On LKL now-Inside the compound

[wandering]

Heads up. CNN is interviewing the women who were sent back to the compound.

The reporter said they were invited in.

[wandering]

The man interviewed said this is nothing more than religious persecution.

The women say there was no one there that was forced into marriage, and younger than 16 is very rare.

They feel their rights were violated. They think the original call was a hoax, the call not made by a FLDS member.

[wandering]

Carolyn Jessop is on Anderson Cooper. She said Warren Jeffs kept lowering the marriage age, from 22, then 18, then 16, and was preparing to lower it to 14. Carolyn had a 14 year old daughter, and that is why she decided to escape.

[wandering]

Carolyn Jessop also said that Kathleen Jessop, who was interviewed tonight on Anderson Cooper, was the fifth Jessop wife, a "sister" wife of Carolyn, Carolyn being Jessop's fourth wife.

[wandering]

Here's the LKL transcript.


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0804/14/lkl.01.html

[awareness]

Thank you Wandering!!! lol cut/paste into Word its a 24 page document, I have some reading to do!

The 2 founding familes of the Short Creek/Colorado City area were the Barlows & Jessops. IIRC Carolyn married into the Jessops.

JMO that they're trying to minimize the damage by saying its rare that girls 16 or under are wed. Even if its "rare" it still means it does happen, and its very wrong IMO. Authories have said there's a few pregnant girls (younger teens), some with babies but they're having problems getting the girls to admit how old they are, who their parents are and who their husband is. I know Warren Jeffs has lowered the age, but his father Uncle Rulon did as well. Joseph Smith, Jr. allegedly had a 15 yr old plural wife, so they probably feel justified.

JMO/IMO

[awareness]

Thankfully it was only 11 pages on the polygamy segment.

These quotes I found interesting:

And one other important point today, Larry. We were looking at the number of women who got off the bus. Not all of the women who left this ranch have returned. State officials tell us that some of the women chose to stay behind and are now being kept at a safe place. They didn't say how many, but there were some of the women who chose not to come back to this compound, Larry.

---

ALLRED SOLOMON: Well, I think the thing that needs to be noticed is that there's a pecking order in these systems of life. The pecking order is that the one with the most power, usually the legal wife, controls the other women and often runs the show entirely, manipulating her husband to do the things with the other women that she would like to see done. I think Teressa can speak to that because she grew up in such a household. And as a result of standing up for her sister, Alyssa, she now stands in danger of losing her children to a system that is very punitive in its orientation.

=====================

Interesting to see that the 2 former FDLS ladies who were interviewed felt the children need to be reunited with their mothers. Maybe some of them do, but I dont think all of them should.

JMO/IMO

[wandering]

Originally posted by awareness
Thank you Wandering!!! lol cut/paste into Word its a 24 page document, I have some reading to do!

The 2 founding familes of the Short Creek/Colorado City area were the Barlows & Jessops. IIRC Carolyn married into the Jessops.

JMO that they're trying to minimize the damage by saying its rare that girls 16 or under are wed. Even if its "rare" it still means it does happen, and its very wrong IMO. Authories have said there's a few pregnant girls (younger teens), some with babies but they're having problems getting the girls to admit how old they are, who their parents are and who their husband is. I know Warren Jeffs has lowered the age, but his father Uncle Rulon did as well. Joseph Smith, Jr. allegedly had a 15 yr old plural wife, so they probably feel justified.

JMO/IMO [/*]YW. Yes Carolyn Jessop, and last night on Anderson Cooper she said that she was Jessop's fourth wife, and Kathleen, the one interviewed, was her "sister" wife, Jessop's fifth wife.

Anderson Cooper's show was very interesting. I tried to find the transcript, but no luck. Wondering if someone else could find it?

[Carol25]

Originally posted by awareness
Thankfully it was only 11 pages on the polygamy segment.

These quotes I found interesting:

And one other important point today, Larry. We were looking at the number of women who got off the bus. Not all of the women who left this ranch have returned. State officials tell us that some of the women chose to stay behind and are now being kept at a safe place. They didn't say how many, but there were some of the women who chose not to come back to this compound, Larry.

---

ALLRED SOLOMON: Well, I think the thing that needs to be noticed is that there's a pecking order in these systems of life. The pecking order is that the one with the most power, usually the legal wife, controls the other women and often runs the show entirely, manipulating her husband to do the things with the other women that she would like to see done. I think Teressa can speak to that because she grew up in such a household. And as a result of standing up for her sister, Alyssa, she now stands in danger of losing her children to a system that is very punitive in its orientation.

=====================

Interesting to see that the 2 former FDLS ladies who were interviewed felt the children need to be reunited with their mothers. Maybe some of them do, but I dont think all of them should.

JMO/IMO [/*]
Well, what if all or most of the men were found guilty of rape and never to be able to visit the ranch again. The compound would also be of limits to other FLDS members entering the compound. The children would have to attend public schools, the women would have to enter the outside world for their needs and the temple would be used for educating the ladies about the comminuty the would become a part of in the future.

The millions of dollars that the sect now has would be doled out as a sort of pension to each mother monthly for their needs according to the number of children they have and could get 0% loans for those who would like to attend private schools or higher education.

For religious services, they would find a church that would most meet their needs as everyone else does.

Hows that for a plan?

[Carol25]

Originally posted by essiemadge
my problem with the mormon church is that they are not taking any lead in helping these women and children. they are mormons, even though with some ideas outside the regular church. they should be the ones on the front lineup to help. why are they not? i have a problem with the struture in utah, which i understand is mainly controlled by the mormon church. these are their people. where is their indignation, their help. where are the mormon women who should be the first to be in line to help???? [/*]
You would certainly think so wouldn't you? I think this is a very good question....:shrug: Look at Senator Orrin Hatch...he bent over backwards looking the other way....FLDS is very rich. I just wonder how powerful?

[lotty]

JMO/IMO Just because this has been working in the back of my brain for a while...

1) Notice Kathleen Jessop isn't in front of the cameras, after her first few interviews.

2) With Kathleen's degree in history, do you think she ever heard of Lyssistrata at anytime in her education?

3) What on earth would ever happen to any of these women if they tried to have control of anything?

As always JMO/IMO

[walton]

Originally posted by grammybear
In response to questions as to the mormon church not doing anything. We are always there to help people but people needing help do not always want to put forth the effort to help themselves. As most of you probably know the FLDS is a splinter group from the mainstay LDS. When Utah wanted statehood the church did abolish plural marriage. That is why these people broke off into their own little religion.
The LDS church is not responsible for every person in the United States. They take care of their own. I am sure that if some of these women wanted out and did get out and asked the church for help many would be willing to help out.
President Hinkley did say many times that anyone in the church who commits polygamy will be excommunicated from the church.

The decision to continue the practice of plural marriage by the FLDS was a decision that they decided to follow. Nobody made then go with this splinter, every adult made that decisioon on their own.

Frankly I believe that the adults of the FLDS could and should have changed their ways and they should be helf accountable for those decisions. When they started abusing these children they stepped over the line, which is the problem. It is not about their religious beliefs. It is about crimes against children and for that they should have to take the punishment.

jmoo [/*]

grammy have you heard about the 8 hour meeting? Are you saying that President Taylor didn't have a "vision" ?

President Taylor had a "vision" ( the same kind of vision that Joseph Smith had) and it was in this vision that these men splinter off and continue the practice of Polygamy. They might loose some property, monies, and be chastized but they would get it all back.


Here is a little bit, but there is a lot more detailed sights out there about the story.
http://extras.sltrib.com/specials/polygamy/Timeline.asp

1886
LDS President John Taylor is allegedly visited by Joseph Smith and Jesus Christ, who confirmed to him the righteousness of polygamy. Fundamentalists say Taylor asked five men to ensure the practice lives on.

1912
Lorin C. Woolley, in a story told about a meeting with Taylor in the Woolley home, confirms LDS president’s account of a vision.

1929
Joseph Musser consolidates accounts of Taylor's 1886 vision, including Lorin Woolley's story. Most fundamentalists view this publication as the standard recounting of the event.


Now this is the same John Taylor that Salt Lake has so many statues of the man around town. Homes are named after him.

President Hinkley did say many times that anyone in the church who commits polygamy will be excommunicated from the church.

President Hinckley also said there no such thing as Mormon Fundamentalists. If they were never part of the LDS Church how can they be excommunicated?

The LDS Church isn't responsible for everyone. But they sure have held out their hand to many. They sure advertise that they are about children and family. Wouldn't it be nice if ALL Churches including the LDS reach their hands out to this cause? jmo




The LDS Church is just one "vision" away from practicing Polygamy like they did before. jmo

[walton]

grammy I agree that the LDS Church has done an awful lot.

I also agree that the Church has changed somewhat over the course of the years. The LDS has such a powerful history that I can't help but admire some of those pioneers that followed what they believed to be true.

I also admire President Hinckley and those that helped him with the issue of Mountain Meadows Massacre.

I don't agree that Polygamy was a necessity at anytime. The men could have taken care of the widows without sleeping with them. The men could have been fathers to the orphans without making more.

Josephs wife Emma was clearly upset. He hurt her and he hurt her deep. He did what he wanted to because he was selfish. jmo

Again I thank you for sharing with me your thoughts and your knowledge of the LDS Church.

[johnielee333]

i pray for all of the FLDS's. :rose:

[Carol25]

Originally posted by grammybear
It is too bad we cannot go back into the minds of these men who made these decisions, but we can't. So all we can do is speculate. Everyone in that era will have to meet their maker and then go with whatever the Lord says.

All through the bible there were men in power that did have plural wives if you will, but we cannot judge what happened back then. Knowing how I feel about polygamy I know I would not have gone along with it. I am too stubborn and always want to do things for myself. I worry about the older women in this group because they have no training no skills to support themselves, but we will all have to answer one day for things we have done in life. It is really hard for me to even contemplate how a mother could allow her children to abused and forced into these plural marriages. There are many women who are very strong and do right for their children, but I do not understand the weakness of someone to allow such things to go the way they did.

jmoo [/*]
In our culture, we predispose certainly qualities to "mother", It is possible that these Ladiies of the FLDS don't have these qualities due to their harsh and closed environment. Perhaps we should designate these ladies as "caretakers" rather than mothers. JMO

[johnielee333]

Originally posted by Carol25

In our culture, we predispose certainly qualities to "mother", It is possible that these Ladiies of the FLDS don't have these qualities due to their harsh and closed environment. Perhaps we should designate these ladies as "caretakers" rather than mothers. JMO [/*]

yes & its sad. i feel for the women too. :rose:

[johnielee333]

:seeya: :rose: :patriot: TO ALL OF YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!