Discuss the Maria Lauterbach case [Archive]

daniel green

03-20-2008, 07:37 PM

http://www.ocme.unc.edu/rules/guidelines.shtml

. The ME must make a record of his/her findings and of the circumstances of the death on the "Report of Investigation form and on such diagrams, etc., as may be needed to completely document the case. These records are to be sent to the OCME within 14 days of notification of the death. The ME should keep a copy of all documents for his/her records.

9. As the official" document of a public official, the medical examiner's Report of Investigation reflects on the medical examiner, the medical profession, and on the medical examiner system. , the medical profession, and on the medical examiner system. Examiners should try to make it as legible as possible, complete, and relevant. This report may be the only record (other than the death certificate) prepared in connection with this death. The findings of an ME investigation may be critical to the resolution of a variety of legal and social issues. Medical abbreviations may pose problems for many non-medical people who read the reports.

10. The ME Report of Investigation and the autopsy report once received and reviewed at the OCME are public records.

11. The ME must complete the "Medical Examiner Certificate of Death" on every case over which he/she assumes jurisdiction. ALL copies of the certificate are to be forwarded to the local Registrar of the County of death, usually through the funeral home handling the final disposition of the body. A death under ME jurisdiction CANNOT be certified on a non-medical examiner death certificate.

12. If the cause and/or manner of death is not known or for some other reason the death certificate diagnoses cannot be immediately completed, the certificate should be marked as pending" and forwarded as noted above. A supplemental death certificate can be filed later with the local registrar. Please bear in mind that the completion and filing of the death certificate is often crucial to families of decedents in order to settle estates, collect insurance and resolve other death-related matters. Medical examiners should do all they can to insure that no unnecessary delays occur in generating this important document.

13. Only rarely would any medical examiner take custody of the property or valuables of a decedent. Wallets, jewelry, and the like can be transferred to the possession of law enforcement officers, funeral directors, or family members. It should be noted on the investigation report what disposition is made of any personal effects especially the more valuable personal property. Please exercise caution regarding the leaving of valuables with a body that is put in an unsecured morgue facility.

14. Bodies should be released only to the next of kin or their agents.

gaelicpeas

03-20-2008, 07:37 PM

I hope everybody knows to come over to this holiday forum...

IvySterling

03-20-2008, 07:41 PM

Dental Report I received attached to Autopsy Report
Part One:
http://i29.tinypic.com/16c9r14.jpg
Part Two:
http://i27.tinypic.com/2ue76na.jpg

daniel green

03-20-2008, 07:42 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
Did I read this report correctly by the OC ME to say that she was unclothed? TIA [/*]

I don't think so.

On bottom of pg 2 it says Clothing_____________
___ not clothed

Valuables: _____________
___ no valuables

daniel green

03-20-2008, 07:43 PM

Originally posted by IvySterling
Dental Report I received attached to Autopsy Report
Part One:
http://i29.tinypic.com/16c9r14.jpg
Part Two:
http://i27.tinypic.com/2ue76na.jpg [/*]

Ivy, yes, that was attached with the autopsy report pdf.

IvySterling

03-20-2008, 07:44 PM

Originally posted by daniel green

Ivy, yes, that was attached with the autopsy report pdf. [/*]
Thanks daniel, I posted it for nuttin as she didn't get it.

gaelicpeas

03-20-2008, 07:45 PM

Originally posted by daniel green

I don't think so.

On bottom of pg 2 it says Clothing_____________
___ not clothed

Valuables: _____________
___ no valuables [/*]

Okay, thanks, I couldn't tell if those were added comments (not clothed, no valuables) or check boxes, since usually the blanks are either before or after, not one after, one before.

nuttintodo

03-20-2008, 07:46 PM

I beg to differ as to whether this is a prelim report versus an actual autopsy.

If you remember back when we found out the COD, it was reported (and I think it was either SB or Hudson or someone from their respective offices) stated on camera the COD was Blunt Force Trauma to the Head. Also during this presser, it was stated that Maria's body had been taken over to Onslow Memorial Hospital for examination and then her body would be transferred to the NC ME's Office in Chapel Hill for a FULL autopsy. There is NO mention of Maria's baby in this paper report other than it stating she was 8 months pregnant.

The electronic copy that we received, as well as the one JDNews has online is the FULL autopsy report. Also in the electronic copy the baby is mentioned and tells us about the state of the baby, etc.

So this IR is the PRELIMINARY, not the full autopsy. JMHO

Now onto the pictures that I uploaded of this paper report.

This is what's on the front page:

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn213/Nuttins198/100_1300.jpg

http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn213/Nuttins198/?action=view&current=100_1301.jpg

http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn213/Nuttins198/?action=view&current=100_1302.jpg

http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn213/Nuttins198/?action=view&current=100_1304.jpg

http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn213/Nuttins198/?action=view&current=100_1305.jpg

Page 2 of IR:

http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn213/Nuttins198/?action=view&current=100_1306.jpg

http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn213/Nuttins198/?action=view&current=100_1307.jpg

http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn213/Nuttins198/?action=view&current=100_1308.jpg

Back page of IR:

http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn213/Nuttins198/?action=view&current=100_1310.jpg

http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn213/Nuttins198/?action=view&current=100_1315.jpg

NOTE: Page 3 is the diagrams with nothing marked on them.

nuttintodo

03-20-2008, 07:48 PM

Originally posted by IvySterling
Dental Report I received attached to Autopsy Report
Part One:
http://i29.tinypic.com/16c9r14.jpg
Part Two:
http://i27.tinypic.com/2ue76na.jpg [/*]

Yes Ivy I did get that in the electronic copy. I thought you meant hard copy.

Thanks though!!

nuttintodo

03-20-2008, 07:53 PM

Okay now I see what you are saying daniel!

This is the paper report as to what Dr. Garrett saw, etc. on 1/11 through 1/12/08.

This is not the full autopsy as that was performed at the NC ME's office on 1/14/08.

Maybe my terminology usage is wrong, that why I said it was a prelim as it wasn't the full autopsy.

Hope I made sense with the above.

JMO

IvySterling

03-20-2008, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

Yes Ivy I did get that in the electronic copy. I thought you meant hard copy.

Thanks though!! [/*]
LOL, okies, just wanted to make sure you had it. I didn't ask for a hard copy to be mailed, just via email.

scillak

03-20-2008, 08:05 PM

Just bringing the dates over from the prior thread...

Onset of Injuy +/- 12/16/07 Time :?

Death 12/16/07 time: ?

View of body: 1/12/08 time: 0915

ME notified: 1/11/08 time: +/- 1630.

Last known to be aliave: 12/15/07 time: ?

henry

03-20-2008, 08:09 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
I hope everybody knows to come over to this holiday forum... [/*]

thanks for the invite!

don't mean to interrupt but i've noticed some of us doing a tippie toe ballet dance today . . . until we can get clarification from c/w on monday, a poster (who shall remain unnamed) pm'd me this suggestion . . . what do you folks think?

"I think re a person's name not already published by media might have to be announced like 'hey I found out a person's associated with CL pm me for info'"

strick10

03-20-2008, 08:12 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
I hope everybody knows to come over to this holiday forum... [/*]

I found myself all alone and talking to myself on the other board page......till I tried to post and it wouldn't let me. Figured y'all would be on the holiday board. Now I can't remember what I was saying! :seeya: gpeas

nuttintodo

03-20-2008, 08:13 PM

Originally posted by henry

thanks for the invite!

don't mean to interrupt but i've noticed some of us doing a tippie toe ballet dance today . . . until we can get clarification from c/w on monday, a poster (who shall remain unnamed) pm'd me this suggestion . . . what do you folks think?

"I think re a person's name not already published by media might have to be announced like 'hey I found out a person's associated with CL pm me for info'" [/*]

I concur, that is the best thing to do.

caejde

03-20-2008, 08:15 PM

I just wanted to post something as far as the pregnancy goes. This report that has just been posted does mention Maria at being 8 months. And I think that is just because what was told. If I'm not mistaken, it was said they didn't know the baby's gestational age. Anyway, I just wanted to post something as to weeks vs. months of pregnancy. Month 8 encompasses weeks 31-35. And month 9 encompasses weeks 36-40.

nuttintodo

03-20-2008, 08:17 PM

Matter of fact, here is a picture of Dr. Garrett (the grey haired gentleman) at the Laurean residence.

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn213/Nuttins198/slideshow_374216_Missing_Marine_NCL.jpg

ETA: Here is a article over at JDNews.com about Dr. Garrett, that was published on 12/19/07.

http://www.jdnews.com/news/garrett_53889___article.html/death_someone.html

nuttintodo

03-20-2008, 08:26 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

So he did respond? I wouldn't be surprised because they had to exhume the body. Nice looking man. [/*]

I edited my post before yours.

And yes he did respond to the scene. IIRC he went on both days: 1/11/08 and 1/12/08.

Here's an article about Dr. Garrett that is over at JDNews.com.

http://www.jdnews.com/news/garrett_53889___article.html/death_someone.html

strick10

03-20-2008, 08:27 PM

Originally posted by caejde
I just wanted to post something as far as the pregnancy goes. This report that has just been posted does mention Maria at being 8 months. And I think that is just because what was told. If I'm not mistaken, it was said they didn't know the baby's gestational age. Anyway, I just wanted to post something as to weeks vs. months of pregnancy. Month 8 encompasses weeks 31-35. And month 9 encompasses weeks 36-40. [/*]

I agree w/ you on this caejde.

strick10

03-20-2008, 08:29 PM

henry

03-20-2008, 08:38 PM

Originally posted by strick10

I may be traumatized from talking to myself earlier.....I don't get what you're saying. [/*]

okay . . . let me give this a try :) . . . in prior days/weeks/months some people here have found out information that may or may not be relative to this case. that information may include a person's name. if that person's name has NOT been mentioned in a news article, video or other type of published media . . . that person's name should not be typed on a public message board. that person's name, however, can be made available to those posters that want it by pm'ing the person that posted "quote above" or words similar to that.

how'd i do?

strick10

03-20-2008, 08:44 PM

Originally posted by henry

okay . . . let me give this a try :) . . . in prior days/weeks/months some people here have found out information that may or may not be relative to this case. that information may include a person's name. if that person's name has NOT been mentioned in a news article, video or other type of published media . . . that person's name should not be typed on a public message board. that person's name, however, can be made available to those posters that want it by pm'ing the person that posted "quote above" or words similar to that.

how'd i do? [/*]

Ohhhhhhhh, okay. I say yes.

SavannahStar

03-20-2008, 08:45 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
I hope everybody knows to come over to this holiday forum... [/*]

:seeya:

henry

03-20-2008, 08:46 PM

Originally posted by strick10

Ohhhhhhhh, okay. I say yes. [/*]

fewf! i should have changed "public message board" to "in session message board" cause i think (?) other message boards do allow this . . . jmo

SavannahStar

03-20-2008, 08:48 PM

Originally posted by strick10

I may be traumatized from talking to myself earlier.....I don't get what you're saying. [/*]

:lol:

nuttintodo

03-20-2008, 08:50 PM

Originally posted by strick10

I may be traumatized from talking to myself earlier.....I don't get what you're saying. [/*]

Strick what were you saying to yourself? Were you :cuss: 'ing or sumptin? :D

strick10

03-20-2008, 08:55 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

Strick what were you saying to yourself? Were you :cuss: 'ing or sumptin? :D [/*]

I wasn't :cuss: that time. Must've been a bad convo as I can't remember what I had posted, what I was saying or thinking.

SavannahStar

03-20-2008, 08:56 PM

Originally posted by old_lady
I wondered if anyone else noticed the ME wrote in his report "This US Marine ect ect.
I found that most respectful. He could have written just white female.

Also the dentist said she had beautiful teeth. I found that special also.

Just some thoughts. [/*]

That was nice, good observations, old lady.

strick10

03-20-2008, 08:59 PM

Originally posted by nelkirk
One thing about this case:

Don't get hung up on a specific date it can change in a heartbeat!!! [/*]

That it can and probably will in the end. I think it happened on the 15th sometime.

crymeariver2006

03-20-2008, 09:01 PM

Originally posted by strick10

That it can and probably will in the end. I think it happened on the 15th sometime. [/*]

I think late 14th, very early 15th.

(I like to cover all my bases :D )

henry

03-20-2008, 09:04 PM

Originally posted by strick10

That it can and probably will in the end. I think it happened on the 15th sometime. [/*]

i think so too but what hangs me up is her cell phone being turned off, iirc, when her mom tried to call her that nite. i personally don't think maria turned her phone off . . . jmo.

strick10

03-20-2008, 09:15 PM

Originally posted by henry

i think so too but what hangs me up is her cell phone being turned off, iirc, when her mom tried to call her that nite. i personally don't think maria turned her phone off . . . jmo. [/*]

I haven't quite made up my mind on the cell phone issue.

SavannahStar

03-20-2008, 09:17 PM

Originally posted by strick10

I haven't quite made up my mind on the cell phone issue. [/*]

I have not either strick.

henry

03-20-2008, 09:22 PM

Originally posted by strick10

I haven't quite made up my mind on the cell phone issue. [/*]

what's hanging you up (no pun intended) either way . . . the date - where it was found . . . ???

strick10

03-20-2008, 09:22 PM

From the report that was posted earlier: Am I understanding this right, the painting to cover up evidence happened in the garage only? Am I to assume that cleaning up evidence in the home is the only thing that happened, no paint?

henry

03-20-2008, 09:27 PM

Originally posted by strick10
From the report that was posted earlier: Am I understanding this right, the painting to cover up evidence happened in the garage only? Am I to assume that cleaning up evidence in the home is the only thing that happened, no paint? [/*]

well, from one painter to another, those living room walls looked pretty glossy to me the way the sun reflected off them - probably semi-gloss or eggshell . . . and that's quite washable. i think they missed the interior ceilings . . . iirc, sbrown mentioned blood spatters (?) there. the garage looks to me like flat white cause you can see the spackle marks thru the paint . . . jmo

strick10

03-20-2008, 09:27 PM

Originally posted by henry

what's hanging you up (no pun intended) either way . . . the date - where it was found . . . ??? [/*]

Well I can see Maria being p.o.'d and annoyed that she could've thrown out the phone herself. I know I would if I were that annoyed/irritated. If she was leaving she probably wanted to leave it all behind and a cell phone ringing off the hook would be annoying if she didn't want to talk to anyone, she would've eventually chucked it. Of course someone else could've thrown it out. The location is what has me stumped. I need to re-evaluate the map again and really think about it.

henry

03-20-2008, 09:29 PM

Originally posted by nelkirk

Me too.

Sunset on the 12/14 was at 1830 and Sunrise on the 12/15 was at 0634...so there was close to twelve hours of darkness.

The temperatures for the 12/14 were in the mid 60s until 1700, then in the 50s until 2200 then dropped into the mid to high 40s for the rest of the night.

On the 12/15 the temperature at daybreak was 46 degrees and dropped into the 40s throughout the rest of the 15th and into the early hours of the 16th

It was too warm to prevent body decomp during 12/14-12/16

Although it would be good "digging weather"

ETA to correct 12/14 [/*]

honest . . . i was just over at farmer's almanac checking to see if tonite's the full moon (it sure looks like it out my window) but it's not til tomorrow nite . . . and then i was glancing at the moon dates for dec-07 and jan-08 . . . here's the link
http://www.almanac.com/astronomy/moondays.php

strick10

03-20-2008, 09:35 PM

Originally posted by henry

well, from one painter to another, those living room walls looked pretty glossy to me the way the sun reflected off them - probably semi-gloss or eggshell . . . and that's quite washable. i think they missed the interior ceilings . . . iirc, sbrown mentioned blood spatters (?) there. the garage looks to me like flat white cause you can see the spackle marks thru the paint . . . jmo [/*]

Yup. Ceilings are a pain to paint especially if they had a popcorn ceiling. If you don't take your time to do it right it looks bad. So you're right, I don't think they did ceilings either. So the living room (and it looks like the corner of dining room from the crime pictures) were also painted? It's obvious someone was trying to hide something in the garage. Who would paint without putting up the missing drywall, taping and bedding? Wonder why the ME Investigation Report didn't mention painting other than the garage.

donna

03-20-2008, 09:36 PM

I have just been reading the past half hour or so.

The latest word we have on the date of Maria's and Gabriel's death was when he answered our first round of questions. His answer is:

We believe that Maria was murdered on the 14th.

The date Captain Sutherland answered this question was on March 5th, 2008 via the emailed answers to our questions.

Gotta go!

:seeya:

henry

03-20-2008, 09:39 PM

Originally posted by strick10

Well I can see Maria being p.o.'d and annoyed that she could've thrown out the phone herself. I know I would if I were that annoyed/irritated. If she was leaving she probably wanted to leave it all behind and a cell phone ringing off the hook would be annoying if she didn't want to talk to anyone, she would've eventually chucked it. Of course someone else could've thrown it out. The location is what has me stumped. I need to re-evaluate the map again and really think about it. [/*]

that's some really good points . . . i've had some knock outs with my 2 kids while they're on their cell phones (i test them to see if they answer while driving - that's a mild one!) but they just put the phone on vibrate 'cause they don't want to miss their friends' call - heaven forbid that happened!

also . . . just got a pm from someone on another board regarding linking to myspace accounts & info . . . here's their reply to me.

"We've gotten away with posting a link to a myspace on the xxname removedxx Forum. I would suggest not typing out the person's name."

strick10

03-20-2008, 09:39 PM

Originally posted by donna
I have just been reading the past half hour or so.

The latest word we have on the date of Maria's and Gabriel's death was when he answered our first round of questions. His answer is:

We believe that Maria was murdered on the 14th.

The date Captain Sutherland answered this question was on March 5th, 2008 via the emailed answers to our questions.

Gotta go!

:seeya: [/*]

:seeya:

baywench

03-20-2008, 09:42 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
I hope everybody knows to come over to this holiday forum... [/*]

Now you tell me GP. Thought I was banned....again.

henry

03-20-2008, 09:43 PM

gaelicpeas

03-20-2008, 09:43 PM

Originally posted by nelkirk

(snipped)

Although it would be good "digging weather"

ETA to correct 12/14 [/*]

I would imagine almost any day in Jacksonville would be pretty good digging whether since I would imagine the soil is very sandy... JMO

gaelicpeas

03-20-2008, 09:48 PM

Originally posted by baywench

Now you tell me GP. Thought I was banned....again. [/*]

lol, sorry...

henry

03-20-2008, 09:50 PM

gaelicpeas

03-20-2008, 09:51 PM

Originally posted by nelkirk

Imagine cold, wet and windy...:D [/*]

I dunno.. even wet sand is pretty easy to dig (remember when we used to bury our buddies up to their necks in wet sand at the beach? lol).

Anyway, I don't think ML chucked her phone. I think her murderer did that. JMO

baywench

03-20-2008, 09:51 PM

Originally posted by henry

:seeya: no fair posting & running! hope you're going off to get an answer for us :) [/*]

Yeah...don't pull a Maka LOL

strick10

03-20-2008, 09:52 PM

Originally posted by nelkirk

30) In Laurean's 'notes', he states that everything occurred on 12/15/07, did he simply have the date wrong or did this further lessen Mrs. Laurean's involvement? We believe that Maria was murdered on the 14th. If we had probable cause that Mrs. Laurean was involved, she would be charged.

Means that the date can change if other evidence substantiates a different date.... [/*]

Uh hugh. They "believe" she was murdered on the 14th. I don't think CAL had the date wrong. The 15th would've been a day Christina was working which would've allowed more time. But if that's the case, where was the little one. Why would CSL take her to a babysitter when CAL is home? There just doesn't seem enough time before CSL got home on the 14th for CAL to have accomplished all he did, minus painting, without some help. He didn't have a shovel so if he used his e-tool that would've taken a bit to even dig a very shallow grave, place her in the comforter then to carry her out, then to clean up, then take a shower thrown his clothes in the washer in a timespan of say 1 hr. and a half.

gaelicpeas

03-20-2008, 09:52 PM

Originally posted by henry

thanks & gpeas - do any of your theories not include dates? [/*]

well yeah... I think it is quite possible that she was held hostage for a couple of days.

I also think it is quite possible she went to a motel for a couple of days.

(actually, I think most things are possible in this case :D )

gaelicpeas

03-20-2008, 09:54 PM

Originally posted by strick10

Uh hugh. They "believe" she was murdered on the 14th. I don't think CAL had the date wrong. The 15th would've been a day Christina was working which would've allowed more time. But if that's the case, where was the little one. Why would CSL take her to a babysitter when CAL is home? There just doesn't seem enough time before CSL got home on the 14th for CAL to have accomplished all he did, minus painting, without some help. He didn't have a shovel so if he used his e-tool that would've taken a bit to even dig a very shallow grave, place her in the comforter then to carry her out, then to clean up, then take a shower thrown his clothes in the washer in a timespan of say 1 hr. and a half. [/*]

Do we know for sure that CSL was working on Saturday, Dec 15? Just wondering...

gaelicpeas

03-20-2008, 09:55 PM

pretty bad when a murderer can't even get his suicide/murder date right...

JMO

nuttintodo

03-20-2008, 09:56 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

Do we know for sure that CSL was working on Saturday, Dec 15? Just wondering... [/*]

Well according to CSL's mother and stepfather she was....IIRC.

jmo

marinewife5

03-20-2008, 09:57 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

Well according to CSL's mother and stepfather she was....IIRC.

jmo [/*]

great...i hope the admin working on saturday thing doesn't spread to my husband's office. :tongue:

strick10

03-20-2008, 09:57 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

Do we know for sure that CSL was working on Saturday, Dec 15? Just wondering... [/*]

Not positive but if IRRC her stepfather stated she had worked that Saturday during the only televised interview her parents gave. I'm not going to bet my cookie on it though. JMO

gaelicpeas

03-20-2008, 09:58 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

Well according to CSL's mother and stepfather she was....IIRC.

jmo [/*]

Yes, I remember that. I wish we knew what her job was then.. and her hours...

marinewife5

03-20-2008, 09:58 PM

Originally posted by strick10

Not positive but if IRRC her stepfather stated she had worked that Saturday during the only televised interview her parents gave. I'm not going to bet my cookie on it though. JMO [/*]

as i recall, the parents stated that she was at work when the murder occured, but gave no day or date. jmo

strick10

03-20-2008, 09:58 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

great...i hope the admin working on saturday thing doesn't spread to my husband's office. :tongue: [/*]

:lol: She wasn't active at the time but she may have been conducting her AT at that time I suppose.

marinewife5

03-20-2008, 09:59 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

Yes, I remember that. I wish we knew what her job was then.. and her hours... [/*]

she was civilian admin and her hours were the same as marines...730 to 430, jmo, of course

gaelicpeas

03-20-2008, 10:00 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

she was civilian admin and her hours were the same as marines...730 to 430, jmo, of course [/*]

Mon thru Fri? (and hiya mw5 :seeya: )

strick10

03-20-2008, 10:00 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

as i recall, the parents stated that she was at work when the murder occured, but gave no day or date. jmo [/*]

Bet my chocolate chip cookie they were thinking the 15th, Sat. as per CALs note. Even they were believing at that time that the murder happened on the 15th.

marinewife5

03-20-2008, 10:01 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

Mon thru Fri? (and hiya mw5 :seeya: ) [/*]

99.99% sure. :seeya:

gaelicpeas

03-20-2008, 10:02 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

99.99% sure. :seeya: [/*]

hmm... well somebody was confused then, no? either her parents or her?

marinewife5

03-20-2008, 10:02 PM

Originally posted by strick10

Bet my chocolate chip cookie they were thinking the 15th, Sat. as per CALs note. Even they were believing at that time that the murder happened on the 15th. [/*]

i've wondered with that friday being payday, they just automatically connected the date as the 15th.

marinewife5

03-20-2008, 10:03 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

hmm... well somebody was confused then, no? either her parents or her? [/*]

both?

henry

03-20-2008, 10:03 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

Yes, I remember that. I wish we knew what her job was then.. and her hours... [/*]

:D my question in round 2 to rsutherland . . . will only be on for another few minutes - got a reprieve - dh missed his train! :seeya:

strick10

03-20-2008, 10:05 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

i've wondered with that friday being payday, they just automatically connected the date as the 15th. [/*]

I don't think so. I mean there's a pretty good marker of the 14th due to the unit party and Christina made it clear that she was at the party. Heck they were probably excited cause they got paid 1 day early since the 15th was a Sat. :shrug: The parents, don't think they would even think about military payday.

strick10

03-20-2008, 10:06 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

99.99% sure. :seeya: [/*]

Admin like in admin all the way around?

gaelicpeas

03-20-2008, 10:07 PM

Originally posted by strick10

I don't think so. I mean there's a pretty good marker of the 14th due to the unit party and Christina made it clear that she was at the party. Heck they were probably excited cause they got paid 1 day early since the 15th was a Sat. :shrug: The parents, don't think they would even think about military payday. [/*]

Yeah.. but CSL's parents said on TV that she was working Dec 15. I can only assume CSL told them that...

marinewife5

03-20-2008, 10:07 PM

Originally posted by strick10

I don't think so. I mean there's a pretty good marker of the 14th due to the unit party and Christina made it clear that she was at the party. Heck they were probably excited cause they got paid 1 day early since the 15th was a Sat. :shrug: The parents, don't think they would even think about military payday. [/*]

the parents would only know what she told them, imo

i'm not trying to defend xtina, just look at all angles.

marinewife5

03-20-2008, 10:08 PM

Originally posted by strick10

Admin like in admin all the way around? [/*]

mos is admin, civilian job was admin.

strick10

03-20-2008, 10:10 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

Yeah.. but CSL's parents said on TV that she was working Dec 15. I can only assume CSL told them that... [/*]

I believe your assuming right.

henry

03-20-2008, 10:11 PM

Originally posted by strick10

Yup. Ceilings are a pain to paint especially if they had a popcorn ceiling. If you don't take your time to do it right it looks bad. So you're right, I don't think they did ceilings either. So the living room (and it looks like the corner of dining room from the crime pictures) were also painted? It's obvious someone was trying to hide something in the garage. Who would paint without putting up the missing drywall, taping and bedding? Wonder why the ME Investigation Report didn't mention painting other than the garage. [/*]

crap . . . forgot to add/reply . . . with all that happened at that house . . . i couldn't paint a straight line or even hold a paintbrush . . . or even get the paint on the wall.

gaelicpeas

03-20-2008, 10:11 PM

I personally think CL and CSL just messed up the date... it was nearly a month later...

strick10

03-20-2008, 10:12 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

mos is admin, civilian job was admin. [/*]

k

henry

03-20-2008, 10:12 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

mos is admin, civilian job was admin. [/*]

civilian translation please :confused:

gaelicpeas

03-20-2008, 10:12 PM

Originally posted by henry

crap . . . forgot to add/reply . . . with all that happened at that house . . . i couldn't paint a straight line or even hold a paintbrush . . . or even get the paint on the wall. [/*]

well I can't do that even without a murder in my house :D

... but you are right...

strick10

03-20-2008, 10:13 PM

marinewife5

03-20-2008, 10:17 PM

Originally posted by henry

civilian translation please :confused: [/*]

the work she did as a civilian employee on base would be similar to the work she did as a marine. my husband has both marine and civilian admin clerks in his office. they all do similar jobs.

strick10

03-20-2008, 10:19 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
I personally think CL and CSL just messed up the date... it was nearly a month later... [/*]

They may have. I think CAL had to make sure that the date was a day where CSL was not in the home though. Not saying CSL is guilty just saying he had to have had the date right so as not to involve CSL.

henry

03-20-2008, 10:21 PM

thanks mw5 for the answer - garage door just went up - have to run & make it look like i've been doing something else . . . til tomorrow :seeya:

marinewife5

03-20-2008, 10:21 PM

Originally posted by strick10

They may have. I think CAL had to make sure that the date was a day where CSL was not in the home though. Not saying CSL is guilty just saying he had to have had the date right so as not to involve CSL. [/*]

if he indeed is the one who wrote the letter of convenience...oops, i mean confession. jmo

marinewife5

03-20-2008, 10:22 PM

Originally posted by henry
thanks mw5 - garage door just went up - have to run & make it look like i've been doing something else . . . til tomorrow :seeya: [/*]

yw:seeya:

strick10

03-20-2008, 10:24 PM

Originally posted by henry
thanks mw5 - garage door just went up - have to run & make it look like i've been doing something else . . . til tomorrow :seeya: [/*]

:seeya: henry.

strick10

03-20-2008, 10:25 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

if he indeed is the one who wrote the letter of convenience...oops, i mean confession. jmo [/*]

So true. Let's see it's 0 dark thirty. Where is that dang calendar.

strick10

03-20-2008, 10:26 PM

:seeya: Catch y'all tomorrow.

marinewife5

03-20-2008, 10:26 PM

Originally posted by strick10
:seeya: Catch y'all tomorrow. [/*]:seeya:

marinewife5

03-20-2008, 10:41 PM

marinewife5

03-20-2008, 10:59 PM

Originally posted by nelkirk

ITA

I took a Creative Writing Class and one of the first rules was NEVER USE COINCIDENCE as the basis for your story....this is way to coincidental...JMO [/*]

IF i were in christina's shoes, i would not play the "ignorant wife" part up so much. i would reveal my "suspicions" to le. imo

gaelicpeas

03-20-2008, 11:02 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

too much "dumb luck" in this case for me...ml disappears (is murdered) the same day she is leaving town on her own. before going on the lam, a killer sits down and writes out an explanation of the events. christina happens to be gone the entire evening a murder takes place in her house, and everyone from jacksonville to guadalajara sees CL except LE (allegedly). jmo [/*]

ITA... this case reeks of a planned murder to me. I know most posters disagree... but it is just tooooo convenient, IMO.

daniel green

03-20-2008, 11:03 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo
I beg to differ as to whether this is a prelim report versus an actual autopsy.

snipped

So this IR is the PRELIMINARY, not the full autopsy. JMHO

[/url]
. [/*]

Thank you for uploading them, nuttin!

It was a pain to type them out earlier.

It is not a "prelim report" nor is it vs an autopsy.

These are two very different things.

The Report of Investigation by Med Examiner is explained in the NC ME to which I linked above.

gaelicpeas

03-20-2008, 11:04 PM

Originally posted by daniel green

Thank you for uploading them, nuttin!

It was a pain to type them out earlier.

It is not a "prelim report" nor is it vs an autopsy.

These are two very different things.

The Report of Investigation by Med Examiner is explained in the NC ME to which I linked above. [/*]

As I read it, it was the Onslow County ME's report... no?

marinewife5

03-20-2008, 11:06 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

ITA... this case reeks of a planned murder to me. I know most posters disagree... but it is just tooooo convenient, IMO. [/*]

there is definately an extremely relevant part that we are either not privy to, or is still unknown to le, imo.

daniel green

03-20-2008, 11:07 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

Daniel, this is where I got messed up. Sorry. I wasn't aware the body goes to a hospital and then to the ME's office
there.

snipped

It still is not the official Autopsy report used for court.

jmoo [/*]

No problem. I see what you are saying. But in this report they checked off the box that says the body was seen at the hospital.

And since they have a check box for "scene of death," "hospital," "funeral home," "other" and "not viewed" I figured that in NC those are standard.

daniel green

03-20-2008, 11:09 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

As I read it, it was the Onslow County ME's report... no? [/*]

No, gaelic. It wasn't.

If you look at pg 1 --the ones nuttin nicely upload for us--you can see that it is a State of NC Dpt of Health and Human Resources form and it is a State form and process.

daniel green

03-20-2008, 11:10 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

Okay, thanks, I couldn't tell if those were added comments (not clothed, no valuables) or check boxes, since usually the blanks are either before or after, not one after, one before. [/*]

Oh, I totally did not type those verbatim!

You can see from Nuttin's uploaded pgs how they actually look as opposed to my typing them out so you all could know what it said.

alter ego

03-20-2008, 11:11 PM

Originally posted by daniel green
http://www.ocme.unc.edu/rules/guidelines.shtml

. The ME must make a record of his/her findings and of the circumstances of the death on the "Report of Investigation form and on such diagrams, etc., as may be needed to completely document the case. These records are to be sent to the OCME within 14 days of notification of the death. The ME should keep a copy of all documents for his/her records.

9. As the official" document of a public official, the medical examiner's Report of Investigation reflects on the medical examiner, the medical profession, and on the medical examiner system. , the medical profession, and on the medical examiner system. Examiners should try to make it as legible as possible, complete, and relevant. This report may be the only record (other than the death certificate) prepared in connection with this death. The findings of an ME investigation may be critical to the resolution of a variety of legal and social issues. Medical abbreviations may pose problems for many non-medical people who read the reports.

10. The ME Report of Investigation and the autopsy report once received and reviewed at the OCME are public records.

11. The ME must complete the "Medical Examiner Certificate of Death" on every case over which he/she assumes jurisdiction. ALL copies of the certificate are to be forwarded to the local Registrar of the County of death, usually through the funeral home handling the final disposition of the body. A death under ME jurisdiction CANNOT be certified on a non-medical examiner death certificate.

12. If the cause and/or manner of death is not known or for some other reason the death certificate diagnoses cannot be immediately completed, the certificate should be marked as pending" and forwarded as noted above. A supplemental death certificate can be filed later with the local registrar. Please bear in mind that the completion and filing of the death certificate is often crucial to families of decedents in order to settle estates, collect insurance and resolve other death-related matters. Medical examiners should do all they can to insure that no unnecessary delays occur in generating this important document.

13. Only rarely would any medical examiner take custody of the property or valuables of a decedent. Wallets, jewelry, and the like can be transferred to the possession of law enforcement officers, funeral directors, or family members. It should be noted on the investigation report what disposition is made of any personal effects especially the more valuable personal property. Please exercise caution regarding the leaving of valuables with a body that is put in an unsecured morgue facility.

14. Bodies should be released only to the next of kin or their agents. [/*]Thank you so much for the red highlight.

That is soooo helpful.

baywench

03-20-2008, 11:12 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

ITA... this case reeks of a planned murder to me. I know most posters disagree... but it is just tooooo convenient, IMO. [/*]

I don't agree it is a planned murder, but is a planned cover-up and escape. IMO

GentleBreeze

03-20-2008, 11:12 PM

Originally posted by nelkirk

The sad part is that We have NO IDRA what is in the notes that CAL left!

No one has ever told us exactly what is in those notes.

What we do have is a Statement from Christina Laurean...that is what the entire case is based on...HER STATEMENT..

Which can be found as an attachment to the search warrant (Page 5-6) for the cell phone records at:

http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/Cell+Phone+Search+Warrant.pdf

ACCORDING to Christina Laurean...the entire case is being dictated by CHRISTINA LAUREAN and Who can really tell if she is telling the whole truth or whatever saves her butt... [/*]

I agree. So much of this story is told by one storyteller.

Also I posted this earlier today. To me it shows things were not as they seemed to be and as you said look at the coincidences that would have to come together to explain it all.

Earlier post:
This makes me think that contact was okay with both of them. Maria knew she was violating the MPO and could be in serious trouble if he picked up the phone to call and report that she had made contact at his home or by phone. He also knew he could be in very serious trouble by allowing her to come there yet neither one of them peeped a word about it. This is one of the reasons I believe contact had been made at other times after the allegation was made. If not IMOO the first one to make contact whether it be by phone or whatever would have immediately reported the other ASAP!

I still think there are things we do not know about their true relationship. If known., we may not even understand it but things were not as they seemed imo.

Were they both planning to leave and no longer cared about the rules they were expected to follow? What if it was actually Laurean's plans that fell through and he knew he couldn't leave with her on the 15th because CSL would be home?

Did Christina know that there was still a relationship between them?

imoo

alter ego

03-20-2008, 11:14 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

ITA... this case reeks of a planned murder to me. I know most posters disagree... but it is just tooooo convenient, IMO. [/*]To me, the backyard burial and burning reek of panic. :shrug:

daniel green

03-20-2008, 11:15 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo
Okay now I see what you are saying daniel!

This is the paper report as to what Dr. Garrett saw, etc. on 1/11 through 1/12/08.

This is not the full autopsy as that was performed at the NC ME's office on 1/14/08.

Maybe my terminology usage is wrong, that why I said it was a prelim as it wasn't the full autopsy.

Hope I made sense with the above.

JMO [/*]

Right, Nuttin! And the Report of Investigation is a mandatory in NC.

Dr Garrett works for NC ME. You can see on pg 1 that it says "ME authorized."

The only thing I would correct in your post is that Garrett viewed the body on 1/12/08--not over a two day span.

And then "sent for autopsy," as per notated on pg 1.

LE gives the ME (Garrett) all the facts in the case for this report so that the ME has a notion of what LE has verified before autopsy.

Thank you again for uploading those!

marinewife5

03-20-2008, 11:17 PM

Originally posted by baywench

I don't agree it is a planned murder, but is a planned cover-up and escape. IMO [/*]

i think the murder was heat of the moment. everything else seems "staged" to me.

nuttintodo

03-20-2008, 11:17 PM

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by marinewife5

if he indeed is the one who wrote the letter of convenience...oops, i mean confession. jmo [/*]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by marinewife5

too much "dumb luck" in this case for me...ml disappears (is murdered) the same day she is leaving town on her own. before going on the lam, a killer sits down and writes out an explanation of the events. christina happens to be gone the entire evening a murder takes place in her house, and everyone from jacksonville to guadalajara sees CL except LE (allegedly). jmo [/*]

I had to add the first part and say LOL at you! Convenience letter!

I didn't see CAL leaving J'ville on his way outta town, but now you should considering he went through your neck of the woods. ;)

But I do agree CAL had a streak of dumb luck. Funny thing is that CAL provided his novellas for his wife to produce all the while he's just waltzing with Matilda on his way to Houston to Mexico and even chatting up the bus driver on Tornado bus lines!

JMO

nuttintodo

03-20-2008, 11:20 PM

Originally posted by nelkirk

<snipped>

ACCORDING to Christina Laurean...the entire case is being dictated by CHRISTINA LAUREAN and Who can really tell if she is telling the whole truth or whatever saves her butt... [/*]

You got that right! That's why I said early I that I hoped OCSD wasn't basing their entire case on CSL.

jmo

GentleBreeze

03-20-2008, 11:21 PM

Originally posted by alter ego
To me, the backyard burial and burning reek of panic. :shrug: [/*]

I agree. I see no premeditation..........more like spontaneous eruption and panic afterward.

imoo

marinewife5

03-20-2008, 11:21 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by marinewife5

if he indeed is the one who wrote the letter of convenience...oops, i mean confession. jmo [/*]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I had to add the first part and say LOL at you! Convenience letter!

I didn't see CAL leaving J'ville on his way outta town, but now you should considering he went through your neck of the woods. ;)

But I do agree CAL had a streak of dumb luck. Funny thing is that CAL provided his novellas for his wife to produce all the while he's just waltzing with Matilda on his way to Houston to Mexico and even chatting up the bus driver on Tornado bus lines!

JMO [/*]

he wasn't at the piggly wiggly. i checked. and someone trying to lay low, chatting with a bus driver? not ducked down in the back of the bus? is he really that wascally of a wabbit? i think not. btw...saw a rolled up rug on the side of the road on the way back from hubert today...and yes, cryme, i got out and nudged it a little. turned out it was just a rug.

daniel green

03-20-2008, 11:24 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

You got that right! That's why I said early I that I hoped OCSD wasn't basing their entire case on CSL.

jmo [/*]

I am sure they are not.

Which is why the last known to be alive on 12/15 is very interesting.

daniel green

03-20-2008, 11:26 PM

gaelicpeas

03-20-2008, 11:27 PM

Originally posted by daniel green

No, gaelic. It wasn't.

If you look at pg 1 --the ones nuttin nicely upload for us--you can see that it is a State of NC Dpt of Health and Human Resources form and it is a State form and process. [/*]

but the date was Jan 12, no? That would have to be Onslow County, IMo. My guess is the forms are standard forms.

I have no idea, but it seems to me the Onslow Co. ME would do the initial autopsy, then send the body on to Chapel Hill. JMO, because I really have no idea.

nuttintodo

03-20-2008, 11:28 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

I agree. So much of this story is told by one storyteller.

Also I posted this earlier today. To me it shows things were not as they seemed to be and as you said look at the coincidences that would have to come together to explain it all.

Earlier post:
This makes me think that contact was okay with both of them. Maria knew she was violating the MPO and could be in serious trouble if he picked up the phone to call and report that she had made contact at his home or by phone. He also knew he could be in very serious trouble by allowing her to come there yet neither one of them peeped a word about it. This is one of the reasons I believe contact had been made at other times after the allegation was made. If not IMOO the first one to make contact whether it be by phone or whatever would have immediately reported the other ASAP!

I still think there are things we do not know about their true relationship. If known., we may not even understand it but things were not as they seemed imo.

Were they both planning to leave and no longer cared about the rules they were expected to follow? What if it was actually Laurean's plans that fell through and he knew he couldn't leave with her on the 15th because CSL would be home?

Did Christina know that there was still a relationship between them?

imoo [/*]

I agree with you because if their relationship had soured since the allegation was made (even going through December), you better believe CAL would have contacted somebody at CLNC to report that Maria had violated the MPO. Now it's beginning to appear there was something still going on between the two of them since no one turned the other in.

According to CSL, she wasn't aware there was still a relationship going on between them, after all she told OCSD investigators: 1) that her husband had merely told her of the allegation and he denied the allegation to CSL, 2) he told her of Maria's pregnancy in which he told CSL the baby wasn't his and 3) they only discussed it every couple of months. <-----YEAH RIGHT!

jmo

How is DD doing tonight? Home? Still in the hospital? Feeling better?

baywench

03-20-2008, 11:29 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

i think the murder was heat of the moment. everything else seems "staged" to me. [/*]

ITA

alter ego

03-20-2008, 11:31 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

I agree. I see no premeditation..........more like spontaneous eruption and panic afterward.

imoo [/*]Exactly.

alter ego

03-20-2008, 11:33 PM

Originally posted by daniel green

That is, indeed, what the report says. [/*]

indeed

nuttintodo

03-20-2008, 11:34 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

he wasn't at the piggly wiggly. i checked. and someone trying to lay low, chatting with a bus driver? not ducked down in the back of the bus? is he really that wascally of a wabbit? i think not. btw...saw a rolled up rug on the side of the road on the way back from hubert today...and yes, cryme, i got out and nudged it a little. turned out it was just a rug. [/*]

I know! It would seem to me if someone had committed a crime they wouldn't be making their presence known!

Now you have gone and finished cryme off! I started it yesterday when I didn't personally tell her that Wanda was no longer living next door and now this! What are we going to do with cryme? :D

You were down this way today AND I got nothing? Well I nevah! Humpf LOL

gaelicpeas

03-20-2008, 11:34 PM

I wasn't convinced it was planned until Sheriff Brown said there is evidence that "all of this was planned, even the getaway"... (my paraphrasing, and I don't have the link). To me, that implies the murder was planned, but maybe I am just reading him wrong.

JMO

marinewife5

03-20-2008, 11:35 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

I know! It would seem to me if someone had committed a crime they wouldn't be making their presence known!

Now you have gone and finished cryme off! I started it yesterday when I didn't personally tell her that Wanda was no longer living next door and now this! What are we going to do with cryme? :D

You were down this way today AND I got nothing? Well I nevah! Humpf LOL [/*]

i hope cryme at least appreciates that i checked...and i hollered "nuttintodo" over and over and people just thought i was bored and crazy.

nuttintodo

03-20-2008, 11:39 PM

Originally posted by daniel green

Right, Nuttin! And the Report of Investigation is a mandatory in NC.

Dr Garrett works for NC ME. You can see on pg 1 that it says "ME authorized."

The only thing I would correct in your post is that Garrett viewed the body on 1/12/08--not over a two day span.

And then "sent for autopsy," as per notated on pg 1.

LE gives the ME (Garrett) all the facts in the case for this report so that the ME has a notion of what LE has verified before autopsy.

Thank you again for uploading those! [/*]

Now I don't know for a fact that Dr. G went both days. His report says he was notified on 1/11/08 at +/- 16:30 but it seems that it was stated somewhere that Dr. G did go to the residence on 1/11/08 and then I have the picture of him actually at the scene on 1/12/08.

NP on the uploading.

daniel green

03-20-2008, 11:40 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

but the date was Jan 12, no? That would have to be Onslow County, IMo. My guess is the forms are standard forms.

I have no idea, but it seems to me the Onslow Co. ME would do the initial autopsy, then send the body on to Chapel Hill. JMO, because I really have no idea. [/*]

From the NC ME's website regarding guidelines, rules and statutes.

http://www.ocme.unc.edu/rules/guidelines.shtml

Guidelines

1. The county medical examiner is an officer of the State of North Carolina, charged with the duty of investigating and certifying specified categories of human deaths in North Carolina. A medical examiner's authority derives from Article 16 of Section 130A of the North Carolina General Statutes. His/her primary purpose is to detect,analyze, and document the medical aspects of certain types of deaths so that deaths can be better understood scientifically, legally, and socially.

daniel green

03-20-2008, 11:42 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

Now I don't know for a fact that Dr. G went both days. His report says he was notified on 1/11/08 at +/- 16:30 but it seems that it was stated somewhere that Dr. G did go to the residence on 1/11/08 and then I have the picture of him actually at the scene on 1/12/08.

NP on the uploading. [/*]

I don't think he went both days and his report says he viewed the body in the hospital. He was at the scene, cuz you have his picture there.

Just going by what he says in his report.

nuttintodo

03-20-2008, 11:42 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

i hope cryme at least appreciates that i checked...and i hollered "nuttintodo" over and over and people just thought i was bored and crazy. [/*]

I am sure they looked at you like what in the world is wrong with this woman!

Now if you were over in the Bear Creek area, well those folks would have thought nothing was out of the ordinary. :D

marinewife5

03-20-2008, 11:46 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

I am sure they looked at you like what in the world is wrong with this woman!

Now if you were over in the Bear Creek area, well those folks would have thought nothing was out of the ordinary. :D [/*]

living in richlands, i always feel that i need a passport to go to hubert/swansboro.

i wish rick would meet us for lunch. we could needle some answers out of him.

nuttintodo

03-20-2008, 11:47 PM

I earlier posted this link to an article about Dr. Garrett dated 12/19/07:

http://www.jdnews.com/news/garrett_53889___article.html/death_someone.html

baywench

03-20-2008, 11:48 PM

daniel green

03-20-2008, 11:49 PM

http://www.ocme.unc.edu/rules/admin_codes.shtml

SECTION .0100 - FILING OF REPORTS

.0101 Filing of Medical Examiner's Report

The local medical examiner shall complete aReport of Investigation Form promptly. He shall provide such additional information with the Report of Investigation Form as is reasonably required to document the case fully.

The completed report shall be mailed by the local medical examiner to the state Office of the Chief Medical Examiner within 14 days of the time the local medical examiner assumes jurisdiction of a dead body.

Payment of the medical examiner fee shall be authorized only when the report is postmarked within 14 days after the local medical examiner assumed jurisdiction of the dead body, unless the Chief Medical Examiner determines that the delay was beyond the control of the local medical examiner.
History Note: Authority G.S. 130A-383; 130A-387; 130A-393;
Eff. February 1, 1976;
Readopted Eff. December 5, 1977;
Amended Eff. November 1, 1978;
Transferred and Recodified from 10 NCAC 11 .0402 Eff. April 4, 1990;
Amended Eff. September 1, 1990.

marinewife5

03-20-2008, 11:50 PM

Originally posted by baywench

Don't wear your pine dress MW, you remember what happened the last time! LOL [/*]

LOL:lol:

GentleBreeze

03-20-2008, 11:50 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by nuttintodo

I agree with you because if their relationship had soured since the allegation was made (even going through December), you better believe CAL would have contacted somebody at CLNC to report that Maria had violated the MPO. Now it's beginning to appear there was something still going on between the two of them since no one turned the other in.

According to CSL, she wasn't aware there was still a relationship going on between them, after all she told OCSD investigators: 1) that her husband had merely told her of the allegation and he denied the allegation to CSL, 2) he told her of Maria's pregnancy in which he told CSL the baby wasn't his and 3) they only discussed it every couple of months. <-----YEAH RIGHT!
************************************************** **
Still in hospital but finally feeling some better. Thanks for asking, nuttin.

It just makes logical sense imo. If what we have been told is remotely true either one of them would have jumped through their skins trying to report the other one. He was her alleged rapist and she was his accuser. Both had motives to report immediately.

That is why I believe contact did not just come out of the blue with no warning. If Maria had done the contacting it would be the perfect opportunity for him to report her ASAP for violating the very order she said she wanted and she would have him right by the gonads if he was the one that had contacted her....this would help her case and she could get him in trouble not only on violating the order but possibly harassment or witness tampering since she was to be a witness in the 32 hearing.

Yet none of this happened.........neither one called to report a thing and she came on over to his home.

So now I do feel there is a solid connection to Maria and El Paso.

Oops, sorry Nuttin, I missed up your quote. Sorry.

jmo

nuttintodo

03-20-2008, 11:50 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

living in richlands, i always feel that i need a passport to go to hubert/swansboro.

i wish rick would meet us for lunch. we could needle some answers out of him. [/*]

You don't need no stinking passport to come to Swansboro, we're the Friendly City By The Sea, ya know!

If he met us for lunch, he wouldn't know which way was up by the time we got through with him! :D

marinewife5

03-20-2008, 11:53 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

You don't need no stinking passport to come to Swansboro, we're the Friendly City By The Sea, ya know!

If he met us for lunch, he wouldn't know which way was up by the time we got through with him! :D [/*]

we'd have xtina put in the pokey before supper! imo

nuttintodo

03-20-2008, 11:54 PM

Originally posted by baywench

Don't wear your pine dress MW, you remember what happened the last time! LOL [/*]

What happened? Did the squirrels go up the wrong tree since MW was wearing a pine dress?

gaelicpeas

03-20-2008, 11:57 PM

Originally posted by daniel green

From the NC ME's website regarding guidelines, rules and statutes.

http://www.ocme.unc.edu/rules/guidelines.shtml

Guidelines

1. The county medical examiner is an officer of the State of North Carolina, charged with the duty of investigating and certifying specified categories of human deaths in North Carolina. A medical examiner's authority derives from Article 16 of Section 130A of the North Carolina General Statutes. His/her primary purpose is to detect,analyze, and document the medical aspects of certain types of deaths so that deaths can be better understood scientifically, legally, and socially. [/*]

This is exactly what I am saying.. lol... the county ME works for NC.. but he did the initial autopsy, then it was sent to the main NC ME for the final autopsy.

GentleBreeze

03-20-2008, 11:58 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

What happened? Did the squirrels go up the wrong tree since MW was wearing a pine dress? [/*]

No, but she didn't know til she had it on that it was filled with pine beetles.:biggrin:

imoo

marinewife5

03-20-2008, 11:59 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

No, but she didn't know til she had it on that it was filled with pine beetles.:biggrin:

imoo [/*]

and what all that sap does to your underdrawers...
:eek:

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 12:00 AM

Originally posted by daniel green
http://www.ocme.unc.edu/rules/admin_codes.shtml

SECTION .0100 - FILING OF REPORTS

.0101 Filing of Medical Examiner's Report

The local medical examiner shall complete aReport of Investigation Form promptly. He shall provide such additional information with the Report of Investigation Form as is reasonably required to document the case fully.

The completed report shall be mailed by the local medical examiner to the state Office of the Chief Medical Examiner within 14 days of the time the local medical examiner assumes jurisdiction of a dead body.

Payment of the medical examiner fee shall be authorized only when the report is postmarked within 14 days after the local medical examiner assumed jurisdiction of the dead body, unless the Chief Medical Examiner determines that the delay was beyond the control of the local medical examiner.
History Note: Authority G.S. 130A-383; 130A-387; 130A-393;
Eff. February 1, 1976;
Readopted Eff. December 5, 1977;
Amended Eff. November 1, 1978;
Transferred and Recodified from 10 NCAC 11 .0402 Eff. April 4, 1990;
Amended Eff. September 1, 1990. [/*]

This is what I have been saying... from your first sentence "the local medical examiner"...

nuttintodo

03-21-2008, 12:02 AM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

Still in hospital but finally feeling some better. Thanks for asking, nuttin.

It just makes logical sense imo. If what we have been told is remotely true either one of them would have jumped through their skins trying to report the other one. He was her alleged rapist and she was his accuser. Both had motives to report immediately.

That is why I believe contact did not just come out of the blue with no warning. If Maria had done the contacting it would be the perfect opportunity for him to report her ASAP for violating the very order she said she wanted and she would have him right by the gonads if he was the one that had contacted her....this would help her case and she could get him in trouble not only on violating the order but possibly harassment or witness tampering since she was to be a witness in the 32 hearing.

Yet none of this happened.........neither one called to report a thing and she came on over to his home.

So now I do feel there is a solid connection to Maria and El Paso.

Oops, sorry Nuttin, I missed up your quote. Sorry.

jmo [/*]

Don't worry about the quoting thing, I know you didn't alter my post, LOL.

Glad to hear your daughter is feeling better. That is WONDERFUL news.

I know, it makes me wonder what was really going on here.

Another scratching head moment.

Also, unless I'm badly mistaken, both would have had to testify under oath at the 32 hearing, correct? Just a thought but perhaps neither wanted to get on the stand and be caught in a lie? (thinking out loud and speculating)

jmo

GentleBreeze

03-21-2008, 12:03 AM

Originally posted by marinewife5

and what all that sap does to your underdrawers...
:eek: [/*]

I would think pine sap or tar as its called in the South could do a number on more than just your underdrawers.:eek:

imoo

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 12:03 AM

So... no one responded to what Sheriff Brown said about all this being planned. And he didn't say that early on, either.. IIRC, it was at least a week, maybe 10 days after ML's body was discovered.

JMO, as I have no link and alas, Lynn seems to have not discovered the holiday forum!

daniel green

03-21-2008, 12:04 AM

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 12:04 AM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
So... no one responded to what Sheriff Brown said about all this being planned. And he didn't say that early on, either.. IIRC, it was at least a week, maybe 10 days after ML's body was discovered.

JMO, as I have no link and alas, Lynn seems to have not discovered the holiday forum! [/*]

i was combing the jdnews archives...still haven't found it. but i do vaguely recall him saying something like that. (im no lynne, i know)

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 12:06 AM

Originally posted by daniel green

There is no such thing as "initial autopsy," though. [/*]

really?

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 12:06 AM

Originally posted by daniel green

There is no such thing as "initial autopsy," though. [/*]

Well, I don't know the terminology. All I can see from this report is that the Onslow Co. ME did this first autopy or whatever you want to call it, and then ML's body was sent to Chapel Hill to the state ME for the autopsy we got a report on the other day.

baywench

03-21-2008, 12:06 AM

Originally posted by marinewife5

and what all that sap does to your underdrawers...
:eek: [/*]

Yes, any sap in your underdrawers is just so annoying:cool:

nuttintodo

03-21-2008, 12:07 AM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

This is exactly what I am saying.. lol... the county ME works for NC.. but he did the initial autopsy, then it was sent to the main NC ME for the final autopsy. [/*]

Maybe this will help Ms.Peas: State law requires any violent or accidental death to be investigated by a state-appointed medical examiner. In Onslow County for the past 32 years, that has meant Dr. Charles Garrett.

Garrett has a contract with Onslow Memorial Hospital to conduct all of the hospital's autopsies, is the medical examiner for both Onslow and Jones counties and oversees all the autopsies for nine counties in southeastern North Carolina.

http://www.jdnews.com/news/garrett_53889___article.html/death_someone.html

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 12:08 AM

Originally posted by baywench

Yes, any sap in your underdrawers is just so annoying:cool: [/*]

it made the list of the top ten things i do not like in my underdrawers (it's #6)

the pine tree dress would be a brilliant costume to wear in the woods here to flush out cl. hmmm.....

GentleBreeze

03-21-2008, 12:09 AM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

Don't worry about the quoting thing, I know you didn't alter my post, LOL.

Glad to hear your daughter is feeling better. That is WONDERFUL news.

I know, it makes me wonder what was really going on here.

Another scratching head moment.

Also, unless I'm badly mistaken, both would have had to testify under oath at the 32 hearing, correct? Just a thought but perhaps neither wanted to get on the stand and be caught in a lie? (thinking out loud and speculating)

jmo [/*]

I wouldn't think so but I really don't know. Isn't a 32 hearing like our civilian GJ. Defendants aren't made to testify. The Prosecutor presents his case and the evidence he has to show that the charges should go to trial or in this situation a court martial.

So I would think she would have to testify but he wouldn't.

imoo

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 12:09 AM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

Maybe this will help Ms.Peas: State law requires any violent or accidental death to be investigated by a state-appointed medical examiner. In Onslow County for the past 32 years, that has meant Dr. Charles Garrett.

Garrett has a contract with Onslow Memorial Hospital to conduct all of the hospital's autopsies, is the medical examiner for both Onslow and Jones counties and oversees all the autopsies for nine counties in southeastern North Carolina.

http://www.jdnews.com/news/garrett_53889___article.html/death_someone.html [/*]

lol, thanks, Nuttin. It is perfectly clear to me as I have been reading your links. But I am not sure what Daniel is saying.

From what I see of this report, Garret (from Onslow Co. who is, yes, also an employee of NC) did the first autopy or report or whatever you want to call it. Then her body was sent to Chapel Hill for the head state ME (or whatever he or she is called) to do another or the final or official autopy, or whatever you want to call it.

JMO and just how I see it from the dates on the two different reports.

Jan Powell

03-21-2008, 12:11 AM

Originally posted by daniel green

I don't think he went both days and his report says he viewed the body in the hospital. He was at the scene, cuz you have his picture there.

Just going by what he says in his report. [/*]

I don't know what the hospital procedures (I'm just glad to read that is where she first went) are when they receive a body in the condition that Maria was in. I wonder if one of the things they do is remove existing clothes before they send the body to the ME's office for autopsy.

That would be a reason her shirt and sports bra were laying on her body and nude from the waist down may be because they were so burned they were actually bagged at the hospital.

Guess only because I sure can't figure that part out by myself.

alter ego

03-21-2008, 12:12 AM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
So... no one responded to what Sheriff Brown said about all this being planned. And he didn't say that early on, either.. IIRC, it was at least a week, maybe 10 days after ML's body was discovered.

JMO, as I have no link and alas, Lynn seems to have not discovered the holiday forum! [/*]And before her body was discovered, he stated the needle was pointing toward her being found alive :shrug:

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 12:13 AM

Originally posted by alter ego
And before her body was discovered, he stated the needle was pointing toward her being found alive :shrug: [/*]

Oh, I agree completely, Alter... but a lot happened since then...

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 12:13 AM

Originally posted by nelkirk

Or the Widowmaker RUG LOL [/*]

LOL...i can see cryme going to the closet and dragging out her sewing machine as we type!

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 12:16 AM

(completely ignoring the sap/underwear discussion as I just don't want to know :D )

On Jan 10, there were all kinds of statements made that were obviously wrong. After the "note" from CL appeared, everything changed. So statements made before that were, well, just wrong, IMO.

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 12:17 AM

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 12:18 AM

Originally posted by marinewife5

very true. [/*]

dang, mw5.. you quoted me before I corrected everyting to everything! I hate when that happens!

nuttintodo

03-21-2008, 12:19 AM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

This is exactly what I am saying.. lol... the county ME works for NC.. but he did the initial autopsy, then it was sent to the main NC ME for the final autopsy. [/*]

Perhaps initial examination would be a better term. And Dr. Garrett did X the box ME Authorized and typed in for Autopsy facility as being OCME (which is the state office at Chapel Hill in Orange County, not Onslow). I know I call it a preliminary report/investigative report but technically it is the Report of Investigation by Medical Examiner. One reason I called it investigative report is because on the NC ME's website under document request it has the following:

Documents Requested *

Investigative Report

Autopsy Report (May not exist on every case)

Toxicology Report

http://www.ocme.unc.edu/docrequest.shtml

jmo

alter ego

03-21-2008, 12:20 AM

Originally posted by daniel green

There is no such thing as "initial autopsy," though. [/*]so....all those reports stating 'Heath Ledger's initial autopsy results are inconclusive' were talking aobut something that doesn't exist :confused:

ut oh

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 12:20 AM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

dang, mw5.. you quoted me before I corrected everyting to everything! I hate when that happens! [/*]

i'm sorry...i'll go on the lamb to live my shame alone LOL

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 12:25 AM

Originally posted by marinewife5

i'm sorry...i'll go on the lamb to live my shame alone LOL [/*]

LOL!

(and Nuttin, you are right.. initial works for me)

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 12:27 AM

I am off to sleep. Have a good night everyone, and don't talk about me while i'm gone. :seeya:

alter ego

03-21-2008, 12:27 AM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

Oh, I agree completely, Alter... but a lot happened since then... [/*]Absolutely. I just got the impression from him that he was drawing conclusions for the media before everything was fully investigated.

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 12:28 AM

Maybe what is confusing is that the Onslow Co ME did the "investigative report".. .. hence, many of us are referring to it as the initial autopsy.

Anyway, lol... I actually know nothing about any of this... so I guess I should bow out of this convo (not so gracefully!).

baywench

03-21-2008, 12:28 AM

Originally posted by alter ego
so....all those reports stating 'Heath Ledger's initial autopsy results are inconclusive' were talking aobut something that doesn't exist :confused:

ut oh [/*]

I saw that explained actually because I thought the same thing. Initial autopsy reports mean that nothing surfaced from the examination as the cause of death (gun shot, heart enlargement etc) and therefore they would have to wait until the toxicology that was collected from the autopsy was collected. I think the confusion is coming because not all cases would have multiple autopys in fact some would have none at all. IMO

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 12:30 AM

Originally posted by alter ego
Absolutely. I just got the impression from him that he was drawing conclusions for the media before everything was fully investigated. [/*]

well, these statements were made later (I am thinking at least a week, maybe 10-14 days after ML's body was found).. ugh, I wish I had the link... maybe I will go look for it.... brb.

GentleBreeze

03-21-2008, 12:39 AM

Originally posted by nelkirk

In an Article 32 all of the witnesses as well as the accused and the accuser must give their statements under oath. The evidence is presented and then the JAG makes the decision whether there will be charges made against the accused.

The accused can take the fifth amendment if he chooses. His attorney (both civilian if he has one or his military appointed defense counsel) can cross examine the witnesses and the accused, can challenge the evidence etc.

Once the charges are made then the accused stands before a panel of military officers and they judge his conduct and decide the penalty. This is unlike the trial by 12 jurors of the civilian court. [/*]

Thank you.

I would have thought it would mimic the civilian grand jury system where it is strictly up to the Prosecutor to layout the case to the jury that the evidence shows it should go forward. I do know that at very rare times a defendant will testify if that is their wishes but they cannot be compelled to do so. In many GJs only the lead detective will testify and maybe one key witness for the state.

imoo

GentleBreeze

03-21-2008, 12:41 AM

Originally posted by marinewife5
I am off to sleep. Have a good night everyone, and don't talk about me while i'm gone. :seeya: [/*]

:seeya:

nuttintodo

03-21-2008, 12:42 AM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
(completely ignoring the sap/underwear discussion as I just don't want to know :D )

On Jan 10, there were all kinds of statements made that were obviously wrong. After the "note" from CL appeared, everything changed. So statements made before that were, well, just wrong, IMO. [/*]

I agree. On January 10th, OCSD/SB made the plea for Maria to come back.

On January 10th, OCSD was under the assumption that Maria had simply gone away as per DD's statement to his command, etc., and that Maria had taken a few of her things and left him the note.

Little did they know that the next morning while they were interviewing DD, CSL strolls in with the novellas....

jmo

alter ego

03-21-2008, 12:48 AM

nuttintodo

03-21-2008, 12:49 AM

Originally posted by nelkirk

In an Article 32 all of the witnesses as well as the accused and the accuser must give their statements under oath. The evidence is presented and then the JAG makes the decision whether there will be charges made against the accused.

The accused can take the fifth amendment if he chooses. His attorney (both civilian if he has one or his military appointed defense counsel) can cross examine the witnesses and the accused, can challenge the evidence etc.

Once the charges are made then the accused stands before a panel of military officers and they judge his conduct and decide the penalty. This is unlike the trial by 12 jurors of the civilian court. [/*]

Thanks nelkirk!

Now in this case, if no sexual assault charge is brought forth, then what happens? Would they wait to collect the DNA from the baby, and if the DNA proved it was CAL's baby, then would a possible charge of lying under oath and/or adultry be brought against CAL? And God forbid, if the DNA turned out that CAL wasn't the father, could charges have been brought against Maria---lying under oath, making a false allegation?

So after the Article 32 hearing, assuming charges are brought, then the next step is the court martial, correct? Are there different options to a court martial---company, regimental and/or general or am I off base here? TIA

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 12:59 AM

I don't know if this is the original link, but I can't look anymore!

RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: (snip) And the sheriff's department has said before there is that possibility that Laurean is already in hiding. The sheriff also did tell me that he thinks there may have been some planning. There is some evidence in this case that this whole thing was planned, including the getaway.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRI.../15/cnr.06.html

nuttintodo

03-21-2008, 01:01 AM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

Thanks nelkirk!

Now in this case, if no sexual assault charge is brought forth, then what happens? Would they wait to collect the DNA from the baby, and if the DNA proved it was CAL's baby, then would a possible charge of lying under oath and/or adultry be brought against CAL? And God forbid, if the DNA turned out that CAL wasn't the father, could charges have been brought against Maria---lying under oath, making a false allegation?

So after the Article 32 hearing, assuming charges are brought, then the next step is the court martial, correct? Are there different options to a court martial---company, regimental and/or general or am I off base here? TIA [/*]

Since I let the time pass for any editing, I want to state this is purely hypothetical and speculation on my part. I'm just curious to know what would have happened next.

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 01:02 AM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
I don't know if this is the original link, but I can't look anymore!

RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: (snip) And the sheriff's department has said before there is that possibility that Laurean is already in hiding. The sheriff also did tell me that he thinks there may have been some planning. There is some evidence in this case that this whole thing was planned, including the getaway.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRI.../15/cnr.06.html [/*]

oh cripes... it says page not found!

well, I am not looking for any more links - I will just have to wait until Lynn returns!

daniel green

03-21-2008, 01:07 AM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

Perhaps initial examination would be a better term. And Dr. Garrett did X the box ME Authorized and typed in for Autopsy facility as being OCME (which is the state office at Chapel Hill in Orange County, not Onslow). I know I call it a preliminary report/investigative report but technically it is the Report of Investigation by Medical Examiner. One reason I called it investigative report is because on the NC ME's website under document request it has the following:

Documents Requested *

Investigative Report

Autopsy Report (May not exist on every case)

Toxicology Report

http://www.ocme.unc.edu/docrequest.shtml

jmo [/*]

You have explained it perfectly.

Thank you.

nuttintodo

03-21-2008, 01:08 AM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
I don't know if this is the original link, but I can't look anymore!

RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: (snip) And the sheriff's department has said before there is that possibility that Laurean is already in hiding. The sheriff also did tell me that he thinks there may have been some planning. There is some evidence in this case that this whole thing was planned, including the getaway.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRI.../15/cnr.06.html [/*]

There probably was, especially with the getaway. CAL had 3 days shy of a month to take care of business.

I don't doubt a thing in this case.

Psst the link isn't good anymore but I do remember Rusty reporting this, if that helps.

jmo

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 01:09 AM

Originally posted by nelkirk

NCIS and JAG had recommended that nothing be done until the baby was born and DNA evidence collected. That is why there had been no Article 32 scheduled. Why hold an Article 32 when they did not have a piece of the critical evidence not availible to the court. The DNA evidence would have proven that sexual contact had taken place, but it would not have proven rape (especially with witnesses saying that they had a relationship prior to the rape allegations. It would have proven that CAL had lied to the investigators and then JAG coould recommend that he be charged with lying in an official investigation. It would have brought about an investigation into the charge of adultery. And JAg would decide how to handle that.

And if the DNA results proved another man was the father, ML would have been investigated for false accusations as well as her problem with telling the truth.

JAG would probably decide on a General Court martial and proceeded on that. [/*]

And, if it was determined that CL was the baby's father, and if the baby was born in mid January... what would have happened then?

alter ego

03-21-2008, 01:12 AM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
I don't know if this is the original link, but I can't look anymore!

RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: (snip) And the sheriff's department has said before there is that possibility that Laurean is already in hiding. The sheriff also did tell me that he thinks there may have been some planning. There is some evidence in this case that this whole thing was planned, including the getaway.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRI.../15/cnr.06.html [/*]
Good job!

I wonder what made him think it was planned?

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 01:13 AM

This is the whole thing that I don't get.... the investigators did not believe the rape story (they put the date of conception one month post the rape allegation).

There are rumors that ML is facing a discharge. And that she is leaving town and the MC.

WHY would CL murder her? It makes ZERO sense to me. Which is why I don't buy any of it.

JMO

nuttintodo

03-21-2008, 01:13 AM

Originally posted by nelkirk

NCIS and JAG had recommended that nothing be done until the baby was born and DNA evidence collected. That is why there had been no Article 32 scheduled. Why hold an Article 32 when they did not have a piece of the critical evidence not availible to the court. The DNA evidence would have proven that sexual contact had taken place, but it would not have proven rape (especially with witnesses saying that they had a relationship prior to the rape allegations. It would have proven that CAL had lied to the investigators and then JAG coould recommend that he be charged with lying in an official investigation. It would have brought about an investigation into the charge of adultery. And JAg would decide how to handle that.

And if the DNA results proved another man was the father, ML would have been investigated for false accusations as well as her problem with telling the truth.

JAG would probably decide on a General Court martial and proceeded on that. [/*]

Thank you nelkirk! I went back and quoted myself saying this was all hypothetical with what I had originally posted if indeed an Article 32 was in the process of occurring.

I didn't think there was an Article 32 hearing scheduled but Ciccarelli said somewhere, sometime (and I've seen it posted here many times) that an Article 32 hearing was scheduled for sometime during the time ML went missing.

jmo

alter ego

03-21-2008, 01:14 AM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

There probably was, especially with the getaway. CAL had 3 days shy of a month to take care of business.

I don't doubt a thing in this case.

Psst the link isn't good anymore but I do remember Rusty reporting this, if that helps.

jmo [/*]

I got this link to work

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0801/15/cnr.06.html

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 01:14 AM

Originally posted by alter ego

Good job!

I wonder what made him think it was planned? [/*]

I wish we knew.. maybe communications evidence that we are not privy to.

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 01:15 AM

Originally posted by alter ego

I got this link to work

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0801/15/cnr.06.html [/*]

Thanks, Alter!

Babes

03-21-2008, 01:19 AM

i remember a story on one article when Maria and Christine accidentally see each other outside a store ( is it walmart? ) - then Christine called her a "*1t*h" - Do you guys remember if they become physical here or how did Maria responded to Christine here?

BarbraAllen

03-21-2008, 01:20 AM

Originally posted by baywench

I saw that explained actually because I thought the same thing. Initial autopsy reports mean that nothing surfaced from the examination as the cause of death (gun shot, heart enlargement etc) and therefore they would have to wait until the toxicology that was collected from the autopsy was collected. I think the confusion is coming because not all cases would have multiple autopys in fact some would have none at all. IMO [/*]

I was wandering around and finally found you guys! Good to see everyone and special note to GentleBreeze: I am so glad your daughter is feeling a little better!

Baywench what you say here makes perfect sense to me regarding the question of initial report.

BarbraAllen

03-21-2008, 01:24 AM

Originally posted by alter ego

Good job!

I wonder what made him think it was planned? [/*]

Maybe I am just not as caught up as I should be, but couldn't he mean "planned" as in the sense of "planned the coverup and getaway" AFTER the murder?

Actually I have never thought this was planned but yesterday when it was posted that Cesar said in his note that he went to the bus station with Maria: for some reason I had never realized that before, did not remember hearing that. But that one fact really gives me pause. I don't know why it sticks out so much but it does.

nuttintodo

03-21-2008, 01:25 AM

Originally posted by alter ego

I got this link to work

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0801/15/cnr.06.html [/*]

From alter's link above:

The interesting thing is apparently that tip on the location of that truck came from somewhere here in Onslow County the sheriff told me the tip was generated from here. per Rusty Dornin

Apparently that tip came from the letter to CSL that was intercepted...

And the sheriff's department has said before there is that possibility that Laurean is already in hiding. The sheriff also did tell me that he thinks there may have been some planning. There is some evidence in this case that this whole thing was planned, including the getaway. So they are not overly optimistic that they are going to be apprehending him immediately following the location of this truck -- Kyra? per Rusty Dornin

alter ego

03-21-2008, 01:28 AM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

Thanks, Alter! [/*]You're quite welcome!

Babes

03-21-2008, 01:30 AM

Originally posted by alter ego
You're quite welcome! [/*]

lol looks like you are multi tasking on these boards - posting on 2 threads :)

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 01:39 AM

Originally posted by nelkirk

It still had to go to an Article 32 Investigation...when the DNA was presented into evidence, then it eould have proven that he had had sexual contact with ML and he would have been charged with lying in an official investigation and probably with adultery...then a Court Martial would be held and the military panel would have passed judgement on those charges and determined his penalty. [/*]

Thanks, Nelkirk...

alter ego

03-21-2008, 01:40 AM

Originally posted by BarbraAllen

Maybe I am just not as caught up as I should be, but couldn't he mean "planned" as in the sense of "planned the coverup and getaway" AFTER the murder?

Actually I have never thought this was planned but yesterday when it was posted that Cesar said in his note that he went to the bus station with Maria: for some reason I had never realized that before, did not remember hearing that. But that one fact really gives me pause. I don't know why it sticks out so much but it does. [/*]
But did he go with Maria or simply purchase the ticket in her name?

alter ego

03-21-2008, 01:40 AM

Originally posted by Babes

lol looks like you are multi tasking on these boards - posting on 2 threads :) [/*]

(and 2 other boards :tongue: )

alter ego

03-21-2008, 01:43 AM

BarbraAllen

03-21-2008, 01:43 AM

Originally posted by alter ego

But did he go with Maria or simply purchase the ticket in her name? [/*]

Well, the Yellow Jacket man says it was Maria who bought the ticket, so, who knows?
I have doubts the YJ man could so positively identify someone a month later, though. And I believe it was determined there were no cameras there, at least no tapes from back then.

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 01:44 AM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

From alter's link above:

The interesting thing is apparently that tip on the location of that truck came from somewhere here in Onslow County the sheriff told me the tip was generated from here. per Rusty Dornin

Apparently that tip came from the letter to CSL that was intercepted...

And the sheriff's department has said before there is that possibility that Laurean is already in hiding. The sheriff also did tell me that he thinks there may have been some planning. There is some evidence in this case that this whole thing was planned, including the getaway. So they are not overly optimistic that they are going to be apprehending him immediately following the location of this truck -- Kyra? per Rusty Dornin [/*]

Thanks, Nuttin. Yes, I agree that the tip about the truck came from the intercepted letter to CSL from (supposedly) CL.

Babes

03-21-2008, 01:47 AM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

Thanks, Nuttin. Yes, I agree that the tip about the truck came from the intercepted letter to CSL from (supposedly) CL. [/*]

That's why i believed that the letters sent to CSL are also staged and part of the plan IMO

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 01:47 AM

Originally posted by nelkirk

Ciccarelli has said a lot of things off the top of his head and then the facts come out and dispute him.

(snipped)

[/*]

What is Cicarelli's title at NCIS? Do you know?

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 01:49 AM

Originally posted by Babes

That's why i believed that the letters sent to CSL are also staged and part of the plan IMO [/*]

and this is exactly why I put the parenthetical (supposedly). :)

BarbraAllen

03-21-2008, 01:50 AM

Thank you Nellkirk, I am so far behind the rest of you on the ins & outs of this case.

QUOTE]Originally posted by nelkirk

CSL is saying that her husband CAL told her that he went with Maria to the bus station.

We do not know what was in CSL's note because the DA has not released that info.

All we have is CSL telling us her side of the story.

According to cnn

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0801/15/cnr.06.html

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0801/14/cnr.01.html [/*][/QUOTE]

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 01:51 AM

I can't open up the SW/affidavit that Dubois wrote about CL's note because it is a PDF file (I can open it at work). Can somebody check the original (not a news report) and see if it says whether CL actually WENT to the bus station or whether it says he just HELPED her buy the ticket? TIA

(edited to add I believe it is on page 2 of the links thread)

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 01:53 AM

Originally posted by nelkirk

He is the head of the Camp Lejeune office of the NCIS. [/*]

Okay, thought so.

Do you think he received any kind of reprimand for his early possible mis-reporting? I think Sheriff Brown probably did. I am not sure WHO would be giving these reprimands since these two guys are in charge of their respective organizations.. but just wondering your thoughts on this?

alter ego

03-21-2008, 02:01 AM

Originally posted by nelkirk

Yes, the UMCJ does have that as a crime. [/*]It's a crime in a lot of civilian jurisdictions too, but rarely prosecuted.

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 02:16 AM

Originally posted by nelkirk

SB is an elected official and as such the only ones to "reprimand" him would be the DA and the voters

Ciccarelli would be "reprimanded" by the Department of the US Navy his employer.

It is obvious that he was unprepared for any type of interview...he was not the investigator in the Lauterbach case, that was done by one of his staff.. but he should have at least read the case file before he went public Or he could have just said "I do not know." [/*]

So why do you think they put him out there for the interview?

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 02:17 AM

Originally posted by nelkirk

http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/Cell+Phone+Search+Warrant.pdf

from the SW/affidavit

[/*]

thanks, Nelkirk.. but I was looking for the statements about whether he went to or helped her buy the bus ticket.. TIA!

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 02:20 AM

there is a link to that SW/affidavit that is not via the media.

alter ego

03-21-2008, 02:21 AM

Originally posted by Babes

That's why i believed that the letters sent to CSL are also staged and part of the plan IMO [/*]
Do you think the plan included the killing ?

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 02:21 AM

Originally posted by nelkirk

SB is an elected official and as such the only ones to "reprimand" him would be the DA and the voters

Ciccarelli would be "reprimanded" by the Department of the US Navy his employer.

It is obvious that he was unprepared for any type of interview...he was not the investigator in the Lauterbach case, that was done by one of his staff.. but he should have at least read the case file before he went public Or he could have just said "I do not know." [/*]

So.. do you think Ciccarelli was reprimanded for that? And what would be involved in his reprimand? I am trying to remember if we have heard anything from him since the MC PC....

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 02:28 AM

Originally posted by nelkirk

He put himself out there to do those interviews...as head of the office he chose to do the PR for that office. [/*]

Do you think the NCIS/MC will ever allow a fully transparent, i.e., external, investigation of what transpired between mid May and Jan 11?

alter ego

03-21-2008, 02:29 AM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
I can't open up the SW/affidavit that Dubois wrote about CL's note because it is a PDF file (I can open it at work). Can somebody check the original (not a news report) and see if it says whether CL actually WENT to the bus station or whether it says he just HELPED her buy the ticket? TIA

(edited to add I believe it is on page 2 of the links thread) [/*]

"as a result of the investigation, I know that Maria Laterbauch purchased a bus ticket to Texas on December 15, 2007. I learned this after receiving reports from OSCO Detective Jason Daughtry who interviewed eployess of the Trailways Bus Station in Jacksonville station."

great memory gaelicpeas!

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 02:32 AM

Originally posted by alter ego

"as a result of the investigation, I know that Maria Laterbauch purchased a bus ticket to Texas on December 15, 2007. I learned this after receiving reports from OSCO Detective Jason Daughtry who interviewed eployess of the Trailways Bus Station in Jacksonville station."

great memory gaelicpeas! [/*]

so Alter.. does that affidavit say whether CL physically went to the bus station with ML, or does it say she came to CL's house demanding money and he helped her with the bus ticket?

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 02:37 AM

Originally posted by nelkirk

According to the affidavit CSL told him that

k. Cesar told her

1. On December 15, 2007 Maria Lauterbach visted their residence at 103 Meadow Trail, Jacksonville North Carolina

2. Maria Lauterbach had a plan and was leaving the area

3. Maria Lauterbach demanded money from him

4. He went to the bus station and helped Lauterbach purchase a ticket

5. Later in the evening Maria Lauterbach returned to their residence and told him that her plan had failed and an argument ensued

6. Maria Lauterbach was acting disoriented, agitated and differently

7. Maria Lauterbach produced a knife and killed herself by slitting her throat

8. He became scared and took her body to a wooded area adjacent to the residence and buried her.

The only mention of the notes was what I posted up thread.

All of the information about the bus ticket purchase comes from Christina Laurean..it is HER STATEMENT...

We do not know what was in CAL's notes... [/*]

Thanks, Nelkirk. Is this from the original affidavit or from a media report?

alter ego

03-21-2008, 02:39 AM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

so Alter.. does that affidavit say whether CL physically went to the bus station with ML, or does it say she came to CL's house demanding money and he helped her with the bus ticket? [/*]yes - he went and 'helped her' purchase a ticket.

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 02:40 AM

The thing that really gets me about his "note" is that he says "later in the evening ML returned" to his house. Well... we already know we are working with a tight timeline. How much later in the evening, FGS?

I just don't buy any of this... JMO

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 02:42 AM

Originally posted by nelkirk

Official Affidavit [/*]

okay, thanks, Nelkirk.

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 02:44 AM

So... CL goes to the bus station to help ML buy a ticket. We know that is "around 5". So then what? CL goes home, I guess... and then his note says that "later in the evening" ML returned to his house. That, to me, doesn't imply that she came back to his house 5 minutes, or even 30 minutes after he returned to the house.

We were already working with a 90 minute maximum timeline between when ML could have returned to his house and when CSL got home from the party.

Something ain't right here... JMO

alter ego

03-21-2008, 02:45 AM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
The thing that really gets me about his "note" is that he says "later in the evening ML returned" to his house. Well... we already know we are working with a tight timeline. How much later in the evening, FGS?

I just don't buy any of this... JMO [/*]

It doesn't quite pass the sniff test.

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 02:46 AM

Originally posted by alter ego

It doesn't quite pass the sniff test. [/*]

nope, not at all.

And on that note, I must go to bed.. enjoy the evening :seeya:

alter ego

03-21-2008, 02:47 AM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
So... CL goes to the bus station to help ML buy a ticket. We know that is "around 5". So then what? CL goes home, I guess... and then his note says that "later in the evening" ML returned to his house. That, to me, doesn't imply that she came back to his house 5 minutes, or even 30 minutes after he returned to the house.

We were already working with a 90 minute maximum timeline between when ML could have returned to his house and when CSL got home from the party.

Something ain't right here... JMO [/*]Wasn't her car found at the bus station?

alter ego

03-21-2008, 02:48 AM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

nope, not at all.

And on that note, I must go to bed.. enjoy the evening :seeya: [/*]me too!

nite nite :seeya:

justagal71

03-21-2008, 05:04 AM

i havent been here in so long, and just read the autopsy report...how sad. i have a question though. has there been much said about the comforter she was wrapped in? did they do a check on the comforter that was presently on the bed when they searched the home? make of comforter where and when it could have been purchased?
my point is if they bought a new comforter because they used theirs to wrap her in...then the wife knew? no way shes going to come home and her comforter is missing and shes not going to snap...remember her husband is a cheater, her first thought would be that hes messing around and be demanding some answers. it also could have just been an old comforter in the garage who knows, but i hope it was at least checked out. i hope my rambling didnt confuse the heck out of ya.

henry

03-21-2008, 06:49 AM

Originally posted by justagal71
i havent been here in so long, and just read the autopsy report...how sad. i have a question though. has there been much said about the comforter she was wrapped in? did they do a check on the comforter that was presently on the bed when they searched the home? make of comforter where and when it could have been purchased?
my point is if they bought a new comforter because they used theirs to wrap her in...then the wife knew? no way shes going to come home and her comforter is missing and shes not going to snap...remember her husband is a cheater, her first thought would be that hes messing around and be demanding some answers. it also could have just been an old comforter in the garage who knows, but i hope it was at least checked out. i hope my rambling didnt confuse the heck out of ya. [/*]

good morning! slept in this a.m. - fingers were tired yesterday.

the comforter was discussed, and exactly as you said . . . we don't have a clue! that's the short answer ;) the report only provided the color of maria's shirt - green - and no other colors of other items recovered . rsutherland did post over at jd news . . . although a generic statement . . . it does lead one to assume he's referencing xtina . . . jmo

" This is not a reference to the Maria investigation, but an explanation as to burden of proof in general. Our Office, and law enforcement nationwide, has a duty to proceed ethically and with integrity when we conduct criminal investigations. We have to make sure that we meet standards of proof by collecting evidence by lawful means. We try to meet two standards."

the above continues on & is located below the article in the "comments" section - it might be page 2 or 3 of the comments . . . jmo
http://www.jdnews.com/news/baby_55479___article.html/autopsy_clothing.html

henry

03-21-2008, 07:18 AM

Lyn_T

03-21-2008, 08:49 AM

Originally posted by henry

okay . . . who's playing hide the upload . . . where is it? tia [/*]

Morning Henry, try this, there are several in the album
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn213/Nuttins198/100_1300.jpg

Just caught up from yesterday and last night. Had to take DH to urgent care with his knee and work yesterday so didn't make it in here.

caejde

03-21-2008, 09:17 AM

Morning everyone!

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 09:21 AM

Originally posted by caejde
Morning everyone! [/*]

Good morning :seeya:

SavannahStar

03-21-2008, 09:25 AM

Originally posted by nelkirk

Here is where the PROBLEM lies:

http://www.jdnews.com/news/divining_54879___article.html/brown_rods.html

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/11...rine/index.html

These are the only things that we know that are in the note...

CAL's note DOES NOT Say:

That he went with ML to the bus station to help her buy a ticket

That she returned to his house

[/*]

Do we know for sure that the note does NOT say he went to the bus station with her? I know CSL said that, but to my knowledge we've never seen the exact content of the notes, have we? :confused:

Good morning, all.

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 09:42 AM

Originally posted by SavannahStar

Do we know for sure that the note does NOT say he went to the bus station with her? I know CSL said that, but to my knowledge we've never seen the exact content of the notes, have we? :confused:

Good morning, all. [/*]

I thought he left several notes. And IIRC, you are correct - we do not know exactly what the notes said.

JMO, and good morning :seeya:

henry

03-21-2008, 10:02 AM

Originally posted by Lyn_T

Morning Henry, try this, there are several in the album
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn213/Nuttins198/100_1300.jpg

Just caught up from yesterday and last night. Had to take DH to urgent care with his knee and work yesterday so didn't make it in here. [/*]

:seeya: glad you're back . . . dh okay? hope so. now my mia list has been reduced by 1 . . . still waiting for some others to reappear :)

thanks for the link . . . any chance you can post the others? and are they from nuttintodo's photobucket? thanks!

Lyn_T

03-21-2008, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by henry

:seeya: glad you're back . . . dh okay? hope so. now my mia list has been reduced by 1 . . . still waiting for some others to reappear :)

thanks for the link . . . any chance you can post the others? and are they from nuttintodo's photobucket? thanks! [/*]

Thanks Henry, they are in that photobucket if you have the link. I got absorbed in the album, had never seen CL's hs pic before. Something about that guy, he has hollow eyes, no expression, sparkle etc to me. JMO

DH is doing better, shot of cortizone, steroid and fluid drawn off, been out of work all week. Now I am ready for a road trip.

nuttintodo

03-21-2008, 10:30 AM

Originally posted by henry

okay . . . who's playing hide the upload . . . where is it? tia [/*]

As Lynn_T has posted, the pages (front, 2nd page and back page) are all in my photobucket album. They are the first thirteen pictures there.

http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn213/Nuttins198/?special_track=nav_tab_album

Lynn_T: glad you are back and how is hubby?

Lynn Gweeny

03-21-2008, 10:42 AM

Originally posted by old_lady
Good morning everyone:seeya:

I am sticking to RS last communication of we believe she was killed on the 14th, until further informations comes out.

Also I am sticking to the official Autopsy report and not the preliminary report before autopsy.

jmoo [/*]

:seeya: Morning!

Laurean went on to tell his wife that Lauterbach slit her own throat following an argument between the two of them the evening of Dec. 15. He then got scared and buried her body in the backyard.

But Onslow county investigators believe Lauterbach was killed a day earlier than outlined in the search warrant.

"We still believe that the best evidence we have is that Maria was murdered on December 14th," said Captain Rick Sutherland.

(VIDEO of Captain Sutherland included in article)

http://www.nbc17.com/midatlantic/ncn/news.apx.-content-articles-NCN-2008-01-18-0004.html

ETA ~ Video of the ME in the Laurean backyard at @ 30 seconds:

http://www.wral.com/news/state/video/2294194/

caejde

03-21-2008, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny

:seeya: Morning!

Laurean went on to tell his wife that Lauterbach slit her own throat following an argument between the two of them the evening of Dec. 15. He then got scared and buried her body in the backyard.

But Onslow county investigators believe Lauterbach was killed a day earlier than outlined in the search warrant.

"We still believe that the best evidence we have is that Maria was murdered on December 14th," said Captain Rick Sutherland.

(VIDEO of Captain Sutherland included in article)

http://www.nbc17.com/midatlantic/ncn/news.apx.-content-articles-NCN-2008-01-18-0004.html [/*]

Thanks Lynn! I think that initially they were believing Maria was killed around 15th/16th since that is what was stated in the notes. But I think after more investigation and trying to piece together the last day she was seen, I think they have narrowed it to the 14th. I'm just not sure when on the 14th. I have thought...like someone else...maybe late on the 14th/early 15th. I don't know though.

strick10

03-21-2008, 10:53 AM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

I thought he left several notes. And IIRC, you are correct - we do not know exactly what the notes said.

JMO, and good morning :seeya: [/*]

We need to see those notes I say. What I find weird is that he left "several notes".....what he left one on the kitchen counter, one on bathroom sink? Scattered them throughout the house? Did he use post its to write his notes on. That's kinda funny he would write several notes. Kinda like he would think of something else and would grab a different sheet of paper to write that thought down. The several notes is funky. Why not a letter w/ several pages? Maybe he began writing notes before the morning he left.

Good morning all. :seeya:

henry

03-21-2008, 11:08 AM

thanks nuttintodo for the photobucket link - on page 2, 3rd row, 1st on the left - trying to read the message but can't make it out . . . any suggestions, computer wise, on how i can make it full screen/or larger?

nuttintodo

03-21-2008, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by henry
thanks nuttintodo for the photobucket link - on page 2, 3rd row, 1st on the left - trying to read the message but can't make it out . . . any suggestions, computer wise, on how i can make it full screen/or larger? [/*]

It reads:

Maria

God must be putting a soccer team together in Heaven.
Please Rest in Peace
Our prayers are with you
Z. S

Jacksonville H.S. Soccer

http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn213/Nuttins198/?action=view&current=New_LauterMem2.jpg

That was part of the make-shift memorial at DD's house on Idlebrook.

I took the original and magnified it to see exactly what it said.

nuttintodo

03-21-2008, 11:33 AM

Originally posted by strick10

We need to see those notes I say. What I find weird is that he left "several notes".....what he left one on the kitchen counter, one on bathroom sink? Scattered them throughout the house? Did he use post its to write his notes on. That's kinda funny he would write several notes. Kinda like he would think of something else and would grab a different sheet of paper to write that thought down. The several notes is funky. Why not a letter w/ several pages? Maybe he began writing notes before the morning he left.

Good morning all. :seeya: [/*]

IIRC, it was said or reported that CAL left 'notes', then mailed 'letters' and in each case, he had written something to his daughter and I'm thinking this was per RS's interview on AMW. (But as nelkirk had pointed out earlier, Dubois has in his SW/Affidavit that CSL told him what CAL told her, not what was actually in the notes)

That's why I asked in the 2nd round of questions to RS if CAL was a 'just a writing kind of guy'. I just do not understand the notes especially after he supposedly verbally told the wife on 1/10/08 what happened.

Did he stay up all night writing these notes?

Did he start writing them prior to 1/11/08, if so when?

Did he have to write the notes to make sure she had the whole story according to him?

Was this done to lessen her involvement before, during and after?

Did CSL ask or tell him to write the notes?

Or was this just his self-serving statement?

See the list is endless as to why he just had to write those notes.

JMO

nuttintodo

03-21-2008, 11:37 AM

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny

<snipped>

ETA ~ Video of the ME in the Laurean backyard at @ 30 seconds:

http://www.wral.com/news/state/video/2294194/ [/*]

Okay so obviously Dr. Garrett didn't go to the Laurean's on both days.

In this video Dr. G is in the backyard (most likely by the shallow grave/firepit) and I snagged the picture of him going in the front door of the house which occurred on the same day---1/12/08.

Thanks you LynnG! We were lost last night without you!!!

Happy Easter and don't eat too many peeps.

henry

03-21-2008, 11:43 AM

thanks nuttintodo . . . 2 more questions, when you have a chance . . .

on the picture "part of garage contents" with the riding lawn mower - middle/upper right tubs - is that the continuation of "inside laurean garage" the area bhind the tubs where the paint sample is? going to look for the other picture that we were discussing yesterday . . . thanks

also, does anyone know if chicky will be back to lead us on an easter egg hunt?

edit - that wasn't my second question . . . got sidetracked! what does maria's sweatshirt say on it (from 12/14 atm photo)

caejde

03-21-2008, 11:45 AM

SavannahStar

03-21-2008, 11:57 AM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

IIRC, it was said or reported that CAL left 'notes', then mailed 'letters' and in each case, he had written something to his daughter and I'm thinking this was per RS's interview on AMW. (But as nelkirk had pointed out earlier, Dubois has in his SW/Affidavit that CSL told him what CAL told her, not what was actually in the notes)

That's why I asked in the 2nd round of questions to RS if CAL was a 'just a writing kind of guy'. I just do not understand the notes especially after he supposedly verbally told the wife on 1/10/08 what happened.

Did he stay up all night writing these notes?

Did he start writing them prior to 1/11/08, if so when?

Did he have to write the notes to make sure she had the whole story according to him?

Was this done to lessen her involvement before, during and after?

Did CSL ask or tell him to write the notes?

Or was this just his self-serving statement?

See the list is endless as to why he just had to write those notes.

JMO [/*]

Nuttin, what if it was something as simple as he started drinking, knowing he was about to take off, and in the process of getting a little (or a lot) drunk, he just started writing his feelings, and what happened? In other words, not quite so sinister as sitting down planning WHY he was writing notes or planning a strategy that the notes would help? Just getting ready to take off, perhaps never to see his family again, ever, be on the run.....and got to jotting down his thoughts and emotions.

I think that's a possibility. :shrug:

GentleBreeze

03-21-2008, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

I believe she was killed and the cover-up was done between 5:30 pm and 7:00 pm.

jmoo [/*]

If he did write this in his notes or really did admit that he went with her to buy the ticket then he basically would have returned about 5:45 pm. However if it means he gave her the money for the ticket by withdrawing the $184.00 needed for the ticket that may have been done earlier and maybe at the same time she withdrew all the money she had available in her account. "helped" could mean just giving her the bus ticket money and of course the actual wording may only be an interpretation of what CSL thinks he said if this is just coming for CSL and I think that is what is confusing. We don't know exactly what he said and how accurate CSLs interpretations are.

So there would be a lull if he did just withdraw funds and then returned home only to have her come back again in around 5:45 pm. Maybe Maria stopped and bought the baby clothing before returning to his home and it was even later.

But then he was to have said "she came back later in the evening" and that is where it gets murky. It seems to imply there was a substantial time frame difference from when the first visit happened to the latter return.

I just do not believe he killed her instantly when she returned. I also don't believe he would have been able to do all the steps he would have to do in such a short time span. From her arriving...to the argument ensuing to a fever pitch...to the actual murder...then the hiding of her body and vehicle......cleaning the blood up in garage and inside home...removing the evidence....showering and redressing after discarding his clothes and be able to sit there relaxed when his wife walked through that door.

imoo

BarbraAllen

03-21-2008, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by SavannahStar

Nuttin, what if it was something as simple as he started drinking, knowing he was about to take off, and in the process of getting a little (or a lot) drunk, he just started writing his feelings, and what happened? In other words, not quite so sinister as sitting down planning WHY he was writing notes or planning a strategy that the notes would help? Just getting ready to take off, perhaps never to see his family again, ever, be on the run.....and got to jotting down his thoughts and emotions.

I think that's a possibility. :shrug: [/*]

Hi everyone, and special thanks to nuttintodo for the photobucket album!

SavannahStar, what you say here makes sense, about the notes. That certainly could explain the why of this.

But also, the thought of actually writing notes, by a person of that age, seems a little odd this day and time. It seems almost everyone does everything on the computer, especially younger people. Even I, (and I don't qualify as a younger person) often find it really laborious to write anything out these days, so much easier to type.

Of course I suppose we don't really know that his notes were NOT typed out, do we?

nuttintodo

03-21-2008, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by henry
thanks nuttintodo . . . 2 more questions, when you have a chance . . .

on the picture "part of garage contents" with the riding lawn mower - middle/upper right tubs - is that the continuation of "inside laurean garage" the area bhind the tubs where the paint sample is? going to look for the other picture that we were discussing yesterday . . . thanks

also, does anyone know if chicky will be back to lead us on an easter egg hunt?

edit - that wasn't my second question . . . got sidetracked! what does maria's sweatshirt say on it (from 12/14 atm photo) [/*]

The first picture (with riding lawn mower) does contain the pictures of the tubs which are in the inside laurean garage.

The pic of inside the Laurean garage is the view from the back door leading out of the garage into the backyard. This was stated on GVS's show as I had just re-watched it before I did the markings in that picture. That was also the same morning I was trying to screenshot the picture of the CL's that was shown on RS computer screen and he quickly went away from it.

In this picture: http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn213/Nuttins198/mcs_blckoragpink.jpg
This one shows the cover up area with the painted area.

It's hard to tell from what angles the pictures of the tubs/cover up area exactly where they were standing when the pictures were taken.

Caejde answered about Maria's sweatshirt---it's Dayton on the front.

jmo

strick10

03-21-2008, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

IIRC, it was said or reported that CAL left 'notes', then mailed 'letters' and in each case, he had written something to his daughter and I'm thinking this was per RS's interview on AMW. (But as nelkirk had pointed out earlier, Dubois has in his SW/Affidavit that CSL told him what CAL told her, not what was actually in the notes)

That's why I asked in the 2nd round of questions to RS if CAL was a 'just a writing kind of guy'. I just do not understand the notes especially after he supposedly verbally told the wife on 1/10/08 what happened.

Did he stay up all night writing these notes?

Did he start writing them prior to 1/11/08, if so when?

Did he have to write the notes to make sure she had the whole story according to him?

Was this done to lessen her involvement before, during and after?

Did CSL ask or tell him to write the notes?

Or was this just his self-serving statement?

See the list is endless as to why he just had to write those notes.

JMO [/*]

I'm with you on this, eerie comment eh. To me a note is a short letter (short and to the point) or a memo which is also short. He wrote notes, why notes why not one letter explaining what happened the day/night Maria was killed. Kinda strange to me. It's as if he wrote note then later decided to add another comment and wrote another note.

alter ego

03-21-2008, 12:26 PM

nuttintodo

03-21-2008, 12:30 PM

nuttintodo

03-21-2008, 12:37 PM

Okay, I thought I had another picture of the garage and I did but forgot to upload it to the new album.

In this picture: http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn213/Nuttins198/sbiclgarage.jpg

The view is from the front of the garage and in it you can see where it appears the SBI agent is squatting down looking at the area of the cover up. There's the back door that leads out into the backyard. And as an aside, the man in the brown jacket is RS.

jmo

GentleBreeze

03-21-2008, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by strick10

I'm with you on this, eerie comment eh. To me a note is a short letter (short and to the point) or a memo which is also short. He wrote notes, why notes why not one letter explaining what happened the day/night Maria was killed. Kinda strange to me. It's as if he wrote note then later decided to add another comment and wrote another note. [/*]

I find them very strange. What their true intents were I think only CSL and CL knows.

But lets take that he DID go to the bus station with Maria to buy the ticket and it was purchased around 5 pm. That means he would have arrived back home around 5:45pm.....then add the statement made that she came back LATER in the evening after the bus station trip and really they are going to base a lot of this case on those notes and CSLs statements, then by those words it wasn't at 5:45 pm but later in the evening. :confused:

Did he leave clues in his notes? CSL arrived home "later in the evening."

imoo

caejde

03-21-2008, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

I find them very strange. What their true intents were I think only CSL and CL knows.

But lets take that he DID go to the bus station with Maria to buy the ticket and it was purchased around 5 pm. That means he would have arrived back home around 5:45pm.....then add the statement made that she came back LATER in the evening after the bus station trip and really they are going to base a lot of this case on those notes and CSLs statements, then by those words it wasn't at 5:45 pm but later in the evening. :confused:

Did he leave clues in his notes? CSL arrived home "later in the evening."

imoo [/*]

I wonder what time Maria initially went to his house? Her whereabouts after noon that day is unknown except the 2:30 pm phone call with her mom, the 4:20 pm visit to the ATM, and the 5 pm trip to the bus station. What about in between??