Monday 03-17-08 a.m.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Jan Powell
IMO, the girly thing of finding out where he lived happened way back when Maria had her first inklings he was married. I think she went to his house ONE last time; whether to tell him she was leaving town and keeping her child or that she tried to drop the allegations and couldn't, I'm not sure.

(snipped)
[/*]

See. that is the problem.. we can't figure out even the basics in this case...

[gaelicpeas]

every post I see.. well, except for a few.. has disclaimers.. and that is because we don't have some very basic facts...

ugh.... that is all I will say...

[mini-me]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


thanks, Mini.. the baby clothing is the only thing that has me wondering on this theory.. [/*]Maybe she bought some clothing and had it in her car and he found it. She was planning on keeping that baby. JMO

[Jan Powell]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


Renal guy said we will wait and see but said he advocates a good 2-3 month seasoning before using it- so Ihave time he said

Just BS's for now.

Yes i have been diabetic before after & because of the steroids, but its been 7 years....:rolleyes: I was sticking my earlobes when I had 4 x day BS's because tips were fried---:eek:

Tonight, the tops of my arms hurt!! LOL. what an id I am....
Wilford Brimley won't let me in the club, boo hoo

SORRY EVERYONE OT won't happen again [/*]

Bless you.

Jan

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by mini-me
Maybe she bought some clothing and had it in her car and he found it. She was planning on keeping that baby. JMO [/*]

Could be.. but I can't see him going into her car and grabbing that and then throwing it into the pit... for what reason?

JM

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


Peas- I never saw you post but if it did say something like that, oh my :eek: I don't know WHAT I would think.... [/*]

yeah.. I have been trying to think why that baby clothing would be thrown in there. If CSL murdered her, then it makes perfect sense. But if CL murdered her... then, to me, it doesn't make a lot of sense unless something about it connected it to him..

JMO

[Jan Powell]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


OT Plea: If anyone sees that commercial where he says get your diabetic testing supplies if you have medicare...could you please get the 800# for me? $99 for 100 strips ain't cuttin' it here. TIA. [/*]

OT (look up Edgepark too, they are a very good supplier)

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


yeah.. I have been trying to think why that baby clothing would be thrown in there. If CSL murdered her, then it makes perfect sense. But if CL murdered her... then, to me, it doesn't make a lot of sense unless something about it connected it to him..

JMO [/*]
Maybe she just had the bag in her hand when she came into the house and when stuck it went down with her.

Then when she was loaded onto the comforter it went with her :shrug:

[BarbraAllen]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


I picture her with about 5 computer screens, and a bell tied on a string on each one, and everytime we type in LYNN, LYNN GWEENY or GWEENY it rings one of the little bells and she ssssllllliiiiddddeeeesss her chair across the rooms and ZAP provides the link, and on to the next bell.....LOL [/*]

You are funny! I could picture that perfectly from reading what you wrote.

[mini-me]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


Could be.. but I can't see him going into her car and grabbing that and then throwing it into the pit... for what reason?

JM [/*]Why not the clothing could have been on seat of the car. We know he was in her car. What we don't know is when she was buried. Or the item could have been in her purse we know he had to go through that to get her ATM card. The baby items probably ticked him off. Do we really know it was clothing or just one little item.

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


I told you.
She's got it like that.
:beer: Lynn (caffeine free Pepsi) :D [/*]
Yes, she has built in Radar. :)

[Jan Powell]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


See. that is the problem.. we can't figure out even the basics in this case... [/*]

True, and then throw in bizarre and roller coaster rides from LE and the DA.

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by mini-me
Why not the clothing could have been on seat of the car. We know he was in her car. What we don't know is when she was buried. Or the item could have been in her purse we know he had to go through that to get her ATM card. The baby items probably ticked him off. Do we really know it was clothing or just one little item. [/*]
It said:
"Along with the clothing, there is a melted plastic bag that contains an item of baby clothing. There is a label "Size 0-3 months."

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by AnnieBean
WEll, now I really am going to bed night y'all who are left.

henry if you are reading this and it is Tuesday morning please start the coffee.....LOL [/*]
Nite AB. I'm heading out to, "Dancing With the Stars" is starting.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


What would I throw into a pit I planned on covering dirt over?
1. Something I never hoped would be found.
2. Something that could incriminate me.
3. Something that could cast suspicion on me.

:shrug: JMO [/*]

agreed.. but if it was just some non-descript baby clothing in her car.. how does that implicate CL?

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by IvySterling

Maybe she just had the bag in her hand when she came into the house and when stuck it went down with her.

Then when she was loaded onto the comforter it went with her :shrug: [/*]

maybe.. but why would she walk into his house with that in her hand? I can think of a few theories here...

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by mini-me
Why not the clothing could have been on seat of the car. We know he was in her car. What we don't know is when she was buried. Or the item could have been in her purse we know he had to go through that to get her ATM card. The baby items probably ticked him off. Do we really know it was clothing or just one little item. [/*]

We don't know what the baby clothing item was. But, to me anyway, that is so incriminating... why would he throw that into the pit?? LIke I said, I can see CSL doing that just out of spite if she was the murderer. But if CL was the murderer, then that clothing had to have some connection to him, IMO.

[Maka]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


I wonder who the female was that answered the phone at their house and said we aren't being told the whole story (paraphrased of course)?

1-Elvira or ever how you spell her name (and when I see her name I always think of the Oak Ridge Boys singing Elvira!)
2-Blanca
3-Who knows?
4-Who cares? [/*]

Hmmm maybe the person who called there should call again!



(Ivy......Chopped liver is a good thing! I heart braunschweiger!!!!!)

[gaelicpeas]

IMO, there are two things from the autopsy report that don't figure into our prior theories...

#1, the baby clothing in the bag.. presumably the original bag from the store (although that is just my guess)

#2, the absence of any clothing below the waist. Did they burn away, or were they never there?

[gaelicpeas]

And, given those two things from the autopsy report, it leads me to think that this was a much more evil scenario than we imagined. but that is JMO.

[gaelicpeas]

Is anyone here, or am I talking to myself again, as in many other nights many moons ago? LOL..

[Jan Powell]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


He came out and said "bizarre" and "twists and turns" so freshly from his lips the day they found Marias body- or was it the evening before?- that we should probably feel fortunate he said it when and how he did, on video, where nobody could change his words or make it "more politically correct"-, or change the words to make it sound more "sophisticated". His raw emotions tell us plenty. {We have so little else to go on....} JMO [/*]

IIRC, the DA made a "rollercoaster twists an turns" comment during the Houston "sighting" timeline which of course was several days after they found Maria's body. Of course he could have been talking about CL's travels too (the sunglasses and motelrooms, etc. travelguide).

Personally, I will be surprised to find out he was ever in a Houston bus station or he picked up money from WU in Houston. It wouldn't surprise me if he picked up cash there and he SENT it by MoneyGram to Mexico to be held by someone for him.

[gaelicpeas]

ok, since no one is responding.. I mean.. how much worse can we get than bludgeoning, burying, and barbequing her? To me, the added insult of throwing the baby clothing in the pit, and possibly sexual assault prior/post murder is not inconceivable.

JMO

[Maka]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


We don't know what the baby clothing item was. But, to me anyway, that is so incriminating... why would he throw that into the pit?? LIke I said, I can see CSL doing that just out of spite if she was the murderer. But if CL was the murderer, then that clothing had to have some connection to him, IMO. [/*]

If not brought to the scene by Maria --> then --> CL purchased it (lure)


If CL didn't purchase it --> old baby gift ... (wrong gender purchase by someone in another country - couldn't exchange it...saved it anyway)
[PS I have one of those]

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Maka


If not brought to the scene by Maria --> then --> CL purchased it (lure)


If CL didn't purchase it --> old baby gift ... (wrong gender purchase by someone in another country - couldn't exchange it...saved it anyway)
[PS I have one of those] [/*]

I concur with the lure...

the other part, the old baby gift, I am not following. Why would he throw an old baby gift into the pit? Just wondering...

[mini-me]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


We don't know what the baby clothing item was. But, to me anyway, that is so incriminating... why would he throw that into the pit?? LIke I said, I can see CSL doing that just out of spite if she was the murderer. But if CL was the murderer, then that clothing had to have some connection to him, IMO. [/*]He didn't want any part of Maria or the baby. The baby item represented the baby. He was getting rid of a problem. Didn't like to face the consequences. He knew if Maria lived and had the baby, then he would lose everything. I really think he knew that baby was his. JMO

[Sherlocksmom]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
ok, since no one is responding.. I mean.. how much worse can we get than bludgeoning, burying, and barbequing her? To me, the added insult of throwing the baby clothing in the pit, and possibly sexual assault prior/post murder is not inconceivable.

JMO [/*]


ITA with you there. If someone is capable of murder, they are capable of other heinous acts as well.

[Jan Powell]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
IMO, there are two things from the autopsy report that don't figure into our prior theories...

#1, the baby clothing in the bag.. presumably the original bag from the store (although that is just my guess)

#2, the absence of any clothing below the waist. Did they burn away, or were they never there? [/*]

#2 is very strange to me, that shook me more than any part of the autopsy. I expect and prepare myself for a lot of things in a ME report, that one caught me way off guard.

[hinman]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
ok, since no one is responding.. I mean.. how much worse can we get than bludgeoning, burying, and barbequing her? To me, the added insult of throwing the baby clothing in the pit, and possibly sexual assault prior/post murder is not inconceivable.

JMO [/*]Sorry gaelic, hubby had stressful day, gave him a back rub and he's better now.

I think the murder became very personal, I would love to know if there was any kind of c/c statement showing a baby item being purchased from CL/CSL.

I don't think you can get much worse then what he did to poor Maria.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by mini-me
He didn't want any part of Maria or the baby. The baby item represented the baby. He was getting rid of a problem. Didn't like to face the consequences. He knew if Maria lived and had the baby, then he would lose everything. I really think he knew that baby was his. JMO [/*]

so.. he went into her car and grabbed this to throw into the pit? why not the MPO too?

or she walked into his house with the baby clothing? I don't know..... odd scenario, IMO.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Sherlocksmom



ITA with you there. If someone is capable of murder, they are capable of other heinous acts as well. [/*]

yeah.. that is what I am thinking too, Sherlocks...

[martha]

Originally posted by Jan Powell


#2 is very strange to me, that shook me more than any part of the autopsy. I expect and prepare myself for a lot of things in a ME report, that one caught me way off guard. [/*] I don;t understand why she did not have any cloths on below the waist? :rose:

[hinman]

Originally posted by Sherlocksmom



ITA with you there. If someone is capable of murder, they are capable of other heinous acts as well. [/*]
O/T but I am so glad to see you posting with us.

[mini-me]

Originally posted by Sherlocksmom



ITA with you there. If someone is capable of murder, they are capable of other heinous acts as well. [/*]Why wasn't CSL worried about her daughter and herself? Was it because she helped him.

[Jan Powell]

Originally posted by martha
I don;t understand why she did not have any cloths on below the waist? :rose: [/*]

Me either Martha.

[Maka]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


I concur with the lure...

the other part, the old baby gift, I am not following. Why would he throw an old baby gift into the pit? Just wondering... [/*]

saying if LE can't find a recent record of purchase and the RN number on the size tag shows it was made years ago/ or if it's a foreign label...the L's may have had it stored away and CL stuck it in a gift/shopping bag to present to Maria as a new gift

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Jan Powell


#2 is very strange to me, that shook me more than any part of the autopsy. I expect and prepare myself for a lot of things in a ME report, that one caught me way off guard. [/*]

I agree.. and although many posters don't agree, I think that fact means something.

Either her clothing below her waist burned away to nothing, which, I agree, is a possibility... or she didn't have clothing on below her waist.... which presents a whole lot of different possibilities, #1 in my mind being sexual assault prior/post murder.

Some posters have said this is um... I forgot the wording.. something like "nasty thinking".. but I am sorry.. a dead woman found without anything on below her waist, well, that is usually a sexual assault case, IMO.

[Sherlocksmom]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


I concur with the lure...

the other part, the old baby gift, I am not following. Why would he throw an old baby gift into the pit? Just wondering... [/*]


Just trying to brain storm here.....what if......

Maria is shopping, buys something for the baby......she comes out of the store with the item and CL is waiting in the parking lot at her car. He then forces her into her car and takes her to the bus depot forcing her to buy the ticket to El Paso. He then takes her to his house and kills her. He throws the bag in the pit so there is no connection to the store Maria was shopping in when he abducted her. Thinking someone might have seen him with her or that there were surveillance camera's in the parking lot. He gets rid of the bag and the baby item so LE never makes a connection to Maria shopping in the store??

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by martha
I don;t understand why she did not have any cloths on below the waist? :rose: [/*]

I agree, Martha.. and I want to apologize for my post many moons ago about being off-topic. You just happened to be one of the people talking about something, and I just happened to quote you... but I have absolutely no problem with your posts, and I feel your genuine interest in this case. So peace?

[Sherlocksmom]

Originally posted by martha
I don;t understand why she did not have any cloths on below the waist? :rose: [/*]


Thats puzzling to me as well Martha. For me that suggests he may have raped or attempted to rape her again before he killed her. Where are the pants and panties though? If she wasn't wearing them did he toss them in the pit before or after he put her body in? Wouldn't there still be fragments of them either way like there is the baby item, bra and shirt? Where are the shoes and socks? Weird!:confused:

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Maka


saying if LE can't find a recent record of purchase and the RN number on the size tag shows it was made years ago/ or if it's a foreign label...the L's may have had it stored away and CL stuck it in a gift/shopping bag to present to Maria as a new gift [/*]

ok.. so still part of the "lure" theory?

[Sherlocksmom]

Originally posted by hinman

O/T but I am so glad to see you posting with us. [/*]


Hey hinman

So glad I came back today of all days when the pictures and email from RS were posted too!

[hinman]

Originally posted by Sherlocksmom



Just trying to brain storm here.....what if......

Maria is shopping, buys something for the baby......she comes out of the store with the item and CL is waiting in the parking lot at her car. He then forces her into her car and takes her to the bus depot forcing her to buy the ticket to El Paso. He then takes her to his house and kills her. He throws the bag in the pit so there is no connection to the store Maria was shopping in when he abducted her. Thinking someone might have seen him with her or that there were surveillance camera's in the parking lot. He gets rid of the bag and the baby item so LE never makes a connection to Maria shopping in the store?? [/*]That thought crossed my mind.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Sherlocksmom



Just trying to brain storm here.....what if......

Maria is shopping, buys something for the baby......she comes out of the store with the item and CL is waiting in the parking lot at her car. He then forces her into her car and takes her to the bus depot forcing her to buy the ticket to El Paso. He then takes her to his house and kills her. He throws the bag in the pit so there is no connection to the store Maria was shopping in when he abducted her. Thinking someone might have seen him with her or that there were surveillance camera's in the parking lot. He gets rid of the bag and the baby item so LE never makes a connection to Maria shopping in the store?? [/*]

interesting...

but why would LE care if ML was shopping for baby clothes?

[CanCan]

I hate to bring this up again....but are we sure that ML was completely naked in the pit.........and that her shirt and bra were tossed on top of her??? TIA

jmo

[Maka]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


I agree.. and although many posters don't agree, I think that fact means something.

Either her clothing below her waist burned away to nothing, which, I agree, is a possibility... or she didn't have clothing on below her waist.... which presents a whole lot of different possibilities, #1 in my mind being sexual assault prior/post murder.

Some posters have said this is um... I forgot the wording.. something like "nasty thinking".. but I am sorry.. a dead woman found without anything on below her waist, well, that is usually a sexual assault case, IMO. [/*]

Don't forget too about intimidating someone through the embarrassment of nudity to keep them from running off....doesn't work on everyone, but it has on quite a few


and bank robbers and home invaders will do this to their victims even where no sex assault occurs...

if not for sex/rape --> then for more control /that much less struggle keeping Maria from escaping

[Sherlocksmom]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


interesting...

but why would LE care if ML was shopping for baby clothes? [/*]


Sorry I didn't explain better. If the item Maria bought had just been left in her car it would have given LE a lead. They would have a timestamped reciept to take to the store....perhaps asking the store for there surveillance footage of the date and time. If CL grabbed her there he might be on the tape. If he thought of that I can see him not wanting to leave the bag and item in her car.

[Sherlocksmom]

Originally posted by CanCan
I hate to bring this up again....but are we sure that ML was completely naked in the pit.........and that her shirt and bra were tossed on top of her??? TIA

jmo [/*]

Oh.....she wasn't wearing her shirt and bra either? They were just tossed on top of her? I did not know that.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by CanCan
I hate to bring this up again....but are we sure that ML was completely naked in the pit.........and that her shirt and bra were tossed on top of her??? TIA

jmo [/*]

no, the ME's report is not clear on that. Either her lower clothing burned completely away, or she didn't have on any lower clothing. IMO, it is not clear.

And no, we are not sure if her upper clothing was placed on top of her, or whether it was in fragments attached to her. Unfortunately, IMO, none of that is clear from the report. I think there could be multiple interpretations, as is the given in this case!

[Maka]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


ok.. so still part of the "lure" theory? [/*]

yes still using it as a lure but part of figuring out how the baby item was acquired.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Maka


Don't forget too about intimidating someone through the embarrassment of nudity to keep them from running off....doesn't work on everyone, but it has on quite a few


and bank robbers and home invaders will do this to their victims even where no sex assault occurs...

if not for sex/rape --> then for more control /that much less struggle keeping Maria from escaping [/*]

Interesting.. never thought about that...

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Sherlocksmom



Sorry I didn't explain better. If the item Maria bought had just been left in her car it would have given LE a lead. They would have a timestamped reciept to take to the store....perhaps asking the store for there surveillance footage of the date and time. If CL grabbed her there he might be on the tape. If he thought of that I can see him not wanting to leave the bag and item in her car. [/*]

oh ok.. I understand..

[Sherlocksmom]

Originally posted by Sami


Sherlock, that's a good thought, imo.

I do believe that it wasn't just coincidence that they met up that day.

WHY would Cesar just be hanging out at his house on a Friday evening while his wife is at HIS Christmas party?

I can never get past that -- there just has to be something that brought them together besides dumb coincidence, imo.

Either it was planned for some reason. . . Or they did just accidentally run into each other -- like you said, Sherlock, at a store where he might have seen her looking at Baby clothes.

That would have made him furious, imo. And I have always been searching for the catalyst that inspired him to act in such a desperate manner that particular day and moment in time. [/*]


Hey Sami!

I agree. Why was he at home that afternoon? Why was he not at work and then at the Xmas party? Too many coincidences on that day imo. Wonder if he called in sick that morning? That would indicate pre meditation.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Sherlocksmom


Oh.....she wasn't wearing her shirt and bra either? They were just tossed on top of her? I did not know that. [/*]

IMO, that part is not clear from the ME's report. One interpretation could certainly lead someone to conclude that her upper clothing was just tossed in on top of her body. Another interpretation could lead to the clothing fragments being on her body, as in clothed....

JMO

[Maka]

Originally posted by Sherlocksmom



Sorry I didn't explain better. If the item Maria bought had just been left in her car it would have given LE a lead. They would have a timestamped reciept to take to the store....perhaps asking the store for there surveillance footage of the date and time. If CL grabbed her there he might be on the tape. If he thought of that I can see him not wanting to leave the bag and item in her car. [/*]

Sure enough.

[mini-me]

Originally posted by CanCan
I hate to bring this up again....but are we sure that ML was completely naked in the pit.........and that her shirt and bra were tossed on top of her??? TIA

jmo [/*]Didn't Capt Sutherland say some of Maria's stuff was still missing.

[Sherlocksmom]

Originally posted by Sami


It could simply mean there was not enough 'body' left to wear the clothes, Sherlock.

The report called them fragment -- she was lying face down, her front side was more badly burned, and tags were evidently visible.

I think the fronts of the items might be gone, and the backs of the items (the fragments) were just seemingly 'lying' on her back.

MO [/*]


Ah ok. Still weird to me that there nothing below the waist at all, not even fragments. Why would pants and panties be completely burned away but the shirt, bra and baby item are not? What about her shoes? They would take longer to burn than clothing imo.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Sherlocksmom



Hey Sami!

I agree. Why was he at home that afternoon? Why was he not at work and then at the Xmas party? Too many coincidences on that day imo. Wonder if he called in sick that morning? That would indicate pre meditation. [/*]

I know this is not a popular theory, but I think CL got off work, and started having a few beers.... then he had a few more.. he was supposed to meet CSL at the party, but he just had a few too many beers..... then he decided he couldn't drive to the party, so he was just going to stay home...

But then again, I also think CL and CSL ran into ML in the parking lot on the way into the party, so obviously these two theories don't jive!

JMO

[hinman]

All right guys, great discussion today and right now but my eyes will not stay open any longer, pillow is calling my name.

:seeya:

[Jan Powell]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


I agree.. and although many posters don't agree, I think that fact means something.

Either her clothing below her waist burned away to nothing, which, I agree, is a possibility... or she didn't have clothing on below her waist.... which presents a whole lot of different possibilities, #1 in my mind being sexual assault prior/post murder.

Some posters have said this is um... I forgot the wording.. something like "nasty thinking".. but I am sorry.. a dead woman found without anything on below her waist, well, that is usually a sexual assault case, IMO. [/*]

I don't think she had the clothes on below her waist or that they were even put in the fire and I don't think it was sexual.

This is probably a far out opinion but the feeling I get is those items were missing as a final insult - it was personal. And, I wouldn't be surprised to read they were cut off of her and destroyed, that's the reason they didn't make it to the firepit with the shirt and bra.

[Sherlocksmom]

Originally posted by hinman
All right guys, great discussion today and right now but my eyes will not stay open any longer, pillow is calling my name.

:seeya: [/*]


Goodnight hinman & Sami :seeya:

[Maka]

Originally posted by mini-me
Didn't Capt Sutherland say some of Maria's stuff was still missing. [/*]

He did.

Dunno what though. They may have her glasses but not her driver's license or vice versa.

I wonder what's missing.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Jan Powell


I don't think she had the clothes on below her waist or that they were even put in the fire and I don't think it was sexual.

This is probably a far out opinion but the feeling I get is those items were missing as a final insult - it was personal. And, I wouldn't be surprised to read they were cut off of her and destroyed, that's the reason they didn't make it to the firepit with the shirt and bra. [/*]

Interesting thought..

Although I disagree.. from the cases I have followed, when a rapist kills his victim.. and the victim is found undressed from the waist down.. well, there is usually added insult to injury. JMO and I have no link.

[Maka]

Well, gang...I gotta go too.

Maybe there will be good news in the a.m.

[Sherlocksmom]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


Interesting thought..

Although I disagree.. from the cases I have followed, when a rapist kills his victim.. and the victim is found undressed from the waist down.. well, there is usually added insult to injury. JMO and I have no link. [/*]


We think alike. If he raped her before and he had decided to kill her than it isn't a stretch he may have raped her one last time before he bludgeoned her. That is of course if her pants and panties were definitely not on her. jmo

[Sherlocksmom]

Originally posted by Maka
Well, gang...I gotta go too.

Maybe there will be good news in the a.m. [/*]

night Maka :seeya:

[Jan Powell]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


Interesting thought..

Although I disagree.. from the cases I have followed, when a rapist kills his victim.. and the victim is found undressed from the waist down.. well, there is usually added insult to injury. JMO and I have no link. [/*]

Oh goodness, you don't need a link for me on that. As I understand it, it's not uncommon if a rapist kills his victim.

I'm just not convinced there was ever a sexual assault.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Sherlocksmom



We think alike. If he raped her before and he had decided to kill her than it isn't a stretch he may have raped her one last time before he bludgeoned her. That is of course if her pants and panties were definitely not on her. jmo [/*]

Agreed... there are other scenarios, though, which IMO implicate CSL as the muderer.... but who knows....

[Sherlocksmom]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


Agreed... there are other scenarios, though, which IMO implicate CSL as the muderer.... but who knows.... [/*]

Yep thats true enough too. I know some believe CSL is the murderer and while it is not my top theory I haven't ruled it out either.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Jan Powell


Oh goodness, you don't need a link for me on that. As I understand it, it's not uncommon if a rapist kills his victim.

I'm just not convinced there was ever a sexual assault. [/*]

well.. that is a whole 'nother case, IMO.

However, given he bludgeoned, buried, and barbequed her in his backyard.. then took off for sites unknown.. well, I would say we have halfway decent evidence that he was involved at some level... no?

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Sherlocksmom


Yep thats true enough too. I know some believe CSL is the murderer and while it is not my top theory I haven't ruled it out either. [/*]

I agree.. although all signs point to CL as the murderer.. the timeline is VERY tight... and the notes obviously clear CSL... so I think it is not impossible at all that she could be implicated...

JMO

[Babes]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


I agree.. although all signs point to CL as the murderer.. the timeline is VERY tight... and the notes obviously clear CSL... so I think it is not impossible at all that she could be implicated...

JMO [/*]


The notes are made only to clear Christina IMO. He doesnt really have to create a note if he already told Christina what happened and all CHristina needs to do is to narrate his story to the marines. IMO....

[Jan Powell]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


well.. that is a whole 'nother case, IMO.

However, given he bludgeoned, buried, and barbequed her in his backyard.. then took off for sites unknown.. well, I would say we have halfway decent evidence that he was involved at some level... no? [/*]

Absolutely he was involved. IMO, he deserves every charge they can prove and as much punishment as they can give him. And, I hope he's tried in the US however I'm not convinced Mexico will extradite him.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by Sami


Wasn't the biggest concentration of fire through her midsection? And I believe her legs were greatly impacted, so depending on the material involved, her slacks might have burned more readily than the material of the bra and shirt.

I bet she had on sweat pants. JMO [/*]

Well, her lower legs were burned completely off & so were her arms. The ME notes that her left torso was so damaged that her left lung was no longer present. I could not tell which ribs, right side or left, he referred to in the report, so I can't tell what condition they may have been overall.

Her stomach was missing, but that is closer to the torso area than the lower part of her pelvic area. I am guessing that purely by the thickness of the abdominal area that is why at least a bit was still recoverable - the loop of bowel & the fetal remains.

My theory is that Cesar had other help, I am thinking perhaps a male relative. Christina may have been in on some of it, but not the actual murder. I believe it is possible that a baby item was purchased by someone NOT Cesar for cash & that Maria was contacted by someone NOT Cesar nor Christina. Someone else Maria knew, someone who pretended to be more or less 'on her side' or friendly & who called her to say something along the lines of "hey, don't worry about making an appearance at that party - I just bought the cutest baby outfit - I'll come over to the house & give it to you".

Maria was taken unaware when Cesar & person X showed up. She was threatened by both - through a specific threat to harm her baby. She was told that if she agreed to write that note, pack some things, make everyone think she was leaving, she would be eventually let go to get on the bus. But - if she ever came back it would be all over.

She writes the note, she goes to the ATM for the money, she gets the bus ticket but the 3 of them find out there is no space on that night's bus.

Cesar & person X do not expect that change of events, so she is taken to Cesar's house where she is murdered.

The baby item still in the bag is tossed into the pit with her because the person who purchased it does not want to be remembered by anyone as having bought an item of baby clothing.

That's the essentials. Dang! I should have put this in the theory thread!

JMO

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by Sherlocksmom



We think alike. If he raped her before and he had decided to kill her than it isn't a stretch he may have raped her one last time before he bludgeoned her. That is of course if her pants and panties were definitely not on her. jmo [/*]

I can see how her socks could have been burned into nothingness & her panties as well. But I am having trouble figuring out how her outer pants could have been completely consumed by fire. If she was wearing tennis shoes, I do not believe there would be any way they could be entirely consumed by fire - I would expect there to be some puddle of melted rubber/plastic/whatever somewhere.

It really alarmed me to realize there does not seem to be any evidence of her shoes, socks, underpants or outerpants being in the burn pit. While there may not have been any final sexual assault, there is also the distinct possibility there WAS one.

If that is so - that Cesar bludgeoned her to death, put her in the pit, had multiple fires on top of her body AND sexually assaulted her - I fear for other people who may be in close proximity to him now. Not his family or close friends, but a more casual acquaintance. If he possesses enough anger to do all the above, that anger could reveal itself again, if he believes his location is about to be revealed or that he may be captured soon.

All JMO.

[henry]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


yeah.. I agree.. that really has me reconsidering a few things..

I posted the other day whether there was monogramming on the baby clothing that said "Daddy's little boy" and got no response. Maybe that was offensive? I dunno. I was just trying to think of reasons why that baby clothing would be there.....

(I wasn't trying to be offensive)

JMO [/*]

i'd be interested in the color . . . pink, blue, or green/yellow

[henry]

Originally posted by Jan Powell


#2 is very strange to me, that shook me more than any part of the autopsy. I expect and prepare myself for a lot of things in a ME report, that one caught me way off guard. [/*]

yeah, me four+ . . . and thinking back & trying to link up sbrown's "bizarre" word . . . i think this may be the connecting piece of info . . . jmo

[martha]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


I agree, Martha.. and I want to apologize for my post many moons ago about being off-topic. You just happened to be one of the people talking about something, and I just happened to quote you... but I have absolutely no problem with your posts, and I feel your genuine interest in this case. So peace? [/*]No apologize needed I understand and I do get o/t sometimes. I need to use pm just not a very good poster. It is so hard to even think about what he did to ml but I still want to know when he is caught. thanks for letting me be a part of this board.:rose: