Monday April 14, 2008 Daily Discussion

[Babes]

Good Morning Folks,

Cant wait to hear more news from Mexico -

Mary Lauterbach said, "Maybe we'll come to closer to the truth of what happened on December 14th



:seeya:

[SavannahStar]

Thoughts and prayers for Jan Powell's surgery today. :rose:

[n/t]

Good Morning!

Everyday is one step closer to justice for Maria and baby Gabriel. :rose:

A big thank you to Lynn for an awesome job on posting links and to those giving updates. It makes this case so much easier to follow for those of us at work. Thank you!

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by Babes
So Maria's car was moved multiple times - Who moved it? Where is the key? Where's the fingerprint results / forensic test on the car? Where is this car on the night of December 14th and 15th?

[/*]

Don't know the answers to the questions except I would think LE has the results of the fingerprint/forensics tests. But they have not been made public, apparently. I would assume Christina's prints are not on the auto, otherwise she would certainly be a suspect. :shrug:

[henry]

good morning everyone . . . babes, there's also a few missing posts from his "here's the deal" section . . . :confused:

i'm looking forward to strick10's post about the deserter info - thank you strick10 in advance! also(not directed to strick10 cause i'm sure they'll need some down time after that project) but wondering whether there's different spousal testimony rules (when both are active and/or enlisted) in the military courts. i keep on going back to why cesar is more afraid of the MC. i keep on thinking back to those 2 myspace(?) threats and what happened to the investigation . . . tia as i'm still tax-impaired today!

imo

[henry]

Originally posted by n/t
Good Morning!

Everyday is one step closer to justice for Maria and baby Gabriel. :rose:

A big thank you to Lynn for an awesome job on posting links and to those giving updates. It makes this case so much easier to follow for those of us at work. Thank you! [/*]

ditto!!!! and may i also add quite helpful to those of us that "work" at home :) :seeya:

[leah]

I read the boards daily and have kept up with your postings. One question that has bothered me that I haven't seen addressed is....Does anyone know if Christina even came home the night of Dec. 14th after the Christmas party? I know there was a lot of debate on yesterday's postings about CAL not having enough time to take care of all the things (dig a hole, clean up, paint) all before Christina got home from the party. Do you think it possible that they had had an argument and that's why CAL didn't go to the party....and that Christina didn't go home to her house and maybe stayed with her sister that night. This would have given CAL many hours to do all the cleaning up, painting, etc.
TIA for any replys.
Of course this is JMO

[cuppajoe]

Morning all.

Reports are that Christina got back from the party around 7:00 p.m. I believe. Couldn't CL have hid Maria's body and then buried her when he had more time? He probably used what little time he had to clean up the scene.

[leah]

Originally posted by cuppajoe
Morning all.

Reports are that Christina got back from the party around 7:00 p.m. I believe. Couldn't CL have hid Maria's body and then buried her when he had more time? He probably used what little time he had to clean up the scene. [/*]


I've seen the reports that she left the party at 7:00pm....are there any reports that state she came home to her house??

[cuppajoe]

Oh maybe I am confused I thought she got home at 7:00 P.M.

[leah]

Originally posted by cuppajoe
Oh maybe I am confused I thought she got home at 7:00 P.M. [/*]



Maybe I'm the one confused....Hopefully someone has the report to clear this up in my mind....
TIA

[strick10]

Originally posted by henry
good morning everyone . . . babes, there's also a few missing posts from his "here's the deal" section . . . :confused:

i'm looking forward to strick10's post about the deserter info - thank you strick10 in advance! also(not directed to strick10 cause i'm sure they'll need some down time after that project) but wondering whether there's different spousal testimony rules (when both are active and/or enlisted) in the military courts. i keep on going back to why cesar is more afraid of the MC. i keep on thinking back to those 2 myspace(?) threats and what happened to the investigation . . . tia as i'm still tax-impaired today!

imo [/*]
Lot's of earlier risers on this board!! Lynn Gwenny posted the MCO link regarding desertion on the Maria links board yesterday. I haven't had a chance to read but will find time today. Lynn G also posted a very useful site regarding desertion on the links page coming from Headquarters Marine Corps.

http://hqinet001.hqmc.usmc.mil/pp&o/PS/psl/corrections/absenteeCollection.asp

In regards to married Marines. I'm not sure if there's anything in writing or if there's anything written about spousal testimony, but IME my DH and I weren't considered married when wearing the uniform if that makes sense. Yes the MC was aware we were married but once we put on the uniform and/or reported to our appointed places we were simply considered Marines not a couple.

[Squawk Box]

I believe it is thought Christina left the party around 6:30 p and with the driving time arrived home at 7 pm.

jmo

[strick10]

Originally posted by Squawk Box
I believe it is thought Christina left the party around 6:30 p and with the driving time arrived home at 7 pm.

jmo [/*]

I believe you're right Squawk. IIRC LE reported that Christina arrived home around 7 pm.

[caejde]

Originally posted by strick10


I believe you're right Squawk. IIRC LE reported that Christina arrived home around 7 pm. [/*]

I believe it was Capt. Sutherland who stated that.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by Squawk Box
I believe it is thought Christina left the party around 6:30 p and with the driving time arrived home at 7 pm.

jmo [/*]

That seems to be the consensus of OPINION, but I can't recall if LE has ever specifically stated what time she arrived home. Perhaps someone with a better memory for that detail will help us clear up that confusion.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


Thanks for bringing this up, I don;'t think we EVER got an official return time, I think in the beginning we all SPECULATED 6:30 or so because we SPECULATED the kid was in daycare and dayscares last pick-ups are 6:30 and no later, at most daycare centers....I honestly think thats where the 6:30 timeframe came from- us- because I have never seen it in writing. hey, we could be correct, but a nice reliable time from LE would be very cool....

jmo [/*]

Greta asked Captain Sutherland that question and he is the one that confirmed she returned home around 7 pm.

She, like any lawyer asked him the direction question that only required a yes or no answer, iirc.

Something like (example) "Is it true that Christina came home around 7pm from the party that night?" He said "yes"

imoo

[cuppajoe]

If Maria Lauterbach really did commit suicide why didn't CL tell his wife as soon as she got home? Why would he hide that from her? This is one of the things that I don't understand and will cause CL many problems at trial I think.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by cuppajoe
If Maria Lauterbach really did commit suicide why didn't CL tell his wife as soon as she got home? Why would he hide that from her? This is one of the things that I don't understand and will cause CL many problems at trial I think. [/*]

I guess he didn't tell Christina as soon as she got home because it was simply a lie that Maria killed herself. We know she couldn't have delivered the blow to her own head that caved her skull in & killed her.

I can't imagine what the defense will be at trial, but my pure guess is that his attorneys will NOT even begin to suggest that Maria killed herself. I can see them attempting to shift the blame & say the DA can't prove that Cesar was the one who killed her, but I don't see the defense denying that the blow to the head was the cause of death.

JMO

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Greta asked Captain Sutherland that question and he is the one that confirmed she returned home around 7 pm.

She, like any lawyer asked him the direction question that only required a yes or no answer, iirc.

Something like (example) "Is it true that Christina came home around 7pm from the party that night?" He said "yes"

imoo [/*]

A good follow-up question would have been, "did she leave the house after that at any time?"....was she gone long?.....etc. Alas, we just don't know that.

[strick10]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


A good follow-up question would have been, "did she leave the house after that at any time?"....was she gone long?.....etc. Alas, we just don't know that. [/*]

That would certainly clear up alot of suspicion surrounding CSL.

[henry]

Originally posted by strick10

Lot's of earlier risers on this board!! Lynn Gwenny posted the MCO link regarding desertion on the Maria links board yesterday. I haven't had a chance to read but will find time today. Lynn G also posted a very useful site regarding desertion on the links page coming from Headquarters Marine Corps.

http://hqinet001.hqmc.usmc.mil/pp&o/PS/psl/corrections/absenteeCollection.asp

In regards to married Marines. I'm not sure if there's anything in writing or if there's anything written about spousal testimony, but IME my DH and I weren't considered married when wearing the uniform if that makes sense. Yes the MC was aware we were married but once we put on the uniform and/or reported to our appointed places we were simply considered Marines not a couple. [/*]

thanks so much . . . going over there now to read - didn't mean to put you in an awkward position of doing it, but noticed your post last nite - i'll go & read so you have more time to help someone else ( non mc people - are you getting tired of us yet :) )- thanks, again!

[strick10]

Originally posted by henry


thanks so much . . . going over there now to read - didn't mean to put you in an awkward position of doing it, but noticed your post last nite - i'll go & read so you have more time to help someone else ( non mc people - are you getting tired of us yet :) )- thanks, again! [/*]

I'll save you some time henry. This particular MCO addressed deserters and what actions to take, chapter 5, but does not address those actions against persons that fail to report the whereabouts etc. of a deserter. I'll keep looking as well. Thanks for the help!

[strick10]

Caedje......other than the 5800.16A do you have any ideas where to look to find out the procedures for those knowing the status of deserters? (the 1620.3 or a DOD directive)?

[Mimi428]

This was the #1 question that nuttintodo sent to Rick Sutherland - & his answer.

1) Do you know when the Christmas party began and ended on 12/14/07 (the one where Christina Laurean attended but her husband did not)? Was their child at a babysitter or with either of the Laurean's on 12/14?

We know the answers to these questions, we can not release the info at this time.

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?postid=11338403&highlight=party+Christina#post11338403

On the thread entitled Emailed questions and response from Rick Sutherland dated 3/6/08, thread started by nuttintodo.

[Mimi428]

Same link as above, Capt. Sutherland, by comparison, gives a more definitive answer to question #12 - copied & pasted here. . .

12) What time did Daniel Durham arrive home on 12/14/07?

I believe it was around 5:30pm

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by Mimi428
This was the #1 question that nuttintodo sent to Rick Sutherland - & his answer.

1) Do you know when the Christmas party began and ended on 12/14/07 (the one where Christina Laurean attended but her husband did not)? Was their child at a babysitter or with either of the Laurean's on 12/14?

We know the answers to these questions, we can not release the info at this time.

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?postid=11338403&highlight=party+Christina#post11338403

On the thread entitled Emailed questions and response from Rick Sutherland dated 3/6/08, thread started by nuttintodo. [/*]

Interesting, this question asks what time the party ended but not what time Christina got home. Which GB recalls Greta asked RS and was answered. :shrug: (I do think, "what time did Christina get home from the party?" is a better question than what time the party ended.)

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


Interesting, this question asks what time the party ended but not what time Christina got home. Which GB recalls Greta asked RS and was answered. :shrug: (I do think, "what time did Christina get home from the party?" is a better question than what time the party ended.) [/*]

I agree. It doesn't matter what time the party ended it only matters what time Christina left. Actually that is part of what establishes Christina's alibi. jmo

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by sherryhefner


*snipped*

Xtina had to know.....I just can't find any way around it, even though I've tried. [/*]

Well frankly it is understandably puzzling to most people. However, I still firmly believe LE knows more details than we do and are satisfied with what they know about the timeline.

There are pieces of the puzzling missing, that's quite obvious. But I just believe those are pieces WE don't have but others do.

I really believe we'll have answers some day and we all might be shocked.

IMO.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by sherryhefner
To me, the biggest issue is the time line we have.

If CL alone killed Maria while Xtina was at the party, he would have had to done all the clean up, clean up himself, do the patch up work and start painting. In addition, he would have had to dig a hole to bury Maria....and we know how long digging a whole in this red clay done here takes. Then he would have to compose himself to pull off this entire scene so that Xtina would not be the least bit suspicious. Oh yeah, and he had to get rid of the car.
Whew! I'm tired thinking about it....

If we suppose that he waited to bury the body, that means he would have to dig a hole pretty soon (because the body was probably hid in the trunk? would he risk discovery by Xtina or LE or anyone else by doing this?)....then he would have to wait until night time when the neighbors were definitely asleep and get the body (blood and all) into the hole without being caught....and without Xtina waking up and finding him with the body in the backyard. Plus, more cleanup. Wow....he might could pull this off but I doubt it.

Xtina had to know.....I just can't find any way around it, even though I've tried. [/*]

Obviously there is a way around it since LE and the DA have made it clear she was not involved in the murder or cover up IIRC. They know much more then we do.

When RS said, in answer to a question sent to him by us, if they had probable cause to charge her they would. That was a big hint. imo

Posters stated they would not believe Christina was not involved until cleared by LE. Now she has been, by LE and the DA. Now LE and the DA aren't believed. I just don't get it.

Am I missing something here?

jmo

[cuppajoe]

Originally posted by Mimi428


I guess he didn't tell Christina as soon as she got home because it was simply a lie that Maria killed herself. We know she couldn't have delivered the blow to her own head that caved her skull in & killed her.

I can't imagine what the defense will be at trial, but my pure guess is that his attorneys will NOT even begin to suggest that Maria killed herself. I can see them attempting to shift the blame & say the DA can't prove that Cesar was the one who killed her, but I don't see the defense denying that the blow to the head was the cause of death.

JMO [/*]

Yes it's a lie but why the lie to Christina? If she did commit suicide that would mean he was innocent. I guess I think this is important because I think they will go with her suicide as their defense.

All they need is a forensic expert to tell the jury it could not be ruled out and that the fx's on the skull were there because of the high heat from the fire. The Phil Spector trial comes to mind, it only takes one juror to not understand forensics and reasonable doubt I think.

Your idea is good to.

[strick10]

Lynn Gweeny
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2005
Location:
Posts: 4026

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Janz


TY strick, I`ll be looking for your post, since INTREGITY seems to be the word today. [/*]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Janz

strick will certainly be able to provide better information regarding a military member assisting or aiding another military member from being apprehended, etc. but I just quickly found this information:

Can my friends and family get in trouble for helping me while I’m in a deserter status?

Yes!

According to the US Code, Title 18, Part I, Chapter 67, Paragraph 1381, there are significant penalties that may be levied on those who assist deserters, as noted below:

“Whoever entices or procures, or attempts or endeavors to entice or procure any person in the Armed forces of the United States, or who has been recruited for service therein, to desert therefrom, or aids any such person in deserting or in attempting to desert from such service, or:

Whoever harbors, conceals, protects, or assists any such person who may have deserted from such service, knowing him to have deserter therefrom, or refuses to give up and deliver such person on the demand of any officer authorized to receive him:

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.”

http://hqinet001.hqmc.usmc.mil/pp&o...eCollection.asp


__________________
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. ~ Dr. Seuss

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bringing over Lynn Gweenys post from yesterday. I've looked at 4 MC Orders, DOD Directives and SevNavInst and have not found the order that specifically states punishment for those knowing the whereabouts etc. of a deserter. I will keep looking but until I find something the hqmc link above is a great find by Lynn.

[caejde]

Originally posted by strick10
Caedje......other than the 5800.16A do you have any ideas where to look to find out the procedures for those knowing the status of deserters? (the 1620.3 or a DOD directive)? [/*]

Could she be charged with Article 78-Accessory after the Fact?
“Any person subject to this chapter who, knowing that an offense punishable by this chapter has been committed, receives, comforts, or assists the offender in order to hinder or prevent his apprehension, trial, or punishment shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”
http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/mcm/bl78.htm

[caejde]

Originally posted by caejde


Could she be charged with Article 78-Accessory after the Fact?
“Any person subject to this chapter who, knowing that an offense punishable by this chapter has been committed, receives, comforts, or assists the offender in order to hinder or prevent his apprehension, trial, or punishment shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”
http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/mcm/bl78.htm [/*]

Just wanted to add that if she had been told by someone in her command that she was to notify them if she had any contact and she did not do so, then she disobeyed an order.

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


Obviously there is a way around it since LE and the DA have made it clear she was not involved in the murder or cover up IIRC. They know much more then we do.

When RS said, in answer to a question sent to him by us, if they had probable cause to charge her they would. That was a big hint. imo

Posters stated they would not believe Christina was not involved until cleared by LE. Now she has been, by LE and the DA. Now LE and the DA aren't believed. I just don't get it.

Am I missing something here?

jmo [/*]

I'm sticking with my theory that LE and the DA need CSL to be santized in the public eye to bolster her credibility as a witness. What she has to say will be vital and critical to a conviction.

JMO and all that, of course.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by cuppajoe
If Maria Lauterbach really did commit suicide why didn't CL tell his wife as soon as she got home? Why would he hide that from her? This is one of the things that I don't understand and will cause CL many problems at trial I think. [/*]

We really don't know what he told his wife or when IMO. We have only her story and some letters that seem to benefit keeping her afloat at the present time....

But MY MONEY says ED BROWN is not giving her a GREEN LIGHT, but rather is operating with CAUTION....JMO THO.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

BROWN: That is what we have been told by her. I know there`s been a lot of speculations. However, we have to deal with the facts that we know and can prove. And at this time, as strange as it may sound to the average citizen, it`s possible that she did not know this had taken place. I said possible. Stranger things have happened, but...

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0804/11/ng.01.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

JMO

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by Marcia3


I'm sticking with my theory that LE and the DA need CSL to be santized in the public eye to bolster her credibility as a witness. What she has to say will be vital and critical to a conviction.

JMO and all that, of course. [/*]

Marcia, we still don't know if she was asked any questions when the federal authorities showed up at her sister's house either.

I would like to know if that could present a problem if she was not honest about being in touch with her husband who was on the FBI's MOST WANTED LIST before they took the computer and diary and whatever else they took.

Nevertheless, Dewey doesn't sound too confident of her innocence here, just placating IMO.

Time will tell....

http://www.wral.com/news/local/video/2724205/

(35 seconds into the video)

This was after the press conference IMO.

[strick10]

Originally posted by caejde


Could she be charged with Article 78-Accessory after the Fact?
“Any person subject to this chapter who, knowing that an offense punishable by this chapter has been committed, receives, comforts, or assists the offender in order to hinder or prevent his apprehension, trial, or punishment shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”
http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/mcm/bl78.htm [/*]

Thanks caejde. So in reality CSL could be in a bit of trouble with the MC for not telling them she was in contact with CAL, a deserter. Speaking of contact.....have you heard that it was a J'ville News comments individual that discovered that CSL and CAL were making contact via myspace and had been turning over the page links to the LE? From what I understand CAL was changing his myspace page frequently under different names etc.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by caejde


Just wanted to add that if she had been told by someone in her command that she was to notify them if she had any contact and she did not do so, then she disobeyed an order. [/*]

Hmmmm.....thanks for that tidbit caejde. I wondered if OCSD asked her to notify them before too.

It only stands to reason and she would be the only person I know who is dressed up in integrity after NOT NOTIFYING them IMO. ;)

Is her attorney a defense attorney? :read:

[caejde]

Originally posted by strick10


Thanks caejde. So in reality CSL could be in a bit of trouble with the MC for not telling them she was in contact with CAL, a deserter. Speaking of contact.....have you heard that it was a J'ville News comments individual that discovered that CSL and CAL were making contact via myspace and had been turning over the page links to the LE? From what I understand CAL was changing his myspace page frequently under different names etc. [/*]

Sure. I was going through the UCMJ and looking at the articles to see if she could be charged with anything under that. Looks like there could be a couple different options...to me anyway. I had read that it was a friend or someone who had thought Christina was a victim but then found out they were communicating and turned stuff over to LE...I'll say JMO though.

[caejde]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


Hmmmm.....thanks for that tidbit caejde. I wondered if OCSD asked her to notify them before too.

It only stands to reason and she would be the only person I know who is dressed up in integrity after NOT NOTIFYING them IMO. ;)

Is her attorney a defense attorney? :read: [/*]

I am not sure if her command told her to do so or not. Just was throwing that out there that if they did give her an order to let them and she did not that is a chargeable offense.

Her attorney is a criminal defense attorney. And from what I have read, he used to also work with at the our countie's DA office.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


<snipped>

Is her attorney a defense attorney? :read: [/*]

Mr. Welch was a former prosecutor in both Onslow and Duplin County before he went into private practice.

http://www.thewelchlawoffice.com/AttorneyProfile.html

[alter ego]

Originally posted by Marcia3


I'm sticking with my theory that LE and the DA need CSL to be santized in the public eye to bolster her credibility as a witness. What she has to say will be vital and critical to a conviction.

JMO and all that, of course. [/*]Since it could be well over a year before the trial, I don't see why LE or the DA would be concerned about her public image.

If her testimony is critical for a conviction, then the DA is in big trouble. How much will she say anyway? She is conflicted and still loves him so she can easily invoke spousal privilege. :shrug:

[crymeariver2006]

So after they "seized" Amber's computer and found all the correspondence, did Christina attempt any more contact with Cesar and if so, how?

Please tell me she didn't use a MC computer.

(That's rhetorical so don't post that she didn't use a MC computer unless it's a known fact. :D )

[cuppajoe]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


We really don't know what he told his wife or when IMO. We have only her story and some letters that seem to benefit keeping her afloat at the present time....

But MY MONEY says ED BROWN is not giving her a GREEN LIGHT, but rather is operating with CAUTION....JMO THO.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

BROWN: That is what we have been told by her. I know there`s been a lot of speculations. However, we have to deal with the facts that we know and can prove. And at this time, as strange as it may sound to the average citizen, it`s possible that she did not know this had taken place. I said possible. Stranger things have happened, but...

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0804/11/ng.01.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

JMO [/*]

In the statement you posted above by Sheriff Brown it sounds to me that he believes her. Talking about this:
" And at this time, as strange as it may sound to the average citizen, it`s possible that she did not know this had taken place. I said possible."

I don't know if Mrs. Laurean had anything to do with this horrible crime or not but everyday that passes that she isn't arrested seems to me to say she did not.

For her daughter's sake I hope she did not.

[strick10]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


Marcia, we still don't know if she was asked any questions when the federal authorities showed up at her sister's house either.

I would like to know if that could present a problem if she was not honest about being in touch with her husband who was on the FBI's MOST WANTED LIST before they took the computer and diary and whatever else they took.

Nevertheless, Dewey doesn't sound too confident of her innocence here, just placating IMO.

Time will tell....

http://www.wral.com/news/local/video/2724205/

(35 seconds into the video)

This was after the press conference IMO. [/*]

Thanks Candy!

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by alter ego
Since it could be well over a year before the trial, I don't see why LE or the DA would be concerned about her public image.

If her testimony is critical for a conviction, then the DA is in big trouble. How much will she say anyway? She is conflicted and still loves him so she can easily invoke spousal privilege. :shrug: [/*]

It's just a hunch on my part.

There may not be an overwhelming amount of evidence against CAL in the final analysis, and her testimony is key.

Or maybe LE knows more...and they know she has a piece to the puzzle that they need.

:shrug:

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


Marcia, we still don't know if she was asked any questions when the federal authorities showed up at her sister's house either.

I would like to know if that could present a problem if she was not honest about being in touch with her husband who was on the FBI's MOST WANTED LIST before they took the computer and diary and whatever else they took.

Nevertheless, Dewey doesn't sound too confident of her innocence here, just placating IMO.

Time will tell....

http://www.wral.com/news/local/video/2724205/

(35 seconds into the video)

This was after the press conference IMO. [/*]

Thanks, much appreciated! ITA, Dewey was far less complimentary of CSL in this video clip than he was during the presser.

[strick10]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006
So after they "seized" Amber's computer and found all the correspondence, did Christina attempt any more contact with Cesar and if so, how?

Please tell me she didn't use a MC computer.

(That's rhetorical so don't post that she didn't use a MC computer unless it's a known fact. :D ) [/*]

OMGosh.....IF she used a MC computer she's in alot of trouble mister.......

[crymeariver2006]

I still don't see how one can be a KEY witness to a crime that they didn't even know occurred, other than burying what they were told was a "suicide" victim.

:shrug:

I would think that if she's the KEY witness, she either knew all about it or she was involved and a deal is in the works for her testimony. Though I wouldn't be happy with any deal for her (or Cesar), it would prove once and for all that her involvement was more than just being told something on the way to the attorney's office the day before he fled.

IMO, they are still waiting to talk to Cesar. If he starts plugging holes in the timeline and not knowing what Christina has told LE......

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by strick10


OMGosh.....IF she used a MC computer she's in alot of trouble mister....... [/*]

The phrase "world of hurt" comes to mind.

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by sherryhefner



That's true....there are lots of questions with no clear answers right now. I feel for everyone involved....I can't help but see this case as a crime of passion. How about you? [/*]

Absolutely. But I see the perp as Cesar, not Christina.

[Mitzy2]

Originally posted by alter ego
Since it could be well over a year before the trial, I don't see why LE or the DA would be concerned about her public image.

If her testimony is critical for a conviction, then the DA is in big trouble. How much will she say anyway? She is conflicted and still loves him so she can easily invoke spousal privilege. :shrug: [/*] ITA. and I think that is the reason for X-tina's "kid glove" treatment by LE at this time. When push comes to shove, will she really testify against the father of her child to help the "State" put him in prision for the rest of his life ??? JMO

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006
I still don't see how one can be a KEY witness to a crime that they didn't even know occurred, other than burying what they were told was a "suicide" victim.

:shrug:

I would think that if she's the KEY witness, she either knew all about it or she was involved and a deal is in the works for her testimony. Though I wouldn't be happy with any deal for her (or Cesar), it would prove once and for all that her involvement was more than just being told something on the way to the attorney's office the day before he fled.

IMO, they are still waiting to talk to Cesar. If he starts plugging holes in the timeline and not knowing what Christina has told LE...... [/*]

My point exactly, Cryme. For everyone who claims that "LE knows more than we do," my response is the same. Yeah, they sure do, and they know that CSL will be a witness in CAL's trial because she has much to tell.

All IMO.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


Well frankly it is understandably puzzling to most people. However, I still firmly believe LE knows more details than we do and are satisfied with what they know about the timeline.

There are pieces of the puzzling missing, that's quite obvious. But I just believe those are pieces WE don't have but others do.

I really believe we'll have answers some day and we all might be shocked.

IMO. [/*]

I could not agree with you more. I believe the amount of information the various LE agencies have about this case would fill an ocean (figuratively speaking, of course).

And from that ocean, we have received an unfiltered gallon of information. Our filters are not suitable enough to ascertain which conclusions are erroneous & which are accurate. I believe we may have a teacup full of accurate conclusions, but I would bet money we have come to so many erroneous conclusions it would make your head spin.

Nature (& human nature) abhors a vacuum - & we have been dealing with a gigantic one here, IMO. Our dislike of mystery compels us to fill up that vaccuum - with speculations & theories & possibilities. We seize upon partial info & then try to extrapolate an answer which makes sense to us.

In the end, I think we are going to be in for a surprise at all the MISinformation that LE allowed to brew & percolate while Cesar was on the lam. They had a very good reason to let it be, to not correct it, since he did spend what is reported to be a good deal of time at the internet cafe'. I can't believe he spent hours every day thinking of different messages to Christina or his family - I think it is highly possible he followed this story obsessively. Trying to see if he could figure out whether or not LE 'knew' things that he knew, if they had uncovered or discovered things he went to great lengths to conceal or misrepresent.


JMO

[alter ego]

Originally posted by Marcia3


It's just a hunch on my part.

There may not be an overwhelming amount of evidence against CAL in the final analysis, and her testimony is key.

Or maybe LE knows more...and they know she has a piece to the puzzle that they need.

:shrug: [/*]They won't need her testimony to place a dead Maria in the backyard fire pit.

They won't need her testimony to place Maria's blood at the house.

They won't need her testimony to place Maria's ATM card in Cesar's possession.

They won't need her testimony to put Cesar on the lam.

And since their public claim is that Christina is not involved in the murder or coverup, they won't need her testimony to put the murder weapon in Cesar's hand.

:shrug:

[hinman]

Originally posted by Mimi428


I could not agree with you more. I believe the amount of information the various LE agencies have about this case would fill an ocean (figuratively speaking, of course).

And from that ocean, we have received an unfiltered gallon of information. Our filters are not suitable enough to ascertain which conclusions are erroneous & which are accurate. I believe we may have a teacup full of accurate conclusions, but I would bet money we have come to so many erroneous conclusions it would make your head spin.

Nature (& human nature) abhors a vacuum - & we have been dealing with a gigantic one here, IMO. Our dislike of mystery compels us to fill up that vaccuum - with speculations & theories & possibilities. We seize upon partial info & then try to extrapolate an answer which makes sense to us.

In the end, I think we are going to be in for a surprise at all the MISinformation that LE allowed to brew & percolate while Cesar was on the lam. They had a very good reason to let it be, to not correct it, since he did spend what is reported to be a good deal of time at the internet cafe'. I can't believe he spent hours every day thinking of different messages to Christina or his family - I think it is highly possible he followed this story obsessively. Trying to see if he could figure out whether or not LE 'knew' things that he knew, if they had uncovered or discovered things he went to great lengths to conceal or misrepresent.


JMO [/*]I agree I have always wondered if LE even contributed to the misinformation. That has been known to happen. Put a little piece of misinfo out there to see what happens

[hinman]

Originally posted by alter ego
They won't need her testimony to place a dead Maria in the backyard fire pit.

They won't need her testimony to place Maria's blood at the house.

They won't need her testimony to place Maria's ATM card in Cesar's possession.

They won't need her testimony to put Cesar on the lamb.

And since their public claim is that Christina is not involved in the murder or coverup, they won't need her testimony to put the murder weapon in Cesar's hand.

:shrug: [/*]Very true the only testimony of hers that I see is what occurred on the day he ran and maybe if she noticed any behavior changes.

So if she is not a star witness then why no arrest. I still go with no evidence as Sheriff Brown, Hudson and so forth have been saying all along.

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by alter ego
They won't need her testimony to place a dead Maria in the backyard fire pit.

They won't need her testimony to place Maria's blood at the house.

They won't need her testimony to place Maria's ATM card in Cesar's possession.

They won't need her testimony to put Cesar on the lamb.

And since their public claim is that Christina is not involved in the murder or coverup, they won't need her testimony to put the murder weapon in Cesar's hand.

:shrug: [/*]

All of the above is true, but there is always the possibility that CAL's defense will bring in experts to testify that Maria did not die from the blunt force trauma. If that is the case, and any doubt creeps in surrounding the COD, then everything else falls into place for CAL's side of the story.

Will he have trouble explaining why he used her ATM card? Yeah. Will he go to prison for the rest of his life if he admits to using it? Nope.

They are still guarded in their claim that CSL was not involved in the coverup. IMO she was not involved in the murder but I think she knows much more than any of us do about what happened aftewards.

JMO.

[cuppajoe]

Originally posted by alter ego
They won't need her testimony to place a dead Maria in the backyard fire pit.

They won't need her testimony to place Maria's blood at the house.

They won't need her testimony to place Maria's ATM card in Cesar's possession.

They won't need her testimony to put Cesar on the lamb.

And since their public claim is that Christina is not involved in the murder or coverup, they won't need her testimony to put the murder weapon in Cesar's hand.

:shrug: [/*]

The points you make above are important ones. As far as I can see the Sheriff and Military investigators see Mr. Laurean as the defendant, not Mrs. Laurean.

There is no evidence against Mrs. Laurean that I have seen reported.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by hinman
I agree I have always wondered if LE even contributed to the misinformation. That has been known to happen. Put a little piece of misinfo out there to see what happens [/*]

Oh yeah. I can imagine that as a possibility, also. I think LE had reasons to believe he would keep up with the news & the information that was being released - & in that scenario, it could be very worthwhile to not only allow misinformation to go uncorrected - but to create a bit of misinformation as well.

JMO

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


Marcia, we still don't know if she was asked any questions when the federal authorities showed up at her sister's house either.

I would like to know if that could present a problem if she was not honest about being in touch with her husband who was on the FBI's MOST WANTED LIST before they took the computer and diary and whatever else they took.

Nevertheless, Dewey doesn't sound too confident of her innocence here, just placating IMO.

Time will tell....

http://www.wral.com/news/local/video/2724205/

(35 seconds into the video)

This was after the press conference IMO. [/*]

I think what they have is a case where the time of death is unknown. No time of death is even on the death certificate. So since they do not know they have no way to refute CSLs words that she wasn't in the home at the time. Its that simple imo. Since this crime occurred behind closed doors on Meadow Trail and there were no eye witness to the murder, except by the participant or participants or as to when it happened exactly...this is her ace in the hole.

As long as they cannot narrow the time of death down CSL is home free. I would think that after almost a month there is no forensic evidence tying either one of them to the actual murder. I do believe there is much forensic evidence showing that Maria died in the garage.

With Cesar's get out of jail free notes he left behind in CSLs possessions they will mostly try him on a circumstantial evidence. He has admitted that he buried her and that she came there. He did not say however, conveniently for CSL imo, who else may have been there or came in at that time.

I looked at SBs body language and he does think it is ludicrous that she is not involved in this imo. He said "possible" and stranger things have happened. I wonder what can be stranger than this case? He however did not say it was a probability just a possibility. Like there is a possibility that I may win a lottery but the probability is almost non existent.

I think that is why he has been so respectful to Laurean. He wants him to come back and really tell them the truth and who was involved. I think the gloves are off between Christina and Laurean and the line drawn in the sand when he made the comment to the media that he loved Maria.

For a defense attorney to polish a client is one thing but for a DA to do so is very unprofessional. Not once did we hear ADA Rick Distaso come out and sing Amber's praises before trial. IMO the tainting of the jury pool has begun. There was no reason to divulge all the lovey dovey stuff and woes about CSL except to try to change the majority steadfast opinions about her in his county and imo it backfired and is not working as he thought.

moo

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Marcia3


All of the above is true, but there is always the possibility that CAL's defense will bring in experts to testify that Maria did not die from the blunt force trauma. If that is the case, and any doubt creeps in surrounding the COD, then everything else falls into place for CAL's side of the story.

Will he have trouble explaining why he used her ATM card? Yeah. Will he go to prison for the rest of his life if he admits to using it? Nope.

They are still guarded in their claim that CSL was not involved in the coverup. IMO she was not involved in the murder but I think she knows much more than any of us do about what happened aftewards.

JMO. [/*]

Hey Marcia, I doubt that the defense can produce credible evidence that Maria did not die of BFT Her skull was crushed. The neck wound was superficial.

IMO, Cesar has no credible defense and will go down for this. I am unsure about Ctina, but venture to guess that she will escape prosecution. JMO

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by Marcia3


All of the above is true, but there is always the possibility that CAL's defense will bring in experts to testify that Maria did not die from the blunt force trauma. If that is the case, and any doubt creeps in surrounding the COD, then everything else falls into place for CAL's side of the story.

[/*]

<snipped> I'm trying to imagine what they WOULD infer was the COD, if they refute blunt force trauma. It sure can't be that cut on her neck, it may have been long & we know that it gapped, but it was not deep enough to have severed a major artery.

But let's say they work that theory - she cut her throat - in that scenario, they are going to have to claim a location in which that occurred - & to the best of my knowledge (at this time) NO bloodbath location was discovered. And that sort of death would create a huge, overwhelming bloodbath. Pouring, gushing blood.

JMO

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Mimi428


I could not agree with you more. I believe the amount of information the various LE agencies have about this case would fill an ocean (figuratively speaking, of course).

And from that ocean, we have received an unfiltered gallon of information. Our filters are not suitable enough to ascertain which conclusions are erroneous & which are accurate. I believe we may have a teacup full of accurate conclusions, but I would bet money we have come to so many erroneous conclusions it would make your head spin.

Nature (& human nature) abhors a vacuum - & we have been dealing with a gigantic one here, IMO. Our dislike of mystery compels us to fill up that vaccuum - with speculations & theories & possibilities. We seize upon partial info & then try to extrapolate an answer which makes sense to us.

In the end, I think we are going to be in for a surprise at all the MISinformation that LE allowed to brew & percolate while Cesar was on the lam. They had a very good reason to let it be, to not correct it, since he did spend what is reported to be a good deal of time at the internet cafe'. I can't believe he spent hours every day thinking of different messages to Christina or his family - I think it is highly possible he followed this story obsessively. Trying to see if he could figure out whether or not LE 'knew' things that he knew, if they had uncovered or discovered things he went to great lengths to conceal or misrepresent.


JMO [/*]

I don't think that I have ever been to an internet cafe (except maybe coffee houses). Does it cost money to use the computers there? I read in one news report that Cesar sometimes worked at the internet cafe.

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by bkwits


Hey Marcia, I doubt that the defense can produce credible evidence that Maria did not die of BFT Her skull was crushed. The neck wound was superficial.

IMO, Cesar has no credible defense and will go down for this. I am unsure about Ctina, but venture to guess that she will escape prosecution. JMO [/*]

And I would have bet a paycheck that Phil Spector would be in prison right now...and risked a bonus on a bet that Mary Winkler would be found guilty of 2nd degree murder.

I'm not saying that it is probable that a jury would buy such a defense, but in a case that has been one strange situation after the other, nothing would surprise me.

JMO

[alter ego]

Originally posted by hinman
Very true the only testimony of hers that I see is what occurred on the day he ran and maybe if she noticed any behavior changes.

So if she is not a star witness then why no arrest. I still go with no evidence as Sheriff Brown, Hudson and so forth have been saying all along. [/*]
I don't know that she has to be either a star witness or a participant in the crime.

Maybe she is just another victim of Cesar's....altho I find it hard to believe her hands are clean in all this mess.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Marcia3


And I would have bet a paycheck that Phil Spector would be in prison right now...and risked a bonus on a bet that Mary Winkler would be found guilty of 2nd degree murder.

I'm not saying that it is probable that a jury would buy such a defense, but in a case that has been one strange situation after the other, nothing would surprise me.

JMO [/*]

I agree and blunt force trauma to the head can happen by an accident or intentional.

imoo:seeya:

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I think what they have is a case where the time of death is unknown. No time of death is even on the death certificate. So since they do not know they have no way to refute CSLs words that she wasn't in the home at the time. Its that simple imo. Since this crime occurred behind closed doors on Meadow Trail and there were no eye witness to the murder, except by the participant or participants or as to when it happened exactly...this is her ace in the hole.

As long as they cannot narrow the time of death down CSL is home free. I would think that after almost a month there is no forensic evidence tying either one of them to the actual murder. I do believe there is much forensic evidence showing that Maria died in the garage.

With Cesar's get out of jail free notes he left behind in CSLs possessions they will mostly try him on a circumstantial evidence. He has admitted that he buried her and that she came there. He did not say however, conveniently for CSL imo, who else may have been there or came in at that time.

I looked at SBs body language and he does think it is ludicrous that she is not involved in this imo. He said "possible" and stranger things have happened. I wonder what can be stranger than this case? He however did not say it was a probability just a possibility. Like there is a possibility that I may win a lottery but the probability is almost non existent.

I think that is why he has been so respectful to Laurean. He wants him to come back and really tell them the truth and who was involved. I think the gloves are off between Christina and Laurean and the line drawn in the sand when he made the comment to the media that he loved Maria.

For a defense attorney to polish a client is one thing but for a DA to do so is very unprofessional. Not once did we hear ADA Rick Distaso come out and sing Amber's praises before trial. IMO the tainting of the jury pool has begun. There was no reason to divulge all the lovey dovey stuff and woes about CSL except to try to change the majority steadfast opinions about her in his county and imo it backfired and is not working as he thought.

moo [/*]

Wow, some great thoughts! Good points, all of them.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by alter ego

I don't know that she has to be either a star witness or a participant in the crime.

Maybe she is just another victim of Cesar's....altho I find it hard to believe her hands are clean in all this mess. [/*]

If it turns out that she participated ONLY after Maria was murdered, but had no hand in planning or carrying out murder - AND is not indicted - I will need a couple extra doses of blood pressure meds, but I'll get over it. I've seen too many cases in which someone does something that morally offends me to the core, but their testimony is crucial to placing the criminal who committed a much more heinous crime behind bars.

It was speculated upthread about whether Christina was given an order by the military to report any contact from Cesar - & also speculated on whether federal investigators questioned her. If either of those instances occurred & she did not follow instructions - lying by ommission or commission - then heaven help her, she could very likely be in a world of ch*t from that alone. She sure wouldn't be the first person who found out that the feds will slam you hard for lying/obstructing - far beyond what civilian LE will.

JMO

[alter ego]

Originally posted by Marcia3


All of the above is true, but there is always the possibility that CAL's defense will bring in experts to testify that Maria did not die from the blunt force trauma. If that is the case, and any doubt creeps in surrounding the COD, then everything else falls into place for CAL's side of the story.

Will he have trouble explaining why he used her ATM card? Yeah. Will he go to prison for the rest of his life if he admits to using it? Nope.

They are still guarded in their claim that CSL was not involved in the coverup. IMO she was not involved in the murder but I think she knows much more than any of us do about what happened aftewards.

JMO. [/*]
The defense can present what they see fit to present. Doesn't mean it will be deemed a reasonable explanation by the jury.

[AlohaRainbow]

Originally posted by Mimi428


<snipped> I'm trying to imagine what they WOULD infer was the COD, if they refute blunt force trauma. It sure can't be that cut on her neck, it may have been long & we know that it gapped, but it was not deep enough to have severed a major artery.

But let's say they work that theory - she cut her throat - in that scenario, they are going to have to claim a location in which that occurred - & to the best of my knowledge (at this time) NO bloodbath location was discovered. And that sort of death would create a huge, overwhelming bloodbath. Pouring, gushing blood.

JMO [/*]
just playing devil's advocate, but what if the defense theory (story) will be that maria started/attempted to slit her own throat, making the 'superficial' wound, but that she fainted while doing so (either frm the pain or from ???), striking her head - thus the blunt force trauma that actually killed her.

[AlohaRainbow]

Originally posted by Kathy*Rae
Snipped for space:

:seeya:

Thanks for that quote Candykisses!

Like you, I am inclined to agree Mr Ed is being cautious.

He is not actually saying X'Tina is NOT a suspect.

He seems to be saying "At this time"... [/*]
which tells me there may be surprises and charges for the Mrs. ahead. [/*]
maybe that was said more for cesar's ears than the public's... combine that with telling the world (i.e. cesar) that christina had contemplated suicide at one point but thoughts of her daughter dissuaded her - le might hope to "shame" cesar into confessing.. see what this has done to your family? just come clean and make it easier on your wife/child

[Howiefan]

Originally posted by Marcia3


And I would have bet a paycheck that Phil Spector would be in prison right now...and risked a bonus on a bet that Mary Winkler would be found guilty of 2nd degree murder.

I'm not saying that it is probable that a jury would buy such a defense, but in a case that has been one strange situation after the other, nothing would surprise me.

JMO [/*]
yes it cost money like at a library it cost money to use a computer although probably cheaper than internet cafes especially in Mexico I think i have read where they are pricey

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by Kathy*Rae
Snipped for space:



:seeya:


Thanks for that quote Candykisses!

Like you, I am inclined to agree Mr Ed is being cautious.

He is not actually saying X'Tina is NOT a suspect.

He seems to be saying "At this time"... [/*]
which tells me there may be surprises and charges for the Mrs. ahead. [/*]

DA Hudson cleared her as blunt as blunt can be and since he is trying the case I believe him.

All he is waiting on now is the report from the FBI on the emails to clear her in that regard also.

I wonder why anyone would think Christina did not talk to federal investigators when they served the search warrant? When you tell the truth I don't see why she would refuse.

So far all she did was communicate with him which is NOT against the law. I believe she will not be charged with aiding and abetting him.



jmo

[strick10]

Originally posted by AlohaRainbow

just playing devil's advocate, but what if the defense theory (story) will be that maria started/attempted to slit her own throat, making the 'superficial' wound, but that she fainted while doing so (either frm the pain or from ???), striking her head - thus the blunt force trauma that actually killed her. [/*]

This theory has crossed my mind. Awfully gutsy for someone to slit their own throat though, maybe Maria had alot of that and only meant to scare whomever. I know the cut wasn't deep enough to kill her but it may have shocked her. One of the reasons why the ME reports stating the "may haves" kinda bothers me. Wish there was away to figure out which injury came first for sure.

ETA: In either case where is the knife?

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by strick10


This theory has crossed my mind. Awfully gutsy for someone to slit their own throat though, maybe Maria had alot of that and only meant to scare whomever. I know the cut wasn't deep enough to kill her but it may have shocked her. One of the reasons why the ME reports stating the "may haves" kinda bothers me. Wish there was away to figure out which injury came first for sure.

ETA: In either case where is the knife? [/*]

Strick, IIRC the ME said the cause of death was blunt force trauma to her head. She was struck more then once IIRC. The left side of the head which left a hole and the base of her skull. I just don't remember any maybes on that.

JMO

[strick10]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


DA Hudson cleared her as blunt as blunt can be and since he is trying the case I believe him.

All he is waiting on now is the report from the FBI on the emails to clear her in that regard also.

I wonder why anyone would think Christina did not talk to federal investigators when they served the search warrant? When you tell the truth I don't see why she would refuse.

So far all she did was communicate with him which is NOT against the law. I believe she will not be charged with aiding and abetting him.

When you say "clear her in that regard also" what do you mean? Clear her that it wasn't her, clear her that the communications were just everyday conversations?



jmo [/*]

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


Strick, IIRC the ME said the cause of death was blunt force trauma to her head. She was struck more then once IIRC. The left side of the head which left a hole and the base of her skull. I just don't remember any maybes on that.

JMO [/*]

Garrett signed Lauterbach’s death certificate Tuesday morning and listed the cause of death as homicide.

“(Lauterbach) did not fall down and hit her head or anything of the sort. She was struck in the head with a blunt object — she died at the hands of another,” he told The Daily News.

Garrett said it would require longer to receive the details of the exam, but that “the cause of her death will not change.”

http://www.enctoday.com/articles/laurean_54422_jdn__article.html/lauterbach_bus.html

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by strick10
[/*]

That she did not aid and abet him in anyway in the emals.

jmo

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny


Garrett signed Lauterbach’s death certificate Tuesday morning and listed the cause of death as homicide.

“(Lauterbach) did not fall down and hit her head or anything of the sort. She was struck in the head with a blunt object — she died at the hands of another,” he told The Daily News.

Garrett said it would require longer to receive the details of the exam, but that “the cause of her death will not change.”

http://www.enctoday.com/articles/laurean_54422_jdn__article.html/lauterbach_bus.html [/*]

Thanks Lynn.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by AlohaRainbow

just playing devil's advocate, but what if the defense theory (story) will be that maria started/attempted to slit her own throat, making the 'superficial' wound, but that she fainted while doing so (either frm the pain or from ???), striking her head - thus the blunt force trauma that actually killed her. [/*]

I think they would have a hard time getting an expert to testify that she could obtain the velocity required to fx her skull all the way around by falling. Testimony about the hinge fx & how much velocity is required to get one like she had is going to be mighty hard to refute, I think. Not saying a defense attorney wouldn't suggest it - but I think the DA could really get a lot of testimony in that would horrify the jurors contemplating how much force it took to create the hinge fx. I'm also anticipating that the Dover autopsy will put into perspective how unbelievably improbable it would be to suggest that a fall did all that damage.

Of course, all the above is dependent on a jury made up of folks who come to conclusions based on scientific factors more than emotional factors.

JMO

[strick10]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


Strick, IIRC the ME said the cause of death was blunt force trauma to her head. She was struck more then once IIRC. The left side of the head which left a hole and the base of her skull. I just don't remember any maybes on that.

JMO [/*]

http://www.jdnews.com/attachments/jxqt6p-lauterbachautopsy1.pdf

Page 3 of 9 under the Summary and Intepretation states "most likely" and "may have".

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


Marcia, we still don't know if she was asked any questions when the federal authorities showed up at her sister's house either.

I would like to know if that could present a problem if she was not honest about being in touch with her husband who was on the FBI's MOST WANTED LIST before they took the computer and diary and whatever else they took.

Nevertheless, Dewey doesn't sound too confident of her innocence here, just placating IMO.

Time will tell....

http://www.wral.com/news/local/video/2724205/

(35 seconds into the video)

This was after the press conference IMO. [/*]

Hmmmmmmmm Hudson sure does wax and wane. Yes AFTER the PC and SB saying "AT THIS TIME."

imoo

[strick10]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


That she did not aid and abet him in anyway in the emals.

Nothing about the murder or cover up. She is cleared for that according to the DA.

jmo [/*]
Gottcha. Thanks.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Mimi428


I think they would have a hard time getting an expert to testify that she could obtain the velocity required to fx her skull all the way around by falling. Testimony about the hinge fx & how much velocity is required to get one like she had is going to be mighty hard to refute, I think. Not saying a defense attorney wouldn't suggest it - but I think the DA could really get a lot of testimony in that would horrify the jurors contemplating how much force it took to create the hinge fx. I'm also anticipating that the Dover autopsy will put into perspective how unbelievably improbable it would be to suggest that a fall did all that damage.

Of course, all the above is dependent on a jury made up of folks who come to conclusions based on scientific factors more than emotional factors.

JMO [/*]

If it is reasonable that is what jurors look for and if they can understand the testimony of the experts and what they are telling them.

If they think it was logical that she may have struck a blunt object or when she free fell from passing out from cutting her neck and slammed her head onto a very hard unyielding surface such as a concrete floor then it may not be far fetched to the jury. It may cause doubt whether the blunt head trauma was intentional or accidental.

imoo

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


Strick, IIRC the ME said the cause of death was blunt force trauma to her head. She was struck more then once IIRC. The left side of the head which left a hole and the base of her skull. I just don't remember any maybes on that.

JMO [/*]

Yes, Military lab is reconstructing her skull, and they think it may show the marks of the weapon that was used (we think LE has a crow bar as evidence).

I would find it odd that her skull could be crushed in such a manner by just falling to the floor. IMO

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny


Garrett signed Lauterbach’s death certificate Tuesday morning and listed the cause of death as homicide.

“(Lauterbach) did not fall down and hit her head or anything of the sort. She was struck in the head with a blunt object — she died at the hands of another,” he told The Daily News.

Garrett said it would require longer to receive the details of the exam, but that “the cause of her death will not change.”

http://www.enctoday.com/articles/laurean_54422_jdn__article.html/lauterbach_bus.html [/*]

Thanks for that link. I noticed this part at the bottom, too -

Brown said the note “does not hold water” because there were too many inconsistencies with the physical evidence found in the garage.

“There is signs of a violent struggle — a confrontation,” he said.

I think there are a lot of possible & probable scenarios which could be argued by the defense, but I'm not confident that a jury would buy into the idea that a woman as pregnant as Maria was at the time of her death would be cutting her own throat - deeply or superficially. Baby clothes in a bag in the pit pretty much negates a picture of a young woman who had so little regard for the child she was carrying that she would inflict that much harm on herself.

JMO

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


Strick, IIRC the ME said the cause of death was blunt force trauma to her head. She was struck more then once IIRC. The left side of the head which left a hole and the base of her skull. I just don't remember any maybes on that.

JMO [/*]

He didn't list in the autopsy she died from multiple blows that I remember.


imoo

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by strick10


http://www.jdnews.com/attachments/jxqt6p-lauterbachautopsy1.pdf

Page 3 of 9 under the Summary and Intepretation states "most likely" and "may have". [/*]

Check the link up thread Lynn supplied and also look at page one of the autopsy report where it says blunt force trauma is the cause of death.

I think it is clear she died from blunt force trauma at the hands of another and the defense will have a problem with this.

The only reason I want to know when the knife wound was done, before or after death, is because if done after death it proves she in no way tried to kill herself. I believe it was done after death to bolster his note. He still killed her though. The knife wound didn't kill her.

jmo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by bkwits


Yes, Military lab is reconstructing her skull, and they think it may show the marks of the weapon that was used (we think LE has a crow bar as evidence).

I would find it odd that her skull could be crushed in such a manner by just falling to the floor. IMO [/*]

If you read some of the medical links people have been killed by blunt force trauma when their head slammed into an unyielding object or a hard surface such as a concrete floor.

Those were accidents.

imoo

[Howiefan]

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny

respectfully snipped
Garrett signed Lauterbach’s death certificate Tuesday morning and listed the cause of death as homicide.

http://www.enctoday.com/articles/laurean_54422_jdn__article.html/lauterbach_bus.html [/*]

Thanks as always Lynn for you links and input in this case:) You do a super job:)

[bkwits]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


If you read some of the medical links people have been killed by blunt force trauma when their head slammed into an unyielding object or a hard surface such as a concrete floor.

Those were accidents.

imoo [/*]

IMHO, it will never fly in this case.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by bkwits


Yes, Military lab is reconstructing her skull, and they think it may show the marks of the weapon that was used (we think LE has a crow bar as evidence).

I would find it odd that her skull could be crushed in such a manner by just falling to the floor. IMO [/*]

I would find it odd too. If it did she would have had to bounce, roll over in the air, and hit the back of her head I would think. Seems very unlikely to me. jmo

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


If you read some of the medical links people have been killed by blunt force trauma when their head slammed into an unyielding object or a hard surface such as a concrete floor.

Those were accidents.

imoo [/*]

I know you and I don't buy the idea that Maria died accidentally, but you're raising some good potential defense arguments. What scares the you-know-what out of me is that the defense only needs a few jurors to have a lingering doubt. In my heart, I believe CAL killed Maria and Gabriel and I want to see him punished for it.

JMO.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


He didn't list in the autopsy she died from multiple blows that I remember.


imoo [/*]

IIRC, someone in LE said (I think it was Sheriff Ed) that the "first blow" killed her and the killer kept hitting her after she was dead. IMO

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


If it is reasonable that is what jurors look for and if they can understand the testimony of the experts and what they are telling them.

If they think it was logical that she may have struck a blunt object or when she free fell from passing out from cutting her neck and slammed her head onto a very hard unyielding surface such as a concrete floor then it may not be far fetched to the jury. It may cause doubt whether the blunt head trauma was intentional or accidental.

imoo [/*]

So first the defense has to convince a jury that this single pregnant woman, who did NOT abort a fetus when she legally could have - who apparently had in her possession a bag containing at least one item of baby clothing - became thoroughly callous regarding the health of the fetus AND was intent upon at least making a display of cutting her own throat. Then fell & hit her head, causing at least 2 defects in her skull from impact AND creating a hinge fracture. I'm wondering what object they could claim was present that she fell into - it would have to be a real long way down to even begin to create enough velocity to create that hinge fx.

JMO

[AmyO]

Question for anyone. Was it ever revealed what time Christina returned from the Christmas party on 12/14? Do we even know that she did? Didn't the neighbor's say in tv interviews that Christina was living in the house with Cesar between 12/14 and 1/11 when he left town? If that is correct, I still don't see how in the world she could not have known that Maria was killed in her home, buried and burned in her backyard. Sections of the fence were missing FGS!! Is she THAT dumb?

[strick10]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


-respectfully snipped-
The only reason I want to know when the knife wound was done, before or after death, is because if done after death it proves she in no way tried to kill herself. I believe it was done after death to bolster his note. He still killed her though. The knife wound didn't kill her.

jmo [/*]

I'd like to know for sure when the knife wound occurred as well. Could be that the killer attempt to kill her initially by slitting her throat and failed in which the killer then struck her on the side of her head. Either way I realize the cut to the throat didn't kill her.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by Mimi428


So first the defense has to convince a jury that this single pregnant woman, who did NOT abort a fetus when she legally could have - who apparently had in her possession a bag containing at least one item of baby clothing - became thoroughly callous regarding the health of the fetus AND was intent upon at least making a display of cutting her own throat. Then fell & hit her head, causing at least 2 defects in her skull from impact AND creating a hinge fracture. I'm wondering what object they could claim was present that she fell into - it would have to be a real long way down to even begin to create enough velocity to create that hinge fx.

JMO [/*]

That, and I believe the lab is looking for any trace of Maria's DNA on the murder weapon. There could be traces of blood or brain left in the crevices when it was cleaned. Kind of hard to fall on a crowbar and cause such inuury.

jmo

[AmyO]

Originally posted by strick10


I'd like to know for sure when the knife wound occurred as well. Could be that the killer attempt to kill her initially by slitting her throat and failed in which the killer then struck her on the side of her head. Either way I realize the cut to the throat didn't kill her. [/*]
I thought I heard Sheriff Brown say it was done post-mortem. I don't have a link but I swear I heard that more than once. Does anyone else remember that?

[strick10]

Originally posted by bkwits


IIRC, someone in LE said (I think it was Sheriff Ed) that the "first blow" killed her and the killer kept hitting her after she was dead. IMO [/*]

Got to learn something new today so I shall ask.....how would the LE or the ME know that the first blow killed her? Wouldn't that almost be impossible to determine due to the condition of her body?

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by strick10


I'd like to know for sure when the knife wound occurred as well. Could be that the killer attempt to kill her initially by slitting her throat and failed in which the killer then struck her on the side of her head. Either way I realize the cut to the throat didn't kill her. [/*]

Oh wow, you have a point there I didn't think of.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


He didn't list in the autopsy she died from multiple blows that I remember.


imoo [/*]

One huge blow may have been all that was required to kill her, but that doesn't mean she didn't receive more than one. My recollection is that the autopsy mentions two - one significantly larger than the other - plus the hinge fracture.

JMO

[strick10]

Originally posted by AmyO

I thought I heard Sheriff Brown say it was done post-mortem. I don't have a link but I swear I heard that more than once. Does anyone else remember that? [/*]

Yes he did. But I don't believe it has been positively, with no questions, been determined if that cut to the neck happened before or after. It has been determined that the cut to the throat was not the cause of her death.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by strick10


Got to learn something new today so I shall ask.....how would the LE or the ME know that the first blow killed her? Wouldn't that almost be impossible to determine due to the condition of her body? [/*]

I believe they would know which blow killed her by the size of the wound and parts of the skull found in the brain or brain area. jmo

Which blow was struck first I don't know how they would know. imo

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by Mimi428


So first the defense has to convince a jury that this single pregnant woman, who did NOT abort a fetus when she legally could have - who apparently had in her possession a bag containing at least one item of baby clothing - became thoroughly callous regarding the health of the fetus AND was intent upon at least making a display of cutting her own throat. Then fell & hit her head, causing at least 2 defects in her skull from impact AND creating a hinge fracture. I'm wondering what object they could claim was present that she fell into - it would have to be a real long way down to even begin to create enough velocity to create that hinge fx.

JMO [/*]

But let's not forget that there will also be defense tactics which will attempt to show Maria in less than flattering light in terms of her emotional stability. It wouldn't be the first time a defense went that direction...and experts frequently disagree with one another. JMO, and in my heart I wish that CAL would come back and plead guilty to get it over with, but why should he do that? The DP is already out of the question, so why not mount a vigorous defense, even if the arguments seem ridiculous and nonsensical?

JMO.

[strick10]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


Oh wow, you have a point there I didn't think of. [/*]

Here's what I think: I think the struggle began in the dining area (which is why I keep mentioning the dining set). CAL or whomever attempted to kill Maria by cutting her throat but Maria was able to get away and ran into the garage (closest door out of the actual home) where the killer picked up the crowbar and struck her.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


If you read some of the medical links people have been killed by blunt force trauma when their head slammed into an unyielding object or a hard surface such as a concrete floor.

Those were accidents.

imoo [/*]

But the question is - did any of those accidents inflict the same sort of injuries to THEIR skulls as those found on Maria's skull? It isn't enough that they had a fall & skull fx - it has to be similar to the injuries to the skull in this case.

I don't think anyone refutes that people fall, hit their heads on the way down, suffer serious injuries & die - I think the key question is could the injuries in THIS case have been inflicted by a fall. I don't think the impact areas & that hinge fx could have ALL been created by a fall. YMMV

[sunstar]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


We really don't know what he told his wife or when IMO. We have only her story and some letters that seem to benefit keeping her afloat at the present time....

But MY MONEY says ED BROWN is not giving her a GREEN LIGHT, but rather is operating with CAUTION....JMO THO.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

BROWN: That is what we have been told by her. I know there`s been a lot of speculations. However, we have to deal with the facts that we know and can prove. And at this time, as strange as it may sound to the average citizen, it`s possible that she did not know this had taken place. I said possible. Stranger things have happened, but...

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0804/11/ng.01.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

JMO [/*]
Good afternoon :seeya: I'm just dropping by while at work to check and see if anything's new today and wanted to say thanks for posting that quote from Sheriff Brown. I agree it seems he is being cautious with his wording in case something does turn up showing Mrs. CL had some involvement. His choice of word ("possible") and leaving the door open so to speak, is better, imo, than the DA's.

[AlohaRainbow]

Originally posted by Mimi428


I think they would have a hard time getting an expert to testify that she could obtain the velocity required to fx her skull all the way around by falling. Testimony about the hinge fx & how much velocity is required to get one like she had is going to be mighty hard to refute, I think. Not saying a defense attorney wouldn't suggest it - but I think the DA could really get a lot of testimony in that would horrify the jurors contemplating how much force it took to create the hinge fx. I'm also anticipating that the Dover autopsy will put into perspective how unbelievably improbable it would be to suggest that a fall did all that damage.

Of course, all the above is dependent on a jury made up of folks who come to conclusions based on scientific factors more than emotional factors.

JMO [/*]
one would think that getting an expert to testify about the improbable would be difficult. however, there's dr baden's testimony in the phil spector trial.... :eek:

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by strick10


I'd like to know for sure when the knife wound occurred as well. Could be that the killer attempt to kill her initially by slitting her throat and failed in which the killer then struck her on the side of her head. Either way I realize the cut to the throat didn't kill her. [/*]

I'll start out by saying that I do believe Cesar killed her & that any involvement Christina may have had did not include being in the same place at the same time as when Maria was killed.

MOO - I don't think Cesar would have even considered trying to kill her by cutting her throat. That takes far too much 'hands on' contact. Swinging a crowbar like you would a bat would be a much easier way to immediately immobilize Maria. Cutting someone's throat would involve wrestling, tussling, struggling against the strength of the victim, etc.

I'm sure the possibility exists that Cesar would want to go the more difficult route of killing her by throat cutting, but it just doesn't rise to the level of probability for me, personally. Again, YMMV.

JMO

[strick10]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


I believe they would know which blow killed her by the size of the wound and parts of the skull found in the brain or brain area. jmo

Which blow was struck first I don't know how they would know. imo [/*]

Thanks Squawk. When I first began posting here I was hoping that Maria was caught off guard and didn't see her death coming. I was hoping that the 1st blow killed her to save her from the pain and the fear of knowing. Don't mean to sound callous but at that time I hoped she didn't know what was happening.

After months of posting and reading, and thanks to some great posters that have some great insight and whatnot, I now believe that Maria saw it coming and she put up some kind of a struggle. I believe she felt pain and she felt the fear of what was to come.

[sunstar]

Originally posted by strick10


I'd like to know for sure when the knife wound occurred as well. Could be that the killer attempt to kill her initially by slitting her throat and failed in which the killer then struck her on the side of her head. Either way I realize the cut to the throat didn't kill her. [/*]
According to CL's note, "she slit her own throat". I think it's possible Maria and the killer were struggling when the knife (or whatever the sharp object was) wounded her in the neck. I don't think anything about this was so pre-planned that CL slit her throat post-mortem while thinking about what he'd leave in a note weeks later as to what caused her death. MOO :)

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by sunstar

According to CL's note, "she slit her own throat". I think it's possible Maria and the killer were struggling when the knife (or whatever the sharp object was) wounded her in the neck. I don't think anything about this was so pre-planned that CL slit her throat post-mortem while thinking about what he'd leave in a note weeks later as to what caused her death. MOO :) [/*]

IMO CAL slit her throat after killing her, but only after he impulsively cooked up the idea that he would claim she killed herself in front of him.

Why he didn't go with that story to LE is most likely that whoever assisted him in the cleanup at the house (maybe CSL, maybe a buddy) probably told him how ridiculous that was...that LE would not believe him and would arrest him on the spot. But it was too late to do anything about the throat slit.

All JMO.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by AlohaRainbow

one would think that getting an expert to testify about the improbable would be difficult. however, there's dr baden's testimony in the phil spector trial.... :eek: [/*]

Lawdy! So true, so true.

I may have to pin my hopes on the likelihood that Cesar will not have anywhere near the financial wherewithal to pay for that style of testimony.

But the thought - ack! :chicken:

[strick10]

Originally posted by Mimi428


I'll start out by saying that I do believe Cesar killed her & that any involvement Christina may have had did not include being in the same place at the same time as when Maria was killed.

MOO - I don't think Cesar would have even considered trying to kill her by cutting her throat. That takes far too much 'hands on' contact. Swinging a crowbar like you would a bat would be a much easier way to immediately immobilize Maria. Cutting someone's throat would involve wrestling, tussling, struggling against the strength of the victim, etc.

I'm sure the possibility exists that Cesar would want to go the more difficult route of killing her by throat cutting, but it just doesn't rise to the level of probability for me, personally. Again, YMMV.

JMO [/*]

I believe CAL most likely killed Maria as well. I don't know about CAL even thinking about the easiest way to kill her though. If he did then it would have been a pre-mediated murder no? To most cutting the throat would be too "hands on" or difficult but to a Marine it may not seem that way, at least to me it wouldn't. Catch them off guard and be swift. Swinging a crowbar could also cause someone to miss if that victim is fast and ducks.....

[sunstar]

Originally posted by Marcia3


IMO CAL slit her throat after killing her, but only after he impulsively cooked up the idea that he would claim she killed herself in front of him.

Why he didn't go with that story to LE is most likely that whoever assisted him in the cleanup at the house (maybe CSL, maybe a buddy) probably told him how ridiculous that was...that LE would not believe him and would arrest him on the spot. But it was too late to do anything about the throat slit.

All JMO. [/*]
One thing that doesn't make any sense about the neck wound is it wasn't large enough to be fatal, so if he slit her throat after the fact to make it look like she'd killed herself that way why didn't he cut her more? (Not that I expect you or anyone else to know what was in his mind! :) )

[strick10]

Originally posted by sunstar

According to CL's note, "she slit her own throat". I think it's possible Maria and the killer were struggling when the knife (or whatever the sharp object was) wounded her in the neck. I don't think anything about this was so pre-planned that CL slit her throat post-mortem while thinking about what he'd leave in a note weeks later as to what caused her death. MOO :) [/*]

Hey sunstar! 1/2 truths in the notes CAL left I believe......could very well be the cut to the throat came before the head injuries which would fit nicely into CALs story. If Maria had slit her own throat she failed in killing herself and whomever was there had the chance to call LE etc. but they didn't so I can't believe Maria herself inflicted that injury. Because the end result was the death of Maria I think the killer tried to initially kill her by slitting her throat and when that failed struck her. JMO though.

[strick10]

Originally posted by Marcia3


IMO CAL slit her throat after killing her, but only after he impulsively cooked up the idea that he would claim she killed herself in front of him.

Why he didn't go with that story to LE is most likely that whoever assisted him in the cleanup at the house (maybe CSL, maybe a buddy) probably told him how ridiculous that was...that LE would not believe him and would arrest him on the spot. But it was too late to do anything about the throat slit.

All JMO. [/*]

Could be Marcia, could be.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by sunstar

One thing that doesn't make any sense about the neck wound is it wasn't large enough to be fatal, so if he slit her throat after the fact to make it look like she'd killed herself that way why didn't he cut her more? (Not that I expect you or anyone else to know what was in his mind! :) ) [/*]

Same reason - getting so close that you MUST put your hands upon the body of your victim to inflict a knife wound requires a great deal more of you than smashing them does. There is a negative visceral component - a revulsion - that is hard to overcome.

If we see an inch-long roach on the surface of a counter or table or something - we generally will not smack the thing with our bare hand - even though we could certainly kill it by doing so. No, we get something else in our hand & smash it with that - a flyswatter, shoe - ANYTHING that keeps us from having our flesh touch it. Same principle applies - but in a much, much bigger way.

JMO

[sunstar]

Originally posted by strick10


Hey sunstar! 1/2 truths in the notes CAL left I believe......could very well be the cut to the throat came before the head injuries which would fit nicely into CALs story. If Maria had slit her own throat she failed in killing herself and whomever was there had the chance to call LE etc. but they didn't so I can't believe Maria herself inflicted that injury. Because the end result was the death of Maria I think the killer tried to initially kill her by slitting her throat and when that failed struck her. JMO though. [/*]
Yes, I agree and I was thinking his line that she slit her own throat came from her struggling with the knife (or whatever it was). I didn't mean that she was trying to kill herself! :)

[strick10]

Originally posted by sunstar

One thing that doesn't make any sense about the neck wound is it wasn't large enough to be fatal, so if he slit her throat after the fact to make it look like she'd killed herself that way why didn't he cut her more? (Not that I expect you or anyone else to know what was in his mind! :) ) [/*]

Had the guts to kill her but didn't have the guts to cut her neck deep enough to cover his rear. Maybe it was squirmish for him to do so after she was dead....:chicken:

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by Marcia3


My point exactly, Cryme. For everyone who claims that "LE knows more than we do," my response is the same. Yeah, they sure do, and they know that CSL will be a witness in CAL's trial because she has much to tell.

All IMO. [/*]

LALAMA: ........A lot of people feel there is no way that Laurean`s wife cannot be implicit in this, that she had to help him. What is your position?

BROWN: My remarks are, the people that are making those accusations do not have the facts.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0804/11/ng.01.html

[sunstar]

Originally posted by Mimi428


Same reason - getting so close that you MUST put your hands upon the body of your victim to inflict a knife wound requires a great deal more of you than smashing them does. There is a negative visceral component - a revulsion - that is hard to overcome.

If we see an inch-long roach on the surface of a counter or table or something - we generally will not smack the thing with our bare hand - even though we could certainly kill it by doing so. No, we get something else in our hand & smash it with that - a flyswatter, shoe - ANYTHING that keeps us from having our flesh touch it. Same principle applies - but in a much, much bigger way.

JMO [/*]
How would that explain the number of people who are stabbed and slashed to death though? Ron and Nicole come to mind as two examples. :(

[strick10]

Originally posted by Mimi428


Same reason - getting so close that you MUST put your hands upon the body of your victim to inflict a knife wound requires a great deal more of you than smashing them does. There is a negative visceral component - a revulsion - that is hard to overcome.

-respectfully snipped-
JMO [/*]

I'd think it's be mentally harder to inflict wouds to a dead body IMO. Maybe that's why the would wasn't very deep. Hopefully this will be revealed.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by strick10


Here's what I think: I think the struggle began in the dining area (which is why I keep mentioning the dining set). CAL or whomever attempted to kill Maria by cutting her throat but Maria was able to get away and ran into the garage (closest door out of the actual home) where the killer picked up the crowbar and struck her. [/*]

That sounds very logical. That would mean when she got to the home, she was in the home and not just the garage. I was beginning to get away from her just being in the garage. This fits. jmo

[alter ego]

Originally posted by Mimi428


Thanks for that link. I noticed this part at the bottom, too -

Brown said the note “does not hold water” because there were too many inconsistencies with the physical evidence found in the garage.

“There is signs of a violent struggle — a confrontation,” he said.


JMO [/*]
I have to wonder what those signs are and why Christina didn't see them

:shrug:

[sunstar]

Originally posted by strick10


Had the guts to kill her but didn't have the guts to cut her neck deep enough to cover his rear. Maybe it was squirmish for him to do so after she was dead....:chicken: [/*]
But he didn't seem to have a problem touching her body afterward. Someone would've had to wrap her in the sheet/comforter that she was found in. And that's another mystery, did he do that all by himself and carry it out to the backyard without help?

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


LALAMA: ........A lot of people feel there is no way that Laurean`s wife cannot be implicit in this, that she had to help him. What is your position?

BROWN: My remarks are, the people that are making those accusations do not have the facts.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0804/11/ng.01.html [/*]

From that same link, his full response:

BROWN: My remarks are, the people that are making those accusations do not have the facts. We have the facts. And at the present time, there are no evidence to bring charges.

Again, he uses the phrase "present time" and that is telling, IMO.

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by alter ego

I have to wonder what those signs are and why Christina didn't see them

:shrug: [/*]

Good question! I'd like to know that, too.

[sunstar]

Originally posted by alter ego

I have to wonder what those signs are and why Christina didn't see them

:shrug: [/*]
If it were my garage I think I'd notice unless I never went out there. Aside from the blood there'd probably be things knocked over or signs that something happened. MOO :)

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by sunstar

How would that explain the number of people who are stabbed and slashed to death though? Ron and Nicole come to mind as two examples. :( [/*]

Depravity level of the killer in the above case.

Now if Maria had STAB wounds, I would have a different impression of what might have been going on in the mind of the stabber. But the action, position, skill level etc. of cutting someone's throat is way different than it would be for stabbing. (think Norman Bates in the shower scene for stabbing, as an example)
JMO

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by sunstar

If it were my garage I think I'd notice unless I never went out there. Aside from the blood there'd probably be things knocked over or signs that something happened. MOO :) [/*]

My garage is crowded when both our cars are parked inside, and really dark unless the door is open. There are already so many paint stains on the cement floor that it would have to be a large area of blood stain/splatter to make me notice...but if things were knocked over or moved to a different spot, I would definitely see it.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Marcia3


I know you and I don't buy the idea that Maria died accidentally, but you're raising some good potential defense arguments. What scares the you-know-what out of me is that the defense only needs a few jurors to have a lingering doubt. In my heart, I believe CAL killed Maria and Gabriel and I want to see him punished for it.

JMO. [/*]

Yes, that is all I am saying and we never can be assured what a jury or even one juror will decide or believe. We have been shocked before.........

There is no such thing as a slam dunk case imo and there will be a defense in this case and we don't know yet if it will be far fetched at all.

I do know that the odds are against CL because of the vast adverse publicity to do with this case but we still don't know what the defense attorney, experts or investigators may uncover or what will be turned over in discovery.

imoo

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by Marcia3


Good question! I'd like to know that, too. [/*]

It has always amazed me how people who live with a murderer don't know.

Let's face it this is not the first time this has happened. I can only say that things going on around them don't register because they are not paying attention to the person being a murderer.

After the person finds out what was going on, they began to remember things that were suspicious and they didn't realize it. I do believe Christina may be asking herself over and over again why she didn't realize what was going on.

Human nature is such you just don't suspect someone you love is a murderer.

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by Marcia3


From that same link, his full response:

BROWN: My remarks are, the people that are making those accusations do not have the facts. We have the facts. And at the present time, there are no evidence to bring charges.

Again, he uses the phrase "present time" and that is telling, IMO. [/*]

I disagree that it is telling. It would be crazy for him NOT to say that, IMO. Because anything can come up in the future. But I daresay he doubts it very much. Not that I know what he's thinking. Someone said something about "egg on their face" somewhere upthread, IF something comes out about Christina being complicit. Well of course! But as I've said before, he's all BUT come out and cleared her. And that is all he can do at the present time.

[strick10]

Originally posted by sunstar

But he didn't seem to have a problem touching her body afterward. Someone would've had to wrap her in the sheet/comforter that she was found in. And that's another mystery, did he do that all by himself and carry it out to the backyard without help? [/*]

Touching and cutting a dead body are two different things. One would bring more hesitation than the other I'd think By the time he cut the neck (if it happened after she was dead) and placed her in the comforter he'd probably wasn't in a rage anymore.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by sunstar

But he didn't seem to have a problem touching her body afterward. Someone would've had to wrap her in the sheet/comforter that she was found in. And that's another mystery, did he do that all by himself and carry it out to the backyard without help? [/*]

I don't think we really know how much of a problem he had during the removal process. Heck, for all I know, he could have been heaving his guts up at the thought of doing it. He may have had to get drunk beforehand. I think knowing he HAD to move it propelled him to overcome whatever fear, dread, revulsion he may have felt.

But ultimately, I sure don't know how much terror, panic, nausea he did or didn't feel while all that was going on.

JMO

[AmyO]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


LALAMA: ........A lot of people feel there is no way that Laurean`s wife cannot be implicit in this, that she had to help him. What is your position?

BROWN: My remarks are, the people that are making those accusations do not have the facts.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0804/11/ng.01.html [/*]
This drives me crazy! I wish we knew when she got home after the Christmas party. Her house would have been full of blood and I'm sure smelled like blood. How could she have no idea what the heck happened? I can't wait to hear her explanation. Should be a hoot.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Marcia3


From that same link, his full response:

BROWN: My remarks are, the people that are making those accusations do not have the facts. We have the facts. And at the present time, there are no evidence to bring charges.

Again, he uses the phrase "present time" and that is telling, IMO. [/*]

I see all of this now with the DA coming out along with Christina's lawyer as if they are getting this out there like "calm before the storm."

And it seems when SB talks of CSL he always prefaces it with "present time" or "not at this time"......... I think he is fully thinking that could be subject to change once CAL is return and if he is willing to talk.

imoo

[sunstar]

Originally posted by Mimi428


Depravity level of the killer in the above case.

Now if Maria had STAB wounds, I would have a different impression of what might have been going on in the mind of the stabber. But the action, position, skill level etc. of cutting someone's throat is way different than it would be for stabbing. (think Norman Bates in the shower scene for stabbing, as an example)
JMO [/*]
Ok, I see what you're saying and it would be unusual for a killer to start out by trying to slit someones throat (which is personal) and then change to bludgeoning them over the head with another object (which is impersonal and detached).

[sunstar]

Originally posted by AmyO

This drives me crazy! I wish we knew when she got home after the Christmas party. Her house would have been full of blood and I'm sure smelled like blood. How could she have no idea what the heck happened? I can't wait to hear her explanation. Should be a hoot. [/*]
And don't forget how their dog would've been reacting. ;)

[AmyO]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I see all of this now with the DA coming out along with Christina's lawyer as if they are getting this out there like "calm before the storm."

And it seems when SB talks of CSL he always prefaces it with "present time" or "not at this time"......... I think he is fully thinking that could be subject to change once CAL is return and if he is willing to talk.

imoo [/*]
What do you think she told SB about the evening of 12/14? The video of Cesar and his budy at Lowe's or Home Depot getting the paint and fire pit stuff - what day was that? 12/15? I forget. If she returned home between 7pm on 12/14 and even early in the am of 12/15, she would have seen the carnage that took place in her house and a dead body on her property. Don't you think? What could she have said to SB about her whereabouts? That she saw Maria at her house and left for a week? Oh, I can't wait to get the whole story!! LOL

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I see all of this now with the DA coming out along with Christina's lawyer as if they are getting this out there like "calm before the storm."

And it seems when SB talks of CSL he always prefaces it with "present time" or "not at this time"......... I think he is fully thinking that could be subject to change once CAL is return and if he is willing to talk.

imoo [/*]

The DA said he is completely sure Christina is not involved in the murder or cover up on Greta's show. I just am amazed posters don't understand this. IMO

It's over with the blame of Christina. She will not be charged. imo

What ever Cesar says or doesn't say will not change this. jmo

LE and the DA know much more then us.
JMO

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by AmyO

This drives me crazy! I wish we knew when she got home after the Christmas party. Her house would have been full of blood and I'm sure smelled like blood. How could she have no idea what the heck happened? I can't wait to hear her explanation. Should be a hoot. [/*]

Maybe it won't be a hoot at all. Maybe she came in at 7:00, opened the door, yelled out, "Hey Cesar, just left that party, running to my sister's to get Abrianna. I'll be back later." Then she went over to her sister's and stayed up yakking till 2 in the morning.

See what I mean? Who knows? Maybe the above happened, maybe LE know it, maybe it's verified by her sister as well as others.

I'm just throwing a possible scenario out there, which doesn't sound like a hoot.....again, we just simply do not know.

"We" (again, generic) are ASSUMING that Christina came home immediately after the party and stayed at home. We are also ASSUMING Maria was killed very shortly before Christina got home. We are ASSUMING Cesar had no time for clean-up.

Well, if you assume all that, sure Christina had to know. But....we DON'T know if all that is true!

[AmyO]

Originally posted by sunstar

And don't forget how their dog would've been reacting. ;) [/*]
Ooooo- the dog - I forgot about him. I wonder if they treated that dog like a member of the family or just an animal. Maybe Christina didn't even pick up on the state the dog was in.

[sunstar]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I see all of this now with the DA coming out along with Christina's lawyer as if they are getting this out there like "calm before the storm."

And it seems when SB talks of CSL he always prefaces it with "present time" or "not at this time"......... I think he is fully thinking that could be subject to change once CAL is return and if he is willing to talk.

imoo [/*]
Hi GB :) If they are waiting to see if CL talks when he's returned from Mexico there isn't much of a case against him, imo. There is supposed to be enough evidence right now that he committed the murder.

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


Maybe it won't be a hoot at all. Maybe she came in at 7:00, opened the door, yelled out, "Hey Cesar, just left that party, running to my sister's to get Abrianna. I'll be back later." Then she went over to her sister's and stayed up yakking till 2 in the morning.

See what I mean? Who knows? Maybe the above happened, maybe LE know it, maybe it's verified by her sister as well as others.

I'm just throwing a possible scenario out there, which doesn't sound like a hoot.....again, we just simply do not know.

"We" (again, generic) are ASSUMING that Christina came home immediately after the party and stayed at home. We are also ASSUMING Maria was killed very shortly before Christina got home. We are ASSUMING Cesar had no time for clean-up.

Well, if you assume all that, sure Christina had to know. But....we DON'T know if all that is true! [/*]

Absolutely correct. The timeline is at the center of this situation, and without a specific one for CSL's actions the night of 12/14, we are just in a state of :shrug:

[sunstar]

Originally posted by AmyO

Ooooo- the dog - I forgot about him. I wonder if they treated that dog like a member of the family or just an animal. Maybe Christina didn't even pick up on the state the dog was in. [/*]
I was thinking more along the lines of the dog's reaction to blood in the garage (like going to the door wanting to get in there) and being agitated which would give a clue to her that something was wrong. ;)

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by sunstar

Ok, I see what you're saying and it would be unusual for a killer to start out by trying to slit someones throat (which is personal) and then change to bludgeoning them over the head with another object (which is impersonal and detached). [/*]

Some folks here believe it was a crime of passion - I can accept that as a possibility, knowing that she died of a huge blow to her head.

But if she HAD died from having her throat cut, I don't think I could accept it as a crime of passion. Crime of built-up rage that had been simmering until it blew up - yes.

JMO

[AmyO]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


Maybe it won't be a hoot at all. Maybe she came in at 7:00, opened the door, yelled out, "Hey Cesar, just left that party, running to my sister's to get Abrianna. I'll be back later." Then she went over to her sister's and stayed up yakking till 2 in the morning.

See what I mean? Who knows? Maybe the above happened, maybe LE know it, maybe it's verified by her sister as well as others.

I'm just throwing a possible scenario out there, which doesn't sound like a hoot.....again, we just simply do not know.

"We" (again, generic) are ASSUMING that Christina came home immediately after the party and stayed at home. We are also ASSUMING Maria was killed very shortly before Christina got home. We are ASSUMING Cesar had no time for clean-up.

Well, if you assume all that, sure Christina had to know. But....we DON'T know if all that is true! [/*]
I see what you mean, that's why I was asking what day it was that Cesar bought the paint and fire pit stuff. That would be the only explanation Christina would have is that she never came home from the party until AFTER Cesar repainted and buried Maria's body. I could see where she would believe him if she asked about the missing fence sections and he came up with some lame excuse. Anything's possible I guess but she would have to be away from the house for a period of time for SB to say she isn't involved. imo Maybe she was. :confused:

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by Mimi428


Some folks here believe it was a crime of passion - I can accept that as a possibility, knowing that she died of a huge blow to her head.

But if she HAD died from having her throat cut, I don't think I could accept it as a crime of passion. Crime of built-up rage that had been simmering until it blew up - yes.

JMO [/*]

Yep, slitting a throat seems like a planned thing, maybe a "professional level" kind of murder, if that makes any sense. A crime of passion or rage would fit more with the head wound, a stabbing, or a gunshot, but not a throat being slit. JMO of course.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Mimi428


I'll start out by saying that I do believe Cesar killed her & that any involvement Christina may have had did not include being in the same place at the same time as when Maria was killed.

MOO - I don't think Cesar would have even considered trying to kill her by cutting her throat. That takes far too much 'hands on' contact. Swinging a crowbar like you would a bat would be a much easier way to immediately immobilize Maria. Cutting someone's throat would involve wrestling, tussling, struggling against the strength of the victim, etc.

I'm sure the possibility exists that Cesar would want to go the more difficult route of killing her by throat cutting, but it just doesn't rise to the level of probability for me, personally. Again, YMMV.

JMO [/*]

I would think if he did this he would have done it up close and personal. This was someone he knew. The rage would have been personal. Maria wasn't a stranger and the anger would have been directed toward her because of that imo.

We really don't know if the 4" x 2" gaping wound was before or after her death but if he is the one guilty of this I would have thought he would have taken the knife and slashed her across the throat ear to ear like we see in other cases where the victim and the suspect knew each other. The picking up of a weapon just laying near by sounds more like what a weaker person would want to do to level the power struggle between the victim and the perp. IMO Laurean would have had no problem overcoming Maria by either strangling her, beating her to death or slashing her throat with one swipe.

If he had this much pent up rage I would expect him to commit a very up close and personal murder.

BUT like so many things in this case it leaves more questions than answers.

imoo

[Squawk Box]

I don't think the defense using crime of passion will mitigate what Cesar did in the jurors eyes. jmo

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_of_passion

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by Squawk Box
I don't think the defense using crime of passion will mitigate what Cesar did in the jurors eyes. jmo

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_of_passion [/*]

No doubt, but I don't believe "crime of passion" will be Cesar's defense. That's like saying "I did it, BUT....."

[Marcia3]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


No doubt, but I don't believe "crime of passion" will be Cesar's defense. That's like saying "I did it, BUT....." [/*]

ITA.

[alter ego]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


No doubt, but I don't believe "crime of passion" will be Cesar's defense. That's like saying "I did it, BUT....." [/*]
But they could very well put forth an affirmative defense to get the charge lowered.

[martha]

I just wonder if ml bought the baby cloths to take and show to cl and after what ever happened he just put them in the grave because he did not know what elce to do with them. after cl said he loved her makes me think they were planing to meet somewhere later on. something in my heart of hearts just tells me there was a love aff going on here. I think cl come in from the party and caught them togeather and up until that time she was believing her husband on his side of the story and cl thought there was nothing between them until she come from the party that night and caught them togeather. cl was then caught in the middle and could not think fast enough. if he was going to leave with ml but was telling his wife he did not care for ml then he had to kill her to prove to his wife what he had been saying.. jmho nothing more. this is a guessing game with everyone right now.:rose:

[sunstar]

Originally posted by Mimi428


Some folks here believe it was a crime of passion - I can accept that as a possibility, knowing that she died of a huge blow to her head.

But if she HAD died from having her throat cut, I don't think I could accept it as a crime of passion. Crime of built-up rage that had been simmering until it blew up - yes.

JMO [/*]
I don't think CL premeditated her death. But it's never made much sense to me why the cut throat AND hitting her over the head, if the end result was going to be burning her in the back yard so no one would know what the cause of death was? We know the burning wasn't sufficient to prevent the ME from determining that, but it seems the purpose was there. That's why I think it's possible a knife was involved initially, then a struggle and it might have been dropped, and Maria got away temporarily until the killer picked up crowbar (or whatever).

[sunstar]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I would think if he did this he would have done it up close and personal. This was someone he knew. The rage would have been personal. Maria wasn't a stranger and the anger would have been directed toward her because of that imo.

We really don't know if the 4" x 2" gaping wound was before or after her death but if he is the one guilty of this I would have thought he would have taken the knife and slashed her across the throat ear to ear like we see in other cases where the victim and the suspect knew each other. The picking up of a weapon just laying near by sounds more like what a weaker person would want to do to level the power struggle between the victim and the perp. IMO Laurean would have had no problem overcoming Maria by either strangling her, beating her to death or slashing her throat with one swipe.

If he had this much pent up rage I would expect him to commit a very up close and personal murder.

BUT like so many things in this case it leaves more questions than answers.

imoo [/*]
I was thinking the same thing, GB, and that's why I've always been confused with the two weapons involved. CL wouldn't have needed the crowbar, imo, to easily overpower a very pregnant Maria.

[sunstar]

Originally posted by alter ego

But they could very well put forth an affirmative defense to get the charge lowered. [/*]
You're right, a manslaughter conviction would be a lot better than murder, but I don't think the defense will go this way. He pretty much has to stick with "I didn't do it" after leaving the note ~ which will be brought into evidence, I'm sure.

[alter ego]

Originally posted by sunstar

You're right, a manslaughter conviction would be a lot better than murder, but I don't think the defense will go this way. He pretty much has to stick with "I didn't do it" after leaving the note ~ which will be brought into evidence, I'm sure. [/*]
Unless it is quashed as privileged communication between spouses. :shrug:

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by alter ego

Unless it is quashed as privileged communication between spouses. :shrug: [/*]

Are you talking about his "notes" that Christina took to LE?

[strick10]

Originally posted by alter ego

Unless it is quashed as privileged communication between spouses. :shrug: [/*]

You're kidding right? That could actually happen?

[alter ego]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


Are you talking about his "notes" that Christina took to LE? [/*]Yes.

[alter ego]

Originally posted by strick10


You're kidding right? That could actually happen? [/*]From what I understand, yes - if she were to refuse to authenticate the origin of the writings.

The defense cannot claim marital privilege, but Christina can.

[sunstar]

Originally posted by alter ego

Unless it is quashed as privileged communication between spouses. :shrug: [/*]
Not that I don't believe you, but she's already taken them to the MC and LE. Would that make a difference?


eta ~ I see your answer to another post. :)

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by alter ego
From what I understand, yes - if she were to refuse to authenticate the origin of the writings.

The defense cannot claim marital privilege, but Christina can. [/*]

If she up and did that (in addition to corresponding with a fugitive and deserter), she probably should high tail it out of Jacksonville.

She would be, in essence, allowing "her man" to walk. And walk he would.

I mean, people with integrity don't turn and do an about face after being propped up by the DA and LE with the "cooperative" tag, do they?

[sunstar]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


If she up and did that (in addition to corresponding with a fugitive and deserter), she probably should high tail it out of Jacksonville.

She would be, in essence, allowing "her man" to walk. And walk he would.

I mean, people with integrity don't turn and do an about face after being propped up by the DA and LE with the "cooperative" tag, do they? [/*]
You're right, someone with integrity wouldn't do that after she's given LE her full cooperation. ;)

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by alter ego
From what I understand, yes - if she were to refuse to authenticate the origin of the writings.

The defense cannot claim marital privilege, but Christina can. [/*]

I doubt she would do that.

Sheesh, we are REALLY getting into trial speculation here, LOL! I swear he's going to confess! Well at least that's my best guess right now.

[daniel green]

Once a spouse chooses to break the privilege and gives LE information--in this case, the notes--it cannot be "taken back."

[daniel green]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


snipped! I swear he's going to confess! Well at least that's my best guess right now. [/*]

That is my guess, too.

[sunstar]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


IMO it was a crime of passion and she was killed with the first thing handy at the moment...whatever that was.... [/*]
I agree. :)

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by sunstar

You're right, someone with integrity wouldn't do that after she's given LE her full cooperation. ;) [/*]

Apparently "integrity" doesn't mean the same now as it used to.

:shrug:

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by AnnieBean
But, if she was only hit once with the weapon, there wouldn't be cast off blood in more than one room, right?
Cos' wasn't there cast- off blood in garage and on dining room walls and/or ceiling? [/*]

IIRC, Sheriff Brown said that there was blood in another room in the house, in addition to the garage. He may have said "more than one room", just right now I can't remember. Even RS said the greatest amount of blood was in the garage. So, would that mean that there were lesser amounts in another room or rooms?

I'm sure there's a link around here somewhere.

Better ETA JMO

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by sunstar

According to CL's note, "she slit her own throat". I think it's possible Maria and the killer were struggling when the knife (or whatever the sharp object was) wounded her in the neck. I don't think anything about this was so pre-planned that CL slit her throat post-mortem while thinking about what he'd leave in a note weeks later as to what caused her death. MOO :) [/*]

I never gave the knife much thought....but what you are saying definitely has a MAJOR POSSIBILITY IMO. So if they struggled with the knife and the wound came that way....and someone thought she was dead or was just so far out of control by then....OH MY...

I'm glad you brought that up today Sun. Thanks.

JMO:seeya:

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by sunstar

How would that explain the number of people who are stabbed and slashed to death though? Ron and Nicole come to mind as two examples. :( [/*]

Good question Sun. :(

[Ionmhainn]

I was just thinking about the e-mail to SB. Any thoughts on why CL would be so concerned about being tried by the MC? It's my understanding that the DP had to be taken off the books by USMC as well as civilian LE in order for him to be extradited. I'm assuming he would know that as he had been in contact with his wife.
TIA.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I think what they have is a case where the time of death is unknown. No time of death is even on the death certificate. So since they do not know they have no way to refute CSLs words that she wasn't in the home at the time. Its that simple imo. Since this crime occurred behind closed doors on Meadow Trail and there were no eye witness to the murder, except by the participant or participants or as to when it happened exactly...this is her ace in the hole.

As long as they cannot narrow the time of death down CSL is home free. I would think that after almost a month there is no forensic evidence tying either one of them to the actual murder. I do believe there is much forensic evidence showing that Maria died in the garage.

With Cesar's get out of jail free notes he left behind in CSLs possessions they will mostly try him on a circumstantial evidence. He has admitted that he buried her and that she came there. He did not say however, conveniently for CSL imo, who else may have been there or came in at that time.

I looked at SBs body language and he does think it is ludicrous that she is not involved in this imo. He said "possible" and stranger things have happened. I wonder what can be stranger than this case? He however did not say it was a probability just a possibility. Like there is a possibility that I may win a lottery but the probability is almost non existent.

I think that is why he has been so respectful to Laurean. He wants him to come back and really tell them the truth and who was involved. I think the gloves are off between Christina and Laurean and the line drawn in the sand when he made the comment to the media that he loved Maria.

For a defense attorney to polish a client is one thing but for a DA to do so is very unprofessional. Not once did we hear ADA Rick Distaso come out and sing Amber's praises before trial. IMO the tainting of the jury pool has begun. There was no reason to divulge all the lovey dovey stuff and woes about CSL except to try to change the majority steadfast opinions about her in his county and imo it backfired and is not working as he thought.

moo [/*]

I think Dewey Hudson seems like a really decent human being and when I see the PC video I am reminded of all that's gone wrong with our system from time to time. For a moment, I was reminded of Nifong trying to polish Crystal even tho it was a different situation, SHE WAS NOT TELLING THE TRUTH and it all blew up.

But then seeing this video gives me faith he is possibly walking a tight rope with a shakey witness that could be ultimately something else IMO.

Time will tell....

http://www.wral.com/news/local/video/2724205/

(35 seconds into the video)


SHOUT OUT TO KATHY RAE - ITA with the majority of your posts and offer :beer: .

ALL JMO.:patriot:

[strick10]

Originally posted by Ionmhainn
I was just thinking about the e-mail to SB. Any thoughts on why CL would be so concerned about being tried by the MC? It's my understanding that the DP had to be taken off the books by USMC as well as civilian LE in order for him to be extradited. I'm assuming he would know that as he had been in contact with his wife.
TIA. [/*]

IIRC CAL thinks he'll be convicted by the MC w/ no evidence. This is not true. He also doesn't want to be on Leavenworths chain gang. :shrug: IMO I think he's afraid of the MC charging him w/ both deaths (Maria and Baby) amoungst other charges and maybe placing the death penalty on the table regardless of what Mexico says, which the latter I don't believe will happen. He probably just doesn't want to spend the rest of his life doing hard labor and that is probably what the MC would sentence him to....harsher punishment than a civilian court. JMO.

[alter ego]

Originally posted by daniel green
Once a spouse chooses to break the privilege and gives LE information--in this case, the notes--it cannot be "taken back." [/*]Link to that.

[crymeariver2006]

Do they still have chain gangs?

:shrug:

In any event, Hudson says on that same video that IF the MC is going to file charges, they have to do it before he's extradited. Or before the extradition hearing takes place.

I think, in the end, the only charges that will come from the MC is for desertion.

That just IMO.

[strick10]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006
Do they still have chain gangs?

:shrug:

In any event, Hudson says on that same video that IF the MC is going to file charges, they have to do it before he's extradited. Or before the extradition hearing takes place.

I think, in the end, the only charges that will come from the MC is for desertion.

That just IMO. [/*]

I don't think they still have chain gangs. I just don't know (and don't want to find out) web sites providing info on Leavenworth makes it sound like the prisoners work but not on chain gangs.. I completely agree that the only charges the MC will render are the desertion charges, but, then again they want CALs DNA so maybe other charges are forthcoming such as adultry. No telling until we get to there.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by strick10


I don't think they still have chain gangs. I just don't know (and don't want to find out) web sites providing info on Leavenworth makes it sound like the prisoners work but not on chain gangs.. I completely agree that the only charges the MC will render are the desertion charges, but, then again they want CALs DNA so maybe other charges are forthcoming such as adultry. No telling until we get to there. [/*]

Wouldn't the desertion effectively discharge him (dishonorably)? If so, are they known for 'piling on' lesser offenses that carry far less punishment?

[Devotion]

Originally posted by strick10

Here's what I think:
I think the struggle began in the dining area (which is why I keep mentioning the dining set).

CAL or whomever attempted to kill Maria by cutting

her throat but Maria was able to get away and ran

into the garage (closest door out of the actual home)

where the killer picked up the crowbar and struck her..... [/*]

I AGREE!
Below are a few possibilities I've thought of:

Possibly someone grabbing a knife as they struggled in the dining/ kitchen area.
Maria could have grabbed the knife in self defense, and it was taken away from her by the attacker and that person cut her throat as she turned to run toward the garage.
Or the attacker could have threatened M. with the knife before the fight began.

M. was probably hit from behind, while trying to escape out the garage, back door...
or she could have fallen over some of that junk in the garage and then hit from behind while trying to leave.

Another question I have is: Who did the knife belong to?
I'd like to know what was said in that argument that was so terrible that it made M. want to kill herself.?
IF there was an argument....and not a jealous wife chasing her with a knife.

Strangely, we are told that both CL's women wanted to kill themselves.

Maria was raised very Religious and I do not believe she would have considered suicide that far along in her pregnancy regardless of what the alleged argument was over......jmo

[alter ego]

Originally posted by Ionmhainn
I was just thinking about the e-mail to SB. Any thoughts on why CL would be so concerned about being tried by the MC? It's my understanding that the DP had to be taken off the books by USMC as well as civilian LE in order for him to be extradited. I'm assuming he would know that as he had been in contact with his wife.
TIA. [/*]He doesn't want to do hard time at Leavenworth breaking big rocks into little rocks.

[Kim]

just reinstated......:shrug:
anyway wanted to let "those of you" know I emptied my PM box.Ill try and monitor it better.:hat:

[lonetraveler]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


The DA said he is completely sure Christina is not involved in the murder or cover up on Greta's show. I just am amazed posters don't understand this. IMO

It's over with the blame of Christina. She will not be charged. imo

What ever Cesar says or doesn't say will not change this. jmo

LE and the DA know much more then us.
JMO [/*]

==============================================
It's not over til the fat lady sings. If any new evidence is revealed showing that she was involved, she can be charged. LE have been known to do an about face in a flat minute. They are pretty much stuck at this time to give her the benefit of the doubt. There are way too many open questions right now. The whole story has not been told. Yes, what Cesar says will make a difference. Remember, legally, he is innocent until a jury decides that he is guilty. Right now, he is charged with murder, mainly based upon Christina's story or omissions, which ever way you want to interpret. I can not accept that she is totally innocent in this case. IMO, she knows a lot more than she is saying and I hope the whole story comes out.

[Devotion]

Originally posted by sunstar

I was thinking the same thing, GB, and that's why I've always been confused with the two weapons involved.

CL wouldn't have needed the crowbar, imo, to easily overpower a very pregnant Maria. [/*]

I hope I don't get anyone upset because of the following thought:
Has this crossed anyone's mind other than mine?

What IF M and C were "caught" in bed, and a struggle took place as M. tried to leave ??....

this being the reason she was found with nothing on from the waist down??? jmo

[hinman]

Originally posted by lonetraveler


==============================================
It's not over til the fat lady sings. If any new evidence is revealed showing that she was involved, she can be charged. LE have been known to do an about face in a flat minute. They are pretty much stuck at this time to give her the benefit of the doubt. There are way too many open questions right now. The whole story has not been told. Yes, what Cesar says will make a difference. Remember, legally, he is innocent until a jury decides that he is guilty. Right now, he is charged with murder, mainly based upon Christina's story or omissions, which ever way you want to interpret. I can not accept that she is totally innocent in this case. IMO, she knows a lot more than she is saying and I hope the whole story comes out. [/*]Hello lonetraveler. I just wanted to say that I sure hope he is not charged just on Christina's story. I hope they have some kind of evidence besides that.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by sunstar

I don't think CL premeditated her death. But it's never made much sense to me why the cut throat AND hitting her over the head, if the end result was going to be burning her in the back yard so no one would know what the cause of death was? We know the burning wasn't sufficient to prevent the ME from determining that, but it seems the purpose was there. That's why I think it's possible a knife was involved initially, then a struggle and it might have been dropped, and Maria got away temporarily until the killer picked up crowbar (or whatever). [/*]

Yes indeed that would make sense sun.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by martha
I just wonder if ml bought the baby cloths to take and show to cl and after what ever happened he just put them in the grave because he did not know what elce to do with them. after cl said he loved her makes me think they were planing to meet somewhere later on. something in my heart of hearts just tells me there was a love aff going on here. I think cl come in from the party and caught them togeather and up until that time she was believing her husband on his side of the story and cl thought there was nothing between them until she come from the party that night and caught them togeather. cl was then caught in the middle and could not think fast enough. if he was going to leave with ml but was telling his wife he did not care for ml then he had to kill her to prove to his wife what he had been saying.. jmho nothing more. this is a guessing game with everyone right now.:rose: [/*]

I agree that is all possible, but I keep going back to a scorned woman doing that. JMO tho.

IT would fit either way tho from my POV and I hope you are feeling better today Martha. Good wishes are always sent your way. :rose:

JMO

[henry]

Originally posted by Ionmhainn
I was just thinking about the e-mail to SB. Any thoughts on why CL would be so concerned about being tried by the MC? It's my understanding that the DP had to be taken off the books by USMC as well as civilian LE in order for him to be extradited. I'm assuming he would know that as he had been in contact with his wife.
TIA. [/*]

i've been thinking the same thing and the only other thing i can add to what's been posted . . . maybe he was also reading the military blogs and knew that he would be one hated dude in a military jail. jmo

[Kim]

Originally posted by Devotion


I hope I don't get anyone upset because of the following thought:
Has this crossed anyone's mind other than mine?

What IF M and C were "caught" in bed, and a struggle took place as M. tried to leave ??....

this being the reason she was found with nothing on from the waist down??? jmo [/*]
That's exactly what I think!!
Sorry I just realised not one person I have ever talked to are on the forum tonight.You all are surely wondering "who is Kim" LOL
I am a marine mom been following the story since it started. wont post much.cant keep up just saying hi here and expressing MOO

[hinman]

Originally posted by sunstar

I don't think CL premeditated her death. But it's never made much sense to me why the cut throat AND hitting her over the head, if the end result was going to be burning her in the back yard so no one would know what the cause of death was? We know the burning wasn't sufficient to prevent the ME from determining that, but it seems the purpose was there. That's why I think it's possible a knife was involved initially, then a struggle and it might have been dropped, and Maria got away temporarily until the killer picked up crowbar (or whatever). [/*]For some reason the use of the knife initially seems more premeditated to me then rage.

Rage would be the heat of the moment, pick up the closes thing near.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by alter ego
From what I understand, yes - if she were to refuse to authenticate the origin of the writings.

The defense cannot claim marital privilege, but Christina can. [/*]

So are you saying I could go and report a crime such as my husband burying a body behind my house using his note and turn it over to LE. Then LE issue charges that are based partly on what I gave them, and I can retract that???:confused:

I can't buy that one, but if you show me something that says they handle it like that in NC, I will certainly concede I was wrong. It just makes no sense given that was used to alert LE to a crime IMHO.

ALL JMO. :seeya:

[hinman]

Originally posted by henry


i've been thinking the same thing and the only other thing i can add to what's been posted . . . maybe he was also reading the military blogs and knew that he would be one hated dude in a military jail. jmo [/*]Good point henry. I am sure he read some of the comments over at Jd news. I bet he was looking up newspaper articles about the case. They did say he spent hours at times on the computer.

[Kim]

this is sad.this poster said she went to boot camp with Maria.ran into her at walmart in November and she was 7 months pregnant.She said Maria couldnt wait to have her baby
http://lejeuneunderground.com/topic.jsp?w=&s=240&n=30&topicId=11113940
[/quote]

[Kim]

poster also said it was while on a 96 wouldnt this have been during the time of the party?

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by lonetraveler


==============================================
It's not over til the fat lady sings. If any new evidence is revealed showing that she was involved, she can be charged. LE have been known to do an about face in a flat minute. They are pretty much stuck at this time to give her the benefit of the doubt. There are way too many open questions right now. The whole story has not been told. Yes, what Cesar says will make a difference. Remember, legally, he is innocent until a jury decides that he is guilty. Right now, he is charged with murder, mainly based upon Christina's story or omissions, which ever way you want to interpret. I can not accept that she is totally innocent in this case. IMO, she knows a lot more than she is saying and I hope the whole story comes out. [/*]

Lonetraveler, the DA is not completely sure of anything if you watch this video about 35 seconds in IMO.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/video/2724205/


The fat lady isn't even in the house from what I got. ;) JMO.

[strick10]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


Wouldn't the desertion effectively discharge him (dishonorably)? If so, are they known for 'piling on' lesser offenses that carry far less punishment? [/*]

Desertion doesn't automatically mean discharge IIRC. In this case yes he would get a BCD due to the reason behind him leaving. My thinking is if the desertion charge is all they're going to press then why bother w/ the DNA.

[Babes]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


The DA said he is completely sure Christina is not involved in the murder or cover up on Greta's show. I just am amazed posters don't understand this. IMO



Looks like he needs some training from Gloria Allred as his free PR for Xtina is not going to work here :)

[henry]

Originally posted by Kim
this is sad.this poster said she went to boot camp with Maria.ran into her at walmart in November and she was 7 months pregnant.She said Maria couldnt wait to have her baby
http://lejeuneunderground.com/topic.jsp?w=&s=240&n=30&topicId=11113940
[/*][/QUOTE]

wow . . . i completely forgot about the lj underground site . . . there were a lot of good things on there - thanks for the reminder! jmo and all.

edit . . . what's a 96?

[Kim]

also
http://lejeuneunderground.com/topic.jsp?topicId=11113982[/url]



i think she knew and was involved as well.
link> http://lejeuneunderground.com/topic.jsp?topicId=11113940

[Kim]

Originally posted by henry
[/*]

wow . . . i completely forgot about the lj underground site . . . there were a lot of good things on there - thanks for the reminder! jmo and all.

edit . . . what's a 96? [/*][/QUOTE]
a 96 is a leave 96 hours like a 4 day weekend Marine speak

[hinman]

Originally posted by Kim
poster also said it was while on a 96 wouldnt this have been during the time of the party? [/*]The post said Thanksgiving. So I would say it was not the time of the party

[strick10]

Originally posted by Devotion


-respectfully snipped-
Another question I have is: Who did the knife belong to?
I'd like to know what was said in that argument that was so terrible that it made M. want to kill herself.?
IF there was an argument....and not a jealous wife chasing her with a knife.

Strangely, we are told that both CL's women wanted to kill themselves.

[/*]

There's no telling where the knife or whatever was used to cut her neck is. I'm not convinced Maria tried to kill herself. If that were the case why did the person there with her make sure she was dead using another method.

[Kim]

if the knife wound were made AFTER she died the heart wouldnt be pumping the blood (no pressure) no spray MOO

[Babes]

so where is this famous knife? Does Maria usually carry a knife with her? Or this is just a kitchen knife inside the house?

Amazing that someone who is so mad and doesnt live there went directly to the kitchen just to get a knife and killed herself :(

[hinman]

Originally posted by Babes
so where is this famous knife? Does Maria usually carry a knife with her? Or this is just a kitchen knife inside the house?

Amazing that someone who is so mad and doesnt live there went directly to the kitchen just to get a knife and killed herself :( [/*]It might have been in the truck since they did find evidence in there. :shrug:

[damienstoy]

Originally posted by strick10


Desertion doesn't automatically mean discharge IIRC. In this case yes he would get a BCD due to the reason behind him leaving. My thinking is if the desertion charge is all they're going to press then why bother w/ the DNA. [/*]

But he would also get time in Leavenworth, wouldn't he? And potentially a long period of time before he was released and discharged?

If so, additional charges could prolong his imprisonment, couldn't they?

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by Babes


Looks like he needs some training from Gloria Allred as his free PR for Xtina is not going to work here :) [/*]

And some of those brooches and Chanel suits wouldn't hurt.

:D

[Babes]

Originally posted by hinman
It might have been in the truck since they did find evidence in there. :shrug: [/*]

Why is it in there? They/He/She have almost a month to dispose it - weird :confused:

[Janz]

Originally posted by Kim
also
http://lejeuneunderground.com/topic.jsp?topicId=11113982[/url]

also thought this post was interesting
corasmommie --- 80 days ago - quote
my husband works right next to where ceasar and lauderbach worked. he found out that laurean had apparently buried her and then dug her up, tore that section of his fence down covered her up with it, and then threw a few parties over the next few days burning the fence. he wasnt sure if it was true or not but its what he heard. you would think someone wouldve noticed something if it is true

i think she knew and was involved as well.
link> http://lejeuneunderground.com/topic.jsp?topicId=11113940 [/*]

Maybe this is true, especially since they first looked for Maria`s body on ATV`s is the woods near the Laurean home. Thanks Kim!

[alter ego]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


And some of those brooches and Chanel suits wouldn't hurt.

:D [/*]Now I want to gouge my eyes out

[Kim]

Originally posted by hinman
It might have been in the truck since they did find evidence in there. :shrug: [/*]
IIRC a friend/neighbor turned in the crowbar after they realised it may be of some significance.
Considering they found some sort of evidence in the truck maybe it was a knife.
All marines are issued a bayonnette but it stays in the armory and if you are deployed you are issued a combat knife which must be returned.(Got this info form my son) so I will say MOOO!
These things can be purchased on ebay also.
If it was a crime of passion any knife on hand would have been used MOO

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by strick10


There's no telling where the knife or whatever was used to cut her neck is. I'm not convinced Maria tried to kill herself. If that were the case why did the person there with her make sure she was dead using another method. [/*]

IMO, the knife was used to make sure she was dead.

Quite the contrast in injuries/weapons. Almost like it wasn't the same person who did both.....

[hinman]

Originally posted by Babes


Why is it in there? They/He/She have almost a month to dispose it - weird :confused: [/*]It probably wasn't in there.

I would love to know what was though.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by alter ego
Now I want to gouge my eyes out [/*]

Yeah, it's gonna be worth the drive to Jacksonville just to see which brooch Dewey wears each day!

I'll be sure and report back!

:D

[strick10]

Originally posted by Kim
poster also said it was while on a 96 wouldnt this have been during the time of the party? [/*]

Probably 96 for Thanksgiving or Vetrans Day 96.

[Babes]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


And some of those brooches and Chanel suits wouldn't hurt.

:D [/*]

LOL i think he would like to host a grand crow feast for us . Geesh this will be the biggest eating crow feast ever IMO.

[Ionmhainn]

Originally posted by henry


i've been thinking the same thing and the only other thing i can add to what's been posted . . . maybe he was also reading the military blogs and knew that he would be one hated dude in a military jail. jmo [/*]

Thanks for the reply, henry (also strick and alter ego).

Yes, that could be it...although I don't think, if convicted, that his crime would make him real popular anywhere. I don't know anything about the condtions in military prisons vs. civilian.

I think I'm glad it will be civilian...we'll probably get more details that way!
jmo

[Kim]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


IMO, the knife was used to make sure she was dead.

Quite the contrast in injuries/weapons. Almost like it wasn't the same person who did both..... [/*]
I also have a theory.1 person did the murder the person "covering" for that person had an emotional attachment and couldn't bring themselves to embed the blade deep enough.OR they used something that would not penetrate that deep:shrug:

[hinman]

Has any news came out today on whether Laurean was going to fight extradition?

[henry]

Originally posted by Kim
also
http://lejeuneunderground.com/topic.jsp?topicId=11113982[/url]

also thought this post was interesting
corasmommie --- 80 days ago - quote
my husband works right next to where ceasar and lauderbach worked. he found out that laurean had apparently buried her and then dug her up, tore that section of his fence down covered her up with it, and then threw a few parties over the next few days burning the fence. he wasnt sure if it was true or not but its what he heard. you would think someone wouldve noticed something if it is true

i think she knew and was involved as well.
link> http://lejeuneunderground.com/topic.jsp?topicId=11113940 [/*]

do you have any idea what hunter's mommy is talking about re the daughter :confused:

[daniel green]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


So are you saying I could go and report a crime such as my husband burying a body behind my house using his note and turn it over to LE. Then LE issue charges that are based partly on what I gave them, and I can retract that???:confused:

I can't buy that one, but if you show me something that says they handle it like that in NC, I will certainly concede I was wrong. It just makes no sense given that was used to alert LE to a crime IMHO.

ALL JMO. :seeya: [/*]

You're not wrong, CK.

[Babes]

Originally posted by hinman
It probably wasn't in there.

I would love to know what was though. [/*]

They will be the most stupid criminal if it is still there. But who knows someone is keeping it for "Proof" :(

[Kim]

Originally posted by henry


do you have any idea what hunter's mommy is talking about re the daughter :confused: [/*]
I think she misinterpreted the news reports that CSL daughter was staying at CSL parents house .mo

[strick10]

Originally posted by Babes
so where is this famous knife? Does Maria usually carry a knife with her? Or this is just a kitchen knife inside the house?

Amazing that someone who is so mad and doesnt live there went directly to the kitchen just to get a knife and killed herself :( [/*]

I don't see Maria going into the kitchen to get a knife either Babes.

[Kim]

Originally posted by Babes


They will be the most stupid criminal if it is still there. But who knows someone is keeping it for "Proof" :( [/*]
on the other hand if its a military issue knife.they must have them if asked.If it were laying out in public when found maybe it can be traced? Dont know just sayin.........

[henry]

Originally posted by Ionmhainn


Thanks for the reply, henry (also strick and alter ego).

Yes, that could be it...although I don't think, if convicted, that his crime would make him real popular anywhere. I don't know anything about the condtions in military prisons vs. civilian.

I think I'm glad it will be civilian...we'll probably get more details that way!
jmo [/*]

when i look at something like this . . . i also factor in the the other inmates . . . in civilian he'd probably be segregated, but in military he'd be watching his back (and other parts) much more frequently, imo.

edit: 'cause of all i've heard here & read about honor, integrity, etc. imo again!

[Janz]

Originally posted by strick10


I don't see Maria going into the kitchen to get a knife either Babes. [/*]

I think Maria was attempting to escape that house, when she was struck with the Crowbar and the knife wound was postmortem, just as the ME said.

[Babes]

Hmmm Ok Maria bought a ticket to El Paso.... How do we know that Cesar didnt buy one too to go with Maria to El Paso? Is it possible that the ticket he used on January 11 was the ticket he could possibly purchase last December 14 ?

[AlohaRainbow]

Originally posted by Devotion


I AGREE!
Below are a few possibilities I've thought of:
*snip*
Strangely, we are told that both CL's women wanted to kill themselves.

Maria was raised very Religious and I do not believe she would have considered suicide that far along in her pregnancy regardless of what the alleged argument was over......jmo [/*]

wow! i hadn't connected the dots before, but really good point devotion re being told that both maria and xtina wanted to commit suicide. makes one wonder if it was xtina (who "used" suicide subsequently in her diary) who initially came up with the maria-suicide scenario... things that make you go hmmmmmmmm :)

[Kim]

also all marines are trianed to kill.they know how deep to cut.If no arteries were severed I dont think that was by accident or mistake.
If it were planned, a stage( so to speak) of a broken neck and fall could have easily been done in my opinion at a different location.
or any other scenes that woudnt have raised suspition.again my opinion (and that of most Marines LOL)

[strick10]

Originally posted by damienstoy


But he would also get time in Leavenworth, wouldn't he? And potentially a long period of time before he was released and discharged?

If so, additional charges could prolong his imprisonment, couldn't they? [/*]

Not for desertion I don't believe. If he got jail time for that he'd most likely be locked up in the brig. at Lejeune for however long then dishonorably dischared. If you're talking about the murder well then he'd have to go to a federal prison probably for life but since the MC is letting the local LE try the murder charge the MC can't send him to Leavenworth. IMO the Marines are going to charge him w/ desertion and whatnot and discharge him immediately so the LE can have him to do what they need to do.

[Kim]

welp I'm off for a sleep study so I am out good luck on resolving some of the burning questions! :seeya:

[Janz]

Originally posted by strick10


Not for desertion I don't believe. If he got jail time for that he'd most likely be locked up in the brig. at Lejeune for however long then dishonorably dischared. If you're talking about the murder well then he'd have to go to a federal prison probably for life but since the MC is letting the local LE try the murder charge the MC can't send him to Leavenworth. IMO the Marines are going to charge him w/ desertion and whatnot and discharge him immediately so the LE can have him to do what they need to do. [/*]

...and a very good thing for the Marines to do, quickly charge him with desertion and discharge that 'disgrace to the Marines'.

[Janz]

Originally posted by Kim
welp I'm off for a sleep study so I am out good luck on resolving some of the burning questions! :seeya: [/*]

Good night, Kim. :seeya:

[AlohaRainbow]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


I agree that is all possible, but I keep going back to a scorned woman doing that. JMO tho.

IT would fit either way tho from my POV and I hope you are feeling better today Martha. Good wishes are always sent your way. :rose:

JMO [/*]
i wonder what a profiler, such as dayle hinman (trutv's "body of evidence" ) would have to say about who the perp might be given the "body of evidence" in this case..

[henry]

Originally posted by Kim
welp I'm off for a sleep study so I am out good luck on resolving some of the burning questions! :seeya: [/*]

gnite . . . taxes are also calling me . . . thanks for coming back!

[strick10]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


IMO, the knife was used to make sure she was dead.

Quite the contrast in injuries/weapons. Almost like it wasn't the same person who did both..... [/*]

Good thought cryme.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by Babes


LOL i think he would like to host a grand crow feast for us . Geesh this will be the biggest eating crow feast ever IMO. [/*]

Or he could be the recipient of a crow catering!

:D

[strick10]

Originally posted by henry


when i look at something like this . . . i also factor in the the other inmates . . . in civilian he'd probably be segregated, but in military he'd be watching his back (and other parts) much more frequently, imo.

edit: 'cause of all i've heard here & read about honor, integrity, etc. imo again! [/*]

Yup.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by AlohaRainbow

i wonder what a profiler, such as dayle hinman (trutv's "body of evidence" ) would have to say about who the perp might be given the "body of evidence" in this case.. [/*]

I do recall Pat Brown (when the story first broke) saying that she thought it was an affair gone wrong and she said she wouldn't discount the wife as a suspect.

Don't have a link, she was on one of the news stations (more than likely Fox).

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by Babes
Hmmm Ok Maria bought a ticket to El Paso.... How do we know that Cesar didnt buy one too to go with Maria to El Paso? Is it possible that the ticket he used on January 11 was the ticket he could possibly purchase last December 14 ? [/*]

Some of us theorized that early on. We don't know the date Cesar bought his ticket or if he already had one. But, if reports are accurate that he boarded the bus at an unmanned station, then where did he get the ticket?

[strick10]

Originally posted by Janz


...and a very good thing for the Marines to do, quickly charge him with desertion and discharge that 'disgrace to the Marines'. [/*]

Discharge him quickly so as not to interfere with the trial by holding him IMO. They should let him stay at the Lejeune brig for 24 hrs. IMO just for giggles and then turn him over to the local LE. "Disgrace to the Marine Corps" is an understatement. He took one of ours and ran like a coward.

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


Lonetraveler, the DA is not completely sure of anything if you watch this video about 35 seconds in IMO.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/video/2724205/


The fat lady isn't even in the house from what I got. ;) JMO. [/*]

The DA MAY be completely sure of things but is just not showing his hand yet. ;)

[Janz]

Originally posted by strick10


Discharge him quickly so as not to interfere with the trial by holding him IMO. They should let him stay at the Lejeune brig for 24 hrs. IMO just for giggles and then turn him over to the local LE. "Disgrace to the Marine Corps" is an understatement. He took one of ours and ran like a coward. [/*]

Exactly strick, In a perfect world the Marines should have been the ones to hunt him down!! I personally can`t wait to see him on American soil in chains!

Thank you so much for your efforts with the "intregrity" question of last night.