Thurs. 17 Apr 08 Daily Discussion

[strick10]

Some early risers on this board. Let's see if anything new materializes today.

[marinewife5]

Good Morning...just checking in before a busy day. I hope that the extradition process flows smoothly. I know it's too much to hope that it will be swift, so I will settle for smooth. jmo

[martha]

Originally posted by marinewife5
Good Morning...just checking in before a busy day. I hope that the extradition process flows smoothly. I know it's too much to hope that it will be swift, so I will settle for smooth. jmo [/*] ITA with you marinewife5 just so it is done sooner or later we had all rather it would be sooner.lol I got to go to doc and take my hubby so i will be in and out all day but hope everyone will keep posting. have a very good day:rose:

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by martha
ITA with you marinewife5 just so it is done sooner or later we had all rather it would be sooner.lol I got to go to doc and take my hubby so i will be in and out all day but hope everyone will keep posting. have a very good day:rose: [/*]

You have a good day too martha!:rose:

[strick10]

Originally posted by marinewife5
Good Morning...just checking in before a busy day. I hope that the extradition process flows smoothly. I know it's too much to hope that it will be swift, so I will settle for smooth. jmo [/*]

Busy is good. Hope the extradition happens sooner than it has been said.

[caejde]

This whole week I've been dreaming about this case. But my most recent was he waived extradition. Don't know if it means anything...just a dream.

[strick10]

Originally posted by caejde
This whole week I've been dreaming about this case. But my most recent was he waived extradition. Don't know if it means anything...just a dream. [/*]

That's crazy. This case must really be on your mind. Take that dream back.....we want him to agree to extradition. Wonder if CAL has a lawyer in Mexico.

[caejde]

Originally posted by strick10


That's crazy. This case must really be on your mind. Take that dream back.....we want him to agree to extradition. Wonder if CAL has a lawyer in Mexico. [/*]

If you think that dream was crazy...should hear the one I had earlier in the week....I can still remember details...it was that vivid. Usually I have been away from the case a few hours before going to bed...so it's weird that I've been dreaming about it. I think they said he did have a representive there in Mexico and his lawyer here-Wally Paramore-is in contact.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by caejde
This whole week I've been dreaming about this case. But my most recent was he waived extradition. Don't know if it means anything...just a dream. [/*]

I don't know if it means anything but Hudson seems to think CL is not going to fight extradition.

I am sure he is communicating with Mexico authorities who may be giving this information to him.

imoo

[Janz]

Originally posted by caejde


If you think that dream was crazy...should hear the one I had earlier in the week....I can still remember details...it was that vivid. Usually I have been away from the case a few hours before going to bed...so it's weird that I've been dreaming about it. I think they said he did have a representive there in Mexico and his lawyer here-Wally Paramore-is in contact. [/*]

Morning everyone, just stopping in briefly to check. Will be in and out today. I don`t have dreams but am haunted by the entire sad, sad case! May we all have answers soon........Will he be brought back soon rather than later??? Have a great day everyone!!

[KKKKKKatie]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I don't know if it means anything but Hudson seems to think CL is not going to fight extradition.

I am sure he is communicating with Mexico authorities who may be giving this information to him.

imoo [/*]

I would sure rather be in a US jail than a Mexican jail awaiting trial!

[nuttintodo]

KKKKKKatie, I second that opinion!

No way would I want to ever be in a Mexican jail.

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by nuttintodo
KKKKKKatie, I second that opinion!

No way would I want to ever be in a Mexican jail. [/*]

Me either. I wouldn't want to be in any jail, anywhere, but if I had to be in one, I wouldn't choose Mexico!

:D

[strick10]

Originally posted by caejde


If you think that dream was crazy...should hear the one I had earlier in the week....I can still remember details...it was that vivid. Usually I have been away from the case a few hours before going to bed...so it's weird that I've been dreaming about it. I think they said he did have a representive there in Mexico and his lawyer here-Wally Paramore-is in contact. [/*]

Maybe you Jacksonville board folks should invite Wally to lunch just to chat....:D

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by caejde


If you think that dream was crazy...should hear the one I had earlier in the week....I can still remember details...it was that vivid. Usually I have been away from the case a few hours before going to bed...so it's weird that I've been dreaming about it. I think they said he did have a representive there in Mexico and his lawyer here-Wally Paramore-is in contact. [/*]

Man, dreams can be so strange and sometimes mine stay with me for days. Usually the dreams that bother me most are the ones that stick around in my head the longest. Go figure.

I'm still catching up from last night. BBL when I'm done :read:

[daniel green]

SavannahStar posted:


Hi Donna, sorry to snip your very excellent and heartfelt post, but I only wanted to ask a question regarding the above, which you have said very often on here.

What IF....sometime in the future, during the trial or before or after, the DA or anyone else in authority comes out and states that Christina IS innocent of any wrong doing, that she had NO part in the murder OR the "cover-up".....and what IF there is solid evidence that this is true? That is made public?

Would you still say, despite all PROVEN evidence to the contrary, that you believe she was involved?

If so, that would shock me. I think most of us by now are pretty fairly wedded to our own theory(ies) whatever they may be, but have said they are subject to change IF something comes up to prove differently.

Currently, as you know, I am convinced Christina is entirely innocent. I could say as you do, "I will always believe....." but I would temper that with, "BUT......I could be wrong and will admit that if necessary when proof comes to light."

Just wondering!

................................
==============
.................................


I was thinking about this last night as I was driving home, SS. And I think that if Mrs L is not arrested or charged I will agree that certainly LE knows more than we do and be satisfied with that.

There is always the nagging feeling of "what if they just don't have enough for probable cause?" And that would linger for me.

While my gut feeling is that Mrs L had a lot to do with the murder and coverup, if the police were to actually say that they find her innocent or made it public that they have facts to support that belief--well, that would be more than enough for me. I would agree with them.

I just don't believe that board posters, either here or at JDwhatever, have come up with anything that LE has not come up with.

It is clear to them that the window of opportunity for the murder and cover up is very small, I am sure they know when Mrs L got home, all of that.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by strick10


Maybe you Jacksonville board folks should invite Wally to lunch just to chat....:D [/*]

Hmmm I can think of a couple others I'd like to have lunch with us....


Someone is going to do what you and I discussed earlier TODAY.

[daniel green]

Good morning, GB.

I was reading your posts from last night and agreeing with them.

Most especially about how utterly weird it was that LE and the DA talked about Mrs L's feelings, her diary, etc? Why on earth talk about how she loves her husband despite his cheating?:eek:

However there is one thing you said with which I disagree:
=============
GB posted:

I just can't fathom any mother telling their own adopted child that they should give up the one thing that would make them feel whole again and have belonging and purpose.

=============

I would advice or encourage my adopted children to think about an adoption placement under similar circumstances.

[Squawk Box]

I've been thinking the DA and LE came out with some information on Christina because they are seeing her bashed so much and know she doesn't deserve it. Maybe trying to help her cope without such bad publicity. I would think by now they see what they said didn't matter at all.

JMO

[IvySterling]

~snipped
Originally posted by daniel green
However there is one thing you said with which I disagree:
=============
GB posted:
I just can't fathom any mother telling their own adopted child that they should give up the one thing that would make them feel whole again and have belonging and purpose.
=============
I would advice or encourage my adopted children to think about an adoption placement under similar circumstances. [/*]
Ditto here!

[nuttintodo]

Well Lindell Kay has just dropped a bombshell over at Off the Cuff....

http://www.onslowcrime.encblogs.com

[KKKKKKatie]

Originally posted by nuttintodo
Well Lindell Kay has just dropped a bombshell over at Off the Cuff....

http://www.onslowcrime.encblogs.com [/*]

CL seems much more worried about the rape charges than murder charges :rolleyes:

[Lyn_T]

Originally posted by nuttintodo
Well Lindell Kay has just dropped a bombshell over at Off the Cuff....

http://www.onslowcrime.encblogs.com [/*]

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by daniel green
Good morning, GB.

I was reading your posts from last night and agreeing with them.

Most especially about how utterly weird it was that LE and the DA talked about Mrs L's feelings, her diary, etc? Why on earth talk about how she loves her husband despite his cheating?:eek:

However there is one thing you said with which I disagree:
=============
GB posted:

I just can't fathom any mother telling their own adopted child that they should give up the one thing that would make them feel whole again and have belonging and purpose.

=============

I would advice or encourage my adopted children to think about an adoption placement under similar circumstances. [/*]

Good morning Daniel.

Even though I cannot fathom it, I certainly respect your opinion and take on it.

IMO a mother truly knows their child's inner feelings and would have been able to see that is not what Maria really wanted. From what we have learned Maria was very excited and looking forward to having Gabriel.

Maybe.... I would suggest adoption if I knew for certain in my heart this was really what my adopted child wanted but if I knew deep in my heart that keeping this child meant everything to her I could never suggest such a thing. What is even sadder imo it seems Maria wasn't able to express her own true feelings to her own mother for most of her life. But then maybe she did on the 14th in her conversation with her mother where she was to have been highly upset with her.

I do hope that Maria did have her say and imo she finally did voice her wants and desires to her mother about keeping her child imo.

imoo:seeya:

[crymeariver2006]

Lindell's latest is up:

http://onslowcrime.encblogs.com/?p=82#comment-581

(While I hope his "reliable source" is reliable, I don't want to think he's buying in to the Code Red (or whatever it was called) carp that was being spun there earlier.

JMO

[strick10]

Originally posted by Squawk Box
I've been thinking the DA and LE came out with some information on Christina because they are seeing her bashed so much and know she doesn't deserve it. Maybe trying to help her cope without such bad publicity. I would think by now they see what they said didn't matter at all.

JMO [/*]

Shouldn't they remain fair but impartial in all cases. I found it to be un-professional. I don't understand why they are so concerned in changing the publics view on CSL. People are going to think what they are going to think until the LE says that she has been cleared on any and all involvement. Is it normal for the LE to be so concerned about a witness that they publicly release comments as they did at that presser? Just askin' don't know. IMO it just made the matter worse.

[Kel65]

Originally posted by nuttintodo
Well Lindell Kay has just dropped a bombshell over at Off the Cuff....

http://www.onslowcrime.encblogs.com [/*]

I have to say this does not come as a shock to me. JMO

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by Kel65


I have to say this does not come as a shock to me. JMO [/*]

So, are we now talking rage over false accusations?

:shrug:

[strick10]

Originally posted by nuttintodo
Well Lindell Kay has just dropped a bombshell over at Off the Cuff....

http://www.onslowcrime.encblogs.com [/*]

Mama Mia!!!!!!!!!

[Kel65]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


So, are we now talking rage over false accusations?

:shrug: [/*]

Maybe? JMO

[caejde]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


So, are we now talking rage over false accusations?

:shrug: [/*]

Or he'd been thinking this was his child--because they did have consensual sex--and deep inside he was excited and then to find out it possibly wasn't his?

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by Kel65


Maybe? JMO [/*]

I see someone just asked the same question I asked. Who is the "military wife and mother" reporting all this information?

Mary Lauterbach?

If so, this is a long held belief of hers that Cesar was Maria's superior officer.

[strick10]

Originally posted by KKKKKKatie


CL seems much more worried about the rape charges than murder charges :rolleyes: [/*]

There's probably alot more involved not only in the rape allegations but the murder charges. Maybe, just maybe, he was telling the truth that he only buried Maria. I'm not going to buy this until I see otherwise though. We're going to have wait and see.

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by Kel65


I have to say this does not come as a shock to me. JMO [/*]

Me either. I don't think it's a bombshell. :shrug:

[caejde]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


I see someone just asked the same question I asked. Who is the "military wife and mother" reporting all this information?

Mary Lauterbach?

If so, this is a long held belief of hers that Cesar was Maria's superior officer. [/*]

Why would a military wife/mother be involved in the original incident report?? Wouldn't that be Maria giving info to a case agent

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by strick10


Shouldn't they remain fair but impartial in all cases. I found it to be un-professional. I don't understand why they are so concerned in changing the publics view on CSL. People are going to think what they are going to think until the LE says that she has been cleared on any and all involvement. Is it normal for the LE to be so concerned about a witness that they publicly release comments as they did at that presser? Just askin' don't know. IMO it just made the matter worse. [/*]

I think it only made the matter "worse" for those already convinced of her guilt, and made the matter "better" for those already convinced of her innocence. That make sense?

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by nuttintodo
Well Lindell Kay has just dropped a bombshell over at Off the Cuff....

http://www.onslowcrime.encblogs.com [/*]

The mind boggles. I'm going to have to find that fainting couch & get in smelling salts for sure if it turns out that Cesar was not the father. I can hardly wrap my mind around the possibility that there is some other guy, somewhere, who was the father of that innocent baby.

The more that is revealed (or just hinted at), the more it appears that Maria was about as 'on your own, deal with everything by yourself' as a person could possibly be.

JMO

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by caejde


Why would a military wife/mother be involved in the original incident report?? Wouldn't that be Maria giving info to a case agent [/*]

Don't know. Unless he's talking about the SW that was called the "incident report" when it was reported that someone in the Laurean house looked at it online?

'Cause I'd bet a southern fried crow tv dinner that ALL of that information, from the "due any day" to the "superior officer" came from Mary Lauterbach.

Me thinks Lindell, although a great guy and provider of scoops, may be reading too much in to it. I mean, we're talking tin foil hat stuff.

JMO

[strick10]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


I see someone just asked the same question I asked. Who is the "military wife and mother" reporting all this information?

Mary Lauterbach?

If so, this is a long held belief of hers that Cesar was Maria's superior officer. [/*]

Maybe the military wife and mother was the possible fathers wife....

[caejde]

So, the military is holding off testing any other possible fathers...but how would they know who that possible father is?? Like I said...for all we know it could be someone in SC, some civilian in Jacksonville, a Sailor...so if it's not Cesar...I dont see how they are going to know who the father is.

[Kel65]

Originally posted by caejde
So, the military is holding off testing any other possible fathers...but how would they know who that possible father is?? Like I said...for all we know it could be someone in SC, some civilian in Jacksonville, a Sailor...so if it's not Cesar...I dont see how they are going to know who the father is. [/*]

I supsect they probably have an idea. They could have interviewed people who knew Maria and relationship she may have had with other people. Speculating here.

[strick10]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


I think it only made the matter "worse" for those already convinced of her guilt, and made the matter "better" for those already convinced of her innocence. That make sense? [/*]

Makes sense to me Savannah.

[caejde]

Originally posted by Kel65


I supsect they probably have an idea. They could have interviewed people who knew Maria and relationship she may have had with other people. Speculating here. [/*]

That's true!

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by nuttintodo
Well Lindell Kay has just dropped a bombshell over at Off the Cuff....

http://www.onslowcrime.encblogs.com [/*]

WOW!

Somehow I expected this all along.

What in the world was going on?

This is just the weirdest case I have ever seen.

:eek: :eek: :eek:

[strick10]

Originally posted by caejde
So, the military is holding off testing any other possible fathers...but how would they know who that possible father is?? Like I said...for all we know it could be someone in SC, some civilian in Jacksonville, a Sailor...so if it's not Cesar...I dont see how they are going to know who the father is. [/*]

Maybe Maria told them whom she'd had relations with in May.

[caejde]

Originally posted by strick10


Maybe Maria told them whom she'd had relations with in May. [/*]

That's true too.

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by Kel65


I supsect they probably have an idea. They could have interviewed people who knew Maria and relationship she may have had with other people. Speculating here. [/*]

Maybe Maria shared the information with someone before she died. Or kept a journal.

If CAL was not the father of Gabriel, then that only goes to motive, not circumstantial evidence in the murder charge. IMO he may have lashed out in anger at having been accused of rape by Maria, and the implication that followed that he was the father of her unborn child. Messed with his marriage, his career, his life.

JMO of course.

[caejde]

Am I the only one a little surprised by this??

I mean of course the due date didn't match up with the dates of the alleged rapes. But that made me think that either the conception date was wrong or that she and Cesar had sex in May sometime but she didn't report that.

Maybe Cesar was right and that he never had sex with her--which I don't believe--because why would Maria point him out if they hadn't?

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Kel65


I suspect they probably have an idea. They could have interviewed people who knew Maria and relationship she may have had with other people. Speculating here. [/*]

I am more and more convinced now that the MC has much more information than we could even imagine about the rape allegations. I think they had their suspicions all along that this child was not Laurean's and may already know who his father is.

It conjures up all kinds of things..........like.........was Laurean used as a fall guy and she did this to protect the true father's identity?:confused: She probably had no concept at the time that they would demand DNA as proof.

imoo

[AmyO]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


WOW!

Somehow I expected this all along.

What in the world was going on?

This is just the weirdest case I have ever seen.

:eek: :eek: [/*]
I agree GB! I didn't seriously entertain the idea that Cesar was not Gabriel's father. OMG. So the only thing that could have made him go off was the rape allegation and the Marines prosecuting him? Not that that isn't a lot but maybe it just all boils down to that. But he "loved her". :shrug:

[caejde]

Originally posted by AmyO

I agree GB! I didn't seriously entertain the idea that Cesar was not Gabriel's father. OMG. So the only thing that could have made him go off was the rape allegation and the Marines prosecuting him? Not that that isn't a lot but maybe it just all boils down to that. But he "loved her". :shrug: [/*]

Maybe he did and maybe she didn't. There's a whole lot of maybe's in this case. Twists and turns were right!

But still the Marines would not have charged him for anything if he was innocent. If the baby turned out to not be his they have nothing to charge him on.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by caejde
Am I the only one a little surprised by this??

I mean of course the due date didn't match up with the dates of the alleged rapes. But that made me think that either the conception date was wrong or that she and Cesar had sex in May sometime but she didn't report that.

Maybe Cesar was right and that he never had sex with her--which I don't believe--because why would Maria point him out if they hadn't? [/*]

Well, if they never had sex and she accused him anyway....I can see where he'd be ripped, especially if she had been telling co-workers or her UVA that the baby was his and only recently backed off from that.

No excuse for murder, mind you...but I can definitely see the rage part.

And if, IF all that's true, Maria had some issues.

Again, big IF

[strick10]

Originally posted by Marcia3


Maybe Maria shared the information with someone before she died. Or kept a journal.

If CAL was not the father of Gabriel, then that only goes to motive, not circumstantial evidence in the murder charge. IMO he may have lashed out in anger at having been accused of rape by Maria, and the implication that followed that he was the father of her unborn child. Messed with his marriage, his career, his life.

JMO of course. [/*]
But, but if that baby was not CAL's and he knew it or if Maria went there to tell him that he was home free. She was no longer a threat to his family or his career and he had to have known that was the fact if that baby was not his. So why was she killed.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by strick10

But, but if that baby was not CAL's and he knew it or if Maria went there to tell him that he was home free. She was no longer a threat to his family or his career and he had to have known that was the fact if that baby was not his. So why was she killed. [/*]

Because if she left, they couldn't test the DNA and he would not have any proof? Might he then be "convicted without evidence"?

All I got to say is DAY-UM!

[strick10]

Originally posted by caejde
Am I the only one a little surprised by this??

I mean of course the due date didn't match up with the dates of the alleged rapes. But that made me think that either the conception date was wrong or that she and Cesar had sex in May sometime but she didn't report that.

Maybe Cesar was right and that he never had sex with her--which I don't believe--because why would Maria point him out if they hadn't? [/*]

I'm a little surprised too caejde. I was convinced the possibility of the baby being CALs would be the motive. Now with the possibility of him not being the father what was the motive.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


Well, if they never had sex and she accused him anyway....I can see where he'd be ripped, especially if she had been telling co-workers or her UVA that the baby was his and only recently backed off from that.

No excuse for murder, mind you...but I can definitely see the rage part.

And if, IF all that's true, Maria had some issues.

Again, big IF [/*]

If all these things turn out to be true then when she came there right to his own home and maybe taunting him or spilled the beans, telling him he had been had......... then I think any reasonable jury can see that emotions exploded and it would reduce it to a second degree crime of passion case imo.

Imo

[caejde]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


Because if she left, they couldn't test the DNA and he would not have any proof? Might he then be "convicted without evidence"?

All I got to say is DAY-UM! [/*]

I don't believe they would have convicted him without evidence. And IA with your post just above that IF...and that's a very big IF that Maria just used him to be the fall guy...then she did have problems. However, I just don't think that was the case. I think they did have a relationship, maybe after she found out he was married she slept with someone else--to kinda "get back" at him. Maybe she truly wanted the baby to be his but deep down knew it wasn't possible. And maybe on that day-the 14th-she went and told him there was no way he could be the father.

[KKKKKKatie]

Originally posted by strick10


There's probably alot more involved not only in the rape allegations but the murder charges. Maybe, just maybe, he was telling the truth that he only buried Maria. I'm not going to buy this until I see otherwise though. We're going to have wait and see. [/*]

So who killed her??? LE says that Christine is not guilty. Who else then?

[strick10]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I am more and more convinced now that the MC has much more information than we could even imagine about the rape allegations. I think they had their suspicions all along that this child was not Laurean's and may already know who his father is.

It conjures up all kinds of things..........like.........was Laurean used as a fall guy and she did this to protect the true father's identity?:confused: She probably had no concept at the time that they would demand DNA as proof.

imoo [/*]

But why. A pregant woman does not have to reveal the identity of the father. What's the catch here?

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by caejde


I don't believe they would have convicted him without evidence. And IA with your post just above that IF...and that's a very big IF that Maria just used him to be the fall guy...then she did have problems. However, I just don't think that was the case. I think they did have a relationship, maybe after she found out he was married she slept with someone else--to kinda "get back" at him. Maybe she truly wanted the baby to be his but deep down knew it wasn't possible. And maybe on that day-the 14th-she went and told him there was no way he could be the father. [/*]

We know he wouldn't be convicted without evidence, but it's what did he know or believe at the time.

Kind of shoots that "MC believed Cesar over Maria" right out of the water, don't you think?

[caejde]

Originally posted by strick10


But why. A pregant woman does not have to reveal the identity of the father. What's the catch here? [/*]

That's right they don't!

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by strick10

But, but if that baby was not CAL's and he knew it or if Maria went there to tell him that he was home free. She was no longer a threat to his family or his career and he had to have known that was the fact if that baby was not his. So why was she killed. [/*]

Rage, an argument that got out of hand.

Or he simply didn't believe her and thought she was saying it to save her own life and that of her unborn child?

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by strick10


But why. A pregnant woman does not have to reveal the identity of the father. What's the catch here? [/*]

But she did because she had accused someone of rape and only retracted that Laurean wasnt the father later when it was too late. The NCIS was going to get to the bottom of it.

imoo

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by strick10

But, but if that baby was not CAL's and he knew it or if Maria went there to tell him that he was home free. She was no longer a threat to his family or his career and he had to have known that was the fact if that baby was not his. So why was she killed. [/*]

Or - Cesar could have believed that Maria WANTED to have sex with him when she didn't.

Cesar could have believed that Maria WANTED to have a relationship with him, when she didn't.

Cesar may have believed he "loved" her - & could not stand the idea that she didn't love him, didn't want to have sex with him, didn't want to have a future with him, etc.

Heck, for all we know he could have had the mindset of "if I can't have you, no one can have you" - & flew into a rage & killed her when he got the information from the investigators that the due date was not what he thought & that there was no way the baby was his. He may have lured Maria to his home, under the pretense of telling her that he now accepted that she didn't want him - but turned on her once she got there.

Good lord, this is the most bizarre case I think I have ever read about. But the worst right now to me is that if some other man is the father, then he sure as heck hasn't dared to show his face to the public. And right now, I can't imagine why he hasn't.

JMO

[strick10]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


Because if she left, they couldn't test the DNA and he would not have any proof? Might he then be "convicted without evidence"?

All I got to say is DAY-UM! [/*]

He can't be convicted w/out evidence. Besides if the evidence was leaving he could've very easily called his SNCOIC/OIC that day and informed them that Maria had purchased a bus ticket and was leaving. I'd be covering my rear and made sure someone knew about it.

[caejde]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


We know he wouldn't be convicted without evidence, but it's what did he know or believe at the time.

Kind of shoots that "MC believed Cesar over Maria" right out of the water, don't you think? [/*]

Makes me wonder about the email to her friend about the pregnancy being a good or bad thing....what would have made it good...if Cesar was or wasn't the father?

[Charlotte]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


Don't know. Unless he's talking about the SW that was called the "incident report" when it was reported that someone in the Laurean house looked at it online?

'Cause I'd bet a southern fried crow tv dinner that ALL of that information, from the "due any day" to the "superior officer" came from Mary Lauterbach.

Me thinks Lindell, although a great guy and provider of scoops, may be reading too much in to it. I mean, we're talking tin foil hat stuff.

JMO [/*]

I'm with you on this one, cryme.

The SW application for Durham's home had the incident/investigation report from the missing person case attached to it.

In that incident/investigation report, Det. Dubois wrote that "According to Mary S. Lauterbach, Maria Lauterbach claimed that she had been raped by a senior officer at her command, and that the investigation had gone sour."

This is the mention of a "superior officer" by a military wife and mother that Lindell is referring to, IMO.

We know that ML's allegations of rape were against CL, so reading something into the "senior" or "superior" officer information that came from Mary L. is indeed tin foil hat stuff on the part of Lindell Kay.

If they haven't even taken DNA from CL yet, there is obviously no result yet from any testing. Lindell's reporting of a "reliable source" who says that there's a "very strong possibility" of paternity being one way or the other with no testing having been done is irresponsible, IMO, as is the statement of being "pretty sure" of who the father is not. Lindell's justifications for believing his "reliable source" on this are pretty weak as well. JMOO

[KKKKKKatie]

Originally posted by Mimi428


Or - Cesar could have believed that Maria WANTED to have sex with him when she didn't.

Cesar could have believed that Maria WANTED to have a relationship with him, when she didn't.

Cesar may have believed he "loved" her - & could not stand the idea that she didn't love him, didn't want to have sex with him, didn't want to have a future with him, etc.

Heck, for all we know he could have had the mindset of "if I can't have you, no one can have you" - & flew into a rage & killed her when he got the information from the investigators that the due date was not what he thought & that there was no way the baby was his. He may have lured Maria to his home, under the pretense of telling her that he now accepted that she didn't want him - but turned on her once she got there.

Good lord, this is the most bizarre case I think I have ever read about. But the worst right now to me is that if some other man is the father, then he sure as heck hasn't dared to show his face to the public. And right now, I can't imagine why he hasn't.

JMO [/*]

ITA mimi...this case is really bizarre!

[caejde]

Originally posted by Mimi428


Or - Cesar could have believed that Maria WANTED to have sex with him when she didn't.

Cesar could have believed that Maria WANTED to have a relationship with him, when she didn't.

Cesar may have believed he "loved" her - & could not stand the idea that she didn't love him, didn't want to have sex with him, didn't want to have a future with him, etc.

Heck, for all we know he could have had the mindset of "if I can't have you, no one can have you" - & flew into a rage & killed her when he got the information from the investigators that the due date was not what he thought & that there was no way the baby was his. He may have lured Maria to his home, under the pretense of telling her that he now accepted that she didn't want him - but turned on her once she got there.

Good lord, this is the most bizarre case I think I have ever read about. But the worst right now to me is that if some other man is the father, then he sure as heck hasn't dared to show his face to the public. And right now, I can't imagine why he hasn't.

JMO [/*]

And what's sad is IF Cesar truly isn't the father...there is a man out there that lost his child.

[KKKKKKatie]

Originally posted by Charlotte


I'm with you on this one, cryme.

The SW application for Durham's home had the incident/investigation report from the missing person case attached to it.

In that incident/investigation report, Det. Dubois wrote that "According to Mary S. Lauterbach, Maria Lauterbach claimed that she had been raped by a senior officer at her command, and that the investigation had gone sour."

This is the mention of a "superior officer" by a military wife and mother that Lindell is referring to, IMO.

We know that ML's allegations of rape were against CL, so reading something into the "senior" or "superior" officer information that came from Mary L. is indeed tin foil hat stuff on the part of Lindell Kay.

If they haven't even taken DNA from CL yet, there is obviously no result yet from any testing. Lindell's reporting of a "reliable source" who says that there's a "very strong possibility" of paternity being one way or the other with no testing having been done is irresponsible, IMO, as is the statement of being "pretty sure" of who the father is not. Lindell's justifications for believing his "reliable source" on this are pretty weak as well. JMOO [/*]

couldn't DNA tests already have been done on the baby using Cearars toothbrush or something?

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by caejde


And what's sad is IF Cesar truly isn't the father...there is a man out there that lost his child. [/*]

So this lead me to feel this man is not wanting to be discovered as being the father. Could he be married?

But I did find it odd that DD attended the funeral and sat right by Mary, instead of Maria's father.

imoo

[strick10]

Originally posted by KKKKKKatie


So who killed her??? LE says that Christine is not guilty. Who else then? [/*]

Katie, there's no telling. Right now everything leads to CAL being the killer but we don't have the whole story yet. LE has said that they believe CSL was not involved in the murder or the burying soooo, that's most probable not the person. I just can't see him killing her for finding out the baby wasn't his, that baby not being his was his ticket out of trouble for the alleged rape. There's alot more that went on IMO.

[hinman]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


WOW!

Somehow I expected this all along.

What in the world was going on?

This is just the weirdest case I have ever seen.

:eek: :eek: :eek: [/*]Holy Moly. I am tasting crow. This case can not get any weirder.

and what do they mean a mix up with superior officer???

Maybe Maria was trying to drop this case. SO many more questions now.

[hinman]

Originally posted by caejde


Makes me wonder about the email to her friend about the pregnancy being a good or bad thing....what would have made it good...if Cesar was or wasn't the father? [/*]I wonder if this could have been solved if DNA was done before that baby was born.

I just have so many questions.

[AmyO]

Originally posted by hinman
Holy Moly. I am tasting crow. This case can not get any weirder.

and what do they mean a mix up with superior officer???

Maybe Maria was trying to drop this case. SO many more questions now. [/*]
Hi Hinman! :seeya: This case is the most bizarre case going right now. It will be fascinating to watch the story unfold. I want a front row seat!! :biggrin:

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by strick10


Katie, there's no telling. Right now everything leads to CAL being the killer but we don't have the whole story yet. LE has said that they believe CSL was not involved in the murder or the burying soooo, that's most probable not the person. I just can't see him killing her for finding out the baby wasn't his, that baby not being his was his ticket out of trouble for the alleged rape. There's alot more that went on IMO. [/*]

LE and the DA have been very specific, strict. They say they do not believe she was involved in the HOMICIDE. They did not comment about the cover up and any assistance she may have given him after the homicide.

imoo

[Janz]

Originally posted by Mimi428


The mind boggles. I'm going to have to find that fainting couch & get in smelling salts for sure if it turns out that Cesar was not the father. I can hardly wrap my mind around the possibility that there is some other guy, somewhere, who was the father of that innocent baby.

The more that is revealed (or just hinted at), the more it appears that Maria was about as 'on your own, deal with everything by yourself' as a person could possibly be.

JMO [/*]

Make room on that fainting couch for me, please.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by AmyO

Hi Hinman! :seeya: This case is the most bizarre case going right now. It will be fascinating to watch the story unfold. I want a front row seat!! :biggrin: [/*]

I actually think it is the most bizarre case I have ever seen in over 25 years of reading and researching crimes.

imoo

[Charlotte]

Originally posted by KKKKKKatie


couldn't DNA tests already have been done on the baby using Cearars toothbrush or something? [/*]

They did obtain personal items like that to use in case CL managed to elude capture for a very long time, but it has been reported that no testing on CL's personal items had been done yet, and that now that he's in custody, they're going to get a sample straight from him instead, IIRC.

[hinman]

I don't understand what they mean about a mix up between a superior officer.

[strick10]

Originally posted by Charlotte


-respectfully snipped-

This is the mention of a "superior officer" by a military wife and mother that Lindell is referring to, IMO.

[/*]

Two things. First Marys name was already on this documentation why not use it again to indicate the info came from her. Second thing, a reservists wife is usually not called a military wife. It is seen that a military wife is a wife of an active duty military member.

Now the original incident report was written by a Navy veteran and he would be able to tell the difference between an enlisted and a superior officer.

[AmyO]

Originally posted by Janz


Make room on that fainting couch for me, please. [/*]
ITA! No wonder she wanted to leave town! That poor girl.

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by caejde


And what's sad is IF Cesar truly isn't the father...there is a man out there that lost his child. [/*]

For real! :(

[hinman]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I actually think it is the most bizarre case I have ever seen in over 25 years of reading and researching crimes.

imoo [/*]Me to GB. I tell you nothing is like I predicted. Sheriff Brown was correct. I don't thinkhe spoke truer words when he said that there are many twist and turns and we all are going to be surprised. :eek:

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by hinman
Holy Moly. I am tasting crow. This case can not get any weirder.

and what do they mean a mix up with superior officer???

Maybe Maria was trying to drop this case. SO many more questions now. [/*]

Hi Hinman!

I trust Lindell's federal inside sources........I find him to be a legitimate reporter.

What a case.:eek: I have way more than 50 questions now. lol

imoo

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by hinman
Holy Moly. I am tasting crow. This case can not get any weirder.

and what do they mean a mix up with superior officer???

Maybe Maria was trying to drop this case. SO many more questions now. [/*]

Good grief, that's all this case needs - another male in the story.

It could help explain the comment Maria made when questioned whether the pregnancy was a good or bad thing - perhaps she was thinking "bad" if Cesar was the father - "good" if someone else. Or vice versa.

Either way, if there is some other guy, I am still wondering why he has not come forward to the public. It sure does not give the appearance that there is some honorable, decent, stand-up guy out there who lost his own child when Maria was murdered.

Egads, I think I need more blood pressure meds about now. Sheesh!

[hinman]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


For real! :( [/*]I do not undestand why this man would not come forward.

Of course maybe he did and we do not know about it.

[KKKKKKatie]

Originally posted by strick10


Katie, there's no telling. Right now everything leads to CAL being the killer but we don't have the whole story yet. LE has said that they believe CSL was not involved in the murder or the burying soooo, that's most probable not the person. I just can't see him killing her for finding out the baby wasn't his, that baby not being his was his ticket out of trouble for the alleged rape. There's alot more that went on IMO. [/*]

I agree strick. I don't see it also. However, she was found in HIS backyard with his, comfortor around her. Who else then?

This drives me crazy hammer

lol

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


Well, if they never had sex and she accused him anyway....I can see where he'd be ripped, especially if she had been telling co-workers or her UVA that the baby was his and only recently backed off from that.

No excuse for murder, mind you...but I can definitely see the rage part.

And if, IF all that's true, Maria had some issues.

Again, big IF [/*]


I am at the point I really don't care what her issues were if any. I don't care who the father is either. I don't care if there were false rape allegations and she is totally insane.

She was murdered by Cesar, and he is the only one responsible for that. Nothing Maria did or was in anyway mitigates what Cesar did. I think the jury will see it that way too.

Victimology will mean nothing to the jury as far as I'm concerned.

All jmo

[Marcia3]

If CAL was not Gabriel's father, then I'm going to lean towards the rape allegation as a cover-up that Maria came up with impulsively to explain away her pregnancy to Mary. It just got out of control quickly once the story was told and Maria had no idea how to regain control, or even if she could.

Why say CAL instead of the real father? Good question. If we knew who the father was, it might answer it, or it might bring up more questions.

[hinman]

Originally posted by Mimi428


Good grief, that's all this case needs - another male in the story.

It could help explain the comment Maria made when questioned whether the pregnancy was a good or bad thing - perhaps she was thinking "bad" if Cesar was the father - "good" if someone else. Or vice versa.

Either way, if there is some other guy, I am still wondering why he has not come forward to the public. It sure does not give the appearance that there is some honorable, decent, stand-up guy out there who lost his own child when Maria was murdered.

Egads, I think I need more blood pressure meds about now. Sheesh! [/*]wow Mimi it does make sense with her comment.
I just never even imagined in a million years that this was the case. Nothing surprises me anymore.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by strick10


But why. A pregnant woman does not have to reveal the identity of the father. What's the catch here? [/*]

I just thought of something........

She reports that the child is not Laurean's On November 5th, right?

When does she move in with DD........wasn't it also in November?

imoo

[Janz]

Originally posted by AmyO

ITA! No wonder she wanted to leave town! That poor girl. [/*]

Lord Have Mercy if this is true!! You could not be more alone than she was!!

[Janz]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Hi Hinman!

I trust Lindell's federal inside sources........I find him to be a legitimate reporter.

What a case.:eek: I have way more than 50 questions now. lol

imoo [/*]

Thanks GB, So you trust Lindell sources?

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I just thought of something........

She reports that the child is not Laurean's On November 5th, right?

When does she move in with DD........wasn't it also in November?

imoo [/*]

:eek: and :eek: again

[Janz]

Originally posted by Squawk Box



I am at the point I really don't care what her issues were if any. I don't care who the father is either. I don't care if there were false rape allegations and she is totally insane.

She was murdered by Cesar, and he is the only one responsible for that. Nothing Maria did or was in anyway mitigates what Cesar did. I think the jury will see it that way too.

Victimology will mean nothing to the jury as far as I'm concerned.

All jmo [/*]

IA

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Marcia3
If CAL was not Gabriel's father, then I'm going to lean towards the rape allegation as a cover-up that Maria came up with impulsively to explain away her pregnancy to Mary. It just got out of control quickly once the story was told and Maria had no idea how to regain control, or even if she could.

Why say CAL instead of the real father? Good question. If we knew who the father was, it might answer it, or it might bring up more questions. [/*]

You are reading my mind, Marcia.

Was it to protect the real father? Would it be even worse if the real father was uncovered? Maybe one having more power and influence than a lowly Corporal.

imoo

[Charlotte]

Originally posted by strick10


Two things. First Marys name was already on this documentation why not use it again to indicate the info came from her. Second thing, a reservists wife is usually not called a military wife. It is seen that a military wife is a wife of an active duty military member.

Now the original incident report was written by a Navy veteran and he would be able to tell the difference between an enlisted and a superior officer. [/*]

1). I don't know why Lindell Kay said "military wife and mother" on his blog, rather than just saying "Mary Lauterbach." Perhaps to give his "bombshell" more credibility?

2). Again, the words "military wife and mother" came from Lindell Kay, not from the incident report.

3). Same as above. Also, the incident report only mentions the "superior officer" referred to by Mary L., and that Officer J. Moore confirmed an open sexual assualt case with the military -- but the identity of the accused, let alone his official rank, was not mentioned, and was not known yet to LE at that time, IMO.

[AmyO]

Originally posted by hinman
I do not undestand why this man would not come forward.

Of course maybe he did and we do not know about it. [/*]
My guess is that the Marine Corps is keeping him from the media. God only knows what the heck is going on inside those walls.

[baywench]

Originally posted by Squawk Box
I've been thinking the DA and LE came out with some information on Christina because they are seeing her bashed so much and know she doesn't deserve it. Maybe trying to help her cope without such bad publicity. I would think by now they see what they said didn't matter at all.

JMO [/*]

Since when has LE been publicity champions?

[AmyO]

Originally posted by KKKKKKatie


I agree strick. I don't see it also. However, she was found in HIS backyard with his, comfortor around her. Who else then?

This drives me crazy hammer

lol [/*]
Good point about the comforter. Another reason why Christina HAD to know Maria was dead on her property. If my comforter was missing, you better believe I'd notice and want to know what the heck was going on! :D

[strick10]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


So this lead me to feel this man is not wanting to be discovered as being the father. Could he be married?

But I did find it odd that DD attended the funeral and sat right by Mary, instead of Maria's father.

imoo [/*]



Oooooooo GB, I was thinking the same thing. DD didn't know Maria that long IAW what's been published. I would find it okay for him to be at the funeral but because he hadn't supposidly known Maria that long I found it odd that he sat up front. Maybe the family found comfort in him being up front? I dunno.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Janz


Thanks GB, So you trust Lindell sources? [/*]

Yes, I do.

imoo:seeya:

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by baywench


Since when has LE been publicity champions? [/*]

They aren't, except when it serves their own purposes, like making a witness look credible and honest to the core...JMO.

[hinman]

Originally posted by Charlotte


1). I don't know why Lindell Kay said "military wife and mother" on his blog, rather than just saying "Mary Lauterbach." Perhaps to give his "bombshell" more credibility?

2). Again, the words "military wife and mother" came from Lindell Kay, not from the incident report.

3). Same as above. Also, the incident report only mentions the "superior officer" referred to by Mary L., and that Officer J. Moore confirmed an open sexual assualt case with the military -- but the identity of the accused, let alone his official rank, was not mentioned, and was not known yet to LE at that time, IMO. [/*]Why would Mary be the one who was relaying info to the Navy officer about Maria's alleged rape. Should that not be Maria.

Since this was the original report.

[strick10]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


LE and the DA have been very specific, strict. They say they do not believe she was involved in the HOMICIDE. They did not comment about the cover up and any assistance she may have given him after the homicide.

imoo [/*]

That's why I wrote "not involved in the murder nor burying" and didn't write nothing else. ;)

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by AmyO

My guess is that the Marine Corps is keeping him from the media. God only knows what the heck is going on inside those walls. [/*]

I think you are correct. I think he most likely is a Marine and has been asked not to discuss the case and if he is married he doesn't want to discuss it anyway imo.

I think someone has been holding their breath a long time.

imoo

[Janz]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Yes, I do.

imoo:seeya: [/*]

I am stunned at this point and don`t know what to think. I do know she was murdered at Cesar` home and disposed of there. What led up to this murder is getting stranger and stranger!!

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by strick10


That's why I wrote "not involved in the murder nor burying" and didn't write nothing else. ;) [/*]


:biggrin: Gotcha! Thanks.

imoo

[Janz]

Originally posted by Marcia3


They aren't, except when it serves their own purposes, like making a witness look credible and honest to the core...JMO. [/*]

Exactly!!

[Charlotte]

Originally posted by hinman
Why would Mary be the one who was relaying info to the Navy officer about Maria's alleged rape. Should that not be Maria.

Since this was the original report. [/*]

Hinman,

I think that Det. Dubois, of OCSD, who wrote the incident/investigation report on the missing person case is the Navy veteran that Lindell Kay was referring to. JMO

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by strick10


Two things. First Marys name was already on this documentation why not use it again to indicate the info came from her. Second thing, a reservists wife is usually not called a military wife. It is seen that a military wife is a wife of an active duty military member.

Now the original incident report was written by a Navy veteran and he would be able to tell the difference between an enlisted and a superior officer. [/*]

I agree a Navy veteran would have known the difference but there's the possibility that Dubois didn't know Laurean's name at the time the SW was applied for. Did the report say that there had been numerous attempts to contact Maria's unit and those calls went unanswered, the investigator got frustrated and spoke to SB?

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by Janz


Lord Have Mercy if this is true!! You could not be more alone than she was!! [/*]

I agree completely. I think that particular aspect, that she was alone, pregnant, with ALL the other issues going on - family wanting her to put the child up for adoption when she may have wanted to keep the baby, etc., etc. - it just breaks my heart.

If we find out that some other guy is the father, but he has made every effort to keep himself from being identified as such, I'm going to have to smack something.

Argh!

:flamemad:

JMO

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Marcia3
If CAL was not Gabriel's father, then I'm going to lean towards the rape allegation as a cover-up that Maria came up with impulsively to explain away her pregnancy to Mary. It just got out of control quickly once the story was told and Maria had no idea how to regain control, or even if she could.

Why say CAL instead of the real father? Good question. If we knew who the father was, it might answer it, or it might bring up more questions. [/*]

But Marcia, why would Maria tell her mother about the rape to cover the pregnancy when she wasn't even pregnant yet?:shrug:

[KKKKKKatie]

Originally posted by AmyO

Good point about the comforter. Another reason why Christina HAD to know Maria was dead on her property. If my comforter was missing, you better believe I'd notice and want to know what the heck was going on! :D [/*]

same here Amy

[hinman]

Originally posted by Charlotte


Hinman,

I think that Det. Dubois, of OCSD, who wrote the incident/investigation report on the missing person case is the Navy veteran that Lindell Kay was referring to. JMO [/*]oh so the incident report is about the missing person case not the rape,

Then my second question is why not go talk to the suprior officer/ not superior since it was a mistake. why wait as long as they did.

[Janz]

Originally posted by Mimi428


I agree completely. I think that particular aspect, that she was alone, pregnant, with ALL the other issues going on - family wanting her to put the child up for adoption when she may have wanted to keep the baby, etc., etc. - it just breaks my heart.

If we find out that some other guy is the father, but he has made every effort to keep himself from being identified as such, I'm going to have to smack something.

Argh!

:flamemad:

JMO [/*]

Yes, and to know she was so brutally bashed in the head, then her remains so horribly disposed of .....WELL, he needs to be found and exposed if this is so. IA :flamemad:

[hinman]

Originally posted by bkwits


But Marcia, why would Maria tell her mother about the rape to cover the pregnancy when she wasn't even pregnant yet?:shrug: [/*]That has been oneof my questions also. That does not make much sense does it and it throws out the whole she told her because she was pregnant thoeru down the drain. She was not pregnant yet.

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by AmyO

Good point about the comforter. Another reason why Christina HAD to know Maria was dead on her property. If my comforter was missing, you better believe I'd notice and want to know what the heck was going on! :D [/*]

IMO, NOT necessarily true (that she "HAD" to know, because of the comforter). But I'm not going to argue the point now; I think we discussed this into the ground about a month ago.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Mimi428


I agree completely. I think that particular aspect, that she was alone, pregnant, with ALL the other issues going on - family wanting her to put the child up for adoption when she may have wanted to keep the baby, etc., etc. - it just breaks my heart.

If we find out that some other guy is the father, but he has made every effort to keep himself from being identified as such, I'm going to have to smack something.

Argh!

:flamemad:

JMO [/*]


Maybe the other guy , if there is one, was a marine now in El Paso. Is there a base near El Paso?

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by bkwits


But Marcia, why would Maria tell her mother about the rape to cover the pregnancy when she wasn't even pregnant yet?:shrug: [/*]

Lawdy.

I'm almost to the point of speechless about this case.

[hinman]

Originally posted by bkwits



Maybe the other guy , if there is one, was a marine now in El Paso. Is there a base near El Paso? [/*]hmm another interesting option.

I am not believing that Durham was the father as some on the other site have suggested.

[Charlotte]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I just thought of something........

She reports that the child is not Laurean's On November 5th, right?

When does she move in with DD........wasn't it also in November?

imoo [/*]

Same day, IIRC. Her request to move off-base had been approved on Oct. 31, and she made the actual move on Nov. 5th.

This was on a day that she was also interviewed again by MC trial counsel, and said what she did about the paternity.

What do you think the significance of it is?

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


You are reading my mind, Marcia.

Was it to protect the real father? Would it be even worse if the real father was uncovered? Maybe one having more power and influence than a lowly Corporal.

imoo [/*]

And was the real father a rapist, or was it a relationship? Was the fear borne from Maria's knowledge that the father was married and an officer?

:shrug:

[KKKKKKatie]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


IMO, NOT necessarily true (that she "HAD" to know, because of the comforter). But I'm not going to argue the point now; I think we discussed this into the ground about a month ago. [/*]

it was....I was only saying that "I" would know it was missing

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by bkwits


But Marcia, why would Maria tell her mother about the rape to cover the pregnancy when she wasn't even pregnant yet?:shrug: [/*]

Maybe she knew she was pregnant? She didn't tell her mother until a month after the alleged assault, so it's possible.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by Squawk Box



I am at the point I really don't care what her issues were if any. I don't care who the father is either. I don't care if there were false rape allegations and she is totally insane.

She was murdered by Cesar, and he is the only one responsible for that. Nothing Maria did or was in anyway mitigates what Cesar did. I think the jury will see it that way too.

Victimology will mean nothing to the jury as far as I'm concerned.

All jmo [/*]

Oh, cool your jets, SB. Nobody said anything about victimology.

And nobody's excusing a murder. But this did not happen in a vacuum and the last I heard, we were free to discuss every aspect of this case.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by bkwits



Maybe the other guy , if there is one, was a marine now in El Paso. Is there a base near El Paso? [/*]

Ft. Bliss is in El Paso, but that is an Army post.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Marcia3


Maybe she knew she was pregnant? She didn't tell her mother until a month after the alleged assault, so it's possible. [/*]

I do think Maria thought she was pregnant when she told her mom about the rape.

imoo

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I do think Maria thought she was pregnant when she told her mom about the rape.

imoo [/*]

I've always thought that...and it breaks my heart to think that anyone would feel like they needed to make up a story to cover the fact that they had been sexually active, if that's what happened.

[Janz]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


Oh, cool your jets, SB. Nobody said anything about victimology.

And nobody's excusing a murder. But this did not happen in a vacuum and the last I heard, we were free to discuss every aspect of this case. [/*]

Yes, this new bombshell has to fit in somewhere! Where better to discuss it than here??

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by Marcia3


Maybe she knew she was pregnant? She didn't tell her mother until a month after the alleged assault, so it's possible. [/*]

What a convoluted mess.

First we have the theories that Maria said she was raped because she would not admit to her mother that she was having consensual sex.

Then we have the theories that Maria had an 'affair' with Cesar - even after she reported her rape allegations to the USMC.

So many folks have been completely convinced that the conception date was around the middle of May - and IF that is so, she surely was not pregnant when she told her mother of the rapes.

I'm still reeling just trying to absorb all the possibilities.

JMO

[Janz]

Originally posted by Marcia3


I've always thought that...and it breaks my heart to think that anyone would feel like they needed to make up a story to cover the fact that they had been sexually active, if that's what happened. [/*]

I A, as I think this is more than likely what was happening with Maria. Would not be the first time, this is the case with young girls.

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by Mimi428


What a convoluted mess.

First we have the theories that Maria said she was raped because she would not admit to her mother that she was having consensual sex.

Then we have the theories that Maria had an 'affair' with Cesar - even after she reported her rape allegations to the USMC.

So many folks have been completely convinced that the conception date was around the middle of May - and IF that is so, she surely was not pregnant when she told her mother of the rapes.

I'm still reeling just trying to absorb all the possibilities.

JMO [/*]

ITA, twists and turns indeed!

I need a flow chart and a huge wall to hang it on!

[bkwits]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


IMO, NOT necessarily true (that she "HAD" to know, because of the comforter). But I'm not going to argue the point now; I think we discussed this into the ground about a month ago. [/*]


FWIW, I always kept old comforters and blankets to use as pads for moving furniture or camping or whatever. They were usually in the garage. IMO

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by Mimi428


What a convoluted mess.

First we have the theories that Maria said she was raped because she would not admit to her mother that she was having consensual sex.

Then we have the theories that Maria had an 'affair' with Cesar - even after she reported her rape allegations to the USMC.

So many folks have been completely convinced that the conception date was around the middle of May - and IF that is so, she surely was not pregnant when she told her mother of the rapes.

I'm still reeling just trying to absorb all the possibilities.

JMO [/*]

Well, not wanting to start WWIII, but Jenny did tell us that she (Maria) found out Cesar was married in May, right before she reported the "rape".

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


Oh, cool your jets, SB. Nobody said anything about victimology.

And nobody's excusing a murder. But this did not happen in a vacuum and the last I heard, we were free to discuss every aspect of this case. [/*]

Discuss away. No problem there. I gave my thoughts just like everyone else.

My opinion is Cesar is going down for this no matter what. That's all.

jmo

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by Janz


I A, as I think this is more than likely what was happening with Maria. Would not be the first time, this is the case with young girls. [/*]

Absolutely. Most young women wouldn't share the intimate details of their love life with their mom. I never did, my DD's certainly don't, and yet I think some things were assumed by my parents. The biggest assumption they made was that I would be a virgin when I married...mostly from a religious belief that premarital sex is a sin. IMO this was the case with the Lauterbach family.

Just guessing, of course.

[AmyO]

Originally posted by bkwits



FWIW, I always kept old comforters and blankets to use as pads for moving furniture or camping or whatever. They were usually in the garage. IMO [/*]
That's true. I do too. There I go again "assuming" it was the one off their bed! I missed all the discussion a month ago about Christina's knowing or not knowing about Maria's murder. But from what I understand, no one knows her timeline except for LE and we don't even know if she took and/or passed a polygraph. She's still open game as far as I'm concerned. It is a very real possibility that she really ISN'T involved - at all, but until I hear the whole story, I'm not counting her out just yet. :)

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by bkwits



FWIW, I always kept old comforters and blankets to use as pads for moving furniture or camping or whatever. They were usually in the garage. IMO [/*]

I do the exact same thing. Was looking for one a couple of months ago in the garage, didn't know my S/O had put it in the trunk of his car because they were moving stuff around at work & he was using it for padding.

I'm guessing that the comforter in question wasn't yanked off the bed in the house, but who knows?

JMO

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Janz


I A, as I think this is more than likely what was happening with Maria. Would not be the first time, this is the case with young girls. [/*]


Maria was not a young girl. She was a young woman Marine. She was not all that weak and vulnerable or she would not have made it through boot camp and become a "solid Marine."

Why would she make up a story about rape, if she wasn't pregnant?

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by Mimi428


What a convoluted mess.

First we have the theories that Maria said she was raped because she would not admit to her mother that she was having consensual sex.

Then we have the theories that Maria had an 'affair' with Cesar - even after she reported her rape allegations to the USMC.

So many folks have been completely convinced that the conception date was around the middle of May - and IF that is so, she surely was not pregnant when she told her mother of the rapes.

I'm still reeling just trying to absorb all the possibilities.

JMO [/*]

Me too. Maybe that is all the twists and turns in the case. Speculation. jmo

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


Well, not wanting to start WWIII, but Jenny did tell us that she (Maria) found out Cesar was married in May, right before she reported the "rape". [/*]

LOL on WWIII.

Yep, she did tell us that, and if we believe her (and I'm not saying I do or I don't), then that might be the reason behind the rape allegation.

I need to lie down for a while. They frown on that here at the office...:biggrin:

[Janz]

Originally posted by Marcia3


Absolutely. Most young women wouldn't share the intimate details of their love life with their mom. I never did, my DD's certainly don't, and yet I think some things were assumed by my parents. The biggest assumption they made was that I would be a virgin when I married...mostly from a religious belief that premarital sex is a sin. IMO this was the case with the Lauterbach family.

Just guessing, of course. [/*]

Yes, Some of my dearest friends are Catholic and this is so!! Maria must have been greatly conflicted about this issue. We, also have not been told of her thoughts and issues about her bio parents and she and her sister being told they were "abandoned'.

I, at this point, have not the slightest theory about why the murder!!

[Janz]

Originally posted by bkwits



Maria was not a young girl. She was a young woman Marine. She was not all that weak and vulnerable or she would not have made it through boot camp and become a "solid Marine."

Why would she make up a story about rape, if she wasn't pregnant? [/*]

I do not know bkwits! This is the strangest case I have ever seen! I have been around since long before OJ and have never seen anything like this!!

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by Janz


I do not know bkwits! This is the strangest case I have ever seen! I have been around since long before OJ and have never seen anything like this!! [/*]

100% ditto.

The OJ case was what REALLY got me totally hooked on crime/trial watching, and I haven't quit yet.....I've been immersed in MANY MANY cases since then. But yup, this one takes the cake.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by bkwits



Maria was not a young girl. She was a young woman Marine. She was not all that weak and vulnerable or she would not have made it through boot camp and become a "solid Marine."

Why would she make up a story about rape, if she wasn't pregnant? [/*]

Exactly. If she was not pregnant, she had no reason whatsoever to 'make up a rape story' to cover up the fact that she had been having consensual sex & was pg as a result of it.

That particular theory has always seemed way too 1950's for me, but that's JMO.

Meanwhile, I hope Cesar is about as miserable as he can be today, sitting in that Mexican jail. . .

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


100% ditto.

The OJ case was what REALLY got me totally hooked on crime/trial watching, and I haven't quit yet.....I've been immersed in MANY MANY cases since then. But yup, this one takes the cake. [/*]

I've been interested in crime and trials since I was 10 years old, so put me down for 42 years of watching cases unfold! The first case that caught my attention was a multiple murder that included a young husband and wife and their 4 year old daughter! I was hooked...and the crime was never officially solved.

At any rate, this case has me stymied like no other I've ever followed. Completely confused and concerned that we might never know the real story...:shrug:

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by Marcia3


I've been interested in crime and trials since I was 10 years old, so put me down for 42 years of watching cases unfold! The first case that caught my attention was a multiple murder that included a young husband and wife and their 4 year old daughter! I was hooked...and the crime was never officially solved.

At any rate, this case has me stymied like no other I've ever followed. Completely confused and concerned that we might never know the real story...:shrug: [/*]

Marcia, I have faith we WILL know the real story someday. I honestly do.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


Discuss away. No problem there. I gave my thoughts just like everyone else.

My opinion is Cesar is going down for this no matter what. That's all.

jmo [/*]


Right on Squawk :beer:

As far as the trial, it doesn't really matter if the baby was his or not. I have thought from the beginning that he was probably obsessed with Maria (not the other way round as some posters seem to think). The reason that I thought this is in this type of murder, it seems to be usually a boyfriend, stalker admirer, or dumped lover. JMO

I still can't figure out El Paso though. :shrug:

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by Mimi428


Exactly. If she was not pregnant, she had no reason whatsoever to 'make up a rape story' to cover up the fact that she had been having consensual sex & was pg as a result of it.

That particular theory has always seemed way too 1950's for me, but that's JMO.

Meanwhile, I hope Cesar is about as miserable as he can be today, sitting in that Mexican jail. . . [/*]

While I find it sad that anyone would feel the need to make up such a story to cover their sexual reality, it actually rings true for me. I grew up in a very strict and religious family. Premarital sex was absolutely one of the sins you just didn't commit in my family. Period.

I'm quite a bit older than Maria, but probably close to the same age as Mary Lauterbach. Just a hunch on my part that there was a lot of assuming going on that Maria was not sexually active. Maybe Maria also did some assuming that Mary and Victor would be deeply dissappointed in her if they found out that she was sexually active, whether that was true or not.

JMO of course.

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


Marcia, I have faith we WILL know the real story someday. I honestly do. [/*]

From your lips to God's ear!

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by Mimi428


Exactly. If she was not pregnant, she had no reason whatsoever to 'make up a rape story' to cover up the fact that she had been having consensual sex & was pg as a result of it.

That particular theory has always seemed way too 1950's for me, but that's JMO.

Meanwhile, I hope Cesar is about as miserable as he can be today, sitting in that Mexican jail. . . [/*]

Yes, but....

If Cesar and Maria had unprotected sex and she only worried about being pregnant after she finds out he's married.... (IMO) she needed a cover story just in case she was pregnant. Not so 1950's for a girl raised in what Mary herself described as a "deeply religious", "strict Catholic" family.

[Kim]

cant stick around but food for thought...why has nobody came forward until now to mention the possibility of another man? A few came forward to mention the relationship she had with cesar (which was illegal) but why not this other person?
What I am saying is enough new about the "secret affair" why not this other one.seems somebody would have come forward.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Mimi428


Exactly. If she was not pregnant, she had no reason whatsoever to 'make up a rape story' to cover up the fact that she had been having consensual sex & was pg as a result of it.

That particular theory has always seemed way too 1950's for me, but that's JMO.

Meanwhile, I hope Cesar is about as miserable as he can be today, sitting in that Mexican jail. . . [/*]

I read a statistic yesterday that 45% of all births in the US are to unwed mothers. I think that was last year.

I don't see how Mary L. could have been that shocked that her 20 year old daughter, independent and living on her own, was sexually active. Mary L. works at a college and has other teenage daughters, I don't think she lives in a dream world. IMO

[sunstar]

Originally posted by nuttintodo
Well Lindell Kay has just dropped a bombshell over at Off the Cuff....

http://www.onslowcrime.encblogs.com [/*]
Hi nuttin :seeya: and thanks for the latest update!! Wow ~ so if he isn't the father, what is going on here? Was she really raped by CL, or someone else, and if not CL, why did she say it was him? And if CL isn't the baby father, I wonder did Maria tell him that? Totally confusing!

[bkwits]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


Yes, but....

If Cesar and Maria had unprotected sex and she only worried about being pregnant after she finds out he's married.... (IMO) she needed a cover story just in case she was pregnant. Not so 1950's for a girl raised in what Mary herself described as a "deeply religious", "strict Catholic" family. [/*]


Boy, that's a stretch. IMO. Maria knew he was married, at least before the April encounter. Why is it so hard to believe that Cesar forced Maria to have sex with him? He obviously isn't a nice guy. Why cling to the belief that Maria lied about the rape?

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by bkwits

. . . I have thought from the beginning that he was probably obsessed with Maria (not the other way round as some posters seem to think). The reason that I thought this is in this type of murder, it seems to be usually a boyfriend, stalker admirer, or dumped lover. JMO

[/*]

<snipped>

ITA. We have all seen or heard about a whole lot of cases where the murderer can't stand the thought of the victim moving on without them, going on with life, leaving them, etc.

So far we have a reporter asking Cesar if he murdered Maria & his answer was "I loved her". Then we have Cesar's cryptic one-word answer of "proof" when asked if he had anything to say. I am beginning to wonder how delusional or rational he is going to sound if/when he ever starts speaking more.

JMO

[KKKKKKatie]

Originally posted by bkwits



Maria was not a young girl. She was a young woman Marine. She was not all that weak and vulnerable or she would not have made it through boot camp and become a "solid Marine."

Why would she make up a story about rape, if she wasn't pregnant? [/*]

you are right about the Marine part...but IMO as a Mom and a daughter when with my mom I can still be a little girl and so can my daughter with me....and I'm 60 :biggrin:

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by bkwits


I read a statistic yesterday that 45% of all births in the US are to unwed mothers. I think that was last year.

I don't see how Mary L. could have been that shocked that her 20 year old daughter, independent and living on her own, was sexually active. Mary L. works at a college and has other teenage daughters, I don't think she lives in a dream world. IMO [/*]

No, she doesn't live in a dream world. However, this is a mother whose other (younger than Maria) unmarried daughter had given birth shortly before Maria reported being raped to her mother.

We do not know what Mary's reaction was to the sister's pregnancy, but IMO and IMO only, it may not have been such....welcome news. Again, this is only my opinion. I do think this is possible because of Mary (reportedly) wanting or insisting that Maria give up her baby for adoption.

To have not one, but two unmarried daughters pregnant within a year of each other might have been a lot for a "strict" Catholic or "deeply religious" mother to take in.

Again, my jmo.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by bkwits



Right on Squawk :beer:

As far as the trial, it doesn't really matter if the baby was his or not. I have thought from the beginning that he was probably obsessed with Maria (not the other way round as some posters seem to think). The reason that I thought this is in this type of murder, it seems to be usually a boyfriend, stalker admirer, or dumped lover. JMO

I still can't figure out El Paso though. :shrug: [/*]

It was just posted here there is an Army base near there, Ft. Bliss. I wonder how far away a Marine base is from there. She could have had a friend in the Army she was going to stay with. Just guessing.
jmo

[baywench]

Originally posted by bkwits


But Marcia, why would Maria tell her mother about the rape to cover the pregnancy when she wasn't even pregnant yet?:shrug: [/*]

I think she was extremely angry with him that day. I believe that's what started the whole rape allegation. IMO

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by bkwits



Boy, that's a stretch. IMO. Maria knew he was married, at least before the April encounter. Why is it so hard to believe that Cesar forced Maria to have sex with him? He obviously isn't a nice guy. Why cling to the belief that Maria lied about the rape? [/*]

I'm not clinging to anything nor did I ever say Cesar was a nice guy.

The question was raised as to why Maria would need to lie about having sex and my answer was what it was and clearly stated as my opinion.

[baywench]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


Oh, cool your jets, SB. Nobody said anything about victimology.

And nobody's excusing a murder. But this did not happen in a vacuum and the last I heard, we were free to discuss every aspect of this case. [/*]

Although you have finally decided you don't care about the victimology it is now and has always been a huge part of this case. JMO

[bkwits]

Originally posted by KKKKKKatie


you are right about the Marine part...but IMO as a Mom and a daughter when with my mom I can still be a little girl and so can my daughter with me....and I'm 60 :biggrin: [/*]

But, why make up a story about being raped is she was not pregnant?

Why refuse to believe the obvious...that the killer had raped Maria. I just don't understand that and never have on this board.:confused:

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by Marcia3


While I find it sad that anyone would feel the need to make up such a story to cover their sexual reality, it actually rings true for me. I grew up in a very strict and religious family. Premarital sex was absolutely one of the sins you just didn't commit in my family. Period.

I'm quite a bit older than Maria, but probably close to the same age as Mary Lauterbach. Just a hunch on my part that there was a lot of assuming going on that Maria was not sexually active. Maybe Maria also did some assuming that Mary and Victor would be deeply dissappointed in her if they found out that she was sexually active, whether that was true or not.

JMO of course. [/*]

I am a little bit older than you are & I have a slew of Catholic relatives on my dad's side of the family. For my cousins, those close to my age, I can definitely relate to that mindset being present in our parents, back in the day.

Now today, the same cousins in my age group, the people who were also raised with the idea of no, no, no premarital sex - each & every one of them (who have children of their own) have had at least one kid or another who has lived without benefit of marriage with a partner. At least 3 of my cousins' children have had children w/o the benefit of marriage.

I really do think that even the most devout Catholics today are not nearly so possessed with a mindset of "perish the thought" when it comes to their children having premarital sex. Back then, if WE had gotten pg before marriage - our parents could rightly say it was an embarrassment, what would the neighbors say, etc. Today, everyone seems to know someone in the same, exact situation.

I have no doubt that the Lauterbach family is strong in their religious beliefs, but considering the world we live in now - PLUS the fact that Mary Lauterbach worked at a college - I just can't embrace the idea that she would fall over in shame & embarrassment (like my aunts & uncles would have way back when) if she knew any of her children had sex prior to marriage.

Anyway, it's all JMO. Maybe someday we will know more about what really was on their minds.

[baywench]

Originally posted by bkwits


But, why make up a story about being raped is she was not pregnant?

Why refuse to believe the obvious...that the killer had raped Maria. I just don't understand that and never have on this board.:confused: [/*]

One of the thoughts I have always had Bk is that she was angry with him, maybe he had said he would not leave his wife but couldn't tell her mother that she had just had a fight with her married boyfriend???? JMO

[Janz]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


Marcia, I have faith we WILL know the real story someday. I honestly do. [/*]

I so hope you are right!!

[baywench]

Originally posted by baywench


Although you have finally decided you don't care about the victimology it is now and has always been a huge part of this case. JMO [/*]

Cryme, I quoted the wrong person on the victimology that was for SB.:(

[KKKKKKatie]

Originally posted by bkwits


But, why make up a story about being raped is she was not pregnant?

Why refuse to believe the obvious...that the killer had raped Maria. I just don't understand that and never have on this board.:confused: [/*]

Have we heard conclusively her conception date? IIRC there have been several thrown about....so who knows :shrug:

IMO nothing is "obvious" in this case

[bkwits]

Originally posted by baywench


I think she was extremely angry with him that day. I believe that's what started the whole rape allegation. IMO [/*]




Oh, I believe Maria was angry with Cesar on that day and many other days. Who wouldn't be?
:shrug:

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by bkwits


But, why make up a story about being raped is she was not pregnant?

Why refuse to believe the obvious...that the killer had raped Maria. I just don't understand that and never have on this board.:confused: [/*]

I agree. She didn't even know she was pregnant until the end of July. IIRC Maria just thought she was ill.

She told her mother she was raped before she found out she was pregnant. Makes no sense to me.

Right there is a so called mysterious twist and turn compliments of this board.

JMO

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by Mimi428


I am a little bit older than you are & I have a slew of Catholic relatives on my dad's side of the family. For my cousins, those close to my age, I can definitely relate to that mindset being present in our parents, back in the day.

Now today, the same cousins in my age group, the people who were also raised with the idea of no, no, no premarital sex - each & every one of them (who have children of their own) have had at least one kid or another who has lived without benefit of marriage with a partner. At least 3 of my cousins' children have had children w/o the benefit of marriage.

I really do think that even the most devout Catholics today are not nearly so possessed with a mindset of "perish the thought" when it comes to their children having premarital sex. Back then, if WE had gotten pg before marriage - our parents could rightly say it was an embarrassment, what would the neighbors say, etc. Today, everyone seems to know someone in the same, exact situation.

I have no doubt that the Lauterbach family is strong in their religious beliefs, but considering the world we live in now - PLUS the fact that Mary Lauterbach worked at a college - I just can't embrace the idea that she would fall over in shame & embarrassment (like my aunts & uncles would have way back when) if she knew any of her children had sex prior to marriage.

Anyway, it's all JMO. Maybe someday we will know more about what really was on their minds. [/*]

I see your point. Maria may have been projecting Mary's reaction to the idea that she was sexually active. Mary certainly doesn't appear to live an isolated life with no idea of what goes on in the real world.

I hope you're right, and we do find out what really happened to make such a mess of so many lives, and ultimately lead to the death of two people who so deserved to live.

[sunstar]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I do think Maria thought she was pregnant when she told her mom about the rape.

imoo [/*]
I agree with you, and she'd found out CL was married so there wasn't any hope of marrying him, so the "rape" allegations began. I know that years ago the church was opposed to birth control such as the pill, and so forth, and wondered if it's the same now?

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


I agree. She didn't even know she was pregnant until the end of July. IIRC Maria just thought she was ill.

She told her mother she was raped before she found out she was pregnant. Makes no sense to me.

Right there is a so called mysterious twist and turn compliments of this board.

JMO [/*]

Wow, that date is WAY off.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by KKKKKKatie


Have we heard conclusively her conception date? IIRC there have been several thrown about....so who knows :shrug:

IMO nothing is "obvious" in this case [/*]

Actually, quite a bit is "obvious" in this case.

It is obvious that Maria was killed.

It is obvious that a viable fetus was killed.

It is obvious that Cesar killed Maria and the baby or had a big part in it.

It is obvious that Cesar buried her in the pit (or dug the pit at least).

It is obvious that Cesar had bonfires over the bodies.

It is obvious that Cesar ran away when he saw LE closing in on his house.

It is more or less obvious that Maria was killed in the Laurean house.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by bkwits



Maria was not a young girl. She was a young woman Marine. She was not all that weak and vulnerable or she would not have made it through boot camp and become a "solid Marine."

Why would she make up a story about rape, if she wasn't pregnant? [/*]

Just because she was an outwardly solid Marine does not mean inwardly she was strong at all. Some men and women both try to portray themselves as a tough Marine yet struggle to be inwardly strong.

We have no idea why she would do that just like we have no idea why she would make up an outlandish story that her father had killed her little brother with a lamp.:shrug:

imoo

[Ionmhainn]

I guess I'm just not seeing this as a "bombshell"...the media always reported the "superior officer" thing, but I always put it down to meaning "superior in rank." Actually, it sounds more like the way it would be described by LE...everybody's an "officer."

I also see nothing strange about DD sitting next to Mrs. Lauterbach at the church service. He did contact the family after all, and they were probably grateful for the help he extended to Maria.
jmo

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by Marcia3


Wow, that date is WAY off. [/*]

How so? When did she tell Mary she was raped and when did she find out she was pregnant?

[AmyO]

Originally posted by KKKKKKatie


you are right about the Marine part...but IMO as a Mom and a daughter when with my mom I can still be a little girl and so can my daughter with me....and I'm 60 :biggrin: [/*]
Isn't that wild how that works?! I'm almost 50 and still feel like a teenager when I'm with my mom. HA!

[strick10]

Originally posted by bkwits



Maybe the other guy , if there is one, was a marine now in El Paso. Is there a base near El Paso? [/*]

I'm a day late and a dollar short in answering this bkwits....but there are Marines (used to be called Red Eyes not sure if that's still what they go by) are stationed at Ft. Bliss in El Paso. There is also a reserve unit there.

[KKKKKKatie]

Originally posted by bkwits


Actually, quite a bit is "obvious" in this case.

It is obvious that Maria was killed.

It is obvious that a viable fetus was killed.

It is obvious that Cesar killed Maria and the baby or had a big part in it.

It is obvious that Cesar buried her in the pit (or dug the pit at least).

It is obvious that Cesar had bonfires over the bodies.

It is obvious that Cesar ran away when he saw LE closing in on his house.

It is more or less obvious that Maria was killed in the Laurean house. [/*]

not trying to be argumentative bk but what is obvious to you isn't to everyone. The obvious is your opinion

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by bkwits


But, why make up a story about being raped is she was not pregnant?

Why refuse to believe the obvious...that the killer had raped Maria. I just don't understand that and never have on this board.:confused: [/*]

There is nothing even proving a rape did indeed happen. Just because she made allegations doesn't make it true.......just ask the Duke Lacrosse players.

imoo

[KKKKKKatie]

Originally posted by AmyO

Isn't that wild how that works?! I'm almost 50 and still feel like a teenager when I'm with my mom. HA! [/*]

yep...I still watch what I say and do so I won't get "the look" LOL

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by strick10


I'm a day late and a dollar short in answering this bkwits....but there are Marines (used to be called Red Eyes not sure if that's still what they go by) are stationed at Ft. Bliss in El Paso. There is also a reserve unit there. [/*]


I'm thinking that is her connection to El Paso. Thanks Strick.

[sunstar]

Originally posted by strick10


I'm a day late and a dollar short in answering this bkwits....but there are Marines (used to be called Red Eyes not sure if that's still what they go by) are stationed at Ft. Bliss in El Paso. There is also a reserve unit there. [/*]
I still can't figure out what Maria would've gained by leaving the Marines (AWOL) before the baby was born. Wouldn't she lose her medical benefits?

[bkwits]

Originally posted by baywench


One of the thoughts I have always had Bk is that she was angry with him, maybe he had said he would not leave his wife but couldn't tell her mother that she had just had a fight with her married boyfriend???? JMO [/*]


Here's what I can't understand. Maria and her unborn baby were murdered (I think most if not all agree on that). The murderer is most likely Cesar. The man who Maria said had raped her. Why is it so difficult to believe he raped her? Why do posters think Maria lied about it. I see no reason to think she lied. :shrug:

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


There is nothing even proving a rape did indeed happen. Just because she made allegations doesn't make it true.......just ask the Duke Lacrosse players.

imoo [/*]

This is the Maria Lauterbach board not the Duke board. Why do you keep bringing up another case? There is no connection. It is no where near the same.

jmo

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


How so? When did she tell Mary she was raped and when did she find out she was pregnant? [/*]


Mary Lauterbach was strolling out of Wal-Mart on May 10 when her cell phone rang......"Mom, I was attacked."....."Maria, when did that happen?" her mother asked....."April 10."

http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2008/01/20/ddn012008mariainside.html



On May 11th, 2007, LCpl Lauterbach confides in her Officer-in-Charge two incidents of a sexual nature with Cpl Laurean. After some initial discussions, the command’s Uniform Victim Advocate meets with LCpl Lauterbach and explains the Victim Advocate Program to her. The UVA takes LCpl Lauterbach to the Naval Criminal Investigative Service office aboard Camp Lejeune to file a formal complaint. LCpl Lauterbach reports to NCIS an alleged sexual encounter with Cpl Laurean on March 26, 2007, and a second encounter approximately two weeks later. LCpl Lauterbach alleged she had been raped by Cpl Laurean. The command’s UVA accompanies LCpl Lauterbach to the medical department for a medical exam. Due to the length of time that elapsed between the alleged assault and the complaint, a forensic examination, or rape kit, is not performed. However, a “Well Woman” exam is performed to include a pregnancy test. The pregnancy test result is negative.

NCIS opens a rape investigation.


On June 27th, 2007, LCpl Lauterbach is ill and seeks medical attention. She is administered a pregnancy test. The result of the test is positive with medical personnel estimating the conception date as 14 May 2007. LCpl Lauterbach’s UVA calls NCIS to report the pregnancy. LCpl Lauterbach goes to NCIS to make a statement regarding her pregnancy and belief that Cpl Laurean is the father as a result of the alleged rape.

http://www.nbc17.com/midatlantic/ncn/search.apx.-content-articles-NCN-2008-01-15-0028.html

[bkwits]

Originally posted by sunstar

I still can't figure out what Maria would've gained by leaving the Marines (AWOL) before the baby was born. Wouldn't she lose her medical benefits? [/*]


Boy, that's a real puzzlement. I cannot think of a reason, either. There are just some big pieces of this puzzle that we don't have. IMO

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


This is the Maria Lauterbach board not the Duke board. Why do you keep bringing up another case? There is no connection. It is no where near the same.

jmo [/*]

Yes, there is a connection.

Allegations are proof of nothing.

imoo

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


It was just posted here there is an Army base near there, Ft. Bliss. I wonder how far away a Marine base is from there. She could have had a friend in the Army she was going to stay with. Just guessing.
jmo [/*]

North Carolina not only has Camp Lejeune, a Marine base - it also has Ft. Bragg, an Army post. It's a bit over 100 miles between the two.

So - I suppose it is possible that she may have met a GI from Ft. Bragg in NC, who was transferred to Ft. Bliss in El Paso.

So many mysteries & oddities in all of this. . .

JMO

[AmyO]

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny



Mary Lauterbach was strolling out of Wal-Mart on May 10 when her cell phone rang......"Mom, I was attacked."....."Maria, when did that happen?" her mother asked....."April 10."

http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2008/01/20/ddn012008mariainside.html



On May 11th, 2007, LCpl Lauterbach confides in her Officer-in-Charge two incidents of a sexual nature with Cpl Laurean. After some initial discussions, the command’s Uniform Victim Advocate meets with LCpl Lauterbach and explains the Victim Advocate Program to her. The UVA takes LCpl Lauterbach to the Naval Criminal Investigative Service office aboard Camp Lejeune to file a formal complaint. LCpl Lauterbach reports to NCIS an alleged sexual encounter with Cpl Laurean on March 26, 2007, and a second encounter approximately two weeks later. LCpl Lauterbach alleged she had been raped by Cpl Laurean. The command’s UVA accompanies LCpl Lauterbach to the medical department for a medical exam. Due to the length of time that elapsed between the alleged assault and the complaint, a forensic examination, or rape kit, is not performed. However, a “Well Woman” exam is performed to include a pregnancy test. The pregnancy test result is negative.

NCIS opens a rape investigation.


On June 27th, 2007, LCpl Lauterbach is ill and seeks medical attention. She is administered a pregnancy test. The result of the test is positive with medical personnel estimating the conception date as 14 May 2007. LCpl Lauterbach’s UVA calls NCIS to report the pregnancy. LCpl Lauterbach goes to NCIS to make a statement regarding her pregnancy and belief that Cpl Laurean is the father as a result of the alleged rape.

http://www.nbc17.com/midatlantic/ncn/search.apx.-content-articles-NCN-2008-01-15-0028.html [/*]
Thanks Lynn! Has anyone told you yet today that you ROCK? If not, there ya go!
:D

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by Marcia3


Wow, that date is WAY off. [/*]

When she vacationed at her parents' home in Vandalia in mid-June, Maria came down with what appeared to be the flu. She learned why after she returned to Camp Lejeune.
"Mom, I'm pregnant," she told Mary in a phone call.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/story/content/oh/story/news/local/2008/01/20/ddn012008mariainside.html?cxntlid=inform


Maria found out she was pregnant on June 27th. NH estimated the conception date as May 14th.

http://www.jdnews.com/articles/map_54317___article.html/_.html

Maria called home and told her mother she was pregnant but no date is given. Again the DDN article is the link to this.

But one thing is a definite, Maria found out before the end of July that she was in fact pregnant.

jmoo

[Janz]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Just because she was an outwardly solid Marine does not mean inwardly she was strong at all. Some men and women both try to portray themselves as a tough Marine yet struggle to be inwardly strong.

We have no idea why she would do that just like we have no idea why she would make up an outlandish story that her father had killed her little brother with a lamp.:shrug:

imoo [/*]

Yes, I can see that!! I wonder, if she had even the slightest idea while at that ATM machine she would be in for the 'struggle of her very life........???

[bkwits]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


There is nothing even proving a rape did indeed happen. Just because she made allegations doesn't make it true.......just ask the Duke Lacrosse players.

imoo [/*]

I didn't follow that case, but no one got murdered did they?

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny



Mary Lauterbach was strolling out of Wal-Mart on May 10 when her cell phone rang......"Mom, I was attacked."....."Maria, when did that happen?" her mother asked....."April 10."

http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2008/01/20/ddn012008mariainside.html



On May 11th, 2007, LCpl Lauterbach confides in her Officer-in-Charge two incidents of a sexual nature with Cpl Laurean. After some initial discussions, the command’s Uniform Victim Advocate meets with LCpl Lauterbach and explains the Victim Advocate Program to her. The UVA takes LCpl Lauterbach to the Naval Criminal Investigative Service office aboard Camp Lejeune to file a formal complaint. LCpl Lauterbach reports to NCIS an alleged sexual encounter with Cpl Laurean on March 26, 2007, and a second encounter approximately two weeks later. LCpl Lauterbach alleged she had been raped by Cpl Laurean. The command’s UVA accompanies LCpl Lauterbach to the medical department for a medical exam. Due to the length of time that elapsed between the alleged assault and the complaint, a forensic examination, or rape kit, is not performed. However, a “Well Woman” exam is performed to include a pregnancy test. The pregnancy test result is negative.

NCIS opens a rape investigation.


On June 27th, 2007, LCpl Lauterbach is ill and seeks medical attention. She is administered a pregnancy test. The result of the test is positive with medical personnel estimating the conception date as 14 May 2007. LCpl Lauterbach’s UVA calls NCIS to report the pregnancy. LCpl Lauterbach goes to NCIS to make a statement regarding her pregnancy and belief that Cpl Laurean is the father as a result of the alleged rape.

http://www.nbc17.com/midatlantic/ncn/search.apx.-content-articles-NCN-2008-01-15-0028.html [/*]


Thank you Lynn.:rose:

Here is proof Maria DID NOT tell her mother she was raped because she was pregnant. I said July by mistake.

jmo

[AmyO]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


When she vacationed at her parents' home in Vandalia in mid-June, Maria came down with what appeared to be the flu. She learned why after she returned to Camp Lejeune.
"Mom, I'm pregnant," she told Mary in a phone call.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/story/content/oh/story/news/local/2008/01/20/ddn012008mariainside.html?cxntlid=inform


Maria found out she was pregnant on June 27th. NH estimated the conception date as May 14th.

http://www.jdnews.com/articles/map_54317___article.html/_.html

Maria called home and told her mother she was pregnant but no date is given. Again the DDN article is the link to this.

But one thing is a definite, Maria found out before the end of July that she was in fact pregnant.

jmoo [/*]
...which would make sense that she was due in February. But if she told her mom on may 10th that she was attacked, seems weird they'd put conception at May 14th. :shrug:

ETA: ...since she said she was attacked on 4/10.

ETA: That would "prove" I guess that the attack on April 10th did not result in a pregnancy.

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by AmyO

Thanks Lynn! Has anyone told you yet today that you ROCK? If not, there ya go!
:D [/*]

LOL, I'm a little late to the discussion today, but thanks Amy. Oh, and what a discussion it is! :hat:

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by bkwits



Here's what I can't understand. Maria and her unborn baby were murdered (I think most if not all agree on that). The murderer is most likely Cesar. The man who Maria said had raped her. Why is it so difficult to believe he raped her? Why do posters think Maria lied about it. I see no reason to think she lied. :shrug: [/*]

Even her own mother said that Maria had credibility issues. We cannot just assume when there is no evidence to support a rape happened.

And imo it is contrary to her coming there on her own and I fully believe she did. An accuser does not come to the home of the alleged rapist where he is imo.

imoo

[bkwits]

Originally posted by KKKKKKatie


not trying to be argumentative bk but what is obvious to you isn't to everyone. The obvious is your opinion [/*]



What is not obvious to you in the list I posted?

[AmyO]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Even her own mother said that Maria had credibility issues. We cannot just assume when there is no evidence to support a rape happened.

And imo it is contrary to her coming there on her own and I fully believe she did. An accuser does not come to the home of the alleged rapist where he is imo.

imoo [/*]
Good point, GB - as always.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by bkwits


I didn't follow that case, but no one got murdered did they? [/*]

I wasn't talking about murder. I was discussing the rape allegation that happened before her death.:shrug:

imoo

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Marcia3


Maybe she knew she was pregnant? She didn't tell her mother until a month after the alleged assault, so it's possible. [/*]


She had a preg test after she talked to her mom. It was negative.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by Mimi428


North Carolina not only has Camp Lejeune, a Marine base - it also has Ft. Bragg, an Army post. It's a bit over 100 miles between the two.

So - I suppose it is possible that she may have met a GI from Ft. Bragg in NC, who was transferred to Ft. Bliss in El Paso.

So many mysteries & oddities in all of this. . .

JMO [/*]

There's also New River Air Station, Cherry Point Air Station, Seymour Johnson AFB, Bogue Air Field, Pope AFB and the USCG station at Elizabeth City.

I realize what you are saying about the Ft. Bliss connection and that's most definitely a possibility.

Hopefully we will soon find out the El Paso connection.

This is definitely one of the most bizarre cases I have ever seen. Got room on that fainting couch for one more?

jmoo

[bkwits]

Originally posted by hinman
hmm another interesting option.

I am not believing that Durham was the father as some on the other site have suggested. [/*]

It's possible, but I don't think so, either. IMO

[AmyO]

Originally posted by bkwits



She had a preg test after she talked to her mom. It was negative. [/*]
Right, so do we know that the Aprill 10th attack was the rape by Cesar? I don't remember if that was ever put out there as fact.

[hinman]

Had to leave for a minute so I have not caught up.

A possible theory popped into my head while I was out and if anyone else came up with it already sorry, I am behind.

So could our possible mystery guy( father of Maria's baby maybe) be buddy's of caesar's and they are in on this together.

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


When she vacationed at her parents' home in Vandalia in mid-June, Maria came down with what appeared to be the flu. She learned why after she returned to Camp Lejeune.
"Mom, I'm pregnant," she told Mary in a phone call.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/story/content/oh/story/news/local/2008/01/20/ddn012008mariainside.html?cxntlid=inform


Maria found out she was pregnant on June 27th. NH estimated the conception date as May 14th.

http://www.jdnews.com/articles/map_54317___article.html/_.html

Maria called home and told her mother she was pregnant but no date is given. Again the DDN article is the link to this.

But one thing is a definite, Maria found out before the end of July that she was in fact pregnant.

jmoo [/*]

Thanks, nuttin, I was getting ready to look that up and you and Lynn jumped in and saved me the work!

You guys are the best!

[strick10]

Originally posted by sunstar

I still can't figure out what Maria would've gained by leaving the Marines (AWOL) before the baby was born. Wouldn't she lose her medical benefits? [/*]

Regardless of what her military status I doubt any medical facility would turn her away. In El Paso there is Thomason hospital which is a not for profit hospital owned by the community. I seriously doubt they would even be aware an unwed mother with no money showing up to give birth would even look to see what her military affiliation or status was. Many Mexican women go to Thomason to give birth to their children (US Citizens ya know) and do so successfully without paying. Now Beaumont Hospital at Ft. Bliss may have found out she was UA or whatnot had she showed up there.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Yes, there is a connection.
[/*]

There is a connection between this case & the Duke case? How so? I'm not aware that anyone in the Duke case was murdered.

Seems there could be just as likely, if not more likely, a connection between this case & a whole lot of other rape/murder cases, IMO.

[sunstar]

Originally posted by bkwits



Boy, that's a real puzzlement. I cannot think of a reason, either. There are just some big pieces of this puzzle that we don't have. IMO [/*]
It's just bewildered me since the beginning and was part of the reason I initially didn't think Maria had actually been at the bus station or was planning to leave. It seems nothing was thought out and her deciding to leave was spur of the moment.

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by Squawk Box



Thank you Lynn.:rose:

Here is proof Maria DID NOT tell her mother she was raped because she was pregnant. I said July by mistake.

jmo [/*]

I don't see that as proof of any such thing. She could've suspected that she was pregnant, she probably kept track of her period like most women and might have had some other symptoms as well by 5/10.

Ever heard of a false result on a pregnancy test? I've experienced it firsthand, in the doctor's office.

JMO.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by AmyO

Right, so do we know that the Aprill 10th attack was the rape by Cesar? I don't remember if that was ever put out there as fact. [/*]

Maria told her mother that she was attacked by a "Hispanic, a married man with a child" on April 10th.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/story/content/oh/story/news/local/2008/01/20/ddn012008mariainside.html?cxntlid=inform

According to Mary, Maria didn't give a name.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by Mimi428


Snipped

I really do think that even the most devout Catholics today are not nearly so possessed with a mindset of "perish the thought" when it comes to their children having premarital sex. Back then, if WE had gotten pg before marriage - our parents could rightly say it was an embarrassment, what would the neighbors say, etc. Today, everyone seems to know someone in the same, exact situation.

I have no doubt that the Lauterbach family is strong in their religious beliefs, but considering the world we live in now - PLUS the fact that Mary Lauterbach worked at a college - I just can't embrace the idea that she would fall over in shame & embarrassment (like my aunts & uncles would have way back when) if she knew any of her children had sex prior to marriage.

Anyway, it's all JMO. Maybe someday we will know more about what really was on their minds. [/*]

In that world, where would the fact that there was no surviving nephew listed come in?

We know Maria was excited about him and posted about it on her myspace.

Oh yeah, and it that world, how about the "I LOVE BEER" to "I LOVE SOCCER" in the myspace change?

I think there is more involved here that relates to appearances and that could even go to the initial narrative where Mary has told them a SUPERIOR OFFICER because if it was a fellow recruit, it wouldn't have garnered quite as much attention IMHO. Oh the shame. :rolleyes:

I simply don't think any of us can presume anything about the Lauterbach family given that; after all that it was okay for Uncle Peter to come out and discuss ATTACHMENT DISORDER and the circumstances of TWO SISTERS and their unfortunate first few years IMO.

But that's JMO and nothing more. :seeya:

[baywench]

Although the paternity of the father is interesting, I do not think it will be pursued if CL is not the father. I am thinking out loud....there has to be a clue in the note. "I am leaving because I can't take the military anymore". I am pondering this. JMMO

[bkwits]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I wasn't talking about murder. I was discussing the rape allegation that happened before her death.:shrug:

imoo [/*]


But the point of the whole thing is murder. The man she accused of rape is indicted for her murder.

The murder has everything to do with the rape accusation. IMO. The murder and subsequent cover-up was done by a violent person. IMO

Now if you don't believe Cesar murdered Maria, then I can see doubts about the rape, otherwise, I don't understand them. IMO

[Mitzy2]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


When she vacationed at her parents' home in Vandalia in mid-June, Maria came down with what appeared to be the flu. She learned why after she returned to Camp Lejeune.
"Mom, I'm pregnant," she told Mary in a phone call.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/story/content/oh/story/news/local/2008/01/20/ddn012008mariainside.html?cxntlid=inform


Maria found out she was pregnant on June 27th. NH estimated the conception date as May 14th.

http://www.jdnews.com/articles/map_54317___article.html/_.html

Maria called home and told her mother she was pregnant but no date is given. Again the DDN article is the link to this.

But one thing is a definite, Maria found out before the end of July that she was in fact pregnant.

jmoo [/*] Just jumping in here, so Maria had a "negative preg test on May 11 and 3-4 weeks later she gets "morning sickness" too much of a coincidence for me. Sounds like she really was pregnant on 5-11 ( false positive ) perhaps. It happens ! I once became sick, took preg test, results positive, went to OBGYN his test positive, took another 2 weeks later "Poof" gone, never was pregnant :shrug:

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by Marcia3


I don't see that as proof of any such thing. She could've suspected that she was pregnant, she probably kept track of her period like most women and might have had some other symptoms as well by 5/10.

Ever heard of a false result on a pregnancy test? I've experienced it firsthand, in the doctor's office.

JMO. [/*]

No it isn't Marcia and I believe she probably feared being pregnant too, and add to that finding out Cesar was married or simply that he wasn't leaving or couldn't leave.

jmo tho:shrug:

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by baywench
Although the paternity of the father is interesting, I do not think it will be pursued if CL is not the father. I am thinking out loud....there has to be a clue in the note. "I am leaving because I can't take the military anymore". I am pondering this. JMMO [/*]

Good point and observation.

I'm on my way out the door and will be back later this evening. Gonna give some thought to your point...

[hinman]

Originally posted by baywench
Although the paternity of the father is interesting, I do not think it will be pursued if CL is not the father. I am thinking out loud....there has to be a clue in the note. "I am leaving because I can't take the military anymore". I am pondering this. JMMO [/*]Very true Bay ...hmmm unless they use that as the excuse for CL murdering Maria.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by sunstar

It's just bewildered me since the beginning and was part of the reason I initially didn't think Maria had actually been at the bus station or was planning to leave. It seems nothing was thought out and her deciding to leave was spur of the moment. [/*]

Me too. That whole day, Dec. 14, is just a conundrum. The baby clothes mystery, etc. I just don't know what happened that day.

[hinman]

Originally posted by Mitzy2
Just jumping in here, so Maria had a "negative preg test on May 11 and 3-4 weeks later she gets "morning sickness" too much of a coincidence for me. Sounds like she really was pregnant on 5-11 ( false positive ) perhaps. It happens ! I once became sick, took preg test, results positive, went to OBGYN his test positive, took another 2 weeks later "Poof" gone, never was pregnant :shrug: [/*]We argued this so many times on here. Some felt there was no way the Dr was wrong about the time Maria got pregnant which added credence to CL for them.

I have always wondered of Maria really was pregnant then and her due date was correct ( the one she told Mary) and not the one the Dr gave her.

[AmyO]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Maria told her mother that she was attacked by a "Hispanic, a married man with a child" on April 10th.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/story/content/oh/story/news/local/2008/01/20/ddn012008mariainside.html?cxntlid=inform

According to Mary, Maria didn't give a name. [/*]
Hum - sounds like a description of Cesar to me! haha Well then that child isn't his unless they had relations in mid-May.

[AmyO]

Originally posted by baywench
Although the paternity of the father is interesting, I do not think it will be pursued if CL is not the father. I am thinking out loud....there has to be a clue in the note. "I am leaving because I can't take the military anymore". I am pondering this. JMMO [/*]
Good point, bay. Maybe the Corps was protecting this "superior officer" to the point she got fed up.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by hinman
Had to leave for a minute so I have not caught up.

A possible theory popped into my head while I was out and if anyone else came up with it already sorry, I am behind.

So could our possible mystery guy( father of Maria's baby maybe) be buddy's of caesar's and they are in on this together. [/*]

Not just in YOUR head. I was thinking the exact same thing!

[Mitzy2]

Originally posted by hinman
Had to leave for a minute so I have not caught up.

A possible theory popped into my head while I was out and if anyone else came up with it already sorry, I am behind.

So could our possible mystery guy( father of Maria's baby maybe) be buddy's of caesar's and they are in on this together. [/*] that's been swirling around in my mind also. Perhaps the other boyfriend (Superior) requested to met with Maria at Cesars house before she blew town and "murder occurred", 2 men did all the cleanup, disposal and moving Maria's car around. Just a theroy, but I can't make all the pieces fit in my head.hammer = me. JMO

[AmyO]

Originally posted by Mitzy2
that's been swirling around in my mind also. Perhaps the other boyfriend (Superior) requested to met with Maria at Cesars house before she blew town and "murder occurred", 2 men did all the cleanup, disposal and moving Maria's car around. Just a theroy, but I can't make all the pieces fit in my head.hammer = me. JMO [/*]
OOOOOOOOOOoooooo - you guys could really be onto something. And maybe Cesar told Christina to take the baby and stay at her mom's or sister's or something and that is why she didn't know anything. THAT scenario would make sense to me. Oh boy - gets more interesting by the minute! :biggrin:

[Kim]

Originally posted by Mimi428


There is a connection between this case & the Duke case? How so? I'm not aware that anyone in the Duke case was murdered.

Seems there could be just as likely, if not more likely, a connection between this case & a whole lot of other rape/murder cases, IMO. [/*]
Lets not waste time here.I am new to this board and even I knew what she meant.We dont need to mince words here it is a waste of time.the murder had nothing to do with rape accusations at the time Maria made them.She was pointing out people can be accused without it actaully being fact.Or that someone can be found "not guilty" after being accused of rape.Can we go on now?.seems Sometimes people have an agenda on here to just lash out and attack without merit thats not what we are here for is it? I have a son that will argue about anything and wear out the best of you if you want his phone number.Lets not get nasty.

[AmyO]

Originally posted by Kim

Lets not waste time here.I am new to this board and even I knew what she meant.We dont need to mince words here it is a waste of time.the murder had nothing to do with rape accusations at the time Maria made them.She was pointing out people can be accused without it actaully being fact.Or that someone can be found "not guilty" after being accused of rape.Can we go on now.seems Sometimes people have an agenda on here to just lash out and attack without merit thats now what we are here for is it? I have a son that will argue about anything and wear out the best of you if you want his phone number.Lets not get nasty. [/*]
Yeah - folks should know that GB knows what she's talking about and is a very informed and pleasant poster.

You made me laugh about your son! My husband is like that! LOL

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by Kim

Lets not waste time here.I am new to this board and even I knew what she meant.We dont need to mince words here it is a waste of time.the murder had nothing to do with rape accusations at the time Maria made them.She was pointing out people can be accused without it actaully being fact.Or that someone can be found "not guilty" after being accused of rape.Can we go on now?.seems Sometimes people have an agenda on here to just lash out and attack without merit thats not what we are here for is it? I have a son that will argue about anything and wear out the best of you if you want his phone number.Lets not get nasty. [/*]

:lol: I have a son like that too.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by AmyO

Right, so do we know that the Aprill 10th attack was the rape by Cesar? I don't remember if that was ever put out there as fact. [/*]

We'll probably never know it as a fact, now. Unless he confesses to it. IMO

[strick10]

Originally posted by baywench
Although the paternity of the father is interesting, I do not think it will be pursued if CL is not the father. I am thinking out loud....there has to be a clue in the note. "I am leaving because I can't take the military anymore". I am pondering this. JMMO [/*]

Leaving the MC.....IMO she knew that NCIS could not find the evidence they needed for the alleged rape and the inconsistencies in her story was making for the alleged rape case to probably not go in Marias favor. Maria was under alot of stress IMO due to the upcoming hearing where everything would be layed out. Of course NCIS has the exact details of the investigation but I tend to believe that the hearing was going to find that Maria made false statement/allegations. That's enough for her to get the heck out of dodge and find some peace for a little bit. IMO

[baywench]

Wow my brain is firing like crazy.

1. If there is a superior officer involved (and it is not Cesar) and she was not pregnant when she fingered Cesar doesn't it seem more probable that the superior would be at the new office she was assigned to?

2. If two of them were involved in killing her and cleaning up and the 2nd person is the father why would she bother accusing Cesar instead of the superior officer?

3. Even if the initial pregnancy test was wrong (which I do not think it was) she had doctor appointments and sonargrams all the way through her pregnancy. JMO

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Mitzy2
that's been swirling around in my mind also. Perhaps the other boyfriend (Superior) requested to met with Maria at Cesars house before she blew town and "murder occurred", 2 men did all the cleanup, disposal and moving Maria's car around. Just a theroy, but I can't make all the pieces fit in my head.hammer = me. JMO [/*]


oooooo--eeee-uuuu :eek:

This is really getting spooky.

I have to leave for a while. Catch all you crime sleuths later. :seeya:

[Mitzy2]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


:lol: I have a son like that too. [/*] I have a husband like that when it comes to politics. I just put him on "Ignore":D

[baywench]

Originally posted by strick10


Leaving the MC.....IMO she knew that NCIS could not find the evidence they needed for the alleged rape and the inconsistencies in her story was making for the alleged rape case to probably not go in Marias favor. Maria was under alot of stress IMO due to the upcoming hearing where everything would be layed out. Of course NCIS has the exact details of the investigation but I tend to believe that the hearing was going to find that Maria made false statement/allegations. That's enough for her to get the heck out of dodge and find some peace for a little bit. IMO [/*]

Good point. So are you thinking her leaving had nothing to do with her mom's call?

[Kim]

Originally posted by hinman
Had to leave for a minute so I have not caught up.

A possible theory popped into my head while I was out and if anyone else came up with it already sorry, I am behind.

So could our possible mystery guy( father of Maria's baby maybe) be buddy's of caesar's and they are in on this together. [/*]
If this theory is correct and IF it were to come out in book/movie form it would surely be a horror.
I could not imagine the terror in Maria during her last moments knowing she didn't have a chance agains 2.

[AmyO]

Originally posted by bkwits


We'll probably never know it as a fact, now. Unless he confesses to it. IMO [/*]
I guess what I mean is was that documented with the Corps by Maria? If it was, I assume it will come out during the trial unless the military/LE keep it within the jurisdiction of the Marines. I'm not sure how that works since the murder is what civilian LE will prosecute, not the rape.

[strick10]

Originally posted by Mitzy2
that's been swirling around in my mind also. Perhaps the other boyfriend (Superior) requested to met with Maria at Cesars house before she blew town and "murder occurred", 2 men did all the cleanup, disposal and moving Maria's car around. Just a theroy, but I can't make all the pieces fit in my head.hammer = me. JMO [/*]

I've alway said I think there was more than CAL involved in this partake in the actual murder (not meaning CSL as the other) and cover up. Maybe my theory is becoming somewhat of a reality.

[crymeariver2006]

I'm not putting much credence into this "superior officer" business. Not yet anyway. It's what Mary has referred to Maria's "rapist" all along and no doubt Maria probably referred to him as her "superior" at some point.

All JMO but I really think it's much ado about nothing.

I will, however, pop enough Jiffy Pop to give everyone a tinfoil crown, but something tells me I'm not going to have to.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by Mitzy2
I have a husband like that when it comes to politics. I just put him on "Ignore":D [/*]

And when he speaks, do you get this cloud above his head that says "You have this person on Ignore"?

:lol:

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by strick10


I've alway said I think there was more than CAL involved in this partake in the actual murder (not meaning CSL as the other) and cover up. Maybe my theory is becoming somewhat of a reality. [/*]

Now that would be a TOTAL shock to me.

[strick10]

Originally posted by baywench


Good point. So are you thinking her leaving had nothing to do with her mom's call? [/*]

She may have thought of leaving but didn't act on the idea. IMO her moms call is what actually drove her to act. Only so much a person can take and w/ mom harping about the adoption I'd think that was enough IMO.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by bkwits



But the point of the whole thing is murder. The man she accused of rape is indicted for her murder.

The murder has everything to do with the rape accusation. IMO. The murder and subsequent cover-up was done by a violent person. IMO

Now if you don't believe Cesar murdered Maria, then I can see doubts about the rape, otherwise, I don't understand them. IMO [/*]

I agree it may have had something to do with the rape allegations lodged against him and Maria not saying that he wasn't he father until November 07 and this had been grinding on for months.

But it does not seal that there was ever a rape to begin with and if he knew it all along that it wasn't and she came there face to face in his home to approach him that day then, yes, they could have gotten into a confrontation about it where it ended very violently and he would be guilty of murdering her but may have had a consensual relationship with her and the rape allegations were false. If this was true then I can see anyone that was accused falsely being very angry about it although there is no excuse for taking her life imo.

Honestly, I do not know who did this crime......it could have been Christina or Laurean. On that I will have to wait for the actual evidence and testimony of the witnesses on both sides.

As it stands now there is no evidence to prove the rape allegations and I think this is what NCIS struggled with for months ......looking and not finding any evidence they needed. Now if Gabriel is determined not to be his child then imo it will call into question her alleged claims even more.

A murderer does not have to be a rapist and a rapist doesn't have to be a murderer. Assumptions simply cannot be made when he was never even charged because of this complaint much less showing any evidence or proof that it had really happened.

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by strick10


She may have thought of leaving but didn't act on the idea. IMO her moms call is what actually drove her to act. Only so much a person can take and w/ mom harping about the adoption I'd think that was enough IMO. [/*]

I do think that was the triggering factor that put the entire thing in play and was why she decided to leave among other things.

imoo

[Kim]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze




A murderer does not have to be a rapist and a rapist doesn't have to be a murderer. Assumptions simply cannot be made when he was never even charged because of this complaint much less showing any evidence or proof that it had really happened.

imoo [/*]

I would also like to add;husbands & */f are accused of rape also/Having a relationship doesnt give them privy.I am not saying Cesar did/didnt I am only bringing this up because it is often contemplated on here how she could say "rape" if she was having an affair with him.

[Mitzy2]

Originally posted by strick10


I've alway said I think there was more than CAL involved in this partake in the actual murder (not meaning CSL as the other) and cover up. Maybe my theory is becoming somewhat of a reality. [/*] I also keep thinking ,Why would Cesar say "Proof" after his capture when he knew all of the evidence points to him be the "killer" ??? In addition worrying about the Marine Corp "railroading him without evidence." Just food for thought. ( Maybe crow) JMO

[strick10]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


Now that would be a TOTAL shock to me. [/*]

And if I'm wrong I'll eat a roasted chicken, don't like crow. I'm not saying I believe everything in the note CAL left behind but i wouldn't doubt that someone else was w/ CAL maybe having some beers while everyone was at the XMas party.

[AmyO]

Originally posted by strick10


And if I'm wrong I'll eat a roasted chicken, don't like crow. I'm not saying I believe everything in the note CAL left behind but i wouldn't doubt that someone else was w/ CAL maybe having some beers while everyone was at the XMas party. [/*]
I wonder if Cesar told Christina he had an accomplice?