Tuesday-04-01-08

[henry]

copied over nelkirk's great artwork on day 82:

Originally posted by nelkirk
CELEBRATE...


APRIL FOOLS DAY



Maybe today the truth will be told! [/*]

edit: crap - the colors and smiles didn't show . . . i'll go over to last nite's thread & get nelkirk & bkwits (who hasn't gone to bed yet . . . so watch what bkwits posts :D )

[henry]

got this pm reply to attorney's ethics . . . here's my comment for context & then the pm i got:

my post/reply: thanks for that bit of information (wasn't around when you posted it earlier) . . . imo there should be ethics/code of conduct laws/rules for lawyers where if they are in communication with a wanted fugitive, that they have the moral and legal obligation to turn that info to le.

pm message: It is their ethics/code of conduct. They are there for the accused. Their duty is to their client, period. Now if he is say a known serial killer or someone very likely to harm someone, then it behooves the atty. to contact LE. But the threat has to be imminent. IMO


i think the question still remains - how does the attorney know of any imminent threat? iirc, the fbi has a warning on their wanted poster . . . there's got to be a better way!

[henry]

we have a great poster, who wishes to remain behind the scenes, who put together a 3D drawing from what some of us believe the garage, laundry room and back yard looks like . . . and would appreciate you taking a look at it . . . when nuttintodo uploads it to the photobucket today.

there's one area of concern/question with this 3D drawing . . . the following picture of the carseat and the stud/pegboard wall has us stumped . . . in the drawing that will be uploaded today it is pictured as a "pony" wall = 1/2 wall (brown in the drawing). of course, as we get further information, this drawing will be updated. this is also the picture that's been sent to lkay at jdnews to see if they can figure it out.

http://a.abclocal.go.com/images/wtvd/cms_exf_2007/news/local/mcs_carrage.jpg

[bkwits]

Originally posted by henry
got this pm reply to attorney's ethics . . . here's my comment for context & then the pm i got:

my post/reply: thanks for that bit of information (wasn't around when you posted it earlier) . . . imo there should be ethics/code of conduct laws/rules for lawyers where if they are in communication with a wanted fugitive, that they have the moral and legal obligation to turn that info to le.

pm message: It is their ethics/code of conduct. They are there for the accused. Their duty is to their client, period. Now if he is say a known serial killer or someone very likely to harm someone, then it behooves the atty. to contact LE. But the threat has to be imminent. IMO


i think the question still remains - how does the attorney know of any imminent threat? iirc, the fbi has a warning on their wanted poster . . . there's got to be a better way! [/*]


'

Maybe his client has threatened to harm someone. For example, what if Cesar had told an atty representing him for on the rape charges that he would kill Maria if she didn't withdraw her accusation. I think that would qualify as imminent. Or that guy who killed Versace. It was obvious he would kill anyone who got in his way. I forgot how many he killed. Something like that.

Even if the client confesses to the atty that he brutally murdered someone, the atty cannot divulge that, ever. IMO

BTW, I just found out that there is a Supreme Ct. ruling that atty/client privilege does not end with the client's death. MW5 and I were discussing that.

[henry]

bkwits - i think i got it - so the only way cesar's attorney could divulge his whereabouts is if cesar, since 1-11-08, has told his lawyer he committed a crime (after 1-11) or is going to commit a crime . . . right?

edit: coffee's ready for everyone!

[henry]

there's so much good stuff from yesterday & taking the liberty of bringing over nelkirk's post from last nite . . . imo what nelkirk posted . . . that conversation would have taken days in our home!!!!! here's the copy/paste of the post: (unfortunately the red highlighting did not copy over):

IMO it is interesting that CSL has said that "my husband told me..." and then she has a list of things that allegedly CL told her.

http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2008/images/...scourts.gov.pdf

[QUOTE}On the morning of January 10, 2008, she and her husband rode to the office of Jacksonville Attorney Mark Raynor. While enroute, her husband asked her "If she was with him in this?" She told him, ""I do not know. Is there anything that you have not told me?"[/QUOTE]

Enroute to where? To the attorney's office or enroute to their home? If they were on their way to his attorney's office, how would she know #(9.) He obtained legal counsel and explained the facts to them. and #(10) He was told that he was facing the death penalty.

Remember that she is supposed to be going TOWARD the attorney's office.

Then allegedly CL unburdens himself to her while in the vehicle.

quote:k. Cesar Laurean told her that

(1.) On December 15, 2007, Maria Lauterback visited their residence at 103 Meadow Trail, Jacksonville, North Carolina.

(2.) Maria Lauterbach told him she had a plan and was leaving the area.

(3.) Maria Lauterbach demanded money from him.

(4.) He then went to the bus station and helped Maria to purchase a ticket.

(5.) Later in the evening, Maria went back to their residence, told him that her plan had failed, that an argument ensued.

(6.) Maria was disoriented, agitated and acting differently.

(7). Maria produced a knife and killed herself by slitting her throat.

(8.) He became scared, took her body to a wooded area adjacent to his residence and buried her.

(9.) He obtained legal counsel and explained the facts to them.

(10.) He was told that he was facing the death penalty.



So when did this alleged conversation take place?

The very fact that she says that CL told her that he had buried the body in a wooded area adjacent to his residence is obviously not correct.

I wonder why CL would lie to his own defense attorney by saying that he had just buried the body? And why if he had just buried the body would his defense attorney tell him that he was facing the death penalty.

Because if CSL was present in the inner office and privy to the privileged conversation between CL and his attorney, then either CL lied to his attorney or CSL was not in the room when he confessed to a crime where he would be facing the death penalty.

Or then again LE's "cooperating witness" is withholding information from LE...

IMO CSL was parked in the waiting room while CL talked to his attorney and on the way home he unburdened himself to her.

Either he told her on the way there in which case she is moonlighting at the psychic friends network or he told her after he had been in the office.

Whichever way, for whatever reason she has given a false statement to authorities.

(end quote/copy/paste)

[SavannahStar]

CELEBRATE...


APRIL FOOLS DAY:biggrin:



Maybe today the truth will be told!




Courtesy of Nelkirk. :beer:

[SavannahStar]

Nelkirk, your theory works only IF the question "are you with me on this" refers to burying the body and possibly facing the DP. Why is this an assumption, I always wondered that.

I always took "are you with me on this" to be a VERY "general" comment.......taking in the whole of the rape allegations, etc., and yeh, "stand by your man" type of thing.



And....(from the other thread) bkwits wanted to know what is CSL'S "false statement."

[henry]

crap :) how did you do that :confused:

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by henry
crap :) how did you do that :confused: [/*]

I didn't copy from the post itself. I quoted the post, then copied THAT, taking out the quote marks, but leaving in the codes for color and size.

[henry]

thanks! never would have thought of that.

[caejde]

Maybe he had met with the attorney on one of the days that Christina wasn't with him. He explained "his story". And then on the way back to the attorney the next day, he was telling Christina what the attorney had told him the day before. Because the way it's worded, it said they were on the way to the attorney's office and en route...so that makes me think they were on the way to the attorney's office. The "are you with me" can be taken a couple ways. It could be, "I'm sorry, I made a mistake, please stand by me because I'm innocent". Or it could be "alright, let's get our stories straight...this is what I'm going to say....are you with me? And then Christina you are going to say 'I dont' know...."

As to why the attorney told him he'd get the death penalty...he either told the attorney the whole the truth. Or the attorney didn't buy his story about the suicide and told him if cops didn't believe him, he could face the death penalty.

[henry]

ita caejde . . . but the thing that gets me is that it was apparently a conversation in the car . . . can you imagine having a discussion like that while driving :shrug:

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by caejde
Maybe he had met with the attorney on one of the days that Christina wasn't with him. He explained "his story". And then on the way back to the attorney the next day, he was telling Christina what the attorney had told him the day before. Because the way it's worded, it said they were on the way to the attorney's office and en route...so that makes me think they were on the way to the attorney's office. The "are you with me" can be taken a couple ways. It could be, "I'm sorry, I made a mistake, please stand by me because I'm innocent". Or it could be "alright, let's get our stories straight...this is what I'm going to say....are you with me? And then Christina you are going to say 'I dont' know...."

As to why the attorney told him he'd get the death penalty...he either told the attorney the whole the truth. Or the attorney didn't buy his story about the suicide and told him if cops didn't believe him, he could face the death penalty. [/*]

If we take the more sinister explanation..."alright, let's get our stories straight...this is what I'm going to say.....are you with me?".....WHY would CSL recount this conversation to LE at all?

:shrug:

[gaelicpeas]

I agree with Caejde as CL had requested 2 or 3 days off that week to consult with attorneys. The "enroute" conversation with CSL supposedly took place the morning of Jan 10. He may have been recounting what happened in his earlier meetings with an attorney from Tues or Wed.

JMO and happy April Fool's day!

[caejde]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


If we take the more sinister explanation..."alright, let's get our stories straight...this is what I'm going to say.....are you with me?".....WHY would CSL recount this conversation to LE at all?

:shrug: [/*]

Well Christina would leave the out "Cesar said this is what we're going to say..." Maybe I'm not explaining it clear enough. I guess this is what I'm imagining:

Cesar: Ok, Christina, when we're explaining all of this to the police, you'll say that I asked you if you were with me. And to completely erase you out of any wrong doing, you then will tell them you said to me "I don't know...is there something you're not telling me."

So, then it goes that Christina tells the detective they were on the way to the attorney's office and Cesar asks her "if she's with him on this" and she tells the detective she told him "I don't know...is there something you're not telling me"

[gaelicpeas]

Nelkirk commented last night about Wanda's sighting of the uniform on Friday morning and that it could have been CSL's MSGT or whatever he/she is called. To me, that would only work if this MSGT was driving the same kind of truck as CL...

(but a good idea, nonetheless!)

JMO

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by henry
we have a great poster, who wishes to remain behind the scenes, who put together a 3D drawing from what some of us believe the garage, laundry room and back yard looks like . . . and would appreciate you taking a look at it . . . when nuttintodo uploads it to the photobucket today.

there's one area of concern/question with this 3D drawing . . . the following picture of the carseat and the stud/pegboard wall has us stumped . . . in the drawing that will be uploaded today it is pictured as a "pony" wall = 1/2 wall (brown in the drawing). of course, as we get further information, this drawing will be updated. this is also the picture that's been sent to lkay at jdnews to see if they can figure it out.

http://a.abclocal.go.com/images/wtvd/cms_exf_2007/news/local/mcs_carrage.jpg [/*]

LOL! Well, now this picture has made me revise my "theory" of what the garage looks like. I thought the rear door would have been in this pic, but it is not - so now I am thinking the rear door is out of the laundry room!

JMO

[caejde]

Originally posted by henry
ita caejde . . . but the thing that gets me is that it was apparently a conversation in the car . . . can you imagine having a discussion like that while driving :shrug: [/*]

No I can't henry. My husband and I have plenty of conversations. And if ever said anything like that to me, I'm pulling the car over and ask him he better start talking. If this were my husband, I believe that right then I would be like "Jason, you have to go to the cops. Why in the he** didn't you tell me sooner? What in the he** were you thinking?" And I know I would be in shock if he confessed to doing something like Cesar did. I would be scared, angry, confused. But I do believe that I could call the police. But it's always hard to say what we would/would not do when we're not in the situation.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


If we take the more sinister explanation..."alright, let's get our stories straight...this is what I'm going to say.....are you with me?".....WHY would CSL recount this conversation to LE at all?

:shrug: [/*]

Quite possibly if she was feeling pressure while being interviewed. I am from the school of thought that even when lying, people need REFERENCE POINTS of the TRUTH to try and keep their stories cohesive.

Just like thinking there is some sprinkling of the truth about when Maria came back to the house. IF she had gone into labor, she might just have been out of control. It might explain the lack of pants and panties being mentioned in the autopsy if her water broke IMO.

I wonder if anyone thought to test the seat of her car from possible dried amniotic fluid?

Time will tell, but my neighbor had her baby last night. This is the young girl who is bipolar and came off the meds when she found out she was pregnant, thus under behavior therapy during the pregnancy. I was absolutely floored as just Friday she had another sonogram and they said the baby was progressing and the due date was April 27th. The doctor told her the baby was already six pounds and would probably be about eight or nine pounds at the time of delivery. He weighed five pounds, three ounces. It was an unplanned pregnancy and she has had two sonograms. She was adamant the due date was April 4th according to her calculations. They continued to tell her she was wrong. The hospital she delivered at has a shock trauma center, so I would expect their ultrasound equipment to be up to date and in good maintenance.

IT has made me think all night about Maria and her date vs the date the USMC gave. IF she was right, then I think she was feeling the symptoms on May 10th and the FEAR of what would happen when she called Mary upset. There was something unsettling about how Uncle Peter brought that up in the video the other day as he spoke about the pregnancy before the rape. While I realize he could have been simply out of synch speaking, it rang a little true for me, but that's probably because it fits what I'm thinking too.

ALL JMO and yes I realize I went all over the map in that one post. Too much thinking and not a good breakfast yet. :shrug:

[henry]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


LOL! Well, now this picture has made me revise my "theory" of what the garage looks like. I thought the rear door would have been in this pic, but it is not - so now I am thinking the rear door is out of the laundry room!

JMO [/*]

hah! don't go revising until you see the picture!!!! a pony wall might work and keep the door in the same location from gvs video and nuttintodo's picture from the outside into the garage (remember the one with the arrows?) . . . let's all go & wake nuttintodo up hammer - hah! only time i'll use this icon cause i don't like it!

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


good post henry. I have often wondered why, after that conversation, she didn't run run run and not look back. she could have used the receptionists office to call 911 while she waited, if necessary. {{{If a guy confessed to lawyers he had a body in his yard buried, etc and his wife was sitting right next to him in the lawyers office as he was confessing, do you think the lawyers would even wonder if the wife was in danger, should their client
even be trusted to turn himself in and be allowed to leave with the wife?}}}Did they worry XTina might be in danger? Did they meet XT and talk to her at all, or was she out in the waiting room the whole time? And why go to the atty appt with him and not sit in on the meeting? That makes no sense. Its not like he was getting a prostate exam, FGS, this affected her life too!!! she should have been in there, if she wasn't.
Or did he make her go with him because he didn't want to leave her alone to mess up his plan to get away...i dunno. [/*]

But Annie, see you TOO are basing your thoughts on the ASSUMPTION that the conversation that took place was as a result of him telling her Maria commit suicide and he buried the body.

I am NOT convinced of that at all. That is why I said above, posters are making that assumption, and I cannot see why.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by henry


hah! don't go revising until you see the picture!!!! a pony wall might work and keep the door in the same location from gvs video and nuttintodo's picture from the outside into the garage (remember the one with the arrows?) . . . let's all go & wake nuttintodo up hammer - hah! only time i'll use this icon cause i don't like it! [/*]

I am not sure what a pony wall is. It definitely looks like a pegboard to me where you hang tools, etc. So are you saying the door to the backyard from the garage is on the other side of this "pony wall"?

[henry]

*******************************************
good post henry. I have often wondered why, after that conversation, she didn't run run run and not look back. she could have used the receptionists office to call 911 while she waited, if necessary. {{{If a guy confessed to lawyers he had a body in his yard buried, etc and his wife was sitting right next to him in the lawyers office as he was confessing, do you think the lawyers would even wonder if the wife was in danger, should their client
even be trusted to turn himself in and be allowed to leave with the wife?}}}Did they worry XTina might be in danger? Did they meet XT and talk to her at all, or was she out in the waiting room the whole time? And why go to the atty appt with him and not sit in on the meeting? That makes no sense. Its not like he was getting a prostate exam, FGS, this affected her life too!!! she should have been in there, if she wasn't.
Or did he make her go with him because he didn't want to leave her alone to mess up his plan to get away...i dunno. [/*][/QUOTE]
******************************


why thank you ms. anniebean - trying to get on my good side for calling me your mom :no: . . . and, if she was working, xtina would also have to get the time off from work . . . wonder if the records show that?

[henry]

nope - don't know - maybe someone else does - got a full plate today - apple pie's cooking & have to go & visit the library.

[henry]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


I am not sure what a pony wall is. It definitely looks like a pegboard to me where you hang tools, etc. So are you saying the door to the backyard from the garage is on the other side of this "pony wall"? [/*]

yup . . . pony wall = 1/2 wall - kinda like a short divider

[marinewife5]

Item j on the search warrant claims that the conversation took place "enroute" to atty. mark raynor's office. http://www.jdnews.com/attachments/1200604372-1200598445affidavitverizonset09web.pdf

[GentleBreeze]

I have always thought CSL statement just seems *** backward.

QUOTE}On the morning of January 10, 2008, she and her husband rode to the office of Jacksonville Attorney Mark Raynor. While enroute, her husband asked her "If she was with him in this?" She told him, ""I do not know. Is there anything that you have not told me?"[/QUOTE]

I think by this time things were pretty intense and serious. I think they both knew it was the beginning of the end. I doubt he had ever taken time off from duty to see an attorney and had asked for three days to do it. I even wonder if he had even seen an attorney during the rape allegation period....that still remains murky to me.

IMO when someone asks another "if they are with them in "THIS" then "THIS" and the plan concerning "THIS" has been thoroughly discussed beforehand and his supposed comment would be more to seal the deal on the plan that had already been discussed.

imoo

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze
I have always thought CSL statement just seems *** backward.

QUOTE}On the morning of January 10, 2008, she and her husband rode to the office of Jacksonville Attorney Mark Raynor. While enroute, her husband asked her "If she was with him in this?" She told him, ""I do not know. Is there anything that you have not told me?"

I think by this time things were pretty tense and serious. I think they both knew it was the beginning of the end. I doubt he had ever taken time off from duty to see an attorney and had asked for three days to do it. I even wonder if he had even seen an attorney during the rape allegation period....that still remains murky to me.

IMO when someone asks another "if they are with them in "THIS" then "THIS" and the plan concerning "THIS" has been thoroughly discussed beforehand and his supposed comment would be more to seal the deal on the plan that had already been discussed.

imoo [/*][/QUOTE]
I think that the whole "are you with my on this" exchange sounds a bit too lifetime movie to me. a more realistic response from someone who knows nothing of the true events would sound more like "of course i am honey, we've made it this far together" jmo

[caejde]

Just read something on the search warrant that mw posted about the detective speaking to Cesar and Christina at their home. When did this happen????

This is what it says verbatim:

"Based on my training and experience, probable cause exists to believe that evidence of the crime of murder occurred at 103 Meadow Trail, Jacksonville, NC. I spoke to both Cesar and Christina at 103 Meadow Trail and know that the residence at that location is their property."

Edited to fix typos.

[caejde]

Originally posted by marinewife5


I think by this time things were pretty tense and serious. I think they both knew it was the beginning of the end. I doubt he had ever taken time off from duty to see an attorney and had asked for three days to do it. I even wonder if he had even seen an attorney during the rape allegation period....that still remains murky to me.

IMO when someone asks another "if they are with them in "THIS" then "THIS" and the plan concerning "THIS" has been thoroughly discussed beforehand and his supposed comment would be more to seal the deal on the plan that had already been discussed.

imoo [/*]
I think that the whole "are you with my on this" exchange sounds a bit too lifetime movie to me. a more realistic response from someone who knows nothing of the true events would sound more like "of course i am honey, we've made it this far together" jmo [/*][/QUOTE]
****

Right...and the "this" makes me think Cesar isn't talking about the rape. She had shown that she was with him while facing the rape allegations.

Edited to separate the posts...it didn't quote right.

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by caejde
Just read something on the search warrant that mw posted about the detective speaking to Cesar and Christina at their home. When did this happen????

This is what it says verbatim:

"Based on my training and experience, probably cause exists to believe that evidence of the crime of murder occurred at 103 Meadow Trail, Jacksonville, NC. I spoke to both Cesar and Christina at 103 Meadow Trail and know that the residence at that location is their property." [/*]

that date would be extremely relevant, imo.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by caejde

I think that the whole "are you with my on this" exchange sounds a bit too lifetime movie to me. a more realistic response from someone who knows nothing of the true events would sound more like "of course i am honey, we've made it this far together" jmo [/*]

Right...and the "this" makes me think Cesar isn't talking about the rape. She had shown that she was with him while facing the rape allegations. [/*][/QUOTE]

Exactly. She knew exactly what "THIS" meant imo.

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by caejde
Just read something on the search warrant that mw posted about the detective speaking to Cesar and Christina at their home. When did this happen????

This is what it says verbatim:

"Based on my training and experience, probably cause exists to believe that evidence of the crime of murder occurred at 103 Meadow Trail, Jacksonville, NC. I spoke to both Cesar and Christina at 103 Meadow Trail and know that the residence at that location is their property." [/*]

I remember that, caejde.

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Right...and the "this" makes me think Cesar isn't talking about the rape. She had shown that she was with him while facing the rape allegations. [/*]

Exactly. She knew exactly what "THIS" meant imo. [/*][/QUOTE]

WHEN cl is captured (i'm having faith today) it will be interesting to see what his account is. i'm not saying he would be honest, but it should match csl's to some degree if she told the truth. jmo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by marinewife5


that date would be extremely relevant, imo. [/*]

I would think it was somewhere around the 10th because he was gone by the 11th wasn't he?

imoo

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by marinewife5




IMO when someone asks another "if they are with them in "THIS" then "THIS" and the plan concerning "THIS" has been thoroughly discussed beforehand and his supposed comment would be more to seal the deal on the plan that had already been discussed.
[/*]

I disagree. I think of "this" as being an entire situation, and not indicative at all of any concrete plans/deception.

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I would think it was somewhere around the 9th because he was gone by the 10th wasn't he?

imoo [/*]

11th, per csl in the affidavit. (when he left)

[Kel65]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I would think it was somewhere around the 10th because he was gone by the 11th wasn't he?

imoo [/*]

Yep, I believe that is when things regarding the escape to Mexico went changed from contingency planning into execution mode. JMO

[caejde]

So, when did the detective talked to both Cesar and Christina at the same time...and if he was at their house, I wonder if he noticed anything out of the ordinary.

[GentleBreeze]

What is happening to our quotes?:confused: They are getting all mixed up and look like another poster wrote them rather than the original one.

Anyone notice that but me? Don't tell me I still have brain lag from last night.:eek:

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by marinewife5


11th, per csl in the affidavit. (when he left) [/*]

Sorry MW...you are too fast for me........I edited my post but not in time.

imo:seeya:

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


I disagree. I think of "this" as being an entire situation, and not indicative at all of any concrete plans/deception. [/*]

the quote is actually gentlebreeze's. i don't know how it showed up like it did on the board.

and "this" to me is also the entire situation. not solely the rape allegation. and why not ask him if there's something he's not telling her after the police leave their house? after the accuser goes missing? why only ask him as a response to "are you with me on this?" i would jump for joy if it was proven bard that she was not involved, and had no knowledge prior to january 10th. but i just don't see it. jmo

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze
What is happening to our quotes?:confused: They are getting all mixed up and look like another poster wrote them rather than the original one.

Anyone notice that but me? Don't tell me I still have brain lag from last night.:eek:

imoo [/*]

I've noticed and it's annoying. :seeya:

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Kel65


Yep, I believe that is when things regarding the escape to Mexico went changed from contingency planning into execution mode. JMO [/*]

Hi Kel.

I think the entire time other than seeing the lawyer was critiquing the plan and getting ready for departure. Wouldn't surprise me if he worked on those noteS during this 2-3 day window.

Be interesting to see if they ever tracked his initial bus ticket down and found out the day it was purchased.

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


I've noticed and it's annoying. :seeya: [/*]

:seeya: Well thank goodness someone else is seeing it. I thought to myself........."oh no, Ocean, you are starting out this morning as befuddled as you were last night.":D

imo

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Hi Kel.

I think the entire time other than seeing the lawyer was critiquing the plan and getting ready for departure. Wouldn't surprise me if he worked on those noteS during this 2-3 day window.

Be interesting to see if they ever tracked his initial bus ticket down and found out the day it was purchased.

imoo [/*]

Morning Ocean!

You know there is no telling when he starting penning his novella.

I'm sure his ticket was tracked, it's known where he purchased the ticket and remember RS's answer: 10) The info on the bus ticket is being withheld for operational purposes.

JMO

[scillak]

Originally posted by caejde
Just read something on the search warrant that mw posted about the detective speaking to Cesar and Christina at their home. When did this happen????

This is what it says verbatim:

"Based on my training and experience, probable cause exists to believe that evidence of the crime of murder occurred at 103 Meadow Trail, Jacksonville, NC. I spoke to both Cesar and Christina at 103 Meadow Trail and know that the residence at that location is their property."

Edited to fix typos. [/*]

It seems like that sentence "I spoke to both Cesar and Christina at 103 Meadow Trail and know that the residence at that location is their property." - might just mean that at some point in time he had spoken to each of them at the house. The sentence seems to be there to show that they live there, it's their property. I don't think it meant that he talked to them together at the same time necessarily. It's certainly vague, though. Just a guess....

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
Nelkirk commented last night about Wanda's sighting of the uniform on Friday morning and that it could have been CSL's MSGT or whatever he/she is called. To me, that would only work if this MSGT was driving the same kind of truck as CL...

(but a good idea, nonetheless!)

JMO [/*]

Black trucks up there are very common.

Whoa I bet it was. Didn't Wanda say she saw him there around 6:30 am....if so according to CSL, CL was long gone and I am sure her ex boss would have come by there to take her to the base.

And remember even later I think either LE or the MC MPs brought her to the scene. So imo she was not in her own vehicle when she left her home that morning.

Nel is so astute.:patriot:

imo

[daniel green]

Originally posted by henry
bkwits - i think i got it - so the only way cesar's attorney could divulge his whereabouts is if cesar, since 1-11-08, has told his lawyer he committed a crime (after 1-11) or is going to commit a crime . . . right?

edit: coffee's ready for everyone! [/*]

No, not if he has committed a crime since. No way could a laywer share that with anyone.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by daniel green


No, not if he has committed a crime since. No way could a laywer share that with anyone. [/*]

Hey daniel!

I wanted to ask you something...wasn't it the Eric Miller case in which the court made Mr. Williard's (he committed suicide) attorney dilvuge what his client told him in regards to Ann Miller Koontz's and/or his participation in Miller's death?

So basically the court ruled that attorney-client privilege ends at death?

TIA

Sorry for the O/T.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Morning Ocean!

You know there is no telling when he starting penning his novella.

I'm sure his ticket was tracked, it's known where he purchased the ticket and remember RS's answer: 10) The info on the bus ticket is being withheld for operational purposes.

JMO [/*]

Morning Nuttin!

I hope they searched for notes that he had thrown away or a note pad that may have the pen impressions of his handwriting into the paper where they can test to see what it said.

Sure would be interesting to know if ticket was bought prior to Jan. 11th. Heck it would be even more interesting if it was purchased prior to December 14th. After all, he was known as a stellar marine (lol) and they are usually very gung ho about getting their ducks in a row and bus tickets are good for 6 months. I do think because he had much longer to work on his escape plan he did it much more organized.

The murder wasn't planned imo and when he couldn't think this out clearly the murder and cover up became disorganized chaos.

imoo:seeya:

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by caejde
Just read something on the search warrant that mw posted about the detective speaking to Cesar and Christina at their home. When did this happen????

This is what it says verbatim:

"Based on my training and experience, probable cause exists to believe that evidence of the crime of murder occurred at 103 Meadow Trail, Jacksonville, NC. I spoke to both Cesar and Christina at 103 Meadow Trail and know that the residence at that location is their property."

Edited to fix typos. [/*]

We discussed this once before, Caejde. I have forgotten now exactly how our discussion went - but we were thinking, IIRC, that the detective went to their house, asked if they were CL and CSL, they said yes, then the detective said he had some questions for CL and CL said he would only talk with an attorney.

Or at least that was how I remember our discusion. JMO

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by AnnieBean
thinking as a poster said upthread that there are little truths in lies...maybe he really did say "Are you with me on this?"...just not ON THE WAY TO THE LAWYERS OFFICE?? maybe he said it as they sat down to write the letters together. maybe he said it sometime during or just seconds prior to the commission of a murder. maybe he said it as they or he put maria and gabriel in the pit in the backyard....??? [/*]

I remember CS saying Christina knew from Thursday evening and got to the police with the information the next morning. He had said there was a 12 to 16 hour delay in getting the information to police. He also said IIRC he didn't think it to be an excessive amount of time.

I believe Christina spent the time begging Cesar to stay and was told by Cesar he would stay and go to police with her the next morning. When she woke up and found him gone with some notes for her, she then reached out to others and got to police within four hours.

When Christina's parents said she told them she was asking Cesar to stay, I believe that was when she first found out and not at 4 am.



jmo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Hey daniel!

I wanted to ask you something...wasn't it the Eric Miller case in which the court made Mr. Williard's (he committed suicide) attorney divulge what his client told him in regards to Ann Miller Koontz's and/or his participation in Miller's death?

So basically the court ruled that attorney-client privilege ends at death?

TIA

Sorry for the O/T. [/*]

I do know there are exceptions when it comes to attorney=client privilege.

I am not sure what they are though and what circumstances.

I have seen divorce attorneys testify as to what their client told them if their client has been murdered and the spouse has been charged.

imoo

[caejde]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


We discussed this once before, Caejde. I have forgotten now exactly how our discussion went - but we were thinking, IIRC, that the detective went to their house, asked if they were CL and CSL, they said yes, then the detective said he had some questions for CL and CL said he would only talk with an attorney.

Or at least that was how I remember our discusion. JMO [/*]

I don't know if I was around then...but anyway. Sorry to have brought it up again.

[daniel green]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Hey daniel!

I wanted to ask you something...wasn't it the Eric Miller case in which the court made Mr. Williard's (he committed suicide) attorney dilvuge what his client told him in regards to Ann Miller Koontz's and/or his participation in Miller's death?

So basically the court ruled that attorney-client privilege ends at death?

TIA

Sorry for the O/T. [/*]

Good morning, Nuttin!

The US Supreme Ct has ruled that atty-client privilege extends after death (Ken Starr case vs trying to get Vince Foster's notes).

Attorney-client privilege
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attorney-client_privilege

Attorney-client privilege is a legal concept that protects communications between a client and his or her attorney and keeps those communications confidential. This privilege encourages open and honest communication between clients and attorneys. However, in the United States, not all state courts treat attorney communications as privileged. For instance, Washington state law, and the federal courts when applying federal law, only protect client communications—an attorney's communication will only be protected as privileged to the extent it contains or reveals the client's communications.[citation needed] In contrast, California state law protects the attorney's confidential communications regardless of whether they contain, refer to or reveal the client's communications. In addition, the United States Supreme Court has ruled that the privilege generally does not terminate upon the client's death. See Swidler & Berlin v. United States.[1]

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Morning Nuttin!

I hope they searched for notes that he had thrown away or a note pad that may have the pen impressions of his handwriting into the paper where they can test to see what it said.

Sure would be interesting to know if ticket was bought prior to Jan. 11th. Heck it would be even more interesting if it was purchased prior to December 14th. After all, he was known as a stellar marine (lol) and they are usually very gung ho about getting their ducks in a row and bus tickets are good for 6 months. I do think because he had much longer to work on his escape plan he did it much more organized.

The murder wasn't planned imo and when he couldn't think this out clearly the murder and cover up became disorganized chaos.

imoo:seeya: [/*]

I totally agree about the murder not being planned. The murder just happened as a result of some type of argument and/or confrontation. Who knows, he could have been so enraged that he picked up the first thing available to him.

The three days shy of a month was probably used to get his ducks in a row and it could have been during this time the bus ticket was purchased. Hopefully when he is eventually captured, more information will come out as to the date of purchase, etc.

I still can't get over the fact that he continued to go to work and act as if nothing happened. I don't know about you but my conscience would be eating me alive.

jmo

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by caejde


I don't know if I was around then...but anyway. Sorry to have brought it up again. [/*]

No problem on bringing it up again - we have discussed everything in this case multiple times! And like you, others weren't around then for the discussion and would probably like to discuss it. I was just saying how I thought we had "explained it away" - or at least it made sense to me at the time.

JMO

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


*snipped*

I still can't get over the fact that he continued to go to work and act as if nothing happened. I don't know about you but my conscience would be eating me alive.

jmo [/*]

I would think so....but I think he basically went into "survival mode" thinking of his daughter and wife. I know that seems crazy because of course if he did think of his family, he would not have done the deed at all. However, I too believe it was a rage/spur of the moment killing. Afterwards I believe his conscience DID bother him.....but more importantly, he did not want to be caught. It's almost a primal instinct.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


I would think so....but I think he basically went into "survival mode" thinking of his daughter and wife. I know that seems crazy because of course if he did think of his family, he would not have done the deed at all. However, I too believe it was a rage/spur of the moment killing. Afterwards I believe his conscience DID bother him.....but more importantly, he did not want to be caught. It's almost a primal instinct. [/*]

I don't believe he had a conscience. If he did he wouldn't have murdered Maria and Gabriel in the first place.

jmo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


I totally agree about the murder not being planned. The murder just happened as a result of some type of argument and/or confrontation. Who knows, he could have been so enraged that he picked up the first thing available to him.

The three days shy of a month was probably used to get his ducks in a row and it could have been during this time the bus ticket was purchased. Hopefully when he is eventually captured, more information will come out as to the date of purchase, etc.

I still can't get over the fact that he continued to go to work and act as if nothing happened. I don't know about you but my conscience would be eating me alive.

jmo [/*]

I couldn't either but he knew he HAD to GO......if not they would have been suspicious about him. That is the one thing that strongly made them feel he wasn't a flight risk. He was there everyday he was supposed to be ......even leaving for 10 days and returning on schedule. He knew if he acted out of the stellar norm it would change everything. The only day he was ever UA was the day he couldn't care less anymore.

imo

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by AnnieBean
IMO-

"Survival Mode" would be taking actions whether immediate or delayed to save your own life and the life of others to ensure that you dont DIE (just my own definition)

"CYA" mode would be taking actions to attempt to cover up the
what you have done for the protection of your own butt...to ensure that your don't GET CAUGHT. (just my own impression)

he wasn't trying to "survive" those almost 30 days, he was cya'ing all day long....

jmo [/*]

I believe for most of the time he thought he had gotten away with it. Even having Maria
buried in the back yard, he thought he was smarter then the police and he would never be found out. When the police were getting to close is when he decided to run to save himself.

jmo

[bkwits]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Hey daniel!

I wanted to ask you something...wasn't it the Eric Miller case in which the court made Mr. Williard's (he committed suicide) attorney dilvuge what his client told him in regards to Ann Miller Koontz's and/or his participation in Miller's death?

So basically the court ruled that attorney-client privilege ends at death?

TIA

Sorry for the O/T. [/*]



:seeya: Mornin'

MW and I were discussing about atty/client privilege ending at death of the client. I since found out that there is a Supreme Ct. ruling (affecting all states of course) that the atty/client privilege does not end at death. I'll look up the date of the ruling. IMO

ETA
Oops I see DG already posted it. I'm playing catch up this AM

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by AnnieBean
IMO-

"Survival Mode" would be taking actions whether immediate or delayed to save your own life and the life of others to ensure that you dont DIE (just my own definition)

"CYA" mode would be taking actions to attempt to cover up the
what you have done for the protection of your own butt...to ensure that your don't GET CAUGHT. (just my own impression)

he wasn't trying to "survive" those almost 30 days, he was cya'ing all day long....

jmo [/*]

Well in my opinion "survival" in those circumstances IS "CYA."

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


I don't believe he had a conscience. If he did he wouldn't have murdered Maria and Gabriel in the first place.

jmo [/*]

We had a great discussion on this a couple of days ago.

I don't think your #2 sentence necessarily follows #1, unfortunately.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


I believe for most of the time he thought he had gotten away with it. Even having Maria
buried in the back yard, he thought he was smarter then the police and he would never be found out. When the police were getting to close is when he decided to run to save himself.

jmo [/*]

ITA, I think he could have gone on with his life as if nothing happened. He was quite happy to be free of that problem (Maria). IMO

[bkwits]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


but it could still have exceptions to that rule? [/*]

Yes, that is most likely the case. It seems there are always exceptions but I think they would be narrow in this instance. But the Supreme Ct. ruling upheld the privilege even though the deceased's documents were requested for a criminal investigation. IMO

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


We had a great discussion on this a couple of days ago.

I don't think your #2 sentence necessarily follows #1, unfortunately. [/*]

I don't believe anyone can have a conscious and murder. Especially the brutality of this murder that sheds a whole new light on Cesar. IF he raped Maria just prior to the murder, he crossed over into a whole new realm of thought.

I believe when he got into Mexico any contact with his family, friends, Christina, and his lawyers stopped. I don't believe his lawyer knows where he is.

I believe if someone in Mexico gets an idea of who he is and he knows that, he wouldn't hesitate to kill again. Especially some poor unsuspecting woman.

JMO

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


I don't believe he had a conscience. If he did he wouldn't have murdered Maria and Gabriel in the first place.

jmo [/*]

I don't believe that is true just because he murdered someone.

We have seen many murders happen in a heat of passion moment when in a very heated argument with too much raw emotions in play. A split second decision made that someone could regret immediately. That is why jurors convict on varying degrees when it comes to homicides.

All cases are not the same. If he methodically and careful plotted out the murder beforehand.......took her body to a remote swampy area hoping it was never found then he would have to be a man with no conscience to do that imo. But also IMOO he killed her in a heat of extreme passion then panicked and did a poor job of covering it up and placing the body.

I have nothing to show me he didn't have a conscience. He did an awful thing and he must pay for it if proven BARD but I do think some people do instantly regret it. Whether he does or doesn't can only be known to him.

imo

[Charlotte]

I have a question about the concrete blocks around the fire pit. This has probably been discussed before and I missed it, so please forgive me if I'm asking about something that has already been hashed out. I'm trying to get a timeline for certain things straight in my head.

There were 12 concrete blocks around the pit where ML was buried, which were apparently removed by LE at the start of the excavation.

CS purchased the same kind of concrete blocks in one of his trips to Lowe's, IIRC the one on Dec. 19th?

Was there already a fire pit with concrete blocks in the backyard prior to ML's death (didn't someone post pics of the backyard before the Laureans owned it, with the blocks already there?), or were these added to the property by CL after her death, to create a burial/burning spot?

If the pit with concrete blocks was already there, I wonder why CL bought more of them, what they were used for and where they are now (did LE find them somewhere on the property?). IOW, was the purchase of concrete blocks at Lowe's related to ML's death and burial, or purchased for some other reason and just a coincidence of some sort?

Did he replace the existing concrete blocks with the new ones after burying ML? If so, for what reason, and where are the old ones now?

Conversely, if the Laureans did not have a fire pit ringed by concrete blocks in use prior to ML's death, and the blocks from Lowe's were used to create one, then what would the timeline have been for CL in burying the body, buying the blocks, and creating the fire pit (not necessarily in that order), without anything being noticed and thought to be new or strange by CSL or the neighbors?

Again, sorry if this has already all been established. I'm trying to get it all straight.

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I don't believe that is true just because he murdered someone.

We have seen many murders happen in a heat of passion moment when in a very heated argument with too much raw emotions in play. A split second decision made that someone could regret immediately. That is why jurors convict on varying degrees when it comes to homicides.

All cases are not the same. If he methodically and careful plotted out the murder beforehand.......took her body to a remote swampy area hoping it was never found then he would have to be a man with no conscience to do that imo. But also IMOO he killed her in a heat of extreme passion then panicked and did a poor job of covering it up and placing the body.

I have nothing to show me he didn't have a conscience. He did an awful thing and he must pay for it if proven BARD but I do think some people do instantly regret it. Whether he does or doesn't can only be known to him.

imo [/*]

EXCELLENT, GB....I am sure you were in that discussion I recalled from the other day. ITA with everything here.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I don't believe that is true just because he murdered someone.

We have seen many murders happen in a heat of passion moment when in a very heated argument with too much raw emotions in play. A split second decision made that someone could regret immediately. That is why jurors convict on varying degrees when it comes to homicides.

All cases are not the same. If he methodically and careful plotted out the murder beforehand.......took her body to a remote swampy area hoping it was never found then he would have to be a man with no conscience to do that imo. But also IMOO he killed her in a heat of extreme passion then panicked and did a poor job of covering it up and placing the body.

I have nothing to show me he didn't have a conscience. He did an awful thing and he must pay for it if proven BARD but I do think some people do instantly regret it. Whether he does or doesn't can only be known to him.

imo [/*]

I agree that not all murderers lack a conscience. I have told the story here before of how my gr-grandfather killed another man when ggfather was very young (about 19 or so). He was tried for murder but it was ruled self-defense. Ggdad lived to about 80. My mother said that he supposedly saw the face of the man he killed when he was on his death bed.

OTH, whoever killed Maria (I think it was Cesar), IMO, does not have a conscience. The burying and burning, having celebratory bonfires over her body. Throwing the baby outfit in the pit. No, I can't believe that person has a conscience. IMO

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by Charlotte
I have a question about the concrete blocks around the fire pit. This has probably been discussed before and I missed it, so please forgive me if I'm asking about something that has already been hashed out. I'm trying to get a timeline for certain things straight in my head.

There were 12 concrete blocks around the pit where ML was buried, which were apparently removed by LE at the start of the excavation.

CS purchased the same kind of concrete blocks in one of his trips to Lowe's, IIRC the one on Dec. 19th?

Was there already a fire pit with concrete blocks in the backyard prior to ML's death (didn't someone post pics of the backyard before the Laureans owned it, with the blocks already there?), or were these added to the property by CL after her death, to create a burial/burning spot?

If the pit with concrete blocks was already there, I wonder why CL bought more of them, what they were used for and where they are now (did LE find them somewhere on the property?). IOW, was the purchase of concrete blocks at Lowe's related to ML's death and burial, or purchased for some other reason and just a coincidence of some sort?

Did he replace the existing concrete blocks with the new ones after burying ML? If so, for what reason, and where are the old ones now?

Conversely, if the Laureans did not have a fire pit ringed by concrete blocks in use prior to ML's death, and the blocks from Lowe's were used to create one, then what would the timeline have been for CL in burying the body, buying the blocks, and creating the fire pit (not necessarily in that order), without anything being noticed and thought to be new or strange by CSL or the neighbors?

Again, sorry if this has already all been established. I'm trying to get it all straight. [/*]

The cinder blocks were purchased at Lowe's as per the video on AMW on 12/16.

A poster over at WRAL.com said they had 'inside' information and the Laurean's had a fire pit prior (about a year before), but from the overhead's on the GIS maps, there is a number over the area so I can't determine if the pit was in existence in the 2006 aerial.

I don't know why but I have the feeling no blocks were there until the 12/16 purchase.

The Alander's said the Laurean's never did any burning until after 12/14. There was three burnings that we know of...Christmas Eve, Christmas Day and New Year's Eve.

I also have the feeling that anyone burning in or around N. Bryan/Meadow Trail wouldn't be out of the ordinary.

I still can't understand why no one smelled burning flesh.

JMO

(And I corrected the link to photobucket, Thanks!)

[caejde]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


The cinder blocks were purchased at Lowe's as per the video on AMW on 12/16.

A poster over at WRAL.com said they had 'inside' information and the Laurean's had a fire pit prior (about a year before), but from the overhead's on the GIS maps, there is a number over the area so I can't determine if the pit was in existence in the 2006 aerial.

I don't know why but I have the feeling no blocks were there until the 12/16 purchase.

The Alander's said the Laurean's never did any burning until after 12/14. There was three burnings that we know of...Christmas Eve, Christmas Day and New Year's Eve.

I also have the feeling that anyone burning in or around N. Bryan/Meadow Trail wouldn't be out of the ordinary.

I still can't understand why no one smelled burning flesh.

JMO

(And I corrected the link to photobucket, Thanks!) [/*]

Nuttin, I was reading on another site and it was said that neighbors did smell something but they just thought it was something in the trash. Me personally, I don't know if I smelled something nasty burning that I would automatically think it was a body. But I do wonder if her body being buried hid a lot of the smell.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


I believe for most of the time he thought he had gotten away with it. Even having Maria
buried in the back yard, he thought he was smarter then the police and he would never be found out. When the police were getting to close is when he decided to run to save himself.

jmo [/*]

But that is usually the first place LE looks........they walk through the house and they thoroughly look for signs or strange out of place things on the outside premises.

The reason he got away with it for so long was because everyone was under the same impression that Maria had left on her own.

That is why many of these murderers have been caught when they have the bodies buried in their own backyards.

It was dumb imo but he was afraid of being seen with her body in the back of his truck even rolled up in something imo. He had an open bed truck.

imoo

[bkwits]

Originally posted by caejde


Nuttin, I was reading on another site and it was said that neighbors did smell something but they just thought it was something in the trash. Me personally, I don't know if I smelled something nasty burning that I would automatically think it was a body. But I do wonder if her body being buried hid a lot of the smell. [/*]

Who could get their mind around a body being burned in a neighbor's back yard.:eek:

I live in a country subdivision and sometimes find dead critters in my yard. So the neighbors could have suspected an animal being burned. Or a compost pile or something like that. IMO

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by caejde


Nuttin, I was reading on another site and it was said that neighbors did smell something but they just thought it was something in the trash. Me personally, I don't know if I smelled something nasty burning that I would automatically think it was a body. But I do wonder if her body being buried hid a lot of the smell. [/*]

You know I can go with that...considering it's not everyday a person would assume their neighbor was burning a human body in a fire pit just because they smelled something odd. So I'll back off my statement about the burning flesh.

Multiple burnings could have masked the smell along with any accelerant used (if there was one, which there probably was--how else would or could he get a fire going fast?).

jmo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by bkwits


I agree that not all murderers lack a conscience. I have told the story here before of how my gr-grandfather killed another man when ggfather was very young (about 19 or so). He was tried for murder but it was ruled self-defense. Ggdad lived to about 80. My mother said that he supposedly saw the face of the man he killed when he was on his death bed.

OTH, whoever killed Maria (I think it was Cesar), IMO, does not have a conscience. The burying and burning, having celebratory bonfires over her body. Throwing the baby outfit in the pit. No, I can't believe that person has a conscience. IMO [/*]

I don't see that is not having a conscience. Everyone has the need for survival. He was trying to camouflage where he had placed her and go on as if nothing had happened to avoid detection.

I am still in agreement with Captain Sutherland when he told GVS that Laurean did not purposefully have the intent to burn the bodies and only put the bonfire there to disguise the grave. It is obvious they are still of that opinion as DA Hudson has not charged him with desecrating the body which he most certainly could do if he has evidence to prove that was his intent. I don't think any accelerants will be found in the soil samples, on bodies or clothing.

Men are not that attached to children before they are born. The throwing of the baby clothes into the pit sounds more like what an irate wife would do imo.

imoo

[caejde]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


You know I can go with that...considering it's not everyday a person would assume their neighbor was burning a human body in a fire pit just because they smelled something odd. So I'll back off my statement about the burning flesh.

Multiple burnings could have masked the smell along with any accelerant used (if there was one, which there probably was--how else would or could he get a fire going fast?).

jmo [/*]

Oh you dont' have to stop mentioning the burning flesh. I had thought of that myself...but I just didn't know if I would even know what it smelled like.

I believe accelerant was used as well. Usually that's how you get a fire going.

[daniel green]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


snipped

I have seen divorce attorneys testify as to what their client told them if their client has been murdered and the spouse has been charged.

imoo [/*]

Yep. When the lawyer waves/breaks the privilege.

But the lawyer could choose to not break it and stay zipped.

[daniel green]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


I don't believe he had a conscience. If he did he wouldn't have murdered Maria and Gabriel in the first place.

jmo [/*]

I believe this is a prime example of why the Robbie Ludwigs of this world do harm.

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by daniel green


I believe this is a prime example of why the Robbie Ludwigs of this world do harm. [/*]

Hola, POST OF THE DAY!

:beer:

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


You know I can go with that...considering it's not everyday a person would assume their neighbor was burning a human body in a fire pit just because they smelled something odd. So I'll back off my statement about the burning flesh.

Multiple burnings could have masked the smell along with any accelerant used (if there was one, which there probably was--how else would or could he get a fire going fast?).

jmo [/*]

All he had to do with his very dried out parched old wood fencing is put wadded up paper along with small sticks to get the fire roaring.

I don't think the body could be smelled when she was below the surface. The reason she was charred imo as the heat built up above ground it also heated up the ground cavity below and since the heat was trapped in the cavity that is why she was charred and burned in areas where the heat generated. Also the grave had to have shifted some by the time they had their Christmas bonfire due to decomposition and shrinkage from her normal weight of 140 down to 95 pounds. That would loosen the dirt around her where some embers could fall through little cracks and crevices.

JMO of course.

[daniel green]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


snipped

I still can't understand why no one smelled burning flesh.

JMO

[/*]

Well, Germans did not smell a thing during the Nazi putting millions and millions in mass graves to rot...

But, actually, putting it in the pit like that, would make the smell less noticeable.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I don't see that is not having a conscience. Everyone has the need for survival. He was trying to camouflage where he had placed her and go on as if nothing had happened to avoid detection.

I am still in agreement with Captain Sutherland when he told GVS that Laurean did not purposefully have the intent to burn the bodies and only put the bonfire there to disguise the grave. It is obvious they are still of that opinion as DA Hudson has not charged him with desecrating the body which he most certainly could do if he has evidence to prove that was his intent. I don't think any accelerants will be found in the soil samples, on bodies or clothing.

Men are not that attached to children before they are born. The throwing of the baby clothes into the pit sounds more like what an irate wife would do imo.

imoo [/*]

I think the statement of not intending to burn the bodies has been proven to be in error. IMO.

I think the statement that men are not attached to their unborn children is a little too broad. IMHO.

I still feel that, if Cesar did all that he has been charged with, he lacks empathy and conscience. MOO

[daniel green]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


Hola, POST OF THE DAY!

:beer: [/*]

Buenas tardes!

Yeah, it is such a horror story that we have become a bunch of armchair Dxers.

Not to mention my other pet peeve--how mssg board posters have become instant experts on photoshopped pics.

[daniel green]

Originally posted by bkwits




I think the statement that men are not attached to their unborn children is a little too broad. IMHO.

snipped[/*]

I agree.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


All he had to do with his very dried out parched old wood fencing is put wadded up paper along with small sticks to get the fire roaring.

I don't think the body could be smelled when she was below the surface. The reason she was charred imo as the heat built up above ground it also heated up the ground cavity below and since the heat was trapped in the cavity that is why she was charred and burned in areas where the heat generated. Also the grave had to have shifted some by the time they had their Christmas bonfire due to decomposition and shrinkage from her normal weight of 140 down to 95 pounds. That would loosen the dirt around her where some embers could fall through little cracks and crevices.

JMO of course. [/*]

He could have used the paper and fencing but IMO, he wanted to get the fire going like yesterday....quickly, so in my thinking he did use an accerlerant. CAL most likely thought the burying/burning of Maria's remains would rid him completely of his 'problem'.

jmo

Now when my DH starts to burn something large...it's diesel fuel time... LOL.

[daniel green]

Originally posted by caejde


Oh you dont' have to stop mentioning the burning flesh. I had thought of that myself...but I just didn't know if I would even know what it smelled like.

snipped. [/*]

Kinda like burnt hair.

If you don't want to smell it do not have lasik eye surgery. I had my eyes done and they went through every minor detail prior to the procedure telling me what instrument they would use, what I would see, what I would feel and I was totally prepared.

Or so I thought. Till I smelled burning flesh. ACK. Then I yelled out, ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO BE BURNING MY EYE?

I obviously did not have my thinking cap on since they were using a laser. :rolleyes:

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by bkwits


I think the statement of not intending to burn the bodies has been proven to be in error. IMO.

I think the statement that men are not attached to their unborn children is a little too broad. IMHO.

I still feel that, if Cesar did all that he has been charged with, he lacks empathy and conscience. MOO [/*]

When has it been proven in error?

Have I missed something and CS has stated he has changed his mind since stating they believe there was no intent to purposefully burn the body?

Has DA Hudson charged Laurean with desecrating a body?

:shrug:

imoo

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I don't see that is not having a conscience. Everyone has the need for survival. He was trying to camouflage where he had placed her and go on as if nothing had happened to avoid detection.

I am still in agreement with Captain Sutherland when he told GVS that Laurean did not purposefully have the intent to burn the bodies and only put the bonfire there to disguise the grave. It is obvious they are still of that opinion as DA Hudson has not charged him with desecrating the body which he most certainly could do if he has evidence to prove that was his intent. I don't think any accelerants will be found in the soil samples, on bodies or clothing.

Men are not that attached to children before they are born. The throwing of the baby clothes into the pit sounds more like what an irate wife would do imo.

imoo [/*]

I don't remember CS saying that to Greta. I don't think a man has to have attachment to an unborn baby to have a conscious about killing the child and burning the body. It is still a human baby.

The fact Cesar is not charged with desecrating the body means nothing. He has been charged with the murder.

I can't see how anyone would think Cesar had no intent of burning the bodies. It defies logic as far as I'm concerned.

imo

[daniel green]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


but it could still have exceptions to that rule? [/*]

There can be, but that prescedent set by the USSC means that atty-client privilege does not end with death.

[daniel green]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


I don't believe anyone can have a conscious and murder. snipped

[/*]

Truly, I hate Robbie Ludwig and her ilk.

[daniel green]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


snipped
I have nothing to show me he didn't have a conscience. He did an awful thing and he must pay for it if proven BARD but I do think some people do instantly regret it. Whether he does or doesn't can only be known to him.

imo [/*]

Of course, GB, of course.

People do all sorts of things in the heat of the moment--including murder--and regret it the rest of their lives.

It is not logical to say that someone doesn't have a coscience or guilt because he/she did something horrible.

What is interesting, and what we know is the case, is that even good people, even very good people, do very bad things which they regret forever.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by daniel green


Truly, I hate Robbie Ludwig and her ilk. [/*]

Robbie Ludwig? I'm at a loss here.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


I don't remember CS saying that to Greta. I don't think a man has to have attachment to an unborn baby to have a conscious about killing the child and burning the body. It is still a human baby.

The fact Cesar is not charged with desecrating the body means nothing. He has been charged with the murder.

I can't see how anyone would think Cesar had no intent of burning the bodies. It defies logic as far as I'm concerned.

imo [/*]

Hey Squawk, I totally agree with your post. I think at first someone said he thought the burning was to disguise the grave, but later when the condition of the bodies were seen, I don't think that was the general consensus. IMO

[bkwits]

O/T but for all of you wonderful posters who have asked. My doc just called and said yesterday's xray showed my lungs are clear. YIPPEE. :patriot:

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by bkwits
O/T but for all of you wonderful posters who have asked. My doc just called and said yesterday's xray showed my lungs are clear. YIPPEE. :patriot: [/*]

:rose: :)

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


He could have used the paper and fencing but IMO, he wanted to get the fire going like yesterday....quickly, so in my thinking he did use an accerlerant. CAL most likely thought the burying/burning of Maria's remains would rid him completely of his 'problem'.

jmo

Now when my DH starts to burn something large...it's diesel fuel time... LOL. [/*]

We are right in the middle of huge oaks, pines and pecan trees. Talk about limbs falling all the time not even counting all the bad weather we have had. My hubby can have a huge burn pile raging in about 15 minutes and he uses no accelerants. lol

I am not sure what CL thought. If Christina was the one who wanted to do a bonfire for their parties then he certainly couldn't tell her no I wouldn't think.

It is horrific the way it ended up but I do agree with CS about this but if they change their minds and charge him with desecration of a body then at least I will know they have the evidence to prove intent when it comes to trial.

imoo

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by bkwits
O/T but for all of you wonderful posters who have asked. My doc just called and said yesterday's xray showed my lungs are clear. YIPPEE. :patriot: [/*]

WONDERFUL NEWS!

Glad you are so much better. :rose:

Here's what I was referring to in the Eric Miller murder case:

http://www.aoc.state.nc.us/www/public/sc/opinions/2003/303-02-1.htm

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by bkwits
O/T but for all of you wonderful posters who have asked. My doc just called and said yesterday's xray showed my lungs are clear. YIPPEE. :patriot: [/*]

That is wonderful news bkwits!:beer:

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


When has it been proven in error?

Have I missed something and CS has stated he has changed his mind since stating they believe there was no intent to purposefully burn the body?

Has DA Hudson charged Laurean with desecrating a body?

:shrug:

imoo [/*]

Probably the same time the diagnosis for Cesar and Maria came in would be my guess GB. It didn't happen from what I've seen.

People can voice their opinions, but it doesn't make it a fact just because it sounds reasonable whether it's Maria being bipolar, Cesar being a sociopath, Christina being the real murderer, Cesar dead (in the carpet for cryme), whether accelerant was used, or if the cover-up was a matter of convenience while covering his/their butts that created a burning effect.

We all have our opinions and I think sometimes we forget that's what they are at this point with so little factual information.

JMO tho. :patriot:

[Babes]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze
I have always thought CSL statement just seems *** backward.

QUOTE}On the morning of January 10, 2008, she and her husband rode to the office of Jacksonville Attorney Mark Raynor. While enroute, her husband asked her "If she was with him in this?" She told him, ""I do not know. Is there anything that you have not told me?"

I think by this time things were pretty intense and serious. I think they both knew it was the beginning of the end. I doubt he had ever taken time off from duty to see an attorney and had asked for three days to do it. I even wonder if he had even seen an attorney during the rape allegation period....that still remains murky to me.

IMO when someone asks another "if they are with them in "THIS" then "THIS" and the plan concerning "THIS" has been thoroughly discussed beforehand and his supposed comment would be more to seal the deal on the plan that had already been discussed.

imoo [/*][/QUOTE]

I agree with you ocean.

[Babes]

Is it a requirement for Xtina to undergo some psychological /medical testing before the Military put her to Active Duty again ? Did she have one? Isnt her parents narrated to the media how disoriented she is ?

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by bkwits
O/T but for all of you wonderful posters who have asked. My doc just called and said yesterday's xray showed my lungs are clear. YIPPEE. :patriot: [/*]

I am so happy for you, bkwits. :beer:

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


We are right in the middle of huge oaks, pines and pecan trees. Talk about limbs falling all the time not even counting all the bad weather we have had. My hubby can have a huge burn pile raging in about 15 minutes and he uses no accelerants. lol

I am not sure what CL thought. If Christina was the one who wanted to do a bonfire for their parties then he certainly couldn't tell her no I wouldn't think.

It is horrific the way it ended up but I do agree with CS about this but if they change their minds and charge him with desecration of a body then at least I will know they have the evidence to prove intent when it comes to trial.

imoo [/*]

You're lucky to have the oaks and pecan trees close by. Here we aren't as lucky. But my DH 'thinks' the only way to get a fire going is diesel fuel, just ask my girls, LOL. Heck he even does that when starting one in the fireplace. :D

Of course CAL wasn't going to tell CSL no to a bonfire(s). *Adding disclaimer here---we don't know whether CSL wanted one or not.*

And according to Dewey, additional charges can be brought...

jmo

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by Babes
Is it a requirement for Xtina to undergo some psychological /medical testing before the Military put her to Active Duty again ? Did she have one? Isnt her parents narrated to the media how disoriented she is ? [/*]

What? :confused: (your last question)

[Babes]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


What? :confused: (your last question) [/*]

What i mean is - since Xtina's parents said that Xtina is so disoriented /sad about the whole thing then - does she needs to undergo any psychological testing before going back to Active Duty in the military again?

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


I don't remember CS saying that to Greta. I don't think a man has to have attachment to an unborn baby to have a conscious about killing the child and burning the body. It is still a human baby.

The fact Cesar is not charged with desecrating the body means nothing. He has been charged with the murder.

I can't see how anyone would think Cesar had no intent of burning the bodies. It defies logic as far as I'm concerned.

imo [/*]

There have been many articles written where it talks about how differently men look at unborn children from the way the mother does. Men do not feel them move or grow inside of them. They don't nurture them while they are inside the womb. Only when they see the child do they feel a bond to the child. Then they can see , touch , hold them.... There is a difference imo.

I think when this event ignited not one thought was given about Gabriel. If he did this then his rage was all against Maria.

Well I did see CS say that and have not seen him change what he believed then and that was after they had all seen Maria and Gabriel.:shrug:

If it is so obvious then why after almost three months haven't they charged him with desecrating the bodies? They certainly don't need him back to go to a GJ in order to do so.:shrug:

imoo

[Babes]

LE should also ask Xtina on whose idea it is to have a BBQ party on their place :) - I would like to hear her answer :)

[bkwits]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


WONDERFUL NEWS!

Glad you are so much better. :rose:

Here's what I was referring to in the Eric Miller murder case:

http://www.aoc.state.nc.us/www/public/sc/opinions/2003/303-02-1.htm [/*]

Thank you for posting that. I did not follow that case at all. Am I understanding this correctly that that they ruled that the atty-client privilege after death does not apply but the spousal privilege after death does apply?

Interesting. mmmm

[daniel green]

Originally posted by bkwits


snipped

but the spousal privilege after death does apply?

Interesting. mmmm [/*]


???

[bkwits]

Originally posted by daniel green



??? [/*]

That's what I understood, but I hadn't followed that case so it was a lot to take in. IMO

Read the link that Nuttin posted on the Eric Miller case and see what you think.

[caejde]

Originally posted by bkwits
O/T but for all of you wonderful posters who have asked. My doc just called and said yesterday's xray showed my lungs are clear. YIPPEE. :patriot: [/*]

WooHoo!! Glad you're better!

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by daniel green



??? [/*]

Again, who is Robbie Ludwig you keep bringing up?

Never mind, I know.

[caejde]

Originally posted by Babes


What i mean is - since Xtina's parents said that Xtina is so disoriented /sad about the whole thing then - does she needs to undergo any psychological testing before going back to Active Duty in the military again? [/*]

I doubt it. But I'm sure she is being watched and at anytime she can request to talk to a chaplain or even go to counseling.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by caejde


I doubt it. But I'm sure she is being watched and at anytime she can request to talk to a chaplain or even go to counseling. [/*]

I think it is a good possibly both her and her child have been in counseling for a long time probably ever since this happened. jmo

[daniel green]

Originally posted by bkwits


That's what I understood, but I hadn't followed that case so it was a lot to take in. IMO

Read the link that Nuttin posted on the Eric Miller case and see what you think. [/*]

Just re-read to make sure, but the court did not address the spouse privilege saying it was moot.

[caejde]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


I think it is a good possibly both her and her child have been in counseling for a long time probably ever since this happened. jmo [/*]

i can hope that since the baby is still so young that it won't affect her too much right now. But as she gets older, I hope she gets counseling.

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by nelkirk


But according to the affidavit she gave a specific date of the morining of January 10th as they are [ENROUTE he told me...then she itemizes what he allegedly told her... It is written up on the affidavit as one complete incident.

So either the statement that she is going to have to signis wrong, OR the affidavit is wrong OR she isn't telling the whole truth. [/*]

I still don't understand, nelkirk. Did you answer this morning when you were asked what specific statement of hers would be wrong?

[bkwits]

Originally posted by daniel green


Just re-read to make sure, but the court did not address the spouse privilege saying it was moot. [/*]

Moot for this specific hearing but can be brought up again. IMO

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by nelkirk


But according to the affidavit she gave a specific date of the morining of January 10th as they are [ENROUTE he told me...then she itemizes what he allegedly told her... It is written up on the affidavit as one complete incident.

So either the statement that she is going to have to signis wrong, OR the affidavit is wrong OR she isn't telling the whole truth.

ETA why not just say that "my husband told me...." and not give a specific time and date... [/*]

Nelkirk - CL had gone to attorneys on a couple of days before Thursday also - so the attorney could have told him that on those days.

JMO

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


Nelkirk - CL had gone to attorneys on a couple of days before Thursday also - so the attorney could have told him that on those days.

JMO [/*]

So why bother going to yet another attorney on 1/10? Was he hoping for a different result?

(Isn't that the definition of insanity?)

:D

BTW, do we have any proof that he (or they) actually met with Raynor on the 10th? (Not specifically asking you gp, just anybody with any knowledge of this.)

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


So why bother going to yet another attorney on 1/10? Was he hoping for a different result?

(Isn't that the definition of insanity?)

:D

BTW, do we have any proof that he (or they) actually met with Raynor on the 10th? (Not specifically asking you gp, just anybody with any knowledge of this.) [/*]

IIRC, we talked about this before and people had different opinions as to why so many attorneys. I think he went to one... didn't like the answer he got... went to another, etc.

JMO

[gaelicpeas]

oops, forgot to add. I am assuming he saw Raynor as Raynor was in the audience at Brown's PC on Jan 10.

JMO

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


So why bother going to yet another attorney on 1/10? Was he hoping for a different result?

(Isn't that the definition of insanity?)

:D

BTW, do we have any proof that he (or they) actually met with Raynor on the 10th? (Not specifically asking you gp, just anybody with any knowledge of this.) [/*]

From Sheriff Brown when interviewed:

GRACE: When you learned the suspect`s name on January 7, what did you do?

BROWN: I knew about the suspect`s name on January the 7th, and we tried to get the suspect to give us a call. However, there was other -- another person that we needed -- that we needed that was in California. We -- I went personally to the highest command on the base, got total cooperation. I got the Marine back from California, who was a witness that needed to answer some questions. And I got Mr. Laurean at least giving us a promise to come talk to us.

However, that promise -- hold on, hold on, hold on. That promise fell through on Thursday at 4:00 o`clock, when we got a call from three of the most respectful, good attorneys in this county telling us that Laurean was not going to talk to us.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0801/14/ng.01.html

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny


From Sheriff Brown when interviewed:

GRACE: When you learned the suspect`s name on January 7, what did you do?

BROWN: I knew about the suspect`s name on January the 7th, and we tried to get the suspect to give us a call. However, there was other -- another person that we needed -- that we needed that was in California. We -- I went personally to the highest command on the base, got total cooperation. I got the Marine back from California, who was a witness that needed to answer some questions. And I got Mr. Laurean at least giving us a promise to come talk to us.

However, that promise -- hold on, hold on, hold on. That promise fell through on Thursday at 4:00 o`clock, when we got a call from three of the most respectful, good attorneys in this county telling us that Laurean was not going to talk to us.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0801/14/ng.01.html [/*]

Thanks, Lynn.... there is another one also - I believe the Jan 11 PC where Brown made reference to CL's lawyer being at the PC the day before and something about he had to be careful what he said or something.

JMO

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
oops, forgot to add. I am assuming he saw Raynor as Raynor was in the audience at Brown's PC on Jan 10.

JMO [/*]

Actually it was Paul Castle who was in attendance at the PC on 1/10.

jmo

[daniel green]

Originally posted by bkwits


Moot for this specific hearing but can be brought up again. IMO [/*]

This was not a hearing.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by daniel green


This was not a hearing. [/*]

Whatever, it was an appeal wasn't it? You've been following the case, I haven'it so I'm sure you must be correct. IMO

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


Thanks, Lynn.... there is another one also - I believe the Jan 11 PC where Brown made reference to CL's lawyer being at the PC the day before and something about he had to be careful what he said or something.

JMO [/*]

Yes, and in the video there is someone standing to Sheriff Brown's right during the PC, but I don't know if that is one of the defense attorneys that he is referring.

BROWN: I'm glad you mentioned that, sir, because Mr. Lauren's (ph) attorney was standing there yesterday when you all were trying to get me to answer questions that would expose where we were going. He was standing there listening while you all were listening.

We can't talk to somebody because their attorney won't let us talk to him. So don't come hollering at me. You asked me a question. His attorney would not let us talk to him. He has said (INAUDIBLE) wants to talk to us, but he did not show up.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0801/11/ywt.01.html

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Actually it was Paul Castle who was in attendance at the PC on 1/10.

jmo [/*]

Oh ok, thanks, Nuttin.. not sure why I thought it was Raynor.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


So why bother going to yet another attorney on 1/10? Was he hoping for a different result?

(Isn't that the definition of insanity?)

:D

BTW, do we have any proof that he (or they) actually met with Raynor on the 10th? (Not specifically asking you gp, just anybody with any knowledge of this.) [/*]

Does anyone know if the attorneys were in practice together?

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny


Yes, and in the video there is someone standing to Sheriff Brown's right during the PC, but I don't know if that is one of the defense attorneys that he is referring.

BROWN: I'm glad you mentioned that, sir, because Mr. Lauren's (ph) attorney was standing there yesterday when you all were trying to get me to answer questions that would expose where we were going. He was standing there listening while you all were listening.

We can't talk to somebody because their attorney won't let us talk to him. So don't come hollering at me. You asked me a question. His attorney would not let us talk to him. He has said (INAUDIBLE) wants to talk to us, but he did not show up.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0801/11/ywt.01.html [/*]

Thanks, Lynn...

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


Oh ok, thanks, Nuttin.. not sure why I thought it was Raynor. [/*]

It's okay...I had originally been told it was Raynor but now I know otherwise.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by bkwits


Does anyone know if the attorneys were in practice together? [/*]

No idea... Raynor and Castle have the same office address, so I assume they do. Bailey's address looks like it is a couple of doors down across the street.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


No idea... Raynor and Castle have the same office address, so I assume they do. Bailey's address looks like it is a couple of doors down across the street. [/*]

Maybe he was referred to another attorney who handles these cases. Sometimes it is difficult to find the right attorney for a specific need. IMO

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by nelkirk
Sorry it is taking so long for me to reply, we are doing homeschool in the same room as the computer and it is distracting to say the least... [/*]

Not a problem. I have to print your post out and think about it.

[mini-me]

Originally posted by bkwits


Maybe he was referred to another attorney who handles these cases. Sometimes it is difficult to find the right attorney for a specific need. IMO [/*]Cal would not be talking to any lawyers about rape at that time because she was already buried in the back yard. He knew that cause he put it there. Did he in fact actually go to the first three lawyers.?

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by nelkirk
To be more specific, I will quote from the affidavit dated:



She has stated that he has retained legal counsel, but no mention that he has spoken to this legal cousel...

Her next statement is:



So as per her statement that he had retained legal counsel, not that he had spoken with his attorney. Then she skips right over to January 10th and the trip to the attorney's office.

She locked herself into the specific date of January 10th...ENROUTE to the the attorney's office...

How can a conversation on a specific date and at a specific time contain something that has not yet happened?

And if CL only "buried the body" why would he be facing the death penalty on January 10th ENROUTE TO the attorney's office..she specifically stated to the LE (according to the affidavit) that "buried in a wooded area..." And that is verified because that is where LE was searching for the body on January 11th.

Either the discussion did not happen until AFTER the attorney's office meeting where he was told he faced the death penalty on January 10th which would be the a FALSE statement on her part.

According to her CL only buried the body..that is NOT a capital crime. And yet she still maintains that he insists that he only buried the body.

Either he told h er that he had committed murder and was facing the DP OR he only buried the body which would not be a DP offense.

Both statement can not be true.

And yes he could have spoken to other attorneys but according to CSL "her husband told her" that he had only buried the body in a wooded area...

QUOTE]

(7). Maria produced a knife and killed herself by slitting her throat.

(8.) He became scared, took her body to a wooded area adjacent to his residence and buried her.

(9.) He obtained legal counsel and explained the facts to them.

(10.) He was told that he was facing the death penalty.



How much time elapsed between #8 and #9?

And again, if #9 was told to him by an attorney prior to going to Raynor's office, why waste time and money going to Raynor just to have him tell him the same thing (IF he told the prior attorney the real facts about what happened)?

Something's not adding up.....almost like she dropped him off at the bus station instead of both of them going to Raynor's office? (And again, why is she with him at this particular appointment when she never mentions attending the other meetings with attorneys? What was so different about this one?)

[gaelicpeas]

Froom the timeline below, we know he requested time off on Tues, Wed, Thurs, and Fri to see his lawyers. Whether he actually saw them or not, we don't know. We also don't know whether CSL accompanied him on any of the visits other than the one to Raynor's office on Jan 10.

http://www.newbernsj.com/news/lauterbach_38149___article.html/lcpl_cpl.html

On Tuesday, January 8, 2008….. Cpl Laurean requests time during the workday to meet with his civilian attorneys at their office. His OIC approves the request.

On Wednesday, January 9, 2008, Cpl Laurean is out of the office all day with his civilian attorneys but maintains phone contact with OIC. Cpl Laurean requests additional time off to meet with his civilian attorneys. His OIC approves the request.

On Thursday, January 10th, 2008….Cpl Laurean is out of his work section all day but maintains phone contact with his OIC throughout the day. That evening, Cpl Laurean informs his OIC of a possible appointment with his attorneys on Friday morning.

On Friday, January 11, 2008, Cpl Laurean fails to report to work and fails to call his OIC.


JMO

[gaelicpeas]

I have always wondered what in the world he could be discussing for so long with these attorneys. As I said before, I have never spent longer than a half-hour with an attorney - although granted, my visit was for a neighbor upset with my dog barking, not for murder!

JMO

[Squawk Box]

This goes back again to CS, in a press conference while being asked questions about Christina and her waiting 24 hours to contact police, IIRC, he said Christina didn't know until the evening and that made it 12 to 16 hours not 24 hours. Paraphrasing.

That means to me she wasn't told everything on the morning of the 10th. I must say I have wondered about this for a long time.

JMO don't have a link.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


How much time elapsed between #8 and #9?

And again, if #9 was told to him by an attorney prior to going to Raynor's office, why waste time and money going to Raynor just to have him tell him the same thing (IF he told the prior attorney the real facts about what happened)?

Something's not adding up.....almost like she dropped him off at the bus station instead of both of them going to Raynor's office? (And again, why is she with him at this particular appointment when she never mentions attending the other meetings with attorneys? What was so different about this one?) [/*]

If he told the first lawyer that he actually killed Maria (which I doubt), he could have gotten a different lawyer so that lawyer could better defend him without knowing the truth (I hope that makes sense).

But here's what I think may have happened. He was supposedly going to see the lawyers on the rape charge. So he went to the first lawyer and told him something like, "The woman who I said I raped her came to my house acting all crazy, and killed herself. I panicked and buried her in the woods."

He asks he atty what could happen to him if LE doesn't believe him. The atty mentions the possibility of a trial and the DP. Say this lawyer is not equiped to handle potential DP cases, so he sends him to another lawyer.

He is panicked and tell Ctina about this on the way to the atty on 1/10. Just speculating.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by mini-me
Cal would not be talking to any lawyers about rape at that time because she was already buried in the back yard. He knew that cause he put it there. Did he in fact actually go to the first three lawyers.? [/*]

I don't know. I'm trying to figure that out.

[scillak]

Originally posted by bkwits


If he told the first lawyer that he actually killed Maria (which I doubt), he could have gotten a different lawyer so that lawyer could better defend him without knowing the truth (I hope that makes sense).

But here's what I think may have happened. He was supposedly going to see the lawyers on the rape charge. So he went to the first lawyer and told him something like, "The woman who I said I raped her came to my house acting all crazy, and killed herself. I panicked and buried her in the woods."

He asks he atty what could happen to him if LE doesn't believe him. The atty mentions the possibility of a trial and the DP. Say this lawyer is not equiped to handle potential DP cases, so he sends him to another lawyer.

He is panicked and tell Ctina about this on the way to the atty on 1/10. Just speculating. [/*]

That makes sense as far as how the affidavit reads. So Cesar may have already been to an attorney and so could tell Christina about it. I wonder if the trip on the 10th might have been to discuss how to keep Christina out of it, or ask other "what if's" of the attorney.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by bkwits


If he told the first lawyer that he actually killed Maria (which I doubt), he could have gotten a different lawyer so that lawyer could better defend him without knowing the truth (I hope that makes sense).

But here's what I think may have happened. He was supposedly going to see the lawyers on the rape charge. So he went to the first lawyer and told him something like, "The woman who I said I raped her came to my house acting all crazy, and killed herself. I panicked and buried her in the woods."

He asks he atty what could happen to him if LE doesn't believe him. The atty mentions the possibility of a trial and the DP. Say this lawyer is not equiped to handle potential DP cases, so he sends him to another lawyer.

He is panicked and tell Ctina about this on the way to the atty on 1/10. Just speculating. [/*]

Thank you!

Only thing is, he was never charged with rape so I can't see waiting that long to see an attorney about an "allegation". I can see that happening sooner, like around mid May.

And I can see the visiting with other attorneys in trying to explain what happened to Maria.

So he doesn't panic until on the way to visit with the 3rd attorney?

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
Froom the timeline below, we know he requested time off on Tues, Wed, Thurs, and Fri to see his lawyers. Whether he actually saw them or not, we don't know. We also don't know whether CSL accompanied him on any of the visits other than the one to Raynor's office on Jan 10.

http://www.newbernsj.com/news/lauterbach_38149___article.html/lcpl_cpl.html

On Tuesday, January 8, 2008….. Cpl Laurean requests time during the workday to meet with his civilian attorneys at their office. His OIC approves the request.

On Wednesday, January 9, 2008, Cpl Laurean is out of the office all day with his civilian attorneys but maintains phone contact with OIC. Cpl Laurean requests additional time off to meet with his civilian attorneys. His OIC approves the request.

On Thursday, January 10th, 2008….Cpl Laurean is out of his work section all day but maintains phone contact with his OIC throughout the day. That evening, Cpl Laurean informs his OIC of a possible appointment with his attorneys on Friday morning.

On Friday, January 11, 2008, Cpl Laurean fails to report to work and fails to call his OIC.


JMO [/*]

When he told his OIC of a possible appointment with his attorneys on Friday morning, I believe he had decided to leave early Friday. I believe he told Christina he would go with her to the attorneys and they would all go together to LE to turn himself in. That is why Christina waited to go to police. JMO

[daniel green]

Originally posted by bkwits


If he told the first lawyer that he actually killed Maria (which I doubt), he could have gotten a different lawyer so that lawyer could better defend him without knowing the truth (I hope that makes sense).

snipped. [/*]

Why wouldn't he tel his lawyer(s) the truth? Even if he had killed ML? :confused:

[bkwits]

Originally posted by scillak


That makes sense as far as how the affidavit reads. So Cesar may have already been to an attorney and so could tell Christina about it. I wonder if the trip on the 10th might have been to discuss how to keep Christina out of it, or ask other "what if's" of the attorney. [/*]


I thought myself that the atty might have counseled him on how to keep Ctina in the clear by writing the notes. I posted that here a while back and someone who seemed knowledgeable said the atty couldn't ethically do that.

I asked my atty son last week, and he also said absolutely not. So I guess I am out voted.

I also wonder if he actually went to attorneys those 3 days. :confused:

[bkwits]

Originally posted by daniel green


Why wouldn't he tel his lawyer(s) the truth? Even if he had killed ML? :confused: [/*]

I hinders the defense unless he is going to plead guilty.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


Thank you!

Only thing is, he was never charged with rape so I can't see waiting that long to see an attorney about an "allegation". I can see that happening sooner, like around mid May.

And I can see the visiting with other attorneys in trying to explain what happened to Maria.

So he doesn't panic until on the way to visit with the 3rd attorney? [/*]

As I understand it, and I'm fuzzy on this, he had the attorneys to defend against the rape allegation. I don't know why he had civilian attorneys, but the meetings were supposedly for the Article 32 hearing, I believe. Didn't he also have an NCIS attorney. I'm getting dizzy. :shrug:

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by bkwits



I thought myself that the atty might have counseled him on how to keep Ctina in the clear by writing the notes. I posted that here a while back and someone who seemed knowledgeable said the atty couldn't ethically do that.

I asked my atty son last week, and he also said absolutely not. So I guess I am out voted.

I also wonder if he actually went to attorneys those 3 days. :confused: [/*]

I believe he may have been to see one attorney. That attorney may have referred him to Raynor?

:shrug:

But I don't think he could have mentioned Christina's name unless there was a reason to, like what part (if any) she played in it. Otherwise, there's no reason to bring her up. The police weren't looking to talk to her, just Cesar.

Although, in hindsight I wonder if maybe they should have talked to Christina earlier than when she went to them? Or wish they had?

[mini-me]

Originally posted by bkwits



I thought myself that the atty might have counseled him on how to keep Ctina in the clear by writing the notes. I posted that here a while back and someone who seemed knowledgeable said the atty couldn't ethically do that.

I asked my atty son last week, and he also said absolutely not. So I guess I am out voted.

I also wonder if he actually went to attorneys those 3 days. :confused: [/*]LE wanted to talk to him that's why he went. But it wouldn't take three days to be told you have to talk to LE.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by mini-me
LE wanted to talk to him that's why he went. But it wouldn't take three days to be told you have to talk to LE. [/*]

Didn't he hide behind his lawyers to keep from talking to LE?

[mini-me]

Originally posted by bkwits


Didn't he hide behind his lawyers to keep from talking to LE? [/*]Yes he did. You would think CSL would have been all over him wanting know what the lawyer said. Why she didn't ask why he even needed one. MOO she knew exactly what was going on. In that three days propably use most of the time to make plans to take off.

[caejde]

Originally posted by bkwits


Didn't he hide behind his lawyers to keep from talking to LE? [/*]

I believe so because the sheriff said his attorney's would not let Cesar speak with authorities.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


I believe he may have been to see one attorney. That attorney may have referred him to Raynor?

:shrug:

But I don't think he could have mentioned Christina's name unless there was a reason to, like what part (if any) she played in it. Otherwise, there's no reason to bring her up. The police weren't looking to talk to her, just Cesar.

Although, in hindsight I wonder if maybe they should have talked to Christina earlier than when she went to them? Or wish they had? [/*]

Oh I'll bet they wish they had spoken to her before. :o

I believe Christina could have dictated the letters he wrote. IMO they had three weeks to be thinking about it and how it would be handled as I am of the belief she knew too and as Jan Powell said "in for a penny, in for a pound" IMO.

If she would spend one night with a man she knew buried a woman he was accused of raping out back, then my money says she would spend many nights. Again, JMO.

I think they are both in the after-workings up to their eyeballs. Cesar got the dirty work since he gotl them into the mess to start with IMO.

ALL MY OPINION based on months of reading. :o

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by mini-me
Yes he did. You would think CSL would have been all over him wanting know what the lawyer said. Why she didn't ask why he even needed one. MOO she knew exactly what was going on. In that three days propably use most of the time to make plans to take off. [/*]

Christina thought he was seeing a lawyer for the rape and also because Maria was missing. Not because of a murder at that time.:shrug:

Christina didn't know about the story of Maria killing herself and he just buried her in the woods until Thursday evening and he left Friday morning.

JMO

[daniel green]

Originally posted by bkwits


I hinders the defense unless he is going to plead guilty. [/*]

No way.

Not in any way.

[daniel green]

Originally posted by bkwits


Didn't he hide behind his lawyers to keep from talking to LE? [/*]

Hide behind lawyers=5th Ammend rights

:confused:

[daniel green]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


Christina thought he was seeing a lawyer for the rape and also because Maria was missing. Not because of a murder at that time.:shrug:

Christina didn't know about the story of Maria killing herself and he just buried her in the woods until Thursday evening and he left Friday morning.

JMO [/*]

Frankly, we don't know one thing about what Mrs L thought or thinks, knows or knew and certainly not when.

[scillak]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


Christina thought he was seeing a lawyer for the rape and also because Maria was missing. Not because of a murder at that time.:shrug:

Christina didn't know about the story of Maria killing herself and he just buried her in the woods until Thursday evening and he left Friday morning.

JMO [/*]

But according to the affadavit, Christina said that Cesar told her those things while they were on their way to see an attorney - in the morning on Thursday.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


Oh I'll bet they wish they had spoken to her before. :o

I believe Christina could have dictated the letters he wrote. IMO they had three weeks to be thinking about it and how it would be handled as I am of the belief she knew too and as Jan Powell said "in for a penny, in for a pound" IMO.

If she would spend one night with a man she knew buried a woman he was accused of raping out back, then my money says she would spend many nights. Again, JMO.

I think they are both in the after-workings up to their eyeballs. Cesar got the dirty work since he gotl them into the mess to start with IMO.

ALL MY OPINION based on months of reading. :o [/*]

Awww Candy, don't hold back, tell us how you really feel! LOL

[caejde]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


Christina thought he was seeing a lawyer for the rape and also because Maria was missing. Not because of a murder at that time.:shrug:

Christina didn't know about the story of Maria killing herself and he just buried her in the woods until Thursday evening and he left Friday morning.

JMO [/*]

According to what she told the detectives, he told her Thursday morning....not evening. And it was on the way to the lawyer's office that morning that he told her everything.

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by scillak


But according to the affadavit, Christina said that Cesar told her those things while they were on their way to see an attorney - in the morning on Thursday. [/*]

I'm going to have to read back VERY well nelkirk's original post about this. I think this is up to interpretation but I am not going to say anymore till later tonight, when I get home and can give this my full attention.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


Christina thought he was seeing a lawyer for the rape and also because Maria was missing. Not because of a murder at that time.:shrug:

Christina didn't know about the story of Maria killing herself and he just buried her in the woods until Thursday evening and he left Friday morning.

JMO [/*]

Except that her affidavit says she found out (allegedly) on Thursday MORNING.

[caejde]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


Except that her affidavit says she found out (allegedly) on Thursday MORNING. [/*]

Would she have to sign the affadavit? Because if it's incorrect and she signed it, it was her responsibility to make sure it was correct before signing anything. But my opinion is it's correct and it was in the morning that she found out.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by daniel green


No way.

Not in any way. [/*]

I disagree.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by scillak


But according to the affadavit, Christina said that Cesar told her those things while they were on their way to see an attorney - in the morning on Thursday. [/*]

I don't think it is clear exactly what he told her on the way to the attorney. JMO

I think she found most of it out on Thursday evening. Just speculation.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by daniel green


Hide behind lawyers=5th Ammend rights

:confused: [/*]

As far as I know he didn't invoke his 5th Ammend rights. He wasn't a suspect at that point. He just didn't want to talk to LE and said his lawyers told him not to.

[mini-me]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


Christina thought he was seeing a lawyer for the rape and also because Maria was missing. Not because of a murder at that time.:shrug:

Christina didn't know about the story of Maria killing herself and he just buried her in the woods until Thursday evening and he left Friday morning.

JMO [/*]Would you really expect CSL to go to LE and say I've known all along what CAL did. She would be implicating herself. She needs a defence. I didn't know nothing. Why would you believe that she would be the only one telling the truth?

[daniel green]

Originally posted by bkwits


As far as I know he didn't invoke his 5th Ammend rights. He wasn't a suspect at that point. He just didn't want to talk to LE and said his lawyers told him not to. [/*]

Not talking IS his 5th am rights.

[daniel green]

Originally posted by bkwits


I disagree. [/*]

OK. But having worked in the court system my whole adult life and being privy to atty/juvenile conversations all the time--let me tell you that most defense attys want to know all the details.

You just cannot put your client up to LIE. Or any other witness that you know will lie.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by daniel green


Not talking IS his 5th am rights. [/*]

Not exactly as in this instance.IMO

[Lynn Gweeny]

Just starting to listen to the P.C. given by Capt. Sutherland on January 18, 2008, and this is what he says early in the video about the subject of Christina being told by Cesar about the murder, their visits with the attorneys, and the neighbors reporting not seeing or seeing Laurean prior or after the 4:00 a.m. timeframe:

@3:40 in the video interview with Capt. Sutherland:

Question about Christina being told by Cesar about the murder:

”Our best evidence right now is that she received information very, very late in the day on Thursday and that she discovered that her husband was gone around 4 a.m. on Friday morning, that she began reaching out to people that she needed to get advice from, that she was able to speak to these people, that some people accompanied her to our office mid morning on Friday morning, and that she gave us that information early on Friday morning which helped to break this case wide open.”

Question about comments made by neighbors seeing Laurean leaving earlier or later in the day on that Friday:

”We understand that there are a lot of comments being made by neighbors, and there are interviews being done with neighbors both by law enforcement and by the media, and we believe that the information that we have and that we are acting on is that he left around 4 a.m. and we are using that to establish our timeline. If we receive credible information that he left earlier or later, then we would have to adjust our timeline accordingly.”

Question about meeting with attorneys:

”We believe that they did have a meeting with people and that they may have had a meeting on Thursday, and that after the meeting, that she (Christina) may have received additional information. We appreciate the fact that she came here on Friday and provided that information to us. So, certainly we are examining all of that as we try to establish a timeline. And, their exact whereabouts on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday are information sensitive to the investigation”.

http://www.jdnews.com/video/index.php?bcpid=1156002469&bclid=1155200144&bctid=1382896044

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


Except that her affidavit says she found out (allegedly) on Thursday MORNING. [/*]


What affidavit? I'm a little confused.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by daniel green


OK. But having worked in the court system my whole adult life and being privy to atty/juvenile conversations all the time--let me tell you that most defense attys want to know all the details.

You just cannot put your client up to LIE. Or any other witness that you know will lie. [/*]

Of course an atty can't suborn perjury, IF he knows it is perjury.

We'll just have to disagree on the rest.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny
Just starting to listen to the P.C. given by Capt. Sutherland on January 18, 2008, and this is what he says early in the video about the subject of Christina being told by Cesar about the murder, their visits with the attorneys, and the neighbors reporting not seeing or seeing Laurean prior or after the 4:00 a.m. timeframe:

@3:40 in the video interview with Capt. Sutherland:

Question about Christina being told by Cesar about the murder:

”Our best evidence right now is that she received information very, very late in the day on Thursday and that she discovered that her husband was gone around 4 a.m. on Friday morning, that she began reaching out to people that she needed to get advice from, that she was able to speak to these people, that some people accompanied her to our office mid morning on Friday morning, and that she gave us that information early on Friday morning which helped to break this case wide open.”

Question about comments made by neighbors seeing Laurean leaving earlier or later in the day on that Friday:

”We understand that there are a lot of comments being made by neighbors, and there are interviews being done with neighbors both by law enforcement and by the media, and we believe that the information that we have and that we are acting on is that he left around 4 a.m. and we are using that to establish our timeline. If we receive credible information that he left earlier or later, then we would have to adjust our timeline accordingly.”

Question about meeting with attorneys:

”We believe that they did have a meeting with people and that they may have had a meeting on Thursday, and that after the meeting, that she (Christina) may have received additional information. We appreciate the fact that she came here on Friday and provided that information to us. So, certainly we are examining all of that as we try to establish a timeline. And, their exact whereabouts on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday are information sensitive to the investigation”.

http://www.jdnews.com/video/index.php?bcpid=1156002469&bclid=1155200144&bctid=1382896044 [/*]


Thanks Lynn:rose:

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by mini-me
Would you really expect CSL to go to LE and say I've known all along what CAL did. She would be implicating herself. She needs a defence. I didn't know nothing. Why would you believe that she would be the only one telling the truth? [/*]


Christina is not charged with a crime and needs no defense. jmo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Squawk Box



Christina is not charged with a crime and needs no defense. jmo [/*]

Then why does she have a criminal defense lawyer and CS said that if any communications were held it would be with him there or through her attorney?:shrug:

He is the one that complained about SB, CS and Greta coming on the property. I never read or heard CLs lawyer make any statements about it at all one way or the other.

imo

[SavannahStar]

GB, you surprise me with that post! Even if Christina is innocent as a newborn babe, she needs an attorney! That is just SOP these days, for anyone even loosely related to a criminal case.

[caejde]

So from the info Lynn posted upthread, Christina found out sometime in the evening Thursday. Wonder why she says she found out that morning...more so why did she sign that affidavit when it was incorrect?

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Then why does she have a criminal defense lawyer and CS said that if any communications were held it would be with him there or through her attorney?:shrug:

He is the one that complained about SB, CS and Greta coming on the property. I never read or heard CLs lawyer make any statements about it at all one way or the other.

imo [/*]

Not because she is charged with anything, but because she is dealing with police and I don't blame her one bit. She has a right to an attorney and a right to keep people off of her property.

According to the link Lynn provided, CS said Christina learned of the death late Thursday evening.

jmo

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny
Just starting to listen to the P.C. given by Capt. Sutherland on January 18, 2008, and this is what he says early in the video about the subject of Christina being told by Cesar about the murder, their visits with the attorneys, and the neighbors reporting not seeing or seeing Laurean prior or after the 4:00 a.m. timeframe:

@3:40 in the video interview with Capt. Sutherland:

Question about Christina being told by Cesar about the murder:

”Our best evidence right now is that she received information very, very late in the day on Thursday and that she discovered that her husband was gone around 4 a.m. on Friday morning, that she began reaching out to people that she needed to get advice from, that she was able to speak to these people, that some people accompanied her to our office mid morning on Friday morning, and that she gave us that information early on Friday morning which helped to break this case wide open.”

Question about comments made by neighbors seeing Laurean leaving earlier or later in the day on that Friday:

”We understand that there are a lot of comments being made by neighbors, and there are interviews being done with neighbors both by law enforcement and by the media, and we believe that the information that we have and that we are acting on is that he left around 4 a.m. and we are using that to establish our timeline. If we receive credible information that he left earlier or later, then we would have to adjust our timeline accordingly.”

Question about meeting with attorneys:

”We believe that they did have a meeting with people and that they may have had a meeting on Thursday, and that after the meeting, that she (Christina) may have received additional information. We appreciate the fact that she came here on Friday and provided that information to us. So, certainly we are examining all of that as we try to establish a timeline. And, their exact whereabouts on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday are information sensitive to the investigation”.

http://www.jdnews.com/video/index.php?bcpid=1156002469&bclid=1155200144&bctid=1382896044 [/*]

"they MAY have had a meeting on Thursday"

"THEIR exact whereabouts on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday are information sensitive to the investigation"

Interesting.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by SavannahStar
GB, you surprise me with that post! Even if Christina is innocent as a newborn babe, she needs an attorney! That is just SOP these days, for anyone even loosely related to a criminal case. [/*]

I was just replying to the poster that stated "she needs no defense." I think Christina believes she does and yes she has every right to obtain one. I certainly would.

imoo

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by caejde
So from the info Lynn posted upthread, Christina found out sometime in the evening Thursday. Wonder why she says she found out that morning...more so why did she sign that affidavit when it was incorrect? [/*]

I have no idea of any affidavit she signed. Can you tell me what affidavit that was?

[caejde]

Originally posted by SavannahStar
GB, you surprise me with that post! Even if Christina is innocent as a newborn babe, she needs an attorney! That is just SOP these days, for anyone even loosely related to a criminal case. [/*]

Even if she is totally innocent? If she's innocent, then why have an attorney present? She has nothing to hide. She's not even related to the criminal case because she had nothing to do with it. I mean I guess I can see why it would be important as well...just to make sure your rights are being protected...but I don't know.

[caejde]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


I have no idea of any affidavit she signed. Can you tell me what affidavit that was? [/*]

The stuff she told to the detective. She would have had to sign that is what she said right?

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by caejde
So from the info Lynn posted upthread, Christina found out sometime in the evening Thursday. Wonder why she says she found out that morning...more so why did she sign that affidavit when it was incorrect? [/*]

Maybe shock of hearing her husband tell her the information that morning and then later on in the evening after the shock wore off she wanted or demanded more answers?

There's no telling caejde, no telling at all.

jmo

[mini-me]

Originally posted by Squawk Box



Christina is not charged with a crime and needs no defense. jmo [/*]I know she isn't charged but who's to say she won't be. I don't think she is telling the truth in mo. She has removed herself from any invovlment by the statements she did make. Maybe she was advised by someone to only talk about what CAL did. Alot went on in that house and she wants Le to believe she knew nothing. MO she knew what happened and helped with the cleanup etc. JMO

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I was just replying to the poster that stated "she needs no defense." I think Christina believes she does and yes she has every right to obtain one. I certainly would.

imoo [/*]


That isn't exactly what I said GB. I said she hasn't been charged so she needs no defense.

She has a right to an attorney and I certainly don't blame her for that. She does not need an attorney for a defense of a crime is what I meant since there are no charges. jmo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


"they MAY have had a meeting on Thursday"

"THEIR exact whereabouts on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday are information sensitive to the investigation"

Interesting. [/*]

Hmmm what in the heck does that mean?

Where were they, I wonder?

imoo

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by caejde


The stuff she told to the detective. She would have had to sign that is what she said right? [/*]

No, not a search warrant.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Maybe shock of hearing her husband tell her the information that morning and then later on in the evening after the shock wore off she wanted or demanded more answers?

There's no telling caejde, no telling at all.

jmo [/*]

I wonder when he took her to the backyard to show where Maria supposedly committed suicide. It had to be after the ride to the lawyers office.

imoo

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


Awww Candy, don't hold back, tell us how you really feel! LOL [/*]

I've never been one to believe "WOMEN don't LIE" just because I am a woman cryme and you know that. I question her motives as much or more than Cesar, after all according to Maria, she wanted to know why Maria was doing this to them IIRC. She had the nerve to confront Maria once about her family, why is it so hard to believe she could have found Maria at her home and came unglued? It's not for me.

So, I am thinking she was in it all the way up to her eyeballs. No way you wouldn't notice anything while you were doing laundry, not to mention the idea that little things were probably left haphazardly out of place given that I believe this was a crime of passion.

While I am not totally sold on Christina doing the deed, it is certainly a possibility and that Cesar was to take the blame since he brought them down with this mess. They would have spent the better part of three weeks getting things in order and making plans which would explain the letters. Also, the mail IMO was breadcrumbs to let her know he had made certain landmarks they talked about before. I'll bet they made plans to meet up at some point but never thought about the idea of the suicide not flying and the civillian authorities retaining the right to prosecute when the initial plans were made during those three weeks.

IF not the actual perp, I honestly believe she was working side by side with him for the three weeks following. I don't believe for a second she walked around blindfolded and never asked about the missing pregnant woman who accused her husband of rape. NOW THAT truly does defy logic IMO.

ALL JMO again based on reading for months. :shrug:

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I wonder when he took her to the backyard to show where Maria supposedly committed suicide. It had to be after the ride to the lawyers office.

imoo [/*]

GB, he told her he buried Maria in the woods. I doubt he took her to the back yard for anything.
jmo

[caejde]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


GB, he told her he buried Maria in the woods. I doubt he took her to the back yard for anything.
jmo [/*]

Well when Greta was interviewing the sheriff and Capt Sutherland, the sheriff said that the only time he talked to Christina was when she was sitting in the car the day they were searching the house. He had her come over to show the investigators where Cesar said Maria killed herself...and she showed it was up by the gate.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


I've never been one to believe "WOMEN don't LIE" just because I am a woman cryme and you know that. I question her motives as much or more than Cesar, after all according to Maria, she wanted to know why Maria was doing this to them IIRC. She had the nerve to confront Maria once about her family, why is it so hard to believe she could have found Maria at her home and came unglued? It's not for me.

So, I am thinking she was in it all the way up to her eyeballs. No way you wouldn't notice anything while you were doing laundry, not to mention the idea that little things were probably left haphazardly out of place given that I believe this was a crime of passion.

While I am not totally sold on Christina doing the deed, it is certainly a possibility and that Cesar was to take the blame since he brought them down with this mess. They would have spent the better part of three weeks getting things in order and making plans which would explain the letters. Also, the mail IMO was breadcrumbs to let her know he had made certain landmarks they talked about before. I'll bet they made plans to meet up at some point but never thought about the idea of the suicide not flying and the civillian authorities retaining the right to prosecute when the initial plans were made during those three weeks.

IF not the actual perp, I honestly believe she was working side by side with him for the three weeks following. I don't believe for a second she walked around blindfolded and never asked about the missing pregnant woman who accused her husband of rape. NOW THAT truly does defy logic IMO.

ALL JMO again based on reading for months. :shrug: [/*]

You must of skipped reading anything LE said
because they don't agree with you.:shrug:

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I wonder when he took her to the backyard to show where Maria supposedly committed suicide. It had to be after the ride to the lawyers office.

imoo [/*]

Oh yes I had forgotten that! SB said he asked CSL where the 'suicide' occurred and she said by the gate...

Thanks Ocean! See your memory isn't failing you! :D

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


GB, he told her he buried Maria in the woods. I doubt he took her to the back yard for anything.
jmo [/*]

She was brought to the crime scene to specifically show SB the exact SPOT that Laurean supposedly told her that Maria had committed suicide.

According to her he did.

imoo

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


I've never been one to believe "WOMEN don't LIE" just because I am a woman cryme and you know that. I question her motives as much or more than Cesar, after all according to Maria, she wanted to know why Maria was doing this to them IIRC. She had the nerve to confront Maria once about her family, why is it so hard to believe she could have found Maria at her home and came unglued? It's not for me.

So, I am thinking she was in it all the way up to her eyeballs. No way you wouldn't notice anything while you were doing laundry, not to mention the idea that little things were probably left haphazardly out of place given that I believe this was a crime of passion.

While I am not totally sold on Christina doing the deed, it is certainly a possibility and that Cesar was to take the blame since he brought them down with this mess. They would have spent the better part of three weeks getting things in order and making plans which would explain the letters. Also, the mail IMO was breadcrumbs to let her know he had made certain landmarks they talked about before. I'll bet they made plans to meet up at some point but never thought about the idea of the suicide not flying and the civillian authorities retaining the right to prosecute when the initial plans were made during those three weeks.

IF not the actual perp, I honestly believe she was working side by side with him for the three weeks following. I don't believe for a second she walked around blindfolded and never asked about the missing pregnant woman who accused her husband of rape. NOW THAT truly does defy logic IMO.

ALL JMO again based on reading for months. :shrug: [/*]

You're preaching to the choir here. On the one hand we have reports from both Mary and Jenny where Maria claimed that she was confronted by Christina (and Christina was angry). We have no such reports where she was ever confronted by Cesar or that he violated the MPO in any way.

It's not that big a leap for me to see the one doing the threatening and name calling *could* be the actual killer.

But that's just me.



:shrug:

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by caejde


Well when Greta was interviewing the sheriff and Capt Sutherland, the sheriff said that the only time he talked to Christina was when she was sitting in the car the day they were searching the house. He had her come over to show the investigators where Cesar said Maria killed herself...and she showed it was up by the gate. [/*]

Yes, that's true. He might have just told Christina or if he "took her there", it really was not far into the back yard. jmo

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


You're preaching to the choir here. On the one hand we have reports from both Mary and Jenny where Maria claimed that she was confronted by Christina (and Christina was angry). We have no such reports where she was ever confronted by Cesar or that he violated the MPO in any way.

It's not that big a leap for me to see the one doing the threatening and name calling *could* be the actual killer.

But that's just me.

:shrug: [/*]

:eek:

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


GB, he told her he buried Maria in the woods. I doubt he took her to the back yard for anything.
jmo [/*]

Oh really, I wonder how Christina knew where she allegedly slit her throat? First you have her wearing blinders and now she's psychic?

Does she walk on water too?:D
JMO

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by caejde


Well when Greta was interviewing the sheriff and Capt Sutherland, the sheriff said that the only time he talked to Christina was when she was sitting in the car the day they were searching the house. He had her come over to show the investigators where Cesar said Maria killed herself...and she showed it was up by the gate. [/*]

Yup she sure did! SB told Greta they wanted to examine the area for any signs of blood, etc.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Oh yes I had forgotten that! SB said he asked CSL where the 'suicide' occurred and she said by the gate...

Thanks Ocean! See your memory isn't failing you! :D [/*]

LOL Well it is subject to change at any moment. I feel like I am getting the flu and feel lousy.

So watch out for more befuddled posts made by me. LOL

imoo:seeya:

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Yup she sure did! SB told Greta they wanted to examine the area for any signs of blood, etc. [/*]

So are you saying you don't think she's psychic?:confused:

;) jmo

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


LOL Well it is subject to change at any moment. I feel like I am getting the flu and feel lousy.

So watch out for more befuddled posts made by me. LOL

imoo:seeya: [/*]

NO NO NO you aren't allowed to have the flu!

These keyboards must be contagious. :D

Hope you do get to feeling better.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by caejde


Even if she is totally innocent? If she's innocent, then why have an attorney present? She has nothing to hide. She's not even related to the criminal case because she had nothing to do with it. I mean I guess I can see why it would be important as well...just to make sure your rights are being protected...but I don't know. [/*]

I've said this before and I'll say it again. Knowing what I know about the criminal justice system here in IL, I would certainly have a lawyer in her case. Former Gov. Ryan (who is now in prison, himself) placed a moratorium on the DP here because there were more people found innocent than were executed in the period since the DP was re-instituted. You betcha I would have an attorney even if I were as innocent as a newborn babe. IMO

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


So are you saying you don't think she's psychic?:confused:

;) jmo [/*]

Of course not. That was part of Cesar's story to Christina. Maria slit her own throat. jmo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


You're preaching to the choir here. On the one hand we have reports from both Mary and Jenny where Maria claimed that she was confronted by Christina (and Christina was angry). We have no such reports where she was ever confronted by Cesar or that he violated the MPO in any way.

It's not that big a leap for me to see the one doing the threatening and name calling *could* be the actual killer.

But that's just me.



:shrug: [/*]

and me.:shrug:

I can see just as much motive to kill Maria in a heated passion moment coming from Christina as I can Laurean.

Sometimes I can see more motive concerning Christina.

imoo

[caejde]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


Yes, that's true. He might have just told Christina or if he "took her there", it really was not far into the back yard. jmo [/*]

Well if he just told her where she slit her throat, she would have just said "he said it was over there" and give a general area. But the sheriff said Christina stood in the place where Cesar said Maria killed herself. So that to me says he showed her.

[Lyn_T]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


"they MAY have had a meeting on Thursday"

"THEIR exact whereabouts on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday are information sensitive to the investigation"

Interesting. [/*]

Been out all day trying to catch up now on reading.

But, IIRC Christina showed up with her MGST and attorney the morning(Jan11th) she turned over the letters. Could they have been getting her an attorney in order also? Sorry no link at the moment.

JMO

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


Oh really, I wonder how Christina knew where she allegedly slit her throat? First you have her wearing blinders and now she's psychic?

Does she walk on water too?:D
JMO [/*]

Maybe she/they thought if they told them "the yard" they wouldn't search the house?

:shrug:

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


NO NO NO you aren't allowed to have the flu!

These keyboards must be contagious. :D

Hope you do get to feeling better. [/*]

Hubby has it too.:( We been smooching too much with each other, I guess.:D

imoo

[bkwits]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


LOL Well it is subject to change at any moment. I feel like I am getting the flu and feel lousy.

So watch out for more befuddled posts made by me. LOL

imoo:seeya: [/*]

My advice is to go to the doctor if you don't start feeling better. I wanted to avoid taking antibiotics and waited too long, I think.

Drink lots of fluids, especially Vitamin C. When I started getting really sick my grkids were here pushing the OJ on me and bringing bottles of water, because that's what I do for them.

Please get better soon. :rose:

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by caejde


Well if he just told her where she slit her throat, she would have just said "he said it was over there" and give a general area. But the sheriff said Christina stood in the place where Cesar said Maria killed herself. So that to me says he showed her. [/*]

OK, what ever you say since who knows for sure. It was Cesar's story to tell. jmo

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by Lyn_T


Been out all day trying to catch up now on reading.

But, IIRC Christina showed up with her MGST and attorney the morning(Jan11th) she turned over the letters. Could they have been getting her an attorney in order also? Sorry no link at the moment.

JMO [/*]

Could be.

:shrug:

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


Maybe she/they thought if they told them "the yard" they wouldn't search the house?

:shrug: [/*]

I brought that up a couple of months back. It did cross my mind and I wondered in her naiveté did she think it would steer them away from the inside of the home.

imoo

[caejde]

Originally posted by bkwits


I've said this before and I'll say it again. Knowing what I know about the criminal justice system here in IL, I would certainly have a lawyer in her case. Former Gov. Ryan (who is now in prison, himself) placed a moratorium on the DP here because there were more people found innocent than were executed in the period since the DP was re-instituted. You betcha I would have an attorney even if I were as innocent as a newborn babe. IMO [/*]

That's why I said I could see both. I don't know much about law or anything. I would probably get an attorney as well just to ensure my rights were protected.

[caejde]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


OK, what ever you say since who knows for sure. It was Cesar's story to tell. jmo [/*]

Well, my signature line says that it's just my opinion. And that's all it is.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


Maybe she/they thought if they told them "the yard" they wouldn't search the house?

:shrug: [/*]

Maybe cryme, given that they could also have been thinking before that the USMC would be handling things.

JMO tho and nothing more. :cool:

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by bkwits


My advice is to go to the doctor if you don't start feeling better. I wanted to avoid taking antibiotics and waited too long, I think.

Drink lots of fluids, especially Vitamin C. When I started getting really sick my grkids were here pushing the OJ on me and bringing bottles of water, because that's what I do for them.

Please get better soon. :rose: [/*]

Thank you so much. How much V-C should I take daily. I usually take 1000 ml. I think. My daughter in law said she is bringing something over later that is very good when someone has the flu......has all sorts of vitamins in it and other things.

imoo

[caejde]

Originally posted by Lyn_T


Been out all day trying to catch up now on reading.

But, IIRC Christina showed up with her MGST and attorney the morning(Jan11th) she turned over the letters. Could they have been getting her an attorney in order also? Sorry no link at the moment.

JMO [/*]

It's possible. If they were waiting on the lawyer's office to open to go to the sheriff's department, she still could have gone to the sheriff's department and turned the notes in. She could have said she wasn't goign to answer questions until her lawyer got there.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by caejde


It's possible. If they were waiting on the lawyer's office to open to go to the sheriff's department, she still could have gone to the sheriff's department and turned the notes in. She could have said she wasn't goign to answer questions until her lawyer got there. [/*]

Maybe she had to make arrangements for a babysitter and take care of her child's needs before she got there. Just saying.......

jmo

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


GB, he told her he buried Maria in the woods. I doubt he took her to the back yard for anything.
jmo [/*]
Do you reasonably think that CSL never looked out her front room or dining area windows toward the backyard? Isn't it reasonable that she would have seen an unearthed area stand out like a 'sore thumb'?

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by IvySterling

Do you reasonably think that CSL never looked out her front room or dining area windows toward the backyard? Isn't it reasonable that she would have seen an unearthed area stand out like a 'sore thumb'? [/*]

Cesar said he was making a fire pit. :shrug:

[caejde]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


Maybe she had to make arrangements for a babysitter and take care of her child's needs before she got there. Just saying.......

jmo [/*]

That's possible but her sister is here. Her sister could have watched the baby and taken the baby to the baby sitter's for her.

And if she knew she had to make these arrangements, then she should have just called the police when he left.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Thank you so much. How much V-C should I take daily. I usually take 1000 ml. I think. My daughter in law said she is bringing something over later that is very good when someone has the flu......has all sorts of vitamins in it and other things.

imoo [/*] 1K sounds good as a supplement, drink oj or vitamin C enriched drinks. You don't have to worry about too much. Your body excretes it daily. My doc said fluids are super important and said if I didn't improve or got worse, I would have to go to the hospital for IV fluids.


Good luck and good health.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


Cesar said he was making a fire pit. :shrug: [/*]

So you believe he hadn't already buried her before the 16th when he was seen at Lowes getting supplies for the fire pit?:shrug:

imoo

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


So you believe he hadn't already buried her before the 16th when he was seen at Lowes getting supplies for the fire pit?:shrug:

imoo [/*]

Sure he had already buried her. jmo

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by caejde


That's possible but her sister is here. Her sister could have watched the baby and taken the baby to the baby sitter's for her.

And if she knew she had to make these arrangements, then she should have just called the police when he left. [/*]

:shrug:

[scillak]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I brought that up a couple of months back. It did cross my mind and I wondered in her naiveté did she think it would steer them away from the inside of the home.

imoo [/*]

I imagine they were in total desperation by this point and you're probably right - why else say it was the yard. I'm sure they knew that the house would be searched, but just had to try.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by IvySterling

Do you reasonably think that CSL never looked out her front room or dining area windows toward the backyard? Isn't it reasonable that she would have seen an unearthed area stand out like a 'sore thumb'? [/*]

And iirc the weather wasn't all that cold either. She may have been outside with their little daughter watching her as she played in the backyard. It certainly would be safer even if some of the fencing was down because she couldn't run out in the street.

This woman is either very guilty or she suffers from total blindness. If my hubby dug a hole in our yard even a foot wide I would notice and investigate it much less if it was the size of a human body and looked like a fresh grave.:eek:

imoo

[bkwits]

Originally posted by IvySterling

Do you reasonably think that CSL never looked out her front room or dining area windows toward the backyard? Isn't it reasonable that she would have seen an unearthed area stand out like a 'sore thumb'? [/*]

It appears to me that the back yard is very deep and that pit was behind the above ground pool. Also someone brought out that there had been a shallow burn pit there previously.

He may have told her that he was getting ready for the holiday bonfires. IMO

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


And iirc the weather wasn't all that cold either. She may have been outside with their little daughter watching her as she played in the backyard. It certainly would be safer even if some of the fencing was down because she couldn't run out in the street.

This woman is either very guilty or she suffers from total blindness. If my hubby dug a hole in our yard even a foot wide I would notice and investigate it much less if it was the size of a human body and looked like a fresh grave.:eek:

imoo [/*]

LE doesn't agree.:shrug:

[henry]

Originally posted by IvySterling

Do you reasonably think that CSL never looked out her front room or dining area windows toward the backyard? Isn't it reasonable that she would have seen an unearthed area stand out like a 'sore thumb'? [/*]

of course xtina would say no - but wonder if wanda every saw their daughter playing in the backyard after 12/14?

unfortunately, imo, xtina could come up with an excuse for everything . . . just like cesar's letter.

edit - sorry gbreeze - didn't read down further!

[scillak]

Originally posted by IvySterling

Do you reasonably think that CSL never looked out her front room or dining area windows toward the backyard? Isn't it reasonable that she would have seen an unearthed area stand out like a 'sore thumb'? [/*]

IIRC they already had a fire pit, before any of this happened. I guess he just claimed to be augmenting it somehow. I'm not saying she isn't in on all of it, but, I remember when I first heard that they already had that fire pit. It would seem less suspicious to be getting it ready for some bbqs than to be out there digging from scratch. Just a thought...

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by caejde


That's possible but her sister is here. Her sister could have watched the baby and taken the baby to the baby sitter's for her.

And if she knew she had to make these arrangements, then she should have just called the police when he left. [/*]

Caejde, for me UNLESS I was INVOLVED myself, there is no way in the world my baby would have been in the house and I would have stayed one more night.

That's the only reason I can think of for a woman to feel safe enough to stay with a man who buried a woman who accused him of rape in my backyard.

JMOOC.

Me------> IMMEDIATELY....:chicken:

:eek: and screaming to the top of my lungs for LE.

JMO again.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


Can't overdose on Vitamin C- its excreted in the urine and doesn't hand around and "build up" in the body FYI.... [/*]

I was hoping you would chime in, Annie. :seeya: You are our in-house VN.

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by scillak


I imagine they were in total desperation by this point and you're probably right - why else say it was the yard. I'm sure they knew that the house would be searched, but just had to try. [/*]


IIRC he was already gone at this point and there would be no way Christina would believe her house wouldn't be searched after going to police herself. Since she is innocent, I don't believe she cared. jmo

[Lynn Gweeny]

From the Crime Scene Tour video with Greta and both Capt. Sutherland and Sheriff Brown:

http://tinyurl.com/2wmoda


@2:10 in the countdown:

Greta: “You said that they spoke to Mrs. Laurean a 2nd time. When was that?”

Capt. Sutherland: “We asked her to come down and speak to the FBI when they were brought on to spearhead the fugitive side of that”.

Greta: “How was her demeanor the 2nd time around?”

Capt. Sutherland: “She still just seemed just overwhelmed and very upset and emotional still and just kind of in shock”.

Greta: “But she (?) to say he couldn’t possibly have done this and just ran off because he’d been accused of rape? What’s her thinking about this? What did she express”?

Capt. Sutherland: “Well, she does know that the body was found in her backyard. It’s hard to dispute that”.

Greta: “Did she say that the first time when she had any wind of the fact that Maria Lauterbach was at her home was in that note that she discovered at 4 in the morning?”

Capt. Sutherland: “Well, even then she didn’t believe that she was buried here. Cesar told her that he had buried her somewhere else. But, the first time that she knew that Maria was dead, and that he had buried her, was late on the evening of Thursday night or early Friday morning before she came to our office”.

Greta: "This is where Mrs. Laurean said and Mr. Laurean said that Miss Lauterbach committed suicide, right here".

Sheriff Brown: “According to what, anytime I’ve talked with her was, she was sitting in the vehicle with one of the Detective Sargeants and prior to our coming in doing the search warrant on the house and the property, I asked her if she would come and show us where he said it took place because we would concentrate on that location for any surface blood or any stains ...

[Squawk Box]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


Caejde, for me UNLESS I was INVOLVED myself, there is no way in the world my baby would have been in the house and I would have stayed one more night.

That's the only reason I can think of for a woman to feel safe enough to stay with a man who buried a woman who accused him of rape in my backyard.

JMOOC.

Me------> IMMEDIATELY....:chicken:

:eek: and screaming to the top of my lungs for LE.

JMO again. [/*]

According to the link Lynn posted up thread, CS said Christina didn't know until late Thursday night. I believe Cesar told her they would go to the attorney the next morning and on to the police to turn himself in. At this point, it was told to Christina Maria had killed herself.

Of course Cesar lied and left the next morning.

jmo

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Squawk Box


According to the link Lynn posted up thread, CS said Christina didn't know until late Thursday night. I believe Cesar told her they would go to the attorney the next morning and on to the police to turn himself in. At this point, it was told to Christina Maria had killed herself.

Of course Cesar lied and left the next morning.

jmo [/*]

I'm getting more confused. What then was the conversation in the car/truck on the way to the lawyer's when Cesar said, "Are you with me on this?" When did CL tell Ctina he could get the DP? I suppose that was Thurs. nite, right?

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


Caejde, for me UNLESS I was INVOLVED myself, there is no way in the world my baby would have been in the house and I would have stayed one more night.

That's the only reason I can think of for a woman to feel safe enough to stay with a man who buried a woman who accused him of rape in my backyard.

JMOOC.

Me------> IMMEDIATELY....:chicken:

:eek: and screaming to the top of my lungs for LE.

JMO again. [/*]

I just couldn't stay there and especially not with my child. I don't care if he told me a body was buried adjacent to our place or not.....I would be looking out the windows at those spooky woods and get the heebie jeebies.

Yes, and she must have been sleeping soundly since she said she didn't realize he was gone until she got up.:shrug: Amazing.

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by bkwits


I'm getting more confused. What then was the conversation in the car/truck on the way to the lawyer's when Cesar said, "Are you with me on this?" When did CL tell Ctina he could get the DP? I suppose that was Thurs. nite, right? [/*]

The affidavit or SW says the opposite. That she learned all of it while on the way to the lawyers office that morning.:shrug:

imoo

[caejde]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


The affidavit or SW says the opposite. That she learned all of it while on the way to the lawyers office that morning.:shrug:

imoo [/*]

Yep, that's what it said. Which is why I asked if she had to sign anything. It wasn't answered but I was thinking she would have had to sign a statement and then that statement was used for the search warrant. Surely they wouldn't get information from her without having her sign anything.

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


*snipped*

It's not that big a leap for me to see the one doing the threatening and name calling *could* be the actual killer.

But that's just me.



:shrug: [/*]

See now that's a huge, huge, huge leap for me.....from a jealous wife calling another woman the "*" word and saying some nasty thing, to being a murderer of that woman.