April 7, 8

[CANDYKISSES]

Good morning. It looks like Lindell Kaye is working on a new crime blog where people can interact and gather information too.

Hopefully it will be a useful tool for the community who are so hoping for the capture of Cesar Laurean.

Hopefully Captain Sutherland will do some kind of update soon on the possibiities of good tips coming in from AMW.

I think some posters are looking for a link that addresses SB saying they thought Maria went to the house willingly. So if anyone remembers or has it, if you put it up it will be appreciated.

Still hanging on to hope for this crime to be solved. :patriot:

JMO

[SavannahStar]

Lynn is looking for that link too.

I don't recall myself that he said he thought she went willingly. But I know a number of us on here assumed that from other pieces of information.

[CANDYKISSES]

Unfortunately so much of this case is depending on when it was said as we went back and forth in the early stages with information LE was receiving IMO.

However, we know CS confirmed contact between Cesar and Maria and that there was no kidnapping charge levied with the other charges. IMO that was a move to possibly let us know there was a reason for no kidnapping charges, but that is nothing more than my opinion after reading his answer to that question coupled with some of his evasive answers to other questions.

AGAIN JMO.:patriot:

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES
Good morning. It looks like Lindell Kaye is working on a new crime blog where people can interact and gather information too.

Hopefully it will be a useful tool for the community who are so hoping for the capture of Cesar Laurean.

Hopefully Captain Sutherland will do some kind of update soon on the possibiities of good tips coming in from AMW.

I think some posters are looking for a link that addresses SB saying they thought Maria went to the house willingly. So if anyone remembers or has it, if you put it up it will be appreciated.

Still hanging on to hope for this crime to be solved. :patriot:

JMO [/*]

Thanks for bringing that up! I responded to Lynn's post, the phone rang, and by the time I hit "submit" the thread was closed.

Anyway, as I remember it...it was during one of the pc's (and I'm thinking it was right after the indictment) someone asked how they believed Maria ended up at Cesar's house and the reply was "the best evidence that we have indicates that she went there on her own" or "on her own accord". Words to that effect because again, this is just my best recollection.

Relying solely on memory here, but IIRC it was posted (not as a link, but as the pc was going on) and I wasn't the only one that heard it or commented on it.

That's narrowing down the timeline as close as I can, but I'm pretty sure that it was in reference to the indictment or shortly thereafter because there were no kidnapping charges filed.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES
Good morning. It looks like Lindell Kaye is working on a new crime blog where people can interact and gather information too.

Hopefully it will be a useful tool for the community who are so hoping for the capture of Cesar Laurean.

Hopefully Captain Sutherland will do some kind of update soon on the possibilities of good tips coming in from AMW.

I think some posters are looking for a link that addresses SB saying they thought Maria went to the house willingly. So if anyone remembers or has it, if you put it up it will be appreciated.

Still hanging on to hope for this crime to be solved. :patriot:

JMO [/*]

Good Morning All!

I am not sure LE has come out and stated that. It has been so long now it is really hard to remember back but it seems Trace Gallagher was in front of the Laurean home when he did a segment and he retraced what he said "LE inside sources" had told him and he talked about the ATM withdrawal, bus ticket and then coming to the Laurean home. IIRC he said something about she parked in the driveway (where he was standing at the time of the interview iirc).

But as Savannah has posted there are other things that also make one lean toward she came willingly imo. Just like when CS immediately came out and quashed the misinformation in the media about Maria being threatened when she made the ATM withdrawal nor did Laurean threaten Maria to give up her credit card information and only took the card after Maria's death. Also the big factor for me is there have been no kidnapping charges lodged against Laurean and kidnapping is a much more serious charge than a misdemeanor fraud charge when he attempted to use her card on 12-24.

Sutherland confuses me at times. The manhunt is handled through the FBI and US Marshall's office. Onslow County is not going out of their perimeters to search for him and usually when asked about that side of the investigation he declines to answer on the fugitive part of it. Yet he goes to AMW to answer the tip line. Will he once again say he can't comment on that part of the investigation because that is under another jurisdiction? So we may learn nothing even if there were viable tips. The Feds are always tight lipped.

imoo

[Squawk Box]

The only thing we will hear is when Cesar is caught. There is just NO WAY we will find anything out about the tips. imo

:rolleyes:

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


Thanks for bringing that up! I responded to Lynn's post, the phone rang, and by the time I hit "submit" the thread was closed.

Anyway, as I remember it...it was during one of the pc's (and I'm thinking it was right after the indictment) someone asked how they believed Maria ended up at Cesar's house and the reply was "the best evidence that we have indicates that she went there on her own" or "on her own accord". Words to that effect because again, this is just my best recollection.

Relying solely on memory here, but IIRC it was posted (not as a link, but as the pc was going on) and I wasn't the only one that heard it or commented on it.

That's narrowing down the timeline as close as I can, but I'm pretty sure that it was in reference to the indictment or shortly thereafter because there were no kidnapping charges filed. [/*]

I'm still looking too Cryme. I do remember something that he said indicating he believed she went to the house on her own accord too.

It's just like the other night, I started thinking about the Congressman's letter and suddenly dates and times coupled with the wording made sense and I knew I remembered it all, but couldn't put it together until rereading the letter.

There has been so much, yet so little out there and we have to weigh the value of what we're hearing in this case more often than not. ALL JMO and back to searching.

I'm going through the Ohio papers now. :seeya:

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


Thanks for bringing that up! I responded to Lynn's post, the phone rang, and by the time I hit "submit" the thread was closed.

Anyway, as I remember it...it was during one of the pc's (and I'm thinking it was right after the indictment) someone asked how they believed Maria ended up at Cesar's house and the reply was "the best evidence that we have indicates that she went there on her own" or "on her own accord". Words to that effect because again, this is just my best recollection.

Relying solely on memory here, but IIRC it was posted (not as a link, but as the pc was going on) and I wasn't the only one that heard it or commented on it.

That's narrowing down the timeline as close as I can, but I'm pretty sure that it was in reference to the indictment or shortly thereafter because there were no kidnapping charges filed. [/*]

Now that you have mentioned it Cryme, I do remember the press asking them why kidnapping charges weren't filed against him and this was their answer.

I do think they have no evidence at all that shows she was forced to come there. It may be as simple as the prior contact before coming there was initiated by Maria instead of Laurean. I have always felt the communication evidence of all kinds will be a major factor in this case.

imo:seeya:

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Good Morning All!

I am not sure LE has come out and stated that. It has been so long now it is really hard to remember back but it seems Trace Gallagher was in front of the Laurean home when he did a segment and he retraced what he said "LE inside sources" had told him and he talked about the ATM withdrawal, bus ticket and then coming to the Laurean home. IIRC he said something about she parked in the driveway (where he was standing at the time of the interview iirc).

But as Savannah has posted there are other things that also make one lean toward she came willingly imo. Just like when CS immediately came out and quashed the misinformation in the media about Maria being threatened when she made the ATM withdrawal nor did Laurean threaten Maria to give up her credit card information and only took the card after Maria's death. Also the big factor for me is there have been no kidnapping charges lodged against Laurean and kidnapping is a much more serious charge than a misdemeanor fraud charge when he attempted to use her card on 12-24.

Sutherland confuses me at times. The manhunt is handled through the FBI and US Marshall's office. Onslow County is not going out of their perimeters to search for him and usually when asked about that side of the investigation he declines to answer on the fugitive part of it. Yet he goes to AMW to answer the tip line. Will he once again say he can't comment on that part of the investigation because that is under another jurisdiction? So we may learn nothing even if there were viable tips. The Feds are always tight lipped.

imoo [/*]

Morning hope you're feeling better.

Now we may be getting a taste of that rivalry that exists between the various agencies and perhaps the lines have been drawn. ;) You know that happens when it involves more than one agency until everyone feels comfortable working together and has their connecting sources. I liken it to feeling their way around but that is JMO.

I think Sutherland is walking a tight rope right now and trying to comply with everyone from the other agencies to his own boss to the community he represents. ALL JMO.

I look forward to hearing something about AMW and what kind of calls they received, credible or not.

ALL JMO.

[sexxytazz]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/07/murdered.marine/index.html

Early on, Maria Lauterbach knew exactly what she wanted to do in life.

"After high school, I am going into the Marines," a smiling Lauterbach, dressed in her high school soccer uniform, says in a video made available exclusively to CNN. "I'll probably be doing that for 20 or 25 years, and then hopefully after that, becoming a cop."

Video... http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/07/murdered.marine/index.html#cnnSTCVideo

Video with Mary wanting answers.... http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/07/murdered.marine/index.html#cnnSTCVideo

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Now that you have mentioned it Cryme, I do remember the press asking them why kidnapping charges weren't filed against him and this was their answer.

I do think they have no evidence at all that shows she was forced to come there. It may be as simple as the prior contact before coming there was initiated by Maria instead of Laurean. I have always felt the communication evidence of all kinds will be a major factor in this case.

imo:seeya: [/*]

Ditto and I am praying this was a up and coming TEXTING GROUP as I see so many young people texting all the time. JMO.

I also think there might be email exchanges that will help out.

[strick10]

Originally posted by Squawk Box
The only thing we will hear is when Cesar is caught. There is just NO WAY we will find anything out about the tips. imo

:rolleyes: [/*]

I agree. To give out any tip info will only give CAL the advantage to stay ahead of the game. I wouldn't doubt that CAL watches what is being said probably via internet.

[SavannahStar]

New today on cnn:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/07/murdered.marine/index.html

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by SavannahStar
New today on cnn:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/07/murdered.marine/index.html [/*]

Thanks for the link. I wonder why the Marines have not answered the congressman's questions? If they did everything right it shouldn't take this long. Kudos to Mary for getting a lawyer and pushing for answers. This is for other female marines in the future.

JMO

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by strick10


I agree. To give out any tip info will only give CAL the advantage to stay ahead of the game. I wouldn't doubt that CAL watches what is being said probably via internet. [/*]

I agree. Being in Mexico does not stop his access to TV and the Internet. JMO

I wonder what he thought of himself on AMW?

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


I agree. Being in Mexico does not stop his access to TV and the Internet. JMO

I wonder what he thought of himself on AMW? [/*]

Well it sure gave him a heads up and not to wear a beard like they showed.

imoo

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Well it sure gave him a heads up and not to wear a beard like they showed.

imoo [/*]

:lol:

He probably laughed at that too!

[strick10]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


:lol:

He probably laughed at that too! [/*]

Yuppers he probably did.

[Regina.Lampert]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES
Unfortunately so much of this case is depending on when it was said as we went back and forth in the early stages with information LE was receiving IMO.

(snipped)

AGAIN JMO.:patriot: [/*]

Exactly right. Did Brown make this remark that she went willingly before he rolled to the podium and "lectured" poor Maria to stop the nonsense and return home, or after? Makes a world of difference, imo.

[Squawk Box]

I bet he shaved any facial hair off immediately. LOL That's probably what the FBI wanted him to do. He probably shaved his head too. LOL

:lol:

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert


Exactly right. Did Brown make this remark that she went willingly before he rolled to the podium and "lectured" poor Maria to stop the nonsense and return home, or after? Makes a world of difference, imo. [/*]

It was after her body was found.

I don't see how it could have been before.

:shrug:

ETA: I don't recall that it was Sheriff Brown that said it anyway.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


It was after her body was found.

I don't see how it could have been before.

:shrug:

ETA: I don't recall that it was Sheriff Brown that said it anyway. [/*]

Good ole Ed. He always had a way with words.:D

jmo

[caejde]

Rewatching some videos. And there is one with Capt. Sutherland and he says they requested that some search warrants be sealed. Wonder what those are.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by caejde
Rewatching some videos. And there is one with Capt. Sutherland and he says they requested that some search warrants be sealed. Wonder what those are. [/*]

The search warrant at Cesar's I would say is one.

jmo

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by caejde
Rewatching some videos. And there is one with Capt. Sutherland and he says they requested that some search warrants be sealed. Wonder what those are. [/*]

One would be the SW to the Laurean home. Another would be for Maria's car. DD's computer, Maria's cell phone records....

That's just a few off the top of my head.

:shrug:

[caejde]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


One would be the SW to the Laurean home. Another would be for Maria's car. DD's computer, Maria's cell phone records....

That's just a few off the top of my head.

:shrug: [/*]

Would that include Cesar's truck?

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES

(respectfully snipped)

I think some posters are looking for a link that addresses SB saying they thought Maria went to the house willingly. So if anyone remembers or has it, if you put it up it will be appreciated.
[/*]

My memory of this was from one of the early PCs - either Jan 11 or 12. Someone asked Sheriff Brown how ML got to the Laurean house and he said "she drove" or "she drove there" or something like that. I don't remember the PC Cryme is talking about, but I probably just missed that PC.

JMO

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


One would be the SW to the Laurean home. Another would be for Maria's car. DD's computer, Maria's cell phone records....

That's just a few off the top of my head.

:shrug: [/*]

True and all the cell phone records from the parents of Cesar and his relatives would be more. Wire taps if any and the warrant for wire transfers of money. Anything for the bank on financial matters of everyone.

jmo

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by caejde


Would that include Cesar's truck? [/*]

Yes, forgot about that one.

[caejde]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


One would be the SW to the Laurean home. Another would be for Maria's car. DD's computer, Maria's cell phone records....

That's just a few off the top of my head.

:shrug: [/*]

Those are some of what I was thinking...but I didn't know what all it would include.

[Squawk Box]

I can't wait for the answers to the congressman's letter to the MC. That should be really informative. I sure hope we get to see those answers.

jmo

[strick10]

Originally posted by Squawk Box
I can't wait for the answers to the congressman's letter to the MC. That should be really informative. I sure hope we get to see those answers.

jmo [/*]

I don't think we'll see the answers unless it's leaked to the media. If the congressman was willing and ready to lay out and publize the questions he should do the same w/ the answers.

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


My memory of this was from one of the early PCs - either Jan 11 or 12. Someone asked Sheriff Brown how ML got to the Laurean house and he said "she drove" or "she drove there" or something like that. I don't remember the PC Cryme is talking about, but I probably just missed that PC.

JMO [/*]

The 'she drove it there' was an answer to a question posed by a reporter at the PC given by Sheriff Brown on 1/11/2007

QUESTION: Sheriff, I spoke to the man who says he sold Maria Lauterbach that bus ticket. Is that not the case that she ...

BROWN: No, because I just said, she did purchase a ticket, yes. Yes, she did purchase the ticket. But remember, it was not redeemed. It was not used.

QUESTION: How did her car end back up at the bus station?

BROWN: She drove it there.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0801/11/ywt.01.html

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny


The 'she drove it there' was an answer to a question posed by a reporter at the PC given by Sheriff Brown on 1/11/2007

QUESTION: Sheriff, I spoke to the man who says he sold Maria Lauterbach that bus ticket. Is that not the case that she ...

BROWN: No, because I just said, she did purchase a ticket, yes. Yes, she did purchase the ticket. But remember, it was not redeemed. It was not used.

QUESTION: How did her car end back up at the bus station?

BROWN: She drove it there.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0801/11/ywt.01.html [/*]

Thanks, Lynn! I thought he also said "she drove" to the Laurean house, but maybe that is just confused in my mind.

JMO

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Now that you have mentioned it Cryme, I do remember the press asking them why kidnapping charges weren't filed against him and this was their answer.

I do think they have no evidence at all that shows she was forced to come there. It may be as simple as the prior contact before coming there was initiated by Maria instead of Laurean. I have always felt the communication evidence of all kinds will be a major factor in this case.

imo:seeya: [/*]

I just re-listened to the PC about the indictment from 1/24/2008 where D.A. Dewey Hudson takes questions from the reporters. The questions are at times difficult to hear but the content of Mr. Hudson's answers gives indications of what the question was about. I also went back to find the thread/discussion during that PC.

After listening, the charge of 'kidnapping' not being included was not addressed by either D.A. Hudson or at the end of the PC by Capt. Sutherland and it appears that no question by any of the reporters was asked regarding that. Here's the link to the video of that PC:

http://www.wral.com/news/local/video/2349115/

Here's the link to the page where discussion begins about there not being an indictment for kidnapping and what that could possibly have meant in regards to no kidnapping charge against Laurean.

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?threadid=323133&perpage=40&pagenumber=13 (starting with the post by BobbysGirl towards the end of the page)

[strick10]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


Thanks, Lynn! I thought he also said "she drove" to the Laurean house, but maybe that is just confused in my mind.

JMO [/*]

No gpeas you're not confused. I remember that he said that she drove to the L's home. I'll help look for that when I finish my drawings.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny


I just re-listened to the PC about the indictment from 1/24/2008 where D.A. Dewey Hudson takes questions from the reporters. The questions are at times difficult to hear but the content of Mr. Hudson's answers gives indications of what the question was about. I also went back to find the thread/discussion during that PC.

After listening, the charge of 'kidnapping' not being included was not addressed by either D.A. Hudson or at the end of the PC by Capt. Sutherland and it appears that no question by any of the reporters was asked regarding that. Here's the link to the video of that PC:

http://www.wral.com/news/local/video/2349115/

Here's the link to the page where discussion begins about there not being an indictment for kidnapping and what that could possibly have meant in regards to no kidnapping charge against Laurean.

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?threadid=323133&perpage=40&pagenumber=13 (starting with the post by BobbysGirl towards the end of the page) [/*]

Thanks, Lynn...

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by strick10


No gpeas you're not confused. I remember that he said that she drove to the L's home. I'll help look for that when I finish my drawings. [/*]

I heard it too, but can't remember when and who said it. Apparently it WASN'T at the indictment pc (hat tip Lynn).

Honestly, if I had never heard it, I wouldn't be repeating it but that's just me.

:shrug:

[gaelicpeas]

I must say that it is odd for Sheriff Brown to say ML drove her car back to the bus station - wasn't she dead then? Or do they think CL and ML went back to the bus station a second time and then CL brought her back to his house? If so, that shortens the timeline even further (to something like 15 minutes!). This case is confusing....

JMO

(edited to add: I am not questioning your link, Lynn! I am just questioning Sheriff Brown and why he thinks that!)

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


I heard it too, but can't remember when and who said it. Apparently it WASN'T at the indictment pc (hat tip Lynn).

Honestly, if I had never heard it, I wouldn't be repeating it but that's just me.

:shrug: [/*]

I believe you, Cryme. My memory of what I heard was a very terse response to the reporter's question - just "she drove" or something. He was getting rapid-fire questions and seemed a little frustrated.

JMO

[caejde]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
I must say that it is odd for Sheriff Brown to say ML drove her car back to the bus station - wasn't she dead then? Or do they think CL and ML went back to the bus station a second time and then CL brought her back to his house? If so, that shortens the timeline even further (to something like 15 minutes!). This case is confusing....

JMO [/*]

I wonder if that's what they thought at the time. Remember when he said that, they just found out she was dead. If she had indeed drove the car back, Sutherland wouldn't have said that it wasn't there the whole time. So I don't think they believe she drove it there.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by caejde


I wonder if that's what they thought at the time. Remember when he said that, they just found out she was dead. If she had indeed drove the car back, Sutherland wouldn't have said that it wasn't there the whole time. So I don't think they believe she drove it there. [/*]

Well good, because if so, there is just no way CL had time to do everything in 15 minutes!

JMO

[Squawk Box]

The link to the PC and watching it just reminds me again how Ciccarelli was already in a cover up mode and showed more concern for that then for the murder of Maria. He actually acted like the Marines broke the case wide open when in reality that was only because Christina went to them first.

Also the information he was going on that Maria and Cesar had a friendly relationship was gotten only from Cesar's note.

JMO

[Land Shark®]

Mother of slain Marine: 'I want women to be better protected' (http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/07/murdered.marine/index.html)

"I disagree that the review is complete," Turner told CNN. "This is a matter where clearly there is a tragic death, there is a national interest in other women that are serving, and this is a matter that deserves higher scrutiny."

[martha]

Hi everyone I guess there is no good news today. I keep coming back to make sure cl is not caught. I guess if he was it would be on the news but I am not watching it today. I will be checking back on all of you from time to time today.:rose:

[gaelicpeas]

I wonder where ML's car was. I suppose it could be parked a block or two away on a street or something, but that seems risky. More likely to me is that it was parked in someone's garage... hmmm...

I believe a neighbor said he had seen it in CL's driveway, which also seems risky. I am assuming her car was there on Dec 14, but it makes no sense to me that it would be there after Dec 14. Wouldn't CSL see it? Unless it was just there briefly while CSL was at work or something - does anyone know if CL and CSL worked the same hours then?

I wish Captain Sutherland had been a bit more specific about when her car "reappeared" at the bus station.

JMO

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
I wonder where ML's car was. I suppose it could be parked a block or two away on a street or something, but that seems risky. More likely to me is that it was parked in someone's garage... hmmm...

I believe a neighbor said he had seen it in CL's driveway, which also seems risky. I am assuming her car was there on Dec 14, but it makes no sense to me that it would be there after Dec 14. Wouldn't CSL see it? Unless it was just there briefly while CSL was at work or something - does anyone know if CL and CSL worked the same hours then?

I wish Captain Sutherland had been a bit more specific about when her car "reappeared" at the bus station.

JMO [/*]

I have always wondered if there is a parking lot area close to Cesar's house like for a store or apartment complex. Some where with a very short walking distance to his house. A place to temporarily leave Maria's car and it not be noticed.

jmo

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
I wonder where ML's car was. I suppose it could be parked a block or two away on a street or something, but that seems risky. More likely to me is that it was parked in someone's garage... hmmm...

I believe a neighbor said he had seen it in CL's driveway, which also seems risky. I am assuming her car was there on Dec 14, but it makes no sense to me that it would be there after Dec 14. Wouldn't CSL see it? Unless it was just there briefly while CSL was at work or something - does anyone know if CL and CSL worked the same hours then?

I wish Captain Sutherland had been a bit more specific about when her car "reappeared" at the bus station.

JMO [/*]

IF her car was parked in the driveway or in front of the house, i would think it more likely to be unplanned. IF it was planned, and the killer was not smart enough to have the car parked somewhere else, it is amazing to me that cl has made it this long on the run. jmo

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


I believe you, Cryme. My memory of what I heard was a very terse response to the reporter's question - just "she drove" or something. He was getting rapid-fire questions and seemed a little frustrated.

JMO [/*]

Here's the video of the PC where SB answers the question about Maria's car and his answer "she drove it there". It starts at @ 10:10. Just click on the link: Sheriff Brown Noon Press Conference 1/11/08 to access the video:

http://www.witntv.com/home/headlines/13678602.html

[daniel green]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


snipped This is for other female marines in the future.

JMO [/*]

That's not why ppl hire lawyers to sue something or someone.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by daniel green


That's not why ppl hire lawyers to sue something or someone. [/*]

What?:shrug:

[Regina.Lampert]

Originally posted by daniel green


That's not why ppl hire lawyers to sue something or someone. [/*]
Sure it is. If what comes out in this lawsuit proves the mc acted with callous disregard for Maria Lauterbach's safety while under their care, things will change for the better for all enlisted women, IMO.

[AlohaRainbow]

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert

Sure it is. If what comes out in this lawsuit proves the mc acted with callous disregard for Maria Lauterbach's safety while under their care, things will change for the better for all enlisted women, IMO. [/*]
has a lawsuit been filed?

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by AlohaRainbow

has a lawsuit been filed? [/*]

Not that I know of and I wasn't referring to a lawsuit in my original post. Daniel Green brought that up.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
I wonder where ML's car was. I suppose it could be parked a block or two away on a street or something, but that seems risky. More likely to me is that it was parked in someone's garage... hmmm...

I believe a neighbor said he had seen it in CL's driveway, which also seems risky. I am assuming her car was there on Dec 14, but it makes no sense to me that it would be there after Dec 14. Wouldn't CSL see it? Unless it was just there briefly while CSL was at work or something - does anyone know if CL and CSL worked the same hours then?

I wish Captain Sutherland had been a bit more specific about when her car "reappeared" at the bus station.

JMO [/*]

I still would like to know if the garage was used for a vehicle. I think all the stuff was strewn about to make it appear the garage wasn't being used to park a vehicle. It would have the appearance that they were in the middle of painting the garage and had everything pulled out.

IMO her car was inside the garage and when he was seen by the neighbor was when he was pulling out of the driveway in it to take it to the bus station to park it. That would make sense since the worker at one of the stores said it had been parked there the day of the 15th.

It is just not feasible that he parked it a block or so away where it could be spotted or remembered. He was so pressed for time imo if he did all of this having everything completed by around 7 pm anyway.

IMO she drove it there and he had no choice but to remove it from the premises to get rid of it. Now it would be interesting to know when he did so........how did he get back home from the parking lot?

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert

Sure it is. If what comes out in this lawsuit proves the mc acted with callous disregard for Maria Lauterbach's safety while under their care, things will change for the better for all enlisted women, IMO. [/*]

What lawsuit?

imo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Squawk Box
The link to the PC and watching it just reminds me again how Ciccarelli was already in a cover up mode and showed more concern for that then for the murder of Maria. He actually acted like the Marines broke the case wide open when in reality that was only because Christina went to them first.

Also the information he was going on that Maria and Cesar had a friendly relationship was gotten only from Cesar's note.

JMO [/*]

Did he say it was from Cesar's note?

I dont recall him saying that.

imoo

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert

~snip: If what comes out in this lawsuit [/*]
:confused:

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I still would like to know if the garage was used for a vehicle. I think all the stuff was strewn about to make it appear the garage wasn't being used to park a vehicle. It would have the appearance that they were in the middle of painting the garage and had everything pulled out.

IMO her car was inside the garage and when he was seen by the neighbor was when he was pulling out of the driveway in it to take it to the bus station to park it. That would make sense since the worker at one of the stores said it had been parked there the day of the 15th.

It is just not feasible that he parked it a block or so away where it could be spotted or remembered. He was so pressed for time imo if he did all of this having everything completed by around 7 pm anyway.

IMO she drove it there and he had no choice but to remove it from the premises to get rid of it. Now it would be interesting to know when he did so........how did he get back home from the parking lot?

imoo [/*]

He had it gone before Christina arrived home at 7 pm on the 14th. If he parked it close temporarily, he walked back home. He didn't have time to take it to the bus station that day.
I think he moved it to the bus station on the 15th when he had time to do so and walk home without Christina noticing. Maybe she was not home on the 15th. I think LE knows exactly what he did.


The garage was far to cluttered to have a car in there.

I believe a car can be parked somewhere temporarily and not be noticed. Maybe LE did an area canvas of people within a short distance of his home. Just saying....

All jmo

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by AlohaRainbow

has a lawsuit been filed? [/*]

Well Aloha, here's what I'm thinking referencing the lawyers and the Lauterbach's....

It sounds so much better for them and their supporters blaming the USMC for choices Maria may have made impulsively while the USMC had a protective order in place for her IMHO.

How sad the lengths some will go to in an effort to discredit an organization who tried to help this young woman. Who knows, just maybe if Mary and Peter had acted on their suspicions, just mabye we wouldn't even be here.

IF Mary and Peter suspected she was bipolar, they should have made sure she was checked for it prior to sending her off. The day a mother has to screen calls from her daughter in the military is a sad day for any mother I know.

We have so many discrepancies in the story they have out there, but the concerns they have seem to be based on her looks, her figure, being the perfect victim and removing beer from the myspace IMO.

I HOPE and PRAY the USMC lets everything out. It's important for the public to be aware of what has gone on.

These policies on sexual assault and bipolar are works in progress and sometimes things need to change, but I think personal responsibility is key in this too.

The latest damage control via CNN after Nancy Grace has called it like it is borders the realm of desperate attempts to fix the broken.

While it was very saddening to see Maria at her soccer game, the purpose behind this latest round of damage control remains to be seen IMO. I hope it's not being used to dismiss the damage already inflicted by this family. I will never forget the non-chalant manner Peter discussed the early years for Anne and Maria and I hope someone really let him have it over that.

It's time to start recognizing the early signs of something being wrong at home and that might be a great platform for Mary IMO.

The murderer is responsible for their lack of control in murdering her, but I believe there may be contributing factors that should have been looked into before Maria went into the service IMO.

ALL JMO based on months of reading and following this case. :(

:patriot: Saluting all those who preserve the intergrity of our MILITARY SERVICES by their service.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Did he say it was from Cesar's note?

I dont recall him saying that.

imoo [/*]

I don't either, hopefully there is a link to that GB. :o
jmo

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Did he say it was from Cesar's note?

I dont recall him saying that.

imoo [/*]

That's all he had to go on at that time. jmo

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


What lawsuit?

imo [/*]

Patience, it's coming. imo

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


I don't either, hopefully there is a link to that GB. :o
jmo [/*]

Nope, it was my opinion.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


He had it gone before Christina arrived home at 7 pm on the 14th. If he parked it close temporarily, he walked back home. He didn't have time to take it to the bus station that day.
I think he moved it to the bus station on the 15th when he had time to do so and walk home without Christina noticing. Maybe she was not home on the 15th. I think LE knows exactly what he did.


The garage was far to cluttered to have a car in there.

I believe a car can be parked somewhere temporarily and not be noticed. Maybe LE did an area canvas of people within a short distance of his home. Just saying....

All jmo [/*]

The garage was cluttered in January. We have no idea what it looked like on Dec. 14th.

Walked 6.5 miles without being seen?:confused:

imo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


That's all he had to go on at that time. jmo [/*]

How do you know? Maybe other Marines had already told them that they had seen each other beyond when she made the allegation in May and they had been trying to verify that?

imoo

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by nelkirk


ITA

Lawsuits are all about compensation. You can only sue for compensation or to be blunt dollars and cents...money.

That is the only compensation that a court of law can give the plaintiff is in cash. The court has no jurisdiction to change something that is up to the legislative branch of the government.

The court wants to know to know how much money you want for the wrong dont to you...

As in wrongful death...

Hiring a well known attorney and getting your face and story in the media is all about PR.... [/*]


I would think the MC wouldn't be happy to see this man as Mary's attorney. Check link.

What happens when the MC has to start paying out money for lawsuits, they change their own procedures to make sure the lawsuits stop in the future. That's how that works.

http://iowapoliticalalert.blogspot.com/2008/03/breda-iowa-native-representing-family.html

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


*snipped*

IMO she drove it there and he had no choice but to remove it from the premises to get rid of it. Now it would be interesting to know when he did so........how did he get back home from the parking lot?

imoo [/*]

I think Deepak picked him up and drove him home.

OH PLEASE FORGIVE ME CW, I COULDN'T RESIST. :lol:

Me----------->hammer

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by nelkirk


That is just plain malarkey...

A lawsuit doesn't do anything but put money in the hands of the plaintiff and their attorney!

If you want to chage the system you have to go through the legislature...

Everyday children like Polly Klass and Adam Walsh are murdered and their parents didn't sue their killers or sue the system...THEY went to the public and the lehislature in order to enact laws that changed the system Adam Alerts and Amber Alerts save kids today because not because these parents went to court but bec ause they selflessly worked with the system for change. [/*]


Well, the MC can just keep paying out lawsuit judgments or change their own procedures. It's up to them.:shrug:

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by nelkirk


That is just plain malarkey...

A lawsuit doesn't do anything but put money in the hands of the plaintiff and their attorney!

If you want to chage the system you have to go through the legislature...

Everyday children like Polly Klass and Adam Walsh are murdered and their parents didn't sue their killers or sue the system...THEY went to the public and the lehislature in order to enact laws that changed the system Adam Alerts and Amber Alerts save kids today because not because these parents went to court but bec ause they selflessly worked with the system for change. [/*]

:beer: Well said, and true!

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


:beer: Well said, and true! [/*]


How so? The killers that weren't sued didn't have deep pockets. The MC does have very deep pockets. Just saying.........jmo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


Well Aloha, here's what I'm thinking referencing the lawyers and the Lauterbach's....

It sounds so much better for them and their supporters blaming the USMC for choices Maria may have made impulsively while the USMC had a protective order in place for her IMHO.

How sad the lengths some will go to in an effort to discredit an organization who tried to help this young woman. Who knows, just maybe if Mary and Peter had acted on their suspicions, just mabye we wouldn't even be here.

IF Mary and Peter suspected she was bipolar, they should have made sure she was checked for it prior to sending her off. The day a mother has to screen calls from her daughter in the military is a sad day for any mother I know.

We have so many discrepancies in the story they have out there, but the concerns they have seem to be based on her looks, her figure, being the perfect victim and removing beer from the myspace IMO.

I HOPE and PRAY the USMC lets everything out. It's important for the public to be aware of what has gone on.

These policies on sexual assault and bipolar are works in progress and sometimes things need to change, but I think personal responsibility is key in this too.

The latest damage control via CNN after Nancy Grace has called it like it is borders the realm of desperate attempts to fix the broken.

While it was very saddening to see Maria at her soccer game, the purpose behind this latest round of damage control remains to be seen IMO. I hope it's not being used to dismiss the damage already inflicted by this family. I will never forget the non-chalant manner Peter discussed the early years for Anne and Maria and I hope someone really let him have it over that.

It's time to start recognizing the early signs of something being wrong at home and that might be a great platform for Mary IMO.

The murderer is responsible for their lack of control in murdering her, but I believe there may be contributing factors that should have been looked into before Maria went into the service IMO.

ALL JMO based on months of reading and following this case. :(

:patriot: Saluting all those who preserve the integrity of our MILITARY SERVICES by their service. [/*]

:patriot:

IMOO, Maria was not Marine Corps material. If what we have learned is the truth and I believe it is, she was not ready for such a hard structured, disciplined and sometimes lonely life. To only be in the Corps for less than two years and already had to be given counseling for the outlandish lie she told about her little brother being killed to being UA on more than one occasion shows imo her family should have urged her to try to get out of the Corps or not join in the first place. IMO Maria just was not adapting.

Maybe Uncle Peter is right and Maria was bi-polar and the Corps failed to diagnose her with it. She very well could have used that as a reason to leave the Corps if she divulge that information and they ran diagnostic testings proving it was indeed true. Maybe this is one of the reasons that Mary said that Maria had struggled for many years before she even joined the MC. Surely they got her help back then I would think but it seems they didn't because Mary never mentioned they saw to it that she got help with her struggles.

I do agree with you Candy. Maria had problems way before she went to the Marine Corps and I think the stress of military life only exacerbated them.

imoo

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by Squawk Box



How so? The killers that weren't sued didn't have deep pockets. The MC does have very deep pockets. Just saying.........jmo [/*]

Nelkirk is explaining this much better than I ever could.

[Regina.Lampert]

Originally posted by nelkirk


That is just plain malarkey...

A lawsuit doesn't do anything but put money in the hands of the plaintiff and their attorney!

If you want to chage the system you have to go through the legislature...

Everyday children like Polly Klass and Adam Walsh are murdered and their parents didn't sue their killers or sue the system...THEY went to the public and the lehislature in order to enact laws that changed the system Adam Alerts and Amber Alerts save kids today because not because these parents went to court but bec ause they selflessly worked with the system for change. [/*]

Just plain malarkey, not the fancy kind? I'm hurt.......<pout>.........lol. Time will tell this story imo, but I still believe that a large settlement paid would have the effect of procedures being changed to prevent another incident, thus protecting enlisted women. :cool:

[caejde]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


How do you know? Maybe other Marines had already told them that they had seen each other beyond when she made the allegation in May and they had been trying to verify that?

imoo [/*]

When that statment was made about information that morning being given that showed that a "friendly relationship" had kept going. Durham was in the sheriff's department prior to that press conference. And the sheriff said that Durham did provide them with information but no information that related to her disappearance/death.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


I think Deepak picked him up and drove him home.

OH PLEASE FORGIVE ME CW, I COULDN'T RESIST. :lol:

Me----------->hammer [/*]

:lol:

Nope, Squawk says he walked home. LMAO!

Nice to see ya today, Savannah!

I am taking a tax break. lol

imoo

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by nelkirk


Nope YOU the taxpayer will fork over the cash in any lawsuit that involves the military.


And if you think that she will win, think again.

She will only be compensated IF the court agress that she has presented a proponderance of the evidence that the USMC was negligent..

Preponderance is evidence of a quality and quantity which leads the decision maker to objectively conclude that the existence or truth of the fact(s) asserted is more probable than not. [/*]

There is enough evidence out there in the public domain to show who was doing damage to the case IMO.

Not just that Nel, but the fact that they admit they had suspcions of a mental disorder and my money says nobody was upfront about that with the USMC IMO.

Add to it the possibility of her making a false allegation during her time with the USMC and if they have the goods on continuing contact and any evaluations in place, it will get UGLY and the LAUTERBACH family may be sorry they tried to blame someone else for their failings too.

I am an advocate of putting a high alert out when any pregnant woman goes missing or LEAVES OF HER OWN ACCORD at a time when she is close to her due date as it shows a possibility of the unborn baby being in danger IMO. Even doctors don't recommend travel after a certain point.

I am not an advocate of digging in deep pockets when you might have a hand in all that went wrong too. I would love to know what all Mary told the USMC when she confirmed the brother was alive. My guess is she may have been just as forthcoming on the spot as she was in the beginning when she was labeling Maria and she may have added to the record for Maria.

JMO and nothing more. :shrug:

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by nelkirk


Nope YOU the taxpayer will fork over the cash in any lawsuit that involves the military.


And if you think that she will win, think again.

She will only be compensated IF the court agress that she has presented a proponderance of the evidence that the USMC was negligent..

Preponderance is evidence of a quality and quantity which leads the decision maker to objectively conclude that the existence or truth of the fact(s) asserted is more probable than not.

The mom and her attorney are in CYA mode and that is why they are on TV to as CK outs it "rewrite history" and the keep the public stirred up against the MC.... It's all about PR... [/*]


I hardly think they are the ones in a CYA mode. Look to the MC for that.

I know about preponderance of evidence, but thanks for the civil law lesson.

As far as being a tax payer, I would rather see my money go to marines and their families here then go to Iraq for this non war that is killing our young men and women there.

jmo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by caejde


When that statment was made about information that morning being given that showed that a "friendly relationship" had kept going. Durham was in the sheriff's department prior to that press conference. And the sheriff said that Durham did provide them with information but no information that related to her disappearance/death. [/*]

Ah............I forgot about Durham.

Thanks, caejde!

imoo

[caejde]

I see it's blame the Marine Corps and make them pay day again. When are we going to have a let's make the murderer pay day?

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by caejde


When that statment was made about information that morning being given that showed that a "friendly relationship" had kept going. Durham was in the sheriff's department prior to that press conference. And the sheriff said that Durham did provide them with information but no information that related to her disappearance/death. [/*]

So was Christina with the notes. jmo

[Regina.Lampert]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


:patriot:

IMOO, Maria was not Marine Corps material. If what we have learned is the truth and I believe it is, she was not ready for such a hard structured, disciplined and sometimes lonely life. To only be in the Corps for less than two years and already had to be given counseling for the outlandish lie she told about her little brother being killed to being UA on more than one occasion shows imo her family should have urged her to try to get out of the Corps or not join in the first place. IMO Maria just was not adapting.

Maybe Uncle Peter is right and Maria was bi-polar and the Corps failed to diagnose her with it. She very well could have used that as a reason to leave the Corps if she divulge that information and they ran diagnostic testings proving it was indeed true. Maybe this is one of the reasons that Mary said that Maria had struggled for many years before she even joined the MC. Surely they got her help back then I would think but it seems they didn't because Mary never mentioned they saw to it that she got help with her struggles.

I do agree with you Candy. Maria had problems way before she went to the Marine Corps and I think the stress of military life only exacerbated them.

imoo [/*]

I don't see any evidence that Maria wasn't a good Marine, a solid one even. However, there is absolutely no doubt that laurean WAS NOT marine material. IMO.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


:lol:

Nope, Squawk says he walked home. LMAO!

Nice to see ya today, Savannah!

I am taking a tax break. lol

imoo [/*]

Can't a big brave Marine walk or jog a mere 6 miles. LOL

[Regina.Lampert]

Originally posted by nelkirk


Big settlements do NOT change the system, they just transfer money into the pockets of attorneys. This is especially true of the government.

The MC gets it's money from the DOD which gets it's money from the government coffers, which gets it's money from bills passed by Congress that money will come right from the TAXPAYER... [/*]

I disagree with your premise. IMO, big awards can and do change policy in order to reduce claims in the future.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by caejde


When that statment was made about information that morning being given that showed that a "friendly relationship" had kept going. Durham was in the sheriff's department prior to that press conference. And the sheriff said that Durham did provide them with information but no information that related to her disappearance/death. [/*]

Exactly! Durham was being interviewed by NCIS at the time of that pc - Sheriff Brown said he had not even had a chance to talk with him yet. IMO, Durham gave them information about a "relationship" (whatever that entailed) between Maria and Cesar.

JMO

[Regina.Lampert]

Originally posted by caejde
I see it's blame the Marine Corps and make them pay day again. When are we going to have a let's make the murderer pay day? [/*]

I think once laurean is captured and returned to the US, the family can initiate a wrongful death suit against him. But, more then likely that will be done after the trial. IMO.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


:patriot:

IMOO, Maria was not Marine Corps material. If what we have learned is the truth and I believe it is, she was not ready for such a hard structured, disciplined and sometimes lonely life. To only be in the Corps for less than two years and already had to be given counseling for the outlandish lie she told about her little brother being killed to being UA on more than one occasion shows imo her family should have urged her to try to get out of the Corps or not join in the first place. IMO Maria just was not adapting.

Maybe Uncle Peter is right and Maria was bi-polar and the Corps failed to diagnose her with it. She very well could have used that as a reason to leave the Corps if she divulge that information and they ran diagnostic testings proving it was indeed true. Maybe this is one of the reasons that Mary said that Maria had struggled for many years before

she even joined the MC. Surely they got her help back then I would think but it seems they didn't because Mary never mentioned they saw to it that she got help with her struggles.

I do agree with you Candy. Maria had problems way before she went to the Marine Corps and I think the stress of military life only exacerbated them.

imoo [/*]

I've seen parents in denial about some of the disorders I suspect concerning Maria, and they keep comforting themselves because of what someone might think or say.

I can remember when we had a behavior therapist address the middle school and how they talked about concentration problems and failing out of classes, being the class clown or just failing to adapt and how important a diagnosis was. A psychiatrist was there too and he explained it in a very simple manner. He spoke about it like a traffic light and when these kids are feeling impulsive,some of the medications used help them see the yellow light before acting out of turn.

Many parents were dismayed at the idea of medication because they didn't want it on the child's record and I was shocked.

I think Maria got a raw deal but I am not ready to blame the USMC. From watching the family in action, I am just stunned by some of their behavior.

I am ready and more than ready to blame the murderer or murderers who did this to her.

However, the things that were leading up to a tragedy like this can not be overlooked. Just like the USMC should review their policies, the family should be looking at all the things they did and didn't do. I am so glad much of this is on video so there will be no hiding from their words. It's time for us to see some personal responsibility and accountability for their role too IMO.

I will not advocate base moves without HARD EVIDENCE as I genuinely feel it would compromise our military if we started allowing an allegation to net a base move. Oh yeah, and what about those who are victims of physical assaults?? Shouldn't they get that same treatment??

Well, that list can go on and on GB, so they do the best they can to provide for their people. That said, they can't be the conscience for an accuser or the accused IMO. That all began somewhere else and the USMC presumes they are getting people who are being honest about their health mental and physical.

I wouldn't mind seeing a high alert in place for pregnant women leaving under stress in the last month of pregnancy. I would welcome that, but we can't control everything IMO.

:patriot:Still seeking justice for Maria and all MY OPINION.

[caejde]

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert


I think once laurean is captured and returned to the US, the family can initiate a wrongful death suit against him. But, more then likely that will be done after the trial. IMO. [/*]

What will they get from that?? Not like he's made of money.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by nelkirk


Mary Lauterbach had changed her story many times in many venues. Even the alleged conversations between mother and duaghter have been tweaked repeatedly depending on the audience... [/*]


:confused:

--snipped--" because that is not germane to the topic"


That was not part of my post. Are you confused as to whose post you are answering?

[Regina.Lampert]

Originally posted by caejde


What will they get from that?? Not like he's made of money. [/*]

More then likely nothing......unless the stellar one writes a book about his adventures........... :mad:

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by caejde


What will they get from that?? Not like he's made of money. [/*]

You took the words right outta my mouth. One of my pet peeves in our "litigious society" today.

After he goes to trial???? I actually believe he WILL be found guilty of her murder and be punished accordingly. Why the family would want to further take action with a "wrongful death suit" is just abhorrent to me. I hope not.

And you're right, caejde, what would they get from it? That is just crazy.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by caejde


What will they get from that?? Not like he's made of money. [/*]

The MC is and they failed to protect Maria causing one of their own to murder her. jmo

[Regina.Lampert]

Originally posted by Squawk Box



:confused:

--snipped--" because that is not germane to the topic"


That was not part of my post. Are you confused as to whose post you are answering? [/*]

Repeat after me: The victim's Mother is not the one on trial......... :patriot:

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


The MC is and they failed to protect Maria causing one of their own to murder her. jmo [/*]

That wasn't what Regina was talking about, with the wrongful death suit. Read back her post.

[caejde]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


The MC is and they failed to protect Maria causing one of their own to murder her. jmo [/*]

I was asking a question in response to the family filing a wrongful death suit on Cesar.

And you can keep living in this fantasy world of yours if you'd like where you think the Marine Corps is wrong. But they didn't force him to kill her. They didn't cause her death. They didn't fail to protect anyone. DA Hudson even said that he sat and had a meeting with the Marines and NCIS because he questioned their policies. And he said that he felt satisfied that they did everything correct.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by caejde
I see it's blame the Marine Corps and make them pay day again. When are we going to have a let's make the murderer pay day? [/*]

He doesn't have money and justice has just taken a backseat IMO. :(

I have seen the cries for settlements and justice and when the truth is revealed and there is no settlement, there is a deafening silence. I continue to feel encouraged the USMC will eventually reveal what was really going on, and it's not going to be what they want to hear.

Remember, the mother has gone on the air and said some very damaging things about her daughter, admitted there was reason to question credibility, admitted SHE HERSELF was SCREENING CALLS from her daughter because she called too often.

Just imagine what hay this will all make and in the interest of truth and justice the WHOLE STORY needs to come out now if they are going to accuse the USMC IMO.

Let's go to a mother who hears from her daughter that much she screens her calls, but she listens to a 20 something kid tell her not to report missing.

Let's hear about the other UA's and if they were days and what the result was. Let's hear about contact after the MPO if there was any and what was going on.

FIELD DAY is all I can say. The USMC can not be the conscience for your child and those believing that need to encourage their children to do other things.

PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY is KEY in LIFE PERIOD IMO.

We all have a part in the role we play in life and we can't blame everyone else for the failures. What happened is a TRAGEDY no doubt, but there were warning signs that something bad might happen IMO.

JMO tho. :patriot:

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


That wasn't what Regina was talking about, with the wrongful death suit. Read back her post. [/*]


That's what I have been talking about. Read back to my posts.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by caejde


I was asking a question in response to the family filing a wrongful death suit on Cesar.

And you can keep living in this fantasy world of yours if you'd like where you think the Marine Corps is wrong. But they didn't force him to kill her. They didn't cause her death. They didn't fail to protect anyone. DA Hudson even said that he sat and had a meeting with the Marines and NCIS because he questioned their policies. And he said that he felt satisfied that they did everything correct. [/*]

Seems the congressman doesn't think the same. The mc needs to answer his questions. What's taking so long if they did nothing wrong?

jmo

[caejde]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


Seems the congressman doesn't think the same. The mc needs to answer his questions. What's taking so long if they did nothing wrong.

jmo [/*]

It's possible they have their answers. I doubt the Marine Corps will release the answers to the public. And I doubt they have anything to hide. This isn't some big conspiracy like you want to make it out to be. The Congressman wants to give the family answers. I think they deserve those answers...just dont' know if they will like what they hear. Everything may not be painted picture perfect. And some of those answers they aren't going to get because of privacy issues.

[caejde]

I am really baffled at how so many think the Marine Corps is guilty of something....when there is nothing to show that they did anything wrong. They will have paper trails and I hope it does come out that they followed their procedures and protocols and that everything was done as it should. But I'm sure even if that is done, some will still blame them.

[Kel65]

IIRC, Mary said that Maria had a problem with occasional compulsive lying.

This question keeps popping in the back of mind. How can someone have a problem with "occasional" compulsive lying? To me it seems that the words occasional and compulsive almost contradict each other. Doesn't compulsive mean that a person doesn't have control and their compulsion is habitual.

Just wondering and JMO.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


Seems the congressman doesn't think the same. The mc needs to answer his questions. What's taking so long if they did nothing wrong?

jmo [/*]

Didn't it take him months just to write the MC? Does he have the authority to set a deadline of when they must reply?

imoo

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by caejde


It's possible they have their answers. I doubt the Marine Corps will release the answers to the public. And I doubt they have anything to hide. This isn't some big conspiracy like you want to make it out to be. The Congressman wants to give the family answers. I think they deserve those answers...just dont' know if they will like what they hear. Everything may not be painted picture perfect. And some of those answers they aren't going to get because of privacy issues. [/*]

I am still waiting to hear from the individual who was rewriting history on the myspace page. I did pointedly ask what gave them the power to change the words of a deceased individual, but nothing back yet. :(

I wonder if Maria's friend who spoke to the CNN reporter about her not feeling good enough and her struggles will ever speak out again.

JMO.:(

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Kel65
IIRC, Mary said that Maria had a problem with occasional compulsive lying.

This question keeps popping in the back of mind. How can someone have a problem with "occasional" compulsive lying? To me it seems that the words occasional and compulsive almost contradict each other. Doesn't compulsive mean that a person doesn't have control and their compulsion is habitual.

Just wondering and JMO. [/*]

That has never made any sense to me. It is opposites.

That is like saying a person is an alcoholic but only drinks now and then.

imoo

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Didn't it take him months just to write the MC? Does he have the authority to set a deadline of when they must reply?

imoo [/*]

I don't know but the last Ohio representative I saw telling his constituents he would have the matter taken care of and the FBI investigating never yielded anything.

Maybe this is a tactic to get votes and maybe the pressure was there from his supporters. We are always encouraged to write our congressman when we feel they could help and often he writes a letter. I don't know how much it really accomplishes.

JMO.

[strick10]

Originally posted by caejde


What will they get from that?? Not like he's made of money. [/*]

Pesos!

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by caejde


It's possible they have their answers. I doubt the Marine Corps will release the answers to the public. And I doubt they have anything to hide. This isn't some big conspiracy like you want to make it out to be. The Congressman wants to give the family answers. I think they deserve those answers...just dont' know if they will like what they hear. Everything may not be painted picture perfect. And some of those answers they aren't going to get because of privacy issues. [/*]

As of April 7th they have not answered the questions.


"The questions Turner, an Ohio Republican, sent to Conway include what steps were taken to protect Lauterbach after she accused Laurean of rape; why no search was launched immediately after she failed to report for duty; whether she requested a transfer to another base before her death; and whether Laurean was asked for a DNA sample after her pregnancy was confirmed."

"A Marine Corps spokesman told CNN the service would respond to all of the questions submitted through Turner and would not comment further until those answers were complete."

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/07/murdered.marine/index.html

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by Squawk Box



That's what I have been talking about. Read back to my posts. [/*]

Squawk, Regina talked about a wrongful death lawsuit against Laurean, for causing Maria's death. After he was captured, brought back to the U.S. and ordered to trial.

Then the discussion was "what would they get out of that?"

And your answer was "The MC is and they failed to protect Maria causing one of their own to murder her".

:confused:

How is a wrongful death suit against Cesar going to show the MC failed to protect Maria, and that this CAUSED Cesar to murder her?

I think you're dreaming.

[strick10]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


The MC is and they failed to protect Maria causing one of their own to murder her. jmo [/*]

The MC put the murder weapon in his hand and said "Marine murder her"? MC didn't cause anything to allow one of their own to murder her. Cesar is the prime person that is to be possibly blamed for her murder.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


Squawk, Regina talked about a wrongful death lawsuit against Laurean, for causing Maria's death. After he was captured, brought back to the U.S. and ordered to trial.

Then the discussion was "what would they get out of that?"

And your answer was "The MC is and they failed to protect Maria causing one of their own to murder her".

:confused:

How is a wrongful death suit against Cesar going to show the MC failed to protect Maria, and that this CAUSED Cesar to murder her?

I think you're dreaming. [/*]


I have been discussing the possible lawsuit by the Latderbach family against the MC. It will probably name Cesar, but actually it will be the MC and their failure to protect Maria.

I have no idea if that is what the Lauterbachs
will do. They do have a very good lawyer. Time will tell.

IMO

[scillak]

Originally posted by Kel65
IIRC, Mary said that Maria had a problem with occasional compulsive lying.

This question keeps popping in the back of mind. How can someone have a problem with "occasional" compulsive lying? To me it seems that the words occasional and compulsive almost contradict each other. Doesn't compulsive mean that a person doesn't have control and their compulsion is habitual.

Just wondering and JMO. [/*]

There's a lot of "ifs" in this answer, but it might be possible that if Maria was bi-polar, she actually might have tended to lie compulsively during certain phases of her up-down turmoil, and not lie like that all the time. Just a guess, mind you. I have a family member who is bi-polar and in his early thirties and finally seeking treatment. Sometimes to me it seems like he actually is several different people. Of course, not so drastic as multiple personality disorder, but his mood fluctuations almost make him seem that way. Looking back, he has probably suffered with this since back in teen years, but it's difficult to diagnose. And (big and here) it can be difficult to get someone to seek out and then cooperate with treatment.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by nelkirk


The MC is not made of money...it comes out of the taxpayer's pocket...

Are we to understand that you believe that because ML and CL disobeyed a direct order thus circumventing the MC's authority to protect them, that the MC is guilty of complicity in the murder of ML?

If you willfully circumvent an MPO put in place to prevent contact between you and the accused and then the accused allegedly murders you, the onus is on both you and the accused... [/*]

The biggest mistake the MC made was not transferring one to another base. JMO

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by nelkirk


The MC will answer his questions, but his questions are flawed from the getgo. [/*]

It is what it is and we shall see. :shrug:

[caejde]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


The biggest mistake the MC made was not transferring one to another base. JMO [/*]

They separated them. I don't see what difference it would have made if they put him on a different base.

Since you have all the answers and since you sound like you could have prevented this tragedy, maybe you should go work for NCIS or something.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by caejde


They separated them. I don't see what difference it would have made if they put him on a different base.

Since you have all the answers and since you sound like you could have prevented this tragedy, maybe you should go work for NCIS or something. [/*]


I believe it is obvious if she was on another base, she would be alive today. JMO

[CANDYKISSES]

Well she might be alive today if she had been screened for certain behavior disorders too. We just don't know. :o

JMO

[caejde]

Originally posted by Squawk Box



I believe it is obvious if she was on another base, she would be alive today. JMO [/*]

I don't see that but hey to each their own.

[Squawk Box]

There is no proof she had any behavior problems or was on any medication.

But it is obvious now the stellar marine did.:eek:

jmo

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by nelkirk


Rep Turner has a history of not researching things before he opens his mouth. [/*]

Kucinich was handling the last one I referred to and it was painfully obvious he didn't look into it before hand and he came away with his tail between his legs and did little to nothing.

I just don't believe the denial we are seeing here. Mary herself made so many statements that will attest to the integrity of her daughter and her claims. I've said it before and will again, tragically it reminds me of the child who cried wolf. Sad yes, but the idea that something bad was going to happen was not foreign.

JMO.

[caejde]

Originally posted by Squawk Box
There is no proof she had any behavior problems or was on any medication.

But it is obvious now the stellar marine did.

jmo [/*]

Where's the proof of him being on medication? And stellar only applied to his job performance...nothing else.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by caejde


Where's the proof of him being on medication? And stellar only applied to his job performance...nothing else. [/*]


Ahhhh the murder.:shrug: He is the one with behavior problems.

He should have been on medication if he wasn't.:o

jmo

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by caejde


Where's the proof of him being on medication? And stellar only applied to his job performance...nothing else. [/*]

Oh but that's all fixed now caejde. Nap time.

We know there are numerous references by the family concerning the possibility of a behavior disorder. But in the interest of rewriting history, none of that exists now for some posters here.

JMO.

"We suspect that she probably is BIPOLAR and she's had a lot of struggles through the years. She's been a real loner, hasn't had a lot of friends, but one thing is she's very attached to home and would call several times a day." spoken word of Mary Lauterbach.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHrHZgjx4Aw


jmo

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny


Here's the video of the PC where SB answers the question about Maria's car and his answer "she drove it there". It starts at @ 10:10. Just click on the link: Sheriff Brown Noon Press Conference 1/11/08 to access the video:

http://www.witntv.com/home/headlines/13678602.html [/*]

Thanks, Lynn....

[caejde]

Originally posted by Squawk Box



Ahhhh the murder.:shrug: He is the one with behavior problems.

He should have been on medication if he wasn't.:o

jmo [/*]

So every muderer needs medication?? Oh, that's right...he's a sociopath...sorry, I forgot.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by caejde


So every muderer needs medication?? Oh, that's right...he's a sociopath...sorry, I forgot. [/*]

No, he's a marine.

[caejde]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


No, he's a marine. [/*]

So please explain that he murdered, therefore he needs medicine....not every murderer has a mental illness.

[CANDYKISSES]

Bottom line is NCIS confirmed Maria was possibly facing a discharge, her mother confirmed the outrageous fabrication about the lamp, Mother said she was an occasional compulsive liar who lied when backed into a corner, and NCIS confirmed the inconsistent stories.

This was a recipe for disaster period IMO. :(

[Kel65]

I have an ex-family member who is a habitual liar, her adoptive mother (not blood relative) is a habitual liar too. So to me it seems that it can be a learned behavior.

Maybe Maria wasn't bi polar and just had a straight up lying problem?

I found this link interesting. It talks about compulsive liars. I found the information especially interesting in that it talks about how this lying often develops in early childhood due to being in an environment where lying was necessary.

http://www.truthaboutdeception.com/confront_a_liar/public/pathological-compulsive.html

It is not my intent to bash Maria. God bless her and her baby. Lying problem or not, they didn't deserve to be murdered. I am just trying to understand that if Maria wasn't bipolar, what led to her need to compulsively lie, as has been reported by her family and people who knew her, IIRC.

All JMO and pure speculation.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by caejde


So please explain that he murdered, therefore he needs medicine....not every murderer has a mental illness. [/*]

No and not every female marine who says she was raped has a mental illness either. jmo

[Regina.Lampert]

Originally posted by nelkirk


Anytime that you air your dirty laundry in public whether it is intentional or not, you are going to be on trial.

Even when you go to court and give testimony your going to be on trial.

It is the way the system and human nature works

It's called scrutiny [/*]

Her daughter was murdered, I don't call that "dirty laundry" by any stretch of the imagination. Furthermore, the Judge will be the final arbitor of what is relevant information in any trial. So you can stop salivating that Mary Lauterbach will be hurt by this trial. IMO

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES
Bottom line is NCIS confirmed Maria was possibly facing a discharge, her mother confirmed the outrageous fabrication about the lamp, Mother said she was an occasional compulsive liar who lied when backed into a corner, and NCIS confirmed the inconsistent stories.

This was a recipe for disaster period IMO. :( [/*]

Meeting Cesar turned out to be the recipe for disaster. imo

[caejde]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


No and not every female marine who says she was raped has a mental illness either. jmo [/*]

Please point me to where I have said that?

I am not a doctor so I can't diagnose. However, it was her mother that said they suspected she was bipolar...not me or anyone else. That can't be disputed. If she was suspected of having any type of mental illness, it should have been checked out. I will not say one way or another if she was/was not bipolar.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert


Her daughter was murdered, I don't call that "dirty laundry" by any stretch of the imagination. Furthermore, the Judge will be the final arbitor of what is relevant information in any trial. So you can stop salivating that Mary Lauterbach will be hurt by this trial. IMO [/*]

Well, that said it all.:D imo

[strick10]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


No, he's a marine. [/*]

So all Marines are sociopaths and murderers that need to be on meds,,,,,hmmmm.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by strick10


So all Marines are sociopaths and murderers that need to be on meds,,,,,hmmmm. [/*]

That is not what I said.

:chicken:

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by nelkirk


Finally, you admit it...He is a MARINE He earned the Title and He is still a Marine.

But IMO you meant that in a derogatory way, which just shows your bias in this discussion [/*]


Yes, I have a bias against rapist/murderers. Funny you don't seem to. jmo

[caejde]

Originally posted by nelkirk


Finally, you admit it...He is a MARINE He earned the Title and He is still a Marine.

But IMO you meant that in a derogatory way, which just shows your bias in this discussion [/*]

Yes, there is a bias here when it comes to the Marine Corps. I noticed that not long after I joined the board.

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by caejde


So please explain that he murdered, therefore he needs medicine....not every murderer has a mental illness. [/*]

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :cuss:

[strick10]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


That is not what I said.

:chicken: [/*]

Squawk Box
Member

Registered: Dec 2007
Location:
Posts: 290

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by caejde


So every muderer needs medication?? Oh, that's right...he's a sociopath...sorry, I forgot. [/*]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No, he's a marine.


Please clarify as I took the posts above to indicate such.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by strick10


Squawk Box
Member

Registered: Dec 2007
Location:
Posts: 290

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by caejde


So every muderer needs medication?? Oh, that's right...he's a sociopath...sorry, I forgot. [/*]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No, he's a marine.


Please clarify as I took the posts above to indicate such. [/*]

What are you asking me?

[caejde]

Originally posted by nelkirk


And maybe she did not think that at the time... [/*]

Who could have ever predicted that by meeting someone and having a relationship with them would eventually lead to their death? That is something that can't ever be predicted.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


Meeting Cesar turned out to be the recipe for disaster. imo [/*]

So you are blaming the Marine Corps for not stopping Maria from coming to Laurean's home?

How could they ever know she would do such a thing? And that wasn't even their jurisdiction. Not one thing happened on base in their jurisdiction between Maria and Cesar after the MPO was in place. Even OCSD couldn't have known she would come there even if she had gotten a civilian RO against Laurean.:shrug:

imo

[strick10]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


What are you asking me? [/*]

You're previous post to caedje led me to believe that you think that all Marines are sociopaths and murderers. You said that's not what you said. What is it what you were meaning to say.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


No, he's a marine. [/*]

What do you mean he is a Marine.

Do you have a problem or a bias against Marines?:confused:

imoo

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by strick10


You're previous post to caedje led me to believe that you think that all Marines are sociopaths and murderers. You said that's not what you said. What is it what you were meaning to say. [/*]

I was asked if Cesar was a sociopath and I said no he is a marine. That is all I said and all I meant.

I love our troops. Honorable, brave, dedicated young men and women who fight for us.

I really love them and cry every time I hear of another one losing their precious lives in Iraq. I want them back. I have more respect for them then you could ever imagine. I love the NG show because she is the only show that gives honorable mentions to a military hero at the end.

Cesar is a murderer. He will never get a pass from me for what he has done.



:patriot:

imo

[caejde]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


What do you mean he is a Marine.

Do you have a problem or a bias against Marines?:confused:

imoo [/*]

I'm beginning to think there are some that have a problem with the Marines...but that's just from what I've observed since I've been here.

[strick10]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


I was asked if Cesar was a sociopath and I said no he is a marine. That is all I said and all I meant.

I love our troops. Honorable, brave, dedicated young men and women who fight for us.

I really love them and cry every time I hear of another one losing their precious lives in Iraq. I want them back. I have more respect for them then you could ever imagine. I love the NG show because she is the only show that gives honorable mentions to a military hero at the end.

Cesar is a murderer. He will never get a pass from me for what he has done.



:patriot:

imo [/*]

Thanks for setting your previous post straight.

Cesar probably is the murderer and it's not right to blame anyone else other than the person whom committed the act. No one forced the killer to make that decision and commit that horrible act. IMO

[daniel green]

Originally posted by nelkirk


ITA

Lawsuits are all about compensation. You can only sue for compensation or to be blunt dollars and cents...money.

That is the only compensation that a court of law can give the plaintiff is in cash. The court has no jurisdiction to change something that is up to the legislative branch of the government.

The court wants to know to know how much money you want for the wrong dont to you...

As in wrongful death...

Hiring a well known attorney and getting your face and story in the media is all about PR.... [/*]

Yep.

It's all about money.

[daniel green]

Originally posted by nelkirk


That is just plain malarkey...

A lawsuit doesn't do anything but put money in the hands of the plaintiff and their attorney!

If you want to chage the system you have to go through the legislature...

Everyday children like Polly Klass and Adam Walsh are murdered and their parents didn't sue their killers or sue the system...THEY went to the public and the lehislature in order to enact laws that changed the system Adam Alerts and Amber Alerts save kids today because not because these parents went to court but bec ause they selflessly worked with the system for change. [/*]

Exactly, exactly, exactly.

[daniel green]

Originally posted by Squawk Box



Well, the MC can just keep paying out lawsuit judgments or change their own procedures. It's up to them.:shrug: [/*]

As if those were the options.:rolleyes:

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by nelkirk


I am not in the least upset...

And No I do not need meds, but I do question your qualifications to not only diagnose someone without ever having physically observed their behavior...and without a diagnosis you said he needed meds.

And trying someone inthe court of public opinion is the first step in a mistrial.. [/*]

I've never seen you post this to the poster who is constantly diagnosing Maria as bipolar of all things.

I have opinions. I don't need a medical license for opinions. Just like the poster I just referenced.

Have a nice day.

jmo

[daniel green]

Originally posted by nelkirk


Big settlements do NOT change the system, they just transfer money into the pockets of attorneys. This is especially true of the government.

The MC gets it's money from the DOD which gets it's money from the government coffers, which gets it's money from bills passed by Congress that money will come right from the TAXPAYER... [/*]

Amen.

[marinewife5]

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Feres+Doctrine

"The doctrine did apply, however, to a suit involving the death of a soldier who was off the military base on authorized leave when he was kidnapped and murdered by a fellow soldier with a known history of violence (Shearer). The mother of the murdered soldier charged that the Army had been negligent in failing to warn the other soldiers that the murderer was dangerous and in failing to restrict the murderer's movements while his discharge was being processed. The Supreme Court denied her claim under the Feres doctrine on the ground that the suit would require a civilian court to second-guess military decisions that are directly involved in the management of the armed forces. If such suits were allowed, "commanding officers would have to stand prepared to convince a civilian court of the wisdom of a wide range of military and disciplinary decisions." As a result, military discipline would suffer the detrimental effects that the Feres doctrine was designed to prevent."

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by nelkirk
Just to make a point:

I was a part of over 5000 women who were part of a class action suit in the 80s and when we finally proved our case qnd received our checks for compensation for pain and suffering, I sat down and cried because there isn't enough money in the world to compensated a mother for the loss of their son or daughter. For years I kept that money in a bank accoutn and refused to touch it. Then one day I realized that I needed to take the money and use it to help someonelse's child...so I put the their child through school.

A lawsuit does not help you get through the grievng process. [/*]

Kudos to you Nel. I wouldn't wish anyone to be in that position.

What an inspiring thing for you to do with your grief and pain. It made someone's child have an easier road and I'll bet they were grateful too.

JMO.

[daniel green]

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert


I think once laurean is captured and returned to the US, the family can initiate a wrongful death suit against him. But, more then likely that will be done after the trial. IMO. [/*]

And that would be even stupider than threatening to file a lawsuit against the marines. IMO

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by nelkirk
Just to make a point:

I was a one of over 5000 women who were part of a class action suit in the 80s and when we finally proved our case qnd received our checks for compensation for pain and suffering, I sat down and cried because there isn't enough money in the world to compensated a mother for the loss of their son or daughter. For years I kept that money in a bank accoutn and refused to touch it. Then one day I realized that I needed to take the money and use it to help someonelse's child...so I put the their child through school.

A lawsuit does not help you get through the grievng process. [/*]


OMG So that is how you know about civil suits.
May God bless you.
:rose:

[daniel green]

Originally posted by nelkirk


100% of $0.00 = $0.00 [/*]

Actually, it would be -+/-200K for attys.

[daniel green]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


The MC is and they failed to protect Maria causing one of their own to murder her. jmo [/*]

Oh please.

The marines did not cause anyone to murder anyone.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by nelkirk


There is a difference between labeling someone without any evidence and discussing something that is supported by what her family has stated.

CL is allegedly a murderer but he has not been charged with rape. So it is premature to be labeling him as such. [/*]

Amazing isn't it? There are numerous links and I have never diagnosed Maria, for all we know she went to her grave with no diagnosis even tho the People article says otherwise courtesy of Uncle Peter.

The renewed attacks against the USMC fueled by the CNN article and a few posters who are looking for someone else to take responsibility is amazing even including the breaks in TOS suggesting you need medication. Unbelievable.

It is no wonder more and more people are very dismayed by the inclination of some to have a defendant prove their innocence as opposed to the way it should be.

JMOOC. :(

1/28/08 People Magazine article, only pages 1, 3 and 4 as page 2 is a photo with no written words.

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/...plemagPage1.jpg

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/...pleMagPage3.jpg

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/...pleMagPage4.jpg

[daniel green]

Originally posted by Squawk Box



I believe it is obvious if she was on another base, she would be alive today. JMO [/*]

Actually, had she not gone to his house, she might be alive today.

If she were in Mars she would be alive today.

If she'd been in Pakistan, she might be alive today.

Sheesh.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by marinewife5
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Feres+Doctrine

"The doctrine did apply, however, to a suit involving the death of a soldier who was off the military base on authorized leave when he was kidnapped and murdered by a fellow soldier with a known history of violence (Shearer). The mother of the murdered soldier charged that the Army had been negligent in failing to warn the other soldiers that the murderer was dangerous and in failing to restrict the murderer's movements while his discharge was being processed. The Supreme Court denied her claim under the Feres doctrine on the ground that the suit would require a civilian court to second-guess military decisions that are directly involved in the management of the armed forces. If such suits were allowed, "commanding officers would have to stand prepared to convince a civilian court of the wisdom of a wide range of military and disciplinary decisions." As a result, military discipline would suffer the detrimental effects that the Feres doctrine was designed to prevent." [/*]

Thanks for that gentle reminder MW. Have you put that in the links thread by chance?

[daniel green]

Originally posted by Squawk Box
There is no proof she had any behavior problems or was on any medication.

But it is obvious now the stellar marine did.:eek:

jmo [/*]

He had behavior problems and/or was on medication?

Link?

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


Thanks for that gentle reminder MW. Have you put that in the links thread by chance? [/*]

nope, i'll do it now.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by daniel green


Actually, had she not gone to his house, she might be alive today.

If she were in Mars she would be alive today.

If she'd been in Pakistan, she might be alive today.

Sheesh. [/*]

I think we are entering the theatre of the absurd if we think people can be moved from base to base when someone turns in an allegation a month later and has two incidents and one is consensual and one maybe/maybe not. After what I've seen here, we would be playing musical chairs with our military and I think there should be STEADFAST EVIDENCE before anything like this is considered IMO.

Another thing, we had a survivor here posting a year or so ago where her ex flew across the states to try and kill her husband and was back by morning on a return flight.

When an evil mind is working miles don't matter. Maria made an accusation and her stories were inconsistent according to the USMC and her own words allegedly as stated at the PC.

Her history showed a penchant for lying and apparently she had some UA's before this. With a note left, I don't see anything the USMC should have done differently at this time. We are still not sure what kind of discharge she may have been facing but I think the Congressman's letter gives you a clue.

JMO.:shrug:

[daniel green]

Originally posted by caejde


I'm beginning to think there are some that have a problem with the Marines...but that's just from what I've observed since I've been here. [/*]

I think it is some archaic or Harlequin Romance men vs women thing myself.

[daniel green]

Originally posted by nelkirk


Show me where CL has been found guilty of being either of those... [/*]

Guilty? Heck, he was not even charged with rape.

[daniel green]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


I think we are entering the theatre of the absurd if we think people can be moved from base to base when someone turns in an allegation a month later and has two incidents and one is consensual and one maybe/maybe not.


When an evil mind is working miles don't matter. Maria made an accusation and her stories were inconsistent according to the USMC and her own words allegedly as stated at the PC.

Her history showed a penchant for lying and apparently she had some UA's before this. With a note left, I don't see anything the USMC should have done differently at this time.

snipped [/*]

Ditto all.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by daniel green


Guilty? Heck, he was not even charged with rape. [/*]

It does not stop some from calling him a rapist as tho it were fact and then slapping a jmo in for good measure well after the structured sentence of FACT.

There isn't a sole here who doesn't recognize the act as we know it was heinous and Maria should still be alive and permitted to make her own decisions regarding her child from my POV.

The need to somehow worsen the crime or make the person who may be responsible into something we should have seen as a monster labeled with killer on the forehead is unnecessary IMO.

Strictly IMO this crime speaks of heated passion and anger at that moment. The things done after are reprehensible and difficult to process for me.

Do I think that makes him a sociopath? I don't know.

Do I think he had a behavior disorder/mental illness? I don't know.

Do I think he killed her? I don't know, looking that way, but too unresolved in the timeline for me.

Do I think he had help? Yes, I do and I believe if not help the MRS. could have struck out in anger and committed the act.

Do I think he used the card and buried and tried to CHA with the bonfire over her? Yes I do, but again, the pic from the ATM is not conclusive IMO.

I want to see justice for the death of Maria and her unborn child and that's all I think we can hope for at this time.

I feel bad for her family, but am very disappointed in their actions and the many attempts to rewrite history to fit something they need to see. Maybe what they need to see doesn't match up to the way it was and it would be more healthy to get to the heart of the matter IMO. I will never get past what a professional did to those girls by putting the circumstances of their early years out there for public consumption. Remember, one girl has to live with that forever and I'm sure it's painful. That really had nothing to do with any of this IMO and was nothing more than self-serving. If Maria's friend interviewed by CNN was correct about how Maria felt, then my heart goes out to Anne right now and I pray she will make wise choices in the future and that she has a full life with good memories shared with her sister.

ALL JMO.:patriot:

[Pag Boi]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


I think we are entering the theatre of the absurd
You rang? :biggrin: Good post CK!


if we think people can be moved from base to base when someone turns in an allegation a month later and has two incidents and one is consensual and one maybe/maybe not. After what I've seen here, we would be playing musical chairs with our military and I think there should be STEADFAST EVIDENCE before anything like this is considered IMO.

At face vaule, it seems simple enough. Perhaps expected on a a board that specializes court trials on tv. But then that darn music starts back.... and I start seeing chairs & goalposts move [My script always ends w/ exit theatre stage left

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by nelkirk


If they had just obeyed the tenets of the MPO and not been in contact she would be alive today.. [/*]

I think they only saw each other once and that was the day she died. She never thought he was crazy enough to kill her. A mistake a young girl made. So sad.

imo

[Pag Boi]

Originally posted by nelkirk
It's not what I believe it is what I can prove using the evidential facts of the case. [/*]

:beer:

I think this post should be a sticky on ervery forum here.

[Howiefan]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


:patriot:

IMOO, Maria was not Marine Corps material. If what we have learned is the truth and I believe it is, she was not ready for such a hard structured, disciplined and sometimes lonely life. To only be in the Corps for less than two years and already had to be given counseling for the outlandish lie she told about her little brother being killed to being UA on more than one occasion shows imo her family should have urged her to try to get out of the Corps or not join in the first place. IMO Maria just was not adapting.

Maybe Uncle Peter is right and Maria was bi-polar and the Corps failed to diagnose her with it. She very well could have used that as a reason to leave the Corps if she divulge that information and they ran diagnostic testings proving it was indeed true. Maybe this is one of the reasons that Mary said that Maria had struggled for many years before she even joined the MC. Surely they got her help back then I would think but it seems they didn't because Mary never mentioned they saw to it that she got help with her struggles.

I do agree with you Candy. Maria had problems way before she went to the Marine Corps and I think the stress of military life only exacerbated them.

imoo [/*]

well then if this is the case I do not understand that you don't see the Marines responsible for to a point of what happened to here... Do they just take anyone . If she was not Marine corps material she should not have been hired/allowed to join... bottom line

imo

[Howiefan]

Originally posted by daniel green


Actually, had she not gone to his house, she might be alive today.

If she were in Mars she would be alive today.

If she'd been in Pakistan, she might be alive today.

Sheesh. [/*]
sorry daniel green.. but I am skimming through posts for lack of time to you have a direct link that says that she went to his house that day other than SB saying that..and I do think if it is this statement alone he was speculating.
jmo

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by caejde


I'm beginning to think there are some that have a problem with the Marines...but that's just from what I've observed since I've been here. [/*]


I don't have a problem with the Marines. Why would I? What have they done to me? I love our troops.

What I have a problem with is how this case was handled by some who happen to be Marines. There are good and bad in every organization. There are mistakes made in any organization because the people are human beings.

I believe Maria was raped and some in the MC dropped the ball.

JMO

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by Howiefan


well then if this is the case I do not understand that you don't see the Marines responsible for to a point of what happened to here... Do they just take anyone . If she was not Marine corps material she should not have been hired/allowed to join... bottom line

imo [/*]

Howie, with all due respect, I think you might be shocked at the people who MIGHT suffer something like BIPOLAR and how they present as a norm. JMO and not confirming what Mary and Peter thought or suspected.

But I have seen many people pre-diagnosis and post-diagnosis who wouldn't instantly signal trouble.

That could be whey Mary said "They suspected" absent a diagnosis or evaluation.

JMO tho.

[Pag Boi]

Originally posted by daniel green


And that would be even stupider than threatening to file a lawsuit against the marines. IMO [/*]

LOL Is stupidity against the law? We have become such a litigious society. No personal liability it seems for the plaintiff. It is always someone else's fault :cuss: I wsh the courts would be more discerning about what is acceptable subject matter.

Doesn't NC have statutes about contributory negligence? If they still exist, doesn't seem to matter to "peers." Just based on lawsuits I have followed in the last few years. MOO

If ML's family were to file a claim, it won't be pretty. Given [what I perceive as] their DISDAIN for facts about ML.

[Regina.Lampert]

Originally posted by nelkirk


RED LIGHT You have just violated the rules of discussion...

Personal attacks are not allowed in a disussion...You may thinnk it but you are not allowed to type it...

And if you would please climb down off you high horse:

Did I mention Mary Lauterbach in my post?

No I did not..I said YOU referring to anyone who goes to court or for that mater goes before the public [/*]

I'll respond this way:

That is what you implied

So are we now seeing a CYA mode :D

[Squawk Box]

quote:Originally posted by GentleBreeze


IMOO, Maria was not Marine Corps material. If what we have learned is the truth and I believe it is, she was not ready for such a hard structured, disciplined and sometimes lonely life. To only be in the Corps for less than two years and already had to be given counseling for the outlandish lie she told about her little brother being killed to being UA on more than one occasion shows imo her family should have urged her to try to get out of the Corps or not join in the first place. IMO Maria just was not adapting.

Maybe Uncle Peter is right and Maria was bi-polar and the Corps failed to diagnose her with it. She very well could have used that as a reason to leave the Corps if she divulge that information and they ran diagnostic testings proving it was indeed true. Maybe this is one of the reasons that Mary said that Maria had struggled for many years before she even joined the MC. Surely they got her help back then I would think but it seems they didn't because Mary never mentioned they saw to it that she got help with her struggles.

I do agree with you Candy. Maria had problems way before she went to the Marine Corps and I think the stress of military life only exacerbated them.

----------------------------------------------

Well, what do you think of Cesar as Marine Corp material?

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Howiefan


well then if this is the case I do not understand that you don't see the Marines responsible for to a point of what happened to here... Do they just take anyone . If she was not Marine corps material she should not have been hired/allowed to join... bottom line

imo [/*]

Those thing accumalated while she was already in the Marine Corps.

The lie about her father killing her little brother happened after boot camp. She was already enlisted in the Marines for months. The MC tried to help her by giving her counseling.

I do not know when the UAs happened during her time in the Corps.

We also do not know the reason or reasons it was mentioned that she was facing possible discharge. It may have been an accumalation of things over the year and a half she had been a Marine.

I am sure Maria nor her family told the recuriter about Maria 's stuggles for years before enlisting in the Corps.

imoo

[Pag Boi]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


Howie, with all due respect, I think you might be shocked at the people who MIGHT suffer something like BIPOLAR and how they present as a norm. JMO and not confirming what Mary and Peter thought or suspected.

But I have seen many people pre-diagnosis and post-diagnosis who wouldn't instantly signal trouble.

That could be whey Mary said "They suspected" absent a diagnosis or evaluation.

JMO tho. [/*]

ITA.

Why single out the Marine Corps? There are mentally ill people in every walk of life... Doctor, Lawyer, Rabbi, Police Chief. Some are highly functional until iit escalates..to some irrational action(s) when some senseless, tragic ending.

How many cases have you read that start out "I am shocked. We never saw it coming...He was an eagle scout, 2 sport star, science fair winner, prom king and Walt Disney buff." Then a few weeks later, you are blown away by all the red flags that no one "saw coming":rolleyes: Including the family - if they survived

All MOO

Of course I consider myself perfectly normal and sane. Medical experts just diplomatically call it unfortunate genetics. say drugs won't help. boohoo

[strick10]

Originally posted by Squawk Box



I don't have a problem with the Marines. Why would I? What have they done to me? I love our troops.

What I have a problem with is how this case was handled by some who happen to be Marines. There are good and bad in every organization. There are mistakes made in any organization because the people are human beings.

I believe Maria was raped and some in the MC dropped the ball.

JMO [/*]

You're post is much better worded/stated IMO. The way you're previous posts were worded gave me the impression that you were blaming the entire Corps and to that I take offense. I now understand that you believe there were mistakes by people withing the MC ranks and NCIS that were involved in the case. I'm not agreeing but I respect your position now that you've stated such.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by strick10


You're post is much better worded/stated IMO. The way you're previous posts were worded gave me the impression that you were blaming the entire Corps and to that I take offense. I now understand that you believe there were mistakes by people withing the MC ranks and NCIS that were involved in the case. I'm not agreeing but I respect your position now that you've stated such. [/*]

TY strick. I'm sorry I was giving the wrong impression but I went back and was reading myself and I see what you mean. :rose:

:patriot:

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Squawk Box
quote:Originally posted by GentleBreeze


IMOO, Maria was not Marine Corps material. If what we have learned is the truth and I believe it is, she was not ready for such a hard structured, disciplined and sometimes lonely life. To only be in the Corps for less than two years and already had to be given counseling for the outlandish lie she told about her little brother being killed to being UA on more than one occasion shows imo her family should have urged her to try to get out of the Corps or not join in the first place. IMO Maria just was not adapting.

Maybe Uncle Peter is right and Maria was bi-polar and the Corps failed to diagnose her with it. She very well could have used that as a reason to leave the Corps if she divulge that information and they ran diagnostic testings proving it was indeed true. Maybe this is one of the reasons that Mary said that Maria had struggled for many years before she even joined the MC. Surely they got her help back then I would think but it seems they didn't because Mary never mentioned they saw to it that she got help with her struggles.

I do agree with you Candy. Maria had problems way before she went to the Marine Corps and I think the stress of military life only exacerbated them.

----------------------------------------------

Well, what do you think of Cesar as Marine Corp material? [/*]

I do think at the time he was very much Marine material...now he is just a disgrace, possible murderer and deserter.

Being a stellar Marine however has nothing to do with his personal character but how well he preformed his duties as a Marine.

I don't think he would have been considered stellar nor would he have been awarded the good cookie medal if he had UAs in his record. So I would say he was most likely very punctual and on duty when expected.

Since he was meritoriously promoted he must have done an exemplary job. I think he took his job as a US Marine seriously and that is why he was in ROTC in high school preparing for the day he enlisted to become a Marine.

What happened that made Maria leave the Corps after wanting to be a Marine, we may never know just like we may never know why Laurean did what he did and wound up becoming a fugitive on the run.

imoo

[daniel green]

Originally posted by Pag Boi


LOL Is stupidity against the law?

snipped. [/*]

Sigh.

Unfortunately, no.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I do think at the time he was very much Marine material...now he is just a disgrace, possible murderer and deserter.

Being a stellar Marine however has nothing to do with his personal character but how well he preformed his duties as a Marine.

I don't think he would have been considered stellar nor would he have been awarded the good cookie medal if he had UAs in his record. So I would say he was most likely very punctual and on duty when expected.

Since he was meritoriously promoted he must have done an exemplary job. I think he took his job as a US Marine seriously and that is why he was in ROTC in high school preparing for the day he enlisted to become a Marine.

What happened that made Maria leave the Corps after wanting to be a Marine, we may never know just like we may never know why Laurean did what he did and wound up becoming a fugitive on the run.

imoo [/*]

I think Cesar had a temper problem. Probably from pretty young on up. I think people in the Marines saw flashes of that temper. I think it was mostly over looked because he is a macho man. That out burst that killed Maria and her baby was not the first time his temper came out. I believe at some point Christina will attest to that.

I believe Maria was very much Marine material. I see no reason to think she wasn't. Her life went crashing downward the day she was assigned to work with Cesar.

JMO

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


I think Cesar had a temper problem. Probably from pretty young on up. I think people in the Marines saw flashes of that temper. I think it was mostly overlooked because he is a macho man. That out burst that killed Maria and her baby was not the first time his temper came out.

I believe Maria was very much Marine material. I see no reason to think she wasn't.

JMO [/*]

From what we have heard in the media that is not true. They said he was very friendly and well liked by his co-workers. He did not seem to be a loner but had the ability to socialize with those he worked with and from what SB said the man that had gone with him to Lowes had been a close friend for a long time.

There has not been one person that said he had a temper. Who said that in case I missed it somehow?

I think Maria needed psychiatric help. She was already having problems.

imoo

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I do think at the time he was very much Marine material...now he is just a disgrace, possible murderer and deserter.

Being a stellar Marine however has nothing to do with his personal character but how well he preformed his duties as a Marine.

I don't think he would have been considered stellar nor would he have been awarded the good cookie medal if he had UAs in his record. So I would say he was most likely very punctual and on duty when expected.

Since he was meritoriously promoted he must have done an exemplary job. I think he took his job as a US Marine seriously and that is why he was in ROTC in high school preparing for the day he enlisted to become a Marine.

What happened that made Maria leave the Corps after wanting to be a Marine, we may never know just like we may never know why Laurean did what he did and wound up becoming a fugitive on the run.

imoo [/*]

Very well stated GB. I'm surprised given that Maria went to the VoTech, that she wasn't in ROTC.

I guess there are many things we will never know but I am still hopeful that when he's finally captured, he will realize the importance of getting the truth out once and for all especially if he is caught in the USA and his life is on the line.

ALL JMO. :(

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


Howie, with all due respect, I think you might be shocked at the people who MIGHT suffer something like BIPOLAR and how they present as a norm. JMO and not confirming what Mary and Peter thought or suspected.

But I have seen many people pre-diagnosis and post-diagnosis who wouldn't instantly signal trouble.

That could be whey Mary said "They suspected" absent a diagnosis or evaluation.

JMO tho. [/*]

You have seen many people pre-diagnosis and post-diagnosis? Could you elaborate?

[CANDYKISSES]

We can't forget that Maria even told her mother he was very popular which was an odd choice when describing someone you are alleging raped you, but nonetheless, she thought that way.

I truly wish Mary and Peter had followed up on their suspicions with an evaluation to confirm or dismiss. But just as the resistance here at the thought of it, we have to face it still has a stigma and people live in fear of being medicated for fear it will stand between them and a career choice IMHO.

JMO. :shrug:

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


From what we have heard in the media that is not true. They said he was very friendly and well liked by his co-workers. He did not seem to be a loner but had the ability to socialize with those he worked with and from what SB said the man that had gone with him to Lowes had been a close friend for a long time.

There has not been one person that said he had a temper. Who said that in case I missed it somehow?

I think Maria needed psychiatric help. She was already having problems.

imoo [/*]

It is my opinion he must have had a temper to kill Maria and her baby like he did. I don't think a murderous temper he can't control comes from no where.

I don't believe Maria needed psychiatric help since there is no proof of that. What problems was she always having?

jmo

[martha]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


Howie, with all due respect, I think you might be shocked at the people who MIGHT suffer something like BIPOLAR and how they present as a norm. JMO and not confirming what Mary and Peter thought or suspected.

But I have seen many people pre-diagnosis and post-diagnosis who wouldn't instantly signal trouble.

That could be whey Mary said "They suspected" absent a diagnosis or evaluation.

JMO tho. [/*] ITA MY DAUGHTER IN LAW WAS 48 YEARS OLD AND HAD BEEN TO DOC ALL HER LIFE BEFORE THEY SAID SHE WAS BIPOLAR just saying people can have it and you would never know it. we sure did not know she had it.

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by Pag Boi

You rang? :biggrin: Good post CK!




At face vaule, it seems simple enough. Perhaps expected on a a board that specializes court trials on tv. But then that darn music starts back.... and I start seeing chairs & goalposts move [My script always ends w/ exit theatre stage left [/*]

That you annie? :D Font looks familiar.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


Very well stated GB. I'm surprised given that Maria went to the VoTech, that she wasn't in ROTC.

I guess there are many things we will never know but I am still hopeful that when he's finally captured, he will realize the importance of getting the truth out once and for all especially if he is caught in the USA and his life is on the line.

ALL JMO. :( [/*]

I think you have to keep a certain grade average to remain in ROTC.

Remember Maria's cousin's comments on a blog that we had linked at one time? I found his entire writing upsetting and very strange.

I thought if I had to read him say, how Maria wasn't smart, one more time I was going to heave. He just kept repeating and stressing that point and I thought that had to be said to Maria at times by some of her family members. That had to make her feel so inadequate. They probably told her she wasn't college material so the MC was the best route to go.

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by martha
ITA MY DAUGHTER IN LAW WAS 48 YEARS OLD AND HAD BEEN TO DOC ALL HER LIFE BEFORE THEY SAID SHE WAS BIPOLAR just saying people can have it and you would never know it. we sure did not know she had it. [/*]

I am sure Maria nor the family breathed a word to the Corps, Martha. Maria wanted to be a Marine.

For you and your daughter!:rose:

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


From what we have heard in the media that is not true. They said he was very friendly and well liked by his co-workers. He did not seem to be a loner but had the ability to socialize with those he worked with and from what SB said the man that had gone with him to Lowes had been a close friend for a long time.

There has not been one person that said he had a temper. Who said that in case I missed it somehow?

I think Maria needed psychiatric help. She was already having problems.

imoo [/*]

Wonderful post, GB, and right in line from all we know thus far.

I think it is easy for some to believe Cesar murdered Maria in a very heinous way and thus project onto him all sorts of personality attributes that may or may not be correct. We know he was a "stellar" Marine as far as his performance on the job, and other people have said he was very well liked.

He snapped, IMO. People do that. Even people who do NOT have personality problems, or are sociopaths, or have weird personality disorders. It's just fact. We can't say that "because" he probably murdered Maria he is this, that and the other bad qualities. Sad to say, but no.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


It is my opinion he must have had a temper to kill Maria and her baby like he did. I don't think a murderous temper he can't control comes from no where.

I don't believe Maria needed psychiatric help since there is no proof of that. What problems was she always having?

jmo [/*]

That could be the first time that he had an outburst.

Well it is no different Squawk.........it hasn't been proven that he ever exhibited a temper either. It hasn't even been proven that he did this.

IMO she did have a major problem. Even her own mother said she had credibility issues and it seems she could not adhere to the rules and had UAs. Even her psychiatrist uncle said Maria was bipolar which shows why she could not conform to expectations.

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


Wonderful post, GB, and right in line from all we know thus far.

I think it is easy for some to believe Cesar murdered Maria in a very heinous way and thus project onto him all sorts of personality attributes that may or may not be correct. We know he was a "stellar" Marine as far as his performance on the job, and other people have said he was very well liked.

He snapped, IMO. People do that. Even people who do NOT have personality problems, or are sociopaths, or have weird personality disorders. It's just fact. We can't say that "because" he probably murdered Maria he is this, that and the other bad qualities. Sad to say, but no. [/*]

That is true Savannah.

Sometimes emotions we may have buried deep within erupt out of the blue..........we may do things at that time we wouldn't dare do normally.

I have never seen this case as a premeditated first degree but more of a 2nd degree, crime of passion case.

imoo:seeya:

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I think you have to keep a certain grade average to remain in ROTC.

Remember Maria's cousin's comments on a blog that we had linked at one time? I found his entire writing upsetting and very strange.

I thought if I had to read him say, how Maria wasn't smart, one more time I was going to heave. He just kept repeating and stressing that point and I thought that had to be said to Maria at times by some of her family members. That had to make her feel so inadequate. They probably told her she wasn't college material so the MC was the best route to go.

imoo [/*]

You found his blog was worse then what you read here? Things are reported here over and over again about Maria. Seems like a broken record most of the time.:D jk

I don't think Maria was to dumb for ROTC. I think she was into her sports activities. She had talent in that area.

Anyway, we don't have her GPA so...........

Who said Maria felt inadequate?

jmo

[daniel green]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


I think Cesar had a temper problem. Probably from pretty young on up. I think people in the Marines saw flashes of that temper. I think it was mostly over looked because he is a macho man. That out burst that killed Maria and her baby was not the first time his temper came out. I believe at some point Christina will attest to that.

snipped [/*]

And these opinions come from what???? :confused: Particularly the Macho Man one.

TIA

[daniel green]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


snipped

He snapped, IMO. People do that. Even people who do NOT have personality problems, or are sociopaths, or have weird personality disorders. It's just fact. We can't say that "because" he probably murdered Maria he is this, that and the other bad qualities. Sad to say, but no. [/*]

Yep. You are so right. Again.

One cannot back into a Dx that way. That's kinda like saying, for instance, that we know a person vomited, therefore the person must have bulimia. Know what I mean?

May I mention again how this is exactly the malady that comes from watching the likes of Robbie Ludwig and Nancy Grace? :(

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by daniel green


And these opinions come from what???? :confused: Particularly the Macho Man one.

TIA [/*]

:confused:

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by daniel green


Yep. You are so right. Again.

One cannot back into a Dx that way. That's kinda like saying, for instance, that we know a person vomited, therefore the person must have bulimia. Know what I mean?

May I mention again how this is exactly the malady that comes from watching the likes of Robbie Ludwig and Nancy Grace? :( [/*]

Maybe he'll plead temporary insanity. :shrug:

[daniel green]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


:confused: [/*]

Lemme try again.

What makes you say he had a temper problem since he was a child?

What makes you say he was seen as a "Macho Man?"

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by daniel green


Lemme try again.

What makes you say he had a temper problem since he was a child?

What makes you say he was seen as a "Macho Man?" [/*]

I said it was my opinion. It comes from the same place your opinions come from.:o

[daniel green]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


I said it was my opinion. It comes from the same place your opinions come from.:o [/*]

I doubt that.

So I take it you don't know what caused you to form those opinions? OK.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


You found his blog was worse then what you read here? Things are reported here over and over again about Maria. Seems like a broken record most of the time.:D jk

I don't think Maria was to dumb for ROTC. I think she was into her sports activities. She had talent in that area.

Anyway, we don't have her GPA so...........

Who said Maria felt inadequate?

jmo [/*]

For gosh sakes...........he is HER family not some strangers on a message board. He talked about her as if she was dumb and the only thing she was capable of doing was sports.:rolleyes:

I found it offensive.........if you did not.........then so be it.

imoo

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by daniel green


I doubt that.

So I take it you don't know what caused you to form those opinions? OK. [/*]

Read my post again. It's there.

Stop baiting.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


For gosh sakes...........he is HER family not some strangers on a message board. He talked about her as if she was dumb and the only thing she was capable of doing was sports.:rolleyes:

I found it offensive.........if you did not.........then so be it.

imoo [/*]

Who hadn't seen her in years. I discounted everything he had to say.

jmo

[Squawk Box]

Good nite.:seeya:

[sunstar]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I do think at the time he was very much Marine material...now he is just a disgrace, possible murderer and deserter.

Being a stellar Marine however has nothing to do with his personal character but how well he preformed his duties as a Marine.

I don't think he would have been considered stellar nor would he have been awarded the good cookie medal if he had UAs in his record. So I would say he was most likely very punctual and on duty when expected.

Since he was meritoriously promoted he must have done an exemplary job. I think he took his job as a US Marine seriously and that is why he was in ROTC in high school preparing for the day he enlisted to become a Marine.

What happened that made Maria leave the Corps after wanting to be a Marine, we may never know just like we may never know why Laurean did what he did and wound up becoming a fugitive on the run.

imoo [/*]
Good evening :seeya: and I must say this is a very good assessment of him from what we know, imo, and you're right, his performance as a Marine can be completely different from his personal character. I just hope someday we will know the truth what happened the evening of Dec. 14 that led Maria over to his house and what triggered the violent murder that took place in his garage.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by sunstar

Good evening :seeya: and I must say this is a very good assessment of him from what we know, imo, and you're right, his performance as a Marine can be completely different from his personal character. I just hope someday we will know the truth what happened the evening of Dec. 14 that led Maria over to his house and what triggered the violent murder that took place in his garage. [/*]

Hi Sun!

Yes, I hope he comes back and decides it is best to tell all he knows.

imoo:seeya:

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Squawk Box
Good nite.:seeya: [/*]

Good night.....see you tomorrow!:seeya:

[nuttintodo]

Evening folks!

Have I missed anything out of the ordinary today?

:seeya:

[sunstar]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES
We can't forget that Maria even told her mother he was very popular which was an odd choice when describing someone you are alleging raped you, but nonetheless, she thought that way.



JMO. :shrug: [/*]
I agree that description doesn't really make sense, unless it was in the context of "he's so popular the Marines won't do anything to him". MOO

[sunstar]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Hi Sun!

Yes, I hope he comes back and decides it is best to tell all he knows.

imoo:seeya: [/*]
Me too ~ so much is missing! I've been watching that series on TruTV called "Murder by the Book" and thinking that this case sure would be good material for someone to write about with all its twists and turns. :)

[sunstar]

Originally posted by nuttintodo
Evening folks!

Have I missed anything out of the ordinary today?

:seeya: [/*]
Hi nuttin :seeya: I just got here myself, hoping for some news from the tips AMW got over the weekend. It doesn't seem anything's happened though.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by nuttintodo
Evening folks!

Have I missed anything out of the ordinary today?

:seeya: [/*]

Well hi Nuttin!

Nope..........no news.

I had hoped the tips may spark something but so far nothing seems to be happening or that we know of anyway.

imoo:seeya:

[nuttintodo]

Nothing happening around here as far as the AMW tips are concerned.

Mainly it's been the 8th grader who assaulted another student on the bus....

We have Carolyn Futrell's trial (7 yr old Kayla Allen posioning death by her legal guardian), jury selection was this morning and then testimony started.

That's all the happenings in Jacksonville.

http://www.jdnews.com

I'm hoping no news is good news....

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by martha
ITA MY DAUGHTER IN LAW WAS 48 YEARS OLD AND HAD BEEN TO DOC ALL HER LIFE BEFORE THEY SAID SHE WAS BIPOLAR just saying people can have it and you would never know it. we sure did not know she had it. [/*]

No doubt Martha. I know the young couple who just had a baby here this week are battling it with the mother of the baby. She wasn't diagnosed until she told a whopper in HS as a senior and the police came out to see the family about the story. That actually was what sent them to get help.

Her mom said she thought something was amiss from time to time, but didn't think it was something as severe as bipolar and hated to force her to see a psychiatrist. She is a lovable young woman, no question, but she needed help and it took the school and LE to make it happen in the long run.

Pre-pregnancy she was medicated and doing better. Then they took her off the medication for the duration of the pregnancy once they confirmed it and now are getting her ready to go back on.

ALL JMO. :(

[martha]

you or so right candykisses. My DIL was going to a pshchiatrist and had been going to him a long time before he ever said she was bypoliar. he had given her all kind of meds. some he should not have been given her i found out later as i was reading on this.but tell woppers or a sure thing with bipolar. I don;t think ml should have been in the mc. from what i have been reading here it sounds like she was in there for all the wrong reasons. just guessing tho. i pray that anyone that has someone they love that is bipolar will get them some help. it is a bad bad bad thing.the depression is so bad with it too.:rose:

[gaelicpeas]

I don't want to open a can of worms... but there is not, as of now, a "test" to assess bipolar disorder:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23337532/

"Currently, bipolar disorder and other conditions such as depression are diagnosed based on the patient's description of their symptoms and the physician's judgment, sometimes making it difficult to get an accurate diagnosis or determine the severity of a patient's condition. But now researchers have shown that 10 genes that can be detected in the blood could provide a better way to assess a patient....... More work remains to be done to confirm these findings, Niculescu said, adding that tests could hit the market in as little as five years."

Also, bipolar disorder encompasses a range of disorders, some much more severe than others:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_disorder

"There is no clear consensus as to how many types of bipolar disorder exist.[29] In DSM-IV-TR and ICD-10, bipolar disorder is conceptualized as a spectrum of disorders occurring on a continuum. The DSM-IV-TR lists four types of mood disorders which fit into the bipolar categories: Bipolar I, Bipolar II, Cyclothymia, and Bipolar Disorder NOS (Not Otherwise Specified)."

And from the same article, a brief discussion of creativity and BPD:

"Some studies have suggested a significant correlation between creativity and bipolar disorder. However, the relationship between the disorder and creativity is still very unclear.[3][4][5] One study indicated increased striving for, and sometimes attaining, goals and achievements.[6] While the disorder affects people differently, individuals with bipolar disorder tend to be much more outgoing and daring than individuals without bipolar disorder. The disorder is also found in a large number of people involved in the arts. It is an ongoing study as to why many creative geniuses had bipolar disorder."

Some very brilliant people have had BPD:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_believed_to_have_been_affected_by_b ipolar_disorder

"It is often suggested that genius (or, at least, creative talent) and mental disorder are linked, as discussed by Kay Redfield Jamison in Touched with Fire, though many of the diagnoses in that book are made by Jamison herself."

Kay Jamison is a psychologist who has BPD. Her biography is called An Unquiet Mind.

[gaelicpeas]

On Lindell Kay's blog, a comment by Rick Sutherland:

http://onslowcrime.encblogs.com/?p=9#comments

"We received multiple calls that I considered credible and numerous calls that were worth forwarding to my FBI counterpart to follow up by having an Agent go and speak with the caller."

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


No doubt Martha. I know the young couple who just had a baby here this week are battling it with the mother of the baby. She wasn't diagnosed until she told a whopper in HS as a senior and the police came out to see the family about the story. That actually was what sent them to get help.

Her mom said she thought something was amiss from time to time, but didn't think it was something as severe as bipolar and hated to force her to see a psychiatrist. She is a lovable young woman, no question, but she needed help and it took the school and LE to make it happen in the long run.

Pre-pregnancy she was medicated and doing better. Then they took her off the medication for the duration of the pregnancy once they confirmed it and now are getting her ready to go back on.

ALL JMO. :( [/*]

This is about Maria and she was never diagnosed with bipolar that we know of. jmo

[gaelicpeas]

Also.. check out this link for BPD misdiagnoses:

http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/*/bipolar/misdiag.htm

"When checking for a misdiagnosis of Bipolar disorder or confirming a diagnosis of Bipolar disorder, it is useful to consider what other medical conditions might be possible misdiagnoses or other alternative conditions relevant to diagnosis."

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
Also.. check out this link for BPD misdiagnoses:

http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/*/bipolar/misdiag.htm

"When checking for a misdiagnosis of Bipolar disorder or confirming a diagnosis of Bipolar disorder, it is useful to consider what other medical conditions might be possible misdiagnoses or other alternative conditions relevant to diagnosis." [/*]

Thanks for the links.

[Charlotte]

The Latest Mania: Selling Bipolar Disorder (http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371/journal.pmed.0030185)

This is one of a series of articles on disease mongering in the April 2006 issue.

If we consider adults alone for a moment, there is already the potential for creating an “epidemic” of bipolar disorder, because people are being diagnosed with the condition based on operational criteria that depend upon subjective judgements (rather than an objective criterion of disability, such as hospitalization or being off work for a month). The potential is compounded in the pediatric domain by the fact that the diagnosis is based on caregiver reports with little scope in most clinical practice for critical scrutiny of the social forces that may lead to these reports. Experts that appear willing to go so far as to accept the possibility that the first signs of bipolar disorder may be patterns of overactivity in utero [32] can only further compound these problems. If the resulting diagnoses were provisional, aimed at researching the natural history of childhood irritability, rather than reaching diagnoses that lead on to pharmacotherapy, there might be little problem. However, drugs such as Zyprexa and Risperdal are now being used for preschoolers in America with little questioning of this development [31].

[marinewife5]

http://onslowcrime.encblogs.com/?p=9

[Charlotte]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
On Lindell Kay's blog, a comment by Rick Sutherland:

http://onslowcrime.encblogs.com/?p=9#comments

"We received multiple calls that I considered credible and numerous calls that were worth forwarding to my FBI counterpart to follow up by having an Agent go and speak with the caller." [/*]

Thanks, gaelicpeas! :)

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Charlotte
The Latest Mania: Selling Bipolar Disorder (http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371/journal.pmed.0030185)



[/*]

ugh.. don't get me started on over-diagnosing of psychiatric disorders.. especially with respect to women and children. An interesting read is Women and Madness by Phyllis Chesler, PhD. I will look for a similar link for kids.

My guess, and this is purely a guess, is that ML was exhibiting some symptoms that could be BPD. They could also be symptomatic of many, many other things.

JMO

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
On Lindell Kay's blog, a comment by Rick Sutherland:

http://onslowcrime.encblogs.com/?p=9#comments

"We received multiple calls that I considered credible and numerous calls that were worth forwarding to my FBI counterpart to follow up by having an Agent go and speak with the caller." [/*]

woops...didn't see yours.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by marinewife5


woops...didn't see yours. [/*]

no problem.. at least we are both paying attention! :D

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


no problem.. at least we are both paying attention! :D [/*]

it seems like once a week our minds are in sync. :D

[Charlotte]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


ugh.. don't get me started on over-diagnosing of psychiatric disorders.. especially with respect to women and children. An interesting read is Women and Madness by Phyllis Chesler, PhD. I will look for a similar link for kids.

My guess, and this is purely a guess, is that ML was exhibiting some symptoms that could be BPD. They could also be symptomatic of many, many other things.

JMO [/*]

A major point in the article is that drug companies that manufacture the medications for the range of bipolar disorders are broadening the criteria for it simply to garner more customers for their products. The umbrella under which people are being considered "BIPOLAR" is expanding, without proper research and criteria behind it, and at the expense of many peoples' health and well-being. It's an orchestrated campaign, and sadly, it seems that an awful lot of people are falling for it. :(

[gaelicpeas]

A couple of links about misdiagnosis/overdiagnosis in kids, especially with respect to BPD:

http://finkshrink.com/blog/children/bipolar-disorder-overdiagnosed-in-children.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/15/us/15bipolar.html

"Bipolar is absolutely being overdiagnosed in children, and the major downside is that people then think they have a solution and are not amenable to listening to alternatives,” which may not include drugs, said Dr. Gabrielle Carlson, a professor of psychiatry and pediatrics at Stony Brook University School of Medicine on Long Island."

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by marinewife5


it seems like once a week our minds are in sync. :D [/*]

lol.. yep.. miracles do happen.. :D

So, mw5, are there any large parking lots near the Laurean house where CL could have parked ML's car? Like malls, etc.. somewhere close where he could have parked her car, then walked home?

[gaelicpeas]

(deleted that post)

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


lol.. yep.. miracles do happen.. :D

So, mw5, are there any large parking lots near the Laurean house where CL could have parked ML's car? Like malls, etc.. somewhere close where he could have parked her car, then walked home? [/*]

no. there's no room on the main road (gum branch) and houses along north bryan (his street turns off that one). there's a self storage place and a garage, both gated and locked in the evening. his house is the second house in on a small street with a cul-de-sac.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Charlotte


A major point in the article is that drug companies that manufacture the medications for the range of bipolar disorders are broadening the criteria for it simply to garner more customers for their products. The umbrella under which people are being considered "BIPOLAR" is expanding, without proper research and criteria behind it, and at the expense of many peoples' health and well-being. It's an orchestrated campaign, and sadly, it seems that an awful lot of people are falling for it. :( [/*]

oh yeah.. I have data at work about how many people are on some sort of medication, and it is astounding. But I will have to say JMO until I can retrieve it at work tomorrow.

(proud to be middle-aged and on ZERO meds myself)

So.. I am hoping this recent AMW airing will bring in some credible leads on CL's whereabouts. Captain Sutherland seemed optimistic, and I am just waiting for warmer weather to further assess the CL lookalikes that I see walking the streets up here.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by marinewife5


no. there's no room on the main road (gum branch) and houses along north bryan (his street turns off that one). there's a self storage place and a garage, both gated and locked in the evening. his house is the second house in on a small street with a cul-de-sac. [/*]

hmm.. that really makes me wonder where ML's car was after her murder... especially with Captain Sutherland saying it wasn't at the bus station the whole time...

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


hmm.. that really makes me wonder where ML's car was after her murder... especially with Captain Sutherland saying it wasn't at the bus station the whole time... [/*]

maybe down the street. or at his home. jmo

[Charlotte]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


zo

(edited to add: oops!) [/*]
:lol:
Thanks for the edit -- I was like :confused:

:D

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Charlotte


I'm pretty sure that what made Maria leave the Corps was her murder. I can't imagine her staying in afterwards. [/*]

I have no clue what you are talking about.

She left a note to Durham that she was tired of the Corps and leaving.

She told a friend a week before that she no longer liked the Corps and wanted out.

She was very alive at this time.:shrug:

SB said that Maria was facing a possible discharge from the Corps.

imoo

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by marinewife5


maybe down the street. or at his home. jmo [/*]

I lean toward either in a nearby parking lot (which you are saying there aren't any) or a friend's garage. I just don't see how a car would go in the Laurean garage with all the stuff they had in there.

Have you driven down this cul-de-sac? How long is it? I know if some strange car was parked in front of my house, which is at the end of a dead-end street, that I would notice it.

JMO

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


I lean toward either in a nearby parking lot (which you are saying there aren't any) or a friend's garage. I just don't see how a car would go in the Laurean garage with all the stuff they had in there.

Have you driven down this cul-de-sac? How long is it? I know if some strange car was parked in front of my house, which is at the end of a dead-end street, that I would notice it.

JMO [/*]

a strange car would be noticed. but maybe presumed to just be someone's visitor, and not necessarily noted. also, it was dark by then. jmo

[gaelicpeas]

Plus.. it is one thing to hide a body in a garage from the wife for a day or two.. but a car? As far as I can tell from the pictures we have, there is not a physical door from the laundry room to the garage, just a doorway. Now, I could be wrong about this, but I don't see a door. How the heck do you hide a car without the wife seeing it? Plus, it was the weekend.. when most working people, IMO, do laundry.

JMO

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
Plus.. it is one thing to hide a body in a garage from the wife for a day or two.. but a car? As far as I can tell from the pictures we have, there is not a physical door from the laundry room to the garage, just a doorway. Now, I could be wrong about this, but I don't see a door. How the heck do you hide a car without the wife seeing it? Plus, it was the weekend.. when most working people, IMO, do laundry.

JMO [/*]
I agree. It would help to know exactly where the car was and when, but we may never know for sure. I'm hoping that the "new" coverage may bring cl out from hiding. i'm sure he'll not be truthful, but at least fill in some of the blanks. jmo

[marinewife5]

it's sleepy time for me. have a good night y'all.:seeya:

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by marinewife5


a strange car would be noticed. but maybe presumed to just be someone's visitor, and not necessarily noted. also, it was dark by then. jmo [/*]

I wonder how long her car sat wherever it was? grrr.. I wish Captain Sutherland wasn't so cryptic with his answers...

hmm.. when did the neighbor say he saw her car? IIRC, it was 2-3 days after Dec 14.. but I may be imagining that..

JMO

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


I wonder how long her car sat wherever it was? grrr.. I wish Captain Sutherland wasn't so cryptic with his answers...

hmm.. when did the neighbor say he saw her car? IIRC, it was 2-3 days after Dec 14.. but I may be imagining that..

JMO [/*]

I recall the convo with the neighbor too. I just question the recollection of exact dates almost a month later. jmo

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by marinewife5
it's sleepy time for me. have a good night y'all.:seeya: [/*]

g'night.. :seeya: