Monday April 14, 2008 Daily Discussion [Archive] - Page 2

SavannahStar

04-14-2008, 08:25 PM

Originally posted by Devotion

I agree ......The Lejeune underground site is very interesting to read.
I just finished reading a real shocker on there!
On the bottom on page 13,
of that site they talk about the following just being hear say,
that Maria and Ceasar were at the Sunset Inn together for at least 3 days the week before she was murdered.
The bloger does not know if there is any truth in it but, it supposely it came from someone that works there though.
She said that they did not check in using their names but they were on security cameras there.
She also said that the OCSD does have the video......jmo [/*]

Was that posted early on? I think that is the same thing we discussed some time ago.

It wouldn't surprise me, but I take what I read on there mostly with a grain of salt. Interesting, though, that OCSD supposedly has the video, I can't remember reading that.

Janz

04-14-2008, 08:31 PM

Originally posted by SavannahStar

:shrug:

Let's dissect the DA now. :o [/*]

No, just curious if has tried many murder cases.

strick10

04-14-2008, 08:33 PM

Originally posted by SavannahStar

Was that posted early on? I think that is the same thing we discussed some time ago.

It wouldn't surprise me, but I take what I read on there mostly with a grain of salt. Interesting, though, that OCSD supposedly has the video, I can't remember reading that. [/*]

Yes, with a grain of salt. No offense meant to the LU posters but I feel certain posts are mostly rumors.

SavannahStar

04-14-2008, 08:39 PM

Originally posted by Janz

No, just curious if has tried many murder cases. [/*]

I dunno but we have so many terrific posters on here I'm sure one at least would take up the research assignment! :)

alter ego

04-14-2008, 08:39 PM

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES

So are you saying I could go and report a crime such as my husband burying a body behind my house using his note and turn it over to LE. Then LE issue charges that are based partly on what I gave them, and I can retract that???:confused:

I can't buy that one, but if you show me something that says they handle it like that in NC, I will certainly concede I was wrong. It just makes no sense given that was used to alert LE to a crime IMHO.

ALL JMO. :seeya: [/*]Anyone can recant :shrug:

Kat Pellicano testified against her husband at a GJ and then invoked spousal privilege and the DA could not force her to testify against her husband.

Also,

A witness-spouse may not voluntarily testify regarding confidential communications over the objection of the defendant-spouse who asserts the privilege. State v. Holmes, 330 N.C. 826, 412 S.E.2d 660 (1992)
http://peo7.com/peo/caselawsDetail50660/Page10.htm

Janz

04-14-2008, 08:41 PM

Originally posted by SavannahStar

I dunno but we have so many terrific posters on here I'm sure one at least would take up the research assignment! :) [/*]

Like I said I was just curious about his record with murder cases. I am not familiar with NC.

Howiefan

04-14-2008, 08:46 PM

Originally posted by SavannahStar

:shrug:

Let's dissect the DA now. :o [/*]
lol:beer:

alter ego

04-14-2008, 08:49 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

IMO, the knife was used to make sure she was dead.

Quite the contrast in injuries/weapons. Almost like it wasn't the same person who did both..... [/*]IMO, the knife was used to try to substantiate the suicide story and also to explain all the blood.

Then the body was burned to try to hide the massive head wound.

sunstar

04-14-2008, 08:56 PM

Originally posted by Devotion

I hope I don't get anyone upset because of the following thought:
Has this crossed anyone's mind other than mine?

What IF M and C were "caught" in bed, and a struggle took place as M. tried to leave ??....

this being the reason she was found with nothing on from the waist down??? jmo [/*]
In her late stage of pregnancy, I don't know about this scenario ~ but ~ I do wonder what happened to her clothing. Since she was laying on her side, I can't see it being completely charred off while clothing on the upper part of her body remained. :shrug:

alter ego

04-14-2008, 08:57 PM

Originally posted by SavannahStar

:shrug:

Let's dissect the DA now. :o [/*]Well, the DA dropped the ball in the Winkler case......and the Simpson case.....and got disbarred in the Duke LAX players case....

sunstar

04-14-2008, 09:04 PM

Originally posted by hinman
For some reason the use of the knife initially seems more premeditated to me then rage.

Rage would be the heat of the moment, pick up the closes thing near. [/*]
That's a good point, hinman. Hmmmm ~ back to thinking it out again!

strick10

04-14-2008, 09:05 PM

Originally posted by sunstar

In her late stage of pregnancy, I don't know about this scenario ~ but ~ I do wonder what happened to her clothing. Since she was laying on her side, I can't see it being completely charred off while clothing on the upper part of her body remained. :shrug: [/*]

Let's say CAL didn't bury Maria on the 14th and left her in the garage for the night and attempted to clean up somewhat. The next part may be morbid to some: Now leaving her in the garage for one night may not produce the odor of death so could it be possible that her lower clothing was removed and disposed of because her body had a BM at death and that would produce a smell that may have traveled? Just askin' . . .

SavannahStar

04-14-2008, 09:08 PM

Originally posted by alter ego
Well, the DA dropped the ball in the Winkler case......and the Simpson case.....and got disbarred in the Duke LAX players case.... [/*]

OH heck yeh it's been known to happen. But we don't know anything about this DA yet, much. I just think any of this early on wondering about his competency might just be a result of being angry over Christina not being charged. All IMO of course.

Lynn Gweeny

04-14-2008, 09:09 PM

Internet Activity Helped Investigators Track Laurean (Includes video report)

http://www.wnct.com/midatlantic/nct/news/local_news.apx.-content-articles-NCT-2008-04-14-0059.html

SavannahStar

04-14-2008, 09:09 PM

sunstar

04-14-2008, 09:15 PM

Originally posted by Devotion

I AGREE!
Below are a few possibilities I've thought of:

Possibly someone grabbing a knife as they struggled in the dining/ kitchen area.
Maria could have grabbed the knife in self defense, and it was taken away from her by the attacker and that person cut her throat as she turned to run toward the garage.
Or the attacker could have threatened M. with the knife before the fight began.

M. was probably hit from behind, while trying to escape out the garage, back door...
or she could have fallen over some of that junk in the garage and then hit from behind while trying to leave.

Another question I have is: Who did the knife belong to?
I'd like to know what was said in that argument that was so terrible that it made M. want to kill herself.?
IF there was an argument....and not a jealous wife chasing her with a knife.

Strangely, we are told that both CL's women wanted to kill themselves.

Maria was raised very Religious and I do not believe she would have considered suicide that far along in her pregnancy regardless of what the alleged argument was over......jmo [/*]
I totally missed this post earlier and saw part of it quoted and wanted to respond myself. :) I don't think this is too far-fetched at all and you might have given an answer as to how the knife fits into the picture, along with the part of CL's note that says Maria slit her throat. Suicide ideations by both Maria and Mrs. CL? I think we might have some idea where that part of the note came from now! BTW, did we ever find out if that note CL left was handwritten?

sunstar

04-14-2008, 09:17 PM

Originally posted by Babes
Hmmm Ok Maria bought a ticket to El Paso.... How do we know that Cesar didnt buy one too to go with Maria to El Paso? Is it possible that the ticket he used on January 11 was the ticket he could possibly purchase last December 14 ? [/*]
He supposedly said he was at the bus station with Maria, but was he ever inside?

Janz

04-14-2008, 09:17 PM

Originally posted by SavannahStar

OH heck yeh it's been known to happen. But we don't know anything about this DA yet, much. I just think any of this early on wondering about his competency might just be a result of being angry over Christina not being charged. All IMO of course. [/*]

I have no reason to be angry with the DA or LE. Even though IMO Christina COULD have had something to do with either the crime/cover up. According to DA Hudson, they are continuing to investigate.

sunstar

04-14-2008, 09:18 PM

Originally posted by AlohaRainbow

i wonder what a profiler, such as dayle hinman (trutv's "body of evidence" ) would have to say about who the perp might be given the "body of evidence" in this case.. [/*]
Oh, I'd love to have her go through the house and the "proof" and hear her thoughts on it. :)

strick10

04-14-2008, 09:21 PM

Thanks for the link Lynn Gweeny.

So I guess the Mexican authorities were in that area looking for CAL and not like it was earlier reported that they were working on a different case.

alter ego

04-14-2008, 09:23 PM

Originally posted by strick10

Let's say CAL didn't bury Maria on the 14th and left her in the garage for the night and attempted to clean up somewhat. The next part may be morbid to some: Now leaving her in the garage for one night may not produce the odor of death so could it be possible that her lower clothing was removed and disposed of because her body had a BM at death and that would produce a smell that may have traveled? Just askin' . . . [/*]A clip of Greta I saw had her nosing around under the back deck intimating the body was there for a period of time wrapped up in the comforter....

:shrug:

strick10

04-14-2008, 09:27 PM

Originally posted by alter ego
A clip of Greta I saw had her nosing around under the back deck intimating the body was there for a period of time wrapped up in the comforter....

:shrug: [/*]

Hmmm could be she was there but awfully risky if critters come around or if the dog needed to use the potty, unless that's when they started taking/tying him out front. I think the area under the pool would show that it had been disturbed if the LE had looked in that area. There were tire marks or some marks but other than that it didn't look like there was alot of activity.

sunstar

04-14-2008, 09:35 PM

Originally posted by strick10

Let's say CAL didn't bury Maria on the 14th and left her in the garage for the night and attempted to clean up somewhat. The next part may be morbid to some: Now leaving her in the garage for one night may not produce the odor of death so could it be possible that her lower clothing was removed and disposed of because her body had a BM at death and that would produce a smell that may have traveled? Just askin' . . . [/*]
I actually think she was left in the garage until he got a shovel to start digging the yard. Putting her out in the back yard under the pool (like I think Greta may have suggested?) would've attracted buzzards, flies, etc., in my opinion. If what you suggest did happen regarding her clothes, what happened to them? Who would handle them and where were they disposed of? Good thoughts, but just more questions!

Miss Behavin

04-14-2008, 09:36 PM

strick10

04-14-2008, 09:44 PM

Originally posted by sunstar

I actually think she was left in the garage until he got a shovel to start digging the yard. Putting her out in the back yard under the pool (like I think Greta may have suggested?) would've attracted buzzards, flies, etc., in my opinion. If what you suggest did happen regarding her clothes, what happened to them? Who would handle them and where were they disposed of? Good thoughts, but just more questions! [/*]
Probably went into a plastic bag and into the trash, by whom I dunno. I don't find it off that that the killer who had the guts to kill her, cut her didn't have the nerve to remove soiled clothes.

sunstar

04-14-2008, 09:46 PM

Originally posted by strick10

Probably went into a plastic bag and into the trash, by whom I dunno. I don't find it off that that the killer who had the guts to kill her, cut her didn't have the nerve to remove soiled clothes. [/*]
Maybe the person who dealt the fatal blow didn't remove them but the person who "loved her" did and wrapped her in the comforter? :chicken:

SavannahStar

04-14-2008, 09:49 PM

Originally posted by Janz

I have no reason to be angry with the DA or LE. Even though IMO Christina COULD have had something to do with either the crime/cover up. According to DA Hudson, they are continuing to investigate. [/*]

Of course they are continuing to investigate.

sunstar

04-14-2008, 09:52 PM

Originally posted by AnnieBean

yes, after a flurry of postings musing over the 'fact' that they were generated on and printed out by their own PC, it was shown in a link a LE person telling the media about the notes where they are described as handwritten.... [/*]
Thanks :) so at least we know he did that part.

strick10

04-14-2008, 09:53 PM

http://onslowcrime.encblogs.com/?p=45#comments

Okay on the Off the Cuff page Lindell states that there is something in the incident that many may have over looked that may be extremly important. I'm taking the commentors post of 13 Apr 08 @ 1056 as that pages 4 and 5 show what many may have over looked. I don't see it. Has this been discussed here already? What am I not seeing.

sunstar

04-14-2008, 10:04 PM

Originally posted by strick10
http://onslowcrime.encblogs.com/?p=45#comments

Okay on the Off the Cuff page Lindell states that there is something in the incident that many may have over looked that may be extremly important. I'm taking the commentors post of 13 Apr 08 @ 1056 as that pages 4 and 5 show what many may have over looked. I don't see it. Has this been discussed here already? What am I not seeing. [/*]
I haven't quite figured it out yet, but I'm reading through the posts from that one forward to the latest. Some of them are very interesting, especially in reference to Maria's plans to keep the baby or give him up for adoption and possibly trying to get away from everyone (including Mary) with CL's help. :read:

GentleBreeze

04-14-2008, 10:05 PM

Originally posted by strick10

Hmmm could be she was there but awfully risky if critters come around or if the dog needed to use the potty, unless that's when they started taking/tying him out front. I think the area under the pool would show that it had been disturbed if the LE had looked in that area. There were tire marks or some marks but other than that it didn't look like there was alot of activity. [/*]

I don't think she was put outside anywhere. I think her car was in the garage that night and her body was most likely in the trunk. Now if they both were in on it they could have kept the garage doors shut and just left her body in the garage until he could bury her.

And you are right LE would be able to tell if any areas in the yard had been recently disturbed.

imoo

martha

04-14-2008, 10:09 PM

Originally posted by strick10
http://onslowcrime.encblogs.com/?p=45#comments

Okay on the Off the Cuff page Lindell states that there is something in the incident that many may have over looked that may be extremly important. I'm taking the commentors post of 13 Apr 08 @ 1056 as that pages 4 and 5 show what many may have over looked. I don't see it. Has this been discussed here already? What am I not seeing. [/*] i read a little on her post but did not get it. i am so glad she told the ones that or checking her spelling and gram. off. if that is all someone is on these boards to do they need to find something elce to do jmho:rose:

strick10

04-14-2008, 10:10 PM

Originally posted by sunstar

I haven't quite figured it out yet, but I'm reading through the posts from that one forward to the latest. Some of them are very interesting, especially in reference to Maria's plans to keep the baby or give him up for adoption and possibly trying to get away from everyone (including Mary) with CL's help. :read: [/*]

I'm just not seeing it. Grrr....

martha

04-14-2008, 10:11 PM

My daughter works at a hospital and the part about her cloths being soiled could be possiable. i think that happens when someone dies:rose:

GentleBreeze

04-14-2008, 10:12 PM

Originally posted by strick10
http://onslowcrime.encblogs.com/?p=45#comments

Okay on the Off the Cuff page Lindell states that there is something in the incident that many may have over looked that may be extremely important. I'm taking the commentors post of 13 Apr 08 @ 1056 as that pages 4 and 5 show what many may have over looked. I don't see it. Has this been discussed here already? What am I not seeing. [/*]

I don't understand it either. Something about a superior officer and remember that is the way it was reported when this first came out. They are thinking it wasn't Laurean they were talking about.

Did she make another incident report about a superior officer that we aren't privy to I wonder?:confused:

imoo

sunstar

04-14-2008, 10:12 PM

strick10 ~ I think I got it!

Go to Apr. 13 @ 8:52pm ~ it's about CL's rank and another officer who is superior to Maria, and read forward.
:read:

strick10

04-14-2008, 10:16 PM

Originally posted by martha
i read a little on her post but did not get it. i am so glad she told the ones that or checking her spelling and gram. off. if that is all someone is on these boards to do they need to find something elce to do jmho:rose: [/*]

Very fustrating martha that I don't see it. I see what may be a typo where the they state that Maria Lauterbach agreed to be available for further questioning and provided her contact info. And "due to the information provided by Maria Lauterbach JMoore made contact w/ NCIS.....all on page 4.
http://www.jdnews.com/attachments/1200068360-lauterbachinvestigationdocumnetsrevised.pdf

strick10

04-14-2008, 10:17 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

I don't think she was put outside anywhere. I think her car was in the garage that night and her body was most likely in the trunk. Now if they both were in on it they could have kept the garage doors shut and just left her body in the garage until he could bury her.

And you are right LE would be able to tell if any areas in the yard had been recently disturbed.

imoo [/*]

In her car in the garage or in the garage where she died...I'm w/ you I don't think she was left outside on that night.

strick10

04-14-2008, 10:18 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

I don't understand it either. Something about a superior officer and remember that is the way it was reported when this first came out. They are thinking it wasn't Laurean they were talking about.

Did she make another incident report about a superior officer that we aren't privy to I wonder?:confused:

imoo [/*]

Well, maybe not. The press called CAL a superior officer from early on before they learned who he was.

GentleBreeze

04-14-2008, 10:18 PM

Originally posted by martha
i read a little on her post but did not get it. i am so glad she told the ones that or checking her spelling and gram. off. if that is all someone is on these boards to do they need to find something elce to do jmho:rose: [/*]

How true, Martha!

Who cares? I sure don't and never have a problem understanding what anyone is trying to say. I have always thought that is so snooty and arrogant.

LOL Lindell Kay is a man, Martha. He is a crime reporter with Jacksonville Daily News and he is great imo.

imoo:seeya:

sunstar

04-14-2008, 10:21 PM

Originally posted by strick10

Very fustrating martha that I don't see it. I see what may be a typo where the they state that Maria Lauterbach agreed to be available for further questioning and provided her contact info. And "due to the information provided by Maria Lauterbach JMoore made contact w/ NCIS.....all on page 4.
http://www.jdnews.com/attachments/1200068360-lauterbachinvestigationdocumnetsrevised.pdf [/*]
From the link, page 4, #5: "The anticipated birth of Maria Lauterbach's baby...sexually assaulted by a senior military person."

GentleBreeze

04-14-2008, 10:23 PM

Originally posted by strick10

Well, maybe not. The press called CAL a superior officer from early on before they learned who he was. [/*]

True and so did Mary didn't she? That seemed so odd because Cpls really doesn't have much power or control at all.

I think LK may be thinking there may be another reported incident concerning a real lol superior officer.

Usually when Lindell tells us to look for clues he is on to something. I know others over there want to know if any high ranking officer recently retired early or was discharged.

imoo

strick10

04-14-2008, 10:23 PM

Originally posted by sunstar
strick10 ~ I think I got it!

Go to Apr. 13 @ 8:52pm ~ it's about CL's rank and another officer who is superior to Maria, and read forward.
:read: [/*]
Oh my.....you and GW may be onto something . :shrug: I still don't see it in the incident report on pages 4 and 5 though.

Kel65

04-14-2008, 10:27 PM

Originally posted by strick10

Oh my.....you and GW may be onto something . :shrug: I still don't see it in the incident report on pages 4 and 5 though. [/*]

Page 4 5th line.

martha

04-14-2008, 10:27 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

How true, Martha!

Who cares? I sure don't and never have a problem understanding what anyone is trying to say. I have always thought that is so snooty and arrogant.

LOL Lindell Kay is a man, Martha. He is a crime reporter with Jacksonville Daily News and he is great imo.

imoo:seeya: [/*] oh my goodness here i go again making a big mistake. I did not know who LK was sorry LK forgive me for messing up. i get what people or saying no matter if they or not spelling right or anything elce. just someone being pettie I guess.

GentleBreeze

04-14-2008, 10:28 PM

Originally posted by strick10

Oh my.....you and GW may be onto something . :shrug: I still don't see it in the incident report on pages 4 and 5 though. [/*]

Don't you think it is odd that Maria never gave her mother his name? Why wouldn't that be the first thing she would tell her? If I had been her mother I would have demanded to know his name from the get go.

imoo

nuttintodo

04-14-2008, 10:29 PM

Originally posted by strick10

Oh my.....you and GW may be onto something . :shrug: I still don't see it in the incident report on pages 4 and 5 though. [/*]

Strick, don't use the .pdf number page 4...use the incident/investigative report page 4 (which if you are going by the .pdf page it's page 7).

The pdf page 4 is the probable cause that begins with 'Sargeant Cavenaugh...'.

The incident/investigative report that's in discussion is the that has 'Narr. contd....' in the upper left hand corner.

Hope you can understand this. LOL

strick10

04-14-2008, 10:30 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

True and so did Mary didn't she? That seemed so odd because a Cpls really doesn't have much power or control at all.

I think LK may be thinking there may be another reported incident concerning a real lol superior officer.

Usually when Lindell tells us to look for clues he is on to something. I know others over there want to know if any high ranking officer recently retired early or was discharged.

imoo [/*]
A corporal has very limited power. In fact it takes awhile before those below a Cpl take him seriously after being newly promoted. Now I've always thought there was at least one other person involved in this mess aside from CAL andy maybe CSL. But a commissioned officer? If Lindell is hinting at that then yes Marias career could've been threatened. The MC has said she was facing possible discharge but in their answers to the Congressman they no longer stated that as the infractions she had would not have led to a discharge unless they escalated. So whatever discharge Maria was facing during the rape investigation is directly tied to that investigation.

GentleBreeze

04-14-2008, 10:31 PM

Originally posted by martha
oh my goodness here i go again making a big mistake. I did not know who LK was sorry LK forgive me for messing up. i get what people or saying no matter if they or not spelling right or anything else. just someone being pettie I guess. [/*]

LOL Don't worry about it.

He does have a girl's name for a last name.:D Don't tell him I said that, ok?:D

imoo

strick10

04-14-2008, 10:32 PM

martha

04-14-2008, 10:33 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

Don't you think it is odd that Maria never gave her mother his name? Why wouldn't that be the first thing she would tell her? If I had been her mother I would have demanded to know his name from the get go.

imoo [/*] you can bet my daughter would have told me his name. I can;t understand any mother not knowing the name of a man that raped her daughter. thats just unreal to me :rose:

strick10

04-14-2008, 10:33 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

Strick, don't use the .pdf number page 4...use the incident/investigative report page 4 (which if you are going by the .pdf page it's page 7).

The pdf page 4 is the probable cause that begins with 'Sargeant Cavenaugh...'.

The incident/investigative report that's in discussion is the that has 'Narr. contd....' in the upper left hand corner.

Hope you can understand this. LOL [/*]

I was looking at page 4. Guess I was looking for a super sleuth hint.....:lol: didn't even pay attention to the senior officer portion. Thanks nuttin and Kel65.

martha

04-14-2008, 10:34 PM

My daughter;s name is Sandra Kay

GentleBreeze

04-14-2008, 10:35 PM

Originally posted by strick10

A corporal has very limited power. In fact it takes awhile before those below a Cpl take him seriously after being newly promoted. Now I've always thought there was at least one other person involved in this mess aside from CAL andy maybe CSL. But a commissioned officer? If Lindell is hinting at that then yes Marias career could've been threatened. The MC has said she was facing possible discharge but in their answers to the Congressman they no longer stated that as the infractions she had would not have led to a discharge unless they escalated. So whatever discharge Maria was facing during the rape investigation is directly tied to that investigation. [/*]

I thought they were very guarded when they answered that question which they should be as they are there to protect the investigation.

They said she was not facing discharge for MEDICAL reasons, didn't they?

Wasn't that the question asked?

imoo

MoonFlwr

04-14-2008, 10:35 PM

Originally posted by bkwits

I don't think that I have ever been to an internet cafe (except maybe coffee houses). Does it cost money to use the computers there? I read in one news report that Cesar sometimes worked at the internet cafe. [/*]

Yeah, bkwits, you have to pay for the time spent using the net at an internet cafe.
If you worked at one, who knows, you may receive reduced rates or free access to the net?! :shrug:

nuttintodo

04-14-2008, 10:38 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

Don't you think it is odd that Maria never gave her mother his name? Why wouldn't that be the first thing she would tell her? If I had been her mother I would have demanded to know his name from the get go.

imoo [/*]

One would think so....but I digress on that.

Here's what Mary told the DDN: "She didn't reveal the name of her attacker, only that he was Hispanic, a married man with a child."

http://www.daytondailynews.com/story/content/oh/story/news/local/2008/01/20/ddn012008mariainside.html?cxntlid=inform

Same article in which Mary said Maria told her the attack was on April 10th.

"Maria, when did that happen?" her mother asked.
"April 10."

jmo

strick10

04-14-2008, 10:39 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

I thought they were very guarded when they answered that question which they should be as they are there to protect the investigation.

They said she was not facing discharge for MEDICAL reasons, didn't they?

Wasn't that the question asked?

imoo [/*]

Yes they did say she wasn't facing a medical discharge. Her possible discharge is directly related to the alleged rape case and it had to be really serious. Giving false information would get her in trouble but I doubt it would cause for a discharge. I've known Marines who did worse and received a court martial. A commissioned officer? I don't know what to think. Lindell better explain what he meant.

sunstar

04-14-2008, 10:40 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

True and so did Mary didn't she? That seemed so odd because Cpls really doesn't have much power or control at all.

I think LK may be thinking there may be another reported incident concerning a real lol superior officer.

Usually when Lindell tells us to look for clues he is on to something. I know others over there want to know if any high ranking officer recently retired early or was discharged.

imoo [/*]
And didn't CL say something like he didn't want to be railroaded by the military and convicted without evidence? Why would he say that unless there's something more going on here?

strick10

04-14-2008, 10:44 PM

Originally posted by sunstar

And didn't CL say something like he didn't want to be railroaded by the military and convicted without evidence? Why would he say that unless there's something more going on here? [/*]

Unless the baby wasn't CALs and was maybe a superior officers.....Lindell better explain himself before the speculations run wild......I just don't know what to think.

Kel65

04-14-2008, 10:44 PM

Originally posted by sunstar

And didn't CL say something like he didn't want to be railroaded by the military and convicted without evidence? Why would he say that unless there's something more going on here? [/*]

That would make some sense of the railroad and no evidence comment. Definitely, makes me wonder.
JMO

GentleBreeze

04-14-2008, 10:47 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

One would think so....but I digress on that.

Here's what Mary told the DDN: "She didn't reveal the name of her attacker, only that he was Hispanic, a married man with a child."

http://www.daytondailynews.com/story/content/oh/story/news/local/2008/01/20/ddn012008mariainside.html?cxntlid=inform

Same article in which Mary said Maria told her the attack was on April 10th.

"Maria, when did that happen?" her mother asked.
"April 10."

jmo [/*]

Well hey there! LTNS!

So what do you think Lindell means?

All I can think about this would be more in line with Mary telling Maria she better be telling the truth because it could ruin his career.:chicken: Or whatever she told her.......I have forgotten exactly, lol

imoo

Kel65

04-14-2008, 10:48 PM

Originally posted by strick10

Unless the baby wasn't CALs and was maybe a superior officers.....Lindell better explain himself before the speculations run wild......I just don't know what to think. [/*]

When do you think they will release paternity results? Can you imagine if it turns out that Gabriel isn't his child? I tend to think that Cesar is the father, but wow if he isn't. Cesar's lawyer will have a field day with that . . . JMO

IvySterling

04-14-2008, 10:48 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

Don't you think it is odd that Maria never gave her mother his name? Why wouldn't that be the first thing she would tell her? If I had been her mother I would have demanded to know his name from the get go.

imoo [/*]
I've never believed that Mary didn't know Cesar's name in spite of what she may have said, and I think so did Uncle Peter!

nuttintodo

04-14-2008, 10:49 PM

Originally posted by strick10

Unless the baby wasn't CALs and was maybe a superior officers.....Lindell better explain himself before the speculations run wild......I just don't know what to think. [/*]

Good grief yes! He needs to 'splain himself and rather quickly I might add.

Just the thought makes me queasy.

I know speculation runs wild here but to suggest this, oh my word.

jmoo

GentleBreeze

04-14-2008, 10:49 PM

Originally posted by sunstar

And didn't CL say something like he didn't want to be railroaded by the military and convicted without evidence? Why would he say that unless there's something more going on here? [/*]

He said he knows he is going to be convicted on no evidence but doesn't want the military to try him too.

From what I recall.

imoo

sunstar

04-14-2008, 10:51 PM

yuknomenot

04-14-2008, 10:51 PM

Originally posted by sunstar

Good afternoon :seeya: I'm just dropping by while at work to check and see if anything's new today and wanted to say thanks for posting that quote from Sheriff Brown. I agree it seems he is being cautious with his wording in case something does turn up showing Mrs. CL had some involvement. His choice of word ("possible") and leaving the door open so to speak, is better, imo, than the DA's. [/*]

I felt they left the door wide open. From listening to him in the past, I've learned to pay close attention to how Capt. Sutherland words his statements. During the press conference (sorry, I don't have a link), when he spoke about Christina he said something along the lines of "our office has continued to maintain she's a cooperating witness". I don't have the exact quote, but it seemed his phrasing was not an exoneration of Christina. I haven't had much luck in finding a transcript or a video of Capt. Sutherland's portion of the PC.

And, of course, this is all IMO.

GentleBreeze

04-14-2008, 10:52 PM

Originally posted by IvySterling

I've never believed that Mary didn't know Cesar's name in spite of what she may have said, and I think so did Uncle Peter! [/*]

Then surely she gave him his name when she reported Maria missing on the 12-19, wouldn't you think? Mary sure acted like she didn't know his name. And Hispanic men with a child up there are everywhere on that base.

imoo

strick10

04-14-2008, 10:52 PM

sunstar

04-14-2008, 10:52 PM

martha

04-14-2008, 10:53 PM

Originally posted by IvySterling

I've never believed that Mary didn't know Cesar's name in spite of what she may have said, and I think so did Uncle Peter! [/*] ita i will always believe they knew his name. but if it turns out he is not the baby;s father then then the s will hit the fan.:rose: it will just be awful what will be said about everyone:rose:

MoonFlwr

04-14-2008, 10:53 PM

Originally posted by sunstar

In other words, the "alleged rape" wasn't commited by CL but by a "superior" officer? :eek: [/*]

Well, either that, or she had a relationship with a superior officer.
Her pregnancy has not been proven to be a direct result of the rape that she alleged to have happened, has it?

Kel65

04-14-2008, 10:54 PM

Originally posted by strick10

If I understand it correctly NCIS is wanting CALs DNA now. They have some but want a fresh batch. Yes the defense will have a field day w/ that the only thing wrong w/ this picture is that Maria was killed and buried at the L's house. [/*]

We don't know if he had help. Help sure would make the clean up a lot quicker. JMO.

strick10

04-14-2008, 10:54 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

Good grief yes! He needs to 'splain himself and rather quickly I might add.

Just the thought makes me queasy.

I know speculation runs wild here but to suggest this, oh my word.

jmoo [/*]

I mean I've never personally been involved or seen a Code Red but I believe they do happen. This way too movieish (I know not a word) for me.

MoonFlwr

04-14-2008, 10:54 PM

Originally posted by martha
ita i will always believe they knew his name. but if it turns out he is not the baby;s father then then the s will hit the fan.:rose: it will just be awful what will be said about everyone:rose: [/*]

Let the truth come out.....

nuttintodo

04-14-2008, 10:56 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

Well hey there! LTNS!

So what do you think Lindell means?

All I can think about this would be more in line with Mary telling Maria she better be telling the truth because it could ruin his career.:chicken: Or whatever she told her.......I have forgotten exactly, lol

imoo [/*]

I don't know what to think. When I first read that yesterday I was :eek: .

I certainly hope that Lindell will eventually tell the reader's what he's referring to. We speculate but to imply this (if this is what he is in fact implying) is something else. This will open a whole 'nother can of worms, if it's true.

Whew...

jmoo

Kel65

04-14-2008, 10:56 PM

Originally posted by strick10

I mean I've never personally been involved or seen a Code Red but I believe they do happen. This way too movieish (I know not a word) for me. [/*]

It is far fetched but stranger things have happened. JMO

I wonder if Paramore and Welch are keeping tabs on Lindell's blog?

strick10

04-14-2008, 10:56 PM

Originally posted by sunstar

In other words, the "alleged rape" wasn't commited by CL but by a "superior" officer? :eek: [/*]

I dunno......Lindell better explain exactly what the important info he was looking at that most may have missed. I can see the MC protecting an officer dependent on his rank I suppose but why would the LE do that. Maybe it's just the term of superior officer the news and everyone was using at the begining before they knew it was an NCO.

Lynn Gweeny

04-14-2008, 10:57 PM

Originally posted by yuknomenot

I felt they left the door wide open. From listening to him in the past, I've learned to pay close attention to how Capt. Sutherland words his statements. During the press conference (sorry, I don't have a link), when he spoke about Christina he said something along the lines of "our office has continued to maintain she's a cooperating witness". I don't have the exact quote, but it seemed his phrasing was not an exoneration of Christina. I haven't had much luck in finding a transcript or a video of Capt. Sutherland's portion of the PC.

And, of course, this is all IMO. [/*]

A number of questions have been raised about Christina Laurean, the wife of Cesar Laurean. And our office has continued to repeat the fact that she was a cooperating witness with this investigation.

That status has not changed. Information all throughout this case that we received about activities that were occurring have been reviewed with the district attorney's office. The information was provided to Mr. Hudson's office. And we allowed Mr. Hudson's office to determine appropriate action for information that we have received.

This investigation will continue to go forward, both the homicide investigation and the fugitive investigation. Any information that we receive going forward that changes our view on the persons involved, whether in the fugitive case or on the homicide case, will be reviewed with Mr. Hudson's office. And any determination that he makes about any appropriate charges would be made by his office at that point.

At this time, our office is not drawing any additional warrants in this case. But should the investigation reveal information that we do not have at this time, that's a decision that Mr. Hudson's office would make in the future.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0804/11/cnr.05.html

strick10

04-14-2008, 10:58 PM

Originally posted by Kel65

We don't know if he had help. Help sure would make the clean up a lot quicker. JMO. [/*]

Yes it would. Would've allowed for alot to happen that night if he'd had help.

IvySterling

04-14-2008, 10:59 PM

strick10

04-14-2008, 10:59 PM

Originally posted by MoonFlwr

Well, either that, or she had a relationship with a superior officer.
Her pregnancy has not been proven to be a direct result of the rape that she alleged to have happened, has it? [/*]

No it hasn't. She also stated that the baby was not the result of the rape during one of her interviews w/ NCIS. Doesn't mean that CAL and her didn't have relations in May though.

sunstar

04-14-2008, 10:59 PM

Originally posted by MoonFlwr

Well, either that, or she had a relationship with a superior officer.
Her pregnancy has not been proven to be a direct result of the rape that she alleged to have happened, has it? [/*]
No it hasn't, and a pregnancy test in May was negative, IIRC, but positive the following month.

nuttintodo

04-14-2008, 11:01 PM

Originally posted by Kel65

When do you think they will release paternity results? Can you imagine if it turns out that Gabriel isn't his child? I tend to think that Cesar is the father, but wow if he isn't. Cesar's lawyer will have a field day with that . . . JMO [/*]

NCIS said after Friday's presser they wanted a clean DNA swab so it appears that will be done after he is returned to Onslow County.

I will literally hit the floor with a huge *THUD* if the paternity comes back to someone other than CAL.

I know there's a possibility but what would be his motive to get rid of Maria then?

I do know that hazing happens but I thought since that big stink several years ago about hazing, it had all but disappeared.

jmoo

sunstar

04-14-2008, 11:03 PM

Originally posted by AnnieBean

I find that odd, but the mother/daughter relationship can be an odd duck itself...I would naturally ask my girls "who" they liked, and they willingly shared names, if not whole names then at least first names. maybe Maria thought her parents wouldn't have approved of a man with an obviously 'foreign' name such as cesar? Just thinking...one of my bff's from growing up was raised in strict catholic family... a name like his would NOt have been kosher, for sure!!! [/*]
I know exactly what you're talking about. Cesar may not have been "good enough" for Maria. Maybe that is why she was pressured to give up the baby for adoption? :(

strick10

04-14-2008, 11:04 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

NCIS said after Friday's presser they wanted a clean DNA swab so it appears that will be done after he is returned to Onslow County.

I will literally hit the floor with a huge *THUD* if the paternity comes back to someone other than CAL.

I know there's a possibility but what would be his motive to get rid of Maria then?

I do know that hazing happens but I thought since that big stink several years ago about hazing, it had all but disappeared.

jmoo [/*]

When I left in the early 2000's hazing was non-existent. It probably happened but if it did it was kept quite. I'll hit the floor first nuttin so you'll have something soft to hit and you won't go thud. I don't think the paternity of the baby will have any impact of the murder charge though. Since NCIS is the one after the DNA maybe they haven't stopped their investigation, obviously.

strick10

04-14-2008, 11:07 PM

Wonder if MW5 or caedje have heard of this "superior officer" speculation that is now going around.

marinewife5

04-14-2008, 11:09 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

NCIS said after Friday's presser they wanted a clean DNA swab so it appears that will be done after he is returned to Onslow County.

I will literally hit the floor with a huge *THUD* if the paternity comes back to someone other than CAL.

I know there's a possibility but what would be his motive to get rid of Maria then?

I do know that hazing happens but I thought since that big stink several years ago about hazing, it had all but disappeared.

jmoo [/*]

I do not know if the baby is CL's or not, but I really think the Superior Officer element was just an error on Marys part. She was frantic, and seemed to know very little about Cesar. I still can't figure out the "overlooked" clue, but I'll keep looking. JMO

yuknomenot

04-14-2008, 11:10 PM

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny

A number of questions have been raised about Christina Laurean, the wife of Cesar Laurean. And our office has continued to repeat the fact that she was a cooperating witness with this investigation.

That status has not changed. Information all throughout this case that we received about activities that were occurring have been reviewed with the district attorney's office. The information was provided to Mr. Hudson's office. And we allowed Mr. Hudson's office to determine appropriate action for information that we have received.

This investigation will continue to go forward, both the homicide investigation and the fugitive investigation. Any information that we receive going forward that changes our view on the persons involved, whether in the fugitive case or on the homicide case, will be reviewed with Mr. Hudson's office. And any determination that he makes about any appropriate charges would be made by his office at that point.

At this time, our office is not drawing any additional warrants in this case. But should the investigation reveal information that we do not have at this time, that's a decision that Mr. Hudson's office would make in the future.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0804/11/cnr.05.html [/*]

Thank you, you are a research wonder!
I looked and looked for transcript and video yesterday with no luck.

strick10

04-14-2008, 11:11 PM

peachdaquari

04-14-2008, 11:11 PM

Originally posted by strick10

No it hasn't. She also stated that the baby was not the result of the rape during one of her interviews w/ NCIS. Doesn't mean that CAL and her didn't have relations in May though. [/*] good point!!

sunstar

04-14-2008, 11:12 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

NCIS said after Friday's presser they wanted a clean DNA swab so it appears that will be done after he is returned to Onslow County.

I will literally hit the floor with a huge *THUD* if the paternity comes back to someone other than CAL.

I know there's a possibility but what would be his motive to get rid of Maria then?

I do know that hazing happens but I thought since that big stink several years ago about hazing, it had all but disappeared.

jmoo [/*]
I think the baby was CL's but the alleged rape is more confusing than ever. I'm beginning to see less and less motive for him to want her dead.

gaelicpeas

04-14-2008, 11:16 PM

I wonder if this explains the "mix-up" on when LE said they got his name. Brown said he didn't know Laurean's name until they found the MPO in ML's car, right? And then the MC said ML's alleged attacker's name was given to LE sometime in December.

Also, if Mary knew CL's name, wouldn't she have told Brown on Jan 7 when they appeared on base with the sheriff?

jmo

marinewife5

04-14-2008, 11:16 PM

I think the clue on that blog is more directly connected with the murder case, and her original disappearance. JMO

GentleBreeze

04-14-2008, 11:16 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

NCIS said after Friday's presser they wanted a clean DNA swab so it appears that will be done after he is returned to Onslow County.

I will literally hit the floor with a huge *THUD* if the paternity comes back to someone other than CAL.

I know there's a possibility but what would be his motive to get rid of Maria then?

I do know that hazing happens but I thought since that big stink several years ago about hazing, it had all but disappeared.

jmoo [/*]

I actually thought that was a lame excuse Nuttin! Good grief they could get his DNA out of his own home in numerous ways. They don't have to wait to do the testing imo.

Now what I want to know is the DA stalling knowing when the results are known he will have to turn that over in discovery? I think that might be why.

imo

strick10

04-14-2008, 11:19 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
I wonder if this explains the "mix-up" on when LE said they got his name. Brown said he didn't know Laurean's name until they found the MPO in ML's car, right? And then the MC said ML's alleged attacker's name was given to LE sometime in December.

Also, if Mary knew CL's name, wouldn't she have told Brown on Jan 7 when they appeared on base with the sheriff?

jmo [/*]

I noticed that too. So could that be the missed information of importance?

GentleBreeze

04-14-2008, 11:22 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

I do not know if the baby is CL's or not, but I really think the Superior Officer element was just an error on Marys part. She was frantic, and seemed to know very little about Cesar. I still can't figure out the "overlooked" clue, but I'll keep looking. JMO [/*]

And that is the strangest part of all imo, MW.

What mother just accepts "Hispanic man, married with a child?"

She doesn't ask her his name, rank and serial number?:eek:

And why wouldn't Maria tell her since she called her mother several times a day. Why was he just a mystery man out there somewhere?

It makes no sense imo.

gaelicpeas

04-14-2008, 11:22 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

I actually thought that was a lame excuse Nuttin! Good grief they could get his DNA out of his own home in numerous ways. They don't have to wait to do the testing imo.

Now what I want to know is the DA stalling knowing when the results are known he will have to turn that over in discovery? I think that might be why.

imo [/*]

I thought delaying the DNA test was odd, too. What if they had never found him??

jmo

strick10

04-14-2008, 11:22 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5
I think the clue on that blog is more directly connected with the murder case, and her original disappearance. JMO [/*]

IA. But what is the possible information that may be important that is located in the incident report that Lindell is talking about. Certainly he can't mean the possible typo of Maria instead of Mary. LE couldn't have possibly gotten Maria contact info on that day.

hinman

04-14-2008, 11:24 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

And that is the strangest part of all imo, MW.

What mother just accepts "Hispanic man, married with a child?"

She doesn't ask her his name, rank and serial number?:eek:

And why wouldn't Maria tell her since she called her mother several times a day. Why was he just a mystery man out there somewhere?

It makes no sense imo. [/*]I wonder if Maria told her she did not know his name or if Maria did tell Mary the name but Mary does not remember due to the anger.

She could of asked do you know this guys name and Maria simply said he is a married man.

IvySterling

04-14-2008, 11:24 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

I actually thought that was a lame excuse Nuttin! Good grief they could get his DNA out of his own home in numerous ways. They don't have to wait to do the testing imo.

Now what I want to know is the DA stalling knowing when the results are known he will have to turn that over in discovery? I think that might be why.

imo [/*]
I've always thought when they got the SW for the Laurean home they also got Cesar's DNA from the home.

strick10

04-14-2008, 11:25 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

I actually thought that was a lame excuse Nuttin! Good grief they could get his DNA out of his own home in numerous ways. They don't have to wait to do the testing imo.

Now what I want to know is the DA stalling knowing when the results are known he will have to turn that over in discovery? I think that might be why.

imo [/*]

If IRRC NCIS does have CALs DNA probably given to them from by the LE. They want a clean sample, don't know why though. This tells me that the military autopsy was able to determine the babies DNA. Why would NCIS still need DNA if the rape case is completed......

hinman

04-14-2008, 11:25 PM

when he says it was 2 weeks of her anticipated delivery date. Is that correct.

GentleBreeze

04-14-2008, 11:25 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

I thought delaying the DNA test was odd, too. What if they had never found him??

jmo [/*]

Exactly. They have wasted three months.

This could have been done and completed by now.

imoo

strick10

04-14-2008, 11:27 PM

Originally posted by hinman
when he says it was 2 weeks of her anticipated delivery date. Is that correct. [/*]

I dunno, her delivery date was another piece of information that kept changing.

strick10

04-14-2008, 11:28 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

Exactly. They have wasted three months.

This could have been done and completed by now.

imoo [/*]

If in fact NCIS has had CALs DNA this does not sit right w/ me.

CANDYKISSES

04-14-2008, 11:28 PM

Originally posted by hinman
when he says it was 2 weeks of her anticipated delivery date. Is that correct. [/*]

The next page says February 14 due date confirmation so WHO KNOWS?

I think this documentation should never have left the hands of OCSD. We are seeing error after error imo and I believe that's what the superior officer is too.

JMO tho and I know everyone involved in that process knows better as they live in and coexist with the military at CLJ.

ALL JMO.:(

gaelicpeas

04-14-2008, 11:29 PM

Originally posted by IvySterling

I've always thought when they got the SW for the Laurean home they also got Cesar's DNA from the home. [/*]

The military has his dna on file. And I remember somebody put a link here that says it can be accessed for a criminal investigation. So why wait for a "fresh" sample?

jmo

sunstar

04-14-2008, 11:29 PM

Originally posted by hinman
when he says it was 2 weeks of her anticipated delivery date. Is that correct. [/*]
Her baby was due mid-January if she was 8 mo. pregnant when she was killed. Other dates have been mid-February. :shrug:

GentleBreeze

04-14-2008, 11:29 PM

Originally posted by strick10

If IRRC NCIS does have CALs DNA probably given to them from by the LE. They want a clean sample, don't know why though. This tells me that the military autopsy was able to determine the babies DNA. Why would NCIS still need DNA if the rape case is completed...... [/*]

I think the rape case is over with imo tho.

They know they will need to identify that Gabriel was his child. That will be brought up in court I am sure and NCIS is assisting in the murder investigation they said.

imoo

strick10

04-14-2008, 11:30 PM

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES

The next page says February 14 due date confirmation so WHO KNOWS?

I think this documentation should never have left the hands of OCSD. We are seeing error after error imo and I believe that's what the superior officer is too.

JMO tho and I know everyone involved in that process knows better as they live in and coexist with the military at CLJ.

ALL JMO.:( [/*]

IA Candykisses. Way too many errors. But why would Lindell even point the "everyone probably missed this" issue.

marinewife5

04-14-2008, 11:30 PM

Originally posted by IvySterling

I've always thought when they got the SW for the Laurean home they also got Cesar's DNA from the home. [/*]

PERHAPS, they already have results from another sample and want to double check with a fresh sample. I know very little about dna. JMO

strick10

04-14-2008, 11:31 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

I think the rape case is over with imo tho.

They know they will need to identify that Gabriel was his child. That will be brought up in court I am sure and NCIS is assisting in the murder investigation they said.

imoo [/*]

ID the baby as his so that they have a motive? And what if it isn't.

IvySterling

04-14-2008, 11:31 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

Exactly. They have wasted three months.

This could have been done and completed by now.

imoo [/*]
It may have GB and they've been keeping it under wraps :shrug:

GentleBreeze

04-14-2008, 11:31 PM

Originally posted by sunstar

Her baby was due mid-January, IIRC. :) [/*]

But the Doctor had recalculated her due date and had an inception date of May ? iirc.

Making the due date February 14th I think.

imoo

strick10

04-14-2008, 11:32 PM

Originally posted by sunstar

Her baby was due mid-January if she was 8 mo. pregnant when she was killed. Other dates have been mid-February. :shrug: [/*]

I'm going w/ the mid Feb due date as that date was issued by her doc.

strick10

04-14-2008, 11:33 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

PERHAPS, they already have results from another sample and want to double check with a fresh sample. I know very little about dna. JMO [/*]

Could be.......

GentleBreeze

04-14-2008, 11:33 PM

Originally posted by IvySterling

It may have GB and they've been keeping it under wraps :shrug: [/*]

Possible....... (as SB has a tendency to say :D )

imoo:seeya:

hinman

04-14-2008, 11:33 PM

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES

The next page says February 14 due date confirmation so WHO KNOWS?

I think this documentation should never have left the hands of OCSD. We are seeing error after error imo and I believe that's what the superior officer is too.

JMO tho and I know everyone involved in that process knows better as they live in and coexist with the military at CLJ.

ALL JMO.:( [/*]They spelled sympathy wrong. Who ever typed this up was not concerrned with spelling.

strick10

04-14-2008, 11:34 PM

Originally posted by hinman
They spelled sympathy wrong. Who ever typed this up was not concerrned with spelling. [/*]

:lol:

nuttintodo

04-14-2008, 11:35 PM

The whole thing about NCIS waiting for CAL to be returned is something I can't figure out.

I agree with the others that CAL's DNA could have been obtained from many sources in his house.

What if CAL was never captured, turned himself or whatever?

Maybe there is a logical reason, but I am just not seeing it.

jmo

sunstar

04-14-2008, 11:36 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

PERHAPS, they already have results from another sample and want to double check with a fresh sample. I know very little about dna. JMO [/*]
I know they could make a match from a hair sample for example if it was to match his remains, but paternity testing may be more complicated. :shrug:

GentleBreeze

04-14-2008, 11:36 PM

Originally posted by strick10

ID the baby as his so that they have a motive? And what if it isn't. [/*]

That is the chance they take. If it is known it will be known to all parties involved not just one side.

imo

hinman

04-14-2008, 11:37 PM

I have read it and reread it ( even checked for spelling:tongue: )

I see nothing we missed. We have discussed the military every which way, the rape allegation every which way, the search every which way. The pregnancy and so on,hammer

Maybe we didn't miss nothing?

marinewife5

04-14-2008, 11:37 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo
The whole thing about NCIS waiting for CAL to be returned is something I can't figure out.

I agree with the others that CAL's DNA could have been obtained from many sources in his house.

What if CAL was never captured, turned himself or whatever?

Maybe there is a logical reason, but I am just not seeing it.

jmo [/*]

They may have used something from the house and got inconclusive results and wanted a "purer" sample. just a guess, really

sunstar

04-14-2008, 11:37 PM

Originally posted by strick10

I'm going w/ the mid Feb due date as that date was issued by her doc. [/*]
Well that sure would put the date of conception way after the "alleged rape", wouldn't it?

sunstar

04-14-2008, 11:39 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

That is the chance they take. If it is known it will be known to all parties involved not just one side.

imo [/*]
Wouldn't CL have the right to have a test done by another lab too?

marinewife5

04-14-2008, 11:39 PM

Originally posted by hinman
I have read it and reread it ( even checked for spelling:tongue: )

I see nothing we missed. We have discussed the military every which way, the rape allegation every which way, the search every which way. The pregnancy and so on,hammer

Maybe we didn't miss nothing? [/*]

I think that's my problem with the incident report. I do not remember what was discounted by others as we on the board discussed every line of every document. twice.

strick10

04-14-2008, 11:39 PM

Originally posted by hinman
I have read it and reread it ( even checked for spelling:tongue: )

I see nothing we missed. We have discussed the military every which way, the rape allegation every which way, the search every which way. The pregnancy and so on,hammer

Maybe we didn't miss nothing? [/*]

You may be right hinman! The posters on this board are outstanding at catching even the smallest thing that maybe it's already been pointed out and discussed. That's probably why we can't find anything cause it's already been discussed......

hinman

04-14-2008, 11:39 PM

In the report it says NCIS agreed to interview the military personnel involved, could that be something:shrug:

I am really just guessing here.

strick10

04-14-2008, 11:40 PM

Originally posted by sunstar

Well that sure would put the date of conception way after the "alleged rape", wouldn't it? [/*]

Just a tad.

strick10

04-14-2008, 11:41 PM

Originally posted by hinman
In the report it says NCIS agreed to interview the military personnel involved, could that be something:shrug:

I am really just guessing here. [/*]

I dunno hinman..my brain housing group is starting to ache.

GentleBreeze

04-14-2008, 11:42 PM

Originally posted by sunstar

I know they could make a match from a hair sample for example if it was to match his remains, but paternity testing may be more complicated. :shrug: [/*]

Well there ya go. There is your answer. If they could indentify his remains just from a hair sample they sure can have a full DNA profile to see if it matches with him being the father of Gabe.

They seem to be reluctant to do this. I thought surely since this became an issue in the murder case this would have been long done or at least completed a month ago either by the State or the military.

imoo

strick10

04-14-2008, 11:44 PM

Where does the time go? Time for me to turn in. If Lindell doesn't post anything about his "info" by tomorrow I think I'm going to drop him a line, just to ease my mind. Y'all have a great evening! :seeya:

GentleBreeze

04-14-2008, 11:45 PM

Originally posted by sunstar

Wouldn't CL have the right to have a test done by another lab too? [/*]

Yes, his attorney could request that be done.

imoo

hinman

04-14-2008, 11:45 PM

The search warrant is also for an out building if I am reading that right. What the heck is that.

GentleBreeze

04-14-2008, 11:45 PM

Originally posted by strick10
Where does the time go? Time for me to turn in. If Lindell doesn't post anything about his "info" by tomorrow I think I'm going to drop him a line, just to ease my mind. Y'all have a great evening! :seeya: [/*]

:seeya: :patriot:

gaelicpeas

04-14-2008, 11:45 PM

hinman

04-14-2008, 11:46 PM

Originally posted by sherryhefner

hinman, any chance you could give me the link to this document? I went to Lindell's site and tried to open the one there and it never would work for me....TIA

Also, if the baby is not CL's I'll drop my 'puter and maybe my teeth too (and all my teeth are REAL--LOL). Could and I say, COULD it be that the DNA from the home has been tested, and the baby's DNA has been tested and they don't match up? Maybe LE is thinking a fresh DNA sample will test differently?

I'm just wondering because I am reading the book about Paul Bernardo (the Scarborough Rapist and Murderer).....his DNA sample was on file the entire time these crimes were occuring but unfortunately, he was what is called a "non-secreter," which makes simple DNA testing basically ineffective. It comes back like a "blank" (or at least this was my take on it). It took very in-depth testing to match him up with the DNA on the victims. [/*]I am wondering that also. Could be I will fall over.

Here is the link

http://www.jdnews.com/attachments/1200068360-lauterbachinvestigationdocumnetsrevised.pdf

GentleBreeze

04-14-2008, 11:47 PM

Originally posted by hinman
The search warrant is also for an out building if I am reading that right. What the heck is that. [/*]

A shed or a small workshop or storage building, probably on the property of DDs. Isnt this the SW for Maria/DDs address?

imoo

hinman

04-14-2008, 11:47 PM

gaelicpeas

04-14-2008, 11:47 PM

Originally posted by hinman
The search warrant is also for an out building if I am reading that right. What the heck is that. [/*]

maybe a shed or something?

marinewife5

04-14-2008, 11:47 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

Well there ya go. There is your answer. If they could indentify his remains just from a hair sample they sure can have a full DNA profile to see if it matches with him being the father of Gabe.

They seem to be reluctant to do this. I thought surely since this became an issue in the murder case this would have been long done or at least completed a month ago either by the State or the military.

imoo [/*]

wasnt it reported back when the me report came out that the military was doing dna testing and that the results weren't back? or am i crazy? or both?

gaelicpeas

04-14-2008, 11:49 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

wasnt it reported back when the me report came out that the military was doing dna testing and that the results weren't back? or am i crazy? or both? [/*]

that's what I remember, mw5...

marinewife5

04-14-2008, 11:51 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

that's what I remember, mw5... [/*]

hmmmm....and I know you're not crazy.

hinman

04-14-2008, 11:51 PM

The search warrant also says that the search is for evidence of a crime and name of crime is kidnapping.

GentleBreeze

04-14-2008, 11:52 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

wasn't it reported back when the me report came out that the military was doing dna testing and that the results weren't back? or am i crazy? or both? [/*]

That is what I remember. Now I am floored that it hasn't even been touched.:eek:

Strange, strange case.

imoo

marinewife5

04-14-2008, 11:53 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

That is what I remember. Now I am floored that it hasn't even been touched.:eek:

Strange, strange case.

imoo [/*]

are we certain it hasn't been touched?

sunstar

04-14-2008, 11:53 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

A shed or a small workshop or storage building, probably on the property of DDs. Isnt this the SW for Maria/DDs address?

imoo [/*]
Yes, it's for Durham's house. :)

GentleBreeze

04-14-2008, 11:54 PM

Originally posted by hinman
The search warrant also says that the search is for evidence of a crime and name of crime is kidnapping. [/*]

I think Lindell said it is nothing to do with the kidnapping tho but not sure.

imoo

hinman

04-14-2008, 11:54 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

are we certain it hasn't been touched? [/*]I am wondering if they do not want CL or even Christina to know the DNA results?

Why I have no idea.

IvySterling

04-14-2008, 11:57 PM

marinewife5

04-14-2008, 11:57 PM

Originally posted by AnnieBean

we can shoot a satellite into space for better cable TV but can't find a way to speed up the DNA process- FGS build more labs, if such a heinous 'back up' at every lab capable of doing this exists!!! Hire people to work the the labs!! Rich people could build them and they would be zillion-dollar businesses, eh? [/*]

if they said they want a fresh sample, that says to me that the other results were inconclusive. or the dna they were working on was of the baby. i dunno. jmo

gaelicpeas

04-14-2008, 11:58 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

are we certain it hasn't been touched? [/*]

I don't have the link, but Cicarelli confirmed this past weekend that they were waiting for a fresh sample from CL before conducting the dna testing.

jmo as no link

sunstar

04-15-2008, 12:00 AM

Originally posted by AnnieBean

we can shoot a satellite into space for better cable TV but can't find a way to speed up the DNA process- FGS build more labs, if such a heinous 'back up' at every lab capable of doing this exists!!! Hire people to work the the labs!! Rich people could build them and they would be zillion-dollar businesses, eh? [/*]
Once the sample was taken it didn't take any time at all for paternity results with Anna Nicole's baby! :D

Lynn Gweeny

04-15-2008, 12:03 AM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

I don't have the link, but Cicarelli confirmed this past weekend that they were waiting for a fresh sample from CL before conducting the dna testing.

jmo as no link [/*]

Investigators had obtained property that contains Laurean's DNA and were prepared to do a test, but would likely wait now that he is in custody, said Paul Ciccarelli, special agent in charge of the Naval Criminal Investigative Service in North and South Carolina.

However, Ciccarelli said if the extradition process drags on - which could take from 30 days to two years, officials said - NCIS is prepared to serve a search warrant through Mexican authorities to get a DNA sample.

http://www.jdnews.com/news/happen_56005___article.html/coordinated_effort.html

NCIS agent Paul Ciccarelli said Friday authorities wanted to wait for Laurean's capture before performing a paternity test, to ensure it would be based on a clean DNA sample that would stand up to scrutiny in a legal proceeding.

"Obviously, this paternity test is going to impact this investigation," Ciccarelli said.

http://www.wral.com/news/state/story/2723926/

hinman

04-15-2008, 12:03 AM

Lindell says he believes Maria's car was at the savage yard that is at the corner of North Bryan and gum branch in December.

How far away is that from CL's house?

marinewife5

04-15-2008, 12:04 AM

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny

Investigators had obtained property that contains Laurean's DNA and were prepared to do a test, but would likely wait now that he is in custody, said Paul Ciccarelli, special agent in charge of the Naval Criminal Investigative Service in North and South Carolina.

However, Ciccarelli said if the extradition process drags on - which could take from 30 days to two years, officials said - NCIS is prepared to serve a search warrant through Mexican authorities to get a DNA sample.

http://www.jdnews.com/news/happen_56005___article.html/coordinated_effort.html

NCIS agent Paul Ciccarelli said Friday authorities wanted to wait for Laurean's capture before performing a paternity test, to ensure it would be based on a clean DNA sample that would stand up to scrutiny in a legal proceeding.

"Obviously, this paternity test is going to impact this investigation," Ciccarelli said.

http://www.wral.com/news/state/story/2723926/ [/*]

ty lynn. you are the best:rose:

IvySterling

04-15-2008, 12:04 AM

Originally posted by marinewife5

ty lynn. you are the best:rose: [/*]
Ditto that!

nuttintodo

04-15-2008, 12:07 AM

Not if you all are aware of this but the JDNews doesn't have the complete SW/Affidavit up for 1/7/08.

The one from AMW does....

How I can tell the difference is that the one from JDNews doesn't contain page 3....

The link to AMW's is: http://www.amw.com/pdf/lauterbachPDF.pdf

One thing that stands out to me from the AMW one is this: "The message from Vandalia Police Department stated that it had confirmed Ms. Maria Laughterback was AWOL." (On page 3 beginning on the 7th line in the narrative)

Then it goes on to say that JMoore checked NCIC and that no AWOL was found.

Now how and where did the Vandalia Police Department confirm Maria was AWOL?

marinewife5

04-15-2008, 12:08 AM

Originally posted by sherryhefner

The "savage" yard? Ummmm....must be a tough place!
LOL, hinman...just joshing ya. You wouldn't believe the keys I click when I'm typing this late! [/*]
it's that auto repair place i posted about last week. it's maybe a mile to mile and half? i offered to go drive the distance and report it back, but the poster questioning the distance said that wouldn't be necessary. so my offer stands if anyone needs me to.

sunstar

04-15-2008, 12:08 AM

Originally posted by hinman
Lindell says he believes Maria's car was at the savage yard that is at the corner of North Bryan and gum branch in December.

How far away is that from CL's house? [/*]
Gum Branch Rd. sounds familiar. It's where CL's brother was supposed to live according to this link.

http://www.bluelineradio.com/laureancomparison.html

hinman

04-15-2008, 12:09 AM

gaelicpeas

04-15-2008, 12:10 AM

hinman

04-15-2008, 12:11 AM

Originally posted by marinewife5

it's that auto repair place i posted about last week. it's maybe a mile to mile and half? i offered to go drive the distance and report it back, but the poster questioning the distance said that wouldn't be necessary. so my offer stands if anyone needs me to. [/*]Do you know if it is monitored?

You don't have to go Yet? But I am curious about the place. hmmm

marinewife5

04-15-2008, 12:13 AM

Originally posted by sunstar

Gum Branch Rd. sounds familiar. It's where CL's brother was supposed to live according to this link.

http://www.bluelineradio.com/laureancomparison.html [/*]

gum branch is a very very long road.

hinman

04-15-2008, 12:13 AM

There is absolutely no way that CL drove Marias car around to different places and did not have help getting home. Someone knows more then they are telling LE.

hinman

04-15-2008, 12:16 AM

Originally posted by AnnieBean

ya know???????

thats what I am saying...this big huge back up at the lab is carp....jmo...and we hear about it ALL THE TIME, yet Brianna Dennisons killers DNA wasn't delayed, was it??? [/*]Actually I think there was a problem with DNA being back logged in that case.

Could be wrong though, but I thought I had heard them discussing the huge back log and needing money.

I can't spell tonight,

nuttintodo

04-15-2008, 12:16 AM

Originally posted by marinewife5

gum branch is a very very long road. [/*]

Indeed it is...goes all the way from the intersection of Hwy. 17 to Richlands.

Remind me---the 900 block would be closer to 17, correct?

marinewife5

04-15-2008, 12:16 AM

Originally posted by hinman
Do you know if it is monitored?

You don't have to go Yet? But I am curious about the place. hmmm [/*]

no gates, but i may have to go look for cameras. i cannot imagine the car being there too long, as the owner and workers would have noticed a new, undamaged car there. it is not a huge place. i'll get some pics tomorrow

mini-me

04-15-2008, 12:16 AM

Originally posted by hinman
The search warrant is also for an out building if I am reading that right. What the heck is that. [/*]Wasn't there a garden shed or some thing like that on the property.

sunstar

04-15-2008, 12:17 AM

Originally posted by marinewife5

gum branch is a very very long road. [/*]
Oh, thanks :) I just thought it was kind of coincidental.

marinewife5

04-15-2008, 12:17 AM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

Indeed it is...goes all the way from the intersection of Hwy. 17 to Richlands.

Remind me---the 900 block would be closer to 17, correct? [/*]

correct. right before the office part behind burger king on 17

sunstar

04-15-2008, 12:18 AM

sunstar

04-15-2008, 12:20 AM

Originally posted by hinman
There is absolutely no way that CL drove Marias car around to different places and did not have help getting home. Someone knows more then they are telling LE. [/*]
Oh I don't believe he did either and I could guess where that help came from. ;)

hinman

04-15-2008, 12:20 AM

Originally posted by marinewife5

no gates, but i may have to go look for cameras. i cannot imagine the car being there too long, as the owner and workers would have noticed a new, undamaged car there. it is not a huge place. i'll get some pics tomorrow [/*]You are the best.

hinman

04-15-2008, 12:22 AM

Originally posted by AnnieBean

oh! sherrys a senior member now- ******(confetti falling)

I don't know how one human being could have gotten as much accomplished as cesar is supposed to have... [/*]
congrats Sherry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:beer:

nuttintodo

04-15-2008, 12:23 AM

Originally posted by marinewife5

correct. right before the office part behind burger king on 17 [/*]

Ah yes Gum Branch Square.

I just did a clicky thing from Hwy. 17 to Richlands (where Gum Branch comes out to Hw. 24) and it's a little over 14 miles.

sunstar

04-15-2008, 12:23 AM

nuttintodo

04-15-2008, 12:24 AM

Originally posted by sunstar

Oh I don't believe he did either and I could guess where that help came from. ;) [/*]

I'm sure if any taxi services were used, there would be records of those as well.

Someone helped him move her car while he was doing the parking lot shuffle.

jmoo

marinewife5

04-15-2008, 12:25 AM

Originally posted by sunstar

Oh I don't believe he did either and I could guess where that help came from. ;) [/*]

the important thing is that if it was christina, she did it with love for cesar in her heart:o

caejde

04-15-2008, 12:26 AM

Originally posted by strick10

I mean I've never personally been involved or seen a Code Red but I believe they do happen. This way too movieish (I know not a word) for me. [/*]

I know it's probalby already been discussed but I wanted to put my thoughts in there anyway. The whole "Code Red" is from the movie A Few Good Men. Now in the movie there is a substandard Marine and he's a complainer and such. A Code Red is ordered but it wasn't intended to kill him. It was supposed to be a scare tactic I guess....basically straighten up or you're gonna get your a$$ beat for screwing up. Anyway, the Marine was killed and basically they were trying to cover up that they were given an order from the command. Now, if what this person is saying...is that it truly was a senior officer that raped Maria and trying to make Cesar take the fall for it...or a senior officer raped Maria and Cesar was ordered to "take care of her". IMO, I haven't personally witnessed hazing going on and have never heard of "Code Red" until I saw the movie. But hazing does go on but you do get punished. I do know someone in my unit's husband got charged for hazing. I think this is all a little far fetched IMO. But something that was in the investigative report by the detective does list Maria's due date as February 15, 2008...where did he get that from??

sunstar

04-15-2008, 12:31 AM

Originally posted by marinewife5

the important thing is that if it was christina, she did it with love for cesar in her heart:o [/*]
Yes, of course, even though she was torn between that love and anger for his unfaithfulness. :o

nuttintodo

04-15-2008, 12:33 AM

Originally posted by caejde

I know it's probalby already been discussed but I wanted to put my thoughts in there anyway. The whole "Code Red" is from the movie A Few Good Men. Now in the movie there is a substandard Marine and he's a complainer and such. A Code Red is ordered but it wasn't intended to kill him. It was supposed to be a scare tactic I guess....basically straighten up or you're gonna get your a$$ beat for screwing up. Anyway, the Marine was killed and basically they were trying to cover up that they were given an order from the command. Now, if what this person is saying...is that it truly was a senior officer that raped Maria and trying to make Cesar take the fall for it...or a senior officer raped Maria and Cesar was ordered to "take care of her". IMO, I haven't personally witnessed hazing going on and have never heard of "Code Red" until I saw the movie. But hazing does go on but you do get punished. I do know someone in my unit's husband got charged for hazing. I think this is all a little far fetched IMO. But something that was in the investigative report by the detective does list Maria's due date as February 15, 2008...where did he get that from?? [/*]

Weren't there also the DI's at Parris who got in trouble for hazing too?

He certainly couldn't have picked up the phone called the NH and they would have just told him, we know that much.

jmo

IvySterling

04-15-2008, 12:35 AM

Originally posted by marinewife5

the important thing is that if it was christina, she did it with love for cesar in her heart:o [/*]
Okay, that was just down right funny :D High Five

marinewife5

04-15-2008, 12:39 AM

Originally posted by IvySterling

Okay, that was just down right funny :D High Five [/*]:D

caejde

04-15-2008, 12:42 AM

Originally posted by ATLANTIS
I thought the military had the dna of all its active duty people in case they went to Iraq or Afghanistan and were kidnapped and murdered..so they could identify the remains.

Even if that wasn't the case seems to me they could have found his dna in his house from something he had used and compare it to the baby's dna...

I am starting to wonder if the military is hiding something about this case... [/*]

They said they do have DNA but now that he is in custody they are going to wait for a fresh sample. Also, as for the DNA that is on file, I think somewhere on here it was posted that for it to be used for criminal investigations, it has to be approved by someone...JMO since I don't have a link.

marinewife5

04-15-2008, 12:42 AM

Originally posted by ATLANTIS
I thought the military had the dna of all its active duty people in case they went to Iraq or Afghanistan and were kidnapped and murdered..so they could identify the remains.

Even if that wasn't the case seems to me they could have found his dna in his house from something he had used and compare it to the baby's dna...

I am starting to wonder if the military is hiding something about this case... [/*]

the military does have that dna on file, but it can only be used in a criminal case under extenuating circumstances. it has to be requested, then approved by the secretary of the navy. there would basically have to be no other source for the sample. jmo

caejde

04-15-2008, 12:43 AM

Originally posted by hinman
There is absolutely no way that CL drove Marias car around to different places and did not have help getting home. Someone knows more then they are telling LE. [/*]

Now, he could have ran back home or back to where he left his vehicle and not have involved anyone! **sarcasm here**

caejde

04-15-2008, 12:45 AM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

Weren't there also the DI's at Parris who got in trouble for hazing too?

He certainly couldn't have picked up the phone called the NH and they would have just told him, we know that much.

jmo [/*]

I'm sure, but when I went in 2000 I didn't get hazed and noone in my platoon was either. Now when I was in Hawaii, a girl in my unit's husband got in trouble for hazing. This was probably around 2002 or so. He was in a different unit than us, he was a Sgt. Him and a couple others got in trouble, they lost rank and were restricted to the barracks and lost pay.

nuttintodo

04-15-2008, 12:46 AM

Originally posted by caejde

Now, he could have ran back home or back to where he left his vehicle and not have involved anyone! **sarcasm here** [/*]

But of course! One would think he ran everywhere. *sarcasm in effect*

:biggrin:

caejde

04-15-2008, 12:47 AM

Originally posted by AnnieBean

I'm glad you explained that, I didn't know what it meant and I wasn't going to ask since everyone else seemed to know...
thanks.:) [/*]

To be completely honest, I had forgot about the Code Red from the movie. I know Lt. Kaffee-Tom Cruise's character-is cross examining the Col-played by Jack Nicholson and he wants the truth...hence the line "You can't handle the truth". Anyway, I asked my husband to refresh my memory.

IvySterling

04-15-2008, 12:47 AM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

I'm sure if any taxi services were used, there would be records of those as well.

Someone helped him move her car while he was doing the parking lot shuffle.

jmoo [/*]
Maybe someone else was driving Maria's car around for a few days, 'test driving' it pending sale and worked at the salvage/car repair place.................okay, too far out there :shrug:

caejde

04-15-2008, 12:48 AM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

But of course! One would think he ran everywhere. *sarcasm in effect*

:biggrin: [/*]

Well, Lisa said he was a good runner.

nuttintodo

04-15-2008, 12:48 AM

caejde

04-15-2008, 12:49 AM

Originally posted by marinewife5

the military does have that dna on file, but it can only be used in a criminal case under extenuating circumstances. it has to be requested, then approved by the secretary of the navy. there would basically have to be no other source for the sample. jmo [/*]

I think it's possible that maybe they couldn't get enough DNA from his home...but I don't know how much is needed.

marinewife5

04-15-2008, 12:50 AM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

Didn't someone post it was 3/4 of a mile from CAL's? Or am I dreaming? [/*]

that was me, and i'm not surprised you dream about me. I will measure it tomorrow. :rolleyes:

hinman

04-15-2008, 12:50 AM

Originally posted by caejde

I think it's possible that maybe they couldn't get enough DNA from his home...but I don't know how much is needed. [/*]I don't know either caejde, I wonder if the condition of the baby made it hard to get DNA to compare?

IvySterling

04-15-2008, 12:51 AM

Originally posted by caejde

I think it's possible that maybe they couldn't get enough DNA from his home...but I don't know how much is needed. [/*]
Or maybe the problem was getting the DNA processed on the fetus?

hinman

04-15-2008, 12:52 AM

Originally posted by marinewife5

that was me, and i'm not surprised you dream about me. I will measure it tomorrow. :rolleyes: [/*]yikes that is going to take one long tape measure:D

caejde

04-15-2008, 12:52 AM

Originally posted by hinman
I don't know either caejde, I wonder if the condition of the baby made it hard to get DNA to compare? [/*]

Maybe and perhaps that's why they want a good, fresh sample from Cesar.

marinewife5

04-15-2008, 12:52 AM

Originally posted by ATLANTIS
I would have signed a dna release in a heartbeat.It is a murder investigation after all.So I wonder if there is something else there....
A Few Good Men, the General's Daughter, etc etc . Military conspiracy movies...
Let's hope there isn't one this time around...
There was someone..wasn't there..I think a Colonel who killed his wife...of course there's Jeffrey McDonald and others.So officers have done this sort of thing before... [/*]

He's not an officer. And the law still has to be followed. JMO

hinman

04-15-2008, 12:55 AM

I am off to bed guys. :seeya:
Hope everyone sleeps good.

marinewife5

04-15-2008, 12:55 AM

Originally posted by hinman
yikes that is going to take one long tape measure:D [/*]

LOL...i don't have a tape measurer. I was gonna use a ruler.

IvySterling

04-15-2008, 12:55 AM

Originally posted by hinman
I am off to bed guys. :seeya:
Hope everyone sleeps good. [/*]
:seeya: hinman!

marinewife5

04-15-2008, 12:55 AM

Originally posted by hinman
I am off to bed guys. :seeya:
Hope everyone sleeps good. [/*]:seeya:

caejde

04-15-2008, 12:56 AM

Originally posted by hinman
I am off to bed guys. :seeya:
Hope everyone sleeps good. [/*]

Night!

marinewife5

04-15-2008, 12:59 AM

Originally posted by sherryhefner
G'nite hinman!:seeya:

PS. That marinewife5...what a mess she is!LOL [/*]

she really is. but she's a big improvement on marinewife4!

caejde

04-15-2008, 01:00 AM

Originally posted by ATLANTIS
but an officer could have orchestrated the coverup if there is one.

I don't see why the Navy didn't approve the dna release.. [/*]

As far as I know there was never a request for his DNA. Also, Cesar was never asked to submit for DNA as there was no probable cause.

marinewife5

04-15-2008, 01:02 AM

Originally posted by ATLANTIS
but an officer could have orchestrated the coverup if there is one.

I don't see why the Navy didn't approve the dna release.. [/*]

Why a coverup over the paternity of the baby? He was a cpl for crying out loud...not the stuff marines throw their careers away over. and the secnav has not received a request to my knowledge, as the situation as it is known does not warrant the violation of the privacy law imo...which would just help cesar in court. he has had that right this entire time. jmo

nuttintodo

04-15-2008, 01:03 AM

Originally posted by sherryhefner

Navy? [/*]

The request for the release of the DNA has to come from the Secretary of the Navy as there is no Secretary of the Marines.

But seriously the USMC falls under the US Navy.

caejde

04-15-2008, 01:04 AM

Originally posted by sherryhefner

Navy? [/*]

Secretary of the Navy would have to approve the request since the Marines are a part of the Department of the Navy.

marinewife5

04-15-2008, 01:04 AM

Originally posted by sherryhefner

Let's hope there's no marinewife6!!!!:D [/*]

no, there isn't. for the same reason there is not Formula 410.

nuttintodo

04-15-2008, 01:04 AM

Originally posted by sherryhefner

Let's hope there's no marinewife6!!!!:D [/*]

But there is.... :patriot:

caejde

04-15-2008, 01:04 AM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

The request for the release of the DNA has to come from the Secretary of the Navy as there is no Secretary of the Marines.

But seriously the USMC falls under the US Navy. [/*]

Wow...posted at the same time!

caejde

04-15-2008, 01:09 AM

Good night everyone! I'll try to be here tomorrow.

IvySterling

04-15-2008, 01:10 AM

Originally posted by caejde
Good night everyone! I'll try to be here tomorrow. [/*]
Nite caejde :seeya:

IvySterling

04-15-2008, 01:15 AM

Originally posted by CAT TOY
CL is a marine, his DNA is on file; all gov issue active duty cards have a chip in them, your DNA is part of the file. It's just like being chipped. Believe me; they have it.

CT [/*]
YES, it's been discussed.......read upthread posts CT.

Nite all, see ya tomorrow :seeya:

marinewife5

04-15-2008, 01:17 AM

Originally posted by CAT TOY
CL is a marine, his DNA is on file; all gov issue active duty cards have a chip in them, your DNA is part of the file. It's just like being chipped. Believe me; they have it.

CT [/*]

His DNA is not kept on that chip, nor is his DNA profile. Nor is it kept in his personnel file. It is kept in the DoD registry. http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123038748

marinewife5

04-15-2008, 01:18 AM

Originally posted by IvySterling

YES, it's been discussed.......read upthread posts CT.

Nite all, see ya tomorrow :seeya: [/*]

:seeya:

caejde

04-15-2008, 01:27 AM

Originally posted by CAT TOY
CL is a marine, his DNA is on file; all gov issue active duty cards have a chip in them, your DNA is part of the file. It's just like being chipped. Believe me; they have it.

CT [/*]

Yes I know...I was active duty before. But for them to use it in an investigation, there has to be a request to use it as what is on file is for identifying a body.

marinewife5

04-15-2008, 01:29 AM

G'Night All!:seeya:

chance

04-15-2008, 01:29 AM

Originally posted by ATLANTIS
I thought the military had the dna of all its active duty people in case they went to Iraq or Afghanistan and were kidnapped and murdered..so they could identify the remains.

Even if that wasn't the case seems to me they could have found his dna in his house from something he had used and compare it to the baby's dna...

I am starting to wonder if the military is hiding something about this case... [/*]

EXACTLY!! I think you have nailed it.
I don't think CL's DNA matched.
The asking for a "fresh" sample seems telling to me.
People have been exonerated or convicted on DNA that is 15 to 20 years old. IMO!

MOO of course

marinewife5

04-15-2008, 01:31 AM

Originally posted by chance

EXACTLY!! I think you have nailed it.
I don't think CL's DNA matched.
The asking for a "fresh" sample seems telling to me.
People have been exonerated or convicted on DNA that is 15 to 20 years old. IMO!

MOO of course [/*]

so lets say they have it but it doesn't match? there is no reason to test anyone else, so there would be nothing to cover up, and why cover it up if it's not his? jmo

chance

04-15-2008, 01:38 AM

Originally posted by marinewife5

so lets say they have it but it doesn't match? there is no reason to test anyone else, so there would be nothing to cover up, and why cover it up if it's not his? jmo [/*]

I never said anything about testing anyone else.

I just think LE expected it to be CL's Child What if it wasn't?

Of course they will want a FRESH sample to be sure there was no error in collecting the original sample.

moo

AlohaRainbow

04-15-2008, 03:46 AM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

I don't have the link, but Cicarelli confirmed this past weekend that they were waiting for a fresh sample from CL before conducting the dna testing.

jmo as no link [/*]
that's what i heard.

imo, one reason is to be absolutely certain that the dna sample they test is actually cesar's and not contaminated. if they got some dna from his house, say from a toothbrush, razor or comb... they wouldn't know for certain that the sample was purely his and not contaminated (say by christina picking up his comb, or using his razor, etc.)

eta - it would be a ripe situation for the defense to argue contamination, etc. if a "clean" sample isn't testd)

nelkirk

04-15-2008, 03:47 AM

Wading in here with my hip boots on.....

There are several reasons that a "clean" DNA sample is used for the testing.

First let's get the DNA on file out of the way. Yes there is a database with the DNA of each member of the military in it. It is stored with the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology. This database is not for use for any purpose other than to identify the remains of a service person. It is protected by Privacy Acts as the DNA sample on file belongs to the DONOR not the US Military. When each DONOR's enlistment ends and they receive their discharge they can file a request to have their DONOR SAMPLE removed from the database. Again that DONOR SAMPLE belongs to the DONOR and is protected by Law under Privacy Acts.

While it may seem feasible that the the DONOR SAMPLE be used for immediate DNA indentification for a criminal investigation, it is most complicated. And it would reach into the upper echelon of the Pentagon with many Legal challenges. In civilian life a person may either give a voluntary DNA sample or LE will present probable cause for a search warrant to the court to force the person to give a DNA sample. In all cases the rights of that person must be legally defended. A person's DNA is exclusive to them and in essence is theirs by Laws of Nature and Laws of Men. When they entered the military they were "asked" to give a DONOR SAMPLE of their exclusive property for the exclusive purpose to identity their remains in the case of their death. They were guaranteed that that DNA SAMPLE would be used for no other purpose. The DNA SAMPLE is still legally theirs.

There are legal hurdles that would have to be scaled in order for their DNA SAMPLE to be taken from them and used against them. The accused has rights!(AFGM)

Paternity tests are not 100% accurate, because there can be factors that play in at every step of the collection and testing of a sample. DNA Samples that are old or have been exposed to various environmental produce variants which may cause the accuracy to be lowered. That may be okay for some incidents in life, but when you are going to take the results and use them in a Court of Law, you need the most accurate sample that you can obtain. Obviously straight from the live source would be the best.

The same sample that the prosecution uses for it's test is the very same one that the defense will use if it decides on an dependent lab test of their own.. So there must be a large enough sample available for all to use.

A fresh/clean DNA SAMPLE direct from the source will also insure that no one tampered with the DNA available from the crime scene. (No I am not suggesting that LE would tamper with the evidence), but that the evidence from the crime scene might have been tampered with by person or persons unknown.

And there is also the off chance that the DNA test that they did was inconclusive...it just was not up to the standard that is needed to present it into evidence in a courtof law especially in such a high profile case as this.

nelkirk

04-15-2008, 04:10 AM

Originally posted by AlohaRainbow

that's what i heard.

imo, one reason is to be absolutely certain that the dna sample they test is actually cesar's and not contaminated. if they got some dna from his house, say from a toothbrush, razor or comb... they wouldn't know for certain that the sample was purely his and not contaminated (say by christina picking up his comb, or using his razor, etc.)

eta - it would be a ripe situation for the defense to argue contamination, etc. if a "clean" sample isn't testd) [/*]

ITA

AlohaRainbow

04-15-2008, 04:23 AM

Originally posted by nelkirk

ITA [/*]
i see we posted at the same time - only you explained it in much more detail :)

crymeariver2006

04-15-2008, 07:27 AM

Ah, Aloha and nelkirk have been reading my mind again I see! LE has no guarantee that it was Cesar's toothbrush (blech if he didn't even take a toothbrush when he ran!), or Cesar's drinking glass, or cigarette butt - what have you. Better to do a paternity test with a known, fresh, sample.

As far as DNA for the crime scene, one would hope that Christina's DNA sample was also obtained. I've never seen it mentioned, but maybe it just goes without saying.

And on the prior topic of "Senior Officer"....Mary Lauterbach has long believed that Cesar was a Senior Officer to Maria. Most of the information in the SW regarding Maria came from Mary. She has also believed in this vast conspiracy to shut Maria up.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist nor do I believe Maria's murder was any "Code Red" or anything of the sort.

JMO

CANDYKISSES

04-15-2008, 07:31 AM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006
Ah, Aloha and nelkirk have been reading my mind again I see! LE has no guarantee that it was Cesar's toothbrush (blech if he didn't even take a toothbrush when he ran!), or Cesar's drinking glass, or cigarette butt - what have you. Better to do a paternity test with a known, fresh, sample.

As far as DNA for the crime scene, one would hope that Christina's DNA sample was also obtained. I've never seen it mentioned, but maybe it just goes without saying.

And on the prior topic of "Senior Officer"....Mary Lauterbach has long believed that Cesar was a Senior Officer to Maria. Most of the information in the SW regarding Maria came from Mary. She has also believed in this vast conspiracy to shut Maria up.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist nor do I believe Maria's murder was any "Code Red" or anything of the sort.

JMO [/*]

AMEN ALOHA...the entire document over on AMW is full of misprints and miisspeaks. What a shame too.

BUT LIKE YOU...from hearing MW (Mary's attorney) speak and this idea that she could be told what to do etc...I am thinking Mary really thought she was being ordered to do something by a SENIOR OFFICER when she was having a relationship with Cesar who IMO is more or less a peer of one more rank....and from there things went bad.

ALL JUST MY OPINION.

:patriot:

martha

04-15-2008, 07:45 AM

Originally posted by sunstar

No it hasn't, and a pregnancy test in May was negative, IIRC, but positive the following month. [/*] so if thih was true then she did not tell the truth the baby was not due till feb.right? I think there was no rape. more like an affair. maybe ml just told her mother it was a rape to cover up the affair.she knew her mother would not approve of the affair with a married man and even ml would have known it was wrong but feel in love with cl and wanted to cover that up. Maybe what she told her mother was not the truth. after she told her that then she had to turn in the rape charges on cl. I think we or all going to be shocked out of our boots when the truth comes out if it ever does. JMHO not trying to say anything bad about anyone in this case just guessing. :rose:

martha

04-15-2008, 08:04 AM

Did one of the reports say the baby was due Feb 15 2008? did they say she was not pg in may but tested post in june then the feb 15 date would be correct!!!!! i am just asking i have not stayed up on all the reports. when the trial starts i think i need to get a note book and stay up on all the facts lol:rose:

martha

04-15-2008, 08:05 AM

to early for me can;t type and can;t spell this morning my eyes or not open good yet lol:rose:

crymeariver2006

04-15-2008, 08:27 AM

Originally posted by martha
Did one of the reports say the baby was due Feb 15 2008? did they say she was not pg in may but tested post in june then the feb 15 date would be correct!!!!! i am just asking i have not stayed up on all the reports. when the trial starts i think i need to get a note book and stay up on all the facts lol:rose: [/*]

I think we'll need several notebooks before all is said and done!

Yes, the military doctor says estimated conception date of 5/14, which would give a due date of around 2/14. Give or take a few days on either.

The pregnancy test of 5/11 was negative. Maria went home sometime near the end of June and was sick and thought she had the flu. When she returned to the base, she went to the doctor on 6/27 and the pregnancy test was positive.

I think that Mary Lauterbach believed Maria was due on January 9th (which would have coincided with the rape she told her mother about and reported to the MC).