Discussion - March 12th.

[n/t]

Good Morning all,

Christine has answered some of the questions we've been asking.

*Some one asked about him having a camera on him. No he wouldn’t since I’m the photographer in the family not Nicholas.

*Nicholas would take the viaduct (hwy 99), cross the bridge over the duamish (sp?) river onto hwy 509 and either stay on 509 or get off on hwy 518. logically he would have gotten off 509 and onto hwy 518 because there is an exit to south center (tukwilla area) where the costco is. it would have been a wast of his time and gas to just stay on 509 to go to costco. he never ever took the freeway (I-5) home because it was far from where he worked and always backed up. if he had made it to costco he should have been home no later than 7ish.

*He did not have a passport that I am aware of.


I'm not from the area so I can't really comment on the second point, however, just wondering what he would take if he went right home and not Costco and/or if he went to Safeway instead.

Also, considering authorities believe he never got to Costco what other route would he have taken. Did he friends in the area? Family? Any other store that he may have decided to go to instead of Costco or Safeway to get the sugar?

http://thefranciscos.com/

I continue to hope for his safe return. :rose:

[n/t]

Also,

It is known that Nicholas has/had a great online presence, being involved with many boards. If you have chatted with Nicholas online please contact either myself, call 911 or contact the webmaster at findnicholasfrancisco.com. I don’t know all of whom he chatted with online so knowing the last time you chatted with him could be very helpful. If you chatted with him and you know where he is please contact someone listed above, you can do it anonymously if you choose. I need to find him no matter the outcome. (For those of you who think i think he ran off just based on my asking for info you can think again because i still don’t think he ran off.)

http://thefranciscos.com/

[n/t]

Flyer has been corrected to read approx. 6:10 pm.

http://www.findnicholasfrancisco.com/

[n/t]

Other Costco he could've gone to? Maybe to beat traffic, he decided going a different route would save him time and by that time traffic would've cleared up in the direction he was headed - home?

I know sometimes I take a different route (against traffic) eventhough I know it's further but would rather do it that way than sit in traffic.

Thoughts?

[n/t]

Christine, if you're reading this, can you clarify the storage unit sighting. It was apparently dismissed as a false sighting, however did authorities or anyone check it out anyway?

[dianaelaine]

Christine:

I would think that the condos might hold an answer, clue, tip or hint ... as to what happened to Nicholas.

Is there any way that you can find family, friends, etc. ... with permission from LE if it's needed, to go back and talk to everybody again?

Or can you bug LE to do it?

And also include the nearby apartments too, along with that neighborhood in general.

DON'T give up NOW!

[n/t]

This is the link Christine posted.

http://www.zappos.com/n/p/dp/30957996.html

[Old Timer]

Originally posted by n/t
This is the link Christine posted.

http://www.zappos.com/n/p/dp/30957996.html [/*]

Thanks n/t

*he always carries his laptop with him in a gray sleeve and then puts that into his orange and gray messenger bag. similar to this but gray and orange, made by this maker though. http://www.zappos.com/n/p/dp/30957996.html

--------------------------------
Here is a similar looking pre-owned bag for sale on eBay – Timbuk2 Laptop Messenger Bag, Color: Gray-Orange-Gray

Fits computers with dimensions not to exceed
Apple 12" and15" Aluminum PowerBook, Mac Book Pro; standard pc laptops with dimensions up to 14.2in x 10in x 1.80in

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Custom-Timbuk-2-Laptop-Messenger-Bag-SIZE-MED-15-in_W0QQitemZ230230058735QQihZ013QQcategoryZ52361QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
----------------------------------

This one is on craigslist (San Diego) but is brand new
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/bik/603568992.html

[field of snow]

Good Morning!

Just a quick hello. I will be away most of the day missing discussion. I hope it gets resolved while I am out!

I'll check back later tonight.

[desmom]

Is dumpster diving allowed in Seattle? Following the foul play scenario...Would the attacker try to hock NF's computer or cell phone or toss them to distant himself from anything associated with NF?

Did LE or the PI check pawn shops, computer repair/resale shops, 2nd hand stores and flea markets for NF's computer and cell phone?

Following the he walked scenario....Did NF ever talk about someday I would love to live in..........? What other fields besides advertising could NF use his education?

Has he recently been in contact with any old friends or did he speak of any new friends?

[n/t]

Originally posted by field of snow
Good Morning!

Just a quick hello. I will be away most of the day missing discussion. I hope it gets resolved while I am out!

I'll check back later tonight. [/*]

Have a good day!

Sadly, doesn't sound like it'll be resolved anytime soon. It's like it was just put on the back burner. Anyway, that's the feeling I get.

[n/t]

If they've stopped looking, how the heck are they going to find him.

There are so many things that can still be done! More searches. Even searching the same places they did before.

Why isn't anyone doing anything? IIRC, the last time there was a search was 2 weeks ago. It'll be one month tomorrow since his disappearance.

[huskiki]

Good Morning Everyone :seeya:

You did a great job gathering information this morning n/t, as you do every morning.

Hoping for Nicholas' safe return :rose:

[Shelby1]

Good research, N/T.

I hope he is found soon. Hopefully one of his online friends will come forward with some information.

[YellowRose49]

I read this with particular interest (thanks n/t for supplying this info): " I don’t know all of whom he chatted with online so knowing the last time you chatted with him could be very helpful. If you chatted with him and you know where he is please contact someone listed above, you can do it anonymously if you choose. I need to find him no matter the outcome. (For those of you who think i think he ran off just based on my asking for info you can think again because i still don’t think he ran off.)'

Christine begins by saying what a presence NF had online, with several message boards. Then she goes on to ask those who have spoken to him to come forth. Then she asks if they know where he is, to come forth, "anonymously if you choose".

Then she has the comment that she needs to find him no matter what the outcome, explaining that it is for those who think he ran off, although she doesn't think he did.

I think this: I think she HIGHLY suspects that this is exactly what he did. She knows something she is not sharing with anyone, IMO. The more she "speaks" the more apparent it becomes that she is on the defensive about something.

The church connection - the condo complex. All tied in somehow.

I asked someone from this site if they'd (police)checked his computer at home or at the office. Apparently, I guess, he must have used him laptop for home and work (unless someone knows something different?) and thus all that info is missing along with Nicholas and the computer. Christine mentions that he was on many boards, yet she claims to not know which ones. Did he tell her that he was on many boards?

Just random thoughts trying to come through to make sense of a senseless scenario.

[invreporter1105]

:)

Hi everyone. I am beginning to follow this case. I have read some of the details related to the disappearance of Nicholas. I understand that he always carried a laptop pc with him at all times. I have found one profile for Nicholas on a professional networking site.

I was curious if anyone knows of any other online sites that Nicholas may have had profiles on or that he may have used?

Thanks-
invreporter

[KKKKKKatie]

Originally posted by invreporter1105
:)

Hi everyone. I am beginning to follow this case. I have read some of the details related to the disappearance of Nicholas. I understand that he always carried a laptop pc with him at all times. I have found one profile for Nicholas on a professional networking site.

I was curious if anyone knows of any other online sites that Nicholas may have had profiles on or that he may have used?

Thanks-
invreporter [/*]

You can check the links thread. I believe there are some posted there

[Hubbard]

Originally posted by dianaelaine
Christine:

I would think that the condos might hold an answer, clue, tip or hint ... as to what happened to Nicholas.

Is there any way that you can find family, friends, etc. ... with permission from LE if it's needed, to go back and talk to everybody again?

Or can you bug LE to do it?

And also include the nearby apartments too, along with that neighborhood in general.

DON'T give up NOW! [/*]

I also think recent condo sales in that complex should be considered. There was a sale on 2/15/08. It probably is not relevant but it might be worth considering IMO.

[KKKKKKatie]

Originally posted by EG~Lives
I just can't get past the feeling that he walked away.


And, I know this has be hashed to death in the beginning, but WHO GOES TO COSTCO FOR SUGAR??

:confused: [/*]

I sure wouldn't if that was the only thing I needed and it was late. It takes way to long to get thru there IMO

[YellowRose49]

http://voxpopnetwork.com/westseattle/2008/02/17/urgent-message-regarding-nicholas-francisco/


I hadn't realized that there was such support offered by their former church, although - while reading the responses on the site, I noted some that expressed doubt and Christine jumped right down their throats. Anyway, sounds like the church did a lot to get financial support going for the family in Nic's absence.

Didn't Christine remove all links from the church on her site or something? Just curious and too lazy to do my own research this morning.

[SHinS]

Originally posted by n/t
Good Morning all,

Christine has answered some of the questions we've been asking.

*Some one asked about him having a camera on him. No he wouldn’t since I’m the photographer in the family not Nicholas.

*Nicholas would take the viaduct (hwy 99), cross the bridge over the duamish (sp?) river onto hwy 509 and either stay on 509 or get off on hwy 518. logically he would have gotten off 509 and onto hwy 518 because there is an exit to south center (tukwilla area) where the costco is. it would have been a wast of his time and gas to just stay on 509 to go to costco. he never ever took the freeway (I-5) home because it was far from where he worked and always backed up. if he had made it to costco he should have been home no later than 7ish.

[/*]



Hello everyone, I'm new here :seeya:



How can CF know those things for sure?
IMO and realistically sepaking, she can't.
Even if she knew his routine, she isn't him therefore can't say with certainty that "he never ever took the freeway[...]"or wouldn't have done this or that, etc.


"No he wouldn't since I am the photographer in the family"
That statement sounds odd.
I've noticed that she always talks for/about him with such certainty that is quite peculiar.
The wording... just seems like she's the commanding bossy type, so much that she'd know everything about him, which again, is impossible.

I remember seeing pictures on his flickr account that looked like they were randomly taken in alleys, streets, etc.
Weren't those pictures taken by him? If yes, wouldn't that automatically suggest he could have very well carried a camera w/ him the day of his disappearance as well?
My point here is that it's possible he carried a camera w/him(at all times) or in his car that she just didn't know about... in case there'd be something interesting to photograph.



My guess is that NF simply left.
Whether CF knows something in regards to his disappearance or not, her actions(or the lack of there of) are highly unusual.
Who gives up hope and is ready to move on after only 3 weeks?
I don't understand that.
:confused:


Let's keep hope alive and pray for his safe return :rose:

[Hubbard]

Originally posted by desmom
Is dumpster diving allowed in Seattle? Following the foul play scenario...Would the attacker try to hock NF's computer or cell phone or toss them to distant himself from anything associated with NF?

Did LE or the PI check pawn shops, computer repair/resale shops, 2nd hand stores and flea markets for NF's computer and cell phone?

Following the he walked scenario....Did NF ever talk about someday I would love to live in..........? What other fields besides advertising could NF use his education?

Has he recently been in contact with any old friends or did he speak of any new friends? [/*]

I have been thinking about how he might generate income without revealing his indentity. If he could do his work behind the monitor and not have to face his clients, it would be much easier. I could see him teaming up with someone else to sell graphics/fonts online or under contract. His "partner" would be the "face" person, when needed, and could provide the SSN for the billing/payment.

[desmom]

Originally posted by EG~Lives
I just can't get past the feeling that he walked away.


And, I know this has be hashed to death in the beginning, but WHO GOES TO COSTCO FOR SUGAR??

:confused: [/*]

LOL! My thoughts exactly.

Christine has organic sugar scrubs on her site. I have never heard of sugar scrubs, but I am old.

I found a site with sugar scrub recipes and yep the do call for sugar in the recipe.

Costco probably sells organic sugar in bulk and also cheaper than the grocer.

jmo

[Hubbard]

The old saying "Nothing is for certain except death and taxes."

Like Christine, we all say things with a degree of certainty. I am glad to see her offer insight that may help with bringing Nicholas home. I don't expect her to be 110% certain before offering input.

I have seen alot of reference to Christine giving up. I am not certain how valid that assumption is. It is very likely that there are things Christine and LE know that we do not and need not.

[desmom]

Originally posted by Hubbard


The old saying "Nothing is for certain except death and taxes."

Like Christine, we all say things with a degree of certainty. I am glad to see her offer insight that may help with bringing Nicholas home. I don't expect her to be 110% certain before offering input.

I have seen alot of reference to Christine giving up. I am not certain how valid that assumption is. It is very likely that there are things Christine and LE know that we do not and need not. [/*]

When I first started reading her comments re: posts here and WS I thought it was kind of odd. If LE does not have any leads to follow, what better place to check for possible scenarios than a crime board. We have discussed this case and scenarios inside out and backwards.

IMO there have been a lot of great questions posted that Christine could discuss with LE and maybe (keeping my fingers crossed) will lead to finding Nicholas.

ETA ~ Thanks Christine for answering our questions.

moo

[YellowRose49]

http://agencyspy.wordpress.com/2008/03/04/lay-offs-at-publicis-west/#comments

I just found this info, mentioning the layoffs and info on Nicholas, right after he came up missing, and then some other info that had me kind of chuckling (Under the Dark side of Publicis).

Still checking sites that Nic may have been on to see what I can find.

[SHinS]

What brand was NF's cell phone?

[figritout]

I just wanted to than CF for providing information. I wake up every morning turn on the news with the hope that there will be something! Another day.. Prayers are with the family..

[desmom]

Originally posted by cteall
Does anyone happen to have an e-mail address of any of the LE involved with the case? [/*]

The only email address I can find for King County Sheriff is a general email address. kcsheriff@metrokc.gov Several media reports have included John Urquhart's name as a spokesperson for the dept. I found a phone number 206-296-4155 and this is their home page http://www.metrokc.gov/sheriff/index.aspx

[n/t]

Originally posted by saydeezmom
I looked on that website (glitter graphics)and it is possible that it could be her. The thing that stuck out was the references to GOD. OR it could be him using that name and exploring other talents (graphics) Establish this because no one would think it would be him and he would still be able to do the things he loves. (graphics) A user could put any info they would like. (birthday, marital status, lives, etc) It doesn't necessarily have to be true. Also something interesting...

On that site there is a person called baby doll:
It says Hey wanna be friends..
the info for that person is from Italy and the postings look gothic type. i think this whole mess is computer/internett related. after reading her post about she didn't know everyone he chatted with makes me think she thinks this as well. all my opinion! sorry so long!


cteall posted this yesterday: (Italy reference)

"Also another TOTAL longshot I came up with from the Veromi.net website. I did a veromi.net search on the person that is listed as a possible roommate/ associate of Nicholas. Now that person has several people associated with her name. One of those people is connected with Campus Crusade for Christ in Italy. Didn't someone mention something about Italy before. That could explain leaving MH church, it could also explain "vanished with no trace", no need for car, and on and on and on. Longshot for sure, but we really don't have much to go on here. Did anyone ever get an answer on if we know where his passport it??" [/*]


Christine posted Nicholas didn't have a passport as far as she knew.

I posted what she said on the first post.

[need2no]

ThruTheTrees
Member


quote:
Interesting to see the comments she's allowing to be posted too, like this one: "There is no reason to explain the Mars Hill departure - Mark Driscoll is a fruit loop, I only wonder about the people who choose to stay there. "

Seems like that is saying something right there, if she didn't censor it...

**************************
TTT-Was this comment on her blog? If so, it is no longer there.

[ThruTheTrees]

Originally posted by need2no
ThruTheTrees
Member


quote:
Interesting to see the comments she's allowing to be posted too, like this one: "There is no reason to explain the Mars Hill departure - Mark Driscoll is a fruit loop, I only wonder about the people who choose to stay there. "

Seems like that is saying something right there, if she didn't censor it...

**************************
TTT-Was this comment on her blog? If so, it is no longer there. [/*]

I'm still seeing it. Second comment from the bottom: http://thefranciscos.com/2008/03/09/why-should-i/#comments

Oh, and good morning everyone!

[ThruTheTrees]

Originally posted by cteall
I thought the same thing, "fruit loop" is a very interesting choice of words to use. What does that mean anyway?? I have my guesses, but I kind of closed that path in my mind already. [/*]

I think it's similar to what the Web-Sleuthers called those of us on THIS board the other day -- "fruitcakes"! ;)

[ThruTheTrees]

Originally posted by n/t
Good Morning all,

Christine has answered some of the questions we've been asking.

*Some one asked about him having a camera on him. No he wouldn’t since I’m the photographer in the family not Nicholas.

*Nicholas would take the viaduct (hwy 99), cross the bridge over the duamish (sp?) river onto hwy 509 and either stay on 509 or get off on hwy 518. logically he would have gotten off 509 and onto hwy 518 because there is an exit to south center (tukwilla area) where the costco is. it would have been a wast of his time and gas to just stay on 509 to go to costco. he never ever took the freeway (I-5) home because it was far from where he worked and always backed up. if he had made it to costco he should have been home no later than 7ish.

*He did not have a passport that I am aware of.


I'm not from the area so I can't really comment on the second point, however, just wondering what he would take if he went right home and not Costco and/or if he went to Safeway instead.

Also, considering authorities believe he never got to Costco what other route would he have taken. Did he friends in the area? Family? Any other store that he may have decided to go to instead of Costco or Safeway to get the sugar?

http://thefranciscos.com/

I continue to hope for his safe return. :rose: [/*]

I live in the area and the route she described would be the most logical one from where he works to where they live. Even if he did stop at Safeway, since that was close to his work.

There is another Costco that he could have gone to just south of downtown Seattle, which I think would have been a better choice, but maybe he didn't shop at that one. But I think that if they checked whether his Costco card was used, it would have checked for all stores, not just the one she thought he was going to.

[need2no]

Originally posted by ThruTheTrees


I'm still seeing it. Second comment from the bottom: http://thefranciscos.com/2008/03/09/why-should-i/#comments

Oh, and good morning everyone! [/*]

Good morning to you as well.

I was looking at the actual blog written by Christine, not the comments. Thank you for directing me to the correct place where this comment is located.

[ThruTheTrees]

Originally posted by YellowRose49
I read this with particular interest (thanks n/t for supplying this info): " I don’t know all of whom he chatted with online so knowing the last time you chatted with him could be very helpful. If you chatted with him and you know where he is please contact someone listed above, you can do it anonymously if you choose. I need to find him no matter the outcome. (For those of you who think i think he ran off just based on my asking for info you can think again because i still don’t think he ran off.)'

Christine begins by saying what a presence NF had online, with several message boards. Then she goes on to ask those who have spoken to him to come forth. Then she asks if they know where he is, to come forth, "anonymously if you choose".

Then she has the comment that she needs to find him no matter what the outcome, explaining that it is for those who think he ran off, although she doesn't think he did.

I think this: I think she HIGHLY suspects that this is exactly what he did. She knows something she is not sharing with anyone, IMO. The more she "speaks" the more apparent it becomes that she is on the defensive about something.

The church connection - the condo complex. All tied in somehow.

I asked someone from this site if they'd (police)checked his computer at home or at the office. Apparently, I guess, he must have used him laptop for home and work (unless someone knows something different?) and thus all that info is missing along with Nicholas and the computer. Christine mentions that he was on many boards, yet she claims to not know which ones. Did he tell her that he was on many boards?

Just random thoughts trying to come through to make sense of a senseless scenario. [/*]

Good post and not random at all -- makes a lot of sense to me!

I also see by her reaching out to people he might have chatted with that she is starting to admit that she didn't know every facet of his life. More than that, it seems there is some hope that he could still be alive. The "I need to find him no matter the outcome" is sounding a lot more mature and realistic, that she is open to any possibility, even though she still says she doesn't think he ran off.

As to how she knew he was on many boards, she could have learned that right here since people have found his posts on several. Or, maybe he told her.

[invreporter1105]

Hi. I checked the Links thread, but could not find any links other than ones pointing to information about NF's disappearance. Can someone post some links or PM me some links to sites NF may have been using prior to his disappearance?

I checked yahoo to see if there was a profile for him. A profile does exist under his name, but there was nothing specifying where the profile-owner lived or any other indications that could connect NF with the profile.

Thanks

[ThruTheTrees]

Originally posted by cteall
This is strictly my opinion, I don't think bella02 is either Christine or Nicholas, but who could it be? They style of artwork does not appear to belong to NF and the style of writing and the context of what is written does not appear to be CF. There are some very eerie coincidences, and there is clearly a strong possibility that it is just that, a coincidence.

1. Is in the same profession as Nicholas
2. Her on line name is Bella02
3. On her name and location, she (or he, who knows?) makes references to God, yet has no problem whatsoever disclosing her date of birth.
4. Lists birthday as Valentine's Day, now it doesn't matter if that is truely her birthday or not, but I find it a huge coincidence one way or the other.

Am I way off base on this one? Does anyone else have any other thoughts on this? I bet if we look hard enough we may find bella03 and bella04.....lol.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by saydeezmom
I looked on that website (glitter graphics)and it is possible that it could be her. The thing that stuck out was the references to GOD. OR it could be him using that name and exploring other talents (graphics) Establish this because no one would think it would be him and he would still be able to do the things he loves. (graphics) A user could put any info they would like. (birthday, marital status, lives, etc) It doesn't necessarily have to be true. [/*]

This is an interesting connection. When I looked at the art, it didn't seem like it connected to either of them, but you never know. Also, wasn't the original link to this somehow connected to a "known associates" list on the veromi.net site?

[Old Timer]

Originally posted by SHinS
What brand was NF's cell phone? [/*]

This website says:

Cell phone: Silver Razor

http://www.findnicholasfrancisco.com/

Should that be Razr - something like one of these?
http://www.1800mobiles.com/tmobile.html

[n/t]

Originally posted by ThruTheTrees


I live in the area and the route she described would be the most logical one from where he works to where they live. Even if he did stop at Safeway, since that was close to his work.

There is another Costco that he could have gone to just south of downtown Seattle, which I think would have been a better choice, but maybe he didn't shop at that one. But I think that if they checked whether his Costco card was used, it would have checked for all stores, not just the one she thought he was going to. [/*]

Thank you. Good point. So we can assume he hasn't been to any Costco.

[YellowRose49]

OldTimer, I am certain that must be what was meant, as those phones are quite popular, or at least, have been.

[need2no]

Originally posted by cteall
This is strictly my opinion, I don't think bella02 is either Christine or Nicholas, but who could it be? They style of artwork does not appear to belong to NF and the style of writing and the context of what is written does not appear to be CF. There are some very eerie coincidences, and there is clearly a strong possibility that it is just that, a coincidence.

1. Is in the same profession as Nicholas
2. Her on line name is Bella02
3. On her name and location, she (or he, who knows?) makes references to God, yet has no problem whatsoever disclosing her date of birth.
4. Lists birthday as Valentine's Day, now it doesn't matter if that is truely her birthday or not, but I find it a huge coincidence one way or the other.

Am I way off base on this one? Does anyone else have any other thoughts on this? I bet if we look hard enough we may find bella03 and bella04.....lol.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by saydeezmom
I looked on that website (glitter graphics)and it is possible that it could be her. The thing that stuck out was the references to GOD. OR it could be him using that name and exploring other talents (graphics) Establish this because no one would think it would be him and he would still be able to do the things he loves. (graphics) A user could put any info they would like. (birthday, marital status, lives, etc) It doesn't necessarily have to be true. [/*]

I need to go check this out for myself, but from what you've said it does sound interesting and possibly related.

How many coincidences can there be in this case? Like the whole thing about Villiamu Fale disappearing Feb. 14, and his wife just happens to work at the Costco where Nicholas was supposedly going to buy the organic sugar. Harlett has spoken with VF's wife who advised her it is a private matter. I'm sure Harlett would have shared more of their convo if she could, and why she has now ruled out a connection, and I respect that but with no more info than "it's a private matter" I have to still keep this in the back of my mind.

Then there is the coincidence about the cell phone...just so happens to have a dead battery on the very day NF disappears, and NF just so happened to mention this to co-workers.

And how about the coincidence about resigning from the church 2 days before he vanishes without a trace.

How the heck did LE determine the man who thought he saw NF's car at the storage unit was mistaken. Is it a mere coincidence that a car similiar to NF's (1992 and RED) was seen at this storage unit?

Is it a coincidence that 60% of the occupants in the condo where the car was found are Vietnamese and might have a vow of silence among them if they knew anything?

Is it a coincidence NF is listed on NCIC database but no signs of foul play have been discovered by LE?

Is it a coincidence NF didn't have as much money in his Paypal acct. as he usually did?

What about the coincidence of pending layoffs at Publicis?

And what about the coincidence that NF disappears within days or weeks after his birthday, the pregnancy announcement, his wedding anniversary, resigning from the church, and on the EVE of Valentine's day.

What a heck of a lot of coincidences.

Hmmmm........

[Old Timer]

Originally posted by YellowRose49
OldTimer, I am certain that must be what was meant, as those phones are quite popular, or at least, have been. [/*]

Ok, thanks!

[ThruTheTrees]

Originally posted by n/t


Thank you. Good point. So we can assume he hasn't been to any Costco. [/*]

At least he didn't buy anything at one. They only scan the card at check-out, not when entering.

The other Costco that would be on the way home is at 4401 4th Ave S. Kind of an industrial area south of downtown. I wonder if any searches have been done in that area, by those who suspect foul play. Something could have happened on his way there or when he got out of his car. Not outside the realm of possibility.

But I think he left -- maybe for someone else, maybe because of a nervous breakdown, or maybe to protect himself or his family from some danger. I guess if I were Christine I'd be holding out hope for one of those last 2 since they could possibly lead to reconciliation at some point. Well leaving for someone else could too, but it would be very hard after this much time. At any rate, being alive in any scenario certainly would be better than "murdered"!

[n/t]

I didn't know Fale's wife worked at the same Costco Nicholas was supposed to go. :eek:

That's one heck of a coincidence. The guy disappeared the same day or day after, right?

Thanks for putting that list together need2. When you look at them all, it really makes one wonder.

[Jpanda]

Originally posted by cteall


Yes, it did appear to be linked to a "known associate" from veromi.net, that is how I ended up a glitter-graphics in the first place. When I scrolled down under the "current official artists" and saw bella02 my eyes popped out of my head. Then to click on that name and see the other stuff left me wondering. That is exactly what makes me think (IMO) that it is not either of them, but possibly someone he could be with (JMO). Disappears the evening before this person's birthday???? [/*]

Hello everyone, just checking in.....and wow, I think you guys are doing a great job with all this sleuthing. I know Christine must be in a lot of pain right now, and I think you guys are going to end up helping her out a lot by providing some missing info.

If my husband ever goes missing, I would definitely want you guys looking into it, that's for sure.

Hoping he is alive and safe somewhere, and that if he is, he returns to his family.

JMO

[SHinS]

Originally posted by Old Timer


This website says:

Cell phone: Silver Razor

http://www.findnicholasfrancisco.com/

Should that be Razr - something like one of these?
http://www.1800mobiles.com/tmobile.html [/*]


Thank you

I think I found his ebay account... not sure if I'm allowed to post its link here, might not be his afterall.

Buyer purchased a Samsung phone battery wall charger.
Would it compatible w/a Razor cell phone? I guess I'll have to check that out.

Besides I'm not sure how helpful this detail really is...

[Old Timer]

Originally posted by cteall


Yes, it did appear to be linked to a "known associate" from veromi.net, that is how I ended up a glitter-graphics in the first place. When I scrolled down under the "current official artists" and saw bella02 my eyes popped out of my head. Then to click on that name and see the other stuff left me wondering. That is exactly what makes me think (IMO) that it is not either of them, but possibly someone he could be with (JMO). Disappears the evening before this person's birthday???? [/*]

For some reason, I was thinking it was a phony birth date (valentine's day), like Location: God's World. I scrolled through the pages at the bottom - the posts aren't dated - I didn't see anything in particular in any of the postings - just requests for graphics and thank you's mostly. The first thread of posts is the most current I believe.

Who knew there was a whole glitter world out there? I now know about glitter graphics and twitter. :)

What is this site?
On Glitter-Graphics you find a variety of graphics that you can use on your Myspace profile, Orkut page, Xanga page, weblog or any other kind of website. All graphics are free for personal use: no strings (or pricetags, for that matter) attached towards us. None of the images may be used for commercial purposes or re-distribution, unless you got permission of the image's owner.

Name: God Bless All Ranking: official artist
Birthday: 1978-02-14 Country: United States
Joined: 2007-10-03 Location: God's World
Posts: 1093 comments
Uploads: 772 graphics (nothing yet) Visits: 1500 visits

Posted on all bella02 pages (cannot tell the date it was posted):

Hello All, I Just want to apologized to those that requested graphics before and they were not made, the reason is because i lost most of my pictures and i cann't relocate them, so please 4give me for not making ur gaphics if u want to request more please do for the new graphics ..

http://glitter-graphics.com/users/bella02

[carterkatt]

Originally posted by n/t


Thank you. Good point. So we can assume he hasn't been to any Costco. [/*]

This is a stretch - I realize that... But, if NF had to go to Costco for the organic sugar, what if the Costco on the way home was out of organic sugar, (he could have called ahead of time to check???) and that means he may have gone to the Costco further from home?

I know.. grasping at straws... wondering too, as others have, which Costco the other missing man's wife works?

[KKKKKKatie]

Originally posted by n/t
I didn't know Fale's wife worked at the same Costco Nicholas was supposed to go. :eek:

That's one heck of a coincidence. The guy disappeared the same day or day after, right?

Thanks for putting that list together need2. When you look at them all, it really makes one wonder. [/*]

an aweful lot of coincidences huh n/t?

[SHinS]

Originally posted by cteall
This is strictly my opinion, I don't think bella02 is either Christine or Nicholas, but who could it be? They style of artwork does not appear to belong to NF and the style of writing and the context of what is written does not appear to be CF. There are some very eerie coincidences, and there is clearly a strong possibility that it is just that, a coincidence.

1. Is in the same profession as Nicholas
2. Her on line name is Bella02
3. On her name and location, she (or he, who knows?) makes references to God, yet has no problem whatsoever disclosing her date of birth.
4. Lists birthday as Valentine's Day, now it doesn't matter if that is truely her birthday or not, but I find it a huge coincidence one way or the other.

Am I way off base on this one? Does anyone else have any other thoughts on this? I bet if we look hard enough we may find bella03 and bella04.....lol.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by saydeezmom
I looked on that website (glitter graphics)and it is possible that it could be her. The thing that stuck out was the references to GOD. OR it could be him using that name and exploring other talents (graphics) Establish this because no one would think it would be him and he would still be able to do the things he loves. (graphics) A user could put any info they would like. (birthday, marital status, lives, etc) It doesn't necessarily have to be true. [/*]


Here's a little something I found...
What do you guys think?

- Right under "God bless All's buddies: 3rd glitter icon from top left: http://glitter-graphics.com/users/pimpingal

...that someone is using the same glitter icon on their myspace page and happen to be on CF friends list:

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=270285887

[Hubbard]

Originally posted by need2no


I need to go check this out for myself, but from what you've said it does sound interesting and possibly related.

How many coincidences can there be in this case? Like the whole thing about Villiamu Fale disappearing Feb. 14, and his wife just happens to work at the Costco where Nicholas was supposedly going to buy the organic sugar. Harlett has spoken with VF's wife who advised her it is a private matter. I'm sure Harlett would have shared more of their convo if she could, and why she has now ruled out a connection, and I respect that but with no more info than "it's a private matter" I have to still keep this in the back of my mind.

Then there is the coincidence about the cell phone...just so happens to have a dead battery on the very day NF disappears, and NF just so happened to mention this to co-workers.

And how about the coincidence about resigning from the church 2 days before he vanishes without a trace.

How the heck did LE determine the man who thought he saw NF's car at the storage unit was mistaken. Is it a mere coincidence that a car similiar to NF's (1992 and RED) was seen at this storage unit?

Is it a coincidence that 60% of the occupants in the condo where the car was found are Vietnamese and might have a vow of silence among them if they knew anything?

Is it a coincidence NF is listed on NCIC database but no signs of foul play have been discovered by LE?

Is it a coincidence NF didn't have as much money in his Paypal acct. as he usually did?

What about the coincidence of pending layoffs at Publicis?

And what about the coincidence that NF disappears within days or weeks after his birthday, the pregnancy announcement, his wedding anniversary, resigning from the church, and on the EVE of Valentine's day.

What a heck of a lot of coincidences.

Hmmmm........ [/*]


Other than a few of your comments, I think you could look at the list and say that this is "life". However, put into the context of a missing person, I can see how many and varied conclusions can be theorized.

Thanks for putting this list together.

[Mrs.Butterworth]

Originally posted by n/t
Also,

SNIPPED

(For those of you who think i think he ran off just based on my asking for info you can think again because i still don’t think he ran off.)[/*]

http://thefranciscos.com/ [/*]


The last statement really bugs me because why would you not want to believe that he ran off and is safe? If this is the man you love, why would you even want to choose to believe he's dead or in danger or injured? Is it because it will hurt the ego more if he ran off on his own or with someone else than if he is found in a ditch?

[PerneciaJane]

Originally posted by need2no


How the heck did LE determine the man who thought he saw NF's car at the storage unit was mistaken. Is it a mere coincidence that a car similiar to NF's (1992 and RED) was seen at this storage unit?

[/*]
Christine's explanation was, This was reported to the media incorrectly. A man who was at the storage unit saw a car go by, on the street, that matched NF's.

[mxma30]

Originally posted by Mrs.Butterworth



The last statement really bugs me because why would you not want to believe that he ran off and is safe? If this is the man you love, why would you even want to choose to believe he's dead or in danger or injured? Is it because it will hurt the ego more if he ran off on his own or with someone else than if he is found in a ditch? [/*]


That has been my theory from the first time I heard her speak. She would be happier with the title Widow than she would with people knowing her husband left her. Her dialect tells a lot about herself.

[soyesterday]

Originally posted by Mrs.Butterworth



The last statement really bugs me because why would you not want to believe that he ran off and is safe? If this is the man you love, why would you even want to choose to believe he's dead or in danger or injured? Is it because it will hurt the ego more if he ran off on his own or with someone else than if he is found in a ditch? [/*]

I can't even comment what i feel about that statement she made. I have to refrain myself all the time.
I just don't get it.....
i don't get her.....

[shelkobe]

Originally posted by Mrs.Butterworth
The last statement really bugs me because why would you not want to believe that he ran off and is safe? If this is the man you love, why would you even want to choose to believe he's dead or in danger or injured? Is it because it will hurt the ego more if he ran off on his own or with someone else than if he is found in a ditch?
It seems obvious to me that she believes it is not in his character or makeup to leave their family. There is nothing sinister or selfish in that.

[mxma30]

Originally posted by shelkobe

It seems obvious to me that she believes it is not in his character or makeup to leave their family. There is nothing sinister or selfish in that. [/*]

Its one thing to believe that about him, and a completely different thing to make statements that he was murdered.

[Hubbard]

Originally posted by mxma30


Its one thing to believe that about him, and a completely different thing to make statements that he was murdered. [/*]

I can understand her not wanting to challenge his character if she believes in him.

Logically, murder is just as likely as him leaving.

Again, the focus should be on determining how to find Nicholas.

[figritout]

Originally posted by shelkobe

It seems obvious to me that she believes it is not in his character or makeup to leave their family. There is nothing sinister or selfish in that. [/*]

I agree!

[mxma30]

Originally posted by Hubbard


I can understand her not wanting to challenge his character if she believes in him.

Logically, murder is just as likely as him leaving.

Again, the focus should be on determining how to find Nicholas. [/*]

Well he always carried his laptop correct? If I was LE I would check with whatever ISP he used or check his home/work routers to determine his laptops MAC address.. then check with local ISP's on any recent connections.

[desmom]

Could he have gone to Canada? He would not need a passport to enter Canada or to return to the US.
http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/vacation/ready_set_go/land_travel/reqs_canmexber.xml

http://cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/pub/rc4161-eng.html#P003

How does Canada handle US fathers not paying child support?

[Oregongal]

Good morning all,
Just getting on, puter had some hiccups this morning...arrrrr!
Lots of good points being discussed. ;)
Does anyone happen to know Nic's middle name or initial, if he has one?
I looked on the updated find Nic site, no mention of one.
TIA

[Jazmine203]

I know someone that goes to the Mars Hill church. From what I have heard about it it is a pretty odd church. Old fashioned thinking. Women are meant to stay home and have kids, women are to look up to the men and they are the boss so to speak. Not an equal relationship from what I can tell. From what I have heard about Christine she doesnt seem the type to be told what to do by anyone let alone her husband. Im surprised they stayed at that church for any length of time. I also heard they left the church because for whatever reason the pastor they liked left the church and went to another one and they followed him. Not sure they ever made a service since all this happened during the week.. Im curious to know just what did happen that the pastor(s) left. I think there may have been more then one, not sure on that.

[Hubbard]

Originally posted by mxma30


Well he always carried his laptop correct? If I was LE I would check with whatever ISP he used or check his home/work routers to determine his laptops MAC address.. then check with local ISP's on any recent connections. [/*]

Yes, I agree that finding the location of the laptop could provide a big step in finding Nicholas.

I have seen quite a bit of commentary about the problems in tracking down a laptop based on MAC address. I cannot talk the techie talk but it seems that most routers do not keep the MAC address beyond the session. Can you add any tech insight?

[mxma30]

Originally posted by Hubbard


Yes, I agree that finding the location of the laptop could provide a big step in finding Nicholas.

I have seen quite a bit of commentary about the problems in tracking down a laptop based on MAC address. I cannot talk the techie talk but it seems that most routers do not keep the MAC address beyond the session. Can you add any tech insight? [/*]

Well I worked for comcast cable here in atlanta for a little while as a technician. You are correct that a router will not store that information UNLESS, the user sets up the router to only allow certain MAC addresses to access that router.. basically you can log into the router to see if it is set up that way.

An ISP will only be able to access MAC addresses that currently have an IP address connection with them. So there is only a window of time that an ISP could find out if his laptop is logged onto their network. If they know his MAC address, they could search for it on their network and determine the exact location of the router he is connected to.

[decor]

Originally posted by desmom
Could he have gone to Canada? He would not need a passport to enter Canada or to return to the US.
http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/vacation/ready_set_go/land_travel/reqs_canmexber.xml

http://cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/pub/rc4161-eng.html#P003

How does Canada handle US fathers not paying child support? [/*]

I was just going to ask if you needed a passport to drive to Alaska.

[Oregongal]

Originally posted by cteall
I think he is Nicholas S. Francisco, it also appears that he may be a "junior".

[/*]

Thanks cteall!!!

[SHinS]

Does NF have a myspace page? or Facebook?

[Hubbard]

Originally posted by mxma30


Well I worked for comcast cable here in atlanta for a little while as a technician. You are correct that a router will not store that information UNLESS, the user sets up the router to only allow certain MAC addresses to access that router.. basically you can log into the router to see if it is set up that way.

An ISP will only be able to access MAC addresses that currently have an IP address connection with them. So there is only a window of time that an ISP could find out if his laptop is logged onto their network. If they know his MAC address, they could search for it on their network and determine the exact location of the router he is connected to. [/*]

Thanks for that insight. If I understand correctly, this would be a realtime search rather than a hindsight search.

[ThruTheTrees]

Originally posted by Oregongal
Good morning all,
Just getting on, puter had some hiccups this morning...arrrrr!
Lots of good points being discussed. ;)
Does anyone happen to know Nic's middle name or initial, if he has one?
I looked on the updated find Nic site, no mention of one.
TIA [/*]

His middle name is Stephen

[PerneciaJane]

Originally posted by mxma30


Well I worked for comcast cable here in atlanta for a little while as a technician. You are correct that a router will not store that information UNLESS, the user sets up the router to only allow certain MAC addresses to access that router.. basically you can log into the router to see if it is set up that way.

An ISP will only be able to access MAC addresses that currently have an IP address connection with them. So there is only a window of time that an ISP could find out if his laptop is logged onto their network. If they know his MAC address, they could search for it on their network and determine the exact location of the router he is connected to. [/*]

Can you mask the mac address if you are behind a home or office firewall or router?

[Oregongal]

Ok, another question please...what is his birthdate?
I know he just had a birthday, but can't for the life of me remember.
:eek:

[Oregongal]

Originally posted by ThruTheTrees


His middle name is Stephen [/*]

Thanks TTT!!!

[ThruTheTrees]

Originally posted by decor


I was just going to ask if you needed a passport to drive to Alaska. [/*]

You would need either a passport or a photo id & birth certificate to drive through Canada to get to Alaska that way. Of course it's possible to fly directly to Alaska from Seattle, or to take a ferry from Bellingham (about 90 miles north of Seattle) -- I posted that idea last week. The Alaska ferry departs once a week; I'm not sure which day.

[mxma30]

Originally posted by PerneciaJane


Can you mask the mac address if you are behind a home or office firewall or router? [/*]

No, the MAC address is sent to the router and to the ISP through packets of data.

[ThruTheTrees]

Originally posted by Oregongal
Ok, another question please...what is his birthdate?
I know he just had a birthday, but can't for the life of me remember.
:eek: [/*]

January 23, 1980

(edited from before; I made a typo!)

[Oregongal]

Originally posted by ThruTheTrees


January 28, 1980 [/*]

Thanks again!!!

[Silver_Dove]

Originally posted by ThruTheTrees


I live in the area and the route she described would be the most logical one from where he works to where they live. Even if he did stop at Safeway, since that was close to his work.

There is another Costco that he could have gone to just south of downtown Seattle, which I think would have been a better choice, but maybe he didn't shop at that one. But I think that if they checked whether his Costco card was used, it would have checked for all stores, not just the one she thought he was going to. [/*]

I agree with the route being the only one to use. No one in this area would take I5. Rarely is it not the best route.

As to the Costco on 4th to go to it he would have had to drive through downtown (ugg) or tried to turn off 99 (ugg at that time). Also sounds like the one near South Center is they one they use meaning he would have an easier time getting in and out because he was use to it.

[PerneciaJane]

Originally posted by mxma30


No, the MAC address is sent to the router and to the ISP through packets of data. [/*]

Thank you M.30

[need2no]

HOLY MOLY!

I was seaching trying to find some info about church resignations and came across this (which in part reads)-

LET’S DISCUSS THE NEW BY-LAWS OF MARS HILL CHURCH

BY-LAWS:

Members of Mars Hill and all other professing Christians who regularly attend or fellowship with this church who err in doctrine, or who engage in conduct that violates Scripture as determined by any two or more elders, shall be subject to church discipline. Each potential case of discipline will be weighed on its own merits and dealt with according to Scripture.

Members of Mars Hill Church>> are not guaranteed confidentially regarding issues of church discipline, and understanding that submitting themselves to the authority of the church, issues of a sensitive or personal nature may become known to others.<<This includes but is not limited to notification to the authorities if a crime has been committed, or if a real threat of someone being endangered exists, >>as well as other violations of Scripture that may not result in physical danger.<< ***As determined by who's interpretation of the Scripture?***

Each member of this church and every other professing Christian who regularly attends or fellowships with this church, agrees that there should be no appeal to any court because of a discipline process or dismissal. A member who is under discipline by the church, as defined in the previous paragraphs, forfeits and waives the right to resign from Mars Hill Church. Resignation is possible only by a member who is in good standing and who is not under any disciplinary action.

Those who are members of the church or who regularly participate in church activities may be dismissed from the church by agreement of at least two elders. The dismissal of a church member may be made known to all members.

***"not guaranteed confidentially regarding issues of church discipline" (see paragraph 2 above), and "may be made known to all members. "So... was NF dismissed, or did he actually resign, would something have been made public about the cause of this action (as stated in the by-laws), if Nicholas had not vanished a mere 2 days later??????? Did NF take off before something became public knowledge?***


The person expressing negative comments about the by-laws wrote this at the end:

NOTE: Though Christ is initially mentioned as the head of this church, it is readily apparent that the real headship of this body resides with only three men without oversight.

http://prayingheart.wordpress.com/2008/01/18/lets-discuss-the-new-by-laws-of-mars-hill-church/

See Article VIII under Members of Mars Hill Church

[ThruTheTrees]

Originally posted by Silver_Dove


I agree with the route being the only one to use. No one in this area would take I5. Rarely is it not the best route.

As to the Costco on 4th to go to it he would have had to drive through downtown (ugg) or tried to turn off 99 (ugg at that time). Also sounds like the one near South Center is they one they use meaning he would have an easier time getting in and out because he was use to it. [/*]

Yes, that's true, it probably would be easier to go to the one he's used to.

Still, I am having trouble imagining how he could leave work at 6:10, drive to Costco, find a place to park, go in Costco to get sugar, wait in line to pay for it (no "express lines" at Costco!), and then get home by "7ish" as Christine has said would have happened.

[Jazmine203]

Wow, that is crazy. Never heard of a church doing things that way.. Why would anyone go there.

Originally posted by need2no
HOLY MOLY!

I was seaching trying to find some info about church resignations and came across this (which in part reads)-

LET’S DISCUSS THE NEW BY-LAWS OF MARS HILL CHURCH

BY-LAWS:

Members of Mars Hill and all other professing Christians who regularly attend or fellowship with this church who err in doctrine, or who engage in conduct that violates Scripture as determined by any two or more elders, shall be subject to church discipline. Each potential case of discipline will be weighed on its own merits and dealt with according to Scripture.

Members of Mars Hill Church>> are not guaranteed confidentially regarding issues of church discipline, and understanding that submitting themselves to the authority of the church, issues of a sensitive or personal nature may become known to others.<<This includes but is not limited to notification to the authorities if a crime has been committed, or if a real threat of someone being endangered exists, >>as well as other violations of Scripture that may not result in physical danger.<< ***As determined by who's interpretation of the Scripture?***

Each member of this church and every other professing Christian who regularly attends or fellowships with this church, agrees that there should be no appeal to any court because of a discipline process or dismissal. A member who is under discipline by the church, as defined in the previous paragraphs, forfeits and waives the right to resign from Mars Hill Church. Resignation is possible only by a member who is in good standing and who is not under any disciplinary action.

Those who are members of the church or who regularly participate in church activities may be dismissed from the church by agreement of at least two elders. The dismissal of a church member may be made known to all members.

***"not guaranteed confidentially regarding issues of church discipline" (see paragraph 2 above), and "may be made known to all members. "So... was NF dismissed, or did he actually resign, would something have been made public about the cause of this action (as stated in the by-laws), if Nicholas had not vanished a mere 2 days later??????? Did NF take off before something became public knowledge?***


The person expressing negative comments about the by-laws wrote this at the end:

NOTE: Though Christ is initially mentioned as the head of this church, it is readily apparent that the real headship of this body resides with only three men without oversight.

http://prayingheart.wordpress.com/2008/01/18/lets-discuss-the-new-by-laws-of-mars-hill-church/

See Article VIII under Members of Mars Hill Church [/*]

[mxma30]

Originally posted by PerneciaJane


Thank you M.30 [/*]

Although, I google searched hiding the MAC address and there is a lot of hits for software that say they can do so.. I have never heard of that being possible so I am wary to believe it. I base that on the understanding that a router will not connect without needing the MAC address so that it can correctly direct packets to your computer.. otherwise if two people were on the same router with blocked MAC addresses, how would the router determine which computer to send which data?

I did basic tech and installation work, but know some through research and friends, so the in-depth stuff is a little out of my league :read:

[Hubbard]

Originally posted by need2no
HOLY MOLY!

I was seaching trying to find some info about church resignations and came across this (which in part reads)-

LET’S DISCUSS THE NEW BY-LAWS OF MARS HILL CHURCH

BY-LAWS:

Members of Mars Hill and all other professing Christians who regularly attend or fellowship with this church who err in doctrine, or who engage in conduct that violates Scripture as determined by any two or more elders, shall be subject to church discipline. Each potential case of discipline will be weighed on its own merits and dealt with according to Scripture.

Members of Mars Hill Church>> are not guaranteed confidentially regarding issues of church discipline, and understanding that submitting themselves to the authority of the church, issues of a sensitive or personal nature may become known to others.<<This includes but is not limited to notification to the authorities if a crime has been committed, or if a real threat of someone being endangered exists, >>as well as other violations of Scripture that may not result in physical danger.<< ***As determined by who's interpretation of the Scripture?***

Each member of this church and every other professing Christian who regularly attends or fellowships with this church, agrees that there should be no appeal to any court because of a discipline process or dismissal. A member who is under discipline by the church, as defined in the previous paragraphs, forfeits and waives the right to resign from Mars Hill Church. Resignation is possible only by a member who is in good standing and who is not under any disciplinary action.

Those who are members of the church or who regularly participate in church activities may be dismissed from the church by agreement of at least two elders. The dismissal of a church member may be made known to all members.

***"not guaranteed confidentially regarding issues of church discipline" (see paragraph 2 above), and "may be made known to all members. "So... was NF dismissed, or did he actually resign, would something have been made public about the cause of this action (as stated in the by-laws), if Nicholas had not vanished a mere 2 days later??????? Did NF take off before something became public knowledge?***


The person expressing negative comments about the by-laws wrote this at the end:

NOTE: Though Christ is initially mentioned as the head of this church, it is readily apparent that the real headship of this body resides with only three men without oversight.

http://prayingheart.wordpress.com/2008/01/18/lets-discuss-the-new-by-laws-of-mars-hill-church/

See Article VIII under Members of Mars Hill Church [/*]

I guess I just don't see the sensationalism in this.

There has been no evidence of anything other than Nicholas and Christine resigned from the church.

[mxma30]

Originally posted by Hubbard


I guess I just don't see the sensationalism in this.

There has been no evidence of anything other than Nicholas and Christine resigned from the church. [/*]

Nor do I.

I believe that if it was of huge significance why they resigned from the church, CF would have been asking why they are resigning from the church prior to him leaving. If it did not come as a surprise to her days before he left, then I dont see the connection.

[need2no]

Originally posted by Hubbard


I guess I just don't see the sensationalism in this.

There has been no evidence of anything other than Nicholas and Christine resigned from the church. [/*]


Really...where did we glean the information that The Franciscos RESIGNED from the church?

Of course like most everything we post it is mere speculation on our part based on a few known facts, but how can a mystery be resolved if every possible avenue and theory isn't explored with an open mind.


Sometimes it's necessary to go a long distance out of the way in order to come back a short distance correctly. ~Edward Albee

[field of snow]

Need2No....get your vacuum working on your mailbox here. When I get back from my 10th errand of the day, I have a PM for you!



:D :tongue:

[PerneciaJane]

Originally posted by mxma30


Although, I google searched hiding the MAC address and there is a lot of hits for software that say they can do so.. I have never heard of that being possible so I am wary to believe it. I base that on the understanding that a router will not connect without needing the MAC address so that it can correctly direct packets to your computer.. otherwise if two people were on the same router with blocked MAC addresses, how would the router determine which computer to send which data?

I did basic tech and installation work, but know some through research and friends, so the in-depth stuff is a little out of my league :read: [/*]

I thought it would be determined by which slot the computer was connected too in the router/firewall as the router has its own identification system. I could be wrong but that was just my thinking.

[mxma30]

Originally posted by PerneciaJane


I thought it would be determined by which slot the computer was connected too in the router/firewall as the router has its own identification system. I could be wrong but that was just my thinking. [/*]

Has nothing to do with the slot. Think about if both were wireless, then what?

Same as a home phone system, there is no way to tell which phone jack a land line is plugged into if it is part of the same network and phone number.. the slots on a router are just souldered into the main board and have little significance in sending and recieving data.

[Oregongal]

Originally posted by mxma30


Nor do I.

I believe that if it was of huge significance why they resigned from the church, CF would have been asking why they are resigning from the church prior to him leaving. If it did not come as a surprise to her days before he left, then I dont see the connection. [/*]

It could be that they left because of these 'by-laws', they didn't agree with them.
Sometimes you may have to attend a church for awhile before you see and realize what it is really all about.
Or sometimes you may attend a church for awhile and then leadership makes changes that you don't agree with.
I'm sorry, but I have never thought that them leaving the church had anything to do with his disappearance.
Of course, that is JMO

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by need2no



Really...where did we glean the information that The Franciscos RESIGNED from the church?

Of course like most everything we post it is mere speculation on our part based on a few known facts, but how can a mystery be resolved if every possible avenue and theory isn't explored with an open mind.


Sometimes it's necessary to go a long distance out of the way in order to come back a short distance correctly. ~Edward Albee [/*]

Exactly - unfortunately so many avenues have already been shut down, it dilutes the objective here IMO.

[PerneciaJane]

Originally posted by mxma30


Has nothing to do with the slot. Think about if both were wireless, then what? [/*]

I honestly do not know but was trying to figure out how does the router/firewall or Norton software hide a computer from the internet? I understand about blocked ports but have been in a discussion about the Mac address. My interest is piqued wii go do sme searches.

[need2no]

Originally posted by mxma30


Nor do I.

I believe that if it was of huge significance why they resigned from the church, CF would have been asking why they are resigning from the church prior to him leaving. If it did not come as a surprise to her days before he left, then I dont see the connection. [/*]


How do we know Christine didn't ask why 'they' resigned?
How do we know Christine wasn't made aware of the problem and the need to resign, and was devastated over the news?
How do we even know they resigned versus being dismissed?
How do we know what was going on between CF and NF regarding the church issue just prior to NF disappearing?

If they were dismissed due to some wrong doing, or a real, or perceived Scripture violation by the church, do you really expect Christine to volunteer this information publicly?

Christine has volunteered several things...yet she has never offered up a benign reason for the resignation other than to say it has nothing to do with NF's disappearance. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, but I'm not ready to dismiss it and I hope LE isn't either.

[need2no]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


Exactly - unfortunately so many avenues have already been shut down, it dilutes the objective here IMO. [/*]

Thank you! Good to see some of us have with an open mind to seek the truth.

[Mrs.Butterworth]

Originally posted by need2no



How do we know Christine didn't ask why 'they' resigned?
How do we know Christine wasn't made aware of the problem and the need to resign, and was devastated over the news?
How do we even know they resigned versus being dismissed?
How do we know what was going on between CF and NF regarding the church issue just prior to NF disappearing?

If they were dismissed due to some wrong doing, or a real, or perceived Scripture violation by the church, do you really expect Christine to volunteer this information publicly?

Christine has volunteered several things...yet she has never offered up a benign reason for the resignation other than to say it has nothing to do with NF's disappearance. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, but I'm not ready to dismiss it and I hope LE isn't either. [/*]


ITA! You have to look at all of the avenues and what happened prior to his going missing to be able to find out where he is and why.

[need2no]

Originally posted by Oregongal


It could be that they left because of these 'by-laws', they didn't agree with them.
Sometimes you may have to attend a church for awhile before you see and realize what it is really all about.
Or sometimes you may attend a church for awhile and then leadership makes changes that you don't agree with.
I'm sorry, but I have never thought that them leaving the church had anything to do with his disappearance.
Of course, that is JMO [/*]

Could be, but if that was the reason why didn't CF just say so.
For instance she could have said: We resigned because we were not in agreement with the newly revised by-laws of the church, and we've decided to seek out a church that better suits our beliefs. Or there have been some changes in the church which have led us to look for another church to call our home.

I'm not sure when the newly updated by-laws came into affect, I should have looked for a date on that site. But, members do have to sign off on all this (and more I didn't post here), before they are accepted as a member.

If I read all that c*ap, I would bolt for the nearest door!

[Hubbard]

Originally posted by need2no



Really...where did we glean the information that The Franciscos RESIGNED from the church?

Of course like most everything we post it is mere speculation on our part based on a few known facts, but how can a mystery be resolved if every possible avenue and theory isn't explored with an open mind.


Sometimes it's necessary to go a long distance out of the way in order to come back a short distance correctly. ~Edward Albee [/*]

Are you saying that you do not know their relationship with Mars Hill, yet you post comments on the church bylaws to indicate they were dismissed?

[Hubbard]

Originally posted by need2no



How do we know Christine didn't ask why 'they' resigned?
How do we know Christine wasn't made aware of the problem and the need to resign, and was devastated over the news?
How do we even know they resigned versus being dismissed?
How do we know what was going on between CF and NF regarding the church issue just prior to NF disappearing?

If they were dismissed due to some wrong doing, or a real, or perceived Scripture violation by the church, do you really expect Christine to volunteer this information publicly?

Christine has volunteered several things...yet she has never offered up a benign reason for the resignation other than to say it has nothing to do with NF's disappearance. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, but I'm not ready to dismiss it and I hope LE isn't either. [/*]


The what ifs are fine if based in reason. To do otherwise, just makes you look silly IMO.

[need2no]

Originally posted by field of snow
Need2No....get your vacuum working on your mailbox here. When I get back from my 10th errand of the day, I have a PM for you!



:D :tongue: [/*]


It's all nice and tidy now! :)

[Hubbard]

Originally posted by need2no


Could be, but if that was the reason why didn't CF just say so.
For instance she could have said: We resigned because we were not in agreement with the newly revised by-laws of the church, and we've decided to seek out a church that better suits our beliefs. Or there have been some changes in the church which have led us to look for another church to call our home.

I'm not sure when the newly updated by-laws came into affect, I should have looked for a date on that site. But, members do have to sign off on all this (and more I didn't post here), before they are accepted as a member.

If I read all that c*ap, I would bolt for the nearest door! [/*]

Christine does not need to comment why they left the church.

On what basis do you think you are privy to that information?

[need2no]

Originally posted by Hubbard



The what ifs are fine if based in reason. To do otherwise, just makes you look silly IMO. [/*]


Just remember...

A wise man can see more from the bottom of a well than a fool can from a mountain top. ~Author Unknown

But thank you for your observations and have a lovely day in your world.

[PerneciaJane]

Originally posted by mxma30


Has nothing to do with the slot. Think about if both were wireless, then what?

Same as a home phone system, there is no way to tell which phone jack a land line is plugged into if it is part of the same network and phone number.. the slots on a router are just souldered into the main board and have little significance in sending and recieving data. [/*]

I usually go here
https://www.grc.com/x/ne.dll?bh0bkyd2
But can't find anything on Mac adress it all relates to IP address.
I run my home computers her ocassionally, not a techie but to check security. This was what I got on my computer.

Your system has achieved a perfect "TruStealth" rating. Not a single packet — solicited or otherwise — was received from your system as a result of our security probing tests. Your system ignored and refused to reply to repeated Pings (ICMP Echo Requests).

But this has nothing to do with the Mac address,

[need2no]

Originally posted by Beth
I don't see any post stating Need2know is indicating they were dismissed at all. What I do see is a little baiting though. [/*]

Isn't comprehension a nice skill to possess. :)

And I see what you see, thank goodness for the scroll feature on my mouse. :cool:

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by need2no


Isn't comprehension a nice skill to possess. :)

And I see what you see, thank goodness for the scroll feature on my mouse. :cool: [/*]

same time every day :tongue:

[need2no]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


same time every day :tongue: [/*]

I noticed that as well. Must be lunch hour somewhere.:)

[huskiki]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


same time every day :tongue: [/*]
:lol:

[Hubbard]

Originally posted by need2no



Just remember...

A wise man can see more from the bottom of a well than a fool can from a mountain top. ~Author Unknown

But thank you for your observations and have a lovely day in your world. [/*]

I guess when you can't think for yourself, use someone else.

I would rather you discuss your post.

[Oregongal]

Originally posted by Beth
If I read all that c*ap, I would bolt for the nearest door! [/*]

You and me both, N2 [/*][/QUOTE]

As would I.

[Hubbard]

According to this post on the West Seattle Blog by a poster representing themselves as Christine, they resigned.

please know all the facts. we resigned on monday feb. 11 and he went missing wed. feb 13.

our resignation should not be of any importance at this time. finding my husband and my kids’ father is the only importance here.

Comment by Christine Francisco — February 18, 08 9:45 am #

[Jazmine203]

Hubbard do you know Christine or attend the church by chance?

[need2no]

Originally posted by Hubbard


I guess when you can't think for yourself, use someone else.

I would rather you discuss your post. [/*]


Look back at your posts responding to mine. You were not open to discussing anything, rather you merely dismissed what I had posted, didn't comprehend what I stated, and implied my thought process was silly. It is evident from reading your posts you have no intention to discuss this case seriously, instead you appear to be here to argue, annoy, and/or start trouble on the board. I've been around for many years on this board and I recognize your kind. Futhermore I am not fool enough to waste my time, risk having the board shut down, or get myself banned with the likes of posters like you.

Au revoir

:seeya:

[Hubbard]

Originally posted by need2no



Look back at your posts responding to mine. You were not open to discussing anything, rather you merely dismissed what I had posted, didn't comprehend what I stated, and implied my thought process was silly. It is evident from reading your posts you have no intention to discuss this case seriously, instead you appear to be here to argue, annoy, and/or start trouble on the board. I've been around for many years on this board and I recognize your kind. Futhermore I am not fool enough to waste my time, risk having the board shut down, or get myself banned with the likes of posters like you.

Au revoir

:seeya: [/*]

Yes, look back at my posts. You will find much discussion on valid points and criticism of silliness.

I find it interesting how some people stand down from discussion so quickly.

[decor]

the problem with every person that has asked Christine to post some answers to their questions or demanded that she post answers to their questions really doesn't matter , because the people that keep asking/telling her to do so, wouldn't believe her anyway.


when she does post an answer these same people state well it must not be the right answer.
she said the church had nothing to do with it but it is pursued as if she said nothing. This is fine but why ask questions and expect the answers that fit into your idea of what happened and why ask if you aren't going to believe her anyway.

[mxma30]

Originally posted by Hubbard


Yes, look back at my posts. You will find much discussion on valid points and criticism of silliness.

I find it interesting how some people stand down from discussion so quickly. [/*]

As far as I can find, it looks like the new church laws went into effect at the later side of 2007.

Now can we discuss facts of the case and base opinions on them rather than silly guesses about private info we do not have a right to know.

[desmom]

If you click on "User CP" at the top of this page, it will take you to a new page with a tab called "Edit Ignore List". This tab will take you to a page with several blank boxes where you can enter another member's name. You must enter the member's name exactly and click on the Update List button. You will be able to see they have posted, but not be able to read their post without clicking on the "to view this post, click here". It is a real handy tool when you find yourself being baited by another poster.

IMO, they resigned from the church. I read several blogs and comment sections to blogs about the church urging their members to pray for NF's family, to assist in searches, to help with practical needs, provided information to the Fund that was set up at an area bank..........

I don't think the church would do all of the above if they had been dismissed from the church.

imo, jmo, moo

[Hubbard]

Originally posted by Beth
When it's all said and done, it'll be interesting to see who is standing back and feeling silly. You can't dismiss everything just because you don't agree with it. I see open discussion (or at least people trying) and sometimes things are discussed that I'm sure C and her supporters would rather not have discussed. IMO of course. [/*]

Beth, I agree that you can't dismiss things because you don't agree with them. Honest conversation about well reasoned and unbiased comments are the basis of understanding.

The forum sometimes gets cluttered by those that like to post unwarranted accusations, innuedos, and character assissinations then only expect adulations for doing so. They are completely stumped that someone would challenge them in debate to support their post. They usually then resort to an attempt to be cute or dismiss the challenger. We have all seen this type of behavior in middle school.

Thanks for your post.

[mxma30]

my last post was not intended to be quoting you hubbard, hit the wrong button.

[Hubbard]

Originally posted by mxma30


As far as I can find, it looks like the new church laws went into effect at the later side of 2007.

Now can we discuss facts of the case and base opinions on them rather than silly guesses about private info we do not have a right to know. [/*]

I don't see a connect with the resignation and the the disappearance other than it was a change in their lives. I can see a theory that pieces together other recent changes ot events to suggest that Nicholas was under stress.

What do you think?

[moonlessnite]

There's a costco on 4th Ave south in Seattle. it's on the way if you're heading from downtown to Georgetown/Boeing field or further south via I-5 and/or 99/509. I always thought they were talikng about that one.

Originally posted by n/t
Other Costco he could've gone to? Maybe to beat traffic, he decided going a different route would save him time and by that time traffic would've cleared up in the direction he was headed - home?

I know sometimes I take a different route (against traffic) eventhough I know it's further but would rather do it that way than sit in traffic.

Thoughts? [/*]

[Hubbard]

Originally posted by mxma30
my last post was not intended to be quoting you hubbard, hit the wrong button. [/*]

No problem.

[soyesterday]

*sigh*
here we go again....
guys.....
to everyone i sent pm's to last night.....
remember what we talked about k???? :)
and i think we should go through w/ it....
i liked your suggestions..
pm me if you're up for it k????

[Hubbard]

Originally posted by moonlessnite
There's a costco on 4th Ave south in Seattle. it's on the way if you're heading from downtown to Georgetown/Boeing field or further south via I-5 and/or 99/509. I always thought they were talikng about that one.

[/*]

Is the 4th Ave Costco where the other man was last seen?

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by desmom
If you click on "User CP" at the top of this page, it will take you to a new page with a tab called "Edit Ignore List". This tab will take you to a page with several blank boxes where you can enter another member's name. You must enter the member's name exactly and click on the Update List button. You will be able to see they have posted, but not be able to read their post without clicking on the "to view this post, click here". It is a real handy tool when you find yourself being baited by another poster.

IMO, they resigned from the church. I read several blogs and comment sections to blogs about the church urging their members to pray for NF's family, to assist in searches, to help with practical needs, provided information to the Fund that was set up at an area bank..........

I don't think the church would do all of the above if they had been dismissed from the church.

imo, jmo, moo [/*]

That is correct - Mars Hill did do all of that. That is why it seemed odd when a request was put in to delete any mention of them on another forum where people were getting things together for the family.

Edited for clarity

[desmom]

Re: Costco

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:1CbLEA_MTEUJ:www.amw.com/fugitives/case.cfm%3Fid%3D53372+Nicholas+Francisco+%2*+Costc o&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us is reporting

Cops later discovered that Nicholas did not use his Costco card that night.

IMO, Costco would have been able to access any purchases made at any Costco by NF by entering his membership number into their system.


jmo

[mxma30]

Originally posted by Hubbard


I don't see a connect with the resignation and the the disappearance other than it was a change in their lives. I can see a theory that pieces together other recent changes ot events to suggest that Nicholas was under stress.

What do you think? [/*]

I agree completely. I also believe he was under a lot of stress. Third child on the way, talks of lay offs around the office, ect.

The reason I do not see the church resignation as a connection to his disapearance (which is moo of course).. is as follows:

1. If he left on his own - Why would this require resignation from a church? If he felt the urge to resign from church, why wouldnt he feel the need to resign from his job? Or divorce his wife?

2. If he was a victim of foul play - Easier on this scenario.. he did not know foul play would find him just days later.

IMO, i believe their resignation was a mutual decision between he and his wife, which is why she also is saying it is not of importance in finding him.

[soyesterday]

need2no....
i sent u another pm....

[Silver_Dove]

Originally posted by desmom
If you click on "User CP" at the top of this page, it will take you to a new page with a tab called "Edit Ignore List". This tab will take you to a page with several blank boxes where you can enter another member's name. You must enter the member's name exactly and click on the Update List button. You will be able to see they have posted, but not be able to read their post without clicking on the "to view this post, click here". It is a real handy tool when you find yourself being baited by another poster.

IMO, they resigned from the church. I read several blogs and comment sections to blogs about the church urging their members to pray for NF's family, to assist in searches, to help with practical needs, provided information to the Fund that was set up at an area bank..........

I don't think the church would do all of the above if they had been dismissed from the church.

imo, jmo, moo [/*]

Thank you for this now I can ignore the ones who keep trying to drag things off to poor CF is so mistreated :) I'm sure this will make Coldwater happier.

I still thing NF left on his own I also can't help but wonder if all of the PR has help to keep him from wanting to call anyone.

[ThruTheTrees]

Originally posted by moonlessnite
There's a costco on 4th Ave south in Seattle. it's on the way if you're heading from downtown to Georgetown/Boeing field or further south via I-5 and/or 99/509. I always thought they were talikng about that one.

[/*]

Yes, we talked about that earlier -- but Christine has specifically said he was going to the Tukwila one. (FWIW)

[desmom]

Originally posted by soyesterday
*sigh*
here we go again....
guys.....
to everyone i sent pm's to last night.....
remember what we talked about k???? :)
and i think we should go through w/ it....
i liked your suggestions..
pm me if you're up for it k???? [/*]

Could you swiffer your mail please or pm me? TIA

[Mrs.Butterworth]

If he resigned from his job his wife would not have been receiving additional paychecks. So if he walked away, that would be a reason why he would not have resigned from his job.

[Hubbard]

Originally posted by mxma30


I agree completely. I also believe he was under a lot of stress. Third child on the way, talks of lay offs around the office, ect.

The reason I do not see the church resignation as a connection to his disapearance (which is moo of course).. is as follows:

1. If he left on his own - Why would this require resignation from a church? If he felt the urge to resign from church, why wouldnt he feel the need to resign from his job? Or divorce his wife?

2. If he was a victim of foul play - Easier on this scenario.. he did not know foul play would find him just days later.

IMO, i believe their resignation was a mutual decision between he and his wife, which is why she also is saying it is not of importance in finding him. [/*]

I have discussed the term "resignation" with a member of Mars Hill and understand it to be a notification to the church that you wish to be taken off the "roll", if you will.

[mxma30]

Originally posted by Mrs.Butterworth
If he resigned from his job his wife would not have been receiving additional paychecks. So if he walked away, that would be a reason why he would not have resigned from his job. [/*]

Or, he did not resign from his job because he wanted to disappear without people suspecting he left on his own. If he resigned from the church because he knew he was planning to leave, wouldnt this cause more speculation that he was planning to leave? I believe it already has..

[soyesterday]

Originally posted by desmom


Could you swiffer your mail please or pm me? TIA [/*]

yes i'll pm you
just a sec :)
rainy?? figritout?? need2no??
you guys still around?

[field of snow]

Originally posted by Silver_Dove


(snipped)

I still think NF left on his own I also can't help but wonder if all of the PR has help to keep him from wanting to call anyone. [/*]

It certainly would make it more difficult to just pop up now and say "Oh, i'm sorry. My bad. I had a temporary-few-years-late-quarterlifecrisis-slash-seven year itch. Let's get counseling and go back to normal."

If that is what happened.

[figritout]

Originally posted by need2no


I noticed that as well. Must be lunch hour somewhere.:) [/*]

This is so funny, I was thinking the exact same thing! LOL

[Hubbard]

Originally posted by mxma30


Or, he did not resign from his job because he wanted to disappear without people suspecting he left on his own. If he resigned from the church because he knew he was planning to leave, wouldnt this cause more speculation that he was planning to leave? I believe it already has.. [/*]

You make a good point about the resignation causing speculation.

I just think that he would be found by now if foul play was involved. My first thought on foul play is theft. If that is true, then the theft would probably be at his car or in his car.

[mxma30]

Originally posted by Hubbard


I have discussed the term "resignation" with a member of Mars Hill and understand it to be a notification to the church that you wish to be taken off the "roll", if you will. [/*]

Don't know what you think, but personally when I first read CF's statement about the church resignation having nothing to do with the disapearance, I figured it may have been CF's decision to resign. This could be why it has no baring on him being gone.

[Mrs.Butterworth]

Originally posted by mxma30


Or, he did not resign from his job because he wanted to disappear without people suspecting he left on his own. If he resigned from the church because he knew he was planning to leave, wouldnt this cause more speculation that he was planning to leave? I believe it already has.. [/*]

Very likely.

He already made a point to tell co-workers that his cellphone was dead. I realize it was a company phone as well, but it seems odd that if it was dead no one at the office could offer up a charger for him to use. I still think it was turned off.

[ThruTheTrees]

I see they've made a few revisions on the findnicholasfrancisco.com website, including the change of his race from "white" to "half-Filipino" (well they misspelled it as Philipino but I know that's what they mean!)

So at least that is finally confirmed. Not sure if it was on this board or WS that someone questioned the "white" description.

[Hubbard]

Originally posted by field of snow


It certainly would make it more difficult to just pop up now and say "Oh, i'm sorry. My bad. I had a temporary-few-years-late-quarterlifecrisis-slash-seven year itch. Let's get counseling and go back to normal."

If that is what happened. [/*]

I agree and it does make me wonder how this case got such national attention when there are thousands of missing people.

What are your thoughts on that?

[ThruTheTrees]

Originally posted by soyesterday


yes i'll pm you
just a sec :)
rainy?? figritout?? need2no??
you guys still around? [/*]

Oh, me too? If it's not too much trouble. :)

[desmom]

Originally posted by mxma30


Don't know what you thing, but personally when I first read CF's statement about the church resignation having nothing to do with the disapearance, I figured it may have been CF's decision to resign. This could be why it has no baring on him being gone. [/*]

From some of the things I have read, I would be outta there. It is quite possible CF may have felt the same way.


jmo

[ThruTheTrees]

Originally posted by Mrs.Butterworth


Very likely.

He already made a point to tell co-workers that his cellphone was dead. I realize it was a company phone as well, but it seems odd that if it was dead no one at the office could offer up a charger for him to use. I still think it was turned off. [/*]

Actually it was his personal cell phone according to Christine (but he got a discount through work). The cell phone pre-warning has always seemed to me to be more than coincidental. Unless Christine comes out and says "Nicholas often didn't have his cell phone charged up -- this certainly wasn't the first time" -- but I remember she has been quoted as saying that he would always call her even if he was 15 minutes late in traffic. So it seems like he was setting the stage for something by that.

[Oregongal]

Originally posted by soyesterday
*sigh*
here we go again....
guys.....
to everyone i sent pm's to last night.....
remember what we talked about k???? :)
and i think we should go through w/ it....
i liked your suggestions..
pm me if you're up for it k???? [/*]

Your box is full soy!
:eek:

[Hubbard]

Originally posted by Beth
Okay, so let me ask this. Hypothetically, if a married member of MH were seen outside the church, in an obvious affair, would/could the elders request or even mandate a resignation? Would there be counselling prior to a forced resignation? What if the affair were comprised of 2 people of the same sex. Would that matter and/or make it worse?

These are just ambiguous questions and I am not implying anything about CF or NF. Just trying to get a feel for this church and their bylaws. [/*]

Beth from what I understand, and we may need to refer to the church documentation, that an affair would not be accepted by the church. This is speculation on my part based on other church procedure, but I would think that counseling would be suggested by the church. My understanding from a member of Mars Hill is that forced resignation is a last resort for someone not willing to change from the sin.

While possible they were asked to resign, I don't see any evidence of that in anything I have read.

[need2no]

Originally posted by desmom
If you click on "User CP" at the top of this page, it will take you to a new page with a tab called "Edit Ignore List". This tab will take you to a page with several blank boxes where you can enter another member's name. You must enter the member's name exactly and click on the Update List button. You will be able to see they have posted, but not be able to read their post without clicking on the "to view this post, click here". It is a real handy tool when you find yourself being baited by another poster.

IMO, they resigned from the church. I read several blogs and comment sections to blogs about the church urging their members to pray for NF's family, to assist in searches, to help with practical needs, provided information to the Fund that was set up at an area bank..........

I don't think the church would do all of the above if they had been dismissed from the church.

imo, jmo, moo [/*]

I'm glad you posted the IGNORE info for others who may not be aware of this feature and might choose to use it. Personally I just scroll past certain posters when I've figured out their MO on the board...works for me. Sadly it takes a long time and a bunch of snide remarks and attempts at luring others to respond before the troll goes away, or starts posting seriously...or gets banned from the board.

I've read several blogs from church members as well and you could be right...nothing to all this church discussion, they merely resigned for some benign reason. Of course I have no idea what happened but just found the rather strict by-laws interesting and thought others may as well.

Also I often see gray where others see black or white...just can't help myself. :)

On the other hand (and you knew I would go here-lol), if I were a member and someone was IMO unjustly dismissed without real basis for the dismissal, or even if they resigned due to some Scriptual misgiving for which they were disciplined and which I disagreed with, I would whole heartedly support the family in anyway I could. In fact I would support them even if I agree with the church because that's what true Christians do....reach out to help their fellow man in times of need. Same goes for the church, it's the Christian thing to do regardless of the reason NF left their church or whether he was dismissed or resigned. It's also the POLITICALLY CORRECT thing to do. How would it look if they didn't support the family and assist in anyway possible?

A long time ago I attended a church where the hubby was a known alcoholic and ran around on his wife...but he was in church most every Sunday with wife and 5 children. He was the topic of much discussion in our church. When he was in the hospital dying from some alcohol related disease, the church did meals for the family, sent him flowers, collected donations for medical expenses, visited and prayed for him in the hospital, prayed for him during the sermons on Sunday etc. I was but a mere teen then, but it just struck me as the Christian thing to do. Bad comparison I know, but just saying true Christians should be forgiving and should do all they have done regardless of what happened. Besides, aren't they mainly doing this for Christine, her children, and the baby on the way. Maybe, just maybe something was amiss which had nothing to do with CF, just NF.

[mxma30]

Originally posted by Mrs.Butterworth


Very likely.

He already made a point to tell co-workers that his cellphone was dead. I realize it was a company phone as well, but it seems odd that if it was dead no one at the office could offer up a charger for him to use. I still think it was turned off. [/*]

The fact that CF is saying it was a silver RAZR is interesting to me. I had a razr in the past, had the best battery life of any phone I have ever had.. and with how popular that phone is, its surprising nobody had a charger there. the plug on the razr is a miniature USB port that is the same size that almost all digital cameras and mp3 players use, in fact they can be charged with one of these cords if the other end is plugged into a computer's usb port.

[field of snow]

Originally posted by mxma30


Or, he did not resign from his job because he wanted to disappear without people suspecting he left on his own. If he resigned from the church because he knew he was planning to leave, wouldnt this cause more speculation that he was planning to leave? I believe it already has.. [/*]

He could have resigned from the church thinking that was enough to put away whatever internal issues he was having and slowly realized over the next day that "screw this! It's not enough..I gotta get away."

:shrug:

I am just saying this from personal experience, but i've started out the day normal and had the "Screw this!" thought come from my subconscious as the culmination of little and big things finally getting at me. Unfortunately, i've done this with a job where I couldn't absolutely bear to deal with telling anyone. And yes, I know people who have done this with their marriage, too.

IMO, this is especially true if you're the type who has been known to be all happy and smiles. You try to keep it up for the benefit of others and suddenly it's too much. It's easier for people who can be outwardly grumpy every now and then. They don't have the need to put on a fake smile to keep things status quo.

[soyesterday]

Originally posted by ThruTheTrees


Oh, me too? If it's not too much trouble. :) [/*]

yep i just sent you one too
field of snow....how r ya? :)
Oregongirl.....i don't know why it's full again?
i'll go check........

[desmom]

Originally posted by Oregongal


Your box is full soy!
:eek: [/*]

Yeppers!

When emptying your pms, do not forget to empty your sent items. You can access your sent items, by clicking on the little drop down box on the right side of your screen.

Thank you.

They could have resigned for many reasons.....did not agree with the church's teachings, a problem in the children's program, a new tithing assessment by the church, didn't like the minister....

jmo

[field of snow]

Originally posted by soyesterday


yep i just sent you one too
field of snow....how r ya? :)
Oregongirl.....i don't know why it's full again?
i'll go check........ [/*]

I'm swell thank you! I've been trying to PM you too.

I need to go thaw some :chicken: for dinner. I'll be back in about 10 min

[ThruTheTrees]

Originally posted by mxma30


The fact that CF is saying it was a silver RAZR is interesting to me. I had a razr in the past, had the best battery life of any phone I have ever had.. and with how popular that phone is, its surprising nobody had a charger there. the plug on the razr is a miniature USB port that is the same size that almost all digital cameras and mp3 players use, in fact they can be charged with one of these cords if the other end is plugged into a computer's usb port. [/*]

And a techie like him (and the people he works with) would know that.

The phone being dead (and him telling people) just does not add up. It is one of the main things (besides the lack of ANY evidence of foul play) that makes me think strongly that he left on his own accord.

But man, where the heck is the guy?! :shrug:

[Hubbard]

Originally posted by Beth


I don't either. I was just curious. [/*]

I could see that you were not advocating that they were asked to resign.

I appreciate your approach.

[Oregongal]

Originally posted by soyesterday


yep i just sent you one too
field of snow....how r ya? :)
Oregongirl.....i don't know why it's full again?
i'll go check........ [/*]

Ok, sent ya one.

[soyesterday]

Originally posted by Oregongal


Ok, sent ya one. [/*]

K
it's completely empty now
um yeah lol....
i forgot AGAIN to delete my sent messages lol

[need2no]

Originally posted by ThruTheTrees


Actually it was his personal cell phone according to Christine (but he got a discount through work). The cell phone pre-warning has always seemed to me to be more than coincidental. Unless Christine comes out and says "Nicholas often didn't have his cell phone charged up -- this certainly wasn't the first time" -- but I remember she has been quoted as saying that he would always call her even if he was 15 minutes late in traffic. So it seems like he was setting the stage for something by that. [/*]

I agree. It seems if this was the 'norm', that is forgetting to charge his cell phone, this would have come out during her TV interviews. Something like CF saying..Nicholas has a bad habit of forgetting to charge his phone as he did this day. I know my hubby keeps complaining about his phone not holding a charge for very long, and I keep telling him to go get a new battery or a new phone...but he doesn't listen.

I don't believe CF has ever said SHE was aware of his battery being dead that day, she just said his battery was dead as confirmed by co-workers.

[need2no]

Originally posted by soyesterday


K
it's completely empty now
um yeah lol....
i forgot AGAIN to delete my sent messages lol [/*]


Delete your message tracking while you are at it. I tried to respond to your PM, but couldn't. :)

[Hubbard]

Originally posted by field of snow


He could have resigned from the church thinking that was enough to put away whatever internal issues he was having and slowly realized over the next day that "screw this! It's not enough..I gotta get away."

:shrug:

I am just saying this from personal experience, but i've started out the day normal and had the "Screw this!" thought come from my subconscious as the culmination of little and big things finally getting at me. Unfortunately, i've done this with a job where I couldn't absolutely bear to deal with telling anyone. And yes, I know people who have done this with their marriage, too.

IMO, this is especially true if you're the type who has been known to be all happy and smiles. You try to keep it up for the benefit of others and suddenly it's too much. It's easier for people who can be outwardly grumpy every now and then. They don't have the need to put on a fake smile to keep things status quo. [/*]

If he did just walk away, I say he did have that "screw this" moment. However that would be a BIG "screw this" moment and probably did accumulate over weeks or months. There were quite a few changes in his life recently that could have caused pressure that he felt he could no longer deal with. I hope this is what happened for Nicholas' life sake.

If this is the case, I hope that he contacts his family soon.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by need2no


I agree. It seems if this was the 'norm', that is forgetting to charge his cell phone, this would have come out during her TV interviews. Something like CF saying..Nicholas has a bad habit of forgetting to charge his phone as he did this day. I know my hubby keeps complaining about his phone not holding a charge for very long, and I keep telling him to go get a new battery or a new phone...but he doesn't listen.

I don't believe CF has ever said SHE was aware of his battery being dead that day, she just said his battery was dead as confirmed by co-workers. [/*]

This is from her fact sheet
His cell phone battery was dead all day, confirmed by co-workers

[soyesterday]

Originally posted by need2no



Delete your message tracking while you are at it. I tried to respond to your PM, but couldn't. :) [/*]

ok lol what the heck is message tracking?
going to look
oregon....can u send your pm again?
i might have erased it by accident :(
i never got to see it!

[desmom]

Originally posted by ThruTheTrees


And a techie like him (and the people he works with) would know that.

The phone being dead (and him telling people) just does not add up. It is one of the main things (besides the lack of ANY evidence of foul play) that makes me think strongly that he left on his own accord.

But man, where the heck is the guy?! :shrug: [/*]

ITA 3Ts!

[need2no]

Originally posted by desmom


~snipped~

They could have resigned for many reasons.....did not agree with the church's teachings, a problem in the children's program, a new tithing assessment by the church, didn't like the minister....

jmo [/*]

I agree, and I think the primary reason it is even being discussed on the board (s) is because it happened 2 days before Nicholas went missing. A coincidence?????

I've said this before..but if I were planning on walking away from everything and everybody, why would I even bother to resign from a church I never planned to attend again anyway...what would be the point. Would you even think of doing this, or care, and why. Makes no sense to me.

Either he didn't walk
Didn't plan to walk until after he resigned
Was sending a message and the church situation is somehow related to his disappearance
He was so pizzed at something going on in the church he felt he had to resign before walking away

I just don't know what to think...........

[need2no]

Originally posted by desmom


~snipped~

They could have resigned for many reasons.....did not agree with the church's teachings, a problem in the children's program, a new tithing assessment by the church, didn't like the minister....

jmo [/*]

I agree, and I think the primary reason it is even being discussed on the board (s) is because it happened 2 days before Nicholas went missing. A coincidence?????

I've said this before..but if I were planning on walking away from everything and everybody, why would I even bother to resign from a church I never planned to attend again anyway...what would be the point. Would you even think of doing this, or care, and why. Makes no sense to me.

Either he didn't walk
Didn't plan to walk until after he resigned
Was sending a message and the church situation is somehow related to his disappearance
He was so pizzed at something going on in the church he felt he had to resign before walking away

I just don't know what to think...........

[esbee]

Originally posted by field of snow


He could have resigned from the church thinking that was enough to put away whatever internal issues he was having and slowly realized over the next day that "screw this! It's not enough..I gotta get away."

:shrug:

I am just saying this from personal experience, but i've started out the day normal and had the "Screw this!" thought come from my subconscious as the culmination of little and big things finally getting at me. Unfortunately, i've done this with a job where I couldn't absolutely bear to deal with telling anyone. And yes, I know people who have done this with their marriage, too.

IMO, this is especially true if you're the type who has been known to be all happy and smiles. You try to keep it up for the benefit of others and suddenly it's too much. It's easier for people who can be outwardly grumpy every now and then. They don't have the need to put on a fake smile to keep things status quo. [/*]

this, to me, seems more possible than any other theory out there. i can't help but continue to keep coming back to nick voluntarily leaving. IMO

[figritout]

Originally posted by desmom
If you click on "User CP" at the top of this page, it will take you to a new page with a tab called "Edit Ignore List". This tab will take you to a page with several blank boxes where you can enter another member's name. You must enter the member's name exactly and click on the Update List button. You will be able to see they have posted, but not be able to read their post without clicking on the "to view this post, click here". It is a real handy tool when you find yourself being baited by another poster.

IMO, they resigned from the church. I read several blogs and comment sections to blogs about the church urging their members to pray for NF's family, to assist in searches, to help with practical needs, provided information to the Fund that was set up at an area bank..........

I don't think the church would do all of the above if they had been dismissed from the church.

imo, jmo, moo [/*]

Wow I had no idea you could do that. Know it wasn't meant for me but thanks!

[ThruTheTrees]

Originally posted by field of snow


It certainly would make it more difficult to just pop up now and say "Oh, i'm sorry. My bad. I had a temporary-few-years-late-quarterlifecrisis-slash-seven year itch. Let's get counseling and go back to normal."

If that is what happened. [/*]

I think about this too. Under what circumstances can he -- would he -- be able to return now? If he left due to extreme stress or depression or simply wasn't "in his right mind" for a time, and now sees all that is happening, and all that Christine is saying, it may just stress or depress him even more.

If there were some mental health issues like depression that sparked him to leave, then his actions can't be expected to be "rational" or "reasonable" to others. All this "he would never" and "he's not a coward" and "these kids won't have a daddy" -- those words of such neediness are not saying to him (IMO), "I love you Nicholas and if something's wrong, I'll be there for you. How can I help?"

[isitme]

So I'm caught up now, but still out of the loop.

My view about the by-laws is that they appear to me to be quite harsh and I too would run for the nearest exit if that was presented to me. But it has a large membership so if they are comfortable with it who am I to question it. As for the Fransico family resigning, I am still undicided whether it plays a part or not in his disappearance. At this point I amleaning toward the possibility it that whatever personal reason caused them to resign may be the a reason for NF to leave. But my belief is that it is a personal matter rather than a polical matter of the church itself.

[Hubbard]

Originally posted by need2no


I agree, and I think the primary reason it is even being discussed on the board (s) is because it happened 2 days before Nicholas went missing. A coincidence?????

I've said this before..but if I were planning on walking away from everything and everybody, why would I even bother to resign from a church I never planned to attend again anyway...what would be the point. Would you even think of doing this, or care, and why. Makes no sense to me.

Either he didn't walk
Didn't plan to walk until after he resigned
Was sending a message and the church situation is somehow related to his disappearance
He was so pizzed at something going on in the church he felt he had to resign before walking away

I just don't know what to think........... [/*]

As far as why resign from a church you never planned to attend again, I think just for the reason that you don't plan to attend that church anymore. Obviously the mechanism to resign is there for that purpose. I can see your point if they were casual attenders that never joined the church in a formal way.

I see your point, either he did not plan on walking away or Christine wanted them to resign IMO.

[need2no]

Originally posted by Beth


While I agree that there has been no evidence of a forced resignation, I suppose another possibility would be if perhaps either or both knew in advance perhaps one was impending? Maybe I wouldn't want to wait for them and I'd beat them to it. Kind of like "you can't fire me, I quit".

Just thinking of other possibilties and not suggesting this is the way it happened at all. Especially (as someone else pointed out) because if this was a premeditated leave, I doubt NF would have gone through the formality of actually resigning.

At this point, I'm just trying to think of any/all possible scenarios and of course, these are just my own opinions. [/*]

Exactly, and to add to your "you can't fire me I quit" theory perhaps the church told him he was being disciplined for something they did not approve of and based on the way the by-laws read the next step would be to get the agreement of 2 elders in order to dismiss NF and family. So...NF says screw this I resign, and walked away, nothing formal, just walked away and he and CF consider themselves to have resigned from the church, (as I would in their shoes.)

Could also be NF heard a rumor about pending discipline and got the jump on the church by resigning before they were dismissed and the info was made public to church members.

[ThruTheTrees]

Originally posted by need2no


I agree, and I think the primary reason it is even being discussed on the board (s) is because it happened 2 days before Nicholas went missing. A coincidence?????

I've said this before..but if I were planning on walking away from everything and everybody, why would I even bother to resign from a church I never planned to attend again anyway...what would be the point. Would you even think of doing this, or care, and why. Makes no sense to me.

Either he didn't walk
Didn't plan to walk until after he resigned
Was sending a message and the church situation is somehow related to his disappearance
He was so pizzed at something going on in the church he felt he had to resign before walking away

I just don't know what to think........... [/*]

Also, it has been pointed out that if he knew he was going to be leaving Christine, that keeping their connection to the church would be a decent thing to do so she would at least have the support of a community they had been part of for a few years. Then again, maybe it was her idea to leave. And also I think I read somewhere that they believe if a man leaves his wife, it's somehow the woman's fault?

Or maybe she even pushed the idea of leaving the church and he didn't really want to, and maybe he was kind of dejected about that. I mean he was very involved with that church for several years.

The church connection seems like more than just a coincidence. But then so does the other missing guy, and other things that have been mentioned.

[Hubbard]

Originally posted by Beth


While I agree that there has been no evidence of a forced resignation, I suppose another possibility would be if perhaps either or both knew in advance perhaps one was impending? Maybe I wouldn't want to wait for them and I'd beat them to it. Kind of like "you can't fire me, I quit".

Just thinking of other possibilties and not suggesting this is the way it happened at all. Especially (as someone else pointed out) because if this was a premeditated leave, I doubt NF would have gone through the formality of actually resigning.

At this point, I'm just trying to think of any/all possible scenarios and of course, these are just my own opinions. [/*]

I also think they would not resign due to marital issues. Instead I think they would want the support of the church during there attempt to reconcile. Christine gives no evidence that there are any unreconcilable differences in their marriage.

If he planned to walk away, I do not see a plausible reason to resign unless it was at the urging of Christine for other reasons.

Again, I appreciate your approach.

[Oregongal]

Originally posted by ThruTheTrees


I think about this too. Under what circumstances can he -- would he -- be able to return now? If he left due to extreme stress or depression or simply wasn't "in his right mind" for a time, and now sees all that is happening, and all that Christine is saying, it may just stress or depress him even more.

If there were some mental health issues like depression that sparked him to leave, then his actions can't be expected to be "rational" or "reasonable" to others. All this "he would never" and "he's not a coward" and "these kids won't have a daddy" -- those words of such neediness are not saying to him (IMO), "I love you Nicholas and if something's wrong, I'll be there for you. How can I help?" [/*]

I so totally agree TTT,
And now he's in a place of, OMG what do I do now?
It could be that he went to a bar instead going home that night, slept in his car, then in the morning, woke up to the news that he was missing. If he was under enough stress, that may have added a humongus amount to it. And as someone said above, he just said screw it, I can't even go for a few drinks without her (CF) reporting me missing.
JMO

[desmom]

Didn't I read his family are devout Catholics?

What if this is a church CF wanted to attend and NF agreed to try it out and decided he did not like MH or their teachings? It might explain why she was so defensive as to it is no one's business why they resigned.

jmo

[Hubbard]

Originally posted by ThruTheTrees


I think about this too. Under what circumstances can he -- would he -- be able to return now? If he left due to extreme stress or depression or simply wasn't "in his right mind" for a time, and now sees all that is happening, and all that Christine is saying, it may just stress or depress him even more.

If there were some mental health issues like depression that sparked him to leave, then his actions can't be expected to be "rational" or "reasonable" to others. All this "he would never" and "he's not a coward" and "these kids won't have a daddy" -- those words of such neediness are not saying to him (IMO), "I love you Nicholas and if something's wrong, I'll be there for you. How can I help?" [/*]

I don't know. I do kind of see her support of him in her phrases while reminding him that he is needed. I do not recall her saying "I love you" but I do see support of him.

I do agree with your assesment about the actions of a person who is experiencing depression.

[need2no]

Originally posted by ThruTheTrees


I think about this too. Under what circumstances can he -- would he -- be able to return now? If he left due to extreme stress or depression or simply wasn't "in his right mind" for a time, and now sees all that is happening, and all that Christine is saying, it may just stress or depress him even more.

If there were some mental health issues like depression that sparked him to leave, then his actions can't be expected to be "rational" or "reasonable" to others. All this "he would never" and "he's not a coward" and "these kids won't have a daddy" -- those words of such neediness are not saying to him (IMO), "I love you Nicholas and if something's wrong, I'll be there for you. How can I help?" [/*]

Great points TTT.

Wasn't it stated the Etsy group arranged the TV interviews with Nancy and Greta? Once this was arranged CF could hardly say no, how would that look. If so, this leads me to the thought that neither CF or NF would have ever dreamed his disappearance would attract so much attention, or for so long. If the Etsy group had not been so "helpful" with making this national most of us would never have heard about this case like the hundreds of other missing people out there that don't get national attention, and sometimes not even a mention in the corner of a newspaper...especially a case where nothing leads to foul play.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by Oregongal


I so totally agree TTT,
And now he's in a place of, OMG what do I do now?
It could be that he went to a bar instead going home that night, slept in his car, then in the morning, woke up to the news that he was missing. If he was under enough stress, that may have added a humongus amount to it. And as someone said above, he just said screw it, I can't even go for a few drinks without her (CF) reporting me missing.
JMO [/*]

Does anyone know if he usually ate lunch at his desk or if he ran errands, walked to a near park bench to eat a sandwich, whatever?

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by need2no


Great points TTT.

Wasn't it stated the Etsy group arranged the TV interviews with Nancy and Greta? Once this was arranged CF could hardly say no, how would that look. If so, this leads me to the thought that neither CF or NF would have ever dreamed his disappearance would attract so much attention, or for so long. If the Etsy group had not been so "helpful" with making this national most of us would never have heard about this case like the hundreds of other missing people out there that don't get national attention, and sometimes not even a mention in the corner of a newspaper...especially a case where nothing leads to foul play. [/*]

Without going back through all those threads again (please don't make me lol), I believe you are correct. Several were calling local stations, and emailing Nancy and Greta. Once it was posted he was missing, it took off like wildfire.

[figritout]

Originally posted by soyesterday
*sigh*
here we go again....
guys.....
to everyone i sent pm's to last night.....
remember what we talked about k???? :)
and i think we should go through w/ it....
i liked your suggestions..
pm me if you're up for it k???? [/*]

Hey sent you a pm..

[Hubbard]

Originally posted by need2no


Exactly, and to add to your "you can't fire me I quit" theory perhaps the church told him he was being disciplined for something they did not approve of and based on the way the by-laws read the next step would be to get the agreement of 2 elders in order to dismiss NF and family. So...NF says screw this I resign, and walked away, nothing formal, just walked away and he and CF consider themselves to have resigned from the church, (as I would in their shoes.)

Could also be NF heard a rumor about pending discipline and got the jump on the church by resigning before they were dismissed and the info was made public to church members. [/*]

I do see that as possible, but there is no indication from the church that such a situation existed. They do seem to be very supportive of the family. I just can't make the connection between a church that would threaten to dismiss a family with a church that seems to be giving such support.

If your though is true, that is a remarkable church IMO that holds to their convictions, while loving those they seek to discipline.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by ThruTheTrees


I think about this too. Under what circumstances can he -- would he -- be able to return now? If he left due to extreme stress or depression or simply wasn't "in his right mind" for a time, and now sees all that is happening, and all that Christine is saying, it may just stress or depress him even more.

If there were some mental health issues like depression that sparked him to leave, then his actions can't be expected to be "rational" or "reasonable" to others. All this "he would never" and "he's not a coward" and "these kids won't have a daddy" -- those words of such neediness are not saying to him (IMO), "I love you Nicholas and if something's wrong, I'll be there for you. How can I help?" [/*]

Maybe she could put that on her MySpace - JUST in the event he is able to look at it and doesn't know how to get back - he could look at her picture and see words like that. It could give him the strength he needs. IMO

[Oregongal]

My last post...I say this because years ago, it happened with my ex. There were alot of stressers in his/our life, we were getting along, no huge fight or anything and he was a call everyday and call if he was going to be late guy too.
One night he didn't. Yes, I panicked, yes I was skeered, but, I certainly report him missing to the police. For one thing I've always been led to believe that they won't do anything for a certain amount of time anyway and another I just had that hope that a wife has that he was going to come home.
He called from work late morning and he was fine, sorry, hungover, but fine. Got flowers that evening.
In thinking about him and that, I could very well see that with how he was feeling and how stressed he was, he would have become unglued if I had reported him missing.
Just saying, it's possible.
MOO

[mxma30]

Originally posted by Beth


And that alone would be enough to make a lot of people resign. [/*]

This could be, but that always makes it obvious that at that point he wasnt planning to walk away from his life.. because you cant disipline someone that you cant find

[need2no]

Originally posted by Beth


And that alone would be enough to make a lot of people resign. [/*]

I would certainly think so. Who wants to wait around to be humiliated in front of the congregation if there is a way to afford it, like resigning first.


And as far as the efforts the church is currently making to support the family...they almost have to in order to try and avoid rumors, hopefully appear not to have had a bearing on NF's decision to walk, to be politically correct, to save face and boost reputation in the community. I don't think the fact that they are being supportive negates the possibility the church was involved in some way in NF's decision to hit the road and not look back, as some here seem to think.

Perception is often not reality.

[need2no]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


Without going back through all those threads again (please don't make me lol), I believe you are correct. Several were calling local stations, and emailing Nancy and Greta. Once it was posted he was missing, it took off like wildfire. [/*]

and has continued to spread like a wildfire.

[mxma30]

Originally posted by MissyJayne


My experience with churches, christians etc. says love the sinner, not the sin. Perhaps they may have offered counseling for the family and rather than risk whatever the problem was that caused them to leave, to be exposed they just left. Doesnt mean the church asked them to leave, maybe the church doesnt know the real reason they left. Where did you get the knowledge they were to be disiplined?

:read: [/*]

That was suggested by another poster. Point I believe they are making is that this church is being supportive in helping and searching for answers in his disapearance.. and with that being said, it does not appear that there was any impending disiplinary actions by the church

[KKKKKKatie]

Originally posted by Hubbard


I do see that as possible, but there is no indication from the church that such a situation existed. They do seem to be very supportive of the family. I just can't make the connection between a church that would threaten to dismiss a family with a church that seems to be giving such support.

If your though is true, that is a remarkable church IMO that holds to their convictions, while loving those they seek to discipline. [/*]

Unless the dismissal was because of something HE did. Then they would still be supportive of CF

[SeattleEddie]

Originally posted by need2no


I agree, and I think the primary reason it is even being discussed on the board (s) is because it happened 2 days before Nicholas went missing. A coincidence?????
....snip.....

Either he didn't walk
Didn't plan to walk until after he resigned
Was sending a message and the church situation is somehow related to his disappearance
[/*]

My theory on the resignation...MOO....is that he wanted to leave the church because they encourage and promote fertility and propagation. I don't know if they disapprove of birth control, but they do approve strongly of having as many children as possible.

I see it as a continuum: first he got word of the pregnancy, which, perhaps MOO, did not make him happy. The wife, perhaps and MOO, pointed to the church teachings. He decided to leave the church because it did not conform to his life experiences and the pressure some men feel to support their families.

That would be the beginning of a wholesale re-evaluation of one's life and purpose, etc etc etc. All this strictly MOO and IMO of course.

[PerneciaJane]

Originally posted by MissyJayne


My experience with churches, christians etc. says love the sinner, not the sin. Perhaps they may have offered counseling for the family and rather than risk whatever the problem was that caused them to leave, to be exposed they just left. Doesnt mean the church asked them to leave, maybe the church doesnt know the real reason they left. Where did you get the knowledge they were to be disiplined?

:read: [/*]

I am confused here. I thought earlier about 4 or 5 pages ago, someone knows a Church friend. And was told the Francisco's resigned from the Church because the Pastor they liked left the Church for another and NF and CF resigned to follow him.

Did anyone else read that or did I see that on a different message board? Sorry but I seem to be totally confused.

[Hubbard]

Originally posted by need2no


I would certainly think so. Who wants to wait around to be humiliated in front of the congregation if there is a way to afford it, like resigning first.


And as far as the efforts the church is currently making to support the family...they almost have to in order to try and avoid rumors, hopefully appear not to have had a bearing on NF's decision to walk, to be politically correct, to save face and boost reputation in the community. I don't think the fact that they are being supportive negates the possibility the church was involved in some way in NF's decision to hit the road and not look back, as some here seem to think.

Perception is often not reality. [/*]

I agree that the church is "expected" to show some support of the family. It seems that they are support beyond a token nod.

I don't think there is anything negative to read into the church's support. If Nicholas is running to avoid the consequences of actions, and there is nothing to substaniate that, then he would run eventually anyway IMO.

One's perception is one's reality. Perception is not always truth.

[need2no]

Originally posted by KKKKKKatie


Unless the dismissal was because of something HE did. Then they would still be supportive of CF [/*]


Thank-you!

And the church should/would support the family regardless of what did or didn't happen simply because this is what Christians do, AND how would it look to the community if they abandoned and ignored the family at a horrific time like this.
The churches support is not necessarily honorable, that's debatable in my opinion.

[Hubbard]

Originally posted by MissyJayne


My experience with churches, christians etc. says love the sinner, not the sin. Perhaps they may have offered counseling for the family and rather than risk whatever the problem was that caused them to leave, to be exposed they just left. Doesnt mean the church asked them to leave, maybe the church doesnt know the real reason they left. Where did you get the knowledge they were to be disiplined?

:read: [/*]

I did not state that they were disciplined. I did state that if the church did seek to discipline someone and give them this much support, I find it a remarkable church. Thank you for allowing me to clarify.

[need2no]

Originally posted by PerneciaJane


I am confused here. I thought earlier about 4 or 5 pages ago, someone knows a Church friend. And was told the Francisco's resigned from the Church because the Pastor they liked left the Church for another and NF and CF resigned to follow him.

Did anyone else read that or did I see that on a different message board? Sorry but I seem to be totally confused. [/*]

It was on this board. Something about someone reading somewhere that this was possibly the reason CF/NF resigned..due to a couple of pastors leaving. From reading the web site about the by-laws, it seems the pastors were dismissed from the church.

[Hubbard]

Originally posted by SeattleEddie


My theory on the resignation...MOO....is that he wanted to leave the church because they encourage and promote fertility and propagation. I don't know if they disapprove of birth control, but they do approve strongly of having as many children as possible.

I see it as a continuum: first he got word of the pregnancy, which, perhaps MOO, did not make him happy. The wife, perhaps and MOO, pointed to the church teachings. He decided to leave the church because it did not conform to his life experiences and the pressure some men feel to support their families.

That would be the beginning of a wholesale re-evaluation of one's life and purpose, etc etc etc. All this strictly MOO and IMO of course. [/*]

I am not sure why they would leave a church because it wants it's members to be able to have children. After all, they do have children and another on the way.

Do you think the church is putting pressure on it's members to have more children than the parents feel comfortable with?

[desmom]

Pubicis in the West posted a help wanted ad on Feb. 6, 2008 looking for "art directors, copywriters, designers and interactive creatives."

http://www.ihaveanidea.org/jobs/details/job/56/

[Hubbard]

Originally posted by KKKKKKatie


Unless the dismissal was because of something HE did. Then they would still be supportive of CF [/*]

I guess that could be, but again, we don't see any real evidence of that.

[need2no]

I've got to run for a bit...dinner and other family obligations, but I will leave you with a link to read. It's a blog with just a few posts about the church, started by a church member who has a problem with Pastor Driscoll, also interesting tid bit about his background from another poster.

I found posts #2, #3 and #7 to be somewhat interesting.




http://iidb.infidels.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=220560

[PerneciaJane]

This was from todays page 2

Originally posted by Jazmine203
I know someone that goes to the Mars Hill church. I also heard they left the church because for whatever reason the pastor they liked left the church and went to another one and they followed him. Not sure they ever made a service since all this happened during the week.. Im curious to know just what did happen that the pastor(s) left. I think there may have been more then one, not sure on that. [/*]

[Hubbard]

Originally posted by cteall
hmmmm, who looks silly here? lol

[/*]

Those who make many posts to indicate they have made a number of PMs to discuss a plan. That made me chuckle. I was waiting for someone to mention a secret handshake. Good luck to those folks with the secret club.

Thanks for making me laugh!

[SeattleEddie]

This is an excerpt from 9/13/2006 article in salon.com. See

"In a husky voice, the 35-year-old pastor prays for the continuous fertility of his congregation. "We are in a city with less children per capita than any city but San Francisco," he declares, "and we consider it our personal mission to turn that around."

"The way Driscoll sees it, the more babies his conservative Christian congregation can produce in this child-poor city, the more they can redirect local politics, public education, and culture in one of the liberal capitals of the world. To complete his trifecta of indoctrinating, voting, and breeding, Driscoll has developed a community that dwarfs any living experiment of the '60s. To say that Mars Hill is just a church is to say that Woodstock was just a concert. "

[HarlettOhara]

Originally posted by Hubbard


Beth from what I understand, and we may need to refer to the church documentation, that an affair would not be accepted by the church. This is speculation on my part based on other church procedure, but I would think that counseling would be suggested by the church. My understanding from a member of Mars Hill is that forced resignation is a last resort for someone not willing to change from the sin.

While possible they were asked to resign, I don't see any evidence of that in anything I have read. [/*]

From the bylaws....
Resignation is possible only by a member who is in good standing and who is not under any disciplinary action.

So according to this the Franciscos had to be in good standing with the church in order to resign... so evidently they had done nothing wrong.

[n/t]

need2, is Pastor Driscoll one of the Pastors who resigned. Reading the thread there were 2. Do we know which ones? And also when did they resign? Was it around the time the Franciscos did?

TIA!

[Hubbard]

Originally posted by HarlettOhara


From the bylaws....
Resignation is possible only by a member who is in good standing and who is not under any disciplinary action.

So according to this the Franciscos had to be in good standing with the church in order to resign... so evidently they had done nothing wrong. [/*]

Thanks for taking the time to look that up.

[desmom]

Originally posted by n/t
need2, is Pastor Driscoll one of the Pastors who resigned. Reading the thread there were 2. Do we know which ones? And also when did they resign? Was it around the time the Franciscos did?

TIA! [/*]

No Mark Driscoll is the head of Mars Hill.

[n/t]

Originally posted by desmom


No Mark Driscoll is the head of Mars Hill. [/*]

ok thanks. Do we know why 2 of the Pastors resigned?

[desmom]

Originally posted by need2no
I've got to run for a bit...dinner and other family obligations, but I will leave you with a link to read. It's a blog with just a few posts about the church, started by a church member who has a problem with Pastor Driscoll, also interesting tid bit about his background from another poster.

I found posts #2, #3 and #7 to be somewhat interesting.




http://iidb.infidels.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=220560 [/*]

The more I read, the more I understand why the Franciscos resigned.


jmo

[PerneciaJane]

Originally posted by n/t
need2, is Pastor Driscoll one of the Pastors who resigned. Reading the thread there were 2. Do we know which ones? And also when did they resign? Was it around the time the Franciscos did?

TIA! [/*]

No, he isn't. he is the head Pastor and the church is actually his.

[murdershewrote]

seems in an office that size, there would only be need for one art director?

[desmom]

Originally posted by n/t


ok thanks. Do we know why 2 of the Pastors resigned? [/*]

Actually the were fired.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004020898_webmarshill18m.html

http://www.zimbio.com/pastor+and+church+life/articles/94/Mark+Driscoll+Continue+Lie+Mars+Hill+Members

[ThruTheTrees]

Originally posted by cteall
I read somewhere that Mark fired two pastors, their first names only were mentioned and I can't remember. And yes, the dates seemed to coincide with the disappearance. [/*]

From what I have read, 2 pastors were fired last fall. Here is a blog post that gives one person's account of the situation:

http://prayingheart.wordpress.com/2008/03/01/mark-driscoll-continues-to-lie-to-mars-hill-members/#more-66

[Shimz]

Originally posted by mxma30


The fact that CF is saying it was a silver RAZR is interesting to me. I had a razr in the past, had the best battery life of any phone I have ever had.. and with how popular that phone is, its surprising nobody had a charger there. the plug on the razr is a miniature USB port that is the same size that almost all digital cameras and mp3 players use, in fact they can be charged with one of these cords if the other end is plugged into a computer's usb port. [/*]

--still catching up-- but saw this and i just wanted to say I also used to have a RAZR and I used to go for DAYS without having to charge my phone. The battery life was amazing, up until the day I got rid of it (year and a half later)... Unless of course, I was using the phone A LOT, then the battery would die faster.

Another thing, I always kept an extra charger at work and everyone knew, and would ask me to borrow it from time to time, being as the charger fit so many different phones.

[KKKKKKatie]

Originally posted by desmom


The more I read, the more I understand why the Franciscos resigned.


jmo [/*]

ITA!

[SeattleEddie]

The firings were six months ago. There was a lot of press and upheaval then, and it has mostly died down now. I would think that if they were leaving due to the firings, they would have done it months ago when most everyone else who objected did.

[KKKKKKatie]

Originally posted by SeattleEddie
The firings were six months ago. There was a lot of press and upheaval then, and it has mostly died down now. I would think that if they were leaving due to the firings, they would have done it months ago when most everyone else who objected did. [/*]

Any word there that either of these men are starting their own Church?

[moonlessnite]

In what I can find, someone must be missing for a minimum of 24 hours before considered missing. Is this the case?
Wasn't NF reported after being 3 hours late? expected at 7PM, reported at 10PM?


Originally posted by Oregongal
My last post...I say this because years ago, it happened with my ex. There were alot of stressers in his/our life, we were getting along, no huge fight or anything and he was a call everyday and call if he was going to be late guy too.
One night he didn't. Yes, I panicked, yes I was skeered, but, I certainly report him missing to the police. For one thing I've always been led to believe that they won't do anything for a certain amount of time anyway and another I just had that hope that a wife has that he was going to come home.
He called from work late morning and he was fine, sorry, hungover, but fine. Got flowers that evening.
In thinking about him and that, I could very well see that with how he was feeling and how stressed he was, he would have become unglued if I had reported him missing.
Just saying, it's possible.
MOO [/*]

[PerneciaJane]

Originally posted by SeattleEddie
The firings were six months ago. There was a lot of press and upheaval then, and it has mostly died down now. I would think that if they were leaving due to the firings, they would have done it months ago when most everyone else who objected did. [/*]

The article was Sunday, November 18, 2007 so would have been three months when NF went missing.

[desmom]

Originally posted by moonlessnite
In what I can find, someone must be missing for a minimum of 24 hours before considered missing. Is this the case?
Wasn't NF reported after being 3 hours late? expected at 7PM, reported at 10PM?


[/*]

You do not have to wait 24 hours....

http://www.atg.wa.gov/pressrelease.aspx?&id=4010

[AMS]

More on the fired pastors. Check out Driscoll's quote in the 4th paragraph.

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=441300

Hmmm...

AMS

[moonlessnite]

Wasn't it stated the Etsy group arranged the TV interviews with Nancy and Greta? Once this was arranged CF could hardly say no, how would that look. If so, this leads me to the thought that neither CF or NF would have ever dreamed his disappearance would attract so much attention, or for so long. If the Etsy group had not been so "helpful" with making this national most of us would never have heard about this case like the hundreds of other missing people out there that don't get national attention, and sometimes not even a mention in the corner of a newspaper...especially a case where nothing leads to foul play. [/*]Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


Without going back through all those threads again (please don't make me lol), I believe you are correct. Several were calling local stations, and emailing Nancy and Greta. Once it was posted he was missing, it took off like wildfire. [/*]

I'm not sure I follow this. The plead for help to find NF was so emphatic and strong that it didn't seem like something it was being done because others arranged it. If it was, I would think it would have been a less emotional interview.

[Oregongal]

Originally posted by moonlessnite
In what I can find, someone must be missing for a minimum of 24 hours before considered missing. Is this the case?
Wasn't NF reported after being 3 hours late? expected at 7PM, reported at 10PM?


[/*]

That's what I thought too moon and yes he was 3 hours late.
That is something that I saw from the beginning, was the speed at which she reported and got police involved.
:shrug:

[PerneciaJane]

Originally posted by PerneciaJane


The article was Sunday, November 18, 2007 so would have been three months when NF went missing. [/*]

I'm sorry I was wrong they were fired September but if you read the comments on this page you can see it is still not settled.


http://prayingheart.wordpress.com/2008/03/01/mark-driscoll-continues-to-lie-to-mars-hill-members/#more-66

[desmom]

Originally posted by moonlessnite


I'm not sure I follow this. The plead for help to find NF was so emphatic and strong that it didn't seem like something it was being done because others arranged it. If it was, I would think it would have been a less emotional interview. [/*]

IIRC, members sent emails to the Nancy Grace Show and Greta Van Susteren's show about Nicholas.

I have seen this before in missing persons cases.

jmo

[n/t]

Originally posted by moonlessnite
In what I can find, someone must be missing for a minimum of 24 hours before considered missing. Is this the case?
Wasn't NF reported after being 3 hours late? expected at 7PM, reported at 10PM?


[/*]

According to Christine on Greta's show she called the police at 10 pm. Not sure how quickly the searches were done? I'll have to go back and look at the links.

Thanks to all for the church information. Interesting and again very much coincidental that 2 days before Nicholas went missing they resigned. Still unsure if there is a connection.

[SeattleEddie]

The article was Sunday, November 18, 2007 so would have been three months when NF went missing.

I think the firings were actually in September.

About whether the fired members started their own churches? I will call a friend in the church and ask him, as he is/was friendly with both those men. I probably won't have the answer until tomorrow though.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by moonlessnite


I'm not sure I follow this. The plead for help to find NF was so emphatic and strong that it didn't seem like something it was being done because others arranged it. If it was, I would think it would have been a less emotional interview. [/*]

Now I don't follow you lol. The strangers didn't do the interviews, but I believe they are the ones who contacted various news affiliates trying to help. IIRC

[Oregongal]

Originally posted by desmom


You do not have to wait 24 hours....

http://www.atg.wa.gov/pressrelease.aspx?&id=4010 [/*]

Thanks for this link desmom,
interesting and answers my question. Do you think that varys from state to state. I was in Calif. and this is a Wash. state site.
I guess we should all be aware of how it applies in our state if it does vary.
:)

[KKKKKKatie]

Originally posted by SeattleEddie


I think the firings were actually in September.

About whether the fired members started their own churches? I will call a friend in the church and ask him, as he is/was friendly with both those men. I probably won't have the answer until tomorrow though. [/*]

Thank you SE! Would be interesting to see if N & CF were still in contact with them.

[n/t]

Originally posted by Oregongal


That's what I thought too moon and yes he was 3 hours late.
That is something that I saw from the beginning, was the speed at which she reported and got police involved.
:shrug: [/*]

I don't see anything wrong with that. Maybe because I'm very much of a worrier. I probably would've called the police by that time if he hadn't showed up.

The only thing I question is whether or not she called family or friends before calling the police. I would assume she did but considering nobody was out there (or not that we're aware of)looking for him that same night, I wonder.

[moonlessnite]

what I mean is, I thought it was suggested that maybe CF was kind of "put upon" to do the interviews - not her idea. I was just thinking if that had been the case, the interviews might have been more downplayed, if it wasn't something that anyone really wanted going national.

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


Now I don't follow you lol. The strangers didn't do the interviews, but I believe they are the ones who contacted various news affiliates trying to help. IIRC [/*]

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by MissyJayne


I read it to mean maybe CF did the interview under pressure from the people that arranged the interview. It wasnt her idea but she did it because it looked bad if she didnt.

Kinda like a child that says I'm sorry for something but only becaues they were prompted to do so? [/*]

If it was interpreted that way, its wrong - that was not my intent.

[KKKKKKatie]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


If it was interpreted that way, its wrong - that was not my intent. [/*]

I think MJ was explaining moonlesses post to you that you did not understand :shrug:

[moonlessnite]

Wow, desmom - I got answers to what I've been wondering! Thanks!
"The booklet also points out that being a missing person is not a crime, and once the person is located, police cannot divulge information about them without the person’s consent."
http://www.atg.wa.gov/pressrelease.aspx?&id=4010


Originally posted by desmom


You do not have to wait 24 hours....

http://www.atg.wa.gov/pressrelease.aspx?&id=4010 [/*]

[KKKKKKatie]

Originally posted by moonlessnite
Wow, desmom - I got answers to what I've been wondering! Thanks!
"The booklet also points out that being a missing person is not a crime, and once the person is located, police cannot divulge information about them without the person’s consent."
http://www.atg.wa.gov/pressrelease.aspx?&id=4010


[/*]

maybe that should be plastered all over for NF to see

[AMS]

Originally posted by SeattleEddie


I think the firings were actually in September.

About whether the fired members started their own churches? I will call a friend in the church and ask him, as he is/was friendly with both those men. I probably won't have the answer until tomorrow though. [/*]


Seems like the church saga dragged on thru February.

http://prayingheart.wordpress.com/2008/03/01/mark-driscoll-continues-to-lie-to-mars-hill-members/

AMS

[desmom]

Originally posted by Oregongal


Thanks for this link desmom,
interesting and answers my question. Do you think that varys from state to state. I was in Calif. and this is a Wash. state site.
I guess we should all be aware of how it applies in our state if it does vary.
:) [/*]

http://www.riponpd.org/Patrol/riponmp.htm you do not have to wait 24 hours in CA either.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by KKKKKKatie


I think MJ was explaining moonlesses post to you that you did not understand :shrug: [/*]

and I wanted to clarify that was wrong - not what I meant with my post.

[moonlessnite]

oh, I did misunderstand. what did you mean?

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


If it was interpreted that way, its wrong - that was not my intent. [/*]

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by MissyJayne


LOL that is a problem sometimes with message boards, you cant "hear" the tone of the post like you can with voice LOL

Glad it was cleared up! [/*]

true and I darn sure didn't want to derail this train again lol

[KKKKKKatie]

Originally posted by RainyNiteNTx


and I wanted to clarify that was wrong - not what I meant with my post. [/*]

sorry....I misunderstood

[moonlessnite]

yah, would that apply to the wife as well - not divulging his whereabouts? I assume so???

maybe he does know this fact and he is already located. and we will never know:)

Originally posted by KKKKKKatie


maybe that should be plastered all over for NF to see [/*]

[KKKKKKatie]

Originally posted by AMS



Seems like the church saga dragged on thru February.

http://prayingheart.wordpress.com/2008/03/01/mark-driscoll-continues-to-lie-to-mars-hill-members/

AMS [/*]

wow...seems so

[n/t]

Originally posted by moonlessnite
Wow, desmom - I got answers to what I've been wondering! Thanks!
"The booklet also points out that being a missing person is not a crime, and once the person is located, police cannot divulge information about them without the person’s consent."
http://www.atg.wa.gov/pressrelease.aspx?&id=4010


[/*]

I wonder what happens if children are involved though. He has 2 kids to support. Would that still apply?

[KKKKKKatie]

Originally posted by moonlessnite
yah, would that apply to the wife as well - not divulging his whereabouts? I assume so???

maybe he does know this fact and he is already located. and we will never know:)

[/*]

it would seem to me that if there were police led searches...someone would have to pay for the time?? I don't know?

[RainyNiteNTx]

Originally posted by moonlessnite
oh, I did misunderstand. what did you mean?

[/*]

I was responding to a couple of posters on the other page about how this media attention snowballed so quickly.

[KKKKKKatie]

Originally posted by n/t


I wonder what happens if children are involved though. He has 2 kids to support. Would that still apply? [/*]

good questions :shrug:

I sure would like to know what he searched on his computer

[huskiki]

n/t, I sent you a pm.

[wondering?]

Originally posted by ThruTheTrees


And a techie like him (and the people he works with) would know that.

The phone being dead (and him telling people) just does not add up. It is one of the main things (besides the lack of ANY evidence of foul play) that makes me think strongly that he left on his own accord.

But man, where the heck is the guy?! :shrug: [/*]

Is it possible the phone was really "dead"!
I had one that just would not charge anymore, was really "dead".
Tried to buy a new battery for it and could not get one that would work for that phone.
Had to upgrade and buy a new cell phone.

Anyone else ever had this problem?

Yes, where the heck is Nicholas?

[Oregongal]

Originally posted by moonlessnite
Wow, desmom - I got answers to what I've been wondering! Thanks!
"The booklet also points out that being a missing person is not a crime, and once the person is located, police cannot divulge information about them without the person’s consent."
http://www.atg.wa.gov/pressrelease.aspx?&id=4010


[/*]

And that answers the question we had last night, would LE tell CF if they found NF and he didn't want her to know.
Now I'm wondering if maybe that is the reason they 'scaled back' the investigation? LE maybe know something that they can't tell CF.
That would be horrible for her. :(

[KKKKKKatie]

Originally posted by Oregongal


And that answers the question we had last night, would LE tell CF if they found NF and he didn't want her to know.
Now I'm wondering if maybe that is the reason they 'scaled back' the investigation? LE maybe know something that they can't tell CF.
That would be horrible for her. :( [/*]

it sure would. I wouldn't wish that on anyone

[desmom]

Originally posted by moonlessnite
yah, would that apply to the wife as well - not divulging his whereabouts? I assume so???

maybe he does know this fact and he is already located. and we will never know:)

[/*]

IMO, if he had been found and requested his whereabouts not be revealed, LE would announce the investigation is closed and AMW would take his picture off their website.

jmo