Friday ~ 03-14-08 ~ a.m.

[Maka]

Originally posted by hinman
So are some thinking they were having sex and that is why there is no pants or panties?

I am not sure I am following this. Why was she in a green shirt when the ATM video showed her in a sweat shirt?

What happened to the pants and panties I am assuming they burned up along with her sweatshirt or she changed before her death? [/*]

maybe she was wearing that shirt under the sweatshirt

:shrug:

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


I thought JDN had it too Nuttintodo. :(

I definitely remember him saying that tho. [/*]

JDNews probably did too but I remember watching the video on wnct.com as I don't watch Channel 9's news broadcast (that's wnct btw).

Not meaning to go O/T but I thought you'd be interested in this:

http://www.wral.com/news/news_briefs/story/2578455/

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by henry


but . . . the report is not back as to whether an axcellerant (crap-i can never spell that word) was used . . . so there could be more charges, allegedly, down the line . . . jmo [/*]

true, Henry... but from what I am reading from this report, there were nails and studs BELOW the dirt.. which to me implies that the fence sections were put on over her body before the dirt was added on top.

JMO

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by Maka


maybe she was wearing that shirt under the sweatshirt

:shrug: [/*]

Good point. Perhaps.

[Sherlocksmom]

Originally posted by hinman
I think she saw the blow coming also. I don't see how she couldn't:(

Why the overkill though the slicing of her neck just sickening. [/*]


The slicing was his attempt at backing up the "suicide" story. It was a poor attempt of course but I guess when you are desperate you will try anything?

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by Howiefan

what if she indeed was wearing that green knit shirt... what happened to the sweat shirt that she had on at the ATM machine on the 14th.. What if she went home to change....into the green knit shirt and Laurean was waiting for her and forced her into truck or whatever... maybe heaven forbid raped her...She looked very nervous at that ATM machine
This is one awful way to die and that poor baby... Kill someone if you must but to do this to a woman or anyone and their unborn child... Man this guy deserves to burn in hell [/*]

I cannot wrap my mind around him raping her at that point in time. No way.

[hinman]

Originally posted by Maka


maybe she was wearing that shirt under the sweatshirt

:shrug: [/*]It was knit would that be thick? :shrug: I guess I don't see how her pants and undies and sweatshirt born to nothing yet the green knit shirt doesn't and the baby outfit doesn't.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by hinman
So are some thinking they were having sex and that is why there is no pants or panties?

I am not sure I am following this. Why was she in a green shirt when the ATM video showed her in a sweat shirt?

What happened to the pants and panties I am assuming they burned up along with her sweatshirt or she changed before her death? [/*]

I dunno, Hinman.. the report is odd.. it seems the clothing was placed on top of her body in the pit from what I am reading.

As far as the green shirt/sweatshirt goes.. she could have had the green shirt on under the sweatshirt? Who knows...

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
Given these autopsy results, it is not clear to me why LE said that CL did not intend to burn the bodies...

Any ideas on this? [/*]

Maybe because she was mostly charred on one side (left).:shrug:

imoo

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by Sami


She was possibly trying to dodge it, even, since it seemed to be at her ear area. I doubt someone would wield a crowbar at a side angle, so maybe she was trying to get out of the way of the blow by turning her head. :( [/*]

it could have been swung like someone would swing a bat....

[hinman]

Shouldn't he be charged with desecration of the body or something?

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by hinman
It was knit would that be thick? :shrug: I guess I don't see how her pants and undies and sweatshirt born to nothing yet the green knit shirt doesn't and the baby outfit doesn't. [/*]

anything on the legs and arms would burn more quickly...

[hinman]

Originally posted by Sami
After reading this report, (and if Cesar is the killer), it seems fairly obvious that a cold-blooded killer is out here, running free with the rest of us.

Do you really doubt that he would/could kill again, if provoked? [/*]If Ceasar is not the killer do you really think that Christina would not kill again. I mean would it not just tick you off that she was free as can be and classified as a cooperating witness.

That is why I do not think she is the killer.

[henry]

Originally posted by Jas.S


Not more charges, Henry.

And for sure the autopsy report does not show the tests for the accelerant.

But I am sure they have those by now. [/*]

how are you sure? . . . would like to find out more facts as well . . . tia

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Sami


She was possibly trying to dodge it, even, since it seemed to be at her ear area. I doubt someone would wield a crowbar at a side angle, so maybe she was trying to get out of the way of the blow by turning her head. :( [/*]

Frankly I am puzzled about the blunt force trauma diagram to the head. I just don't see a long cylindrical object leaving this kind of very tight area of destruction.:confused:

LE has never come out and confirmed it was a crowbar. Only the media has said that. It seems the object would have been wider causing the skull to cave in when wielded.

imoo

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by Sami
With two hands? How awful. . . .

:cuss: [/*]

it is and the report said there were hinge fractures at the neck

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Jas.S


Me, either.

And neither do the police, it would appears, or the DA, since there are no such charges.

I am just not going to even think about those things which are just really nasty conjectures with no basis in fact. [/*]

These are not nasty conjectures. It appears her clothes were placed on top of her body, if I am reading the report correctly. And since there were no uterine remains, I doubt very seriously whether the ME could find evidence of any pre or post-mortem rape. JMO

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by Sherlocksmom



The slicing was his attempt at backing up the "suicide" story. It was a poor attempt of course but I guess when you are desperate you will try anything? [/*]

A very poor attempt I might add...the wound was deemed to be superficial and barely in muscle.

JMO

[Sherlocksmom]

Originally posted by Sami
After reading this report, (and if Cesar is the killer), it seems fairly obvious that a cold-blooded killer is out here, running free with the rest of us.

Do you really doubt that he would/could kill again, if provoked? [/*]


I think he has proven he is capable of the unthinkable so nothing is beyond him in my mind. He already did (if he is the killer) what most normal people would find unthinkable.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by hinman
Shouldn't he be charged with desecration of the body or something? [/*]

I would say YES one thousand times over, but depending on the WORDING...even tho some don't like words....the law might call for intent or something of that nature and perhaps they didn't find him deliberate in actions to desecrate the bodies, but rather found him guilty of trying to hide what he had done from the neighbors and friends.

JMO and nothing more. :(

[Sherlocksmom]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


These are not nasty conjectures. It appears her clothes were placed on top of her body, if I am reading the report correctly. And since there were no uterine remains, I doubt very seriously whether the ME could find evidence of any pre or post-mortem rape. JMO [/*]


Exactly right.:(

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by henry


how are you sure? . . . would like to find out more facts as well . . . tia [/*]

I believe hinman said that Sutherland had commented over on JDN that they are pretty much through now and are just going back and getting the case ready for trial by making sure the evidence is succinct and tidy.

imoo

[bkwits]

Originally posted by strick10
I'm looking at the diagram showing where Maria was fataly hit and it leads me to believe that she saw the blow coming and may have turned her head out of instinct. Anyone have any input of this. I was hoping that she didn't see the blow coming and that the fatal hit was located at the back of her head to save her the realization of what was about to happen. Plz don't anyone misunderstand what I'm saying as I do truely wish Maria were still here with us. [/*]

I understood the compassion in what you were saying. I also thought the blow seemed more to the side of her head than the back. IMO

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Sami


I remember someone (Sheriff Ed?) saying that the skull had marks like the 'claw' end of a crowbar would leave. IMO [/*]

I never heard him say that.

[Sherlocksmom]

Originally posted by Jas.S


It does.

The aut report says it was superficial. [/*]


It does what??:confused:

Her neck was sliced post mortem and he alledgedly claims she committed suicide by slicing her own neck. It was a poor attempt on his part but nobody claimed he was smart.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


JDNews probably did too but I remember watching the video on wnct.com as I don't watch Channel 9's news broadcast (that's wnct btw).

Not meaning to go O/T but I thought you'd be interested in this:

http://www.wral.com/news/news_briefs/story/2578455/ [/*]

That brightens my evening Nuttintodo. He was a good guy and almost suffered injustice himself for doing the right thing. Thanks.

If the numerology is correct, we can expect Cesar to be caught on 4/14. ;)

JMO

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Frankly I am puzzled about the blunt force trauma diagram to the head. I just don't see a long cylindrical object leaving this kind of very tight area of destruction.:confused:

LE has never come out and confirmed it was a crowbar. Only the media has said that. It seems the object would have been wider causing the skull to cave in when wielded.

imoo [/*]

Looks like a wider type of implement and I'm venturing a guess----perhaps a shovel or a smaller shovel, not necessarily one with a long handle? Does the MC still hand those out like they once did?

JMO

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


I would say YES one thousand times over, but depending on the WORDING...even tho some don't like words....the law might call for intent or something of that nature and perhaps they didn't find him deliberate in actions to desecrate the bodies, but rather found him guilty of trying to hide what he had done from the neighbors and friends.

JMO and nothing more. :( [/*]

Right, I think if accelerants had been found and the charring was overall instead mostly to the left side they may have charged him with intent to desecrate a corpse. However I do not believe they think that was his intent so therefore no charges will be filed on that imo.

imoo

[Maka]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


I dunno, Hinman.. the report is odd.. it seems the clothing was placed on top of her body in the pit from what I am reading.

As far as the green shirt/sweatshirt goes.. she could have had the green shirt on under the sweatshirt? Who knows... [/*]

more possibilities -

SBI placed the clothing on top due to it coming off during examination

or

there were a few cold weather solid green knit shirts on the garage floor along with some other gear...it could have been one of those he might used to clean up with or whatever

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Maka


maybe she was wearing that shirt under the sweatshirt

:shrug: [/*]

That's what I thought. I always wear a shirt under my sweatshirt, particularly a hoodie.

[strick10]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Looks like a wider type of implement and I'm venturing a guess----perhaps a shovel or a smaller shovel, not necessarily one with a long handle? Does the MC still hand those out like they once did?

JMO [/*]

Yes e-tools are still issued to the Marines.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Jas.S


But since LE has never once alluded to any such thing, and neither was CL charged with such a thing, it is sheer conjecture.
And since having sex with a corpse is just really rare, and just really nasty---there it is.

JMO. [/*]

So why do you think her clothes were on top of her body? He killed her, then stripped her, and buried her? To me, that makes no sense.

Usually, when a body is naked, there is a reason... JMO

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Looks like a wider type of implement and I'm venturing a guess----perhaps a shovel or a smaller shovel, not necessarily one with a long handle? Does the MC still hand those out like they once did?

JMO [/*]

You read my mind Nuttin. That is exactly the first thing that came to my mind when I saw the diagram.

imoo

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


I cannot wrap my mind around him raping her at that point in time. No way. [/*]

ME either. barf

Somewhere someone has suggested post-mortem unless mine eyes are deceiving me. :(

[hinman]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I believe hinman said that Sutherland had commented over on JDN that they are pretty much through now and are just going back and getting the case ready for trial by making sure the evidence is succinct and tidy.

imoo [/*]yep he did. It was on page 2 or 3 on the comments section. I don't have a link though I should of saved it.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by Sami


I remember someone (Sheriff Ed?) saying that the skull had marks like the 'claw' end of a crowbar would leave. IMO [/*]

A claw could possibly leave a 5" by 4" defect?

Maybe it's me but the area looks like it was done with something wider than from a claw on a crowbar.

jmo

[Sherlocksmom]

Originally posted by Jas.S


The autopsy report says that the cut was superficial. [/*]


I know. And?? LOL Not sure what your point is Jas sorry. :shrug:

[strick10]

Originally posted by Maka


more possibilities -

SBI placed the clothing on top due to it coming off during examination

or

there were a few cold weather solid green knit shirts on the garage floor along with some other gear...it could have been one of those he might used to clean up with or whatever [/*]

Just thought of something. It could have been the green t-shirts worn under the Marine uniform. They're really comfy and not thick. Perfect for wearing under a sweat shirt as I used to do.

[hinman]

Originally posted by strick10


Just thought of something. It could have been the green t-shirts worn under the Marine uniform. They're really comfy and not thick. Perfect for wearing under a sweat shirt as I used to do. [/*]Good thought I wonder if they are knit? For some reason when I hear knit I think of a sweater.

[Maka]

Originally posted by bkwits


That's what I thought. I always wear a shirt under my sweatshirt, particularly a hoodie. [/*]

I do too....the seams are scratchy and I end up getting too hot and want to take it off.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


ME either. barf

Somewhere someone has suggested post-mortem unless mine eyes are deceiving me. :( [/*]

To me.. either CL and ML were having sex and CSL walked in.. or CL raped her post-mortem.

The only other possibility that I can come up with is that CL and ML were having sex and then he killed her. That scenario doesn't ring true to me.. however, weirder things have happened.

And then, I suppose, there is the possibility that ML was running around naked trying to "lure" CL into sex... again, I find this unlikely.

Just trying to examine the possibilities. None of us have any idea what happened... JMO

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by Sherlocksmom



ITA hinman! :( God i wish they could find this pos and throw his behind in jail! Guess the cutting of the throat post mortem debate is settled now. [/*]

All we asked is that it come straight from the ME's report, and not some un-named source.

It has now and yes, that does settle the debate.

(On that one thing anyway :D )

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by strick10


Just thought of something. It could have been the green t-shirts worn under the Marine uniform. They're really comfy and not thick. Perfect for wearing under a sweat shirt as I used to do. [/*]

That's a possibility strick---those Olive drab undershirts as I call them!

[strick10]

Originally posted by hinman
Good thought I wonder if they are knit? [/*]

Cotton is available and alot of Marines use those, but, there is a knit blend that keeps it's shape alot better and doesn't fade as quickly. The knits were my preference, they looked neater.

[Maka]

Originally posted by strick10


Just thought of something. It could have been the green t-shirts worn under the Marine uniform. They're really comfy and not thick. Perfect for wearing under a sweat shirt as I used to do. [/*]

True dat and really accommodating for an expanding belly!

[Sherlocksmom]

Originally posted by Jas.S


I was agreeing with you. [/*]


LOL Ok gotcha. :seeya:

[Sherlocksmom]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


All we asked is that it come straight from the ME's report, and not some un-named source.

It has now and yes, that does settle the debate.

(On that one thing anyway :D ) [/*]


LOL Good to have an issue settled here. Now about the rug........:biggrin:

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


To me.. either CL and ML were having sex and CSL walked in.. or CL raped her post-mortem.

The only other possibility that I can come up with is that CL and ML were having sex and then he killed her. That scenario doesn't ring true to me.. however, weirder things have happened.

And then, I suppose, there is the possibility that ML was running around naked trying to "lure" CL into sex... again, I find this unlikely.

Just trying to examine the possibilities. None of us have any idea what happened... JMO [/*]

Well, I'm not seeing a rape post mortem, however.....if CSL walked in and Maria was lying on her right side, (with possibly her back to the doorway) that would definitely explain all the injury to the left side of her head.

Explains the comforter too.

I'm even more convinced that Christina is in this up to her eyeballs.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Sherlocksmom



LOL Good to have an issue settled here. Now about the rug........:biggrin: [/*]

Given those autopsy results, esp. with regards to ML's clothing, I think the rug theory is increasing in probability.. JMO.

[strick10]

Originally posted by Maka


True dat and really accommodating for an expanding belly! [/*]

Yes they do accommodate quite nicely. And now there are pregnancy cammies so the green shirt would be worn under that. Get home take off your cammie jacket, slip on a hoodie and you're good to go.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


Well, I'm not seeing a rape post mortem, however.....if CSL walked in and Maria was lying on her right side, (with possibly her back to the doorway) that would definitely explain all the injury to the left side of her head.

Explains the comforter too.

I'm even more convinced that Christina is in this up to her eyeballs. [/*]

yes.. and like I posted earlier upthread, that was my first reaction to the autopsy results... basically, that CL and ML were having sex and CSL walked in.

JMO

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by strick10


Yes e-tools are still issued to the Marines. [/*]

TY I couldn't remember what they were called.

[hinman]

The autopsy says
The decedent is received face down in a body bag. She has been wrapped in a sheet.
The sheet is removed to reveal fragments of charred clothing on top of a charred and decomposed body. The clothing
consist of a sports bra, medium size, and a green knit shirt.

So could the clothes been charred and feel off.

[gaelicpeas]

I think the sheet/comforter thing is also telling. Young adults that age USUALLY don't have multiple sets of sheets and comforters like us older ones do.

Now, that is purely conjecture on my part... so JMO.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


All we asked is that it come straight from the ME's report, and not some un-named source.

It has now and yes, that does settle the debate.

(On that one thing anyway :D ) [/*]

But I'm curious about one thing, Capt. Rick wouldn't answer a question about the autopsy and basically said it wasn't released. Wonder why he said that? Too prejudicial to the jury pool?

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Jas.S


It does.

The aut report says it was superficial. [/*]

And the ME does not firmly state that this cut was done after death. He says "MAY HAVE"

"Death is most likely due to blunt force injury to the head. The incised wound to the neck appears to be real (not an
artefact of charring) but may have occurred after death."

imoo

[strick10]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


TY I couldn't remember what they were called. [/*]

Sturdy little suckers they are. Takes forever to dig a hole as they are small and they are designed for digging w/ the upper strength only. Too short to per say use your foot which how many of them are broken when someone tries to use their feet, not designed to be used that way.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by hinman
The autopsy says
The decedent is received face down in a body bag. She has been wrapped in a sheet.
The sheet is removed to reveal fragments of charred clothing on top of a charred and decomposed body. The clothing
consist of a sports bra, medium size, and a green knit shirt.

So could the clothes been charred and feel off. [/*]

Could be.. except the report says nothing about clothing found under her body.. which, IMO, if she had on clothing, the clothing under her body would have been more preserved.

Well, except for what Jan Doe or Jan Powell (sorry, I get you two mixed up!) said about a fire burning hotter on the bottom....

JMO

[henry]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


To me.. either CL and ML were having sex and CSL walked in.. or CL raped her post-mortem.

The only other possibility that I can come up with is that CL and ML were having sex and then he killed her. That scenario doesn't ring true to me.. however, weirder things have happened.

And then, I suppose, there is the possibility that ML was running around naked trying to "lure" CL into sex... again, I find this unlikely.

Just trying to examine the possibilities. None of us have any idea what happened... JMO [/*]

where's a nurse when we need one . . . iirc from a nurses aide that worked for us . . . there is much cleaning that needs to be done after someone dies & didn't want to know much more . . . bodily fluids are released . . . jmo

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


But I'm curious about one thing, Capt. Rick wouldn't answer a question about the autopsy and basically said it wasn't released. Wonder why he said that? Too prejudicial to the jury pool? [/*]

Probably because most of us are no longer buying the "cooperating witness" mantra. The autopsy just kinda screams it out.

JMO and all that.

[gaelicpeas]

pre or post-mortem.. the ME report clearly says the neck cut would not have been fatal.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


Well, I'm not seeing a rape post mortem, however.....if CSL walked in and Maria was lying on her right side, (with possibly her back to the doorway) that would definitely explain all the injury to the left side of her head.

Explains the comforter too.

I'm even more convinced that Christina is in this up to her eyeballs. [/*]

Me too. :(

jmo

[donna]

I was looking at the diagrams in the autopsy reports when the dooebell rang. There was my sweet next door neighbor with a plate of fresh baked brownies. Bless her heart! I almost opened the door and yelled WHAT?????

Sami, I looked at the diagrams and for the life of me cannot remember what you had asked me? Let me know!

I was thinking also that CAL may have cut Maria's abdomen open.

I am also thinking that if Maria's body were nude, what do you all think the reason was? She apparently did have on her sports bra and green shirt. These garments were not burned completely. Shouldn't there at least been even a tiny scrap of panties and pants? WHY no panties and pants?

I think that probably Maria's body was rolled into the pit and the left side is how it came to rest in the pit. I just bet there was some sort of acellerant poured into the pit even before the body was rolled in.

:flamemad:

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by Jas.S
And there is something you can just see, can't you, grabbing the top sheet and the comforter? In one swipe? [/*]

Yep. Clear as a bell.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by henry


where's a nurse when we need one . . . iirc from a nurses aide that worked for us . . . there is much cleaning that needs to be done after someone dies & didn't want to know much more . . . bodily fluids are released . . . jmo [/*]

sometimes, not always, bodily fluids are released. depends on whether there are any bodily fluids to be released, for one...

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
pre or post-mortem.. the ME report clearly says the neck cut would not have been fatal. [/*]

Again, I would think a man might have more of an impact with the knife as opposed to a cooperating witness woman IMHOO of course. :(

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Sami
The bodies only weighed 95 pounds and only 51 inches long.

That tells me that a lot of her body (and his) was burned away completely. [/*]

yeah... that particular detail was one of the more horrendous ones, IMO. Well, heck, it was all horrendous.

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


Could be.. except the report says nothing about clothing found under her body.. which, IMO, if she had on clothing, the clothing under her body would have been more preserved.

Well, except for what Jan Doe or Jan Powell (sorry, I get you two mixed up!) said about a fire burning hotter on the bottom....

JMO [/*]

it burns longer underneath....hotter on top

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


sometimes, not always, bodily fluids are released. depends on whether there are any bodily fluids to be released, for one... [/*]

Yes some does and some don't. It depends on many variables.

imoo

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by donna
I am also thinking that if Maria's body were nude, what do you all think the reason was? She apparently did have on her sports bra and green shirt. These garments were not burned completely. Shouldn't there at least been even a tiny scrap of panties and pants? WHY no panties and pants?
:flamemad: [/*]

Annie, from my reading of the ME report, her bra, shirt, etc were found on top of her body, not ON her body...

JMO

[bkwits]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


yeah... that particular detail was one of the more horrendous ones, IMO. Well, heck, it was all horrendous. [/*]


Sheriff Brown had said her body was not intact. That there were only remains.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by Jas.S
And there is something you can just see, can't you, grabbing the top sheet and the comforter? In one swipe? [/*]

Oh definitely I can see it.

Now if CSL didn't know, how did her sweet (gag me) hubby explain their mysterious disappearance?

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by JanDoe


it burns longer underneath.... [/*]

Could be.. but what about the fact that the right side of her body was not as charred?

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Jas.S


I found the fire burning hotter on the bottom interesting, too.

But the body diagrams show one thigh not charred in front, portions of both legs not charred, one side of pelvic area, front, not charred. So they would have found panties and pants. At least fragments. [/*]

It seems the part most likely closer to the upper ground level was charred and the other side not so much.

ETA: And it seems to me once the heat began to build in the cavity it would eventually rise up to the top.

imoo

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


It seems the part most likely closer to the upper ground level was charred and the other side not so much.

imoo [/*]

does anyone remember science lab class?
a blue flame (the top) burns hottest
the red flame (the bottom) burns longer

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by bkwits



Sheriff Brown had said her body was not intact. That there were only remains. [/*]

Can you understand how the sight of the baby's hand affected him so, not taking anything away from the sight of Maria's condition?

You should see him talking about it now. His eyes still well up with tears.

JMO

[Howiefan]

Originally posted by Jas.S


But since LE has never once alluded to any such thing, and neither was CL charged with such a thing, it is sheer conjecture.
And since having sex with a corpse is just really rare, and just really nasty---there it is.

JMO. [/*]

rare maybe but possible or maybe you don't think these two murders are petty rare and gruesome
jmo

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


Could be.. but what about the fact that the right side of her body was not as charred? [/*]

could be she was on her side to some degree....the left side
down and exposed to the coals for a longer period of time.

[gaelicpeas]

So.. what have we learned that is new from the autopsy report?

1. It appears ML was buried nude with some of her clothing thrown in on top of her body. (well, at least that is my best reading of the report).

2. There was also a baby outfit in a plastic bag thrown in on top of ML's body.

Anything else?

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


Could be.. but what about the fact that the right side of her body was not as charred? [/*]

And trapped heat rises.

imoo

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Can you understand how the sight of the baby's hand affected him so, not taking anything away from the sight of Maria's condition?

You should see him talking about it now. His eyes still well up with tears.

JMO [/*]

:(

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
So.. what have we learned that is new from the autopsy report?

1. It appears ML was buried nude with some of her clothing thrown in on top of her body. (well, at least that is my best reading of the report).

2. There was also a baby outfit in a plastic bag thrown in on top of ML's body.

Anything else? [/*]

cut to the neck "may have" been done after death but was not a fatal wound.

[gaelicpeas]

3. A comforter and sheet were found with the bodies.

[JanDoe]

The distal portions of all
four extremities are charred away, as indicated on the attached diagram.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by Sami


Have you talked to him, nuttin, or seen him lately? TIA [/*]

Yes I have, most recently was a couple of weeks ago. I spoke to him for a few minutes while I was at the courthouse concerning an incident that happened on our property.

And he has aged a lot since this happened.

I just have to post this, he still has the same cell phone number that he gave out on national tv. :eek:

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Jas.S


Oh, they are all gruesome. No doubt about that.

Unfortunately, they are not that rare. :(

The number one cause of death of pregnant women is murder. :( [/*]

That is because women who are of mother age are the least likely to die from other causes. They are the healthiest age group of all women.

The second cause of death for pregnant women this age I believe is vehicle accidents.

imoo

[gaelicpeas]

Since I have never thrown a body into a pit (or even say a roast of beef) and then burned fence sections over it, then covered it with dirt, then had bonfires over it.. I really have no idea what would burn and what wouldn't.

JMO

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by JanDoe
The distal portions of all
four extremities are charred away, as indicated on the attached diagram. [/*]

Where can the diagrams be found?

TIA

[Howiefan]

Originally posted by Jas.S


I think she was naked when she was killed. [/*]
well how did she get naked?

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
3. A comforter and sheet were found with the bodies. [/*]

Staples and nails were found via X-rays.

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


Where can the diagrams be found?

TIA [/*]

attached to the report.......I didn't keep the report but if you go
back there is a link posted today...

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Jas.S


An item of baby clothing.

Cannot say it was a baby outfit.

Could have been shoes, hat, etc. [/*]

I stand corrected, ty.

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by JanDoe


attached to the report.......I didn't keep the report but if you go
back there is a link posted today... [/*]

around page 13

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by JanDoe


attached to the report.......I didn't keep the report but if you go
back there is a link posted today... [/*]

Thanks!

<heads back a few pages>

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


Again, I would think a man might have more of an impact with the knife as opposed to a cooperating witness woman IMHOO of course. :( [/*]

I find that very strange that a man would not have slashed the entire throat deeply.

Alas, more that does not add up in this case.:(

imoo

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Yes I have, most recently was a couple of weeks ago. I spoke to him for a few minutes while I was at the courthouse concerning an incident that happened on our property.

And he has aged a lot since this happened.

I just have to post this, he still has the same cell phone number that he gave out on national tv. :eek: [/*]

How ironic and what a testament to the kind of genuine guy Ed Brown is nuttintodo. I remember some posters saying he probably changed it right after it came out. ;)

I have always thought he was authentic and that he cared deeply.

JMO

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


Where can the diagrams be found?

TIA [/*]

Pages 4, 5, 6, and 7, with page 4 showing where the distal portions of all four extremities are charred away, as indicated on the attached diagram.

http://www.jdnews.com/attachments/jxqt6p-lauterbachautopsy1.pdf

[JanDoe]

some materials used for bedding and clothes are fire retardant
and won't burn as well as other fabrics.....

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Sami


I think ya'll are mistaking that 'sheet' portion of the report.

I read it that the body presented in a body bag, and had been wrapped in a sheet.

This is done to contain any forensic material that might come off the body in transit.

That is why it was stated that the sheet was sent for anlysis, along with a CHARRED comforter.

Didn't say the sheet was charred -- I think because she was placed in that sheet, by LE, to preserve the forensic evidence on her body.

I don't think he hastily grabbed a sheet and comforter. JMO [/*]

you could be right, Sami.

But still, how many comforters do 20-somethings have lying around?

I know I have tons of them (but I am more than twice their age).. because comforters can always be used for something (and I never kept them because I thought I could one day wrap a body in them). But they do come in handy. However, when I was their age, I had one comforter only.

Just my experience and JMO.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Sami


I think ya'll are mistaking that 'sheet' portion of the report.

I read it that the body presented in a body bag, and had been wrapped in a sheet.

This is done to contain any forensic material that might come off the body in transit.

That is why it was stated that the sheet was sent for analysis, along with a CHARRED comforter.

Didn't say the sheet was charred -- I think because she was placed in that sheet, by LE, to preserve the forensic evidence on her body.

I don't think he hastily grabbed a sheet and comforter. JMO [/*]

Just the comforter.

Something tells me they didn't have that many extra comforters laying around. He was only a Corporal and his pay was not much higher than Maria's.

imoo

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny


Pages 4, 5, 6, and 7, with page 4 showing where the distal portions of all four extremities are charred away, as indicated on the attached diagram.

http://www.jdnews.com/attachments/jxqt6p-lauterbachautopsy1.pdf [/*]

Thank you Lynn! I was gettin' vertigo scrolling back so fast!

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


I stand corrected, ty. [/*]

But, in the report is does indicate an item of baby clothing with a label "Size 0-3 months."

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I find that very strange that a man would not have slashed the entire throat deeply.

Alas, more that does not add up in this case.:(

imoo [/*]

could he have been thinking "I have to make this look like she
did it" ?

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by JanDoe
some materials used for bedding and clothes are fire retardant
and won't burn as well as other fabrics..... [/*]

good point, especially baby clothing. But women's panties?

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


good point, especially baby clothing. But women's panties? [/*]

I think panties would burn very quickly....

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny


But, in the report is does indicate an item of baby clothing with a label "Size 0-3 months." [/*]

Thanks, Lynn... I try to rely on my memory, but you always come to the rescue. :)

[Howiefan]

Originally posted by Sami
The bodies only weighed 95 pounds and only 51 inches long.

That tells me that a lot of her body (and his) was burned away completely. [/*]
I thought the same thing same..although body fluids were gone by now for sure

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by Jas.S


Here:

http://www.jdnews.com/attachments/jxqt6p-lauterbachautopsy1.pdf

Did anyone put this in the links pg yet? [/*]

I posted the JDNews link.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by JanDoe


I think panties would burn very quickly.... [/*]

good point... but her pants?

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Yes I have, most recently was a couple of weeks ago. I spoke to him for a few minutes while I was at the courthouse concerning an incident that happened on our property.

And he has aged a lot since this happened.

I just have to post this, he still has the same cell phone number that he gave out on national tv. :eek: [/*]

Next time you see Ed, Nuttin give him a big old hug from this South Georgia girl.

You know from day one I saw this man had a heart of gold and a goodness inside of him.

He is genuine..........no fluff and I like that. He is not afraid to show he cares.:rose:

imoo

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by Howiefan

I thought the same thing same..although body fluids were gone by now for sure [/*]

was there more than one fire lit over the period of time?

[strick10]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


you could be right, Sami.

But still, how many comforters do 20-somethings have lying around?

I know I have tons of them (but I am more than twice their age).. because comforters can always be used for something (and I never kept them because I thought I could one day wrap a body in them). But they do come in handy. However, when I was their age, I had one comforter only.

Just my experience and JMO. [/*]

Just asked my 20 something daughter whom has been married for 3 years. She has 3 comforters for the master and 2 for the grandbaby. Says they're too expensive to buy them all the time. She thinks I've lost my mind asking her that.

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


good point... but her pants? [/*]

yes, I think so because the legs would burn easier and faster than the torso..

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Next time you see Ed, Nuttin give him a big old hug from this South Georgia girl.

You know from day one I saw this man had a heart of gold and a goodness inside of him.

He is genuine..........no fluff and I like that. He is not afraid to show he cares.:rose:

imoo [/*]

Speaking of.. Sheriff Brown and the top honchos at NCIS/MC have received a lot of flak.

From my reading of everything, if there were mistakes by either entity, those mistakes were made at the very lower levels, i.e., detectives, lower-level MC officers, etc.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by JanDoe


could he have been thinking "I have to make this look like she
did it" ? [/*]

Well people have slashed their throats before when committing suicide although it is a ver rare method.

I would have thought he would have made it the typical slashing across the throat.

imoo

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


good point... but her pants? [/*]

And yet the comforter remains somewhat intact?

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by JanDoe


was there more than one fire lit over the period of time? [/*]

According to the neighbors, FWIW, there were several bonfires over at the Laureans during the time frame.

[Maka]

Originally posted by old_lady
The autopsy report is horrible. To bad the DA didn't try to get it sealed. I feel so sorry for Maria's family. This report is all over the internet by now with ghouls picking it apart.

Sorry, but this is horrible for the family.

Maria, Gabriel, family and friends.:rose: :rose: :rose:

jmoo [/*]

I hear ya.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I find that very strange that a man would not have slashed the entire throat deeply.

Alas, more that does not add up in this case.:(

imoo [/*]

If we believe what CAL wrote in his 'novellas' one could have the perception that her throat was really slashed, not like the superficial wound that was found during autopsy.

And yes more to add to the doesn't not add up file, that's growing larger by leaps and bounds.

JMO

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by JanDoe


yes, I think so because the legs would burn easier and faster than the torso.. [/*]

Could be.. but why would the rest of her clothing (bra, shirt, etc) be found on top of her body?

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


And yet the comforter remains somewhat intact? [/*]

fire retardant?
I know race-car drivers wear a certain type of overall that is
fire retardant...but if the fire is able to get inside the overall
it burns from the inside..

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


And yet the comforter remains somewhat intact? [/*]

good point, Cryme...

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


Could be.. but why would the rest of her clothing (bra, shirt, etc) be found on top of her body? [/*]

less exposure to the coals....the underneath can remain exposed
to the coals for days....

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by JanDoe


was there more than one fire lit over the period of time? [/*]

1. Initially when Maria was put in the pit and covered with the wood fence slats and burned.

2. Christmas Eve

3. Christmas Day

4. NY Eve

Trace Gallagher touring the crime scene and in that video, he says ... they believe that he dug down about 2-1/2 or 3 feet and put Lauterbach's body there, and then used the sections of the fence on top of her and lit them on fire. The Medical Examiner says that because it was so charred he believes the fire burned very hot and for a very long time. Then, when there was nothing but ash, he put more mud and more dirt put on top. Police believe this took several hours if not a couple of days. (@50 seconds in the video countdown)

http://tinyurl.com/2kx2d2


Several of Laurean's neighbors are telling media outlets, including The Daily News, that the Laureans hosted a bonfire party on Dec. 24, Christmas Day and New Year's Eve.

http://www.jdnews.com/articles/laurean_54597___article.html/lauterbach_most.html

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by strick10


Just asked my 20 something daughter whom has been married for 3 years. She has 3 comforters for the master and 2 for the grandbaby. Says they're too expensive to buy them all the time. She thinks I've lost my mind asking her that. [/*]

LOL Then she is probably ahead of most 20 something year olds.
The ones I know may have one extra or only have just the one for each bed.

imoo

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by JanDoe


fire retardant?
I know race-car drivers wear a certain type of overall that is
fire retardant...but if the fire is able to get inside the overall
it burns from the inside.. [/*]

that is certainly possible...

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


According to the neighbors, FWIW, there were several bonfires over at the Laureans during the time frame. [/*]

I thought I had read that......was it Wanda and husband?

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


And yet the comforter remains somewhat intact? [/*]

The comforter most likely was flame retardant, as most bed linens are supposed to be now.

JMO

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


You read my mind Nuttin. That is exactly the first thing that came to my mind when I saw the diagram.

imoo [/*]
How do I see the diagram GB?

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


If we believe what CAL wrote in his 'novellas' one could have the perception that her throat was really slashed, not like the superficial wound that was found during autopsy.

And yes more to add to the doesn't not add up file, that's growing larger by leaps and bounds.

JMO [/*]

Yep and yep.:D

imo

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny


1. Initially when Maria was put in the pit and covered with the wood fence slats and burned.

2. Christmas Eve

3. Christmas Day

4. NY Eve

Trace Gallagher touring the crime scene and in that video, he says ... they believe that he dug down about 2-1/2 or 3 feet and put Lauterbach's body there, and then used the sections of the fence on top of her and lit them on fire. The Medical Examiner says that because it was so charred he believes the fire burned very hot and for a very long time. Then, when there was nothing but ash, he put more mud and more dirt put on top. Police believe this took several hours if not a couple of days. (@50 seconds in the video countdown)

http://tinyurl.com/2kx2d2


Several of Laurean's neighbors are telling media outlets, including The Daily News, that the Laureans hosted a bonfire party on Dec. 24, Christmas Day and New Year's Eve.

http://www.jdnews.com/articles/laurean_54597___article.html/lauterbach_most.html [/*]

Thanks, Lynn!

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by IvySterling

How do I see the diagram GB? [/*]

The link is here sweetie.

Look for the link by Nuttin in the link thread.

It is sort of at the end of the report.

imoo

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


LOL Then she is probably ahead of most 20 something year olds.
The ones I know may have one extra or only have just the one for each bed.

imoo [/*]

Yup, I agree.. I know I have donated several sets of comforters, sheets, etc, etc, to my 20-something tenants because they had basically nothing.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


The comforter most likely was flame retardant, as most bed linens are supposed to be now.

JMO [/*]

Could very well be...

[strick10]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


LOL Then she is probably ahead of most 20 something year olds.
The ones I know may have one extra or only have just the one for each bed.

imoo [/*]

So right you are. One of those was a gift from us so that would make 2 she purchased on her own.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


Yup, I agree.. I know I have donated several sets of comforters, sheets, etc, etc, to my 20-something tenants because they had basically nothing. [/*]

LOL I can remember those days, Now I have too many and they take up way too much storage space.

imoo

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


Could be.. but why would the rest of her clothing (bra, shirt, etc) be found on top of her body? [/*]

several fires would provide coals that fall to the bottom and can
remain hot for days....

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by IvySterling

How do I see the diagram GB? [/*]

Ivy it's here: http://www.jdnews.com/attachments/jxqt6p-lauterbachautopsy1.pdf

Pages 4 through 7

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by JanDoe


I thought I had read that......was it Wanda and husband? [/*]

um.. dunno.. Lynn?? lol, TIA

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


The comforter most likely was flame retardant, as most bed linens are supposed to be now.

JMO [/*]

<goes to check bedding labels>

Ooops, <removes the Do Not Remove tag>

Seriously, I see what you're saying but I'm not understanding burn rates of jeans/pants, panties (cotton or nylon), sports bra (cotton or polyester), and knit tops (jersey? That stuff burns like crazy. You can't be around somebody that smokes cause just one ash will ruin it). How can it be so hot to burn panties and jeans, yet only melt a plastic bag with a baby shirt in it where the size label is still visible?

I know it's late....maybe I'll go ask DH if he's up for an experiment.....

:D

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


The link is here sweetie.

Look for the link by Nuttin in the link thread.

It is sort of at the end of the report.

imoo [/*]
Thank you GB, will go there now!

ETA: Oh for GS, I had that doc. downloaded to my puter and never even read/viewed all of it.

I'm an idiot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


LOL I can remember those days, Now I have too many and they take up way too much storage space.

imoo [/*]

But aren't they nice to have on those cold winter nights? I know I wrap up like I'm in an igloo. :tongue:

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


<goes to check bedding labels>

Ooops, <removes the Do Not Remove tag>

Seriously, I see what you're saying but I'm not understanding burn rates of jeans/pants, panties (cotton or nylon), sports bra (cotton or polyester), and knit tops (jersey? That stuff burns like crazy. You can't be around somebody that smokes cause just one ash will ruin it). How can it be so hot to burn panties and jeans, yet only melt a plastic bag with a baby shirt in it where the size label is still visible?

I know it's late....maybe I'll go ask DH if he's up for an experiment.....

:D [/*]

OMG.. you removed the "Do not remove" tag??????

[Maka]

Shows a fire retardant treated comforter and non-treated comforter after burning one minute (sic)

http://www.bhfti.ca.gov/industry/burn_comparison.pdf

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


<goes to check bedding labels>

Ooops, <removes the Do Not Remove tag>

Seriously, I see what you're saying but I'm not understanding burn rates of jeans/pants, panties (cotton or nylon), sports bra (cotton or polyester), and knit tops (jersey? That stuff burns like crazy. You can't be around somebody that smokes cause just one ash will ruin it). How can it be so hot to burn panties and jeans, yet only melt a plastic bag with a baby shirt in it where the size label is still visible?

I know it's late....maybe I'll go ask DH if he's up for an experiment.....

:D [/*]

the baby clothes etc...could have been thrown in during the second or third burn.....

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


<goes to check bedding labels>

Ooops, <removes the Do Not Remove tag>

Seriously, I see what you're saying but I'm not understanding burn rates of jeans/pants, panties (cotton or nylon), sports bra (cotton or polyester), and knit tops (jersey? That stuff burns like crazy. You can't be around somebody that smokes cause just one ash will ruin it). How can it be so hot to burn panties and jeans, yet only melt a plastic bag with a baby shirt in it where the size label is still visible?

I know it's late....maybe I'll go ask DH if he's up for an experiment.....

:D [/*]

:eek: Just make sure DH isn't inside the comforter (or rug either!) as I do not want to read the headlines that say: Cryme's experiment goes bust, kills DH, video at 11 :eek:

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Jas.S
Burning rates of the clothes don't seem to be very important here as the clothes the ME found were on top of her body and not on her body. [/*]

Agreed...

(how about that, Jas... we finally agreed on something.. :) )

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


OMG.. you removed the "Do not remove" tag?????? [/*]

I know, chit...now I'm goin' to prison.....I'm gonna try and tape it back so nobody will notice.

:eek:

[hinman]

Originally posted by Jas.S


That's how I read it at first and posted it here.

And you could be right, but I don't think so.

Because of the horrific amount of decomposition, I would think they did NOT wrap it in a sheet, and just put it in the body bag.

http://carnegieinstitute.net/_wsn/page18.html

ASPECTS OF AN AUTOPSY
1. Identification of the body: Most identifications of a deceased body are routine with family members or friends making an identification. Unfortunately, on occasion identification requires special assessment.

The deceased body must be carefully handled by all involved and not moved until the proper field evaluations are completed so that crime scene evidence is not lost. The body should not be moved any more than necessary during the examination at the crime scene.

In traumatic death, the victim’s hands must be properly covered with paper bags to protect any trace evidence, .and the body must be carefully wrapped in clean sheets or placed into a clean body bag. In this way, trace evidence is not cross-contaminated. At the morgue, crime lab technicians will carefully transport the sheets or body bag to the crime lab to preserve trace evidence such as fibers, hair, dirt, paint chips, glass, or other materials [/*]

I remember seeing pics of them removing her body it was very disturbing for me and there was a white sheet over her body. You could see under the top of the sheet and see her charred body.

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


um.. dunno.. Lynn?? lol, TIA [/*]

From the link posted just above a few posts, it says several neighbors, but when Richard Alander was interviewed, he was one of the 'several neighbors' that specify those dates, especially the one about the slats being removed early on. JMO

At @ 1:20 in the video interview of Richard Alander:

Kim Gebbia, WECT Reporter: “About 2 weeks ago, the same time Lauterbach vanished,, he saw Laurean specifically take down a chunk of his wooden fence and set it on fire”.

Richard Alander: “Well, there were fence panels here and the whole year and half that we’ve been livng here, they never burned nothing ever in their back yard, and now there’s a burn pile in the middle of the yard”.

http://tinyurl.com/yutzoy

[BarbraAllen]

Originally posted by hinman
The autopsy says
The decedent is received face down in a body bag. She has been wrapped in a sheet.
The sheet is removed to reveal fragments of charred clothing on top of a charred and decomposed body. The clothing
consist of a sports bra, medium size, and a green knit shirt.

So could the clothes been charred and feel off. [/*]

I've been wondering about the clothes & that explanation makes sense, hinman. (If it is possible to make sense in this case.)

I have a question and I apologise if this has already been asked and answered. I have not yet read all the pages.

But about the body being received face down: would that for sure be the position in which she was found? Thank you to anyone who can answer.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by JanDoe


the baby clothes etc...could have been thrown in during the second or third burn..... [/*]

Wasn't everything wrapped in the comforter?

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


OMG.. you removed the "Do not remove" tag?????? [/*]

Somebody is on their way to Cryme's house right now for removing the tag!

Cryme---go wrap yourself up in a rug, QUICKLY. :D

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


I know, chit...now I'm goin' to prison.....I'm gonna try and tape it back so nobody will notice.

:eek: [/*]

(I won't tell a soul, I promise)

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by hinman


I remember seeing pics of them removing her body it was very disturbing for me and there was a white sheet over her body. You could see under the top of the sheet and see her charred body. [/*]

Yeah, I agree, Hinman.. some of the video clips blurred out her head, but some didn't.. very disturbing.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by BarbraAllen


I've been wondering about the clothes & that explanation makes sense, hinman. (If it is possible to make sense in this case.)

I have a question and I apologise if this has already been asked and answered. I have not yet read all the pages.

But about the body being received face down: would that for sure be the position in which she was found? Thank you to anyone who can answer. [/*]

IIRC, SB or DA Hudson (or someone with LE) made the comment that when Maria's body was found, it was found with her face towards the ground.

Lynn, can you find that link? TIA

[hinman]

If this has been addressed just fly on by but didn't the autopsy say that her female parts were burned away?

If so wouldn't that mean her underwear were also burned away.

[strick10]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Somebody is on their way to Cryme's house right now for removing the tag!

Cryme---go wrap yourself up in a rug, QUICKLY. :D [/*]

:lol:

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny


From the link posted just above a few posts, it says several neighbors, but when Richard Alander was interviewed, he was one of the 'several neighbors' that specify those dates, especially the one about the slats being removed early on. JMO

At @ 1:20 in the video interview of Richard Alander:

Kim Gebbia, WECT Reporter: “About 2 weeks ago, the same time Lauterbach vanished,, he saw Laurean specifically take down a chunk of his wooden fence and set it on fire”.

Richard Alander: “Well, there were fence panels here and the whole year and half that we’ve been livng here, they never burned nothing ever in their back yard, and now there’s a burn pile in the middle of the yard”.

http://tinyurl.com/yutzoy [/*]

Thanks, Lynn! (you know I can't watch video here at home so I had no idea you had just posted that... )

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


I know, chit...now I'm goin' to prison.....I'm gonna try and tape it back so nobody will notice.

:eek: [/*]

:lol:

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


Yeah, I agree, Hinman.. some of the video clips blurred out her head, but some didn't.. very disturbing. [/*]

I vividly remember watching the unblurred version over on brightcove.com just before AMW profiled this case.

[strick10]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


Yeah, I agree, Hinman.. some of the video clips blurred out her head, but some didn't.. very disturbing. [/*]

That was her head? I couldn't make out what was what. OMGosh.

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


Wasn't everything wrapped in the comforter? [/*]

I don't see the report stating that. It does say that baby clothes
are bagged and kept for volative anaylsis....found inside the body
bag

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Somebody is on their way to Cryme's house right now for removing the tag!

Cryme---go wrap yourself up in a rug, QUICKLY. :D [/*]

:D

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Jas.S


C'mon, we have agreed SEVERAL times today!

But, how about that?! :) [/*]

Yes, we have agreed a few times today... :) Miracles do happen!

[hinman]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


I vividly remember watching the unblurred version over on brightcove.com just before AMW profiled this case. [/*]So do you think that could be the white sheet? I don't thinkt hat sheet had been buried though it looked pretty white and I would think a white sheet that had been in a fire pit would not be white anymore.

[Janz]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


I vividly remember watching the unblurred version over on brightcove.com just before AMW profiled this case. [/*]

I will never forget that image. Horrible!

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


Wasn't everything wrapped in the comforter? [/*]

I think so, Cryme...

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by hinman
If this has been addressed just fly on by but didn't the autopsy say that her female parts were burned away?

If so wouldn't that mean her underwear were also burned away. [/*]

The report says:

The organs of the pelvis are not recognizable.

The uterus is not specifically identified.

JMO

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


IIRC, SB or DA Hudson (or someone with LE) made the comment that when Maria's body was found, it was found with her face towards the ground.

Lynn, can you find that link? TIA [/*]

They always try to bring the bodies in .............in the position they were found or as close as they can get it so they don't have to turn the body over disturbing it even more.

imoo

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by hinman
If this has been addressed just fly on by but didn't the autopsy say that her female parts were burned away?

If so wouldn't that mean her underwear were also burned away. [/*]

makes sense, Hinman...

But apparently the rest of her clothing (bra, shirt, etc) were found on top of her body.. which I read as different from ON her body.

JMO

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by hinman
So do you think that could be the white sheet? I don't thinkt hat sheet had been buried though it looked pretty white and I would think a white sheet that had been in a fire pit would not be white anymore. [/*]

That could have been the very sheet. It seems as though, at the time, I thought why would a body bag being flapping in the wind and plus remember it had been raining earlier that day too.

jmo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


The report says:

The organs of the pelvis are not recognizable.

The uterus is not specifically identified.

JMO [/*]

I think what hindered them too in the autopsy she was in full blown decomposition also along with the charring.

imoo

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by strick10


That was her head? I couldn't make out what was what. OMGosh. [/*]

No idea, really.. but that was my best guess that it was her head...

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by hinman
So do you think that could be the white sheet? I don't thinkt hat sheet had been buried though it looked pretty white and I would think a white sheet that had been in a fire pit would not be white anymore. [/*]

no, lol, you are right.. that sheet would not be white if it was buried.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


They always try to bring the bodies in .............in the position they were found or as close as they can get it so they don't have to turn the body over disturbing it even more.

imoo [/*]

Exactly. They certainly do not want to disturb anything before the body gets to the ME's office. That would mess a lot of the forensics.

JMO

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


I vividly remember watching the unblurred version over on brightcove.com just before AMW profiled this case. [/*]

Me too........I saw it clearly.

imo

[hinman]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


makes sense, Hinman...

But apparently the rest of her clothing (bra, shirt, etc) were found on top of her body.. which I read as different from ON her body.

JMO [/*]I know I am just trying to make sense of it all. Trying to figure out why her clothes were on top of her but not her pants and panties so were in the heck did they go.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Jas.S


No, hinman, because it was the uterus that was burned away.

Not the genetalia or anything external on her body:


INTERNAL EXAMINATION
Body Cavities
The body cavities contain decomposition fluid admixed with thick paste. The organs are in a state of advanced
decomposition. In addition, there is charring. The organs of the pelvis are not recognizable. [/*]

Not to be graphic, but WTH was the thick paste?

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Exactly. They certainly do not want to disturb anything before the body gets to the ME's office. That would mess a lot of the forensics.

JMO [/*]

Plus Maria's body was in a very fragile state. I think they took painstaking care to see this done.

imoo

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Jas.S


Indeed!

Who knows, about other things we might agree 99% of the time! [/*]

Now I think you are reaching... :D

(just kidding.. sorta)

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


Not to be graphic, but WTH was the thick paste? [/*]

Some of the body will turn to what looks like raw fat......and it can be thick and dark.

imoo

[hinman]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


No idea, really.. but that was my best guess that it was her head... [/*]I thought it was her head to but just wasn't going to put that.

I can see the image in my mind now.

[Janz]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Plus Maria's body was in a very fragile state. I think they took painstaking care to see this done.

imoo [/*]

Exactly, and the remains were in advanced decomposition along with charring.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by Jas.S


They don't put in the sheet or covering of the crime scene in the body bag, though. [/*]

But it appears they did in this case since there's no mention of the sheet showing any signs of charring and/or burning.

And this is what the report states: The decedent is received face down in a body bag.

She has been wrapped in a sheet. The sheet is removed to reveal fragments of charred clothing on top of a charred and decomposed body. The clothing consist of a sports bra, medium size, and a green knit shirt. This clothing is sealed in nylon bags for accelerant analysis. The body is also wrapped in a partially charred comforter. It, too, is preserved in a nylon bag. Along with the clothing, there is a melted plastic bag that contains an item of baby clothing. There is a label "Size 0-3 months."

There's no mention of the sheet being included to be tested for accelerants.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by hinman
I know I am just trying to make sense of it all. Trying to figure out why her clothes were on top of her but not her pants and panties so were in the heck did they go. [/*]

that is the 64,000 dollar question...

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by Jas.S


Back to thinking that the sheet was not burned and put on body prior to transport.

Because the sheet is not bagged and analysed for accelerant.

from the report:

The decedent is received face down in a body bag. She has been wrapped in a sheet.
The sheet is removed to reveal fragments of charred clothing on top of a charred and decomposed body. The clothing
consist of a sports bra, medium size, and a green knit shirt. This clothing is sealed in nylon bags for accelerant analysis.
The body is also wrapped in a partially charred comforter. It, too, is preserved in a nylon bag. Along with the clothing,
there is a melted plastic bag that contains an item of baby clothing. There is a label "Size 0-3 months." also [/*]

Dang we posted nearly the same identical thing!

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by BarbraAllen


I've been wondering about the clothes & that explanation makes sense, hinman. (If it is possible to make sense in this case.)

I have a question and I apologise if this has already been asked and answered. I have not yet read all the pages.

But about the body being received face down: would that for sure be the position in which she was found? Thank you to anyone who can answer. [/*]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It appeared that the body of the adult was laying over on the side, with the face down in the bottom of the pit. The fetus was in the abdominal area of that adult. That little hand, the way those fingers were turned, it had been burned off the arm. That is bizarre, tragic. It`s disgusting.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0801/14/ng.01.html

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Some of the body will turn to what looks like raw fat......and it can be thick and dark.

imoo [/*]

Could be, GB....

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by Jas.S


That is a puzzling thing to me.

Where are they? [/*]

That in itself is a great question!

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Jas.S


That is a puzzling thing to me.

Where are they? [/*]

Well........



dare I say, some sick people save things?

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It appeared that the body of the adult was laying over on the side, with the face down in the bottom of the pit. The fetus was in the abdominal area of that adult. That little hand, the way those fingers were turned, it had been burned off the arm. That is bizarre, tragic. It`s disgusting.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0801/14/ng.01.html [/*]

I knew you'd come through Lynn!! TYVM again. You are definitely the LINK QUEEN!

And from the words that are in the above transcript, the unidentified male is one Sheriff Ed Brown, himself.

I'll never forget how his eyes welled up and as I told him the other day, I was doing his share and my share of crying.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by hinman
I know I am just trying to make sense of it all. Trying to figure out why her clothes were on top of her but not her pants and panties so were in the heck did they go. [/*]

In the trash with her glasses?

[hinman]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


In the trash with her glasses? [/*]but why through them in the trash instead of burning them with the rest of her clothes.

[BarbraAllen]

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny


snip


Several of Laurean's neighbors are telling media outlets, including The Daily News, that the Laureans hosted a bonfire party on Dec. 24, Christmas Day and New Year's Eve.

http://www.jdnews.com/articles/laurean_54597___article.html/lauterbach_most.html [/*]

This just occurred to me. Christmas Eve, Christmas Day. The Christmas tree.
Santa Claus and little Abrianna.

Doesn't Christina have only the one sister, who also lives in Jacksonville?

Where were the grandparents,(Christina's folks)? it makes me wonder why they didn't spend Christmas in NC with their children and grandchild.
Or visit any during this period of time? (If they have I have not heard about it.)

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


In the trash with her glasses? [/*]

Over at the landfill with the rug? :eek:

I would love to know where her glasses are too!

[strick10]

:seeya:

Night all. Been a great night. Can't wait to read the rest of y'alls posts tomorrow. Getting up too early this a.m. was not to my advantage. Happy posting!!!

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


Well........



dare I say, some sick people save things? [/*]

Could that be some of the evidence found in CAL's truck? <just speculation now>

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by hinman
but why through them in the trash instead of burning them with the rest of her clothes. [/*]

Well, if my theory #1733 is correct, Christina is the killer and didn't stop to try and find all of the clothing - only threw in what was clearly visible to her at the time. Anything else would be discarded in the trash 'cause why would they risk digging up the "grave" again just to throw something else in?

[KKKKKKatie]

Originally posted by Maka
Shows a fire retardant treated comforter and non-treated comforter after burning one minute (sic)

http://www.bhfti.ca.gov/industry/burn_comparison.pdf [/*]

We don't mess around with fire in Ca!

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by strick10
:seeya:

Night all. Been a great night. Can't wait to read the rest of y'alls posts tomorrow. Getting up too early this a.m. was not to my advantage. Happy posting!!! [/*]


:seeya:

[crymeariver2006]

DH was giving me the "stink eye" when I went plundering around for some matches.

Holding off on the experiment for now.

:D

[BarbraAllen]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


IIRC, SB or DA Hudson (or someone with LE) made the comment that when Maria's body was found, it was found with her face towards the ground.

Lynn, can you find that link? TIA [/*]

I believe I remember that too, now that you mention it.

So it probably is practice to leave the body in the position in which it is found?

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by strick10
:seeya:

Night all. Been a great night. Can't wait to read the rest of y'alls posts tomorrow. Getting up too early this a.m. was not to my advantage. Happy posting!!! [/*]

Night strick, rest good please! :seeya:

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Plus Maria's body was in a very fragile state. I think they took painstaking care to see this done.

imoo [/*]
Yes, and they were being very careful lifting her out.
http://i30.tinypic.com/2mhfred.jpg

[JanDoe]

Maria's body was cooked.

ME couldn't clearly make out many of Maria's organs.
Gravity pulls down and the coals burned underneath.
The top of her body would have been more preserved....imo

[hinman]

Originally posted by strick10
:seeya:

Night all. Been a great night. Can't wait to read the rest of y'alls posts tomorrow. Getting up too early this a.m. was not to my advantage. Happy posting!!! [/*]Get some rest so we can discuss tomorrow.:seeya:

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by BarbraAllen


I believe I remember that too, now that you mention it.

So it probably is practice to leave the body in the position in which it is found? [/*]

That would be my thought. To not disturb the body no more than possible.

[IvySterling]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by strick10


Night all. Been a great night. Can't wait to read the rest of y'alls posts tomorrow. Getting up too early this a.m. was not to my advantage. Happy posting!!! [/*]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nite strick!

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006
DH was giving me the "stink eye" when I went plundering around for some matches.

Holding off on the experiment for now.

:D [/*]

prolly better to do while he sleeps anyway...;)

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by IvySterling

Yes, and they were being very careful lifting her out.
http://i30.tinypic.com/2mhfred.jpg [/*]

When you magnify the pic, what is that between the fellow with the lite blue shirt and the fellow in the dark brown jacket (with his back to you)? Is that what I think it is?

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by BarbraAllen


This just occurred to me. Christmas Eve, Christmas Day. The Christmas tree.
Santa Claus and little Abrianna.

Doesn't Christina have only the one sister, who also lives in Jacksonville?

Where were the grandparents,(Christina's folks)? it makes me wonder why they didn't spend Christmas in NC with their children and grandchild.
Or visit any during this period of time? (If they have I have not heard about it.) [/*]

good questions.. i don't think there is anything out there about this...

[BarbraAllen]

Originally posted by Jas.S


I believe so, Barbara, but I cannot link to that or prove it.

But I do believe so.

Because they do not want to disturb any evidence that might be on top. [/*]

Yes, thank you, it does make sense in terms of forensics.

I too saw the videos when they removed the bodies and a couple of times the sheet was shown not all the way around her. It's even more awful to think about now that we know she was face down, those images are coming back into my mind and that's probably true for others here too who saw those videos.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Could that be some of the evidence found in CAL's truck? <just speculation now> [/*]

hmmm... could be...

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


When you magnify the pic, what is that between the fellow with the lite blue shirt and the fellow in the dark brown jacket (with his back to you)? Is that what I think it is? [/*]
Looks like the abdomen area/intestines:shrug:

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


Well, if my theory #1733 is correct, Christina is the killer and didn't stop to try and find all of the clothing - only threw in what was clearly visible to her at the time. Anything else would be discarded in the trash 'cause why would they risk digging up the "grave" again just to throw something else in? [/*]

lawdy... theory #1733... you have me beat on number of theories, Cryme... :)

[IvySterling]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by BarbraAllen


This just occurred to me. Christmas Eve, Christmas Day. The Christmas tree.
Santa Claus and little Abrianna.

Doesn't Christina have only the one sister, who also lives in Jacksonville?

Where were the grandparents,(Christina's folks)? it makes me wonder why they didn't spend Christmas in NC with their children and grandchild.
Or visit any during this period of time? (If they have I have not heard about it.) [/*]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't find that unusual, I didn't go visit my kids either during the holidays during their Military years. I can still remember her calling me long distance to ask how to cook a turkey.

[baywench]

Originally posted by old_lady


CL is the one indicted and running. Christina is not indicted or charged. Until she is charged, I will not speculate she is a killer. It sure appears she will not be charged either.

jmoo [/*]

I think she will be charged. I just find it so hard to believe she is deaf, dumb and blind. Simpler to believe she is involved...makes better sense IMO

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by baywench


I think she will be charged. I just find it so hard to believe she is deaf, dumb and blind. Simpler to believe she is involved...makes better sense IMO [/*]

Yes indeed, please see my signature line. I don't believe for one minute she didn't miss a comforter. :rolleyes:

jmo

[marinewife5]

FWIW, ML may have thought she was in labor (water broke, contractions/braxton-hicks) and that's why she had no pants or panties on at CL's house. She is young and maybe thought she needed the outfit immediately. I did't get a car seat for my daughter until the day before we took her home, so I can understand her not having one yet. Either CL panicked or CSL came home to find her lying on a comforter ready to have a baby. jmo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by JanDoe
Maria's body was cooked.

ME couldn't clearly make out many of Maria's organs.
Gravity pulls down and the coals burned underneath.
The top of her body would have been more preserved....imo [/*]

I have never heard that there were coals used.

Captain Sutherland said they had "bonfires." Bonfires are just fires made with wood of some type like the old fencing.

Heat rises. So once the upper level ground was heated yes it would heat the cavity right below it and then finally dissipate out of the top soil.

I think one of the major factors also she was in major decomposition and that causes the body to break down including the organs.

imoo

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by marinewife5
FWIW, ML may have thought she was in labor (water broke, contractions/braxton-hicks) and that's why she had no pants or panties on at CL's house. She is young and maybe thought she needed the outfit immediately. I did't get a car seat for my daughter until the day before we took her home, so I can understand her not having one yet. Either CL panicked or CSL came home to find her lying on a comforter ready to have a baby. jmo [/*]

interesting theory.. will have to add that to my list of possibilities as to why she was not clothed.

So what do you think happened then?

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


interesting theory.. will have to add that to my list of possibilities as to why she was not clothed.

So what do you think happened then? [/*]

I think reality set in for one of the laureans, and there was one sure way to stop that baby from entering their lives, and to stop maria from continuing to affect their lives. And I would miss a comforter if it were missing. i cant see passing it and not once wondering why it was covered in blood and on the floor (if that is indeed how it happened) jmo

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by old_lady


I don't remember anything about coals.:confused: [/*]

where there is fire in a pit there are coals.....

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by baywench


I think she will be charged. I just find it so hard to believe she is deaf, dumb and blind. Simpler to believe she is involved...makes better sense IMO [/*]

Absolutely and we don't know what is happening behind the scenes either. They may be going to offer her a plea deal to be the key cooperating witness in this case. They may be waiting to get Laurean back hoping that he talks even if it is with his lawyers present.

Personally I still feel all of this crime points to her as much as it does to him and imo she certainly had as much motive to do this as he did, maybe even more so especially if she caught them red handed there together.

No one will ever convince me anyone could be this totally stupid and blind to everything he would have had to do to complete and cover up this crime.

It wouldn't surprise me if she helped him pull Maria out to the grave in the comforter.

Now we have the superficial cut to Maria's neck that tends to make me think that is something a woman would do instead of a man and I have always thought using a bludgeoning weapon seems more like what she would have done. IMO he could have easily strangled Maria and not had all the blood bath.

imoo

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I have never heard that there were coals used.

Captain Sutherland said they had "bonfires." Bonfires are just fires made with wood of some type like the old fencing.

Heat rises. So once the upper level ground was heated yes it would heat the cavity right below it and then finally dissipate out of the top soil.

I think one of the major factors also she was in major decomposition and that causes the body to break down including the organs.

imoo [/*]

I have made many fires in a pit outside and coals remain for sometime afterward.....that is fact

[JanDoe]

coals come from the wood that was used to burn.....

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by JanDoe


I have made many fires in a pit outside and coals remain for sometime afterward.....that is fact [/*]

I have never heard of a regular bonfire using coals.......just wood.

imoo

[gaelicpeas]

For some reason, I feel like I need to state this...

On a personal level, this case just really gets me... I feel such emotion for ML, in particular, for reasons that are personal to me. That, and my understanding of the early scenario with respect to concern over her being missing drew me to this case.

I also feel such deep emotion for her family. for their loss, and for their battle with the media.. .whether warranted or not, it is still an emotional battle for them.

However, on a cognitive level, as someone who occasionally follows the In Session boards, this is a fascinating mystery. So I hope I don't come across as being crass with regards to multiple theories, etc.

JMO, and just wanted to state that...

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by JanDoe
coals come from the wood that was used to burn..... [/*]

:confused:

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I have never heard of a regular bonfire using coals.......just wood.

imoo [/*]

GB...wood makes its own coals

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by JanDoe


GB...wood makes its own coals [/*]

we have had several bonfires...the bottom of the pit is always burning embers (coals) and stays hot for a day or two afterward. jmo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by JanDoe
coals come from the wood that was used to burn..... [/*]

Oh you mean the embers?

I doubt Christina would have let him keep them burning through the night. Most people extinguish them to make sure the embers don't spark out of the pit and cause a fire.

imoo

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


:confused: [/*]

smoky the bear says extinguish your fire.....that means the coals
that the wind can pick up the embers and cause forest fires....

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by JanDoe


smoky the bear says extinguish your fire.....that means the coals
that the wind can pick up the embers and cause forest fires.... [/*]

now i have to go on the run with cryme and her sack of ripped tags:o

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by JanDoe


GB...wood makes its own coals [/*]

LOL How well I know.

I thought you meant like charcoal or something.

imoo

[bkwits]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
For some reason, I feel like I need to state this...

On a personall level, this case just really gets me... I feel such emotion for ML, in particular, for reasons that are personal to me. That, and my understanding of the early scenario with respect to concern over her being missing drew me to this case.

I also feel such deep emotion for her family. for their loss, and for their battle with the media.. .whether warranted or not, it is still an emotional battle for them.

However, on a cognitive level, as someone who occasionally follows the In Session boards, this is a fascinating mystery. So I hope I don't come across as being crass with regards to multiple theories, etc.

JMO, and just wanted to state that...
[/*]




I understand what you're saying and thank you for saying it.

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Oh you mean the embers?

I doubt Christina would have let him keep them burning through the night. Most people extinguish them to make sure the embers don't spark out of the pit and cause a fire.

imoo [/*]


coals can be covered with dirt and continue to burn.....it is when
the coals are left uncovered that they pose a danger of the out
of control fire.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by marinewife5


we have had several bonfires...the bottom of the pit is always burning embers (coals) and stays hot for a day or two afterward. jmo [/*]

yup.. just like you don't won't to throw the supposedly dead ashes in your fireplace out into the yard unless they are several days old.. I had some friends who set their yard on fire doing that!

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by marinewife5


now i have to go on the run with cryme and her sack of ripped tags:o [/*]

don't slip on that rug...

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by bkwits





I understand what you're saying and thank you for saying it. [/*]

ditto, and if any of us were interested in one theory, and one theory alone, it would be silly to be here with all of the different views we all have

[hinman]

So I am a little confused, I know what else is knew. Did CL burn her body with the wood from the fence and then through dirt on top of it?

[JanDoe]

ok now.....the side of the body that was deeper in the pit would
have burned far more than the side that was out of the pit....

several days....several fires.....

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


yup.. just like you don't won't to throw the supposedly dead ashes in your fireplace out into the yard unless they are several days old.. I had some friends who set their yard on fire doing that! [/*]

if it reassures anyone, our pit is about 5 feet deep. and it is all dirt for about 10 feet surrounding the pit.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by bkwits





I understand what you're saying and thank you for saying it. [/*]

and thank you, bk, for your acknowledgment of this... I truly respect your opinions in this case.

[marinewife5]

Originally posted by hinman
So I am a little confused, I know what else is knew. Did CL burn her body with the wood from the fence and then through dirt on top of it? [/*]

thats what it seems like to me.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by JanDoe



coals can be covered with dirt and continue to burn.....it is when
the coals are left uncovered that they pose a danger of the out
of control fire. [/*]

I guess we are very careful bonfire burners. We always make sure there are no hot coals left in the pit at all before we go to bed that night. We are in a drought and must be very careful. I believe NC is in one too. My hubby always douses the fire with water to make sure it is completely out. I couldnt sleep a wink unless he did that. lol

imoo

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by hinman
So I am a little confused, I know what else is knew. Did CL burn her body with the wood from the fence and then through dirt on top of it? [/*]

that is what I am understanding from the autopsy report, Hinman... JMO, though.

[hinman]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
For some reason, I feel like I need to state this...

On a personal level, this case just really gets me... I feel such emotion for ML, in particular, for reasons that are personal to me. That, and my understanding of the early scenario with respect to concern over her being missing drew me to this case.

I also feel such deep emotion for her family. for their loss, and for their battle with the media.. .whether warranted or not, it is still an emotional battle for them.

However, on a cognitive level, as someone who occasionally follows the In Session boards, this is a fascinating mystery. So I hope I don't come across as being crass with regards to multiple theories, etc.

JMO, and just wanted to state that... [/*]You crass, I don't think so. I love reading your posts and I understand how you feel.

[hinman]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


that is what I am understanding from the autopsy report, Hinman... JMO, though. [/*]I just can not believe no one smelled that.