Daily Thread 4/21 [Archive] - In Session Message Boards

LLaFren

04-21-2008, 10:40 AM

Originally posted by Rainkiss
The men haven't been speaking out. I believe four of them have gone to court, but that's going from memory, don't have the time to go check, please correct me if I'm wrong.

I've only got speculation on the whys on that one... but I'd bet it's got something to do with the fact that, if they come forward to testify, they'd give up their right to take the 5th and NOT testify that they've been taking multiple wives, some of whom may have been under the age of consent. Just a guess, but I'd bet it's at least a near miss. [/*]

I believe my grandmother would call that lying without opening your mouth, can't admit your dad, if mom was under age, because you'll go to jail, if you do admit it, you'll go to jail.

Hey, I like that catch-22:beer:

lotty

04-21-2008, 11:02 AM

Originally posted by LLaFren
Quick thought here, then off to work. Has anyone heard/seen anything about any father trying to get his kid(s) back? I know my husband would be the first in line, screaming about taking the kids, but I have yet to see a FLDS man speak a word.

Moms yes, Dads no, am I out of line here? [/*]

I caught the tail end of an interview on the Early Show, with two of the men. What is with the way they speak? I didn't catch enough of the interview to even say anything. Maybe they will be on another show.

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 11:03 AM

CBS The Early Show to interview young man forced to leave the Texas compound so older men could marry younger women.

:eek:

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 11:05 AM

Originally posted by Rainkiss
The men haven't been speaking out. I believe four of them have gone to court, but that's going from memory, don't have the time to go check, please correct me if I'm wrong.

I've only got speculation on the whys on that one... but I'd bet it's got something to do with the fact that, if they come forward to testify, they'd give up their right to take the 5th and NOT testify that they've been taking multiple wives, some of whom may have been under the age of consent. Just a guess, but I'd bet it's at least a near miss. [/*]

IMO, the only men making themselves known are the men who have not married an underage child. All others have run like scared rabbits and hide behind the skirts of the women who are the mothers of their children.

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 11:06 AM

Originally posted by lotty

I caught the tail end of an interview on the Early Show, with two of the men. What is with the way they speak? I didn't catch enough of the interview to even say anything. Maybe they will be on another show. [/*]

Hi lotty :seeya:

Maybe CBS will post the transcript of the interview. I am mountain time, so it hasn't aired yet. Will try to catch the interview and post what I hear.

Katy

lotty

04-21-2008, 11:08 AM

Originally posted by KatyDid

Hi lotty :seeya:

Maybe CBS will post the transcript of the interview. I am mountain time, so it hasn't aired yet. Will try to catch the interview and post what I hear.

Katy [/*]

That would be great...It would have been better to see it, but reading it would be great too. I can't believe I missed it. hammer I've been waiting to hear the men's response. Figured it was just a matter of time, in this here media blitz.

lotty

04-21-2008, 11:11 AM

OMG, it's Brent Jeffs. Good for him!
That was it?

Katy you should have seen the Dads earlier. I just didn't get to hear enough. :punch:

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 11:13 AM

Interview on now. Brent Jeffs (a Jeffs even) says he was tossed out because the older men scrutinize every little thing about their behavior. One little mistake and they are told to leave the compound.

They are lacking in education and life skills when they leave the compound.

Are boys inside the sect taught about sex? They are not. They are given orders and are told they must follow those orders and never question the orders.

:confused: What, that's it? Why did they even have this on if they weren't going to do a thorugh interview?

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 11:14 AM

Originally posted by lotty

That would be great...It would have been better to see it, but reading it would be great too. I can't believe I missed it. hammer I've been waiting to hear the men's response. Figured it was just a matter of time, in this here media blitz. [/*]

The entire interview was like 2 minutes in length.

lotty

04-21-2008, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by KatyDid
Interview on now. Brent Jeffs (a Jeffs even) says he was tossed out because the older men scrutinize every little thing about their behavior. One little mistake and they are told to leave the compound.

They are lacking in education and life skills when they leave the compound.

Are boys inside the sect taught about sex? They are not. They are given orders and are told they must follow those orders and never question the orders.

:confused: What, that's it? Why did they even have this on if they weren't going to do a thorugh interview? [/*]

TY I mtn time too. Augh I can't believe that was it!

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by lotty
OMG, it's Brent Jeffs. Good for him!
That was it?

Katy you should have seen the Dads earlier. I just didn't get to hear enough. :punch: [/*]

Oh the dads. I totally missed that interview. I hope they post it on their site later. Was that on CBS too?

lotty

04-21-2008, 11:19 AM

Originally posted by KatyDid

Oh the dads. I totally missed that interview. I hope they post it on their site later. Was that on CBS too? [/*]

Yes, it was on the Early Show as well. Before 8:00, trying to get kids out the door, and I missed it. Oh well, bet they will be on tv more and more.

BTW Good morning Katy :seeya:

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by lotty

Yes, it was on the Early Show as well. Before 8:00, trying to get kids out the door, and I missed it. Oh well, bet they will be on tv more and more.

BTW Good morning Katy :seeya: [/*]

:) Good Morning Lotty!

I will check their website to see if they post the interview with the dads. I haven't seen much from the dads.

lotty

04-21-2008, 11:25 AM

Originally posted by KatyDid

:) Good Morning Lotty!

I will check their website to see if they post the interview with the dads. I haven't seen much from the dads. [/*]

The Today Show had one Dad with a bunch of Mothers, but I caught the tail end of that one too. Must not be "my day.":cuss:

walton

04-21-2008, 11:52 AM

top of the day everyone. :seeya:

I took another day. lol

lotty

04-21-2008, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by walton
top of the day everyone. :seeya:

I took another day. lol [/*]

:seeya: Good morning Walton!

cloe23

04-21-2008, 11:55 AM

The report on In Session has sickened me. Guess their are mothers as young as 17yrs old! All the kids carry either once of the two last names one of them being Jeffs, can't remeber the other last names. I hope the run DNA test ASAP and stop plyagamist MEN and their raping of young girls, then brian washing them that it ok! :flamemad:

These women are forever scared. Maybe there is still enough time to helpout the children.

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by walton
top of the day everyone. :seeya:

I took another day. lol [/*]

:tongue: LOL

Good Morning walton. :seeya:

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 12:01 PM

Originally posted by cloe23
The report on In Session has sickened me. Guess their are mothers as young as 17yrs old! All the kids carry either once of the two last names one of them being Jeffs, can't remeber the other last names. I hope the run DNA test ASAP and stop plyagamist MEN and their raping of young girls, then brian washing them that it ok! :flamemad:

These women are forever scared. Maybe there is still enough time to helpout the children. [/*]

I didn't realize ttv was covering the updates on this. Oops, I see they just switched back to the Haq trial.

RATS...I keep missing the coverage.

lotty

04-21-2008, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by KatyDid

I didn't realize ttv was covering the updates on this. Oops, I see they just switched back to the Haq trial.

RATS...I keep missing the coverage. [/*]

Here it is...What everyone has been waiting for FLDS Fathers speaking out!

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008...in4029811.shtml

If you scroll down to the bottom of the page you can watch the part one of the interview, part two tomorrow.:)

cloe23

04-21-2008, 12:27 PM

Originally posted by KatyDid

I didn't realize ttv was covering the updates on this. Oops, I see they just switched back to the Haq trial.

RATS...I keep missing the coverage. [/*]

I missed everything on the Morning Show!hammer

I really WANT to see these DADDY'S

walton

04-21-2008, 12:29 PM

I couldn't get the video part to play anything but commercials but I read the story.

One of the guys said that they didn't know it was against the law to marry girls under the age of 18. *.S. jmo

If he didn't know they were breaking the law, why did he think they were secluded. Why did they lie about the girls ages.

He said they never use force.

What about common sense? What about that feeling in the bottom of your gut that says, hey why are we always having to run? Why is my wife crying behind closed doors while I have sex with wife number 3 ? Why am I sleeping with my Uncles wife? Why did my Dad get kicked out and I now have a new Father again?

How can anyone be that cruel? And not feel the pain of the person they claim to love?

How incredibly sad. and scary.

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 12:29 PM

lotty

04-21-2008, 12:35 PM

Sorry Walton, my bad.
Try it again, I think it will play one commercial before the interview starts, or it may go straight to the interview. :punch:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/04/21/earlyshow/main4029811.shtml

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 12:37 PM

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by walton
I couldn't get the video part to play anything but commercials but I read the story.

One of the guys said that they didn't know it was against the law to marry girls under the age of 18. *.S. jmo

If he didn't know they were breaking the law, why did he think they were secluded. Why did they lie about the girls ages.

He said they never use force.

What about common sense? What about that feeling in the bottom of your gut that says, hey why are we always having to run? Why is my wife crying behind closed doors while I have sex with wife number 3 ? Why am I sleeping with my Uncles wife? Why did my Dad get kicked out and I now have a new Father again?

How can anyone be that cruel? And not feel the pain of the person they claim to love?

How incredibly sad. and scary. [/*]

Yeah, but when he says 'they' never use force, is he talking about the three of them sitting there for they interview, or for the whole cult?

Talk about being led by a ring in their nose!! This just proves more solidly that these people are brainwashed from early childhood.

cloe23

04-21-2008, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by lotty

Here it is...What everyone has been waiting for FLDS Fathers speaking out!

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008...in4029811.shtml

If you scroll down to the bottom of the page you can watch the part one of the interview, part two tomorrow.:) [/*]

Thanks for the link! Boy 'Rulon' the one in the middle sure has been a busy boy! Six kids what about how many wives?

The oldest one, did you see the size of his hands!!! I wouldn't send my teenager to marry that monster.

I actually thought the guy on the end who said ' He has one wife and one child, He said he will teach his child to wait until 18yrs before marriage. IMO it should be 21yrs. But him seemed like the most decent of them all. Did any notice that he was about to cry? I thought he appeared abit emotional.

lotty

04-21-2008, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by KatyDid

Yeah, but when he says 'they' never use force, is he talking about the three of them sitting there for they interview, or for the whole cult?

Talk about being led by a ring in their nose!! This just proves more solidly that these people are brainwashed from early childhood. [/*]

I was surprised by the interview...I'm still not sure what to think of these men. It's probably not really positive I can guarantee that.
jflo is fixing to cover the story after commercial...keeping up and trying to do house work, I'm not a great multi tasker.

walton

04-21-2008, 12:49 PM

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr/21/quality-of-education-received-by-yfz-ranch/

Authorities know few details of the educational curriculum at the ranch, but court documents reveal that a teaching system was in place. Textbook exercises, daily lesson binders, report cards, grade books, writing assignments - all are listed as seized property in the search warrant inventory released after the raid on the ranch.

Also seized were "attitude and behavior sheets," parent-teacher conference sheets and even videos taken in the ranch's two-story schoolhouse, offering a glimpse of education at the compound.

I am thinking that they would have notebooks filled with Waltons attitude and behavior issues.

cloe23

04-21-2008, 12:52 PM

I think the three last names are 'Jeffs' = who is in prison.
'Barlow' sp? and 'Sect' = who has been convicted for child abuse.

They have identified the 'person of interest' Sarah who made that late night phone call.

Men in order to revieve salvation must have three wives.
Women in order to go to Heaven must submitt to a husband who has three or more wives.barf

Per Live In Session.....

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 01:02 PM

Originally posted by walton
http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr/21/quality-of-education-received-by-yfz-ranch/

Authorities know few details of the educational curriculum at the ranch, but court documents reveal that a teaching system was in place. Textbook exercises, daily lesson binders, report cards, grade books, writing assignments - all are listed as seized property in the search warrant inventory released after the raid on the ranch.

Also seized were "attitude and behavior sheets," parent-teacher conference sheets and even videos taken in the ranch's two-story schoolhouse, offering a glimpse of education at the compound.

I am thinking that they would have notebooks filled with Waltons attitude and behavior issues. [/*]

LOL about Walton's attitude ad behavior. I know Katy's name would be in there too. I hve always been inquisitive and ask a lot of questions. I don't think they would hve liked the questions I asked.

I wonder if they teach the children at an age appropriate level?

We know for a fact they listen to Warren Jeffs brainwashing 'lessons' 24/7.

walton

04-21-2008, 01:22 PM

Originally posted by cloe23
I think the three last names are 'Jeffs' = who is in prison.
'Barlow' sp? and 'Sect' = who has been convicted for child abuse.

They have identified the 'person of interest' Sarah who made that late night phone call.

Men in order to revieve salvation must have three wives.
Women in order to go to Heaven must submitt to a husband who has three or more wives.barf

Per Live In Session..... [/*]

Where are you getting this? Do you mean trutv?

lotty

04-21-2008, 01:32 PM

Originally posted by KatyDid

LOL about Walton's attitude ad behavior. I know Katy's name would be in there too. I hve always been inquisitive and ask a lot of questions. I don't think they would hve liked the questions I asked.

I wonder if they teach the children at an age appropriate level?

We know for a fact they listen to Warren Jeffs brainwashing 'lessons' 24/7. [/*]

LOL...First lesson of the day children. The word is "No."

O/T I love it when toddlers learn the word "NO" and they use it all of the time. :biggrin:

walton

04-21-2008, 01:42 PM

Man this bites.

I can't get anything but commericals on the CBS thing.

Turned on trutv and they have a court case on.

Checked out MSNBC on line- can't get that to work.

CNN on line video never works for me.

Checked out this http://www.gosanangelo.com/ can't get anything but something spinning in the middle.

It is a conspiracy I tell ya. The hubby must have rigged the computer. Gonna get a hammer. brb

lotty

04-21-2008, 01:58 PM

Walton,
I hate it when that happens with the videos. LOL! Been there, done that.

IMO This one leaves me scratching my head. :confused:

Gay union poses trouble for Bountiful
From religious shock to immigration issues, wedding dumps a mess in politicians' laps
Daphne Bramham, Vancouver Sun
Published: Originally published 07.04.06
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/features/polygamy/story.html?id=dc35486c-9*97-4d41-*618-714dc2c1c1c6&k=59376

IMO I watched the Fifth Estate video with Winston Blackmore, the reporter asked him about two of his wives marrying each other and his response was interesting.
:biggrin:

juliekan

04-21-2008, 02:07 PM

www.gosanangelo.com/
can't get a direct link to this video to work. Click on DNA downtime to let lawyers do prep work...On that page, check out the video titled local reaction to FLDS hearing. The first 2 women interviewed are from Utah. First woman gives her first and last name, then gives the lady with her only first name...sister wives?

cloe23

04-21-2008, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by walton

Where are you getting this? Do you mean trutv? [/*]

Yes Ashley Banfield did an interview with a reporter in Tx.
Her show on Ture TV is called IN Session.:)

juliekan

04-21-2008, 02:16 PM

Fox reports 10 am tomorrow all FLDS men to come to courthouse for DNA testing. Court hearing going on now with some girls who are denying they are under 18 (to keep them from being placed in foster care?) They state these girls look "obviously underage".

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 02:17 PM

On Fox News. DNA testing to begin on:

65 men

200 women

over 400 children

stating some men may not show up. if they do not, they stand the chance of losing custody rights to their children.

once DNA testing on the children is completed, the children will begin to be relocated. i wonder if they mean put in foster care?

Ladyhawk

04-21-2008, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by walton
~~~snip~~~

One of the guys said that they didn't know it was against the law to marry girls under the age of 18. *.S. jmo

~~~snip~~~
[/*]

I put a link to the Texas Penal Code and a link to HB3006/SB6 9-1-2005 on the links thread...marrying under 18 isn't the only law being broken out there in their compound.

I find it hard to believe that the leaders were not aware of changes in the laws. It is more believable to me that they chose to ignore any law not given them by their prophet.

juliekan

04-21-2008, 02:19 PM

Yes, they said they will begin placements, and the mothers do not get to go with the children.

cloe23

04-21-2008, 02:27 PM

Originally posted by juliekan
Fox reports 10 am tomorrow all FLDS men to come to courthouse for DNA testing. Court hearing going on now with some girls who are denying they are under 18 (to keep them from being placed in foster care?) They state these girls look "obviously underage". [/*]

Why would they do this unless they have been coached from birth that this is what they need to do if anyone come and takes them out of their community.

Kinda like how that gal from Utah who was kidnapped raped and married to that sick couple. The mans first wife held her down while he had sex with her. Cant think of her name now but when she was picked up but the cops she used her fake name.n Totally denied who she really was.
But as soon as her father came to the police station she admitted who she reallly was. This kids are being brain washed and punished on a daily basis, Its appers to me.
He last name is Smart, now I got it Elizabeth Smart.

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by Ladyhawk

I put a link to the Texas Penal Code and a link to HB3006/SB6 9-1-2005 on the links thread...marrying under 18 isn't the only law being broken out there in their compound.

I find it hard to believe that the leaders were not aware of changes in the laws. It is more believable to me that they chose to ignore any law not given them by their prophet. [/*]

Oh they knew alright. Why else would they buy that acreage in Texas under the guise of it being used for hunting? The leaders absolutely knew. I wonder if lying to the state of Texas about the use of the land is a crime? They have been hiding from the beginning.

Now whether a few of these men on the compound knew about the laws, is debatable. When I listened to those men talk this morning, at least one of them was lacking in his ability to make reasonable judgments.

Ignorance is not a defense for breaking the law.

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 02:35 PM

Originally posted by juliekan
Yes, they said they will begin placements, and the mothers do not get to go with the children. [/*]

WOW...even if the mothers agree to go to a woman's shelter? Oh, I see how that might not be a good thing for the kids either. I don't guess they could keep the mothers and children there if they chose to leave.

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 02:39 PM

Coming up on Fox News. Reports of child abuse on these compounds is nothing new. Fox reported on it five years ago.

Wonder what kind of child abuse they reported on.

juliekan

04-21-2008, 02:47 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by KatyDid
Coming up on Fox News. Reports of child abuse on these compounds is nothing new. Fox reported on it five years ago.

Wonder what kind of child abuse they reported on. [/*][/QUOTE
Women were beaten and forced to marry relatives.

lotty

04-21-2008, 02:50 PM

Originally posted by juliekan
[QUOTE]Originally posted by KatyDid
Coming up on Fox News. Reports of child abuse on these compounds is nothing new. Fox reported on it five years ago.

Wonder what kind of child abuse they reported on. [/*][/QUOTE
Women were beaten and forced to marry relatives. [/*]

:confused: Did the one lady just say this is not like Jim Jones...30 and 40 yo choosing to be members.

How many children died at Jonestown? JMO

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 02:52 PM

On Fox News:

A lot of these people have false documents. They must have known they were doing things illegal.

The kids do not have choices about their future. They are born into this culture/cult and they don't know anything more than this environment.

Arguing the relocation of the children may be too traumatic.

How did it get to this point that there are this many children who will be taken away from their mothers?

That's it for that segment.

I would ask this lady who questions how it got to this point to look at Utah and Arizona governments where this cult has the majority of their followers living. It looks like Texas started working immediately to get information about this cult once they settled in. They have had an informant living on the compound for four years.

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by lotty

:confused: Did the one lady just say this is not like Jim Jones...30 and 40 yo choosing to be members.

How many children died at Jonestown? JMO [/*]

Could you believe that?!?!
Some of these TH don't do ANY background work on the stories they comment on before they open their mouths.

lotty

04-21-2008, 02:55 PM

<respectfully snipped>
Originally posted by KatyDid
On Fox News:

Arguing the relocation of the children may be too traumatic.

How did it get to this point that there are this many children who will be taken away from their mothers?

That's it for that segment.

I would ask this lady who questions how it got to this point to look at Utah and Arizona governments where this cult has the majority of their followers living. It looks like Texas started working immediately to get information about this cult once they settled in. They have had an informant living on the compound for four years. [/*]

ITA!

juliekan

04-21-2008, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by lotty

:confused: Did the one lady just say this is not like Jim Jones...30 and 40 yo choosing to be members.

How many children died at Jonestown? JMO [/*]

287 children, that had no choice in the matter :(

cloe23

04-21-2008, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by walton
Man this bites.

I can't get anything but commericals on the CBS thing.

Turned on trutv and they have a court case on.

Checked out MSNBC on line- can't get that to work.

CNN on line video never works for me.

Checked out this http://www.gosanangelo.com/ can't get anything but something spinning in the middle.

It is a conspiracy I tell ya. The hubby must have rigged the computer. Gonna get a hammer. brb [/*]

Man walton your having a rough day! I hate conspiracy's and your hubbie sounds like mine.

I suggest to you to keep TureTv on because they are breaking in with reports from the reporter in TX about the compound and the kids.
:)

lotty

04-21-2008, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by juliekan

287 children, that had no choice in the matter :( [/*]

Thanks Julie...that's what I thought. I'm getting pretty frustrated with all these comparisons, wasn't Jones doing a little hanky panky with others than his wife? JMO/IMO:cuss:

evalles

04-21-2008, 03:00 PM

Originally posted by cloe23

Thanks for the link! Boy 'Rulon' the one in the middle sure has been a busy boy! Six kids what about how many wives?

The oldest one, did you see the size of his hands!!! I wouldn't send my teenager to marry that monster.

I actually thought the guy on the end who said ' He has one wife and one child, He said he will teach his child to wait until 18yrs before marriage. IMO it should be 21yrs. But him seemed like the most decent of them all. Did any notice that he was about to cry? I thought he appeared abit emotional. [/*]

I agree. The one in the middle seem kinda slow to me.
The older one kinda gave me the creeps, but the one on the end seemed normal. This is why I think each case should be judged on an individual basis. I think now that the outside world's been allowed in, these people might reconsider parts of their lifestyles.

juliekan

04-21-2008, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by lotty

Thanks Julie...that's what I thought. I'm getting pretty frustrated with all these comparisons, wasn't Jones doing a little hanky panky with others than his wife? JMO/IMO:cuss: [/*]
I know the children were beaten and tortured (hung upside down in a well). Sorry O/T

awareness

04-21-2008, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by cloe23
<snip>
They have identified the 'person of interest' Sarah who made that late night phone call.

Men in order to revieve salvation must have three wives.
Women in order to go to Heaven must submitt to a husband who has three or more wives.[/*]

So they've found Sarah per the TV broadcast?

Funny that FDLS preaches 3 wives, when the original D&C that Joseph Smith, Jr. had regarding polygamy didn't state you had to have a certain number of spouses or not.

If Im understanding correctly, theres court hearings going on right now to debate the age of women who are saying they're old enough?

JMO/IMO

lotty

04-21-2008, 03:09 PM

IMO/JMO All I know is that if I was involved in having my children removed I would do everything in my power to get them back. You want my name, identification, point out my children, dna, you name it. I would bend over backwards. As always JMO/IMO

cloe23

04-21-2008, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by evalles

I agree. The one in the middle seem kinda slow to me.
The older one kinda gave me the creeps, but the one on the end seemed normal. This is why I think each case should be judged on an individual basis. I think now that the outside world's been allowed in, these people might reconsider parts of their lifestyles. [/*]

You sound to be a very fair person. I see your from the same city where my daugher who was 23 when I joined this fourm is now 27 and she teaches 5th grade and english as a second lagnuage at a inter city school, right in KC.

I still say even if the guy in the middle appears to be slow he has six flipping kids and I want to know how many wifes! He must of started at a very young age.barf

cloe23

04-21-2008, 03:11 PM

Originally posted by lotty
IMO/JMO All I know is that if I was involved in having my children removed I would do everything in my power to get them back. You want my name, identification, point out my children, dna, you name it. I would bend over backwards. As always JMO/IMO [/*]

Same here!

cloe23

04-21-2008, 03:14 PM

Originally posted by awareness

So they've found Sarah per the TV broadcast?

Funny that FDLS preaches 3 wives, when the original D&C that Joseph Smith, Jr. had regarding polygamy didn't state you had to have a certain number of spouses or not.

If Im understanding correctly, theres court hearings going on right now to debate the age of women who are saying they're old enough?

JMO/IMO [/*]

And processing DNA testing to see if they are their cousin's cousin, ya know. Thats what it seems they do. Inbread.

I would like to know how many have mental defects and what

their IQ ability is as well.

And yes per Ashley *. the idenity of Sarah has been found. They refered to her has 'the person of interest' has been located.

juliekan

04-21-2008, 03:18 PM

www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695272416,00.html

Lawyers to challenge state protective custody

Women tried to visit children at coliseum on Sunday, were turned away and told they would be arrested if they came on the property again.

And...sigh...here comes the ACLU...knew this would happen...
ACLU worries about civil rights being violated

awareness

04-21-2008, 03:18 PM

Originally posted by cloe23
<snip>
I would like to know how many have mental defects and what their IQ ability is as well.

And yes per Ashley *. the idenity of Sarah has been found. They refered to her has 'the person of interest' has been located. [/*]

I agree, also you have to wonder to those who have been "deprogrammed" after escaping FDLS what mental issues, if any, they have... depression? Id imagine some do.

Cool thanks for letting me know they found Sarah. I know last week there were some reports of an adult female being picked up for making false reports to police (re FDLS I think?), I was hoping it wasnt "Sarah".

JMO/IMO

Carol25

04-21-2008, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by cloe23

And processing DNA testing to see if they are their cousin's cousin, ya know. Thats what it seems they do. Inbread.

I would like to know how many have mental defects and what

their IQ ability is as well.

And yes per Ashley *. the idenity of Sarah has been found. They refered to her has 'the person of interest' has been located. [/*]
Please post any more news about Sarah. This is great news! I wonder where she was. I hope she is able to see her children! Or maybe she is with her children. Oh, hoping for more news!:D

juliekan

04-21-2008, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by Carol25

Please post any more news about Sarah. This is great news! I wonder where she was. I hope she is able to see her children! Or maybe she is with her children. Oh, hoping for more news!:D [/*]
I can't find any news outlet reporting this, :rolleyes: are they slow or what.
Since she is 16, reported the abuse, and has a child (and is purported to be pregnant), don't you think she and the child coud go into foster care together?

Roux

04-21-2008, 03:34 PM

What has worried me since Thursday of last week are the attorneys representing the children. Are they being truly objective for the child's best interest, or are they simply trying to reunite the child to the mother?

Hypothetically let's suppose the atty gets the child sent back to mother and years down the road the child, now adult, says if only that atty had rescued me when I had the chance to get out of this cult.

cloe23

04-21-2008, 03:34 PM

Originally posted by awareness

I agree, also you have to wonder to those who have been "deprogrammed" after escaping FDLS what mental issues, if any, they have... depression? Id imagine some do.

Cool thanks for letting me know they found Sarah. I know last week there were some reports of an adult female being picked up for making false reports to police (re FDLS I think?), I was hoping it wasnt "Sarah".

JMO/IMO [/*]

I dont get that report of picking up an adult female for making faulse reports, the call was to the police from the compound wasnt it. (911 has caller ID)????
How can the state justify charging in there, removing all those kids without some facts? Would they be stupid enough to react without any evidence. I would think the call came from the compound??:shrug:

Roux

04-21-2008, 03:41 PM

Originally posted by juliekan
www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695272416,00.html

Lawyers to challenge state protective custody

Women tried to visit children at coliseum on Sunday, were turned away and told they would be arrested if they came on the property again.

And...sigh...here comes the ACLU...knew this would happen...
ACLU worries about civil rights being violated [/*]

On the surface it may seem cruel not to let the women visit, but wouldn't it be possible that visits would upset the children more at this point? I can envision crying -- oops, guess they don't allow them to cry -- anyway it would be better not to have them be upset again.

cloe23

04-21-2008, 03:41 PM

Originally posted by Roux
What has worried me since Thursday of last week are the attorneys representing the children. Are they being truly objective for the child's best interest, or are they simply trying to reunite the child to the mother?

Hypothetically let's suppose the atty gets the child sent back to mother and years down the road the child, now adult, says if only that atty had rescued me when I had the chance to get out of this cult. [/*]

Any reports of persons getting out of cults the victim is always greatfull. I have never seen an interview where they say 'man why couldnt of I just been left in the cult':confused:

I would hope that the attorneys are out for the best interest of the child, if reunited with mother get them into safe housing and continue to keep track of them, like any other social services dose. This is all jmo, I do not have any facts or links. They are going to need to hire more social workers tho.

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 03:50 PM

Originally posted by Carol25

Please post any more news about Sarah. This is great news! I wonder where she was. I hope she is able to see her children! Or maybe she is with her children. Oh, hoping for more news!:D [/*]

hiya Carol :seeya:

I'm digging around online to find something in print to confirm the story. I am thrilled she has been identified. I want to know more too.

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by Roux
What has worried me since Thursday of last week are the attorneys representing the children. Are they being truly objective for the child's best interest, or are they simply trying to reunite the child to the mother?

Hypothetically let's suppose the atty gets the child sent back to mother and years down the road the child, now adult, says if only that atty had rescued me when I had the chance to get out of this cult. [/*]

Your hypothetical is a reality in Utah, where young women have testified to their ordeals, and marrying at age 13. They have been turned back to the very men that were abusing them.

:shrug:

Utah and Arizona need a wake up call. I hope what Texas is doing is a slap in the face to these child rapist enablers.

Carol25

04-21-2008, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by juliekan

I can't find any news outlet reporting this, :rolleyes: are they slow or what.
Since she is 16, reported the abuse, and has a child (and is purported to be pregnant), don't you think she and the child coud go into foster care together? [/*]
iI'm looking all over the place, too. Do you think they were wrong? Why aren't they saying more?

I would think she would stay with one of the people that have escaped from the FLDS. I think that would be best. Of course. that would be best for all of them....

I'm going to see if there is an AP website. I know, I'll check Drudge...

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 03:57 PM

Roommate of Colorado Springs woman interviewed.

http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_8993150

"She is the last person I would expect to do something like this," said a woman in her mid-20s who described herself as the roommate of Rozita Swinton. Speaking at the door of their apartment, the roommate described Swinton as a steady, soft-hearted person.

More of the interview at the link.

Carol25

04-21-2008, 03:59 PM

Checked AP website and Drudge. The latest they have about the polygamists is the DNA story. Nothing about Sarah. Beginning to think it's not true.:(

They never said anything more on True Tv, did they? At least they could have given an update or said they weren't sure.

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 04:02 PM

Maybe it was a mistake. I mean, that is big news since they have reported it was a possible hoax. I would think a cnn or fox would pick that story up immediately.

:shrug:

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 04:12 PM

http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_9002940

SAN ANGELO, Texas -- Mothers in the polygamous FLDS sect on Monday filed a motion for a temporary restraining order demanding access to attorneys, privacy in prayer and a halt to Texas child-welfare workers plans to separate them from their breast-feeding children.

More at the link.

Poochie Pie

04-21-2008, 04:48 PM

evalles

04-21-2008, 04:53 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by cloe23

You sound to be a very fair person. I see your from the same city where my daugher who was 23 when I joined this fourm is now 27 and she teaches 5th grade and english as a second lagnuage at a inter city school, right in KC.

I still say even if the guy in the middle appears to be slow he has six flipping kids and I want to know how many wifes! He must of started at a very young age.barf [/*][/QUOTE

or 6 wives

juliekan

04-21-2008, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by KatyDid
http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_9002940

SAN ANGELO, Texas -- Mothers in the polygamous FLDS sect on Monday filed a motion for a temporary restraining order demanding access to attorneys, privacy in prayer and a halt to Texas child-welfare workers plans to separate them from their breast-feeding children.

More at the link. [/*]

Since when is it unconstitutional to vacuum while someone is praying?

juliekan

04-21-2008, 05:11 PM

Originally posted by Roux

On the surface it may seem cruel not to let the women visit, but wouldn't it be possible that visits would upset the children more at this point? I can envision crying -- oops, guess they don't allow them to cry -- anyway it would be better not to have them be upset again. [/*]

Legally, they don't let the family of a child removed by CPS see the child, correct?

juliekan

04-21-2008, 05:13 PM

Originally posted by juliekan

Since when is it unconstitutional to vacuum while someone is praying? [/*]

And the mothers say they cannot pray unless someone monitors them? That is ridiculous...I do not believe that.

juliekan

04-21-2008, 05:22 PM

Roux

04-21-2008, 05:29 PM

One of the women who was on Today this AM commented about how terrible the conditions were, i.e. they had to sleep on cots and use porta potties. They have whined and complained in the media about the conditions under which LE held them, but their homes don't look all that comfortable to me!
And when asked about their hair, one said it's just a choice, doesn't mean anything, we like to wear it long and just put it up to keep it out of our way. What is the harm in saying we believe a woman should not cut her hair? Why do they lie and why are they evasive about every thing they're asked about?

Rainkiss

04-21-2008, 05:31 PM

Originally posted by cloe23

I dont get that report of picking up an adult female for making faulse reports, the call was to the police from the compound wasnt it. (911 has caller ID)????
How can the state justify charging in there, removing all those kids without some facts? Would they be stupid enough to react without any evidence. I would think the call came from the compound??:shrug: [/*]

The calls were to a womens' shelter, not 911, I believe... and, IIRC, they may have been made from a cell phone, so caller ID wouldn't pinpoint a location.

It's their job to investigate claims, not doubt them. Had there been nothing to hide, all that would have come of the calls is the false reporting charge (which may happen), and a few PR opportunities for the community. They DID, apparently, have something to hide, so the feces struck the rotating blades. :shrug:

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 05:35 PM

Originally posted by Roux
One of the women who was on Today this AM commented about how terrible the conditions were, i.e. they had to sleep on cots and use porta potties. They have whined and complained in the media about the conditions under which LE held them, but their homes don't look all that comfortable to me!
And when asked about their hair, one said it's just a choice, doesn't mean anything, we like to wear it long and just put it up to keep it out of our way. What is the harm in saying we believe a woman should not cut her hair? Why do they lie and why are they evasive about every thing they're asked about? [/*]

They call it "Lying for the Lord". The truth is they wear their hair the way their husbands want them to wear it. It is not THEIR choice, it is the choice of their husband.

http://www.mormonwiki.org/Lying_for_the_Lord

Lying for the Lord refers to the practice of lying to protect the image of and belief in the Mormon religion, a practice which Mormonism itself fosters in various ways. From Joseph Smith's denial of having more than one wife, to polygamous Mormon missionaries telling European investigators that reports about polygamy in Utah were lies put out by "anti-Mormons" and disgruntled ex-members, to Gordon *. Hinckley's dishonest equivocation on national television over Mormon doctrine, Mormonism's history seems replete with examples of lying. Common members see such examples as situations where lying is justified. For the Mormon, loyalty and the welfare of the church are more important than the principle of honesty, and plausible denials and deception by omission are warranted by an opportunity to have the Mormon organization seen in the best possible light. This is part of the larger package of things that lead many to describe Mormonism as a cult. "Lying for the lord" is part of Mormonism's larger deceptive mainstreaming tactics, and conversion numbers would drastically lower if important Mormon beliefs were fully disclosed to investigators.

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 05:38 PM

Originally posted by juliekan

CPS spokesman Cunningham reports that teenage mothers will be placed with their children and siblings. per Deseret News. [/*]

Thanks juliekan!

I am glad to hear this.

evalles

04-21-2008, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by juliekan

Legally, they don't let the family of a child removed by CPS see the child, correct? [/*]

No. That would be cruel. The parent's rights haven't been terminated and CPS is supposed to maintain contact between the parents and their children.
If CPS thinks it would be harmful for the children, they have to present their evidence to the court w/ the parents & their attorney's present and the judge decides.
Unfortunately, in my experience CPS routinely violates court orders.
IMO, it's emotionally abusive to cut children completely off from their parents.

evalles

04-21-2008, 05:42 PM

Originally posted by KatyDid

They call it "Lying for the Lord". The truth is they wear their hair the way their husbands want them to wear it. It is not THEIR choice, it is the choice of their husband.

http://www.mormonwiki.org/Lying_for_the_Lord

Lying for the Lord refers to the practice of lying to protect the image of and belief in the Mormon religion, a practice which Mormonism itself fosters in various ways. From Joseph Smith's denial of having more than one wife, to polygamous Mormon missionaries telling European investigators that reports about polygamy in Utah were lies put out by "anti-Mormons" and disgruntled ex-members, to Gordon *. Hinckley's dishonest equivocation on national television over Mormon doctrine, Mormonism's history seems replete with examples of lying. Common members see such examples as situations where lying is justified. For the Mormon, loyalty and the welfare of the church are more important than the principle of honesty, and plausible denials and deception by omission are warranted by an opportunity to have the Mormon organization seen in the best possible light. This is part of the larger package of things that lead many to describe Mormonism as a cult. "Lying for the lord" is part of Mormonism's larger deceptive mainstreaming tactics, and conversion numbers would drastically lower if important Mormon beliefs were fully disclosed to investigators. [/*]

Their attorney's probably told them to keep their mouths shut

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 05:44 PM

Originally posted by cloe23

Any reports of persons getting out of cults the victim is always greatfull. I have never seen an interview where they say 'man why couldnt of I just been left in the cult':confused:

I would hope that the attorneys are out for the best interest of the child, if reunited with mother get them into safe housing and continue to keep track of them, like any other social services dose. This is all jmo, I do not have any facts or links. They are going to need to hire more social workers tho. [/*]

Hi cloe23 :seeya:

There are two sets of calls. There are calls made to Flora Jessup from the 33 y/o woman in Colorado Springs. These were made over a period of I think two weeks. Then there are the two calls made to the abuse center in San Angelo on Mar 29 and Mar 30. The center reported these two calls to LE, and LE took action on those calls by getting warrants to raid the ranch.

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 05:45 PM

Originally posted by evalles

Their attorney's probably told them to keep their mouths shut [/*]

From what I understand they wouldn't have had to tell them. The women don't say what they are not instructed to say.

evalles

04-21-2008, 05:46 PM

Originally posted by Rainkiss

The calls were to a womens' shelter, not 911, I believe... and, IIRC, they may have been made from a cell phone, so caller ID wouldn't pinpoint a location.

It's their job to investigate claims, not doubt them. Had there been nothing to hide, all that would have come of the calls is the false reporting charge (which may happen), and a few PR opportunities for the community. They DID, apparently, have something to hide, so the feces struck the rotating blades. :shrug: [/*]

Since they arrested this woman so quickly, it seems that they had some evidence that the report was false.
IMO, they were likely aware of this and got the kids out before that info was released to the public.

juliekan

04-21-2008, 05:48 PM

On another site, I saw where they are also fingerprinting with the DNA samples. I guess this is so when the samples come back, they can make sure that the person who gave the sample matches. No Switcheroooos

evalles

04-21-2008, 05:51 PM

Originally posted by juliekan
www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695272416,00.html

Lawyers to challenge state protective custody

Women tried to visit children at coliseum on Sunday, were turned away and told they would be arrested if they came on the property again.

And...sigh...here comes the ACLU...knew this would happen...
ACLU worries about civil rights being violated [/*]

I worry about civil rights being violated.
The ACLU usually doesn't intervene w/ custody issues unless they involve homosexuals. IMO, they are publicity mongers and they don't help your average Joe unless it can put them in the middle of a huge media circus.

juliekan

04-21-2008, 05:53 PM

Originally posted by evalles

I worry about civil rights being violated.
The ACLU usually doesn't intervene w/ custody issues unless they involve homosexuals. IMO, they are publicity mongers and they don't help your average Joe unless it can put them in the middle of a huge media circus. [/*]
ITA

evalles

04-21-2008, 05:54 PM

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 05:56 PM

Originally posted by evalles

Since they arrested this woman so quickly, it seems that they had some evidence that the report was false.
IMO, they were likely aware of this and got the kids out before that info was released to the public. [/*]

IIRC, it has not been proven the woman in Colorado called the San Angelo abuse center. I believe all they have on her is calling Flora Jessop. The local LE in San Angelo were not aware of the Colorado woman until after the raid. LE acted on two calls placed to the local abuse hotline in San Angelo. They were in Colorado Springs last week to speak with this woman. The documents associated with that 'vist' have been sealed.

evalles

04-21-2008, 05:57 PM

Originally posted by KatyDid

WOW...even if the mothers agree to go to a woman's shelter? Oh, I see how that might not be a good thing for the kids either. I don't guess they could keep the mothers and children there if they chose to leave. [/*]

Putting them with strangers isn't a good thing either.
Put yourselves in their shoes. As a child, would you have rather stayed in a shelter w/ your mother or be sent to live with strangers ?

evalles

04-21-2008, 05:59 PM

Originally posted by KatyDid

IIRC, it has not been proven the woman in Colorado called the San Angelo abuse center. I believe all they have on her is calling Flora Jessop. The local LE in San Angelo were not aware of the Colorado woman until after the raid. LE acted on two calls placed to the local abuse hotline in San Angelo. They were in Colorado Springs last week to speak with this woman. The documents associated with that 'vist' have been sealed. [/*]

IMO, this is very suspicious. How/why was she talking to Flora Jessop ?
Could Ms Jessop have put her up to this ?

evalles

04-21-2008, 06:02 PM

Originally posted by KatyDid

IIRC, it has not been proven the woman in Colorado called the San Angelo abuse center. I believe all they have on her is calling Flora Jessop. The local LE in San Angelo were not aware of the Colorado woman until after the raid. LE acted on two calls placed to the local abuse hotline in San Angelo. They were in Colorado Springs last week to speak with this woman. The documents associated with that 'vist' have been sealed. [/*]

I thought that calls to an abuse hotline were confidential.
What if you're a woman that wants to talk about your situation and get some options but aren't prepared to have your spouse arrested.
This could prevent some women from calling these shelters.

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 06:24 PM

Originally posted by evalles

IMO, this is very suspicious. How/why was she talking to Flora Jessop ?
Could Ms Jessop have put her up to this ? [/*]

In the transcript of the calls from the exclusive with Anderson Cooper on CNN, Flora Jessop told this woman she did not believe her and thought she was lying.

If Flora Jessop intended to do something illegal with this woman's calls, I don't think she would have spent 40 hours on the phone with her over 2 weeks trying to get to the truth. I don't think Flora Jessop would want to hurt her reputation as a person the young girls from these compounds can come to for help once they leave the compounds.

We don't know how she got Flora's number. She could easily have gotten it from Flora's website. The woman in Colorado has mental stability issues. She has done this sort of thing before, and is currently awaiting trial on one of the offenses. The documents relating to this case have been sealed.

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 06:29 PM

Originally posted by evalles

I thought that calls to an abuse hotline were confidential.
What if you're a woman that wants to talk about your situation and get some options but aren't prepared to have your spouse arrested.
This could prevent some women from calling these shelters. [/*]

It probably depends on if the person making the call indicates her life might be in danger. These centers also have an obligation to report a crime or the suspicion of a crime to LE. I am sure they let the callers know what the center's obligation under the law is.

walton

04-21-2008, 06:38 PM

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=3132768

While the battle over the custody of FLDS children in Texas continues, so does the criticism that keeps getting poured onto Utah for not taking similar actions.

Inside the Utah Attorney General's Office, spokesman Paul Murphy says he's been getting critical calls and e-mails from all over the United States and from around the world. "One is: ‘Why don't you just arrest every polygamist?'" he said.

Some cable news talk shows have also been pointing a finger saying Utah hasn't prosecuted polygamy enough. Murphy says that's frustrating because he says they do and are investigating polygamist groups for child abuse and other crimes when information becomes available.

Maybe they should take a look at the Rick Ross website and get a few names off of there.

:cuss:

Maybe Utah and Arizona could start a payment plan and tll us how they are going to start paying back the Federal Governmet for allowing this go on for so long. Federal grants, Federal Program.

Hey Utah and Arizona just send my share to Texas.
Thank you
Love Walton

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 06:47 PM

Originally posted by walton
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=3132768

While the battle over the custody of FLDS children in Texas continues, so does the criticism that keeps getting poured onto Utah for not taking similar actions.

Inside the Utah Attorney General's Office, spokesman Paul Murphy says he's been getting critical calls and e-mails from all over the United States and from around the world. "One is: ‘Why don't you just arrest every polygamist?'" he said.

Some cable news talk shows have also been pointing a finger saying Utah hasn't prosecuted polygamy enough. Murphy says that's frustrating because he says they do and are investigating polygamist groups for child abuse and other crimes when information becomes available.

Maybe they should take a look at the Rick Ross website and get a few names off of there.

:cuss:

Maybe Utah and Arizona could start a payment plan and tll us how they are going to start paying back the Federal Governmet for allowing this go on for so long. Federal grants, Federal Program.

Hey Utah and Arizona just send my share to Texas.
Thank you
Love Walton [/*]

:beer:

Utah=the ostrich with its head in the sand, IMO.

lotty

04-21-2008, 06:50 PM

Originally posted by KatyDid

:beer:

Utah=the ostrich with its head in the sand, IMO. [/*]

...And Arizona as well.

Debb

04-21-2008, 06:58 PM

Originally posted by evalles

No. That would be cruel. The parent's rights haven't been terminated and CPS is supposed to maintain contact between the parents and their children.
If CPS thinks it would be harmful for the children, they have to present their evidence to the court w/ the parents & their attorney's present and the judge decides.
Unfortunately, in my experience CPS routinely violates court orders.
IMO, it's emotionally abusive to cut children completely off from their parents. [/*]

CPS will generally allow a child to stay in the custody of one parent if that parent is not conducting or condoning the abuse and signs a Protective Agreement to not allow the alleged abuser near the child pending completion of the full investigation. However, that is not possible here because the mothers deny there was any abuse and I believe show no ability to abide by a protective agreement over there husband's demands.

These mothers are not trustworthy. I believe they have no idea that they can make any decisions for themself. Thank God, some of the mothers went to a shelter to receive protection and hopefully some information.

The children's safety is more important than the mothers' broken hearts. I know the children are probably scared and confused, however, abuse causes fear and confusion in children as well. There has to be safeguards taken when parents are blind to what harm they are doing to their children.

I think when they get the DNA results, there will be a clearer picture of how many grown men have fathered girls under 16. Who is responsible for this.....the men, the parents, the mothers who allow it? Perhaps the criminal statutes of Texas will dictate the answer.

walton

04-21-2008, 07:00 PM

Gee I wonder if they might talk to some of the Judges about their light sentences that they have been handing out?

And the sex- offender registery? The one man in question was suppose to be on the list for having sex with a 16 year old. You know the one, the one that got 45 days handed to him by Judge Steven Conn. That guy.

The sex offender phones in to his probation officer .Sex offender phoning in. Doesn't that just beat all?

I also wonder where the outrage is by those in the Political Offices. This is the biggest "raid" since Waco and it involves 416 kids. And they've nothing to say?

They can't say they didn't know this was happening because I called darn near everyone of them.

And how about those running for office? What do they have to say. Shame, shame shame. Tough wannabees that want the position and they skirt around this like their mamma is gonna get them.

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 07:07 PM

Originally posted by lotty

...And Arizona as well. [/*]

You are right. I should have included them.

Ladyhawk

04-21-2008, 07:08 PM

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by walton
~~~snip~~~
Some cable news talk shows have also been pointing a finger saying Utah hasn't prosecuted polygamy enough. Murphy says that's frustrating because he says they do and are investigating polygamist groups for child abuse and other crimes when information becomes available.

~~~snip~~~

Ah...there's the caveat...when information becomes available. Information just never really becomes available if you don't look for it. There is way too much "look the other way" when it comes to welfare fraud and other illegal acts.

I still want to know if there is a burial ground at the Eldorado compound and if there is, are all the graves unmarked.

Carol25

04-21-2008, 07:10 PM

Originally posted by walton
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=3132768

While the battle over the custody of FLDS children in Texas continues, so does the criticism that keeps getting poured onto Utah for not taking similar actions.

Inside the Utah Attorney General's Office, spokesman Paul Murphy says he's been getting critical calls and e-mails from all over the United States and from around the world. "One is: ‘Why don't you just arrest every polygamist?'" he said.

Some cable news talk shows have also been pointing a finger saying Utah hasn't prosecuted polygamy enough. Murphy says that's frustrating because he says they do and are investigating polygamist groups for child abuse and other crimes when information becomes available.

Maybe they should take a look at the Rick Ross website and get a few names off of there.

:cuss:

Maybe Utah and Arizona could start a payment plan and tll us how they are going to start paying back the Federal Governmet for allowing this go on for so long. Federal grants, Federal Program.

Hey Utah and Arizona just send my share to Texas.
Thank you
Love Walton [/*]
It would just be nice to see a non violent revolt in Utah and Arizona. "We're mad as He!! and we're not going to take it anymore!"

cloe23

04-21-2008, 07:10 PM

Originally posted by Carol25
Checked AP website and Drudge. The latest they have about the polygamists is the DNA story. Nothing about Sarah. Beginning to think it's not true.:(

They never said anything more on True Tv, did they? At least they could have given an update or said they weren't sure. [/*]

No! i really did hear it on TRU TV per Ashley Bandfield. What is her email? I can ask her more as she reported it today on IN Session.
Dont think it is not ture yet, maybe there keeping her in a safe house as she has opened up a CAN OF WORMS and very well could be in danger. Didnt she claim she was pregnat by her 1st cusion?
I would never post something that was not true.
It was during an interview with the reporter in TX, I took notes so I would be sure to get down the correct info.
There are not going to want the COMPOUND to know who Sarah is, but they probably do.
If she is under 18 then she is with all the kids, in with the rest of the cult. Heck wouldnt be hard to find a pregnat 15yrs old

The notes I took this morning during this interview stated 'the identity of the person of interest who made the phone call has been indentified'

Poochie Pie

04-21-2008, 07:12 PM

Originally posted by walton
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=3132768

While the battle over the custody of FLDS children in Texas continues, so does the criticism that keeps getting poured onto Utah for not taking similar actions.

Inside the Utah Attorney General's Office, spokesman Paul Murphy says he's been getting critical calls and e-mails from all over the United States and from around the world. "One is: ‘Why don't you just arrest every polygamist?'" he said.

Some cable news talk shows have also been pointing a finger saying Utah hasn't prosecuted polygamy enough. Murphy says that's frustrating because he says they do and are investigating polygamist groups for child abuse and other crimes when information becomes available.

Maybe they should take a look at the Rick Ross website and get a few names off of there.

:cuss:

Maybe Utah and Arizona could start a payment plan and tll us how they are going to start paying back the Federal Governmet for allowing this go on for so long. Federal grants, Federal Program.

Hey Utah and Arizona just send my share to Texas.
Thank you
Love Walton [/*] Great post, walton..!! I find it very strange that a lot of Agencies seem to be heading towards the "We had no idea what was going on in there" excuse.... It is common knowledge that we have Satellites that can zoom down and read the license plate on your Car and detect the melting Hershey bar on your dashboard... This "Community" is not hidden away 200 miles back in a jungle... It is pretty much out in the open.. I will be anxious to see what develops in the coming days.. IMO

Poochie

Carol25

04-21-2008, 07:18 PM

Originally posted by cloe23

No! i really did hear it on TRU TV per Ashley Bandfield. What is her email? I can ask her more as she reported it today on IN Session.
Dont think it is not ture yet, maybe there keeping her in a safe house as she has opened up a CAN OF WORMS and very well could be in danger. Didnt she claim she was pregnat by her 1st cusion?
I would never post something that was not true.
It was during an interview with the reporter in TX, I took notes so I would be sure to get down the correct info.
There are not going to want the COMPOUND to know who Sarah is, but they probably do.
If she is under 18 then she is with all the kids, in with the rest of the cult. Heck wouldnt be hard to find a pregnat 15yrs old. [/*]
Oh, Cloe, I wasn't doubting you! LOL I was mad at TRue TV for not updating the information! How dare they put something out there and just leave us hanging! The least they could do, is further updates when they become available, or our sources are now questioning the information...but they just let it hang. It wasn't you! I know you heard it!:D Sorry if you mistook my message. Truly Sorry!

Carol25

04-21-2008, 07:20 PM

Originally posted by Ladyhawk
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by walton
~~~snip~~~
Some cable news talk shows have also been pointing a finger saying Utah hasn't prosecuted polygamy enough. Murphy says that's frustrating because he says they do and are investigating polygamist groups for child abuse and other crimes when information becomes available.

~~~snip~~~

Ah...there's the caveat...when information becomes available. Information just never really becomes available if you don't look for it. There is way too much "look the other way" when it comes to welfare fraud and other illegal acts.

I still want to know if there is a burial ground at the Eldorado compound and if there is, are all the graves unmarked. [/*]
And where are all of the old ladies? We see pictures of old men....

Ladyhawk

04-21-2008, 07:27 PM

I don't think they allow old ladies Carol.

TrishR

04-21-2008, 07:35 PM

I have a question - how do we know that the kids belong to the women who are claiming ot be their mothers? I read 130+ of the youngest kids have no birth certificates. Then, there's the FDLS practice of reassigning wives & kids to other husbands to punish men. Also, I've read that, especially with the minor-age moms, babies are sent to live in other households [to prevent moms scooping up their kids & running]. The kids themselves may not know who their parents are.

In light of the danger to minors - exemplified by pregnant teens as young as 13, I don't think any of the kids should be handed back to any FDLS member until that person proves the child is their biological child.

Especially creepy - women on TV claiming to be moms separated from their kids. But no men trying to access their kids or make their case onTV. Especially when the FDLS has such a history of women avoiding contact with outsiders.

Like an earlier poster, I am appalled that this group keeps their members so ignorant of American democracy that they think their prophet is the U.S. president, but they cry for their American rights when they think it will serve their desires.

Also, how does FDLS convince these people the prophet is president? Do they have mock elections? Aren't even many of the adults being deprived of their constitutional rights?

walton

04-21-2008, 07:39 PM

Originally posted by Carol25

And where are all of the old ladies? We see pictures of old men.... [/*]

Define old. :( Some of the coverage I had seen there were some ladies that were quite a bit older than those in front of the cameras.

I am sure it sickened some of the older ones to no end to have the Ranch opened up to the "outsiders".

Remember these people that are at the Ranch are the Chosen ones. Look at all the ones left behind in Colorado City and Hilldale.

I am sure the older ones might have been there to quiet the issues amongst the ladies.

There were quite a few interviewed(from Colorado City) about their feelings on the Raid and they talked about Short Creek in 1953.

walton

04-21-2008, 07:43 PM

Originally posted by Carol25

It would just be nice to see a non violent revolt in Utah and Arizona. "We're mad as He!! and we're not going to take it anymore!" [/*]

It would never happen.

They first would have to recognize the history of the FLDS.

And then they would have to come to terms with the fact that they truly haven't done what they should.

Some glass houses would crumble and some houses made of gold would be tarnished.

jmo

Carol25

04-21-2008, 07:44 PM

Originally posted by TrishR
I have a question - how do we know that the kids belong to the women who are claiming ot be their mothers? I read 130+ of the youngest kids have no birth certificates. Then, there's the FDLS practice of reassigning wives & kids to other husbands to punish men. Also, I've read that, especially with the minor-age moms, babies are sent to live in other households [to prevent moms scooping up their kids & running]. The kids themselves may not know who their parents are.

In light of the danger to minors - exemplified by pregnant teens as young as 13, I don't think any of the kids should be handed back to any FDLS member until that person proves the child is their biological child.

Especially creepy - women on TV claiming to be moms separated from their kids. But no men trying to access their kids or make their case onTV. Especially when the FDLS has such a history of women avoiding contact with outsiders.

Like an earlier poster, I am appalled that this group keeps their members so ignorant of American democracy that they think their prophet is the U.S. president, but they cry for their American rights when they think it will serve their desires.

Also, how does FDLS convince these people the prophet is president? Do they have mock elections? Aren't even many of the adults being deprived of their constitutional rights? [/*]
What makes you think they ever hear of the word "election." That wouldn't fit into their world.
Of course these people are being deprived of their constitutional rights. The women and children have no rights at all.
They think the propheet is President because that's they are told. I doubt if they know there are 50 states let alone a world of countries. They only know what they have been told. It's scary, isn't it?

walton

04-21-2008, 07:46 PM

Originally posted by Ladyhawk
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by walton
~~~snip~~~
Some cable news talk shows have also been pointing a finger saying Utah hasn't prosecuted polygamy enough. Murphy says that's frustrating because he says they do and are investigating polygamist groups for child abuse and other crimes when information becomes available.

~~~snip~~~

Ah...there's the caveat...when information becomes available. Information just never really becomes available if you don't look for it. There is way too much "look the other way" when it comes to welfare fraud and other illegal acts.

I still want to know if there is a burial ground at the Eldorado compound and if there is, are all the graves unmarked. [/*]

They found two. One grave was from one of Warren Jeffs wife that died of Cancer. The other was of a small child that was killed in an accident.

2 deaths in four years?

I am wondering where the famous Doctor of the Compound was during this raid? I wonder what kind of records he has in his makeshift office?

Hmmm

Ladyhawk

04-21-2008, 07:46 PM

I'm gonna define old as NOT ME.....no really, I'm thinking elderly....85+.

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 07:47 PM

Originally posted by TrishR
I have a question - how do we know that the kids belong to the women who are claiming ot be their mothers? I read 130+ of the youngest kids have no birth certificates. Then, there's the FDLS practice of reassigning wives & kids to other husbands to punish men. Also, I've read that, especially with the minor-age moms, babies are sent to live in other households [to prevent moms scooping up their kids & running]. The kids themselves may not know who their parents are.

In light of the danger to minors - exemplified by pregnant teens as young as 13, I don't think any of the kids should be handed back to any FDLS member until that person proves the child is their biological child.

Especially creepy - women on TV claiming to be moms separated from their kids. But no men trying to access their kids or make their case onTV. Especially when the FDLS has such a history of women avoiding contact with outsiders.

Like an earlier poster, I am appalled that this group keeps their members so ignorant of American democracy that they think their prophet is the U.S. president, but they cry for their American rights when they think it will serve their desires.

Also, how does FDLS convince these people the prophet is president? Do they have mock elections? Aren't even many of the adults being deprived of their constitutional rights? [/*]

You got that right sistah!!! You nailed it! :beer:

Makes you wonder why they need to lie for the lord when they apply for their welfare handouts! Wouldn't their 'president' be taking care of them instead of them giving their welfare money to their 'president'?

:shrug: They are the product of a life time of brainwashing. Did you guys watch/listen to the Warren Jeffs trial? Those 'lesson' tapes he makes for his followers to listen to are typical brainwashing.

He speaks in a low monotone voice. It is hypnotic. I remember when a lot of us were watching and posting about that trial we joked about having to slap ourselves out of a trance when those tapes were played in court.

It's scary stuff I tell ya!!

Katy

walton

04-21-2008, 07:49 PM

Originally posted by Carol25

What makes you think they ever hear of the word "election." That wouldn't fit into their world.
Of course these people are being deprived of their constitutional rights. The women and children have no rights at all.
They think the propheet is President because that's they are told. I doubt if they know there are 50 states let alone a world of countries. They only know what they have been told. It's scary, isn't it? [/*]

In the film Banking on Heaven I think it was mentioned that they vote in mass groups. Surprise surprise.

Carol25

04-21-2008, 07:51 PM

Originally posted by walton

It would never happen.

They first would have to recognize the history of the FLDS.

And then they would have to come to terms with the fact that they truly haven't done what they should.

Some glass houses would crumble and some houses made of gold would be tarnished.

jmo [/*]
I'm not talking about the elected officials, I talking about John Q. Public speaking out and saying you will all lose your jobs if something is done pretty darn quick! Legislators should take notice (federal and state, sheriffs, judges and LE. Demonstrations, voter registration organizers,, letter writing campaigns, the people have to stand up en mass.
There has never been a better time!

walton

04-21-2008, 07:52 PM

Originally posted by Ladyhawk
I'm gonna define old as NOT ME.....no really, I'm thinking elderly....85+. [/*]

I remember reading that some people were looking for lost relatives, parents, grandpas, uncles, aunts etc.

These folks get the word from Warren that they have to repent from afar and they leave. That's it. Up and gone. Some never to be seen again.

Carol25

04-21-2008, 07:53 PM

Originally posted by walton

In the film Banking on Heaven I think it was mentioned that they vote in mass groups. Surprise surprise. [/*]
I stand corrected. So that's how some of those clowns get reelected!

Ladyhawk

04-21-2008, 07:54 PM

Originally posted by KatyDid

You got that right sistah!!! You nailed it! :beer:

Makes you wonder why they need to lie for the lord when they apply for their welfare handouts! Wouldn't their 'president' be taking care of them instead of them giving their welfare money to their 'president'?

:shrug: They are the product of a life time of brainwashing. Did you guys watch/listen to the Warren Jeffs trial? Those 'lesson' tapes he makes for his followers to listen to are typical brainwashing.

He speaks in a low monotone voice. It is hypnotic. I remember when a lot of us were watching and posting about that trial we joked about having to slap ourselves out of a trance when those tapes were played in court.

It's scary stuff I tell ya!!

Katy [/*]

I know what you mean...I was listening to one on youtube today meant for girls ages 5 to 10 on celestial marriage and caught myself zoning out. He's a real piece of work!

Carol25

04-21-2008, 07:55 PM

Originally posted by walton

I remember reading that some people were looking for lost relatives, parents, grandpas, uncles, aunts etc.

These folks get the word from Warren that they have to repent from afar and they leave. That's it. Up and gone. Some never to be seen again. [/*]
Do you mean they are treated like the "Lost Boys?"

Mimi428

04-21-2008, 07:57 PM

Originally posted by Carol25

And where are all of the old ladies? We see pictures of old men.... [/*]

That's what I want to know! How much you want to bet that there are very few, if any, women there who are past childbearing age? I wonder where they send the women at that point in their lives? A 50 year old woman would have no value for increasing the numbers - a 50 year old man, on the other hand. . .

walton

04-21-2008, 07:58 PM

Originally posted by Carol25

I'm not talking about the elected officials, I talking about John Q. Public speaking out and saying you will all lose your jobs if something is done pretty darn quick! Legislators should take notice (federal and state, sheriffs, judges and LE. Demonstrations, voter registration organizers,, letter writing campaigns, the people have to stand up en mass.
There has never been a better time! [/*]

I surely mean no offense in what I am about to say but I believe that the majority of Utah is at least 90% LDS faith.

Anyone please correct me if I am wrong.

walton

04-21-2008, 08:00 PM

Originally posted by Carol25

Do you mean they are treated like the "Lost Boys?" [/*]

Who knows? They are gone. Not a clue. No one answers any questions.

Carol25

04-21-2008, 08:00 PM

Originally posted by KatyDid

You got that right sistah!!! You nailed it! :beer:

Makes you wonder why they need to lie for the lord when they apply for their welfare handouts! Wouldn't their 'president' be taking care of them instead of them giving their welfare money to their 'president'?

:shrug: They are the product of a life time of brainwashing. Did you guys watch/listen to the Warren Jeffs trial? Those 'lesson' tapes he makes for his followers to listen to are typical brainwashing.

He speaks in a low monotone voice. It is hypnotic. I remember when a lot of us were watching and posting about that trial we joked about having to slap ourselves out of a trance when those tapes were played in court.

It's scary stuff I tell ya!!

Katy [/*]
Hi Katy!:seeya: Yeah, that's real scary. Imagine going through years of that. That's how you make those robots! The only ones that make it through semi normal are the ones who don't pay attention! Something positive about ADD!

spirit07

04-21-2008, 08:01 PM

Originally posted by walton
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=3132768
Some cable news talk shows have also been pointing a finger saying Utah hasn't prosecuted polygamy enough. Murphy says that's frustrating because he says they do and are investigating polygamist groups for child abuse and other crimes when information becomes available. (snip) [/*]

Gotta wonder why they've never tried to investigate those unmarked graves, investigate boys being dumped all over, investigate the behavior of polygamous cops, and so forth. Of course, it's difficult (now).

Carol25

04-21-2008, 08:04 PM

walton

04-21-2008, 08:04 PM

Originally posted by Carol25

I stand corrected. So that's how some of those clowns get reelected! [/*]

:D

Just think of all the donations.

eek:

I am going to do some digging on some of those missing relatives. And some digging on that accident out at the farm. I thought that there were more than one that died.

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 08:05 PM

Originally posted by Carol25

Hi Katy!:seeya: Yeah, that's real scary. Imagine going through years of that. That's how you make those robots! The only ones that make it through semi normal are the ones who don't pay attention! Something positive about ADD! [/*]

Hiya Carol :seeya:

Great to be posting with you again!

:D yes indeed about the ADD!

xray ra

04-21-2008, 08:05 PM

Originally posted by walton

I surely mean no offense in what I am about to say but I believe that the majority of Utah is at least 90% LDS faith.

Anyone please correct me if I am wrong. [/*]
All I know is that it's hard to find a drink there unless you're in Salt Lake City or the ski areas. And then, it's still pretty controlled:beer:

Now I have GOT to go and make dinner and have a drink. Be back later.

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 08:14 PM

Originally posted by walton

Who knows? They are gone. Not a clue. No one answers any questions. [/*]

Sad, so sad~

Do the children on these compounds know what a grandmother is?

:(

cloe23

04-21-2008, 08:18 PM

Katiedid posted a link about a mother filing suit wanting the mothers to be able to brest feed their babies, got me thinking.
If all the women are the 'mothers' im sure they all have breast milk and nurse each other babies all the time. Not right, imo.
But......... Having been a breast feeder once, can't imagine the pain those women full of milk are in right now. I spose it would be a sin to pump. Heck their all going to end up with infections.
And without medical attention it cant be pretty. :confused:

Carol25

04-21-2008, 08:19 PM

Originally posted by KatyDid

Sad, so sad~

Do the children on these compounds know what a grandmother is?

:( [/*]
It just seems the more we know, the sadder it gets, doesn't it?

Carol25

04-21-2008, 08:25 PM

Originally posted by walton

:D

Just think of all the donations.

eek:

I am going to do some digging on some of those missing relatives. And some digging on that accident out at the farm. I thought that there were more than one that died. [/*]
You know, when the House takes the time to investigate baseball, you would think that this would be a much more important issue. I know theres some Utah senators and House members that would not be happy, but if a miracle could happen and someone would call for an investigation.....

I know, let's all write Bill Gates and ask him to start a media blitz calling for people to write their representatives and force Pelosi into asking for an investigation.......Commercials on every network, full page ads in every major newspaper in America! Yeah! :D

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 08:27 PM

Originally posted by Carol25

It just seems the more we know, the sadder it gets, doesn't it? [/*]

Yes it does. Just think, we have all these questions and the local AZ & UT LE don't have any. They keep saying nobody has made a complaint. That just isn't true. There are plenty of documented complaints that they have turned a blind eye to.

Carol25

04-21-2008, 08:29 PM

Originally posted by KatyDid

Yes it does. Just think, we have all these questions and the local AZ & UT LE don't have any. They keep saying nobody has made a complaint. That just isn't true. There are plenty of documented complaints that they have turned a blind eye to. [/*]
Better hope in AZ. Look at Walton's post.

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 08:30 PM

Originally posted by cloe23
Katiedid posted a link about a mother filing suit wanting the mothers to be able to brest feed their babies, got me thinking.
If all the women are the 'mothers' im sure they all have breast milk and nurse each other babies all the time. Not right, imo.
But......... Having been a breast feeder once, can't imagine the pain those women full of milk are in right now. I spose it would be a sin to pump. Heck their all going to end up with infections.
And without medical attention it cant be pretty. :confused: [/*]

:eek: Now you got me thinking. I didn't think about the pain from not breast feeding. So is their concern for their babies or for themselves?

That was mean of me. I know they miss their children. It just seemed that would have been a complaint in the first days if they were concerned about their children. But they wait until the milk is causing them pain to get the TRO.

:hat:

Devotion

04-21-2008, 08:37 PM

Originally posted by walton
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=3132768

While the battle over the custody of FLDS children in Texas continues,
so does the criticism that keeps getting poured onto Utah for not taking similar actions.

Inside the Utah Attorney General's Office, spokesman Paul Murphy says he's been getting critical calls and e-mails from all over the United States and from around the world.
"One is: ‘Why don't you just arrest every polygamist?'" he said.

Some cable news talk shows have also been pointing a finger saying Utah hasn't prosecuted polygamy enough.
Murphy says that's frustrating because he says they do and are investigating polygamist groups for
child abuse
and other crimes when information becomes available.

Maybe they should take a look at the Rick Ross website and get a few names off of there.

:cuss:
Maybe Utah and Arizona could start a payment plan and tell us how they are going to start paying back

the Federal Government for ALLOWING this to go on for SO LONG... Federal grants,.. Federal Programs.

Hey Utah and Arizona just send my share to Texas.
Thank you
Love Walton.... [/*]

Thanks for the information.....mho

evalles

04-21-2008, 08:37 PM

Originally posted by Debb

CPS will generally allow a child to stay in the custody of one parent if that parent is not conducting or condoning the abuse and signs a Protective Agreement to not allow the alleged abuser near the child pending completion of the full investigation. However, that is not possible here because the mothers deny there was any abuse and I believe show no ability to abide by a protective agreement over there husband's demands.

These mothers are not trustworthy. I believe they have no idea that they can make any decisions for themself. Thank God, some of the mothers went to a shelter to receive protection and hopefully some information.

The children's safety is more important than the mothers' broken hearts. I know the children are probably scared and confused, however, abuse causes fear and confusion in children as well. There has to be safeguards taken when parents are blind to what harm they are doing to their children.

I think when they get the DNA results, there will be a clearer picture of how many grown men have fathered girls under 16. Who is responsible for this.....the men, the parents, the mothers who allow it? Perhaps the criminal statutes of Texas will dictate the answer. [/*]

You mean they have to admit to abuse to see their children ?
Wouldn't that give the state ammunition to keep their children ?
I'm sure the children's hearts are broken too.
CPS can allow supervised visitiation. Or visits at a therapists office.

Details

04-21-2008, 08:45 PM

awareness

04-21-2008, 08:52 PM

Originally posted by Debb
<snip>Thank God, some of the mothers went to a shelter to receive protection and hopefully some information. <snip>
[/*]
Unfortunatley though those mothers left the shelter after they got there.

JMO/IMO

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 08:56 PM

Originally posted by GollyGeeWhiz

Not to mention all the PCs, laptops, thumbdrives, external harddrives, laptop cases, etc.

I'm trying to imagine why people who can barely form complete sentences need all that technology. [/*]

Makes you wonder what kind of 'parental controls' are on those computers since they are so unaware of what the laws are?

cloe23

04-21-2008, 08:59 PM

Originally posted by KatyDid

:eek: Now you got me thinking. I didn't think about the pain from not breast feeding. So is their concern for their babies or for themselves?

That was mean of me. I know they miss their children. It just seemed that would have been a complaint in the first days if they were concerned about their children. But they wait until the milk is causing them pain to get the TRO.

:hat: [/*]

Your not mean, imo. We are living in society and having it going on. Any mother that would not let her child know who it's mother is, dose not got it going on.imo. With the exception of addoption.

As well as letting any breast feeder feed their own child is something I would never allow. Even on my death bed, I would become a sinner in the eye of lds and my baby would get a bottle of fomula. The whole community is sick and wrong. I would love to be working in social services in TX right now! We cant say this for a fact ... but hello... If my hubbie would let me I would fly out tomorrow.
I have a gut feeling there are several mother full of breast milk.
It has to be a selfish act for that women to file suit, the mohtes are all sick and there is no medical attention. Just my gut feeling.

awareness

04-21-2008, 09:02 PM

Originally posted by GollyGeeWhiz

I'll step in even a little deeper water here ...

The thing that really bothers me about the Mormon faith is that from the outside looking in, it seems to be all about worshipping buildings, rules, regulations, certain lifestyles, and the word of mortal men - starting with Joseph Smith or whoever the founder was.

It seems to me that at the end of the day, God has very little to do with the Mormon faith.

In such a patriarchal system, it doesn't surprise me at all that things have gone off the rails. There are no checks and balances.

As the old saying goes, 'Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.' The men of the FLDS have all the power, and it has corrupted their entire worldview ... treating women as breeders, treating children as belongings, living outside the law, taking advantage of government programs, wholesale lying to anyone and everyone inside the sect and outside it, and on and on.

What part of any of that is reflective of the teachings of Christ?

Despicable. IMO. [/*]

IMO its not reflective of Jesus.

Joseph Smith, Jr., Founder of LDS who created The Book of Mormon, Doctorine & Covenants among others - stated that someaday "one mighty and strong" would "set order in the house of God". Warren Jeffs thinks he's "one mighty and strong". His father and FDLS leader before Warren, Uncle Rulon, also felt he was "one mighty and strong".

The whole FDLS community goes through a period of shock when their leader, who they are taught is basically a second coming of Christ per sey, dies. Proves he's a mortal man and not immortal with heavely powers. Of course, usually there's a successor who's been groomed to take his place - in this case it was Warren Jeffs, Uncle Rulon's son. There's been at least one time in the past though where 2 people will feel they are sucessor and the FDLS sect in Colorado City actually split at one point - with a group of people following who they felt was the "prophet" after the old one passed away.

I feel the LDS and FDLS beleive in God and all, but FDLS are taught to heed their leaders absolute will. Obediance is a virtute, girls are told to "keep sweet, no matter what". Never question leaders orders.

JMO/IMO

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 09:03 PM

Originally posted by Details
They aren't Amish - there's no problem with using a breast pump for these women, and freezing the milk for the child, hopefully giving it to CPS for use of their children. You notice refrigerators in the homes, the cell phones they used while in the CPS shelters to talk to the men - they can use technology. [/*]

Then why aren't they using them and giving the milk to CPS for the children? Why do they have to file a TRO against the state so they can breast feed the babies?

LLaFren

04-21-2008, 09:24 PM

cloe23

04-21-2008, 09:25 PM

Originally posted by Details
They aren't Amish - there's no problem with using a breast pump for these women, and freezing the milk for the child, hopefully giving it to CPS for use of their children. You notice refrigerators in the homes, the cell phones they used while in the CPS shelters to talk to the men - they can use technology. [/*]

I stand corrected. I wonder if they lable the milk that they freeze of if it is just a smorgousboard(SP?) for the babes when go back to the compound?barf

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 09:29 PM

Originally posted by LLaFren

TRO? [/*]

Temporary Restraining Order :seeya:

cloe23

04-21-2008, 09:29 PM

Originally posted by KatyDid

Then why aren't they using them and giving the milk to CPS for the children? Why do they have to file a TRO against the state so they can breast feed the babies? [/*]

And do they lable the bottles of milk????
If I was DCS I would dump the milk and bring on the bottles of fourmla. jmo

On the grounds that they cant identify what milk belongs to what baby.

LLaFren

04-21-2008, 09:34 PM

Originally posted by KatyDid

Temporary Restraining Order :seeya: [/*]

Thanks...

Anybody remember the bus? Is it time to bring it home?

hammer

Details

04-21-2008, 09:34 PM

Breast milk is pretty clean - you don't have to worry much about which to which baby. Your body protects it. Mothers who are done donate their frozen backup milk to milk banks for mothers of premies who cannot breastfeed. I'd imagine they could deal with it several ways.

But the mother's request for time with the kids for "prayer" that is unobserved, every day suggests to me that this isn't about milk nor full breasts (I remember how that hurts) - it's about continuing to monitor the kids, don't cooperate, don't tell the truth.

xray ra

04-21-2008, 09:36 PM

Originally posted by KatyDid

Then why aren't they using them and giving the milk to CPS for the children? Why do they have to file a TRO against the state so they can breast feed the babies? [/*]

IMO the TRO is just a tool used by the FDLS lawyers. The children have been separated from their mothers for over 2 weeks. I know when I stopped breast feeding my son at 6 mo old. I had no breast milk after about 2 wks.
Just another judicial ploy to make it look like these"poor women" are the victims, when in fact it is their children that are the victims. JMO IMO ect.....:punch:

And another thing, how can they be sure which "Mothers milk" belongs to which babies?:shrug:

walton

04-21-2008, 09:37 PM

http://www.ksl.com/index.php/index.php?nid=148&sid=3133419#

The FLDS has put their stuff on a web site. This must be what essie was talking about.

Hey you guys do me a favor. I am still having a hard time getting anything to play on my computer. Tell me what the video and the FLDS websites are all about ok?

hammer Bad computer. Bad bad computer.

xray ra

04-21-2008, 09:43 PM

Originally posted by walton
http://www.ksl.com/index.php/index.php?nid=148&sid=3133419#

The FLDS has put their stuff on a web site. This must be what essie was talking about.

Hey you guys do me a favor. I am still having a hard time getting anything to play on my computer. Tell me what the video and the FLDS websites are all about ok?

hammer Bad computer. Bad bad computer. [/*]

I don't leave my laptop anywhere near my DH. I know he will try to sabotage it so I can't post anymore!!!:biggrin:

evalles

04-21-2008, 09:49 PM

Originally posted by KatyDid

Then why aren't they using them and giving the milk to CPS for the children? Why do they have to file a TRO against the state so they can breast feed the babies? [/*]

This is hilarious. How dare these women file suit against the state ?
Do they owe the state something ? Why are they selfish for wanting to be with their babies ?

evalles

04-21-2008, 09:56 PM

xray ra

04-21-2008, 09:58 PM

Originally posted by evalles

This is hilarious. How dare these women file suit against the state ?
Do they owe the state something ? Why are they selfish for wanting to be with their babies ? [/*]

a. They are selfish by not putting the children ahead of their own "immortal souls". They could be with the children if they left the "ranch".
and No.2 Who said the babies were "theirs"? I have some serious doubts about the biologic relationships.

I do think the women could and should have supervised visitation with the children. After all, these "Mothers" are all the little ones know.
:( Still soooooooo sad, all around.

xray ra

04-21-2008, 10:01 PM

Originally posted by evalles

wasn't it just yesterday that the mom's of the kids under 5 were forced to leave. So, up to that point they were allowed to breast feed. [/*]

I didn't realize that those were the lawyers for the mothers that filed suit. Sorry, I missed where they forced to leave.

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 10:05 PM

Originally posted by LLaFren

Thanks...

Anybody remember the bus? Is it time to bring it home?

hammer [/*]

:seeya: I do!!

Carol25

04-21-2008, 10:07 PM

Originally posted by walton
http://www.ksl.com/index.php/index.php?nid=148&sid=3133419#

The FLDS has put their stuff on a web site. This must be what essie was talking about.

Hey you guys do me a favor. I am still having a hard time getting anything to play on my computer. Tell me what the video and the FLDS websites are all about ok?

hammer Bad computer. Bad bad computer. [/*]
I didn't read them. I just assumed it was hogwash. I was looking for "contact"" link. Of course there was none, so I guess I have to keep my thoughts to myself. :(

cloe23

04-21-2008, 10:07 PM

Originally posted by xray ra

IMO the TRO is just a tool used by the FDLS lawyers. The children have been separated from their mothers for over 2 weeks. I know when I stopped breast feeding my son at 6 mo old. I had no breast milk after about 2 wks.
Just another judicial ploy to make it look like these"poor women" are the victims, when in fact it is their children that are the victims. JMO IMO ect.....:punch:

And another thing, how can they be sure which "Mothers milk" belongs to which babies?:shrug: [/*]

Well according to one poster the women have fancy electric breast pumps. So they still would have plenty of milk, if they so choose.
And I agree, whos the momma and whos the breast milk belong too?
Who give a care about who the daddy is. These women will stop breast feeding and very well be knocked up in sixs weeks tops, is just another one of my opinions. More babies is what will follow. Guys are gonna have to use the older women not the teenagers if they want to do the will of LDS. And receive salvation.LOL If not they will go to :flamemad:

cloe23

04-21-2008, 10:12 PM

FLDS Church launches new Web sites
April 21st, 2008 @ 5:00pm
John Hollenhorst reporting

http://www.ksl.com/index.php/index....48&sid=3133419#

FLDS leaders have turned up the heat in their public battle with Texas officials. They've launched two Web sites offering an entirely new look at the raid on their ranch.

Crying girls, protesting boys and sobbing mothers: That's the imagery FLDS leaders are hoping to get into the public eye and into people's hearts. It's a surprising trend, a secretive group in 19th-century clothing going public, and going to war, with 21st-century technology.

Video captures one of the tense and tearful moments when cops escorted children and mothers from the FLDS ranch. "I don't want to go," one boy says.

These scenes are out for public consumption on a new Internet Web site. FLDS leaders abandoned their traditional stance of privacy a few days into the raid.

Spokesman Rod Parker is back in Utah after more than a week in Texas orchestrating media for the FLDS. "They really feel that they want to keep to themselves, and this is very uncharacteristic for them. But this is such an extraordinary circumstance that it required an extraordinary response," Parker said.

They opened their ranch gates to the media, and FLDS wives have done numerous interviews that were broadcast worldwide.

The FLDS Internet presence now includes an introduction to the faith. It shows the line of men claimed as FLDS prophets, stretching from Joseph Smith and Brigham Young to convicted felon Warren Jeffs.

There are previously unseen photos of armed agents inside the compound, tearful wives and children, and possessions disrupted by searchers. "We're trying to get people to see what's really going on down there, how barbaric it is," Parker said.

Texas officials have fired back in a media duel. "We have a setting within a compound where many of the kids seem to have been sexually assaulted, subject to abuse. Whenever you have a setting like that it's very important to remove all the children from that very dangerous setting," said Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott.

In the long run, FLDS supporters hope their images will turn the tide of public opinion, as happened after the last big raid in 1953. At minimum, they say they're trying to overturn negative myths and falsehoods about FLDS people.

"It's rumor, and now there's someone answering it, and I think, long-term, that's going to have a positive effect on the relationship of these people to society in general," Parker said.

Doing battle with the state of Texas is likely to be expensive, so maybe it's no surprise the FLDS Web site is openly soliciting contributions. Your credit card is welcome.

To view the two FLDS Web sites, click the related links.

E-mail: jhollenhorst@ksl.com

Details

04-21-2008, 10:15 PM

Originally posted by cloe23
....In the long run, FLDS supporters hope their images will turn the tide of public opinion, as happened after the last big raid in 1953. At minimum, they say they're trying to overturn negative myths and falsehoods about FLDS people. ... [/*]It's not the myths and falsehoods - it's the truths that are getting them in trouble with public opinion. The last big raid, the truth didn't much get out. This one, it is. And while some are willing to justify a 16 year old pregnant with her 4th child, very few, probably fewer than in 1953, will.

cloe23

04-21-2008, 10:19 PM

Originally posted by Details
It's not the myths and falsehoods - it's the truths that are getting them in trouble with public opinion. The last big raid, the truth didn't much get out. This one, it is. And while some are willing to justify a 16 year old pregnant with her 4th child, very few, probably fewer than in 1953, will. [/*]

Nice try to twist my words. This is a link that I cut and pasted for a poster who can't get it opened.
The above words are not from my fingers or thoughts. It is a link that I posted for a fellow poster.:rose:
With all due respect!

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 10:19 PM

www.fldstruth.org

The website doesn't work very well. I was able to get this from the home page.

"In as much as many lies have been placed in circulation about us; and knowing that truth must be the basis of all righteous considerations as pertains to the great redemption work of our Savior in these latter days; we seek to disabuse the minds of the honest in heart, of the deceptions inherent in reports from malicious and evil disposed persons. We make this effort to provide all inquirers after truth an opportunity to know the facts as to our doctrines, beliefs and teachings as given in the scriptures thru the Prophet Joseph Smith and his successors. In candid forthrightness we yearn as did the Prophet Joseph Smith to “Present the various events in relation to this Church in truth and righteousness as they have transpired or as they at present exist.” In all earnestness and humility we say as Jude, “That you should honestly contend for the faith that was once delivered to the saints.”

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 10:23 PM

This is a link on the website regarding the Texas women and children.

http://www.captivefldschildren.org/

"Welcome to Captive FLDS Children
This site was created by the FLDS people to help the innocent children that were living at the YFZ Ranch in Eldorado, Texas.
The Child Protection Services of the State of Texas has taken every child and now has them in State custody. This site will keep you informed of the latest information and events in relation to the innocent children being returned to their parents.

Many people have been asking what they can do to help. You can donate to help with the massive litigation costs associated with these lawsuits. Any help is greatly appreciated."

Aw, they want people to donate for the litigation costs. Maybe they should sell off some of their acreage in Texas since they decided they don't need it for hunting.

:mad:

Thing1

04-21-2008, 10:24 PM

Originally posted by evalles

wasn't it just yesterday that the mom's of the kids under 5 were forced to leave. So, up to that point they were allowed to breast feed. [/*]

The mothers of children under 5 are still there if they choose to be

ccnsd

04-21-2008, 10:26 PM

Originally posted by juliekan

And the mothers say they cannot pray unless someone monitors them? That is ridiculous...I do not believe that. [/*]

Believe it...It's called supervised visits and it's because they don't want any coersiveness, negative, or anything disparaging said to the children...usually parents(in CA) aren't allowed to see or have contact until the complaint and some recommendation to the court has been made. I had 2 kids the mother didn't get to see without "close" supervision for a year. The next 6 months was timed & monitored. Could get sticky.

cloe23

04-21-2008, 10:31 PM

I must share. As we all evolve with society. Now that the marriage material, baby making gals are gone. Could it be possible that the women in the compound will be taking on several husbands in order to have more children??? I do not see any other way to marry off the remaining boys, so they can reach salvation?

:shrug:
Also, anyone know if there is a link of the recording that Sarah made to 911? or is that states evidence?

Devotion

04-21-2008, 10:32 PM

Originally posted by xray ra
[*
a. They are selfish by not putting the children ahead of their own "immortal souls". They could be with the children if they left the "ranch".
and
No.2 Who said the babies were "theirs"? I have some serious doubts about the biologic relationships.

I do think the women could and should have supervised visitation with the children.
After all, these "Mothers" are all the little ones know.
:( Still soooooooo sad, all around. [/*]
IMO...
The problem I have with the "so called mothers" being with the children is: the women would continue to scare/ encourage the children to not say anything.

Before I forget the question, Where are all the grandmothers in this cult?

I am sorry but you can call it whatever you want but this isn't a religion!..imo

They call it religion but it is a cover-up for disgusting, illegal, and immoral, sick activities.

If this isn't a complete and total breakdown of the family unit then I don't know what is?
complete & total DISFUNCTION

You have women who can't speak their mind, make their own decisions, have no free will,
and are forced into arranged marriages against their own free-will, or feelings.

These women will say anything to keep themselves out of trouble with these old men.

They are completely and totally submissive and under absolute mind control of these men.
I don't believe a thing any of them say...

Where are all these "clean living, god-like perfect men? real "stand-up" guys aren't they.......jmo..moo

Details

04-21-2008, 10:37 PM

Originally posted by cloe23
Nice try to twist my words. This is a link that I cut and pasted for a poster who can't get it opened.
The above words are not from my fingers or thoughts. It is a link that I posted for a fellow poster.:rose:
With all due respect! [/*]I wasn't trying to twist your words, I was quoting a tidbit from the article you posted that I wanted to respond to - and respond to the FLDS's idea that they can talk their way out of this.

It was obvious that they weren't your words, but from the article from the phrasing, even if someone didn't read the thread and see the article.

It's the standard to snip, to avoid too much load on the forums by quoting long posts and articles.

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 10:39 PM

Originally posted by cloe23
I must share. As we all evolve with society. Now that the marriage material, baby making gals are gone. Could it be possible that the women in the compound will be taking on several husbands in order to have more children??? I do not see any other way to marry off the remaining boys, so they can reach salvation?

:shrug:
Also, anyone know if there is a link of the recording that Sarah made to 911? or is that states evidence? [/*]

It was two calls to the abuse hotline, one on Mar 29 and the last on Mar 30. I posted it a couple days ago. I'll go grab it and post it here.

cloe23

04-21-2008, 10:39 PM

Originally posted by KatyDid
This is a link on the website regarding the Texas women and children.

http://www.captivefldschildren.org/

"Welcome to Captive FLDS Children
This site was created by the FLDS people to help the innocent children that were living at the YFZ Ranch in Eldorado, Texas.
The Child Protection Services of the State of Texas has taken every child and now has them in State custody. This site will keep you informed of the latest information and events in relation to the innocent children being returned to their parents.

Many people have been asking what they can do to help. You can donate to help with the massive litigation costs associated with these lawsuits. Any help is greatly appreciated."

Aw, they want people to donate for the litigation costs. Maybe they should sell off some of their acreage in Texas since they decided they don't need it for hunting.

:mad: [/*]

If they paid taxes wouldnt they be able to have the right to an attorney in the accordence of the law? If you can not afford councel it is provided. But dont you need to be a tax payer? Maybe they are? Just wondering.:confused:

cloe23

04-21-2008, 10:41 PM

Originally posted by KatyDid

It was two calls to the abuse hotline, one on Mar 29 and the last on Mar 30. I posted it a couple days ago. I'll go grab it and post it here. [/*]

Where would she get the abuse phone number? Smart gal. imo

Details

04-21-2008, 10:43 PM

Originally posted by Devotion
IMO...
The problem I have with the "so called mothers" being with the children is: the women would continue to scare/ encourage the children to not say anything...[/*]Originally, the mothers were allowed to be with them - which is definitely not common practice in abuse cases, but an exception. I think CPS felt sorry for them, knowing they were and are the victims of abuse as well. But the mothers used cell phones to talk to the men, get orders, were interfering in the children telling the truth, so they were told they could not stay with the children anymore, given the chance to go to another safe place, or a ride to the compound. Most chose the compound.

They're a part of the problem. According to other past FLDS members, it takes a fair long time, to rebuild yourself after so long in captivity. They are victims - but they are also abusers and supporters of the abuse.

Details

04-21-2008, 10:45 PM

Originally posted by cloe23
If they paid taxes wouldnt they be able to have the right to an attorney in the accordence of the law? If you can not afford councel it is provided. But dont you need to be a tax payer? Maybe they are? Just wondering.:confused: [/*]I'm pretty certain you can have an attorney, court appointed, for free whether or not you are a taxpayer. It's a basic right, so there are no qualifications. The children aren't taxpayers, and they can have their attorneys too.

cloe23

04-21-2008, 10:46 PM

Originally posted by Details
I wasn't trying to twist your words, I was quoting a tidbit from the article you posted that I wanted to respond to - and respond to the FLDS's idea that they can talk their way out of this.

It was obvious that they weren't your words, but from the article from the phrasing, even if someone didn't read the thread and see the article.

It's the standard to snip, to avoid too much load on the forums by quoting long posts and articles. [/*]

It was obvious that they werent my words is for sure, lol

I just didnt want it to get sticky:)

It is apparent that I am usually a lurker.
Sorry:beer:

Details

04-21-2008, 10:47 PM

No problem. Don't worry about it.

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 10:48 PM

The affidavit and citation. Check out pages 2, 3, & 4 for information about Sarah's call.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/images/04/09/yfz.affidavit.pdf

I can't cut and paste because it is a pdf document.

cloe23

04-21-2008, 10:48 PM

Originally posted by Details
I'm pretty certain you can have an attorney, court appointed, for free whether or not you are a taxpayer. It's a basic right, so there are no qualifications. The children aren't taxpayers, and they can have their attorneys too. [/*]

TY:) Pretty clear to me now.

StickyBeak

04-21-2008, 10:49 PM

Originally posted by Details
Breast milk is pretty clean - you don't have to worry much about which to which baby. Your body protects it. Mothers who are done donate their frozen backup milk to milk banks for mothers of premies who cannot breastfeed. I'd imagine they could deal with it several ways.

But the mother's request for time with the kids for "prayer" that is unobserved, every day suggests to me that this isn't about milk nor full breasts (I remember how that hurts) - it's about continuing to monitor the kids, don't cooperate, don't tell the truth. [/*]

ITA. In the olden days there were "wet nurses" for feeding the babies of the rich royals. I know when I stopped, you bind yourself tight bra and breast pads, stay away from crying babies. A bit uncomfortable. These women IIRC don't even feed their own children, aren't the children passed on to another women who raises them? This whole thing is sick. I hope the DNA solves the case of who the parents are. If all related and in bred, my prayers go to these poor children of this sick sex club. And I hope the state can withdraw support to these "parents", the money will no doubt have to be used to medically support all the inherited bad genes and disease passed along to those who have no voice who will be housed to foster care or hospitals. I pray for a swift end.

walton

04-21-2008, 10:50 PM

Originally posted by cloe23
**snipped for length**

To view the two FLDS Web sites, click the related links.

E-mail: jhollenhorst@ksl.com [/*]

Thanks cloe. It was the above 2 links. I couldn't get them to work at the KSL site. But I got two of the inside links to work from Katy's post. ( Thanks Katy)

On my computer it said that the site is out of Canada. ( Don't ask me what part of my computer tells me that- I don't know. It just does.)

Wow!!

Rod Parker their lawyer is out of Salt Lake I believe. Man oh man.

Wonder what Merril Jessop had to say to his Prophet. Wow!!

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 10:52 PM

Originally posted by cloe23

If they paid taxes wouldnt they be able to have the right to an attorney in the accordence of the law? If you can not afford councel it is provided. But dont you need to be a tax payer? Maybe they are? Just wondering.:confused: [/*]

Over half a million dollars is paid in property taxes on the ranch very year.

If they don't work, I don't think they would be paying individual taxes.

I thought these 350 attorneys were working pro bono. Maybe that was just for the one hearing last week, and just for the children.

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 10:54 PM

Originally posted by walton

Thanks cloe. It was the above 2 links. I couldn't get them to work at the KSL site. But I got two of the inside links to work from Katy's post. ( Thanks Katy)

On my computer it said that the site is out of Canada. ( Don't ask me what part of my computer tells me that- I don't know. It just does.)

Wow!!

Rod Parker their lawyer is out of Salt Lake I believe. Man oh man.

Wonder what Merril Jessop had to say to his Prophet. Wow!! [/*]

I couldn't get the link on the ksl site to work either. I typed in the website addresses to be able to view them.

:seeya:

walton

04-21-2008, 10:59 PM

Originally posted by KatyDid
The affidavit and citation. Check out pages 2, 3, & 4 for information about Sarah's call.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/images/04/09/yfz.affidavit.pdf

I can't cut and paste because it is a pdf document. [/*]

Boy, your good. Where did you get that?

The woman in Colorado couldn't have known that there would be a Sara out at the compound. Even if she took a lucky guess she wouldn't have known if she would be there or not.

I think the woman in Colorado just made calls to Flora.

walton

04-21-2008, 11:04 PM

Originally posted by KatyDid

Over half a million dollars is paid in property taxes on the ranch very year.

If they don't work, I don't think they would be paying individual taxes.

I thought these 350 attorneys were working pro bono. Maybe that was just for the one hearing last week, and just for the children. [/*]

lol Isn't the property listed under one of those Allred boys? and maybe Wendall Nielson? Dang- they gotta be sweating.

No free labor, chores aren't getting done. Wonder where those guys are?

Hmm anything going on in Nevada?

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 11:06 PM

Originally posted by walton

Boy, your good. Where did you get that?

The woman in Colorado couldn't have known that there would be a Sara out at the compound. Even if she took a lucky guess she wouldn't have known if she would be there or not.

I think the woman in Colorado just made calls to Flora. [/*]

I am a good googler. I have to do a lot of Internet research for some of the work I do.

That is what I think too Walton. I think there are a lot of ironic things that have happened during this latest polygamy incident.

Hadn't Flora been carrying on a conversation with the woman in Colorado Springs for like 2 weeks?

I just don't see how the woman in Colorado could have given details about the Texas compound, and she told Flora she was in Colorado City. I don't think it is the same person who made the call to the abuse hotline.

Poochie Pie

04-21-2008, 11:08 PM

Originally posted by StickyBeak

ITA. In the olden days there were "wet nurses" for feeding the babies of the rich royals. I know when I stopped, you bind yourself tight bra and breast pads, stay away from crying babies. A bit uncomfortable. These women IIRC don't even feed their own children, aren't the children passed on to another women who raises them? This whole thing is sick. I hope the DNA solves the case of who the parents are. If all related and in bred, my prayers go to these poor children of this sick sex club. And I hope the state can withdraw support to these "parents", the money will no doubt have to be used to medically support all the inherited bad genes and disease passed along to those who have no voice who will be housed to foster care or hospitals. I pray for a swift end. [/*] Perfect..!!! Couldn't have said it better myself, StickyBeak.. IMO

Poochie

cloe23

04-21-2008, 11:11 PM

Originally posted by KatyDid
The affidavit and citation. Check out pages 2, 3, & 4 for information about Sarah's call.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/images/04/09/yfz.affidavit.pdf

I can't cut and paste because it is a pdf document. [/*]

Thanks for the link. I am sickened. Im watching Nancy Gracy now.
I want to find out if they lied on Trutv today stating they found Sarah.

Nancy just dosent not understand what it is like to be emotionally abused, or sexually abused. She acts so tough. These women are not thinking straight. duh:punch:
There are reporting that they have found 4 or 5 Sarah's on Nancy G.

Furthermore, the cell phone she used, was it a track phone or a regular cell phone where you recieve a bill with all the calls made and recieved? Now Nancy is talking about cell phones, gezze maybe I am more a Nancy then I realized. Sarah very well could be dead if they know she made those calls.
One guy on the show now is reporting that he left the compound he has 32 brothers and sisters. How can anyone defends this???
Hellohammer

spirit07

04-21-2008, 11:13 PM

walton

04-21-2008, 11:16 PM

Originally posted by KatyDid

I am a good googler. I have to do a lot of Internet research for some of the work I do.

That is what I think too Walton. I think there are a lot of ironic things that have happened during this latest polygamy incident.

Hadn't Flora been carrying on a conversation with the woman in Colorado Springs for like 2 weeks?

I just don't see how the woman in Colorado could have given details about the Texas compound, and she told Flora she was in Colorado City. I don't think it is the same person who made the call to the abuse hotline. [/*]

You are a good googler!

Yeah, Flora had like 40 hours of calls. But when AC did that piece on this, they showed her and that one guy in a vehicle and they were listening to one of her calls.

I think Sara called in Texas. And I think Rosie called Flora.

I think Sara is real. And it was Sara that gave the name of the hubby right? I gotta look again.

Does anyone know who Patricia Keate ?

Oh, Gov. Perry got the letter.

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 11:17 PM

Originally posted by walton

lol Isn't the property listed under one of those Allred boys? and maybe Wendall Nielson? Dang- they gotta be sweating.

No free labor, chores aren't getting done. Wonder where those guys are?

Hmm anything going on in Nevada? [/*]

I've been wondering who and how many visitors Warren is getting each day.

I remember Nielson's name in connection with the property. It was pruchased using one of the FLDS 'cover' company names. And the purchase was registered to be used as a hunting facility.

Yep I bet those guys are knee deep in scared excrement and burrowed down somewhere...Canada??

tisamystery

04-21-2008, 11:29 PM

xray ra

04-21-2008, 11:36 PM

OMG. Is it just me or is anyone elso po'ed w/NG show. Way too many commercials. And looping of video's and people yelling at each other. Even the TH's can't seem to get through a complete thought.!! Aaaarrrgg hammer

Oh yea, and that @#$ crawl.
just venting lol

cloe23

04-21-2008, 11:40 PM

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 11:46 PM

Originally posted by tisamystery

I have suspicions that these websites aren't legit and Hollenhorst may not have done enough investigation. In other words, he may have been suckered. If you take a look at them there's something very bogus about them.

I couldn't get any videos to play. The photos are all those available through the press - no "insider" shots or shots taken by members of the FLDS of the "beautiful life". The FLDS history is vague and the links for more info on the prophets are merely photos and names.

Methinks, and I could be wrong, some scammer has set up these sites and may collect a pretty penny from folks who send "donations" through paypal. [/*]

You might be right about that tisa. Both of the websites are poorly done. They load super slow and incompletely. I can't imagine their attorney in SLC wouldn't know somebody that could do a better job.

Thank for pointing out it could be a scam. :seeya:

evalles

04-21-2008, 11:49 PM

Originally posted by xray ra
OMG. Is it just me or is anyone elso po'ed w/NG show. Way too many commercials. And looping of video's and people yelling at each other. Even the TH's can't seem to get through a complete thought.!! Aaaarrrgg hammer

Oh yea, and that @#$ crawl.
just venting lol [/*]

On NG I only saw the video on the two FLDS men that I didn't like.
Did they show the 3rd man that said he had one wife and two children and appeared normal ?
Or are they doing alot of selective reporting ?

Moe76

04-21-2008, 11:52 PM

evalles

04-21-2008, 11:52 PM

cloe23

04-21-2008, 11:53 PM

Originally posted by cloe23

:cuss: I with ya!:cuss: [/*]

KatyDid

04-21-2008, 11:56 PM

Originally posted by walton

You are a good googler!

Yeah, Flora had like 40 hours of calls. But when AC did that piece on this, they showed her and that one guy in a vehicle and they were listening to one of her calls.

I think Sara called in Texas. And I think Rosie called Flora.

I think Sara is real. And it was Sara that gave the name of the hubby right? I gotta look again.

Does anyone know who Patricia Keate ?

Oh, Gov. Perry got the letter. [/*]

I don't see the Barlow name mentioned in the affidavit, but then it wouldn't have to be. Texas LE were looking for him in connection with the call.

Patricia Keate was one of the persons visting Warren in prison just before the raid. She is also listed as a signature on the letter to the governor.

evalles

04-21-2008, 11:58 PM

Originally posted by xray ra

a. They are selfish by not putting the children ahead of their own "immortal souls". They could be with the children if they left the "ranch".
and No.2 Who said the babies were "theirs"? I have some serious doubts about the biologic relationships.

I do think the women could and should have supervised visitation with the children. After all, these "Mothers" are all the little ones know.
:( Still soooooooo sad, all around. [/*]

But they did leave the ranch to be with their children. They were staying at a shelter right up to the time they were forced to leave.
If they were so afraid for these kids, why were the mothers allowed to stay with them for 2 weeks after the were removed ?

emdragon

04-22-2008, 12:04 AM

I guess for once I really don't see how anyone can see two sides to this case.

Yes we believe in freedom of religion.
And we have a right to be protected from illegal government intervention in out lives.

I just don't see this as a religious issue or a parental rights issue.

I don't care how the raid came about because the bottom line is simple..

There were pregnant 13 yr olds.

Nothing else matters in this case.

The mothers be part of a multi wife marriage if they want for all I care but when they allow 11 yr olds to be married off it stops being about freedoms and becomes ABUSE plain and simple.

evalles

04-22-2008, 12:10 AM

Originally posted by xray ra

I didn't realize that those were the lawyers for the mothers that filed suit. Sorry, I missed where they forced to leave. [/*]

They asked to be placed in a facility where they could stay with their children.
There'll be a lot more motions by all attorneys, it's the way the system works.
It's like chess, they take turns. Whoever calls check-mate first keeps the kids.

evalles

04-22-2008, 12:18 AM

Originally posted by emdragon
I guess for once I really don't see how anyone can see two sides to this case.

Yes we believe in freedom of religion.
And we have a right to be protected from illegal government intervention in out lives.

I just don't see this as a religious issue or a parental rights issue.

I don't care how the raid came about because the bottom line is simple..

There were pregnant 13 yr olds.

Nothing else matters in this case.

The mothers be part of a multi wife marriage if they want for all I care but when they allow 11 yr olds to be married off it stops being about freedoms and becomes ABUSE plain and simple. [/*]

Something else matters, it's the 400 scared children that have been taken away based on some alleged pregnant 13 year olds.

This is what the state claims. They had the parent's atty on NG. He said the only evidence regarding a girl that young, was limited to one girl that is in her mid twenties now. He's there, I'm not.
I've heard alot of speculation, but the only thing I know for a fact is that there are over 400 children with total strangers at this very moment. If this is limited to a few cases, the state has over- stepped it's boundaries.

KatyDid

04-22-2008, 12:26 AM

Information about the ownership of FLDS properties.

http://www.myeldorado.net/YFZ%20Pages/YFZ102804.html

The man who purchased the FLDS property in Colorado, David Allred, is the same man who purchased the 1691 acres for the FLDS church outside of Eldorado, Texas. In both cases Allred told local residents that he was buying the properties to use as a corporate hunting retreat for entertaining clients.

There they go again...lying for the lord.

Lots more at the link.

walton

04-22-2008, 12:29 AM

Originally posted by tisamystery

I have suspicions that these websites aren't legit and Hollenhorst may not have done enough investigation. In other words, he may have been suckered. If you take a look at them there's something very bogus about them.

I couldn't get any videos to play. The photos are all those available through the press - no "insider" shots or shots taken by members of the FLDS of the "beautiful life". The FLDS history is vague and the links for more info on the prophets are merely photos and names.

Methinks, and I could be wrong, some scammer has set up these sites and may collect a pretty penny from folks who send "donations" through paypal. [/*]

Why would someone do this? The person that wrote the article is actually a good reporter. Can't these guys get into trouble?

I thought KSL and Deseret News were related somehow and both owned by the LDS. Does anyone know? :confused:

xray ra

04-22-2008, 12:30 AM

Originally posted by evalles

But they did leave the ranch to be with their children. They were staying at a shelter right up to the time they were forced to leave.
If they were so afraid for these kids, why were the mothers allowed to stay with them for 2 weeks after the were removed ? [/*]

I really don't understand why the mothers that wanted to stay w/their kids instead of returning to the ranch were denied that opportunity.

I think there are some cases where the mothers are with the children but the media is not being informed about that. And the women at the compound would never admit that any of their "sister-wifes" stayed away from the compound. If they stayed w/their children they probably have been excommunicated from the church by now JMO
:shrug:

KatyDid

04-22-2008, 12:34 AM

Originally posted by walton

Why would someone do this? The person that wrote the article is actually a good reporter. Can't these guys get into trouble? [/*]

Not so easy for them to get in trouble if they are located outside the U.S.

The site may be legitimate, but I think it is good tisa pointed out it might not be.

KatyDid

04-22-2008, 12:35 AM

KatyDid

04-22-2008, 12:49 AM

Originally posted by walton

Why would someone do this? The person that wrote the article is actually a good reporter. Can't these guys get into trouble?

I thought KSL and Deseret News were related somehow and both owned by the LDS. Does anyone know? :confused: [/*]

KSL is owned by LDS. Deseret has associations with LDS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KSL-TV

KSL-TV (Channel 5) is an NBC affiliate in Salt Lake City, Utah that broadcasts locally in analog on VHF channel 5 and in digital on UHF channel 38. A large translator network extends coverage throughout the state and into portions of Arizona, Idaho, Nevada, and Wyoming. KSL-TV is owned by Bonneville International Corporation, which is in turn owned by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. A sister station to KSL Newsradio (AM 1160 and FM 102.7), KSL-TV is also related to KBYU-FM-TV in Provo through Brigham Young University, also owned by the LDS Church. Live 5 WeatherPlus is offered through KSL's digital station.

So it would seem they might have the inside scoop.

KatyDid

04-22-2008, 12:53 AM

Deseret News is owned by LDS too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deseret_Morning_News

The editorial tone of the Deseret Morning News is usually described as moderate to conservative, and is often assumed to reflect the values of its owner, the LDS Church. For example, the newspaper does not accept advertising that violates church standards. However, it has taken liberal position on CIA secret prisons, as LDS Church leaders have openly censured any type of torture.[2]

walton

04-22-2008, 01:02 AM

Originally posted by KatyDid

Not so easy for them to get in trouble if they are located outside the U.S.

The site may be legitimate, but I think it is good tisa pointed out it might not be. [/*]

I agree. I am glad tisa pointed it out. And yes it does seem to get more interesting. jmo

Thing1

04-22-2008, 01:29 AM

Originally posted by evalles

Something else matters, it's the 400 scared children that have been taken away based on some alleged pregnant 13 year olds.

This is what the state claims. They had the parent's atty on NG. He said the only evidence regarding a girl that young, was limited to one girl that is in her mid twenties now. He's there, I'm not.
I've heard alot of speculation, but the only thing I know for a fact is that there are over 400 children with total strangers at this very moment. If this is limited to a few cases, the state has over- stepped it's boundaries. [/*]

The kids are with strangers in protective custody. They are being taken care of -- they are not being sexually abused, physically abused or forced into marriage with adult men. It is not limited to a few cases -- it is pervasive. And they were not taken away based on an alleged pregnant 13 year old who is now in her twenties.

evalles

04-22-2008, 01:39 AM

Originally posted by xray ra

I really don't understand why the mothers that wanted to stay w/their kids instead of returning to the ranch were denied that opportunity.

I think there are some cases where the mothers are with the children but the media is not being informed about that. And the women at the compound would never admit that any of their "sister-wifes" stayed away from the compound. If they stayed w/their children they probably have been excommunicated from the church by now JMO
:shrug: [/*]

I'll find the link, but they had to leave the children because they're being sent to foster homes.
They're not requesting the restraining order to bring the kids home at this point, it's to be allowed to stay with them.
Like I said, I'll find the link (I'm going to bed now)but I'm positive that they were forced to leave. They can't go to the foster homes with the kids.

evalles

04-22-2008, 01:39 AM

Originally posted by Thing1

The kids are with strangers in protective custody. They are being taken care of -- they are not being sexually abused, physically abused or forced into marriage with adult men. It is not limited to a few cases -- it is pervasive. And they were not taken away based on an alleged pregnant 13 year old who is now in her twenties. [/*]

How do you know ? Are you there ?

Details

04-22-2008, 01:40 AM

Originally posted by evalles
But they did leave the ranch to be with their children. They were staying at a shelter right up to the time they were forced to leave.
If they were so afraid for these kids, why were the mothers allowed to stay with them for 2 weeks after the were removed ? [/*]Because until it was proven otherwise by the mothers own actions, CPS assumed they were victims - they had the same emotions we have - pity for what happened to them, a hopeful optimistic belief that they were entirely unwilling onlookers, rather than brainwashed supporters.

lotty

04-22-2008, 01:42 AM

Originally posted by evalles

How do you know ? Are you there ? [/*]

How do you know they are not? Are you there?

evalles

04-22-2008, 01:42 AM

Originally posted by walton

I agree. I am glad tisa pointed it out. And yes it does seem to get more interesting. jmo [/*]

They're probably in Cameroon.
Someone from Cameroon was trying to sell non-existent puppies in a bunch of local papers. They were so cute. She had a maltese in one and a miniature bull dog in another. You could contact her via e-mail. I traced it to Cameroon.
The paper's had to print warnings.

Thing1

04-22-2008, 01:42 AM

Originally posted by evalles

How do you know ? Are you there ? [/*]

:cool:

xray ra

04-22-2008, 01:45 AM

Good night evalles, You will be in my prayers See ya tomorrow.:rose:

Details

04-22-2008, 01:46 AM

Originally posted by evalles
I'll find the link, but they had to leave the children because they're being sent to foster homes.
They're not requesting the restraining order to bring the kids home at this point, it's to be allowed to stay with them.
Like I said, I'll find the link (I'm going to bed now)but I'm positive that they were forced to leave. They can't go to the foster homes with the kids. [/*]They were forced to leave - given a choice of a ride to the compound, or being taken to a different shelter if they wanted (a few did). The reason, as I recall it, was not to send the kids to foster homes, but because the mothers were impeding the investigation. First they tried taking the cell phones away (since the women were getting direction from the men on what to do and say from the men over the phones), but that didn't do it, so the women were told they had to leave.

Details

04-22-2008, 01:48 AM

Originally posted by evalles
What were their actions and how do you know ?

Are you a private family law attorney or do you work exclusively as a GAL in Ohio ? [/*]I described it in my post above. And I know because it was reported - mainstream media. I know because I keep myself educated and aware of what is reported on this case.

Here's a link or so:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/04/13/national/main4011788.shtml
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/04/15/national/main4015270.shtml?source=search_story

There were better ones, but it's so hard to find anything with so many stories being written on this case.

Thing1

04-22-2008, 01:48 AM

Originally posted by Details
They were forced to leave - given a choice of a ride to the compound, or being taken to a different shelter if they wanted (a few did). The reason, as I recall it, was not to send the kids to foster homes, but because the mothers were impeding the investigation. First they tried taking the cell phones away (since the women were getting direction from the men on what to do and say from the men over the phones), but that didn't do it, so the women were told they had to leave. [/*]

The women who have children under the age of 5 are still allowed to be there with their children.

evalles

04-22-2008, 02:02 AM

Originally posted by Thing1

The women who have children under the age of 5 are still allowed to be there with their children. [/*]

OK, I know they were told they had to leave and that the children were going to foster homes. I know they requested a restraining order to preven the removal of the babies being breast-fed. Did the restraining order prevent the removal ?

Thing1

04-22-2008, 02:02 AM

Originally posted by KatyDid

Over half a million dollars is paid in property taxes on the ranch very year.

If they don't work, I don't think they would be paying individual taxes.

I thought these 350 attorneys were working pro bono. Maybe that was just for the one hearing last week, and just for the children. [/*]

The attorneys ad litem for the children are working pro bono. Many, most or all of the parents have hired attorneys - if they are indigent, they will be appointed an attorney if they request one, but I have not heard of that happening.

Thing1

04-22-2008, 02:03 AM

Originally posted by evalles

OK, I know they were told they had to leave and that the children were going to foster homes. I know they requested a restraining order to preven the removal of the babies being breast-fed. Did the restraining order prevent the removal ? [/*]

No, the judge did not issue a restraining order but said that each case needs to be worked out individually with CPS.

evalles

04-22-2008, 02:05 AM

Originally posted by xray ra
Good night evalles, You will be in my prayers See ya tomorrow.:rose: [/*]

Night, I'm really going to bed now. Gotta go to work so my children aren't neglected.

Details

04-22-2008, 02:06 AM

Originally posted by Thing1

The women who have children under the age of 5 are still allowed to be there with their children. [/*]Yep, but they're being booted soon, or already - just recently. They're protesting, and trying to prevent staff from walking in and hearing what they're saying to the children - one guess why...

evalles

04-22-2008, 02:08 AM

Originally posted by lotty

How do you know they are not? Are you there? [/*]

That means you don't know, right ?

evalles

04-22-2008, 02:10 AM

johnielee333

04-22-2008, 02:10 AM

these women should not of been able to be with them in the first place after they took the kids out of the ranch.

lotty

04-22-2008, 02:10 AM

Originally posted by evalles

That means you don't know, right ? [/*]

It means I don't know anymore about what is going on in Texas than you do. How much do you know?

Thing1

04-22-2008, 02:11 AM

Originally posted by Details
Yep, but they're being booted soon, or already - just recently. They're protesting, and trying to prevent staff from walking in and hearing what they're saying to the children - one guess why... [/*]

They havent been removed yet and I dont think there's an order yet for that to happen, but it will happen when the kids are placed in homes outside the coliseum. Visitation will be arranged on a case by case basis depending on the circumstances. Most of the mothers with infants are minors themselves and will remain in State custody, and will probably stay with their infants even after they are placed in temporary custody of foster parents.

Yes, of course they do not want to be monitored, but that is unrealistic and will not happen. As you said - visitation is supervised.. the children are supervised in all of their activities. They have been ordered designated times for prayer, but they will not be allowed to congregate privately without monitoring. Keep in mind there are teens there up to age 17 and they are perfectly capable of indoctrinating the younger children.

juliekan

04-22-2008, 02:36 AM

Originally posted by evalles

Night, I'm really going to bed now. Gotta go to work so my children aren't neglected. [/*]

Go to Bed! We'll still be here tomorrow...:)

ccnsd

04-22-2008, 02:49 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by johnielee333
these women should not of been able to be with them in the first place after they took the kids out of the ranch.

ITA, I'm surprised CPS hasn't got "all" mothers out of there by now.

juliekan

04-22-2008, 02:51 AM

Originally posted by walton

I agree. I am glad tisa pointed it out. And yes it does seem to get more interesting. jmo [/*]

Please post again the time line you had for after Sarah called and when those people visited Warren Jeffs in prison. Remember it sounded like a "road trip?" Maybe damage control, and get rid of her, and maybe where the 15 women that were off the YFZ compound were that day? GREAT time line. I'll be waiting :)

Details

04-22-2008, 02:52 AM

Originally posted by evalles
They like to breast feed in peace ? [/*]No - it was about a 'prayer' meeting - half hour in the morning, half hour in the evening they didn't want the staff to walk in on. Breastfeeding in private has not been said to be any problem.
The mothers' motion also asked the court for privacy while the children prayed, claiming that staff interrupted their prayers with vacuum cleaning and other distractions. And they objected to having state employees monitor the prayers.

Walther ruled that they could pray twice a day and said she would try to find Mormon monitors to ensure that the mothers aren't coaching their kids or discussing the ongoing litigation. "How would I stop someone from practicing their faith?" Walther said....

Rulan said sect members are reconsidering whether girls under 18 should have sex with adult men....A child protective services supervisor, Angie Voss, testified last week that children from the sect reported that no age was too young to get married and that they would get married whenever the church's "prophet" told them to. http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=4694487&page=1

ccnsd

04-22-2008, 03:42 AM

Who's Rulan? (Besides 1 of the 3 males on the Early Show)

Rulan said sect members are reconsidering whether girls under 18 should have sex with adult men.

"Many of us perhaps were not even aware of such a law," he said.:confused: "And we do reconsider, yes."
We teach our children to abide the law." :confused:

Anyone?

Freebird

04-22-2008, 08:39 AM

Originally posted by cloe23
FLDS Church launches new Web sites
April 21st, 2008 @ 5:00pm
John Hollenhorst reporting

http://www.ksl.com/index.php/index....48&sid=3133419#

FLDS leaders have turned up the heat in their public battle with Texas officials. They've launched two Web sites offering an entirely new look at the raid on their ranch.

Crying girls, protesting boys and sobbing mothers: That's the imagery FLDS leaders are hoping to get into the public eye and into people's hearts. It's a surprising trend, a secretive group in 19th-century clothing going public, and going to war, with 21st-century technology.

Video captures one of the tense and tearful moments when cops escorted children and mothers from the FLDS ranch. "I don't want to go," one boy says.

These scenes are out for public consumption on a new Internet Web site. FLDS leaders abandoned their traditional stance of privacy a few days into the raid.

Spokesman Rod Parker is back in Utah after more than a week in Texas orchestrating media for the FLDS. "They really feel that they want to keep to themselves, and this is very uncharacteristic for them. But this is such an extraordinary circumstance that it required an extraordinary response," Parker said.

They opened their ranch gates to the media, and FLDS wives have done numerous interviews that were broadcast worldwide.

The FLDS Internet presence now includes an introduction to the faith. It shows the line of men claimed as FLDS prophets, stretching from Joseph Smith and Brigham Young to convicted felon Warren Jeffs.

There are previously unseen photos of armed agents inside the compound, tearful wives and children, and possessions disrupted by searchers. "We're trying to get people to see what's really going on down there, how barbaric it is," Parker said.

Texas officials have fired back in a media duel. "We have a setting within a compound where many of the kids seem to have been sexually assaulted, subject to abuse. Whenever you have a setting like that it's very important to remove all the children from that very dangerous setting," said Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott.

In the long run, FLDS supporters hope their images will turn the tide of public opinion, as happened after the last big raid in 1953. At minimum, they say they're trying to overturn negative myths and falsehoods about FLDS people.

"It's rumor, and now there's someone answering it, and I think, long-term, that's going to have a positive effect on the relationship of these people to society in general," Parker said.

Doing battle with the state of Texas is likely to be expensive, so maybe it's no surprise the FLDS Web site is openly soliciting contributions. Your credit card is welcome.

To view the two FLDS Web sites, click the related links.

E-mail: jhollenhorst@ksl.com [/*]

Interesting that the kids didn't want to leave.