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CW closed the other thread. I guess because it was getting too long.
Here's a new one. :seeya:
An autopsy is scheduled for Monday and identity has not been released yet.
Hoping it's not Nicholas but it's so close to the Costco, if I'm not mistaken. :(
http://www.kirotv.com/news/15933724/detail.html
Shelby1
04-20-2008, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by n/t
An autopsy is scheduled for Monday and identity has not been released yet.
Hoping it's not Nicholas but it's so close to the Costco, if I'm not mistaken. :(
http://www.kirotv.com/news/15933724/detail.html [/*]
I hope it's not him.
Prayers for all of the families anxiously waiting.
Danette44
04-20-2008, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by n/t
An autopsy is scheduled for Monday and identity has not been released yet.
Hoping it's not Nicholas but it's so close to the Costco, if I'm not mistaken. :(
http://www.kirotv.com/news/15933724/detail.html [/*]
Thank you for starting this new thread n/t - yes it is close by and I too pray it's not Nicholas - they seem to know who it is, in away it's alittle scary thinking they don't want to say til they see what the cod is.
Nellie
04-20-2008, 12:11 PM
If it turns out the body by Costco is him, then how did his car get to Federal Way?
Seems there's a lot of men's body popping up in that area. Doesn't seem to be a healthy place for men to live, imo.
Danette44
04-20-2008, 12:15 PM
O/T - Snapped is showing alot of cases today about women killing their husbands........just watch M.McGuire's case and now Mary Wrinkler's case is on.......sure pray this isn't what happen to Nicholas. And don't start on me - I didn't say the "X", did this, just showing it's not just husband's that kill their spouses.
Nicholas where are you???? :rose:
Danette44
04-20-2008, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by Nellie
If it turns out the body by Costco is him, then how did his car get to Federal Way?
Seems there's a lot of men's body popping up in that area. Doesn't seem to be a healthy place for men to live, imo. [/*]
Isn't that the truth! Could his body floated down stream or something?? Or is it just Lakes surrounding Federal Way?
RainyNiteNTx
04-20-2008, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by Nellie
If it turns out the body by Costco is him, then how did his car get to Federal Way?
Seems there's a lot of men's body popping up in that area. Doesn't seem to be a healthy place for men to live, imo. [/*]
I would assume the perps kidnapped him, killed him, then dumped his car in the parking lot there.
Thanks for the new thread n/t.
Musterion
04-20-2008, 12:42 PM
Quote from Cat Toy:
"I really hope he is alive, but I am still very concerned that he met w.foul play in a domestic sense. Or foul play in a sexual sense stranger danger type sexual encounter. I think that is what the $50 was for."
Quote from SeattleEddie:
"It's dishonest to raise the spectre of nefarious goings-on, without evidence. It's defaming the name of someone who cannot speak for himself (for whatever reason) and cannot defend himself. It's shameful"
Eddie, or anyone else who is adamant that Nicholas' secret life should not be discussed or probed, why do you all not attack Cat Toy? This pretty much blatantly states that he's having sex with strangers, paying for it. Isn't that smearing Nicholas, someone that can't speak for himself? JMO.
Nellie
04-20-2008, 01:02 PM
I, for one, don't attack anyone. I'm surprised to see you suggest that Musterion.
Nellie
04-20-2008, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
I would assume the perps kidnapped him, killed him, then dumped his car in the parking lot there.
Thanks for the new thread n/t. [/*]
Oh, I should have made myself clearer Rainy. I meant if he committed suicide, since the one body found is being said to be "accident or suicide". Sorry I wasn't clear. I actually wonder how they'd be able to tell if it was an accident or suicide versus foul play. Do people typically commit suicide by throwing themselves into a river? Unless off of a bridge, I guess.....
beetlebrow
04-20-2008, 01:11 PM
WOW......been away for a couple days.....Divorced huh?
IMO its understandable why she would do this for legal reasons....but......MySpace?????? If she posted on MySpace to make some type of public declaration for legal reasons why would she then make it "private"
IMO...Why would someone who claims that she wants the spotlight to stay on finding her husband, post this on MS, KNOWING everyone is going to read and question it ????? :shrug:
Possible Reasons (speculation on my part of course)
1. Message (more threats) to Nicholas
2. Money getting low....wants to continue on Etsy even though does not produce signficant income...wants friends to question why the "Divorce" so she can respond that she has no other choice ( poor me ) and friends may offer further assistance.
3. Is already looking for another SO to take care of her.
Again...everything IMO and MOO
RainyNiteNTx
04-20-2008, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by Nellie
Oh, I should have made myself clearer Rainy. I meant if he committed suicide, since the one body found is being said to be "accident or suicide". Sorry I wasn't clear. I actually wonder how they'd be able to tell if it was an accident or suicide versus foul play. Do people typically commit suicide by throwing themselves into a river? Unless off of a bridge, I guess..... [/*]
Oh okay Nellie no problem.
I don't know how they determine what they do - it is amazing what technology is available for LE to work with.
Carried over from the last thread:
zenharmony19 said:
Do you really think Christine should have a job already? She has 2 children under the age of 5, is pregnant, and her husband disappeared only a little more than 2 months ago.
<snipped>
Why? She has no problem getting a divorce after only 2 months. Why not go a step further with her independent thinking and get a job?
beetlebrow
04-20-2008, 01:38 PM
Exactly......how is she going to survive on her Etsy income??...oh never mind....govt. help. :D
Musterion
04-20-2008, 02:00 PM
Originally posted by Nellie
I, for one, don't attack anyone. I'm surprised to see you suggest that Musterion. [/*]
Then, Nellie, you wouldn't be included in my post if you believe that you don't. And that's ok.
I was attacked pretty harshly yesterday by SeattleEddie for saying something that was very mild.
What disturbs me, what bothers me is the inconsistency and criteria that some posters have for themselves, their friends on the board and then those of us who might not hold their same view. To me, that is unfair. To me we should try to disagree with respect to the individual. We and I are not always successful in that because of our emotions regarding Nicholas' disappearance. But, it is something to strive for, I think. If for no other reason than our own self respect. JMO.
decor
04-20-2008, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by inv
Carried over from the last thread:
zenharmony19 said:
Do you really think Christine should have a job already? She has 2 children under the age of 5, is pregnant, and her husband disappeared only a little more than 2 months ago.
<snipped>
Why? She has no problem getting a divorce after only 2 months. Why not go a step further with her independent thinking and get a job? [/*]
please explain to me what getting a divorce has to do with going out and trying to find a job while she is pregnant.
Musterion
04-20-2008, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by beetlebrow
WOW......been away for a couple days.....Divorced huh?
IMO its understandable why she would do this for legal reasons....but......MySpace?????? If she posted on MySpace to make some type of public declaration for legal reasons why would she then make it "private"
IMO...Why would someone who claims that she wants the spotlight to stay on finding her husband, post this on MS, KNOWING everyone is going to read and question it ????? :shrug:
Possible Reasons (speculation on my part of course)
1. Message (more threats) to Nicholas
2. Money getting low....wants to continue on Etsy even though does not produce signficant income...wants friends to question why the "Divorce" so she can respond that she has no other choice ( poor me ) and friends may offer further assistance.
3. Is already looking for another SO to take care of her.
Again...everything IMO and MOO [/*]
Maybe it is those things, Beetle. Maybe it isn't.
I know when I went through a situation similar to CF's I had such ambivalent emotions. I felt pretty disgusted by the person I was married to and wanted to distance myself from him in every way possible. It made me feel good to write my maiden name even though I hadn't filed for divorce. Maybe you're right about your assumptions, but maybe it was just something for herself and not even realizing the outcry that it would bring.
Her MS is now set to private so it is likely she realized that what she had done was viewed as sinister. Her change in marital status wasn't even up there for an hour, IIRC. I put it in the context of her emotional state and that's all. JMO.
RainyNiteNTx
04-20-2008, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by Musterion
Then, Nellie, you wouldn't be included in my post if you believe that you don't. And that's ok.
I was attacked pretty harshly yesterday by SeattleEddie for saying something that was very mild.
What disturbs me, what bothers me is the inconsistency and criteria that some posters have for themselves, their friends on the board and then those of us who might not hold their same view. To me, that is unfair. To me we should try to disagree with respect to the individual. We and I are not always successful in that because of our emotions regarding Nicholas' disappearance. But, it is something to strive for, I think. If for no other reason than our own self respect. JMO. [/*]
Musterion - I do agree with you, and in a perfect world it would work like that. Just as you brought up Cat Toy's post, I could also bring up the post Decor made about "she would wonder what he did to put himself in that position" should it be found out that Nick met with foul play. As you have always advocated respect for Nicholas (IMO), I didn't see you say anything to her about that post. I think that post is degrading to victims everywhere, particularly Nicholas.
To be honest I scanned that post of Cat Toys, so I will publicly state that I think it is disrespectful to imply he got the $50.00 for casual sex when there has been no indication that Nicholas was anything but a family man.
decor
04-20-2008, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
Musterion - I do agree with you, and in a perfect world it would work like that. Just as you brought up Cat Toy's post, I could also bring up the post Decor made about "she would wonder what he did to put himself in that position" should it be found out that Nick met with foul play. As you have always advocated respect for Nicholas (IMO), I didn't see you say anything to her about that post. I think that post is degrading to victims everywhere, particularly Nicholas.
[/*]
I think you have taken my words completely out of context.
I said I would ask what Nick had done to end up dead because of his secret life. My 1st thought would be that it had something to do with that until it was proven that it didn't.
I take offense to the statement that my statement is degrading to victims everywhere. Who are you to judge ME?
Musterion
04-20-2008, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by inv
Carried over from the last thread:
zenharmony19 said:
Do you really think Christine should have a job already? She has 2 children under the age of 5, is pregnant, and her husband disappeared only a little more than 2 months ago.
<snipped>
Why? She has no problem getting a divorce after only 2 months. Why not go a step further with her independent thinking and get a job? [/*]
inv,
IIRC you said that when you were talking to her that she was talking about the high cost of day care. That would indicate, to me, that she is looking for work. JMO. I hope she is able to work from home and get financial assistance. I hope that for her kids who really should not have to be separated from their source of comfort and stability (their mom) at all, for a long, long time. Their emotional needs seem to get lost by people on here sometimes in lieu of animosity toward their mother. IMO.
zenharmony19
04-20-2008, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by Musterion
Then, Nellie, you wouldn't be included in my post if you believe that you don't. And that's ok.
I was attacked pretty harshly yesterday by SeattleEddie for saying something that was very mild.
What disturbs me, what bothers me is the inconsistency and criteria that some posters have for themselves, their friends on the board and then those of us who might not hold their same view. To me, that is unfair. To me we should try to disagree with respect to the individual. We and I are not always successful in that because of our emotions regarding Nicholas' disappearance. But, it is something to strive for, I think. If for no other reason than our own self respect. JMO. [/*]
Very nice post Musterion and beautifully said. :)
Also what I have seen on this board is circular thinking that promotes one group of thinkers only. For example, the recent complaint by some that the focus is only on Christine and not on Nicholas, doesn't anybody care about him, etc....
This amazes me because originally it appears to be the same group of people that is complaining about that now, that started all the talk about Christine in the first place, by focusing on her instead of Nicholas, finding fault, criticizing, etc.... Now they are trying to blame the group that defended her for not focusing on Nicholas!
Bash and blame tactic, I guess you could call it.
:rolleyes:
JMO IMO
RainyNiteNTx
04-20-2008, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by decor
I think you have taken my words completely out of context.
I said I would ask what Nick had done to end up dead because of his secret life. My 1st thought would be that it had something to do with that until it was proven that it didn't.
I take offense to the statement that my statement is degrading to victims everywhere. Who are you to judge ME? [/*]
I am commenting on your post Decor and I found your comment degrading in ANY context. No one deserves to be murdered due to some secret life.
decor
04-20-2008, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
I am commenting on your post Decor and I found your comment degrading in ANY context. No one deserves to be murdered due to some secret life. [/*]
excuse me but do you want to post exactly where I said that he DESERVED to be murdered for ANY reason.
Musterion
04-20-2008, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
Musterion - I do agree with you, and in a perfect world it would work like that. Just as you brought up Cat Toy's post, I could also bring up the post Decor made about "she would wonder what he did to put himself in that position" should it be found out that Nick met with foul play. As you have always advocated respect for Nicholas (IMO), I didn't see you say anything to her about that post. I think that post is degrading to victims everywhere, particularly Nicholas.
To be honest I scanned that post of Cat Toys, so I will publicly state that I think it is disrespectful to imply he got the $50.00 for casual sex when there has been no indication that Nicholas was anything but a family man. [/*]
Hi Rainy,
I didn't see that post of decors'.
I will have to go back and read the context of what decor said before I can comment on that.
Thank you for being fair, Rainy!
Originally posted by Musterion
inv,
IIRC you said that when you were talking to her that she was talking about the high cost of day care. That would indicate, to me, that she is looking for work. JMO. I hope she is able to work from home and get financial assistance. I hope that for her kids who really should not have to be separated from their source of comfort and stability (their mom) at all, for a long, long time. Their emotional needs seem to get lost by people on here sometimes in lieu of animosity toward their mother. IMO. [/*]
Yes, Musterion. She was talking about the hign cost of daycare (she said it would cost around $900 a wk, which I was shocked at) and all the reasons a job just wouldn't be enough to support her financial needs. Yet, she completed both her majors and minors in college. Sure, in Seattle there is work somewhere for her in design or photography. Even freelance.
BTW, I do respect all of your opinions on this case. It is good to be able to take an objective stand on things once in a while so that we don't become so caughts up in the bickering and blaming.
inv
beetlebrow
04-20-2008, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by Musterion
Maybe it is those things, Beetle. Maybe it isn't.
I know when I went through a situation similar to CF's I had such ambivalent emotions. I felt pretty disgusted by the person I was married to and wanted to distance myself from him in every way possible. It made me feel good to write my maiden name even though I hadn't filed for divorce. Maybe you're right about your assumptions, but maybe it was just something for herself and not even realizing the outcry that it would bring.
Her MS is now set to private so it is likely she realized that what she had done was viewed as sinister. Her change in marital status wasn't even up there for an hour, IIRC. I put it in the context of her emotional state and that's all. JMO. [/*]
First let me say that I love the way that you write....very fair and balanced. It is a much better way, guaranteed to keep the dialouge (sp?) continuing while gentley letting the personal "stuff" fall to the wayside. I am someone who can definitely learn from you and I am glad you are here.
I can't quite agree, considering all the focus on Christine, that she would not have considered people's reaction to putting "divorced" on MS. How could she not have considered this??.
RainyNiteNTx
04-20-2008, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by decor
excuse me but do you want to post exactly where I said that he DESERVED to be murdered for ANY reason. [/*]
Your post indicated that it would somehow be his fault if something tragic did happen to him, therefore putting the blame on Nicholas and not the person responsible.
I believe you stated you would wonder what he did to put himself in that position should something bad have happened to him.
Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
Your post indicated that it would somehow be his fault if something tragic did happen to him, therefore putting the blame on Nicholas and not the person responsible.
I believe you stated you would wonder what he did to put himself in that position should something bad have happened to him. [/*]
Hi, Rainy. It's nice to see your posts and thoughts!
:)
decor
04-20-2008, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by beetlebrow
First let me say that I love the way that you write....very fair and balanced. It is a much better way, guaranteed to keep the dialouge (sp?) continuing while gentley letting the personal "stuff" fall to the wayside. I am someone who can definitely learn from you and I am glad you are here.
I can't quite agree, considering all the focus on Christine, that she would not have considered people's reaction to putting "divorced" on MS. How could she not have considered this??. [/*]
this was why I said that I think she just wanted to let everyone know. sometimes people forget that they know more about a situation than others so letting them know what is going on seems logical to them because they know why. The others that don't have all of the info are shocked because it is not what "they" would do but they don't know the facts.
Again I am sure she didn't post it just so people on crime threads could start ripping her to shreds again.
RainyNiteNTx
04-20-2008, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by beetlebrow
First let me say that I love the way that you write....very fair and balanced. It is a much better way, guaranteed to keep the dialouge (sp?) continuing while gentley letting the personal "stuff" fall to the wayside. I am someone who can definitely learn from you and I am glad you are here.
I can't quite agree, considering all the focus on Christine, that she would not have considered people's reaction to putting "divorced" on MS. How could she not have considered this??. [/*]
Musterion is the absolute best in my opinion even though we hardly agree on anything. I've loved her posts since day one and IMO holds people accountable without alienating them.
RainyNiteNTx
04-20-2008, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by inv
Hi, Rainy. It's nice to see your posts and thoughts!
:) [/*]
Hey INV :seeya:
desmom
04-20-2008, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by inv
Yes, Musterion. She was talking about the hign cost of daycare (she said it would cost around $900 a wk, which I was shocked at) and all the reasons a job just wouldn't be enough to support her financial needs. Yet, she completed both her majors and minors in college. Sure, in Seattle there is work somewhere for her in design or photography. Even freelance.
BTW, I do respect all of your opinions on this case. It is good to be able to take an objective stand on things once in a while so that we don't become so caughts up in the bickering and blaming.
inv [/*]
$900 a week. That is almost $47,000 a year. I need to tell my friend that has a home daycare to move to Seattle.
This site may be able to give CF some assistance with daycare.
http://www.seattle.gov/humanservices/children_families/childcare/
decor
04-20-2008, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
Your post indicated that it would somehow be his fault if something tragic did happen to him, therefore putting the blame on Nicholas and not the person responsible.
I believe you stated you would wonder what he did to put himself in that position should something bad have happened to him. [/*]
and this is exactly what I meant when I said you completely took my post out of context.
I will try and explain.
If there had been no "secret life" and he was found to be deceased then I would be upset and would hope the person responsible would be brought to justice.
Since there is a "secret life" and if he is found dead I would wonder what he did in this secret life that could have caused his death. I would still hope that the person responsible would be brought to justice.
no where did I imply that he "deserved" to be killed.
if you would step back and read the words without reading who posted them then you might see what was said. Instead I believe you are reading my words and since you don't agree with me you have to turn them into something they are not so that you can be indignant about what I posted.
beetlebrow
04-20-2008, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by inv
Yes, Musterion. She was talking about the hign cost of daycare (she said it would cost around $900 a wk, which I was shocked at) and all the reasons a job just wouldn't be enough to support her financial needs. Yet, she completed both her majors and minors in college. Sure, in Seattle there is work somewhere for her in design or photography. Even freelance.
BTW, I do respect all of your opinions on this case. It is good to be able to take an objective stand on things once in a while so that we don't become so caughts up in the bickering and blaming.
inv [/*]
$900.00 a week?. This kind of exageration makes me wonder if she really wants to get a job. I just can't help but see someone who has relied on the help of others for so long that she is scared to do things for herself. This is someone who went on her blog and was able to secure a specific type of house RENT FREE !!!!!!. IMO if Christine wanted a job, she would have gotten one by now.
RainyNiteNTx
04-20-2008, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by decor
and this is exactly what I meant when I said you completely took my post out of context.
I will try and explain.
If there had been no "secret life" and he was found to be deceased then I would be upset and would hope the person responsible would be brought to justice.
Since there is a "secret life" and if he is found dead I would wonder what he did in this secret life that could have caused his death. I would still hope that the person responsible would be brought to justice.
no where did I imply that he "deserved" to be killed.
if you would step back and read the words without reading who posted them then you might see what was said. Instead I believe you are reading my words and since you don't agree with me you have to turn them into something they are not so that you can be indignant about what I posted. [/*]
Thank you for explaining - I appreciate it.
I don't agree with Musterion either so your last paragraph does not make sense to me. The rest I appreciate you clarifying.
decor
04-20-2008, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
Thank you for explaining - I appreciate it.
I don't agree with Musterion either so your last paragraph does not make sense to me. The rest I appreciate you clarifying. [/*]
my last paragraph
sometimes it gets so heated with everyones opinions that we pick the people we agree with and those that we don't. everyone does this as it is human nature. It gets to a point where we disagree with a person so much that we feel that no matter what they say, it can't be right because we don't agree.
try reading the posts and not looking at who posted it. I think you will find that you will see it one way and then when you see who posted it you will see it another way. If it is someone you always agree with you will say oh, of course. If it is someone you always disagree with the you will say, oh that can't be right even if originally you thought it might be true.
everyone does this, not just you.
Sorry, I went back because that just didn't sound right about the daycare thing. I don't know if she was talking about yearly, monthly, or weekly?
It was "$900-1500 PER KID for full day".
Maybe yearly? I don't know.
RainyNiteNTx
04-20-2008, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by decor
my last paragraph
sometimes it gets so heated with everyones opinions that we pick the people we agree with and those that we don't. everyone does this as it is human nature. It gets to a point where we disagree with a person so much that we feel that no matter what they say, it can't be right because we don't agree.
try reading the posts and not looking at who posted it. I think you will find that you will see it one way and then when you see who posted it you will see it another way. If it is someone you always agree with you will say oh, of course. If it is someone you always disagree with the you will say, oh that can't be right even if originally you thought it might be true.
everyone does this, not just you. [/*]
I do see your point on this. What I said in my earlier post is that I do not agree with Musterion either on hardly anything and yet we are able to post along side each other and even enjoy each other.
The difference is Decor IMO please is that you seem to have an axe to grind over Nicholas and it shows in your posts. That does make me defensive. If I have read you wrong, I apologize.
decor
04-20-2008, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
I do see your point on this. What I said in my earlier post is that I do not agree with Musterion either on hardly anything and yet we are able to post along side each other and even enjoy each other.
The difference is Decor IMO please is that you seem to have an axe to grind over Nicholas and it shows in your posts. That does make me defensive. If I have read you wrong, I apologize. [/*]
I don't think you have read me wrong as that is what it appears as I come across as blunt.
In reality it is that I had no idea what happened to him but when the secret life was disclosed since it was "secret" and not something he wanted others to know about, even though it was not illegal doesn't mean it was okay. One has to assume it was not good or there would have been no need for it to be "secret".
Since CF was never considered a suspect, I felt that her life was hard enough with what she was going thru without everyone tearing her apart so I decided to stand up for her. I never had any ill intentions toward NF until this other thing came out.
Having a separate paypal account does not constitute a "secret" life to me and as someone else said if it was so innocent why didn't LE say what it was?
I am wondering if they kept it quiet in case something has happened to him and they will know where to look for answers and don't want anyone getting in the way.
beetlebrow
04-20-2008, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by inv
Sorry, I went back because that just didn't sound right about the daycare thing. I don't know if she was talking about yearly, monthly, or weekly?
It was "$900-1500 PER KID for full day".
Maybe yearly? I don't know. [/*]
:punch: (that was just a little pat).....thanks for being honest and trying to correct ;) I officially revoke my post regarding your statement :D
decor
04-20-2008, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by inv
Sorry, I went back because that just didn't sound right about the daycare thing. I don't know if she was talking about yearly, monthly, or weekly?
It was "$900-1500 PER KID for full day".
Maybe yearly? I don't know. [/*]
I just googled Seattle daycare costs and it looks like it runs about $900-$1000 a month for one kid. I don't know how much more it is for a second child.
ThruTheTrees
04-20-2008, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by inv
Sorry, I went back because that just didn't sound right about the daycare thing. I don't know if she was talking about yearly, monthly, or weekly?
It was "$900-1500 PER KID for full day".
Maybe yearly? I don't know. [/*]
Sounds like monthly rates for this area. Though a lot of centers give a discount if you have more than 1 kid at the day care. There is state aid available for day care too.
RainyNiteNTx
04-20-2008, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by decor
I don't think you have read me wrong as that is what it appears as I come across as blunt.
In reality it is that I had no idea what happened to him but when the secret life was disclosed since it was "secret" and not something he wanted others to know about, even though it was not illegal doesn't mean it was okay. One has to assume it was not good or there would have been no need for it to be "secret".
Since CF was never considered a suspect, I felt that her life was hard enough with what she was going thru without everyone tearing her apart so I decided to stand up for her. I never had any ill intentions toward NF until this other thing came out.
Having a separate paypal account does not constitute a "secret" life to me and as someone else said if it was so innocent why didn't LE say what it was?
I am wondering if they kept it quiet in case something has happened to him and they will know where to look for answers and don't want anyone getting in the way. [/*]
That could be very possible why LE has kept it confidential.
I wish the "secret" would/could just be put out here so all the speculation would stop. That way either Group A is wrong or Group * is wrong lol. :tongue:
decor
04-20-2008, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
That could be very possible why LE has kept it confidential.
I wish the "secret" would/could just be put out here so all the speculation would stop. That way either Group A is wrong or Group * is wrong lol. :tongue: [/*]
I am sure we would find something else for half to think one way and the other half to think the other way. :)
RainyNiteNTx
04-20-2008, 03:22 PM
Why won't it let me post the second letter of the alphabet?
RainyNiteNTx
04-20-2008, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by decor
I am sure we would find something else for half to think one way and the other half to think the other way. :) [/*]
Probably so - it just wouldn't be the same with everyone agreeing.
about_time
04-20-2008, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by inv
Yes, Musterion. She was talking about the hign cost of daycare (she said it would cost around $900 a wk, which I was shocked at) and all the reasons a job just wouldn't be enough to support her financial needs. Yet, she completed both her majors and minors in college. Sure, in Seattle there is work somewhere for her in design or photography. Even freelance.
BTW, I do respect all of your opinions on this case. It is good to be able to take an objective stand on things once in a while so that we don't become so caughts up in the bickering and blaming.
inv [/*]
You have every reason to be shocked at Christines claim that day care in Seattle would be $900 per WEEK. Surely she mis-spoke or you misunderstood. I just typed in average daycare costs in Seattle and there wasn't a single site that was anywhere near that amount! If Christine meant that costs could be as much as $900 per MONTH I would agree that it might be reasonable for the area, even then abit high.
Silver_Dove
04-20-2008, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by about_time
You have every reason to be shocked at Christines claim that day care in Seattle would be $900 per WEEK. Surely she mis-spoke or you misunderstood. I just typed in average daycare costs in Seattle and there wasn't a single site that was anywhere near that amount! If Christine meant that costs could be as much as $900 per MONTH I would agree that it might be reasonable for the area, even then abit high. [/*]
I'm lost here how does daycare in Seattle help find Nicholas? Is it though that he is now running a daycare to support himself?
I though this was all about Nicholas and finding him.
RainyNiteNTx
04-20-2008, 08:54 PM
Are we back?
I thought it got shut down because Decor and I were being civil to each other :o
:)
Miss Behavin
04-20-2008, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
Are we back?
I thought it got shut down because Decor and I were being civil to each other :o
:) [/*]
LOL... why was everything shut down today?
RainyNiteNTx
04-20-2008, 08:59 PM
Originally posted by Miss Behavin
LOL... why was everything shut down today? [/*]
I don't know - maybe maintenance?
carterkatt
04-20-2008, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
I don't know - maybe maintenance? [/*]
Rainy, are you trying to say someone might be "high maintenance"???? Just askin'!! ;)
Miss Behavin
04-20-2008, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
I don't know - maybe maintenance? [/*]
Hmmmm... I don't know either. It wasn't just this forum though, thank goodness. It was the whole board.
Anyway, has there been any news yet about the person found in the water by the Cotsco?
Originally posted by Miss Behavin
Hmmmm... I don't know either. It wasn't just this forum though, thank goodness. It was the whole board.
Anyway, has there been any news yet about the person found in the water by the Cotsco? [/*]
No nothing yet. Autopsy is tomorrow. :rose:
Silver_Dove
04-20-2008, 09:06 PM
Originally posted by Miss Behavin
Hmmmm... I don't know either. It wasn't just this forum though, thank goodness. It was the whole board.
Anyway, has there been any news yet about the person found in the water by the Cotsco? [/*]
I would say it is unlikely to be Nicholas since it sounds like he has been identified just the info hasn't been released.
Miss Behavin
04-20-2008, 09:11 PM
Thanks for the replies N/T and Silver Dove.....
Somebody's family is heartbroken ... sad!
MoonFlwr
04-20-2008, 09:15 PM
Originally posted by Silver_Dove
I'm lost here how does daycare in Seattle help find Nicholas? Is it though that he is now running a daycare to support himself?
I though this was all about Nicholas and finding him. [/*]
shhhhhhh
MoonFlwr
04-20-2008, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by Miss Behavin
Thanks for the replies N/T and Silver Dove.....
Somebody's family is heartbroken ... sad! [/*]
...and waiting....to hear! :( What a terrible time!
Fallen Angel
04-20-2008, 09:27 PM
Originally posted by n/t
No nothing yet. Autopsy is tomorrow. :rose: [/*]Do we know if the bodies male or female?
Originally posted by Fallen Angel
Do we know if the bodies male or female? [/*]
According to police it is that of a man.
http://www.kirotv.com/news/15933724/detail.html
There's this man who went missing on March 28th. so it may be him.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004335736_webmissing08m.html
Fallen Angel
04-20-2008, 09:45 PM
Originally posted by n/t
According to police it is that of a man.
http://www.kirotv.com/news/15933724/detail.html
There's this man who went missing on March 28th. so it may be him.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004335736_webmissing08m.html [/*]thank you for the info
MoonFlwr
04-20-2008, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by n/t
According to police it is that of a man.
http://www.kirotv.com/news/15933724/detail.html
There's this man who went missing on March 28th. so it may be him.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004335736_webmissing08m.html [/*]
He vanished just after speaking to his wife, too.
I wonder what it is about cases that make some gather so much attention (on here and other places..) and other cases, very similar, seem to slip on by, unnoticed.
Originally posted by CAT TOY
That really bothers me; I hope it's not him. Really upsetting to log in and see that link to another person found dead. I keep thinking about his laptop and ipod and how important it was to him, and how he took it with him. Also the lie about the cellphone is also weighing heavy on my mind, he was speaking to someone on his phone that day, just didnt want to speak to his wife on it.
Which clearly indicates there was "someone else" in his life. Probably someone else who could set him up easily with everything he needed in life. I'm still not totally sold on this idea though I still think he could have met w.foul play in several different ways.
If he wasnt going to buy sugar, was that story a lie? If he wasnt going to buy sugar, did he really go home that night? If he wasnt going to buy sugar, he had other plans on his way home? Nope; you dont need to take out a fifty for sugar, but it is more of a dollar amt, cash, that you would need in other situations. Plus most ppl use their card to buy things at the store. That fifty was either an accumulation of the last fifty he was taking, who knows, was it the last of hundreds of withdrawls of fifties? I dont know.
:shrug: [/*]
Why would taking $50.00 be an issue? Maybe he was going to buy sugar, get gas or he may have wanted to keep the extra cash in his pocket. I know when I'm at ATM, I just don't take the amount I need for a purchase. In other words, if I wanted to get sugar, I woulnd't just withdraw the cost of the sugar. I take out whatever I think I'll need for the day or the week.
As for the cellphone call, we don't know. Maybe he did recharge it or was in the process of recharging it before he left for the day and someone made a call on his cell. It could've been anyone. I know I get all kinds of wrong numbers on my cell or maybe it was the wife checking up on him.
I don't believe he took off on his family and I don't believe his secret life was anything that's been speculated here so far. There is absolutely no proof that he was anything but a hard worker, a loving dad and husband.
I believe his secret life may have involved another job and maybe he was meeting with someone. Remember the "signing off". What did he have to sign off on? It doesn't necessarily mean he had to sign off something at Publicis. Maybe he had to meet someone to sign off on one of his online projects???
I posted a link to his Kauno online site. The fee he charged was $50.00. That is exactly the amount he withdrew from the ATM. What if a disgruntled client wanted a refund and he was going to meet up with this person and something happened???
Originally posted by MoonFlwr
He vanished just after speaking to his wife, too.
I wonder what it is about cases that make some gather so much attention (on here and other places..) and other cases, very similar, seem to slip on by, unnoticed. [/*]
I think it all depends on whether or not the family chooses to go public. If the case gets media attention, the public gets involved.
carterkatt
04-20-2008, 09:58 PM
[i]I posted a link to his Kauno online site. The fee he charged was $50.00. That is exactly the amount he withdrew from the ATM. What if a disgruntled client wanted a refund and he was going to meet up with this person and something happened??? [/*]
Interesting idea... the $50 refund idea. But, wouldn't he want a "receipt" to prove he'd given the $50 back?
Originally posted by carterkatt
Interesting idea... the $50 refund idea. But, wouldn't he want a "receipt" to prove he'd given the $50 back? [/*]
Maybe. Was that what he had to sign off? I don't know. Or maybe he trusted this person because they've been chatting online for some time and something happened. Who knows. There are a gazillion possibilities.
The point I was trying to make is when we hear "secret life" we automatically assume something morally wrong but that may not necessarily be the case.
I just hope LE hasn't ruled anything out yet. Just because they haven't found any evidence of foul play doesn't necessarily mean that it isn't.
I, like many, wish he is alive and safe somewhere but I honestly don't believe he would pick up and leave without a trace. Not after what I've read and heard from his friends and coworkers. I would say the probability of Nicholas doing something like that is highly unlikely.
desmom
04-20-2008, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by n/t
Why would taking $50.00 be an issue? Maybe he was going to buy sugar, get gas or he may have wanted to keep the extra cash in his pocket. I know when I'm at ATM, I just don't take the amount I need for a purchase. In other words, if I wanted to get sugar, I woulnd't just withdraw the cost of the sugar. I take out whatever I think I'll need for the day or the week.
As for the cellphone call, we don't know. Maybe he did recharge it or was in the process of recharging it before he left for the day and someone made a call on his cell. It could've been anyone. I know I get all kinds of wrong numbers on my cell or maybe it was the wife checking up on him.
I don't believe he took off on his family and I don't believe his secret life was anything that's been speculated here so far. There is absolutely no proof that he was anything but a hard worker, a loving dad and husband.
I believe his secret life may have involved another job and maybe he was meeting with someone. Remember the "signing off". What did he have to sign off on? It doesn't necessarily mean he had to sign off something at Publicis. Maybe he had to meet someone to sign off on one of his online projects???
I posted a link to his Kauno online site. The fee he charged was $50.00. That is exactly the amount he withdrew from the ATM. What if a disgruntled client wanted a refund and he was going to meet up with this person and something happened??? [/*]
The purchaser posted she did not know NF was missing until she had not heard from him by 2/20 and she googled his name. http://nicholasfrancisco.blogspot.com/2008/02/read-this-did-nicholas-ever-email-you.html
She made the purchase on 2/11 and left positive feedback on 2/13.
http://www.etsy.com/feedback_public.php?user_id=5591152
MoonFlwr
04-20-2008, 10:09 PM
In my experience, generally, refunds occur via post, paypal, money order, or at a place of business, in order to ensure the security of the parties involved.
figritout
04-20-2008, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by CAT TOY
do not, take my posts out of context, copy and paste them and insert them into your ridiculous childish ranting.
FGS
It's my theory, based on a lot of the speculation of his secrect life, whatever that may be whether it was drugs for a $50 bag or sex for a C note or less, or stranger sex, or a man on the down low or a man just out for some strange not on the down low. That was what I was talking about in my post. And it's not being disrespectful to NF at all. It's discussion about what could have happened to him. I'm also surprised at you Must, but acutally
not really. Supposedly he is doing something secretive...even if that means one night stands which was also suggested as more than mere speculation.
So in the future, unless you quote and snip and use the direct quote, dont bother rewriting what someone has written you may not write it correctly and then all he!! will break loose......use your quote funciton. That's what it's there for. But, in the future leave me out of it. hammer [/*]
Hi CT, I hoovered my pm's. I was waiting for you to reply. Lovin the rantings, UGH!
Originally posted by desmom
The purchaser posted she did not know NF was missing until she had not heard from him by 2/20 and she googled his name. http://nicholasfrancisco.blogspot.com/2008/02/read-this-did-nicholas-ever-email-you.html
She made the purchase on 2/11 and left positive feedback on 2/13.
http://www.etsy.com/feedback_public.php?user_id=5591152 [/*]
That was one example of an online site desmom. I'm not saying that's the one. This particular one, IIRC, Christine was aware of.
How many others did he have that she may not have been aware of? Maybe that was the reason for the secret paypal and that's where the $50.00 was allegedly withdrawn from.
Originally posted by n/t
Why would taking $50.00 be an issue? Maybe he was going to buy sugar, get gas or he may have wanted to keep the extra cash in his pocket. I know when I'm at ATM, I just don't take the amount I need for a purchase. In other words, if I wanted to get sugar, I woulnd't just withdraw the cost of the sugar. I take out whatever I think I'll need for the day or the week.
As for the cellphone call, we don't know. Maybe he did recharge it or was in the process of recharging it before he left for the day and someone made a call on his cell. It could've been anyone. I know I get all kinds of wrong numbers on my cell or maybe it was the wife checking up on him.
I don't believe he took off on his family and I don't believe his secret life was anything that's been speculated here so far. There is absolutely no proof that he was anything but a hard worker, a loving dad and husband.
I believe his secret life may have involved another job and maybe he was meeting with someone. Remember the "signing off". What did he have to sign off on? It doesn't necessarily mean he had to sign off something at Publicis. Maybe he had to meet someone to sign off on one of his online projects???
I posted a link to his Kauno online site. The fee he charged was $50.00. That is exactly the amount he withdrew from the ATM. What if a disgruntled client wanted a refund and he was going to meet up with this person and something happened??? [/*]
My first impresion when it was said that NF took $50.00 out of an atm was that he did this at the Shell Station on Elliott Ave where there was a reported sighting of him. I thought maybe he was stopping to get fuel before heading to Costco for the sugar.
But, Elliott Ave would be out of the way I discovered.
Originally posted by MoonFlwr
In my experience, generally, refunds occur via post, paypal, money order, or at a place of business, in order to ensure the security of the parties involved. [/*]
Yes, generally for security reasons that's the way it should be done.
Nellie
04-20-2008, 10:23 PM
Did someone say Nicholas' secret life was that he had set up a daycare? I don't think that's it myself. Seems like some of his customers would have come forward by now. While he probably would have made more money at it than the Publicis job and I think he is good with children, I just don't think that's it. Must just be a rumor someone started.
But, I'm wondering if perhaps his secret life was hiding money in a "secret account"....money Christine didn't know about. Once she found out, she made the statement about seeing something on his Pay Pal account and said he was shielding her, but she really meant he was "hiding something from her". Perhaps it was the secret Pay Pal account that LE told her about.....not his regular Pay Pal account as we assumed or she portrayed to us. That was right after he went missing and she began the cries for money immediately. Maybe his secret life was just selling things (designs, whatever) and socking the money into a Pay Pal account that C knew nothing about. When LE asked her about that particular Pay Pal account when they figured it out, they learned she knew nothing of it. Secret. From that moment on, she was ticked off at him for hiding these funds from her. Maybe it wasn't anything evil....but just a man with a "secret nest egg".
?????????? JMO
MoonFlwr
04-20-2008, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by n/t
I think it all depends on whether or not the family chooses to go public. If the case gets media attention, the public gets involved. [/*]
Yeah, I was thinking along those lines, too, n/t.
:)
Silver_Dove
04-20-2008, 10:25 PM
Originally posted by MoonFlwr
He vanished just after speaking to his wife, too.
I wonder what it is about cases that make some gather so much attention (on here and other places..) and other cases, very similar, seem to slip on by, unnoticed. [/*]
This guy was the perfect male by the info we got he feed the kid, brought his wife coffee, baked cookies and went shopping.
Many feel his wife just didn't deserve him, no it mostly wasn't said that bluntly but nothing she did or said is/was good enough for a man like him.
When she said she was divorcing him someone even joked about who wanted him.
I think he has become the guy some want as a husband, brother or son.
Also this is the reason when anyone posts anything saying his secret life might make him less of the perfect male and might give Christine a reason to want to divorce him everyone goes crazy. The perfect male must remain the perfect male at all costs.
Originally posted by Nellie
Did someone say Nicholas' secret life was that he had set up a daycare? I don't think that's it myself. Seems like some of his customers would have come forward by now. While he probably would have made more money at it than the Publicis job and I think he is good with children, I just don't think that's it. Must just be a rumor someone started.
But, I'm wondering if perhaps his secret life was hiding money in a "secret account"....money Christine didn't know about. Once she found out, she made the statement about seeing something on his Pay Pal account and said he was shielding her, but she really meant he was "hiding something from her". Perhaps it was the secret Pay Pal account that LE told her about.....not his regular Pay Pal account as we assumed or she portrayed to us. That was right after he went missing and she began the cries for money immediately. Maybe his secret life was just selling things (designs, whatever) and socking the money into a Pay Pal account that C knew nothing about. When LE asked her about that particular Pay Pal account when they figured it out, they learned she knew nothing of it. Secret. From that moment on, she was ticked off at him for hiding these funds from her. Maybe it wasn't anything evil....but just a man with a "secret nest egg".
?????????? JMO [/*]
I think you and I are twins. :D
desmom
04-20-2008, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by n/t
That was one example of an online site desmom. I'm not saying that's the one. This particular one, IIRC, Christine was aware of.
How many others did he have that she may not have been aware of? Maybe that was the reason for the secret paypal and that's where the $50.00 was allegedly withdrawn from. [/*]
Ooops! Sorry.
Okay, so CF said... http://subparspokane.wordpress.com/2008/03/07/nicholas-francisco-update-2/
the paypal account is for his business and there was no money missing. he just didn’t make near as much as he usually does.
Then there was the info about the "secret" paypal account. How many online businesses did he have?
Originally posted by desmom
Ooops! Sorry.
Okay, so CF said... http://subparspokane.wordpress.com/2008/03/07/nicholas-francisco-update-2/
Then there was the info about the "secret" paypal account. How many online businesses did he have? [/*]
No idea but they were both very active online. And he may have used an alias for other businesses but that's just an assumption based on the secret life that was discovered.
Silver_Dove
04-20-2008, 10:37 PM
I still want to know who would believe a bank account would be a secret life. A secret maybe but a life that devastated the wife. She maybe a bit dramatic at times but come on that would be over the top even for her.
desmom
04-20-2008, 10:41 PM
Originally posted by Silver_Dove
This guy was the perfect male by the info we got he feed the kid, brought his wife coffee, baked cookies and went shopping.
Many feel his wife just didn't deserve him, no it mostly wasn't said that bluntly but nothing she did or said is/was good enough for a man like him.
When she said she was divorcing him someone even joked about who wanted him.
I think he has become the guy some want as a husband, brother or son.
Also this is the reason when anyone posts anything saying his secret life might make him less of the perfect male and might give Christine a reason to want to divorce him everyone goes crazy. The perfect male must remain the perfect male at all costs. [/*]
IMO, there is no such thing as the perfect male. Before I am bashed, there is also no such thing as the perfect female either. Everyone has faults.
jmo:biggrin:
Danette44
04-20-2008, 10:46 PM
There is a post over at WS that poster gave permission to copy it there - she said she had seen Nicholas and Chrisitne and kids in safeway on Sunday the week before he went missing. She claims she didnt understand what drew her to them, but that Nicolas was very handsome and younger than her......she said it seem he had things on his mind and that chrisitne did look pregnant ( how can be when she just found out) anyway a good email if you want to go read it.......buttom line - they both didn't look happy she stated. You cn go over and read the boards and not register. Praying it was Nicholas - she even has some site to search since she lives right there. moo
Danette44
04-20-2008, 10:56 PM
Originally posted by desmom
IMO, there is no such thing as the perfect male. Before I am bashed, there is also no such thing as the perfect female either. Everyone has faults.
jmo:biggrin: [/*]
Darn desmom - I think I'm the perfect MOM - oh wait.....I'm not a MOM...can I lie about it? I'm going to be bring abusive children in my home this summer once they are out of school, they have nowhere to go - I have lots of land to allow them to run and play, am I crazy nahhhhhhhhhh should I:chicken:
Silver_Dove
04-20-2008, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by inv
My first impresion when it was said that NF took $50.00 out of an atm was that he did this at the Shell Station on Elliott Ave where there was a reported sighting of him. I thought maybe he was stopping to get fuel before heading to Costco for the sugar.
But, Elliott Ave would be out of the way I discovered. [/*]
Interesting just mapped that to check but that gas station is between his work spot and the Wet Spot.
Originally posted by Danette44
There is a post over at WS that poster gave permission to copy it there - she said she had seen Nicholas and Chrisitne and kids in safeway on Sunday the week before he went missing. She claims she didnt understand what drew her to them, but that Nicolas was very handsome and younger than her......she said it seem he had things on his mind and that chrisitne did look pregnant ( how can be when she just found out) anyway a good email if you want to go read it.......buttom line - they both didn't look happy she stated. You cn go over and read the boards and not register. Praying it was Nicholas - she even has some site to search since she lives right there. moo [/*]
Danette, I agree with the poster who said she/he saw this before. Am I losing my mind? The email sounds so familiar. It's like deja vu. :confused:
HarlettOhara
04-20-2008, 11:07 PM
Originally posted by n/t
Danette, I agree with the poster who said she/he saw this before. Am I losing my mind? The email sounds so familiar. It's like deja vu. :confused: [/*]
I received the same email also...
Danette44
04-20-2008, 11:09 PM
Originally posted by n/t
Danette, I agree with the poster who said she/he saw this before. Am I losing my mind? The email sounds so familiar. It's like deja vu. :confused: [/*]
I hate when that happens n/t she said it had to be on synday she seen them - because on saturday it's sabbath and she doesn't shop on that day. Did you go over there to read it, it's on pg 25
Originally posted by Danette44
I hate when that happens n/t she said it had to be on synday she seen them - because on saturday it's sabbath and she doesn't shop on that day. Did you go over there to read it, it's on pg 25 [/*]
Yes I read it and that's why I posted what I did. That email was already posted somewhere. I just don't remember where it was that I read it before.
Danette44
04-20-2008, 11:11 PM
Originally posted by HarlettOhara
I received the same email also... [/*]
Hi Harlett - what did you think of it? She said they didn't look happy.....that is sad to picture - because so many of his coworkers aand friends say so many good things about them both.
Danette44
04-20-2008, 11:15 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by n/t
Yes I read it and that's why I posted what I did. That email was already posted somewhere. I just don't remember where it was that I read it before. [/*][/QUOT
Thats the first time I had seen it and I have been all over the boards, I didn't have permission to bring it here so thats why I just gave bits here and there. Was very interesting. Nicolas is a handsome man like she said - even by his online pictures.
HarlettOhara
04-20-2008, 11:17 PM
Originally posted by Danette44
Hi Harlett - what did you think of it? She said they didn't look happy.....that is sad to picture - because so many of his coworkers aand friends say so many good things about them both. [/*]
I don't know, two people can look at one person and they both will see something different. I know I probably don't look happy when I'm at the grocery store because that is one of my least favorite places to be. Actually, I probably look mad when I'm there :D It's hard to tell if someone is happy or not by only seeing them one time.
LOL I'm not losing my mind afterall. The person who sent the email apparently posted the same on king5.com or maybe the PI blog.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63123&page=25
Whew! :D
Danette44
04-20-2008, 11:21 PM
Originally posted by HarlettOhara
I don't know, two people can look at one person and they both will see something different. I know I probably don't look happy when I'm at the grocery store because that is one of my least favorite places to be. Actually, I probably look mad when I'm there :D It's hard to tell if someone is happy or not by only seeing them one time. [/*]
This is true - I also hate to shop - I'm not a good cook and people are so rude in stores........including me - I want in and out fast! :lol:
desmom
04-20-2008, 11:21 PM
Originally posted by n/t
Danette, I agree with the poster who said she/he saw this before. Am I losing my mind? The email sounds so familiar. It's like deja vu. :confused: [/*]
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/soundoff/comment.asp?articleID=351639
Post #364107
:shrug:
Danette44
04-20-2008, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by n/t
LOL I'm not losing my mind afterall. The person who sent the email apparently posted the same on king5.com or maybe the PI blog.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63123&page=25
Whew! :D [/*]
:punch: I said it was over on pg 25 LOL Good gilr, you're not losing it!
HarlettOhara
04-20-2008, 11:26 PM
Originally posted by Danette44
This is true - I also hate to shop - I'm not a good cook and people are so rude in stores........including me - I want in and out fast! :lol: [/*]
Come to think of it, that was during the time that the whole family was sick with the flu also.. I'm surprised they would take the kids out of the house and to the store while sick like that :shrug:
I have shopping cartrage:D when I go I want to zip down the aisles and get out. I don't have time for the family reunions in the middle of the aisles...
Originally posted by Danette44
:punch: I said it was over on pg 25 LOL Good gilr, you're not losing it! [/*]
I was too busy trying to remember where I had seen that darn email!! :tongue:
Danette44
04-20-2008, 11:33 PM
Originally posted by HarlettOhara
Come to think of it, that was during the time that the whole family was sick with the flu also.. I'm surprised they would take the kids out of the house and to the store while sick like that :shrug:
I have shopping cartrage:D when I go I want to zip down the aisles and get out. I don't have time for the family reunions in the middle of the aisles... [/*]
Thats right they were all sick that weekend - no wonder they didn't look happy.........poor kids being drag to a store and not feeling well.....
Have you heard anything on that body? I feel if it's Chris Miller the family would know already - well you would think. Praying it isn't Nicholas :rose:
Originally posted by n/t
I posted a link to his Kauno online site. The fee he charged was $50.00. That is exactly the amount he withdrew from the ATM. What if a disgruntled client wanted a refund and he was going to meet up with this person and something happened??? [/*]
Perhaps Nicholas had already cleared out his PayPal account, BUT he noticed that someone had bought his Custom Logo Design for $50.00 the afternoon of 2/13.
The buyer probably paid the $50.00 with PayPal immediately (which is what you are supposed to do on Etsy), so he withdrew that last $50.00 that had just been deposited to his PayPal account that afternoon.
Nicholas' sold items (http://www.etsy.com/shop_sold.php?user_id=5591152) <---------- if you look at the items still for sale in his shop, the Custom Logo Design that was sold on 2/13 was exactly $50.00.
Just a thought! MO and all that jazz.
HarlettOhara
04-20-2008, 11:37 PM
Originally posted by Danette44
Thats right they were all sick that weekend - no wonder they didn't look happy.........poor kids being drag to a store and not feeling well.....
Have you heard anything on that body? I feel if it's Chris Miller the family would know already - well you would think. Praying it isn't Nicholas :rose: [/*]
That is if this person really saw them that weekend.. who knows, I don't think they would have taken sick kids to the grocery. Heck, they wouldn't have wanted to go themselves if they had the flu...
I believe LE knows who the body they found is by stating the name had not been released yet.. and they have not been in touch with Christine so that leads me to believe that it is not Nicholas. If it was they surely would have said something to her by now.
Musterion
04-20-2008, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by inv
Yes, Musterion. She was talking about the hign cost of daycare (she said it would cost around $900 a wk, which I was shocked at) and all the reasons a job just wouldn't be enough to support her financial needs. Yet, she completed both her majors and minors in college. Sure, in Seattle there is work somewhere for her in design or photography. Even freelance.
BTW, I do respect all of your opinions on this case. It is good to be able to take an objective stand on things once in a while so that we don't become so caughts up in the bickering and blaming.
inv [/*]
Thanks, inv.
I hope it would be freelance and she can be with her little ones!
I hesitate telling people what it is that I think they should do. Ok, well, most people. Ha ha! Anyway, in my faith I truly believe that God has a plan for everyone. I can only tell them what I see are their giftings and or talents and encourage them to listen to where God is leading them. It may not be what everyone around you is telling you to do. It may not be the thing that seems is the logical thing to do. But, in the eternal scheme of things you are accountable to be obedient to what God tells you to do. No one else is accountable for that. You are. So, I walk a really fine line to give people advice on what I think they need to do or should do. I encourage them to listen to God and take action on what road He leads you down. JMO.
Musterion
04-20-2008, 11:41 PM
Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
Musterion is the absolute best in my opinion even though we hardly agree on anything. I've loved her posts since day one and IMO holds people accountable without alienating them. [/*]
Rainy, stop teasing me! :)
Danette44
04-20-2008, 11:43 PM
Originally posted by HarlettOhara
That is if this person really saw them that weekend.. who knows, I don't think they would have taken sick kids to the grocery. Heck, they wouldn't have wanted to go themselves if they had the flu...
I believe LE knows who the body they found is by stating the name had not been released yet.. and they have not been in touch with Christine so that leads me to believe that it is not Nicholas. If it was they surely would have said something to her by now. [/*]
I thought of that also - but then also thought perhaps they will do the autopsy report first and then give all details - but that would be the first for LE that I have seen. Just to know he adored his family and all his coworkers thinking it's not a walk away - they really believe it's foul play.
Musterion
04-20-2008, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by CAT TOY
do not, take my posts out of context, copy and paste them and insert them into your ridiculous childish ranting.
FGS
It's my theory, based on a lot of the speculation of his secrect life, whatever that may be whether it was drugs for a $50 bag or sex for a C note or less, or stranger sex, or a man on the down low or a man just out for some strange not on the down low. That was what I was talking about in my post. And it's not being disrespectful to NF at all. It's discussion about what could have happened to him. I'm also surprised at you Must, but acutally
not really. Supposedly he is doing something secretive...even if that means one night stands which was also suggested as more than mere speculation.
So in the future, unless you quote and snip and use the direct quote, dont bother rewriting what someone has written you may not write it correctly and then all he!! will break loose......use your quote funciton. That's what it's there for. But, in the future leave me out of it. hammer [/*]
Hi Cat,
I think you are referring to me?
I apologize for offending you. I should have asked you if you minded me using a partial post of yours to make a point.
I was just questioning why I was aggressively bashed for making a statement that was mild regarding secret lives. Your posts are always very direct and forthright. Which I do appreciate. Even if I don't always agree. The post I used of yours was to make a point and to not criticize you.
Again, I'm sorry, Cat, for offending you.
Musterion
beetlebrow
04-20-2008, 11:54 PM
Originally posted by kpb
Perhaps Nicholas had already cleared out his PayPal account, BUT he noticed that someone had bought his Custom Logo Design for $50.00 the afternoon of 2/13.
The buyer probably paid the $50.00 with PayPal immediately (which is what you are supposed to do on Etsy), so he withdrew that last $50.00 that had just been deposited to his PayPal account that afternoon.
Nicholas' sold items (http://www.etsy.com/shop_sold.php?user_id=5591152) <---------- if you look at the items still for sale in his shop, the Custom Logo Design that was sold on 2/13 was exactly $50.00.
Just a thought! MO and all that jazz. [/*]
OMG.....u just gave me chills.....I think you may be onto something..:read:
Originally posted by HarlettOhara
That is if this person really saw them that weekend.. who knows, I don't think they would have taken sick kids to the grocery. Heck, they wouldn't have wanted to go themselves if they had the flu...
I believe LE knows who the body they found is by stating the name had not been released yet.. and they have not been in touch with Christine so that leads me to believe that it is not Nicholas. If it was they surely would have said something to her by now. [/*]
Harlett. Was it Christine's lawyers who advised that divorce was her only option because of the house and debt? I heard that somewhere last night and just wanted to verify.
Originally posted by kpb
Perhaps Nicholas had already cleared out his PayPal account, BUT he noticed that someone had bought his Custom Logo Design for $50.00 the afternoon of 2/13.
The buyer probably paid the $50.00 with PayPal immediately (which is what you are supposed to do on Etsy), so he withdrew that last $50.00 that had just been deposited to his PayPal account that afternoon.
Nicholas' sold items (http://www.etsy.com/shop_sold.php?user_id=5591152) <---------- if you look at the items still for sale in his shop, the Custom Logo Design that was sold on 2/13 was exactly $50.00.
Just a thought! MO and all that jazz. [/*]
The item was sold on 2.11.2008 http://www.etsy.com/view_transaction.php?transaction_id=7405712
Could be that was the paypal account he withdrew the $50.00 from or he could've had another paypal account. His wife was aware of this site so she would've seen this purchase.
Trying to figure this out but it's getting late and am tired. Hopefully, this is some clue to what may have happened.
beetlebrow
04-21-2008, 12:02 AM
Originally posted by Musterion
Thanks, inv.
I hope it would be freelance and she can be with her little ones!
I hesitate telling people what it is that I think they should do. Ok, well, most people. Ha ha! Anyway, in my faith I truly believe that God has a plan for everyone. I can only tell them what I see are their giftings and or talents and encourage them to listen to where God is leading them. It may not be what everyone around you is telling you to do. It may not be the thing that seems is the logical thing to do. But, in the eternal scheme of things you are accountable to be obedient to what God tells you to do. No one else is accountable for that. You are. So, I walk a really fine line to give people advice on what I think they need to do or should do. I encourage them to listen to God and take action on what road He leads you down. JMO. [/*]
ITA....many people I talk to say that they pray and that takes care of things. I ask them if they "listen" (look for signs after they pray for answers) and they don't know what I am talking about. The "listening" part is so important......I wish I could say that I always remember to do it (I don't), but when I do......wow.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by kpb
Perhaps Nicholas had already cleared out his PayPal account, BUT he noticed that someone had bought his Custom Logo Design for $50.00 the afternoon of 2/13.
The buyer probably paid the $50.00 with PayPal immediately (which is what you are supposed to do on Etsy), so he withdrew that last $50.00 that had just been deposited to his PayPal account that afternoon.
Nicholas' sold items <---------- if you look at the items still for sale in his shop, the Custom Logo Design that was sold on 2/13 was exactly $50.00.
Just a thought! MO and all that jazz. [/*]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by n/t
The item was sold on 2.11.2008 http://www.etsy.com/view_transaction.php?transaction_id=7405712
Could be that was the paypal account he withdrew the $50.00 from or he could've had another paypal account. His wife was aware of this site so she would've seen this purchase.
Trying to figure this out but it's getting late and am tired. Hopefully, this is some clue to what may have happened. [/*]
n/t, I was referring to the item that sold on 2/13 (the Custom Logo Design for your Etsy Shop - the green one) which cost $50.00 according to the active listings in his shop.
The item that sold on 2/11 (Custom Designed Etsy Banner & Avatar - the turquoise one) costs $20.00 according to his active shop listings.
Nicholas' Shop - SOLD ITEMS (http://www.etsy.com/shop_sold.php?user_id=5591152)
Nicholas' Shop - ITEMS UP FOR SALE NOW (http://www.etsy.com/shop.php?user_id=5591152)
Even if the wife did know about this account, maybe she had no reason to check it everyday. She wasn't aware he emptied the account (if he did?) and since another $50.00 was paid into his account that afternoon from the item he sold, he grabbed that too.
All just MO.... :)
Musterion
04-21-2008, 12:58 AM
Originally posted by beetlebrow
ITA....many people I talk to say that they pray and that takes care of things. I ask them if they "listen" (look for signs after they pray for answers) and they don't know what I am talking about. The "listening" part is so important......I wish I could say that I always remember to do it (I don't), but when I do......wow. [/*]
You and me both, beetle! Excellent that you ask people if they are listening!! Such a good point!
Musterion
04-21-2008, 01:02 AM
Originally posted by CAT TOY
Well thanks, I just did not understand why I was dragged into it :D
hehe
I would never bash you. I try so hard not to bash ppl on this site, I'm all about the issue, what's the real story, etc....and of course Ruminating, which I have a habit of doing. No harm no foul
Cat [/*]
LOL! You're welcome!
When I read your posts I know that I am listening to a person who free associates in their thinking. That is the most creative type of thinker IMO. You have a good humour and good mind.
Thank you for forgiving me!
I would like to begin by saying that I have spent countless hours online over the past 6 weeks looking for information regarding this case. In fact, I took off an entire two weeks from my 'day' job to devote my time to this.
I have read articles and internet postings. I have watched all the interviews. I have visited all the 'known' sites that are related to NF, CF, and those who are closest to them. I have learned about their former church. I have looked at this from nearly any angle I could think of. I have chatted with Christine. I have been in contact with LE involoved in this case in regards to anything I thought was 'new' or 'pertinent'. I have tried to disprove speculation (to myself only).
I am basing my opionion on everything stated above.
My thoughts boil down to this...
a. He worked in a field that he enjoyed. His only complaint about his job was that he wanted to spend more time with his family.
*. He was an exceptional father. In pictures, it is obvious to me that he was very happy being with his children and his wife.
c. He was equally as exceptional as a husband. His wife even publically acknowledges that he would bring her coffee, and he would cook for their two kids.
d. He was actively planning things that would have taken place after February 13 such as design work and building an addition to his home.
e. His closest co-workers state that he was the most honest man they know.
f. Everyone who knows Nicholas Francisco speaks nothing but the highest things about his behavior and character.
g. He must be quite a human being for his wife to go on tv and say she cannot live without him.
And about finances...
1. During a media interview, his wife says <paraphrasing because it would take me hours to compose this message if I have to refer back everytime I press a key> that they were not rich but their financial situation was no worse than anyone else.
2. Supporters from etsy have provided donations to the family which are being used for family expenses.
3. Others are donating through an account set up at a local bank.
<note: To the best of my knowledge, there is no account set up for financing a public search for Nicholas>
And about his wife...
1. She has pleaded for public assistance with finding Nicholas.
2. She has posted messages various places online asking for prayers.
3. She was provided with a home which included everything she had asked for plus more.
4. She has asked that the truth be revealed by God because it isn't her place to do it. (I am not sure what that means.)
5. She initially participated in media interview and search efforts. The media interviews have stopped. It is unknown if she is actually looking for her husband.
6. It has been stated that she has/will file for a divorce. Her only known Myspace profile has been changed to reflect that she 'is' divorced. Soon after the change in the marital status, her Myspace profile was set to private.
7. Other profiles of persons connected to NF/CF have been set to private as well.
8. I posted a message on the supportingchristine site (which requires moderator approval before messges become public) and a few hours later the message was removed followed by an immediate post by someone using the nick Christine Francisco. I know it was within a minute or so that her message appeared because I set my browser to auto-refresh every 60 seconds.
Enough about that...
About the family...
1. NF's mom appeared on a national news program. She was asked <paraphrasing again> what her opinion was about Nicholas' home life. Basically, his mom said that NF was sefless (not selfish). She said that he was always helping with the kids and basically saying the NF put everyone before himself.
2. NF's father has participated in physical searches, etc.
Now, the facts...
1. Nick went to work on the 13th.
<edited to add> Nick's coworkers did not notice anything unusual abour him.
2. His friends say he had planned to stop somewhere (I say somewhere because there is varying accounts of where he was stopping such as 'up there', Costco, Safeway) on his way home.
<edited to add> LE says their was activity on his cell phone sometime that afternoon before he left work. Who he spoke with, or if there was actually a connection is not publically known.
3. He left work at the usual time.
4. A coworker saw him going to or getting in his car.
5. He used an atm card to withdraw cash.
6. His car was found four a few days later in Federal Way at a condo complex.
Most of Nicholas' friends/coworkers think he met foul play. They are basing that belief on Nicholas' character and behavior. They don't beileve he could ever just 'walk away'.
IMO, since there is no real evidence in this case, LE should begin mssive searches based on what the people around Nicholas believe. There is nothing else to go on. For all anybody knows, there could be another cold-blooded killer on the loose who is free to take his next victim. Nobody just 'disappears into thin air' without any trace whatsoever after 2+ months have gone by. If he were alive, someone around him would have contacted police. Does anyone actually believe he has been inside held up in one place for all this time? Don't you think he would have to go out at some point? Someone would have recognized him by now.
To Nicholas:
:rose:
And another thing...
I believe that Nciholas was the stand up guy that his friends/coworkers/family said he was. I am certainly not defending his wife by any means at all, but don't you think, since he was as computer literate as he was, that if he were alive, he would most definitely be able to find stuff about him on the internet and would be concerned about all the rumors and speculation? Wouldn't he, being the person that everyone says he was (and I believe) let someone know he is okay?
Sorry, but nothing would make me believe Nicholas Francisco is alive unless we found out otherwise from LE or the family (his mom or dad or siblings).
I would also like to add that I think LE has a very good clue of where to look. 'in or near water', or 'Panther Lake'.[/*]
Originally posted by kpb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by kpb
Perhaps Nicholas had already cleared out his PayPal account, BUT he noticed that someone had bought his Custom Logo Design for $50.00 the afternoon of 2/13.
The buyer probably paid the $50.00 with PayPal immediately (which is what you are supposed to do on Etsy), so he withdrew that last $50.00 that had just been deposited to his PayPal account that afternoon.
Nicholas' sold items <---------- if you look at the items still for sale in his shop, the Custom Logo Design that was sold on 2/13 was exactly $50.00.
Just a thought! MO and all that jazz. [/*]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
n/t, I was referring to the item that sold on 2/13 (the Custom Logo Design for your Etsy Shop - the green one) which cost $50.00 according to the active listings in his shop.
The item that sold on 2/11 (Custom Designed Etsy Banner & Avatar - the turquoise one) costs $20.00 according to his active shop listings.
Nicholas' Shop - SOLD ITEMS (http://www.etsy.com/shop_sold.php?user_id=5591152)
Nicholas' Shop - ITEMS UP FOR SALE NOW (http://www.etsy.com/shop.php?user_id=5591152)
Even if the wife did know about this account, maybe she had no reason to check it everyday. She wasn't aware he emptied the account (if he did?) and since another $50.00 was paid into his account that afternoon from the item he sold, he grabbed that too.
All just MO.... :) [/*]
Got it. What do you make of the $4.00 bank charge though. Would that mean there was more cash in the account? I wish we knew how much money was left over, if any.
inv, great summary. I think we're on the same page as far as Nick's fate that day. I hope I'm wrong but it doesn't look good. Unless more details are released, that's all we can go by.
IIRC, he left all his belongings behind. It doesn't sound like someone who planned on taking off and leaving his family behind.
:rose:
I wonder what happened to his car. Does LE still have it? Was it returned to the wife? What happens in these types of cases?
RainyNiteNTx
04-21-2008, 07:30 AM
Originally posted by n/t
inv, great summary. I think we're on the same page as far as Nick's fate that day. I hope I'm wrong but it doesn't look good. Unless more details are released, that's all we can go by.
IIRC, he left all his belongings behind. It doesn't sound like someone who planned on taking off and leaving his family behind.
:rose: [/*]
You will be able to knock me over with a feather if we find out he deserted his family. There is no indication whatsoever he had plans to leave.
INV - thanks for making such a great summary. When put in that perspective, it looks really bad for Nicholas.
:rose:
RainyNiteNTx
04-21-2008, 07:32 AM
Originally posted by carterkatt
Rainy, are you trying to say someone might be "high maintenance"???? Just askin'!! ;) [/*]
LOL morning Katt :)
RainyNiteNTx
04-21-2008, 07:32 AM
Originally posted by n/t
I wonder what happened to his car. Does LE still have it? Was it returned to the wife? What happens in these types of cases? [/*]
I would think LE would be finished with the car.
Maybe Harlett knows if Christine now has Nick's car. We've not heard anything about it.
desmom
04-21-2008, 09:08 AM
Originally posted by n/t
Got it. What do you make of the $4.00 bank charge though. Would that mean there was more cash in the account? I wish we knew how much money was left over, if any. [/*]
I asked a friend who uses a paypal debit card about the ins and outs. She said she has a bank account attached to the card. If she makes a purchase or ATM withdrawal larger than her paypal balance, the necessary funds are withdrawn from the bank account.
jmo
beetlebrow
04-21-2008, 09:16 AM
Originally posted by CAT TOY
Well thanks, I just did not understand why I was dragged into it :D
hehe
I would never bash you. I try so hard not to bash ppl on this site, I'm all about the issue, what's the real story, etc....and of course Ruminating, which I have a habit of doing. No harm no foul
Cat [/*]
Hmmmm......just readin along and SPEW!!:lol:
Shelby1
04-21-2008, 09:22 AM
Great post, Inv. :)
Musterion
04-21-2008, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by inv
And another thing...
I believe that Nciholas was the stand up guy that his friends/coworkers/family said he was. I am certainly not defending his wife by any means at all, but don't you think, since he was as computer literate as he was, that if he were alive, he would most definitely be able to find stuff about him on the internet and would be concerned about all the rumors and speculation? Wouldn't he, being the person that everyone says he was (and I believe) let someone know he is okay?
Sorry, but nothing would make me believe Nicholas Francisco is alive unless we found out otherwise from LE or the family (his mom or dad or siblings).
I would also like to add that I think LE has a very good clue of where to look. 'in or near water', or 'Panther Lake'.[/*] [/*]
Hi inv,
I appreciate all of the time you have taken in your research in Nicholas' case. It is alot of work and you've been thorough and I can tell you have tried to be unbiased.
I am wondering since you have spoken to LE and there are statements that they have made why those are not included on your list? I'm specifically thinking of their claims of a secret life?
I don't personally believe, based on everything reported, that Nicholas walked away. I think he did meet with foul play. I don't believe Nicholas was a bad person at all. I do know, from personal experience, that a person does not have to exhibit negative behaviours to friends, family and co-workers to have secrets that sometimes are devastating to them and those they love if found out. It doesn't make that person terrible. It many times means that that person is caught up in something that maybe they don't know how they got into and they don't know how to get out of. JMO. I don't know if that is the case with Nicholas. I don't know what if any secret life he had or what it entailed. Sometimes really good, loving and kind people can do shocking things. Shocking themselves even. Again, I don't know if this is the case about Nicholas. IMO.
I'm looking for the link where Christine said to look in or near water or Panther Lake. I know there was something said about that but I'm having a hard time locating it. Can you point me in the right direction? I'd like to see the context.
LE has said that they don't suspect Christine of many of the things that she has been accused of. Having said that, I do know that in the last years LE, as a whole, have changed terminology from 'suspect' to 'person of interest', at least in the beginning of a case. I think that LE sometimes does not tell the public if they are monitoring or suspicous of someone because they may not want that person to feel under scrutiny so that they can observe more freely. A person who feels they are not under scrutiny is, IMO, much more apt to walk and talk more openly. Which can be helpful in solving a case. IMO.
Thanks for your work, inv.
Fallen Angel
04-21-2008, 02:40 PM
any news on that autopsy they are doing today?
TIA
RainyNiteNTx
04-21-2008, 02:41 PM
INV - awesome research - thank you.
Musterion - I like your post as well.
Nicholas may have had a secret - one he might not be very proud of, but that does not mean he deserted his family. I unfortunately think he is dead due to foul play and that is very hard for me to think about, much less put in print.
On the other hand, he could have had a secret that was very benign. I have seen Christine exaggerate before - one being her saying she felt her baby move when the fetus was no more than the size of a grain of rice. So IMO anything she might not have known about Nicholas and found out after he went missing could cause hysteria on her part.
RainyNiteNTx
04-21-2008, 02:47 PM
Here is the link to CF saying she believes Nicholas was murdered....
http://www.king5.com/localnews/stories/NW_030808WAB_missing_man_times_KS.35848895.html
Jobless, two months pregnant and raising two small children, Francisco said she has had to put her emotions behind her and focus on supporting her young family. She believes Nicholas, her husband of seven years, was murdered, but she also understands why authorities say he may have disappeared voluntarily.
----------------------
I believe the reference to water was in an audio interview around the month anniversary mark of NF missing. I believe she has made several references to water, but I notice some of the links do not connect to the stories now.
Postergeist
04-21-2008, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by Musterion
<snip>
I'm looking for the link where Christine said to look in or near water or Panther Lake. I know there was something said about that but I'm having a hard time locating it. Can you point me in the right direction? I'd like to see the context.
It was in an interview that CF gave to the media that several posters saw/heard it and it was then being mentioned here around March 13/14.
You'd just have to do a search or look on the LINK thread but this is speculation originated from the wife per her interviews.
jmo
MystryPhobia
04-21-2008, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by SlickLime
Washington is a community property state. Divorce would not absolve her of any debt acquired during the marriage.
However, if he incurred debt after the divorce was filed, it would be his sole responsibility, IMO.
I'm not a legal eagle. Perhaps someone who is can explain. [/*]
If she divorces him and he doesn't show up to court then the judge will grant her her divorce and give her whatever she is asking for in her petition.. including holding him responsible for all debts. If he doesn't show up to contest it then that is exactly what would happen. We are a community property state but that does not mean that all debts are split 50/50 during divorce preceedings. Anything can happen during that. We are community property meaning... she is entitled to half of the assets... if she wanted to fight for that or the wife can walk away with nothing.. if she so chooses.. or vice versa.
Fallen Angel
04-21-2008, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
Here is the link to CF saying she believes Nicholas was murdered....
http://www.king5.com/localnews/stories/NW_030808WAB_missing_man_times_KS.35848895.html
Jobless, two months pregnant and raising two small children, Francisco said she has had to put her emotions behind her and focus on supporting her young family. She believes Nicholas, her husband of seven years, was murdered, but she also understands why authorities say he may have disappeared voluntarily.
----------------------
I believe the reference to water was in an audio interview around the month anniversary mark of NF missing. I believe she has made several references to water, but I notice some of the links do not connect to the stories now. [/*]did NF have life insurance?
RainyNiteNTx
04-21-2008, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by MystryPhobia
If she divorces him and he doesn't show up to court then the judge will grant her her divorce and give her whatever she is asking for in her petition.. including holding him responsible for all debts. If he doesn't show up to contest it then that is exactly what would happen. We are a community property state but that does not mean that all debts are split 50/50 during divorce preceedings. Anything can happen during that. We are community property meaning... she is entitled to half of the assets... if she wanted to fight for that or the wife can walk away with nothing.. if she so chooses.. or vice versa. [/*]
Unbelievable - a man possibly murdered being saddled with all the debt because he didn't show up. I don't understand how any Judge could grant whatever she wants when NF is still officially listed as missing.
MystryPhobia
04-21-2008, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
So would this also mean he is entitled to half of all of the donations she has collected? (if he showed up?) [/*]
I would think so. Any debts, property or money by either during the marriage is fair game. That would definately fit.
RainyNiteNTx
04-21-2008, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by Fallen Angel
did NF have life insurance? [/*]
Nobody has ever answered that - I guess because we don't know. However, would it do her any good if his body is not found?
Silver_Dove
04-21-2008, 03:13 PM
Interesting post Inv but without the info on the secret life none of the rest means anything. I know about a man, you could have said all of those things about who was keeping a mistress on the side.
Also after the secret life was discovered everyone changed the news, Christine, the LE everything why was that? There is an email around from the LE that says after finding out about the secret life they were leaning more toward that he walked away. Because they found out he may have gone off to be a monk?
Maybe if everyone quit putting him up for Sainthood and demonizing his wife they would come up with something but I don't think that will happen anytime soon since people would rather be "his voice" then find a out about a non-saint Nicholas.
I truly believe the secret life is the key to this case. Personally from the beginning I have believe he met someone who was more interesting to him then wife, children or job. I haven't heard anything that changes that but many little clues that still point to it.
RainyNiteNTx
04-21-2008, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by MystryPhobia
I would think so. Any debts, property or money by either during the marriage is fair game. That would definately fit. [/*]
I didn't intend to hit send on that one Mystry (and went back and deleted it) - it sounded crass. I just get upset when it looks like NF does not have a voice at all and could be laying dead in the bottom of a lake while court proceedings are being held.
MystryPhobia
04-21-2008, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
Unbelievable - a man possibly murdered being saddled with all the debt because he didn't show up. I don't understand how any Judge could grant whatever she wants when NF is still officially listed as missing. [/*]
I think it might be trickier than that since he is listed as a missing and possibly endangered person.. but I would think that if they can prove that they have reason to believe that he took of and abandoned them... then a judge might not feel very bad for him.
But.. you don't know that she is trying to do that, at all. We don't know that she isn't just trying to get the debt split fairly so that she can try to make it. That wouldn't be unreasonable.. would it?
RainyNiteNTx
04-21-2008, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by Silver_Dove
Interesting post Inv but without the info on the secret life none of the rest means anything. I know about a man, you could have said all of those things about who was keeping a mistress on the side.
Also after the secret life was discovered everyone changed the news, Christine, the LE everything why was that? There is an email around from the LE that says after finding out about the secret life they were leaning more toward that he walked away. Because they found out he may have gone off to be a monk?
Maybe if everyone quit putting him up for Sainthood and demonizing his wife they would come up with something but I don't think that will happen anytime soon since people would rather be "his voice" then find a out about a non-saint Nicholas.
I truly believe the secret life is the key to this case. Personally from the beginning I have believe he met someone who was more interesting to him then wife, children or job. I haven't heard anything that changes that but many little clues that still point to it. [/*]
I would rather stick up for a victim as we know it and be wrong, than to try and smear his name like you are doing.
Silver_Dove
04-21-2008, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
Unbelievable - a man possibly murdered being saddled with all the debt because he didn't show up. I don't understand how any Judge could grant whatever she wants when NF is still officially listed as missing. [/*]
It doesn't really matter to the judge because if he is dead she would be a widow and control it all and if he walked off on her the judge will give it all to her because he walked out on her. If he shows up to clam half he has a lot of explaining to do.
In the end it is a legal wash and is the only way in Wa she can deal with the community property such as the house, cars etc.
Also if he is alive she won't be responsible for any debts he might run up.
In this case I can't see any other real answer.
RainyNiteNTx
04-21-2008, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by MystryPhobia
I think it might be trickier than that since he is listed as a missing and possibly endangered person.. but I would think that if they can prove that they have reason to believe that he took of and abandoned them... then a judge might not feel very bad for him.
But.. you don't know that she is trying to do that, at all. We don't know that she isn't just trying to get the debt split fairly so that she can try to make it. That wouldn't be unreasonable.. would it? [/*]
Mystry - when did you change? Your early posts always took up for Nicholas based on what his coworkers and friends of yours told you. I'm surprised you would condone this. But in answer to your question, no, it would not be unreasonable.
Silver_Dove
04-21-2008, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
I would rather stick up for a victim as we know it and be wrong, than to try and smear his name like you are doing. [/*]
I know to you it is better to smear a live woman who is raising children and is already destroyed by this then a maybe dead person who it won't even matter to.
Miss Behavin
04-21-2008, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by Silver_Dove
I still want to know who would believe a bank account would be a secret life. A secret maybe but a life that devastated the wife. She maybe a bit dramatic at times but come on that would be over the top even for her. [/*]
I think the secret paypal account was just the beginning of it, as well as the phone call NF received after telling the wife and co-workers his phone was dead. IMO
IIRC, LE couldn't get NF's phone records because there was no evidence of foul play. However, the wife got his phone records and then forwarded those records to LE. IMO she probably did her own "investigating" before forwarding them.
That is when I believe this "double life" came into the light, after those initial things were discovered.
I have to say that while I do feel a lot of the wife's behavior has been questionable, I do not think a secret paypal account would be enough to direct her toward divorce. I really don't! IMO it is a lot more than that.
Also, IIRC, when the "double life" was revealed it was said that it completely took everything away from the wife AND kids.... but it was nothing illegal....and there was a paper trail going back a couple of years.
I still can't reconcile this in my mind, but if I had to speculate - I'd guess maybe this double life has to do with another family somewhere. :shrug: Maybe NF had an affair and the woman got pregnant and he was supporting this other family too. It's a lot of stress to solely support one family - but two? And then his wife is expecting again?! That is certainly something that would take away from his kids. Just a guess and just my opinion.
I still hold out hope for Nicholas to be found and hope he knows that whatever his double life involves - everything happens for a reason and everything always works itself out just as it should. I truly believe that with all my heart.
Originally posted by Silver_Dove
Interesting post Inv but without the info on the secret life none of the rest means anything. I know about a man, you could have said all of those things about who was keeping a mistress on the side.
Also after the secret life was discovered everyone changed the news, Christine, the LE everything why was that? There is an email around from the LE that says after finding out about the secret life they were leaning more toward that he walked away. Because they found out he may have gone off to be a monk?
Maybe if everyone quit putting him up for Sainthood and demonizing his wife they would come up with something but I don't think that will happen anytime soon since people would rather be "his voice" then find a out about a non-saint Nicholas.
I truly believe the secret life is the key to this case. Personally from the beginning I have believe he met someone who was more interesting to him then wife, children or job. I haven't heard anything that changes that but many little clues that still point to it. [/*]
SD, I purposely left out the alleged 'secret life' suggestion becuase I don't know what that means. His 'secret life' was not illegal, and everyone around him says that he was the type that would come "straight home" after work each day and he was a "family" guy. This leads me to believe that the secret life could be that he was selling designs on the side and putting the funds into a 'different' PayPal account as opposed to a 'secret' PayPal account as some have called it. He may have had a perfectly legitimate reason for why he was putting the money into a 'different' account. I can think of several now.
But, anway, it seems to me that whatever the 'secret' entailed, it had something to do with the PayPal account because they were both mentioned at the same time, iirc.
MystryPhobia
04-21-2008, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by Silver_Dove
It doesn't really matter to the judge because if he is dead she would be a widow and control it all and if he walked off on her the judge will give it all to her because he walked out on her. If he shows up to clam half he has a lot of explaining to do.
In the end it is a legal wash and is the only way in Wa she can deal with the community property such as the house, cars etc.
Also if he is alive she won't be responsible for any debts he might run up.
In this case I can't see any other real answer. [/*]
It really is the smart way for her to protect herself right now from anything that he may be doing (not saying that he is but nobody knows and that could come back to bite her).. although.. I believe she could get a legal seperation and that would give her the same protection.
When my ex and I split up.. the first thing my he did was file bankrupcy. I went to an attorney and he told me that I would be responsible for everything if he did that and that I need to file for seperation immediately. I didn't listen, of course and regretted it
I could totally see her getting that legal advise. She needs to seperate herself from anything he could be doing.
RainyNiteNTx
04-21-2008, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by Silver_Dove
I know to you it is better to smear a live woman who is raising children and is already destroyed by this then a maybe dead person who it won't even matter to. [/*]
She can speak for herself and does all across the internet. Nicholas however, cannot speak for himself. As long as I have a breath in my body, I will be on this forum every day standing up for him the best I can.
MystryPhobia
04-21-2008, 03:32 PM
Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
Mystry - when did you change? Your early posts always took up for Nicholas based on what his coworkers and friends of yours told you. I'm surprised you would condone this. But in answer to your question, no, it would not be unreasonable. [/*]
I am not condoning anything. I still think that something bad happened to him that night BUT Christine has a right to protect herself since none of us really know what the truth is of why he disappeared. And like I said.. I can totally see her being given that advice and if she is smart.. she will take it and try to protect what she has. Cause she has no idea what the future is going to bring her and bankrupcy laws are ALOT different now then they were 10 years ago. It isn't as easy as it used to be.
nanabillie
04-21-2008, 03:35 PM
I first found this board July of last year. I found it by Googling a missing persons name. Right away I felt right at home. Everyone was so nice. During the search for Naomi Arnette, people worked together. Giving ideas, sending things for the kids. I admirred so many people working together. It made me feel like I could really accomplish something, helping look for the missing.
Now, when I come to this site to check and see about Nicolas, I am always, and I do mean always, surprised how so many people are acting. I do not mean to be judgemental. I know some of you will get upset with me anyway. What are you accomplishing? You aren't helping Nicolas, Christine or the children as far as I can see. Now, I have not read every post. My nerves could not take it. It just seems that all of the time that is spent fighting with each other, or even agreeing with each other, could be spent doing something constructive. If you visit Project Jason you will see the Adopt a Missing Person site. That is what I have done. Seven missing people have their faces on my big pocketbook. They go with me everywhere I go. Along with flyers telling their story. I have two office supply companies in my town that have agreed to help print out flyers for the persosn missing from our county. Maybe you all do the same thing. Maybe some of you have spent years looking for someone. If so, please forgive me for jumping in on your life.
Someone wrote in my yearbook 40 years ago.
Only one life, it will soon be passed.
Only what's done for Christ will last.
KKKKKKatie
04-21-2008, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by Silver_Dove
I know to you it is better to smear a live woman who is raising children and is already destroyed by this then a maybe dead person who it won't even matter to. [/*]
get off of your high horse. No one is smearing Christine....we are discussing. You just don't get it is all
Silver_Dove
04-21-2008, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
She can speak for herself and does all across the internet. Nicholas however, cannot speak for himself. As long as I have a breath in my body, I will be on this forum every day standing up for him the best I can. [/*]
So you believe that by burying you head in the sand, denying anything that doesn't fit your ideal of Nicholas you will help to find him?
I believe the only way to find him is to find out and explore what maybe the truth. Also everything points to there has to be more about him then is publicly know because people don't vanish without a trace without a reason. So far there is nothing that points toward foul play and something that makes the police lean toward the idea that he is alive. What is that thing?
KKKKKKatie
04-21-2008, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by MystryPhobia
I am not condoning anything. I still think that something bad happened to him that night BUT Christine has a right to protect herself since none of us really know what the truth is of why he disappeared. And like I said.. I can totally see her being given that advice and if she is smart.. she will take it and try to protect what she has. Cause she has no idea what the future is going to bring her and bankrupcy laws are ALOT different now then they were 10 years ago. It isn't as easy as it used to be. [/*]
I agree....IF he did just walk away and decided to garner debt...she could be responsible also. I would protect myself also.
Silver_Dove
04-21-2008, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by KKKKKKatie
get off of your high horse. No one is smearing Christine....we are discussing. You just don't get it is all [/*]
So I discuss Nicholas and I'm smearing but you discuss Christine and it is just discussing even if it is just as negative.
KKKKKKatie
04-21-2008, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by nanabillie
I first found this board July of last year. I found it by Googling a missing persons name. Right away I felt right at home. Everyone was so nice. During the search for Naomi Arnette, people worked together. Giving ideas, sending things for the kids. I admirred so many people working together. It made me feel like I could really accomplish something, helping look for the missing.
Now, when I come to this site to check and see about Nicolas, I am always, and I do mean always, surprised how so many people are acting. I do not mean to be judgemental. I know some of you will get upset with me anyway. What are you accomplishing? You aren't helping Nicolas, Christine or the children as far as I can see. Now, I have not read every post. My nerves could not take it. It just seems that all of the time that is spent fighting with each other, or even agreeing with each other, could be spent doing something constructive. If you visit Project Jason you will see the Adopt a Missing Person site. That is what I have done. Seven missing people have their faces on my big pocketbook. They go with me everywhere I go. Along with flyers telling their story. I have two office supply companies in my town that have agreed to help print out flyers for the persosn missing from our county. Maybe you all do the same thing. Maybe some of you have spent years looking for someone. If so, please forgive me for jumping in on your life.
Someone wrote in my yearbook 40 years ago.
Only one life, it will soon be passed.
Only what's done for Christ will last. [/*]
no disrespect nana but you have no idea what some of us have done to help in this case and many others. Pretty presumptuous of you to decide that we have done nothing concrete. IMO
KKKKKKatie
04-21-2008, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by Silver_Dove
So I discuss Nicholas and I'm smearing but you discuss Christine and it is just discussing even if it is just as negative. [/*]
Show me where I sad that? :rolleyes: You have not been here from day one....we put Nicholas thru the ringer in the beginning....and his "secret life" is still speculated about here.
So what is your point?
Miss Behavin
04-21-2008, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by Silver_Dove
So I discuss Nicholas and I'm smearing but you discuss Christine and it is just discussing even if it is just as negative. [/*]
I really don't understand why this has to be an all or nothing!
Why does anybody really need to take one side or the other?
The facts are the facts and he is still missing regardless of his double life, or the fact that the wife has filed for a divorce.
RainyNiteNTx
04-21-2008, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by KKKKKKatie
Show me where I sad that? :rolleyes: You have not been here from day one....we put Nicholas thru the ringer in the beginning....and his "secret life" is still speculated about here.
So what is your point? [/*]
Thats the problem Katie - she only wants to talk about Nicholas being in some perverted sex club.
KKKKKKatie
04-21-2008, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by Miss Behavin
I really don't understand why this has to be an all or nothing!
Why does anybody really need to take one side or the other?
The facts are the facts and he is still missing regardless of his double life, or the fact that the wife has filed for a divorce. [/*]
Exactly!
RainyNiteNTx
04-21-2008, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by Miss Behavin
I really don't understand why this has to be an all or nothing!
Why does anybody really need to take one side or the other?
The facts are the facts and he is still missing regardless of his double life, or the fact that the wife has filed for a divorce. [/*]
Exactly!!! But some people are trying to minimize his missing due to some "secret".
RainyNiteNTx
04-21-2008, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by Silver_Dove
So you believe that by burying you head in the sand, denying anything that doesn't fit your ideal of Nicholas you will help to find him?
I believe the only way to find him is to find out and explore what maybe the truth. Also everything points to there has to be more about him then is publicly know because people don't vanish without a trace without a reason. So far there is nothing that points toward foul play and something that makes the police lean toward the idea that he is alive. What is that thing? [/*]
People don't vanish without a trace? Have you not read some of the cold cases on here? Ever heard of Ray Gricar for instance?
Silver_Dove
04-21-2008, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by Miss Behavin
I really don't understand why this has to be an all or nothing!
Why does anybody really need to take one side or the other?
The facts are the facts and he is still missing regardless of his double life, or the fact that the wife has filed for a divorce. [/*]
Sorry this all started from someone saying I was smearing Nicholas because I keep questioning what a secret life that has cause the LE to lean more toward that he walked away and that it devastated his wife and children and took everything away from them. Most mean something other then he was making extra money and stashing it but might be he had someone on the side and decided to leave with them for Valentines day. Any time I say something like this or defend Christine the screeching starts that I'm smearing Nicholas.
To bad this forum doesn't leave all the quoted posts. I hate having to scroll up to find the start or having someone half way in misinterpreted where it started.
BTW at the beginning I though he left Christine because she was high maintainence but I have since watch her every word be picked apart and dismissed. I still believe he left her and everything I have tried to find him leads me back to the same thing. Including the pm I got that Inv is sure was from LE and the chastising I took for "outing" him when I questioned people who belong to the club I though he belonged to.
Fallen Angel
04-21-2008, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
Nobody has ever answered that - I guess because we don't know. However, would it do her any good if his body is not found? [/*]sureeeeeeeeee it would help her. she can declare him dead in a year and get it.
Fallen Angel
04-21-2008, 04:08 PM
Steve Foster was declared dead only 5 months after missing
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23190782/
hmmmmmmmm so i would love to know if NF had life insurance money
Silver_Dove
04-21-2008, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by Fallen Angel
sureeeeeeeeee it would help her. she can declare him dead in a year and get it. [/*]
Since they don't have anyway he might have died and some things that suggest he might be alive she will have to wait seven years.
Now it would be different if they had found blood anywhere or if he had been out in a boat or something like that.
RainyNiteNTx
04-21-2008, 04:09 PM
Originally posted by Fallen Angel
Steve Foster was declared dead only 5 months after missing
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23190782/
hmmmmmmmm so i would love to know if NF had life insurance money [/*]
oh yeah forgot about that
Silver_Dove
04-21-2008, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by Fallen Angel
Steve Foster was declared dead only 5 months after missing
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23190782/
hmmmmmmmm so i would love to know if NF had life insurance money [/*]
He was flying a small plane. The plane was never found that he went down in. Makes the chances very high that he is dead. Nicholas' car was found with no blood.
Miss Behavin
04-21-2008, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by Silver_Dove
Sorry this all started from someone saying I was smearing Nicholas because I keep questioning what a secret life that has cause the LE to lean more toward that he walked away and that it devastated his wife and children and took everything away from them. Most mean something other then he was making extra money and stashing it but might be he had someone on the side and decided to leave with them for Valentines day. Any time I say something like this or defend Christine the screeching starts that I'm smearing Nicholas.
To bad this forum doesn't leave all the quoted posts. I hate having to scroll up to find the start or having someone half way in misinterpreted where it started.
BTW at the beginning I though he left Christine because she was high maintainence but I have since watch her every word be picked apart and dismissed. I still believe he left her and everything I have tried to find him leads me back to the same thing. Including the pm I got that Inv is sure was from LE and the chastising I took for "outing" him when I questioned people who belong to the club I though he belonged to. [/*]
I have thought from the beginning that he left on his own - that has been my belief all along - and I have not swayed from it. I worry, of course, that he may have met with foul play during this time, but since we have no indication in either direction, I feel it's important to look at everything .
I feel that in order to properly examine this case and post intelligently, without taking support away from anybody, all the facts need to be looked at and to me, that includes some of Christine's behavior as well as the double life Nicholas was leading.
We can all support Nicholas and that doesn't take anything away from supporting Christine, imo. On the other hand, not really knowing the details of the double life leaves a lot of questions about her behavior. Questioning her behavior doesn't take away from supporting her either. JMO
ThruTheTrees
04-21-2008, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by Silver_Dove
He was flying a small plane. The plane was never found that he went down in. Makes the chances very high that he is dead. Nicholas' car was found with no blood. [/*]
Yes, I think with the lack of any real evidence, that the 7 year rule will most likely apply to any life insurance payout.
need2no
04-21-2008, 04:26 PM
HOH said "Christine has filed for a divorce. This is in the best interest of her and the children, it was actually necessary that it be done for legal reasons." Ok.. so I've been doing some research regarding what these legal reasons might be that would necessitate filing for a divorce now that NF has been missing just a little over 2 months.
This one website about a missing spouse, legal issues and granting a divorce talks about Grant of Probate on the assumption of death: The Supreme Court is able to make an order to deal with the missing person’s assets when it is satisfied that the missing person is no longer alive.
A Grant of probate on the assumption of death may be made by the Supreme Court if there is a will.
**But as far as we know there is NO assumption of death, or even evidence of foul play. **
http://www.professionalstandardscouncil ... MP_map.pdf
What if One Partner Goes Missing:
If you have outstanding joint credit agreements in place and there is debt to be repaid and one of the couple goes missing, the creditor will come to the other joint signatory if they cannot track down the main cardholder. This can often be extremely stressful, especially where the main cardholder is the biggest earner and may have possibly run up the majority of the debt yet can’t be tracked down, leaving the lower income partner to have to try to deal with the debt as it is in joint names.
It should be emphasised that any pursuit of a debt relating to a joint credit agreement can be made on either party and it’s not a case of saying you will be liable for half of the debt accrued but not the other 50%. If no contact and subsequent agreement can be made with one party, then the other is liable for the total debt on the joint agreement that was made.
http://www.divorceresource.co.uk/PayingJointDebts.html
**Nothing in this article indicates there is anyway to get out of being responsible for joint debts, and since WA is a community property state ALL of 'their' debts would be JOINT debts.**
Desertion, which is called abandonment in some statutes, is a Divorce ground in a majority of states. Most statutes mandate that the abandonment continue for a certain period of time before a divorce action may be commenced. The length of this period varies between one and five years; it is most commonly one year. In addition, proof that the departed spouse left without the consent of the other spouse is required in most states
Desertion is frequently coupled with non-support, which is a failure to provide monetary resources for those to whom such an obligation is due. Nonsupport is a crime in a majority of states but prosecutions are uncommon.
Laws that embody the Enoch Arden Doctrine grant a divorce if evidence establishes that an individual's spouse has vanished and cannot be found through diligent efforts. A particular period of time must elapse. Sometimes, if conditions evidencing death can be exhibited, a divorce may be granted prior to the expiration of the time specified by law.
In some jurisdictions, the law is stringent regarding divorce grounds. In such instances, an Enoch Arden decree might be labeled a dissolution of the marriage rather than a divorce.
Upon the granting of an Enoch Arden decree, the marriage is terminated regardless of whether or not the absent spouse returns. Generally, the court provides that the plaintiff must show precisely what has been done to locate the missing person. Efforts to find the absent spouse might include inquiries made to friends or relatives to determine if they have had contact with the missing spouse, or checking public records for such documents as a marriage license, death certificate, tax returns, or application for Social Security in locations where the individual is known to have resided.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictiona ... ed+absence
**The Enoch Arden Doctrine addresses providing this relief (divorce) for the purpose of remarriage, not financial relief, or protection. **
**Whether married or divorced CF would be entitled to NF's life insurance if she is the beneficiary. Filing taxes as single head of household?**
So what are the legal reasons Christine needed to file for a divorce after 2 months? What's the benefit, the rush? Other than to protect herself from any future debt that NF may incur, and to prevent NF from being able to claim 1/2 of any donation money should he return.
:shrug:
MystryPhobia
04-21-2008, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by ThruTheTrees
Yes, I think with the lack of any real evidence, that the 7 year rule will most likely apply to any life insurance payout. [/*]
I don't know anything about that but was thinking.. I doubt that he had a private life insurance policy but think he probably did have one at work as part of his employee benefits. Not sure how much that is tho.
ThruTheTrees
04-21-2008, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by MystryPhobia
I don't know anything about that but was thinking.. I doubt that he had a private life insurance policy but think he probably did have one at work as part of his employee benefits. Not sure how much that is tho. [/*]
Life insurance for a young and healthy male (I'm assuming he was a non-smoker too) is not that expensive. As responsible as everyone has described him as, and the fact that he has an unemployed wife and 2 small children, I wouldn't be surprised if he did have a supplementary insurance policy beyond just the basic one provided at his work. I hope that LE has looked into this, especially in light of the comments about "the guy has some financial problems" that LE made early on.
Silver_Dove
04-21-2008, 04:36 PM
I find Christine divorcing Nicholas very interesting because as a Christian there is only one reason why she can divorce and that is Adultery. Since she is still saying she is very strong in her faith this could be her way of telling you without coming out with it that she has found evidence of adultery.
Fallen Angel
04-21-2008, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by need2no
**snipped for space**
**Whether married or divorced CF would be entitled to NF's life insurance if she is the beneficiary. Filing taxes as single head of household?**
So what are the legal reasons Christine needed to file for a divorce after 2 months? What's the benefit, the rush? Other than to protect herself from any future debt that NF may incur, and to prevent NF from being able to claim 1/2 of any donation money should he return.
:shrug: [/*]OMG she wants a divorce?
HOLY HECK'EM's . Could you imagine how he would feel if he was kidnapped or hurt or something.......... Amazing :cuss:
Fallen Angel
04-21-2008, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by Silver_Dove
I find Christine divorcing Nicholas very interesting because as a Christian there is only one reason why she can divorce and that is Adultery. Since she is still saying she is very strong in her faith this could be her way of telling you without coming out with it that she has found evidence of adultery. [/*]I'm Catholic so even if adultery should happen you can always get counciling before thinking about divorce.
I could never imagine divorcing my missing husband :cuss:
need2no
04-21-2008, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by MystryPhobia
I don't know anything about that but was thinking.. I doubt that he had a private life insurance policy but think he probably did have one at work as part of his employee benefits. Not sure how much that is tho. [/*]
If he did have life insurance through his employer I would think this would only be effective if he is still considered an employee. Of course one could argue that he was an employee with a life ins. policy when he vanished. I wonder what his status is...I would think after this amount of time they could legally take him off the payroll. Lose job...lose benefits. I suspect the insurance company may fight this one if the benefit is very large and NF's body hasn't been found.
Some companies provide a nominal life ins. benefit based on salary (after a year or more of employment), and you have the option to pay for additional coverage if you chose to do so. Since money was an issue NF may have only had what the company provided with plans to increase it when he could afford to.
MystryPhobia
04-21-2008, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by need2no
<snipped for space>
**Whether married or divorced CF would be entitled to NF's life insurance if she is the beneficiary. Filing taxes as single head of household?**
So what are the legal reasons Christine needed to file for a divorce after 2 months? What's the benefit, the rush? Other than to protect herself from any future debt that NF may incur, and to prevent NF from being able to claim 1/2 of any donation money should he return.
:shrug: [/*]
She couldn't protect him from getting half of the donation money since she received that during the marriage... if he chose to come back and try to do that.
I guess I don't really understand the point of your whole post. Community property or not.. it is in her best interest to legally seperate herself from him IF he is out there and doing things that could effect the both of them. (and she doesn't know that he is or isn't) Plus any money that she begins making since he left.. he could then be legally entitled to. Consequently.. it would be in his best interest to do the same since he doesn't know what debts or anything that she will begin to incur that he could be held legally responsible for.
Also.. like I said before.. just because it is a community property state does not mean that she would be strapped with 50% of the debt during a divorce proceeding. That does not happen very often and is used more for assets and capital than for debt division. They are usually divided up fairly based on what the parties make.
Washington is also a no fault divorce state so she doesn't have to have any grounds to divorce him.
beetlebrow
04-21-2008, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by Miss Behavin
I have thought from the beginning that he left on his own - that has been my belief all along - and I have not swayed from it. I worry, of course, that he may have met with foul play during this time, but since we have no indication in either direction, I feel it's important to look at everything .
I feel that in order to properly examine this case and post intelligently, without taking support away from anybody, all the facts need to be looked at and to me, that includes some of Christine's behavior as well as the double life Nicholas was leading.
We can all support Nicholas and that doesn't take anything away from supporting Christine, imo. On the other hand, not really knowing the details of the double life leaves a lot of questions about her behavior. Questioning her behavior doesn't take away from supporting her either. JMO [/*]
Nicely put :patriot:
late4dinner
04-21-2008, 04:42 PM
if Nicholas is alive, as many seem to think, then he could very well "have a voice" here, or anywhere for that matter, should he choose to.
The fact that he is not posting anywhere, or twittering, or whatever else he did before Feb 13th leads me to believe he is no longer alive.
MystryPhobia
04-21-2008, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by ThruTheTrees
Life insurance for a young and healthy male (I'm assuming he was a non-smoker too) is not that expensive. As responsible as everyone has described him as, and the fact that he has an unemployed wife and 2 small children, I wouldn't be surprised if he did have a supplementary insurance policy beyond just the basic one provided at his work. I hope that LE has looked into this, especially in light of the comments about "the guy has some financial problems" that LE made early on. [/*]
True.. but not many young couples in their twenties think about life insurance... that was my thinking. I didn't think about life insurance in my twenties and I was a responsible adult with small children then too.
Silver_Dove
04-21-2008, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by late4dinner
if Nicholas is alive, as many seem to think, then he could very well "have a voice" here, or anywhere for that matter, should he choose to.
The fact that he is not posting anywhere, or twittering, or whatever else he did before Feb 13th leads me to believe he is no longer alive. [/*]
If he is alive maybe he is to busy to have much time for the computer or maybe he has created all new accounts (not that hard) so just because he isn't using old accounts wouldn't mean a lot.
And maybe he just doesn't care what anyone thinks of him and is laughing at everyone dissecting every word that Christine says.
MystryPhobia
04-21-2008, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by Silver_Dove
If he is alive maybe he is to busy to have much time for the computer or maybe he has created all new accounts (not that hard) so just because he isn't using old accounts wouldn't mean a lot.
And maybe he just doesn't care what anyone thinks of him and is laughing at everyone dissecting every word that Christine says. [/*]
What is his middle name?
RainyNiteNTx
04-21-2008, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by Fallen Angel
I'm Catholic so even if adultery should happen you can always get counciling before thinking about divorce.
I could never imagine divorcing my missing husband :cuss: [/*]
I couldn't either, but evidently it is a personal decision. I just would feel horrible standing before a Judge divorcing him, not knowing if my husband was in need, in pain, or dead.
Silver_Dove
04-21-2008, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by Fallen Angel
I'm Catholic so even if adultery should happen you can always get counciling before thinking about divorce.
I could never imagine divorcing my missing husband :cuss: [/*]
True but what if you found info that let you to believe he had a girl friend that he was spending money on from a secret bank account that you and your children could have used?
Miss Behavin
04-21-2008, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by Silver_Dove
I find Christine divorcing Nicholas very interesting because as a Christian there is only one reason why she can divorce and that is Adultery. Since she is still saying she is very strong in her faith this could be her way of telling you without coming out with it that she has found evidence of adultery. [/*]
I wondered about that - as far as how her church would feel about a divorce.
It's certainly a possibility.
Silver_Dove
04-21-2008, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by MystryPhobia
What is his middle name? [/*]:confused:
JustFacts
04-21-2008, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by need2no
HOH said "Christine has filed for a divorce. This is in the best interest of her and the children, it was actually necessary that it be done for legal reasons." Ok.. so I've been doing some research regarding what these legal reasons might be that would necessitate filing for a divorce now that NF has been missing just a little over 2 months.
This one website about a missing spouse, legal issues and granting a divorce talks about Grant of Probate on the assumption of death: The Supreme Court is able to make an order to deal with the missing person’s assets when it is satisfied that the missing person is no longer alive.
A Grant of probate on the assumption of death may be made by the Supreme Court if there is a will.
**But as far as we know there is NO assumption of death, or even evidence of foul play. **
http://www.professionalstandardscouncil ... MP_map.pdf
What if One Partner Goes Missing:
If you have outstanding joint credit agreements in place and there is debt to be repaid and one of the couple goes missing, the creditor will come to the other joint signatory if they cannot track down the main cardholder. This can often be extremely stressful, especially where the main cardholder is the biggest earner and may have possibly run up the majority of the debt yet can’t be tracked down, leaving the lower income partner to have to try to deal with the debt as it is in joint names.
It should be emphasised that any pursuit of a debt relating to a joint credit agreement can be made on either party and it’s not a case of saying you will be liable for half of the debt accrued but not the other 50%. If no contact and subsequent agreement can be made with one party, then the other is liable for the total debt on the joint agreement that was made.
http://www.divorceresource.co.uk/PayingJointDebts.html
**Nothing in this article indicates there is anyway to get out of being responsible for joint debts, and since WA is a community property state ALL of 'their' debts would be JOINT debts.**
Desertion, which is called abandonment in some statutes, is a Divorce ground in a majority of states. Most statutes mandate that the abandonment continue for a certain period of time before a divorce action may be commenced. The length of this period varies between one and five years; it is most commonly one year. In addition, proof that the departed spouse left without the consent of the other spouse is required in most states
Desertion is frequently coupled with non-support, which is a failure to provide monetary resources for those to whom such an obligation is due. Nonsupport is a crime in a majority of states but prosecutions are uncommon.
Laws that embody the Enoch Arden Doctrine grant a divorce if evidence establishes that an individual's spouse has vanished and cannot be found through diligent efforts. A particular period of time must elapse. Sometimes, if conditions evidencing death can be exhibited, a divorce may be granted prior to the expiration of the time specified by law.
In some jurisdictions, the law is stringent regarding divorce grounds. In such instances, an Enoch Arden decree might be labeled a dissolution of the marriage rather than a divorce.
Upon the granting of an Enoch Arden decree, the marriage is terminated regardless of whether or not the absent spouse returns. Generally, the court provides that the plaintiff must show precisely what has been done to locate the missing person. Efforts to find the absent spouse might include inquiries made to friends or relatives to determine if they have had contact with the missing spouse, or checking public records for such documents as a marriage license, death certificate, tax returns, or application for Social Security in locations where the individual is known to have resided.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictiona ... ed+absence
**The Enoch Arden Doctrine addresses providing this relief (divorce) for the purpose of remarriage, not financial relief, or protection. **
**Whether married or divorced CF would be entitled to NF's life insurance if she is the beneficiary. Filing taxes as single head of household?**
So what are the legal reasons Christine needed to file for a divorce after 2 months? What's the benefit, the rush? Other than to protect herself from any future debt that NF may incur, and to prevent NF from being able to claim 1/2 of any donation money should he return.
:shrug: [/*]
Hasn't there been mention that CF was going to file for bankruptcy?
MystryPhobia
04-21-2008, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by Silver_Dove
:confused: [/*]
OMGosh. I just did a search on the washington courts to see if any divorce papers were showing up and entered his name and a CRIMINAL TRAFFIC and CRIMINAL NON TRAFFIC comes up in camas/washougal courts on 4-16-08 for a Nicholas M Francisco. That area is down south in the Vancouver, WA. area.:eek:
Couldn't remember what his middle name was tho.
figritout
04-21-2008, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by need2no
HOH said "Christine has filed for a divorce. This is in the best interest of her and the children, it was actually necessary that it be done for legal reasons." Ok.. so I've been doing some research regarding what these legal reasons might be that would necessitate filing for a divorce now that NF has been missing just a little over 2 months.
This one website about a missing spouse, legal issues and granting a divorce talks about Grant of Probate on the assumption of death: The Supreme Court is able to make an order to deal with the missing person’s assets when it is satisfied that the missing person is no longer alive.
A Grant of probate on the assumption of death may be made by the Supreme Court if there is a will.
**But as far as we know there is NO assumption of death, or even evidence of foul play. **
http://www.professionalstandardscouncil ... MP_map.pdf
What if One Partner Goes Missing:
If you have outstanding joint credit agreements in place and there is debt to be repaid and one of the couple goes missing, the creditor will come to the other joint signatory if they cannot track down the main cardholder. This can often be extremely stressful, especially where the main cardholder is the biggest earner and may have possibly run up the majority of the debt yet can’t be tracked down, leaving the lower income partner to have to try to deal with the debt as it is in joint names.
It should be emphasised that any pursuit of a debt relating to a joint credit agreement can be made on either party and it’s not a case of saying you will be liable for half of the debt accrued but not the other 50%. If no contact and subsequent agreement can be made with one party, then the other is liable for the total debt on the joint agreement that was made.
http://www.divorceresource.co.uk/PayingJointDebts.html
**Nothing in this article indicates there is anyway to get out of being responsible for joint debts, and since WA is a community property state ALL of 'their' debts would be JOINT debts.**
Desertion, which is called abandonment in some statutes, is a Divorce ground in a majority of states. Most statutes mandate that the abandonment continue for a certain period of time before a divorce action may be commenced. The length of this period varies between one and five years; it is most commonly one year. In addition, proof that the departed spouse left without the consent of the other spouse is required in most states
Desertion is frequently coupled with non-support, which is a failure to provide monetary resources for those to whom such an obligation is due. Nonsupport is a crime in a majority of states but prosecutions are uncommon.
Laws that embody the Enoch Arden Doctrine grant a divorce if evidence establishes that an individual's spouse has vanished and cannot be found through diligent efforts. A particular period of time must elapse. Sometimes, if conditions evidencing death can be exhibited, a divorce may be granted prior to the expiration of the time specified by law.
In some jurisdictions, the law is stringent regarding divorce grounds. In such instances, an Enoch Arden decree might be labeled a dissolution of the marriage rather than a divorce.
Upon the granting of an Enoch Arden decree, the marriage is terminated regardless of whether or not the absent spouse returns. Generally, the court provides that the plaintiff must show precisely what has been done to locate the missing person. Efforts to find the absent spouse might include inquiries made to friends or relatives to determine if they have had contact with the missing spouse, or checking public records for such documents as a marriage license, death certificate, tax returns, or application for Social Security in locations where the individual is known to have resided.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictiona ... ed+absence
**The Enoch Arden Doctrine addresses providing this relief (divorce) for the purpose of remarriage, not financial relief, or protection. **
**Whether married or divorced CF would be entitled to NF's life insurance if she is the beneficiary. Filing taxes as single head of household?**
So what are the legal reasons Christine needed to file for a divorce after 2 months? What's the benefit, the rush? Other than to protect herself from any future debt that NF may incur, and to prevent NF from being able to claim 1/2 of any donation money should he return.
AWESOME JOB! Thank you...
:shrug: [/*]
RainyNiteNTx
04-21-2008, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by MystryPhobia
OMGosh. I just did a search on the washington courts to see if any divorce papers were showing up and entered his name and a CRIMINAL TRAFFIC and CRIMINAL NON TRAFFIC comes up in camas/washougal courts on 4-16-08 for a Nicholas M Francisco. That area is down south in the Vancouver, WA. area.:eek:
Couldn't remember what his middle name was tho. [/*]
His middle initial is "S" - not sure of the name.
ThruTheTrees
04-21-2008, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by MystryPhobia
OMGosh. I just did a search on the washington courts to see if any divorce papers were showing up and entered his name and a CRIMINAL TRAFFIC and CRIMINAL NON TRAFFIC comes up in camas/washougal courts on 4-16-08 for a Nicholas M Francisco. That area is down south in the Vancouver, WA. area.:eek:
Couldn't remember what his middle name was tho. [/*]
Stephen
Silver_Dove
04-21-2008, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by JustFacts
Hasn't there been mention that CF was going to file for bankruptcy? [/*]
After finding evidence of adultery she may have decided to go the divorce route instead since if I remember right since he was the one making all the money they could assign the "debts of the marriage" to him and she would have no credit but it also wouldn't be destroyed. Much better for her credit record then a bankruptcy.
need2no
04-21-2008, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by MystryPhobia
She couldn't protect him from getting half of the donation money since she received that during the marriage... if he chose to come back and try to do that.
I guess I don't really understand the point of your whole post. Community property or not.. it is in her best interest to legally seperate herself from him IF he is out there and doing things that could effect the both of them. (and she doesn't know that he is or isn't) Plus any money that she begins making since he left.. he could then be legally entitled to. Consequently.. it would be in his best interest to do the same since he doesn't know what debts or anything that she will begin to incur that he could be held legally responsible for.
Also.. like I said before.. just because it is a community property state does not mean that she would be strapped with 50% of the debt during a divorce proceeding. That does not happen very often and is used more for assets and capital than for debt division. They are usually divided up fairly based on what the parties make.
Washington is also a no fault divorce state so she doesn't have to have any grounds to divorce him. [/*]
Sorry...I wasn't clear. I meant any donation money she receives or money she makes from her home business AFTER the divorce is final. Yes, NF would be entitled to any money she has now BEFORE a divorce is finalized.
I don't claim to be an expert, that's why I did research. According to this CF would still be liable:
What if One Partner Goes Missing:
If you have outstanding joint credit agreements in place and there is debt to be repaid and one of the couple goes missing, the creditor will come to the other joint signatory if they cannot track down the main cardholder. This can often be extremely stressful, especially where the main cardholder is the biggest earner and may have possibly run up the majority of the debt yet can’t be tracked down, leaving the lower income partner to have to try to deal with the debt as it is in joint names.
It should be emphasised that any pursuit of a debt relating to a joint credit agreement can be made on either party and it’s not a case of saying you will be liable for half of the debt accrued but not the other 50%. If no contact and subsequent agreement can be made with one party, then the other is liable for the total debt on the joint agreement that was made.
http://www.divorceresource.co.uk/PayingJointDebts.html
So I don't see how divorce would change this. If they divide the debt based on what the parties make CF would come out WAY ahead on that one.
When my hubby and his X were divorced they had their taxes completed filing jointly since they had lived together for 6 months of the previous year. The X didn't advise hubby when she changed her mind and rushed to file as single head of household and claimed all their deductions and received a whopping refund, and hubby was stuck with a huge debt to pay. His attorney advised him to let it go and pay to protect his wages from IRS garnishment because it would take a long time to straighten out the complicated mess she made. He was also constantly hounded by bill collectors for her portion of their debts because she didn't pay them and got an unlisted number so they couldn't contact her. My point is I guess whoever gets the jump on the other comes out ahead. Hopefully Nicholas is reading the forums.
Miss Behavin
04-21-2008, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by late4dinner
if Nicholas is alive, as many seem to think, then he could very well "have a voice" here, or anywhere for that matter, should he choose to.
The fact that he is not posting anywhere, or twittering, or whatever else he did before Feb 13th leads me to believe he is no longer alive. [/*]
If he is alive he could use his voice to let someone know he is alive and okay. So many people would appreciate hearing from him I'm sure.
If he is alive and has been keeping up with the news reports online, maybe he is embarrassed by what has been revealed. Maybe he doesn't know what to say or how to deal with it quite yet - it was a secret for a reason.
I pray that if he is alive, regardless of what else is going on in his life, that he please contact somebody!
MystryPhobia
04-21-2008, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by need2no
Sorry...I wasn't clear. I meant any donation money she receives or money she makes from her home business AFTER the divorce is final. Yes, NF would be entitled to any money she has now BEFORE a divorce is finalized.
I don't claim to be an expert, that's why I did research. According to this CF would still be liable:
What if One Partner Goes Missing:
If you have outstanding joint credit agreements in place and there is debt to be repaid and one of the couple goes missing, the creditor will come to the other joint signatory if they cannot track down the main cardholder. This can often be extremely stressful, especially where the main cardholder is the biggest earner and may have possibly run up the majority of the debt yet can’t be tracked down, leaving the lower income partner to have to try to deal with the debt as it is in joint names.
It should be emphasised that any pursuit of a debt relating to a joint credit agreement can be made on either party and it’s not a case of saying you will be liable for half of the debt accrued but not the other 50%. If no contact and subsequent agreement can be made with one party, then the other is liable for the total debt on the joint agreement that was made.
http://www.divorceresource.co.uk/PayingJointDebts.html
So I don't see how divorce would change this. If they divide the debt based on what the parties make CF would come out WAY ahead on that one.
When my hubby and his X were divorced they had their taxes completed filing jointly since they had lived together for 6 months of the previous year. The X didn't advise hubby when she changed her mind and rushed to file as single head of household and claimed all their deductions and received a whopping refund, and hubby was stuck with a huge debt to pay. His attorney advised him to let it go and pay to protect his wages from IRS garnishment because it would take a long time to straighten out the complicated mess she made. He was also constantly hounded by bill collectors for her portion of their debts because she didn't pay them and got an unlisted number so they couldn't contact her. My point is I guess whoever gets the jump on the other comes out ahead. Hopefully Nicholas is reading the forums. [/*]
Thanks for clarifying that. I see what you mean now. Sorry about that.
I thought you said all of that just to prove that she wants a divorce so that she can keep the donated money. It really is in both of their best interest to seperate legally although she doesn't have to divorce him to make that happen.. she could legally seperate from him and get the same result.
I guess I wonder too why she is making this drastic of a step unless she is starting to wonder if he didn't leave on his own. I hadn't heard that is the way that she felt tho. She left a message on the 18th saying that he is still missing and she is still looking for him. I just wonder if she is starting to doubt herself.. as to what she thinks happened to him.
MystryPhobia
04-21-2008, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by ThruTheTrees
Stephen [/*]
I still think it is worth looking into who that person is. A middle initial could be written down wrong. It is in the area where we know that he has lived and we know that he has lots of family in the same area.
K Anne
04-21-2008, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by need2no
My point is I guess whoever gets the jump on the other comes out ahead. Hopefully Nicholas is reading the forums. [/*]
OMG WTH is wrong with you. barf
If he's reading the forums he's out there free of his marital partnership, free of the responsibility of parenting his 2 beautiful kids and the baby on the way, free of paying his mortgage, free of going to work 9-5...
You know who the real victims are in this story? It's those kids. Nicholas's kids are suffering from what he did -- if you go with the idea that he walked and is out there reading these forums -- his kids are suffering because of what HE DID. If he is alive somewhere and willfully invisible to his family, he is *hurting his own children*.
And you hope he gets the jump? That is totally crazy.
Silver_Dove
04-21-2008, 05:25 PM
Originally posted by K Anne
OMG WTH is wrong with you. barf
If he's reading the forums he's out there free of his marital partnership, free of the responsibility of parenting his 2 beautiful kids and the baby on the way, free of paying his mortgage, free of going to work 9-5...
You know who the real victims are in this story? It's those kids. Nicholas's kids are suffering from what he did -- if you go with the idea that he walked and is out there reading these forums -- his kids are suffering because of what HE DID. If he is alive somewhere and willfully invisible to his family, he is *hurting his own children*.
And you hope he gets the jump? That is totally crazy. [/*]
So so true if he is alive and if he isn't the divorce won't hurt him in the least and will help Christine and her children.
zenharmony19
04-21-2008, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by Silver_Dove
After finding evidence of adultery she may have decided to go the divorce route instead since if I remember right since he was the one making all the money they could assign the "debts of the marriage" to him and she would have no credit but it also wouldn't be destroyed. Much better for her credit record then a bankruptcy. [/*]
If this is the case, maybe by getting a divorce the foreclosure on the house will weigh less on her credit rating, if at all. Since he was the breadwinner, the mortgage and second mortgage would be in his name. That would be one good reason for the divorce, especially if she thinks its possible he just took off.
zenharmony19
04-21-2008, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by Silver_Dove
So so true if he is alive and if he isn't the divorce won't hurt him in the least and will help Christine and her children. [/*]
That's right, people seem to forget about the children a lot. :confused:
ThruTheTrees
04-21-2008, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by MystryPhobia
I still think it is worth looking into who that person is. A middle initial could be written down wrong. It is in the area where we know that he has lived and we know that he has lots of family in the same area. [/*]
Yes, I thought about that when I saw it in the court records the other day (I check both of their names every morning on the state records site -- still no record of a divorce being filed yet either, BTW). I'm not sure what LE's policy is on releasing info to the public though on something like this.
MystryPhobia
04-21-2008, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by ThruTheTrees
Yes, I thought about that when I saw it in the court records the other day (I check both of their names every morning on the state records site -- still no record of a divorce being filed yet either, BTW). I'm not sure what LE's policy is on releasing info to the public though on something like this. [/*]
I found it interesting because of where it was located and because we know he has ties to that area... but I also look cause you never know if someone will start using his name.
KKKKKKatie
04-21-2008, 05:52 PM
What I am wondering is why a divorce at this time and not a legal separation? Wouldn't that accomplish the same thing...separting her from financial problems of his from that time forward?
Miss Behavin
04-21-2008, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by zenharmony19
If this is the case, maybe by getting a divorce the foreclosure on the house will weigh less on her credit rating, if at all. Since he was the breadwinner, the mortgage and second mortgage would be in his name. That would be one good reason for the divorce, especially if she thinks its possible he just took off. [/*]
And, God forbid, if he did meet with foul play, would a divorce before finding out offer the same protection?
KKKKKKatie
04-21-2008, 06:10 PM
Originally posted by EG~Lives
Why do you think the mortgage would be in his name only?
Also, the dissolution of a marriage absolutely does not absolve her of financial responsibility on any debts they accrued while married.
And, the civil judgement by a court saying he is responsible doesn't absolve her either. The best she could do is sue him for the $$ to pay the creditor. The creditor WILL try to collect from her.
And not just 50%...but 100% if they aren't able to make contact with Nicholas. [/*]
that is my understanding also EG
:seeya:
Musterion
04-21-2008, 06:10 PM
Originally posted by need2no
HOH said "Christine has filed for a divorce. This is in the best interest of her and the children, it was actually necessary that it be done for legal reasons." Ok.. so I've been doing some research regarding what these legal reasons might be that would necessitate filing for a divorce now that NF has been missing just a little over 2 months.
This one website about a missing spouse, legal issues and granting a divorce talks about Grant of Probate on the assumption of death: The Supreme Court is able to make an order to deal with the missing person’s assets when it is satisfied that the missing person is no longer alive.
A Grant of probate on the assumption of death may be made by the Supreme Court if there is a will.
**But as far as we know there is NO assumption of death, or even evidence of foul play. **
http://www.professionalstandardscouncil ... MP_map.pdf
What if One Partner Goes Missing:
If you have outstanding joint credit agreements in place and there is debt to be repaid and one of the couple goes missing, the creditor will come to the other joint signatory if they cannot track down the main cardholder. This can often be extremely stressful, especially where the main cardholder is the biggest earner and may have possibly run up the majority of the debt yet can’t be tracked down, leaving the lower income partner to have to try to deal with the debt as it is in joint names.
It should be emphasised that any pursuit of a debt relating to a joint credit agreement can be made on either party and it’s not a case of saying you will be liable for half of the debt accrued but not the other 50%. If no contact and subsequent agreement can be made with one party, then the other is liable for the total debt on the joint agreement that was made.
http://www.divorceresource.co.uk/PayingJointDebts.html
**Nothing in this article indicates there is anyway to get out of being responsible for joint debts, and since WA is a community property state ALL of 'their' debts would be JOINT debts.**
Desertion, which is called abandonment in some statutes, is a Divorce ground in a majority of states. Most statutes mandate that the abandonment continue for a certain period of time before a divorce action may be commenced. The length of this period varies between one and five years; it is most commonly one year. In addition, proof that the departed spouse left without the consent of the other spouse is required in most states
Desertion is frequently coupled with non-support, which is a failure to provide monetary resources for those to whom such an obligation is due. Nonsupport is a crime in a majority of states but prosecutions are uncommon.
Laws that embody the Enoch Arden Doctrine grant a divorce if evidence establishes that an individual's spouse has vanished and cannot be found through diligent efforts. A particular period of time must elapse. Sometimes, if conditions evidencing death can be exhibited, a divorce may be granted prior to the expiration of the time specified by law.
In some jurisdictions, the law is stringent regarding divorce grounds. In such instances, an Enoch Arden decree might be labeled a dissolution of the marriage rather than a divorce.
Upon the granting of an Enoch Arden decree, the marriage is terminated regardless of whether or not the absent spouse returns. Generally, the court provides that the plaintiff must show precisely what has been done to locate the missing person. Efforts to find the absent spouse might include inquiries made to friends or relatives to determine if they have had contact with the missing spouse, or checking public records for such documents as a marriage license, death certificate, tax returns, or application for Social Security in locations where the individual is known to have resided.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictiona ... ed+absence
**The Enoch Arden Doctrine addresses providing this relief (divorce) for the purpose of remarriage, not financial relief, or protection. **
**Whether married or divorced CF would be entitled to NF's life insurance if she is the beneficiary. Filing taxes as single head of household?**
So what are the legal reasons Christine needed to file for a divorce after 2 months? What's the benefit, the rush? Other than to protect herself from any future debt that NF may incur, and to prevent NF from being able to claim 1/2 of any donation money should he return.
:shrug: [/*]
Sole custody of two children and one unborn child. IMO.
A legal separation would not, in my mind, safeguard my children permanently. I would file for divorce, not legal separation, even if that were the only advantage of a divorce.
Wanting to make clear that only IF there was any chance that he was alive and had abandoned us. LE has said there is that chance. That would be enough for me to make the determination to have the legal status as sole guardian of my children. JMO.
SeattleEddie
04-21-2008, 06:12 PM
Washington is a community property state, any properties acquired during the marriage belong to both parties. Properties or assets acquired through inheritance are exempt.
SeattleEddie
04-21-2008, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by ThruTheTrees
Yes, I thought about that when I saw it in the court records the other day (I check both of their names every morning on the state records site -- still no record of a divorce being filed yet either, BTW). I'm not sure what LE's policy is on releasing info to the public though on something like this. [/*]
In Washington state, all public records are available in full at the clerk's office or courthouse, depending on jurisdiction, except if they have been sealed by court order, which happens rarely.
KKKKKKatie
04-21-2008, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by Musterion
Sole custody of two children and one unborn child. IMO.
A legal separation would not, in my mind, safeguard my children permanently. I would file for divorce, not legal separation, even if that were the only advantage of a divorce.
Wanting to make clear that only IF there was any chance that he was alive and had abandoned us. LE has said there is that chance. That would be enough for me to make the determination to have the legal status as sole guardian of my children. JMO. [/*]
why wouldn't a legal separation safeguard the kids? A judge still rules on the custody of them while the separation is in force I believe???
Silver_Dove
04-21-2008, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by KKKKKKatie
What I am wondering is why a divorce at this time and not a legal separation? Wouldn't that accomplish the same thing...separting her from financial problems of his from that time forward? [/*]
Because Washington is a no fault divorce state they are very reluctant to go for legal separation. Most people who legally separate end up divorcing in a few years anyway just clogging the system. Keeps the system less clogged by giving them all divorces and letting them remarry later if they change their minds.
KKKKKKatie
04-21-2008, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by Silver_Dove
Because Washington is a no fault divorce state they are very reluctant to go for legal separation. Most people who legally separate end up divorcing in a few years anyway just clogging the system. Keeps the system less clogged by giving them all divorces and letting them remarry later if they change their minds. [/*]
You are saying that they are not allowed by the State?
zenharmony19
04-21-2008, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by EG~Lives
Why do you think the mortgage would be in his name only?
Also, the dissolution of a marriage absolutely does not absolve her of financial responsibility on any debts they accrued while married.
And, the civil judgement by a court saying he is responsible doesn't absolve her either. The best she could do is sue him for the $$ to pay the creditor. The creditor WILL try to collect from her.
And not just 50%...but 100% if they aren't able to make contact with Nicholas. [/*]
I was commenting on the mortgage because in the past my husband and I have purchased properties and because at the time I was not working the mortgages were put in his name. There was no reason to put my name on the mortgage, of course it could have gone on it. In the house I currently live in, my name is on the deed, but not the mortgage.
That's just the way we did it.
I don't know about anything else.
Musterion
04-21-2008, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
I couldn't either, but evidently it is a personal decision. I just would feel horrible standing before a Judge divorcing him, not knowing if my husband was in need, in pain, or dead. [/*]
Hi Rainy!
I know. And it is a very personal decision.
I'm wondering, though, if there was something that you found out about your husband that you didn't know about after he went missing that appalled you would you feel the same?
It's all hypothetical and I realize you are coming at this from the standpoint that Nicholas' secret life may not even be valid. But, what if, what your SO was doing for a few years behind your back was devastating? Wouldn't protecting your children be the first thing on your mind? Wouldn't it scare you that maybe, if he came back, he could have legal claim to them as much as you do, which could mean that they would be exposed to things that you felt your children should not be exposed to?
I know, for me, nothing would stop me from getting sole custody of my child if there were any chance that my SO was still alive and the situation was as described above. JMO.
Fallen Angel
04-21-2008, 06:23 PM
Originally posted by Musterion
Sole custody of two children and one unborn child. IMO.
A legal separation would not, in my mind, safeguard my children permanently. I would file for divorce, not legal separation, even if that were the only advantage of a divorce.
Wanting to make clear that only IF there was any chance that he was alive and had abandoned us. LE has said there is that chance. That would be enough for me to make the determination to have the legal status as sole guardian of my children. JMO. [/*]a divorced does not automaticly give her custody though.
Silver_Dove
04-21-2008, 06:27 PM
Originally posted by Fallen Angel
a divorced does not automaticly give her custody though. [/*]
It will if he doesn't show up.
KKKKKKatie
04-21-2008, 06:27 PM
Legal seperations are allowed in WA and I can't find anything that says they are hard to get. I must admitt tho I haven't had time to search for long
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=26.09.020
Musterion
04-21-2008, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by KKKKKKatie
why wouldn't a legal separation safeguard the kids? A judge still rules on the custody of them while the separation is in force I believe??? [/*]
To be honest, Katie. I wouldn't take the chance. I just wouldn't. If my SO came back during the time of the legal separation he could fight for custody of the children. Or even visitation and probably get it.
It would scare me to let my kids go with someone who took off (NOT saying this is what happened with Nicholas!!!) and left a marriage of seven years, two children and one on the way with no income. It would scare me that if he had the children alone for an afternoon that he could decide to leave again and take them with him and I'd never see them again.
No matter what anyone said or thought of me, I just wouldn't take that chance. JMO.
KKKKKKatie
04-21-2008, 06:32 PM
Originally posted by Musterion
To be honest, Katie. I wouldn't take the chance. I just wouldn't. If my SO came back during the time of the legal separation he could fight for custody of the children. Or even visitation and probably get it.
It would scare me to let my kids go with someone who took off (NOT saying this is what happened with Nicholas!!!) and left a marriage of seven years, two children and one on the way with no income. It would scare me that if he had the children alone for an afternoon that he could decide to leave again and take them with him and I'd never see them again.
No matter what anyone said or thought of me, I just wouldn't take that chance. JMO. [/*]
I understand the feeling Must. However, I guess, for me it would depend on the why he is missing. Foulplay vs walking away
Silver_Dove
04-21-2008, 06:32 PM
Originally posted by KKKKKKatie
You are saying that they are not allowed by the State? [/*]
I just know that when I wanted one the lawyer made it sound like I couldn't get one or would be unlikely to be granted one. Might just have been that if Christine feels that because of something she found out she just couldn't live with him again and was told the divorce was best.
Fallen Angel
04-21-2008, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by Silver_Dove
It will if he doesn't show up. [/*]if he doesn't show up of course but with that being said why would she need a divorce ?
Musterion
04-21-2008, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by Fallen Angel
a divorced does not automaticly give her custody though. [/*]
You're right Fallen Angel. It does not.
He would have to default. A divorce is a lawsuit like most any lawsuit. If I sue you and you don't come to court the judge will more than likely rule in my favour. The courts seem to not like when people don't show up to a court mandated hearing.
Is that fair? Not to the one who choose to not come to court or who, for whatever reason, didn't know that they were supposed to be in court. (And yes, Rainy! If they are dead they would not be able to show up in court!)But, that is the way the court system seems to work. In most cases.
I imagine there will be evidence presented that Nicholas could be alive and evidence that would show that he is a flight risk with the children. I think most judges would grant the petitioner what she is asking for. JMO.
Silver_Dove
04-21-2008, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by Fallen Angel
if he doesn't show up of course but with that being said why would she need a divorce ? [/*]
Because if he is alive she won't be responsible. Also because he had the income the judge could rule that he is responsible for the "debts of the marriage" It also give her full control of any assets they may own jointly. So there are many ways it would protect her if he is alive and she loses very little if he is dead.
She will still get SS as long as the children are under 18 and will get any life insurance if he is dead.
RainyNiteNTx
04-21-2008, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by Musterion
Hi Rainy!
I know. And it is a very personal decision.
I'm wondering, though, if there was something that you found out about your husband that you didn't know about after he went missing that appalled you would you feel the same?
It's all hypothetical and I realize you are coming at this from the standpoint that Nicholas' secret life may not even be valid. But, what if, what your SO was doing for a few years behind your back was devastating? Wouldn't protecting your children be the first thing on your mind? Wouldn't it scare you that maybe, if he came back, he could have legal claim to them as much as you do, which could mean that they would be exposed to things that you felt your children should not be exposed to?
I know, for me, nothing would stop me from getting sole custody of my child if there were any chance that my SO was still alive and the situation was as described above. JMO. [/*]
Absolutely I would protect my children. But I would have to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I was doing the right thing, i.e. that my husband was most likely alive and choosing to not be with us and living another life.
Musterion
04-21-2008, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by KKKKKKatie
I understand the feeling Must. However, I guess, for me it would depend on the why he is missing. Foulplay vs walking away [/*]
And I think that, based on what LE has told Christine, it is either. If there was a chance that he was alive, I would file. Quickly. JMO.
Silver_Dove
04-21-2008, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
Absolutely I would protect my children. But I would have to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I was doing the right thing, i.e. that my husband was most likely alive and choosing to not be with us and living another life. [/*]
Maybe she does but they just can't find him. Filing may bring him out if he is alive and won't harm him if he isn't.
isitme
04-21-2008, 06:39 PM
If the reason for the divorce is for her gret custody of the children so that he can't "expose" them to things that she feels are inappropriate or take them and run away with them. . . . what will she do when he resurfaces? (This all assumes that he is alive of course, and if he isn't a divorce for any reasons won't matter). He would surely be given visitaion at some point if asked for it and even with supervised visitations the visiting parent has been known to run with the kids and/or expose them to objectionable things.
KKKKKKatie
04-21-2008, 06:40 PM
Originally posted by Silver_Dove
I just know that when I wanted one the lawyer made it sound like I couldn't get one or would be unlikely to be granted one. Might just have been that if Christine feels that because of something she found out she just couldn't live with him again and was told the divorce was best. [/*]
Then you really need to put an IMO when it is your opinion and not a fact. You wrote the original post as if it were a fact. That is why I was confused.
Musterion
04-21-2008, 06:40 PM
Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
Absolutely I would protect my children. But I would have to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I was doing the right thing, i.e. that my husband was most likely alive and choosing to not be with us and living another life. [/*]
How could you be sure beyond a shadow of a doubt?
If you have the experts, LE, saying that there is even a one per cent chance that he's alive wouldn't that be good enough for you to take legal steps to protect your children?
How would you, in this situation, know beyond a shadow of a doubt?
Silver_Dove
04-21-2008, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by isitme
If the reason for the divorce is for her gret custody of the children so that he can't "expose" them to things that she feels are inappropriate or take them and run away with them. . . . what will she do when he resurfaces? (This all assumes that he is alive of course, and if he isn't a divorce for any reasons won't matter). He would surely be given visitaion at some point if asked for it and even with supervised visitations the visiting parent has been known to run with the kids and/or expose them to objectionable things. [/*]
I think after having proved he would run and hide once it would be highly unlikely he would be give unsupervised visitation exactly for the reason you stated.
KKKKKKatie
04-21-2008, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by KKKKKKatie
Then you really need to put an IMO when it is your opinion and not a fact. You wrote the original post as if it were a fact. That is why I was confused. [/*]
I am quoting myself because I didn't read your sig line Silver. Sorry...
Musterion
04-21-2008, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by isitme
If the reason for the divorce is for her gret custody of the children so that he can't "expose" them to things that she feels are inappropriate or take them and run away with them. . . . what will she do when he resurfaces? (This all assumes that he is alive of course, and if he isn't a divorce for any reasons won't matter). He would surely be given visitaion at some point if asked for it and even with supervised visitations the visiting parent has been known to run with the kids and/or expose them to objectionable things. [/*]
Hi isitme,
Well, I disagree. I don't believe it is a given that he would be granted any visitation with the children he abandoned. If he resurfaces the burden of proof would be on him, IMO, to prove he is not a flight risk with the children and that he is safe for the children to be around.
Again, I do not know if this is the case with Nicholas. I pray it is not. JMO. What I should say, I pray he is alive and has just not been able to come home and it isn't that he won't come home.
Silver_Dove
04-21-2008, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by KKKKKKatie
Then you really need to put an IMO when it is your opinion and not a fact. You wrote the original post as if it were a fact. That is why I was confused. [/*]
You are correct. I just had it in my head they didn't allow it because of something my lawyer said years ago. My bad.
Silver_Dove
04-21-2008, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by KKKKKKatie
I am quoting myself because I didn't read your sig line Silver. Sorry... [/*]
That's ok. I get thinking about what I'm typing sometimes and forget to say IMO so I put it in my sig. Not perfect but was the best I could come up with of a forgetful brain.
KKKKKKatie
04-21-2008, 06:51 PM
they are saying on OC that Harletts place was hacked into today :eek:
Anybody know anything?
isitme
04-21-2008, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by Musterion
Hi isitme,
Well, I disagree. I don't believe it is a given that he would be granted any visitation with the children he abandoned. If he resurfaces the burden of proof would be on him, IMO, to prove he is not a flight risk with the children and that he is safe for the children to be around.
Again, I do not know if this is the case with Nicholas. I pray it is not. JMO. What I should say, I pray he is alive and has just not been able to come home and it isn't that he won't come home. [/*]
Unless he is a proven harm to the children while he is with them then it would be most likely that he would be given some visitation. IMO.
If the reason for the divorce is to protect them from being exposed to to him should he come back then I would think temination of perental rights would be more effective. That would remove him entirely from their lives. In effect he would no longer be their father. However in doing that she gives up the right to any future inheritance and SS benefits. (But then those aren't payable unless/until he is dead.)
SeattleEddie
04-21-2008, 06:53 PM
In Washington state, BTW, gifts are also individual property, like inheritances. So if Nicholas resurfaced, wife would not have to share the gifted funds with him.
RainyNiteNTx
04-21-2008, 06:57 PM
Originally posted by Musterion
How could you be sure beyond a shadow of a doubt?
If you have the experts, LE, saying that there is even a one per cent chance that he's alive wouldn't that be good enough for you to take legal steps to protect your children?
How would you, in this situation, know beyond a shadow of a doubt? [/*]
I would have to have some type of proof or some very strong indication he was alive.
Silver_Dove
04-21-2008, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by KKKKKKatie
they are saying on OC that Harletts place was hacked into today :eek:
Anybody know anything? [/*]
I just went and checked and yes random idiots did hack it. One of the fears every web site own must face and fear.
I wouldn't suggest anyone without good computer security go. I'm running a full scan on mine right now.
I'm so sorry HarrletOhara. :rose: so much work destroyed by idiots. I hope they have a full backup.
WootieTizz
04-21-2008, 07:06 PM
Originally posted by KKKKKKatie
they are saying on OC that Harletts place was hacked into today :eek:
Anybody know anything? [/*]
Yep, I just went over there and it was definitely hacked. My browser window shrunk to a small box and darted around my screen. It was weird.
SeattleEddie
04-21-2008, 07:14 PM
Originally posted by SeattleEddie
In Washington state, BTW, gifts are also individual property, like inheritances. So if Nicholas resurfaced, wife would not have to share the gifted funds with him. [/*]
Quoting myself, because I should have added IMO to the last phrase in the sentence. It could conceivably be shown that the gifts were intended for both, and it also depends on the signators on the bank account accepting donations. It's an interesting question in an MP case.
Miss Behavin
04-21-2008, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by KKKKKKatie
they are saying on OC that Harletts place was hacked into today :eek:
Anybody know anything? [/*]
Yes, it was freaky too!
I had left my computer on when I went to run errands, came back and refreshed my page, and this sparkly background came on and it said some yahoo email address had hacked it.......
Shelby1
04-21-2008, 07:31 PM
Oh wow, that's scary! I bet Harlett and Grande are so upset.
I was on way early this morning and it was fine.
I started to open it and then read what happened so I shut it real quick.
Miss Behavin
04-21-2008, 07:32 PM
I'm gonna log off and do a virus scan - I'm scared now after hearing everyone on OC.
Be back in a bit!
Danette44
04-21-2008, 07:45 PM
Originally posted by zenharmony19
That's right, people seem to forget about the children a lot. :confused: [/*]
Seems to me people seen to forget this board is about a MISSING HUSBAND......:confused:
Silver_Dove
04-21-2008, 07:54 PM
Originally posted by Danette44
Seems to me people seen to forget this board is about a MISSING HUSBAND......:confused: [/*]
So true it is all Christine all the time now days.
Danette44
04-21-2008, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by Silver_Dove
So true it is all Christine all the time now days. [/*]
Pretty sad - it's really getting to sound like Nicholas is some kind of monster and thats why she is getting a divorce from him to protect the children. Nicholas is known by all his co-workers and friends of a loving and devoted husband that adored his wife and children. JMOO
Shimz
04-21-2008, 08:19 PM
I just thought I'd add my two cents. I haven't finished catching up on today's posts so if this was discussed today, sorry.
I feel like it is one thing to divorce someone because it would legally help them (even though I think, here in NY anyway maybe it is different in WA, that your eligibilty for aid is based on the income of your household and has nothing to do if you are "married" or not... if a man and woman live together there is no difference in their eligibility than if they are "married") anyway, back to the point...
It is one thing to divorce someone because of something that may be beyond your control... it is another to publically declare you are divorced on a social networking site.
My point being, as spiritual a person as CF is, would it really matter to her if a piece of paper says that she is not married anymore? Wouldn't they still be married under the eyes of GOD? Still spiritually connected? Am I making sense here?
To me that shows anger, as if to say she knows he is alive and she wants him to see this, see what he has put her through...
Another reason I find it strange is that divorce is usually not so embraced by a church... so why be so quick to call yourself a "divorcee" especially if it isn't even FINALIZED yet!
Divorced is such a harsh word... if she believes he is dead, why not call yourself "widowed"...
I don't know... just ranting now...
Shimz
04-21-2008, 08:21 PM
The main thing is that the whole situations makes me feel that he is alive, and perhaps HAS contacted SOMEONE who has let CF know it...
It is not completely impossible...
Musterion
04-21-2008, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx
I would have to have some type of proof or some very strong indication he was alive. [/*]
Hi Rainy!
I'm trying to understand what that would be in your opinion?
I just believe that if LE told me there was any chance that he was alive it would be enough proof for me to think I needed to act quickly on behalf of my children.
I would be heartsick if I didn't take action to protect my children and he was alive and came back and took them away or had a right to them and exposed them to things that may not be illegal but were immoral or harmful to them. (Remember, I'm not saying that this is what Nicholas did!!!) If that happened I would continually berate myself for not taking action when I could have. When I had the chance to. I wouldn't forgive myself. JMO.
desmom
04-21-2008, 08:31 PM
Originally posted by Danette44
Pretty sad - it's really getting to sound like Nicholas is some kind of monster and thats why she is getting a divorce from him to protect the children. Nicholas is known by all his co-workers and friends of a loving and devoted husband that adored his wife and children. JMOO [/*]
:seeya:
CF said the same thing.
IMO, it does not add up to filing for a divorce.
:shrug:
Silver_Dove
04-21-2008, 08:31 PM
Originally posted by Shimz
I just thought I'd add my two cents. I haven't finished catching up on today's posts so if this was discussed today, sorry.
I feel like it is one thing to divorce someone because it would legally help them (even though I think, here in NY anyway maybe it is different in WA, that your eligibilty for aid is based on the income of your household and has nothing to do if you are "married" or not... if a man and woman live together there is no difference in their eligibility than if they are "married") anyway, back to the point...
It is one thing to divorce someone because of something that may be beyond your control... it is another to publically declare you are divorced on a social networking site.
My point being, as spiritual a person as CF is, would it really matter to her if a piece of paper says that she is not married anymore? Wouldn't they still be married under the eyes of GOD? Still spiritually connected? Am I making sense here?
To me that shows anger, as if to say she knows he is alive and she wants him to see this, see what he has put her through...
Another reason I find it strange is that divorce is usually not so embraced by a church... so why be so quick to call yourself a "divorcee" especially if it isn't even FINALIZED yet!
Divorced is such a harsh word... if she believes he is dead, why not call yourself "widowed"...
I don't know... just ranting now... [/*]
Maybe in all the searching of the secret life she found that he had committed adultery which is the one reason she would be justified spiritually to divorce him. Maybe she also though people would figure this out since they seem to analyze everything else she does. As a Christian the only way she can divorce is for adultery.
Shimz
04-21-2008, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by MystryPhobia
True.. but not many young couples in their twenties think about life insurance... that was my thinking. I didn't think about life insurance in my twenties and I was a responsible adult with small children then too. [/*]
I agree... but my company has an insurance policy for all employees that is free... it starts at $40,000 and goes up after 5 years and then again at 10 years... I don't know if Publicis had something like that but it is a big company
edited to add: I do not have a private life ins. policy bc I am in my 20s and I see no need bc I am not married nor do I have any children or any substantial debt (left to my family?) but if i did have a husband and children I would def consider it... My father always told me that is important even to think of when you are young bc you never know..
RainyNiteNTx
04-21-2008, 08:35 PM
Originally posted by Danette44
Pretty sad - it's really getting to sound like Nicholas is some kind of monster and thats why she is getting a divorce from him to protect the children. Nicholas is known by all his co-workers and friends of a loving and devoted husband that adored his wife and children. JMOO [/*]
Hi Danette :)
Have you heard anything about the ID on the body found in the river? I thought news was going to be announced today.
beetlebrow
04-21-2008, 08:36 PM
Originally posted by SeattleEddie
In Washington state, all public records are available in full at the clerk's office or courthouse, depending on jurisdiction, except if they have been sealed by court order, which happens rarely. [/*]
Well I guess no one else caught this.....to busy squabbling :lol:
So...Eddie..are ya saying divorce records are availiable to the public ???.......hmmmm......;)
beetlebrow
04-21-2008, 08:38 PM
Originally posted by Shelby1
Oh wow, that's scary! I bet Harlett and Grande are so upset.
I was on way early this morning and it was fine.
I started to open it and then read what happened so I shut it real quick. [/*]
Wow...everyone who signed up....has info at risk. I hope HOH has good security.
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