4/12 to 5/1 [Archive] - In Session Message Boards

Rosieo

04-14-2008, 12:41 AM

Originally posted by crimeq
I have been reading WS and here, and admit I missed the beginning and middle of this case. I have questions about the PP thong that was found "entwined" with Bri's panties.

Some reports say the panties were identified to belong to one of the women who lived in the house from which Bri was taken. Some reports say they don't know who they belong to.

Some reports say the male DNA on the panties was the same as the perp who killed Bri; some say it belonged to a different and unknown male.

??? Anybody have any better information than I've found, which frankly, is confusing me? [/*]

Hi there - the PP panties, there was some confusion at first - originally, LE said they had his DNA on them, then retracted - they had the DNA of an unknown woman and an unknown man on them. There was a second pair of panties found with her body, a pink pair, belonging to her roommate, that had her DNA, his DNA AND the roomie's DNA on them.

gestalt

04-14-2008, 11:26 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by logicworks
The other is Brittany Zimmerman, from Madison, Wisconsin, which is about 11 hours, 765 miles away from Minot, ND.

http://wkow.madison.com/News/index.php?ID=20284

There is a thread for the Brittany Zimmerman case under Current Crimes.

The thing I don't "get" is how people don't acknowledge the college campus link, as you say. Why aren't they mentioning Brianna on those news reports in Madison and vice versa?

I'm not indicating they are related; we need to care about people who are not in our neighborhood as well.

And that there is an increase of campus murders!

osubbfan

04-14-2008, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by gestalt
[QUOTE]Originally posted by logicworks
The other is Brittany Zimmerman, from Madison, Wisconsin, which is about 11 hours, 765 miles away from Minot, ND.

http://wkow.madison.com/News/index.php?ID=20284

There is a thread for the Brittany Zimmerman case under Current Crimes.

The thing I don't "get" is how people don't acknowledge the college campus link, as you say. Why aren't they mentioning Brianna on those news reports in Madison and vice versa?

I'm not indicating they are related; we need to care about people who are not in our neighborhood as well.

And that there is an increase of campus murders! [/*]

Has there been an increase in campus murders? I know we hear about them more often these days but colleges have always been preferred "hunting grounds" of sexual predators. You have lots of young women who, due to their youth, tend to take more chances with their safety.

It was reported earlier that sexual assault is the fastest growing crime in the US, so I wouldn't be surprised if crime on college campus' has increased as well.

In regard to where the perp in this case may be, I agree that he likely left Reno unless he has some roots there. I know a guy who works for a company based in Ohio who was sent to a town near Reno (can't recall name, started with a Y) to work on building a dairy factory. He was there for 3 weeks out of the month starting in fall 2007 until the end of Jan. 2008. There were several workers from the Ohio area there during that period. This is just an example of how transient people are these days, especially with the amount of travel involved in many fields of employment. It is truly hard to tell where he may be. IIRC though, I thought LE had some reason to believe he is still in the Reno area...can't imagine the baby shoe would be reason enough to draw this conclusion, so they must have something else.

Rosieo

04-14-2008, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by osubbfan

Has there been an increase in campus murders? I know we hear about them more often these days but colleges have always been preferred "hunting grounds" of sexual predators. You have lots of young women who, due to their youth, tend to take more chances with their safety.

It was reported earlier that sexual assault is the fastest growing crime in the US, so I wouldn't be surprised if crime on college campus' has increased as well.

In regard to where the perp in this case may be, I agree that he likely left Reno unless he has some roots there. I know a guy who works for a company based in Ohio who was sent to a town near Reno (can't recall name, started with a Y) to work on building a dairy factory. He was there for 3 weeks out of the month starting in fall 2007 until the end of Jan. 2008. There were several workers from the Ohio area there during that period. This is just an example of how transient people are these days, especially with the amount of travel involved in many fields of employment. It is truly hard to tell where he may be. IIRC though, I thought LE had some reason to believe he is still in the Reno area...can't imagine the baby shoe would be reason enough to draw this conclusion, so they must have something else. [/*]

I wondered, too, how they came to that conclusion - they've stated several times they believe he's from and is still in the area. I hope he is! Crimes against co-eds do seem more frequent now - unless we're just hearing about them more...

sunstar

04-14-2008, 03:13 PM

Originally posted by Rosieo

I wondered, too, how they came to that conclusion - they've stated several times they believe he's from and is still in the area. I hope he is! Crimes against co-eds do seem more frequent now - unless we're just hearing about them more... [/*]
I'm very curious about how certain they can be if they don't even know who he is. I could understand it better if this happened in a place without so much tourism.

Hubbard

04-14-2008, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by logicworks

Judging from what LE has said about the condition of Bri's body and that it was basically unbelievable what he did to her, seems to me, it would be someone so totally 'gone' and out of control, it isn't likely to be someone who will just stop, or someone who just started. I think it is likely that he has a history and if not caught, also a future in doing the same thing again.

Thinking this could be a serial killer, I started searching online regarding other college students who were murdered recently and came up with a few so far, thinking it could be someone who moves around to avoid being caught.

Here are links to those I have found.
One is Anita Knutson from Minot, North Dakota, about 1500 miles from Reno; murder occurred about six months before the Reno rapes began.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/news/original/0607/1101_anita_knutson2.html

The other is Brittany Zimmerman, from Madison, Wisconsin, which is about 11 hours, 765 miles away from Minot, ND.

http://wkow.madison.com/News/index.php?ID=20284

While reading there, I noticed another murdered student, Kelly Nolan, another U of Wis. student.

http://steeplemedia.com/blogs/scout_sports/archive/2007/07/13/update-on-kelly-nolan-murder-search-for-a-killer.aspx

Just thinking someone as far gone as this guy seems to be, must have had 'practice' before taking Bri, and it is possible it wasn't in the Reno area.

Just some other possibilities, that I don't see having ever been solved.
JMO [/*]

Did I miss something that LE said about her body? I don't recall any details about the condition of Brianna's body.

Hubbard

04-14-2008, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by crimeq
I have been reading WS and here, and admit I missed the beginning and middle of this case. I have questions about the PP thong that was found "entwined" with Bri's panties.

Some reports say the panties were identified to belong to one of the women who lived in the house from which Bri was taken. Some reports say they don't know who they belong to.

Some reports say the male DNA on the panties was the same as the perp who killed Bri; some say it belonged to a different and unknown male.

??? Anybody have any better information than I've found, which frankly, is confusing me? [/*]

The media seems to be reporting incorrect information that has caused confusion over the facts. I highly recommend reading the official LE statements for the facts.

Politigal

04-14-2008, 07:23 PM

I haven't really studied serial rapists as much as serial killers, but I wonder if they are basically the same, as far as general traits.

Lots of articles online say they tend to be the quiet, unassuming polite guy-next-door types - the person you'd least expect to commit a crime.

Still though, will all the details about his anatomy and his vehicle, and the times of the attacks & locations, it would seem that *somebody* knows who this person is.

:shrug:

crimeq

04-14-2008, 08:09 PM

Originally posted by Rosieo

Hi there - the PP panties, there was some confusion at first - originally, LE said they had his DNA on them, then retracted - they had the DNA of an unknown woman and an unknown man on them. There was a second pair of panties found with her body, a pink pair, belonging to her roommate, that had her DNA, his DNA AND the roomie's DNA on them. [/*]

:seeya: Thanks Rosieo, I don't know if that makes it any clearer, but at least a good description of what happened.

So Bri's panties weren't found? But these other two pair intertwined :confused: It has to be intentional, IMO--definitely taunting.

Rosieo

04-14-2008, 09:42 PM

Originally posted by crimeq

:seeya: Thanks Rosieo, I don't know if that makes it any clearer, but at least a good description of what happened.

So Bri's panties weren't found? But these other two pair intertwined :confused: It has to be intentional, IMO--definitely taunting. [/*]

They haven't said anything about her panties, or her clothing. Just that the pink pair were her roomie's and had the roomie's DNA along with that of Bri and the perp - they didn't say whether she was actually wearing them. Being intertwined, IMO, would possibly indicate he used them to strangle her :( I do believe they were left there for a reason, to taunt LE.

Rosieo

04-14-2008, 09:43 PM

Originally posted by Politigal
I haven't really studied serial rapists as much as serial killers, but I wonder if they are basically the same, as far as general traits.

Lots of articles online say they tend to be the quiet, unassuming polite guy-next-door types - the person you'd least expect to commit a crime.

Still though, will all the details about his anatomy and his vehicle, and the times of the attacks & locations, it would seem that *somebody* knows who this person is.

:shrug: [/*]

It would certainly seem so - there's really a lot of information out there about him.

Rosieo

04-14-2008, 09:45 PM

Originally posted by crimeq

:seeya: Thanks Rosieo, I don't know if that makes it any clearer, but at least a good description of what happened.

So Bri's panties weren't found? But these other two pair intertwined :confused: It has to be intentional, IMO--definitely taunting. [/*]

Thinking of him leaving there to taunt LE just made me think of something - if that's the case, I would think he would strike again. If he left them there to taunt LE, he wants to play - he doesn't want to just be forgotten and it's all over - there's no "fun" or "glory" in that for him. He certainly didn't leave them to say "neener, neener, you can't catch me, but I'm never going to do it again." KWIM?

crimeq

04-14-2008, 11:34 PM

Originally posted by Rosieo

Thinking of him leaving there to taunt LE just made me think of something - if that's the case, I would think he would strike again. If he left them there to taunt LE, he wants to play - he doesn't want to just be forgotten and it's all over - there's no "fun" or "glory" in that for him. He certainly didn't leave them to say "neener, neener, you can't catch me, but I'm never going to do it again." KWIM? [/*]

I agree. If he's taunting, he's into the game and will keep it up :( I want him caught before another woman is hurt or worse.

04-15-2008, 05:04 AM

:rose: :rose: :rose:

You are not forgotten!

osubbfan

04-15-2008, 08:31 AM

Rally to protest violence against women (http://www.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080415/NEWS01/804150349/1321/NEWS)
"A rally, candlelight vigil and march to protest violence against women will be Thursday at the University of Nevada, Reno.
"Take Back the Night Around the Community" will be from
7 to 9 p.m. at the plaza in front of the Joe Crowley Student Union.
The event is part of an effort to raise awareness of violence against women, particularly after several rapes and attempted sexual assaults were reported in the past six months at UNR and in the nearby community.
One of the attacks ended in tragedy. The body of 19-year-old Brianna Denison was found in southeast Reno a month after she had been abducted from an apartment near the campus.
Scheduled speakers for Thursday's event are Reno Councilwoman Sharon Zadra, Reno Police Chief Michael Poehlman, Assemblyman David Bobzien, D-Reno; and Suzanne Ramos, a victims advocate in the Reno city attorney's office.
A portion of "Las Mujeres de Juarez," a play about the violent deaths of hundreds of women in Juarez, Mexico, since 1993, will be performed in Spanish."

While this is a great effort to keep this in the minds of the public it isn't the answer to violence against women. Changes need made in the criminal justice system and in the minds of people. I actually hate to see things like this because politicians will point to them and claim they are doing something about the rising violence against women when in reality they do NOTHING but talk tough. This will change nothing in and of itself. Time to quit talking and start doing. :flamemad:

gestalt

04-15-2008, 01:57 PM

In reference to the atrocities in Juarez. Mexico. I have been following this for the past 4 years. I was referred to a counselor in my city who was said to specialize in victimization of women--for marital counseling--well let me tell you she was Hispanic and didn't even know about the women of Juarez! I had to inform her. It was so pathetic.

gestalt

04-15-2008, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by logicworks

This is the statement that I was referring to as 'condition'......
“This case is shocking to us, but to 99.9 percent of the people who live in this community, they have no comprehension and **cannot even fathom that someone had done what this guy did,”** McDonald said. “He’s a deviant not working on the same moral plane as the rest of us. Something is wrong with this person.”
JMO [/*]

You know what, I think that what he is saying here is that any murder of a woman is abhorent to most of the population. To my way of thinking, he was not saying that this in particular was more heinous.

Rosieo

04-15-2008, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by osubbfan
Rally to protest violence against women (http://www.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080415/NEWS01/804150349/1321/NEWS)
"A rally, candlelight vigil and march to protest violence against women will be Thursday at the University of Nevada, Reno.
"Take Back the Night Around the Community" will be from
7 to 9 p.m. at the plaza in front of the Joe Crowley Student Union.
The event is part of an effort to raise awareness of violence against women, particularly after several rapes and attempted sexual assaults were reported in the past six months at UNR and in the nearby community.
One of the attacks ended in tragedy. The body of 19-year-old Brianna Denison was found in southeast Reno a month after she had been abducted from an apartment near the campus.
Scheduled speakers for Thursday's event are Reno Councilwoman Sharon Zadra, Reno Police Chief Michael Poehlman, Assemblyman David Bobzien, D-Reno; and Suzanne Ramos, a victims advocate in the Reno city attorney's office.
A portion of "Las Mujeres de Juarez," a play about the violent deaths of hundreds of women in Juarez, Mexico, since 1993, will be performed in Spanish."

While this is a great effort to keep this in the minds of the public it isn't the answer to violence against women. Changes need made in the criminal justice system and in the minds of people. I actually hate to see things like this because politicians will point to them and claim they are doing something about the rising violence against women when in reality they do NOTHING but talk tough. This will change nothing in and of itself. Time to quit talking and start doing. :flamemad: [/*]

Excellent post - bears repeating.

Politigal

04-15-2008, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by gestalt

You know what, I think that what he is saying here is that any murder of a woman is abhorent to most of the population. To my way of thinking, he was not saying that this in particular was more heinous. [/*]

I agree. IMO, he was referring to the brazen abduction, assault, strangulation and dumping of the body. I don't think he was implying i.e. mutilation or anything beyond that.

Rosieo

04-15-2008, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by Politigal

I agree. IMO, he was referring to the brazen abduction, assault, strangulation and dumping of the body. I don't think he was implying i.e. mutilation or anything beyond that. [/*]

I hope not :( I just took it, when he said it was shocking to LE, that it must've been pretty bad to shock them....My hope is still that whatever he did to her, it was swift.

osubbfan

04-15-2008, 07:48 PM

I really don't think we know enough about this perp to know if he has left the area or how he might strike again. He could be arrogant enough to stay right under LE's nose with the belief he is too smart for them to catch. If so, he would want to take credit for his crimes to prove this. If the underwear were left to taunt police then this is certainly a possibility.

Of course, he could always be more interested in committing the crimes and not in game playing with LE. In this case he would try to hide his crimes and wouldn't challenge LE by taking chances. He would be more interested in not getting caught than proving his superiority. Since there haven't been any known assaults in almost 3 months then this is also a possibility.

Personally, I hope he is an arrogant, sick jerk and not just a sicko. He has been lucky so far but I'm convinced he isn't as smart as he thinks he is.

Rosieo

04-15-2008, 07:57 PM

Originally posted by osubbfan
I really don't think we know enough about this perp to know if he has left the area or how he might strike again. He could be arrogant enough to stay right under LE's nose with the belief he is too smart for them to catch. If so, he would want to take credit for his crimes to prove this. If the underwear were left to taunt police then this is certainly a possibility.

Totally agree!

Of course, he could always be more interested in committing the crimes and not in game playing with LE. In this case he would try to hide his crimes and wouldn't challenge LE by taking chances. He would be more interested in not getting caught than proving his superiority. Since there haven't been any known assaults in almost 3 months then this is also a possibility.

Again, totally agree.

Personally, I hope he is an arrogant, sick jerk and not just a sicko. He has been lucky so far but I'm convinced he isn't as smart as he thinks he is. [/*]

Exactly! I know there's been so opinion that he's very smart - my impression is not that he's smart, but that he's desperate and doesn't care what kind of chances he takes to accomplish his goal. I hope he is arrogant enough to do it again - NOT that I want another attack, but sadly, I think that's what it's going to take to catch him - hopefully, in the attempt before he accomplishes anything.

osubbfan

04-15-2008, 10:17 PM

Originally posted by TwoFour

I have a feeling he is long gone from the area because of the media attention and that this case will go cold. JMO [/*]

That could be. However, there has been no evidence revealed to support that feeling. The fact is, unless you are the perp, you're just guessing like the rest of us. It really isn't that easy to just get up and move if you have a family and a job...which of course he may not have. If he has any relationships at all moving on the spur of the moment would raise red flags. Those around him would have to be absolute morons to not connect the dots.

Rosieo

04-15-2008, 10:36 PM

Originally posted by osubbfan

That could be. However, there has been no evidence revealed to support that feeling. The fact is, unless you are the perp, you're just guessing like the rest of us. It really isn't that easy to just get up and move if you have a family and a job...which of course he may not have. If he has any relationships at all moving on the spur of the moment would raise red flags. Those around him would have to be absolute morons to not connect the dots. [/*]

Exactly - if he is from the area as LE is saying they think he is, it's not that easy to just up and take off. Even if he has only one friend in the whole world, that one friend would find it suspicious, IMO. How many people are such total, complete loners that right after a murder, given the fact of all the info out there, can just pick up and take off inconspicuously? If you know a guy who has, or sometimes borrows, a truck fitting the description, his physical appearance generally fits the description and suddenly he's moving out of state, definite red flags. But if that guy sold the truck, you may still figure it's just coincidence. My hunch - thought it could be way off, of course - is that he does live in the area and as LE has suggested, seems so normal and blends in so well that no-one would ever suspect him.

gestalt

04-16-2008, 11:38 AM

Re: Baby shoe left in vehicle. Possible similar situation?

I mentioned this case on another board several weeks ago. The woman had her children in the car while turning tricks and snorted cocaine off of her baby's belly while nursing him:

http://www.cbs6albany.com/onset?id=1251930&template=article.html

gestalt

04-16-2008, 11:51 AM

Re: murders of women on campuses increasing?

Don't you agree that within the last several years there has been a definite increase, IMO.

It seems to me that after the 80's there was a time there that you didn't read about it that much.

Maelstrom5

04-16-2008, 01:23 PM

Originally posted by gestalt
Re: murders of women on campuses increasing?

Don't you agree that within the last several years there has been a definite increase, IMO.

It seems to me that after the 80's there was a time there that you didn't read about it that much. [/*]

Hi Gestalt,

I don't think that there has been a substantial increase in the number of women on college campuses being murdered in resent years, just more information about those that are.

In the 70's, 80's we did not have the internet or all news cable channels. No message boards to share ideas and information. No talking heads to tell us about a crime that takes place outside of our general area.

I have been interested in missing people and unsolved murder cases since I was a child, but the cases I know about from that time frame were either local or I read about them in a book.

Without Cable TV and the internet it is unlikely anyone outside the Reno area would know about Brianna.

Rosieo

04-16-2008, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by gestalt
Re: Baby shoe left in vehicle. Possible similar situation?

I mentioned this case on another board several weeks ago. The woman had her children in the car while turning tricks and snorted cocaine off of her baby's belly while nursing him:

http://www.cbs6albany.com/onset?id=1251930&template=article.html [/*]

OMG, how sad :( It just made me sick thinking this guy could actually have had a baby in the truck with him, but anything is possible :( And of course, how would his wife or SO suspect anything, if he had the baby that night?

Rosieo

04-16-2008, 04:22 PM

Now this put yet another rambling thought in my head -could be that his wife or SO works 3rd shift, 11p-7a - he watches the baby - if he was there when she left for work and there when she got home, with the baby, the thought that it could be him would be laughable to her - impossible -far-fetched, maybe, but just entertaining all possibilities in my head at this point.

Rosieo

04-16-2008, 04:24 PM

Originally posted by Maelstrom5

Hi Gestalt,

I don't think that there has been a substantial increase in the number of women on college campuses being murdered in resent years, just more information about those that are.

In the 70's, 80's we did not have the internet or all news cable channels. No message boards to share ideas and information. No talking heads to tell us about a crime that takes place outside of our general area.

I have been interested in missing people and unsolved murder cases since I was a child, but the cases I know about from that time frame were either local or I read about them in a book.

Without Cable TV and the internet it is unlikely anyone outside the Reno area would know about Brianna. [/*]

ITA - even with Cable TV and the internet, I doubt that a whole lot of people outside the Reno area know about her - out of everyone I talk to, from all different states, other than on this board, no-one's heard of her :(

gestalt

04-16-2008, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by Rosieo
Now this put yet another rambling thought in my head -could be that his wife or SO works 3rd shift, 11p-7a - he watches the baby - if he was there when she left for work and there when she got home, with the baby, the thought that it could be him would be laughable to her - impossible -far-fetched, maybe, but just entertaining all possibilities in my head at this point. [/*]

That is a possibility. And, the baby may not have been with him. Think of all of the times we've heard of cases where the baby is left alone in the house while the parent goes out, or another thought: maybe he left the baby with one of the grandmothers and she is oblivious.

butterfly28

04-16-2008, 04:53 PM

Originally posted by Rosieo
Now this put yet another rambling thought in my head -could be that his wife or SO works 3rd shift, 11p-7a - he watches the baby - if he was there when she left for work and there when she got home, with the baby, the thought that it could be him would be laughable to her - impossible -far-fetched, maybe, but just entertaining all possibilities in my head at this point. [/*]

It absolutely could be a possiblity. I had not thought of a baby with him at the time. How horrible.

Rosieo

04-16-2008, 05:11 PM

Originally posted by gestalt

That is a possibility. And, the baby may not have been with him. Think of all of the times we've heard of cases where the baby is left alone in the house while the parent goes out, or another thought: maybe he left the baby with one of the grandmothers and she is oblivious. [/*]

I was just thinking that, too - the baby's shoe came off in his rush to drop her/him off....it sure is possible - and if he was only gone a couple of hours, who would suspect that's what he was doing?

Rosieo

04-16-2008, 05:20 PM

Originally posted by butterfly28

It absolutely could be a possiblity. I had not thought of a baby with him at the time. How horrible. [/*]

that would just be....no words - but it is possible :( I'm hoping that this isn't a divorced man, etc, but a happily married man with a child that no-one would ever suspect for the fact that it wouldn't be that easy for him then to just pick up and take off without arousing suspicion and if he IS still there, the longer he stays there, the more chance of catching him. You would think if he borrowed a friend's truck, a friend that has a baby, on that night, that the friend would've certainly put 2+2 together by now - especially since the friend would know he had typewritten pages on the floor of his truck when he borrowed it. None of it makes sense - if it's a guy with a baby and he sold the truck right after her murder, wouldn't the mother of that baby have put 2+2 together by now?

gestalt

04-16-2008, 05:36 PM

The shoe gets pushed off picking the baby up out the car seat, as you mention, most likely. If the baby is then given to say, the suspect's mother, it could be then that she doesn't know, or is in denial. How many times have you seen where the mother never, ever suspects or is in denial of her son doing such a thing, even if all of the evidence is right in her face.

Rosieo

04-16-2008, 05:45 PM

Originally posted by gestalt
The shoe gets pushed off picking the baby up out the car seat, as you mention, most likely. If the baby is then given to say, the suspect's mother, it could be then that she doesn't know, or is in denial. How many times have you seen where the mother never, ever suspects or is in denial of her son doing such a thing, even if all of the evidence is right in her face. [/*]

Exactly! I don't know why, but that's what I've been thinking about this guy right from the start - that he's someone who's so seemingly normal, charming and well-liked that it would never occur to anyone that it could be him. Not that he's a serial killer yet, but a Ted Bundy type as a comparison. I have no idea why my intuition tells me that, I just have that feeling - maybe even a person who holds office in Reno, someone well respected. I think part of the reason I feel that way is if this was just a scumbag kinda guy, someone would've made a comparison and suspected by now and called in a tip, IMO. Like "yeah, Joe's kind of weird and quiet and hey, he drove a truck like that but he sold it and he does (had) soft hair a couple inches long on his chin." I just think if it was a guy who people thought "strange" anyway, it would've added up for someone. I think he may be a seemingly completely normal, personable, happily married man who no-one would ever in a million years suspect of being capable of this. When they get him, it will be interesting to see how far off I am - maybe totally far off.

sunstar

04-16-2008, 05:57 PM

Originally posted by Rosieo

I was just thinking that, too - the baby's shoe came off in his rush to drop her/him off....it sure is possible - and if he was only gone a couple of hours, who would suspect that's what he was doing? [/*]
It's a good theory, but the time of the night and early morning would seem odd to be dropping off a baby at even his mother's house unless he had a job where he'd routinely get called in at strange hours.

Rosieo

04-16-2008, 05:59 PM

Originally posted by sunstar

It's a good theory, but the time of the night and early morning would seem odd to be dropping off a baby at even his mother's house unless he had a job where he'd routinely get called in at strange hours. [/*]

If his wife works third shift, he could've said he got called in to work early or something.........

gestalt

04-16-2008, 06:05 PM

Rosieo -

The example of that seemingly normal theory is the Bike Path murderer, Artemio Sanchez, who fooled everyone for what, well over 8 years. I was involved in trying to figure that one out on another web site and it was insane how it unfolded!

Rosieo

04-16-2008, 06:07 PM

Rosieo

04-16-2008, 06:11 PM

Originally posted by gestalt
Rosieo -

The example of that seemingly normal theory is the Bike Path murderer, Artemio Sanchez, who fooled everyone for what, well over 8 years. I was involved in trying to figure that one out on another web site and it was insane how it unfolded! [/*]

Just googled - I can't believe I never heard of that one! My husband is from Amherst and most of my in-laws are still there, in Amherst, Cheektowaga and Swormsville and we have tons of friends in that area and I never heard a thing about this! Just goes to show, as in Bri's case, how many of these things go on that people don't even hear about.

gestalt

04-16-2008, 06:23 PM

Sanchez seemingly was, as they say, "dormant" for a long, long time, until he murdered a beautiful mom of, I think, 4 children. I think of that family often. It is so very sad.

And here he was having a great life with his own family and friends. And the wrong man in prison!

Then, of course, there is Dennis Rader.

Rosieo

04-16-2008, 06:34 PM

Originally posted by gestalt
Sanchez seemingly was, as they say, "dormant" for a long, long time, until he murdered a beautiful mom of, I think, 4 children. I think of that family often. It is so very sad.

And here he was having a great life with his own family and friends. And the wrong man in prison!

Then, of course, there is Dennis Rader. [/*]

I just read a bit about it - so sad :( And there he was, right in plain view - this is how I feel about Bri's killer - that it's someone like this that no-one would suspect. I PM'd you, I'm interested to hear how they finally caught this guy, I couldn't seem to find that. And that poor man that spent all that time in prison and had his life ruined :( And yes, Dennis Rader you'd never suspect either. Frightening - it really makes you want to get inside their heads and find out what makes them do this :(

Rosieo

04-17-2008, 12:33 AM

Originally posted by logicworks

I don't recall any mention of a car seat in the vehicle, although I may have missed it in reading.

If not, maybe the perp has a girlfriend or wife or sister or someone who rode in his truck and was holding the baby and the shoe fell off and he didn't realize it until later. Maybe the mom asked him later if it was in his truck, or maybe not until it came out in the news and that is what sent him back the second time to the victim's house where he tried to break in? Does anyone in the Reno area know whether anything about the rapist and the baby shoe came out prior to Brianna's going missing?

Sorry to ask so many questions, but it gets confusing reading the news reports........
Which attack was it that the baby shoe and papers were seen in the truck? Was it the same one where the girl gave all of the details about the console and the light, etc? Was that the one where he took her home and she had broken ankles?

That particular attack is beyond strange. I have never heard of a rapist taking someone home, or breaking ankles, or of a rapist going back to a victim's house a second time.

Just wondering if he may have gone back as a result of something that came out in the news, such as mention of the baby shoe, or somehow LE got close enough to him that he went ballistic and thought he needed to be certain she couldn't identify him.
JMO [/*]

The description of the baby shoe and papers, I believe, did come from the victim that provided all of the identifying info - I believe that was the Dec. victim. I agree, very very strange that he took her back home and I can't even imagine how her ankles got broken :( I have never, ever heard of a rapist raping a woman, beating her up that badly and then taking her back home. This guy does so many things that are confusing and make him seem either incrediby stupid, incredibly egotistical or just plain crazy. My guess, though, is that he did go back to do away with her after he found out she went to the police.

gestalt

04-17-2008, 06:23 PM

Rosieo -

In the Bike Path - Sanchez case, many years ago, one of the rape victims who lived said that she saw the rapist at a mall and wrote down the license plate # of the truck he was driving. Unfortunately, that truck was really one he borrowed from his brother or uncle, something like that, anyways, years later when another rape and murder happened, the relative came forward and admitted that he had lent the truck to his relative (Sanchez), on the day of the mall trip and had covered for him. Then it was a race to match up the DNA from the last murder and the others to Sanchez. The FBI trailed him, and after he had eaten dinner at a restaurant with his wife, took the silverware, glassware, etc. and got the DNA that finally proved that he was the Bike Path Rapist/Murderer.

Sanchez was arrested to the shock of family and friends, and the man in prison for years was finally released.

Rosieo

04-17-2008, 06:55 PM

Originally posted by gestalt
Rosieo -

In the Bike Path - Sanchez case, many years ago, one of the rape victims who lived said that she saw the rapist at a mall and wrote down the license plate # of the truck he was driving. Unfortunately, that truck was really one he borrowed from his brother or uncle, something like that, anyways, years later when another rape and murder happened, the relative came forward and admitted that he had lent the truck to his relative (Sanchez), on the day of the mall trip and had covered for him. Then it was a race to match up the DNA from the last murder and the others to Sanchez. The FBI trailed him, and after he had eaten dinner at a restaurant with his wife, took the silverware, glassware, etc. and got the DNA that finally proved that he was the Bike Path Rapist/Murderer.

Sanchez was arrested to the shock of family and friends, and the man in prison for years was finally released. [/*]

Thanks - I did some reading on this last night and saw that he said he told his uncle he raped a girl - his uncle denies he told him and LE is split on whether they think it's the truth or not. If it is, I hope his uncle can sleep at night, knowing that he contributed to there being more victims. How disgusting that ANYONE would cover for anyone who comitted a crime like that.

Politigal

04-18-2008, 02:35 PM

University is putting up more lighting for safety

http://www.ktvn.com/Global/story.asp?S=8178557

Rosieo

04-18-2008, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by Politigal
University is putting up more lighting for safety

http://www.ktvn.com/Global/story.asp?S=8178557 [/*]

Well, this is good news! It's nice to see that they do care and are taking action.

osubbfan

04-19-2008, 11:58 AM

This may have been posted already but I had never seen it. Interesting that they say the killer entered through the sliding glass doors. I really don't know how they could be certain about that based on the evidence released. The one thing that is clear in this video is how well someone could see into the house from the sidewalk. Another video I have seen showed the sliding glass doors had no covering. After Brianna and her friend returned home that morning I would assume they had lights on at some point. If watching at that point the killer had several clear views to watch inside the house.
CBS interview with detective (http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?id=3763644n)

I also found this comment in another early article interesting...

“Early in Denison investigation, police said blood was found on a pillow inside the home on Mackay; now we know for sure that blood is Brianna's. "The way the blood was on the pillow could be indicative of a suffocation or the pillow being used as a weapon of some sort to control Brianna."
IReno Police Link Missing Student, Earlier Sex Assault (http://www.ktvn.com/Global/story.asp?S=7781979&nav=menu549_2_4)
f Brianna's mother believes she was killed in the house then it seems he may have rendered her unconscious before strangling her. That makes no sense to me if his intent was to get her out of the house alive. What actually happened during the abduction itself is the biggest mystery to me, especially when considering the pink underwear.

Maelstrom5

04-19-2008, 02:32 PM

Hi osubbfan,

The comment about the sliding glass door mentioned in the video is consistent with the information provided by Mark Fuhrman in the early days of this investigation.

My guess?.. The door latch no longer locked. Fuhrman mentioned that a bar was usually placed in the grove of the door to keep it from opening, but it was not in place that night.

I own a timeshare condo on the island or Antigua and we have a similar sliding door that goes to the condo deck.

Because the unit changes hands and some are not as careful as others we use a bar along with the lock to keep the door secure. When I have exchanged into condos on other islands we are extra careful. Sometimes the door will not lock at all, and only the bar secures the door at night.

sunstar

04-19-2008, 05:20 PM

Originally posted by Maelstrom5
Hi osubbfan,

The comment about the sliding glass door mentioned in the video is consistent with the information provided by Mark Fuhrman in the early days of this investigation.

My guess?.. The door latch no longer locked. Fuhrman mentioned that a bar was usually placed in the grove of the door to keep it from opening, but it was not in place that night.

I own a timeshare condo on the island or Antigua and we have a similar sliding door that goes to the condo deck.

Because the unit changes hands and some are not as careful as others we use a bar along with the lock to keep the door secure. When I have exchanged into condos on other islands we are extra careful. Sometimes the door will not lock at all, and only the bar secures the door at night. [/*]
I found it odd that everyone would come and go and leave the front door unlocked but would usually have a bar in the sliding door track to keep it from opening. I recall the blanket was found on the kitchen floor so it seems she was at least taken out the back. I still think the perp was loitering around the house or may even have been inside while the tenants were out that night.

osubbfan

04-19-2008, 06:02 PM

Originally posted by herlock h.

Also, isn't there a question as to WHEN she died? Didn't they say that her body hadn't been in the field longer than a week? Of course the "week in the field" was just supposition owing to the freezing temps. However, I really found that confusing. (Of course I could have missed something..) anyway, did they say that she hadn't been dead longer than a week or that her body couldn't have been there longer than a week? Or, don't they know on either question? Seems like the blood on the pillow thing would not necessarily imply that she was killed immediately especially since it was a while (at least a month) before her body was located. I would think - with all the new tools available that LE could determine a better/more accurate time of death - regardless of temperatures. Maybe they have and for some reason won't give out the info? I know there's a question as to where she was for so long if she was alive for a good part of the time she was missing. I guess I would want answers to whether or not LE believes she was alive when she was taken.

Sorry if I confused anyone!

Herlock [/*]

Actually in the initial PC after her body was found LE said her body had been there "at least a week"," adding that specifically when they believe she was left there was not going to be released. He said something to the effect "that is something only LE and the killer knows." They denied that her body was mutilated or posed in any way. Other than that, they have released no info in regard to the condition of her body when found.

In regard to when she was killed...Bri's mother has stated that she has been told Bri was likely killed immediately and was never aware of what was done to her. I have never really had a strong belief about this although I do believe that if she was killed in the Mackay house it was unintentional. I think he wanted her alive during the attack....JMO.

butterfly28

04-19-2008, 07:04 PM

http://www.krnv.com/Global/story.asp?S=8192580

"A new study shows the state of Nevada has the highest number of women killed by men in the United States."

Rosieo

04-19-2008, 07:40 PM

Originally posted by osubbfan
This may have been posted already but I had never seen it. Interesting that they say the killer entered through the sliding glass doors. I really don't know how they could be certain about that based on the evidence released. The one thing that is clear in this video is how well someone could see into the house from the sidewalk. Another video I have seen showed the sliding glass doors had no covering. After Brianna and her friend returned home that morning I would assume they had lights on at some point. If watching at that point the killer had several clear views to watch inside the house.
CBS interview with detective (http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?id=3763644n)

THis wouldn't load for me but if that's true, that they said he came in through the sliding glass doors, that's interesting - those are in the kitchen......that house, from all the videos I've seen, had a very clear view inside, from a lot of points outside the house...the front, the sides, the back......

I also found this comment in another early article interesting...

“Early in Denison investigation, police said blood was found on a pillow inside the home on Mackay; now we know for sure that blood is Brianna's. "The way the blood was on the pillow could be indicative of a suffocation or the pillow being used as a weapon of some sort to control Brianna."
IReno Police Link Missing Student, Earlier Sex Assault (http://www.ktvn.com/Global/story.asp?S=7781979&nav=menu549_2_4)
f Brianna's mother believes she was killed in the house then it seems he may have rendered her unconscious before strangling her. That makes no sense to me if his intent was to get her out of the house alive. What actually happened during the abduction itself is the biggest mystery to me, especially when considering the pink underwear. [/*]

Here, too- If, I'm assuming, the blood was from his suffocating her with the pillow, she would have been unconscious- how you use a pillow as a weapon, I'm not sure, slamming it up against her face really hard? I've always felt she was unconscious when he took her out of the house. Dead when he took her out? Doubtful, IMO.

Rosieo

04-19-2008, 07:46 PM

Originally posted by herlock h.

Also, isn't there a question as to WHEN she died? Didn't they say that her body hadn't been in the field longer than a week? Of course the "week in the field" was just supposition owing to the freezing temps. However, I really found that confusing. (Of course I could have missed something..) anyway, did they say that she hadn't been dead longer than a week or that her body couldn't have been there longer than a week? Or, don't they know on either question?

All I've heard is that her body was there "at least a week." I KNOW they have a closer time of death than that, they have to, with the power of forensics, but that's all I've heard.

Seems like the blood on the pillow thing would not necessarily imply that she was killed immediately especially since it was a while (at least a month) before her body was located. I would think - with all the new tools available that LE could determine a better/more accurate time of death - regardless of temperatures.

EXACTLY. I'm sure they can. They know the rate of decomposition at different temperatures and in different situations/conditions.

Maybe they have and for some reason won't give out the info? I know there's a question as to where she was for so long if she was alive for a good part of the time she was missing. I guess I would want answers to whether or not LE believes she was alive when she was taken.

Sorry if I confused anyone!

Herlock [/*]

Didnt' confuse me, Herlock, I'd love the same answers. They said she was in the field "at least a week" - decomposition would have been slowed with the cold temps, so I assume they're basing that on a week's decomp and allowing a little extra time because of the temps? I'm not sure what they based that one, but I do know, of course, the cold temps would delay decomposition.

Rosieo

04-19-2008, 07:47 PM

Originally posted by Maelstrom5
Hi osubbfan,

The comment about the sliding glass door mentioned in the video is consistent with the information provided by Mark Fuhrman in the early days of this investigation.

My guess?.. The door latch no longer locked. Fuhrman mentioned that a bar was usually placed in the grove of the door to keep it from opening, but it was not in place that night.

I own a timeshare condo on the island or Antigua and we have a similar sliding door that goes to the condo deck.

Because the unit changes hands and some are not as careful as others we use a bar along with the lock to keep the door secure. When I have exchanged into condos on other islands we are extra careful. Sometimes the door will not lock at all, and only the bar secures the door at night. [/*]

I have heard that sliding glass doors are a very common point of entry because many, many people are careless with them.

Rosieo

04-19-2008, 07:49 PM

Originally posted by sunstar

I found it odd that everyone would come and go and leave the front door unlocked but would usually have a bar in the sliding door track to keep it from opening. I recall the blanket was found on the kitchen floor so it seems she was at least taken out the back. I still think the perp was loitering around the house or may even have been inside while the tenants were out that night. [/*]

That part is just amazing to me - that they always left the front door open and locked their room doors - amazing that anyone would do that, or feel that safe, KWIM? It's just something I would never EVER consider doing, mysef.

Rosieo

04-19-2008, 07:53 PM

Originally posted by osubbfan

Actually in the initial PC after her body was found LE said her body had been there "at least a week"," adding that specifically when they believe she was left there was not going to be released. He said something to the effect "that is something only LE and the killer knows." They denied that her body was mutilated or posed in any way. Other than that, they have released no info in regard to the condition of her body when found.

In regard to when she was killed...Bri's mother has stated that she has been told Bri was likely killed immediately and was never aware of what was done to her. I have never really had a strong belief about this although I do believe that if she was killed in the Mackay house it was unintentional. I think he wanted her alive during the attack....JMO. [/*]

I'm doubtlful about her being killed immediately, too, although it would be really nice if that were true - if anything about this can be considered "good", that would be good. I would like to think he unintentionally killed her at the house and took her body and dumped it, but why would he? Why wouldn't he just leave her there and run? I can see why her mother clings to that, though - I would, too.

Rosieo

04-19-2008, 08:09 PM

Originally posted by herlock h.

Thanks Osub and Rosio. I agree about the low temps and it's effects on decomp. However, unless temps were consistent - say a body kept in a freezer - I would think it would be a freeze, thaw sort of thing going on and I believe there would be evidence of that on the body.

I don't believe she was dead when she was removed from the house. Wouldn't cadaver dogs have been able to tell that? I think I read early on that dogs were brought in. I've read that good sniffer dogs can pick up death odors even before someone is dead. I don't believe this murder was at all "ordinary" what with that policeman's comments about the perp needing to be caught because he was sick (the link to that was posted again recently). Does anyone know if Brianna was cremated ? Was it an open casket service?

There's way more going on than what we're being told.

Herlock [/*]

I totally agree with you - I don't think this was an "ordinary" murder - "ordinary" as in he strangled her and dumped her -a "clean" kind of murder - I think there's a lot more. I just heard the undertones when LE said they were shocked and that people couldn't comprehend, etc. I just have a feeling it's a lot worse than we know. I believe, I'm not certain, but I believe she was cremated. I don't believe either that she was dead when he took her from the house - I do think, though, that she was unconscious, and I think he rendered her unconscious pretty quickly on entering the house.

osubbfan

04-19-2008, 11:50 PM

Originally posted by Rosieo

I'm doubtlful about her being killed immediately, too, although it would be really nice if that were true - if anything about this can be considered "good", that would be good. I would like to think he unintentionally killed her at the house and took her body and dumped it, but why would he? Why wouldn't he just leave her there and run? I can see why her mother clings to that, though - I would, too. [/*]

Maybe he thought she was just unconscious, maybe she was dying but not dead or maybe he knew she was already dead....I don't even want to think about why he would take the body. I'm with you in hoping that she was indeed already dead but find it doubtful.
Originally posted by Rosieo
"THis wouldn't load for me but if that's true, that they said he came in through the sliding glass doors, that's interesting - those are in the kitchen......that house, from all the videos I've seen, had a very clear view inside, from a lot of points outside the house...the front, the sides, the back......"

Actually, the sliding glass doors at the MacKay house are in between the kitchen and the room Bri was sleeping in. I don't know that it matters which door he came in...we know he got in somehow, but I had just always assumed it was the one right next to the couch. Either door is visible from the street. I think he saw them come home and watched them in wait. He had time to make a plan IMO. The kitchen door is less visible and I think he chose to take her out the back.
OH how I wish they would catch this evil, vicious POS.

Rosieo

04-19-2008, 11:56 PM

Originally posted by osubbfan

Maybe he thought she was just unconscious, maybe she was dying but not dead or maybe he knew she was already dead....I don't even want to think about why he would take the body. I'm with you in hoping that she was indeed already dead but find it doubtful.

I've kind of had that thought too - that maybe he hit her in the head with something and wanted to be sure to hit her hard enough to render her unconscious so he could take her, but after getting her in the truck and out of there, realized he hit her hard enough that she never regained consciousness, at least that's my hope. Also, may be far fetched, but maybe he didn't intend to kill her, just intended to take her and rape her, but was furious that she "thwarted" him when she wouldn't regain consciousness and killed her in a rage.

Originally posted by Rosieo
"THis wouldn't load for me but if that's true, that they said he came in through the sliding glass doors, that's interesting - those are in the kitchen......that house, from all the videos I've seen, had a very clear view inside, from a lot of points outside the house...the front, the sides, the back......"

Actually, the sliding glass doors at the MacKay house are in between the kitchen and the room Bri was sleeping in. I don't know that it matters which door he came in...we know he got in somehow, but I had just always assumed it was the one right next to the couch. Either door is visible from the street. I think he saw them come home and watched them in wait. He had time to make a plan IMO. The kitchen door is less visible and I think he chose to take her out the back.

Totally agree. It would be more logical to come in that front door, less distance to the couch - and take her out the sliding doors.

OH how I wish they would catch this evil, vicious POS. [/*]

Me too :flamemad:

Politigal

04-20-2008, 01:26 AM

I don't believe Brianna was killed in the home either.

Police have called this guy a serial rapist, and I don't think that he raped Brianna there in the home.....I don't know why...but I just don't.

Politigal

04-20-2008, 01:29 AM

On another note...something that's bothering me...

I'm still not sure of who the male residents of the home were. I know from doing a people search of 1, but what's sort of troublesome to me is the fact that he's older than Brianna & her girlfriends. Brianna and her friends were 18, 19, etc. and this guy is 29.

I still feel like the killer was someone familiar - possibly in his circle of friends - someone who may have known he wouldn't be there that night.

Rosieo

04-20-2008, 01:35 AM

Originally posted by Politigal
I don't believe Brianna was killed in the home either.

Police have called this guy a serial rapist, and I don't think that he raped Brianna there in the home.....I don't know why...but I just don't. [/*]

I don't think so, either - I think it's very doubtful he'd have taken the chance on taking that much time, or that the other girls wouldn't have heard anything if he did.

Rosieo

04-20-2008, 01:37 AM

Originally posted by Politigal
On another note...something that's bothering me...

I'm still not sure of who the male residents of the home were. I know from doing a people search of 1, but what's sort of troublesome to me is the fact that he's older than Brianna & her girlfriends. Brianna and her friends were 18, 19, etc. and this guy is 29.

I still feel like the killer was someone familiar - possibly in his circle of friends - someone who may have known he wouldn't be there that night. [/*]

Again, I agree - it could even be someone he wasn't "friends" with, but a casual acquaintance, or could be a friend, or someone who'd been at a party at the house - someone who'd seen Bri before and set his sights on her - I've just always had the distinct feeling that he knew exactly who lived there and exactly who was there that night.

crimeq

04-20-2008, 02:03 AM

Originally posted by Rosieo

I don't think so, either - I think it's very doubtful he'd have taken the chance on taking that much time, or that the other girls wouldn't have heard anything if he did. [/*]

But isn't it kind of strange from an MO POV that if he's a serial rapist, he entered the home and kidnapped this woman (or worse--don't know what happened while he was in the house with her). He found his other victims in outside situations.
Then, of course, he did try to break into the home of the Dec. victim--all very confusing.

How do the breakins and the kidnapping from inside the home fit with his other rapes, where he took his victims from outside, public places .... ?

Rosieo

04-20-2008, 02:22 AM

Originally posted by crimeq

But isn't it kind of strange from an MO POV that if he's a serial rapist, he entered the home and kidnapped this woman (or worse--don't know what happened while he was in the house with her). He found his other victims in outside situations.
Then, of course, he did try to break into the home of the Dec. victim--all very confusing.

How do the breakins and the kidnapping from inside the home fit with his other rapes, where he took his victims from outside, public places .... ? [/*]

You're right, it's very confusing - they said he's an opportunist which makes sense with the other attacks, but entering a home to kidnap a girl to rape her isn't exactly the ideal opportunity.

gestalt

04-20-2008, 10:25 AM

Rosieo, that is my feeling.

We know that one of the previous victims was smothered to the point of unconsciouness. As I read it, she revived in the truck, after he isolated her...very SOON after that. He wanted her to be alive--to control her completely, as if he had the power to command her when to sleep, to wake up, to do what he wanted, when he wanted, to see her fear. So, I think he was trying to do the same this time, only maybe in his way of thinking Brianna did not wake up, could not wake up for a very long time... this intensified his anger.

Does anyone have an idea about the blanket being in the kitchen. What was the chain of events with that?

osubbfan

04-20-2008, 11:08 AM

Originally posted by gestalt
Rosieo, that is my feeling.

We know that one of the previous victims was smothered to the point of unconsciouness. As I read it, she revived in the truck, after he isolated her...very SOON after that. He wanted her to be alive--to control her completely, as if he had the power to command her when to sleep, to wake up, to do what he wanted, when he wanted, to see her fear. So, I think he was trying to do the same this time, only maybe in his way of thinking Brianna did not wake up, could not wake up for a very long time... this intensified his anger.

Does anyone have an idea about the blanket being in the kitchen. What was the chain of events with that? [/*]

I think he took Bri out the back door as there is a wooded area behind the house. This would allow him to avoid being out in the open with the body for at least a period of time. If he had parked his vehicle on the street running parallel to MacKay then he could have avoided walking in the open most of the way. I think he initially wanted to use the blanket to conceal Bri but dropped it while going through the kitchen. It would have been difficult for him to pick it up while carrying Bri's body IMO so he just left it there. I assume he was also carrying the teddy bear. This likely occurred during the time in which even the "night owls" are sleeping so he was able to do all this without being seen. It seems like things just fell into place for him that morning...sadly enough.

osubbfan

04-20-2008, 11:26 AM

Originally posted by Rosieo

You're right, it's very confusing - they said he's an opportunist which makes sense with the other attacks, but entering a home to kidnap a girl to rape her isn't exactly the ideal opportunity. [/*]

I think this is the first time I've ever disagreed with you Roseio!! :beer:

I think in many ways this situation was easier for him as he knew (IMO) who was in the house. If he were to get caught his biggest risk would be if the women had a weapon, as he could easily overpower them and flee. They likely would not have tried to stop him. However, out in the open he risks being seen by any number of people and possibly being confronted by someone his own size....being the coward he is this would be more threatening to him. IMO there is a greater chance of someone unexpectedly pulling into a parking lot than someone entering the house during the time he was there. He knew where his potential victim was going to be and could take his time planning, maybe even parking his vehicle the in ideal place. His window of opportunity was wider with Bri and she was asleep....how much more vulnerable could she have been? He is a pathetic punk.

Zaun

04-20-2008, 11:29 AM

Originally posted by Rosieo

You're right, it's very confusing - they said he's an opportunist which makes sense with the other attacks, but entering a home to kidnap a girl to rape her isn't exactly the ideal opportunity. [/*]

He could see her from the outside, she was an easy target. IMO. He clearly succeeded in getting what he wanted. jmo

Brooke

04-20-2008, 01:37 PM

I was watching our local news last night and they said "Police hoping some new evidence in the Briana Dennison murder will help lead to her killer". They said the LE is not releasing what the new evidence is at this time.

Hoping and praying for justice for Briana!!

Rosieo

04-20-2008, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by gestalt
Rosieo, that is my feeling.

We know that one of the previous victims was smothered to the point of unconsciouness. As I read it, she revived in the truck, after he isolated her...very SOON after that. He wanted her to be alive--to control her completely, as if he had the power to command her when to sleep, to wake up, to do what he wanted, when he wanted, to see her fear. So, I think he was trying to do the same this time, only maybe in his way of thinking Brianna did not wake up, could not wake up for a very long time... this intensified his anger.

This could very well be, that whatever means he used to render her unconscious, he thought she'd revive pretty quickly and when she didn't, in his mind, it could have infuriated him that she wasn't "cooperating". He may have been on a limited time schedule and needed her awake quickly.

Does anyone have an idea about the blanket being in the kitchen. What was the chain of events with that? [/*]

I have no idea, I'd be interested to hear, too, if anyone has heard more. All I've heard was that it was found in the kitchen.

Rosieo

04-20-2008, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by osubbfan

I think this is the first time I've ever disagreed with you Roseio!! :beer:

I think in many ways this situation was easier for him as he knew (IMO) who was in the house. If he were to get caught his biggest risk would be if the women had a weapon, as he could easily overpower them and flee. They likely would not have tried to stop him. However, out in the open he risks being seen by any number of people and possibly being confronted by someone his own size....being the coward he is this would be more threatening to him. IMO there is a greater chance of someone unexpectedly pulling into a parking lot than someone entering the house during the time he was there. He knew where his potential victim was going to be and could take his time planning, maybe even parking his vehicle the in ideal place. His window of opportunity was wider with Bri and she was asleep....how much more vulnerable could she have been? He is a pathetic punk. [/*]

Good point. I was thinking of it as in putting myself in a "normal" person's shoes, I would think it would take ultimate nerve to enter someone's house - but now, in reading your post, it made me realize that yeah, he'd have only had to deal with a couple of other women if he was caught in the house, not such a big risk for him, I guess, in his eyes. That's one of the things that just gets me about this case, ticks me off and makes me very sad - that she was so vulnerable. To go peacefully to sleep and wake up to who knows what (if she woke up), that poor girl must have just felt like she was in a nightmare. He's a coward. I'm sure he feels like a big, bad, dangerous man when in reality he's just a little wuss. Sneaking up on tiny little women from behind and in their sleep makes him the opposite of what he's trying to be.

sunstar

04-20-2008, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by Rosieo

That part is just amazing to me - that they always left the front door open and locked their room doors - amazing that anyone would do that, or feel that safe, KWIM? It's just something I would never EVER consider doing, mysef. [/*]
We're in a safe neighborhood but keep locks on the windows and all doors, and only leave upstairs windows open at night or when we're not home. A locked bedroom door won't do much to keep a strong man out either. I also can't imagine not having blinds on windows or glass doors. No matter where you live it just invites trouble, especially for young, attractive women. MOO :)

sunstar

04-20-2008, 02:35 PM

Originally posted by Rosieo

Good point. I was thinking of it as in putting myself in a "normal" person's shoes, I would think it would take ultimate nerve to enter someone's house - but now, in reading your post, it made me realize that yeah, he'd have only had to deal with a couple of other women if he was caught in the house, not such a big risk for him, I guess, in his eyes. That's one of the things that just gets me about this case, ticks me off and makes me very sad - that she was so vulnerable. To go peacefully to sleep and wake up to who knows what (if she woke up), that poor girl must have just felt like she was in a nightmare. He's a coward. I'm sure he feels like a big, bad, dangerous man when in reality he's just a little wuss. Sneaking up on tiny little women from behind and in their sleep makes him the opposite of what he's trying to be. [/*]
There have been many killers, and especially serial killers, who have broken into the victims' homes/apartments in the middle of the night to assault and kill their victims, and usually kill everyone inside the house. This still sounds to me like it started out as an abduction in his mind and something went wrong, or because he was able to subdue her so easily just took her out of the house.

Rosieo

04-20-2008, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by sunstar

We're in a safe neighborhood but keep locks on the windows and all doors, and only leave upstairs windows open at night or when we're not home. A locked bedroom door won't do much to keep a strong man out either. I also can't imagine not having blinds on windows or glass doors. No matter where you live it just invites trouble, especially for young, attractive women. MOO :) [/*]

Exactly. Sadly, that's just the way it is, even in safe neighborhoods - mine is the same - we've been here for 26 years and the only crime ever in the neighborhood was someone's garage broken into years ago, but I'm very diligent about never leaving the downstairs windows open or unlocked at night and I would never leave my door unlocked at night.

A woman I worked for last year, I had to pick up work from her - I went over one day, rang the bell, she yelled "come on in, I'll be right down!" I went in and heard the shower water running!!! She was there all alone, in the shower, with the door unlocked and just yelled to come on in - I was flabbergasted that anyone would do that.

Rosieo

04-20-2008, 03:00 PM

Originally posted by sunstar

There have been many killers, and especially serial killers, who have broken into the victims' homes/apartments in the middle of the night to assault and kill their victims, and usually kill everyone inside the house. This still sounds to me like it started out as an abduction in his mind and something went wrong, or because he was able to subdue her so easily just took her out of the house. [/*]

That's what I've wondered, too, if he didn't start out intending to kill her, but for whatever reason it just didn't go as he planned.

It seems so insane (or stupid) to me to go into a person's home, but I guess maybe in their mind, they feel they're safer with their violence contained then inside that home....and that, in the middle of the night, of course, they have the "upper hand" since everyone is sleeping.

crimeq

04-20-2008, 03:05 PM

Originally posted by osubbfan

I think he took Bri out the back door as there is a wooded area behind the house. This would allow him to avoid being out in the open with the body for at least a period of time. If he had parked his vehicle on the street running parallel to MacKay then he could have avoided walking in the open most of the way. I think he initially wanted to use the blanket to conceal Bri but dropped it while going through the kitchen. It would have been difficult for him to pick it up while carrying Bri's body IMO so he just left it there. I assume he was also carrying the teddy bear. This likely occurred during the time in which even the "night owls" are sleeping so he was able to do all this without being seen. It seems like things just fell into place for him that morning...sadly enough. [/*]

The teddy bear detail is also very confusing. What perp is trying to carry a woman (or body) out of the house--quickly, to remain unnoticed--and takes the time to deal with a teddy bear, too, taking it with him. A trophy, perhaps?

sunstar

04-20-2008, 03:07 PM

Originally posted by Rosieo

Exactly. Sadly, that's just the way it is, even in safe neighborhoods - mine is the same - we've been here for 26 years and the only crime ever in the neighborhood was someone's garage broken into years ago, but I'm very diligent about never leaving the downstairs windows open or unlocked at night and I would never leave my door unlocked at night.

A woman I worked for last year, I had to pick up work from her - I went over one day, rang the bell, she yelled "come on in, I'll be right down!" I went in and heard the shower water running!!! She was there all alone, in the shower, with the door unlocked and just yelled to come on in - I was flabbergasted that anyone would do that. [/*]
It really is amazing, isn't it, how trusting people are. Instead of it being you at the door, it could've been someone like this perp. I'm hoping that some good has come out of this tragedy of Brianna's murder to alert everyone to being more careful of their surroundings and to cover windows and lock their doors! ;)

Rosieo

04-20-2008, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by crimeq

The teddy bear detail is also very confusing. What perp is trying to carry a woman (or body) out of the house--quickly, to remain unnoticed--and takes the time to deal with a teddy bear, too, taking it with him. A trophy, perhaps? [/*]

That part is puzzling. Unless he used it to smother her with and there was blood on it and he was trying not to leave DNA.....I don't know, it is strange and disturbing to think of where it may be now :(

Rosieo

04-20-2008, 03:13 PM

Originally posted by sunstar

It really is amazing, isn't it, how trusting people are. Instead of it being you at the door, it could've been someone like this perp. I'm hoping that some good has come out of this tragedy of Brianna's murder to alert everyone to being more careful of their surroundings and to cover windows and lock their doors! ;) [/*]

I was just in shock that she would do that- anyone could've just walked right in. I hope it has, too - things happen even when people are cautious, but there's no sense in being careless when little things like that can help in staying safe. If he had his sights on her, he may still have broken in, but at least he'd have had to make noise doing it, and the girls locked in KT's room may have had the chance to call 911. Everything really did go just his way that night :(

osubbfan

04-20-2008, 09:04 PM

Some new articles from the Reno newspaper. Nothing really new but gives some insight into what LE has been doing on this case.

Manhunt continues for Denison’s killer (http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080420/NEWS18/80420017&OAS_sitepage=news.rgj.com%2Fbreakingnews)

What’s known about the UNR serial rapist (http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080420/NEWS18/80420018&OAS_sitepage=news.rgj.com%2Fbreakingnews)

sunstar

04-20-2008, 09:27 PM

Originally posted by Rosieo

That's what I've wondered, too, if he didn't start out intending to kill her, but for whatever reason it just didn't go as he planned.

It seems so insane (or stupid) to me to go into a person's home, but I guess maybe in their mind, they feel they're safer with their violence contained then inside that home....and that, in the middle of the night, of course, they have the "upper hand" since everyone is sleeping. [/*]
Not much of what we know about him makes sense, like returning the Dec. victim back to her apartment. The only thing I can rationalize about his behavior is he did threaten the Dec. victim if she talked to police, and he did return to her apartment the night before abducting Brianna but found she wasn't there. So I believe the anger he intended to take out on her was used on Brianna instead and he made sure Brianna wouldn't be able to talk. MOO :)

sunstar

04-20-2008, 09:28 PM

Originally posted by osubbfan
Some new articles from the Reno newspaper. Nothing really new but gives some insight into what LE has been doing on this case.

Manhunt continues for Denison’s killer (http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080420/NEWS18/80420017&OAS_sitepage=news.rgj.com%2Fbreakingnews)

What’s known about the UNR serial rapist (http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080420/NEWS18/80420018&OAS_sitepage=news.rgj.com%2Fbreakingnews) [/*]
Thanks so much :) At least we know LE is still diligently trying to capture him.

Rosieo

04-20-2008, 10:03 PM

Originally posted by sunstar

Thanks so much :) At least we know LE is still diligently trying to capture him. [/*]

It is nice to know they're not letting it die. In regards to this part:

Police also have checked out locations in the Double Diamond area near where Denison’s body was found.

“We think he may have some significant connection to that area too, but that remains to be seen,” McDonald said. “It’s hard to say at this point. He probably does have some connection.”

What is the Double Diamond area? The area of businesses where she was found?

Politigal

04-20-2008, 10:48 PM

Originally posted by osubbfan
Some new articles from the Reno newspaper. Nothing really new but gives some insight into what LE has been doing on this case.

Manhunt continues for Denison’s killer (http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080420/NEWS18/80420017&OAS_sitepage=news.rgj.com%2Fbreakingnews)

What’s known about the UNR serial rapist (http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080420/NEWS18/80420018&OAS_sitepage=news.rgj.com%2Fbreakingnews) [/*]

the article says the truck used was similar to a Toyota Tacoma -
here's a pic of a 2005 interior

http://www.toyotaoffroad.com/Articles/Toyota/2005_Tacoma/Images/05_Tacoma_ACab_20.jpg

Rosieo

04-20-2008, 11:07 PM

Originally posted by Politigal

the article says the truck used was similar to a Toyota Tacoma -
here's a pic of a 2005 interior

http://www.toyotaoffroad.com/Articles/Toyota/2005_Tacoma/Images/05_Tacoma_ACab_20.jpg [/*]

Thanks for the link, politigal - I was looking at the interior - I'd wondered before when I heard the "red and blue" bars if she'd gotten confused with the air conditioning - I'm just looking at the dashboard of the Tacoma and directly beneath the radio, there's a place for separate passenger and driver air controls - which could very easily be confused as part of the radio when the red and blue bars are lit.

http://autos.yahoo.com/2008_toyota_truck_tacoma_4x4_access_cab_v6_automat ic-slideshow/?tab=gen&i=izp_instrumentpanel&a=all#imgs

sunstar

04-20-2008, 11:12 PM

Originally posted by Rosieo

It is nice to know they're not letting it die. In regards to this part:

Police also have checked out locations in the Double Diamond area near where Denison’s body was found.

“We think he may have some significant connection to that area too, but that remains to be seen,” McDonald said. “It’s hard to say at this point. He probably does have some connection.”

What is the Double Diamond area? The area of businesses where she was found? [/*]
It sounds like it is, but I have no idea since I don't live there! If that is the business area, I had thought there might be a connection when Brianna was found, such as he may have been watching, waiting for her to be found. Or he knew the area and it was a good place to drop her without him being seen.

sunstar

04-20-2008, 11:13 PM

Originally posted by Politigal

the article says the truck used was similar to a Toyota Tacoma -
here's a pic of a 2005 interior

http://www.toyotaoffroad.com/Articles/Toyota/2005_Tacoma/Images/05_Tacoma_ACab_20.jpg [/*]
Do I get a prize for this??? I posted a link to the Tacoma as a possibility because of the placement of the dome light and the interior! :biggrin:

Rosieo

04-20-2008, 11:26 PM

Originally posted by sunstar

Do I get a prize for this??? I posted a link to the Tacoma as a possibility because of the placement of the dome light and the interior! :biggrin: [/*]

dingdingding! You get the kewpie doll! LOL I do remember you posting that - if you look at the dashboard, it is entirely possible that the red and blue bars she saw, thinking they were on the radio, were actually for the seprately controlled drive and passenger climate control.

sunstar

04-20-2008, 11:30 PM

Originally posted by Rosieo

dingdingding! You get the kewpie doll! LOL I do remember you posting that - if you look at the dashboard, it is entirely possible that the red and blue bars she saw, thinking they were on the radio, were actually for the seprately controlled drive and passenger climate control. [/*]
Oh, thank you!! :D It's the only one I could find with those two features ~ the dome light up by the windshield and the red display on the stereo. I too think the blue could be the A/C.

Rosieo

04-20-2008, 11:38 PM

Originally posted by sunstar

Oh, thank you!! :D It's the only one I could find with those two features ~ the dome light up by the windshield and the red display on the stereo. I too think the blue could be the A/C. [/*]

:beer: The way the climate control is positioned, long and skinny, directly under the radio, it would be very easy to get confused -it didn't show it lit in the photo, I'm trying to find one with it lit, but there are red and blue bars, vertically, that are lit more red or more blue according to the temp - I'd be willing to bet that's what she saw, the red and blue bars on the right side of the radio, were actually on the right side, directly beneath the radio.

Politigal

04-20-2008, 11:43 PM

here's one for sale in Reno (a 2002)
http://www.vehiclepro.net/harrysautomall/truck/7099P/8.jpg

Rosieo

04-20-2008, 11:46 PM

Originally posted by Politigal
here's one for sale in Reno (a 2002)
http://www.vehiclepro.net/harrysautomall/truck/7099P/8.jpg [/*]

Fits the description perfectly, too - I sure hope LE is watching Tacomas for sale! I would assume they are.

Politigal

04-21-2008, 01:00 AM

Originally posted by Rosieo

Fits the description perfectly, too - I sure hope LE is watching Tacomas for sale! I would assume they are. [/*]

I was checking craigslist for those vehicles for sale in Reno and found several

http://reno.craigslist.org/search/sss?query=toyota+tacoma&minAsk=min&maxAsk=max

gestalt

04-21-2008, 11:52 AM

Wow. That's great research on the vehicles. High-fives to you.

Another thought:

This has run through everyone's mind, I'm sure, but is there any chance that the vehicle was "stolen" and returned before the owner was aware of it?

gestalt

04-21-2008, 12:21 PM

by "stolen" I am thinking something like a vehicle left long term with an auto repair person. Then he cleans out the vehicle and removes the baby shoe after he realizes it is there.

sunstar

04-21-2008, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by gestalt
Wow. That's great research on the vehicles. High-fives to you.

Another thought:

This has run through everyone's mind, I'm sure, but is there any chance that the vehicle was "stolen" and returned before the owner was aware of it? [/*]
Good thoughts about it being at an auto repair when he used it. I remember reading too where LE even thought he may have borrowed the truck from someone.

Rosieo

04-21-2008, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by sunstar

Good thoughts about it being at an auto repair when he used it. I remember reading too where LE even thought he may have borrowed the truck from someone. [/*]

That could be --- but if that were the case, I would think - hope - that someone that has a truck fitting that description would have called in a tip that his truck was in the shop when Bri was taken? Then again, if it were me, I don't know that I would because the guy would maybe feel he was casting suspicion on himself, like "wasn't me! My car was in the shop!"

Politigal

04-21-2008, 02:26 PM

http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080420/NEWS18/80420021&theme=

The woman who owns the other pair found with Denison’s body has identified the undergarment but has no idea how they went missing. Police said they could have been taken when Denison was kidnapped or stolen by the killer in a previous visit to the residence.

gestalt

04-21-2008, 02:36 PM

Whoa, thanks for finding that comment about the underwear.

Another thought on what I wrote before
If the vehicle was "stolen" used by a car repair person who did this, could it not be that person had a home business fixing vehicles, for instance.

sunstar

04-21-2008, 02:41 PM

Originally posted by Rosieo

That could be --- but if that were the case, I would think - hope - that someone that has a truck fitting that description would have called in a tip that his truck was in the shop when Bri was taken? Then again, if it were me, I don't know that I would because the guy would maybe feel he was casting suspicion on himself, like "wasn't me! My car was in the shop!" [/*]
The only thing that makes me want to eliminate this idea is the papers on the passenger floorboard. Most people don't leave important stuff in their car when it goes to the shop, even if it's been in an accident. I'm still inclined to think he works outdoors, like in construction.

sunstar

04-21-2008, 02:45 PM

Originally posted by Politigal
http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080420/NEWS18/80420021&theme=

The woman who owns the other pair found with Denison’s body has identified the undergarment but has no idea how they went missing. Police said they could have been taken when Denison was kidnapped or stolen by the killer in a previous visit to the residence. [/*]
Thank you :) This just makes me think even more that he'd been in the house before, or even that evening when the tenants were out. Maybe he was even going through their dresser or laundry.

gestalt

04-21-2008, 02:50 PM

I can just imagine him thinking: thanks for inviting me in and even laughing about it because they left the door open always and he was probably in there on numerous occasions.

gestalt

04-21-2008, 02:57 PM

Rosieo:

Here's another "seemingly normal" person for you:

Truck Painter, Gary Ridgeway - Green River Killer

http://www.missingpeople.net/policeeyeussuspectinbckillings.htm

Check out all of the information on his neighbors' impressions.

sunstar

04-21-2008, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by gestalt
I can just imagine him thinking: thanks for inviting me in and even laughing about it because they left the door open always and he was probably in there on numerous occasions. [/*]
It's a scary thought, but it could be possible. I just still can't get over them leaving the doors unlocked all the time. Are young people in college that oblivious to what goes on in the world and think they're immune from it?

gestalt

04-21-2008, 03:10 PM

Yes, I believe that they are. I find it unbelievable that after the murders on the Madison campus, that there was no mention of other campuses in the U.S. having murders, like Brianna! They just had a huge street party going on in the area where Brittany Zimmerman was murdered.

sunstar

04-21-2008, 03:15 PM

Originally posted by gestalt
Yes, I believe that they are. I find it unbelievable that after the murders on the Madison campus, that there was no mention of other campuses in the U.S. having murders, like Brianna! They just had a huge street party going on in the area where Brittany Zimmerman was murdered. [/*]
There just seem to be so many that we've followed recently (Taylor Biehl, Tiffany Souers to name a couple more examples), along with murders of college-age women committed by other serial killers years ago like Danny Rollins in Florida, and of course, Ted Bundy.

gestalt

04-21-2008, 03:21 PM

I agree. That was the name, Danny Rollins, the freak who decapitated the college girls in FL.

gestalt

04-21-2008, 03:31 PM

Article about Danny Rolling, murder of college students, Gainesville, FL:

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial/rolling/rolling/

sunstar

04-21-2008, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by gestalt
Article about Danny Rolling, murder of college students, Gainesville, FL:

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial/rolling/rolling/ [/*]
If this perp were like Rolling, imo, the other girls would've been assaulted & murdered and all three left there in the house.

Rosieo

04-21-2008, 05:23 PM

Originally posted by sunstar

Thank you :) This just makes me think even more that he'd been in the house before, or even that evening when the tenants were out. Maybe he was even going through their dresser or laundry. [/*]

ITA - my heart started beating faster when I read this, I thought it was about the PP undies.

omsk99

04-21-2008, 06:29 PM

~snip

"He said Denison's killer left the panties at the scene, either on purpose or by accident. The items weren't "posed," as though the killer wanted them found, so they may have dropped out of his pocket when he moved Denison's body.

"Did they come from another of the man's victims of an unreported assault?" MacDonald asked. "Did he steal them in a burglary or from someone at a laundromat? Did the owner once date this guy?

"Somehow, this woman came into contact with the killer. If she comes forward, it may be the break we need."

He said the owner of the panties need not fear publicity.

"Anything she tells us will be treated confidentially," he said.

The woman who owns the other pair found with Denison's body has identified the undergarment but has no idea how they went missing.

"From what we understand, the door to that house was left unlocked at all hours," MacDonald said. "And the woman who owns them isn't sure when they went missing."

http://www.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080421/NEWS01/804210346/1321

omsk99

04-21-2008, 06:31 PM

http://www.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080421/NEWS01/804210345/1321

gestalt

04-21-2008, 07:12 PM

Rollings, the murderer in FL, was employed as a carpet cleaner. That is another job that would get you into people's apartments, homes.

sunstar

04-21-2008, 09:12 PM

Originally posted by omsk99
http://www.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080421/NEWS01/804210345/1321 [/*]
I just picked up on something else that really hasn't been mentioned much before ~

"He probably doesn't have a high-paying job and might be unemployed. He isn't comfortable around women and would not stand out in a crowd."

Does that mean he may not have a wife or girlfriend after all? What would explain the baby shoe in the truck, if we assume it's his truck? And, what businesses (other than the Chinese restaurant) are in the area Brianna was found, such as are they offices that may need nighttime janitors? Or is there any new construction going on in that area?

Rosieo

04-22-2008, 02:10 AM

Rosieo

04-22-2008, 02:14 AM

Originally posted by gestalt
Rollings, the murderer in FL, was employed as a carpet cleaner. That is another job that would get you into people's apartments, homes. [/*]

True! Or a cable installer, if they had cable installed when they moved in - telephone company employee if they had jacks installed for phones or anything, an electrician for a 220 line for the laundry room? Whenever I have someone in to do something when my husband is at work - carpet installer or carpet cleaner, cable guy, etc, I have a neighbor come over and my husband thinks that's so silly. He says "Come on, they're bonded and insured and they work for the company, what are they gonna do?" I always tell him he's very naive that way. Just because someone has a job means nothing at all.

osubbfan

04-22-2008, 06:50 AM

Another article and video. Again, no new information but at least it is not fading into the background with the media.

3 months later Bri's killer still at large (http://www.krnv.com/Global/story.asp?S=8202362&nav=menu113_2)

I found another interesting article that is not directly connected to Bri's case but certainly related.

Nevada leads in women killed by men in the US (http://www.krnv.com/Global/story.asp?S=8192580)

edit to add: I thought this quote was worth highlighting given the recent discussion here.
"When you're a younger person, a lot of times you don't see the dangerous situations in which you get yourself into and we want to raise that awareness," said Adam Garcia.

gestalt

04-22-2008, 12:41 PM

Rosieo -

I thought that someone on this thread who was from Reno WAS mapping out what businesses were in that vacinity. Now, I may be confused because I post on this board and another board on this case, but I know that one business is a manufacturer of slot machines/casino equipment, that is per someone who lives there.

Also, maybe the roommates were not there or do not remember when someone came in to fix something in the apartment. My immediate thought about the Rolling carpet cleaner thing is that after a party, for instance, students might call in a carpet cleaner to take care of the stains, etc. This could even be someone from that party down the street that they were investigating.

I'm sorry if this is confusing, because the above contains, this, that and the other thing.

Rosieo

04-22-2008, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by osubbfan
Another article and video. Again, no new information but at least it is not fading into the background with the media.

3 months later Bri's killer still at large (http://www.krnv.com/Global/story.asp?S=8202362&nav=menu113_2)

Wasn't she abducted on the 20th? That article said the 19th - new info, or are they confused, or am I confused?

I found another interesting article that is not directly connected to Bri's case but certainly related.

Nevada leads in women killed by men in the US (http://www.krnv.com/Global/story.asp?S=8192580)

edit to add: I thought this quote was worth highlighting given the recent discussion here.
"When you're a younger person, a lot of times you don't see the dangerous situations in which you get yourself into and we want to raise that awareness," said Adam Garcia. [/*]

That is unfortunately so true - remembering when I was 19, oftentimes I say it's a wonder I made it this far - I did some really stupid things.

Rosieo

04-22-2008, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by gestalt
Rosieo -

I thought that someone on this thread who was from Reno WAS mapping out what businesses were in that vacinity. Now, I may be confused because I post on this board and another board on this case, but I know that one business is a manufacturer of slot machines/casino equipment, that is per someone who lives there.

Also, maybe the roommates were not there or do not remember when someone came in to fix something in the apartment. My immediate thought about the Rolling carpet cleaner thing is that after a party, for instance, students might call in a carpet cleaner to take care of the stains, etc. This could even be someone from that party down the street that they were investigating.

I'm sorry if this is confusing, because the above contains, this, that and the other thing. [/*]

someone was mapping out the businesses, I forget who now - Silex or maybe Butterfly? That's how I remembered about the 24 hour gym being there. It wasn't confusing at all, and that could very well be. With them in and out all the time and with the door unlocked all the time, there's no telling who was in there at different times. They may have even told repair people, carpet cleaners, etc "we won't be home, the door's unlocked, just go in and do whatever you need to do." They seem pretty trusting and free-spirited - or did, anyway - the girls - don't know much about the male roomies except that I saw the one roomie's myspace site at one point and he looks like quite the partier, blacking out for days at a time, etc.

sunstar

04-22-2008, 03:26 PM

Originally posted by Rosieo

That is unfortunately so true - remembering when I was 19, oftentimes I say it's a wonder I made it this far - I did some really stupid things. [/*]
I think we all did, Rosieo, but even 20 yrs. ago it was a little safer than now, but I never left my apartment door unlocked, even during daytime! :)

omsk99

04-22-2008, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by sunstar

I just picked up on something else that really hasn't been mentioned much before ~

"He probably doesn't have a high-paying job and might be unemployed. He isn't comfortable around women and would not stand out in a crowd."

Does that mean he may not have a wife or girlfriend after all? What would explain the baby shoe in the truck, if we assume it's his truck? And, what businesses (other than the Chinese restaurant) are in the area Brianna was found, such as are they offices that may need nighttime janitors? Or is there any new construction going on in that area? [/*]

That was the first time I rea about that, too. I wonder if they think he might ne unemployed because he is out in the middle of the night, meaning he doesn't need to get up in the morning, and also because he has time to deal with the victims and dispose of their bodies, if he kills them (who knows if Brianna was his first murder victim :flamemad: ).

The fact that he probably doesn't stand out in hte crowd is scary, that means he looks like a normal a guy a young girl might trust or at least not consider a threat, although it seems he attacks girsl from behind or kidnaps them, like Brianna, in their sleep so they don't even get a chance to see him.

Rosieo

04-22-2008, 05:16 PM

Originally posted by sunstar

I think we all did, Rosieo, but even 20 yrs. ago it was a little safer than now, but I never left my apartment door unlocked, even during daytime! :) [/*]

Same here - that's one thing I never, ever did. Even now, I work at home and my office is on the lower level so I'm down here all day and usually half the night LOL, and I won't leave the doors open with the screens locked in the summer because someone could come in and I'd never hear them - working on moving my office upstairs for that reason - but I just don't take any chances. That part of this whole thing is surprising to me - NOT criticizing, in case someone takes that wrong, or placing blame - I would never, ever do that - but the way they lived, with the door unlocked all the time and just locking their bedroom doors - I would be terrified to do that! I'd never get to sleep! No matter where you live nowadays, that's just not safe.

sunstar

04-22-2008, 05:25 PM

Originally posted by omsk99

That was the first time I rea about that, too. I wonder if they think he might ne unemployed because he is out in the middle of the night, meaning he doesn't need to get up in the morning, and also because he has time to deal with the victims and dispose of their bodies, if he kills them (who knows if Brianna was his first murder victim :flamemad: ).

The fact that he probably doesn't stand out in hte crowd is scary, that means he looks like a normal a guy a young girl might trust or at least not consider a threat, although it seems he attacks girsl from behind or kidnaps them, like Brianna, in their sleep so they don't even get a chance to see him. [/*]
I'm still trying to figure out how they profiled his employment status, especially in an area where there would be several different occupations that would have swingshift or graveyard hours. Maybe they got the idea he's uncomfortable around women from the manner in which he attacks them, that he has no socializing skills or can't gain their trust if he approaches them face to face, like Ted Bundy did for example. Just my thoughts! :)

sunstar

04-22-2008, 05:29 PM

Originally posted by Rosieo

Same here - that's one thing I never, ever did. Even now, I work at home and my office is on the lower level so I'm down here all day and usually half the night LOL, and I won't leave the doors open with the screens locked in the summer because someone could come in and I'd never hear them - working on moving my office upstairs for that reason - but I just don't take any chances. That part of this whole thing is surprising to me - NOT criticizing, in case someone takes that wrong, or placing blame - I would never, ever do that - but the way they lived, with the door unlocked all the time and just locking their bedroom doors - I would be terrified to do that! I'd never get to sleep! No matter where you live nowadays, that's just not safe. [/*]
I'm not meaning to be critical either, but this is something that just can't be stressed enough and lots of people read the board here. I'm sure Brianna's friends are totally heartsick about what happened and do wish now that they had locked the doors and covered the windows. It must be frightening to them to think he could've been in the house more often than just that moment he abducted Brianna and that he'd been going through their things while in there.

Rosieo

04-22-2008, 05:29 PM

Originally posted by sunstar

I'm still trying to figure out how they profiled his employment status, especially in an area where there would be several different occupations that would have swingshift or graveyard hours. Maybe they got the idea he's uncomfortable around women from the manner in which he attacks them, that he has no socializing skills or can't gain their trust if he approaches them face to face, like Ted Bundy did for example. Just my thoughts! :) [/*]

That is puzzling, how they'd come to the conclusion that he may be unemployed...as you said, there are a lot of graveyard shift jobs in the casinos, etc. If he even worked 3-11, that gave him time to lurk, watch, get Bri, dispose of her body and still get some rest before work, so not sure how they came to that conclusion. Makes me wonder if they know more than we know they do.

sunstar

04-22-2008, 05:33 PM

Originally posted by Rosieo

That is puzzling, how they'd come to the conclusion that he may be unemployed...as you said, there are a lot of graveyard shift jobs in the casinos, etc. If he even worked 3-11, that gave him time to lurk, watch, get Bri, dispose of her body and still get some rest before work, so not sure how they came to that conclusion. Makes me wonder if they know more than we know they do. [/*]
This might not have anything to do with their theory, but the victim did notice several typewritten papers on the floorboard. Would there have been enough light for her to see what they were and if that could lead LE to thie possibility? Or, I wonder, is this just a generalized profile and if he is unemployed, could he have left the area? :shrug:

Rosieo

04-22-2008, 05:33 PM

Originally posted by sunstar

I'm not meaning to be critical either, but this is something that just can't be stressed enough and lots of people read the board here. I'm sure Brianna's friends are totally heartsick about what happened and do wish now that they had locked the doors and covered the windows. It must be frightening to them to think he could've been in the house more often than just that moment he abducted Brianna and that he'd been going through their things while in there. [/*]

It would be a horrible feeling. I'm one of those types of people that would beat myself up with guilt forever. Again, not placing blame or saying it's their fault - we all SHOULD be safe in our own homes but sadly, that's just not the case.

Rosieo

04-22-2008, 05:35 PM

Originally posted by sunstar

This might not have anything to do with their theory, but the victim did notice several typewritten papers on the floorboard. Would there have been enough light for her to see what they were and if that could lead LE to thie possibility? Or, I wonder, is this just a generalized profile and if he is unemployed, could he have left the area? :shrug: [/*]

It could be that they have info they're holding back - it could be anything - maybe she couldn't see what they were but saw a big bold Unemployment Office heading on them or something.....I'm pretty sure LE has a lot of info they haven't released.

sunstar

04-22-2008, 05:52 PM

Originally posted by Rosieo

It could be that they have info they're holding back - it could be anything - maybe she couldn't see what they were but saw a big bold Unemployment Office heading on them or something.....I'm pretty sure LE has a lot of info they haven't released. [/*]
That's what I was thinking, they're not going to release everything they know and she might have seen something like that. Hopefully!! :)

Rosieo

04-22-2008, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by sunstar

That's what I was thinking, they're not going to release everything they know and she might have seen something like that. Hopefully!! :) [/*]

I hope so - I hope they got a lot of info from her and a lot from the scene that will nail him! Whoever the scumbag is has got to be plenty nervous at all she remembered, and wondering what else she remembered that LE hasn't released.

sunstar

04-22-2008, 09:08 PM

Originally posted by Rosieo

I hope so - I hope they got a lot of info from her and a lot from the scene that will nail him! Whoever the scumbag is has got to be plenty nervous at all she remembered, and wondering what else she remembered that LE hasn't released. [/*]
I'd imagine there are a lot more things that LE hasn't released, either from the Dec. attack or Brianna's murder and he should be scared not knowing how close LE might be to closing in on him.

Politigal

04-22-2008, 09:15 PM

It was interesting to me....in the latest news reports...it said there were a few guys who refused to submit their DNA, and they were having to be eliminated in other ways.

It seems that would automatically raise a red flag IMO.

sunstar

04-22-2008, 10:06 PM

Originally posted by Politigal
It was interesting to me....in the latest news reports...it said there were a few guys who refused to submit their DNA, and they were having to be eliminated in other ways.

It seems that would automatically raise a red flag IMO. [/*]
It kind of makes you wonder if this perp isn't amongst those guys what other crimes they might have committed that they're afraid to give DNA. If I were innocent I'd want to be cleared! :)

Rosieo

04-22-2008, 10:42 PM

Rosieo

04-22-2008, 10:43 PM

Originally posted by sunstar

It kind of makes you wonder if this perp isn't amongst those guys what other crimes they might have committed that they're afraid to give DNA. If I were innocent I'd want to be cleared! :) [/*]

Exactly! If you have nothing to hide, you really shouldn't have a problem giving DNA - I wouldn't have any problem with it -

Zaun

04-22-2008, 10:43 PM

Originally posted by sunstar

It's a scary thought, but it could be possible. I just still can't get over them leaving the doors unlocked all the time. Are young people in college that oblivious to what goes on in the world and think they're immune from it? [/*]

I think she passed out from the drinking and partying. Easy target . IMO

Zaun

04-22-2008, 10:46 PM

Originally posted by Politigal
It was interesting to me....in the latest news reports...it said there were a few guys who refused to submit their DNA, and they were having to be eliminated in other ways.

It seems that would automatically raise a red flag IMO. [/*]

As a guy. There is NO WAY I would give them my dna you never know how that could bite you. imo

Rosieo

04-22-2008, 10:52 PM

Originally posted by Zaun

I think she passed out from the drinking and partying. Easy target . IMO [/*]

Nowhere has that been said. And NO-ONE in a private home, sleeping should ever be considered an "easy target" - you make it sound like she got drunk and passed out on the curb downtown. It's been reported to LE and the media that she had a couple of drinks and was not drunk - which is a moot point, because it's totally irrelevant, IMO.

Rosieo

04-22-2008, 10:54 PM

Originally posted by Zaun

As a guy. There is NO WAY I would give them my dna you never know how that could bite you. imo [/*]

The ONLY way DNA can ever bite you is if you do or have done something illegal...or of course, if you're trying to deny paternity. :chicken:

osubbfan

04-23-2008, 06:31 AM

Originally posted by Zaun

I think she passed out from the drinking and partying. Easy target . IMO [/*]

I don't know your story, but IMO anyone that would ever consider another human being an "easy target" has some issues they should pay more attention to.

gestalt

04-23-2008, 10:40 AM

Originally posted by gestalt
Article about Danny Rolling, murder of college students, Gainesville, FL:

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial/rolling/rolling/ [/*]

Note that within this article:

Task Force Formed

It was soon clear that the three murders were definitely linked. At both scenes, underwear were missing.

gestalt

04-23-2008, 11:31 AM

Is the suspect camping somewhere as so many murderers do, and note how he stalked:

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-22632729_ITM

The first two victims Danny Rolling spotted at a Wal-Mart, getting their apartment together for the beginning of the semester. He set up camp in woods

wandering

04-23-2008, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by Rosieo

True! Or a cable installer, if they had cable installed when they moved in - telephone company employee if they had jacks installed for phones or anything, an electrician for a 220 line for the laundry room? Whenever I have someone in to do something when my husband is at work - carpet installer or carpet cleaner, cable guy, etc, I have a neighbor come over and my husband thinks that's so silly. He says "Come on, they're bonded and insured and they work for the company, what are they gonna do?" I always tell him he's very naive that way. Just because someone has a job means nothing at all. [/*]Rosieo, you are absolutely right. Many of those types of jobs hire ex-cons. Especially the carpet layers. And hide your prescription drugs, some of them like those. :chicken:

Wasn't it the Boston Strangler who had a job in the service field?

gestalt

04-23-2008, 11:46 AM

There are some things that are in the control of students to protect themselves and obviously there are things that are completely out of their control.

My question is this:

Should college students be educated about crimes that happened in the past and present on campuses, or not?

Would it be helpful or harmful; in other words, cause paranoia and fear beyond what is needed?

I want to know what your opinions are.

gestalt

04-23-2008, 11:59 AM

I know it was Victims of Crime week but I think that students need more of an education about this, so that they are not only aware and take precautions, but also remember the victims in a way that makes an impact on their lives.

gestalt

04-23-2008, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by wandering
Rosieo, you are absolutely right. Many of those types of jobs hire ex-cons. Especially the carpet layers. And hide your prescription drugs, some of them like those. :chicken:

Wasn't it the Boston Strangler who had a job in the service field? [/*]

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/notorious/boston/4.html

When police questioned the neighbors, Mrs. Marcella Lulka who lived in the same building mentioned that around 2:20 that afternoon a man had knocked on her door and said that the super had sent him to see her about painting her apartment. He then told her that he'd have to fix her bathroom ceiling and complimented her on her figure. "Have you ever thought of modeling?" he asked her.

Reference about college students from DeSalvo, the murderer:

When asked why he perpetrated this pathetic charade, he responded: "I'm not good-looking, I'm not educated, but I was able to put something over on high-class people. They were all college kids and I never had anything in my life and I outsmarted them."
-------------

Note from me: this is why I asked earlier if the suspect has anger toward college students.

wandering

04-23-2008, 12:23 PM

Originally posted by gestalt

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/notorious/boston/4.html

When police questioned the neighbors, Mrs. Marcella Lulka who lived in the same building mentioned that around 2:20 that afternoon a man had knocked on her door and said that the super had sent him to see her about painting her apartment. He then told her that he'd have to fix her bathroom ceiling and complimented her on her figure. "Have you ever thought of modeling?" he asked her. [/*]Thanks. When I was in a hotel in NY, two men knocked on my door and said they had to check the plumbing. Dumb me, I let them in. They messed around in my BR, and when they realized there were other people (including a man) in the back of my suite that I was talking to, they left. I later found out that no one had been sent to check anything. Lesson: Don't let anyone in until you call the alleged sender. :chicken:

gestalt

04-23-2008, 12:33 PM

Other jobs DeSalvo, a "family man" had:

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/notorious/boston/9.html

After he worked as a press operator at American Biltrite Rubber, he worked in a shipyard and subsequently as a construction maintenance worker.

sunstar

04-23-2008, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by gestalt
There are some things that are in the control of students to protect themselves and obviously there are things that are completely out of their control.

My question is this:

Should college students be educated about crimes that happened in the past and present on campuses, or not?

Would it be helpful or harmful; in other words, cause paranoia and fear beyond what is needed?

I want to know what your opinions are. [/*]
Yes I think they should, and while you're on the subject of Danny Rolling, maybe show them some of the crime scene photos? I think a lot of people just think "this won't happen to me" and need to know "it CAN happen". College students are especially vulnerable to these predators since it's their first time away from home and they are used to someone else taking care of them. Excessive partying doesn't help either since it can unwittingly invite the wrong person into the house, and the tenant's guard is down, so to speak. MOO :)

Rosieo

04-23-2008, 01:37 PM

Originally posted by osubbfan

I don't know your story, but IMO anyone that would ever consider another human being an "easy target" has some issues they should pay more attention to. [/*]

ITA, OSU - strange that anyone would think in those terms - normal, sane people don't abduct and kill girls no matter how "easy" of a "target" they are....and sleeping on a couch at a friend's home would only make someone a "target" to someone insane, IMO.

omsk99

04-23-2008, 03:10 PM

For months, a few square blocks just west of the University of Nevada, Reno has been ground zero in a manhunt.

Police officers go door-to-door meeting residents, asking questions and, in some cases, requesting DNA from men who fit one or more characteristics of a description of a serial rapist turned killer. Behind the scenes, detectives investigate phone tips that still come in at the rate of 20 or 30 a day. They keep an eye on bulletins from other jurisdictions in case the killer has left Reno and is hunting his prey elsewhere.

The search for Brianna Denison's killer continues quietly. The investigation of a case based on DNA fingerprinting is down to old-fashioned shoe leather.

"It's been very frustrating," Reno police Lt. Bob McDonald said. "We know his DNA name, we just don't know who to put that name to. It's been a roller coaster. Several people have looked good (as potential suspects) based on circumstantial evidence, but then their DNA sample is processed, and we're back to square one; we're on the hunt again.

"It's frustrating for the Denison family, too. They want this guy in jail, and we all want to make sure this won't happen again to some other young woman."

More at the link:

http://www.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080421/NEWS01/804210343/1321/NEWS

Rosieo

04-23-2008, 03:47 PM

Originally posted by omsk99
For months, a few square blocks just west of the University of Nevada, Reno has been ground zero in a manhunt.

Police officers go door-to-door meeting residents, asking questions and, in some cases, requesting DNA from men who fit one or more characteristics of a description of a serial rapist turned killer. Behind the scenes, detectives investigate phone tips that still come in at the rate of 20 or 30 a day. They keep an eye on bulletins from other jurisdictions in case the killer has left Reno and is hunting his prey elsewhere.

The search for Brianna Denison's killer continues quietly. The investigation of a case based on DNA fingerprinting is down to old-fashioned shoe leather.

"It's been very frustrating," Reno police Lt. Bob McDonald said. "We know his DNA name, we just don't know who to put that name to. It's been a roller coaster. Several people have looked good (as potential suspects) based on circumstantial evidence, but then their DNA sample is processed, and we're back to square one; we're on the hunt again.

"It's frustrating for the Denison family, too. They want this guy in jail, and we all want to make sure this won't happen again to some other young woman."

More at the link:

http://www.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080421/NEWS01/804210343/1321/NEWS [/*]

I still feel SO confident they're going to get him - it's just a matter of time. It seems long to us, but really, 12 weeks is not that long in a murder investigation, not one like there's no clear suspect right away....and they have a LOT more on this guy than they usually do in these cases. They'll get him.

Jpanda

04-23-2008, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by omsk99
For months, a few square blocks just west of the University of Nevada, Reno has been ground zero in a manhunt.

Police officers go door-to-door meeting residents, asking questions and, in some cases, requesting DNA from men who fit one or more characteristics of a description of a serial rapist turned killer. Behind the scenes, detectives investigate phone tips that still come in at the rate of 20 or 30 a day. They keep an eye on bulletins from other jurisdictions in case the killer has left Reno and is hunting his prey elsewhere.

The search for Brianna Denison's killer continues quietly. The investigation of a case based on DNA fingerprinting is down to old-fashioned shoe leather.

"It's been very frustrating," Reno police Lt. Bob McDonald said. "We know his DNA name, we just don't know who to put that name to. It's been a roller coaster. Several people have looked good (as potential suspects) based on circumstantial evidence, but then their DNA sample is processed, and we're back to square one; we're on the hunt again.

"It's frustrating for the Denison family, too. They want this guy in jail, and we all want to make sure this won't happen again to some other young woman."

More at the link:

http://www.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080421/NEWS01/804210343/1321/NEWS [/*]

Wow, thanks for the update, omsk99! It's good to know that they're still very actively looking for this maniac - even going door-to-door! They REALLY must have some strong suspiscions that he's even still in the area.

JMO

omsk99

04-23-2008, 06:08 PM

Originally posted by Jpanda

Wow, thanks for the update, omsk99! It's good to know that they're still very actively looking for this maniac - even going door-to-door! They REALLY must have some strong suspiscions that he's even still in the area.

JMO [/*]

You're welcome, Jpanda! I am, too, glad they are still so actively pursuing this case, and that the media is still keeping it 'alive'. It does sound like LE think he is in the area, since they are taking DNA and searching 'door-to-door'. I wonder why that is, because he might have limited means (their profile is that he is either low-paid or unemployed)?.. But take Gary Hilton, for exmaple, he was homeless, but traveled through various states. I do have confidence they will catch him; hopefully they can find out to whom the PP underwear belong to, I am sure it will be a huge break in the case.

osubbfan

04-23-2008, 06:38 PM

Originally posted by Rosieo

I still feel SO confident they're going to get him - it's just a matter of time. It seems long to us, but really, 12 weeks is not that long in a murder investigation, not one like there's no clear suspect right away....and they have a LOT more on this guy than they usually do in these cases. They'll get him. [/*]

They will indeed. I'm confident that they have him in their sights. Their recent interviews seem to say otherwise but IMO that is just smokescreen. I believe they want him to start to feel more comfortable, let down his guard and give them what they need to make the arrest. It is going to happen. The semester should be ending soon and I'm sure many of the students will be leaving for the summer. He will expose himself.

Rosieo

04-23-2008, 06:46 PM

Originally posted by osubbfan

They will indeed. I'm confident that they have him in their sights. Their recent interviews seem to say otherwise but IMO that is just smokescreen. I believe they want him to start to feel more comfortable, let down his guard and give them what they need to make the arrest. It is going to happen. The semester should be ending soon and I'm sure many of the students will be leaving for the summer. He will expose himself. [/*]

I agree - he will do something stupid and it'll be just what they need. It seems this is his first murder (hopefully) and that inexperience, for lack of a better way to put it, is what will get him caught.

Zaun

04-23-2008, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by Rosieo

The ONLY way DNA can ever bite you is if you do or have done something illegal...or of course, if you're trying to deny paternity. :chicken: [/*]

There is also lab contamination. If you never give your dna than you wouldn't run this risk. imo

Zaun

04-23-2008, 08:07 PM

Originally posted by osubbfan

I don't know your story, but IMO anyone that would ever consider another human being an "easy target" has some issues they should pay more attention to. [/*]

The perp was looking for an opportunity and found it. Easy in that she was either asleep or passed out and an unlocked door which he could see in from the street. It was pretty straight forward. imo

Brattnt

04-23-2008, 08:14 PM

Originally posted by Zaun

The perp was looking for an opportunity and found it. Easy in that she was either asleep or passed out and an unlocked door which he could see in from the street. It was pretty straight forward. imo [/*]Dont come here and start your crap Reed...I will report you in a heartbeat...Brianna is dead...She was murdered....Now take your victim bashing elsewhere!....:cuss:

MOO

omsk99

04-23-2008, 08:35 PM

Zaun

04-23-2008, 08:46 PM

Originally posted by Brattnt
Dont come here and start your crap Reed...I will report you in a heartbeat...Brianna is dead...She was murdered....Now take your victim bashing elsewhere!....:cuss:

MOO [/*]

Speaking for my post, I see no " victim bashing" it is just what has been showed to have happened. I have broke no rules . imo:no:

Zaun

04-23-2008, 08:48 PM

Originally posted by Rosieo

I agree - he will do something stupid and it'll be just what they need. It seems this is his first murder (hopefully) and that inexperience, for lack of a better way to put it, is what will get him caught. [/*]

Do you feel that he will allow his next victim to be found? Now that they have his DNA. I think he may change the disposal method to prevent tracking. imo

Rosieo

04-23-2008, 09:20 PM

Rosieo

04-23-2008, 09:21 PM

Originally posted by Zaun

Do you feel that he will allow his next victim to be found? Now that they have his DNA. I think he may change the disposal method to prevent tracking. imo [/*]

The "disposal method"? You sound quite knowledgeable on the subject.

Rosieo

04-23-2008, 09:23 PM

Originally posted by Zaun

Speaking for my post, I see no " victim bashing" it is just what has been showed to have happened. I have broke no rules . imo:no: [/*]

It's been shown that she was drunk and passed out? Link, please?

Zaun

04-23-2008, 09:24 PM

Originally posted by Rosieo

The "disposal method"? You sound quite knowledgeable on the subject. [/*]

One of my favorite shows is C.S.I , it's a well known term. imo

Rosieo

04-23-2008, 09:27 PM

Rosieo

04-23-2008, 09:28 PM

Originally posted by Zaun

One of my favorite shows is C.S.I , it's a well known term. imo [/*]

Ah, okay - I don't watch much television, didn't know that :)

So do you have a link stating that she was drunk and passed out? Not that that would even matter, of course, it's irrelevant, but you've obviously seen some information the rest of us haven't.

Zaun

04-23-2008, 09:29 PM

Originally posted by Rosieo

It's been shown that she was drunk and passed out? Link, please? [/*]

I posted asleep or passed out ....not what you said. It was reported she had had some drinks and if she was one of those girls who don't eat that much it could cause you to pass out. However I posted asleep OR passed out. I'll show you again by quoting my own.

Zaun

04-23-2008, 09:29 PM

Rosieo

04-23-2008, 09:31 PM

Originally posted by Zaun

I posted asleep or passed out ....not what you said. It was reported she had had some drinks and if she was one of those girls who don't eat that much it could cause you to pass out. However I posted asleep OR passed out. I'll show you again by quoting my own. [/*]

I misunderstood you then. However, it's been stated clearly by her friends that she had a couple of drinks and was not drunk - that she in fact never got drunk. She was asleep. And even that is merely an assumption - she was awake when the girls went into KTs room - we don't know for a fact that she was even asleep.

Rosieo

04-23-2008, 09:35 PM

Originally posted by herlock h.
Before this thread gets closed maybe we can prevent that by ignoring those who post provocative statements. I am so interested in almost everyone's ideas and I want to see Brianna's killer behind bars or worse! Please, those who have helpful ideas - keep on track!

Thanks,
Herlock [/*]

I agree, engaging "ignore" :)

Zaun

04-23-2008, 09:40 PM

Originally posted by Rosieo

I misunderstood you then. However, it's been stated clearly by her friends that she had a couple of drinks and was not drunk - that she in fact never got drunk. She was asleep. And even that is merely an assumption - she was awake when the girls went into KTs room - we don't know for a fact that she was even asleep. [/*]

I don't even understand why it matters. I just thought that if she was passed out that it would make it even harder to make some noise or fight back but that could also happen if you were asleep and got chloroformed or something. If she was awake I would've thought more of a fight. jmo

omsk99

04-23-2008, 09:42 PM

Originally posted by Rosieo

I misunderstood you then. However, it's been stated clearly by her friends that she had a couple of drinks and was not drunk - that she in fact never got drunk. She was asleep. And even that is merely an assumption - she was awake when the girls went into KTs room - we don't know for a fact that she was even asleep. [/*]

You are right, and it was also reported she texted her boy-friend around 5 am or so (I really can't remember the time, but it was after they got home, and before she went to sleep, IIRC, she told her BF she was going to sleep at that time). She couldn't have been passed out if she texted him, not that this even matters, but I would prefer, too, that no negative, unproven information is posted in regards to a murder victim, in this case Brianna. JMO

Politigal

04-23-2008, 10:29 PM

Originally posted by Zaun

I don't even understand why it matters. I just thought that if she was passed out that it would make it even harder to make some noise or fight back but that could also happen if you were asleep and got chloroformed or something. If she was awake I would've thought more of a fight. jmo [/*]

Considering her blood was found there - both drops and spatter, IMO, there was a fight.

And would you consider that it was most likely not a *fair* fight - being approached in the dark while asleep?

Furthermore - Brianna was only 5 feet tall and the attacker is heavy-set and possibly 6'3" tall!!!

IMO, that's akin to a large man attacking a child.

Jeez

Rosieo

04-23-2008, 11:27 PM

Originally posted by Politigal

Considering her blood was found there - both drops and spatter, IMO, there was a fight.

And would you consider that it was most likely not a *fair* fight - being approached in the dark while asleep?

Furthermore - Brianna was only 5 feet tall and the attacker is heavy-set and possibly 6'3" tall!!!

IMO, that's akin to a large man attacking a child.

Jeez [/*]

Precisely - she didn't stand a chance :(

Toad

04-23-2008, 11:46 PM

I went to the same college in Santa Barbara as Brianna, and although I didn't know her personally, I have not been able to get this case out of my head. Just throwing out some ideas that have been floating around as of late (sorry if any of this has been discussed already!)...

The perp supposedly tried to break into the December 16th victims apartment on Jan 19th, the night before Bri was abducted. It was said on one of the latest tv specials (may have been dateline, im not positive) that Bri spent the night at KT's on the night of the 19th as well as the 20th when she was taken. I'm wondering if the suspect also returned to the November 13th victim's residence (or returned to the general area to look for her) on that same night (Jan 19th), being that it is located RIGHT across the street from the Mackay residence.

This is what I picture...
- Suspect returns to Westwood Apts (Nov victim's residence - or parking lot) earlier in the evening of Jan 19 for the same reason he revisited Dec vic's apt (unknown). On his way into westwood complex/parking area he notices females in Mackay residence.
- Being unsuccessful in whatever his agenda was at westwood, he left the complex area (maybe an hour or two later), frustrated.
- After giving up on Nov victim he remembers seeing the girls at the Mackay house, but they are no longer there as they have left to go to a party. This is when he gets his chance to take the panties, and maybe look around/get a feeling for the house.
- Panties get him riled up. This is when he goes to Dec 16 victim's house for attempted break-in.
- After being unsuccessful once again, he drives back down college st to check on mackay house. Decides any girls in residence are a good target and will come back when the time is right, Jan 20th.

All of this could have been in any order, but basically I'm just trying to say that I think he returned to Dec vic, Nov vic, and spotted Brianna/girls all in the night of Jan 19th.

Not sure if I got all that down in a way that makes a lot of sense, I have a lot of ideas running through my head at the moment.

All IMO of course!!

Politigal

04-24-2008, 12:27 AM

Excellent overview Toad!!

And IMO is very plausible - considering the location of the November attack - being just across the street from where Brianna was taken.

Good thinking!

silex

04-24-2008, 01:44 AM

Here is a link to another board with some very good photos of both locations, UNR area and the South Reno lot. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60700

Rosieo

04-24-2008, 01:46 AM

Originally posted by silex
Here is a link to another board with some very good photos of both locations, UNR area and the South Reno lot. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60700 [/*]

Thanks, Silex! Where've you been? Good to see you back!

crimeq

04-24-2008, 02:04 AM

Originally posted by Toad
I went to the same college in Santa Barbara as Brianna, and although I didn't know her personally, I have not been able to get this case out of my head. Just throwing out some ideas that have been floating around as of late (sorry if any of this has been discussed already!)...

The perp supposedly tried to break into the December 16th victims apartment on Jan 19th, the night before Bri was abducted. It was said on one of the latest tv specials (may have been dateline, im not positive) that Bri spent the night at KT's on the night of the 19th as well as the 20th when she was taken. I'm wondering if the suspect also returned to the November 13th victim's residence (or returned to the general area to look for her) on that same night (Jan 19th), being that it is located RIGHT across the street from the Mackay residence.

This is what I picture...
- Suspect returns to Westwood Apts (Nov victim's residence - or parking lot) earlier in the evening of Jan 19 for the same reason he revisited Dec vic's apt (unknown). On his way into westwood complex/parking area he notices females in Mackay residence.
- Being unsuccessful in whatever his agenda was at westwood, he left the complex area (maybe an hour or two later), frustrated.
- After giving up on Nov victim he remembers seeing the girls at the Mackay house, but they are no longer there as they have left to go to a party. This is when he gets his chance to take the panties, and maybe look around/get a feeling for the house.
- Panties get him riled up. This is when he goes to Dec 16 victim's house for attempted break-in.
- After being unsuccessful once again, he drives back down college st to check on mackay house. Decides any girls in residence are a good target and will come back when the time is right, Jan 20th.

All of this could have been in any order, but basically I'm just trying to say that I think he returned to Dec vic, Nov vic, and spotted Brianna/girls all in the night of Jan 19th.

Not sure if I got all that down in a way that makes a lot of sense, I have a lot of ideas running through my head at the moment.

All IMO of course!! [/*]

Makes a lot of sense. I didn't realize until recently when I looked at some of the pics posted online HOW CLOSE the apts. are to the Mackay house. I agree with you that he may have noticed girls at the house while he was in the apt. parking lot--or thereabouts.

I wonder how good the information on campus was about the attack that took place in that parking lot--as in, did the girls who lived in the Mackay house even know an attack had occurred there. Was information about attacks/safety prevalent on campus? Did these girls in the Mackay house, who lived so close, know they should be staying more careful, locking their doors?

silex

04-24-2008, 02:21 AM

Originally posted by Rosieo

Where've you been? Good to see you back! [/*]
Thanks! My free time has almost been non-existent lately. I have been lurking but haven't had the amount of time I've wanted to reply to any of them. I noticed the photo link had better pictures posted and thought I'd post the link for everyone here to see.

Toad

04-24-2008, 02:22 AM

Thank you!

Here is a google map of the attack locations:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&geocode=&saddr=401+college+ave+reno+nv&daddr=1450+virginia+ave+reno+nv+to:1395+mackay+ct+ reno+nv&mra=pi&mrcr=1&sll=39.54187,-119.81909&sspn=0.003698,0.010042&ie=UTF8&ll=39.542333,-119.818386&spn=0.003698,0.010042&t=h&z=17

A - Nov 13 attack (complex parking lot on north side of college ave))
* - Dec 16 attack, 1400 block of Virginia ave (specific address not known?)
C - 1395 Mackay Ct, left corner house where Bri was taken

If I'm not mistaken, it was said that the December victim was attacked when she was parking her car on Terrace Dr (parallel to Virginia). This makes me think that since it has been said she lived on Virginia, she probably lived in one of the houses that have back lots that you would access from Terrace Dr.

IF this could be true, this would mean that all of his known attacks would have occurred in some kind of small parking lot (which could match what we know of the Oct 22 suspects profile as well....) except Brianna. This is what makes me think he stumbled upon that house on accident or as a result of being in that lot across the street.

Just some thoughts of mine... :)

Rosieo

04-24-2008, 02:23 AM

Originally posted by crimeq

Makes a lot of sense. I didn't realize until recently when I looked at some of the pics posted online HOW CLOSE the apts. are to the Mackay house. I agree with you that he may have noticed girls at the house while he was in the apt. parking lot--or thereabouts.

I wonder how good the information on campus was about the attack that took place in that parking lot--as in, did the girls who lived in the Mackay house even know an attack had occurred there. Was information about attacks/safety prevalent on campus? Did these girls in the Mackay house, who lived so close, know they should be staying more careful, locking their doors? [/*]

This is what I'm wondering - if they know an attack had taken place so nearby - if they didn't, that's just wrong, IMO. If a rape or attempted rape occurs across the street from me, I have a right to know about - JMO. I have a feeling they didn't know...I would think they'd have kept the door locked if they did.

Rosieo

04-24-2008, 02:29 AM

IF this could be true, this would mean that all of his known attacks would have occurred in some kind of small parking lot (which could match what we know of the Oct 22 suspects profile as well....) except Brianna. This is what makes me think he stumbled upon that house on accident or as a result of being in that lot across the street.

Just some thoughts of mine... :) [/*][/QUOTE]

And very very good thoughts they are! :beer: He could have been cruising the lot looking for a victim, someone coming home late, etc. and when he spotted Brianna, he grabbed the chance. I'm sure they were probably up for a little while when they got home, lights on, no coverings on the windows...he could have very well watched and seen when the other girls went to bed and saw Brianna then lie down on the couch after texting her BF. Crime of opportunity :( She was in the wrong place at the wrong time. It always makes me sad thinking she almost didn't go that night because she was getting a cold - and that she slept in KT's room the night before, but opted for the couch that night.....if only......everything worked against her

Rosieo

04-24-2008, 02:31 AM

Originally posted by silex

Thanks! My free time has almost been non-existent lately. I have been lurking but haven't had the amount of time I've wanted to reply to any of them. I noticed the photo link had better pictures posted and thought I'd post the link for everyone here to see. [/*]

Thanks for posting that...it's good to see you!

Toad

04-24-2008, 02:36 AM

One more thing to go with the whole "parking lots" theory... The October 22 attack that hasn't positively been connected, occurred in the Whalen parking lot of the University. RIGHT across the street from the December victim's residence. Could he have been watching her for months before she was attacked, while preying in the Whalen garage? Sorry, I hate bringing this up because we have no hard evidence to connect this case. It just fit too well for me.

silex

04-24-2008, 02:38 AM

Originally posted by Toad

If I'm not mistaken, it was said that the December victim was attacked when she was parking her car on Terrace Dr (parallel to Virginia). This makes me think that since it has been said she lived on Virginia, she probably lived in one of the houses that have back lots that you would access from Terrace Dr.

I[/*]

If you look at the satellite view of the google map, I believe the Dec. victims apt. was the 2nd building north of 14th St. between Virginia St. and Terrace Dr. (which is very narrow, almost like an alley). This apt. has parking in the front and back.

Rosieo

04-24-2008, 02:41 AM

Originally posted by Toad
One more thing to go with the whole "parking lots" theory... The October 22 attack that hasn't positively been connected, occurred in the Whalen parking lot of the University. RIGHT across the street from the December victim's residence. Could he have been watching her for months before she was attacked, while preying in the Whalen garage? Sorry, I hate bringing this up because we have no hard evidence to connect this case. It just fit too well for me. [/*]

ITA, Toad, I'd be willing to bet the October attack was him...you're right, it fits too well. Oh, how I wish they'd catch this POS. It makes me sick to think of him out there walking around, just going about his life :( I feel pretty certain he won't stop - he's going to hurt, or kill, another young woman, either in Reno or elsewhere. People like him don't stop, especially when - in his eyes - it was so easy for him.

wandering

04-24-2008, 02:42 AM

I don't understand why they haven't gotten this creep yet. :confused: Are they even working on it?

silex

04-24-2008, 02:43 AM

Originally posted by Rosieo

Thanks for posting that...it's good to see you! [/*]
It's nice to come back to such a warm welcome. I thank you for that, Rosieo. I am off for the night but will be back tomorrow.

Rosieo

04-24-2008, 02:45 AM

Originally posted by silex

It's nice to come back to such a warm welcome. I thank you for that, Rosieo. I am off for the night but will be back tomorrow. [/*]
Hope to see ya tomorrow - sleep well!

Toad

04-24-2008, 02:54 AM

Silex, thank you so much! I had a feeling it was one of those two bottom buildings, but couldn't find the answer anywhere.

The fact that this POS is still out there frustrates the heck out of me! :flamemad:

Rosieo

04-24-2008, 02:56 AM

Originally posted by Toad
Silex, thank you so much! I had a feeling it was one of those two bottom buildings, but couldn't find the answer anywhere.

The fact that this POS is still out there frustrates the heck out of me! :flamemad: [/*]

Ditto, Toad :cuss: They'll get him.

osubbfan

04-24-2008, 06:10 AM

In this picture it looks like a dryer vent on the back of the house. I can't tell if that would place the laundry on the first or second floor?? I was wondering how this might be related to how/when he picked up the pink underwear. Of course they could have been lying anywhere but with male roomies I think she would be less likely to leave her dirty underwear in the common area. She has said she doesn't know when they were taken so she wasn't likely wearing them that night.

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q58/fxstsi/miscpictures2008140.jpg

Maelstrom5

04-24-2008, 09:32 AM

Hi Toad,

You could be correct about his movements on the 19th.

We know that the police have stated that they believe he tried to brake in to the Dec. victims apartment that night, which means he was out on the 19th as well as the 20th.

I don't think that he would have gone to the parking garage just to revisited a spot of a previous assault but he may well have gone there to hunt. He does not need to return to a location to relive the assault in his mind, he is a collector, he takes trophies and can use them to remember his "conquest".

As I mentioned here long ago, the area of the attacks provides a target rich environment. (back when the police told us they had no proof there was a connection I felt there was one) It is a area he knows well, and is within his comfort zone.

He may well have spied on Brianna, Kt and others the night before the attack( evening hours of the18th/ morning hours of the19th) or seen them earlier in the evening of the 19th.

The question of previous entry is problematic, we have nothing to suggest that he did, but there is nothing we know that precludes him from having done so either. I feel the answer to that question lies with the pink underwear, where were they left, and when.

If they were worn by Kt or Jessica that evening then he did not enter the house before the early morning hours or the 20th. But if they were worn on a previous day and were in a laundry basket in one of the bedrooms then he probably did. I feel sure the police know the answer to this question but its not something they are going to give out at this time.

If you have seen my previous posts then you know I thing there is a decent chance this guy no longer lives in the area of the attacks, and maybe not even Reno. I believe he lived or worked there in the past and knows the area well but the fact that the police have had not luck up to this point suggest that he may no longer.

Of course he could be one of those local men who have refused to give a voluntary DNA sample and up to this point the police have no evidence that would convince a judge to issue to a court ordered one.

I think that if and when this guy strikes again he will vary his MO a bit. The women will still be petite, but age, hairstyle/color may well be different. In the past he went after coeds, next time the victim may well be a housewife or working girl.

I continue to feel this case is going to be solved the old fashioned way, with plenty of shoe leather.

silex

04-24-2008, 09:49 AM

Originally posted by osubbfan
In this picture it looks like a dryer vent on the back of the house. I can't tell if that would place the laundry on the first or second floor??[/*]The laundry room is located on the first floor attached to the kitchen. The video from AMW shows this, you can clearly see the dryer. My thoughts, he was in the house prior to Bri's return but after Jessica's. Hid in the laundry room, stole the pink uw during that time.

gestalt

04-24-2008, 10:41 AM

Toad - excellent mapping and analyzing that data. I wonder if LE has anyone around at those times who could have seen the suspect.

Are you now working on the mapping out of the industrial park area/industries where her body was found?

Maelstrom5

04-24-2008, 12:06 PM

Originally posted by silex
The laundry room is located on the first floor attached to the kitchen. The video from AMW shows this, you can clearly see the dryer. My thoughts, he was in the house prior to Bri's return but after Jessica's. Hid in the laundry room, stole the pink uw during that time. [/*]

Hi Silex,

TY for the info about were the laundry was located, it means the pink underwear may have been worn on a previous date but it does not prove that he was in the house before 4:30 am.

It could have happened the way you suggest but it would have been out of character for this perp.

He is a opportunistic blitz attacker.

For him to enter the house after Jessica got home but before Brianna and KT arrived would mean he was lying in wait. There are a few problems with this; he had no idea that the others would return and more importantly he had no idea they would return alone. They could have come back with boyfriends or a whole group of people from the party. I could be wrong but I do not believe he would risk losing control that way.

Here is my scenario for what happened.

Bri and KT return to the house and the perp sees them, this may have been by chance or he could have seen them before and was checking out this house as well as other areas for potential victims. Brianna goes to sleep.( She would have been exhausted by this point. She spent the day with her mother, was not feeling well, had spent the night out with friends, had a contentious and ongoing text exchange with her boyfriend and had at least a couple of drinks. I think it is safe to say she was asleep as soon as her head hit the pillow.)

The perp enters and uses the pillow to subdue Brianna. He does so with sufficient force that she receives a bloody nose or a cut lip. As a result Brianna is at least momentarily unable to defend herself. He picks her up and starts to take her out of the house, she still is wrapped in the blanket. Bri recovers to the point she can fight back before he gets her out of the house and a second attack occurs in the kitchen. At this point he may have strangled and killed her but I think it is more likely that he just rendered her completely unconscious. He gets the pink underwear and along with the PP thong uses it as a binding or gag. He exit’s the house taking with him both Brianna and the stuffed bear (remember, we now know he likes to take trophies)

If Bri is already dead he takes her body to the place it was found. If not he kills her within a hour of leaving the house, and then precedes to dump her body. I am not sure if he purposely left the underwear or if they fell during the trip from his vehicle to the spot were her body was found and in the dark he could not find them.

silex

04-24-2008, 12:54 PM

Jessica may have been his intended target, she arrived at the house alone prior to Bri and KT. He may have been sitting in his vehicle and seen her enter the house without locking the door behind her. May have happened upon that scenario by staking out the house party right up the street on College Dr. It would be very easy to sit in a vehicle and go undetected in that area due to the lack of lighting and number of parked cars. I do not believe Bri was his intended target that night.

Toad

04-24-2008, 01:50 PM

Originally posted by Maelstrom5

I don't think that he would have gone to the parking garage just to revisited a spot of a previous assault but he may well have gone there to hunt. He does not need to return to a location to relive the assault in his mind, he is a collector, he takes trophies and can use them to remember his "conquest".[/*]

I agree. I don't think he went back to the westwood apt area to revisit his experience, because he was very unsuccessful as that spot, ended up kicking the girl in the head and then ran away... why relive that? :confused:

As I mentioned here long ago, the area of the attacks provides a target rich environment. (back when the police told us they had no proof there was a connection I felt there was one) It is a area he knows well, and is within his comfort zone.

If you have seen my previous posts then you know I thing there is a decent chance this guy no longer lives in the area of the attacks, and maybe not even Reno. I believe he lived or worked there in the past and knows the area well but the fact that the police have had not luck up to this point suggest that he may no longer. [/*]

I also think there's a good chance he used to live in the area, maybe even attend UNR. Even as recently as last semester, IMO. I can see the typed papers on the floor of the truck being an old, graded assignment that was returned to him recently on his way out of class. They could have been anything though! Oy!
It's also very possible he is some kind of maintenance man/cable installer. I say cable installer because for some reason, in my small college town, cable vans were all over the place. Maybe even more so than maintenance trucks.

I don't see this man being very old just based on his clothing description in one of the attacks... shorts with an elastic waistband and FUBU-type (material) top? Seems like something a younger person would wear, to me. I feel like people who wear shorts of that description are usually ahtletic, former athletes who now wear short for comfort, or on their way to work out. From latest description he sounds out of shape, so he may be a former college/high school athlete? I wonder if there are in public basketball court in the area?

Rosieo

04-24-2008, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by osubbfan
In this picture it looks like a dryer vent on the back of the house. I can't tell if that would place the laundry on the first or second floor?? I was wondering how this might be related to how/when he picked up the pink underwear. Of course they could have been lying anywhere but with male roomies I think she would be less likely to leave her dirty underwear in the common area. She has said she doesn't know when they were taken so she wasn't likely wearing them that night.

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q58/fxstsi/miscpictures2008140.jpg [/*]

I think I'd seen before that the laundry is on the first floor - my thought is that he got them from the laundry - he probably prefers used undies - blech - but when?

Rosieo

04-24-2008, 02:14 PM

Originally posted by Maelstrom5

Hi Silex,

TY for the info about were the laundry was located, it means the pink underwear may have been worn on a previous date but it does not prove that he was in the house before 4:30 am.

It could have happened the way you suggest but it would have been out of character for this perp.

He is a opportunistic blitz attacker.

For him to enter the house after Jessica got home but before Brianna and KT arrived would mean he was lying in wait. There are a few problems with this; he had no idea that the others would return and more importantly he had no idea they would return alone. They could have come back with boyfriends or a whole group of people from the party. I could be wrong but I do not believe he would risk losing control that way.

Here is my scenario for what happened.

Bri and KT return to the house and the perp sees them, this may have been by chance or he could have seen them before and was checking out this house as well as other areas for potential victims. Brianna goes to sleep.( She would have been exhausted by this point. She spent the day with her mother, was not feeling well, had spent the night out with friends, had a contentious and ongoing text exchange with her boyfriend and had at least a couple of drinks. I think it is safe to say she was asleep as soon as her head hit the pillow.)

The perp enters and uses the pillow to subdue Brianna. He does so with sufficient force that she receives a bloody nose or a cut lip. As a result Brianna is at least momentarily unable to defend herself. He picks her up and starts to take her out of the house, she still is wrapped in the blanket. Bri recovers to the point she can fight back before he gets her out of the house and a second attack occurs in the kitchen. At this point he may have strangled and killed her but I think it is more likely that he just rendered her completely unconscious. He gets the pink underwear and along with the PP thong uses it as a binding or gag. He exit’s the house taking with him both Brianna and the stuffed bear (remember, we now know he likes to take trophies)

If Bri is already dead he takes her body to the place it was found. If not he kills her within a hour of leaving the house, and then precedes to dump her body. I am not sure if he purposely left the underwear or if they fell during the trip from his vehicle to the spot were her body was found and in the dark he could not find them. [/*]

Entirely possible, Maelstrom - but if a second attack occurred in the kitchen, wouldn't the dog have barked or Bri made some noise? I've always felt he rendered her unconscious immediately, i.e., maye hit her in the head with something. I hope whatever happened, that she passed quickly :( I've also always had the feeling that he didn't intend to kill her, that something went very wrong for him that night and felt he had no choice....but on the other hand, he could have been so enraged by the previous victim being gone, and knowing she'd gone to the police, that he did intent to take out that anger on his next victim, who happened to be Bri, and to make sure she couldn't go to the police.

Toad

04-24-2008, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by gestalt
Toad - excellent mapping and analyzing that data. I wonder if LE has anyone around at those times who could have seen the suspect.

Are you now working on the mapping out of the industrial park area/industries where her body was found? [/*]

Thanks, gestalt! It's so hard for me to believe that no one saw this guy. Especially after the attempted break-in where be tried to hit the door knob off! How could no one hear him or see him leave? And when the November victim screamed and he ran off... how could nobody notice anything??? It's just dumb luck he hasn't been seen or caught yet, IMO.

I have been looking at the industrial area where her body was found on google maps...

MAP (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=sandhill+dr+and+double+r+rd+reno+nv&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=33.160552,82.265625&ie=UTF8&ll=39.44539,-119.760633&spn=0.007887,0.020084&t=h&z=16&iwloc=addr) (field immediately SW of green arrow)

Haven't come up with much yet...

Toad

04-24-2008, 02:29 PM

Originally posted by Maelstrom5

If Bri is already dead he takes her body to the place it was found. If not he kills her within a hour of leaving the house, and then precedes to dump her body. I am not sure if he purposely left the underwear or if they fell during the trip from his vehicle to the spot were her body was found and in the dark he could not find them. [/*]

I can definitely see your scenario playing out, Maelstrom. If Bri was not alive when he took her, do you think he took her straight to the place she was found? Or do you think he had the body for some time before disposing? I tend to think the latter, only because of LE's reaction to the crime. IIRC, they said something to the effect of only 99.9% of people could fathom the crime that had occurred based on the condition she was found (Please correct me if I'm wrong!).

Gosh, I don't know what to think about the underwear anymore. I do think believe they were not used as means to strangle her (recent RGJ article says he used pillow to strangle), so I think that discounts that idea that was floating around (at least over on WS) for a while.

Toad

04-24-2008, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by Toad

Gosh, I don't know what to think about the underwear anymore. I do think believe they were not used as means to strangle her (recent RGJ article says he used pillow to strangle), so I think that discounts that idea that was floating around (at least over on WS) for a while. [/*]

Sorry, can't find a link to support this whatsoever.. I may have just read the pillow comment on a board somewhere. However, I still do not believe he used to underwear to strangle.

Maelstrom5

04-24-2008, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by Toad

I can definitely see your scenario playing out, Maelstrom. If Bri was not alive when he took her, do you think he took her straight to the place she was found? Or do you think he had the body for some time before disposing? I tend to think the latter, only because of LE's reaction to the crime. IIRC, they said something to the effect of only 99.9% of people could fathom the crime that had occurred based on the condition she was found (Please correct me if I'm wrong!).

Gosh, I don't know what to think about the underwear anymore. I do think believe they were not used as means to strangle her (recent RGJ article says he used pillow to strangle), so I think that discounts that idea that was floating around (at least over on WS) for a while. [/*]

Hi,

Yes; I think he dumped Bri's body that morning before the sun came up, if not, then as soon as it was dark and no one was around sunday night.

No; I think the underwear were to flimsy and to.. well, elastic.. to be used for ligature strangulation. Bra’s and pantyhose are sometimes used for ligatures but I can't see the PP thong being used in that fashion.

Hi Rosieo,

Your question;

"but if a second attack occurred in the kitchen, wouldn't the dog have barked or Bri made some noise?"

Both would have happened.

I think that Bri made noise and that the dog reacted by barking. But no one heard them.

I don't want to reintroduce the touchy subject of how much alcohol was consumed that evening but early on I said we should take the report of how much partying went on with a grain of salt, I still feel that’s true. ( The police now have Brianna’s toxic report, so I am sure they know how much Bri may have consumed that night, but they have not made any public comments about it as far as I can tell)

Suffice to say they left the house with two cars, but all three women chose to get a ride home with someone else.

I want to reemphasize I am not blaming Bri, KT or Jessica for what happened, just pointing out why it may have.

Politigal

04-24-2008, 07:16 PM

Originally posted by Maelstrom5

Hi,

Yes; I think he dumped Bri's body that morning before the sun came up, if not, then as soon as it was dark and no one was around sunday night.

No; I think the underwear were to flimsy and to.. well, elastic.. to be used for ligature strangulation. Bra’s and pantyhose are sometimes used for ligatures but I can't see the PP thong being used in that fashion.

Hi Rosieo,

Your question;

"but if a second attack occurred in the kitchen, wouldn't the dog have barked or Bri made some noise?"

Both would have happened.

I think that Bri made noise and that the dog reacted by barking. But no one heard them.

I don't want to reintroduce the touchy subject of how much alcohol was consumed that evening but early on I said we should take the report of how much partying went on with a grain of salt, I still feel that’s true. ( The police now have Brianna’s toxic report, so I am sure they know how much Bri may have consumed that night, but they have not made any public comments about it as far as I can tell)

Suffice to say they left the house with two cars, but all three women chose to get a ride home with someone else.

I want to reemphasize I am not blaming Bri, KT or Jessica for what happened, just pointing out why it may have. [/*]

Where did you read that they left the house that night in two cars? I had wondered if someone picked them up and took them because they rode a shuttle bus from the party/concert to the casino.

Toad

04-24-2008, 07:40 PM

Originally posted by Rosieo

ITA, Toad, I'd be willing to bet the October attack was him...you're right, it fits too well. Oh, how I wish they'd catch this POS. It makes me sick to think of him out there walking around, just going about his life :( I feel pretty certain he won't stop - he's going to hurt, or kill, another young woman, either in Reno or elsewhere. People like him don't stop, especially when - in his eyes - it was so easy for him. [/*]

I've been thinking about this all day and still can't make up my mind about the Oct attack. It fits so well, but there are many things that do not. OK, SIMILARITIES: location, timing, attacked from behind. DIFFERENCES: gun used, no car present (am I getting this right that the assault occurred just out in the open??), allowed victim to see his face. Anything else?

Could the MO of the Oct attack be so different because it was the first time he had done this? Maybe he refined his plans after realizing this was something he was going to be doing more often. Maybe he has a connection to the campus and thought that if he switched to off-campus attacks LE would not be so quick to assume a school affiliation?

IF Oct was connected and he in fact first spotted the December victim from the Whalen parking lot, did he frequent that parking lot and get a chance to watch her multiple times? Or did he remember seeing her on the night of Oct 22 and and come back nearly 2 months later for her? I'm interested in why he would seem so comfortable with the Whalen lot in the first place.

Quick question, on the map of attacks I linked a page back, if you zoom into the Whalen lot it looks like you access the top level of the structure from Virginia. Does anyone know if there is a significant incline from the street to the lot, or if the first level of that lot would be at the same level as the street?

Sorry, I only bring this up because this encounter has not been discounted by the police, to my knowledge, yet hasn't gotten much talk time because of lack of evidence. (again, please correct me if i'm wrong!)

Agh, I'm rambling, but I needed to get this stuff out before it leaves my brain. :rolleyes:

Toad

04-24-2008, 09:33 PM

Originally posted by Toad

Quick question, on the map of attacks I linked a page back, if you zoom into the Whalen lot it looks like you access the top level of the structure from Virginia. Does anyone know if there is a significant incline from the street to the lot, or if the first level of that lot would be at the same level as the street?

[/*]

Nevermind, I think my eyes were playing tricks on me. There is no ramp going from the street to top level at all. :punch:

sunstar

04-24-2008, 09:36 PM

Originally posted by silex
Jessica may have been his intended target, she arrived at the house alone prior to Bri and KT. He may have been sitting in his vehicle and seen her enter the house without locking the door behind her. May have happened upon that scenario by staking out the house party right up the street on College Dr. It would be very easy to sit in a vehicle and go undetected in that area due to the lack of lighting and number of parked cars. I do not believe Bri was his intended target that night. [/*]
I think it's entirely possible he had started staking out the house the night before after he found his Dec. victim had left. He may have sat outside and watched the girls inside, seen that they don't lock the door, seen the dog, and so forth. Then the next night he returns to see the other two girls go in the bedroom with the dog and Brianna staying out on the sofa, so here's his perfect opportunity. He might even have gone inside the house while the girls were out and that's why the dog didn't bark when Brianna was abducted. I still think it's interesting this coincidentally happened when the two male roommates were gone. MOO :)

Politigal

04-24-2008, 11:48 PM

IMO, it's just *too* coincidental that the male residents were gone that night....

butterfly28

04-25-2008, 12:20 AM

Originally posted by Toad
I went to the same college in Santa Barbara as Brianna, and although I didn't know her personally, I have not been able to get this case out of my head. Just throwing out some ideas that have been floating around as of late (sorry if any of this has been discussed already!)...

The perp supposedly tried to break into the December 16th victims apartment on Jan 19th, the night before Bri was abducted. It was said on one of the latest tv specials (may have been dateline, im not positive) that Bri spent the night at KT's on the night of the 19th as well as the 20th when she was taken. I'm wondering if the suspect also returned to the November 13th victim's residence (or returned to the general area to look for her) on that same night (Jan 19th), being that it is located RIGHT across the street from the Mackay residence.

This is what I picture...
- Suspect returns to Westwood Apts (Nov victim's residence - or parking lot) earlier in the evening of Jan 19 for the same reason he revisited Dec vic's apt (unknown). On his way into westwood complex/parking area he notices females in Mackay residence.
- Being unsuccessful in whatever his agenda was at westwood, he left the complex area (maybe an hour or two later), frustrated.
- After giving up on Nov victim he remembers seeing the girls at the Mackay house, but they are no longer there as they have left to go to a party. This is when he gets his chance to take the panties, and maybe look around/get a feeling for the house.
- Panties get him riled up. This is when he goes to Dec 16 victim's house for attempted break-in.
- After being unsuccessful once again, he drives back down college st to check on mackay house. Decides any girls in residence are a good target and will come back when the time is right, Jan 20th.

All of this could have been in any order, but basically I'm just trying to say that I think he returned to Dec vic, Nov vic, and spotted Brianna/girls all in the night of Jan 19th.

Not sure if I got all that down in a way that makes a lot of sense, I have a lot of ideas running through my head at the moment.

All IMO of course!! [/*]

Excellent ideas Toad. Thank you for sharing. You have several good theories!!

butterfly28

04-25-2008, 12:32 AM

It was great to get caught up on all of the good posts that have been going on. This is some great brainstorming!!

Maelstrom5

04-25-2008, 08:19 AM

Originally posted by Politigal

Where did you read that they left the house that night in two cars? I had wondered if someone picked them up and took them because they rode a shuttle bus from the party/concert to the casino. [/*]

Hi,

Timeline:

The day started with Brianna puttering around her mom's house in sweats, doing laundry, staying grungy. Later, she and her mom Bridgette went to the movies and caught "27 Dresses," a chick flick they both enjoyed. That evening Bri was supposed to head out for a second night of music and parties with her friends. But she had both a cold and some second thoughts.

"Bridgette Denison: She was thinking about not going out. And I said, "You can be sick tomorrow. You really like this band."

"Brianna got her things together. At about 9 pm, she went into her mom's bedroom and gave her a hug goodbye."

Bridgette Denison: She had a big bag on and she was still in her grungy clothes. And I’m, like, you know, “What are you doing?" and she said that she was going to change at her friend’s house to go out."

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23750488

"A friend picked up Brianna, whose car was in the shop. They went to the Sands Hotel and Casino, where a bus took the snowboarding group to a rap concert. The bus later took them back to the Sands, where Brianna and her friend ate breakfast at Mel’s Diner inside the casino. The women were then driven home by Hunter’s friends."

http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?...S/80127017/1016

I am not sure if I read it or heard it on TV but the way I remember it is this way. Jessica picked Bri up and they went to KT's house. Jessica was ready to go to the concert but Bri and KT were not so she drove there first. Then KT and Bri took a second car and met her at the concert. They took a shuttle bus to the concert then back to the party, KT took the last known picture of Brianna while on the bus.

Politigal

04-25-2008, 11:54 AM

thx Maelstrom for posting the info

Toad

04-25-2008, 04:17 PM

Originally posted by Maelstrom5

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23750488

[/*]

Great link! The video towards the middle of the page "Assaults and murder linked by DNA" is very interesting. It gives more detail about the previous attacks than anything else I've seen in print.

osubbfan

04-25-2008, 08:42 PM

Originally posted by Toad

Great link! The video towards the middle of the page "Assaults and murder linked by DNA" is very interesting. It gives more detail about the previous attacks than anything else I've seen in print. [/*]

Yes indeed, I had never heard the Dec. victim actually went into her apartment and then went back out to her car. This guy is even getting second chances at victims. If only she hadn't forgotten whatever, if only Bri had slept with her friends again or locked the doors....

sunstar

04-25-2008, 09:13 PM

Originally posted by Politigal
IMO, it's just *too* coincidental that the male residents were gone that night.... [/*]
I don't think they were involved at all, but I wonder if this guy is someone they know, or someone who knew they'd be gone? Or was it just good luck for the perp? :shrug:

Politigal

04-26-2008, 12:25 AM

On the MSNBC link with all the videos -- I just watched the one where they described the suspect in depth...and the detective said the December victim said the hair on the suspect's arms was white or light colored - which means his head hair could be light colored too.

Maelstrom5

04-26-2008, 08:49 AM

Good morning all,

Hi Toad,

I just re-read something you said earlier and I would like to weigh in with my two cents.

"Gosh, I don't know what to think about the underwear anymore. I do think believe they were not used as means to strangle her (recent RGJ article says he used pillow to strangle), so I think that discounts that idea that was floating around (at least over on WS) for a while."

I did not see the article you are referring to, but it is wrong.

Unless the police spokesmen is just a PR person and knows nothing about the proper terminology then he/she would not have said that Brianna was strangled with a pillow.

Since the autopsy the police have said her death was due to strangulation.

If the pillow was the means used to kill Bri then she would have been smothered and the proper term would have been death by asphyxiation due to suffocation.

Outside of hanging there are two types of strangulation;

Ligature strangulation — Strangulation without suspension using some form of cord-like object

Manual strangulation — Strangulation using the fingers or other extremity

It is likely the pillow was used to subdue but not kill Brianna, then she was strangled at a later point. They would have been separate acts but may have only been minutes apart. ( To the best of my knowledge the police have not publicly said if it was ligature or manual strangulation)

osubbfan

04-26-2008, 12:08 PM

Maelstrom5, that fact has made what actually happened inside the MacKay house such a mystery to me. Bri's mother has stated on numerous occasions that she was told Bri was killed "within a matter of minutes." Another report stated that there was actually no "abduction" since she was murdered before taken from the house. If true, then how did the blood on the pillow get there? Did he cover her face with it as he strangled her? Was it still under her head and the blood flowed onto the pillow? Did he only mean to render her unconscious but went too far? If not, why would he take her dead body? It would seem he would want her alive for the sexual assault considering his past known attack.

Covering her face while he attempted to render her unconscious would make some sense if he did not plan on killing her. He did not allow any of his previous victims to see his face.

If he didn't intend to murder her then how has this affected him? Did it only serve to expedite his becoming a killer? Did it "freak him out" to the point that he will not attack again any time soon? The brutality the Dec. victim endured leads me to think it was inevitable that he would become a killer. He is certainly an extremely selfish, violent person who does not experience empathy. Also, his return to the home of the Dec. victim speaks volumes about the path he was going down. He was not just trying to scare her IMO, he was trying to get to her. The description of his attempted break in (by Lt. McDonald) makes it sound like he was in a rage.

LaptopSleuth

04-26-2008, 02:14 PM

Originally posted by osubbfan
Maelstrom5, that fact has made what actually happened inside the MacKay house such a mystery to me. Bri's mother has stated on numerous occasions that she was told Bri was killed "within a matter of minutes." Another report stated that there was actually no "abduction" since she was murdered before taken from the house. If true, then how did the blood on the pillow get there? Did he cover her face with it as he strangled her? Was it still under her head and the blood flowed onto the pillow? Did he only mean to render her unconscious but went too far? If not, why would he take her dead body? It would seem he would want her alive for the sexual assault considering his past known attack.

Covering her face while he attempted to render her unconscious would make some sense if he did not plan on killing her. He did not allow any of his previous victims to see his face.

If he didn't intend to murder her then how has this affected him? Did it only serve to expedite his becoming a killer? Did it "freak him out" to the point that he will not attack again any time soon? The brutality the Dec. victim endured leads me to think it was inevitable that he would become a killer. He is certainly an extremely selfish, violent person who does not experience empathy. Also, his return to the home of the Dec. victim speaks volumes about the path he was going down. He was not just trying to scare her IMO, he was trying to get to her. The description of his attempted break in (by Lt. McDonald) makes it sound like he was in a rage. [/*]

WOW I have only followed the case from a distance. But has there been official confirmation she was killed at the time she disappeared? That may be hard to prove... how could they prove that from the body which had laid on the ground for some time. Maybe the blood spot on the pillow had trace that it was "dead" blood. I forget what the process/chemical is but there is some difference beween libinh blood and blood from a dead body. I don' know how soon after death that change happens.

I guess one way would be to see any physical injuries from a beating, strangulation, rough sex did not begin to heal...i.e. postmortem injuries. At least if she died quickly everyone would not be left think of all the horrible things she endured during captivity.

I stop by here almost every day to see in the links thread if a suspect has been found.

One option is that this person is a necrophiliac.

osubbfan

04-26-2008, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by LaptopSleuth

WOW I have only followed the case from a distance. But has there been official confirmation she was killed at the time she disappeared? That may be hard to prove... how could they prove that from the body which had laid on the ground for some time. Maybe the blood spot on the pillow had trace that it was "dead" blood. I forget what the process/chemical is but there is some difference beween libinh blood and blood from a dead body. I don' know how soon after death that change happens.

I guess one way would be to see any physical injuries from a beating, strangulation, rough sex did not begin to heal...i.e. postmortem injuries. At least if she died quickly everyone would not be left think of all the horrible things she endured during captivity.

I stop by here almost every day to see in the links thread if a suspect has been found.

One option is that this person is a necrophiliac. [/*]

To my knowledge there has been no official statement that Bri was killed in the house....just statements from her mother and media reports. If all her other injuries were postmortem is the only way I know of that may indicate TOD. I really don't know much about that type of thing at all.

sunstar

04-26-2008, 05:27 PM

Originally posted by Politigal
On the MSNBC link with all the videos -- I just watched the one where they described the suspect in depth...and the detective said the December victim said the hair on the suspect's arms was white or light colored - which means his head hair could be light colored too. [/*]
I saw that too. One description I've heard was "light brown" hair on his arms. If his arms were also tanned, it could lighten the hair color. He might be blonde, dark blonde or have light or medium brown hair, imo.

sunstar

04-26-2008, 05:32 PM

Originally posted by Maelstrom5
Good morning all,

<respectfully snipped>

It is likely the pillow was used to subdue but not kill Brianna, then she was strangled at a later point. They would have been separate acts but may have only been minutes apart. ( To the best of my knowledge the police have not publicly said if it was ligature or manual strangulation) [/*]
The teddy bear could also have been used to smother her and the fact she had a cold (such as build up of mucous, unable to breathe through her nose) could've made it easier to kill her. MOO :)

Toad

04-26-2008, 05:41 PM

Maelstrom, yes I did not find the article either. I tried to fix the statement you are referring to in my post after it, so sorry for the confusion! Thank you for explaining the terminology as well. That definitely helps straighten some things out for me.

Osubbfan, here is the interview with Bri's mom I believe you are talking about, where she states the police believe she was killed in the house:
link (http://youtube.com/watch?v=S86tqKnHAEQ&feature=related) (about 3:10 into video)

One option is that this person is a necrophiliac.

Laptopsleuth, I agree. I've always thought this was a possibility.

osubbfan

04-26-2008, 07:25 PM

Originally posted by Toad
Maelstrom, yes I did not find the article either. I tried to fix the statement you are referring to in my post after it, so sorry for the confusion! Thank you for explaining the terminology as well. That definitely helps straighten some things out for me.

Osubbfan, here is the interview with Bri's mom I believe you are talking about, where she states the police believe she was killed in the house:
link (http://youtube.com/watch?v=S86tqKnHAEQ&feature=related) (about 3:10 into video)
Laptopsleuth, I agree. I've always thought this was a possibility. [/*]

Thanks Toad, yes...I have seen that one as well as at least one other interview where she made that statement. I've also seen a couple of media reports indicating the same thing. I have not, however, ever heard LE confirm this. It is hard to believe that they would intentionally lie to the mother, so I believe there is some truth to it....meaning, strong evidence to suggest that she died quickly once the attack began.

Although I've always found abnormal psych interesting, I have never read anything about necrophilia. I just find that beyond disgusting and hard to even imagine without getting sick at my stomach. So to prevent the need to barf, I'll just ask anyone that may know something about the topic....Is it common that someone with this disorder would also sexually assault a living victim?

Politigal

04-27-2008, 01:53 AM

I noticed Reno had an earthquake....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24321836/

Maelstrom5

04-27-2008, 07:57 AM

Originally posted by osubbfan

Although I've always found abnormal psych interesting, I have never read anything about necrophilia. I just find that beyond disgusting and hard to even imagine without getting sick at my stomach. So to prevent the need to barf, I'll just ask anyone that may know something about the topic....Is it common that someone with this disorder would also sexually assault a living victim? [/*]

Hi Osubbfan,

Yes it not unheard of for men who are serial rapist or killers to rape there victims while living then rape them again after death.

They are not a necrophiliac in the true sense of the word in that they only take pleasure from having sex with a corpus but their acts certainly are necrophiactic in nature.

Bundy did, and I know of a case in my home town, that of 13 year old Maryann Measles. She was first beaten and tortured, then gang raped.. After that she was murdered by drowning. One of the men (there were 8 people involved; 5 male, 3 female) raped Maryann again after she was dead.

BTW here is a profile from Wikipedia;

“Rosman and Resnick[7] (1989) theorized that either of the following situations could be antecedents to necrophilia (pp. 161)
:
The necrophile develops poor self-esteem, perhaps due in part to a significant loss;

(1) He (usually male) is very fearful of rejection by women and he desires a sexual partner who is incapable of rejecting him; and/or
(2) He is fearful of the dead, and transforms his fear — by means of reaction formation — into a desire.

He develops an exciting fantasy of sex with a corpse, sometimes after exposure to a corpse.

The authors also reported that, of their sample of 'necrophiliacs,' 68 percent were motivated by a desire for an unresisting and un-rejecting partner; 21 percent by a want for reunion with a lost partner; 15 percent by sexual attraction to dead people; 15 percent by a desire for comfort or to overcome feelings of isolation; and 12 percent by a desire to remedy low self-esteem by expressing power over a corpse (pp. 159)

I don’t think our perp fits most of that profile but he does fit part. He has low self-esteem, probably is unable to maintain a normal romantic/sexual relationship, and he derives pleasure from the fact that he is forcing his victims to do what he wants.

osubbfan

04-27-2008, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by Maelstrom5

BTW here is a profile from Wikipedia;

“Rosman and Resnick[7] (1989) theorized that either of the following situations could be antecedents to necrophilia (pp. 161)
:
The necrophile develops poor self-esteem, perhaps due in part to a significant loss;

(1) He (usually male) is very fearful of rejection by women and he desires a sexual partner who is incapable of rejecting him; and/or
(2) He is fearful of the dead, and transforms his fear — by means of reaction formation — into a desire.

He develops an exciting fantasy of sex with a corpse, sometimes after exposure to a corpse.

The authors also reported that, of their sample of 'necrophiliacs,' 68 percent were motivated by a desire for an unresisting and un-rejecting partner; 21 percent by a want for reunion with a lost partner; 15 percent by sexual attraction to dead people; 15 percent by a desire for comfort or to overcome feelings of isolation; and 12 percent by a desire to remedy low self-esteem by expressing power over a corpse (pp. 159)

[/*]

Thanks??? barf

J/K Maelstrom5. But really, how pathetic is your life if you get your self-esteem from having power over a corpse? How could that possibly make you feel better about yourself? Sick.

sunstar

04-27-2008, 08:14 PM

Originally posted by logicworks

According to the news, on Dateline, there was blood spatter, which is usually indicative of an impact 'blow'. If it were a simple case of placing the pillow over Bri's face to smother her, it doesn't sound like that would account for the spatter.

'Back at the house, KT made another discovery -- this one terrifying. There was blood -- a small amount, two spots and a spatter -- on the pillow that had been under Brianna’s head.'

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23750488/page/3/

It reads as if there had to have been impact of some type to either the nose or the head that caused the spatter on the pillow underneath.
From what I have read, ligature strangulation or smothering would not necessarily leave blood spatter.

Usually when death occurs there is a release of body fluids, urine, etc. so if she died there on the couch, there may have been evidence, on either the couch or possibly on the blanket, IIRC, found on the kitchen floor, to conclude she died in the house.
Otherwise, he would have had to carry her out very fast after hitting her to avoid leaving that evidence behind, and possibly he did.

If there was anything, it would seem the roommates would have noticed it, if they discovered the blanket in the kitchen.
Judging from the spatter alone, he had to have delivered a blow of some kind before carrying her out. How LE reached the conclusion she was dead while yet in the house is ???
JMO [/*]
I thought she might have coughed up blood, or it came from her nose. I was also thinking of the other "death evidence" that would be left behind, and wonder if it was present and that is why LE believes she died in the house? But I've never understood why he would've removed her dead body unless he is a necropheliac.

osubbfan

04-27-2008, 09:21 PM

Originally posted by sunstar

I thought she might have coughed up blood, or it came from her nose. I was also thinking of the other "death evidence" that would be left behind, and wonder if it was present and that is why LE believes she died in the house? But I've never understood why he would've removed her dead body unless he is a necropheliac. [/*]

There may have been just a small amount of "bodily fluid" evidence...it may not have been that noticeable. Thus, he may not have known if she had died or was just unconscious.

crimeq

04-27-2008, 09:52 PM

Originally posted by logicworks

According to the news, on Dateline, there was blood spatter, which is usually indicative of an impact 'blow'. If it were a simple case of placing the pillow over Bri's face to smother her, it doesn't sound like that would account for the spatter.

'Back at the house, KT made another discovery -- this one terrifying. There was blood -- a small amount, two spots and a spatter -- on the pillow that had been under Brianna’s head.'

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23750488/page/3/

It reads as if there had to have been impact of some type to either the nose or the head that caused the spatter on the pillow underneath.
From what I have read, ligature strangulation or smothering would not necessarily leave blood spatter.

Usually when death occurs there is a release of body fluids, urine, etc. so if she died there on the couch, there may have been evidence, on either the couch or possibly on the blanket, IIRC, found on the kitchen floor, to conclude she died in the house.
Otherwise, he would have had to carry her out very fast after hitting her to avoid leaving that evidence behind, and possibly he did.

If there was anything, it would seem the roommates would have noticed it, if they discovered the blanket in the kitchen.
Judging from the spatter alone, he had to have delivered a blow of some kind before carrying her out. How LE reached the conclusion she was dead while yet in the house is ???
JMO [/*]

I think he stood over her sleeping form and delivered a smacking blow with some kind of weapon, hard enough that he knew it would make her unconscious--that was his insurance that he could get her out of the house without her making much sound.

I agree that had she died immediately, there would have been release of bodily fluids, and there has been no report of finding such bodily fluids in the house.

I wondered if Bri's mom was told she died "nearly immediately" as solace, early on--or as a possibility very early in the investigation--and she still just wishes to believe it.

I cannot see LE deliberately leading her astray, though I think they would be careful how they worded statements to Bri's mom.

We don't know what LE told her; we don't know what LE knows but hasn't told the media.

But I, for one, do not believe that Bri died in the house as a result of the stunning blow. I believe she was carried out unconscious or semi-conscious.

sunstar

04-27-2008, 10:03 PM

Originally posted by osubbfan

There may have been just a small amount of "bodily fluid" evidence...it may not have been that noticeable. Thus, he may not have known if she had died or was just unconscious. [/*]
I think it's very possible she was rendered unconscious and never came back, so if LE told her mom she died there, that would basically be true. And it would be a comfort to her mom that she didn't suffer. I still believe she may have been more easily suffocated or strangled due to her cold and the inability to breathe that comes with it. :)

osubbfan

04-28-2008, 07:14 AM

Originally posted by crimeq

I think he stood over her sleeping form and delivered a smacking blow with some kind of weapon, hard enough that he knew it would make her unconscious--that was his insurance that he could get her out of the house without her making much sound.

I agree that had she died immediately, there would have been release of bodily fluids, and there has been no report of finding such bodily fluids in the house.

I wondered if Bri's mom was told she died "nearly immediately" as solace, early on--or as a possibility very early in the investigation--and she still just wishes to believe it.

I cannot see LE deliberately leading her astray, though I think they would be careful how they worded statements to Bri's mom.

We don't know what LE told her; we don't know what LE knows but hasn't told the media.

But I, for one, do not believe that Bri died in the house as a result of the stunning blow. I believe she was carried out unconscious or semi-conscious. [/*]

The only question I would have about such a blow to the head would be the amount of blood. According to reports it was a "small amount". Head and face injuries most often bleed heavily because the face and scalp have many blood vessels close to the surface of the skin. Even a minor injury could result in a large amount of bleeding.