Discuss the Maria Lauterbach case [Archive] - Page 2

alter ego

03-21-2008, 12:48 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

I find them very strange. What their true intents were I think only CSL and CL knows.

But lets take that he DID go to the bus station with Maria to buy the ticket and it was purchased around 5 pm. That means he would have arrived back home around 5:45pm.....then add the statement made that she came back LATER in the evening after the bus station trip and really they are going to base a lot of this case on those notes and CSLs statements, then by those words it wasn't at 5:45 pm but later in the evening. :confused:

Did he leave clues in his notes? CSL arrived home "later in the evening."

imoo [/*]

And he talks about Maria having a plan and her plan failing and so she ends up back at his house.

Was it really his plan that failed with Maria's refusal to get on the bus and leave? Or was the bus ticket just a ruse to make LE think Maria had left of her own accord, which also explains the 'note' Maria supposedly left that Durham found.

caejde

03-21-2008, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

Happy Easter Caejde!

I really don't know but it seems by the notes left by CL and what CSL said to police that the demanding of money and him going with her to purchase the bus ticket was the first initial physical contact made.

imo:shrug: [/*]

Happy Easter to you as well! Hope your daughter is doing better!

I don't know either. I had just wondered if Maria and him made contact before and maybe he was supposed to meet her at the bus station and didn't. Too many unknowns here.

GentleBreeze

03-21-2008, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by alter ego

And he talks about Maria having a plan and her plan failing and so she ends up back at his house.

Was it really his plan that failed with Maria's refusal to get on the bus and leave? Or was the bus ticket just a ruse to make LE think Maria had left of her own accord, which also explains the 'note' Maria supposedly left that Durham found. [/*]

How nice it would be to really know but I have always felt she WAS planning to leave it all behind. I think she did willingly buy the El Paso ticket and CS said they have learned the connection concerning El Paso.

Since he was not seen with her buying the ticket and I do believe they went in separate vehicles...he would not have known that she got the ticket for the 15th if she had told him she was planning on leaving the 14th. I do think she returned when those plans fell through. What time that occurred is the mystery much like everything else in this case.

imoo

nuttintodo

03-21-2008, 12:57 PM

Originally posted by caejde

I wonder what time Maria initially went to his house? Her whereabouts after noon that day is unknown except the 2:30 pm phone call with her mom, the 4:20 pm visit to the ATM, and the 5 pm trip to the bus station. What about in between?? [/*]

Yes this is very true---

Did Maria first go to CL's after the 2:30 phone call with her mother and then go back to DD's?

Did Maria change her clothes while she was home packing and writing her note to DD?

Did she wear the Dayton sweatshirt over the green sweater? If she did where is the Dayton sweatshirt now?

Was this perhaps the time when Maria may have purchased the item of baby clothing? I only mention this because of the "melted plastic bag that contains an item of baby clothing" per the Autopsy report.

I just don't see where Maria had enough time to make her withdrawal, go to CL's, make it to the bus station and purchse her ticket by 5pm.

jmo

GentleBreeze

03-21-2008, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by caejde

Happy Easter to you as well! Hope your daughter is doing better!

I don't know either. I had just wondered if Maria and him made contact before and maybe he was supposed to meet her at the bus station and didn't. Too many unknowns here. [/*]

Right. I know CS said that prior contact had been made. I am not sure exactly what that means. Or if it means contacts were being made from time to time before the 14th.

I am just going by the words that have been stated by CSL where she said Maria came there demanding money the first time and he helped her buy the ticket. I think they have both his and Maria's financial activities at that time.

It does tie in somewhat. She did buy the ticket and then she had to make it for the 15th instead of the 14th.

imoo

Mimi428

03-21-2008, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by alter ego

To keep the story straight maybe? Like a panic induced disjointed thought process would do.

:shrug: [/*]

I can see how that could happen. Since one of my top theories is that Cesar had help from someone besides Christina (& maybe her as well) it has always struck me that one possible reason for multiple notes is so that everyone can remain on the same page (no pun intended).

This IS the man who is reported to have double checked with Christina before they went to visit the attorney by saying 'are you with me on this?' (paraphrase).

Maybe Cesar wanted to remind his helper(s) of what the agreed storyline was after he took off. Stick to the story. Stick to the program. Maria came to HIS house, Maria slit her own throat, Cesar just buried her, etc.

JMO

(can't catch up on the old posts, hope nothing of extreme importance was uncovered while I was gone)

alter ego

03-21-2008, 01:10 PM

Mimi428

03-21-2008, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by alter ego
But wasn't her car found at the bus station? [/*]

Yes, her car was found at the bus station. However, LE did state that it was not there throughout the entire time of her disappearance.

Sorry, no link, I'm going on recollection.

caejde

03-21-2008, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by alter ego
But wasn't her car found at the bus station? [/*]

Yes, her car was found at the bus station. But Capt Sutherland did say they know it was not there the entire time from 12/14 to the day they found it.

GentleBreeze

03-21-2008, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

Yes this is very true---

Did Maria first go to CL's after the 2:30 phone call with her mother and then go back to DD's?

Did Maria change her clothes while she was home packing and writing her note to DD?

Did she wear the Dayton sweatshirt over the green sweater? If she did where is the Dayton sweatshirt now?

Was this perhaps the time when Maria may have purchased the item of baby clothing? I only mention this because of the "melted plastic bag that contains an item of baby clothing" per the Autopsy report.

I just don't see where Maria had enough time to make her withdrawal, go to CL's, make it to the bus station and purchase her ticket by 5pm.

jmo [/*]

Happy Easter to you and your family, Nuttin!

Ah such mysteries , huh? I do think LE have uncovered the time line events though and narrowed them down.

I am now feeling the last time she came to his home may be later than I first thought.

I think when she talked with her mom is when she decided to leave DD the note and gather her personal items.

The problem with the ticket agent he said it was AROUND 5pm which could be a window either way of earlier or later. At that time of the holiday crunch they are swamped with those buying tickets that are going on leave.

imoo:seeya:

nuttintodo

03-21-2008, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by alter ego
But wasn't her car found at the bus station? [/*]

Her car was found at the bus station/Checkers/Merita bread store parking lot on 1/7/08.

RS said her car had not been parked there from 12/14/07 to 1/7/08 per our first round of questions to him.

Now if the car wasn't there (bus station) on or about 12/16 (isn't that the timeframe when Alander said he saw CAL driving it?), where was her car then? Was it in their garage?

Yet according to Randi Kaye of CNN, a Checkers employee said the car had been there since 12/15 or there abouts.

jmo

LynnG can you find the video of Randi Kaye?

GentleBreeze

03-21-2008, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by alter ego
But wasn't her car found at the bus station? [/*]

Yes and her car was supposed to have been seen at the Laureans by a neighbor. IIRC he said he remembered it because his ex had one like it.

I thought a worker in one of the places where the parking lot was located said the car had been parked there since the 15th.

The neighbor iirc thought he saw Laurean driving it out of his driveway on the 16tth but he could be mistaken on the dates.

imo

strick10

03-21-2008, 01:23 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

I find them very strange. What their true intents were I think only CSL and CL knows.

But lets take that he DID go to the bus station with Maria to buy the ticket and it was purchased around 5 pm. That means he would have arrived back home around 5:45pm.....then add the statement made that she came back LATER in the evening after the bus station trip and really they are going to base a lot of this case on those notes and CSLs statements, then by those words it wasn't at 5:45 pm but later in the evening. :confused:

Did he leave clues in his notes? CSL arrived home "later in the evening."

imoo [/*]

Later in the evening to me would be after 8 or 9 o'clock, not before 7. To me that would be early evening. Good point. Now I wonder if he was leaving clues behind.

nuttintodo

03-21-2008, 01:25 PM

Here's question 16 with the answer(s):

16) Sheriff Brown made a statement early on that both Maria's car and cell phone had been tampered with. If so, what kind of tampering was involved? The cell phone was found by a citizen. The citizen tried to find the owner by calling some people stored in the phone. We know that the vehicle was not located at the bus station the entire time from 12/14/07 to 1/7/08.

It's on this thread: http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?threadid=325989 (post # 32)

GentleBreeze

03-21-2008, 01:28 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

Her car was found at the bus station/Checkers/Merita bread store parking lot on 1/7/08.

RS said her car had not been parked there from 12/14/07 to 1/7/08 per our first round of questions to him.

Now if the car wasn't there (bus station) on or about 12/16 (isn't that the timeframe when Alander said he saw CAL driving it?), where was her car then? Was it in their garage?

Yet according to Randi Kaye of CNN, a Checkers employee said the car had been there since 12/15 or there abouts.

jmo

LynnG can you find the video of Randi Kaye? [/*]

I think that is exactly where it was Nuttin. If he had parked it elsewhere he would have driven it from THAT location to drop it off at the bus station. He was seen pulling out of HIS driveway.

After that he could have pulled all sorts of stuff to the middle of the garage trying to make it look like they didn't park in there and of course he could use the excuse that it was a mess due to them painting the garage walls.

imoo

Lynn Gweeny

03-21-2008, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

Her car was found at the bus station/Checkers/Merita bread store parking lot on 1/7/08.

RS said her car had not been parked there from 12/14/07 to 1/7/08 per our first round of questions to him.

Now if the car wasn't there (bus station) on or about 12/16 (isn't that the timeframe when Alander said he saw CAL driving it?), where was her car then? Was it in their garage?

Yet according to Randi Kaye of CNN, a Checkers employee said the car had been there since 12/15 or there abouts.

jmo

LynnG can you find the video of Randi Kaye? [/*]

:seeya: Here ya go!

Missing Marine case mysterious (3:12)
CNN's Randi Kaye reports on many unanswered questions in the disappearance of a troubled and pregnant Marine.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/10/missing.marine/index.html?iref=newssearch#cnnSTCVideo

henry

03-21-2008, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

The first picture (with riding lawn mower) does contain the pictures of the tubs which are in the inside laurean garage.

The pic of inside the Laurean garage is the view from the back door leading out of the garage into the backyard. This was stated on GVS's show as I had just re-watched it before I did the markings in that picture. That was also the same morning I was trying to screenshot the picture of the CL's that was shown on RS computer screen and he quickly went away from it.

In this picture: http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn213/Nuttins198/mcs_blckoragpink.jpg
This one shows the cover up area with the painted area.

It's hard to tell from what angles the pictures of the tubs/cover up area exactly where they were standing when the pictures were taken.

Caejde answered about Maria's sweatshirt---it's Dayton on the front.

jmo [/*]

thanks . . . cause i'm trying to figure out which walls were painted in the garage - i went back trying to find the picture you posted above - there it looks like it was painted white . . . and in your other photobucket pictures - where you have the arrows pointing . . . it doesn't look like it was painted (just sheetrock w/taping) . . . am i looking at the same wall?

it was fun trying to read back & figure out when we were talking about it & also found gpeas color identification - also bookmarked that for future decorating reference.

also, on the radio just now (while i snuck out for a quick errand), i stand corrected . . . heard that "easter egg hunt" has been more correctly :eek: changed to "spring egg hunt" :eek:

nuttintodo

03-21-2008, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

Happy Easter to you and your family, Nuttin!

Ah such mysteries , huh? I do think LE have uncovered the time line events though and narrowed them down.

I am now feeling the last time she came to his home may be later than I first thought.

I think when she talked with her mom is when she decided to leave DD the note and gather her personal items.

The problem with the ticket agent he said it was AROUND 5pm which could be a window either way of earlier or later. At that time of the holiday crunch they are swamped with those buying tickets that are going on leave.

imoo:seeya: [/*]

Happy Easter to you and your family too! Just don't eat too many peeps or Cadbury eggs, LOL.

Ah yes the mysteries!

Here's what Mr. Hames said about the ticket purchase to wnct.com:

Roshaun Hames says the pregnant 20-year-old Marine Lance Corporal stationed at Camp Lejeune bought a bus ticket from him around 5 p.m. on December 14th.

Hames says he thinks Maria was alone when she bought the ticket on Dec. 14th. He says she asked him if it would be OK for her to leave her car parked at the station, but drove away from the station that day.

“There’s nothing to it, really,” Hames said. “She came in, she bought the ticket, and she asked me if she could leave her car out there. That’s pretty much it.”

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:sWlDLboml9MJ:www.wnct.com/midatlantic/nct/search.apx.-content-articles-NCT-2008-01-11-0006.html+Ticket+Agent:+Lauterbach+Bought+Ticket+t o+El+Paso&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

I do think since it had been a month since the purchase was made, Mr. Hames might have been a little fuzzy, since there are so many that go in and out of the bus station.

Also found this in the article too: Onslow County investigators found her car parked near the bus station on Monday. Bus station employees say it had been parked there ever since Dec. 15th.

Now I don't know exactly when this report aired but it appears to have been written prior to DD's return and CSL strolling in withe the notes. By now OCSD has probably narrowed a lot down.

jmo

nuttintodo

03-21-2008, 01:49 PM

Henry, that why I said, it's hard to tell from the angles, just where the photographer was standing when they took the pictures. Especially when none of us have actually stood in the garage or looked in the windows.

I'll have to go back and re-watch GVS from that date and listen again to just what was said by GVS and RS.

I do know what you are talking about, because in some pictures the wall is roughed-in drywalled and in others the wall is painted. Also there is the area by the window in the garage that looks completely unfinished, just the studs are visible.

Where's the hair pulling icon when you need it?

Oh and one other thing, Lynn_T is right that the garage window was open on 1/12/08 as I saw that in the wral video link from last night. Also in the picture looking into the garage from the backdoor exit, it does appear the window is open there as well but it's hard to tell since the picture was obtained directly from the tv.

jmo

nuttintodo

03-21-2008, 01:50 PM

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny

:seeya: Here ya go!

Missing Marine case mysterious (3:12)
CNN's Randi Kaye reports on many unanswered questions in the disappearance of a troubled and pregnant Marine.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/10/missing.marine/index.html?iref=newssearch#cnnSTCVideo [/*]

TY LynnG! I knew I could count on you.

I do hope you are keeping all these filed (and I hope CNN doesn't remove theirs!) so we'll have them come trial time.

alter ego

03-21-2008, 02:06 PM

Ok, so her car wasn't parked at the bus station since the 14th.

And her plan to take off the 14th failed because she had to get a ticket for the 15th instead.

So after getting the bus ticket she went back to CL's house and ended up dead.

Jan Powell

03-21-2008, 02:28 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

How nice it would be to really know but I have always felt she WAS planning to leave it all behind. I think she did willingly buy the El Paso ticket and CS said they have learned the connection concerning El Paso.

Since he was not seen with her buying the ticket and I do believe they went in separate vehicles...he would not have known that she got the ticket for the 15th if she had told him she was planning on leaving the 14th. I do think she returned when those plans fell through. What time that occurred is the mystery much like everything else in this case.

imoo [/*]

This is my theory, I think she did willing PICK UP the ticket but I suspect it originated from El Paso as an E-Ticket or CC purchase.

She would have to identify herself to pick up tickets purchased either of these 2 ways. Which also means they would have her name in their computer.

That is also why she picked it up on the 14th but the ticket had a designated date of the 15th.

If Maria just took cash and went to the bus station it could be used for the next ride out and cash doesn't require any recorded ID and it's not bought by reservation for the next date.

(In my area, if you have the correct cash amount for a ticket, you can board a bus from any place a bus stops in small towns that don't have an actual terminal. It doesn't require any ID computer entry just the correct bus fare.)

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 02:38 PM

Assuming we can believe that CL accompanied ML to the bus station to help her buy the ticket (why would he say that if he didn't?), then, IMO, he either forced her to go or she went on her own free will. (Is there another option?)

I have theories that fit either scenario, but I lean more toward her being forced to do all of this.

JMO

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 02:39 PM

Originally posted by Jan Powell

This is my theory, I think she did willing PICK UP the ticket but I suspect it originated from El Paso as an E-Ticket or CC purchase.

She would have to identify herself to pick up tickets purchased either of these 2 ways. Which also means they would have her name in their computer.

That is also why she picked it up on the 14th but the ticket had a designated date of the 15th.

If Maria just took cash and went to the bus station it could be used for the next ride out and cash doesn't require any recorded ID and it's not bought by reservation for the next date.

(In my area, if you have the correct cash amount for a ticket, you can board a bus from any place a bus stops in small towns that don't have an actual terminal. It doesn't require any ID computer entry just the correct bus fare.) [/*]

Interesting, Jan....

What is your theory of the El Paso connection? Do you think it was someone CL knew? Or someone ML knew? Or something related to an adoption? Or, or (I could go on.. lol)

henry

03-21-2008, 02:50 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo
Henry, that why I said, it's hard to tell from the angles, just where the photographer was standing when they took the pictures. Especially when none of us have actually stood in the garage or looked in the windows.

I'll have to go back and re-watch GVS from that date and listen again to just what was said by GVS and RS.

I do know what you are talking about, because in some pictures the wall is roughed-in drywalled and in others the wall is painted. Also there is the area by the window in the garage that looks completely unfinished, just the studs are visible.

Where's the hair pulling icon when you need it?

Oh and one other thing, Lynn_T is right that the garage window was open on 1/12/08 as I saw that in the wral video link from last night. Also in the picture looking into the garage from the backdoor exit, it does appear the window is open there as well but it's hard to tell since the picture was obtained directly from the tv.

jmo [/*]

hah! i was sooo glad when you said you understood what i was talking about :) crap . . . wish there was a better layout of the house . . . cause then it would be easier, relatively, to figure out the walls and which one(s) specifically were painted.

oh . . . and also thank you for your photobucket - it's a great reference/refresher

edit: gpeas - can you check your mailbox please :)

Jan Powell

03-21-2008, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

Interesting, Jan....

What is your theory of the El Paso connection? Do you think it was someone CL knew? Or someone ML knew? Or something related to an adoption? Or, or (I could go on.. lol) [/*]

To me it would be so "bizarre" for Maria and CL to have any form of a relationship after their history, but she supposedly freely went to his house. So I guess it could be a Maria and CL's family connection and a family adoption.

I think the rub is CSL didn't buy into it.

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 03:00 PM

Originally posted by Jan Powell

To me it would be so "bizarre" for Maria and CL to have any form of a relationship after their history, but she supposedly freely went to his house. So I guess it could be a Maria and CL's family connection and a family adoption.

I think the rub is CSL didn't buy into it. [/*]

interesting theory!

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 03:20 PM

Originally posted by Jan Powell

This is my theory, I think she did willing PICK UP the ticket but I suspect it originated from El Paso as an E-Ticket or CC purchase.

She would have to identify herself to pick up tickets purchased either of these 2 ways. Which also means they would have her name in their computer.

That is also why she picked it up on the 14th but the ticket had a designated date of the 15th.

If Maria just took cash and went to the bus station it could be used for the next ride out and cash doesn't require any recorded ID and it's not bought by reservation for the next date.

(In my area, if you have the correct cash amount for a ticket, you can board a bus from any place a bus stops in small towns that don't have an actual terminal. It doesn't require any ID computer entry just the correct bus fare.) [/*]

But the bus guy in the yellow jacket says she BOUGHT the ticket there. Greyhound requires ID at purchase/pickup so she would have had to show ID when buying the ticket, but not when boarding the bus.

But, since I've always thought that Cesar and Maria had matching tickets, I believe HIS was bought online at an earlier date and possibly under one of his aliases.

And I believe that's exactly why he was able to board a bus in Raleigh/Durham without having to board it in Jacksonville.

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 03:39 PM

nuttintodo

03-21-2008, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

But the bus guy in the yellow jacket says she BOUGHT the ticket there. Greyhound requires ID at purchase/pickup so she would have had to show ID when buying the ticket, but not when boarding the bus.

But, since I've always thought that Cesar and Maria had matching tickets, I believe HIS was bought online at an earlier date and possibly under one of his aliases.

And I believe that's exactly why he was able to board a bus in Raleigh/Durham without having to board it in Jacksonville. [/*]

He does say that Maria bought her ticket---it's in the excerpts from the article I posted above. Wonder if he remembered Maria solely on her asking to leave her car there? As I said earlier, there are a lot of folks going in and out of there all the time.

Now as to when CAL bought his, LE knows but won't tell. So either he bought at the Raleigh bus terminal or he purchased it once he arrived at Durham's bus terminal, which is across the street from DPD. Or he could have withdrew the money and purchased one in Jacksonville, but wouldn't the ticket agent in Jacksonville remembered buying his ticket?

Oh did you see where MW saw a rolled up rug yesterday? She stopped and kicked it for you! ;)

jmo

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 03:46 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

So... are you saying CL tricked ML into this "plan"? Or are you saying CL really was going to leave with ML? [/*]

I believe they were planning on leaving together.

JMO of course.

If she was planning on leaving on her own, by herself, there's no need to involve Cesar. And if she couldn't leave until the next day, she has no reason to go to Cesar's house.

That is, unless there had been prior planning of the trip - between the two of them.

:shrug:

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

He does say that Maria bought her ticket---it's in the excerpts from the article I posted above. Wonder if he remembered Maria solely on her asking to leave her car there? As I said earlier, there are a lot of folks going in and out of there all the time.

Now as to when CAL bought his, LE knows but won't tell. So either he bought at the Raleigh bus terminal or he purchased it once he arrived at Durham's bus terminal, which is across the street from DPD. Or he could have withdrew the money and purchased one in Jacksonville, but wouldn't the ticket agent in Jacksonville remembered buying his ticket?

Oh did you see where MW saw a rolled up rug yesterday? She stopped and kicked it for you! ;)

jmo [/*]

See I knew there was a rug rolled up somewhere in the J'ville area. I'm psychic like that, you know.

;)

(Wonder what she would have done if it kicked back?)

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 03:48 PM

BarbraAllen

03-21-2008, 03:51 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

I believe they were planning on leaving together.

JMO of course.

If she was planning on leaving on her own, by herself, there's no need to involve Cesar. And if she couldn't leave until the next day, she has no reason to go to Cesar's house.

That is, unless there had been prior planning of the trip - between the two of them.

:shrug: [/*]

I have come around to thinking of it this way too, crymeariver.

I believe Cesar was the instigator, that maybe he had fallen in love with Maria. I think he no longer loved his wife in that way, if he ever did. If he was torn at all, I think it was because of their little girl.

Maria was most likely torn but if it is true that she was upset because her family wanted her to give up her baby, and if Cesar said the right things to her, it is possible that in her state of confusion and sadness she might have agreed to go away with him.

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 03:51 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

He does say that Maria bought her ticket---it's in the excerpts from the article I posted above. Wonder if he remembered Maria solely on her asking to leave her car there? As I said earlier, there are a lot of folks going in and out of there all the time.

Now as to when CAL bought his, LE knows but won't tell. So either he bought at the Raleigh bus terminal or he purchased it once he arrived at Durham's bus terminal, which is across the street from DPD. Or he could have withdrew the money and purchased one in Jacksonville, but wouldn't the ticket agent in Jacksonville remembered buying his ticket?

Oh did you see where MW saw a rolled up rug yesterday? She stopped and kicked it for you! ;)

jmo [/*]

Early, early on - right around the time of the Shreveport sighting (which is on the route from J'ville to El Paso BTW), somebody (and I don't recall who it was) said that the ticket had been purchased earlier FOR Cesar.

I can't see him buying a bus ticket on the 11th. I don't believe that's when he bought it. I believe he already had it in his possession.

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

See I knew there was a rug rolled up somewhere in the J'ville area. I'm psychic like that, you know.

;)

(Wonder what she would have done if it kicked back?) [/*]

(she would have pooed her pants)

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

(she would have pooed her pants) [/*]

I knew that!

:eek:

Ask me something else!

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 03:54 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

So..... do you think he was supposed to leave on Dec 14th, too? [/*]

Yes

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 03:56 PM

I also find it odd that he sent a letter giving the location of the truck...why would he do that???? psychic cryme, any theories?

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 03:59 PM

Originally posted by BarbraAllen

I have come around to thinking of it this way too, crymeariver.

I believe Cesar was the instigator, that maybe he had fallen in love with Maria. I think he no longer loved his wife in that way, if he ever did. If he was torn at all, I think it was because of their little girl.

Maria was most likely torn but if it is true that she was upset because her family wanted her to give up her baby, and if Cesar said the right things to her, it is possible that in her state of confusion and sadness she might have agreed to go away with him. [/*]

Oh, I believe that little girl was the glue that held them together. I'm not seeing any kind of "undying love" going on between Cesar and Christina.

But that's jmo so don't everybody jump up and say I didn't even know them.....

strick10

03-21-2008, 04:00 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

Yes [/*]

If they were both leaving together why not just take CALs truck or Marias car. Other than maybe CSL and Marias parents no one would be wondering where they were or be looking for them until the following Monday. By that time they would be in Mexico or wherever. It would be a heck of alot quicker to get there as well. He could've left the truck after they reached their destination somewhere that someone known to him could pick it up from to avoid being found after that Monday.

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 04:01 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5
I also find it odd that he sent a letter giving the location of the truck...why would he do that???? psychic cryme, any theories? [/*]

Hmmmm, did HE send the letter or was the location of where the truck was SUPPOSED to be left in the pre-written letter?

strick10

03-21-2008, 04:01 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

Oh, I believe that little girl was the glue that held them together. I'm not seeing any kind of "undying love" going on between Cesar and Christina.

But that's jmo so don't everybody jump up and say I didn't even know them..... [/*]

IMO that little girl is what is probably gonna cause him to put his guard down.

caejde

03-21-2008, 04:01 PM

Had some observations as I was driving back from Wal Mart a little bit ago. Traffic was crazy today-alot of people are off and schools are closed. Anyway, I live a little bit off of Western heading toward Gum Branch road--don't ask me what direction because I don't know. Anyway, I timed myself from the time I was in Wal Mart parking lot til I got home and it was just over 10 minutes. I could have been to Gum Branch road in just another couple. From my house to the Laurean's, it's only 3 miles. So from the time I left Wal Mart until the time I got to their house, I probably could have been there 20 minutes. Dont' know why, just thought I would post....to me it's possible Maria made it to his house in less than 45 minutes.

caejde

03-21-2008, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

Hmmmm, did HE send the letter or was the location of where the truck was SUPPOSED to be left in the pre-written letter? [/*]

I think it was in one of the letters that was postmarked Raleigh that he told Christina where he left the truck.

caejde

03-21-2008, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by strick10

IMO that little girl is what is probably gonna cause him to put his guard down. [/*]

I think so too...and I have a little theory that relates to Cesar not wanting to be with Christina and vice versa.

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by strick10

If they were both leaving together why not just take CALs truck or Marias car. Other than maybe CSL and Marias parents no one would be wondering where they were or be looking for them until the following Monday. By that time they would be in Mexico or wherever. It would be a heck of alot quicker to get there as well. He could've left the truck after they reached their destination somewhere that someone known to him could pick it up from to avoid being found after that Monday. [/*]

Well, by definition of "leaving it all behind" I would say don't take a car or truck that you're still making payments on, but that's just me.

:shrug:

nuttintodo

03-21-2008, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

Hmmmm, did HE send the letter or was the location of where the truck was SUPPOSED to be left in the pre-written letter? [/*]

Remember CNN reported the letter telling her where the truck was located was postmarked Raleigh-Durham? In the letter he supposedly wrote his truck would be by the whatever we visited or stayed before (paraphrasing of course).

You know I still haven't found that Raleigh-Durham post office. It would have been stamped Raleigh, Durham, RTP, Chapel Hill, Cary or something like that, not Raleigh-Durham.

nuttintodo

03-21-2008, 04:08 PM

Originally posted by strick10

IMO that little girl is what is probably gonna cause him to put his guard down. [/*]

I hope it does and that happens SOON.

strick10

03-21-2008, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

Well, by definition of "leaving it all behind" I would say don't take a car or truck that you're still making payments on, but that's just me.

:shrug: [/*]

I think Maria meant she was leaving the problems behind, the current life she had and didn't want to deal w/ anymore. The payments would still be due whether you were w/ the truck or not. Just seems easier for them to take the fastest means possible if they were leaving together. Probably more comfortable in the truck for Maria if she had to lay down. JMO

GentleBreeze

03-21-2008, 04:10 PM

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

Remember CNN reported the letter telling her where the truck was located was postmarked Raleigh-Durham? In the letter he supposedly wrote his truck would be by the whatever we visited or stayed before (paraphrasing of course).

You know I still haven't found that Raleigh-Durham post office. It would have been stamped Raleigh, Durham, RTP, Chapel Hill, Cary or something like that, not Raleigh-Durham. [/*]

What I'm saying is that I believe the location of the truck was pre-determined before he left.

Who knows about the postmark? :shrug: That's the same "city" we heard throughout the Duke case.

SavannahStar

03-21-2008, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

I believe they were planning on leaving together.

JMO of course.

If she was planning on leaving on her own, by herself, there's no need to involve Cesar. And if she couldn't leave until the next day, she has no reason to go to Cesar's house.

That is, unless there had been prior planning of the trip - between the two of them.

:shrug: [/*]

Not sure I agree cryme. (And keep in mind I really DON'T have any set theory of my own.) What do you mean by "involve" Cesar? We still don't really know their relationship. And even IF she were planning on leaving on her own, there may well be some reason or other that she wanted/needed to talk to Cesar. The "reason" to go to Cesar's house could be one of many, many that we just don't know.

GentleBreeze

03-21-2008, 04:13 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

Well, by definition of "leaving it all behind" I would say don't take a car or truck that you're still making payments on, but that's just me.

:shrug: [/*]

I certainly wouldn't take an identifiable vehicle...his or hers. If they were leaving they knew it wasn't going to remain a secret long.

imoo

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 04:13 PM

Originally posted by strick10

I think Maria meant she was leaving the problems behind, the current life she had and didn't want to deal w/ anymore. The payments would still be due whether you were w/ the truck or not. Just seems easier for them to take the fastest means possible if they were leaving together. Probably more comfortable in the truck for Maria if she had to lay down. JMO [/*]

Who's to say Cesar wasn't leaving it all behind too? (I mean, he eventually did anyway). I think both of them knew the jig was up with the MC.

:shrug:

strick10

03-21-2008, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

Who's to say Cesar wasn't leaving it all behind too? (I mean, he eventually did anyway). I think both of them knew the jig was up with the MC.

:shrug: [/*]

Maybe :shrug:

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

Yes [/*]

Okay... so, if they were both planning to leave on Dec 14 on the 5:20 bus....

ML had come to CL's house to pick him up to head to the bus station.

CL had bought his earlier and had his ticket in his possession... ML went in on Dec 14 to buy hers, but bus was full so she bought one for the next day, figuring that was better than no ticket. Then they wait around for the Dec 14 bus to see if maybe there is a no-show and she will be able to get on anyway. But no, the bus is full, so they have to wait til the next day (or another day).

So now it is 5:20 - they stand around talking about what to do, and realize they better take CL back to his house, plus ML has already left the note for Durham (although I don't know why they wouldn't just go to some motel).

By the time they get there, it is after 6 pm.... they stand around talking some more, trying to figure out what to do, in walks CSL.

Is that your theory, or close to it?

SavannahStar

03-21-2008, 04:31 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

Christina has not been charged with murder. If that were the case, wouldn't she be under arrest?

We know Maria died at that time and that would put both Cesar and Christina there. They would both be charged with murder no matter who does the deed.

jmoo [/*]

Exactly. And that's a problem with A LOT of these theories, actually. Well IMO anyway.

nuttintodo

03-21-2008, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

What I'm saying is that I believe the location of the truck was pre-determined before he left.

Who knows about the postmark? :shrug: That's the same "city" we heard throughout the Duke case. [/*]

Most likely the truck's location was pre-determined.

I wonder what else was pre-determined?

I know what you're saying about the postmark, but it's just odd to me it would say Raleigh-Durham, that's all. :shrug:

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 04:33 PM

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 04:34 PM

I will bb in a few - but I still want to hear what you say, Cryme!

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 04:44 PM

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

Okay... so, if they were both planning to leave on Dec 14 on the 5:20 bus....

ML had come to CL's house to pick him up to head to the bus station.

CL had bought his earlier and had his ticket in his possession... ML went in on Dec 14 to buy hers, but bus was full so she bought one for the next day, figuring that was better than no ticket. Then they wait around for the Dec 14 bus to see if maybe there is a no-show and she will be able to get on anyway. But no, the bus is full, so they have to wait til the next day (or another day).

So now it is 5:20 - they stand around talking about what to do, and realize they better take CL back to his house, plus ML has already left the note for Durham (although I don't know why they wouldn't just go to some motel).

By the time they get there, it is after 6 pm.... they stand around talking some more, trying to figure out what to do, in walks CSL.

Is that your theory, or close to it? [/*]

Pretty darn close.

But I've always thought that Christina killed Maria. From day 1.

I mean, a girl comes to your house supposedly to tell you she's leaving town and will be out of your life and your wife's life forever and you what....haul off and kill her?

I don't think so.

Jan Powell

03-21-2008, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

But the bus guy in the yellow jacket says she BOUGHT the ticket there. Greyhound requires ID at purchase/pickup so she would have had to show ID when buying the ticket, but not when boarding the bus.

But, since I've always thought that Cesar and Maria had matching tickets, I believe HIS was bought online at an earlier date and possibly under one of his aliases.

And I believe that's exactly why he was able to board a bus in Raleigh/Durham without having to board it in Jacksonville. [/*]

You could be right but I have a little problem with the bus guy in the yellow jacket being able to be so specific about it being Maria unless her name was in the history on his computer. If it's an E-ticket you get a (email) computer print out, if it's someone elses CC that pays for the ticket, it requires a record too of both purchaser and the ticketholder.

E-Tickets and CC transactions are two ways to get your name in the computer.

IMO, the only reason his story has merit is something unusual happened or he had her name. I would think there is a lot of traffic through that bus station to just randomly remember someone and showing an ID to pay cash for a ticket wouldn't be it

I'm just trying to see how many of my loose ends I can tie into one single bus ticket purchase that a man in a yellow jacket could remember!

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by Jan Powell

You could be right but I have a little problem with the bus guy in the yellow jacket being able to be so specific about it being Maria unless her name was in the history on his computer. If it's an E-ticket you get a (email) computer print out, if it's someone elses CC that pays for the ticket, it requires a record too of both purchaser and the ticketholder.

E-Tickets and CC transactions are two ways to get your name in the computer.

IMO, the only reason his story has merit is something unusual happened or he had her name. I would think there is a lot of traffic through that bus station to just randomly remember someone and showing an ID to pay cash for a ticket wouldn't be it

I'm just trying to see how many of my loose ends I can tie into one single bus ticket purchase that a man in a yellow jacket could remember! [/*]

If she purchased the ticket there, which he says she did, she is required to show ID whether she's paying by cash or cc. That's Greyhound's policy. You don't have to show ID in addition to a ticket to board, you just need the ticket.

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

I was just going by the post. Do you think Christina walked in while they were talking, and then left before the murder? :shrug: [/*]

Would you just leave if you found your rival in your house with your husband?

:shrug:

strick10

03-21-2008, 04:53 PM

chance

03-21-2008, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

Pretty darn close.

But I've always thought that Christina killed Maria. From day 1.

I mean, a girl comes to your house supposedly to tell you she's leaving town and will be out of your life and your wife's life forever and you what....haul off and kill her?

I don't think so. [/*]

ITA. Sometimes I think CSL killed Maria.
Then flat out told CL go along with it or I will pin the murder on you! After all he was accused of raping her this would be easy to do.

I am wondering if what was said to the laywers that day was more along the lines of CL trying to get his own *** out of trouble and turned the tables on wifey. This may be the point that CL took the magic carpet ride. Or just hopped a bus.

So far this story is according to CSL and she certainly is not going to implicate herself.
fwiw this is moo
Chance

Jan Powell

03-21-2008, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

Pretty darn close.

But I've always thought that Christina killed Maria. From day 1.

I mean, a girl comes to your house supposedly to tell you she's leaving town and will be out of your life and your wife's life forever and you what....haul off and kill her?

I don't think so. [/*]

I have always thought it was CSL that used the blunt object on Maria.

I'm still processing in my mind the throat cut. Two sticking points for me; LE says it was not a suicide but I've never read or seen that LE says it wasn't an attempted suicide. Second, the autopsy can't or doesn't say it WAS post-mortem so that means it could be peri-mortem.

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 05:13 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

Well then LE must be pretty darn stupid to have charged the wrong person. :shrug: [/*]

Cesar was charged because he ran. The DA called the grand jury in just to hear that case and their ruling was on the barest of evidence. In fact, evidence of flight was about all they had when it came to the murder. The attempted use of the ATM was on film.

As it was believed he had fled to Mexico, he would have to have an indictment ready in case he was found there.

They did not have the completed autopsy, the results of the forensic testing, nor completed interviews with friends, neighbors, etc to present to the grand jury, nor anybody other than LE to testify before the grand jury. Not by a long shot.

IIRC, CS even stated that they had not yet received all the forensic testing results and this was just a couple of weeks ago.

It would not surprise me if when the grand jury reconvenes at its regular time this case is not presented to them again.

chance

03-21-2008, 05:14 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

It is not only Christina's word they are taking. There is DNA and other witnesses to clear Christina's alibi.

jmoo [/*]

What witnesses and DNA have cleared Christina?? I have not heard she has been cleared, just cooperating.

I don't think LE is stupid I think they are playing their cards close to the vest. Just because she has not been charged as of yet does not mean it wont happen.

moo
chance

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 05:16 PM

Originally posted by Jan Powell

I have always thought it was CSL that used the blunt object on Maria.

I'm still processing in my mind the throat cut. Two sticking points for me; LE says it was not a suicide but I've never read or seen that LE says it wasn't an attempted suicide. Second, the autopsy can't or doesn't say it WAS post-mortem so that means it could be peri-mortem. [/*]

What I don't understand is the totally contrasting injuries. On the one hand you have a blow to the head with such force that she was probably killed instantly; on the other hand you have a superficial wound to the neck which by itself would not have been fatal.

Sounds like two different people did each one.

But which two people?

:shrug:

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 05:18 PM

Originally posted by chance

ITA. Sometimes I think CSL killed Maria.
Then flat out told CL go along with it or I will pin the murder on you! After all he was accused of raping her this would be easy to do.

I am wondering if what was said to the laywers that day was more along the lines of CL trying to get his own *** out of trouble and turned the tables on wifey. This may be the point that CL took the magic carpet ride. Or just hopped a bus.

So far this story is according to CSL and she certainly is not going to implicate herself.
fwiw this is moo
Chance [/*]

Maybe Cesar talked too much to the attorney?

:shrug:

chance

03-21-2008, 05:20 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

Maybe Cesar talked too much to the attorney?

:shrug: [/*]

I kinda think so. I think he may have been trying to roll on Christina.

moo
chance

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 05:21 PM

Jan Powell

03-21-2008, 05:22 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

What I don't understand is the totally contrasting injuries. On the one hand you have a blow to the head with such force that she was probably killed instantly; on the other hand you have a superficial wound to the neck which by itself would not have been fatal.

Sounds like two different people did each one.

But which two people?

:shrug: [/*]

The contrasting injuries and sounds like two different people for me too.

I realize I'm way out there on an attempted suicide but this case is "bizarre" and like a "roller coaster ride" so I have to consider that.

chance

03-21-2008, 05:22 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

For starters, how about people at the party she attended as to what time she left? [/*]

So that will only matter when we have an exact time of death. That IMO does not clear her of anything.

moo
chance

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 05:22 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

For starters, how about people at the party she attended as to what time she left? [/*]

and i'll bet that as many people saw her leave at the time she claimed, can say she left earlier. you have a large group of people and who would have kept perfect track of her arrival and departure? I'll bet they are still sorting out that info. jmo

GentleBreeze

03-21-2008, 05:23 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

What I don't understand is the totally contrasting injuries. On the one hand you have a blow to the head with such force that she was probably killed instantly; on the other hand you have a superficial wound to the neck which by itself would not have been fatal.

Sounds like two different people did each one.

But which two people?

:shrug: [/*]

What makes no sense to me especially since it has now been learned that the ME can't say with any certainty that the knife wound happened after death.........what perpetrator throws down a knife that is right in their hand and then picks up a bludgeoning weapon that was just probably laying around?:shrug:

I just can't see a man doing a superficial cut when they could have sliced the throat deep all across the neck.:shrug:

imoo

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 05:23 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

For starters, how about people at the party she attended as to what time she left? [/*]

That doesn't mean anything if the murder happened after she got home.

That only means that she told the truth about what time she left.

:shrug:

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by chance

So that will only matter when we have an exact time of death. That IMO does not clear her of anything.

moo
chance [/*]

and the time frame for the death thus far has been conveniently set by mrs laurean herself. imo

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 05:25 PM

Originally posted by Jan Powell

The contrasting injuries and sounds like two different people for me too.

I realize I'm way out there on an attempted suicide but this case is "bizarre" and like a "roller coaster ride" so I have to consider that. [/*]

Well, I may be "out there" too because I think the knife wound was just to check and see if she was still alive.

In which case you're dealing with somebody that had never killed anybody before. And to our knowledge, that could be either Christina or Cesar.

chance

03-21-2008, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

CS also said if they had probable cause they would charge Christina. So as of the date he said that, they have nothing on her and she is checking out fine to them.

Cesar is not only charged because he ran. LE knows a lot more then us.

jmoo [/*]

I don't think that is exactly how it was worded. I don't think she has checked out just fine. All of the evedience is not in yet. Probable cause could be just around the corner.

moo
chance

chance

03-21-2008, 05:27 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

and the time frame for the death thus far has been conveniently set by mrs laurean herself. imo [/*]

Exactly.

Chance

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 05:28 PM

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 05:30 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

and the time frame for the death thus far has been conveniently set by mrs laurean herself. imo [/*]

Exactly.

Even the time frame for the "Great Escape" was set by Christina.

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 05:31 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

So why was he charged so fast? Did he confess? [/*]

i personally think that that was a rush deal to get the fbi involved. imo

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 05:32 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

Exactly.

Even the time frame for the "Great Escape" was set by Christina. [/*]

the star witness who saw nothing. jmo

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 05:33 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

What makes no sense to me especially since it has now been learned that the ME can't say with any certainty that the knife wound happened after death.........what perpetrator throws down a knife that is right in their hand and then picks up a bludgeoning weapon that was just probably laying around?:shrug:

I just can't see a man doing a superficial cut when they could have sliced the throat deep all across the neck.:shrug:

imoo [/*]

I can't see a man throwing baby clothes on top of a body in a pit either. Why bother? Why not just throw them in the trash (with her other missing items; the sweatshirt, her glasses....) Makes no sense.

GentleBreeze

03-21-2008, 05:33 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

the star witness who saw nothing. jmo [/*]

I always thought that was weird. She is a witness but according to her she saw nothing.

imoo

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 05:34 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

Pretty darn close.

But I've always thought that Christina killed Maria. From day 1.

I mean, a girl comes to your house supposedly to tell you she's leaving town and will be out of your life and your wife's life forever and you what....haul off and kill her?

I don't think so. [/*]

I agree with you that it makes no sense to kill ML if she is planning on taking off....

That is why I say either CL forced her to do all these things (my main theory), or she did them willingly - and the willingly has never made a lot of sense to me.

But I do think your theory is one possibility that explains a number of things with ML coming willingly to his house. And, if they were planning on leaving together, then it also makes no sense for CL to then turn around and kill ML just because the bus was full.

JMO

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 05:34 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

I can't see a man throwing baby clothes on top of a body in a pit either. Why bother? Why not just throw them in the trash (with her other missing items; the sweatshirt, her glasses....) Makes no sense. [/*]

i just can't get past the woman scorned being a better fit for the facts than a falsly accused man. jmo

chance

03-21-2008, 05:34 PM

chance

03-21-2008, 05:37 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

i just can't get past the woman scorned being a better fit for the facts than a falsly accused man. jmo [/*]

this is what I have been thinking all along.
moo
chance

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 05:38 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

He wasn't charged that fast. It sure wasn't the day of the murder.

I'm sorry, but I won't give this cold blooded murderer, Cesar, the benefit of the doubt in any way.

There is a manhunt out for him and a federal warrant issued.

JMO [/*]

Alleged cold blooded murderer.

And the indictment was handed down on 1/24, which is pretty darn fast for a murder case unless there are eyewitnesses or confessions.

Nobody's giving him the benefit of the doubt any more than you give it to Christina.

Neither one acted alone. In my opinion.

:D

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 05:39 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

Do you have a link to show he was falsely accused? Can you tell me what charges he was falsely accused of? [/*]

i need no link for my opinion. and that is the last i will discuss of it.

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 05:42 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

i just can't get past the woman scorned being a better fit for the facts than a falsly accused man. jmo [/*]

:D

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 05:44 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

i need no link for my opinion. and that is the last i will discuss of it. [/*]

Quick question, what would have happened if Maria just left town and didn't show up for any hearings?

GentleBreeze

03-21-2008, 05:45 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

i just can't get past the woman scorned being a better fit for the facts than a falsely accused man. jmo [/*]

It has always had that earmark to me. The throwing of the baby clothes into the pit sounds like something a very scorned ticked off woman would do.

I was watching the S. Nelson trial today and it reminded me somewhat of this case. When she killed the wife of her ex lover she told her "you have ruined my life." and brutally killed her execution style.

I think many women seethe and can be very dangerous when they think their lives have been affected by another woman and for some reason they tend to blame the woman rather than the man for their lives being ruined.

imoo

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 05:45 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

Quick question, what would have happened if Maria just left town and didn't show up for any hearings? [/*]

nothing. she would not be there to testify under oath. imo

GentleBreeze

03-21-2008, 05:48 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

i need no link for my opinion. and that is the last i will discuss of it. [/*]

Exactly and that is to be decided. This case is not even close to a trial where it will have to be proven BARD.

I think the defense attorneys will have much to work with.

imoo

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 05:50 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

Exactly and that is to be decided. This case is not even close to a trial where it will have to be proven BARD.

I think the defense attorneys will have much to work with.

imoo [/*]

at the very least, he should go to jail for being a snake. keeping his pants on would have eliminated a lot of his troubles, imo

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 05:51 PM

So Cryme... the one sticking point I have with your theory is why didn't CL and ML just go to some motel on Dec 14 when they found out the bus was full? Or even drive to Raleigh-Durham and get a motel?

I wonder if LE has checked the bus roster for Dec 14 to see if any of CL's aliases appear on there....

CANDYKISSES

03-21-2008, 05:55 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

I can't see a man throwing baby clothes on top of a body in a pit either. Why bother? Why not just throw them in the trash (with her other missing items; the sweatshirt, her glasses....) Makes no sense. [/*]

Hey Peeps, HAPPY EASTER to ONE AND ALL! :rose:

You bet Cryme, not something that looks like the work of a man IMO. Every male and female within my family circle after reading the report, just looks up and starts asking about Christina.

Not one, man or woman is even the slightest bit inclined to believe the story of Christina Laurean and all feel the baby outfit and the burial where she could keep an eye out are telling signs of a woman in control.

ALL JMO based on several months of reading now. I hope Cesar is caught and all parties who were involved answer up to the fullest extent of the law.

:patriot:

GentleBreeze

03-21-2008, 05:55 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

at the very least, he should go to jail for being a snake. keeping his pants on would have eliminated a lot of his troubles, imo [/*]

I do think he helped CSL to cover it up and is guilty of the other fraud charges but I am not so sure it is such a slam dunk on the murder charge.

A good lawyer could even swing it to a 2nd degree happening during a heat of passion.

Many possibilities imo.

imoo

CANDYKISSES

03-21-2008, 05:58 PM

Originally posted by chance

What witnesses and DNA have cleared Christina?? I have not heard she has been cleared, just cooperating.

I don't think LE is stupid I think they are playing their cards close to the vest. Just because she has not been charged as of yet does not mean it wont happen.

moo
chance [/*]

Hey Chance, didn't RS say they are still waiting on the forensics in this case?

Oh I think Christina is definitely on the radar for OCSD. ;)

JMOOC.

The numbers are staggering when you look at reader comments at JDN with reference to those believing she is involved. Time will tell, if Cesar is still alive to talk. Once again, JMO.:patriot:

Jan Powell

03-21-2008, 06:00 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

i personally think that that was a rush deal to get the fbi involved. imo [/*]

I do too.

And for DOJ to get Interpol and the Mexican government involved required some specific charges.

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 06:00 PM

Originally posted by Jan Powell

I do too.

And for DOJ to get Interpol and the Mexican government involved required some specific charges. [/*]

exactly.

SavannahStar

03-21-2008, 06:02 PM

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES

The numbers are staggering when you look at reader comments at JDN with reference to those believing she is involved.

*snipped*

[/*]

This seems oft repeated on here, Candy, but truthfully I don't think it means much at all. I just go back to LE knowing A LOT more than we do re Christina.

And if I had the time and inclination I bet I could google and find many, many cases where the public was "just sure" that someone had done the deed, and it turned out to be wrong.

IMO.

GentleBreeze

03-21-2008, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES

Hey Peeps, HAPPY EASTER to ONE AND ALL! :rose:

You bet Cryme, not something that looks like the work of a man IMO. Every male and female within my family circle after reading the report, just looks up and starts asking about Christina.

Not one, man or woman is even the slightest bit inclined to believe the story of Christina Laurean and all feel the baby outfit and the burial where she could keep an eye out are telling signs of a woman in control.

ALL JMO based on several months of reading now. I hope Cesar is caught and all parties who were involved answer up to the fullest extent of the law.

:patriot: [/*]

Same to you Ms. Candy!

You are like me. There are many still mentioning this case where I live and every darn one of them thinks Christina did it. They say they think she is going to get away with it because they had almost a month to erase evidence that would connect her and because he ran of course the police are going to think he is the perp.

I don't think I have ever discussed a case here where so many have concentrated on the wife's involvement when they have not been arrested. Quite unusual and it is even unusual for me but everything just seems to point to her as much or more than it does CL.

moo

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 06:04 PM

Originally posted by old_lady
Does anyone who thinks Christina did the murder, she stripped Maria from the waist down like her body was found? If Cesar was helping Christina, does anyone think Christina would have allowed that? [/*]

we have no evidence that her clothes were removed by anyone. the fire may have reduced them to ashes. imo

chance

03-21-2008, 06:06 PM

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES

Hey Chance, didn't RS say they are still waiting on the forensics in this case?

Oh I think Christina is definitely on the radar for OCSD. ;)

JMOOC.

The numbers are staggering when you look at reader comments at JDN with reference to those believing she is involved. Time will tell, if Cesar is still alive to talk. Once again, JMO.:patriot: [/*]

yes he did thats why I don't think it is all that telling that Christina has not been charged yet. I just may part of their stratagey. Time will tell.

moo
chance

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 06:07 PM

Originally posted by Sami

Another post with which I agree.

We're on a roll today, MW. :seeya: [/*]:seeya: now don't go jinxing it!

Jan Powell

03-21-2008, 06:10 PM

Originally posted by old_lady
Does anyone who thinks Christina did the murder, think she stripped Maria from the waist down like her body was found? If Cesar was helping Christina, does anyone think Christina would have allowed that? [/*]

She had NO clothes on. I think part of that happened when she was taken to the hospital prior to being taken for the autopsy and they were laid on top of her and part of the clothes are pieces and ashes that were in a bag.

I read INTO the autopsy report that she came from her grave that way. I'm not sure what I originally read into it was now accurate.

CANDYKISSES

03-21-2008, 06:12 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

we have no evidence that her clothes were removed by anyone. the fire may have reduced them to ashes. imo [/*]

Exactly MW, there are so many possibilities depending on what their relationship was at the time.

We don't know if Maria was running from Mary because she was going to be forced to give the baby up or whether Cesar was helping her to get somewhere she could stay with the baby and Christina got wind of it. We don't know if Maria just called Cesar that day after her "stern conversation" with Mary and was so angry she was out of control as he stated and Christina came home and was livid herself after standing around his Christmas party all afternoon.

I CAN NOT WAIT for THE COMMUNICATIONS to come to light in this case. I go back to the CLJ girls talking about his wife calling him so many times when he was at some kind of event....

I say if she wasn't checking on good ole Cesar, it was because there was a plan.

If she was checking on him left and right, there was no plan and when Christina came home and found Maria in her home clothed or not, she was going to be history.

ALL NOTHING MORE THAN MY OPINION. :patriot:

AlohaRainbow

03-21-2008, 06:15 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

if he indeed is the one who wrote the letter of convenience...oops, i mean confession. jmo [/*]

:eek: you've been reading my mind!

:D

caejde

03-21-2008, 06:17 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

we have no evidence that her clothes were removed by anyone. the fire may have reduced them to ashes. imo [/*]

IA...seeing as her legs were burnt off and badly burned, it is all possible there was nothing left-and besides we don't know what type of material it was. Depending on the material it very well could have burnt to ashes. Shoes are not big deal. Those very well could be the shoe that was found during the GVS show for all we know. And they could have come off while dragging her.

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 06:21 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

Where are the clothes from the waist down listed? [/*]

they could very well be in the soil and ash surrounding the body, but not recognizable as clothing at this point. imo

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 06:21 PM

Originally posted by old_lady
Does anyone who thinks Christina did the murder, think she stripped Maria from the waist down like her body was found? If Cesar was helping Christina, does anyone think Christina would have allowed that? [/*]

I am not set one way or the other as to who killed ML, although I lean toward it being CL.

If, in fact, her lower clothing was removed, then I think there are two possibilities: either CL raped her pre or post-mortem, or CSL caught them having sex.

JMO

donna

03-21-2008, 06:23 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

Same to you Ms. Candy!

You are like me. There are many still mentioning this case where I live and every darn one of them thinks Christina did it. They say they think she is going to get away with it because they had almost a month to erase evidence that would connect her and because he ran of course the police are going to think he is the perp.

I don't think I have ever discussed a case here where so many have concentrated on the wife's involvement when they have not been arrested. Quite unusual and it is even unusual for me but everything just seems to point to her as much or more than it does CL.

moo [/*]

:rose: ... Wonder, safe, and peaceful Easter weekend wished for all!

Hi, GB! Hope your daughter is doing better!

People should read Captain Sutherland's remark in the comments section of the Jacksonville newspaper at the bottom of the autopsy article!

There is absolutely no one I have talked to about Maria and Gabriel's murders that think Christina is totally innocent. IMO, she either participated in the murders or participated in the coverup! That is my opinion, and I will not be swayed from it.

LE has not 'cleared' Christina of anything. LE is not closed minded, and have never said that Christina would never be charged with anything.

donna

03-21-2008, 06:25 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

we have no evidence that her clothes were removed by anyone. the fire may have reduced them to ashes. imo [/*]

Exactly!

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 06:26 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

I am not set one way or the other as to who killed ML, although I lean toward it being CL.

If, in fact, her lower clothing was removed, then I think there are two possibilities: either CL raped her pre or post-mortem, or CSL caught them having sex.

JMO [/*]

I'm not believing that he ever raped her. Not in March, not in April and certainly not in December.

I will however have to say that the sex part is somewhat believeable (but we only have the LJU site *rumors* that they went to a motel together shortly before the time of her death).

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 06:28 PM

Jan Powell

03-21-2008, 06:28 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

Where are the clothes from the waist down listed? [/*]

I think they were melted or were charred ashes and it would be my guess in an evidence bag.

I no longer believe she was stripped of her clothing before she was buried, I did wonder about it when I first read the autopsy though.

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 06:29 PM

Originally posted by Jan Powell

She had NO clothes on. I think part of that happened when she was taken to the hospital prior to being taken for the autopsy and they were laid on top of her and part of the clothes are pieces and ashes that were in a bag.

I read INTO the autopsy report that she came from her grave that way. I'm not sure what I originally read into it was now accurate. [/*]

I think the only time they remove clothing from someone is for lifesaving measures only. I think once a body is found, it is taken AS FOUND.

But, jmo.

chance

03-21-2008, 06:29 PM

CANDYKISSES

03-21-2008, 06:29 PM

Originally posted by donna

:rose: ... Wonder, safe, and peaceful Easter weekend wished for all!

Hi, GB! Hope your daughter is doing better!

People should read Captain Sutherland's remark in the comments section of the Jacksonville newspaper at the bottom of the autopsy article!

There is absolutely no one I have talked to about Maria and Gabriel's murders that think Christina is totally innocent. IMO, she either participated in the murders or participated in the coverup! That is my opinion, and I will not be swayed from it.

LE has not 'cleared' Christina of anything. LE is not closed minded, and have never said that Christina would never be charged with anything. [/*]

Yes Donna, I think that CLEARED word is very telling in their thoughts too. Again, JMO and yes I was motivated to believe there may be more to come after the comments on JDN, but like everything in life, things move slowly and you can't charge people on what your intuition and common sense are telling you, it requires evidence to support a charge.

ALL JMO. :patriot:

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 06:30 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

nothing. she would not be there to testify under oath. imo [/*]

Okay, then what would have happened to any pending charges against Cesar?

Assuming she never came back to town or was ever heard from again (but not dead).?

Cardinal

03-21-2008, 06:31 PM

Evening, everyone. :seeya: Happy Easter Weekend to you all.

I am reeeeally behind on this board, so please forgive me if I say something stupid!

So are there still some people who are not convinced Christina had a part in the murder/coverup?

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 06:32 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

Okay, then what would have happened to any pending charges against Cesar?

Assuming she never came back to town or was ever heard from again (but not dead).? [/*]

nothing, i would imagine. no dna, no child support, no affair, no charges. he would live happily ever after with the woman of his dreams, imo.

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 06:32 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

How did they burn down to ashes and not burn her other hip as well? [/*]

Good question!

(Although I believe you and I have different opinions as to if she was unclothed from the waist down, why she was.) ;)

donna

03-21-2008, 06:33 PM

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES

Yes Donna, I think that CLEARED word is very telling in their thoughts too. Again, JMO and yes I was motivated to believe there may be more to come after the comments on JDN, but like everything in life, things move slowly and you can't charge people on what your intuition and common sense are telling you, it requires evidence to support a charge.

ALL JMO. :patriot: [/*]

Hi, CANDYKISSES!

ITA!!!!!!

:patriot:

SavannahStar

03-21-2008, 06:33 PM

Originally posted by Cardinal
Evening, everyone. :seeya: Happy Easter Weekend to you all.

I am reeeeally behind on this board, so please forgive me if I say something stupid!

So are there still some people who are not convinced Christina had a part in the murder/coverup? [/*]

Yep. Me. And Old Lady. I think we're the only two. :lol:

Cardinal

03-21-2008, 06:34 PM

Originally posted by SavannahStar

Yep. Me. And Old Lady. I think we're the only two. :lol: [/*]

Hi SS :seeya: That's fine. Honestly, I hope you're right, for the daughter's sake.

It just stretches the limits of credulity for me. :)

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 06:35 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

nothing, i would imagine. no dna, no child support, no affair, no charges. he would live happily ever after with the woman of his dreams, imo. [/*]

Then IF she went to his house to tell him she was leaving, does it make sense that all this would go away if she went away and he decides to kill her (leaving evidence and a body in his backyard) rather than just LET HER LEAVE?

:shrug:

donna

03-21-2008, 06:35 PM

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

Then IF she went to his house to tell him she was leaving, does it make sense that all this would go away if she went away and he decides to kill her (leaving evidence and a body in his backyard) rather than just LET HER LEAVE?

:shrug: [/*]

that would be my guess. but that would have made for much more boring notes to write. imo

Cardinal

03-21-2008, 06:38 PM

Originally posted by Sami

Oh, I so much agree with this post, Cardinal. Especially the part about the daughter. [/*]

Hi Sami and Donna :seeya:

For me, the daughter is the final victim. No matter how this turns out, her life will be so much less than she's entitled to.

JMO

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 06:38 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

that would be my guess. but that would have made for much more boring notes to write. imo [/*]

Oh yeah, I forgot about the fledgling John Grisham.

:D

(Or would that be Danielle Steele?)

Cardinal

03-21-2008, 06:39 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

Oh yeah, I forgot about the fledgling John Grisham.

:D

(Or would that be Danielle Steele?) [/*]

I was thinking more of a science fiction writer. :D

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 06:41 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

Oh yeah, I forgot about the fledgling John Grisham.

:D

(Or would that be Danielle Steele?) [/*]

the first red flag for me was the part where csl claimed they only discussed the rape allegation every few months...and it all went downhill from there.

donna

03-21-2008, 06:42 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

nothing, i would imagine. no dna, no child support, no affair, no charges. he would live happily ever after with the woman of his dreams, imo. [/*]

Hi, MW5!

Maria was very strong minded! Would Maria never contacted CAL again if she left? CAL would be living under a cloud that could erupt into a heck of a thunderstorm at any moment.

If Gabriel were CAL's baby (and I think he was), then his problems would not be over by long shot if Maria were to contact him or even the MRS. that she had CAL's baby!

If CAL, CSL, or BOTH were to kill Maria instead of just letting her leave the area, both Maria and the baby would no longer be a problem to him/them unless their bodies were found and DNA along with evidence found!

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 06:43 PM

Cardinal

03-21-2008, 06:43 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

the first red flag for me was the part where csl claimed they only discussed the rape allegation every few months...and it all went downhill from there. [/*]

Hi, MW :seeya: That one's in my top 5, but the first one for me was her "waking up the next moring". I still can't believe she could sleep that night.

JMO

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 06:43 PM

Originally posted by donna

Hi, MW5!

Maria was very strong minded! Would Maria never contacted CAL again if she left? CAL would be living under a cloud that could erupt into a heck of a thunderstorm at any moment.

If Gabriel were CAL's baby (and I think he was), then his problems would not be over by long shot if Maria were to contact him or even the MRS. that she had CAL's baby!

If CAL, CSL, or BOTH were to kill Maria instead of just letting her leave the area, both Maria and the baby would no longer be a problem to him/them unless their bodies were found and DNA along with evidence found! [/*]

contacting them would lead to her being charged with being ua, imo

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 06:45 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

I think Christina got yelled at and slapped whenever she brought it up. jmo [/*]

nah, she was no wilting flower, imo. i think she was quite the opposite.

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 06:45 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

I think Christina got yelled at and slapped whenever she brought it up. jmo [/*]

That may well be a part of her story.

Now.

But somehow I don't think Christina would take that lying down.

No sireee Bob.

:D

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 06:46 PM

Originally posted by Cardinal

Hi, MW :seeya: That one's in my top 5, but the first one for me was her "waking up the next moring". I still can't believe she could sleep that night.

JMO [/*]

ita, it is beyond bizarre.

Cardinal

03-21-2008, 06:46 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

nah, she was no wilting flower, imo. i think she was quite the opposite. [/*]

ITA. I think if anyone were being yelled at/slapped in that relationship, it was Cesar.

CANDYKISSES

03-21-2008, 06:46 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

I'm not believing that he ever raped her. Not in March, not in April and certainly not in December.

I will however have to say that the sex part is somewhat believeable (but we only have the LJU site *rumors* that they went to a motel together shortly before the time of her death). [/*]

I don't believe he raped her while she was alive and definitely not post-mortem IMO. There is no evidence to support a claim of rape IMO and that's why the USMC couldn't charge him if you ask me. My guess is that they interviewed more than one or two who knew of the relationship as alleged by Lisa and Mrs. Renner, only to find the same issues many of us had. Remember, IIRC the USMC had to let her know the first encounter she included in the allegations was consensual. I believe they bent over backwards to help her and were met with inconsistencies throughout, especially if Uncle Peter was correct about her trying to drop out the week before. JMO tho.

I think she liked the guy she told her mother was popular and it all backfired and turned into a tragedy.

JMO:(

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 06:47 PM

Originally posted by Cardinal

ITA. I think if anyone were being yelled at/slapped in that relationship, it was Cesar. [/*]

and he would have deserved it for cheating, imo.

donna

03-21-2008, 06:48 PM

Originally posted by Cardinal

Hi Sami and Donna :seeya:

For me, the daughter is the final victim. No matter how this turns out, her life will be so much less than she's entitled to.

JMO [/*]

Yes, you are so right, Cardinal!

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 06:48 PM

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES

I don't believe he raped her while she was alive and definitely not post-mortem IMO. There is no evidence to support a claim of rape IMO and that's why the USMC couldn't charge him if you ask me. My guess is that they interviewed more than one or two who knew of the relationship as alleged by Lisa and Mrs. Renner, only to find the same issues many of us had. Remember, IIRC the USMC had to let her know the first encounter she included in the allegations was consensual. I believe they bent over backwards to help her and were met with inconsistencies throughout, especially if Uncle Peter was correct about her trying to drop out the week before. JMO tho.

I think she liked the guy she told her mother was popular and it all backfired and turned into a tragedy.

JMO:( [/*]

ITA

Then you have her sister who had just had a baby out of wedlock and we have no idea what mom's reaction was to that - especially since she (the sister) was still in high school at the time.

CANDYKISSES

03-21-2008, 06:49 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

the first red flag for me was the part where csl claimed they only discussed the rape allegation every few months...and it all went downhill from there. [/*]

;) Oh yes, you believe that one right? I couldn't tell that one with a straight face if my life depended on it.

Sure you only talked about it every couple of months, but yet she was driven to go ALLEGEDLY CONFRONT Maria and call her a filthy name?????

No, I don't think so. JMO.:(

Cardinal

03-21-2008, 06:49 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

and he would have deserved it for cheating, imo. [/*]

I heard that.

And in fact, I think that's a really huge dynamic in how this played out. That's the main reason I think that part of the "story" was because "he owed her."

baywench

03-21-2008, 06:49 PM

Originally posted by nelkirk

SB is an elected official and as such the only ones to "reprimand" him would be the DA and the voters

Ciccarelli would be "reprimanded" by the Department of the US Navy his employer.

It is obvious that he was unprepared for any type of interview...he was not the investigator in the Lauterbach case, that was done by one of his staff.. but he should have at least read the case file before he went public Or he could have just said "I do not know." [/*]

ITA nelkirk. I think both he and SB were completely blindsided when it went from they thought she had run away (I remember SB saying "there might be some illness here" I can't remember if he said mental illness and then bam it's a murder, burial etc. They should have not caved into media pressure and taken some time to get their facts together. JMO

AlohaRainbow

03-21-2008, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by alter ego
so....all those reports stating 'Heath Ledger's initial autopsy results are inconclusive' were talking aobut something that doesn't exist :confused:

ut oh [/*]
"initial report (or initial results) of the autopsy" would probably be the more correct way ot word it in most cases (since most cases don't involve a second autopsy).

the initial report means it's the first report - it's not the final report. (final reports for autopsies would include toxicology and microscopic exam of tissues, as well as any specialty consults, such as forensic neurology microscopic exam if there is a question about the brain - ref anna nicole smith's autopsy, where the final report wasn't ready until toxicology and microscopic exams by infectious disease and neurology specialists-among others- were completed).

almost every medical examiner's office in the country has investigators who gather information for the medical examiner, including such activities as interviewing family members of the deceased, reviewing medical records, gathering info from le, etc. ... and whose findings are included in an "investigative report" that becomes part of the official record.

if you watch "dr g-medical examiner", she relies heavily on the info gathered by her investigators.

an interesting book about the "behind the scenes" activities of a medical investigator with the ny city's medical examiner's office is "dead center" by medicolegal examiner shiya ribowsky (who was with the ny city me office on 9/11/01).

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

and he would have deserved it for cheating, imo. [/*]

Oh no doubt. He would have been kicked to the curb right off the bat.

None of this "updating me every couple of months". Uh huh, no way, no how. He would be on his own.

:seeya: "Don't let the door hit ya on your way out"...

GentleBreeze

03-21-2008, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

I think Christina got yelled at and slapped whenever she brought it up. jmo [/*]

I don't. I bet she is no wilting little wallflower. Sure didn't bother her to walk right up to Maria and confront her. It wouldn't surprise me it it wasn't one of her buds who keyed the car and hit Maria in the face.

Any woman that can come in and swoop up a guy that is only 18 and she was 22 isn't some downtrodden meek woman imo.

imoo

baywench

03-21-2008, 06:53 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

I think Christina got yelled at and slapped whenever she brought it up. jmo [/*]

What???? THere is absolutely NO evidence that Christinia was abused. Not everyone woman is a victim...I'm not and I raised three that I know aren't so it's not JMO it's a fact.

Cardinal

03-21-2008, 06:53 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

Oh please, Cesar was the dominate controlling one of that twosome. I believe a rapist also. imo [/*]

I know I've missed a lot - do we have some evidence of that? If not, speculation either way is just as valid.

GentleBreeze

03-21-2008, 06:55 PM

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES

;) Oh yes, you believe that one right? I couldn't tell that one with a straight face if my life depended on it.

Sure you only talked about it every couple of months, but yet she was driven to go ALLEGEDLY CONFRONT Maria and call her a filthy name?????

No, I don't think so. JMO.:( [/*]

Maybe every couple of hours.:tongue:

imo

CANDYKISSES

03-21-2008, 06:55 PM

Originally posted by Cardinal

ITA. I think if anyone were being yelled at/slapped in that relationship, it was Cesar. [/*]

Happy Easter Cardinal,

I have to agree with you there. What woman do you know that would go to sleep beside her man knowing he has a woman buried out back? :chicken:

JMO but no way in this life....unless I knew I was in control.

(really, just no freakin way period.) :eek:

Jan Powell

03-21-2008, 06:55 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

I think the only time they remove clothing from someone is for lifesaving measures only. I think once a body is found, it is taken AS FOUND.

But, jmo. [/*]

You may be right for some locations. My experience could be out of the norm, it was finally ruled an accidental overdose.

From my one and only (thank you God) personal experience the clothes were cut off and removed from an obviously dead body (rigor had begun) at the hospital. He was transported there from home and his clothes were bagged at the hospital and he then was transported to another county for autopsy.
Could be because in TX with a supposedly suspicious death; EMS waits with the body and the person is declared by a Justice of the Peace not a person in the medical field. The JP directs the process and makes the ruling on the death certificate.

baywench

03-21-2008, 06:56 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

Me definitely. I never believed she was from the start. I will never believe she was unless she is charged. jmo [/*]

But Cesar was never charged with rape and you believe he is a rapist? An apparently an abusive husband? JMO

GentleBreeze

03-21-2008, 06:57 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

Oh please, Cesar was the dominate controlling one of that twosome. I believe a rapist also. imo [/*]

What? When did they release that?

All we heard is Christina was the jealous type and people that worked with Laurean said he was friendly and easy going.:shrug:

imoo

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 06:57 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

Oh please, Cesar was the dominate controlling one of that twosome. I believe a rapist also. imo [/*]

as far as control, who's the one controlling the whole murder/escape story? if he killed over a rape accusation, why not kill the person he confessed to? he could evade one as well as the other. take the baby and go. he obviously didn't spare christina out of love, or he would have never cheated on her. imo, of course

Cardinal

03-21-2008, 06:57 PM

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES

Happy Easter Cardinal,

I have to agree with you there. What woman do you know that would go to sleep beside her man knowing he has a woman buried out back?

JMO but no way in this life....unless I knew I was in control.

(really, just no freakin way period.) :eek: [/*]

Happy Easter, CK :seeya:

Not me, that's for sure. In fact, if I start even thinking along those lines, the rug theory gets more believable. :D

bkwits

03-21-2008, 06:58 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

Oh please, Cesar was the dominate controlling one of that twosome. I believe a rapist also. imo [/*]

So do I. JMO

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 06:58 PM

Originally posted by baywench

But Cesar was never charged with rape and you believe he is a rapist? An apparently an abusive husband? JMO [/*]

I'm just glad that members of law enforcement have more sense than that. they like evidence. jmo

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 06:58 PM

Originally posted by Cardinal

Happy Easter, CK :seeya:

Not me, that's for sure. In fact, if I start even thinking along those lines, the rug theory gets more believable. :D [/*]

I like it when you talk like that.

:biggrin:

baywench

03-21-2008, 07:00 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

I can REALLY believe you would do just that:D

Christina is not you though. Cesar told her Maria lied about the rape and then told her the baby could not be his.

Maybe she only asked him every couple of months because she believed and trusted him :shrug: [/*]

I think however Christina was involved (and I believe she was defintely involved) she hated Maria and wasn't shedding any tears over her death one way or the other IMO

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 07:01 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

I like it when you talk like that.

:biggrin: [/*]

i'll bet you even have rugs on your walls and ceilings. (insert laughting santa here)

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 07:03 PM

CANDYKISSES

03-21-2008, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

ITA

Then you have her sister who had just had a baby out of wedlock and we have no idea what mom's reaction was to that - especially since she (the sister) was still in high school at the time. [/*]

And it was just one year ago March 17th, that she was posting about how excited she was to be an aunt.

I find it very sad if this was a young woman reaching out for attention and love. There are several reasons I can think of as to why Maria would make an allegation of rape but mostly I think it was fearing pregnancy once she knew he was married and hoping at the same time. I believe she was a confused young woman. I hope the time comes when we know what really happened with Cesar and Maria that ended in such a horrible tragedy. :(

ALL JMO.:(

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

Now that you mention that, I think Christina was afraid of him after he told her the story he had for her. That's why she went to the police after the thread was gone. jmo [/*]

she wasn't so afraid that she tried to convince him to turn himself in rather than run, to prevent chaos for the family (according to her parents)? if she were afraid, she would have left that house the second he was asleep. and she would have gone to the police, not a former snco. she could have taken the baby to the store and used her cell phone to call the police. she is such a frail and abused woman, after a dead body is dug up from her yard, she stays in jacksonville? doesn't go home to her family? jmo.

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 07:05 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

i'll bet you even have rugs on your walls and ceilings. (insert laughting santa here) [/*]

Does mirrors on the ceiling count?

:eek:

GentleBreeze

03-21-2008, 07:06 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

as far as control, who's the one controlling the whole murder/escape story? if he killed over a rape accusation, why not kill the person he confessed to? he could evade one as well as the other. take the baby and go. he obviously didn't spare christina out of love, or he would have never cheated on her. imo, of course [/*]

Right. I don't think she feared him at all. I don't think she would have ever reported him at all if she didn't have the notes to turnover.

IF he is the one who really did this I am sure she thinks he did it for her because Maria had ruined their lives (so they thought).

imoo

Cardinal

03-21-2008, 07:06 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

Does mirrors on the ceiling count?

:eek: [/*]

:lol: That will get us shut down fast!

chance

03-21-2008, 07:07 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

Wanna buy a beach house in Nebraska?

:biggrin: [/*]

Now thats funny right thar!!!

I trust and love my hubby, but if he were accused of rape. You can bet your sweet bippy, It would not be an every other month disscussion.

moo
chance

alter ego

03-21-2008, 07:08 PM

Originally posted by baywench

I think however Christina was involved (and I believe she was defintely involved) she hated Maria and wasn't shedding any tears over her death one way or the other IMO [/*]I think she's involved in this up to her eyeballs.

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 07:08 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

Right. I don't think she feared him at all. I don't think she would have ever reported him at all if she didn't have the notes to turnover.

IF he is the one who really did this I am sure she thinks he did it for her because Maria had ruined their lives (so they thought).

imoo [/*]

thank goodness for those notes of absolution. why, without them, someone might think she was involved, or at least had knowledge of the event. jmo

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 07:08 PM

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 07:09 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

thank goodness for those notes of absolution. why, without them, someone might think she was involved, or at least had knowledge of the event. jmo [/*]

:lol:

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 07:09 PM

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 07:10 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

Only if there is no photobucket link. :D [/*]

And if I don't mention any names that haven't already been in the media.

CANDYKISSES

03-21-2008, 07:11 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

What? When did they release that?

All we heard is Christina was the jealous type and people that worked with Laurean said he was friendly and easy going.:shrug:

imoo [/*]

Yes chatting about diapers and sippy cups. Even Maria said he was popular. :o

I think he was controlled by Christina myself thus the letters of THE WORLD ACCORDING TO CHRISTINA. ;) My guess is that Cesar underestimated the women he was daring to cross and found himself caught up in something beyond anything he ever knew. JMO tho.

His payment for walking outside the line with Maria....disappear and never come back unless he wants the death penalty from my POV.

I believe Christina stood right over top of him dictating the get outta jail letters.

ALL JMO.

Cardinal

03-21-2008, 07:11 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

ITA...i would start every sentence with "now about those rape allegations...." [/*]

I'm totally with both of you, and it makes me think.... Can you imagine the pressure cooker she was after months of that?

GentleBreeze

03-21-2008, 07:12 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

My imo shows that is my opinion and speculation like everyone does here.

Yes, I think he is.

jmoo [/*]

Why do you think that? From what we have heard he has no infractions against him for anything......not even a parking ticket that we know of....... There is nothing in his history that shows he was violent or abusive before this occurred. I am sure if he was guilty of DV in the past then we would have known that a long time ago.

I don't even think he had other affairs with other women because if he had then the media would have found them when they were on this case hot and heavy for a month.

imoo

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 07:12 PM

Originally posted by alter ego
I think she's involved in this up to her eyeballs. [/*]

shucks, she's involved up to MY eyeballs (i'm taller than her). le has offered nothing concrete absolving her. and given the local vibe on her, i'm sure they would if they had any or believed her. it wouldn't hurt cl's charges to completely clear her and explain how they know that to be true. jmo

baywench

03-21-2008, 07:14 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

I'll trade you the Brooklyn Bridge and a rug for it.:D [/*]

Seriously though, I think you insult CSL much more by believing she has no control over herself, her life or her husband. She is just a simpering victim who lives in terror and raises her child in this environment? On top of that she is apparently deaf, dumb and blind? And the most understanding woman in the world and the most gullible about her husband's infidelity. That has got to be the most pathetic woman in the world. I'd rather think she was covering for her husband....at least it gives her some shred of dignity. JMO

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 07:14 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

Now you've got it.:D About time.:lol: [/*]

and i will bet every square foot of cryme's rug collection that she either wrote the notes, or had someone else write them (not cl). :tongue:

Cardinal

03-21-2008, 07:15 PM

Originally posted by baywench

Seriously though, I think you insult CSL much more by believing she has no control over herself, her life or her husband. She is just a simpering victim who lives in terror and raises her child in this environment? On top of that she is apparently deaf, dumb and blind? And the most understanding woman in the world and the most gullible about her husband's infidelity. That has got to be the most pathetic woman in the world. I'd rather think she was covering for her husband....at least it gives her some shred of dignity. JMO [/*]

Wonderful post, baywench, thank you.

GentleBreeze

03-21-2008, 07:15 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

thank goodness for those notes of absolution. why, without them, someone might think she was involved, or at least had knowledge of the event. jmo [/*]

:D yep...........I think they were stay out of jail cards that he left behind for wifey poo.

imoo

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 07:16 PM

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 07:17 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

and i will bet every square foot of cryme's rug collection that she either wrote the notes, or had someone else write them (not cl). :tongue: [/*]

Now you're talkin'!

crymeariver2006

03-21-2008, 07:18 PM

Gotta go out and get Easter stuff for the fam.

Later, gators!

:seeya:

Cardinal

03-21-2008, 07:19 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006
Gotta go out and get Easter stuff for the fam.

Later, gators!

:seeya: [/*]

Bye Cryme. Happy Easter! :seeya:

(Pssst........I really like those Cadbury eggs) :D

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 07:19 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006
Gotta go out and get Easter stuff for the fam.

Later, gators!

:seeya: [/*]

dont forget to check the ceiling to make sure your lipstick still looks fresh!:no:

GentleBreeze

03-21-2008, 07:21 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

All that means is he never got caught at anything or no one complained of anything. He skated is what that shows. There is a first time for everything and he was still young. jmo [/*]

How does that mean that?:confused:

You are trying to find him guilty on non evidence....not even a suspicion. No one has said he had any other extra marital affairs.

And being young would make him get caught easier than an old pro who had cheated for years imo.

He skated? What does that mean?

imoo

CANDYKISSES

03-21-2008, 07:22 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

and i will bet every square foot of cryme's rug collection that she either wrote the notes, or had someone else write them (not cl). :tongue: [/*]

WOW MW, I hadn't thought about someone else writing for her, errr, I mean HIM. ;)

I think if she was woman enough to stay the night after knowing she has her husband's ex-lover buried out back, she is woman enough to CONTROL HIM and knew it. JMO tho.

I wonder where the communications were tracked to where Cesar was reporting in to the office and if they were by text those last few days? :eek: I think that might tell a few things too, but then again, Christina could have been sending that in too if Cesar had left in the carpet. (Just Cryme's thought process pecking away at my brain.)

jmo

GentleBreeze

03-21-2008, 07:27 PM

Originally posted by chance

Now thats funny right thar!!!

I trust and love my hubby, but if he were accused of rape. You can bet your sweet bippy, It would not be an every other month discussion.

moo
chance [/*]

I love mine dearly and trust him explicitly but I tell ya if he was accused of rape and the woman was supposed to be pregnant with his child I would have a micro chip embedded in him so I could track him every minute of the day.:biggrin:

imo

Cardinal

03-21-2008, 07:31 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

I love mine dearly and trust him explicitly but I tell ya if he was accused of rape and the woman was supposed to be pregnant with his child I would have a micro chip embedded in him so I could track him every minute of the day.:biggrin:

imo [/*]

:beer: You and me both!

baywench

03-21-2008, 07:31 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

It means he's smart.;) [/*]

Yes he is absolutely brilliant. Not everyone would of thought of burying the body in his own backyard. Genius! IMO

henry

03-21-2008, 07:36 PM

okay . . . the tag team of henry and nuttintodo are going into action again :) . . . if you have any pictures, photos, etc. that you have and would like to add to the "photobucket' . . . please send me a pm and i'll provide you with further instruction . . . thanks

Cardinal

03-21-2008, 07:42 PM

A little O/T, but I read this the other day, and it reminded me of SB's clothes hanger and the commentary it received here:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/03/14/csi.manson.ap/index.html#cnnSTCText

"Using a thin, 3-foot long probe, Vass tested the soil in the area. It slid into the ground without much effort.

"Undisturbed soil isn't this easy to probe," he said."

:biggrin:

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 07:43 PM

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES

WOW MW, I hadn't thought about someone else writing for her, errr, I mean HIM. ;)

I think if she was woman enough to stay the night after knowing she has her husband's ex-lover buried out back, she is woman enough to CONTROL HIM and knew it. JMO tho.

I wonder where the communications were tracked to where Cesar was reporting in to the office and if they were by text those last few days? :eek: I think that might tell a few things too, but then again, Christina could have been sending that in too if Cesar had left in the carpet. (Just Cryme's thought process pecking away at my brain.)

jmo [/*]

That is assuming she knew ML was buried out back - supposedly CL told CSL that ML was buried in the woods nearby.

But I agree, the communications evidence will tell a story in itself.

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 08:13 PM

(is everybody having dinner?)

Henry - there are a lot of pics of CL on the AMW site - I believe it is the NC most wanted site...

CANDYKISSES

03-21-2008, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by baywench

Yes he is absolutely brilliant. Not everyone would of thought of burying the body in his own backyard. Genius! IMO [/*]

Yes, let's give him an A+ in planning Bay! ;)

donna

03-21-2008, 08:20 PM

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES

Yes, let's give him an A+ in planning Bay! ;) [/*]

:D

CANDYKISSES

03-21-2008, 08:24 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

What kinda pictures and photos.:) [/*]

Nothing indecent. :D

JMO.

You know, if you have any old pics of Christina laying around, send'em in for photobucket. ;)

J/K, don't send in any pics of Christina.

strick10

03-21-2008, 08:26 PM

Does anyone have any idea/theories as to how Maria gained access into the house?

IvySterling

03-21-2008, 08:26 PM

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES

Nothing indecent. :D
JMO.
You know, if you have any old pics of Christina laying around, send'em in for photobucket. ;)
J/K, don't send in any pics of Christina. [/*]
Why not? She's been mentioned in the Media :biggrin:

IvySterling

03-21-2008, 08:29 PM

Originally posted by strick10
Does anyone have any idea/theories as to how Maria gained access into the house? [/*]
She drove up, walked up the driveway, went though the side gate and either came in via the garage or the front room doors from the backyard................invited of course!

JUST MY THEORY

CANDYKISSES

03-21-2008, 08:31 PM

Originally posted by strick10
Does anyone have any idea/theories as to how Maria gained access into the house? [/*]

Strick, I don't and I guess it would depend on whether she was driving up after being invited or if she was going there to tell Cesar off before leaving for a little trip. :confused:

I mean, if I was married and inviting a man I had or was having a relationship over, I would open the garage door as quick as I could and pray he could slide his car in without anyone like Wanda noticing. JMOOC. ;)

But I see many posts that refer to the side gate and the garage, so maybe that's what others are thinking. I still have too many different theories to even get to the door. :cool:

jmo

CANDYKISSES

03-21-2008, 08:34 PM

Originally posted by IvySterling

Why not? She's been mentioned in the Media :biggrin: [/*]

Well, you know she is a cooperating witness at this time and we wouldn't ever want witnesses to feel they wouldn't have their identity protected after coming forth with such crucial information.

You might say she solved the case for them in a practical sense Ivy. It's doesn't refelect the views of this poster, but someone somewhere probably sings "Hail to Christina" and thinks she saved the day.

JMOOC. :shrug:

strick10

03-21-2008, 08:42 PM

Originally posted by IvySterling

She drove up, walked up the driveway, went though the side gate and either came in via the garage or the front room doors from the backyard................invited of course!

JUST MY THEORY [/*]

If she came in the side gate (I can only see this if CAL wouldn't open the front door or if he told her he'd be out back) and went through the rear garage door she may have been immediately attacked no?

strick10

03-21-2008, 08:45 PM

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES

Strick, I don't and I guess it would depend on whether she was driving up after being invited or if she was going there to tell Cesar off before leaving for a little trip. :confused:

I mean, if I was married and inviting a man I had or was having a relationship over, I would open the garage door as quick as I could and pray he could slide his car in without anyone like Wanda noticing. JMOOC. ;)

But I see many posts that refer to the side gate and the garage, so maybe that's what others are thinking. I still have too many different theories to even get to the door. :cool:

jmo [/*]

Ah yes Wanda. I'd think that if she had seen anything off the wall like another woman going to the L's house she would've told CSL the minute she had a chance to catch her alone.

IvySterling

03-21-2008, 08:48 PM

Originally posted by strick10

Ah yes Wanda. I'd think that if she had seen anything off the wall like another woman going to the L's house she would've told CSL the minute she had a chance to catch her alone. [/*]
Right, and Richard A. said when asked if he'd ever seen her he said "no". And if the Little Woman would have, Richard would have said as much. IMO.

strick10

03-21-2008, 08:51 PM

Originally posted by IvySterling

Right, and Richard A. said when asked if he'd ever seen her he said "no". And if the Little Woman would have, Richard would have said as much. IMO. [/*]

Yuppers. Why would he have her or why would she enter through the side gate? That would raise more my eyebrows more so than if she went through the front. IIRC it was said she entered throught the side gate. If she arrived unexpected how would she know to go through the back?

henry

03-21-2008, 08:52 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
(is everybody having dinner?)

Henry - there are a lot of pics of CL on the AMW site - I believe it is the NC most wanted site... [/*]

yeah, i've got that bookmarked . . . but we were thinking that other people/posters have also taken pictures and thought we'd get them all together . . . something like a picture link . . . a go-to reference for devoe & fuller adobe brick 4W11-6 . . . and any other pictures one would feel useful . . . just a suggestion

edit . . . sorry for the delay in responding . . . a whole group of people invaded our home at 6 . . . they just left :)

gaelicpeas

03-21-2008, 08:58 PM

Originally posted by henry

yeah, i've got that bookmarked . . . but we were thinking that other people/posters have also taken pictures and thought we'd get them all together . . . something like a picture link . . . a go-to reference for devoe & fuller adobe brick 4W11-6 . . . and any other pictures one would feel useful . . . just a suggestion

edit . . . sorry for the delay in responding . . . a whole group of people invaded our home at 6 . . . they just left :) [/*]

sounds like a good idea... I enjoyed looking at Nuttin's pics earlier.

IvySterling

03-21-2008, 09:01 PM

Originally posted by strick10

Yuppers. Why would he have her or why would she enter through the side gate? That would raise more my eyebrows more so than if she went through the front. IIRC it was said she entered throught the side gate. If she arrived unexpected how would she know to go through the back? [/*]
Hmmm, I dunno. Maybe she called first and he told her to come around the back.

As far as anyone seeing her maybe it was dark by the time she actually got there :shrug:

nuttintodo

03-21-2008, 09:01 PM

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by baywench

Seriously though, I think you insult CSL much more by believing she has no control over herself, her life or her husband. She is just a simpering victim who lives in terror and raises her child in this environment? On top of that she is apparently deaf, dumb and blind? And the most understanding woman in the world and the most gullible about her husband's infidelity. That has got to be the most pathetic woman in the world. I'd rather think she was covering for her husband....at least it gives her some shred of dignity. JMO [/*]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is no way that CSL only discussed this case with her husband every couple of months. I feel sure this was a hot topic and was high on her list of discussions. For her to only discuss it every couple of months goes way past absurd in my book. The hinky meter went way off the chart on that one.

She's portraying that she's deaf, dumb and blind, but she's so far from it, IMO.

And I get the impression that if CSL had ever been struck by her husband, she would have fought back and would have given more than she got. Don't ask me why, but I just have that feeling about her.

JMO and great post bay!

strick10

03-21-2008, 09:04 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

I don't remember anything about her entering through the side gate. Cesar told Christina, Maria slit her throat inside by the side gate. IIRC

I believe the garage front door was open and she walked in there. jmoo

KISS [/*]

Perhaps that is where I heard about the side gate. I don't think going in through the garage front door and then CAL closing it behind her is KISS. Since her 2nd visit, if there were 2, was unannounced I'd think she'd knock on the front door. I'm sure CAL wasn't cleaning up the garage at that time or any other time before that. JMO though.

nuttintodo

03-21-2008, 09:07 PM

Originally posted by strick10

Ah yes Wanda. I'd think that if she had seen anything off the wall like another woman going to the L's house she would've told CSL the minute she had a chance to catch her alone. [/*]

Let's not forget Wanda---even her husband basically said she nosy. Richard also said Wanda was always eavesdropping on the Laurean's outside conversations.

So I feel that if anything out of ordinary happened, Wanda would have seen it...she was the be all, know all, see all, but report none kind of neighbor. You know the johnny on the spot person. :D

I do, however, think Maria was taken out of the garage and buried late at night so no prying eyes would see.

JMO

baywench

03-21-2008, 09:14 PM

Originally posted by old_lady
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by baywench

Seriously though, I think you insult CSL much more by believing she has no control over herself, her life or her husband. She is just a simpering victim who lives in terror and raises her child in this environment? On top of that she is apparently deaf, dumb and blind? And the most understanding woman in the world and the most gullible about her husband's infidelity. That has got to be the most pathetic woman in the world. I'd rather think she was covering for her husband....at least it gives her some shred of dignity. JMO [/*]

It's shocking you don't seem to understand the concept of domestic violence.:eek: [/*]

I know domestic violence first hand and I know you don't have to be a victim. It's not easy but it can be done. I am nobody's victim wether they hit me or not. In your world all women are victims not mine. JMO

nuttintodo

03-21-2008, 09:16 PM

There's no telling where CAL was when Maria arrived that day. He could have been in the backyard and he saw her car turn on their street. He could have been in the house, like I said there's no telling. He's not here, and Maria's dead so there's no way of knowing.

As far as the side gate is concerned, that's where CSL told SB Maria had committed suicide.

This was on GVS. IIRC, Greta asked SB where did Maria supposedly commit suicide. SB said that the only time he talked to CSL was when he went to the deputy's/detective's car and asked her where did CAL tell her that Maria committed suicide. SB said that CSL walked him over to the gate and pointed at the ground and said here (just on the inside of the gate).

Since I don't have the link (and it's TiVO'ed on my tv), I just add JMO

henry

03-21-2008, 09:17 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by baywench

Seriously though, I think you insult CSL much more by believing she has no control over herself, her life or her husband. She is just a simpering victim who lives in terror and raises her child in this environment? On top of that she is apparently deaf, dumb and blind? And the most understanding woman in the world and the most gullible about her husband's infidelity. That has got to be the most pathetic woman in the world. I'd rather think she was covering for her husband....at least it gives her some shred of dignity. JMO [/*]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is no way that CSL only discussed this case with her husband every couple of months. I feel sure this was a hot topic and was high on her list of discussions. For her to only discuss it every couple of months goes way past absurd in my book. The hinky meter went way off the chart on that one.

She's portraying that she's deaf, dumb and blind, but she's so far from it, IMO.

And I get the impression that if CSL had ever been struck by her husband, she would have fought back and would have given more than she got. Don't ask me why, but I just have that feeling about her.

JMO and great post bay! [/*]

and add to that xtina's marriage to cesar was a shotgun one (do they use that term anymore?) . . . and i would imagine that's a difficult way to start off a marriage . . . imo

strick10

03-21-2008, 09:18 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

Men putter around in garages with the door open. Why wouldn't it be simple to lower the door. Maybe it is an automatic door.

I don't think he would want her in the main part of the house for fear she might accidentally drop something his wife would find.

jmoo [/*]

CAL doesn't strike me as the garage puttering kind of guy which may be an assumption on my part. His gargage was kinda messy. Maybe he was stacking the plastic containers by color? So do you think she came in throught the fron of the garage and he killed her pretty soon afterwards? Just asking what your thoughts are in this area is all.

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 09:18 PM

Originally posted by baywench

I know domestic violence first hand and I know you don't have to be a victim. It's not easy but it can be done. I am nobody's victim wether they hit me or not. In your world all women are victims not mine. JMO [/*]

ITA...i have been a "victim" of abuse, but i chose the high road and removed the "victim' status my dang self. christina has shown no signs of abuse...tells off maria, demands cl turn himself in, stays at a marine party without the marine. she definately has backbone. imo

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 09:19 PM

nuttintodo

03-21-2008, 09:20 PM

Originally posted by strick10

CAL doesn't strike me as the garage puttering kind of guy which may be an assumption on my part. His gargage was kinda messy. Maybe he was stacking the plastic containers by color? So do you think she came in throught the fron of the garage and he killed her pretty soon afterwards? Just asking what your thoughts are in this area is all. [/*]

No he's an aspiring fiction writer kind of guy.

jmo

nuttintodo

03-21-2008, 09:22 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

ITA...i have been a "victim" of abuse, but i chose the high road and removed the "victim' status my dang self. christina has shown no signs of abuse...tells off maria, demands cl turn himself in, stays at a marine party without the marine. she definately has backbone. imo [/*]

ITA, CSL definitely has a backbone! She isn't a weakling by any stretch of the imagination...

JMO

strick10

03-21-2008, 09:22 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

No he's an aspiring fiction writer kind of guy.

jmo [/*]
:lol:

donna

03-21-2008, 09:23 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

None of us know what Christina is like. You can't just read about someone and determine she is in no way a victim of DV. Most women will cover it up. jmo [/*]

Right, just as we cannot look at Christina and say she may BE a product of domestic violence.

However, with what little we DO know of Christina, she is not a fragile flower. She went through the same MC training as CAL did. I vote a big NO on domestic violence!

baywench

03-21-2008, 09:23 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

None of us know what Christina is like. You can't just read about someone and determine she is in no way a victim of DV. Most women will cover it up. jmo [/*]

But apparently you can? Victims walk on eggshells waiting for the next time you will be hit, followed by the apologies and promising of never doing it again...and then there is a little lull and your stomach tightens up knowing it's just a matter of time. In the beginning you love him and he doesn't do it that often and you think he is going to change. And then you pray the kids won't hear and all that time you plan your way out. And finally you go and he has the audicity to look surprised. I truly don't think my daughters will let anyone lay a hand on them. Without us their father was emascalated. Now, what do you know about it?????? JMO

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 09:25 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

Well none of us know her to determine either way, but I know what Cesar is and he has no respect for women. If he would rape Maria and kill her, I am sure he is not that nice with his wife.

JMO [/*]

IF

strick10

03-21-2008, 09:27 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

Yes, I do. Now I'm thinking a fight ensued right away and a struggle in reference to his raping or trying to rape her again. [/*]

Okay, I can see the fight starting right away and possibility that the murder weapon used most probable readily available in the garage vice inside the house. Won't comment on the rape portion.

baywench

03-21-2008, 09:30 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

IF [/*]

MW5 in my outrage right then I forgot to say good for you. In my experience you can only be a victim if that person still has some control of you. I am proud of us!

donna

03-21-2008, 09:30 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

Wait, surely you don't think no female marines are the victim of DV do you? You think the training is used in their home life? [/*]

Just stating my honest opinion..................

strick10

03-21-2008, 09:30 PM

Originally posted by donna

Right, just as we cannot look at Christina and say she may BE a product of domestic violence.

However, with what little we DO know of Christina, she is not a fragile flower. She went through the same MC training as CAL did. I vote a big NO on domestic violence! [/*]

I don't think CSL would've shrunk away either but there is domestic violence present for both male and female Marines. Even though that person may have gone throught the training I suppose it depends on how mentaly strong that person is to fight back. CSL looks like she may have stood own ground if that were the case. Besides if he were abusing her he could've just called her former SNCO to help her out.

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 09:30 PM

Originally posted by baywench

MW5 in my outrage right then I forgot to say good for you. In my experience you can only be a victim if that person still has some control of you. I am proud of us! [/*]:beer:

marinewife5

03-21-2008, 09:32 PM

Originally posted by strick10

I don't think CSL would've shrunk away either but there is domestic violence present for both male and female Marines. Even though that person may have gone throught the training I suppose it depends on how mentaly strong that person is to fight back. CSL looks like she may have stood own ground if that were the case. Besides if he were abusing her he could've just called her former SNCO to help her out. [/*]

so i'm not the only one getting a strange vibe about her going to her former snco before the police or ncis???

nuttintodo

03-21-2008, 09:35 PM

Originally posted by strick10

I don't think CSL would've shrunk away either but there is domestic violence present for both male and female Marines. Even though that person may have gone throught the training I suppose it depends on how mentaly strong that person is to fight back. CSL looks like she may have stood own ground if that were the case. Besides if he were abusing her he could've just called her former SNCO to help her out. [/*]

Yes she was able to call him about the notes, surely she would have turned to him if she was being abused by CAL.

There's no doubt in my mind that CSL was no victim of abuse.

jmo

nuttintodo

03-21-2008, 09:36 PM

Originally posted by marinewife5

so i'm not the only one getting a strange vibe about her going to her former snco before the police or ncis??? [/*]

Nope you are not alone in that thought.

baywench

03-21-2008, 09:36 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

Wait, surely you don't think no female marines are the victim of DV do you? You think the training is used in their home life? [/*]

What do you think boot camp is...some sort of finishing school? They put the female marines through basically the same training as the men. THey scream at them, gas them, exhaust them, belittle them ie they tear them down to build them up. THe ones that wash out are the ones that are not mentally or physically tough enough to make it. My daughter was in the Coast Guard and I NEVER EVER though she would go active after boot camp. She is no wimp but she said it was really tough. JMO

donna

03-21-2008, 09:36 PM

Originally posted by strick10

I don't think CSL would've shrunk away either but there is domestic violence present for both male and female Marines. Even though that person may have gone throught the training I suppose it depends on how mentaly strong that person is to fight back. CSL looks like she may have stood own ground if that were the case. Besides if he were abusing her he could've just called her former SNCO to help her out. [/*]

I agree there is domestic violence in all walks of life, strick10. Rich, poor, all colors, and both genders.

It is just my personal opinion that with what little we know about her that she would seem to have been mentally strong.