3-22 to 3-24 [Archive] - In Session Message Boards

ThruTheTrees

03-22-2008, 11:28 AM

Carrying this over from the last thread.

While it's true that if Nicholas used his own name to register a new car, it could be traced, I wonder how much effort LE would be putting in to that level of trying to track him down? I guess if he got a traffic ticket or something then that would be recorded. But he's never had a traffic ticket in Washington state before, according to public records.

I think it's logical that he could have had someone helping him, or left by another means than a car.

I am curious about the last news report that he left his work with "personal belongings" -- they only said his laptop and iPod though, which seem like normal things to take home every day. Has anyone heard if he took other things too?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by invreporter1105

Hi, Amy.

So, are you suggesting that NF would have purchased another vehicle with no money or at least a credit check which could be traced? [/*]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He might not have purchased any vehicle. If you are running away, you would not do anything that would leave tracks to find you, I think.

Maybe he left town completely. Had enough cash for a bus ticket or something. Plenty of people in big cities and little towns don't have vehicles.

One thing about someone who plans to walk away (as opposed to just ups and walks away on a whim) would be to stashing cash for some time--maybe little bits that wouldn't be noticed. I don't know that the person would use that for a vehicle right away, unless he has figured out a new identity--otherwise he would have to get license, insurance, tags under his present identity--and could be traced.

MoonFlwr

03-22-2008, 12:22 PM

*Bringing this over from the previous thread*

Here is another guy that went missing in 2002. He is listed as Caucasian but looks a lot like the others. He is also over 6' and his car was found abandoned.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/t/tew_dixon.html

and yes there are a LOT of missing people in the state of WA

***********

He sure does look a lot like the others! I wonder if the location is close to or nowhere near where Nicholas went missing?

Postergeist

03-22-2008, 12:25 PM

Originally posted by KKKKKKatie
I don't see a note from CW saying not to start another thread...so....here you go!

ETA...don't forget the rules

Hi all! I read the sticky, and the other threads locked and moved so I'm caught up. Wow!

It crossed my mind that maybe a thread discussing all the missing men from the state of Washington could be put up, since there are so many and several that happened during the same time period of NF's disappearance.

But it might be that all facts can't be discussed with those cases either. :shrug:

(For those of you that don't check the Amber Board regularly, a Tampa young man missing recently was resolved. His body was found and his girlfriend {along with another man} was arrested in his murder. The victim's name is Charles Beck.)

decor

03-22-2008, 12:32 PM

Here is one that went missing back in '92. He was only 16 at the time but they did an age progression to 26 and he looks like all the rest of them to some degree. This one was in Oak Harbor which is North of Seattle but I don't know how far.
He is Caucasian and Native American.

I just find the similarities to all of the guys bizarre.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/*/becker_douglas.html

decor

03-22-2008, 12:34 PM

This is the only other I found that is missing from Seattle but he was on his way to AK. He doesn't seem to fit the profile of the rest but I thought it strange he was going to Alaska.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/d/doss_john.html

Postergeist

03-22-2008, 01:24 PM

Khoi Dang Vu has been missing since 2007

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/vu_k.htm

http://www.crimeandjustice.us/forums/lofiversion/index.php?t10608.html

So many times there are no photos with the name or there is no news links for the person listed as missing and sometimes sites aren't updated when there is a resolution.

This site does list 2 adult males (and 1 adult female) missing from the state of Washington with photos.

http://someoneismissing.com/washington/missing.htm

The men are Duna Iulian Florin and James Ehrgott.

Rory Shoemaker has been missing for more than 10 years

http://www1.co.snohomish.wa.us/Departments/Sheriff/Information/Missing_Persons/Rory_Shoemaker.htm

Reuben M. Lewis has been missing since 1991

http://www1.co.snohomish.wa.us/Departments/Sheriff/Information/Missing_Persons/Reuben_Lewis.htm

Titanic [Ty] M. Hagen has been missing since '79

http://www1.co.snohomish.wa.us/Departments/Sheriff/Information/Missing_Persons/Titanic_Hagen.htm

AMS

03-22-2008, 01:29 PM

CAT TOY - here is the info you were looking for on family abandonment.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=26.20.030

Here is info on a Class C felony.

http://www.societyofcounsel.org/crime_classifications.htm

AMS

Cury-us Coyote

03-22-2008, 01:33 PM

Waiting game difficult for kin of the missing
Caseload forces police to prioritize searches
http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/daily/local/80472.php

decor

03-22-2008, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by Cury-us Coyote
Waiting game difficult for kin of the missing
Caseload forces police to prioritize searches
http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/daily/local/80472.php [/*]

after reading that I wonder if Nick is found alive if they have to say where he is because he is still responsible for the support of his children.

AMS

03-22-2008, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by decor

after reading that I wonder if Nick is found alive if they have to say where he is because he is still responsible for the support of his children. [/*]

That was my thought too Decor. Sounds like it is a crime to run off, at least if you have kids. Unless....they know where he is and he is forwarding $$$ for the kids.

isitme

03-22-2008, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by AMS

That was my thought too Decor. Sounds like it is a crime to run off, at least if you have kids. Unless....they know where he is and he is forwarding $$$ for the kids. [/*]

Well that is interesting information.

decor

03-22-2008, 03:26 PM

Originally posted by Envision

There's no court order for child support so technically he is not doing anything illegal. The only people they'd have to tell of his whereabouts are the court and that's only if there is a case pending against him. [/*]

I meant if LE would have to tell his family so that child support could be filed.

Miss Behavin

03-22-2008, 04:36 PM

Is there any news today?

Postergeist

03-22-2008, 04:48 PM

No new updates on Nicholas that I can find for today.

The only "new" info is in obtaining a different abode, however that doesn't involve Nicholas directly, who's been missing now for 39 days.

:rose: Hope for Nicholas

Cury-us Coyote

03-22-2008, 08:37 PM

Can I give my house back to the bank?
http://www.brokeroutpost.com/reference/137691.htm

MoonFlwr

03-22-2008, 08:42 PM

Hi Cury-us :seeya:

Not sure what that link is to, but it aint working for me!

Cury-us Coyote

03-22-2008, 09:05 PM

Originally posted by MoonFlwr
Hi Cury-us :seeya:

Not sure what that link is to, but it aint working for me! [/*]

Sorry it works for me - it details Pros and Cons of foreclosure.
Try
http://www.brokeroutpost.com/
go to site search at top and enter the title question (Can I give my house back to the bank?)
Good Luck and Happy Easter Eve.
:seeya:

PerneciaJane

03-22-2008, 09:15 PM

Originally posted by Envision
Maybe Cat will come around soon and give us some topics to chew on. [/*]

Could we check out the other graphic designer that went missing 2005. Is it too late to check online ads for him?

What do we know about all 4 missing men from that area around Federal Way?

I have company all next week so will just be online occasionally.

Sorry I posted this before I saw Coldwaters post, please ignore my post.

K Anne

03-22-2008, 09:47 PM

Originally posted by CAT TOY
http://www.allbusiness.com/marketing-advertising/4179033-1.html

Internationa appeal? Boats, a Paris based Co? Where is NFs passport? Is it missing too? The more I've read about the accts this company was handling the more exposure I see that NF had..

CT [/*]

I don't know, CT; I've worked for any number of international companies and never travelled anywhere through work.

He wasn't a bigshot at Publicis. And even at the higher management levels, not everyone has access to everything. What kind of exposure do you think he had?

(Edit: P.S. Thank you Coldwater, & Happy Easter!!)

K Anne

03-22-2008, 09:50 PM

Originally posted by CAT TOY
Today I was remembering what it was like to work downtown. Im not sure of the parking in queen anne for Publicis but I did want to know; did NF use a parking garage as most do downtown? Or, did he park on the street? I had to use a parking garage and spots are like GOLD there and hard to come by unless your business gives you a space. Does anyone who lives near Publicis know if in fact he used a parking garage? I always felt the most vulnerable at the parking garage to be honest. It's a prime location to take someones car, rob them etc.
Seattle Eddie when you see this can you let me know? My sil lived in Queen Anne District and I rememeber it but not as well as downtown. Is the parking situation there an issue?
CT [/*]

I'm pretty sure it's already been said (one of the blogs) that he parked on the street...

K Anne

03-22-2008, 09:58 PM

Originally posted by CAT TOY
Hmmm I dont remember that at all. So, no parking garage for Publicis Employees? Are we sure? They are not always "garages" per say; they are actually Lots. Little lots that are managed by other ppl that you have to pay for a spot; monthly. Street parking would be insanely expensive. There are meters everywhere.
CT [/*]

I don't know necessarily that there isn't a garage for Publicis employees; just remember seeing that NF would have parked on the street. Could be a paid lot as well. ;) What are you thinking here? IIRC he was expected to have been parked on the street; also IIRC paid lots near there are street level, open, uncovered.

AMS

03-22-2008, 09:58 PM

Originally posted by andover
I thought I read somewhere that CF said that Nic did not have a passport. [/*]

I remember reading that as well.

K Anne

03-22-2008, 10:07 PM

Originally posted by CAT TOY

Well, honestly I thnk he would have had exposure by phone or net to anyone in the corporation....and to be honest we spend 1/2 our lives at work. So his relationships and contacts thru work I would think would be key to finding out who he was in contact with on a daily basis. Someone in NY? Someone in Paris at HQ?
I hope that LE is going over his phone records from his ext or his online exposure thru his job.

I always had contact with the home offices, HQ and Ceos, even their family members; come to think of it. So via the phone and work his exposure to another country or someone in another state could have been very high. I was looking online at his job discription....it sounds like a great corp that has a lot of wonderful ppl working there. Worldwide. [/*]

It depends on what kind of work you're doing and what level you're at.

If we have a graphics designer on this board it'd be great to hear a typical project course, scope, level and frequency (and methods) of contact with client.

FWIW the work I've done with graphic designers has been all through email and definitely not constant; the idea is proposed with sketches, graphics are created and sent, comments sorted and changes finalized (signed off for invoicing or printing authorization or whatever arrangement), and then everyone moves on to the next project.

ThruTheTrees

03-22-2008, 10:09 PM

Originally posted by Cury-us Coyote
Can I give my house back to the bank?
http://www.brokeroutpost.com/reference/137691.htm [/*]

This is interesting. I've read about a lot of people walking away from their homes due to both the subprime mess and also the depreciating values in some communities. I remember hearing about a community in California where lots of people just walked away from their homes, and even left their pets. It was very sad, the pets were starving and eating carpet and such.

According to this link, there is no benefit to one's credit if they give their home back to the bank. It still goes down as a foreclosure on the credit report.

K Anne

03-22-2008, 10:17 PM

Originally posted by CAT TOY

Well, honestly I thnk he would have had exposure by phone or net to anyone in the corporation....and to be honest we spend 1/2 our lives at work. So his relationships and contacts thru work I would think would be key to finding out who he was in contact with on a daily basis. Someone in NY? Someone in Paris at HQ?
I hope that LE is going over his phone records from his ext or his online exposure thru his job.

I always had contact with the home offices, HQ and Ceos, even their family members; come to think of it. So via the phone and work his exposure to another country or someone in another state could have been very high. I was looking online at his job discription....it sounds like a great corp that has a lot of wonderful ppl working there. Worldwide. [/*]

I get what you're saying here but IME most international companies have regional offices -- I can't imagine he would be in contact with NY or Paris frequently or at all; more like Los Angeles, San Francisco, or even Las Vegas (same time zone).

;) Guess I'll go look at Publicis for a while to see if that makes sense.

ETA: lol I do not like their website design!!! blucch!
ETA: ooops! wrong site; but still...

K Anne

03-22-2008, 10:25 PM

Cat, where are you seeing jobs? I don't find them on Publicis sites...

HarlettOhara

03-22-2008, 10:27 PM

Originally posted by K Anne

I get what you're saying here but IME most international companies have regional offices -- I can't imagine he would be in contact with NY or Paris frequently or at all; more like Los Angeles, San Francisco, or even Las Vegas (same time zone).

;) Guess I'll go look at Publicis for a while to see if that makes sense. [/*]

Nicholas was an Art Director.. he is the head of a department at Publicis, this department takes an overall view of the ad, balance its color and layout, the words, etc. It was his job to approve all these things, when his subordinates have worked on an ad, make changes etc. He would sign off on all finished work.

Nicholas would have been given work from an Account Executive.. all correspondence concerning the ads/artwork would be handled by the Exec. with the client.

ThruTheTrees

03-22-2008, 10:30 PM

I was just glancing at Web Sleuths, and someone over there emailed the King County sheriff and got a reply back, with regard to the examination of Nicholas's car. Basically saying that they can't release any information since the car is "evidence" but that they have found no evidence of foul play in their investigation of it. I'm not sure if this would mean they have id'ed all of the fingerprints found in/on it and found no unknown prints or what.

It does say the case is still under investigation. So while they don't have any evidence from the car, they must still have some suspicions.

ThruTheTrees

03-22-2008, 10:33 PM

I understand we are not supposed to talk about other cases here, but I am trying to take a bigger view of this one, so maybe someone can PM me a reply to this question.

I am wondering if any of you that have been following missing person cases for awhile, have ever come across a case where the missing person has returned after a couple months, and his or her family/loved ones have moved away in his/her absence?

mc528

03-22-2008, 11:15 PM

Originally posted by ThruTheTrees
I was just glancing at Web Sleuths, and someone over there emailed the King County sheriff and got a reply back, with regard to the examination of Nicholas's car. Basically saying that they can't release any information since the car is "evidence" but that they have found no evidence of foul play in their investigation of it. I'm not sure if this would mean they have id'ed all of the fingerprints found in/on it and found no unknown prints or what.

It does say the case is still under investigation. So while they don't have any evidence from the car, they must still have some suspicions. [/*]

You beat me to this.....I was going to post the same thing. :)

K Anne

03-22-2008, 11:20 PM

Originally posted by HarlettOhara

Nicholas was an Art Director.. he is the head of a department at Publicis, this department takes an overall view of the ad, balance its color and layout, the words, etc. It was his job to approve all these things, when his subordinates have worked on an ad, make changes etc. He would sign off on all finished work.

Nicholas would have been given work from an Account Executive.. all correspondence concerning the ads/artwork would be handled by the Exec. with the client. [/*]

Thanks Harlett; I figured something like that. Working at international companies sounds so full of glamour or potential but ;) IME the jet-setting is done mostly by sales and upper management, more's the pity (my own passport would like me to have an expense account).

Danette44

03-22-2008, 11:39 PM

Curiouser

03-22-2008, 11:42 PM

Originally posted by ThruTheTrees

This is interesting. I've read about a lot of people walking away from their homes due to both the subprime mess and also the depreciating values in some communities. I remember hearing about a community in California where lots of people just walked away from their homes, and even left their pets. It was very sad, the pets were starving and eating carpet and such.

According to this link, there is no benefit to one's credit if they give their home back to the bank. It still goes down as a foreclosure on the credit report. [/*]

I've been away from the internet for about 2 weeks and haven't had time to read all the old posts so was wondering what this is all about? Are the Franciscos moving out of their house??

Cury-us Coyote

03-22-2008, 11:48 PM

Originally posted by Curiouser

I've been away from the internet for about 2 weeks and haven't had time to read all the old posts so was wondering what this is all about? Are the Franciscos moving out of their house?? [/*]

Still No Sign Of Missing Seatac Father
Now, on the one month anniversary of his disappearance, his pregnant wife Christine is being faced with another hardship - bankruptcy.
http://q13.trb.com/news/kcpq-031308-missingseatacman,0,6258147.story

http://www.kirotv.com/video/15589884/index.html

Curiouser

03-23-2008, 12:04 AM

Originally posted by Cury-us Coyote

Still No Sign Of Missing Seatac Father
Now, on the one month anniversary of his disappearance, his pregnant wife Christine is being faced with another hardship - bankruptcy.
http://q13.trb.com/news/kcpq-031308-missingseatacman,0,6258147.story

http://www.kirotv.com/video/15589884/index.html [/*]

Thanks, Cury-us. I checked out both items.

Track292003

03-23-2008, 12:05 AM

IIRC, what CF actually said in response to a question about whether NF had a passport, she said he didn't have a passport that she knew of.

Just a slight difference, but much less definite than saying he didn't have one, period.

ThruTheTrees

03-23-2008, 12:05 AM

Originally posted by Curiouser

I've been away from the internet for about 2 weeks and haven't had time to read all the old posts so was wondering what this is all about? Are the Franciscos moving out of their house?? [/*]

According to posts on the supportingchristine.blogspot.com and the Mars Hill blog post about Nicholas, the family has been given a rent-free home to move to, so that the wife can walk away from the house and mortgage.

ThruTheTrees

03-23-2008, 12:25 AM

Originally posted by CAT TOY

I cant imagine the upheaval it would cause the kids. I do understand worrying about your bills and how you'll pay them etc..
But without the focus on NF; it makes me sad....concerned. Lets say that NF turns up somewhere with a head injury. He returns home and no longer has a home. I do not get this. Maybe a year later...I could see being forced to leave or move. It seems callous to me.

I think that phone contact with anyone throughout the company even international is not out of the question. I understand they got the cell phone records but I'd be more interested in his Ext phone records thru Publicis. And his PC; and email acct at work.
Who thinks that NF walked away; and is alive and everyone had this man; wrong. No one really knew him? Is that the deal? [/*]

To answer your last question, unless it was random violence that left no evidence, then it seems clear that, yes, there were things about Nicholas that no one knew -- or no one is willing to admit.

As far as the moving to a new home, there is also the possibility that could be part of a larger strategy to solving the case and finding Nicholas -- by LE, by the wife, by people advising her. IMO, not too likely, but possible nevertheless. Things are not always as they seem.

Postergeist

03-23-2008, 12:36 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cury-us Coyote
<snip>

Still No Sign Of Missing Seatac Father
Now, on the one month anniversary of his disappearance, his pregnant wife Christine is being faced with another hardship - bankruptcy.
http://q13.trb.com/news/kcpq-031308-missingseatacman,0,6258147.story
[QUOTE]

Oh, guess I hadn't seen this news article. This then finally clears up the "why" of no active searches...(I know I'd been reading here about posters still talking about placing fliers up and the need for volunteers online to print and distribute but that is coming from members of our site)

<snipped from the link>

Christine says, "Everyone wants to know why we aren't searching. Where do you search?. We don't have anything to go on."

:rose: Hope for Nicholas

Curiouser

03-23-2008, 12:39 AM

Originally posted by ThruTheTrees

As far as the moving to a new home, there is also the possibility that could be part of a larger strategy to solving the case and finding Nicholas -- by LE, by the wife, by people advising her. IMO, not too likely, but possible nevertheless. Things are not always as they seem. [/*]

I was under the impression that if you "walked away" from a house and mortgage and the bank/mortage company took the house back and sold it, if they weren't able to sell it for the amount still owed by the owner (in this case the Franciscos) that they (the Franciscos) were still liable for the rest of the amount due. Yes?? No??

ThruTheTrees

03-23-2008, 12:48 AM

Originally posted by Curiouser

I was under the impression that if you "walked away" from a house and mortgage and the bank/mortage company took the house back and sold it, if they weren't able to sell it for the amount still owed by the owner (in this case the Franciscos) that they (the Franciscos) were still liable for the rest of the amount due. Yes?? No?? [/*]

There are 2 notes recorded against their house, by 2 different lenders, so it may be mortgaged to its maximum value and selling it for the amount owed may indeed not be possible. There has been talk of bankruptcy, so maybe that debt would also be written off in such a scenario? I'm not sure. I do know that bankruptcy, foreclosure, or walking away from a house and mortgage will all have negative effects on one's credit.

Postergeist

03-23-2008, 12:55 AM

Originally posted by ThruTheTrees

To answer your last question, unless it was random violence that left no evidence, then it seems clear that, yes, there were things about Nicholas that no one knew -- or no one is willing to admit.

As far as the moving to a new home, there is also the possibility that could be part of a larger strategy to solving the case and finding Nicholas -- by LE, by the wife, by people advising her. IMO, not too likely, but possible nevertheless. Things are not always as they seem.

Hi ya TTT! I'm not sure on the legalities of forfeiting on debts, laons,etc. if there are two (or more) people that are co-signers, owners, et al. IRRC, whoever has signed is responsible despite the location or non-location of another joint party.

I can't even get the bank to correctly change the spelling of my first name on our joint bank acct. unless my hubby also goes in to sign a new card!

Even tho it was the bank's fault when they entered my name, my word isn't good enough that yep, that's how it's spelled, lol.

It seems from this recent March article that possibly NF's checks are no longer being sent from his company, thus the reporting of the imminent bankrupty/foreclosure.

It's been a topic for years that people need to have 3 months income in savings in case an emergency comes up. However, I do realize that many are living paycheck to paycheck and don't have savings, IRAs, 401K's, etc.

imo

Curiouser

03-23-2008, 12:56 AM

Originally posted by ThruTheTrees

There are 2 notes recorded against their house, by 2 different lenders, so it may be mortgaged to its maximum value and selling it for the amount owed may indeed not be possible. There has been talk of bankruptcy, so maybe that debt would also be written off in such a scenario? I'm not sure. I do know that bankruptcy, foreclosure, or walking away from a house and mortgage will all have negative effects on one's credit. [/*]

Negative effects for sure, but if you don't have the money to pay, other than possibly selling it yourself, what else can you do. You may just have to have bad credit for awhile and eventually hope that you can improve it.

K Anne

03-23-2008, 01:03 AM

Originally posted by ThruTheTrees

To answer your last question, unless it was random violence that left no evidence, then it seems clear that, yes, there were things about Nicholas that no one knew -- or no one is willing to admit.

As far as the moving to a new home, there is also the possibility that could be part of a larger strategy to solving the case and finding Nicholas -- by LE, by the wife, by people advising her. IMO, not too likely, but possible nevertheless. Things are not always as they seem. [/*]

Didn't someone on WS say that they knew for a fact that people at Publicis still believe he is missing (paraphrased)? On writing that here I'm not sure exactly what it means. But my guess is that his coworkers are still perplexed.

To your second paragraph, TTT, husband and I keep talking about it and we agree that under similar circumstances neither one of us would remain in family home. I don't know why anyone is so surprised at that move; it makes sense to me.

ETA: I wish I had a WS account. :(

Silver_Dove

03-23-2008, 01:09 AM

Unless you think that NF is hiding so CF can collect money and get rid of the debt what does all of this have to do with him being missing?

Of course she has to go on she is pregnant and has 2 children. Would you all feel better if she waited out the nine months to a year and had to move with 3 children right after she delivers?

After this long it is unlikely that he is going to walk in the door with the sugar saying honey I'm home.

No matter how much was donated or how much she got from his pay it isn't making up for what she will needs to live on and since it would appear she hasn't worked in years she just isn't going to get a top paying job in a week or two.

As for looking there really isn't a clue where to look. If he is dead his body could be any where. If he is alive he could still be in the condo and no way is he going to come out with flyers around.

You could put up flyers for the next year and who knows if it will help.

He may have left because of problems he had with her but if that is the case he should have manned up and done the right thing. If he is dead who ever killed him was good at covering his tracks and his body may not be found for years.

Have a little compassion and get off her case.

K Anne

03-23-2008, 01:24 AM

Does anyone know whether FBI is in on this case? Or, *would* they be involved in a case like this?

Silver_Dove

03-23-2008, 01:28 AM

Originally posted by K Anne
Does anyone know whether FBI is in on this case? Or, *would* they be involved in a case like this? [/*]

I think you have to cross state lines and/or evidence of foul play.

SeattleEddie

03-23-2008, 01:42 AM

Originally posted by CAT TOY
Today I was remembering what it was like to work downtown. Im not sure of the parking in queen anne for Publicis but I did want to know; did NF use a parking garage as most do downtown? Or, did he park on the street? I had to use a parking garage and spots are like GOLD there and hard to come by unless your business gives you a space. Does anyone who lives near Publicis know if in fact he used a parking garage? I always felt the most vulnerable at the parking garage to be honest. It's a prime location to take someones car, rob them etc.
Seattle Eddie when you see this can you let me know? My sil lived in Queen Anne District and I rememeber it but not as well as downtown. Is the parking situation there an issue?
CT [/*]

I can't think of any parking garages in that area..... I used to work just blocks from there, and I parked in a lot, but I was on Western Ave by the water, and I think he was in QA proper. That area has seen an increase in condo development, and street parking gets increasingly worse. I read earlier that he parked on the street.

I would not consider that a dangerous area.

ThruTheTrees

03-23-2008, 01:49 AM

Originally posted by Curiouser

Negative effects for sure, but if you don't have the money to pay, other than possibly selling it yourself, what else can you do. You may just have to have bad credit for awhile and eventually hope that you can improve it. [/*]

Someone had said that they had been advised that by just walking away from their house and mortgage obligation, it would be better for their credit. (I think you can probably find that posted on one of the other blogs.) My point was that whether its walking away or going into foreclosure, it would have the same negative effect on credit. Though the overall debt could end up being less, since foreclosure tacks on a lot of extra fees.

But it probably would be pretty complicated to try and sell a house when the whereabouts of one of the owners is unknown.

K Anne

03-23-2008, 02:14 AM

Anyone want to do a recap of what you think happened to NF? Or is that beating a dead horse.

I initially thought MHC had something to do with it, that they took out a hit on him, and put the body where they put all the other bodies. :eek:

Or maybe he was rolled by 2 ppl for his laptop -- and I mean rolled, no guns involved, just a crack to the head or windpipe, and that he never made it to his car. Instead lumped into perp 1's car and dumped somewhere (along with perp's car) either over the nearest ferry line or somewhere along viaduct, while perp 2 followed in NF's car.

I've come around to possibility that he left of his own accord but still have doubts about that.

Anyone else? *****?

SeattleEddie

03-23-2008, 02:28 AM

Originally posted by sadiemay62

<snip> Frankly, I don't believe anyone on a message board can come up with an investigative idea that today's LE's don't already use.
<snip>
[/*]

Message board is not competing with LE, nor, obviously are posters advising LE. That's not the purpose of it.

need2no

03-23-2008, 02:29 AM

Originally posted by ThruTheTrees

Someone had said that they had been advised that by just walking away from their house and mortgage obligation, it would be better for their credit. (I think you can probably find that posted on one of the other blogs.) My point was that whether its walking away or going into foreclosure, it would have the same negative effect on credit. Though the overall debt could end up being less, since foreclosure tacks on a lot of extra fees.

But it probably would be pretty complicated to try and sell a house when the whereabouts of one of the owners is unknown. [/*]

Moving out as soon as you realize you will not be able to afford the payments vs eventually being forced to leave seems to me would be one in the same. How would doing this be forgiving in terms of protecting your credit somewhat? How would the mortgage co. even know you had moved out of the home and didn't intend to catch up the past due mortgage? Frankly I don't see the difference, either way you aren't fulfilling your loan agreement, and I agree either would have a negative effect on credit. While the foreclosure proceeding are taking place I doubt it matters to the mortgage co. whether you stay or leave the home....they can't sell the house until all the paperwork, court appearances, legal papers etc. have been processed and approved, and I don't think this process can even start until 3 payments have been missed. If it's paid through April and no further payments are made, she could be in the house rent free for a minimum of 6 more months before the repo is finalized and she has to leave. I knew someone who was in her home mortgage free for 11 months before she had to leave, and SOMEHOW she purchased another home about 3 years later, AND after filing bankruptcy.

Maybe some of the incoming money could be saved and set aside for utilities and groceries, etc. while monthly mortgage payments are not being paid and legal steps are being taken to finalize the foreclosure. Heck if your credit is going to be destroyed anyway, why not take advantage of this and wait until you receive an official notice to vacate. I would expect you have at least a 30 day period before you have to vacate. IF someone is going to be booted out, would they even care about extras that are tacked onto the foreclosure?

Wouldn't future creditors take into consideration the reason she defaulted on the mortgage loan in the first place?

Didn't someone post court docs showing they took out 2 loans for the house?

K Anne

03-23-2008, 02:52 AM

Originally posted by sadiemay62

There is no reason for me to think he left of his own accord. I think there's been foulplay. Carjacking is definitely possible. MOO [/*]

I don't know. I was thinking foul play occurred before he even got to his car. Fatality in that case would be accidental and the car a bonus (such as it is).

I guess I'll turn in now, and see you folks tomorrow or Monday. Happy Easter all...

isitme

03-23-2008, 03:00 AM

Originally posted by need2no

Moving out as soon as you realize you will not be able to afford the payments vs eventually being forced to leave seems to me would be one in the same. How would doing this be forgiving in terms of protecting your credit somewhat? How would the mortgage co. even know you had moved out of the home and didn't intend to catch up the past due mortgage? Frankly I don't see the difference, either way you aren't fulfilling your loan agreement, and I agree either would have a negative effect on credit. While the foreclosure proceeding are taking place I doubt it matters to the mortgage co. whether you stay or leave the home....they can't sell the house until all the paperwork, court appearances, legal papers etc. have been processed and approved, and I don't think this process can even start until 3 payments have been missed. If it's paid through April and no further payments are made, she could be in the house rent free for a minimum of 6 more months before the repo is finalized and she has to leave. I knew someone who was in her home mortgage free for 11 months before she had to leave, and SOMEHOW she purchased another home about 3 years later, AND after filing bankruptcy.

Maybe some of the incoming money could be saved and set aside for utilities and groceries, etc. while monthly mortgage payments are not being paid and legal steps are being taken to finalize the foreclosure. Heck if your credit is going to be destroyed anyway, why not take advantage of this and wait until you receive an official notice to vacate. I would expect you have at least a 30 day period before you have to vacate. IF someone is going to be booted out, would they even care about extras that are tacked onto the foreclosure?

Wouldn't future creditors take into consideration the reason she defaulted on the mortgage loan in the first place?

Didn't someone post court docs showing they took out 2 loans for the house? [/*]

I absolutely agree. I worked as a legal assistant for many years, and can't count the number of foreclosure cases I worked on. The impact on ones credit will not be any different whether it foreclosed upon or turned back over to the lender. And if the sale of house by the lender, after they gain possession by either means, does not meet $$$ amount owed, including all additional fees, the borrower is responsible for the remainder owed. If the borrower does not pay the deficit amount due a judgement is entered and will remain on public record as collectable for a minimum of 7 years.

Moving out now makes me think that perhaps the mortgage may have been in default for some time prior to Feb.13. (But, of course I could be wrong since all I have to base that thought on is what I have read to date. :shrug: ) Which could be part of the puzzle as why NF is missing - overhwhelmed by debt and responsibility. And if that is the case it could be quite some time before he located, if ever.

isitme

03-23-2008, 03:02 AM

Originally posted by sadiemay62

You just made my point. Thank you. [/*]

Then I guess the question is why are you, or any of us, or these boards even here?

PerneciaJane

03-23-2008, 03:28 AM

Originally posted by K Anne
Anyone want to do a recap of what you think happened to NF? Or is that beating a dead horse.

I initially thought MHC had something to do with it, that they took out a hit on him, and put the body where they put all the other bodies. :eek:

Or maybe he was rolled by 2 ppl for his laptop -- and I mean rolled, no guns involved, just a crack to the head or windpipe, and that he never made it to his car. Instead lumped into perp 1's car and dumped somewhere (along with perp's car) either over the nearest ferry line or somewhere along viaduct, while perp 2 followed in NF's car.

I've come around to possibility that he left of his own accord but still have doubts about that.

Anyone else? *****? [/*]
Welcome back K Anne.

I honestly don't think any Church would take a "hit" out on anyone.
I do think there is a possibility someone who is blatantly against MHC might have taken NF out simply because he was a member of MH. That supposition though would mean it would have to be an acquaintance of NF. A co-worker or a client that knew personal things about him as in where he went to church.

PerneciaJane

03-23-2008, 03:34 AM

Originally posted by isitme

Moving out now makes me think that perhaps the mortgage may have been in default for some time prior to Feb.13. (But, of course I could be wrong since all I have to base that thought on is what I have read to date. :shrug: ) Which could be part of the puzzle as why NF is missing - overhwhelmed by debt and responsibility. And if that is the case it could be quite some time before he located, if ever. [/*]

It was already stated by the poster that was banned after 2 posts, there is a great FEAR in remaining in that home. Everyone now knows the families address plus there are even maps leading to that home posted on the internet. IIRC I do believe the sudden move is based out of FEAR in remaining there.

AMS

03-23-2008, 08:37 AM

Originally posted by K Anne
Anyone want to do a recap of what you think happened to NF? Or is that beating a dead horse.

I initially thought MHC had something to do with it, that they took out a hit on him, and put the body where they put all the other bodies. :eek:

Or maybe he was rolled by 2 ppl for his laptop -- and I mean rolled, no guns involved, just a crack to the head or windpipe, and that he never made it to his car. Instead lumped into perp 1's car and dumped somewhere (along with perp's car) either over the nearest ferry line or somewhere along viaduct, while perp 2 followed in NF's car.

I've come around to possibility that he left of his own accord but still have doubts about that.

Anyone else? *****? [/*]

I explained this case to my daughter (sophomore in high school). Her initial reaction was that this could be about money. Maybe he borrowed money from someone and couldn't pay it back. They weren't happy about this. Maybe he went to meet someone to try to borrow money and something went wrong. She said in the shows she watches whenever there is a problem, it is always about money. Her opinion only. FWIW.

Fallen Angel

03-23-2008, 08:41 AM

Originally posted by AMS

I explained this case to my daughter (sophomore in high school). Her initial reaction was that this could be about money. Maybe he borrowed money from someone and couldn't pay it back. They weren't happy about this. Maybe he went to meet someone to try to borrow money and something went wrong. She said in the shows she watches whenever there is a problem, it is always about money. Her opinion only. FWIW. [/*]I don't know much about this case...sorry. Did NF have financial problems?

isitme

03-23-2008, 08:52 AM

Originally posted by PerneciaJane

It was already stated by the poster that was banned after 2 posts, there is a great FEAR in remaining in that home. Everyone now knows the families address plus there are even maps leading to that home posted on the internet. IIRC I do believe the sudden move is based out of FEAR in remaining there. [/*]

You said "It was already stated by the poster that was banned". Well if they were banned from IS then it would most likely not have been posted here right? So it appears that you are assuming that I read this already??????

As for your statement that the move is because of fear generated because the family home's ilocation was posted - all of that is easily available to EVERYONE that uses the internet. How do you think the posters obtained that information? If anyone wanted to know the location and were looking for it on the internet they could have just as easily obtained it the same way the poster did. IMHO the fact it was posted here does NOT increase the likelyhood of danger to the household.

flyingfox

03-23-2008, 08:59 AM

Originally posted by Envision

Then why don't you come up with something a little more concrete besides your snide remarks and rude behavior? At least Cat is bringing up ideas...you on the otherhand are simply self amused. Perhaps someone should throw some shiny objects your way. [/*]

:beer: why are there so many people who seem to be only interested in derailing the conversation with how awful we all are and yet never seem to come up with their own original ideas :shrug:

I do have to wonder if it is an effort to get the thread locked permenantly :flamemad:

flyingfox

03-23-2008, 09:33 AM

Originally posted by ann10

If only that was the motivation. [/*]

I do have another theory as to why threads get derailed at certain points by the same couple of people (including ones who have been reincarnated), but that is best left alone at this point.

Now back to the topic, why do you think the car was found at federal way?
I think it was placed there as a decoy, you know how you throw a stone in one direction and run in the other......

isitme

03-23-2008, 09:40 AM

PerneciaJane, no comment on my post regarding the home location being all over the internet?

Interesting.....

PerneciaJane

03-23-2008, 09:40 AM

Originally posted by andover

Good morning SB, good to see you! [/*]

Sorry, but I am not SB or CF been accused of being both so far maybe more but don't remember at the present.

PerneciaJane

03-23-2008, 09:42 AM

Originally posted by isitme
PerneciaJane, no comment on my post regarding the home location being all over the internet?

Interesting..... [/*]

Nope, you need to reread my post.

zenharmony19

03-23-2008, 09:42 AM

PerneciaJane

03-23-2008, 09:46 AM

Postergeist

03-23-2008, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by andover
I may have missed something, but I was wondering if Christine was given Nic's car yet? It seems that if not LE has kept it for a very long time.

Mornin! I was thinking that as well, so glad you asked.

It may have been answered before, but if nothing was found in/on the car, IMO there'd be no reason for LE to keep it.

Track292003

03-23-2008, 10:51 AM

Considering that Publicis is an international company with headquarters in Paris, it is POSSIBLE that all creative/management employees are told to get a passport, so there will be no delay if a need suddenly arises for them to travel internationally to work on a project.

If so, NF could have had a passport without CF necessarily knowing about it.

Just another thought....

Shelby1

03-23-2008, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by Track292003
Considering that Publicis is an international company with headquarters in Paris, it is POSSIBLE that all creative/management employees are told to get a passport, so there will be no delay if a need suddenly arises for them to travel internationally to work on a project.

If so, NF could have had a passport without CF necessarily knowing about it.

Just another thought.... [/*]

Good point.

Just a thought, but since he's half Filipino, could he have relatives in the Philippines?

shelkobe

03-23-2008, 11:14 AM

I know this issue has been addressed but some people did not give it much weight, but I agree with those that mentioned it would have been helpful had the police, when they found Nicholas's car, put it under surveillance.

Here's a case from the Amber Alert/Missing Person board where the police in Tampa did just that when they found the car of a missing person: http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/mar/21/body-missing-engineer-found-girlfriend-charged/?news-breaking
The break in the case came Thursday night when Palm Beach County deputies found Beck's 2002 silver Mercedes in an apartment complex parking lot, Carter said. Deputies watched the vehicle and spotted Sylvester and Moorehead pull up in a rental car and get in the Mercedes.
Now, we don't discuss other cases in one person's thread, and that's not the point of my posting this. This is an example of a very logical investigation technique that could have been employed here and might just have given us answers to this mystery.

I still think that police need to keep looking at that apartment complex, and run the IDs of its tenants to see who has a police record for relevant offenses.

Shelby1

03-23-2008, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by andover

Shelby, I think his parents are both in Washington....but good point he could have extended family in the Philippines. I would think if so it would be his dad's family. [/*]

Ok. I wasn't sure which parent was Filipino.

Just a grasp at straws, trying to think of where he could be.

Shelby1

03-23-2008, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by andover

Am just guessing that by the last name...JMO [/*]

:punch: <-----for me. Sometimes I'm not so bright lol.

Shelby1

03-23-2008, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by andover
So to me it looks like there are 2 good size pieces of information that appear to be missing.

1. Where is Nic's car right now

2. Did Puplicis hire a PI or not

I would think the answers to these two simple questions would shed a lot of light on this case. [/*]

I emailed Publicis about 10 minutes ago. I sent it to the press department of Publicis in the West.

We'll see if they write me back.

Track292003

03-23-2008, 11:47 AM

Good job! will be anxious to hear what their response is!

________________________

Originally posted by Shelby1

I emailed Publicis about 10 minutes ago. I sent it to the press department of Publicis in the West.

We'll see if they write me back. [/*]

shelkobe

03-23-2008, 11:56 AM

Originally posted by Envision
Sorry but we do not do Easter and you're too late for Passover.
FYI Passover will be in mid April this year.

Postergeist

03-23-2008, 11:59 AM

Originally posted by shelkobe
<snip>

Now, we don't discuss other cases in one person's thread, and that's not the point of my posting this. This is an example of a very logical investigation technique that could have been employed here and might just have given us answers to this mystery.

I still think that police need to keep looking at that apartment complex, and run the IDs of its tenants to see who has a police record for relevant offenses.

That's why I think if we have to have another thread put up in the Wkend Forum that maybe it could be titled "missing men" or something, just so we have more wiggle room than is allowed in the regular forum, so other cases with similarities can be discussed.

As sometimes missing people's cases DO tie together (like the serial killer that killed the hikers in different states).

I agree with you about the apt. complex, as to whoever drove the car there had to have another means of leaving the complex.

Unless NF drove there and left in another vehicle (with or without someone else being involved), or went down to the lake and either met up with foul play or an accident or he ended his own life - or- an innocent person was asked to drive his car to that location under the ruse of a "favor".

imo

decor

03-23-2008, 12:37 PM

Originally posted by andover

Great idea Shelby, shouldn't be a secret....either they did or they didn't, should be as simple as that. If they didn't then it is all a non-issue, if they did that should tell us a lot....JMO. Thanks for taking the time to do that. [/*]

why shouldn't it be a secret?

I am not sure I understand the mentality of we are not involved in this case but we want to know what is going on so we deserve answers.

my question is why does anyone here deserve answers?

actually I am quite surprised that no one has been emailed back about their questions that it is none of their business.

Publicis owes no one here anything.

decor

03-23-2008, 12:40 PM

he couldn't have left the car and walked to the lake or the dogs would have picked up his scent. so he either was never there, or got directly into another vehicle.

Actually I would like to know if the dogs even picked up his scent in the parking area. If he drove there he had to get out of the car even if it was to transfer to another car.

flyingfox

03-23-2008, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by andover
Apparently we got confirmation a few days ago that the family had not yet contacted TES. I have heard so many wonderful things about what this organization does and the success that they have. Apparently they need to be contacted either by the family or LE. It doesn't seem (JMO) that LE will contact them since they have said they have no evidence of foul play. Does anyone know if anyone in the family has contacted them yet? They also have a wonderful listing of missing people on their website, I bet they would even be willing to put Nics listing on their website. [/*]

what a great idea andover.... I wonder if we can contact his mother and give her the information on how to contact TES since it does not appear that his SO has done it.

:cool:

Postergeist

03-23-2008, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by andover

Katie, I was just sitting back scratching my head and wondering the same thing. Aren't we all here for the same reasons? We should all have the same agenda and just all have different opinions. Oh well:o

Well, I think some posters must never look at the main page that shows over 51K+ posts in the Maddie McCann forum and she hasn't been found, or the 44K+ posts on the Stacey Peterson forum and she hasn't been found.

This doesn't even include all the off-shoot boards that developed in just about every big case that made the news to discuss specifically what might've happened in cases that were unresolved (and some that were!)

Many that don't know our board history wouldn't be aware that posters have helped in cases that made it to trial and the evidence they uncovered were submitted into the trial (I can name the SP trial off the top of my head) or the posters that have been interviewed by reporters, etc.

Hundreds of places to post on the web for those that don't think this mb is their cuppa tea. imo

And since it hasn't been mentioned yet on the Wkend Forum-

If anyone has information on the disappearance of Nicholas Francisco please contact the King County Sheriff’s Office tip line: 206-296-3311

decor

03-23-2008, 01:34 PM

actually I have looked at some of the other case.

please explain to me how knowing whether Publicis hired a PI or not will help solve this disappearance on this board.

and it wasn't the question that was asked of Publicis but rather the feeling of entitlement that some have thinking everyone owes them an explanation.

There are a number of people that feel that because they are discussing this mystery that LE, the family, Publicis all owe the them explanations to every question they have.

So it is not the questions but the expectations of answers.

HarlettOhara

03-23-2008, 01:35 PM

Originally posted by isitme
PerneciaJane, no comment on my post regarding the home location being all over the internet?

Interesting..... [/*]

I can answer that one for you...Their home address was given, links to their personal website that had pictures of their kids on it was posted over and over... Do you realize how many perverts, child molesters are on the internet.. and now they actually have directions to their house that was also posted here. Do we know that there isn't some nutcase reading that is upset/mad at the situation and wants to take it out on CF...

Stop and think... how upset would you be and would you worry about your kids if your address and directions to your house were posted on a public board for all to see..:shrug:

Fallen Angel

03-23-2008, 01:52 PM

flyingfox

03-23-2008, 01:52 PM

HarlettOhara

03-23-2008, 01:52 PM

ummmm Cat, there is a flyer with the LE's number

The link has been posted in Nicholas' forum, but I guess it gets passed over like a lot of information does.. that makes it easier to say things are not done...

Here is the link to a flier for Nicholas... it's in a pdf file so you can download it

http://www.helpfindthemissing.org/Nicflyer%5*2%5d.pdf

I had a problem with this link working from here the other day, if it doesn't work you can go here and it does work...
http://helpfindthemissing.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2562&page=2

HarlettOhara

03-23-2008, 01:56 PM

Originally posted by CAT TOY

That is misplaced paranoia, and should be the least of the concern right now; and AGAIN, the concern is NOT for NF.........
This is about Nick!!!!! This is about HIM!!! Dont want the publicity?? Dont ask for the publics help then. PERIOD. And esp dont take their money and then say back off. That's absurd. Get an alarm system. Like we all have. FGS. I can see how some ppl could have made others paranoid here. But again, I see the focus not on Nicholas. [/*]

Cat GMAB and your drama... You are the major reason so much focus has been put on his wife and not him on this board. You don't have a clue what is going on in his case... just because it's not posted on this board for YOU to see it's not happening... YOU are sadly mistaken. Things are being done.. and believe it or not, they don't have to be reported to YOU.

Nellie

03-23-2008, 02:02 PM

Nellie

03-23-2008, 02:03 PM

Originally posted by Fallen Angel
I don't know much about this case...sorry. Did NF have financial problems? [/*]

It depends on whether you believe what his wife said on Greta....or what she said since then.

Nellie

03-23-2008, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by zenharmony19

Hi PJ, It's been so confusing, I really was wondering why she left. That makes so much sense to me, that she left because she's scared. Everyone knows their name now! If it was me I'd feel so violated, I like my privacy. And don't forget, someone also may have Nicholas's keys and laptop, who knows what information is on that? I really think it's the smart thing to do. [/*]

Do you think the "killers or kidnappers" could still track down her new address? Why would they be after her if it's a random killing? I forget? I don't usually see random killers hunt down the victim's family....unless they were a witness. So, tell me, why are they going to hunt down Christine in her home and she has to find another one?

KKKKKKatie

03-23-2008, 02:11 PM

We need to get the topic off of Christine or the thread will be closed :(

decor

03-23-2008, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by Nellie

Do you think the "killers or kidnappers" could still track down her new address? Why would they be after her if it's a random killing? I forget? I don't usually see random killers hunt down the victim's family....unless they were a witness. So, tell me, why are they going to hunt down Christine in her home and she has to find another one? [/*]

I think it was more for these reasons.....

Originally posted by HarlettOhara

I can answer that one for you...Their home address was given, links to their personal website that had pictures of their kids on it was posted over and over... Do you realize how many perverts, child molesters are on the internet.. and now they actually have directions to their house that was also posted here. Do we know that there isn't some nutcase reading that is upset/mad at the situation and wants to take it out on CF...

Stop and think... how upset would you be and would you worry about your kids if your address and directions to your house were posted on a public board for all to see..:shrug: [/*]

Nellie

03-23-2008, 02:15 PM

Originally posted by decor

I think it was more for these reasons.....

[/*]

So, you think the move is so some nutcase can't find her rather than financial? Back to my question that didn't get answered.
Can this nutcase track her down at her new home?

Postergeist

03-23-2008, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by CAT TOY
Yes, you might think they would at the LEAST put that number on their flyer instead of the 911. There is no way I would trust my husbs possible life or sighting to a 911 operator....
Put the no to the LE on his case. Its not rocket science.

Hi ya Cat Toy,

The change in the Missing Posters contact number was only recently changed this past week IRRC to the King County tip line.

That's why in some of my posts I went ahead and included the King County Sheriff’s Office tip line: 206-296-3311 and have even mentioned contacting the reporter that has done some coverage of this at the Seattle Times - Jennifer Sullivan
jensullivan@seattletimes.com or any of your local news media.

Because every link that had his missing poster up I kept seeing only the 911 # listed and in fact, questioned as to why there were no other numbers put on that poster that was done more than a month ago.

Since reading further this week and seeing that other things apparently are taking precedence, apparently there was no need earlier by those handling the case to change the 911 to the approved tip line.

I believe I found the tip line in one of the local newspaper articles in the case.

Maybe the use of 911 was the thinking that he was/is still somewhere in their local area.

:shrug:

Having alternate numbers tho IMO would be prudent in any missing person's case if the person was hitchhiking, seen in other counties or states.

There are many websites set up for families whose loved ones go missing and the initial steps to take when that happens.

I've posted several of those links as well.

Maybe the Amber forum needs a sticky up to put links to Missing Persons Data Bases, organizations that help families, contact info of LE state by state, etc.

imo

Cury-us Coyote

03-23-2008, 02:21 PM

Reportedly 75% of students receive financial aid. Site contains estimated Direct Costs (tuition, fees, supplies) by degree.
http://www.artinstitutes.edu/seattle/admissions_tuition.asp?s=f

K Anne

03-23-2008, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by Nellie

So, you think the move is so some nutcase can't find her rather than financial? Back to my question that didn't get answered.
Can this nutcase track her down at her new home? [/*]

Hey. Let's get back on topic already.

For anyone who is flipping out about NF not being able to find his way home, a) he has to want to come home first, *) he has to remember where home was in the first place, and c) he has to still be alive.

So what do you really think??? IS NICHOLAS ALIVE. If so, where do you think he is?

PerneciaJane

03-23-2008, 02:27 PM

Originally posted by Nellie

I don't.... [/*]

Nellie,

There are a lot of questions that keep getting ask, over and over that have already been answered more than once. We are all here every day and read the same posts over and over so if I know the answers then I would think we should all know the answers. Not trying to be a smart *** but just thinkin.....

K Anne

03-23-2008, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by K Anne

Hey. Let's get back on topic already.

For anyone who is flipping out about NF not being able to find his way home, a) he has to want to come home first, *) he has to remember where home was in the first place, and c) he has to still be alive.

So what do you really think??? IS NICHOLAS ALIVE. If so, where do you think he is? [/*]

- Hiding out at his dad's.
- Bought a trailer and is out in the WA wilderness somewhere (Grey's Anatomy, sorry).
- Greyhounding through AZ, AK, CA.
- At his GF's house?!?!
- Holed up in a hotel/motel/Holiday Inn?
- Paris? NYC?

Do you really think he is alive?

ETA: I would love to believe he is alive; I just don't see any reasonable place for him to be?!

Nellie

03-23-2008, 02:35 PM

Originally posted by PerneciaJane

Nellie,

There are a lot of questions that keep getting ask, over and over that have already been answered more than once. We are all here every day and read the same posts over and over so if I know the answers then I would think we should all know the answers. Not trying to be a smart *** but just thinkin..... [/*]

What answer do you know?

I still don't think she's moving out of fear. My opinion.

Why not pray for God's protection instead of a new house? :shrug:

Nellie

03-23-2008, 02:36 PM

Originally posted by andover

My gut tells me he is alive, but really get torn on that too. That's why I think that TES could really help out here. I believe that they can get to the root of what happened to Nic. But, for whatever reason the family has chosen to not contact them....unless someone has in the last few days. [/*]

I started out thinking he was alive.
But his wife has convinced me he is dead.
You know..."wife intuition". I gotta believe her.

K Anne

03-23-2008, 02:39 PM

Ok; thanks andover:

- Hiding out at his dad's.
- Bought a trailer and is out in the WA wilderness somewhere (Grey's Anatomy, sorry).
- Greyhounding through AZ, AK, CA.
- At his GF's house?!?!
- At his BF's house?!?!
- Holed up in a hotel/motel/Holiday Inn?
- Paris? NYC?

But for over a month now? With no contact with his kids? And no financial or cellphone activity?

I watched "Into the Wild" the other night so, ok, people walk away from their lives and don't look back. I just don't see NF as that type of person.

K Anne

03-23-2008, 02:41 PM

Nellie, if you think he is alive, where do you think he is?

ETA if you *thought* he was alive, where did you think he *was*...?

Nellie

03-23-2008, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by andover

I hope to God this isn't the case Nellie, but I know that this many weeks later it could be most anything. Doesn't LE typically look first to the spouse in a case like this? Maybe that is why everything appears to be so quiet. Maybe, just maybe that could be a reason for the sudden move. [/*]

Well, in her mind she's a widow. She's said as much by stating she believes he is dead. So, she's a widow ready to move on.

What would we think about a "widower" ready to move on 5 weeks after his wife goes missing?

That's all I'm saying.....

Nellie

03-23-2008, 02:43 PM

Originally posted by K Anne
Nellie, if you think he is alive, where do you think he is?

ETA if you *thought* he was alive, where did you think he *was*...? [/*]

I THOUGHT in the beginning he ran off with an internet lover....to whatever state she lived in.

I've since changed my mind. His wife is sure he's dead....so I am too.

isitme

03-23-2008, 02:53 PM

Originally posted by andover

So, cat I think what you are saying if if we can get this information then anyone else can to, so then what is the big deal about it anyway? I don't think any of us posted any pictures of anyone's children. [/*]

Not speaking for Cat but that is exactly what I have been saying. And to my knowledge the only pictures of the house and kids that were lined to from here where ones that were part of something that had been posted by a family member in the public arena known as the internet. Those pictures have seen been removed or made private by someone. It has been reported that the spouse has removed or made them private.

HarlettOhara

03-23-2008, 02:53 PM

Originally posted by andover

So, cat I think what you are saying if if we can get this information then anyone else can to, so then what is the big deal about it anyway? I don't think any of us posted any pictures of anyone's children. [/*]

The point is.. yes the information is out there and yes anyone can get it.. but since it has been on probably ALL crime boards over and over and over and if Nicholas' wife has some fears because all the information has been put out there who are we to condemn her for being afraid. Just because some wouldn't be afraid doesn't mean she can't be or isn't.

Nellie

03-23-2008, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by HarlettOhara

The point is.. yes the information is out there and yes anyone can get it.. but since it has been on probably ALL crime boards over and over and over and if Nicholas' wife has some fears because all the information has been put out there who are we to condemn her for being afraid. Just because some wouldn't be afraid doesn't mean she can't be or isn't. [/*]

Who condemned her?
I just said I don't believe she's moving out of fear.

isitme

03-23-2008, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by HarlettOhara

The point is.. yes the information is out there and yes anyone can get it.. but since it has been on probably ALL crime boards over and over and over and if Nicholas' wife has some fears because all the information has been put out there who are we to condemn her for being afraid. Just because some wouldn't be afraid doesn't mean she can't be or isn't. [/*]

I agree her fears are hers. But for some to blame people on this, or any other board, for her fear or motivation to move out of her home is seems to me to be a bit unfair.

HarlettOhara

03-23-2008, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by isitme

I agree her fears are hers. But for some to blame people on this, or any other board, for her fear or motivation to move out of her home is seems to me to be a bit unfair. [/*]

I am not putting the blame on any board... I am giving a 'reason' of just possibly why she has some fear.... and as for being unfair.. don't you think some have been a bit unfair and judgemental in this case..

K Anne

03-23-2008, 03:08 PM

Beth, if he is alive, where do you think he is?

Also, just for balance, if my husband went missing (whether voluntarily or by foul play), I'd pack up the kids and be on a fast plane out of here within a week. And how would that look? Guilty? Even so: it's one of the many ways some people deal with legitimate (and non-guilty) stressors of this magnitude.

Postergeist

03-23-2008, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by flyingfox

i have to agree poltergeist, if you post it on the net then you can't complain that perverts are looking when you are the one who posted it. IMHO [/*]

Well I don't feel like starting the Internet 101 Safety Thread today, as at some point I'm going to have to start dinner.

But this missing persons case does not involve minor-aged children posting/conducting business on the 'net either.

This is about a college educated individual who did do business on the web and at various times had personal info/pics etc. that were either done by him or pertained to him. So I would think he was/is internet savvy.

The LE out there did say in one report they were "looking to the internet" to help solve this case, IRRC.

I was told by a board buddy that it was against TOS to post the spouse's link here, so I haven't done it since.

I also make a point to try not to post links that contain "mature language" even if it is a legit news link.

I have posted links to missing persons websites in discussion of this case and others, but chose not to link the board that did contain photos of the house and both vehicles of the Missing Nicholas Francisco, as those were not obtained from a news organization IRRC, and I was not seeing those photos anywhere else in a google search at the time, imo.

What other mods and admins want to do on their boards is their perogative. There however, is only ONE moderator for this forum and it is up to her discretion what is allowed and not allowed here.

I try to police myself on what I post and link to, even if there is no outright rule stating what isn't allowed here.

Since Nicholas' home is still being occupied even during his absence, I saw no point in providing links to other sites on the 'net that contained photos of the home.

I don't think that helps the general public in case they do spot Nicholas out there.

IMO it wouldn't be fodder for public consumption if people didn't post it pubicly, and that includes individuals and blog/board owners.

IMO the person/s that have information as to Nicholas Francisco's whereabouts need to come forward and not drag this out any further.

They can contact King County Sheriff’s Office tip line: 206-296-3311.

:rose: For All Those Still Missing, The UnNamed, The UnClaimed

~you matter~

Nellie

03-23-2008, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by HarlettOhara

I am not putting the blame on any board... I am giving a 'reason' of just possibly why she has some fear.... and as for being unfair.. don't you think some have been a bit unfair and judgemental in this case.. [/*]

I think people have just seen things that have raised some doubts in their minds...call them "red flags" if you want.....just like happens in cases when a wife goes missing. If this was reversed and these same "red flags" were being raised about a husband, would you feel the same way?

Possibly she's moving out of fear
Possibly she's moving out of finances
Possibly she's moving to start a new life
possibly she's moving to erase anything she and had
Anything is possible at this point and we're just discussing the possibilities.
But, I can guarantee you that if a man was moving just weeks after his wife goes missing...he'd be looked at closely.

You say you know things but you keep them secret.
Not to be mean, but it's sounds like "neener, neener, neener, I know things you don't know". Why is it such a huge secret?? If it would make us feel better about what is going on here then why are only a "few" privy to this information?

We can only draw our conclusions on what we do know. I don't know any "secret behind the scenes" info to add to what I do know to make me feel differently. But I'm listening for it....

n/t

03-23-2008, 03:12 PM

Originally posted by Postergeist

I've only seen pictures of the Franciscos home posted at your website. Did you obtain those photos then from links from here?

I admit I've not gone thru every thread on this case here nor clicked on every link but wondered why pictures of their home were put up on a Missing site if he is not missing from the home?

Usually in the cases I've followed pictures of victim's homes or alleged victims are what the media reports as a crime scene or were last seen at.

Lesson for all those new to the 'net, if you post family pictures or detailed information about yourself be sure to set it to private.

Also realize that what you post on this board can and does get copied and pasted onto other forums (both public and private) as well.

If you don't want something in the public, then don't put it out there for the public, imo.

:rose: Hope for Nicholas [/*]

Now that is interesting. So Harlett has pictures on her website but she's telling us not to do it here? Did I understand you correctly, Postie? Isn't her website a public board? Anybody can find it with a google search?

I guess I'm not understanding why Harlett is harping on posters here when she's done the same.

For the record, I do recall seeing a link posted after there was discussion about the family cars. I think I was the one who asked if there was another family car and that's when the link was posted but it was available for all to find with a quick click of the mouse.

And I totally agree with all those who advocate against posting personal information on the net. If a perp wants to get you, why make it easy on them. We don't know what happened to Nicholas. He may have been murdered, he may have been a victim of revenge so admitting on a public board that she is moving into a new home....well...I'll leave it at that.

Happy Easter to all. Nicholas, we are all still thinking of you. We may not post as much anymore but you are always in our thoughts and prayers. May God give you peace to make the right decision, if you are still with us on earth. :rose:

SeattleEddie

03-23-2008, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by Shelby1

Good point.

Just a thought, but since he's half Filipino, could he have relatives in the Philippines? [/*]

This is actually a good theory.

Cury-us Coyote

03-23-2008, 03:27 PM

Perhaps NF is still looking for the sugar ...... in any form .... organic, inorganic, cane
http://www.hawaiiag.org/harc/HARCHS11.HTM
jmo

K Anne

03-23-2008, 03:30 PM

Originally posted by CAT TOY
Really why would you do that???? You'd leave? I mean would you leave to be with family; what would be your reasoning? Because I could never do that. Maybe mos or yrs later, but no never not within wks or mos. No way. I'd be thinking of the childrens stability. And If I had marital issues I certainly wouldnt prey on the public to help fix my life. Or ask for money because i'm a SAHM by choice, do you know what I mean?
Everyone is different. I'd have too much love for my spouse to up and walk away; in 30 days not knowing what happened to him.
Plus Id be so worried that a prosecutor might hold that against me. Who knows.....I'd stay put and wait for my husband to contact me. Some things in this case seem very suspect and absurd to me.
CT [/*]

I would try everything within my means to get out of here. From a practical perspective I would leave to be with family, which in my case would mean heading to Hawaii. So how does THAT look? "She went to HAWAII???" But I would also want to be anywhere that didn't remind me of home, just to get some space to look at things in a new perspective, try to understand what happened, and how to attack it once I'd returned home. AND I would be loathe to return to the home we'd shared, if he weren't there.

People respond to trauma or endings in so many totally different and stunning ways. They may seem absurd to those of us who are not in the situation, but yes, one of my best responses to extreme emotional duress is to run like hell and sort it out from a distance.

(edit: Ok that's pretty weird to see HARC up there just after writing this. So maybe he's in HI?)

K Anne

03-23-2008, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by n/t

If you go to the Nicholas Forum, there are hundreds of threads discussing what we all think may have happenend to him.

I noticed you're new here so you may not have known that. [/*]

Thanks n/t -- but, hundreds of threads? I might be looking in wrong place, I was reading threads that seemed daily, so, only 20 or so?

No one is really discussing anything new, so I thought it would be interesting to take the pulse *today* and find out the simple answers: dead? alive? if alive, where?

Cury-us Coyote

03-23-2008, 03:34 PM

Originally posted by K Anne

I would try everything within my means to get out of here. From a practical perspective I would leave to be with family, which in my case would mean heading to Hawaii. So how does THAT look? "She went to HAWAII???" But I would also want to be anywhere that didn't remind me of home, just to get some space to look at things in a new perspective, try to understand what happened, and how to attack it once I'd returned home. AND I would be loathe to return to the home we'd shared, if he weren't there.

People respond to trauma or endings in so many totally different and stunning ways. They may seem absurd to those of us who are not in the situation, but yes, one of my best responses to extreme emotional duress is to run like hell and sort it out from a distance. [/*]

Isn't that logic in conflict with the travel restraint reasons provided for failure to attend Portland Vigils? TIA

isitme

03-23-2008, 03:37 PM

Originally posted by HarlettOhara

I am not putting the blame on any board... I am giving a 'reason' of just possibly why she has some fear.... and as for being unfair.. don't you think some have been a bit unfair and judgemental in this case.. [/*]

Harlett let me clear something up - my quoting you was to give a background for my following statement. It was not to imply that YOU were the one blaming someone here for her fear.

Regarding whether some have been a bit unfair and judgemental in this case - personally I think some have been BUT from all that I have read it appears that most, if not all, of the unfair and judgemental comments fall within two catagories 1) baited to an emotional defense of their views 2) frustration over events, comments, and actions of some key players in this case. Perhaps neither option is reason for some comments but I THINK at least some of the reaction is understandable given the nature of these issues being discussed.

What is being said here is being said on almost all boards and forums that are addressing this case. And if there is a board out there that doesn't display the same feelings then it is probably because they have been deleted. There are many cases being discussed on many boards where judgements are passed on someone, even to the point of calling a POI names. I think you, and anyone that looks can find that happening.

But about finding NF - what else can I do to help from here?

Cury-us Coyote

03-23-2008, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by K Anne

Thanks n/t -- but, hundreds of threads? I might be looking in wrong place, I was reading threads that seemed daily, so, only 20 or so?

No one is really discussing anything new, so I thought it would be interesting to take the pulse *today* and find out the simple answers: dead? alive? if alive, where? [/*]

There is a poll thread here -
http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?threadid=325955

K Anne

03-23-2008, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by Cury-us Coyote

[re: run like hell and sort it out from a distance]
Isn't that logic in conflict with the travel restraint reasons provided for failure to attend Portland Vigils? TIA [/*]

No I'm talking about what I would do, not what anyone else has done. IMO those travel restraint reasons don't have any impact on relocating within the same general area.

A change of venue can make a lot of difference in one's thinking, clarity of vision. Just sayin.

K Anne

03-23-2008, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by Cury-us Coyote

There is a poll thread here -
http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?threadid=325955 [/*]

Thank you. I read it through and don't see the answers I'm really looking for, tho -- if you believe he just walked and is still alive, where do you think he is?

I mean he could be anywhere. But if this thread is about a missing person, why are we not talking about WHERE HE IS.

n/t

03-23-2008, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by HarlettOhara

No secret info... Some things were shared that could be and some things that were asked not to be shared were not. The only reason I have ever said anything in the first place was to let others know that things were being worked on, even tho it appeared nothing was being done.

My mistake for ever saying anything in the first place. For as long as I have been here I should have known better, my bad.

The question concerning if it had been a man... I try to not judge a person without facts...... [/*]

Don't take this the wrong way but at one point, I thought the Francisco family hired you as their spokesperson.

:D

n/t

03-23-2008, 03:51 PM

Originally posted by K Anne

Thank you. I read it through and don't see the answers I'm really looking for, tho -- if you believe he just walked and is still alive, where do you think he is?

I mean he could be anywhere. But if this thread is about a missing person, why are we not talking about WHERE HE IS. [/*]

If we knew where he was, he'd be found. We speculate, discuss and give our opinions. That's what this board is about.

He could be in Hong Kong for all we know. The most logical place would be with a family member. We were told he has a big family. Where they all are, is anyone's guess. He has family in the US. He could have family in Canada, Mexico, Hawaii, Asia.

He could also be hiding in the condo complex or I wouldn't wanna go there but dead. Christine did mention near water. So a lake would be a place to look. Panther Lake was brought up many times and so was hiring TES to help with the search.

HarlettOhara

03-23-2008, 03:51 PM

Originally posted by n/t

Don't take this the wrong way but at one point, I thought the Francisco family hired you as their spokesperson.

:D [/*]

I believe I have said all along that no one 'hired' us.. we are not getting paid. What we do is all volunteer... So when 'asked' to help a family, that's what we do.

I didn't take it the wrong way :D

K Anne

03-23-2008, 03:52 PM

- Hiding out at his dad's.
- Bought a trailer and is out in the WA wilderness somewhere (Grey's Anatomy, sorry).
- Greyhounding through AZ, AK, CA.
- At his GF's house?!?!
- At his BF's house?!?!
- Holed up in a hotel/motel/Holiday Inn?
- Paris? NYC?
- Hawaii?
- The Philippines?

If NF was impulsive or canny enough to ditch out on his wife and kids (not to mention mom, dad, sisters, friends, and colleagues), I'm betting -- if he is alive -- he is impulsive or canny enough to suck it up, go home, and take the lumps AND THE LOVE that await him there.

Do those of you who think he's alive get the sense he is sitting around somewhere watching all this? Really? Or did he walk and isn't looking back?

ETA ok n/t; I give. I'm just trying to figure it out here.... :read:

PerneciaJane

03-23-2008, 03:55 PM

Originally posted by CAT TOY
I have to tell you that wanting to cover up a crime scene, leaving the scene, is always something that looks susp. Look at what Mel McGuire did.
Remember how CLEAN her apt was, she really used her nursing skills there, didnt she. Not a trace.
But she forgot the laws of physics, and that hung her in the end.

Wanting to clear out Nicks home so soon; is in my mind cold.
I'll leave it at that. I dont think that NF is alive. I want to believe he is; but I dont think he is. I also believe he came home that night. I dont want to believe that but I do because of statements made to the press that are PUBLIC. Words will always hang you. So will your actions. I think LE is very busy on this case behind the scenes, like they always are. You CANNOT take only family members WORD for what is happening in a CASE.
That is a mistake. In an investigation, ppl must understand that!
CT [/*]

Cat,
We do all know that but what NONE of us know is exactly whom LE has intv. Some want to act like they haven't talked to anyone other than family but that is not a fact.

If NF did make it home his children would know and would have said so long before now. Then we would all know.

field of snow

03-23-2008, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by K Anne

(snipped for focus)
...one of my best responses to extreme emotional duress is to run like hell and sort it out from a distance.
[/*]

This is what I believe NF did. My only question is whether he is consciously aware that he is running or in a fugue state set off by the duress.

I think identity issues combined with financial issues made him run. Maybe the financial issues came from trying to avoid the identity issues. Sort of like overeating when you have other problems. Make everyone else happy except yourself.

Where he is? Depends on his state when he left. I think he had more connections than the wife would know about. He could be in another part of the country where nobody knows he's missing. That wouldn't be too hard since there are people in his own city that don't know about it.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone from his dad's side wasn't hosting him.

isitme

03-23-2008, 03:57 PM

My first thought when I read about this 2/18 was that he walked away. For the most part I still think that is the answer. However I have not completely ruled out that he is dead. But I cannot expound on why I believe either of those theories.

n/t

03-23-2008, 04:02 PM

Originally posted by HarlettOhara

I believe I have said all along that no one 'hired' us.. we are not getting paid. What we do is all volunteer... So when 'asked' to help a family, that's what we do.

I didn't take it the wrong way :D [/*]

No no....not being paid for it of course. Volunteering. Not all spokespeople get paid.

Well, I wish you could share where the subsequent searches were. I think it would helpful. I don't understand why that would be a big seret.

field of snow

03-23-2008, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by n/t

(snipped for focus)
He could be in Hong Kong for all we know. The most logical place would be with a family member. We were told he has a big family. Where they all are, is anyone's guess. He has family in the US. He could have family in Canada, Mexico, Hawaii, Asia.

...(Snipped for focus)[/*]

I remember LE making that comment about his large family and how he could be anywhere..

If the public's help was wanted and the public was given a better idea of where these family members lived (without giving their names and locations), it might help better organize the focus of flyers.

Of course, in that case (if he is with family), we're looking at a runaway husband and not someone who has met foulplay. The public and local LE shouldn't be used to help solve domestic problems.

ann10

03-23-2008, 04:26 PM

I get the feeling LE already has a suspect in this case. imo.

Nellie

03-23-2008, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by ann10
I get the feeling LE already has a suspect in this case. imo. [/*]

suspect of what? :confused:

Nellie

03-23-2008, 04:44 PM

I'm not real sure what good it does to come on the board and proclaim to be told some things in private that can't be told to the rest of us. Why mention it all??? :shrug:

Nellie

03-23-2008, 04:48 PM

Ok, for those who believe that Nicholas is alive....do you think he's just setting up a new life for himself? Do you think he's aware of what is going on back home....keeping an eye on it?

K Anne

03-23-2008, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by Nellie
Ok, for those who believe that Nicholas is alive....do you think he's just setting up a new life for himself? Do you think he's aware of what is going on back home....keeping an eye on it? [/*]

I'm trying to leave room for this guy to be alive but it would have to be in, as someone said, a fugue state. I have a hard time believing NF could walk away without looking back (after being so connected online?), and if he *did* look back, I have a hard time believing he could stay away.

Nellie

03-23-2008, 05:18 PM

Originally posted by K Anne

I'm trying to leave room for this guy to be alive but it would have to be in, as someone said, a fugue state. I have a hard time believing NF could walk away without looking back (after being so connected online?), and if he *did* look back, I have a hard time believing he could stay away. [/*]

That's kinda how I'm feeling K Anne.
If he has just walked to set up a new life...and looks and sees what is going on .....how could he just stay gone and let it go on?

With the two missing men discovered recently in their cars under water......it makes sense how they dissappeared. But with Nicholas, his car has been found so we can rule out a car accident.

I have a hard time thinking he's in some fugue state. What is that? Not being in your "right mind" or "don't know what you're doing?".

Either he's dead or he's alive and took off. I don't think anyone is holding him hostage. I'm puzzled that LE says they have evidence from the car, but not evidence of foul play. So that would leave evidence of leaving. But yet his wife says she believes he has been murdered. Why does she believe that if LE doesn't find any evidence of that??? And why around water??? It really is confusing why she would think that.....

mc528

03-23-2008, 05:30 PM

Originally posted by Nellie
Ok, for those who believe that Nicholas is alive....do you think he's just setting up a new life for himself? Do you think he's aware of what is going on back home....keeping an eye on it? [/*]

Yes, I believe is alive, has set-up a new life, and is indeed aware of (and keeping up with) all that is going on back home.

mc528

03-23-2008, 05:31 PM

Originally posted by mc528

Yes, I believe is alive, has set-up a new life, and is indeed aware of (and keeping up with) all that is going on back home. [/*]

But, I should add, that I will not be at all surprised if it is determined that he was indeed the victim of pre-planned foul play/murder.

K Anne

03-23-2008, 05:31 PM

Originally posted by mc528

Yes, I believe is alive, has set-up a new life, and is indeed aware of (and keeping up with) all that is going on back home. [/*]

But mc, what would it take to set up a new life? IMO too much, what a hassle. And if he has done that and is aware of and keeping up with all that is going on back home, wow, what a :cuss: !!

Nellie

03-23-2008, 05:34 PM

Originally posted by mc528

Yes, I believe is alive, has set-up a new life, and is indeed aware of (and keeping up with) all that is going on back home. [/*]

Then shame on him!

So, mc528, I'd be interested in hearing why you think this.
Do you think Christine knows this?
Do you think any of his family and friends know this?
I'd like to hear more of your thoughts.

Nellie

03-23-2008, 05:35 PM

Originally posted by mc528

But, I should add, that I will not be at all surprised if it is determined that he was indeed the victim of pre-planned foul play/murder. [/*]

Pre planned as in "someone who knows him"?
What makes you think that's a possibility?

mc528

03-23-2008, 05:36 PM

Originally posted by K Anne

But mc, what would it take to set up a new life? IMO too much, what a hassle. And if he has done that and is aware of and keeping up with all that is going on back home, wow, what a :cuss: !! [/*]

Actually, for someone as intelligent and internet savvy as it appears NF is, it probably would be easier than one would think to start over somewhere.

Also, this will definitely not garner me any popularity awards, but IMO, CF is (and has always been) aware of where NF is, and why he disappeared. Since this is a topic that is not to be discussed, I will not elaborate on my thoughts regarding that.

Nellie

03-23-2008, 05:37 PM

Originally posted by mc528

Actually, for someone as intelligent and internet savvy as it appears NF is, it probably would be easier than one would think to start over somewhere.

Also, this will definitely not garner me any popularity awards, but IMO, CF is (and has always been) aware of where NF is, and why he disappeared. Since this is a topic that is not to be discussed, I will not elaborate on my thoughts regarding that. [/*]

So, do you think they'll reunite at some point?
Or is he starting life all over without her?

K Anne

03-23-2008, 05:38 PM

Originally posted by Envision

[re: the hassle of setting up a whole new life]
For someone with as much technological knowledge as he has, it would hardly take any effort at all. [/*]

I don't know that technological savvy would make any difference. I have a hard time believing that NF is so clever that he is outsmarting everyone (here, LE, his entire family, friends etc.). He's just a graphics designer!!

mc528

03-23-2008, 05:41 PM

Originally posted by Nellie

Pre planned as in "someone who knows him"?
What makes you think that's a possibility? [/*]

Because, from what has been released....if there were indeed foul play, it is WAY too "clean" to have been a random act. (and yes, I've read all of the possibilites/descriptions of carjacking, robbery, and even serial killers, etc).....this has just felt pre-planned to me from 2/16 when I first heard of it......and that opinion hasn't yet been swayed by any of the other ideas I've seen here and on mutiple other boards/blogs. JMO/MOO

mc528

03-23-2008, 05:42 PM

Originally posted by Nellie

So, do you think they'll reunite at some point?
Or is he starting life all over without her? [/*]

If I were to venture a guess, I would say that the family will be reunited. JMO/MOO/IMO

mc528

03-23-2008, 05:43 PM

Originally posted by Envision

For someone with as much technological knowledge as he has, it would hardly take any effort at all. [/*]

I agree.

Silver_Dove

03-23-2008, 05:55 PM

Originally posted by Coldwater

Of course she is important to the case. However discussing her involvment does not include accusing, talking about 'her' business that has nothing to do w/ his missing and bashing her and other personal things w/o proof!

PS to all:

Please don't start addding other cases on here, it will very confusing, to refer to one as being similar is fine but to start discussing it will cause many questions.

Someone suggested a thread for missing Seattle persons, that would be better than putting all on one thread. [/*]

Maybe some people missed this from the first page?

field of snow

03-23-2008, 06:22 PM

Originally posted by K Anne

I don't know that technological savvy would make any difference. I have a hard time believing that NF is so clever that he is outsmarting everyone (here, LE, his entire family, friends etc.). He's just a graphics designer!! [/*]

I have friends in all walks of life that i've kept up with over the past *counts* almost 18 years of being online. Some are known by my husband and some aren't, or if he knew about them, he forgot. It's not that I am hiding anything -- it's just how it's worked out. Most are related to my hobbies and my two main careers.

I talk to them via various email accounts, many which I sometimes forget I have. Also same with Yahoo Messenger, AIM, and MSN Messenger and within that, sometimes different accounts on the same service (for example: I have two names on Yahoo -- one for my arts/crafts friends and one for my other business I was in for 10 years).

My husband probably only knows a couple of my main ones and then some friends know me by one or two, but then they don't know about the others.

I could think of more than a dozen who my husband doesn't know and who I could stay with for a decent period of time. Most are also entrepreneurs and could easily set me up helping them out until I get on my own.

Granted, if I used a family desktop or left my laptop at home, it might be easier to figure it out, but they wouldn't figure out all my accounts. But if I took my laptop with me.....good luck!

IMO, you don't have to be clever, just well connected. I also don't think LE has looked very hard into his internet friends and life if there isn't any evidence of Foul Play.

ETA that includes friends i've now made here and talk to via email. Although, my husband knows about this place (and rolls his eyes big time when he knows I am online here..hehe)

SeattleEddie

03-23-2008, 06:28 PM

I haven't had a chance to catch up on the boards, yet, but wanted to say........ I just got back from watching a movie on Queen Anne. Afterwards we walked around the neighborhood for a while (in the rain). It's the same neighborhood where Publicis is located. I didn't see a single flyer. Not on telephone poles, in neighboring businesses, at bus stops, nothing......

Silver_Dove

03-23-2008, 06:30 PM

Originally posted by field of snow

I have friends in all walks of life that i've kept up with over the past *counts* almost 18 years of being online. Some are known by my husband and some aren't, or if he knew about them, he forgot. It's not that I am hiding anything -- it's just how it's worked out. Most are related to my hobbies and my two main careers.

I talk to them via various email accounts, many which I sometimes forget I have. Also same with Yahoo Messenger, AIM, and MSN Messenger and within that, sometimes different accounts on the same service (for example: I have two names on Yahoo -- one for my arts/crafts friends and one for my other business I was in for 10 years).

My husband probably only knows a couple of my main ones and then some friends know me by one or two, but then they don't know about the others.

I could think of more than a dozen who my husband doesn't know and who I could stay with for a decent period of time. Most are also entrepreneurs and could easily set me up helping them out until I get on my own.

Granted, if I used a family desktop or left my laptop at home, it might be easier to figure it out, but they wouldn't figure out all my accounts. But if I took my laptop with me.....good luck!

IMO, you don't have to be clever, just well connected. I also don't think LE has looked very hard into his internet friends and life if there isn't any evidence of Foul Play. [/*]

You and me both. If I had my laptop with me I'm not even sure my husband could find the ones he knows about.

Also with all of the forums it sounds like he used that would add tons of others. Many people only use their laptops and he sounds like one of them.

Taking off with his skills and his laptop with him wouldn't even be hard. Personally I have always wonder if he was upset when he came out and found his car gone. I still believe he is or was staying with someone in the condo who isn't giving out the info because they agree what why he left what ever that is. May have even grown a beard by now or shaved his head and no one is even noticing him.

field of snow

03-23-2008, 06:31 PM

Originally posted by SeattleEddie
I haven't had a chance to catch up on the boards, yet, but wanted to say........ I just got back from watching a movie on Queen Anne. Afterwards we walked around the neighborhood for a while (in the rain). It's the same neighborhood where Publicis is located. I didn't see a single flyer. Not on telephone poles, in neighboring businesses, at bus stops, nothing...... [/*]

Were there flyers/posters for other stuff? Like shows at clubs? Missing Kitties? My friend's hood in SF had some city worker who would come buy once in awhile and rip down all stuff like that tacked to poles and public right away.

desmom

03-23-2008, 06:40 PM

MoonFlwr

03-23-2008, 06:53 PM

I know this is a long-shot, but someone was asking about fugue state, so here is a link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugue_state

'It has been estimated that approximately 0.2 percent of the population experiences Dissociative Fugue, although prevalence increases significantly following a stressful life event, such as wartime experience or some other disaster[6]. Other life stressors may trigger a Dissociative Fugue, such as financial difficulties, personal problems or legal issues. The causes of Dissociative Fugue are similar to those of Dissociative Amnesia and Dissociative Identity Disorder. Dissociative fugue is often mistaken for malingering, because both conditions may occur under circumstances that a person might understandably wish to evade. However, Dissociative Fugue occurs spontaneously and is not faked.'

Track292003

03-23-2008, 06:55 PM

Originally posted by ann10
I get the feeling LE already has a suspect in this case. imo. [/*]
------

What gives you that feeling? Please let us know.

TIA.

flyingfox

03-23-2008, 07:55 PM

Originally posted by Nellie

I think people have just seen things that have raised some doubts in their minds...call them "red flags" if you want.....just like happens in cases when a wife goes missing. If this was reversed and these same "red flags" were being raised about a husband, would you feel the same way?

Possibly she's moving out of fear
Possibly she's moving out of finances
Possibly she's moving to start a new life
possibly she's moving to erase anything she and had
Anything is possible at this point and we're just discussing the possibilities.
But, I can guarantee you that if a man was moving just weeks after his wife goes missing...he'd be looked at closely.

You say you know things but you keep them secret.

Not to be mean, but it's sounds like "neener, neener, neener, I know things you don't know". Why is it such a huge secret?? If it would make us feel better about what is going on here then why are only a "few" privy to this information?

We can only draw our conclusions on what we do know. I don't know any "secret behind the scenes" info to add to what I do know to make me feel differently. But I'm listening for it.... [/*]
:beer: you must have been reading my mind!@

Cury-us Coyote

03-23-2008, 08:35 PM

Search Dogs Look For Missing Man
(includes video)
http://www.kirotv.com/news/15348012/detail.html

After the search dogs leave the staging area, the photographer focuses upon black object(s) inside a large clear plastic bag in what looks like a trunk/vehicle storage area but the black colored bumper does not look like Nicholas's car, IMO. Has anyone identified the unknown objects or their importance? TIA

Musterion

03-23-2008, 08:38 PM

Originally posted by Nellie

Well, in her mind she's a widow. She's said as much by stating she believes he is dead. So, she's a widow ready to move on.

What would we think about a "widower" ready to move on 5 weeks after his wife goes missing?

That's all I'm saying..... [/*]

Hi Nellie,

It is a good point. Because we do view men differently in most cases regarding a missing/murdered spouse.

I would hope that we would look at the circumstances surrounding the person left behind. If he was moving into a new home five weeks after his spouse went missing we might want to ask if that man was dependent on his wife for all of his financial needs. Did he suddenly become solely responsible for the feeding, clothing and necessities of children.

IMO. That would make a difference to the way I looked at a man in a similar situation to this. To whether it would make any sense at all for him to move into a different home.

desmom

03-23-2008, 08:45 PM

Originally posted by Cury-us Coyote
Search Dogs Look For Missing Man
(includes video)
http://www.kirotv.com/news/15348012/detail.html

After the search dogs leave the staging area, the photographer focuses upon black object(s) inside a large clear plastic bag in what looks like a trunk/vehicle storage area but the black colored bumper does not look like Nicholas's car, IMO. Has anyone identified the unknown objects or their importance? TIA [/*]

It looks it is an evidence bag. It could be an article of NF's clothing they used for the tracking dogs or maybe something they found in NF's car. :shrug:

Nellie

03-23-2008, 08:57 PM

Originally posted by Musterion

Hi Nellie,

It is a good point. Because we do view men differently in most cases regarding a missing/murdered spouse.

I would hope that we would look at the circumstances surrounding the person left behind. If he was moving into a new home five weeks after his spouse went missing we might want to ask if that man was dependent on his wife for all of his financial needs. Did he suddenly become solely responsible for the feeding, clothing and necessities of children.

IMO. That would make a difference to the way I looked at a man in a similar situation to this. To whether it would make any sense at all for him to move into a different home. [/*]

Hi Musterion! Good to see you and hope you had a wonderful Easter spent with family!

I do understand what you are saying and had even already considered that. And I still think if it was a man with no income and his working wife went missing and he immediately appealed for money and was ready to move and start a new life after only 5 weeks....there would still be a lot of suspicion directed his way.
Expecially if we had read or seen inconsistencies in things he'd said.

JMO

Cury-us Coyote

03-23-2008, 09:11 PM

http://dw.courts.wa.gov/

FWIW -
Clark Co includes Vancouver
Skagit Co includes Burlington, Concrete, Mount Vernon, Sedro Woolley
King Co includes Seattle
Pierce Co includes Tacoma
Kitsap Co includes Port Orchard
jmo

KKKKKKatie

03-23-2008, 09:17 PM

Originally posted by CAT TOY
http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2006/09/13/righteous/ [/*]

:eek:

Cury-us Coyote

03-23-2008, 09:18 PM

Originally posted by Envision

I think those were articles of clothing he had worn in the past for the dogs to get his scent to find. [/*]

Thanks Envision & Desmom for your replies.

The object on the right looks like the ribbed sole of an athletic shoe, IMO. IA likely the scent objects used. The photo appeared outside of the real-time sequence of activities but concidenced with the spoken word.
jmo

Curiouser

03-23-2008, 09:20 PM

I was showing 8 pages to this thread and now only 7 are showing. Does this mean posts are being removed or what? TIA

KKKKKKatie

03-23-2008, 09:20 PM

Originally posted by Curiouser
I was showing 8 pages to this thread and now only 7 are showing. Does this mean posts are being removed or what? TIA [/*]

it seems so

Cury-us Coyote

03-23-2008, 09:21 PM

Originally posted by Curiouser
I was showing 8 pages to this thread and now only 7 are showing. Does this mean posts are being removed or what? TIA [/*]

Or new math.
jmo

Musterion

03-23-2008, 09:21 PM

Originally posted by Nellie

Hi Musterion! Good to see you and hope you had a wonderful Easter spent with family!

I do understand what you are saying and had even already considered that. And I still think if it was a man with no income and his working wife went missing and he immediately appealed for money and was ready to move and start a new life after only 5 weeks....there would still be a lot of suspicion directed his way.
Expecially if we had read or seen inconsistencies in things he'd said.

JMO [/*]

Thank you! I did/am having a good Easter! I hope you and your family are, too.

I do think that people would definitely jump to conclusions about our hypothetical man! Like, IMO, is being done in this case.

But, then we get into the details of the case such as you are describing above. The way you've summarized the events, IMO, isn't an accurate assessment. Meaning, I don't see there was an immediate appeal made by the spouse. And I don't see moving to a different home as starting a new life. I see these things from a different perspective.

I would have to see the details of the hypothetical man we're talking about before making an opinion on him, too. JMO.

Curiouser

03-23-2008, 09:29 PM

I was just having a look at the "find nicholas francisco" website where they have a long listing including all his vital statistics, education, etc. and under "other habits" its noted that he leaves toast in the toaster. What? Is this something we should be on the lookout for? If someone comes to your home, makes toast and leaves it in the toaster, immediately have a closer look.

field of snow

03-23-2008, 09:30 PM

Originally posted by Cury-us Coyote
http://dw.courts.wa.gov/

FWIW -
Clark Co includes Vancouver
Skagit Co includes Burlington, Concrete, Mount Vernon, Sedro Woolley
King Co includes Seattle
Pierce Co includes Tacoma
Kitsap Co includes Port Orchard
jmo [/*]

I hadn't checked those records yet. Thanks. And because of this, my vote is with his Father again. I don't think he's home either.

n/t

03-23-2008, 09:32 PM

Thanks for the link CT. I think we may be getting closer to finding out one more piece of the puzzle, imo.

Scary stuff. Maybe Nicholas resigned 2 days before his disappearance because he knew he couldn't afford anymore children but that would mean he would have to go against the beliefs of this church.

I'm really afraid for him now. I hope it's not what I'm thinking.:(

Nellie

03-23-2008, 09:32 PM

Originally posted by Musterion

Thank you! I did/am having a good Easter! I hope you and your family are, too.

I do think that people would definitely jump to conclusions about our hypothetical man! Like, IMO, is being done in this case.

But, then we get into the details of the case such as you are describing above. The way you've summarized the events, IMO, isn't an accurate assessment. Meaning, I don't see there was an immediate appeal made by the spouse. And I don't see moving to a different home as starting a new life. I see these things from a different perspective.

I would have to see the details of the hypothetical man we're talking about before making an opinion on him, too. JMO. [/*]

Gotcha musterion! And fair enough! We just see things differently, I guess.

I hope this mystery is solved someday and I hope Nicholas is safe.

flyingfox

03-23-2008, 09:35 PM

Originally posted by CAT TOY
http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2006/09/13/righteous/ [/*]

he sounds very charismatic and persuasive to me......

field of snow

03-23-2008, 09:36 PM

Cat Toy -- I tried to PM you but your cat box is full of litter. Clean it and i'll give you something to chew on.

Grins

03-23-2008, 09:37 PM

Originally posted by field of snow
Cat Toy -- I tried to PM you but your cat box is full of litter. Clean it and i'll give you something to chew on. [/*]
:lol:

flyingfox

03-23-2008, 09:41 PM

Originally posted by Beth
So were Marshall Applewhite and David Koresh. :o [/*]

;)

Musterion

03-23-2008, 09:44 PM

Originally posted by Nellie

Gotcha musterion! And fair enough! We just see things differently, I guess.

I hope this mystery is solved someday and I hope Nicholas is safe. [/*]

I agree with you, my kind friend.

Shelby1

03-23-2008, 09:49 PM

Originally posted by CAT TOY
http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2006/09/13/righteous/ [/*]

:eek: Can we say David Koresh????

flyingfox

03-23-2008, 09:50 PM

Originally posted by ~Barefootin~

Sorry, it seems like I always come to this thread a day late :( but is this 'church' ahem, one that Nicholas belonged to, or what does this link signify?

Also, I skimmed a few posts trying to hurriedly catch up - we have now found out that Nicholas resigned from his company 2 days before he went missing?!??!?

I doubt that's by coincidence, but what does that mean, exactly? :confused: [/*]

This is the church they resigned from 2 days before he disappeared.

Why they resigned and what the significance is is anyones guess.

Shelby1

03-23-2008, 09:50 PM

scubagirl

03-23-2008, 09:51 PM

I must have missed something - where was it stated he resigned 2 days before he went missing?

field of snow

03-23-2008, 09:52 PM

Originally posted by Swarovski

Leaving * toast in a toaster* should be a great clue. Is everyone checking their toaster at the moment? [/*]

Nope. And it's been awhile since i've had a bun in my oven, but that is what I thought the reference was about?? I think someone else thought that too. Kind of odd for a Missing Persons page..

flyingfox

03-23-2008, 09:52 PM

Originally posted by Swarovski

Leaving * toast in a toaster* should be a great clue. Is everyone checking their toaster at the moment? [/*]

Nope no NF, just my teenage sons leaving toast in the toaster....

decor

03-23-2008, 09:56 PM

decor

03-23-2008, 09:59 PM

Originally posted by Swarovski

If true he resigned from his job, and and his church, seems pretty significent to me that something was going to be happening in the not too distance future. Those are dramatic changes in a matter of days to make. [/*]

where does it say he left his job?

n/t

03-23-2008, 10:02 PM

Originally posted by ~Barefootin~

Sorry, it seems like I always come to this thread a day late :( but is this 'church' ahem, one that Nicholas belonged to, or what does this link signify?

Also, I skimmed a few posts trying to hurriedly catch up - we have now found out that Nicholas resigned from his company 2 days before he went missing?!??!?

I doubt that's by coincidence, but what does that mean, exactly? :confused: [/*]

They resigned from Mars Hill Church 2 days before he disappeared. I don't know where you saw that he resigned from his company though. I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere. As far as we know, he left work on 02.13.08 at approx 6:00 to go to Costco to buy organic sugar to bake cookies with his daughter, as per the wife.

decor

03-23-2008, 10:07 PM

Originally posted by andover

Would be considered an assumed resignation by an employer to not show up for work or call in for 5 weeks....IMO [/*]

I was responding to the person that stated that he resigned from his job 2 days before he disappeared.

flyingfox

03-23-2008, 10:07 PM

Originally posted by Swarovski

I was just reading what was posted up the thread. I have no idea if its true, that's why I said *IF*. [/*]

I think you will find the posts were about the church IRT the resignation 2 days prior to dissapearance.

decor

03-23-2008, 10:08 PM

Originally posted by Swarovski

I was just reading what was posted up the thread. I have no idea if its true, that's why I said *IF*. [/*]

OK it is BAREFOOTIN'S fault for starting a rumor LOL

flyingfox

03-23-2008, 10:09 PM

Originally posted by decor

OK it is BAREFOOTIN'S fault for starting a rumor LOL [/*]:biggrin:

decor

03-23-2008, 10:11 PM

Originally posted by andover

Sorry decoy [/*]

that's okay. I reworded my post as it sounded harsh which wasn't what I meant.

RainyNiteNTx

03-23-2008, 10:19 PM

Originally posted by Swarovski

I agree. Is a letter of resignation expected, or you just stop attending? [/*]

He was the volunteer art director IIRC - I would think he would let them know he would no longer be performing those duties.

Danette44

03-23-2008, 10:25 PM

Originally posted by andover
Something that I found odd the first time I heard it....would like to know if anyone else thinks it is odd. The term "resigning from a church" just seems weird to me. You would obviously resign from a job. Any church that I have gone to over the years, when the time came that I no longer wanted to attend for whatever reason, I just stopped going. Does anyone else think it sounds weird to "resign" from a church? Maybe it's just me...who knows. [/*]

Just a thought here. do you suppose the reason to send a letter to resign would be for the accounting purpose - doesn't 10% of their wages have to be paid out of their salary to the church? So in signing the resignation the 10% will be added back into his salary? I know just grasping at straws here. jmoo

Maranatha

03-23-2008, 10:26 PM

Oregongal

03-23-2008, 10:27 PM

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx

He was the volunteer art director IIRC - I would think he would let them know he would no longer be performing those duties. [/*]

That's my thought too Rainy. If he was involved in any way with the church other that just going, he would need to let them know he wouldn't be there anymore.

RainyNiteNTx

03-23-2008, 10:33 PM

Originally posted by Oregongal

That's my thought too Rainy. If he was involved in any way with the church other that just going, he would need to let them know he wouldn't be there anymore. [/*]

It would be the responsible thing to do which falls in line with how he has been described. I sure hope this disappearance was not a carefully orchested plan by MH and someone else to reindoctrinate him.

Oregongal

03-23-2008, 10:34 PM

Originally posted by Beth Engleman

Some churches expect a contract for members to sign stating the amount money they will give the church each month. It is called tithing.

When a member signs this contract, they are obligated for that amount. Should they decided to leave the church they must then explain why they are breaking the contract. They then resign making it official. [/*]

I've never been in a church as a 'contracted' member that had to tithe a certain amount each month, but from what I've read about MH, it could be that kind of church and what you said makes sense. My mom used to belong to a 'member' church, wish she was still alive and I could ask her what the procedure was when she stopped going to that church. I know she tithed, but don't know if it was a 'have to tithe so much each month' thing.

Oregongal

03-23-2008, 10:40 PM

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx

snip*
I sure hope this disappearance was not a carefully orchested plan by MH and someone else to reindoctrinate him. [/*]

I would hope so also, IMO that would mean MH was a cult.
I'm a non-denominational Christian and from what I've read on their site, I don't agree or would follow many of their teachings, my first instinct is that they aren't a cult. But, many cults are very hard to discern.
I have a site that I can go to and check them out, not their site, think I'll do that.
JMO

Musterion

03-23-2008, 10:43 PM

Originally posted by andover
Something that I found odd the first time I heard it....would like to know if anyone else thinks it is odd. The term "resigning from a church" just seems weird to me. You would obviously resign from a job. Any church that I have gone to over the years, when the time came that I no longer wanted to attend for whatever reason, I just stopped going. Does anyone else think it sounds weird to "resign" from a church? Maybe it's just me...who knows. [/*]

From what I understand and from what many churches do, is require a membership class for people interested in committing to the church.

Mars Hill, from what I've read, has a Covenant Agreement that a person would sign after taking the membership class.

They ask this of the new member: "My responsibility will be to notify the Mars Hill leadership if at any time if I can no longer commit to this covenant....."

http://www.marshillchurch.org/audio/GospelClass0307.pdf

Page 103.

IMO. Notify is the word they use. Not resign.

MoonFlwr

03-23-2008, 10:59 PM

Thanks for the link about Mars Hill, CAT TOY.
I guess you did a search on the church?

For those who haven't, there are several sites. Here are two:

http://www.marshillchurch.org/feeds/

http://www.marshillchurch.org/

Fallen Angel

03-23-2008, 11:03 PM

any news today about NF?

TIA

MoonFlwr

03-23-2008, 11:03 PM

http://voxpopnetwork.com/vision/2008/03/18/doctrine-what-christians-should-believe/

To quote:

"Historically, about half of the people who take the class sign a covenant and become church members, and about half leave the church over various doctrines with which they disagree."

Curiouser

03-23-2008, 11:06 PM

CF has posted in her Etsy store that she will be reopening it "as soon I have found a new home and am settled in."

Fallen Angel

03-23-2008, 11:13 PM

Does anyone have the addy for the offical website i can go to and read about everything?

need2no

03-23-2008, 11:14 PM

Originally posted by field of snow

Nope. And it's been awhile since i've had a bun in my oven, but that is what I thought the reference was about?? I think someone else thought that too. Kind of odd for a Missing Persons page.. [/*]

"leaves toast in the toaster"

You're toast means you are in trouble. So could this comment mean he left trouble at home, and is a way to let NF know she found the trouble he left behind, and she is either angry or understands the reason he felt he had to leave? Also possible she could have been sending a message with this disguised comment, perhaps even something they worked out before he left as a means to update him on something without anyone being the wiser... if you know what I mean. Just a thought.

toast=trouble
toaster= place of trouble, troublesome event/situation

need2no

03-23-2008, 11:23 PM

Originally posted by sadiemay62

Of course you are right. Probably another rumor or theory. Never heard the term used when leaving a church. moo [/*]

BY-LAWS:
Members of Mars Hill and all other professing Christians who regularly attend or fellowship with this church who err in doctrine, or who engage in conduct that violates Scripture as determined by any two or more elders, shall be subject to church discipline. Each potential case of discipline will be weighed on its own merits and dealt with according to Scripture.

Members of Mars Hill Church are not guaranteed confidentially regarding issues of church discipline, and understanding that submitting themselves to the authority of the church, issues of a sensitive or personal nature may become known to others. This includes but is not limited to notification to the authorities if a crime has been committed, or if a real threat of someone being endangered exists, as well as other violations of scripture that may not result in physical danger.

Each member of this church and every other professing Christian who regularly attends or fellowships with this church, agrees that there should be no appeal to any court because of a discipline process or dismissal. A member who is under discipline by the church, as defined in the previous paragraphs, forfeits and waives the right to resign from Mars Hill Church. Resignation is possible only by a member who is in good standing and who is not under any disciplinary action.

Those who are members of the church or who regularly participate in church activities may be dismissed from the church by agreement of at least two elders. The dismissal of a church member may be made known to all members.

In the by-laws it says a member who is under discipline by the church, as defined in the previous paragraphs, forfeits and waives the right to resign from Mars Hill church. Resignation is possible only by a member who is good standing, and who is not under any disciplinary action.

http://prayingheart.wordpress.com/2008/01/18/lets-discuss-the-new-by-laws-of-mars-hill-church/

need2no

03-23-2008, 11:24 PM

Originally posted by Beth Engleman

What a brilliant thought and makes sense too. [/*]

Thank you, it's been a long time since anyone told me I had a brillant thought. :biggrin:

Track292003

03-23-2008, 11:26 PM

1) Perhaps in order to officially "notify" the church of his resignation, which - say -- he had delivered over the phone on February 11, he agreed to "sign off" on it -- in writing -- at the end of the work day on February 13. We know that CF said he had to "sign off" on something late that day.

2) Did the police dogs ever try to find his scent in or near the parking spaces where the car was parked before it showed up in the space where it was finally was reported and impounded?

need2no

03-23-2008, 11:27 PM

Originally posted by andover

Good thoughts, when I first saw that I thought WTH and knew there had to be some cryptic message. This makes more sense now. How about the thing with the "couple of cavities"? What the heck could that mean? [/*]

sarcasm-
He has a couple of holes in his head :shrug:

AMS

03-23-2008, 11:29 PM

Originally posted by Beth Engleman

Wonder what church discipline is and what happens to those who sin and then can't resign. [/*]

This is interesting.

http://www.zimbio.com/Christianity/articles/267/Mark+Driscoll+Lie+Mars+Hill+Members

need2no

03-23-2008, 11:30 PM

Originally posted by andover
[QUOTE]Originally posted by need2no

BY-LAWS:
Members of Mars Hill and all other professing Christians who regularly attend or fellowship with this church who err in doctrine, or who engage in conduct that violates Scripture as determined by any two or more elders, shall be subject to church discipline. Each potential case of discipline will be weighed on its own merits and dealt with according to Scripture.

Members of Mars Hill Church are not guaranteed confidentially regarding issues of church discipline, and understanding that submitting themselves to the authority of the church, issues of a sensitive or personal nature may become known to others. This includes but is not limited to notification to the authorities if a crime has been committed, or if a real threat of someone being endangered exists, as well as other violations of scripture that may not result in physical danger.

Each member of this church and every other professing Christian who regularly attends or fellowships with this church, agrees that there should be no appeal to any court because of a discipline process or dismissal. A member who is under discipline by the church, as defined in the previous paragraphs, forfeits and waives the right to resign from Mars Hill Church. Resignation is possible only by a member who is in good standing and who is not under any disciplinary action.

Those who are members of the church or who regularly participate in church activities may be dismissed from the church by agreement of at least two elders. The dismissal of a church member may be made known to all members.

In the by-laws it says a member who is under discipline by the church, as defined in the previous paragraphs, forfeits and waives the right to resign from Mars Hill church. Resignation is possible only by a member who is good standing, and who is not under any disciplinary action.

Is worded kind of like a real job, if you get fired you can't voluntarily resign....a bit scary...huh? [/*]

Sounds scary to me. If a church asked me to sign agreeing to something like this I would bolt for the nearest door!

isitme

03-23-2008, 11:31 PM

Fallen Angel

03-23-2008, 11:35 PM

Originally posted by CAT TOY
IT's part of the case if you dont like it dont read here, go back to your site. The fact he had to Resign, is significant. So is the fact that his family is catholic and doesnt belong to this cult. [/*]what cult? and do you have a link i can read about this case? Thank you Cat

RainyNiteNTx

03-23-2008, 11:39 PM

Curiouser

03-23-2008, 11:41 PM

Originally posted by need2no

sarcasm-
He has a couple of holes in his head :shrug: [/*]

I looked at this site again and it mentions his "Passions" as being "fonts". Would someone really find fonts so interesting that it would be a passion with them? Maybe he just needed some excitement in his life so he left to find it!

Cury-us Coyote

03-23-2008, 11:45 PM

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx

http://www.franciscodesign.com/design/

Vox Pop

Volunteer art director of a montly newspaper for Mars Hill Church. [/*]

Voice of the People
http://voxpopnetwork.com/

Fallen Angel

03-23-2008, 11:46 PM

wow i hope he's ok and found soon .......i'm going read some links about the case. bbl

Curiouser

03-23-2008, 11:46 PM

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
.... and I'm still wondering what church discipline is and what happens to those who sin and then can't resign.

Anybody? [/*]

Maybe they aren't allowed to resign because they want to be able to publicly and spectacularly kick them out.

Curiouser

03-23-2008, 11:49 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by CAT TOY
WTH is that; a newsletter for them? What, is VoxPop? You know I love his designs, he has talent for sure. No one wants to do art for free, unless it's for something you believe in; or for exposure....:shrug: [/*][/QUOTE

I believe VoxPop is Voice of the People.

need2no

03-23-2008, 11:54 PM

Originally posted by CAT TOY
Ouch, heck yes. It does make more sense doesnt it; when you think of it that way lol. Nice to have a chuckle although after reading what they were involved in; the depths of whatever this doctrine was; to me; a cult. Significant. N2n I always thought that that toast comment meant exactly what it says. A bun in the oven, and a cryptic message at that. Unkind, uncaring, callous.
CT [/*]

Since descriptive info on a missing poster is supposed to be used to help identify, or track down a missing person, the cavities comment is odd.
If he is with someone he just met they would hardly know he had cavities unless he complained about them, and who would even think of the missing man poster they noted on a telephone pole which said the man had cavities and link that to NF complaining of cavities that need to be fixed.
If found dead I doubt cavities would be the most helpful or identifying piece of info used to determine the deceased's identity.
The scar and mole, yes, cavities, no. Millions of men are probably walking around with cavities.

Personally I have never seen this on a missing person flyer. I have seen: has excessive silver fillings, false teeth, gap in teeth, braces, even very yellow colored teeth (most of which could be identified by the naked eye), but not cavities. So all I could think of why she said this was to imply he has holes in his head that need to be fixed. Maybe the cryptic message to him was take care of your mess.

As for the toaster comment...why tell him something he already knows? NF is well aware he walked out on his pregnant wife, no mystery there, unless it was just a means of being snarky and cut throat.

mc528

03-24-2008, 12:00 AM

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
I think fonts could be exciting..... especially if you are trying to duplicate documents. [/*]

I had a similar thought.

need2no

03-24-2008, 12:01 AM

Originally posted by Beth Engleman
I think fonts could be exciting..... especially if you are trying to duplicate documents. [/*]

:beer:

need2no

03-24-2008, 12:07 AM

Originally posted by CAT TOY
It's totally cut throat. And totally NOT the person presented to the public. I've always cringed when I read that on the flyer online. All I could think of was who would say something like that about their loved one? One their MISSING POSTER~~~~ Absolutely, I am sure LE has PLENTY to work with and I hope they find him. i really do. If they felt that this doctrine was the be all end all splitting up would never be an option for Nicholas F, just like it WASNT FOR MARY WINKLER.
I see the same type of thing. ANd yes, I was very outspoken about Coc and feel it is a cult as well. Same type of mentality. MW was trapped. No reason NF couldnt feel trapped as well.

So; this actually gives me HOPE tonight that he is ALIVE somewhere and getting a good atty lined up because he will need it; and from what I've seen so far and read, he wont have a bit of trouble. I hope he's alive. This all has given me a new perspective on this case as of tonight. A Break Through in my eyes...for Certain.

I honestly thought that when a few had posted about his church that it was just a regular baptist type church, nothing out of the norm. This is so Koresh in nature, you can smell it.
CT [/*]

When I originally found the Mars Hill bylaws (and was shocked at what I read), and posted this and a bit more about the church on the NF board, ppl posted page after page in response to mine and there was loads of discussion about the church and religious groups all day. The very same night was when the NO MORE INFO TO THE PUBLIC message was put on the family page...I found this timing quite interesting.

LiLMaggie

03-24-2008, 12:13 AM

I wonder if any of the other missing men were members of that church?

LiLMaggie

03-24-2008, 12:20 AM

Originally posted by Beth Engleman

Good question...how would we find out since that information is usually not made public. [/*]I don't know, but think it's something that needs looked into.

dianaelaine

03-24-2008, 12:25 AM

Originally posted by SeattleEddie
I haven't had a chance to catch up on the boards, yet, but wanted to say........ I just got back from watching a movie on Queen Anne. Afterwards we walked around the neighborhood for a while (in the rain). It's the same neighborhood where Publicis is located. I didn't see a single flyer. Not on telephone poles, in neighboring businesses, at bus stops, nothing...... [/*]

Eddie, my son said there were flyers everywhere in White Center and SW of Seattle ... I'm not sure if that's near Queen Anne or not. Is it?

SeattleEddie

03-24-2008, 12:43 AM

Originally posted by dianaelaine

Eddie, my son said there were flyers everywhere in White Center and SW of Seattle ... I'm not sure if that's near Queen Anne or not. Is it? [/*]

no, it's very far away. I live in West Seattle, by a very popular beach, and no flyers here either.

need2no

03-24-2008, 12:51 AM

Originally posted by andover
I think it is more than coincidental that his laptop has not been found. You know he would never part with that, after all don't forget "he wore it like a wedding ring"

WTH does that mean somebody? [/*]

WTH...I've already tossed out my 2 cents about the toast and the cavities so why not respond to this one too :)...

Two things that were important and NF always had with him...his wedding band and his laptop, and he wouldn't part with either, OR his laptop and whatever it held in it he treasured and carried it everywhere with him like most loving husbands would treasure their wedding rings.

When I originally read this on the missing flyer the thought passed my mind that perhaps she had discovered his wedding band left at home, and was sending yet another message to him; your marriage and your work (or whatever) was on your lap top WERE the most important things to you...now it appears the marriage wasn't near as important as whatever was contained in your laptop since you took IT with you. (Of course she could have felt this way even if she didn't discover his wedding ring.)

need2no

03-24-2008, 12:52 AM

Originally posted by Beth

We haven't ruled that out either. [/*]

:biggrin:

need2no

03-24-2008, 12:56 AM

Originally posted by Beth
I like your brain, need2no. :) [/*]

Let's just say GMTA! :)

SeattleEddie

03-24-2008, 12:59 AM

If all those stmts are seen as veiled messages:

He abandons his responsibilities

He cares more for his laptop (business, online relationships, hobbies) that he does for his marriage

I don't get the cavities? except as an aide to body identification.......we've talked about this before.......

But let's say they are veiled messages. It goes to the walking theory.

My thoughts: the marriage was troubled, and he had already communicated his intent to leave when he was confronted with the pregnancy.

The pregnancy was rationalized as keeping with church teachings. (I posted that salon link a few days ago to back up this theory.)

They argued. She wants to keep him, apologizes, and suggested leaving the church to save the marriage. No more kids after this, let's work it out.......

He is furious, feels trapped. Says he is leaving. Tells her. And then leaves. He tells her he is going. A few days later he calls his family to tell them where he is. We know the rest, including the veiled communications.

That's my theory. All speculations my own opinions.

LiLMaggie

03-24-2008, 01:00 AM

Originally posted by sadiemay62

I had no idea that anyone would actually think this Church had something to do with Nicholas's disappearance. It isn't part of this case though. At least not yet. The LE has said nothing about it.

BTW, I would guess that Coldwater will want us to stop discussing this Church and move on. Calling a Church a cult, among other things, probably isn't a good idea on a public message board. MOO [/*]Since he went missing 2 days after he resigned, it could be significant. We don't know, and neither do you.

JMO

ThruTheTrees

03-24-2008, 01:00 AM

Originally posted by andover

In fact, I do think that is what happened. How else could someone be gone "without a trace". Aliens is the only thing that makes any sense. [/*]

That has been one of my top theories all along. It wouldn't be the first time...

;)

need2no

03-24-2008, 01:01 AM

Originally posted by Beth Engleman

Interesting idea and what a message that would send if she found his ring and then he didn't come home that night.

I'm sure it wouldn't be the first marriage ending like that. [/*]

I just reasoned that maybe NF wanted a way to let her know he was ok and no harm had come to him, and this would explain why she has come off as cold hearted and no loving messages of sincere sounding care and concern for the hubby.

ThruTheTrees

03-24-2008, 01:03 AM

Originally posted by SeattleEddie
If all those stmts are seen as veiled messages:

He abandons his responsibilities

He cares more for his laptop (business, online relationships, hobbies) that he does for his marriage

I don't get the cavities? except as an aide to body identification.......we've talked about this before.......

But let's say they are veiled messages. It goes to the walking theory.

My thoughts: the marriage was troubled, and he had already communicated his intent to leave when he was confronted with the pregnancy.

The pregnancy was rationalized as keeping with church teachings. (I posted that salon link a few days ago to back up this theory.)

They argued. She wants to keep him, apologizes, and suggested leaving the church to save the marriage. No more kids after this, let's work it out.......

He is furious, feels trapped. Says he is leaving. Tells her. And then leaves. He tells her he is going. A few days later he calls his family to tell them where he is. We know the rest, including the veiled communications.

That's my theory. All speculations my own opinions. [/*]

How would the sisters having prayer vigils at their respective Catholic churches in Oregon fit in with your theory? I mean, why would they do that if he had called his family and told them where he is? That was a couple weeks after he disappeared, I think.

flyingfox

03-24-2008, 01:03 AM

Originally posted by Beth

We haven't ruled that out either. [/*]

just gotta work out which quadrant they originated from ;)

SeattleEddie

03-24-2008, 01:04 AM

N2N, exactly ITA with your thoughts. I was posting and didn't see yours, but right on!

flyingfox

03-24-2008, 01:06 AM

need2no

03-24-2008, 01:07 AM

Originally posted by Beth

So it's only plausible if LE says so? Good one! :tongue: [/*]

And of course we know LE would immediately share their thoughts on this with the public if there was anything to it. ;)

K Anne

03-24-2008, 01:10 AM

Originally posted by Curiouser

I looked at this site again and it mentions his "Passions" as being "fonts". Would someone really find fonts so interesting that it would be a passion with them? Maybe he just needed some excitement in his life so he left to find it! [/*]

If you know people in the various niches of the tech industry, they can be passionate about all manner of things that make zero sense to someone who ...is NOT passionate about them. Believe it or not some people are passionate about fonts. Just sayin.

K Anne

03-24-2008, 01:14 AM

Originally posted by need2no

"leaves toast in the toaster"

You're toast means you are in trouble. So could this comment mean he left trouble at home, and is a way to let NF know she found the trouble he left behind, and she is either angry or understands the reason he felt he had to leave? Also possible she could have been sending a message with this disguised comment, perhaps even something they worked out before he left as a means to update him on something without anyone being the wiser... if you know what I mean. Just a thought.

toast=trouble
toaster= place of trouble, troublesome event/situation [/*]

Phooey. It's just toast. I took that line to mean something light-hearted, an inside joke, not meaningful in terms of the case or so much in terms of his disappearance, but more something to say "I love you and I am not so mad that I can't forgive; please just come home to me."

I can see writing something like this if ever I were in same circumstances.

My husband leaves toast in the toaster too. Not a big deal IMO.

LilOsmommy

03-24-2008, 01:14 AM

Originally posted by andover
I think it is more than coincidental that his laptop has not been found. You know he would never part with that, after all don't forget "he wore it like a wedding ring"
WTH does that mean somebody?[/*]

Graphic designers love their Macs,(and Fonts!:D ) so I just take it to mean he was never without it, just like his wedding ring. Since the www.findnicholasfrancisco.com was created by a friend of his, it sounds to me as though some of the answers might have been dictated to him..as in..Dental history?...umm, couple of cavities..any habits? well..he's always leaving toast in the toaster - or perhaps he did so at work - and that bit was left on the site, perhaps as a weird attempt at humor. (not the best place for it, imo) I don't really read anything more into the info that's listed on that site.

Mars Hill creeps me out, don't know if they have anything to do with NF missing but I haven't seen many good opinions of it online, especially concerning Mark Driscoll. Check out the reviews here, there are some interesting ones...

http://www.yelp.com/biz/mars-hill-church-seattle

for ex: "I hesitated a bit before writing this review, afraid that Pastor Mark Driscoll would send his goon squad after me to take out my kneecaps with a Jesus Baton(tm)"

Huh??

or here: http://tinyurl.com/32wn4f

read "The Rabble Rousing Woman"

"She had a run in with Mark Driscoll; while she and her husband where trying to work it out with him, Mark told her husband, in no uncertain terms, that he’d better shut his wife up or he (Mark) would shut her up for him. The woman’s offense? In the course of a discussion with other church members she had mentioned that she wanted to work part-time when she and her husband had children."

If anything, it may explain why they resigned!

SeattleEddie

03-24-2008, 01:17 AM

Originally posted by ThruTheTrees

How would the sisters having prayer vigils at their respective Catholic churches in Oregon fit in with your theory? I mean, why would they do that if he had called his family and told them where he is? That was a couple weeks after he disappeared, I think. [/*]

The vigils took place between leaving and calling his family (?)

I thought the vigils were more recent than two weeks after his leaving. Like, a week later..... I don't remember. But they don't seem to be looking for him now.

I don't know why the family then hasn't called a press conference to announce he is safe. If this is true.

Another possibility is that he went overseas with his father to "get away from it all." Because his father is apparently going through his own separation.

All speculation strictly my opinion.

flyingfox

03-24-2008, 01:17 AM

Originally posted by LilOsmommy

Graphic designers love their Macs,(and Fonts!:D ) so I just take it to mean he was never without it, just like his wedding ring. Since the www.findnicholasfrancisco.com was created by a friend of his, it sounds to me as though some of the answers might have been dictated to him..as in..Dental history?...umm, couple of cavities..any habits? well..he's always leaving toast in the toaster - or perhaps he did so at work - and that bit was left on the site, perhaps as a weird attempt at humor. (not the best place for it, imo) I don't really read anything more into the info that's listed on that site.

Mars Hill creeps me out, don't know if they have anything to do with NF missing but I haven't seen many good opinions of it online, especially concerning Mark Driscoll. Check out the reviews here, there are some interesting ones...

http://www.yelp.com/biz/mars-hill-church-seattle

for ex: "I hesitated a bit before writing this review, afraid that Pastor Mark Driscoll would send his goon squad after me to take out my kneecaps with a Jesus Baton(tm)"

Huh??

or here: http://tinyurl.com/32wn4f

read "The Rabble Rousing Woman"

"She had a run in with Mark Driscoll; while she and her husband where trying to work it out with him, Mark told her husband, in no uncertain terms, that he’d better shut his wife up or he (Mark) would shut her up for him. The woman’s offense? In the course of a discussion with other church members she had mentioned that she wanted to work part-time when she and her husband had children."

If anything, it may explain why they resigned! [/*]

OMG I wonder what he thought about CF working in the home with her 3 online business, or are there more than three, I have lost count.

Cury-us Coyote

03-24-2008, 01:19 AM

Originally posted by CAT TOY
http://www.marshillchurch.org/audio/vp_december2005.pdf

So this is from 2005 he was with them for some time....
CT [/*]

Nicholas is not listed as layout & design in November of 2007.
http://www.marshillchurch.org/audio/1107_voxpop.pdf

SeattleEddie

03-24-2008, 01:21 AM

Originally posted by CAT TOY
Actually this case is even more fraught with fraud than MBS case was, I remember how angry and upset everyone was on the board when she was found alive. I was so happy I cried....i was not angry at her. These circumstances are just worse imo and I would think he must be pretty scared, and horribly upset if alive.
I would suggest a good Atty; and I almost can fully understand WHY his family has been silent. They must know where he is.
Since we've all read the state law and what it entails I can see why he would be completely silent for now if he's alive. There is a huge part of me that hopes he will surface much like Beth did, with atty at his side to protect HIS interests, which seemed to continually be glossed over by some that are writing about this case. I can see now why this couple didnt feel they could take care of themselves, with so many ppl involved in their lives, how could anyone feel stable or financially set if they were forced by a doctrine to rely on anothers income. Horrible. We take ten steps forward and fifty backwards with teachings like this. No wonder donations were asked for, the victim & helpless aspect. If that is what your taught, then that is what you believe.
Thing is, this just isnt true. I saw this as a strong couple. Both with degrees and both able to financially care for themselves. Easily.
I wonder what made NF change his mind about "their" beliefs? This all makes me understand his mothers interview more so....
And I could see why they would want to "shield" him. If they are. [/*]
Great points, CT. The fear factor.

ThruTheTrees

03-24-2008, 01:23 AM

Originally posted by LilOsmommy

Graphic designers love their Macs,(and Fonts!:D ) so I just take it to mean he was never without it, just like his wedding ring. Since the www.findnicholasfrancisco.com was created by a friend of his, it sounds to me as though some of the answers might have been dictated to him..as in..Dental history?...umm, couple of cavities..any habits? well..he's always leaving toast in the toaster - or perhaps he did so at work - and that bit was left on the site, perhaps as a weird attempt at humor. (not the best place for it, imo) I don't really read anything more into the info that's listed on that site.

Mars Hill creeps me out, don't know if they have anything to do with NF missing but I haven't seen many good opinions of it online, especially concerning Mark Driscoll. Check out the reviews here, there are some interesting ones...

http://www.yelp.com/biz/mars-hill-church-seattle

for ex: "I hesitated a bit before writing this review, afraid that Pastor Mark Driscoll would send his goon squad after me to take out my kneecaps with a Jesus Baton(tm)"

Huh??

or here: http://tinyurl.com/32wn4f

read "The Rabble Rousing Woman"

"She had a run in with Mark Driscoll; while she and her husband where trying to work it out with him, Mark told her husband, in no uncertain terms, that he’d better shut his wife up or he (Mark) would shut her up for him. The woman’s offense? In the course of a discussion with other church members she had mentioned that she wanted to work part-time when she and her husband had children."

If anything, it may explain why they resigned! [/*]

That's pretty intense. I've thought about the possibility that they might have done some sort of "intervention"... not sure if they do that or what it would have consisted of.

It would be helpful if there is anyone from the church (or better, someone "formerly" from the church, and that knows the Franciscos) reading these boards, if they would register and share any insights to all of this. Hopefully if there is even a possible connection, someone has talked to LE by now about it. There are a fair number of Mark Driscoll detractors out there now I think.

K Anne

03-24-2008, 01:23 AM

Originally posted by CAT TOY
I never saw any of his logos or art work he did for them. I would imagine it was also another burden placed on his shoulders we havn't thought of. Being expected to also produce art for free, for god?? Interesting, sad too. No wonder his family isnt saying a word. Would you if you felt you didnt fit in with your family or their beliefs? Maybe he did walk away; if he did I hope he is somewhere safe. And, from the get go; Nick is the one that needs our help; the publics help......he is the one in trouble here.
Probably emotionally. :shrug: If true how freaking sad.
CT [/*]

I'd venture to say that NF is a believer and has a strong foundation in the church (whether Catholic or the MHC brand of Christianity), and if he is a graphic designer, and passionate about fonts, it's probably no skin off his nose to create art for free, for God, for whichever church he participates with.

Also FWIW, many families suspend judgment of their adult children's choices in faith; that the adult child (or sibling or what have you) is among others in a kinship of faith, is enough, particularly if the adult child's faith community is supportive of that child when he or she is in crisis, or needs counsel, etc.

"Would you if you felt you didn't fit in with your family or their beliefs?" Who feels that?

Just because MHC has been painted by journalists and disgruntled ex-members as cultish or scary etc. does not make it a cult. You really could call any religion a cult; you could call television a cult. It doesn't mean it doesn't also have its virtues, its purpose, its legitimate benefit to most members.

BTW I had the same reaction when I first read that link last month. But I see MHC has merit, even if its most renowned participants are obnoxious or even obviously toxic.