March 24th. - 3/31

[Hedda Lettis]

Originally posted by need2no


Sometimes people see clues, they just chose to ignore them because it's easier to do so..kinda like sticking your head in the sand.

I recall my NOW X brother in law saying he just thought my sister was angry and hormonal at times and she would get over it. He never thought she truly meant it when she repeatedly said " I think our time together has come to a close." She meant it. [/*]

If one partner is a consummate actor (disgusting thought), they might pull the wool over the other's eyes, but still, I can hardly believe that there would be no little teeny feelings of insecurity on on the part of the ?victim. That's where I think denial comes in.

Sounds like your X-BIL was pretty good at denial..

[Hedda Lettis]

Originally posted by CAT TOY
Totally Love your Nic. I see Iceberg everytime you post :D
<snip>
[/*]

hahaha ... I'm torn between iceberg and romaine. No biggie, as long as the tomatoes are fresh and home-grown! :)


Prayers for a solution to the mystery of Nicholas Francisco, and for the safety of all involved. :rose:

[Cury-us Coyote]

Originally posted by Hedda Lettis


hahaha ... I'm torn between iceberg and romaine. No biggie, as long as the tomatoes are fresh and home-grown! :)


Prayers for a solution to the mystery of Nicholas Francisco, and for the safety of all involved. :rose: [/*]

When I saw that nic on St Patrick's day, I thought good thing it is Lettis and not cabbage. What's that song 'Ain't nuttin in the world that money can't buy 'cept true love and homegrown tomatoes. And were right back to NF and CF.
jmo

[need2no]

Originally posted by Hedda Lettis


If one partner is a consummate actor (disgusting thought), they might pull the wool over the other's eyes, but still, I can hardly believe that there would be no little teeny feelings of insecurity on on the part of the ?victim. That's where I think denial comes in.

Sounds like your X-BIL was pretty good at denial.. [/*]


If someone was hatching a plan for a long time I think they would work at keeping things as normal appearing as possible. Also I think it might even be easy to do because the "planner" would be so internally happy about the pending change and plan to escape a life they weren't happy in. The wife (in this case) might mistake the obvious happiness and/or normalcy as having to do with her...not an escape plan for his future.

The thought of a married man who is having an affair but shows up with roses and a lovely gift on his wife's birthday comes to mind. He is so happy with the affair (and getting away with it), it takes little effort to fake the loving husband as part of the 'whole deal', and lifestyle his has chosen. I imagine it becomes somewhat of a game to him and he chuckles smugly to himself about what he is able to pull off.

Yep, my BIL was a bit too comfy in his state of denial.

[AMS]

Mars Hill has closed their comments board. Christine posted last night as a result of some comments on the "secret life" issue. Board was closed to further comments this afternoon.

http://voxpopnetwork.com/westseattle/2008/02/17/urgent-message-regarding-nicholas-francisco/

[decor]

the last stage in any relationship is where the one who has had enough will no longer argue, talk, etc. they will agree with anything the partner says because it is no longer worth the effort of doing anything else. so it can seem like they are getting along great to the unsuspecting partner.

[Hedda Lettis]

Well, I bow to the greater experience, but it just seems so conniving to quietly plan ahead and proceed with the plan, and then to disappear suddenly, with no warning, leaving a pregnant woman with two small children, another on the way, no real income, the bills, and a mortgage (if this is what happened). If a getaway was made, at least let the family know the very next day. This seems the height of cruelty, and heaps humiliation upon the one who is discarded, quite publicly, and without a bit of consideration for another person's feelings ~ or the future of his children. What does this tell the children?

On the other hand, he could be dead. Sheesh! Not much choice, is there?

OK, I've talked myself back into "Something must have happened to him," sadly.

[twinkiesmom]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cury-us Coyote


In 1983 (25 years ago) during a marital separation, apparently an attempt to garnish wages from Golden Rule Travel occurred.
See Kitsap Superior Court Records case number 83-9-00642-0.
http://dw.courts.wa.gov/index.cfm?fa=home.casesummary&casenumber=83-9-00642-0&searchtype=sNumber&crt_itl_nu=S18&cc=GAR&fd=1983-05-06&token=3AB0EF4A1491820F


How do you know it was during a marital separation? Was R. Francisco a benefactor of the judgment or a joint defendant?

Can you get more info out of the system by putting in the case #?

[Cury-us Coyote]

Originally posted by twinkiesmom
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cury-us Coyote


In 1983 (25 years ago) during a marital separation, apparently an attempt to garnish wages from Golden Rule Travel occurred.
See Kitsap Superior Court Records case number 83-9-00642-0.
http://dw.courts.wa.gov/index.cfm?fa=home.casesummary&casenumber=83-9-00642-0&searchtype=sNumber&crt_itl_nu=S18&cc=GAR&fd=1983-05-06&token=3AB0EF4A1491820F


How do you know it was during a marital separation? Was R. Francisco a benefactor of the judgment or a joint defendant?

Can you get more info out of the system by putting in the case #? [/*]

Within the various Court Types (Municipal and District Court Cases, Superior Court Cases, Appellate Cases), there are three search options - 1) name, 2) case #, and 3) business.
HTH

[BobbisAngel]

Originally posted by Hedda Lettis
Well, I bow to the greater experience, but it just seems so conniving to quietly plan ahead and proceed with the plan, and then to disappear suddenly, with no warning, leaving a pregnant woman with two small children, another on the way, no real income, the bills, and a mortgage (if this is what happened). If a getaway was made, at least let the family know the very next day. This seems the height of cruelty, and heaps humiliation upon the one who is discarded, quite publicly, and without a bit of consideration for another person's feelings ~ or the future of his children. What does this tell the children?

On the other hand, he could be dead. Sheesh! Not much choice, is there?

OK, I've talked myself back into "Something must have happened to him," sadly. [/*]


I feel the same way. How can a man truly love his babies one minute and turn his back on them the next minute never planning to see them again and just disappear? With a divorce at least he could have partial custody or visitation. This doesn't feel like a "walk away" case to me. If it is then he took the cowards way out.

[Silver_Dove]

Originally posted by sadiemay62


I would be very shocked to find out he truly "walked away". I think he met up with some violence, probably by a stranger. jmo [/*]

And I will be truly shocked if a stranger went to all the trouble to kill him for no reason, hid his body without leaving any evidence what so ever and then leaves the car at a condo instead of destroying it. This happens almost never compared to how many men just walk away.

I believe he met someone on a forum who promised to take care of him for a change and he jumped at it.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Morning folks -

I'm wondering how the search/putting up of posters went this week-end.

Were there a lot of volunteers?

Is everyone losing hope?

[Shelby1]

I'm not losing hope....

Prayers that Nicholas is found safe today.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Shelby1
I'm not losing hope....

Prayers that Nicholas is found safe today. [/*]

Me either Shelby :)

:rose: Hoping Nicholas comes home today.

[soyesterday]

Hey guys! :seeya:
I haven't posted in a while, but i've still been reading..
it seems still as frustrating as ever..... *sigh*
Where the heck is he????

[Cury-us Coyote]

Feb 13th approx 6PM 46 degrees F, No Precipation, 5 mph ENE wind speed, sunset 5:28 PM PST

2/15 Rain Event 0.03 inch precipation
2/16 Rain Event amount not record
2/18 Fog Event

http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KBFI/2008/2/16/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

[dianaelaine]

Any particular reason for posting this Coyote?

[n/t]

I haven't given up either but it's very difficult when a lot of questions are not being answered.

If they don't want our help then the family should make a statement.

Cury, thanks for the weather forecast for 02.13. Nothing unusual that I can see. I noticed sunset at 5:28 pm so if he left at 6, it would've been dark and maybe that's why there haven't been many witnesses coming forward or he hid very well.

I still can't believe nobody saw nothing, if you know what I mean.

BTW, the coworker is indeed a female. I always questioned if it was a male or female. Whether it has anything to do with anything, I don't know but I would surely love to hear from her. Her "Safeway" comment which was later dismissed by Nick's wife may be a clue, imo.

Nicholas, hope you're safe. :rose:

[need2no]

Does anyone know if Publicis employees have to wear ID badges like the kind where you use your ID tag to gain entrance to the building?

TIA

[Cury-us Coyote]

Originally posted by dianaelaine


Any particular reason for posting this Coyote? [/*]

Considering lighting conditions after Nicholas was last observed by co-worker and possible impacts of wind and rain upon search dog results.
jmo

[n/t]

Originally posted by Cury-us Coyote


Considering lighting conditions after Nicholas was last observed by co-worker and possible impacts of wind and rain upon search dog results.
jmo [/*]

Would rain and wind have an impact?

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by n/t


Would rain and wind have an impact? [/*]

I'm certainly no expert, but I think I recall reading that rain and weather conditions can play a part in the dogs not being able to track a scent.

Hi Soyesterday :seeya:

[need2no]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


I'm certainly no expert, but I think I recall reading that rain and weather conditions can play a part in the dogs not being able to track a scent.

Hi Soyesterday :seeya: [/*]

IIRC Harlett stated wind and rain would affect the dogs ability to track his scent, and this certainly makes sense.

[n/t]

Q. Doesn't rain hurt your ability to find the scent?
A. We search year-round in the heavy rains here in the Pacific Northwest and in the jungles and rain forests in other countries. Rain actually helps our searching capabilities. It refreshes the scent and brings it closer to the surface so the search dog can smell it. Rain also keeps the search dogs' nasal passages moist so they can hold the scent longer.

http://www.k9sardog.com/faqs.html

:shrug:

[RainyNiteNTx]

hammer <<to this whole case - aargh

[need2no]

It would helpful if LE would have a press conference and address some of the issues in this MP case. Surely they are well aware of the public interest.

[JustFacts]

With Safeway so close by, going to Costco for only a single item is a red flag to me.

JMO

[SeattleEddie]

Originally posted by need2no
It would helpful if LE would have a press conference and address some of the issues in this MP case. Surely they are well aware of the public interest. [/*]

It would be great if we could get updates like the ones the Middlebury VT police put out on a regular basis in the Garza case: http://middleburypolice.org/02-26-08%20press%20release.PDF

[n/t]

Originally posted by SeattleEddie


It would be great if we could get updates like the ones the Middlebury VT police put out on a regular basis in the Garza case: http://middleburypolice.org/02-26-08%20press%20release.PDF [/*]

I wonder what we can do to encourage LE to give us this type of information.

Do you think Nick's family's silence is one of the reasons LE is not releasing much?

Is it because different States handle Missing Persons cases differently?

Or is it because Nicholas Garza is 19 and a student and Nicholas Francisco is 28 ?

[n/t]

Originally posted by JustFacts


With Safeway so close by, going to Costco for only a single item is a red flag to me.

JMO [/*]

Me too. I don't believe the coworker "assumed" he was going to Safeway.

It doesn't make any sense. If Nicholas told her he was going "up here", why would she assume Safeway and not his car?

Did we ever find out if Safeway sells Organic Sugar?? IIRC, a poster said Costco did.

I know we're going back to the very beginning but maybe that's where the answers are.

[threesnugbugs]

Originally posted by CAT TOY
I've always had an issue with that too; no one goes to cosco for a single box of sugar. Thats caca.
CT [/*]

I must be in the minority then, because I will go to Costco over the grocery store ANY day for just a gallon of milk! I love Costco and will stop in for just one thing. I know I will probably find more items to take home with me, but I do go only needing one item. My husband and I shop at Costco several times a week, and we don't "buy in bulk" so to speak. I don't meal plan and store enormous items. I get my staples there though. I could be just like Nicholas--I would stop there for just sugar.

[deek]

I think Nicholas might have been going to Costco because Christine needed organic sugar in bulk quantities. She was opening a "bath and body" shop on Etsy and would use the sugar to make sugar scrubs. I don't think she wanted the organic sugar for the cookie baking, although she might have been using some of it for that purpose.
IMO, of course!

[ThruTheTrees]

Originally posted by deek
I think Nicholas might have been going to Costco because Christine needed organic sugar in bulk quantities. She was opening a "bath and body" shop on Etsy and would use the sugar to make sugar scrubs. I don't think she wanted the organic sugar for the cookie baking, although she might have been using some of it for that purpose.
IMO, of course! [/*]

In Christine's "Get the Facts" blog post, she stated that the sugar was for more than just the cookies. In her Etsy shop, it does say the sugar scrubs are made with organic sugar.

[AMS]

There was another exchange on WS board between the sheriff and a poster. The sheriff explains his "secret life" comment.

Post 135

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62624&page=6

[late4dinner]

Hi there- I'm new here, but have been reading for a long time.

There's a letter posted from Sgt Urquart on another board you might want to check out.
And yes, deek, she would have used the sugar in her business too.

[HarlettOhara]

Originally posted by need2no


IIRC Harlett stated wind and rain would affect the dogs ability to track his scent, and this certainly makes sense. [/*]

Hi N2N :seeya:

No, that doesn't hurt. K9 search teams are waiting right now for snow to melt in MT in Tom Smith's case so they can begin searching again.

What I did say was that sometimes dogs won't hit on scents and sometimes they will hit on false scents. Wind can blow a scent in different directions tho.. but when the wind dies down the scent will still be in/on the ground.

[late4dinner]

sorry- had to go eat dinner-- I was late, lol

The letter from LE makes it seem that "secret life" wasn't really as bad as it sounded. Everyone has things they're into that perhaps their SO wouldn't know about. Could have been anything.

[ThruTheTrees]

Originally posted by late4dinner
sorry- had to go eat dinner-- I was late, lol

The letter from LE makes it seem that "secret life" wasn't really as bad as it sounded. Everyone has things they're into that perhaps their SO wouldn't know about. Could have been anything. [/*]

True, it doesn't sound so bad. OTOH, they are using the "secret life" statement to justify not doing further searches and to think that it is more likely he left than met up with foul play. So whatever they found is having an influence on their investigation, it seems.

[JustFacts]

Originally posted by ThruTheTrees


In Christine's "Get the Facts" blog post, she stated that the sugar was for more than just the cookies. In her Etsy shop, it does say the sugar scrubs are made with organic sugar. [/*]

Is it possible she added those details after posters on the 'net raised questions? The media reported the sugar was for cookies he intended to make with his daughter. That's a personal, not a business use.

[JustFacts]

Originally posted by ThruTheTrees


True, it doesn't sound so bad. OTOH, they are using the "secret life" statement to justify not doing further searches and to think that it is more likely he left than met up with foul play. So whatever they found is having an influence on their investigation, it seems. [/*]

He said there's no evidence he left voluntarily...
My take on that is evidently the "secret life" didn't lead to evidence he ran off with someone to start a new life.

He said the sheriff's office doesn't believe things being said about Christine....
My take on that is that the sheriff has found no evidence that he and Christine are in a scam to raise money.

He said there's not a shred of evidence of foul play.
My take is that there would be IF he was accosted by a stranger.

What else could it be other than he's met with foul play at the hands of someone he knows?

[need2no]

Regardless of the discovery of a "secret life" it doesn't PROVE NF walked. For instance if the "secret life" was NF was having an affair this doesn't PROVE he ran off with his lover. One could assume as much or speculate this happened, but that's not PROOF.

Not a shred of evidence of foul play is just that. NOTHING whatsoever has been discovered to indicate NF met with foul play. Nothing in or around the car, no witness to an attack, no hospital admission, no body, no nothing.

[JustFacts]

Originally posted by need2no


Regardless of the discovery of a "secret life" it doesn't PROVE NF walked. For instance if the "secret life" was NF was having an affair this doesn't PROVE he ran off with his lover. One could assume as much or speculate this happened, but that's not PROOF.

Not a shred of evidence of foul play is just that. NOTHING whatsoever has been discovered to indicate NF met with foul play. Nothing in or around the car, no witness to an attack, no hospital admission, no body, no nothing. [/*]

I disagree. The fact he abandoned both his family AND his job is evidence.

If police don't believe he left voluntarily and don't believe his secret life played a role, about the only option left to consider is that he met foul play at the hands of someone who knew him and who knew him well enough to take his car and use it.

jmo

[Melly53]

Originally posted by JustFacts


Is it possible she added those details after posters on the 'net raised questions? The media reported the sugar was for cookies he intended to make with his daughter. That's a personal, not a business use. [/*]

I had this thought on the sugar. It was already after 6:00pm and NF still had to face the rush hour traffic going home, plus the extra time it would take to go out of his way to buy the organic sugar at Costco. Christine said on Greta IIRC, that the childrens bedtime was 8:00pm. Add in time for NF to have dinner when he got home, plus time to bathe the children and/or get them dressed in pajamas and teeth brushed before putting them to bed at 8:00 and it seems that would not have left much "cookie time" that night to begin with. Mixing up a batch of cookie dough, cutting them out and maybe decorating them, plus baking time is not exactly a 10 minute procedure especially when you are doing it with a small child.

His comment to the coworker about needing to "go up the street" or something to that effect, made me wonder if he had perhaps decided to just go to Safeway and grab a small bag of regular sugar to save time, so that he could get home sooner and have more time to spend with his daughter making the cookies before she had to go to bed. Granted the organic sugar was to be used for other things but couldn't it have been bought when he was not so rushed for time, or if Christine had a car, then she could have picked up the organic sugar the next day. IMO, JMO, MOO

[need2no]

Originally posted by JustFacts


I disagree. The fact he abandoned both his family AND his job is evidence.

If police don't believe he left voluntarily and don't believe his secret life played a role, about the only option left to consider is that he met foul play at the hands of someone who knew him and who knew him well enough to take his car and use it.

jmo [/*]

Do we KNOW he abandoned both his family and his job? No, and that's the point, no one knows WHY or how he vanished. The police are not saying they don't believe he left voluntarily, or the "secret life" didn't have anything to do with his disappearance... they are simply saying they have no PROOF either way.

For example: If Christine discovered a box full of love letters written to Nicholas with risque photos included, and statements about their happy times spent together this would indicate NF was having an affair...but if wouldn't PROVE he walked away from his job and his family to be with this lover, something totally unrelated to his affair could have happened to him. Now if Christine also discovered e-mails NF had written to his lover saying he was anxiously looking forward to February 13th and starting his new life with her even though he felt guilty about leaving his family, then this would be pretty good PROOF he walked. Apparently the "secret life" info discovered is not that cut and dry.

LE can't just say they believe he walked because of some "secret life" he was leading without some kind of proof this is related to his disappearance. By the same token they can't say they think he met with foul play without some evidence to indicate foul play was involved in his disappearance.

Not that I believe for a second this is what happened...but let's say someone hit NF over the hit when he was getting in his car to leave work, then stuffed him in the car and drove away. While this is indeed foul play in order for LE to say he met with foul play they would need some evidence that this is what occurred.

Unfortunately there isn't always proof one way or the other.

[need2no]

Originally posted by CAT TOY
Some would say the same for SPetersons case, but look how we are all searching for her... she sent risque messages via txt, so she probably up and left too..............Hmmmmmmmm Gender Bending.

I waffle but am totally leaning towards the fact that he split. [/*]

Nah, no gender bending from me. I don't believe for a second that Stacy wrote those text messages...but I bet Drew knows who did. :D

I also think NF walked and this sure beats the alternative.

[n/t]

I want to know why there haven't been any organized searches. I cannot accept that people are too busy as an excuse.

Nicholas, call someone. :rose:

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by n/t
I want to know why there haven't been any organized searches. I cannot accept that people are too busy as an excuse.

Nicholas, call someone. :rose: [/*]

I don't understand either. If you just read through the other missing people on this forum and what their families are doing, it is night and day from what is being done in this case.