Daily Thread 4/21

[Freebird]

Originally posted by ccnsd


Believe it...It's called supervised visits and it's because they don't want any coersiveness, negative, or anything disparaging said to the children...usually parents(in CA) aren't allowed to see or have contact until the complaint and some recommendation to the court has been made. I had 2 kids the mother didn't get to see without "close" supervision for a year. The next 6 months was timed & monitored. Could get sticky. [/*]


It's called violation of church and state.

[Thing1]

Originally posted by Freebird



Interesting that the kids didn't want to leave. [/*]

Not really interesting or surprising, these kids' minds have been shaped to believe everyone on the outside (gentiles, as they call them) are wicked and filthy. The leaders have been preparing for this for a very long time. It will take some time to free the minds of these children.

Children who are severely abused still love their parents and still want to be with them. They cannot make those decisions themselves and they are not capable of deciding what is best for them ...which is why theyre appointed ad litems and advocates

[FoxySly]

Originally posted by walton
Why would someone do this? The person that wrote the article is actually a good reporter. Can't these guys get into trouble?

I thought KSL and Deseret News were related somehow and both owned by the LDS. Does anyone know? :confused: [/*]

Yes they do. The mormon's own a whole lot of media including TV stations, radio stations and newspapers.

I'm not going to google all they own, I did that a lot some months back on the religion forum so I will say IMO the mormon's own MUCH media.

Heck they own a lot of everything but owning all the media they do they can control it.

Sly

[sachae]

Originally posted by awareness

Unfortunatley though those mothers left the shelter after they got there.

JMO/IMO [/*]

I have been following this case very closely, are there any women still in the shelter with their young ones, or have they also gone back to the Ranch? If there are any at the shelter, I can understand why the media is not putting them in the fore front, because we do not need to make them afraid of what they may be in store for, I also hope that the staff at the shelter are making sure tha they are getting the needed and required help for them, as this is going to be very hard on them.

[evalles]

Originally posted by Thing1


Not really interesting or surprising, these kids' minds have been shaped to believe everyone on the outside (gentiles, as they call them) are wicked and filthy. The leaders have been preparing for this for a very long time. It will take some time to free the minds of these children.

Children who are severely abused still love their parents and still want to be with them. They cannot make those decisions themselves and they are not capable of deciding what is best for them ...which is why theyre appointed ad litems and advocates [/*]


Not really interesting or surprising, these kids' minds have been shaped to believe everyone on the outside (gentiles, as they call them) are wicked and filthy.
__________________________________________________ __

After this, I'm inclined to agree.

[evalles]

Originally posted by lotty


It means I don't know anymore about what is going on in Texas than you do. How much do you know? [/*]


Exactly, that's why I'm not judging the mothers.
What I've heard didn't justify the mass removal of every child, IMO.

[cloe23]

http://topics.cnn.com/topics/fundamentalist_church_of_jesus_christ_of_latter_da y_saints

Morning all :seeya:

Records point to 4 girls who could be sect's 'Sarah'
Authorities searching the compound of a polygamist sect in West Texas found a "cyanide poisoning document" among the dozens of items it seized during a weeklong search.

[evalles]

Originally posted by stptheracket
You seem to have kind of a soft spot for these women. I can kind of understand but I think as time goes on and more information comes out you may find that they really don't deserve the kindness you are showing them. I am waiting for the information to hit the news waves of the huge baby cemeteries that are located on the Arizona Utah border. The graves are unmarked and have always been a concern to people, all except authorities. They prefer to turn their heads and let the FLDS go about their business. Rumor has it that the FLDS have a very high infant mortality rate due to birth defects from inbreeding these deaths are not investigated. Nancy Grace mentioned last week that the children in custody have a high number of special need children. Make no mistake this is not a religion it is a cult. [/*]

Not for these women, for all mother's that lose their children.
The state is in a position to help them all, instead they'll destroy them IMO.

[cloe23]

Originally posted by evalles


Not for these women, for all mother's that lose their children.
The state is in a position to help them all, instead they'll destroy them IMO. [/*]

Well I am keeping a positive outlook with the outcome of the children. I feel the state of TX has a disaster on their hands and will need to request for federal assistance. Like when there is a flood and the town/state recieves funding and assistence.

[cloe23]

Originally posted by cloe23
http://topics.cnn.com/topics/fundamentalist_church_of_jesus_christ_of_latter_da y_saints

Morning all :seeya:

Records point to 4 girls who could be sect's 'Sarah'
Authorities searching the compound of a polygamist sect in West Texas found a "cyanide poisoning document" among the dozens of items it seized during a weeklong search. [/*]

BTW the above post/link supports my therory that there was indeed a Sarah and that the sect had knowledge of her and her actions.

[cloe23]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by evalles




Evalles see the below pdf file. You may feel differentlly.
Originally posted by KatyDid
The affidavit and citation. Check out pages 2, 3, & 4 for information about Sarah's call.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/im...z.affidavit.pdf

I can't cut and paste because it is a pdf document. [/*]

[cloe23]

Originally posted by Freebird



Interesting that the kids didn't want to leave. [/*]

Agreed, but that is what happens when one beomes a victim of abuse and brainwashing. They don't want to leave their abuser, its all they know. :mad:

[cloe23]

Originally posted by evalles


They like to breast feed in peace ? [/*]

Breast feeding the five year olds in peace! Not normal, they should be in school at five! Not still on the boob, for the love of food!
There is more too this, it is perfectlly normal to have supervised visits when children are being investagated by children services for abuse. I am sure the laws differ from state to state. I see nothing wrong and support supervised visits.
How would you feel if the daddies were wanting to come visit the 15year olds girls and have unsupervised visits?:confused:

[tisamystery]

daily thread 4/22 now open.

[Details]

Originally posted by Freebird
It's called violation of church and state. [/*]The separation of church and state means the exact and precise opposite of what you think it does. It doesn't mean that if you are a religion you get to break the law. It means that religions have to follow precisely the same laws as everyone else. No better, no worse.


So, no, they are not exempt from the normal CPS treatment of your kids being removed when you have them in an abusive environment.

[evalles]

Originally posted by cloe23


Breast feeding the five year olds in peace! Not normal, they should be in school at five! Not still on the boob, for the love of food!
There is more too this, it is perfectlly normal to have supervised visits when children are being investagated by children services for abuse. I am sure the laws differ from state to state. I see nothing wrong and support supervised visits.
How would you feel if the daddies were wanting to come visit the 15year olds girls and have unsupervised visits?:confused: [/*]

Did you not understand that mothers of 5 year old's are gone ?
The only mothers that were there had children under 4.
The restraining order they requested was specific to breastfeeding.

[evalles]

Originally posted by cloe23


Agreed, but that is what happens when one beomes a victim of abuse and brainwashing. They don't want to leave their abuser, its all they know. :mad: [/*]

It's also what children do when they love their moms.

[evalles]

Originally posted by cloe23


Well I am keeping a positive outlook with the outcome of the children. I feel the state of TX has a disaster on their hands and will need to request for federal assistance. Like when there is a flood and the town/state recieves funding and assistence. [/*]

They use your social security $$ to pay for children in foster care.
It's called Title IV funding. Google CPS or foster care and title IV.

I really hope that all the children CPS removes are at risk.
It'll make it easier to give up our social security check and live on the streets when we're old.

[evalles]

Originally posted by cloe23


Breast feeding the five year olds in peace! Not normal, they should be in school at five! Not still on the boob, for the love of food!
There is more too this, it is perfectlly normal to have supervised visits when children are being investagated by children services for abuse. I am sure the laws differ from state to state. I see nothing wrong and support supervised visits.
How would you feel if the daddies were wanting to come visit the 15year olds girls and have unsupervised visits?:confused: [/*]

But the dad's haven't asked for unsupervised visits.

[Details]

Originally posted by evalles
It's also what children do when they love their moms. [/*]And this is the dilemma of CPS and LE - this is why more police get hurt in domestic violence calls than any other type. Because it's hard to find the truth when what an abused but confused child says is the same as what a non-abused child will say.

The difference is in the evidence that shows the abuse.

Children are adaptable - given an abusive parent, they decide that spankings and beatings just mean that the parent loves them, and get upset when a foster family doesn't hurt them, because they feel unloved.

I'm sure they love their moms. That doesn't mean their moms don't abuse them, doesn't mean they aren't brainwashed as well. Children almost always love their moms. There are some here who can tell horrorific stories of childhood abuse - well beyond what even these children experience - and yet they have to admit the mixed feelings of loving their parents, while hating what they did. The one lost boy interviewed recently, tossed out on the side of a road, and he's still trying to give his mom a mothers day present. Abused kids still love their parents. It's hardwired into us.

[cloe23]

Originally posted by evalles


But the dad's haven't asked for unsupervised visits. [/*]

Thank Goodness. My questions to you was how would you feel if they did?
Just wondering how you might feel about a Dad being granted unsupervised visits, with the young teenagers say a 14year old girl?:confused:

They are going to have to do something the dads, as they need to continue to have children as this is what they have been taught from the first day of impoundment.

[cloe23]

Originally posted by evalles


They use your social security $$ to pay for children in foster care.
It's called Title IV funding. Google CPS or foster care and title IV.

I really hope that all the children CPS removes are at risk.
It'll make it easier to give up our social security check and live on the streets when we're old. [/*]

I am aware of title 19 and medicade. Not to be confused by medicare.
You might be surprised how many donations the state of TX will get from persons all around the US. Including the goverment.
In attempt to save these young mothers and their children.

Social Security checks and the people of TX being fourced to live on the streets is a theroy I will not entertain when it come to sexual abuse of children or any kind of child abuse at all. The two have nothing in common. 'the homeless vs. child abuse' jmo

[cloe23]

Originally posted by evalles


It's also what children do when they love their moms. [/*]

They don't know who their mother's are, remember from all the links and posts? This kids were being raised to call each elder women mother. If I remember correctly, I believe that is what has been posted.
Sorry don't have a link and I'm headed out to the garage now to look at my hubbies newly painted car parts, OT, sorry.:(

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by evalles


They use your social security $$ to pay for children in foster care.
It's called Title IV funding. Google CPS or foster care and title IV.

I really hope that all the children CPS removes are at risk.
It'll make it easier to give up our social security check and live on the streets when we're old. [/*]

I realize this is o/t, but I couldn't resist posting this.

http://oversight.house.gov/story.asp?ID=847

Each week, through FICA contributions from their paychecks, millions of Americans contribute to the Social Security trust funds, the federal 'nest egg' that provides for their future benefits.

Under the budget proposed by the Bush Administration, the government is expected to borrow over $2 trillion from these Social Security trust funds to pay for government spending over the next ten years.



IMO, the amount of SS $$ that might go to pay for these women and children to get the care and counseling they need is a mere pittance to what the government has borrowed to further their own agendas.

IMO, the amount of money used for the foster care system is like spitting into a bucket of the $2 trillion that will be squandered on less deserving projects.

[cloe23]

Originally posted by evalles


Did you not understand that mothers of 5 year old's are gone ?
The only mothers that were there had children under 4.
The restraining order they requested was specific to breastfeeding. [/*]

You are absolutly correct, once again I have been misunderstood:o

mistaken, wrong and incorrect is my middle name these days:punch:

[Thing1]

It is my understanding that all of the children have now been moved from the coliseum and pavillion in san angelo. They are being moved to group homes throughout the state. Minor mothers will be kept with their babies. All boys over the age of 8 will be together. Siblings under 5 will be kept together and to the extent possible all siblings will be kept together.

Mothers who are not minors and are not in state custody cannot stay with their children, even if the children are under 5.

[lotty]

Originally posted by evalles



Exactly, that's why I'm not judging the mothers.
What I've heard didn't justify the mass removal of every child, IMO. [/*]

So you are judging Texas CPS? Do you know anyone who works for Texas CPS? Have you heard everything to do with this case? Have you seen each child personally...JMO the state is not going to release photos of girls from the ages of 12 - 16 that might be pregnant, and I'm betting neither will the FLDS. So we can't judge the mothers prematurely, but we can judge Texas CPS?

[evalles]

Originally posted by lotty


So you are judging Texas CPS? Do you know anyone who works for Texas CPS? Have you heard everything to do with this case? Have you seen each child personally...JMO the state is not going to release photos of girls from the ages of 12 - 16 that might be pregnant, and I'm betting neither will the FLDS. So we can't judge the mothers prematurely, but we can judge Texas CPS? [/*]

They're not Texas CPS's children.
Texas CPS isn't suffering right now.
Texas CPS's children weren't the ones that were loaded on the buses.
The state of TX are the ones persecuting the mother's not the other way around.
I'm not even saying that the mother's and children couldn't have benefited from CPS intervention, I'm saying that I don't think it was handled the right way.
But you know what ?
I don't care about CPS right now or even the mothers.
I'm watching footage of hundred's of scared little children being hauled off in buses while everyone's shouting "Woo Hoo".

[evalles]

Originally posted by cloe23
[QUOTE]Originally posted by evalles




Evalles see the below pdf file. You may feel differentlly.
Originally posted by KatyDid
The affidavit and citation. Check out pages 2, 3, & 4 for information about Sarah's call.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/im...z.affidavit.pdf

I can't cut and paste because it is a pdf document. [/*] [/*]

The link didn't work.
I want you to understand that I don't like this group. I think all the things they are accused of are vile and disgusting and I wouldn't allow my children within 100 miles of that ranch.
Not because I know it all to be true, but just in case.
However, that's because these people have no relation to me.
If they were family and I knew them and still trusted them it would be a totally different story.
My daughter always got mad that I would checkout her friend's parents before she was allowed to spen the night I checked the sexual abuse reg and also our county sites that list offenses, if I found something there, I'd check the board of prisons.
I realize my OCD kicks into overdrive when it comes to some subjects.

That said, I don't believe everything I've read and I know there was a way to go about this that would have done less damage to all involved. I do think their rights were violated, and I know if theirs were, mine could be next.
I hurt for these mothers and children.
If they love they're children half as much as I love mine, their dying inside right now.
And the kids are scared to death. They were not in imminent risk with the mothers.
IMO, they could have helped the moms & their kids and they did the exact opposite.

[cloe23]

Originally posted by evalles


RESPECTFULLY SNIPPED:
I'm watching footage of hundred's of scared little children being hauled off in buses while everyone's shouting "Woo Hoo". [/*]

Sounds like my first day of school when I was five, so many busses man I was scared. All the older kids where indeed yelling
"WOO HOO"
Guess what children adapt easier then adults. They are more adaptable then us 'grown ups'

I survived my first year of school, I adapted as well as my cohorts.
And to top it off I was not able to go home after school, the bus took me to a strangers home, where I stayed until my parents came to get me. But never knew when they were coming.
I adapted and so did my sister and brother.
Heck non of us even own guns, so ya gotta know we got it going on.....

:seeya::read: :rose:

[giddyupalw]

Sorry but I did not read this whole thread... but did anyone see Dr. Phil today??? He had a show on with the neice of Jeff... :mad: :eek: :mad:

[cloe23]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by evalles

Respectfully Snipped:
I do think their rights were violated,
*****

Darn skippy these childrens right have been violated! This is why they have been removed from the compound. HELLO

We must protect our children. #1 thing to do. They are going to be our future when we are older and in need. They are going to be the ones making our lives ok.

Do you not have a clue what it is like to be fourced to have sex with an elder? I will tell you sister, not pretty. Would you hold your daughter down on her wedding night?
Not me, no way, in fact I would protect her and with a mothers love and power it would not happen.
These mothers need to get some parenting education and knowledge that you can still have your faith but to follow the laws as well, not go by what any old dork or perv may write up.
Im sorry I know you love your kids, but you need to understand what these mothers have been taught is not normal.
They need out to get a education and learn to work outside the home in public, were not going to kill them or have sex with them agianist their will. They also need to learn to follow the law the rest of us are. (I would hope)

I post in peace!:rose:

[emdragon]

Originally posted by Freebird



It's called violation of church and state. [/*]

It's called rape of a child.
pure and simple and that is the only issue that matters in this case.

[evalles]

Originally posted by cloe23


Sounds like my first day of school when I was five, so many busses man I was scared. All the older kids where indeed yelling
"WOO HOO"
Guess what children adapt easier then adults. They are more adaptable then us 'grown ups'

I survived my first year of school, I adapted as well as my cohorts.
And to top it off I was not able to go home after school, the bus took me to a strangers home, where I stayed until my parents came to get me. But never knew when they were coming.
I adapted and so did my sister and brother.
Heck non of us even own guns, so ya gotta know we got it going on.....

:seeya::read: :rose: [/*]

Comparing you're first day of school to these children being sent to live with strangers is asinine.
I was referring to the posters that were saying woo hoo as they were hauled away.
At least you knew your parents were coming.

[Carol25]

Originally posted by evalles

(Respectfully snipped)

I hurt for these mothers and children.
If they love they're children half as much as I love mine, their dying inside right now.
And the kids are scared to death. They were not in imminent risk with the mothers.
IMO, they could have helped the moms & their kids and they did the exact opposite. [/*]
The time to hurt for those mothers was when they were children... when they were being brought up by robots who probably didn't know what love was, when they probably weren't held, nurtured or told who their real mothers were or heard "I love you."

When they were not allowed to think and make choices but to parrot scriptures and blindly follow,. When they were not permitted to explore, discover. read or enjoy things or people .

Then they should have been pitied. Now we have took look upon them as perpetrators of the the evil that was done to them. Now that they have children of their own, they are in control of molding their lives. The only way they know how. By doing what was done to them, by doing what is told to them.
That is why these children can't go back to their "mothers.

First consideration has to be for the children. Then when all is stabilized there, they should begin deprogrammng and parenting classes and teaching the ladies about feelings and how to love, only then will they truly be able to be called "mothers."

[cloe23]

Originally posted by evalles


Comparing you're first day of school to these children being sent to live with strangers is asinine.
I was referring to the posters that were saying woo hoo as they were hauled away.
At least you knew your parents were coming. [/*]

Using the word asinine too me sounds kinda toxic. But I will swollow. Glup
Anyway my friend, I bet you big bucks if you visit with those kids with backpacks and blankies that got on the busses in a few years they will be fine fine fine.
I actually took a blankie with me to school because it was required, as we had nap time. We were only five.
It was not a comparison is was a flash back.
I express in peace, remember? Settle Settle Settle Now!


:seeya:

[Freebird]

Originally posted by Thing1


Not really interesting or surprising, these kids' minds have been shaped to believe everyone on the outside (gentiles, as they call them) are wicked and filthy. The leaders have been preparing for this for a very long time. It will take some time to free the minds of these children.

Children who are severely abused still love their parents and still want to be with them. They cannot make those decisions themselves and they are not capable of deciding what is best for them ...which is why theyre appointed ad litems and advocates [/*]


So the advocates can then turn them against their parents.

[cloe23]

Originally posted by asurvivor

when I was being molisted I didnt want to leave either bc of the horriable lies I had been told ( what would happen to me) and because even thouh I had been molisted I still loved my abuser ( father) [/*]

Oh for the love of Jeffs...
When anyone is molested it is tragic! Something that can be delt with but never forgot. FACT
Sorry you had a bum deal but, you can over come it, trust.
:)
I respect your love but many arent in as good of place as you are in. bless

[Freebird]

Originally posted by evalles


Comparing you're first day of school to these children being sent to live with strangers is asinine.
I was referring to the posters that were saying woo hoo as they were hauled away.
At least you knew your parents were coming. [/*]


ITA...there is no comparison to this and kids going to school.When kids go to school,they know they will be back home in a few hours.To even begin to compare them is laughable.

[Freebird]

Originally posted by cloe23


Sounds like my first day of school when I was five, so many busses man I was scared. All the older kids where indeed yelling
"WOO HOO"
Guess what children adapt easier then adults. They are more adaptable then us 'grown ups'

I survived my first year of school, I adapted as well as my cohorts.
And to top it off I was not able to go home after school, the bus took me to a strangers home, where I stayed until my parents came to get me. But never knew when they were coming.
I adapted and so did my sister and brother.
Heck non of us even own guns, so ya gotta know we got it going on.....

:seeya::read: :rose: [/*]


Big difference.When you went to school,you knew you would go back home.Not to a strange and scary world.

[cloe23]

Originally posted by evalles


Comparing you're first day of school to these children being sent to live with strangers is asinine.
I was referring to the posters that were saying woo hoo as they were hauled away.
At least you knew your parents were coming. [/*]

Did I say I knew they were coming? I do not recall.
Anyway, If I did I had not a clue when it would be, sorry for posting incorrectly.
These families will be reunited, the reason for State intervention is to protect , educate and reunite in the best interest of the children.:rose:

[cloe23]

Originally posted by Freebird


Respectfully snipped...
When you went to school,you knew you would go back home.Not to a strange and scary world. [/*]

Thank you Freebird for setting me straight, settles alot of my ongoing issues.. Do You Feel Like I DO? :confused:

[cloe23]

Originally posted by Freebird



ITA...there is no comparison to this and kids going to school.When kids go to school,they know they will be back home in a few hours.To even begin to compare them is laughable. [/*]

What's that smell?

[cloe23]

Originally posted by Freebird



Big difference.When you went to school,you knew you would go back home.Not to a strange and scary world. [/*]

IMO correct?

[cloe23]

Originally posted by evalles
[QUOTE]Originally posted by cloe23


You sound to be a very fair person. I see your from the same city where my daugher who was 23 when I joined this fourm is now 27 and she teaches 5th grade and english as a second lagnuage at a inter city school, right in KC.

I still say even if the guy in the middle appears to be slow he has six flipping kids and I want to know how many wifes! He must of started at a very young age.barf [/*][/QUOTE

or 6 wives [/*]

I am not judging you what so ever, Just wanting you to get what im getting. About the teacher in KC it is in Missouri not Kansas. And I retract my 'your fair' statement!
In good faith, Have you actually seen Dorathy's red shoes?:)

[cloe23]

Originally posted by Carol25

The time to hurt for those mothers was when they were children... when they were being brought up by robots who probably didn't know what love was, when they probably weren't held, nurtured or told who their real mothers were or heard "I love you."

When they were not allowed to think and make choices but to parrot scriptures and blindly follow,. When they were not permitted to explore, discover. read or enjoy things or people .

Then they should have been pitied. Now we have took look upon them as perpetrators of the the evil that was done to them. Now that they have children of their own, they are in control of molding their lives. The only way they know how. By doing what was done to them, by doing what is told to them.
That is why these children can't go back to their "mothers.

First consideration has to be for the children. Then when all is stabilized there, they should begin deprogrammng and parenting classes and teaching the ladies about feelings and how to love, only then will they truly be able to be called "mothers." [/*]

Excellentlly said! Don't forget the babies are not allowed to cry.
I have a vision of the compound doctor slapping the new born on the butt to shut it up! barf

[lotty]

Originally posted by cloe23


Excellentlly said! Don't forget the babies are not allowed to cry.
I have a vision of the compound doctor slapping the new born on the butt to shut it up! barf [/*]

:seeya: Hi cloe, some of us are down here on 4/22, care to join?

[Thing1]

Thing1:

Children who are severely abused still love their parents and still want to be with them. They cannot make those decisions themselves and they are not capable of deciding what is best for them ...which is why theyre appointed ad litems and advocates

Originally posted by Freebird



So the advocates can then turn them against their parents. [/*]

Yes, exactly.

The children need to learn and understand that when their parents abuse them and permit them to be abused, it is wrong and it will not be tolerated in the name of religion or fear or for any other reason.

[Freebird]

Originally posted by Thing1
Thing1:

Children who are severely abused still love their parents and still want to be with them. They cannot make those decisions themselves and they are not capable of deciding what is best for them ...which is why theyre appointed ad litems and advocates



Yes, exactly.

The children need to learn and understand that when their parents abuse them and permit them to be abused, it is wrong and it will not be tolerated in the name of religion or fear or for any other reason. [/*]

Maybe they don't want to be turned against their parents.

[Thing1]

Originally posted by Freebird


Maybe they don't want to be turned against their parents. [/*]

I'm sure they dont.