Week End Thread 4-19 and 4-20

[KatyDid]

Not on the Internet yet, ut the judge has just ruled the court will keep the children from the polygamist compound. Will post link when it is available.

[Details]

Whoo hoo!



So glad to hear it. Maybe they'll get a chance at a life.

[StickyBeak]

Ty Katy, just out of my comprehension. I am thankful the courts concerns are with the children. JMO

[FrankieBones1]

Originally posted by KatyDid
Not on the Internet yet, ut the judge has just ruled the court will keep the children from the polygamist compound. Will post link when it is available. [/*]
I see this unfolding, live on Nancy Grace's show. I'm so happy they are getting to the bottom of this sect and the abuse.

[KatyDid]

The judge also ordered DNA tests be done on all 416 children.

[Details]

As I see it, even in the absolute worst case - Texas folds, the cult gets the kids back, all goes back to where it was - and I don't think this is what will happen - every day the children spend out with some freedom continues to teach them how many lies they have been taught of the outside world, every minute teaches them that there is an alternative, every minute teaches them that if they chose, they could call for help, and it might come. That's something they wouldn't have back behind cult walls.

[KatyDid]

Breaking news banner at top of page here, but no story yet.

http://www.cnn.com/

[Details]

Oh, I can't wait for the DNA in this case. How many of the children will be found to be the child of another child. That will be something very interesting.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by asurvivor
WOO HOO!! Praise the Lord! Of cource this does not mean they will keep them very long but it is a start [/*]

They will have them long enough to complete the DNA tests. That in itself is HUGE, IMO.

I am so THRILLED with this judge's ruling.

She is a hero!!

[KatyDid]

Larry King Live covering the breaking news now.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by FrankieBones1

I see this unfolding, live on Nancy Grace's show. I'm so happy they are getting to the bottom of this sect and the abuse. [/*]

Me too Frankie!!

It has taken over 100 years and finally Texas has the courage to step up and do the right thing for these women and children.

I am lovin' every second of it.

[spydernweb2006]

Its now also on Yahoo news:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080419/ap_on_re_us/polygamist_retreat;_ylt=AjfclwkmGmsHlqSbx6SmN.is0N UE

Hopefully once the DNA is done they can address which child belongs to which Parents and then deal with each family.

JMHO

Hugs,

Spyder

[StickyBeak]

On AOL

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/polygamous-sect-children-ordered-to-stay/n20080418205109990017?ecid=RSS0001

Ty Texas!:patriot:

[wandering]

Originally posted by KatyDid
The judge also ordered DNA tests be done on all 416 children. [/*]And the parents! :D

I don't think this case is going away soon.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by wandering
And the parents! :D

I don't think this case is going away soon. [/*]

:D I don't either wandering.

[Carol25]

I heard some of the women said they would do anything to get their children back. They would leave the compound, take parenting classes, take tests, live in the outside world and send their children to public schools...what ever it took.

What hope this could be for even the mothers!

[VC2]

ok, its no problem taking DNA from the children but how in the world are they going to get paternity tests and maternity tests? Sure many women might agree to it, but does the order insist that every man and woman give their blood/saliva?

Unless each male and female does it will be a mess. No good getting just the moms dna.

I feel very sorry for many of the women. I remember the soft voiced one who asked the reporter if he knew what sacred was, and then went on to say it is heaven on earth and the life they have is heaven on earth. She believed it wholeheartedly. Many if not most grew up in the cult, be it colorado, utah or texas. They never had a chance to learn anything else and while it might not be technical brainwashing it sure is in terms of lifestyle. A child indoctrinated in anything by the people they love will take that as the norm.

Has anyone heard if the DNA order forces all the men to give dna? and all the women?

[VC2]

Originally posted by Swarovski


As I understand it, most, if not all these women have attys. representing them. The proof is in the pudding. Let's see if the remove themselves from the compound first, and see how far they are willing to go. I would love nothing better than to see this women emancipated. What disturbs me at the moment, is they have returned to their compound and the cycle of creation could begin anew. [/*]

swarovski, it takes more than a few weeks to undo years of belief. They have no real choice when any independent thought was stifled, and they believe that contact with the outside world/government means eternal hellfire. They take "abuse" as normal because they know nothing else.

Yuo have to remember the women are victims to. They just dont realize it :( How are they meant to know the life they grew up in, and their parents grew up in is wrong when its taught that its the way to heaven?

I wish Texas would have had each woman evaluated psychologically before sending them away from the children. I don't doubt their love for the kids, just have a HUGE problem with how its expressed. They are completely subservient and with no tv or papers are not going to even see different ways.

It seems to me that of course they returned to the compound. They want their children back but also want to be home, and staying out fo the compound they were still unable to be with their kids. Its human nature to return where you feel safe.

imo

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by Carol25
I heard some of the women said they would do anything to get their children back. They would leave the compound, take parenting classes, take tests, live in the outside world and send their children to public schools...what ever it took.

What hope this could be for even the mothers! [/*]

Hiya Carol :seeya:

I hadn't heard this. It is wonderful news if these women will leave the abuse they have suffered.

[awareness]

Im hoping the Mom's will actually take those steps and hopefully eventually be reunited with the kids. But they have to sincerely do that.

I just hope the judge is careful about the law in these cases... I wouldnt want her rulings to get thrown out on appeal and have them sue the gov't and win money.

Im very glad the kids may have a fighting chance... but this has got to be done carefully for the best outcome for them.

JMO/IMO

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by VC2


swarovski, it takes more than a few weeks to undo years of belief. They have no real choice when any independent thought was stifled, and they believe that contact with the outside world/government means eternal hellfire. They take "abuse" as normal because they know nothing else.

Yuo have to remember the women are victims to. They just dont realize it :( How are they meant to know the life they grew up in, and their parents grew up in is wrong when its taught that its the way to heaven?

I wish Texas would have had each woman evaluated psychologically before sending them away from the children. I don't doubt their love for the kids, just have a HUGE problem with how its expressed. They are completely subservient and with no tv or papers are not going to even see different ways.

It seems to me that of course they returned to the compound. They want their children back but also want to be home, and staying out fo the compound they were still unable to be with their kids. Its human nature to return where you feel safe.

imo [/*]

I recently read a paper written by a psychologist who has worked with some of the women who have left polygamy. He wrote that it takes three years for these women to 'deprogram'. Even after that, they still have some problems, just not as severe.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


Thank God. Hooray for this judge. [/*]

This judge and Texas LE had the courage Utah and Arizona have not been able to muster for over 100 years to protect these women and children.

[walton]

Originally posted by Swarovski


As I understand it, most, if not all these women have attys. representing them. The proof is in the pudding. Let's see if the remove themselves from the compound first, and see how far they are willing to go. I would love nothing better than to see this women emancipated. What disturbs me at the moment, is they have returned to their compound and the cycle of creation could begin anew. [/*]

In the 1953 Raid the men were hauled off. They were given jail sentences. The jail sentences were short and those in Politics were getting so much heat that they let some of these guys out early with the promises of not practicing Polygamy.

They didn't stop. They kept on. Hence here we are today.

I am hoping that whispers of Promises are followed thru with
a Big Texan Brother.

http://extras.sltrib.com/specials/polygamy/raidaccount.asp

[evalles]

Originally posted by maryhaze
even if these women get away from the cult & get their kids back, renounce everything that the old pervs have drummed into their heads, what are they gonna do? i don't think they have any real skills other than housekeeping & having kids. not much of an education either. i feel bad for all the victims of this bunch.:( [/*]

That ranch is worth over $21 million and there are other holdings.
Put the offenders in jail, give the women the property and cash ( the guys won't need it where there going and the victims should be compensated anyway.) These women are victims too. Have an on-site therapist and give them their children back on the condition that they not let these men come back into their lives and that they abandon polygamy. There could be a happy ending, but I don't see it happening as long as CPS is involved.

[wandering]

Originally posted by evalles


That ranch is worth over $21 million and there are other holdings.
Put the offenders in jail, give the women the property and cash ( the guys won't need it where there going and the victims should be compensated anyway.) These women are victims too. Have an on-site therapist and give them their children back on the condition that they not let these men come back into their lives and that they abandon polygamy. There could be a happy ending, but I don't see it happening as long as CPS is involved. [/*]What else would you suggest? CPS is all they've got.

[johnielee333]

Originally posted by KatyDid


Me too Frankie!!

It has taken over 100 years and finally Texas has the courage to step up and do the right thing for these women and children.

I am lovin' every second of it. [/*]

i hope they do something about it in the other states too. they need to break up all of the FLDS cults. they need to save all those children. the women need to be saved too.

lets all say prayer's for the victims. :rose:

[johnielee333]

Originally posted by Sumanadevii
Again, I salute the state of Texas for a job well done! [/*]

:patriot: :beer:

[johnielee333]

Originally posted by Swarovski


A courageous judge too. [/*]

:beer: :rose:

[johnielee333]

Originally posted by jenny_92808
This is great news! some of the things that have really bothered me are:

1) Young girls (13 yr old & up) are given to older men to have sex with, so the children can have children of the middle aged men. This is ILLEGAL AND WRONG, PERIOD!!!

2) The girls/women are only one of the multiple wives of the middle aged man and are in a subservient role, in otherwise a slave to the man and the mans culture of ruling the females in ANY way they choose. This is ILLEGAL AND WRONG, PERIOD!!!

3) The men of this society that enslaves and abuses the children and the woman, DISCAR THE BOYS and boot them out when they become a certain age so that the math adds up to allow them to continue to have multiple wives/children wives/slaves. THIS IS WRONG, PERIOD!!! [/*]

and there is so much more that these sick men are doing to these kids & women. they need to be stopped.

[johnielee333]

Originally posted by VC2
ok, its no problem taking DNA from the children but how in the world are they going to get paternity tests and maternity tests? Sure many women might agree to it, but does the order insist that every man and woman give their blood/saliva?

Unless each male and female does it will be a mess. No good getting just the moms dna.

I feel very sorry for many of the women. I remember the soft voiced one who asked the reporter if he knew what sacred was, and then went on to say it is heaven on earth and the life they have is heaven on earth. She believed it wholeheartedly. Many if not most grew up in the cult, be it colorado, utah or texas. They never had a chance to learn anything else and while it might not be technical brainwashing it sure is in terms of lifestyle. A child indoctrinated in anything by the people they love will take that as the norm.

Has anyone heard if the DNA order forces all the men to give dna? and all the women? [/*]

yep all men has to have dna testing too but what about the men who left the ranch after the raid ? how will they find all of them ? i bet some of them went into hiding.

[LLaFren]

Here we go guys...

Did anyone else catch ET last night? Scary, no voice inflections at all by the "ladies" of the ranch.

[wandering]

They're Stepford wives. I think they've learned to survive, the only way they know how. It will take time...

[walton]

Do you think that "Rosie" is the one who called Texas?

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695271944,00.html

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. — For hours, Flora Jessop would be on the phone with "Sarah" trying to figure out where the little girl was and if she was OK.
The girl first called the anti-polygamy activist on March 30, claiming she was nearly 16, pregnant, in a bad marriage and planned to move to the Fundamentalist LDS Church's YFZ Ranch in Texas.




I don't.

[johnielee333]

believe me when i say they will & do have proof of child rape & other abuse against the children & women. you will see.

there's also evidence of welfare fraud,
false imprisonment, kidnapping & bigamy. these are all crime's that are against the law & they can be charged with. they are breaking the law by doing these things. there is evidence that prove these things. also brainwashing but not sure if that is a real crime they can be charged with or not.

[walton]

There is not a doubt in my mind that those abuses have occured.

There is not a doubt in my mind that they have proof.


I don't believe that Rosie made those calls to Texas.

[Devotion]

Originally posted by walton

There is not a doubt in my mind that those abuses have occurred.

There is not a doubt in my mind that they have proof.

I don't believe that Rosie made those calls to Texas. [/*]

I've read, Numerous abuses, as well as water torture to the babies. The men beating the babies and making them cry, then putting their head under the running water, and continue beating the baby putting it's head under the running water until the child is so exhausted it stops crying...causing the baby/child to always FEAR the father..

Has anyone seen the 12 pictures of the women on the Today Show, NBC, web site, today? they really shocked me.

There was the same blank, robotic look on each of their faces...
no real tears....no nothing...a blank canvas.... JMO

[Devotion]

Originally posted by johnielee333

believe me when i say they will & do have proof of child RAPE & other ABUSE against the children & women. you will see.

there's also evidence of welfare fraud,

false imprisonment, kidnapping & bigamy.

these are all crime's that are against the law & they can be charged with. they are breaking the law by doing these things.
there is evidence that prove these things.
also brainwashing but not sure if that is a real crime they can be charged with or not. [/*]

WHY has this been allowed to continue so many years?

so many Laws being broken.......as well as fraud....

Isn't America all about HUMAN RIGHTS?.....jmo

[giddyupalw]

Originally posted by Devotion


I've read, Numerous abuses, as well as water torture to the babies. The men beating the babies and making them cry, then putting their head under the running water, and continue beating the baby putting it's head under the running water until the child is so exhausted it stops crying...causing the baby/child to always FEAR the father..

Has anyone seen the 12 pictures of the women on the Today Show, NBC, web site, today? they really shocked me.

There was the same blank, robotic look on each of their faces...
no real tears....no nothing...a blank canvas.... JMO [/*]

:eek: I never read this!! My goodness... the more that comes out the worse it gets!!!

[Devotion]

Originally posted by maryhaze
even if these women get away from the cult & get

their kids back, renounce everything that the old PERVS have drummed into their heads, what are they gonna do?
i don't think they have any real skills other than housekeeping & having kids.
not much of an education either.
i feel bad for all the victims of this bunch.:( [/*]

Haven't they ALL been drawing WELFARE?
So let them stay on welfare and live free....
let's give them 4 or 5 years to get educated and adjust.
Their movements, actions and faces tell it all......jmo

[KKKKKKatie]

You all can hammer me if this is a stupid question....

Why the DNA tests? Do they think that the wives fool around outside of thier "marriage"?

What am I missing? lol

[giddyupalw]

Originally posted by KKKKKKatie
You all can hammer me if this is a stupid question....

Why the DNA tests? Do they think that the wives fool around outside of thier "marriage"?

What am I missing? lol [/*]

LOL Ummm Katie... I believe they are trying to find out who the mothers are to what children...and to see if young children are having babies...also to find out who the fathers are to what children...actually now that I have typed this ...it really is very sick...

[KKKKKKatie]

Originally posted by giddyupalw


LOL Ummm Katie... I believe they are trying to find out who the mothers are to what children...and to see if young children are having babies...also to find out who the fathers are to what children...actually now that I have typed this ...it really is very sick... [/*]

{{{hugs}}}

I get them wanting to see if the kids have had kids...guess I just don't get the rest. Unless there was swapping going on :shrug:

[tisamystery]

Originally posted by KKKKKKatie


{{{hugs}}}

I get them wanting to see if the kids have had kids...guess I just don't get the rest. Unless there was swapping going on :shrug: [/*]

I think they need to establish what child belongs to what parent. Without that information it'll be hard to establish what's been going on. What could they do if they know a thirteen yeard old was given to an older man for marriage but don't know who her parents were? Who do you hold accountable then?

[tisamystery]

I have some real concerns about 13-15 year olds giving birth. While they're physiologically capable of pregnancy, their bodies aren't ready to give birth. They're still growing themselves. Are these girls getting proper pre-natal care? Is there anybody in attendance that can handle a difficult delivery? Are these girls subjected to "natural delivery"? Statistically, we know that some births are breach. Some require Cesaerian section. There are all sorts of possible complications. If they're having babies ala pioneer days, remember that women frequently died in child birth. Has it happened at YFZ? It scares me to think what some of these little girls have had to endure.

[walton]

Originally posted by giddyupalw


LOL Ummm Katie... I believe they are trying to find out who the mothers are to what children...and to see if young children are having babies...also to find out who the fathers are to what children...actually now that I have typed this ...it really is very sick... [/*]

This is a true story. A young girl was married to her mothers husband (young girls step father). She had babies with this man which were not only her kids but her own step brothers and sisters)
Her husband was not just those kids father but their step grandfather.

Young girls mother was not only her mother but her sister-in-law and the aunt and grandmother to young girls kids.

It doesn't end there. The man was arrested and the young girl wrote a letter to the Judge stating that she needed to have her father home and that he was a good husband.

The Judge gave him 45 days.

[KKKKKKatie]

Originally posted by tisamystery


I think they need to establish what child belongs to what parent. Without that information it'll be hard to establish what's been going on. What could they do if they know a thirteen yeard old was given to an older man for marriage but don't know who her parents were? Who do you hold accountable then? [/*]

thanks! that makes sense

[KKKKKKatie]

Originally posted by walton


This is a true story. A young girl was married to her mothers husband (young girls step father). She had babies with this man which were not only her kids but her own step brothers and sisters)
Her husband was not just those kids father but their step grandfather.

Young girls mother was not only her mother but her sister-in-law and the aunt and grandmother to young girls kids.

It doesn't end there. The man was arrested and the young girl wrote a letter to the Judge stating that she needed to have her father home and that he was a good husband.

The Judge gave him 45 days. [/*]

such terrible things people do to children :(

I see why the DNA now

[jessie]

Originally posted by walton


This is a true story. A young girl was married to her mothers husband (young girls step father). She had babies with this man which were not only her kids but her own step brothers and sisters)
Her husband was not just those kids father but their step grandfather.

Young girls mother was not only her mother but her sister-in-law and the aunt and grandmother to young girls kids.

It doesn't end there. The man was arrested and the young girl wrote a letter to the Judge stating that she needed to have her father home and that he was a good husband.

The Judge gave him 45 days. [/*] I bet that scenario will be matched out in Texas at the "ranch". I am glad Texas has the courage to take on this mess. I was wondering about housing for the kids. I live in Florida, but I would be willing to take care of some of the kids if that would be a help, but I would not know who to contact or even what to do. Although I am not of the same faith or belief, I would help if I could.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by KKKKKKatie


{{{hugs}}}

I get them wanting to see if the kids have had kids...guess I just don't get the rest. Unless there was swapping going on :shrug: [/*]

Because kids are having kids with their fathers, their cousins, and god knows who else.

It has a lot to do with polygamy being a crime in America. So yes, there is a lot of 'swapping' going on. It is why children do not know who their mother is, or who their siblings are. IIRC, the women get moved from one husband to another depending on their status, etc. If the husband is excommunicated, his wives will be 'given' to another man within the cult. These women may be moved from their current compound location to another.

It's just about as sick as it gets in my book. These women are sexual slaves. They believe if they aren't sweet and good and subserviant to their husbands, they will be dammed for all eternity. The only way they can get to heaven is through their husbands.

I think I have this right. If not I hope someone will correct me.

Katy :seeya:

[Devotion]

Originally posted by KatyDid

Because kids are having kids with their fathers, their

cousins, and god knows who else.

It has a lot to do with polygamy being a crime in America.
So yes, there is a lot of 'swapping' going on.
It is why children DO NOT KNOW who their mother/ father is, or who their siblings are.

IIRC, the women get moved from one husband to another depending on their status, etc.

If the husband is excommunicated, his wives will be 'given' to another man within the cult.

These women may be moved from their current compound location to another.

It's just about as sick as it gets in my book. These women are Sexual Slaves.

They believe if they aren't sweet and good and subservient to their husbands, they will be dammed for all eternity.

The only way they can get to heaven is through their husbands.

I think I have this right. If not I hope someone will correct me.

Katy :seeya: [/*]

From what I've read you're right...adding to the list their GRANDFATHERS....

Are these "fathers" supporting ALL their wives and children?
Where do they have dinner or sleep?
or are they just "sperm donors"?

I understand the TAX PAYERS of the U.S... are supporting them all ? Is that correct?

Katy....Another thing that sickened and shocked me was how the OLD MEN rape the young teenage girls right in front of the people in church as soon as they say their wedding vows.......how warped, sick and damaging is that ????......jmo

[Devotion]

Originally posted by jenny_92808
This is great news! some of the things that have really bothered me are:

1) Young girls (13 yr old & up) are given to older men to have sex with, so the children can have children of the middle aged men.
This is ILLEGAL AND WRONG, PERIOD!!!

2) The girls/women are only one of the multiple wives of the middle aged man and are in a subservient role,

in otherwise a slave to the man and the mans culture of ruling the females in ANY way they choose. This is ILLEGAL AND WRONG, PERIOD!!!

3) The men of this society that enslaves and abuses the children and the woman,
DISCAR THE BOYS and boot them out when they become a certain age so that the math adds up to allow them to continue to have multiple wives/children wives/slaves.
THIS IS WRONG, PERIOD!!! [/*]

IMO.....This has been wrong for generations, it reads as if its,
ALL about:
1. SEX
2. SLAVERY
3. MONEY..........

[Carol25]

I wonder how many "high emergrency meetings" are going on in these compounds as we speak. They surely trying to hide their assets, men may fleeing the cults, and women are having their scripts being rehearsed.
I would imagine Warren has had a lot of visitors lately.

Wonder oif LE and the courts are getting nervous in Hillsdale, Utah. Not to mention the elected officials....

[spydernweb2006]

What I dont understand is WHY did they allow Warren Jeffs to lower the marriage age knowing it was a crime? Even if they went along with it while WJ was free now that that he is jailed for allowing 14 yr olds to marry did they not change the darn law in their Compound/Sect to women 18 or older?

I can kinda understand the ignorance theme for breaking the law even if it IS NOT a legal defence. But once they saw Warren Jeffs be found GUILTY and Jailed didnt they think it could also happen to them unless they put the age back above 18?

What in the world are these people thining? You cannot and willnot break US laws continually and have no recourse.

jmho

Hugs,
Spyder

[Devotion]

Originally posted by spydernweb2006
What I dont understand is WHY did they allow Warren Jeffs to lower the marriage age knowing it was a crime? Even if they went along with it while WJ was free now that that he is jailed for allowing 14 yr olds to marry did they not change the darn law in their Compound/Sect to women 18 or older?

I can kinda understand the ignorance theme for breaking the law even if it IS NOT a legal defence.

But once they saw Warren Jeffs be found GUILTY and Jailed didnt they think it could also happen to them unless they put the age back above 18?

What in the world are these people thinking?

You cannot and willnot break US laws continually and have no recourse.

jmho

Hugs,
Spyder [/*]

Seems these old men make their own Laws while we, the Tax Payers support them....

and have gotten by with it....

while preaching/ brain washing the women and children as to how BAD the U.S. citizens are.....jmo

[tisamystery]

Originally posted by spydernweb2006
What I dont understand is WHY did they allow Warren Jeffs to lower the marriage age knowing it was a crime? [/*]


Jeffs received the command from God himself. These women don't question the men, they certainly don't question God.

[lotty]

Originally posted by walton
There is not a doubt in my mind that those abuses have occured.

There is not a doubt in my mind that they have proof.


I don't believe that Rosie made those calls to Texas. [/*]

ITA! IMO Don't be surprised once DNA testing begins, that some of the children will have no genetic match with a parent in Texas at this time. I also believe Texas is doing a very good job. These are minors, I think publicly they are giving enough information...I am reasonably sure that there is plenty we don't know and would be pretty upset about. I'm sick of hearing "I have seen no signs of abuse." I for one have not seen all 416 of these children, nor should I. Their privacy should be protected. Not all signs of abuse are visible to the eye or camera. IMO/JMO

[duncan]

Originally posted by KatyDid


This judge and Texas LE had the courage Utah and Arizona have not been able to muster for over 100 years to protect these women and children. [/*]


God help these kids.:rose:

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by GollyGeeWhiz
I would think that another reason for the DNA testing is to establish blood connections among the parents. If the members of this sect are as riddled with health problems as it seems they could be due to the inbreeding, as health problems crop up - especially with the children - it will be important to know how the mother and father of each child are related so as to better diagnose and treat the children of those unions.

Yuck. [/*]

Here is an article about one of the afflictions the children of polygamy suffer.

Birth defect is plaguing children in FLDS towns
Fumarase Deficiency afflicts 20, is linked to marriages of close kin

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/1,1249,635182923,00.html

A snippet from the article.

"Dr. Theodore Tarby has treated many of the children at clinics in Arizona under contracts with the state. All are retarded. "In the severe category of mental retardation," the neurologist said, "which means an IQ down there around 25 or so.""


IIRC, many of the women have said they have children who are disabled. They have not said what the disabilities are, but IMO, they are probably related to inbreeding.

Katy

[KatyDid]

Does anybody know the average $$ a person receives monthly in welfare support for one child? I am trying to do the math on how much these people receive in welfare assistance monthly.

If a man has 20 wives and 100 children then the majority of these women and children will be receiving welfare assistance, our tax dollars.

I wonder how much of this funding is actually used for the welfare of the child and mother and how much is turned over to the church by the recipient?

[xray ra]

I hope the Great State of Texas has the *alls to keep up the investigation and prosecution of all the CRIMINALS in this mess. The men and the women. The women have signed applications for welfare and food stamps that were in direct violation of the law. They knowingly lied on the applications. That is a CRIME.

The FBI and IRS also need to investigate fraudulant activities at the property.

"FOLLOW THE MONEY"!!! That's how they finally convicted Al Capone and many other violent criminals.

As to the so called "marraiges", as long as they were not legally married to more than one person, it is not against the law. So I don't know how those charges of polygamy would stick.

DNA testing is going to be crucial. If the father cannot be found by DNA, the child is legally illegitmate and the mother is truly a single mother. However, if the paternal DNA donor is identified, he is LEGALLY required to pay for child support, health care, ect. for ALL children he sired.
Think about all the paternity tests taken everyday to prove that some absentee father is financially responsible for their children.
Garnish their wages, attach their bank accounts, put liens on their property, Whatever it takes.

In the absence of birth certificates, there are some medical tests that can determine the ages of children fairly accurately. In case they say "Well I'm 20 yrs old and my child is 4 yrs. old". When in fact the mother may only be18 and the child 5 yrs of age.

LE has a long, arduous task ahead of them, but I recall that DNA
testing went on for years following 9/11, and they were able to identify hundreds of remains with very small samples.
If the members of this CRIMINAL community know that they will be tracked from now on, they will eventually be found out for what they are.

I have no problem with religion or even Mormons. I do have a problem with groups that take advantage of the welfare sysem.
I have a bigger problem with pedophiles , but that's another discussion.

[evalles]

Originally posted by xray ra
I hope the Great State of Texas has the *alls to keep up the investigation and prosecution of all the CRIMINALS in this mess. The men and the women. The women have signed applications for welfare and food stamps that were in direct violation of the law. They knowingly lied on the applications. That is a CRIME.

The FBI and IRS also need to investigate fraudulant activities at the property.

"FOLLOW THE MONEY"!!! That's how they finally convicted Al Capone and many other violent criminals.

As to the so called "marraiges", as long as they were not legally married to more than one person, it is not against the law. So I don't know how those charges of polygamy would stick.

DNA testing is going to be crucial. If the father cannot be found by DNA, the child is legally illegitmate and the mother is truly a single mother. However, if the paternal DNA donor is identified, he is LEGALLY required to pay for child support, health care, ect. for ALL children he sired.
Think about all the paternity tests taken everyday to prove that some absentee father is financially responsible for their children.
Garnish their wages, attach their bank accounts, put liens on their property, Whatever it takes.

In the absence of birth certificates, there are some medical tests that can determine the ages of children fairly accurately. In case they say "Well I'm 20 yrs old and my child is 4 yrs. old". When in fact the mother may only be18 and the child 5 yrs of age.

LE has a long, arduous task ahead of them, but I recall that DNA
testing went on for years following 9/11, and they were able to identify hundreds of remains with very small samples.
If the members of this CRIMINAL community know that they will be tracked from now on, they will eventually be found out for what they are.

I have no problem with religion or even Mormons. I do have a problem with groups that take advantage of the welfare sysem.
I have a bigger problem with pedophiles , but that's another discussion. [/*]

If you follow the money, it will lead you to the state govt who gets huge incentives for every child in foster care.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by evalles


If you follow the money, it will lead you to the state govt who gets huge incentives for every child in foster care. [/*]

Better the money should go to an agency who will help these children than to men who have their illegal wives file for welfare assistance fraudulently. Then they give their ill gotten funds to the cult that uses the money to create companies that receive multi-million dollar contracts from the governments. I doubt Texas is profiting as much as they have paid out.

The FBI is already involved in an investigation of this cult and I'm sure the IRS is not far behind.

[xray ra]

Originally posted by evalles


If you follow the money, it will lead you to the state govt who gets huge incentives for every child in foster care. [/*]

I have read some of your posts, and my heart goes out to you. You have been thru he!!.
But please have the common sense to see that this particular situation is so different from yours as being compared with apples and ....I don't know "computers".
I hope you prevail in the end with the terrible consequences of your teenager's false allegations. She was only a kid.
If you think that Texas CPS is doing this for the $$, you might try looking at it from the side of the truly abused women and children in this community. Just as a mental exercise to see if you can see the other side of the situation.
Best wishes, and God bless.

[walton]

Originally posted by KatyDid
Does anybody know the average $$ a person receives monthly in welfare support for one child? I am trying to do the math on how much these people receive in welfare assistance monthly.

If a man has 20 wives and 100 children then the majority of these women and children will be receiving welfare assistance, our tax dollars.

I wonder how much of this funding is actually used for the welfare of the child and mother and how much is turned over to the church by the recipient? [/*]

Get your adding machine out. You'll need to do some major punching.
1. Food stamps
2. Housing assistance
3. Medical assistance
4. Eyeware
5. Dental assistance
6. Fuel assistance

I am sure there are more.

google Tom Green.

[evalles]

Originally posted by xray ra


I have read some of your posts, and my heart goes out to you. You have been thru he!!.
But please have the common sense to see that this particular situation is so different from yours as being compared with apples and ....I don't know "computers".
I hope you prevail in the end with the terrible consequences of your teenager's false allegations. She was only a kid.
If you think that Texas CPS is doing this for the $$, you might try looking at it from the side of the truly abused women and children in this community. Just as a mental exercise to see if you can see the other side of the situation.
Best wishes, and God bless. [/*]

My teenager stretched/ exaggerated the truth. The CPS worker was the one that lied in her reports.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think this is an ideal situation for these children. Last year, I would have probably been in total agreement. I know some of these children, at least some of the teens have likely been abused. However, I think there was a better way of handling this, that would have been less traumatic for the kids. I think the mother's are being excessively criminalized and I think w/ the proper help this could actually help both the mother's and the kids alike. I don't give a rat' s xxx about the men that have these grossly inflated ego's. I feel that the overall sentiment is anti- family and that frightens me.
I see the other side of the situation and agree that the abusers should be punished. I believe these mother's love their children and that every effort and opportunity should be offered to them in order to reunite them with their children. I see that these woment that shun the outside world have opened their doors out of desperation to be with their children.
I also think these boards get boring if no one offers any opposing views.

[juliekan]

EV, you said you know some of these children?

[evalles]

Originally posted by juliekan
EV, you said you know some of these children? [/*]

No, I'm sorry, my punctuation is sloppy. I meant that I know some of these kids were likely abused. I'm not in TX, nor do I know any polygomists.

[juliekan]

Originally posted by Carol25
I heard some of the women said they would do anything to get their children back. They would leave the compound, take parenting classes, take tests, live in the outside world and send their children to public schools...what ever it took.

What hope this could be for even the mothers! [/*]
On TV last night, the women said they would do anything, then said they would be willing to "compromise." With the State of Texas? Compromise on polygamy, underage marriage, child rape, with LE? All are illegal. No wiggle room if proven.
JMO

[juliekan]

Good Morning :patriot: Here's a new link
www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr/20/sarah-real-or-imagined
The phone calls from Sarah started several days prior to the April 3rd raid. They were made to a Womens Shelter. There is no notation of having sex with her father or being locked downstairs in a basement in the transcript supplied.
The phone calls from Rozita Swinton to Flora Jessop, per her convo on AC 360 April 18, began 2 weeks prior (April 4). The caller complained of having to have sex with her father and being locked downstairs.
Points having been made, I would also like to add that cell phones can be tracked. Voice prints can be made. And most of all when will a copy-cat start up...after major media attention the DAY BEFORE.

How much does the media like to push their side of a story? Check out the site that my signature line comes from, and notice how the reporter cuts off the one logical person that they interview for this story.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=nda_OSWeyn8

[giddyupalw]

Originally posted by grammybear
I agree this is going to be a long process but I think the children's lives are worth it. This has gone on for so long and it has caused many to turn a blind eye to the whole polygamist issue. But as a group of people who live in the real world we are tired of seeing these children and women abused. It would be foolish of Texas to just let the children go back to this enviroment. This is all about human rights and parents taking responsibility for their actions when it comes to these children. I cannot even imagine being one of these mothers who allow their male counterpart s to abuse and use these children.

When life was much simpler a young girl having a baby at a young agewas not near the problem it is now. People died so much younger, but I do not believe these teenagers are anywhere near ready to have and take care of a baby.

There have been so many rights taken away from these children. From what I have learned this group does not allow children to be children. That is so important for children to grow up being a child to then turn into responsible adults. These children have been robbed of so much in their short lives. With as far as our society has come with the human rights the FLDS has moved back in time instead of forward.

Somebody has got to step up to the plate and do what is right for these children forget the issues of the parents, they made their choices and now the court system needs to move forward.

jmoo [/*]

:beer: Could not have said it better!!!

[sachae]

I am just wondering on T.V. anyway, I never saw any elderly women, except the lady who was making the bread in the kitchen, or is it possible that the women that we saw were the women that were chosen to be on T.V. as they had been well scripted, I do agree that being a nurse myself, the women that we saw on T.V. had been deprogrammed of emotions, because when I am working in the emergency room in the hospital, I see many women who come in and they are battered women, and they , most of them anyway show no emotions, I know for most of you it is very hard to understand, but that is the only way that they can survive through the constant abusiveness, because they are striped of any self confidence, and also feelings, and that is why there are very few that press charges, because they live in constant fear that if someone knows what really is going on, they will have no means for a roof over their head, food for their children etc... It is very sad to see these women with no self esteem, and over a period of time they also learn to suppress any feelings, so they become walking robots, because if you do not feel anything, you never get hurt, it becomes a 2nd nature for them.

[juliekan]

Sachae, I think you are correct. In this case I think they are also very afraid when asked a question they have not been scripted for or must lie. Although I did read something about them feeling it was ok "lying for the Lord", I noticed when a younger woman was asked about older men marrying underage girls, she balked, and then the oldest looking woman denied it. I bet that was what you saw too.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by walton


Get your adding machine out. You'll need to do some major punching.
1. Food stamps
2. Housing assistance
3. Medical assistance
4. Eyeware
5. Dental assistance
6. Fuel assistance

I am sure there are more.

google Tom Green. [/*]

Thanks Walton :seeya:

Here is an article with an interview of one of his wives, well now ex-wife. She was 14 when he married her. She was given to him when she was 12 and was groomed by him to become one of his wives. She sought protection from the state of Utah, but was returned to Green. :no: :no:

http://blogs.sltrib.com/plurallife/2007/08/tom-green-parole-hearing.htm

[walton]

http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?id=3066&option=com_content&task=view

Green also released a statement Tuesday that was distributed by prison officials, saying his incarceration had been "beneficial" and that he'd learned a lot from life-skills classes and therapy.

"I believe that the officers and staff do a good job taking care of inmates, especially considering the challenges they're faced with here," Green's statement said. "I'm very grateful to the people of the state of Utah for all they have done to help prepare myself, and other inmates, to not reoffend and to function appropriately in society."

Green was convicted in 2001 and 2002 of bigamy, criminal nonsupport and child rape for fathering a child with Kunz Green, his stepdaughter, when she was 13.

Green plans to live in one unit of a "quadplex" in Springville with Kunz Green. The other women live in the adjoining units. Twenty of his 30 or so children still live with their mothers.

[sachae]

Originally posted by juliekan
Sachae, I think you are correct. In this case I think they are also very afraid when asked a question they have not been scripted for or must lie. Although I did read something about them feeling it was ok "lying for the Lord", I noticed when a younger woman was asked about older men marrying underage girls, she balked, and then the oldest looking woman denied it. I bet that was what you saw too. [/*]

Yes I did, and you will notice that there are a few young ones, but there are some older ones also, that was for the public to see that there are different ages, but most importantly, for the older ones to take over if the young ones were asked a question where there were not scripted on, for the older ones now this is there way of living now, as they have been subjected to this way for such a very long time.
Also I would like to point out, that there were some behind the ladies in the front line that were speaking, that never spoke, why because they were told not to, but to listen and learn, I would have to assume. Those women and young ladies in the back if you look at them closely, they show no emotion on their face, just a blank look, and that is what I mean when I said that they have been striped of their emotions, it is very sad, and I know a lot of people are saying to themselves, well they should just leave and go to a shelter, if we can not get women who are abused to go to one, how are these women going to go to one, when they in their minds have food, clothes, and a roof over their head, and most importantly fellow companionship of the other ladies that they have come to love like family, I really do not have any answers on how to resolve these issues, except to say, as women of this world regardless where we live, I am from Ontario
but I would be more than willing to get some care packages together with my fellow nurses and Dr's here in Ontario, and send them to the shelters, if anyone could give me the information, I know we can not have access to the exact address of the shelter for safety reasons, but an address where it can be sent, where we know that these packages are going to the victims and their children, those kids have not had a proper childhood, so I am thinking that I will put together a campaign for reading materials for the children, my sister is a grade school teacher, and I am going to ask her to put something together with all the teachers here in Ontario to collect colouring books and crayons.

[walton]

Originally posted by juliekan
Good Morning :patriot: Here's a new link
www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr/20/sarah-real-or-imagined
The phone calls from Sarah started several days prior to the April 3rd raid. They were made to a Womens Shelter. There is no notation of having sex with her father or being locked downstairs in a basement in the transcript supplied.
The phone calls from Rozita Swinton to Flora Jessop, per her convo on AC 360 April 18, began 2 weeks prior (April 4). The caller complained of having to have sex with her father and being locked downstairs.
Points having been made, I would also like to add that cell phones can be tracked. Voice prints can be made. And most of all when will a copy-cat start up...after major media attention the DAY BEFORE.

How much does the media like to push their side of a story? Check out the site that my signature line comes from, and notice how the reporter cuts off the one logical person that they interview for this story.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=nda_OSWeyn8 [/*]

I think peoplle are getting the two sets of phone calls mixed up.

I still don't believe that "Rosie" made those phone calls to the Texas authorities.

I think Rosie made the phone calls to Flora.


jmo

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by walton


I think peoplle are getting the two sets of phone calls mixed up.

I still don't believe that "Rosie" made those phone calls to the Texas authorities.

I think Rosie made the phone calls to Flora.


jmo [/*]

Was Flora the person who reported to LE?

IMO, the calls contained a of details this woman in Colorado Springs wouldn't have known. I also wonder why LE sealed the documents related to this woman's calls. She is 33, so it wouldn't be to protect her. I would really like to know what LE thinks is so sensitive to seal the docs.

BRB~breakfast is calling :seeya:

[walton]

Flora Jessop.

On the AC story Flora talked about how many times "Rosie" called her. This was the show that AC had JF on.

There was so much jumping around that it was hard to make sense of it all.

[giddyupalw]

Originally posted by walton
Flora Jessop.

On the AC story Flora talked about how many times "Rosie" called her. This was the show that AC had JF on.

There was so much jumping around that it was hard to make sense of it all. [/*]

Please excuse me but who is Rosie??

[juliekan]

Walton, in reference to the LDS specialist W.John Walsh: he's part of a site at www.lightplanet.com/mormons/
Rated as "Deseret's Best LDS Site." woo hoo what a surprise:D

From his testimony at the trial (per hearing logs) he seemed somewhat vague and/or evasive. He does testify to having extensive credentials.

-Says he's a specialist in LDS, says the FLDS is mostly a traditional LDS group
-he couldn't answer how accurate bishop's records were, said to rely on oral accounts (he's covering someone's ****)
-denies knowing any reason that there are less boys at the ranch than girls except that the boys sometimes work in the outside community :rolleyes:
-he is unconcerned with testing the children for genetic markers
-states that if the kids are not around men, the formal belief system is not enforced :confused:

[walton]

Religious scholar John Walsh also addressed a particularly damning piece of evidence: At least one bed found inside a temple that was allegedly used to consummate such marriages immediately after the ceremony.

"Historically, the only use of a bed in a temple is for temple worship itself," said Walsh, who said he has studied the FLDS practices for 18 years. "The worship lasts a couple of hours, so all the temples will have a place where someone can lie down."

But, he said, "To my knowledge, there has never been any sexual activity in a Mormon temple."

Walsh said he also studies the mainstream Mormon church, which renounced polygamy a century ago and has no ties to the FLDS. He said without the polygamy aspect, the FLDS would resemble the Baptist or Catholic religions.

I found this when I googled walsh temple beds. When I try to give the link it brings up another story. But I'll give ya what I got.

http://www.cnn.co.hu/2008/CRIME/04/18/polygamy.custody/index.html

http://www.google.com/search?q=walsh+temple+beds&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7RNWE

[juliekan]

So how big is this bed and do they takes turns with their naps?:rolleyes:

[walton]

Originally posted by juliekan
So how big is this bed and do they takes turns with their naps?:rolleyes: [/*]

I've been to a lot of different Churches and I mean no disrespect to any- but some of those sermons I have heard have made me nod off. Again no disrespect to anyone. But I've never been to a one that has offered me a bed. Somewhat defeats the purpose doesn't it?

If Doran said he saw what he saw. He saw it. IMO those people in Texas are straight forward. No hemming and no hawing.

[walton]

Originally posted by giddyupalw


Please excuse me but who is Rosie?? [/*]

giddyup I started a new thread concerning the missing girl named Sara and the woman named Rosie.

[juliekan]

Originally posted by walton


I've been to a lot of different Churches and I mean no disrespect to any- but some of those sermons I have heard have made me nod off. Again no disrespect to anyone. But I've never been to a one that has offered me a bed. Somewhat defeats the purpose doesn't it?

If Doran said he saw what he saw. He saw it. IMO those people in Texas are straight forward. No hemming and no hawing. [/*]
I guess my best response to this is AMEN sister!

[walton]

Originally posted by juliekan

I guess my best response to this is AMEN sister! [/*]

Did you follow the Warren Jeffs trial? I had images of Wally singing this in court. There was a big ta do about what people meant by the word Amen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn6w255CGkk

Still makes me smile.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by giddyupalw


Please excuse me but who is Rosie?? [/*]

Rosie is the 33 y/o lady in Colorado Springs, CO who has some mental illness issues. I think they traced calls from her to Flora Jessup's number for the abuse hotline. Rosie has been arrested before for making false reports to the police in Colorado Springs. In fact, I think she might have been on probation for a previous offense when she made the calls to Flora.

:seeya:

[walton]

Originally posted by walton
Religious scholar John Walsh also addressed a particularly damning piece of evidence: At least one bed found inside a temple that was allegedly used to consummate such marriages immediately after the ceremony.

"Historically, the only use of a bed in a temple is for temple worship itself," said Walsh, who said he has studied the FLDS practices for 18 years. "The worship lasts a couple of hours, so all the temples will have a place where someone can lie down."

But, he said, "To my knowledge, there has never been any sexual activity in a Mormon temple."

Walsh said he also studies the mainstream Mormon church, which renounced polygamy a century ago and has no ties to the FLDS. He said without the polygamy aspect, the FLDS would resemble the Baptist or Catholic religions.

I found this when I googled walsh temple beds. When I try to give the link it brings up another story. But I'll give ya what I got.

http://www.cnn.co.hu/2008/CRIME/04/18/polygamy.custody/index.html

http://www.google.com/search?q=walsh+temple+beds&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7RNWE [/*]

http://blogs.sltrib.com/plurallife/ Here is a little update on the temple bed and Walsh

MORMON SCHOLAR ON BED IN TEMPLE: HEALTH ROOM USES

Correction of Quote Requested

SAN ANGELO, TEXAS | 19 April 2008 | Dr. John Walsh would like to correct an error in an AP quote attributed to him about a bed in the FLDS temple.

Dr. Walsh's corrected quote: In 178 years of Mormon history, none of the various branches of Mormonism, including the FLDS, have ever been known to have sexual relations inside a temple. As to why a bed might be in the temple, he said in some Mormon temples, a bed has been used for hospital clinical purposes. People often come to the temple fasting, and temple
rituals last several hours. With hundreds of people participating in such activities, temple operators are prepared for events when those attending the temple fall ill or need medical attention.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by walton


Get your adding machine out. You'll need to do some major punching.
1. Food stamps
2. Housing assistance
3. Medical assistance
4. Eyeware
5. Dental assistance
6. Fuel assistance

I am sure there are more.

google Tom Green. [/*]

It just hit me...how ironic...this latest incident with polygamy happened in Tom Green County in Texas. Isn't the court house in Tom Green County?

[walton]

yup.

[juliekan]

Originally posted by walton


http://blogs.sltrib.com/plurallife/ Here is a little update on the temple bed and Walsh

MORMON SCHOLAR ON BED IN TEMPLE: HEALTH ROOM USES

Correction of Quote Requested

SAN ANGELO, TEXAS | 19 April 2008 | Dr. John Walsh would like to correct an error in an AP quote attributed to him about a bed in the FLDS temple.

Dr. Walsh's corrected quote: In 178 years of Mormon history, none of the various branches of Mormonism, including the FLDS, have ever been known to have sexual relations inside a temple. As to why a bed might be in the temple, he said in some Mormon temples, a bed has been used for hospital clinical purposes. People often come to the temple fasting, and temple
rituals last several hours. With hundreds of people participating in such activities, temple operators are prepared for events when those attending the temple fall ill or need medical attention. [/*]
Once again, only ONE bed for all the people that might "fall out" from fasting? Sounds fishy to me.

[walton]

Originally posted by juliekan

Once again, only ONE bed for all the people that might "fall out" from fasting? Sounds fishy to me. [/*]

I see the board is going to close for a bit.

I tried looking for a retraction or a correction some place any place but couldn't find anything.

The beds at the YFZ were found on 3rd floor. Long ways to haul someone who might be sick or feel faint. jmo

I'll stop back later.:seeya:

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by juliekan

Once again, only ONE bed for all the people that might "fall out" from fasting? Sounds fishy to me. [/*]

:D Looks like we are back in business. The board is open.

Good point about the bed juliekan~

One bed for all those people, yep something doesn't sound right. And when Walsh says the services last two hours, that doesn't make sense either. I mean, who can't withstand two hours of listen to the religious beliefs they so adamantly adhere to?

:shrug:

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by walton


I see the board is going to close for a bit.

I tried looking for a retraction or a correction some place any place but couldn't find anything.

The beds at the YFZ were found on 3rd floor. Long ways to haul someone who might be sick or feel faint. jmo

I'll stop back later.:seeya: [/*]

Is there more than one bed? I am confused about that.

Excellent point about being on the third floor. That's a long way to carry somebody that has fallen out from fasting.

[walton]

Originally posted by KatyDid


Is there more than one bed? I am confused about that.

Excellent point about being on the third floor. That's a long way to carry somebody that has fallen out from fasting. [/*]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695269096,00.html

A Texas Ranger serving a search warrant at a polygamist ranch says there are beds inside the FLDS Church's only temple.
And those beds, according to newly relased documents that support the reasons for a police raid on the compound owned by the sect, are in a part of the temple where "males over the age of 17 engage in sexual activity" with underage girls.

and

Inside the large limestone temple, ranger Leslie Brooks Long said she observed several locked safes, locked desk drawers, locked vaults, multiple computers and beds.

"On one of the beds within the temple, (I) observed that the bed linens were disturbed as if the bed had been used," she wrote. The officer said she also noticed a strand of hair believed to come from the head of a female, the court document states.

[walton]

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/21210/flds-86

The first witness on their behalf, William John Walsh, who described himself as a theological expert, said the church did not hold as part of its written theology that under-age girls should marry older men. The church’s prophets, Mr. Walsh told the court, decide when a couple is ready, but the liturgy itself takes no position. The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or F.L.D.S., broke off from the mainstream Mormon Church when the Mormons disavowed polygamy more than a century ago.





I wish they had the shaking head icon.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by walton


http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695269096,00.html

A Texas Ranger serving a search warrant at a polygamist ranch says there are beds inside the FLDS Church's only temple.
And those beds, according to newly relased documents that support the reasons for a police raid on the compound owned by the sect, are in a part of the temple where "males over the age of 17 engage in sexual activity" with underage girls.

and

Inside the large limestone temple, ranger Leslie Brooks Long said she observed several locked safes, locked desk drawers, locked vaults, multiple computers and beds.

"On one of the beds within the temple, (I) observed that the bed linens were disturbed as if the bed had been used," she wrote. The officer said she also noticed a strand of hair believed to come from the head of a female, the court document states. [/*]

OMG!!! That is so sick. I'm sure the linens were collected and will be tested for fluids.

[KatyDid]

Originally posted by walton
http://www.religionnewsblog.com/21210/flds-86

The first witness on their behalf, William John Walsh, who described himself as a theological expert, said the church did not hold as part of its written theology that under-age girls should marry older men. The church’s prophets, Mr. Walsh told the court, decide when a couple is ready, but the liturgy itself takes no position. The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or F.L.D.S., broke off from the mainstream Mormon Church when the Mormons disavowed polygamy more than a century ago.





I wish they had the shaking head icon. [/*]

I wonder if he is on the payroll for Jeffs?

[ccnsd]

Randy has followed these people from the beginning, when YFZ came to town...He has alot of info. Here is some of names in the legal notices filed.
http://www.myeldorado.net/Pages/LegalNotices.html

Also, not sure if this has been posted.
http://web.sccn2.net/FLDS/index.htm

[wandering]

Originally posted by ccnsd
Randy has followed these people from the beginning, when YFZ came to town...He has alot of info. Here is some of names in the legal notices filed.
http://www.myeldorado.net/Pages/LegalNotices.html

Also, not sure if this has been posted.
http://web.sccn2.net/FLDS/index.htm [/*]Great links. Thank you!