Wednesday-03/19/08 [Archive] - In Session Message Boards

henry

03-19-2008, 05:28 AM

good morning . . . okay, i've not bothered gentlebreeze to compare count dates - she has more important matters on her mind . . . so i'll post mine & maybe we'll resolve it in the next few days/weeks . . . i've got 69 days . . . oh crap - i hope this won't lead the board into the gutter today.

regarding theories to rsutherland - a link will be sent to rsutherland of what's on there friday or saturday . . . also we (meaning nuttintodo and me) would like to clean up that thread and need those that posted over there with that help . . . so this idea is being proposed:

if any poster wants to delete their theory or comments . . . to pm nuttintodo or me . . . and then nuttintodo will send one pm/email to C/W with the links to any posts they would like removed from the theories thread. (note: nuttintodo will be out of the "office" much of today . . . so i hope this pm box is clean - i'll tidy mine up now.)

i'm planning on posting partial point in time theories over there today and anyone is welcome to incorporate these thoughts in theirs . . . no pride of ownership here! and then i'll ask that mine be deleted prior to friday/saturday.

of course, subject to change/modification/clarification/ . . . or whatever . . . jmo

we'd like to NOT disturb/bother/annoy C/W as much as possible :) - thank you C/W for all your attention here in the past week :seeya:

henry

03-19-2008, 08:14 AM

also just watched a special fox news is doing . . . rick leventhal catches up with marines he met in iraq in 2003 . . . it's a video so hope this link works - it's over on the right - video entitled "five years later"

http://search2.foxnews.com/search?access=p&getfields=*&sort=date%3AD%3AS%3Ad1&output=xml_no_dtd&ie=UTF-8&client=my_frontend&filter=0&site=video&proxystylesheet=my_frontend&q=leventhal
:patriot: :patriot: :patriot:

caejde

03-19-2008, 09:03 AM

Good morning everyone! I am going to catch up with the rest of yesterday's thread. I think it is also possible Maria was already down on the floor-maybe she was pushed and fell or tripped and fell. And then she was hit like that.

Regina.Lampert

03-19-2008, 09:43 AM

Good morning everyone. Bringing this over from last night, a post by Nelkirk. Now, didn't we have confirmation from some source that an Article 32 was to be held in early December?

nelkirk
Member

Registered: Jan 2008
Location:
Posts: 506
As per the Dec 15 MC/PC

http://www.nbc17.com/midatlantic/nc...01-15-0028.html

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On November 26, 2007, LCpl Lauterbach attends a scheduled OB appointment at the Camp Lejeune Naval Hospital.

At this point in the alleged rape investigation, the regimental commander and trial counsel continue to discuss the evidence and the possible charges, if any, to prefer against Cpl Laurean. The regimental commander has not made a decision regarding what charges, if any, to prefer against Cpl Laurean and has not consulted with his Staff Judge Advocate. Cpl Laurean has not been detailed government defense counsel and no Article 32 hearing is scheduled as Cpl Laurean has not been charged with any offenses.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There was no Article 32 scheduled. The Article 32 is an investigation, where all of the witnesses, the accused and the accusor all put their statements under oath. CAL would have to reaffirm his denial that he had sexual contact with ML And ML would have to reaffirm her statements as to whether CAL was the baby's father, the allegations of "consensual rape" and her version of what happened on March 26 and again two weeks later. All of the other witnesses would have made their statements official. CAL would have had his attorney (whichever one he had for the rape allegations) present to cross examine ML's testimony. All evidence in the case would be presented.

At the end of the Article 32 JAG would decide whether or not to bring charges against CAL, or ML.

The Article 32 could have been bad for both CAL and ML. It could have proven that she had lied about the allegations just as easily as it could have shown that CAL had lied about sexual contact.

In the MC/PC it was stated that they wanted to use the DNA from the baby to establish paternity...it would have been presented as evidence in the Article 32. This is why the Article 32 had not been scheduled.IMO Even if this evidence has shown that the baby was CAL's, it would have only shown that he had sexual contact, not that he raped her.

Also, Nelkirks other posts from last night inspired the thought that since laurean had the MPO against him, perhaps that is the reason he wasn't at the Christmas party? He couldn't go because Maria could have been there?

caejde

03-19-2008, 09:46 AM

Originally posted by AnnieBean

I'm a rightie, hold my g'kids and held my kids on my left hip all the time...FWIW-

Good observations Lyn T [/*]

I'm a rightie and hold my baby on my right and left side.

Lynn Gweeny

03-19-2008, 10:00 AM

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert
Good morning everyone. Bringing this over from last night, a post by Nelkirk. Now, didn't we have confirmation from some source that an Article 32 was to be held in early December?

nelkirk
Member

Registered: Jan 2008
Location:
Posts: 506
As per the Dec 15 MC/PC

http://www.nbc17.com/midatlantic/nc...01-15-0028.html

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On November 26, 2007, LCpl Lauterbach attends a scheduled OB appointment at the Camp Lejeune Naval Hospital.

At this point in the alleged rape investigation, the regimental commander and trial counsel continue to discuss the evidence and the possible charges, if any, to prefer against Cpl Laurean. The regimental commander has not made a decision regarding what charges, if any, to prefer against Cpl Laurean and has not consulted with his Staff Judge Advocate. Cpl Laurean has not been detailed government defense counsel and no Article 32 hearing is scheduled as Cpl Laurean has not been charged with any offenses.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There was no Article 32 scheduled. The Article 32 is an investigation, where all of the witnesses, the accused and the accusor all put their statements under oath. CAL would have to reaffirm his denial that he had sexual contact with ML And ML would have to reaffirm her statements as to whether CAL was the baby's father, the allegations of "consensual rape" and her version of what happened on March 26 and again two weeks later. All of the other witnesses would have made their statements official. CAL would have had his attorney (whichever one he had for the rape allegations) present to cross examine ML's testimony. All evidence in the case would be presented.

At the end of the Article 32 JAG would decide whether or not to bring charges against CAL, or ML.

The Article 32 could have been bad for both CAL and ML. It could have proven that she had lied about the allegations just as easily as it could have shown that CAL had lied about sexual contact.

In the MC/PC it was stated that they wanted to use the DNA from the baby to establish paternity...it would have been presented as evidence in the Article 32. This is why the Article 32 had not been scheduled.IMO Even if this evidence has shown that the baby was CAL's, it would have only shown that he had sexual contact, not that he raped her.

Also, Nelkirks other posts from last night inspired the thought that since laurean had the MPO against him, perhaps that is the reason he wasn't at the Christmas party? He couldn't go because Maria could have been there? [/*]

QUESTION: Mr. Ciccarelli, can you shed light on when she was supposed to testify or be involved again in the process?

CICCARELLI: Discussions were underway to have an Article 32. For those not familiar with an Article 32, it's equivalent to a civilian grand jury. Fact finding. Determine if there's enough information from the investigation to go forward with a court-martial. That's what was scheduled. An Article 32 on the sexual assault investigation.

QUESTION: Was there a date was there a date ...

CICCARELLI: It was during December.

QUESTION: During the time she disappeared?

CICCARELLI: Yes.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0801/11/ywt.01.html

SavannahStar

03-19-2008, 10:06 AM

Originally posted by AnnieBean

I agree thats why he might not have been at the party, but why does Xtina go? What does she say when people ask her "wheres Cesar?"- "Oh, that pesky MPO is keeping him at home tonight...you know Cesar, stellar that he is, he always follows the letter of the law". GAG. Bet if she DID think he wasn't present just because of the MPO, and then came home to find Maria there, it set her off just a titch.....
i'm jus sayin [/*]

Why does Christina go to the party...my answer from last night is below.

We don't know HER relationship with people in that unit....other wives, women, etc. And maybe there was NO pretense. I'm still having a difficult time not believing that she just wanted to go to the party and he didn't for whatever reason(s). And I never have bought the idea that she was sitting there fuming because he didn't show up. Hey maybe she was a big party type person and he was not into parties at all. It's not that unusual for married couple to be different like that. One of my best friends and her husband are the opposite.....the friend is always out with friends and partying and the guy doesn't care for it. They have a fine marriage too!

Until I get some concrete proof otherwise, that's how I think right now.

gaelicpeas

03-19-2008, 10:08 AM

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny

QUESTION: Mr. Ciccarelli, can you shed light on when she was supposed to testify or be involved again in the process?

CICCARELLI: Discussions were underway to have an Article 32. For those not familiar with an Article 32, it's equivalent to a civilian grand jury. Fact finding. Determine if there's enough information from the investigation to go forward with a court-martial. That's what was scheduled. An Article 32 on the sexual assault investigation.

QUESTION: Was there a date was there a date ...

CICCARELLI: It was during December.

QUESTION: During the time she disappeared?

CICCARELLI: Yes.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0801/11/ywt.01.html [/*]

Thanks, Lynn - I thought I remembered Ciccarelli saying that. I wish he had given an exact date in December.

henry

03-19-2008, 10:09 AM

also regarding the baby clothing - wish they had mentioned the color like they did with maria's shirt - not that it would help much. but i'd like to know if it was pink or blue . . . or white, yellow, green, etc. i'm wondering if they left the color out of the report because of this "clue" :confused:

Regina.Lampert

03-19-2008, 10:13 AM

GentleBreeze

03-19-2008, 10:14 AM

Originally posted by henry
good morning . . . okay, i've not bothered gentlebreeze to compare count dates - she has more important matters on her mind . . . so i'll post mine & maybe we'll resolve it in the next few days/weeks . . . i've got 69 days . . . oh crap - i hope this won't lead the board into the gutter today.

regarding theories to rsutherland - a link will be sent to rsutherland of what's on there friday or saturday . . . also we (meaning nuttintodo and me) would like to clean up that thread and need those that posted over there with that help . . . so this idea is being proposed:

if any poster wants to delete their theory or comments . . . to pm nuttintodo or me . . . and then nuttintodo will send one pm/email to C/W with the links to any posts they would like removed from the theories thread. (note: nuttintodo will be out of the "office" much of today . . . so i hope this pm box is clean - i'll tidy mine up now.)

i'm planning on posting partial point in time theories over there today and anyone is welcome to incorporate these thoughts in theirs . . . no pride of ownership here! and then i'll ask that mine be deleted prior to friday/saturday.

of course, subject to change/modification/clarification/ . . . or whatever . . . jmo

we'd like to NOT disturb/bother/annoy C/W as much as possible :) - thank you C/W for all your attention here in the past week :seeya: [/*]

Good morning Henry and Everyone!

I will take your count date over mine, any day. You are the expert.:) I was mistaken.......the last five days have been a blur. Sorry I got it all messed up.

I sure wish something............anythiing........would break on this case. We just seem to be stuck in some kind of suspension.

imoo

caejde

03-19-2008, 10:15 AM

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert

Did we ever learn if Santa and gifts were at the party? If so, perhaps Christina took the little girl to the party? [/*]

I don't think we have ever heard. But given the time of day and with school not being out yet for Christmas, I would say that Santa wasn't there. In my opinion, I think if they were going to have the kids, they would have had a family day event on a Saturday or the party would have been later in the evening. In my unit-the 800+Marines/Sailors-our family days were held on Satruday and would last several hours.

Regina.Lampert

03-19-2008, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny

QUESTION: Mr. Ciccarelli, can you shed light on when she was supposed to testify or be involved again in the process?

CICCARELLI: Discussions were underway to have an Article 32. For those not familiar with an Article 32, it's equivalent to a civilian grand jury. Fact finding. Determine if there's enough information from the investigation to go forward with a court-martial. That's what was scheduled. An Article 32 on the sexual assault investigation.

QUESTION: Was there a date was there a date ...

CICCARELLI: It was during December.

QUESTION: During the time she disappeared?

CICCARELLI: Yes.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0801/11/ywt.01.html [/*]

Thank you Lynn, so an Article 32 hearing was indeed scheduled.

Marcia3

03-19-2008, 10:17 AM

gaelicpeas

03-19-2008, 10:17 AM

I am really confused about the party now. Nelkirk posted this last night (sorry, I don't know how to use the quote button from a different thread, so I am copying and pasting from her post):

(snipped)

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/17...rine/index.html

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the document she says her husband told her:

(snipped)

"Christina Laurean told police she was at a Christmas party for her husband's Marine unit during the late afternoon and evening of December 15, Onslow County Sheriff Ed Brown told CNN. Onslow County Sheriff Ed Brown told CNN. Her husband did not attend the party, she told authorities."

(end quote)
(snipped)

Now, I don't know if this article got the party time right or not, "but late afternoon and evening" does not fit the usual party times according to what our other military posters said yesterday. I can't believe that LE won't tell us when this party was! I mean, everyone who was at the party knows, so it is not like it's some big secret.

JMO

Regina.Lampert

03-19-2008, 10:17 AM

Originally posted by caejde

I don't think we have ever heard. But given the time of day and with school not being out yet for Christmas, I would say that Santa wasn't there. In my opinion, I think if they were going to have the kids, they would have had a family day event on a Saturday or the party would have been later in the evening. In my unit-the 800+Marines/Sailors-our family days were held on Satruday and would last several hours. [/*]

Oh, okay and thanks for your view on this caejde.

gaelicpeas

03-19-2008, 10:20 AM

Originally posted by henry
also regarding the baby clothing - wish they had mentioned the color like they did with maria's shirt - not that it would help much. but i'd like to know if it was pink or blue . . . or white, yellow, green, etc. i'm wondering if they left the color out of the report because of this "clue" :confused: [/*]

Interesting thought, Henry...

henry

03-19-2008, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by Lyn_T
Morning all, still working on my theory here but too many unanswered ?'s.

Since I am new here and don't know if any of this was discussed please excuse me if it was.

1. Phone records....I read on a LejeuneUnderground thread that CL was at a bonfire of someone else around May 12th and kept getting phone calls from someone that left him agitated and upset. I would like to know WHO that was, CSL or Maria?
The girls who posted recognized his pic as one who was there, still looking for that link.

2. The baby clothes found, were they new or some CSL had leftover from her yard sale items in Jan?
http://www.lejeuneyardsales.com/search.jsp?accountId=3140821

(wish there was someway to pull up that list of items, it was put on another thread at the time but the mod pulled it, although a vacuum was talked of being sold)

On another note just IMO - I can't help but believe that CSL and CL actually didn't remember the exact date everything went down and tied it into payday which would have been the 15th of the month. JMO in why the date confussion. [/*]

for what it's worth . . jd news article this morning has some new comments & one mentions times of the calls on the 11th . . . i'm upstairs on the ancient laptop (yahoo the keyboard works!) but my links are downstairs . . . so jmo

hinman

03-19-2008, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
I am really confused about the party now. Nelkirk posted this last night (sorry, I don't know how to use the quote button from a different thread, so I am copying and pasting from her post):

(snipped)

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/17...rine/index.html

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the document she says her husband told her:

(snipped)

"Christina Laurean told police she was at a Christmas party for her husband's Marine unit during the late afternoon and evening of December 15, Onslow County Sheriff Ed Brown told CNN. Onslow County Sheriff Ed Brown told CNN. Her husband did not attend the party, she told authorities."

(end quote)
(snipped)

Now, I don't know if this article got the party time right or not, "but late afternoon and evening" does not fit the usual party times according to what our other military posters said yesterday. I can't believe that LE won't tell us when this party was! I mean, everyone who was at the party knows, so it is not like it's some big secret.

JMO [/*]That article says the party was the 15th which is when they first said Maria was killed.

I wonder which one is it was the party on the 14 or the 15?

I am with you I wonder if we can post a message on Lejeune underground and if anyone over there attended that party?

henry

03-19-2008, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by AnnieBean

Hi Lyn.
Heres all I know:
The baby clothes were still in their original packaging, although partially melted away plastic bag...so, new, IMO.

We speculated a while back on that being nosey and untrusting Christina on the phone constantly to Cesar at the bonfire he attended not at his hown home...but it could just as well have been Christina...we just don't know,.
But I bet LE does cos they have his cell phone records.:D ! JMO [/*]

how about we offer rsutherland a trade . . . our, collectively, of course, theories in exchange for the cell phone records . . these, imo, would be the most helpful in piecing this together :) this icon means i'm joking . . . jmo . . . but seriously, not to confuse matters, what one piece of info would you like from rsutherland (if he could give it - all hypothetical, etc.)

GentleBreeze

03-19-2008, 10:35 AM

Originally posted by SavannahStar

Why does Christina go to the party...my answer from last night is below.

We don't know HER relationship with people in that unit....other wives, women, etc. And maybe there was NO pretense. I'm still having a difficult time not believing that she just wanted to go to the party and he didn't for whatever reason(s). And I never have bought the idea that she was sitting there fuming because he didn't show up. Hey maybe she was a big party type person and he was not into parties at all. It's not that unusual for married couple to be different like that. One of my best friends and her husband are the opposite.....the friend is always out with friends and partying and the guy doesn't care for it. They have a fine marriage too!

Until I get some concrete proof otherwise, that's how I think right now. [/*]

Hi Savannah!

I guess it is how one looks at it and from their own personal experiences. My hubby works for a huge corporation and they believe in having parties through the year for special occasions. Since he has worked there 40 years I know just about everyone as well as he does but I would never show up for a party, alone and he not be there with me and the same goes for him. Especially to HIS own party.

Now if she had gone knowing full well he was on his way and would be arriving then that is one thing but to be there among his superior officers by herself for hours drawing attention to his absence just strikes me as very odd. It also makes me think she would have to field more questions that it was worth (Where is Laurean?" Why didn't he come?" "Go call him and tell him to get his butt over here.) etc.

Your friends are lucky. I have found when one spouse starts venturing out to parties and bars alone and the other one stays behind .......that something is very lacking in the marriage.
That is just based on the many people I have known that started doing that and their marriage began to cave.

imoo

hinman

03-19-2008, 10:36 AM

Originally posted by henry

how about we offer rsutherland a trade . . . our, collectively, of course, theories in exchange for the cell phone records . . these, imo, would be the most helpful in piecing this together :) this icon means i'm joking . . . jmo . . . but seriously, not to confuse matters, what one piece of info would you like from rsutherland (if he could give it - all hypothetical, etc.) [/*]I would love to see the phone records of CL.

strick10

03-19-2008, 10:36 AM

Originally posted by Lyn_T
Morning all, still working on my theory here but too many unanswered ?'s.

Since I am new here and don't know if any of this was discussed please excuse me if it was.

1. Phone records....I read on a LejeuneUnderground thread that CL was at a bonfire of someone else around May 12th and kept getting phone calls from someone that left him agitated and upset. I would like to know WHO that was, CSL or Maria?
The girls who posted recognized his pic as one who was there, still looking for that link.

2. The baby clothes found, were they new or some CSL had leftover from her yard sale items in Jan?
http://www.lejeuneyardsales.com/search.jsp?accountId=3140821

(wish there was someway to pull up that list of items, it was put on another thread at the time but the mod pulled it, although a vacuum was talked of being sold)

On another note just IMO - I can't help but believe that CSL and CL actually didn't remember the exact date everything went down and tied it into payday which would have been the 15th of the month. JMO in why the date confussion. [/*]

I recall reading the first part of your post in Lejeune sales. They supposidly also sold a table.
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.ListAll&friendID=26344987

alter ego

03-19-2008, 10:36 AM

Originally posted by AnnieBean

I asked that or brought it up somehow (maybe in one of my things on theory thread)

Whoever hit Maria with that weapon IMO was rght handed as it was a left sided head wound. But we have never gotten confirmation of that.

But you know I never considered her being hit from behind, so it could very well be a lefty. So, right back tio square one. All we really know is the killer was either right or left handed. Maybe ME has a way to tell if she has struck from front or gehind by the wound pattern or something. JMO

And Good morning!!!!:seeya: [/*]I think determining if the perp was a lefty or a righty would depend on which way Maria was facing when the blow was struck.

gaelicpeas

03-19-2008, 10:40 AM

Originally posted by hinman
That article says the party was the 15th which is when they first said Maria was killed.

I wonder which one is it was the party on the 14 or the 15?

I am with you I wonder if we can post a message on Lejeune underground and if anyone over there attended that party? [/*]

Interesting - I had not considered that there could have been multiple parties (one on Dec 14 and one on Dec 15).

And good idea about posting that question on the LU site...

henry

03-19-2008, 10:42 AM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
snipped nicely

Now, I don't know if this article got the party time right or not, "but late afternoon and evening" does not fit the usual party times according to what our other military posters said yesterday. I can't believe that LE won't tell us when this party was! I mean, everyone who was at the party knows, so it is not like it's some big secret.

JMO [/*]

just a quick question pres peas . . . are any of your theories based on totally ignoring xtina's affidavit/statements? tia

gaelicpeas

03-19-2008, 10:47 AM

Originally posted by henry

just a quick question pres peas . . . are any of your theories based on totally ignoring xtina's affidavit/statements? tia [/*]

Yes.... I would say that my abduction theory does not incorporate any of her statements.

(also, I can't find the JD News article for today that you mentioned. Does anyone else have the link? TIA)

strick10

03-19-2008, 11:02 AM

Originally posted by Lyn_T
Jose's myspace someone asked about yesterday, he was the witness on Laurean's marriage license.
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=3546480 [/*]

Great job LynT. I believe he has 2 sites.

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=83745158

I checked his name in people finders and found that Melissa is a possible relative. I can't tell from the picture on the page you posted if it's the same guy on both pages. Your thoughts?

strick10

03-19-2008, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by Sami
I deleted my post about Jose's age, since Strick's link shows his age as being 22 in 2008.

I thought he was 22 in 2004, which was the first link put up by Lyn.

If he's just now 22, he was barely old enough to witness the marriage. :D [/*]

yup as young as the groom almost.

Kel65

03-19-2008, 11:18 AM

Originally posted by Lyn_T

I believe it to be the same guy, looking at his party pics from yours and other pics with homies from mine. Hmmm, wonder if he was married in Onslow county and who his witnesses were. On the 1st myspace I had it was from 05 I believe and this other one was set up in 06. [/*]

I've been looking at the MS page this morning. If you look at the pictures on his MS you will notice a very interesting paint color. It is the picture of he and his wife, what looks like prior to going to a USMC ball. JMO

Regina.Lampert

03-19-2008, 11:19 AM

Originally posted by Sami

There's a small window of opportunity, imo.

Had to be after 12/17, and we've learned that around the holidays, the base is operating 'short-handed', so I'd not expect much normal activity at all after the 24th.

As a matter of fact, the base didn't seem to catch back up to speed until the second week of January. JMO [/*]

Yes, apparently the appearance of Maria's family and the local sheriff's department on their doorstep, helped them to get up to speed. IMO.

strick10

03-19-2008, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by Lyn_T

I believe it to be the same guy, looking at his party pics from yours and other pics with homies from mine. Hmmm, wonder if he was married in Onslow county and who his witnesses were. On the 1st myspace I had it was from 05 I believe and this other one was set up in 06. [/*]

The one from 05 was accessed last on 2 Mar 05. The one I posted he accessed his page on 13 Mar 08. Looks like he may have forgotten his password(s) to the first one and set up another page. Yeah, pics of his homies.....no CAL though.

strick10

03-19-2008, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by Kel65

I've been looking at the MS page this morning. If you look at the pictures on his MS you will notice a very interesting paint color. It is the picture of he and his wife, what looks like prior to going to a USMC ball. JMO [/*]

I hadn't noticed the paint before. Same color scheme as CALs choice of color for his walls.

strick10

03-19-2008, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by Sami

That surprises me that there are no pics of Cesar.

Maybe he wasn't allowed to party after marrying Christina? [/*]

Maybe he just wanted to be with Christina all the time thereafter. Or not. Maybe he was whooped and Christina didn't allow him to hang w/ the boys. Who knows.

GentleBreeze

03-19-2008, 11:31 AM

I thought nelkirk's post from yesterday is interesting.

nelkirk
Member

Registered: Jan 2008
Location:
Posts: 506
Has anyone discovered if CAL or CSL is right or left handed?

Since I am a lefty it would be easier for me swing a powerful blow against the head from behind. Where a right handed person would have a more powerful coming from the front. And coming from the front, the victim would be alerted to the danger.

And once again the media as well as others are stating that the neck wound was post mortem, but the autopsy report does not say that...

********************************************

What about the superficial wound to her neck? Wouldn't that given them some glimpse if the perp was left or right handed? Of course assuming that the blow to the head and the knife wound were inflicted by the same person.

IMO the ME is not sure at all if this happened post death or pre death. Anytime when the autopsy report states "may have" it is not a certainty at all.

But if the knife wound happened before death then I am more confused than before. Why would he/she throw down a sharp knife when they had it right in their hand and pick up an instrument most likely laying close by?

imoo

caejde

03-19-2008, 11:31 AM

Originally posted by Sami

What a thought, Kel! It certainly looks to be that awful (IMO) color choice that Cesar (or someone?) made for their living room.

Very crafty of you to notice. :beer: [/*]

I don't think it's quite the same. That color is a little lighter than what the Laurean's had.

Regina.Lampert

03-19-2008, 11:33 AM

Originally posted by Sami

Did anyone notice that strange comment to mk, and mk's answer?

I thought it might have been a former boyfriend of Christina's???

http://www.jdnews.com/news/baby_55479___article.html/autopsy_clothing.html

(almost at the very bottom) [/*]

Am I reading that right, he's calling her a "heffer?" I'm not putting too much creedence in that poster, mk....sounds
like a very disgruntled former boyfriend to me.

caejde

03-19-2008, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by Sami

But, you know where my mind was racing, don't you, caejde? :D

This guy lived right down the street from Cesar at one time, and if this were HIS house down the street from Cesar, and if Cesar needed some paint to quickly cover up blood. . . . . [/*]

Of course I know. I was thinking it was a similiar color but looking at it closer it just looks a little lighter. And actually, I looked up that address...it's about 5 miles away. Wonder what this guy's MOS is...

Maka

03-19-2008, 11:43 AM

Originally posted by caejde

I don't think it's quite the same. That color is a little lighter than what the Laurean's had. [/*]

Take into account ....
the living room pic taken by LE at the L's house is really dark...especially in comparison to the MLS photos. The tile is way darker in the LE photo too.

compare the garage patch pic to the D's hall

Kel65

03-19-2008, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by caejde

I don't think it's quite the same. That color is a little lighter than what the Laurean's had. [/*]

Could be different, but my experience is paints photograph strangely, so it would be hard to determine one way or another.

When my house in J'ville was on Realtor.com last year, I had this room that was red and the photos that were posted on Realtor.com didn't represent the color well at all. So I think it depends on the camera, lighting etc a the time the picture was taken.

When I first saw the color, I thought wow wonder if Jose gave the Laureans some left over paint he had from painting his house.

JMO

Kel65

03-19-2008, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by Lyn_T
OMG, you are not going to believe this.
http://deeds.onslowcountync.gov/cottview32.asp?ImageId=00116848&Seq=0001

Seems that Jose bought a house on Meadow Trail and is one of Laurean's neighbors. Married in Onslow and Melissa was/is a Marine also or at least on DOM. Deeds has their marriage license, 2 births, home etc.

edited after google address search:
This house is directly across the street from Laureans [/*]

Wow.

gaelicpeas

03-19-2008, 11:56 AM

I was looking at his more recent myspace and trying to read the comments from friends - which I am finding very difficult because of his background with that flag and the red on the right side.

Anyway, I THINK one of the comments dated Jan 19 says to "squeeze babee for me and tell the wifey i said hi" or something to that effect. Now, I think this guy has two children.

This comment is from the guy with the skull showing through on his head (or something). Could it be....

JMO

henry

03-19-2008, 11:56 AM

Originally posted by AnnieBean

First, I have not been keeping up, sorry. who is Jose?
second, the link won't work for me, what was the house number on Joses deed?TIA [/*]

a friend of cesar's . . . ?witnessed the marriage license . . . now lives across the street from them . . . same paint color . . . jmo . . . doing something else at this time

Regina.Lampert

03-19-2008, 11:56 AM

Hmmmm, anybody else think Jose could have been a little helper on the night of 12/14 and subsequent days?

GentleBreeze

03-19-2008, 11:57 AM

Originally posted by Sami

Did anyone notice that strange comment to mk, and mk's answer?

I thought it might have been a former boyfriend of Christina's???

http://www.jdnews.com/news/baby_55479___article.html/autopsy_clothing.html

(almost at the very bottom) [/*]

Interesting comments Sami and wow most of them are slicing and dicing CSL big time and we know that Captain Sutherland reads them because he also has made his own comments before over there.

I found one comment very interesting. It was made by "About the truth" on May 15, 08 @ 2:24:50 pm

imoo

gaelicpeas

03-19-2008, 11:57 AM

OMG... and this same guy makes some reference to a "patch of dirt" on Dec 17!

Kel65

03-19-2008, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by Sami

Did the link open for you, Kel? TIA [/*]

Yes and Mapquest shows that both 112 and 103 Meadow Trail a few houses down from each other.

Now, I 'm real interested in the paint color being similar!!!

GentleBreeze

03-19-2008, 12:02 PM

strick10

03-19-2008, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert
Hmmmm, anybody else think Jose could have been a little helper on the night of 12/14 and subsequent days? [/*]

Hmmmm is right Regina. I've always thought there may have been someone else involved in the whole scheme of things aside from Christinas' possible involvement. This Jose has been deployed, time to find out if he was at CLNC during the crime time.

henry

03-19-2008, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
I was looking at his more recent myspace and trying to read the comments from friends - which I am finding very difficult because of his background with that flag and the red on the right side.

Anyway, I THINK one of the comments dated Jan 19 says to "squeeze babee for me and tell the wifey i said hi" or something to that effect. Now, I think this guy has two children.

This comment is from the guy with the skull showing through on his head (or something). Could it be....

JMO [/*]

hah! have a helpful hint for you . . . highlight it like you're going to cut/paste . . . i had the same problem

strick10

03-19-2008, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
I was looking at his more recent myspace and trying to read the comments from friends - which I am finding very difficult because of his background with that flag and the red on the right side.

Anyway, I THINK one of the comments dated Jan 19 says to "squeeze babee for me and tell the wifey i said hi" or something to that effect. Now, I think this guy has two children.

This comment is from the guy with the skull showing through on his head (or something). Could it be....

JMO [/*]

If you high light the comments they are readable in cases where the backgrounds are so busy.

Kel65

03-19-2008, 12:06 PM

Originally posted by Sami
Well, do ya'll think Jose could have been the 'unidentifed male' at the ATM, instead of Cesar?

I wonder if Jose has any tatoos. I bet he does. . . . [/*]

That is what I am wondering. Check out his body build in his MS pics against what you can tell from the the ATM photos.

henry

03-19-2008, 12:06 PM

i'm back downstairs . . . here's the jd link

http://www.jdnews.com/news/baby_55479___article.html/autopsy_clothing.html

GentleBreeze

03-19-2008, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert
Hmmmm, anybody else think Jose could have been a little helper on the night of 12/14 and subsequent days? [/*]

But didn't CS say Christina came in around 7 pm and we have estimated that Maria returned close to 6pm unless LE knows she stopped somewhere to get her a bite to eat first.

Is he in the same unit as CL, I wonder? It would be very easy for LE to find out where he was during that time period.

imoo

gaelicpeas

03-19-2008, 12:12 PM

Originally posted by henry

hah! have a helpful hint for you . . . highlight it like you're going to cut/paste . . . i had the same problem [/*]

lol, thanks Henry. Now I see it says "your babee" - sheesh, at first I thought it was CL talking in reference to CSL and their daughter.

(so, IOW, never mind!)

edited to add: and thanks to you too, Strick!

GentleBreeze

03-19-2008, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by Sami

Can you please share the link, GB? TIA

(And how is your daughter)? [/*]

I was commenting on the site you had just linked Sam, over on the JDN site. Sorry I should have put up the link again.

She is at the hospital at this time...I am waiting to hear from her. They said if she has not made progress today they most likely would admit her.

imoo

henry

03-19-2008, 12:15 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

But didn't CS say Christina came in around 7 pm and we have estimated that Maria returned close to 6pm unless LE knows she stopped somewhere to get her a bite to eat first.

Is he in the same unit as CL, I wonder? It would be very easy for LE to find out where he was during that time period.

imoo [/*]

i can't wait to see lynt & gpeas theories not using xtina's timeline/info . . . i think that may be the key . . . cause her info doesn't fit some of ours :) .. . imo

gaelicpeas

03-19-2008, 12:15 PM

Originally posted by Lyn_T

I think that his "cuz" might be referring to a piece of dirt in AZ. I clicked on his profile and he lives in AZ. [/*]

yeah, I agree - I have since gone to his friend's myspace also and saw that.

Well, shoot, I thought I had located CL!!!!

Kel65

03-19-2008, 12:27 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

yeah, I agree - I have since gone to his friend's myspace also and saw that.

Well, shoot, I thought I had located CL!!!! [/*]

This does bring up an interesting theory that maybe CAL is communicating through a friend's established MySpace to send messages to CSL. Not saying through this person, but maybe someone else. Just my speculation . . .

Kel65

03-19-2008, 12:30 PM

Originally posted by Lyn_T
Paint pics side by side, sorry puter crashed and just got this uploaded.
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/tay972/Paintcomparison.jpg

I didn't do any photo editing, just pasted what I had side by side. Depending on lighting IMO could be same color or very, very close [/*]

That is pretty darn close, if it isn't the same. I suspect it is the same color. JMO

henry

03-19-2008, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by Lyn_T
Paint pics side by side, sorry puter crashed and just got this uploaded.
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/tay972/Paintcomparison.jpg

I didn't do any photo editing, just pasted what I had side by side. Depending on lighting IMO could be same color or very, very close [/*]

from a layperson that mixes wall paint to come out with the perfect color (imo) that's the best match i've seen in a photo - light reeks havoc on wall color . . . imo

Kel65

03-19-2008, 12:33 PM

I recently had to select paint color my home. During my quest for colors, I went to Lowes. They have this gizmo (for lack of a better term) where you can take a paint swatch and put it under different types of lighting to get a feel for how a color may look in a room with particular type of lighting. It is amazing to see how one paint swatch looks under various types of lighting.

gaelicpeas

03-19-2008, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by Lyn_T
Paint pics side by side, sorry puter crashed and just got this uploaded.
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/tay972/Paintcomparison.jpg

I didn't do any photo editing, just pasted what I had side by side. Depending on lighting IMO could be same color or very, very close [/*]

Good job, Lyn.

Looks identical to me - in fact, it wouldn't surprise me if that pic was taken IN the Laurean's house!

Kel65

03-19-2008, 12:35 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

Good job, Lyn.

Looks identical to me - in fact, it wouldn't surprise me if that pic was taken IN the Laurean's house! [/*]

I think the Jose picture was probably taken in Nov. during USMC ball time. I don't think the Laurean's had that color in their house until late December. I don't think it was taken at the Laurean house. JMO

Regina.Lampert

03-19-2008, 12:35 PM

Originally posted by strick10

Hmmmm is right Regina. I've always thought there may have been someone else involved in the whole scheme of things aside from Christinas' possible involvement. This Jose has been deployed, time to find out if he was at CLNC during the crime time. [/*]
Oh yeah Strick, we need to know that for sure.

gaelicpeas

03-19-2008, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by Kel65

I think the Jose picture was probably taken in Nov. during USMC ball time. I don't think the Laurean's had that color in their house until late December. I don't think it was taken at the Laurean house. JMO [/*]

oh ok... makes sense...

crymeariver2006

03-19-2008, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

Good job, Lyn.

Looks identical to me - in fact, it wouldn't surprise me if that pic was taken IN the Laurean's house! [/*]

You read my mind! But if all of the houses there are similar in build...

Anyhow, would the hallway be back behind the left hand lower corner? (In the LE photo?)

gaelicpeas

03-19-2008, 12:37 PM

Originally posted by Kel65

This does bring up an interesting theory that maybe CAL is communicating through a friend's established MySpace to send messages to CSL. Not saying through this person, but maybe someone else. Just my speculation . . . [/*]

I think that is a good possibility too, Kel...

gaelicpeas

03-19-2008, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

You read my mind! But if all of the houses there are similar in build...

Anyhow, would the hallway be back behind the left hand lower corner? (In the LE photo?) [/*]

Yes, I think that's the hall, Cryme...

JMO

henry

03-19-2008, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert

Oh yeah Strick, we need to know that for sure. [/*]

what's mimi's date of the post that you copied over on the theory thread? tia

strick10

03-19-2008, 12:42 PM

Originally posted by henry

from a layperson that mixes wall paint to come out with the perfect color (imo) that's the best match i've seen in a photo - light reeks havoc on wall color . . . imo [/*]

Not only that henry but the depth in color also is dependent on how many coats are applied and the type of paint applicator is used. Some applicators apply the paint heavier than others. Being that the wall was probably white to begin with it would take more than just one coat to cover it or a thicker application. I'm sure you already know this, I was just adding.

crymeariver2006

03-19-2008, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze
I thought nelkirk's post from yesterday is interesting.

nelkirk
Member

Registered: Jan 2008
Location:
Posts: 506
Has anyone discovered if CAL or CSL is right or left handed?

Since I am a lefty it would be easier for me swing a powerful blow against the head from behind. Where a right handed person would have a more powerful coming from the front. And coming from the front, the victim would be alerted to the danger.

And once again the media as well as others are stating that the neck wound was post mortem, but the autopsy report does not say that...

********************************************

What about the superficial wound to her neck? Wouldn't that given them some glimpse if the perp was left or right handed? Of course assuming that the blow to the head and the knife wound were inflicted by the same person.

IMO the ME is not sure at all if this happened post death or pre death. Anytime when the autopsy report states "may have" it is not a certainty at all.

But if the knife wound happened before death then I am more confused than before. Why would he/she throw down a sharp knife when they had it right in their hand and pick up an instrument most likely laying close by?

imoo [/*]

Plus, that's quite a contrast in injuries. A blow to the head with so much force that it was fatal, yet a superficial knife wound.

The only thing I can think of (well it's not the only thing), but these wounds were produced by two different people.

Maybe the knife wound was just to "make sure" she was dead?

caejde

03-19-2008, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by strick10

Not only that henry but the depth in color also is dependent on how many coats are applied and the type of paint applicator is used. Some applicators apply the paint heavier than others. Being that the wall was probably white to begin with it would take more than just one coat to cover it or a thicker application. I'm sure you already know this, I was just adding. [/*]

Which could be why I didn't think it was the same color. Be interesting to know when the Laurean's started painting. I know the neighbor says "before Christimas". Just wonder when before...

crymeariver2006

03-19-2008, 12:48 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

Yes, I think that's the hall, Cryme...

JMO [/*]

Sooooo, if the pic was taken in the Laurean hallway and the MC ball is in November....the Laureans were in full paint mode before the murder.

(I think they were planning on moving out, murder or none, but that's JMO.)

If it's Jose's hallway and Cesar borrowed paint, this guy must have had a ton of it left!

Regina.Lampert

03-19-2008, 12:48 PM

Originally posted by henry

what's mimi's date of the post that you copied over on the theory thread? tia [/*]
3/18

crymeariver2006

03-19-2008, 12:50 PM

Has Jose been deployed and if so, when?

martha

03-19-2008, 12:50 PM

GB I hope your daughter is doing better today. Maybe she will not have to go to the hospital. I am so mixed up on this case the time the dates and just everything. Maybe when they get cl we will know more or maybe not. I doubt we will ever know the truth about it all. I just can;t understand why he killed her he had other things he could have done. It is so very hard to believe he would kill her and the baby. As has been said on this board we can;t think like a killer does tho. 20 year olds don;t always think things thru. I do think it was a crime of passion tho. Things happen in this old world that we would never think of happening to us. :rose:

Kel65

03-19-2008, 12:50 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

Sooooo, if the pic was taken in the Laurean hallway and the MC ball is in November....the Laureans were in full paint mode before the murder.

(I think they were planning on moving out, murder or none, but that's JMO.)

If it's Jose's hallway and Cesar borrowed paint, this guy must have had a ton of it left! [/*]

I know when I painted I had a ton left. We have several friends that painted some rooms with it (granted they were small rooms like a bathroom). But even if he didn't have a ton, he may have had enough to get Cesar started to cover the areas that needed to be covered ASAP. Then he could have bought more paint another day to finish the painting. JMO.

caejde

03-19-2008, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

Sooooo, if the pic was taken in the Laurean hallway and the MC ball is in November....the Laureans were in full paint mode before the murder.

(I think they were planning on moving out, murder or none, but that's JMO.)

If it's Jose's hallway and Cesar borrowed paint, this guy must have had a ton of it left! [/*]

That's why I'd like to know when the Laurean's started painting.

And if Cesar borrowed, maybe he had just enough that they could spot paint-like the that one section in the garage-and say "yep, this'll do" and go get the same kind for the living room. JMO.

Kel65

03-19-2008, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006
Has Jose been deployed and if so, when? [/*]

From his MS I think we know that he was at least deployed last April. That is what I have been able to infer. Anyone in the CLNC area that can find out the duration of is most recent deployment?

caejde

03-19-2008, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006
Has Jose been deployed and if so, when? [/*]

He has been deployed. On his myspace there are some comments from his wife in like 2007 saying she can't wait to see him...

caejde

03-19-2008, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by caejde

He has been deployed. On his myspace there are some comments from his wife in like 2007 saying she can't wait to see him... [/*]

The comments from his wife started February 2007 and ended September 2007-no more comments since then. So, 7 months. That's the length of being on ship. So he's probably a grunt or in a grunt unit to be on ship.

caejde

03-19-2008, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by Lyn_T

He posted his deployment email on Apr 23rd and Marines usually pull a 7 month tour so that would have put him back in Nov/Dec timeframe. Our son is Army and he was there 16 months....same area. [/*]

Right but I was commenting on his wife's comments started in February and ended in September. Still 7 months. And he was on ship it seems-at least from his pictures he posted.

GentleBreeze

03-19-2008, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by caejde

The comments from his wife started February 2007 and ended September 2007-no more comments since then. So, 7 months. That's the length of being on ship. So he's probably a grunt or in a grunt unit to be on ship. [/*]

He could be with New River and be with a aircraft expeditionary unit as an aircraft mechanic etc. for the Harrier or all the other helicopters such as the 53s, 46s, Cobras etc.

These guys are on ship deployments too for about this long and fly to land and then back to ship.

imoo

caejde

03-19-2008, 01:12 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

He could be with New River and be with a aircraft expeditionary unit as an aircraft mechanic etc. for the Harrier or all the other helicopters such as the 53s, 46s, Cobras etc.

These guys are on ship deployments too for about this long and fly to land and then back to ship.

imoo [/*]

That's true too...wasn't even thinking Air Wing side. I know my husband did his 7 month "pumps". Did a few of them.

henry

03-19-2008, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by strick10

Not only that henry but the depth in color also is dependent on how many coats are applied and the type of paint applicator is used. Some applicators apply the paint heavier than others. Being that the wall was probably white to begin with it would take more than just one coat to cover it or a thicker application. I'm sure you already know this, I was just adding. [/*]

lol! the primary determinant is the paint brand (i'll pm you with the best one for dark colors) . . . as well as tinting the primer the same color (or a shade darker) :cool:

strick10

03-19-2008, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by caejde

That's true too...wasn't even thinking Air Wing side. I know my husband did his 7 month "pumps". Did a few of them. [/*]

Could be any MOS really. Support, wing, grunt. Marines support their own deployments. When I was on ship we had enough of all the MOS's required to complete the mission. In my case we had 3 ships on the deployment each w/ a different capability.

crymeariver2006

03-19-2008, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by Sami
So do the experts agree that he seemed to be around in December? TIA [/*]

Or January? The 11th to be exact.

GentleBreeze

03-19-2008, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by AnnieBean

because of infection, or for pain control? Or neither? Hope not too nosey, just concerned. [/*]

Well her husband just called and they are going to keep her overnight at least.

She has had antibiotics in the vein,starting last Saturday and was put on high dosage of Cipro by mouth. She still has massive swelling in her leg and her ankle and toes began to swell yesterday. The red streaks are still there and have progressed beyond the area they had marked off Monday.

The doctors said they may have to go back in and open up the wounds again.:(

imoo

GentleBreeze

03-19-2008, 01:23 PM

Originally posted by Lyn_T

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/tay972/cesardelgado.gif [/*]

OMG! IMO he looks more like the guy at the ATM than Laurean.:eek:

Regina.Lampert

03-19-2008, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

Well her husband just called and they are going to keep her overnight at least.

She has had antibiotics in the vein,starting last Saturday and was put on high dosage of Cipro by mouth. She still has massive swelling in her leg and her ankle and toes began to swell yesterday. The red streaks are still there and have progressed beyond the area they had marked off Monday.

The doctors said they may have to go back in and open up the wounds again.:(

imoo [/*]

Prayers still going up for her GB and I think it's very good that they hospitalized her. This way she can get round the clock IV's and constant observation.

crymeariver2006

03-19-2008, 01:28 PM

Lynn Gweeny

03-19-2008, 01:32 PM

Originally posted by Lyn_T

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/tay972/cesardelgado.gif [/*]

Lyn, can you also put THIS ONE (http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q24/lynngweenytoo/Maria%20Lauterbach/21727689_l.jpg) side by side with the ATM photo? This photo has him wearing a hat pulled down similarly to the cap in the ATM video. TIA

GentleBreeze

03-19-2008, 01:32 PM

Thank you everyone who has shown concern about our daughter.

I tell her she has many people from so many different places that have her in their thoughts and prayers.

Thank goodness she has very good insurance and her job is secure. They have been wonderful to her and I know it has released her stress somewhat because she is never out. Just shows how things can change in a blnk of an eye. She had been around her friend's dog for over a year and she is such an animal lover.

Now back on topic. I am floored by the picture now...just floored.

imoo

Janz

03-19-2008, 01:33 PM

Janz

03-19-2008, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny

Lyn, can you also put THIS ONE (http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q24/lynngweenytoo/Maria%20Lauterbach/21727689_l.jpg) side by side with the ATM photo? This photo has him wearing a hat pulled down similarly to the cap in the ATM video. TIA [/*]

The one on the right in lyn_t`s post, has the same tilt to his head as the one at the atm. Hmmm.

hinman

03-19-2008, 01:38 PM

Wow, I was one of the ones who thought it was CL in the ATM photo but now I am having doubts after seeing that pic.

GentleBreeze

03-19-2008, 01:39 PM

Originally posted by AnnieBean

hope not cellulitis...best wishes to her.

To your DD: Enjoy your time getting breakfast in bed, little breeze, such as it is.....:D [/*]

:biggrin: She has been treated like a Queen but she is so special to so many.......she deserves every bit of it because if it happened to anyone of us she would be right there fussing over us too. lol

Her hubby said they have sedated her again because of the pain so I am going to wait until my hubby gets in so he can go up there with me.........now she loves her moma bunches but she is a daddy's girl through and through. lol

imoo

hinman

03-19-2008, 01:42 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

:biggrin: She has been treated like a Queen but she is so special to so many.......she deserves every bit of it because if it happened to anyone of us she would be right there fussing over us too. lol

Her hubby said they have sedated her again because of the pain so I am going to wait until my hubby gets in so he can go up there with me.........now she loves her moma bunches but she is a daddy's girl through and through. lol

imoo [/*]I am still praying for her GB:rose:

Lynn Gweeny

03-19-2008, 01:46 PM

Originally posted by Lyn_T

Here ya go,
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/tay972/atmdelgado-1.gif [/*]

:seeya: Thank you so much, Lyn.

strick10

03-19-2008, 01:49 PM

Originally posted by hinman
Wow, I was one of the ones who thought it was CL in the ATM photo but now I am having doubts after seeing that pic. [/*]

Sure does make you look twice. I've always thought it wasn't CL because of the tattoo not peeking out from the sleeve like I think it should have and the build. If you look at LynTs comparison pic notice that that a hand appears on the lower right hand corner. Either this person approaching the teller has rubber arms that was able to reach all the way to the edge of the teller (to me the hand and body seem to be too far away from each other). I think that hand by the teller is someone elses who squeezed between the teller and the glass wall. Kinda hard to say for sure though.

caejde

03-19-2008, 01:59 PM

What if the person leaving the house that was in his "Marine outfit" as the Alanders put it was this guy here....Jose? And if that's the case, then Cesar really did get a good head start...for all we know he could have left much earlier than 4 am.

strick10

03-19-2008, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by Lyn_T
Back to the Delgado/Laurean marriages and houses.

In looking at their dates seems as if Delgado bought his home in Aug 06, Laurean in Oct 06.

Delgado married on 4/3/05 and Laurean on 8/13/05.

Seems to me these guys were friends for a few years. Yep, I am beginning to think I might have found one of my own missing links this am. JMO [/*]

Could very well be. Even if Delgado wasn't in CALs unit and didn't get off at noon that day he would've most likely gotten off at 1630 and would've been home around 5 - 5:15ish. Hmmmm.

henry

03-19-2008, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by Lyn_T
Back to the Delgado/Laurean marriages and houses.

In looking at their dates seems as if Delgado bought his home in Aug 06, Laurean in Oct 06.

Delgado married on 4/3/05 and Laurean on 8/13/05.

Seems to me these guys were friends for a few years. Yep, I am beginning to think I might have found one of my own missing links this am. JMO [/*]

i hope i speak for others and those that are watching/reading this dance unfold, you are friggin' incredible!!! :patriot:

edit: gbreeze . . . please bring these to your sweetheart :rose: :rose:

strick10

03-19-2008, 02:02 PM

Originally posted by caejde
What if the person leaving the house that was in his "Marine outfit" as the Alanders put it was this guy here....Jose? And if that's the case, then Cesar really did get a good head start...for all we know he could have left much earlier than 4 am. [/*]

You could be right caejde. And if Wanda says she saw him at 6:30 that a.m. it would be easy to mistake Delgado for Cesar as it was most likely dark at 6:30 during that time of the year.

caejde

03-19-2008, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by strick10

You could be right caejde. And if Wanda says she saw him at 6:30 that a.m. it would be easy to mistake Delgado for Cesar as it was most likely dark at 6:30 during that time of the year. [/*]

Sun is just getting ready to rise if I'm not mistaken. Nelkirk posted in yesterday's thread on the last page that on the 15th of December the sun rose around 6:30 am.

caejde

03-19-2008, 02:10 PM

Wonder if Capt. Sutherland or any of the other detectives have spoken with this Jose guy.

gaelicpeas

03-19-2008, 02:12 PM

In this pic Lyn posted earlier:

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/tay972/atmdelgado.gif

it seems to me that whoever is standing there also has something in his right hand (not the hand with the rag). And it doesn't look like an ATM card to me as it extends on both sides of his hand.

Lynn Gweeny

03-19-2008, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by Sami

The neighbor also said she saw Christina and 'Cesar'? sitting and talking outside, with Cesar pacing around, on Thursday evening.

Other than that sighting (which might not be Cesar - could have been Jose talking to Christina to get their plans right for the big moment the next day).

If that were true, then Cesar could have left after the lawyer visit Thursday morning. I doubt Jose could have fooled the lawyer, too, although I've always had suspicions about his taking off work all week and just phoning in every day.

All of this is JMO. [/*]

The night before, the Alanders saw their next-door neighbors sitting on their front porch. She didn’t think much of it at the time, but Wanda said she noticed Cesar kept walking into the backyard.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/o/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/homefront/entries/2008/01/21/slain_marines_m.html

strick10

03-19-2008, 02:14 PM

Originally posted by Sami

The neighbor also said she saw Christina and 'Cesar'? sitting and talking outside, with Cesar pacing around, on Thursday evening.

Other than that sighting (which might not be Cesar - could have been Jose talking to Christina to get their plans right for the big moment the next day).

If that were true, then Cesar could have left after the lawyer visit Thursday morning. I doubt Jose could have fooled the lawyer, too, although I've always had suspicions about his taking off work all week and just phoning in every day.

All of this is JMO. [/*]

He could have very well left after the lawyers visit. Grrrr, so many could ofs that make perfect logical sense. I would think Jose wouldn't fool the lawyer.

gaelicpeas

03-19-2008, 02:20 PM

Does anybody have the pic of the ATM that Nuttin took? I have forgotten what this ATM looks like - as in, is there room for somebody to stand off to the side and put that rag up there...

TIA

strick10

03-19-2008, 02:21 PM

Originally posted by Sami

Assuming it was a lawyer with whom he'd met before.

Parramore said he had never met Cesar. . . .IMO [/*]

If Parramore met w/ christina and jose vice cesar.....someone deserves an oscar. .

caejde

03-19-2008, 02:21 PM

Originally posted by strick10

He could have very well left after the lawyers visit. Grrrr, so many could ofs that make perfect logical sense. I would think Jose wouldn't fool the lawyer. [/*]

He could have left after the lawyers visit on that Thursday. We don't know what time the visit was or how long it lasted. Surely LE has found out though. So, it is very possible he left after that lawyer's visit.

If this guy Jose helped him in anyway...not saying he did just a big if at this point...he is stupid and gives the Marine Corps a bad name too. I'm sorry, I know Marines are supposed to have each others back...but not for rape, murder, or any other heinous crime.

caejde

03-19-2008, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
Does anybody have the pic of the ATM that Nuttin took? I have forgotten what this ATM looks like - as in, is there room for somebody to stand off to the side and put that rag up there...

TIA [/*]

I don't but I will be driving by there tonight. I can take a look and see if there is room for a second person.

gaelicpeas

03-19-2008, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny

Exactly, Lyn. If the one person (pictured) was using his left hand to put the cloth over the camera, the angle of the hand with the thumb UP isn't how a left hand would appear. It appears that the hand holding the cloth is someone's RIGHT hand.

Experiment bringing your left hand across your body and having to twist the hand to get the thumb in the upward position and how it contorts your body to get that left hand across. That's why I think Lyn's theory is spot on, since the person in the video has no body contortion going on ... it's relaxed and holding something in the right hand. JMO [/*]

Yes, I agree... and if you were standing to the side of the ATM, you would have to contort your arm even more to be in that position. The thumb would have to be up for it to be a left hand, IMO.

gaelicpeas

03-19-2008, 02:24 PM

Originally posted by caejde

I don't but I will be driving by there tonight. I can take a look and see if there is room for a second person. [/*]

I think it may be on the links thread - I will go look now... brb

henry

03-19-2008, 02:26 PM

am i just not with it today & hate to go back to painting . . . but after watching that video, i had assumed they painted with the caramel brown color . . . but the garage was painted with white paint . . . correct?

Lynn Gweeny

03-19-2008, 02:29 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

I think it may be on the links thread - I will go look now... brb [/*]

Here's where Lyn posted her pics yesterday:

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?postid=11397038#post11397038

gaelicpeas

03-19-2008, 02:30 PM

Well, I found Nuttin's links on page 4 of the links thread... and she has 2 pics listed there of this ATM. But, when I tried to open them, it said I needed a username and password for photobucket. Which is odd, because I know I was able to see them before...

caejde

03-19-2008, 02:31 PM

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny

Here's where Lyn posted her pics yesterday:

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?postid=11397038#post11397038 [/*]

But Cesar didn't use the ATM at the Lowe's parking lot. He used it further up on Western where Western/Gumbranch intersect.

Lynn Gweeny

03-19-2008, 02:35 PM

Originally posted by caejde

But Cesar didn't use the ATM at the Lowe's parking lot. He used it further up on Western where Western/Gumbranch intersect. [/*]

Thanks, caejde. I wasn't sure and recalled the most recent photos that Lyn posted. I'm having the same problem seeing the photos that nuttin posted on the links thread like gaelicpeas posted. Clicking them takes you to the home page of photobucket.

caejde

03-19-2008, 02:36 PM

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny

Thanks, caejde. I wasn't sure and recalled the most recent photos that Lyn posted. I'm having the same problem seeing the photos that nuttin posted on the links thread. Clicking them takes you to the home page of photobucket. [/*]

I'm having the same problem. I even logged into my account and it still didn't come up.

Like I said, I'm going by that ATM tonight and I can take a look and try to take pictures if I remember.

gaelicpeas

03-19-2008, 02:41 PM

lol - I had so many links open, my computer froze and I had to reboot!

Thanks for the link, Lynn, and thanks, Caejde, for checking out the ATM machine tonight.

SavannahStar

03-19-2008, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

Well her husband just called and they are going to keep her overnight at least.

She has had antibiotics in the vein,starting last Saturday and was put on high dosage of Cipro by mouth. She still has massive swelling in her leg and her ankle and toes began to swell yesterday. The red streaks are still there and have progressed beyond the area they had marked off Monday.

The doctors said they may have to go back in and open up the wounds again.:(

imoo [/*]

Just parachuting in here today....crazy busy at work.....

I am SO sorry, GB. I am praying for your family and especially your daughter. God bless.

:rose:

donna

03-19-2008, 03:18 PM

Hello, everyone!

I just caught reading yesterday's and last nights posts. Such a great discussion. So many great links.

Article/media reports have been varying in facts. It almost depends on which you choose to believe!

:rose: For GB's daughter.

donna

03-19-2008, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by Sami

Yes, and makes me wonder if LE knows about the color of the walls, too.

Might be smart for someone to let them know? JMO [/*]

Hi, Sami!

I think it would be! JMO, tho!

donna

03-19-2008, 03:36 PM

I would find it hard to believe that CAL could do such a horrific murder, dig the fire pit, have bonfires over Maria and Gabriel's bodies, and go to work as usual on the days following the murder without confiding in someone. Or even having too much to drink and confiding in a friend!

donna

03-19-2008, 03:42 PM

:shrug:

Where did everyone go? I wasn't meaning to get the discussion off track by popping in!

I wish there were more news!

donna

03-19-2008, 03:44 PM

Originally posted by AnnieBean

**Super Sleuth of the Year** nominee, Lyn T!!! [/*]

Absolutely!.... :)

hinman

03-19-2008, 03:46 PM

Originally posted by donna
:shrug:

Where did everyone go? I wasn't meaning to get the discussion off track by popping in!

I wish there were more news! [/*]Hi donna

I wish there was more news also but I am not counting on it since Sutherland said he was told they were going to tighten up on that part. :mad:

been a busy day here so I have been in and out and Lyn_T has done a great job with the links. Thanks.

donna

03-19-2008, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by AnnieBean
whats new donna? how bout that new pic comparison, what do you think? [/*]

Hi, AnnieBean!

IMO, I believe that it was CAL at the ATM and that someone was with him. The hand covering the camera seems slender to me and am thinking it may be Christina's!

donna

03-19-2008, 03:50 PM

Originally posted by hinman
Hi donna

I wish there was more news also but I am not counting on it since Sutherland said he was told they were going to tighten up on that part. :mad:

been a busy day here so I have been in and out and Lyn_T has done a great job with the links. Thanks. [/*]

Hi, hinman!.....:)

I am disappionted that there will not be more answers from Captain Sutherland.

:patriot: .... LynT!

donna

03-19-2008, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by AnnieBean

!

Whoever it was has alot of cahones because they had no idea how wide of a lens that ATM camera had- why not just slip on a
ski mask or something? That plus the rag=avoid all doubt? :shrug: [/*]

Exactly!

donna

03-19-2008, 03:58 PM

There seems to be a lull here on the board.

I am not trying to open a new can of worms, but there was a link to a pic showing what looked like a blue teddy bear in the back window of Maria's car, IIRC.

We have the teddy bear (IIRC), the article of baby clothing found in the melted bag in the fire pit, and a charred comforter. I am wondering if it could have been a baby comforter given that there was the items mentioned above.

The comforter was 'charred'. Maria's legs may not have been wrapped in the comforter as a baby comforter would be small.

martha

03-19-2008, 03:58 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

Well her husband just called and they are going to keep her overnight at least.

She has had antibiotics in the vein,starting last Saturday and was put on high dosage of Cipro by mouth. She still has massive swelling in her leg and her ankle and toes began to swell yesterday. The red streaks are still there and have progressed beyond the area they had marked off Monday.

The doctors said they may have to go back in and open up the wounds again.:(

imoo [/*] I will keep praying for your daughter and your family sure sounds like she is having a bad time of it. I know your sweetie is being strong for you all. Keep us posted to what is going on with her. :rose: :rose: to you and your family

donna

03-19-2008, 04:00 PM

Originally posted by Lyn_T

:lol:
This has been eating at me since the day that video came out. I never will forget the day they 1st announced she was missing and the 1st words out of mouth was "He killed her".

I feel like CL had both male and female help in this one. I also feel like CSL had a hand in it. IMO, but proving it - now that is another chapter.

We have a wounded vet here who came to close to a rape investigation in Iraq as one of the investigators and someone attempted to put her lights out. Only not Marines but soldier against soldier. So this has captured my full attention from day one. [/*]

Lyn_T, I feel that CAL had both male and female help here also. I am looking forward to your posts and theory!

:beer:

hinman

03-19-2008, 04:00 PM

Originally posted by Sami
I just don't think Cesar would have attempted something so stupid, since he knew he was on that MPO, as being the guy to walk up to the atm.

I mean, IF Cesar acted totally alone, do ya'll realize how incredibly lucky he has been throughout it all? Inclluding the get away?

My former Marine/LE S.O. has said from Day One: Laurean had help. (JHO) [/*]Hi Sami.
So do you believe that this was planned then? I think for him to have help it would of been planned.

strick10

03-19-2008, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by Sami
I just don't think Cesar would have attempted something so stupid, since he knew he was on that MPO, as being the guy to walk up to the atm.

I mean, IF Cesar acted totally alone, do ya'll realize how incredibly lucky he has been throughout it all? Inclluding the get away?

My former Marine/LE S.O. has said from Day One: Laurean had help. (JHO) [/*]

I also feel he had help. Trying to put the puzzle together is impossible at this point to prove or to even somewhat prove this.

donna

03-19-2008, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by strick10

I also feel he had help. Trying to put the puzzle together is impossible at this point to prove or to even somewhat prove this. [/*]

Sami, there are too many missing pieces of this puzzle as in information LE has that we are not privy to. I cannot put a good theory together because of the missing pieces. What happened in the murder of Maria and Gabriel may never really be known, but I do not think for onr moment that Christina was not somehow involved either during or after.

hinman

03-19-2008, 04:13 PM

Originally posted by AnnieBean

You know, you are so right. And thats why I iwsh the ME had written in more detail something that we would have been priovvy to- notes describing the comforter (FULL size bed comforter, twin size, childs blanket, etc?) and more detail or at least more clarity regarding the clothig- "on her"- was she wearing it and some of it was burned away? Or was it off of her?
What else was in the pit? What happened to her pants? Was she found in the grey swetshirt like in the ATM video?
Grrr. I need details!! [/*]I wonder if they found CL clothes from that day. They probably don't know what he was wearing but if there was blood on the ceiling I am willing to bet there was blood on his shoes, and clothing.

SavannahStar

03-19-2008, 04:15 PM

Originally posted by Lyn_T

I feel like CL had both male and female help in this one. I also feel like CSL had a hand in it. IMO, but proving it - now that is another chapter.

*snipped*

[/*]

As far as CSL, I disagree with you.......but, that being said, I absolutely believe that IF that is true, LE will have NO problem proving it.

So if it doesn't get proven, it's not true. IMO.

Guess we have to wait and find out.

donna

03-19-2008, 04:16 PM

Originally posted by AnnieBean

You know, you are so right. And thats why I iwsh the ME had written in more detail something that we would have been priovvy to- notes describing the comforter (FULL size bed comforter, twin size, childs blanket, etc?) and more detail or at least more clarity regarding the clothig- "on her"- was she wearing it and some of it was burned away? Or was it off of her?
What else was in the pit? What happened to her pants? Was she found in the grey swetshirt like in the ATM video?
Grrr. I need details!! [/*]

Hi, strick10!

I think we all assumed that it was a large comforter. A baby comforter would not have covered Maria entirely.

I know how you feel! The wording in the autopsy report actually raises questions that we are not going to be privy to the answers of. LE definately knows, and are not going to tell us!

donna

03-19-2008, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by AnnieBean

ITA donna [/*]

Thank you, Annie.

None of this makes sense! Your theories are good ones, tho!

donna

03-19-2008, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

I don't think Christina is involved at all. I believe LE would have plenty by now to have charged her if she was. I don't believe we will ever see her charged. If they don't have enough now, she wasn't involved.

jmoo [/*]

Not jumping into this particular can of worms!

SavannahStar

03-19-2008, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

I don't think he planned this or had help unless he called someone in after the murder. The guy at Lowe's must have checked out ok. I just think he did this by himself from beginning to end. No charges on anyone else yet. imo [/*]

I agree.

donna

03-19-2008, 04:29 PM

Originally posted by Lyn_T

I am of the thinking it was a full size comforter, maybe one CSL had from her yard sale in the garage. The baby clothes I am still out on...again, I have a feeling they might have been some from yard sale items also (maybe in a ziplock bag or a plastic bag). Need to know if they were new. Nothing about that in autopsy report.

What I have been able to piece together here and just my observation from what is reported only:
ML kia'd on Dec 14th
CL borrowed shovel around 16th
That leaves 2 days from time she was kia'd till time he got something to dig with.
The pool cover being torn loose makes me wonder if he dumped her there until he could dig a pit/hole. (In the CNN flyover pic the day they found her you can see where it is loose, my 1st thought.)

The neighbors reported they saw CL with her car during this time. The vultures were seen in the Crepe Myrtle etc. Greta went under the deck at the pool, but did anyone ever pull the liner back to check? Please don't laugh, but I always think outside the box and sometimes am wayyyy off base.

Then the for sale sign in the back of the car window. I wonder who's phone number that is and hand writing.

I just have too many ?'s hammer hammer [/*]

Lnn_T, did you notice that area underneath where Greta was looking? It looked very odd, IMO. What do you think may have made those indentations on the grass?

donna

03-19-2008, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by AnnieBean

Yes, catalystina.:D [/*]

:D

donna

03-19-2008, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by Lyn_T

Drip lines from the deck above her head. [/*]

Thanks! It just looked very odd to me.

nuttintodo

03-19-2008, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
Well, I found Nuttin's links on page 4 of the links thread... and she has 2 pics listed there of this ATM. But, when I tried to open them, it said I needed a username and password for photobucket. Which is odd, because I know I was able to see them before... [/*]

I haven't been home long and I'm trying to catch up and saw your request gp.

Here's the one of Maria at the ATM: http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a334/Nuttintodo/screenhunter_03jan2313102.gif

And here are the one's I took: (front view) http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a334/Nuttintodo/DV128.jpg

(Looking back towards the truck) http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a334/Nuttintodo/DV126.jpg

caejde

03-19-2008, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by Lyn_T

Drip lines from the deck above her head. [/*]

I'm confused?

donna

03-19-2008, 04:37 PM

Originally posted by old_lady

:lol: [/*]

:)

strick10

03-19-2008, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by Sami

The close proximity of good buddy Jose's house could have been the perfect spot to park Maria's car.

I wonder if Melissa has been closely questioned by LE. I'm assuming Jose has been. [/*]

Sure would be nice to know if Jose has been interviewed.

caejde

03-19-2008, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by AnnieBean

the indentations in the dirt around the edge of the wooden deck in their backyard- they are drip troughs from water runoff on the deck. thats all. they are visible in a picture and the greta video. [/*]

Oh, ok...thanks!

strick10

03-19-2008, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by caejde

I'm confused? [/*]

So am I. They kinda looked like some type of tire track(s) to me.

strick10

03-19-2008, 04:42 PM

Wasn't it stated that Christina had taken vacation for two weeks or two weeks prior to murder? Does anyone remember this?

caejde

03-19-2008, 04:43 PM

Originally posted by Lyn_T

I am of the thinking it was a full size comforter, maybe one CSL had from her yard sale in the garage. The baby clothes I am still out on...again, I have a feeling they might have been some from yard sale items also (maybe in a ziplock bag or a plastic bag). Need to know if they were new. Nothing about that in autopsy report.

What I have been able to piece together here and just my observation from what is reported only:
ML kia'd on Dec 14th
CL borrowed shovel around 16th
That leaves 2 days from time she was kia'd till time he got something to dig with.
The pool cover being torn loose makes me wonder if he dumped her there until he could dig a pit/hole. (In the CNN flyover pic the day they found her you can see where it is loose, my 1st thought.)

The neighbors reported they saw CL with her car during this time. The vultures were seen in the Crepe Myrtle etc. Greta went under the deck at the pool, but did anyone ever pull the liner back to check? Please don't laugh, but I always think outside the box and sometimes am wayyyy off base.

Then the for sale sign in the back of the car window. I wonder who's phone number that is and hand writing.

I just have too many ?'s hammer hammer [/*]

To dig a temporary place to put Maria, he very well could have used his e-tool. Digging with those takes a lot of work but very possible he used that to begin with until he could borrow the neighbors shovel.

Someone from the sheriffs department, I believe, answered the questions about the for sale sign. He said it was Maria's cell phone number listed and it was being sent off for hand writing analysis. I think nuttintodo got the answers to those questions.

caejde

03-19-2008, 04:44 PM

Originally posted by strick10

So am I. They kinda looked like some type of tire track(s) to me. [/*]

I just don't remember the picture I guess...

crymeariver2006

03-19-2008, 04:45 PM

Originally posted by Lyn_T
Does anyone have the 1st copy of that ATM video saved before it was cut? I have always thought there were 2 and to the extent I sent RS an email to that effect the day it came out. I think they know there were 2 there also.

The still picture of the full face is CL I think. In the original posting of the ATM video with the rag (where I see 2 right hands) it showed them walking away only to have CL walk back up almost immediately and try again w/out the 2nd person. I need that video Please if anyone has it. [/*]

IIRC, the video of Maria at the ATM looked (originally) like she walked back to the ATM, but she didn't. It is on a loop and would be repeating the same sequence of shots.

That could be what you were seeing.

SavannahStar

03-19-2008, 04:46 PM

Originally posted by strick10
Wasn't it stated that Christina had taken vacation for two weeks or two weeks prior to murder? Does anyone remember this? [/*]

Vaguely. Not sure if the word "vacation" was used. I just sorta remember "out of town." :shrug:

gaelicpeas

03-19-2008, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

I haven't been home long and I'm trying to catch up and saw your request gp.

Here's the one of Maria at the ATM: http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a334/Nuttintodo/screenhunter_03jan2313102.gif

And here are the one's I took: (front view) http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a334/Nuttintodo/DV128.jpg

(Looking back towards the truck) http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a334/Nuttintodo/DV126.jpg [/*]

Thanks, Nuttin!

strick10

03-19-2008, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by caejde

To dig a temporary place to put Maria, he very well could have used his e-tool. Digging with those takes a lot of work but very possible he used that to begin with until he could borrow the neighbors shovel.

Someone from the sheriffs department, I believe, answered the questions about the for sale sign. He said it was Maria's cell phone number listed and it was being sent off for hand writing analysis. I think nuttintodo got the answers to those questions. [/*]

Yup, could've used his e-tool. He wouldn't have dug very deep in the time alloted before Christina came home though. E-tools are not only alot of work but produce results slowly. It takes forever just to dig a trench around a tent let alone a hole. Don't know if you had to do this when you were in the field.

nuttintodo

03-19-2008, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

Thanks, Nuttin! [/*]

My photobucket is set to private because I have family photos, etc. there. I'm in the process of making another album which will include all the photos that I have taken, plus ones that I have acquired too and this album will be public so no one will get the screen asking for a password.

jmo

gaelicpeas

03-19-2008, 04:51 PM

Nuttin - if you are still here, can you post your pics of the ATM CL used? TIA!

donna

03-19-2008, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by Sami

You've been missed today, Nuttin. :seeya: [/*]

:seeya: .... Yes, you have!

strick10

03-19-2008, 04:54 PM

Originally posted by AnnieBean

I remember we discussed her being away for a period of time prior to the murder. At first we thought she was still out of town when the murder occured. But that turned out to not be the case and she has not gone on any "two week vacations" since then, that we are aware of. JMO [/*]

Thanks AnnieB. Wanted to make sure that I just hadn't thought this in my head that it had been brought up before. Maybe this is when contact resumed between Maria and CAL. Maybe CAL was trying to sweeten up Maria. JMO though. I think Maria would not have so easily gone to CALs on the 14th if that had been the day they had first had verbal contact since the rape allegations had been filed. I think he had been working on gaining Marias confidence and what a perfect time to resume contact....if the wifes eyes and ears were out of the area. JMO

caejde

03-19-2008, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by strick10

Yup, could've used his e-tool. He wouldn't have dug very deep in the time alloted before Christina came home though. E-tools are not only alot of work but produce results slowly. It takes forever just to dig a trench around a tent let alone a hole. Don't know if you had to do this when you were in the field. [/*]

Yea, have had to use the etool to dig...not fun at all...especially to dig a fighting hole! He wouldn't have needed one very big...just enough to cover a body-a foot or so deep. Would have definitely made his timeline a little tighter though. And that is why I'm wondering if she was really killed the 14th. I know LE says 'yes' but if she was, why not go get the shovel on the 15th? Why leave Maria stashed somewhere-pool, the treeline at the end of the property, or anywhere until the 16th. He had no idea if she told someone she was coming to his house.

donna

03-19-2008, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by strick10

Thanks AnnieB. Wanted to make sure that I just hadn't thought this in my head that it had been brought up before. Maybe this is when contact resumed between Maria and CAL. Maybe CAL was trying to sweeten up Maria. JMO though. I think Maria would not have so easily gone to CALs on the 14th if that had been the day they had first had verbal contact since the rape allegations had been filed. I think he had been working on gaining Marias confidence and what a perfect time to resume contact....if the wifes eyes and ears were out of the area. JMO [/*]

I very much agree, strick10!

IvySterling

03-19-2008, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by AnnieBean

I think we thought she was at her sisters? Does that sound right? [/*]
Richard Alander was the one who said in his video interview that he didn't recall seeing Christina the first part of December, BUT, saw her car there.

There was specultion by some (incl. me) that perhaps she had been staying with her sister.

caejde

03-19-2008, 04:58 PM

strick10

03-19-2008, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by caejde

Yea, have had to use the etool to dig...not fun at all...especially to dig a fighting hole! He wouldn't have needed one very big...just enough to cover a body-a foot or so deep. Would have definitely made his timeline a little tighter though. And that is why I'm wondering if she was really killed the 14th. I know LE says 'yes' but if she was, why not go get the shovel on the 15th? Why leave Maria stashed somewhere-pool, the treeline at the end of the property, or anywhere until the 16th. He had no idea if she told someone she was coming to his house. [/*]

Doesn't make any sense does it. I was under the assumption that CSL was at work on the 15th so that would've made more sense to bury her then and not on the 16th.

IvySterling

03-19-2008, 05:01 PM

Having power outage problems in my area due to construction so will post this while I can.

After viewing Jose's MySpace photos I noticed that his wife wears glasses very similar to the ones Maria wore (wire framed).

This means nothing, just thought it was interesting, and also interesting that one of the friends has a photo of herself in a Sports Bra with her Cammie bottoms. Do most the gals in the Military wear Sports Bra's :shrug:

donna

03-19-2008, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by caejde

Wonder if Cesar and Christina were having problems? Like, maybe she finally realized he was lying to her all along. [/*]

It would also make sense that Christina's car would be in the driveway if she and Abrianna had flown to see her parents. CAL could have driven them to the airport.

Who knows, caejde.

gaelicpeas

03-19-2008, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by caejde

Yea, have had to use the etool to dig...not fun at all...especially to dig a fighting hole! He wouldn't have needed one very big...just enough to cover a body-a foot or so deep. Would have definitely made his timeline a little tighter though. And that is why I'm wondering if she was really killed the 14th. I know LE says 'yes' but if she was, why not go get the shovel on the 15th? Why leave Maria stashed somewhere-pool, the treeline at the end of the property, or anywhere until the 16th. He had no idea if she told someone she was coming to his house. [/*]

I agree... I have always thought it possible that maybe ML went somewhere, like a motel, for a couple of days.... or, I have also considered that she was held hostage in CL's house...

caejde

03-19-2008, 05:03 PM

Originally posted by IvySterling
Having power outage problems in my area due to construction so will post this while I can.

After viewing Jose's MySpace photos I noticed that his wife wears glasses very similar to the ones Maria wore (wire framed).

This means nothing, just thought it was interesting, and also interesting that one of the friends has a photo of herself in a Sports Bra with her Cammie bottoms. Do most the gals in the Military wear Sports Bra's :shrug: [/*]

I did but I worked in a warehouse and it was just more comfortable to me. As for that pic...just not something that should be done!

IvySterling

03-19-2008, 05:03 PM

Originally posted by donna

It would also make sense that Christina's car would be in the driveway if she and Abrianna had flown to see her parents. CAL could have driven them to the airport.

Who knows, caejde. [/*]
But, IIRC it was stated that Christina had not been on leave during December.

caejde

03-19-2008, 05:04 PM

Originally posted by strick10

Doesn't make any sense does it. I was under the assumption that CSL was at work on the 15th so that would've made more sense to bury her then and not on the 16th. [/*]

See Christina's parents are the ones that said Christina was at work when the murder happened-the 15th. Now, that was before LE came out and said Maria was killed the 14th. I'm just wondering how do they know for sure she was killed the 14th and not the 15th?

strick10

03-19-2008, 05:04 PM

Originally posted by IvySterling

Richard Alander was the one who said in his video interview that he didn't recall seeing Christina the first part of December, BUT, saw her car there.

There was specultion by some (incl. me) that perhaps she had been staying with her sister. [/*]

But if she was staying w/ her sister there in J'ville why not take her car? I think maybe Christina flew to Ohio to visit family. Cesar went to NV from 4-13 November it wouldn't make sense for him to drive and loose all that time driving that he could be spending w/ family, he probably flew. Christina probably did hte same.

caejde

03-19-2008, 05:05 PM

caejde

03-19-2008, 05:07 PM

Originally posted by strick10

But if she was staying w/ her sister there in J'ville why not take her car? I think maybe Christina flew to Ohio to visit family. Cesar went to NV from 4-13 November it wouldn't make sense for him to drive and loose all that time driving that he could be spending w/ family, he probably flew. Christina probably did hte same. [/*]

But why not drive her own car? Because by depending on Cesar or your sister, you would have to schedule flights based on their getting off work.

crymeariver2006

03-19-2008, 05:07 PM

Are ya'll still waiting around to send this stuff to Sutherland?

I think it should be sent by someone who has already established a "relationship" of sorts with him. Won't mention any names but the initials "nuttin" comes to mind.

:D

Not sure about Jose taking part in the murder or burial. The whole throwing the baby clothes in the pit just seems so "woman" to me. Like "take that, you __________". Just sayin....

BUT having said that, I've always said that Cesar (if he's still alive) left way earlier than Christina led police to believe. Maybe Jose dropped him off in Raleigh and then went back to the Laureans house and that's who the neighbor saw at 6:30 in the "marine outfit".

strick10

03-19-2008, 05:08 PM

Originally posted by IvySterling
Having power outage problems in my area due to construction so will post this while I can.

After viewing Jose's MySpace photos I noticed that his wife wears glasses very similar to the ones Maria wore (wire framed).

This means nothing, just thought it was interesting, and also interesting that one of the friends has a photo of herself in a Sports Bra with her Cammie bottoms. Do most the gals in the Military wear Sports Bra's :shrug: [/*]

Don't know about most military gals wearing sports bras....If that person is a Marine, shame on her for having a picture like that of her on a public page. May be old fashioned but a woman in a bra, sports or not, in partial uniform does not send out the appropriate message. JMO!

caejde

03-19-2008, 05:11 PM

Originally posted by strick10

Don't know about most military gals wearing sports bras....If that person is a Marine, shame on her for having a picture like that of her on a public page. May be old fashioned but a woman in a bra, sports or not, in partial uniform does not send out the appropriate message. JMO! [/*]

You're not old fashioned. At least if you're going to take pics like that, keep it private!

strick10

03-19-2008, 05:11 PM

Originally posted by caejde

See Christina's parents are the ones that said Christina was at work when the murder happened-the 15th. Now, that was before LE came out and said Maria was killed the 14th. I'm just wondering how do they know for sure she was killed the 14th and not the 15th? [/*]

LE may be basing the 14th due to that was the last day there is any known contact w/ Maria. *Sigh*

gaelicpeas

03-19-2008, 05:12 PM

Didn't the neighbor say that she saw CSL talking to CL in his truck or something that morning?

SavannahStar

03-19-2008, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by AnnieBean

Is photobucket hard to use? [/*]

Not at all. It's wonderful!

IvySterling

03-19-2008, 05:13 PM

caejde

03-19-2008, 05:13 PM

Originally posted by strick10

LE may be basing the 14th due to that was the last day there is any known contact w/ Maria. *Sigh* [/*]

So in all reality, she could have been killed 15th, 16th...oh geez. I hope I don't get called for jury duty.

crymeariver2006

03-19-2008, 05:13 PM

Originally posted by Sami

Cesar wearing those clothes to 'run away' didn't make sense to me, since he wasn't supposed to wear them in public places. [/*]

Cesar "running away" yet staying in a motel, not disguising or altering the truck in any way, buying sunglasses, and chatting it up with a bus driver never made sense to me.

:shrug:

Sometimes I think the boy just didn't "get it". JMO

SavannahStar

03-19-2008, 05:15 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006
Are ya'll still waiting around to send this stuff to Sutherland?

I think it should be sent by someone who has already established a "relationship" of sorts with him. Won't mention any names but the initials "nuttin" comes to mind.

:D

Not sure about Jose taking part in the murder or burial. The whole throwing the baby clothes in the pit just seems so "woman" to me. Like "take that, you __________". Just sayin....

BUT having said that, I've always said that Cesar (if he's still alive) left way earlier than Christina led police to believe. Maybe Jose dropped him off in Raleigh and then went back to the Laureans house and that's who the neighbor saw at 6:30 in the "marine outfit". [/*]

I dunno about this Jose guy......I've gotta get caught up and read all of today's posts.......so far I'm sorta :confused: about what little I've read so far.

nuttintodo

03-19-2008, 05:16 PM

Here are the two shots taken from the Williamsburg ATM:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a334/Nuttintodo/Lauterbach%20case/PIC-0172.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a334/Nuttintodo/Lauterbach%20case/atmbojangles.jpg

I'm here but I'm not, trying to get my pictures moved around.

strick10

03-19-2008, 05:17 PM

Originally posted by caejde

But why not drive her own car? Because by depending on Cesar or your sister, you would have to schedule flights based on their getting off work. [/*]

Somewhat :confused:

I was referring to the poster that posted that CSLs' car was at the L's home and the neighbor hadn't recalled seening CSL during the first part of Dec. A poster thought CSL may have been staying at her sisters. In whereas my comment about CSL having her car with her if she was in fact staying at her sisters in J'ville.

She could've left on a Sat., CAL or Amber could've asked for time off to drive her to the airport if not? My sister wouldn't drive either of them anywhere, at least I don't think. :D I think it'd be pretty difficult to drive by yourself from NC to Ohio w/ an 18 month old.

nuttintodo

03-19-2008, 05:18 PM

Originally posted by AnnieBean

Is photobucket hard to use? [/*]

Nah AB it isn't.

caejde

03-19-2008, 05:20 PM

Originally posted by strick10

Somewhat :confused:

I was referring to the poster that posted that CSLs' car was at the L's home and the neighbor hadn't recalled seening CSL during the first part of Dec. A poster thought CSL may have been staying at her sisters. In whereas my comment about CSL having her car with her if she was in fact staying at her sisters in J'ville.

She could've left on a Sat., CAL or Amber could've asked for time off to drive her to the airport if not? My sister wouldn't drive either of them anywhere, at least I don't think. :D I think it'd be pretty difficult to drive by yourself from NC to Ohio w/ an 18 month old. [/*]

I meant...why didn't she drive her own car to the airport? It does make you wonder if she was at home and sick in bed or if she was out of town. And you're right, she could have left and came back on a Saturday.

Edited to correct a word.

crymeariver2006

03-19-2008, 05:20 PM

Originally posted by caejde

So in all reality, she could have been killed 15th, 16th...oh geez. I hope I don't get called for jury duty. [/*]

No...I think it's more than likely late 14th, very early 15th.

Hiding a live Maria? I don't think so. He may have hidden her body and buried it later.

There was this program on TruTV yesterday. About this guy from Nicarauga who killed his g/f's mother and brother and buried them under the house (in the crawl space). There never was any smell until they (the police) dug up the bodies. They were buried there for over a week. Anyway, something about the dirt, moisture, they were covered....so maybe Rick was right, there wasn't an attempt to burn the body, just disguise the gravesite.

(Oh yeah, and the guy escaped to Nicarauga, was tried there and found guilty. Only got 15 years, which was the max).

donna

03-19-2008, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by IvySterling

But, IIRC it was stated that Christina had not been on leave during December. [/*]

Thanks, Ivy! I did not remember that. So, as caejde says - she could have been at her sisters.

crymeariver2006

03-19-2008, 05:23 PM

Originally posted by donna

Thanks, Ivy! I did not remember that. So, as caejde says - she could have been at her sisters. [/*]

And she could have been at home. I mean, of all the neighbors I think Wanda's the brightest bulb in THAT box.

:D

caejde

03-19-2008, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

No...I think it's more than likely late 14th, very early 15th.

Hiding a live Maria? I don't think so. He may have hidden her body and buried it later.

There was this program on TruTV yesterday. About this guy from Nicarauga who killed his g/f's mother and brother and buried them under the house (in the crawl space). There never was any smell until they (the police) dug up the bodies. They were buried there for over a week. Anyway, something about the dirt, moisture, they were covered....so maybe Rick was right, there wasn't an attempt to burn the body, just disguise the gravesite.

(Oh yeah, and the guy escaped to Nicarauga, was tried there and found guilty. Only got 15 years, which was the max). [/*]

My gut is 14th or 15th. I was just saying upthread that Cesar not borrowing that shovel til the 16th-a good bit later than when she was killed was a little risky....especially if Christina is innocent.

gaelicpeas

03-19-2008, 05:24 PM

GentleBreeze

03-19-2008, 05:25 PM

Originally posted by Sami

Cesar wearing those clothes to 'run away' didn't make sense to me, since he wasn't supposed to wear them in public places. [/*]

How does that work? I have seen many military personnel in airports with their uniforms on from cammies to dress blues?

I would think they would have to be in their cammies while going on their way to work wouldn't they? As long as they are in their vehicle then he could have left dressed just like he always did for work it seems like to me and that wouldn't be conspicuous at all. Just another Marine headed to work.

imoo

strick10

03-19-2008, 05:25 PM

caejde

03-19-2008, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by AnnieBean

oh geez, I hope you DO!!!!
think of the things you could somehow legally relay to us...in code or something.....(why am I salivating like pavlov's dog?) [/*]

LOL! I don't know if I could sit on a jury with having thoughts in my mind and try to listen fairly.

gaelicpeas

03-19-2008, 05:27 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo
Here are the two shots taken from the Williamsburg ATM:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a334/Nuttintodo/Lauterbach%20case/PIC-0172.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a334/Nuttintodo/Lauterbach%20case/atmbojangles.jpg

I'm here but I'm not, trying to get my pictures moved around. [/*]

Looking at that second picture, it appears to me that there is a hall or something going off to the left. It is tiled, but the floor looks different directly in front of the machine.

nuttintodo

03-19-2008, 05:28 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

How does that work? I have seen many military personnel in airports with their uniforms on from cammies to dress blues?

I would think they would have to be in their cammies while going on their way to work wouldn't they? As long as they are in their vehicle then he could have left dressed just like he always did for work it seems like to me and that wouldn't be conspicuous at all. Just another Marine headed to work.

imoo [/*]

Ocean, they can wear their cammies here only if they are going to and from work, making no stops in between.

My s-i-l wears civilan clothes and then changes at work because as he says he never know what will or can happen.

jmo

strick10

03-19-2008, 05:28 PM

Originally posted by IvySterling

Her profile does say USMC [/*]

Grrrrr.

SavannahStar

03-19-2008, 05:28 PM

Originally posted by strick10

-snipped-

I agree Cryme. Maybe drop Jose M. Delgados' name, whom lives(ed) on Meadow Drive whom was CALs best man, on the Sutherland and see if that takes them anywhere. You know just in case that name hasn't come up already. [/*]

Holy cow.

gaelicpeas

03-19-2008, 05:28 PM

nuttintodo

03-19-2008, 05:29 PM

IvySterling

03-19-2008, 05:30 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

And she could have been at home. I mean, of all the neighbors I think Wanda's the brightest bulb in THAT box.

:D [/*]
LOL, I agree, but think you meant she isn't! However it was the words from Richard, but that doesn't mean anything either :D

strick10

03-19-2008, 05:30 PM

Originally posted by caejde

So in all reality, she could have been killed 15th, 16th...oh geez. I hope I don't get called for jury duty. [/*]

I suppose the 14th or 15th. 14th since that is what the LE is saying. Marias obit read the 15th. I dunno......:confused:

donna

03-19-2008, 05:32 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

And she could have been at home. I mean, of all the neighbors I think Wanda's the brightest bulb in THAT box.

:D [/*]

:D .... cryme, I am beginning to think that all the bulbs in THAT box are only 25 watt. I would like to hear from some 100 watt witnesses!

gaelicpeas

03-19-2008, 05:37 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

That is where the Cash Points ATM is. [/*]

What is Cash Points? Are those pics of the ATM that CL used? TIA

GentleBreeze

03-19-2008, 05:38 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

Ocean, they can wear their cammies here only if they are going to and from work, making no stops in between.

My s-i-l wears civilian clothes and then changes at work because as he says he never know what will or can happen.

jmo [/*]

What about when they are traveling on leave by bus or plane or some other public transportation? I know I have seen them in those olive/brown drab colored uniforms with the soft vee pointed caps and I have seen them all decked out in their dress blues with the brilliant white cover (hat)

LOL Maybe I dreamed it but I also thought I had seen the Marine father come to the school to surprise their children when returning from Iraq and they were in their cammies.

Oh well.

imo

crymeariver2006

03-19-2008, 05:39 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

Looking at that second picture, it appears to me that there is a hall or something going off to the left. It is tiled, but the floor looks different directly in front of the machine. [/*]

And again I ask, where was the second person with the rag supposed to have been approaching from?

He could not have walked thru that glass.

:shrug:

(Not directed at you gp, I've just never been a two man at the ATM theorist).

crymeariver2006

03-19-2008, 05:42 PM

Originally posted by donna

:D .... cryme, I am beginning to think that all the bulbs in THAT box are only 25 watt. I would like to hear from some 100 watt witnesses! [/*]

You mean the ones that aren't missing fries from their Happy Meal?

:D

Seriously though, somebody asked Sheriff Ed in one of the pc's and he said she had not been out of town during December.

:shrug:

strick10

03-19-2008, 05:43 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

What about when they are traveling on leave by bus or plane or some other public transportation? I know I have seen them in those olive/brown drab colored uniforms with the soft vee pointed caps and I have seen them all decked out in their dress blues with the brilliant white cover (hat)

LOL Maybe I dreamed it but I also thought I had seen the Marine father come to the school to surprise their children when returning from Iraq and they were in their cammies.

Oh well.

imo [/*]

Hey GB. For your girl :rose:

In the Marines you can wear your charlies (tan shirt w/ olive green bottoms) and dress bules in public. Cammies are not to be worn in public. Driving to and from work is okay but you aren't suppose to. You may not have dreamt the Marine showing up in school in cammies. I'm sure that happens even if it's not allowed. Dad probably too excited to see his kids to care if he got in trouble for wearing cammies in public.

ETA; Driving to and from work is okay but you aren't suppose to stop in a public place.

caejde

03-19-2008, 05:44 PM

Originally posted by GentleBreeze

What about when they are traveling on leave by bus or plane or some other public transportation? I know I have seen them in those olive/brown drab colored uniforms with the soft vee pointed caps and I have seen them all decked out in their dress blues with the brilliant white cover (hat)

LOL Maybe I dreamed it but I also thought I had seen the Marine father come to the school to surprise their children when returning from Iraq and they were in their cammies.

Oh well.

imo [/*]

Those are ok. I rode a bus to MCT in my Alpha's...never again...that was a 12+hour trip and was very uncomfortable. And I know my hubby wore one of his other uniforms on the plane when he was coming home. But it wasn't cammies. And I have seen Marine fathers coming to the school to surprise their kids...I think they can make exceptions. Chances are he flew home in his cammies from the deployment and went straight to the school. MO though.

crymeariver2006

03-19-2008, 05:45 PM

Originally posted by SavannahStar

Holy cow. [/*]

Why do you say that?

It may mean nothing and it may mean everything. I think it would be up to LE to either discount it or follow up on it. Maybe they've already checked this guy out, maybe they haven't.

JMO

:shrug:

donna

03-19-2008, 05:47 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

And again I ask, where was the second person with the rag supposed to have been approaching from?

He could not have walked thru that glass.

:shrug:

(Not directed at you gp, I've just never been a two man at the ATM theorist). [/*]

I have to admit that the side glass protrudes out too far on the sides for another hand to reach in!

nuttintodo

03-19-2008, 05:48 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

What is Cash Points? Are those pics of the ATM that CL used? TIA [/*]

Cash Points is another ATM that is usually right beside another ATM as in this case, MFCU. It's the same way over at the MFCU ATM at Piney Green.

And yes that is the same ATM that was used on 12/24/07.

Sorry that I wasn't clear as I'm multitasking here. :D

strick10

03-19-2008, 05:50 PM

Originally posted by donna

I have to admit that the side glass protrudes out too far on the sides for another hand to reach in! [/*]

I thought that it was mentioned earlier that the pic of the atm that was located in/by lowes was the wrong location? caedje is going to drive by the atm location that was reported that was used by CAL and/if/or whomever.

SavannahStar

03-19-2008, 05:51 PM

Originally posted by AnnieBean
Savannah=- thanks for the PM, your mailbox is full.

Speaking of cleaning and in light of the news report about the guy who built a robot to kill himself.. heres a link with a bit of a reality check attached- do not open it if you are squeemish although nothing really graphic here if you watch TV any given night of the week- these are robots that go in after suicide bombings and secure the scene before clean up can begin- sobering reality our world today-:eek:
http://gizmodo.com/photogallery/israelibomber/1000651564
(scroll down a teensy and click on "next" or "previous".)

AB [/*]

Cleaned up. TY.

GentleBreeze

03-19-2008, 05:51 PM

Thanks for the answers. At least I know I am not senile yet because I knew I had seen those fine Marines, both men and women, in their dress attire. I have always admired their impeccable presentation.

imoo

donna

03-19-2008, 05:52 PM

Originally posted by strick10

I thought that it was mentioned earlier that the pic of the atm that was located in/by lowes was the wrong location? caedje is going to drive by the atm location that was reported that was used by CAL and/if/or whomever. [/*]

Thanks, strick10.

nuttintodo

03-19-2008, 05:53 PM

Originally posted by caejde

Those are ok. I rode a bus to MCT in my Alpha's...never again...that was a 12+hour trip and was very uncomfortable. And I know my hubby wore one of his other uniforms on the plane when he was coming home. But it wasn't cammies. And I have seen Marine fathers coming to the school to surprise their kids...I think they can make exceptions. Chances are he flew home in his cammies from the deployment and went straight to the school. MO though. [/*]

TY caejde.

Yes exceptions are made.

AD personnel are allowed to fly to and from Iraq/other deployments in their cammies. So that's probably why they are allowed to surprise their kids at school.

jmo

SavannahStar

03-19-2008, 05:53 PM

Originally posted by crymeariver2006

Why do you say that?

It may mean nothing and it may mean everything. I think it would be up to LE to either discount it or follow up on it. Maybe they've already checked this guy out, maybe they haven't.

JMO

:shrug: [/*]

I don't know. It gives me a weird feeling for us on here to publicly sorta "investigate" someone who may be totally innocent of anything at all related to this case. :shrug:

But like I said I haven't read all posts from today yet, especially this morning. Will read back. I don't know how better to explain what I mean, just a strange feeling about it.

gaelicpeas

03-19-2008, 05:54 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

Cash Points is another ATM that is usually right beside another ATM as in this case, MFCU. It's the same way over at the MFCU ATM at Piney Green.

And yes that is the same ATM that was used on 12/24/07.

Sorry that I wasn't clear as I'm multitasking here. :D [/*]

Thanks, Nuttin.

hmm... so there are 2 ATM machines side by side? If so, then I think certainly that somebody could stand off to the side. I wonder if LE has looked at the Cash Points surveillance camera?? Or is there only one camera for both ATMS?

Jan Powell

03-19-2008, 05:56 PM

Originally posted by nelkirk

Ciccarelli has said many things that are not suported by facts in evidence.

The MC/PC

It is NCIS who made this recommendation not JAG not the MC...but NCIS.

And then the head of that same local NCIS that has made that recommendation goes on record of saying that it was scheduled for December. So the the earliest that they can get DNA (officially) is in February, but the Article 32 is scheduled for December without the DNA available.

Then in early December the MC states:

The MC nor JAG were ready to schedule an Article 32: NO charges in the works, NO charges made, NO Staff Judge Advocate discussion, No scheduled date on the calendar of the Staff Judge Advocate, No defense counsel detailed for CL.

These things had to be accomplished before an Article 32 could be an actual fact. And as of early December they just had not been accomplished. With the holiday season leave schedules already in place the chance of a scheduled a date for an Artilce 32 the available dates would have been limited. And the DNA results they needed to put into evidence was would not be available until February.

IMO Ciccarelli mis-spoke again... [/*]

Would an Article 32 have been for both of them at the same time if it wasn't related to sexual assault?

I'm sorry I guess I don't understand all the rules.

nuttintodo

03-19-2008, 05:58 PM

Originally posted by gaelicpeas

Thanks, Nuttin.

hmm... so there are 2 ATM machines side by side? If so, then I think certainly that somebody could stand off to the side. I wonder if LE has looked at the Cash Points surveillance camera?? Or is there only camera for both ATMS? [/*]

Both ATM's have their own cameras. IIRC, there is a partition between the two ATM's.

crymeariver2006

03-19-2008, 06:00 PM

gaelicpeas

03-19-2008, 06:02 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

Both ATM's have their own cameras. IIRC, there is a partition between the two ATM's. [/*]

Okay, thanks. Do you remember if there is enough room for someone (else) to stand off to the side and use a rag to cover the camera? TIA

crymeariver2006

03-19-2008, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by SavannahStar

I don't know. It gives me a weird feeling for us on here to publicly sorta "investigate" someone who may be totally innocent of anything at all related to this case. :shrug:

But like I said I haven't read all posts from today yet, especially this morning. Will read back. I don't know how better to explain what I mean, just a strange feeling about it. [/*]

Understood. But like I said, it would be up to LE to investigate. It would be the same thing as somebody calling in a tip, I would think. May pan out, may not.

nuttintodo

03-19-2008, 06:08 PM

quote:
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Originally posted by strick10

I thought that it was mentioned earlier that the pic of the atm that was located in/by lowes was the wrong location? caedje is going to drive by the atm location that was reported that was used by CAL and/if/or whomever. [/*]
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Lynn_T said she had heard that CAL (or whomever now) used the ATM over by Lowe's on 12/24/07 and I also thought it was the same one.

My oldest daughter came in and was looking at the video (way back when) so I said is that the one in the Lowe's parking lot and she told me no, it was the one over by the Williamsburg shopping area off of Western Blvd. So the next time I was in that area, I stopped and took the pictures.

In this shopping area, there is Wendy's, Bojangles, Michaelangelo's, a convenince store, etc.

jmo

strick10

03-19-2008, 06:10 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo

Lynn_T said she had heard that CAL (or whomever now) used the ATM over by Lowe's on 12/24/07 and I also thought it was the same one.

My oldest daughter came in and was looking at the video (way back when) so I said is that the one in the Lowe's parking lot and she told me no, it was the one over by the Williamsburg shopping area off of Western Blvd. So the next time I was in that area, I stopped and took the pictures.

In this shopping area, there is Wendy's, Bojangles, Michaelangelo's, a convenince store, etc.

jmo [/*]

Thanks nuttin....

nuttintodo

03-19-2008, 06:13 PM

Whoa back the truck up, I am mistakened about the Cash Points being by the Williamsburg ATM! I was thinking of the one over at the Piney Green shopping center.

The Williamsburg ATM ONLY has a MFCU ATM. The tiled floor runs the entire length of MFCU's ATM there.

So at the Williamsburg ATM, it is possible for someone to stand off to the side.

I am so terribly sorry for the mess up. As I said, I am trying to multi-task and I got the two ATM's confused. It's been a long day for me.

Now just hammer on my wittle head as I slink back off in the corner. :chicken:

gaelicpeas

03-19-2008, 06:18 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo
Whoa back the truck up, I am mistakened about the Cash Points being by the Williamsburg ATM! I was thinking of the one over at the Piney Green shopping center.

The Williamsburg ATM ONLY has a MFCU ATM. The tiled floor runs the entire length of MFCU's ATM there.

So at the Williamsburg ATM, it is possible for someone to stand off to the side.

I am so terribly sorry for the mess up. As I said, I am trying to multi-task and I got the two ATM's confused. It's been a long day for me.

Now just hammer on my wittle head as I slink back off in the corner. :chicken: [/*]

LOL... no worries! So, somebody could have been off to the side... hmmmm....

strick10

03-19-2008, 06:19 PM

Originally posted by Lyn_T

As I stated earlier, I did email Sutherland with my pics/observations on Jan 21 after mulling it over that weekend. He emailed back and said

Thank-you for your observations and your thoughts. While I can not comment on them directly, I can say that we are looking at the images from all angles and considering multiple possibilities.

As far as Delgado, up until today I had not even given him a thought. But after doing some checking and bringing that to the board....who knows.

But Sutherland does know about my observations that it appeared to be 2 ppl at the ATM machine. [/*]

Good for you LynT. I think it's great you sent the pics and your comments in. I think Sutherland would like to hear any information regarding this case. You never know, it may help the case, maybe provide a break to something they weren't aware of or may have missed.

Maka

03-19-2008, 06:19 PM

Originally posted by nuttintodo
Here are the two shots taken from the Williamsburg ATM:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a334/Nuttintodo/Lauterbach%20case/PIC-0172.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a334/Nuttintodo/Lauterbach%20case/atmbojangles.jpg

I'm here but I'm not, trying to get my pictures moved around. [/*]

Help me...I'm lost....please confirm TYIA

This long view pic above that you posted (matches all the landmarks from the Brightcove video of the ATM shots) is where the rag was used to cover the lens?

And the photo you posted with the dark railing and the 2 ATMs side by side is where Maria used her ATM card on the 14th?

IvySterling

03-19-2008, 06:23 PM

Originally posted by donna

I am glad you did this Lyn_T. I gave up and admitted that the glass at the other ATM protruded too far out for another person other than CAL to reach in standing at the side.

It just looks like someone else's hand to me, IMO. [/*]
Yes it does, look how far back the 'Beanie' capped male is compared to the hand.
http://i26.tinypic.com/2eb79rs.jpg

ETA: well poop, that doesn't look like it does on my computer. I'll try Photobucket and see if it comes out better as it was a screen cap from the video.

strick10

03-19-2008, 06:25 PM

Originally posted by IvySterling

Yes it does, look how far back the 'Beanie' capped male is compared to the hand.
http://i26.tinypic.com/2eb79rs.jpg [/*]

Like I said earlier, either that person whom we have a full view of has a rubber arm or there is someone else there.

nuttintodo

03-19-2008, 06:26 PM

Originally posted by Maka

Help me...I'm lost....please confirm TYIA

This long view pic above that you posted (matches all the landmarks from the Brightcove video of the ATM shots) is where the rag was used to cover the lens?

And the photo you posted with the dark railing and the 2 ATMs side by side is where Maria used her ATM card on the 14th? [/*]

1) the long view is the picture I took looking back towards the same direction that the ATM camera saw on 12/24/07 attempts to withdraw money

2) With or without the man present? If with the man present, that's the one used on 12/24/07. If not, and you see the Cash Points ATM, that is the one Maria used on 12/14/07

donna

03-19-2008, 06:33 PM

Originally posted by IvySterling

Yes it does, look how far back the 'Beanie' capped male is compared to the hand.
http://i26.tinypic.com/2eb79rs.jpg

ETA: well poop, that doesn't look like it does on my computer. I'll try Photobucket and see if it comes out better as it was a screen cap from the video. [/*]

TY, Ivy!

donna

03-19-2008, 06:42 PM

Originally posted by old_lady
Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't most or all ATM machines set up to keep the person using it within the area of the camera's view and to not have an area inside for someone to be hiding from the view of the camera?

This is to protect the user and also so a robber can't hide if they come up to rob someone using it?

jmoo [/*]

The ATM I use has a glass on both sides, but the glass only protrudes out approximately 15 inches and is curved at the bottom. Someone could be standing beside me with their and reach in to obscure the camera. The camera is set straight on. However, having said that, there would be more arm showing with the hand at my ATM, but their body/face would not show.