Discussion - March 17th. [Archive] - In Session Message Boards

n/t

03-17-2008, 06:38 AM

Good Morning and Happy St. Patrick's day!

Quote from Mr. Liebeman, AMW

Normally, when you look through somebody's records you will find some debts being owed or you'll find that this guy had enemies.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,331893,00.html

Yes I'm quoting it again for a different reason this time. Financial records aren't the only indication of whether or not Nicholas had enemies. It may be but what other steps have LE taken to rule out any other possibility?

Normally, people close to the investigation are questioned and ruled out. Did LE question everyone close to Nicholas including his wife, mother, dad, sisters, in laws, coworkers, boss, friends, neighbours, etc.?

That was on my mind when I woke up this morning.

Continued prayers for Nicholas.:rose:

Shelby1

03-17-2008, 06:43 AM

Good morning!

Hoping we get more answers today.

n/t

03-17-2008, 06:43 AM

Just thought of something else.

Besides theft, what other motives would a person have to kidnap and/or murder someone?

AJandTam

03-17-2008, 07:36 AM

Originally posted by n/t
Just thought of something else.

Besides theft, what other motives would a person have to kidnap and/or murder someone? [/*]

Morning n/t.

You know what they say, murder is usually tied too

Drugs
love/jealousy or
money.

We will add revenge. Not awake yet.

AMS

03-17-2008, 08:58 AM

Originally posted by n/t
Just thought of something else.

Besides theft, what other motives would a person have to kidnap and/or murder someone? [/*]

Good morning, How about to keep them quiet? That person may know something that the other person does not want "shared".

AMS

huskiki

03-17-2008, 09:34 AM

Good Morning Everyone!

It would be nice to know who was investigated in this case. I keep going back to if it was the other way around and Christine was missing, you know LE would have been all over Nicholas. I don't get the double standard.

Happy St. Patrick's Day! :beer:

Shelby1

03-17-2008, 09:41 AM

In all of my reading, I missed this:

Bad news. Nicholas Francisco is an Art Director at Publicis advertising agency on lower Queen Anne in Seattle. He’s gone missing.
Publicis has hired a private investigator and his friends, family are performing daily searches. Francisco has been missing since leaving work Wednesday night and never arriving home in SeaTac. Sightings of the 28-year-old have been reported at a gas station on Elliot Avenue in Seattle and also in Burien.

Have you seen him? Above is the flyer with all the contact information you need to help out or share any information you may have. His pregnant wife and his two children would appreciate it.

As you all do, we too wish for his safe return.

http://agencyspy.wordpress.com/2008/02/18/art-director-missing-nicholas-francisco/

------------------------------------

I wonder if the investigator is still working on the case????

n/t

03-17-2008, 10:08 AM

Originally posted by huskiki
Good Morning Everyone!

It would be nice to know who was investigated in this case. I keep going back to if it was the other way around and Christine was missing, you know LE would have been all over Nicholas. I don't get the double standard.

Happy St. Patrick's Day! :beer: [/*]

I totally agree huskiki. After rereading some of the articles on the links thread and taking the inconsistencies and statements made by Christine, if it were the other way around, LE would be all over Nicholas.

Some of the comments made by readers in some of the links were also very interesting. If any of you have some time, read the link Cury posted yesterday and go to the readers comments.

soyesterday

03-17-2008, 10:11 AM

Originally posted by cteall
Possibly (and hopefully) more is going on behind the scenes than we know. It just seems really odd that his family and LE is being quiet and not doing much. We had a great reason for LE not doing much as someone was on vacation (!?!?) But that person should be well rested now and ready to continue the search for NF. But....why is his family not saying anything?? [/*]

I know right?
That really bothers me.
Where is HIS family???? :confused:

soyesterday

03-17-2008, 10:12 AM

Originally posted by Shelby1
In all of my reading, I missed this:

Bad news. Nicholas Francisco is an Art Director at Publicis advertising agency on lower Queen Anne in Seattle. He’s gone missing.
Publicis has hired a private investigator and his friends, family are performing daily searches. Francisco has been missing since leaving work Wednesday night and never arriving home in SeaTac. Sightings of the 28-year-old have been reported at a gas station on Elliot Avenue in Seattle and also in Burien.

Have you seen him? Above is the flyer with all the contact information you need to help out or share any information you may have. His pregnant wife and his two children would appreciate it.

As you all do, we too wish for his safe return.

http://agencyspy.wordpress.com/2008/02/18/art-director-missing-nicholas-francisco/

------------------------------------

I wonder if the investigator is still working on the case???? [/*]

I wonder if they are still doing daily searches?
Usually the public helps w/ that stuff right?
What if a bunch of us were wanting to start searching?
Would we do that w/ the family like we see when, for example, a missing college girl is abducted or something like that??

Shelby1

03-17-2008, 10:22 AM

Originally posted by cteall
This is strictly my opinion, but I think somebody knows something and for whatever reason they are not talking. We have LE doing their investigation, the family of NF and a PI hired by Publicis....now a month later all of them seem (IMO) to be quiet. Doesn't anyone else see a common denominator here? [/*]

I wish they would come out publicly and say that they no longer consider him a missing person, then.

My gut just won't let me think that he walked away from his children, though.

n/t

03-17-2008, 10:33 AM

Originally posted by cteall
This is strictly my opinion, but I think somebody knows something and for whatever reason they are not talking. We have LE doing their investigation, the family of NF and a PI hired by Publicis....now a month later all of them seem (IMO) to be quiet. Doesn't anyone else see a common denominator here? [/*]

I do. The only one doing all the talking is Christine. :shrug:

huskiki

03-17-2008, 10:36 AM

Originally posted by n/t

I totally agree huskiki. After rereading some of the articles on the links thread and taking the inconsistencies and statements made by Christine, if it were the other way around, LE would be all over Nicholas.

Some of the comments made by readers in some of the links were also very interesting. If any of you have some time, read the link Cury posted yesterday and go to the readers comments. [/*]

Thanks for directing me to that link. I had read the article before but didn't notice the comment section. It seems more and more online papers are doing that now.

It's nice to see that we're not the only ones questioning things about this case.

n/t

03-17-2008, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by Shelby1

I wish they would come out publicly and say that they no longer consider him a missing person, then.

My gut just won't let me think that he walked away from his children, though. [/*]

I know what you mean Shelby but it happens. I posted a link to one of Oprah's shows aired last week. This poor woman was pregnant with her 4th. child, her husband was a minister and he left her for another woman.

This poor woman begged her husband not to leave. She even held onto his ankles before he left.

:(

Shelby1

03-17-2008, 10:50 AM

Originally posted by n/t

I know what you mean Shelby but it happens. I posted a link to one of Oprah's shows aired last week. This poor woman was pregnant with her 4th. child, her husband was a minister and he left her for another woman.

This poor woman begged her husband not to leave. She even held onto his ankles before he left.

:( [/*]

I know it happens *sigh*. What a sad story :(

The only difference is, his kids know he's not missing. He'll probably see them and continue having a relationship. Could Nicholas walk away on his own and never ever see his kids again? Never meet his new baby?

According to Christine he couldn't.

What about friends and family out there? Give us some information about Nicholas. Was he a devoted father? Could he leave and never look back?

n/t

03-17-2008, 11:01 AM

Originally posted by Shelby1

I know it happens *sigh*. What a sad story :(

The only difference is, his kids know he's not missing. He'll probably see them and continue having a relationship. Could Nicholas walk away on his own and never ever see his kids again? Never meet his new baby?

According to Christine he couldn't.

What about friends and family out there? Give us some information about Nicholas. Was he a devoted father? Could he leave and never look back? [/*]

Maybe he just needed a break from all the stresses in his life and couldn't do it if he would tell Christine. Maybe Christine would get too upset and then he'd have no choice but to stay.

Also, another thing I thought of last night and that was Christine's reference to some dream she had of Nicholas being near water.

Could that be another clue? Maybe some of us think the worse but what if it really meant, he's vacationing somewhere on a beach. Yes, maybe even sipping Margueritas in Mexico as she pointed out in one of the interviews.

Who knows.

n/t

03-17-2008, 11:04 AM

Originally posted by Shelby1
To add to what n/t said, most of us are very caring people who only want to help--and NOT for the money. Honestly, it never ever crossed my mind to try to find him for the money. [/*]

I'm with you. The reward money never even crossed my mind.

Sunday Moon

03-17-2008, 11:11 AM

Good morning, friends! I have been scarce lately but not because I am no longer interested! I have been extremely busy lately but now have some time to catch up (my students are in Art!!))

Hmmmm, interesting that FYI's first thought is MONEY. Why would that person even think about that when not a one of us has ever even alluded to it. Veeeery interesting, I must say.

And as for a motive to kill....I am also thinking that possibly Nicholas knew something shady about work or church and someone silenced him. That's my new theory! I don't think that someone would have kidnapped him for money or his car, I think it was something else.

PerneciaJane

03-17-2008, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by FYI In WA
So 20+ pages later, hundreds of comments, assumptions, etc. Have you guys actually HELPED anyone? I mean, on other cases that you follow?

You have this site up to help find the missing. I can find this discussion on the internet by typing in "Nicholas Francisco". I can also find maps to their home, pictures of their home, basically the entire life of the Francisco's unveiled.

Let's follow one of the theory's and say he was "kidnapped." Now if they DO want to get to Christine, you've provided them every possible way to contact her.

Not only is she facing the fact that her husband may never be found, she's also going to have to move, change her email addresses, many many little things you guys don't think about.

I don't see this blog as a help, I see it as some bored people looking to get some tiny little tip that might help them get the $15,000 reward.

Christine is dealing with this, she's working with state-provided social workers to help her sort through the options. She doesn't feel safe in her home and has had tons of support from her close friends. She doesn't think (because it's been discussed with the investigators) that Viliamu Fale's disappearance has anything to do with Nicholas.

And (because I've talked to her as well,) Viliamu's wife Stephanie has only kept HIS case out of the media because she's a very private person and is in shock.

Come on, Christine is an adult, a parent and is a lot stronger than ANYONE here has given her credit for. You think you know everything from your distant computer and your secret "investigating techniques," well let me tell you you're sadly mistaken if you think she's EVER going to "get over" this and "move on", she's just trying to figure out what's going to happen to her home, cars, lights, water, etc. in the months ahead.

Everyone started out being so positive and giving her well-wishes and then all of a sudden that $15k reward money brought out the evil.

If he was out of her life for any other reason, she'd still have to do what she's doing.

I've talked with the police, I've talked with the media, I've talked to everyone around here and there is nothing happening. The police aren't going to just walk around calling his name, there's no where and everywhere to look, that's why no one is "talking."

I had to put my two cents in here, because it really ticks me off that everyone is so negative towards both Christine and Stephanie Fale- when neither of these women asked for this. YES, I do agree that if the women were missing, we'd still be hearing about it on TV.

Get over it, move on, these women are in shock and dealing with a million things right now, but are in professional hands.

PS- Stephanie never went to Art school with Christine, you're information is old and not going anywhere.

God bless both of these families and may we find answers soon!:rose: :rose: [/*]

I am not sure but I would think a family member could have a thread about a loved one/Victim closed if they ask those in charge especially if it only focuses on one person, who is not the Victim/thread name. You could get in touch with administrator of insessions and request this.

Prayers for both families :rose:

KKKKKKatie

03-17-2008, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by PerneciaJane

I am not sure but I would think a family member could have a thread about a loved one/Victim closed if they ask those in charge especially if it only focuses on one person, who is not the Victim/thread name. You could get in touch with administrator of insessions and request this.

Prayers for both families :rose: [/*]

That has been your mission since you got here. Which site are you off to next to get it shut down?

KKKKKKatie

03-17-2008, 11:17 AM

Originally posted by Sunday Moon
Good morning, friends! I have been scarce lately but not because I am no longer interested! I have been extremely busy lately but now have some time to catch up (my students are in Art!!))

Hmmmm, interesting that FYI's first thought is MONEY. Why would that person even think about that when not a one of us has ever even alluded to it. Veeeery interesting, I must say.

And as for a motive to kill....I am also thinking that possibly Nicholas knew something shady about work or church and someone silenced him. That's my new theory! I don't think that someone would have kidnapped him for money or his car, I think it was something else. [/*]

I keep going back and forth. I just can't see him walking out on his family :shrug: I wonder about the Church connection also

field of snow

03-17-2008, 11:22 AM

This was brought up before and I wanted to pop it back in here to keep it as a possibility.

Dissociative fugue is a rare disorder. An individual with dissociative fugue suddenly and unexpectedly takes physical leave of his or her surroundings and sets off on a journey of some kind. These journeys can last hours, or even several days or months. Individuals experiencing a dissociative fugue have traveled over thousands of miles. An individual in a fugue state is unaware of or confused about his identity, and in some cases will assume a new identity (although this is the exception).

As for FYI in WA -- I appreciate that she/he took the time to post all that in the middle of what must be an exhausting month of searching for Nicholas herself/himself.

tulipmom

03-17-2008, 11:24 AM

WHY have they never made a public plea again? The sisters were crying and it broke my heart and then.... silence. That simply does not happen UNLESS they did find out he is alive and that he left CF. Their silence speaks volumes. The loudness of CF speaks volumes. A Mom of a missing child ( no matter the age of that child ) does not just go away and not speak, plead, go to the ends of the earth searching and crying out. Yet she is silent. CF has been so loud and so out there on message boards that it reminds me of the " one that barks the loudest " She does come across as guilty but of what? Knowing he DID actually come home that night? Perhaps. The initial report is based solely on her statement only and that was not until around 10:00, right? Also to FYI in WA...... nice try but not gonna fly here. Wondering if anyone is up to tracking the IP of FYI? Might be interesting as well as a couple of others. And Pernecia, I doubt threads are ever shut down due to the reason you stated. Just look back at some of them that got much more intense than this one and have lasted years. Holloway comes to mind.
Edited to add to FYI and Pernecia: Remember there are many legal eagles etc. on ths site- the profession ( or obsession! ) of many of us and therefore the reason we can discuss it.

Cury-us Coyote

03-17-2008, 11:25 AM

Originally posted by KKKKKKatie

I keep going back and forth. I just can't see him walking out on his family :shrug: I wonder about the Church connection also [/*]

http://www.komotv.com/home/video/16731531.html?video=pop&t=a

n/t

03-17-2008, 11:26 AM

Originally posted by field of snow
This was brought up before and I wanted to pop it back in here to keep it as a possibility.

<snipped>

[/*]

Wow. I never read that before. I must've missed it when it was being discussed. So this a mental disorder?

Popas2cents

03-17-2008, 11:27 AM

APRIL 9

tulipmom

03-17-2008, 11:28 AM

Does he return? File for divorce? What?

n/t

03-17-2008, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by Cury-us Coyote

http://www.komotv.com/home/video/16731531.html?video=pop&t=a [/*]

Hi Cury,

Thanks for all the links! I don't have speakers at work and will only be able to listen to this when I get home.

Where is Belltown?

AMS

03-17-2008, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by n/t

Wow. I never read that before. I must've missed it when it was being discussed. So this a mental disorder? [/*]

Here's some more on dissociative fugue. It's interesting...

http://www.merck.com/mmhe/sec07/ch106/ch106c.html

AMS

field of snow

03-17-2008, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by n/t

Wow. I never read that before. I must've missed it when it was being discussed. So this a mental disorder? [/*]

It was brought up only briefly, but it fits with my original instinct.

Yes it's a mental thing. And it is triggered often by abuse/trauma or stress, including FINANCIAL stress (as well as marital).

I'd have to read more about it, but the reason I brought it up is that I was speaking with someone about the case yesterday who has studied psychology and that is the first thought that came to to their mind. Although it's very rare, it does fit with the assumptions and claims that Nicholas would never intentionally leave his children or even CF. The stress of money, working his AD job, working his freelance jobs, and other things could be enough to trigger a breaking point that sets off this fugue.

Just thinking...

n/t

03-17-2008, 11:39 AM

Originally posted by AMS

Here's some more on dissociative fugue. It's interesting...

http://www.merck.com/mmhe/sec07/ch106/ch106c.html

AMS [/*]

Thanks! I'll read it during my lunch hour and do a little more research on it too. :seeya:

n/t

03-17-2008, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by field of snow

It was brought up only briefly, but it fits with my original instinct.

Yes it's a mental thing. And it is triggered often by abuse/trauma or stress, including FINANCIAL stress (as well as marital).

I'd have to read more about it, but the reason I brought it up is that I was speaking with someone about the case yesterday who has studied psychology and that is the first thought that came to to their mind. Although it's very rare, it does fit with the assumptions and claims that Nicholas would never intentionally leave his children or even CF. The stress of money, working his AD job, working his freelance jobs, and other things could be enough to trigger a breaking point that sets off this fugue.

Just thinking... [/*]

I think it's a good possibility that this is what may have happened considering all that we know so far. Loving husband, great dad, no enemies, loveable guy, etc.

mc528

03-17-2008, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by Shelby1
In all of my reading, I missed this:

Bad news. Nicholas Francisco is an Art Director at Publicis advertising agency on lower Queen Anne in Seattle. He’s gone missing.
Publicis has hired a private investigator and his friends, family are performing daily searches. Francisco has been missing since leaving work Wednesday night and never arriving home in SeaTac. Sightings of the 28-year-old have been reported at a gas station on Elliot Avenue in Seattle and also in Burien.

Have you seen him? Above is the flyer with all the contact information you need to help out or share any information you may have. His pregnant wife and his two children would appreciate it.

As you all do, we too wish for his safe return.

http://agencyspy.wordpress.com/2008/02/18/art-director-missing-nicholas-francisco/

------------------------------------

I wonder if the investigator is still working on the case???? [/*]

I've been wondering, and asking about the Publicis hired PI for a few weeks now. There hasn't been any word on that since it was mentiond initially. And also going back to a post from last night......is it even known/confirmed that the PI (if indeed true that one was hired - it was never confirmed by CF in her *facts*) was hired to find NF to bring him back.....or maybe (just a thought) he/she was hired to be sure that there was "no trace of him left". I still keep, in my mind, linking the timing of NF's disappearance to the breaking in the financial media about the "watergate" type of software related issue involving Publicis. (2/15). Or the possibility that NF was somehow involved in some sort of criminal behavior against his employer.

tulipmom

03-17-2008, 11:42 AM

Since you have not visited here before you don't remember Beth Smith? Go check out her thread. Eye-opening when you don't think people can just walk away or better yet- go check out how her husband was talked about, investigated- people thought maybe he drove all the way to Shreveport, LA from AL just to do something to her. Yet in the end and many months later, Beth was found living in N.Y. and did not want to come home. Yes, she simply walked out of a Beth Moore conference and walked away from her pastor husband AND her children. Walked away from her teaching job and was working in a fast food restaurant. Since you are a friend of CF, please explain why Nick's mom & sisters are now silent? Beth's family was not silent UNTIL they knew she had been located. Suspicions were there in the media and it turned out to be true.

KKKKKKatie

03-17-2008, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by mc528

I've been wondering, and asking about the Publicis hired PI for a few weeks now. There hasn't been any word on that since it was mentiond initially. And also going back to a post from last night......is it even known/confirmed that the PI (if indeed true that one was hired - it was never confirmed by CF in her *facts*) was hired to find NF to bring him back.....or maybe (just a thought) he/she was hired to be sure that there was "no trace of him left". I still keep, in my mind, linking the timing of NF's disappearance to the breaking in the financial media about the "watergate" type of software related issue involving Publicis. (2/15). Or the possibility that NF was somehow involved in some sort of criminal behavior against his employer. [/*]

was it ever disclosed what that "Watergate" issue was?

tulipmom

03-17-2008, 12:01 PM

I've often thought that also. Publicis knew it so hired their own investigator. CF knew it hence her " coward " comment. She wanted him to stay and face the music but he ran. Maybe? This would probably not be made known in the media if they are investigating it behind the scenes but his mom & sisters might have been told.

field of snow

03-17-2008, 12:02 PM

This is interesting....

"Why do Men Go Missing?" http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7126738.stm

Bernard Cook is still receiving post.

But he has not passed over the threshold of his home and reached down to pick it up since 16 November 2005.

Some time around the middle of that day Mr Cook, estates director for the Mersey Docks and Harbour Company and due at an important meeting, took a van from his work and disappeared.

Bernard Cook
Now when the phone goes you don't expect it to be news
Bernadette Cook
Whose husband, above, is missing

In the two years and 18 days that have passed there has only been one sighting, at a church in Coventry, that has given his family any hope.

It would be understandable to fear he had killed himself, but despite extensive police efforts no body has been found. He has not tried to access his bank accounts and there was no evidence of preparations for disappearance.

When we think of missing people we tend to assume vulnerable women, troubled teenagers and children running away. But there is a category of missing person that receives less coverage in the national news: men over the age of 30.

Across the UK, there are as many as 210,000 missing persons reports every year, although with one person often being counted several times for numerous disappearances,

(story continues at the link above)

Nellie

03-17-2008, 12:04 PM

FYI, I'm curious about a few things.

Why did Christine tell the Greta producer that she was all alone with no help but you're indicating that "she has tons of support from her friends". Which is it? I don't understand her telling them that if people are helping her.

Welcome to the board. Maybe you can help us clear up some of these inconsistencies. There may be perfectly logically explanations for them and knowing the explanations will help us understand better.

Thank you.

n/t

03-17-2008, 12:14 PM

Originally posted by field of snow
This is interesting....

"Why do Men Go Missing?" http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7126738.stm

(story continues at the link above) [/*]

"although with one person often being counted several times for numerous disappearances"

hmmmm wonder what they mean by this?

esbee

03-17-2008, 12:16 PM

Originally posted by Nellie
FYI, I'm curious about a few things.

Why did Christine tell the Greta producer that she was all alone with no help but you're indicating that "she has tons of support from her friends". Which is it? I don't understand her telling them that if people are helping her.

Welcome to the board. Maybe you can help us clear up some of these inconsistencies. There may be perfectly logically explanations for them and knowing the explanations will help us understand better.

Thank you. [/*]

this has come up a number of times. i wonder if it was just a comment that the producer came up with and not something christine actually said?

field of snow

03-17-2008, 12:17 PM

Originally posted by n/t

"although with one person often being counted several times for numerous disappearances"

hmmmm wonder what they mean by this? [/*]

I think that it means that out of the 210,000 people reported missing, a number of them are the same person being reported over and over again (like if your husband doesn't come home 5 times and you reported him missing 5 times, those 5 times count in that 210,000 for five instances, not one)

Or did I just make that more confusing? LOL

n/t

03-17-2008, 12:18 PM

I just read the link about dissociative fugue. 1 in 1000 people. That is a lot of people!! :eek:

n/t

03-17-2008, 12:21 PM

Originally posted by field of snow

I think that it means that out of the 210,000 people reported missing, a number of them are the same person being reported over and over again (like if your husband doesn't come home 5 times and you reported him missing 5 times, those 5 times count in that 210,000 for five instances, not one)

Or did I just make that more confusing? LOL [/*]

LOL Thanks. I think I get it now. So the same person can reappear and then disappear again.

Heck if my husband did that 5 times, the 5th. time would be the last time.

Interesting statistics.

mc528

03-17-2008, 12:21 PM

Originally posted by KKKKKKatie

was it ever disclosed what that "Watergate" issue was? [/*]

Here is just a couple of links that describes the scandal. I tried last night to get to the actual article that *broke* in the Wall Street Journal on 2/15, but I'm not a subscriber to WSJ on-line.
http://www.tribbleagency.com/?p=824
http://www.mediabistro.com/agencyspy/publicis/

KKKKKKatie

03-17-2008, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by mc528

Here is just a couple of links that describes the scandal. I tried last night to get to the actual article that *broke* in the Wall Street Journal on 2/15, but I'm not a subscriber to WSJ on-line.
http://www.tribbleagency.com/?p=824
http://www.mediabistro.com/agencyspy/publicis/ [/*]

thanks mc! Darn...I wish they would tell us what it was...now I really want to know :D

Cury-us Coyote

03-17-2008, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by Nellie
FYI, I'm curious about a few things.

Why did Christine tell the Greta producer that she was all alone with no help but you're indicating that "she has tons of support from her friends". Which is it? I don't understand her telling them that if people are helping her.

Welcome to the board. Maybe you can help us clear up some of these inconsistencies. There may be perfectly logically explanations for them and knowing the explanations will help us understand better.

Thank you. [/*]

WOW - that was quick, IMO. I guess there will be no answers or did I miss something? TIA

mc528

03-17-2008, 12:42 PM

In reading this morning the posts last night in yesterday's thread, I read where there was a request to try and look at other possibilites for an explanation for NF's disappearance. That reminded me of a post I made last week where I outlined 5 possible scenarios that could/would be explored if a show like "48 Hours" were to do an investigation. Here they are again:

Posted by me, on 3/9
1) He left on his own, for personal reasons: Why would he do that? By all accounts, he appeared to have a great life - a devoted wife, two beautiful children, a great job at which he was recently promoted, a fledgling buisness in a great emerging field, a lot of internet connections, and no known enemies or problems. How could someone just walk out on all of that?

2) He left, but for very serious (maybe even criminal) reasons: What could those possibly be? Was he possibly leading a double life, that absolutely no-one knew anything about? Was he somehow involved in a terrorist, militant, or organized crime organization, or knew something about one? Could he have been privvy to, or involved in some sort of illegal activity involving his employer or church?

3) He was the victim of a random act of foul play on his way to his car, or to the store for the sugar, or after: Are there any other reports from the surrounding area that would make this a likely scenario? Any other similar crimes? And how could this have occured and no-one notices? What's wrong with society if a person can be attacked or abducted an no-one notices? How did his car end up where it did?

4) He was the victim of foul play, but it was not at all random: What possible motive would anyone have to cause harm to NF, or want him gone? The total lack of evidence does suggest that if foul play was the reason, that it definitely was calculated, and seems very professionally carried out. It all goes back to "why Nicholas?" Has the FBI (or other government agency) been brought in or consulted in any way?

5) This was all an elaborate, pre-planned, hoax that spun out of control: How could this have been accomplished? What part did all of CF's and NF's internet connections play a part in this story getting as big as it did? What was really supposed to have happened, before it spun out of control? Who else was involved, or knew about it?

Maybe we could take what little we know about this case so far, and see how it fits with any of the 5 scenarios above.....primarily focusing away from #1 (since that topic has beaten repeatedly with generally the same results as what occurs almost every evening). If we do focus still on #1, what else/other reasons aside from CF may be involved.

Since very little is known, how can use our collective experience, skills and reasoning to try and uncover clues that may point to an answer as to what happened to Nicholas, without constantly going over the same topics over and over again?

I have to go out for the day...I'll check back later to see if any "new" theories or discussions ensue.

dianaelaine

03-17-2008, 12:43 PM

I'm going to post TWO separate posts, since my last one was deleted, and this one might be.

I don't understand WHY of course, because many of you have said pretty much the same things I did in my post, yet it was taken down. Oh well!

This is JUST my personal opinion here, but one theory on why some folks here are trying to get the forum shut down, is because "I" started a thread over on the Biz site, that lead to all the other 'asking for donations & prayers' thread closed.

Maybe they've decided that because that happened, they're coming here and do the same. Just my opinion and a possibility.

dianaelaine

03-17-2008, 12:50 PM

OK, now my post on some ideas:

!. Unless they have and aren't telling us, WHY haven't they gone back to the condos and door to door, for those who they missed the first time, and even a second time for those they all ready talked to ... and try again. Interview each person a bit deeper. See if anybody appears nervous or suspicious.

2. Go across the street to the other apartments, and ask if the car was there BEFORE it was spotted at the condos.

Also go door to door at the apartments.

3. Talk to the residents on the street where he worked and parked. Are there any houses there? I saw apartments above the Safeway, what about those?

4. I watched 48 hours mystery last night. Couple had 2 kids, good life, happy marriage, he worked on Wall Street, enough money, vacations, etc.

One night he didn't come home. She phoned a friend to watch the kids and after calling him several times, got in her car and drove his route ... called hospitals, urgent care, checked stores, hotels, etc. She did this for hours.

She eventually got a call from police that her husband was in jail for bank robbery.

Anyway .. point is, she did go out and look .. she searched, she didn't call and report him missing 4 hours into it.

-------------------------------------------

Not sure what my point was with number 4 ... but just sayin ...

I feel SO anxious that they haven't checked door to door where his car was. Maybe it means nothing .. but it's driving me crazy. What if he's right inside one of them, by his own will or against his will?

decor

03-17-2008, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by Cury-us Coyote

WOW - that was quick, IMO. I guess there will be no answers or did I miss something? TIA [/*]

no you didn't miss anything and I think we are the only two to have noticed. (no answers)

HarlettOhara

03-17-2008, 01:00 PM

Originally posted by cteall
Shelby, I would think by now they would have found the answers they were looking for. I haven't heard CF discussing this at all, if it were me I would be all over any PI working on finding my missing husband. [/*]

Neither Christine or the Detectives have been contacted by any PI.. They don't know anything about one being hired.

need2no

03-17-2008, 01:00 PM

Originally posted by Beth
It is interesting that out of all those bullet points, money is near the top. Who else is it again that puts such a high priority on money?

I personally never even thought of the reward money and I find it insulting to even suggest that's why most of us are here. [/*]

My 1st thought when I read the accusation we were looking to collect the 15K reward is how would it even be possible. Let's say my theory about what happened is correct, so LE, the PI, or CF follows what I have suggested here and successfully locates NF...how the heck would I collect the reward money, and would any of them even admit it was my theory that led them to find NF, and how would they locate need2no to pay me. ROFL! That comment was ludicrous!!

Shelby1

03-17-2008, 01:02 PM

Originally posted by HarlettOhara

Neither Christine or the Detectives have been contacted by any PI.. They don't know anything about one being hired. [/*]

Interesting.

I wonder if the company really didn't hire one?????

field of snow

03-17-2008, 01:07 PM

Is this blog the original source for the "Publicis Hired a PI" or did we also hear it from other sources?

http://agencyspy.wordpress.com/category/publicis/

Shelby1

03-17-2008, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by field of snow
Is this blog the original source for the "Publicis Hired a PI" or did we also hear it from other sources?

http://agencyspy.wordpress.com/category/publicis/ [/*]

I haven't seen it said anywhere else.

isitme

03-17-2008, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by decor

did you notice that there will be no answers? [/*]

Yes, sure did.

tulipmom

03-17-2008, 01:20 PM

of other questions still left unanswered. Forgot to check the writing style.

need2no

03-17-2008, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by HarlettOhara

Neither Christine or the Detectives have been contacted by any PI.. They don't know anything about one being hired. [/*]

This would seem to imply the PI (if in fact the employer hired a PI and it's not just a rumor), is not trying to find Nicholas if he hasn't spoken with CF or LE. To me it sounds like he is investigating something else to do with Nicholas related to his employment.

need2no

03-17-2008, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by tulipmom
of other questions still left unanswered. Forgot to check the writing style. [/*]

Someone quoted it, if it's still there.

Cury-us Coyote

03-17-2008, 01:42 PM

Originally posted by HarlettOhara

Neither Christine or the Detectives have been contacted by any PI.. They don't know anything about one being hired. [/*]

Thanks. :seeya: and hey to Grande.

ThruTheTrees

03-17-2008, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by need2no

This would seem to imply the PI (if in fact the employer hired a PI and it's not just a rumor), is not trying to find Nicholas if he hasn't spoken with CF or LE. To me it sounds like he is investigating something else to do with Nicholas related to his employment. [/*]

Yes, I would get that sense too.

Although maybe the initial report that they hired a PI was not even accurate. Maybe someone at Publicis said to someone else "oh I heard they are going to hire a PI" and they told someone else and they told someone else, and after it being said (how many times is it? 3?!) it became a "fact" that was posted on someone's blog. But maybe there never was a PI at all. Just another "possiblity" since of course I don't know either!

Shelby1

03-17-2008, 01:44 PM

What is the criteria needed to be added to the FBI missing persons list?

n/t

03-17-2008, 01:46 PM

Originally posted by HarlettOhara

Neither Christine or the Detectives have been contacted by any PI.. They don't know anything about one being hired. [/*]

Do you have a link please? TIA!

ThruTheTrees

03-17-2008, 01:55 PM

Hi all -- last night I mentioned the idea that maybe there should be a place online where people could post supportive words and prayers specifically for Nicholas. There is one for Christine -- supportingchristine.wordpress.com -- and it says its for "Christine and family" but the vast majority of the posts are addressed to Christine.

We have not heard Christine on her blog or in her interviews say anything like how much she loves and misses her husband and how, if he's out there reading or hearing this, she hopes he is ok and will get in contact etc. There was a post on the blog of Nicholas's best friend Matt in Colorado, that was a bit like that (I think it is Matt's wife that writes the blog probably). I have always thought that if Nick left because of severe stress, anxiety, or depression, that he could benefit from more support and acceptance than what has been shown publicly for him so far.

A few people replied last night that they thought it would be a good idea to have something like that, and that they would go there and post.

So here it is:
http://supportingnicholas.blogspot.com

From the first post: This new blog – supportingnicholas.blogspot.com – is a place where people can post their supportive words and prayers specifically for Nicholas. A place to send love and light to him, wherever he may be. We want Nicholas to know, if he reads this, that there are many people who are very concerned about him, people who miss him, people who care about him, people who are praying for him and for his well-being.

This isn’t a place to discuss what might have happened to Nicholas. We do encourage anyone with information to contact King County Police Department at (206) 296-3311. There is a $15,000 reward for information that leads to finding Nicholas. If you want to discuss the case, learn more about it, or contact Nicholas’s wife Christine, please use the links at the right to get that info.

field of snow

03-17-2008, 01:56 PM

Someone can email agencyspy[at]mediabistro.com
to ask what his/her source was for the report on their blog that a PI was hired by Publicis...?

http://www.mediabistro.com/agencyspy/publicis/default.asp

sarahhod

03-17-2008, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by ThruTheTrees
Hi all -- last night I mentioned the idea that maybe there should be a place online where people could post supportive words and prayers specifically for Nicholas. There is one for Christine -- supportingchristine.wordpress.com -- and it says its for "Christine and family" but the vast majority of the posts are addressed to Christine.

We have not heard Christine on her blog or in her interviews say anything like how much she loves and misses her husband and how, if he's out there reading or hearing this, she hopes he is ok and will get in contact etc. There was a post on the blog of Nicholas's best friend Matt in Colorado, that was a bit like that (I think it is Matt's wife that writes the blog probably). I have always thought that if Nick left because of severe stress, anxiety, or depression, that he could benefit from more support and acceptance than what has been shown publicly for him so far.

A few people replied last night that they thought it would be a good idea to have something like that, and that they would go there and post.

So here it is:
http://supportingnicholas.blogspot.com

From the first post: This new blog – supportingnicholas.blogspot.com – is a place where people can post their supportive words and prayers specifically for Nicholas. A place to send love and light to him, wherever he may be. We want Nicholas to know, if he reads this, that there are many people who are very concerned about him, people who miss him, people who care about him, people who are praying for him and for his well-being.

This isn’t a place to discuss what might have happened to Nicholas. We do encourage anyone with information to contact King County Police Department at (206) 296-3311. There is a $15,000 reward for information that leads to finding Nicholas. If you want to discuss the case, learn more about it, or contact Nicholas’s wife Christine, please use the links at the right to get that info. [/*]

WOW Thank you TTT. What a great idea.

n/t

03-17-2008, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by HarlettOhara

How would I go about giving a link to something that is not in a news article.. I guess I could ask LE to come here and post it, but they wouldn't have a link either :shrug: [/*]

Are you saying you spoke to the detective and they told you no PI was hired or did you get this information from Christine?

n/t

03-17-2008, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by need2no

n/t it is my understanding Harlett has been in direct contact with Christine..but I don't know about LE. [/*]

Thank you. I wonder if the information was given directly by the detective or through Christine.

n/t

03-17-2008, 02:03 PM

Nellie

03-17-2008, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by cteall
So now I am wondering.....was that a rumor that Pubicis hired their own PI. If neither Christine nor LE know anything about it then how could this possibly be? Does anyone have any kind of a credible link that a PI was in fact hired? [/*]

So, if it's a rumor.....then what was the purpose of the rumor?
Why would someone want to lead everyone into thinking a PI is on the case? Hmmmmm......

need2no

03-17-2008, 02:07 PM

ThruTheTrees

03-17-2008, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by cteall

Oh WOW, I just looked at it.....what a WONDERFUL idea. Might be nice to include Nics birth family also. They need as much support as they can get during this very difficult time in their lives. [/*]

Oh, good idea. I'll add something about that.

Shelby1

03-17-2008, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by Nellie

So, if it's a rumor.....then what was the purpose of the rumor?
Why would someone want to lead everyone into thinking a PI is on the case? Hmmmmm...... [/*]

So that people will think something is being done.....and so people won't question why there isn't a PI working the case.

SHinS

03-17-2008, 02:15 PM

Originally posted by ThruTheTrees
[/*]

It seems that not just Christine has a very obvious focus on MONEY, but her "friends" do too. Sad really. [/*][/QUOTE]

Sure looks that way.

Another thing... is it just me or does it seem like the people [close] to NF who should be encouraging anyone trying to help find him are doing the complete opposite by trying to discourage them? This is a message I 'get' when I look at the whole picture: keep sending money but don't waiste your time looking for NF because he was likely "murdered".

IMO it doesn't make sense...or maybe it does but we're being kept in the dark :confused:

need2no

03-17-2008, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by Shelby1
What is the criteria needed to be added to the FBI missing persons list? [/*]

Missing Persons: 1. A person of any age who is missing and who is
under proven physical/mental disability or is senile, thereby
subjecting that person or others to personal and immediate danger.
2. A person of any age who is missing under circumstances indicating
that the disappearance was not voluntary.
3. A person of any age who is missing under circumstances indicating
that that person's physical safety may be in danger.
4. A person of any age who is missing after a catastrophe.
5. A person who is missing and declared unemancipated as defined by
the laws of the person's state of residence and does not meet any of the entry criteria set forth in 1-4 above.

http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/fbi/is/ncic.htm

HarlettOhara

03-17-2008, 02:21 PM

Originally posted by n/t

Are you saying you spoke to the detective and they told you no PI was hired or did you get this information from Christine? [/*]

Where did I say that "no" PI was hired... I said according to LE and Christine they do not know about a PI and have not been contacted by one.........

I think I am done here.. when you try to give some facts on something it gets twisted. I'm not in to playing games, I'm in to helping find people.

Before I do leave, one other fact... Nicholas Francisco and Viliamu Fale have no connection at all as far as LE is concerned.

n/t

03-17-2008, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by cteall

I ran into the same thing...but it had me set up a google account with my e-mail address, then a user name and password. I was able to successfully leave a little message for Nic :) [/*]

ok thanks. I'll do it from my home computer. :)

desmom

03-17-2008, 02:23 PM

Way back there was some discussion as to why an employer would hire a PI to look for one of their employees. In one of my many google searches, I read Publicis had close to 9,000 employees. Would they hire a PI for any other missing employee? Are they one of those companies that go the extra yard for their employees?

Why hire a PI? IMO, it does not make sense. I am sure they have several hundred employees that could use extra help with terminally ill or physically/mentally challenged family member. Does Publicis go the extra yard for them also?

IF Publicis did hire a PI and did not share the info with LE or NF's family, there is a lot more to why NF disappeared......

imo, jmo, moo

Musterion

03-17-2008, 02:24 PM

Oregongal said:

"If the kids were up anyway waiting to do those cookies, I myself would have piled them into their carseats and done some recon.
Sorry, I'm an ex military wife and I mean reconissance. IE: going out to check out his route, the places he was supposed to stop at and this would have been done after I had called his work, his friends, his family. I even once did wake up my live- in -with me daughter and we put her 3 yr old son, my grandson in the car and went and searched. So I have a hard time with the 'would have to drag the kids out too...' thing. If I hadn't found him, which I did, then maybe after I had taken my daughter and grandson home and back to bed and still had not found him, heard from him, that is when I may have called LE.
JMO"
"
The route that Christine would have had to take, at that time of night, could have taken her virtually hours. The traffic would more than likely been heavy into Seattle because there was, I believe, a game at Safeco Field. She could probably have not seen anything because it was dark. It would not be, IMO, wise for her to take two small children out then. They would be fussy, if they are typical for their age, tired and distracting to her.

As for contacting LE so 'soon' after he didn't come home. It seems, according to LE, that it is the wisest and recommended thing to do:

"You may have seen on television or heard that you must wait 24 or even 72 hours to report someone missing. This is not true. There is no required waiting period. In fact, the sooner law enforcement has a case the sooner they can get to work in helping you find the missing person. "

http://www.waspc.org/mp/mpresource.html

JMO.

need2no

03-17-2008, 02:24 PM

Originally posted by n/t

Thank you. I wonder if the information was given directly by the detective or through Christine. [/*]

Harlett would have to answer this n/t, I don't have any personal knowledge of where she gleaned the info. I'm just going by what Harlett stated on the board one day...that she had spoken to CF.

Shelby1

03-17-2008, 02:25 PM

Originally posted by need2no

Missing Persons: 1. A person of any age who is missing and who is
under proven physical/mental disability or is senile, thereby
subjecting that person or others to personal and immediate danger.
2. A person of any age who is missing under circumstances indicating
that the disappearance was not voluntary.
3. A person of any age who is missing under circumstances indicating
that that person's physical safety may be in danger.
4. A person of any age who is missing after a catastrophe.
5. A person who is missing and declared unemancipated as defined by
the laws of the person's state of residence and does not meet any of the entry criteria set forth in 1-4 above.

http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/fbi/is/ncic.htm [/*]

Thank you!

ThruTheTrees

03-17-2008, 02:29 PM

Originally posted by n/t
TTT, I wanted to leave a message on the site but I get a pop up window saying I need to sign in and it takes me to this page.

https://www.blogger.com/start

:shrug:

Can you please PM me what I need to do to post a message. Thank you so much! [/*]

Hi, I'll answer here instead of by PM since others may have the same question. I tried to set this up in the most simplest way, so you don't have to register with google/blogger and can post without any required "sign-in".

First, below the comment box, you should see a word verification box -- type in the letters there.

Then below that you should see the choices listed below (sorry, I can't make it show up formatted). If you don't already have one of the log-ins for google/blogger, etc., just click on one of the last 2 choices "Name/URL" (which lets you enter a name of your choice) or "Anonymous" at the bottom. The latter will show as "Anonymous" for the poster but you can still sign your name in the message if you wish.

I hope that works!

Choose an identity

Google/Blogger
Username
Password

No Google Account? Sign up here.
You can also use your Blogger account.

OpenID: OpenID LiveJournal WordPress TypePad AOL
LiveJournalWordPressTypePadAIM

__Name/URL
NAME:_______
URL:_______

__Anonymous

HarlettOhara

03-17-2008, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by n/t

I'm trying to determine if you are getting your information directly from LE or is it through Christine.

It makes a big difference. Also, wondering if LE would give out this kind of information to just anybody over the phone.

In my opinion, I highly doubt they would tell a stranger who calls about a PI hired or not.

Hey I didn't bring it up, you did and I think I'm entitled to question where you're getting this information. Usually posters who post something as fact, need to provide a link. I guess CW can clarify that for me in this situation.:shrug: [/*]

1.. I am a licensed PI and when working a case, and can prove I am working on a case, LE will give certain information. So yes, by all means, get CW to clarify for you. I have no problem with it whatsoever.

2.. No, Christine is not paying me.. I offered my services for free. I have also volunteered my services to any PI in WA that may have a case on this side of the country to trade services so there will be a PI out there trying to help locate Nicholas.

Musterion

03-17-2008, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by HarlettOhara

Where did I say that "no" PI was hired... I said according to LE and Christine they do not know about a PI and have not been contacted by one.........

I think I am done here.. when you try to give some facts on something it gets twisted. I'm not in to playing games, I'm in to helping find people.

Before I do leave, one other fact... Nicholas Francisco and Viliamu Fale have no connection at all as far as LE is concerned. [/*]

I understand and can't blame you, Harlett. But, I hope you reconsider because you are a valuable resource for this case.

Thank you for the good info you have given.

n/t

03-17-2008, 02:43 PM

Originally posted by HarlettOhara

1.. I am a licensed PI and when working a case, and can prove I am working on a case, LE will give certain information. So yes, by all means, get CW to clarify for you. I have no problem with it whatsoever.

2.. No, Christine is not paying me.. I offered my services for free. I have also volunteered my services to any PI in WA that may have a case on this side of the country to trade services so there will be a PI out there trying to help locate Nicholas. [/*]

I never said Christine was paying you and not sure where you thought I implied that.

I thought my question was very simple. I wanted to know if the information given to you about the PI was from LE or Christine?

desmom

03-17-2008, 02:44 PM

Originally posted by Postergeist

Hi ya n/t! I've only been lurking some on this case over the past few weeks (Tam has filled me in some as well as to some of the latest) but figured you might know some things.

Forgive me if this has already been discussed weeks ago.

I know that Nicholas' wife had posted about wanting to know any user names and anyone that might've posted with him as he had several places that he posted on and was wondering if LE had looked into their home computers at all?

I was wondering if they also looked into the communities that Christine posts as well.

Thinking if she is very open and unguarded posting online, if there was a possibility that someone where she frequents on line took some sort of dangerous interest in her and was able to track down Nicholas that way.

Reading her recent posts about the likeliness of losing their home and filing for bankruptcy
http://supportingchristine.wordpress.com/2008/02/24/supporting-christine-with-word-prayer-and-action/#comment-233

made me think she may have given TMI over the years online and confided in someone that was weaving a web. [/*]

:seeya:

Hmmm, I don't think this is a scenario that has been discussed. CF has been pretty open about their lives on public boards.

Cat Toy was doing a little reading on facebook recently. She posted:

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?postid=11380452&highlight=poking#post11380452

But, what is CF doing poking really handsome guys on facebook weeks before her husband leaves? And, just what does her online behavior show; during that first week he was just "gone"......

--snipped--

Cat Toy I hope your surgery went well today. :rose:

Postergeist

03-17-2008, 02:47 PM

What a nice thing to do for Nicholas!

It was later learned that Shawn Hornbeck did indeed post to a site that was up during his years of being held captive, if only LE had enough hours and manpower maybe that would've been resolved sooner before Ben Ownby was kidnapped.

It was the internet that helped ID Baby Grace as Baby Riley, so the more info that's out there, the more chances of tips and leads coming in.

:)

need2no

03-17-2008, 02:51 PM

Postergeist

03-17-2008, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by n/t

Hiya Postie. So good to see you! :seeya:

As far as I know, LE has not come forward to say the home computers were checked. IIRC, the only records that were mentioned were their financial records.

You're theory is another good possibility. There is a lot of Francisco information out there.

Good to "see" you too as well as so many of the "usual suspects" LOL I tend to post with on other cases.

We've got a good bunch here always trying to connect the odd dots to help find a solution.

Has TES been asked to help search at all?

:seeya:

need2no

03-17-2008, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by Postergeist
What a nice thing to do for Nicholas!

It was later learned that Shawn Hornbeck did indeed post to a site that was up during his years of being held captive, if only LE had enough hours and manpower maybe that would've been resolved sooner before Ben Ownby was kidnapped.

It was the internet that helped ID Baby Grace as Baby Riley, so the more info that's out there, the more chances of tips and leads coming in.

:) [/*]

Glad you mentioned this, I hadn't thought about how Shawn had posted on his site. I just cried when I heard he had been located...what a miracle!

n/t

03-17-2008, 03:00 PM

Originally posted by Postergeist

Good to "see" you too as well as so many of the "usual suspects" LOL I tend to post with on other cases.

We've got a good bunch here always trying to connect the odd dots to help find a solution.

Has TES been asked to help search at all?

:seeya: [/*]

Not that I'm aware of. It was suggested here numerous times.

Postergeist

03-17-2008, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by desmom

:seeya:

Hmmm, I don't think this is a scenario that has been discussed. CF has been pretty open about their lives on public boards.

Cat Toy was doing a little reading on facebook recently. She posted:

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?postid=11380452&highlight=poking#post11380452

Cat Toy I hope your surgery went well today. :rose:

Oh my! I hadn't seen the remarks about the facebook activities!!

That I don't believe made it to the Linky Thread, lol.

We have a former neighbor that took a strong liking to me, every now and then when he's drunk he'll call. Hubby is aware of this guy's crush and it was nothing I encouraged. There's a big dif between warranted and unwarranted attention.

IMO, when a spouse goes missing the one's whose whereabouts are still accountable need to look over their activities with a fine tooth comb as well to see if they may very well have a connection to a POI whether they encouraged it or not.

(I too hope Cat Toy is healing well, didn't know she was due for a surgery)

:seeya:

Musterion

03-17-2008, 03:05 PM

Originally posted by n/t

I thought my question was very simple. I wanted to know if the information given to you about the PI was from LE or Christine? [/*]

But, you didn't just ask the question. That's not true. Instead of just asking the question you added comments to the post. Comments that seem to only be said for one reason: to inflame emotion. Why else would they be said? Are they helpful? They are opinion, yes. But, do they need to be said? I don't see why.

This is where many seem to get frustrated. Asking questions of Christine is ok. They may need to be asked. But, the comments after the questions seem to disrupt the even flow of what could be a credible investigation. IMO.

HarlettOhara

03-17-2008, 03:07 PM

Originally posted by n/t

I never said Christine was paying you and not sure where you thought I implied that.

I thought my question was very simple. I wanted to know if the information given to you about the PI was from LE or Christine? [/*]

I only added the part about not getting paid as i knew someone would probably ask that questions somewhere along the line.

As for where my information comes from, I can not tell you the source(s) of the information... that would be unethical for me to do. My only purpose for giving what information I did was to hopefully put some rumors to rest. It can be believed or torn apart, I really don't care... As I said, I am done giving any more information because if it doesn't follow the popular opinion it has no merit here.

Postergeist

03-17-2008, 03:07 PM

Originally posted by need2no

Glad you mentioned this, I hadn't thought about how Shawn had posted on his site. I just cried when I heard he had been located...what a miracle!

Indeed a miracle! In a CNN article in Jan. 07 they mentioned that (tho our board was aware of it way back when)

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/01/15/missouri.boys/index.html

<snip>

Internet access investigated

Questions about what Shawn believed deepened Monday.

Web sites that track crime posted links to Internet profiles that someone placed online using the last name Devlin -- an indication that Shawn may have had Internet access.

On December 1, 2005, someone identifying himself as Shawn Devlin of Kirkwood posted a message on a Web site that Shawn's parents had set up, www.shawnhornbeck.com.

....

If Nic still has is faculities about him, there are many places to go to that have free 'net access, so maybe he will go online as well.

Hoping for the best for NF.

Postergeist

03-17-2008, 03:13 PM

Originally posted by Beth
Hiya Postergeist,
TES... ah yes. It's been brought up many times and even by CF herself. No, he's not on the TES site and many of us wonder why. Seems to be a subject that's danced around. Maybe you can figure the TES angle out? :)

Hi ya Beth!

I did see on the news that TES is doing the search for the other Nicholas that's missing, (Garza) the 18 YO missing from Vermont.

TES came out to my state and were the ones that helped find one of our missing AL persons, a young man, that last I heard was still ruled a suicide.

With as many employees at NF's workplace, has there been a huge # already go out on the searches that have already been done?

n/t

03-17-2008, 03:13 PM

Originally posted by Musterion

But, you didn't just ask the question. That's not true. Instead of just asking the question you added comments to the post. Comments that seem to only be said for one reason: to inflame emotion. Why else would they be said? Are they helpful? They are opinion, yes. But, do they need to be said? I don't see why.

This is where many seem to get frustrated. Asking questions of Christine is ok. They may need to be asked. But, the comments after the questions seem to disrupt the even flow of what could be a credible investigation. IMO. [/*]

I'm sorry you saw it that way but those are the rules of the board, as far as I know. If someone states something as fact, they need to provide a link. For me, it makes a big difference if the information comes directly from LE versus Christine herself.

I don't treat Christine's words as gospel, if you know what I mean. I don't remember who posted it the other day. There are always 2 sides to a story and somewhere in the middle is the truth.

And that's what we're trying to get at. The truth. Unfortunatley, Nicholas doesn't have a voice.

dianaelaine

03-17-2008, 03:14 PM

What I'm wondering is, why does everything have to be so SECRET?

It seems there's so much hush-hush here on things, information, etc.

Why?

If it's an open case .... everything should be open .. unless there's a reason for keeping quiet.

decor

03-17-2008, 03:19 PM

The truth. Unfortunatley, Nicholas doesn't have a voice

people keep saying this and it is ONLY true if he is deceased or being held against his will which I find highly unlikely.

If he left on his own he does have a voice but just chooses not to use it.

so until we all know one way or the other other we don't KNOW if he has a voice or not.

n/t

03-17-2008, 03:20 PM

Never thought of it that way, BethE. Good point and a real eye opener.

Musterion

03-17-2008, 03:20 PM

Originally posted by n/t

I'm sorry you saw it that way but those are the rules of the board, as far as I know. If someone states something as fact, they need to provide a link. For me, it makes a big difference if the information comes directly from LE versus Christine herself.

I don't treat Christine's words as gospel, if you know what I mean. I don't remember who posted it the other day. There are always 2 sides to a story and somewhere in the middle is the truth.

And that's what we're trying to get at. The truth. Unfortunatley, Nicholas doesn't have a voice. [/*]

Don't be sorry. I agree with the rules.

And if just the question had been asked without comments then we wouldn't be having this dialogue. IMO.

decor

03-17-2008, 03:21 PM

Originally posted by Beth Engleman

Because knowledge equals power and those who have it keep it even if it damages the cause. [/*]

which cause would that be?

huskiki

03-17-2008, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by Postergeist

Hi ya Beth!

I did see on the news that TES is doing the search for the other Nicholas that's missing, (Garza) the 18 YO missing from Vermont.

TES came out to my state and were the ones that helped find one of our missing AL persons, a young man, that last I heard was still ruled a suicide.

With as many employees at NF's workplace, has there been a huge # already go out on the searches that have already been done? [/*]

TES is a wonderful organization. They will also be helping in the search for Jaliek Rainwalker once the weather improves.

I think I remember reading that his co-workers gathered to search for Nicholas. There just hasn't been any recent searches that we know of. :shrug:

Shelby1

03-17-2008, 03:30 PM

Originally posted by Postergeist

Hi ya Shelby! I know, his parents are an inspiration as well. All the happy endings (like Elizabeth Smart, & some of the other girls found since then alive, one in the UK IRRC) still make my heart smile.

(PS- I still think of Matthew Wilson, as my hubby attended a music class at Rice years ago)

:rose: [/*]

Yes, another person that seems to have disappeared into thin air!

ThruTheTrees

03-17-2008, 03:35 PM

Originally posted by PerneciaJane

Cteal,
She told you the reason, if you read the entire post. [/*]

Pernecia, I'm still stuck on yesterday's puzzle -- who your mother is, that frequents this board? You may have missed my question from late last night. Is Hubbard your mother?

Postergeist

03-17-2008, 03:42 PM

Originally posted by huskiki

TES is a wonderful organization. They will also be helping in the search for Jaliek Rainwalker once the weather improves.

I think I remember reading that his co-workers gathered to search for Nicholas. There just hasn't been any recent searches that we know of. :shrug:

I too hope that there is resolution for Jaliek soon, it's been so long now with no info. :(

I still can't find a # of how many people were out with the searches, tho it does seem quite a lot of ground was covered -

http://nicholasfrancisco.blogspot.com/2008/02/canvased-areas-as-of-218-410pm.html

Unless he's somewhere on private property vs. public it may take a tip for LE to find him (thinking of the Maria Lauterbach case)

SeattleEddie

03-17-2008, 03:55 PM

Originally posted by Beth Engleman

Because knowledge equals power and those who have it keep it even if it damages the cause. [/*]

And implied knowledge equals perceived power. ;)

need2no

03-17-2008, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by cteall
Things are just not adding up here and I am finding it very strange. A poster can come on and give what we see as new information. Then when they are asked for the source of the new information they can say something to the effect that they cannot tell us where they got the information. This just doesn't add up. Something tells me they don't WANT to tell us where they got the information, but they wanted to make sure we had the information. ?????? [/*]

I suppose as far as this board is concerned Harlett is just another poster here like the rest of us. But you might be interested in checking out her website (HFTM) to understand her interest in ALL missing persons, her expertise, knowledge, personal experience and reason for her involvement in this case.

I can say with absolute certainty Harlett is not coming here to stir the pot, or post and run. She has come here and generously shared information in an effort to help us with our 'investigation' and speculations about this case.

In her role she can only share so much info without crossing the line of trust with the person or persons who are providing her information. From reading her earlier posts my understanding is she has spoken with CF and LE, neither of which are aware of a PI currently working on this case. She has also stated neither LE or CF believe VF has anything to do with NF's case.

I hope this clears some confusion.

Sorry, I forgot to post the link:
http://helpfindthemissing.org/forum/index.php

huskiki

03-17-2008, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by Postergeist

I too hope that there is resolution for Jaliek soon, it's been so long now with no info. :(

I still can't find a # of how many people were out with the searches, tho it does seem quite a lot of ground was covered -

http://nicholasfrancisco.blogspot.com/2008/02/canvased-areas-as-of-218-410pm.html

Unless he's somewhere on private property vs. public it may take a tip for LE to find him (thinking of the Maria Lauterbach case) [/*]

Good point, if he's on private property he might never be found, if he's dead or being held captive. Even though a lot of ground might have been covered I think that TES would have a better chance of finding Nicholas. Remember Brandi Laurent, she was found less than a mile from her home and she had been missing for 3 months :(

decor

03-17-2008, 03:57 PM

In saw that Harlett posted asking for volunteers in the WA area.
just wondering if anyone took her up on it.

huskiki

03-17-2008, 03:58 PM

Originally posted by decor
In saw that Harlett posted asking for volunteers in the WA area.
just wondering if anyone took her up on it. [/*]

I would if I lived in WA.

decor

03-17-2008, 04:00 PM

Originally posted by huskiki

I would if I lived in WA. [/*]

good to know that you can be counted on if ever needed. :)

decor

03-17-2008, 04:02 PM

is there a list on this site of people who would be willing to help if something happened in their area?

might be a good thing to have on hand since so many people here want to do something about all of the people that turn up missing every year.

huskiki

03-17-2008, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by decor

good to know that you can be counted on if ever needed. :) [/*]

Thank you. You're probably not familiar with Jaliek Rainwalker's case (there's a thread for him here), I have signed up to help search for him once the snow and ice melts. Too many missing people and not enough resources dedicated to them.

decor

03-17-2008, 04:07 PM

Originally posted by huskiki

Thank you. You're probably not familiar with Jaliek Rainwalker's case (there's a thread for him here), I have signed up to help search for him once the snow and ice melts. Too many missing people and not enough resources dedicated to them. [/*]

I have to say I was not familiar with most of the people that are missing.
Since being here I have looked over quite a few of the sites that have been posted and it was so overwhelming that I decided that I can only concentrate on one at a time.

The sadness is sometimes too much to bear.

So many people here talk about not being able to sleep and wanting answers and wishing they could something to solve this I thought it would be good if those people signed up so they could be contacted immediately if they were needed in their area.

decor

03-17-2008, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by Beth
I wasn't above driving up to Reno to help look for Brianna Denison and that's a good 7 hour drive. My husband had to beg me to stay home and be with my own small children.

I don't know of any list and I don't know what good it would do. Seems like a list would be contingent on people's plans and would change on a day to day basis. [/*]

I agree with your husband. A 7 hour drive was a little too much.

If people signed up with only the state they reside in then they could be contacted to see if they live near enough to where an incident may have happened.

decor

03-17-2008, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by Beth
Decor,
I'm sure the people who think about this and genuinely keep this case close to their heart, would be the people that would be the first to sign up in their area if needed.

I don't need my name on a list to prove to myself or anybody else, that I would be there for a stranger in a time of need. In fact, if somebody needs that type of validation, I would seriously question their motives in the first place. [/*]

hey beth.
I didn't ask you to sign up for anything.
I didn't ask you to prove anything.

It was an IDEA. it has nothing to do with you personally.

Postergeist

03-17-2008, 04:13 PM

Originally posted by huskiki

Good point, if he's on private property he might never be found, if he's dead or being held captive. Even though a lot of ground might have been covered I think that TES would have a better chance of finding Nicholas. Remember Brandi Laurent, she was found less than a mile from her home and she had been missing for 3 months :(

Yes, I do recall the Brandi case and what a shocker, as it seems that area HAD been searched by LE and some of the local folks and yet it took the TES volunteers to find her remains that close to the house.

I do wonder what better grid searches or techniques TES incorporates that the various LE in the country don't seem to follow? Do they have a DVD available to send to the local LE on how to do searches when TES isn't able to search for that particular missing person?

I find it hard to imagine that only TES has the secret to successful searches...or their volunteers are just more diligent.

:shrug:

huskiki

03-17-2008, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by decor

I have to say I was not familiar with most of the people that are missing.
Since being here I have looked over quite a few of the sites that have been posted and it was so overwhelming that I decided that I can only concentrate on one at a time.

The sadness is sometimes too much to bear.

So many people here talk about not being able to sleep and wanting answers and wishing they could something to solve this I thought it would be good if those people signed up so they could be contacted immediately if they were needed in their area. [/*]

There are a lot of sad cases here, too many missing to keep track of really. Every once and a while someone is found safe and it makes you feel good.

I do not know if there is a National database for people willing to seach when someone goes missing in their area but that's a great idea. There are many people who would happily donate their time to help.

huskiki

03-17-2008, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by Postergeist

Yes, I do recall the Brandi case and what a shocker, as it seems that area HAD been searched by LE and some of the local folks and yet it took the TES volunteers to find her remains that close to the house.

I do wonder what better grid searches or techniques TES incorporates that the various LE in the country don't seem to follow? Do they have a DVD available to send to the local LE on how to do searches when TES isn't able to search for that particular missing person?

I find it hard to imagine that only TES has the secret to successful searches...or their volunteers are just more diligent.

:shrug: [/*]

Scary isn't it? One mile from home for 3 months and it took TES to come in and find her. It didn't take them long either.

My guess is that they have gained so much experience. How often does local LE deal with murder or missing person cases? We had a murder here in upstate NY, Peter Porco, and the local police were criticized on their investigation. It's hard to say when to call in someone else on a case I guess. LE isn't going to want the FBI over them but sometimes it's needed.

Now that you mentioned the DVD, I wonder if they do sell one. Or maybe have seminars.

SeattleEddie

03-17-2008, 04:22 PM

You know, if I were an alien, just popped in from another planet, I would have to ask the question:

What evidence is there that he is still missing?

LE is not actively looking, no news from them

His parents don't appear to be searching

News stories have gone cold..... The last one was simply: no news

There don't seem to be any paid private investigators or private search teams working this case

His place of employment is silent

His parents and family are silent

His friends are silent

LE is silent

The only one who is not silent is the wife (and her fan club), and that's not about finding NF, but about her various and sundry difficulties.

Why did wife leave only photo of herself on her site?

The pieces that are left tell a story

Postergeist

03-17-2008, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by Beth
Decor,
I'm sure the people who think about this and genuinely keep this case close to their heart, would be the people that would be the first to sign up in their area if needed.

<snip>

Some of the missing people I've posted about in my state and adjoining states I've never seen volunteers asked for, others the families or LE have asked for volunteers and I've posted the info to that.

Sadly, my local news often does just a little blip on a missing person and I've spent hours surfing the net trying to find more news to get the word out there.

I'd volunteer to search but with a caveat, I'd think I'd want professional people there to help guide it, as knowing my luck I'd be the one to get bit by a rattlesnake or fall in some sink hole and then they'd be calling for a medic to get me outta there. lol

Then, there are some areas of town that I would not feel comfortable in during the daylight and even if I was packing. imo

Shelby1

03-17-2008, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by SeattleEddie
You know, if I were an alien, just popped in from another planet, I would have to ask the question:

What evidence is there that he is still missing?

LE is not actively looking, no news from them

His parents don't appear to be searching

News stories have gone cold..... The last one was simply: no news

There don't seem to be any paid private investigators or private search teams working this case

His place of employment is silent

His parents and family are silent

His friends are silent

LE is silent

The only one who is not silent is the wife (and her fan club), and that's not about finding NF, but about her various and sundry difficulties.

Why did wife leave only photo of herself on her site?

The pieces that are left tell a story [/*]

I couldn't have said this any better.

Mrs.Butterworth

03-17-2008, 04:24 PM

Shelby1

03-17-2008, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by sherryhefner
Are we sure then that Publicis did not hire a PI? Was that just a rumor?

I thought I had read that the company had hired a PI to help search for Nicholas? [/*]

You probably read that here:

http://agencyspy.wordpress.com/2008/02/18/art-director-missing-nicholas-francisco/

However, Harlott said earlier that neither CF nor LE has been contacted by a PI.

edited for spelling

Postergeist

03-17-2008, 04:31 PM

Originally posted by Shelby1

I couldn't have said this any better.

oops, I was posting and didn't see CW's post.

Hmm, then LE no longer consider this a "missing person" case and no longer consider this an open case on that?

I can't see him being put in a Witness Protection Program, as that allows the family to be entered into that as well, right?

need2no

03-17-2008, 04:35 PM

Originally posted by Postergeist

oops, I was posting and didn't see CW's post.

Hmm, then LE no longer consider this a "missing person" case and no longer consider this an open case on that?

I can't see him being put in a Witness Protection Program, as that allows the family to be entered into that as well, right? [/*]

I don't see how CF and children wouldn't also be part of the WPP...say a perp was after NF so the FBI hid him, then they may come after CF thinking she knew where he was hiding, or had the info they were looking for, or for retaliation against NF. Or... to get him to come out of hiding they might kidnap CF and children.
Not a chance he is in WPP, IMO.

desmom

03-17-2008, 04:36 PM

I wonder if LE has the results from NF's car. I know it was reported LE did not find any signs of foul play in the car. I am curious if the driver's seat and mirrors were in the position for someone NF's height, the radio was tuned to a station NF listened to regularly, was there anything in the car that should not have been (i.e. candy wrapper, cigarette butts), was there anything missing, any unidentifiable fingerprints.....

Mrs.Butterworth

03-17-2008, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by Postergeist

oops, I was posting and didn't see CW's post.

Hmm, then LE no longer consider this a "missing person" case and no longer consider this an open case on that?

I can't see him being put in a Witness Protection Program, as that allows the family to be entered into that as well, right? [/*]

If they stopped looking and if they have no more leads or people to question, does the trail just become cold and they file it away or do they come out and publicly state -- "we're done looking - we're closing our case" or anything to that effect?

Wouldn't family or friends be enraged if the LE is pushing this aside already?? I know I would be.

Shelby1

03-17-2008, 04:37 PM

SeattleEddie

03-17-2008, 04:37 PM

Originally posted by Shelby1

You probably read that here:

http://agencyspy.wordpress.com/2008/02/18/art-director-missing-nicholas-francisco/

However, Harlott said earlier that neither CF nor LE has been contacted by a PI.

edited for spelling [/*]

The date of that posting is Feb. 18.

Another thing, if someone in my family went missing and I couldn't afford to hire a professional search team, I would mortgage the house to do it.

What's most interesting in this case is what's notbeing said and what's not being done.

My opinion strictly.

abstr

03-17-2008, 04:38 PM

I am so far behind on the posts....but just wanted to say...I don't think that sounds so rare....1000 people is not that many to me. MOO
Originally posted by n/t
I just read the link about dissociative fugue. 1 in 1000 people. That is a lot of people!! :eek: [/*]

Shelby1

03-17-2008, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by abstr
I am so far behind on the posts....but just wanted to say...I don't think that sounds so rare....1000 people is not that many to me. MOO
[/*]

I think that's what n/t meant--she meant 1 in 1000 would be quite a few people affected by this.

desmom

03-17-2008, 04:41 PM

IF NF's employer hired a PI, do they have to tell LE or the family? Would they have to share any info uncovered by the PI with LE?

TIA

Shelby1

03-17-2008, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by desmom
IF NF's employer hired a PI, do they have to tell LE or the family? Would they have to share any info uncovered by the PI with LE?

TIA [/*]

I guess they wouldn't have to, but I would think that interviewing the family would be one of the first things done by the PI :shrug:

AMS

03-17-2008, 04:43 PM

Originally posted by Coldwater
What's your choice - stay on topic or close forum until there is breaking news??

It can happen, it just did with another subject. [/*]

My vote is to stay on topic. CW, are you talking about the girl fromt he UK or is there breaking news on a differnt person?

AMS

PerneciaJane

03-17-2008, 04:46 PM

Postergeist

03-17-2008, 04:46 PM

Originally posted by Mrs.Butterworth

If they stopped looking and if they have no more leads or people to question, does the trail just become cold and they file it away or do they come out and publicly state -- "we're done looking - we're closing our case" or anything to that effect?

Wouldn't family or friends be enraged if the LE is pushing this aside already?? I know I would be.

IRRC, most times when there are no new leads/tips coming in, LE usually says they are still working the case, it's still active but they've reduced the # of manpower devoted to it.

Does it seem like the local buzz has even died down on this?

(I just checked & yep, I thought this thread got smaller, I was right, my first post here got deleted, apparently for being O/T, when I mentioned if computers have been looked at by LE...fine line here)

desmom

03-17-2008, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by Shelby1

I guess they wouldn't have to, but I would think that interviewing the family would be one of the first things done by the PI :shrug: [/*]

That was my feeling also.

I just don't about the PI rumor. Unless NF stole company secrets, I don't see a company as large as Publicis hiring a PI to look for a missing employee.

jmo

ThruTheTrees

03-17-2008, 04:49 PM

Originally posted by Shelby1

I guess they wouldn't have to, but I would think that interviewing the family would be one of the first things done by the PI :shrug: [/*]

Yes, this seems strange to me -- even if they were investigating something work-related, I think they would still try and contact Christine directly. So if in fact they haven't contacted her, then that really makes me wonder if there ever was a PI hired by his employer.

desmom

03-17-2008, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by Beth Engleman

Yes, but where would you search? With so much of the information being hidden, we don't know where he was last seen (we think we know but don't) , what he said to co-workers (we have only just a few sentences of vague information) and what he told his family. (they aren't talking)

The trail stops........the minute he gets into his car and drives off.

It's almost as if somebody doesn't want him found. The question is, why?

Before you dismiss this.....please think it through. Why woudn't someone want him found. [/*]

To keep him quiet?

$$?

Shelby1

03-17-2008, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by ThruTheTrees

Yes, this seems strange to me -- even if they were investigating something work-related, I think they would still try and contact Christine directly. So if in fact they haven't contacted her, then that really makes me wonder if there ever was a PI hired by his employer. [/*]

Me too, TTT. Me too.

isitme

03-17-2008, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by Beth Engleman

Yes, but where would you search? With so much of the information being hidden, we don't know where he was last seen (we think we know but don't) , what he said to co-workers (we have only just a few sentences of vague information) and what he told his family. (they aren't talking)

The trail stops........ the minute he gets into his car and drives off.[/*]

It's almost as if somebody doesn't want him found. The question is, why?

Before you dismiss this.....please think it through. Why woudn't someone want him found. [/*]

Do we really know for sure that he even got into his car and drove off??

saydeezmom

03-17-2008, 05:03 PM

has it been said on any blog or report if NF had been sick lately? when was the last time he had been sick? when was the last time he had seen a dr? did he have problems with anxiety or panic attacks? just curious

nanabillie

03-17-2008, 05:08 PM

This is just my opinion, now. I have read a good many things about this guy that is missing, but certainly nothing like all of you have. I have read several things about why the wife needs money, why she isn't working, why not get money from their familyies, now why wouldn't she morgage her house for a PI.

I just don't know what I would do in her situation. Neither of our families could, or would, spare any money for a PI. At one time in
our marriage we had two morgages on our house. I sure could not have gotten another one. I am not sure, but was thinking they had a new house. If so it is doubtful she could get money on it now. Friends are probably getting tapped out. As far as getting a job, with two in day care she would not clear a lot, especially having to take whatever a pregnant woman could get.
Not around here, anyway. In our area most jobs are minimum wage and two kids in daycare about $150 wk, at least. Then gas to and from. If she has family that can take care of them, great!
I, along with everyone, wish they could find him. If he wants out of the marriage she could at least get child support. And if need be, she could sell the house. But not as long as he is missing.

One question: When he was first missing there was a woman on tv talking about her husband disappearing. She kept saying, "He's not a coward. He would not just leave." Was that this case or another?

desmom

03-17-2008, 05:09 PM

Originally posted by saydeezmom
has it been said on any blog or report if NF had been sick lately? when was the last time he had been sick? when was the last time he had seen a dr? did he have problems with anxiety or panic attacks? just curious [/*]

The whole family was sick the weekend before he disappeared according to http://thedonovanfamily.blogspot.com/2008/02/illness.html

Shelby1

03-17-2008, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by nanabillie

One question: When he was first missing there was a woman on tv talking about her husband disappearing. She kept saying, "He's not a coward. He would not just leave." Was that this case or another? [/*]

Yes, that was Christine Francisco.

Track292003

03-17-2008, 05:15 PM

Originally posted by nanabillie
[snipped]:

One question: When he was first missing there was a woman on tv talking about her husband disappearing. She kept saying, "He's not a coward. He would not just leave." Was that this case or another? [/*]
------------------------------------

IIRC, that was this case, and Nicholas's wife, Christine, also made remarks to the effect that if Nicholas had left of his own volition, he would have taken them (meaning the kids and herself) with him. That remark did raise some eyebrows at the time.

MOO.

Nellie

03-17-2008, 05:20 PM

Originally posted by Track292003

------------------------------------

IIRC, that was this case, and Nicholas's wife, Christine, also made remarks to the effect that if Nicholas had left of his own volition, he would have taken them (meaning the kids and herself) with him. That remark did raise some eyebrows at the time.

MOO. [/*]

...kinda like...it's ok if he takes off, as long as he took us with him....

I think it was an odd statement to make myself.

desmom

03-17-2008, 05:46 PM

Originally posted by isitme

Do we really know for sure that he even got into his car and drove off?? [/*]

Towards the bottom of http://nicholasfrancisco.blogspot.com/2008/02/canvased-areas-as-of-218.html there is a post that the night shift employee is almost certain she saw the car Wednesday evening at the Shell station on Enchanted Parkway .

http://www.komotv.com/news/15682797.html reports a possible sighting at a Shell Station on Elliot - the witness recognized NF from his photo and also a report of seeing his car at a Burien public storage.

Postergeist

03-17-2008, 05:47 PM

Originally posted by nanabillie
<snip>

This is just my opinion, now. I have read a good many things about this guy that is missing, but certainly nothing like all of you have. I have read several things about why the wife needs money, why she isn't working, why not get money from their familyies, now why wouldn't she morgage her house for a PI.

I just don't know what I would do in her situation. Neither of our families could, or would, spare any money for a PI.

Within a week family/friends of the Franciscos set up a fund that can be made at the area banks.

http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/thebigblog/archives/132425.asp

http://voxpopnetwork.com/westseattle/2008/02/17/urgent-message-regarding-nicholas-francisco/

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004196637_francisco23m.html This article mentions 'he is not a coward' along with the Family Fund being set up.

(BTW- O/T but there is another missing person from West Seattle, a 14 YO girl)

Track292003

03-17-2008, 05:54 PM

Originally posted by isitme

Do we really know for sure that he even got into his car and drove off?? [/*]
------

Good question!

We don't know for sure that he got in his car and drove off. IIRC, the last person to see him was the co-worker who came out of the Publicis building at the same time and said Nicholas was heading up a hill -- on foot.

MOO.

KKKKKKatie

03-17-2008, 05:56 PM

Originally posted by Track292003

------

Good question!

We don't know for sure that he got in his car and drove off. IIRC, the last person to see him was the co-worker who came out of the Publicis building at the same time and said Nicholas was heading up a hill.

MOO. [/*]

yep...so it could be that he got into a car with someone else or was forced into another car...or just kept on walking :shrug:

isitme

03-17-2008, 06:01 PM

Originally posted by desmom

Towards the bottom of http://nicholasfrancisco.blogspot.com/2008/02/canvased-areas-as-of-218.html there is a post that the night shift employee is almost certain she saw the car Wednesday evening at the Shell station on Enchanted Parkway .

http://www.komotv.com/news/15682797.html reports a possible sighting at a Shell Station on Elliot - the witness recognized NF from his photo and also a report of seeing his car at a Burien public storage. [/*]

But how much weight can we give to a statement made by someone that does not know NF and states that she is almost certain she saw the car. Likewise the possible sightings at the Shell Station and the public storage. None of these have been confirmed as fact. And know that witnesses can easily make mistakes about these things.

For me, I would tend to rely on the LAST sighting to be the fellow employee that spoke to him as they were leaving work. At least this person KNOWS it was NF he was speaking with.

Track292003

03-17-2008, 06:04 PM

Originally posted by KKKKKKatie

yep...so it could be that he got into a car with someone else or was forced into another car...or just kept on walking :shrug: [/*]

Any one of those three scenarios could have happened....

desmom

03-17-2008, 06:12 PM

Originally posted by isitme

But how much weight can we give to a statement made by someone that does not know NF and states that she is almost certain she saw the car. Likewise the possible sightings at the Shell Station and the public storage. None of these have been confirmed as fact. And know that witnesses can easily make mistakes about these things.

For me, I would tend to rely on the LAST sighting to be the fellow employee that spoke to him as they were leaving work. At least this person KNOWS it was NF he was speaking with. [/*]

I agree.

I was posting the info that has been reported/posted about possible sightings. I do not recall LE confirming any of these sightings.

jmo

nanabillie

03-17-2008, 06:34 PM

The moment I heard the statement, He's no coward, he wouldn't do that to us, (paraphrasing), I thought she was talking to him!

PerneciaJane

03-17-2008, 06:41 PM

Originally posted by cteall
Found this article very interesting, not that it means anything.

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/features/The-man-who-helps-people.3878817.jp [/*]

That is a very interesting article,. Cteal

mc528

03-17-2008, 06:53 PM

Good evening all. Looks like I missed a few things here this afternoon.

It looks like there are others that have had the same questions about the PI that I've been pondering since 2/18 when I first read about it. I wonder if there is any way to find out if Publicis did indeed hire one. I know that CF and LE have apparently said they have no knowledge of one.....but would this PI have to contact either of them if their purpose of being hired, and locating NF, isn't the same as CF's and LE's? Just a thought...and JMO.

Does anyone have any thoughts on my other post earlier today?

Postergeist

03-17-2008, 06:56 PM

Originally posted by Beth

Can't we send them a picture?

Maybe it has to be officially submitted by the family?

I noticed that the craigslist for the SeaTac area had expired that listed the reward was no longer available and no new postings have been made for craigslist either about Nicholas.

Many of the blogs that were linked early in his disappearance don't have any recent posts since the end of February, but there are dozens of missing web sites that the family can contact to also get his name and poster out there (like someoneismissing.com, http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/kidmiss.htm http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/index.php
http://www.charleyproject.org/lynx/le.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/misslinks.html

etc. I think the flyers locally and any billboards may help bring any new tips and leads in as well, imo.

Postergeist

03-17-2008, 07:01 PM

Originally posted by mc528
<snip>.....but would this PI have to contact either of them if their purpose of being hired, and locating NF, isn't the same as CF's and LE's? Just a thought...and JMO.

Does anyone have any thoughts on my other post earlier today?

That thought crossed my mind as well but didn't know if I could post about it in case it was considered o/t.

But I did wonder when PI's are hired if it is common for them to talk/interview with local LE...or if they aren't hired by the family if they make their presence known to them?

But since one of our posters is also a PI, maybe she can say what is routine or not? (if that's allowed on this forum)

Not sure if I saw your earlier post (is it still showing, or did it get deleted?)

mc528

03-17-2008, 07:09 PM

Originally posted by Postergeist

snipped
Not sure if I saw your earlier post (is it still showing, or did it get deleted?) [/*]

Yes.....it's still up....page 2, I believe

Postergeist

03-17-2008, 07:21 PM

Originally posted by mc528

Yes.....it's still up....page 2, I believe

good! I did read your posts and did touch on #5 theory of yours in a post of mine, but alas, that no longer remains on the thread...so I guess I won't be commenting on your other scenarios due to the thin ice of the nature of that.

:(

but if I was LE and thought he was missing due to a nefarious reason, I would also be looking at activities both business and pleasure related that were internet associations by both spouses

Track292003

03-17-2008, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by cteall

[snipped}:

We may never get any answers.....JMO [/*]

The longer we go without any news at all, I'm afraid your conclusion will turn out to be right. So sad!

MOO.

Pam

03-17-2008, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by sherryhefner
I'm thinking LE must be leaning toward thinking Nic disappeared on his own. They may not admit to it out of respect to his family, but certainly if they had any idea from anything they've found that foul play could be involved, then we would be seeing more of them investigating this.

Not only is LE quiet, but Nic's family is quiet, his work is quiet and the media is staying clear of this story. This says to me that Nic has left of his own free will.... [/*]

The silence is puzzling, and just makes my feelings stronger that he left on his own.

Once again, I had to check in hoping for some good news that still hasn't come :(

Pam

03-17-2008, 08:21 PM

TTT, kudos to you for putting up a support site for Nicholas! (took me awhile to remember my Google account, lol)

HarlettOhara

03-17-2008, 08:29 PM

Originally posted by Beth
Thank you to all... for everything.
What a difference an hour gone can make.

I also just read an article last night that referenced the PI. Oh, I'm going to have to go find it, aren't I? ;) [/*]

Just so everyone is clear on this....

I NEVER said that a PI was NOT hired by Publicis... what I said is Christine and LE have NEVER been contacted by any PI.. but some decided to take that and run with my saying NO PI had been hired...

I can't believe how this has turned in to such a big deal... Again, There could be a PI.. if there is Christine and LE don't know about him/her.

Now you see why I am not posting any more info about anything, it gets twisted to many times.

Shelby1

03-17-2008, 08:35 PM

Originally posted by HarlettOhara

Just so everyone is clear on this....

I NEVER said that a PI was NOT hired by Publicis... what I said is Christine and LE have NEVER been contacted by any PI.. but some decided to take that and run with my saying NO PI had been hired...

I can't believe how this has turned in to such a big deal... Again, There could be a PI.. if there is Christine and LE don't know about him/her.

Now you see why I am not posting any more info about anything, it gets twisted to many times. [/*]

I don't think your message was twisted at all. I understand what you posted.

My opinion is that a PI hasn't been hired because surely he/she would have interviewed the family. Since Christine has not been contacted by a PI I conclude that one probably wasn't hired.

Pam

03-17-2008, 08:37 PM

mc528

03-17-2008, 08:39 PM

Originally posted by Postergeist

good! I did read your posts and did touch on #5 theory of yours in a post of mine, but alas, that no longer remains on the thread...so I guess I won't be commenting on your other scenarios due to the thin ice of the nature of that.

:(

but if I was LE and thought he was missing due to a nefarious reason, I would also be looking at activities both business and pleasure related that were internet associations by both spouses [/*]

Thanks. I guess I did miss quite a bit earlier today. Maybe someone could PM me with the gist of what I missed, so I don't inadvertantely venture into any subject that shouldn't be discussed. :confused:

tulipmom

03-17-2008, 08:45 PM

after you said that they had not been contacted... your next sentence said " they don't know anything about one being hired " So, did anyone keep a copy of CF's facts list before she took it down? Was it mentioned on there? I know that CF referred to a PI being hired somewhere. Now we just need to find her words....

ThruTheTrees

03-17-2008, 08:48 PM

Originally posted by nanabillie
The moment I heard the statement, He's no coward, he wouldn't do that to us, (paraphrasing), I thought she was talking to him! [/*]

Yup, me too!

tulipmom

03-17-2008, 08:52 PM

The coward comment was so strange to many. My first thought would not be " He's no coward " if my hubby was missing. It might be however if we had a previous fight etc. and I knew he was running from something or leaving me.

n/t

03-17-2008, 08:59 PM

Originally posted by Shelby1

I don't think your message was twisted at all. I understand what you posted.

My opinion is that a PI hasn't been hired because surely he/she would have interviewed the family. Since Christine has not been contacted by a PI I conclude that one probably wasn't hired. [/*]

Not necessarily. IF a PI was hired by Publicis, they may have their own reasons to do their own investigation independently. They may already know what they need to know. Let's not forget, he worked there for 6 years. It is my opinion that they may have access to computer records.

All speculation on my part.

n/t

03-17-2008, 09:00 PM

Originally posted by Beth

Do I dare say, I just read the "facts" list last night? (I really did!) [/*]

Was it on Christine's list before it was deleted?

HarlettOhara

03-17-2008, 09:01 PM

Originally posted by Beth
And Harlett, just so we're clear, I never meant to imply that you had or hadn't said that. I'm not sure if you quoted me because you thought I was questioning the P.I. (I wasn't), or if it was just a general FYI to all of us.

As for the P.I., it has never really been a concern of mine one way or the other. I was only stating that I had just read something about a PI last night.

I agree, your presence here is a good thing and the work you do is an amazing thing. :) [/*]

Sorry, it was just a general FYI...

Shelby1

03-17-2008, 09:03 PM

Originally posted by n/t

Not necessarily. IF a PI was hired by Publicis, they may have their own reasons to do their own investigation independently. They may already know what they need to know. Let's not forget, he worked there for 6 years. It is my opinion that they may have access to computer records.

All speculation on my part. [/*]

That's true if it's strictly an investigation about his business practices.

Although, I still think that a PI could gain insight from interviewing family about any topic in a persons life.

tulipmom

03-17-2008, 09:03 PM

remember? It seemed she changed it daily there for awhile. She would read stuff here and then go delete. I bet someone kept a complete list day by day though. I just seem to have a memory of her posting about the PI yet she must have told Harlett she knows nothing about a PI. I think she posted about the PI during that first week. Did she only post here and on her blog and the church site?

mc528

03-17-2008, 09:04 PM

Originally posted by n/t

Was it on Christine's list before it was deleted? [/*]

No, I do not believe there was aany mention of a PI on the blog entry. That would make sense, IMO, since Harlett has indicated that CF said she hasn't been contacted by a PI.

tulipmom

03-17-2008, 09:05 PM

makes it absolute?

n/t

03-17-2008, 09:07 PM

Originally posted by mc528

No, I do not believe there was aany mention of a PI on the blog entry. That would make sense, IMO, since Harlett has indicated that CF said she hasn't been contacted by a PI. [/*]

ok

n/t

03-17-2008, 09:23 PM

Originally posted by tulipmom
makes it absolute? [/*]

Not for me. Even if she goes through a middle person, doesn't mean I'll believe everything she says.

As I've stated before, there are many things I question. The costco and cookie stories are just 2 at the top of my list.

n/t

03-17-2008, 09:23 PM

Originally posted by Beth

Only if it was deleted from here! I read it on one of our own threads, just last night. Did we lose some? [/*]

I really don't know Beth.

Nellie

03-17-2008, 09:29 PM

Originally posted by tulipmom
remember? It seemed she changed it daily there for awhile. She would read stuff here and then go delete. I bet someone kept a complete list day by day though. [/*]

I bet! :D

n/t

03-17-2008, 09:34 PM

Originally posted by cteall

The cookie story is just a bit too "sweet" for me, I guess we are really not even sure that he didn't come home that night. [/*]

Exactly or if he even got to his car.

Postergeist

03-17-2008, 09:41 PM

Originally posted by n/t

Was it on Christine's list before it was deleted?

I've got to log off (CBS shows, lol) but did find that some of those things- or 'the list' - can be found on the cached pages of a certain blog by this individual,

it can also be found on the crime and justice board as well as subparspokane but I'm not certain which 'version' they have, if it's facts 1.0, V 2.0??

I did not see a mention of a PI on those sites that are viewable at this time tonight.

:shrug:

n/t

03-17-2008, 09:43 PM

Originally posted by Postergeist

I've got to log off (CBS shows, lol) but did find that some of those things- or 'the list' - can be found on the cached pages of a certain blog by this individual,

it can also be found on the crime and justice board as well as subparspokane but I'm not certain which 'version' they have, if it's facts 1.0, V 2.0??

I did not see a mention of a PI on those sites that are viewable at this time tonight.

:shrug: [/*]

Thanks Postie! Have a good night. Early night for me too. :seeya:

Shelby1

03-17-2008, 09:59 PM

:seeya: Good night everyone. See you in the morning,

Nellie

03-17-2008, 10:11 PM

I've looked through every one of her Blog versions and looked through her posts at Etsy (that I had saved) and have found no mention about a PI!

I do have to say though...if WE read about this PI and she's been reading everything all over the internet, then it would make sense she would have read it on that one site too....and even here. So I'm kinda surprised she never cleared that up.

soyesterday

03-17-2008, 11:11 PM

Hey guys
i've been away most of the afternoon
i have alot of catching up to do
if anyone wants to pm me and fill me in on anything big..
i'm going to clean my mailbox out so it will be free :)
APPLEDIPPER...i just pm'd you back. :seeya:

Oregongal

03-17-2008, 11:27 PM

Originally posted by sherryhefner
Let's just say, for theory's sake, that NF did make it home right after work....no cookies planned. What do any of you expect might have happened?

Most naturally, they had an argument...he left and she made up a story? Seems unlikely since neighbors would likely be able to verify his car at home that evening, as well as the kids. Wouldn't they be able to say, "Daddy came home?"

For these reasons, I don't think he made it home. But I do believe CF knows more about what has happened than she is revealing. [/*]

Sherry, I have a theory, but I am in the wait and see mode. As I've said before I trust LE and don't believe they have put this case in the cold file just yet. I feel they may be investigating to the best of their abilities for now and may know things that we can't possibly know. It's not up to LE to let the public know what they are doing in their investigations and I respect that.
A couple of questions I would have is...have the neighbors been questioned? Have the kids...at least for 4 yr old been spoken to?
Has the Franciscos property, either inside our out been looked at?
I do believe CF knows more than she has revealed, either publicly or to LE. Or maybe CF has revealed to LE things that haven't been made public or she that she hasn't revealed in her many posts to her blogs or to message boards.
These are the things we do not know, but I believe sometime down the line may be revealed.
I am trusting in LE and hoping they are doing things behind the scenes. Altho, 'we' want to know everything, sometimes it is unadvisable for them not to make their details or methods known to ANYONE. Which would include us...the public....and/or anyone else whom they may be investigating. It's only because CF went public so soon that we know of this case at all, except for the locals that is. They may not be happy with this. I wonder if she consulted with LE before she went public?
Just some of my thoughts and questions.
And of course all MOO, JMO etc.

Oregongal

03-17-2008, 11:46 PM

I just wanted to say something here, since I've just been catching up, I've seen soooo many posts about whether or not a PI is involved, or has been hired.
I am sorry Harlett that some of what has been said has seemed as a personal attack.
I respect and am in awe of the work you do for the missing. Been to your website and altho it saddens me to see sooo many missing people, I applaud you for the work you do and hope you don't leave us. You have given us so much info and have been grateful for it. I totally respect your integrity in not sharing info that, bottom line is none of our business and could interfer with any investigation you may be working on. Your are doing a wonderful and caring, compassionate job that most of us don't have a full comprehension about.
I would hope you continue to be here to give us info on just how your work is done, but I, for one, do not expect you to give info that may hinder any work/investigation you are doing. As I said, I'm sorry that there are some who don't quite understand. I also would hate to lose you as a poster, because I have learned quite alot from you and appreciate it so much.
And I would like to say also...IMO the PI question is not that important. I honestly don't understand why there are so many pages about this PI question. It doesn't matter in the long run and IMO there is a PI on the case...HarlettOhara.
JMO, MOO, and all the OOOO's
:rose:

Shimz

03-17-2008, 11:51 PM

Originally posted by Beth

Only if it was deleted from here! I read it on one of our own threads, just last night. Did we lose some? [/*]

yes i posted a link late last night to a site where a guy listed her facts. Is it gone? I also found another site today where someone had listed her facts but i forgot it... So it is still out there lol

tulipmom

03-17-2008, 11:57 PM

the reason the PI issue is important is because many of us remember CF mentioning the PI. Yet Harlett states that CF told her she had no knowledge of one. Therefore it could be an instance of contradicting statements.
Adding that I also think it's very telling that Nancy & Greta both dropped this like a hot potato!

Oregongal

03-18-2008, 12:10 AM

Originally posted by sherryhefner
Oregongal, your above post is great and those are some of the questions I have too. I guess one would just "assume" that LE talked to the kids or the neighbors...

Hopefully, you are right and LE is working behind the scenes... [/*]

sherry, "assuming" is what get alot of us in trouble sometimes.
Assuming isn't facts and we just don't know alot of 'facts'. Frustrating, yes, understandable yes.
Thank you for thinking my post was good, I've posted before and been ignored, or discounted. I appreciate someone who recognizes me and responds...I'm just human, wanting to be recognized...even if I'm disagreed with.
;)

decor

03-18-2008, 12:34 AM

Pam

03-18-2008, 12:36 AM

Oregongal

03-18-2008, 12:36 AM

Originally posted by sherryhefner

Musterion, Shame on you! Why the heck are you jumping on me? cteall had made a comment about "snerts." I have no idea what that is. When someone asked, "What is that?" there was no reply. So I simply guessed in an effort to be funny, "Maybe snerts are irritating posters?" I don't know what it is!

Why can't I make a joke? Please don't call me down. The posts here are slowing considerably from the early days of this case. I'm making an effort to keep posting here to keep this thread alive. I don't care if anyone here agrees with me or not. I have no proof of what happened...I'm only guessing like others here. If I'm hurting the process, I'll take my 900+ posts and go to another thread.

I hope that Nic is found safe and sound and that his children will be OK! :seeya: [/*]

I'm the one who asked what snerts was. An innocent question on my part, just saw a term I don't know and asked.
Sorry to have started something. Feel free to pm me about it and if I've caused this, so very sorry.
:(

isitme

03-18-2008, 12:37 AM

May I suggest that everyone take a deap breath.

Exhale

Repeat

now

Focus on why we are here . . .

JMHO of course

decor

03-18-2008, 12:37 AM

Originally posted by Beth

And this to you is proof? [/*]

proof? no

but generally people get the idea when their is no response.

and apple I really wasn't directing it at you.

isitme

03-18-2008, 12:44 AM

I know I read that a PI had been hired. I thought I read it on one of the first news releases but I haven't found it yet.

I am also searching the thousands of posts at that E*** site but that's going to take a while.

Oregongal

03-18-2008, 12:49 AM

Originally posted by Beth
Don't take it personal, appledipper. You weren't suggesting to bombard them nor harrass them, so don't worry about it.

I got what you're saying and I think it's a good idea. If they choose to answer one of us, even better.

I don't think anything has been proven at all that they (Nancy and Greta) don't want anything to do with this case. That's just a ridulous thing to even say. Oh and of course, that's just my opinion. :) [/*]

ITA Beth, I don't feel anyone was suggesting that we bombard either of them, but, we don't know why they haven't answered. I think they are so busy dealing with all kinds of cases on a daily basis. There are so many hours in each day and they do have a life outside of their professional careers.
They are professionals in what they do and IMO do it very well. I'm sure they have staff to deal with the emails and requests for things, it could be neither NG or Greta are even aware of all the emails and requests that come in for them. I also think that if someone or many continue to email they may answer...even if it's with a form email that tells the person, they can't answer every email.
I understand this and am not that upset that no one has been answered, but I would like to see someone has gotten that form email to at least acknowledge they have received the email.
JMO

Pam

03-18-2008, 12:54 AM

Originally posted by isitme
I know I read that a PI had been hired. I thought I read it on one of the first news releases but I haven't found it yet.

I am also searching the thousands of posts at that E*** site but that's going to take a while. [/*]

I was thinking it was on E*** that I first read it, and I tried to read from the beginning to end of those threads, but it's going to make me blind trying to read all that :(

But, it might have been elsewhere that I read it as well, I just can't remember now....it'll probably come to me at 3:00 in the morning.

Oregongal

03-18-2008, 12:54 AM

Originally posted by isitme
May I suggest that everyone take a deap breath.

Exhale

Repeat

now

Focus on why we are here . . .

JMHO of course [/*]

I had to LOL isitme at this, this is how I taught my kids after learning it in birth classes. I do it, and to this day my 26 yr old DD does it and has teached her son to do so also.
I have to remind her to do it sometimes when she's upset.
Inhale thru the nose, exhale thru the mouth....now do it again.
It works. Remember to breath all, it doed amazing things.

Shimz

03-18-2008, 12:59 AM

this site is where they say Publicis hired a PI

http://agencyspy.wordpress.com/2008/02/18/art-director-missing-nicholas-francisco/

kpb

03-18-2008, 01:00 AM

Originally posted by Envision

Apple, don't let the Debbie Downers run you off. They are the ones with nothing to add but sarcasm and negativity. YOU at least are trying. [/*]

I really hope no one leaves just because a handful seem to have an agenda to close this thread. Last night was the worst and they were back at it again earlier today.

I don't know, maybe just ignore and don't answer when there's no thoughts or insight, just sarcasm and negativity... it's sad that we have to say this on a board of adults, but what can you do when some people appear to be here only to play games.
:shrug:

Pam

03-18-2008, 01:03 AM

Originally posted by Shimz
this site is where they say Publicis hired a PI

http://agencyspy.wordpress.com/2008/02/18/art-director-missing-nicholas-francisco/ [/*]

TY, Shimz, I think I do remember reading that one :)

I still think I read it somewhere else before that....it was before I started following all of the links that eventually led me here.

This is one of those little things that will drive me nuts until I figure it out....kind of like knowing a name that is on the tip of your tongue but you can't spit it out, lol.

soyesterday

03-18-2008, 01:04 AM

Ok ok ok....
so hear me out....
Nicholas and Christine are not as happy as the "appear" to have been.
They just left their church, but they don't agree about it.
One or the other is upset about leaving.
They argue about it for a while.
Nicholas goes to work and everything seems fine.
Christine doesn't really hear from him at 6pm that night he went missing.
There were no plans to make cookies or there were maybe plans for it, but mostly on Christine's part.
She asked him earlier in the day to bring home sugar, so he tells a coworker that he is stopping by the store on the way home.
He makes sure his phone is dead so he can't be reached or "nagged" maybe???
He doesn't make it to the store.
Instead he goes to a bar. (I can't remember right now....have all the local bars been checked to see if anyone matching his description was there?)
We all know the stories of these young guys going missing after leaving a bar late at night.
Could Nicholas have been one of them? (I hope not.)
Or did he meet a girl there and just say what the h***...it beats going back home right now.
Then he realized he got in way deep over his head.
Christine is ticked off.
He realizes how she really is by her actions and the things she has said and just stays away.
I don't know......
just a theory idea.....

soyesterday

03-18-2008, 01:12 AM

Or could Nicholas have cheated on Christine?
She finds out about it.
They leave the church.
She tells him that noone else has to know. (trying to keep up the appearance of being the perfect couple)
But she makes his life miserable and threatens to take everything away from him.
He's fed up w/ it all and just decides to leave w/ the other girl.
Christine is so upset when he doesn't come home that night that she makes up the cookie story and how he isn't a coward and would never leave them.
He's sitting there watching the tv and the internet from wherever he is and decides to stay away until she calms down.

Pam

03-18-2008, 01:12 AM

Soy, It's about as good as theory as any :shrug:

I've often thought that they did argue over the phone that day....from her remarks of all the times she talked to him that day. (don't have the exact quote..would have to go dig that up) Maybe it was after that the cell phone became "dead". I still have to wonder if he made it home that night after work and they argued more???

It's just all such a puzzle!

Seems about the only things that we know for sure is, he was at work that day, he left the building, and his car was found.

soyesterday

03-18-2008, 01:14 AM

Originally posted by Pam
Soy, It's about as good as theory as any :shrug:

I've often thought that they did argue over the phone that day....from her remarks of all the times she talked to him that day. (don't have the exact quote..would have to go dig that up) Maybe it was after that the cell phone became "dead". I still have to wonder if he made it home that night after work and they argued more???

It's just all such a puzzle!

Seems about the only things that we know for sure is, he was at work that day, he left the building, and his car was found. [/*]
Yeah you're right, they could have argued on and off all day and Nicholas says "Forget this.....my phone is dead!"
And he's not answering anymore.
She is freaking out mad now.
He goes home.
They argue more.
He leaves upset.
She waits and waits.
He never comes back.
He goes to the condos or apartments nearby and stays w/ someone there?
He decides not to go back after all that.

field of snow

03-18-2008, 01:14 AM

I don't ever watch Nancy or Greta, but I was thinking the encouragement to those interested in seeing them do an update on NF was a good idea.

I believe receiving a lot of requests via email and whatever other resources they have for viewers to communicate and give feedback may prompt them to have another look. Of course, ideally the requests would be from MANY *different* individuals. I suspect that outside of us and WS and a handful of others, there isn't a lot of interest in his story though. At least not yet.

And no, I don't think either of one of them would consider multiple non-creepy requests for updates from viewers as harassment. That comes with the job, IMO.....Of course, if they request that the person emailing stop and they don't, then it might be grounds for claiming harassment.

:seeya:

field of snow

03-18-2008, 01:18 AM

Originally posted by Shimz
this site is where they say Publicis hired a PI

http://agencyspy.wordpress.com/2008/02/18/art-director-missing-nicholas-francisco/ [/*]

I suggested earlier that someone email the agencyspy blog owner (contact link on website) and ask them if they wouldn't mind sharing where they got the info about the PI Publicis hired. I was going to guess "inside info" (from another employee at Publicis?) but maybe they'll share?

I'm not curious enough to ask (or is that too tired from a crazy weekend, so therefore lazy).

:o

Shimz

03-18-2008, 01:23 AM

Originally posted by Pam

TY, Shimz, I think I do remember reading that one :)

I still think I read it somewhere else before that....it was before I started following all of the links that eventually led me here.

This is one of those little things that will drive me nuts until I figure it out....kind of like knowing a name that is on the tip of your tongue but you can't spit it out, lol. [/*]

yw :D

I tried to look a little more and see if there was any place else but i didn't see anything...

here is another site with a bunch of the news articles, and CF's fact list at the bottom (an earlier version though)

http://www.crimeandjustice.us/forums/lofiversion/index.php?t11936.html

Pam

03-18-2008, 01:25 AM

Originally posted by soyesterday

Yeah you're right, they could have argued on and off all day and Nicholas says "Forget this.....my phone is dead!"
And he's not answering anymore.
She is freaking out mad now.
He goes home.
They argue more.
He leaves upset.
She waits and waits.
He never comes back.
He goes to the condos or apartments nearby and stays w/ someone there?
He decides not to go back after all that. [/*]

That's kind of along the lines I was thinking. Maybe after she reports him missing, it becomes too much for him....not believing that she made such a big deal out of it.

Do we really know that he never walked out upset before? Not really...most everything we've gotten about his personality and habits has been from CF. For all we know, he's gotten upset before and walked out, but only for a few minutes...never a few hours??

Pam

03-18-2008, 01:31 AM

Originally posted by Pam

That's kind of along the lines I was thinking. Maybe after she reports him missing, it becomes too much for him....not believing that she made such a big deal out of it.

Do we really know that he never walked out upset before? Not really...most everything we've gotten about his personality and habits has been from CF. For all we know, he's gotten upset before and walked out, but only for a few minutes...never a few hours?? [/*]

I'm just grasping at straws.

It just gets to me. You don't just walk out of your job, stand on a sidewalk, say good-bye to a co-worker or two and vanish into thin air.

Somebody, somewhere, knows something, has seen something, and it baffles my mind that we don't have any answers.

need2no

03-18-2008, 01:34 AM

Originally posted by Shimz
this site is where they say Publicis hired a PI

http://agencyspy.wordpress.com/2008/02/18/art-director-missing-nicholas-francisco/ [/*]

Unless my tired eyes deceive me this information has now gone poof. :)

mc528

03-18-2008, 01:38 AM

Originally posted by Pam

I was thinking it was on E*** that I first read it, and I tried to read from the beginning to end of those threads, but it's going to make me blind trying to read all that :(

But, it might have been elsewhere that I read it as well, I just can't remember now....it'll probably come to me at 3:00 in the morning. [/*]

I've just spent the past couple of hours looking through all of the news story links, and re-reading the threads over on E*** to try and find where I had first read of the PI being hired. I know it was before that entry on the agensyspy site.....because I hadn't seen that until I started reading here, and I had already read about the hiring of the PI before that. I found this site on 2/20.

I was able to find that the first mention of a PI being hired by Publicis was in a post on one of the E*** threads, made at 8:04 pm EST on 2/18. The wording on the post is very clear that the PI being hired was new, and recent news.....yet I read every post in every thread, from that point back and cannot find where it was *officially* announced. I also checked all of the links that were provided in the various threads prior to that point....these all pointed to the various newspaper and t.v. stories and the blog that was set-up by CF's/NF's former church. (at that time that link was still in the threads).....no mention in any of those of the PI (I do however need to re-read all of the comments on that MH site's article....it may be in one of those). The only link that I could not gleen any information from, is the original *official* site that was at http://mailpen.net That site has since been shut down, and even trying to locate it's former contents through cache on google, proved unsuccessful.

I am more than a little certain that it was on that mailpen site, or the blog by MH that the PI information would have been disclosed on the afternoon of 2/18. There were no links over on E*** to that agensyspy article, nor to this site or WS at that time. Nor was there any announcement in those E*** threads from either CF or the two persons that were acting as the *spokesmen* for updates to the E*** community....yet it (the fact that a PI was hired) was definitely known and mentioned by more than one poster on that thread. You will find the link to the thread I am talking about in the sticky links thread here, it is in the post made by homecrafter on 3/6....at the bottom of page 22 in the thread entitled "Updated Info here on......."

mc528

03-18-2008, 01:40 AM

Originally posted by need2no

Unless my tired eyes deceive me this information has now gone poof. :) [/*]

It's still there.....unless my tired eyes are seeing what isn't there. :confused:

need2no

03-18-2008, 01:56 AM

I've looked at this case from the angle of NF making preparations. He wants or needs to leave for whatever reason. What considerations would he have?

* Car is too obvious to be used in get away, and he may be seen out and about as he leaves Seattle, and car may not be reliable to go very far
* Cell phone pings could track him down
* Unusual financial transactions prior to leaving would be suspicious
* Financial transactions after he left could track him down
* Would need to know he could not be tracked by laptop-no brainer with his computer knowledge and/or a little research
* Taking personal items such as photos, clothing, tools, any sports or hobby equipment, etc. would indicate he walked
* Taking personal items from work such as family photos, knick knacks, etc. would indicate he walked
* Changing anything on the computer would be suspicious
* Changing his routine or normal mood and attitude around others were be deemed suspicious
* Applying for a credit card would be suspicous and he could be tracked if he used it
* Is there anybody he could trust with this knowledge (of him leaving and why), would this pose an emotional burden on someone if he shared his plans

If you think about this list, Nicholas had all his bases covered. Even if he decided to leave on the spur of the moment, it doesn't mean he hadn't previously thought through all of this and was therefore prepared when the final decision was made..for whatever reason.

isitme

03-18-2008, 02:00 AM

Originally posted by Shimz
this site is where they say Publicis hired a PI

http://agencyspy.wordpress.com/2008/02/18/art-director-missing-nicholas-francisco/ [/*]

YES! I was reading posts on the E*** site and googling when that became tiresome. I found a couple of references to Publicis hiring a PI. Came back here to say it was out there and you beat me to it.

GOOD JOB Shimz!!:beer:

Pam

03-18-2008, 02:04 AM

Originally posted by mc528

I've just spent the past couple of hours looking through all of the news story links, and re-reading the threads over on E*** to try and find where I had first read of the PI being hired. I know it was before that entry on the agensyspy site.....because I hadn't seen that until I started reading here, and I had already read about the hiring of the PI before that. I found this site on 2/20.

I was able to find that the first mention of a PI being hired by Publicis was in a post on one of the E*** threads, made at 8:04 pm EST on 2/18. The wording on the post is very clear that the PI being hired was new, and recent news.....yet I read every post in every thread, from that point back and cannot find where it was *officially* announced. I also checked all of the links that were provided in the various threads prior to that point....these all pointed to the various newspaper and t.v. stories and the blog that was set-up by CF's/NF's former church. (at that time that link was still in the threads).....no mention in any of those of the PI (I do however need to re-read all of the comments on that MH site's article....it may be in one of those). The only link that I could not gleen any information from, is the original *official* site that was at http://mailpen.net That site has since been shut down, and even trying to locate it's former contents through cache on google, proved unsuccessful.

I am more than a little certain that it was on that mailpen site, or the blog by MH that the PI information would have been disclosed on the afternoon of 2/18. There were no links over on E*** to that agensyspy article, nor to this site or WS at that time. Nor was there any announcement in those E*** threads from either CF or the two persons that were acting as the *spokesmen* for updates to the E*** community....yet it (the fact that a PI was hired) was definitely known and mentioned by more than one poster on that thread. You will find the link to the thread I am talking about in the sticky links thread here, it is in the post made by homecrafter on 3/6....at the bottom of page 22 in the thread entitled "Updated Info here on......." [/*]

I finally found the mention on the E*** site for the 18th that you just mentioned, but my eyes are going cross trying to find the info before that. There were so many posts, and too many to dig through tonight.

Shimz

03-18-2008, 02:05 AM

Originally posted by isitme

YES! I was reading posts on the E*** site and googling when that became tiresome. I found a couple of references to Publicis hiring a PI. Came back here to say it was out there and you beat me to it.

GOOD JOB Shimz!!:beer: [/*]

:beer:

mc528

03-18-2008, 02:12 AM

Originally posted by Pam

I finally found the mention on the E*** site for the 18th that you just mentioned, but my eyes are going cross trying to find the info before that. There were so many posts, and too many to dig through tonight. [/*]

I'm very sure I went through them all (and yes, there were thousands).....and couldn't find anything prior to the post I found....which was obvious that the information on the PI had been "announced" somewhere. I really believe that it was on that mailpen site....there is no other place it could have been that everyone following the E*** threads (and likely ONLY them at that point) would have read it. Of course, since the site is now down, there is no way to really concretely prove that's where we all saw it. MOO

isitme

03-18-2008, 02:16 AM

Originally posted by mc528

I've just spent the past couple of hours looking through all of the news story links, and re-reading the threads over on E*** to try and find where I had first read of the PI being hired. I know it was before that entry on the agensyspy site.....because I hadn't seen that until I started reading here, and I had already read about the hiring of the PI before that. I found this site on 2/20.

I was able to find that the first mention of a PI being hired by Publicis was in a post on one of the E*** threads, made at 8:04 pm EST on 2/18. The wording on the post is very clear that the PI being hired was new, and recent news.....yet I read every post in every thread, from that point back and cannot find where it was *officially* announced. I also checked all of the links that were provided in the various threads prior to that point....these all pointed to the various newspaper and t.v. stories and the blog that was set-up by CF's/NF's former church. (at that time that link was still in the threads).....no mention in any of those of the PI (I do however need to re-read all of the comments on that MH site's article....it may be in one of those). The only link that I could not gleen any information from, is the original *official* site that was at http://mailpen.net That site has since been shut down, and even trying to locate it's former contents through cache on google, proved unsuccessful.

I am more than a little certain that it was on that mailpen site, or the blog by MH that the PI information would have been disclosed on the afternoon of 2/18. There were no links over on E*** to that agensyspy article, nor to this site or WS at that time. Nor was there any announcement in those E*** threads from either CF or the two persons that were acting as the *spokesmen* for updates to the E*** community....yet it (the fact that a PI was hired) was definitely known and mentioned by more than one poster on that thread. You will find the link to the thread I am talking about in the sticky links thread here, it is in the post made by homecrafter on 3/6....at the bottom of page 22 in the thread entitled "Updated Info here on......." [/*]

I agree. IIRC I read it in the first linked article about him and I would have found that link in the E*** forums. As I recall the article was the one that had his picture in the pumpkin patch as the first picture, but it also seems that there were several pictures after that one. Was that the first mailpen article?

invreporter1105

03-18-2008, 02:16 AM

Originally posted by n/t

Maybe he just needed a break from all the stresses in his life and couldn't do it if he would tell Christine. Maybe Christine would get too upset and then he'd have no choice but to stay.

Also, another thing I thought of last night and that was Christine's reference to some dream she had of Nicholas being near water.

Could that be another clue? Maybe some of us think the worse but what if it really meant, he's vacationing somewhere on a beach. Yes, maybe even sipping Margueritas in Mexico as she pointed out in one of the interviews.

Who knows. [/*]

Christine said she wanted LE scuba divers to dive Panther Lake. I assume she is thinking that his body may be found there. I hope you are right, though.

Pam

03-18-2008, 02:17 AM

Originally posted by mc528

I'm very sure I went through them all (and yes, there were thousands).....and couldn't find anything prior to the post I found....which was obvious that the information on the PI had been "announced" somewhere. I really believe that it was on that mailpen site....there is no other place it could have been that everyone following the E*** threads (and likely ONLY them at that point) would have read it. Of course, since the site is now down, there is no way to really concretely prove that's where we all saw it. MOO [/*]

I think you're right. I only followed the few links that were posted there in the beginning. It wasn't until I started to Google NF that I found more links and this site.

mc528

03-18-2008, 02:19 AM

Originally posted by isitme

I agree. IIRC I read it in the first linked article about him and I would have found that link in the E*** forums. As I recall the article was the one that had his picture in the pumpkin patch as the first picture, but it also seems that there were several pictures after that one. Was that the first mailpen article? [/*]

Yes....that was, at the time, the official site for information and updates about the case. It has since been shut down and replaced by the new official site.....I wasn't able even to retrieve a cache copy of the original site....maybe someone else can, who's a little more tech savvy (and less tired) than me.

mc528

03-18-2008, 02:21 AM

Originally posted by invreporter1105

Christine said she wanted LE scuba divers to dive Panther Lake. I assume she is thinking that his body may be found there. I hope you are right, though. [/*]

Where did she say that? Is there a link? I must have missed it. TIA

isitme

03-18-2008, 02:25 AM

So if us E*** people remember reading about the PI in a link, wouldn't CF most likely have been aware that it was mentioned in that article?

I also found in my google search a snippet under WS about Publicis hiring a PI but when I clicked on the link I couldn't find any mention of it. Perhaps they when they closed it the initial article was deleted.

isitme

03-18-2008, 02:27 AM

Originally posted by mc528

Yes....that was, at the time, the official site for information and updates about the case. It has since been shut down and replaced by the new official site.....I wasn't able even to retrieve a cache copy of the original site....maybe someone else can, who's a little more tech savvy (and less tired) than me. [/*]

I thought so. I also tried to get the cached version but, like you, had no luck.

Perhaps I will try again.

need2no

03-18-2008, 02:31 AM

Originally posted by Envision
It's still there. Here borrow my reading glasses...:cool: [/*]

:biggrin: Thank you very much they seemed to have helped.

The info was not there when I 1st tried the link, so I tried a 2nd time and it still wasn't there.. just a small blurb about nic, his pic and 4 comments, (but not the one who mentioned the PI.) After posting I didn't see it and some said it was still there I went back again and it's now there. Is this like the pic of Zea that some of us STILL see, yet others say was removed?

I also went to the link for St. Anthony's Church (at the bottom of NF's missing flyer), and see it is gone.
The Mars Hill page has NF's pic and a little mssing info but has removed their comments, and all posts, and direct the reader to Mailpen which also is no longer working.

Now... if any of you tell me you can see this old info on those links I mentioned...I SWEAR I AM OFF TO BED!

PS-Here >I am returning your specks for now, but may need them back :cool:

isitme

03-18-2008, 02:44 AM

MC528 and Pam if we have to search those threads again perhaps we should team up. We could each take 2- 3 threads. That way it wouldn't be such a PIA.

invreporter1105

03-18-2008, 03:03 AM

Originally posted by mc528

Where did she say that? Is there a link? I must have missed it. TIA [/*]

I spoke with her online on March 13th and she stated, "I am trying to get a dive team to dive Panther Lake, the lake near where his car was found."

Oregongal

03-18-2008, 03:07 AM

I'm just back after watching a movie with my DD and I see the discussion about the PI, hiring, positng about, is there, isn't there one is still being discussed.
Forgive my ignorance about this, but as I posted earlier, what is the big deal about this? Is it because there is nothing else to discuss? Is it because I've missed some importance in the whole thing?
What?
It doesn't matter if anyone answers, since so many of my posts seem to be ignored.
But, I'm just wondering what the big significance in the PI issue that seems important enough to so many to be given so many pages of posts to continue the convo for so many. Personally, I don't find any significance in the whole of was there or wasn't there, where it may have been posted etc. for it to be brought up again and again. As I said, if there is some importance to this that would really help find Nicholas...have I missed it? I just wonder what does it matter if a PI was hired or not? As Harlett has said, in her profession as a PI, any info they may or may not have is and should be confidential so whatever investigation they may be doing will not be compramising to that investigation.
I'm not trying to offend, discount or ignore anyone's opinion, just wondering WTH is the big deal about it.

Just stating my wonderings and they are all just my curious mind at work here.
JMO, IMO, MOO!!!

Oregongal

03-18-2008, 03:14 AM

Originally posted by soyesterday
Ok ok ok....
so hear me out....
Nicholas and Christine are not as happy as the "appear" to have been.
They just left their church, but they don't agree about it.
One or the other is upset about leaving.
They argue about it for a while.
Nicholas goes to work and everything seems fine.
Christine doesn't really hear from him at 6pm that night he went missing.
There were no plans to make cookies or there were maybe plans for it, but mostly on Christine's part.
She asked him earlier in the day to bring home sugar, so he tells a coworker that he is stopping by the store on the way home.
He makes sure his phone is dead so he can't be reached or "nagged" maybe???
He doesn't make it to the store.
Instead he goes to a bar. (I can't remember right now....have all the local bars been checked to see if anyone matching his description was there?)
We all know the stories of these young guys going missing after leaving a bar late at night.
Could Nicholas have been one of them? (I hope not.)
Or did he meet a girl there and just say what the h***...it beats going back home right now.
Then he realized he got in way deep over his head.
Christine is ticked off.
He realizes how she really is by her actions and the things she has said and just stays away.
I don't know......
just a theory idea..... [/*]

Good ideas!

Oregongal

03-18-2008, 03:14 AM

Oregongal

03-18-2008, 04:06 AM

Originally posted by soyesterday
Or could Nicholas have cheated on Christine?
She finds out about it.
They leave the church.
She tells him that noone else has to know. (trying to keep up the appearance of being the perfect couple)
But she makes his life miserable and threatens to take everything away from him.
He's fed up w/ it all and just decides to leave w/ the other girl.
Christine is so upset when he doesn't come home that night that she makes up the cookie story and how he isn't a coward and would never leave them.
He's sitting there watching the tv and the internet from wherever he is and decides to stay away until she calms down. [/*]

More good ideas.
May I add, that maybe he did come home that night and something horrible happened regarding any or all of these theories/ideas.
There could have been a fight to end all fights and something went from there. He decided that that was it, we don't really know their life was so perfect, as has been said before, we have only heard CF's side of the whole marriage. I, having been married for a very long time, being at the age I am know that no marriage is perfect. You can't put two people together in any situation, much less a marriage and expect that relationship to be perfect. Two people, two different upbringings, two different ways of thinking etc, etc...and expect it to be perfect. Men and women are wired differently, they are bound to have some differences, different outlooks, different expectations...lots of differences. That's what makes the world go round. And there are so many situations where the things that go on behind closed doors are never known.
CF and NF's marriage could have been in upheaval for a very long time. Their ages and at the time they got together was when they were very young. Sometimes when those young marriages start it does seem perfect, yet as time goes on, one or the other realizes this is not what they really thought it was or really wanted as they grow up. The kids come, the responsibilities become more and the pressures grow.
For all we know, discounting CF's accounting of their marriage, they had been fighting for a while. For all we know they, or maybe Nicholas had been talking separation or divorce and when the new baby was announced it could have been a breaking point.
Who of us really knows? I don't. It could have been the day before the 'Love' day, Valentine's day was it for one or the other of them.
The possibilities that could have happened are numerous. The two that I keep having in my mind.....and go ahead and hammer
me...he came home without the sugar (if that was the true story,
we only have CF's word on that) she became angry he didn't follow her instructions. She may have also expected him to come home with a gift of some kind for her for Valentine's day and he didn't, they fought.
He left to avoid the fight that ensued.
Or on the other horrible thing to think of, he came home without a gift for her or any acknowlegment of the next day to come. I've had a hard time believing and working into the time line the getting the sugar and doing the cookie thing from the beginning,
and they fought about that. That fight escalated to a final end all.
I won't go further, because I do not want to be attacked, pissed on or banned from this board. And I've probably used all the words I'm allowed for a post.
As much as I would love to think that Nicholas left on his own and is safe and well. I think that something horrible has happened to him and I think that CF may have had something to do with that.
I'm not accusing, I'm just thinking of the possibilities. Possibilities that have happened time and again in real life. As awful as it may be, it happens. If it were CF that was missing with no trace, who would we be looking at?
There you have it, my thoughts...feel free to hammer me.
I still pray every night for Nicholas :rose: