Thursday * 03-13-08 * a.m.

[henry]

good morning . . . like to make "last call" on the questions thread - i see it hasn't been closed yet. for your info, when the questions were compiled, each poster's name was removed from their particular question so there would be an objective, non-partisan basket to sort thru . . . hah i didn't use the word "bag" and it's been great not having to put on my flack jacket. since spring starts next week - let's pray that cesar has been captured by then and doesn't get to smell the flowers. oh, and the st. paddy's day parades start saturday - check your local listings for the one nearest you!

[henry]

i don't know how many of you have been following the postings of eddie . . . but his father has posted a new one:

Many of the readers of the New Media Journal were introduced to Eddie last February 1, 2007 with his now famous article “Hope Rides Alone.” Within an hour of Frank Salvato publishing Eddie’s article I began receiving dozens of emails daily for 3 weeks straight. Eddie had touched the heart strings of those who love our troops. Others were not so enamored with Eddie’s treatise and sent some pretty derisive comments; most dissenters questioned Eddie’s authorship with his being “only an infantryman.”
http://www.newmediajournal.us/guest/d_jeffers/2008/03122008.htm

[crymeariver2006]

O/T - Second suspect in Eve Carson murder was arrested this morning.

[CANDYKISSES]

A quick hello and another sad day to see Cesar is still on the run. Hopefully soon there will be some movement and the agents searching for him will get a break.

:patriot:

[Lynn Gweeny]

:seeya: Morning!

This was the video from a 5:00 p.m broadcast and phone interview with Congressman Turner on local wdtn.com from Tuesday. There was going to be an update about his concerns about Christina Laurean returning to active duty.

New Questions About Lauterbach’s Death (2:30) (3/11/08)

(Congressman Turner)

http://tinyurl.com/27ln8q


This was the only video 'update' I could find on the site which also talks about a further update on their 6:00 p.m. news last night (still searching for that, also).

New Information in the Maria Lauterbach Death (1:51) (3/12/08)

(Mary Lauterbach is speaking about the new Congressional investigation into her daughter’s death)

http://tinyurl.com/2enywf

[henry]

hah! wanted to see if anyone noticed . . . of course i expected you tooo AB. also, i can't get that link to open either - it's been a continuing problem with it . . . and i've got cable/optimumonline . . . is that bad?

[caejde]

Morning all! I am sorry I didn't get to come back last night and I didn't tell anyone 'goodnight'. I went to eat dinner and was going to come back online and never did. Oh well, have to catch up with last nights thread.

I wish Cesar would hurry and get caught.

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by old_lady
I can't get any videos to play from that newspaper or whatever it is. I don't know why.:( [/*]

Good morning old_lady. Just go to the main page and click on the small picture of Maria in the upper left hand corner for the video ... New Information in the Maria Lauterbach Death

http://www.wdtn.com/default.asp

For the video ... New Questions About Lauterbach’s Death, go to the link below and scroll down about 1/2 way and under Featured Video is where it is located. Hope that helps! (in fact, both videos can be found at the link below)

http://www.wdtn.com/Global/category.asp?C=99895&nav=menu590_2

[henry]

thanks LG - i was on the home page & it does work!!!! yahoo!!!!!

[caejde]

I know it was brought up last night and it was answered but here is what I found out about amniocentesis.

http://www.webmd.com/baby/guide/amniocentesis

Does not say it is used for DNA purposes, it is done usually between 15-18 weeks and it can cause preterm labor. It is done to look for some birth defects but it can also tell you the sex of the baby. But there is no mention that it's done for DNA purposes. Doesn't mean it can't be done but what I take from that is amnio is done only to determine birth defects. Very informative link. As to the cost...yes, it is expensive. But with Maria being active duty, she would not have incurred any of those costs.

Also, I don't know why this bugs me but it does. The Marine Corps did not make the mistake on Maria going to her 12/26 OB appointment. That was actually the Navy-and they do have civilians working in their office as well. Marine Corps do not have doctors. So, it was the OB's office that made the mistake and the Marine Corps just went based off of what they knew.

Due dates can be wrong. We don't know what Maria's cycle was like-whether it was regular or irregular. She very well could have been pregnant in May and the test could have been faulty, etc. It does happen. And that is why I asked early on if the OB's office would have done an internal sonogram at the initial confirmation visit to date the pregnancy. I know with my last pregnancy-which was back in 2006 they did (not military thought). They didn't with my son in 2001 when I was military but things could have changed. Anyway, I was told that doing an internal sonogram is better at dating than the 20 week sonogram. For example, at my initial, they said baby would be due Jan. 9. At 20 week, it was changed to Jan. 18. At my next appoitment, they changed it back to Jan. 10 and said "I don't know why it was changed. Based on the internal sonogram and LMP it wouldn't be Jan. 18". But I believe if she were pregnant in May she would have started experiencing symptoms alot earlier than the end of June. JMO based on my experiences of being pregnant.

[caejde]

Also, I do remember it being said-I believe in the Marine press conference and I will go look that up. But I believe it was said that trial counsel-meaning JAG-reported to the commander that they didn't have enough for charges. However, it was the commander that was intent on going to an Article 32.

Edited to add my thanks to Lynn: Lynn, thank you for finding that link last night about the uncle. Much appreciated!

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by caejde
Also, I do remember it being said-I believe in the Marine press conference and I will go look that up. But I believe it was said that trial counsel-meaning JAG-reported to the commander that they didn't have enough for charges. However, it was the commander that was intent on going to an Article 32.

Edited to add my thanks to Lynn: Lynn, thank you for finding that link last night about the uncle. Much appreciated! [/*]

You're welcome caejde. This is from the MC PC 1/15:

On October 22, 2007, the regimental commander submits a request for legal services requesting prosecutors review the investigation and provide a recommended Course of Action with an eye towards an Article 32 investigation. An Article 32 investigation allows for witnesses to testify under oath and subject to cross examination. An accused is present and represented by counsel.

On October 23rd, trial counsel discusses the case with the regimental commander.

On November 26, 2007 ... At this point in the alleged rape investigation, the regimental commander and trial counsel continue to discuss the evidence and the possible charges, if any, to prefer against Cpl Laurean. The regimental commander has not made a decision regarding what charges, if any, to prefer against Cpl Laurean and has not consulted with his Staff Judge Advocate. Cpl Laurean has not been detailed government defense counsel and no Article 32 hearing is scheduled as Cpl Laurean has not been charged with any offenses.

http://www.nbc17.com/midatlantic/ncn/news.apx.-content-articles-NCN-2008-01-15-0028.html

[strick10]

Lynn you're the best! Morning all. Maybe today will be the day that CL is captured and brought back alive.

[GentleBreeze]

I wonder what is causing the screen to widen this morning?

Does anyone know what causes that?

imoo

[caejde]

Originally posted by old_lady
It looks to me as though they hadn't made a decision yet. As to what charges to prefer, if any, against Cpl. laurean stands out to me.

They were looking at other charges which doesn't necessarily mean Rape was the only charge on the table.

Since they were waiting for DNA from the baby, there could be other charges coming out of that.

I do not believe this investigation is closed as of now.

JMO [/*]

They were waiting on the DNA of the baby. If the baby was proven to be his, it doesn't prove rape but it does prove that he had sex with her...which he denied. So, those charges would then be fraternization and adultery.

[caejde]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze
I wonder what is causing the screen to widen this morning?

Does anyone know what causes that?

imoo [/*]

I don't know what causes it. But it's aggravating.

[strick10]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze
I wonder what is causing the screen to widen this morning?

Does anyone know what causes that?

imoo [/*]

Glad to know I'm not the only one seeing a wide screen, thought it was my computer. Good morning GB.......

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by old_lady
It looks to me as though they hadn't made a decision yet. As to what charges to prefer, if any, against Cpl. laurean stands out to me.

They were looking at other charges which doesn't necessarily mean Rape was the only charge on the table.

Since they were waiting for DNA from the baby, there could be other charges coming out of that.

I don not believe this investigation is closed as of now.

JMO [/*]

I don't think so either, old_lady. I guess we can only go by what Mr. Cicarrelli said in the 1/11 PC:

CICCARELLI: IF she dropped them, then it wouldn't be an active investigation.

QUESTION: Is Corporal Lauren now facing charges in rape, still just an investigation or ...

CICCARELLI: The investigation is still active. Still open.


The other information Mr. Cicarrelli gave in the same PC was about the Article 32 hearing, but unfortunately there was no specific date given as to when exactly that was going to occur and if both Maria and Cesar were aware of it:

QUESTION: Mr. Ciccarelli, can you shed light on when she was supposed to testify or be involved again in the process?

CICCARELLI: Discussions were underway to have an Article 32. For those not familiar with an Article 32, it's equivalent to a civilian grand jury. Fact finding. Determine if there's enough information from the investigation to go forward with a court-martial. That's what was scheduled. An Article 32 on the sexual assault investigation.

QUESTION: Was there a date was there a date ...

CICCARELLI: It was during December.

QUESTION: During the time she disappeared?

CICCARELLI: Yes.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0801/11/ywt.01.html

[strick10]

Originally posted by caejde


They were waiting on the DNA of the baby. If the baby was proven to be his, it doesn't prove rape but it does prove that he had sex with her...which he denied. So, those charges would then be fraternization and adultery. [/*]

Let's not forget giving false statements.

[caejde]

Originally posted by old_lady



Maybe they were looking at Maria for the same charges because it was said she was facing a discharge. Maybe that is why she decided she had had it with the Marines and wanted to just leave. She reported an alleged rape only to have it turn around a bite her.

JMO [/*]

I don't think you get discharged for adultery or fraternization. Strick, can you shed some light on that since you were in longer than me? In my opinion, I think if he was charged with adultery and frat, he would have been reduced in rank, maybe restriction, something along those lines.

[caejde]

Originally posted by strick10


Let's not forget giving false statements. [/*]

Yep, I did forget that.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by caejde
I know it was brought up last night and it was answered but here is what I found out about amniocentesis.

http://www.webmd.com/baby/guide/amniocentesis

Does not say it is used for DNA purposes, it is done usually between 15-18 weeks and it can cause preterm labor. It is done to look for some birth defects but it can also tell you the sex of the baby. But there is no mention that it's done for DNA purposes. Doesn't mean it can't be done but what I take from that is amnio is done only to determine birth defects. Very informative link. As to the cost...yes, it is expensive. But with Maria being active duty, she would not have incurred any of those costs.

Also, I don't know why this bugs me but it does. The Marine Corps did not make the mistake on Maria going to her 12/26 OB appointment. That was actually the Navy-and they do have civilians working in their office as well. Marine Corps do not have doctors. So, it was the OB's office that made the mistake and the Marine Corps just went based off of what they knew.

Due dates can be wrong. We don't know what Maria's cycle was like-whether it was regular or irregular. She very well could have been pregnant in May and the test could have been faulty, etc. It does happen. And that is why I asked early on if the OB's office would have done an internal sonogram at the initial confirmation visit to date the pregnancy. I know with my last pregnancy-which was back in 2006 they did (not military thought). They didn't with my son in 2001 when I was military but things could have changed. Anyway, I was told that doing an internal sonogram is better at dating than the 20 week sonogram. For example, at my initial, they said baby would be due Jan. 9. At 20 week, it was changed to Jan. 18. At my next appoitment, they changed it back to Jan. 10 and said "I don't know why it was changed. Based on the internal sonogram and LMP it wouldn't be Jan. 18". But I believe if she were pregnant in May she would have started experiencing symptoms alot earlier than the end of June. JMO based on my experiences of being pregnant. [/*]
j


MORNIN'

Thank you for that information, Caejde:seeya:

[caejde]

Something else that was mentioned yesterday. And I know I responded to it, but I know there was still talk of it afterwards. I don't think not using any type of birth control proves rape or no rape. All it proves was Maria got pregnant. And as we all know, birth control is not 100% effective. And if everyone was conscious to use it, the teen pregnancy rate wouldn't be what it is and the STD rate wouldn't be what it is either...and this is not just for teens but for everyone.

[caejde]

Originally posted by bkwits

j


MORNIN'

Thank you for that information, Caejde:seeya: [/*]

Hi! Hope you're feeling better!

[caejde]

Originally posted by old_lady



I would think the Marine's could do just about anything they want. There may be a range of punishment to give out so I would think a discharge of some sort could be within that range.

jmoo [/*]

They do have certain guidelines. But my time in, I never saw one person get discharged for adultery or fraternization. And I would have known being I was in charge of personal effects. And they probably would have gotten out with an Other Than Honorable discharge. And if that was the case, they have to turn in all of their uniforms. And that was part of my job. And all the uniforms that were turned in to me were all drug related discharges.

[strick10]

Originally posted by caejde


I don't think you get discharged for adultery or fraternization. Strick, can you shed some light on that since you were in longer than me? In my opinion, I think if he was charged with adultery and frat, he would have been reduced in rank, maybe restriction, something along those lines. [/*]

I agree w/ you caejde. These would most likely not have ended eithers military service. Rank reduction, restriction and probably fines would be the end result.

[caejde]

I've been thinking about this the past couple of days. How did Sgt Durham know to contact anyone in Maria's family and how did he have their phone numbers?

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by caejde
I've been thinking about this the past couple of days. How did Sgt Durham know to contact anyone in Maria's family and how did he have their phone numbers? [/*]

Perhaps on her rental agreement she had to have listed a couple of emergency contact numbers, her sister being one, maybe. IIRC he called Maria's sister and then Mary called him. JMO

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by caejde
I've been thinking about this the past couple of days. How did Sgt Durham know to contact anyone in Maria's family and how did he have their phone numbers? [/*]

May have been something on the lease "In case of emergency contact"....or he could have already talked to the sister and the mother on another occasion right after she moved in.

:shrug:

[strick10]

Originally posted by caejde


They do have certain guidelines. But my time in, I never saw one person get discharged for adultery or fraternization. And I would have known being I was in charge of personal effects. And they probably would have gotten out with an Other Than Honorable discharge. And if that was the case, they have to turn in all of their uniforms. And that was part of my job. And all the uniforms that were turned in to me were all drug related discharges. [/*]

Absolutely caejde. As I've said before, it takes alot to to get kicked out. Drugs are on the top of the list. Which brings a question to mind. I know that because CL was married and living off base his personal effects wouldn't be collected by the MC w/ the exception of maybe his 782 gear. Now w/ Maria whom also lived off base would the MC be authorized to collect her personal effects? I just can't remember what the procedure for that is and since you probably remember right off the top of your head thought I'd ask.

[caejde]

True, wasn't thinking about the lease agreement. I don't remember if we ever had to put down that info.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by caejde


Hi! Hope you're feeling better! [/*]

I'm not sure, but I guess I am.:eek:

[martha]

Just wanted to say hi to everyone. got to do my taxes today so want be here long. To jas.s I did not mean to sound like I was just talking about men telling women a lot of stuff to get what they want. gosh women do it even more than men and we all know the men is the weaker sex when it comes to sex lol. I am sorry if it sounded like I was just blaming men. Women have broke up a lot of homes. it goes both way in my book :rose: I did not take it personal. Thanks jas.s for your point of view/:rose:

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


May have been something on the lease "In case of emergency contact"....or he could have already talked to the sister and the mother on another occasion right after she moved in.

:shrug: [/*]

Mornin' cryme! :seeya:

DD may have asked Maria to provide contact numbers, so you are probably right in your assumption. I also know that most rental contracts do require emergency contact numbers for that just in case moment.


O/T: Lovette has also been charged in the Duke grad student's murder and they are currently investigating whether Atwater was involved in that murder too.

JMO

[caejde]

Originally posted by strick10


Absolutely caejde. As I've said before, it takes alot to to get kicked out. Drugs are on the top of the list. Which brings a question to mind. I know that because CL was married and living off base his personal effects wouldn't be collected by the MC w/ the exception of maybe his 782 gear. Now w/ Maria whom also lived off base would the MC be authorized to collect her personal effects? I just can't remember what the procedure for that is and since you probably remember right off the top of your head thought I'd ask. [/*]

Yes, it would have and it was inventoried and turned into supply. And this is done because she did not have any dependents living with her that would take responsibility. Usually for deployments and such, all the married personnel that live on and off base sign a waiver stating they choose to not have it inventoried as it is being left with NOK, etc. And all the single ones in the barracks have to pack their stuff up and turn it in to supply.

[caejde]

Originally posted by old_lady


Would that occur before the investigation was complete and the article 32 hearing? [/*]

Would what occur?

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by strick10


Absolutely caejde. As I've said before, it takes alot to to get kicked out. Drugs are on the top of the list. Which brings a question to mind. I know that because CL was married and living off base his personal effects wouldn't be collected by the MC w/ the exception of maybe his 782 gear. Now w/ Maria whom also lived off base would the MC be authorized to collect her personal effects? I just can't remember what the procedure for that is and since you probably remember right off the top of your head thought I'd ask. [/*]

This is what was said in the 1/15 PC:

On December 28, 2007, as Sgt Durham is about to depart for training in California, and with Sgt Durham’s permission, the command inventories and boxes LCpl Lauterbach’s personal belongings at the residence in order to secure her property.

On Thursday, January 3rd, 2008, the command turns in LCpl Lauterbach’s inventoried gear to the supply warehouse. Supply re-inventories the gear and reports no discrepancies from the original inventory sheets.

On Thursday, January 10th, 2008, LCpl Lauterbach’s personal possessions are turned over to NCIS for delivery to Onslow County Sheriff’s Office.

http://www.nbc17.com/midatlantic/ncn/news.apx.-content-articles-NCN-2008-01-15-0028.html

[strick10]

Originally posted by old_lady


Would that occur before the investigation was complete and the article 32 hearing? [/*]

In this case, yes it would be done before the investigation was completed. I can't recall the timeframe that a unit is to collect a Marines personal effects after being listed as UA or otherwise gone, I want to say 24 hrs. but caedje can probably be more precise on that. Personal effects are gathered, inventoried and stored in secured area to prevent theft etc.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by caejde
Something else that was mentioned yesterday. And I know I responded to it, but I know there was still talk of it afterwards. I don't think not using any type of birth control proves rape or no rape. All it proves was Maria got pregnant. And as we all know, birth control is not 100% effective. And if everyone was conscious to use it, the teen pregnancy rate wouldn't be what it is and the STD rate wouldn't be what it is either...and this is not just for teens but for everyone. [/*]

I was in on that convo although not too coherent. What I meant was the pregnancy as a result of the rape (if it is) does not prove the rape. However, if Maria and CL were having a regular affair, it is likely that one or both would be using birth control.

So, it is not that the lack of birth control proves the rape, but it does add an element that makes an ongoing long term affair seem less likely. IMO

[caejde]

Originally posted by old_lady



Turning in uniforms and all their supplies.
One was still active and the other was only unauthorized leave for that time. Maybe I just don't understand.

jmoo [/*]

Uniforms are only turned in if you are receiving any discharge except for honorable. Anything other than honorable, bad conduct, or dishonorable requires you to turn in all of your issued uniforms.

Since Cesar is a deserter, his 782 gear has probably been turned back into supply. And if Cesar receives a bad conduct, other than honorable, or dishonorable he will be required to turn in his uniforms. I would love to be the one to take those away from him!

Maria's stuff-and this was uniforms and anything else that was occupying the apartment that was hers-was boxed up and turned into supply because it was considered unsecured since she had no NOK or dependents that would take care of it.

[nuttintodo]

As to whether the MC would charge either or both for adultery and lying, especially under oath, I would assume that is up to each individual unit. Doesn't everything begin at unit level? IIRC, MW5 stated that adultery and/or lying would make slow down their abilities to be promoted rather than kicking them out of the MC.

The way I understand it, the MC goes after officers more for fraternization, adultery and/or conduct unbecoming more so than NCO's and below. As a rule officer's are held to a much higher standard. (If my understanding is wrong, please let me know.)

JMO

[caejde]

Originally posted by strick10


In this case, yes it would be done before the investigation was completed. I can't recall the timeframe that a unit is to collect a Marines personal effects after being listed as UA or otherwise gone, I want to say 24 hrs. but caedje can probably be more precise on that. Personal effects are gathered, inventoried and stored in secured area to prevent theft etc. [/*]

I do believe that is the case. I believe it is 24 hours. However, the Marines waited a couple of weeks. And I think the reason is because Durham was still in the home at the time. The day they came to pack her stuff, was the same day he was leaving.

[Kel65]

Originally posted by strick10


I agree w/ you caejde. These would most likely not have ended eithers military service. Rank reduction, restriction and probably fines would be the end result. [/*]

I think it depends on the situation and the people in charge at the time. Some superior officers take the easy road and others are more viglient regarding punitive measures. If there was lying involved along with the adultery and frat, that certainly complicates things. Disobeying "no contact orders", especially more than once demonstrates a disdain for authority and can be perceived as prejudicial to good order.

1stLt Kelly Flinn (some of you all may remember that fiasco in the late 1990s) after much publicity was only afforded a general under honorable condition vs. the honorable she sought for adultery complicated by disobeying "no contact orders" and lying.

I personally know of a USAF Captain who was forced out of the USAF in lieu of charges being brought against him for adultery and disobeying more than one no contact order issued by two different commanders. While investigating the matter, he was removed from undergraduate pilot training and assigned to report to duty at the base chapel . Leave records and cell phone telephone activity proved that he deliberately disregarded 2 "no contact orders". He didn't get in trouble for lying because he pleaded the fifth whenever he was questioned by superiors and legal. I'm sure pleading the fifth said enough and probably pissed off the commander enough to get rid of the bozo. This guy threw away a promising careeer, all in the name of love for a person who cheated on him before and has a known and self admitted lying problem.

[caejde]

Originally posted by bkwits


I was in on that convo although not too coherent. What I meant was the pregnancy as a result of the rape (if it is) does not prove the rape. However, if Maria and CL were having a regular affair, it is likely that one or both would be using birth control.

So, it is not that the lack of birth control proves the rape, but it does add an element that makes an ongoing long term affair seem less likely. IMO [/*]

Ok, gotcha. But even if they were having a regular affair, I don't think it means they would have thought about birth control. Look at the STD and teen pregnancy statistics. My opinion though.

[caejde]

Originally posted by old_lady


Thank you I understand now. You made it clear and I appreciate that. I was kinda lost for a moment.:) [/*]

Sure. I forget sometimes that not everyone understand military stuff. So, I apologize for that.

[strick10]

Originally posted by nuttintodo
As to whether the MC would charge either or both for adultery and lying, especially under oath, I would assume that is up to each individual unit. Doesn't everything begin at unit level? IIRC, MW5 stated that adultery and/or lying would make slow down their abilities to be promoted rather than kicking them out of the MC.

The way I understand it, the MC goes after officers more for fraternization, adultery and/or conduct unbecoming more so than NCO's and below. As a rule officer's are held to a much higher standard. (If my understanding is wrong, please let me know.)

JMO [/*]

Right o nuttin. Everything does begin at the unit level. MW5 is right as well. Yes the MC goes after officers and SNCO's at a harder degree for fraternization, adultry etc. The lower ranks are given less harsher punishments for certain things as opposed to the O's and SNCO's. Officers and SNCO's are held to a much higher standard, Officers a tad more than a SNCO.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by caejde
Something else that was mentioned yesterday. And I know I responded to it, but I know there was still talk of it afterwards. I don't think not using any type of birth control proves rape or no rape. All it proves was Maria got pregnant. And as we all know, birth control is not 100% effective. And if everyone was conscious to use it, the teen pregnancy rate wouldn't be what it is and the STD rate wouldn't be what it is either...and this is not just for teens but for everyone. [/*]

I also commented last night that the lack of birth control used by either party involved only proved that Maria became pregnant with Gabriel.

Yes ITA if bc was used more, especially by the teens of this world, it would cut down on the pregnancy rate and STD's but remember with the teens, it's just not 'cool' to use birth control.

JMO

[bkwits]

Originally posted by caejde


Ok, gotcha. But even if they were having a regular affair, I don't think it means they would have thought about birth control. Look at the STD and teen pregnancy statistics. My opinion though. [/*]



They were young but not children, Cesar was married with a child. I just think it is more likely that they would have used some form of birth control. I agree that it doesn't prove anything. JMO

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by caejde


Ok, gotcha. But even if they were having a regular affair, I don't think it means they would have thought about birth control. Look at the STD and teen pregnancy statistics. My opinion though. [/*]

Look at CAL, he knew what the lack of birth control would and could produce---after all he has a daughter. Probably in his mind, it's just not macho to use any type of birth control or he may think it's the woman's place to use birth control.

JMO

[caejde]

Originally posted by old_lady


I agree with that.

Especially a married man taking a chance with an unwanted pregnancy and/or disease in this day and time.

Also, I am sure a 20 year old girl would have enough sense not to mess up her military career. It is just a spur of the moment thing with no time for Cesar to even use birth control. Seems unlikely to me in a regular affair.

I think this would have been made available in the article 32 for consideration.

jmoo [/*]

Well I was 19 when I got pregnant and in the Marine Corps. Does not mess up your career at all!

[martha]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze
I wonder what is causing the screen to widen this morning?

Does anyone know what causes that?

imoo [/*]Good morning GB mine is doing that too. but don;t know why have a good day i will check back later and hope you all have good news by then. tax time lol:rose:

[strick10]

Originally posted by Kel65


I think it depends on the situation and the people in charge at the time. Some superior officers take the easy road and others are more viglient regarding punitive measures. If there was lying involved along with the adultery and frat, that certainly complicates things. Disobeying "no contact orders", especially more than once demonstrates a disdain for authority and can be perceived as prejudicial to good order.
~snipped~
[/*]

IMO an enlisted would not be given the same type of punishment as an officer. As with the civilian world there are maximum punishments that the MC can give a Marine if that Marine is found guilty. Now if all the things you mentioned above were charged against CAL and Maria then it is quite possible a discharge may be comtemplated. The adultry and frat alone probably no discharge. The false statements, disobeying the no contact order along w/ the adultry and frat and who knows what else possibly.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by martha
Good morning GB mine is doing that too. but don;t know why have a good day i will check back later and hope you all have good news by then. tax time lol:rose: [/*]

Hey Martha! Hope you have a lot of cash coming in after the taxes are completed! I dread doing mine.

As of now my screen is not wide on page 2 like it was on the first page.

:seeya:

[Kel65]

Originally posted by bkwits




They were young but not children, Cesar was married with a child. I just think it is more likely that they would have used some form of birth control. I agree that it doesn't prove anything. JMO [/*]


I don't believe Cesar was a rational kind of person and thought of anyone other than himself and what he wanted at the moment. Maybe Maria told him that she was not able to get pregnant or had it under control (birth control pills), assuming the sex was consensual.

Herpes and more so AIDS are pretty scary stuff. I would think this alone would decrease the amount of unwanted/unexpected pregnancy among teens and other sexually active people not intending to become pregnant through the use of condoms. Sadly I don't think it is so.


JMO

[strick10]

Originally posted by caejde


Well I was 19 when I got pregnant and in the Marine Corps. Does not mess up your career at all! [/*]

I'll vouch for that statement!

[bkwits]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Look at CAL, he knew what the lack of birth control would and could produce---after all he has a daughter. Probably in his mind, it's just not macho to use any type of birth control or he may think it's the woman's place to use birth control.

JMO [/*]

At this point we are not 100% sure that Gabriel was CL's son.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by Kel65

<snipped>

Herpes and more so AIDS are pretty scary stuff. I would think this alone would decrease the amount of unwanted/unexpected pregnancy among teens and other sexually active people not intending to become pregnant through the use of condoms. Sadly I don't think it is so.


JMO [/*]

Kel, it's the old that 'would never happen to me', that only 'happens to other people' attitude. No matter how much teaching, preaching, nagging or harping is done, you will always have those in the group who hold this attitude.

JMO

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by bkwits


At this point we are not 100% sure that Gabriel was CL's son. [/*]

Point taken and from now on I will simply say allegedly. And I will faint, after picking my jaw up off the floor if the report comes back and states the baby wasn't CAL's.

JMO

[bkwits]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Point taken and from now on I will simply say allegedly. And I will faint, after picking my jaw up off the floor if the report comes back and states the baby wasn't CAL's.

JMO [/*]

Yeah, me too. You know, I don't know why but I almost wish the baby's wasn't CL's.

[Kel65]

Originally posted by strick10


IMO an enlisted would not be given the same type of punishment as an officer. As with the civilian world there are maximum punishments that the MC can give a Marine if that Marine is found guilty. Now if all the things you mentioned above were charged against CAL and Maria then it is quite possible a discharge may be comtemplated. The adultry and frat alone probably no discharge. The false statements, disobeying the no contact order along w/ the adultry and frat and who knows what else possibly. [/*]

CAL probably lied about "no sexual" contact with ML when questioned by superiors. That won't be "officially" determined until or if paternity results are released in regard to Gabriel.

I think he probably was very well on his way to a dishonorable discharge due to lying that was due to sexual contact. Personally, I think his superiors would have concentrated more on the lying than the adultery. That is how I think most adultery cases (enlisted or officer) in the military escalate and end up blowing up peoples' careeers. Obviously disobeying "no contact orders" doesn't help anyone's future in the military either.

Maybe months ago CSL realized that CAL's future had little to no future (based on what he was facing) and she decided to request to be activated to be able to financially support her daughter and her financial obligations?


JMO

[Kel65]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Kel, it's the old that 'would never happen to me', that only 'happens to other people' attitude. No matter how much teaching, preaching, nagging or harping is done, you will always have those in the group who hold this attitude.

JMO [/*]

Yep. So true.

[henry]

regarding the wide screen . . . when i've been reading on other boards - a long link OR it could be AB's dots . . . imo

edit - oh crap - didn't realize you were already 2 pages beyond #1 . . . so my apologies for interrupting

[Regina.Lampert]

I've been thinking about something here. I always thought it odd that the mc gave laurean so much time to go and consult with his attorneys. But now since we have been reminded that the Article 32 hearing was indeed going forward perhaps he was given the time in preparation for that?

Also, in any other case in the civilian world if a witness for a grand jury disappeared right before it was held, that imo would
be deemed very suspicious. Very odd that it wasn't in the case of Maria. Sad too.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert
I've been thinking about something here. I always thought it odd that the mc gave laurean so much time to go and consult with his attorneys. But now since we have been reminded that the Article 32 hearing was indeed going forward perhaps he was given the time in preparation for that?

Also, in any other case in the civilian world if a witness for a grand jury disappeared right before it was held, that imo would
be deemed very suspicious. Very odd that it wasn't in the case of Maria. Sad too. [/*]


I agree, very sad that almost no one was looking out for her. JMO

[caejde]

Did want to post something I was given. It is a SNCO that was given a BCD-bad conduct discharge for adultery. However, there were other circumstances involved than just adultery. Her rank was also higher than Cesar's. It does happen, never said it didn't, just said it would depend on circumstances. And I also said I never saw it happened when I was in.

Gunnery Sgt. Gloria A. Medina, a member of Marine
Corps Combat Service Support Schools, Training
Command, was convicted of two counts of false
offi cial statement; two counts of adultery, one count
of misprision of serious offense. She was sentenced
to confi nement for a period of four months, a fi ne of
$10,000 or confi nement for eight months if fi ne not
paid; reduction to E-1 and a bad conduct discharge.

http://www.camplejeuneglobe.com/archives/e-edition/?haspdf=1

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert
I've been thinking about something here. I always thought it odd that the mc gave laurean so much time to go and consult with his attorneys. But now since we have been reminded that the Article 32 hearing was indeed going forward perhaps he was given the time in preparation for that?

Also, in any other case in the civilian world if a witness for a grand jury disappeared right before it was held, that imo would
be deemed very suspicious. Very odd that it wasn't in the case of Maria. Sad too. [/*]

Good point, Regina, but the reason that OCSD was wanting to interview Laurean was not because of the rape allegations, but as a possible WITNESS in the disappearance of Maria. IMO, since that was the focus by OCSD, he could have just as easily come to the interview with his attorney and answered just those questions, if that is possible. It's just always struck me that he needed so much time off for attorney consultation, which I'm sure wasn't for 8 or more hours of his working day. JMO

[caejde]

Originally posted by old_lady
Does anyone think the uncle was wrong when he said her mother was going to see Maria around the 24th of December to be there when the baby was born?

He also said she had some contractions and was 2cm dilated so the baby was ready to be born.

It sounds like the baby was due much sooner then was thought or said.

I have been thinking about this for a while now.

jmoo [/*]

You can dilate as early as 36 weeks and still not have a baby until 40 weeks. Also, contractions at her stage in pregnancy was more than likely Braxton Hicks.

[strick10]

Originally posted by caejde
Did want to post something I was given. It is a SNCO that was given a BCD-bad conduct discharge for adultery. However, there were other circumstances involved than just adultery. Her rank was also higher than Cesar's. It does happen, never said it didn't, just said it would depend on circumstances. And I also said I never saw it happened when I was in.

Gunnery Sgt. Gloria A. Medina, a member of Marine
Corps Combat Service Support Schools, Training
Command, was convicted of two counts of false
offi cial statement; two counts of adultery, one count
of misprision of serious offense. She was sentenced
to confi nement for a period of four months, a fi ne of
$10,000 or confi nement for eight months if fi ne not
paid; reduction to E-1 and a bad conduct discharge.

http://www.camplejeuneglobe.com/archives/e-edition/?haspdf=1 [/*]

Can we say see ya, wouldn't wanna be you!

[Regina.Lampert]

Originally posted by bkwits



I agree, very sad that almost no one was looking out for her. JMO [/*]

When you have time, could ya do a dusting and cleaning of your mailbox please? ;)

[caejde]

Originally posted by strick10


Can we say see ya, wouldn't wanna be you! [/*]

Was probably a student...

[Regina.Lampert]

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny


Good point, Regina, but the reason that OCSD was wanting to interview Laurean was not because of the rape allegations, but as a possible WITNESS in the disappearance of Maria. IMO, since that was the focus by OCSD, he could have just as easily come to the interview with his attorney and answered just those questions, if that is possible. It's just always struck me that he needed so much time off for attorney consultation, which I'm sure wasn't for 8 or more hours of his working day. JMO [/*]

You're right Lynn. Not only did they give him so much time off, it seemed to me he had to keep in touch with them.

[caejde]

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert


You're right Lynn. Not only did they give him so much time off, it seemed to me he had to keep in touch with them. [/*]

you're correct. His OIC informed him he needed to check in throughout the day.

[bkwits]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Regina.Lampert


When you have time, could ya do a dusting and cleaning of your mailbox please? ;) [/*][/QUOTE

I'm done cleaning. The dust is making me cough, though.

[Regina.Lampert]

Originally posted by caejde


you're correct. His OIC informed him he needed to check in throughout the day. [/*]

Thank you caejde. Is that SOP, or did it strike you as odd?

[Regina.Lampert]

Originally posted by old_lady


Is that normal? [/*]

:eek: You sure are quick for an old lady!!!


lol

[Kel65]

Originally posted by Jas.S
There is a huge difference in lying about never havibg sex and making false allegations, which is a crime, [/*]



I agree there is a difference, between lying and false allegations. I guess the word "huge" is relative.

Lying to a superior in the military is giving that person a false statement , which can be punishable under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. It is up to the superior to determine how he/she wants to pursue punishment. All I am saying is that in the military it can result in discharge, just as making a false allegation can too.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/punitivearticles/a/mcm.htm

JMO

[caejde]

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert


Thank you caejde. Is that SOP, or did it strike you as odd? [/*]

I don't think it's odd considering he was getting ready for the Article 32.

I've done it before...not with lawyers. But I have had appointments and didn't take leave and was told to just "keep them informed"

[Regina.Lampert]

Originally posted by Jas.S
There is a huge difference in lying about never havibg sex and making false allegations, which is a crime, [/*]

There is also a difference in lying to superiors who are doing an investigation into a crime, for example a rape.

[caejde]

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/punitivearticles/a/mcm1342.htm

Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 1 year.

That is the max for adultery...doesn't mean that is what Cesar would have got...but always possible.

[caejde]

Making false official statements:

Maximum punishment.

Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 5 years.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/punitivearticles/a/mcm107.htm


Again, just the max.

Do we know if Cesar's statement of "no sex" was official. I know he said it to NCIS...but did he sign the official statement?

[strick10]

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert


There is also a difference in lying to superiors who are doing an investigation into a crime, for example a rape. [/*]

Regina, on this I have to agree with you. IMO there's a big difference in lying to your immediate command OIC/SNCOICs and lying to a superior investigating your case. I'd have to think the lying to the investigator is way worse. IMO

[caejde]

Originally posted by strick10


Regina, on this I have to agree with you. IMO there's a big difference in lying to your immediate command OIC/SNCOICs and lying to a superior investigating your case. I'd have to think the lying to the investigator is way worse. IMO [/*]

Agreed! Though you-not you strick, just in general-shouldn't like anyway!

[Kel65]

Originally posted by strick10


Regina, on this I have to agree with you. IMO there's a big difference in lying to your immediate command OIC/SNCOICs and lying to a superior investigating your case. I'd have to think the lying to the investigator is way worse. IMO [/*]

Sure one is "worse" than the other, but I think both can get you in a world of trouble.

[caejde]

Originally posted by Kel65


Sure one is "worse" than the other, but I think both can get you in a world of trouble. [/*]

But I think lying to investigators and having signed official statements carry more than just lying to someone in your command and not having an official statement.

[Regina.Lampert]

Originally posted by strick10


Regina, on this I have to agree with you. IMO there's a big difference in lying to your immediate command OIC/SNCOICs and lying to a superior investigating your case. I'd have to think the lying to the investigator is way worse. IMO [/*]

Yep, especially if it's a sworn statement I would think.

[Kel65]

Originally posted by caejde


But I think lying to investigators and having signed official statements carry more than just lying to someone in your command and not having an official statement. [/*]

Not disagreeing on the scenario you described.

Without conclusively knowing what transpired, we can't determine that CAL didn't sign a statement at the request of his command? If something wasn't signed at the unit or command level by CAL, then maybe that is part of a "Process Improvement" that needs to happen as a result of what went wrong in this case. Putting something in writing and signining it makes a statement "certified" (especially if part of the statement states "I certify") and binding, much more than just verbally saying I didn't have sex with her.

This could be one of the very first mistakes that the USMC made in regard to how initially they handled things. I wonder if such a mistake (if it did occur) will be refelected in fitness reports?

Just me wondering and JMO

[CanCan]

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert


:eek: You sure are quick for an old lady!!!


lol [/*]

:eek: No kidding! I'm huffin' & puffin" trying to keep up with Old Lady!
lol

[mini-me]

Does anyone know if LE was present when MC removed Maria's possions from Sgt Durham's home.

[Mimi428]

Finally caught up on reading yesterday's thread.

Does anyone recall any other case in which a person was driven to murder someone because they made false accusations against him/her? I can't remember any right off the bat - can y'all think of any?

I don't want this to go completely O/T or get into some lengthy discussion about other cases, just trying to get a reference or comparison to another situation in which a person was so maddened, infuriated, irrational because of false allegations against them that they ended up murdering the person who falsely accused them.

TIA

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by mini-me
Does anyone know if LE was present when MC removed Maria's possions from Sgt Durham's home. [/*]

What a great question!

I sure don't know the answer, but if that question has not been included in the questions that nuttin is sending to RS, I hope that it does.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by mini-me
Does anyone know if LE was present when MC removed Maria's possions from Sgt Durham's home. [/*]


I'm just guessing, but I would say probably not because I don't think LLE was involved at that point. MOO

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by Jas.S
There is a huge difference in lying about never havibg sex and making false allegations, which is a crime, [/*]

I think there is an even BIGGER difference between telling a tall tale for which NO ONE would ever be charged or arrested (because it could so easily be verified as untrue) and making false accusations against someone which could ultimately send them to jail for a significant period of time.

JMO

[mini-me]

Originally posted by bkwits



I'm just guessing, but I would say probably not because I don't think LLE was involved at that point. MOO [/*]Because I believe she was abducted any evidence would no longer be there . Why would Mc be the one to enter a civilan residence?

[hinman]

Originally posted by Mimi428


I think there is an even BIGGER difference between telling a tall tale for which NO ONE would ever be charged or arrested (because it could so easily be verified as untrue) and making false accusations against someone which could ultimately send them to jail for a significant period of time.

JMO [/*]Your post really got me thinking. It was pointed out last night that Maria didn't have to be a weak, easily manipulated women. So going by that I started thinking well maybe Cesear didn't have a hold on her and then raped her or ticked her to push rape charges.

Yet then did she do it for her mothers approval.. Well if she was not manipulated and pushed around then the answer would be no on that to so then why would she file false rape allegations??

To get back at Cl for not leaving his wife? I haven't came to that conclusion yet?? TO be vindictive and hurt CL..

None of it makes sense. Or did she do it because she really got raped, the simpler of all the scenarios?

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by mini-me
Does anyone know if LE was present when MC removed Maria's possions from Sgt Durham's home. [/*]

From what the MC said in their press conference about the belongings, it seems that it was only the MC that boxed up Maria's belongings at Durham's home on 12/28, stored and inventoried them in the supply warehouse on 1/3, and then turned those boxed belongings over to the OCSD on 1/10.

(info here from a previous post)

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?postid=11369200#post11369200

[bkwits]

Originally posted by mini-me
Because I believe she was abducted any evidence would no longer be there . Why would Mc be the one to enter a civilan residence? [/*]


IIRC Durham turned over all Maria's possesions to MC, who inventoried and stored them. I was looking but haven't been able to find the date. However, DD left right after Xmas, and that was before LE was involved. IMO

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny


From what the MC said in their press conference about the belongings, it seems that it was only the MC that boxed up Maria's belongings at Durham's home on 12/28, stored and inventoried them in the supply warehouse on 1/3, and then turned those boxed belongings over to the OCSD on 1/10.

(info here from a previous post)

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?postid=11369200#post11369200 [/*]

Thanks Lynn.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by hinman

None of it makes sense. Or did she do it because she really got raped, the simpler of all the scenarios? [/*]

<bandwidth snip>

Occam's razor. The simplest explanation is the most likely.

I know I sure as h#ll don't go looking for zebras when I hear hoofbeats. I think the possibilities that have the highest percentage of being likely are at the top of my list of explanations for "what happened". The ones that have much less probability for being true are way further down the list.

There are MORE instances of reported rapes that are factually true than there are of instances of reported rapes that are factually false. Simple percentages. Why set up a Rube Goldberg mousetrap contraption of an explanation BEFORE the standard mousetrap has been used & proven to be inadequate? No reason, IMO.

[mini-me]

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny


From what the MC said in their press conference about the belongings, it seems that it was only the MC that boxed up Maria's belongings at Durham's home on 12/28, stored and inventoried them in the supply warehouse on 1/3, and then turned those boxed belongings over to the OCSD on 1/10.

(info here from a previous post)

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?postid=11369200#post11369200 [/*]Thank you Lynn but theyr'e could have been fingerprints etc. All that would be gone because others entered that house. When someone is missing doesn't mean they went willing. A note means nothing she could have been forced to write it.

[hinman]

Originally posted by Jas.S


Absolutely.

And no matter what posturing about it on this thread, the only one who was facing discharge was ML, may she RIP. [/*]
Which makes the question why kill her when there was a chance of her being gone anyway.

Could it be from rage. Possibly but scary to think he can be in the Military and snap in a second.

[caejde]

No, law enforcement would not have been there when the Marines were packing her stuff. There are certain paper work that has to be filled out and only certain ranks can inventory and pack gear. It would have to be a SNCO or Officer that did the packing and inventorying. And since Durham was going to be out of the residence, it was done before he left to ensure Maria's personal effects were secured. They were then turned over to supply, who would then re-inventory and ensure there was nothing in the personal effects that would cause any damage-i.e. anything flammable, anytype of liquid, etc. If that was, it is thrown out and annotated on the paperwork. The SNCO has to sign and date the paperwork, copies are made and one copy goes inside its corresponding box, one on file with supply, and one outside the corresponding box. Her 782 gear was probably turned back into supply as well. I don't remember the date, but her personal effects were then turned over to NCIS who then handed them over to the sheriff's department.

[caejde]

Originally posted by mini-me
Thank you Lynn but theyr'e could have been fingerprints etc. All that would be gone because others entered that house. When someone is missing doesn't mean they went willing. A note means nothing she could have been forced to write it. [/*]

Which is why they sent the note for handwriting analysis. But based on the Marine Corps knowledge they had at the time, every indication was she voluntarily left. Even Durham thought so.

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by mini-me
Thank you Lynn but theyr'e could have been fingerprints etc. All that would be gone because others entered that house. When someone is missing doesn't mean they went willing. A note means nothing she could have been forced to write it. [/*]

That's a very good point mini, especially since there's nothing out there about what LE was doing with the case once the missing person's report was filed. I don't believe I've heard anything or read anything about LE going to the Durham home, but that's not to say that they didn't.

That sounds like a question for Capt. Sutherland .... Oh, nuttin or henry!!! :hat:

[hinman]

Originally posted by Jas.S


Well, the only one who has been reported to have been facing possible discharge is ML, and for me that's the end of that story or any assumptions of what may or may not have happened "down the road." [/*]So why not drop the rape charges then.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by hinman
Your post really got me thinking. It was pointed out last night that Maria didn't have to be a weak, easily manipulated women. [/*]

<another bandwidth snip>

Her mother & other people who knew her have stated that she was NOT weak, she was NOT easily bullied. That is one of the single most relevant points that sticks with me on why the notion that she could not admit to her mother than she had consensual sex is erroneous.

She is bold, active, competitive, athletic, not easily bullied or pushed around - yet she is too weak-willed to say she had consensual sex? Nawwwww. Don't think so.

And with all of that in her history, I also think it is very significant that the video of her at the ATM machine reflects a look of concern or of being wary. Those looks are a very glaring contradiction to the way she has been described by her friends & family.

JMO

[Kel65]

Originally posted by Jas.S


Absolutely.

And no matter what posturing about it on this thread, the only one who was facing discharge was ML, may she RIP. [/*]

I don't agree abour ML being the only one possibly facing a discharge. I believe that CAL knew there would likely be a discharge of some sort in his future, if it was proven he lied about having sex with ML. The birth of Gabriel was going to either prove or disprove sex with ML.

If the Gabriel was his child, my bet is the USMC would pursue a discharge regarding that lie, especially if they didn't have enough evidence for rape. They were going to get him for something.

JMO

[caejde]

Originally posted by hinman
So why not drop the rape charges then. [/*]

NCIS wouldn't let her.

[hinman]

Originally posted by Mimi428


<another bandwidth snip>

Her mother & other people who knew her have stated that she was NOT weak, she was NOT easily bullied. That is one of the single most relevant points that sticks with me on why the notion that she could not admit to her mother than she had consensual sex is erroneous.

She is bold, active, competitive, athletic, not easily bullied or pushed around - yet she is too weak-willed to say she had consensual sex? Nawwwww. Don't think so.

And with all of that in her history, I also think it is very significant that the video of her at the ATM machine reflects a look of concern or of being wary. Those looks are a very glaring contradiction to the way she has been described by her friends & family.

JMO [/*]That is the way I am leaning. I am not seeing her as weak which to me tells me she was not intimidated by her mother or CL.

[hinman]

Originally posted by caejde


NCIS wouldn't let her. [/*]No, not Maria I mean if Cl was not facing any discharge why then would the military not close that part of the investigation. I guess I shouldn't say drop the charges because there was no charges.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by Jas.S

... the only one who was facing discharge was ML... [/*]

<snipped>

I don't know with any certainty that Cesar would not have been facing the same, sooner or later. Do you?

[caejde]

Originally posted by hinman
No, not Maria I mean if Cl was not facing any discharge why then would the military not close that part of the investigation. I guess I shouldn't say drop the charges because there was no charges. [/*]

Oh, sorry...I misunderstood. My apologies.

Yea, there were no charges. But I think they were keeping it open to wait on the DNA from the baby and then if proven the baby was his, they would have charges for him. May not have proved rape but would have proved sex.

[Kel65]

Originally posted by Kel65


I don't agree abour ML being the only one possibly facing a discharge. I believe that CAL knew there would likely be a discharge of some sort in his future, if it was proven he lied about having sex with ML. The birth of Gabriel was going to either prove or disprove sex with ML.

If the Gabriel was his child, my bet is the USMC would pursue a discharge regarding that lie, especially if they didn't have enough evidence for rape. They were going to get him for something.

JMO [/*]

I want to correct myself before somebody else does. If Gabriel turned out not be CAL's son it wouldn't disprove that CAL never had sex with ML.

[caejde]

Originally posted by Mimi428


<snipped>

I don't know with any certainty that Cesar would not have been facing the same, sooner or later. Do you? [/*]

I think if the baby was proven to be his, I definitely believe he would have been up on charges.

[mini-me]

Originally posted by caejde


Which is why they sent the note for handwriting analysis. But based on the Marine Corps knowledge they had at the time, every indication was she voluntarily left. Even Durham thought so. [/*]We all know about the note and everyone handled it. Not one person thought about a young woman 8 months pregnant just ups and leaves. I wonder why the note didn't say I will have someone contact you about the rest of my stuff. No way do I believe Maria would have left Sgt. Durham high and dry without more than just a few words. It just does't add up in my mind. Sgt Durham offered her a home so why walk out on him.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by Jas.S


Absolutely.

And no matter what posturing about it on this thread, the only one who was facing discharge was ML, may she RIP. [/*]

That pretty much sums it up Jas. No need to look for zebras when you can pretty much read it anywhere with reference to the statement made about Maria possibly facing a discharge IMO.

Tho, the Congressman may wish he was looking for zebras if he gets some of those questions answered from my POV. I just found a reference to the early years in Vandalia and it pretty much confirmed what Mary said in the beginning and what the blog we saw yesterday alluded to as well.

Anyone can go to GlennSacks.com and pull a plethora of info on the many men falsely accused of rape and the women who get away with it IMO. There's also a reference to a military case of killing over false charges.

The writing was on the wall concerning the rape accusation and the USMC will wind up going back in time if they are really allowing this much freedom in making allegations from my POV.

Again, Maria going to that house speaks out loud to having NO FEAR of Cesar Laurean.

JMO.

I believe I would have feared Cesar Laurean if I had a relationship with him and rightfully or wrongfully accused him of rape. I will never understand that.

:shrug:

[caejde]

Originally posted by old_lady


According to the MC press conference the charges were never dropped. Maria only changed the source of the DNA for the child.
Also she still claimed rape.
**snipped**

jmoo [/*]

Yes, I know...that's why I said NCIS wouldn't let her drop the charges.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by Kel65


I want to correct myself before somebody else does. If Gabriel turned out not be CAL's son it wouldn't disprove that CAL never had sex with ML. [/*]

And it wouldn't prove a rape either Kel. I think they were waiting for DNA to see if they had to get support in order prior to anything else happening. JMO tho and nothing more. :shrug:

[hinman]

Originally posted by caejde


Oh, sorry...I misunderstood. My apologies.

Yea, there were no charges. But I think they were keeping it open to wait on the DNA from the baby and then if proven the baby was his, they would have charges for him. May not have proved rape but would have proved sex. [/*]Oh it is OK I misunderstand posts all the time. No need to apologize.


Just trying to understand this. Did Cl have lawyers for the rape case? I thought he did so I wonder if his lawyers would be in contact with anyone doing the investigation and if they were telling him it is leaning in his favor but if DNA comes back that would bring different charges against him.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by caejde


Yes, I know...that's why I said NCIS wouldn't let her drop the charges. [/*]

So you don't think she told her uncle she had dropped them and she really didn't right?:confused:

You believe she tried, but they told her she was in it for the duration, is that correct?

JMO.

[caejde]

Originally posted by mini-me
We all know about the note and everyone handled it. Not one person thought about a young woman 8 months pregnant just ups and leaves. I wonder why the note didn't say I will have someone contact you about the rest of my stuff. No way do I believe Maria would have left Sgt. Durham high and dry without more than just a few words. It just does't add up in my mind. Sgt Durham offered her a home so why walk out on him. [/*]

He's not her baby sitter, he was just renting to her. And he did call someone and let them know...he called her family. And it was him who turned in the note. Anyone that voluntarily leaves can voluntarily come back. He was probably thinking that she would do that. If not, then why would he text someone while he was in Cali that "he couldn't believe this thing had gotten this big". So, my opinion is he thought she left voluntarily.

[hinman]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


So you don't think she told her uncle she had dropped them and she really didn't right?:confused:

You believe she tried, but they told her she was in it for the duration, is that correct?

JMO. [/*]I just wonder if she tried to drop them why would the PC by the MC not address that:confused:

[Regina.Lampert]

Originally posted by Jas.S


Absolutely.

And no matter what posturing about it on this thread, the only one who was facing discharge was ML, may she RIP. [/*]

Using the mc's poor judgement of laurean and his actions is no rebuttal to Mimi's excellent points. IMO.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by Mimi428


<another bandwidth snip>

Her mother & other people who knew her have stated that she was NOT weak, she was NOT easily bullied. That is one of the single most relevant points that sticks with me on why the notion that she could not admit to her mother than she had consensual sex is erroneous.

She is bold, active, competitive, athletic, not easily bullied or pushed around - yet she is too weak-willed to say she had consensual sex? Nawwwww. Don't think so.

And with all of that in her history, I also think it is very significant that the video of her at the ATM machine reflects a look of concern or of being wary. Those looks are a very glaring contradiction to the way she has been described by her friends & family.

JMO [/*]

Respectfully disagree, there are plenty of people who are bold on the outside, yet intimidated by parental figures or those in authority over them. In Maria's case, her younger sister had just had a baby out of wedlock and we know nothing of her mother's reaction to that. She could have gone ballistic (or not) - we just don't know.

I also disagree about the ATM shots. She didn't appear to be under any duress at that time. IMO only. She looked around (like everybody *should* when they're conducting financial transactions in the open), then she stuck the card in her mouth, got and counted her money and left. I honestly can't read any signs of being wary.

JMO and all that.

[bkwits]

Originally posted by Mimi428


<another bandwidth snip>

Her mother & other people who knew her have stated that she was NOT weak, she was NOT easily bullied. That is one of the single most relevant points that sticks with me on why the notion that she could not admit to her mother than she had consensual sex is erroneous.

She is bold, active, competitive, athletic, not easily bullied or pushed around - yet she is too weak-willed to say she had consensual sex? Nawwwww. Don't think so.

And with all of that in her history, I also think it is very significant that the video of her at the ATM machine reflects a look of concern or of being wary. Those looks are a very glaring contradiction to the way she has been described by her friends & family.

JMO [/*]

Yes, I agree. I'm sure she had other run ins with her parents.

No matter what else is said, most men are physically stronger than most women . IMO, women tend to feel it is their fault if they get raped. It is not empowering women to say they are in control of a situation where the stronger, more aggressive person is acting out violently. It's just not.

We women are in charge of our own bodies and our own safety, but in many situations we can lose the control. I hope that rape victims will someday feel more comfortable reporting the crime. IMO

[caejde]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


So you don't think she told her uncle she had dropped them and she really didn't right?:confused:

You believe she tried, but they told her she was in it for the duration, is that correct?

JMO. [/*]

I don't know. Sometimes I think Maria was telling her family a different story than the Marine Corps/NCIS. I don't know. As for this particular thing, part of me believes she tried to drop and they wouldn't let her and then part of me believes she was just telling her family that. I dont' know.

[mini-me]

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny


That's a very good point mini, especially since there's nothing out there about what LE was doing with the case once the missing person's report was filed. I don't believe I've heard anything or read anything about LE going to the Durham home, but that's not to say that they didn't.

That sounds like a question for Capt. Sutherland .... Oh, nuttin or henry!!! :hat: [/*]We should also ask Capt. suttherland if Maria was abducted. I know he already said that contact was made before Maria ended up at CAL house. But what he didn't is what kind of contact. Was she abducted or did she go freely.

[caejde]

Originally posted by hinman
Oh it is OK I misunderstand posts all the time. No need to apologize.


Just trying to understand this. Did Cl have lawyers for the rape case? I thought he did so I wonder if his lawyers would be in contact with anyone doing the investigation and if they were telling him it is leaning in his favor but if DNA comes back that would bring different charges against him. [/*]

That's something I am unsure of. You would think they would be discussing it...but I don't know.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by old_lady



I've been thinking she planned to come back. She took her key. The key was later recovered in her car IIRC. I wonder if the note had more in it then we know about?

jmoo [/*]

Where is it written or reported that the key was found in her car? IIRC, a "silver colored key" was found at Durham's house along with the "terms and conditions" document - per the search warrant.

CS specifically said in his Q&A with us that there has never been a list of items found in the car that was provided to the public, with the exception of the MPO.

[Kel65]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


And it wouldn't prove a rape either Kel. I think they were waiting for DNA to see if they had to get support in order prior to anything else happening. JMO tho and nothing more. :shrug: [/*]

True.

I don't think they had much evidence to go on for the rape (if any)and if Gabriel isn't CAL's child, then I tend to think the rape allegation would never have made it to court martial. No rape kit, no witnesses to a rape, people stating ML and CAL dated and a history of not exactly telling the truth by ML.

My prediction is that Gabriel was CAL's child, however, the USMC knew they still had a weak rape case, so they were going to get him for the sex false statement, so they could look like they did something for ML.

JMO

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by mini-me
We should also ask Capt. suttherland if Maria was abducted. I know he already said that contact was made before Maria ended up at CAL house. But what he didn't is what kind of contact. Was she abducted or did she go freely. [/*]

IMO CS has already answered that question without answering it.

If they had evidence that Maria was abducted they would have indicted CAL on Kidnapping charges two months ago.

They didn't. I think she came there willingly on her own free will and knew he was there alone.

imoo

[mini-me]

Originally posted by caejde


He's not her baby sitter, he was just renting to her. And he did call someone and let them know...he called her family. And it was him who turned in the note. Anyone that voluntarily leaves can voluntarily come back. He was probably thinking that she would do that. If not, then why would he text someone while he was in Cali that "he couldn't believe this thing had gotten this big". So, my opinion is he thought she left voluntarily. [/*]Sgt. Durham did what he should have done. My concern is Mc didn't check things out more. Like check to see if the note was written by Maria or notify LE etc. Why just assume she was a runaway pregnant woman.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by old_lady


OK, I guess I'm wrong.:shrug: Did Durham say that was her house key? [/*]

Nothing that Durham has told either NCIS or LE has ever been made public.

[strick10]

Originally posted by mini-me
We should also ask Capt. suttherland if Maria was abducted. I know he already said that contact was made before Maria ended up at CAL house. But what he didn't is what kind of contact. Was she abducted or did she go freely. [/*]

I believe LE has already cleared the abduction theory. I recall a link, Lynn?

[bkwits]

I am going out and about for a little while..:seeya:

[caejde]

Originally posted by mini-me
Sgt. Durham did what he should have done. My concern is Mc didn't check things out more. Like check to see if the note was written by Maria or notify LE etc. Why just assume she was a runaway pregnant woman. [/*]

The Marine Corps is not an investigating unit. And it was said according to NCIS and the Marines, they believed she voluntarily left. And when you take it upon yourself to go UA they do not come looking for you. However, they did take measures to list her as a deserter so they could get more resources to locate her. I don't know what all that entails though.

[strick10]

Originally posted by Kel65


True.

I don't think they had much evidence to go on for the rape (if any)and if Gabriel isn't CAL's child, then I tend to think the rape allegation would never have made it to court martial. No rape kit, no witnesses to a rape, people stating ML and CAL dated and a history of not exactly telling the truth by ML.

My prediction is that Gabriel was CAL's child, however, the USMC knew they still had a weak rape case, so they were going to get him for the sex false statement, so they could look like they did something for ML.

JMO [/*]

I agree that they didn't have the evidence they needed for the rape allegation, however, NCIS was going to the finish with this case to complete the case not to make it look like they did something for Maria. Possibly as you stated to find that CL did give a false no sex statement.

[hinman]

Originally posted by strick10


I agree that they didn't have the evidence they needed for the rape allegation, however, NCIS was going to the finish with this case to complete the case not to make it look like they did something for Maria. Possibly as you stated to find that CL did give a false no sex statement. [/*]Do you think CL's Lawyers were aware of this and updating CL?

[Kel65]

Originally posted by strick10


I agree that they didn't have the evidence they needed for the rape allegation, however, NCIS was going to the finish with this case to complete the case not to make it look like they did something for Maria. Possibly as you stated to find that CL did give a false no sex statement. [/*]

Your probably right.

[mini-me]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


IMO CS has already answered that question without answering it.

If they had evidence that Maria was abducted they would have indicted CAL on Kidnapping charges two months ago.

They didn't. I think she came there willingly on her own free will and knew he was there alone.

imoo [/*]I just don't recall LE saying positively that she went willing to CAl house. But i would like to know for sure one way or the other.

[hinman]

Originally posted by strick10


I agree that they didn't have the evidence they needed for the rape allegation, however, NCIS was going to the finish with this case to complete the case not to make it look like they did something for Maria. Possibly as you stated to find that CL did give a false no sex statement. [/*]I agree also they didn't have the evidence.

Wasn't there a statement at the PC by the MC that the investigation was moving on? Does that mean they were getting some kind of evidence and they were about to decide?

[BarbraAllen]

In regard to "Maria facing possible discharge": was this something that was addressed in the MC press conference, or has someone official said this? Or is this a comment from family/friends?

Thanks to anyone who can answer.

[hinman]

Originally posted by old_lady


I thought in a link today it was said CL was never assigned any lawyers from the Marine's. I also thought Maria was coming back. Old Lady is getting confused. :confused: [/*]I thought he hired a civilian Lawyer though to represent him in the rape case:shrug:

[caejde]

Originally posted by old_lady


I thought in a link today it was said CL was never assigned any lawyers from the Marine's. I also thought Maria was coming back. Old Lady is getting confused. :confused: [/*]

He chose not to go with military lawyers and opted for civilian ones.

[caejde]

Originally posted by BarbraAllen
In regard to "Maria facing possible discharge": was this something that was addressed in the MC press conference, or has someone official said this? Or is this a comment from family/friends?

Thanks to anyone who can answer. [/*]

I believe that came out in one of the sheriff's press conferences. I don't think the Marines said anything about that.

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


Anyone can go to GlennSacks.com and pull a plethora of info on the many men falsely accused of rape and the women who get away with it IMO. There's also a reference to a military case of killing over false charges.
[/*]

What search terms do you suggest using on the Glenn Beck website? I started with the word "rape" - here's the list...

http://www.glennbeck.com/search/results.php?q=rape&submit.x=31&submit.y=5

Here's and excerpt from the 1st one...

http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/1926/



http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/196/1914/




http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/196/4464/

© 2008 Premiere Radio Networks, All Rights Reserved.


You may very well be correct that Glenn Beck's website is chock full of stories about rape claims that were factually untrue & has at least one story in it about a person who was falsely accused & it drove him to murder the person who falsely accused him. So far, I'm not finding them.

JMO

[strick10]

Originally posted by hinman
Do you think CL's Lawyers were aware of this and updating CL? [/*]

I dunno. IMO I think because CL knew what had happened to Maria he was in the "oh crap they're getting close" mode and was probably seeking counsel regarding the questioning in regards to Marias missing status. Don't think he even thought about being charged for falsifying his statement. He was concernd that the LE was getting too close to the truth. JMO

[hinman]

Originally posted by strick10


I dunno. IMO I think because CL knew what had happened to Maria he was in the "oh crap they're getting close" mode and was probably seeking counsel regarding the questioning in regards to Marias missing status. Don't think he even thought about being charged for falsifying his statement. He was concernd that the LE was getting too close to the truth. JMO [/*]I ams o confused because I thought he had hired a lawyer for the rape case not for the Murder??

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by strick10


I believe LE has already cleared the abduction theory. I recall a link, Lynn? [/*]

I recall in the early search warrant to search the residence, residential curtilage, and outlying buildings and adjacent wooded areas of the Laurean home written by Det. Dubois on 1-7-08 and posted on the AMW site, it did have the word "Kidnapping" listed but it was not indicated on any further search warrant or in the 5 count indictment.

http://www.amw.com/pdf/lauterbachPDF.pdf

This was said by Sheriff Brown on 1/11/08:

QUESTION: Sheriff, you said you believe she drove her car to the bus station and purchased a bus ticket. Do you think she was abducted at that point?

BROWN: No, I do not. She seemed to have walked in there and got the ticket on her own understanding (ph).

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0801/11/ywt.01.html

[strick10]

Originally posted by hinman
I agree also they didn't have the evidence.

Wasn't there a statement at the PC by the MC that the investigation was moving on? Does that mean they were getting some kind of evidence and they were about to decide? [/*]
Yup, the investigation continued. I don't think in Dec they were going to get any evidence. The wait was on the baby.

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by BarbraAllen
In regard to "Maria facing possible discharge": was this something that was addressed in the MC press conference, or has someone official said this? Or is this a comment from family/friends?

Thanks to anyone who can answer. [/*]

Here's is what is in the SW/Affidavit dated 1/7/08 by OCSD:

...made contact with NCIS Camp Lejeune and spoke with two agents. Moore was informed that there was an open case as to the sexual assault was active at Camp Lejeune, however it was difficult due to the inconsistencies provided by Maria Lauterbach the reported victim. NCIS confirmed the history of compulsive lying. NCIS did not confirm the Bi-Polar nor the AWOL status. At the time of the report Miss Maria Lauterbach was only listed as UA. NCIS did confirm Ms. Maria Lauterbach was under considerable stress as to her career and her personal life. Ms. Lauterbach was facing a possible discharge from the Marine Corps. NCIS agreed to also assist in the investigation and agreed to interview the military personnel involved.

http://www.jdnews.com/attachments/1200092882-1200068360lauterbachinvestigationdocumnetsrevised. pdf

[strick10]

Originally posted by hinman
I ams o confused because I thought he had hired a lawyer for the rape case not for the Murder?? [/*]

You're probably right, I'm not sure why he hired lawyers at that time, can't recollect. Find it funny that he hired lawyers right after LE requested to interview him regarding Maria. Don't know for sure if he had a lawyer for the rape case, I don't recollect anything on that.

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by hinman
I ams o confused because I thought he had hired a lawyer for the rape case not for the Murder?? [/*]

Laurean was long gone by the time he was indicted for the murder. He had already retained attorneys Mark Raynor, Paul Castle and Ed Bailey, so I would think they were for the rape case. In fact, Sheriff Brown said that these 3 attorneys were 'preventing him from talking to my people" at the PC on 1/11.

[i]On Friday, when Onslow County Sheriff Ed Brown gave a press conference to announce he believed his investigators had found Lauterbach's body and had developed Laurean as the main suspect he said at least one of the three attorneys retained by Laurean had been present at a press conference the day before to listen to what he was going to tell the media about Laurean.


http://www.enctoday.com/news/laurean_43767_kfpress__article.html/hudson_ids.html

Copyright © 2007

[strick10]

:rose:

Thanks Lynn!!!!!! You're fantastic.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by Mimi428


SNIPPED

You may very well be correct that Glenn Beck's website is chock full of stories about rape claims that were factually untrue & has at least one story in it about a person who was falsely accused & it drove him to murder the person who falsely accused him. So far, I'm not finding them.

JMO [/*]

I will gladly debate this in current crimes. You can't find what you don't look for IMHO. :seeya:

[hinman]

A big thanks to Nelkirk and Lynn for the links.



So I wonder how up to date they were keeping CL on the rape charges. I know that would depend on what his lawyers new about the rape and what info the NCIS was giving the Lawyers?

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by nelkirk
I finally fouond the end of the thread!!!

(SNIPPED)
As per January 9th Article in JDNews

http://www.jdnews.com/news/lauterbach_54236___article.html/sheriff_department.html

There were "several people" sharing Sgt D's "boarding house".

Were there others there on that day? Could they have been witnesses to MLs note and her state of mind? [/*]

Thanks nelkirk. :seeya:

Reading your post made me recall a name on the search warrant, Shelia Snodgrass from Chicago, IL. (page 6)

Could she be another roommate? JMO

http://www.amw.com/pdf/lauterbachPDF.pdf

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


I will gladly debate this in current crimes. You can't find what you don't look for IMHO. :seeya: [/*]

I did a search on "falsely" and "accused" - here's what I got...

http://www.glennbeck.com/search/results.php?q=falsely+accused&submit.x=51&submit.y=10

returned 0 results. Please try again.

I did a search on the words "false" and "rape" - here's what I got...

http://www.glennbeck.com/search/results.php?q=false+rape&submit.x=37&submit.y=13

returned 0 results. Please try again.

What were you saying about not finding what you don't look for?

[BarbraAllen]

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny


Here's is what is in the SW/Affidavit dated 1/7/08 by OCSD:

...made contact with NCIS Camp Lejeune and spoke with two agents. Moore was informed that there was an open case as to the sexual assault was active at Camp Lejeune, however it was difficult due to the inconsistencies provided by Maria Lauterbach the reported victim. NCIS confirmed the history of compulsive lying. NCIS did not confirm the Bi-Polar nor the AWOL status. At the time of the report Miss Maria Lauterbach was only listed as UA. NCIS did confirm Ms. Maria Lauterbach was under considerable stress as to her career and her personal life. Ms. Lauterbach was facing a possible discharge from the Marine Corps. NCIS agreed to also assist in the investigation and agreed to interview the military personnel involved.

http://www.jdnews.com/attachments/1200092882-1200068360lauterbachinvestigationdocumnetsrevised. pdf [/*]

Thank you Lynn Gweeny for the info and for the link. I've opened it in a different window and plan to read the whole thing; I have not seen this before, only read the quotes from it.

So it does say that she was facing a POSSIBLE discharge but it doesn't say why as far as I see. I so wish we knew more about her state of mind those last few months.

Thank you again.

[strick10]

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny


Thanks nelkirk. :seeya:

Reading your post made me recall a name on the search warrant, Shelia Snodgrass from Chicago, IL. (page 6)

Could she be another roommate? JMO

http://www.amw.com/pdf/lauterbachPDF.pdf [/*]

There is a Sheila Snodgrass listed in people finders as being 41 in Camp Lejeune NC.

http://www.peoplefinders.com/summary.asp?fn=sheila&mn=&ln=snodgrass&city=&state=NC&age=&dobmm=&dobdd=&doby=&vw=people&Input=name&x=0&y=0

:shrug:

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by Mimi428


What search terms do you suggest using on the Glenn Beck website? I started with the word "rape" - here's the list...

http://www.glennbeck.com/search/results.php?q=rape&submit.x=31&submit.y=5

Here's and excerpt from the 1st one...

http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/1926/


GRAY: The KBR situation is unbelievable. There's a young woman from Houston who went with -- this was when Halliburton and KBR were part of the same company. They've divested themselves of each other since. But she went as a contractor to Iraq and the first or second day, I mean, it was right after she got into the green zone, she was brutally raped. First of all, she was drugged.

GLENN: Yeah, she was drugged. And when she woke up, she had bruises all over her, she had been --

GRAY: She was bleeding.

GLENN: Yes, she was vaginally and anally raped and apparently by several men for an extended period of time.

GRAY: Yeah. So she actually, she went to the doctor and got a rape kit done and right after coming out of that, they apprehended her and put her in a shipping container with a bed and had 24-hour watch on her and would not let her leave, would not let her make a phone call back to the States. So finally one of the guys that was guarding her, one of the employees loaned her his cell phone and she called her dad back home in Houston and, you know, she said, Dad, I've been raped; I don't know what to do; I'm in a container, they are holding me here, I'm not able to leave, I'm a prisoner. He immediately, of course, went nuts as any dad would and contacted his congressman who happens to be Ted Poe.

Hmmm - vaginally & anally raped for an extended period of time by multiple men, then kept against her will in a container - doesn't sound like much of a false charge to me.

So let's go an excerpt of the 2nd one...

http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/196/1914/

GLENN: Well, I wanted to talk to you about this one and this is really disturbing to me. It's a story of Jamie Leigh Jones. We talked about her yesterday. She was brutally, brutally raped in Iraq by Halliburton employees. Do we know if these employees were Americans?

REPRESENTATIVE POE: We don't know. They probably were but they may not have been. There were more than -- there were several of them and some of them may have been Iraqis or some other nationality.

GLENN: Okay. But she was brutally raped. Then she went to the hospital, got a rape kit. She then went back. It's my understanding that Halliburton took that rape kit, she's never been able to have the rape kit, she was thrown into a cargo container, one of those big container units that, you know, they put on big ships. She was locked in there, given a bed, couldn't use a phone. A guard took pity on her and gave her the phone. She called her father. Her father called you, but this was two years ago, right?

REPRESENTATIVE POE: That is correct.

GLENN: And nothing has happened since then. You were on top of it right away and you were responsible for getting her out. What happened?

REPRESENTATIVE POE: Well, as soon as I got the call from her father who was, you know, tremendously excited and worried, we contacted officials at the State Department and within 48 hours they had two agents there in Baghdad and found her, rescued her. And she needed much more medical attention, and she received that and finally was brought back to the United States very shortly thereafter.

Then things seemed to have just fallen off the radar. We've tried to find out what has happened to the perpetrators, these criminals. Who are they, where are they and what has been done, and really haven't gotten satisfactory answers. And so we've pursued it through the State Department now, through the new attorney general, and the Justice Department is now moving on the case to find out where these criminals are and who are they so they can be prosecuted.

GLENN: What does this say to you? I mean, here I'm a guy, I've defended Halliburton when I felt they needed to be defended and, you know, I watched the news last night, Congressman, and I saw something. What was it, on waterboarding. I know where I stand on waterboarding and I'm watching it like, okay, I don't really know who to believe anymore because I'm not getting the truth very often. What does it tell you how something like this could happen to an American citizen with most likely American employees and an American company and nobody pursues it for two years?

REPRESENTATIVE POE: It's very disappointing and it's unfortunate. You'd think in a situation like that, that a 22-year-old female that's been sexually assaulted, really brutalized, that not only our government but the corporation that she works for would side with her and do everything possible to make sure her medical needs were met and the people who did this were held accountable, but --

Followup story from the one in the 1st link. Not a false claim of rape, but it does have a sad, familiar aspect, as in - NOTHING WAS DONE, even after TWO FREAKIN' YEARS.

3rd result is about the same story. 4th result goes to an archive site, but when you click on the link, you get an error message. So on to #5 - an interview with Anderson Cooper in Jan. 2008, here's an exceprt...

http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/196/4464/

GLENN: Like what are you doing? What have you been up to? I have to tell you, Anderson, I told you this the other day and I don't know if you remember because you were in the middle of the election coverage but my daughter and I sat and we watched your piece on 60 Minutes on Sunday about the Congo. One of the most unbelievable stories I have ever, ever seen, systematic rape to keep an entire population down.

COOPER: Yeah, it's pretty shocking. I mean, what's incredible about the Congo is some four million people have died there in the last ten years and no one really knows about it, really seems to care that much about it and hundreds of thousands of women have been raped and most of them gang raped. It's hard to believe it's happening.

You may very well be correct that Glenn Beck's website is chock full of stories about rape claims that were factually untrue & has at least one story in it about a person who was falsely accused & it drove him to murder the person who falsely accused him. So far, I'm not finding them.

JMO [/*]

Errr, I think Candy's post said "Glenn Sacks", not "Glenn Beck"?

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


Errr, I think Candy's post said "Glenn Sacks", not "Glenn Beck"? [/*]

:lol: :lol:

Hallelujah! No wonder I couldn't find a blessed thing - I was looking at the wrong website! Holy cannoli, at this rate I think I will be going to get my bi-focals changed sooner than later.

Will ya cook the crow dinner for me? I'll bring the knife, fork & spoon.

Sheesh!

[Maka]

I just heard back from the Montgomery County Ohio probate clerk's office about the first docket entry showing Maria had a will to deposit...it was an error in code entry and there is no will. I guess they'll update that to reflect that soon.


moo

[Babes]

ONSLOW COUNTY -- The Sheriff's Office said some of Corporal Cesar Laurean's resources have been cut off, but they wouldn't specify

http://www.wect.com/Global/story.asp?S=8006344&nav=2gQc

Resources?

[caejde]

Originally posted by Maka
I just heard back from the Montgomery County Ohio probate clerk's office about the first docket entry showing Maria had a will to deposit...it was an error in code entry and there is no will. I guess they'll update that to reflect that soon.


moo [/*]

The only thing I think she would have is her SGLI. And it is in her SRB who that goes to.

[caejde]

Originally posted by Babes
ONSLOW COUNTY -- The Sheriff's Office said some of Corporal Cesar Laurean's resources have been cut off, but they wouldn't specify

http://www.wect.com/Global/story.asp?S=8006344&nav=2gQc

Resources? [/*]

yes. I believe it was being discussed yesterday or the day prior about his resources. Probably money was being cut off somehow-his accounts frozen or something of the sort.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by Mimi428


:lol: :lol:

Hallelujah! No wonder I couldn't find a blessed thing - I was looking at the wrong website! Holy cannoli, at this rate I think I will be going to get my bi-focals changed sooner than later.

Will ya cook the crow dinner for me? I'll bring the knife, fork & spoon.

Sheesh! [/*]

No, but I'll debate the increase in false rape allegations and the damage done by such with you on another forum Mimi!

Peace out. :o

[Maka]

Originally posted by caejde


The only thing I think she would have is her SGLI. And it is in her SRB who that goes to. [/*]

I'm sure she has some cash, jewelry, clothing, music CDs and other things of various value that have to be accounted for to the court...maybe savings bonds or a small amount of stock even.



But still....I was only trying to get clarification from the clerk since I said I would.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by Patsy'sPal


It is sometimes hard to keep the flow of discussion going with these silly questions, Jas.S

I always liked to read this thread, but lately it's getting bogged down, and it seems almost purposeful.

Could you please refrain a little so the case can be talked about posters don't have to explain every little phrase, over and over? Thanks :D

JMO [/*]

I think Coldwater knows how to do her job. There are far too many things just taken for granted here, and often, IT CALLS FOR A STOP and PAUSE to get the train back on the track. :D

Thanks for your input. :patriot: JMO

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by Patsy'sPal


It is sometimes hard to keep the flow of discussion going with these silly questions, Jas.S

I always liked to read this thread, but lately it's getting bogged down, and it seems almost purposeful.

Could you please refrain a little so the case can be talked about and posters don't have to explain every little phrase, over and over? Thanks :D

JMO [/*]

Are you just talking to JasS or should the rest of us refrain from asking for links or further info until you catch up?

:shrug:

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by old_lady
Glen Sacks is just another person with his own agenda and POV from what I read.

jmoo [/*]

Well, if you want to get technical about agendas and such...so does Glenn Beck. From what I've read, of course.

[Babes]

Originally posted by caejde


yes. I believe it was being discussed yesterday or the day prior about his resources. Probably money was being cut off somehow-his accounts frozen or something of the sort. [/*]

Hi Caejde

Maybe they already threatened CAL's family not to support him financially or they will be charged as well. I dont think CAL will have a lot of savings on his accounts or else he wont bother withdrawing money from Maria's ATM machine.

[baywench]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Look at CAL, he knew what the lack of birth control would and could produce---after all he has a daughter. Probably in his mind, it's just not macho to use any type of birth control or he may think it's the woman's place to use birth control.

JMO [/*]

True and also this is a totally different generation that has much different ideas. It used to be the husband or wife or boyfriend/girlfriend were the categories that described relationships. Now there is also "My babie's daddy/Mommy" and there seems to be different expectations. IMO

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


No, but I'll debate the increase in false rape allegations and the damage done by such with you on another forum Mimi!

Peace out. :o [/*]

Earlier in the day, I asked if anyone knew of another case where a man (or woman) was falsely accused of a crime & it drove him (or her) to murder the person who made the false accusation. That request was made FOR COMPARISON PURPOSES ONLY.

Then I remarked in another post about there being more reports of factual rapes than there are reports of false rapes AND BECAUSE OF THAT I more inclined to view Maria's rape allegations as being true. I will be happy to adjust my viewpoint should we EVER learn the real facts in this case.

Now how you came to the conclusion that I wanted to discuss "increase in false rape allegations and the damage done by such" - I don't know.

Meanwhile, good ol' Glenn Sacks did have an article on HIS website about how Darren Mack claimed his wife, corrupt attorneys, corrupt prosecutors, corrupt investigators & corrupt LE drove him to stab his wife to death & try to murder the judge in their pending case. So far, his case is the only one I have found that comes remotely close to a "false accusations drove me to murder" situation. (I don't want to discuss the merits of his particular case, just trying to get some comparisons & references for the assertion that people are driven to murder by false accusations).

JMO

[caejde]

Originally posted by Maka


I'm sure she has some cash, jewelry, clothing, music CDs and other things of various value that have to be accounted for to the court...maybe savings bonds or a small amount of stock even.



But still....I was only trying to get clarification from the clerk since I said I would. [/*]

Her clothing, jewelry, any money at Durham's house, CD's, etc...would have been packed up by the Marine's that inventoried her gear and sent it to supply. That is SOP. And as for any money she may have had, if it is a certain amount they have to take that and get a cashier's check-or something like that. I was just saying as far as military wise, she would have her SGLI which she decides who gets it. Sorry, I should have been a little more clearer in my original post.

Edited to add a "thank you" to you for getting the clarification.

[baywench]

Originally posted by mini-me
We all know about the note and everyone handled it. Not one person thought about a young woman 8 months pregnant just ups and leaves. I wonder why the note didn't say I will have someone contact you about the rest of my stuff. No way do I believe Maria would have left Sgt. Durham high and dry without more than just a few words. It just does't add up in my mind. Sgt Durham offered her a home so why walk out on him. [/*]

He wasn't performing a charity. She would rent while he was gone. I don't think they knew each other all that well. Roomate type stuff not bosum buddies. I would like to know if there was any personal stuff left or if it was all her military gear. JMO

[Maka]

Originally posted by caejde


Her clothing, jewelry, any money at Durham's house, CD's, etc...would have been packed up by the Marine's that inventoried her gear and sent it to supply. That is SOP. And as for any money she may have had, if it is a certain amount they have to take that and get a cashier's check-or something like that. I was just saying as far as military wise, she would have her SGLI which she decides who gets it. Sorry, I should have been a little more clearer in my original post.

Edited to add a "thank you" to you for getting the clarification. [/*]

NP I'm all too familiar with probate ....I understand that life insurance can go right to the designated person and doesn't have to be probated.

I'm not sure we're on the same track here.
But...the military inventorying & packing her things up has no bearing on how her estate would be disposed of.

This is what I'm meaning as far as probate wrt inventory:
Everything has to be inventoried by the administrator and *the list* given to the court so the court/administrator can determine the value of it for estate tax purposes, to pay off loans and in case someone comes out of the blue and makes a claim against her estate (imaginary examples - CSL for emotional damages, Durham for a hole in the carpet)

And nobody can just go in and take her cash accounts if they're not on her signature card...they would need to get appropriate documents from the court to do that...even if they're on her account, they still need to report the amounts to the probate court as cash on the inventory (if they're playing by the rules, that is!)

Clear as mud?
:shrug:

had to add two words due to time change brain effects

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by baywench


He wasn't performing a charity. She would rent while he was gone. I don't think they knew each other all that well. Roomate type stuff not bosum buddies. I would like to know if there was any personal stuff left or if it was all her military gear. JMO [/*]

I didn't get that impression of them being close either baywench and having grown up on base, it was commonplace for people moving off base to share housing from an ad on the base exchange bulletin board.

I also noticed she wasn't on his myspace friends list. I agree this was a situation that probably helped both of them out for the time being IMO. :shrug:

[baywench]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


It wasn't charity but it was said that he felt- I beleive they said "bad for her plight" and offered her a room at his house, rent or not, he offered. Maybe not bosom buddies but he apparently thought he knew enough about her situation to feel bad for her and offer her a place to stay/rent. JMO [/*]

I can't remember exactly what the quote was AB but I know he said along those lines. It was a boarding house wasn't it? I have always been under the impression that he did not know her that well but it's defintely MOO

[baywench]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


It wasn't charity but it was said that he felt- I beleive they said "bad for her plight" and offered her a room at his house, rent or not, he offered. Maybe not bosom buddies but he apparently thought he knew enough about her situation to feel bad for her and offer her a place to stay/rent. JMO [/*]

[hinman]

I thought there was a statement form the sheriff that they were close. I don't remember what he exactly said but I thought it was along the lines that he knew a lot about Maria and they were close.

[strick10]

Originally posted by hinman
I thought there was a statement form the sheriff that they were close. I don't remember what he exactly said but I thought it was along the lines that he knew a lot about Maria and they were close. [/*]

I don't believe the sheriff said anything as such or least I don't remember that he did. I do recall that Mary said that Sgt D babied Maria a little bit. JMO too lazy to look for the link.

[Maka]

Also

Here is what Ohio calls a probate inventory form and asset list sheet (what I call the inventory list) an admin can use to list all of someone's stuff & bucks.
http://www.probatect.org/services/standard_forms/6_0_Inventory_And_Appraisal.pdf
http://www.probatect.org/services/standard_forms/6_1_Schedule_Of_Assets.pdf

The admin might list things as:
(hypothetical list)
25 shirts $50.00
1 14K gold chain and star pendant w 2K diamond appraised at $500.00
1 Series EE savings bond serial number xxxxx current value $25.63
Trust account XXXXX Soandso's Trust fbo
ML - current market value $10,000.
etc


If an admin has to sell some items to pay for...say...a car loan, the admin will be able to use that probate inventory of assets list to show the court what's what and get approval to sell items to cover the loan.

http://www.probatect.org/services/standard_forms/9_0_App_To_Sell_Personal_Property.pdf

moo

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


But you know, maybe he wasn't Close to her or BFF with her, but I was thinking awhile back, if I was young and preg and had apparently not many friends (from what we hear0 in the marines and some man/guy offered to rent a room to me, and we shared a home for (how long was it, a few days or what before he left for California? I can't remember) maybe an evening or two she poured her heart out to him, maybe he did know "alot", her certainly picked up on her phone convo w/ mom was a "red flag"
enough to mention it to LE. But if he was a soft-hearted enough man to offer her a room to rent, wouldn't you figure he would be the kind of guy that sat at the kitchen table with you and handed you tissues while you blubbered your problem to? At her age? I can see it....JMO [/*]

They lived together from early November until she disappeared. Durham did not leave for California until late December.

I agree, not really time for them to become best friends, and we have no idea if they were friends before she moved in, or if she just rented a room. We just don't know.

[strick10]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


Ohhhh, I don't know that it was a boarding house. I never heard that, I thought it was a private home but I certainly could be wrong.
Someone else posted they had a SFH (single family home) and always had about 5 marines "flopping there" for lack of a better description...maybe thats what you are thinking about ("boarding house"?) JMO [/*]

I thought it was a private home as well. The pictures they have available looks like Sgt D's place is a sfh.

JR is the one the flop house thing. It's not uncommon for a bunch of Marines to find a secondary home w/ another Marine that may live in town.

Somewhat O/T. When you went to the bank did you use the teller? If so, did you have an uncomfortable/cautious look on your face?

[baywench]

My memory is really bad but I remembered where I saw the link....it was here, today! Thank goodness. I would never have remembered otherwise but here it is


http://www.jdnews.com/news/lauterbach_54236___article.html/sheriff_department.html

[gaelicpeas]

I have been thinking about the rape allegations. We really won't ever know if there was a rape because, unfortunately, one person in the he said/she said is dead... and the other one is not to be found.

We will know the paternity and fetal age, hopefully (eventually), so we should be able to determine whether the baby was CL's and when the conception date was (or at least hopefully a good estimate).

I rarely contribute to the rape allegation discussion because of this. To me, it is irrelevant, but that is JMO. I am more interested in the murder... but I realize other people have different interests.

Just my 2 cents and all that jazz...

[strick10]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


I knew whose place was the flophouse but diodn't want to bring that person up per se.

AB [/*]

Ok, sorry for informing you of what you already knew.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by strick10


I thought it was a private home as well. The pictures they have available looks like Sgt D's place is a sfh.

JR is the one the flop house thing. It's not uncommon for a bunch of Marines to find a secondary home w/ another Marine that may live in town.

Somewhat O/T. When you went to the bank did you use the teller? If so, did you have an uncomfortable/cautious look on your face? [/*]

You are correct strick. DD purchassed the house on Idlebrook in June 2007.

According to the tax office and the Register of Deeds, DD's home is SFH. And since the Register of Deeds online records are down I'll just put JMO.

[hinman]

Originally posted by strick10


I don't believe the sheriff said anything as such or least I don't remember that he did. I do recall that Mary said that Sgt D babied Maria a little bit. JMO too lazy to look for the link. [/*]BROWN: Well, Sergeant Durham was her roommate. They shared co- tenant together in a house.

They were friends, close friends an associates. At this time, it is believed that Mr. Durham, Sergeant Durham, could be the last person that had communications with her, and could shed a lot of light on some of the other things that we know that have been uncovered in this investigation

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0801/10/oito.01.html

[baywench]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


No prob- was jus sayin'. Everything seems to be flowing smoothly here and I didn;t want to throw a wrench in it, like I am now doing by defending my post, but its all good, strick-:D

(I got to go to Outback today so I am in a good mood:D ) [/*]

Congrats on the Outback! Actually I'm not even sure why I am posting about whether or not they were close. They certainly could have been but as I said I had the "impression" they were not close. So I'll just have to say "never mind"! It IS all good! JMO

[henry]

Originally posted by baywench


Congrats on the Outback! Actually I'm not even sure why I am posting about whether or not they were close. They certainly could have been but as I said I had the "impression" they were not close. So I'll just have to say "never mind"! It IS all good! JMO [/*]

iirc when this case first "broke" i had the opinion that he was being brought back for questioning as a suspect :eek: . . . lots of britches going on here . . . jmo

[strick10]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


I wonder if Cesar and Christina saw this on TV the night it aired, and if they felt encouraged or threatened by the way the investigation appeared in the media? Because she was way way dead by now and they were still together in that house trying to live life as usual, at the time this was aired.
Creepy. IMO. [/*]

Good question AB. I too wonder if they saw it. Certainly CL heard about it at work the next day even if he didn't see it on TV. He probably had his fingers crossed that they would continue to think she was missing, poopie head that he is.

[caejde]

Maka, I'm so sorry I totally misunderstood your post. Please forgive me. When you said "inventory", I just automatically went into my personal effects mode...so my apologies. I do understand what you mean. People that don't have wills, still have property and it has to be settled. Gotcha! Thanks again for correcting me!

[hinman]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


I wonder if Cesar and Christina saw this on TV the night it aired, and if they felt encouraged or threatened by the way the investigation appeared in the media? Because she was way way dead by now and they were still together in that house trying to live life as usual, at the time this was aired.
Creepy. IMO. [/*]I feel he had to be following the case. He had his darn lawyers going to the press conference and this is when they thought she had just ran away,

[hinman]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


:D Outback. Still have the whole baked potato to eat tonight.

But reading back on the link above, alot of what Brown was saying to the media initially turned out to be so far off the mark- and they say they HAD ALREADY BEEN INVESTIGATING IT for some time, only got the media involved to have the "plea" for Maria to return via TV to get aired- :eek: I never knew THAT peice of info.

He said they were "close" friends, but he didn't really know that (yet). He was still making alot of assumptions the day he made that Press Conference statement.

Snipped:

Have some of you been saying this for awhile now and I am just catching on today? [/*]Hey AB some have been saying that all along. :D

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by henry


iirc when this case first "broke" i had the opinion that he was being brought back for questioning as a suspect :eek: . . . lots of britches going on here . . . jmo [/*]

My opinion only, but I don't think they had a clue what he would say...

[hinman]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


My opinion only, but I don't think they had a clue what he would say... [/*]I don't either.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by henry


iirc when this case first "broke" i had the opinion that he was being brought back for questioning as a suspect :eek: . . . lots of britches going on here . . . jmo [/*]

Yep, IIRC he was mentioned as "a person of interest".

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by old_lady


What's SFH? [/*]

SFH=Single Family Housing

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by hinman
I don't either. [/*]

And that is one of many problems in this case. There was not a formal investigation of the missing persons case, #1. As in, going to her home (Durham's house) and investigating. Talking to his neighbors, etc. They checked hospitals and ditches. IOW, they based all of their investigation on ML's note.

There are things that both LE and the MC/NCIS botched. I realize there are lots of folks here that are military or military-related, or believe ML made false rape allegations, etc, etc. But, seriously, the level of investigation when a missing pregnant woman who went missing and had made a rape allegation is astounding to me. JMO.

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


:D Outback. Still have the whole baked potato to eat tonight.

(SNIP)

I never thought about it till just this minute- you all are light years ahead of me- but you know when Brown stepped "down' so to speak, said he was exhausted blah blah and Rick s. stepped up to the plate? Well at the time I felt sorry for him and thought he looked physically sick, too stressed...etc
Now that I look back on what he said in the transcripts, I think they mighthave been like look, Brown, you have had this investigation since (date) and this is what you have? The media have asked better questions in 2 days than you all have investigated- then her body is found- and they say look, you botched this, her body should not have been in the ground that long this could have been solved, balh blah YOU STEP DOWN NOW.

Have some of you been saying this for awhile now and I am just catching on today? [/*]

You are so right on this Annie. This case didn't go 'public' until Maria's car was found. Sheriff Brown has said in so many words that it was because of the public's help that things started to break in the case. JMO

"As soon as it went suspicious, we contacted the media and asked for help," Brown said. "The case did not produce enough evidence, other than she was just missing."

(SNIP)

Brown also learned about the case Monday (1/7). A series of search warrants were filed, and the case went public as he asked for help.

"Once the sheriff's office engaged in this, they were phenomenal and they did everything they possibly could," Steiner said.

By that point, it was too late. Laurean refused to meet with investigators, and eventually skipped town before dawn Friday without telling his lawyers where he was going. He remains on the loose.

http://www.nbc17.com/midatlantic/ncn/search.apx.-content-articles-NCN-2008-01-11-0008.html


On Jan. 8, the sheriff's office issued the first press release about the missing, pregnant Marine. Before long, the parking lot became a makeshift media encampment, swarming with news crews from across the country.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2008/01/20/ddn012008mariainside.html


BROWN: This has not taken so long to start an investigation. The investigation started immediately. But we don't make it a habit in the investigative field to call for the assistance of the media, which we did in this case, until we saw the case may have needed some notoriety in the public to bring the witnesses forward.

The investigation -- and this is what I want to make clear to the people who are viewing, because some people have been led to believe that the fact that the media was contacted the first part of the week is when the investigation actually got into gear high speed. We have been in the gear high speed, and some of these people who have been making conjectures about what should be done, we didn't fall off the tomato truck yesterday.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0801/10/oito.01.html

[hinman]

Originally posted by Jas.S


This is how I am feeling: hammer on my head.

There were never rape charges. [/*]In case you scanned over my correction I did state that I ment allegations so thanks for pointing that out many of times today but I get the point.

They were allegations or charges what ever word you feel is proper made by Maria.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


I don't think so either...


what WAS LE doing from the time Mrs Lauterbach rang the alarm bell till the media got ahold of this?

I mean- really? SB thought she was still alive the day he went on TV. Hadn't they investigated anything yet? I am really :shrug: about this!!! [/*]

Depends on the definition of "alarm bell". IMO

We don't know what was told to SB by Mary Lauterbach in the beginning. We don't know that she gave him any more information than 3 pages of reasons why Maria could/would have left on her own. We don't know how she classified the rape investigation or if she even said anything about it. We also don't know if she EVER told SB about Cesar or the MPO or did they only find out about it when they found her car on 1/7. Adults can and do leave every day and they're not required to tell anybody where they're going.

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by Lynn Gweeny


[i]"As soon as it went suspicious, we contacted the media and asked for help," Brown said. "The case did not produce enough evidence, other than she was just missing."

(SNIP)

Brown also learned about the case Monday (1/7).http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2008/01/20/ddn012008mariainside.html


This is the problem.. the "case did not produce enough evidence". Could it be that the case was not investigated enough???

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


Depends on the definition of "alarm bell". IMO

We don't know what was told to SB by Mary Lauterbach in the beginning. We don't know that she gave him any more information than 3 pages of reasons why Maria could/would have left on her own. We don't know how she classified the rape investigation or if she even said anything about it. We also don't know if she EVER told SB about Cesar or the MPO or did they only find out about it when they found her car on 1/7. Adults can and do leave every day and they're not required to tell anybody where they're going. [/*]

Regardless of what ML's mother said.. LE should check out all options.. as in going to her place of residence, #1. Neighbors said they weren't interviewed for several weeks. The only thing I can see that was done was hospitals were checked.. and oh yeah, ditches. And then everyone went on Christmas vacation.

JMO

[gaelicpeas]

Originally posted by AnnieBean
WHICH MEANS, WOULD WE EVEN BE POSTING ABOUT THIS HAD IT NOT BEEN FOR NC LE GOING TO THE MEDIA FOR "HELP"???


Would we even know about it? [/*]

We certainly would not have the level of information we have now (which I agree is inconsistent).

I think LE did the right thing contacting the media. I think they should have done it, though, several weeks earlier. JMO

[hinman]

Originally posted by AnnieBean
BROWN: This has not taken so long to start an investigation. The investigation started immediately. But we don't make it a habit in the investigative field to call for the assistance of the media, which we did in this case, until we saw the case may have needed some notoriety in the public to bring the witnesses forward.

Quote from the transcript above-

SNIPPED:

WHICH MEANS, WOULD WE EVEN BE POSTING ABOUT THIS HAD IT NOT BEEN FOR NC LE GOING TO THE MEDIA FOR "HELP"???


Would we even know about it? [/*]We probably would not know about it had it not been brought out when she was found. That is when it was brought out that she had accused Laurean of rape. Before that they were saying she was going to testify in a case.

[hinman]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


Regardless of what ML's mother said.. LE should check out all options.. as in going to her place of residence, #1. Neighbors said they weren't interviewed for several weeks. The only thing I can see that was done was hospitals were checked.. and oh yeah, ditches. And then everyone went on Christmas vacation.

JMO [/*]Very true Gaelic. Nothing else was done at first Cl I don't think was even interviewed until Mary notified LE.

[Maka]

Originally posted by caejde
Maka, I'm so sorry I totally misunderstood your post. Please forgive me. When you said "inventory", I just automatically went into my personal effects mode...so my apologies. I do understand what you mean. People that don't have wills, still have property and it has to be settled. Gotcha! Thanks again for correcting me! [/*]

NP no worries...just finally figured out where we were splitting paths...I wasn't mad or anything...sorry if I sounded grumpy! :rose:

(...even with a will, someone still has to go through all your personal stuff so make a list of all your off shore accounts, safe deposit boxes, your diamond encrusted shoes and stuff in your junk drawers! it really helps!) moo

[baywench]

Originally posted by Jas.S


It's incorrect.

There were rape allegations made which, imo, the marines did not believe.

Rape charge is a whole different thing.

We cannot be mixing those up here. [/*]

I have to agree with you Jas. The use of rape "charges" is what keeps put us into the never ending loop of arguing back and forth. It is an important distinction IMO

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by AnnieBean
BROWN: This has not taken so long to start an investigation. The investigation started immediately. But we don't make it a habit in the investigative field to call for the assistance of the media, which we did in this case, until we saw the case may have needed some notoriety in the public to bring the witnesses forward.

Quote from the transcript above-

this is what I mean- what had they done so far except verify she was not where she was supposed to be?

Did you see the part where the reporter asks him about the charges she was supposed to testify about coming up - Brown said well "hes not concerned about that right now"...??? If he had followed up on that in the first couple days, it would have led him to Maria w/out involving the media at all-

WHICH MEANS, WOULD WE EVEN BE POSTING ABOUT THIS HAD IT NOT BEEN FOR NC LE GOING TO THE MEDIA FOR "HELP"???


Would we even know about it? [/*]

IMO, probably not and Maria would still be buried in Laurean's backyard. Just stop and think of the dates everything started to happen with the OCSD. Was it only NOW that Cesar was feeling the heat?

January 7th ~ Maria's car found; Maria's mother and uncle arrive at Camp Lejeune

January 8th ~ LE wants to talk with Laurean and he says basically no

January 9, 10 ~ Laurean takes the day(s) off to meet with his lawyers; Christina is asked on the morning of the 10th if she's 'with him on this"

January 11 ~ Laurean skips town

From the MC PC on 1/15:

Up until the time Onslow County Sheriff Ed Brown announced that Lance Cpl. Maria Lauterbach was dead, Marine Corps officials said they believed she had disappeared on her own accord.

"We all thought, all of us, that she had left on her own free will and that she was going to be found," said Lt. Col. Curtis Hill, spokesman for II Marine Expeditionary Force.

"At no point prior to Jan. 11 ... did we feel that Lance Cpl. Lauterbach was anything other than (on unauthorized absence)."

http://www.jdnews.com/articles/marine_54384___article.html/cpl_laurean.html


So, IMO, had the pressure not been put on Laurean, they ALL would still believe that Maria was had 'disappeared on her own accord".

[strick10]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


We certainly would not have the level of information we have now (which I agree is inconsistent).

I think LE did the right thing contacting the media. I think they should have done it, though, several weeks earlier. JMO [/*]

Let me ask you this gpeas as I truely do not know much about how the civilian LE works in areas such as these. Is it the norm if a civilian female disappears that the LE would immediately begin looking for her if she were a witness to something?

[BarbraAllen]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


But...can your mind even GO THERE? Him and Christina sitting on the sofa together, clutching each others hand scared poopieless
what kind of people have this as their reality? God this is just
bizarre stuff. You wrote a book about this nobody would beleive a word of it, its so weird. JMO. [/*]

And the Christmas tree lit, gifts under the tree maybe?

The Sheriff called it "bizarre" iirc. I wonder if there is a word that would mean MORE BIZARRE than simply BIZARRE.

[hinman]

Originally posted by strick10


Let me ask you this gpeas as I truely do not know much about how the civilian LE works in areas such as these. Is it the norm if a civilian female disappears that the LE would immediately begin looking for her if she were a witness to something? [/*]I would hope so if she had pressed rape charges against someone and was pregnant.

I mean I would hope they looked at all avenues. Lately a lot of women have went missing willingly but it was still investigated on all avenues.

[baywench]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


Yes. Apparently nobody was left at the "inn".

While on their way to holiday festivities, am sure they peeked out the windows at the ditches as they rode by...

Seriously, they could have saved themselves alot of PREHOLIDAY blues if they had asked the MC- whats been going on with this girl? Whats in your records?

But...I do understand, she was an adult and maybe her own personal rights blocked their ability to get some info. maybe theres some policy and law there that needs to be looked at too.

Maybe we shouldn't have the right to "just disappear" if we feel like it, because it steps on the rights of people who might be victims. Seriously, think about that for a minute. [/*]

There have been two cases in the news recently where women left of their own accord. There were searches and eventually the women were found and no charges were filed because it is not against the law to leave. IMO

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by old_lady


Jas, please try to calm down. That is just the way posters are putting it. It is not a big deal. The MC WAS investigating rape allegations. It could be said rape case or charges.

jmoo [/*]

I disagree. It is a big deal. When posters who don't read here every day check in and see that, they are thinking there was actually a charge brought forth and it was pretty clear they lacked anything to bring such a charge from my POV. :shrug:

Charge gives the reader a different take on what is questionable at best IMO. There has never been anything to confirm this and the USMC has stated the story told by Maria had inconsistencies IIRC. :shrug:

jmo

[henry]

Originally posted by BarbraAllen


And the Christmas tree lit, gifts under the tree maybe?

The Sheriff called it "bizarre" iirc. I wonder if there is a word that would mean MORE BIZARRE than simply BIZARRE. [/*]

yup . . . there are lots of words . . . but it would get me kicked off the board . . . can you hear me saying them now :cuss:

[hinman]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


I disagree. It is a big deal. When posters who don't read here every day check in and see that, they are thinking there was actually a charge brought forth and it was pretty clear they lacked anything to bring such a charge from my POV. :shrug:

Charge gives the reader a different take on what is questionable at best IMO. There has never been anything to confirm this and the USMC has stated the story told by Maria had inconsistencies IIRC. :shrug:

jmo [/*]Didn't maria press rape charges against CL or am I misunderstanding this I thought they were investigating the charges that Maria alleged happened.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


I don't think so either...


what WAS LE doing from the time Mrs Lauterbach rang the alarm bell till the media got ahold of this?

I mean- really? SB thought she was still alive the day he went on TV. Hadn't they investigated anything yet? I am really :shrug: about this!!! [/*]

AB, I feel sure IN THE BEGINNING OCSD thought this was a case of a female pregnant Marine who had simply gone UA due to a phone call received from her mother, along with other factors----considering DD had found the note from Maria and some of her items were gone from his home. (I'm not defending OCSD, nor do I think this was right, just trying to give you a perspective and from what I have been told locally.) Also normally whenever a Marine goes UA there isn't a big hullabaloo about it either. From what I understand when a Marine goes UA, they normally return to their familiar area, in this case Ohio.

I do think OCSD was working on this case but they, at first, weren't getting any cooperation from the MC. All they had to go on was what NCIS and her mother told them. There had been calls placed to Maria's unit (CWO Wright, IIRC) but no return calls were received and then finally the investigator, Dubois, went to SB and told him of the frustrations with the lack of communication from Maria's unit.

Then you have the activity on Maria's account, the first being on 12/14 and the second on 12/24 (and I'm sure it took time for the bank to get a copy of the ATM footage and of course the bank wanted a SW too.) Until they saw it wasn't Maria on the 12/24 W/D they most likely assumed it was Maria making the withdrawal.

There's a lot going on in my house so I have basically lost my train of thought. Sorry.

JMO

[mini-me]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


And that is one of many problems in this case. There was not a formal investigation of the missing persons case, #1. As in, going to her home (Durham's house) and investigating. Talking to his neighbors, etc. They checked hospitals and ditches. IOW, they based all of their investigation on ML's note.

There are things that both LE and the MC/NCIS botched. I realize there are lots of folks here that are military or military-related, or believe ML made false rape allegations, etc, etc. But, seriously, the level of investigation when a missing pregnant woman who went missing and had made a rape allegation is astounding to me. JMO. [/*]I agree with everything you said. When all is said a nd done Maria paid the ultimate price for having anything to do Cesar.

[hinman]

Originally posted by hinman
Didn't maria press rape charges against CL or am I misunderstanding this I thought they were investigating the charges that Maria alleged happened. [/*] actually you know what I think this is so petty that it is not even worth arguing about so I am just going to drop it and let it be.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by AnnieBean


:D Outback. Still have the whole baked potato to eat tonight.

But reading back on the link above, alot of what Brown was saying to the media initially turned out to be so far off the mark- and they say they HAD ALREADY BEEN INVESTIGATING IT for some time, only got the media involved to have the "plea" for Maria to return via TV to get aired- :eek: I never knew THAT piece of info.

He said they were "close" friends, but he didn't really know that (yet). He was still making alot of assumptions the day he made that Press Conference statement.

I never thought about it till just this minute- you all are light years ahead of me- but you know when Brown stepped "down' so to speak, said he was exhausted blah blah and Rick s. stepped up to the plate? Well at the time I felt sorry for him and thought he looked physically sick, too stressed...etc
Now that I look back on what he said in the transcripts, I think they might have been like look, Brown, you have had this investigation since (date) and this is what you have? The media have asked better questions in 2 days than you all have investigated- then her body is found- and they say look, you botched this, her body should not have been in the ground that long this could have been solved, balh blah YOU STEP DOWN NOW.

Have some of you been saying this for awhile now and I am just catching on today? [/*]

I don't believe that is true Annie. IMO if we asked Captain Sutherland about that he will tell us all that Sheriff Ed Brown is very much in charge of this investigation and will continue to be until it is over with a trial being held.

I still say the MC/NCIS and OCSD had evidence at the time that pointed to Maria leaving on her own. They can only go by the evidence of what they knew at the time and at that time imo everything pointed to her being alive.

Only on Jan 11th did they have a much different kind of evidence and found Maria and Gabriel's bodies within a short period of time.



imoo

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by hinman
actually you know what I think this is so petty that it is not even worth arguing about so I am just going to drop it and let it be. [/*]

hinman, I don't think it or any one person is petty on this. We just need to use the proper terminology as one term presumes a crime occurred and the other says it was an unproven allegation.

As far as this case goes, the rape accusation was an allegation made by Maria, but the USMC was the entity who could charge, and they made a statement indicating there were inconsistencies, but they were still trying to investigate.


JMO tho.
:shrug:

Any rape case I have ever followed here, we were required to call the defendant "alleged rapist" even after charged.

[strick10]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I don't believe that is true Annie. IMO if we asked Captain Sutherland about that he will tell us all that Sheriff Ed Brown is very much in charge of this investigation and will continue to be until it is over with a trial being held.

I still say the MC/NCIS and OCSD had evidence at the time that pointed to Maria leaving on her own. They can only go by the evidence of what they knew at the time and at that time imo everything pointed to her being alive.

Only on Jan 11th did they have a much different kind of evidence and found Maria and Gabriel's bodies within a short period of time.

imoo [/*]

Exactly. Even I thought, based on what was released at the begining and the evidence that was presented in the media, that Maria may have just taken off to clear her head and regroup.

[strick10]

AnnieB you have me craving OB.....:D

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by baywench


I have to agree with you Jas. The use of rape "charges" is what keeps put us into the never ending loop of arguing back and forth. It is an important distinction IMO [/*]

Ditto to both of you on that.

[hinman]

Originally posted by CANDYKISSES


hinman, I don't think it or any one person is petty on this. We just need to use the proper terminology as one term presumes a crime occurred and the other says it was an unproven allegation.

As far as this case goes, the rape accusation was an allegation made by Maria, but the USMC was the entity who could charge, and they made a statement indicating there were inconsistencies, but they were still trying to investigate.


JMO tho.
:shrug:

Any rape case I have ever followed here, we were required to call the defendant "alleged rapist" even after charged. [/*]Ck
I really don't want to debate the difference in words.

I never called CL a rapist, I never said he was charged I said they were investigating the charges, in my mind Maria made charges against CL. I then corrected that later in a post and said I probably shouldn't say charges but allegations.

The poster has pointed it out more then once.

To me this is getting petty sorry JMO.

[strick10]

Originally posted by Jas.S


And it is what her family believed too at first, no? [/*]

Correct.

[CANDYKISSES]

Originally posted by mini-me
I agree with everything you said. When all is said a nd done Maria paid the ultimate price for having anything to do Cesar. [/*]

That said, IF LISA was telling the truth when she intereviewed on AC360 and Maria had left before, and she was known to have credibility issues, and they had a note saying she couldn't take Marine life with nothing in the house amiss or showing signs of a struggle, I don't know I would have expected them to put it all together. JMO.

Fast forward, when they found out about an upsetting call with her mother where her mother was telling her she had to give the baby up, then I THINK A HIGH ALERT should have gone out if they knew she was out of sorts and possibly running off pregnant with a viable fetus.

BUT that is JMO.

[nuttintodo]

Can we all agree to just call it rape allegation(s)? That should help alleviate all the misunderstandings and/or arguing.

PLEASE do not misconstrue that I am defending CAL as I am NOT!

Until there is a trial (and a conclusion to the trial) everything is simply ALLEGATIONS.

And I'm not trying to start any argument, just a simple suggestion.

Nothing more, nothing less.

JMO

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas


Regardless of what ML's mother said.. LE should check out all options.. as in going to her place of residence, #1. Neighbors said they weren't interviewed for several weeks. The only thing I can see that was done was hospitals were checked.. and oh yeah, ditches. And then everyone went on Christmas vacation.

JMO [/*]

And didn't most of those neighbors say they didn't even realize she lived there with Durham? And if they did know she lived there, what could they have added to the investigation? That they saw her pack a suitcase and put it in her car and drive off? Would that have led LE to another conclusion than leaving on her own?

And if they had seen something out of the ordinary, where does it preclude them from contacting LE on their own? Or does everybody just sit around and wait for LE to come to their house?

[hinman]

cous?Originally posted by crymeariver2006


And didn't most of those neighbors say they didn't even realize she lived there with Durham? And if they did know she lived there, what could they have added to the investigation? That they saw her pack a suitcase and put it in her car and drive off? Would that have led LE to another conclusion than leaving on her own?

And if they had seen something out of the ordinary, where does it preclude them from contacting LE on their own? Or does everybody just sit around and wait for LE to come to their house? [/*]What about interviewing CL and if he refused wouldn't that make them suspicious?

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by strick10


Exactly. Even I thought, based on what was released at the beginning and the evidence that was presented in the media, that Maria may have just taken off to clear her head and regroup. [/*]

Hi Strick!

I remember when this case first broke on the news and here the majority really thought that Maria had just said "to heck with it all, I am out of here" and felt she would be found safe and sound.

So I don't fault the investigators who were given information that tended to show the same.

And I do believe it was Maria's full intentions to do just that and leave it all behind. Why she decided to come to Laurean's house first we may never know but I hope we do.

imoo

[SavannahStar]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I don't believe that is true Annie. IMO if we asked Captain Sutherland about that he will tell us all that Sheriff Ed Brown is very much in charge of this investigation and will continue to be until it is over with a trial being held.

I still say the MC/NCIS and OCSD had evidence at the time that pointed to Maria leaving on her own. They can only go by the evidence of what they knew at the time and at that time imo everything pointed to her being alive.

Only on Jan 11th did they have a much different kind of evidence and found Maria and Gabriel's bodies within a short period of time.



imoo [/*]

:beer: Well said, as always, GB.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by GentleBreeze


I don't believe that is true Annie. IMO if we asked Captain Sutherland about that he will tell us all that Sheriff Ed Brown is very much in charge of this investigation and will continue to be until it is over with a trial being held.

I still say the MC/NCIS and OCSD had evidence at the time that pointed to Maria leaving on her own. They can only go by the evidence of what they knew at the time and at that time imo everything pointed to her being alive.

Only on Jan 11th did they have a much different kind of evidence and found Maria and Gabriel's bodies within a short period of time.



imoo [/*]

Ocean, this is going back, way back, but do you remember when SB made the comment that the person you live with and have day to day contact with, usually knows more about you and your habits than anyone else?

JMO

[sunstar]

Originally posted by gaelicpeas
I have been thinking about the rape allegations. We really won't ever know if there was a rape because, unfortunately, one person in the he said/she said is dead... and the other one is not to be found.

We will know the paternity and fetal age, hopefully (eventually), so we should be able to determine whether the baby was CL's and when the conception date was (or at least hopefully a good estimate).

I rarely contribute to the rape allegation discussion because of this. To me, it is irrelevant, but that is JMO. I am more interested in the murder... but I realize other people have different interests.

Just my 2 cents and all that jazz... [/*]
Good evening :seeya: I agree the rape allegation is really not the primary focus now that Maria has been brutally murdered and CL is still at large. It just comes into discussion in trying to figure out (at least for me) why Maria was at his house that night and how she got there. If Maria and CL were having an ongoing relationship before her pregnancy and continued to communicate with each other even though she'd filed charges against him with the USMC, it would go to explaining why she was at his house. There's just so many pieces of the puzzle we don't have ~ like what put together the events leading up to her death. :(

[hinman]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Ocean, this is going back, way back, but do you remember when SB made the comment that the person you live with and have day to day contact with, usually knows more about you and your habits than anyone else?

JMO [/*]I remember him saying that. That is when they were bringing him back to reinterview.

[baywench]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


AB, I feel sure IN THE BEGINNING OCSD thought this was a case of a female pregnant Marine who had simply gone UA due to a phone call received from her mother, along with other factors----considering DD had found the note from Maria and some of her items were gone from his home. (I'm not defending OCSD, nor do I think this was right, just trying to give you a perspective and from what I have been told locally.) Also normally whenever a Marine goes UA there isn't a big hullabaloo about it either. From what I understand when a Marine goes UA, they normally return to their familiar area, in this case Ohio.

I do think OCSD was working on this case but they, at first, weren't getting any cooperation from the MC. All they had to go on was what NCIS and her mother told them. There had been calls placed to Maria's unit (CWO Wright, IIRC) but no return calls were received and then finally the investigator, Dubois, went to SB and told him of the frustrations with the lack of communication from Maria's unit.

Then you have the activity on Maria's account, the first being on 12/14 and the second on 12/24 (and I'm sure it took time for the bank to get a copy of the ATM footage and of course the bank wanted a SW too.) Until they saw it wasn't Maria on the 12/24 W/D they most likely assumed it was Maria making the withdrawal.

There's a lot going on in my house so I have basically lost my train of thought. Sorry.

JMO [/*]

Good train nuttin. Without the hindsight this was an unremarkable case. A girl leaves, leaves a note takes some things....that's it. I am sure if they looked around there was no evidence of foul play, Maria was a Marine IMO there isn't much to investigate at that point. As you say, the activity on her bank account would be proof of life also until the ATM pictures came back. I don't think anyone said "OK....it's Christmas...let's get outta here!" imo

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by nuttintodo
Can we all agree to just call it rape allegation(s)? That should help alleviate all the misunderstandings and/or arguing.

PLEASE do not misconstrue that I am defending CAL as I am NOT!

Until there is a trial (and a conclusion to the trial) everything is simply ALLEGATIONS.

And I'm not trying to start any argument, just a simple suggestion.

Nothing more, nothing less.

JMO [/*]

Sounds logical to me, Nuttin:seeya:

[strick10]

Originally posted by Jas.S


Thank you.

So if even her family thought she had just gone off to regroup, I am not sure what we are saying LE did wrong? :confused: [/*]

Based on the information and evidence available at the time I'd have to say LE did what they saw fit. I think some wish that LE or whomever had jumped right on it and found her sooner even though the end result would probably still have been the same. Unfortunately, all indications at that time were that she had left on her own.

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by hinman
cous?What about interviewing CL and if he refused wouldn't that make them suspicious? [/*]

The attempt to interview CAL was IIRC on January 8th, well after Maria was first reported missing on 12/19.

And that is one of the questions that was submitted to RS today--after his refusal did CAL become a POI and/or considered a flight risk.

JMO

[hinman]

Originally posted by sunstar

Good evening :seeya: I agree the rape allegation is really not the primary focus now that Maria has been brutally murdered and CL is still at large. It just comes into discussion in trying to figure out (at least for me) why Maria was at his house that night and how she got there. If Maria and CL were having an ongoing relationship before her pregnancy and continued to communicate with each other even though she'd filed charges against him with the USMC, it would go to explaining why she was at his house. There's just so many pieces of the puzzle we don't have ~ like what put together the events leading up to her death. :( [/*]Sunstar I agree. I keep going over it because to me it could be the main reason for the murder. I think it will play a major part in the case. Could be wrong though.

[crymeariver2006]

Originally posted by hinman
cous?What about interviewing CL and if he refused wouldn't that make them suspicious? [/*]

I've said that all along. Even if the MC wasn't forthcoming with information (as is the norm with government entities), to be sure Mary Lauterbach knew of the rape allegations, who was accused, and that there was a protective order in place. She claims after the fact that she knew all this but then we have the OCSD shocked to find an MPO in Maria's car with Cesar's name on it. Why is that?

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


Ocean, this is going back, way back, but do you remember when SB made the comment that the person you live with and have day to day contact with, usually knows more about you and your habits than anyone else?

JMO [/*]

Yes, I do. I believe he was talking about why they wanted to talk to DD, right?

imoo

[Lynn Gweeny]

Originally posted by Jas.S


And it is what her family believed too at first, no? [/*]

That's debatable, I guess, since originally the Lauterbach family was told to stay in Ohio.

Mary Lauterbach and her brother planned to travel to North Carolina on Dec. 21, but investigators “asked us to stay put because they really thought maybe she was frustrated and she would be coming back to town.”

http://www.oxfordpress.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/homefront/entries/2008/01/10/



The case only started to heat up when Mary Lauterbach and her brother, Kentucky psychiatrist Dr. Peter Steiner, showed up at the base on Jan. 7 accompanied by an Onslow County sheriff's detective.

The Marine Corps later contended, "This the first indication to the command that foul play may be suspected in her absence."

That's nonsense, Mary Lauterbach now says: "From Day 1, I voiced that concern."

But things finally seemed to be happening. That same day — 25 days after Lauterbach vanished — Laurean was brought to NCIS to speak with the sheriff's office. "He is questioned as a possible witness, not a suspect," the Marine Corps said.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2008/01/20/ddn012008mariainside.html

[hinman]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


I've said that all along. Even if the MC wasn't forthcoming with information (as is the norm with government entities), to be sure Mary Lauterbach knew of the rape allegations, who was accused, and that there was a protective order in place. She claims after the fact that she knew all this but then we have the OCSD shocked to find an MPO in Maria's car with Cesar's name on it. Why is that? [/*]Cryme I have wondered that all along also. How come Durham did not inform them of CL when they first interviewed. I just do not get that part.

[GentleBreeze]

Originally posted by crymeariver2006


I've said that all along. Even if the MC wasn't forthcoming with information (as is the norm with government entities), to be sure Mary Lauterbach knew of the rape allegations, who was accused, and that there was a protective order in place. She claims after the fact that she knew all this but then we have the OCSD shocked to find an MPO in Maria's car with Cesar's name on it. Why is that? [/*]

Surely that is one of the first things she put in her three page email, right? Or was it even mentioned at all?

I agree........they seemed very surprised.

imoo

[nuttintodo]

Originally posted by strick10


Based on the information and evidence available at the time I'd have to say LE did what they saw fit. I think some wish that LE or whomever had jumped right on it and found her sooner even though the end result would probably still have been the same. Unfortunately, all indications at that time were that she had left on her own. [/*]

The end result would have been the same since Maria was murdered on 12/14 (as LE says) or 12/15 (as her family says) and she wasn't reported missing until 12/19---that's a period of 4 to 5 days in between.

And perhaps if Maria's body was found earlier, maybe more forensic evidence could have been collected and maybe there wouldn't have been so many BBQ's or fires done over her body.

JMO

[baywench]

Originally posted by hinman
Cryme I have wondered that all along also. How come Durham did not inform them of CL when they first interviewed. I just do not get that part. [/*]

Maybe it is possible that Durham didn't know about CL. If she were still having a relationship with him she wouldn't tell Durham he raped her. No yelling please...;this just occurred to me and I am thinking aloud JMO

[hinman]

Originally posted by nuttintodo


The end result would have been the same since Maria was murdered on 12/14 (as LE says) or 12/15 (as her family says) and she wasn't reported missing until 12/19---that's a period of 4 to 5 days in between.

And perhaps if Maria's body was found earlier, maybe more forensic evidence could have been collected and maybe there wouldn't have been so many BBQ's or fires done over her body.

JMO [/*]And Maybe Cl would be in custody.