you go if it's only boys you can contribute.

moo [/*]

Sterling Harker has fought harder to get the farm back that he once signed over to Warren. jmo He had an idea where his kids were. He just didn't do anything to get them back. He had no problems getting a lawyer to try and get his land back.

Google Harker farms. Heck there have been Harker trucks out at the Ranch in Texas.

I find it interesting that so many are saying that they didn't know Polygamy is/was against the law. That they didn't agree with the old men marrying the young girls. How many times did these men call the Authorities?

It was only until they had land taken from them or they were kicked out of their homes. That is when they spoke out. Sad.

[walton]

Originally posted by KatyDid
http://www.keyetv.com/content/news/topnews/story.aspx?content_id=8291f5ad-740*-4e67-93*2-a691*733d26f

There is a link to the arrest warrant for Swinton under the reporter's picture. (I hope the link works)

"An arrest warrant from Colorado -- just released -- indicates the phone call that triggered this child abuse investigation may have been a hoax, from a woman claiming to have multiple personalities."

RATS~~~the link won't work and I don't know how to use the tiny url thing. [/*]

Isn't it just amazing that her roommate never noticed the different personalities?

[walton]

Originally posted by lotty
JMO/IMO I know this is a long list, but did you ever look at some of the parents names from the legal notice in the Eldorado Success? JMO/IMO
http://www.myeldorado.net/Pages/LegalNotices.html

Barlow, Donald Robert July 28, 1956
http://www.thehopeorg.org/texas_YFZ_10K_reward_offered_for_info.html
(you have to scroll down a little on this one.)

Jessop, Jennetta, Unknown
a/k/a Jennetta Barlow
http://www.eldoradosuccess.com/YFZ%20Pages/YFZ111804.html

Harker, Sterling John Unknown
http://www.abc4.com/mostpopular/story.aspx?content_id=c7ea64a0-da1*-4f62-a73f-cd5d024922f8 [/*]

:) Yup I noticed.

[lotty]

Originally posted by walton


:) Yup I noticed. [/*]

I figure you have picked out more of them than I have. ;)

[walton]

Originally posted by lotty


JMO/IMO Did you ever notice how hypocracy only applies to others. How does that saying go? About pointing a finger and three pointing back. Anyway, this is definitley a situation that takes a lot more than casual knowledge. As always JMO/IMO
Please excuse any spelling errors. BP a little high.:read: [/*]

Check this out: http://thehopeorg.org/fight_spec_family_ripped_apart.html

In the past month, Jeffs expelled at least 30 men, stripping them of their priesthood, their wives and children and their rights to live in town. Most of them -- including Colorado City's mayor of 19 years, Dan Barlow -- moved away quietly, as women and children were "reassigned" to other men.

Two of Wyler's sons, Isaac Wyler and Ross Chatwin, were also told to leave the church. Another man, Ronald Rohbock, has left his home, his six wives and 50 children. Two of Rohbock's wives had pleaded to stay with him, Wyler said, but Rohbock told them to do what Jeffs said. The two women have since been married off to other men, he said.

Roots

Born in 1944 to William Edward Chatwin and his third wife Dorothy Mae Wyler, Marvin Chatwin said he has always believed in plural marriage.

He spent his first two years in a mental hospital room in Genova, where his teenage mother was locked up by the state of Utah for entering a polygamist relationship with Chatwin, who was 54 years her senior. [/*]


Polygamy Abuse gone on for years because it was allowed.

Utah and Arizona has done very little over the course of the years to end this abuse.

[lotty]

Originally posted by walton


Isn't it just amazing that her roommate never noticed the different personalities? [/*]

I hadn't paid attention! Hmmmm!:biggrin:

[lotty]

Originally posted by walton


Check this out: http://thehopeorg.org/fight_spec_family_ripped_apart.html

In the past month, Jeffs expelled at least 30 men, stripping them of their priesthood, their wives and children and their rights to live in town. Most of them -- including Colorado City's mayor of 19 years, Dan Barlow -- moved away quietly, as women and children were "reassigned" to other men.

Two of Wyler's sons, Isaac Wyler and Ross Chatwin, were also told to leave the church. Another man, Ronald Rohbock, has left his home, his six wives and 50 children. Two of Rohbock's wives had pleaded to stay with him, Wyler said, but Rohbock told them to do what Jeffs said. The two women have since been married off to other men, he said.

Roots

Born in 1944 to William Edward Chatwin and his third wife Dorothy Mae Wyler, Marvin Chatwin said he has always believed in plural marriage.

He spent his first two years in a mental hospital room in Genova, where his teenage mother was locked up by the state of Utah for entering a polygamist relationship with Chatwin, who was 54 years her senior. [/*]


Polygamy Abuse gone on for years because it was allowed.

Utah and Arizona has done very little over the course of the years to end this abuse. [/*]

Hasn't Ross Chatwin been very vocal since being ousted? I know he took pictures of Eldarado early on, from the air.

[walton]

Originally posted by lotty


I figure you have picked out more of them than I have. ;) [/*]

Some of those Barlow Boys should be singing the Barlow Brothers Jailhouse Blues. jmo

[lotty]

<respectfully snipped>
Originally posted by walton


Check this out: http://thehopeorg.org/fight_spec_family_ripped_apart.html


Roots

Born in 1944 to William Edward Chatwin and his third wife Dorothy Mae Wyler, Marvin Chatwin said he has always believed in plural marriage.

He spent his first two years in a mental hospital room in Genova, where his teenage mother was locked up by the state of Utah for entering a polygamist relationship with Chatwin, who was 54 years her senior. [/*]


Polygamy Abuse gone on for years because it was allowed.

Utah and Arizona has done very little over the course of the years to end this abuse. [/*]

I did not know this, it hadn't even ocurred to me to look the Chatwins up. :punch:

[walton]

Originally posted by lotty


Hasn't Ross Chatwin been very vocal since being ousted? I know he took pictures of Eldarado early on, from the air. [/*]

Ross has been very vocal since Warren kicked him out of his house.

Ben Bistline has been vocal. I've gotten a couple of his books.

Now there is a man that can give a person the low down about the history and the people of that area. I think I could listen for hours and learn a lot. Not just about Polygamy, FLDS or even the history but about life. jmo

Ruth Cookes brother who was in Banking on Heaven says it like it is as well.

[lotty]

Originally posted by walton


Ross has been very vocal since Warren kicked him out of his house.

Ben Bistline has been vocal. I've gotten a couple of his books.

Now there is a man that can give a person the low down about the history and the people of that area. I think I could listen for hours and learn a lot. Not just about Polygamy, FLDS or even the history but about life. jmo

Ruth Cookes brother who was in Banking on Heaven says it like it is as well. [/*]

I haven't paid enough attention to who hollered when, you know. Everyone has their own values, and I hadn't paid attention. I knew Bruce Wisan and UEP were having it out with Harker over the farm, but I didn't know the rest. See, I need to pay better attention!

[walton]

lotty I think you are paying attention and connecting the same dots.

If anyone ever writes a book about all this and puts it all in order I hope I am still living to see it all.

One puzzle piece after another. The twisting and turning for how many years? My head spins thinking about it all.

I heard that Judge Shumate said no to Warren. I thought he would.

I read someplace that Rulon had a gift for numbers. Boy, I'll say. That is another trait that was handed down. Money and property sliding from one to another.

I can't imagine what Bruce Wissans office looks like.

Rulon played with peoples lives and so did the "Prophet" before him and before him and before him.


I am gonna try and catch NG and Anderson.
:seeya:

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by walton


Isn't it just amazing that her roommate never noticed the different personalities? [/*]

Truly amazing, and she holds down a full time job. :confused:

I don't get it. But then Swinton is the one who says she has multiple personalities. I'm not aware there is an actual diagnosis of that fact.

Her roommate said she was a perfectly normal acting person.

[walton]

:rose:

Just wanna say thanks to everyone for posting links and sharing your thoughts. I appreciate it a lot.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by walton
:rose:

Just wanna say thanks to everyone for posting links and sharing your thoughts. I appreciate it a lot. [/*]

I bet I'm not alone when I say thanks to you Walton for being here and sharing your vast knowledge. You are appreciated very much!

:rose:

[walton]

Originally posted by KatyDid


Truly amazing, and she holds down a full time job. :confused:

I don't get it. But then Swinton is the one who says she has multiple personalities. I'm not aware there is an actual diagnosis of that fact.

Her roommate said she was a perfectly normal acting person. [/*]

Yeah.

You know, I've been following this for 4 years. If the Feds came into my house and checked my computer they would think I was a wingnut.

But I didn't know that there would be a Sara at the compound.

[cloe23]

Originally posted by lotty

:confused: Which fences? CC/Hildale or Texas? [/*]

The ones at another camp.. Imo the fence isnt going to stop a swat team it a raid is in process. They are just either making a statement or maybe sick of the paparizzi? JMO

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by walton


Yeah.

You know, I've been following this for 4 years. If the Feds came into my house and checked my computer they would think I was a wingnut.

But I didn't know that there would be a Sara at the compound. [/*]

That is one of the bizarre things about this whole thing, and the fact she knew so much about the happenings within the compound. If it was her, and she is a total nut, I guess we can all thank her for bringing light onto this subject again. Thank Goodness she did it in Texas where they don't put up with the abuse.

[cloe23]

Originally posted by walton
:rose:

Just wanna say thanks to everyone for posting links and sharing your thoughts. I appreciate it a lot. [/*]

So do I, TY too.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by cloe23


The ones at another camp.. Imo the fence isnt going to stop a swat team it a raid is in process. They are just either making a statement or maybe sick of the paparizzi? JMO [/*]

They put the fences up to keep out the general public and make sure their 'slaves' don't leave without permission. The fence at the Colorado compound has a huge gate at the entrance with a giant padlock on it.

hiya cloe :seeya:

[cloe23]

Originally posted by walton
:rose:

Just wanna say thanks to everyone for posting links and sharing your thoughts. I appreciate it a lot. [/*]

[Details]

I think a lot of that fence is more about keeping in than out.

[cloe23]

Originally posted by Details
I think a lot of that fence is more about keeping in than out. [/*]

That is why we have the 'FBI' They are not safer then any other family/company/person. That is being watched by the law. They can hear ya far*! If they choose. IMO Of course.

[LLaFren]

Morning All, {yawn} I guess I'm one of the AM people Katydid was talking about, just wanted to let everyone know I started the Week End Thread and PM'd CW to make it a sticky.

See Ya'll over there!:seeya:

[johnielee333]

Originally posted by KatyDid


They may be look and sound stupid, but they are not. If they don't believe they are criminals, or they are ingnorant of the laws, then why aren't they coming forward. Why did they run and hide...COWARDS.

Even as they profess their religion, they are cowards. They claim to be prophets of the Lord. The Lord NEVER ran and hid from his beliefs and teachings. He suffered the consequences.

Oh yeah, they know...they know very good and darned well!!

:cuss:


Most of you know how passionate I am about this case and this whole mess. I apologize if my ferver gets up. [/*]

i'm right with you.

[johnielee333]

Originally posted by Lyndawitha&quot;Y
Please, you all have to excuse me, but I truly think I am an enlightened human being?! However, this case and after hearing the evidence in the Warren Jef's trial, I have become sckeptical of these communes, cults or whatever you want to call them. I don't have a major problem with polygamy..even though it's not somet hing I condone...but given the known facts about breading children to a few select donors, and raised as future breaders, is something out of a horror movie ( given the youngster born, raised and given over to the chosen ones...not of their own free will, but out of duty to their leader!)

This lifestyle is so wrong, and totally against the philosphy of "Free Will" and recognition of equality of the sexes. This is not applicable in their lifestyle, and the males born into their community are expelled unless they adopt the secular beliefs, and continue in the power over their flock attitude..not love but a power seeking attitude. Literally a handful of leaders tell each and every person what to do, how to think, and never question any direction or demand..It's heartbreaking to think that there are 400++ little ones who only know one thing..they are alive only at the beheast of the grand poobaah..Warren Jeffs even in jail has power over these people..Disgusting!

Sorry, as I said, I am tolerant, but in cases like this, I am overwhelmed by disgust!

LMS :no: [/*]

i agree. its all so sickning. :flamemad:

[johnielee333]

Originally posted by emdragon
Lyndawitha"Y

I have to agree with you... In fact I really have an impossible time even seeing the other side of this case... And those that have posted with me before know that is not a normal thing for me.

I always try and see every side of a case but with this one i simply don't understand how there could ever be anything but outrage. period.

Even putting the sex with the children aside I am perhaps just as angry about the "Bastardization" of my Christian faith.

I remember Jonestown and maybe that is part of it. But I just have no tolerance for people follow these self proclaimed profits. I don't understand them at all. I know everything they say and do goes against the teachings of the Bible and I don't understand how a true believer could fall for their bull... And I am not only talking about the FLDS.

Maybe it is a combination of elements in this case.. The Child RAPE, The Cult mentality and the exploitation of women. [/*]

i agree.

[johnielee333]

Originally posted by walton


Sterling Harker has fought harder to get the farm back that he once signed over to Warren. jmo He had an idea where his kids were. He just didn't do anything to get them back. He had no problems getting a lawyer to try and get his land back.

Google Harker farms. Heck there have been Harker trucks out at the Ranch in Texas.

I find it interesting that so many are saying that they didn't know Polygamy is/was against the law. That they didn't agree with the old men marrying the young girls. How many times did these men call the Authorities?

It was only until they had land taken from them or they were kicked out of their homes. That is when they spoke out. Sad. [/*]

yep