Thurs. 17 Apr 08 Daily Discussion

[strick10]

Originally posted by Kim


I would also like to add;husbands & */f are accused of rape also/Having a relationship doesnt give them privy.I am not saying Cesar did/didnt I am only bringing this up because it is often contemplated on here how she could say "rape" if she was having an affair with him. [/*]

Just out of curiosity.....could a husband accuse his wife of rape as well?

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by strick10


Leaving the MC.....IMO she knew that NCIS could not find the evidence they needed for the alleged rape and the inconsistencies in her story was making for the alleged rape case to probably not go in Marias favor. Maria was under alot of stress IMO due to the upcoming hearing where everything would be layed out. Of course NCIS has the exact details of the investigation but I tend to believe that the hearing was going to find that Maria made false statement/allegations. That's enough for her to get the heck out of dodge and find some peace for a little bit. IMO [/*]

That's what I find curious about the comments by Kevin Marks according to these articles .... was there evidence? (what evidence were they confident in since they were waiting for the baby to be born?) JMO

Lauterbach met with military prosecutors in December to discuss pursuing rape charges against Laurean, said Kevin Marks, the supervisory special agent for the Naval Criminal Investigative Service at Camp Lejeune. Prosecutors believed they had enough evidence to argue that the case should go to a court martial, he said.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/2287295/


Lauterbach met with military prosecutors in December to discuss pursuing rape charges against Laurean, said Kevin Marks, supervisory agent with the Naval Criminal Investigative Service at Camp Lejeune. He said military prosecutors believed they had enough evidence to argue that the case should go to trial.

http://tinyurl.com/3avfdn

[CanCan]

Originally posted by caejde


Makes me wonder about the email to her friend about the pregnancy being a good or bad thing....what would have made it good...if Cesar was or wasn't the father? [/*]

Good one, cj. I'd always assumed it meant, "good if CL leaves his wife for me, bad if CL doesn't leave his wife for me."

jmo

[Mitzy2]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


And when he speaks, do you get this cloud above his head that says "You have this person on Ignore"?

:lol: [/*] Yep ! Big Cloud :biggrin:

[sunstar]

Originally posted by baywench
Although the paternity of the father is interesting, I do not think it will be pursued if CL is not the father. I am thinking out loud....there has to be a clue in the note. "I am leaving because I can't take the military anymore". I am pondering this. JMMO [/*]
I don't think it will be either, and also think there might be a clue within her note. I wish we knew what exactly was it she couldn't take anymore and why she chose that weekend to leave ~ except for her mother planning to visit the next weekend.

[Kim]

Originally posted by strick10


Just out of curiosity.....could a husband accuse his wife of rape as well? [/*]
I would imagine so.I think I have heard (IIRC) of men being raped.Anybody else have more info?

[strick10]

Originally posted by AmyO

I wonder if Cesar told Christina he had an accomplice? [/*]

Just a theory of mine....the accomplice. IMO I don't think he told her every single detail or maybe she didn't let him tell her, she may have not wanted to know anymore. Maybe he didn't tell her every detail so she couldn't tell all if a time ever came. We don't have the whole story.......yet. Maybe she knew and hasn't said anything, who knows. I just don't know.

[MamaDudosa]

Originally posted by baywench
Wow my brain is firing like crazy.

1. If there is a superior officer involved (and it is not Cesar) and she was not pregnant when she fingered Cesar doesn't it seem more probable that the superior would be at the new office she was assigned to?

2. If two of them were involved in killing her and cleaning up and the 2nd person is the father why would she bother accusing Cesar instead of the superior officer?

3. Even if the initial pregnancy test was wrong (which I do not think it was) she had doctor appointments and sonargrams all the way through her pregnancy. JMO [/*]

Maybe, just a thought, he was there while the rape occured???

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny


That's what I find curious about the comments by Kevin Marks according to these articles .... was there evidence? (what evidence were they confident in since they were waiting for the baby to be born?) JMO

Lauterbach met with military prosecutors in December to discuss pursuing rape charges against Laurean, said Kevin Marks, the supervisory special agent for the Naval Criminal Investigative Service at Camp Lejeune. Prosecutors believed they had enough evidence to argue that the case should go to a court martial, he said.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/2287295/


Lauterbach met with military prosecutors in December to discuss pursuing rape charges against Laurean, said Kevin Marks, supervisory agent with the Naval Criminal Investigative Service at Camp Lejeune. He said military prosecutors believed they had enough evidence to argue that the case should go to trial.

http://tinyurl.com/3avfdn [/*]

Thanks Lynn. I think the evidence was in regard to abuse of authority because Cesar was her superior when it occurred. Overnight while standing watch. No force needed for that.

JMO

[CanCan]

Originally posted by bkwits


But Marcia, why would Maria tell her mother about the rape to cover the pregnancy when she wasn't even pregnant yet?:shrug: [/*]

Maybe because she was inexperienced, she was just fearful that she was pregnant? :shrug:

jmo

[strick10]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny


That's what I find curious about the comments by Kevin Marks according to these articles .... was there evidence? (what evidence were they confident in since they were waiting for the baby to be born?) JMO

Lauterbach met with military prosecutors in December to discuss pursuing rape charges against Laurean, said Kevin Marks, the supervisory special agent for the Naval Criminal Investigative Service at Camp Lejeune. Prosecutors believed they had enough evidence to argue that the case should go to a court martial, he said.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/2287295/


Very curious indeed Gweeny. NCIS had stated they previously said they had no evidence (maybe I'm wrong) and Marks states that they believed there was enough evidence. Enough evidence of the rape? I don't think so. If they had evidence CAL would've been in pre-trial confinement. They were awaiting for DNA for possible evidence and that has not been accomplished. Evidence of false statements from both? Maybe. Maria for the rape allegation and CAL for the no sex comment (they probably found out through interviews there was an affair). NCIS has admitted that this case was very difficult due to the lack of evidence and the inconsistent statements. IMO they were proceeding w/ the hearing because the commander was pushing it, rape or no rape. NCIS also said Maria was facing a possible discharge, that wouldn't be the case if they had evidence now would it. Nothing in her records or performance, IAW the MC's response to "that man", indicate anything serious in her daily performance at the time that would render a discharge.

[CanCan]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


Discuss away. No problem there. I gave my thoughts just like everyone else.

My opinion is Cesar is going down for this no matter what. That's all.

jmo [/*]

Even if he's not the murderer???

jmo

[CanCan]

Originally posted by Marcia3


LOL on WWIII.

Yep, she did tell us that, and if we believe her (and I'm not saying I do or I don't), then that might be the reason behind the rape allegation.

[/*]

SNIPPED

Quite possible...........to get back at CL.
jmo

[strick10]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


Thanks Lynn. I think the evidence was in regard to abuse of authority because Cesar was her superior when it occurred. Overnight while standing watch. No force needed for that.

JMO [/*]

IIRC they weren't on duty when the alleged rape happened. Maria said they were working late, I can't remember whom she told that to. CAL may have been a Cpl but he didn't hold that type of authority over a LCpl. I think Maria was smart enough to respect the rank but not follow orders she knew were wrong or take threats from a boot Cpl. Please don't tell me she didn't know better...... as I don't see Maria as a totally naive individual. IMO

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by strick10


Just a theory of mine....the accomplice. IMO I don't think he told her every single detail or maybe she didn't let him tell her, she may have not wanted to know anymore. Maybe he didn't tell her every detail so she couldn't tell all if a time ever came. We don't have the whole story.......yet. Maybe she knew and hasn't said anything, who knows. I just don't know. [/*]

I tell ya strick, there are a lot of what if's in this case....This is truly one of the most bizarre cases I have ever seen.


The info is in your pm box.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by strick10


IIRC they weren't on duty when the alleged rape happened. Maria said they were working late, I can't remember whom she told that to. CAL may have been a Cpl but he didn't hold that type of authority over a LCpl. I think Maria was smart enough to respect the rank but not follow orders she knew were wrong or take threats from a boot Cpl. Please don't tell me she didn't know better...... as I don't see Maria as a totally naive individual. IMO [/*]

Admin and/or personnel clerks are gone by 4:30-5:00 in the afternoon unless they are released earlier in the day. Plus if they were in fact working late, the entire section would be present, correct?

You know as well as I do that a Cpl. never holds the keys to the 'office'. Those are with the OIC, OOD or SNCO.


jmoo

[CanCan]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Just because she was an outwardly solid Marine does not mean inwardly she was strong at all. Some men and women both try to portray themselves as a tough Marine yet struggle to be inwardly strong.

We have no idea why she would do that just like we have no idea why she would make up an outlandish story that her father had killed her little brother with a lamp.:shrug:

imoo [/*]

And I was just going to post, GB, that :chicken: perhaps the rape story was in the same category as the lamp story - told for the same (unknown to us) reason.

jmo

[strick10]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Admin and/or personnel clerks are gone by 4:30-5:00 in the afternoon unless they are released earlier in the day. Plus if they were in fact working late, the entire section would be present, correct?

You know as well as I do that a Cpl. never holds the keys to the 'office'. Those are with the OIC, OOD or SNCO.


jmoo [/*]

I would certainly think that someone else would've been there or the entire section would've been there. It is also safe to say that in most cases the SNCOIC and OIC are typically the last to leave. I'm wondering what particular building they worked in. I'm thinking that possibly the old 2nd FSSG building in FC.....

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by CanCan


Even if he's not the murderer???

jmo [/*]

No chance of that, he is the murderer. jmo

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by strick10


IIRC they weren't on duty when the alleged rape happened. Maria said they were working late, I can't remember whom she told that to. CAL may have been a Cpl but he didn't hold that type of authority over a LCpl. I think Maria was smart enough to respect the rank but not follow orders she knew were wrong or take threats from a boot Cpl. Please don't tell me she didn't know better...... as I don't see Maria as a totally naive individual. IMO [/*]

I don't understand. What if they work late to say 10 pm, they are not on duty?

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


I don't understand. What if they work late to say 10 pm, they are not on duty? [/*]

Admin clerks are not going to work until 10pm. jmo

eta: in RARE circumstances (preparing to deploy perhaps) and then, not alone. EVERYONE would be there too.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by marinewife5


Admin clerks are not going to work until 10pm. jmo [/*]

Does someone always stand duty overnight?

[CanCan]

Originally posted by strick10


She may have thought of leaving but didn't act on the idea. IMO her moms call is what actually drove her to act. Only so much a person can take and w/ mom harping about the adoption I'd think that was enough IMO. [/*]

I also think Maria left because Mom was on her way to Camp LJ for the birth......yet the birth was actually not for another month.....Maria had lied about her due date to her mom IIRC.
jmo

[strick10]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


I don't understand. What if they work late to say 10 pm, they are not on duty? [/*]

Civilians may see it as still being on duty but Marines think of duty as standing an official watch. Working late is just that, working late. I've never heard a Marine say I've got to stay on duty to work, it's always been I've got to work late or I've got to stand duty at the barracks tonight.

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


Does someone always stand duty overnight? [/*]

not necessarily an admin clerk. marines from the unit in general, not one section. they would be on a roster prepared in advance. jmo

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by marinewife5


Admin clerks are not going to work until 10pm. jmo

eta: in RARE circumstances (preparing to deploy perhaps) and then, not alone. EVERYONE would be there too. [/*]

MW, you may have to explain the duty thing as in barracks duty.

My SIL calls it 'babysitting', LOL. Matter of fact he just got off barracks duty this morning.

jmoo

[strick10]

Originally posted by marinewife5


not necessarily an admin clerk. marines from the unit in general, not one section. they would be on a roster prepared in advance. jmo [/*]

And if they still do it the same two Marines from one section typically do not stand the same duty together. Usually it's one person from say admin, one from mt, etc. It is done this way so that a section doesn't loose 2 people from work that day or the next day when the off going duty get's secures early because they stood duty.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by strick10


And if they still do it the same two Marines from one section typically do not stand the same duty together. Usually it's one person from say admin, one from mt, etc. It is done this way so that a section doesn't loose 2 people from work that day or the next day when the off going duty get's secures early because they stood duty. [/*]

So Maria could not have been alone with Cesar during the second alleged sexual encounter in the office as she told the MC and her mother?

[nuttintodo]

NC Voters Think Laurean Should Be Charged With 2 Murders

http://www.wnct.com/midatlantic/nct/news/local_news.apx.-content-articles-NCT-2008-04-17-0051.html


I wholeheartedly agree that anytime a pregnant woman is killed, the person or persons responsible should have two counts of murder, not one.

Just in NC alone, we've had several pregnant women killed (this isn't a complete list): Janet Abrosa, Jenna Neilsen, Michelle Young and Maria Lauterbach all pregnant and each was murdered.

It is indeed time for a change!

jmoo

[martha]

Oh my I am so far behind on everything and don;t feel like going back and reading everything. do they know for sure the baby was not cl. was this the reason they wanted a new dna? could have it been possiable that cl loved ml and she was not in love with him. maybe she was in love with the father of her baby? Maybe the real father had talked her into leaving and he would meet her one day. maybe ml went to cl house to tell him all this and after thinking the baby was his and him loving ml it made him so very mad at her.????? I will always believe ml and cl had a sex realation ship??/ jmho maybe cl loved her and thought they would be togeather some time. when she told him it was not his baby he went into a rage. I seen a video of ml mother and there is something wrong with her i just can;t put my finger on it. Maybe cl did not kill her maybe someone elce did it at his house???? If it was someone higher up in the mc they may be making cl and his wife keep their mouth shut or elce maybe that is what cl ment by the mc railroading him. all of this is just going thru my mind no proff. I knew we did not know all we needed to know about this case to be saying this one was guilty or that one was guilty. sorry if i am upsetting anyone. cl is afraid of the mc for some reason and i don;t know enough about the mc to know what he might be afraid of. I do know when I saw his picture when they caught him he looked so bad. he did not look like a cold blooded killer imho He may have done this but I will still keep him in my prayers. and if he did then he needs to be punished. sounds like ml might have been the cause of a lot that went on in her life and i don;t think she had the sup she needed for her family. she needed help from someone she trusted not to condeam her but i don;t think she had that. my heart still goes out to all of them on both sides. If a high up in the mc is in on this he needs to be punished to. I am lost on what is going on now so please people don;t get angury with me I am so torn up over all this mess as i know a lot of you or too.:rose: everyone pray with me that the truth will come out.

[martha]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


So Maria could not have been alone with Cesar during the second alleged sexual encounter in the office as she told the MC and her mother? [/*] I think they were having an affair along with this other man i think ml thought she loved the other man . but cl loved ml and prob knew about the other man.jmho:rose:

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


So Maria could not have been alone with Cesar during the second alleged sexual encounter in the office as she told the MC and her mother? [/*]

I find it unlikely. jmo

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by martha
I think they were having an affair along with this other man i think ml thought she loved the other man . but cl loved ml and prob knew about the other man.jmho:rose: [/*]

You could be right Martha. I hope everything is good for you today.:rose:

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by marinewife5


I find it unlikely. jmo [/*]

I find it very likely. jmo

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by martha
I think they were having an affair along with this other man i think ml thought she loved the other man . but cl loved ml and prob knew about the other man.jmho:rose: [/*]

i'm not convinced there actually was another man. jmo

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


I find it very likely. jmo [/*]
How?

[strick10]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


So Maria could not have been alone with Cesar during the second alleged sexual encounter in the office as she told the MC and her mother? [/*]

IMO it's very doubtful.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by marinewife5

How? [/*]


I'm thinking because Maria reported that to NCIS according to the Marine PC. It must have happened because I believe she knew that could be checked.

JMO

[martha]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


There is nothing even proving a rape did indeed happen. Just because she made allegations doesn't make it true.......just ask the Duke Lacrosse players.

imoo [/*] I don;t think there was a rape. jmho sweet pie clean out your pm lol:rose:

[martha]

Originally posted by marinewife5


i'm not convinced there actually was another man. jmo [/*]Maybe not all I can do is guess about all this stuff. You have more on the know than i do. I always enjoy your post and I know you know more that me about the mc I love all the mc men and women but have no knowledge on them. I think the mc knows a lot more than they or telling us or le don;t you?:rose:

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by Squawk Box



I'm thinking because Maria reported that to NCIS according to the Marine PC. It must have happened because I believe she knew that could be checked.

JMO [/*]

Reported what? That they were working late?

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by martha
Maybe not all I can do is guess about all this stuff. You have more on the know than i do. I always enjoy your post and I know you know more that me about the mc I love all the mc men and women but have no knowledge on them. I think the mc knows a lot more than they or telling us or le don;t you?:rose: [/*]

I do very much agree with you on an affair gone bad. It's sad to see maria's life end so prematurely over something, that in the big picture, wasn't that important. JMO

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by marinewife5


Reported what? That they were working late? [/*]

What we were discussing. They were alone in the duty office. There was a way that happened.



From the PC by the Marines on 1/15

@ 19:45 thru 21:25

NCIS Agent Ciccarelli: Normally, as I expressed last Friday, we do not talk about rape investigations. We feel right now that this would help us with our ongoing investigation right now to help us find the location where Cpl. Laurean is.

We�re going to provide you with the facts. Just the facts that we received, okay. And, as it was read by Lt. Col. Hill, she had reported on the 11 May date to NCIS that she was raped, okay. She had reported to us that prior to the rape, that in March of 2007, she had a sexual encounter with Cpl. Laurean that was not criminal in nature, okay, it was not criminal in nature. A month later, in April, she reports having a sexual relationship with him on base. It occurred at their duty assignment, the duty office. There was no threat of force, there was no violence involved, there was no coercion, no blackmailing. There was at one point where, during sexual activity, where she asked him to stop, he did stop. This is all information she provided to the case agent. These are the facts that we were presented with. (Question: when did she alledge the rape happened?) That was the second incident. (Question: she called it a rape?)

http://www.jdnews.com/video/index.php?bcpid=1156002469&bclid=1155200144&bctid=1379594756

__________________

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by marinewife5


I do very much agree with you on an affair gone bad. It's sad to see maria's life end so prematurely over something, that in the big picture, wasn't that important. JMO [/*]

I just can't get past the damage done. Foremost to Maria and Gabriel, and in a very real and harmful way to all who loved Maria and CAL, too. So many lives either ended or damaged or ruined and why? No matter which of the motives I have attributed to this crime, in the final analysis it just doesn't make any sense.

So if CAL's relationship and sexual encounters with Maria were either by force or consent, and he was discharged as a result, would that really matter in the long context of his life? Why couldn't he see that?

The bottom line for me is that it was all so unnecessary. Death is final, no parole for Maria and Gabriel.

JMO

[martha]

Originally posted by marinewife5


I do very much agree with you on an affair gone bad. It's sad to see maria's life end so prematurely over something, that in the big picture, wasn't that important. JMO [/*] ITA when we or young we do a lot of things we wish later we had not done. I know after not have a good family back ground we look for love from people and sometimes it is the wrong thing to do. not haveing been loved growing up makes us look to someone for love and at 20 you want to believe someone will love you. just saying. someone that has always had someone to love them don;t understand this. I just hope someday we will know the truth about this case but we may never know. I guess cl is our only hope and he may not tell the truth for a lot of reasons. :rose:

[Squawk Box]

Reposted:

Lynn Gweeny
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2005
Location:
Posts: 4119


Lauterbach met with military prosecutors in December to discuss pursuing rape charges against Laurean, said Kevin Marks, the supervisory special agent for the Naval Criminal Investigative Service at Camp Lejeune. Prosecutors believed they had enough evidence to argue that the case should go to a court martial, he said.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/2287295/


Lauterbach met with military prosecutors in December to discuss pursuing rape charges against Laurean, said Kevin Marks, supervisory agent with the Naval Criminal Investigative Service at Camp Lejeune. He said military prosecutors believed they had enough evidence to argue that the case should go to trial.

http://tinyurl.com/3avfdn

=============================

Wonder what they have? Abuse by authority is my guess. jmo
Cesar is sure worried about that rape charge for some reason. jmo

[martha]

Originally posted by Marcia3


I just can't get past the damage done. Foremost to Maria and Gabriel, and in a very real and harmful way to all who loved Maria and CAL, too. So many lives either ended or damaged or ruined and why? No matter which of the motives I have attributed to this crime, in the final analysis it just doesn't make any sense.

So if CAL's relationship and sexual encounters with Maria were either by force or consent, and he was discharged as a result, would that really matter in the long context of his life? Why couldn't he see that?

The bottom line for me is that it was all so unnecessary. Death is final, no parole for Maria and Gabriel.

JMO [/*] ita you hit the nail on the head. death is so final I just can;t understand why someone thinks that is the answer. maybe ml told him the baby was not his and he loved ml so much it just put him in a rage. maybe he was planing to have a life with ml and the baby who knows. but you or so right death is not the ans. never is.:rose:

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


What we were discussing. They were alone in the duty office. There was a way that happened.



From the PC by the Marines on 1/15

@ 19:45 thru 21:25

NCIS Agent Ciccarelli: Normally, as I expressed last Friday, we do not talk about rape investigations. We feel right now that this would help us with our ongoing investigation right now to help us find the location where Cpl. Laurean is.

We�re going to provide you with the facts. Just the facts that we received, okay. And, as it was read by Lt. Col. Hill, she had reported on the 11 May date to NCIS that she was raped, okay. She had reported to us that prior to the rape, that in March of 2007, she had a sexual encounter with Cpl. Laurean that was not criminal in nature, okay, it was not criminal in nature. A month later, in April, she reports having a sexual relationship with him on base. It occurred at their duty assignment, the duty office. There was no threat of force, there was no violence involved, there was no coercion, no blackmailing. There was at one point where, during sexual activity, where she asked him to stop, he did stop. This is all information she provided to the case agent. These are the facts that we were presented with. (Question: when did she alledge the rape happened?) That was the second incident. (Question: she called it a rape?)

http://www.jdnews.com/video/index.php?bcpid=1156002469&bclid=1155200144&bctid=1379594756

__________________ [/*]

Duty assignment is where they worked (when a marine checks in, they are checking in to a duty station, duty assignment.) The office they worked in. He never said they were standing duty. Strick had already pointed out, you wouldn't have two individuals from the same office on "duty" for the night. JMO

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by marinewife5


Duty assignment is where they worked (when a marine checks in, they are checking in to a duty station, duty assignment.) The office they worked in. He never said they were standing duty. Strick had already pointed out, you wouldn't have two individuals from the same office on "duty" for the night. JMO [/*]

OK they weren't standing duty, but they were there alone. That is the point. Whatever they were there for, it happened there. jmo

What is your opinion what they were there for in the duty office? Why were they alone there? How would that happen?

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by Squawk Box
Reposted:

Lynn Gweeny
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2005
Location:
Posts: 4119


Lauterbach met with military prosecutors in December to discuss pursuing rape charges against Laurean, said Kevin Marks, the supervisory special agent for the Naval Criminal Investigative Service at Camp Lejeune. Prosecutors believed they had enough evidence to argue that the case should go to a court martial, he said.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/2287295/


Lauterbach met with military prosecutors in December to discuss pursuing rape charges against Laurean, said Kevin Marks, supervisory agent with the Naval Criminal Investigative Service at Camp Lejeune. He said military prosecutors believed they had enough evidence to argue that the case should go to trial.

http://tinyurl.com/3avfdn

=============================

Wonder what they have? Abuse by authority is my guess. jmo
Cesar is sure worried about that rape charge for some reason. jmo [/*]

Lets just say Cesar had authority over maria (even though they were both nothing more than two clerks in the same office--he had no authority over her). If they had no other proof of the rape, how would they have proof of abuse by authority? One cannot prove or disprove the other. JMO

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by marinewife5


Lets just say Cesar had authority over maria (even though they were both nothing more than two clerks in the same office--he had no authority over her). If they had no other proof of the rape, how would they have proof of abuse by authority? One cannot prove or disprove the other. JMO [/*]

They had something. What do you think that was? Do you suppose he told her she had to work late? Wouldn't there be a record if they worked late?

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


OK they weren't standing duty, but they were there alone. That is the point. Whatever they were there for, it happened there. jmo

What is your opinion what they were there for in the duty office? Why were they alone there? How would that happen? [/*]

In Agent Ciccarelli's context, the duty office is where they performed the duties of their duty assignment. Neither would have keys to that office. So either someone else was there or Maria made it up, and Agent Ciccarelli does mention that that info came from Maria herself. I do not buy into an actual "superior officer" being in on it. JMO

[baywench]

Originally posted by marinewife5


In Agent Ciccarelli's context, the duty office is where they performed the duties of their duty assignment. Neither would have keys to that office. So either someone else was there or Maria made it up, and Agent Ciccarelli does mention that that info came from Maria herself. I do not buy into an actual "superior officer" being in on it. JMO [/*]

ITA MW5, I think the whole superior officer thing is coming from the misunderstanding of CL being a rank above her. I don't see this being a love triangle. She slept with someone else (maybe) doesn't mean regarding her death IMO

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by marinewife5


In Agent Ciccarelli's context, the duty office is where they performed the duties of their duty assignment. Neither would have keys to that office. So either someone else was there or Maria made it up, and Agent Ciccarelli does mention that that info came from Maria herself. I do not buy into an actual "superior officer" being in on it. JMO [/*]

No, I don't either. It was Cesar all the way. I believe Maria, and they had enough evidence to go forward. I don't believe for one minute it was impossible for them to be there alone. I bet Cesar arranged that.

jmo

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


They had something. What do you think that was? Do you suppose he told her she had to work late? Wouldn't there be a record if they worked late? [/*]

He had no where near the authority to tell her she had to work late. He would have had to have been her SNCOIC or OIC. He had no keys and he couldn't have worked late, and as a clerk, the only work either would have had was what their sncoic or oic gave them. Before my husband, an OIC, leaves, he has to make sure that the entire office is empty and locked. A cpl does not have keys to an office. if my husband cannot do it, the SNCOIC does it. They are the only two with keys. Some offices, more than 2 would have keys, but they would be SNCO's or Officers. Cesar was an NCO, and had two more promotions before he would be a SNCO. Agent Ciccarelli at the time was simply reciting the facts as they were reported, not as the investigation found them to be, as the investigation was considered ongoing. JMO

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


No, I don't either. It was Cesar all the way. I believe Maria, and they had enough evidence to go forward. I don't believe for one minute it was impossible for them to be there alone.

jmo [/*]

unfortunately, whether or not you believe it doesn't change what it is. and you can continue to see things the way you want to. that's your right. jmo

[caejde]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


I agree. She didn't even know she was pregnant until the end of July. IIRC Maria just thought she was ill.

She told her mother she was raped before she found out she was pregnant. Makes no sense to me.

Right there is a so called mysterious twist and turn compliments of this board.

JMO [/*]

Actually it was the end of June...not July.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by marinewife5


unfortunately, whether or not you believe it doesn't change what it is. and you can continue to see things the way you want to. that's your right. jmo [/*]

Yes, it is what it is and the MC is not perfect. Marines are not perfect. Rules are broken. Things happen. Cesar was and is worried about that rape charge.

JMO

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by caejde


Actually it was the end of June...not July. [/*]

Yes, I know. I made a mistake. Lynn posted a link. It was in reference to Mary being told by Maria she was raped before knowing she was pregnant. She told Mary on May 10th and found out she was pregnant on June 27th. It was still a long time after she told Mary that she found out she was pregnant.

jmo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


Yes, it is what it is and the MC is not perfect. Marines are not perfect. Rules are broken. Things happen. Cesar was and is worried about that rape charge.

JMO [/*]

In his email I never saw the word rape mentioned in it anywhere. He knows it the military wanted to they can try him for Gabriel's death or for violating Maria's civil rights, they could. He also knows that the military can try him for being a deserter and he can be sent to Leavenworth for any of these offenses.

I saw nothing that led me to believe he was talking about the rape. Imo the rape allegation is history.

imoo

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


In his email I never saw the word rape mentioned in it anywhere. He knows it the military wanted to they can try him for Gabriel's death or for violating Maria's civil rights, they could. He also knows that the military can try him for being a deserter and he can be sent to Leavenworth for any of these offenses.

I saw nothing that led me to believe he was talking about the rape. Imo the rape allegation is history.

imoo [/*]

ITA. IMO the rape charge is the last thing on CAL's mind now. He has much bigger fish to fry and he knows it.

[baywench]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


No, I don't either. It was Cesar all the way. I believe Maria, and they had enough evidence to go forward. I don't believe for one minute it was impossible for them to be there alone. I bet Cesar arranged that.

jmo [/*]

I thought you were moving on and didn't want to talk about the victimology anymore, just the murder? JMO

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by Marcia3


ITA. IMO the rape charge is the last thing on CAL's mind now. He has much bigger fish to fry and he knows it. [/*]

Count me in as agreeing with both you and GB on that.

[caejde]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


Does someone always stand duty overnight? [/*]

AT the barracks! Not their work sections.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Admin and/or personnel clerks are gone by 4:30-5:00 in the afternoon unless they are released earlier in the day. Plus if they were in fact working late, the entire section would be present, correct?

You know as well as I do that a Cpl. never holds the keys to the 'office'. Those are with the OIC, OOD or SNCO.


jmoo [/*]

Do we know who their OIC, OOD, AND SNCO are? Do we have their names and/or know anything about them?

Also, I would assume that the MC keeps records of who had night duty on what dates. Has anyone heard anything about these records for Mar 26 and April 10 or 11?

[caejde]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


Do we know who their OIC, OOD, AND SNCO are? Do we have their names and/or know anything about them?

Also, I would assume that the MC keeps records of who had night duty on what dates. Has anyone heard anything about these records for Mar 26 and April 10 or 11? [/*]

Duty at the barracks is not just a night duty. It is a 24/7/365...0800-0800. There are log books that are kept to show activity that is going on at the barracks. OOD and/or AOOD checks in through out the night at any given time. I'm positive the Marines have the log books as well as who did/did not have duty...but it's not public.

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


Yes, it is what it is and the MC is not perfect. Marines are not perfect. Rules are broken. Things happen. Cesar was and is worried about that rape charge.

JMO [/*]

Believe me, i'm well aware that the mc is not perfect. I simply do not see how they were there alone after working hours. We know that cesar may be worried about being prosecuted by the mc, but we aren't sure for what. I believe he lied when he said they had no sexual contact, so i'm sure he was worried about the investigation into the allegation. JMO

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Marcia3


ITA. IMO the rape charge is the last thing on CAL's mind now. He has much bigger fish to fry and he knows it. [/*]

Absolutely. He knows they could try him again by just calling it another offense. When it comes to murder they mostly indict them on violation of the victim's civil rights. That way double jeopardy does not come into the picture if they have been tried and convicted in State court.

I don't think they will try him though. I think that has to all be open and on the table before Mexico will let him be extradited and they don't like to release suspects who are going to be tried by military tribunals anyway.

I think the charges he has now is the charges he will have and there will be no added charges.

imoo

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by caejde


Duty at the barracks is not just a night duty. It is a 24/7/365...0800-0800. There are log books that are kept to show activity that is going on at the barracks. OOD and/or AOOD checks in through out the night at any given time. I'm positive the Marines have the log books as well as who did/did not have duty...but it's not public. [/*]

ok.. I obviously know nothing about this as I am non-military... but we discussed this a month or so ago in here... and I remember hearing that 3 people "stood duty"... and that one of them could take a break or something, leaving just two of them. sorry, typing slow here...

[gaelicpeas]

testing, testing... is anyone here?

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
testing, testing... is anyone here? [/*]
LOL, that's what I was wondering as I run in here every now and then and hit 'refresh' and no new posts :shrug:

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


ok.. I obviously know nothing about this as I am non-military... but we discussed this a month or so ago in here... and I remember hearing that 3 people "stood duty"... and that one of them could take a break or something, leaving just two of them. sorry, typing slow here... [/*]

I remember that also.

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Absolutely. He knows they could try him again by just calling it another offense. When it comes to murder they mostly indict them on violation of the victim's civil rights. That way double jeopardy does not come into the picture if they have been tried and convicted in State court.

I don't think they will try him though. I think that has to all be open and on the table before Mexico will let him be extradited and they don't like to release suspects who are going to be tried by military tribunals anyway.

I think the charges he has now is the charges he will have and there will be no added charges.

imoo [/*]

I think you're right based on what I have read so far about extradition from Mexico. IMO of course.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by strick10


I've alway said I think there was more than CAL involved in this partake in the actual murder (not meaning CSL as the other) and cover up. Maybe my theory is becoming somewhat of a reality. [/*]

I have thought so, too - that another male was helping Cesar in various & sundry ways.

[strick10]

Originally posted by IvySterling

LOL, that's what I was wondering as I run in here every now and then and hit 'refresh' and no new posts :shrug: [/*]

Everyone must be busy thinking right now. :)

[strick10]

Originally posted by Mimi428


I have thought so, too - that another male was helping Cesar in various & sundry ways. [/*]

Uh hugh.

[strick10]

http://onslowcrime.encblogs.com/?p=82#comments

the 7:08 pm comment may be of interest to some.

[crymeariver2006]

Okay, I'll bite.

IF there are two men (or persons) involved and LE is still having problems with the timeline, the moving of the vehicle, the cleanup, the coverup...etc....

Why are they not asking for tips or the public's help in finding said second "suspect"? Why are they continuing to say he acted alone?

:shrug:

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by strick10


Uh hugh. [/*]

Like the car on blocks..... ;)

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by strick10
http://onslowcrime.encblogs.com/?p=82#comments

the 7:08 pm comment may be of interest to some. [/*]
I read her comment on her blog earlier..........interesting theory!

[strick10]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006
Okay, I'll bite.

IF there are two men (or persons) involved and LE is still having problems with the timeline, the moving of the vehicle, the cleanup, the coverup...etc....

Why are they not asking for tips or the public's help in finding said second "suspect"? Why are they continuing to say he acted alone?

:shrug: [/*]

IMO because CAL is the only one that knows who else is involved if that in fact is true. I would hope the LE cannot completely seal the deal in regards to the case until CAL has spoken. Tips from the public would not help cause no one but CAL, Maria and whomever are the only ones that were witnesses. Don't think that other person would be talking. Who knows, maybe LE did find something but can't place it to anyone right now.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by strick10
http://onslowcrime.encblogs.com/?p=82#comments

the 7:08 pm comment may be of interest to some. [/*]

I read that. Either way you look at it, rape or not, it was still improper sexual contact between Maria and Cesar. I believe that Maria reported a rape (at her mother's insistence), maybe hesitated, hedged, and hem-hawed around and couldn't decide whether to go forward or not. The OIC was correct in reporting it higher up and let NCIS decide how to proceed.

As far as not doing a rape kit...how do you do a rape kit 30 days after the fact?

I'm keeping with the K.I.S.S. theory here and I'm not believing half the stuff that Lindell (or timmi) is insinuating.

[strick10]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Like the car on blocks..... ;) [/*]

and the first 24 of the 96

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by strick10


IMO because CAL is the only one that knows who else is involved if that in fact is true. I would hope the LE cannot completely seal the deal in regards to the case until CAL has spoken. Tips from the public would not help cause no one but CAL, Maria and whomever are the only ones that were witnesses. Don't think that other person would be talking. Who knows, maybe LE did find something but can't place it to anyone right now. [/*]

So Cesar could name anybody, even Christina and you think LE is going to buy that?

(I mean, some of us would....just sayin').

[IvySterling]

~snip
Originally posted by crymeariver2006
I'm not believing half the stuff that Lindell (or timmi) is insinuating. [/*]
They're wanting the hits and stupid posts!

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


I read that. Either way you look at it, rape or not, it was still improper sexual contact between Maria and Cesar. I believe that Maria reported a rape (at her mother's insistence), maybe hesitated, hedged, and hem-hawed around and couldn't decide whether to go forward or not. The OIC was correct in reporting it higher up and let NCIS decide how to proceed.

As far as not doing a rape kit...how do you do a rape kit 30 days after the fact?

I'm keeping with the K.I.S.S. theory here and I'm not believing half the stuff that Lindell (or timmi) is insinuating. [/*]

And while i have no link to provide, it is pure gossip, imo.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by marinewife5


And while i have no link to provide, it is pure gossip, imo. [/*]

I ran up the tin foil hat flag a while back.

:chicken:

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


I read that. Either way you look at it, rape or not, it was still improper sexual contact between Maria and Cesar. I believe that Maria reported a rape (at her mother's insistence), maybe hesitated, hedged, and hem-hawed around and couldn't decide whether to go forward or not. The OIC was correct in reporting it higher up and let NCIS decide how to proceed.

As far as not doing a rape kit...how do you do a rape kit 30 days after the fact?

I'm keeping with the K.I.S.S. theory here and I'm not believing half the stuff that Lindell (or timmi) is insinuating. [/*]

I am curious about the rape kit and forensic exam being done thirty days after the fact. What evidence would have been gleaned from doing either of those after that long period of time?



jmoo

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by IvySterling
~snip

They're wanting the hits and stupid posts! [/*]

Well at least RS answers questions there and he stopped answering any from here.
Just saying..............

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


I am curious about the rape kit and forensic exam being done thirty days after the fact. What evidence would have been gleaned from doing either of those after that long period of time?



jmoo [/*]

None whatsoever.

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


Well at least RS answers questions there and he stopped answering any from here.
Just saying.............. [/*]

True, but sadly, I can see the same thing happening over there. JMO

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


Well at least RS answers questions there and he stopped answering any from here.
Just saying.............. [/*]

I think it's more like we stopped sending them.

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


I ran up the tin foil hat flag a while back.

:chicken: [/*]


WHAT? I can't hear you! The popcorn is still popping (i was in a hurry!):biggrin:

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


I think it's more like we stopped sending them. [/*]

Or a little more like some are still sending in emails and/or questions to the good CRS. ;)

Just saying...........

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


I ran up the tin foil hat flag a while back.

:chicken: [/*]

Before or after the rug? :biggrin:

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Before or after the rug? :biggrin: [/*]

Don't be getting butter on the rug!

:no:

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Or a little more like some are still sending in emails and/or questions to the good CRS. ;)

Just saying........... [/*]


I see, some of us send emails, some of us send letters with photos....

Just sayin'.......

:D

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by marinewife5



WHAT? I can't hear you! The popcorn is still popping (i was in a hurry!):biggrin: [/*]

Here's yer crown, what's yer hurry?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/teamkitty/1621707616/

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


I think it's more like we stopped sending them. [/*]

No, he wouldn't answer the second group of questions we sent him remember? He said to send him theories.

[daniel green]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


snipped


. Imo the rape allegation is history.

imoo [/*]

Oh, yeah.

That's done and over.

[gaelicpeas]

I dunno.... this latest theory that maybe another, more senior officer, was involved is not any more far out than some other theories posited here (some of them mine). I am not so quick to disregard this as, IMO, it explains some of the other inconsistencies in this case that we have beenn struggling with.

Again, who was their OIC, ETC, ETC (I forgot all the acronyms, but there were 3 officers).

[caejde]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


ok.. I obviously know nothing about this as I am non-military... but we discussed this a month or so ago in here... and I remember hearing that 3 people "stood duty"... and that one of them could take a break or something, leaving just two of them. sorry, typing slow here... [/*]

I can only say how it was at my unit. My unit had 800+ Marines/Sailors-we had 5 companies of Marines and 2 companies of Sailors. We had 2 sets of barracks-3 decks each. There were 2 duties-an NCO and a non NCO for each deck. One company per deck. There is a duty driver-to make runs to the airport to bring in newbies, take the OOD/AOOD to make their rounds to check on the unit's work sections to make sure they are properly secured. The AOOD-Assistant Officer of the Day-is the ranking of Sgt. through SNCO. The OOD-Officer of the Day-is a SNCO through officer. The OOD/AOOD/duty driver stayed at the appointed "duty shack". For my unit it was a room in our main Headquarters-for the unit-building. Throughout the night the OOD/AOOD would check in at the barracks--never know when they would stop by. So as for the barracks, there was always 2 Marines for each deck and there was always one per deck on duty at all times. They were relieved to eat and sleep. Again, all my experience.

[daniel green]

Originally posted by strick10


And if I'm wrong I'll eat a roasted chicken, don't like crow. I'm not saying I believe everything in the note CAL left behind but i wouldn't doubt that someone else was w/ CAL maybe having some beers while everyone was at the XMas party. [/*]

Really? You really think that there was another guy there and that he was also involved in the murder? :confused:

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
<snipped>

Again, who was their OIC, ETC, ETC (I forgot all the acronyms, but there were 3 officers). [/*]

The only one that I have seen in print is WO Wright (and his is in the 1/7/08 SW/Affidavit).

(WO=Warrant Officer)

jmoo

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


Here's yer crown, what's yer hurry?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/teamkitty/1621707616/ [/*]

Oh, I look so purdy in it :tongue:

I would say we need to stick to the facts in this case, but we have so few...

[sunstar]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


I am curious about the rape kit and forensic exam being done thirty days after the fact. What evidence would have been gleaned from doing either of those after that long period of time?



jmoo [/*]
Maybe if it had been a forcible rape there would still be some indication of that, like healing injuries. We don't know all the details of what she told the medical personnel or others about what supposedly happened. :shrug:

[daniel green]

Originally posted by hinman
Had to leave for a minute so I have not caught up.

A possible theory popped into my head while I was out and if anyone else came up with it already sorry, I am behind.

So could our possible mystery guy( father of Maria's baby maybe) be buddy's of caesar's and they are in on this together. [/*]

Wait.

You are saying that the mystery man got CL, who ML had accused of rape, to go in on her murder? :confused:

[daniel green]

Originally posted by sunstar

Maybe if it had been a forcible rape there would still be some indication of that, like healing injuries. We don't know all the details of what she told the medical personnel or others about what supposedly happened. :shrug: [/*]

No.

A rape kit after a month would be absolutely useless.

[henry]

Originally posted by marinewife5


True, but sadly, I can see the same thing happening over there. JMO [/*]

what :confused: no way . . . still waiting for more poster question(s)

[strick10]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


So Cesar could name anybody, even Christina and you think LE is going to buy that?

(I mean, some of us would....just sayin'). [/*]

No I don't mean Christina. They've already said they have nothing on her taking part in the murder or burying of Maria. He couldn't just name anyone, but, if there is someone else involved then he's not going to hesitate to take everyone involved down with him. IMO of course.

[daniel green]

Originally posted by bkwits


But, why make up a story about being raped is she was not pregnant?

snipped: [/*]

Why make up a story about her father killing her little brother?

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by sunstar

Maybe if it had been a forcible rape there would still be some indication of that, like healing injuries. We don't know all the details of what she told the medical personnel or others about what supposedly happened. :shrug: [/*]
IMO if she has sustained any tears or other she would have known it and been examined even though there would have no longer been any DNA to analyze.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


The only one that I have seen in print is WO Wright (and his is in the 1/7/08 SW/Affidavit).

(WO=Warrant Officer)

jmoo [/*]

thanks, Nuttin. I remember his/her name... but I remember doing some searching on that name and there seemed to be more than one Wright as WO.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by marinewife5


Oh, I look so purdy in it :tongue:

I would say we need to stick to the facts in this case, but we have so few... [/*]

I think you've spilled popcorn in your mailbox.

[sunstar]

Originally posted by Mimi428


I have thought so, too - that another male was helping Cesar in various & sundry ways. [/*]
Did we ever learn if he really has a brother living nearby?

[strick10]

Originally posted by daniel green


Really? You really think that there was another guy there and that he was also involved in the murder? :confused: [/*]

Just a theory of mine dg. But yes I do think there was someone else there.

[sunstar]

Originally posted by IvySterling

IMO if she has sustained any tears or other she would have known it and been examined even though there would have no longer been any DNA to analyze. [/*]
And I honestly think she wouldn't have waited a month to report it if she'd been injured. MOO :)

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


I think you've spilled popcorn in your mailbox. [/*]

i already ate it all

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


I think you've spilled popcorn in your mailbox. [/*]

i already ate it all

[daniel green]

Originally posted by baywench
Although the paternity of the father is interesting, I do not think it will be pursued if CL is not the father. I am thinking out loud....there has to be a clue in the note. "I am leaving because I can't take the military anymore". I am pondering this. JMMO [/*]

I agree. That if CL is not the father then it won't be pursued. To what end?

:eek: Holy moley. So they really have doubts that CL is the father?

Wow.

That does make the goodbye note a lot more interesting.

[daniel green]

Originally posted by strick10


Just a theory of mine dg. But yes I do think there was someone else there. [/*]

I dunno about that. That would mean a whole other person the police know nothing about? And another person who can talk but hasn't?

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by marinewife5


i already ate it all [/*]

I think we got it the first time.:D

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


I think we got it the first time.:D [/*]

I just wanted to be sure:biggrin:

oh, and i my mouse got a little excited over all this talk about popcorn. he likes popcorn.

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by daniel green


I dunno about that. That would mean a whole other person the police know nothing about? And another person who can talk but hasn't? [/*]

I wouldn't talk if i was involved. jmo

[daniel green]

Originally posted by Marcia3


Maybe she knew she was pregnant? She didn't tell her mother until a month after the alleged assault, so it's possible. [/*]

I think the answer is that ML knew she had been having unprotected sex.

[baywench]

Originally posted by daniel green


I agree. That if CL is not the father then it won't be pursued. To what end?

:eek: Holy moley. So they really have doubts that CL is the father?

Wow.

That does make the goodbye note a lot more interesting. [/*]

Well yeah, but it's that guy from off the cuff. I don't know how I feel about him. Little too full of himself and sees to find it a game to let a little out at a time. Is it or isn't it? Just tell us. If you can't don't blog. Yikes, sorry for the rant, I just realized this is how I feel!!!! JMO

[caejde]

Originally posted by IvySterling

IMO if she has sustained any tears or other she would have known it and been examined even though there would have no longer been any DNA to analyze. [/*]

I think if there still would have been any injuries such as tearing that is still healing...I think upon examination it would have showed.

[sunstar]

Originally posted by daniel green


I dunno about that. That would mean a whole other person the police know nothing about? And another person who can talk but hasn't? [/*]
I don't know either. If there was someone else with him, why didn't that person go pick up the stuff at Lowe's instead of the friend he took?

[daniel green]

Originally posted by marinewife5


I wouldn't talk if i was involved. jmo [/*]

Yep. The old nobody talks everybody walks.

I just seriously doubt that there was another person outside the L's who were at the house and in on the murder.

[daniel green]

Originally posted by baywench


Well yeah, but it's that guy from off the cuff. I don't know how I feel about him. Little too full of himself and sees to find it a game to let a little out at a time. Is it or isn't it? Just tell us. If you can't don't blog. Yikes, sorry for the rant, I just realized this is how I feel!!!! JMO [/*]

That's my feeling about him, too.

All his little hints and his self-congratulatory pats on the back re "breaking the story."

[daniel green]

Originally posted by sunstar

I don't know either. If there was someone else with him, why didn't that person go pick up the stuff at Lowe's instead of the friend he took? [/*]

Great point!

Why involve another person altogether?

[baywench]

Originally posted by daniel green


Yep. The old nobody talks everybody walks.

I just seriously doubt that there was another person outside the L's who were at the house and in on the murder. [/*]

Makes no sense to me either. We have been all over this case from the beginning and I just don't think that would have been missed by LE or the incredible amateur detectives of the boards! I KNOW that LE is saying otherwise but I think the only other person involved is little Ms. Christina. JMO

[baywench]

Originally posted by daniel green


That's my feeling about him, too.

All his little hints and his self-congratulatory pats on the back re "breaking the story." [/*]

EXACTLY!

[daniel green]

Originally posted by Mimi428


Exactly. If she was not pregnant, she had no reason whatsoever to 'make up a rape story' to cover up the fact that she had been having consensual sex & was pg as a result of it.
snipped [/*]

We have no clue why ML told that story.

A frequent reason for claiming rape, however, IS because the person has had unprotected sex.

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by marinewife5


I wouldn't talk if i was involved. jmo [/*]
I wouldn't either if I had been there throwin down a few brews!

[daniel green]

Originally posted by baywench


EXACTLY! [/*]

Or his eager "call me day or night!" posts re if anyone knows anything.

That is so annoying.

[daniel green]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


Yes, but....

If Cesar and Maria had unprotected sex and she only worried about being pregnant after she finds out he's married.... (IMO) she needed a cover story just in case she was pregnant. Not so 1950's for a girl raised in what Mary herself described as a "deeply religious", "strict Catholic" family. [/*]

Bless you.

ML, may she RIP, called her mother so many times a day her mom screened her calls. Her mom did not think she was capable of taking care of a baby. Her mom said she was bipolar.

No matter what decade, under those circumstances and that relationship and her sister being a young pregnant girl, it just makes total sense.

[sunstar]

Originally posted by daniel green


Great point!

Why involve another person altogether? [/*]
If there was anyone, it'd be family or someone very close to him, in my opinion. :)

[sunstar]

Originally posted by baywench


Makes no sense to me either. We have been all over this case from the beginning and I just don't think that would have been missed by LE or the incredible amateur detectives of the boards! I KNOW that LE is saying otherwise but I think the only other person involved is little Ms. Christina. JMO [/*]
I agree!

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by daniel green


Bless you.

ML, may she RIP, called her mother so many times a day her mom screened her calls. Her mom did not think she was capable of taking care of a baby. Her mom said she was bipolar.

No matter what decade, under those circumstances and that relationship and her sister being a young pregnant girl, it just makes total sense. [/*]

Amen, amen. Tough no matter when it happens, in a family dynamic as I interpret the Lauterbachs.

[strick10]

Originally posted by daniel green


I dunno about that. That would mean a whole other person the police know nothing about? And another person who can talk but hasn't? [/*]

Could be there is another person, this is a strange case....I just don't know why I've thought that for awhile now, I'm still trying to piece sense out of it. I keep going back to the possibility that Maria was buried on the 14th. I'm drawn to that particular event. I'm sure I can come up w/ a theory that will make actual sense and my incomplete theory will all come together.....or not.

[daniel green]

Originally posted by caejde
Am I the only one a little surprised by this??

I mean of course the due date didn't match up with the dates of the alleged rapes. But that made me think that either the conception date was wrong or that she and Cesar had sex in May sometime but she didn't report that.

Maybe Cesar was right and that he never had sex with her--which I don't believe--because why would Maria point him out if they hadn't? [/*]

No, you are not the only one surprised.

WOW.

Just WOW.

Maybe CL was being truthful. :eek:

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by daniel green


I think the answer is that ML knew she had been having unprotected sex. [/*]

I remember more than one of my girlfriends in high school and college who went through pregnancy scares...and when we would ask them through their tears if they had "used anything" they would shake their heads no. It was the 70's and "good girls" didn't use birth control because that would have implied planning ahead. IOW, they would have known that sex was on the agenda and that would negate the "good girl" status.

I see Maria in much the same way. JMO, but even in 2007 it was possible to still carry around that baggage.

[strick10]

Originally posted by daniel green


Great point!

Why involve another person altogether? [/*]

Now that would be kind of dumb to be seen together afterward. The murder happened now let's not be seen together or talk to each other again. I've been working on this theory for awhile and it is slow coming. Maybe I'm completely wrong but I like entertaining the idea that there possibly was someone else there.

[Janz]

Originally posted by Marcia3


I remember more than one of my girlfriends in high school and college who went through pregnancy scares...and when we would ask them through their tears if they had "used anything" they would shake their heads no. It was the 70's and "good girls" didn't use birth control because that would have implied planning ahead. IOW, they would have known that sex was on the agenda and that would negate the "good girl" status.

I see Maria in much the same way. JMO, but even in 2007 it was possible to still carry around that baggage. [/*]

I agree with you about the "baggage'! I was totally stunned by the bombshell of this morning!! I don`t know, but I can only see Christina as an accomplice! I don`t or cannot imagine anyone else in that home, the night of the 14th.

[strick10]

Originally posted by sunstar

If there was anyone, it'd be family or someone very close to him, in my opinion. :) [/*]

It would have to be. Someone he had a strong bond with. Someone that would do anything for him.

[daniel green]

Originally posted by Squawk Box
I've been thinking the DA and LE came out with some information on Christina because they are seeing her bashed so much and know she doesn't deserve it. Maybe trying to help her cope without such bad publicity. I would think by now they see what they said didn't matter at all.

JMO [/*]

Yes. That is so like LE to remedy "bashing" like that. :rolleyes:

[baywench]

Originally posted by Marcia3


Amen, amen. Tough no matter when it happens, in a family dynamic as I interpret the Lauterbachs. [/*]


Maria's relationship with her mother in particular and her weird family dynamic in general (dad/uncle thing is freaky) has always been the key to this whole case for me. I don't know how or why yet but I will. JMO

[strick10]

Originally posted by daniel green


No, you are not the only one surprised.

WOW.

Just WOW.

Maybe CL was being truthful. :eek: [/*]

But, but, at the presser....they said CSL was angry and upset cause CAL had cheated on her......:)

[baywench]

Originally posted by daniel green


Yes. That is so like LE to remedy "bashing" like that. :rolleyes: [/*]

Well you know there are an awful lot of victims....lil ole CSL was probably in a fit of the vapors over it. JMO

[sunstar]

Originally posted by strick10


It would have to be. Someone he had a strong bond with. Someone that would do anything for him. [/*]
Only one person comes to mind if he doesn't have any family around there. ;)

[baywench]

Originally posted by strick10


But, but, at the presser....they said CSL was angry and upset cause CAL had cheated on her......:) [/*]


Now they just didn't want her worrying her pretty lil head about all that murder and bury stuff. Taint ladylike. JMO

[Janz]

Originally posted by baywench



Maria's relationship with her mother in particular and her weird family dynamic in general (dad/uncle thing is freaky) has always been the key to this whole case for me. I don't know how or why yet but I will. JMO [/*]

For me as well, Can`t yet put my mind around what it is about Maria`s family and why in giving the circumstances of Maria and her sister`s adoption was it necessary to mention they had been abandoned? This was not necessary. IMO.

[strick10]

Originally posted by baywench


Well you know there are an awful lot of victims....lil ole CSL was probably in a fit of the vapors over it. JMO [/*]

I know I'm probably gonna look idiotic but I've got to ask. What the heck is "in a fit of vapors"?

[strick10]

Originally posted by sunstar

Only one person comes to mind if he doesn't have any family around there. ;) [/*]

Well that's the obvious but many times Marines form very strong bonds with other Marines. It's hard to explain unless you've seen it.

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by baywench



Now they just didn't want her worrying her pretty lil head about all that murder and bury stuff. Taint ladylike. JMO [/*]

My my Miss Scarlett. I don't know nothin' about burying no bodies! :D

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by strick10


It would have to be. Someone he had a strong bond with. Someone that would do anything for him. [/*]

or...as has been suggested elsewhere... someone he took orders from.....

[sunstar]

Originally posted by strick10


Well that's the obvious but many times Marines form very strong bonds with other Marines. It's hard to explain unless you've seen it. [/*]
I'll believe you and you're right that's something I don't know about, but I thought that usually happened when they've been in combat together and maybe saved one another's life. :shrug:

[strick10]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


or...as has been suggested elsewhere... someone he took orders from..... [/*]

maybe but I doubt it.

[strick10]

Originally posted by sunstar

I'll believe you and you're right that's something I don't know about, but I thought that usually happened when they've been in combat together and maybe saved one another's life. :shrug: [/*]

It happens all the time in or out of war. Those bonds are made and it takes alot to break them even after they're done serving. Marines have a strong brothership with one another whether they know each other or not but sometimes that brotherhood between two Marines that know each other well reaches an even deeper level of brotherhood.

[daniel green]

Originally posted by Janz


For me as well, Can`t yet put my mind around what it is about Maria`s family and why in giving the circumstances of Maria and her sister`s adoption was it necessary to mention they had been abandoned? This was not necessary. IMO. [/*]

TOTALLY unecessary.

[strick10]

I'm out folks. Gotta rest the peepers. Y'all have a great evening. :seeya:

[daniel green]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


or...as has been suggested elsewhere... someone he took orders from..... [/*]

You mean a superior having CL kills ML?????? :confused:

No way.

[IvySterling]

O/T warning:
Have you all heard the news that the charges have been dismissed in the Marine Widow case in San Diego ?

[sunstar]

Originally posted by strick10


It happens all the time in or out of war. Those bonds are made and it takes alot to break them even after they're done serving. Marines have a strong brothership with one another whether they know each other or not but sometimes that brotherhood between two Marines that know each other well reaches an even deeper level of brotherhood. [/*]
Thanks for the insight! :patriot:

[baywench]

Originally posted by strick10


I know I'm probably gonna look idiotic but I've got to ask. What the heck is "in a fit of vapors"? [/*]

LOL, it's a fainting spell.....revived by smelling salts.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Janz


For me as well, Can`t yet put my mind around what it is about Maria`s family and why in giving the circumstances of Maria and her sister`s adoption was it necessary to mention they had been abandoned? This was not necessary. IMO. [/*]

I found so many things said that seemed so unnecessary. Why put out there that Maria was a loner, had few friends and had struggled for years. Why stress that even her family knew she had credibility issues and would lie when backed into a corner? Why talk about an adoption that happened when Maria was just 19 months old. Why was it even necessary that it be stressed Maria was an adopted child in the first place? Why didn't Mary just say I am her "mother" and let that be it. What difference did that make or have to do with anything?

I just found some of the comments so hurtful and demeaning to Maria.

If I hadn't known better I would have thought this was coming from Cesar's mother instead..... in an attempt to diminish Maria's worth but it came from her very own mother and uncle. I still cant believe all the negative or confidential things that have been said. Things that had no place even being mentioned. It was like they held Maria up to ridicule and then they began to re-write history trying to erase their own words. My heart aches for Maria and I know how hurt she would have felt if she knew all that had been said about her private life by her own family.

Those things too are one of the bizarre things in this case among so many other things.

imoo

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by IvySterling
O/T warning:
Have you all heard the news that the charges have been dismissed in the Marine Widow case in San Diego ? [/*]

Cynthia Sommers? Really.....oh my my my...

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by strick10
I'm out folks. Gotta rest the peepers. Y'all have a great evening. :seeya: [/*]

:seeya:

[IvySterling]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by strick10
I'm out folks. Gotta rest the peepers. Y'all have a great evening. [/*]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nite strick

:seeya:

[nuttintodo]

Night strick! Have a good one. :seeya:

[sunstar]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I found so many things said that seemed so unnecessary. Why put out there that Maria was a loner, had few friends and had struggled for years. Why stress that even her family knew she had credibility issues and would lie when backed into a corner? Why talk about an adoption that happened when Maria was just 19 months old. Why was it even necessary that it be stressed Maria was an adopted child in the first place? Why didn't Mary just say I am her "mother" and let that be it. What difference did that make or have to do with anything?

I just found some of the comments so hurtful and demeaning to Maria.

If I hadn't known better I would have thought this was coming from Cesar's mother instead..... in an attempt to diminish Maria's worth but it came from her very own mother and uncle. I still cant believe all the negative or confidential things that have been said. Things that had no place even being mentioned. It was like they held Maria up to ridicule and then they began to re-write history trying to erase their own words. My heart aches for Maria and I know how hurt she would have felt if she knew all that had been said about her private life by her own family.

Those things too are one of the bizarre things in this case among so many other things.

imoo [/*]
I'm with you. Nothing that was said helped find Maria or added anything to why she was killed so unnecessarily. I feel so sorry for her, for what she was probably going through right before her murder, like the decision to leave the Marines and buying the bus ticket to go halfway across the country when she was 8 mo. pregnant. She must have felt so let down by everyone. :(

[hinman]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Cynthia Sommers? Really.....oh my my my... [/*]I always believed there was no proof in that case.

I believed she was innocent,.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


:seeya: [/*]

Did you see that Cynthia Sommers is going home tonight????

That's wonderful news. NO arsenic was found.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by hinman
I always believed there was no proof in that case.

I believed she was innocent,. [/*]

You weren't the only one hinman. I thought the same exact thing.

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Did you see that Cynthia Sommers is going home tonight????

That's wonderful news. NO arsenic was found. [/*]

I just saw that! Holy Moly! I never thought she was guilty!

:beer:

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Did you see that Cynthia Sommers is going home tonight????

That's wonderful news. NO arsenic was found. [/*]

Yes, I did. It is good to know that she is freed if there was no arsenic found. However I will never believe she loved her husband.

But it is a good day for justice.

They said the DA dropped the charges.

imoo

[martha]

Well I am so lost on all of this so I guess if I have time from trying to do some house work I will try to catch up tomorrow. I am lost for words right now. no one knows what is going on and everyone is just guessing. I don;t know what to think about mary l i know i would never have ask my daughter to give her baby up no matter what. just could not do that. If she could not have keep the baby then I would have taken it. This is a mixed up story right from the start but killing was not the way out. never is. It is so very bad to lose someone you love and cant bring them back. jmho :rose:

[daniel green]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I found so many things said that seemed so unnecessary. Why put out there that Maria was a loner, had few friends and had struggled for years. Why stress that even her family knew she had credibility issues and would lie when backed into a corner? Why talk about an adoption that happened when Maria was just 19 months old. Why was it even necessary that it be stressed Maria was an adopted child in the first place? Why didn't Mary just say I am her "mother" and let that be it. What difference did that make or have to do with anything?

snipped

imoo [/*]

It was disgusting to me. But it was a window into the mother's soul for me.

[caejde]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


I just saw that! Holy Moly! I never thought she was guilty!

:beer: [/*]

I don't know the case at all...I'm so behind!

[baywench]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I found so many things said that seemed so unnecessary. Why put out there that Maria was a loner, had few friends and had struggled for years. Why stress that even her family knew she had credibility issues and would lie when backed into a corner? Why talk about an adoption that happened when Maria was just 19 months old. Why was it even necessary that it be stressed Maria was an adopted child in the first place? Why didn't Mary just say I am her "mother" and let that be it. What difference did that make or have to do with anything?

I just found some of the comments so hurtful and demeaning to Maria.

If I hadn't known better I would have thought this was coming from Cesar's mother instead..... in an attempt to diminish Maria's worth but it came from her very own mother and uncle. I still cant believe all the negative or confidential things that have been said. Things that had no place even being mentioned. It was like they held Maria up to ridicule and then they began to re-write history trying to erase their own words. My heart aches for Maria and I know how hurt she would have felt if she knew all that had been said about her private life by her own family.

Those things too are one of the bizarre things in this case among so many other things.

imoo [/*]

Great post GB. My stepdad has been my DAD for 40 years now. I never would or did introduce him as my stepdad. That is odd. She seemed to hold Maria at arm's length and there is an implied sense that Maria is beholden and should be grateful there. IMO

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Cynthia Sommers? Really.....oh my my my... [/*]
Thank goodness she was granted a re-trial or she would have never seen her kids again except through that safety-glass.

[hinman]

Originally posted by caejde


I don't know the case at all...I'm so behind! [/*]Oh caejde, it was a good trial. I watched it got in many battles over her innocence.

I also got very far behind on house work:D

[caejde]

Originally posted by strick10


It happens all the time in or out of war. Those bonds are made and it takes alot to break them even after they're done serving. Marines have a strong brothership with one another whether they know each other or not but sometimes that brotherhood between two Marines that know each other well reaches an even deeper level of brotherhood. [/*]

That's true. I still talk to a couple people I worked with. One is a retired Gunny. We email and send pictures. He came to the hospital right after I had my first baby. His wife was just a doll too. My husband just got back in contact with several people he was in with--some live right close by. And he always said he'd have their back...but he did draw the line when it came to stuff like rape, etc..

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by hinman
Oh caejde, it was a good trial. I watched it got in many battles over her innocence.

I also got very far behind on house work:D [/*]

Which we all will behind on housework when this trial ever gets started.

:)

[caejde]

Originally posted by hinman
Oh caejde, it was a good trial. I watched it got in many battles over her innocence.

I also got very far behind on house work:D [/*]

Maybe I'll just have to go read the background.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by IvySterling

Thank goodness she was granted a re-trial or she would have never seen her kids again except through that safety-glass. [/*]

Hadn't she already lost custody of some of her children when she was living in Florida before she was arrested?

imoo

[hinman]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Hadn't she already lost custody of some of her children when she was living in Florida before she was arrested?

imoo [/*]I think so.

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by hinman
I think so. [/*]

i meant to tell you, i did measure from laureans to the repair/salvage place....4/10 of a mile one way. and i've asked around a little...wilson's knows every car and every part in that lot. a different car would have stood out, so if it was there, it wasn't there long. jmo

[hinman]

Originally posted by marinewife5


i meant to tell you, i did measure from laureans to the repair/salvage place....4/10 of a mile one way. and i've asked around a little...wilson's knows every car and every part in that lot. a different car would have stood out, so if it was there, it wasn't there long. jmo [/*]You are the best. Hmm so I wonder if maybe it was not there then.

[Miss Behavin]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I found so many things said that seemed so unnecessary. Why put out there that Maria was a loner, had few friends and had struggled for years. Why stress that even her family knew she had credibility issues and would lie when backed into a corner? Why talk about an adoption that happened when Maria was just 19 months old. Why was it even necessary that it be stressed Maria was an adopted child in the first place? Why didn't Mary just say I am her "mother" and let that be it. What difference did that make or have to do with anything?

I just found some of the comments so hurtful and demeaning to Maria.

If I hadn't known better I would have thought this was coming from Cesar's mother instead..... in an attempt to diminish Maria's worth but it came from her very own mother and uncle. I still cant believe all the negative or confidential things that have been said. Things that had no place even being mentioned. It was like they held Maria up to ridicule and then they began to re-write history trying to erase their own words. My heart aches for Maria and I know how hurt she would have felt if she knew all that had been said about her private life by her own family.

Those things too are one of the bizarre things in this case among so many other things.

imoo [/*]

I totally and completely agree with you! What a great post...

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by hinman
You are the best. Hmm so I wonder if maybe it was not there then. [/*]

he may have gotten away with after 8 or nine and picked it up by 6 or so in the morning...there are no gates, and i didn't see cameras, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have any. jmo

in his ad it says "24hour wrecking service". but we don't know if cesar knew that or not...it would make me :chicken: to mess around there

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by marinewife5


he may have gotten away with after 8 or nine and picked it up by 6 or so in the morning...there are no gates, and i didn't see cameras, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have any. jmo

in his ad it says "24hour wrecking service". but we don't know if cesar knew that or not...it would make me :chicken: to mess around there [/*]
Thanks so much for checking the place out for us mw. I don't remember if the person who said it was parked there mentioned if it had been confirmed or not, do you?

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by IvySterling

Thanks so much for checking the place out for us mw. I don't remember if the person who said it was parked there mentioned if it had been confirmed or not, do you? [/*]

no, it has not been confirmed to my knowledge. but i do believe it's "possible". and hinman, i had to buy another ruler...i wore the first one out measuring on the way back just to be sure i was correct. jmo

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by marinewife5


no, it has not been confirmed to my knowledge. but i do believe it's "possible". and hinman, i had to buy another ruler...i wore the first one out measuring on the way back just to be sure i was correct. jmo [/*]
Via PayPal sending you $$$ for a contractors measure tape :D

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by IvySterling

Via PayPal sending you $$$ for a contractors measure tape :D [/*]
thank you! i kept buying new cars so the odometer would be at zero, but by the time i got to NBryan, it had like 12 miles already.

i still get a creepy feeling seeing the laurean house. and i think he was a fool to keep moving it. moving the car, body in back yard. we live in swamp central by the atlantic ocean. jmo

[hinman]

Originally posted by marinewife5


no, it has not been confirmed to my knowledge. but i do believe it's "possible". and hinman, i had to buy another ruler...i wore the first one out measuring on the way back just to be sure i was correct. jmo [/*]:D With Ceasar being a Marine I could see him going to there to get rid of her car quickly until he thought of another place.

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by hinman
:D With Ceasar being a Marine I could see him going to there to get rid of her car quickly until he thought of another place. [/*]
i have a broken thing on the back of my suv...they do body work...i should stop by for an estimate and check the place out a little closer.....

[hinman]

Originally posted by marinewife5

i have a broken thing on the back of my suv...they do body work...i should stop by for an estimate and check the place out a little closer..... [/*] See if you see any cameras.

Is the place secluded? Where he would have time to drop the car off and not be noticed?

I know that you did not feel comfortable so you do not have to go if you do not want to.

I think I am going to head to bed. See you tomorrow.

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by hinman
See if you see any cameras.

Is the place secluded? Where he would have time to drop the car off and not be noticed?

I know that you did not feel comfortable so you do not have to go if you do not want to.

I think I am going to head to bed. See you tomorrow. [/*]

It isn't secluded, and it is on a main road that has lots of traffic. I don't mind going, but i will go next week when my daughter is back in school. i want to see if there are cameras. It would have been dark, so he may have pulled of leaving it there a few hours. plus i want to see how late at night they work there. jmo

[Kim]

WE JUST HAD AN EARTHQUAKE 5.4 IN INDIANA

[Kel65]

Originally posted by Kim
WE JUST HAD AN EARTHQUAKE 5.4 IN INDIANA [/*]

Felt it here in Louisville too.

[SavannahStar]

Glad you guys are safe!