Betsy Aardsma Connection

[littlehorn]

Hi all,

I'm looking for information on the Betsy Aardsma case, and it appears there is at least some connection or interest by Ray Gricar in this case.

I'd love it if anyone with any knowledge of the case would contact me, especially Cinderella, at my posted email.

I'm researching this and I'm about ready to start making some big moves to try to stir up new leads in the case.

Thanks,

Derek

[J. J. in Phila]

There is a good article on it here:

http://www.statecollegemagazine.com/home_pages/Betsy/who_killed_aardsma.html

An assistant English professor, Robert Durgy, was a suspect. He resigned soon afterward, and died in a mysterious automobile accident several weeks afterward.

In the book 20/20 Vision, an account loosely based on the Aardsma case, Ms. West made the murderer a professor at Shawnee University.

[littlehorn]

JJ,

Thanks for the reply! I've read that article and talked with the author. He is in his late 20's and is still investigating on his own into the case.

Most of the folks I have talked to feel that Durgy was effectively ruled out as a suspect, just an odd coincidence. For one thing, the timeline is off, as Durgy was on his way home with his family to Ann Arbor at the time Aardsma was killed.

Oddly enough, the author of that article seems very frightened of either a lawsuit or some other unnamed consequence and has not been too open. He said he feels he is about 33% sure of who he suspects did it, but he's been very evasive about talking about it, despite repeated assurances of confidentiality on my part.

I'm not sure what the story is there. I plan on getting to the bottom of this if I can, consequences be damned. :)

Derek

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by littlehorn


Most of the folks I have talked to feel that Durgy was effectively ruled out as a suspect, just an odd coincidence. For one thing, the timeline is off, as Durgy was on his way home with his family to Ann Arbor at the time Aardsma was killed.


Bit off topic, but ever heard that.



Oddly enough, the author of that article seems very frightened of either a lawsuit or some other unnamed consequence and has not been too open. He said he feels he is about 33% sure of who he suspects did it, but he's been very evasive about talking about it, despite repeated assurances of confidentiality on my part.


The only others that I've heard mentioned were:

1. Ted Bundy (I don't think he's too much of a threat). http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/1989/11/11-28-89tdc/11-28-89dnews-02.asp

2. A hypothetical "drifter" who came in from the then newly opened I-80. I read the story in the Collegian more than a decade after the crime. I was quite young when it happened and don't remember it; that newspaper story was the first time I remember hearing about it.

[littlehorn]

JJ,

You mention off-topic, and I must say, I was afraid I might have posted this in the wrong thread. Is there a better place I should be having this conversation? :) I am a newcomer here and don't want to upset anyone.

I heard the Bundy rumor too, but everything I've read about Bundy leads me to believe it wasn't him. Not his style, as it were.

The hypothetical drifter from I-80 is an interesting one that I had not heard. That would make it nearly impossible to ever solve the case.

It seems very calculated though for it to have been someone just rolling in off the highway.

Regards,

Derek

[J. J. in Phila]

I'm not exactly sure how to start a new subheading thingy. :)

I'm not too sure if this is a place to be discussing a 38 year old murder case.

As for its relationship to the RFG case:

1. The murder took place in RFG's jurisdiction, but 16 years roughly to him becoming DA and 11 years before he lived there.

2. RFG helped out West with the research for 20/20 Vision.

3. RFG discussed the book with the then PSP Trooper (corporal, I think) who was then head of the case, after it was published. The trooper is deceased.

4. Exceptionally few people knew #2 and #3. That didn't come out until the first story had run. West wasn't close to RFG and hadn't communicate him since before July 1990.

For myself, that's not much, but it is interesting.

If you're asking if the same person that killed Aardsma killed RFG, I'd doubt it. If RFG was murdered there is a quite dissimilar MO, and that it would be exceptionally hard for a killer to have found out about the links between 20/20 Vision and RFG.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by grammybear
The issue of the drifter sounds like a little out there. How would this drifter know exactly where to find this girl? That would be too coincidental.

How awful for her poor family to have gone through this for the last 30 years. [/*]

It's closer to 40 years (39 in November, actually). :( She was engaged at the time; her fiancé had an alibi, BTW.

I don't really subscribe to any theory, but it might have been a random act, hence the drifter. It was a theory that was floated at one point.

I've actually been in the stacks at Pattee Library, and it would have easily possible for a drifter to enter, in those days. It might not be quite so easy now.

There were two other missing persons in the area over the 25 years prior to RFG's vanishing. A bartender outside of Bellefonte in the late 1980's or early 1990's and Penn State student Cindy Song in 2000. No trace has yet to be found of either.

[littlehorn]

One problem with the random theory is that Aardsma was wearing a very nice red dress when she was murdered. Basically, on the afternoon of the murder, when she was scheduled later to go out to see a movie with friends, she was dressed for church.

It makes you wonder if she was meeting or had plans to meet someone she knew.

There was another oddity of the case, that being that less than two months later, a man similar in description tried to force his way into the 415 S. Atherton St. apartment of another coed who was home at the time, but she fought him off. He was never caught either. Seems like the possible beginning of a spree, and its aborted end when he realized he wasn't as slick as he thought.

If you look at the police sketches of both men they are strikingly similar.

I can't seem to find out who is in charge of the Aardsma case now. I am trying to interest the Vidocq society, but they will only take case recommendations from next of kin or with the blessing of the law enforcement in charge of the case. Betsy's parents are dead, and I can't get ahold of the person in charge of the case.

Derek

[Chump#7]

415 S. Atherton St

Wow! I lived at that address for 5 years and never knew that. Wow...

[littlehorn]

Yes, that happened in January 1970.

[Chump#7]

Originally posted by littlehorn
Yes, that happened in January 1970. [/*]

...Heh, I wasn't born yet. The building is commonly called 'Atherton House', 3 floors (A, *, & C), 8 units a floor, front and rear entrance/stairwells, with a parking garage underneath.

[J. J. in Phila]

I'm not sure if she was dressed for church. November 28, 1969 was a Friday, the day after Thanksgiving. She was wearing what was described as her "Sunday-best clothes."

She did have a sister, according to the article.

[sherrijean981]

Does anyone have a link to the photo's submitted to the paper of the one man?

[Nitt]

Here's a link to some composite drawings.

http://www.statecollegemagazine.com/home_pages/Betsy/composites.html

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by Nitt
Here's a link to some composite drawings.

http://www.statecollegemagazine.com/home_pages/Betsy/composites.html [/*]

Very interesting. It could have been the killer or a witness.

I'm still wondering about Professor Durgy. He actually left on Thanksgiving Day and I'm wondering if he had all his stuff out of Bellefonte on that day.

[Cloudbuster]

Originally posted by grammybear
I had never heard of this case before. Thanks for bringing it to our attention. My only thought right now is that it had to have been someone knwn to Betsy because of the close contact when she was killed. It could be someone she knew who had anger issues that took it out on Betsy for what ever reason. The issue of the drifter sounds like a little out there. How would this drifter know exactly where to find this girl? That would be too coincidental. Also you would think that in the past 30 years there would have been other murders along the way with the same profile.

This sounds to me like it was very personal.

How awful for her poor family to have gone through this for the last 30 years. [/*]

Do you know if Betsy had a interest in writing a dossier or manuscript on anyone? Im asking because in a article I read her mom said Betsy had many interests. Just seems to me a new avenue road to look at. Also is the Library open to the public or just students?

[Cloudbuster]

Here are some links I found, sorry if any are repeats.
http://poeticallychallanged.blogspot.com/2007/04/tuesday-morning-internet-browsing-led.html
http://www.statecollegemagazine.com/home_pages/Betsy/who_killed_aardsma.html
http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:G_9hFt5mm_gJ:www.statecollegemagazi ne.com/aardsma+%22Betsy+Aardsma%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us&client=firefox-a
http://www.statecollegemagazine.com/home_pages/Betsy/aardsma_ghost.html
http://www.statecollegemagazine.com/home_pages/Betsy/composites.html
http://146.186.194.36/archive/2005/09/09-21-05tdc/09-21-05dops-letter-04.asp

It is eeery how she died. Seems like she was into something that she was researching and that someone was looking at it as something they didn't want out. It feels like to me the person was not your average student but yet someone who fitted in with the others. I usually run on what things feel like.:rose:

[J. J. in Phila]

It might be well to move this to "Old Cases."

I know in 1990's, if you had a valid Alumni Associated card, you could use just about any college library in PA. I was able to use the U Penn library.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by birdgirl1200


While I was able to roam the library, I doubt if I would have been able to use any of their services since I was a non student. Nobody cared if I just looked while I was there.

I once had an old desk from Pattee. My ex husband has it now. [/*]

I think at least some services are available for alumni.

In the 1980's, they basically didn't have guards standing in front of buildings. In some places, security has changed greatly, especially after 9/11, and I don't know if Penn State is one of those places.

[littlehorn]

I have registered a domain name and will shortly begin creating a website which I hope will generate some new leads in this case.

Please bookmark if you have interest in the case and pass it on. Should have something up in the next day or two.

www.whokilledbetsy.com

Thanks,

Derek

[littlehorn]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila

I'm still wondering about Professor Durgy. He actually left on Thanksgiving Day and I'm wondering if he had all his stuff out of Bellefonte on that day. [/*]

It seems as though Durgy would have had to have been secondary to the murder, though, in the sense that he was physically on the road with his wife and child at the time. So he would have had to have asked/paid/?? someone into committing the actual crime.

I'd like to know what was causing Durgy so much stress. Although, having been a teacher, it's not uncommon to feel that way. It's entirely possible that teaching at PSU so far from his roots was just too much for him. I walked away from a teaching job last year because there was just too much crap around it.

Derek

[littlehorn]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster
It is eeery how she died. Seems like she was into something that she was researching and that someone was looking at it as something they didn't want out. It feels like to me the person was not your average student but yet someone who fitted in with the others. I usually run on what things feel like.:rose: [/*]

No one has ever fully explained what the research project she was working on entailed, so you might be on to something. I am starting to suspect the killer was someone who was in the college milieu; perhaps another student, but more likely an employee or adjunct of some sort.

Derek

www.whokilledbetsy.com -- coming soon

[littlehorn]

Does anyone know how to get into contact with Pamela West? I know RG had urged her to investigate the case for a possible book; perhaps while she was receiving his official assistance she was privy to more information than a normal person might have been able to get ahold of.

She seems to have been a very *-grade author, as it appears she only did the one book and it doesn't seem very popular. I had to dig quite a bit to even find a link to where it could be purchased.

Derek

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by littlehorn
Does anyone know how to get into contact with Pamela West? I know RG had urged her to investigate the case for a possible book; perhaps while she was receiving his official assistance she was privy to more information than a normal person might have been able to get ahold of.

She seems to have been a very *-grade author, as it appears she only did the one book and it doesn't seem very popular. I had to dig quite a bit to even find a link to where it could be purchased.

Derek [/*]

I found the book on line very easily and had it within a couple days. Through Amazon.com and it came through a store in NY.

My thoughts on the book, has the professor in the book into music. I thought the professor she was doing a project for said it was into researching. She was on the level with poetry. Was she researching an author, or story in poetry?

Links I have read on Ms Aardsmaa have most of her class in the library for her one class. Were they doing a research on the same line or each to do a different research?

I also found a couple more items that could have related to RG's disappearance or walkaway, than was mentioned by Det. Rickard or Pete Bosak. Such as RayBan Sun Glasses, (RG's were sunglasses were missing), a mention of purple irises and lilacs flowers, (there were daffodils) found in Lewisburg when RG went missing. The BMW in the book and RG's Mini Cooper being made by BMW. The mention of ashes in an urn of a deceased professor, (ashes found in the Mini), a mention of a road along a canal going to a cemetery, and part of the Susquehanna had a canal running along it. Just a few things I noted in the book.

I know RG talked with her about Aardsmaa case and her doing a book, a fiction, but I wonder if she got the one paragraph in the book from him? His words or hers? Did RG tell her what he thought a perfect crime was?

Quote from "20/20 Vision" by Pamela West, August 1990:

"To be a perfect crime, certain elements must all be there, certain clues visible in plain sight. The criminal must be masterly; he must not only get away with it, but he must do so with public abetment. All the discrepancies must be ironed out, but the ending, neverless, must be ambigious. There are strict canons that must be met, rules that must be satisfied before the case even comes to our notice. The work must act as an infinity of mirrors, interpretable to different people in different ways and on many levels. The problem is in judging. What is art? What is perfect?" Quote

[Cloudbuster]

Another suggestion is to try to garnish any information from this site below, being its a state college forum. The folks are not as nice as here but it can still lead to some tips. I started a thread for you with a link to your new website.

http://www.statecollege.com/townhall/viewtopic.php?t=4256
http://www.statecollege.com/townhall/viewforum.php?f=1

[littlehorn]

Thanks for the thread starter. I'll be sure to bookmark over there so I check there regularly as well.

Derek

[littlehorn]

Nice bunch! Looks like they already deleted the topic you started for me. I clicked the link and it said "Thread or topic does not exist." ??

Derek

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by littlehorn


She seems to have been a very *-grade author, as it appears she only did the one book and it doesn't seem very popular. I had to dig quite a bit to even find a link to where it could be purchased.

Derek [/*]

No, I don't have her contact information, but I kind of have the feeling that she has visited this site.

She did publish several other novels, at least one about Jack the Ripper (I don't think he's a suspect either). The link is here:
http://www.amazon.com/Yours-Truly-jack-Pamela-West/dp/0440202590

I actually thought 20/20 Vision was good science fiction.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by littlehorn


It seems as though Durgy would have had to have been secondary to the murder, though, in the sense that he was physically on the road with his wife and child at the time. So he would have had to have asked/paid/?? someone into committing the actual crime.


I'm not sure. It's about a six hour trip, today, but a holiday in 1969, I don't know. The question is, was he accounted for?

[Nitt]

Originally posted by littlehorn
JJ,



Most of the folks I have talked to feel that Durgy was effectively ruled out as a suspect, just an odd coincidence. For one thing, the timeline is off, as Durgy was on his way home with his family to Ann Arbor at the time Aardsma was killed.

[/*]

I find it difficult to believe that it was just an "odd coincidence". Is it possible that Aardsma and Durgy were having an affair? Maybe she threatened to tell his wife and that's why he wanted her silenced.

I'm just theorizing here, of course, but she was dressed like she was going to meet someone special. Durgy and Aardsma arrived in State College around the same time. He "can't handle" things and leaves town shortly after her death and then he dies in a mysterious accident. Too much to just chalk up to coincidence.

[littlehorn]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila


No, I don't have her contact information, but I kind of have the feeling that she has visited this site.

She did publish several other novels, at least one about Jack the Ripper (I don't think he's a suspect either). The link is here:
http://www.amazon.com/Yours-Truly-jack-Pamela-West/dp/0440202590

I actually thought 20/20 Vision was good science fiction. [/*]

It just seemed to me from what I found that she hadn't done a whole lot, or what she did was hard to find.

Regards,

Derek

[littlehorn]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila


I'm not sure. It's about a six hour trip, today, but a holiday in 1969, I don't know. The question is, was he accounted for? [/*]

According to the timeline here:

http://www.statecollegemagazine.com/home_pages/Betsy/timeline.html
He actually left on November 27th.

As far as I understand, he never returned to the State College area.

It would be interesting to talk to whoever he saw for "counselling" to see if they had any insight. However, as I understand it the police completely ruled him out, even going so far as to interview him in Michigan.

Derek

[Nitt]

Originally posted by littlehorn
I have registered a domain name and will shortly begin creating a website which I hope will generate some new leads in this case.

Please bookmark if you have interest in the case and pass it on. Should have something up in the next day or two.

www.whokilledbetsy.com

Thanks,

Derek [/*]

I have it bookmarked, Derek, and can't wait to see what you add to the site.

[littlehorn]

Originally posted by Nitt


I find it difficult to believe that it was just an "odd coincidence". Is it possible that Aardsma and Durgy were having an affair? Maybe she threatened to tell his wife and that's why he wanted her silenced.[/*]

It's entirely possible. However, we will never know that for sure, as both of the people who were involved in it directly are dead. I believe Durgy's wife has since passed also. If Aardsma and Durgy were having an affair, it's not something that has ever been brought up by any of her friends or roommates, so she must have been tight-lipped about it if it was occurring.

Derek

[littlehorn]

Originally posted by Nitt


I have it bookmarked, Derek, and can't wait to see what you add to the site. [/*]

Thanks. I hope I am able to help solve this case in some way. Sometimes I wonder if I am doing the right thing trying to dredge up something that has been quiet for so long. But it just bothers me that, if the murderer WASN'T Durgy, he has had a free pass for the last 40 years.

Regards,

Derek

[Nitt]

True. And even if it WAS Durgy, the case needs closure.

[littlehorn]

Originally posted by Nitt
True. And even if it WAS Durgy, the case needs closure. [/*]

Agreed. Although your guess is as good as mine as to how to provide that if Durgy was the killer. ;)

Let's try this again at the state college forums:

http://www.statecollege.com/townhall/viewtopic.php?p=41314#41314

Regards.

[Cloudbuster]

littlehorn your link is still up on the state college board and I don't know why they deleted mine but lets hope yours stays up. I can see why you want some closure to this. I have a old case in my family that has never been resolved. My cousin was killed and dumped into a creek when I was 14 and he was one week from his 16th birthday. At first the police said it was foul play from all the brusies he had then later retracked it to accidental drowning in a swallow creek???? it was a small police force and I honestly feel they just didn't want the headaches and consumpution of time that it would involve. Back then in school I would hear always the same thing about a african american man who killed my cousin. Made a example out of him. :shrug: The family still wonders what really happened the week he was missing and how he really ended up in a creek. My cousin could swim thats the kicker.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by Nitt


I find it difficult to believe that it was just an "odd coincidence". Is it possible that Aardsma and Durgy were having an affair? Maybe she threatened to tell his wife and that's why he wanted her silenced.

I'm just theorizing here, of course, but she was dressed like she was going to meet someone special. Durgy and Aardsma arrived in State College around the same time. He "can't handle" things and leaves town shortly after her death and then he dies in a mysterious accident. Too much to just chalk up to coincidence. [/*]

Maybe the wife already knew?

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila


No, I don't have her contact information, but I kind of have the feeling that she has visited this site.

She did publish several other novels, at least one about Jack the Ripper (I don't think he's a suspect either). The link is here:
http://www.amazon.com/Yours-Truly-jack-Pamela-West/dp/0440202590

I actually thought 20/20 Vision was good science fiction. [/*]

I am not into science fiction but the mystery was good, going back and forth in time. I was hooked on it from the start and couldn't put it down.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by Nitt


I find it difficult to believe that it was just an "odd coincidence". Is it possible that Aardsma and Durgy were having an affair? Maybe she threatened to tell his wife and that's why he wanted her silenced.

I'm just theorizing here, of course, but she was dressed like she was going to meet someone special. Durgy and Aardsma arrived in State College around the same time. He "can't handle" things and leaves town shortly after her death and then he dies in a mysterious accident. Too much to just chalk up to coincidence. [/*]

Just a thought, but it was 1969. It wasn't long before that, the schools in the area would not let the young ladies wear pants/slacks to school. I graduated from PVHS in 1966 and we were restricted from wearing them at that time. I know "hippies" were in the college in 1969 but not all young ladies dressed that way. She could have been wearing a dress to go to an activity on campus, a movie or dinner.

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by littlehorn


According to the timeline here:

http://www.statecollegemagazine.com/home_pages/Betsy/timeline.html
He actually left on November 27th.

As far as I understand, he never returned to the State College area.

It would be interesting to talk to whoever he saw for "counselling" to see if they had any insight. However, as I understand it the police completely ruled him out, even going so far as to interview him in Michigan.

Derek [/*]

When saying Durgy couldn't handle things, could it have had anything to do with the Vietnam War? Being drafted or seeing the young people who were leaving? Had he been a veteran, suffered from it? Just a thought of what was going on at that time.

[Cinderella]

For anyone interested in the Betsy Aardsma case here is a link to the Daily Collegian.

I also think constantly of Dana Bailey.

http://digitalnewspapers.libraries.psu.edu/Default/Skins/collegian/Client.asp?skin=collegian&AppName=2&AW=1205902439453

[littlehorn]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster
littlehorn your link is still up on the state college board and I don't know why they deleted mine but lets hope yours stays up. I can see why you want some closure to this. I have a old case in my family that has never been resolved. My cousin was killed and dumped into a creek when I was 14 and he was one week from his 16th birthday. At first the police said it was foul play from all the brusies he had then later retracked it to accidental drowning in a swallow creek???? it was a small police force and I honestly feel they just didn't want the headaches and consumpution of time that it would involve. Back then in school I would hear always the same thing about a african american man who killed my cousin. Made a example out of him. :shrug: The family still wonders what really happened the week he was missing and how he really ended up in a creek. My cousin could swim thats the kicker. [/*]

That is a shame. It always pains me to hear about cases like that. You are not alone though -- seems like many end up like this.

Derek

[littlehorn]

Originally posted by sherrijean981


When saying Durgy couldn't handle things, could it have had anything to do with the Vietnam War? Being drafted or seeing the young people who were leaving? Had he been a veteran, suffered from it? Just a thought of what was going on at that time. [/*]

Exactly, the fact that he couldn't "face his students" anymore could have been related to a wide variety of personal or societal pressures.

Derek

[littlehorn]

Originally posted by sherrijean981


Just a thought, but it was 1969. It wasn't long before that, the schools in the area would not let the young ladies wear pants/slacks to school. I graduated from PVHS in 1966 and we were restricted from wearing them at that time. I know "hippies" were in the college in 1969 but not all young ladies dressed that way. She could have been wearing a dress to go to an activity on campus, a movie or dinner. [/*]

You make an excellent point. She was supposed to go to a movie later with her friends -- perhaps she didn't feel like going home to change, but instead thought she would research for awhile, then head right to meet her friends.

One thing I think that must be addressed re: the Durgy connection is the fact that the human mind hates chaos. It is the innate human instinct to look for complex patterns, order, and reason.

There is a classic example in a list of similarities between Kennedy and Lincoln that people put forth to "prove" that both were somehow linked before their assassinations. Kennedy had a secretary whose last name was Lincoln; Lincoln had one whose name was Kennedy. That sort of thing.

The essential fact is that in most cases where the victim knew the assailant and there was some kind of intense relationship/anger/etc., overkill is usually found in the method of the murder. If you are so angry at someone that you want to kill them, you likely would not stop with one stab. The killer wouldn't necessarily know that the would would kill her. Typically there are multiple stab wounds/beatings/etc. in a relationship like that.

It is much harder for us to fathom, but perhaps Aardsma was chosen completely at random. Perhaps her red dress caught the killer's eye. Perhaps she reminded him of someone that he knew. Maybe he was just having a bad freakin' day, and snapped. Hard to say.

One of the problems with this case is that there are so many linked coincidental events that it leads itself to speculation of the sort that we have read about in articles. "Durgy was a possible serial killer in Ann Arbor, etc."

This clouds the facts and make it harder to separate truth from human fallibility when studying the case.

Derek

[littlehorn]

Originally posted by Cinderella
[
I also think constantly of Dana Bailey.
[/*]

One thing that puzzles me about the State College area is the fact that they seem to have a statistically high number of unsolved murders compared to other areas.

For example, in York PA we've got a couple of murders every few weeks. Most are solved quickly and without fanfare. Even highly random ones like drug deals gone bad/drivebys/etc. where the nature of the crime is such that the victim may be the only one who knew they were going to visit the killer, etc.

State College seems to have one every 15-20 years or so and they never really get solved.

I'm not knocking the police up there, they have as hard a job if not harder than anyone. But what I don't understand is the lack of ability to solve something. When a crime happens in "the street," most witnesses are uncooperative at best, due to the fear of retaliation/family ties to the killer/etc.

When a crime happens in a place like State College, one would think anyone not directly complicit in the crime would have at least a passing interest in assisting police in any way that they could. Instead it seems as though these cases get quashed/brushed under the rug and linger on and on.

Dana Bailey for example. Beaten to death in her apartment. You never hear about her anymore. When I question folks about the Aardsma case, it sometimes seems as though they are more interested in changing the subject than discussing the facts. I don't get it.

Derek

[littlehorn]

Originally posted by littlehorn


Let's try this again at the state college forums:

http://www.statecollege.com/townhall/viewtopic.php?p=41314#41314

Regards. [/*]

No big surprise, but the post got pulled from State College.com again. I'm just going to say it here, out loud and for the record: what a bunch of Nazi f***s.

When I posted it there were six other spam posts behind me about "asian midget porn" and crap. Those were still there. But a legitimate post that brings up a bad memory is silenced, not once, but twice?

God Bless America.

[Cloudbuster]

littlehorn your right!!! Why would they leave the sleazy crap up and remove Betsy, something worth conversation? Wonder why Joe * the moderator would do something like that? Your also right it seems like state college cases go unsolved and I like you don't understand why that is?

[sherrijean981]

I was doing research on line and I was in a file on 1969. There was a mention of a man getting 2 1/2 - 5 years for accessory to a murder of a PSU student. The other man was charged with 2nd degree murder but that article didn't mention how long he got in prison. The murder happened in 1967 and it was "supposedly" over the victim's wife.

So there is some closure on them.

[Cinderella]

Originally posted by littlehorn


No big surprise, but the post got pulled from State College.com again. I'm just going to say it here, out loud and for the record: what a bunch of Nazi f***s.

When I posted it there were six other spam posts behind me about "asian midget porn" and crap. Those were still there. But a legitimate post that brings up a bad memory is silenced, not once, but twice?

God Bless America. [/*]


I could bet the reason why the Betsy post was removed. A lot of the students post on there and Penn State probably wants to keep it as quiet as possible. They might think that pranks will start where she was killed and if they are still checking it out, that might interrupt their plans. They might also be trying to keep it quiet because it is not good for publicity. I hope that they removed it for the right reason as trying to still catch the person. Thinking that the person may be back.

If I would be you, I would ask the site manager why the post was removed twice.

[littlehorn]

Originally posted by Cinderella

I could bet the reason why the Betsy post was removed. A lot of the students post on there and Penn State probably wants to keep it as quiet as possible. They might think that pranks will start where she was killed and if they are still checking it out, that might interrupt their plans. They might also be trying to keep it quiet because it is not good for publicity. I hope that they removed it for the right reason as trying to still catch the person. Thinking that the person may be back.
[/*]

Cind,

I'd like to believe you are right about them wanting to still try to catch the person. Unfortunately, I have a feeling not. My father worked there for a few years in the 80s and he felt that PSU was VERY gestapo-like when it came to covering up things that did not put them in a good light. Not for the purpose of fixing them -- just to cover them up.

My high school was the same way.

Derek

[littlehorn]

Just wanted to add that I am personally going to put up money to offer a $2,000 reward to whoever can provide information leading to the arrest and conviction of the killer if he is still alive.

I have modified the website to reflect this.

I am hoping to have more online in a few days, I have been busy with work and not able to update the site.

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by littlehorn
Just wanted to add that I am personally going to put up money to offer a $2,000 reward to whoever can provide information leading to the arrest and conviction of the killer if he is still alive.

I have modified the website to reflect this.

I am hoping to have more online in a few days, I have been busy with work and not able to update the site. [/*]

That is great, but I doubt if it will help. The original reward $25,000, in 1969-70 dollars. It went unclaimed. :(

[littlehorn]

I know, but it's worth a shot. Perhaps back then someone was too afraid to talk, but might not be now.

[littlehorn]

Got everything up and running now. Links to newspaper articles in .mht format so you can read them just like you opened your Sunday paper.

Would be interested in hearing from anyone from this board who wants to talk off-board about this or Dana Bailey.

[littlehorn]

Just bumping this up. Any ideas are greatly appreciated as to how to find new information. I've reached somewhat of a stalling point here.

Derek

[tonyGricar]

2 points on this:

- I spoke to Ms. West for approximately an hour and in that time she conveyed to me that Ray actually had very little involvement with the book. Because of the open investigation, he actually could offer very little assistance.

- I've heard rumor that there is a self-published book in the works by an unnamed gentleman. Ever the cynic, I have a strong guess as to who it is.

[Serendipitous1]

Originally posted by tonyGricar <Snip>
I've heard rumor that there is a self-published book in the works by an unnamed gentleman. Ever the cynic, I have a strong guess as to who it is. Let me guess...JR, the Cleveland 'man-kisser'. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYt6RklOFQk

Go figure. I am sure it will be 'chock full' of insight. MOO

[day2day]

Originally posted by tonyGricar
2 points on this:


- I've heard rumor that there is a self-published book in the works by an unnamed gentleman. Ever the cynic, I have a strong guess as to who it is. [/*]

Hmmm...wanna share your guess? :D :seeya:

[Cloudbuster]

I wonder if it's Keisling?:confused:

[littlehorn]

Originally posted by tonyGricar
2 points on this:

- I spoke to Ms. West for approximately an hour and in that time she conveyed to me that Ray actually had very little involvement with the book. Because of the open investigation, he actually could offer very little assistance.

- I've heard rumor that there is a self-published book in the works by an unnamed gentleman. Ever the cynic, I have a strong guess as to who it is. [/*]

Tony,

Thanks for the information. I spoke to Ms. West tonight. I wasn't sure if there was any ability on the part of the DA to allow access to a case file or not. Thanks for clearing that up.

The book is here:

http://overbrookpress.com/?page_id=4

It is usually found on the 3rd or 4th page of a Google search for "betsy aardsma."

I was told I would receive some email in June or July when the book is released...?

If you'd care to email me Tony, I'd appreciate it... info@whokilledbetsy.com

Regards,

Derek

[littlehorn]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster
I wonder if it's Keisling?:confused: [/*]

Who is Keisling?

[Cloudbuster]

William Keisling
http://www.yardbird.com/midnight_ride_another_missing_PA_prosecutor_2.htm
He is a author that does self published books. The article in the above link is interesting.

[littlehorn]

Originally posted by Cloudbuster
William Keisling
http://www.yardbird.com/midnight_ride_another_missing_PA_prosecutor_2.htm
He is a author that does self published books. The article in the above link is interesting. [/*]

That was an interesting link. His writing certainly has a...flair to it. Sounds kind of like a nut, though, in a way. Very confrontational style, like Michael Moore without meds. ;)

Derek

[day2day]

Originally posted by littlehorn


That was an interesting link. His writing certainly has a...flair to it. Sounds kind of like a nut, though, in a way. Very confrontational style, like Michael Moore without meds. ;)

Derek [/*]

A nut? ...Seems there are quite a few around here...

:rolleyes:

edited ~~~ jmo as usual...

[littlehorn]

Originally posted by day2day


A nut? ...Seems there are quite a few around here...

:rolleyes:

edited ~~~ jmo as usual... [/*]

LOL, I would have to agree with that statement.

Regards,

Derek

[day2day]

Originally posted by littlehorn


LOL, I would have to agree with that statement.

Regards,

Derek [/*]

:D so happy to see the LOL!! Have a great day Derek!

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by littlehorn


Tony,

Thanks for the information. I spoke to Ms. West tonight. I wasn't sure if there was any ability on the part of the DA to allow access to a case file or not. Thanks for clearing that up.

The book is here:

http://overbrookpress.com/?page_id=4

It is usually found on the 3rd or 4th page of a Google search for "betsy aardsma."

I was told I would receive some email in June or July when the book is released...?

If you'd care to email me Tony, I'd appreciate it... info@whokilledbetsy.com

Regards,

Derek [/*]

I think the author of that should have checked his facts. In the first paragraph he is wrong about the streets of Howard. There was more than just 1 street in Howard and had been in 1969. One street came from Milesburg but in 1972 was wiped out by the flood. Rt 150 intersection with Walnut St, goes through town and to Jacksonville Rd. Main St. is at the intersect with Walnut. By this map there are many more and I know a friend that lived on one of the side street off Walnut, in the late 60's.

http://maps.google.com/maps?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=HPIA,HPIA:2006-28,HPIA:en&q=Howard,+PA,+USA&um=1&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&resnum=1&ct=title

I will have to pass judgement on the book just by reading the excerpt, until I can read the whole book.

Another question. Was it Centre County Hospital in 1969, or still Bellefonte Hospital?

[Whispers]

1969-still in Bellefonte-called Willowbank Hospital

[sherrijean981]

Originally posted by Whispers
1969-still in Bellefonte-called Willowbank Hospital [/*]

Thanks. My last child was born there in 1969 and I couldn't remember what it was called. Brain freeze. :)

[littlehorn]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sherrijean981


I think the author of that should have checked his facts. In the first paragraph he is wrong about the streets of Howard. There was more than just 1 street in Howard and had been in 1969. One street came from Milesburg but in 1972 was wiped out by the flood. Rt 150 intersection with Walnut St, goes through town and to Jacksonville Rd. Main St. is at the intersect with Walnut. By this map there are many more and I know a friend that lived on one of the side street off Walnut, in the late 60's.

Sherrijean, that's an interesting point. Thanks for pointing that out!

Derek

[littlehorn]

Anyone from this area remember an old schoolhouse on Waddle Road? I'm sure it's been torn down for all the commercial development that's been done here.

If you remember it or the address I'd appreciate it. It's something I recall from living up there in the 1980s.

Derek

[J. J. in Phila]

I remember Waddle (it's a hard name to forget), but not a school house.

[littlehorn]

Originally posted by J. J. in Phila
I remember Waddle (it's a hard name to forget), but not a school house. [/*]

Thanks, it would have been quite a few years ago. I'm not sure when all the changes starting to take place to that section of road, but depending when that started, if it was in the first batch of places to go, it may have been 20 years or more.

Derek

[J. J. in Phila]

Originally posted by littlehorn


Thanks, it would have been quite a few years ago. I'm not sure when all the changes starting to take place to that section of road, but depending when that started, if it was in the first batch of places to go, it may have been 20 years or more.

Derek [/*]

There is a place name "Waddle" near wher I remember the sign. It is off [north] of 220 about 3-4 west of State College. It's on Buffalo Run Road.

I don't recall ever having been there, but I drove past the sign numerous times. The dog we had at the time got fat and we called him "Waddles." The sign always made me think of him.

[littlehorn]

Thanks, I will have to check that out. There may be some information I can glean from going there.

Derek