Friday ~ 03-14-08 ~ a.m.

[Kel65]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Either way it sounds like CAL will be spending A LOT behind bars, especially if he's found guilty by the State! Which if he's found guilty of murder, that's exactly where he belongs.

But wonder what happens if he's sentenced to LWOP by a civil court? When will he serve the sentence handed down by the court marital?

I do remember in Jeffrey MacDonald's case, after the State found him guilty of murdering his wife and children, he was quietly court martialed by the Army and then the NCMD board stripped him of his license to practice medicine. But since he committed murder on Federal Property (Ft. Bragg) he went straight to the Federal Hilton.

JMO


IAnd as to my 'net problems----after my experience with Time Warner between last night and today---I'm ALMOST bald! :eek: [/*]

When I lived in Jacksonville, Time Warner was on my speed dial and a regular at my house. I telecommute and it always seemed to go out when I was in a crunch. Then I would get the ol' we will send someone out the next day between such and such a time. We got to know the service tech who serviced our area (because he was at our house so much) and he did give us some special treatment. While I was impressed with that guy, I was often frustrated with Time Warner as a company.

Back On Topic

I doubt the military will even bother with sentencing him to jail time, if he is sentenced to LWOP by the State.

JMO

[donna]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


I think that's by mail Jas.

JMO [/*]

Oh, okay! Sorry.

This is an important report that will be admitted at trial. I just hope that someone here gets this report before the ME's office decides to stop sending it out. LE may not want this out there.

[donna]

Originally posted by Sami
Does anyone know what questions (#14 & #16) Maka is referring to, in her sig line?

Can't be the questions for RS - I just checked those and they don' relate to an autopsy, imo. [/*]

I was wondering also, Sami! Guess no one (including myself) has asked her!

[donna]

Originally posted by Jas.S
Yeah, Nuttin, I think so, too.

At any rate, I got an email response saying it was available and would be sent if I had a request in like within 30 seconds.

But nothing yet on the actual reports. [/*]

:shrug:

I did not even get a an email response like yours, Jas! I included all of my information asked for!

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


If Maria was moved and with her UVA when this happened, surely the UVA would had asked questions! Bruises and/or a black eye can't be hidden all that well either.

JMO [/*]

That is right Maria worked along side the UVA everyday and she would have no reason to disguise the bruises anyway,

imoo

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by Sami
Does anyone know what questions (#14 & #16) Maka is referring to, in her sig line?

Can't be the questions for RS - I just checked those and they don' relate to an autopsy, imo. [/*]

Maka had the #14 and #16 in her sig line before she added about the autopsy report.

Maka's sig line with the #14 & #16: My accurate & previously stated info confirmed: #14 & #16--

When I first saw the reference I went over to the questions and read what the responses to them were:

14) This is in reference to the shoe that was 'found' when Greta Van Sustern came to town. Was this shoe completely wet, slightly damp or completely dry? Remember it had rained a couple of days prior to Greta's arrival in Jacksonville. Did the SBI originally see this shoe and determined it had no relevance? Was this shoe a woman's or man's shoe and has it been determined who's shoe it is? The shoe is a male's. We know who it belongs to. I can't really discuss anything else about the shoe.

16) Sheriff Brown made a statement early on that both Maria's car and cell phone had been tampered with. If so, what kind of tampering was involved? The cell phone was found by a citizen. The citizen tried to find the owner by calling some people stored in the phone. We know that the vehicle was not located at the bus station the entire time from 12/14/07 to 1/7/08.

JMO

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


I put 12/14 OR 12/15 just to make sure. [/*]
I put 14-16 Dec. 2007 to cover all dates. I got this reply after submitting, BUT NOT IN AN EMAIL:

NC OCME Document Request home>

Thank you for submitting an electronic document requst. Your request will be processed overnight and the documents mailed on the next business day, if they are complete. Requests for incomplete documents will be held until they are completed.

[hinman]

Originally posted by IvySterling

I put 14-16 Dec. 2007 to cover all dates. I got this reply:

NC OCME Document Request home>

Thank you for submitting an electronic document requst. Your request will be processed overnight and the documents mailed on the next business day, if they are complete. Requests for incomplete documents will be held until they are completed. [/*]I got the same thing. I didnot get it in my email though it just showed up after I hit submit.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by IvySterling

I put 14-16 Dec. 2007 to cover all dates. I got this reply:

NC OCME Document Request home>

Thank you for submitting an electronic document requst. Your request will be processed overnight and the documents mailed on the next business day, if they are complete. Requests for incomplete documents will be held until they are completed. [/*]

I put in the 14th and 15th and got the same response Ivy.

[donna]

I have not seen this in any articles and also cannot find it in any transcripts, but I seem to remember that someone had said that Maria had almost been decapitated.

We will see if this is true or not. Does anyone else remember this?

[donna]

Originally posted by hinman
I got the same thing. I didnot get it in my email though it just showed up after I hit submit. [/*]

Me too, hinman!

[bkwits]

Originally posted by hinman
I got the same thing. I didnot get it in my email though it just showed up after I hit submit. [/*]

Same here. Bear in mind this is Fri. afternoon. They've prob gone home for the day. We won't get anything til next week. grrr.

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by Maka
I received the autopsy report and the toxicology report.


(SNIP)

what Maria was wrapped in, etc.

[/*]

It was Trace Gallagher's report that said he was told by the ME that Maria was 'wrapped in some sort of cloth and dragged to the pit'.

Trace Gallagher touring the crime scene and in that video, he says ... they believe that he dug down about 2-1/2 or 3 feet and put Lauterbach's body there, and then used the sections of the fence on top of her and lit them on fire. The Medical Examiner says that because it was so charred he believes the fire burned very hot and for a very long time. Then, when there was nothing but ash, he put more mud and more dirt put on top. Police believe this took several hours if not a couple of days. (@50 seconds in the video countdown)

http://tinyurl.com/2kx2d2

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


I put in the 14th and 15th and got the same response Ivy. [/*]
Now I'm wondering since we're requesting this on a Fri. if we'll have to wait for a response until Monday :shrug:

[donna]

Originally posted by Sami


I don't remember that, donna.

I'm just so disappointed that we won't be able to find out the Baby's father. :( [/*]

I am too, Sami. I still believe it is CAL, tho.

I did hear a reference to that on one of the talk shows that Maria had almost been decapitated, tho. Seems like it was a lawyer commenting.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


That is right Maria worked along side the UVA everyday and she would have no reason to disguise the bruises anyway,

imoo [/*]

That's why I say her UVA had to be aware of this happening and if the UVA was aware, wonder if she did in fact report this to NCIS and/or the unit commander?

And wasn't there a female acquaintance of Maria's (in the barracks, possibly a roommate) who said she was aware of the alleged assault, the keying and the punch?

jmo

[donna]

Originally posted by Jas.S


I first sent an email to the ME's office asking if I could get the reports and that got an answer, as I said, within 30 seconds, saying that I would if I had a request on file.

THEN I filled out the online request form. [/*]

Thanks, Jas! I had just filled out the form!

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


That's why I say her UVA had to be aware of this happening and if the UVA was aware, wonder if she did in fact report this to NCIS and/or the unit commander?

And wasn't there a female acquaintance of Maria's (in the barracks, possibly a roommate) who said she was aware of the alleged assault, the keying and the punch?

jmo [/*]

I remember one of her roommates said Maria told her about it.

imoo

[donna]

Originally posted by Sami


Well, if this is the County ME's report, maybe they couldn't determine much about the Baby, so they sent the bodies to the MC for further testing.

Or maybe they're STILL waiting for DNA results. . . . I am just so disappointed. I was sure we'd know about the paternity when the ME's report was finished. :( [/*]

Paternity determination for Gabriel will probably take a very long time due to his condition, but even moreso because of having to have CAL's DNA also. There will probably be legal channels to have to go through before CAL's DNA can be obtained either from the MC, or DNA from the house if there is any at the house.

Christina could let a DNA sample be taken from Abrianna and compared to Gabriel's. There again are BIG questions of whether or not Christina would allow that to happen. If she is SO cooperative, she may.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by Jas.S


No, this is the State of NC Medical Examiner's office. In Chapel Hill. [/*]

Correct. That's where Maria and Gabriel's bodies were sent after Dr. Charles Garrett did an initial examination (remember he's the one who said Maria was killed by a blow to her head).

JMO

I do know there was an article that stated Maria and Gabriel first went to OMH (Onslow Memorial Hospital) and then they were taken on to the ME's office in Chapel Hill.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by old_lady


I got a suicide report from Durham County and they don't email. Had to locate a scanner to put it up. jmoo [/*]

That didn't take long. :D

jmo

[caejde]

I didn't catch up yet but if anyone gets a copy of the autopsy report, could you PM it to me?

[donna]

Originally posted by Sami
[QUOTE]Originally posted by donna


Paternity determination for Gabriel will probably take a very long time due to his condition, QUOTE]

Yes, the Baby's body must have really been burned. :( [/*]

We need a crying icon here.

[BarbraAllen]

Originally posted by Jas.S


Yep.

The whole things sounds so preposterous.

And where was her family while all this was happening to their daughter, allegedly? :( [/*]

Difficult as it is, this is what I referred to in an earlier post. Yes, Maria (and Cesar) were young, but they were old enough to join the Marines. Maybe not adult enough, but certainly old enough.

At what point does a parent stop interceding? That is, when does the parent step back and allow the son or daughter to make his/her own mistakes, fight his/her own battles?

And there again we don't know everything that went on. How do we know Mary didn't tell Maria that she WAS coming down there, and that Maria persuaded her to stay put? Maybe the two of them discussed it all, maybe Mary calmed her down, maybe Maria decided she could handle these things on her own and told her mother this? Maybe Maria wanted to stay on track as a Marine and feared that her mother's presence would affect this (as it most likely would have, in my opinion.)

I don't think it's right to slam this family for their actions or supposed inactions when the whole story isn't known. This isn't a situation in which there was trouble at the middle school and Mom needed to go sort it out.

What would I have done had I been in Mary's place? Thankfully, I don't know and pray I never have to find out.

[bkwits]

OT

Heather Mills McCartney go $60 mil, plus child support. That oughta keep her in Starbucks for a long time.

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by caejde
I didn't catch up yet but if anyone gets a copy of the autopsy report, could you PM it to me? [/*]
Don't think anyone has a copy yet except maka, and she just teased us and left :D

[donna]

Originally posted by bkwits
OT

Heather Mills McCartney go $60 mil, plus child support. That oughta keep her in Starbucks for a long time. [/*]

:eek:

That is a lot of coffee, bkwits!

[bkwits]

Originally posted by BarbraAllen


Difficult as it is, this is what I referred to in an earlier post. Yes, Maria (and Cesar) were young, but they were old enough to join the Marines. Maybe not adult enough, but certainly old enough.

At what point does a parent stop interceding? That is, when does the parent step back and allow the son or daughter to make his/her own mistakes, fight his/her own battles?

And there again we don't know everything that went on. How do we know Mary didn't tell Maria that she WAS coming down there, and that Maria persuaded her to stay put? Maybe the two of them discussed it all, maybe Mary calmed her down, maybe Maria decided she could handle these things on her own and told her mother this? Maybe Maria wanted to stay on track as a Marine and feared that her mother's presence would affect this (as it most likely would have, in my opinion.)

I don't think it's right to slam this family for their actions or supposed inactions when the whole story isn't known. This isn't a situation in which there was trouble at the middle school and Mom needed to go sort it out.

What would I have done had I been in Mary's place? Thankfully, I don't know and pray I never have to find out. [/*]

I agee with you BA. This rest of this family has a life too. Mrs. L has four other children, a responsible job, a home and a husband to take care of. Like you have said, this was a young adult and the mc expects her to take care of her own problems. IMO

[nuttintodo]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by donna


Paternity determination for Gabriel will probably take a very long time due to his condition,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


donna, the NCME doesn't do paternity testing, nor does the State Bureau of Investigation (SBI). DNA samples would be obtained and would be sent out to another facility such as Labcorp, etc., who are capable of testing.

And in this case the Military Pathology folks have a sample and they are capable of determining paternity.

And it does take a while to get the results, unfortunately.

JMO

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by old_lady
Crymeariver,

We had posted yesterday about the house key and I was remembering that Durham had said the house key was not left behind by Maria. It is dubious as to the silver key impounded was Maria's house key.

Quote:
"At this point, we’ll discuss a few things that occurred December 14th that the command did not know until sometime later. For example, when Sgt Durham arrives home from work, he finds a note left for him by LCpl Lauterbach stating, “I could not take this Marine Corps life anymore. So I am going away. Sorry for the inconvenience. Maria.” Sgt Durham notices that some of her personal items are missing. She does not leave the house key behind."


http://www.jdnews.com/articles/lauterbach_54386___article.html/lcpl_cpl.html [/*]

The key was listed on the SW for Durham's house, right along with the "terms and conditions" document.

He may have found the key later, after the statement in the article.

I don't think LE just went in and picked up loose keys lying around, do you?

[bkwits]

Originally posted by donna


:eek:

That is a lot of coffee, bkwits! [/*]

AOL says 13.6 million cups of the special kind she likes. Gotta keep a girl going. :D

[caejde]

Originally posted by IvySterling

Don't think anyone has a copy yet except maka, and she just teased us and left :D [/*]

I know right! I was on the edge of my seat wanting to hear stuff.

[donna]

***respectfully snipped***

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BarbraAllen

At what point does a parent stop interceding? That is, when does the parent step back and allow the son or daughter to make his/her own mistakes, fight his/her own battles?

Very good post, BarbraAllen!

I can only speak for myself, but I would have left on the next thing smoking had I gotten a call from my daughter sobbing that she had been attacked!

I would have held her, cried with her, and also been infuriated with whomever had caused my daughter pain. I also would have told her that the decisions were hers to make, but that I would be in full support of her decisions. I would want my daughter to know (in person) that she was not alone.

Now I really cannot know what I would do if I found out that it had turned to murder. I would go ballistic but would also have been there asap. I might have wound up in jail myself because of the he** I would have raised!

[JanDoe]

FWIW..
just got off the phone with my dad (27 yr. Navy Officer) said
that both LE and MC dropped the ball on this one.

Both knew of the rape allegations and missing person's report when Sheriff showed up at the Base....either could have and
should have detained him.

[donna]

Originally posted by bkwits


AOL says 13.6 million cups of the special kind she likes. Gotta keep a girl going. :D [/*]

:D

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by Sami


We don't know about the charge or sworn statement, due to MC not feeling we have the right to know. Not even her family has been able to talk to anyone who dealt with Maria directly, about her rape allegation and subsequent 'slugging' charge.

But, IF I were going to make a false allegation about being hit to try to get Cesar in trouble or to cement my case of being raped, I would definitely include a bruise or a mark of some kind, regardless of how I had to acquire such mark.

And of course, the bruise or mark could have come from any sort of accident around the house or from falling, and then some here might be posting: I just can't wrap my head around that bruise coming from a slug in the face by her alleged rapist or an acquaintance of his. :rolleyes: [/*]

But if she was trying to get Cesar in trouble, why would she say specifically that it WASN'T him that hit her?

[bkwits]

Originally posted by JanDoe
FWIW..
just got off the phone with my dad (27 yr. Navy Officer) said
that both LE and MC dropped the ball on this one.

Both knew of the rape allegations and missing person's report when Sheriff showed up at the Base....either could have and
should have detained him. [/*]

THANK YOU

A sane voice speaks at last.

JMO

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by bkwits


THANK YOU

A sane voice speaks at last.

JMO [/*]

He also said that the Sheriff could have taken him at that time.

I wonder why they didn't?

[bkwits]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


But if she was trying to get Cesar in trouble, why would she say specifically that it WASN'T him that hit her? [/*]



Maybe, just maybe, she was being truthful.

[donna]

Originally posted by nuttintodo
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by donna


Paternity determination for Gabriel will probably take a very long time due to his condition,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


donna, the NCME doesn't do paternity testing, nor does the State Bureau of Investigation (SBI). DNA samples would be obtained and would be sent out to another facility such as Labcorp, etc., who are capable of testing.

And in this case the Military Pathology folks have a sample and they are capable of determining paternity.

And it does take a while to get the results, unfortunately.

JMO [/*]

Thank for your reply, nuttin! I am glad that Military Pathology people can do this. I guess I was thinking as in civillian DNA testing of sending DNA to a lab to make the determination.

:)

[Janz]

Originally posted by JanDoe
FWIW..
just got off the phone with my dad (27 yr. Navy Officer) said
that both LE and MC dropped the ball on this one.

Both knew of the rape allegations and missing person's report when Sheriff showed up at the Base....either could have and
should have detained him. [/*]


:beer: ( For your Dad )

[henry]

Originally posted by BarbraAllen


Difficult as it is, this is what I referred to in an earlier post. Yes, Maria (and Cesar) were young, but they were old enough to join the Marines. Maybe not adult enough, but certainly old enough.

At what point does a parent stop interceding? That is, when does the parent step back and allow the son or daughter to make his/her own mistakes, fight his/her own battles?

And there again we don't know everything that went on. How do we know Mary didn't tell Maria that she WAS coming down there, and that Maria persuaded her to stay put? Maybe the two of them discussed it all, maybe Mary calmed her down, maybe Maria decided she could handle these things on her own and told her mother this? Maybe Maria wanted to stay on track as a Marine and feared that her mother's presence would affect this (as it most likely would have, in my opinion.)

I don't think it's right to slam this family for their actions or supposed inactions when the whole story isn't known. This isn't a situation in which there was trouble at the middle school and Mom needed to go sort it out.

What would I have done had I been in Mary's place? Thankfully, I don't know and pray I never have to find out. [/*]

ita . . . i know what i think i'd do . . . but , as you said, we don't know. emotions are such a powerful force in influencing our actions/thought process - both positive and negative . . . IMO

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by Janz



:beer: ( For your Dad ) [/*]

I will certainly let him know your opinion!

[bkwits]

Originally posted by JanDoe


He also said that the Sheriff could have taken him at that time.

I wonder why they didn't? [/*]


Well, I sure wish somebody would have.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by BarbraAllen


Difficult as it is, this is what I referred to in an earlier post. Yes, Maria (and Cesar) were young, but they were old enough to join the Marines. Maybe not adult enough, but certainly old enough.

At what point does a parent stop interceding? That is, when does the parent step back and allow the son or daughter to make his/her own mistakes, fight his/her own battles?

And there again we don't know everything that went on. How do we know Mary didn't tell Maria that she WAS coming down there, and that Maria persuaded her to stay put? Maybe the two of them discussed it all, maybe Mary calmed her down, maybe Maria decided she could handle these things on her own and told her mother this? Maybe Maria wanted to stay on track as a Marine and feared that her mother's presence would affect this (as it most likely would have, in my opinion.)

I don't think it's right to slam this family for their actions or supposed inactions when the whole story isn't known. This isn't a situation in which there was trouble at the middle school and Mom needed to go sort it out.

What would I have done had I been in Mary's place? Thankfully, I don't know and pray I never have to find out. [/*]

I agree Barbra.

I'm a parent and I feel that a parent's job is never complete. We will always continue to be parent's no matter what but at some point we do step back in our roles and let our children 'get on' or experience life firsthand. We will always be there to catch them when they fall or have problems.

When I made my post about what I would have done if I were ever in the same situation as Mary, I prefaced my post with I am in NO WAY criticizing Mary's parenting skills and then went on to say what I would have done if this had been me.

Again I say, I AM IN NO WAY KNOCKING MARY'S PARENTING SKILLS, that's just something another person should never do as we've never walked a mile in their shoes.

Like you, I have never had to deal with a situation like this and I, too, pray I never will have to.

I can say without a doubt that if anything ever happened to my girls, hubby and/or my grands, they might as well go ahead and lay me out right beside them as I know it would kill me.

JMO FWIW

[donna]

Originally posted by bkwits



Well, I sure wish somebody would have. [/*]

Me, too, bkwits.
Look at how long it has been now, and no capture of this POS!

:flamemad:

[strick10]

Originally posted by caejde
I didn't catch up yet but if anyone gets a copy of the autopsy report, could you PM it to me? [/*]

It figures, I leave the board for a bit and something new comes in. Would someone be so kind as to pm to me as well?

[Ionmhainn]

Originally posted by donna


We need a crying icon here. [/*]

I've thought that more than once, donna. I want to know the results, but don't know if I really have the stomach for them. The vision in my mind's eye is bad enough. :(

[donna]

Originally posted by Sami


I was told, by SC LE, that Cesar could have been taken in and held for 24 hours without an arrest warrant, just for questioning.

He would have had the right to remain silent, but could still have been held while LE investigated to try to find out if he were in any way involved.

Just a simple talk to the neighbors might have given them probably cause for a warrant (or a glimpse through the broken fence into the pit area).

Thank your Dad for his opinion, JanDoe. :rose: [/*]

Then CAL should have been taken in and held for the 24 hours, then watched after that!
LE could have learned plenty from the neighbors - ITA.

[hinman]

Originally posted by strick10


It figures, I leave the board for a bit and something new comes in. Would someone be so kind as to pm to me as well? [/*]unfortunately none of us have it. We are all sitting here on our hands waiting.

[hinman]

Originally posted by Jas.S


Nobody else has it but Maka who just said she had it but did not share.

Which, btw, has totally ruined my day off. Said day off which I piddled away on taking care of the kitties we are fostering and reading and posting on this board. :( [/*]:( I know it was like someone slapped me.

[Regina.Lampert]

Originally posted by Sami


I was told, by SC LE, that Cesar could have been taken in and held for 24 hours without an arrest warrant, just for questioning.

He would have had the right to remain silent, but could still have been held while LE investigated to try to find out if he were in any way involved.

Just a simple talk to the neighbors might have given them probable cause for a warrant (or a glimpse through the broken fence into the pit area).

Thank your Dad for his opinion, JanDoe. :rose: [/*]

Absolutely! Is anyone friendly with Maka? She's got the autopsy report and we want it. It would be great if she could post it for us some way.

[BarbraAllen]

Originally posted by donna
***respectfully snipped***

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BarbraAllen

At what point does a parent stop interceding? That is, when does the parent step back and allow the son or daughter to make his/her own mistakes, fight his/her own battles?

Very good post, BarbraAllen!

I can only speak for myself, but I would have left on the next thing smoking had I gotten a call from my daughter sobbing that she had been attacked!

I would have held her, cried with her, and also been infuriated with whomever had caused my daughter pain. I also would have told her that the decisions were hers to make, but that I would be in full support of her decisions. I would want my daughter to know (in person) that she was not alone.

Now I really cannot know what I would do if I found out that it had turned to murder. I would go ballistic but would also have been there asap. I might have wound up in jail myself because of the he** I would have raised! [/*]

Thank you Donna. And I would never say never, either (as far as what I'd do or not do.)

I guess I was going from the tone of the conversations as I interpreted them from what Mary Lauterbach has said. It sounded like a fairly calm discussion, at least what I've heard. I remember her comments about telling Maria (paraphrased) that she should be sure of what she's saying, etc. I just didn't get the picture of an hysterical Maria on the other end of the phone.

But my heart breaks for Mary L. I would imagine she has second guessed her decisions countless times, don't all parents do this? It seems the world is full of the "if onlys."

[CANDYKISSES]

At what point are y'all claiming he could have been jailed for 24 hours? What evidence did they have to support holding him at that time?

TIA.

Maybe a review of the documentation is in order AGAIN, since I remember a few things being confirmed and the idea that she left a note letting people know she was leaving of her own accord.

I am in favor of alerts to locate women pregnant with a viable fetus who run off making rash decisions, but not so much on picking people up for no reason and holding them in jail.

So what did they have at that time where you think he should have and could have been locked up?

jmo:shrug:

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by Jas.S


Donna, he could not have been kept for 24 hrs like that. LE asked him to come and answer questions, which is all they could do. CL refused or changed appts or did not make them, as was his right. [/*]

I disagree.....they could have and should have detained him....
that would not be against his civil rights...

[donna]

Originally posted by Ionmhainn


I've thought that more than once, donna. I want to know the results, but don't know if I really have the stomach for them. The vision in my mind's eye is bad enough. :( [/*]

:( .... I know, Ionmhainn.

What if you were on the jury if/when this case comes to trial? You would have to see all reports as well as the pics taken before Maria's body was removed from the pit.

While it will make me sick, I will read every word of the report.

* crying icon here.

[henry]

Originally posted by bkwits



Well, I sure wish somebody would have. [/*]

holy cow . . . 2 posts on a page ITA

[BarbraAllen]

Originally posted by bkwits




Maybe, just maybe, she was being truthful. [/*]

What an amazing concept! Exactly, bkwits.

[Janz]

Originally posted by Ionmhainn


I've thought that more than once, donna. I want to know the results, but don't know if I really have the stomach for them. The vision in my mind's eye is bad enough. :( [/*]

I somewhat agree, Ionmhainn. Much of the truth surrounding this terrible mystery could be answered, with this information.

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by AnnieBean



This could be a clue. I bet she kept her housekey to Durhams on her key ring along w/ her car keys, her parents house key, etc etc. If SHE really wrote the note to Durham, don't you think she would have A: packed ALL of her stuff, not just a few things and
Bee*: left the housekey? I mean, if you are never coming back, you are sick of the marine life and see ya- but leaving some stuff behind and taking the key? THAT doesn't sound normal or even reasonable IMO. [/*]

I have always believed the key may have just simply been forgotten...nothing more sinister than that.

IMO.

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


I have always believed the key may have just simply been forgotten...nothing more sinister than that.

IMO. [/*]

I agree with you...she was in a terrible state of mind.

[strick10]

Originally posted by Jas.S


Nobody else has it but Maka who just said she had it but did not share.

Which, btw, has totally ruined my day off. Said day off which I piddled away on taking care of the kitties we are fostering and reading and posting on this board. :( [/*]

and Maka left us in suspense, pooey. O/T: Aww taking care of foster kittens. I went into work at 0500 and left early so that I could be at home to concentrate on the board today, between the time I left base and got home there was some excitement, of course there would be. Piddling away is a good thing.

[donna]

Originally posted by BarbraAllen


Thank you Donna. And I would never say never, either (as far as what I'd do or not do.)

I guess I was going from the tone of the conversations as I interpreted them from what Mary Lauterbach has said. It sounded like a fairly calm discussion, at least what I've heard. I remember her comments about telling Maria (paraphrased) that she should be sure of what she's saying, etc. I just didn't get the picture of an hysterical Maria on the other end of the phone.

But my heart breaks for Mary L. I would imagine she has second guessed her decisions countless times, don't all parents do this? It seems the world is full of the "if onlys." [/*]

:( ... The 'if only's' are so sad!
I agree that Mary Lauterbach has to be going through a neverending of 'IF ONLY' or 'WHAT IF's. It is probably always going to torment her.
Mary does have my deepest sympathy. I cannot judge her.

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by Jas.S
From the several of us who have asked for it now, the first one who gets it emailed to him/her should post it here? Or link to it?

Agreed? [/*]

Please.

(I am currently catching up on posts.)

[JanDoe]

.
I will not argue what a 27 yr. Navy Officer says COULD HAVE AND
SHOULD HAVE happened....I didn't do any time in the Military.

He must have seen quite a bit in those years, I'm sure.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


I have always believed the key may have just simply been forgotten...nothing more sinister than that.

IMO. [/*]

That is what I think too, She was young and hadn't roomed out off base before.........she probably thought nothing about it.

I also don't think it odd that she didn't take everything. I would think since she was of lower rank she didn't have much income and probably didn't have a lot of civy clothes. She would leave all the MC uniforms etc. behind imo. She wouldn't be needing those and soon she wouldn't even be wearing clothes for a pregnant woman. Imo she probably took her personal toiletries and her sweats or the clothes she could wear whether she was pregnant or not.

imoo

[strick10]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


I have always believed the key may have just simply been forgotten...nothing more sinister than that.

IMO. [/*]

Or she needed the key to lock the deadbolt from the outside. She probably didn't want to leave only the door knob lock locked if there was a deadbolt that had be locked from the outside.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by BarbraAllen


Thank you Donna. And I would never say never, either (as far as what I'd do or not do.)

I guess I was going from the tone of the conversations as I interpreted them from what Mary Lauterbach has said. It sounded like a fairly calm discussion, at least what I've heard. I remember her comments about telling Maria (paraphrased) that she should be sure of what she's saying, etc. I just didn't get the picture of an hysterical Maria on the other end of the phone.

But my heart breaks for Mary L. I would imagine she has second guessed her decisions countless times, don't all parents do this? It seems the world is full of the "if onlys." [/*]

Do you *think* you would have gone if it was your child?

I can tell you that I left another country when my husband and I were vacationing to get home pronto when my younger sister was attacked. I could no longer enjoy myself and I had to hold her and let her know we would all be there for her and do what we could to help her feel safe again.

I fear the VA and I would have been talking through the months Maria was needing to call home. Mary stated it was already going on, so this had to worsen it and even if she was just seeking attention, her uncle thought she needed her mother too from his off the cuff description of "attachment disorder" IMO.

I won't say anymore, but let's not pretend she didn't damage some of the efforts herself. I'm sure she wishes she had done things differently. We all make decisions we feel that way about, but they aren't always things you can't talk about again.

:( jmo

[Ionmhainn]

Originally posted by donna


:( .... I know, Ionmhainn.

What if you were on the jury if/when this case comes to trial? You would have to see all reports as well as the pics taken before Maria's body was removed from the pit.

While it will make me sick, I will read every word of the report.

* crying icon here. [/*]

donna, I'm sure I will read it too, but with trepidation. This case truly saddens me. Not sure I would make it through voir dire...I do believe in IUPG, but in my heart of hearts, and at this point, I believe CL did kill Maria. :(

[BarbraAllen]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


I agree Barbra.

I'm a parent and I feel that a parent's job is never complete. We will always continue to be parent's no matter what but at some point we do step back in our roles and let our children 'get on' or experience life firsthand. We will always be there to catch them when they fall or have problems.

When I made my post about what I would have done if I were ever in the same situation as Mary, I prefaced my post with I am in NO WAY criticizing Mary's parenting skills and then went on to say what I would have done if this had been me.

Again I say, I AM IN NO WAY KNOCKING MARY'S PARENTING SKILLS, that's just something another person should never do as we've never walked a mile in their shoes.

Like you, I have never had to deal with a situation like this and I, too, pray I never will have to.

I can say without a doubt that if anything ever happened to my girls, hubby and/or my grands, they might as well go ahead and lay me out right beside them as I know it would kill me.

JMO FWIW [/*]

I understand, nuttintodo and I didn't mean to say anything that implied you had done that, I hope my post didn't come off that way.

While I've been reading this afternoon I've also been sitting here thinking about possible "what would I do" situations. I would doubt that most people read crime boards and research crimes as the posters do here; one would think with all the knowledge and background, maybe if (God forbid) that one of us were in Mary's situation we might handle it better simply because we are more schooled, for lack of a better word. But then I think the shock and disbelief would most likely override that possible advantage.

Even as far away as it seems, one of us could find ourselves faced with the unthinkable. So many of these cases we see on television or discuss on the boards are just average American families, people like us and suddenly they're thrust under the spotlight, with every word they say being picked apart and interpreted. And in the meantime, the family is probably going over every single thing they did or did not do, wondering if they could have made a difference.

What a terrible place for anyone to be, and yet no one is guaranteed that tomorrow, it won't be one of us.

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by JanDoe
FWIW..
just got off the phone with my dad (27 yr. Navy Officer) said
that both LE and MC dropped the ball on this one.

Both knew of the rape allegations and missing person's report when Sheriff showed up at the Base....either could have and
should have detained him. [/*]

:confused:

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by strick10


and Maka left us in suspense, pooey. <snip>[/*]

And when she gets back here, she needs to break out the dustbuster and do some cleaning in her sandbox. :)

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


:confused: [/*]


:confused:

[hinman]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


And when she gets back here, she needs to break out the dustbuster and do some cleaning in her sandbox. :) [/*]It is probably filled with everyones request for the documents.;)

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by Sami


I'm no expert, especially on NC LE, but I did ask a couple of SC LE officers (county, just like Onslow only further South :D ), and they said the MPO would have given them the right to take Cesar in for questioning. They said he would have had the right to his attorney or the right to refuse to answer, but that he could have been held up to 24 hours while they searched for some probable cause and the 'right Judge' (their words) for a warrant.

JMO, though, and I'm no expert. Just happened to ask the SC experts about OUR State and thought I'd share it. [/*]

Again, at what point is this?

When did it switch from a woman leaving a note to civilllian authorities having her MPO and determining she was deceased?

I am guessing that is the period of time you are talking about, but would you confirm that?

It couldn't have been more than a few days. I AGREE CESAR shouldn't have escaped. But let's get an accurate time frame as to where you decide she is no longer on a getaway and is the victim of foul play.

What was the date they found her car with the MPO?:confused:

JMO:shrug:

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by hinman
It is probably filled with everyones request for the documents.;) [/*]

LOL, there's probably flames emitting from her pm box right now.

I just hope Maka can find a way to post it here. JMO

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


Again, at what point is this?

When did it switch from a woman leaving a note to civilllian authorities having her MPO and determining she was deceased?

I am guessing that is the period of time you are talking about, but would you confirm that?

It couldn't have been more than a few days. I AGREE CESAR shouldn't have escaped. But let's get an accurate time frame as to where you decide she is no longer on a getaway and is the victim of foul play.

What was the date they found her car with the MPO?:confused:

JMO:shrug: [/*]

Maria's car was found January 7th.

[JanDoe]

Candy..
at the point the Sheriff showed up on base, both MC and LE knew
they had a missing person and rape allegations.....enough cause
to detain......

[Maka]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/03/14/missing.marine/

"A gaping 4-inch wound was found on the left side of Lauterbach's neck, according to autopsy results released ... . The wound is "incised," meaning it is a clean cut such as that made by a sharp instrument. However, the wound itself would not have been fatal, as there was only minimal damage to the underlying muscle, ... .

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by JanDoe



:confused: [/*]

No disrespect at all meant. I just don't take one person's word as absolute, no matter who they are, and especially if I have no idea who they are. I could come on here and say my uncle, who is such and such, said such and such, but it's not the definitive answer that everyone must believe. Know what I mean.

Again, NO disrespect intended.

IMO.

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by Maka
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/03/14/missing.marine/

"A gaping 4-inch wound was found on the left side of Lauterbach's neck, according to autopsy results released ... . The wound is "incised," meaning it is a clean cut such as that made by a sharp instrument. However, the wound itself would not have been fatal, as there was only minimal damage to the underlying muscle, ... . [/*]

Thanks Maka for the info

[hinman]

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny


LOL, there's probably flames emitting from her pm box right now.

I just hope Maka can find a way to post it here. JMO [/*]
I do to and I know if she can she will she has always been so helpful.

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by Jas.S


Why don't you share the actual reports with us, Maka? [/*]

HUGE DITTO!

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


:confused: [/*]

:confused: comes into play when you put the facts on the table. First, there was a STERN CONVERSATION with MOM.

NEXT, there was a NOTE saying she was taking off.

NEXT, Mom and the military or NCIS confirmed she was not so credible, so her running off was not so far removed from the equation.

NEXT, in the event there is something on file for Lisa's claim on AC360, it had been done before possibly.

NEXT,military confirms she is stressed and facing a possible discharge.

So do you instantly think, gee she must have gone to visit the guy she accused of rape?

That would have been the furthest thing from my mind personally.

I would have been terrified of self-harm before I ever went to other thoughts given the scenario we know it to be at that time.

I don't understand why anyone would have been thinking Cesar at that time give the info they had and the note.

HOWEVER, that said, with a mother's intuition, you couldn't have held me back from finding Cesar.

JMO THO and nothing more. :shrug:

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


No disrespect at all meant. I just don't take one person's word as absolute, no matter who they are, and especially if I have no idea who they are. I could come on here and say my uncle, who is such and such, said such and such, but it's not the definitive answer that everyone must believe. Know what I mean.

Again, NO disrespect intended.

IMO. [/*]

yes I know what you are saying. However, I believe my father and know what his service has been including a few stories of
men under him that he has had to deal with.

[BarbraAllen]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


Do you *think* you would have gone if it was your child?

I can tell you that I left another country when my husband and I were vacationing to get home pronto when my younger sister was attacked. I could no longer enjoy myself and I had to hold her and let her know we would all be there for her and do what we could to help her feel safe again.

I fear the VA and I would have been talking through the months Maria was needing to call home. Mary stated it was already going on, so this had to worsen it and even if she was just seeking attention, her uncle thought she needed her mother too from his off the cuff description of "attachment disorder" IMO.

I won't say anymore, but let's not pretend she didn't damage some of the efforts herself. I'm sure she wishes she had done things differently. We all make decisions we feel that way about, but they aren't always things you can't talk about again.

:( jmo [/*]

I am so sorry to hear about your sister, and what a wonderful one you are that you went to her. I would do it for mine, and I know she would do it for me. I hope that she is doing okay, CandyKisses.

But there is the answer to your question "Do you *think* you would have gone if it was your child?" That's just it, Maria was not my child. By the same token my child is not Maria. I would hope I would make the best decision possible for MY child, based on ALL that I knew. (I also believe Mary knows more than she has said publicly, in fact I believe she has alluded to this by way of saying she couldn't discuss certain things related to the investigation.) In this particular situation, I also refer to what I wrote earlier, about the tone of their conversations, as described by Mary and others.

Again I am so sorry that happened to your sister but glad that she has a supportive family to help get her through this.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny


Maria's car was found January 7th. [/*]

And then was it the ninth they tried to interview him? I am trying to remember here.

[JanDoe]

.
wondering now if CL was right handed or left handed?

and if the wound was front to back or back to front?

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by JanDoe


yes I know what you are saying. However, I believe my father and know what his service has been including a few stories of
men under him that he has had to deal with. [/*]

Not a problem.

ETA: :patriot: to your Dad for his years of service to our country.

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by Jas.S


Please let them know that is incorrect.

Thank you. [/*]

no disrespect.....how is that incorrect?

geez....that rhymes

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by Jas.S


Please let them know that is incorrect.

Thank you. [/*]

:lol:

I can see now the forum's gonna be hoppin tonight. For a change!

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


Not a problem.

ETA: :patriot: to your Dad for his years of service to our country. [/*]

thank you...he will be so impressed that all these women
know about him now!

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by BarbraAllen

I understand, nuttintodo and I didn't mean to say anything that implied you had done that, I hope my post didn't come off that way.

While I've been reading this afternoon I've also been sitting here thinking about possible "what would I do" situations. I would doubt that most people read crime boards and research crimes as the posters do here; one would think with all the knowledge and background, maybe if (God forbid) that one of us were in Mary's situation we might handle it better simply because we are more schooled, for lack of a better word. But then I think the shock and disbelief would most likely override that possible advantage.

Even as far away as it seems, one of us could find ourselves faced with the unthinkable. So many of these cases we see on television or discuss on the boards are just average American families, people like us and suddenly they're thrust under the spotlight, with every word they say being picked apart and interpreted. And in the meantime, the family is probably going over every single thing they did or did not do, wondering if they could have made a difference.

What a terrible place for anyone to be, and yet no one is guaranteed that tomorrow, it won't be one of us. [/*]

I am sorry if I made it sound as though you were singling me out---that wasn't my intent. I just wanted to respond to your post about when does a parent stop being a parent, etc., and only mentioned that I had put out there my whatta, shouldas and couldas if I had been in Mary's situation.

Don't know why but I feel I have to defend most of what I post so no one takes my posts the wrong way and feels that I am criticizing anyone or anything concerning the Lauterbach family and they way in which they have handled this entire situation.

Yes, seriously, none of us know what tomorrow holds. I could very well go to bed tonight and get up tomorrow and find that someone either in my family or a close friend has been maimed or worse, murdered by someone.

I will tell you this---if I was in the spotlight, 1) I wouldn't wear white capri's with high heels, walk in front of the cameras posed at front door of OCSD in January on at least two occasions while the cameras were present and 2) I wouldn't wear the same pajama suit/lounge wear each time I was interviewed. (Just trying to lighten up the seriousness, that's all) :)

JMO

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


And then was it the ninth they tried to interview him? I am trying to remember here. [/*]

January 8th, and then he took time off on the 9th and 10th to meet with attorneys, and then fled the 11th.

[BarbraAllen]

Originally posted by Jas.S


I don't know how any of that could have been a "calm discussion." [/*]

Neither do I but I am just going by what was said. Maybe calm was not the right word to use; I meant as opposed to if Maria had called her right after it happened and screamed hysterically that this has happened and she needs help, now, from her mom.

And remember this is just my reaction to what I have read and heard, nothing more. But it makes me wonder if the possible scenario that was mentioned earlier on the forum might have been discussed between the mother and daughter; the one in which maybe Maria might have been questioning whether or not what had happened was actually rape. And this, to me, fits with the idea of trying to drop the allegations.

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by BarbraAllen


Neither do I but I am just going by what was said. Maybe calm was not the right word to use; I meant as opposed to if Maria had called her right after it happened and screamed hysterically that this has happened and she needs help, now, from her mom.

And remember this is just my reaction to what I have read and heard, nothing more. But it makes me wonder if the possible scenario that was mentioned earlier on the forum might have been discussed between the mother and daughter; the one in which maybe Maria might have been questioning whether or not what had happened was actually rape. And this, to me, fits with the idea of trying to drop the allegations. [/*]

don't you think Mary held Maria to a very high standard? After all,
she was adopted and well taken care of.....how could ML tell her
I've been involved with a married man and now I'm pregnant?

[BarbraAllen]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


I am sorry if I made it sound as though you were singling me out---that wasn't my intent. I just wanted to respond to your post about when does a parent stop being a parent, etc., and only mentioned that I had put out there my whatta, shouldas and couldas if I had been in Mary's situation.

Don't know why but I feel I have to defend most of what I post so no one takes my posts the wrong way and feels that I am criticizing anyone or anything concerning the Lauterbach family and they way in which they have handled this entire situation.

Yes, seriously, none of us know what tomorrow holds. I could very well go to bed tonight and get up tomorrow and find that someone either in my family or a close friend has been maimed or worse, murdered by someone.

I will tell you this---if I was in the spotlight, 1) I wouldn't wear white capri's with high heels, walk in front of the cameras posed at front door of OCSD in January on at least two occasions while the cameras were present and 2) I wouldn't wear the same pajama suit/lounge wear each time I was interviewed. (Just trying to lighten up the seriousness, that's all) :)

JMO [/*]

Not at all, I am probably more apologetic and tentative than most because I am new here so don't go by what I write!

And I missed the white capris scene, I've seen this referred to time and time again here. But I was there for the pajamas!
(I agree, now THAT is something I can easily say I would not do! Couldn't she ask the TV people to wait a few minutes and let her change?)

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by Jas.S


Likewise, I feel the same.

But I do not believe his service to our country in the Navy for 27 yrs gives him the deciding vote on how LE handled this in Onslow County, NC. Or the marines.

And I can tell you that I mean absolutely no disrespect. [/*]

I thank you very much for that....

[BarbraAllen]

Originally posted by JanDoe


don't you think Mary held Maria to a very high standard? After all,
she was adopted and well taken care of.....how could ML tell her
I've been involved with a married man and now I'm pregnant? [/*]

Yes I would agree Mary probably held Maria to a high standard, but I don't see how the fact that she was adopted fits into this.

Also in thinking of Mary, didn't Maria's sister have a baby that previous year? It sounds like Mary has had a very full plate even before this tragedy.

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by BarbraAllen


Yes I would agree Mary probably held Maria to a high standard, but I don't see how the fact that she was adopted fits into this.

Also in thinking of Mary, didn't Maria's sister have a baby that previous year? It sounds like Mary has had a very full plate even before this tragedy. [/*]

just the fact that ML and her sister were adopted by Mary and now Mary sees ML having a child alone...that's all I mean.

did ML's sister have a child alone?

[donna]

Maka, can you please share the ME report with someone here and we can pass it along to others?

It is a public report so it would not be stepping on CS toes if it were shared. Most of us have requested a copy, but will have to wait for it!

Thanks! - :)

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by BarbraAllen


Yes I would agree Mary probably held Maria to a high standard, but I don't see how the fact that she was adopted fits into this.

Also in thinking of Mary, didn't Maria's sister have a baby that previous year? It sounds like Mary has had a very full plate even before this tragedy. [/*]

I don't see how "adopted" comes into it either.

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by Jas.S
Tox report.

I will upload as soon as possible.

Sorry no link yet as it was email.

But it is a public document.

T O X I C O L O G Y R E P O R T

Office of the Chief Medical Examiner Toxicology Folder: T200800445
Chapel Hill, NC 27599-7580 Case Folder: F200800476
Date of Report: 23-jan-2008
Page: 1



DECEDENT: Maria Frances Lauterbach

Status of Report: Approved
Report Electronically Approved By: Ruth Winecker, Ph.D.


* * *


** Comments Concerning This Report **
No analyses requested, specimen(s) held.
** End of Comments Concerning This Report **

================================================== =============================
SPECIMENS received from Thomas *. Clark, III on 14-jan-2008

S080001155: Liver CONDITION: Decomposed
SOURCE: OBTAINED: 14-jan-2008

__________________________________________________ _____________________________

031408 18:00 * * * E N D O F R E P O R T * * * *200800195 [/*]

TY Jas. Please hurry. :D Darn, DS wants computer soon....ack.

[donna]

Originally posted by Jas.S
I just got the autopsy report and tox report. Have not read yet.

Will post as soon as I can upload.

I am sure others will have gotten it by now, too. [/*]

THANK YOU, Jas!

[hinman]

Originally posted by Jas.S
I just got the autopsy report and tox report. Have not read yet.

Will post as soon as I can upload.

I am sure others will have gotten it by now, too. [/*]Thank you Jas.

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


I don't see how "adopted" comes into it either. [/*]

Adopted into a two parent family that is secure....that's all
I mean that is hard enough.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by JanDoe


yes I know what you are saying. However, I believe my father and know what his service has been including a few stories of
men under him that he has had to deal with. [/*]


I think we are all adults here and can judge for ourselves the worth of what you are posting. What I surmised was this was your father's "opinion" based on 27 years of service. I don't think it needs further explanation. IMO

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by bkwits



I think we are all adults here and can judge for ourselves the worth of what you are posting. What I surmised was this was your father's "opinion" based on 27 years of service. I don't think it needs further explanation. IMO [/*]

hey, I'm just agreeing that everyone has an opinion I don't need
the lecture...anyone can come on here and say I know so-and-so
and he did such-and-such. I won't give further explanation.

[JanDoe]

.
I am wondering what the "baby clothing" is shown under the
subject of 'Disposiion of Clothing and Personal Effect"?

Does anyone know what that means?

[hinman]

I thought Maria had a gray sweat shirt on this is saying that she had on a green knit shirt.

[hinman]

Originally posted by JanDoe


could that be things taken from the luggage or trunk of her car? [/*]I bet it was.

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by hinman
I bet it was. [/*]

That would add-up.

[strick10]

A sheet and a comforter?

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by strick10
A sheet and a comforter? [/*]

that might have belonged to Laureans....easy way to move the
body without having to look at it.....

betting they purchased a new comforter and sheet set....

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by strick10
A sheet and a comforter? [/*]

Okay so now Christina doesn't miss a sheet or a comforter?:confused:

imoo

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Okay so now Christina doesn't miss a sheet or a comforter?:confused:

imoo [/*]

its a Christmas gift from Cesar....just threw the old one out?

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by JanDoe


that might have belonged to Laureans....easy way to move the
body without having to look at it.....

betting they purchased a new comforter and sheet set.... [/*]

Easier to move a body too.

imoo

[donna]

Jas, thank you for posting the report.

Gentle, NOW I honestly believe that Christina had to miss the comforter and the sheet. No one can make me believe she didn't.

[Regina.Lampert]

After reading how totally destroyed the remains were, anybody still think the only reason laurean set fire to the body was to "disguise" the grave? :flamemad:

Unable to even determine the sex of that poor, little baby. I hope laurean rots where ever he is...... :flamemad:

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Easier to move a body too.

imoo [/*]

really...how could Christina not suspect something?
if CL bought paint
if CL bought new sheets
if CL bought a new spread
if CL started a fire with the fence boards......etc

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by Jas.S
I've sent to the three people who emailed me. It takes forever.

Hopefully it can get passed around! [/*]

I thank you Jas.S

[bkwits]

Originally posted by JanDoe


hey, I'm just agreeing that everyone has an opinion I don't need
the lecture...anyone can come on here and say I know so-and-so
and he did such-and-such. I won't give further explanation. [/*]


I am truly sorry that that came across as a lecture. I certainly did mean for it to do so. I was trying to point out (feebly so I guess) that most of what is said here is someone's opinion. Again, I'm very sorry if I offended you.

IMO

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by JanDoe
.
I am wondering what the "baby clothing" is shown under the
subject of 'Disposiion of Clothing and Personal Effect"?

Does anyone know what that means? [/*]

From what I read so far the report says:

The following materials are preserved as evidence: all of the clothing, preserved in nylon bags for volatile analysis, the
comforter and sheet, preserved for volatile analysis, baby clothing, preserved for volatile analysis...

So that sounds like they have been sent for testing a volatile substance such as an accerlerant and/or what kind and if one was used.

[donna]

Originally posted by hinman
I thought Maria had a gray sweat shirt on this is saying that she had on a green knit shirt. [/*]

She had one on in the ATM tape.

Also, if the shirt and other things survived the fire, what about her pants???????

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert
After reading how totally destroyed the remains were, anybody still think the only reason laurean set fire to the body was to "disguise" the grave? :flamemad:

Unable to even determine the sex of that poor, little baby. I hope laurean rots where ever he is...... :flamemad: [/*]


NOPE

[donna]

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert
After reading how totally destroyed the remains were, anybody still think the only reason laurean set fire to the body was to "disguise" the grave? :flamemad:

Unable to even determine the sex of that poor, little baby. I hope laurean rots where ever he is...... :flamemad: [/*]

ITA, Regina.

I am just sick and heartsick over this.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert
After reading how totally destroyed the remains were, anybody still think the only reason laurean set fire to the body was to "disguise" the grave? :flamemad:

Unable to even determine the sex of that poor, little baby. I hope laurean rots where ever he is...... :flamemad: [/*]


Maria had a baby outfit size 0-3 months. Do you think she could have been on her way to the hospital, or thinking she might have to go soon?

This is truly, truly, gruesome. IMO

[BarbraAllen]

Thank you, JAS for posting the report.

I too am heartsick; this makes the imagined horror all so much more real. And so much worse.

[strick10]

Originally posted by JanDoe


that might have belonged to Laureans....easy way to move the
body without having to look at it.....

betting they purchased a new comforter and sheet set.... [/*]

I realize that.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by JanDoe


really...how could Christina not suspect something?
if CL bought paint
if CL bought new sheets
if CL bought a new spread
if CL started a fire with the fence boards......etc [/*]

IMO no woman could be this stupid or blind.

imoo

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by donna


She had one on in the ATM tape.

Also, if the shirt and other things survived the fire, what about her pants??????? [/*]

Pants and underwear glaringly missing from that report.

JMO

[hinman]

Originally posted by donna
Jas, thank you for posting the report.

Gentle, NOW I honestly believe that Christina had to miss the comforter and the sheet. No one can make me believe she didn't. [/*]I was truly on the fence but man after seeing that how could she not notice.

[Janz]

Originally posted by JanDoe


could that be things taken from the luggage or trunk of her car? [/*]

This tells me she was preparing for the birth of Gabriel and that these baby items were taken from her car and thrown in that pit with her...............

[strick10]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


Okay so now Christina doesn't miss a sheet or a comforter?:confused:

imoo [/*]

That's what I'm getting at. Not only that but he probably pulled those right off the bed to wrap Maria in. Had he gone to the linen closet it most likely would've been one or the other, not both.

[henry]

Originally posted by bkwits



Maria had a baby outfit size 0-3 months. Do you think she could have been on her way to the hospital, or thinking she might have to go soon?

This is truly, truly, gruesome. IMO [/*]

so what maria's mother said may have been true . . . contractions . . . as i remember other posters were saying braxton/hicks, etc., . . and all of her belongings have NOT been accounted for . . . per the 1st set of q-a sent to captain sutherland.

also . . . i thought this was not going to be released until trial - now i'm totally confused.

[donna]

Originally posted by bkwits



Maria had a baby outfit size 0-3 months. Do you think she could have been on her way to the hospital, or thinking she might have to go soon?

This is truly, truly, gruesome. IMO [/*]

I think she may have gotten it for the baby to wear home from the hospital. I still think Maria was leaving and was going to keep Gabriel.

Yes, gruesome. I do not think I will be having dinner.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


I don't see how "adopted" comes into it either. [/*]

Respectfully Savannah;

Walk a mile in the shoes of someone who has lived that and you might. I saw the difference in the family I married into. JMO and a very similar situation.

VERY...JMO.

I might be back to my very first theory now. This is so sad.
:(

[IvySterling]

Originally posted by donna


She had one on in the ATM tape.

Also, if the shirt and other things survived the fire, what about her pants??????? [/*]
The shirt she was found in may have been worn under her sweatshirt and she had taken her sweatshirt off :shrug:

BUT, like you, when I didn't read of anything but the shirt & sports bra I thought WTH, no bottoms??????????????

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by strick10


I realize that. [/*]

I think we all do....just sayin...

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert
After reading how totally destroyed the remains were, anybody still think the only reason laurean set fire to the body was to "disguise" the grave? :flamemad:

Unable to even determine the sex of that poor, little baby. I hope laurean rots where ever he is...... :flamemad: [/*]

I will believe whatever the DA and LE believe. I am sure they have the testing for accelerants back by now. That kind of test doesn't take that long.

imoo

[nuttintodo]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by JanDoe


really...how could Christina not suspect something?
if CL bought paint
if CL bought new sheets
if CL bought a new spread
if CL started a fire with the fence boards......etc [/*]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


IMO no woman could be this stupid or blind.

imoo [/*]

Obviously CSL wants to to appear she's that stupid or blind.

JMO

[Janz]

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert
After reading how totally destroyed the remains were, anybody still think the only reason laurean set fire to the body was to "disguise" the grave? :flamemad:

Unable to even determine the sex of that poor, little baby. I hope laurean rots where ever he is...... :flamemad: [/*]

Exactly! Pure Evil!

[hinman]

Originally posted by Jas.S


Where is that pls? [/*]Jas.s I apologize because I went back and read and it didn't say bottles. I think I seen bags and my eyes misread it as bottles.

I apologize to all because I know it will be seen as a fact and I will have to keep correcting it.

[henry]

Originally posted by Sami


Donna, did you look at the diagrams? They tell a lot about the burning of the body.

From what I can tell, 'he' concentrated on the LEFT side of her body. I'm wondering if that was the positioning of the Baby at the time of the fire. Can't think of any other reason that he burned so much in that concentrated area. [/*]

or, sadly, just the way she was rolled in . . .

[Janz]

Originally posted by Sami
Big Thank You to Maka, for telling us about this report and how to obtain our own copy.

And I do understand your sensitivity in not wanting to post it publicly. It is hard to read without feeling a gross invasion of privacy, especially on a public board.

Hard to believe two human beings could have been treated so horribly, just a few days before Christmas, then burned and buried during Christmas celebrations with family and friends. :mad: [/*]

Yes, TY Maka.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by donna


I think she may have gotten it for the baby to wear home from the hospital. I still think Maria was leaving and was going to keep Gabriel.

Yes, gruesome. I do not think I will be having dinner. [/*]

Or donna, maybe she called Cesar if they were talking :mad: (cringe here) and told him it was baby time, and he shoo'd Christina off to the party, told her to come there and she really took her hospital bag. HOWEVER, then we still have the note and how it got there IF IT IS HER HANDWRITING.

There is much that can be argued by a good defense attorney on the autopsy, but it's a tragic read for sure.

I wonder if they used texting if they had any contact????

:( So sad.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


Pants and underwear glaringly missing from that report.

JMO [/*]

Ugh, I don't even want to think about it. :cuss:

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by henry


or, sadly, just the way she was rolled in . . . [/*]

That's what I'm thinking too...and IIRC, didn't SB say that she was found with her face sorta down in the dirt too?

jmo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by hinman
Jas.s I apologize because I went back and read and it didn't say bottles. I think I seen bags and my eyes misread it as bottles.

I apologize to all because I know it will be seen as a fact and I will have to keep correcting it. [/*]

LOL I looked and looked for that.

No problem hinman....it is easy to scan read and think something was there that wasn't.

imoo

[strick10]

Originally posted by henry


so what maria's mother said may have been true . . . contractions . . . as i remember other posters were saying braxton/hicks, etc., . . and all of her belongings have NOT been accounted for . . . per the 1st set of q-a sent to captain sutherland.

also . . . i thought this was not going to be released until trial - now i'm totally confused. [/*]

THere's no telling. She may have thought to take the baby outfit w/ her when she left, could've been a gift. There's no telling henry, but the fact that he threw the outfit into the pit speaks loudly to me.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Sami
Big Thank You to Maka, for telling us about this report and how to obtain our own copy.

And I do understand your sensitivity in not wanting to post it publicly. It is hard to read without feeling a gross invasion of privacy, especially on a public board.

Hard to believe two human beings could have been treated so horribly, just a few days before Christmas, then burned and buried during Christmas celebrations with family and friends. :mad: [/*]

Even having Christmas and New Year's bonfires over their body. He must be heartless.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by Jas.S


No, or she would have had the required car seat.

There is no way to know whose outfit that was. All we know is that it was placed in a plastic bag and burned with the body. [/*]

Yes I would think she would have gotten the car seat by then.

No we don't know who's baby's outfit that was, BUT there's always that lingering possibility that it could have been Maria or someone purchased for the impending birth of Maria's baby.

JMO

[strick10]

Originally posted by JanDoe


I think we all do....just sayin... [/*]

:D

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by henry


or, sadly, just the way she was rolled in . . . [/*]

Right, Henry........it was the way she was position in the grave imo. That is why she has more charring to the left side. It was probably more exposed to the heat.

imoo

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Sami


Donna, did you look at the diagrams? They tell a lot about the burning of the body.

From what I can tell, 'he' concentrated on the LEFT side of her body. I'm wondering if that was the positioning of the Baby at the time of the fire. Can't think of any other reason that he burned so much in that concentrated area. [/*]

I can't see the diagrams... but my guess is that is how the body was put into the firepit... left side up... JMO

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Sami


bkwits, you need to houseclean. . . .

I agree with your post -- it's terrible to think about. I wonder how I would feel if this were MY child's (and grandchild's) autopsy report. :( [/*]

Again? Doing it now.

[hinman]

Originally posted by Jas.S


They weren't thrown into that pit, if we want to get technical.

She was wrapped in the comforter, and inside the comforter was the body with the clothes on top, and the baby item was in a plastic bag, on top, too. [/*]How did the plastic bag not melt?

[donna]

Originally posted by IvySterling

The shirt she was found in may have been worn under her sweatshirt and she had taken her sweatshirt off :shrug:

BUT, like you, when I didn't read of anything but the shirt & sports bra I thought WTH, no bottoms?????????????? [/*]

Ivy, her shirt and sports bra was still there enough for the ME to say that the sports bra was size medium. The shirt was green.

I guarantee you that if there was even one tiny scrap of pants there, they would have been listed.

I am infuriated all over again at this monster. AND CSL - no way she did not miss a sheet and comforter even out of the linen closet!!!!!

[strick10]

Originally posted by Jas.S


I believe that means that they put the body face down in a body bag. She has been wrapped in a sheet by LE, NOT CL or whomever.

For transport to ME's office.

The ME removes the sheet to see the body.

Observes the fragments of charred clothing ON TOP of the charred and decomposed body.

ME removes the clothing and seals it in a nylon bag so they can test it for an accelerant--like gas, fire lighter fluid, etc.

The body had been wrapped in the charred comforter. THAT had to be in the fire. So that had to come from the house.

ME takes the comforter and sends it for accelerant testing.

Along with ML's charred clothing was one item of baby clothing for which there is a label "size 0-3 months." [/*]

Ahh see....regarding the sheet. Thanks Jas.S for sharing this w/ this.

[Janz]

Originally posted by Jas.S


They weren't thrown into that pit, if we want to get technical.

She was wrapped in the comforter, and inside the comforter was the body with the clothes on top, and the baby item was in a plastic bag, on top, too. [/*]

Point taken.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Jas.S


No, or she would have had the required car seat.

There is no way to know whose outfit that was. All we know is that it was placed in a plastic bag and burned with the body. [/*]

No offense intended, but who else could that baby outfit belong to?

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Yes I would think she would have gotten the car seat by then.

No we don't know who's baby's outfit that was, BUT there's always that lingering possibility that it could have been Maria or someone purchased for the impending birth of Maria's baby.

JMO [/*]

Who was it that used to think he called her over to offer her some baby clothes and that nasty car seat in the garage?:o

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by nuttintodo
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by JanDoe


really...how could Christina not suspect something?
if CL bought paint
if CL bought new sheets
if CL bought a new spread
if CL started a fire with the fence boards......etc [/*]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Obviously CSL wants to to appear she's that stupid or blind.

JMO [/*]

Obviously she is pretending quite well in both departments.

imoo

[nuttintodo]

Here's the Autopsy report online at JDNEWS.com:

http://www.jdnews.com/attachments/jxqt6p-lauterbachautopsy1.pdf

I got a breaking new alert from them and there it is online. I had been attempting to put it online for all to see but they beat me to it, LOL.

JMO

[JanDoe]

There is a hinge fracture of the base of the skull, preceding from
the right middle fossa to the left middle fossa. There is a second fracture of the right middle fossa, shorter, and anterior
to the hinge fracture. These skull fractures are photographed.

she was hit hard and had to have fallen quickly...

[strick10]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


Or donna, maybe she called Cesar if they were talking :mad: (cringe here) and told him it was baby time, and he shoo'd Christina off to the party, told her to come there and she really took her hospital bag. HOWEVER, then we still have the note and how it got there IF IT IS HER HANDWRITING.

There is much that can be argued by a good defense attorney on the autopsy, but it's a tragic read for sure.

I wonder if they used texting if they had any contact????

:( So sad. [/*]

Texting, yes a more private way of communicating when you don't want ears to hear. I keep thinking back to the infant car seat in the garage. I wonder if that's how Maria found her way into the garage. Perhaps CAL told her he had a car seat she could have in order to get her to that particular area of the house?

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Sami

Try this link for the Autopsy Report -- diagrams are at the bottom.

http://www.jdnews.com/attachments/jxqt6p-lauterbachautopsy1.pdf [/*]

Thanks, Sami. Unfortunately, I can't read PDF files on my laptop at home. I will look Monday.

[KKKKKKatie]

Originally posted by strick10


THere's no telling. She may have thought to take the baby outfit w/ her when she left, could've been a gift. There's no telling henry, but the fact that he threw the outfit into the pit speaks loudly to me. [/*]

Or maybe that is how CL lured her to his house...with a gift of the baby?

[donna]

Originally posted by Sami


Donna, did you look at the diagrams? They tell a lot about the burning of the body.

From what I can tell, 'he' concentrated on the LEFT side of her body. I'm wondering if that was the positioning of the Baby at the time of the fire. Can't think of any other reason that he burned so much in that concentrated area. [/*]

Sami, I am downloading the actual document now. I will get to see the diagram!

[henry]

Originally posted by strick10


THere's no telling. She may have thought to take the baby outfit w/ her when she left, could've been a gift. There's no telling henry, but the fact that he threw the outfit into the pit speaks loudly to me. [/*]

yes . . . so sad . . . and to the other poster about requiring a car seat . . . that's something the hospitals give away for free or rent them out in some locations . . . so it's not a requirement for going to the hospital, jmo.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by strick10


Texting, yes a more private way of communicating when you don't want ears to hear. I keep thinking back to the infant car seat in the garage. I wonder if that's how Maria found her way into the garage. Perhaps CAL told her he had a car seat she could have in order to get her to that particular area of the house? [/*]

Could be....

[KKKKKKatie]

Originally posted by Sami


I thought of that, too, Katie.

Maybe he had been telling Maria he was going to come clean about his fatherhood to the MC, and maybe he told her he had even bought a gift for his son. [/*]

it could explain why she went over there :shrug:

[Howiefan]

very very sad indeed... So she was wearing a green knit shirt and not the same one that she had on at the ATM machine at 4:20 pm...I think she may have gone home after the ATM to change and maybe just maybe Laurean kidnapped her.
jmo... this is terribly gruesome crime for sure

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


No offense intended, but who else could that baby outfit belong to? [/*]

Since the label is readable then they may have traced it back to the store where it was bought. If it was Maria maybe she showed DD.

As of now though we don't know who bought it.

imoo

[KKKKKKatie]

I had to look it up :(

Friability means the ability to reduce a solid substance into smaller pieces with little effort

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friable

[donna]

Originally posted by Jas.S
OOPS.

My first impression was totally WRONG as per the sheet.

:punch: to me.

the autopsy says:

DISPOSITION OF CLOTHING AND PERSONAL EFFECTS
The following items are preserved as evidence
The following materials are preserved as evidence: all of the clothing, preserved in nylon bags for volatile analysis, the
comforter and sheet, preserved for volatile analysis, baby clothing, preserved for volatile analysis, a sample of head hair,
fetal material for DNA analysis, and a segment of femur for maternal DNA analysis.

---------------------

The comforter and sheet HAD to have been from the killer, as it was perserved for evidence. [/*]

Yes, sheet & comforter has to be from their home! POSSIBLY with CSL's DNA or maybe one of her hairs also???? Possible

[KKKKKKatie]

Originally posted by Jas.S
PROCEDURES
Radiographs
Radiographs of the whole body show metal debris, including staples and nails, but no projectiles.

:confused: [/*]

debris from the burned fence IMO

[strick10]

Originally posted by henry


yes . . . so sad . . . and to the other poster about requiring a car seat . . . that's something the hospitals give away for free or rent them out in some locations . . . so it's not a requirement for going to the hospital, jmo. [/*]

Maybe Maria didn't know that where she was intending to go gave away car seats. I dunno, it was just a thought about the car seat. He had to have gotten her into the garage somehow. If I knew who built the home I could possibly obtain the layout to see if she were running away if the garage was the only door that was the fastest to reach for her to get away.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by Jas.S
PROCEDURES
Radiographs
Radiographs of the whole body show metal debris, including staples and nails, but no projectiles.

:confused: [/*]

Yes Captain Sutherland or SB said that the staples and nails from the fencing were also found in the grave.

imoo

[KKKKKKatie]

Originally posted by Jas.S


I'm sorry, but that is just so out there for me.

Your rapist lures you to his house with a baby gift?

:shrug: [/*]

she had had a relationship with him...the baby could very well be his...so yes...I think it is possible

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by strick10


Maybe Maria didn't know that where she was intending to go gave away car seats. I dunno, it was just a thought about the car seat. He had to have gotten her into the garage somehow. If I knew who built the home I could possibly obtain the layout to see if she were running away if the garage was the only door that was the fastest to reach for her to get away. [/*]

we've seen the layout....only one man-door and car-door...on opposite side of each other in the garage....

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by henry


yes . . . so sad . . . and to the other poster about requiring a car seat . . . that's something the hospitals give away for free or rent them out in some locations . . . so it's not a requirement for going to the hospital, jmo. [/*]

Yes but I know it's a requirement to have a car seat, whether you supply it or they supply it before you are allowed to leave the hospital with a newborn.

JMO

[gaelicpeas]

okay.. the missing pants and panties... trying to think of different scenarios....

the first one that comes to mind is CL and ML are having sex and CSL comes home... :eek:

I am sure there are other possibilities, but that jumped into my mind right away.

JMO

[strick10]

Originally posted by Jas.S


I'm sorry, but that is just so out there for me.

Your rapist lures you to his house with a baby gift?

:shrug: [/*]

Not me he wouldn't, he could keep his darn gift.

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
okay.. the missing pants and panties... trying to think of different scenarios....

the first one that comes to mind is CL and ML are having sex and CSL comes home... :eek:

I am sure there are other possibilities, but that jumped into my mind right away.

JMO [/*]

I just can't imagine that.......

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by Jas.S


No idea, hinman.

They said the plastic bag was melted or melting. [/*]

Just a side note, many of the hospitals give a complimentary car seat, along with the Enfamil or Similac gift pack/diaper bag when the mom is discharged, so arriving at the hospital without a car seat is no biggee. It's when the mom is ready to leave that without one, the baby will not be discharged. If needed, a social worker will be afforded to assist with the purchase should there not be a car seat 'gift' given by the particular hospital. That's been my experience. JMO

[strick10]

Originally posted by JanDoe


we've seen the layout....only one man-door and car-door...on opposite side of each other in the garage.... [/*]

I'm talking about the entire house layout....

[henry]

Originally posted by strick10


Maybe Maria didn't know that where she was intending to go gave away car seats. I dunno, it was just a thought about the car seat. He had to have gotten her into the garage somehow. If I knew who built the home I could possibly obtain the layout to see if she were running away if the garage was the only door that was the fastest to reach for her to get away. [/*]

yup . . . the point i was making is that the other poster said it was the law - yes, to take a baby home, but not to go there . . . jmo

edit . . fewf . . . made it back in time . . . here's the post i was questioning:

If she were on the way to the hospital to deliver, she would be required by law to have the car seat.

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by strick10


I'm talking about the entire house layout.... [/*]

3 doors in the house.....
front door
back door
garage door out of kitchen...

[strick10]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
okay.. the missing pants and panties... trying to think of different scenarios....

the first one that comes to mind is CL and ML are having sex and CSL comes home... :eek:

I am sure there are other possibilities, but that jumped into my mind right away.

JMO [/*]

That was the first thought that came to mind for me as well, just didn't want to say it.....

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Sami
She was killed on 12/14.

The bodies were autopsied on 1/14.

We're reading it on 3/14.

What was the date the body was released to the family? Anyone remember?

I'm wondering if the MC got the bodies shortly after this report and for how long. [/*]

Dumb me. I fixed it. I forgot about the outgoing messages. hammer

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by strick10


That was the first thought that came to mind for me as well, just didn't want to say it..... [/*]

the second thought that came to my mind is CL had sex with a dead body.. and that is really, really sick...

JMO

[bkwits]

Originally posted by strick10


That was the first thought that came to mind for me as well, just didn't want to say it..... [/*]

I had a worse thought. I won't even say it.

I didn't have to say it. :eek:

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by bkwits



Maria had a baby outfit size 0-3 months. Do you think she could have been on her way to the hospital, or thinking she might have to go soon?

This is truly, truly, gruesome. IMO [/*]

It does negate the point made by some on here that she didn't have anything at all for the baby! We just did NOT know that for fact.

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by Jas.S


I do believe from what I have read several times so far, that the body was nude, the clothes found were on top.

And yeah, that possibility hit me right when I read it, too.

from the autopsy:
The sheet is removed to reveal fragments of charred clothing on top of a charred and decomposed body.

The clothing consist of a sports bra, medium size, and a green knit shirt.

This clothing is sealed in nylon bags for accelerant analysis.
The body is also wrapped in a partially charred comforter. It, too, is preserved in a nylon bag.

Along with the clothing,
there is a melted plastic bag that contains an item of baby clothing. There is a label "Size 0-3 months." [/*]

I didn't get that the body was nude.......thought the lower clothing
was burned off........

[donna]

Originally posted by Sami


Let me know what you think, donna. [/*]

I will, Sami! Taking a long time to download, but almost done!

[strick10]

Originally posted by Jas.S


Well, I am gonna put my foot down on this one!

If, as has been reported, she had childbirth classes, she would have known about the car seat requirement for the hospital.

Knowing about the kind of income limits, or lack thereof, that hospitals have for the rent and/or borrow car seats programs, because ML was in the marines, and had a paying job, and not at the poverty level--no way would she make it.

But, since I am so not finding the links for that right now--JMO! [/*]

I'm deaf in my right ear but my left ear works okay,,,,no need to yell. :D
I agree she would have known about car seats from her child birth classes and most likely she would've gotten one from the CLNC Naval at no cost to her. Maybe it was just my wording, what I meant is that because she was probably leaving the area she may not have known that a car seat could be made available to her at the medical facilities she would give birth in away from CLNC or she may have not thought about needing one until later that afternoon/early evening if in fact she thought she was really in labor. Just a thought.

[donna]

Originally posted by bkwits


I had a worse thought. I won't even say it.

I didn't have to say it. :eek: [/*]

I know what your worse thought is, bkwits, and it could be...........just saying.

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by Jas.S
PROCEDURES
Radiographs
Radiographs of the whole body show metal debris, including staples and nails, but no projectiles.

:confused: [/*]

In Greta’s Crime Scene Tour video at @ 1:40:

GVS: “Can I just ask you about the wood fences, see the wood panels are missing from the fence?” Any theory on where those wood panels, any relationship this case?”

SB: “Well, there’s wood panels missing here and wood panels missing over here, what I am told, as they exhumed the body, that there were staples and the nails which indicated that they probably had been used in this burning in the pit.”

http://tinyurl.com/2wmoda

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by donna


Yes, sheet & comforter has to be from their home! POSSIBLY with CSL's DNA or maybe one of her hairs also???? Possible [/*]

Hate to be devil's advocate here again, but....there are a number of sheets/comforters in my linen closet. If one of each were missing, I would not necessarily notice.

[nuttintodo]

Has anyone thought to email GVS and let her know the report is back?

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by Jas.S


But the autopsy reports say that the clothing fragments were on top of the body.

from the autopsy:
The sheet is removed to reveal fragments of charred clothing on top of a charred and decomposed body. [/*]

fire on top burns hotter but fire underneath burns longer....

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by Jas.S


I'm sorry, but that is just so out there for me.

Your rapist lures you to his house with a baby gift?

:shrug: [/*]

Too out there for me as well, Jas.

[strick10]

Originally posted by JanDoe


3 doors in the house.....
front door
back door
garage door out of kitchen... [/*]

Never mind, you're not understanding what I'm trying to envision. I've seen the pictures that have been made available so I have as good an idea as everyone where the doors are and how many. Thanks though.

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by Jas.S


Lynn, they don't even give out the Enfamil/Similac gift packs anymore. [/*]

LOL, yes I know that there was a move on to 'ban' the giving of formula packs from the formula companies, but mom's want those cute diaper bags. JMO

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by Sami


I thought some of ya'll didn't think she was raped. Guess it wasn't Jas.S. or SS . . . . . .;) [/*]

Oh I get ya now......had to think about it. No, I don't think she was raped, but IF she were raped, I don't think he'd be luring her out with a baby gift, and IF she were NOT raped, I don't think he'd be luring her out with a baby gift either. Does that cover it all? :D

[hinman]

Originally posted by Sami
I understand now why Sheriff Ed was so shaken -- and so mad that Cesar got away! [/*]Me to Sami. The autopsy has left me shaken. It really makes it a reality. Just so sad.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by donna


I know what your worse thought is, bkwits, and it could be...........just saying. [/*]

But could he be that depraved? :flamemad:

[gaelicpeas]

Given these autopsy results, it is not clear to me why LE said that CL did not intend to burn the bodies...

Any ideas on this?

[Sherlocksmom]

Originally posted by hinman
Me to Sami. The autopsy has left me shaken. It really makes it a reality. Just so sad. [/*]


ITA hinman! :( God i wish they could find this pos and throw his behind in jail! Guess the cutting of the throat post mortem debate is settled now.

[Maka]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
okay.. the missing pants and panties... trying to think of different scenarios....

the first one that comes to mind is CL and ML are having sex and CSL comes home... :eek:

I am sure there are other possibilities, but that jumped into my mind right away.

JMO [/*]

or maybe CSL didn't come home &

maybe CL forced Maria to undress in the garage ... sometimes people feel too embarrassed to escape when they're naked ... and carried out his plan to kill her

I'm still going on my belief that when he wrote about "she had a plan" he was really talking about himself "I had a plan"

I wonder if they bought that little outfit together or not.

[Sherlocksmom]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
Given these autopsy results, it is not clear to me why LE said that CL did not intend to burn the bodies...

Any ideas on this? [/*]


I must have missed that Ms. Peas. They stated he did not intend to burn the bodies? Why did he build the fires over them then? :confused:

[gaelicpeas]

I mean, it appears that the fence sections were placed on top of the body and burned before the dirt was placed over the body if I am reading this right...

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Sherlocksmom



I must have missed that Ms. Peas. They stated he did not intend to burn the bodies? Why did he build the fires over them then? :confused: [/*]

I don't have the link, Sherlock.. but there was at least one article that said LE did not believe CL intentionally tried to burn the bodies, but instead just tried to cover up the fact that he had buried them there.

Since I have no link, I will have to say JMO.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by Sami
She was killed on 12/14.

The bodies were autopsied on 1/14.

We're reading it on 3/14.

What was the date the body was released to the family? Anyone remember?

I'm wondering if the MC got the bodies shortly after this report and for how long. [/*]

1-2-3-4- conspiracies now? :eek:

:chicken:

[hinman]

Originally posted by Maka


or maybe CSL didn't come home &

maybe CL forced Maria to undress in the garage ... sometimes people feel too embarrassed to escape when they're naked ... and carried out his plan to kill her

I'm still going on the my belief that when he wrote about "she had a plan" he was really talking about himself "I had a plan"

I wonder if they bought that little outfit together or not. [/*]Maka thank you so much for letting us no this was available. I really appreciate it. You gave us somethign to discuss.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Maka


or maybe CSL didn't come home &

maybe CL forced Maria to undress in the garage ... sometimes people feel too embarrassed to escape when they're naked ... and carried out his plan to kill her

I'm still going on my belief that when he wrote about "she had a plan" he was really talking about himself "I had a plan"

I wonder if they bought that little outfit together or not. [/*]

I think there are numerous possibilities... and this could be one of them.

The clothes could have also just burned off.. who knows...

But the fact that some clothing survived the burning, but the pants and panties did not.... well, to me that implies something else was going on, but that is JMO.

[Sherlocksmom]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


I don't have the link, Sherlock.. but there was at least one article that said LE did not believe CL intentionally tried to burn the bodies, but instead just tried to cover up the fact that he had buried them there.

Since I have no link, I will have to say JMO. [/*]


Seems pretty intentional to me but hey what do i know? LOL Got any new theories Ms. Peas?:D

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by Jas.S


Could you pls add that the notion of a woman "lured" by a gift is rather demeaning to women?

Or that if she had been, in fact, raped, there is no way on earth that the rapist would have, ahem, invited her to his house with a gift? Or that that the person raped would have gone?

TIA! [/*]

SOMEBODY did think that in the beginning. Am I really the only one who remembers?

:eek: Could it have been AnnieBean?

Seriously tho, I do remember someone thinking that was how he got back in touch with her.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Sherlocksmom



Seems pretty intentional to me but hey what do i know? LOL Got any new theories Ms. Peas?:D [/*]

Not really.. well maybe one more. I didn't have a theory that implies CL raped her one last time post-mortem.

Other than that, the autopsy findings are applicable to any of a number of theories.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by SavannahStar


It does negate the point made by some on here that she didn't have anything at all for the baby! We just did NOT know that for fact. [/*]

No we didn't know that, and it was talked about like it was a fact. IMO

[nuttintodo]

I am sitting here at a total loss of words.

How could someone do this to another human being? Maybe it's me but I could never desecrate a human being in this manner!

This was done by a cold and heartless individual or individuals.

And I'm madder than heck that CAL waltzed right out of town like he did. :cuss:

JMO

[JanDoe]

Maria's legs and arms would have burnt much quicker than her
torso.....if the excelerant was condensed at the mid-section,
her lower clothing would have all been ash.

Fire burns hotter on top and longer underneath....I don't think
she was nude....jmo

[JanDoe]

Originally posted by Jas.S


I doubt very much that the state/NC's office would release the body to the marines.

How would that happen? [/*]

they say they did

[Kel65]

Originally posted by Jas.S


Ixnay on the cute diaper bags now too. :(

But those hospital bills keep rising! [/*]

I hated those diaper bags (my youngest child was born 6 yrs ago). Why couldn't they give one that didn't have cute little duckies all over them. You know, something that your husband would actually carry and not be totally embarrassed (especially a Marine). Sorry to be OT, just trying to bring some levity to the forum tonight , especially after what we read in the ME report. That was tough to read.

[donna]

Originally posted by bkwits


But could he be that depraved? :flamemad: [/*]

If you are meaning what I think you are meaning, bkwits, yes he could. I am thinking CAL cut Maria's abdomen.

Now don't everybody jump me for that one!!

:chicken:

[nuttintodo]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Sherlocksmom



I must have missed that Ms. Peas. They stated he did not intend to burn the bodies? Why did he build the fires over them then? [/*]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


IIRC it was none other than Capt. Rick who made that comment in a interview and the video of the interview was once a upon a time over at wnct.com.

JMO

[Sherlocksmom]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


Not really.. well maybe one more. I didn't have a theory that implies CL raped her one last time post-mortem.

Other than that, the autopsy findings are applicable to any of a number of theories. [/*]



OMG I hope she didn't suffer that kind of final indignaty. He did enough to her when she was alive. More than enough after she dies too....sliced her neck, buried and burned her. Perhaps if the pants and panties were gone he raped her one last time before he smashed her head in? Not that it would make it better but thinking about him having sex post mortem with her corpse makes me want to barf .

[Maka]

Originally posted by hinman
Maka thank you so much for letting us no this was available. I really appreciate it. You gave us somethign to discuss. [/*]

You're welcome...I have a few more things requested from here and there....I'll keep my lips sealed for a few hours next time a document comes out and wait for Lindell to spill the beans. Dunno if he's asked for the same stuff though.

[Janz]

Originally posted by nuttintodo
I am sitting here at a total loss of words.

How could someone do this to another human being? Maybe it's me but I could never desecrate a human being in this manner!

This was done by a cold and heartless individual or individuals.

And I'm madder than heck that CAL waltzed right out of town like he did. :cuss:

JMO [/*]

Hello nuttin, I am sitting here as well, silent, stunned and sickened.

Even if I had words for Cesar, I could not post them.

[Sherlocksmom]

Originally posted by Sami
IIRC, the Marines received the body of Maria to try to fit the markings on the skull to a weapon.

I'm not going to look for a link, so jmo. We discussed this some time back, so I don't know why it's being questioned now. :rolleyes: [/*]



IIRC you are indeed correct Sami. Not going to look for the link either as most likely recall it.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by JanDoe


I just can't imagine that....... [/*]

I can't imagine it either unless the USMC was really underplaying her wanting out of the rape accusations because that would be the reason for a possible discharge, and that they were still involved.

I wasn't sold on them still being involved or that they had become involved again, but in the event they were INVOLVED STILL, then it wouldn't be so out of the realm of possibility IMO. :(

IF that were the scenario, it would likely explain the comforter and the lack of description on slacks/pants.

JMO and sadly at that. :(

[donna]

Originally posted by nuttintodo
I am sitting here at a total loss of words.

How could someone do this to another human being? Maybe it's me but I could never desecrate a human being in this manner!

This was done by a cold and heartless individual or individuals.

And I'm madder than heck that CAL waltzed right out of town like he did. :cuss:

JMO [/*]

Me too, nuttin! And Christina spent from Thursday morning, Jan.10th to approximately 4:00 AM the morning of Jan. 11th knowing that the very least her husband had done was bury the body of a dead pregnant female he was accused of raping before going to LE!!!

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by Jas.S


I doubt very much that the state/NC's office would release the body to the marines.

How would that happen? [/*]

Her body was released to the Armed Forces Pathology place (I don't know the exact name). How do you think they did the second autopsy on her?

JMO

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Sherlocksmom




OMG I hope she didn't suffer that kind of final indignaty. He did enough to her when she was alive. More than enough after she dies too....sliced her neck, buried and burned her. Perhaps if the pants and panties were gone he raped her one last time before he smashed her head in? Not that it would make it better but thinking about him having sex post mortem with her corpse makes me want to barf . [/*]

Maybe he took the clothing off because he saw the baby struggling. I just don't want to go any further than that. :eek:

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by Janz


Hello nuttin, I am sitting here as well, silent, stunned and sickened.

Even if I had words for Cesar, I could not post them. [/*]

That's why I inserted the :cuss: icon. My words to him couldn't go here at all! They would not be so nice.

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by Sami


Covers it very nicely.

For a minute there, ya'll forgot your position on the rape/non-rape. :D [/*]

It was the "lured over there" that caught my attention more than anything, Sami. I think she went over there of her own volition.

[Sherlocksmom]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Her body was released to the Armed Forces Pathology place (I don't know the exact name). How do you think they did the second autopsy on her?

JMO [/*]


LOL Yep I am pretty certain a body was needed for them to do their autopsy. :D

[Sherlocksmom]

Originally posted by bkwits


Maybe he took the clothing off because he saw the baby struggling. I just don't want to go any further than that. :eek: [/*]


I know bkwits i am right there with you. Nothing this guy did would surprise me at this point though. :cuss:

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by Sami
IIRC, the Marines received the body of Maria to try to fit the markings on the skull to a weapon.

I'm not going to look for a link, so jmo. We discussed this some time back, so I don't know why it's being questioned now. :rolleyes: [/*]

The military asked to conduct a second autopsy on Lauterbach following a state performed autopsy.

Lauterbach's family gave its approval for the Marine autopsy, which was completed Tuesday, Hudson said.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/23/missing.marine/

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by nuttintodo
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Sherlocksmom



I must have missed that Ms. Peas. They stated he did not intend to burn the bodies? Why did he build the fires over them then? [/*]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


IIRC it was none other than Capt. Rick who made that comment in a interview and the video of the interview was once a upon a time over at wnct.com.

JMO [/*]

I thought JDN had it too Nuttintodo. :(

I definitely remember him saying that tho.

[strick10]

I'm looking at the diagram showing where Maria was fataly hit and it leads me to believe that she saw the blow coming and may have turned her head out of instinct. Anyone have any input of this. I was hoping that she didn't see the blow coming and that the fatal hit was located at the back of her head to save her the realization of what was about to happen. Plz don't anyone misunderstand what I'm saying as I do truely wish Maria were still here with us.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by Sherlocksmom



LOL Yep I am pretty certain a body was needed for them to do their autopsy. :D [/*]

Oops I didn't mean it to sound that way! :D I hit the reply button for before adding: to put her skull back together.

[henry]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


I don't have the link, Sherlock.. but there was at least one article that said LE did not believe CL intentionally tried to burn the bodies, but instead just tried to cover up the fact that he had buried them there.

Since I have no link, I will have to say JMO. [/*]

but . . . the report is not back as to whether an axcellerant (crap-i can never spell that word) was used . . . so there could be more charges, allegedly, down the line . . . jmo

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by donna


Me too, nuttin! And Christina spent from Thursday morning, Jan.10th to approximately 4:00 AM the morning of Jan. 11th knowing that the very least her husband had done was bury the body of a dead pregnant female he was accused of raping before going to LE!!! [/*]

12 hours, that's right. 12 hours of shock and awe. We will always disagree on the significance of this.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by nuttintodo
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Sherlocksmom



I must have missed that Ms. Peas. They stated he did not intend to burn the bodies? Why did he build the fires over them then? [/*]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


IIRC it was none other than Capt. Rick who made that comment in a interview and the video of the interview was once a upon a time over at wnct.com.

JMO [/*]

That was my memory too, Nuttin.. I am sure Lynn will provide a link soon.. she is the best!

[hinman]

So are some thinking they were having sex and that is why there is no pants or panties?

I am not sure I am following this. Why was she in a green shirt when the ATM video showed her in a sweat shirt?

What happened to the pants and panties I am assuming they burned up along with her sweatshirt or she changed before her death?

[hinman]

Originally posted by strick10
I'm looking at the diagram showing where Maria was fataly hit and it leads me to believe that she saw the blow coming and may have turned her head out of instinct. Anyone have any input of this. I was hoping that she didn't see the blow coming and that the fatal hit was located at the back of her head to save her the realization of what was about to happen. Plz don't anyone misunderstand what I'm saying as I do truely wish Maria were still here with us. [/*]I think she saw the blow coming also. I don't see how she couldn't:(

Why the overkill though the slicing of her neck just sickening.

[Howiefan]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
okay.. the missing pants and panties... trying to think of different scenarios....

the first one that comes to mind is CL and ML are having sex and CSL comes home... :eek:

I am sure there are other possibilities, but that jumped into my mind right away.

JMO [/*]
what if she indeed was wearing that green knit shirt... what happened to the sweat shirt that she had on at the ATM machine on the 14th.. What if she went home to change....into the green knit shirt and Laurean was waiting for her and forced her into truck or whatever... maybe heaven forbid raped her...She looked very nervous at that ATM machine
This is one awful way to die and that poor baby... Kill someone if you must but to do this to a woman or anyone and their unborn child... Man this guy deserves to burn in hell

[Janz]

Originally posted by Howiefan

what if she indeed was wearing that green knit shirt... what happened to the sweat shirt that she had on at the ATM machine on the 14th.. What if she went home to change....into the green knit shirt and Laurean was waiting for her and forced her into truck or whatever... maybe heaven forbid raped her...
This is one awful way to die and that poor baby... Kill someone if you must but to do this to a woman or anyone and their unborn child... Man this guy deserves to burn in hell [/*]

yep, he deserves a bonfire in HELL.