Sunday 13 April 2008 Lauterbach Case

[sunstar]

Originally posted by alter ego

CSI investigators are looking over the suspect crowbar for clues and forensic testing.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/01/19/national/main3731447.shtml?source=RSSattr=HOME_3731447

Officials at the Onslow County, N.C. sheriff's office have confirmed they have the suspected weapon in their possession but not confirmed it is a crowbar.

http://198.105.192.54/Blotter/story?id=4155874&page=1 [/*]
Thank you so much ~ I remember reading the articles in Jan. but hadn't saved them. I guess we won't know the results of the testing until he goes to trial.

[Janz]

Originally posted by sunstar

Thank you so much ~ I remember reading the articles in Jan. but hadn't saved them. I guess we won't know the results of the testing until he goes to trial. [/*]

..or he confesses, which wouldn`t surprise me!

[strick10]

Originally posted by Devotion


You may have been correct about the dining area, table and chairs....

Who knows, she could have been sitting at the dining room table talking or fell against the table or one of the chairs.
I feel the LE made a mistake not checking the table and chairs.
The timing is a big coincidence and I do not believe in coincidences.....jmo [/*]
Yup....

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by Devotion


You may have been correct about the dining area, table and chairs....

Who knows, she could have been sitting at the dining room table talking or fell against the table or one of the chairs.
I feel the LE made a mistake not checking the table and chairs.
The timing is a big coincidence and I do not believe in coincidences.....jmo [/*]

The LE made a mistake in not checking the table and chairs?

[strick10]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


It will if the Defense is doing its job...thats how justice works nowadays, doncha know, its a turn of a phrase or "impressions" of other people that can sink or swim a case, it seems, jmo. [/*]

:seeya: Annie Bean! Good to see ya! It's going to be interesting what avenue the defense will take.

[strick10]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


The LE made a mistake in not checking the table and chairs? [/*]

One of my earlier questions awhile back SS. Couldn't figure out why the dining set was still in the garage after all that time....then come to find out that they sold a dining set before CAL fled and after Maria was murdered. LE made a possible mistake in not chekcing the table and chairs the buyer told the LE they had in their possession that was purchased from the L's.

[Babes]

Why did Cesar told Brown that the Military will prosecute him without evidence? - Are there some powerful people he's afraid of? Why would he like to try this case in public?

[hinman]

Originally posted by strick10


One of my earlier questions awhile back SS. Couldn't figure out why the dining set was still in the garage after all that time....then come to find out that they sold a dining set before CAL fled and after Maria was murdered. LE made a possible mistake in not checking the table and chairs the buyer told the LE they had in their possession that was purchased from the L's. [/*]I thought they took everything out of the garage and I assumed checked everything.

I guess not.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by Devotion


You may have been correct about the dining area, table and chairs....

Who knows, she could have been sitting at the dining room table talking or fell against the table or one of the chairs.
I feel the LE made a mistake not checking the table and chairs.
The timing is a big coincidence and I do not believe in coincidences.....jmo [/*]

If the table (and chairs) were sold during the period of 12/15 until 1/11, LE may not have been aware of their existence.

That being said, the myspace poster only referred to the purchase of a table, not chairs.

In one of the photos from when the police took everything out of the garage, we saw chairs but I don't recall if we ever saw a table. (I'll see if I can find a photo but I'm sure someone speedier than I will have it to you soon. :D ).

ETA: Looks like there is a table (right behind the crime scene tape) in this photo. Not sure if it is the one that goes with the chairs or not.

http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn213/Nuttins198/?action=view&current=contentsfromcalhouse.jpg

(hat tip nuttin' - p.s. love the additions!)

[sunstar]

Originally posted by Janz


..or he confesses, which wouldn`t surprise me! [/*]
Because he's guilt-stricken or wants to avoid military trial? After his "proof" comment, I don't get the same feeling. I think he'll want a state trial.

[Janz]

Originally posted by strick10


One of my earlier questions awhile back SS. Couldn't figure out why the dining set was still in the garage after all that time....then come to find out that they sold a dining set before CAL fled and after Maria was murdered. LE made a possible mistake in not chekcing the table and chairs the buyer told the LE they had in their possession that was purchased from the L's. [/*]

Thanks for clearing that up strick. Got here late today and didn`t know what posters were referring to. When did the buyers notify LE?

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by strick10


One of my earlier questions awhile back SS. Couldn't figure out why the dining set was still in the garage after all that time....then come to find out that they sold a dining set before CAL fled and after Maria was murdered. LE made a possible mistake in not chekcing the table and chairs the buyer told the LE they had in their possession that was purchased from the L's. [/*]

Do we know they did not check them? That's what I'm trying to ascertain.

[SavannahStar]

I am also wondering what possible forensic evidence the table and chairs would have anyway, if not looked at by LE, or IF looked at by LE. Surely fingerprints from Cesar, Christina and Abrianna would be on there. And if Maria's were, or even a trace of her blood, what would that prove? We already know she died in that house. :shrug:

[Devotion]

Originally posted by sunstar

Thank you for the information on the protocol for the parties. It's much easier to understand now that this wasn't something Maria could decide at the last minute to go to and I do remember the MC saying she'd elected not to attend. I agree that it looks like Maria was telling her family some things that weren't true,

maybe to give them the impression all was well when in fact she regretted joining the Marines and was indeed planning to leave on her own accord ~

especially if there was some disagreement between her and mother about keeping the baby. [/*]
If it's true the Military had to have the names of everyone attending the Party in advance,
then Christina had to know C. was NOT going to the party before she left the house that Friday.

I have my doubts that M. would have left that late in her pregnancy unless:
Cesar was leaving with her...
other wise How would she have had money for lodging, food and the delivery of her baby?

Remember CL was telling friends "his" wife was pregnant.
Why? we know Christina was not pregnant.
Could this possibly have been a clue that C. was planning to leave Christina for Maria..

Could Maria's Mom have convinced M. to give the baby up for adoption and M. went to C.'s house to tell him?

It doesn't make sense that she would draw out $700.00 and then slit her own throat several hours later.....jmo

[strick10]

Originally posted by Babes
Why did Cesar told Brown that the Military will prosecute him without evidence? - Are there some powerful people he's afraid of? Why would he like to try this case in public? [/*]

Military wouldn't have prosecuted him w/out evidence. Military justice is served very closely to the civilian courts. He probably fears the death penalty for the murder of both Maria and the baby as the military could try him for both. He murdered, if he is the murderer, another Marine and that is beyond horrible. Or as he said Leavenworth and the chain gang. He probably also fears the Marines themselves, his peers/equals.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by sunstar

I just don't see how CL could change his defense after leaving the notes that she slit her own throat, so, imo, he's going to have to find some "experts" to back up that theory about how her head injuries occurred. [/*]

Me either and I just went and read some medical sites and blunt force trauma to the head can happen when the person falls and the head is slammed into a hard surface like an unyielding concrete flooring or stationary object. All blunt force trauma cases are not done intentionally. They are either accidents or intentional.

Severe head trauma from a hard fall onto a hard surface or object.

So I do think his attorney will most likely bring in an expert to testify to this if he sticks to his story.

imoo

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by Devotion


I have my doubts that M. would have left that late in her pregnancy unless:
Cesar was leaving with her...
other wise How would she have had money for lodging, food and the delivery of her baby?

Remember CL was telling friends "his" wife was pregnant.
Why? we know Christina was not pregnant.
Could this possibly have been a clue that C. was planning to leave Christina for Maria..

Could Maria's Mom have convinced M. to give the baby up for adoption and M. went to C.'s house to tell him?

Possibly breaking C.'s heart and causing the argument?

It doesn't make sense that she would draw out $700.00 and then slit her own throat several hours later.....jmo [/*]

ITA, and see that as a possibility too now. :(

Tho,I just think she was committed to keeping her baby for some reason. JMO :rose:

[hinman]

Originally posted by sunstar

And what happened to the crowbar, or was that just a rumor? [/*]Just sitting here thinking about the crowbar and I think that it will more then likely have no prints or Cl's prints because he is the one who returned it to the owner.

The owners prints might be on there to since I am sure he grabbed it when CL returned it.

[strick10]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


Do we know they did not check them? That's what I'm trying to ascertain. [/*]

Don't know for sure if they did or didn't. The poster states that the buyer contacted LE and LE didn't want to see the set so the buyer re-upholstered the set. It may not bear any relevance to the case :shrug: . Like alot of info that the LE has not released this may fall into that category. So no, we don't know.

[Janz]

Originally posted by sunstar

Because he's guilt-stricken or wants to avoid military trial? After his "proof" comment, I don't get the same feeling. I think he'll want a state trial. [/*]

Don`t know really, just guessing, he probably at this point trusts SB more than the military. Still , saying the word "proof" could show defiance and he will opt for a trial.

Sure would like to know which it will be. Has it been reported he will or wont fight extradition?

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


Do we know they did not check them? That's what I'm trying to ascertain. [/*]

My question too since that rumor was around since the first rumor about the Sunset too. I believe they checked out the Sunset but that's just my opinion. :read:

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Me either and I just went and read some medical sites and blunt force trauma to the head can happen when the person falls and the head is slammed into a hard surface like an unyielding concrete flooring or stationary object. All blunt force trauma cases are not done intentionally. They are either accidents or intentional.

Severe head trauma from a hard fall onto a hard surface or object.

So I do think his attorney will most likely bring in an expert to testify to this if he sticks to his story.

imoo [/*]
As in the case of the woman who died from Blunt Force to the head from being knocked to the floor of a boat by a Sting-Ray not long ago for example!

[strick10]

Originally posted by hinman
I thought they took everything out of the garage and I assumed checked everything.

I guess not. [/*]

I believe the set in the garage when the LE was there was new to them. They had already sold the old dining set before then.

[hinman]

Originally posted by strick10


I believe the set in the garage when the LE was there was new to them. They had already sold the old dining set before then. [/*]Thanks strick.

[strick10]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


If the table (and chairs) were sold during the period of 12/15 until 1/11, LE may not have been aware of their existence.

That being said, the myspace poster only referred to the purchase of a table, not chairs.

In one of the photos from when the police took everything out of the garage, we saw chairs but I don't recall if we ever saw a table. (I'll see if I can find a photo but I'm sure someone speedier than I will have it to you soon. :D ).

ETA: Looks like there is a table (right behind the crime scene tape) in this photo. Not sure if it is the one that goes with the chairs or not.

http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn213/Nuttins198/?action=view&current=contentsfromcalhouse.jpg

(hat tip nuttin' - p.s. love the additions!) [/*]

Well this throws me off. They sold a table. So how do you upholster a table? I give up on this one. Back to the Minute Maid for me.

[hinman]

Originally posted by strick10


Well this throws me off. They sold a table. So how do you upholster a table? I give up on this one. Back to the Minute Maid for me. [/*]Could be why LE was not interested:D

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by strick10


Well this throws me off. They sold a table. So how do you upholster a table? I give up on this one. Back to the Minute Maid for me. [/*]

She could have meant "refinish". Lots of young people don't know the difference or don't even know what it means. And she wasn't the one that bought the table, it was her friend so Lord only knows. :D

[bkwits]

Originally posted by strick10


Well this throws me off. They sold a table. So how do you upholster a table? I give up on this one. Back to the Minute Maid for me. [/*]

She probably meant refinished the table. IMO

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by Devotion

If it's true the Military had to have the names of everyone attending the Party in advance,
then Christina had to know C. was NOT going to the party before she left the house that Friday.

*snipped*

[/*]

I've always assumed Christina knew Cesar wouldn't be there, but not because of the MC having to have all the names in advance (we didn't know that then). I just never subscribed to the theory Christina expected Cesar to be there and was sitting there fuming with rage.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


Oh GB, I have to disagree....we only heard that one word, "proof".....very difficult to interpret. I can't see how it is absolutely a flat denial. [/*]

As I said in my previous post we all are guessing but to me it most certainly was a flat denial. I thought it was a very powerful word but that is JMO tho.


imoo

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


As I said in my previous post we all are guessing but to me it most certainly was a flat denial. I thought it was a very powerful word but that is JMO tho.


imoo [/*]

Hey not a problem. I realized after I hit "submit" that it probably wasn't worth a response from me anyway since you clearly said JMO even on that.

It certainly will be interesting to see what the defense will be or even IF there will be a defense.

I'm on pins and needles! :)

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


I've always assumed Christina knew Cesar wouldn't be there, but not because of the MC having to have all the names in advance (we didn't know that then). I just never subscribed to the theory Christina expected Cesar to be there and was sitting there fuming with rage. [/*]

Or he didn't go because he thought (or heard) that Maria was going to be there and he would not be allowed to be there anyway.

:shrug:

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by strick10


Question. The ME/FE stated that the cut to the throat may have been done after the head trauma. It was used one other time that I can't recall specifically what it was talking about. Anywho would the words "may have" have a big impact during the court proceedings? [/*]

When you leave that door open, it becomes very important IMO strick.

:o

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


As I said in my previous post we all are guessing but to me it most certainly was a flat denial. I thought it was a very powerful word but that is JMO tho.
imoo [/*]
I'm guessing that Cesar's response of "Proof" was the RECALL of someone at the scene of the checkpoint (regarding something else) when they took Cesar into custody.

He could have said something like "what charges" and it was lost in translation and recall.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


When you leave that door open, it becomes very important IMO strick.

:o [/*]

Yep, that "May Have" will become very important in this case.

The ME will not be able to testify with any certainty that it occurred after death..........only may have which of course means it may not have.

imoo

[strick10]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


Or he didn't go because he thought (or heard) that Maria was going to be there and he would not be allowed to be there anyway.

:shrug: [/*]

I don't think so cryme. If the command had known Maria would have wanted to attend they would have directed CAL not to attend or go near the area. Don't think it was because CAL thought or heard she would be there. The command would've made sure that the two were not both present. I think CAL never intended on going in the first place just by the mere fact that he went home. Marines living out in town bring their civies in to work if they don't live w/in a short distance from base so they can change before the party. He could've stayed in his cammies and gone to the party straight from his shop. He did neither so I'm led to believe he had no intention of going.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


I was thinking it meant re-upholster those chairs with the white seats- eek!!!:eek: [/*]

Which would be easier than re-upholstering a table. The top part may go pretty fast, but those darn legs....

:D

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by strick10


I don't think so cryme. If the command had known Maria would have wanted to attend they would have directed CAL not to attend or go near the area. Don't think it was because CAL thought or heard she would be there. The command would've made sure that the two were not both present. I think CAL never intended on going in the first place just by the mere fact that he went home. Marines living out in town bring their civies in to work if they don't live w/in a short distance from base so they can change before the party. He could've stayed in his cammies and gone to the party straight from his shop. He did neither so I'm led to believe he had no intention of going. [/*]

if he never intended to go to the party, then why would CSL go? seems odd to me, but who knows....

[marinewife5]

FWIW, I've been to those parties, and they usually go on a rough head count and when the food is gone, it's gone. With the MPO, neither Cesar or Maria would have gone, and Christina would have known that well before the party. MC etiquette would have frowned on her going at all without her spouse. I'm not saying it's not possible she wasn't there. JMO

[sunstar]

Originally posted by Devotion

If it's true the Military had to have the names of everyone attending the Party in advance,
then Christina had to know C. was NOT going to the party before she left the house that Friday.

I have my doubts that M. would have left that late in her pregnancy unless:
Cesar was leaving with her...
other wise How would she have had money for lodging, food and the delivery of her baby?

Remember CL was telling friends "his" wife was pregnant.
Why? we know Christina was not pregnant.
Could this possibly have been a clue that C. was planning to leave Christina for Maria..

Could Maria's Mom have convinced M. to give the baby up for adoption and M. went to C.'s house to tell him?

It doesn't make sense that she would draw out $700.00 and then slit her own throat several hours later.....jmo [/*]
Of course the last part doesn't make sense, and we know she didn't kill herself. But the part you mentioned about CL telling friends his wife was pregnant and maybe planning to leave with Maria would make Mrs. CL very unhappy, to say the least.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by strick10


I don't think so cryme. If the command had known Maria would have wanted to attend they would have directed CAL not to attend or go near the area. Don't think it was because CAL thought or heard she would be there. The command would've made sure that the two were not both present. I think CAL never intended on going in the first place just by the mere fact that he went home. Marines living out in town bring their civies in to work if they don't live w/in a short distance from base so they can change before the party. He could've stayed in his cammies and gone to the party straight from his shop. He did neither so I'm led to believe he had no intention of going. [/*]

But if he "heard" she was going to be there, couldn't it have come from command? That's what I was referring to. Not that Winken told Blinken and Blinken told Nod....

Back away from the Minute Maid!

:D

[cuppajoe]

Originally posted by hinman
Just sitting here thinking about the crowbar and I think that it will more then likely have no prints or Cl's prints because he is the one who returned it to the owner.

The owners prints might be on there to since I am sure he grabbed it when CL returned it. [/*]

I think they will be looking more for Maria's blood on the weapon which might have been left in crevices when cleaned off. That's the way they will prove it is the murder weapon. jmo

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by cuppajoe


I think they will be looking more for Maria's blood on the weapon which might have been left in crevices when cleaned off. That's the way they will prove it is the murder weapon. jmo [/*]

True. It might not show who used it though.

:shrug:

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


Maybe Cesar drew the short straw on which one went to the party because one of them needed to stay home w/ the kid?:shrug: I never have found a concrete answer to -where WAS the kid when 'all of this' went down????? [/*]

I don't think anyone has confirmed where their child was, but I am thinking and praying she was not there that day Annie.

JMO.

[hinman]

Originally posted by cuppajoe


I think they will be looking more for Maria's blood on the weapon which might have been left in crevices when cleaned off. That's the way they will prove it is the murder weapon. jmo [/*]
yup, that to. I am sure that will be important.
Thanks and welcome.

[strick10]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


if he never intended to go to the party, then why would CSL go? seems odd to me, but who knows.... [/*]

CSL probably knew people at the party, maybe she was attached to the same company or group or whatnot when when she was an active reserve. Still kinda funny to show up if you're no longer a part of that command IMO.

[daniel green]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


snipped

The idea that Maria used the MPO to avoid other functions tells me Mary either was not getting the truth or the story evolved and I don't know which to believe since Maria can't tell us.

The idea her friends have confirmed some kind of relationship and that Mary is now saying she didn't even like him....

[/*]

She has added and subtracted so much to the story now that it's ridiculous. But there seems to be no doubt that the mother was not getting the truth from ML, imo.

[hinman]

Originally posted by strick10


CSL probably knew people at the party, maybe she was attached to the same company or group or whatnot when when she was an active reserve. Still kinda funny to show up if you're no longer a part of that command IMO. [/*]I wonder if they planned to go with another couple,

[strick10]

Originally posted by marinewife5
FWIW, I've been to those parties, and they usually go on a rough head count and when the food is gone, it's gone. With the MPO, neither Cesar or Maria would have gone, and Christina would have known that well before the party. MC etiquette would have frowned on her going at all without her spouse. I'm not saying it's not possible she wasn't there. JMO [/*]

to add: each respective section would know who planned to attend the party and who had opted out.

[cuppajoe]

Originally posted by hinman

yup, that to. I am sure that will be important.
Thanks and welcome. [/*]

:seeya:

[strick10]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


Maybe Cesar drew the short straw on which one went to the party because one of them needed to stay home w/ the kid?:shrug: I never have found a concrete answer to -where WAS the kid when 'all of this' went down????? [/*]

Guess Christina won? I wonder too where the little girl was. Maybe at the sitters or maybe CSL picked her up from the sitters and took her with to the party. I hope not with her father.

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


if he never intended to go to the party, then why would CSL go? seems odd to me, but who knows.... [/*]

I don't think it is totally out of the realm of possibility. I know wives who go out without their husband and vice versa, on occasion. What may seem odd to you, may have been not that big a deal to them.

[hinman]

Originally posted by strick10


Guess Christina won? I wonder too where the little girl was. Maybe at the sitters or maybe CSL picked her up from the sitters and took her with to the party. I hope not with her father. [/*]I would say she was not with dad.

I think we would of heard about LE questioning the little girl if she was there when it happened.

of course I could be wrong though.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by strick10


Guess Christina won? I wonder too where the little girl was. Maybe at the sitters or maybe CSL picked her up from the sitters and took her with to the party. I hope not with her father. [/*]

I hope she wasn't in that house period.

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


Even if she was a Marine too (although reserve status)? If they had the same friends? [/*]
Even if she was a marine too. Even if they had the same friends. The marine is invited, the spouse is a guest of the Marine. jmo

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by hinman
I would say she was not with dad.

I think we would of heard about LE questioning the little girl if she was there when it happened.

of course I could be wrong though. [/*]

Isn't the little girl about 18 months old?

:shrug:

[hinman]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


Isn't the little girl about 18 months old?

:shrug: [/*]IS she that young I thought she was older then that, I thought 2 or 3.

[strick10]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


But if he "heard" she was going to be there, couldn't it have come from command? That's what I was referring to. Not that Winken told Blinken and Blinken told Nod....

Back away from the Minute Maid!

:D [/*]

Re-read the MC's response to the Congressman. They were directed not to attend formations or unit events of any type (formal or informal) where one or the other was expected to be present. Maria excercised this MPO protection and she was excused from formations, events and functions. I have to agree w/ MW5 that most likely CAL was not allowed to attend the party because of the MPO.

Sorry cryme can't back away from the Minute Maid but I'll be careful not to spill on the rug. :lol:

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by marinewife5

Even if she was a marine too. Even if they had the same friends. The marine is invited, the spouse is a guest of the Marine. jmo [/*]

All our pondering about this.....I bet you any money LE knows why she went, why he didn't go, what she thought about it, what time she got there, what time she left, who she talked to, where the kid was, and every other little minute detail about the party.

Too bad we didn't know and can only speculate the night away. :D

[strick10]

Originally posted by hinman
I wonder if they planned to go with another couple, [/*]

Doesn't seem that way. CSL was probably went straight to the party when she left work on Lejeune. It's kinda weird in the MC for couples to show up together. I dunno. Don't know why CSL would show up at her husbands command party. A little weird.:shrug:

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


I don't think it is totally out of the realm of possibility. I know wives who go out without their husband and vice versa, on occasion. What may seem odd to you, may have been not that big a deal to them. [/*]

true, but it wasn't just "going out" - it was HIS office party...

jmo

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by strick10


Re-read the MC's response to the Congressman. They were directed not to attend formations or unit events of any type (formal or informal) where one or the other was expected to be present. Maria excercised this MPO protection and she was excused from formations, events and functions. I have to agree w/ MW5 that most likely CAL was not allowed to attend the party because of the MPO.

Sorry cryme can't back away from the Minute Maid but I'll be careful not to spill on the rug. :lol: [/*]

:punch: That stuff won't come up even with every Billy Mays product known to man!

Anyhow, if Cesar was forbidden to go to the party, would his "guest" still be allowed to attend? I mean, I guess she was since she was supposedly there, but how does that work since she wasn't active at that time?

[hinman]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


Question an 18 month old?? noooo, huh???? [/*]didn't realize she was only 18 months.

[sunstar]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


All our pondering about this.....I bet you any money LE knows why she went, why he didn't go, what she thought about it, what time she got there, what time she left, who she talked to, where the kid was, and every other little minute detail about the party.

Too bad we didn't know and can only speculate the night away. :D [/*]
I'd imagine you're right about this or else how could they be so sure she wasn't involved in Maria's death?

[hinman]

Originally posted by strick10


Doesn't seem that way. CSL was probably went straight to the party when she left work on Lejeune. It's kinda weird in the MC for couples to show up together. I dunno. Don't know why CSL would show up at her husbands command party. A little weird.:shrug: [/*] I wonder why she stayed. I guess she was comfortable.

[Janz]

Originally posted by hinman
didn't realize she was only 18 months. [/*]

Just a toddler, poor Baby!!

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


I don't think it is totally out of the realm of possibility. I know wives who go out without their husband and vice versa, on occasion. What may seem odd to you, may have been not that big a deal to them. [/*]

I understand that line of thinking, as my husband and I are like that. Except I do not go to his unit functions without him. when he is out of town or deployed, i do not go. i am not technically invited. i may know about it, and i know everyone in his unit, but mc etiquette stops me from going. and that etiquette is taken very seriously. i am not saying she didn't go. but if she did, i would have to wonder what was more important than following that ettiquette. and having been a marine herself, she had first hand knowledge of that ettiquette. jmo

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


true, but it wasn't just "going out" - it was HIS office party...

jmo [/*]

YES, there is a difference is what is acceptable.

My mom career military wife would not ever still to this day even go to a reunion without my daddy. :no:

Myself married military and not a lifer, would not have either.

Maybe it's just unwritten code, you know how sometimes that exists??? :o

jmo

[Mitzy2]

Originally posted by marinewife5
FWIW, I've been to those parties, and they usually go on a rough head count and when the food is gone, it's gone. With the MPO, neither Cesar or Maria would have gone, and Christina would have known that well before the party. MC etiquette would have frowned on her going at all without her spouse. I'm not saying it's not possible she wasn't there. JMO [/*] I recall you stating months ago that is not the normal protacol of a Marine's spouse to show up at a "company" party w/o him/her being there ! First "red flag" Wheres is my husband ? Where is Maria ??:shrug:

[strick10]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


:punch: That stuff won't come up even with every Billy Mays product known to man!

Anyhow, if Cesar was forbidden to go to the party, would his "guest" still be allowed to attend? I mean, I guess she was since she was supposedly there, but how does that work since she wasn't active at that time? [/*]

Typically the "guest" doesn't go alone. They may meet up at the party though. I'm thinking CSL was comfortable w/ some of the Marines there that she may have known. Comfortable enough to go w/out any uneasy feelings that she was there w/out CAL.

[hinman]

Originally posted by Janz


Just a toddler, poor Baby!! [/*]I agree. She looks so precious. I thought she was older, I was thinking she was the same age as Blake (Jessie davis's son) who said mommy in rug.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by Janz


Just a toddler, poor Baby!! [/*]

Yes, that is why I want to be wrong on my thoughts about Christina, but I WOULD STILL BE LEFT questioning her being with her mother right now.

IMO, it's not a good sign at all that Christina would be even entertaining the thought of talking to Cesar.

JMO.:(

[hinman]

Originally posted by marinewife5


I understand that line of thinking, as my husband and I are like that. Except I do not go to his unit functions without him. when he is out of town or deployed, i do not go. i am not technically invited. i may know about it, and i know everyone in his unit, but mc etiquette stops me from going. and that etiquette is taken very seriously. i am not saying she didn't go. but if she did, i would have to wonder what was more important than following that ettiquette. and having been a marine herself, she had first hand knowledge of that ettiquette. jmo [/*]well would she be reprimanded for it.

Never mind she was not in the military. Would he be reprimanded for it?

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by Mitzy2
I recall you stating months ago that is not the normal protacol of a Marine's spouse to show up at a "company" party w/o him/her being there ! First "red flag" Wheres is my husband ? Where is Maria ??:shrug: [/*]

I wonder if she went to see what "dirt" she could get on Maria and Cesar, since she knew neither would be there. It would have to be something very important to her. Just a thought, and JMO

[Janz]

Originally posted by hinman
I agree. She looks so precious. I thought she was older, I was thinking she was the same age as Blake (Jessie davis's son) who said mommy in rug. [/*]

So many little children left in the aftermath of all this killing, that is so very heartbreaking, and of course little Garbriel wasn`t even allowed to live...:(

[strick10]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


I am just having a hard time trying to attach a point of reference to the military way of life, rules, living arrangements, restrictions, etc. I have never been intimately involved in the military relm until 2008, but anyway...I always think back to a couple I knew that was in the fire department together. Both firefighters.
See, in such a setting, if one didn't show up for a christmas party and the other one did, NBD cos both of them knew everyone and their spouses... so everytime I try to make 'sense' of that day, who was where and WHY... the fact that they were both military brings up sooo many other questions...nothing like any civilian setting!!! [/*]

Kinda the same in the military. Two active married Marines and only the Marine who's command is hosting the party shows up. No biggie. Or the Marine wife shows up to husbands command party and he doesn't show, kinda weird. I would've never dreamt to have done that. It's just not done. Now if they're both in the same command and one doesn't show, no biggie. CSL was no longer an active reserve nor was she an active Marine. She was a drilling reservist. She was no longer part of that company, if she in fact had ever been.

[Janz]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


Yes, that is why I want to be wrong on my thoughts about Christina, but I WOULD STILL BE LEFT questioning her being with her mother right now.

IMO, it's not a good sign at all that Christina would be even entertaining the thought of talking to Cesar.

JMO.:( [/*]

Yep, I do believe I would be more concerned for my own child`s safety!

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by hinman
well would she be reprimanded for it.

Never mind she was not in the military. Would he be reprimanded for it? [/*]

she would not be reprimanded, and he may or may not be, depending on her behavior at the party and the strictness of his leadership. i have seen it "reflect" on other's careers before. my husband is ultimately responsible for my behaviors and actions on base and at unit functions. jmo

[crymeariver2006]

While it's on my mind (so little is), but did anybody ever get an answer to Donna's earlier question about how the military would feel about Christina's contact with a deserter, seeing that she was active at the time?

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


Question an 18 month old?? noooo, huh???? [/*]
Add three months to her age as of now.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by IvySterling

Add three months to her age as of now. [/*]

That's right! Reminds me of my husband's elderly great uncle who, on my husband's 21st birthday, says "He looks big for a 9 year old!"

:D

[strick10]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006
While it's on my mind (so little is), but did anybody ever get an answer to Donna's earlier question about how the military would feel about Christina's contact with a deserter, seeing that she was active at the time? [/*]

I can't say what her command is feeling or saying. IMO I think she may not be looked at favorably right now. There are certain codes of conduct a Marine lives by and should these should never be broken. She has broken the code of trust and integrity. Nothing may come of it,,,,,I just don't know to be honest.

[AlohaRainbow]

Originally posted by sunstar

*snip*
I agree that it looks like Maria was telling her family some things that weren't true, maybe to give them the impression all was well when in fact she regretted joining the Marines and was indeed planning to leave on her own accord ~ especially if there was some disagreement between her and mother about keeping the baby. [/*]
but it sounds to me that she was telling her family things that would leave them to think that all *wasn't* well... e.g. that she was sometimes forced to show up at unit meetings where cesar would be present (which doe not seem to be the case), to a "reluctance" to attend the christmas party because cesar would be there...but at the same time a "reluctant resignation" that she should at least show up...

it seems that she might want to give her family the impression that all wasn't well to explain/justify why she left (or was going to leave) the marines (if she indeed had made up her mind).

[i do wish we would find out someday whether maria had decided to keep her precious baby, or whether she was going to go the adoption route, which her mother apparently favored.]

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


I think that 'etiquette' is great. My hub would be :eek: if I showed up for one of their garage motor-fixing sessions without him (or with him!!)
So there would be no- "Hi I am with Cpl. Cesar Lauren, I am his wife/ guest. He'll be along soon...oh, hi Betty!" (moves into the party area and away from whoever is 'at the door'... ) even if it was just a unit party? How fancy-schmancy are these unit parties?

Can I compare it to this:
You work for a large company, in the shipping department, and your spouse works in the accounting department. You know almost all the same people. maybe you even socialize outside work with some of them. Theres a big Company party once a year for the holidays...if either one of you or both of you showed up, it would not raise eyebrows. BUT if the shipping department has their own little department party (as often happens in lg companies imo) for gift exchange, home made goodies, and punch-whatever- and the shipping dept spouse isn't there but the accounting deaprtment spouse shows up and proceeds to make merry- that would be weird.
Is it like that? [/*]

this would have been a more casual party, as it was 100% optional. as far as the comparison to the company: if camp lejeune was a company. christina worked in shipping, cesar worked in waste management. if the company threw the party, both are invited. if only waste management department threw a party, cesar would be invited and christina would be the guest. this was specifically a unit party, and christina was not in that unit.

and i really just think it's odd she went KNOWING he would not/could not be there. jmo

[hinman]

Originally posted by marinewife5


she would not be reprimanded, and he may or may not be, depending on her behavior at the party and the strictness of his leadership. i have seen it "reflect" on other's careers before. my husband is ultimately responsible for my behaviors and actions on base and at unit functions. jmo [/*]Thanks MW.

[sunstar]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006
While it's on my mind (so little is), but did anybody ever get an answer to Donna's earlier question about how the military would feel about Christina's contact with a deserter, seeing that she was active at the time? [/*]
I wonder about that myself. The state might not think she's done anything wrong, but does the Corps feel the same way? :shrug:

[Mitzy2]

Originally posted by marinewife5


I wonder if she went to see what "dirt" she could get on Maria and Cesar, since she knew neither would be there. It would have to be something very important to her. Just a thought, and JMO [/*] Could be , but I still believe she expected her husband to meet her there . Isn't her sister and brother in law stationed at Le Juene ? I would think she had plenty of avenues to get the "dirt" about what was going on ( and rightly so ) !! Based on the "slueths" here on this board , faced with the same situation most would have known what type of ice cream flavor Maria liked or brand of peanut butter she used on her toast in the morning. JMO

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


Oh... I do so love geriatrics....and this is one reason why.... [/*]

Oh I do too!

[sunstar]

Originally posted by AlohaRainbow

but it sounds to me that she was telling her family things that would leave them to think that all *wasn't* well... e.g. that she was sometimes forced to show up at unit meetings where cesar would be present (which doe not seem to be the case), to a "reluctance" to attend the christmas party because cesar would be there...but at the same time a "reluctant resignation" that she should at least show up...

it seems that she might want to give her family the impression that all wasn't well to explain/justify why she left (or was going to leave) the marines (if she indeed had made up her mind).

[i do wish we would find out someday whether maria had decided to keep her precious baby, or whether she was going to go the adoption route, which her mother apparently favored.] [/*]
I agree, there sure are mixed signals here and you brought up some good points that might have been Maria's way of telling her mother she was planning on taking off. I'm more curious what was in El Paso, whose idea it was to go there, and what was going to happen to the baby. I did get from what Maria's mother said early on that her idea for Maria to give up the baby for adoption didn't set well with Maria ~ so that might have given her the idea to contact CL and form a plan to leave. She might have just "had it" with the Marines and her own family.

[Janz]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


thanks MW.

but what a good place to go, a party full of Marines as witnesses that you were NOT home...jus sayin [/*]

Seems logical to me, AnnieBean.

[strick10]

Originally posted by AlohaRainbow

but it sounds to me that she was telling her family things that would leave them to think that all *wasn't* well... e.g. that she was sometimes forced to show up at unit meetings where cesar would be present (which doe not seem to be the case), to a "reluctance" to attend the christmas party because cesar would be there...but at the same time a "reluctant resignation" that she should at least show up...

it seems that she might want to give her family the impression that all wasn't well to explain/justify why she left (or was going to leave) the marines (if she indeed had made up her mind).

[i do wish we would find out someday whether maria had decided to keep her precious baby, or whether she was going to go the adoption route, which her mother apparently favored.] [/*]
:seeya: Aloha. You're right. Seems like Maria wasn't always painting a pretty picture to her family. We now know that Maria wasn't forced to attend formations etc. She was exempt from them due to the MPO. Her being pregnant also exempted her from a few things. I'm sorry but I don't think Maria was going to that party. She'd already announced to her command that she was not going to attend, she was excused. If she changed her mind I can't believe she would just show up without regard as to whether CAL would be there. Maybe she was seeking comfort and sympathy from her mother.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by sunstar

I wonder about that myself. The state might not think she's done anything wrong, but does the Corps feel the same way? :shrug: [/*]

Someone over at Lindell's blog listed a bunch of statutes by number about knowing where a deserter is and failing to report it, or having contact but failing to report it. I just don't know how to get the wording of the specific statues 'cause he didn't give a link! LOL

And yes, the state may not feel she's done anything wrong, but he was also wanted on a federal warrant so......

:shrug:

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


thanks MW.

but what a good place to go, a party full of Marines as witnesses that you were NOT home...jus sayin [/*]

Yes, but unless they were with her the whole weekend.....

Just sayin'........

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by marinewife5


this would have been a more casual party, as it was 100% optional. as far as the comparison to the company: if camp lejeune was a company. christina worked in shipping, cesar worked in waste management. if the company threw the party, both are invited. if only waste management department threw a party, cesar would be invited and christina would be the guest. this was specifically a unit party, and christina was not in that unit.

and i really just think it's odd she went KNOWING he would not/could not be there. jmo [/*]

But LE has the answer, I'm sure. If THEY thought it was odd, I'm sure they know every detail by now. And apparently it didn't raise a red flag ONCE they knew everything. Unless, of course, you subscribe to the conspiracy theory. (And I only call it that because it seems quick and easy, but you know what I mean.....)

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


But LE has the answer, I'm sure. If THEY thought it was odd, I'm sure they know every detail by now. And apparently it didn't raise a red flag ONCE they knew everything. Unless, of course, you subscribe to the conspiracy theory. (And I only call it that because it seems quick and easy, but you know what I mean.....) [/*]

I call it the most believable theory based on polls and my own thoughts. jmo tho.:D

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


I call it the most believable theory based on polls and my own thoughts. jmo tho.:D [/*]

Too far fetched for me. KISS, I believe. And that means Christina is innocent. But......WE SHALL SEE who ends up eating crow. :o

[Miss Behavin]

Originally posted by marinewife5


this would have been a more casual party, as it was 100% optional. as far as the comparison to the company: if camp lejeune was a company. christina worked in shipping, cesar worked in waste management. if the company threw the party, both are invited. if only waste management department threw a party, cesar would be invited and christina would be the guest. this was specifically a unit party, and christina was not in that unit.

and i really just think it's odd she went KNOWING he would not/could not be there. jmo [/*]

Alibi? :eek: jmo

[daniel green]

Originally posted by strick10


Re-read the MC's response to the Congressman. They were directed not to attend formations or unit events of any type (formal or informal) where one or the other was expected to be present. Maria excercised this MPO protection and she was excused from formations, events and functions. I have to agree w/ MW5 that most likely CAL was not allowed to attend the party because of the MPO.

snipped: [/*]

Which makes ML's conversation with her mother about having to go to a party where he would be seem even odder to me.

[AlohaRainbow]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


thanks MW.

but what a good place to go, a party full of Marines as witnesses that you were NOT home...jus sayin [/*]
:cool: and even more so if she knew that "tongues would be wagging" because she was violating marine etiquette - making it even more memorable for the "witnesses"

[Mitzy2]

I have been away from this case for a while. Has it ever been revealed what time Christina arrived at the X-Mas party ? TIA

[Miss Behavin]

I'm more apt to believe Maria planned to keep the baby. One reason being she had picked out a name - women who decide to give up a baby usually remain distant (or try to) and disconnected - imo. Plus, she had baby clothes - newborn 0-3 months.

Anybody know if there were other items purchased for the baby found at Maria's home? (bassinet, crib, etc....)

[Janz]

Originally posted by Mitzy2
I have been away from this case for a while. Has it ever been revealed what time Christina arrived at the X-Mas party ? TIA [/*]

Next to nothing has been revealed about Xtina, except that she feels torn and is deeply in love with her husband.

[sunstar]

Originally posted by daniel green


Which makes ML's conversation with her mother about having to go to a party where he would be seem even odder to me. [/*]
I don't believe she ever planned on going, from what the MC has said. If she'd declined, wouldn't he have been able to though?

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


Too far fetched for me. KISS, I believe. And that means Christina is innocent. But......WE SHALL SEE who ends up eating crow. :o [/*]

I am not so sure it didn't raise red flags........I think maybe other things do too with CSL but they have to have hard evidence not a red flag raising unfortunately. As SB said it is "possible" she didn't know anything ......but he never said it was probable.

See that is exactly how I have felt about this case from day one.

KISS works for Christina Laurean as well as Cesar Laurean in this case.........dont have to twist it like a pretzel to get either one to fit imo. Both had motives just as much as the other one. The time line is so tight imo that either one could be the perp as we will never know precisely the moment Maria was killed.

First case I think I have ever experienced where I have felt this way.

imoo

[Janz]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I am not so sure it didn't raise red flags........I think maybe other things do too with CSL but they have to have hard evidence not a red flag raising unfortunately. As SB said it is "possible" she didn't know anything ......but he never said it was probable.

See that is exactly how I have felt about this case from day one.

KISS works for Christina Laurean as well as Cesar Laurean in this case.........dont have to twist it like a pretzel to get either one to fit imo. Both had motives just as much as the other one. The time line is so tight imo that either one could be the perp as we will never know precisely the moment Maria was killed.

First case I think I have ever experienced where I have felt this way.

imoo [/*]

Thanks GB, First case for me to feel that way, too!

[IvySterling]

~snippedOriginally posted by GentleBreeze
The time line is so tight imo that either one could be the perp as we will never know precisely the moment Maria was killed.
imoo [/*]
I agree, in fact there's no conclusive proof as to when Maria was actually murdered, only speculation based on her cell activity.

However the Onslow LE seems to be going on, and taking Christina's word as to time of events :rolleyes:

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


Too far fetched for me. KISS, I believe. And that means Christina is innocent. But......WE SHALL SEE who ends up eating crow. :o [/*]

That pose you're striking above looks like you are ready. :shrug:

So I wonder if a federal investigator ever asked her if she knew where her husband was or if she was in contact with him?

I'd hate to see her get caught up in that little story with all that integrity. JMOOC. :cool:

[strick10]

Originally posted by Janz


Next to nothing has been revealed about Xtina, except that she feels torn and is deeply in love with her husband. [/*]

;)

[hinman]

Originally posted by Janz


Next to nothing has been revealed about Xtina, except that she feels torn and is deeply in love with her husband. [/*]and she was contemplating suicide.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by daniel green


Which makes ML's conversation with her mother about having to go to a party where he would be seem even odder to me. [/*]

IF she had not exercised that option before, I wouldn't have thought much of it and might have believed that. But knowing she has used the MPO as it should have been lets me believe there was more to that and I don't know if she was just saying it to get off the phone if they were talking about baby placement and she was not wanting to go there.

JMO tho and nothing more. :(

[True2Blues]

Originally posted by Janz


Next to nothing has been revealed about Xtina, except that she feels torn and is deeply in love with her husband. [/*]


There is no doubt that Maria Lauterbach and her unborn child were killed in that house. If Christina didn't do it, and I'm sure a tiny child didn't do it, that leaves one person. One person with a very good motive.

If Christina can still claim to be deeply in love with her husband after that, then she must have known what he was capable of and liked it. Otherwise, she would be feeling like she had been married to a stranger.

[hinman]

Originally posted by Kathy*Rae


:seeya:

I know I'm many pages from catching up, but wanted to address this..

What if:

Maria and CL plan to meet up in El Paso to live happily ever after in CL's native land (thus the ticket purchase) He does say now that he loved her..

.... what happend if C'Tina got wind of "the plan" and killed Maria to stop her...?

Maybe C'Tina kidnapped Maria from her housing and she herself brought Maria to their house...?

Could CL be covering for the wife, trying to save his daughter from life w/o either parent?

:shrug: reaching....waiting for the real answers.. [/*]anything is possible Kathy Rae.


I guess I do not see why he would have to cover for her though to save his daughter from a life with no parent. He could be the parent in her life if she did it.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I am not so sure it didn't raise red flags........I think maybe other things do too with CSL but they have to have hard evidence not a red flag raising unfortunately. As SB said it is "possible" she didn't know anything ......but he never said it was probable.

See that is exactly how I have felt about this case from day one.

KISS works for Christina Laurean as well as Cesar Laurean in this case.........dont have to twist it like a pretzel to get either one to fit imo. Both had motives just as much as the other one. The time line is so tight imo that either one could be the perp as we will never know precisely the moment Maria was killed.

First case I think I have ever experienced where I have felt this way.

imoo [/*]

Ditto GB. I don't thin I've ever suspected the accused's wife of murdering or even having knowledge before. But this is definitely a case that wreaks of possible she didn't as opposed to probable she didn't have anything to do with this.

JMOOC. :(

[strick10]

Originally posted by hinman
and she was contemplating suicide. [/*]

Eh? I missed that one hinman. Who's suicidal or was?

[Babes]

Hmmm the time Cesar took off - he's visiting some sites on Daily News? ( Assuming it is Cesar because Xtina said she's sleeping that time )

The Daily News’ Web site was viewed on a computer inside Laurean’s home at around 4 a.m. the day that he took off.

Whoever looked at the Web site looked at these two things: a story and attached documents.


http://onslowcrime.encblogs.com/?p=45#comments

[hinman]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


Ditto GB. I don't thin I've ever suspected the accused's wife of murdering or even having knowledge before. But this is definitely a case that wreaks of possible she didn't as opposed to probable she didn't have anything to do with this.

JMOOC. :( [/*]I think that the reason so many feel that it could go either way is because we do not have all the evidence.

At least I hope we don't have all the evidence, I do not think Christina was involved at least with the murder but I could see how so far she could not be eliminated as a suspect.

[Janz]

Originally posted by True2Blues



There is no doubt that Maria Lauterbach and her unborn child were killed in that house. If Christina didn't do it, and I'm sure a tiny child didn't do it, that leaves one person. One person with a very good motive.

If Christina can still claim to be deeply in love with her husband after that, then she must have known what he was capable of and liked it. Otherwise, she would be feeling like she had been married to a stranger. [/*]

:seeya: Good to see ya, True. I would be running for the hills with my child, certainly not on My Space with a" monster".

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by IvySterling
~snipped
I agree, in fact there's no conclusive proof as to when Maria was actually murdered, only speculation based on her cell activity.

However the Onslow LE seems to be going on, and taking Christina's word as to time of events :rolleyes: [/*]

All the public relations that was given to CSL during the PC has convinced me they need this witness at all cost.

It was nothing but a PR move imo by the ones that are going to try and convict CAL. Not one thing they divulged about CSL was necessary and it was highly unusual and totally unprofessional that a DA reveal private information to the media on a witness. So imo Hudson had a designed intent to do this where he knew the potential jury pool was listening. I truly think they are willing to overlook anything she does and wants to create the faux image before the trial.

It reminds me of Gloria Alred making her pitch for Amber Frey way before the trial began trying to polish Amber's image and credibility.

imoo

[Miss Behavin]

Well, IMO, stranger things have happened. Remember the Texas cadet murder case - Diane Zamora and David Graham? The other woman, the pact, the murder.... not comparing - just pointing out similarites imo. Like I stated - stranger things...:shrug:

[hinman]

Originally posted by strick10


Eh? I missed that one hinman. Who's suicidal or was? [/*]maybe I am wrong strick but I thought they said at the press conference that Christina wrote in her diary that she would commit suicide if it was not for her daughter.

[strick10]

Originally posted by Babes
Hmmm the time Cesar took off - he's visiting some sites on Daily News? ( Assuming it is Cesar because Xtina said she's sleeping that time )

[/*]

Visiting sites and writing letters Babe.......while she slept. It's been said that she woke up and found the letters at 0400 but it's also been said she found him at 0400 writing letters. :shrug:

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by Kathy*Rae


:seeya:

I know I'm many pages from catching up, but wanted to address this..

What if:

Maria and CL plan to meet up in El Paso to live happily ever after in CL's native land (thus the ticket purchase) He does say now that he loved her..

.... what happend if C'Tina got wind of "the plan" and killed Maria to stop her...?

Maybe C'Tina kidnapped Maria from her housing and she herself brought Maria to their house...?

Could CL be covering for the wife, trying to save his daughter from life w/o either parent?

:shrug: reaching....waiting for the real answers.. [/*]

I think it's possible.

JMO

That might fit with the way Mary was talking about Cesar perceiving things this weekend during her interview too. Maybe he was believing Maria wanted to be with him and she didn't.

I almost got the impression she might have been hinting at him ordering her to do something too. Did anyone else get that from the twelve minute interview? It could be just a quirky feeling I got too. :shrug: JMO

[sunstar]

Originally posted by Kathy*Rae


:seeya:

I know I'm many pages from catching up, but wanted to address this..

What if:

Maria and CL plan to meet up in El Paso to live happily ever after in CL's native land (thus the ticket purchase) He does say now that he loved her..

.... what happend if C'Tina got wind of "the plan" and killed Maria to stop her...?

Maybe C'Tina kidnapped Maria from her housing and she herself brought Maria to their house...?

Could CL be covering for the wife, trying to save his daughter from life w/o either parent?

:shrug: reaching....waiting for the real answers.. [/*]
LE seems to know the significance of El Paso although we don't, except it is on the way to Mexico or Las Vegas. :D CL would have to be a "saint" to be taking the blame (and possible LWOP sentence) for his wife's actions, but your question leads me to another one ~ if CL were only convicted of burying/burning Maria's body, what exactly is that crime and sentence?

[strick10]

Originally posted by hinman
maybe I am wrong strick but I thought they said at the press conference that Christina wrote in her diary that she would commit suicide if it was not for her daughter. [/*]

Thanks hinman......

[Janz]

Originally posted by hinman
maybe I am wrong strick but I thought they said at the press conference that Christina wrote in her diary that she would commit suicide if it was not for her daughter. [/*]

You are right, hinman. We were told by RS, in the press conference, that is why he felt pity for her........IMOO

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by IvySterling
~snipped
I agree, in fact there's no conclusive proof as to when Maria was actually murdered, only speculation based on her cell activity.

However the Onslow LE seems to be going on, and taking Christina's word as to time of events :rolleyes: [/*]

I'm sure they've done their homework and have verifications on some things OTHER than Christina's word. :rolleyes: back attcha.

Seems like A LOT of people think LE down there is just plain stupid and WE are so much smarter.

[strick10]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


I think it's possible.

JMO

That might fit with the way Mary was talking about Cesar perceiving things this weekend during her interview too. Maybe he was believing Maria wanted to be with him and she didn't.

I almost got the impression she might have been hinting at him ordering her to do something too. Did anyone else get that from the twelve minute interview? It could be just a quirky feeling I got too. :shrug: JMO [/*]

I got that impression as well. Kidnapping. Wonder how she knows Maria didn't want to be with CAL....through her friends or because Maria had said she was afraid of him. Is she admitting that there was a relationship but CAL was more into it than Maria? Crazy.

[Babes]

Blanca Laurean told one reporter that he didnt know the entire story - That means , Blanca knew something else? How come they arent talking to help his brother at least?

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by hinman
I think that the reason so many feel that it could go either way is because we do not have all the evidence.

At least I hope we don't have all the evidence, I do not think Christina was involved at least with the murder but I could see how so far she could not be eliminated as a suspect. [/*]

The AD said on Greta he is completely satisfied Christina was not involved in the murder or cover up. Paraphrased. I don't understand why posters don't believe him. I just don't.I remember when RS said about Christina if they had probable cause to charge her they would. Everyone at that time said if she is cleared by LE they would believe she is innocent. Who has to clear her now? I believe the police. No matter how it is twisted, it is what it is.

jmo

[sunstar]

Originally posted by Miss Behavin
Well, IMO, stranger things have happened. Remember the Texas cadet murder case - Diane Zamora and David Graham? The other woman, the pact, the murder.... not comparing - just pointing out similarites imo. Like I stated - stranger things...:shrug: [/*]
Oh yes I remember that case and watched the trials! And we know who wanted the "other woman" out of the way in that one.

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


All the public relations that was given to CSL during the PC has convinced me they need this witness at all cost.

It was nothing but a PR move imo by the ones that are going to try and convict CAL. Not one thing they divulged about CSL was necessary and it was highly unusual and totally unprofessional that a DA reveal private information to the media on a witness. So imo Hudson had a designed intent to do this where he knew the potential jury pool was listening. I truly think they are willing to overlook anything she does and wants to create the faux image before the trial.

It reminds me of Gloria Alred making her pitch for Amber Frey way before the trial began trying to polish Amber's image and credibility.

imoo [/*]

Odd how so few believe they were just being totally honest about Christina. That would be something, huh?

[Babes]

Originally posted by strick10


Visiting sites and writing letters Babe.......while she slept. It's been said that she woke up and found the letters at 0400 but it's also been said she found him at 0400 writing letters. :shrug: [/*]

Amazing isnt? Could it be that there are somebody else inside the house aside from Christina and Cesar?

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


Ditto GB. I don't thin I've ever suspected the accused's wife of murdering or even having knowledge before. But this is definitely a case that wreaks of possible she didn't as opposed to probable she didn't have anything to do with this.

JMOOC. :( [/*]

I think what she has is an ace in the hole. LE cannot tie the death down to a certain point in time. I am sure they will guesstimate it because only the killer knows when it happened.

They have nothing to refute her story with. It was done behind closed doors on Meadow Trail. I am sure they have found all sorts of evidence tying him to the cover up and burial but they cannot with 100% certainty say when this happened....that is why she remains standing and the ME will not be able to determine it either. In fact IIRC the "time of death" is left blank on the death certificate.

imoo

[hinman]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


Odd how so few believe they were just being totally honest about Christina. That would be something, huh? [/*]I do not understand it.

There were so many fights when the posters thought the military was wrong.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


Odd how so few believe they were just being totally honest about Christina. That would be something, huh? [/*]

I guess it's because we know they had to have a search warrant to go in and get what they needed and that someone more than likely had to turn her in for her contact with him from my POV.

I continue to be curious about whether she was asked by a federal investigator about having contact?

JMO:shrug:

[Babes]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


I'm sure they've done their homework and have verifications on some things OTHER than Christina's word. :rolleyes: back attcha.

Seems like A LOT of people think LE down there is just plain stupid and WE are so much smarter. [/*]

IMO it was FBI who did all the fine job and not the local LE

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


Odd how so few believe they were just being totally honest about Christina. That would be something, huh? [/*]

All the novella Hudson put out was so unnecessary SS. At least to me it was. Very strange thing for a DA to do when DAs are known for never revealing anything about their witnesses or their case.

moo

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


I guess it's because we know they had to have a search warrant to go in and get what they needed and that someone more than likely had to turn her in for her contact with him from my POV.

I continue to be curious about whether she was asked by a federal investigator about having contact?

JMO:shrug: [/*]

Well apparently when they found out about the contact she was again completely cooperative. And what they found (thus far) in the emails, her diaries, gave them no reason to suspect her.

As I said, that's good enough for me.

I just go back to what they may know and we don't. GB just posted they don't know the TOD and only CL and CSL were there. What IF CSL was out during that time? What IF she came home from the party and went out immediately? And what IF there are witnesses as to her demeanor, maybe later Cesar's demeanor, things they said, things they did? I can't make up any specifics, but get what I mean? Just back to this: what THEY know and WE don't.

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by Devotion


WHY?
Could be Love, but I wouldn't bet on it.
Could it be a guilty conscience?

We have all lost a loved-one in our lives and haven't been so weak as to consider suicide.....jmo [/*]

That's rather cold. :( There have been cases where people have lost a loved one and commit suicide. She not only "lost" a loved one but think of the horrible stigma attached, being connected with this case: HER husband, father of her child, murdering, burning and burying a woman he had cheated on her with.

People have commit suicide over far less, IMO.

If true, and I have no reason not to believe it, it's very sad.

[strick10]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


The AD said on Greta he is completely satisfied Christina was not involved in the murder or cover up. Paraphrased. I don't understand why posters don't believe him. I just don't.I remember when RS said about Christina if they had probable cause to charge her they would. Everyone at that time said if she is cleared by LE they would believe she is innocent. Who has to clear her now? I believe the police. No matter how it is twisted, it is what it is.

jmo [/*]

So when CAL or should I say if CAL decides to tell his side of the story he won't be believed? If he says so and so did this or what not couldnt that other person be charged? I don't mean CSL specifically I mean anyone. Just askin' cause I really don't know. TIA

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


I'm sure they've done their homework and have verifications on some things OTHER than Christina's word. :rolleyes: back attcha.
~snipped [/*]
So their homework verifies she was sleeping when Cesar wrote the letters and left...................oh wait, or was it she awoke and found the letters, no wait again, she tried to talk him into not leaving.

[strick10]

Originally posted by Babes


Amazing isnt? Could it be that there are somebody else inside the house aside from Christina and Cesar? [/*]

Could be babes. Could've been CAL and someone else on the 14th. I'm one of those that believes there are more than CAL involved. Could've been someone else there that morning when he booked but I doubt it.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by strick10


So when CAL or should I say if CAL decides to tell his side of the story he won't be believed? If he says so and so did this or what not couldnt that other person be charged? I don't mean CSL specifically I mean anyone. Just askin' cause I really don't know. TIA [/*]

His story will have to match what they already have. If it doesn't he won't be believed. It will have to match forensics and what they learned in their investigation. Since he doesn't know what they have he will have to be telling the truth. I don't think he can if he is lying. jmo

[Babes]

Originally posted by IvySterling

So their homework verifies she was sleeping when Cesar wrote the letters and left...................oh wait, or was it she awoke and found the letters, no wait again, she tried to talk him into not leaving. [/*]

Add this to their homework- somene is also visiting websites while She is sleeping and one is writing letters and while she's also trying to tell him not to leave at the same time - Oops what about them having an argument outside the house according to the neighbor?

[n/t]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I think what she has is an ace in the hole. LE cannot tie the death down to a certain point in time. I am sure they will guesstimate it because only the killer knows when it happened.

They have nothing to refute her story with. It was done behind closed doors on Meadow Trail. I am sure they have found all sorts of evidence tying him to the cover up and burial but they cannot with 100% certainty say when this happened....that is why she remains standing and the ME will not be able to determine it either. In fact IIRC the "time of death" is left blank on the death certificate.

imoo [/*]

Wouldn't forensics experts determine the approximate time? They may not get it to the exact time but they will be able to give a buffer. Between this time and that time etc.

I wouldn't discount it just yet. I believe we've come a long way with DNA and forensics. Look at some of the cold cases that were solved years later.

[sunstar]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


I guess it's because we know they had to have a search warrant to go in and get what they needed and that someone more than likely had to turn her in for her contact with him from my POV.

I continue to be curious about whether she was asked by a federal investigator about having contact?

JMO:shrug: [/*]
Wasn't it his own email to Sheriff Brown that would have traced it back to Amber's computer?

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by IvySterling

So their homework verifies she was sleeping when Cesar wrote the letters and left...................oh wait, or was it she awoke and found the letters, no wait again, she tried to talk him into not leaving. [/*]

And didn't she say that he denied the sexual contact with Maria and they only discussed the situation every couple of months yet Hudson said she is very much in love with him but was still angry because he had "cheated" on her.

So by Hudson saying that so casually does he know that CAL WAS cheating and having an affair with Maria? He seems to find that statement true and he would have to have evidence that CAL cheated on Christina with Maria I would think to come out and say that.

imoo

[Babes]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


His story will have to match what they already have. If it doesn't he won't be believed. It will have to match forensics and what they learned in their investigation. Since he doesn't know what they have he will have to be telling the truth. I don't think he can if he is lying. jmo [/*]

IMO, at this point of time, he possibly read the autopsy report - but if he's talking about "Proof" - maybe he has some "recorded conversation" with someone who possibly acknowledged their involvement on this?

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


All the novella Hudson put out was so unnecessary SS. At least to me it was. Very strange thing for a DA to do when DAs are known for never revealing anything about their witnesses or their case.

moo [/*]
I found it not only unnecessary, I found it unprofessional to offer up more information than was necessary. It was as if he wanted everyone to have sympathy for her..............well, any sympathy I COULD have had for her went out the door when it was revealed she had been communicating with Cesar and said nothing!

[strick10]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


That's rather cold. :( There have been cases where people have lost a loved one and commit suicide. She not only "lost" a loved one but think of the horrible stigma attached, being connected with this case: HER husband, father of her child, murdering, burning and burying a woman he had cheated on her with.

People have commit suicide over far less, IMO.

If true, and I have no reason not to believe it, it's very sad. [/*]

If she is sucidal I hope she's being medically attended to. Has it been said when she started the diary SS?

[Babes]

Originally posted by sunstar

Wasn't it his own email to Sheriff Brown that would have traced it back to Amber's computer? [/*]

They possibly checked LE's site to get Brown's email and it pointed to two IP address - one in Mexico and one in Jacksonville ( amber's house )

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by Babes


IMO, at this point of time, he possibly read the autopsy report - but if he's talking about "Proof" - maybe he has some "recorded conversation" with someone who possibly acknowledged their involvement on this? [/*]

I think what he meant when he said "proof"after being asked if he killed her, he meant they have to have proof. jmo

[Babes]

Originally posted by strick10


If she is sucidal I hope she's being medically attended to. Has it been said when she started the diary SS? [/*]

If she's suicidal, isnt that they should alert the Military about her possible suicidal attempts and she'll be given some time off work to rest or see some psychiatrist to make sure she's fit to be in the Military? How does these things work?

[strick10]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


His story will have to match what they already have. If it doesn't he won't be believed. It will have to match forensics and what they learned in their investigation. Since he doesn't know what they have he will have to be telling the truth. I don't think he can if he is lying. jmo [/*]

Thanks Squawk. Guess my bottom line is if CAL had help in any way that person(s) should be held accountable just as well. Let's hope CAL speaks the truth and if he's the only one on trial so be it but if there someone else well then. I imagine the LE has had a hard time w/ this case as there is really no witness that was present, very little evidence and so as far as we know one witness that knows more than the rest, if there are anymore witnesses.

[Janz]

Originally posted by IvySterling

I found it not only unnecessary, I found it unprofessional to offer up more information than was necessary. It was as if he wanted everyone to have sympathy for her..............well, any sympathy I COULD have had for her went out the door when it was revealed she had been communicating with Cesar and said nothing! [/*]

Just an observation on my part... but the statements made about Christina, remiinded me of the way LE treated Susan Smith, just before charging her with drowning her own children. IMOO

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by Babes


If she's suicidal, isnt that they should alert the Military about her possible suicidal attempts and she'll be given some time off work to rest or see some psychiatrist to make sure she's fit to be in the Military? How does these things work? [/*]

That was in January and it was said what changed her mind was her daughter. There is no proof of being suicidal now. imo

[Babes]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


I think what he meant when he said "proof"after being asked if he killed her, he meant they have to have proof. jmo [/*]

you maybe be right but there are so many interpretations of that "Proof" - and what we have is just pure opinions only not unless we will hear more from him

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by n/t


Wouldn't forensics experts determine the approximate time? They may not get it to the exact time but they will be able to give a buffer. Between this time and that time etc.

I wouldn't discount it just yet. I believe we've come a long way with DNA and forensics. Look at some of the cold cases that were solved years later. [/*]

I don't think so or the ME would have put the time of death on the death certificate. It will remain unknown imo due to the charring and vast decomposition of the body. They don't have a wide time window to work with. Maria was in Jax buying a bus ticket around 5 pm and it would take approximately 45 minutes if she went straight back to his house after then and we don't even know that she did. CAL said she came back later in the evening....not right back.

So imo no it will not be determined. They have come a long way but they aren't miracle workers. If the body had been discovered within hours or even a day ....maybe but not after a month.

Captain Sutherland has always said that CSL came in from the party around 7 pm.

ETA: Yes it will be a guesstimate like they did in the Westerfield case and will have a range of days imo.



JMO

[AlohaRainbow]

Originally posted by hinman
and she was contemplating suicide. [/*]
to be technical, we know that she *wrote* that she was contemplating suicide

(as anniebean would say... just sayin' ) )

[sunstar]

Originally posted by Babes


They possibly checked LE's site to get Brown's email and it pointed to two IP address - one in Mexico and one in Jacksonville ( amber's house ) [/*]
Yes, that's what I was thinking of. The email he sent led LE to the Internet cafe he was using and the communications through myspace.

[Babes]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


That was in January and it was said what changed her mind was her daughter. There is no proof of being suicidal now. imo [/*]

IMO - i think she going to be more suicidal now that Cesar just told the people that he loved Maria.

[n/t]

Originally posted by IvySterling

I found it not only unnecessary, I found it unprofessional to offer up more information than was necessary. It was as if he wanted everyone to have sympathy for her..............well, any sympathy I COULD have had for her went out the door when it was revealed she had been communicating with Cesar and said nothing! [/*]

I totally agree with you. She's not a suspect so why the need to defend her? It was very bizarre to say the least. They may have had good intentions to do so but in my opinion they made publice speculation worse than it was.

We can see on that on this board. People questioning why all the sympathy towards her?

IMO

[strick10]

Originally posted by Babes


If she's suicidal, isnt that they should alert the Military about her possible suicidal attempts and she'll be given some time off work to rest or see some psychiatrist to make sure she's fit to be in the Military? How does these things work? [/*]

I'm sure the MC is aware of he entry into her diary regarding suicide. I'm confident she will be offered the medical help she needs. Unfit for the military under something like this can only be assessed by the docs. Only they can recommend as to whether she's unfit or able to continue in service.

[hinman]

Originally posted by AlohaRainbow

to be technical, we know that she *wrote* that she was contemplating suicide

(as anniebean would say... just sayin' ) ) [/*]Correct.

[Babes]

Originally posted by n/t


I totally agree with you. She's not a suspect so why the need to defend her? It was very bizarre to say the least. They may have had good intentions to do so but in my opinion they made publice speculation worse than it was.

We can see on that on this board. People questioning why all the sympathy towards her?

IMO [/*]

ITA too.

No sympathy for Christina here - Never - if she would like Cesar to be apprehended - she told LE that he's asking for money and they will set-up a trap for him.

[Janz]

Originally posted by strick10


I'm sure the MC is aware of he entry into her diary regarding suicide. I'm confident she will be offered the medical help she needs. Unfit for the military under something like this can only be assessed by the docs. Only they can recommend as to whether she's unfit or able to continue in service. [/*]

Thanks strick. I wonder what the Marine rules are regarding coresponding with a deserter and one wanted on federal charges, especially since CSL is a Marine herself?

[n/t]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I don't think so or the ME would have put the time of death on the death certificate. It will remain unknown imo due to the charring and vast decomposition of the body. They don't have a wide time window to work with. Maria was in Jax buying a bus ticket around 5 pm and it would take approximately 45 minutes if she went straight back to his house after then and we don't even know that she did. CAL said she came back later in the evening....not right back.

So imo no it will not be determined. They have come a long way but they aren't miracle workers. If the body had been discovered within hours or even a day ....maybe but not after a month.

Captain Sutherland has always said that CSL came in from the party around 7 pm.



JMO [/*]

You may be right. I hadn't thought of the delay in finding her body.

[AlohaRainbow]

Originally posted by strick10


If she is sucidal I hope she's being medically attended to. Has it been said when she started the diary SS? [/*]
good question, strick. when did christina start her diary? has she always kept a diary? did she start it only after cesar left?

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


His story will have to match what they already have. If it doesn't he won't be believed. It will have to match forensics and what they learned in their investigation. Since he doesn't know what they have he will have to be telling the truth. I don't think he can if he is lying. jmo [/*]

Good evening to you all!! I have been reading and trying to catch up with the latest....What desturbed me most were the " Bleeding Hearts" who all of a sudden felt Cesar was " Pittiful" and remorseful..just by looking at the video tapes of his encarcewration in Mexico..He lost weight, ( better than dead), he looks bewildred ( could be he's new to this media thing), his eyes speak to them,..I am sorry, this young man is in his early 20's, and not a career felon, nor a innate kid who doesn't care about anything other than the moment!

Having said that, Cessar and his wife have alot of "Splaining" to do, as there is absolutely no way Maria's disappearance, the activites in the Lauren's household post death, and the final flight to Mexico by Cesare..says it ALL..This young man ( Marine) and his wife did something very very horrendous, then proceeded to cover it up ..only to get caught up in their activities to hide, their complicity..and eventually Cesar fled the area!..Christine, absolutely knew what happened..and may very well have been involved..and for sure involved with the cover-up..But we must not lose sight of the fact that these two kids ( early 20's) acted like selfish people..and did not think of the consequences...However, given their station in life ( working for the Armed Forces) SHOULD HAVE been more informed than the " Street Knowledge" of youngsters in general society..driven by greed, instant gratification drive..and NO CONSCIENCE of their deeds.

I am sorry, but what was seen in Cesar's eye's in that video, was an exhausted man who has no idea of survival outside of being taken care of by either parents, or in his case, the Govt. Perks!..In other words, he and Christina, probably have not any idea of how to take responsibilty for anything...Such a sorry state of affairs!

LMS:(

[strick10]

Originally posted by Janz


Thanks strick. I wonder what the Marine rules are regarding coresponding with a deserter and one wanted on federal charges, especially since CSL is a Marine herself? [/*]

IMO she has broken the code of conduct. She should've spoken up to the MC that she had been in contact w/ CAL. IMO she aided and abeited his return to the MC by saying nothing. I will look for the order tomorrow so I can square this away and give a straight answer as the above is only MO.

[Janz]

Originally posted by strick10


IMO she has broken the code of conduct. She should've spoken up to the MC that she had been in contact w/ CAL. IMO she aided and abeited his return to the MC by saying nothing. I will look for the order tomorrow so I can square this away and give a straight answer as the above is only MO. [/*]

TY strick, I`ll be looking for your post, since INTREGITY seems to be the word today.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


I think what he meant when he said "proof"after being asked if he killed her, he meant they have to have proof. jmo [/*]


:seeya: Hi squawk, Wasn't he speaking in Spanish when he made those remarks?

[strick10]

Originally posted by Janz


TY strick, I`ll be looking for your post, since INTREGITY seems to be the word today. [/*]

This Marine abides and breaths by the MC's Codes of Conduct.....;)

[n/t]

Originally posted by strick10


This Marine abides and breaths by the MC's Codes of Conduct.....;) [/*]

:patriot:

[Janz]

Originally posted by strick10


This Marine abides and breaths by the MC's Codes of Conduct.....;) [/*]


:patriot:

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by bkwits



:seeya: Hi squawk, Wasn't he speaking in Spanish when he made those remarks? [/*]

Oh, I don't know. I only heard him say proof.

:seeya:

[Babes]

Originally posted by sunstar

Yes, that's what I was thinking of. The email he sent led LE to the Internet cafe he was using and the communications through myspace. [/*]

Yes. Websites are monitored by the IP address. It is also monitored where the previous site is before it changed to their website. I do have these monitoring features on my site - These are my guess that's why LE/FBI knew other sites he visited as well prior to checking the LE's site to get Ed Brown's email address.

I think this is the site he went to check brown's email address:
http://www.co.onslow.nc.us/departments.aspx?id=206

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by Janz


TY strick, I`ll be looking for your post, since INTREGITY seems to be the word today. [/*]

:seeya: Janz

strick will certainly be able to provide better information regarding a military member assisting or aiding another military member from being apprehended, etc. but I just quickly found this information:

Can my friends and family get in trouble for helping me while I’m in a deserter status?

Yes!

According to the US Code, Title 18, Part I, Chapter 67, Paragraph 1381, there are significant penalties that may be levied on those who assist deserters, as noted below:

“Whoever entices or procures, or attempts or endeavors to entice or procure any person in the Armed forces of the United States, or who has been recruited for service therein, to desert therefrom, or aids any such person in deserting or in attempting to desert from such service, or:

Whoever harbors, conceals, protects, or assists any such person who may have deserted from such service, knowing him to have deserter therefrom, or refuses to give up and deliver such person on the demand of any officer authorized to receive him:

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.”

http://hqinet001.hqmc.usmc.mil/pp&o/PS/psl/corrections/absenteeCollection.asp

[strick10]

Wow, the MCO covering the legalities of deserters etc. is huge so I definately won't post the link tonight. I'll post tomorrow when I can reference a page # so everyone doesn't have to read the entire thing.

I'm out folks. Thanks much for a fantastic board today. I've learned a thing or two. Y'all be safe and good night.:seeya:

[sunstar]

Originally posted by Kathy*Rae
Snipped for space



:read:

Good question!

Desecration of a corpse??

I would venture to say a heck of a lot shorter than a sentence and conviction for murdering a woman and unborn child. [/*]
I think that is what it's called, but what I was really wondering is if he were only convicted of that, would he necessarily permanently lose custody of his child? I'm thinking of this in terms of what he put in the note before he left and some thoughts that he took off so that their child would at least have one parent, Christina.

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by strick10
Wow, the MCO covering the legalities of deserters etc. is huge so I definately won't post the link tonight. I'll post tomorrow when I can reference a page # so everyone doesn't have to read the entire thing.

I'm out folks. Thanks much for a fantastic board today. I've learned a thing or two. Y'all be safe and good night.:seeya: [/*]
:seeya:

[sunstar]

Originally posted by strick10
Wow, the MCO covering the legalities of deserters etc. is huge so I definately won't post the link tonight. I'll post tomorrow when I can reference a page # so everyone doesn't have to read the entire thing.

I'm out folks. Thanks much for a fantastic board today. I've learned a thing or two. Y'all be safe and good night.:seeya: [/*]
And thank you for all your contributions! I hope you have a good night! :seeya:

[strick10]

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny


:seeya: Janz

strick will certainly be able to provide better information regarding a military member assisting or aiding another military member from being apprehended, etc. but I just quickly found this information:

Can my friends and family get in trouble for helping me while I’m in a deserter status?

Yes!

According to the US Code, Title 18, Part I, Chapter 67, Paragraph 1381, there are significant penalties that may be levied on those who assist deserters, as noted below:

“Whoever entices or procures, or attempts or endeavors to entice or procure any person in the Armed forces of the United States, or who has been recruited for service therein, to desert therefrom, or aids any such person in deserting or in attempting to desert from such service, or:

Whoever harbors, conceals, protects, or assists any such person who may have deserted from such service, knowing him to have deserter therefrom, or refuses to give up and deliver such person on the demand of any officer authorized to receive him:

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.”

http://hqinet001.hqmc.usmc.mil/pp&o/PS/psl/corrections/absenteeCollection.asp [/*]
Lynn G...what can I say :rose: This is coming from Headquarters Marine Corps so there is not much to argue here. Thanks!

[Janz]

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny


:seeya: Janz

strick will certainly be able to provide better information regarding a military member assisting or aiding another military member from being apprehended, etc. but I just quickly found this information:

Can my friends and family get in trouble for helping me while I’m in a deserter status?

Yes!

According to the US Code, Title 18, Part I, Chapter 67, Paragraph 1381, there are significant penalties that may be levied on those who assist deserters, as noted below:

“Whoever entices or procures, or attempts or endeavors to entice or procure any person in the Armed forces of the United States, or who has been recruited for service therein, to desert therefrom, or aids any such person in deserting or in attempting to desert from such service, or:

Whoever harbors, conceals, protects, or assists any such person who may have deserted from such service, knowing him to have deserter therefrom, or refuses to give up and deliver such person on the demand of any officer authorized to receive him:

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.”

http://hqinet001.hqmc.usmc.mil/pp&o/PS/psl/corrections/absenteeCollection.asp [/*]

Thank you so much Lynn, Hmmm, just guessing here, but don`t think this qualifies a being a "Stellar" marine. JMO. I need to study the wording on this.

:seeya:

[Janz]

Originally posted by strick10
Wow, the MCO covering the legalities of deserters etc. is huge so I definately won't post the link tonight. I'll post tomorrow when I can reference a page # so everyone doesn't have to read the entire thing.

I'm out folks. Thanks much for a fantastic board today. I've learned a thing or two. Y'all be safe and good night.:seeya: [/*]

Goodnight Strick!

:seeya:

[sunstar]

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny



Whoever harbors, conceals, protects, or assists any such person who may have deserted from such service, knowing him to have deserter therefrom, or refuses to give up and deliver such person on the demand of any officer authorized to receive him:

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.”

http://hqinet001.hqmc.usmc.mil/pp&o/PS/psl/corrections/absenteeCollection.asp [/*]
Thanks so much Lynn :) I think this is where the contents of the emails would be important. What was she saying to him in them except that she wouldn't send him money (which attorney told her would be a crime), but I remember another part was a possible return to or meeting in Las Vegas. So was she trying to get him to turn himself in or telling him what LE knew?

[Jan Powell]

I'm going to be out for awhile, I'm having by-pass surgery tomorrow. By the time I get back to post I hope all of you and LE have solved my four biggest mysteries:

Going to someone's house you have filed sexual assault charges against and from CL's side, loving someone who has done that to you?

If CL fights extradition (and I think he will because apparently it's federal he fears) within the next 60 days when the prosecution put on their case in Mexico, how do they prove it was CL and not CSL since there was no witness?

(If the Mexican Ministeries are interrogating a Mexican National as reported in Housley in the House;) will the Mexican government force the US LE agencies to try him as an Article 4 and not extradite him?

Do they (wait as not to muddy the water more) charge CSL after the extradition hearing is over?

[sunstar]

Originally posted by Kathy*Rae


:punch:

Yeah, I was reaching......guess I forgot if he didn't murder Maria, he'd still be home with his/their child eventually...or if the reverse were true she would have C'Tina...duh


sorry 'bout that.
:chicken: [/*]
Oh don't be sorry! It was something to think about. :) It seems from what he said when arrested his main fear is the MC not state LE, so it's interesting to know what different charges could be brought.

[Devotion]

Originally posted by AlohaRainbow

good question, strick. when did christina start her diary?
has she always kept a diary?

did she start it only after cesar left?.... [/*]

Very good questions....Let me add one more question.
IF the diary was started after Cesar left, why?

To remember details for the trial, future book or did her attorney suggest it for some reason?....jmo

[flipflop]

Originally posted by Jan Powell
I'm going to be out for awhile, I'm having by-pass surgery tomorrow. By the time I get back to post I hope all of you and LE have solved my four biggest mysteries[/*]

Gee whiz Jan. Good luck to you. What a brave person you are. All I would be capable of is sniffling and feeling sorry for myself. I will say prayers for you. :(

[Janz]

Originally posted by Jan Powell
I'm going to be out for awhile, I'm having by-pass surgery tomorrow. By the time I get back to post I hope all of you and LE have solved my four biggest mysteries:

Going to someone's house you have filed sexual assault charges against and from CL's side, loving someone who has done that to you?

If CL fights extradition (and I think he will because apparently it's federal he fears) within the next 60 days when the prosecution put on their case in Mexico, how do they prove it was CL and not CSL since there was no witness?

(If the Mexican Ministeries are interrogating a Mexican National as reported in Housley in the House;) will the Mexican government force the US LE agencies to try him as an Article 4 and not extradite him?

Do they (wait as not to muddy the water more) charge CSL after the extradition hearing is over? [/*]

Jan, Godspeed to you!! We`ll be watching for your return!!

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by strick10
Wow, the MCO covering the legalities of deserters etc. is huge so I definately won't post the link tonight. I'll post tomorrow when I can reference a page # so everyone doesn't have to read the entire thing.

I'm out folks. Thanks much for a fantastic board today. I've learned a thing or two. Y'all be safe and good night.:seeya: [/*]

If it's the 342 page pdf file, I just posted it on our links thread. Just check it out for me, to make sure that's the correct document. Thanks again! :seeya:

[sunstar]

Originally posted by Jan Powell
I'm going to be out for awhile, I'm having by-pass surgery tomorrow. By the time I get back to post I hope all of you and LE have solved my four biggest mysteries:

Going to someone's house you have filed sexual assault charges against and from CL's side, loving someone who has done that to you?

[/*]
My thoughts and prayers for you and hurry back! :) I have no clue about the other questions but this one doesn't make any sense for him to "love" her after she's filed charges which could ruin his career, but for all we know she could've gone to his house to say she was sorry she'd done it and was going to leave.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by IvySterling

So their homework verifies she was sleeping when Cesar wrote the letters and left...................oh wait, or was it she awoke and found the letters, no wait again, she tried to talk him into not leaving. [/*]

Or she might have been dictating to Cesar for his letter right from the JDN site. :shrug:

Who knows? That's about the time someone was taking a little lookie-loo at JDN IIRC.

jmo:(

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by sherryhefner
My prayers for Jan as she faces surgery and recovery.....
God Bless You!:rose: [/*]

Ditto Jan, best wishes on your surgery. :rose:

We'll keep trying to figure it out and waiting for your return.

jmo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Jan Powell
I'm going to be out for awhile, I'm having by-pass surgery tomorrow. By the time I get back to post I hope all of you and LE have solved my four biggest mysteries:

Going to someone's house you have filed sexual assault charges against and from CL's side, loving someone who has done that to you?

If CL fights extradition (and I think he will because apparently it's federal he fears) within the next 60 days when the prosecution put on their case in Mexico, how do they prove it was CL and not CSL since there was no witness?

(If the Mexican Ministries are interrogating a Mexican National as reported in Housley in the House;) will the Mexican government force the US LE agencies to try him as an Article 4 and not extradite him?

Do they (wait as not to muddy the water more) charge CSL after the extradition hearing is over? [/*]

Oh my goodness Jan. I wish you much success on your surgery tomorrow. I will be thinking of you and you have my prayers.

imoo:seeya:

[hinman]

Originally posted by Kathy*Rae


:punch:

Yeah, I was reaching......guess I forgot if he didn't murder Maria, he'd still be home with his/their child eventually...or if the reverse were true she would have C'Tina...duh


sorry 'bout that.
:chicken: [/*]No need to be sorry. It was a good thought and one never knows what someone is thinking so he could of possibly of thought that way.

Did that make any sense?

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Devotion


Very good questions....Let me add one more question.
IF the diary was started after Cesar left, why?

To remember details for the trial, future book or did her attorney suggest it for some reason?....jmo [/*]

Okay did anyone notice this besides me when Hudson was commenting on Christina's woes?

He said it was obvious to him that Christina was torn by her love she has for her husband and angry with him for CHEATING on her. Hmmmmmmm was this a misspeak on Hudson's part or does he know that CAL did indeed have a willing affair with Maria. It sounds to me like he knows they did.

imoo

[hinman]

Originally posted by sherryhefner
My prayers for Jan as she faces surgery and recovery.....
God Bless You!:rose: [/*]:rose: I will be praying along with you,

[flipflop]

Sometimes I wonder if it could be as simple as this.

Maria and CL had an affair. They were both kind of into each other, for awhile. Eventually, Maria wanted more after she turns up pregnant. (or before)

CL doesn't want more. But he can't shake her and starts getting worried. Christina does/doesn't find out. His "safe" life is still in jepardy.

Maria, realizing he has no intentions of leaving Christina, decides to file rape charges. To "show" him. Then feels bad and takes back one rape charge. (feel free to correct me)

CL is furious over the rape allegation. He knows the baby is his after he denied any involvement.

He thinks up a plan. He tells Maria they should run off together. That he will leave his wife. He tells Maria you go buy your ticket...and I will go buy mine. That way we aren't seen together. Meet at my house, Christina will not be there.

He never planned to buy his ticket. He just wants her buying a ticket on file. Maria returns to CL's house and he kills her.

I'm sure I have left loopholes. I appreciate any and all help.

[martha]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Okay did anyone notice this besides me when Hudson was commenting on Christina's woes?

He said it was obvious to him that Christina was torn by her love she has for her husband and angry with him for CHEATING on her. Hmmmmmmm was this a misspeak on Hudson's part or does he know that CAL did indeed have a willing affair with Maria. It sounds to me like he knows they did.

imoo [/*] I may be bad wrong but I really thing cl and ml had a willing affair. things just don;t add up in my mind unless the were having an affair all along. just saying. jmho I pray we all know the truth one day. it sounds like her mother knew some things she had not spoke about yet. i pray the truth will come out and the familys in this can get some peace. noone will ever for get ml and her baby:rose:

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Babes


you maybe be right but there are so many interpretations of that "Proof" - and what we have is just pure opinions only not unless we will hear more from him [/*]

You are right. I sure didn't interpret that way. I think he is saying he wants to know where the proof is that he committed this crime.

Like he told SB he knows they are going to convict him on no evidence. I think that was what he was referring to......

moo

[sunstar]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Okay did anyone notice this besides me when Hudson was commenting on Christina's woes?

He said it was obvious to him that Christina was torn by her love she has for her husband and angry with him for CHEATING on her. Hmmmmmmm was this a misspeak on Hudson's part or does he know that CAL did indeed have a willing affair with Maria. It sounds to me like he knows they did.

imoo [/*]
Oh I noticed it! I would be angry if I knew he'd murdered a woman in my house and buried and burned in in my yard and I sure wouldn't be feeling any love for him even if he was the father of my child. :)

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by martha
I may be bad wrong but I really thing cl and ml had a willing affair. things just don;t add up in my mind unless the were having an affair all along. just saying. jmho I pray we all know the truth one day. it sounds like her mother knew some things she had not spoke about yet. i pray the truth will come out and the family's in this can get some peace. no one will ever forget ml and her baby:rose: [/*]

Well I am so glad to see you here posting Martha. I was getting very worried. I know how sick you have been lately.

Hang on ...the doctor is gonna fix you right up!

I think you are so right Martha.

imoo:seeya:

[hinman]

Originally posted by martha
I may be bad wrong but I really thing cl and ml had a willing affair. things just don;t add up in my mind unless the were having an affair all along. just saying. jmho I pray we all know the truth one day. it sounds like her mother knew some things she had not spoke about yet. i pray the truth will come out and the familys in this can get some peace. noone will ever for get ml and her baby:rose: [/*]:rose: Hope you are doing OK martha.

[martha]

Hi GB had another bad day but I am going to ok go thur to doc I am way behind have not got to read much today. maybe tomorrow i can catch up ha My 2 grand children got in from the band trip to texas had to listen all about the trip. they had a very good time i am glad they or home and off the road. I am going to bed so i will read tomorrow. take care hope hubby had a good time today. o/t but just had to say hi good night everyone. keep posting.:rose:

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by martha
Hi GB had another bad day but I am going to ok go thur to doc I am way behind have not got to read much today. maybe tomorrow i can catch up ha My 2 grand children got in from the band trip to texas had to listen all about the trip. they had a very good time i am glad they or home and off the road. I am going to bed so i will read tomorrow. take care hope hubby had a good time today. o/t but just had to say hi good night everyone. keep posting.:rose: [/*]
Nite Martha :seeya:

[flipflop]

Originally posted by sherryhefner



Sounds good except maybe she went to buy her ticket.....before he can go to get his, Xtina comes home, furious with him that he's not at the party and shes been waiting. Maria comes back to his house and Xtina realizes the plan and boom, crime of passion.

Or.....Maria returns with her bus ticket. CL is gathering baby clothes, things they'll need...when Xtina returns and boom, crime of passion.

Who knows? But at least you started somewhere..... [/*]

Ok, are you going on the assumption that Christina may have killed her? I have not ruled that out. ;)

ETA I'll just have to alter my theory. :)

[Janz]

Good night martha. Maybe soon we will have some answers!

[martha]

Originally posted by sherryhefner



Sounds good except maybe she went to buy her ticket.....before he can go to get his, Xtina comes home, furious with him that he's not at the party and shes been waiting. Maria comes back to his house and Xtina realizes the plan and boom, crime of passion.

Or.....Maria returns with her bus ticket. CL is gathering baby clothes, things they'll need...when Xtina returns and boom, crime of passion.

Who knows? But at least you started somewhere..... [/*] i think you might be on the right track her as i have said before. I am thinking along these lines too.:rose:

[Jan Powell]

Thanks to all of you for your well wishes and prayers. I really appreciate it. I'm ready to get it over with because I want to have a life again.

The actual law part this case has finally reached is fascinating to me. I hope there is a factual and reliable source that keep us informed and it's not some secret between the US and Mexican governments.

Thanks again for your kind thoughts.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by martha
Hi GB had another bad day but I am going to ok go thur to doc I am way behind have not got to read much today. maybe tomorrow i can catch up ha My 2 grand children got in from the band trip to texas had to listen all about the trip. they had a very good time i am glad they or home and off the road. I am going to bed so i will read tomorrow. take care hope hubby had a good time today. o/t but just had to say hi good night everyone. keep posting.:rose: [/*]

Good night. Get some rest.

I will check on you in the morning.:seeya:

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by IvySterling

Nite Martha :seeya: [/*]

Good night Martha and best wishes for a speedy recovery. Don't wait til Thursday unless you have to sweet lady.

I am open to more and more as far as the theories go since hearing Cesar say he loved her. I am not discounting she was wanting to be done with him either in those theories.

But any way you look at it, something went terribly wrong.

JMO:(

[hinman]

Originally posted by flipflop
Sometimes I wonder if it could be as simple as this.

Maria and CL had an affair. They were both kind of into each other, for awhile. Eventually, Maria wanted more after she turns up pregnant. (or before)

CL doesn't want more. But he can't shake her and starts getting worried. Christina does/doesn't find out. His "safe" life is still in jepardy.

Maria, realizing he has no intentions of leaving Christina, decides to file rape charges. To "show" him. Then feels bad and takes back one rape charge. (feel free to correct me)

CL is furious over the rape allegation. He knows the baby is his after he denied any involvement.

He thinks up a plan. He tells Maria they should run off together. That he will leave his wife. He tells Maria you go buy your ticket...and I will go buy mine. That way we aren't seen together. Meet at my house, Christina will not be there.

He never planned to buy his ticket. He just wants her buying a ticket on file. Maria returns to CL's house and he kills her.

I'm sure I have left loopholes. I appreciate any and all help. [/*]It could have went down that way. I wish I knew why Maria went to his house.

Things just do not add up for me. She is uncomfortable enough around him to use her MPO a couple times for work reason.

Yet she is not uncomfortable to swing by his house. To me anything is possible in this case.

[hinman]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


Good night Martha and best wishes for a speedy recovery. Don't wait til Thursday unless you have to sweet lady.

I am open to more and more as far as the theories go since hearing Cesar say he loved her. I am not discounting she was wanting to be done with him either in those theories.

But any way you look at it, something went terribly wrong.

JMO:( [/*]That was an odd statement wasn't it. Who knows maybe it ment nothing, I doubt it though,

[martha]

I am so sorry I missed all the good post today but GOD willing i will be back tomorrow. thanks all for the good wishes. Jan I will say a prayer for you tonight and hope everything goes very good for you tomorrow. It is good to have such good friends. yes something went so very wrong that day and maybe as time goes by we will find out more about it. they were all very young and sometime we make bad dis when we or so young. :rose:

[flipflop]

Originally posted by hinman
It could have went down that way. I wish I knew why Maria went to his house.

Things just do not add up for me. She is uncomfortable enough around him to use her MPO a couple times for work reason.

Yet she is not uncomfortable to swing by his house. To me anything is possible in this case. [/*]

I am trying to think if it was me. First off, a problem with my theory is this..counting on Christina not being there, while I killed her. How can you be sure she wouldn't come home for some reason? You can't.

To be certain someone, who is in love with you, would buy a ticket, to be together? I could be sure of that. And telling them to meet me at my house, I could rely on that as well.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by hinman
That was an odd statement wasn't it. Who knows maybe it ment nothing, I doubt it though, [/*]

All I know I don't feel it was planned...........they asked him and at that time when he probably felt vulnerable those words just tumbled out.

I think they were truthful.

I have always felt that the real truth in this case and their true relationship has been right below the surface waiting to be told.

imoo

[hinman]

Originally posted by flipflop


I am trying to think if it was me. First off, a problem with my theory is this..counting on Christina not being there, while I killed her. How can you be sure she wouldn't come home for some reason? You can't.

To be certain someone, who is in love with you would buy a ticket to be together? I could be sure of that. And telling them to meed me at my house, I could rely on that as well. [/*]Good thoughts.

Here is where it gets tricky for me. He surely had to worry about his little girl coming home also. I would say he would not want her to see the body or blood or anything which could be why it went down in the garage.

Of course crime of passion might mean he did not think of any of that and I am making this all more difficult:D

[hinman]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


All I know I don't feel it was planned...........they asked him and at that time when he probably felt vulnerable those words just tumbled out.

I think they were truthful.

I have always felt that the real truth in this case and their true relationship has been right below the surface waiting to be told.

imoo [/*]I have been against that idea, but geeze why else would he say that.

1. Maria was done with him and he was furious.

2. They had a relationship and he snapped about something

3. He has been reading message boards and came up with the idea.

[sunstar]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


All I know I don't feel it was planned...........they asked him and at that time when he probably felt vulnerable those words just tumbled out.

I think they were truthful.

I have always felt that the real truth in this case and their true relationship has been right below the surface waiting to be told.

imoo [/*]
I too think it was totally unscripted and something that just came out at the moment, probably the way he felt about her. There's probably a lot we don't know yet about the relationship and for sure we don't know what she was doing at his house that evening.

[flipflop]

Originally posted by hinman
I have been against that idea, but geeze why else would he say that.

1. Maria was done with him and he was furious.

2. They had a relationship and he snapped about something

3. He has been reading message boards and came up with the idea. [/*]

To address your number 1, I don't feel Maria was done with him. I think she was mad he wasn't going to "be" with her.

Number 2, that something, I think, is that his wife was going to find out. Then he denied it.

Number 3 lol. :)

[hinman]

Originally posted by flipflop


To address your number 1, I don't feel Maria was done with him. I think she was mad he wasn't going to "be" with her.

Number 2, that something, I think, is that his wife was going to find out. Then he denied it.

Number 3 lol. :) [/*] :tongue: I had to have three reasons it just made my post sound better.

Far fetched though yo never know.

[Janz]

Originally posted by sherryhefner
Just a couple weeks after this all went down, I theorized that Maria was hiding in the garage and Xtina figured it out and found her (maybe because her car was in the garage?) Remember, its winter time and dark outside early. If it was 7 pm or so, maybe Xtina came home with the baby asleep. She can tell something is up...."She's here isn't she...where is she? Her car is out there....tell me where she is? She's in the garage isn't she?"
Boom, crime of passion.

Of course, I can't discount that CL did it but I do sincerely feel (in the guts, heart, or somewhere around those parts) that the wife knew something.....or did it....or helped....or hid it--something. [/*]

IA........Love is not that blind!

[hinman]

Originally posted by sherryhefner
Just a couple weeks after this all went down, I theorized that Maria was hiding in the garage and Xtina figured it out and found her (maybe because her car was in the garage?) Remember, its winter time and dark outside early. If it was 7 pm or so, maybe Xtina came home with the baby asleep. She can tell something is up...."She's here isn't she...where is she? Her car is out there....tell me where she is? She's in the garage isn't she?"
Boom, crime of passion.

Of course, I can't discount that CL did it but I do sincerely feel (in the guts, heart, or somewhere around those parts) that the wife knew something.....or did it....or helped....or hid it--something. [/*]I have seen that theory before could of been yours. It is a possibility.

[sunstar]

Originally posted by flipflop


To address your number 1, I don't feel Maria was done with him. I think she was mad he wasn't going to "be" with her.

[/*]
That could be what led her to return to his house that night, like he said she was agitated or something along those lines. In every lie there's some elements of truth so I'm just reading between the lines of what he left in the note.

[hinman]

Originally posted by sunstar

That could be what led her to return to his house that night, like he said she was agitated or something along those lines. In every lie there's some elements of truth so I'm just reading between the lines of what he left in the note. [/*]But why say I loved her. If he was done with her.

[hinman]

Originally posted by sherryhefner
Has it been reported that the weapon was a crowbar? [/*]It has been reported but no confirmation,

[Janz]

Originally posted by sherryhefner
Has it been reported that the weapon was a crowbar? [/*]

LE has refused to confirm what they believe the murder weapon is, only that they have and are testing what they say is the weapon. JMO.

[sunstar]

Originally posted by hinman
But why say I loved her. If he was done with her. [/*]
He might not have told her he was done with her in those words, but may be that he couldn't leave his wife "just yet". It's only speculation, but a lot of times there will be promises made that just can't be fulfilled because the guy wants both women in his life. He also couldn't admit to a relationship with Maria because of the adultery charges he could face with the MC.

[hinman]

Originally posted by sunstar

He might not have told her he was done with her in those words, but may be that he couldn't leave his wife "just yet". It's only speculation, but a lot of times there will be promises made that just can't be fulfilled because the guy wants both women in his life. He also couldn't admit to a relationship with Maria because of the adultery charges he could face with the MC. [/*]Thanks sunstar. They are all very good points.

Sometimes I need it spelled out for me I have a hard time understanding some of this.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by hinman
I have been against that idea, but geeze why else would he say that.

1. Maria was done with him and he was furious.

2. They had a relationship and he snapped about something

3. He has been reading message boards and came up with the idea. [/*]

Could be.......

But if she was through with him then why give him the time of day and come to his home where she knew he would be alone?

I think if he did this he did snap. I don't think he will have any violence in his past history......It had to be a tense atmosphere even if they were meeting secretly......I mean he has Wanda, Ms. Nosy Nose, always lurking and his woman is over at his home and his wife could be coming back at any second. Maybe when Maria came back later in the evening he kept telling her she had to leave or all hell was going to break loose when CSL walked in that door and caught them. Maybe that really ticked Maria off and she thought he was putting Christina's feelings before hers and they just got into a shouting match and he was unable to control his urge to strike out due to the entire sordid mess. Now I am just speculating of course but sometimes if people have had to suppress stressful things even the slightest thing can ignite an eruption that they normally wouldn't do.

Now I wouldn't be surprised if he did read MBs but mostly I think he searched for info on the case.

By saying he loved Maria I think he has drawn the line in the sand concerning Christina and all gloves are off now. JMO THO.

[RiverWalk]

To the folks that live in Jacksonville and I have no clue about your soil/digging, etc.

How long would it take you to dig a grave/hole for Maria?

I planted a tree today in my backyard. It took 2 guys almost 6 hours to dig a hole 3' x 3' because we have clay soil = gumbo = black unworkable chit.

Don't know about J'ksonville. But add that to the time line: Maria "shows up"; big fight to have this passion kill; kill her; clean up house/garage; dig hole; bury her; clean self up; be all calm when Christina shows up. All in what 2 hours or so?????????

Just odd things I ponder on. :punch: <------ Me, since I don't have a clue what went down. PEACE.

[sunstar]

Originally posted by hinman
Thanks sunstar. They are all very good points.

Sometimes I need it spelled out for me I have a hard time understanding some of this. [/*]
You and me both on the understanding part!
I guess I better say goodnight since tomorrow's another day at work! :seeya:

[Janz]

Originally posted by sunstar

He might not have told her he was done with her in those words, but may be that he couldn't leave his wife "just yet". It's only speculation, but a lot of times there will be promises made that just can't be fulfilled because the guy wants both women in his life. He also couldn't admit to a relationship with Maria because of the adultery charges he could face with the MC. [/*]

This causes me to think, he must have been under considerable stress, from CSL as well, especially since Maria had chosen to stay pregnant, and if she did go there "agitated", maybe in an instant he became enraged and struck the death blow.

On the other hand, Christina could have found them there in her home and dealt the death blow, but I do feel both were involved in the burial and charring...

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by RiverWalk
To the folks that live in Jacksonville and I have no clue about your soil/digging, etc.

How long would it take you to dig a grave/hole for Maria?

I planted a tree today in my backyard. It took 2 guys almost 6 hours to dig a hole 3' x 3' because we have clay soil = gumbo = black unworkable chit.

Don't know about J'ksonville. But add that to the time line: Maria "shows up"; big fight to have this passion kill; kill her; clean up house/garage; dig hole; bury her; clean self up; be all calm when Christina shows up. All in what 2 hours or so?????????

Just odd things I ponder on. :punch: <------ Me, since I don't have a clue what went down. PEACE. [/*]

It took my husband a few hours to dig a hole about 3 ft deep and 6 ft in diameter and i am a few miles from the laureans. our soil is clayish and heavy. jmo

[hinman]

Originally posted by marinewife5


It took my husband a few hours to dig a hole about 3 ft deep and 6 ft in diameter and i am a few miles from the laureans. our soil is clayish and heavy. jmo [/*]hmm so I wonder if he could of hid her body in her car or his truck until he got that whole dug.

I wonder when he dug the whole if it was already dug partly do we know?

[AlohaRainbow]

Originally posted by Jan Powell
I'm going to be out for awhile, I'm having by-pass surgery tomorrow. By the time I get back to post I hope all of you and LE have solved my four biggest mysteries:
*snip* [/*]
have a smooth and speedy surgery and recovery!

[RiverWalk]

Originally posted by marinewife5


It took my husband a few hours to dig a hole about 3 ft deep and 6 ft in diameter and i am a few miles from the laureans. our soil is clayish and heavy. jmo [/*]

Thank you. SO how does the digging that hole for Maria fit in to the timeline?

Maybe no one cares? The whole time line is off, imo.

DO some think maybe Cesar hid her body for a day or so and then dug/buried her? Just a question.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by sherryhefner
Has it been reported that the weapon was a crowbar? [/*]

Only speculated, Sherry.

I read the autopsy report again today and that 4" x5' tight pattern just doesn't look like what a crowbar would make to me.

It seems to me that something struck her that was much wider than a crowbar imo.

And it still bothers me that it looks like she was totally blindsided and not looking at the person swinging the weapon. The injury is straight onto her skull in the temple and ear area. Normal reaction would be she would turn her head to the right to deflect the blow making it be more at a glancing blow and some of the injury further back from where it was.

Also the neck wound may be superficial to the ME but if a jury looks at a 4" long wound that gapes to 2" wide it is going to look bad to them. I know it would me. My daughters wounds weren't
that large individually but they were gaping and looked horrible.

imoo

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by RiverWalk


Thank you. SO how does the digging that hole for Maria fit in to the timeline?

Maybe no one cares? The whole time line is off, imo.

DO some think maybe Cesar hid her body for a day or so and then dug/buried her? Just a question. [/*]

if she got to his house after buying the bus ticket, he could have never had that hole dug and filled back in before 7, imo

[RiverWalk]

Originally posted by hinman
hmm so I wonder if he could of hid her body in her car or his truck until he got that whole dug.

I wonder when he dug the whole if it was already dug partly do we know? [/*]

Good point. Maybe there was some sort of "pit" in the yard? He just stuck her in some sort of already dug pit?

[hinman]

Originally posted by RiverWalk


Thank you. SO how does the digging that hole for Maria fit in to the timeline?

Maybe no one cares? The whole time line is off, imo.

DO some think maybe Cesar hid her body for a day or so and then dug/buried her? Just a question. [/*]I think it is a possibility.

[RiverWalk]

Originally posted by marinewife5


if she got to his house after buying the bus ticket, he could have never had that hole dug and filled back in before 7, imo [/*]

IA, but maybe the pit was already there ... see HINMAN's post. Could be. Heck if I know. The neighbors/friends would know?

[AlohaRainbow]

Originally posted by sunstar

My thoughts and prayers for you and hurry back! :) I have no clue about the other questions but this one doesn't make any sense for him to "love" her after she's filed charges which could ruin his career, but for all we know she could've gone to his house to say she was sorry she'd done it and was going to leave. [/*]
what if cesar did tell maria that he was in love with her - and that's when/why she was (allegedly) trying to back out of the charges, including her 'readjusted' statement in november that the baby couldn't have been a result of the claimed rape

[RiverWalk]

Originally posted by hinman
I think it is a possibility. [/*]

One thing for SURE is that that more time was needed to dig a hole for Maria/Gabriel ... :( OR he hid her body or some sort of hole was already there?

Just questions folks. No facts here ... just wondering! Maria shows up/kill/clean up/dig and be all calm just doesn't add up to ME. But that is just me.

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by RiverWalk


IA, but maybe the pit was already there ... see HINMAN's post. Could be. Heck if I know. The neighbors/friends would know? [/*]

it is a possiblility. friends who had visited could fill that in for LE, if they haven't already.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by RiverWalk


One thing for SURE is that that more time was needed to dig a hole for Maria/Gabriel ... :( OR he hid her body or some sort of hole was already there?

Just questions folks. No facts here ... just wondering! Maria shows up/kill/clean up/dig and be all calm just doesn't add up to ME. But that is just me. [/*]

I agree, RIver.

And there is no way he could be assured that she wasn't going to come home early either.

imoo

[AlohaRainbow]

Originally posted by flipflop


Ok, are you going on the assumption that Christina may have killed her? I have not ruled that out. ;)

ETA I'll just have to alter my theory. :) [/*]
i wonder where in your theory (pretty good one, i thought!) it would fit that cesar told co-workers his wife was pregnant?

i could see one reason he might tell co-workers that is if he and christina were planning to adopt maria's baby? then, possibly she changed her mind about giving up her baby to them,

[RiverWalk]

Originally posted by marinewife5


it is a possiblility. friends who had visited could fill that in for LE, if they haven't already. [/*]

Good point. I live in HOT country/Bexar county. No way in heck would I have a fire pit in my yard since it's so hot/warm here 24/7/345!! lol. There ... Jacksonsville .... could be? Maybe Maria/Gabs grave was already there? Ah geeze. No way does digging a new hole in the ground FIT with the timeline, imo. OR he hid the body. Gross, but he could have?

Back to the regular programming. Outta here!:seeya: