April 18, April 19

[Marcia3]

Good morning everybody!

For those of you who just had the earthquake, give us a shout out and let us know you're okay!

What's on the docket for today's discussion? Did we wear out the "other father" speculations sufficiently yesterday?

:D

[SavannahStar]

Mornin' Marcia! Thank you for starting our daily thread!

I'm in the middle of a bunch of stuff here today but will be back!

:seeya:

[Marcia3]

Morning, SS! Hopefully I'll be here when you get back!

:seeya:

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by Marcia3
Good morning everybody!

For those of you who just had the earthquake, give us a shout out and let us know you're okay!

What's on the docket for today's discussion? Did we wear out the "other father" speculations sufficiently yesterday?

:D [/*]

I don't know if we wore out that discussion or the discussion wore US out. My mind is still in a flux contemplating how many more cans of worms could be opened if Maria was pregnant by some guy other than Cesar.

I don't recall specifically where I read this - it may have been in the comments section of the other blog - but someone was speculating that the fire pit/burial pit had somewhat of a look of a shrine when it was first seen.

Did anyone else read that? I looked back at some of the photos & saw one of the undisturbed ground with all the cinder blocks around it & the only thing that caught my eye was that the blocks were placed in a rectangular fashion.

Having outdoor fire pits is not common in this area, so I can't recall seeing others & how they were arranged, but my thinking is that if I did have a large outdoor fire pit, it would make more sense to me to arrange cinder blocks in a circular fashion than a square or rectangular one.

What do y'all think?

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by Mimi428


I don't know if we wore out that discussion or the discussion wore US out. My mind is still in a flux contemplating how many more cans of worms could be opened if Maria was pregnant by some guy other than Cesar.

I don't recall specifically where I read this - it may have been in the comments section of the other blog - but someone was speculating that the fire pit/burial pit had somewhat of a look of a shrine when it was first seen.

Did anyone else read that? I looked back at some of the photos & saw one of the undisturbed ground with all the cinder blocks around it & the only thing that caught my eye was that the blocks were placed in a rectangular fashion.

Having outdoor fire pits is not common in this area, so I can't recall seeing others & how they were arranged, but my thinking is that if I did have a large outdoor fire pit, it would make more sense to me to arrange cinder blocks in a circular fashion than a square or rectangular one.

What do y'all think? [/*]

Morning, Mimi! I hear ya, that discussion just about did me in yesterday since it started a whole bunch of chain reaction thoughts for me...

I don't live in an area where fire pits are common. Most of the ones I see are the pits you buy at a hardware store and just set it up on your patio or deck. In fact, I would venture to say that my neighborhood association doesn't allow a fire pit such as the one CAL built to be set up in our neighborhood.

I'm not sure about the shrine perspective, but if a circular construction is more commonplace, then a rectangular setup would almost seem to imitate a grave. Could that be considered close to a shrine?

Very good question, though, and one that I remember coming up a while ago but it was not answered IRRC.

[Squawk Box]

No shrine and Cesar is the father. I mean it was his DNA. He was never the father.

JMO

Morning:seeya:

[strick10]

Originally posted by Marcia3
Good morning everybody!

For those of you who just had the earthquake, give us a shout out and let us know you're okay!

What's on the docket for today's discussion? Did we wear out the "other father" speculations sufficiently yesterday?

:D [/*]

Morning. This board never wears out discussing speculations.....:D

[strick10]

Originally posted by Squawk Box
No shrine and Cesar is the father. I mean it was his DNA. He was never the father.

JMO

Morning:seeya: [/*]

You've lost me Squawk. Okay I can see the fire pit not looking like a shrine. Someone probably is trying to make the firepit look almost respectful in their mind. We don't know if the baby does belong to CAL or not as we haven't heard anything legit on this. "I mean it was his DNA" I don't get this part of your post.

[crymeariver2006]

As I recall, there was some psychologist type on one of the shows (Greta, Nancy Grace....) who said that the pit looked like a shrine.

I also made the comment early on, in one of my theories (pre rug, of course) that I felt that Cesar was in love with Maria and to me, that explained the burial right under Christina's nose (so to speak), in the backyard of his home, and that it appeared "darn near shrine like".

There are/were too many places Cesar could have placed the body and the chances are great that Maria would never have been found.

IMO, it was almost like he wanted her found. If that makes any sense.

All JMO

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by Squawk Box
No shrine and Cesar is the father. I mean it was his DNA. He was never the father.

JMO

Morning:seeya: [/*]

What was his DNA? Have the forensics or paternity test been completed and posted somewhere?

:shrug:

[strick10]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006
As I recall, there was some psychologist type on one of the shows (Greta, Nancy Grace....) who said that the pit looked like a shrine.

I also made the comment early on, in one of my theories (pre rug, of course) that I felt that Cesar was in love with Maria and to me, that explained the burial right under Christina's nose (so to speak), in the backyard of his home, and that it appeared "darn near shrine like".

There are/were too many places Cesar could have placed the body and the chances are great that Maria would never have been found.

IMO, it was almost like he wanted her found. If that makes any sense.

All JMO [/*]

I've never looked at the fire pit quite that way. I figured the blocks were placed around the pit to help keep the fire isolated but the way the blocks were placed on top of the ground seemed like kind of a weird way to set them. I figured you'd have to have at least part of the blocks buried in the ground for the containment to be fully effective. I noticed that the block didn't have that much soot on them for them to have been in place for all the bon fires they had.

[SavannahStar]

Shrine.......nah.....

Especially if "one of those psychologist types" on a TH show suggested it. I detest those people.....pet peeve of mine.

:read:

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by SavannahStar
Shrine.......nah.....

Especially if "one of those psychologist types" on a TH show suggested it. I detest those people.....pet peeve of mine.

:read: [/*]

LOL, you and I agree on that one! "Drive-by diagnosis."

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by strick10


Morning. This board never wears out discussing speculations.....:D [/*]

I suspect you're right about that! We do know how to chew on a topic, don't we?

:biggrin:

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006
As I recall, there was some psychologist type on one of the shows (Greta, Nancy Grace....) who said that the pit looked like a shrine.

I also made the comment early on, in one of my theories (pre rug, of course) that I felt that Cesar was in love with Maria and to me, that explained the burial right under Christina's nose (so to speak), in the backyard of his home, and that it appeared "darn near shrine like".

There are/were too many places Cesar could have placed the body and the chances are great that Maria would never have been found.

IMO, it was almost like he wanted her found. If that makes any sense.

All JMO [/*]

I know I'm not alone with this question, but I have always wondered why CAL didn't just take Maria's body to the ocean? It just seems so much "cleaner" than how he chose to handle things.

JMO

[Mitzy2]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006
As I recall, there was some psychologist type on one of the shows (Greta, Nancy Grace....) who said that the pit looked like a shrine.

I also made the comment early on, in one of my theories (pre rug, of course) that I felt that Cesar was in love with Maria and to me, that explained the burial right under Christina's nose (so to speak), in the backyard of his home, and that it appeared "darn near shrine like".

There are/were too many places Cesar could have placed the body and the chances are great that Maria would never have been found.

IMO, it was almost like he wanted her found. If that makes any sense.

All JMO [/*] One of my neighbors dug a "firepit" in their backyard and it was indeed round. Yes, why bury Maria in their backyard. There are numerous "swamp land" acres in the Camp Lejuene area so I'am told. Could CL have been so stupid as to think at some point after Maria fell off the face of the earth, he would not be looked at by LE as the prime suspect? And when LE did start focusing on him, why not move the body just like he moved Maria's car ?? So many questions ???:shrug:

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by strick10


You've lost me Squawk. Okay I can see the fire pit not looking like a shrine. Someone probably is trying to make the firepit look almost respectful in their mind. We don't know if the baby does belong to CAL or not as we haven't heard anything legit on this. "I mean it was his DNA" I don't get this part of your post. [/*]

It is my opinion. There is no proof Cesar is not the father at this time either. I'm sticking to the original story. I am saying it was Cesar's DNA.

The shrine just came up out of the blue for speculation. I don't believe Cesar made a shrine.

JMO

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


What was his DNA? Have the forensics or paternity test been completed and posted somewhere?

:shrug: [/*]

It will be Cesar's DNA. JMO

[martha]

Originally posted by Squawk Box
No shrine and Cesar is the father. I mean it was his DNA. He was never the father.

JMO

Morning:seeya: [/*] I have not been here long but what did you mean by it was his dna and he was never the father? I don;t understand that. good morning everyone hope you will all have a good day. got a lot of stuff i got to do so i will be in and out :rose:

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by martha
I have not been here long but what did you mean by it was his dna and he was never the father? I don;t understand that. good morning everyone hope you will all have a good day. got a lot of stuff i got to do so i will be in and out :rose: [/*]

Good morning, martha! So good to "see" you again.

Hope your day is a good one...:)

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by martha
I have not been here long but what did you mean by it was his dna and he was never the father? I don;t understand that. good morning everyone hope you will all have a good day. got a lot of stuff i got to do so i will be in and out :rose: [/*]

A father does not kill his child. It was his DNA but I will never refer to him as the "father".

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006
As I recall, there was some psychologist type on one of the shows (Greta, Nancy Grace....) who said that the pit looked like a shrine.

I also made the comment early on, in one of my theories (pre rug, of course) that I felt that Cesar was in love with Maria and to me, that explained the burial right under Christina's nose (so to speak), in the backyard of his home, and that it appeared "darn near shrine like".

There are/were too many places Cesar could have placed the body and the chances are great that Maria would never have been found.

IMO, it was almost like he wanted her found. If that makes any sense.

All JMO [/*]

Thanks for the info about where the 'shrine' comment may have originated. I don't watch Nancy, whatever happens or is said on her show I end up finding out about through other sources.

One of the things I considered regarding why Cesar did not dispose of the body was not so much along the lines that he wanted her found - but that he wanted to know with certainty (for whatever reasons of his own) where she was.

Once I started pondering about the 'shrine' aspect, it brought to my mind the Mexican cultural tradition of Dia de los Muertos - Day of the Dead, which is on November 1st. I know many people of Mexican heritage who do NOT take part in the traditional celebrations of Dia de los Muertos, as is practiced in Mexico. But I also know many more who faithfully take care of the gravesites of their loved ones in ways that are not typical for those not of that culture.

Perfect example for me is seen at Ft. Sam Houston National Cemetery, in San Antonio. I take my mother several times a year to visit my stepfather's grave & while we are there we visit the gravesites of others in the family who are there. There is a woman with a Hispanic surname buried one row back from my stepfather & her family always has her gravesite elaborately decorated. It doesn't seem like it would take too much until you realize that EVERY gravesite is cleaned up & the ground cleared completely once a month, at the very least. Yet her grave - & there are plenty others like it - is thoroughly embellished with seasonal decorations, plenty of flowers & all sorts of other things.

Anyway, it did get me to wondering what Cesar's thinking might be regarding where Maria was buried. Another mystery to ponder.

JMO

[Squawk Box]

I'm thinking the bodies were buried in his back yard because of a lack of time to take them somewhere else.

I think it is possible he felt they would burn to ashes so why move them?

I think he felt it would be to dangerous to move them from his back yard to someplace else under the nose of Christina and the chance he may be seen by someone else.

His solution in my opinion was to make ashes out of them.

MOO

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by Squawk Box
I'm thinking the bodies were buried in his back yard because of a lack of time to take them somewhere else.

I think it is possible he felt they would burn to ashes so why move them?

I think he felt it would be to dangerous to move them from his back yard to someplace else under the nose of Christina and the chance he may be seen by someone else.

His solution in my opinion was to make ashes out of them.

MOO [/*]

Makes sense to me. Even if there were feelings for Maria and Gabriel, after he killed them, IMO the objective for him would be to destroy as much evidence pointing to him as he could, and in the shortest amount of time possible.

JMO

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by Squawk Box
I'm thinking the bodies were buried in his back yard because of a lack of time to take them somewhere else.

I think it is possible he felt they would burn to ashes so why move them?

I think he felt it would be to dangerous to move them from his back yard to someplace else under the nose of Christina and the chance he may be seen by someone else.

His solution in my opinion was to make ashes out of them.

MOO [/*]

That sounds logical to me, Squawk.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by strick10


I've never looked at the fire pit quite that way. I figured the blocks were placed around the pit to help keep the fire isolated but the way the blocks were placed on top of the ground seemed like kind of a weird way to set them. I figured you'd have to have at least part of the blocks buried in the ground for the containment to be fully effective. I noticed that the block didn't have that much soot on them for them to have been in place for all the bon fires they had. [/*]


Strick, what do you think when looking at some pictures on how the blocks were placed? I don't see them surrounding the entire grave. It looked to me like they were in a square in the middle. There was pit extending away from them on both sides.

I have thought they were placed in a way to put a large grill over them for bbq. barf

I'm interested in what you think of that.

JMO

[martha]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


A father does not kill his child. It was his DNA but I will never refer to him as the "father". [/*] I see sorry I just did not understand where you were coming from. My mind is working very slow this morning. lol have a good day:rose:

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by martha
I see sorry I just did not understand where you were coming from. My mind is working very slow this morning. lol have a good day:rose: [/*]

:rose:

[martha]

Originally posted by Marcia3


Good morning, martha! So good to "see" you again.

Hope your day is a good one...:) [/*] Hi Marcia3 good to see you here today. I did not sleep much last night so not thinking very good this morning. The shots I got yesterday at the doc's offiec is breaking a lot of this mess i have up so i just know i will be better in a few day. ha have a very good day marcia3:rose:

[caejde]

But didn't Sutherland say that it appears Cesar didn't intend on burning the bodies? And that the bonfires were there to disguise where the bodies were buried? Or is it believe Sutherland only when it comes to certain aspects of the case?

[Mimi428]

I have definitely thought from the beginning that Cesar's motivation for the bonfires was to reduce the remains of Maria to ashes. I think he may have erroneously believed he could reduce everything to ashes.

And it could certainly be nothing more than an oddity that the cinder blocks were placed in rectangle around the fire pit.

Another thing I'm wondering about is when he got that large tattoo of the phoenix, rising from the ashes, put on his left arm - & why he chose that symbol in the first place.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


That sounds logical to me, Squawk. [/*]

I was trying to find out some information on a case very similar to this that occurred in 1988 in Kentucky. The body was totally burned, but some teeth remained for identification. Unfortunately there is no information on the internet. I would have liked to read it. The only information I found was the memorial board and an appeal which did not have the original information in it.

Just saying..........

jmo

[caejde]

Originally posted by Mimi428
I have definitely thought from the beginning that Cesar's motivation for the bonfires was to reduce the remains of Maria to ashes. I think he may have erroneously believed he could reduce everything to ashes.

And it could certainly be nothing more than an oddity that the cinder blocks were placed in rectangle around the fire pit.

Another thing I'm wondering about is when he got that large tattoo of the phoenix, rising from the ashes, put on his left arm - & why he chose that symbol in the first place. [/*]

With his tats...he would have to have had them prior to February 2007--I believe. As the Commandant of the Marine Corps came out with a new regulation that tatoo's on the arms should not extend below the bottom of the tshirt. Any Marine that already had tatoo's like this were to be photographed, annotated and in their record book. And if any Marine would have violated this new regulation, they would have been charged. So I think it's safe to say that he would have had his tats prior to any of this.

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by caejde
But didn't Sutherland say that it appears Cesar didn't intend on burning the bodies? And that the bonfires were there to disguise where the bodies were buried? Or is it believe Sutherland only when it comes to certain aspects of the case? [/*]

I didn't remember he said that. No ulterior motive LOL.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by Squawk Box



Strick, what do you think when looking at some pictures on how the blocks were placed? I don't see them surrounding the entire grave. It looked to me like they were in a square in the middle. There was pit extending away from them on both sides.

I have thought they were placed in a way to put a large grill over them for bbq.

I'm interested in what you think of that.

JMO [/*]

I certainly know plenty of folks who have large bbq pits constructed in their back yards. But even the biggest wouldn't require a grill or grate the size that would be needed for that pit in Cesar's back yard. And none of them were so low. If a grill or grate had been placed over those cinder blocks, there would not have been any room underneath for the fire.

[caejde]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


I didn't remember he said that. No ulterior motive LOL. [/*]

I could be wrong on what he said...since I don't have a link or anything...but I could have sworn he stated that he doesnt' believe the bodies were intentionally burned.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by caejde
But didn't Sutherland say that it appears Cesar didn't intend on burning the bodies? And that the bonfires were there to disguise where the bodies were buried? Or is it believe Sutherland only when it comes to certain aspects of the case? [/*]

I have no idea why he said that. No, I don't agree with him on that if it was even said.

JMO

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


I was trying to find out some information on a case very similar to this that occurred in 1988 in Kentucky. The body was totally burned, but some teeth remained for identification. Unfortunately there is no information on the internet. I would have liked to read it. The only information I found was the memorial board and an appeal which did not have the original information in it.

Just saying..........

jmo [/*]

But was the body burned/charred inside a pit or just burned and not buried?

'Cause there's lots of cases where bodies are intentionally burned and not buried at all.

IMO RS is more than likely correct in that it was not Cesar's intention to burn the body (bodies). I mean, aren't you one of the ones that say "LE KNOWS MORE THAN WE DO, THEY'VE SEEN ALL THE EVIDENCE"?

So, why would he be wrong about this particular thing and correct about everything else?

Just sayin'.....

[caejde]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


I have no idea why he said that. No, I don't agree with him on that if it was even said.

JMO [/*]

Why would he say that then? He is LE...he does have all the facts...not us.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by caejde


I could be wrong on what he said...since I don't have a link or anything...but I could have sworn he stated that he doesnt' believe the bodies were intentionally burned. [/*]

He said it. And when he did, most of us were like :eek:

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by caejde


With his tats...he would have to have had them prior to February 2007--I believe. [/*]

<snipped>

Thanks for reminding of us that, caejde - I had forgotten the discussion earlier that mentioned that.

[caejde]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


He said it. And when he did, most of us were like :eek: [/*]

I didn't think I was wrong. I have a pretty good memory. But since I don't have a link to back me up....

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by Mimi428


I certainly know plenty of folks who have large bbq pits constructed in their back yards. But even the biggest wouldn't require a grill or grate the size that would be needed for that pit in Cesar's back yard. And none of them were so low. If a grill or grate had been placed over those cinder blocks, there would not have been any room underneath for the fire. [/*]

I don't know for sure. He could of just been burning coals under that. :shrug:

There is not much burning on the blocks. They might have been set aside for the bonfires.

I bbq and I thnk it is logical.
jmo

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by caejde


Why would he say that then? He is LE...he does have all the facts...not us. [/*]

You'll have to ask him. I have no idea. It was at the very beginning of the case. I already said I don't agree with that.



jmo

[caejde]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


You'll have to ask him. I have no idea. It was at the very beginning of the case. I already said I don't agree with that.



jmo [/*]

Why don't you agree? Is it because it doesn't fit with what you believe? I don't see why he would say something if it wasn't true...or if they have evidence to prove otherwise...Just sayin.....

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


But was the body burned/charred inside a pit or just burned and not buried?

'Cause there's lots of cases where bodies are intentionally burned and not buried at all.

IMO RS is more than likely correct in that it was not Cesar's intention to burn the body (bodies). I mean, aren't you one of the ones that say "LE KNOWS MORE THAN WE DO, THEY'VE SEEN ALL THE EVIDENCE"?

So, why would he be wrong about this particular thing and correct about everything else?

Just sayin'..... [/*]

You don't believe "LE KNOWS MORE THAN WE DO, THEY'VE SEEN ALL THE EVIDENCE?"

It was his opinion at the very beginning of the case. :shrug:

jmo

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by caejde
But didn't Sutherland say that it appears Cesar didn't intend on burning the bodies? And that the bonfires were there to disguise where the bodies were buried? Or is it believe Sutherland only when it comes to certain aspects of the case? [/*]

Because of the marked charring of Maria's body, what has led me to believe that Maria's body was burned before any dirt was placed on top of her was from these comments:

From the "Off the Cuff" question answered by Capt. Sutherland asking .... Nails in the grave site?:

http://onslowcrime.encblogs.com/?p=66#comments


This video report by Trace Gallagher:

Trace Gallagher touring the crime scene and in that video, he says ... they believe that he dug down about 2-1/2 or 3 feet and put Lauterbach's body there, and then used the sections of the fence on top of her and lit them on fire. The Medical Examiner says that because it was so charred he believes the fire burned very hot and for a very long time. Then, when there was nothing but ash, he put more mud and more dirt put on top. Police believe this took several hours if not a couple of days. (@50 seconds in the video countdown)

http://tinyurl.com/2kx2d2


In Greta’s Crime Scene Tour video at @ 1:40:

GVS: “Can I just ask you about the wood fences, see the wood panels are missing from the fence?” Any theory on where those wood panels, any relationship this case?”

SB: “Well, there’s wood panels missing here and wood panels missing over here, what I am told, as they exhumed the body, that there were staples and the nails which indicated that they probably had been used in this burning in the pit.”

http://tinyurl.com/2wmoda


At @ 1:20 in the video interview of Richard Alander:

Kim Gebbia, WECT Reporter: “About 2 weeks ago, the same time Lauterbach vanished,, he saw Laurean specifically take down a chunk of his wooden fence and set it on fire”.

Richard Alander: “Well, there were fence panels here and the whole year and half that we’ve been living here, they never burned nothing ever in their back yard, and now there’s a burn pile in the middle of the yard”.

http://tinyurl.com/yutzoy

btw ~ if anyone has the link to Capt. Sutherland saying that Laurean didn't intend to burn the bodies, can you post it, please. TIA

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by caejde


Why don't you agree? Is it because it doesn't fit with what you believe? I don't see why he would say something if it wasn't true...or if they have evidence to prove otherwise...Just sayin..... [/*]

I need a link to him saying that.

[caejde]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


I need a link to him saying that. [/*]

I'm looking. I believe it was an interview with Greta.

[caejde]

Originally posted by caejde


I'm looking. I believe it was an interview with Greta. [/*]

If I find it, I'll post it. If not...well chalk it up to being my opinion. But I have a firm recollection of him saying that. Believe as you wish!

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by caejde


If I find it, I'll post it. If not...well chalk it up to being my opinion. But I have a firm recollection of him saying that. Believe as you wish! [/*]

I only remember it being on the board a long way back with no link then either.

So until a link is furnished, I'll chalk it up to he didn't say it.

jmo

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by caejde


I'm looking. I believe it was an interview with Greta. [/*]

That may have been it, caejde. IIRC, there was no video or transcript of one of the shows she did with Capt. Sutherland around the same time as the Crime Scene tour where they were in the office looking at the computer screen of the videos at the ATM. JMO

(that's why I wish Greta had transcripts for ALL her shows for referencing back)

[strick10]

Originally posted by Squawk Box



Strick, what do you think when looking at some pictures on how the blocks were placed? I don't see them surrounding the entire grave. It looked to me like they were in a square in the middle. There was pit extending away from them on both sides.

I have thought they were placed in a way to put a large grill over them for bbq. barf

I'm interested in what you think of that.

JMO [/*]
I've never read too much into the fire pit really. I looked at the picture just now and all I see is a a square. IMO he was short squares to contain the entire area or the fire creeped under the blocks and spread somewhat around that area. I really don't have an in depth thought in this area.

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by caejde


If I find it, I'll post it. If not...well chalk it up to being my opinion. But I have a firm recollection of him saying that. Believe as you wish! [/*]

I remember someone saying that, either RS or SB (not Sqwak Box). :D

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


I don't know for sure. He could of just been burning coals under that. :shrug:

There is not much burning on the blocks. They might have been set aside for the bonfires.

I bbq and I thnk it is logical.
jmo [/*]

Why would he move the blocks if their purpose is to keep the fire contained?

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by Marcia3


I remember someone saying that, either RS or SB (not Sqwak Box). :D [/*]

:confused:

[IvySterling]

~snip
Originally posted by Squawk Box
So until a link is furnished, I'll chalk it up to he didn't say it.
jmo [/*]
You go ahead and chalk it up to whatever :D I also heard it said to GVS by RS.

[hinman]

Originally posted by Marcia3
Good morning everybody!

For those of you who just had the earthquake, give us a shout out and let us know you're okay!

What's on the docket for today's discussion? Did we wear out the "other father" speculations sufficiently yesterday?

:D [/*]Felt the earthquake but we are OK.

[hinman]

Originally posted by caejde
But didn't Sutherland say that it appears Cesar didn't intend on burning the bodies? And that the bonfires were there to disguise where the bodies were buried? Or is it believe Sutherland only when it comes to certain aspects of the case? [/*He did say that and it made no sense to me. There were a couple conflicting statements on that and it might have JB who said it but one of them said it did not appear that CL was trying to burn the bodies but instead cover up the bodies. Or something to that affect.

If you go back and look at the first reports when she was found it they say that he burned her and then buried her. Lots of the reports say that. I was so confused for a while on that fact.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by caejde


Why don't you agree? Is it because it doesn't fit with what you believe? I don't see why he would say something if it wasn't true...or if they have evidence to prove otherwise...Just sayin..... [/*]

I don't either and he was very clear on what they believe.

Why wouldn't he just burn up all of the body? If it hadn't burned up by New Years he had 10 more days to burn the fencing if he wanted to do so. If he used accelerants on the body the body would have been completely engulfed in flames and there wouldn't be anything left but bone fragments and ashes and Maria certainly wouldn't have weighed 95 pounds when uncovered. There certainly would be no way a plastic bag would have remained or any clothing at all nor would there be an identifiable tag on the baby clothing even showing the size of the outfit.

I am glad that CS and OCSD has used their experience and commonsense in this case. IMOO they know they can find no evidence that it was his intent to char the bodies and decided he only did so to camouflage where he had placed the shallow grave.

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by IvySterling
~snip

You go ahead and chalk it up to whatever :D I also heard it said to GVS by RS. [/*]

He absolutely did.:D

imoo

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by hinman
Felt the earthquake but we are OK. [/*]

Glad to hear that!

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by IvySterling
~snip

You go ahead and chalk it up to whatever :D I also heard it said to GVS by RS. [/*]

OK, I will.:D

[bkwits]

Originally posted by hinman
Felt the earthquake but we are OK. [/*]

:seeya: Hiya hinman

I heard from my sis in St. Louis. She said they felt a tremble about 4:45 AM. But everything is ok. I saw where some concrete chunks fell from the KIngshighway overpass. I guess that's over I 40. The paper didn't say.

I didn't feel anything here.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


He absolutely did.:D

imoo [/*]

Do you have the link?:o

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


Do you have the link?:o [/*]

No, but I have my eyes and ears.......which work just fine.

I cannot help if you did not see the show as it was being aired, SB.......if you did you wouldn't need a link either.:)

imoo

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


No, but I have my eyes and ears.......which work just fine.

I cannot help if you did not see the show as it was being aired, SB.......if you did you wouldn't need a link either.:)

imoo [/*]

LOL without a link it didn't happen. imo

[hinman]

Originally posted by bkwits


:seeya: Hiya hinman

I heard from my sis in St. Louis. She said they felt a tremble about 4:45 AM. But everything is ok. I saw where some concrete chunks fell from the KIngshighway overpass. I guess that's over I 40. The paper didn't say.

I didn't feel anything here. [/*]We have friend who work for the police department that told us their desk shook a little. It woke me up about the same time your sis felt it.

I am glad you are OK bkwits.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


Why would he move the blocks if their purpose is to keep the fire contained? [/*]

We don't know the purpose of the blocks. jmo

[mini-me]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


We don't know the purpose of the blocks. jmo [/*]He probably used the blocks because he wanted people to think it was just a fire pit. People do use bricks around their fire pits. Not always that type tho.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by mini-me
He probably used the blocks because he wanted people to think it was just a fire pit. People do use bricks around their fire pits. Not always that type tho. [/*]

They didn't go around the pit. They formed a square in the middle with pit protruding out from both sides quite a good distance.
A picture shows that.

jmo

[strick10]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


They didn't go around the pit. They formed a square in the middle with pit protruding out from both sides quite a good distance.
A picture shows that.

jmo [/*]

I'm looking at the pic of the pit. So that area to the lower right of the blocks is part of the pit and the area on the upper left of the blocks (kinda looks like a trench to me) is also part of the pit?

[mini-me]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


They didn't go around the pit. They formed a square in the middle with pit protruding out from both sides quite a good distance.
A picture shows that.

jmo [/*]Maybe he didn't have enough blocks to do the whole circle. Why is it important?

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


We don't know the purpose of the blocks. jmo [/*]

You said he "set them aside for the bonfires". I think that's improbable because he would move them away for the bonfires, burn a fire, and then continuously move them back and forth? That doesn't make any sense.

What purpose do YOU think the blocks served?

[CanCan]

Originally posted by caejde


If I find it, I'll post it. If not...well chalk it up to being my opinion. But I have a firm recollection of him saying that. Believe as you wish! [/*]

I have that same recollection, caejde. I'm even remembering arguing the point myself WITH a link, but where that link is now, I just don't know.

jmo

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


You said he "set them aside for the bonfires". I think that's improbable because he would move them away for the bonfires, burn a fire, and then continuously move them back and forth? That doesn't make any sense.

What purpose do YOU think the blocks served? [/*]

I posted up thread that the picture of the pit I looked at, it looked like
the blocks were in the middle of the actual grave. A square. Not covering the entire pit. I thought maybe the blocks were used to put a large grill across and bbq. barf

Everytime I have to post this it makes me sick.

This is an opinion only.

[CanCan]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


They didn't go around the pit. They formed a square in the middle with pit protruding out from both sides quite a good distance.
A picture shows that.

jmo [/*]

IIRC the blocks in the photos are not in their original positions according to SEB on Greta. They were moved during the investigation.

jmo

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by strick10


I'm looking at the pic of the pit. So that area to the lower right of the blocks is part of the pit and the area on the upper left of the blocks (kinda looks like a trench to me) is also part of the pit? [/*]

OK, let me go get the picture I am talking about.

[CanCan]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I don't either and he was very clear on what they believe.

Why wouldn't he just burn up all of the body? If it hadn't burned up by New Years he had 10 more days to burn the fencing if he wanted to do so. If he used accelerants on the body the body would have been completely engulfed in flames and there wouldn't be anything left but bone fragments and ashes and Maria certainly wouldn't have weighed 95 pounds when uncovered. There certainly would be no way a plastic bag would have remained or any clothing at all nor would there be an identifiable tag on the baby clothing even showing the size of the outfit.

I am glad that CS and OCSD has used their experience and commonsense in this case. IMOO they know they can find no evidence that it was his intent to char the bodies and decided he only did so to camouflage where he had placed the shallow grave.

imoo [/*]


In addition, GentleBreeze, CL's burning ONLY to camouflage the shallow grave fits in with.....

1. "I loved her" = he wouldn't intentionally burn Maria's body

2. Gabriel may not be his son = he was not burning the bodies to destroy the baby's DNA which some thought would convict him in a rape trial

Makes sense to me. JMO

[Squawk Box]

This is how it appeared to the police when they arrived on the scene.

There is no way those blocks are covering the entire grave. They appear to be more in the middle with dug up dirt on both sides.

Maybe they were used to put a grill on it. I don't believe they were used to surround the pit.

http://a.abclocal.go.com/images/wtvd/cms_exf_2007/news/local/mcs_firepit.jpg

jmo

[Squawk Box]

There is also dug up dirt to the left and right. I do not believe Maria was laying under just that square. jmo

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I don't either and he was very clear on what they believe.

Why wouldn't he just burn up all of the body? If it hadn't burned up by New Years he had 10 more days to burn the fencing if he wanted to do so. If he used accelerants on the body the body would have been completely engulfed in flames and there wouldn't be anything left but bone fragments and ashes and Maria certainly wouldn't have weighed 95 pounds when uncovered. There certainly would be no way a plastic bag would have remained or any clothing at all nor would there be an identifiable tag on the baby clothing even showing the size of the outfit.

I am glad that CS and OCSD has used their experience and commonsense in this case. IMOO they know they can find no evidence that it was his intent to char the bodies and decided he only did so to camouflage where he had placed the shallow grave.

imoo [/*]


It takes a long time to burn a body to
ashes. He burned more then once. I think you might be disappointed when all the evidence is known. jmo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Squawk Box
There is also dug up dirt to the left and right. I do not believe Maria was laying under just that square. jmo [/*]

I am not sure that is dug up dirt. If you go back and look at the aerial photo with Google Earth darkened areas are seen in the yard and was showing up way before this happened. The darkened area could be some disease that had gotten into the grass and killed that area. Of course not to disturb the body LE would have started much further out than the initial grave so that evidence wouldn't be lost.

The cylinder blocks look to be the average 16 inch long by 8 inches high. So that would be about a 4 x4 grave, approximately. That certainly would be enough room to place her especially if she was resting on her side in a fetal position with her legs pulled close to her body.

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Squawk Box



It takes a long time to burn a body to
ashes. He burned more then once. I think you might be disappointed when all the evidence is known. jmo [/*]

How rude. Disappointed?:rolleyes: Because I happen to believe Captain Sutherland?:rolleyes:

imoo

[Destini]

This case is so bizarre. I don't think they were trying to burn the body either. Why would you bury someone, put dirt over them & then burn a fire on top? Why not just burn the body outright? Doesn't make sense.

And for that matter, if you were trying to hide a grave, why put a fire pit there at all? Why not just plant shrubs or put a storage building there? Why draw attention by building a fire pit and having a party?

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


How rude. Disappointed?:rolleyes: Because I happen to believe Captain Sutherland?:rolleyes:

imoo [/*]

Link please:rolleyes: Rude?

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by Destini
This case is so bizarre. I don't think they were trying to burn the body either. Why would you bury someone, put dirt over them & then burn a fire on top? Why not just burn the body outright? Doesn't make sense.

And for that matter, if you were trying to hide a grave, why put a fire pit there at all? Why not just plant shrubs or put a storage building there? Why draw attention by building a fire pit and having a party? [/*]

No time for all you're suggesting. Of course he was trying to burn the body. She was burned. jmo

[caejde]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


No time for all you're suggesting. Of course he was trying to burn the body. She was burned. jmo [/*]

Link please????

[chance]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


Link please:rolleyes: Rude? [/*]


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rude

1. discourteous or impolite, esp. in a deliberate way: a rude reply.

[CanCan]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


No time for all you're suggesting. Of course he was trying to burn the body. She was burned. jmo [/*]

She was burned....but only unintentionally as an indirect result of the fire built to hide the hastily-built grave.

JMO

[caejde]

Originally posted by CanCan


She was burned....but only unintentionally as an indirect result of the fire built to hide the hastily-built grave.

JMO [/*]

She was wrapped in a comforter and then placed in the pit...that leads me to believe the burning was not intentional. I'm still looking for the link. I watched a Greta video and it wasn't there. Someone was thinking maybe AMW.

Edited to add: That if the burning was intentional...IMO there would be alot less left of her than what they had.

[CanCan]

Originally posted by caejde


She was wrapped in a comforter and then placed in the pit...that leads me to believe the burning was not intentional. I'm still looking for the link. I watched a Greta video and it wasn't there. Someone was thinking maybe AMW.

Edited to add: That if the burning was intentional...IMO there would be alot less left of her than what they had. [/*]

Exactly right.

jmo

[nuttintodo]

Here is what the gravesite/firepit looked like after Maria's body was removed.

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn213/Nuttins198/firepit.jpg

If you notice this picture was taken while OCSD/SBI were on the scene on 1/12/08.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by caejde


She was wrapped in a comforter and then placed in the pit...that leads me to believe the burning was not intentional. I'm still looking for the link. I watched a Greta video and it wasn't there. Someone was thinking maybe AMW.

Edited to add: That if the burning was intentional...IMO there would be alot less left of her than what they had. [/*]

caedje, you don't need to look for the link of what 99.99% of us heard with our own ears and saw with our own eyes.

You bring a lot to this board already and to have to defend that says more about the person that keeps harping on links than it says about you.

Stop looking and get out and enjoy the sunshine.

And that's an order!

:patriot:

[Ionmhainn]

Originally posted by caejde


She was wrapped in a comforter and then placed in the pit...that leads me to believe the burning was not intentional. I'm still looking for the link. I watched a Greta video and it wasn't there. Someone was thinking maybe AMW.

Edited to add: That if the burning was intentional...IMO there would be alot less left of her than what they had. [/*]

caejde...much has been said about the "burning" and LE has offered an opinion, but they haven't been "inside CL's head" yet.
Intentional or not, it sure doesn't seem that he cared one way or the other...imo.

ETA...I didn't read back, so not taking "sides" here! JMO

[martha]

I really don;t think he intended to kill her and how and what to do after it happened was not very good thinking. he said he loved her and what ever happened that day put him in a rage. so after thought he did not know what to do. yes she was burned some but i don;t think he was trying to burn her comp.up.why not use gas or something to do that with? I have not been to this sight and have no idea what it looked like. cl did not plan this murder so 20 years olds don;t think very well after the fact. jmho but something sent him in to a rage and it is anybody guess what that was. the death of ml and her baby is what bothers me not the blocks or the grave.jmho:rose:

[caejde]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


caedje, you don't need to look for the link of what 99.99% of us heard with our own ears and saw with our own eyes.

You bring a lot to this board already and to have to defend that says more about the person that keeps harping on links than it says about you.

Stop looking and get out and enjoy the sunshine.

And that's an order!

:patriot: [/*]

Thank you very much! I really appreciate that. We haven't too long gotten back from the park...so we did enjoy the sunshine.

[martha]

Originally posted by caejde


She was wrapped in a comforter and then placed in the pit...that leads me to believe the burning was not intentional. I'm still looking for the link. I watched a Greta video and it wasn't there. Someone was thinking maybe AMW.

Edited to add: That if the burning was intentional...IMO there would be alot less left of her than what they had. [/*] ita it was like he wanted to take care of her in someway. I don;t understand this case and none of know what cl was thinging but what ever it was it was not good.jmho:rose:

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


caedje, you don't need to look for the link of what 99.99% of us heard with our own ears and saw with our own eyes.

You bring a lot to this board already and to have to defend that says more about the person that keeps harping on links than it says about you.

Stop looking and get out and enjoy the sunshine.

And that's an order!

:patriot: [/*]

It has already been asked of RS on that blog. I don't know why he will be believed though, since he is not believed about Charistina. :D

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by CanCan


She was burned....but only unintentionally as an indirect result of the fire built to hide the hastily-built grave.

JMO [/*]

Then he didn't mean to set the fire?

[caejde]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


Then he didn't mean to set the fire? [/*]

Stop baiting.

You know exactly what she meant. Of course he set the fire...but it was not with the intent to burn the bodies. It was to disguise what was truly there.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by nuttintodo
Here is what the gravesite/firepit looked like after Maria's body was removed.

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn213/Nuttins198/firepit.jpg

If you notice this picture was taken while OCSD/SBI were on the scene on 1/12/08. [/*]

It seems to cover the area I was questioning, no? I guess it wasn't a grass disease after all like GB suggested. jmo

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by caejde


Stop baiting.

You know exactly what she meant. Of course he set the fire...but it was not with the intent to burn the bodies. It was to disguise what was truly there. [/*]

I AM NOT BAITING. You stop being so hostile.

The only way it wouldn't have been intentional is if he never set the fire to begin with. Anyone would know if you set a fire over a body buried six inches in the grown in a comforter it would burn. I believe Cesar had the smarts to know that.

jmo

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


also has to be up to 1400 degrees...

see link:http://www.nfda.org/page.php?pID=160
about cremation....
I don't think he really was thinking rationally enough to think she would be burned up, honestly, I think she was put in a hole he dug, and the firepit business was meant to cover-up. IMO [/*]

Cesar didn't know that so he kept burning.
He was NOT thinking rationally or he would have known it wouldn't work.

jmo

[caejde]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


I AM NOT BAITING. You stop being so hostile.

The only way it wouldn't have been intentional is if he never set the fire to begin with. Anyone would know if you set a fire over a body buried six inches in the grown in a comforter it would burn. I believe Cesar had the smarts to know that.

jmo [/*]

I'm not being hostile at all. No reason to be. Seems like you're getting upset because noone is siding with you over the burning issue. If Cesar was going to burn Maria intentionally, he would have burned her and then buried her....and not bury her and then burn on top.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


It has already been asked of RS on that blog. I don't know why he will be believed though, since he is not believed about Charistina. :D [/*]

You were the one who said you didn't believe him about the fire.

:rolleyes:

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by caejde


Link please???? [/*]

To what? My opinion?:confused:

[caejde]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


You were the one who said you didn't believe him about the fire.

:rolleyes: [/*]

As long as he says Christina is innocent, that will be believed. Anything else he might say is not. Whatever though.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


You were the one who said you didn't believe him about the fire.

:rolleyes: [/*]

Without a link to what he said I don't believe he said it.

[caejde]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


To what? My opinion?:confused: [/*]

Upthread you said he was trying to burn the body...I asked for a link. You also said he didn't have time to do what another poster had suggested...so was just asking...

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by caejde


As long as he says Christina is innocent, that will be believed. Anything else he might say is not. Whatever though. [/*]

;)

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by caejde


I'm not being hostile at all. No reason to be. Seems like you're getting upset because noone is siding with you over the burning issue. If Cesar was going to burn Maria intentionally, he would have burned her and then buried her....and not bury her and then burn on top. [/*]


I am not upset at all. I like discussion. I don't have to be surrounded by a group of yes people. I do not care to be accused of something I didn't do though.

Stop making excuses for Cesar. He set the fire and he burned her. jmo

[caejde]

Originally posted by Squawk Box



I am not upset at all. I like discussion. I don't have to be surrounded by a group of yes people. I do not care to be accused of something I didn't do though.

Stop making excuses for Cesar. He set the fire and he burned her. jmo [/*]

Please show me where I have ever made an excuse for Cesar??? You won't find it because I have NEVER made an excuse for him. I have never defended him and I never will. So don't even go there accusing me of doing so. I am not a "yes" person. I like discussion but I know how you can be. You do bait. And yes upthread, to me that was baiting. I knew was was being said by the poster but you wanted to egg something on.

[nuttintodo]

Oh geez louise. :read:

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


Without a link to what he said I don't believe he said it. [/*]

I don't see why you think people on this board are lying to you. I'm sure if you'll go back to the date of the Greta show in question, you'll find posts relating to what was said - even posts about the "un-blurred" photo of Christina that was shown.

You're on your own.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


I AM NOT BAITING. You stop being so hostile.

The only way it wouldn't have been intentional is if he never set the fire to begin with. Anyone would know if you set a fire over a body buried six inches in the grown in a comforter it would burn. I believe Cesar had the smarts to know that.

jmo [/*]

Six inches? I thought SB said she was buried in a three foot grave?

imoo

[strick10]

Originally posted by nuttintodo
Oh geez louise. :read: [/*]

and Sam :read:

[caejde]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Six inches? I thought SB said she was buried in a three foot grave?

imoo [/*]

I had heard/read it was more like 1-2 feet....

[chance]

Originally posted by Squawk Box



I am not upset at all. I like discussion. I don't have to be surrounded by a group of yes people. I do not care to be accused of something I didn't do though.

Stop making excuses for Cesar. He set the fire and he burned her. jmo [/*]

I don't think any one disagrees with the fact that he set the fire and MLs body was burnt as a result of the fire.

Imo the disscusion was weather he intended to burn her body or was he disguising the grave.

Now let's play nice.

moo

[Olives]

Originally posted by Squawk Box



I am not upset at all. I like discussion. I don't have to be surrounded by a group of yes people. I do not care to be accused of something I didn't do though.

Stop making excuses for Cesar. He set the fire and he burned her. jmo [/*]

I agree with you, he set the fire to burn the body of Maria and the baby.

[CanCan]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


Then he didn't mean to set the fire? [/*]

OK, now you're just on a fishing expedition and I ain't biting.:no:

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by chance


I don't think any one disagrees with the fact that he set the fire and MLs body was burnt as a result of the fire.

Imo the disscusion was weather he intended to burn her body or was he disguising the grave.

Now let's play nice.

moo [/*]

I'm the one not playing nice?

He did both.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by CanCan


OK, now you're just on a fishing expedition and I ain't biting.:no: [/*]

:confused: Just skip on over my posts.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by caejde


I had heard/read it was more like 1-2 feet.... [/*]

Thank you.

I thought I heard it was dug 3 feet. When I watched the video of the detectives that were in the hole when they lifted her body up to take it away it sure seem to be deeper than a foot or two. In fact one of the detectives almost fell trying to get out of the hole and onto solid higher ground.

imoo

[strick10]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Thank you.

I thought I heard it was dug 3 feet. When I watched the video of the detectives that were in the hole when they lifted her body up to take it away it sure seem to be deeper than a foot or two. In fact one of the detectives almost fell trying to get out of the hole and onto solid higher ground.

imoo [/*]

I believe Greta reported about 1 foot, but, I also remember LE saying it was about 2 1/2 - 3 feet deep.

[cuppajoe]

Originally posted by Mystical


Of course he did. He thought he could destroy evidence that way. He sure went to a lot of trouble too, but it didn't work.

:seeya: [/*]


Yup, he burned the body to get rid of the DNA evidence. No question about that. jmo

:seeya:

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


Cesar didn't know that so he kept burning.
He was NOT thinking rationally or he would have known it wouldn't work.

jmo [/*]

but minutes after the murder he was thinking rationally enough to cover the entire crime scene, move the body, move the car, all in about an hour and a half? jmo

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by strick10


I believe Greta reported about 1 foot, but, I also remember LE saying it was about 2 1/2 - 3 feet deep. [/*]
http://i31.tinypic.com/2whf87d.jpg

[strick10]

Originally posted by marinewife5


but minutes after the murder he was thinking rationally enough to cover the entire crime scene, move the body, move the car, all in about an hour and a half? jmo [/*]

That's one fast mo fo IMO.

[caejde]

Originally posted by strick10


That's one fast mo fo IMO. [/*]

Must have been drinking some Vault or Red Bull.

[strick10]

Originally posted by IvySterling

http://i31.tinypic.com/2whf87d.jpg [/*]

Thanks Ivy. My ruler isn't working well on my computer screen so I'll have to guess. Looks sloped in the pic you provided. My guesstimate is that it was about 2 1/2' deep.

[strick10]

Originally posted by caejde


Must have been drinking some Vault or Red Bull. [/*]

or something.....minute maid?

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by strick10


or something.....minute maid? [/*]

Hmmm wonder if there was something else in that minute maid fruit punch???? :D

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by strick10


Thanks Ivy. My ruler isn't working well on my computer screen so I'll have to guess. Looks sloped in the pic you provided. My guesstimate is that it was about 2 1/2' deep. [/*]

TYVM Ivy!

I had been looking high and low for that picture!

[baywench]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Hmmm wonder if there was something else in that minute maid fruit punch???? :D [/*]


OK guys, I just read four pages of nothing.......don't feed the fishes and they will go away. Some of they take longer than others. JMO

[mini-me]

Originally posted by marinewife5


but minutes after the murder he was thinking rationally enough to cover the entire crime scene, move the body, move the car, all in about an hour and a half? jmo [/*]Did such a good job CSL never seen a thing wrong. Wonder if he was sitting on the sofa watching TV or something when she walked in.

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by mini-me
Did such a good job CSL never seen a thing wrong. Wonder if he was sitting on the sofa watching TV or something when she walked in. [/*]

wheel of fortune, i'll bet. jmo

[mini-me]

Originally posted by marinewife5


wheel of fortune, i'll bet. jmo [/*]No I think it was that program called WITHOUT A TRACE.

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by mini-me
No I think it was that program called WITHOUT A TRACE. [/*]

he shoulda been watching Cheaters last spring...then he wouldn't have brought maria in on his carpy life to begin with. jmo

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by marinewife5


wheel of fortune, i'll bet. jmo [/*]

Might have been Law & Order or 48 Hrs. But hey it could have been Jeopardy....

jmooo

[Charlotte]

There were many different reports on the depth of the grave.

Abc.com and cbs.com reported it as six inches to one foot deep.

AMW reported it as 14-16 inches deep.

Others have said 2-3 feet deep.

I think some of the variations are due to some referencing the entire depth of the hole, and others referencing how far below the ground surface the highest part of ML's body was.

Laying on her side, her body's "width" would have been vertical, filling a good part of the hole and only being covered by a certain number of inches of dirt on top. The hole may have been dug 2-3 feet down, but the higher part of her body could have been as little as 6 inches to a foot underground. JMO

[CanCan]

Originally posted by mini-me
No I think it was that program called WITHOUT A TRACE. [/*]

LMAO

[mini-me]

Originally posted by marinewife5


he shoulda been watching Cheaters last spring...then he wouldn't have brought maria in on his carpy life to begin with. jmo [/*]You are right but it sure didn't have to end this way. He could of told the truth but when you're young one does not always think of the consequences of their actions.

[Charlotte]

According to the news, the earthquake was felt here and registered a 4.2 in a town ten miles away.

I can only go by the news, though -- I apparently slept through it!

[Janz]

Originally posted by Charlotte
There were many different reports on the depth of the grave.

Abc.com and cbs.com reported it as six inches to one foot deep.

AMW reported it as 14-16 inches deep.

Others have said 2-3 feet deep.

I think some of the variations are due to some referencing the entire depth of the hole, and others referencing how far below the ground surface the highest part of ML's body was.

Laying on her side, her body's "width" would have been vertical, filling a good part of the hole and only being covered by a certain number of inches of dirt on top. The hole may have been dug 2-3 feet down, but the higher part of her body could have been as little as 6 inches to a foot underground. JMO [/*]

Thank yoiu Charlotte, though it is horrifying just to read it, isn`t it??

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by mini-me
You are right but it sure didn't have to end this way. He could of told the truth but when you're young one does not always think of the consequences of their actions. [/*]

Amen. :beer:

[Janz]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


surreal....just when you think you have "heard it all"....jmo [/*]

Yep, lying there barely covered!!

[Charlotte]

Originally posted by Janz


Thank yoiu Charlotte, though it is horrifying just to read it, isn`t it?? [/*]

You're welcome. And yes -- it is horrifying to read and think about.
It's difficult to type out responses that are dry and matter-of-fact in tone, while cringing at the reality of what we're discussing. IMO

[Pag Boi]

Originally posted by marinewife5


but minutes after the murder he was thinking rationally enough to cover the entire crime scene, move the body, move the car, all in about an hour and a half? jmo [/*]

Yes, he was. He'd had to have been IMO. I don't see any other way to make the sole suspect theory fit into a nice, square box



:chicken:

[Charlotte]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


Am guessing they did dig the site out a little deeper than she was laying, to get any forensic evidence below/ underneath her body...jmo [/*]
Good point.

[baywench]

Originally posted by Pag Boi


Yes, he was. He'd had to have been IMO. I don't see any other way to make the sole suspect theory fit into a nice, square box



:chicken: [/*]

He must have had a little "spousal support" IMO

[Janz]

Originally posted by Charlotte


You're welcome. And yes -- it is horrifying to read and think about.
It's difficult to type out responses that are dry and matter-of-fact in tone, while cringing at the reality of what we're discussing. IMO [/*]

Yes, but it is appreciated, this will come out at trial, at least we will be somewhat prepared for the horror factor If we can just get him extradited.

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by nuttintodo
Oh geez louise. :read: [/*]

Ditto. :(

[daniel green]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


snipped I'm sticking to the original story. I am saying it was Cesar's DNA.

[/*]

OK.

Sort of like sticking with "the earth is round" as opinion.

I hope that the evidence doesn't disappoint you.

[mini-me]

Originally posted by marinewife5


Amen. :beer: [/*]Maybe CSL was telling the truth when she said she didn't see any thing. It's called denial she just doesn't want to admit it.

[daniel green]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


A father does not kill his child. snipped[/*]

Surely that is not serious, is it? :confused:

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by Pag Boi


Yes, he was. He'd had to have been IMO. I don't see any other way to make the sole suspect theory fit into a nice, square box



:chicken: [/*]

Although it's been reported Christina got home at 7 p.m. (and not even sure there is a link for that), we do not know if she stayed there. It is possible she came in and went right out again and stayed out for a long time.

There are things we do not know but LE does.

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by daniel green


Surely that is not serious, is it? :confused: [/*]

SB is taking poetic license.

[daniel green]

Originally posted by Mimi428



Once I started pondering about the 'shrine' aspect, it brought to my mind the Mexican cultural tradition of Dia de los Muertos - Day of the Dead, which is on November 1st. I know many people of Mexican heritage who do NOT take part in the traditional celebrations of Dia de los Muertos, as is practiced in Mexico. But I also know many more who faithfully take care of the gravesites of their loved ones in ways that are not typical for those not of that culture.

snipped

Anyway, it did get me to wondering what Cesar's thinking might be regarding where Maria was buried. Another mystery to ponder.

JMO [/*]

The difference between burning a body in a pit in your back yard and the Dia de los Muertos tradition to go take care of your loved one's grave is just, well, complete.

[daniel green]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


SB is taking poetic license. [/*]

Thank you for the explanation!

I did not think of that. I thought it was a straight up assertion.

BTW, can't you just see Ludwig and NG fantasizing about the pit being a shrine?

barf

[Charlotte]

Originally posted by daniel green


OK.

Sort of like sticking with "the earth is round" as opinion.

I hope that the evidence doesn't disappoint you. [/*]

How does the opinion that the baby was Cesar's equal the opinion that the earth is round?

It has been suggested that the baby wasn't his.
Has anyone you know suggested that the earth is flat? :confused:

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


Although it's been reported Christina got home at 7 p.m. (and not even sure there is a link for that), we do not know if she stayed there. It is possible she came in and went right out again and stayed out for a long time.

There are things we do not know but LE does. [/*]

what if cl comes back and says he told her everything that very weekend? I agree with LE knowing what they know up to this point...but, Cesar could very well show what they know, vs. what they thought they knew. I'm gonna go ahead and wait for the fat lady to sing on this one. jmo

[daniel green]

Originally posted by Squawk Box



snipped I think you might be disappointed when all the evidence is known. jmo [/*]

Ha!

I said the same thing to you withouth having read this!

We were thinking the same thing.

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by marinewife5


what if cl comes back and says he told her everything that very weekend? I agree with LE knowing what they know up to this point...but, Cesar could very well show what they know, vs. what they thought they knew. I'm gonna go ahead and wait for the fat lady to sing on this one. jmo [/*]

That's fine, mw. I'm willing to admit I was wrong if it turns out that way, but frankly the reason I am so sure right now that Christina was not involved is because I think they have MORE than just her "story." Somehow. On various daily threads I've given examples of what I mean so I won't get into all that again. I think they must find her extremely believable. It's not easy to fool seasoned LE, I wouldn't think. Christina was, far as I know, just a *normal* young wife/mother/Marine. I'm not willing to give her enough credit for being all that smart/cunning to pull the wool over their eyes. I'd be very surprised if that were so. But, as I said, I'll eat crow if that's the case.

:cool:

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


That's fine, mw. I'm willing to admit I was wrong if it turns out that way, but frankly the reason I am so sure right now that Christina was not involved is because I think they have MORE than just her "story." Somehow. On various daily threads I've given examples of what I mean so I won't get into all that again. I think they must find her extremely believable. It's not easy to fool seasoned LE, I wouldn't think. Christina was, far as I know, just a *normal* young wife/mother/Marine. I'm not willing to give her enough credit for being all that smart/cunning to pull the wool over their eyes. I'd be very surprised if that were so. But, as I said, I'll eat crow if that's the case.

:cool: [/*]

I actually think Christina is pretty savvy. Most people facing this traumatic happening as it was unfolding would not think to obtain a criminal defense attorney before even turning over the notes. Wasn't it said that Christina's uncle is a lawyer and a rather successful one? I thought I read that somewhere.

All she has to do is stick to her story that she wasn't there. LE doesn't have a time of death so they cant refute it by placing her inside the home.

imoo

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I actually think Christina is pretty savvy. Most people facing this traumatic happening as it was unfolding would not think to obtain a criminal defense attorney before even turning over the notes. Wasn't it said that Christina's uncle is a lawyer and a rather successful one? I thought I read that somewhere.

All she has to do is stick to her story that she wasn't there. LE doesn't have a time of death so they cant refute it by placing her inside the home.

imoo [/*]

Yikes, anyone would think to get an attorney. Remember the boys who weren't at the party? LOL That was OK wasn't it?

jmo

[baywench]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


Yikes, anyone would think to get an attorney. Remember the boys who weren't at the party. LOL That was OK wasn't it?

jmo [/*]


Your posts make less and less sense. JMO

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by baywench



Your posts make less and less sense. JMO [/*]

I'm trying to be more like you.:D

[CanCan]

Originally posted by daniel green


That woman on The View. [/*]

LMAO

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I actually think Christina is pretty savvy. Most people facing this traumatic happening as it was unfolding would not think to obtain a criminal defense attorney before even turning over the notes. Wasn't it said that Christina's uncle is a lawyer and a rather successful one? I thought I read that somewhere.

All she has to do is stick to her story that she wasn't there. LE doesn't have a time of death so they cant refute it by placing her inside the home.

imoo [/*]

I disagree about the her being savvy by getting an attorney, GB.

Re your second paragraph: As I said, I base my opinion of their belief in her story on much more than just "they can't refute it since they don't have a time of death." I just feel for certain there is much MORE to just that.

There is a possibility that she took an LDT, although I know you don't believe that. I'm just saying it's possible. There could be witnesses as to where she was and when. Witnesses as to her demeanor at certain times....and a host of other stuff we just don't know.

I've also said before (though I messed up my post completely, you can ask Candy :D ) that I get the strong impression that they truly LIKE Christina. I don't think it's an act, or for an ulterior purpose, or that they can so easily be fooled. I think they believe her and have more evidence than you or I could ever imagine.

[CanCan]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


That's fine, mw. I'm willing to admit I was wrong if it turns out that way, but frankly the reason I am so sure right now that Christina was not involved is because I think they have MORE than just her "story." Somehow. On various daily threads I've given examples of what I mean so I won't get into all that again. I think they must find her extremely believable. It's not easy to fool seasoned LE, I wouldn't think. Christina was, far as I know, just a *normal* young wife/mother/Marine. I'm not willing to give her enough credit for being all that smart/cunning to pull the wool over their eyes. I'd be very surprised if that were so. But, as I said, I'll eat crow if that's the case.

:cool: [/*]

I've got 8 bottles of Famous Dave's Sweet n Zesty BBQ Sauce in my pantry at the ready for anybody who'd like some! :D

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by CanCan


I've got 8 bottles of Famous Dave's Sweet n Zesty BBQ Sauce in my pantry at the ready for anybody who'd like some! :D [/*]

Just don't break it out too soon. I've got Stump's BBQ Sauce in MY pantry, ALSO waiting to serve with the crow that "some" on here might be eating a few weeks or months down the road.

:biggrin:

[sunstar]

Originally posted by mini-me
No I think it was that program called WITHOUT A TRACE. [/*]
I like your sense of humor! :D

I think it's on Thursday nights though!

[baywench]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


Just don't break it out too soon. I've got Stump's BBQ Sauce in MY pantry, ALSO waiting to serve with the crow that "some" on here might be eating a few weeks or months down the road.

:biggrin: [/*]

Well SS if you're right about Christina I think I will be right there with the crow feast. I agree with you that they like her, but I think it is more because it will not serve any purpose for LE to anger her at this point. I feel her value lies in some sort of deal. JMO

[sunstar]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I actually think Christina is pretty savvy. Most people facing this traumatic happening as it was unfolding would not think to obtain a criminal defense attorney before even turning over the notes. Wasn't it said that Christina's uncle is a lawyer and a rather successful one? I thought I read that somewhere.

All she has to do is stick to her story that she wasn't there. LE doesn't have a time of death so they cant refute it by placing her inside the home.

imoo [/*]
I hadn't heard about her uncle before. :eek: You're right the ME and LE can't tell exactly the hour when Maria died so they probably just go by Mrs. CL saying she wasn't there that evening, maybe she did go back out after the party, and was gone the next day. In other words, nothing to tie her to the murder, but nothing really to exclude her either.

[baywench]

Golly gee, everyone must be out playing. GP....are you there?

[Charlotte]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Wasn't it said that Christina's uncle is a lawyer and a rather successful one? I thought I read that somewhere.

imoo [/*]

I don't know, I don't recall reading that. Do you remember the name of her rather successful lawyer uncle, or where you may have read this? TIA

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by baywench
Golly gee, everyone must be out playing. GP....are you there? [/*]

I am here reading....

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by baywench


Well SS if you're right about Christina I think I will be right there with the crow feast. I agree with you that they like her, but I think it is more because it will not serve any purpose for LE to anger her at this point. I feel her value lies in some sort of deal. JMO [/*]

I think they need her.

And it makes me wonder why she is so important?

Will this be mostly a circumstantial case and no forensic evidence to directly time him to the crime of murder? I think it is a very good possibility.

LOL The DA in the Michigan case this week sure didn't like the ones he didn't charge with any crimes even though they knew about the murder plot and helped load the victim's body but he knew he needed them to testify. So DAs have strange bedfellows sometimes.

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Charlotte


I don't know, I don't recall reading that. Do you remember the name of her rather successful lawyer uncle, or where you may have read this? TIA [/*]

I believe I read it here but it was some time ago. It may have been WS. I will try to see if I can find anything. From what I recall he lives in Ohio too.

I am trying to remember if it was on her mother's side or her step-father's brother. His name is Shifflet isn't it?

It has been awhile since I read that. IIRC it was when the case came out those first couple of weeks.

imoo

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


Yikes, anyone would think to get an attorney. Remember the boys who weren't at the party? LOL That was OK wasn't it?

jmo [/*]

What party?

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by Charlotte


I don't know, I don't recall reading that. Do you remember the name of her rather successful lawyer uncle, or where you may have read this? TIA [/*]

I think it was her grandfather. His obit was posted a while back in the local paper, listing both Amber and Christina as surviving relatives (local to the area).

If it's not on the links page, I honestly don't know where to tell you to look, 'cause frankly I don't even remember his name.

:shrug:

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

I think it was her grandfather. His obit was posted a while back in the local paper, listing both Amber and Christina as surviving relatives (local to the area).

If it's not on the links page, I honestly don't know where to tell you to look, 'cause frankly I don't even remember his name.

:shrug: [/*]

There is a personal injury lawyer in Prospect - Daniel Shiflett. No idea if he is her uncle, though.

[baywench]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I think they need her.

And it makes me wonder why she is so important?

Will this be mostly a circumstantial case and no forensic evidence to directly time him to the crime of murder? I think it is a very good possibility.

LOL The DA in the Michigan case this week sure didn't like the ones he didn't charge with any crimes even though they knew about the murder plot and helped load the victim's body but he knew he needed them to testify. So DAs have strange bedfellows sometimes.

imoo [/*]

If he had lived alone it would be a no-brainer. She was in his backyard. We can all fall out laughing at the notion that she committed suicide but what can be proved? Blunt force trauma is obvious and slash in throat "May" have been postmortem. The forensics I would think would point to both/either CL or CSL. Unless the from ML car or his truck that put HIM there. Like you I am worried by what at first seemed a slam/dunk case. In hindsight old CL did do some things right in terms of destroying evidence. They do seem to need Christina. So much is yet to be learned from CL (I would hope) Right now CSL holds all the cards....there is nothing or no one to refute her innocence. JMO

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


I think it was her grandfather. His obit was posted a while back in the local paper, listing both Amber and Christina as surviving relatives (local to the area).

If it's not on the links page, I honestly don't know where to tell you to look, 'cause frankly I don't even remember his name.

:shrug: [/*]

IIRC, her grandfather was military - but I could be dreaming this!

JMO

[caejde]

According to Lindell, the judge is set to seal some documents possibly next week.

http://onslowcrime.encblogs.com/?p=85

[crymeariver2006]

Has this been posted?

http://www.jdnews.com/articles/laurean_55990___article.html/authorities_mexico.html

But Dewey Hudson, district attorney for the 4th Prosecutorial District that includes Onslow County, said law enforcement officials have information that the Laureans were communicating by computer and may have made plans to meet.

Or this:

http://onslowcrime.encblogs.com/?p=85

[caejde]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006
Has this been posted?

http://www.jdnews.com/articles/laurean_55990___article.html/authorities_mexico.html



Or this:

http://onslowcrime.encblogs.com/?p=85 [/*]

I remember the part about they may have had plans to meet. Remember the cryptic message...the first 24 of the next 96...my bet is they were planning on meeting up over Memorial Day since that is the next long weekend. My opinion though. Also, I just posted the blog that you did!

[sunstar]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I think they need her.

And it makes me wonder why she is so important?

Will this be mostly a circumstantial case and no forensic evidence to directly time him to the crime of murder? I think it is a very good possibility.

LOL The DA in the Michigan case this week sure didn't like the ones he didn't charge with any crimes even though they knew about the murder plot and helped load the victim's body but he knew he needed them to testify. So DAs have strange bedfellows sometimes.

imoo [/*]
I think it will be circumstantial, likely based on Maria's allegations of rape (can they bring that up at the murder trial?) and CL's motive for wanting her and the baby dead. With so many conflicting dates for her death, how is the DA going to be able to say something like "during the evening of Dec. 14, etc." in his opening statement without the defense coming back and saying they don't know when she was killed? I have another question too, would LE now have the content of the emails between CL and his wife and would those be admissable if something is in them that the state could use at trial?

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by baywench


*snipped*

Right now CSL holds all the cards....there is nothing or no one to refute her innocence. JMO [/*]

Hate to snip ya, baywench, but that is exactly what I've been saying all along that we DON'T know to be absolutely true.

Wish I had that little man banging his head on the wall smilie.

If only we knew everything that LE knows.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


I disagree about the her being savvy by getting an attorney, GB.

Re your second paragraph: As I said, I base my opinion of their belief in her story on much more than just "they can't refute it since they don't have a time of death." I just feel for certain there is much MORE to just that.

There is a possibility that she took an LDT, although I know you don't believe that. I'm just saying it's possible. There could be witnesses as to where she was and when. Witnesses as to her demeanor at certain times....and a host of other stuff we just don't know.

I've also said before (though I messed up my post completely, you can ask Candy :D ) that I get the strong impression that they truly LIKE Christina. I don't think it's an act, or for an ulterior purpose, or that they can so easily be fooled. I think they believe her and have more evidence than you or I could ever imagine. [/*]

When you said "possible" I instantly thought of Sheriff Brown.:D

You know I respect your opinion and you may be right, who really knows what is going on behind the scene or what their true intents really may be. To me it shows me they will deem someone honorable when it behooves them and truly believe that the citizens of their county will fall for it hook, line and sinker when in all honesty I think most people that are aware that she chatted on and on from the first of February until the Federal raid.... with an international fugitive is not close to being honorable or credible.

What it does show IMOO is she is very capable and willing to cover up knowledge she has. She is so willing she was even willing to deceive her very own employer that hunted for him.

I do think since CS at the time was very aware of the buzz swirling around Christina that he would have simply said "she came in at 7pm and then went out again." After almost a month before the discovery I do not think there will be anything that includes or excludes CSL and if they have no time of death and don't know if happened 30 minutes before she arrived or 30 minutes after she came home.... she is home free. This murder/cover up and clean up happened behind closed doors.

Now all things are subject to change. They have repeatedly said "if additional information becomes known" and if they have evidence that is not adding up......if Cesar talks and it lines up with that evidence that may be perplexing to them and now makes the questions they may have much clearer.....it will be a new ball game imo.

Isn't it strange that the very day they are to announce the capture of Laurean and knows he will coming back to Jacksonville is the very time they take to try to polish the image of their witness. When for 3 months they were mum and only reiterated a gazillion times that she is a cooperating witness?

She had an attorney and no defense attorney recommends their client take a LDT imo. They may administer one privately but they aren't going to put her out there in case she failed even if she is innocent.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by sunstar

I think it will be circumstantial, likely based on Maria's allegations of rape (can they bring that up at the murder trial?) and CL's motive for wanting her and the baby dead. With so many conflicting dates for her death, how is the DA going to be able to say something like "during the evening of Dec. 14, etc." in his opening statement without the defense coming back and saying they don't know when she was killed? I have another question too, would LE now have the content of the emails between CL and his wife and would those be admissible if something is in them that the state could use at trial? [/*]

That will be quite interesting. How can they bring that in when he was never even charged for that crime nor found guilty? I think his lawyer will fight it tooth and nail and will say it is too prejudicial especially if Gabriel turns out not to even be his child. The motions that will be filed in this case will certainly be interesting. So many things the Judge is going to have to consider in order to protect his rights to a fair trial. BUT the defense attorney may want it in because it is totally inconsistent with an accuser coming to a supposed rapist's home on her own. He also would be able to delve into the affair aspect and I do think it existed and what if there really is a superior officer involved in all of this? The possibilities are endless.

It is according to what is said in the emails. Both sides may find parts they think is to their advantage to bring in. It is up to the Judge to decide.

Soooo I really don't know but I do think it is going to be one of the most interesting trials ever.

imoo

[baywench]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


When you said "possible" I instantly thought of Sheriff Brown.:D

You know I respect your opinion and you may be right, who really knows what is going on behind the scene or what their true intents really may be. To me it shows me they will deem someone honorable when it behooves them and truly believe that the citizens of their county will fall for it hook, line and sinker when in all honesty I think most people that are aware that she chatted on and on from the first of February until the Federal raid.... with an international fugitive is not close to being honorable or credible.

What it does show IMOO is she is very capable and willing to cover up knowledge she has. She is so willing she was even willing to deceive her very own employer that hunted for him.

I do think since CS at the time was very aware of the buzz swirling around Christina that he would have simply said "she came in at 7pm and then went out again." After almost a month before the discovery I do not think there will be anything that includes or excludes CSL and if they have no time of death and don't know if happened 30 minutes before she arrived or 30 minutes after she came home.... she is home free. This murder/cover up and clean up happened behind closed doors.

Now all things are subject to change. They have repeatedly said "if additional information becomes known" and if they have evidence that is not adding up......if Cesar talks and it lines up with that evidence that may be perplexing to them and now makes the questions they may have much clearer.....it will be a new ball game imo.

Isn't it strange that the very day they are to announce the capture of Laurean and knows he will coming back to Jacksonville is the very time they take to try to polish the image of their witness. When for 3 months they were mum and only reiterated a gazillion times that she is a cooperating witness?

She had an attorney and no defense attorney recommends their client take a LDT imo. They may administer one privately but they aren't going to put her out there in case she failed even if she is innocent.

imo [/*]

I check the headlines on foxnews everyday at work and you are right. It was beyond strange to me that one of the headlines was "Wife did help fugitive Marine with money" or something to that effect. How about "Wife is not alien from Mars"? Why even address it? Makes no sense. IMO

[sunstar]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


That will be quite interesting. How can they bring that in when he was never even charged for that crime nor found guilty? I think his lawyer will fight it tooth and nail and will say it is too prejudicial especially if Gabriel turns out not to even be his child. The motions that will be filed in this case will certainly be interesting. So many things the Judge is going to have to consider in order to protect his rights to a fair trial. BUT the defense attorney may want it in because it is totally inconsistent with an accuser coming to a supposed rapist's home on her own. He also would be able to delve into the affair aspect and I do think it existed and what if there really is a superior officer involved in all of this? The possibilities are endless.

It is according to what is said in the emails. Both sides may find parts they think is to their advantage to bring in. It is up to the Judge to decide.

Soooo I really don't know but I do think it is going to be one of the most interesting trials ever.

imoo [/*]
I appreciate your response and ideas! :) It's just been a few of the things going through my mind since his arrest and what information will be allowed in his trial and how it would play into the hands of either side. I don't see any direct evidence unless his prints are on the murder weapon to prove that CL (alone) killed her. If the rape allegations aren't admissable (which I wonder if they even should be since that was with the MC), then the only motive for CL would be to spare himself the financial responsibility of the child. :shrug:

[baywench]

Originally posted by sunstar

I appreciate your response and ideas! :) It's just been a few of the things going through my mind since his arrest and what information will be allowed in his trial and how it would play into the hands of either side. I don't see any direct evidence unless his prints are on the murder weapon to prove that CL (alone) killed her. If the rape allegations aren't admissable (which I wonder if they even should be since that was with the MC), then the only motive for CL would be to spare himself the financial responsibility of the child. :shrug: [/*]

My best guess on that is that an on-going relationship left doubt in his mind about the paternity. Unfortunately men have killed to avoid child support

[sunstar]

Originally posted by baywench


My best guess on that is that an on-going relationship left doubt in his mind about the paternity. Unfortunately men have killed to avoid child support [/*]
That is so true. :( And from what we know, it might be all the state will have for motive.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by sunstar

I appreciate your response and ideas! :) It's just been a few of the things going through my mind since his arrest and what information will be allowed in his trial and how it would play into the hands of either side. I don't see any direct evidence unless his prints are on the murder weapon to prove that CL (alone) killed her. If the rape allegations aren't admissible (which I wonder if they even should be since that was with the MC), then the only motive for CL would be to spare himself the financial responsibility of the child. :shrug: [/*]

I do know if this was a rape case along with the murder and LE knew Maria had been raped then maybe it could come in as it would show a repeated pattern. However there is no evidence showing rape or no rape due to decomposition and charring. So I cant think of a reason why it should be let in. Allegations came in ......in the Spector trial because there were so many that told the same story showing that he had a pattern of treating women violently but here in this case I don't even think they are going to find that he had a violent history at all and had no criminal past including never being accused before of raping anyone.

The problem they have with premeditation too IMO is he did not go to her place and kill her or lay in wait some other place. She came to his home and I do feel they think she did so willingly. So if she came there.......it couldn't have been done with premeditation but a violent explosion occurred once she arrived there when they got into a highly heated argument imo.

Also I wonder about just the one blow to the head. I think that too will become important and experts on each side will have differing opinions as to how that occurred. And I do admit it does puzzle me......if he was so angry why didn't he keep hitting her all over her head.... in a pent up rage? Usually, the bludgeoning murders I have read about had many blows to all parts of the head. Every autopsy report I have ever read if the victim dies of Multiple Blunt Force Trauma they always notate that on the report this ME did not but said death by BFT.

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by baywench


My best guess on that is that an on-going relationship left doubt in his mind about the paternity. Unfortunately men have killed to avoid child support [/*]

But what if they have evidence that she was leaving town. She had already told them that the child she was carrying wasn't his. And if he was going to kill her why help her buy a bus ticket? I cant wrap my mind around a motive....except something sparked the flame and the months of stress between the two erupted like a volcano.

Even though there is no reason to murder someone I guess I could see that if he knew he had been falsely accused about the rape and the baby being his until she rearranged that in November and then said it wasn't...... that within itself could have instilled rage if he came face to face with her. He had a right to be very angry if those things were false but he did not ever have a right to murder her.

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by baywench


I check the headlines on foxnews everyday at work and you are right. It was beyond strange to me that one of the headlines was "Wife did help fugitive Marine with money" or something to that effect. How about "Wife is not alien from Mars"? Why even address it? Makes no sense. IMO [/*]

Yes, it was strange. Instead of being the most important announcement they had made when they knew Laurean had been captured it become more of a CSL PC.

She did not send him any money. Her attorney had advised her not to if he made contact.

imo

[caejde]

http://onslowcrime.encblogs.com/?p=93

[sunstar]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I do know if this was a rape case along with the murder and LE knew Maria had been raped then maybe it could come in as it would show a repeated pattern. However there is no evidence showing rape or no rape due to decomposition and charring. So I cant think of a reason why it should be let in. Allegations came in ......in the Spector trial because there were so many that told the same story showing that he had a pattern of treating women violently but here in this case I don't even think they are going to find that he had a violent history at all and had no criminal past including never being accused before of raping anyone.

The problem they have with premeditation too IMO is he did not go to her place and kill her or lay in wait some other place. She came to his home and I do feel they think she did so willingly. So if she came there.......it couldn't have been done with premeditation but a violent explosion occurred once she arrived there when they got into a highly heated argument imo.

Also I wonder about just the one blow to the head. I think that too will become important and experts on each side will have differing opinions as to how that occurred. And I do admit it does puzzle me......if he was so angry why didn't he keep hitting her all over her head.... in a pent up rage? Usually, the bludgeoning murders I have read about had many blows to all parts of the head. Every autopsy report I have ever read if the victim dies of Multiple Blunt Force Trauma they always notate that on the report this ME did not but said death by BFT.

imoo [/*]
You're right, there isn't any evidence of rape and the allegation was only being handled by the MC, so wouldn't there have to be some agreement or cooperation for it to be brought into the state trial for murder? The only thing it could go to show, imo, is a motive for the murder ~ such as it being a false allegation. But then, the defense, imo, could show they were having a relationship, that Maria's charges were false, and there begins the "blame the victim". I don't think if CL killed her that it was premeditated either and you're right, there's nothing we know of in his background to show he had violent tendencies, unlike the pattern of behavior shown in Spector's trial. :)

[baywench]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


But what if they have evidence that she was leaving town. She had already told them that the child she was carrying wasn't his. And if he was going to kill her why help her buy a bus ticket? I cant wrap my mind around a motive....except something sparked the flame and the months of stress between the two erupted like a volcano.

Even though there is no reason to murder someone I guess I could see that if he knew he had been falsely accused about the rape and the baby being his until she rearranged that in November and then said it wasn't...... that within itself could have instilled rage if he came face to face with her. He had a right to be very angry if those things were false but he did not ever have a right to murder her.

imoo [/*]

Passion murder.....raw emotion? You're right, the stress all three of them had been under must have been immense. Any of the allegations against any of them would be life altering if proved true. People have killed over less unfortunately. I still have my 3 theories....still can't prove or dissaprove any. Dang, we will have to go en masse to the trial. With a few exceptions of course. :cool: JMO

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by baywench


Passion murder.....raw emotion? You're right, the stress all three of them had been under must have been immense. Any of the allegations against any of them would be life altering if proved true. People have killed over less unfortunately. I still have my 3 theories....still can't prove or disapprove any. Dang, we will have to go en masse to the trial. With a few exceptions of course. :cool: JMO [/*]

I sure would love to see this one but it is too far for me although I could beg Nuttin to put me up for awhile.....I guess.:D

Uh...um .. LOL

imoo

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I sure would love to see this one but it is too far for me although I could beg Nuttin to put me up for awhile.....I guess.:D

Uh...um .. LOL

imoo [/*]

She will. It will be like a slumber party when i come back down for the trial. :tongue:

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by marinewife5


She will. It will be like a slumber party when i come back down for the trial. :tongue: [/*]

Sounds great!:biggrin:

imo:seeya:

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Sounds great!:biggrin:

imo:seeya: [/*]


we'd better make it a "surprise" slumber party so she doesn't have the chance to say no:D

something tells me that i'll be even more confused after hearing all the evidence. still so many maybe's at this point. i know that LE thinks they have the best theory, and i hope they're right. i fear we may never know exactly what happened to end maria's life. jmo

[Pag Boi]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


I am here reading.... [/*]


Yeah!! What do you make of the latest case news?

[CanCan]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I sure would love to see this one but it is too far for me although I could beg Nuttin to put me up for awhile.....I guess.:D

Uh...um .. LOL

imoo [/*]:D


I've racked up a ton of frequent flyer miles lately...............:D

[Kim]

its all in the tone.Thats a fact.we all have opinions and most express them without being insulting.she posted with the quote of someone giving a compliment for petes sake to someone who does not agree with you or her.There is no grey area there as to what the agenda was.

[gaelicpeas]

So, I wonder what's going to be in these documents to be unsealed next week....

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
So, I wonder what's going to be in these documents to be unsealed next week.... [/*]

Yes! I wonder!

[SavannahStar]

I STARTED A SATURDAY THREAD.

:)

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by caejde
According to Lindell, the judge is set to seal some documents possibly next week.

http://onslowcrime.encblogs.com/?p=85 [/*]

UNseal some documents. Lindell's comment posted at 8:57 p.m., 4/18/08.

I sure hope that happens. It would be great if we had more info to work with in trying to piece together what may have happened.

[Kim]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
So, I wonder what's going to be in these documents to be unsealed next week.... [/*]
Can you explain what this means? are these documents that have already been made public or maybe some that contain information that may harm someons reputation or release personal info maybe Marias? Thanks

[sunstar]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


But what if they have evidence that she was leaving town. She had already told them that the child she was carrying wasn't his. And if he was going to kill her why help her buy a bus ticket? I cant wrap my mind around a motive....except something sparked the flame and the months of stress between the two erupted like a volcano.

Even though there is no reason to murder someone I guess I could see that if he knew he had been falsely accused about the rape and the baby being his until she rearranged that in November and then said it wasn't...... that within itself could have instilled rage if he came face to face with her. He had a right to be very angry if those things were false but he did not ever have a right to murder her.

imoo [/*]
Good afternoon :seeya: I can't find a motive if he helped her buy the bus ticket, or so he says was at the bus station, then to kill her later on that evening. I can see a lot of anger though with both him and Mrs. CL if he'd been falsely accused of rape, and maybe led to believe the baby was his then to find out it wasn't *if* Maria told him that. I really would like to know what was going on between the two of them, and what communications they had prior to the 14th that led her over to his house. I'm also curious what LE believes CL might say. Usually they aren't interested in hearing from a suspect.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by sunstar

Good afternoon :seeya: I can't find a motive if he helped her buy the bus ticket, or so he says was at the bus station, then to kill her later on that evening. I can see a lot of anger though with both him and Mrs. CL if he'd been falsely accused of rape, and maybe led to believe the baby was his then to find out it wasn't *if* Maria told him that. I really would like to know what was going on between the two of them, and what communications they had prior to the 14th that led her over to his house. I'm also curious what LE believes CL might say. Usually they aren't interested in hearing from a suspect. [/*]

It just drives me bonkers. It doesn't have any logic and commonsense that can be applied to it to make it reasonable and understandable.

Even if the agreement to come there and be together was decided by both of them it had to be just darn weird for that to happen right in his very own home. Of course I have never cheated on my hubby but if I did and brought my lover to my house knowing that I had no assurances when my hubby would be returning I would be so nervous I couldn't think straight. Especially if I had a nosy, nosy neighbor like Wanda right next door.:eek:

Why do you think Lindell has a photo of "Sharpshooters"? Did they meet there that day before going to his home I wonder?

I think that too is highly unusual, Sun. Why do they seem to really want to talk to him? They are not supposed to need what he has to say to prove their case BARD.:shrug:

imoo